entry experiential program which we did um back in September with some of the women who were getting ready to be released at Louisiana Women's Prison. It was eye opening and our colleagues have extended
that opportunity to others on the commission who might be interested in going through a similar simulation. Um it it it was eye opening so I extend that. Um, and if there is interest, um, I'll circle back around and we'll
>> maybe you could send a reminder to everyone and and what they should do if they're interested in that. >> Thank you both very very much for the presentation. Great work. >> Okay, moving on to academic affairs. Uh,
we have one academic degree program for full discussion listed in your agenda book on page 19. That's the program for the bachelor of science in public health in sexual and reproductive health to be offered by Indiana University Bloomington. Um look to chairman of the
um academic affairs committee Dan Bland for his additional comments and remarks and moving this forward. Thank you. Thank you. This came up as an item that was originally presented as potential for
expedited action. The request made the nature of the topic and the subject that be brought before the full commission put on the agenda so that we had so turn it over to Josh.
>> Thank you, Mr. Chairman. Mr. Chairman um uh as commission member Bland mentioned that this will be moved for full discussion. We have representatives from IU here uh to discuss it earlier. I'll bring them up in a second for our new members uh to the commission. discussion
is when we have uh some from uh the institution provide further information or it's a topic that the committee felt uh that commission members needed all commission members needed to be able to hear about rather than expedited our moves uh forward were just the committee.
So with that Mr. Weber to >> Thank you Josh. Thank you Mr. Chairman. Uh Josh, I do want to say thank you for your guidance in this process and the transition and we look forward to working with you and and uh excited to move this forward. Uh Indiana University
is happy to bring forward this bachelor of science in public development special and reproductive health. Uh it's an exciting program they've been working on for quite some time in development and we have two members from the faculty here to uh uh present and responding any
questions you may have. Washi is a professor and chair at the department of allied health science and school of public health at Bloomington and John Macy who is professor and assistant dean for academic programs. So we'll start
with Eric Good morning uh almost afternoon. Uh thank you for welcoming us uh here to um present on this proposed degree program. Um, we appreciate the time that you've all taken, Josh, and the commissioners
included, uh, to learn about this proposed program and to meet with us, uh, this evening. Uh, as, uh, Jeff mentioned, I'm a professor and I'm a chair, uh, of the department of applied health science. We've got a a large faculty and a large student body in our
department. Um, and we are in the Indiana University School of Public Health, Bloomington. Um, I'd like to share a little bit uh to begin about where our state ranks in terms of health. Commissioner Lowry, you said you like quantitative data, you like
metrics. According to the governor's public health commission, we've made some progress in health in public health. Um, but Indiana is at the bottom half of the nation in overall health rankings and
more specifically several sexual and reproductive health related rankings. Give you a few examples. Indiana is 35th in the nation in overall health according to the 2022 America's Health Rankings report.
worse than California, New York, Nebraska, Iowa, Wisconsin, and our neighbors Michigan and Illinois. Indiana is 43rd in the nation in neonataval mortality, 37th in child victimization,
36th in teen births, 36th in HPV vaccination, 36th in the percentage of infants exclusively breastfed for 6 months, 31st in chlamyia, 28th in the nation in low birth weight.
Most notably, and this is really key here, infant mortality is the number one indicator of health status in the world. The number one, if we look at the health of communities, the health of nations,
we look to infant mortality data and the hooers ranks 41st in the nation in infant mortality. These data are a powerful reminder of why we must act with urgency to improve the health of those who call Indiana
home. This proposed degree program, the first of its kind in the entire United States. Talk about climbing and not hiking. The first of its kind in the entire United States. Aims to be part of the solution
in Indiana. This degree program originates from an extensive review of academic programs and an expressed need from graduates of the Indiana University School of Public Health Bloomington and employers who hire graduates with a focus on sexual
and reproductive health. Indiana University has a rich history of supporting sexual and reproductive health research courses and service to the uh sexual and reproductive health profession which often motivates students to enroll in the university only to discover there's no specific
degree program dedicated to earning uh a degree in sexual and reproductive health. With the addition of faculty and resources dedicated to sexual and reproductive health across the IU School of Public Health Bloomington, we are now positioned to implement
an undergraduate degree focused on the public health aspects to support sexual health and reproductive health needs and communities. This degree program will prepare students for a career in public health, but also focus their experiences and
skills around sexual reproductive health. This is a competitive job market and keeping up with the current research and evidence-based practices is essential for our students to become gainfully employed as well as providing them with opportunities post-graduation
such as national certifications, graduate school and the workforce. the Bachelor of Science in Public Health or BPH in public health and my apologies we love acronyms uh and so we we I think
accidentally confuse everybody because of all these but the BPH or Bachelor of Science and Public Health in Sexual and Reproductive Health degree is a proposed 4-year undergraduate program offered through the Department of Applied Health Science.
The field of sexual and reproductive health promotes and strives to protect the health of all people. Professionals in this field address the behavioral and socioecological factors that impact sexual and reproductive health around the globe.
Graduates of this program work for local, state, and federal governmental agencies, domestic, and global nonprofit organizations, hospitals, outpatient clinics, birthing services, corporations, schools, universities, and
they may also be self-employed. This degree program aligns with the criteria for a BPH degree program established by the Council on Education for Public Health, the accrediting body for all public health academic programs
in the United States. Students who select this degree option study the core disciplines in public health and concentration specific disciplines in sexual and reproductive health. Core public health courses are focused on community health, epidemiology,
biostistics, environmental health, and public health administration. Concentration course works includes theoretical and applied sexual and reproductive health promotion and disease prevention, health disparities, as was previously mentioned, social
determinance of health, program planning, and intervention design. Students can expect to learn skills related to conducting research, interpreting surveillance data, and mastering positive and respectful oral and written communication that supports
sexual and reproductive health initiatives. At the conclusion of their coursework, students complete an internship where they gain practical experiences working alongside sexual and reproductive health professionals and advance their skills
and knowledge to support positive sexual reproductive health initiatives in a variety of settings also around qualitative data. Let me provide an illustration. Let me share the story of Emily. This is a
hypothetical student from a small town in southern Indiana who decided to pursue this bachelor of science and public health with a concentration in sexual and reproductive health. Emily grew up in a close-knit community
where many families face challenges accessing quality health care, especially maternal and infant care. She had always been passionate about helping others in her community and she knew that improving health care was the key to ensuring healthier futures for
families. When Emily learned about the Indiana University's uh new degree program, she saw an opportunity to turn her passion into a career that would directly address the urgent needs in Indiana, including the high rates of infant mortality.
Throughout her four years in the program, Emily gained a deep understanding of the public health issues that contribute to infant mortality. From social determinance of health to a lack of prenatal care to education gaps in maternal health, she
learned how to apply datadriven evidence-based strategies to prevent these problems from occurring in the first place. In her courses, she studied how socioeconomic factors impact access to care, how to design community outreach programs that educate new
parents, and how to collaborate with healthc care providers to improve maternal and infant health outcomes. For her internship, Emily worked with a local nonprofit that focused on supporting atrisisk mothers in rural
areas of Indiana. She spent time in clinics helping to organize prenatal education classes and providing resources to expectant mothers about nutrition, breastfeeding, and safe sleep practices. Emily also assisted in
gathering data on infant health to help track the effectiveness of these programs and identify areas for improvement. After graduation, Emily returned to her hometown and started working with an Indiana State Health Department initiative focused on reducing infant
mortality. Her education combined with her on the ground experience made her wellprepared to lead community-based efforts. She helped launch a program that trained local health care workers to identify early risk factors for infant mortality and provided mothers
with the tools and support they needed to have healthier pregnancies and healthier babies. Through Emily's work, her community began to see improvements. Fewer infants were born with low birth weights. More families had access to prenatal care,
and the infant mortality rate in her region started to decline. Emily's passion, education, and commitment made a tangible difference in the lives of Hooser families. Now, this story of a hypothetical student like Emily highlights how this
proposed degree program will not only equip graduates with the knowledge and skills they need, but also how it empowers them to make meaningful contributions to addressing Indiana's most pressing health challenges. This program is a strategic investment in our
state's future, aiming to foster healthier communities and stronger families by focusing on evidence-based practices and promoting positive health outcomes. We can ensure that Indiana's ne next
generation thrives. Thank you so much again for welcoming us here this morning. Um we're happy to entertain uh any questions the commission may have. Thank you very much for your presentation. Very Josh, I'll open it to you for staff
recommendations comments. All right. Thank you, Mr. Chairman. Staff recommends that approval of the bachelors in science and public health and sour health be offered by university. In addition to what we heard today, I would also like to
highlight that IU has identified specific careers that these individuals would uh pursue here in Indiana, specifically health education specialists, community health workers, and potentially postsecary educators. These positions have a projected growth
by 11% over the next decade. >> Very good. Uh questions, comments from Commissioner? Yeah, I could be reading this wrong, but I'm looking at the um document that was provided. Um I'm a little confused about um there's a section that talks about
national, state, and regional need, and it says it's an absolutely um program that will serve our both nationally and state. Then there's also a section that says we are not aware of any studies of national, state or region that addresses the labor market need program. And so my topic is as a student I understand the
need that when we reach a degree or credential or education is it going to lead me to a successful job that's going to contribute back to the economy contributing to have a prosperous life and so my concern is to say it bluntly um what differences would this make if a
student wanted to major in biology or be an OBGYn or be premed nursing? What is so important about the specialized topic? >> Absolutely. Thank you for the question. Um uh so to be clear I think uh Josh mentioning some of the career opportunities. One of the data sources
we see are jobs out there. There are jobs globally, not just all across the United States and in Indiana, but globally. We are we know that there are major um uh public health demands that this degree program will prepare
students for that are very specific to those demands. A biology degree is a wonderful degree. um is very popular at IU. I think it's also a very good degree if you want to go into several areas of employment, graduate school, etc. This degree program will train
entrylevel graduates to go into the field to go into the workforce to make an immediate impact. We hear about it, we see the jobs out there, we see the credentials that are available. We also hear about it from our graduates. So, our students
who have graduated, we have, I think, around 10 letters of support in the proposal. Four of those are from current and former students saying, I wish this degree program was in place. I sort of had to piece meal some things together and I sort of feel prepared, but this is
a direction I wanted to go in and it wasn't available. I really support this. And so, without the existence of studies that examine these sectors, um, we can't draw on those studies. we can use the available data we have again
workforce job announcements uh student feedback which is huge for us that was helpful >> yeah so just uh make sure I have a a clear understanding um all the all the coursework that leads
to um the vs uh major exists today. No new classes are have been designed. This is just kind of a different way to bundle the classes that
are available for this kind of focused Medicare. Is that am I accurate? >> That's correct. >> Yes. Thank you. >> And they're very, if I can add some more, they're very popular. Um we have every um every semester we have a course. It's F255. It's human sexuality.
There's a demand for that class. we can't offer enough sections for that. Uh in fact, over the course of a of an academic year, we had six or 700 students enrolled in that class. It's not quite as much as some of the other ones like an audi and physiology that have uh they can't even offer enough
sections across the university, but there's a a big demand for this kind. Um not sure uh who to ask Josh or um uh presenters here, but uh so I read Pepper's um email. I was not in the
meetings um where this was discussed. Uh so this sounds like very holistic program. Sounds like much needed. Um is there just a portion of it that is upset? Uh I shouldn't say it that way, sorry. that she's concerned with that
that is a small part of it. Uh what she said she had to bring up on moral grounds uh but she opposed it I believe was her words. So, and and that's what I have. I have no specifics for what was
stated in the um about it sounds like very holistic program. Sounds like much needed. Staff is recommending we do this. So, I I think it sounds good. I think it's also fair to say that all
of us as commissioners were encouraged uh to specifically read through and provide any specific questions, comments, concerns ahead of time as well as because obviously at the uh the academic affairs committee nothing came
up on that front after the fact. So uh which is fine and that's why we pulled out this process. it. So, I don't know if there were other questions that people submitted or or that those who aren't here submitted to you or to Josh uh that need to be addressed that haven't been addressed at this point. I
mean, I think that would be important here. >> Yes, Nancy Jordan has something. >> Oh, okay. >> We'll see if we're able to to hear her. Yeah, I think I'm, you know, in trying to understand Pepper's concerns, I did read this very carefully and I did
follow many of the links and I think that the the bulk of this program is very important. This topic is very important. But as we know, this topic can be polarizing in public discussion and there's a lot of emotion tied to it.
And I think my only concern is that as I followed a number of the links, there were some apparent biases. And I look at a college program, you know, we we look at higher education to teach us how to think and how to advocate. Um not
necessarily what to think and what to advocate for. So, I guess my only I don't know if it's a caution or or just a comment is that if this program is going to help folks advocate,
but they understand more sides of the argument, you know, get the bias out of it. You know, we have an opportunity to maybe bring some of that polarization closer together, reduce that. Um, but I guess my my only question or comment or
or piece of advice is that, you know, if this program truly does include significant bias, you know, I I think that you're going to see a lot of concern coming from citizens.
But I mean, on on the the bulk of it and the topic, I support the notion of this degree completely. just have a a guess a question a concern on how it's actually going to be implemented. So I guess also if if these courses already all exist,
what's different? Is it just that it's bundled and you can get a degree in it? >> That's correct. >> I'd like to just um thank you for that, Nancy. Um uh you know I read through it and spent some time talking with Josh and just
kind of learning um you know through the process and the questions that have been asked of just um would like to hear on the the bias you know kind of topic and and you know some of the discussion of
indoctrination type approach. Uh what what are your how do you respond to that? Yeah, I'm, you know, not new to the the controversies of this. Um, I'll share a personal anecdote. I mean, my my family is from southwestern Ohio, very
conservative and and um I'd like to say that I'm still waiting for my family to talk with me about sex and sexuality. This is a this is a sensitive, private, personal topic and so I understand the controversies around it. Um, I'm okay. I
mean, I'm fairing well. I have a seven-year-old. I know. I know how, you know, these the birds and the bees work and these sorts of things. Um, but my anecdote is not unique. My anecdote, especially around rural Indiana, I grew up in North Central Florida, which looks a lot like Indiana. Um, and so there are
young people who don't know things. Now, regarding bias, um you know, we're very aware of what um what the climate of higher education looks like. We know SEA 202 is a is a a bill that passed. We
know about intellectual diversity and we're fostering that already. We're fostering um critical thinking skills. Uh so those are the things that we our faculty address and we encourage our students. we teach our students how to get down to
that. So, it's it's not about bias and maybe it's recognizing our own biases as we come in. That's very important, especially as we go out and work in Indiana communities where we may not all think alike. We have to be mindful of how our own biases affect how we work
with other people. And in the end, we have the same goals. We want to improve health. We're really in business of our putting ourselves out of business. If we're successful in health, then we shouldn't have jobs, right? But the problem is is we we haven't been successful. And so we've got a long way
to go. Um and so as we talk about bias, I think we follow the science. We follow the competencies that are created by um uh major stakeholder groups in in public health. So you know, the Council on Education for Public Health has
competencies. That's what we follow. And I believe there are competencies that are specific listed in the proposal and I'm happy to draw attention to those about what those specific ones are. Um but you know in the end it's about health. Uh and so we're not um focused
on a particular um framework or an orientation. We're definitely not there. It's about critical thinking. It's about health. Uh and so that's how we approach it. Hope that was helpful. It did. Thank you. Yeah, very helpful. We really don't want
to cut short any concerns or comments that haven't been addressed. So, I'll talk. Oh, I'm sorry. Yeah. Well, just just a I will have to recuse myself from
any vote because I actually serve on the advisory committee of the public school vote that I just want to know whatever discussion and kind of taking us out of this small orbit and going to the
general public. What will be the response from people here business as usual or so back to the consciousness cognance
and just my thought because I I've never 20 years of serving on the commission Never had a situation where I had difficulty sleeping around. [Music] So what's happening
two terms I'll finish number one is introjection and introjection as I understand it is this whole principle of your professional sphericals. introjection says when I set a fire
on New Year's or my gun and New Year's in Detroit, then I am anticipating others following suit because this is just what we do. It's an invitation to come along and do
what we're doing before culture and a vortex that is doing it because this is what I've seen. This is what we do. And so introjection says if I see it on social media then see a thousand people doing it and then a
million people as social creatures often times we can't help ourselves. And so from a standpoint of introjection what does this mean? What might it imply in terms of what's coming
for society that just can't help itself look good? The second law is just antenny and antenny says the reason we have so much conflict because at his root right and wrong will never agree or will never have a coordination.
[Music] will never agree. And so you should expect, whatever your position, you should expect the war because at some point when you get down to a crossroad, you can't go left and right.
You have to choose. But you can't have both. But the says there are rules of law and certain points there are rules that will never agree. And life and death are two never. So there will be there will be
next agreement. Thanks for my knowledge. Very good. Thank >> I guess I just wanted to go into one of the courses that was um recommended under this degree. What's law got to do with it? Rights restrictions, injustice, and sexual and reproductive health. You
mentioned about how this might interfere or not interfere with Senate Bill 202. how are we truly going to make sure that um teachers aren't kind of implementing their own beliefs? Um especially since it talks a lot about what the term reproductive justice is and what that might mean. So you talk about in mortality that is something I feel a lot
of people agree on, but there all are also topics of sexuality and gender issues and just how we're going to get behind that and how we're going to keep that as non-biased and educational as possible. >> That's a great question. Thanks for asking it. Um you know the bottom line when we look at the courses that we
offer the folks who teach them are experts in the discipline. That course specifically we have two trained lawyers on our faculty. Guess who developed that course? One of those two trained uh
legal experts. So there is absolute there are facts there are there's legislation. There is law. There's public policy and this keep in mind this is at local, state, national levels at in federal agencies that uh Congress
legislates things and agencies have to interpret that and that becomes public policy. This uh this lawyer that I'm referring to knows this field. So um she is an expert in this area. That's why she's in the classroom. We're not going
to have I'm not going to teach it, right? um we're not going to have people who are not trained and um not experts in the area. But that's the beauty of this degree program is we've got experts at IU across IU in the School of Public
Health Bloomington. We've got a very um solid critical mass of of faculty who do this work, who are trained, who do the scholarship around it. Um and again, I'm a department chair. I'm the one who has to implement SEA 202 and monitor it. So
the complaints that come in, they come to me and so eventually go to the the university first. But um you know, I don't want those things. This is a law that we need to make sure that we're abiding by. And so we first start with the courses are there because of
competencies that prof the profession and the accrediting bodies have said this is what public health is and what public health does. We have experts who are trained in those competencies, who do the research, who develop the courses. Those are the
people we put in the classroom and they know they're not going to go off on some tangent because they do know you topic that you um called into question. That's a topic that might draw polarization and might get one of our faculty members in trouble because they because they go
down that path, but they stick to the science. They stick to the evidence. They stick to critical thinking and they foster that environment where there can be those open discussions about that other comments question not to not to be silent I guess my where
I come from the way it's worked is I think Kent your question is really an important one which we knew by reading through the programs for the most part of it these are courses that are existing today. These are we're not introducing new coursework. To me, it gives some uh important credibility to
the fact that you're building a holistic degree around the topic so that you aren't necessarily someone that's getting a full picture, if you will, who wants to go into a field that deals with these many complex issues around not just sexuality, but but you know,
reproductive health. I come from a medical background, a company that has a history of of producing in vitro diagnostics and in vitro uh fertilization products to help parents have children. In turn, we also have
technologies that help with mothers who are having crisis during pregnancy as well as a lot of pediatrics. I see the work I see the issues from a community health standpoint. uh the programs like nurse family partnership programs that have become so important and so uh
impactful in helping uh lowincome families in you know single moms uh folks first time um first- time parents understand the the aspects of not just giving birth but also understanding how
to prevent unintended pregnancies going forward and and it's not yeah it's a it's a holistic issue I think So to me, one way I would look at the way I look at it personally is I think you know this is this is a logical um a logical
program in all likelihood uh that is needed in in the broader aspects of investment in public health especially as we as a state have finally put some more money into focusing on the public health aspects of our of our community. So for what it's worth um
Mr. Mr. I move for approval. >> Very good. Thank you, Mike. Thank you, Jud. Any further comments, concerns, questions? Okay. Hearing none. All in favor say I. >> I. >> I. Any opposed? And an abstension. Believe. Yes. Thank
you. >> Okay. Very good. Thank you. I look forward to coming back in 10 years. I don't know how many years. We know how data work. It takes a while to make it infinite, but I look forward to coming back here at some point and reporting
back on this degree program. We're all in this together. This is the idea. We want to help who's your families. We want this place to be a healthy place. So, I hope we can come back and report on those uh impacts. Thanks for your time. Very good. Thank you. >> Thank you.
>> All right. Uh we now have um we now we're a little behind. Everybody okay on lunch or should we >> Oh yeah, we just have it. Okay, so right before lunch we will go through. We have four items for four academic programs for expedited action listed in your
agenda book beginning on page 21. Uh I'll look to Dennis to uh tee these up and then we'll approve them one after the other if that's okay Dennis. No, they were absolutely just one at a time for expedited action.
Number one, the master of science and education of evidence-based practices and educational psychology at Indiana University. Move approved. A motion for approval. >> Second. Second. Thank you. Any comments, questions?
Hearing none. All in favor say I. >> I. I >> oppose same. >> Next program is the master of public policy Indiana University. >> Very good. >> Second. >> Thank you again. Any other any comments
questions? >> All in favor say I. >> I post. >> Okay. Third. >> Master of design leadership Indiana University Bloomington. Approve approval.
You're on a roll. >> I'm on a roll. >> Comments, questions, >> questions. >> Oh, yeah. >> Um, it says that there's going to be back filling seven exhibiting courses. Does that mean that the courses are haven't been taught and that they need
to have seven? What does that? Yeah, the program will be using uh uh uh existing faculty courses that are taught um right now but they will be by that point it's just expand that one. I can give you more information on that one,
but it is it is they are all current pro programs being taught or courses being taught >> and they said so I guess I don't know what filling >> yeah I apologize that word should not be used in there it'll be seven courses that will be taught by
>> yeah that answer your question we'll follow up Yeah. >> Yeah. Cuz I don't understand why it's a thing. No new courses. >> Yeah. May may scrap the family to teach. Okay. All in favor say I. >> I.
>> I. >> And last one. >> Yes. The PhD in information science Indiana University Indianapolis. Move. Approval. >> Second. Thank you. Any comments or questions on this? All right. Hearing none. All in favor
say I please. >> I >> I post same sign. >> Okay, we have and I believe before we break for lunch, um I believe Alicia would like you to come up and make a few comments here for us.
>> Yes, thank you. I just wanted to say before we go to lunch, everyone is invited to have lunch in the room that is joining to this one. Um it's open to everyone. We will have a speaker. So, we want to let you take a few minutes to get your food, get settled, please sit
near the front uh close to the speaker in the screen so you can engage with him. He will do a short presentation with Q&A after. And then I wanted to say to everyone, I believe commission members and staff have parking covered by Lucas. I sent out an email if there's
anyone in the audience who need a QR code, please come find me. Um you if you parked in the Grant Street garage, you will have taken a ticket. When you leave the garage, you need to scan that ticket QR code and then the QR code that we
have given you. So any issues, please come find me. It was a little but happy to help with that. >> Sorry, I already asked Lucas, but just making sure. That is at the machine, right? >> That is at the machine. Yes. Yeah. >> Thank you. Well, thanks for all you've
done for us. One other question that is at the game machine. >> Correct. When you >> while I'm in my car, >> all right, we're uh we're going to take our lunch break now and I think we're a
little behind schedule, but we're due to end relatively early today. So, um, we were sitting to be back by 1, but I think we should probably push that back to 1:30. >> All right. See you back in there. Thank
you. Wind I think we we lost the mic, but we definitely still have a forum and I think probably still on. So, um we have one other item on the agenda. Any constru here and that is um discussion
around the banner band program itself. Uh Josh uh Garrison is going to lead us through that. Looks like Michelle's gonna be a part of that. So >> here I will turn it over to you. >> All right. Thank you, Mr. Chairman.
I'm here today to talk about the Frank Oannon Grant. For those of you uh that have been around a while, you've heard of the Frank Oannon Grant. For those of you who are new, um I'm going to go ahead and provide an overview of what it is and some history behind it. Uh if you did not know, Indiana is a top 10 state
in the nation for state financial aid led by our 21st century scholarship program. And then next to that is our friend Oan grant. If you are familiar with the PEL grant, you can do this similar to the Indiana version of the PEL grant um where it changes by your
credit hour intensity as well as your need. So I'm going to do a quick overview and then I'll have I've got uh Michelle Ashra here to talk about the faster because these two things are very interrelated. So to begin the Franco band grant is available to all students who attend any
public uh proprietary I'm sorry the the Franco grant is made up of two awards or if I start on the right slide I can go back is our primary need based financial aid program. It is appropriated roughly $168 million for each year in buying income.
So we have $168 million appropriated. It's made up of two different programs. The higher education award and the freedom of choice award. The higher education award goes to Indiana's public and proprietary institutions. They go that goes to our core and two-year
publics and all of our proprietary. To define proprietary, that's our for-profit institutions, not our nonprofit institutions. The freedom of choice grant is available to Indiana's private nonprofit institutions. Those are our independent colleges. So if you're aware of the independent colleges
of Indiana, it is those institutions who receive that grant. First state law, the freedom of choice grant has to be twice the amount of the higher education award. That is uh explicit in code. So when you see the amounts on the on the handout that you have in front of you, you'll notice the private institution
amount is double that of what the public institution is. It does not say the same thing for our proprietary or IvyTech uh awards. It does say in state law though that IvyTech and our for profit proprietary institutions have to have the same amount. So that is another
requirement of the program. The Franco Grant has uh incentives for students to complete on time on time. We call them credit commission benchmarks for students award. If you have your your schedule of awards in front of you,
it's the on-time amount. So once your first year receiving the grant, you'll receive the on-time amount. For the full on-time amount, you must earn 30 credit hours in that year. Um if you do not earn 30 credit hours, you have to earn 24 credit hours to receive a reduced
award full-time amount. And you'll see that second amount there. I do want to highlight though that we recognize that some students uh plan to take less than 30 credits per year because they've used dual credit API like to move forward. We do uh account
that into their credit completion requirements and we get files from our institutions and we create what's called the credit bank. So a student could take 27 credits in a year and they use AP and build credit earned prior to that year to meet credit completion requirements. Wanted to share that with you all. We
want to make we want students to meet the requirement. We want students to review their awards. If a student does not earn 24K credit hours, they are no longer eligible for the Franco Dream. As we discussed a few years ago, due to
reduced enrollments in a cut that took place in 2009, um the Fredo Bannon grant was built a significant fund balance. You'll see that here in a little bit. It is around $125 million between the two funds and the federal balance. In 2022, the commission approved increasing the
Frank grant by 35% for the academic year 23 24. So fiscal 24 last year essentially uh that was to adjust for inflation for cuts and taken all the way back in 200 uh uh 2009. That leaves the
current maximum award at our private institutions at around $12,000 and 62 $6,000 at our public institutions. Those are our current amounts. The commission is required to approve the Frank grant on an annual basis and once it's approved it must be reviewed
by the state budget committee. Um and students receive an award based on their need. Uh the reason we're here before you today to talk about a grant is the next state budget committee is in December. We would like to get on that that uh schedule. If we're not able to get on that schedule, the next one is not until after session. So sometime in
April on that. So with that uh the Franco band grant is dependent any questions so far? The fra grant is dependent on the if you you all are involved in higher education. So you know that there are so many applications that students have to
do. the application for uh enrollment, the application for your major, the application for the FA application. To make it easier for students, we elected not to build a separate Frankenberg banner application. That way, students uh the roughly 30,000 a year to receive it do not have to come to us and fill
out another form to gain access. We use the information from the FAFSA. And Indiana code actually says we're required to use a need analysis from the FAFSA to determine amounts. And you heard a lot about uh um the way the FA rolled out last year.
It I included this slide. I debated whether or not um on whether you or not. I included this slide. I debated whether or not because that's how we felt all last year. Um we as financial aid professionals, those of us
trying to help students, kept setting benchmarks and markers to do that. And the United States Department of Education kept changing. It made it impossible for students, for families, and for institutions to figure out a way forward. And I want to take a moment to
commend our financial aid professionals across the state because the work that they did during that time uh was herculean. They had to go off of no information. They had to help families figure out a way forward and we ended up in a fairly good place on that.
So to go back computer nominated passed in the pre-application of the federal student and it had significant changes in the form and I'm going to hand it over to Michelle here in a second to describe the timeline. The biggest change was the expected family contribution which is the need analysis was changed to uh the student aid index
that moved the student the way that that changed was an analysis of what need was and it also moved the bottom of the need from zero to500. So old ESC the lowest you could have was zero now it's 1500. Sounds kind of odd.
Why would you go down to 1500? The purported reason uh that it was stretched out like that was to allow for individuals or for institutions and for states to see who of of need students were the most needy. We'll discuss today
that that's not what actually happened when they implemented uh uh the the SAI change. More students qualified for federal, state, institutional aid. And as I said, the implementation was a disaster. And I'm going to hand over to Michelle because it was her and her team
who had to deal with uh the impact of the the fast changes to go over the timeline on what happened with that. So >> thanks Josh. I think someone referenced earlier postmortem on how fast went with that. Uh to be clear we're going to go
through several slides of the timeline of what happened last year. This is a snapshot of a document that's been put out by a national organization that is over 80 pages long. So when you see what I'm about to present, it's just the tip of the iceberg of the challenges that we experienced last year. For the last
several years, the FAFSA has opened on October 1st and we were informed in March of 2023 that that would not happen. Um we were told that it would not be available until December. And they didn't let us know until the middle of November when in December it would open. And I don't think that I would be
shocked that they said December 31st at that point in time. When it did open on December 31st, it opened for a few hours at a time. and not access. Um, we also found out before it opened on December 31st, at the beginning of December, that with
this new formula that Josh mentioned, that they had failed to update some income protection guidelines. And that was important because that update was actually going to meet part of the purpose of the new formula, which was making more students eligible for financial aid. So, without that update,
that was not going to be possible. And that meant that even when it opened in the end of December, every record that we were going to receive was going to be run until they updated that application. In January, they announced that the form was fully available. So that meant it
was live on the site 24/7, but that did not mean that it was working. In fact, there was whole population of students who couldn't access it and what's termed a contributor, which is most often a family member or uh either a parent or spouse. Many of them cannot access it as well. They let us know near the end of
January that they were actually going to fix those income protection guidelines. And so we knew that as we started to receive files, there wasn't really going to be anything that we could do with them until they reprocess those files as students started to submit their applications. Because of that, um, typically what
would happen, you would see across our institutions throughout the state that in February they would start releasing financial aid applications. So here we are in the FAFSA barely open. We have not received any files and we know that when we start to receive them, we are going to be wrong. So Josh and I consulted with the organization that
represents our state financial aid um offices across the state. They have a government relations team and we all collectively decided the best way to move forward was to keep the awards flat for this year knowing that we were going to have to make significant changes in the upcoming year. So Josh aptly
described this last uh week as past us made it a future us problem and here is future us telling you what this is and how we are going to address that in the end of February they did make a technical update to the formula um in
addition to fixing the the issue with the income protection that we announced earlier and they announced that they would deliver that didn't happen the individual file that we receive for a student that allows us to actually process their financial aid Then in February, Congress passed something that undid what they just did.
So, we had to redo the formula again. Um, and in the beginning of March, they announced that they would finally start receiving or sending us files. And then you can see in the middle of March, they told us that they would start receiving them. We're already at five times now that they told us that they would start sending us files and we still don't have
them yet. Um, at that point, we came to you, those of you who were here, and we asked you to approve what is the current schedule for the 2425 year. we ask you to hold it flat um and let you know that we would come to you in the following year with proposed changes for what would be the
25 26th year and the way forward. Around that time uh they announced again that the formula was not correctly calculating an asset. So they were just adding on to ways that the formula is not correctly working. And then shortly after that they announced another update in which tax information was not um
being used correctly for about 20% of all those who had filed so far. So we were going to have to recalculate again. Um, in April we found out that they were actually going to start reprocessing those, but we hadn't started receiving all the files yet. Um, then in the beginning of April, they
then announced that they were going to do basically mass reprocessing for the four or five issues that they had let us know was going to be um having to address that basically they were not calculating correctly. And then in midappril we found out that basically nationally nearly all uh institutions um
have not even started to release financial aid award packages. So, we're thinking about a May 1st typical national deadline of people coming up saying, "I want to go to your school." And they don't even know what financial aid they're going to be able to get yet, not only in our state, but across the country. Um, at that point in time, we went to the state budget committee and
we asked them to do the same thing that we asked you to do, which was hold the schedule flat um and let them know that we would come back to them as we will this December with an update to the schedule for for years moving forward. At the end of April, it was signaled that the federal student aid was confident that they would open this
year's fast by October 1st. That did not happen. We did open beta testing though, so we are working on it. Um, and it is expected to be open for all users on December 1st. Um, at the time that they made that announcement, there were still issues with the current FASA. Currently today, we sit at 21 standing issues on
the current FA that's being used for this school year that have not been resolved yet. And that's just the one that they've put on a public website. Um they didn't start processing paper applications. So David mentioned paper application issues earlier. They didn't start processing those until October. Um
we're still working through that. Um so we're working through beta testing. We are there are four rounds of beta testing. Indiana is participating on rounds two through four. Um from every update we've heard it seems to be going well. So we're hopeful for the December 1st launch. Um, but much of what I referenced as the challenges with the
calculations, um, as well as with access to the form, that's up for what Josh is about to share with you for why we need to adjust. >> So, I'll go ahead and cover the award here and one second. All right. Um, but I want to preface
with this with we did talk about all the problems that the federal government had with the FAFSA, but as the commissioner told me when we were discussing this, it may not be our fault, but it is our responsibility. We do have a responsibility to figure out a way forward with this, and that's what we are doing. Um, and you saw this last
year, uh, many states saw a 10% decline in fast filing, but due to the work of Michelle and her team and our partners across the state, we were number one in the nation in year-over-year uh, uh, declines. uh we held a flat for our high school seniors, which is why I think that we are seeing those enrollment
declines in students able to enroll. We were the only state in the nation to see low-inccome high schools uh increase their FA filing in Indiana with only one of four states uh in the nation with higher minority uh or higher FA filing in high minority schools. And as
mentioned, we recognized last year that we would need to update uh the schedule of awards. If we would have had this data last year, we would have done it then. Um, but we are doing it now because we did not. Just some more context, as of April
15th, 2024, overall passes, that includes even uh college age students were down about 3%. Uh, in the state, high school was, as I mentioned, flat. But even though overall classes were down, the highest need students were up by 8.6% 6% and 14.1% for high school
seniors. What I mentioned earlier was that when they switched from ESC to the uh student aid index, uh they moved most students into the500 which is the highest need. We typically see around 40% of our students in the highest need
bucket. For this year, we saw 60% of our students in that highest need bucket. Um on the Franco Bank grants we had a projected that we were spending around 200. Yes sir. >> Sorry sir but going back to an earlier
presentation how do we reconcile the increase in college enrollment and grad after several years of decline. But how do you reconcile the increase in participation but decline in FASA?
So, we are actually up year-over-year, but as of April 15th, we were down um at that point. And >> April 15th, it's our state's priority deadline for fifth, which is why we pulled data on that date. >> Yeah. Right. >> No. So, what we saw, especially at the college level, students were just being
fixed, right? >> And high school seniors were being pushed uh to do so. >> So, with our Yes. I'm so sorry I interrupt you. I think what you just said is for knowing not passing over
something that we decided to do was I don't know how else to put it to go low tech on some of this um in reaching out to high school seniors, their parents and what were current college students in every manner we could. So, not just
electronically with email and so forth, but also the snail mail, snail mail. Um, because we had record of these individuals and because of all of the crazy challenges that Michelle especially just went through, we decided to do as much as we could to be hightouch and then of course we did the
work with, you know, college matters and u with the the preparation sponsored, but I I don't want to gloss over that point. uh and the way those performances occurred because those were those were some things that were done in the state
of Indiana that just weren't done in other states and I think they are contributo to I had states call it success but let's just say higher performance than other states >> in those areas.
So with that with our projections due to the uh and and we saw this across the country where no one because we did not have the data could project Minnesota just announced last month they were cutting their current awards. So the awards they already distributed by $40 million for their students. We've seen this happen across the country for that.
Thankfully we are in a better position than most states due to uh the fund balance that we have acquired over uh the last few years. So I'm going to show you our spin and our appropriation and then you should have that. Also, for those of you with the printed out version, I apologize. I left our
comments on there, but you can see how we bet our numbers on with that. Um, so with this, you can see each year that our appropriation has remained and we're projecting uh we're hoping it will remain flat after this budget session at
$160 million through both those that is the blue. The green is our expenditures for the year. And then the line is our rollover balance. So what we carry forward forward year after year 23, so FY23 is the year that we came to
you all to ask for an increase in uh the OAM grant for our students. And we wanted to spend right around $175 million. And we spent uh that year 173 uh million, pretty close to what our projections were um at that time.
Our goal is to still spend around $175 million. Mind you, that is $44 million over what we spent in fiscal year uh 23. That will ensure that we spend the appropriation and giving students the most funding that we can as well as
responsibly spending down any rollover that we put forward. What you can see is the operation that is uh this current year because of the fact that we did not have the data and we held everything flat this year. Uh we will spend uh up to $225 million. We can't absorb that
because of the rollover amount of fun. Um, we could have elected to cut the awards last year. However, uh, it would have been like cutting your hair in the dark. That's not a great analogy for me, but it would have been a great at that point in time. Um, we would not
have known what we were doing and we would not have known what it would look like afterwards. Um I've seen it by the way um on that. So so with that our recommendation but I want to talk about first how we control expenditures
for Yes. I'm sorry that's go back. >> Yes sir. Um so commission members I think I had been in this role about for four months or so maybe five and our team and I and
our partners had talked about um a variety of things some of which we already talked about today. Why on earth do we have to chase kids down to sign up for 21st century? Um why do only 84 high schools have the Indiana College Board? And one of the things was absolutely
stunning to me was why cuts um adjustments for inflation had not occurred in that at that point in 13 years and the goal of that you may or may not recall it is vivid with me and I repeat
it about every other day when I'm out publicly talking was to uh bolster the Franco band award by about 35%. Um, I point that out because it's to me it's so important to to know what we
were talking about at the time that the awards have been consistently in the low $130 billion range. Right? Simple math. You don't need the calculator, but what you're going to end up acrewing is a a bump of 40 425 million. So that is the
range that was the predicate to what we were planning to see for. By the way, that's a that's a substantial investment for your $45 million of additional um each year. And I I think you all know that when we came to you, Governor, the
punishing committee, the state committee and others that we knew we were asking for something substantial and had robust discussions around that. And I regard a lot of things in life. This will absolutely never be one thing I would retract. uh it was the right thing
to do and we're carrying balance and this is a proven way to uh use it more effectively. I share that with you because those were considerations we took into play to knowing though as Michelle and Josh have illustrated that FY25, you know, going back to the fiasco that
started now whatever 15 months ago that we're going to have an admiration here. And I just point that out to you because again historically that 40 45 million additional is what we were counting on all along. And I'm sure Michelle Josh
will correct me by mischaracterizing any of that. So want to talk about race forward. I want to be clear moving forward with $225 million is not a feasible way to do it. So we do have to adjust things going forward. With that said, we do have
three ways of controlling uh region grant expenditures. One of them we actually have to do first by state law. Um the first one is uh uh reducing the incentives. uh incentives uh can be created by the commission. They can be created by state law and they can be based on on various things. Uh one we
are removing is the academic honors incentive uh uh for a student who gets an academic honors diploma. As much as I do like that incentive, I can guarantee that there's no high school student who has studied harder to get the Frank Wang grant academic honors incentive. We will roll that into the base award of the of
the amount as well as a couple other uh minors incentives along the way. The second uh area that we have to uh reduce and control spend is through the award amount both by either reducing the overall award amounts or uh changing the
buckets. So if you have the the proposal in front of you uh changing where students fall within uh that. So taking it from 1500 to zero or moving it up and down the line. The final thing we have is controlling the FA filing deadline of
April 15th. That has been typically the way that we've increased is by adding students after the April 15th deadline. Historically, we extended the deadline. This year, we have not extended. The deadline's gone anywhere from May 15th all the way to August 30th one year. um
due to that uh due to fasting rates or historical fasting rates and utilization when we were working on moving forward with these uh proposal we'll discuss in one second we had some guiding principles on what we wanted to do one
was continue to prioritize our investment low income students and ensure a similar number of Franco band grant recipients receive the award uh each year uh that's right around as I said 30,000 students uh we have to keep the spend in line with the appropriation as well. We also
wanted an amazing increase and what the proposal uh that we have in front of you will still be a uh increase of around 15 to 17% from the 22 23 year and we want to move towards a stable award to minimize fluctuations on this. The way
that we do it is that we want FY24 FY26 to look like FY24 and we want FY27 to continue. We want a stable state. Uh with that uh uh we knew that there would likely be these fluctuations. So when we
communicated with our students in our word letters, uh we know that people don't read the the letters that you get. That's that just happens. Um so we ensured not only our we asked our institutions uh information about the fact the award would change next year. of the seven sentences on our award
letter. We got it down to seven sentences on our award letter for the Franco band grant. Three of them discuss how the award will change for next year. So we inform students at the outset and we do every year. Students aid that goes up and down um constantly. It's it's
just a part of uh the fact it's based on taxes, it's based on enrollment intensity and various other. I am a financial aid professional. That is what brought me to higher education and I do not like having to see any cuts in financial aid but it is our responsibility to rights size the
program. So if you look at the the schedule of awards that I put in front of you um for 2526 it represents as I said a 15 to 17% increase on the max award from 22 to 23 but it does represent a 14.5% decline from last
year's max alumni awards. This schedule will ensure that uh students a similar number of students >> that looks like this. >> But what were you saying that what can you just repeat the sentence you said two
sentences around? >> It's the maximum award the 1500 that large award represents a uh 14.5% decline uh year-over-year. It is still a significant increase from the 22 23 academic award year. This will allow us to get to a steady state going forward
and and not have the fluctuations each year. Um if for some reason uh uh well not for some reason if if we find a pot of money we will increase it again but at that point in time but this makes sure that we stay within appropriation
while awarding the most students that we possibly can. Uh we will look forward to as we see the analysis of what happened with the FAFSA with the SAI seeing how we can move forward to make sure the Frank Bannon grant is sustainable as well as it best serves students um
moving forward. So with that um I'm happy to answer any questions I have Michelle as well um you want to >> yeah I think the only other um comment that I would add just for context is Josh mentioned earlier that this basically functions like the state version of the PEL grant. I think it's
important to note that as we have seen an increase in students eligible for need-based aid in our state, particularly maximum need-based aid, we're also seeing the same thing at the federal level. So, one of the several goals that there was for adjusting the FAFSA um not only simplifying the
process for filing, but also the formula was to make more students eligible for financial aid. So, the students who are qualifying for a frank or banner grant are also qualifying for more federal aid and more of them are qualifying for the max federal award as well. That's actually a a very important point to
make yourself. I do want to point out for the public institutions, any student who is uh one to 500 when you combine PEL and Franco Vanny grant will have their full tuition covered at any public institution on that. For anyone on the
Ivy Tech schedule um up to I believe the same number will have their full tuition covered um on that. So, we never like reducing awards, but students will still be able to create access. Um, it is still one of the most generous programs in the
nation. Um, moving forward. With that, we're happy to answer any questions. A question starts with you, Chris. Um you said that at the time of the initial bump back in the 2003 rate so they hadn't
been adjusted in 2009 totally stable. >> So so I know all the cuts had not been restored from 2009 and then the other adjustments that might have taken place in that time period >> a couple hundred dollars up in 2020.
Yeah. So, so, so basically no play in that, you know, since the 09 cut. So, I think that 13 years of the time that we brought it forward. >> Yeah. In 09 was roughly a 31% 6 weeks before classes started because of the recession. >> And I know this morning I asked you
about the why it was set up the loud voice, the amount for kids going to private institutions instead of public. Um, and I apologize. I'm new to all of this.
I'm trying to wrap my brain around it, but and I know that's by statute and so we can't independently change that. But one, I think it's something that we might
want to consider. But I'm intrigued by looking at the breakdown on this. And I asked my question so for a full-time IvyTech proprietary institution or back down to what the amount was 2900 is what it was three years ago.
>> Uh on that one >> I think looking at the map the 14% is true but >> we're hitting harder. There's some groups that are same thing. A full-time student at a public institution. Three years ago was 3,700. Now we're 38.50.
>> Yeah. So with with those we are required to provide uh have a lower amount on that. Uh but yes, we uh to make the the funding work we prioritize the the on time versus the full time. For those
I will say disproportionate number are in not just the I500 but the 1500 on time as well. >> Sorry. >> So when I mentioned that 60% are in the the 1500 bucket a disproportionate
percent of those are also in the on time not fulltime uh awards. And I can give you a breakdown by bucket as well to show you uh the impact on those again with fulltime as well if you are at 2900 plus the $7,300 in Pel.
>> That's good. >> Yeah. >> Kind of terrified because I was crunching numbers >> down the graph people that were getting I mean some of these are a negative change of 86%. >> Yeah. But we know you get to the the the
highest level. Um what had happened with the SAI is it threw um so many people downward that uh we needed to recalibrate the whole whole item at that point and prioritize the top and um I don't want to minimize any impact those
students. It is very few once you get up to the 4,000 to do those and we will have appeal processes for students who may be negatively impacted um on continuing education at that point. Um and I said
it can't change the last two years and I understand why why was done is done. Uh but I do worry about what this going to do. Sorry
about completion rates going to rates and I hope open mind study. I remember the discussion part about certainty of the cost of education that
I'm just curious to what effect it might end up having. >> I'm sorry. >> That's >> Yeah, we will be monitoring the impact of all of this moving forward and how we can enter into a steady state. Again, um for the
students who were continuing, many of them have never received before this is a one time issue that for others who are new we'll work with it as best we can. >> Oh, do you have any >> new to this a dumb question? >> No.
>> What kind of certainty is it? You made me feel better hearing that because the federal grant money >> that these kids would be okay. How are we confident that they federal rates also
wouldn't be potentially downsized. >> Uh I can't speak to whether whether they will do that. It has not happened historically. Um I can't speak to whether the the beds will change in the
future, but they have not in my time in financial aid in 14 13 years. So >> but historically we haven't changed >> recession. Yes. >> Down. >> Um so when you say that they'll still be buying them
covered assuming that their rates don't change. >> Yeah. >> So for next year uh it will continue at the 7,300 per pound >> at the maximum amount. >> Okay, that's good. >> Yeah. >> Yeah.
Question. >> May I ask? >> You mentioned earlier there three ways of controlling the expenditures. Mentioned before there are three ways expenditures. Yeah. So obviously we're adjusting awards
in the adjustment of the awards in the budget. So we're trying to keep it same as 23. >> Are we adjusting the number of awards? >> So with that we do anticipate awarding the same number of students but just a
different look because we will have an increase in FASA this year. I can guarantee we will have an increase in FA by the um by the April 15th deadline. So we will be awarding the same number of students that will just be in different buckets at that point. We our goal is to award and it's never the exact same
students each year comes around but it will be uh the same number if not more next year then an increase into that. >> Okay my help with questions real quick. Um to uh Kathy's point, if you look at the
schedule from last year, basically if you want to understand the effect of the change from EFC to FAI, you imagine these buckets in previous years were EFC. And so whoever fell on this schedule is who qualified for need-based aid. When you change that for FAI,
basically what it did was move students down this scale. So FAI is a different calculation where more students qualify for for an ease. So our students who would have normally been at a zero ESC are now500 and everyone on every bucket above them
scoops down. What that means is at the top of this schedule students who never qualified for need-based aid are now on the list. So when we think about and I don't want to minimize this because there's certainly challenges for affordability and accessibility for middle income families too and I recognize that. But when we were talking
about making an adjustment, if and when Josh mentioned, there's a lot of students who got a onetime award. Had they had the data that we needed at the time to do the schedule last year, those students would have not made it onto the schedule. And unfortunately, because we didn't have the data at the time we had, there are students who would have never
historically qualified for DBA who did this one time. But when Josh said that we are trying to serve the same number of students and to Cathy's point, all of those students that we've typically served are way down on the end of the schedule count. Um, so we are creating a situation where we're still serving the same number of students. We're still
serving the neediest students out of our state with the maximum awards that we could possibly give them. And then to Josh's other point, we have factored into this chart and assumed 6% increase in fast filing. Um, just to give you a sense of scale, we were launching mandatory fast at the time that this was
rolling out. Had that not happened, all of the six states who did that before were us in the first year of universal fast, they saw somewhere between a 20 and 25% increase. So we worked with our business team to try to put what we believe is a reasonable projection in here because
there have been such challenges. Um but in the event that we are as successful, we were half successful of our other states. Um we do expect that we will have more macro drivers which will increase the number of students who are down at the lower in this bucket which is why we're trying to make the best
possible projection we can so that within appropriation we have just a question on the uh the 2x for the um private uh institution. Yes. What's the origin of that? What's the what's the I guess
behind that. So that's been around since before I even moved to India. So from what I understand, well not what I understand, it is a separate appropriation. So they do have a separate $67 million appropriation. The other 101 some change goes to the public at that point. And what it is is for some students the smaller private campus
is what best suits them. Choice grant creates access for those institutions um or students who need uh a smaller field. Did you say Nancy has a question? >> Nancy, >> hey there. Can you hear me?
>> Yeah. >> Yes. >> Y Well, first of all, I just want to thank you all because I understand how much work has gone into this and I know that you don't take this lightly. Um it feels like we're put in a position to do the
least harm. You know, we we're trying to do the greatest good, but this is do the least harm. But I am concerned and you know, Commissioner Lowry, this is this is for all of us, but the the optics of this just messaging this at a time that
we've just had such um celebration of all the 21st century scholars and more FAFSA and now we're having to cut. It's just it kind of goes counter to that. So, you know, question is, can can we all get some consistent talking points
or at least know how you're going to be messaging this? Um, and then the other this is a completely irresponsible suggestion u especially coming from a CPA on the budget and productivity committee. But, um, at the risk of
kicking the can further down the road, you know, we don't want to eat through that full surplus. I completely agree with that. But um do we perhaps eat into it a little more and make this a little less painful than it is? We've got a
legislative session coming up. Can we work with the elected officials and and look at other potential levers um to not have to do as much as we're we're proposing here? Again, I'll I'll I'll admit that that's more from the heart than the accountant brain, but um it
also just is a more consistent message than than getting everybody ready to go and your leading indicators are all looking good and then we're going to cut. >> Yeah. >> Yeah. >> Noted on that one. Um I I think that we
need to move forward with what we think we're going to have not uh and I don't anticipate an increase in the funding with that. We will definitely get the the communication points around why. I mean it is clear the Obam is one of the most generous programs in the nation. It
is one of the best ways to create access. Even with this reduction, they're still spending $44 million on more on students as well as having higher rewards for our media students by 15% from two years ago. So, there is this one-year kind of uh outlier, but we
are still spending more and awarding more than we have historically um other than just one year. One other question I guess that would be helpful I think with the talking points too is just um >> given that a lot of this was caused by
the change in the federal behaviors. How many other states are grappling with this? I mean I I guess guessing we're not alone here. >> Yeah, Angel Mallister who's our state director of any train and I were just at a national conference the last week of
April for everyone that got sued state financial aid. Um, and I can tell you it's far worse in other states if not similar. So, we're all we're all doing this. Um, two things I want to call you to address NY's question, but also to prepare you for the future. Um, part of the reason why we're asking you to
approve this now so we can get on the state budget committee in December is because we want our financial aid offices across our campuses to be get financial aid awards out this spring. If the FA is going to open in December, we want them to be able to utilize information as soon as possible to let students know what they could get for
next year. And if we don't do this now, we'll have to wait until April to confirm these awards. Um, so we want to get information out to students as soon as we can. The second thing that I'll say is when we get through April 15th and we have this full year cycle and then the new FASA that our current
students and new high school leaders for a while, we want to immediately start working on what the 26 27 schedule would be. um so that we can get on the state budget committee and before you much earlier um to signal to institutions what is coming. We historically
complained early for that in the past. We just couldn't do that this past year because we didn't have the date in time, but we would want to return to an early signaling of what the awards are to come. >> Yeah, we came before June 2022. uh we historically would be able to do things like this in June but due to the
fast issue we're doing it later these years. So um any other thing that we will change uh historically this has not been run through budget productivity committee this will start moving through budget productivity committee uh as well.
>> Yeah I applaud that you guys are trying to get it out sooner. I mean, it amazes me and I know parent website with my kids school there people after they dropped their child off of school and didn't yet know what it was going to cost them
which >> Yeah, we're hearing that across the country right now. >> Mindb can't imagine the stress of that. But I'm sitting here thinking by the time they find out in the spring it's too late >> Yeah. >> Yeah. to apply to a different school if for financial reasons they need to go
somewhere more affordable. Um so I appreciate I have no appreciation getting information sooner related to this stuff. Um this feels huge to taking on in a
moment here. What would the cost be if we were to grandfather this >> to continue with the schedule that we have this year going forward of around 50 million more a year?
>> Oh yeah. >> Yeah. >> Um I'm just saying that those kids who in their lifetime we haven't decreased the bonding that we see on now in two years when they are out of school. I mean,
halfway through a path, they're just they don't know. I can see where this really interrupts their their education. If if we Josh, correct me if I'm wrong. If we were to do that, say with the
level of funding that resulted in what is currently fiscal year 25, if we do that two years in a row, we will deplete the reserve and we will exceed the appropriation of the state. >> Yeah. Yeah. I mean, that's sort of the bottom line. That's sort of the bottom
line. Pretty bottom line. But if I could address something too. Um, first of all, it's a great discussion. Um, this is literally the stuff that keeps us awake at night as the staff.
Um, you know, whether it's talking points or whether it's sort of the bottom line of this, you know, for this 2025, I just wish the federal government had had their act together. that's just been working with that um because this
you know the the programs of financial aid are really well managed prepared Indiana I am bragging books and I've done for a long time um Josh referred to as an outlier I said you know aberation
you know the one-year instance the thing I keep going back to is that I know beginning in what was fiscal year 24 because of the actions of this commission, state budget committee, and others.
begin 2024, students in Indiana, particularly low income. to students in Indiana. I just wish we' never had the challenges fal year 2025 that did occur.
We're running up against losing our quorum here. I don't want to cut it off. Um, we're voting here to move this forward so that you can roll it out. Basically, >> we can go to the state budget committee in December.
>> Yeah. So, unless there's a significant change that someone thinks needs to be made at this point in time, we need to approve this, right? Yes. >> It's not that it won't change. No, correct.
>> But we need to approve the the recommendation, if you will, is put on the put on the table. Is that correct? >> Yes, sir. >> Motion to accept the proposal that that has been presented to us. >> Second. Okay.
>> Recognizing not a easy subject and lots of concerns. Um, is there any are there any other final comments? >> Okay. Hearing none, all in favor say I, please. I >> above the same. >> Okay. Thank you. >> Thank you.
>> Thanks for explaining a very complicated and challenging issue. >> Um thank you by everybody. Uh let's see. Do I Where am I? Oh yeah, we have we're at the end. So any new business or old business uh anyone would like to to
bring us? Huh? We got 35 >> and anyone else? All right. Thank you all very much. Meeting journ. >> Oh, shoot. I'm sorry. Well, no.