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Good evening. Today is JUNE the. Cent and welcome to the public Safety and Criminal Justice Committee. We will begin with introductions to my left. Thank you, MADAM My name is Michael representing District 20. Thank you. MADAM Chair, Josh Thing District. 21, thank you. MADAM Chair Paul in a district. 22. Thank you. MADAM Chair, Brian Mowery District. 25. Good evening. CHAIRWOMAN Allen Crystal Wells District. 11 West Side. Thank you. MADAM Chair, Bree and Illini District. 2. Thank you. MADAM Chair didn't boots District 3, Lawrence, Washington townships. Thank you. MADAM Chair, Dr Carlos Perkins District 6. Thanks, MADAM Chair. Good evening, everyone. Keith Graves, District 9 on the side. Thank you. MADAM Chair, Frank miscarriages, strict 19

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southeast side. And we do have a special guest with us tonight. Thank you. MADAM Chair, Maggie Lewis, District 5, thank you, everyone. And I am counts there. CHAIRWOMAN Counts, the Renee Allen District 15, the far East side. The first proposal that we have on the agenda is put proposal. 3.75 appoints and insurance to the juvenile Detention Center advisory board had they arrive. MADAM Chair. Evan is looking for a spot to park right now. I just talked to on the phone. He'll be in here and momentarily. So we move this to the bottom of the agenda. Thank you. Okay. Thank you. We will move. We would revisit that proposal when he arrives. Then we just walking to stopping. Have you to perfect time you. I come on the way to make a grand What do you think? Apologies for my

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lateness. Turns out that you. Not going turn right on red any more. That's that's one must go. And I'm here to be appointed to juvenile Detention Center board. Does any councilors any comments or questions? Thank you very much, MADAM Chair. I just wanted to thank MR. Sharon, for his service to the civilian police complaint board over the last several years and his willingness interest continuing his service to the city through the juvenile Detention Center Advisory board. Thank you very much. Thank you. Thank MADAM Chair, thanks for your interest and your willingness to take on this role. A lot of coverage of announcing a lot. A lot of the conversations today. Can you tell me why you would be interested in? Taking on this role? Worked in the last number of years corporate

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consulting coming and organizations finding points of inefficiency, funding opportunities for improvement and then working with people within an organization too, resolve those or improve those points. I it can't be overstated. How important? Juveniles are they? It's cliche to say that young people in the future. But that's exactly who they are. And when we have. Young people who are struggling, young people who are distress and people who often come from very disadvantageous backgrounds. And then counted the justice system. I think it is in many times in many cases, the last effort. To turn a young person who is experiencing problems and who is causing problems into a

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productive successful member of society. And so. I really would relish the opportunity to bring that experience. I have in organizational management in. Process improvement and consulting with the private sector and occasionally with the public sector to bring it to a mission that is so important, too. Our communities, our families. Society at large. Thanks for that. Really appreciate Looks like you've spent some time in the military. It's thank you for your service. There. My only comment I want to encourage you to consider alternatives to detention for you. Thank you. I think that's absolutely a good idea. Yeah. Locking somebody up should be the very last. The very last resort. Thank you, MADAM Chair, I guess the final say. Ditto to counselor and counselor.

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Graves question was they were going to MR. Sharon, to LeBron on been quite a bit of time on the police says a police complaint. Gordon I think he was one of the only they got all of his training hours done consistently. So for that, I thank you because that was a had was and has been a pain point for that board. And I can't I appreciate that. You took that time. So that dedication these men to believe you're going to great things on this next port. So thank you for your willingness serve. Thank you. Are there any more questions from the counselors? I have a comment. I do think that our youth are our future. And as counselor Graves mention, I would love for us to look at preventative measures versus, you know, because that's where star said providing that preventative, you know, care and treatment and to, you know, instead he

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waited to intervention because we have to realize sometimes these kids have are ready. Already experienced some things, right. And so I think just be proactive in looking at those prevention measures would be very important as we move forward. I would like entertain a motion move a second. Motion motion has been properly moved and second for proposal, number. 3.75, all those in favor signal by saying those opposed. Motion carries. Thank you. Thank you so much for this I look forward to doing what I can to help our That's going Thank you. The next proposal on the agenda is one 87 appoints the let Alexis Hatcher to the juvenile detention Center advisory board issue here. Good evening. Thank you for

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having me here today. Alexis tattered. Hi, MISS Would you like tell us why you like to be appointed to the juvenile detention. The Pfizer board? Yes, absolutely. So for a number of years now, I've worked directly with youth and took the child welfare system in my current role I represent using that involved in the child welfare system. Day today. I see just how youth are impacted by the services that we have for them, both in the community and also within the juvenile welfare system. I work more closely with youth who are involved on the side of things. But many of my youth are duly involved. So they have both d c s involvement and juvenile

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detention or juvenile delinquency involvement. And so I've had the opportunity to work closely with juvenile public defenders as well and in in representing our youth, making sure that and not only their voices heard, but also that their rights are adequately represented in and out of the courtroom. And being involved in the system. I know that the impact that being involved news and I have seen the ways in which we show up for use can. Propel them to do better and to work on their trauma and in their future. I. Would hope that my appointment on the board would be able to further assist youth in that way in making a brighter future for them. Thank you. MISS Hatcher. Are there any comments or questions from the

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counselors Casserly? Thank you. MADAM Chair in its wells now think deaths Alexis mishap. Your thank you so much for your willingness to serve your experience is incredible. And really your response. Spoke to me and I have worked with you for a long time. And that responses exactly what kids need. I think I think if there were I don't know if there are any youth here today, but I hope that resonated with them. And I look forward to supporting your appointment tonight. MADAM Chair, MADAM Clerk requests to be a co-sponsor. This proposal, police, thank you. Thank so much. CHAIRMAN Boots. Thank you, MADAM Chair, and thank you, Alexis, for your willingness to serve. Can you just tell us we appoint dozens of people to various boards. Most people have no

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idea what these boards are. What they do. Many of our council probably the same. So could you just give us a brief summary of what you see the juvenile detention center advisory boards function is you? So my understanding of it is on the board will work find ways to serve youth to best serve youth in the detention facility in Marion County looking at data. But also, you know, hearing real-life experience from that used to are impacted by the welfare system by the did the delinquency system on to hope to make a change or again, better support the use. I'm I know firsthand from working in the system that we're not always going to do it

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correctly or maybe the way that all youth would hope. But I I hope that the impact that I can have on the board is making sure that use are heard seen in a way that they feel it day to day if they have to be, unfortunately in these detention center. It with your experience with dcs men almost changing sides, if you will. What you learn from being with dcs and then what did you learn from a different perspective? What I learned story, no, just from child advocates. So what I learned first from being with dcs is the way that the agency, the Department of Child Services can help youth can serve youth and not only youth, but also their families. And so the the training that I received in that role really informed the

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way that I advocate for youth now because I know what is available to youth and I know what often is ignored by players in the system. And so I can use that that info and information that I have now to make sure that everything that is available to the youth in this system. Is actually utilized for them. Great. Thank you. Thank you. MADAM Chair. Thank Thank you for all your work and thank you for being a voice for the youth at the table. I like to entertain a motion on the second. Motion has been properly moved second for proposal when 87 2026, all those in favor I forgot to go back. So sorry. Are there any public comments? I apologize. Are there any public comments?

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We need to read the well, the most before we open Florida public comments we would like remind committee members and the public of a few ground rules so everyone can have a fair chance to speak and be heard. It is important that we each observe the following rules first, each speaker will be limited to 2 minutes. Second, any public comments most recently relate to the agenda item under consideration. 3rd speakers who stray from the item under consideration because unduly repetitious MAY be asked to move to the next point, conclude their comments. Finally attendees will cause disruptions to prevent the committee from proceeding through to nice agenda in a recent u fiction manner will

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be removed. Please remember, sometimes Titans speech or incitement to violence are not protected by the First Amendment at all. We would deal with those issues if they come up and you don't think they will. Now, MADAM Chair Committee member asked for consent to that these rules we can proceed with public must thank you. Thank you. You my Percy. Can you state your name count of words the Far East Side resident leader and I do agree with the last 2 speakers when it comes to dcs and punishment for you. I was a foster myself growing up in the system? I had good foster parents, but I did see that a lot of you slide through the cracks. And it can lead to. Not really. A good life around that time. It's a time when you're caught fire self around

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age. I see a lot of patterns. Well out of my foster brothers people in a foster care. They have a sense of abandonment. And they don't know how to cope with that. So when it comes to do it now, usually if some kids are not cooperate in the homes they fought so boys girls home they will leave themselves back to juvenile is kind of like a sentence. Don't think government spirit someone who was in boy's home and seen people came out. The system relies that's like a. I'm not a closed chapter. And now live and I just encourage the council when it comes to these things where the topics we talk about tonight Move away from the first speaker said not more so the tension as the final solution by what I think is that covers prevent it from happening. I earlier. As a player and that we see what things are lacked in the

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system. And there's trauma is 20 kids a case overloaded. So don't forget few kids in the system. Avatar case worker case. Just left out on as we were in a case that's in the last 6 months. We want 5 years because our case was not adequate. Her job. So watch encourage that should be looking more into said the tension of what is happening before that point because I think that's always been missed. People react off the most has been on rise. And what is the environment is creating that at the Thank you. Are there any more public comments? Now? And I would like to entertain a motion move it. The motion has been properly moved. Second for proposal, one 87, all those in favor signal signal by saying

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aye, I those opposed. Motion carried. Thank you for your hardware. Thank you council thing. We will move on to proposal number one, 88, 2026 approves an additional appropriate Haitian. Totally 175,000 and the 226 budget of the Indianapolis Metropolitan Police Department. For the purpose of funding the final payment of the impd these 2021 vehicle financing agreement. Are there any comments? Comments or questions from any counselors? Outside. You can speak to this to I'm okay with the get into the Senate. So yes, Ma'm. Good evening. MADAM Members of the council. I am Kevin Weddington of the deputy chief for finance and administration for the police department. I'm here, as you said, requesting an additional

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appropriation of $875,000 to prepay a financing agreement that we have that we took in 2021. To buy an allotment of 300 police It's due to pay off. There's one installment due in 2027. This would be used in 2026. 2 payoff that obligation and allow us to enter into a new financing agreement for another shot of vehicles. I can answer any other questions in detail. Heading good visit That's a MR. Weatherill my office How many cars versus SUVs and a lot of the small departments going SUVs. Are you doing? Cars is curious. So in 2019, Ford quit making the Ford interceptor sedan. That's what we were using as our primary vehicle. We in Twenty-twenty

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we switched to the Dodge Charger. Unfortunately, they discontinue that in 2023. So as of today, the ability is a Dodge Durango. A Ford Interceptor utility a Chevy Tahoe, where Chevy pickup truck are the 4 pursuit rated vehicles. There are no sedans. Dodge is supposed to be coming out with one later this year. That's been promised for 2 years. But we're still waiting. So unfortunately, we had to move to a more expensive platform, which is the Durango other agencies around the county surrounding use the Tahoe, predominantly. But we found that it's too large for inner city policing the alleys and smaller streets. So we went with the Dodge Durango. Council will MADAM Chair. I appreciate And he's deputy chief. Okay. Thank

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you. Deputy chief thank you so much for bringing this forward. I think it makes sense to go ahead. Balance cash that out and move forward last night in the administration and finance committee. There is some talk about, you know, impd officer recruitment and retention. I think this motion well, not only provide operational vehicles, but also, you know, help with attraction, retention and then recruiting really great officers to the impd. So I will be voting in favor tonight. MADAM Chair, thank you. PRESIDENT Luis, thank you. MADAM Chair. Was a publicly thank you to the

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controller. The administration working with council leadership to ensure that this was part of the spring school. My question to you this evening is will you all be coming back 4 additional funding for cars will be a part of the 2027 budget process. If you could talk through that a little bit, that would be helpful. I I'm not sure that there's going to be additional in 2026, I can say that an rv, one submission for 2027 budget. We did not make and ask for vehicles. There was a lot of conversation with the controller's office, our budget analyst or budget manager is here our budget budget manager is here. They know that it's a need for us for 2027. As of right now, they're trying to identify funding. So as of right now, there is no asking 20 27th

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budget for harsh, but there is a need for cars and 20 27. Absolutely. If is not in the budget for 2027, they will. Through this process again and 20 plant this spring of 2027. Is that correct? If that's all right. I know they're trying to find funding. I'm sure couple up with our cfi is want to make sure I got the time, right? So if we do not, is that okay? MADAM Chair? Yes, I just want to make sure I understand it. The and that the timing. So again, if it's not in the 2027 budget that we're preparing for now, there will be doing this same process again in 2027. We welcome back and asked for additional appropriation for cars if we don't do it. Like it. It's like this ongoing cycle of life. Yes, potentially. So if it goes as

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a unfunded budget request and there's still a need for vehicles and 27, then, yes, they could. It could become, again, a part of the spring to school for 27. Thank you. Thank you, sir. Thank you. MADAM Chair. Thank you, Kat. Counts far? Good memory think so. Yeah, I I share a lot of the same sentiments as counselor lows. Retain minutes and recruitment side of think it's it's really important. But one of the pieces with that is I think I heard you say You'll pay off police, but you're going into a new lease. So you are selecting some new vehicles. I was recently in a vehicle with an officer for a positive And I was asking his questions about like what you like about the car, like, what are you know, like what would you change know that we're

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having these discussions last year and they're coming up. And I mean, they're going into detail on like where the gear shift. Isn't all these other sorts things I wouldn't think about, you know, sitting here, let's that would have had that conversation. So what I'm curious to know is, well, it's very important retain improvement, we're getting the wrong vehicles because we didn't take into consideration what their needs are. That will help that much. And I asked to you is have we gone through those sorts of exercises, understand the needs of the officers as well you know, the skill of our our budget and find that middle ground of how can we help them to be the most successful for the job? But knowing is what we talk about all last year that this is their office,

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right? We said a dozen times making sure they've got, you know, the best preparations to do the job. So they're a lot of things would like to do budget just don't allow for when we started this vehicle replacement plan with the controller's office in 2020, we were buying police cars, sedans for right at $23,000. That was a sedan. We just went out to purchasing. Got back. And we are now under contract the price for a new Durango is now 40,000 when you look at a Chevy Tahoe everybody would love to gas efficiency is much less, much larger vehicle. Year to $55,000 number there. That's about 50,000 for a pickup truck. The Ford suv is

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about $5,000. More than the Durango. So it happens that we purchase that we purchase the lowest priced vehicle. But it's quite frankly, the only option now police fleet vehicles it is a very effective vehicle. We have. We have the 10 that we bought previously. And then we've started to deploying the ones that we bought last year. I have not had one person who was dissatisfied with that. Everyone loves a obviously that's larger. Easier to get in and out of the features on at the new the new screen for visibility for navigation and everything else. The features that are built into it. We've

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had no one block it. What we're buying. But one follow-up question, MR. So knowing that it's going to cost more vehicles just naturally right appreciation. We're going to pay off some that with the dollar 75? It's going to open up check for you. But how much are you closing off mean how much more we for the new And a cheat sheet so when we took that contract in 2021, it was for 9.1 million based on the cost of the cars up fitting them, outfitting them. We got 300 vehicles per unit price of about 31 5, fully loaded. That same. And that was it a one percent interest rate Pre-covid or were post-covid

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actually was. 21. The latest we're expecting the interest rate to be in the 3 and a half to 4 range. So we're going to lose some money there. But the cost per vehicle fully loaded. We're anticipating to be at 43 7. See if you take that same 9.1 It will buy us about 200 vehicles, whereas AUGUST 305 years ago. So that's what we hope to Go out to open financing through the Bonn Bank. They help us with open market financing. And we're we're expecting it to buy about 200 vehicles. It why there's an expectation to come back again and 27 to make that 100 car difference. It even more than the 100 part of France? It's more than that so if there's a back story to

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that we created a a plan for vehicle replacement 2 or 3 controller to go. We came up with this plan that we were going to do a 6 year replacement plan, use vehicles, primary service vehicles for 6 years. Necessitating 300 per year. So the idea was with 3, 3, controllers ago to take out one loan at a time stack those. And then as the oldest one paid off, that would be year Seven's Harmony. So effectively we're paying off your 7 early this year and using next year's money this year. We also didn't get any car money and 24 or an 26. So. We're playing catch up to what the plan was because of Senate Bill one and other changes that this money is certainly appreciated and certainly

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helpful, but it's not the end of the story. Catherine, a thank you very much. MADAM Chair achieve Wetherington. Hope we don't lose you to a car dealership. It's paying quite quite a lot of looking into this matter. This is a pretty basic proposal tonight, but I just think it's very important to reiterate the very important representation. And that is here, which is the department has really come a long way with respect to its fleet. And I particularly want to commend former Chief Bailey for the work that he put in. The folks in his command staff. Certainly now Chief Terry. And it's so important as we all know, deputies Wellington knows this as well as anybody that we don't lose

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forward progress or momentum. And so I hope that as we work with the controller in our next budget and nest next, fiscal that as we're looking for money or not playing searching for Easter eggs type of. Budget that we're really being conscientious of its not finding it. It's allocating it. I wanted to bring to your attention some coppers on social media put. You might seen this. The old 1980's Ipd logo or color scheme on the new vehicles on just a city councilor. So I I got nothing to say about that other than it looked awfully snazzy. So I just want to bring that your attention. Thank you. If so, counselor, if I I love that

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And one member of my command staff and it was topic of conversation at Chiefs staff yesterday. Counterpoint to that is state police just as he'd up their cars just continued to color. So now they don't know what they're going to do. So white is never going away. Well, at least it might be as a representation. And the Chiefs new Conference room, thank you. Thank you. Are. CHAIRMAN Thank you, MADAM Chair. I I want to asked one question, but I do have some comments. Let me start with a comment to say I'm absolutely 100% supportive police department. And I need to say that because whenever there is any hard direct questions,

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then there's a tendency to question the support for the police department's I need to. I need to be clear on that. I want follow up with kind of a line of question that MADAM PRESIDENT started with. But if you know that there is a need in 2027 and we've been in the process of having conversations about 27 2027 budget. But the plan is not to include this vehicle need in the 2027 budget. Part of by challenge with impd is that we have no clear idea of the overall budget of impd. Because every time we have a the special appropriation, there's something else that impd comes back and ask for as a part of appropriation. You made it clear tonight that you

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know that there's a need. But it's not being included in 2027 budget. So we'll come back in the spring of next year to have this conversation again. And I think that's problematic for me and for the community that in a few minutes we will have a conversation my colleague, one of my colleagues suggested cut in resources for department that's addressed root causes in our community. But we have 0 conversation about the repetitive request that we get from impd. That's not included in the overall budget. That's problematic. Want us to really sit on that on to say if you know that there's a projected need in 2027, why are we not having that conversation now has been negotiated with the administration and the council in the budget for the coming

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year. This is my question. My question is how many vehicles that you have a new fleet for impd. What is the need? And what's the average age of the vehicles in the I can. Tell you most of our fleet, my sleep. I done this now for 14 years various levels managing the fleet. Consistently for the last decade we carry about 2300 vehicles in our fleet. Now, the the confusing part is that vehicle is anything that has maintenance requires gasoline or has a license plate. So the speed limit traffic signal, signs or vehicle right? The swat team equipment, the eoj equipment, golf carts, boats, everything that we have within the police department to provide service is counted as a vehicle. So

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the next problem is that if anyone reaches out to flee services and I know some of you were some have Fleet services would tell you that we have 2600 vehicles and there's a Delta of 300 that Delta of 300 is fleet services data stale. Vehicles that have been sold are still active on their system. We don't control their We tell them to take it off. But they're still don't cost us anything. But it gives an inappropriate picture of what we have the other problem this week. Services counts a gas card assigned for travel as a vehicle or as a unit. So if you ever hear the number, 2600, that's wrong. 2300 is what I will defend and explain the why I have a breakdown. Very much of of what those

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are. But when we get into actual vehicles that matter, there's 2 categories of either a pursuit rated vehicle be marked or unmarked, or a detective or administrative vehicle. Detective or administrative vehicle could be an undercover vehicle where it could be a Ford Fusion that the chaplain drives and everything in between first is the pursuit rated could be a canine officer. It could be a street patrol officer. It could be me. Those are pursuit rated vehicles. When we talk about pursuit rated detective an administrative vehicles we have right at 2000 pursuit rated and detective were administrative vehicles. And that that gets a little. Confusing. We have 1400 police officers use round numbers. We have 1400 police officers and another roughly 100 park

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Rangers reserve officers and people who drive cars. So there's about 1500 folks with Karsh. Any one time we average about 10% of our fleet is in the shop. Be it at a dealership for warranty work or fleet services. So we have on average about 200 cars, 150 to 200 cars that are down for service and then from there, we have cars that are new sitting on the lot being built to be assigned out. So those are in our numbers, but they haven't been issued yet. And then to counter the 150 to 200 cars that are in for service. We have to have that number for loaner cars on the backside of that. So that's

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where the 1500 of staff equals the 2000 for vehicles. All right. So at any given point, you need 1500 vehicles when you have 2000. That's not what I said. Okay. I just this last question for parity. So help me again. So we have 1500 staff members with an assigned vehicle. Okay. So there's 1500 of the 2000 between 150 to 200 are always in the shop at one given time. So that takes us up to 1700. Let's say. Those 150 to 200 that are in the shop. Those officers have to have another vehicle to drive while their cars in the shop. So there's another 200. Than count about 100 that are awaiting assignment to people

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that are in our shop being built out to be a sign to police officers. So we're average fleet of 2000. For the 1500 staff. The fund. That's what I said. Ok, I misunderstood your question to say that we only need 1500 funnels. I thought that your question. So at this point, the final question that I had was what is the need is a need currently being met. So this fiscal today is what the controller has. The means to pay gets U.S. 200 vehicles toward what we need. It is not all we need. We have vehicles in our fleet that are being driven, that we should not be repairing, but we are repairing them because we don't have enough Karsh. So

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the maintenance costs grow exponentially as the car gets older in the mileage gets higher. But if we don't have a plan with cars on the horizon that we know they're coming. We continue fixing old older cars that we shouldn't be. So the need is greater than 200. We fallen off a replacement plan we missed. 24, we missed. 26. We did half and 25. By numbers were 7.50, in the hole in this 200 would help. We'll take as many as we can get. But to your earlier point. Our budget asks are guided. By the controllers directions. PRESIDENT Lewis to castle grounds. Thank MADAM Chair,

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about a month and a half ago or a group of counselors are bipartisan group of counselors down and have a conversation about how do we support law enforcement in a meaningful way recognize in that law enforcement should not be partisan. One of the takeaways was we feel like there's not a plan that we as counselors can look at that can help guide the conversation. Dpw has a plan that we all can look at and it talks about what happens in 2026. 27 so on and so forth. My suggestion to you that I'm just one of 25 members of the City County Council. If there's a plan, can you get it to us updated where we know what your infrastructure you need to. I would share car repair process. Looks like have new vehicle to all all the things. Right. So there's one document

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that you can get to all of us so that we can reference So we are not feeling like we're doing like this when it comes to the tools that you need to be successful. So again, just a suggestion recommendation do with it whenever you want. I think it would help we could have something like that to guide our our conversations in our direction and our and our decisions. Thank you. Chief of Staff Bailey and Chief Terry and I met to soon after that meeting prior to that meeting, we had had a previous meeting with a service provider and we are engaging one of our existing service providers to put together that plan for We were specifically focusing on and are specifically focusing

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on the capital side of things. We have this vehicle replacement plan. It was it was built in 2019. It was built within the controller's office. I'm not sure that was shared with this body. I'm I've built my own visual of it. But we've been working off of that play sheet since 2020, unfortunately with Senate Bill one. It torpedoed what the plan was. But we are working on the capital side of things after that Thank you so much. Thank you. Can Thanks, Chair, deputy thanks for the responses. Key to little bit about the repurpose or resell planned. You guys have as a part of the vehicle replacement overall picture

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and is that a revenue driver that can impact the kind resources you need from us? So it's not really a revenue source. We we figure the auction salvage costs in. It does come back to our fund it. We fixed that with counsel. 10 or 15 years ago. Thankfully. So all money from crashes from disposal comeback to the I am pt Cruiser Fund so that revenue goes back into the dedicated fund that is being used to pay this debt. So that's how we buy new cars. When it comes to selling Yes, we soak harsh. Typically we will drive them until they have very little value. We will of the not pursue type vehicles undercover vehicles as a car gets older, it it

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works well in certain. Roles of to blend into neighborhoods. So we keep cars rather than selling those at auction. The cars that are former police cars. The market used to be very good for Crown Victorias. Crown victorias were tanks. You could take them apart and put them back together. The new type of police cars. We have both the interceptor in the Chargers and the during goes when they're involved in crashes that crumple, they're far better passenger safety. Are destroyed when we crashed We total out far larger numbers of cars today than what we ever used to because of the way we used to put cars back together with other pieces. These we we were seeing so much damage by trying the pursuit stopping, met the

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method, the pit maneuver. We were doing more damage to that cars. So we had to stop doing it with certain cars. So the resale value we get on average about $500 for scrap when we send a card to the South, a charred and we get on average about $2500 on a pursuit car. And that money all goes back into our fund. Thank you, leader Thank Want to have to you PRESIDENT Lewis is saying with the plan in place and I understand you want, everyone mentions that torpedo. This tour part. I get that, Frank. I'm getting all tired of hearing because we get it and my problem with that statement, though, is that I can get isd and ask them for

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their plan and they have it in tact. I mean, I could ask chief more on what's going to happen in 2029. And you exactly what's going to be where it's going to be even with us one. So what was worse? I would hope we can kind of get away from this narrative of St. One. It's here. It's not going anywhere. We've got to deal with it. Let's move forward. And then further. So my understanding is the reason you did not ask for 2027. The cars is because the controller said not to put that into the budget. Is that kind of what you're saying or did I misunderstand that? But something like what I said? Well, then my message to the controller says she's watching and she is a native of her staff. And here's quick screen with your budget. We know you're gonna come back and asked. We know we're going to pass it, quit screaming with it. Let us put it in the

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budget. Let's get it passed and get ready for next year. I don't think these need to continue to happen. I think we're all kind of on the same page here that with this site that if you're going to ask for any way wives do it and budget season when it should be done. So to to the controller. Please spring with the budget. Let them do their asked as we got past a way for the Spring. Thank you. Thank you, Catherine. A well. I think later Maori just said something rather important was actually a point I was going to make after my good friend Doctor Perkins made his comments about these additional for schools, not having a great idea,

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particularly with impd. And I do think that it should be asked from this committee and this body is it really I amputees fall or all of their fall and what responsibility as does our control or and the administration have and the way that they work on budgets. We know as a council, we have our own budgets. We know that what we ask for isn't always baked into the equation. Exactly how we ask for it. So it would be interesting to have the control or on her own come before appropriate committee outside of just the budget and better understand why the practices that are deployed are deployed because obviously they are not viewed. Very favorably by many members of this body. Thank you.

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Cancer heart. Thank you, MADAM Chair and I don't want join the end of the finance committee just because I'm not a member. But last night had pleasure to join as a guest for some other reasons. But had the opportunity sit through the spring fiscal review from the controller. And it was actually interesting during that presentation the there's multiple components of this spring for school. One is public safety dollars and those dollars being spent right now. There's about 15, well, at least is what we're being told last night in the committee. It is about 15.1 million dollars towards that that we receive for public safety purposes. That I had no expenditure towards it. So I mean, I find it to be interesting. I think it's something I want to make sure the members of this body know. I just have the option to use

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it in. But there as of today, 15.1 million, allegation from the Supplemental Income tax Thank you. Cas their bank. Thank you. MADAM Chair. Just want to keep little bit off of what councilor Renee said, which is I don't really view this spring for school method of funding recurring expenses as ideal. I want to put words in 90's mouth. I don't think they view as ideal either. All read between the lines of what the deputy chief was saying is that it's pretty clear the controller's office gives them a box that they have to stay within and vehicles were not included in the I think it's important to begin. Keep reiterating that this council

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does not have to rubber stamp. The budget gets introduced to us. Every one of us has the ability to offer whatever amendments we want to offer the butter. I think at least in my 6 years there's only been 2 counselors that have tried to do that. Thank you. Any other councilors get any questions or comments? This PRESIDENT? Thank you. MADAM Chair. I promise to go after this last statement. We asked the our cfo to clarify that comments regarding the money that was held back my understanding. We held money back to offset the dollars that we're losing regarding the gas tax writes, 3.7 million and the money that was being held back was in the reserves and not deserving character can you walk us

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through that? So the funds that counselor her is referring to as the public safety supplemental, those funds are accounted So part of it is for They didn't get the safer grant and the other parts of it are for the seat to cba is that we that we passed approved. Our guests accepted a fiscal impact statement for for the public defenders. I believe and also for me, sir. So a lot of those funds are already said they are counted yet. We just did just we're not out them appropriate him until the fall. But they have. They are tech companies account for thank you. Thank you. Madam Chair. Thank you. Many of the council said in comments or questions. Now we're going to move to public comment. Is there anyone from the public that would like to speak to

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propose a one 88? I would like entertain a motion. So moved. Motion has been properly moved and seconded for proposal. Number one, 88 of those in favor signal by saying aye, those oppose. Motion carries. Thank you. Thank you. We will move on to that next proposal. Number 1, 8, 9, 2000. And 26, a man section 3, 8, 1, dash, 103, of the code to require the curfew ordinance. Anyone 17 years of age and be live. Councilor heart. I'm happy explain. Yes. All right. So there's an amendment on this for just to make sure the language was clear in the

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original language. It says age 17 and under which inadvertently included anybody younger than 15 as well. And that wasn't the intent. The intent was to just make sure that we're including Juvenile's age 17, along with 15 16 and that's what the amendment does. It cleans it up to make sure that we're adding. Children aged 17 to the public safety curfew hours. And so the reason that I'm proposing this idea is like I said dozens of times. I don't just sit around thinking, could it become disrupted the council? But it somebody reached out to me. It was a a group attorneys know the city very well that have connections in an impd officer actually walked over, presented this idea to them after we passed what we passed in MAY and he said from his

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experience as an officer that. He believes that there is a gap by us leaving out age 17 in the public safety hours. And that made its way back to me. I started doing a little bit research on my own and I just started reading some news articles and it astounding to me. It was that. We had a similar conversation last year about this and it was removed from the floor during full Council. It wasn't. But 6 months later or less in JANUARY. Of this year, the first homicide victim of 2026. Was a 17 year-old. At 12:30am. On the near side of Indianapolis. And so after I heard read that story. I heard, you know, the concerns of the officers that made to me my better judgment said it

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just makes sense to include that age. If we're going to look at juveniles, we need to look at all juveniles from early in the fact that a 17 year-old can equally be a victim just like the 16 year-old and a 15 year-old, you know, personally speaking, I have a 16 year-old in right there not too far off from 17 in it. It's not going to change a whole lot and I just want to know, just want to make sure. As a body we have this ability to make public safety curfew hours that we are listening to the experts, that's where this idea came back from. You know, we're looking at history of what's happening even just this year. And and we're making the best case scenario possible for our city and inforcement. And so that's why I've got the propose on for Today is to ad

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age 17 into the public are few hours. So they're the same as juveniles aged 15, 16. Thank you, MADAM Chair and thank you, counselor heart for your work and critical thinking in coming back because this isn't something that should have really gotten by us. Because like you, I have a 16 year-old as well MAY hang out together. So to me, it doesn't make sense. It's you got to have that 18 year-old threshold to thank you to the officer who also spoke out about that as well. I do know though 17 year-old kids who are making it on their own, who don't have stability in you know, covering all their own expenses. So I want them to know that if you're working, if your church find that safe

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space, you, you know, go to work, do what you need to We're not necessarily talking to you on this curfew, but thank you again, too. My colleague across the aisle for taking a harder look at this proposal when many of us myself included considered it to be a done deal. Thank you. MADAM Chair. Thank you. MADAM I will not be supporting this proposal tonight. We wrestled with this a year in this council and on the floor decided to exclude a 17 year olds. And so I want to state a couple of things. One that there's still covered on the curfew hours of looking at. Tempted 3.81 here. 3, 2, one dash, 101. That's 7, 15, 16 17 year-olds are covered under that curfew. It is a public safety hours that we're talking about. And as from my

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own personal experience, I left home the day after my 17th birthday to add 4 and a half hours away to go to college I happen to have a 17 year-old home. That is getting ready to go to college and less than a year and a half. And I think that as we think about responsibility and our young adults, I don't believe that they need to be covered under the new public safety curfew hours. Also safe. We're going to have a real conversation around what's really cause violence in our community. Let's have a conversation about the availability of guns and weapons and this try to do something about that and not

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try to. Always come down on our young people without really haven't on on the stand about them. And so asked my colleagues not to support this tonight, but I'll be voting against Thank you. Thank you very MADAM Chair, Cancer Heart. Thank you for bringing this to the committee. Also nothing counselor Perkins for his comments as well when this originally was discussed. I think the counselors are responding to a an event or series events and unfolded in our city. And I believe that the time on the floor there was an amendment made and I think it might have been made by counselor Evans. And I think at the time he made some compelling reasons why the 17 year-olds might be excluded. I didn't happen to agree with

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that, but I could understand where he and others were coming from. I think a year later, however, many months later, it does make sense to add this into the proposal. And I think this is a work in progress. Counselor Perkins noted some additional conversations that are worth having an even being on the other side of the aisle. I agree that those conversations are worth having. But I just think it is important that when we heard from MISTER Sharon and the other lady that came before us. I apologize. And catcher was was the name. And we talked about not wanting to box and young people not wanting to do harm to them. And and using incarceration except Trez a

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last resort. I don't think we're talking about lock and 17 year-olds up in jail. I think the the point is that there is a set rules that are defined and I don't really necessarily want our chief of police to have to get up and way into what might end up being kind of a blue and red issue. But I just think it's important maybe from a political standpoint to maybe talk about what this would do, right. Officers are going to make contact with folks are going to right. Let folks make contact with parents and off base on this. I mean, we're not saying we're going to be throwing 17 year-olds in jail. And I I just think that's important because I think that there could be a perception

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that that we're doing harm that we're trying to incarcerate. And that is really not the objective or I think even the prep does. So chief, if you want to take stab at that, please do. If you don't. I trust me. I'm more than understand. Thank you. MADAM Chair. Yeah, I'm happy to talk about that. It's a status offense. Curfew is. I can also tell you that are primary objective is to address the underlying behavior and initiate those critical conversations with the parent or guardian part of curfew enforcement. The statute actually requires us to contact a parent parent or guardian through that process and certainly our goal is is not hey kids with criminal charges. Status offense. It's

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something that if we can't reach the responsible adult. Go intake for a short period until that adult can be contacted for picking up the kids. We also do have other resources at different times that we can look to depending on us or the situation and the circumstances I've mentioned before the the connection Center where we've partnered with other community based organizations to then provide resources and support to the use and the families to address any underlying issue issues that contributed to that use being out in the situation in which they came into contact with law enforcement. So the primary objective is definitely not arresting. It's really more about prevention and

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intervention. And as as a mother of 2.17, year-olds, what you're talking about would directly impact my family. And I have I have no concerns about That I support anything that aims at the keeping our kids safe. That encourages parental involvement and kids activities it's a 2 hour shift the curfew like we talked about before. And there's a number of and I know it's are you mentioned that there's a number of exceptions to the curfew statute that allow for. Any any kids that are returning to or from we're going to or from lawful employment school sanctioned activities, religious events. Emergency and involving serious bodily injury or substantial damage. First

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Amendment rights activities conducted by nonprofits or governmental agencies that provide recreation, education, training or other care under supervision of one or more adults. Or activity that's indoors by the parent with the parents prior written approval. And that's a pretty. Wide range things. And I think from my perspective as a parent a curfew that's at 11 o'clock or one in the morning. Either way to me, my responsibility as a parent is snow and indoors. The activity of my 2.17 year-olds that I'm responsible for what they're doing and what their whereabouts Set, those guardrails that those boundaries and hold my kids accountable, which I have already done this year. I have held them accountable when they fallen short I know there's some families that are

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in different situations. And that's also been a topic of of this council to support those families. And we do have resources within our community that are available. For families, you know, to be wrapped around with those services and that support. And there's some families that are in situations where that takes them away from. All the home and maybe they're working different hours. No scent. I've been through that and this line of work. I worked all different kinds of hours. And had to find a way and we have people to lean on. And so sometimes it takes a village, but that message needs to be planted in the seat of parents. And even if just 1, 1, out of 5, we've had 5 kids that are victims of homicides this year already. We're just

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started JUNE. One of 5 was out after curfew. And if parents can just think just plant the seed for a minute, what's my kid up to? Who are they with? What are they doing? How are they getting their? How are they getting home? What kind of people are they hanging out with? What kind of activities going to be happening at this location? We need to be curious. We need to be nosy and we need to be proactive in involved. And if the curfew prompts even one family to think about those questions as they're carrying out their their activities. To me, that's a at. It's just for your consideration. As a council, I've shared more than enough of my my personal perspective of that. And I do think that the common goal and the and the priority really needs to be keeping our kids safe and doing that in a

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number of different ways with curfew. Just just one aspect of it. Thank you very MADAM Chair. Just a follow-up chief. Thank you for your very clear and concise response to the question as well as both a professional and personal angle I will have any further questions for chief. And just so you know But I just wanted to make the point that my support of this is because I think originally it was a mistake not to have included in the first place. I think that since that time we can see where it would be who've this body to further included as cancer heart has been done. And this is not meant to be reactive or to be some form of punishment be to be proactive and try to bring the community together on a very important issue. And guess I do have a question since you came back to the podium. If I were a 17 year-old and I did made the stipulations that you listed contact is made with the

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Guardian or parent that that's not on a record or anything in there. Just you know. So I just think those types of things are important to understand that this is not meant to be a punishment or or to to pick it up and and ruin their life. It's meant to be proactive. Now with the young person chooses handle poorly that that's totally out of. Purview. But again, I think that this was a wise move. And again, thank you, counselor art for bringing this back to our attention. If you MADAM Chair. Thank you, chief or comments. And just to confirm a couple points before it make some comments status offense. There's not a criminal charge. Learn nothing whatsoever. Enters on the child's record.

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Not a criminal offense. An offense. That's a status offense because of the age of the child. And then secondly, that's the connection centers. If I recall the discussion summer. For for lack of a better term, some wraparound services are things where we're trying to help the family when they come in. With options are. Here's here's some ideas or something else. 2, so that we're not having repeat offenders. Is that accurate as well? That is accurate. Is that the goal is to address what's contributing to the activity or the behavior or the? Child being with somebody that maybe was not a good influence or maybe they didn't know parents to know where they were and it up coming into contact with us. But it it's really to support the family and whatever their needs are addressed. Whatever

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contributed to that situation. Sure. And if that opportunity, but that incident did not happen. It's possible they would never be exposed to that help. That's that's true. Possibility. Thank you. Just a couple comments of Army we all know guns are huge problem, unfortunately because of our super majority in the state house, they have tied our hands and even made it. City being civilly liable. Should we pass a law back? The ownership of a gun. So blame that on your colleagues in the state The my opinion, there's extensive exemptions to this. It is again, the I think it's a proactive protective measure. The idea that we're helping families. Real time in

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the situation. And when, you know, emotions are high. What just happened, why it happened? Here's something know, we can address that. I think that's very positive action. In my opinion, if this saves one child, it's So I vote yes. And encourage everybody to support as well. Thank you. MADAM Chair. Part of the discussion tonight and that occurred on the floor when the we passed it out of committee. With the 17 year-old included and the taking. The 17 year-old son did not come up until the full council meeting. And at the time Councilor Evans who proposed it talked a lot about freedom of 17 year-old and their maturity and remembering what it was like to be 17 at the time I agreed with him in voted for the proposal. But I think there have been a few incidents that have occurred

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this year that make me second guess that leaving 17 year-old out in just reiterating the importance of protecting our youth. Not necessarily as being the ones committing crimes with the ones being victims. Art is the point that concerns me the most. Additionally, as a lawyer, I think about ease of enforcement and including the 17 year-olds back in it to me it simplifies it a little bit because you you're just everybody's 2 hours earlier during this period and then it went and everybody goes back as opposed to having this ages here. This ages here, this is even this once here and in that part seemed kind of confusing to me, although. The other thing I wanted to say back to the Freedom point and and I have had this pulled up even before the chief mentioned that were the exemptions to the law. And there's quite a lengthy list.

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The chief, Fred, them all of reasons why you can be out after curfew votes of the ordinary law ordinance. Is written in such a way that it gives quite abroad. Specter of reasons that someone could be out past the curfew, but they're all. You know, sanction reasons, lawful reasons, things that hopefully wouldn't be causing trouble or be in a place where shouldn't be in. So I just want to encourage parents or anyone to know that there are there is a whole list of these exemptions and reasons why you can be out after curfew to let to try to let my colleagues know that it isn't all about curtailing their behavior. And I'm hopeful that the way that these are written, it's such a way that would provide for our 17, 16, 15 year-olds that might be at work are doing a

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religious thing that, you know, those are productive activities and we want to encourage that. Thank you, Madam Chair, and thank you, chief. Just a brief comment and I represent a very rural part of the county where there's not very much many pedestrian paths. Really think the only part of my district where people might be out walking with maybe the Marshall neighborhood. And whatever I've again haven't spoken to law enforce about this when the past couple weeks by did extensively last year when I spoke to patrol officers, I spoke to command staff. Everyone was unanimous. And if we see of patrol officer to seize someone driving and person looks like they might be 17. They're not going just pull him over and detained him on the share

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basis that we think that person looks like they're 17 and they're driving down the road being the speed limit following all traffic laws. There has to be some sort of extenuating circumstance that triggers. That initially. I think that's where this is very targeted and it's very pragmatic approach and appreciate a lot of the comments from counselors have looked at this and said this is an appropriate time to add 17. So look forward to supporting this tonight. I just wanted make a point that I think is worth reiterating that the counter boots noted a few moments ago that that if the ordinance for the 17 year-old is effect, that they might not introduced to some of these opportunities and services as well as the parents. And that always the case. But there's possibility and it's very important that that that is looked at as a

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positive as well because that that one interaction MAY change your lives. You know, I mean, who knows? And also want a counselor boots that I don't feel the need to blame our colleagues across Market Street because you're doing a great job that yourself. Thank you. I have questions chief here. We said Stas offense early years with this is that consider status offense. So I think one thing for me when I hear fence, I think criminal offense and it's going to be have a record. So if you make it comparative for something, you know, one thing big on, I know some sort big on us like if I don't fully understand it, how can I compare it to something else similar? So stas offenses comparable to what? I could if I parked the

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wrong way. Oh, yeah. Like a runaway like that's that's not a criminal charge either. It's a status offense. But criminal charges, something that if an adult committed it. It would be a crime. Said that if a juvenile commits its delinquent it. Thank you. Some of lawyers in the room help me if I'm I'm off base Thank Can I add another counselor days? Comments? We have intervened and some kids and the last couple of weeks with some curfew. Our attention was drawn to those kids because of activity and behavior and arrests were People who are with those kids for criminal charges gun related criminal charges. And we are proactively making referrals to the kids who were and in the company of those arrests tease that were out. After curfew hours. We're making those referrals to those

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resources after the fact. So I just wanted to make sure that. The council understands that it's not just about the enforcement, but it really is truly to try to make a difference intervention improvement. Future either. Injury, criminal activity or or whatever the case might But we are making those referrals. Thank you. MADAM Chair. I know we have another item on the agenda I realize I tried not to. Whenever here in this chamber. Personalizing this year, I try my very best not to. But as a black man. That race, 2 black children. That have a ferry, different experience. But law enforcement. I realize that we have in this conversation from

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2 very different framework. In a month and a half. My 17 year-old daughter. We'll leave home. And go off to college right here in the city. My wife and my travel, very frequent. The thought my 17 year-old daughter. Might be out. Probably will be out as a college student because when I was 17, I was out. The on 10, 11 o'clock at night. And that's a reason to get stopped by the police. With the frame in which approach this. It's scary to me as a parent. And as a black man. And so I just needed to the name that I'm gonna try not to personalize these things because understand that I'm not

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represent just my family. Representing my constituents and represented the city. But I realized that that's a very different from work them to my colleagues. Thank you. MADAM Chair. Thank Just comment for for committee. I won't be in support this amendment and I still think that there's room for a more comprehensive plan for use in our city. I just think that there is no real plan and that goes back to really focusing on. The true causes that are driving these young people, too. Hang out in droves in downtown Indianapolis. And my guess. Said its jobs. We need to figure out how to get them employed, how to get them involved. I think having responsibility I too, was a 17 year-old college student. So I

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understand how that would have restricted my movement. And at that point, my roommate would have been able to do things that I could do so probably I certainly not in support of this. Thank you. Okay. There's a couple things he's been saying. It. What I heard in said, let's talk to the experts. Talk to the kids. And what I what I costly do and what I've been doing even before becoming a counselor is I continue to communicate with those that are actually doing the work. To me. Those are experts. That's what we should be listening to. And our children have already said even at our last council meeting, they felt like that they did not have a voice. And we still pass the ordinace curfew. Secondly. I don't have

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a problem with impd right? Chief I love fact that if I caught Hicks, you paycheck at me. You immediately. Todd. In 2 seconds. And I appreciate that. I have no negative. And because I do think we need police officers when we need good police officers. But when we talk about the interaction of police and community, there is at negative. That's the air. And while it MAY ni, while we MAY not be locking them up and were built. You know, we put not these other things and plays we just don't know what negative action that will start with impd on top of what they MAY already be going through. To piggyback off a counselor. Perkins. Man, a black woman. I've even best

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that by impd Officer. Because I urged over some. It's MISS Something. Then the story and I had you had when I asked, why are you stopping me? They couldn't give me a reason. They just kept asking for my driver's license. And my registration all big. And then it toted to one of my mentor is when I start doing advocacy work and I hope this same situation to when my pastors, they were asked me, they said, where are you at? I was coming across. 38 them a half. The age I got home. I asked that because of the type of vehicle ahead planned church moves it that day. To be honest with you about what means that the d a and my friend. I remember she telling me you should tell them who you are. And I was like on that that matter who I was and who I was connected last saw was I was a black

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woman. And I guess that I didn't do anything And a matter of fact. He had a binge are going to see. You want to do a breathalyzer That was an uncomfortable for building from a ban. A black woman. And then I don't know if anybody has ever heard of a black male sit up and say. I'm scared of the police. That's real. So we have so why we can take in. This curfew has came up for many years even before us becoming counselors. For some reason. We continue to have this same conversation and apparently we must be missing. Mark. If we want our kids to be safe, we need to look at the solutions that actually were and curfew probably isn't

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just 8. We don't know the statistics that actually say curfew is working. And if we're going to be serious about this issue, arguing whether 16 or 70 or older should have a curfew is the wrong conversation. Let's figure out how to maximize assets like a parks in our communities basis to ensure they appeared with programming that can target those likely to commit an act of violence. This committee, our body has the power and responsibility to ensure that these dollars were invested. Are going into the right responses, splitting hairs about policies that don't have evidence of being effective. Aren't a good use a virus possibility that we so I would not be supporting this

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this amendment tonight and I encourage my colleagues to not support it as well. Does anybody have any more questions or concerns? Kelso Wells, thank you, MADAM Chair, and I appreciate your comments because kids do have voices they are at this table right now and that is missing. I know that kids don't make good choices. And I know kids have whips, but they also have years and we don't always guarantee they have good adults around them filling those years. Hearts and minds with good things and good ideas and good advice. And for that reason, I'll be in support of this tonight and it is my hope. At night. When there are firearms out in our streets in the dark our men and women. Who are sworn to protect those that are out and about. Amongst those things. I hope our children. Are months.

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The fray. Thank you. MADAM Chair. Yes, MADAM Chair, I move to amend proposal. One 89 2026 Biden leading language. It's trick adding language. It's underlined the added language is 17. The stricken language is and under 15 or 16 years of age and whether this provision is implemented any child, 17 years of age or under show remains subject to the. Revised code. 3, 1, 1, 1, I'm Do so, Piers, understand the motion has put on the floor. I wanted to make sure that we give audience a chance to speak. Is this a proposal that they could speak to? Yes, the okay. Okay. At this time I would like to put the the Amendment Aho to allow public

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testimony from audience. And those that would like to speak, speak to proposal one 89. Click ahead, canceled night to get. Just so that we're clear. I mean, I I think we should and I country like think we should vote on the amendment to that. Whatever is passed. Corrects the under 14 language, right? So even if you voted down, gets voted for Info Council. We have the proper language to vote on. Does that make series One of inquiry. Before we entertain the amendment. Doesn't the motion need to be on the full first? The motion live in the movie. Made a motion for this already. And second, it. And to my suggestion is you made a motion for made a motion moved in second. Yes. So that the conversation isn't about the amended proposal. So we don't have to worry about the under

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14 peace and and whatever's voted for gets tonight will be the amended if you vote for the amendment, the amended proposal so that we don't have to gets voted for in full count to without We will have to do this amendment again. Okay. So he meant, let's want to be clarity. So what we're about to vote on now is at the 14 eur into the is to take that part out to take that of so that the 14 year-old they're covered by a separate provision. And so this just doesn't cleanup of language and then you'll just be voting on or you'll be discussing the amended proposal. I don't think there's question about the 14 and under so this would just be to make sure that we're talking about the proper. The motion has been properly moved. And second, second it for the proposal.

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Number one, 89 of those in fate favor signal by saying Aye, I. Rocha. Think some of us it's still unclear. How we vote in on the for the amendment on the amendment. This is just on the amendment cleaning up to 49. What can we amend the motion that's not on note. Know motion that was on the floor was for the amended. I think counselor, MISS Pocan said for the propose did make a So what you are voting on the amendment with voting as you have in front of you so that when you discuss the proposal in a few minutes, you'll be discussing amended proposal. We I think we're still kind of confuse all and him and MAY and the proposal. So the proposal. The amendment you have in front of you front of you. Cleans up language. It

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says the original proposal was for 17 and under that includes 14 This is the same as any aid to others. How down amendment, correct? I'm sorry. The same process as any other amendment. We've done multiple the point. I don't think it's so much is about the same amendment. I think we're trying to understand the language that surround it and what we're trying to vote on it. If we're going to vote yea or nay. And I think that's the difference of what we're trying to come. You know, confused. I mean, where we confuse that. I think that's what we're trying to understand. The language the confusion comes in is the proposal is a man being the ordinance and asked driver to

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and seconded. Sorry, action that haven't asked prior they moved in second is moving on now. Quote, the corner office rules. You can read each you can write take about. She just called for a vote in clerk is going roll of sewing. Get to the vote. Now. Counts. Alan. Nay. Cason a I. House on the amendment. Kelso I councilor Delaney. Council Grace. Ne grades. Cancer, Heart How some scary Gary. I councilor I. House apartments. Perkins know. It's a Qatari on the amendment. Thank you, Claire. Now we would take. Comments public comments on proposed a one. 80 not as a as amended. Yes. And do we need to read

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this statement Okay. That's what the council to consider that. This is a not re political as a cultural difference is going on. What are you and I hear from all sides that recently I say my beard not grow back, but I was stopped as well as Few was. And was got tense because I'm 26 and I just clocked out from work are irritated. And once they found out that I was older, I apologize, sir. But I also want to say 17 euros like a lot many Com is that is like almost a substance that do good. Even back during the 60's where young men sent to fight. But I can vote that question came out in the back and as a culture reference. And there are other solutions than a curfew last year. I was in this room when we're talking about the curfew, was

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he was on the board. We left out. I mean, a solution for p 30 on the floor is nap was by having a community space for younger. Kids. Because now parenting is different. Most parents worked there said they were second save. Kids are now just on supervises. The trend has been star since the 70's and this is a growing trend that most kids do not have vision. No more. I think instead of says a curfew. We need to emphasize on our community leaders around the what spaces we can open for children out belly. Some of them could be run away. Might be trouble in the home was addressing. I think I'm the chief last year. The previous season's said want to. Can remember as if I see 2 kids playing outside, I'm going to call the police. He was I well, I'm not going to every

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house. The check was this kid. What these kids aside this showing that it can be a messy situation that we need better solutions to talk about these things. And what we did last year, we had a lock in for a lot of parents works. Last Yes, good evening. My name is Tory on Everett just a couple of comments regarding the chief's response to the questions from this council. I too want to start off with I am not against impd. I am not against our police force and laws and things like that. That is not where I'm coming from with my comments. I 17 at one point. And I get stop by the police and I was coming home from work. And it turned into and that being in

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handcuffs. That being multiple police cars that arrived. I was student body PRESIDENT. I was, you know, I the comic got made about kids not making right decisions. I was making the appropriate decisions. And when we look at our use, that MAY be out beyond curfew. And the comment is made about. You know, contact this made with that parent or guardian. In our nuclear family model that MAY work. However, and every single family that does not work. When we look at the fact that we have parents that MAY be working at 3rd shift that you can't get a hold of them. Where then and giving about this because it's it's something that's that's very critical. And our community, when you you start to look

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youth where maybe the you can't get ahold of that parent or guardian. Are they now sitting at the center on night? So that parent gets off work right to they can get that call answered. Urge this this by 2. Have the conversations and it's not about calling people out, but it's as getting to a point of calling people for us to have those conversations since. State. Your name, please. My name is Kent Moore. These remarks that I prepared were originally aimed at Prop 99. I'm gonna stretch to bounds of Jermaine a little better then some my Democratic colleagues MAY already got this in their e-mail. Much on the primary well liked. Woke up the next day. I found out that. My Democratic colleagues had

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essentially put use in jail, taken there some away for something that the head and then I that was where public you know, we supposed to be the party of? Taking care of the less fortunate. Let's say that we've got a 15 year-old son, news House video game gets up to No fish, no milk in the fridge. Legally. He can his bike down to the corner store gets improved. Milk. Mom said Job trying to make ends meet. So what do you get? You get a 15 year-old this upset. So unfortunate. And it's either disrespect. Reason. I've had the fortunate pleasure of being able to deal with me different communities stand with the wbs. Abrams was presentation skip it. Was

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shoulder bag goods. Numbers that workload for Juno involvement in the 1st quarter of 2026. 11% 28 patients and both juveniles compared to 7.3 and 1st quarter of 2025, might remember. Mark Twain said it Best. There's lies. Donald lies and statistics. Statistics is number. Those involved first over the total, there were 42 total home sites in 2025. Segment, there were 3 juveniles. See Brown, MADAM Chair Committee, thank you. It's my belief that when we look at the average 17 year-old as a father as a minister as the community serving as an educator, I recognize that many 17 year-old young man, black, white, Hispanic, Asian across the gamut. Are the adults in their household. They are responsible for little

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siblings as it to middle school. I can think of at least 10 students that are in my purview that are taking care of by their 17 year-old sibling. That is working hard to pass high school as well as take care of their families. And there is a deep mistrust in restriction. I don't think that trust is built through restriction or obstacle, but it is built relationship resource and opportunity. So I believe we have to work harder. We have to work overtime to pursue better opportunities for young people through mentorship, job opportunities, educational opportunities, trade opportunities and places for them to go to be stopped to 17. Well, oftentimes or has

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the ability to lead to uncomfortable and unnecessary interactions. And if I do not trust you, if I cannot trust that, I'll make it home safely. My anxiety can lead to a poor interaction that was not criminal at the beginning but could turn a criminal. And I think that if we really care for our community, we'll find and work harder to find better ways to invest. Then over curfew, over criminalization. Let's work harder. Let's work harder. The community's behind you to work harder. Hello again, Alexis, tattered. I understand that this amendment is sought with likely with positive intent. They do want to share small bits of my

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perspective as somebody working directly in this field. So law enforcement involvement even without direct placement, attention is harmful to children and families. We know that any involvement in the system even have seen a small from the outside still impose it imposes measurable trauma. New thing on families. I was just in the Marion County Detention facility last week and this amendment was being discussed by staff at the facility and they were worried about the number of children that it would add to their facility, even if are short time in the example that chief Cherry share Chief Terri shared I'm sorry if a youth is temporarily detained because parents aren't answering their phone and the child is taken

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to juvenile intake, which is at the detention facility. I will add, I'm dcs would then likely become involved, which adds another layer, layer of trauma to children and their families. As a lawyer working in this field. I can absolutely say that juvenile status offenses do appear on a juvenile delinquency record. While those records are generally kept confidential from the public, they are viewable by players in the system. So that includes probation, dcs and you've now judges and would show up on their record. It can be held against youth in the future. They are used to violate probation status. Fences are used to violate probation. They are shown and jt records

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that prosecutors and judges see and they are used to put kids and shelter facilities which are often times locked facilities, very similar to detention facilities. Status offenses can also be used to put kids in the d o c after a probation violation when the underlying offense is a status offense. So I do want the council to be aware of that information. I will also add that 17 year-olds are expected to begin if they haven't already working toward their independence and working toward adulthood, including 17 year-old in this curfew, will then mean that newly turned 18 year-old will be shell shocked. They will have the experience that they otherwise would have when they were 17. Thank you. Thank you. Thank you. Is there anyone else who wants to speak to propose a

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one 89? Any other councilors, any covenants questions? Ok? I would like to entertain a motion. MADAM Chair. I so move to send proposal one 2026 to the full council with best recommendation. The I am supposed to make a motion. He made the motion. We've got to Grow Co. I think we should take Rocha. Ok? Thank Council Alec Cao certain a councilor counts the votes. Kelso Wells. I Council Delaney, Counsel Grace Grace know. Councilor Heart. Council miscarry. Mass care. You know. And Mary, all Righ Council parkas. Perkins. No, thank you. Thank you. Now

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we will moved to propose a one 92,026 directs the city county to require changes to the Office of Public Health and Safety. That's what the audit completed by the Office of Audit and Performance. Is there anyone here to speak to proposal one 90? Think I'll be the one discuss the ripples and I'm sure. Inches directly. Merkley have some words to say. But this council. Heard me speak up more into the mic, please. Yeah, this is my proposals. Think you want me to. Explain why we've got it here today. Okay. Okay. Yes. So I've got pose a one 90 in front of mainly as a result of the audit that came to us. And we heard a little bit about last time in these chambers about a month ago. We heard the

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response to it. The audit came out about 2 months ago. That audit showed a lot of material weaknesses in the Office Health and Public Health and Safety. A really important deal to all of us because that is the office that really focuses on the most vulnerable population in Indianapolis, right? Folks who are experiencing homelessness, folks who are facing food insecurity, violent crime reduction programs, that those are things that are very important to us as a city. And the last thing I want to do is restrict dollars from that organization. But what I've learned over the years as we've passed other ordinances through this proposed to this council dating back to 2022.

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Little we've had. Arpa dollars which we've ordinance is to make sure that see it's coming from not just office but other offices within the mayor's administration to see the validity of what's happening. We had a really good opportunity 2022 3 to try out some different programs phs and result of the current director. Missed out on a lot of opportunities of some of that data. Even moving forward to last year where we had another example of that, we still weren't seeing what's working. What's not working? Where is the best use of our tax dollars? And we had as this council passed a it. Resolution that required the Office of Public Health and

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Safety to come back to us and report before we provided them with their spring fiscal money. So we've had a pattern to show that. If we need change out of mayor's administration office, we have to use the leverage that we have as a body, which is we control dollars of this city and we need to use that to our advantage. As stated. The last thing I want to do is remove the funding. But what I want to see is the opera, the operations of this office move smoothly swiftly officially nba maximum use of taxpayer dollars and what that audit showed us is that it does not do that today. What the director came back last month and told us is that they're working on it. And I'm very grateful that they're working on it. We have a letter that

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came the office of performance that shows some other work that is still continuing on through. But the state that is still looking into things that are auditor for is ours is still as as look through and found similar finding. So we've had multiple organizations find these some similarities in the material weaknesses of the organization. What we have to do as a body is make sure through our leverage that they are doing what they say they're going to do. And history has taught us it takes us. And last year was that history. Using the money has the leverage. So the intent here again is not take the money away, right? The goal is to use that to make sure that what they said they were going to do. Last month when they came here that they follow up and do it. And I'm glad that we have this letter today from Deputy Mayor Joyce that shows

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dated today right? I don't know that we would have got this letter today if I didn't have this proposal in front of us today. That is step in the right direction that we're seeing movement. But I want to make sure that we see the same standard of operations that we do and dpw a 09:00pm to get in sf all these organizations that use contractors that have vendors that have that have standard operating procedures. I want to just make sure that. This director came and told us they were going to do. Those are the sections in this in this document. I want to make sure those get done and we need to use the leverage that we have to get it done. And that's the purpose of this proposal. MADAM MADAM Chair and and you much time. A scar that kills the wounds. Thank you. MADAM Chair. You know,

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with this memorandum the really feel the proposal upon U.S. One, 90 shouldn't even be present it at all. I think we should table it completely. And wait for the Saudis. Be finished the way it reads. July, the 31st, 2026, they're going to meet in-room tv to 21. I say we wait until we get the results from that because this whole on it happened what, 3 months ago. I don't see a need to do proposal. 1, 1, thank you. Thank you. MADAM Chair. Thank you. Councilor heart again for raising awareness to an issue. I think that when I look at my notes. For your proposal, one 90, you're asking for a tracking system. Ethics training. Increased training and

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requirements compliance with city and state policy. And I agree with all of those things. I think that's this proposal is asking 4. You know, leadership. I don't think cutting funding off gives us leadership, especially to an organization that you said yourself does support so many people. And I think the only way that will get leadership and accountability is to continue to put it on to the mayor's office. I think the memorandum today. We'll wait till the end of next month. But missing real leadership and accountability here. And that's why this proposal is before you. But unfortunately, counselor heart, I don't think it will achieve your goal. And

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so I won't be supporting it tonight. But I agree with you and want. Accountability and leadership. This phs. Especially since 2020 has had a poverty of leadership support and the good leaders that it did have didn't have support and the ones that are left remaining taking a really hard beating that I don't think they deserve. Thank you. MADAM Chair. Cast their votes. Thank you. MADAM Chair. Less back covid in in the act one and 2 money knows money. Back tonight was a co-sponsor with counselor heart on the proposal that some of that all the federal money we're getting. We needed a lot of kind of build it because we saw this bus coming in this train coming down the track

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years ago. And are worst nightmare has happened. We don't know where all the money went. I'm not accusing anybody of embezzling or corruption or just. Getting money. But when we're dealing with taxpayer money. We didn't know where every dollar goes and we need to have a metric to measures effectiveness. Otherwise we're not doing our jobs. Tonight. I don't believe praising the money, increasing the funding. It is the answer. I like everything in here except that because we're all just steps toward accountability. And I think director Merkley, he's gotten the message we sit on the audit committee, you and me Council hard. So we see a lot more than what is even. Discussed here discussed on floor. And I think we have additional opportunity to

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really. Keep an eye on things. And if it is the chair's prerogative of this committee to tell Director Merkley, we want to see you before us every 60 days. You tell us exactly where you are. Tell us what the plan is and where you are. Every 60 days, every 30 days, every 90 days we have that prerogative. So I would suggest that this committee seriously consider plummeting such a periodic reporting We get the right people in front of us. Answer our questions show some metric measurements because right now it I know they're struggling to do that. And I think the office of a us ap is doing that and helping Ripley get to that direction. Again, I am all for accountability. I'm not sure this freezing the money, particularly for the function

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or of all the functions that Phs performs and the benefits of the community. And we talking about these programs, talk about alternatives to. What is available to them on Friday and Saturday nights late. All that's coming through Ph If we phs or even freeze the money and what does freeze the money me exactly. And we know we're going to stop paying people know peaches. I mean, it's just not a rule here, but I agree with the intent and I will be standing side by side Council heart going forward to make sure we get accountability and we see get things in place so that we have a much better handle on where this money is going. And particularly that a lot of the grant money, recipients and the elevate grants. It is money. Well spent and that we're seeing

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metrics and we're getting reports, my experience foundation says bin. Any grant he you don't give us a final report showing exactly what you did and where the money went. Never don't come before us again. You shall not get an audience if you don't fully report what you did and where every dollar went. So I suggest we adopt a similar philosophy. Thank you. MADAM Chair. Thank you. Cause accounts. The greats. Thanks, MADAM Chair. I think quite frankly, MADAM Chair, that if we we're too do anything that this proposal calls for. I think it will be a dereliction of our duties. I think largely the work that we see coming out Phs really what I've always wanted for our community. And that's fighting the root causes of some of the crime. And I think that largely they are responsible for the trend that we see

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across the spectrum in regards to crime. It is moving in the right direction. And that is because of the work that's coming out phs. Obviously they feed the hunger. That mental health focus, the reentry, focus, these root causes of crime. These if these are stopped. Then we can see we can expect crime to move the other way. They've got a crime intervention housing for homelessness especially during our winter contingency time frames. So I think it will be ineffective and I think it would send the wrong message as leaders in the city. If we with all these funds. Thank you. Councilor Bay. Thank you, MADAM Chair, and thank you Council heart for bringing this proposal forward. You know what? I actually read the proposal itself. I don't know how we could look at this and say all of this. It was like a dereliction of duty calls on office of corporate counsel to provide in-person ethics training for staff of Office

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of Public Health and Safety. He recalls on mayor's Office, Officer Corporation counsel to modify ordinance to increase the training of ethics requirements for all city and county departments. Agencies cause on oath them to establish monitoring system for open access that will ensure compliance with both city and state accounting policies and procedures. That sounds like pretty basic stuff to me. And I think it like what a counterbid said. We mentioned every dollar you need to be tracked. Makes me think that when you look Dave Ramsey, every dollar budget for also public health and safety. But at the end of the day for me, this is all about trust but verify and I think counselor in a set of very eloquently last month that unfortunately current director Merkley got caught with the hot potato when the music

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ended. All my interactions with Director Merkley have been very positive. And I really appreciated the presentation last month. So and I say trust but verify. It's not even necessarily trust but verify the director about trust but verify the system phs in and of itself, which I think we've seen that there's systemic failures in that department and I don't think they can be laid at the feet of any one person. It's a systemic issue. And that's what this proposal gets. That if you do all the things in the proposal which again, I don't I can look at that and say the increase ethics training compliance with state and city counting packed as I don't like to look at that and think that's the wrong thing to do. So they do those

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things. Then your funding doesn't get frozen. That's what is at the end of the day, the only gets frozen. If you don't do those things. And I think that's the crux of the argument here. Counselor Dan Lanning. Thank you. MADAM Chair. I just wanted to say that I I do think that this proposal does possibly come a little too close to phs, but I it is important why counselor Hart said that we need to continue the conversation and whether that's what counselor Boots said inviting the director to come in front of us every 90 days or, you know, continuing with the audit committee. Maybe they need to do more than just report back to the audit committee. I

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think that their steps that can be taken that aren't quite as heavy handed the other thing is I think the proposal as it's written can be broken out in 2 separate proposals, specifically it. It talks about increasing modifying the ordinance to increase training of ethical requirements. I think that we as the council actually propose a modification to ordinance to be more specific about some of the things that we need. So I think there are different parts to it. And that could be changed or modified and also not so heavy handed and I also think it's really important that we've got we spent a lot of time tonight talking about curfew. Many other committees talking about curfew and what we did here was from many groups talking about our children need something else

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to do. And I'm so glad that someone brought up, you p addresses the agency that ministers all those programs. And so we can't I couldn't say here vote for the curfew, but then turn around and vote for this ordinance that might possibly defund or take funding away Phs because you've got, if you're going to have one, you got to have the other all that being said I am glad that council heard brought this forward so that we can continue the conversation. Because it's needed. Thank you. Counts the car. Thank you. MADAM Chair proposal one 90, every like to make a motion to table. MADAM Chair, discussion of the motion. It took about. I think discussion on that. Want to discussion on the motion. Been motion has been moved to second. Is time for discussion on motion. Thank you. MADAM

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Chair. Before the motion to table, I wanted to make a motion to and a request to the author given the a voter, the nail about what isn't emotional ready in the fall? I know I'm not trying to make the motion. I'm trying to make a point. I understand that I would like to. I would like to not table this proposal tonight because i believe sections one through 4 are good. And given the date of 7.31, section 5 is not ready. And I agree with my colleague to my and therefore I will not be supporting tabling. Tonight's proposal. Thank you. MADAM Chair.

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Councilor Heart. Thank you, MADAM Chair, couple things. First is that I want to be clear on what the freeze component of originally meant they've got their money for 2026. So I mean, everything is going operate the ways that operates the intent of the line is. They have this year until they get their new budget to get these items one through 4 complete. Or This other part comes into play. That's the intent. Not that these things in this year going to be impacted. It would be next year going forward. They be impacted so I want to assure that's on the record of understanding. And then second. I'm happy to continue to work on this before full count on. Happy to not table it because I just don't like tailing think table things before and they're still on

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the table right now. We'll talk about current accountability still on the table. So I'm I'm not supportive of tabling anything but happy to continue to cover the conversation to get us closer to making sure that we get what they've told us. They're going to do. Kelso Perkins call the question. Okay. Got to take a vote. Carter question. Got a vote on it. We've got about foot of water. We don't vote on call the question I can't cancel Do take a vote. Yes or If that is the conversation was over. Did think you can you don't call the court to someone else? Has the floor. It's a conversation is over. You can pop question. We call the question news.

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Take the vote now. A motion on the floor to table it. A vote. Well, what you need take the vote. MADAM Chair, that I think the point of the the call, the question is to in that debate. So even you can in the debate at any point of the conversation, as long as you're not taking look somebody but yes of college of Music. Into the boat. It counts around, you know, cast a all right. Let's just to run through this one more time. What are we voting on calling the questioner tabling it? Take? Oh, I'm sorry. Can I take my boat? But were table in is ok? So, yes, I want to take this conversation. I'm sorry. This is the on table

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Council in minute. Gas survey. No council votes. No Kelso Wells. Now Councilor did Yay. Council graze craze. Yes, Council heart. COUNCILMAN Scary, scary. Yes, as a merry no council Perkins. Yes. The vote is 65 in favor of know. Really all make a motion MADAM Chair, I'd like to make a motion to amend proposal one 90 by striking through Section 5. Want to order hold out because I was talking and asking a question so we need to bring some order to South Side Park. I was talking ask a question about next So and we still have people that show to that probably want to give a public comment. And then also I can say without to say either. So I have a comment. I think you continue. We're

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focused on the table. Okay. The proposal still on the table, ok, opposition can continue everyone said that you okay. Well, I would like to say, wow, I understand the concerns of this idea that took place. But it doesn't take away from all the good work that the Office Public Health and Safety, and I want to make sure that we continue to do the work that we're doing. And this work has continued to be successfully done. If. We would be More active with you out and communication building that partnership. Director Andrew, has it already been proposed that, you costly, always contact Ph as some costly always has put numbers and everything. So if would do the body good that you will in a derby on record and I will be

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responsible for this. My so to make sure that you come, team come before this body to present these numbers. But also we have to look at. We got to be having this same conversation. The poor results of the it's next it would be presented at the JULY 30 fires. Audit Committee meeting. So I think that's the time that will be able to see the full scope of everything before we began to even try to freeze our hot any money that goes ph as so. I want to make sure we give. Director Andrew Merkley a chance to speak to this. It in commit to this body that you will be here every 60 days, rather to mayo of everything that's taken place in Oak Ph is and we're

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going to be able to hold you accountable for obvious questions that everybody has. Thank you. MADAM Chair, members of the committee indirectly, director of the Office Public Health and Safety. Phs has been working to address many of the audit's finding since before this report was released. And many of many of the proposals that we have in the audit that we said we were going to address have already been fully addressed. We've also begun addressing items related to procurement contracts, training, finances, and more. We are still working on additional procurement training ethics training. One of our one of the deputy director says Ben has already reached occ in our procurement division to make sure we can get the schedule. We don't anticipate any issues making the suggested changes in the report. Programs Phs is currently implementing our

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positively and demonstrably impacting our community. And it would be premature to cut funding for them. Criminal homicides are down. 55 1% since 2021. Our food division helps feed more than 25,000 people last year handed out more than 300,000 pounds of food. This winter winter contingency helped more than 1100 men and couples get out of the cold for 50 nights and 30 days of inclement weather. We housed more than 40 families out of that Winter contingency program this year. We are evaluating all of our programming and metrics to ensure our dia is reflective of the impact we have on our community. And these are just a few examples of the many. Programs and outcomes that okay just can provide. Phs is already making tangible measurable progress on these audit findings and we will

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continue to do so. Halting funding now is not going to provide our neighbors. The results they're hoping for. They're hoping to or expecting to see from this agency. Thank Director Mark Ali. Do any councils have any questions or comments for director Mike Leigh? Councilor Heart? Thank you. MADAM Directly Merkley. I think grants and everything that needs to be done. Mean, the things that are in here, the things that that you told us, right, the only thing different section 5. What I'd like to know. I think many of the members of a body like to know is when will those things be done because my intent was and this you have them to by the end of the year because that's funding company comes into play. But if you can give us a day. That helped me

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tremendously to know that. Now we've got something old. You come by. So when when does the office and having? Everything you stated in your response to the audit, complete Kelso hurt. I cannot give you a specific date today. We do. All of these will be accomplished. What I can tell you is I have chart in front of with every single proposal that we had enough and the audit findings that we said we would address. Marked which ones have already been completed, which ones are in progress and which have not been completed if this body would like for me to come before you on a regular basis. I would appreciate that opportunity to provide you with an update. One thing that have we already planned to do in JULY. You will begin receiving the entire council will begin receiving a monthly newsletter with data included and and update on these audit this audit the proposals in

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it. Councilor boots. Thank you. MADAM Chair Director Mike Leigh would be possible in that report. To include. The I think there, if I recall having read the report in the last week or so, but there were 6 or 7 findings. Thank you all a fun debate. Yeah. And could you put it the report and that MAY be what you have in your hand there. Some type of matrix that shows here's finding one boom, boom, boom is what we're doing. Boom. Here's a status. Yeah. I think that's kind of what we're looking for. The date certain of I think that would really satisfy my desire for accountability. Yes, counselor, we can. Providing

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this committee with. This matrix that we continually updated for you. Thank This question for council appears I'd like to make a motion that this committee phs to submit report every 60 days backing up what our chair side. But putting a motion behind it can sand. Then I'd also like part of my motion would be this would be considered report number one for JUNE and then the second report would be coming AUGUST first, second, can't do motions on the floor. We have to do it in writing so we can do that. But we have to do do a written. Motion. Our proposal for next committee. Yes, thank you. I withdraw my motion or try an Thank you, counselor Delaney. And maybe that's something we can work

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on together because I would happy to spa so that. Proposal only because I know this is something even the community. One side know that they wanted the dashboard that has taken, you know, has taken some time to get up. And if I'm not mistaken, is it up or is it not a so? Could not. MADAM Chair, the dashboards their dashboards created for various programs. Have the one I think you're referring to is the Gbra correct. That's one of them that kept hearing about that. We were gonna get a dashboard up and that that conversation was going off for a couple years. So this MAY be a little technical for everyone, but we did not have a data manager until last year. Believe and it is very it's challenging to create these dashboards and linked to the data as it comes in to

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make sure that it's updating those dashboards automatically. And so the Gbr u.S. Dashboard was created by. In the Pope's safety Foundation. We the needed to get that information and create this city dashboard The links to not work correctly. Sardina managers fixing that. And that's why it's not yet live. But on our website currently there are multiple dashboards lives that you can look at for several of our programs that data managers working to make sure that we have dashboards available for as many programs as we can provide that data to you. Okay. In so far there with that, some of the things that should be included. When you send a report to this body would be something about around organization, the out,

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the grant time period and the type of services that we that we're providing as well as the jury at dia graphic area. That cover that particular grant. If that makes sense, if we can have of that because to me that would show that you all in compliance with man. Also, we can be able tell our constituents this is where your money is going to. When we talk about tax dollars right? And so and I think if we stay in compliance, then you well, we will have to worry about. Quest to me. If the work Phs is doing it, should they be getting the funding or not? It should be very detail and because I have comply as background, I think you should be very detailed

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and have all your directors, you know, report out to eat, you know, report from to see those numbers in there. If that makes sense, yes, I'm sure that makes sense. I wonder, could we maybe work together what that list of requirements is get just make That it is possible to provide you with. And so from my understanding, Tony Director, Tony, I already has this same. What I just requested. He has this same information that is being, you know, required to provide in the end. The report. Okay. Follow up with the both of you ok, appreciate that. Does anybody from the public have Amy comments or questions? Thank you,

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director. Thanks to good evening, everyone. And Tori and Everett and I minority office out business. So if you some help, in all seriousness, I do want to come up here to say. If this exact same proposal were on this table right now. And that acronym didn't Phs. And it's impd. This body. Most of this body would be an uproar. A complete uproar. Most of this body just said this very evening. To the deputy chief. Paraphrasing, we don't know where have your money is going to. And you asked. Them creating different reports. I did not hear unless I've missed it. I did not hear

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you get an answer on life of a vehicle that we purchase. And we let it go. No one hailed the deputy chief accountable to a specific date timeline. Any additional follow-up about when these reports we're going to come as far as these budget dollars that are being asked for year after year that we are already saying we're going to approve it anyway. So if we're going to apply accountability, which I'm all for accountability again, stand here as a black man. I have to say I'm not against the police. I have to say it. But standing here, we want to talk about accountability. It should be something that is across the board, not as picking and choosing when we apply it. But that should be the standardized expectation.

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If we want to throw ethics phs list, though, the ethics training the impd. If you want to throw customer service training Phs because they're dealing with the community. So as impd. So again, my words are not to defund the police board. You pages, but we do need to hold everyone accountable. Thank you. Reverend Chauncey. Thank you. MADAM Chair. It's my belief, I agree that there has to be accountability. But I think that we're quite often being trapped in the mindset of dollars, not recognizing the people that it will affect if these ideas go forward. I believe that 3 out of the 4 things mention. Accountability. But that last thing is huge. Threatening dollars to raise accountability but make jobs

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harder because less resources, fewer opportunities to reach our young people, fewer opportunities to reach our underserved communities. I think that there is a way that we can do this this year without that threat looming over our head and making decision tonight to already say we're going to cut budget when it sounds like our director. Is already putting things in place to rectify what was going wrong. They're Phs is doing so much in the community speaking as a far East side, residents as an educator in the Meadows and as a minister on the West side on mlk. I know the work they're doing firsthand. They're working very hard. And yes, there has to be accountability, but it does not have to come at the cost of cutting funding just yet. I think we still have tie. I think we can still do harder

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at work harder. I think we can go back to the drawing board and just make some changes before making this type I like to entertain a motion. MADAM CHAIRMAN, Christian for part of that Council. Can I make a motion to amend? One 90. If you make of bull amendment. Postponed it for a month because we have to get right. I'd like to divide the question. For sections. One through 4. And section to divide from Section 5. I'm not sure I you're going to do everything has to be done before. People are. The committee has to be in writing and steady versus on the floor. Around that. That's the way amendment not. I understand. Council MAY. Thank you. MADAM Want to briefly explain to everyone. The parliamentary procedure. The counselor heart recommended

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and was motion and received a second. You know, there's been a lot of conversation. I think here I think there's some bipartisan support. I could be wrong. I think we're going find out. I think there's some bipartisan support, perceptions, one through 4 on this proposal calling on, you know, the increased ethics training and a train compliance with city and state accounting procedures. But there's some hesitation. Section 5, which is the freeze of the funding for next year. If they don't meet the requirements and sections one through 4. So council are just motion. Was that of to divide the questions? So there would be one vote. Sections, one through 4 and there will be a second vote on Section 5 if. The yeas have it on sections, one through 4. And the nays

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had it on Section 5, which is our least I would envision that this could possibly go. Then only sections, one through 4 with and proceed to the full Council for a vote and Section 5 would therefore be removed from the proposal. There would not be any freeze of the funding. So first vote would be sections one through 4. If you support the. Increased ethics training and the increased monitoring. You would vote yes on that. And then if you are maybe a little bit more hesitant on freezing the funding for next year and section 5, you would vote no on the second vote. Thank you. MADAM Chair, Medal count so procedurally is that authorizes that allowed on and then that was required on

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final votes. For example, we We are presenting the budget at the full Council meeting. Anyone divide the question at at a final vote. Walk us through this process right now, amendments in the committee. I don't recall that a proper procedure. Not huge, not divide divide a divide in the proposal. Yes, us through that. That process is again. I thought fighting that proposal was meant for a final vote. For example, when we do the budget, we often divided out to keep counselors for voting on items that they MAY have a conflict of interest. It's a way go to what you're going monetize been the recommendation to the full Council. Until a to b. To partner Whatever you vote on is going to be. We see the

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full council to pass for do not passed each individual in stomach watching that. That's fine. Guess counselor at a distant know that this is. Proper. Motion. Cancer Bang, thank this one to the Can we get a ruling from the volunteering with that's a proper procedure? If about all my time to now council peers. Now I I don't disagree with counsel. You can divide a question. Thank you, MADAM Chair. Appreciate that. Maybe just want to stay 2 from a previous time working at the state Legislature. This is actually a tool House Democrats and Senate Democrats. He's pretty often actually 2, 2, there's to their success. This one, a line state house. We do. You guys saw more ever. Every moment point it would put it later. Can we take a vote? Yes, and we bring this home land. The plane we so I want to are we entertaining both

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questions. Did you put? It's been moved and seconded yet to divide the question my mind to sections one through port would be the 1st half. Section 5 is the second. Most 2 boats. Out have Cao certain a I house sections, one through cast a vote. Yes. Council well, well as I Cassidy 90. Counts the great snow. Council Heart Hart I can is scary. Councilor Mowery, I counsel Perkins Perkins know. 65. Second question. So, Allan, nay. Kassar an ai. A Counts the votes. No kelso else. Well, that's also didn't I ne? Also graced great snow.

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Counts the heart Hart. I some scary know, has Mary. The cows, a purpose. Perkins 7 no's 3 ace. This is our public safety and criminal Justice Committee. The meeting is adjourned.