I don't want to do that. 5:30 on the dot. I will call the regular city of White Lakes council meeting for Monday, August 25th at 5:30 to order. Roll call, please. Council Grass here. Darla here. Eman here. Madison here. Mayor Scott
here. Please stand for the pledge of allegiance. I pledge allegiance to the flag of the United States of America and to the republic for which it stands, one nation under God, indivisible, liberty and
justice for all. All right, moving on to the consent agenda. Anybody have any comments or questions regarding any of that? Is anyone going to the State of the Range event? But you got the invitation,
put this in the packet. September 17 during the No, it's at 4. Speakers start at 4:45. Wonder if anyone here was going
I think I just put in my phone. I think I went last year. I think I went to some meeting at the uh at the map but I don't know. Did you go to like the brownfield thing or was that
Oh, I did. I was the brownfield thing. Um, yeah, I might go to it. Wednesday's almost I don't think I looks like you have reason tickets by next week. Free ticket. I'm sure.
Yeah, it's free, but limited space is available. That' be good if someone if someone attended. Yeah. Yes. I work at a beginning, so I could probably try another one. I'll make a note of that. Anybody else have anything on for the
consent agenda? Um, hearing nothing, I'll ask for a motion to accept the consent agenda as written. So, we have a motion from councelor Java. Is there anybody that I'd like to second that? We have a second from councelor Grahams.
All those in favor? I. Any opposed? Hearing none. Motion carried. Moving on to the guests and citizens forum. Um before we ask Shane um to step up to the stand, is there anybody else that has anything to to share? Any questions or anything? All right. Hearing none. Can
Shane, you not anything I need to do? Sounds like I don't think it is on. Um we we each have a packet. Um got there's just very good acoustics here. that's coming back at me. So, uh, yes. So, yeah, the first programming notes
just the one you noted there. I sent some PowerPoint slides in advance. Uh, Dean let me know we'd have to go through them on paper. So, we'll still kind of follow those assuming they're uh helpful. And then the the second one is uh the uh I knew when we scheduled this
or as my kind of travel plans came together, I I figured out I'm going to arrive in town and at city hall here, right, as you guys were in a public forum. So, I I appreciate being put first on the agenda. So, in the event I'd get back on the road, but since I uh
haven't met a lot of you and didn't have a chance to get in town early enough to uh shake your hands, make some small talk, I'm going to plan to hang around through the meeting and and uh have the opportunity if you have questions, just want to chat oneonone, whatever there is, I'll hang around for the rest of the meeting before I hit the road. So, those
are my my two programming notes before we get going. And uh the other than the uh uh title slide and what I I sent the first uh of uh the slides in that presentation, it's kind of an introduction of me and the the firm I work with and then we'll talk about the the coalition of utility cities which is
really why I'm here uh today. So uh again my name is Shane Zart uh with the firm Flarity and Hood. So we're a law and government relations firm uh based right across from the capital in St. Paul cuz that's where we have to be cuz our job is to best legislators uh all
day. But really our firm's history and our bread and butter is representing communities outside of the 7ount metro area. Uh so in many cases bringing the voice of rural uh primarily local governments uh to the capital. Uh the uh uh so in that context and kind of on
that backdrop uh we've worked with a number of uh groups. I know you uh all are members of or at least are aware of uh various local government groups that operate at the capital. You got League of Cities, Coalition of Greater Minnesota Cities. We also work with uh
there's other, you know, regional groups and uh and the like. Uh and then there's a lot of uh kind of special purpose groups like the Coalition of Utility Cities uh is one of those. So, um we'll kind of move in right into it. Uh what
is the coalition of utility cities and and why is white lakes a member? Uh so the the coalition utility cities is an organization of seven uh cities that all host large investor owned power plants. So to cut right to it, the reason why is
a member is because of Alaskan. Uh what brings uh each of the the communities together that have been members of this organization are uh not just the fact that the plant sits here, but really what it means to your tax capacity. So, uh, the ballpark figures that that we've
often used over the years is for each of our communities, uh, that that hosts a a large power generation facility. Uh, that plant alone and some of the taxable property related to it often makes up anywhere from 30 to 75% of the the
city's tax base on its own. Uh and uh what uh many of you uh probably also know uh is that power plants, pipelines, and railroads are kind of in their own category of taxation. They're not assessed like your house is or like a a business a local business is by the
county and that value gets passed on to you. Uh power plants, pipelines, and railroads. my short hand for it, but those three categories uh are the the primary uh types of property that make up uh what's state assessed by the so
the Minnesota Department of Revenue. The state actually values those assets, passes along that value to the counties, trickles down to you. Uh and uh so uh as you can imagine when you've got the the state in control of those valuations uh
the assessment processes that that feed into them and you've got uh at the local level those properties making up such a significant part of your tax base uh what that means is any policy change that the legislature makes in these categories any change that the the
department of revenue makes uh related to these properties can have a huge impact on you, your local budget. Uh but really and uh what we'll talk about a little bit here through by way of an example is uh it's all about protecting your other property taxpayers. So your
uh folks live in town and the the smaller businesses that operate in town. So uh moving on uh kind of in your slides there, the uh one of the examples I I kind of brought um to uh uh to
discuss with folks. I think it's good kind of illustrative example of you know why this group exists that'll work uh the issues that uh the coalition of utility cities is looking out for and advocating on that uh that otherwise uh may not have a voice in the capital. Uh
a good example of that popped up for us in January of 2024. Uh so the department of revenue uh in January of that year, last year put out a a notice by way of an email uh that just said uh the department of
revenue is exploring taking all properties in those categories. So again, shorthanding it, power plants, pipelines, railroads uh and uh moving that away from what the current assessment practices are. We don't need to get into the weeds of those. I just know that they were going to move from the system we've got to a brand new
system that would have operated on gross operating revenues. So the do would have looked at a company's gross operating revenues, come up with a brand new valuation formula. The details of that don't really matter for this discussion. All that we cared about uh if that's anytime a change is
made to the assessment practices that ultimately lead into the value what the Alaskan plant for example contributes to your local tax base. uh there's a a big uh threat there. Uh now uh over the years I think our communities have have
fought as much as anyone to make uh changes to the current assessment practices. That's not to say that we're happy with uh the current state of affairs do. Uh but with something like this that's initiated by the state uh kind of surprised everyone, caught
everyone off guard. Uh our charge is we need to understand this as fast as possible. We're going to participate. we're going to push back uh and uh uh know ultimately what does this mean for our community and for your taxpayers. Uh so the uh what uh uh kind of fast
forwarding uh what that email set off was really a crash course in uh trying to stop something that was moving at a state agency level uh without anyone knowing. So I've been involved uh uh
bullish utility cities and uh some of our member cities you know meeting with P directly uh forming research on our own to understand what this might mean for our communities uh and then submitting written comments or you know
ultimately helping uh push for doses on this whole process uh which they first did. They said, "You know what?" They started this in January of 2024. They first scared everyone that they're going to try to make a legislative change that legislative session. Uh so the first delay was they said, "Okay, we've heard
everyone. This isn't moving forward now. We're going to push all this conversation off into the summer after session. Don't worry, we got to have more discussion." Then uh what that enabled us to do was additional research. Uh you know, uh move those discussions forward without the threat
of an immediate legislative change. uh but also to understand what we know about uh that data and what we don't know and uh uh one of the things that that do a good job of rolling out was uh uh the very very high level of how they
might calculate the new values but they did a very poor job of was producing anything that would give us any sense of okay we see where you're trying to go but how's that compared to the current state of repairs so if I take your new system you're proposing versus what is currently in place that already
contributes to white lakes tax capacity for example. Uh you know how do I understand the difference? How do I know what this means for any individual community? Uh so what uh uh they were uh ultimately uh judged to do was by
November of 2024 uh what we had worked out with them is to produce a five-year look back document. So go back the past five years with real data. we have the real data for the current system for those five years obviously because uh they were assessed and taxed and those dollars have already been collected.
Well, run the hypothetical compare. Had the system you're proposing been in place for those 5 years, what would it have meant for these communities? What would the difference have been? And uh the gap in tax capacity that would have meant for a lot of our communities
current system versus what they're proposing was incredibly stark. So what drove their reason for doing that shift? Yeah. So the uh you know their um reason for initiating this change was really
frankly their own liability. Uh and uh the there's two uh ways that that do uh when they produce these values um you know there's two ways that they can become problematic with for the agency
itself. uh and that is uh and some of that trickles down to us. So that is uh you know they first produce a value for what Minnesota Tower and all of its assets that they think it's worth. Uh and uh what the companies then have the opportunity to do is a first an
administrative appeal. Uh so there's an administrative appeal process kind of spelled out in statute that uh Minnesota Power if they wanted to uh could initiate saying we think you got it wrong. You you valued us at this. here's what our numbers say, here's our case,
uh, and go through that administrative process is really just kind of a negotiated administrative settlement uh, between the company and the agency kind of happens in a a a black box and at the end of it what spits out is often a new agreed upon value. So that's one way uh
that those values can change. Uh the second way is that uh in some cases uh and this uh be very familiar to some folks in this room uh they've been sued on their valuations and that includes you know very very notably uh some of
the suits over uh lawsuits from roughly um you know tax years from you know uh at this point what 13 9 to 13 years ago in there about Nbridge pipeline valuations. Uh so those were cases where Enbridge challenged their valuations in
tax court. Uh one uh that was subject to multiple multiple appeals. Ultimately the state legislature ended up coming in kind of filling in the gap is uh you know the counties and cities that received those tax revenues uh had long collected them and spent them on providing local services and that. So
it's really a long answer to say DR is trying sick of being sued and trying to avoid being sued. They would like to find a system that pushes any of the discretion the current valuation process off of them. Uh, one of the things though that I think scared us about this
particular approach that they landed on is that it does really eliminate discretion in the uh the system, but it gives more control over where that discretion is to the companies in some cases in our uh in our estimation. So, does that kind of answer your question?
The short version is there's being sued. So I I talked a lot, but did I get to the the not there? Yeah. It's I worked in that system for years. So I I I it just strikes me that to transfer that tax liability to
everybody else who's taking a big burden off of Department of Revenue. Yeah. And for what? Yeah. Yeah. uh you know they're if you kind of take it at face value the uh system that that they
gross operating revenues um the uh what they uh would tell you is that especially if you build some things like some rolling averages yeartoear uh we'll see far fewer fluctuations uh
between years uh that uh you know the data uh that feeds into that was agreed upon in advance in many cases. So the gross operating revenue, some of the accounting data that feeds into that comes from the companies themselves. It's verified by do but some of the
inputs into the valuation system are kind of verified on the front end or external to do rather than uh you know some of the current approaches. I think what the companies might tell you is do kind of takes in a lot of data then they come up with the value on their own and
then we all fight about it later. So, uh, kind of taking it at face value. I think they're, you know, again, trying to, uh, they're sick of being sued, trying to push off, uh, some of that discretion so that, uh, um, you know, there's more objectivity, I think, is
how they would phrase it, in the valuations that are produced by them. Your numbers show 628,500 plus, which would mean that that burden would then be paid by everybody in this room. Yes. and all the commercial properties
in town also. Yes. That would add that much to everybody's perhaps. Yeah. Yes. Yeah. So that uh and those numbers were incredibly uh striking I think and uh this community was an example where uh those numbers
were big and they were negative. Uh then to be honest too, there were a couple members of the coalition of utility cities uh that uh had moved from current system to uh system DO was proposing would either be roughly held harmless or
see you know slight positive bump in the short term. But universally uh all seven of the communities uh that uh you know the folks that we spoke with were skeptical opposed of of this. uh I we have folks from even those communities that uh wouldn't see such a negative
impact say it's not worth it. It's going to hurt our other coalition members. We also sure we may look like we uh make out okay in the short term on this but you know what comes 5 years from now. Uh that's not to say anyone likes do's current system or the the valuations
that uh or you know year-to-year instability that can come along with it. Uh but it is really the devil we know in and some of that. So, um, but yes, that's, uh, the numbers you referenced were on on page six. That comes from November 2024. That's actually some data
that do produced. Uh, that's what I think the local government's responding to this, pushing back on it. Uh, that was the biggest thing we wanted to see is what does this mean? Uh, you know, what would this mean for a community like Lakes, for any community that's going to go through this? Uh, the document itself, I think, is uh, well, I
put a little asterisk there on the the sheet. uh and uh that data I cited appears on page 117 of that document. So it's not just the power plant communities. It's not just it's almost every city in the state is on that document. Uh and five times because they
go through five different tax years what it would look like uh in those for uh I just pulled one of those out because it was one of the more recent ones. Uh so that was for assessment year 24 taxes payable 25 and that's what do's number said this would have been meant for
white lakes was uh 628,000 shift um and according to them uh um yeah that's a change of uh 31.34 uh I believe was to the negative um so those I think this example popping up
last year and uh coalition kind of being a part of fighting it back was the quickest and most recent example I could give to you of uh you know what does this group do? Why do we exist? And are there just because power communities are so deeply impacted by some of these uh
potential changes. There's uh uh you know things that uh voices that we can bring to the table that others maybe can't. Uh and uh so where do things stand now? um in early 2025. So in this legislative session just this point I
just concluded uh sparked up uh the do give an update to the Senate tax committee about this process uh you know it was very high level informational acknowledge some of the concerns they' heard tried to massage that oh don't you know we're not proposing legislation
just now don't don't scare anyone uh but I don't want to say that this is gone forever I think we're remaining in close contact with the staff um you know there's still interested in potentially looking at other solutions. They're not wedded to this one anymore. I don't think I think we've successfully beat
this one back uh at least raised enough questions about uh you know what uh what this would look like or that there's a lot of caution before anything moves forward. Uh but uh but some legislators during that hearing expressed interest in that too and said, you know, they
didn't say that the perfect solution. They get it that it would hurt communities in the short term. Uh but there is legislative desire too to uh potentially look at different ways of assessing this type of property just because the current system can be so volatile uh too. So um the uh where I I
think I'll kind of comment there and just back up a little bit. One of the reasons I'm here is uh because uh uh you know Dean you're to your role. Uh we had a long tradition I've mentioned this group or maybe I didn't mention but it's in the slides. This group's been around
since 1998. Uh we've had a good tradition of Foy Lakes uh you know working closely with with you all and I when I started it was uh Mayor Skelton and then Mayor Breland uh and then since then we've had good relationship with
staff. Uh but a lot of uh but Dean's new to his role. We've had some new faces on the council and frankly it's been a long time since I stood in this spot. So, I had to get myself back up here. Um, and I want to talk more, give you a lot of more context about what this group is, why the city has historically been a
part of it. Uh, but I know maybe other than staff receiving the emails about this uh process last year. Uh most recently what I remember uh Hoy Lakes weighing in on was a legislative proposal in in uh 2023 that would have
said any you know new energy utility scale battery storage projects are exempt completely from uh property taxes. And now that was something we had a little concern about because anytime you exempt anything utility scale property taxes we have some questions.
Uh I I do remember uh the then administrator having some conversation with then representative uh uh Liz Lagard who was the chair of the property tax division in the uh the house at the time and uh had a big impact I think on
how he and some of his colleagues were were thinking about that too. Sorry. Um, now one of the the things I'll transition to uh and just uh give you some very very quick context on because we have questions and I went long and answering that question but so I'll
maybe blaze through the rest of this. Uh so we'll talk a little bit about the group's work because one of the things we've been focused on too is plant retirements and preparing uh the coal communities our group. you know, a lot of them are seeing either plant retirements for uh White Lakes was actually on the front end of this with a
cold to gas conversion out of Alaskan. Now, the same thing or a similar thing, not quite the same. Uh there's a lot of unanswered questions. Uh it is uh maybe on the table for passage in the coming years. But before we get to to I touch on some of that, maybe it's a good time to pause for questions since I've thrown
a lot at you giving you some examples. Anything else I can address before we move on? Okay. Excellent. So the uh the rest of my uh presentation there um you know talks about some of the the
recent work we've done. And when I say recent uh you know some of this really started around about 2015 but really really kicked up uh around the the kind of 2020 to to 2023 time frame. uh but more around the idea of uh you know the
we've talked about how significantly these facilities utility property and being a host of large generation contributes to local tax base talked about the system you know year to year that do administers but uh you know a lot of our communities I mentioned uh
white lakes coal to gas conversion some of the other communities are being faced with okay what are what happens when these plants go away completely and uh I mentioned 2015 because that's when XL energy announced that they were going to try to cease coal operations at the uh their largest coal plant facility in
Becker uh decades before the end of what had been that that plant's license um saw similar thing over at Boswell and Bohassid where two of the four coal units have retired and the other two are are now being scheduled for retirement. Uh so what uh uh with that I think what
we we started to look at was for all of our communities whether or not your plant is going away uh what are the things that we can put in place to either create new or distinct economic development tools specifically for power plant communities. uh how can we address some of the gaps that we've had when uh
uh our communities go to the state and you're working on a project and uh you've got uh whether it's transportation project or or uh uh economic development project and you mentioned to whoever your contact is at MIDOT or Dean at wellin we're a host community so we've got this feature in
our tax base or we've got this related to the power plant and they have no idea what you're talking about we what can we do to to address some of that and And uh more directly though is there direct taxbased support we can provide at the time of plant retirement
or uh conversion and uh uh this is where I'll kind of shorthand uh all of this because on kind of each of those three legs of the stool uh we've been able to have some legislative success just in the past few years. So for one um we were able to create kind of model
loosely on an office that was created in Colorado. Uh what deed has is called the office of energy transition. Uh so the it's called the office of energy transition. It sounds big and it sounds like they're the ones working on uh building solar farms or whatever. They're not. This may be just a uh
slightly inaccurate name. the their office of energy transition really is specifically focused on local governments and workers that are impacted by uh the transition away from uh our our legacy plans. Uh so that's housed within deed. Uh they have an executive director named Carla Vita.
Dean, I'm calling your name again because Carla said that she's been bugging you guys. So Dean has been telling me that they I think that White Lakes could have valuable perspective in you know some of this work as a a
community that has a gas plant currently but has converted from from coal to gas. Uh but along with that office and this is another leg of the stool. I mentioned economic development tools. Uh the we were able to work with the legislature to create something called the energy community energy transition grant
program. Uh so that has been a little bit of a winding road. Uh it was actually created in 2020, but because there was no general fund money at the time. Uh that was early in the CO dates. The state had said it had no general fund money. They put a small seed amount
in there from an account that only XL Energy host communities could access. That wasn't my idea. Trust me, that was just the bucket that the legislature had available to it that wasn't the general fund. Uh but in 2023, we were able to put $10 million more dollars into that
program uh which has gotten out and uh to uh for power plant communities to do uh it's meant to be kind of a flexible uh grant program. So if you're uh uh doing a long range planning because your plant may retire someday, uh it's there for that. If your plans retiring
tomorrow and you need to deliver an economic development project, it's also meant for that. I think it drives DE a little crazy how flexible it is because they get cities throwing all kinds of ideas at them. Uh but we for us that was intentional and uh our role as the coalition utility cities representing
you is to argue that you're special and one of the reasons or one of the ways in which that program is special is that it can do things similar to some other DE programs but there's no local match required for uh those dollars. So uh the again I mention was funded in 2023.
uh uh we had a couple of different legislators throw in bills to put more money into it this legislative session. It was one of the many things that uh was funded in 23 with the state facing a a long-term deficit here in the uh not
too distant future didn't receive additional funding into it. So that would be unfinished business for us to put more money back into that next legislative session if we can. Uh but there may still be uh you know a small amount of dollars left in there. I say call lead and see what they can do for
you if uh uh uh the uh if you have a project that might fit. Uh the final one is uh the electric generation transition aid. So that's a a program that is uh uh really designed for the end of a plant's life. So, uh, a kind of feature of
being, uh, state assessed means that, uh, power plants when you turn them off, and when I say turn them off, I'm being very kind of flip about it, but when they're decommissioned, what it really means is if your plant retires in your community on December 31st of uh, of a year, that January 1st the next year,
that tax capacity is gone. It goes back into an otherwise exempt category. So, we don't want that to happen to anybody. Uh so what we worked with the legislature on in 2023 uh again representative Liz Lagard from this area
was co-author on that at the time uh was a the transition a grant program that uh in the first year after a plant retires the state with basically paid out of the state's general fund a calculated aid program basically fills in the gap from what you would have gotten
had you levied the same with that plant still there because it uh uh uh is no longer in operation. Uh the state fills in that gap and that aid declines over time to about to a maximum of 20 years. Um so that uh program has now been in
law for about 2 years. Uh we've started to see it pay out to some of the communities had um plant retire in that time frame. It's not on the immediate uh docket for for Alaskan plant. I don't mean to imply that. So I don't want to
scare anyone. Uh Minnesota Power has an active integrated resource plan right now. They haven't proposed closing Alaskan. So it's probably important that I say that but uh uh but you know that program is sitting there uh is already working providing some of the global
communities uh but would work and and uh is kind of the backbone of of kind of providing a parachute to communities that host power plants in the event that they retire. So um again I said I was going to be quick through that and then I talked too much again. I guess I'm keeping myself here later since I said
it was going to stay after the meeting, but I'll pause there for questions. My contact information is in the the PowerPoint there or you can get it from Dean. Uh but happy to address anything that uh you'd like further clarification. Do you happen to have any example of
what um some of this energy transition grant monies were used for in any of the communities or you know yeah the uh and I think um you know I kind of alluded to this for some of the
communities have used it for more uh long range strategic planning some have used it for more you know project implementation but it's been used for uh things including on the infrastructure side for the buildout of industrial parks. Um I think one city relocated a
water man to enable development to go into a certain lot. uh and uh uh but some of the communities that are maybe have uh closer to 8 10 years or you know maybe aren't scheduled for their plan to retire just yet have said you know let's we'll use this as an opportunity to um
get some things on paper maybe do uh some of the um well the types of studies of uh our available land but site selectors or others like to see when they consider locating a new business um and have deed fund that 100%. So, um,
but that's I I'll get you the list. That's all right. I'm just curious. I was on the other call with their deeds last week or the week before that process a little bit. Yeah. Did they give you a sense? Sorry to throw a question back. No, they give you a sense that there's money still sitting there for you.
No, I didn't get that sense at all. But yeah, that's a good question. We can get you that list, too. or he can ask Carlo. Does anybody else have any questions for Shane? I don't have any off the top of my head.
Yeah, we have a contact information. So, yeah, things come to mind. We're free to email you. Absolutely. Yeah, email or call or uh because I heard it mentioned at least right now it's on my calendar to be back up here for that state of arrangement. So if you do end up attending, we can
connect there. We have one or two more questions if you don't mind. No, sure. So, so when we talked earlier, you mentioned because it's in the agenda tonight for to join or be our membership for this year, right? Y and you mentioned something about a um
reimbursement that they g back to us if to kind of wash out membership fees for this year. Can you speak to that a little bit? I absolutely can. Thanks for the reminder. And uh um one of the things that uh I guess is we'll say good news uh too especially during budget season
uh this year is uh you know um this group uh is membership driven. So sets its own budget, assesses itself, dues. Uh we went through that process uh in uh late June. Uh but one of the things that kind of confronted the group this year
is we had some really really active years like I mentioned from 2020 to 2023 uh where the group had a lot of expenses. Uh they had you know a little bit of a larger budget. They reached a point this June
uh where uh the uh because of all that activity then and then we actually had more of a we'll call it a maybe a less active year or more defensive year where we've more of a defensive posture uh expended less resources the last about year and a half or so. Uh so in the June
meeting the group made a decision uh it has a dupes rebate policy that basically says if we have a budget overage of x amount we can consider rebating some of that back as it worked out for most communities uh in uh including uh white lakes uh the amount available to rebate
the communities that the group approved almost equals your next year dues. So I guess one way of saying that it's not totally accurate is you almost get a year free for next year. So, uh, I'm reading it off my phone screen, so I I'll make sure to, uh, confirm this. Uh,
but I think the, uh, the difference between what it'll be rebated back, uh, and what next year's, uh, dues, uh, will be from, uh, uh, that'll be assessed or would be assessed for for going forward
in in 2026 membership uh, would be uh, $282. So, uh, that means got the dues are u a, uh, you know, a few thousand typically or or closer more in the range of $4,000.
Again, raising my phone screen. Uh, but it basically washes out for the the coming year uh, with the rebates the group did. So, I think when when Dean and I talked uh, two, I think what kind of said was, you know, that's good timing for that. Not only because I know
a lot of cities are facing budget pressures right now, but uh we've got a lot of uh uh new faces from staff and some elected uh that uh we'd love to get more involved in this work and if that takes some of the budget pressure off of of being able to do that, you know, that's uh fantastic. So, um yes, thanks
for thanks for the reminder, Ne. We have one or two. Do you have a second one or just one? Yeah, I agree. They're being new. Um, and and a lot of some of the southerners are kind of there's also the coalition of greater Minnesota cities, which I know you're a
part of as well. Can What's the relationship there? What's the difference between I know you guys are this group is focused on utility cities, but are you what's the relationship between the coalition of greater Minnesota cities and the coalition of utility cities if you don't know?
Sure. Yeah. The uh really the the short answer is that there there really isn't one. Uh the um only tie is that I happen to have a role in and working a little bit with both. So that the two organizations aren't tied to each other. Uh they both happen to be association
with local governments that lobby on certain issues at the at the capital. Um but uh our firm you know Clarity Hood like I mentioned does provide some lobbying services to B. Um, so the only uh to give you a more complete answer, I
think the only time there's been a formal relationship is when the Coalition of Greater Minnesota Cities has uh some more complex property tax data models and they've authorized the Coalition utility cities to use them from time to time, but that's that's
about it. So other than my involvement as kind of staff compared to contracted staff, um that's really the only tie between those. Uh I would say you know this group is smaller more focused on these particular issues that impact smaller number of communities. Coalition of greater Minnesota cities is more of a
kind of sister organization to the league. Uh although not affiliated but kind of counterpart organization to the league that focuses exclusively or explicitly on rural issues or ones that impacted cities in greater Minnesota. So if that was more help.
All right. I didn't know if the subsidiary or what we do know they're similar. So yeah. Yeah. Know uh and uh yeah the bullish and greater Minnesota cities works on some tax based issues certainly
LGA certainly some economic development issues but doesn't do any of the work related to the utility cities or state assessed property or or any of that. for those. Anybody have any other questions for Shane?
All right, hearing none, we'll move on. Thank you for taking the time to head up here and thank you for letting me take up so much your time. Thank you. Moving on from the guest and citizens forum to reports from staff, city administrator.
Um I'll keep it short, but u you'll see coming up further. I met I did meet with BC3 Cory from BC3 and we recoded those the computer systems. Uh so well we'll get into look at the code but instead of going with three new towers we go with
the tower and laptop and and just go with the and get rid of one one computer all together. That's not upgrading or updating. So you'll see that in the quote. Um had a good meeting with him. That was great. I spent a couple hours here going through our systems and explaining what we have, what we need to
do, and what we should do. So, um, [Music] we did the process hazard awareness training for the ammonia plant at the last week. Everybody that needed to be there was there going to I mean she was riveted by the presentation of
documentation that go into prostate hazardous awareness training and sure um which I've been through before mechanic interviews uh last week we'll look for recommendation from council or hiring committee today on that and
uh that's about it meeting with the after meeting tomorrow I'm meeting with have go through kind of the budget process and levy process with him since he's got years experience doing it. So that's all right. Thank you.
All right, moving on to EMS director Mstead. Um I don't have much on the ambulance. I did hear from um who is building their ambulance in uh Quebec and Canada. Um we're expecting it hopefully in
September. Um there was some confusion. We have a new um rep for them and there was confusion from the last one who said we were we received the ambulance in June. So they're kind of feeling bad about it. So they've offered to fly me
out to do the final walk through in person versus doing it via Zoom. Um so I quickly removed my passport and got that back already. Well, um that maybe happened. I think it was like September 27th something. They
fly me out on Monday and come back Wednesday and all expenses paid for me and my guest. Are you are you the top half? Yes. Okay. 27th is a Saturday. Well, it's somewhere around there. He
just emailed me actually after I left work. So, I just plans but end of September regardless. Um but I'm a future goes on answer it. It's about it for the list and um I'm
just here to answer any questions for the pension for partner program. See if you can make it. All right. Lucky you trips. Okay. Right. Um moving on to the city attorney of the wiki. Anything from you? No, nothing.
Okay. Thank you. Moving on to reports from elected officials. Councelor Gr. Um, nothing tonight. No. Councelor Carol. Uh, the only thing I've got is I missed the planning and zoning or planning commission meeting the other night. I was stuck working out at my
property in Brimson and we're at a point I couldn't leave. So, apologize for missing that one. No worries. Um, moving on to councelor Ecman. Nothing at this time.
Sounds good. Councelor Mat, nothing. And I don't have anything. Hold on. Nothing. Norm. Um, nothing's for old business, new business. Um, 11.1 of Greater Minnesota City's membership.
So, everyone has you get this email or a letter or Yeah. Yeah, that must be a mail or even Yeah, this one I want to talk about just as more of a reminder because here but um we could table this because it's not due until February if you if you want
but we find more available this we haven't been for a while but since 2022 actually so I was going to ask how long have we been it's been a while it's been a while since we've actually been we still get the mailings and all the information what they're doing the last we were a
part of it So we're not paying some barely spending um and we have different um lobbyists like through Rams like reading through some of the things that they um lobby for advocate for um like
the LGA stuff, the EMS stuff. That's things that Rams um sounds like that they um lobby for. So, I think there's some overlap there. We can table it if folks want um if they
want to look into it a little bit more. Um or we can decide to join and pay the dues or not join and not pay the dues. Um open to anything that folks want to do. I make a motion to table it later date.
So yeah, we can just table it. Um just send um yeah, that we have a bit of time before we have to decide pay those dues. So yep, we can table that. Yes, it is.
Um moving on to 11.0. No. So we can we can just it go too. Sounds good. 11.2 Minnesota small cities membership.
Um another this one I couldn't find any history of belonging to. So it's an invitation membership. This was small cities. I think we found one time back in phase 2019. I think you're a member, but that
still were not currently a member. I know when we went to the League of Minnesota Cities conference, they had representatives there. Um I don't really talking and I know a lot of other small cities were members of it. So I'm not sure what benefits are, but
maybe we could see their list of membership and contact another of the smaller cities and see if it benefits everyone. You might want to join every group, but it I mean some of this stuff is beneficial, right? Agree. You say only
[Music] it's an invitation invitation so that we don't pay to you know yeah but yeah I don't see any sort of hard deadlines for what information we
I guess I'm kind of the same way of finding out what other city and chat and see if they're done. Um table and then maybe people just shoot them, you know, just
in right. Yeah, I did look into a little bit when you make a better decision. Okay. Maybe on their website they have the listing
yeah we can that one too until we get some more info on that. Um moving on to 11.3 coalition of utility cities from Minnesota just off the presentation.
So this is for membership um as Shane had explained um there's a rebate piece of it. Um, so we would be looking at um for dues $282 that rebate. Do we join and then we get the rebate, right? Or
um pay or do whichever you're the rebate will be issued one way or another. Uh so I guess however you guys want to do it bookkeeping wise is is just fine with me. But yeah, if you do
choose to join, uh just know whether they're separate transactions or all one that rebate check or we come in two. Um I can double check too with the group's treasurer and and see if I can get an update on timing for that. So So the city would have to write the
check for 5,200 bucks to get the rebate and then have the total payment be 282. um the uh because it's coming well I should say just to be extra clear you don't have to write the next check in
order to get the the rebate so the the group because you've been members uh in the years that uh uh you know leading up to the the group um issuing those rebates uh that rebate check has already been approved by the the membership so that's something that the membership at
it meeting in June decided to do uh and uh I think that you know Dean we're really only linking the things uh because uh uh you know they roughly offset. So it's kind of one way to think about so you don't have to do anything in order to receive the rebate check. Uh, and I was more saying, you know,
it's a it's kind of up to you bookkeeping wise, uh, if, uh, you want to write the the check in full, uh, and then wait for that rebate or get the rebate in the door and then, uh, you know, uh, write the the check. Uh or I
guess I could talk to the group treasurer and as long as the uh he's not already written the check. Maybe we could offer the option of he just uh keeps that money in the the uh group's coffers and then you only make the the payment for the smaller amount if that's
what you would prefer. I just don't know uh timing wise where that's at. But time shot next year it goes back up to four or $5,000 for the membership. Um, unless the group decides to issue additional rebates of membership dues.
Yeah. Do you have a preference either way for booking? No, I don't really I think it'll work either way. I mean, it's cleaner cleaning the way. Is it if it's cleaner for you or just reinvoice with the difference?
That would be nicer. Yep. No, it's not. No preference at all I think on the on the group side but uh and I can double check in direct judge with the group treasurer too if we want to work it out that way.
I would make a motion to join the coalition and utility cities and leave it up to the two finance departments how the check gets how the finances happen. But yeah, I would make a motion that we join and we belong before. Yep. We have current
and current. Yeah. Okay. Okay. We got a few. [Music] Um, so you have a motion from councelor Grams, but just to to join and then deem their financial just agreeing to however they do bookkeeping wise. So we have a motion
from councelor Gr. Is there anybody that'd like to second? Second. Got a second from councelor Ecman. All those in favor? I. Any opposed? Hearing none. Motion carried. Um, moving on to 11.4
point request for seasonal shower pass. Um, discussion. Um, so I received a request form in the mail. Um, so somebody living um town a little bit north in town. Um,
no, he says he lives he used to live here. Oh, he used to live. He's got some land on rivers. Oh, okay. Okay. So, he stays at says that him and some other people that live out there um haven't visited the the point um and
made note of signers saying that um people that are visiting that aren't campers um can't show there. Um, so he's requesting that um that the council just look at considering um kind of some sort
of even pass for using the showers. You know, I've been to other campgrounds when I've camped or attended festivals where you do pay to use their facilities. You just go there and check in at the office and pay however much you know it is to use the shower. I
mean, as long as they're paid to use it, I provide you couldn't, especially when they check in first. So, if the people who are running the campground know who's using it and has their name and does one person come in and say, "This is for my family or does each individual
have to pay a rate to use the shower?" So, I think that'd be a discussion we would have. I mean, I've been to one where it's individual. You say, "Here's my It was years ago, but it was here's my $2. I'm going to go take a shower quick and he shower and leave me. But I appreciate the guy's honesty,
you know, confessing that he used to come here and use the showers for nothing when when they lived out there. And I I I don't know what we'd have to do to set a rate. And how would you do it? Would you give them a punch card? Uh like a a
motel room key pass key to get into a a shower? I don't know what's up. I'm I'm assuming the doors are just unlocked on these shower buildings. Yeah. So, anybody can come in and, you know, they'd have to stop in at the office and pay for
their their rate or pay the rate for a site to cover two or three people at a time. You know, I don't I don't know what utilities they've had or do have out there. I do know um with my years with
the county, a lot of off-grid places had next to streams, even swamps, shallow wells with wooden frames and filters around them where they collected their own water and had a son for bathing and used heated the water, boiled it to
disinfect it. I don't know what his access is out there, but how do we come up with a rate for what to charge for a shower out there for them to use? I think that'd probably be a discussion involving the campground host,
see what they think. And there has I know there has been a lot of use by local people who get their water turned off. They go out there and shower in the past. I don't think it's happened recently, but I know a lot of people have gone out there and showered. I mean, at least they're proposing, hey, let's, you know, charge us and let us
use it. Other others camp outs do. I'm not opposed to it. I just think it'd be a discussion to have with the managers and see what they think and what a fair rate might be. Maybe there's a local pass, you know, like if you're going to be here all summer, here's X amount we pay for a month or it's just an individual fee. There could be two
rates. This this individual, he's on the part where part signals come together right in that area. and he said that he was up there I don't know there's quite a number of cabins down there in hunting sheds but then this suggests with a car annual car but um on
the flip side I don't think it's a bad idea personally but on the flip side I think it also is an enforcement thing that if people are using the showers if they're not camping out there who's deal whatever get past how who's going to follow up on it how are they going to
determine you know is this vehicle belong to somebody that's who the car of the campground or it may help enforce the problem that they're having up there with people squatting in the showers.
Well, a lot of people there's been confrontations out there at least twice this year. people in the showers using them and leaving a a mess and they're not caring. They're not caring, nor are they paying for a shower.
So, if they have to check in and sign their name and go use the shower, at least we have a record of who's there. And they are right by the office, not that they're in the office watching. Yeah. They've got the other one further down the road, too. The new one. Oh, the new one. Yeah.
Yeah. Maybe you put a code on them like our office door and people who are living out or camping out there for the season, they get the code and then that's how you get in to use them. You have to use a keypad. You know, people can't get in there
unless they stop at the office and get the code which can be changed from, you know, monthly or from time to time. That would be a good idea. I think I think it would be more of a Yeah. longer discussion than it now. Yeah,
their conversation with that measures like an afterth. Yeah, probably have a better idea of what ones get used behind their backs and which cuz you got to figure out you got water heat and water usage especially in
cooler weather you know buildings we need it but uh water usage and then cleanup also. Yeah. And if they know that that individual left a mess, you can always resend permission to say, "Hey, yeah, just like anything, if they abuse
it, then they lose their privileges." Well, then they have set hours that they can only use it. The office is open. I mean, cuz they're not open in the morning. That's when most people want to hop in the shower. might have guessed, but if somebody stopped down there to use a
shower and saw a sign that said for guest only and then came and did this, he's not leaving a mess. I appreciate I appreciate for a solution, you know, to go come after us and say, "Hey, what can we do here?" Yeah. You know,
but if they've already had people down there that are not number one, not supposed to be there, number two, leaving a mess, what what does that tell you about that individual? I don't think maybe Dean if you had a talk with the manager ask them to come up with what they thought would be a
fair you know rate or a fair policy based on what they see and then we could have something to review for the next the future meeting see if they'd want to take on that job of you know checking people in or
well currently yeah they do have but for enforcing Yeah, they've been kicking people out of there. Yeah, they're probably spending more time kicking people out and cleaning up than they would by signing someone in. Or if they had a keypad, you know, or
the cost we could get the swipe cards at, you know, fitness center, but that's counting the cost to simple. I mean, I get even what if it started with this guy where like he said, we just gave him like a little pass card
that if someone down there's like I mean, they'll obviously learn who he is relatively quick, but if they question him, he's like, "No, I have the shower pass. I paid for the year, live under trail, and that's something we could do, too." Doesn't sound like he lives out there.
It sounds like he's just on weekends and stuff like that. Recreation property. Yeah. I don't feel like there's going to be a 50 people trying to pump shower down there. You know, I think it's a case by case basis. So maybe just come up with a plan and then as people request it,
we'll have a plan in place. So yeah, I think overall it doesn't sound like anyone's super opposed to it. Um obviously we're ready to do something. Um so yeah, this was just something more so discussed than anything else. Um so um yeah, reaching out to Jen and Brian
to figure out what their thoughts are on the cost and if it's something that um could be managed, right? So um yeah, we'll look at a future meeting to maybe look at formally um adopting some sort of policy or whatever for
people. So moving on to 11.5 home modification permit planning commission is recommendation for that. Um so we have that in our packet. Um anything from you for this? I don't have anything else not on the
first bullet. Um so yeah that first bullet um that explained that the planning commission unanimously supported the approval of this home occupation permit. you know, from this business. Um, so it's just something that we need to discuss and
then build on. Anybody have anything to discuss um for this? I didn't have any questions related to the pack that they provided. Um, no questions, comments. So, does anybody
want to make a motion um to follow the planning commission's recommendation for the approval of the home occupation permit? Motion from counc second from councelor Jarla. All those in favor? Any opposed?
Hearing none motion carried. Um attached to that is 11.6 uh resignation of Mark from the planet commission. You have anything with this team meeting to make a motion to accept the resignation?
Yeah. Um, nothing much to discuss for that. Um, does anybody want to make to accept it? Motion from councelor Treva. Is there anybody that second that second? Second from councelor Ecman. All in favor? I. Any opposed? Hearing none. Motion carried. Moving on
to 11.7. Anything famili? No. Well, we need to post the position. I don't believe anything's changed. I just need motion posted. Fairly straightforward. Now, I have a vacancy and we need to fill that
vacancy. Um, so is there anybody that would like to um make a motion to declare a vacancy for the planning commission and then approval of posting for that position? May motion from councelor Jarville. All those in favor? Any
opposed hearing? None. Motion carried. Moving on to 11.8. Um, hiring committee was recommendation for mechanic um operator. Uh, so Dean Shane,
yeah, I don't have fun. So, yeah, I guess I can give a little overview for that. Um, last council meeting, um, we went over, um, like the the written applications. Um,
Dave is a part of the hiring committee, but since we weren't here, we've had an outlines. So, we want to look at applications after the council meeting. So, Jill filled in for that. So, Dean, Kenny, Jill, and I, um, we interviewed three candidates. They're all really great candidates. Um, definitely
knowledgeable and experienced in the mechanic side of things. Um but with all the the interviews we did um we thought that Tristan Larson was the best applicant um that we had felt um he has a wide variety of experience working on various vehicles um in the military and
then out at the mines. Um I guess personally I was really impressed by his work experience on um vehicles that not many other mechanics have worked on that are important to cities like squad cars and fire trucks. So he did a lot of work up military. Um he also has public works
experience um and has worked for the city before. Um so our recommendation was to hire Tristan Larson for the mechanic heavy equipment operator position. Um anything to add on to that Dean or Jill? Spoiler.
Um anybody have any questions or comments regarding that? All right. Hearing none. Um, I'll ask for a motion to accept the hiring committee's recommendation to hire Tristan Larson for the heavy uh
equipment operator mechanic operator position um with public works just pending that completion of um and passing of the background check and drug test. I'll make that motion from councelor Mat. Is there a second? A second.
We have second from councelor Grahams. All those in favor? I. Any opposed? Hearing none. Motion carried. Moving on to 11.9 uh resolution 2025 022 um acceptance of $600 for the garden club.
Um so we have received um a donation um for the gardens club. Um so we just have to have a resolution to accept that and to provide that to the garden club to use. So is there a motion to um accept that money motion from councelor Charla? Is there anybody I'd like to second
that? All second. We have a second from councelor Mat. All those in favor I any opposed? Hearing none motion carried on 11.10 resolution 2025 0.3 government leans purchase contract for the category
loader. Um anything from you on this? Not necessarily. This virtually the same thing we just signed about two weeks ago for the Toro lawn mower. We already took possession of the caterpillar. So we're just waiting for and we have to have a resolution to the the financing company
along with um the recommendation from council the review of the lease. So that's last few pieces of paperwork so we can get all the paperwork completed on a new path order that's currently here. So yeah I don't know if it's years but
very year um this had been budgeted for and agreed to um to buy. So this is just kind of the last formality of paperwork wise to officially um with that yogurt. Any other questions or comments
regarding um this resolution? All right. Hearing none, I'll ask for a motion to pass resolution 2025 02.3 to agree um or enter into lease purchase contract for decad.
I'll make a motion. Motion from councelor Ecman. Is there anybody I'd like to second that we have a second from councelor Jarla. All those in favor. Any opposed? Hearing none. Motion carried. Moving on to 11201
fire department. Yeah. So we got our um she got in the packet. So basically they break it down what we did last year
what our fund is worth. Uh right now our benefit level is 2100. So you can see on the page for um the city's contribution as $0 got you get a raise to $2,200
to $2,300 and then they ticked me off and skipped all the way to $3,100. So the city has you guys have a rule that we have to be 110% budgeted uh policy.
Um, so between 23 and I had to control all the math in my life. It wasn't that bad. I was only off by my numbers for with uh like two bucks which I thought I did pretty well. Not bad.
Yeah. And last time myself but so yeah, I figured out what 2400 and this is my chicken. I've seen I could take it I know it was going to be public but whatever. Yeah. So I broke it down to what each
one in between then was. So what um we as a department decided was it 26. What did we ask for? 26 2 I thought it was
Yeah. 2600. That 2600 you can see we're still we're still 111% funded. 111.8% eight% funding. So what we're asking for our yearly
pension third way to go to go guys now it said like the city's contribution like you said up to 2300 is zero. What is it at 26? Zero. It's still zero. Oh yeah. So, so
the city would still not be responsible. It's still at over 110. So, you're still you may need that threshold, right? Yeah. Right now, right now at 2100, we're 128.4%. Where does the 110 come from?
There's a policy. Nothing is saved or No, it's policy. This requires a motion and acceptance for resolutions. It may be.
I forgot to ask. I don't know. Is that a question for Joel? Yeah. This requires a motion or resolution. I would do resolution. I feel like that's what happens. The last time I got one, which was a
while, we can approve a resolution here even though we don't have was the last one filed years ago. four, five years ago. I feel like Becky was here when we got it. She had just started because that was
fun. Now, these these funds are managed by Parano, right? So, it used to be we had ours through and then we switched all our funds into par manages it. So all the state fire rate that city gets and that was broken
down on here too. Um was it like $15,000 last year? Yeah. Plus there was a supplement like 17 right there. $17,423 the city got from the state that goes in there and then we make money on our
interest earnings. That's 2025. Last year it was good to know the city back. You said 5 years ago. What was it at before the board went up? I would say was the beach if I remember correctly
think we went 1500 then 1821 you know other departments are at um I know there um if you go up to like more lake I should move and
there's Some are getting really good insurance but for great history we're all we're all at 21 when I was at the last board meeting but it was on the
pair of I know a whole on the table. What is a resolution? Do you recommend delaying it until we have a resolution? Dr. Yeah. If you u is there a time in this?
Now we have to submit something back to her by way. It says the purpose evaluation find funding progress to determine or require contribution
year ending December 31st, 2026. Yeah, that's so they can figure out for the city's contribution, which the city hasn't paid for lots and lots of years. I think the last time the city paid was
when we switch era that put in a small portion few,000 bucks or something like that. But since the city has not into our fund and also as an option.
So mayor the so two things one the it does need to be by resolution others of statute and it's got to be done by January 1st in the documentation. Um, so I would recommend putting a resolution together that sets that level based on
recommendation be keeps us fun at what 111.2%. Right. Um, that's at the 2600 level. Uh, and so there's no additional costs in doing that. And uh I would recommend
that we could probably go off with a resolution from 5 years ago setting that current level and just update those finals. Yeah, 2021 22ish. So how many other departments in the
area are at 2600 or say 25 to 27? I was like where I feel at you mentioned more like go over to the No, it's just rumors. You know how you said top of the garage? Oh, yeah.
Yeah, that's I I don't want to say I told no furniture. Yeah, it's just it's just tough. There are there are many that quite a bit brother in Lakeville
is as huge but lots more but still zero cost to the city and we're maintaining that 110% threshold. a resolution drafted. Okay. Um any other
questions or anything for me? Um anything else from you? No. Um so yeah, we'll work on getting the resolution and then we can put that um in the next um council agenda. Um, and
then if any questions or things come up in the meantime, um, or you work, whatever. Yeah, I know will be at the next, but so just shoot them an email or whatever if you have questions. I'm sure you'd be happy to answer it. Um, yeah, we'll
table that and then we'll work on getting the resolution drafted out either or right. Thank you. Moving on. do math. You should have told me you don't want to cover it.
Oh, no. I did. I do have that. We didn't show you. I did not did not tell you definitely put some effort in your I did. All right, moving on to 11.12.
uh the um computer upgrade uh revised forward. We touched on this a little bit at the beginning of the meeting. Um anything else to add or um No, this is based off of our meeting with with him on site and then actually what we have and what we need and what we would like to have.
in. So, like I said, the three boxes, the three machines that um one cannot be upgraded to Windows 11 for sure. It's just one of the little cubes. Uh mine and Tammy, the
computers that we're using are 6 years old. He said by the time you upgrade them, then they're not worth upgrading anymore because I'm having problems with mine actually as you speak. I have to reboot it every once in a while. So, it's the You see in the call that the boxes are are not very expensive. The
laptop's 975. The pan is replaced with $975. And then I would get a laptop and a tower so I can take it on the road as well. And um and then what is it? $1,200
for installation. So the quot from 50 100 and we got it down to 37 says3. So it was just all good meeting a good conversation got the price done and like we talked before it was it is in budget.
So the budget we were able to get updated for what we did need and I was able to come down quite a bit and it's definitely important that you know city hall staff are working I mean updated
software. Um anybody have any questions or comments? Hearing none, I'll ask for a motion to purchase the computer upgrades in the amount of $3,773. I'll make a motion.
Motion from Ecman. Is there anybody that'd like to second that? We have a second Grahams. All those in favor? I. Any opposed? Hearing? None. Motion carried. And that's the last agenda item. So I will ask for a motion for adjournment.
So motion from councelor Jarville. Is there anybody there like to second that second council? All those in favor? Any opposed? Hearing none. Motion favor. Question. Yeah, you seven