##VIDEO ID:WBOuGZpqomA## one of those [Music] too all right my apologies everyone out there we're starting late little confused s the best alrighty let's get this to on the road then all right my glasses on all right as a preliminary matter this um this is I'm Jane Moran chair of the uh upper Charles Trail committee and uh permit me to confirm that all members and persons anticipated on the agenda are present and can hear me when I call your name please respond present if you are here Eric Sonet no Bob Snider he said that he would not be able um Eli is not here Jim cillo here Ken Parker here Jamie here Scott here Tim here okay and Jane is present as well Al righty so this is the open meeting of the upper Charles Trail committee is being conducted remotely pursuant to chapter 22 of the acts of 2022 for this meeting the Upp Charles Trail is convening via Zoom as posted on the town's website identifying how the public may join and it is also being broadcast by hcam please note that during this meeting it is being recorded and that some attendees are participating bya video conference so if you're out there and you want to say something just wave hi hi Marion just is an addendum to that it is not going out over ham because of technal glch that's why on Google thank you so that there be a okay so we being might be able to post someplace in the future okay so we're being recorded via Google I guess meeting what's that you're breaking up a little bit Mary Allen oh she's Frozen you froz talk before Frozen Mary Ellen okay um well we're not going live on no so having said all that we'll turn to the first meeting the first item on the agenda which is public comments do we does anyone from the audience have anything that they want to say make a comment about or otherwise make yourself known I don't see anyone here who's M Matt Matt Matt oh Matt from oh okay thank you thank youum in to tell us great okay so um did everyone get a chance to look at the minutes from 5:15 which is our last meeting and so this is our draft if you have any yeah it's not um or oh not other I was on the oh okay reminds me turn off mine too whether you're looking it's always hard to capture everything when you're doing minutes but um we I think we got the most of it yeah I looked at it I thought you got using my recording it looks yeah it's the recording is very helpful all right so my my only comment was there was no mention of open comments I don't remember what they were but there was a discussion before the meeting with a couple people Peter and I think someone else had wait in but I don't before the meeting no you know when we opened up to the open comments um but I don't I don't remember what those I don't recall um so we may need to refer to the I can go back summize it go back and look yeah but other than that the rest of the minutes seem seem fine to me not getting submitted anyway I think you think Peter was the only one or amend to refer to the recording perhaps on on the website because a dialogue and I'm not sure if you want to capture all the dialogue but just reference well I think what's the deal we can't we can't spend these in anywhere can we not until we vote on them well I know that but I mean I thought that um I thought we couldn't because we're waiting for the select boards no we've been handing in the we've been handing in I knew that was gonna happen we've been let just see something I can't talk right now I'll call you back um we have been handing in the minutes after every meeting after they've been voted and approved when did we meet we met on the 15th May 15th was our last meeting oh I don't know if we need to go I think maybe we could just um well but if we could do it if we could amend it now it' be bad let's see if there's anything here you can see if you can find send it the [Music] first okay 15 is that what we're trying what are we trying to answer he's trying to play the um meeting well I have it here but I have the transcript oh okay so I'm looking to see okay got it but unfortunately it only says speaker one to right up front when I was just cruising through that gym but I'll look through it again yeah okay so can we approve them um with the con the you know contingent on just adding a a summary statement of what the open comment was or something sure I can find them I mean just a summary like one sentence is fine open com was discussed about XYZ okay anyone else oh public comment I mean public comment I know we'll do anything else on the minutes okay I'll take care of that all right um I don't think we have to do a roll call because all of our members are here so we can just you did yeah I know I did but I I didn't have to if everyone is present we had someone on video If there's no other comments I'll make a motion that we accept the draff we approve the draft minutes to be corrected with information from the public comment period I'll second that last time okay you mean that you would um put that together okay okay so and then we can move on to this ad a vot take a vote of you got a motion to approve motion a second oh yeah motion and second um all in favor signify by raising your hand or saying I I okay thank you do you the opposed have to yes one of gonna have to and I think it's both because we don't have a quum without you Jamie Jamie's an i Jamie's an i and Tim would be an i if he was allow okay thank you everybody all right so now let's go move on to the next the suggested changes now the the the red notations were taken from the minutes as we approved them from the previous meetings this doesn't what I had okay written well that's why here okay yeah so which where do you want to start Jam um I guess right at the top right but we were trying to take out anything that says Boris Selman and change it to select board thank you so the very top um there's two versions so it's the one that says um select board correct not well no that was the first one that is in the header it is Board of Select because that was where the charge was adopted in 2017 not the SEL was the board of Select both headers of the same I'm just wondering which document how do we differentiate about that struck that like that whole par what we did Chang yeah from the version that Scott presented so I'm just really confused because this doesn't reflect the what we did uh that we spent you know an hour and a half what's what's what do you look yet these are my handwritten notes from the from the main meeting this was from Scott revision no what what we all voted on we talked through we made edits to the Baseline Red Line Redline document was that was the one that's that Scott has sent us all and then we talked through it and similar to this is there anything in particular but like so yeah so this whole paragraph was taken out but on this it's here so what I did was um it was this that was proposed to take it out and she wrote St and wrote a check mark next to it so I'm confused it just it doesn't look like it lines up with what Happ that's what I noticed as well there leftover stuff that should have been taken out so that strike the entire third paragraph the committee shall also a bunch of changes to the second paragraph that didn't make it and so I'm just after okay wait hold on so we don't need have friends of the trail well we already talked about it Jim we all voted stke it and that's why I put an X I notice the same thing okay so above it so let's start if if you don't mind yeah if I can propose so you made edits to the document should we should go top the bottom yeah okay so the first notable is to remove the paragraph that starts in the committee shall well there were also some things that were but that's the first edit is to remove that whole paragraph or no no in this paragraph there the second paragraph that okay all right start at the top yeah yeah start top pursuing to the powers of yada yada y the committee is so that's got to be changed Board of select's got to be select board up there yeah well it's in red on this one on the top though yeah right I got that one but not in the header because it was the board of selectman okay right was 201 actively engaging Town residents with feedback we got that in there we changed um this one has got to be select Bo the committee is charged with recommending for select words consideration a develop a proposed roots not development plan proposed Roots like that was something that we talked about in May and everyone said yeah that makes sense and it's here as a development plan which is the previous one that was crossed out to say proposed Roots I think we got Roots someplace else we got down but talk about it here I agree I agree so strike a development plan or development plan strike that and replace it with roots yep root for the upper Y for the upper Tri hton from the yeah plural remember this is a root not segments no that that's a different term discussed in May yes don't worry I'm not I'm not adding anything no no I'm just saying is it really plal because yeah yeah because well I think it says later yeah but I think is a practical matter I I'm convinced when you're looking at the whole 35 M segments may be different no eight miles whatever it be if that would be a route but then we have path we gon call we spent a lot of time this to go back on it seems really silly I was and still what's next after that so strike development plan replac with proposed to us in the second line second paragraph what do you got next well you know my was my kid's first day of school today so I've I've been a little busy so you know they say this is really I get that and then again Board of Selectmen right y i good all these Proby right like is there maybe a different version or this it just seems like naate Community preservation X funds that's the same and then we took out this this is so after route location we had had a period this associate infrastructure subject to that like I just oh no okay it wasn't there that was a cleric cuz it because you had it this one you try to apply the changes to the wrong document yeah that's that's what I'm wondering if how many things do you have no let's just go through this because then just I started looking at it this evening because it's like I said it's the first day of school today yeah so this was here and then here the committee shall not like prioritize identifying and applying for available not and receive any right applying for available state federal or private grants which may become and then we we spent a long time talking about this so instead of may become available we said may be awarded like that was yeah so so Jame excuse me Jamie so I think what happened was the original edits you made Jame to the other document were made as that paragraph as you're saying it is in the other version and then when you changed um some stuff got lost and then so you changed it to an older version but didn't change it on so it's in the version that Jane did before this the first version and we just make a couple tweaks to that we might be better off y where's the where's the right one or like where's the do you know where the location of or it was in the email of the 23rd before the edits made the version before this one 23rd right but it's there on that one that you're referring to um okay I don't have anything including uh prioritize identify and apply for available I don't think I have the I don't have the one that I only have this one looks like this did you ever see that one that was sent out the first round way about three weeks ago yeah I've made some changes oh Scott has it yes so if you look Scott the red the red line there the red paragraph that includes all the stuff jam and an email on the 23rd that has yeah no it's all on there you're on it so was Jamie it was sent at 11:08 am on the 23rd okay but then this one still has the committee shall also enged talking about um the committee May request navate for advocate the committee shall prioritize identifying and applying is that where you are yeah I'm trying to find where you are yeah down here it's the second shall prioritize identifying and applying for available state federal or private we uh like how do we make this and it has to get revised it just has to get redone we've done it so many times well it's just got to get typed up so that it's right prioritize identify and apply for apply for so you do have this know maybe which may be awarded 23rd but you can't apply for things that are going to be so we literally had this conversation I just like yes but can I just point out something yeah I just I'm looking at this now I see all the changes that we talked about they're right here but we we had changed you know the second paragraph uh last couple uh apply for available state federal or private grants which may be awarded for the accomplishment of its we're applying for grants that are available not awarded because we're not awarded yet we wouldn't apply if they aren't available it's it's grammatically incorrect it would be available not awarded it's not grammatically incorrect sure it is well CPC Awards but we have to apply for them first yeah you don't get the award until after you apply same for the state the federal you have to apply for you get you award until you apply so to say that is that is which which are available the grant programs that are available will apply for it says apply for available state federal or private grants that's what it says available that's what it says now no no that's what the update is that's the edit okay this because it has may be awarded and that's what Jamie was saying yeah no but if you go further up on that sentence it says the committee will prioritize identify and apply for available oh so available is up so they start being available you I see okay for may be awarded and it may accomplish our mission hopefully okay I got I got I was Ling that that available I'll keep track of it [Music] anys so for in is there a Poss should I just edit this document in Google Docs that says uctc charge suggested changes 824 electronically would that okay better than doing it by P this is getting real frustrating yeah please Jam save us from okay so you're gonna you're gonna revise these draft charge she's going to do it as we go along oh excuse me could you put in the header the current date after yeah put ahead with revised on next date or the 28th today yeah okay just right today today you are here what about tomorrow's but then tomorrow it'll be todayy okay so wait so I'm gonna say I really want to do s yeah okay I'll go in suggesting okay what you doing Google meet H what you doing in Google meet or Google yeah okay I'm just matching up with this and this what's in here I think is what's largely not in here but these here not except there's some things like the 51 C3 I thought we got rid of too yeah where well yeah we got rid of that whole paragraph Jam yeah so there's Cooper coer that's okay so then this paragraph it's not our charge you don't have to excluding Jim so so here if there's anything that's not in here but it looks like everything is in here everything but we added the last one yep yep yeah yeah change this good So Jamie you still making the changes to purpose yes okay when you're done with that we'll maybe PA exactly the ones that we that we did last time he know yeah he oh he's right okay that's what it was oh I see taking out that the committee paragraph taking that out and then down to the upper Tri Trail shall be a multi-use and active and passive recreational path for all abilities and then you talked about the up right instead of so a recreational path and then it says available to and accommodating all abilities correct something to that effect well that's exactly the wrong of all abilities that was add as a separate thing it doesn't have to have advice though right that's what we discussed last time yeah yeah and it's also in here right and so we spent a lot of time talking about this last time but we struck that will incorporate the Hopkinson Center Trail right we did I I was out voted on that I don't agree but I I think that the majority voted to keep that in yeah to be honest um huh me and you you and I didn't yeah not a fan okay so it wasn't majority but disagree sticking with it don't State we us any Trail build weild we put Improvement CPC I know that was already built and and then here the routes and development plan shall outline the community's vision for the creation of the instead of path we said Trail and produce recommendations for the board's consideration that align with the aspirations of the [Music] community the development plan shall also outline and then here we have something that oh yeah cost to construct main the trail as well as potential funding sources such as can you say that again a little slower projected costs y to construct and maintain the trail asell trail as well as potential funding sources such as federal state and local funding opportunities to assist with the construction and maintenance of the trail okay and then so here this is there's two Jane can you see this so there there's two different Oh no you're not dialed in right yeah I'm not um the last one was an added bullet they're the same well but so we need to strike some like you know what I mean like we don't want to have two versions that's what I tried to do in this this shorter version here I'm just da by so the red seems to be closer to be okay the red seem so I'm GNA highlight this and strike it and so now I'm see what we're doing Jim yeah there's this and this are repetitive so getting rid of the repetitive version yeah but I'm not looking at that one because it's just suers but no that's it's it's fine so you're back to looking at the one with all the red paragraphs not the original version one that Jane sent this is the one that Jane sent Jane's first round of changes shouldn't have be wor that's okay carry out I'll see the one okay just want to make sure you're I think you're talking about this one here no longer the last bullet yes the original corre original paragraphs are still there corations to accomplish it purpose accomplish the mission to build the trail in its entirety so it's okay making progress here and then here we have again we have two versions of committee procedure okay um so there's one that's in Black that says the committee shall elect a chair and vice chair annually the committee shall comply with requirements of oml and public records law and the that's the original yeah that's the simple two two sentences that was it all the rest in red is what we added and then I think we strike the the black font and keep the red font because the open meeting law also is yeah but that's not a that whole thing is not a chain that whole paragraph's not completely well but it was it was retyped by someone in red in this doc yeah retype that all he's saying is this is not the same as this but anyway yeah because we expanded on Mee but I I don't end all the committee meetings shall provide an opportunity public to speak that's new yeah this is is the original yeah the red does read correct my recollection so that should be well I'm looking at this one which we had it there but change composition from 9 s [Music] MERS um and this this says 9 to seven but I see eight no five six one does need from conom okay yeah this doesn't have the I'm seeing five members at large yeah who are we missing here okay this is another one where okay and that's on that one so it should be six this is it accurate that this in Black should all be because subtract wherever it is so all of this is yeah and then here that's not correct voted to have alternate amending members no I think we were pry listen to recording no I listen to record I went back to listen to recording on that a question about that have Alterna I actually suggested originally to strike them and you guys talked me into keeping them we voted so so so a seven member committee plus my memory two alterist no including two I thought no you can't do that have five seven fulltime members two being from um Conservation Commission and one from the rails Coordination Committee and the five remaining are at large so does anybody else have a better memory than me then well I guess more importantly do we want to stick with that where we add we want to discuss it again alternate members I remember person I don't see any point in having Al Eric's comment is what swayed me away from my original recommendation to take them away honestly which was it's a training ground away it's a training ground remember Eric talked about it we talked about it and I thought wer on board with keeping it what's that so is hcam so is hcam what training if you want to watch the the meetings Matt Matt's gonna become the next member yeah mat you still there um Jamie said how do you feel about striking the turn the alternate said I do remember the discussion I remember the results we should go back to the tape on that or I mean if because Eric's not here yeah um we could do it why don't we just do it again how do people feel I like to get rid of them I don't see any point in having alternate alternate members conf it may be a training ground but it's also frustrating because like these guys are here listen I I I on my my original first attempt is to get the discussion going yeah I struck the alternate members so you're not you're I you're not selling me on that I'm just saying it's if we can't put a quum together with seven full members then we got other things right and are there any other boards are any other committees in town that have alternate members not that I'm a I think the historic commission that the one has an ultimate member could I'm not I think we have an alterate member we should I believe we're coming full time we can welcome anybody that's sort of the question got seven members no I know there's a fair number of members yeah so I would I I would say that I don't think we need them okay so let's go around the table you don't think I don't think we need them I think it's we Ken we need them either however I I I would say maybe we should encourage people who want to be members to sit with us as opposed to yeah in The Boondocks or something like I don't know I think we yeah we're we've always welcomed everybody right y some people have refused to come up to the table alterate members that's up to them yeah Tim how do you feel about alterat find some value in being an official member that even though I can't vote gets to listen and absorb and I feel responsible for showing up as opposed to somebody who's just being a guest like in the audience and being allowed in you don't you always say like oh we let audience but like I get to like when we're not voting I do get to say my piece it goes around so there is some value to that and Eric was pretty convincing to me also last time when he said you know it's a really good training ground and that okay it does test your metal a little bit because I do have to make it to these meetings and I don't always feel like it's the best use of my time but I wouldn't want to find that out after I've been appointed a member and so being that alternate member is giving me some experience but and I definitely don't like to redo votes in the next meeting just because the the people changed I'm a little scared about that which is short of yeah no I know but right right well well one alternate gets to vote here alternates voting on whether we we alternates can vote but you know it's a it's a little Deja Vu because I remember you said something similar after ir and started swiy because I think there is benefit of of an expanded voice at the table that other comment you said right but obviously I'm not being a very good member if I don't remember you go back the same go back with it was you're saying we you went back and looked and it was revoted to did I think we should go back to the tape I tried to listen to it while I was multitasking the worst case if you if you do that if you leave it in then the next meeting when we actually go to try to approve this again we'll have more members and we can yeah well Jamie's going through that I'll see if I can find it in the in the print out so okay I the transcripts available on the website said hcam recording is available for that meeting on the website H um on hcam yes on YouTube see yeah I'll go I'll back it's a long one and hard to find youim I'll warn you're like you're in the toward the end I think well no not necessar three quarter is the way in about yeah um but yeah so I think that maybe we just leave that as an an open item I like Jim's idea just leaving the alternate members in or out and we could just well that would change that change the composition and from would be seven f plus two alternates the alternates would not be voed members right because that's silly you might as well make them full members of they voting so You' have two alternate no non- voting members appointed by the select board where are they coming from select it's either that were us right select board so we would have to add to that vote to not have them um we voted to not have them vote yeah right that would be silly to have alterate members voting just might as well just make them full members but do they vote when when there's not a quorum but that's not a quum right not a there's one missing for what like if a full member doesn't show up over and over again I think that's my if we were to keep alternates I feel like if a full member doesn't show up and alternate does the alternate should get to vote yeah I believe there's something like five absences or something like that in a row or some rule I don't remember the exact rule like any meeting like if if an alternate is showing up I don't show up you want an alternate to be able to vote for me well we don't proxy no matter what the Quorum is some committees absolutely not I mean that like that's if there's an alternate isn't that in theory no in theory it is an alternate votes when there's not a quorum not they vote when there's one person out I do remember this guy yeah but think it's silly to just so that means that even if we had aicare you guys and you wouldn't be able to vote as alternates you would vote because Bob's not here and you would vote because Eli's not here even though we already had a quum no it's only in the case of this that's what you're saying right yes that is what I'm saying oh I think that's silly come on I've been here for again make it nine full members Jamie has probably the best well they ranking in the highest attendance but no I think that's not even on the I don't think I don't think we're looking to edit the document to include it so maybe we can move on May keep it in for now so are we keeping the um okay I'm in the composition yeah the committee shall have seven full members who are Hopkinson resent are we putting in the and two alternates no that's item down below who are Hoppington residents and appointed by the select board preference shall be given to ensure that at least one member of uctc has civil engineering expertise one member has con Information Technology it's not information yeah why I don't I didn't get that when I read that again isn't that a public relations thing what I I don't know the whole information communication no that's a typo it should be information technology or technology and then experience in information I mean people call information technology it or I would say just call it technology again it's preference it's not mandatory right and then what there were two equal candidates and one had a lot of experience with technology and websites and things like that and we have that need the membership can recommend to the select board the SLI board can show preferential but right marke is a little bit different than marketing for us right yeah yeah it's just guidance it's after the it line communication and marketing experience and to and go on to and to leaon mbers is that what you recommend I I would say you could strike the marketing okay I think Communications is not a bad message to send yeah but the verbiage thing and communication and communication skills plural it's an occupation or or gu yeah because that's one of the big things that we're criticized for I don't agree with it but yeah so it would be information insert technology yeah comma or or then it would be Andor well that's it yeah it could be Andor or comma yeah Andor Communications so the capital c because we're talking about a vocation correct or skill set or experience liaison members are the conservation and the TMC tcmc that's the leison Sor yeah we're not we're not Communications Capital C with an S I don't see why it's just Capital C see it the Capital you know it should be capitalized okay make it consistent it often is that's for sure I capitalized engineering every time I write it I only write it when it's a title depends on whether it's a noun title or verb it's a profession but it's not are we oh yeah but this is just wait a minute Jamie wants to say something if it's it and are we taking out and or marketing experience yes okay following your logic I want civil engineering capitalized I don't because I don't think it's appropriate to capitalize it that's U people all right I think I'm at the do you want me to read back the composition paragraph thank you yes the committee shall have seven full members who are hopkington residents and appointed by the select board all members Shall Serve at the pleasure of the select board preference shall be given to ensure that at least I mean if well whatever um at least one member of the uctc has civil engineering expertise one member has experience in Information Technology Andor Communications and two lison members one from the Conservation Commission and one from the tcmc good got it all right the two alternate members is already in the first line right that is not there not that's not there in this yeah that's not in this version that okay that are we leaving that out we well we had it below the membership should be as follow sh be as follows at the bottom of that we had two alternate member non voting members yeah in parentheses non- voting or something like that struck that yeah so membership as follows a design recommended by concom a design recommended by the TRS coordination and management committee five members at large which I fixed because it said three um length of term full members shall be appointed by the select board for staggered threeyear terms and then this says alternate member shall be appointed by the select board for stard three-year term so that should be crossed out that's coming out yeah length of term members shall be appointed by the select board for staggered three-year terms oh oh I see what happened that was the thing where there were two paragraphs is the same thing okay um select board reporting this is an ad this is a complete new okay I'm G to set this off cap and fix that the uctc shall be responsible for providing a semiannual report to the select board no less than semiannually and be apprised of a forward-looking objective it's not a good sentence no it's really not I would strike no less than semiannually to start um well the second after the word SEL board it says it again semi anually report semiannually um oh yeah does you're responsible for providing a semiannual report to the select board right comprised of a forward-looking objective decisions made which doesn't have to be capitalized oh I guess got a weird sentence it's a really weird something yeah forward looking objective I think they could be commas yeah and no capitals I don't know treasure come on now there's a real title that's actually that is an appointment yeah that could be capitalized decisions could be capitalized be capitalized too treasur report forward looking objectives perceived risks and challenge es and any spec okay do you want me to read it again please select board reporting the uctc shall be responsible for providing a semiannual report to the select board and be comprised of a forward-looking objective decisions made in the prior half year treasurer's report perceived risks and challenges and any specific request of the select board period sure oh cters that's all one sentence yeah and decisions is part of that same sentence yeah it is all one sentence it's a long sentence but you know we can make a list list but I think it would take up a lot of I can I make one small suggested change decisions made since the prior report since since the prior report the prior instead of Prior half year in case it ends up being whatever I don't know you never know what scheduling or something but decisions made since the prior report yeah comma true okay so there's the basically the comprised thing has got one two three four five section six sections ches okay so long as we agree they parallel I yeah just that's oh um there's five items yes they all all those things need to be included in the semi report okay yep but you if there's obviously no request from select board then you don't put that in there or you put in that there were no requests from the select board the charge so same except there's a couple of ads were these things struck um from the paper copy that I had from may leison members need not be current members of the committee or commission recommending them as Leons they simply need to be committed to bidirectional communication with periodic updates via agenda discussions or other means to their respective committee and our commission we want that in there that was there in May so I'm just reading off the paper copy from May I don't remember I don't remember that what I don't remember what the decision was I don't think we had much discussion on it I don't recall I feel like where was that where do you see that it's not in either of the versions you have the paper copy and I didn't have any notes that we struck it or not it's St it if we don't feel that it's adding anything you read it again to see y liaison members need not be current members of the committee or commission recommending them as Liaisons period they simply need to be committed to bidirectional communication with demonstrated periodic updates via agenda discussions or other means to their respective committee and or commission I think I remember me I remember discussing it that first sentence people disagreed with the first sentence you know they that they they should be they should be members that's what people said because it's not up to us to decide who concom sends us con I'm not aison from concom I'm a I'm a design from concom I'm a full member of this not Aon that I might be well we're calling your role we have a select board liaison that's Leon does get the vot get back to what I was trying to say is it's up to concom to pick who they want and it it doesn't have to be a member of concom concom can pick somebody else so for the but it's up to them yeah so I think that's why we took it out to us through the chair so I agree I recall the conversation what I would suggest to the group is we strike the first sentence even though I believe in it but we voted that's for the purposes of not having to rehat any discussions strike the first sentence and just say Liaisons will be responsible for the following like just to make sure that the Leon are responsible to know that their role is for bidirectional communication that's all that's fine only one problem we don't have we on defined anywhere we do we called them uh members make it oh design yeah maybe we should just change the verb I mean the noun must be committed or are committed will be committed yeah so the so there the the uh the are we calling them Town committee designes what do you want to call them Town committee what well right here that's just two conservation and the tcmc well you know you could insert after the Conservation Commission you could put HDC and paren and that way you can just refer to it as HTC and tcmc okay so yeah so then you could say the tcmc and UHC commission design HTC right U responsible for two-way communication what you're saying to where do you want that so do you want that in this strike the first sentence yeah and then design will be committed to bidirectional communication with demonstrated periodic Kim suggest to be more specific which I like saying the HCC HCC and tcmc members right will be responsible for B directional communication HC and tcnc designes designes yeah okay by by what by what kind of communication by Direction Way by Dire two way well we do that I do that I don't know any other designes here then you know what you're doing a great job thank you I appreciate that coming for you that means a lot but I go to concom and tell them what we're doing good but now I guess I have to if we get a new member from as the need they need to know what the responsibility okay cool all right I'll go with that now we're down to the charge and these are Duty we really didn't do much except we added to the second bullet was the an active member of you CC shall also be voted by UCC majority to serve as a voting member of tcmc was that did we which we didn't cross it out because not really not our responsibility yeah that's really up is tcmc revised in their charge I just didn't take any yeah tcmc is revised in their charge Jamie oh do you know who knows that nobody knows that I don't believe they are well I'm wondering if they put in their new charge they have a before the select board yet I think they're going to so we don't know if they're going to have a no directional a bidirectional full member I love that bidirectional you kids with your new words thanks for calling me a kid um so I think you's right I don't think we really changed many of these last bullet points I don't recall added to the second bullet point we did so the first bullet point was changed instead of guide creation we had guide design of recommended tra and the create like okay do oh yeah yeah recommended true sort of tying it back to the first paragraph yeah okay recommended Trail and the creation of a development plan for the upper Charles Trail ensure that the development plan reflects the community's aspirations including okay should we just say persons with disabilities we need to suggest someone physical but I no I don't like that at all because there's a lot of right yeah okay that's a really strange I don't know where that came from but there was I don't know I don't know what's what's the proper I don't think it's grammatically correct either yeah so so let's change so I'll I'll ensure that the development plan reflects the community's aspirations I'm taking out what's there here we had we had including ibility for all users of the path where was that that's up Ear okay I think it's very important okay it doesn't really go with that sentence commun aspirations including Community aspirations think okay but who's is it the community including the persons or the development plan bless you it's not the community at all it's their aspirations the qualifi the on on the aspirations it's included in the developmental plans that's where you have to develop it the plan it's not something that's tacked on later because frequently accessibility is thought of by communities as something that gets added later like oh let's put a ramp and hopkington is better than that we don't need to think about other members of our community as other right they be part of the conver yeah I get that but I'm asking is the persons including persons with physical disabilities an aspiration or not putting that at all jie take language from the there's neurodiversity there's things are not physical is that yeah yeah diverse it's a real thing is it like a what used to be called mental health or something no oh okay it's a different way that the brain worked huh I think I got neur divorce you might a lot of people are undiagnosed you figured that out years ago right I too I think try to take care just okay so you're going to include the verbage from before including in sensibility for all users of the pth yes absolutely and you're right Jamie we there's a time when we didn't think Collective we not including myself didn't think of that stuff and and it's a new way of thinking about it and I think it's you know we have the commission disability we'd be able to that said pcmc doesn't consider that though I don't think that's true oh not on topic oh it is okay are we up to number three oh I oh so three was not change I had no edits before is that ACC yeah we okay we got a select board though yep so I fixed I already did a find and repl SEL to instead of doing it individually um and then we had previously said outline and present three upper Charles Trail route options yeah and there was a discussion to make it two or three yeah some are already made we can't change no but that's the number so I want to make sure I'm updating the document accurately uh we say like if possible if feasible if feasible well I mean what happens if there are there are no two or three select board's GNA we do any feasible one okay yeah all right and Jim I'm demonstrating that I'm balanced here because I'm the one that pushed for three Eric requested two and the compromise was two or three I'm reminding people that's it's two or three oh okay two and a half um we're gonna need to readmit Mariel and she couldn't hear okay how do we do that not here that's still on the call it appears so add people request to come back when she pops up here okay how we I'll keep an eye to admit Mt can't speak maybe she to go to another meeting muting Mar no she sent me a message that said did did the thing crash oh okay so we are on bullet point five correct five uh create a development plan for the upper chel trail that serves as an invaluable outside resource to the board and the town throughout the development process should that be select board okay gather input from as many Hopkinson residents as possible by reaching out to the community through a townwide community visioning workshop and by conducting focus groups and surveys that good sure identify federal state and local grant funding opportunities okay there's an an there um federal state and local grant funding opportunities right is it it's not local Grant and funding opportunities those are the funding opportunities oh other ones other funding opportunities yes well that's what I'm wondering because the the structure state and local grants for example or there might be some so I'm going to take out the previous and you going take out the word Grant no federal state and local grants is one thing okay comma and comma funding opportunities available to both okay I don't know I don't know what a non-governmental entity that is that we're going to promote get money for but because we no longer have the friends of the trail so what non-governmental entity are we GNA maybe some business is going to move into South Street and want to sponsor a trade leave the door open that's possible okay I don't know who they are but they could be here any day okay assist in the construction and maintenance of the upper Charles Trail number eight work collabortive nonprofit Mee to encourage C participation in the use and um should we say resident instead of Citizen uh I would prefer resident well are people who are not citizens allowed to use it are people who are not citizens allowed to walk on the trail it's open to everybody it's a resident have to be a resent yeah right that's resident really as opposed to Citizens is a general thing that's true that's true actually citizens I'm residing here for the moment I don't get the desire for having any and of the multiuse though it's just plain maintenance of yeah right yeah I think that's the of the that's the original original version language I took out in and in the use and maintenance of the multi-use path the use and maintenance of the multi-use path done nine conduct public education and Outreach on the development development plan process and 10 guide construction of the upper Charles Trail by working with the is this where we should say select board not just board I think so select board Town staff and other board committees on design permitting funding and construction yes and it's structurally correct if you put a c after that end at the end of Nine the semi C was starting it you near end at the end I mean you need a comma because treating like a list yeah but you need a comma after the end if you want to do it so correctly okay excuse me so there's one one thing after meeting this and Jamie thank you for facilitating that that went pretty smoothly um there's no reference in the 10 bullet points to our interaction with the tcmc we have a member but is there any collaboration with them the T MC member that's has to be by directional so there's our interaction there's our interaction right that's the and as I'm just raising it I think it would be helpful to put um to make it more um explicit that we're collaborating but we're not collaborating we should that's we going to collaborate about those trails are completely different understood but they need to be aware of them they need to weigh in because if they're creating a trail that's going to conflict you think that's reality and rules but what's that are you going to put everybody we should um sorry we need to work with the rec department we need to work with the no I know to work with you want to list everyone in the school one one of we need to collaborate with everybody not only the the the the residents at town meeting but you know tcmc and others have expressed interest and you met with the select board and they found a desire to have you and the tcmc shair get together I'm just suggesting that being more explicit I think it that's the way that it is but I think putting it in here would not be a good idea so now if tcmc puts similar language in theirs then we might include in ours but I'm assuming they're gon tcmc would like to no I understand I understand but there's doubtful they would put that in say so collaborate with us and there's really not to me it's two separate things except that tcmc takes over whatever becomes the upper Charles Trail yeah they're going maintenance and so forth right it's going to be turned over to them do need well so in that put a lot of pressure on the design to make sure the hey we didn't have it before but now look where we're sitting now we didn't have collaboration with any other Trails committee and look where we sit we sit because are we being recorded yes Absolut are we sat we sitting here because the trails coordination management committee made a uh I'm not going to try to characterize that thank you but we're sitting here because of something that some other people did not because of a lack of collaboration you know what I mean I'm absolutely opposed to put any collaboration with right now it actually item 10 says working with the board Town staff and other that's right we can not exclude anybody well that's why I said it on number 10 maybe explicit other other board well to Scott tcmc point I think we would have to L we could I don't want to be like I would not say such as or for example it would leave it the way I I am saying a little bit that we need to collaborate with everybody or lots of people fine with it we do spe if you were gonna say we need to coll we want to collaborate with specifically the TM the other tcmc that's some suggesting because there's two in this town right but what what do you want to collaborate yeah the trails they're not doing commit but they're not doing the same thing we're not doing this understood understood understood so but like for instance when we're but the paving companies collaborate with Town Main right so we mentioned in here that we need to make recommendations on the maintenance of the trail and stuff that seems to me that we need to do that in collaboration correct and at that time we would pull them in so if you were going to make any reference to them that's where I would make the reference coming around well no it's the same thing if we were going to take the trail through part of a um one of or the town park or Recreation we would have to collaborate with the parks and but that's explicit we already have the Conservation Commission explicitly stated here to as a member that design we also have we also have it referenced earlier on we have a design of the tcmc who's bidirectional so I'm using that all the time honey are you on your way home or are you bir directional sorry Scott have fun I didn't make the word up um if you're going to use it a lot I wish I had uh patented it or whatever you're doing the or something it's in the public domain yeah too bad um all right well I said my piece so so we' beaten this into the ground the whole thing for quite a bit thank you James for doing that my feeling would be just leave it as other boards and committees and then we obviously take comment from whoever it is right and not specify if you specify one specify them all and you get in trouble for trying to include everything you can think of and not including somebody else and we've already got say yeah I agree historic um Miss so we done so I think that's it now jimie do you want to send that to me and then I'll send it out to everybody shared it I shared the live document with only the people in this room okay um but I can share the edit like the line edit version and the clean version to Jean so that she can send it to everyone so when are we going to we don't have to get together again to on that can we do elic I want to talk about though if we're done move on something screwing around this thing do you want me to save it as a Word document just in case e CH long as I don't have the poke ins Google place in order to find it un happy look i' search I emails or anything else then to if everyone is comfortable with this I think we went over word by word y so we're we're good with that now you want to vote on it should you look at it first what on this document with the final draft that we did went over it word by word okay so the next thing we should discuss is the select board would like to hear from us they put a tentative date on their agenda on upcoming events for September e it's the 17th or the 19th 17th 1 so um we'll I can do a summary of the somebody can do a summary of um the changes of the we we're suggesting well this document um I'm sure they're going to want to know you know maybe what what is it that you think that we should advise them about besides this this is the only thing they asked for we give them anything else to give [Music] them what we are where we are what's holding us up um I may yeah Madam chair it if we need to remind them of anything that we've submitted 10 years ago when they suspended us um that is what we've accomplished or that kind of thing that maybe we would submit that to refresh the member we have couple new members couple new uh select people um that may not be aware of what was discussed previously and that won't you know go look at the minutes so should we take whatever we submitted from before and resubmit it we had testimony well we had the annual town meeting that yeah no I mean from the select board we met after annual time meeting we met with the select board yeah we did right and um that brought them off to speed or was our defense you want me to do a little brief history or not you think what about funding what about having we have outstanding funding no we don't I I would recommend my s a forward looking approach but not a backward looking approach in that instead of saying here was this big fight that happen right saying here's where we are right now here's where we suggest the charge be step that that the Board needs to do yeah okay what about like this is what we think the board's gonna look at next and just leave it at that and like I don't thinks anymore because they Dawn so still talked about it in comments that's so what I would add to that maybe is we have money outstanding we have an outstanding award from CPC or what was it 40,000 with that or we can't spend it so but I think we need to point out to the select board that we have that money it's been awarded Forma if you don't use it it could get pulled back by CPC is that the segment one yeah correct okay I guess my there was a separate award I think to a different group that was working on finding a more feasible that was tcmc and did that ever go anywhere no it didn't as a matter of fact I think we should point that out because that's kind of a hinder that's kind of a hindrance for us right what part of what brought this whole thing up was this alternate route but as far as anybody knows not the thing of been done about an alternate route so when we if let's say we're you know we're put back together we're reconstituted whatever the hell it is we can't go forward because somebody already has that money somebody was awarded CPC money was awarded ccmc to look at that development route CPC told uh the chair of tcmc that he cannot spend a penny of that money he will not get reimbursed for a penny of it unless it's for the entire thing don't come back and say Dale Co Dale Danny he has said we'll have access to this partial way to hell out here when you haven't resolved the whole the biggest issue of Gorman so unless The Advocates can get the whole thing right they can't spend anything from this is from CPC standpoint we will not let them spend any of it so anyway so back on topic or the so I think we should bring that up though where where is this Western route because other it interferes with us sure I'm not in agree it interferes with us that interferes with us well it's not it's still out there it's this is this is a matter of did we take the comments and the vote of the public to heart and if we did or didn't we should say that but if we did for those of us that did um what are we going to do to turn that around well first of all with respect to that I don't think the will the people is 300 or 3,000 people but it's in our way and by the way we we the collective we explored this so-called Western alternative we've already several people on this committee have been through talking to Residents talk to the property owners and have learned that it's not Fe I I don't think it's I don't I honestly don't think it's about that I don't what is it about I don't think I want to go there now and reat the same okay so you don't find that it's a hindrance to us to have nothing done on this thing that got everybody all worked up no well then what happens what what is it hindering why we I mean we we are somebody else has a responsibility of looking into we're on hold because of perceptions reality is perception or not of the public and if we don't address those and call those out you know then was my point the public was very specifically about one particular section there was a bunch of people that get up there and I live at that segment and I've gone on record this will be like the fifth time that if we thought that was the best alternative I'd vote for it so what the so-call Western route no the Hayden Road Route I'm saying which the town voted against but that was a separate vote the the uttc was a separate vote from the hayro vote no I understand but a lot of the I think it would be hard to make a statement that a lot of that friction in that vote at the attempted changing of the the suggest the recommended changing of our committee source of that the people who were most active in that were complaining about our ideas in a specific area where we thought we knew better and they thought they knew better and we weren't listening what a matter of knowing better it's the listening and the and and it's the the problem is is that that root cause is still just as unresolved there's still an imaginary route out there that CPC has said that they would fund the design of if someone that's not that's not segment one that's not one talking about the entire there's a hurdle out there we are eventually going to have to go back into that area like so we can avoid it by simply saying oh we're going to go look at this thing that we do actually have real funding we already did that we voted to we voted to suspend conversations about that segment on ha and BR we already decided that we would focus on other segments so it's resolved how about this approach um you know we we've come back to you with our recommendations for a um different language in our chart in our purpose for you to for your consideration and I could summarize some of the reasonings why we did some of these things and I could also say something like um we envision this upper Charles Trail as being a hybrid approach um we are going to be able to create some trails and some paths but some space that we want some properties that we would like to have presently we is not available that does not mean me that we can't uh get that property in 10 or 20 years but in the meantime we have a path forward because it is an allowable use to use existing sidewalks and Roads yes we can do that relatively inexpensively too by putting paint down the line but I don't know why we're going in front of the select board talking about that when I don't because want to hear it um I'm just being honest to avoid be helpful well like like I think Tim said it's all pass I don't think we need to Rea that's what I'm saying yeah what happened I I I no I'm just trying to present a path forward so that the select board doesn't think that we're but the path forward is what's what what's going to be different that's the question if I'm on the selectboard I would ask everyone here saying what is going what are you going to ensure is going to be different this time from last time well that presumes something wrong with the last time that's some of us believe the wasn't and some of us believe there was I'm in the camp where I think we were doing some things wrong which was what specifically you really want to get into the same debate I well all right pick from the from the following Communications proactive outre an engage don't repeat it because we'll go yeah that's what I'm saying Jim I don't think it's worth it but but I think that that um I disagree by the way I know you do that's why I said why why bar going that were two different doesn't matter we can still like I'm I got more wisdom by a day maybe but at any rate um so I I think that I agree with the recommendation to look forward but I still think we need to answer the question what's going to be different if we can't answer the question or we don't agree that we were anything was wrong we're not going to be sitting here as a group we have a more structured out I guess what I guess I think that specifically we're going to focus on what we can actually do and not on things that we can't do that's a good example more more structured Outreach focus on what's the town has stated that they're supporting right now not just that not the town you know we're working for to it's not the town that's say any preference I mean look at our audience it seems as though the things that we need to move forward to move forward is I keep going back to the enf and that's where we got bogged down they did not like the enf and we can't change it that's a and I think by helping people understand that the EMF enf is a flexible document it's not hard if you just because it's line on the map it doesn't mean that that's going to be the final route I don't think people fully understood that that is a document that goes to the wetlands Vision um the uh to look at the total amount of wetland in this total area because if you are going to build this total 35 um Eight Mile route you cannot go over a certain percentage of wetlands that's what that that's the only thing that that enf was going to do was to look at the totality of the wetlands and Route over the entire route from hopkington State all the way to mil included the right but included areas that were in high contention correct and with that which is the problem but with but the other thing you have to understand with when the dot looks at that map and they're going to say there were and there were multiple paths the pple choices and that's what they wanted they're going to suggest we don't take this path because it has too much wetland in it you can take that path and you can stay out of the wetlands over here and so they're going to do this analysis strictly with the Wetland configurations I don't know if this is a conversation that we have with the select board they're going we're going to lose them in the detail well I think we we we again I'm sorry I guess I'll say one more time and I'll shut up and I I'll propose be a journ but I think we have to just say what we're going to do differently we have to we have to acknowledge that there was feedback we have to whether we 100% in our heart of Hearts which I know some people don't agree and I don't agree with everything but um I agree with some of it but at the end of the day wherever each of us stands as a unit we have to acknowledge that we are working for the town residents and the town residents whoever came out for whatever reasons had indicated that they didn't like how we were operating how are we going to change how we're operating that's my view so can imagine a mob and and uh and voting against school funding of some sort can you imagine that ever being something that would happen I mean I think the school department has made so many mistakes in my 30 years here but I would never think of going up there and say a town meeting and voting out their funding I we failed at building a school large enough for our people for the kids you've got a school Committee Member here so well there's no reason Marathon School couldn't have twice as big as it is when we built I think it was linked to the demographers predictions to get Toba been around long enough and that the state can't predict anything I know outrageous prediction considering how many people how many bedrooms are I know we're off course here I know I know that's me off course that's me that's me so Scott how are you going to tell the selectman that this committee is going to do better different not better not gonna bring up Hayden BR thank you I was literally gonna say that not gonna bring up not bad our hearts are in the right place a lot of accomplishments trying hard I think that Jim hit on one of them we have have to have a much more structured and disciplined Outreach I didn't say that I said that just that's that I put the word discipline and that BRS structure we need to have the word uh and um honestly um and this is not anything to do with anybody because I'm very much part of this we're all part of a team locking at arms but that this discussion today meandered I think we lack focus and structure and discipline within our meetings um and I think the public views our dialogues they're viewing us now they're listening to me now but are going to formulate their opinions and the level of confidence they have in us and doing our due diligence we do all our homework we have the best recommendations of the world if our meetings Meander and we go off on tangents about school committees and trails and grants and submissions and who was doing what and why it just loses confidence so I think they lost confidence in us because we couldn't be structured and then the third thing and last thing um in terms of overarching I would say that we need to to um we need to um meet I've used this phrase in our group before meet them where they are we need to meet people where they are people with all forms of disabilities we should be engaging with them and getting them engaged and encouraging them to be alternate members or even members but that's one example running clubs walking clubs biking clubs families family groups mom's groups all that groups we need to meet them where they are for us to sit here in this busy world of intense electronics and media but in this busy world that we all have if anybody here can say that they are proactively going to run to different things and multiple things um all the time that they aren't aware of how do you do that you have to be made aware and you have to be proactively reached out to and you have to be given a reason to be engaged I would say that 95 % of this town doesn't even care about a trail between Milford uh and and Ashland and if we put that one question to vote with the town I would say we would be shot down because I don't think it's ever been voted on so we need to create excitement we have to create engagement and we have to create people to want to care about it to get it from 5% to a 45% they don't never happen to 45 % to 30% 4 and a half% you be happy I it's yeah whatever I'm just saying we have to get more engagement and we have to meet them where they are we've been we've had can't build it and they will come that's not g to work you done sorry yeah well no I just want to add we've always had open meetings we've rarely had anybody in the audience anybody any group any member of that mob that voted what they voted could have offered to become a member should have been out I've never seen anybody right have you seen anybody after that vote people get spun up I saw a couple vote and then that's where are they correct because people have they part of the 5% pay I don't think so the world in this world myself included very much has Focus issues because so much being thrown at us we have to give people a reason we gave them a negative reason to get involved we have to give them positive reasons to get involved yes and and by the way also reaching out to the various groups awesome idea but we can't be beholden to any one group we can't say because the mothers of Hopkinson want I don't know playsets along the way that we're going to give up we're the ones who are supposed to know what's required for an upper Charles Trail what's required by the state what's required by you know other any other relevant regulations if somebody wants us to put jungle gyms every three miles we what are we going to do cave and say yeah we'll do that I mean it's not required we know that no we will tell them right up front that what the purpose is and what we're doing it for and and look to get them engaged but I would venture to guess with me having young children we would want a nice comfortable place to go with low slopes and we could push strollers and right that's what I'm saying I happen to be working on the Hughes Trail which is a family Trail separate initiative my other Pet Project here and I am putting family-friendly jungle down typ I believe we're going do that no but that's different than our objectives right so that's separate so I agree with you but and we have to be upfront with people at that point when they say we'd like a jungle gym we say sorry that's not in scope for this this is not the project that's why you have groups after they're not interested because they only want a jungle gym then we've eliminated them as as a as a stakeholder right but they can do that as an add-on later on after something's built something's built right so I'm just saying we can't we'll reach out to people encourage their involvement but we're the ones that are supposed to know how to do this and what's required not some other group right we have a set of of parameters we have to stay within boundaries we have to stay within that's we're trying to engage people on within those boundaries so accomplishments we don't make that part of we just assume that this is just our revision of charge we assume that we'll continue to be two committees and this is revising our charge so we've accomplished so far we we we put out something right away to the public of this is what's been done right I think that's all lost referencing it no it's not I think it's all lost I think the folks who voted us out were focused on one thing without recognizing anything else that's ever been done including the so-called Western Ru which was exp Again Jim again right I I think it I think we just have to say what are what are we GNA what are we how how is our mindset and our the way we operate and the way we engage people going to change if we don't articulate that in a way that's convincing I don't think we exist as an entity do you want to give the presentation seriously like that I mean I disagree that we haven't done anything don't have a unanimous view I no because I because I'm insulted frankly I'm insult not by you oh good okay I'm insulted by this whole thing um which suggests that the oper Charles Trail committee prior has not done any it didn't accomplished anything and that's such BS I don't think that's I don't think I no that's what I take from that whole vote I've never heard any I think that's the problem like that's a problem that that because it's never talked about no something I don't 100% know how to say this but like we've volteer to take on this work of the town right and then when we did it a lot of people in town said bad job and that's why I disagree with so you disagree with it but I was there I heard them say it like you heard 231 people say it I mean how many people live in town now 20,000 people most of them don't say anything so so but you heard a you heard a group I understand what you're wild I like what and by the way so we've accomplished we the up Charles TR committee accomplished a lot of things before you ever no no no we haven't done anything we got shut down like three weeks after we definitely not accomplished anything so when I say we I'm really mean you guys but I didn't want to I love it but I didn't want to like you all did this or that so we as a board like so I honestly if if you ask me what we should do I think we should go to the select board and say we all end Mass resign and reapply for our positions open it up ask other volunteers to apply because I think that's that's what they do that's what I've heard well I think we should do it ourselves well we still have and like my point is is that no one's gonna run against us because well what about the what about all the EnV no one ran against me what about all the people that that were opposed to what we're doing where are they why they that's my and nobody when I showed up nobody would nobody else Vol I didn't win like on my good looks or my family connections I won because I was the only choice like most of G twisted his arm how most of our government position no that's actually not true but um so so my point is is that I don't think we have changed I don't isting that yeah I don't necessarily think it makes sense to say we changed I think it makes more sense we've clarified we are who we are refor I think some of the town people who were angry are like we showed them they'll be better now that modifies people us humbly resigning our jobs and saying we'd like to continue to help we're going to reapply we're not saying like screw you we're saying hey this is open we want everyone to come help us do this think these open Physicians I do and then when no one takes it the next time they say hey we don't like how you're doing it we're going to be like well you guys should have helped us better like they should have helped us is not a very constructive I'm not saying this is like a super constructive strategy but like the problem is we all are who we are like we're gonna do the best we can I think we've always been doing the best we can I think a board of imperfect people ran into an impossible task speak for yourself who's imp perfect right we all are task is a clear thing right yeah and it made people upset when we failed right but I I think that was very well put I I still think it's there's fail anything no let me tell you what I think we failed we failed that making this impossibly perfect path that didn't disrupt any land owners was in perfect area for people to like see all the scenery they loved connected the two points we need to connect without without taking anybody's land that and didn't upset any neighbors who didn't want a bike going past their house and didn't like the list of things that we like it's it's an impossible task and so of of course we failed and I think it's possible personally that with a super good approach knowing that we're going to upset people with our failures to give them exactly what they want word I know but and like part of I mean I'll even accept shortcomings but failure so if we know we're gonna have shortcomings and we're honest with the people and when they say we want jungle gyms and we go you're stupid for one jungle gyms we're not going to get any it's how you go about cor so if we go yeah jungle D would be great and we hear that that's like that's you what your element is and like so it's an approach and but it's not in scope because we don't get funding or whatever right but the problem is is that it's every time it's very difficult it's every time you have any interaction with any other individual no matter how ridiculous a situation is you just H like there there's a high probability when somebody is unhappy with the particular like the obvious choice right they're still unhappy with it and it is really really nearly impossible not to make them unhappy and like what we saw was that we made 300 people like which is obviously not the whole time not even most of the time not even it's it's it's not 5% I admit we made two people unhappy no they happen to get enough people no so and so like the I feel like that we have some like we know better in us and it's hard to lose that but we we need to figure out how to do that better anyway my point is yeah still that I think that the the real thing is is No One's Gonna Take Over the task force so we have it's an interesting suggestion I I would just say that um I agree very well put very well put I think there's a big element and it's I think this is an undertone of what you're saying of how we executed more than what we execute I think it's how we went about it right that we need to all accept to have to change all of us us whether we agree with yeah but we have to accept the fact that we have to operate much more focused much more efficiently nip things at the bud not kick things to the curb or delay them or whatever whatever perceptions there are we have to be much more attentive to responding not necessarily telling them what they want to hear but telling them honestly and immediately for example anyways I could want an example but but that's the undertone is like it's how we have to operate what I object to and why I say I'm insulted is because we have done the things that are in here but whether we've had any of those any participation from anybody it hasn't been there there's been no participation Peter once in a while you guys are here now um and also you know to say we ignored the citizens Jamie do you recall us proposing going up to pieace of private Town owns at the end of deer run we listen to your neighborhood many do we listen to the opposition in your neighborhood and what did we do we took that out of we took that out of play so we've listened to various groups along the way we've not just ignored right we haven't ignored people we listened to whatever that is Black Thorn Blackstone 10 years I don't know it's a blackone black black by the it's a bidirectional lane exactly two way two-way street but yeah they want to come right down dear run okay we have my point is that we have listened to right and so whenever I hear we we've I know failed or whatever pisses me up I know and there somehow we to not that's the hardest part is to not take any of this oh I don't take a well even people who are at the other side are being super personal about it which well that's the other part I know and like that's where I'm like I can't fault anyone for doing it but I'm still like the only way to move to finally move forward hopefully so like two things can happen one is we just lay low long enough that the people who are the most upset have found somebody else to go be upset at which is that's not going to happen well no but that like it it will if we avoid the like hard spots for a really long time they should be upset about something that there no progress on the so know right those people haven't shown up unfortunately well they haven't shown up to push the Western route here's my trail it was a red herring in my in my opinion and that's proven because there's been nothing done about this so-called Western right it might be like the benefit might be that by going away for two years we've lost our tail a little bit you know what I mean like by by go laying low we might have you know well how about this something like this approach that we just U stay away from The Hot Zone yeah for a while and concentrate on segment one which is what we kept telling people we were going to do anyway but maybe if we say it in new yeah in a Fresh Approach um got just plain openly admit we cannot solve all of the problems right now and we can only and and there's plenty to work on for the problems for the parts that we actually can should just do that yeah that's what we tried to we tried to do but we know other people are trying to get us to have the whole route so you're you're right we're gonna have a paper route for part of the way and a real route for another part of the way and and the the paper route is be figured out for another decade to get the big to get the big tip money we have to we have to submit an enf just the just just the paperwork but that's people were frightened by the enf but but but but how do we educate people yeah that's the thing that's the key word it's like if we gave I'm not saying anybody did anything wrong because you might have done this understand but I didn't I didn't catch it have time okay so it was it was a rush process that's part of it too like planning ahead but if we went out there and broadcast the heck out of it saying just telling everybody this is what we have to do because we have no choice instead of doing it and having them hear about it think it's a covert operation because of the lack of trust so I think it just Builds on the lack of trust so again it goes to how we do things is not what we were doing it's how we went about it I think we have to accept the fact that things do have to change we have to operate differently and if we acknowledge that we accept it we admit it we don't take it personally I think we can do it and it may take a decade to get that's why these um multi-use paths take 25 30 years yeah they're only 10 years and do it 12 years and oh that's it but 14 14 15 thing the thing is other it's like we've been on suful didn't have the private ownership so was Milford Milford had 80% of their Trail was already um donated yeah the abandoned real now have we have we I'm gonna toss out a flyer here have we looked at the utility route going from Ashland to Milford utility utility polls we have an entire path of utility polls cut out M Street Here We Own It the town owns it no we don't what you talking about the right away on the teny gas The High Line the high I thought national grip we have eement for some of it they have rules about what you can do with it can't go looked into the easement and we how we could use it we at it from never been anywhere if you look at an aerial view there's literally a path cut out from there mil not let you do that and it's and it's relatively flat only the only thing well there's one bump in the middle the only thing they'll let you do is cross perpendicular over it and already know that Jane looked into it forur the trouble they' given is for little we've asked for them no they just don't it's okay to have an ATV and tear it up okay um theth the select board meeting is um I would hope that everyone could show up and then feel free to join in the conversation if it's appropriate I'll just do you're not gonna be there I'm be inid you said September 17th yeah I think that's what the that it's tentative for the 17th it's tentative so they may change their mind I don't know yeah one do we need another meeting before then I don't think so okay but I do think we need to accept feedback we do good word so in summary here's our new organization chart that's around the room wa check me I have no idea what the hell that is people in the therapy or H the rock over there it looks to me like that pond is trying to go straight forward instead of taking it's a bishop oh that one this one I'm sorry ER is attacking a rook directly in front of that's illegal so voting machines oh we had a point where you'd accept a motion to adjourn I'm glad you appreciate it Shane huh you ready for a motion to adjourn yes do I have a I make a motion to adjourn I we second that motion all in favor all okay thank you all for coming thank you for all of your participation