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Township of how Zoning Board of adjustment Monday March 10th 2025 I hereby declare this meeting of the how Township zoning board to be open adequate notice having been given pursuant to the New Jersey open public meeting act in the following manner
first on January 2nd 2025 a copy of said notice was emailed to the Asbury Park Press and the star second on January 2nd 2025 a copy of said notice was hand delivered to the clerk of the township of Howell third on January 2nd 2025 said notice was posted
in the office of the zoning board and on the bulletin board in the how Township municip building 4567 Route 9 how Township New Jersey in accordance with the fire prevention code and for your safety please be advised that this facility is designed with two emergency exits at the
front and rear of the meeting room furthermore smoking is not permitted in the municipal building please take note that this meeting is being videotaped for possible future broadcast on Howell Township TV 77 thank you thank you arene could we have a roll call please Mr
burillo here Mr caner is excused tonight Mr Hughes here Mr odonnell here Mr Rosco here Mr Ryan present Miss scotson here Mr cabakis here and chairman merens here
you have a quorum thank you could everybody raise rise for the Pledge of Allegiance I pledge aliance to the flag the United States of America and to the repblic for it stands one nation under God
indivisible and justice for okay Andy could you swear in the professionals I do record Charles conliff Jennifer beam SP professionals Mr chairman okay thank you um e do we
have any minutes to approve no minutes to approve tonight correspondence I have one thing for correspondence tonight case number ba2 2422 Kevin and Danielle o Conor will be rescheduled to March
24th 2025 if anyone is here in the audience for that application it will be rescheduled to March 24th the expiration date is May 15 2025 okay anybody here for case number ba
24-22 that will be carried till March 24th 2025 and the expiration will be May 15 2025 so that is the first one uh before we start we are going to make one change
on the schedule tonight CA the uh the last case which is a pull application will be going second uh because we don't anticipate that being a long process with that application so we'll go with the first one which is on the count uh
schedule tonight case number ba 19-15 a squankum fire company number one use variance and minor set site plan application to squankum Fire Company number one seeking use variants and minor site plan to construct a 50 by 60
pole building in the rear of the property for vehicle storage in apparis emergency services is not listed as a permanent use within the S one zone the proposed pole barn will be replaced place the footprint of the previous
existing firemen's Memorial on block 49 lot 9 271 squankum Road expiration is May 15 2025 good evening good evening I'm attorney Lane Bano representing Swan right next to your lane microphone
are you able to hear me yeah what was the name again oh that I know but Lane devano I'm an attorney I represent sanum okay Mr devano good to see you tonight hey we have call our first
witness okay okay uh you want to go first okay oh no Tom Tom here yeah our first witness is member of the fire company Tom Matthews you'll be spor in sir can you stand please do you swear the testimony you give will be the
truth all truth nothing but the truth so help you got yeah please state your name for the record spill your last Thomas Matthews M A TT h e WS okay uh Tom how long have you been with the fire company 35 years okay and are you familiar with this project with
the yes okay who is briefly who are some of the neighbors around you around the Mr biviano maybe just stayed for the record uh Mr Matthews position if any in the fire company other than the fact he's been there for 35 okay what position have you held and what's your current position I've held every position in the fire company I'm
currently ex-chief and I'm currently the chaplain of the department okay Excuse Me Andy do we have to swear them in anyway since he's testifying well I did swear he's good okay Mr chair I could probably expedite this if you would like I would love you too okay I don't mean
to step on your toes but not at all go I think the fire department is looking to put up a pole barn behind the existing station to house equipment and things like that so unfortunately for them they're not a permitted use in the zone so they're
here for use variants but let's all be clear I would venture to Guess that a fire department is inherently beneficial I mean I would like them to show up when my house is on fire I'm just going to throw that out there um and this is a necessary Improvement to their site in
order to accommodate equipment inside instead of being out in the elements and what have you um so technically the the application requires a D2 variance because it's an expansion of a non-conforming
use I could see no negative impact associated with putting a pole bar behind the fire department also there's a cell tower on the site but we we require people to look for municipal uh opportunities to collocate
and what have you so they also need a D1 variant so let me just help you out I think the site's particularly suited it's a fire department so the cell tower obviously needs to stay and what have you I don't see any negative impact to
adding a pole barn to add to in order to for them to uh house their equipment I see no impact to the Zone plan or zoning ordinance I see no negative impact I think the benefits of helping the fire department become more efficient outweighs the non-existent negative
impacts so I would submit that the application on its face meets the burden under the statute and I would recommend that the board act in the affirmative okay uh Charlie you want anything to add on an engineering yeah so I just had two
comments and they were really just suggestions um the grading around the entrance into the building was like right at 5% which is kind of at the threshold for like 88 compliance and some stuff so rich Mr defac it's something the applicant can kind of soften just to give them a little bit of
buffer maybe we could just swear in do you swear the testimony you give will be the truth truth nothing but the truth state your name for the record your last Richard DeFalco engineer of the project I would submit Mr chair Mr DeFalco's before us a lot and we accept him always
yeah we accept your credentials based on the recommendation of our planner thank you so as per the board engineer suggestion the slope leading into the garage pole barn for the fire trucks is at 5% and we agree to lower it to four and change so that yeah it's just
someone with a wheelchair they can get in there there's no Ada issues and they got a little bit of extra room to play with if the grades aren't perfect and then um uh just a suggestion like anytime we see these type of uses where you going to be backing Vehicles into a building it would probably be a good idea to throw a Ballard or two on either
side of the doorway is that something we thought about that I spoke to Mr Matthews about that and in the event of an emergency we don't want anything to catch a hose or L we we want no instructions if possible so we'd rather not have the ballards and he they know
how to back up very slowly into the building I don't think there's a specific code requirement in this type of instance it was really a suggestion suggestion which under normal circumstances reir I think does not fair enough want that uh and then uh as far as Stone water runoff there was a
Veterans Memorial here that had pavers and concrete and this is basically replacing what was there so um I really don't see an issue with stone water and they are providing some swell grading around the perimeter of it directing it to the existing parking area so I don't take any exception regarding uh impacts
from somewhere to runoff so that's really all I have just for the record we did receive Mammoth County planning board approval since that is a County Road we're sitting on okay the county gave us an approval with no conditions so they wanted to as a you know inherently beneficial use and they saw the need for it so okay uh John do you
want anything to add before we go to public I'm good thank you okay thanks wa does Mr Matthews have anything you want to add before we're no you're good I think we're good okay yeah I guess our planner took the words out of your mouth right essentially yeah yeah I'll make a
motion to go to public Mr chair do I have a second second amarie all in favor I ien the board will now open the meeting to the public if you'd like to come up and state your name and your address do I have a motion to close
motion close second next Tom all in favor I okay closing comments we uh We've presented what we have um the board and its experts are well familiar with this project I can't
state it any better that's already been stated so uh nothing to add no questions from the board seeing none can I have a motion I'd like to make a motion to approve based on the testimony second
forward I'll second second by Matt I can we have a roll call Mr burillo yes Mr Hughes yes Mr odonnell yes Mr Rosco yes Mr Ryan yes Miss scotson yes and
chairman Mertens absolutely yes application is approved thank you thank you for all your service too thank you thank you yeah baby old efficiency call efficiency my friend Jen jumped in there swung a bat
took care of business always always usually sits on the other side it's so funny no I mean that desk desk sure no it's all good you can see on either one there's mics on both sides there's a mic there's a mic on that side
too yeah great okay so we are the um St John's Drive yes indeed okay okay let me um just read this in on record thank you okay this is case number ba
24-16 Ian and Christa Thompson seeking the bulk variants application of Ian and Christa Thompson as applicants as owner seeking bulk variants approval for recently constructed swimming pool slate patio that was installed 7.12 ft from
the rear property line and 5.22 ft from the side property line relief may be required for a brick fire place which was installed 5.22 ft from the side property line known as premise block
65.0 4 lot 1116 St John's drive and how expiration April 3rd 2025 thank you for that summary Mr chairman and it's Walter Toto on behalf of Ian and Chris thomp and good evening to you members of the board eile and the
board professionals uh so yes Mr chairman we are seeking that bulk variance relief and also to confirm we are seeking relief for the fireplace it was measured at 69 12 inches and I think 60 would be permitted I know it has a removable cap of 7 and A2 inches but
even if that's removed we're still just slightly over okay uh that limit uh this is a un asked for forgiveness application because of the work by the contractor uh depending upon how all the shakes out tonight I suspect we'll be litigating against the contractor for at
least a return of fees to have to appear before this spard depending upon what the board may require us to do but that may not be relevant but just it's an FYI to you uh and the board we do have Mr Cliff's uh report from December 4th of uh 2024 we're prepared to address that
and I I have one witness that's the homeowner Ian Thompson and I would like to call him stand now okay could you be sworn in you s the testimony you give will be the truth the whole truth nothing but the truth to help you state your name for the record and spell your
last please Ian Thompson t h m p s o n uh Ian where do you reside 16 St John's dri and how long have you been at 16 St John's d uh coming up on eight years seven seven years in change seven and change and with whom do you reside uh Chris Thompson my wife and uh two
daughters Lily and Ella okay and at the time of the purchase what if any was the nature of the improvements at the rear yard of the property or in the rear yard uh so the the rear yard when we purchased the home um there were uh kind
of multiple trees there was some ponding that occurred in the backyard um and it was uh really unsightly actually when it rained um we didn't realize that when we bought it the first big rainstorm we had a a bit of a flood the backyard fair enough okay now so at this time what are
the spefic improvements at the rear yard or uh so we have uh the pool we have a patio deck um fireplace we have grading uh we have some um some down spouts that go underneath the ground connect to a box strin so we alleviated the the
flooding uh that was occurring in the backyard um and some drainage to goes to the front Okay and and who performed those improvements uh landscape designs LLC and the pool company was fortunado okay were you aware of the rear yard inside your limitations in the
code of the township of H it was not okay um you recall discussions with the contractor wherein the sidey yard and the rear yard limitations were discussed I don't recall any conversations uh they told me that the uh they were aware of the of what all the rules and regs were
for the township that they' had done work there multiple times and that they would handle all of the permits and make sure that everything was was where it was supposed to be okay and when were the dates of construction so we started in February of 2022 and it ended in July
or June of 2022 and how did it come to pass that you learn that you were in violation of several of the uh limitations regarding rear yard and side yard setbacks it was the uh final inspection uh on the pool um the plan that had been submitted so when we first
got the plans drawn up we had two options we went with uh an option where the pool ran parallel to the back of the home that's the way the pool is set now and also we did per pendicular uh because there was enough for them to do it and they had submitted uh the pool company submitted the plan with a per
perpendicular pool and that's what the inspector was expecting to see when they walked in and it was not there and so when I explained that he said well you're also too close to the to the side and the back uh property line okay and I said oh I said I wasn't aware of that so
that's that's why I came to and that's the Genesis of the application before the board um have you received well let's do this but describe the the fireplace and its height and how you measured it sure um so the fireplace uh it's it's like you said it's 69 and a
half inches tall um I measured it with a tape measure uh from bottom to top and then I measured the cap on top um it has uh as you imagine a box for for the fire and then two kind of side boxes that are lower down for firewood that go theze
and do you uh do you know your neighbors on either side side and to the rear yes are any of them here tonight no okay and what if any have been the nature of discussions if you've had any with your with your immediate neighbors your adjacent neighbors yes I we've discussed
this um actually plenty and they uh are aware of it um my neighbors on the side where the fireplace is is located have no issues with it they have been in the backyard they they love it they think it's beautiful and they actually um you know they think it's very nice um um and
no issues with the place of it and we did talk about you know how the it is a little bit closer than it's supposed to be fair enough and so you mentioned ponding before do you experience any ponding in the rear yard or even in the side yards or front yard at this point at this point no okay don't we're
ponding um and do you have a basement no you don't okay uh was there any filling of the lot uh with any material with any soil during the construction of the in gril pool no they just removed uh soil so they actually exported soil yes from the site do you know where
uh there was a um they were building a uh a development on Five Points Road um at the time and um they exported the dirt there they needed it to fill okay uh and what so to your knowledge what is the drainage pattern uh at the
property not sure what that means in other words this the storm water does it flow from rear to front he's probably not qualified to answer that question fair enough Jen especially when he's like I don't understand the question no fair enough I'll that out there I'll withraw uh Ian
is the timber perola temporary or permanent uh the p on the on the patio is temporary it's a it's not a fixed it's not fixed at anything we I built it with a friend okay all right anything else you wish to related to the board regarding the application no just that you know if we would have known that it
was in violation we obviously wouldn't have done it or we we would have made it we would have moved it in um but we thought we were in line okay thank you Mr chairman nothing further for Mr um did the contractor show you did you give
him the survey so he had to serve it okay yes enough said okay I've been through that so okay uh professionals Charlie yes so I'll just summarize it again right they need relief for the rear yard setback and the side yard setback when a pool
has like a walkway around it the minimum uh setback requirement is 10 ft to the edge of the the patio or the walkway uh to the rear they're uh 7.12 ft to the norly side yard I think it's norly 5.22 ft there's also the fireplace uh that's
on the trying to North this to the left here yeah on the north side of the patio uh you heard Mr Toto on the applicant indicate it's at like 692 in so it's 9 and 1 12 Ines over the 5 foot set back that it is so if it was another 9 in off
the property line it wouldn't require relief uh it would meet the setback requirement we're not talking about a lot here um this is in the R2 Zone there's no impervious coverage restriction in the R2 zone so um you know there's no they can basically build whatever they want
as long as it's not causing a drainage issue on neighboring properties you heard them say that it's been constructed or started Construction in February 2022 looking at Aerials it looks like it was completed in the summer of 2022 so I would open it up to the public and let's hear if there's any concerned neighbors regarding stor water
if there's not I really don't take any exception uh to the relief that's being sought right now Jennifer I'm sure it's not going to be too much right no I agree with Charlie and honestly if you look at the survey the shed on the neighboring property is is like six inches off the
property line so you know I don't I do understand why we have the requirements we have because there are certain sections of town where development this close to the property line creates flooding problems for the neighbor this is not a section of town where we have
that issue happening um obviously if there was a problem my guess is someone would be here so I don't take exception to the request uh as what I would just ask is that in the event that something occurs you know where the neighbor has a
problem like sink a drywell or something like that I'm not asking for that now but in the event that there's a problem between Property Owners if you would agree to a condition that in in that if if that were to happen you'd be okay with doing something putting a drywall in or
something and just so it's in the resolution so that if there's a problem and a resident comes a neighbor comes to John complaining he has the ability to say you agreed to do something about this that's acceptable and I appreciate that but not to belor the point but would you you and Mr K agree to that you
would confirm the nature of the problem and that does in fact exist 100% fair enough I mean I'm not the person to ask I'm more than happy to bill you for it I would say that's probably more of a Charlie situation I think it's an excellent question you know point and it's acceptable and you could have a new
neighbor so you never know so sure sure I think that's a great idea John anything nope i' just like to thank the applicant for coming in and putting in the uh the application and uh we've received no complaints since the installation of the pool so I have
nothing on record nothing to uh to report okay procedure open the public yeah I'll make a motion to open second second all in favor I I okay the the board will now be open to
the public if you'd like to come up and say state your name and your address do I have a motion to close motion to close second okay all all in favor I okay I
guess you're going to have a a lot of a lot of long summary right nothing further I know you have a busy agenda Mr nothing further Mr chairman if I have a question yeah sure how do we not see this until the last final inspection that the pool is in the wrong direction that's a that's a construction
Department issue it's not the resident's fault it's no I'm not saying it right but that's a that's I'm just curious how it got this far that no one caught it along the way and we're happy to answer that Jen if you don't mind can yeah um just you come
to pass where what you wanted originally was something perpendicular to the home but it ended up being constructed parallel I mean I know you're not in construction but it just all of a sudden it happened at the last inspection where you realized gez this thing is not in the right direction well I I mean is the
nature of your question that there would have been inspections along the way and somebody would have seen that this wasn't done and I can't I would think I can't answer that question because there were things like electrical inspections and inspections but I I don't know what they're looking at when they're doing those there's a plan in front of them
but that was the only time that it was mentioned was that on that final inspection so I'm I'm not sure why it wouldn't have been seen prior to that we we went we went along the way I mean every time that there was an inspection because there were probably two or
three uh on the on the um on the plumbing on the electrical on the things before the final that was Mr Ryan uh I could shed some light on that so unfortunately uh building and land use work
independently from each other and the building department uh is more concerned with how is something built where L use is concerned where it's built L use unfortunately is the last one to go out because there's some modifications that some sometimes happen with any permit
that gets uh put before uh the township so we wait till the very end to make sure that whatever was built was built in the manner that it was thus we wait to be the last ones to go out so orientation location those things unfortunately don't get picked up until
the last end of it building department the electrical guy goes out he's all he cares about is that electrical meets electrical code building makes sure that it meets building codes so on and so forth so um it's not a perfect process but it's the one that we have and it's
the one that we've been following ever since and there's you know to go back and forth uh with inspections prior to uh most of the L use inspectors aren't surveyors uh so you know if we tell somebody put it there and we're wrong
then we're on the hook for it so we rely on the professionals at the pool companies to say you submitted a plan you told us it was going to be 10t off the property line we expect it to be there uh the 10t off the property line at the end of the project doesn't always work that way it's unfortunate these
things do happen and that's why we have this process so that's why okay did you have a question Mr Thompson just to Clarity you you guys want wanted the pool and the patio perpendicular to the house or paralleled the way it parall you wanted it parallel we wanted they
submitted it perpendicular submitted it perpendicular corre thank you okay everybody is good so what's the pleasure of the board I'll make a motion to Grant relief it's not his fault the way it happened
and we should uh approve it okay Mr oono has a motion do we have a second Jose with the second I link we have a roll call Mr burillo yes Mr Hughes yes Mr
odonnell yes Mr Rosco yes Mr Ryan yes Miss scotson yes and chairman Martins Mr Thompson I've been down this road as a probably J for remembers 8 years ago when I first joined this board I had the same situation okay deck was
built and bra USS came and said you got to either cut two feet off or you got to get a variance so it is the process unfortunately but I certainly approve and say yes so enjoy your pool thank you very much apprciate thank
you yeah maybe are before we start can we just have it we're going to have a short break sure the board will now take a five minute break and reconvene at 7:38 p.m.
Turkish the meeting will now reconvene okay our already last case for tonight is case number ba 2304 omnic realy
LLC use variant and major site plan application of Micon realy LLC as applicant and owner seeking use variants and preliminary and final site plan approval to construct a
2480 square foot sales office for used car sales as well as a parking area containing 30 stack vehicle display spaces and seven customer parking stalls other site improvements are proposed on
the premises known as block 175 lot 35001 9 945 New Jersey Route 33 expiration is April 1st 2025 good evening good evening Mr
chairman and board members my name is Vince howerin I'm an attorney from Freehold and I represent the app okay my name is John suas I'm the owner of omnicon okay now what Witnesses do you have we can do you want them all sworn in one time
that would be great I was was going to suggest as a matter of fact we normally would John sukus who's the principal of the applicant Christine Kone who is our Planner yeah I've seen her a few times talk up yeah they can't hear either one
of what was your name sir my name is Vince hin Oho John sucus s o u k when you talk just talking to that mic over there this one or that one I well you could talk is that a mic by the way I can't hear so I understand everybody
who that's a mic right okay thank you I'll do my best everybody being sworn in could you all stand you're going to be testifying right okay thanks do you swear the testimony you give will be the truth the whole truth nothing but the choose to help I do I do I do state your names for the record spell your last
John suas s o u k a s Scott Kennel K NN L McDon and Ray Associates Robert S s i v is in Victor E professional engineer Christine Kone c f n e professional planner thank you okay just SW so I take
it your first witness is the applicant yes okay okay it's all yours okay John would would you generally tell the board uh describe the property and describe what you want to do
I purchase the property property to build a use car dealership there I had a already in Howell a use car dealership on Route 9 unfortunately the building was sold so I had to find an alternate location which I purchased this uh uh
lot a couple of years ago and I put together you know with the engineer and the lawyer you know the package to bring it to your attention and you know hopefully approve it okay uh what is on the property currently that
was my question going to be my next question John what's on the property now right now there is a one family house and S an old U floral shop which is not operational it's it's not in a condition
to be to be operated and uh all the and a garage okay by the way if any of you are as old as me you might remember that was Ed quartz's flower shop he was the mayor 50 years ago so I know you're all young people
so you might not remember ited okay John what are you proposing to do uh we proposed a office uh with two uh garages uh for repairing our own cars uh that
will be uh for the orange uh is on the on the display and a parking lot of about you know 30 30 cars and uh and a space for for seven customer
cars okay now are you generally the professionals will address the reports but are you generally familiar with the reports issued by the engineer and yes we went through these yeah and I'm familiar do you recall any specific items that you have that you want uh the
there are some ordinances as far as you know or the display of the cards how far they have to be from the main road what kind of advertisements are supposed to be on the course years mods and all these things we already know the procedure because we obey you know the
ordinance on Route n we never had any citation so we know what we have to do okay the board have any question well the one first thing is the hours of operation of or hours will be 9 to 6
Monday through Saturday Sunday we were closed do you have lights would you have lights there like during the fall late fall where it's going to be dark yeah lights will be in the parking lot you know most likely will be led with a
photo shells they will go on and off automatically okay and I I believe the engineer would testify more with the engineer and the plan yeah I just wanted to get an idea of the hours um Charlie Jen I'll let you go
first so how do vehicles that are going to be for sale how do they get to the site do they come on like a huler do they come there's an auction house less than a half mile away on on each side and we buy them from there and we drive them with drivers you know you know one
C the time okay so there is no holders coming in or out of the so a carch further west on 33 okay so you purchase it from there and then you drive it one by one over to the side I mean I I take like if I buy five cars I take five guys you know I subcontract them and they
drive them to the property so there's no car haulers that are going to be parked on side of 33 there's no space for it for I I understand there's no space for it but my experience is that doesn't matter the car H holders going to park where they Park so our concern is is if
you're bringing vehicles from somewhere else like this this is a friend and it goes with the land so you know we can't anticipate that everyone down the road is going to do business with someone five Lots away which by the way are
still not compliant with their approvals just so you know so what accommodations and I'm asking you but I'm really subliminally asking Mr kennel who will deal with this later
what accommodations do you have if Vehicles come to this site in a large car H holder or big trailers or things like that because you can't prevent it and I have lived it I've lived through it I work in Neptune I've listened to
them tell me oh never will the carer stop on 66 and I drive by it on a regular basis so yes there's not an accommodation they don't care they're going to take up half the aisle they have the drive a which could be a negative impact so I understand you are not really the right person to answer
this I'm sublimit dealing with these guys in the audience this is something we're going to have to deal with when you guys come out can I and Jen do you mind if we injected witness when the issue comes up like this just finish with him and then we can deal with that we can put a pin in that comment I just
wanted to get it out there thank you so that you know he's gonna have to and I see them brainstorming so I'm good can I sure can I apply to your question of course uh it doesn't pay to hire a holder which is you know half a mile
away the auction and to bring it you know it will cost me tremendous amount of money you know for I understand that that's you but as I said this is a use VAR that will run with the land so at some point in the future you may not be
here and someone else may have a different Financial viewpoint on bringing cars with a car hauler and so we need to make sure that these issues are thought through and dealt with whether you're planning on doing that or
not because someone in the future may do it and we all know that there's not a large shoulder on 33 and it could become problematic so that's why we're bringing it up I understand your concern thank well Scott will'll address that but there could be something in the resolution I mean I understand okay
thank you close I'm sorry no I was just trying to keep out of their line of sight because if you can't see what you're saying sometimes I missing I'm sorry okay more questions of John um board members yeah oh is there going to be any service being done to Vehicles onite service
only on our own Vehicles no customers what kind of service like we buy a car from an auction the car tech auction it needs a oil change it needs a new budget it needs brakes this kind of service so you're doing that on site yes full
service that's a little different yeah than a car sales place that's very different there are definitely issues Associated respectfully what kind of like what kind of recycling of this
material do you have planned it will be for oil change it will be a tank there with the oil that we're going to you know discard there and whenever it's getting you know close to food we call the recycling oil company and they pick it up so you're thinking that cars are
going to get brought to this site that could potentially need service repair well the township bordin specifically allows me to do that respectfully you're here for a use variance so what you're asking for you're not allowed to do so if this is
part of what you're asking for if you're proposing that some of these cars are going to need service then I'm uncomfortable with your parking lot being asphalt then the parking lot needs to be concrete because any kind of vehicle storage that has the potential for
anything to leak like you said batteries oil Etc we don't want leak through asphalt we want concrete so the this is a little different than just straight sales with a parking lot with a small office where is the service
going to take place there is a two car garage attached to the office so is there going to be lifts in there yes so this is a little different than we were anticipating yeah I agree in this use
so just to clarify the service that you're doing so when you buy vehicles from cartech right now they're in serviceable condition right they can be driven there there's not major damage or auto body repair Associated to the to those
Vehicles most cars when you buy them they always need something 99% of the time they need some repair that's why the car is at the auction and you know we take the car in there if if it needs brakes we have to change the brakes if it needs uh oil
change as I said you know or any other kind of like a alternate or regulator it has to be repaired before it's been sold okay John is that similar to what you did on Route 9 exactly the same how yeah what's the site in rout n that you say that you operated from do you know
the address or the block 9 rout 9 how Jers 1209 get it I mean my concern is your application doesn't talk about this at all it talks about an office and a used car lot it doesn't talk about auto body repair so I
respect that you think that you know we allowed this in the ordinance but if you applied for it that's one thing but you didn't ask for this you asked for an office and a parking lot I will have the engineer I believe he's this is not really even a question
for the engineer this is a question for your attorney your application is not asking for this use I that's how what you applied for okay I I believe that we were under the impression that part of a used car dealership was getting the cars
ready you know to sell if if I it says no facilities for auto body repair or mechanical repair should be permitted what what's I'm sorry what are you quoting from the ordinance oh I'm sorry so we when we reviewed it and I think
Charli office as well said it complies because you didn't ask for this and so now you're asking for it there's no repair allowed so that's another use variance that you didn't ask for it's two use
variant accept those facilities necessary oh that yeah Chris you didn't read the rest she says accept I'm going to you can read it but accept those facilities necessary for the preparation or maintenance of all automobiles sold
upon the principal use which is what that's what he said he was under the impression as was I that when you have a used caring you can get them ready and that's what he's talking about detailing and service is different yeah go ahead Christine I Christine's been sworn and she's
Christine Kone and you need her qualifications no no we've heard them and I can recite them so so I'm good um so I I think we do have a little bit of an issue here with something that we submitted but I think the ordinance allows it so when I read
section 18889 of the Howell ordinance this is for sales and showrooms for new and used automobiles subsection a e I'm sorry 18889 e reads as follows no facilities
for automobile body repair or mechanical repair shall be permitted to be located on the premises used for sales and showrooms of new or used automobiles except those facilities necessary for the preparation or maintenance of automobiles sold upon said premises and
only where said facilities are clearly incidental and subordinate to the principal use so the way I read that is if you have to repair a car that you went and collected at the auction and you're getting it ready to sell you can do that if I decide oh my goodness I've
been to for 100 planning boards this meeting and I need my oil changed I can't roll in here and get that done because my car is not for sale so that's however we submitted in conjunction with this application um a letter from Mr
sukus which this letter of affirmation is in reference to item 19 of the application checklist which is going through the conditional use standards and on E when he says there will be no facilities for automobile body repair or
mechanical repair on the premises so I think that you need to clarify that on the record because e in the letter we stated says that so I just want the record to be clear because this is part of the application so anybody who reviewed the application documents would see this and they follow a through e
which I believe Were Meant To Be Mr sucas is I want to speak here for you but a through e is the conditional use standards so I think we need some reconciliation on what you intended when you prepared this statement about obious the traffic also I just want to
interject the traffic study also identifies this as a separate maintenance garage so honestly I I understand what's being presented I think the application is not consistent with what you're asking for between the
application that talks nothing about this the traffic study that calls it out separately as a maintenance garage and Charlie I think you even called that out in your letter that that could be a problem with the conditions and now it's we're talking about something else I just think it's a
little messy but they are only for the cars that only the I get it but the application materials are messy it's not clear or consistent so I think there's some clear distinctions that need to be made to the board as part of the
application right so one uh any auto work on the site being only for cars that are being sold on the site versus exactly that's where I think you need to have a that's clearly our understanding we have no problem with that restriction
make it clear that's what he intends yeah so there's that and then I think the second part of it too is um what I'm kind of hearing is the cars that they're purchasing at auction or how that they're bringing to the site that they're then going to sell you know we're talking about like normal maintenance that may be required like uh
oil change or like replacing the brakes so that way you're selling someone with a brand new set of brake pads on a vehicle we're not talking about like completely junked or like cars that need complete rework and and all that kind of stuff right I don't have the equipment to do
this kind of work okay but your conditional I'm Sorry Charlie but your conditional use statement says very clearly there will be no facilities for autop party repair or mechanical repair on premises meaning from outs I mean but that's not clear I'm just saying it's
not clear the the ordinance is not clear your application is clear is what I'm telling you it's inconsistent with what you're telling us I understand what you're saying but what I'm saying is between the application your conditional
use statement your traffic report and this testimony they are not consistent with what you're saying I'm saying it here loud and clear the only repairs we'll do is our own cars not the public
somebody works in and he wants to repair no only cars that we buy but on the application it does have to be clear like our planner said that's what we're trying to get at because I didn't even think about this repair and
so it has to be just you know fine-tuned with that Tom you had a question before I forget yeah Jennifer I have a couple questions what I'm hearing is there there's a place up the street that's another Auctioneer place and I drive by there all the time and I remember I was
on the board when it got approved yes a lot of the cars there are really beat up bad in accidents and crashed in they up there and they auctioned them off and some of them are decent cars I thought when this uh application came this was for retail sales of cars same and if
it's going to be retail is he going to buy the auction cars bring them down there fix them and then retail and sell them or is it vice versa he's they're going to come there he's going to fix them and then you're going to go up to the auction and be sold I think he's getting them from the
bring to his facility and once he fixes he's going to retail the cars on his own property to sell that's my understanding I'm not familiar with all the you know the radiators the transmission fluid the oils there's a separate a whole set of
things to get rid of that material and is I haven't heard anything about that how you going to do it well also then it begs the question if if they need to be repaired how you driving them down the street like I just feel like and the
concrete is what's the norm when we have any kind of vehicle storage outside that has the potential for any kind of leakage we require concrete yes right okay and you know my line of questioning
is like if you think of like an Auto Lenders or something like that right they buy the car from someone else and then they resell it like it's not a typical for them to put new tires on it or for them to put new brake pads on it that's a different level of service versus like you getting something that can't be driven that needs a
transmission completely you know in reinstalled or something like that there's more waste and uh debris associated with like Auto Body Work compared to just Light maintenance on a vehicle so so it would be like 50/50 as far as Sales and Repair because most of
the cars need to be repaired first and then sold yeah so I mean I think we as part of any potential approval we just want to be clear of what the scope of repairs that's being approved with this because uh yeah approval goes with the property
and I don't we don't want to see 10 years from now someone else is moving in here and then trying to operate an auto body shop for outside you know public not just vehicles that are on property so my quick question I'm sorry um so I I've driven past your former site now
that I've put two and two together um you did you do similar repairs yes at that okay and for the car 129 you know we had the dealership for about eight years yeah we did similar work and we follow the whatever the township you
know has and we had a lot of inspectors coming in we didn't had any problem okay thank you and one more thing I mean it doesn't pay for me to go to the auction and buy a junk car because I have to spend so much time and energy to make it
work I rather get a car that's in the work in order and you know clean it if he needs brakes change the brakes if he needs an alternator or something something you know that it's easy to fix and then you know sell it so so it sounds M Mr sukus it sounds like you're
saying that you just want to do relatively minor repairs in order to prepare those cars to be sold corre in a retail s setting just make sure the car is safe before I sell it you're not replacing engines or transmissions and you plan on buying all
of the cars that you sell from this one auction no sometimes we have workings you know we advertise on internet that you know sell your car people come in you know we buy their car and we pay whatever they want and check the car make sure it's safe if it needs
something we have to repair it and make sure you know it can pass the inspection it's a law in New Jersey that says you know when you sell a car it has to pass inspection so whatever we do it has to pass the inspection okay but the majority of what you're saying you're going to be purchasing is from this one
auction you're not going to any of the other auctions Desa Manheim I may go to Manheim you know sometimes but and and how will you get those cars from Manheim cuz that's about what 4 hours away right no it's about 30 minutes away it's a Manheim in bord town bord Town Manheim
is in Pennsylvania right that's a huge origin that's about 4 hours away bord Town yeah that's about 45 minutes away uh and again we drive them you know it's you know we get a few guys and we have the license plates for transporting and we drive them to the
dealership okay at your old dealership did you ever use any um any of those car haulers at your other dealership never never okay all right thank you yeah yeah um Auto
um auto body work like Miner Miner stuff are we spray are we spraying cars we we bring the car to a body shop so you that's off premise right all any auto body stuff is off premise correct okay thank you
Mike Jose when when does the auto body shop work happen in the process you buy the car it comes to the facility you do the oil chain whatever and then if it needs body work when does that
happen I again I rather buy a car that's in a good condition but in case you know there is a Scrat or something you know that needs a body shop I'm going to take it to a body shop after it's been repair okay my point what I'm looking at right
now how do we what he's doing I don't really have an issue with but what Jennifer brought up and I'm concerned that if somebody else down the road Andy is there a way we can stipulate the restrictions I mean they
have to make sure that building and it's concrete 100% but is there a way that if he does that does become another owner we can stri no I mean we could make sure that whatever
restrictions you know that our professionals recommend could be included is part of the resolution but I think one if it's approved it would run with the land so yeah because I don't I don't you know this is a different type of
maintenance on vehicles but what's going to keep if he sells this business and then becomes a full yeah someone else someone someone else has a use car lot and then decides to do half hour oil changes I think that's kind of what we're thinking you know yeah so how do
we prepare for that scenario it would have to be a limitation it said that the that the repairs are only in conjunction with preparation of the vehicles for resale as opposed to third parties coming in
for oil changes can I which is which is consistent with what the ordinance says so had in your resolution you know that that's the Restriction I mean that's what's that's what's anticipated you know the ordinance specifically say only cars for own not Cars of people of
customers it's it's clearly WR in the audiance okay Jennifer anything else you want to add no I I just I would I'm interested to see looking at the site plan it doesn't appear that there are like where do the
cars go in the building I guess I'll I'll save that for Mr Civ yeah that's what I was so aren we here testimony and then we can maybe hopefully tackle this issue with the other testimony I'm sorry I miss I
said let's hear from your next witness and then we can maybe you know abut Jen said we'll pin it and then we have to bring it up again and John's going to stick around so if you have more questions he'll be here okay i' call Rob thank you so so would this stuff with the application inconsistencies be able
to be cleaned up tonight I mean that's that's what I'm kind ofan we can deal with that as a resolution compliance make sure that whatever the board ultimately decides and if they decide to act in the affirmative then as a resolution compliance item all the
inconsistencies in the application materials need to be reconciled that's no problem we should be able to do that okay okay well thank you he's introduced himself he's a he's an engineer has he appeared before yes he has just as long as your license is
current I I know I know I can recite your credentials too thank you so apprciate it didn't ask me that from two weeks ago Rob would you uh generally uh all right so I describe your view of the application I heard a couple of different items and questions I'll try
to tackle them one at a time as we go um Eileen if you wouldn't mind just putting up the colored rendering um that's on the screen the first item that I heard was the delivery of vehicles um the applicant indicated that most of his Vehicles will be driven
to the site I agree with Jen there's no guarantee that every vehicle will be driven to the site um there is on the aerial rendering and on the site plan I was just kind of waiting for it the pull-up so I was kind of filling this with a lot of words um there is a trash enclosure on
our site plan that has a loading area on it yes that's it perfect thank um is that is that marked do you know Rob I don't know if it's marked um we can we probably I don't think we marked it 820 it's marked 820 is an aerial exhibit of
the site was prepared by my office um if we can just scroll down there's a trash enclosure which is the second brown box on the site plan in front of that trash enclosure is a access to it that is 15 by to this first parking stall 60 ft
long so it's 50 by 60 ft long there's more than adequate space for I would call those typical one or two car type of haulers to enter the site pull in back out and then leave the site or do it in reverse if it needs to do it in the other direction so I think there is adequate space on this site for a car
hauler style delivery vehicle to operate so J I hope that to just clarify you said one to two vehicle type of call right it's not meant for a tractor trailer with seven cars on it it's meant for the standard one or two type vehicle
haulers um the second question was concrete versus pavement um obviously we're proposing pavement if there's some concern about the conditions of certain Vehicles we can definitely concrete a portion of one of the areas I don't know if we need to concrete the whole parking
lot area but if the way it's set up now there's double stacked storage of the sale vehicles for sale along the southernly and easterly park property lines so Rob can I interject so I understand that not every
car that's brought to the site is in need of repair correct correct I would say correct yes so would the applicant be amenable to putting concrete on those 14 tandem spots that are like immediately under underneath the the trash
enclosure and in this location yep so that if the cars are in need of repair for whatever reason oil battery whatever they would be stored on that concrete P pad pending service but the balance of the display would be on pavement and we
would anticipate the cars on the pavement would be those that are like driver ready I have no objection to that I agree with reasonable my only comment would be to answer your third question is the overhead door doors to the building are in front of the southernly
portion of the proposed is that flush curb there or that flush curb there yes okay so so I didn't know if we wanted to put the cars that are in need of Greater repair closer to those doors or farther than those I me I'm trying to save you from putting the whole making the whole site concrete that's no problem we'll do these 14
stalls in concrete and that'd be fine but to answer the the one that are immediately under the trash enclosure on the Eastern side on the easterly property line and then the two overhead doors are on the southern portion of the building to get inside that building area and there's two Overhead Doors
there so I think that was the questions that were engineering related um what where are the uh containers for the transmission fluid and all that kind of stuff where do you have those located and how do you dispose of them that's more of an operational question for Mr sucus I
would believe that they're stored inside of the building and then that he has different agreements with different recycling companies but each side come up and answer come talk toic yeah put it on record cuz that's that's a good question can't hear you from back there so important the the tanks that are like
you know probably 55 gallon tanks they will be stored inside the garage and whenever they are ready you know for you know discharge will call the uh corporation that does the recycling and they take them out and they give us another empty where they send trucks
with tanks and they drain them out usually that it's a truck they come and they pick them up with with some kind of pick them up and exchange then they have yeah what about painting you going to paint cars no so I mean if you get like a brand new BMW that's working great but somebody scratched the hell out of it
you're not going to buy it just to paint it you send it out we'll make sure the car runs and once it's running then we'll take it to the body shop for but you wouldn't paint it there no okay that's right Mr suus uh how about tires do you
replace like new tires on the vehicles when you get them uh if a car needs a tire uh we'll buy a tire and we just replace it all right uh but when you buy something used it's not like we're switching all four unless they're completely worn down if it needs all fours we will
change it okay so and then if you were to store the tires before they get picked up to be disposed of would they be stored inside the building is there any kind of Corral that you'd have outside the building again we don't do it ourselves we go to a tire place and we replace the tires all right so you're not doing that any of that on the site
no okay anybody else from the board question for the engineer on on the north side of the property there's something there on the rendering I can't quite make it out it's like some kind of grid this is right here yeah that is a proposed underground storm water
management system so it's pipes inside of stone that collects runoff from the paved parking area and infiltrates it back into the ground and the top will be Stone the top will be Stone yes all right thank you so while we're on that before we move off of that Rob would the applicant have an issue with putting
some Ballers across that just so that way that doesn't become part of the parking area and doesn't serve the the purpose of stor War management yeah no we already have on the plan a proposed Timber guide rail across there so if that's fine otherwise you want to swap it out for Ballard either way is fine no that's fine and then I just want to
point out for the board's um awareness too there's this aerial doesn't show it but um there balance of the site there's a another garage area and it was some millings or other kind of material that looked to have been spread around the
site the applicant had updated on their plans that those areas would be removed and revegetated right that's occurring Mr Right we are in the process of uh you know through a landscape and removing all these recycled asphalt and put regular soil um I have one comment for
the concrete it will make sense to have the concrete parking spaces close to the garage rather than on F way I mean that's totally up to you I was trying to come up with something that would be satisfactory to the board and not require you don't have any an exorbitant
amount of concrete on the site but if you would prefer then I would suggest that those 16 spaces next to the garage be concrete yeah I mean it makes sense it's closer to the building it's just two more SP I was literally going to say that yeah yeah so where would you like
them we'll put them on the Mr odonnal I'm going to hit you in the head if I point to it right on the southernly side it'll be these southernly stalls yeah okay makes sense and then there was a question or comment Charlie made about an there is
two there's an existing detached garage which you can see part of the roof of which is to remain and then there's the foundation of a previous building that is to be removed correct all soil and correct
correct nice so and then the parking lot itself is fully curved 6 in height curb other than the curb cut for the storm water and then there's a 12T wide curb cut that goes to what to the the garage so there's a curb
cut for allowing the storm water to flow off of the P Parking Lot into the drainage area and then yes there's a second curb cut that allows access to the old while call The Farm Road which the balance of the site was previously farmed it's not now it's just open yard
area field area and it will provide access to that detach garage yes what is the applicant intent for the use of that garage the the garage most likely will used in case we have to store a car that has a leaking roof uh so it has to be
protected uh and if the two car garages in the in there for so how many cars you think you would need to store in there maybe one or two you know so it's just if the structure has a and you don't want water to leak
into you know sometimes the sunroof doesn't work well and they leak and you can't just leave them there especially when it's raining and it would just be inside that garage all this area that I talked about the millings and the stone that's being removed like we're not going to be seeing a Mayhem with cars all over the place no okay is that
structure sound so it it doesn't need any repair the existing garage it looks you know in a good uh order I mean it's old but it's usable okay so and then the existing dwelling that's on the property that's to remain
that is to remain yes and I'm glad you brought that up because one of the things I wanted to mention and then we got sidetracked with all these other questions and comments which were good is we right now on our plans propose a 30 foot wide access driveway to the main parking field then we also propos to
keep the existing driveway which we were going to use for the resid so we had two driveways on Route 33 this application obviously was submitted back in the summer of last year I think it was and we've had a number of applications go before the do and they keep coming back to us now and
say we're not giving you two driveways on one lot but they want you to subdivide the lot create a lot for the residents and create a lot for the commercial building and then we'll give you the two driveways so in lie of doing a subdivision which we know is kind of silly for this lot what we're proposing to do is eliminate the driveway access
to to Route 33 and just put a parallel driveway I'll call it between the parking field and Route 33 to the house so that when you come you make the turn into the driveway and again I'm don't want to if you pull into the driveway you'd make a left and then we'd have a
driveway that would just run parallel 12 foot wide that would go to the house and that what that does is that just eliminates the driveway that's there now you have any kind of exhibit that kind of shows that for the board's consideration just so we can see don't have an exhibit other than it'd be a
like I said a 12T wide driveway that would just come off of this driveway and just run parallel to the parking field what's going to be the use of is it going to stay as a residence is there is it going to operate in conjunction
with the used car lot or I'm planning to keep it as a ra if I can do you do you occupy it ises an employee OCC rental property okay res okay and then as far as so the residence
that's there is on a septic system does the new building have bathrooms and is that going to be tied into that septic system or is it so both the existing well call the floral shop building that's there now and the residents are utilizing one
septic field they each have their own tank that connects into one septic field that was recently approved I say recently about two years now approved by the health department and a new septic system was installed sted and we will continue to use those two systems for the new building and the existing
dwelling yes so and they're sized accordingly yeah so the applicant will get uh sign off from the Board of Health at the change in use there's no issue correct and we have a letter from them that they reviewed this application and they have no objection to it I think there is something is there something already think so okay yeah just so I
understand that house is going to be uh leased out or rented to someone it's not going to be associated with the building and if you can't rent it you know and you want to associate it with the building you're going to have to come back again for what so you got to make up your mind which way it's going to go
it's right now you don't allow we don't allow multiple principal uses on a single lot and so whether the board acts in the affirmative on the application is based upon the testimony regarding the use of the structure if the use of the
structure changes I think this is what Mr odonnell is referring to you have to come back here to get their approval you can't just arbitrarily change how that's used I understand yeah and you'll hear a little bit more on the uses from the planner and we'll
discuss that a little bit more then uh anybody else from the board I mean I know we are you g to talk about the lack of the buffer or like can we talk about that at all I mean you're
not compliant with the buffers on the site correct Christine's going to talk about it from a from a variant standpoint but from a like did you consider the buffers at all when you laid the site out we did consider the buffers and it's my
understanding that there's a 50 foot perimeter buffer required around a site unless you're adjacent to a non-residential so if it's a Comm if it's a farm right residential use or Zone you have a residential use on your property and this board has required
other applicants to put buffer on the same site as their proposal we did that over on 524 so typically the buffer for the adjoining property so I'm not sure why we'd put a buffer on this property if we're already next to the res
commercial use um but the I understand what you're saying and I'm not I'm just say you need a lot of buffer relief and we haven't heard about it at all okay I I can just I'll talk about the buffers a little bit I have no problem doing that e if you don't mind just scrolling so that we can see the upper left corner of
uh this this map on the on the right side of the screen there we go perfect so the yellow is the entire outbound of the property and on the plant it's a little hard to see but you can see next to it there's a purplish dash line that is the Zone
boundary line all the improvements are on the front portion of the property and they're in the hd4 zone everything on the other side of it to the rear of the lot is in the A2 Zone so both the property to our East is commercially developed within the hd4 zone and so is the property to our I'll call it west or
north so there's commercial properties on either side of us within the hd4 Zone the property behind us has does have a residents on the back side of their property which is partially commercial partially residential and then the backside of our lot is residential so we
have no problem providing a 50-ft buffer back here it has no impact on what's being proposed today because everything is outside of that area um I believe the properties across the street again are developed commercially except possibly for two lots in
the left side of our east west side of the property and again we're not proposing any development in that area so I believe we're going to need you to show the buffer we have put compant with Sherry the bming the vegetation the whole n
y all right so we can provide the horizontal distance of the 50ft buffers I'm not sure the applicant's desire is to provide the landscaping and bming in those buffers um particularly since it's was like historically farmed if he wants
to go back to farming it guys you've been here a million times you know how this buffer works here I I I've I say this I think I said this earlier right I've been working in the town for two decades and I think we've granted relief from this less than five times so if there is a residential
use across the street you have to provide the buffer the burm the fencing the Landscaping regardless and if there's a farm behind you you again have to provide the buffer the birming the Landscaping the fencing Etc that's
required so and there's no reason to not do it so you know I don't know that I mean we'll listen to the testimony but this board is not one to Grant relief on this buffer ever so I
think that wherever it's applicable it needs to be put in so and I just want to clarify too so um we had cited lot 34 to the east is also requiring technical relief so it is there is a commercial use on that property but I'm fairly certain that that property got approval
for apartments on the second story of of of one of the the buildings there so it is mixed use it does have a residential component so we cited that needing relief along the easterly property line you're talking this slot
here correct okay and they they don't have they're they're right up to our property line with development yeah they still have a residential use it's up to you it's up to you to put the proofs on why you you know feel relief is I just trying putting it out there for the
board's record I understand okay Sherry have you been to the site I haven't been on the site I've seen the site from you know the the road there are some trees along the front edge that are not so great there's some you know they have a wide open area with scattered trees um I do have some
comments like to remove some meanthis trees that we don't want them to keep on site when they do this work that's no problem I agree with that um do you think we have to I mean I I agree we need a buffer but is it something that we don't have to be making massive you
know expense into large size or because the area in the back I mean we do require a buffer and I'm 100% in agreement with that but is it where do you think there's enough there that we can just kind
of So currently I you know on the over on the AAL view it shows a farm right um you're just planning to just completely desert that area and vacate it the rear yard area yeah right now it's not being farmed there's no development proposed I
think Mr sukus indicated to me that he mows it a couple times a year but other than that nothing occurs out there at the moment so that air is just going to become invasive mess well again if you doesn't maintain it
yes yeah so you you're just planning on just mowing that every couple years I mean I have to otherwise will be wild trees you know coming out I'm I I was thinking of putting some Christmas trees there you know but uh
yeah third I'm just saying you know just instead I hate to see that farm you know being wasted well we kind of I mean I guess the question becomes as of right now you're not proposing anything anything else going on that site you have to come
back here I understand just you know talking out loud and I agree with board 100% there should be the 50ft buffer in that area it's just it's a large area to start birming and planting and fencing and if that's required you'll have to decide where they wants to do that or not but
yeah because that definitely the front with the residential that's definitely no I understand that I understand but you would work with cherry on that and you know come to hopefully an agreement on that that
would be great F another piece a farm so this is what about the property right behind you is that another little farm if you move the so the top no not this a side is it those are all the
houses okay you're talking this yeah that's another Farm it definitely looks like it is at Le in that photo being to some degree farmed yes right and then there's a farm in front of that one I don't know if they're and it looks like there's some
along the property lines some existing vegetation Farms right right so you so you're unfarmed property but Farm property correct so in that regard it's a farm buffer so that is something that this
board is really passionate about so I get it's in the back and it's not being used but at some point you may use it so we would we would right we would recommend that the buffer be put in that location you certainly have the room for
it um and adjacent to you is a farm so and the goal is to protect the farm not you no I I agree I that's why I said the 50 Foot buffer I think is very applicable there yeah I agree 100% it's so are we just talking about a matter of showing it on the plan for future
awareness are talking about showing the buffer and then them having to comply with the birming and the planting then that's that's a whole another right discussion I think what Mr sucus is offering is or indicating is he's more than willing to put the 50 Foot buffer
in that area um but he's not looking to maybe landscape at bmit and fence it for that entire length nothing's proposed there now if he decides I'm okay with that he has to come back I'm I'm okay with that if you're willing to deed restrict that but if you're not willing
to deed restrict it then the buffer needs to go in Period the whole thing not just the 50 Foot area but if you're willing to say nothing's going to go back there I'm okay with just the distance but I that's not what I'm hearing and so that buffer needs to go
in because to be perfectly honest I can Envision creep of this use back back back we've seen it how many times the buffer needs to go in with this application they they there need relief
for it on the Eastern property line down towards 33 because the building is proposed close to the property line and where those mixed use development is but in the back to the farm it needs to go in I would also ask uh if you guys have
an idea as to how many vehicles would be on the property at any given time uh I can't hear two if you have a number of vehicles that would be on the property at any given time and if you would uh if you would agree that there would
be no storage of anything back there because as to answer your first question there's 30 spots for 30 show vehicles um so the yeah but how many show vehicles but how many vehicles in total because you know those are the ones that you're
showing maybe you buy a couple extra because they were at great price and now you're storing them in the back now that's not that doesn't have any kind of uh concrete on it and you have uh all kinds of oils or fluids I age 100% be no
more than the 30 plus I would say two in the garage and two in the other garage that's 34 no more than that and then obviously you have seven parking stalls for customers employees but no more than 34 Vehicles should be on this site at any one given time for
that very reason yeah so to go back to the buffer maybe uh if you know a compromise for it would be showing the buffering on the plan and putting some kind of uh easement restriction with it on the back of the property and then maybe instead of
having all that planted at this time if there can be some kind of like a barrier of fencing kind of put further up closer to Route 33 just so it doesn't we don't get that creep you know like kind of where it starts at the stem of the flag there
in this location yeah like if maybe a fence or some kind of like guide rail or Timber guide rail or something just so you know we're not getting it kind of separates the back of the site which is not part of this application uh or not part of any subject development right now it kind of
separates and kind of takes it out of the equation I would I would think that's a good idea something that's probably like a post and rail type of fence that way John can see through it and there's nothing that's blocking the view back there but it kind of demarc the residential and commercial property
zone line there's a mark where the commercial with a farm right that's what we're talking right right I would submit Mr chair if they were willing to put some kind of barrier and not like a fence with a gate but like a barrier there I would actually be
okay with the delineation of the 50 Foot buffer in the rear until such time as something were to be proposed back there because if there's a barrier that prevents this use from creeping into that area and if they're going to use that for something in the future they would have to come back to us anyway and
we could address the buffer at that time um so I think that that's a fair compromise to put the buffer at that choke point I mean I'm sorry the barrier at that choke point and then show the 50 ft on the plans as buffer but defer the
actual installation of the burm fencing planting until such time as that back piece is actually used I would agree with that I think the only thing though without with the barrier um if he wants to mow it three times a year that's that would be like the only thing and if you're not that's fine it's just going
to you know that fow field will just revert I don't know how you plan on mowing it but if you are going to mow it you could probably put some opening in this barrier that would fit a mower but not a vehicle yeah something like six foot wide or something that can open up
and not wide enough for a car and I agree with that that's a we can do that I think that we could defer you know if they come back for something in the back I mean it is a significant distance from what they're proposing yeah that's what to that back property and it it kind of jogs around the self storage and I think
that's a fair compromise as long as we provide that physical separation agreed is uh the board okay with that John you okay with that everybody yeah my only question is when we're talking about all this buffering and I think we kind of started between the dealership and the house should we
do anything there or are we okay with it just I mean I personally thought it was a bit much when we did that on that other property so I mean that was a lot um that property was significantly larger so there was room to separate but um if
this is a rental and the person that's renting it understands what they're getting themselves into that's totally fine but I agree with Mr Mertens that if the circumstance associated with that structure changes whether it becomes part of your office or something else you'd have to come back and let the
board you know make the board aware of whatever change in that structure that makes sense okay I just have one other question with regards to the driveway which isn't shown on these plans uh you're stating that it's going to essentially be a
shared driveway so to speak so it's going to turn off to the left correct correct is there anything that separates the edge of the parking lot and that driveway that leads to the house that would prevent either the business from going on on to it uh the cars backing
out onto that driveway and causing an issue there'll be at least a 5 foot strip of landscaping and then you also have the curbing associated with the parking lot okay do you think there's going to have to be some trees removed to make that uh
driveway I think that's the area Sher that some of the trees you were talking about moving anyway there's atanus over there there's some silver Maples that are not in good shape that they're showing to save but you really need to take those out so and we'll add additional Landscaping to replace yeah exactly that's why I was getting at so
Cherry can give us her recommendation that should be fine absolutely okay anybody else yes um the deck associated with the twostory dwelling is that staying and is the existing brick paav
patio associated with the two-story dwelling St we don't touch anything on the house it's up it's right up against the building there is a space between the house and the building no not well the brick paaver patio is right up against
your new building there so the proposed building is going to start at that same common wall That's the floral shop now so in theory those brick pavers would butt up to that new building wall um my guess is going to be that that deck will remain but some of
those brick papers might get reconfigured as part of the construction it was and the the walkway that let leads from the house to what was the floral shop that's remaining so right now we do have it to
remain if it turns out that they get somebody that rents it that's not associated with it they may excuse me they may very well remove that walkway yeah I mean if you're going to be using it as a
residential property as a like a rental property there needs to be a distinction and a separation of those two I'm thinking REM the person who had this the the person who owned the floral shop lived in the house so there was a commy
there correct you know now it's going to be like two separate and they need to be treated I would I hear you I hear you and I don't disagree with you either so I I would not be objected to removing that if you're okay with that I I don't disagree with you did you plan on having
a fence around the residential property to again distinguish I did not know I'm not sure you'd want to necessarily do that there is a large yard area to the north that if you fenced it might have kind of restrict that but again we could do that if
that's something the board wants to do I I just think you know in my mind they think of children just walking you know and there's nothing obstructing them from just walking onto that commercial prop put a fence between the two you know structures
there we can put a fence between the two structures the garage and the office and the and the residential so a fence around the you know separating the residential your um rental property from your commercial property yes got the
driveway coming in yeah I'm trying to figure out like this driveway situation I'm I'm I can't visually see it in my mind like how this is working out I didn't have any problem having two driveways but the department of traffic you know they only one one
driveway so what's the proposal so we're proposing to run a driveway when you come into the main access driveway do you have the site plan Eileen sheet three of 11 on the pdf version to
pull up on the screen by any chance maybe that's a little clearer three three of 11 but while she's doing that I agree with you we can eliminate that brick papers area keep the deck because I think that's part of the entrance into the building mhm and then eliminate the
interconnecting concrete walkway so that there's no connection between those two uses would that be good with you yeah I definitely think we should get rid of that existing concrete walkway because that was used its
original purpose was the owners of the floral would would transverse you know using that walkway and that walkway is not necessary anymore thank you very much Eileen and John and I'm not sure this is going to be more helpful but I think it might be is the area this is the curb associated with the show of the
vehicles in the parking field so we'd come in and then we'd have a driveway that would just come right across the front of the show area 12 foot wide so instead of having this driveway come this way we' basically rotate it 90 degrees and come this way and we put it like five feet off of
this curb so that you're not interconnecting the two driveways other than the one spot right at the entrance driveway so look like a lawn strip pretty much between between the curb and the driveway a lawn strip and we we also have some Landscaping in that area
yes so the people who the rental the people would go into that driveway and drive across to the house correct and how far is that that is approximately and I can measure it for
you and how wide is the driveway going to be FR in a 12T wide driveway and it is it's about 60 ft from here to this part of the driveway will they be able to turn their car around in there and drive out instead of backing up yep cuz
we'd leave the K turn area in place we would just come straight across here and then out so yes you could MH and again this is all done because the do is asking us in past applications we were going to we're assuming we're going to get the same comment to do a
subdivision to subdivide off the house and then they would give us the driveway and I'm not sure we want to go down the subdivision route and why it's an excellent question um I think Mr kennel would be better to answer that than
me I think would make more sense I don't disagree with you fellow board members what what do you think about like a fence around the residential property I actually think you're going to need it to delineate to delineate well I mean is
it you're talking on the west side of the residential I mean I can understand between this business but when you're getting to the West Side what would be the purpose of it so we could do a fence from the driveway come up and then go west and then just we can either do a
little return here or just end it there is that what you had Mr bro is that what you had in mind or something along those lines I I would like to see a Del delineation right between the two yeah and the yeah and the were
you're where he just pointed out is I think is accomplishing that but on the west side I don't see any reason kind of box it in yeah also with the 12T driveway all I assume the fire chief has looked at all this and always was well
with the fire department so to answer the first part of that question we have not submitted it so he has not reviewed it um but typically the fire department wants pavement within 150 ft of its structure so we would comply with that okay so you would comply with okay
yes and a question for Jen yeah um did you say before there you can't have two different uses like a rental property and a commercial property yeah so they have testimony coming for the multiple okay we don't we don't allow
multiple principal uses on a single lot so they're going to provide testimony regarding justification for that okay thank you okay are you any more questions for the engineer okay this point do we anybody would like
to take a break quick break okay Eileen we're gonna take a quick five minute break the board will now take a five minute break and reconvene at 8:47 p.m. e we're back the meeting will now reconvene where did our turn you go I
know I can do this just like that I'm this to okay at this time I am going to ask maybe that the planner come up and testify that's fine Mr and then if we have questions for Mr kennel we can ask
them after she's done that's fine because I don't think there's too much that we need to know at this point and if we have questions well that's an old man and he needed his sleep at that's yeah I know I'm just kidding
so I call here my God Christine yes I'm ready to go okay you need her to present her qualification no no thank you so I present no she's uh we accept her qualifications thank you again so good evening again chairman and members of
the board for the record is Christine Naro cfone um as you heard a lot of testimony tonight so I don't want to belabor any points you know that this is a split zone property in the hd4 and the AR two the re we are not here seeking a use variance because the use that we're
proposing is not permitted in the zone it's conditionally permitted and we meet all of the conditions um we also you know the the highway development for Zone also permits a Litany of Fairly intensive commercial uses the issue is because even though that zone only
requires 40,000 square fet or just under an acre um and we have 6.54 Acres we can't have two principal uses on one lot so we've got the existing dwelling which has a non-conforming front yard setback of 13.7 ft or 60 is required in the zone
again it's an existing condition so because these two uses are proposed to sit on one lot that's why we need the D variant so unlike other testimony you hear where we're asking you to introduce the use into the Zone that's not allowed this is a little different and that we're asking for the two uses so I do think that the site is particularly
suitable it likely the size of it is certainly sufficient right 6.54 Acres we would definitely have enough acreage to subdivide the property The Zone also requires 150 ft of Frontage um on Route 33 we have over 500 just just over 500
so the site is definitely large enough and suitable to handle the two the multiple principal uses um in addition to that as far as the special reasons or the positive criteria I think criteria G can be looked at sufficient space in appropriate locations for a variety of uses um this is certainly an appropriate
use to the uh the highway Corridor if you look at the stated purpose of the hd4 zone right in section 188 783 of the ordinance it reads the purpose of the hd4 zone is to provide for Highway development along Route 33 that will provide a balance of social economic and
cultural opportunities for residents while maximizing existing transportation and other infrastructure along the Route 33 Corridor you already heard from the applicant through his direct testimony that he intends to have a synergistic use with other uses already existing namely the um the the auto auctions in
on the corridor so I think we're certainly well aligned with the stated purpose of the hd4 zone so with that being said as far as the negative criteria I don't see any substantial detriment to the Zone plan if the applicant were to be successful in asking for the relief that's required
when you're dealing with two uses on one lot some of the things that the board is often concerned with is you know can the site handle it so to put things in perspective in the hd4 zone you are allowed to have 70% in perious coverage existing on site today um after the
application if the board were to move favorably we have about eight8 and a half% impervious coverage so certainly not a significant amount of impervious coverage and the applicant we can certainly um accommodate the impervious coverage as far as the master plan one
of the stated goals in the Howell Township reexamination report from 2020-23 was to encourage new businesses and industries to locate along the Township's Highway corridors which will allow the economy of Howell and pro allow which will grow the economy of
Howell and provide new services and potential employment opportunities for residents so I also think in addition to being aligned with the hd4 Zone it's aligned with the goals in the master plan so I can tell you from a planning point of view I believe we meet the statutory criteria it sounds to me like
we have discussed through the testimony of Mr Civ our site engineer together with your professionals a sufficient workout on the buffer we know that that's important to Howell and we will certainly um as a condition of approval agree to putting the um the blocking so that we don't have site creep into that
area and work with your professionals to make sure that we're meeting the intent of that buffer while we may need some technical relief from it due to the um the residences that are either existing on our site or existing across the street from us so with that said I think we mute our statutory burden of proof
for the totality of relief required in conjunction with this application and I need I see no substan detriment to the Zone plan or the public good if the board were to move favorably on this variance okay before I ask Jen to comment did we mention anything about
the sidewalks on Route 33 no they've requested a waiver for a sidewalk and to to pay into the fund and you know I typically am not one to do that but I really don't think we should be encouraging walking on 33 9 is a different scenario the bus regularly
stops 33 there's not a big show shoulder there's not a lot you know I don't know that we want to encourage it and I don't see a lot of Walkers there so I take no exception if they receive a waiver and contributing the fund we could probably use the fund to put sidewalks elsewhere which where they'd be more appropriate
everybody good with that okay okay comment on the testimony I think I I don't take any exception to to what Miss kfon said they are here because there's two uses on the lot there's two uses on the lot now so it's not a condition that's unusual for this site it's just a
different non-residential use that the non-conforming use is remaining the same um I think the applicant has made some concessions with uh separating the house from this use by eliminating the deck and the connecting walkway putting in a
fence and some Landscaping between the uses I think will allow for them to continue to operate on one lot but still maintain some separation in the uses of the property I get that the two driveways
are not ideal but honestly on 33 people are moving at quite a pace and have two driveways that close together I would be a little concerned about so I think that the consolidation of the driveways is a better alternative this is an efficient use of the land I don't know if you use
that one Christine I used J but I would agree with you that M that would be criteria M that would also work so I you know I mean you only have to meet one so we're talked about at least two so I don't take exception if this use was proposed at a different location in town
I would have a very different opinion it's not uncommon on 33 and it's on it's on the westbound side right of 33 so you know you're you're backed up to pretty much nothingness so um I mean there are
some uses behind there subdivision but you know I don't take an exception I don't consider this to be a super intense use I would Envision you know modest amount of visitors I don't you know they have committed and I would Mr Bearer likeed
for the no tractor trailer car carrier restriction to be put in place um absent that I think that the applicant has worked with us on all facets of making the site work best for us that physical
barrier to that back piece was a big thing so I think that that was a huge consent session and uh I don't take any exception to the testimony that's been provided okay anything from the board members uh one thing is it 34 parking
spaces or 37 because the paperworks say 37 and I heard 34 stated which is it so there 30 stalls for the show vehicles and seven for the customer employee so it's 37 total okay so it's not 34 it's it be
total 37 because code enforcement if you say 34 and it's 37 you're going to run into a problem so you'd rather have 37 wouldn't you so so and just to clarify right so there's 30 vehicle display spaces and you C we calculate the parking requirement based off of those vehicle display spaces so they are
required to have six they're proposing seven so I think as a condition of the approval the appam would agree that those employee visitor spaces will not be used for vehicle display or anything correct okay and then we have they're not parking spaces but we have those
four interior areas for vehicles the two in the one building and the two in the other detached so they have 37 Sur spaces and then they have availability for four additional cost okay that's good that's just for the record so and then I I just want to clarify too so I think their representation is they're
expecting do is going to have an issue with the existing residential driveway their pref preference would be to keep it as it is right but if dot comes back with a comment and says you need to do away with that then it would be all right we're going to connect it into the commercial driveway we're going to create some kind of Separation with some
Landscaping between the parking lot and the residential driveway reconfigure the Landscaping right that's accurate correct other than I don't know if we actually got the com okay yeah so and I can say Mr Si's
office has been in correspondence with our office on a separate site that has was approved by the board and this is to kind of preempt to have to come back on this one you know based off comments from Dot and then the only other thing I would say is I don't believe the site's currently in this I don't believe that
sewer is currently available across the uh project Frontage but at sometime in the future if it becomes available does applicant agree to connect to public sewer at that time should it become available okay the only other thing Mr chair that I just want to bring up is that I would
like um some attention to the facade that faces 33 it's it's very can you bring up the rendering John it's it's blank so some windows I don't care if they're real windows or fake Windows something it's just a blank like
if you could see on the display that blank wall is going to face 33 so it needs to be a little bit more visually attractive and then maybe some Foundation plantings you you required those right foundation plantings around the building yeah we can do that
shutters something and you know if you would agree if the board were to act in the affirmative I would say that it could be a condition of approval that your applicant work Miss cfone and I work together on a regular basis if she coordinates with my office we can come up with something for that facade that
would work I'm good with that also as to we haven't talked anything about signage have any Our intention is to comply with the ordinance for signage okay thank you okay you're welcome which we can also provide a detail and when we have to go get our sign permit but our intent was
to comply be with compliance okay okay at this time we'll open to the public I'll entertain a motion I'll make a motion Mr chair second second by Mr Donal all in favor yep okay can you come up come on down
thank you Christine yeah or you want to stand whatever works either way I'm good uh good evening I represent uh my name is Steven Lombardy I'm an attorney Red Bank New Jersey I represent uh an objector here the neighbor of lot 34
towel Holdings LLC one and two um I'm sorry what's it called towel Tow t it's right next door we have a number of comments and objections uh related to this development uh first we think the whole thing is
really uh you know when you're maintaining the two uses trying to trying to maintain that residence in the middle uh it uh it jams the whole project into the one side of the property uh we'd rather see the whole thing closer to the road and not jammed
into that one back side of the property um with that said uh I didn't hear any testimony today uh as to the operations uh how many employees are they going to have uh what are these uh where are these employees going to park
uh they also mentioned something about using that back uh that back garage area uh with uh for uh mechanical work and car storage uh that there's no there's no uh it's just a dirt road leading up to that back garage area uh you we we
would we would like to see some sort of pavement or something put there to ensure ensure that the car uh the cars that need repairs are just not kicking up dust every time they drive back and forth through there uh the
um uh the existing use uh I just find it hard to believe that that no car trailers are going to pull up here dropping cars off and then every single car that comes into this facility is going to be going to be hand driven by a single individual uh it's just not not our experience with used car lots that
this is the way they operate and do business they buy cars in bulk two and three at a clip uh or maybe more from auction houses than they get delivered by usually it's a a pickup truck with a fifth wheel maybe with one or two or three or three cars in the back I just don't see the the parking lot area be
sufficient for those kind of vehicles to turn in um I'd also say that before the the board maybe votes uh that the plans be updated to show where you know the the change in the uh proposed driveway usage the change in the Landscaping that
were all requested here tonight the fencing that's going to be put in to block the back portion of the lot the 50- foot buffer that the engineers and and the and the board seems to uh uh seems to require um we also there's also
uh I guess there's going to be some car washing and some detailing going on uh uh if that's going to take place uh where's the runoff going to go and this there's a 4 foot drop off an elevation from the uh the far right corner of that
parking lot down into my my client's uh property uh we believe that that it's prone going to prone be run running water into that into their into their lot from that from that drop off uh so we'd like to see the plans updated before any action is taken by this board
many many changes here have been recommended uh moving the driveway specifically uh the traffic study was done uh at a time when uh I guess the original Plan called for 176 cars on the lot and hasn't really been updated since then we'd like to see an update in that
before any any vote is taken by this by this board uh the other the other the other item with the traffic I'd like to maybe address as presently as it stands with two driveways that's insane I mean how many people are going to miss that drive that first driveway coming down 33
and end up in the in the residential driveway on their own and then have to back out onto Route 33 uh in in really an unsafe manner into into oncoming traffic uh so I I I I support I guess the the the other proposal here but I
haven't seen any plans as to where it's going to go and what it's going to look like uh so I would urge the board to uh require updated plan so showing all these recommendations before any action is taken um but we believe that the whole project is really just it's crammed into
one corner where it really should be spread out more across the front of the L of the property uh the other comment I had too is uh the the uh the showroom building uh it's so close to the residents is not another variance needed for that I don't think that was applied
for but is isn't there supposed to be a 30 distance between the two structures I I didn't see any variance for that being uh it's not not a requirement that there be 30 ft between the back of the of the of the resident's house and the and the Gage no because technically the
residence is not a permitted use in the zone so we don't have a bulk standard associated with that and we only typically have those separation distances if we have a large scale project with like a lot of townhouse buildings we usually have a building to building requirement but not so much for
something like this so I'd like to see like the traffic report updated uh to determine what what the uh impact is going to be now having more cars entering in one driveway I guess was which is what was proposed uh the other uh aspect of things is that uh
so many doubled up uh spaces I I I just don't see where the customers are going to park uh if they're all if they're all going to be doubled up and filled with display cars uh and there was no testimonial to their hours of operation or expected I think he did testify he did testify to that he did what was the
what the hour sorry 9 to Monday through Saturday and are people going to be able to peruse the premises after hours without any security gates uh being up I I I think I think that that that's G to going to happen at times someone's going
to come in after 600 p.m. or in the summer and want to look at look at cars and and just be out back there on their own so I think some some some attention needs to be uh addressed to that uh that issue as well so with all with all these issues I I think I I I would I would urge the board to at least have updated
plan submitted before any approval is voted on which property does your client own uh if if you can put up the map it's uh immediately to the right as you yeah but what what type business the pool business that's where correct the pool business that's the pool business it's a
a residence to in the back there's a there's a uh it's a uh uh business uh the pool business in the front part of the property and then a residence in the in the rear part what's his business it's uh they he designs Custom Pools it's custom Pool Pros is the name of the
business in ground swimming pools which everyone in how seems to have what are his hours of operation excuse me what are his hours of operation uh I'm not familiar with that I I just it's not a it's not a customer show lot it's it's uh just a storage facility
in an office what stops people from going in and look at this proper they're not there look at used cars uh I'm just reacting to what you're saying I I understand but I I think there needs to be some attention to address to the security of the front of the of the of the of the
premises uh with that said I urge the board to at this point request the updates to the plans at least so we can see what what's actually going to be there especially if they're going to change the uh Ingress to the property in such a radical way to eliminate eliminate now two you know two driveways
Steve that's pretty much up to the do this is a state highway I understand we told the board will go either way but we anticipate theot is going to limit us okay what happens if they do eliminate the driveway that's there now for the
residential are you going to put anything up to totally eliminate so people can won't drive in there I think so John or somebody Scott maybe we do need you yeah I I think Scott should come up and just
maybe address some of these questions and then um hope you heard them Scott will have to just uh again Scott Kennel you need he's appear as long as his license is updated I know well again I'm not licensed I qualifies the traffic as
previously okay we accept your qualification thank you I guess the first question is there was um points raised that the traffic study needs updated this traffic study dated July 24 2 to 2024 States what I considered which
is 30 display parking spaces seven uh customer employee parking spaces the dwelling and then the building used for repair and office so I don't have there's nothing in my report that refers to 176 display Vehicles it's
consistent with the plans and testimony previously just sort of for the board's benefit but as far as dealing with multiple driveways dot takes a position in their access the state highway access management code says for property such as before you and
with the frontage one part one driveway is permitted any additional driveways is considered a waiver this is a low volume development and on these which considered a minor access the manager of the that handles the minor access
permits she doesn't give any any waivers uh we're experiencing this on the on an application down by oakerson Road just to the West here where we had the Landscaping warehouse and then there's a residential dwelling in the front yeah that's a property we're referring to where they've said they will not grant
us the use of the existing driveway and the new driveway so that's what I'm expecting that they're going to follow cons be consistent with what theyve been doing in the last 6 to 12 months as far as the existing driveway when it the residential driveway is removed it'll be removed they may even
and it will be the pavement will be removed and Landscaping and they may even require curb along that section to fully close off the driveway but that's part those are details that'll be subject to their review Once you make an application we haven't made a formal application because we're waiting for
hear the board's decision on this um and if you vote favorably then we will prepare an application and process uh the minor access application okay so and just to clarify for the board too so when this
application was originally submitted there was a traffic report submitted for a separate property two separate properties we deemed the application incomplete for that reason and that that traffic report might have referenced a higher number of uh parking spaces and things like that what the applicant
submitted most recently is for the subject blocking lot and is for the 30 vehicle parking uh display spaces and and um seven employee visitor spaces so um that may be what was origal submitted but was why they were deemed complete
and obviously they're here now because they provided uh an updated traffic report so I just wanted to clarify that for the record okay board members actually Mr kennel since you're here U he had mentioned about the car
hauler and I think Mr Civ pointed out the um dumpster where a turn around Wai loading area we have there where the refuges yeah it's my opinion and look at the plan based on small car carriers that this site can accommodate
them to be able to make the U-turn or k- turn on site so they don't have to offload on Route 33 I mean Route 33 in that section we only have a 4 foot wide shoulder so it's insufficient inadequate to accommodate that kind of operation um and you know Mr Civ design
is to accommodate the small car carriers which will also again is the same design vehicle that is used for um uh refu pickup and it'll accommodate fire emergency vehicles to get onto the site as well um you may have a flatbed but
again those uh Des those vehicles are consistent with the designed Vehicles that's Mr Civ used in developing the plan okay question yeah um when you say small car hauler what are we what are we talking about how many cars
my expectation one or two vehicles on her I've seen them on the road where you have one or two vehicles that are towed and it's articulated but it's basically a a say an F250 F350 truck that's pulling a a trailer that has one or two
vehicles on it so it's a smaller car carrier we're not talking a 40 foot car carrier that would be uh representative a new car dealership or these larger uh Auto Sales facilities this is a small operation with small car
carriers and I think that was a testimony presented previously by Mr ser and by the applicant Andy and and that would be in the resolution that it would be these small and not thing yeah we the the any
of if the board acted favorably any resolution would the applicant would be bound by the testimony of of their professionals and well as the applicant to the board and that kind of detail we'd put in the
resolution all right thank you Mr chair and I I think the objector brought up a a question regarding number of employees and staff for the use so we don't take exception that what's being proposed meets the ordinance requirements as far as for the um used
car lot but maybe they can come up and talk about what their typical operations how many employees they have on the site yeah I think that that question was warranted we did not preempted me with the hours of operation that was going to be the followup John tell them there will be two three employees the maximum
that will be uh on site worst case scenario three maybe right okay three the most so did I see any did I not see any handicap parking spaces in this lot one of the parking spots that's designated
for the customer would be handicap let see that on the plans what about the question that was raised about security after hours uh the gentleman who opposes this you know his parking lot has no Gates and he's asking
me to put Gates it's it's a car dealership people have to come into the lot and do browsing you know they want to see what cars we have there so I I can't put a gate you know because he doesn't feel secure with my parking
space because I've gone to many you use call uh dealerships on Sunday and usually you're accessible to go in there and look at them we're not we're not talking like a big Ford or Dodge dealership I mean
there's I understand what you're saying but in this situation I do not believe it's necessary Mr I agree with you Mr chairman I go out Sunday myself looking at cars because I don't want to be hassled by a Salesman and nobody that's why I go Sunday me too and
you know up and down Route n whatever ones are around there there aren't locked up that I'm aware of so it's not necessary to do that I also understand your questions regarding not seeing the plans I've worked with these
professionals a lot of times we have done it this way only because we have so many cases coming before this board and we I trust them 100% that whatever they're probably the best
people to work with and they're going to come up with a plan that would be in accordance and for us to have to have them come back I I unless anybody else feels differently I'm not well no we've always had success with exactly
professionals so I I actually do have a question so I'm I'm looking at the aial of the residential I have it on my computer residential and the property the question that your part your client owns is the concern because of the fact of the house or the property are you
talking about somebody possibly trespassing onto it I'm just trying to understand it's both uh we'd also like to see more Landscaping in along the fence line or you know maybe an impervious fence put up uh it's just uh we don't you know it's especially if the
customers are going to be prising that back uh the back uh strip with all the spot spots that are the four spots that are uh I don't know how many there are but they're all in a row I mean they're going to be able to pretty much look right into my client's backyard and over
the fence at that point uh who knows but we' like you know if it's going to be 247 access but they can do it now anyway Jennifer weren't we addressing that with what Sherry was going to be doing over there as far as the buffer maybe in that area so they proposing a
buffer on that side because they're pretty tight to the property line um but I would say that you know a fence would probably be appropriate in that location between the two sites couldn't he put his own fence up yes but you're
here for use fence and he's not so would you be willing to put up a fence on that you're also asking for buffer relief right at that exact location so I could say move the building and put the buffer or put a fence he's got a business and
housing there's resident is there too on the second floor I mean you're asking this board to Grant buffer relief on that property line I don't think a fence is uncalled for I think they should put a fence up yeah I agree and I think that would be suitable
as far as above for Mr ahead chair if I could just clarify too so I think there was questions about like uh vehicle wash downs and things like that you don't do wash any Vehicles inside the building or anything like that you don't do any detailing inside the building if we do
wash a car ores you got can you speak up we don't have like just wash by hand so what I would say is Mr Civ when you go to get your
approval from the Board of Health what did they consider that as part of their change in use for the septic system system washing the cars outside no washing the cars inside the building typically you have Fuller drains and those are either typically tied into the
sanitary waste when you do have that yeah we would have so then what happens the water just runs down onto the parking area I hear what he said so you're talking about washing Vehicles inside it's not we take you know the water we it's with a you
know with a map or something you we go and we wash the car we don't throw water on the car you know just go you know side wait wait wait wait stop stop you need Mr SI I would stop can you come up Rob please I'm thinking you're going to bring your
cars to a car wash if you need to have a wash right but that's not what he just said so he just said that the cars are going to be washed on site which prompted a whole series of questions so nobody's washing a car on site with a sponge let's be real here no I don't think it's at least my understanding
that the car needs to be was he's got to bring it to a facility that his car so he's not detailing Vehicles here um I mean if he needs to just do a small clean up he's going to clean it up we got watching cars as a regular basis on Windex come on I'm not talking about
Windex but like he's going to change oil but he's not going to wash a car I mean I just don't believe it so at the end of the day we should say then if you're going to take the vehicles offsite for all these different things then they should
be offsite for service yeah car wash around the area a part I'm not understanding and I forgive me is I change my oil all the time I don't wash my car after I change my oil but I mean I'm not suggesting one's tied to the other but I'm suggesting if he's planning on doing
repairs on site I don't believe that the cars are not going to be washed and detailed on site so either you deal with it all on site or you deal with it all offsite offsite so you're going to deal with oil tires all that stuff offsite change this
is this is the problem you're not listening to what I'm saying Jen he's saying he's washing off site and he's doing oil on things I know that but what I'm suggesting is either all of it should be done off site or you have a provision to deal with the washing on
site because I I just you're not going to bring a car in and then repair it and then not detail it right beide yeah so so I I have no issue with the oil change and things like that when you start washing vehicles and then you
put it into floor drains and it goes into septic system that's a different demand that doesn't fit under especially with the septic system so so I would if there's a condition in any board approval that no vehicle washing on the premises I think that would nip that in the butt and put that to rest I agree Charlie
100% yeah that's I agree we also as the mechanic work I mean typically bumpers need to be repainted all the time because they're scratched up I mean are we we that's already been addressed it's they're doing it offsite
okay do you have any okay Nick um getting back to your employees you said uh only three employees corre does that number go up or down depending if you got you got wish they go up I wish they go up all right so see more than
three how many mechanics do you have one one mechanic one person who works the office maybe and what else an extra person in case there is Need for sales all right so just one mechanic
okay all right thank you do you have any more questions well I have nothing okay thank you anybody else from public can I say something goad uh I
came to this country you know as a student you know I see just because I'm a car salesman that doesn't mean I'm a CW you know I came here I went to college I get my bachelor's degree my master degree I work as an engineer
research engineer at Babs and then with a US Army with top secret uh clearance I got 401K money and I'm trying to build this up for my family and our future I'm not doing anything
illegal when I never did anything illegal that's all I want tell you okay thank you okay motion to close the public motion to close second all in favor is there anything else professionals
board members closing I really nothing to add the conditions that have been discussed are agreeable basically we've told you so okay so what is the just one thing about
getting back to this washing of the cars I kind of side J on this a little bit because if you're doing work on the car you're going to I don't see why you're taking the car to detail it somewhere else when you can just do it right there um and I know it's going to
be in the resolution if if it's you know in the affirmative but who's going to monitor that how do who's going to monitor if this car these cars are being washed on premises or not how is that going to be managed well I guess Nick that's like
any um any U condition of approval I mean it would have to come to code enforcement yeah code enforcement is once a year they no I I'm with you but I'm just telling you that you know other than the Good Will and the honesty of
the applicant and the code enforcement there's no other or neighbor complaints if anyone sees something they knows not not yeah in compliance that would be can I ask Mr suas you're back up here
so I'm glad I want to ask you a question can you elaborate on what you did at your prior business so that we have a clear understanding of the process and if they're similar to what you're doing now at this new place thank you that's a good question as I said you know I work
for bab as a research engineer for 20 years then with a US Army as a engineer as well and in 2015 we purchased the dealership all sales so the group from 15 until 23 you know
we had the office at the 1209 Highway 9 selling cars just like what we try to do now you have did you have repairs at the time there and things like that like your did you have similar services to what you're proposing ex the same
Services we never had any citation as far as you know with ordinances violating the ordinances did you detail your cars at the other facility there was a car was right across us there yeah we used to go there was only $99 for it
what's the closest car wash to your to this facil this property sure but uh uh there is one on Route 33 in Freehold uh yeah there's a couple miles up the road
service the prose as far as the prose if it says no car washing and we put that in if we approved the application and we put it on record any any time anybody makes a complaint code enforcement has to go so he could be going weekly if
he's washing cars and that's the enforcement that is always done yeah but if the doors are down who's who's seeing if a car is being washed in there or not it could be a customer that's there and walks inside because he has an office I don't think he's going to wash him
because he's going to fill a septic tank up and have a problem yeah you know I can see him taking a little bucket of water and wind something but if it's a full Car Wash it's got to go to the car wash and if he doesn't abide by that he's
only hurting himself and he'll have a code enforcement come in regularly I'm sure his neighbor's going to complain every time he does it he'd be looking out the window well he has a lot of cameras yes cameras okay so yeah cuz
I'll kind of follow up Nick I we have approved many applications where we have that unknown where the applicant once they're approved we can't there's no way we just have to sometimes they take his word and it has to be in writing but I
mean we can assume that he's going to be doing it and I understand he may may do it but I don't know where we draw the line there yeah it's I mean what would it take to put drains in like can I ask them something you know what do I need to do can I ask so you don't have to go
through excuse Charlie what do you so I can't tell you like they certainly put drains in the building and tie it it into the septic system but like that would be something I think the representation that Mr s put on the record is Board of Health approved the change in use just for like the building having bathrooms right the building
having bathrooms versus the building having drains and taking like continuous runoff from washing is a different septic demand and requirement so that would be something that they would have to review and approve I would venture maybe the septic system that's there right now probably can't handle that
when we have seen you know I think the property that the applicants talking about that he used to operate from we did see a a truck car dealership come in that property and they had a washing Bay but they were tied into the sanitary sewer so like you know they're paying for all that to go to the public Sewer Septic System is different it's designed
for your bathroom and washing and you know taking a shower it's not designed for a commercial Car Wash is this a I don't think they're operating a commercial Car Wash here but certainly uh we have had other applications where there's been the unknown and really
comes down to code enforcement I think if they are washing outside the building it's going to be pretty apparent and the neighbor you know seems to be interested party in this if they're seeing something that's not happening in accordance with their approval they can certainly bring that to the Township's attention and then it would be a code
enforcement matter if they're putting floor drains in the building it would be something that would have to be shown at the time of building permits and hopefully it would get flagged at that time um that that wasn't something that was contemplated with the application and then obviously they have a
residential tenant on there I would think also if there's an issue with the septic system not functioning properly because they're doing car washing on site I would think that they would pick up the phone and either call the town or they would you know call the applicant and say hey there's an issue going on so
the only other thing I want to add Mr bro and I Echo everything Mr K said is there's a little bit of another layer on this in that there is Health Department oversight to some extent as well if they see floor PLS that have a floor drain in it one of their first comments and Charlie you can back me up on this is
where's that floor drain going do not connect it to the septic system so there is another layer of a little bit of protection there in that health department will not allow the floor drains to be connected either so so there won't be any detailing even
outside is that what that's what would be put in the resolution if I think they agreed to no car washing on the site in totality inside or outside inside or outside okay thank you thank you there's nothing else um I'd like to
entertain a motion motion to close no uh public or vote I think we already closed to the public okay so what we going we're going to look uh what's the pleasure of the board um I'd like to make a motion
um this case has been very comp comprehensive case the uh applicant has uh agreed to do everything we wanted him to do and he has many other uh dealings with the Department of uh transportation
for the driveway and he's willing to do everything that we asked him to do and I'm making a motion to approve this application based on all the facts and everything that we've agreed upon Mr chair just to reiterate along with Mr odonnell uh we talked about the
concrete uh concrete of the parking lot under that front portion uh the fence on the side for sure for the neighbor and also uh like an like what Mr bro was talking about the elf shaped kind of fence kind of divide the the residents from from the
business to give them a little feeling of of a backyard there um and no washing onsite we just talked about with all those things and all the other facts I will second that no car carriers oh yeah no car carriers other yeah well we did mention the one that
smaller tra trailer car carriers right right yeah no yeah no tractor trailer uh with that I'll second Mr O'Donnell's motion okay okay we had a first and second by Mr Howard iene roll
call Mr burillo yes Mr Hughes yes Mr odonnell yes Mr Rosco yes Mr Ryan Mr sukus just wants to sell cars and I think that's a very good idea um however he brought his intentions to
a group of individuals and I feel that coming in with a statement of conditional use which was was contrary to what they wanted to do and that was put forward here today about the problem with the driveway about the buffers not being
addressed I think it led to a lot more closer examination than really was necessary if this was brought in properly expanded and and drawn out but that being said his notion of still selling cars I think is a noble one and I vote
Yes Miss scotson yes and chairman Martens yeah Mr Ryan your point I agree bring cards to the table will deal them when you come in okay and based on all defining the facts with
with Mr Howard said and everything that's been put on record I vote Yes as well before we application is approved I only sent them at 6 o' so I don't think they have time to review it what oh I I i' had been working on two
resolutions but they got submitted to the board L like for prior applications I thought they were getting on but we could I sent them at 6 o'cl to everyone because I got them around then so I didn't say didn't think that was enough time to
review yeah I'll wait for the next game okay I didn't see yeah oh wait I apologize okay no no worries I got scared okay so thank you all very much for okay
thank you your good question thank you so much Lu you put another W okay good luck thank you okay at this time we have a meeting on I believe the 24th of Monday what do
we have there we do do have that pool application we have to try to get that on first and then we have two use variances correct yes okay I guess I'll bring my uh
Sleeping Bag okay well at this time um unless there's anything else from the board I would entertain a motion to close motion to close okay all in favor night