##VIDEO ID:https://iga.in.gov/video/124/2025/committees/house/standing/committee_ways_and_means_2200/media/ab3a546a-78cc-4c76-9610-78bf7d4b7ba6/1-30-25_Ways_And_Means.mp4/1-30-25_Ways_And_Means.m3u8## As usual, there's our penalty jar for those that wanna keep your cell phone on. And so with that, we'll get started and get going. I know we're we're a little bit behind, but we'll try to catch up. If we don't, we don't, and that's the way it is. First, I have the Office of Transportation and Infrastructure. So go ahead and introduce yourself, please, and we'll go from there. Thanks for being here. Is this on? Yeah. Okay. Okay. Alright. I guess, first of all, I'd like to get started thanking, chairman Thompson for having to sit here, and I'm happy to see some old cohorts from my years past here. And, I appreciate very much being back engaged in state government. That's a different level than I had prior to this, but I know exactly how them seats over there feel. So, we're really happy to be here, and and thanks a lot for having me. For for those of you who don't know me, I guess I'll start out with a little bit of an introduction of who I am, where I came from, and and, get started with the rest of it. But I guess I don't know how far back you'd like for me to go, but I'm come from a very, very large family. I'm number seven of 11 kids out there, and, I learned a lot of things because dad beat my butt if I didn't pay attention. So, but that carried me a long ways in my life, and and it's worked pretty well up to this point. And to this day, even my wife still does that. So, but she keeps me in line very much. But, see, as far as my family, my immediate family, I'm I'm married and have two sons and three grandbabies, and I couldn't be any happier to have them grandbabies. The first words out of their mouth is papa. So, you know, the the ladies in the family can get upset about that because they're the ones that clean their butts and change the diapers and all that and what. Halfpaw is the first thing you can say. So but past that, you know, got out of high school. My, my dad obviously put the question to me, son, what are you gonna do, with your life? And, well, I guess I'll go to the army. And guess what? I didn't go to the army. I had a older gentleman ask me if I'd cover a couple weeks of vacation for him at a coal mine, and forty seven years later, I retired. So and that was So, very good career and then mining career, very proud of it. Good people that I worked with all through that. And, in I'm sure you can look and see where I've been throughout my life and Spent most of my time with, Peabody Energy and was vice president and general manager for Peabody Energy in Indiana for most of that time period. So worked very good for me. During that time, 2010, I got elected to the house of representatives and, served three terms in the in the middle of my third term. I I did resign. I found out I was spending way too much time away from home. I mean, away from work doing the things I need to do, and I think my wife would have kicked my butt had I chose the one that didn't pay the bills. So that all worked good for me and happy to be here today. Got involved with the governor Braun on the campaign, and he asked me to take this, vertical and happy to be here doing that. So with that, I mean, I'd like to introduce my chief of staff, Andrea, who has been a absolute wonderful help for me. And, Andrea, you wanna tell where you're headed? Hi. Nice to see you all in familiar faces. My name is Andrea Zimmerman, chief of staff for the transportation infrastructure vertical. Previously, I was deputy chief of staff at NDOT and had served as legislative director for a number of years there as well, and then spent four years with, the House Republican caucus as legislative assistant. So happy to be a part of Governor Braun's team with Secretary Yubilar and to work with you all in this new capacity. Okay. With that, guys, I will get started here. But I guess, a little bit about the vertical. I mean, so in this transportation infrastructure vertical, we have NDOT, BMV, the broadband and Northwest Indiana Regional Development. So while I've only been in the sea for two point five weeks here now, but I've gotten around trying to learn as much as I could about all of them, talked with a lot of people, still a ton to learn and and get my arms wrapped around up around, but, very eager to to get going on all of it and plenty of work to do out there to get it all done. But I'll do the best I can to keep you guys informed as to what's going on. And and, anytime that you feel like you need to get a hold of me for anything, you know where I'm at. So I'll get with that, I'll get started. And, first one that I'll get into is gonna be, just how the governor's priorities with this vertical. So in alignment with the priorities set forth by Governor Braun, the transportation infrastructure vertical has three main priority areas. That's including the future proofing and diversification of the revenue streams, optimizing the agency internal processes for efficient enhanced efficiency and modernizing customer service functions for improved constituent support and level of service. Ultimately these three areas of focus will provide greater return to tax payers and propel Indiana's infrastructure into a better service for Hoosiers. So there's a lot of things to do out there. I would be remiss. And if I didn't tell you, I have not even come close to overturning all the stones that I need to overturn. Overturn. Certainly, I'm looking forward to do that. I've got a great team behind me to help me. I've got, several people sharing information not only across each agency, but also the vertical. So I know they overlap a lot. It's certainly willing to work with any of them anywhere I can. So the transportation and infrastructure vertical is unique in comparison to many of the other verticals you will hear hear from as a major as the major of funding to these agencies is dedicated funding. There are small general fund allocations in Ndop and broadband, but most general fund dollars are used as federal funding, programmatic matches. The one exception being where we will start today and that's with the BMV. So, Kevin Garvey, who is not here today, is the chief for the BMV. He's got some representatives in the room here. And if we need to talk more about that, we will. But I wanna move on ahead with what we're doing here. But moving into the budget overview, the BMV has four main operating funds, the Bureau of Motor Vehicles Commission Fund, BMVC, a general fund allocation, the Motorcycle Operator Safety Fund and the Technology Fund. Total funding is approximately 184,000,000. The BMBC is the largest of these four funds and is a dedicated fund at nearly 135,000,000. The revenue that supports this fund primarily comes from fees charged for various services. For instance, each time a Hoosier obtains a driver's license, renews a vehicle registration or title of vehicle, those fees contribute to the commission's fund. The majority of expenses in the fund come from personal transactions related costs and facilities. Next is the technology fund, which accounts for approximately $18,000,000 of BMV's budget. The Tech Fund receives $0.5 per transaction from the BMVC. The agency processes over 13500000.0 transactions per year, generating roughly $650,000,0.0 for the Tech Fund annually. Additional revenue comes from the data sales. This fund is used to support the agency's technology initiatives as well as maintain and upgrade STARS, which is an operating system maintained by the BMV to process all of its transactions. While the tech fund is currently healthy, historically, it has received transfers from the BMVC to help offset technology costs. Additionally, the BMV STARS system is aging and will need to be upgraded in the future. The third BMV fund is the Motorcycle Operators Safety Fund, which accounts for nearly $14,000,000 I'm sorry, dollars 180,000,0.0 of the BMV's overall budget. Motorcycle operator fund revenues is closely aligned with costs in the fund, but operating costs are rising year over year due to the growing number of riders trained in its safety program. The majority of the expenses of the fund are attributed attributable to the training related costs. BMV works with over a dozen vendors to provide the necessary education to motorcycle riders. The BMV has seen great success with its training programs with nearly 10000 individuals trained last year alone. BMV may see revenues keep up with expenses if third riders begin trained eventually purchase, register a motorcycle. The fourth and last main operating fund of the BMV is the general fund allocation. In order to save taxpayer dollars, the proposed budget reduces this allocation by 5% or $310,000,0.0 over the biennium. This administrative redirection brings the BMV's general fund allocation closer to the appropriation. General fund is largely used for labor benefits and operations. Any questions on anything at B and B? Any questions, Representative Anjati? I'm sorry. Thank you, Mr. Chairman. Looking at the budget, last year in my district, the DMV shutdown the only branch that I had. I know there was a public hearing that was, done in my community to get feedback from the community members. Had a dialogue at that time, Commissioner Hogy, to discuss that. And, it's a very community that has a lot of aging members, and so they rely on going in person. It's the only first interaction that a lot of actually constituents have with any state agency, like getting their first driver license, or their permit. And I know that there's a shift vertically where the BNB wants to go into more kiosks. And, you guys have any plans of shutting down more branches throughout the state and actually going just on the kiosk side? We're looking at every possible initiative to save taxpayer dollars. We're gonna do that every single time. As far as are we looking at a branch to close? I don't have one in mind yet that we're gonna close. However, as you well noted, if we do look at any of that stuff, we will have the public hearings and have have the all the there is a a process in which we do that that we would open up for the public hearings. Are we going to increase kiosks as much as we can? Of course, we will. We'll make that as available as possible across the whole state, and hopefully we can get and put in all that stuff has risen. The uses for that has risen, tremendously throughout the year and over the years it's been introduced. So, we have great, faith in that working in the future as well. Thank you. I have a follow-up. So with this proposed budget that you guys are asking us, this will fund the current BMVs that you guys have, all the branches throughout the state, right? And there's no foreseeable of any more branches closing throughout the state? No. The the budget that we have will fund everything that is operating today. Okay. But I do want to say, if we can find savings anywhere out there for the state and for the taxpayers, we will certainly do it. So with the budget, once again, there's no foreseeable changes of closing any BMV branches here in the 2025 or 2026 calendar year. Correct? Well, I I don't wanna answer that directly, and here's why. I'm as the governor has directed, we're gonna look for any efficiencies that we can find. He has directed me to pick up and turn over every stone, look for everything that we can get to the extent that I can do that. I'm gonna do it. And that's my marching orders, and I will do that. So I'm not gonna sit here and say never will we do this. Never will we do that. That's not what I'm made of. I'm I am a manager. I am gonna overturn every stone that I can. I will look for savings for the taxpayer anywhere I can get it. Now, the end result also that the governor wants is how can we service our people better? That's gonna be first and foremost. We're not gonna try to go out and do something just to save a dollar or or get rid of a person or lay off a person. That's not what we're all about. How can we best serve the constituency and save money at the same time? So, you know, look, I've got a ton of ideas across the entire vertical. If I was to sit here and tell you guys all my ideas, there's gonna be someone out there that say, well, he's crazy. That won't work. That won't work. That won't work. I don't know if it will or not. What I am gonna do is I'm gonna engage all the staff, whether it be BMV, Ndot, broadband. We're gonna look for savings and wherever we can get them and still serve the the constituents. That's what we wanna do. Thank you. So I hope that we continue to be fiscal responsible Yeah. While at the same time ensuring that our Hoosiers have the best service possible without shutting their branches. Thank you. I think that's the correct answer. Representative Klinker. Matt, what was your position before this in state government? In in state government? In in state government? Yes. Well, I was representative. That's from where what district? District 62 in Indiana. Okay. That's where we all are familiar with you. Thank you. I'm sorry? That's why we know you so well. Yeah. Yes. I served with you before. So so yeah. Yeah. Yes. You did. Well, congratulations for this position. My question was, do you feel like the districts are the correct districts today, or if you were starting it over, would you change the districts anywhere? Are you happy with where the districts are? Well, see, I was I was I haven't even gotten into the NDOT yet. Oh. But I I'm sorry. I will tell you that if you want me to answer that question. You know, them are lines on a map. Them were made with a pencil. You know, they can be erased. They can be added to. They can you know, I don't I'm not gonna sit here and tell you that I'm gonna shrink anything or expand anything. Yeah. Will. Will I challenge the people in the in the agency to look at efficiencies across each of the district? You better believe I will. I mean, that's what we need to do to be better. I'll I'll do that every time. That's my marching orders. Find things that we can do to be better in any way that it is. Well, many of us have worked with them and and they've really worked to do a good job. Transportation group. They do. And and I tell you, we have a lot of talented people and and, you know, but sometimes, you know, we need just need to take a good look inside, ask the right questions, challenge ourselves, and find some some better ways to do things. I think several different ways to do that is gonna be through technology, Yeah. And and asking ourselves tough questions. That's that's what I wanna do. That's where I'm gonna come from. Did you serve on roads and transportation, Matt? I did not. I was on ways and means the whole time. Okay. For five years. You were, but I thought maybe you were on roads too. No. I was not. Okay. Thank you. Okay. I'll move on to the the INDOT stuff here. And, chief Abernathy is with me, and he's got, some of his staff with him, the CFO. And and, again we're happy to get into anything that we need to get into. But as I started in the NDOT here, of course I poached one of their best. So happy to do that and I couldn't get along without the information and knowledge I've gotten from her. So, the transition to our second agency, NDOT has six district offices and a central office. In the agency had $3,830,000,000,.00 in obligations consisting of 2230000000.00 annual state capital expenditures, dollars $63,380,000,0.0 annual operating budget, dollars $9.34,000,000 in additional local capital program, multimodal and debt service. This funding services over 29000 total roadway lane miles and 5000 NDOT owned and maintained bridges. NDOT is consistently working to improve Indiana's roads and bridges. Since 2017, has resurfaced more than 18000 lane miles of pavement, representing more than 50% of the total NDOT inventory and repaired or replaced over 4500 bridges. Nearly 79 of the total number of bridges on state maintained roads through '24. Excuse it. State's continued focus on improving and maintaining existing infrastructure has brought us to ever closer to the goal set as part of the plan. 95% of all state maintain payment, 98 of all state maintained bridges in fair or better condition by 02/37. At the data showed 94.3% of all state maintained roads are in fair or better condition and 97.1% of all state maintained bridges are in fair or better condition. To achieve this, NDOT developed a strategic system, systematic and disciplined approach to operate, maintain and improve Indiana's transportation assets to ensure that we manage our assets to achieve and sustain them in a state of good condition over their life cycle at a responsible cost. In addition to maintenance, preservation, capital projects, one of the state's most popular programs, community crossings, just awarded nearly $140,000,000 for the second call into two twenty three communities across the state. In total, dollars $3.47,000,000 was awarded to four seventy five communities for over 4000 projects and 24 alone. More than 180,000,000,0.0 in state funds has been awarded since 2016. Since its inception, community crossings matching grants funds have awarded in all 92 counties with most communities receiving awards multiple times providing impactful long term road and bridge improvements. As mentioned, NDOT is dedicated funding agency receiving approximately 60% of annual funding from state highway revenue and 40% from federal aid appropriations. This total totals to $750,000,000,0.0 biennium budget. Of note, Indiana's largest program is the state capital program, which encompasses major projects and preservation. The state capital program represents 59.4% of all total bridges over all total budgets at over $4,000,000,000 Although the state capital program is over half of the agency's budget, we follow a well established order of spending priority. First, allocating funding for debt service, then for operations. Remaining funding is available for distribution to the capital program where preservation takes precedence over capacity expansion in major products or projects, excuse me. Now turning to the operational component of N DOTS budget, labor and benefits account for just over $6.80,000,000 dollars slightly, slightly over half to N DOTS operational expenses. In addition to labor and benefits, the maintenance work program equates $2.87 for pavement, preventive maintenance and low cost quick deployment safety treatments. Additionally, with the operational budget in is the cost of highway maintenance equipment and vehicles at $79,000,000 The cost of supplies and other operational related expenses such as fuel for $189,000,000 In addition to detailing NdOT's proposed biennium budget, I would be remiss not to discuss future funding challenges. Indiana is on track for continued infrastructure management success. However, inflation and fuel efficiency standards are minimizing the agency's purchasing power, making programs and projects more costly to carry out, creating expensive budgetary shortfalls and project delays. In 2017, financial projection assumed inflation would continue at around 2.5% annually. This assumption was common at the time, reflecting historic results and industry's best practices. However, The U. S. Economy has shifted dramatically over the past six years. In response, Ndot continually monitors and adjusts its programs to ensure it remains fiscally constrained. For example, Ndot has delayed over 300 projects. Although inflation is moderating, it is not decreasing to previously anticipated levels. NDOT will be able to do less work in the future than it can do today with the same amount of funding. NDOT is continually adapting our program to offset the effects of inflation on our capital and maintenance programs. The agency has adjusted delivery times timelines and project scopes where necessary due to increased costs and the loss of purchasing power. In addition to inflation, NDA continues to see erosion of transportation funds due to increased fuel efficiency and hybrid adoption, leading to reduced revenue from motor fuel taxation. These concerns noted that the transportation infrastructure vertical looks forward to working with the members of the General Assembly, stakeholders and industry partners as these discussions continue in order to achieve our shared goals of finding a sustainable funding model and enhancing Indiana's infrastructure. We are heartened by representing Presley's House Bill fourteen sixty one and look forward to continuing to work with him on this substantial step toward greater infrastructure revenue generation and diversification. So with that, have any questions more on NDOT, I'd be happy to take them. Any questions, Representative Path? Thank you, Mr. Chair. So my question has specifically to do with I-seventy. In case you don't know, I filed a Bill ten eighty seven. I'd like to pave I-seventy, from Terre Haute all the way over to Richmond and make it three lanes. I drive it every day. It is a matter of safety. I don't know when the last time you drove it, but it's a rough ride, especially with the semis. You just stated that you've canceled or postponed over 300 projects. So I know that it's a question of funding. The fiscal on the bill estimated to be about $2,000,000,000 with $1,650,000,000,.00 in federal funds available leaving $3.50,000,000 for the state of Indiana. I know that's a big chunk but there are ways to pay by 70. So my specific question to you is again due to safety concerns what are your plans to expand I 70 to three lanes and when? Well, I couldn't agree with you more on wanting to get six lanes out of I-seventy. I'd love to do that. Funding is an issue though. I mean, that that's the first thing that we have to solve is the funding issue. I don't think that there is anyone in this room, and, yes, I drive I-seventy every time I come to Indianapolis. I know how rough it is. I know what the truck traffic is. I I see trucks parked on every ramp, sometimes six, seven, and eight of them at a time. I I get it. I understand. Would we would like to do that? Yes. Will it happen next year? No. It won't. You know, the the funding issues must be resolved first, And that's why I was happy to see the House Bill fourteen sixty one. And I think it's very, very, important. Yeah. Will there be some language changes here, there and in different places in the bill? There probably will be. I understand how the legislative part of it works, but that has to be done. We have to address the diversity of the funding. We have to do different things. Fourteen sixty one would put a lot of tools in the governor's hands to address that, and I I think that has to be the first piece. If we focus only on I-seventy, guess what? There you can say the same thing, maybe not rough as, but I 65 has some of the same problems as well. We have, some of the same problems on our state roads with, with, some rough areas. Get guess what? I've got a place on Highway 54 that as soon as I got this job, I got a bunch of calls. Matt, are you going to fix the river bridge to Bloomfield? You know, so, that probably won't happen either. But, I don't know if there's anyone in this room that does not want to see six lanes on 65 or 70. I certainly would like to see it. I think any of the transportation industry would like to see it. I think anyone that's wanting to locate a major business in Indiana would love to see it. I don't disagree with the premise of what you're wanting to do, but the funding mechanisms have to be very, very clear first. I'm simply advocating for it to move to the top of your list. I know you have nothing else to do, so thank you. I appreciate it. I understand. Representative Porter. Thank you, Mr. Chairman. Thank you, Mr. Secretary, for being here. It's good to see you again. I have a couple of questions. One of my questions is that which very few that I agree, with the presidency of the state of Indiana governor right now. Is Brown's economic development plan that anything that's developed, within a community that they have to, help build up that road around that interchange or whatever that's there. As you all know, that did not happen with the LEAP, project. Mhmm. So, in your role, what do you envision, in regards to transportation infrastructure around the new developments here within the state of Indiana? Are you what are you gonna put in place for that to to occur? Well, it's I guess, new developer around the state of Indiana, the the community crossings is is there. Okay? So any of that money would go out there as far as as far as, the vision of 1461 wants to get, you know, skin in the game from local communities to help on that. I support it. I know that there is that's a point of friction in some areas, but I think it's up to the legislature to put together. Okay. Is it a wheel tax or is there another way for them to fund that? You know, I get it. There's some communities don't want that, but that isn't for me to decide. That's gonna be the legislature in this bill to decide. So however that community can work to get some skin in the game, I think that's gonna be a driver for some of this stuff. As far as someone wanting to raise their hand and think the state's gonna finance all of it, I don't know that that will happen, especially with the the shortfall of funding that we have. And with 300 projects already pushed out, I mean, there's a lot of projects out there for us to get caught up on and take care of. But again, that's gonna come down to the funding every single time. Yeah. Follow-up question. Mr. Secretary, I've been on ways and means for for a few years. And one thing one issue that I've been trying to, get more traction on is the weigh stations. We used to have weigh stations. I passed by them a lot, and they're significantly closed. And at one point, when we we were do we deal with weigh stations, we would generate about $65,000,000 to $70,000,000 a year in regards to that. Now we closed them, and now we we don't get any dollars for for, you know, out of those waste stations that we have. So what do you think do you think we'll be able to look at waste stations again? Because that's a revenue source that's there, and that we're and I know they've been gone at least ten years. That's a lot of dollars that we could be obtaining to help with the infrastructure of our roads here. I think that's a great question. I just wrote it down here. I will look into that. It's nothing that has been on my radar in the first two and a half weeks that I've been here, but you just put it on. Let me take a look at it. Yes sir, because I mean, I said enough, but really we had them, it stopped, and we losing revenue. We could do a lot more. Thank you, thank you, sir. Thank you. Secretary. Yes, sir. Please just share that with our office and we'll pass it to the whole committee. Thank you. Representative Lopez. Thank you, Mr. Chairman. Thanks for being here. Appreciate it. Appreciate it. This is a tough vertical. There's a lot in here, and I appreciate the work you're doing. So as we've had these conversations and listened to the governor last night, we know that efficiency finding efficiencies and reductions where there can be some without impacting service obviously is a priority. As I think about in that specifically, one of the big challenges from previous experience to know you can run into is if the front end work isn't happening, the environmental work and whatever, you know, that could slow down projects. Workforce is always an issue. Are you concerned that, that either the reductions that you're finding is gonna impact hiring, or you're, you know, are you running into ability, the challenge with ability to find people out in the field and districts to do this kind of work? There is always a challenge, you know, in state government to find the people that we need. And with a lot of this work being seasonal, anyway, especially on the repairing, sure, that's always an issue for us. You know, that as far as the funding being the holdup, I don't see that being the holdup. I think we could advertise and get the people as we need them. I think with some of the things that the governor is wanting to do on preparing the workforce, I think that's gonna be, doing a lot of things to get people interested in a particular industry that could eventually lead into whatever it is that we might need. You know, so there's a lot of things that we can do as far as the holdup on a lot of projects. Again, yeah, the the environmental work that's out there and the lead times that's out there, a lot of that work has already been done. These 300 projects that we have listed here, that work was done and it was ready to go. We simply did not have the funds. I think the first thing that we have to solve is the funding issue. Some of them other things as we go along, you know, you know, is there some environmental, challenges that we have? Of course there is. There's some challenges from the federal government that that they put on the state. Hopefully, we've got partners up there that can help us. I've been talking with, Senator Young and and, Shreve on on some of them things. I think the other part on the funding thing that we will certainly engage our federal delegation on is that funding formula. You know, that sixty forty thing don't work very good for Indiana. I'd like to see either us get some of the the the, not the dedicated funds, but the discretionary stuff that is we we have not been recipients of this discretionary at all. So we need to engage them people on that. And can you change the funding formula to get more of that money? I mean, I think everything that we're talking about, yeah, there's some challenges out here, but right now it's gonna be getting the funding right to make sure we can carry on with these projects. I think we've got some good people in the agency that are getting the environmental work done in time. Getting caught up on 300 projects is a big, big deal. But I think, you know, to the extent that we need to put more people on to get some of them other things done, we can do that as time goes by if we see us running low. But the funding process is the one that really matters today. Gotcha. Thank you. Appreciate it. Good luck. Thank you. Thank you. You know, an interesting graph that you might wanna think about producing at some point, not in no hurry, is the estimated amount that a taxpayer will spend per mile Looking out in the future, I kinda see what that's gonna look like based upon what's gonna happen, and then the inflation adjusted amount they're gonna pay. And you can see how those graphs are gonna I don't know where they're gonna head, and that would kinda tell the story on what's happening to the taxpayer and what they're spending per mile. Yeah. I I it's it's gone up dramatically. The cost to to build a mile of road over the last ten years is gone. I mean, it hasn't doubled, but it's been very, very close. Right. Yeah. The tax that's going up. But if the taxpayers cost per mile is going the other direction because of fuel efficiency, that's What we've seen it. Okay. And based upon inflation adjusted, you'd really start to see what the picture looks like looking out a decade, wouldn't you? Yeah. And just show the data. The data's the data. It it's huge. It's a it's a big number that it's it's diminishing. There's no question that is going downhill at a rapid rate. K. Thank you. I mean I mean, bottom line, I mean, I've got a f one fifty truck. I can fill it up today, and and I've got 600 miles of range. The state of Indiana is a 40 miles wide. You know, if I'm driving across this state, I don't even have stopping by a candy bar, let alone to take a few. Yeah. You know? So, I mean, there's a lot of people that are driving through this state that do not participate in Indiana's roads. I mean, and that's a fact. 40% of our interstate traffic is out of state. That's right. Yeah. And that's just the way it is. Thank you. Thank you. Other questions? Go ahead and continue then, please. Yes. Thank you. Thank you. Okay. With that, I would like to get into broadband. And broadband, I've got the Director here and his CFO, Steve Cox, is the director. With broadband, that's completely federally funded. There's two grants, the digital equity program and the broadband equity access and Deployment Program known as BEED. So, there's a lot going on here. The Internet service providers are working with Steve to get bids in. We haven't received anything out there yet, but by the end of the year, we should have the entire state bid out and and, we ought to be able to get shovels in the ground late in the year there, but there's a lot going on there. There's nothing out of the state's pocket on this. It's all federally funded. Any questions on the broadband program? Any questions? Thank you. Kenya? Okay. Then, under the vertical, we also have the Northwest Indiana Regional Development. Sherry Ziller is the chairperson there. It is 100% dedicated fund entity as authorized by Indiana code 30 six-7.5. So again, with with, Northwest Indiana Regional Development, it was started back several years ago. Their their, curve or their their mission was to get the commuter rail stuff going in Northwest Indiana. I think they've done a good job on that. They've completed nearly all of their projects. I think the last one will be done at the end of this year. What's next for the regional development area? There are a ton of initiatives that they want to look at and there is a big list, so it'll be a directive from the governor on where we go with that. Any questions on that? Thank you. Any questions? Representative Krunker? Thank you, mister chairman. Mister commissioner, is the train still running and is it being successful? Is what running? The train running? Yeah. Yeah. The trains are running. The the ridership is down dramatically. Isn't? I mean, because of COVID, it is coming back, you know, but but it is not what it was was set out to be. It has brought in, the businesses like they thought it would initially, and it's provided a lot of, commuters a way into Chicago and the higher paying jobs, and they really want to stay in Indiana. So I think that part of it's gone good. As you know, if you're familiar with Northwest Indiana, that population decrease occurred dramatically. That's all stopped from that, and they're actually coming back up. So I think the the original vision of what that was supposed to do worked. Now what are our next steps? Are you in charge of that too? I'm sorry? Are you in charge of that? Yes. Yes. And is it going well in your estimation? Well, again, I've been in the job two, two and a half weeks. The the the work that I've I've done with with Sherry there and and the information that I've got from to to my knowledge at this point, they've they've accomplished the mission they were set out to do. K. Very good. Thank you. Representative Harris. Thank you, mister chair. So two and a half weeks, you haven't figured out the whole world of transportation in Indiana. I'm sorry. In two and a half weeks, you haven't figured out the whole world of transportation in Indiana? No. I haven't. I just, thank you for that. Just having a little bit of fun with you. Really, it was also just follow-up to what you said about RDA and the trains and everything working. I appreciate your support of that. RDA is doing a great job in Northwest Indiana, so thank you for that. Thank you. Thank you. And that's all I have, so I appreciate it. Thank you for presenting and being here. Next, we have Office of Commerce. Whenever you're ready, mister secretary, the floor is yours. Well, thank you so much, mister chairman. Hey, there we go. We doing all right? Good. So, Mr. Chairman, Vice Chairman, it's a pleasure to be here. Ways and Means Committee, it's a pleasure to meet you all. So I am the new Secretary of Commerce serving you and serving the Hoosiers, here in Indiana. I'd like to really do three things today. Been here in this post a little less than three weeks, but I'd love to share with you a little bit on my background. Love to share in terms of the objectives that the administration would like me to get done, during the time here. And then I would love to share the verticals that were are within, my oversight and then open this up for any and all questions you may have. Recognize that, given I've only been here for a short period of time, there may be things I can't answer for you today, but I will be more than happy to get responses to whatever questions that you may have. And I want to continue to make this an open forum with you. So in terms of background, first, I want to let you know I'm a Hoosier by choice. I break my career really into three segments. One, industry, public service, and higher education. I grew up in Louisville, Kentucky, graduated from University of Louisville. I'm an industrial engineer by degrees, but shortly after graduation moved to Indiana, and I've been here virtually, ever since. And, found myself very early in the nascent software industry, happened to be part of an organization that we actually built the supply chain management marketplace. And I think this is important when we talk about economic development and commerce because today, we the biggest constraint that we're all collectively dealing with is human capital, not not physical products, and we can talk more about that. So I think there's a lot to be said about, you know, demand and supply relative to physical products and how does that play into the overall human capital. I've been fortunate to have started a number of businesses here in Indiana. Like any entrepreneur, you get your scrapes and bruises. Some worked out well, some didn't work out so well. I've worked also with business owners, here in Indiana for small and midsize businesses where a business owner might be looking to transition his business or her business into something else. So have been able to work with very large Fortune 500 companies, but also have worked as an entrepreneur and worked with a lot of small and midsize businesses as well. And so from an industry standpoint, I feel like I've got a pretty good perspective in terms of some of the needs. But as always, we have to ask questions, we have to understand what those needs are. From from a public service standpoint, got a very strange phone call from a guy named Mitch Daniels in 'five who said, hey, I'm looking to bring, you know, business people into state government. I know you know how to grow things, but I know you know how to fix things as well. And I just asked him one basic question. What's what's the biggest challenge we're having as a state right now? And he said, I'd like you to turn around our state's pension system. At the time, I couldn't spell the word pension, knew nothing about it, but I feel very fortunate that I was able to get in and help serve the 500000 Hoosiers that depend not only on the pension today, but also depend on the information that we can provide. If you recall back in the with PERF, it was taken up to six months to pay people. When we paid them, we didn't pay them correctly. Really took that responsibility seriously, and and hopefully you are getting good service, but hopefully your constituents are getting good service. Mitch in a very niche way said after we got the the pension system corrected, I'd love you to chair the teachers retirement fund. This was also during the two thousand and eight financial crisis. You could imagine what was going on there. But we now have a comprehensive system in emperors, which is nearly 50,000,000,000. And I'm still very proud of the fact that a number of the leaders that I had put in place back in the 'seven, timeframe are still in place at the pension system today. I served Governor Holcomb as the Commissioner of Workforce Development, so I may have seen many of you in 2022. Workforce is a passion of mine because I clearly believe it is the economic driver in today's economy and clearly very honored when Governor Braun called to say, Hey, I'd love you to come in here and help serve as our secretary of commerce. And then I've also lived in higher ed. I'm a first generation graduate. Education is extremely important to me. If you're familiar with the Enlase Academy on the West Side Of Indianapolis, I was one of the founding board members of that and we just celebrated our ten year anniversary and it was fun to see the students and kind of where their careers are going, you know, after participating in that. Being a University of Louisville grad, I got a call from my alma mater, and asked if I want to come back and help connect the economic engine of the university with the business community. So I went down to Louisville, and I was there, as the CEO of building what's typically referred to as a innovation ecosystem. They ran into some issues and they asked me based on my experience to become chief administrative officer for the university. So had responsible for everything non academic, was a great experience. But then I left there to become the chief innovation officer at the University of Cincinnati where I spent five years building something called the Cincinnati Innovation District, which is connecting the physical aspects of the university with companies like Kroger, P and G, Fifth Third, as well as all startups were my responsibility. We were doing about one startup a year when I started. I'm very proud of the fact in less than five, we did 89 start ups. These are all legitimate businesses with legitimate CEOs and trying to create this over entrepreneurial ecosystem. Governor DeWine and Lieutenant Governor Houston took our model and deployed it to the three c's. So you if you go to Columbus, you'll see the Columbus Innovation District anchored around Ohio State and the Cleveland Innovation District anchored around Case Western Cleveland Clinic and a few others. And then last year, actually took this to mid sized cities and have innovation hubs now in Dayton, Akron, and Toledo. So, and also lastly, before I get into the priorities here, was fortunate enough to serve, President Daniels for the last fourteen years at the Purdue Research Foundation and just stepped down off that board. So if you're familiar with the Discovery Park District and the work we're doing here, in Indianapolis, you know, was intimately involved with a number of those things as well. So let's talk about the governor's objectives and what we'd like to get done with you and for the citizens here in Indiana. There's really four objectives. One is, and I'll talk about each one specifically, but quickly, upskilling the incumbent workforce. Two, instead of, you know, economic development just being about business attraction, how do we work with all regions within the state to really understand what the existing businesses here in Indiana, how do we help them economically grow? Three, how do we formally we've got aspects of this today, but how do we formally set up an office of innovation and entrepreneurship to really focus on Main Street Indiana for the kinds of businesses that we know will turn over? We know there are entrepreneurs out there that may be interested in these businesses. How do we accomplish that? And the fourth objective is we're fortunate as a state that we've been awarded three federal tech hubs. The hydrogen hub, the microelectronics hub, and the Heartland Bioworks hub. How do we bring those things to life? So I'm going to be laser focused and our organizations are going to be laser focused on accomplishing those four objectives. I want to make sure that as we do this that we're economically focused and we have economic metrics around how are we helping to improve the lives of Hoosiers and the businesses that are here today. So with respect to the first objective in terms of upskilling the incumbent workforce, why this is important is, a couple of reasons. One is, as you see our unemployment rate at 4.5% today, you know, most economists will tell you anything below 5% is full employment. We've had this for some time period today, and if you look at the US Chamber just published a report for every state, and the report they published for Indiana would indicate that for every hundred job openings we have here in Indiana, we only have 72 available workers. And by the way, if you look at that report across all 50 states, there is no state anywhere in The US where the demand is less than the supply of talent. So everybody every state is facing a similar issue. So when we look at this, you know, we have a lot of high value, high demand jobs that are going unfilled in employers. And traditionally, employers have looked outside the four walls to find talent. They're getting frustrated because they can't find the talent. We wanna ship this and help them understand how do you take an individual that's inside your organization. There's an opportunity to up skill them to fill a high value, high demand job. There's economic value for the individual because we're going to work to help increase their wages, but there's also economic value for the company in terms of increasing their profitability. So today in Indiana, if a company acquires a piece of equipment that increases the productivity of their organization, there is a tax credit that they get for that. We want to look at doing something similar for human capital because that is the constraint in most organizations today. So that is going to be a strong focus of how do we work with existing businesses. By the way, we have some examples. Here in town, community hospital recognized there's a nursing shortage and there's really no ability to get more nurses, so they have gone and looked at medical assistants and how they convert medical assistants to actually nurses. And they've moved people from $16 an hour to $30 an hour, just one example of the opportunity that I think lays in front of us. With respect to expanding our operation from a commerce standpoint to focus on existing businesses, what's really important here is economic development really has been to this point the attraction of new companies into Indiana. We really wanna focus on how do we start to work with regions to understand with those existing businesses, what are their needs, and how can we support those needs? Part of this too is gonna be a reconfiguration in terms of how we think about any new business that we might wanna attract to Indiana. This is Indiana. We are a very strong state. You've done great work to make sure that, you know, from a cost of living, from being tax friendly, this is a place where people wanna be. The reality is we have more businesses that want to be here than we have the capacity to take it on. So we're going to actually work with existing businesses, and I'm already starting that process to understand what other businesses would you like here. And then we're proactively going to call on those businesses and make our case for why Indiana. And we want this to be a strategic decision on why Indiana, and we wanna move ourselves what I call a beauty contest, which is let us know what incentives you're gonna provide to help us understand strategically why you wanna be in Indiana and start to think about this thematically relative to our regions because every region has different needs. And so how do we start to really listen to our customers, which are the employers, and try to understand from a commerce standpoint how do we support those needs? The third piece of this is the innovation and entrepreneurial office. Clearly within the IEDC today, there are a number of different functions that focus on the entrepreneur. Everything from venture capital to we do have programs that focus somewhat on existing businesses. As you've heard the governor talk about, we currently have an opportunity with the businesses here. Being an entrepreneur doesn't have to mean you're creating the next Google. How do we help assist innovators who may want to acquire an existing business in Indiana? How do we help them? What should the state's role be? By the way, I don't have answers for all this today, but we're gonna figure this out. But two, if I'm an existing business and I want to expand this business, are there opportunities for us to really be a partner with those organizations to help them make that happen? So this is really connecting with communities at every level to be able to support that. The fourth piece is we've been awarded these three tech hubs, how do we bring these to life? So my plan is for the three tech hubs we've had, let's create a vision, a strategy, and a plan around each one of these and start to really understand the financial resources that are required. And based on the financial resources required, let's see what we can do to secure those. Necessarily saying if we secure those as a state, but we've got a lot of other resources that we can look at. And for those, how do we start to put the state on a global basis as a beacon that if it's life sciences, this is the place you wanna be? And candidly, this will give us the opportunity to start thinking about how we retain and attract college graduates. So and and why I think this is important, just wanna spend one more minute before I get into the the the, agencies that I'm responsible for, is when I was in school, I'm not gonna completely date myself, but when I was in school, I was told to pick that first job very carefully because I was expected to be there 7 to 10 years. I will share with you my first employer told me I was working too hard, so that that didn't that didn't end up being the 7 to 7 to 10 year time frame. My 29 year old daughter, any any college grad today, a lot of the data, depending on what you read, will say that they're gonna have between 12 20 jobs over a 30 year career and potentially 5 to 10 different careers. So when they're picking a city, regardless of what the city is, they wanna see where are all the opportunities. And I think we've got an opportunity, especially with these tech hubs, to really stand up some of these innovation ecosystems and really illustrate the talent, whether you wanna do a start up or you wanna work for Fortune 500 company, those opportunities exist here in Indiana. And I think we can do this on a regional basis too. It doesn't just have to be the tech hubs. I really think we can do on a regional basis, how do we develop these innovation ecosystems that helps us continue to retain a lot of our college graduates? So those are the 4 things that I'm gonna be laser focused on, and we're gonna build metrics around this. And you've got my commitment. We're gonna have a lot of transparency to help you understand what's working well, but as importantly, what's not working well. And we want to focus on economic metrics. Things are gonna help actually impact the lives of Hoosiers here. So from a platform standpoint, I want to let you know that, I am committed to this. I'm gonna work as hard as I can each and every day, and we're gonna build a team here that can actually help us move this forward. So in terms of the verticals, in terms of how we're organized, so traditionally the secretary of commerce has had one responsibility, which is really to operate the IEDC. That is clearly a function of what's in this vertical, but we also have the governor's workforce cabinet, which representative Lopez was very instrumental in putting together. Originally, if you look at what the governor's workforce cabinet did or does today, it was really to work to bring agencies together and bring constituents from employers together to be able to solve workforce related issues. Corey, with this new secretary model, we're going to have to relook at the GWC and just candidly see if that structure still makes sense for us. I'm not prepared after less than 3 weeks to to make recommendations. I also have the Department of Workforce Development, which, haven't run you know, been a part of of running that agency. It clearly is focused on, you know, 85% of it funding comes from the federal government. It's focused on unemployed, low income, and underemployed individuals. I do think there's opportunities to expand in terms of the, capabilities of that function, but we're gonna have to again, you know, dig into this. With respect to go back a moment for IEDC. IEDC does fund the Elevate Ventures, which is the venture capital arm focused on startups, and and these startups are very VC based. In other words, somebody is trying to create the next Google or they're trying to commercialize the next piece of research. They are also engaged with a group called ARI, the Applied Research Institute. And the Applied Research Institute, as I understand it, was set up to help go after these federal grants that neither a state agency or an institution of public education, higher education could go after. Within this vertical as well, I've got responsibility for the IDDC, so our tourism function. And really, this helps us if you think about it. Right now, we have in Indiana, and I have Fort of the Bold. So when we're talking to Hoosiers or we're talking outside the state, we don't really have a consistent way of how we communicate. And so I really wanna focus on helping us get a a I'm not saying a tagline, but a brand here with consistent messaging of the value of Indiana. So that when we're talking outside Indiana, we can help organizations and people understand why Indiana, but most importantly inside of Indiana. How do we really stand up and share some of the wonderful things going on here to help inspire others about the activities that can occur? I also have responsibility for the arts commission and the state fair, as well as the ports. And if you think about the ports, we are the only, as my understanding and talking to our leadership there, we're the only state outside of the coast that actually can do container shipping. And I still have a lot to learn, but if we start to think about the competitive advantage of what that allows us to do, that could be very interesting to existing businesses here, but could also be an attraction mechanism, again, for the companies we want. Not necessarily the companies wanna be here, but the companies we wanna have here. With the arts commission and the state fair, what I'm learning as I as I dig into this, we touch a lot of Hoosiers on a daily basis. The state fair commission, as an example, touches approximately 1,900,000 people. And when I first came into this, I thought state fair, it's state fair. Well, no. Yes. There is a life that goes on with which is about 800,000, but we also host the big ten track and field championships where we also host the FFA, rodeo there. So there's the opportunity where we have not only an impact on Hoosiers, but we've got a lot of people coming into the state. How do we use commerce as a mechanism to help illustrate some of these these stories and tell some of these stories? And again, if we can inspire some minds, that's a good thing. But if we can also use this as a mechanism to help bring people into Indiana, how do we use these marketing, if you will, how do we use these voices to help tell some of our stories? So I think there's a lot of work to do here. I know you've got the budget in front of you. You've got my commitment, and again, I'm gonna open this up, but you've got my commitment. Well, I hopefully, the budget has been passed out at some point. I see. Anyways, happy to answer questions relative to this. I mean, clearly, we've got a lot of work to do. I know there's been a lot of discussion around efficiencies. I can tell you that my perspective on this is, yes, we have a lot of work to do, but we are going to focus on a constituent services and making sure we're delivering very well for the state of Indiana. We're also going to ensure that the dollars that you are appropriating to the activities that we're doing are well invested, and then I'm able to come back to you and help you understand too the return on the investment that you're making in the organization that we're here to support. So again, I'll stop there. For the new duty. Thank you, Mr. Chairman. Thank you. Thank you for your testimony. Very excited about the vision within the administration with IADC. You touched on a few things I'd like to talk about, the ports. Yes, sir. I believe I got the opportunity to tour the Savannah port, one of the fastest one of the fastest growing ports in the world, a couple of years ago. I learned a lot from that. And then looking at I think we believe we accepted our 1st containers within the last year up off Lake Michigan. That's correct. And looking at how we could compete with that, bring jobs here, development here. Then also, I think touching on the foreign trade zones that are within our state as well and how we can better utilize those. The other thing I wanted to touch on is the IDDC. I believe we put quite a bit of money in the IDC over the last budget, and I noticed that was slashed by about 75%. So I'd like to really take a look at that and see how effective that is in getting our state out there for others to come and attract folks here not only to live here, but also visit and spend their money here as well? So a couple of things. So one, there's quarterly thank you for your comments, representative. There's quarterly, a fair amount of work I've got to do just to kind of dig into the details around Cheerpoint, port and direct investment, the ports and things of that nature. With respect to the IDC, yes. I mean, there's clearly a significant cut. As governor Braun and I were talking about this, and my commitment to you is we're gonna use that as a starting point because candidly coming into this, I don't know, like, where all the dollars are going and what things are being used for. It doesn't mean there's anything not happening as we would anticipate, but I really want to take the perspective as a business executive of coming in and trying to understand every dollar being spent and where it's being spent. And there may be some adjustments at a future point, but I wanted to actually come in and take a very conservative approach to a time where we weren't investing significantly, and then let's work from there to understand what we need to do. Okay. Thank you. So excited for you and your and your team. Thank you. Representative Funch. Representative Harris. Thank you, mister chair. Thank you, mister secretary. Representative Judy, gave me a path that I was gonna head down, so thank you for that. I wanna talk about tourism. I'm a big proponent of tourism in Indiana. As, just mentioned, the slash, I believe, is 20,000,000 to 5,600,000. And when you look at tourism in the state, we we brought in a record 13,200,000,000, 81,000,000 visitors, tourism employed a 100 over 152,000. There's a bunch of other stats I could give. Yes, sir. So can you talk about your plans for tourism in the state of Indiana? Because as we see, it's been a great driver of economics and jobs. I know you talked about workforce. Yes, sir. And I think, in reference to higher ed, which I know you also talked about in terms of giving people an opportunity to get an education in Indiana and stay in that field here. Yes, sir. So if if we think about, a, you are correct. There are, right now, there's anticipated a slash from 20 to approximately $5,000,000 a little little less than 6. Just as I'm doing with the IDC, I want to get in, a, and just understand, you know, where those dollars are at and what the impact of those dollars are at. The other piece that I think we have an opportunity is if we think about tourism somewhat like marketing, there are a lot of marketing functions within my vertical. So one of the things I really wanna do is look across this Mhmm. And see about how do we get a consistent message. It doesn't mean we actually decrease tourism. I mean, that may be as an agency, but really look across this as a vertical and say, is there an opportunity for us to get a consistent message both inside and outside the four walls, which is going to be candidly one of our challenges as we progress through this in that, give me some time to get my arms around this, and I will come back at a future point. We may do some realignment of dollars or things that we need because I want to make sure that we get a level of consistency in terms of what we're doing. So just stay tuned. I appreciate it. But, you know, if you give me a little bandwidth, I promise I'll be back with you. But I'm not planning to reduce anything in terms of our impact in terms of putting Indiana on the map in a very real way as this is the place where you want be. Well, good. And and, hopefully, as you said, it's a start point. And in terms of support of tourism, we'll stay high. And then I just wanna remind you that northwest Indiana has great assets, like beaches, casinos, great restaurants. Talk to me later. I'll give you another list. Absolutely. Thank you. Representative Lopez. Thank you, mister chairman. Thank you for being here. Thanks for taking this on. A lot of things obviously that I could get into. I'm not gonna go down that road, today. But a couple of things that I just wanted to make sure that I hit on, that you said that I think I want to echo that are particularly important to me and I just want to reinforce with you. One is, you mentioned FFA, that's one great example. We have over the last 50 years built a brand in the state of, 1, by investing in the kinds of facilities and that we need. But we've built a brand that we do these events, and it's not just Indianapolis, across the state better than anybody. And that is a really important piece of the economic pie. It's not the economic pie, but it's a it's a big component of it. And I hope that the commitment to that remains because, because the return is clear. It's tangible, and it's and it's not just a question of the people that come and spend money in the direct investment, but it's also the our media value that we generate and other things. And I think, a commitment to that and and maintaining it not only builds on the assets that we've already invested in, and that we continue to invest in actually statewide, but but is is an important piece of what we do here well. The second, you mentioned technology, VC. Here again, I think we've built infrastructure. We this this body, and we, and the administrations, subsequent administrations have invested in creating the kind of infrastructure here that can set us apart from other places. From the technology standpoint, again, when I think of technology, it isn't just sort of what some other people think of technology, but agriculture is a great example and precision agriculture. Even in the sports industry, I mean, we we talk a lot about how one person with a cell phone could virtually create a blackout inside Cambridge Fieldhouse if they wanted to, and so cyber is critically important and and those types of things. So maintaining, investments in those types of industries is really critically important. And again, I don't think it's critically important only for central Indiana. I think a lot of this work is happening outside of central Indiana and we can continue to invest in it. And then the last comment that I'll make is, I think when you look at your vertical, more so than I think any other of the verticals, you have the opportunity to set the aspiration for the state. You you can define what it is that we wanna be and where we ought to be making strategic investments so that we continue to grow over the next 5, 10, 25, 50 years. And that's a that's a powerful thing, and some of it is branding. A lot of it is where we we are investing our dollars strategically. And so, I thank you for taking this on, and, and I'm looking forward to working with you with you and your team on that. Thank you. Well, thank you so much for your comments, and looking forward as well to working with you. I know even just with the state fair, they're excited to be a part of this vertical and hopeful that we can start to think about how to maximize additional opportunities and really be more outbound than even maybe we are today. So absolutely want to think about what these opportunities are, and again, continue to put the state on the map in a real way. I think one of the important points that I want to continue to emphasize, and it comes back to what you're talking about, technology or other things, is, you know, what's genuine and authentic to us, right? It's easy to want to be something you're not. And if we think about things, it's on a regional basis. We know here in Marion County that we've got a big life sciences component, but that's not true as we go throughout the other pieces of the region. I think part of what I really want to accomplish in this role is get out. I'm planning a listening tour very intently, the keyword listening, to really understand on a regional basis, like what are the opportunities, what do the regions see as the opportunities, and how do we actually build around that? And if we've got some technology clusters, as an example, how do we build around those specifically in those areas where that makes most sense? So those are the kinds of things I want to build on, but it's really we've got so many great things happening here. We don't need to chase things that aren't here. Let's try to figure out how to build around what we have. And I think, again, to the earlier point, we talk to employers and listen to what else they wanna be here. Probably shouldn't be sharing some of the specifics of some of the conversations I've had, but employers are very open to saying, you know what? These are the other businesses we would love to see in Indiana that would be complimentary. Good. Would you help us call on them? Because then we can be much more strategic about this. So thank you. Looking forward to working with you too. Representative Klanker. Thank you, mister chairman. Thank you for all the hard work you've done. Oh, thank you. We're very pleased in, Lafayette, West Lafayette to have SK Hynix, in the Purdue Research Park, which, of course, is going to have chip manufacturing and semiconductors. We're delighted. But we do have an issue with, a great 9,000 acres in Lebanon, which, I know we're looking for businesses, great businesses there, looking forward to that, but they need water. And we have this huge issue in our community with our mayors of using our water, from Wabash River. And I know they found, I think, 25,000,000 gallons from the White River that was transferred. But how are we going to handle that? How are we going to take care of what we need for the wonderful opportunities for business that we have in the future? It's a great question. So what I'm gonna do is I'm gonna work with secretary Joe Raski, new secretary of energy. Yeah. And what we have talked about is, I believe, just like, you know, workforce is a constraint, energy in general, whether it's water or electricity, potentially, we need to understand that better. So I'd love to see us get a strategic plan together for the state and understand, a, what are our needs today, b, what our needs potentially could be in the future, and how do we start to address some of these issues more strategically than tackling, oh, gosh, we're here, you know, we need to go do this now, and make sure that we're doing this in a communitive way, that we're having conversations with communities and trying to understand what some of these needs are. And then candidly, how do we start to address some of this? Because we know too, just like water, I mean, my understanding is we have a lot of water. It's the transmission and how you get it. But, again, very nascent. But electricity, we also know this is going to be an issue as well. So how do we work collaboratively? We've got the right people, get the right people at the table. Let's have these conversations strategically start to have the conversations we need, and then let's make some decisions to how we move forward. Well, the key is that with the manufacturing in our area, Purdue Research Park, we're going to be using that water. That's right. So, you know, there's a problem of letting somebody else in Lebanon use water that is needed for our manufacturing. So, we're looking for answers. But I I know our our mayor is stymied about that because he certainly doesn't wanna let that water go to Lebanon because it it takes a pipeline to get it there. That's very expensive too. So I wondered what kind of answers you were, looking for or searching for. Yeah. Well, so in the short term, I don't have an answer in terms of, like, what are we gonna do about that specifically. I've talked to Mayor Gentry in Lebanon. He believes he has what he needs currently. But again, I do think we've got to get an overall plan in terms of this and try to understand what the impact is. And just again, communicate, be a little bit more strategic about this. And I think if we get the right individuals involved, upfront, I think it gives us a better opportunity to figure out how we're going to address some of this. I don't want to do it after the fact, so to speak. Representative Heine? Thank you, mister chairman. Great presentation. You give me goosebumps. I love everything you said. That's bad. But, anyhow Yes, sir. You alluded that small business, you know, growing from within small businesses, but I just wanna give you an example. I love that that we're growing from within, but I'm gonna give you a large business that Steel Dynamics, one of those little small companies that made it big and one of the biggest producers in the world. Up in my area, US 30, they're on they just I'm going to back up they just are building a new plant in another state and when they build a plant they build theirs all their customers build around them because it's steel, aluminum, very expensive to truck. Up in our area, U. S. 30 is a parking lot. So there's 0 of their customers or their, suppliers that have built around them. And that's what as we go forward and I love growing our small businesses but we also have to look at our existing businesses that are huge. But if we would have the infrastructure we could bring more business to our state and wouldn't have to pay a dime to get them to come. So that's that's just what I wanted to say. Well, and I appreciate that, and I wanna thank you. And and I wanna make sure, you know, in this conversation, you know, we are going to work to segment out, too, as an organization, small businesses and how do we focus on those, midsize businesses, and then also the large businesses as well. So I appreciate your comments because they're all very important, and there are 3 different strategies depending on who you're talking to. And so you've got my commitment, we're going to look at that very specifically. And just to your point about STILLDynamics, it'd be a great opportunity to visit with you and them, even to try to understand, you know, what are other organizations, as an example, that we could potentially bring to the table to help support that and let us do the heavy lifting to maybe call on some of those organizations. And I'm looking forward to it. Awesome. Thank you. Representative Path? Thank you, Mr. Chair. Shout out to Terre Ho, we also have Steel Dynamics, so you're welcome to come visit us. Fair enough, I will. I have two areas of concern, with this. And my first one is, I'm going to piggyback a little bit on the IDDC. I understand a 5% cut of $20,000,000 is $1,000,000 but you're cutting from $20,000,000 to $5,000,000 and you're talking to a roomful of politicians who run campaigns and know how expensive things are. So my concern is that we should be giving IDDC more money, not less. Also I'm just going to keep saying this. I'm sponsoring a bill about outdoor recreation that goes through IDDC. So I'm very interested in tourism in our state. We've got to tell our story and we need money to do it. And outdoor rec is a big huge draw for us. So that's my concern on that one and I don't want to belabor the point because you keep hearing it. The other one is the Arts Commission. I believe you cut that one 33%. So you're taking them from around $5,000,000 down to approximately 3.5%. And again, that is not 5%. So I'm wondering what your reason is on that particular one. So Parks Commission, I've got to figure out where that sits because that I don't Parks, no. Outdoor Recreation. Oh, Outdoor Recreation. So Yeah. And that falls directly under IDDC. It it does not exist right now. That's what my bill is. Just so you know. You've got my commitment again. After 3 weeks, we've got initial budget. But what I'm planning to do, representative, is to really start looking detailed into this and trying to understand, a, do we have what we need, or does that need to be changed? But what I didn't wanna do is start use that as a starting point and and and not have an understanding and come down. I'd I'd like to go in and really start to understand. And back to my earlier point too, we have whether you call it tourism or marketing, there are a lot of dollars that we have in organizations today. I really want to take a look at that and see is there a more effective way in terms of how we can use those dollars. So I don't want to cut services is not the intent, but it's really to try to understand like where we're at and do we have everything we need in order to support this. I just didn't want to come in. I mean, the intent wasn't to come in and say, okay, because we did this last year, you know, this is the appropriate amount. So that's why some of the changes. Well, I understand that. But again, I understand a 5% is completely different than 33% or 75%. And I just want to push one more push on the arts here. Our arts commission and arts in general, they impact businesses, local organizations and youth programs. And I would argue that during COVID, that was one of the biggest problems. People didn't get to participate at concerts, museums, all the things that bring people joy. I mean, there's a lot of things that bring people joy, but the arts certainly brings people joy. And so I would argue that we need to again, I'm always in more funding would be better than less. So thank you. Thank you. And if I may just one quick comment. In terms of talking to Maya Michelson, she actually has some programming and things that, you know, beyond, just some of the programs we support, there may be some additional and, again, we have to dig into this, but there may be some revenue opportunities for the Arts Commission. They're doing some very creative things that potentially we could actually roll out to corporations and some other things. So we're going to explore some opportunities to actually maybe offset some of the cuts as well. Well, thank you. And a shout out to my father who is 81. His name is Fred Nation, and he is still working running our local Terre Haute Swope Art Museum. So we would love for you to come visit it Love to. Anytime you're in Terre Haute. Thank you. And I'm a former violinist and pianist yeah. So, anyway, so I have a, an affection for the for the arts, so we're we're there. Representative Green? Thank you, mister chairman, and thank you for your presentation today. I was, I was listening to my colleague, representative Lopez, when he said, setting the aspiration. It really struck it really struck me. You know, listening to the state of the state last night and then your presentation today, the the emphasis on human capital over venture capital is is something that's that's, you know, struck me. This, this committee and, obviously, governor Braun have an eye on Medicaid spend and what's that what that is gonna look like over the coming years. And a big a big challenge within that are individuals who are out of the workforce, individuals with a disability. And, nationwide, that hovers around 80%. Indiana's a little bit better, high seventies. Still, I find that to be pretty uncomfortable. With an emphasis on human capital and, you know, setting the aspiration as you said, I mean, businesses both here in the state and individuals looking to locate here are gonna look to IEDC for, sort of a Overton window shift, right, and, and and follow your lead on things that you value and find important. And, you know, obviously, this is an issue that's cuts across a lot of agencies. I think we tend to put it strictly on FSSA or strictly on the new health and human services vertical or one agency. And, it's more comprehensive than that. And I think, you know, having a having a desire for your agency to find within that to change a narrative on that, to talk with these businesses about what they're doing in that space. You know, know, I think a fine, as you talked about with your daughter and, you know, in her age cohort and shifting, jobs. You know, I think you said, you know, 18 10 to 18, different positions and jobs like that. A lot of studies show that individual disability have higher, less less rates of churn, less rates of turnover, safer, more productive. And so this is a ready workforce out there that I'd love to, to have your agency, just be speaking to or focusing on in some form as you're as you're focusing more on the workforce development side of this. So just a comment. Thank you. And thank you so much. And human capital is the most valuable resource we have as a state, so we need to do everything we can to bring everybody along. Thank you. Representative Jordan. Yeah. Thank you, mister chairman. This is my question I ask every 2 years, and so it's almost the rain on everybody's parade question. And, frankly, I asked it 2 years ago, from somebody that kinda sits in your seat and and believes in industry policy, probably more than I do. But where are you philosophically on the spectrum of government has a role of basically doing nothing all the way to having industrial policy that oversees what happens within the borders of the country, the state, the county, whatever. I mean, I put my cards on the table. My colleagues will will say I'm probably too far on the spectrum of government has a role of building infrastructure. And then there's freedom and opportunity for other people to build on top of that to use that phrase. So I am a bit on 2 years ago, I was a bit uncomfortable with how much money we gave to IEDC. And in the end, maybe I was right, maybe I was wrong, but so it does impact kind of how we fund what you do based on philosophically where you think you and your organization fit in in a free economy. Where so just I'll back off for a second and say where are you on kind of the spectrum of capitalism versus industrial policy versus freedom freedom, just just for my own edification? Yeah. So a couple of things. 1, I don't think we, as a state, philosophically can decide what we want to be as a state strategically and just say this is it, because I think every community is different and the needs in the community are different. I think there's an opportunity for us to be an enabler, to be a supporter, to be able to help assist with issues as they arise. And so I look at this from a commerce standpoint and say, what are the opportunities for us to help economically move the state forward? We know that human capital is the biggest constraint. Are there opportunities, you know, in this example, the Hoosier Investment Workforce Tax Credit, are there opportunities for us to help employers shift that paradigm that maybe they haven't thought about? And so I do think there's the opportunity for us to be an enabler, representative. I do believe there's an opportunity to, as you've heard me testify today, to really focus on the things that are genuine and authentic to who we are. And, you know, businesses are for profit entities. They've got their business to run. But if we as a state can use the, abilities we have to help build a stronger economy around those organizations, then I think if if we can do that effectively and and be able to measure the ROI, I think that's a good use of capital and resources to be able to do it. But I think we've got to be very thoughtful with our partners. I always think this is very much as a collaboration. I don't think we, as smart as we all are as human beings, can sit back and just say, Hey, I think we need to go do this. I think the other piece to this that we can play a significant role, not just as commerce, but as a state, is right now there is more demand for places and locations than there is supply. And I think we can be somewhat of a governor on that, if you will, to decide, you know, what businesses we want here and what businesses we don't want here. I don't mean this in a bad way, but, you know, a lot of the way economic development happens today throughout states is, I always call it a beauty contest, you know, who's going to give me the sweetest thing? And I would love to really turn this around to say strategically as we think about the economy, because how do we help support the businesses that exist here and the ones that they want to have here? So I hope that I mean, just trying to give you a flavor philosophically where I think we can help support. And by the way, I'm a firm believer, that as these programs have achieved their objectives, we don't necessarily need to continue to have the program. So I may come back to you at some future point and say, hey. What we've done here, and I don't know that, but that serve his purpose because we've catalyzed a specific area, might be something we wanna sunset. Right? So Representative Roeh. Thank you, mister chairman. Thank you for being here. I was very impressed that you could just rattle through all of that, which tells me that you've already hit the ground running, and you've done a lot of research already. So I'm appreciative of that. This area is like my wheelhouse. I just this is where I get all excited. I'm I'm a firm believer in economic development. It doesn't happen without workforce development. Workforce development doesn't happen without intentional behavior all the way pre K through whatever level of education you're going to attain and aspire to. So full disclosure, my day job is an economic developer for Delaware County. I represent 2 counties, Delaware and Madison. I there's just a couple of things. Again, this is my real house. Whenever I hear the word regional, I just kind of cringe. And the only reason why I cringe is because the regions are not, they're not uniform. So for instance, DOT, we just had it's it has its own regions. IDDC has its own regions. IDC has its own regions, DWD, they don't match. And so for ready, which was phenomenal, and I'm super thrilled that we did ready, that's been a game changer for a lot of our communities. The community in which I live and work was put into a region that I just said, You've got to be kidding me. We have nothing in common with this county that is nearly 2 hours away. And I understood some of the regions for economic development with Ready, but some of them made zero sense to me at all. So when you're out doing your listening session, I just would be really careful because my personal experience with ready, sitting so we did ready here, and then I went home, and I sat at the table with my regent as one of my 2 people, and it was like the Hunger Games. Yeah. It literally was like the hunger games. And I'm sitting there going, people, this is not what we intended. This is not what this body intended. So when we were talking about quality of place, you know, I choose to live in a very small community. So I will just give that as an example. This small community did not ask for this in Ready, but it was like, we want to fix this park, and we have a very small park. And I'm thinking, this is not transformational. That's not what Ready was supposed to be. And so, should we be blessed with ready on your watch? I hope that you will rethink how we do that because that was my personal experience on the ground was that was challenging. But from that regional perspective, also, when you're on the listening session, you're to me, you're basically speaking target industry studies. And is that your intention for how will we flesh out what futuristic workforce looks like? You're going to take the assessment tool of this is what this region has and then look at what might be a spin off or, is that your intent? Yeah. The intent is, you try to understand. So I mean, you know, the easiest one is because we're in Marion County right now. I mean, we can think about the life sciences pieces and thematically that life sciences make sense here. What other businesses would we like here thematically to help continue to build the life science ecosystem. That's going to be different than if we go to Fort Wayne or Evansville or some other thing other piece of it. And so part of this is listening to understand not just even specific industries, but the kinds of businesses. And it may range. Some may be like we're never going to have a big company here, but we've got a lot of small businesses here that these businesses are all going to turn over in the next 30 years. Are there entrepreneurs that potentially want to acquire those businesses and continue on in that community? So I think it's going to depend. You're raising something that, I'm just going to be very candid, I don't have figured out yet, right? Because we have 12 workforce boards. I've got Lidos, I've got Ritos, we've got the, ready regions, we've got RDAs. So trying to figure out even with my team, because I've made this a priority with my team, I want to go on listening tours. But us getting this figured out in terms of how that listening tour evolves is going to be, I think, our collective challenge. And so I'm going to work hard to I know the ready regions came together and it's, A, a good starting point, but I know we have other things too. I just want to make sure that I have the ability to canvass the state in an effective way. I'm an engineer by degrees, but I'm also very visual, so I've asked for some heat maps. Just give me a state of Indiana and kind of help me understand where the ready regions are and where the, you know, where some of the gaps are. And so, we're going to have to work on this. There's no, you're raising a good point, and I don't have a great answer other than I recognize there's an issue that needs to be addressed. With respect to it's not just going to be the industries, because it also could be to the point it could be, you know, start ups and things of that nature. Representative, you know, given, you know, I I 100% agree with you. Workforce and economic development are completely linked. One of the things I think we've got to figure out collectively is how do we get the demand signals better aligned with what's really needed? Because I think that's one of the big challenges we collectively have is that traditionally, higher ed, and I've lived in higher ed, you know, it's a supply based system, like, let's just go do this and things will turn out well. Well, that's not kind of the world we live in. So how do we get closer with employers to understand better what they're trying to get done? And by the way, this is not a very natural thing for them either because they've not lived in an environment where you've got a constrained supply of talent, right? It's been like I just go into the market, I get what I want. It's a very different environment. And so we've got to figure out how to help with that as well and provide better signals to the demand. And it's going to it'll vary from location to location. So but we are fortunate, I believe, that we've got a statewide system in Ivy Tech that should be able to support us in terms of the things that we're trying to do. I guess the other piece to this too is even as we start to evolve into this, how do we make it easy for organizations to engage with us, whatever it is. You know this, the more friction there is in an environment, the harder it is to do. And by the way, I'm not going to sit here and pretend to have all the answers to this, but one, let's go listen. Let's try to understand what the specific issues are. And then there may be an opportunity to say, well, we're doing great. We don't need any help. But there may be opportunities to say, no, this is something we can really build around. One of the things I would like to do, and I don't want to get too long winded, I know I'm being I'd like to build some models. I'd like to, you know, like, if we can find a location that has the right ingredients, how do we help stand that up potentially and really emphasize with them, not that we're spending all our time and energy there, but if we can build a model that others can see, maybe it becomes something that we can bring others to and say, Hey, you might think about doing something like this. So that we're not spreading ourselves like peanut butter and trying to be all things to all people. That's part of what I wanna accomplish on this listening tour as well is, like, who might be right to do some of these things that we might wanna do, and how do we engage them to actually lift it up and maybe use that as an illustration for others throughout the state. Okay. And then I just really had one other question regarding the shift to our existing businesses. So in the economic development world, it's BR and E, it's business retention and expansion for your local. So I've been doing this for a while now, and so we do those listening tours in our county. And time and time again, what we hear is, we need help getting to the next level. Like, we're functioning here, but in order to grow, we need this this cash. And so what's available are just a few grants here and there. I suspect you're going to hear the same thing. But my question more specifically is that shift from new growth opportunities to more of what's happening with our local and existing companies. And I hope that as an agency, we're not going to say, okay, we've really spent 98% of our time pursuing new businesses to come into Indiana, and 2% on BR and E. And now we're going to flip it. Because again, in Delaware County, the largest investment that we had was Canpak into our community, gosh, 4 or 5 years ago now at this point. It was over a $300,000,000 investment into the community with 400 jobs committed. So I just would caution us from going from the 98.2 to now it's 98 here and 2 over here. Again, focusing or just going back to what Representative Lopez said, I'm on the ground, and we can this is the example that I give. Can pack came in, those big organizations don't come into your community every other week. You're lucky to get them once every 10 years, but that one company that came into our community resulted in a $2,000,000 order into a very local small plumbing company for just drains. $2,000,000 for just drains. I mean, that was a huge influx into that small business then, into the community as well. So if I may, I wouldn't think about it, let me maybe try to paraphrase this so much that we are going to flip from 98 to 2 to 2 to 98 in terms of this. One, can we talk to a community and say, you know, are there certain based on the kinds of businesses that you have here, are there businesses that you wanted by name, want us to go out and work to attract and make our Y, Indiana case? Or you may say, I don't really care. As long as they come in here and it's creating jobs, I really don't care. So take let me contrast that with LEAP as an example. We have got this special ground where we've had Eli Lilly, who has made a commitment to be this. We can work thematically with Lilly, as an example, to say, help us understand what other businesses you'd like here, which could be not just other Fortune 500 companies, but could be other biotech companies, things of that nature, or we could just let it whoever comes in the door, we'll just put you in there, right? And then we'll all look back on this a decade from now and say, well, this is just an industry park. I mean, it really doesn't thematically help us attract, you know, those kinds of individuals. So, I would like you to take away, we're not going to stop, you know, doing, you know, economic development from the new. I guess the thing that I would love to see us, and I'm going to work to help shift, because again, you know this landscape. There's a lot of RFPs that's come in the door. I'd like us to try to be much more strategic about we want you to be in Indiana, but you need to help us understand why you want to be in Indiana. Because we do have limited resources, talent being the most vital. And we know they're going to come in, the opportunities are going to come in. I feel strongly we don't have to have a fear of opportunities coming in the door. I think there's a real opportunity for us to put Indiana on the map in a real way to say, look, we want you here for these reasons. And I want it to be a strategic discussion, not necessarily what, what benefits am I giving you from a incentive standpoint, and that's your decision criteria for coming to me. Because it's not very not very strategic, but it will vary region by region. So I for everybody's benefit, my intent is not to stop looking at new, but we haven't been focused on existing. So how do we go do that? But can we get more strategic about who we want here and why? Thank you. Thank you for great presentation. A lot of lot of exciting things in the future. Awesome. Thanks for being here. Thank you so much. I'm looking forward to working with each of you. Okay. Next, we have the Office of Public Safety and Indiana State Police. If they'd come on in, please. Welcome. Glad you're here. Go ahead and introduce yourself, and the floor is yours. Good afternoon, mister chairman and members of the committee. It is a pleasure to be with you here today. My name is Ashley Presner. I'm the Chief of Staff for the Public Safety vertical. Secretary Green wishes that she could be here today. As you might know, she's completing active duty orders. Following the tragic plane collision last night in Washington, D. C, Secretary Green is assisting with emergency response operations. Our thoughts and prayers are with the families involved in the incident and the first responders. Secretary Green currently serves as the Executive Director of the Indiana Department of Homeland Security in addition to her role as the public safety secretary. Her background is in leadership, cybersecurity, and the military. She is a graduate of the United States Air Force Academy and a combat veteran of Operation Iraqi Freedom. She has experience in cybersecurity as the commander of the 100 and 22nd Cyber Operations Flight in Fort Wayne, Indiana. She's also an FAA certified pilot and a former Air Force Special Agent. The 7 agencies in the public safety vertical are the Indiana Department of Homeland Security, the Indiana Department of Corrections, the Indiana Parole Board, the Indiana Law Enforcement Academy, the Integrated Public Safety Commission, the Indiana Criminal Justice Institute and the Indiana Department of Toxicology. The public safety vertical is already beginning to tackle Governor Braun's priorities and looks forward to working with the Governor to successfully accomplish his agenda for a safer Indiana. We are working towards creating the Office of School Safety housed under DHS, improving technology such as adding protective vests and body cameras to keep staff safe and implementing successful staff recruitment initiatives. The vertical has begun streamlining and identifying potential efficiencies in all of our agencies. I would also like to introduce Jonathan Widom from the Department of Homeland Security and Commissioner Lloyd Arnold from the Department of Corrections. They will be speaking more in-depth about their agencies. Before I turn it over to Jonathan, I'm happy to take any questions. Any questions? We're seeing and then Jati? Thank you, Mr. Chairman. Thank you, for being on behalf of, the new secretary, and hopefully, we get to meet her soon. In your statement, you talked about, some of the work that you guys already started when it comes to staffing and recruitments. You mentioned, governor Braun's, orders. One of the couple of things. 1, governor Braun has mentioned, in his releases of press that he's asking all the agencies to do a 5% cut. Is that correct? We are looking into all of our budgets to find efficiencies and see if there's any way that we can streamline or, look at positions or even contracts to see where we could find cost savings for Hoosiers. So your agency as well has been asked to look into those 5% cuts? Okay. This week, governor Braun did an executive order to protect in our Hoosiers with immigration policies. And in his executive order on the 2nd page, line 6, he says here the Indiana National Guard shall cooperate with requests made to the Indiana Department of Homeland Security related to immigration including through the provision of facilities personnel and our resources as requested to the fullest extent permitted by the law. And here he also mentions about law enforcement needs to cooperate, how you guys plan, to, number 1, fund the training cost, 2, staffing increases with this new executive order, and 3, any administrative costs, while also trying to balance about the 5% cut. Do you mind if I respond? Sure. Thank you for the question, representative Andrade. You know, I think, obviously, we as an agency from homeland homeland security perspective support the executive order, as well as all the other executive orders that have been issued. Our role will be largely coordination, similar to what we do for disaster response and recovery operations. We are very good at bringing agencies together, bringing resources together, allocating resources in the most efficient way possible. Our agency, you know, I'll talk a little bit about this here in a minute, with some of my remarks, but we have been very good at adapting over the years. We started in 2,005 as 4 different agencies coming under one roof. And so, you know, priorities change and the threat environment changes. And we, as an agency, have to find efficiencies in order to take on new projects, even in the middle of a budget session, or the middle of a biennium. You know, we may have a budget approved and then there's a new threat to Indiana that we need to be able to quickly adapt to. And so, yes, we're going to look at the 5% reduction because we think we can do that. There may be fleet issues that we can address. There may be contract issues that we can address. You know, we want to be lean, but not at a negative impact to public safety. So I think we obviously have the support of the administration. There's we don't want any impact to the public safety sector, but we know that there are efficiencies and we're going to go after those. And then we'll allocate resources appropriately for these different initiatives that are coming up and part of these executive orders. Sure. So do you currently have the resources to fulfill this executive order? Yeah. From our perspective, we've been asked to help coordinate. We've been asked to help coordinate with the Guard, with all the other state agencies that have been asked to play a role in this. We do that every day. So I think we have the resources right now, and I think that, you know, we're excited at the opportunity to work among the vertical, the other verticals, to find those cost savings. We think there are there's a lot of low hanging fruit right now. But from our agency's perspective, we are completely in sync with these executive orders and we will support them and we have no issues and no concerns that we can do that with existing resources. Thank you. Follow-up. Have you guys started the process already to working with local law enforcement agencies, the county sheriffs, all the pretty much different kind of state law enforcement agencies that we have to start this process. I think we're gonna wait to have them tell us that they need assistance. You know, we we have some communities that I think are in the process right now of going through this, what's commonly referred to as the 287 gs program. If someone comes to us as Indiana Homeland Security or comes to a state agency and says we need assistance with this, we need help figuring this out, then we stand ready to assist those local communities. But so far, we have not had anybody that's come to us and asked for assistance. So no one has. Okay. Has your agency reached out to the other agencies in law enforcement to start this executive order process? To my knowledge, we have we've not taken any any measures to this point. Yeah. I think that, you know, came out Monday. So we're we're ready and stand ready to assist, but, we have not proactively reached out to any law enforcement, local law enforcement agencies. No. Do you foresee, if you guys do, having to get federal dollars coming from the federal to assist the state with those additional burdens of cost? Yeah. I think if there are federal dollars available to assist with the training and the process, then I don't see any reason why we wouldn't want to, utilize those resources. I don't know what that funding mechanism looks like yet, but I do believe that locals, if they decide that they want to be a part of this program, the understanding is that they will take on that cost. They will take on that cost for training and for the implementation of the program. Thank you. One more question. Has ICE at all currently reach out to IDHS to have any conversation about the national, executive orders or the state executive order from the governor? To my knowledge, no one has reached out to our agency directly at this point. Thank you. Thank you, sir. Representative Judy. Just to clarify, the 287 program is part of the 1996 Act, so this is something that local government's already done before in the past. So we're not it's not reinventing the wheel. It's just the process of that relationship going and talking back with ICE and being an asset with ICE in those situations. Correct? Yeah. That's correct. Yeah. This has been in operation, largely in other states, up to up to this point, and I think this is the first time local law enforcement agencies from Indiana have started to utilize this program. I know we saw one from Hamilton County, this week, maybe this past weekend, that they indicated interest in participating. That's correct. Representative O'Grady. Thank you, mister chairman. Following up on the question that representative Schuttig, my colleague, just asked, since this is already implemented and currently implemented already, are we seeing, do we have a history here? In our state where we've have had to deal with, criminals who came here wrongfully entry, do does IDH IDHS has any data that could show that we've been having a problem here in our state? I'm not aware of any data right now, but it's also data that, that our agency has not been collecting. You know, largely up to this point, the immigration enforcement has been from ICE, right, at the federal level. And what we're saying now is we as an agency, as a state agency are going to assist any locals or any other state agencies that want to participate in this process. But no, I'm not aware of any data that exists within our agency to that topic. Thank you. Thanks. Rep. Porter. Thank you, Mr. Chairman. I have a couple of questions regards to public safety. We we build a new prison in Westfield. It started at 400,000,000. Then 18 months later, it went to 1,400,000,000. Where are we with that, facility? Are we go saving money? Hirschman came in I mean, secretary Hirschman came in yesterday talking about it and being efficient. Are we on schedule? Are we gonna save money? What are we gonna do? Yeah. Great question. I'm pleased to say that, you'll have an opportunity to, to ask that of the DOC commissioner here in a couple of minutes, if you don't mind. I was teeing up for the commissioner. Yeah. Good. Okay. That's good. Unless he wants me to answer it, but I I don't think he does. I have no idea. So I did I did I would preface my comment as a as a, public safety question, IDLC. Go ahead. No one gave me a heads up on the questions that were gonna be coming to me. So why don't you just continue on or why don't you get a heads up? Well, yeah. Those those what we call, growing pains. Any other questions? Okay. Why don't you go ahead and continue with your presentation? Yeah. Sure. Sure. Again, I'm I'm Jonathan Wood. I'm I'm, deputy director and chief of staff for Indiana Homeland Security. Pleasure to be with you all today. I see a lot of familiar faces. Thank you for your support of our agency for Homeland Security for Public Safety over the years. We've had some tremendous improvements in public safety and training and equipment just these last few years and it's largely thanks to this body and your colleagues in the general assembly. So, thank you. I'd like to give, if I can, just a quick overview of our agency, how we came about, what we are really focused on right now, and then I'll talk, very briefly about, one of the significant priorities for governor Braun, moving forward with school safety. So, again, our agency, started back in 2005. We were, the, kind of molding together of 4 different state agencies. The Office of the State Building Commissioner, Office of the State Fire Marshall, Public Safety Training Institute, and the State Emergency Management Agency. We're now comprised of 5 lines of business. We have administrative support, the Office of Emergency Management, Office of the State Fire Marshal, Office of the State Building Commissioner, and the Office of Emergency Medical Services. We're responsible for fire and building safety, preparing for and responding to both man made and natural disasters, emergency medical services, statewide fire prevention programs, investigating fires and explosions, and coordinating with state and federal agencies to share information related to cybersecurity and terrorism. One of the big priorities of governor Braun and his administration is the establishment and, standing up of the office of school safety. So we are excited that that proposal is, is part of house bill 1637. It's proposed to be an office within homeland security designed to coordinate all aspects of school safety. That would include physical security of school buildings, best practices for school administrators and school safety plans, the continuation of the school safety specialist academy, which is currently, part of the Department of Education, administration of the Secured School Safety Fund, and, provide legislative recommendations for this body and your colleagues that would enhance school safety. Again, these programs currently exist. They're just in separate agencies. Our goal is to bring them all under one roof, under homeland security. It will be a more streamlined and efficient office of school safety. And I am pleased that, part of our budget, this year, is, includes Governor Brown's agenda item, which is an increase to the secured school safety funds. So that is proposed to go from $25,000,000 a year up to $27,500,000 per year. As far as the next few years go for our agency, I want to give you a little bit of perspective kind of what we're going to focus on. We do want to reduce burdensome regulations, but not at a negative impact to public safety. We want to ensure continuing safety for all Hoosiers. We're going to identify operational efficiencies to further streamline and reduce our agency budget. We want to provide excellent government service to stakeholders, constituents and customers. And, again, we want to establish and support the new office of school safety within the Department of Homeland Security to make sure that our Hoosier school children are safe and remain safe. So a little bit about the agency. I am, again, pleased to be here with you all today and happy to answer any questions you have specific to Homeland Security. And if you've got anything for department of correction, Lloyd is itching to get up here, I can tell. Okay, thank you for your presentation. Representative Andrade. Thank you, Mr. Chairman. And thank you, by the way, you did a great job answering my previous questions. I do want to commend IDHS because through the last, several years, we have been able to, collaborate very well here in our state. You guys do an excellent job when it comes to your response team, working with training with our firefighters, actually coming up to my district several times, to have, collectively, conversations with our first responders on how we could continue to serve them better when it comes to grants. I think it's important that we continue to have those conversations, especially where you just mentioned the school safety grants as we see all these mass shootings throughout the nation and we'll continue to see a high rise in violent crimes within the schools. I hope that we continue, and I know us and the general assembly have done a good job with funding those school safety grants programs. And I hope I know the chairman has that in his budget proposal that we will continue to do so to keep our children safe. Another topic you mentioned was the catastrophes. And unfortunately, our Hoosier state has had several catastrophes even casualties in the last several years. Looking at July of last year, there was 5 tornadoes that hit the southern part of the state known as the remnant of Hurricane Barreley that moved throughout the state and it was a big impact. And I know you guys were responsive right away. Up in Lake County in our area, we had one that hit in Maryville. And I know I called Alisa Schroeder, who's your government liaison for us, and she did a phenomenal job with being very responsive, reaching out to our first responders. So I commend you for that work that you guys are doing with your agency, and I look forward to continuing that collaboration to keep our community safe, our Hoosiers safe, whether it's a catastrophe, whether it's an unforeseeable situation. But I personally am very happy with the work that you guys are doing with those aspects, and I'm sure that we will continue to properly fund you guys. Thank you. Thank you, sir. Representative Mayfield? Thank you, Mr. Chairman, and thank you for your presentation. Over the last couple of years, in your budget, the line items are fairly generically labeled. And over the last couple of years, I was working with your department on addressing a potential shortage of arson investigators and how we were going to try and balance that with locals and if that could work. We didn't reach a conclusion, but one of the proposals was to increase staffing at the state level so that we wouldn't have to have local training. Is that in do you know if that's in your budget as a more granular line item? Yeah. I appreciate that and appreciate your work on that. We do have a lot of local fire investigators who have varying backgrounds and varying levels of authority, whether it's law enforcement authority or not or just to investigate fires. We've been able to, with with your support and, and certainly with the the compensation study for state employees from a few years ago, we've been able to recruit and retain, bet you know, better numbers with our fire investigations team. I think we have 14 on staff right now. I will say that they are extremely busy. They are tasked with some really, really difficult scenes to process and fires that oftentimes involve fatalities and crimes and children. And so, they work very hard, and I think that we've made progress the last few years in being able to attract some very good quality candidates and been able to retain those within the department. But we are being asked to do more by the locals because some of those programs at the local level might be the first to see cuts or they might see the be the first to lose position. So, our numbers are going up for fire investigations. Our team is keeping up, but it does help to have those positions filled and have the ability to retain them. So So a quick follow-up. So you you your numbers are going up. Your calls for them are probably going up. But are you seeing the response time for them going down? To me, 2 hours response time is not a big deal. In these situations, it is a big deal. So are you seeing that window narrow? No. I think, the team is very good at, at helping each other. And so there may be parts of the state that are seeing a, you know, a larger number of of requests from locals, and they have jurisdiction over the entire state. So someone may come from another part of the state to assist if someone else is already on an investigation. But those are questions we ask the locals pretty quickly out of the gate is, you know, do you need us right now? Do you need us tonight? Is this something that we can respond to tomorrow when someone has finished another scene? So operationally, I think we're still being very responsive to the locals. We are, you know, we respond basically whenever they ask us to and with the understanding that if a local fire department or law enforcement agency is coming to us, then they don't have the resource themself. And, one of our former directors used to say, you know, our agency is 911 for 911. So when the local says we don't have this or we can't do this, we're gonna figure out a way to make it work. Yeah. Representative Prescott. Thank you, mister chairman. Thank you for, being here to testify today. Could you educate us a little bit on the Indiana Intelligence Fusion Center and kinda what their task with and, what size that organization is? Yeah. I'll give you a brief overview if that's okay, sir. And then, superintendent Scott back here, probably has a few things to add or clarify or tell me that I was completely wrong about it. So the fusion center actually is housed under the state police. Used to be under Homeland Security, about 10 or so years ago. I think it shifted under state police, but it's largely a law enforcement, group. Local, state, federal partners that are all in the same room looking at intelligence, helping analyze data that's coming in or requests for an investigation, and then helping our partners get that information out. So, it is funded, I think largely through state police, some grant funding, some federal grant funding that we administer through federal DHS. That's an interesting funding model, but it is largely a law enforcement, operation. And, we have a great relationship with Fusion Center. So our emergency operations center, which is kind of on the disaster management side, is right next door. There's a door between the 2, groups. And when we have an event, huge collaboration between the 2. You can walk back and forth. If something comes up on the EOC side of the shop, we take it over to the fusion center, and they help us, kinda run down the, what we need to know. Mhmm. Any other questions from the members? Okay. Well, thank you. Commissioner Arnold, would you like to come up? I have a feeling Representative Porter has a question. We'll let you do your presentation first, first. Thank you. Do you want to start with that question or do you mean to start off? House is House lead. Okay. Well, thank you, Mr. Chairman and members of the committee. It's really kind of exciting and different to be sitting here in a different capacity, a different role. I know many of you already know who I am, but I want to give you a little bit about my background and tell you a little bit about myself or the members that I don't know. But I have a little bit of background of leadership with manufacturing and the military, also with law enforcement. Before joining the executive branch, I was part of the General Assembly about 2012 to 2017. So I admire what you guys are doing especially on this committee. I never saw this committee and or did everyone want to sell this committee. So, yeah, you guys did a lot of work here. I did a brief stint with the Department of Natural Resources, and then I joined the Department of Correction in 2018. I became the Chief Operating Officer of Indiana Correctional Industries, which is also formerly known as Penn Products. And during that time, we had a lot of wins given the incarcerated individuals the skills they needed to be successful upon reentry. We saved the state 1,000 of dollars, taxpayer dollars while we were doing it especially during COVID. We were able to do a lot of great things and we led Indiana Correctional Industries to be number 1 in the nation in 2022. A quick overview of the Department of Correction is, I thought it would be good to share our mission of the Department of Correction. It is to promote public safety by providing meaningful, effective opportunities for successful reentry to the incarcerated individuals in our care. And that truly is very important to everyone on our team. And it really does reflect when you go to our facilities, when you're central office, we really want to do the right things when it comes to taxpayers, but also those we serve in our care. We are comprised of 21 facilities, 10 parole offices statewide, serving approximately 24,000 incarcerated individuals, 7,000 parolees and 5,500 employees. And we are already finding efficiencies among the Department of Correction. We did a quick restructure with our executive team, reducing it by about half of what we had. We have a great Chief of Staff, Jim Basinger, who is here with me. He has 34 years of experience in the Department of Correction. Jim is a respected leader and trusted confidant to many across the department. We also have our Deputy Commissioner of Operations, Julie Stout. She has more than 40 years experience with the agency and 17 years as a ward in Rockville. Her experience and operational expertise has been very meaningful in our mission and moving forward. And then also we have Deputy Commissioner of Administration and Programs, Chris Blesinger. She has 24 years of experience and leadership across various roles and Chris brings a really comprehensive understanding of both policy and people centered solutions that we have. To get a little bit deeper inside the agency is our population grows, our growth is growing and we are up more than about 1500 since 2023. And I would say back in 2023, we're sitting right around 22,918 people incarcerated. As of today, we're at 24,217 people incarcerated. And we also are seeing a larger need for those that have mental health, and addiction recovery services. So we're really working on those things to do a lot better job and help those while they're in our care. Do you want to thank you all for the previous support and funding that we've had because it has really allowed us to implement a lot of changes that has made our workforce safer and it aligns a lot with Governor Braun's public safety priorities. So, we have put our custody staff and protective vest which were actually purchased using federal funding for all of our custody staff, which also save numerous staff from serious injuries and also alliance with Governor Brown's mission to support public safety of our officers. One thing we've done also to help augment that is, we're always looking for ways to save money. And we actually started producing the carriers for the place for the vest inside of our facility at Miami Correctional. And we also added to a tactical line there. So we started to produce our pants for our custody staff. We're also looking to maximize that and go to other agencies. We're already and talks with the Department of Natural Resources to produce their tactical pants that they use. So trying to find ways that we can save across the state but also keep those that are in our care, give them jobs and give them skills they can utilize while they're incarcerated. I know that you heard secretary Hirschman talk about body worn cameras. We have also done that. We have added them to 5 of our maximum security prisons, so far and we plan on rolling those out to the rest of our facilities, this year, but it has really impacted staff and incarcerated population very positively. The purchases was also augmented with federal dollars. So that wasn't all just our end. We did use federal dollars for that. And we feel like that aligns with Governor Braun also when it the support of public safety officers and to promote the accountability on our end. So it really does decrease in severity of staff results, it's more effectively help us respond to grievances and also the accountability for both staff and those who are incarcerated. So we do have some recruit initiatives that have been implemented and are having a steady impact with our custody vacancy rate that had been declining across the agency for several years, but actually is getting better for the changes we've been able to make. So basically, our overall custody rate, our vacancy rate right now is at 13.1% in December, and that was down from April of 2022 at 19%. We do have some agencies, as you can heard some facilities that's really increasing and gotten a lot better for us on the custody side. So at Pendleton Correctional Facility, it was at 23%, but it had a high in 2022 at 48%. The correctional industry facility, it is now at 23%. It had a high in 2022 at 45%. And then the state prison, was at we're at 21% there now. We had 37%, also at one time. Even though those numbers are getting much better, we also have some facilities that may have a lot of manufacturing around them and different things take place. So at Miami Correctional Facility, we're still working to improve that. We had a high of about 59% vacancy rate there in 2022 and we're down to 38% vacancy right now. But a lot of those been is getting together with a lot of the initiatives that we have done together to make sure that we have good staff in those facilities. But we're continuing with the upkeep of the 21 correctional facilities, some of which date back more than a century, and that's also supporting Governor Brown's mission by to keep dangerous criminals off the street. And the Northwest Indiana Correctional Facility is well underway. The foundations are poured. The administration building is up. The first sales are in place. The exterior is working and you can ask more questions about it. But just to answer that question, I would love for all you guys or any of you to come up and see the progress of that. It's amazing if you saw it before we broke ground and put shovels in the ground. It just shows a big old cornfield sitting next to Westville. Tremendously, the amount of work has been done. And yes, we're on time and we're moving forward very well for that. That kind of the fun part, I call it fun part for us, it's good things that are going on, is the reentry is a significant focus on what we do. And it really aligns with Governor Brown's vision to keep community safe by investing in rehabilitation, and just some of our successes that we've had. So we've had a big growth and enhanced collaboration with the industries division that was a part of. And employees incarcerated population prepares them for jobs after release. But we also aligned a lot with private partnerships that helps those incarcerated individuals while they're here, because we will not bring in a private partnership that will not hire these ladies and gentlemen when they get released. So they're giving them great opportunities to get the skills while they're there. Then once they get released, they're hiring them on the spot. So, that's been very helpful for us. We do have a very strong focus on pre release and post release services and reentry preparation to ensure those leaving our facilities are set up for success. We've had a big increase in pre release and post release employment, where our staff work to get people jobs before they are released and with their wages, especially those who have our certifications have grown in their skills while they're incarcerated. And we're also just trying to find ways to actually hire those that are working for us on the inside. We're actually hiring them now also in the Department of Correction once they get released and skills that they could utilize for us inside, working for the department also. Because we can't expect to ask our private partners on the outside to be hiring these guys once they get released if we don't set the example and hire them on the inside or once they get released hiring them for the State of Indiana also. So, that is all I have now. So if you want to take any questions, if anybody has any. Thank you for your presentation. Representative Porter? Thank you, Mr. Chairman. It's good to see you again. So you did touch a little bit on the Westfield Development, Correctional Institute. So, again, are you on budget? How are things going? Is it gonna be on time? Because, you know, over 18 month period, it went from 400, 450,000, a million up to 1.2 1 point well, 1,400,000,000. So I'm just concerned about that. And I I know we we we had a lot of discussion there in budget committee over the last years, and, been up there, did did the tour and everything. So where are we with that? So I am glad that I wasn't involved in all that pre stuff you were talking about, and I'm 13 days, into this role. But I will be happy to tell you, if everything keeps moving on as it is today, it will be on time. It will be on schedule. It should be on budget unless something changes. But as of today, we are moving along and doing very well with that project. Thank you. A couple more questions, mister chairman. Miami facility, how many building how many buildings are vacant up there in Miami? Are they do you have 2 or 3 buildings that are vacant up in Miami? So we do the exact buildings, but we have actually one side because it's a mirror image of Wabash Correctional also. We have two sides of it. So basically, we have one side that is almost completely down. We have, like, 2 housing units that are in it. And I believe we have 3 units that are there or 4. 5 that are completely not being occupied right now. That's why and that's why that staffing rate I was talking about at Miami, when we have a 38% vacancy rate there, it would not be safe to put those incarcerated in our care, in a housing unit or facility where we may only have 1 or 2 correctional officers there, and that's what we're working to get that increase there. Okay. Thank you. My last question, mister chairman, is about the, hep c. We used to have I think it was, if you remember, we were sued for for hep c, in by department of corrections, you know, by in regards to those individuals that had us I think we put, like, $20,000,000, $22,000,000 into that now with this proposed budget. We're down to, like, 10, 10,000,000. Has there been a decrease, or are we just what are we doing in regards to that? Because I hate for us to wind up in litigation again in regards to hep c. So in the time that I've been here, and actually here recently, I've not heard a lot about the hep c. I will look into that and get back to you, representative Porter, though, to find out if there's any issues going on right now. But right now, that's not been brought under my radar. Okay. Alright. Thank you. Thank you very much. Just wanna put that on your radar screen because we were I got it. Sued before and, the numbers that that that you it's just interesting. Thank you. Thank you, Mr. Chairman. Thank you very much. Thank you, Mr. Chairman. Lloyd, thank you for your testimony today. What is the starting wage for an entry level officer for you? So, I have those numbers, but it's right around the $22 mark and that's where we're sitting right now. It has increased tremendously from around 2018, they were just around $16 an hour and then we went up to 18 dollars and now as we're getting closer to the $22. And that's been part that has helped us with the vacancy rates and growing. And even nationally, if I would have came to you all 2 years ago and told you what it was like in other states, everybody was struggling to get the incarcerated population and getting jobs in their facilities. So we really have done much better with that and the pay we have it, we got to continue to move forward with that. Okay, thanks. Any other questions? Representative Klinker. Thank you, representative Stone. Mister chairman, thank you for taking this job. It's very, very exciting, pretty scary also. Do you see young people being interested right now because of the new diploma that we're going to have, the honor seal? There's an opportunity, to be in police work and to get a certification. Do you see that happening with greater numbers coming to ask for positions in your area? Certainly hope so. I don't really know much about that diploma, right now. But anything that we can do to encourage, young men and women to come to the Department of Corrections, especially those that want to go into law enforcement field or work for the Indiana State Police, you know, we would love to have those come in and start their careers with us in the Department of Correction. Was your background police work at all? I'm sorry? Was your background police work? Yes. Yes. So there's a little bit of that. Actually, I started the department of correction. I could've said I started department of correction in 1998. Y'all thought I'd been around forever. But I had an ambition to be a state trooper at one point. So, yes, I was worked for the corrections, and that'd be a good role for them to do that. Thank you. Representative Spalds? Thank you, commissioner Arnold. Great presentation. I won't tell you how excited I was when you got tapped for that position. I think you're an excellent individual. You can do great things at Department of Corrections. Hopefully, you keep them all inside where they're supposed to be and don't leave anybody to go. So do I represent the smalls. So I got a question about exoneration. In the past, the State of Indiana has somebody who's exonerated typically took us to court and would sue us, they'd get hung up in court. Lawyers make a lot of money. Representative Stuart Wald, in particular, and I worked on an exoneration schedule for people that are in for so many years, they would be paid so much on the way out. On the budget, it's a dollar. Last budget, it was a dollar. How do you handle that? What do you think about the change in philosophy? How do we move forward with that? Representative Smalls, I really don't know how do you really even answer that question. I feel like you and I need to have more of a conversation with that. And you can educate me a little bit more on the bill that you and Representative Serval had, if I can answer that better. That's fair enough, thanks. Okay. Representative Valverde. Thank you, Mr. Chairman. Thank you. I, there's about 11,080 people that get released from being incarcerated here in our state. That's just our numbers. Data is missing because a lot of times when they leave, they don't have a physical address, so it's hard to track them down. Can you tell me a little bit about your THP program or do you have anything like that? Can you tell me what the THP Transitional housing program. So we do not, no one does leave our care without having some placement already put in place for them. So we know where they're going, where they're going to be at. So when you're talking about 11,000 or 80, about really our population flips almost every year, about half of it all the time. But we but nobody, will leave our care without having somewhere that they're supposed to be placed at. So you guys have a program already in place to help them out? Yes. K. Thank you. Any other questions from the committee? Thank you for your presentation. Superintendent Scott, you're up. Thank you, chairman. Thank you, committee, for the opportunity here today and for your continued support. I'm Anthony Scott, the new superintendent of the Indiana State Police. I have Kelly Mitchell, my chief financial officer here for the Indiana State Police with me today. I think it's important I know some of you in the room, but not everybody. So, give you a little bit of my background. I grew up in Rushville, Indiana, little small town. Graduated high school there in 1992, went to another little school called Cumberland College in Williamsburg, Kentucky where I played football, graduated with an accounting degree there in May of 96, Started with the Indiana State Police in June of 96, so really the only, only job I've really ever had other than a few jobs in college. Was assigned to the, Versailles State Police Post, in Southeastern Indiana, where I served as a trooper. Did a couple years as an Indiana gaming agent, before becoming a detective. Served about 7 years as a general crimes detective where I worked cases from thefts and burglaries all the way up to rapes and murders, public official investigations, you name it. I did it when I was a detective. Was then promoted to the district investigative commander's position where I, overseen a group of detectives. Pretty much just managed the case management system and managed those cases that I just mentioned. After that, I was promoted to the district commander's position where I overseen all the state police operations at the Versailles district, which are the ten 10 counties in the southeastern corner of the state. I did that for about a year before being appointed to my previous position as, captain, which was the area 4 commander, where I overseen all the state police operations at the Versailles and Sellersburg districts, which is the 15 counties, basically, from Louisville, Columbus, Indiana, all the way down to Louisville, all the way over to the state line. So we have 5 areas of the state. That was my area of operations. In that role, I, not over not only overseeing all the operations, I was in charge of major details like the thunder over Louisville. I worked at the Indianapolis Motor Speedway in charge of all the gates. Some of those those types of things before being appointed to this this position by governor Brown just a couple weeks ago. And in that that short period of time, I've had a lot of firsts, and this being another one. So every day it seems like there's a new first. So in that short short period of time, I put together a team a leadership team, an executive team around me, and, we started with a with a department audit. Started looking for efficiencies, inefficiencies. My predecessor was in the role for 12 years, so over 12 years, a lot of things, no no knocked anybody, but a lot of things become stale. So we're we're looking for those things where maybe we had people doing dual roles. We had a a sworn law enforcement officer doing a job that a civilian's also doing. So what we're trying to do is find those inefficiencies, get those get those troopers that wear this uniform back out into your communities where they can be visible and available to the public. And one of the first things we've done after we've started this audit is we've, we've restructured the department. We went from a staff and command model, to a more traditional organizational structure where we have 3 3 bureaus, the investigations bureau, the enforcement bureau, and then a support services bureau, which is basically everything else that supports the troopers and the detectives in the field. We're doing that to try to have better communication, from top to bottom and have a better idea of chain of command, so everybody has a streamlined chain of command, and to be more efficient. We're we're trying to operate under the principles of being effective and efficient, with a focus on outcomes and accountability, while adhering to our new core values, which are courage, character, and commitment. Those are kind of the things we wanna we wanna hit on and focus on in everything we do. I think it's important for me to, also, like commissioner Arnold did, our new mission statement. The new mission statement of the Indiana State Police is to provide optimal law enforcement services to the citizens of Indiana consistent with the highest traditions of the department. Through our enforcement, investigative, and crime prevention efforts, we will improve the quality of life for all Hoosiers. So that's our new mission statement in 2025 and moving forward. Our current staffing numbers, we currently have 1130 troopers. I think for a reference point, in 2004, we had 1184, so we're kinda on the decline. We're allotted 1253, so we're down a 123 troopers. Of that, 773 of those 1130 are troopers and 357 are ranking officers, meaning corporal and above. So corporal, sergeant, first sergeant, lieutenant, all the way up to the superintendent's position. We have 480 civilians, for a total of 610 employees. We also have 29 motor carrier inspectors. We're allotted 42, so we're just a little short there. And we have 40 Capitol Police officers, and we're allotted 60 there. So we're we're a little short there too, but but doing doing pretty well. We've set some some short and long term goals, and I'm gonna touch on just a couple of those. The first one being, in line with one of governor Braun's initiatives, and that is he wants to prevent the flow of illicit drugs in into the into and out of the state of Indiana, so we're gonna expand our criminal highway interdiction program. We currently have 5 troopers and one supervisor that mainly operate in the central part of the state doing criminal interdiction. Our goal is to expand that to a statewide criminal interdiction program, having officers in the north and south and the central, at the same time partnering with our local and our local police departments, our sheriff's departments, and our federal agencies to make that a really robust program in Indiana. So that's one of our that's one of our short term goals. Another one is to enhance our Internet crimes against children program. If you're not familiar with that, we get, thousands of tips from the National Center For Missing and Exploited Children. Our tips in 2024, topped 20,000 tips. We can't keep up with that, currently with just state police officers doing these cases, so we have affiliates all across the state. We encourage all of the local local police departments and sheriff's departments to become affiliates. We have some training money we can give them that as an incentive to to get on board and help us work some of these cases. And I I I say this a lot. Some of these folks are the worst of the worst. These are contact offenders in our communities. They're producing child pornography. They're sharing it on the Internet. So this is a really, really important thing that that we need to continue and grow. You know, I know it's been said a lot that, like, if we have one of these tips that's unvetted or not investigated, well, that could be one victim that's that's suffering at the hands of a predator that we just can't get to. So it's really important that we we get to these tips and and continue to expand that program. Another one that's fairly new to the department, we brought back a cold case team, focusing on those cases that are old and have not been solved, obviously, with new technologies today, genetic genealogy, all of those new DNA technologies that are available today. We've had some real successes, as most recently in January of this year already. We solved the case from 2011, where an 87 year old lady was was brutally beaten and raped in her house, back in 2011. Current, DNA technology allowed us to solve that. She's a 100 years old today, still alive, so we were able to give her some closure, just a couple weeks ago and the suspect already put took a plea of 40 years. So that's just one example of that genetic genealogy putting to rest one of these really, really significant cases that we really wanted to solve. We had another one just a couple weeks ago, 38 year old, brutal rape and kidnapping in Northern Indiana. Suspect was identified by our DNA unit and genetic genealogy, and we were able to take a suspect into custody there too. So very important very important stuff, that that can it's very expensive, but it's very important. I mean, being able to give that 100 year old lady, it's it's amazing that she's still alive, but giving her justice, you know, 14 years after she was brutalized in her home, is really important to us. So one of our main our main goals, the new administration's goals is to get more troopers back in your communities. I know I noticed it. I'm sure you guys have noticed it 10 years ago. You drive around and see troopers everywhere. You don't see that anymore, and some of that is because we've had to specialize in some areas, which takes troopers away from the field. We're gonna try to, by doing the department audit, find troopers, and we've already found some of these, like in HR, our our criminal justice data division, our logistics area, where we have uniformed officers doing what I would call civilian jobs. So we're gonna try to get those uniformed officers back in the field where they can be available to your communities and and help fight crime in the cities and counties that we live in. Another thing that I think is important to mention, we are the only statewide laboratory services. Obviously, there's Marion County has crime lab also, but we're the only only agency that offers statewide laboratory services. And I think it's important to note, 86% of the caseload at our laboratory is for outside agencies. So state police cases represent 14% of our workload, 86% of that is for other agencies across the state. Another thing that's coming up that's that's a really expensive cost of doing business is our Axon Axon contract, and I know Lisa Hirschman is trying to streamline, You know, DOC has Axon contracts. We have Axon contracts. I think excise has Axon contracts. So today, we've got 7,000,000 pieces of evidence since 2021. I mean, that's how much video and photographs and stuff we we collect, and our our cost is expected to double in in in the next year for Axon to keep that contract. But I think Lisa Hirschman's gonna do secretary Hirschman's gonna do some research there and maybe streamline the way we do those contracts when we're using multiple agencies are using the same equipment. I think it's important to mention our aviation. We have 3 helicopters and 2 fixed wing aircraft. We're the only aviation statewide aviation assets. I think Lake County has one helicopter, but there's a missing autistic child or something. We're we're the only game in town. So that's something we have to continue if if those services if this if the citizens wanna continue those those services. So, I'll be glad to take questions, at this point. Like I said, I'm I'm 13, 14 days in. Lots of firsts, so these are gonna be my first questions. So Well, thank you for your presentation, sir, and for your service. Any questions? Representative Andretti. Since I've been asking other questions, I might as well keep going, right? Recruitment and retention is a big issue that we're facing throughout the state locally as well as law enforcement agencies. I know with this new vertical plan, can you elaborate a little bit more how aggressive you guys are going to go when it comes to recruitment and retainment? 2 years ago in the biannual budget, we were able to give salary increase to ISP and that was much needed. And so based on just numbers on a national level, we are below the national average when it comes to paying our state police compares to the numbers that we see out there. Yeah. So I'll address your first part. Recruit recruiting and retention. Obviously, recruiting is a problem for the Indiana State Police, but it's a problem for all of law enforcement all across the country. So couple things we're gonna do, we're gonna we're gonna have a a focused recruiting effort, and and we're gonna focus on athletes at our colleges and universities. Because what we found is those athletes have the attributes that we're looking for. You know, they're dedicated to a team. They're disciplined. They have to multitask. They they just have all the attributes, that we're looking for, so so we're gonna really try that to see if that works. Another thing we're gonna probably do is we've been trying to have multiple police state police academies in in 1 year. What we found is we're getting 20 to 30 recruits each time that are graduating, and we're spending a lot of effort and and and assets on having multiple academies. We think we can have one academy and try to have it a bigger class. So you get 50 instead of 2020 and you get 40. If we could just have one big class of 50, that's one thing we think we can be more efficient on. The the second part of your question about pay, obviously, we are very grateful of the of the pay pay increase we got in 2023. It was a 3 year plan, so we will our pensions are based on a high three, so we will see the the full extent of that in July of 2026. So it was it was probably more of a retention than a recruiting, because what happened is when we got that raise, the sheriff's departments and the city departments went to their local boards, and they asked for a raise, and they got an increase too, which is good. It was good for them too, But it was more of a retention raise for us. It allowed us to keep our folks that were maybe ready to retire while they decided to stay another 3 years. So, again, recruiting is a is a problem all across the country, but we're we're gonna really try to tackle it with this focus on on athletes at colleges and universities and our military. We wanna focus on the military too. A lot of good recruits out of the military, so we're gonna work with the, adjutant general and try to find that group of of military, personnel that maybe wanna be in law enforcement when they get done with their military service. Well, thank you, for sharing those, aggressive measurements so we could continue to ensure that our communities are safe throughout the whole state. I asked this question to, Secretary Hirschman. Last year, ISP had a pretty big fleet problem when it came to the Durango's and the mechanical failures. Are you still seeing those, issues, or have those been addressed? So it's funny you asked because I just had a I just had a long conversation with, Stellantis in the last couple days because we are in the process of making a purchase of God's Durango's right now. It's my understanding that that problem has been fixed. The manufacturing problem has been fixed. And for us, personally, the department, we had a 100,000 mile warranty with our vehicles, so we didn't lose any money per se. We lost downtime when our vehicles were down, but they covered all of the costs to fix our problems. So I know that wasn't the case with all the local agencies that they didn't have the same package that we had because we buy in volume. So we it's my understanding that those smaller agencies didn't get reimbursed like we did, did get those fixes paid for like we did. Thank you. And I will thank you for answering that, and I'll finish up that you mentioned the crime lab, and I had the opportunity last year to, be attending with governor Holcomb and some of the legislative body for the ribbon cutting ceremony. And amazing work with the new crime lab up in the low post, and I know that several of our other agencies use that crime lab for, as you mentioned, extensive work to help them out solving crime. So, I I think that comes to good use. I know there's several more that might be implemented throughout the state in the future. So we're we're we're currently working on a new lab in in Evansville. We have new at Fort Wayne and Lowell. So and then we have the Indianapolis Regional Laboratory here. Great. Thank you. Thank you. Representative Lopez. Thank you, mister chairman. That was actually gonna be my question. So I know we invested in Lowell, Evansville, Fort Wayne. What's the schedule for Indianapolis? And do you I mean, you may not have a sense of this yet, but as it it might be helpful to understand when what the maintenance on that looks like, when we have to make upgrades in Indianapolis, and do we need to get ahead of that? I'm gonna defer I mean, I was just at the Indianapolis regional lab. It's it's a fairly state of the art, facility. I don't see that being in the very near future. Obviously, by opening these other regional labs, that's gonna take some of the pressure off that Indianapolis lab too in their casework. So to answer your question, I really don't know what the time frame would be for the for the, I guess, the renovation of the Indianapolis regional lab, but I don't see it in the very near future. Perfect. Thanks. Thank you. Any other questions from members? Well, thank you for your presentation, all of you. And, again, thank you all for your service to our state. Thank you. Thank you. Next up, we've got the office of energy and natural resources. Come on in when you're ready. If it was someone else, I would. But it was just like, oh, I'm just so mad. This is my guy. I can use him. But I have more as the husband. Ma'am, are you ready? The floor is yours. Yes, sir. Okay. Now better? Alright. Good afternoon. Thank you very much. My name is Susie Javoroski. I'm the secretary of energy and natural resources for, Governor Braun, and it's an honor to be here. Thank you very much, Chairman and members of the Ways and Means Committee. It's an honor for me to come and address you, and thank you for your time. I'll try to go as quickly as possible. I know we're late in the afternoon today and I really appreciate all that you guys have been working for here recently and, our team of, Cabinet appointees really appreciate your time and thoroughness. So, I will go ahead and start. First, I want to introduce, someone who's really important on my team, my Chief of Staff Parvane Stover is right behind me. I think a lot of people in this building know Parvane. Parvaneh was the chief of staff at the Indiana Department of Environmental Management and has, fortunately for me, agreed to come on my team. And so, please, if there's ever anything you need from any of our parts of the vertical, don't hesitate to contact Parvane or myself directly. I invite you to please do that. I was asked to give a little bit of background about myself and introduce myself to you. So, I'll go ahead and do that. I spent about 6 years working for a company in Southwest Indiana called Hallador Energy. They operate and develop coal mines and also some natural gas. They've evolved to become an independent power producer. But after leaving, the coal company, I ran the Trump campaign for the primary in 2016 and then the Trump Pence campaign for the general election for the state of Indiana was state director for the campaign. After that, I had the opportunity to apply to work for the administration. And at that time, the only I didn't really wanna leave Indiana. My husband's job moved us around a lot. We ended up coming to Indiana, and it's been my favorite place to live. So I did not wanna move to DC, but I was intrigued by the opportunity to work for the administration, and you could put down 3 places to choose from to work. And a lot of my colleagues were wanting to go to the State Department or the White House or the, National Security Agency, things like that. The only place I wanted to go is the Department of Energy because I felt like our energy policy could be recalibrated a little bit for what our needs were. And so I was lucky enough to become a presidential appointee at the Department of Energy, had the opportunity to be briefed in every department in that large 4,000 person complex, the science office, the office of renewable energy and, electricity, the office of the grid, the fossil, and so on. So I really got to see and learn a lot there. I became chief of staff in the office of nuclear energy. And just before the end of the administration, I had the opportunity to go to the International Atomic Energy Agency in Vienna, Austria and be an advisor to the director general there. The mission of the IAEA is to provide safeguard and security for all the nuclear power plants all around the world. And so, in the midst of COVID, I went over to Vienna, Austria and spent the better part of a year there working at the IAEA. The State Department then said, thank you very much for your service. We'd like to send one of the Biden people out there, and so please come home. I was happy to come back to Indiana at that time. And when I did, I started doing consulting again, which had been my work before working for Halidor. So I had all kinds of clients in the energy industry. My main client was a nuclear reactor designer that was developing small modular reactors that you hear so much about, so I learned a lot about that. My territory was the middle part of the country and Africa, which sounds Really crazy because what do the 2 have in common? I happen to have a lot of contacts on the continent of Africa that were interested in developing nuclear energy when I was at DOE and at the IAEA. So that's how that kinda came together. I also had a client that was developing solar manufacturing, so I learned the solar industry a lot. I had clients several clients that wanted to connect to the US energy grid, for data centers and Bitcoin mining, and so I learned a lot about that and an EV battery recycler. So a lot of different facets of the energy industry. Then I had the opportunity to work for the last year at the Mid Continent independent system operator up the road in Carmel. It's called MISO. I'm sure you've heard a lot about it. And so I thought I knew a lot about the electric energy industry until I got to MISO and realized there was a whole other part of the industry to learn. So it's been a year at MISO, and then the governor called and asked me about this position. I did not want to leave MISO, it's a wonderful place to work, but I was so thrilled by the opportunity to come and serve Hoosiers, and hopefully share some of the journey I've been on and working in all different parts of energy in this position. So that's a little bit about my background. I do have to say to you, I commend you for what you do and what you do to get here because I in 2021 2021, I ran for state rep, and I lost in the primary by 6 votes, and that was the hardest job I ever had, was running for office what you guys do, year in year out. So you have my respect for that. And then the job that you do when you actually get here is really impressive also. So that's a little bit of my background. The vertical that I work in, has 8 different agencies. There's energy, so there's the energy side of the vertical, and then there's the natural resources side of the vertical. The energy side of the vertical includes the Office of Energy Development, the IURC and the Office of the Utility Consumer Counselor. The Department of the Natural Resources side includes the Department of Natural Resources and it also includes the Indiana Department of Environmental Management. And then there are some what I'd say kind of outlier agency areas, but they really do make sense with this vertical because some of them are land based agencies that acts like a state park with maintenance and operation, and those include the White River State Park, the Indiana State Museum with the historic landmarks and the War Memorial. And then there are 2 agency areas that have environmental impacts, and those are the Board of Animal Health, as well as the Office of the State Chemist and the Seed Commissioner. So those are all the areas that work in this vertical. In terms of Governor Brown's freedom and opportunity agenda, our goals are to provide reliable and affordable electricity and heat for all Hoosiers and also to protect and make sure there's optimal efficiency for our natural resources. In terms of the electricity, affordable and reliable electricity side of the house, we will our strategy is to embrace an all of the above energy strategy. And over the course of my career, there have been times where people had said, oh, she worked in the coal industry, how can she possibly be an advocate for nuclear? If anybody who knows me knows that I did both and I was passionate about both and I'm truly passionate about the opportunity for Indiana to benefit from all of the above energy policy. I think that the most efficient way to take advantage of the opportunities that we have for economic development right now are to truly deploy all of the above. If we have a large heavy industry that uses a lot of electricity, the ideal scenario would be to have them come in, get as much electricity as they need from the grid that's available, build solar and battery perhaps to get them up and running operational, If there's an opportunity to build a gas line or perhaps geothermal, have that in place. And if you're a really heavy user and you intend to be there for a long time, put in place the ability to deploy advanced nuclear small modular reactors. To me, building clean energy industrial hubs like that in Indiana will have benefits for Hoosiers for generations. So that's an example of that all of the above energy policy. Then we are mandated and asked to develop a culture of efficiency and cutting red tape and so that's a part of our agenda and providing affordable and reliable electricity. And then I mentioned nuclear as part of that scenario of all of the above, It takes a lot to be prepared to deploy nuclear, especially in a country that hasn't really deployed nuclear for about 40 years. We saw how hard that was at the Vogtle plant in Georgia and we are really moving forward. I have to say we're making a lot of progress in the state of Indiana to create a runway that can, be accommodating to developing that large scale 20 fourseven, 3 65 available, energy source. On the statewide energy and water side of the natural resources side, we're charged with developing a statewide energy and water plan. We are very blessed to have abundance of water in this state, but our challenge, like a lot of other places, is that we have to move that water around and so our team will be working on an energy and water plan for that. Also, the governor's asked us to cut our cost by 5% across the board, That's all those agencies I mentioned except for the IURC and the Office of the Utility Consumer Counselor. Each of those have their own fee based structure that funds them and so those are not subject to the 5% cut. Is there a question? Sorry. The way we plan to the way that we plan to get those that 5% cut in place is to evaluate and streamline contracts. You probably have heard that from some of the other secretaries working with OMB, DNR and IDIM, buy a lot of the same kinds of equipment as the state police do and, the Office of Management and Budget are working hard for us to be able to consolidate those kinds of contracts. We're working with them on that. We're also working on process improvement and every time there'll be any kind of natural attrition and positions will be very much scrutinizing, do we replace that, can we split up that function for other places and with the purpose of also do no harm, ensure that we can still serve the citizens with our mission, but really to evaluate do we need all those positions when people do leave. Some notable items that you may notice on our budget is that there's $27,700,000 for the DNR, still cleaning up from the tornado at McCormick State Park, so just wanted to mention that and there's $7,000,000 for a system integration platform for a technology platform in IDEM. That platform IDEM had the opportunity to try to build a system where all of their data can be housed and used efficiently, instead of going out and spending the money to buy a brand new one. They have one that's already in house and just needs to be further deployed, and so, they have $7,000,000 there to do that, and we think that's the right thing to do. So, that's just an overview that I'm here to provide. I have 2 of our fiscal staff members here with me today. Hilary Alderrette is the Chief Financial Officer, now transitioning to become the Chief of Staff at IDAM, And then you'll hear from Mike Smith from DNR. Hillary? Well, welcome. Thank you. Thank you. Good afternoon, Chairman, members of the committee. My name is Hilary Alderett, Chief of Staff and Chief Financial Officer for Idom. Idom's mission is to implement federal and state regulations to protect human health and the environment while allowing the environmentally sound operations of industrial, agricultural, commercial, and government activities vital to a prosperous economy. Our agency is divided into 6 offices, the Office of Air Quality, Water Quality, Land Quality, the Office of Program Support, the Office of Legal Counsel, and the Office of Chief of Staff. In the Air, Land, and Water Offices, core duties include reviewing and issuing permits, inspection and compliance activities, enforcement efforts, collecting samples for testing, and managing projects and overseeing cleanup of contaminated sites. The other offices manage support functions such as compliance and technical assistance, grants administration, legal counsel, and agency operations. IDEM operates on a $147,000,000 annual budget. Over 58% of our budget comes from dedicated revenue sources such as annual fees and permits. Our general fund is the 2nd largest funding source comprising 28% of our total budget. Lastly, federal funding accounts for $22,100,000 or 12% of our total operating budget. For the fiscal 20 six-twenty seven biennial budget, item is especially asking for a $7,000,000 capital change package for the second phase of her agency modernization project. This project is expected to take 8 to 10 years at an estimated total cost of 30,000,000 dollars IDEM currently utilizes this system, as the secretary mentioned. However, it's not been fully implemented throughout the agency. This modernization project involves consolidating 100 of antiquated systems and applications across the agency into 1 enterprise system. The goal of this project is to enhance into 1 enterprise system. The goal of this project is to enhance data collection and reporting while minimizing duplicative data entry for our staff. This will then allow our staff to devote more time to the core functions of our agency, permitting, compliance and enforcement, which enables us to provide better customer compliance, and enforcement, which enables us to provide better customer service to the public and our regulated facilities. Thank you again for your time. Happy to take any questions. Thank you. You did a great job. Thank you. And next is Mike Smith from DNR. Good afternoon. Thank you. I'm Mike Smith, Deputy Director and Chief Financial Officer for DNR and I would like to share with you an overview of the Department of Natural Resources. DNR's mission is to protect, enhance, preserve and wisely use our state's natural, cultural and recreational resources. The department organizes this mission around 3 bureaus, land holdings, regulatory, and administrative. Each of these bureaus comprises of DNR divisions that work hard daily to provide high quality services to all Hoosiers. Most folks have heard of state parks, but our landholding divisions go beyond parks to include state forests, fish and wildlife areas, nature preserves and land acquisition. With our regulatory team, DNR oversees reclamation, oil and gas, water, entomology and plant plantology and historic preservation and archaeology. And lastly, DNR's administrative team oversees purchasing, finance, asset management and human resources. Across Indiana, DNR oversees more than 100 properties, all public lands and all welcoming for Hoosiers and visitors alike to get out and explore. To power our operations, we have a current full time headcount of 1300 employees. And during the busiest part of our outdoor recreation season running April through October, our full time staff is complemented by more than 1200 intermittent employees who maintain the properties, serve as lifeguards, gate attendants and general laborers. We couldn't operate without this element of our DNR workforce. Our state parks alone see millions of annual visitors and collect $44,000,000 in revenue from park visitors, which supports over 90% of its operation. Our Division of Fish and Wildlife sells over 800,000 licenses annually and collects over $25,000,000 in revenue, which also supports its operating budget. At DNR, we've been extremely thankful for the immense support we've received from the General Assembly in recent years to further our mission and help more Hoosiers get out and enjoy nature. That includes historic trail funding that's already put 112 new miles of trail on the ground in communities statewide, has 60 trail miles currently under construction and many, many more miles still to come. It's powered us to plant 1,000,000 trees across the state in less than 5 years, a milestone that generations of future users will appreciate. It's allowed us to make historic improvements and investments in deferred maintenance, including a complete renovation of Spring Mill Inn, room renovations at A. Martin Lodge in Brown County, new campground comfort stations, playground updates, building repairs and 114 vault toilets. I have actually witnessed a vault toilet be installed and that's quite a unique experience. It's allowed us to permanently protect thousands of acres of conservation property across Indiana. And it's powering the construction currently underway on the new Lodge at Potato Creek, which is a few miles south of South Bend. It is the 1st state park lodge to be built since 1939 and will consist of 120 rooms, a full service dining room that seats 150 guests, a conference center that will accommodate 3 50 people, the anticipated opening is 2027. As the secretary mentioned, DNR is thrilled to see several important capital projects included in the governor's budget. Concurrently, the 5% reduction of general fund operating dollars in the governor's budget represents an approximate $3,500,000 decrease annually for DNR. As we look ahead at the remainder of fiscal year 2025 and beyond, DNR is currently facing a budget deficit of approximately $15,000,000 Following the statewide compensation study in the fall of 'twenty 2, base wages and pay scales across the department increased substantially. At that time, the headcount across the department was down following the pandemic and the increase in base wages of full time employees for the department was $8,500,000 The compensation study achieved its goal in helping DNR recruit and retain high quality staff and fill more of our vacant open positions. With more competitive wages, we've also been able to fill 120 additional positions with a total cost of $10,000,000 DNR has reduced its headcount by 25 employees in the last 4 months through attrition, And we are in the process of identifying cost saving measures and other efficiencies department wide. Thank you. Thank you. Any questions? I know well, representative Porter, I'm sorry. I I missed you, sir. Go ahead. You go. It's chairman. You go first. Okay? I'm I'm I'm the I'm since I'm the chairman, I gotta so how'd you go first? Thank you. Okay. You win. Thank you. Mr. Secretary, thank you for being here again. Smith, we we budget committee, I see you see you quite frequently. There there are a couple of things that you you did just say. You said in regards to the the the $5,000,000, $3,500,000 that that you would take out of your budget. I'm I'm there are a couple of things that I'm concerned about. You you talked about the trails and and everything, that that the nature trails that we we developed here. And in the bronze budget, those those those trails dollars are not allocated anymore. And I'm very concerned about that because, you know, we have a trail caucus here in the general assembly, because we understand about, how important it is to be outside in during the pandemic. You know, we we can go on and on, but being around, for a while, I understand what happened prior to pandemic to where we are now, and the numbers are now beginning to come back up. And the the construction of new facilities within the parks, all this, and and you do generate dollars from that. So my my question is that, you know, after reviewing the budget from the, from, from, governor Braun, there's not a lot of money allocated for funding in trails. In the previous budget, there were millions under the last administration, to the next level, 12, funding, I think. So what how do we feel about that? I mean, because this is something that that that attracts people to our state, not just Indiana, but from other states as economic development. Yes. First of all, you're exactly correct. Trails is the number one most popular recreational activity that our visitors enjoy. Secondly, I have to admit I've been retired for 3 years and kind of out of the loop on what's going on. So I'm going to have to get back with our trail people to give you a precise update on where we are with all that. Okay. Thank you, sir. Thank you. Thank you. The secretary, I know we also I've I've heard some news that potentially White River State Park may be rolled into another maybe merged with another entity within state government. Is that is that correct? That is a discussion under consideration right now. The thought is that, as with some of the other land based agency areas in our vertical, they may be rolled under Department of Natural Resources, but that is under evaluation right now. We want to be careful and thoughtful about whether or not to do that, specifically looking at White River State Park and their ability to be nimble in contracting. And so, we're working with some attorneys to look at what would happen if it were to move under the Department of Natural Resources. Yeah. And because I think in the governor's proposed budget, I believe it's like $15,000,000 that was allocated for White River State Park. Yes. That is a, extension of the park. That's a new phase that's being developed right now. It's being developed around an area called the pump house, I believe. Yes. The old pump house on Washington Street. And the Elanco site, and so, that's in for 15,000,000 for 26 fiscal, but then it drops down significantly for less than a1000000 in 27 or maybe in 25, 26. Right. 1st year to 2nd. Yeah. That yeah. That's, all this initiative started back in 1979, 1980, in regards to the development of White River State Park. I was a community based organizer on the west side. Oh. And endured all the pain. Well done. Yeah. But it's it was good. Lastly, we have, there's about $1,800,000 appropriated in law enforcement for water, for water conservation. That was eliminated. Do how do you feel about that being eliminated? I don't have an answer on that for you right now. I'd have to look into that more and get back to you, sir. Okay. Alright. With that, mister chairman, ladies and gentlemen, thank you. That's all I have. Thank you. Would you please send any responses to our office and we'll disperse our body? I appreciate that. Yes, sir. Representative Porter was thinking along the same lines, very similar to what I was gonna ask, go ahead and make a statement. I was looking at the next, group to present is health and family services. And my statement, I guess, I consider that, secretary and how those are intertwined. Because as we know, being outdoors and exercising does wonders for both physical and mental health. So you might think about how you intertwine with that because we can do a lot of things to actually, from a strictly a dollar standpoint, let alone what it does for people, cut some costs that we have in the other parts of government. So just thank you. Thank you. Anything else you have to present? Other questions? Representative Klickner? Thank you, mister chairman. You're building new facilities, which which you just mentioned earlier, which is great up in the South Bend area, and you have to cut. Are you able to hire your people to manage and facilitate the goings on of these areas when you have to cut your budget in one way and then try to build in the other? That's always the challenge. You're exactly right. That, we'll certainly work through it and make things better for the Hoosiers that are up there and make sure they're enjoying themselves. Well, we appreciate your working for that, but I I just wondered if there was some way, some method where you could, maybe gain some of those dollars to keep things moving and shaking because you've got new facilities coming. So you're gonna need people. Right. And that takes money. Yes. Right. Thank you. Representative Heaton? Thank you, mister chairman. Thanks, Mike, for your comments about, McCormick Creek. I appreciate that. It's a great park. Yep. And, what the tornado was, I think 2023. Yep. March 31st or whatever, and it was terrible. Complete campground destroyed. Yep. So keep up the good work. We got a lot more to do. I think that represented about $1,000,000 in revenue annually. Yep. Thank you. Thanks. Thank you. Any other questions? Thank you for being here and presenting. Thank you, everyone. We really appreciate the time. Thank you. Next, we have, the Office of Health and Family Services. They would come on in, please. Yes. I would say the brew is Yeah. Welcome. I'll let you introduce yourself. I know you have your part of your team here, and the floor is yours. Thank you, Chairman Thompson and members of the committee for inviting me to testify on behalf of Governor Brown's recommended budget. My name is Gloria Satchev and I'm secretary of Health and Family Services. By way of background, I'm a doctor of pharmacy. I also completed a primary care residency. I practiced for 12 years in primary care physician offices, managing patients that with chronic diseases such as diabetes, high blood pressure and high cholesterol. Thereafter, I founded a consulting company in which I advised numerous healthcare and academic organizations across the country to establish financially sustainable team based models for 6 years. I had the pleasure of being an associate professor in the Department of Pharmacy Practice at Purdue College of Pharmacy for 15 years. A couple of highlights about my time at Purdue was that I was course director and teacher for a health policy applications course for 150 students and chair of admissions from, 2019 to 2020 just for the College of Pharmacy not for all of Purdue. Prior to my current role, I was the immediate for the past 10 years, I was the President and CEO of the Employers Forum of Indiana. The forum is a non profit employer led multi stakeholder healthcare coalition. We are focused on aligning payment with the value of services provided and the three legs of the forum stool our education, research and advocacy. When I first took that role and met with employers in 2015 as a meet and greet, I was asking them what are you doing what's going well in healthcare here in Indiana and what are your pain points? And unanimously all of them said healthcare affordability is their biggest pain point and here we are 10 years later and it's the same answer. The rising cost of healthcare were and remain harmful to the state, businesses and Hoosiers. Perhaps what the Forum is most known for locally and nationally is designing and commissioning the first of its kind hospital price transparency study. It's the first of its kind in the country. The Forum study. You'll hear them in the halls oftentimes referred to as the RAN studies and those are hospital price transparency studies which we designed and commissioned and partnered with RAN Corporation to do. To make it easier for everyone to use the Rand data, we created a free online tool called Sage Transparency. It's a dashboard which brings together, multiple data sources and provides ambulatory surgery center, hospital and on prices, quality and cost data. There's even a medication tab and a legislator tab on SAGE Transparency. So if you're curious how medication prices compare commercial prices as a percent of Medicare across the country, how Indiana compares, you can go there. It was used quite a bit by legislators. So that was a later addition per request of legislators. They were wondering, oh, how do my hospitals in my community stack up to the state averages and national averages? So that's on the dashboard as well. We don't, collect any information from folks. No email addresses or anything. We just feel like price transparency is so important. Everyone should have access to it without anyone tracking you. And so we're really proud of that work that just got launched this past year. And it gets updated every quarter. Next slide, please. Just a little bit about the health and family oh, I have to advance it. Okay. It won't advance itself, right? Here we go. So just a little bit about our vertical. I want to introduce my Chief of Staff, Audrey Arbogast. Audrey? Here she is. So she's really such a tremendous resource to me. She spent 6 years in DC working on healthcare with Governor Braun and others as well. Doctor. Lindsay Weaver, many of you already know her. She's Commissioner of the Department of Health. Mitch Roope, he is Secretary of Health and Family Services. He's been in this role many years ago, so we welcome him back in this role. He's very involved in designing prior Medicaid plans and as we look at our Medicaid budget, we have 100% confidence that he's the right person for the job. Adam Krop is our Director of Child DCS or Department of Child Services and I have brought all of these agency heads here today to present on their budget. They're all experienced. I'm a few weeks on the job and learning the budget, doing the best I can. But it's a complicated space and so I'm really pleased that they're here and we'll be happy to answer any of your budgetary questions. So the goal of health and family services vertical structure that Governor Braun has created is to really streamline efforts and communication. We have seen evidence of this already. We're working across secretaries. Even within our agencies, we're seeing a lot of I don't want to call them duplication of services quite yet, but we have a lot of maternal programs and other types of programs that are in all the agencies. So it it'll be interesting to kind of do a deeper dive into those and examine them. So next slide. I keep doing that. So if we look at HFS, the health and family services biannual budget, we can see here that it represents 31% of the state budget. So we're second after education. AGs and C heads as I said will be going over the budget in detail shortly. Okay. Just a few highlights of the Governor's budget that I wanted to share with you is childcare. We've heard a lot about that in the news and elsewhere. The governor's budget includes $360,000,000 over the biennium to alleviate the funding gap and continue providing access to childcare opportunities for 25,000 children. These funds will empower working parents, those looking for jobs, and those that are continuing their education to remain in the workforce and contribute to their community. Thus Governor Braun's budget continues subsidies that addresses the reduction in federal funding that was originally provided through stimulus infusions during the pandemic. There's a new fund called the Child Care Assistance Fund. The Governor's budget has $4,000,000 for this over the biennium to allow FSSA to establish a local childcare assistance program. This program aims to provide match funding to local communities to assist with childcare. This match funding is provided under this program may be used by localities across our state to address their unique needs and challenges. They're welcome to use these match funds to establish public private partnerships or just whatever the needs are in their community. Skipping to Medicaid, the governor's budget fully funds the Medicaid forecast as presented in December. Specifically, this budget includes $680,000,000 for fiscal year 2026 and approximately $1,000,000,000 for fiscal year 2027. Just would like to share visions that I have for this vertical. One is building health and family services dashboard. So the dashboard that I envision for us is we need we have hundreds of programs in our agencies currently. And I am working with many of you. When you want the data, you need the data quickly. But it's hard to ascertain that. And just like we've built dashboards or I've built dashboards elsewhere, I'd really like the opportunity and have been provided that opportunity by Governor Braun through an executive order to build the HFS dashboard. So we will line up all the programs and all the agencies that I mentioned earlier, including Department of Veterans Affairs and some of our other agencies as well. And then I want to see the budget associated with it. The budget sources, are they state, federal, are they from grants, are they from philanthropy? What are the budget sources? We'll have categories of these programs. Are they maternity programs, substance use disorder programs, programs for the elderly, mental health programs? Because all of these programs are in all of the agencies. And so if you have a filter on them, then you could just easily say let me see all the maternity care programs. Associated with each program will be key performance metrics. These metrics are going to be unique to the program. Some of them have metrics that are assigned, if you will, because they came from a grant or whatnot. So others, hopefully, if they aren't the right metric, we don't want process measures, not like, Oh, I mailed something to somebody. Check. Right? We really need to make sure that Hoosiers outcomes are improving. And that's what we that'll be really important. So we'll have to spend a lot of time on the key performance metrics. I think cataloging all of the programs shouldn't be too difficult. I say that, but I'm new. I don't think it's going to be that difficult. And then also the budget, we're working with the budget office. I spent many hours many, many hours already in the budget office and they're very happy to work with us to build this dashboard. So, I'm happy to take any questions right now and then right after, I'm going to invite Director Adam Krop from DCS to take questions, followed by Doctor. Weaver from Department of Health and Secretary Mitch Roeb from FSSA. Representative Lopez? Thank you, Mr. Chairman. Thank you for being here. Just real quick, the local Child Care Assistance Fund and the grant program that you all are creating, what are the stipulations around that to control for quality, or or is it sort of open, or how does that work? Great question. Great question. I think we were going to have to evaluate that on it's like an application process, so it's match funding. I don't know that we've developed the regulations around that to say, it has to meet this, that, but that's an excellent idea, and we probably should develop a rubric and be transparent with how we're funding those programs. Thanks. Thank you. Further questions? Representative Klinker? Thank you, mister chairman. Do you ever see doctor the day when pre k will be paid throughout the state like other states surrounding us? Pre k? Pre k. I know we are, funding pre k, and it's so important, you know, to make sure that children get off on the right foot. I'm wanting to I'll have our secretary of FSSA further answer that question for you regarding Okay, thank you. Representative Porter. Thank you, Mr. Chairman. It's good to see you again. You were in front of health committee, which I sit on. Yes. Under the bronze budget, apparently, it makes some significant changes to the dollar cuts in the state hospitals. Do you the cuts were pretty significant. Do you know why? I know you've only been around few days or maybe a week or 2, why those cuts are there. Mostly, it's in personnel, but the cuts are more than personnel cuts. So can you explain to me why that is occurring? Not at this time. I will look into it though. I, really am I know we have several state hospitals. I did see some cuts in there. I secretary Robe has been looking into that because that falls within his space. So sorry to kick the question to him, but I will look into that myself. It's okay. He he I I he came through the door. He's here. He heard it. Oh, good. Yeah. He walked back. He he saw me and ran out the door. Oh. But, I was just joking. I was like, I just know. Joking back. Anyway, thank you very much. Yeah. Thank you, representative. Thank you. Further questions? Okay. Okay. Yours next. Thank you very much. Thank you. My LinkedIn. Thanks. Director Croft. Floor is yours, when you're ready. Thank you, Chairman Thompson, members of the committee. It is my honor and privilege to return to state government as the new director of the Department of Child Services. My name is Adam Krupp. I have served in the past few administrations. Joining me today is Sarah Sailors, who is a Chief Deputy Director for the Department of Child Services. Honorably for her, this is 19 years with DCS and very proud for her that she started her career actually with us as a family case manager and has worked her way all the way up to overseeing our child welfare programs. So together we will present DCS and answer any questions that you might have at the end. So in the interest of time, just looking at this slide here, there's mission, vision, operational goals. I think most are familiar with the mission, which is 2 part, right? We respond to allegations of child abuse and neglect. We also process child support payments. At a really high level, that oversimplifies what we do but that is at the core of what DCS is here for. You see our mission statement as well as our vision. So with the vision, you know, if we're truly gonna be bold, I think we could add to that vision and say, in addition, we create an Indiana where DCS no longer needs to exist. And I say that as the director because of, you know, what we are charged to do on a daily basis. In terms of operational goals, I'll keep it brief. There are really three themes up there. And the three words I'll give you are culture because culture drives everything. Right? As purpose driven engaged public servants, 4,000 strong, our culture needs to be rock solid and inspiring so that our staff know what their mission is and follow their purpose. Further down, you will see fiscal discipline. Right? All of our DCS programs and services will be evaluated in the broad administration so that we can make sure we are ensuring fiscal discipline with taxpayer dollars and that all of our programs, all of our services, and all of our expenditures are directly tied to the mission and keeping children safe. Also, I would add public trust. So placing a higher heightened emphasis on ethics and compliance, the Department of Child Services moving forward will work to build, cultivate, and strengthen public trust in our agency. Priorities, you know, I'll be brief. I just want to set the record clear. I know when directors come and go and directors change, potentially priorities change. I wanna be on record as saying the number one priority for the Department of Child Services is child safety and that will not change. And so there are three priorities listed on that slide. Child safety is number 1. In just, you know, two and a half weeks on this job, I have seen daily reminders of why we exist. It's really unfortunate. The things I read, the things I see, what our staff encounter on a daily basis, the emotional, mental, and physical toll that it puts on them, it really requires a servant's heart to do this job. We are proud of that team. And again, I'm reminded every day why we exist as unfortunate as it is. Recent successes and improvements, you see 6 tiles there. I won't go into great detail on these. There's a later slide regarding permanency, some areas where DCS has improved over the last year. Adoption subsidies, for example, that used to be a negotiation process, when a family would adopt and the fee that they would get was tied to, the amount for the child when they were in foster care. That would actually add a couple of months to permanency. And so we've just gone to a 100% of that so that we can eliminate a couple of months on the timeline for children who are in our care. Kinship caregiver support, that's where we have a stipend each month so that we encourage people with kin relationships to the children to open their homes and participate in the programs as well. You see safety, quality and assurance. Child support bureau, I mentioned there, I I think that it's worth highlighting. This past fiscal year, the child support collections hit a record high. And I will say 68%, so be careful about calling that a success, but it is a record high. So the work the DCS is doing to process the money, collect the money, and distribute that child support to families in need and pick custodial parents is trending up. Some key initiatives, I won't go through all of them in the interest of time, but there are a couple that I'd like to highlight. In the last year, we've launched an intensive foster care services program. There was an RFP put out and 13 providers were selected to really focus on our high acuity needs children. And those are children where their condition is severe, potentially dangerous, and they need an extra level of care as we try to place them in the foster care system. So we have a a special program, the intensive foster care services. The goal with that program is one placement and that has been a challenge, right? With high acuity needs children, they're often we see multiple placements. The goal with this program is to get to one placement. With that, we do have the children with high acuity needs project and I wanna highlight that because in line with the Braun administration approach moving forward in this vertical is that this is a multi agency effort. This was launched last year. We have FSSA, Department of Health, DCS, as well as the Department of Corrections all working together when we do have children with high acuity needs that need that team to come together. For example, we have a rapid response team of experts from each agency that huddle together to say here's the situation, multiple diagnoses are in play, what's what's the right outcome for this child in terms of placement, right, to keep them safe? Little bit operational if you look at the child abuse and neglect hotline, somewhat sobering statistics here because and by the way these aren't all phone calls, we do have emails that come in as part of this statistic. You can see the trend 214,079 reports to the child abuse and neglect hotline. Just to put that in perspective, that's 626 a day Monday through Friday. So as we are sitting here presenting, we are taking calls in the child abuse and neglect hotline. So you know when I say daily reminder, I don't need them but they're always there. As we sit in this hearing, there are dozens and dozens of calls to that hotline. You know, I know there are people watching online so I'd be remiss if I didn't provide that number. It is 1-800-800-5556. We can't market that enough. Our hotline is staffed by family case managers who are specially trained to do this. They handle those calls with care and they route them potentially for assessments to make sure whether they're substantiated or unsubstantiated. Last fact I'll give you on this, I think it's relevant. Only 4 states in the country have more reports to the child abuse and neglect hotline than Indiana. You might be able to predict what those states are simply by population. They are California, Texas, Florida, and New York. Indiana is next. K. Illinois is right there with Indiana and then there is a significant drop off to everyone else. K. So we don't have the answers as to why other than abuse and neglect or worse is occurring in our state on a daily basis and we need to we need to be mindful. When we look at total DCS cases, I know that folks often wonder caseload counts and what those look like, so we've prepared a slide that shows you the trend. You can see the number, at the end of 2024 actually started to trend back up, 16,713, and we break that apart and look at, you know, informal adjustments, children in need of services commonly referred to as CHINS, and then collaborative care. We do have voluntary services for children who otherwise age out or are exiting the foster care program up to, you know, from 18 to 21, for example, on a voluntary basis they can remain as part of our services and our programs. So how do we manage caseload compliance? Many of you are familiar. There was an assessment done back in 2018 of DCS very high profile and public that resulted in some statutory caseload requirements, the, often referred to as 12, 12, 12. So each family case manager at DCS will carry a caseload ideally of 12 assessments, 12 in home families, and 13 out of home children as an appropriate caseload for them, right, as we try to balance 2,000 family case members working in all 92 counties to avoid burnout, fatigue, overload, and we monitor it as you see on the slide multiple ways, but this is one. Right? Every county within our 18 regions and each regional supervisor and district manager, this is a daily process to make sure that our family case managers are appropriately staffing these cases so that we can keep kids safe and make sure that they're not in the system longer than they need to be. Children in foster care, generally speaking, you see the trend there. You see the number currently at 9,220 through the end of 2024. I will pair this with the good side of things which is there are more children in foster care, but the average number of days they are spending in the system is going down. Right? So while more children are entering the system, they are not staying in the system as long as they used to. So, you know, we pair that together to show that, you know, we can improve our processes, our programs, the way we coordinate, with our partners and the courts as well and the legislature, of course, to work together to improve the system overall. So we're starting to see some momentum. The numbers are better but we can improve every day and we will always strive to do that as we move forward. Getting close to the budget here, average days to permanency. I do wanna highlight this and I save this slide toward the end before the budget because, you know, the the trend is going down that is still about a year and a half. So to put it into context, the national average throughout the country and all the other states in child welfare is 2 years. It sounds too long and it is. But Indiana is actually doing well when you compare us to other states in terms of the top ten versus other categories historically where we maybe aren't doing so well. Indiana is actually a leader. I think if we together with the legislature, the courts, and DCS working together as we have to for this system, we can keep moving forward and make Indiana the leader in time to permanency in terms of average days in the child welfare system. We're doing really well. We can do better, but we're close in terms of being the national leader in this space. When we look at our expenses in terms of the budget, the appropriations that are made to the Department of Child Services, This chart breaks it down for you because I do know, having been before committees like this in my past, I I served as the Department of Revenue Commissioner for 3 years. You tend to like to break it down in ways of how many dollars are going toward actual services and programs versus administrative costs. And so we've done that for you here. As you can see, typically 84% to 88%, in this case roughly 85% of our entire budget is directly, going toward the services that we provide and the staff that are delivering those services and programs. About 11% administrative expenses, and then support staff and payroll. So where it says field and legal payroll, you know, family case managers, attorneys out in all 92 counties, you know, they are part of the necessary process, with all of the programs and statistics we've shared thus far. So I think 85% or higher of our entire budget being dedicated to services and those delivering those services, we are proud to see and will always work to keep it there or higher. In terms of the proposed budget with Governor Braun's administration, as you can see we have we have 3 columns. We have fiscal year 'twenty 5 which was our current appropriation both in terms of general funds and dedicated funds as well as the federal line item and then you see what has been proposed. I would like to point out, in terms of dedicated funds, that's the Kids First Trust Fund so the license plates that you see from time to time, the $472,000 and change is almost entirely from the license plate fund. A lot of what we do, federal funds are involved, 66 percent for example for the child support program that we offer. And then the general funds in particular, you will see the number 952 and change drops to 937 and change for the next 2 years. That is where the reduction from the Braun administration has been proposed. That is exclusively tied to our operating and administrative account. So there are no cuts to the programs and the services that are being provided on a daily basis by DCS. That drop in $15,000,000 that you see on the top row there that is only for our operating budget, our central office, the technology, the administrative expenses and the things that were on the prior slide. We can break that apart at a really high level the family and children fund. Again, these are the child welfare services, the programs that we offer. It's $513,000,000 and change as part of that. No reduction to that fund. Again that's where the services and the programs come from. So with that, that's the end of our presentation. Sarah and I are willing, ready and able to answer any questions you guys might have. Questions? Mayfield? Thank you, Mr. Chairman. My question is directed at child support system or bureau, CSB. I was clerk from 2,006 to 2012. Even before I took office, there was talk of updating the ISET system. So we're looking at 18, 19 years plus. I was recently made aware that there was an attempt to launch an updated system in some pilot counties with rather disastrous results. So my question, 2 questions, where are we on the development of a replacement system for ISETs? And 2, are you putting forth any efforts to identify, recover the misdirected child support payments that went out during that trial? Period. Yes, ma'am. Thank you. So to address your first, the first part of your question, I am also aware of the concerns from the prosecutors. I actually met last week with the 3 elected prosecutors in the counties that were part of the pilot, not just to introduce myself, but I said I'm here to listen, and I'm gonna take good notes and tell me everything you wanna tell me, and so we had a great conversation about what their experience was like. And I will tell you, on the record, I apologize to them. And I said that, you know, implementation, design, development, training, testing of an enterprise wide IT system, which is something I've done at other agencies in state government, takes a lot of, strategy, care, concern, and collaboration and it seems like some of those boxes weren't checked appropriately in this modernization effort. So I apologize to them for that. I said we will we will make sure we do things the right way moving forward. So specifically, where are we with that in terms of the InVEST project? It has the the pilot was not successful. You're absolutely correct. I don't think that's a secret. So we rolled that back. The transactions that were performed as part of the pilot over that 8 month period in each of those, Vanderburgh, Howard, and Clay Counties, those transactions were put back into ISETs. And so, what we're left with is new administration coming in. I'm new to the role, but I have a lot of experience in these types of projects. We did one at the Department of Revenue very successfully. It was 3 years and $100,000,000 to replace a legacy system many of you probably use for in time to pay taxes. So I'm evaluating it and I think everything's on the table at this point. Evaluating whether or not we have a solution that can move forward or whether or not we need to take a look at what we have and can we use components of it, break it apart, see where the needs are. There is process analysis underway right now to make sure, you know, the old, you know, lessons learned, debrief, business requirements that would go into a system that the prosecutors need at their local offices. That work is underway right now. So when that work is complete, my team, I will personally invest in sitting down and looking at that and evaluating it and charting a path forward for this project. Absolutely. Because it's not just the efficiency of the government office handling it. It's the end consumer is the custodial parent who needs to get their payments. So thank you for thank you for your commitment to that. Absolutely. I am in a situation like that myself personally, so I I do understand the importance of making sure those payments get to the custodial parent. We have met with our team to say where what data do we have? What does that data look like? We need to preserve it. Right? Because the data that was collected during the pilot didn't just go away. It's preserved. There's pilot didn't just go away, it's preserved. There's, you know, a record of it. So if there are questions, if there are concerns, we are on top of it. I I listen to the prosecutors very carefully and expressed to them my level of empathy for the fact that their staff was receiving calls, they were receiving complaints on a daily basis because, you know, if a payment is made in the eyes of a non custodial parent, but the custodial parent didn't receive it. You know, all that matters is the fact that the custodial parent didn't receive it. And so then it's the prosecutor staff that's taking those calls. And so, heard them out, empathize with them and and we are all over this. It is one of my absolute top priorities on the administrative side internally, operationally. We're we're gonna get that situation assessed and chart a path forward. Absolutely. Thank you for the question. Rosita Klinker. Thank you, mister chairman. Thank you so much for what you do. Yes, ma'am. Let me ask you. Are you fearful because of federal funding being cut right now? Are you fearful that that will not be there in, our 26, 27, and maybe even 25? Because we hear that there are many federal cuts coming. Yes. So we evaluated that immediately. We took a look at how that would impact us especially, for example, we've been talking about the child support bureau 66% funding, from the federal level for that. It told everybody, stay calm. Let's see what happens. We know sometimes there's a 24 hour period where you let the dust settle and I think it was 24 hours when an announcement of rescinding that, was published. And so we will wait and see, act accordingly, business as usual until we get clear, direction the other way. Obviously, that would be a concern because of that number. We are always looking for ways to continue finding federal funding, to, you know, alleviate some of the pressure on the general fund appropriation. Ask the question. Absolutely. And so, you know, as I was coming into this role, one of the first questions I had was, you know, I see a number like that. Can it go higher? Right? Are there opportunities where we could seek more federal funding? And I know Sarah and the team have been exploring that not since I got here 3 weeks ago but over the better part of, you know, her tenure. There's always, let's see what's out there to put less stress on our general fund. Representative Porter. Thank you, Mr. Chairman, members of the committee. Just one quick question, and you looked at your numbers that you were saying, they were trending in more positive ways regardless of the vision of DCS. I've heard more numerous occasion of our children sometimes having to stay in the offices of DCS offices. Is that still occurring? Are they still sleeping there and, staying overnight? I appreciate the question and the answer is yes. I'll be very direct with you. Here's here's the I don't wanna say good news, but here's the more positive angle to some of the the articles that you read and I read those too before I got this job. Currently, Sarah and I, you know, we looked at that. Currently, today, there are 3 children, 17 years old who are, you know, have been in a DCS office for more than 23 hours. That's how we measure that, right, 24 hour period. I do wanna be clear because, you know, over the over the fall, I wasn't in this role but I read some of those articles as well and it's very troubled. Frankly, you know, to be candid, it's one of the one of the things that drove me to feel called and compelled to serve in this role. I was bothered by it. But I will tell you I have since learned a lot and I've dug in. It is not uncommon. It is not unique to Indiana. Every state has this situation because of the process and the system in place. So the children that end up in a DCS office, high acuity needs, multiple placements, and in this in the case of the 3 with us now are placement disruptions. And so what I mean is we will place a child in foster care. We might even place a high acuity needs child in a residential treatment facility. Right? You've probably heard of some of those where, you know, a severely, behavioral, emotionally, challenged with mental health issues, threats of physical violence, they go to residential treatment facilities, on a regular basis. The part of that why I explained that is because residential facilities, if a child is highly disruptive or combative, they will send those children back to DCS. So at that point, DCS has to then rally together to say now what? And again, that kinda goes back to the intensive foster care and the high acuity needs projects that we launched as initiatives where those rapid response teams, multi agency efforts with multiple diagnoses involved. We'll pay special close attention to a high acuity needs child that's been sent back to us from residential because, you know, and Sarah, please correct me if I'm wrong. I don't wanna speak out of turn since I've been here about 12 days. The residential treatment facilities are, you know, those are meant to be the most secure, safe facilities for those high acuity needs children. So you can imagine then when when they send them back to DCS, the question becomes what now. And so we are left with the option of let's go to the local office and figure it out. Not to go on a little bit too long about this but I will tell you just as a matter of protocol because I want to complete the picture here. We always have 2 staff members on-site. There is beds, right? These children are not just sleeping on the floor. They have a place to sleep when they do end up overnight in our office. We have 2 staff members, full time, round the clock. They are not allowed to be asleep when a children is in our care in the office, so there's always someone awake. And that we do have measures in place for hygiene, medication, showers if it's a facility nearby because as you can imagine not all of these 94 offices are equipped with showers. So the stories are inflammatory and they they draw emotions out and I was on the you know, that's how I felt. There is always more to the story. Just yesterday in fact, and Sarah sent it to me and I'm glad she did. Just yesterday, national news outlet, released the the same story about Kentucky and talked about Georgia. They have kids sleeping in DCS offices, and it was this big headline. The kids in in other states are 1, 2, 3 years old and babies. We do not have any. Right? I said the 3 that we have are 17 years old, and no personal details, of course. We would never disclose location, but just to close this out, in one situation of our 3, the individual refuses to go anywhere else because that individual is about to turn 18 in a matter of days or weeks. And so staying in the DCS office is where that person would rather be than go back into the foster care program. So I know I said a lot. I I hope I answered your questions and concerns, but the process and the system is very complex, and these are our most troubled high acuity needs children that often get rejected from even residential treatment facilities that come back to our care. And we do the best we can with our our team, like I said, working around the clock. And I I think they've got one of the hardest, if not the hardest, jobs in state government. Thank you. Thank you. Other questions? Representative Lopez. Thank you, mister chairman. Thank you for taking this on. This is the the the most taxing job in state government. So I appreciate it. How so I'm trying to draw back, and I was looking for some of the data because I didn't remember. At one point, we were 3 to 1 almost in out of home care, which I know is a massive driver of costs. What's compared to other states, what's where are we at now? Do we have a sense of that? I I pulled the slide up here if you wanna just as a reference point. So I see the 6 is that the 16,000? Oh, you want the total cases? Oh, yes. So we have 9,220 children in out of home care. Receiving out of and how do we compare against other states now? Or the national average? Yeah. I don't have that as of now. I think that we have been trending up the last couple of months with kids in care, and so I'm not sure where we stand compared to the national average with that in the last year if that trend is the same, but we have been trending up slightly. I will say though our utilization of relative care has also been trending up. So we're currently at 54.9% of our children that are in out of home care are actually with relatives. Okay. Could could you maybe get us a breakdown? I'd like to see that because there again, and I don't know if this was 18 or whatever, but we were like a the national average is like 5a half per 1,000, and we were at 18 per 1,000. Yeah. Yes. I can get through that. Yeah. Mhmm. Thank you. Yep. Yeah. Sorry. Send send to the to the committee, and then it'll be disseminated. Thanks. Thank you. Over there, Judy. Thank you, mister chairman. Thank you for your testimony. I don't we're pretty short on time. Could you take a look at House Bill 1671? And I would just like to discuss that with you maybe next week or the next couple of weeks concerning those high acuity residential facilities? Yes, sir. Okay. Thank you. Other questions? Representative Burway. Thank you. Mr. Chairman, I appreciate it. Just really quickly, so I appreciate that you're looking for any kind of waste. I'm always appreciative of that. I hate duplicative efforts, and I hate waste anywhere we can cut them. I'm all for that. But that's a pretty significant cut, and I won't call any other agencies out. But if some other agencies were sitting before us and offering to make that kind of a cut, I think we would be going, yes. But in this particular area, I'm not that crazy about this kind of a cut. These are human beings, and I would say the same thing. I don't know if the ARC is here. Those those individuals are the most vulnerable, the elderly that need our help from the government. Those are the most critical needs of human beings. Another agency had sat in that spot just a few hours ago and said, our people are our most important product in the state of Indiana. And so, So you're you're referring to employees as opposed to children and families, right, with the the cut? Your concern is our staff? Well, sure. Because in your business, that is your expense, is your is the human beings on the front lines. That is 100% it. With everybody you cut, in my opinion, that's that many fewer kids that are going to get serviced. But I'm wondering specifically with the F and C Fund and Chen's as well, because I don't think we're I again, I saw the trends. I was a little surprised to see that 2020 was lower you have to go back. 2020 was lower than even last year, given the the majority of child abuse cases will come from schools, and it was COVID, so we weren't in schools. So I was a little surprised to see that dip there. I don't think that we're living in a world where we're going to see your agency, unfortunately, ever go out of business. I would love I would love I don't either. That's why sometimes a vision is meant to be something that you aspire to, but will never achieve. Yeah. And so I agree with you. I I wanna address your your point though about the cuts, because it's not on the slide in terms of the general fund, right, 937,000,000 I did share specifically that 513,000,000 or so for the family and children fund wouldn't see a cut. The number specifically for that operating fund is $286,000,000. Mhmm. So I do believe with fiscal discipline, we can find 15,000,000 out of 286,000,000 for things like every state agency has technology vendors, we have software applications, we have numerous contracts. Not to be specific about DCS, I've I've been in government a a while to know that sometimes you'll find a contract for a consultant to provide strategic planning, and that's a $1,000,000 contract. I'm not saying we have any of those. I'm like, for that. Right? But you know, additional support that if we have the right team in place, we should be able to do ourselves in house. So, I'm very confident in 15,000,000 out of 286 without any impact whatsoever on the staff that are delivering, providing services, that are paying attention to the children and keeping them safe. Okay. Thank you. Yes. Other questions? You know, I've got to make one one comment just to think about. Yes, sir. When a child is born, if you can describe the scenario they're born into, some children, it's extremely low. They almost never interact with your agency. And it's multiple times, I mean, multiple times higher for the kids the instant they're born. And so kind of the the hard question, we want more kids born into that really, really low scenario, don't we? And that that's a hard discussion, but that that's reality. It is in it. We all know that. And so I would encourage us to think about long term, you want more kids born in the scenarios where the odds are so slim. That'd be kind of a statement of of my thought process. It may take years to do that. That'd be a be a worthy goal. Thank you, mister chairman. Thank you for being here. Department of Health, I believe you're next. Welcome. Thank you. I think that's where I come in, actually. More healthy moms and families. So good evening. Thank you, Chairman, members of the committee. I appreciate the opportunity to speak to you today. My name is Lindsay Weaver. I am the state health commissioner with the Department of Health. As you can see, the vast majority of the agency funding comes from federal dollars and we are seeing that amount reduce as different federal funding streams from COVID expire. The highest levels of dedicated funding are coming from the Tobacco Master Settlement Fund. General funds are used primarily for agency operations and administration. Increases in general fund dollars are attributed to programs for maternal and child health and trauma and injury prevention. Also note that the $225,000,000 in public health funding for Health First Indiana is not included in this slide because it did not go through IDOH previously. Governor Braun's proposed budget is a balanced budget for the upcoming biennium for the Department of Health and maintains all our state funding current fiscal year 'twenty five appropriations including investments in the maternal and infant health space, trauma system development data and health workforce. The local public health funding for Health First Indiana was reduced to $100,000,000 per year from the annual appropriation of $150,000,000 here in fiscal year 'twenty 5. So while ensuring fiscal discipline, we remain focused on strengthening local health services, supporting those essential programs, operational sustainability and of course resilience. I would like to provide some updates on a few of our health investments. 1st, looking at the local public health funding which we call Health First Indiana, then maternal and child health followed by trauma system development. In 2023, you all made a historic investment for healthier Indiana in the future. After decades of a decrease in life expectancy, worsening health outcomes, a rise in chronic disease and healthcare costs, you all in Indiana chose to invest in prevention and wellness transforming our public health system with the return on investment on average of 14 to 1. 25% of medical care spending is on treatment for diseases that could have been prevented and a healthier community supports a core value of Hoosiers which is a healthy economy. As you recall, each county had to opt into funding with, 86 counties opting in in 24 and all 92 opting in for 2025. It also required at least 60% of the funding to go to preventive services. But in 2024, counties proposed budgets actually had 80% of funding going toward those preventive services and in 2025, 81% is planned to go to services such as maternal and child health and chronic disease prevention. We charge the local health departments to identify who could do the work and ensure there wasn't a duplication of services but rather work with those in their community to identify gaps. Local health departments have identified over a 1000 new partners over the last year and for this coming year. And in 25, almost 700 community based organizations, healthcare providers, schools, faith based organizations and first responders will receive over $46,000,000 or 30% of the appropriated 2025 funding to work collaboratively to improve the health of their communities. We aim to be transparent with all of you and how this funding is being utilized with our partners and most importantly for Hoosiers. Health First Indiana website, you can find each of the local health department's proposed budgets and the actual will be available this summer. Additionally, we aim to be data driven and through a health county scorecard, every county can see what are their areas of greatest need so they can focus their funding and efforts to areas such as obesity, infant mortality and tobacco use. We are also working with the counties to track the individual activities that they're doing. And in 2024, over 1,400,000 services were provided through Health First Indiana. That includes local health departments partnering with schools to provide over 300,000 services to get upstream, provide those tobacco and vaping prevention, education, CPR training for all staff and teachers. It's just a few examples. To give you a little bit more detail of the level of information that we're collecting, recognizing that we will continue to improve in how we're asking these questions, and how we're collecting the data, but it does give you an example. So for example, over 18,000 Hoosiers were screened for high blood pressure and then connected to services and provided over 26,000 women with breastfeeding education and support. To me, there is no doubt that these efforts will make a difference for our future. And again, as an example of how far the counties have come in just 1 year of a program, which I've been around enough to know to recognize this is unprecedented, in 2023, only a third of our local health departments ensured there was a comprehensive evidence based program to improve birth outcomes. And that has now grown to 75 counties thinking, talking and working to improve the outcomes for the infants and children in their community. These are just a couple of examples and all of you have been provided with examples from your from the counties that you serve. So for example, Kosciusko County recognized they actually needed to get prenatal care started in their community. So they are providing that first OB visit and then making sure they connect with further prenatal care. Jefferson County partner with their local delivery hospital who recognized they needed somebody to help navigate for their moms and babies. We also heard from you that you would like an estimated return on investment, which is a difficult space for preventive care, But we are doing that work and evaluating all the data and activities, and we'll have that later this year. But as an example, the things that we're looking at, we do know that adequate and timely prenatal care reduces health care costs because a preterm adequate, prenatal care does decrease your risk of preterm birth. A mom who gets no prenatal care has as high of 25% risk of prenatal care with a mom who gets everything they're supposed to get, gets goes down all the way to 3.7%. We also know that a preterm delivery on average costs $44,000 And so all of these counties that are working in this space will make a difference in the end. Lastly, the ultimate goal for all this funding is to improve lives and health outcomes. Now for the first time, every county has key performance indicators. All of those are available on the website. They're also on the one pages in front of you so that we can hold ourselves and also our counties accountable to these improvements. And if we recognize that they aren't making a difference, it gives us the opportunity to come in and pivot and try something new. Very quickly, I'll give you a quick update on maternal and infant health and trauma system development. In the last several years, there's been significant investment in maternal and child health and that funding has been utilized to support doulas and doula training, bereavement support for moms after loss. Now we have stay at home visiting in every single county with proactive connections for new moms. We're training providers and clinical staff on best practices to care for pregnant women and neonates, and that work is paying off. Our infant mortality rate went down for the first time, after it rose for 3 years and it's now 6.6, down from 7.2 out of 1,000 births. And the maternal mortality rate also went down to 90.4 out of 100,000 women, down from 100.1 the year prior. In 2023, we identified gaps to access for our trauma designated centers and facilities, as well as recognize a higher mortality rate for trauma in our rural communities. There was a need for a trauma system plan to address those gaps and increase coordination and training. We have since established a trauma care commission and now have a trauma system plan to provide us a roadmap for improving access to care. Trauma system funding is being utilized to support the system development, promote quality improvement and coordination and transfer, of patients and specifically addressing our rural communities. By elevating trauma center designation levels in many of the areas that we knew we needed to have more hospitals at higher level of training, providing non trauma centers with training, education, as well as simulation opportunity. And with that, I'm happy to answer any questions. Thank you. Any questions? Representative Judy? Thank you, Mr. Chairman. Thank you, Doctor. Weaver, for your testimony. I know it was a long process, the last budget session that was we moved along, and we ended up at $75,000,000 in year 1, $150,000,000 in year 2 and came to that compromise. And I was on your website looking at the 25 different programs and seeing what each counties are doing. But as we look at the budget type budget that we have going this session, looking at what those forecasts will be in April, That $100,000,000 line item, is that data driven or is that something that we just kind of looked at, we're having that as a placeholder right now? As I look out of that $225,000,000 how much has that been implemented in the programs already? How much is this county sitting on right now? So really looking over the next 2 years, is that $100,000,000 a year necessary or less, more? Yes, those are all great questions. So just as a reminder, that funding went out the door on January 1, 2024. So we are really just a year end, and I'm asking the same question. So we are collecting that data. We're gonna have the actual budgets of how the funding's been spent. We are you can tell we're tracking every activity. You know, how are they working with their community? How are they driving down health outcomes? The request, back in 2023 was based over the fact that local public health funding had been underfunded for 20 plus years. And looking at what the national averages were, what the state currently was at, and just the idea that the state needed to come in to provide more funding, really looking even, you know, at our rural communities that couldn't have the tax revenue to be able to provide these services. So that's where that original number came from, was a lot of work into that space. But yes, thank you. Thank you for the Jordan? Thank you very much. Just following up on our present on Judy's question, I think we'll be really interested in kind of what outcomes we get from this program because the methodology that we came to to get to the dollar amount was just basically, well, we're gonna be if you add up all the other states, we'll just put the pin right in the middle and it might have been, you know, more might have been less. But I think we need to pay for outcomes as opposed to just process and activity, which I think all of you would agree with that statement. So on the public health spending front, the other thing too, I think, you know, the old, 92 out of 92 counties accepted it. Why wouldn't they? I mean, so I think going forward, I would argue if, you know, counties are excited about it, some sort of having them have some sort of skin in the game might make a lot of sense to, for more ownership in it is just from again, we're the budget people, we're not the program people. So a couple of thoughts. Absolutely. Thank you for that. But as a reminder, they do have skin in the game. They have to come forward with 20% match to the funding for this year. Yes. We have same prior? Path, path, path. I'm not Thank you, mister chairman. I would also just like to point out that this is a relatively new program and that data takes time, data takes time, it takes time. In this area we tend to pass bills and then want to change them really quickly because we didn't get the data that we wanted or needed in order to represent the money spent. So I would just exercise caution. I'm a huge believer in this program. I like the diversity that every county gets to decide what every county needs. So I would just, I'm just supporting the program and I would like us to just make sure that we implement enough time to see if it's really working. Further questions? Thank you for presenting. I believe next we have Secretary Roeb. Welcome. Thank you. Secretary, whenever you're ready, the floor is yours. Members of the committee, it's been a minute. Last time I appeared before this committee, Bill Crawford Representative Crawford was serving as the chairman of this committee. So it was in 2000 I was his vice chair. That's right. That's right. And you didn't let me forget it. The so I'll be brief with my slides here because I think you have a couple questions for me. I know Representative Porter does. Let's see if I can operate the technology here. Right. So here's our organizational chart, Relatively speaking the same as it was when I left. We have spun out in the interim, the Office of Early Childhood Education has been spun out of what used to be inside of the Division of Family Resources but that's really about the only change. We've made a couple changes in the staffing chart but not a significant change yet. The budget highlights, well we fully as we mentioned earlier, we fully fund the childcare development fund that eliminates the wait list for childcare subsidies. If you have questions about that I'd be happy to address them. We as referenced earlier, we create a childcare assistance fund and it fully funds the Medicaid forecast. Let me reiterate, it fully funds the Medicaid forecast. In terms of how we plan to run the agency, well candidly, you all know the problems the Medicaid budget has had over the course of the last 18 months. And this is, well to be candid, I believe the previous administration took their eye off the ball. Missing by $1,000,000,000 is just not something that, should happen, and we will make sure it does not. We will conduct, as we did when I was last secretary, internal monthly financial reviews for each portion of the agency, and we will invite you and the members of the public to our quarterly financial review. I believe, Representative Klinker, you attended one of these at one time, and we will do that for all of the agent for all components of the agency. They can be particularly the first several are generally unpleasant because, folks have not been put through that discipline. But that discipline is what will preclude us from having, bad outcomes with the Medicaid budget. As many of you know, we have stopped advertising Medicaid programs. I imagine I will have a question about that. I'm disappointed representative Delaney is not here to to to to ask that question. We we have some issues regarding ABA therapy. It has grown exponentially over the course of the last actually that's not true, I did take math, it's grown arithmetically at a rate that is unsustainable for us. And we have issues regarding KIP-3.0 which I imagine I will have questions about and so I'll hold my comments till I so I can answer your specific questions. We have begun the certified community behavioral health clinics or CCBHC pilot implementation. I would expect questions about this. We need to make sure that we carefully manage those dollars. It is an enormous increase in funding for the 8 community mental health centers. This year, this upcoming fiscal year, we will increase funding from about $250,000,000 rather $150,000,000 to about $480,000,000 for 8 community mental health centers. Those decisions were made prior to my taking this position but we will monitor those metrics very carefully. Our budget as most of you know is primarily federal and as I have said when I last sat in this chair, I shed a tear every time we spend an unlevered dollar. So $16,000,000 of that of our $24,000,000,000 pardon, of our $24,000,000,000 is federal and we hope to leverage more through the Healthy Indiana Plan 3.0. $5,000,000 comes from the general fund and $2,200,000 from dedicated funding. So here is what you have seen before, the total state funding, for from the general revenue fund and the dedicated funds. And with that brief discussion, I will be happy to entertain your questions. Thank you. Brevini Porter? Thank you, Mr. Chairman. Good to see you again, Secretary Ro. First and foremost, my staff and I would like to know who who's the designated person that we can communicate with to get, meetings or get information from because there at one point there there was a gap in that. So is there someone who right now, I wanna get that straight. Who can I call my team call, to get information besides you? And you're busy. Yes. Well, thank you. Our legislative team, Courtney Hott, would be the person for you to speak to. And how about that? I anticipated your question. Okay. Okay. Thank you. The the the choice program, it's it's $48,000,000. I do believe it's in a choice program. But I've also heard that where it's getting out the choice program may be rolled, into the, into the Medicaid program. As you know, if that occurs, that there will be no choice because most people on choice will not be eligible by the definition of Medicaid. So can you enlighten me on that one? So I spent a bunch of time on the choice program, 4 years ago, and I've spent a fair amount of time around 8 20 years ago, and I spent a fair amount of time this week and last week on understanding the choice program. And I know representative, clearly you have some similar questions I think on this issue. And so, what I the current Choice program was created before the Pathways program was implemented. And so we did a crosswalk in terms of what services are provided in Pathways and what services are provided in Choice. And of the, I'm going to guess 50 services or perhaps more that are provided in CHOICE, all but 3 are provided in the pathways program. And those 3 services last year would have had an aggregate spend of $11,000 statewide. So they're very limited, right? We have and so we and I will prepare I have I am preparing candidly for you, and will share with you a breakdown of that funding, of the choice funding, a breakdown of what is what Medicaid programs use choice funding today. It was surprising to me that of that $48,000,000 that's funded today, only $27,000,000 of that actually goes through the area agencies on aging. I wasn't unaware of that. Frankly, I thought it was bigger than that. But we'll break all this stuff down for you. That's a great question. I would also add this. And I have as you know, we have the FSSA because I did not make these choices, FSSA has chosen to do eligibility determination differently today in the future than they had in the past. That contract was granted to MAXIMUS and begins July 1st this year. That will mean a $7,000,000 reduction in the revenues that are received by the AAAs who as you know provide the choice funding. And I think we need to have a serious conversation about the long term fiscal viability of our AAA's in the state because do we really need 16 of them today or ought we be combining them to to allow them to continue to provide the services that we need? Everything clear? I'm just go ahead. We're done. No. I'll come you come back. Everything clear? Thank you, mister chairman. I, have a number of questions. I'll try not to be greedy, allow others to get in, and, I'll probably jump back in. But, first of all, thank you, mister secretary, for being here. It's good to see you again. I was counting earlier, and, by my count, there were only 6 of us on this committee who were in the legislature, the first time you were FSSA secretary, and, 3 of us were freshmen. So we were we were coming in as you were winding up, your, your first time as secretary. So, anyway, I think I want to start by thanking you for HIP. I think most people are aware of this, but you played very big role probably, well, unquestionably a key role and and maybe the pivotal role, in creating the original hip program. And without you, there would have been no HIP. And without HIP, there would be no HIP 2.0. Now I think you referred to HIP 3.0, which I'm kinda terrified, but, we'll come back to that. But no. With that without, your vision, there would be no HIP 2.0, and without HIP 2.0, 100 of 1000 of Hoosiers wouldn't have access to healthcare today. But as a result of HIP 2.0, 100 of 1000 of Hoosiers have access to healthcare and every Hoosier is benefiting regardless of whether they are served directly or indirectly by HIP 2.0. So thank you sincerely for that and it's really it's a national model in many ways. Yes, if I may. I had some great partners in that. Pat Miller, Vice Simpson in the Senate and Charlie Brown and Tim Brown here in this House. Together we worked diligently to get that first bill passed and with Governor Daniels. So they I do get a lot of credit but that does not happen without those 4. It was certainly a team effort and I had the privilege of serving with all of the people you mentioned but every team effort takes a quarterback. So you were the quarterback. So thank you. That having been said, I'd like to start with an overarching question or maybe a reflective question. So depending on how you view it, you are in either a very enviable or unenviable position, because you are coming back to do something you did before and there will be inevitably the opportunity to compare. So years from now when you complete your service, at FSSA as secretary, how do you hope to be able to compare your first and second stents, And how do you hope stakeholders and other observers will compare your first and second stents as secretary? Well, I've been asked that question kind of a couple of times, and so here's my take on that. The first time I came to FSSA we had many, many problems. We were in 2,005 unfortunately we were first in child death and last in welfare to work. We were unfortunately, more than unfortunately, we had a Fort Wayne Development Center that we were operating that was intentionally murdering patients. It's hard to believe that's true, but it is, right. And we had a eligibility system, which was all on paper. We were spending $1,000,000 a year mailing things to ourselves. By the way, the eligibility system that most of you, many of you remember is IBM and now the reboot. So 16 years on or 20 years ago, 100% of residents in Indiana had to walk through the front door of an office to receive services. Last year, 85% of that was done online and that is an enormous advantage for the men and women who seek services. It was not easy getting there and I didn't get there by myself. Some of my predecessors got us there. I did launch the boat. So I would hope that and FSSA in those days was truly a social service agency. Today, it's a Medicaid agency, right? You are what you spend. And when you spend $20,000,000,000 on Medicaid a year, that's what you are. We're the Medicaid agency. So 20 years from now, when I leave, my goal would be to make Medicaid boring again, to take it off the front pages, to take it off of your top concern, right? That's my that would be my goal. We have a plan that we think can get there, but it will require constant fiscal prudence and that will be hopefully the legacy I can leave. Thank you. Mr. Chairman, if I may make Medicaid boring again, will there be a hat? It will be blue. Okay. Well, thank you for that. And I think there are many of us who would like to help you make Medicaid boring again. So I know I and others are ready to partner with you. Mr. Chairman, I'm going to ask about Choice to follow-up on Representative Porter's questions and then I'd like to come back to some other things after other folks have had an opportunity to weigh in. But Secretary Roeb, you said I think you said that you shed a tear every time we spent an unlevered dollar and one of the questions or maybe the tension of the choice program over the years has been the value of choice spending versus the value of spending on the state's match for Medicaid waiver. And this is something I'm really looking forward to working with you on, this session. I have a bill that I've been working with, I-4A on. I think you're aware of it. It's House Bill 1391. And we've been talking about how we can use that bill to really drill down into Medicaid diversion to look at the Choice program as a way to keep people from needing Medicaid waiver or otherwise to keep people from all of the things that come with Medicaid eligibility because to be on waiver to be on the pathways waiver, you have to be in poverty, and you have to be relatively unhealthy. So I hope it's not the policy position of the State of Indiana that we want middle class Hoosiers to have to become poor and sick before they can qualify for services to help them stay in their home and hopefully have a better quality of life at less expense to the state and federal governments. So I'm excited to work with you on that. And I'd just like you to comment on the leverage piece. So today, we went through with a and part of this is we have to say silos within it, right? That there was not a crosswalk that existed before last week that looked at the services of pathways and the services of choice, right? And last year or rather this year since choice has begun, and I'm going to use round numbers because I don't remember exactly from this afternoon's briefing that I had, but I'll get them to you precisely. So far this year, we have served about 24,000 people on choice pardon, 2,400. Of those, about 900 700 weren't on Medicaid, right? The rest are all on Medicaid. And about half of the people on Medicaid, more than half the people on Medicaid are on plan are on capitated programs. That means that many of the care coordination services that they were receiving through choice were inside of the benefits that they would have been receiving in Medicaid. So I'm not against the Choice program. I'm against spending dollars in a capitation rate and then spending it here in Choice again. So we will work with we'll show you all this data. I think you and happy to do that. I appreciate that. I mean I think we both want to leverage every dollar to the greatest extent possible. I just want us to recognize the leverage that is inherent in the design of the Choice program by keeping people from going to the edge, both financially and physically, in order to qualify for services, sometimes relatively inexpensive services, onetime services that can help them stay at home. And I think that onetime service focus is really where we want to have a discussion with you because this case has been proven. It just hasn't been done enough, and I think that's where the opportunity lies. We can go in and make minor home modifications, for example, and maybe never spend another dollar on services and the person can live longer and better. And that's where we want to have the conversation. And I want to put this on the table and certainly several online will explode. But I've been talking about this a lot lately and I think you'll appreciate it. We need to have the tough conversation about AAA geographic realignment and consolidation. Right. So to your point about the length of stay, the length of stay services on Choice is 5.3 months. That's far, far, far lower than it is in Medicaid. So I mean we'll go we'll look forward to working through this with you. Thank you. Representative Campbell? Thank you, Mr. Chair. It's great to meet you. We have had problems with people on pathways. It has not been a smooth transition for one of my constituents whose, his their supplies for incontinence was drastically cut. They're completely incontinent. They're getting 20 diapers a month, which is not even enough to make it through the month. Week, probably. You know, what what are we gonna do to I mean, I've been we've got our our township giving temporary assistance to get her her supplies. What is the best way for us to, you know, move forward with this to help our our constituents? On that particular case, I didn't I invite you to We we we've been contacting, like, monthly trying to get this taken care of. Just right. Just if I may. Contact Courtney Hott, and we will see what we can do. Generally speaking, I will tell you, I looked at a Choice Lite program 20 years ago or 18 years ago, and I did not go there. Most people know that. This would not have been my choice. No pun intended, sorry. But we are where we are, and we are we going back and we're in the middle of the ocean. We're not going back. So we're going to figure out how to make choice work. There is alleged to be gold at the end of the rainbow here in terms of coordinating care with D SNP programs. That's the goal at the end of it. We're nowhere near there. I mean, we're going to live through this for at least 2, probably 3 more years until we get there. It was an investment that the previous administration chose to make, one which we will implement and hopefully we will bear the fruit of both better care and lower costs, but it'll be a journey. Thank you. President and Judy? Thank you, mister Chairman. Thank you. Thank you for taking on this role again. My question is kind of opposite of Representative Clare here. My question is, is the expansion still needed today, HIIP 2.0? And the reason why I ask that is through some personal experience. I know that it is 90% -ten funded and 90% is funded by the Fed, 10% percent is by the half and some cigarette tax revenue. Through my experience though, as we've seen these ACA tax credit increase, I've had clients myself that is single parent, 2 kids, want to go on to the ACA, the parent can and can get the tax credit, but the kids can't because that income is right at that threshold of about 65,000 where the kids are forced onto Medicaid. If they go on to the ACA and she doesn't she or he doesn't reach that 68,000, they have to pay that tax credit back. But if we weren't in the expansion phase, we would actually they would actually be eligible for the ACA. And the other thing is that the ACA actually has a higher reimbursement rate to the hospitals than Medicaid itself. So my question is, just looking at that, is that something that you have looked at as well? Is it something that because again, those as those tax credits on the ECA have expanded since the initial development of the 2.0? I'm not sure that we legally today, we can't go back. Cannot go back. We cannot go back, right? We signed whether this was the intent or not, right, the current under current federal regulation, We expanded HIP 2.0 on using what's called a state plan amendment, not what's called using an 11 15 waiver. And so we've made it a mandatory population. So I've heard that I've heard the argument that you have made. And I think over time, we would like to make it a voluntary population so we can play with it. That's a 3, 4 year process and we can't afford to I don't think we can afford to have Hoosier Families not have health care for that period of time. We've got to we would need to manage that transition very carefully. But I do hear you. So give me that flexibility to either go ACA or Yes, right, right. I hear and I think it's an interesting question and one which we need to explore, but we need to do but to quote my wife, and she makes me say that every time, Indiana needs a hip replacement. Okay? It's her joke, not mine. I'm not that clever. Representative Green? Thank you, mister chairman, and thank you, secretary Roe. I just wanna lead off by saying I've, I've had more communication with your office in the last 2 weeks than I did in the previous 2 years. I really appreciate how proactive they've been in sharing information. I think there was a tendency to silo some things over there, before. So thank you for that. It's been helpful. Just one comment. You know, when you brought up the subject of ABA and its growth, I just would provide some context. In 2005 when you were first there, the prevalence is 1 in 125 kids. It's now 1 in a 136. So the growth is there because the prevalence is there in the rates of autism, amongst children. I I know your your office was has inherited a proposed state plan amendment, for ABA that deals with, cap on hours and years. In in folks that I've talked to, there's there's been some concern that I might open up the agency to a lawsuit based on a violation of Yeah. Federal health care parity laws. Do you have any concerns about that or thoughts about that? Well, I'm neither a lawyer nor do I sleep at a whatever you sleep to what Holiday Inn Express, that we sleep to get smart. So I I I don't I don't know that answer, sir. I don't have visibility into that. And what do you want to I mean, when you put on the slide about wanting to do a therapy review for ABA, what are some details you hope to come from that? What are you looking for in the answer? Well, first of all, thanks for sharing your stories and I've heard many stories around the state. There is no question in my mind that ABA therapy is a tremendous benefit to children and families in schools, right? I'm also and that we ought to be I mean, we're not going to discontinue it, but we have to manage that cost trajectory. I'm also aware that there is an income limitation, as an example, we talked about this, right. There is an income limitation for some kinds of ABA therapy because ABA therapy is in a bunch of different parts of our system, right. We don't have, you don't get on ABA therapy Medicaid, you get on some other kind of Medicaid that offers ABA therapy. We have found a significant increase in the last 2 years in individuals who in children getting on the waiver and then using that waiver to get AVA therapy. They didn't get their they didn't figure that one out probably completely by themselves. So this income so it does not look at parental income. So I know in many people's cases who have come to me about ABA therapy, they struggled with their insurance companies and they struggled successfully with their insurance companies to get the insurance company to pay ABA therapy. It is far easier to figure out how to get on a waiver and get Medicaid to pay for ABA therapy, I shouldn't be saying this, than it is to get it through Anthem necessarily. So we've got a lot of stakeholders here. We're spending nearly $700,000,000 on ABA therapy next year, and we need to be able to control that more effectively. The portion of the agency that runs ABA therapy is the Office of Medicaid Policy and Planning, right? You know this. The Office of Medicaid Policy and Planning processes claims. We had the OMPP has no child psychiatrist. They have no child psychologists. They have no social workers within that portion of the agency. The other portion of the agency, the one that deals with First Steps and Representative Klinker remembers my last experience here with First Steps. The First Steps program is a is done in the home, right? Autistic children are in 1st steps, it's for children 0 to 3. Most of the people there are not autistic, they have learning deficits or they have hearing deficit or speech deficit. And we worked through that over an 18 month period to get to make that program a better program. We are now trying to do that again. We also want to work with the Department of Education because we want the point of ABA therapy, one of the points I believe is to prepare children to live in a integrated school system. That's right. And we talked about your experiences with different school systems and how that works. So ABA therapy is not something that was here last time I was. It is I did not I appreciated many of the challenges I would face when I took this role. I did not appreciate the challenge that we are facing with ABA therapy. So we have convened a group, led by my deputy, who is who 2 of his children have gone through ABA therapy, and we will be working through changes in the way we work with providers and families. Sure. No. I appreciate that. I just you know, my concern when we get into a cap on ours is we get into a pay me now versus a pay me later situation where children, we defer that treatment now and then we're just gonna rely on services down the road or be pushed into a public school setting. So, I am proceeding with my predecessor's order or rather state plan amendment. That is not an end state, that is a temporary state, that we will move down that path, but we'll have to figure out something more flexible. No, and I appreciate your office's willingness to work together on this. And if I could just leave you with one food for thought, as we talked about last time we met. If there was an opportunity for children diagnosed by a certain age who have the best outcome of intervention to be, you know, not have that cap placed on them, I mean, that's something I think a lot of families out there would benefit from as they're entering into this. And like my son was able to graduate at 3 years, but had full time treatment during that time. So I appreciate your responses to that, and I look forward to working with your office. Thank you. Representative Clea. Thank you, mister chairman. Thank you, representative Greene, for your questions regarding ABA and your passion for that issue. I wanna stay on ABA for a moment and then jump back to CCBHC before we get too far away from it. Regarding ABA, well, first of all, Secretary Roeb, you provided a blueprint for getting on ABA. So did that violate the prohibition on Medicaid advertising, the call center? Yes. I'll be slapped on the wrist by Medicaid director when I get back to the office. I appreciate your frankness. I mean, I think that the conversation has focused too much on I guess I want you to respond to this. I think the conversation about ABA has focused too much on getting on to ABA therapy and not enough on getting off of ABA therapy. And what I mean by that is, I think when we put arbitrary limitations in place like this 30 hours, we're not really acknowledging the proper role of ABA therapy and the fact that I believe we should be talking about how do we ensure that everyone who can benefit from ABA therapy has access to the right amount of ABA therapy at the right time based on independent professional judgment and how do we move through milestones so that we get to the point where the conversation is about success and moving off of ABA therapy because of the success of the therapy. So I would so you meant the right amount of time. I would add also the right place, right? Is a therapy center the right place for 100% of our therapy to be going on? Maybe it is. I am told by some that it ought to be done where the child is going to experience, that rather pardon disruption. Right? I think we ought to be flexible about where that therapy is conducted as well. I've met with a number of providers and I've asked those providers, how many hours are you doing? I met with 1 provider yesterday who does almost exclusively Medicaid patients. Their average not their average, 98% of their patients did 31 hours or less, right? So that's a pretty high number. The other thing I would say is that we truly at this point in time have no independent review of the needs of that child, right? The child is reviewed by a psychiatrist. They're usually sent to an ABA facility that is somehow or another connected to that psychiatrist. There I don't believe we have any stark rules that are about referrals. So we have some work to do here. And that's why I specifically mentioned based on independent evaluation, and I appreciate your comments. I think I've learned a lot about ABA therapy, thanks in large part to Representative Greene and Representative Cash and the Arc of Indiana and others who have done so much work in this space. And I've come to understand the uniqueness of the therapy. And I think one of the things that has to be part of our conversation is the reimbursement model. I was in a conversation with Representative Green and Representative Cash and the ARC recently where we were talking about what happens if you have a therapist who is devoted most of the time or all of the time to working with a child and then that child, for example, is sick and can't go to therapy, but the provider has a therapist who is dedicated to that to serving that child, I just think we have to acknowledge the uniqueness of ABA therapy as we talk about the reimbursement model. We struggled for many years with that in the daycare in our childcare system, as you may know. And now we pretty much pay for 5 days a week whether the child is ill or not for that reason. Thank you. And if I may Mr. Chairman, I want to jump back to CCBHC. I've carried CCBHC legislation. I carried it last year. I've worked on it, had the opportunity to work on it several times in recent years, and it's something that's very important to me. You inherited a lot of things from the last administration, including CCBHC. I wasn't quite sure how to take it when it was one of the only things that made the cut in your slide presentation. But a couple of things, one, we have 8 out of 24 CMHCs that were chosen to participate in the pilots. And my CMHC was not one of those, which was very disappointing. So you've been left with the choices the previous administration made. How what's your vision for CCBHC and the build out of that system? How do we get to 24? Do you want to get to 24? How does it factor into crisis etcetera? That's a big question. Potentially. So that you are aware of it, again, let me reiterate, we are going to be more than doubling the Medicaid take for those ACMHCs this year. That is the and they have submitted their cost report plan to me. They plan to hire $84,000,000 worth of additional staffers. Is that state and federal? Because I think you cited $450,000,000 or $480,000,000 That's all in. All in, okay. And as you know, it's an enhanced match rate and that makes me smile. But we're hiring over 1,000 new employees into these 8 community mental health centers this year. That's what this cost report tells me, right? And so we need to make sure that there's a commensurate improvement in the quality of care that we're providing. Your other another group that you referenced which is the Arc of Indiana, they indicate to me that the CMHCs have not been particularly engaged with that patient population. Perhaps this would give them the opportunity to deal with the developmentally disabled who are also suffering from substance abuse or mental illness. So we have a lot to do with those 24 community mental health centers. And as with the AAA's that you reference, we had 24 before we had the Internet, we had 24 before we had a lot of interstates. Do we really need 24, right? Or can we or is it easier to do it with fewer than 24 community mental health centers? So, we used to have more. I think last time I was here we had 32, is that right? So there's been some consolidation there, maybe more consolidation. There are outcome measures that we have that so look there it's a lot more money. We're going to expect a lot better outcome. Again, I appreciate your frankness. And if the CCBHC model delivers as promised, do you see it as the crisis solution for the entire state? Well, I would be hopeful that the answer is yes, right. But I don't I think we I'm pleasantly surprised that CMS and SAMHSA allowed us to do a pilot, that they didn't make us jump right to state wideness, they gave us that chance. We are we were as you know, we were supposed to build we were supposed to go 8, 16, 24 within the biennium. As you probably saw in the budget, we're going to 8 and stop. So we'll have this time 2 years from now, we should be able to start seeing whether or not that investment that the state and federal taxpayers have made in mental health care and addiction services in these 8 is making a difference or not and then decide whether we want to proceed. If the savings is there along the way, would you be open to incremental expansion over the next 2 years? For example, I don't think Representative Schlager is here. Where is he? No, but Northwest Indiana is not represented in the 8 that were selected. So I'm concerned that we're not really getting a full picture in the pilot. Again, this is something you inherited and I'm just suggesting there may be an opportunity for some incremental expansion if we have proof of concept along the way. Well, I won't say no, but I'm not going to say yes. I would say that one of the ways that we were supposed to finance CCBHC care was through decreasing the cost of state hospitals. The only way you decrease the cost of a state hospital is to close 1 and we are currently full. So we're not going to be that is not likely to happen, at least not inside of this budget cycle or likely the next. Sure. But I appreciate that response. I mean, again, your frankness, and I mentioned Representative Slager, we have at least 2 other representatives from Northwest Indiana here on the committee. And I don't represent Northwest Indiana. I just want to make sure that the pilot gives us a true picture of what CCBHC can accomplish for the State of Indiana. Thank you. Thank you. Rifni Rohe? Thank you, Mr. Chairman. I just thank you for being here today. I was not here when you were last year. I think I was roaming out the halls. I just have one quick question, and that is going back to ABA. Can you tell us for what will be the potential impact of phasing out ABA under Medicaid and moving the liabilities to the schools? And if that is a possibility under your guidance here, have you then spoken with Katie to talk about what the impact is going to be for their budget over on that side? Okay. We're not phasing out ABA. Okay. Right. We have no intention of phasing out ABA because if we send to the schools, it would be all paid for with state with state state general fund money, and that would make me cry. K. So we don't wanna do that. Alright. Thank you. Representative Porter. Thank you, mister chairman. Mister secretary, just a couple of quick questions. In last comment prior to representative Roehway, you you said that our state hospitals are full, but we're cutting their budget. Is that correct? That's what's in the that's what's in the budget as today. Yes. So why would we do that and therefore Well, we have some work to do there. We have some work to do there with the budget agency, and we have some work also in with our eligibility folks, very so we're not in a so we've got some work to do there candidly. Okay. Thank you. Thank you very much. One more quick question. By the way, I visited the new neuro hospital this morning for the first time. I don't know if members have been there or not. Interesting place on the east side, something I tried to do when I was last year, and Governor, I believe it was Governor Pence, managed to get done. So, and can I just go on that for a minute because you talked about children? We're thinking we'll have an open floor there shortly because community is leaving that 5th floor. So we are considering turning that into an acute children's unit to deal with some of the problems that, that DCS is having in terms of placement. So we'll be working with them. Yes, sir. Mr. Secretary, during This past fall, during the Medicaid oversight committee, I asked the previous director about the federal government and how if they ever turned down any of our waiver expansions if we did the paperwork correctly, and she said no, which that was good to know. So first, I applaud you and the administration Braun and the administration rather, for their reversal of the childcare voucher wait list. However, I do see an increase in the pathways slots or waiver slots for Medicaid medically needy children. That's not there. Is is there a way to continue to look at that and begin to address, the request for additional slots? Yes. So have you heard of waiver rebalancing? Does that mean something, is that a term of art that has filtered its way to you? Pardon? Yes. I've not heard of Okay. All right. So we're redoing our waivers. This was in motion before I got there. Those waivers will be redone in 2027. That's when they're scheduled to be done. So we will look at that issue at that point in time. And we may get there earlier but that's our plan. Thank you Mr. Secretary. Thank you Mr. Chairman. I've put anything clear. Thank you Mr. Chairman. Mr. Secretary, I was very pleased to see that the governor's proposed budget fully funds Medicaid. Thank you to you and governor Braun and, secretary Satchdev and the whole team. I know that was, probably a pretty heavy discussion among the whole team. One thing that I don't see in there and I hope I'm wrong, but 988, is that funded, let's see, we have 4 call centers and 1 tech center? Yes. We have some difficult choices to make there, right? So in the portion of we could have made a decision that we were going to not go forward with the CCBHC program or we could have guaranteed that we would have 988 and the crisis units funded for all of for the entire biennium. Crisis, the cost of here's my current understanding, which I may be I may learn that I'm mistaken on this. Inside the HCCB centers, crisis is funded. So we'll see a decrease in the need for funding of crisis because it's already funded in CCBHC and by the way at a much higher Medicaid match rate. So I don't know, we've got to figure out some way to deal with that crisis, that lack of crisis funding and I don't have a good answer for you today. But I think that may be the incremental expansion or at least that's a piece of it if we can prove the concept and start seeing that savings. Yes, we won't in my mind there won't be enough data in fiscal year as we go into fiscal year 'twenty six to make that decision. Understood. Let's switch over to DDRS waivers. In 2023, the legislature appropriated funding to increase waiver rates based on a rate review process established by FSSA that ensured that rates did not become stagnant and would be adjusted more regularly to keep pace with the changing economy. If if the legislature maintains the Medicaid funding that is currently included in House Bill 101, the governor's proposed budget, is it your intent to continue to utilize the current rate review process looking at rates every 4 years? And then once the Medicaid budget is stabilized, would you consider an inflationary increase in the interim period between those 4 year reviews? Well, why I would like to be able to say yes, I don't know that our fiscal condition will allow it. So I'll again, I won't say no, but we're not going to I never intend to be in front of this committee or the budget committee with a Medicaid budget that's unbalanced. I would not bet on too many things at this point in the legislative session, but I would definitely bet money on your statement earlier that we will not have a $1,000,000,000 miss under your leadership. One additional question related to the budget, if I may, mister chairman. Is there any money in the budget to address the waiting list that are currently in place for the health and wellness waiver and the family support waiver, the FSW waiver, you know, we've developed significant waiting lists on both of those waivers, after having eliminated the FSW waiting list and obviously health and wellness is a new waiver. Yeah. But we didn't have that situation when it was part of the A and D waiver. So now we have people on waiting lists who in many cases are going to end up requiring more expensive services if they don't have access to the waivers. Yes, I understand the argument that the wait lists are self defeating. And we'll be bringing through and I will let me tell you what I've uncovered so far. And as I continue to peel back the onion here, was we take people off the waitlist, we're taking them off the waitlist and we're inviting them off the waitlist, right? And then they go through the Medicaid process for eligibility, which is a 2 step process, right? You've got to be physically have 3 levels of 3 ADLs, right? And you've got to be economically where the where you need to be. So 6 months in to the waitlist, we're taking about 40% of the people that we take invite off the waitlist ever get on, in part because they never respond to our letters, in part because they're nowhere near being eligible, in part because they don't meet the 3 ADLs. So one of the things that we have done is we have so today that wait list, if you get invited off in July, you have 3 60 days to decide that you want to be on that program. Well, we're that means that other people aren't being invited off, right? So we've shrunk that down to 180 days, to move to be able to hopefully move people who are serious about it off the waitlist. When I wish I could tell you that I was confident that we could do this before we went into the new MAXIMUS contract. I don't believe the AAA's will be able to get this done, but we're going to increase the amount of information, both financial information and physical information that we collect at the point you get on the waitlist, right? Again, we're there are people on that waitlist who won't be invited today. There are people on that waitlist who will not be invited off until April, May, June who honestly will make it, right? We should be adjudicating this more quickly. We should have a higher threshold for getting on the waitlist. So those are some of the changes that the operational changes that we'll be making. And I do understand the notion that putting someone a different level of care will save us money and keep someone out of a nursing home. So I subscribe to that argument. I think the previous administration candidly in a panic decided to do this because they needed what was a quick fix, and it is a quick fix, but it's probably not the best long term fix. Thank you. I appreciate that. Mr. Chairman, I'm down to 2 questions. I can hold them or ask them. Yes. Can you let's hold those if we can't move on, but thank you. Can you do those later? Thank you. Thanks for presenting. Appreciate that. I don't know how it's going to be late. Can I just say one other thing? Yes, you may. We have a the HIP 3.0, right? We probably need will likely come before this committee. And I look forward to coming back and discussing what HIP 3.0 might look like. Mr. Chairman, members of the committee, thank you for your time. Dan, thank you for answering a lot of questions. Last we have on the list is Lieutenant Governor Beckwith. I know we're running late, but if he's out in the hall and wants to come forward, that'd be fine. I didn't quite fall. He was at the hall when I was. All those. K. Let let us go ahead and and get back to the order, please. Yeah. Good. Swing it back to order. Thank you. Ma'am, if you would, please. Ma'am, we we thank you. K. We're gonna gather Beckwith. Sorry. Running late, but the floor is yours. Go ahead and presentation. My best to go very fast. Would you turn your a light on, please, or your Oh, sorry. You got it. There you go. Alright. Thank you. Thank you, chairman. Thank you, vice chairman, and members of the committee for this opportunity to speak today. I'm here to discuss important aspects of Governor Mike Braun's vision for a stronger, more prosperous Indiana. One rooted in fiscal responsibility, respect for taxpayers, and a commitment to creating an environment where opportunity and freedom can flourish. Just a little bit about my background. I've been a small business owner, been a pastor, I've been somebody who has, dealt with leadership and manage people and organizations for, for 20 20 plus years now, both in the private, non profit private, profit for profit and non profit world. Been, traveling the state for the last year and a half talking to farmers, talking to rural communities, talking to, Hoosiers about what they want from their government. And so I feel like I've really got a good, just, baptism by fire, what where we need to go when it comes to rural communities. I've been on the job obviously for 3 weeks, you've you've, heard the other secretary speak, but unlike the other secretaries I was elected to fill an office, and and that's where we've shifted, and and that's what we're doing, but we love governor Braun's vision. It's a lockstep with what I believe should also be happening in our state. And I have a passion for rural communities and agriculture. My my family business, growing up was in the dairy world and so I've been, very much rooted in agriculture my entire life and and and love love the heart of farmers around our country and specifically in this in the state. You know, one one key part of, Governor Braun's agenda is the tax credit for farmers and incentives for retiring farmers we understand the agriculture, within the the department of agriculture we understand how agriculture is the backbone of our state's economy and it's vital that we make it easier for the next generation of farmers to step in, take over, and continue to grow Indiana's agriculture legacy. The tax credit will provide a necessary support to make farm transition smoother and more attractive, incentivizing young people to invest in the future of farming, while retiring farmers pass the torch in a way that ensures both their legacy and continued health of our agriculture industry. Governor Braun's freedom and opportunity agenda isn't just about reducing size of government, it's about empowering individuals, businesses, and families across Indiana to thrive in a system that works for them, not against them. I hate overbearing, government and we will make sure that the government does work for, Hoosiers. By investing in in efficiency and cutting unnecessary red tape, we can create an environment where opportunity is abundant and the hard work of Hoosiers is rewarded. Within my office, we are looking for ways to cut. We are gonna hit that 5% reduction in 2025. The Lieutenant Governor's office, oversees the administrative grants, the OCCR grants and ISDA grants. We do the accounting and budget, travel arrangements, contracts and procurement, broadband payments, through the Indiana, connectivity program, and the next level, connections program, we take care of all of that. Then on to the office of community and rural affairs, you know, the general fund in that in that office, maybe you know this, maybe, you've you've probably seen this in, in the budget. The general fund, 90% of the general fund in OCCRA, pays staff salaries. Now that may seem really bloated, but really the the purpose of OCCRA is to dole out those federal grants. So we we partner with the federal government. We provide the labor. They provide the funds, and then we make sure it gets into the right hands of rural and, rural communities to build economic prosperity in small towns. Now I'm a small town boy. I love small towns. I'm a fight for small towns. I, you know, especially, the commute down here, reminds me every day that, small towns are where it's at. So, we are going to make sure that that, OCCRA, through the grant process, encourages economic development and growth in small rural communities. We have our, CDBG program. Have you heard of that? It's community development block, block grant program. We've awarded, the 3rd typically, the federal grant of $30,000,000 being processed by OCRA is what is what we do every year. We've awarded, 81 grants across the state totaling about $33, $1,000,000 with matching grants that then bump that up to 54,000,000. So there's a lot of great funds that are going into, small small town, Indiana. 17 new grant administrators, certified as part of the of the grant administrator training and, our community liaisons, visited more than 220 Indiana Communities last year and actually, that's gonna get better under the leadership of, our new director, Fred Glenn, who's here tonight as well. And, he's going to, he's streamlining already a lot of those processes, and encouraging the, liaisons to really get back on the road more. We saw I think COVID kinda shut that down a little bit more than it should have. So, our, rural economic development fund has really positively impacted rural communities through the Indiana Main Street program, and, socially connected communities program and the Stellar Pathways program. So, those programs are vital to the success of the economic growth of rural communities in Indiana. I would encourage you to take a hard look at those. When it comes to the state, Department of Agriculture, we've got great leadership in, Director Lam, Don Lam, and, Katie Nelson who's here tonight. She's the assistant, director, deputy director of ISDA, and really ISDA serves to be the unified voice for farmers. Indiana needs our farmers in the ISDA, they need us to be the liaison between the government and the farmers. So our return on investment for the state's, agricultural industry, I it's amazing. Agriculture contributes to $35,000,000,000 to, to the Indiana economy. We have over 94,000 farmers, and 53,000 farming operations. Indiana's 9th in the nation for farming. 94% of Indiana farms are family owned and operated. Indiana has the 7th largest ag exporter in is the 7th largest ag exporter in the nation. Think about that for a second. And so with, with the help of Representative Culp, Aylesworth and a couple other legislators, we are moving to create a portal to streamline resources, communication accessibility to these vital programs. So we've got issues within the grain buyers world. I think many of you may know about that. I can hit on that if you'd like to talk about that too, but I won't go into it for sake of time. Supporting FFA is a big heart, passion of mine, future farmers of America. Although that's not what it means, but that's what most people think it means. It is the legacy that we're leaving behind. FFA is vitally important to our, our future in agriculture. I would say this, agriculture is the backbone economy of Indiana. If that goes down, Indiana's economic power goes down, and we need to be very, very concerned, and, with with not giving it the attention that it needs. And I I will tell you this, out of all the state agriculture, departments, we run the tightest, smallest, efficient most efficient, ag, department out of any other states, especially for the fact that we are contributing such powerhouse numbers in the world of, global, agriculture. So, they do a great job of stream streamlining. If you invest more money in that, that dollar will go. So far, your return on investment will be, will be like nothing any other state can even come close to. I'm I'm confident of that. So in closing, I wanna remind this committee of the the lifeline that I said agriculture is our rural communities represent, also to Indiana. These are real people. The farmers, families, essential workers who contribute tirelessly to our state's economy and way of life. You know, they they need us to listen, to understand and provide the support that will strengthen their communities and ensure their future success. Providing that support requires funding, responsible funding. So my office is committed to being a diligent steward of taxpayer dollars ensuring that every dollar is spent and used effectively and efficiently and with fiscal responsibility. By doing so, we can create a lasting solution, that empowers our rural communities and keeps Indiana on a path toward continued prosperity. Thank you for your time and consideration today, and I look forward to working with this committee to advance policies that will make a positive lasting impact on Indiana's economy and future. I'd be happy to answer any questions, or if you just wanna go home, that's fine too. We can just adjourn right now. So Rosie clinker. Thank you, mister mister chairman. Mister lieutenant governor, it was never said that you were a small business person that I can remember was a pastor. Yeah. Full time pastor. Yes. Are you also a dairy farmer? Yeah. So I grew up in the dairy world. I've worked with my dad's company. We I don't I do that part time. I still help. I do sales with that. We sell products, packaging products to dairies all over the country and flavoring, the ingredients to dairies. Where is that located? Hillsdale, Michigan. So southern my dad was the president of the Michigan Dairy Association for a few years. So kinda grew up in that world, love that world, and, you know, just, you know, have always loved farmers and worked with farmers. So k. Thank you. I just came out that you were a full time pastor, didn't you? I I have a lot of irons in the fire, and I and then the really, the other business that I run now is a non profit, that is a it's a music school for, Central Indiana students. We train them up in the music arts and teach them how to play music, drums, guitar, vocals, music recording, music music writing. And so I've I've a pat I have a passion there too. So got staff that, you know, teach and and train up, and we've had hundreds of students that have gone through that school and that program over the last, probably, 15 years. So you're actually a full time musician too? Well, yeah. I I just like I said, I like to do a lot of a lot of things. So, yeah. Yep. So I got a couple of guitars up in my, my office. If anyone wants to come up and, jam a little bit, we can do that. Yeah. So I play the baritone uke, but not a guitar. Thank you. You're welcome. Thank you. Thank you. Any other questions? Thank you for presenting. We appreciate that. Yep. Yep. Representative Johnny, have a question? Go ahead. I know we all wanna get out of here. Someone could be in charge. We're almost out. You guys are almost out. Yeah. Lieutenant Governor, welcome to the State House, the People's House. Thank you. Your predecessor, as we had the conversation last week briefly, was a champion of fighting hunger in our state. She helped with funding for the food banks. I remember bringing her to Lake County on a trip up there, and she spent a whole day up there. And we got to tour the food bank, which she got to see firsthand, why the food banks are needed. That year, on the by end of budget year, we were able to fund and double the funding for the food bank here, in our state. I hope you continue those efforts as wide and hear none of that. The second thing, also your predecessor was a big champion of our Hoosiers with disabilities, and I hope we continue to serve the most vulnerable people in our community. And the last thing is mental health. So those were three things that I was able to work very closely with your predecessor. If you have any time to expand, elaborate on those briefly of what your plans for your office Yes. Thank you. So those initiatives will be followed as well. I mean, we Susanne was a is a friend of mine and and, I I very much valued her attention to working with mental health and disabilities and making sure that the least of these were being were being cared for. And, I think that's, that that's near and dear to my heart as a pastor. If you give us the funding to do it, we will we will pick up where she left off. I think there is some concern that we're getting, you know, we're getting, you know, all all of our budgets are getting trimmed back, which is good. I think it needs to get trimmed trimmed back. But we are asking the question, okay, what what will we be able to do? And I guess the question I'd like to pose to every every one of you is, what do you want the lieutenant governor's office to do on behalf of the people? And I was I was meeting with the senator the other day and, you know, they're trying to, you know, pull things back from the lieutenant governor's office quite a bit over there in the senate. And, I just said to him, I said, senator, did you just want me to sit in an office and take a $200,000 paycheck? Because I'd be more than happy to do that. I'll go play golf for 4 years, and not look back. But I said, that's gonna be a really bad, stewardship of the people's money. I hate that it I don't want that to be the case. And I know there are some states that treat the lieutenant governor's office just like that and say, hey. We'll pay you a ton of money just to go over there and not do anything. I think this office can be very effective, very powerful, and can be an amazing champion to serve the underserved communities. And if you if you would have me do that, then I will gladly go out there and, and be a champion in that regard. So, yeah. You're welcome. Representative Path. Thank you, mister chairman. So I was on the OCCR website earlier today. Pardon me. It's been a long day. And I know show offers covers, the 40 40% of the state's population residing in 76 rural communities. So I know each community has its own challenge, I'm on the Ag Committee now and so since you've taken over has there been turnover in your office? Yes. We've had we've had, a couple people who have left just because of the new administration. We haven't filled everything yet. I think we're kinda all saying, let's hold up a second. We wanna see what really is needed, and and we've done that with Okra, with some of the community liaisons. We've also, seen an egg. We got about 6 spots right now in the Department of Agriculture that aren't being filled because, again, we wanna see, k, how how tight of a ship can we run? Do we really need these positions? So, we've got openings, but it's kinda one of those those things we wanna kinda just wait and see what really is needed. And we don't really wanna just hire, just to hire. So so what how many people do you have working in Okra? And so how many left and how many are still unfilled? I don't I don't know. Oh, I think Okra, Fred, 30 No. There's 20 people at Okra. Currently, 3 openings. 2 people left. There's 2 people that were pertaining to sit. Everybody else is it stayed on since I've been there. But we have we have filled one liaison position. We got one more open liaison position that we could fill. There's a director of the community public block program that we've just decided to interview for just because it's becoming so crucial, that program. There's still money going out. We were gonna hold off on that just to see where the the budget ends up. And we got over there, there's no more openings, but the the other department is deals with mainstream, your, seller community program. That department is full. So currently, there's 20 employee there's 20 supposed to be 20 in total employees at Oak Grove, but we have 3 open positions currently. Okay. Thank you. That that's all. And Department of Ag, 65 employees, give or take, with about 6 openings. So yep. Yeah. You're welcome. Thank you. Any other questions? Thank you again for presenting. We appreciate that. Thank you. Appreciate it. Yeah. Members of committee, next week on this very day on Thursday, we're gonna hear house bill 101 and take public testimony. So it it it could last just as long. And then count on the next 2 Tuesdays upon adjournment meeting. At least hold those, and, of course, on Wednesday at 1:30. And kind of our backup day is, I guess, 2 weeks from the day if we would need that. My my goal is not to use that day, but I can't promise. And so with that, again, thank you for for your long hours and work and good questions. And with that, we'll stand adjourned.