##VIDEO ID:https://indianapolis.granicus.com/MediaPlayer.php?view_id=9&clip_id=24518## do. Just kidding. 2 days. Notice and it. Right? And it's that. Good evening. My name is Christa currently know it is Wednesday, JANUARY. 29 05:30pm. We are in room 2.60, of the city county building. And I officially call to order meeting of the Investigative Committee of the Council will again, tonight's meeting with attendance, starting with members to my left, please. MADAM Chair, Josh Payne district. 21, thank you. MADAM Chair, Brian Maori district. 25, thank you. MADAM Chair, Renee Allen District, 15, good evening, MADAM CHAIRWOMAN and colleagues and Nielsen District 14. Thank you. MADAM Chair, Kristin Jones District 18. Very Thank you for tonight's agenda. We have one item on our agenda. Thank you so much. Brandon didn't want to MISTER Buehler. MISS Ellis for joining us this evening to provide an update on our anonymous reporting tool that was recently instituted across the enterprise and just to clarify, if you would, let us know, remind us. And those watching from home the offices to which you belong, please. Sure one l is a director of the Office Human Resources Grated Buehler Office Corporation counsel. Thank you very much. Looking forward to hearing on the anonymous reporting tool. Update feel free to take it on Sunday. Lets Good evening chair moment members of the committee. My name is Twana Allison, the director of office, human resources, city of Annapolis, the Marion County. Appreciate you inviting me here tonight to speak, but to speak about the new anonymous workplace reporting tool available to the city and county employees called speak freely. And I hope you don't mind and I read a prepared statement to begin this discussion. And there's a lot of important information to share with the committee tonight. And I want to make sure that I don't leave anything out. We'll speak flee a product of a company called hr Cutie was elected in OCTOBER 2024. In consultation with some of the members of this committee, the platform chosen for its real-time case management system that allows city and county employees to receive updates their case, even if they choose to remain anonymous. Other features, including phone hotline staffed. 24 7 interpreter support available and up to 3 languages. Online reporting with the qr code for ease of access in an option, too. Right live in. Adam is two-way communication. For the last several months. City county, human resources, along with I sa and occ have been working diligently with the hr acuity team to implement this new tool. It was a complicated endeavor to incorporate this technology with the systems and security protocols of our enterprise. But we are pleased to report that's Pete fully is now available to all current former city County employees. Hr center. The initial communication to through the city County Communication Enterprise system to inform employees about how to access be fully on JANUARY. The 10 in the same communication. We have formed employees that the temporary internal reporting form that was set up last fall will be discontinued on FEBRUARY. The first. With that linked to be redirected to speak freely. One JANUARY 15th information regarding the anonymous reporting 2 was included in the monthly hr newsletter and sent out their city county communications. Hr will continue to remind employees. How to access be fully as a standard part of our newsletters to the enterprise and through our Internet sites. Since peaking was rolled out, we have received 13 workplace related concerns through the system. This in addition to the workplace for plated related complaints that were submitted through the temporary internal for him. Prior to JANUARY, the 10th. At this time, human resources and actively investigating 13 workplace related cases. I want to thank the members of this committee for their partnership in championing this new anonymous tool in helping to select the technology system that support the hardworking employees of the city in the county. Thank you that. I think now is an appropriate time before we get too far into MR. Dealers portion to accept any comments from my colleagues here on the Are there any? Councilor Mowery? Thank you for the update here. I appreciate It would. Certainly helped to Hank just for me anyway, just to see what it looks like as well as homes. Assuming I can go online, I can see this as well and navigate through it just to get an idea what it looks like. Yes, So had 13 complaints since JANUARY 10. Almost one a day. Almost yes. That's that's that's alarming. The big concern, I think hopefully this committee can really take home and try to figure out where we're going wrong because that was a big number for, you know, 13 days having 13 complaints. That's that's bad. That's really know, you know, granted those to have to investigate see what the what the validity of those complaints are. But it's still concerning to me that we have 13 13 days. It's come. But I appreciate getting this open making sure we give employees a place to go to when they need to make complaints. Thank you. Thank you, counselor. Yes, counselor Allen, thank you. MADAM Chair. Agree with counselor Mowery about, you know, just happened something in front of us to see exactly what it looks like. But I'm quite sure like you said, we can go online to look at it. But my question is, what is the time around time West says submitted to, you know, the system, the hotline. What is the time around time for to respond back to the rich? Could there. And then what is the timeline? I turn around time when shoot and sent it over to that director to investigate. Well, it's a new system. We're still working out a lot of those protocols that I can say. The 13 complaints that we receive so far, we have just been actively in the system making sure that we're communicating. We are also trying to figure out if there's a delay with anyone not responding in a timely manner that we want to give it enough time to let that person to see our responses in the case management system before closing out anything so will make sure we're doing a thorough job and not closing out anything. So again, it's just depending on the type of complaint or concern that is coming in some some of the concerns MAY not even need too much investigation because it just it can bring it to our attention. Something that they experience their looked into. But we have a dedicated team looking in it every single day. Other comments or questions. Yes, Thank you. MADAM Chair. Just kind of falling out there. You you can close out the complaints that they haven't responded. Is there an op option for them say maybe they haven't responded because they haven't worked up the courage to come forward and say anything else that made the complaint. They want to kind of sit on it for a minute. If that complaint gets closed out, can they still go back in? They have their ticket number. They call ticket numbers. They can still go in there. Okay. Yes. Thank Thank you. Could question others. I had a couple. Is there a training plan or a plan in place for leaders? Department heads for directing individuals other than the sort of mass communications that gone now. That's that's a good question, counsel. I mean, we were more than welcome to push. We can push through some just to make sure we do have a a leadership and management training. We incorporate that and make sure that they're much there where we also have a flyer that we're trying to work on. They get the graphics and things right. That we plan to send that out as well. So I think that's the flyer portion because I think about, you know, if you're looking at your city county email on your phone, but then there's a qr code to scan. It's like how do I scan a qr code that I'm martie viewing from the phone. So having that printed and then is the url like a long and complicated or is it like speak fully dot in, Gov or something nice crispy a very big coats. But yes, it's not that long and complicated. Know. Do you could do have right off hand that I could make a note. And for those watching from home. To to have that and I know you sent it. So I'm just. Occasion this evening. Is candy. That's Pete fully now that calm. Very good. Yeah. I would highly recommend some type of training plan or, you know, when when to utilize this tool, when MAY be other measures are more appropriate, right? So you know, as counselor Mowery and Councilor Allen noted that the appropriate use of the tool is there. And I think that that would be really beneficial to to everyone using the tool and then make it easier for your team to to be as thorough and investigate those as they come. I think just to briefly comment on. That's great point. CHAIRWOMAN Clean But to counsel now reason Couser Allen's point. Part of the 13 I think tells us hopefully that the systems were People now have a form to come forward and feel comfortable that it is. In fact, Anonymous says it is a 3rd party. And I think that what we hope to work with you all and this committee on is hearing from see how employees after a month, however long we think are you all we all cleverly think is appropriate as what they think it is. If you have trouble accessing there's other the aspect we need to do so right now we and lease it. I can speak from a different position than other people who work here that I think it's intuitive. That doesn't mean that other workers MAY not find into So I'm certainly curious to hear that feedback however, long, we kind of all do you a guide us on asking those kind of internal surveys for that? Thank you, Brandon. I think that, you know, 2 things one, thank you for being open to that feedback. And one team that but 2 unite. Think that we have experience of having a pretty forthright you know, employee base that are always very vocal about, you know, how things go. Weather good or bad. So, you know, anyone watching at home are attending with us in the audience tonight. Definitely hear. Hear that. Your feedback is welcome on the newly instituted anonymous reporting tool because that that thing is new online and maybe there are some things that can be altered or better communicated by the administration. Yes, Councilmember, thank you. MADAM Chair. Just a question of popped. My mind here is we're talking about these complaints 13 complaints. It obviously can't give out any kind of information on where they're coming from. But are, is there a are there any departments that are governmental units that are standing out where they're receiving more complaints than others is the kind of spread out. If you to Yeah, we can't at this point says they're obviously under investigation. Get that give that kind of detail. What I can say is. As we're kind of formerly what would be good standard operating procedures that but ultimately Professor Phillips as well to give guidance for as policy goes, kind of separate about this. First juncture as to what we're calling concerns. This is what calling complains and the kind of the baseline for that at this point, everything's flexible. Is that a concern is something that on the facts given don't raise to a violation of city policy. So very basic example is my Boston. Thank for coming to work today. So that wouldn't be a policy violation. That baby. Okay. We've noted there will come a soft spot that one isn't necessarily rise to a level of a policy violation as opposed to a complaint that would harassment. I have you know, Mike, it's really troubling. I come to work because every day. So and so does this to me. So that's at this point. Our kind of separate those out. And so I think within 13 there's a mix of those. Thank you and Yes, counselor Cherryland. MR. Mueller to follow up on that are maybe this is for MISS Ellis as well. So appreciate you. Pride distinction between concern versus complaint. But it is is is it hr corporation counsel or is that data still being aggregated in a way to? But why might be concern now? But if it's a concern every month for the next 6 years, I'd say now it's 2 and departmental issuer a larger issue. You talk a little bit about obviously taking complaints to different level. But the kind how you will handle concerns and that data analysis piece, penny. They are some hr Linux in hr to the system when we take the initial complaint because again, it could come over the phone or online. We didn't have to decide where it's going to go. If there's 2 pathways, it's just a concern. It goes over into the employee relations portion and they can just ahead and follow up accordingly. Sometimes they could just be inquiries about certain things regarding policy interpretation. So the 13 I would be and as alarm. But because some of them again or just concerns. So then we can read it. You can get some more information as we're reading it through, we'll make the determination if it's going to go down. The complaint about meeting is going to calls for an investigation to be conducted. So again, the initial portion is is landing in a paid for has to review figure out which ones are concerns, which ones are complaints, which was going to require additional investigations. Some more questions and answers and then we continue that dialogue until we can get a result. So it's not going anywhere. Even though I sit calls, it's just not showing as active. Concern come play in his q. If that makes sense. Good Other comments. Yes, Council Thanks, CHAIRWOMAN. Curious now talk about complaints and there's 13 investigations. So those are complaints. Also counted him out and the concerns are there other? People are filing or someone's filed? Something were to concerns the of 2 buckets like you have. 12 complaints are 13 complaints and 12 concerns. Is there like that or is this 13 are all encompassing and what's better for all included so that the Senate and the complaints are sitting there. And again, we have to just make sure that where it is going down. A track of the investigation has got a choir. One of our teams from our team members do a little bit farther that more questions. If it's something that's a concern that I can just answer question about a policy question about. A procedure. We can go a different path to the employee relations team that had to sit there. So when I say that 13 it with the concerns and the complaint combined together and they're all 13 being investigated currently. That is correct. Okay. And you MAY or MAY not be this as well. This kind of us on last question. I have previous to Most recent one was are there any trends you're seeing in all that you can you know, there alarming are you know that we need to be aware of. Too early to tell, but I haven't seen any trending yet, ok, 3 weeks and but more than welcome to come back and try to give you as much of an update as we can without reaching any type of privacy for others. But at this point in time, no, thank Any other comments or questions? I'm gonna go back to the fire timeline. Is there printing process or distribution process for that that project and the reason I'm asking is because I'm trying to recall in the e-mail notices that have gone now, were there like pbs that officers could print. So, for example, could the clerk and hang them in the council offices so on and so forth? Yes, okay. And so with this other flyer that we planned this and that we will see in an attic and to be candid communication. But just gonna points on the scene to the various all site locations is easy for us to drop them off anywhere in this building because working out of this building. But as the more off-site location show were kind of especially with the employees that MAY or MAY not have access to a computer or even have the flyer. And because the qr code is on the flyer, we want to be able to send them out to our off-site locations where they can put up in a common area us and then that way again, they don't have to have a piece of paper in front of him, but they go by with their fall. They can access the tool. Hopefully other co-workers are saying them. Yeah, I think that's that's excellent missile as it MAY be a good practice or encourage and departments to post those in the areas that you post that you have to post some of the federally regulated post posters as well. I think that would be a good practice to institute. So folks know right where to go. All right. If there are no more questions for MISS Ellis, I will hand the floor back to MR. All right. Thank Thank you. Chair a my little bit different because I'm not an hr expert. I support Director Allison do want to commend her breaking back to get this up and running for county employee. I know they appreciate it. Always say it, but thank you for all your work. Thank you very much. So I want to kind of give an update from the occ legal standpoint of where we are. As far as working with your firm Fisher appreciate working with. They are met the criteria you put in which was a tall order for independent base because a law firm that didn't have app list highs but also is a leader expertise in. We're asking a lot and title 7 law overall to try to get thing. You all know just taking center stage between last time we my office was here, the committee on OCTOBER 9th. As you know, it's like to fish or Phillips. Has your firm the following day. My office and myself communicated with relevancy County employees my that the corporation counsel would be the point of contact for this committee as well as for Fisher Phillips and that they were to preserve any potential potentially relevant documents and data. So we documented that. And for those employees to preserve any and all evidence that could potentially be relevant to this inquiry on NOVEMBER 14th, Fisher Phillips to the Cup has initial presentation to this committee after kind of look at our city ordinance and the structure of our of enterprise right after that meeting. I work with the attorneys at Fisher Phillips because they wanted to have in-depth interviews with Post Director Alice and my chief counsel Alan covid also serves as a charge that her counseling attorney here in the city and has 4, 40 years. So we scheduled those and held those 2 meetings. They both that separately with with the attorneys and those on that from on NOVEMBER. 25th on DECEMBER, 20th. So little less than month later, we received city received additional correspondents from Fisher Phillips. Peter, in the scope that you all set in of the investigation as well as requesting certain documents. In that correspondence, Fisher Filip suggested in turn into an agreement to govern something we've all talked about governing the sharing of documents that we protect them privacy. And that's this committee's and the city's cold privacy victims and witnesses that so they can, but they could also see what steps to take in so they could look at that to make the investigation after receiving that letter, it issued a supplemental notice to all. Parties that I thought had all the information. Reiterating overtook, though, seem to preserve all evidence and shared everything. In that letter. The Fisher Phillips said that they were interested in receiving today. We could be aware of what the preserve and to tell them to contact me or my office of questions about preserving any data. So we want to make sure we save everything and nothing got taken away in this time. Some are 23rd. We responded. Official. Our Danaher who Phillips. We followed up again on JANUARY 1st and initially had our first call of the JANUARY 9th, JANUARY, 16th is what we produced our first round of documents to Fisher Phillips start reviewing to as transparent possible. Those documents were essentially the public record documents, the ones that are public and frankly easier to access and maintain to give off JANUARY 24th. Last week we executed our agreement that would cover and and protect privilege teacher and the privacy nature of those documents. So we could fully give the full documents to Fisher Phillips in a manner that they can fully see interview that process has taken place this week. It's still rolling production again in full transparency. Only thing that this point that remaining, which we anticipate being done by next week is the mail. I will say that. I don't know if your little caters but discovery knows every is a very complicated, lengthy process in court. I want to thank the eye as a team because they I've talked with them and prioritize these. We are currently getting that streamline and getting those search results done. I'd love by Friday's get Philips. But to be for we realistically be by early next week or mid next week. We like to get those off to that. And so then they have everything from their first review can start getting through that efficient and timely manner. It can come back to us that there's other documents they think exist or maybe those documents gave an idea that something else existed. So we want to give them opportunity to follow up with us as well. So that's kind of where that stands from a getting materials to guide your players. Very good and thank you, MR. Buehler and are you you know, just to be reminded him for the edification of this committee, part of the ordinance mandated sort of an interim report to be brought to committee by the end of FEBRUARY. And so it appears that there will be plenty of documents. Plenty of things for Fisher Phillips team to investigate and sort through to be able to do there part in that. Are you willing to serve what you just ran through? I really appreciate that timeline. Are you willing to give that timeline starting in writing or in memo fashion? So that, you know, our legal counsel can help synthesize that information into the interim report. Get gasoline be happy to take that up l a accounts of pierce or whoever else. So, yes, I you have a kind. I I know we do have this committee, but we want to me sure there are also staying in compliance with briefing the council as a whole on a quarterly basis as well. And so that timeline that you just presented would be a perfect piece. I think, to put into into this first quarterly reports. Actually happy that. Thank you. Thank you. Alright, comments from counselors, counselor Nielsen. I thank you, CHAIRWOMAN. MR. Beeler so from the from your perspective from your standpoint, administrations, is it just occ that's working on this or has had have you all retain outside counsel on this? That's In because of that, that the deadline and everything I found it early on to be committed to having an attorney that could always be on call to be responsive to Fisher Phillips. So we did engage outside counsel fakery drinker, Biddle Raeford because they're good name at the moment. That so that we retain the council there. In fact, really threefold the biggest one was to be responsive as we knew that. And I guess I knows from a litigator how in depth the discovery can with you. Internal system of getting that got have someone constantly be on it. The second being from a figure size has technologically technological things. We just don't have so we can get through information. Quicker they that the same technology. Fisher Phillips has here. The city. We just don't have that kind of technology. So its to also be able to disseminate the information and the documents to Fisher Phillips much more quickly otherwise. It seemed out their 2000 emails. Is this relevant is the so it's just easier system. They have. And finally, they have subject matter expertise in this area as well. So I thought that was appropriate. So someone could always be responsive. Absolutely council. And so just for transparency sake, so is the current cause. I know, for example, we have a number of funds here in town who do business with the city of in Indianapolis. That's not unique. So is this. Contract with Fay Gree a separate contract. Outside of outside of any other current contracts that they agree MAY have with the city. That is Counselor, thank you. Thank you, gentlemen. Absolutely great question. Councilor pain. MADAM Chair. So when it comes to the e-mails, the going to be turned over. Ioc does a search on assuming e-mails just like when the city council gets a public records request. What criteria are they using to? Find those emails? Search to those e-mails and then turn over to you and fakery. And then ultimately to Fisher Phillips. Quick question has to pay. Essentially it's again, litigation typically, especially with professional firms, ones that really have stuff together like Fisher Phillips, we collaborate and they provide search terms. So we kind of go through that. And so really it's a broad batch at this point. They did some very broad search terms, which would, of course, generate a lot of e-mails going through them. Part of it and I just kind of stuck litigation the moment that essentially, you know, that's lot of hits, right? If you open when you can see live have, you know? 3,000 these are lists services aren't relevant. So the waste, your you know, attorneys money to delete, delete, delete. We can do that through this through their system here to get out of things like that. So essentially it's kind of like agreed upon search terms they as would typical with any kind of Erie male discovery. We'll give them the results that are Jermaine to this inquiry. I'm just to that mode, if there's words that they didn't use a co, they're using this where this acronym a lot come back and say, hey, they used abc alive commute so we can kind refined as they get to the results of kind of get a sense of that. So it's just sort of a imperfect process like that, which is why in federal court hear years long process, sometimes. So how many search terms either is there like 10, 150200. What's that's a great. Reading that. Last year's hurricanes that to make sure I'm right. It was the nature around so terms. Someones head with the list in my head. I don't have their letter with me at the moment. But say about 20 or so terms any Maybe better question for a but if it emails been deleted or something's been moved recycle on a computer. I say, still have the ability to find that. That is correct. It would show up in the searchers. They do. That's exactly correct. Yes, thank you. Council pain counselor Mowery. Thank you. MADAM Chair, I MAY have missed the meeting went well. This did favor get involved in this. I believe I engage them at the time. The ration Fisher Phillips around OCTOBER. Probably about that time is that you didn't MISS It or that was not part of any committee progress. This is the first we're learning. That figure is on on this as well. That's the first time it's been presented to the that bank That's alarming to me because I think we should be in the way and the know what's going on with this investigation. That's the point of this committee to keep that away from us for this song is is in poor taste. I think further if Fisher Phillips has the same technology, I don't see why figure needs to be involved at all. Quite frankly, sure they do great You know, the longstanding, law firm here in the city. However, I just feel like that we could. But the middleman out here and go straight Fisher fills Kenley. Well, yeah, I guess to readers like Yes, certainly impacts the disaffected. Didn't think it was thing out of the ordinary. And again, these visits a public contract the public people. Spokeo says it is a spoken about. I again, the point would be in the efficiency because we don't have a dedicated attorney who could be dedicated to as much as it needs to be. Again, we don't have expertise in our office on this subject matter. That's pretty serious and something we wanted to take extremely seriously as well as their technology to as referenced, you know, to go through e-mails and to make sure that searches for streamlined to get that. So it is more or less that yeah. It to think that an official process, fakery have something that Fisher Phillips does not? Johnson. Let me just jump in real quick just to make sure we're all on the same page here. Just week, engage the council gave Fisher Phillips the city Engage bakery. We did not engage fakery so they have the right, Deb, outside counsel just like we have outside counsel for that. Is there outside counsel representing them in this matter? And so our outside council that working together to get these documents together, like you said, because they can assist the city. You know, at times on the same team, there are other times when we're not. And this is when not. So we have outside counsel that's representing our best Phillips. And they have outside counsel. That's helping them get the document view the documents and get them to us. And so it's it's just the litigation process so that that's them engaging a or whoever they decide the date is not something we could controlled regardless of when they told us about. Okay, it obviously not a litigator. So I don't know the ins and outs of all that. It just seems confusing to me, I guess. And I'm sure some people, the public who kind of have some of the same confusion given that. Fisher Phillips is representing U.S. Favor is now representing the city as well. We kind of created this committee to find law firm that can handle this. That's not associate with city. And so ever now we have law firm. So it's it's so it seems like if the Fager is helping the city, which is also the administration. Do these things. What's to stop them from not sending something to Fisher Phillips and Discovery. I mean, that to me come a question there and misunderstanding, I guess it is really standard boy dies confused by surprise because this isn't it's not a thing, I guess. Fisher feels that engaged to review what was contained with than General resolution. Ultimately to critique and to provide policies that this large enterprise could adopt based on we get away come out in the media last year. So I think from that standpoint, that's not favorites charges by a fissure focuses to my understanding and again, you're the client. So you could speak for more on that is you want win independent to write recommendations without knowing anyone who works in the enterprise or is engaged in the administration for that. So if a jury this far as this being a discovery process is streamlining that as far as producing the documents requested by Fishers, it's more or less. It just again, I guess attorneys working with attorneys. And that's so there's different goals. Thanks. Thank figure is not gonna write a report contradicts this year's report called area and it's it's we're giving them the documents that they need to conduct the investigation that if you conducting and that's that's a task that Fisher feels cannot do on their They to acquit to do better. Carries of. Here's also a cost associated with contracting all with a degree. We've already contracting. Want to turn one law firm that I would assume can do the same thing Greece doing now are paying to people that to do want to get one job done I feel like if it can be have all done in one one law firm, why we why we have a second win in pay. No more money out of that is costing the city the taxpayers more money now. I think Council Pierce cover representing there's there's 2 different goals here. So it's not. In lockstep to do the same thing. I mean, would you say Mr, Mueller, that it's about Cassidy sort of clerical? Communication functions that that figure performing at this time for the administration. That's correct. Want to thank That's exactly right. It's more or less that it's more or less streamline the vehicle to get documents. To them. And it's yeah, I think that's that's fair characterization. So as my whole life since new of already contracted 1, 1, law firm, the could a seemingly do the same thing favors doing so hopefully these kind of updates things that are happening behind the scenes. We get a little more knowledge just because I think respect or using taxpayer dollars to do need to know we should we should know Zoe's taxpayers especially should know how are spending those dollars to me doesn't seem seems kind of just blown away here by hiring law firms. But you MAY have it. You have a different opinion on I just believe that it should be done. 1, 1, Entity rather than spent every all of the place Thank Thank Counselor conserving. Thank you. MADAM Chair and so we've come because I think I've heard him mention a couple times exchange over the past few minutes. Is that there's kind competing interests here and that there's multiple goals, all to speak for myself. But I think it's safe to say for investigating committee. Our goal is pretty clear. You can look at the general resolution to figure that out and I would hope that the administration is gold also be in line with that and that is if there's a culture of sexual harassment, we're going to root it out. We're going to create an atmosphere where people feel safe. I come to work. And if there has passed few cents. That that be brought to life. And hope that's the city's goal to yes, it's survey. Thank you, counselor. Other comments council Nielsen. I think are currently I know we were we've been talking a lot about. Sharing of information and e-mails other any other. Methods of communication that. Text messages. I know some city employees have 2 different phones. There's teams like. You know, e-mails these days not comprehensive. Obviously how we communicate. So as is has that been engaged at all? What community update us on that as well? Yes, to the extent a mobile devices or other ports communication other than are electronic forms, I've been email well into this and or when working Fisher Phillips on that. To the extent there were cell phones and all those together, would be part of the document dump. Yes. Of course, period. Other comments or questions answers. Just for our our council is it possible for the interim investigative report to include the exact number of search terms and even a list of what those are very good. I think that was the last thing that I had counselors, any other comments for the good of the cars here. Again, MISS Ellis, MR. Wheeler, thank you so much for joining us this evening. Seeing no other comments or questions. We are Thank else here? I Find those searchers.