Heat. Heat. Good evening everybody. Zoning board meeting for March 9th, 2026. Lisa, could we have the opening statement? I hereby declare this meeting of the Howell Township Zoning Board to be open adequate notice having been given
pursuant to the New Jersey Open Public Meeting Act in the following manner. First, on December 16th, 2025, copy of said notice was emailed to the Asbury Park Press and the Star Ledger. Second, on December 16th, 2025, a copy of said
notice was handd delivered to the clerk of the Powell. Third, on December 16th, 2025, said notice was posted in the office of the zoning board and on the bulletin board in the Howell Township Municipal Building, 4567 Route 9, Howell
Township, New Jersey. In accordance with the fire prevention code and for your safety, please be advised that this facility is designed with two emergency exits at the front and rear of the meeting room. Furthermore, smoking is not permitted in the municipal building. Please take note that this meeting is
being videotaped for possible future broadcast on How Township TV77. Thank you. >> Okay. >> Thank you, Lisa. Could we have a roll call? >> Yes. >> Mr. Barillo >> here. >> Mr. Caner is excused. Mr. Hughes
>> here. >> Mr. O'Donnell >> here. >> Mr. Rosco >> here. >> Mr. Ryan >> present. >> Miss Scottson >> here. >> Mr. Kabarakus >> here. Chairman Mertens, >> I am here. >> You have this time I'd like to everybody
to stand for the pledge of allegiance. Any brief moment of silence for our troops oversee fighting for us? >> To the flag of the United States of America and to the republic for which it stands. One nation under God,
indivisible, with liberty and justice for all. Thank you. >> Okay. Andy, could you swear in our professionals? >> You swear the testimony you give will be the truth, the whole truth, nothing but the truth. To help you die, do >> please state your names for the record.
>> Charles Kliff, >> Christine Bell. >> Professionals are sworn, Mr. Chairman. >> Thank you, Andy. Okay, Lisa, any minutes tonight? >> No, no minutes for approval. >> Correspondents. >> Uh, yes. Uh, John Jackson asked that the
application for case BA219 Stewart Street LLC be carried to the board's March 23rd, 2026 meeting with no further notice. >> Okay. Anybody in the audience for case number BA219? will be carried to March 23rd, 2026. No
further notice and expiration is still good at April 29th, 2026. Okay. Anything else? >> That would be it. >> Okay. Doesn't look like we have any resolutions tonight. >> No. >> Okay.
Okay. Okay, at this time before we start the first application, I just would like to ask anybody in the audience that is here tonight who's objecting to any of the applications, could you just raise your hand so I know if there's anybody
from public that needs to speak tonight? >> Okay. >> Okay, Charlie, what what do you think? So, so I guess uh for members of the public is anyone how many people are here for LNL just so we know as a member of the public then how many
folks are here for this other application woff mills. >> All right. Okay. >> Um I would recommend maybe we have LNL come in come first. It is a use variance but it's minor site modifications that they're coming in for a generator and a fuel storage tank. I think we might be
able to um get through that application relatively quickly. >> Board members with that. >> Okay. So, at this time we'll um let me read the uh case C. Case number BA18-06A
LNL Paving Company incorporate use variance and amended preliminary final site plan application of LNL Paving Company incorporate as applicant in one Greenway LLC
to Greenway LLC as owners seeking use variance an amended preliminary and final site plan approval to install a generator and a diesel tank on a concrete pad heads at the existing previously approved hot mix ashvault
plant on the premise known as block 177 lot 62-01 89 Yellowbook Road. This application was originally scheduled for February 9th, 2026 when it was rescheduled for tonight with no further notice. Expiration May
7th, 2026. Good evening. >> Good evening. How are you, Mr. Chairman? >> Yeah, good to see you again. >> Good to see you. It's It's been a while since been a while. Yeah. >> But at least it's not a full crowd behind you. >> I I had to wear I got rid of my flack jacket. >> Okay. So, >> good to see you again.
>> Good to see you. And and to the members who were here for the the prior hearings on this application, my name is Michael Butler. I'm here on behalf of the applicant tonight, Ellen El Paving. Uh just just for housekeeping, we did serve notice. I want to make sure that the board can accept jurisdiction and the
notice was sent out correctly. the board it has jurisdiction. You could proceed, Mr. Butler. >> Perfect. Thank you. Um, as the chairman, as uh has indicated, tonight's application is an an amendment to the preliminary and final major site plan approval that was granted by this board
back in 2019. Um, what my client is doing is adding uh concrete pad in the back of the property for an electrical generator for the so it can operate the the plant um and the site if there's an emergency. and also
uh a a bigger fuel tank on the property. There was already a fuel tank that was approved at the prior application. This is a bigger fuel tank that will allow them to more efficiently use use the property. And we'll I'll explain we'll explain those a little bit more when I bring up the the the witnesses. >> Okay.
>> Um there are some just minor variances that are associated with uh with the with with this application. Most of them are buffer variances, but we'll go through those those variances as as we go through the application. Okay. >> Okay. You have any professional
witnesses? Do you like We'll get them all sworn in and then then they can do their >> You swear the testimony you give will be the truth, the whole truth, nothing but the truth. >> Yes, >> I do. >> Okay. State your names for the record. Spell your last. >> Frank McIntyre. MC C I N T Y R E.
General Manager Green. Andrew Comey, COMI, civil engineer. >> Christine Cafone, professional planner. >> Witnesses are sworn. >> Okay. Thank you. >> So, take it. Your engineer will be first. >> Yes. Yes. >> Come on.
>> And uh while while Angie is setting up, just a little background for those who haven't weren't involved in the last set of uh approvals. Um the applicant first came in front of the planning board back in 2016 and we got an approval at that
point to use this property um for a construction yard and an office. Uh a few few years later we came before the zoning board again. This this was in 2018 and we started a long long history of of hearings for a use variance
application to allow the property to be used as a hot asphalt or patuminous concrete site. Um this is an amended um application because there was a long and torturous history of this uh approval in court. We
went all the way up to the Supreme Court um and this board's approval was affirmed. Um, so, uh, the site is still being actively constructed underneath that old approval and you'll hear some more about that, uh, tonight because there were some questions about some,
um, res, uh, conditions of approval that have not yet been met yet just because they're still actively constructed. >> Okay, perfect. >> So, does your qualifications? >> So, if you could I know that you were sworn in before state your name again for the record um, and provide the board
with your qualifications. >> Certainly. Uh, my name is Andrew R. Comey COMI. I'm with uh Kennedy Consulting Engineers located at 211 Maple Avenue Red Bank. Uh I'm a graduate of Ruckers University in the field of
civil engineering and I have 25 years experience uh in land development engineering >> and licensed currently that >> it is. >> Okay. Thank you. We accept your qualifications. >> Perfect. All right. Um, can we put up I think we marked it as a
nine, correct? >> Aerial exhibit. Yep. >> Do you want Here's the exhibit list if you >> Yeah, I think you have it. Okay, >> I'll check it just to make sure it's >> I do have small size versions of that exhibit. >> People usually just use that. You're okay.
Yeah, >> this big phone was this big laptop. >> And Mike, just for the board's clarity. So, um, right there, they need technically need a use variance because the original approval had a use variance. So, anything that they add to
the site triggers, you know, a new use variance approval. Um, but as far as any of the conditions and stipulations in the prior use variance approval, none of that's really changing, right? We're just talking about the generator and the fuel station. >> Correct. You're you're exactly correct. So, um because it was a used variance,
we have to come back. Um you know, I know that we were talking to the town about, hey, we're just putting a concrete pad out there. Why do we need to come back? But, so we, you know, understand we have to come back because it was a used variance. So, technically, this is a this is a expansion of the use
variance. Um, but the site is operating exactly how um the prior testimony was put in. There's no changes to any of the the prior testimony. Uh, and we'll go through that with uh with Frank McIntyre when he comes up to to testify.
>> Go ahead, if you can talk the uh the board through your exhibit A9. Corre uh exhibit A9 is an is an aerial exhibit. It's essentially uh one of the same overall site plans that was submitted but with an aerial image uh added to the
background. Uh the the site shows the property which is highlighted in red. Uh it's approximately 35 acres at lot 62.01 of block 177 and and lies in the SED one
zone. Uh just for orientation quickly to the to the east or to the right hand side of the exhibit is Yellow Brook Road. Uh a New Jersey New Jersey Transit Rail Line is to the south. Uh commercial development lies to the west. And a
single family property which is also owned by the applicant which is 69 Yellowbrook Road lies directly uh to the north or to the tip of the the triangle. So, as as Mike mentioned, the the current uh property was substantially
constructed in accordance with the prior 2019 uh approval with some minor exceptions that we'll we'll discuss. Uh but in general, that that construction associated with the the prior approval included the current production
uh facility, associated buildings, driveways, uh fencing, lighting, landscaping, parking, and and signage. Perfect. Perfect. All right. Uh, if you if you want, we can flip to exhibit. It was
morphed as A10. >> Correct. >> Is that the site plan? >> Yes. The colorized site plan. Again, it's the same site plan that was submitted, just a colorized version. >> Second. I can go through the proposed.
>> I I don't want to step on your toe. No, you're fine. >> Uh so referring to exhibit uh A10, which is just again just a colorized version of the submitted site plan. U it shows the two major uh improvements that we we'd like to discuss. The first is the
uh proposed generator which will be located uh near the Southerntherly property line adjacent to that New Jersey Transit Rail Line. The generator will will sit on a 13 by 26 foot concrete pad. The pad will be located 50
feet from the southerntherly property line. There is you'll see a a black line that that surrounds two sides of that concrete pad. That's a a block retaining wall is proposed at the rear of the generator. It that would the maximum
height of that wall would be approximately 5 feet. It will be constructed of concrete block and would be placed into the side of an existing slope. And the walls purpose is really just to help minimize the disturbance uh because of that burn that is there that
separates the property from to to the New Jersey Transit Rail Line to the south. >> Uh and just just just to jump in. So, uh and that that wall is less than 50 feet from the the property line. Slightly less. >> It's it is. Yes. And and for between it
and the property line, you said there's a there's a burm so it slopes down and then there's woods. >> That that's correct. >> Okay. Sorry. Go ahead. >> And and uh as noted in the board planners review that the generator since you mentioned are within that that side buffer area, a variance is is required.
Uh the generator will only be used uh in emergency situations and would also be exercised once approximately once once a week. The next >> and just to give the board clarity, the property immediately to the south of the
railroad line is uh anchor block. So it's another industrial use. So it's not like there's a residential property right on the other side of there. So just want to give that clarity. >> And just just just a little more clarity to to the north of to the north of the anchor block is the Girl Scout uh property. Correct. >> Correct.
>> And that's also a wooded property, >> right? It shows on the again on A9 as a wooded wooded area. Correct. >> Okay. Sorry. Yeah. The the next next uh proposed improvement is the the fuel tank which is shown on on the left hand
side of exhibit A10. Uh that's a 20,000galon above ground fuel tank which would be located in the northerly portion of the property within a paved uh equipment storage area. The tank will rest on a an 18 foot wide by 43 foot
long concrete pad surrounded by ballards uh for protection. Uh that since that uh the fuel tank is located within that equipment storage area, it will have no uh impact to site circulation, no impact to parking. There are as noted uh three
equipment storage spaces that would be eliminated. Uh but again that that those were never included in the parking calculation. and and we'll we'll talk about just for the board, we'll talk about how the the fuel tank was going to be used um with with uh with Frankfire.
So, >> and then just for the board's clarity, too. So, as part of their site plan approval, they did install a very extensive buffer along Yellow Brook Road. I want to say it's on the order of 3 to six foot high and then plantings on top of that. They had to do drip irrigation to make sure that those buffers. So, you know, from Yellow Brook
Road, this is going to be largely not visible uh as much of the site is in the existing condition. So, >> thank you. >> Okay. Um next, if we could uh flip back to uh A9, the aerial exhibit. >> And that's actually good that that we're
here while you're you're flipping. Um the fuel tank uh it is indicated on A9 in the yellow. Is that correct? >> Correct. The nor Yes, the northerly of the two yellow circles. >> Okay. Um, and then if if you could
scroll down, um, the generator is I can't see it's behind Mr. Donald's head. Um, but it's towards the the back of the property in that in that yellow area. >> Correct. >> Correct. >> That natural gas the generator.
>> Well, we'll get an answer to that question. >> Okay. Thank you. >> Uh, the next next is I just wanted to touch upon is there is a concrete structure that was previously installed. It's shown on this exhibit. There are two dimensions from that structure, but
but it's not called out with a yellow circle. It's to the north on the northwest northwest property line. Uh this this structure was constructed to house the electrical gear for the truck scale. And surrounding that structure is similar to what's proposed behind the
generator is another uh block retaining wall that's uh about six feet high at at at its maximum point. Similarly, that block wall was constructed into an existing landscape burm and it again its purpose was to minimize disturbance to
that to that existing burm. Uh the structure is 35.4t to the northerly property line and it's required to be 50 feet to the property line and therefore a variance is required. >> Perfect. Um, and I know we're going to
talk quickly about some uh maybe the board engineers review letter. Um, the proposed changes uh to the site, do they have any impact on storm water management? >> No. Or I know you talked before, but just to confirm the circulation around the site.
>> No impact to site circulation. There is a a very minor increase in in lot coverage and impervious coverage due to primarily to that concrete pad for the for the generator. The fuel pad is located over an existing asphalt uh
paved asphalt parking area as well already. So there's no increase uh for that structure. >> Perfect. Um and then there was another variance that that we were talking to the planners office about. I just want to bring the board this to the board's attention because it's a little um it's
not I'm not going to say it's odd, but it's it's a very it's a technical variance. Um can you scroll up just a little bit? Um there is a technically there's a buffer uh variance because a very small portion of I'm going to call it the
lefthand side, but it's the northwest corner of the property. Um on the other side of the tracks is uh the railroad tracks is a resident not it's the AR2 zone. >> Correct. >> Um and there's an interpretation that there could potentially be a variance
because it's an industrial property that borders a residential property. >> Yes. >> Okay. And once again, that area is fully wooded. Um to the north is an industrial site. Then there's the railroad track and then there's the Girl Scouts.
>> That's right. Yes. Okay. Perfect. So the uh we I've reviewed the uh board engineers letter. We can certainly agree to comply with uh any of the conditions. The only thing I wanted to touch on just a couple quick things. Uh per the prior
approval, there was some fencing that wasn't constructed, 124 linear feet of 10 foot high uh privacy fence along the northerly uh entrance driveway. and the applicant agrees to install that prior to any certificate of occupancy. And
then uh 69 Yellow Brook Road, which I mentioned, that's the single family residential property to the north. Uh it was agreed that that prior to a certificate of occupancy, that that residential uh house would would be demolished and and therefore that would
uh eliminate any variance of of this property adjacent to a residential property. Correct. And we're just we're just we're covering all of our bases, which is why which is why we're talking about it. The original approval did have a condition of approval that we would
that the the applicant would take that residence out of uh existence. Um and they still plan on doing that. It was tied to the CO for the property and that's still that's still going to be condition of approval and that's still going to occur. >> So can you just clarify that for the
board? So the applicant doesn't have a CO to operate from the site as it is. >> Uh they have they have TCOs that issued not a full final CO. >> What do you know what the conditions are holding up the full final CO? >> Um so the there was some remediation that had to
be done on the property from the prior owner. >> Okay. >> Um that's still in process. I think it's potentially done. The goal is to get the property under a full CO by the end of the year. >> Okay. All right. I don't take an exception. And I just want to note for the board's record, so the structure on
the north side of the scale house that's accessory to the scale house. It's the hydraulics for the actual scale itself. You know, it was just probably an afterthought. They have gotten a TCO operating from the site. So the township has acknowledged that it's been there. I don't take any exception to it. We just wanted to make sure that it got on the
record just so it's protected as part of any, you know, board approval tonight. Um, and then just Mike, I'll just jump in and go. So, uh, as part of the prior approval, the applicant made their prorated share for a future signalization at Yellow Brook and Route
33. >> You know, we actually couldn't we couldn't make that determination whether it was paid or not. Um, but if it hasn't been paid, it will be paid >> prior to Okay. >> All right. And then, um, generator, obviously, we'll talk about the use, but it's going to comply with all the
township's noise ordinance requirements in that regard. >> Correct. >> Okay. And, uh, the fuel storage tank. So, right now it kind of just shows the tank and a concrete pad. You'll resolution compliance. You'll show ballards and everything for uh I'm assuming that's like covered by state
statute for protection of the tank so it's not blown up. And then it's for the applicant's own personal use. There's no third party coming in here to fuel, right? >> Correct. And and we'll go over that uh testimony with uh Frank McIntyre. But yes, the the fuel tank is solely used by LNL Paving um for its own equipment.
>> Okay. And then uh I think we should just talk about it. The sidewalk ordinance might have changed a little bit since their last time here. Um you know, I don't know that we specifically granted a sidewalk waiver the first time around. I don't take any exception to it. I just wanted to note it for the record if you
know if the the board should just come because it is an amendment to the site plan approval. Um as part of their site plan, the the road kind of they have curb cuts and the road kind of grades onto their property to some extent. So installing sidewalk along the frontage would certainly be counterintuitive to
the drainage schematic for Yellow Brook Road there. So I don't take an issue to it and I just wanted to put on the record for for the board. >> Is that acceptable? >> That that is acceptable. Yes. >> Okay. I I concur. We don't need it there. Okay.
>> Anything else, Charlie? >> I think we can hear operational. >> No, that's that's that's good. >> Any board members with any questions for the engineer? Just one question. Um, the aerial view shows that there are three entrances onto the property. Is that going to
remain as three or is that being modified? The one >> Yeah, that that's that's going to remain. So, there there are two entrances into what I'm going to call the plant area um for trucks to to circulate the property and then there's
one entrance that goes to the office. So there they're you actually you can't drive from the office to the to the plant area. >> Correct. Okay. So the fencing that you mentioned earlier that's going to continue along that line of Yellow Brook Road.
>> Uh no, it's all along the northerly entrance drive just on it's it's 100 foot 124 foot long. It just essentially goes from Yellow Brook Road into the site on that northernmost driveway on the southerntherly side of the drive. >> Yeah. And to give the board some context
on that. So I think in the course of the hearings there was discussion about the residential buffer to the property to the north and then through the whole multi-year process I think the applicant bought that property and there was a agreement to uh convert that use from a residential to office in the future. So,
at some point they agreed to the fence. And then I think also the fact that the driveway you can't physically put a buffer across the driveway that also provided some screening if you're driving south on Yellow Brook Road, you know, to maybe not see directly into the site too much. >> And and the the third the third reason
for that actually. Yeah, that's perfect. If you can can you turn it a little? So, perfect. So actually right there between between the the grass and the the pavement is where that fence is going to be. And the third reason for the fence
being in existence is for nighttime operations. So if you uh for if you for those who are here if you remember for the new board members the site does operate at night but it doesn't produce um any asphalt. It does it's allowed to um to distribute it. So trucks can come
into the site and in order to meet noise regulations, the the circulation changes and trucks come in and out of this northern driveway more often. And um the buffer the wall is to buffer the sound while trucks are on the um on a scale.
>> Okay. >> All right. Thank you. >> I have a couple quick questions. Good. Nick, >> um you said that there was going to be a larger tank. Um so there's going to be two tanks. We're keeping the smaller tank. We're getting rid of the smaller tanks. It's going to be one tank.
>> One tank. One tank. The smaller tank will be removed and the the larger tank will be on site. >> One tank. And getting back to how's the generator being powered? >> I'll get I'll get you an answer when I get uh Frank McIntyre up here. >> Okay. And you mentioned something about
remediation and what is that? Why is that concerning? >> It's so the the prior owner um was obligated to do some site remediation from a prior use. Um and that was part of I think they're either done or very close to being done. They had some
>> What was it that's being done? What's being remediated? >> Uh this the soil and Frank McIntyre can provide some more details. So there was um where and I don't want to provide testimony but one of the site there was an old um concrete manufacturing
facility on this property and part of the site had some oil that that was remediated. >> Gotcha. >> And just additional context to that. So, the site had a history going back to like the 80s of being a concrete uh pre-cast plant and I think the applicant
provided extensive testing where they removed like up to a foot of like broken concrete throughout the site and part of their redevelopment of the project. And then Mike, is there an LSRP for the site remediation? >> Yes. >> Yeah. So, so anything they can't close that out until their LSRP signs off to
it. So, it's not like they're just willy-nilly things, >> right? and and the the area the area that is being remediated is an area that's intended to be seated and grasped. There's there's actually no buildings going there. >> Yeah. If you if you're if you're looking
at the it's there's a there's a rect a white rectangle on the the southeastern side near the uh the railroad. That's the cold storage building. In front of that is the area that's being remediated. When I say in front of that, it's the kind of the
grassy area in between that building and the office. >> Okay. Thank you, >> John. >> So, Mr. Comey, the distance from the tank to the generator, what what roughly what's the distance there?
>> Roughly ballpark. The way the crow flies >> from the tank to the generator. >> Yeah. >> 700 ft. Why why is the tank so far away from the generator? I'm assuming is there an actual connection or is it is a >> no no connection.
>> So the fuel is going to be brought so does the generator have a tank of its own? A smaller tank? >> Again, you'll have to hear from the the applicants. So >> yeah, we'll we'll we'll give you some more once I get s Frank up here. We'll information on how how it's going to
work. But there is no intention for so the the generator does not power the the pump. >> The generator is for the the the facility, >> right? But the fuel tank is for the generator.
>> No, the fuel tank is for the the fueling of LNL's equipment. >> Okay. >> So trucks trucks and and I call them diggers. They're not diggers. They're back back >> hos. Okay. So the on-site equipment. Correct. Okay. Okay. Thank you. >> Okay.
Thanks. >> Perfect. Thank you. >> All right. So, here's the man with with the answers. >> I can just state your name again for the record. >> Frank McIntyre. >> Okay. Uh, >> a lot of you may know me as Sandy. You
can call me that, too. And you were pre previously sworn in, so you you are still under oath. >> Um, >> can you There were some questions about the electrical uh generator and how that's powered. Can you just talk? >> Okay. Just can you just talk to board
the generator? >> If you would like, I'll just I know all the questions. If you want, I'll just go ahead and answer. >> Yeah, answer them first and then >> Okay. So, the generator is good idea. >> Uh, it's got a self-contained diesel tank that's beneath it. It's a 24-hour tank, they call it. Um, and it, you
know, we do, uh, we own the generator already. It sits on a trailer because when this came up, it was kind of an oversight that we didn't do this. So, it sits on a trailer and it's wired to the thing manually. So, this is we're trying to get it where it's supposed to be. Um, and we do have a fuel truck on site like
a regular fuel truck that you would see going to someone's house and that's how we fuel that. Some of the larger equipment also, that's how we fuel them as well. Uh, as far as the de uh diesel tank, it is a 20,000galon what they call a split tank. Is 12,000 gallons of
on-road fuel like for trucks and 8,000 gallons of off-road fuel for like machinery and you know uh equipment of such like that the generator. Um it is identical to the tank that the town has. >> That's all diesel, right? Onroad fuel, no gasoline. Uh it's a self-contained
uh dual wall fireguarded tank. It's uh impact resistant. Uh it's supposed to be able to take a hit from a large truck and not be penetrated. It's supposed to be able to have it's a burn rating of 4 hours at 2,000 degrees before the fuel would reach a temperature that would
cause it to uh become dangerous. Uh there are ballards every four feet all the way around it uh on its own self-contained. It comes what they call plug-andplay. It comes on a truck. We pour the pad, you drop it down, plug it in, and that's the end of it. It's a self-contained unit. Um, I think that
was all the questions you asked. If there's anything else, >> did we miss anything? >> Just a little clarification. So, okay. So, there's going to be a 20,000 uh gallon diesel tank with two different types of diesel in there, onroad, off-road. Then you have a diesel truck, a tank, a tanker on site.
>> So, what we do because a tank like that, I wouldn't want to take any tracked machines and drive across the property on the paved surfaces and what have you. So, we have a small oil truck that we purchased from an oil. Actually, the guy who delivers our fuel was an older truck. We cleaned it up, painted it nice, has our colors and names on it.
Looks nice. And what we do is they they keep that full, too. So, if we're using a big excavator or a bulldozer or something in the recycle yard, that's how we would fuel that. >> So, you'll use the 20,000gallon tank to fill up that fuel truck. >> We We can. Yes. Okay. We can. The the
reason being is so we have a a 2,000galon onroad right now and a 10,00 gallon off-road. We have fuel delivered every day. You're paying for that delivery. This is a more efficient way to do it. We can get one delivery of each a week. >> Okay.
>> So, it's um it's kind of crazy when you see the numbers. I was a little flabbergasted myself. We'll pay for this thing in two years. >> So, as the fuel tank in the generator is depleted, how will you fill that tank back up? >> With the truck. with the truck from the
tank from the 20,000 gallon tank. >> We could. Yeah, it depends. You know, or if they, you know, f fuel guys are we will probably do that now because what they do is now the fuel truck comes, he fills that tank, fills that, he fills the truck, you know, it'll be a little more, you know, >> efficient. We can fill it off the big
tank. It's uh >> it's flexible. >> Yeah. And the way we're setting it up is as Mike spoke about the uh the flow of the traffic. It's going to be on the far side of that parking lot. We're designing it so the trucks the end of the day can come in that driveway, the two of them, and we're making it one way
on either side of it. Trucks can pull up if they have a trailer with a machine. So, we're going to have a double pump on this end, a double pump on this end. This ends the on-road, they can fuel the truck. This ends the off-road, they can fuel the machine, they go park in the day, >> but they don't idle when they're when they're fueling.
>> No, actually, thei the system's actually really good because, you know, as we've been growing and everything like that. So, we have separate different you know, different companies. We have, we have LNL, we have uh Greenway and the we have one fuel tank. So this way it has a computer in it and each truck will have
a card in it attached to the key. So you have to shut the truck off to get the card to get the fuel and then they'll also document what truck, what driver, how many hours, the mileage, whatever it is, whether it's a machine hours, whether it's a truck mileage, and you'll be able to document and it'll separate
the company. So it's going to be way more efficient. >> Okay. And Frank, just to clarify, so the fuel tank that's will draw electric from that central garage shop building. >> That's correct. I believe in the plan it shows a line going right down to the
building. It's nothing crazy. It's not a lot of electric. >> And then the generator itself, does that provide emergency for everything on site, just the asphalt plant? >> The plant. >> Okay. >> And the reason this all came about when we built the plant originally, they wanted a large CT cabinet. It was crazy
like hundreds of thousands of dollars. And I kind of lost my mind. We w up, we bought a switch gear for it. And so that's what'll happen is it'll sit on the ground and it's where the power comes to the plant. If the power cancels, the switch changes it, starts the generator and fires the plant.
>> Reason being is you can't if the plant were to go down in the middle of production, you know, storm, whatever the case may be. And any of you who live out that way know power goes out at the drop of a hat. Now you have the plant all full of hot asphalt. You got to get it out. It could be it's it's a catastrophe when it gets hard in there.
>> We've had it. >> So, and then when you you say the fuel tank also services equipment on site. So, there's equipment associated with the asphalt plant loading all the aggregates into the actual plant, but then you also have a class B recycling license on the site as well, right? Correct. >> And that license for the class B is valid in with the state and everything
like that. >> Yep. We update that uh every year. >> All right. That's all I have. >> Allows you to take in millings to use for wrap for >> correct. We take in >> millings, chunk asphalt. We take in concrete and block and we crush it up. The concrete obviously is used for road
base and what have you, but all the asphalt is used to go back in the plant. Those of you who were here for the original uh thing, our plant is what they call a high wrap plant. It can use up to 65% recycled material. It's a super, you know, environmentally friendly plant. And we run like 50 55%
most of the time. You know, I know there was a lot of testimony when it was all happen say we're gonna have mountains of asphalt over the place. We run out of it constantly because we use so much of it. So, it's a good thing. It's a real good thing. >> Um, >> yeah, go ahead.
>> Sandy, on both of them with the generator and the uh diesel tank, is there any special fire equipment for both of them? And if you do, could you explain how it works if in the event there was a fire in either one? So, I'm not mistaken with the fire ordinance
like our present tank, you have to have fire extinguishers right there. We have two hanging on our fire on our >> just fire extinguishers. I mean, >> fire extinguishers. I mean, it is diesel fuel. Um, it's hard to ignite diesel fuel. I mean, you know, any fire class you see, they show you, they put a match
out in it. But, uh, again, these tanks, this tank that we we're purchasing is, uh, designed safety oriented. You know, like I said, it's dual wall. It's designed to take a fire for up to four hours. Um, impact resistant. It's, you
know, they are very safety oriented. They had an incident years and years ago with one of their buildings, so they're a little afraid of fire. >> And the the generator, >> the generator, uh, like I said, it has a tank underneath it. Um, but it has all sorts of emergency stops and what have
you on it. Um, it's very, you know, self-contained. There's really not much to it. It's okay. It's It's designed to shut off if anything goes wrong. It almost a little too much. We've had issues with it being brand new and it shut off in the middle of running one day, >> you know. So, but like anything new
nowadays, computers and what have you, make you nuts. >> All right. I was just curious. >> Sure. And that generator when it goes in, it has to be it's inspected by JCPNL. >> Well, when we install it, it will be uh installed by our electricians. So, it'll be inspected by the town's uh electrical
inspector and then JCPNL will look at it as well and then they put the power back in because we have to disconnect the power to the plant to hook it up because the back of the cabinet that we have to hook into is live at the moment. >> So, you can't be in there playing with it when it's alive.
>> Does the fire um give you a letter? So, they're all the town's okay with everything >> that's gone to all the >> You would have Yeah, that would be contingent on the >> Okay. Just real quick, Mr. McIntyre, the generator you said has a 24-hour tank. >> They call it a 24-hour tank.
>> And that subterranean built beneath it. >> It's underneath the unit. It's not in the ground. It's a self-contained unit. I >> And how many gallons is that tank? >> I'd be lying if I said no. They call it a 24-hour g 24-hour tank. If I told you it's the size of the the generator, >> 13 by 26.
>> Well, that's the pad. It's smaller than that. I would say the uh generator is about 6 and 1/2 ft wide and probably about 13 or 14 ft long. Um and then the tank is probably about if I had to guess 24 in tall, maybe a little less 20 22.
>> Okay. >> And it sits underneath and it draws the fuel out of the bottom. >> So the burn through on that generator for 24 hours, I don't know how much it's going through, but are we looking a couple hundred gallons underneath? I would say it's probably somewhere in the neighborhood about five or six hundred
gallons. >> You know, the engine inside of that thing is rather large. It's a big generator to run that plant. We have a 2,000 amp service into the plant. So, >> when the I can tell you for a fact the plant when it's running pulls about 445 amps
>> cuz I had to check that when we were >> sizing the generator. They told me to get a 500 amp. I got a 600 because I just want to be safe. So, since it's not underground, there's an exposure to the outside of that. >> It's in a what they call a sound attenuated unit.
>> It's uh when it's running, you can barely even hear it. You get to stand next to them. We could hold this conversation. >> Not so much the generator. The fuel tank. >> The fuel tank is a underneath it. It's part of the structure, the frame of it if you as you >> So, it's part of the generator. >> It's part of the generator separate. It's all one unit. >> Yep.
>> Okay. Thank you, Mr. >> Within the metal of the >> It's all within the metal. It looks >> if you looked at it, it's all white and the bottom is black, but that's the frame and the fuel tank. >> Yeah. And just to add to that, right? So, um it's just if they lose power in
the middle of normal operating hours that they were approved to as part of their prior approval, they could continue to manufacture asphalt and not have disruption. There were still conditions of the approval about like when the plant had to stop manufacturing, couldn't be making asphalt overnight. I think they're allowed to store it in the silos for
night paving operations and things like that, but it's not to circumvent so you can run 24/7 through the night. It's just when you lose power during the approved hours of operation, they're able to continue to operate the plant. >> And also to expound on that is the only reason it would run all the time if the
power was out is there's the tanks that hold the AC, the salvic cement, they are heated by a separate unit that is powered through the plant. um because it keeps that oil at 370 degrees all the time and uh so that has to have power
maintained to it as well. >> And I think the I think the condition was there was no production after 9:00. >> No, no, >> that was a yes to the to that's the condition. >> That's the condition. No, we don't. >> No, we don't. >> We got you.
>> I got you. >> Got you. Um just to just just you got what I was put just to circle back to the the the the concrete structure by the scale house and the retaining wall just just to confirm what what is the what's in that concrete structure. So what that is is uh when it was necessary
to get power out there for the scale house and also for all the lights um there's large power in the garage so we had to run power out there and then there was a transformer and then you know and then you have to put a panel in and all the electrician says to me well we'll put it we'll put an outdoor stuff
and uh then you can you know build a shed around it. I'm like I'm going to put an electrical shed outside like you know like a wooden shed around it say well the old concrete plant had this concrete building. It was 6' by like 12t long. It's uh and it was it had electrical stuff in. I go, "Hold on. I
got perfect thing for that." And we just moved it up there and put everything right inside of that. It's protected from the environment and it houses all that stuff. It's just a lot safer, neater, cleaner looking. It looks like it belongs instead of some little wooden shack.
>> Okay. >> I I don't have any further questions. I don't know if anyone from the board does. >> Okay. Guess we're ready for Christine. >> Thank you. >> Thank you. >> You again. >> Me again.
>> I was going to stay here. I know >> you'd be justified. I was just here. I should have brought snacks. >> Um, good evening, chairman and members of the board. For the record, Christine Caffone. I'm a licensed professional planner. I've testified here in Howell many times as well as hundreds of other
planning and zoning boards and my licenses are current and valid. >> You're good. Thank you. >> And I was the planner on the original application and I have to say I did take a tour of the plant the other day. So if you wanted to go out and see it, I think you'll be pleased with how it's operating.
>> Buffer is >> it's really operating nicely and clean and tight. And I think it's really one of the projects that I am proud of. It was a long time getting to that. So, it was nice. It was freezing the day that we went out, but it was nice to take a
tour of the site. So, the reason we're here is because, as this board well knows, hot mix asphalt is not a permitted use in the SED zone, the SED1 zone. So, because even this is really what I would consider a dimminimous expansion of that approval because the
use was established by D1 variance, we have to come and seek a Dvariance for any modifications to it. So you heard the testimony from prior witnesses that in addition to the D1, we're also seeking some variance relief. So first a minor intrusion into the buffer for both
the generator as well as the retaining wall and then for the buffer to that adjoining property on lot 60 or at 69 Yellowbrook Road. So I would submit to the board that I will rely on the purposes that I relied on when I originally testified on this application for the grant of the variance which is
criteria G which talks about sufficient space in appropriate locations for a variety of uses and then also criteria M which talks about an efficient use of land. You heard the testimony earlier from our engineer that this will be a very limited use application and it will
have no impact to either the parking or the circulation plan that's existing on the site today which functions well safely and efficiently. Um I would submit to the board that there will be no substantial detriment to the impact on the zone plan. When you look at the stated purpose of the SED zone at
section 188-79 in your zoning ordinance here it reads as follows. The purpose of the SED zone is to provide for a variety of economic development opportunities in areas of the township where rail and highway infrastructure are readily available. So because we meet that
stated purpose of the um of the zone plan, I see no substantial detriment. The other thing I think if you were part if you had the pleasure of participating in the last application you know that buffers were significant and we spent a lot of time and care and consideration
to go um into not only the dimensions of the buffer but what went in those buffers and I can tell the board that it's my opinion having been on site you know recently that I think the the buffers are performing well and will allow us to continue to meet our burden
of proof with respect to the negative criteria having no substantial detriment to the um to the zone plan of the public good. So I do think we meet our burden of proof for the entirety of the relief sought in conjunction with this application relative to the D as well as the C variances.
>> Good job Christine. >> Um I take no issue with the testimony. I think you know the um the proposed improvements are minimal. I don't think it really impacts um the prior approvals.
Any questions for the planner? >> Okay. Thank you. Thanks, Christine. We'll see you soon. >> Yes, you will. >> Okay. At this time, we will now open to public. >> I'll make a motion, Mr. Chair. >> Mr. Hughes, Mr. Arasco with the second.
All in favor? >> I >> Okay, Lisa. So, the chairman has opened the hearing for the members of the public to ask questions or comment on this application. If you would like to speak, please come up to the podium and you will need to provide your name and
address and you will be sworn in. >> Seeing none, Mr. Chair, I'd like to make a motion to close. >> Mr. Hughes with the motion to close. >> Second by Ann Marie. All in favor? >> Yes. >> I >> Okay. Anything else from the professionals?
>> You're good. >> Good. >> Mr. Sure. Um I just want to add I talked to John and he indicated there's no history of any kind of violations or anything since they've been operating approval. So everything's been on the up and up and then um it's actually just a question from Mr. Butler. So along with
prior to the CEO the residential use to the north being abandoned um when that lease expires, there was a temporary trailer um south of like the permanent office building on the site. that's still going to go away when that occurs prior to see a full CO or is the applicant have any
intent to want to make that a permanent installation? >> Um the the the current idea is to take that >> to to remove that. Um if the board remembers there was testimony at the at the last hearing about uh a new office
um off off site. That's still the the aim. Okay. >> Uh the property may be different a different property, but the aim is to take that off. >> Okay. So if the applicant ever wanted to make it permanent, they would come back or >> Yes. >> Okay. All right. Are you sure?
>> We like you guys. >> And all you're going to abide by all conditions of the prior approval? >> Yes. We're not We're not asking for any relief from the prior conditions of approval. >> Okay. Do you have any more you want to add? I think >> No, that I think I think that's it. Um
except to thank you for your time. Well, thank you. >> Good questions. >> I'm glad that uh we got through this application in less than an hour, not like last time. >> Wow. Yeah, we had uh 15 hearings. >> Yeah. >> And then I had another two years of court.
>> Yeah. >> So, anyway, what's the pleasure of the board? >> Mr. Chair, I'd like to make a motion to approve uh to approve this application. um everything seems in line and we know that the the property has been properly
moving forward from from their last visit with us. So, I'd like to go ahead and make a motion to approve. >> Okay, I have a second. >> Mr. Chairman, I'll second that motion. Uh I think that everything the applicant has put before
the board seems in order. They were able to successfully answer all the questions that were asked of them. And I think as long as all the regulations regarding uh the de uh the conditions of the tanks being put in are met and everybody signs
off on it, I have no reason to see why we can't go forward with this. >> Okay, we have a second by Mr. Ryan. Roll call. >> Mr. Barillo, >> yes. >> Mr. Hughes, >> yes. >> Mr. O'Donnell, >> yes. >> Mr. Orosco, >> yes.
>> Mr. Ryan, >> yes. Miss Scottson. >> Yes. >> Chairman Martins, >> I can concur with Mr. Hughes and Mr. Ryan. Everything looks great. Thank you. You guys have been fabulous having you over there. >> So, I approve. Uh, yes. As well.
>> Thank you very much. >> Applications. >> Thank you. >> Thank you. >> Okay. At this time, does anybody would anybody like to take a brief recess? Mr. Hugh says he's good. >> So, we're gonna go right to the next
application. >> Thank you. >> Oh, okay. Okay, next application is case number BA25-17 Whiteoff Mills Road LLC for a use variance. Application of White Cop Mills
Road LLC is applicant and owner seeking approval to operate a trade contractor business, landscape business or flex space for remote service provider on the property. The existing building is to be utilized for the proposal use and
appears that all existing improvements are to remain. The only proposed improvements are the striping of eight parking stalls and the installation of concrete wheel stops on the premise known as block 143, lot 26.01
572 Whiteoff Mill Road. This application was originally scheduled to be heard on February 23rd, 2026 when the meeting was cancelled to a little snow.
The expiration is March 31st, 2026. Good evening. >> Good evening. >> Good evening. My name is Bob McGowan. I'm attorney. I have the honor of representing the applicant on this particular application. >> If I just know, you could sit down. you
prefer that. There's a microphone. That's fine. Sure. >> Yep. If you're either way. >> Either way. Okay. >> I just got back from being in Europe, so I don't want to fall asleep. So, better to stand. >> My Okay, that's good.
Uh, as the chairman indicated, uh, you know, this application is to take a very unique property, uniquely shaped. uh it's really a leftover piece from the residential development and um
and converted into a more active uh and and you know functional use. Um, and so we've we've asked that a number of uh different uses be approved as an approved use, realizing that each of those uses may have different
characteristics uh that the board may want to and will probably want to address during a site plan review. We have a particular uh user in mind at the moment. It is a con a local contractor basically does home
improvement kind of work. uh he and his wife worked together. Uh they would set up an office there. They would have their tradesmen and or their employees uh come to the building, pick up supplies, leave the property and go work for the day. Uh there is no intent to
have any retail business on this property whatsoever. Uh the the feeling is that by having uh an active use placed at the site, it actually becomes safer uh as well as more productive. Uh
the site is being used and has been used for a considerable period of time as a cell tower. The cell tower exists on a water tower that was originally developed for the community that's next to it. Over time, of course, the water tower was abandoned in use, but
continues to be structurally sound and continues to support at least three different cell tower operators. Uh with that said, I would like to again call our engineer. Uh obviously I'd also like the confirmation that the notice is
acceptable and that we have jurisdiction. >> Uh yes Bob the board has jurisdiction to proceed and I think the chairman prefers to swear in all your professionals >> at the same time. >> All right. Well I have two professionals who are here and also the owner is here and is going to provide some testimony.
So uh if you >> if we have questions for the owner he can come up and then we can swear them and then that that's >> okay. So the two professor, >> we'll see what we can do with >> Do you swear the testimony you give will be the truth, the whole truth, nothing but the truth, the help you got? >> Yes. >> They state your names for the record. Spell your last.
>> Christine Kapone. C O F O N E. >> Michael Wesowski. >> Spell that please slowly. >> We e s l. >> Thank you. Thank you.
>> Okay. So, we'll get his qualifications and then we can >> Michael, would you please provide the board with a summary of your qualifications? >> Certainly. >> Experience. >> I'm a principal engineer with Shoreoint Engineering and a licensed professional engineer in the state of New Jersey since 2010. My license is current and in
good standing. provided testimony in front of various land use boards throughout the state including this board. >> Okay. Thank you. We accept your qualifications. >> Thank you. >> Michael, we have a review letter of November 7th from TNM. Uh do you want to address that or how would you like to
start? >> Uh you provide an overview kind of of the project and at some time we can go through the letter. >> Okay. >> Uh if you would uh bring up the recently submitted exhibit titled Aerial Image >> if that's available. >> He's working on it. Okay. >> Is that a building exhibit?
>> No, that was emailed in advance of the hearing. >> And Mr. >> Chair, while we're bringing something up, it's question for Mr. McGallan. So, we said the water tank that's there that is no longer active that that used to
service the villages community to the south of this. >> My understanding in reviewing the history is that this was developed by uh Hobbilu. Um, this property was part of uh 1940 photos show that this was actually
a working farm at this point at that time rather the existing building in fact seems to be in the footprint of maybe the house that existed at that time but in any event this property was part of the Hobbilu development which is next door which is 200 and some units I
believe or maybe 300 units. So, uh, Hobbilt used this sliver of property as its operating center for both running that development for building the water tower which I assume they were required to build at that time as part of the
development and also uh running initially the association out of that. Finally, when the community building was built, they left this structure and went to Dham Heel Boulevard or whatever number one. But it's that building, the
community building at the front of the development. After that, uh there was sporadic use maybe by some of the service people for uh the cell towers, but beyond that really has been an empty or vacant building for most of that.
>> So the tower itself, does it actually have water that services the hot bill? >> Best of my knowledge, no. >> Okay. So, and then there is a history of prior approvals for the different cell carriers on that. Do you have any information for the board on what the
terms of any leases for those um cell carriers on the tower and when those expire and you know >> I don't but as I say the the principal the applicant is here tonight and he has >> had negotiations on that he acquired
this I believe through a a second tier of of a tax sale uh on this property and uh has has gone through a lot of efforts in trying to figure out the leases apparently were made with cha with hopuilt rather and
he'll testify to it in such a manner that they prepaid the lease and as a result there is no current income to the or at that point it appeared there was no current income I believe that he was able to make some progress on that with one or more of the cell tower providers
he can provide that information to >> yeah and and you know that's the reason I bring it up because they do need use varants for multiple uses not just the couple that they want to get as part of this application, but you know, for that second structure and uses on there, it's it's multiple uses. So, I just we want to get more detail on it.
>> Okay. >> Yep. >> Yeah, we do want to retain the cell tower use obviously, >> uh, but we want to add something where the building and the rest of the property can be productively used. >> Okay, Mike. >> Sure. >> Right. The exhibit before you this
evening, it's titled Aerial Image 572 Wolf Mills Road. I don't know if we need to mark that in the record or not yet. >> It is. >> So, it's A10. >> Okay. This image shows the subject property outlined in white in the approximate center of the page. As you
can see, as as Mr. McGawan stated, it is a very uniquely shaped piece of property in that it is quite deep and quite narrow. The dimensions of that lot, its depth is about 690 ft. The first 500 feet of that has a width of 60 feet.
Then that opens to a 100 foot width for the last 200 feet of its depth. And the reason I mention all those dimensions, as you'll hear throughout our presentation this evening, is the typically required buffer along the north, east, and southerntherly property lines thereby encompasses the entirety
of the parcel. The subject property zoned AR1 has frontage to the west along Wyoff Mills Road across from which lie two first financial credit union buildings within the HD1 zone. To the north lies the
Adelfia Cemetery. To the northeast lies a single family home development. Both of those are also zoned AR1. And to the east and south lies the villages residential development zoned R4.
We could then pan to the submitted use variance point. I'm looking for This was the submitted use variance plan. >> Correct. >> Mike, while we're waiting, can you go over those dimensions again? You said it
was 60 ft wide. >> Sure. So that front portion that you see is a little bit narrower in the beginning. >> That's about 60 feet in width. >> And what's the total length? >> Total length is about 690 ft. And and as far as acreage, does it come to an acre? >> Uh 1.14, unfortunately.
>> Okay, good. Thank you very much. >> Can everybody see this? Uh you want to Okay, I was wondering if we wanted to zoom in on it. >> A4. >> Oh, no. Completely different town. There was multiple pieces of PDFs on that
flash drive. >> That would have been submitted with the original application. >> State Park. >> Pay no attention to what's on the screen. There you go. >> That looks a little better. Okay, so this was our submitted use
variance plan. The top half of which depicts the property existing condition and the bottom portion depicts the minor improvements to the site. I'm walking you through what exists today project or the site, excuse me, contains an asphalt driveway coming into the site and some
gravel areas. The building toward the rear of the property is approximately 1,800 square feet in size. It's a single story. Directly behind that is an approximately 80 square foot shed. Obviously, we discussed the water tower as well as numerous groundmounted
electrical equipment, all of which supports the various cell tower uses on that water tower. Following the northerly property line from Woff Mills Road are utility poles and overhead lines that service the building and equipment at the rear.
Again coming in from White Off Mills Road, you have a driveway apron which quickly tapers down to an approximately 11 foot wide driveway. And that driveway comes into the site about 300 ft. Then you'll see that driveway width opens up to an approximate 40 foot wide asphalt
portion about 190 ft further in. And at that point you've encountered the existing building. Now, adjacent to that wider driveway portion is an additional 8 foot wide gravel strip that then opens up on the south end of the building to
provide and function as a loading area to that building where there's a single overhead door in the approximate center of the southern building wall. Then finally wrapping generally along the southern and easterly property lines
is a fencing of various types. Then moving down to the proposed condition. >> Excuse me, sir. >> Yes. >> I'm sorry. What? How do you pronounce your name again? >> Uh, Michael's Fine. >> Michael's fine. Okay. Um, the existing building, is it one story or two story?
>> It is one story despite I believe the survey labeling it as two. >> Two story. Yeah. Okay. >> Thank you. >> You're welcome. >> Okay. Okay, as you may have read, the property itself uh is the subject of several existing non-conformities which
I'll simply identify. The proposed or minimum lot width 200 feet is required whereas 59.9 ft exists. Minimum sideyard setback 40T is required where this is a minor correction 19.1 ft
exists at the north side of the building. And finally, maximum lot coverage 30% is required whereas 38.9% exists. >> We can't get the A4 like we can't. >> Yeah, the improvements you see here are
again minor in nature. We're proposing the stripe 8 10 foot wide by 19t deep spaces and that includes one ADA space as well as the adjacent access aisle. Concrete wheel stops are be being provided within each stall in lie of any
curbing. Those eight spaces address the parking requirements for the proposed portion of the office and warehouse sections of the building. In addition to providing for four anticipated spaces for fleet vehicles
uh within that rear or I guess sideyard loading area you'll see there's a call out for protective ballards around a piece of existing infrastructure to remain. >> Before you move on for now Mike what what is that? So I think the rest of the stuff you know I think is closer to the
water tank and the cell tower. So that's probably the cell tower equipment. What is the one that's in the middle of that gravel area? I'm not entirely sure. Obviously, the the bulk of the equipment here is electrical in nature. There are some remnants of water related infrastructure as well. Um, as part of
our our site plan application and survey revisions, we'll clarify any of those uh remaining items on the parcel. >> Yeah. So, we don't have any photos or the applicant doesn't have any idea what that is. I mean, they bought the property. I would hope they know what what's on their property.
>> Well, wait. >> Well, wait. Well, wait. So we yeah we want to clarify when he comes up but >> we will do that >> and Michael >> the proposed building is going to be one story or two story >> why >> okay so okay
>> the just the proposed building is the building that's there it's already been substantially cleaned up and improved and renovated but >> so the renovations are are just interior renovations that are going to happen >> no they're There are pictures that have been provided which show you the existing condition condition of the
building as it's been improved. Um and uh and so the floor space may change inter internally a little bit but the building is not being expanded up sideways left. >> Yeah. But internally you're going to because you said you're going to have a flex space. So there will be
>> right. How much office versus how much storage? >> But everything's going to be inside. >> But everything will be inside the existing parameter of the building. Okay. >> Yeah. So, maybe it might be more a little bit more beneficial for the
applicant to come up. I I get you have eight parking spaces, Mike, and you want to acquaint us to what the site is, but I think we need to know like what's the proposed use on the site and then what >> Okay. >> You know, makes >> give more context to the board. >> Yeah, good idea. >> It's a little hard to follow. There's
multiple things on here so it's not clear. >> Let's do that. Let's have You want to have Brian come up with >> Yeah, I'm fine with that. Absolutely. >> Interrupt for the moment. Brian, >> you swear the testimony I'll give will be the truth, the whole truth, nothing but the truth. So, >> state your name for the record. Spell
your last. >> Brian Portoa. P O R T I L L A. >> You could sit down or stand, whatever. Was that with an I or a Y? I'm sorry. I Thank you. >> And you're the uh managing principal of
the of the applicant. Is that correct? >> Yeah. >> Okay. Let's answer the one question that we were >> You got to swear me. >> I did. >> Yeah. >> You were still in New York when you were sworn. >> Yes. Thank you. Sorry.
Um, so that small uh I guess figure on on the uh on the survey there is a concrete pad uh with a large pump for the previous water flowing system for the the water
tower. There's two of those. There's one on the I guess the southerntherly side with in the stone area and then there's another one that says WC equipment behind the water tower. >> So those aren't being used? >> They're not being used. No.
>> Do you have any um intention of removing them or >> I did that was one thing that just didn't get done. I just kind of left them. They're old relics, you know. I'm like didn't want to destroy them. You know, I'll find a new home for them at some point. and and remove them.
>> I mean, if the water tower is not active, is there like why can't you remove them? >> I can. >> Okay. Is that something the applicant you'll agree to as a condition of approval if the board acts favorably? >> Yeah. >> Okay. >> And then can you provide us some clarity on the cell tower leases your
understanding since you purchased the property? >> Yeah. So, the cell tower lease is 40 years 15 of which have expired. So, 2050 is the uh you know the termination date
>> or extension. >> Okay. So, and you would can you provide a copy of that for the board's record so it can become part of this potential approval? >> Yeah. >> Okay. So, and I guess the question that I also think you know there's a lease for the cell tower equipment on the
water tank, right? But I imagine the water tank especially that since it's not in use by the water company anymore, there's going to be a useful life on that. So, what happens when the water tank starts to fall apart? >> I know they're responsible for the
upkeep of the tank. >> The cell carrier. >> Cell carrier. Yeah. This is uh the broker, I guess you would say, is American Tower. And so, they're the ones I deal with with, you know, in regards to the lease legalities and things like that. So once
it needs I mean it's pretty well kept but you know over time I guess you know another coat of paint. I did address that with them and they said that's I looked at the lease and it was a part of uh their obligation.
>> Is the lease with just one cell company or is it more than one? >> It's was originally Omnioint. It's AT&T and uh it was Nextell I think or now it's Sprint. >> So I think there there's two left
because Nextel is no longer in existence. >> So currently it's two different companies that are leasing space there. >> Yeah. >> Okay. >> There's there was no revenue from it. It was it was sold asis. you know, all the
debts were wiped out for, you know, there was $16 million and um that they were recovering. But so there >> was that a little bit, but how did you get into this property? It was a tax foreclosure, was it? >> Yeah, this is a property I found on on
Krexy. A gentleman from New York bought it at auction. He reassigned it to me. it wasn't super desirable um because you know there's easements there was there was thousands of pages of litigation and
um this was owned by Shant Havnanian he passed away the son assumed it and there was a big tax recovery lean on it um the the big drawback was uh the easement for
the cell tower is $15,000 a here for this, you know, for this property as >> Hey, Bob, I don't mean to interrupt, but I'm not sure what's the financial arrangements got to do with the land use application. >> That's fine. >> I the only technical question I have is
is that if you're saying the the cell tower companies are responsible for maintenance of the water tower, correct? >> What if they don't? What if it needs it? You're the owner. You're the applicant coming here for a use variance. >> So, if the cell tower company doesn't
>> do what they're supposed to do and the tower is crumbling, >> will you agree to maintain the tower? >> Yeah, I mean, that's why I addressed it with them. You know, I I reached out and, you know, I looked at the lease and I reached out because, you know, if it does require maintenance, I need to be
prepared to, you know, I build, I fix things, I do things. And so, you know, I was kind of eyeing it up saying this is a big project. So, I looked into it and it turns out they they are responsible. If if they if they don't, you know,
um step up and and handle it, I'm going to have to, right? >> Well, I guess the question is if the board would act favorably on your application as a condition of approval, would you agree to >> Yeah, I I I that has to be in 100%.
>> I don't see how he could refuse. He's the owner of the property. Well, >> we're hearing testimony about lees and they're responsible, but we don't they're not before the board, right? >> So, that's why I'm asking. >> Sure. >> And this is a little atypical situation.
Most times it's owned by operating utility company or a municipality and it's in their best interest to maintain their infrastructure. You know, being that there's an entity that no longer operates the water tower, you know, that's where the board's coming from in that regard.
At least by stepping forward, Brian has improved the situation. Now you have an active owner who is seeking to make the property functional. So anyway, continuing is to what what other question are there any other questions at the moment? I I'm going to ask Brian
to come back up to testify to something the TNF letter about the proposed uses. >> Yeah, the use. >> Sorry. >> Yeah. What are the propos what what is what what are you asking to have permission to do on the property?
Um, so you know, small small business, small trade business, uh, no retail, not a huge amount of traffic, you know, small business owner myself, and, you
know, um, I see the the need for, uh, for spaces for small businesses, trade businesses, flex space, and that sort of thing. And it's just laid out ideally for it. There's parking in the front. There's, you know, the building.
Um, and it was traditionally used. Uh, so that that's the use. >> Your ideal use, your perceived users are tradesmen. You mean uh contractors, plumbers, electricians, um, home improvement people, building
people, people such as yourself or whatever. >> Flex spaces because you see it used both as an office and as a storage facility. Is that correct? And it would only ever be one >> there would only ever be one one user. Yes. And the building wouldn't accommodate more than one user in a
functional way. So you agree that there'd only be one tenant at a time using using the property. Is that correct? >> Can we get a commitment on types of vehicles? I mean, we don't want, you know, obviously 18 wheelers aren't going on this property, but >> Yeah. We're at this point we're uh we're
applying for those type of uses to be permitted. providing that the board is satisfied that the that particular user is going to be using in a proper way. >> Do you have someone in mind? He has someone in mind at this point. So I just want to sort of say that while we're
asking for flexibility in in other words if >> the tenant he has in mind for some reason doesn't proceed or two years from now decides that they want to move to a larger facility that he could replace it with not exactly the same user but a plumber or he can replace it with
electrician. But I think for the board to understand the use, they need to understand what type of vehicles >> Yes. >> potential to go to the site. >> All right. And part of that though is that it would be subject to what I'm suggesting and and we can certainly go
into it further if you like, but is that we could address those issues more thoroughly at site plan and and at site plan because this is bifurcated. We're simply looking at uses tonight. But if that's not >> if you if you want to start to limit some things tonight, that's fine, too. >> Yeah. The only concern Yeah. The only
concern with soon as I heard fleet vehicles, my tentacles went up. The uh because a definition of a fleet vehicle can be anything from a a SUV or a car to an 18-wheeler, you know, you can or or something, you know, something that or
or a half truck, you know. So, so the space and I'm I'm there's some conversation going on over there, but I would assume the space because of the width of that driveway and the positioning of vehicles and moving things around. Even though you do have that 40 foot wide space, it might be a
challenge to have a larger vehicle. So, you probably would have to minim like limit the size. It would have to be limited to the size of the vehicle over there. >> We've had pickup trucks, vans. Yeah, we've had issues in the past where bigger vehicles go into a property and
have to back out and then block >> Yeah. >> block the road. So, it would have to be something that can go in and turn around so it can circulate. >> So, wait, there was a picture put up there as to a a theoretical vehicle for a moment ago.
No, somebody just put up a van picture. I mean, that's I think the concept of what you're saying is you'd be talking about personal cars, you're talking about uh pickup trucks, you're talking about regular size vans, maybe a box truck once in a while, but that probably is more for delivery. Would you agree?
>> Yeah. >> Than than for use of the contractor. >> It's more so tools, uh, tool storage, and then, you know, some administrative, um, that's that's pretty much it. you know, some material.
Uh, it's pickup trucks. >> Would you agree as a condition of any approval that um, you know, the only types of vehicles permitted on the site would be cars up to pickup truck size and um,
that's >> whatever uh, box truck for deliveries, >> right? >> Yeah. Yeah, I would think I think contractor vans and things like that are fine because they can get in and turn around. >> UPS. >> Yeah, UPS is a good uh >> Brian, are you also considering a
workshop in that building? >> I'm sorry. >> Are you are you going to consider a workshop in that building for yourself? Like if you get a kitchen cabinets and you build them, >> you know, you would need a workshop to do certain jobs, right? So, if you have flex space and you rent it, you'd still
want to have a shop and you'd want to have your office for your customers coming in to see you. >> Yeah. >> So, you know, consider that while you're here. >> Um, you know, I'm here for the the
board's recommendations, you know. Um, >> well, you tell us what you want. >> Yeah. So, it doesn't quite work that way, but I Yeah. So, um, you know, I don't know what what how the the board feels comfortable tonight, but it might
be beneficial for the applicant to maybe carp up a statement of operations and intended users and have so we have a framework that it's not, you know, we're going in circles with the testimony. Uh, you know, I think it was trade contractor, landscape contractor or flex
space. Um, I'm concerned about the landcape contractor business because we've had a number of those and there's, you know, outdoor storage for bulk materials for heartscapes and things like that. Landscape contractors do snow plowing. They might be operating during
storms 247 kind of thing. Um, is that anticipated? You know, I know you just put it in there, but like >> uh well, there needs to remain a 24-hour right away for the cell tower access, any repairs, maintenance, so there can't
be anything stacked up and in the way of that? >> Yeah. So, are you saying you still want to have a landscape contractor operate from the site or that something you're ruling out? >> Not likely not landscape. It would be more contractor. >> Well, that's your preference. But here's
Charlie's landscapers also have trailers and even though you're say that you'd be okay with smaller vehicles when you put the trailer on it's going to be very difficult to you know make turns. So we
kind of have to have a little bit more of a feel where we can draw the line before >> I understand we can go to site plan and then we can >> Yeah. And I I think Bob, it might behoove the applicant to like do a
little bit harder thinking because, you know, there's something from like a mom and pop guy that does plumbing or HVAC and he's got a contractor's work truck versus like an AJ Perry operating from this site, right? There's certainly a lot more fleet vehicles and um you know, I think the board, you know, they're not
always looking to like limit you to a specific number. you know, if you have plans to grow or like, you know what I mean? Like four fleet vehicles. I can see on your site plan there, you got eight spaces, but there's clearly more pavement to accommodate more spaces. So,
I think we want a more comprehensive in a written document. So, that way, right now, we're kind of you're just like relying on the board to tell you, you know, >> right? I think it's hard for it's difficult for the board to vote for a
use variance when they're not entirely sure >> what the use they're >> Christine is here too but I don't >> but also too I'd like to bring up the term flex space I mean that is always like kind of a an alarm bell that's not really what you have here just going to
lease some space so maybe if you know define if they're going to write up something write up something that defines that flex space or just turn it into you know leased garage leaked office space. >> Yeah. >> And then also put in there too. >> Yeah. Get rid of the roof. Yeah. Because because that that that kind that kind of
>> Yeah. From a real estate standpoint, being a person in real estate that that >> brings up like office, you know, brings up big buildings. Obviously, you can't put that here. Maybe just we're kind of mixing up flex space and we're leasing out some garage space and some office
space. And also keep in mind too, there's going to be things within the building from an insurance standpoint that you're not going to be able to do in there. So that's something to keep in mind too as you're planning out what you would like that space to be >> and give it a better vision. >> Well, I know,
you know, I want the space to be kept neat. You know, landscapers 100%. It's piles of mulch, it's piles of soil, it's I'm I have no interest in that. I mean, we could almost X the landscaper out. This is low volume, low in and out. It's
material storage. >> Put some exclusions in because if you don't, you're going to have people come in that will outgrow you and it's your place, right? And you know certain ones even like say I won't name a company but
they keep adding trucks and they adding employees and they get more and more when really you can add a truck two three and have you know customers but you don't want anybody coming in there that's going to crowd you out and you're going to have code enforcement problems.
>> Yeah, that would have to be explained in the lease 100%. It's >> because it makes it easier for us to give you an approval. Yeah, >> we we can we can submit a list of parameters. I think that's what you're asking. >> Yeah, exactly. >> Yeah, you nailed it. >> The ordinance section that does apply is
188-4 which defines uh trade contract businesses and that's what we're looking to, you know, conform with. So, and landscaper would be out and and we understand that flex space is perhaps confusing. We we're not going to have several users, which is normally what you think of in
>> I figured it was too small to do that. We we really meant we didn't know how much storage there going to be versus how much office. >> So that's fine. We can we can eliminate that reference as well. >> Uh with the understanding that we will compile a parameters list to submit to
the professionals of the board. Uh are there any other questions right now or Brian? >> Uh >> he's here. He's not going anywhere. He'll be >> What about your hours of operation for your business? Well, he's not going to be the the tech. Okay. He's not moving
in there. >> Okay. So, anybody that's another thing we need to know hours of operation the perimeters >> part of the perimeters. >> There's an ordinance. I think you can't operate between 6:00 and 10 or 6:00 p.m. and 10. You know, no 10 p.m. to 6:00
a.m. I'm sorry. So, that's a time slot that we would look at, you know. >> Excuse me. You're not going to be in the building at all? Uh, I mean I live I live in How. I live five minutes. >> I thought you were in the office. You're not. >> No, I'm not doing >> Oh, okay. I misunderstood.
>> Yeah, he's he's looking to find a tenant >> workshop. This is all tenants. >> This is a tenant property. >> Okay. Well, I'm glad that was made clear for >> Sorry about that. >> Looking at it differently. >> Yeah, this will be this will be a single user tenant. >> Okay. >> And he has the one in mind which
>> will help us define what we're going to do. >> Mr. G McGawan. Yes. >> Um you mentioned earlier that there is a um tenant in mind. Who >> do you want to tell them a little bit about what you're hoping?
>> Uh it's it's a trade. It's a home renovation. Mike's Handyman Express. Um a local >> I know Mike. >> Yeah. >> Yeah, we all know Mike. >> Oh, that's who it is. >> So that's who you have in mind.
>> Yeah. He uh yeah, I mean most of his vehicles get taken home by uh by the employees. He has maybe, you know, three, four trucks that would stay on site. Um a few
trailers and that's it. So something of a tenant of that nature. >> Yeah. >> Okay. Yes. And a parameters uh a list of parameters would be very helpful to us. Sure. We'll we'll commit to that
>> to narrow things and >> exactly >> make it make it a little tighter. >> Yeah. Because someone like a mics handy like a Mike's would be somebody storing tools maybe some materials. Nothing flammable or anything like that. But like that that would kind of be the you
know for lack of a better way of saying it like an ideal example of a parameter list or you know criteria that you would provide. >> Yeah. Are we having the engineer come back up? >> I would. Yeah, if we can. So, >> I'll hold off other questions for him.
>> Okay. All right. Thanks, Brian. Yeah. Mike come back and pick it up. >> Yeah. Real quick question, Mike. How long do you think your testimony is going to be? Cuz we're getting to close to 8:30.
We may some of us may need to take a break. >> Yeah, my my direct testimony was almost wrapped up. After that, >> you finish up and then we'll >> Okay, perfect. >> We'll say put it on pause then. Thanks. Yeah, just finishing up with the discussion of the proposed improvements
and for lack of a better term, uh the last improvement I was going to mention was you can see at the north end of the site there, there is an area of pavement encroachment into the northerly property that would be removed. And then finally, I was just going to simply touch on utility service. We we
mentioned the incoming overhead line that generally runs along that northerly property line to service the infrastructure in the rear. The building then is also served by public sewer and water that apart from going through the review was with the professionals. That was
everything I had direct. So if it's in you'd like to take a break. >> No. First Charlie. >> Yeah. So, um I think you know we need to have a more clearly
defined operation statement with like here's the type of I know we're saying plumbers and you know uh HVAC and that kind of stuff but you know on the site plan here you show eight parking spaces. I can clearly see there's more payment to accommodate more parking spaces. Um you know we would just want to have a
framework on what's the maximum extent that like you're anticipating any type of tenant. seems like Mike's handyman. Um, you know, you should be able to sit with him and say, "What do you have? You know, what do you intend to grow to?" I think one of the concerns that the boards always have with these kind of
uses is, you know, every business starts out as I'm doing this and then, "Oh, maybe I could do a little bit more. If I get this piece of equipment, maybe I could do a little bit more." So, that's always the concern is does the site start out as one thing and then the use and the user spirals into something else. So, um, having something as a
written document just makes it easier for the board to put it in a resolution. So, we know and future owner, uh, owners of this property and operators know what they're tied to. Um, I also think, Mike, you need to take a look at the fire bureau's memo because they had some questions regarding the
ingress and egress, you know, appropriate widths. Um, I think you also need to take a look at the gravel area on the site south of the building and see when that was put in and if that doesn't have any history of being like historically used as such
and it was added by the current property owner. Um, if that's over a quarter acre, that's going to cause issues for you, especially with the driveway expansion. Um, so you're going to need to look into that. Um, I would also just encourage the applicant, right, anything
that could be a peripheral to a trade contractor. If you're anticipating any type of outside storage racks for if it's a plumber for, you know, uh, pipes and excess from a job and things like that, we need to kind of have an idea where that's going to be on the site. The Villages is a long-standing
residential community that's been there for a very long time and uh, is in close proximity to the south part of this site. So I I wouldn't be surprised if you know if those folks are going to be uh concerned with what's going on this site. Um so we just need to have a
comprehensive and a lot of times when the board's asking applicants questions, think about growth, think about what they might want to do. Um not they're not always looking to limit to you. They just kind of want to have a full extent of it. So that way 10 years from now when it's a different zoning officer and
none of us are here, we all know what the actual approval for the for the property is is for. So >> are you potentially suggesting and if you know that's great too that that gravel area was indeed installed outside of permits.
>> Uh so I mean talking with John, I don't know that a lot of the stuff to the building were installed with permits too. We question about whether the roof was replaced with permits. I know that, you know, I'm not saying that the pictures that the applicant provided, obviously, there's been, I think, improvements to the structure like in a
positive way, but um, you know, I think some things were done without approvals and that's going to need to be rectified as after the fact. Um, the gravel, I look at it two or three years ago and I'm not seeing anything prior to that. So, you're going to have to provide me
some pretty compelling evidence that it existed. Otherwise, you're going to have to make good for that. Um, and I would just start thinking about it now, even if this is a bifurcated application. Understood. >> I appreciate it. >> What about signage?
>> We we hadn't anticipated the sign knowing that that's an additional variance and knowing the intended users that there would be no say customer base to the site. The employees would know where they're going and wouldn't need a sign to locate it. Is there an, and forgive me because I'm
just forgetting because I even though I we drive up and down, I just want to make sure. Is there an existing like address like uh numbers or anything at the foot of the driveway at all or Brian? >> Yes. >> Okay. On the >> cool. Um kind of just to go off what Charlie
was saying a bit. um for any site plan. I think um there's uh looks like there's a variety of different fences around the property. There's some chain link fence, there's some wood fence. I think um it might be
nice to see the fencing cleaned up a little bit, uh whatever you're proposing. And you know, we talked about those two um water tower equipments that aren't being used, but there's a bunch of different stuff all over the site. So, if we could see the site um cleaned
up, >> not just illustrator discussed. Um, however you think you're going to handle trash, if a trash enclosures needed, we typically uh require those to be u masonry block. Um, so just things like
that. Yeah, I would, like I said, I think I would just encourage you to the applicant to talk to Mike's uh handyman, but also think of anyone that might fall under a tree contractor umbrella because we've had a couple of those come through. You know, we had a guy that did uh interior renovations for like fire
suppression on commercial and he had, you know, lifts and things like that. You know, I think anything that you could anticipate, we the board wants to know where it's going to be stored and things like that because um well, you know, it's not a site plan yet. I think those kind of go with the use. So, we
need more specifics. >> Okay. Um, >> I think one of Go ahead. >> Because I think we we're >> it would make sense for us to get all this together and come back obviously and not just continue, you know, for the evening. But with that said, uh, one of our our concerns are is because of the
shape of the property, obviously we can't comply with buffering and so forth. uh one of the previous approvals in fact uh addressed the buffering uh and they were required to put 13 trees on the residential side of the fence um
if they were going to proceed or show that it was rejected by the community. Um looking at the picture it seems like those trees may have been installed uh along that one section there. I don't know that to be true, but I am saying that, you know, it it was an issue that
was previously addressed and I hear about the fencing and the mismatch and things like that. >> Well, that would be brought up at, you know, if we went to a site plan. >> Well, and I understand that, but I but I do want to get at least a sense from the board that it is understood that we can't possibly comply with the
buffering. I mean, the property at one point is only 50. >> No, I I kind of >> So, you know, we're going to be relieved from that. Okay. >> I I get it. and also like the length of the road and things. And yes, we uh Mike and I talked before, Mike is going to or his office is going to reach out to the
fire people and talk about how how do you get the fire truck in and so forth, but don't forget it is an existing facility and the things that are most likely to cause fire problem are already there. So obviously, you know, all we can do is improve the the situation. Uh
the situation itself already exists. >> Uh Mr. McGowan, listen. Um, normally we get all the testimony in and then we open the public, right? >> But we have somebody here from the public. I think it would be a good idea to at least let them
>> give us their take so that way you can hear it and then you can address it next meeting. >> Sure. Absolutely. Let's do it. >> So at this time I'd like to make a motion for open the public. >> Make a motion to open. >> Second. >> Second by Mr. Burrell.
The chairman has opened the hearing up for members of the public to ask questions or comment on this application. If you would like to speak, please come up to the podium. You will need to provide your name and address and you will be sworn in. >> Good evening. >> Good evening board. >> Hi.
>> First, we'll get you sworn in and >> swear and affirm the testimony you give will be the truth, the whole truth, and nothing but the truth. >> Yes. Please state your name for the record and spell your last. >> Shan Gaffne. S H A W N. G A F N E Y. >> Thank you.
>> Okay, it's all yours. >> I'd like to state also I am from 565 Woff Mills Road which is directly across from the property. From the window of my property I can see Oh yes. Move a little bit more to the left. So this is First
Financial Bank. If you go a little south, that is my house. So, I can see across to the driveway. I know when somebody's making a K turn in their driveway because they're going the wrong way in Wyoff Mills Road. I'm familiar with the
property. Um I to my understanding this variance is coming forward due to concerns of children climbing the water tower because it's prim because it's primarily a vacant property other than cell carriers coming to maintain it. every once in a while and that is what
encouraged a variance for active use. I'm familiar with the story at the Starbucks at the corner just past NJ Transit. There's no need to scroll all the way down to it. Just understand there is a Starbucks at the corner. There was conversation about the children going to the water tower and at
the baseball field that's vacant right beside it. Um we at W uh 565 WOFF Mills Road do encourage that the site be actively used. We also encourage that the cell tower still remains. Uh internet in this area is already pretty
bad when it's a cloudy day and uh nowadays you know when there's snowtorrms everyone has to move to Zoom whether you're going to school or whether you're working office work. So, it's very important that this infrastructure stays and if possible is expanded, but I understand that's not
part of the conversation, but it should definitely remain. Um, as for its use for a contractor, we're also familiar with Mike's handyman. We don't mind him being across the street. Um, we will leave it to the board about concerns about egress and
outgress and site plan concerns. We do have the same concerns, but we understand that you are the ones with the authority at the end of the day. Uh we do not mind once again if it is an active site, but please emphasize the fact that it is to keep children from entering the site illegally. Concerns
about fencing should answer to that. Concerns about lighting should answer to that. Concerns about surveillance should answer to that. And uh yes, children should not be encouraged to go to this area. That's all. Thank you very much. >> Thank you. Thank you. Okay, Mr. McGowan, I think that's
>> we had a first. We Yeah, we'll close. So, anybody else? >> Okay, motion. >> Second. >> Very good. >> And Marie Pat on the second. We are now closed. So,
I think it was good that we had Okay. One thing, we have a date, a return date >> and without further notice. >> We do that. >> What was that? >> Can we have a return date without further notice? >> Yeah, we'll get to that in a minute. Um,
>> thanks. >> Yeah, fire department. >> Yeah, >> the engineer brought up that he was going to go over the fire or it could be done. >> That was my initial plan. I think given the discussions it would make more sense to come back as we said with a more complete response. >> Okay.
>> Right. >> Yeah. kind of if we know an idea who's going in there, then we can kind of >> work around that. Okay. Uh Lisa, I guess we're looking at a date. >> Uh March 23rd has two cases on. Um April
13th has two cases on. April 27th has nothing. >> We do it sooner. Do we do one of either late March or early April? Well, will we fit? I don't you know, if if it looks like they're going to be busy that whole >> were the days that you gave her gave us as options. thought we had to take a
look at >> March 23rd. And >> what about April 13th? >> Was April 13th an option or No, >> I think she said I didn't catch the date, but she did say early April. >> All right.
>> April 13th is an option. Let let uh the professionals look over because they know more of the applications. So we'll >> Mr. Chairman, if they came back April the 27th, they could come on first. If
you put them behind two people, they're not going to get hurt. Well, >> so the the 13th I you have one application on that could be time take some time on April 13th. >> Well, if it's going to take some time we have them go first.
>> Charlie, you think that's feasible? >> Yeah. And what I can do is I can look at some of the pro board's prior approvals for like trade contractors type of uses and maybe give that to the applicant so they can kind of see what uh you know prior users might have agreed to just to
give them a framework of what the board's looking to and that might help them streamline it. Uh and like I said um it looks like you have more space for parking there, Mike. So, you know, think about how many you need for the office and think about how many you need for fleet vehicles and back into that and,
you know, assume some growth along, you know, within reason with what the site can accommodate. Don't necessarily hamstring the applicant to, you know, four if there's six or eight that could accommodate with some additional vehicle parking for employees. >> Perfect.
>> Well, that'd be great. So, April 13th. >> Okay. We will we need an expiration date new expiration date. Do they need to renotice? >> March 31st. >> So Bob, will you carry till the end of April? Sure. >> The current expiration is March
>> March 31st. >> March 31st. So now it'll be April 30th. >> April 30th. Correct. >> April 30th is >> okay. >> Okay. So at this time then we will I'll announce that we will uh reschedu this
application for April 13th with an expiration of April 30th. So we will have you first on the agenda. >> Thank you. All right. >> And I'll work with Charlie and Christine Jennifer as far as that goes. >> Christine, I guess we'll see you back.
>> You will. Thank you. >> You'll see her many times. >> Okay. I just, you know, I we would love to say, you know, tonight get the decision made, but it's it's just too much. >> Agreed. Absolutely agreed. Thank thanks for all the input from everyone,
including the res. >> That was very helpful. >> Okay. Um, in house, >> thank you. >> We have Thank you. Charlie does have did bring some notes tonight, but um I'm
looking at the time. >> Well, I mean, we got we got >> Yeah, he's got a voracious appetite for >> Charlie. I mean, it's, you know, we're good. Nick, do you want to do it before the meeting? The only issue with before
the meeting is some of us are coming from work. >> I know Jose's coming from work. I'm coming from work and I'm now getting busy. So, >> I'm thinking if uh >> I'm just it just sometimes, you know, we think it's going to be an early night
and it doesn't turn out. >> I understand. >> And then we're never going to get the the classes in. >> So, okay. >> How long is your Charlie or possible? >> Try to keep it under a half hour if you want to stop.
>> Yeah. Um, what >> does anybody need to take a quick break? Otherwise, we'll start uh 9:15. >> And Mr. Chairman, I have a I guess we won't do it tonight, but for the next one, I have a ethics.
>> Yeah, we want to get Yeah. And what we'll probably do for that one, Andy, is we will to Mr. Varela's suggestion maybe if yours is going to be a little maybe under a half hour we we can meet at 6:30. >> Okay. >> Okay, let's do that.
>> So Andy, should we close the meeting? >> Yeah, >> at this time. >> Well, this is theoretically still open to the public though >> because it's a Yeah, >> it's a quorum of the board. >> I have no problem with keeping it open. Yeah, I would keep it open >> and if they want to listen to Charlie
for the next 25 minutes, the public can decide turning off or >> Yeah. No, >> but >> but I do like to see I think it's good that the public gets to see that we're doing more than just sitting here for the meeting. Okay, Charlie.
>> Sitting here looking good. >> All right, I'm gonna >> I got some slides. I'm gonna send them to John real quick. Hopefully you can open them up and pull them up. Did you know he was right? >> I thought he was the way it was explained like he was.
>> That's what I thought. >> I mean, the questions I was generating was that he was the tendant and maybe he would go a workshop and he was the >> He said that in the beginning. >> He says, "I'm like
So like >> I'm addressing a little until I realized he is too. >> That's why he said to him landscape landscaper just keeps building out. He gets more pickup trucks and then he gets
more wagons. He needs more lawnmowers so he needs more trailers. >> You know, but that could >> actually. Yeah, that might be helpful. We uh Although I might start talking really fast
that first >> he should have been a good part of that has taken >> it's got to be said was anchor So 200 was an acre, >> but that includes that long drive. So
the part of the usable space is only 200 by 100. >> Okay. When I asked him, you know, was it 30 feet in the beginning or 60 feet in the beginning all the way to the rear? He said 659 ft. And I said, "Well, how
much acre is that?" And he says, "Areal together?" >> Yeah. All together. But first, >> the first what is it 400 ft are just that narrow drive >> and he needs
a minimum of 20 ft he's got to use for in and out traffic >> and I don't think there's enough if he puts stone I don't think there's enough >> that that gate parking in when I looked at that water tower came over back I
didn't see any no parking behind You want to go back to the beginning? >> All right. >> Okay. Go ahead. >> All right. We'll get into it. So, John, if you go back to the beginning. All right. So, a lot of these slides are from uh D. They give stormwater training to all the different review professionals uh for the state of New
Jersey. So I've stolen a bunch of slides and kind of paired it down. So uh where do we come in the process? Right. So each uh township is required to enact a stormwater control ordinance which models the state stormwater management rules and uh we kind of come in right around this spot. Review and analyze the
development applications in accordance with the stormwater control ordinance. So applicant submits the stormwater management report. We do all the review of that, make sure it complies with the regulations and make a recommendation to the board whether or not it does uh comply. And then the last thing is, you know, probably one of the most important
is once something is built, you know, it's only as good as these uh systems are maintained. You know, I'm sure everyone has a stormwater basin in a development nearby and can see, you know, trash, you know, by the control structure which can uh impact how the the basin functions. So, next slide,
John. Um the big components of the storm water management rules is you have to provide a groundwater recharge requirement component. Um you also have to control qu uh quantity. So that's the volume of runoff and how quickly it leaves the site. Um you can't just you
know back in the day you could storm water management was let's get it all in pipes and get it to a stream as quickly as possible. But when you have 50 properties doing that along a stream, the person at the end of the stream is getting all that runoff and uh you know getting flooded. Um we also have to do
quality control. So that's um basically helps to manage nutrients loads coming in from fertilizers putting down on the grass, trash coming from the road uh to make sure that's not going to downstream water uh bodies. Um green infrastructure requirement, that's something that's new
that was enacted a couple years ago. You can't just have a grass bottom detention basin where you just control how how the volume of water discharges. It has to have an infiltration component so you can refeed the the groundwater aquifer. Uh and then like I said a big component
is the maintenance of these facilities. Next slide John. So this is very basic. I'm sure everyone going back to fifth grade science uh with storm water and runoff. You know the hydraologic cycle. Um storm water is just runoff that uh generates and hits the ground and then
it it um you know doesn't go into the groundwater. It gets discharged over land uh to downstream areas. Uh what what factors into how much runoff leaves the site is you know density of vegetation, soil, slope, surface runoff,
groundwater. You know a 50 acre farm is going to generate much less runoff to a downstream property than a 50 acre paved parking lot. Um you know there's uh various ways that runoff can leave um the site. It can either be generated to
storm water runoff run downstream. Some of it hits the soil infiltrates into the soil. Some of it evapo transpirates during the summer and goes back into the atmosphere. Uh like I said, you know, if you have a very uh flat property with a lot of undulations, there's more opportunity
for water to get into the soils because it's sitting there. Uh if you go to the next slide, John, you know, if you have a steeper property, you know, with maybe less uh roughness, more of that water is getting uh sent to the downstream water bodies. Uh this is just two separate examples.
So you can see there's a lot of prec precipitation falling on a, you know, densely wooded site. Uh there's not a whole lot of runoff being generated from that because you have a lot of opportunity for it to go into the soils and then some of it to evapo transpirate. And then what happens when you make it a urban city, right? there's
much less room for things to go into the groundwater and much less uh you know natural vegetation and and grass to to promote evapo transpiration. So it all ends up going to your uh downstream water bodies. Uh so in summary what's the impact of
development? You have increased runoff volume uh and the rate at which it discharges uh to downstream water bodies. You can have degraded water quality if you don't have proper um you know um infrastructure to capture sediment nutrient loads. Uh and then
also right you have a 50 acre farm uh you know a lot of that water goes into the groundwater feeds the aquifer so that like farmers can have a natural pond to use it for irrigation purposes. Now if you put a 50 acre parking lot all that water that was going into the
aquifer is no longer you know into a pond that a farmer can utilize for irrigation. it's all going to a downstream water body. Um, this is the D and our stormwater control ordinance of a major development. So, this this is what triggers compliance with the
stormwater rules. In general, it's uh any site that is disturbing uh one or more acres. So, that's disturbing a soil on the site. If you were just milling and repaving a parking lot, that would not necessarily class class classify as disturbance. um or if you're creating more than a
quarter acre of, you know, they added all these different terms in uh 2022 to the stormwater rules. It used to just be impervious surface. Now there's regulated impervious surface, regulated motor vehicle surface. So uh it doesn't matter if you um have a paved parking
lot or whether it's grass that you park 500 cars on, they treat that as being impervious surface, a regulated motor vehicle surface. So, you can't just um buy a property and then have people parking all over the grass and say, "Oh, well, it's not impervious surface cuz it's not paved." They they don't let you
treat it like that anymore. So, anytime you're over those thresholds, you have to comply with the stormwater rules. Um the big components of the stormwater design and review is um there's three separate storm events that you um you're
required to design for. The two, the 10, and the 100red-year storm. Uh, and basically all it is is saying, you know, for a hundred-year storm, it's not necessarily saying that you're going to have that rain once every 100 years. All that means is you have a 1% chance in a
given year of that storm happening. So, um, you could have 200year storms happen in the same year or the same month. It's just a statistic probability of saying it. So, those are the storm events that that we're required to uh design for.
Um, every municipality or county in the state of New Jersey have different rainfall intensities because we all have a little bit different microclimates. So, this kind of just shows you for like Mammoth County, what are rainfall intensities for those different storms relative to the other counties. And you could even drill down further. There's a
map and you can go specifically for Hal Township and it'll give you to the hundth of a of an inch of rain what you need to design for. Um, and then a couple years ago the state increased the standard. Uh so now with resiliency instead of just designing for year 2025
or 2026 you have to design for projected increasing rainfall intensity in year 2100. So you're adding some factor of safety. Uh this is just a chart to show you for each storm event uh how much projected like increase in rainfall. Um so for for Mammoth County for instance
right now um for year 2100 the 100red-year storm is approximately 26% uh more volume than what the current day is. So you know everyone's designing not for what exists today we're designing now for what's going to happen in the
future. So act added factor of safety uh runoff quantity control. Um there's a couple different ways that applicants can address that, but what most folks end up doing is um you're required to reduce the peak rate of runoff. So that's the um peak flow from a site uh
to 50% for the 2-year storm, 75% for the 10-year storm, and 80% for the 100red-year storm. Um that's another added uh factor of safety when you're doing this design. It's not just merely um matching the existing condition. And you actually have to reduce to
overcompensate for some of that quality control. Um this is uh anything that's creating over a quarter acre of regulated motor vehicle surface. So pay parking area you have to provide um 80% total suspended solid. So um old systems
you could just have a detention basin with an orifice common with the bottom of the basin and flow was just continuously flowing out of that basin at a control rate. What you ended up finding was a lot of trash would go through there. A lot of nutrients from fertilizers would go to the downstream
water bodies. You'd get algae blooms and you know coastal waterways and things like that. So um you have to remove those those nutrients in the solids from the water so it's not impacting downstream water water courses. Uh it's just a one 1.25 ines over two hours is
what that design storm uh for water quality purposes. Uh groundwater recharge, same thing. If you have a site that's completely 50 acres of uh farmland and now you want to make it 50 acres of parking lot, there's a deficit. There's a spreadsheet you put
in all the numbers and it tells you what your annual recharge deficit is. And they have to design their storm water management basin to basically infiltrate a certain amount of water so that way you're replenishing the aquifer um you know uh and not impacting you know farm
properties and things like that. Mr. Ryan, you got a question? >> Yeah, just real quick. have a snow factor. >> Uh so that is a good question. So that's not necessarily addressed. Um it does generate runoff. I think generally the
consensus is uh that happens much more at a natural controlled rate if you have a foot of snow. It's not you're going to get a 100 degree day and that's all going to be um transformed into storm water runoff. Uh so it's not necessarily
covered under the rules. Um really it's it's the storm events the two the 10 the 100redyear storm uh you're designing for a certain volume over 24 hours. Um usually snow is going to melt much longer over 24 hours. I think the in the
the thought is if you can design for a rain event that happens in 24 hours and control that when a snowstorm happens uh you're mitigating for that. So, >> I'm I'm sure there is a calculation that tells you a foot of snow is two inches
of rain. You know what I mean? It's like when you put ice or water and you make it ice, the volume it expands. It's not necessarily the same volume. So, uh >> yeah. Um, so like I said, you can't just now
have like a grass bottom detention basin. That has to have an infiltration component. So a lot of times we'll see the sand bottom infiltration basins. Uh, there D now also pushes pvious pavement. Um, they also push um bow retention basins. So like rain garden type of
infrastructure. It's all to have some ecological benefit to it. Uh this chart just shows you the different kind of BMPPS. Like I said, most of them that we're seeing on sites are uh sand bottom infiltration basin, some pvious um pvious pavement um by
retention systems. Uh on homes we will see dry wells. Um drywalls are different than um like an underground infiltration basin that you'll see on a on a commercial site. These are generally for smaller storm
venture water quality storm. It's um we'll we'll more so see these on like single lot subdivision uh single lot development, you know, someone building on an earthized lot. It it's meant to mitigate that small storm um but doesn't necessarily trigger the requirement of
of a major development. Uh this would be uh porous pavement. So um everything that lands on the pavement kind of goes through an open graded asphalt down to a stone storage base. On the right hand side, there's an outlet control structure that has um basically
uh a hole in the side of the box that regulates how flow can go through that box to a downstream water body. Uh this would be a bio retention basin. So, so same thing, it's coming into uh a hole in the ground, but you have to now put
in soil and plantings to help uh you know get some added factor safety with uh some of that water feeding the trees and not going to the downstream water body. Um what's the last one? And this is your typical sand infiltration basin. And you can see you have to store each
storm event to 1000year storm without overflow into your um control structure. And then you can see this is probably a good example here. Basically, there's just a hole in the box. Sometimes it could be a 3-in hole. Sometimes it could be a rectangular opening in the box. And
then that just controls the rate at which flow will flow out of the structure and down to an outflow pipe. Um with this water quality design storm like I said um you have to store you know up to for an infiltration basin up
to 2 ft of water infiltrated into the soil. So when we get those small storm events you're not getting your trash and your like fertilizers going down and out the control structure. It's either depositing and getting filtered through the sand into the groundwater or it's laying on the surface here and then you
know an HOA or a developer can come through and you know scarify the sand and remove any debris and this is just a cross-section of the control structure right so sorry I didn't mean to get you in the head with the laser pointer but uh >> blind >> as as water increases right you don't
have any discharge because there's not any opening in the box when it gets up to this level now it starts going through this, you know, orifice at a controlled rate, you get a larger storm event, you have a bigger opening in the box, more flow can come out of there. And then if you get a, you know, a storm
event above the 100-year storm, right? You're not required to control that for for the stormwater rules. So then that would overflow into the top of the structure and then out the back through a cover pipe down to a stream. Uh, and I think this is probably the
biggest, most important with all basins is the long-term maintenance and the D is pushing this. Uh, I'm sure, like we said, everyone's seen the control structure where there's supposed to be a hole you can see here and there's a mound of, you know, trash. I've I've seen uh on a site in Upper Freehold
where you know um a Chinese food tray the plastic top of that got stuck on top of the hole and it was holding two feet of water in the basin just cuz it was on top of the So someone's got to be maintaining these to make sure that water is flowing and there's a way for it to to operate properly. Um you can go
John you know so anytime you would see you know standing water you know signs of uh like wetlands vegetation growing that would be an indication that a basin's not functioning properly. Um a lot of the new things now like I said
they're p pushing rain gardens if you we're not going to see I we would not see this in how I would be very shocked. So up in like, you know, uh, newer at Kobokin, they're putting ring uh, green roofs on the top of structures. Uh, that's very costly. So most developers are not doing that. You know, if you're
doing a 30story high-rise, you know, you can afford to put a green roof on top of the structure. Most of our areas down here, we have enough land where they can accommodate that. >> Wonder if I put one on my roof. >> Yeah. And and that's thing too. So like um some towns have like requirements
that the roof has to be white instead of black. So the water that's leaving the the roof isn't you know 150 degrees in the middle of the summer which can like impact the water quality. Uh and this is just kind of showing you like you know telltale signs that a basin's not uh
operating properly. Most most of these stormwater basins uh you have a you know a storm event 72 hours later the basin should be dry. There shouldn't be any water. So, if you see standing water, you see wetlands vegetation, uh there's definitely a sign that either it's not
being maintained or, you know, hopefully not, but uh I've seen some older stormwater basins where the design is just not not right, but um I'd like to think we do a pretty good job uh in How Township. You got another slide? That's it. All right. So, that's it. That's
like really the high level. It's it's really on uh no matter what board you are in the state of New Jersey, it's on your professionals to to do the due diligence with the reviews. It's all stormwater modeling. So if you put
garbage inputs, you get garbage outputs, right? So that's where I come in. We look at all the details. When you see there's 10 comets in a storm water, it's uh if you look at each one of those individually, they probably don't move the needle, you know, significantly. But when you have 20 of those and they all
add up, it it makes an impact. And you know, I know for How Township, we have had some developments uh you know, I know Rich, you live over in the Pine View Estates where there was a development that was >> Yeah, it was it was approved um under
Wall Township and later absorbed into How Township. That basin overflowed into some conveyance system in How Township, flooded some property. So, um, you know, it's all kind of out of sight, out of mind until someone gets impacted downstream. So, um, when we're giving
when it seems like we're giving someone a hard time, it's cuz like at some point someone could get hurt downstream of it and we're just trying to prevent that. So, that's kind of really it in a nutshell. I don't know if there's any questions, comments. The >> the porest pavement. So my understanding
with the poorest pavement is that it requires ongoing maintenance too because it it um small debris particles, sand, dirt can clog those that pavement and um render it useless basically.
>> Yes. Are there guidelines for that? >> Yes. So there's supposed to be every every site once you get an approved stormware management plan, you have to have an operation maintenance manual. uh they're required to record it as a deed restriction on the property. So that way if they're not maintaining it, you know,
the town can put a lean on the property owner uh and then actually do the work and then, you know, um recoup their cost for doing that. I'm not a big fan of the porest payment. The D folks think it's the greatest thing in the world, but um you know, all that sediment at some
point it's going to get through your asphalt and then it's going to get to your stone underneath it and it's a lot easy to tell if you have an above ground hole in the pit to tell whether there's sediment and debris piling up. But when it's underground, it's out of sight, out of mind. Uh, so if we do see it, I'd
like to see it for smaller storm events and only in parking areas because I'm also not convinced that, you know, that's going to hold up to a tractor trailer coming in and out of a warehouse site, you know, every day for 50 years. So, you do have to put a deed restriction on it, too. So, like a
property owner can't factor in a porous pavement for their stormwater design and then five years from now go mill it out and put in solid pavement. So there's there's some caveats with it, but um sometimes there's there's the policy makers on the castle up on the hill and
sometimes they don't see the real world impact of some of the things. So that's where we try to come in on on that aspect. >> Right. So we don't want to really when you see vegetation like you have there, you don't want to
see that. >> Correct. And um if you live in a next to a commercial property, if you live near a residential property and uh you're seeing that uh you know you can certainly contact the tent of engineering department and um for the most part anything that's been approved
in the last you know 5 to 10 years. Um there will be an approved on and manual that's recorded by deed so the town could go after it. There used to be a time back in the 80s and 90s where a 30 lot residential subdivision, uh, you
know, the guy getting the last home on the on the subdivision, he got his property a little cheaper because he had a stormwater basin on the property, but then what ended up happening is he was responsible for mowing the grass. He was responsible for taking out the debris. It put a real burden on the one property
owner, which the basin basically served the benefit of the entire development. You can't do that anymore. or it's got to either be in an easement that's to an HOA or to the township. Uh our preference is that it's to the HOA or private entity because the township has many basins that are very difficult to
maintain. So we we're trying not to take on any more than we already have. >> Anybody else? >> You kept it under 20 minutes. All right. I talked I talk very quickly sometimes when I'm enthused about it. >> Yeah. Uh John, can you forward this to
Lisa so she can send it to all the board members? >> Yeah. >> Yeah. >> Not a problem. >> Guess we have a motion to >> Yeah. >> I'll make the motion to >> second by Jose. All in favor?