Good evening, everybody. Thanks for coming this Today is OCTOBER. 28 06:00pm are in the city County building. This is a meeting of the rules committee. We're first going to start off by introductions. Start in the far left with counselor Delaney. Good evening, MR. CHAIRMAN Brenda Lee from District 2. Thank you, MR. CHAIRMAN Jessica McCormack District 16. Thank you, MR. CHAIRMAN, I'm a guest this evening. My name is Michael part representing District 20. Thank you, MR. CHAIRMAN might go district. 24. Thank you, MR. CHAIRMAN Josh District. 21. Thank you, MR. Chair Brian Mowery District. 25. Thank you, MR. CHAIRMAN Ali Brown District 10. Good evening, CHAIRMAN. Anything else in District, 14 East side. Thank you, MR. CHAIRMAN, Good, even all DR.
Carlos Perkins District 6. Thank you, MR. CHAIRMAN Lee who are Robinson District Good evening. Maggie List district 5. Good evening about those of the district wealth. Thank you, everybody. Vice-chair Butte's lab, the honor of chairing the meeting this evening. Today we have a combination of the working group, members of our council. In addition to the rules Committee. So I'd like to call this meeting to order and thank you all for being here tonight. As we hear about the steps, the city county has taken to update its harassment policies and procedures and to consider any appropriate legislative action. I particularly want to thank the working group that consists counselor delay the counselor, Nielsen Council Macomb, a Counselor Hardin Council vain and also a great things to council Pearson, Drake's Towers for all the effort they put in heretofore leading up
to this meeting. So this is a important sensitive topic and we appreciate your engagement as we work toward a safer, more accountable workplace for all city County employees. As we know our most important asset for the city is its people, its not our dump trucks. It's not our snow plows. It's our people. So before we begin, I want to clearly outline of purpose and structure of tonight's meeting. This meeting is focused solely on revealing steps already taking and discussing future policy changes. We are here to evaluate options here. Public input. The consider improvements moving forward. With all due respect, this is not the appropriate venue to raise individual complaints, pass incidents or personnel matters. We understand that some MAY have strong feelings
of these issues or have personal troubling experiences. But this meeting is not designed to adjudicate a revisit specific cases. To ensure respect orderly process. All public comments should be directed to me as the chair and not to any individual staff members, committee members or presenters. Representatives from the city's human resources are here to present steps already taken and future options in to answer general procedural questions posed by our counselors. They will not be responding to any questions or comments about specific incidents, investigations or personnel decisions. It would be inappropriate for them to do so in a public forum such as tonight's meeting. Excuse me, we asked that everyone
maintain a respectful tone, stay focused on constructive feedback about tonight's presentations. If you have concerns about individual matters, please use appropriate internal channels outside of this meeting to raise those individual concerns. Again, please note this meeting is intended or 2 foot intended to foster constructive discussion in public or problem solving. It is not a forum for public criticism or blame to ensure respectful and focused environment. Only counselors will be asking questions during the session. Additionally, the conversation will not center on specific cases individuals as previously mentioned. Well, Lester, examples MAY be used to highlight systemic
challenges are potential solutions. The discussion will remain policy focused and forward looking. On more personal note, we realize this topic has been an emotionally charged. One. And we sympathize with what many of you in this room this evening or elsewhere MAY have experienced. We sincerely apologize for what you've been through. We want to ensure that nothing like what has happened in the past ever happens again in the future. Once again, we thank you for your participation and commitment in improving our city's workplace culture. With that, we'll begin with a discussion of the current hr recommendations that hour working group have compiled the clerk would turn to the next slide. There are 7
listed. And I'm sorry, they MAY not have major paper. Group that got distributed. But these are the ones. Temporary appointment of an ad hoc inspector general. Creation of an independent human resources board. Consideration of an independent office of equal opportunity. Promoting awareness and access to reporting tools. Audits of hr investigations. Creating a universal harassment, free work environment. Yearly aggregate reporting of harassment statistics. Those are the 7 that we are studying tonight and going forward and any others that are worthy that come to our attention. Having said that will now invite. Council beeler forward. To give us a summary
of. Current policies and what has happened in the last several months from the a churn occ perspective. Feel free to sit. Up front or even a front if you'd like. Could throw stuff at you closer. If you're sitting here. Let be in charge of the slides as you move forward the floor. Is yours. Great. Thank you, MR. CHAIRMAN and members of the committee. My name is Brandon Beeler. I serve as the corporation counsel for the city of Indianapolis. And I thank you for having me here here tonight to give you an update on on the actions. The city county enterprise has taken the last 15 months. The first category a high rate focus on trainings. I first want to know the harassment training was made mandatory in
the city code back in 2019 and then AUGUST of 2024, the mayor signed an executive order as we clear the mandatory training that was past and is still ordinance is for supervisors only as something that's required to do every 2 years back last year in AUGUST of 2024, the mayor signed an executive order that requires mandatory harassment training for all employees every year. The strain is sent to employees employees. The this offer less in Lee employees are notified multiple times but e-mails that the training is available to him to complete with the deadlines and something I want to highlight this committee is that because we have in place the enterprise that you not have email or computers, human resources is coordinated to
make sure that those trains are available to workers who don't have those resources just last year, the human resource departments conducted 10 in-person trainings to covered. Make sure every play was trained as well as a plans to continue that again this year with all of our city county employees. And this year on SEPTEMBER 9th, the harassment training for supervisors and non supervisors out and the due date to complete that for all employees is NOVEMBER. 30th. Supervisors also receive a week port from human resources. So track of their employees to make sure that the training is done. Timely. The next kind of are able to talk about is the anonymous reporting system. So last
AUGUST, we begin demonstrations of 6 different third-party anonymous reporting system vendors for the city county enterprise to consider this is a coordinated effort between h r o and Pham risk Management. The Office of for months. I sa and City County Council but personally think council is currently no McCormick Wilson who are engaged in this process with us. The vendors were scored based on 6 different categories and aggregated average to get a quantitative ranking speak fully was selected and work began right away on implementation. While the we're continue to gets the fully set up, I launched an anonymous reporting tool that we use temporary within the system within the city county. Allows employees to have the
option to anonymously report. And so he gets the under contract and get the isc infrastructure so it function properly. We're proud to officially launch. We are proud officially launched the beginning of this year. I do apologize for your hand out and say 2024 should say JANUARY 2025. Discredit on the slide. No, it's not. So that was actually be at this year. Since then, the many ways to access the fully has been featured in hr newsletters and fires have been distributed to all offices and a lead to the system is also available on the city county stunt or not. And now to some of the employee resources. We have that have been around. But we also Mason Hansen's to a few of them. So employees here in City County do have access to mental health support and resources through several different channels. The employee assistance program
will be called a p provides free counseling as well as guidance for legal financial work-life balance needs for all employees and their families. It offers 24 7 confidential support, accessible in person by phone video chat. Behavioral health services are also available through marathon, which is the city county's health provider. This free resource offers coaching therapy treatment for stress, anxiety, grief, depression, and more. The service is available for all employees and covered dependents, 12 and older are accessible to in-person phone or video visit options. This past year we expanded marathon service and now we allowed employees can make an appointment with a therapist without first requiring a referral from their provider. And this last year we continue to expand available resources
for the city County employees, which includes adoption of the new anonymous reporting system that previously discussed as well as a new handout from plays that provides detailed information on what to expect from the reporting investigation process. Should they have a workplace related concern? Complains the 3 p's that information on this and out for employees. First of all, provides the list employee resource is there that employees are aware? Second describes investigative process. So there's less a priceless questions or confusion about how each our investigates complaints. And finally, includes what employees appeal rights are. I'm excited to get to our internal working groups. So in early AUGUST of last year, planning groups convened a cabinet members, members of h
r occ to start working to address the company culture concerns. This route, help procure speak fully created. The U.S. Are asked company culture, working groups and to pick a vendor for the Cultural Assessment survey. This planning group continues to meet on a regular basis to move initiatives forward. The advisory group consists of a subset of cabinet members and county officials who provided strategic advising and will provide final approval recommendations. This group is that 8 times this year. I want to thank all the staff has taken time out of their busy schedules to participate in these internal working groups to ensure that employee voices are heard. The talk these 2 subset groups that I previously mentioned. The first one is the
harassment policy working group. This group is led by our chief diversity officer been Tapper and this group is not about half a dozen times. This spearheaded the updating of the city County enterprises, harassment policy, which included adding definitions. More details on the reporting procedures and ensuring that the updated policy reflects best practices. This group spearhead r this fall, an updated version of the aggressive policy was approved by the Inter by this internal advisory group. That policy is now being incorporated into the city County Agers manual and required acknowledgment for. Context of that. Any time a major update happens to the employee to Human Resources manual acknowledgement form is required to sign by all city county employees to show that they are aware of the new
policy understanding policy. And this update. Anticipate intend to have done by the end of the year. The next working group we have is the company culture working group. So this working group is led by the director of office director of the Office didn't perform at West Jones as well as the chief diversity officer been Tapper. This group is not a total of 8 times this year and plans to next year. So far the group has reviewed and edited the Cultural Assessment survey and develop the rollout process and ensure aimed at ensuring that employees had by engagement leading into the AUGUST 11 survey opening the bulk of this group's work will begin. Once we receive results from the Cultural Assessment survey. Now, let's talk a little bit about the employee survey. MAY heard this one out to give you some information about this. Is that in spring this year that the playing group selected tell us to
assist us in the development execution analysis of the Cultural Assessment survey also selected due to their vast experience working with government entities. The company Culture Working Group. An advisory group helped draft or approve the survey questions. To ensure trust and participation in the anonymous survey, a webinar was conducted and recorded by Rick. Tell us to answer questions for any interested employees. Supervisors were also asked to encourage their employees to participate. The survey was open for 3 weeks to ensure plenty of time for participation. We received about a 30 per 3% participation rate from eligible employees. One survey close draft tell us came in, came in person to perform 9 focus groups to collect more data and to clean deeper insights. We're still waiting on the final results and
recommendations which we hope to receive by the end of the year. And we are committed to working with the company Culture working Group Advisory Group to review and implement pilot programs to continue to improve our city county enterprise. And that will conclude the updates. I thank you all for your work on this important effort. And we are committed to continuing to work alongside you. Thank you for your time tonight. Thank you. Council Any questions from any member of group Yes, sir. MADAM Leader, thank you, MISTER CHAIRMAN, thank you so much for your presentation. Just lit up clarification. Harassment policy working group, it's led by the chief diversity officer been tape. You're to see too quick, too. So Ben Tapper is cabinet level. Officials. Same applies directly to the mayor the mayor. The chief of staff of
the mayor mayor was asked and okay. I just want to make sure that there's like a direct. Any issues that makes his way up to plate. That's for yes. So Illini's reporting record Parker to the chief of staff. Okay. Any additional costs? Yes. Council Nielsen. Thank you, MR. CHAIRMAN. Thank you. Council be alert for update. Could you if someone my son, could you kind of walk through? This is a technical question on the speak. Fully peace that it is an anonymous reporting tool. And so how on our? How How are complaints or allegations handle with a disaggregated so that preserves. Confidentiality. But also, you know, like could you MAY walk through how that's handled if you can on on ploy. You were to submit
submit a ticket. Sure they might best obviously is very case-by-case. What what how much information and employee provides initially and all that. So let's take it through play wants to remain anonymous but report bad workplace behavior, they believe rises to a level that violent city county policy. So that complete is gone. It goes in. It's monitored by the professionals and human resources. The few people who do investigations I've seen there's a demonstration how the interface works or not overly familiar with it because that really don't get involved. That investigatory state typically. First a run on then it's kind of like a chat. It's almost as if so the the some standard operating procedures for hr and they're continuing to perfect those. But they can ask questions and
ok, can you tell us what department here can you tell us any more information or we try to be specific or they try to be as specific as possible. What information can help them get started. An investigation. We just always it's going to be someone's name. So they true. They have, you know, different things in their arsenal of tools. They can start trying to get more information from the employee that remains open and implications and thinking don't close it when and so essentially it's a sort of a private air phase that the employee connects us from there, personal devices from their home devices. Work computers as well. So and essentially goes to the point where has enough information. It's that it does rise to what complaint is meeting. That's a violation, violent city county policy in the workplace and Percy workplace procedures and policies. It'll start to story process as they can with the need to pull. Data documents, information where they need to
start interviewing other want to be like concerns were those are words questions. And that's another stiffly can be used for that. If you just how the general question don't want identify yourself about a question. Our policies you can do that equally as well. Ultimately, it's still it's the avenue for a charting as much information as they protecting. That plays right to remain anonymous to investigate. And if found stop that. So then was a as this submitted his case. A summit is being investigated. I know one of the as as you know, from following this, something that was brought up during the investigative committee process. And I wasn't the only one. Was what happens at that point with some things that brought up about an elected official, either county executive member of this body. How has how does Gore will
speak fully process informed that decision or in format process going forward. Hey, to get that answer that has that really does depend on just kind of the nature of what is known. It's hard put that. I mean, I say that. If that's the case, think it's something that it would be treated the same as ever. Complaint, we want information. We want to know if there's bad behavior happening. We try to ensure that employee reassured her them that. They're they're they're they have a right. They have a protected right to complain about that behavior. But it isn't anything trigger. The sense the standard operating procedures and investigating a complaint that behavior, whether it's elected official or not, it's still investigated as really is. They can be. Thank you. Councilor Bay. Thank you, MR. CHAIRMAN, thank you, MR. Dylan, for the presentation being here tonight. I think anything that the city does to
try to rebuild trust and create a better working environment is a step in the right direction. That being said about these working groups, the harassment policy working group that and company culture working group. I see there being led by director Tapper and record Jones. I outside of their current city government role. What qualifies them to leave that working group? Guess other both very qualified individuals generally speaking. But I think I know this is the goal of administration forming these to get a diversity of opinion, a diversity of not only. Background and where we all we all work in different departments. We all have different needs. We have, you know, different subcultures in our department's. I think. To conjecture conjecture. Was
that these folks could help identify members of group or should the PRESIDENT Have different voices help us come together to have comprehensive policy that would that if at all departments. So is there outside h r Consulting going on throughout processing. You know, when the council decided to look into. This whole situation, you know, we went out hr professionals and while that process ultimately have some falls, I believe the intent was there, too. Make sure you're talking to the appropriate individuals and working with hr experts. Do you know for those 2 policy working groups are? And you better working with a car experts because I don't exactly know the full employment history and qualifications of director
Jones. But don't. Recall off the top. My head seen as a part of that work history. I think for that, I think that that the interest were different. They're the ones to look into the specific situation or situations that occurred. This one I think was focused on let's hear employees like. And so I think they reflecting more is having a better tap on the diversity of work workers we have within the enterprise and to hear from employees what they felt was lacking where they felt unsupported, where they felt there are gaps in the system. And that and I think so the gold are just different. Know, no outs. A human resource experts at this point have been have been identified for this work at this point. I've got a couple questions read it to the rest of the counselors
sprinkle my mind we go. Is there any currently any annual? Reporting aggregate basis of the statistics from the hr department as complaints filed. The nature of those filings and complaints disposition of those cases. I don't know. Report has been compiled for even internal publication. The fire in my preparations this is rough. Know this is not official that I believe when I was looking in to this day. So since before we went live, we've roughly had about 123 submissions. And I know we've talked about complaints and concerns of the difference between them. They're about half and half so half the concerns questions about what the policy is, the other half, the roughly about what
complaints are of those of those 123, only 4 were complaints of harassment. And after investigation, only one resulted in a finding that city county policy harassment policy was in fact violated. I do a number contacts and for full transparency, disclosure. They're 5 county offices that have their own hr departments. So if they can't so part of the one twenty-three's coming in. So it's a county courts that it would be appropriate shipped off to them also use it on a system that they now one the city county charter handle those that that's kind of a rough numbers. Okay. Well, as the disposition of the one case where harassment was found, I do not know. You not like credit report back? Another quick question during the process or the complainants routinely updated
on the stage or the phase of the investigation. I believe so. I know that they've been working so peas on trying to keep keep keep the the complaint and a prize. And it's a movie and I know it's difficult. I think that some conservatives certainly have heard. So I know that that is happening and should that happen more? We're going to work or is that some people know and those who have made complaints are aware that still invested. So those are just a matter time document his update since it. Can take time to go through e-mails. Also schedule interviews and things that is important for us to let them play. No, that they are. We are investigating actively and we do try to make sure that employees feel safe if we need to move workplaces,
do something that of that nature we are willing and we do actively do that within our investigations as well. Okay. Thank you. The council Brown. Thank you, CHAIRMAN I want kind of jump back to counselor thing was talking about earlier and answer to a question when we talk about the vast trust people have lost trust and what's going on, frankly, last night, some the staff. And so the idea of just going straight to the 25th floor and reporting it makes me uneasy, right? Because things are reported to the 25th floor before. And we're here. So is there a way that we because when things get center counselors, they become public record, right? So we have to be careful to protect people. But is there a way we can get it done on mice
report from director's Tapper and Jones about the what is happening in these harassment groups that are asked policy working group and the cultural working group. So that we can be responsive to the people who are coming to us to say what the heck is going on. You know, any of that kind of stuff right now. I want to protect people and they're what they're saying and make sure they're protected in their workplace. And when stuff comes to us. But I would feel much more comfortable exposing making sure everyone exposed to what has a chance to know what's going on because they want. The trust us. Isn't there? I appreciate that. I and to the extent we can do that, certainly take that internal and having to work with you on on games with the search is develop its great deal that you counselor. Thank you, MR. Chair people backing off of the people around there. I agree. I
think. There should be a better way than to go straight to the 25th floor with this. Because what we've seen in this investigation is that there's been a lot of trust Lawson. Having all these issues roll right up to the person that caused all this doesn't seem like it's going to be beneficial to the people. To me, it would people wouldn't be is trust. We're trusting of this process because they know where it's going end up in. If there's a way for us to figure that out, I'm not sure who that roll up to. I think, you know, you could probably work on something like that where we figure out a way to try to take 24 out of it. What we've seen is. Things were handled are handled legally, not necessarily ethically. And I think that's going crazy credit. A lot of has as a station and people's mind to really want to go come forward and say something see what's happened so far. So. I would
hope we can find a way to get that done. So thank The counselor. Yes, council counselor Heart. Thank you, MR. CHAIRMAN it, guess what? Keep that conversation going and alive, you know, comes to mind for me is that there was a lot of a lot of workers. We mentioned rate. We've mentioned. Policy advisory committee culture. There's a documentation here that there was an additional. 9 focus groups conducted to collect more data and more information, including deeper insights during that were alternative reporting methodologies consider brought up and denied for particular reason that they wouldn't be feasible that ultimately led to the decision take to the 24. So quickly to separate out the 9 working groups. Those were together by Rick. Tell us the company that did the
survey too. Because they after they did. Don't know what they did. I'm not a statistician. Are I do it. But I think they got information. And what a difference. A different one. Additional information and found different groups was related to the working groups. As far as policy goes out was to get more information as they prepared the survey results from the cult. The company's survey on the other groups, the advisory groups and the harassment, the company culture Group Credit don't exactly know. Therefore, they in my understanding it was all to inclusive of the pick, folks that maybe we're a bit disconnected or just least who knew the enterprise and employees better. But I think these points well taken. Okay. I'm you're my my thought being is that, you know, we've gone through as as part of our working group. Every went
through a lot of ideas from a lot of different folks. And we were able to that. Some of those do various legal counsels and we have explanations of why particular things. You know, we're going to work. And so. As we continue to look forward, a policy recommendations from our side, I just think it would be helpful to see what y'all considered and any particular reason that it wasn't considered in your your policy recommendations. Council beeler 5 MAY ask is the current? Means of appealing an hr decision that the complainant disagrees with. It's it's a pretty standard. Is that after the end of the investigatory process, if the complainant disagrees with the result, which in case would be that either a violation of policy did not occur or violation occurred. But the discipline
to isn't severe enough. They disagree the discipline wasn't severe enough. They can go. That with this place that you see was defendant investigatory agency over a of workplace conduct or the Indiana Civil Rights Commission. The icrc does. That's similar work in both avenues. And that's what we put it on our information sheet. So employees are aware that's a possibility because we did here and please do not know that was an option to them at the end of the process. Council Perkins. Thank you, MR. I wanted to just bring some clarity around a couple of things that we're throwing I think we're confused and a bit. The difference between the working groups. The Culture Assessment survey. The deeper questions
to the focus group. And your anonymous reporting systems. So I think we asking questions that seem to be conflating those things together. My understanding is you are working. Groups works established internally to further look at policies and practices. The survey focus group came on board as a result off the culture survey and wanted to know more and asking people questions. Those things are separate from your anonymous reported structure that's in place, correct? That is correct. I would just clarify that the cultural, the cultural. Working the company called for Working Group was charged with doing the survey.
There is a look at you. And so they were park is that is the group that went together employee feedback, not just from members of the group employees and their department. Questions that would be relevant to really getting answers on company culture. So my question then becomes for your arrest, Mont policy working group. So fall of 2020 5 that the policy was approved by the advisory group. The final policy or one of the policy looks like. Can you share that with us? Is that anywhere in terms of what was recommended by the working? Yes, I do believe that we did have a brief and wish it some cows and up to all. The counselors, buddy, it can do. Yes, we can share that yes, Scotland. Thank you. This council Delaney. Thank you, MR. Chair. Hadar 7 recommendations that we presented end. Part of the recommendations included and
appointment of a temporary ad hoc inspector general and our creation of an independent human resources board. In both of as part of their formulation. Talk about truly be independent of the current reporting systems that are there. And I know we have a couple questions about what happens when you're reporting to the number one person or an elected official, how do we make sure that those complaints are also remain fairly adjudicated? And and I think that some of the concerns that I heard from over here and I think these recommendations that we're putting forward that he, sure Phillips. And that was that the true independent part was it had to address that. But part of going through all this, they're there MAY be
some problems with with having things truly independent. As of the public records portion and things that if you have a truly independent board, you know, the things that the board has would have to become public. So I was hoping that maybe you could talk a little bit about that is our recommendations seem to be a little In contradiction to what MAY be possible in those of you could talk about that as to why we can't. Maybe we can say we need something truly independent. But if you could talk a little bit about that. Thank all so clear. Yet, As we at least from our perspective, he's tried to evaluate all recommendations from the counsel for Fisher Phillips from others who worked here. Still work here. Don't work here. I think. There was a problem. We've I've looked at several
different inspector general models. It's hard to see what we work for the city at this point. It doesn't mean the doors closed on any of those ideas that it really is the independence. That would be the fundamental hard part of disclosing because at the heart of where everyone's interest a liar that witnesses survivors complains have the right not to get to the fight. Should they not want to be identified? And 2 terms of a 2 to another board. We make investigatory material public record. So it seemed to not strike that balance that we have it figure out a way at this to do that. I think that oversight has certainly been. The idea in our head. I think it's just challenging to get there with frankly, the limitations of in government. Thank you. And I have one additional question, but I can wait the ground. Sure. We'll have plenty of opportunities
go around the because her kids. Thank you, MR. CHAIRMAN just wanted to close the loop on what I was asking before there was some question about the qualification of the individuals that are run in the working group. And I think that those individuals have stepped up to do the difficult work in the midst of all that we were doing. So we want highlight and applaud them by nature of the work that they do for the enterprise allows. And that gives him the credibility and the credentials to be able to run the working group. The question that I want to ask, though, is. I wonder if what we can learn from the climate survey. And the legal questions that might help us former decision. And move into an independent human resource board. This is my challenge.
If the discovery is the current climate and culture that exists. Is brought on by this administration. That will change after the next election. Then do we make a decision now? That is a decision for the future. In fact, in the Enterprise. If the issue is is a culture climate that exists now that needs to change. I believe it is. There's a culture, the climate that exists now that needs to change. It's a decision. Future decision for a 7 independent board or this something that needs to be done now with the current. Administration and the climate that exists. And I think we can learn some of that from the climate culture. Hear from current employees and knowing what we know now. Got some ground. Just being back in a little bit off of what council Germany set. Everyone just keeps giving thoughts. And it
just brings me back to this because hr is created to protect the enterprise, right? That's what it's for. We have union employees that have grieved hers. If we don't have ig or anything like that, is there a way we can create an office that is effectively grieve or for our city employees because who is going to advocate for them with hr is. To protect the enterprise. That's what it does, right? It's not protect. Employees is to protect Enterprise. In a way it protects in place by protecting the enterprise. But no one is there with the hand of somebody who's now going against the deputy mayor of the city of Indianapolis with the debt. You MAY receive an a plus. Is that part of rise right? 2 requests. So how do we get? How do we get grieve something? And I g something that is actually there for the victim for the employee,
whether they're employing more or not. If your union, you have that. But we have quite a deal of non-union employees that don't have that kind of protection. And this MAY be a question to for the Society Human Resources. So if you are racist management, that's coming up later. But that's something that's really important because no one's there to advocate. And someone has been a victim of assault. It's taking a 20 year statement advocate for myself on this. So I want to make sure that people feel protected support. And if that support is somebody who's appointed and then it comes down. I mean, where is that protection? Did you have any comment on that council beeler over? Not at point is certain take from from my perch. I do
think hr served roles and are staying here. I think in my years of or maybe a perception issue because kind of a varios, he sees China as a project. The enterprise from, you know, the whole and challenges a chart doesn't believe take their role seriously. And providing employee support. They ensure employees complain, feel safe or feel. They can complain freely without consequence and that their complaints will be taken seriously and believed. So I think that. I hear that I think continue to remind us as we think through different whether its policies or changes of ordinance or what it is. I think that's very important point. Question for me. Council be was the last time the employee manual was substantially revised. I believe that I'm going when
really I believe it was. 22 was a last stand Shull. 20 to 21 stamp on the front of 22. So the first see all these recommendations that are coming from these, you know, the culture group harassment policy group, these just going to be tweaks and additions or deletions to the current policy as you move forward. As far the the workplace harassment policy. That's what a pretty big overhaul. That's that's again, that is the definitions. Be more clear in the manual itself about all of the procedures that hr will go through. So that employees understand what the investigatory process looks like because I think that MAY kind of thing many of the council discuss that a lot of employees play. They have no idea what's going on. They have no idea if their complaints will be heard. So I think to put that out there to
be as transparent front as possible, what investigation looks like, but they're still going work to do. And there's I think, as far updating the manual, this is the this is a big upgrade compared to I don't know how what is done in the past. Any questions? Yes, counselor Delaney. Thank you, MR. Chair. Our recommendation. Number Well consideration, but not recommendation. But I want to talk about the independent office of Equal Opportunity. From my understanding would allow complains from individuals outside of key enterprises. That correct? That's correct. Okay. And so that one of the initial complaint that site here before us did never worked for the city County enterprise. And I I wanted to just talk a little bit about our there, sees that we can do that would allow because we're such a
organization. We have. Interact with keep he needs unions in vendors and all sorts of folks. Citizens that come into the city. And so it's. I think that this could be a good avenue if we promote it effectively. Inefficient builds report talks about it being, I guess, sort of like and are promoting. And I just wanted to give you the opportunity to talk about how the office can be used more effectively. Thank you, counselor. This process learn a lot about the history that office. So well, that is house currently occ. It is sort of like local ios e so. Often times. And I think they for the most part, it's a it is employee, a former employee or something, frankly, to meet the goals and the ideas of independence. Since it does
the same work as the ufc or the icrc. We will for Oz. Free is a cost money for them to do that or anything. In the interest of having that in investigation, we say, maybe we should and investigate this. Some of the history back forward. I think we always like it's I understand from again, history of the city in that office is there was a time not far recent past where. Gender identity and orientation are not recognized state or local laws. Protections. The city of Minneapolis dead. So we would take those in because we did. Authorities say you cannot discriminate on those bases. I think that's what we're was really at its height. But I think we get into problems with kind of that independence of role trying to strike a balance between protecting our employees audience. You know, some systems internally, but also being independents.
That's kind of where. My analysis looking at, where are can be beneficial is challenging. The additional questions. Seeing none Kuz will be Thank you so much, MR. CHAIRMAN counselors who in purposes of the public, if anybody wishes to speak later after our 3rd presentations, please come forward and sign-up of the sign-up sheet. And now we're going next. Hear a presentation from. Davidson. Trips. Co-founder and director of the National Women's Defense League. She is going to speak with us from Upper State, New York. And we're going to pull her up here on the screen. Shortly. Yes. We can hear you. Leslie, you MAY have to sound from your spot so she can hear you. Okay. Go ahead. Thank you. Thank you. Chair the CHAIRMAN Its members of the Rules Committee and
working Group. My name is and it isn't rates. I'm here on behalf of the national interest Anslee a non-partisan organization whose mission is preventing harassment and protecting survivors, research, policy and advocacy. And I appreciate the opportunity to speak with you all tonight about these proposed reforms. I apologize. I'm not there in person. The council Haitian and wto review the proposed summaries of recommendations for structural procedural reforms. We approach that worked through 2 lenses first as experts and policy and process. And second as advocates for those whose courage has brought these issues into public light. Many of the proposed steps creating independent oversight providing multiple reporting channels and mandating regular training aligned with what we
see is affected models across the country. These are strong evidence-based practices that if implemented properly could strengthen compliance accountability within the city government. Based our review and wto recommends 3 priorities to continue to be central to any reform. Required buys third-party support for reporting investigations resolution. We appreciate it than a recommendation of the working group is to centralize the investigative authority and ultimately create independent human resources board. Investigations involving senior officials must be handled by an entity that is independent of elected officials and city employees influence. Hiring process for third-party support. Jen, for any existing conflicts of interest with elected
officials or senior staff. Unbiased, independent investigation, her events, conflicts of interest and increases employees, confidence that cases will be handled fairly letting it conflicts of interest in handling of harassment. Complaints is a foundational and non-negotiable component any effective interest for the process. Established multiple confidential reporting options and deal supports the effort to expand reporting tool and believes that the employees must have multiple confidential options to report misconduct. The current summary provides for the implementation of the single reporting system. We would urge the working group to include additional options. Best practices show that offering several channels such as online forms. Initial hotlines designate hr
oversight contacts inside a direct supervision significantly increases reporting and reduces fear of retaliation. A single reporting past can deter complaints, especially when the lusher answers in position authority. Unified intake system supported by clear escalation rules. Entry esta gators will help ensure that new report is los to Lee or mishandled. Ensure survivor confidentiality retaliation, protection and public transparency. The recommendation is currently under review. Do not explicitly address protections for survivors confidentiality. Retaliation, prevention or provide for the public transparency. These 3 components are not optional. They are essential. Policies that protect survivor privacy while ensuring transparency for the public are operational necessities for function,
complaint process they will be believed and protected. While see that the system works regular anonymous reporting on Several cities now with these annual transparency report summarizing the number of complaints outcomes and corrective actions without disclosing personal details. This practice both bills internal and external competence, specially that she says are handled properly and fairly. Overall national incident, sleek supports the concept working various recommendations. But police at the greater specificity is required to get survivors. Clear. Guidance reporting and to ensure strong confidentiality and transparency measures that reinforced public confidence in the system. The need for strong, clear and consistent systems. Indianapolis has
never were critical. Each communication, full tours or information, share evenly confidence in the process or roads. Not because it intent that because the structures themselves are not yet strong enough to guarantee fairness and transparency. Is precisely why these reforms are so important. Strachan survivor and foreign policies don't just prevent misconduct. They prevent confusion, inconsistency and the perception by U.S. Reporting channels are clearly defined when survivors can access updates on cases. Every oversight is independent and data is made public confidence follows naturally. Trust is now restored by statements is restored by seen is system that works the way it should. These are the markers and healthy government. Each of these reforms help shift the
city's culture towards prevention, Paris and public integrity, not just for survivors, for every employee and resident who expects the leadership from their government. They're survivors who came forward, did so believing their experiences could lead to lasting change. That the lesion this council now to turn lessons policy and permission. And have initially and say thank you for the opportunity to continue part of process. We remain ready to assist as Indianapolis Colts, the systems and standards that will make safety and accountability permit features a public service. This proves the Thank you so much. I asked this question earlier and you MAY have some recommendations in this space because you
talked about advocacy for employees. Union employees have greeters. They have somebody that can advocate for them even against the union in that space. When it's, you know, the enterprise. Generally hr protects the enterprise. How could we create? Agreed her style position protection. How can you ensure that confidence back into our employees that they have advocate for them that his number one responsibility is them and not the enterprise. I appreciated that question so much. And I appreciate the time and effort that this council is considering between. True confidentiality and holding that sacred and moving into the idea of a 3rd party entering this space. From our
perspective. Third-party components, having them be fully separate from the inner workings of the government and the political aspect of. Really what what happens when a government is is essential. If you can to having reverse style system, public advocate of some kind on. If you will, that's what we see. A lot other cities is that they had a Position created. We really see that as as an essential component of the s It means eventually, as was earlier that the larger goal is to get to an independent 3rd party as you work out the system and how that could operate effectively. We would suggest creating buses. Position to be intake for complaints and providing that position. We
the authority to investigate and to move forward separately from any of the political interference. Just the Brown is that. All right. Cause live art. Thank you, MR. Chair and thank you for the presentation and where I want to. Continue the conversation is that the concept of the working group of independent board came up frequently. We talked about it multiple occasions and we kept coming back to its own. Like even counselor Beeler was even coming back to is that as soon as these documents leave hr that become public record. And I'm curious representative or recommendations on. How we can. Other examples in the past where you MAY have worked with where? We're able to keep those records private and still have a 3rd party. Thank
you. I'd be interested to know if there is an option too. Have those reports go directly to a 3rd party and not interact with. The internal hr system. I believe I said I had shared several options that other cities have been utilizing his they face similar problems. I think if they if employees coming forward with a complaint, they are assuming that whoever it's going to get to bottom is going investigate is going get the information they share. Part of the reason why having in on option is so important. Being able to send those directly to the investigative body. That is 3rd party that would be our recommendations.
Have his complaints go straight to them so that you bypass the internal system. The additional questions Councilor McCormick, thank you, MR. Thank you as tips for that presentation. I kind of want to ask about butts. Versus like this centralized intake system that you talk about. With the ombudsman, is that someone who as we say? Third-party, we're just talking about h r versus another entity within the city, correct? We're not talking about an independent law firm or another company doing something. Is that correct? That? Yes, that would be your recommendation. There are examples of cities government entities that have designated to specific as
their socialist hub. I would say it. That's better nothing. Having a department or a cabinet level, whatever it might look like for that works for the city. That the soul, purpose of that apartment is to investigate these kinds of complaints that that is our recommendation. And so and so we're looking at this isn't right. The external outside of the party, somebody this is just someone who is independent of the the mayor, executive level. We are supportive of the first 2 recommendations that you put forth understanding that was that you're still grappling with the confidentiality and how you make those work. We are supportive of the first 2 recommendations. Any additional questions. I have
one. This is trib's. We talk about not making reporting mandatory. We're not having a time limit on it and not to forced to complain it to do something. Not comfortable doing. I'm sure you can appreciate that. That might have legal ramifications for the city as an employer. Particularly if a supervisor knows of such a situation and does not raise it because the complainant fields or choose not to raise it. That could expose the city to possible legal jeopardy. So how do you use just who or what are ways to handle that, particularly if the this is something the report comes up, 3, 5, 10 years later with that person
MAY not even long. Longer be an employee of the enterprise. There's a lot of legal issues there that I think difficult to navigate. Yeah, we I agree it will save the best practice of away from the idea of mandatory reporting for these circumstances has really come since then. The Me too movement of the 2007 to 18, we saw a lot of government entities move Tories, mandatory reporting and it did not serve. Big the entity or the survivors. Well, so we are still grappling with how best to manage those 2 pieces as a movement. I would say it's the reason we put so much emphasis on the transparency. And I appreciate the question
earlier about regular reporting and how you would provide idea for the public on what was really happening inside of these cases. There certainly are options to put forward that. From on the stand point on every 3 or 6 months where managers can say they've received reports, even though the complaint does not want to move forward. Where you can just read a city can get a better understanding of the scope of the problem without those individual cases moving forward. Obviously those situations do not allow the city opportunity to remove someone who could be dangerous. And that's that is a balancing act that I wish I had better answer for. Unfortunately. I think that's the best thing you can do is to put forward policies is still the greatest amount of
trust so that survivors more comfortable providing the full information, telling their stories. Any additional questions. Council Nielsen. Thank you, thank you. Mistress for all year and support of our efforts here. Not just tonight, but in the past is why we really appreciate it. As we talk about this process, it was kind of brought up a little bit. What we're hearing from Councilor Beeler. As we look to explore what the appeals process looks like. What? Do you have any good examples in our you know, we continue to review best practices and what's working well, what's not working? Well and other municipalities, do you have any examples or
example, cities or government entities that have done this? Well? So I'll say the the part that we would hope is that you don't need appeals process because the initial complaint is. Is investigated fully that that if there is any kind of punishment outcome feels fair and just and it policies are being updated to ensure that whatever slip through the cracks is limited to the best of. The government's ability. The appeals process we think is a vital component, both 4 of the complainants and for those who are shoes. Pure, for fairness, we think it is awesome point that it be separate from the St the to the original investigation and more than happy to pull some examples. Ensure that wave with a working group that rules Committee. I don't think anyone has gotten it perfect yet. Don't think there's any any government study that is, but he's unsure that going through this process. Results in the kind of fairness and
makes everybody. Or just in time. But we are making strides and providing the opportunity to learn more about and appeal and see somebody else come in with another perspective has never backfired so far. There bit. You're just following Thank you for that. So is it your recommendation that? That anyone at any point, right, that a complaint or accusation would could go through the appeals process, right? I think sometimes whereas we're grappling with, you know, that building out the policy and the procedures for robust anonymous reporting system. Right? There's obviously a chance, right? We're dealing with water lawn while large numbers that there will be some that are just either
errors or whatever it be. So I think as mask for you in your continued to that analysis, just how well that is, how well that is spelled out so that obviously nothing slips through the cracks and that every determination is is. Given it the proper notification of an appeal. I think that that's as I'm kind of thinking about can very supportive of the non U.S. Reporting tool. We have a situation where there's a number and a place how we are able to tease that out in unsure both due process and good communication with those who remained those those complaints. So I would appreciate that. So thank you. We will happily a detail as the as we can as we can make it. I will say the other components that you the
council are even discussing. You know, keeping survivors up to date about their how their cases are moving forward, making sure that they have a solid contact. They can go back to the questions. Those are all pieces that added to the feeling of trust and support where? Standard appeals process becomes part of it and it doesn't need an additional set of circumstances surrounding it. They're all part of the same best practices. Additional questions he's Thank you, MR. CHAIRMAN and thank mistress for coming before us today. One of our recommendations and number 5, the was creating universal harassment, free work environment and something similar here the written. A
document that you gave to us. Outside of that we contract with fall under direct supervision of the enterprise. How can we? Any kind of reach over organizations that we don't necessarily have a contractual relationship with. I to hear your ideas or thoughts on that. So the there are a number of great things that appreciate you all are considering. Adding these 3rd parties is how it will be. Call them. What it is to ensure that any vendor that contracted to work. A city has their own harassment policy for their employees. And making sure that anybody who is coming operating in inside government property
understands that if something happens, they also had access to some of these reporting systems hotline, the state fully program. Allowing them access, though, is those institutions as well, depending on there on their position and how they're interacting with the governments are the places that we would say are the best places to start. So really making sure that. That the city is working with organizations and vendors that operate within the same kind of value system on this issue that you are all putting forward is the best place. That as Salvation. Any additional questions seeing none. This is trips. Thank you so very much. Appreciate your time. Hopefully we'll be able to continue working with you as we move forward. Thank you. Next, in a final presentation last but not least. Tracie Justice from Society for Human Resource Management. We'll
give a presentation. Need a five-minute break. Please take it. All right. We're going to started here. If this just if you introduce yourself the floor is yours. All right. Good evening, CHAIRMAN And committee. Thank you for having me here. My name is Tracy. Just this. I am director of government affairs for in the Sharm. And I want to make sure that I provide this clear loud and clear that I'm providing hr perspectives for educational purposes. So everything that I talk about today, it's recommended to speak with your legal counsel to confirm if these perspectives make sense for your organization. Oh, Sorry tell you PRESIDENT Nixon. Our mission with Andy. Sure up the sure. And certain advances the human resource profession in
central Indiana by developing strategic business partners, their comprehensive programming and collaborative development opportunities. And our vision is transforming human resources throughout central Indiana as a premier provider of human capital management resources. Next slide. So regards to the summary of recommendation for structural and procedural reforms in Indianapolis, Marion County, City County, Human Resources, investigations. It sure is neutral on the recommendations. We respect of the taxpayers decisions as well as the council to make the decisions that however, the question here is to consider for everyone to consider as you're for me, your policies is what structural safeguards are necessary to ensure a chart
independence from political influence. And we've I've heard you all talk about that today. But that is a consideration for the council. What charged you give to your hr to park it. It's it's really what the fines that so we're going to talk about the hr charts role in organization employee and Labor relations strategy. So when you look at the role of hr, it was from tactical to strategic partnership. Chart isn't just about the transactions, about payroll benefits, hiring the sizes that insurance stands for the Society for Human Resources Management. Just a case. Okay. I apologize for that. So sure that the sizes that hr must elevate its role to stick to a strategic one. That means a line. People
practices with organizational strategy, contributing to the business or local government outcomes. So I also provided here on the power point slides, a different topics that you can look at. If you go to Google because of course I was in and give you a full a full, you know, 100 page report, but giving you a place where you can start of to do a little bit of research. What are these your hr department to do that next. Slide driving change and transformation. A chart is central in leading organizational change because people are the asset. So check and change involves capabilities which are skills, culture systems and behaviors.
And so hr is part of of driving that change and transformation. Next slide linking workforce and business strategy. Hr must ensure the workforce is aligned with the organization's strategic goals, not just the fill-in current rules but enabling future direction. And then also hr is responsible for building culture capability and employee experience. Or, however, I should say that charges role is is important in shaping that work for a work environment. Fostering culture, enabling learning and development creating the conditions for employees to thrive. So we think about a chart. This is what a charge role in an organization. It is. Now local government. There is a bit of a nuanced
because public chart does differ from private private Sector h r. So public. And so its ultimate duty is to balance compassion with compliance. Compliance is the floor writes with responsibility, making sure that everybody within the organization understand their different right because every role has has have rights and that trust with transparency. We'll talk about the constitutional protection. So when a chart in public sector is thinking up considering that strategy. Unlike private sector, hr public sector hr operate under constitutional law because government employers are state actors because local government, our arms is in our of the of the state of the state government. This means every employment policy must respect the following protected rights for
all U.S. Employees. First Amendment Freedom of Association and expression. So understanding that public employees retained the right to form personal romantic and social relationships and to speak freely outside the scope of their official duties. Another constitutional right, the 14th Amendment prime right to privacy into process. Government cannot intrude arbitrarily into employees. Private lives, Newark, discipline them without fair process and a legitimate governmental interest and then the equal protection clause policies must be applied equally. So let's be applied uniformly for everyone within the organization. So you MAY regulate the conduct that affects operations, but you can't police their private life without demonstrable
connection to the work itself. So public sector, hr professionals as going through their process is the things that that they're responsible of considering is evaluating whether personnel action could implicate constitutional rights. Provide process. Safeguards notice and opportunity to respond before imposing discipline ensure policies like nonfat news station, social media rules for off-duty conduct coat are narrowly tailored to legitimate business or governmental interest. And that document those decisions served as an operational necessity. So with the policies being created, you're not simply sale. We don't want, you know, you can't make a blanket statement. You have to make sure that if if if it's something like not threaten station, social media rules are often we conduct.
You're giving the reason why year. Why don't want you know the employees to do certain gauges certain activities. Now key key, sure guidance highlights for building a respectful and inclusive work policy. Number one, things policy architecture sure does offer a sample of a policy on their Web site. When you're a member of sure you have access to 2 policies, all the template for hr professionals. Course, you tweak it to the organization's needs. It has the size. That employee handbook should be reviewed and updated to reflect harassment, anti-discrimination laws and the training requirements and they suggest policies clearly define harassment. Define what discrimination looks like to find retaliation and make sure
you're protecting individuals who report good faith. So the policy as as as your employees are reading the policies, they should feel that they're going to be protected through that handbook. You want to make sure that it's clear least stipulated what's allowed and what's not allowed and then make sure that there's whistleblower protections. For the complaint investigation processes within the policy. They outline sure outlines of the best practices for how to strengthen of complaint procedures. So you want to make sure that there's multiple channels for reporting that there's confidentiality avoidance of retaliation so that employees trust the system. And they also shared also covers investigation. How investigation should be handled whole process code of conduct and forsman and not to screw it up. Just not
discriminatory discipline as key elements of your your policy. So you want to make sure that that's clearly understood what the vision Investigation is going to look like with the Code of conduct enforcement is what the discipline is. You want to ensure that the policy is preventing hostile environments and bullying? Stresses that prevention goes beyond what? What's legally required, right? So compliance of you want to make sure that you that hr has the ability to not just say what's not allow, but what the culture, you create a culture that. That prevents hostile environment and prevent bullying. They advise organizations explicitly it staff of the employers policy against discrimination, harassment and bullying and that the
requirement to act if they experience or witness it. So that has to be something that's within your policy, making sure everyone knows that it's their responsibility everybody has a role and responsibility to making sure that if a workplace states universal universally free of harassment is that everybody has a role. Some policies I have seen have included. If you don't report or if you don't act on what you see or if you experience it, that that can actually lead to disciplinary actions leading up to grass for termination because organization has the of the responsibility to ensure that they're doing everything that they can. But of the organization has to know what's happening. What's going on? If the training and communication sure underscores
need for ongoing training. It can't be just the one and done. It has to be tailored to different roles. Understand the dynamics of your organization and making sure that you consider all the different rules and that you You apply the policy to those different rules. So people under so your employees understand it from a full perspective, they recommend clear accessible communication of policy rights and procedures and that leadership visibly supports it. So they have to see examples of leadership. Showing that they respect the policies as well. Alignment with strategy culture. Sure. Plus Utley in explicitly links that anti harassment and non-discrimination efforts are
part of risk management. They're part of employee engagement is part of creating inclusive culture. It also includes leadership, accountability. So what I thought would be interesting for us really look at what a public employment law case that actually went through process that it be easy that to dissect this case. It's a healthy Kansas from the 10th Circuit Court in 2011. So the facts of this case is that of the plane, if Christie worked as an administrative assistant for 2 Kansas District Court judges, one of the judges allegedly one of the judges allegedly sexually harassed her over nearly 10 years, including not consensual, touching, fond fondling forced kissing The state of Kansas
for harassment under title 7. The legal issues and holding the case. The Pentagon to principal issues. First the court had to look at was the it was a person, an employee because that matters whether the how it's processed under title 7 and then of the second a principal issue was the employer liability Fort. So supervisor harassment, whether the state could be held vicariously liable for the judges, harassment under the Supervisory harassment standard or whether the affirmative defense under the farther for city of Boca Burlington Industries, 8 hers apply. I'll talk about that and hearing a little bit. So the whole thing is so what ended up happening in that case is that the 10th Circuit
did not decide on whether the employee was Fulfill the definition of what an employee is. However, the second issue was found and of the state was state successfully invoked the fire Elmhurst, affirmative defense. So the state was not found liable for the judges. Harassment and the court, summary judgment for the state. So what were the legal questions before the court when you think about this case was held even covered by Title vi title 7. So so being able to define what employees, what employee, what an employee is for the city council is important within your handbook as well. The finding what those rules are the state was able to argue that the judge was a personal staff me that that that election. That the plaintiff was a personal staff
and therefore did not was not protected. However, that wasn't really fully worked through because number 2 was found. The question turns on employer liability under title 7 Ce Faragher Elder Framework. Now Elf Earth Framework. If you if you're not familiar with that is the underpinning of the harassment policies here are modernized harassment policies. Anyone single year but with trailer but that those 2 cases, a case of an chair. Real quick, what for what those case that he's what it found. So for the fair for city of Boca Raton, but of the Supreme Court ruled in 1998 the facts this case was that lifeguard, Beth Ann Arbor allege her supervisors created a sexually hostile environment through pervasive comments and
touching the city had a harassment policy but didn't effectively disseminated or enforce it within her department. So really was at the Supreme Court found the city liable because it failed to exercise reasonable care. So this supervisor are trained and the employees that know how to report it. So therefore, the Supreme Court found the liable so the key point here is that just if you have a policy, want to make sure you're doing more than just that floor. For the Burlington industry. First Ehlers. The facts there was that Kimberly Ellis alleged her supervisor made repeated advances and implied that her job de Klerk depended on compliance. However, she was never demoted or fired ruling. The court held that since
there was no tangible employment action and tangible employment action is whether you lose your job, you're fired something that is tangible that can really impact the person. However, she was. She was never demoted or 5. So fate. The court held that says there is no tangible employment action. The company could a certain affirmative defense. It could show bulls promise of the framework. So the affirmative defense. Organization can kinda. Protect itself. So going back to the Elworth framework. Yes, okay. We're on that southeast. 2 cases set out rules for when employers automatically liable. And this is helpful to understand as you're putting your policies together. So for harassment when it can defend
itself. So if a harassment result in a tangible job action like fire into motion, a pay cut, the employer is automatically liable. If the harassment does not result in a tangible job action, then the employer can avoid liability. If it proves it took reasonable care to prevent and correct task harassment. And number 2, the employee unreasonably failed to report or use those procedures. So when we look at what the court decided in how the can says the 10th Circuit sided with the state of Kansas in this particular situation. Not because the harassment didn't happen, but because the state met the fair Ellis defense requirements. So number one, the state have policies and procedures in place to report harassment. There was a anti-harassment policy and they're also mechanisms to complain or
report misconduct. Number 2 health did not report the harassment for many years. She under the conduct for almost a decade before taking action. The court found her to her late to be unreasonable, which satisfied the second part of the defense. So therefore, the state was not found liable. Why is this case significant when you're thinking about putting your hr put year up anti harassment, non-discrimination policy together? Because even one and harassment is egregious and employer, including a stay or public entity, get it fixed liability if they can prove both parts of that fired or l her defense, they acted reasonably to prevent correct to prevent and correct harassment had a policy training staff and the employee failed to use those procedures. What am I emphasize here? This emphasizes that employees
should have strong reporting policies and regular training to meet their legal obligation. What does this also mean? This also means that if a public employee sexually harassed someone, the individual, not the government, not the employer can be personally liable court, not under title 7, but under tort law because they harassment is outside their job duties. So we talk about affirmative defense. What is affirmative defense? City, public entity must be able to have prevention and correction in place. That means clear, accessible anti-harassment policy, multiple avenues for complaint, not just the chain of command props. Well documented investigation. Well documented investigation and that consistent corrective
action. And then number 2, the employees unreasonable failure to report. So like the employee failed to use the reporting system despite having a reasonable opportunity, that's how an employer safeguard itself and no retaliation or intimidation was it's happening to discourage reporting. But of course, that has to be part of the policy. No retaliation or intimidation. So the takeaways for the practices that for employers have clear well communicated harassment reporting procedures, train all levels of staff, including managers and supervisors on what to do. Investigate all complaints properly and thoroughly keep records showing that employee were informed of their rights and how to report misconduct. And the 4 employees know the policy. Read your employer's anti-harassment procedures.
Ask questions if you need to report court document incident early. Even if you fear retaliation. And that's why retaliation and whistleblower protections need to be emphasized. So that that can happen. And then, of course, support if you need to go outside of the chain of command for any reason to what needs to happen for the employees. Thank you so much for reaching out to in the sure and and ready if you have any questions. Thank you so much. And he's just as very informative, any questions from the panel there. Yes, Council Brown. Okay. That was a lot and I am obviously not an hr person or a lawyer. So for clarification, I'm going
to use ai Self as an example here. So because I don't technically have the ability to hire fire anybody but myself. And I and not I hired appointee higher person elected. If I. News media, I swear to GOD not done this please don't use that if Grab employees or say terrible things to counsel employees. They have no legal repercussions against the city. It would just be against me. But harassment itself isn't If I'm just saying bad things to them, they have no legal repercussions against the city and there's no legal protections against the saying bad things about somebody in a criminal court. What kind of protections do they have? They do have protections under the anti harassment policy, but I can't be removed or fired. I have to finished. My term resign. That's why I'm like so
as elected officials, we could do what we want. If we don't directly appoint higher fire, threatened. And there's nothing that can be done until we actually physically touched somebody which could become assault. I'm just trying to crest because there's like 200 elected officials in this county and basically by this. And this is not Obviously, you're not the Supreme Court here that make these decisions. But basically by this, as long as we never higher higher fire actually physically touch somebody, we're can you what we want. No, not I mean this the way that this is being described as that this an appointed position. They never threatened to fire her. But
she was sexually harassed and assaulted. Says he tried to kiss her and all these guns. For 10 years. And there's no legal ramifications. I mean, there could be political ramifications, but there's no legal ramifications. So it are you referring to helpers key? Okay. So in that situation. She wasn't protected because she didn't report it. She didn't report it. She waited 10 years later to report. She said going on for 10 years said went on for 10 years. But she never point they are reported. The first instance, then they're out of luck. Everybody's responsibility to report. So if that happens to you within the workplace, you have to report it. You have to report it. Probably you can't wait 10 years. It took me 18 years to be able to tell my
family that I was sexually assaulted in college. And the only reason I did is because it was forced out of me here. And I get that it that their topics. But what we're talking about, employment law and that looks like that everybody like employees have that responsibility. They must report it. They must disclose it has to happen because then the organization doesn't doesn't have an opportunity to do its responsibility. So you know what? So when you think about that, you know, you think about Trump MAY including trauma, informed. Trauma, informed therapists or trauma informed investigations, maybe having some sort of saying to help with that. However, it is. It is in play a lot. You have to report it. You have to disclose it and because she
did not for 10 years, then, you know, maybe she can look under constitutional laws. And see whether the state well apply there. But it's it's just it's that this is like want to make sure this is not this just makes me in general have less faith in hr systems at all. Because if I have to report exactly when it happens, that happened. That's the world we live in. That's it takes time for somebody to process trauma process. What's going on or even realize sometimes that they're being taken advantage of that in that way. This like is not you. This is just this is now elevate my concern. Even higher because it just seems like there's very few if any protections for city employees from any elected official. And then let alone. If we don't
threaten to hire fire Sunday, demote them not vote to appoint them than theirs like. It. Just. Especially like that its this is like is that this is not you. This is more concerning just hr lawn general being. Super. Poli. To get out of actually protecting people. Just to be charges role is to to protect the employees as well is is is making sure that everyone within the organization understand their rights and responsibilities. So. If you're having trainings consistently. Giving people an opportunity to act out and scenario so they know of or have an idea of or maybe talk about different what it looks like. Then it gives, you know, everyone, an opportunity to speak out. I mean, to share. But because, you know, hr can't do their job. You know,
the organization can't do its job if they don't know about it. So it has to be disclosed. But but I don't feel like I'm understand your question clearly. So so, you know, I know there's a lot of layers to being government right there. We have appointed employees. We have 10 years and we have place. We have all sorts of different levels employees and they were all different because we're elected rights awareness to take us out as the state house issues. So there's a whole level in there. I'm just concerned. Like is what is what is their official a statute of limitations. So I got assault. And on Friday after reported on Monday to a half months to year to I have is What's the reasonable like there's so much to this? That seems so much to put the onus on on somebody who's been.
Victimized. And then go, you didn't do it in a reasonable amount of What's the reason amount of time if the person is employed is? You know, the enterprise is there like that? It's just creating more. This is creating more. Questions for me. And I know I'm not for me when the correctly, but I'm just I'm a little more for gap now, to be honest with on this in the black and the lack of protections. It feels like our employees have it. They don't feel they're not instantly there to report. So this like this and this and this is this is just learning hr law, which I know now this I've never been in that position. So I want I want to thank you for answering his questions. And now I'm just kind of thinking about from other councilors, if you can pull that into a question because just frankly can shock because I want to make it clear that age hr does protect the employees what I'm saying here is that, you know, when you look at the
employees, the employer then survivor and then the complaint and then the respondent. Hr has a responsibility to ensure that lawyer is a compliant. Hr has a responsibility to make sure that the employees understand their rights. And if that's happening. I guess in my opinion, if that's happening, then the hra the new ploy e should start to feel comfortable if. If policies that the policy if the policies being updated in share annually and they're straining die annually. Then the employee will realize their protections because employee is protected, but it? But when it goes to the Supreme Court law, the Supreme Court was the one that came up with that defense yet and said that, you know, that's how you work through it. So if the employers not found liable now the individual becomes liable. So so it doesn't mean that the
victim doesn't have. Other things that they can do. But it just means that the employers no longer liable because they did what they needed to do. Now they can further in another Okay. Hopefully that helps. Is there a way to reconcile this point of a duty to report to what? We would just learn from the prior presentation when they said you should not force anybody to report that the mandatory reporting. Puts the complainant in an odd situation that is or is there a way to reconcile those 2 ports? Honestly, I I don't know if there is, you Because there is a responsibility. Everybody has a responsibility to ensure that workplace is. It's harassment free in order to do that. You know, the person who sees it or experience, it has to disclose
it like a let's use the anonymous reporting and then you're able to create programming or trainings around that. However, how will it organization do what they need to do if they don't know something is happening. So it does become checkey and then you know really the what I presented today was just to give you an idea of how the courts process it right? You know, so. You understand those different nuances when you're putting that policy together. Yeah, it it's mandatory to report. But I see where she's coming from And all right. Councilor Perkins. I think it was German. Just tried to expand a little bit of a discussion that's happened I think our desires to have a workplace where? No form of
rest of this relation happens. I think 2 my colleagues question it underscores for me the need off offering multiple ways reported. Not only multiple ways of reported created the culture and climate. That is acceptable. And if something happens since we cannot always legislate human behavior. The culture and climate is created where you have multiple ways in which you can have your concerns reported. And so I from my colleagues, colleague, I think the issue then becomes how do we work perspective as the council to ensure that we offered multiple ways for reporting. Happened within the Enterprise. My question is, I appreciate your. Really not for us. The role of a child within organization, especially in the public
sector. That it's more than just compliance. It is billed in a culture. I wonder what your position the is. If we were pull the hr out off the enterprise and make it into independent organization, independent entity. What then becomes off the enterprise in helping to build that culture within the organization. I can't really speak to, you know, whether or you know. Charges moved into a separate agencies those tax dollars. And, you know, I you know that. But it really what is the charge that you all have given to hr? What's a charge role? You know, what have they been empowered to do? What authority do they have? If they haven't been giving in, if they haven't been given the power or authority or charge
to be able to do the full job of what hr, you know, requires. Then its hard for hr to do their job. You know, I know that currently hr rolls up to the comptroller. Think that if that's, you know, so. I think it goes back to what charges you get into your hr department. What authority have you given them? What can they do? So that it can be? Clearly understood what their role is so that they can act within the charges been given to them. Does that answer your question? It does. It does. It speaks to the broader. I think the big issue in which were wrestling with and we've been wrestling with this now forward feels like forever for the last year and a half, which is there is a broader
culture issue within the organization and we have gotten to the point after doing this now for a year, we're still wrestling with trust within the organization. And how do address the culture issues that internal to address internal are we to the place now? We need to be its only address to fix some internal issues. So I think really. But the question is not necessarily what's the charge to hr because of the problem. A problem that we've discovered is that whatever the charge was. That there was a point where reported stop. When whatever influence. The report because we're in the situation we're in right now. And so whatever this odd was
clearly something to work. Because we've added 2 addresses over the last year. So we're coming in now to say, okay, how do we address this to reestablish trust within the enterprise to make sure that our employees feel like it's a comfortable place for them to work and that we can have to move the city forward. That's a challenge. What we have right now. The question is how do we do that? Addressing the 7 points that that recommendation from the working group or something else. Was that a rhetorical question? I mean, just want to make sure I you know, I answer she help out and that of his agenda help Thank you, all that state. Culture is culture is a hard thing for Every organization really to be
totally honest I In my opinion, it starts internally. Because sometimes employees within the organizational trust people coming from the outside either. It's really repairing its really working with your workforce and trying to find out, you know, the it looks like there's some studies that are being done from from those studies. That's a great first place to start there and then kind of see what comes out of those studies and and have conversations with with your employees because this is a public sector of the because this is the public MAY be thinking of the strategy of including the employees. A lot more some of the, you know, creating town halls for employees. But honestly,
culture such a tough For private prefer private entities as well. And what sure has a what Sherman's push of pushing for improving culture is, you know, learning how to talk to each other, learning how to have conversations learning how to, you know. How to be human again with each other. That's you know, Sorry. There's not an easy answer. I apologize for that. That's it's a tough fun. Thank counselor comic. Thank you, MR. CHAIRMAN, sort of wanted to jump on tech to this. I think maybe though my 2 colleagues. As an equal part of government. As a council. We are trying to see what we can do and won practiced law and policy to ensure that hr who reports to the executive branch through the executive branch is doing what it needs to. And so we don't charge hr with anything Hartman didn't like the administration. Does
the mayor. That's right. So that executive branch does and we're trying to figure out how we can make a policy to ensure that things go the sort of the way that. We feel the need to get saying that right? Colleagues not or no, yes. So I think that's maybe where the question where the where we're like articulation of what we're trying to ask is. How are how can we do that from our standpoint, right? Because it's a little different. I think. We don't charge her with anything. Maybe there's not answer that right now. Maybe that's something think about talks and colleagues get back to us because they think that's maybe where are where we are because we don't oversee a juror. Okay. Good point. That MAY be do have I sort of I guess a second statement question to the people around it. So things mandatory reporter Ray. And that's what you're suggesting. But we've heard MISS Tribes
and others said we shouldn't. I work in higher education title 9. Mandatory reporter, Sweetie. We're just talking about title 7. So I think has at least a timeline how many we have. But being a mandatory reporter and there's positive and negative how we can do that in is the inspector general that sort of person we go to reporter can be. The advocate for the employee who's reporting something versus. Being there to cover for the enterprise or be more air for the enterprise to knowing like knowing any comments on those 2 sort of things, I guess. The first thank you all have the charge over h r. Okay. That's that. That's tricky. So, you definitely want reach out to my colleagues and and see what. You know from that. And then the second question about mandatory reporting in. Asked
that question, a gun. So I guess my thought is we have some pros and cons on mandatory reporting. And I think part of it is the confidentiality. That not being ready for it to come out. We talked about the timeline. Being amended like you're suggesting mantra. Porter, I know I am under top title 9 and the difference and why. I guess if you can highlight again, widening. Need to be like why you see just having the mandatory reporting. I work in education. I students like I can help you with the problem. I don't know exists. I wish it were my radar. If I were a probably wouldn't be here at the on some beach or traveling all the time. Right? So because I the lottery. But so that thing where we need to have information. Attorneys have the information to make the best decisions and to support the employees in that employer. But then have keep the confidentiality message
like that. Privacy of the reporters as well. Maybe it goes back to the multiple reporting avenues. Because at some point. Something could come out right as You know, as the investigation is getting de Pere. Some of the things that you can think about or what are some of those resources that you probably know could have in place for that, you know, for the victim who MAY be going through this and want some more help. I know counselor up earlier was talking about the a p providing services like that. However, you know, going back to, you know, a charge responsibility in making sure that the organization is compliant and that they're able to deal with issues within the organization. It mandatory reporting is just
necessary. It's part of that it's just part of that. You know, there's no way to really get around that because you can never guarantee full confidentiality. Of course, you chirs responsibility is to make sure that they maintain that at as much as they possibly can. But eventually that's going eventually it can come out some sort of way. It. That's where the emphasis really is on making sure people come in onboarding. They're doing that. You know, part of the onboarding is the training for anti harassment, anti harassment, not discrimination policy, making sure that they know what that is. And then continuing that continuing, making sure that they understand how that works. You know it. And that's part of the stipulation of working with the organization that, you know, they have to
understand the what the employer is supposed to do and if they're going to take that job, that they realize they have a responsibility as well. They have to report. There's really, you know. Just back to that culture, right? Yeah, it really is building that culture because the compliance is just the floor. But you've got to build so much more than that. It's just a compliance policy. Compliance culture. Will that? Yeah, people are going to be scared They're not going to report. They're not going to feel like they're supported. But if there's ongoing training, there's the different ways that you can report it you know, employees understand all of their rights obligation leaders, people in high positions understand
their responsibility and understand that they are considered agents of the organization and understand that if the employers doing all that they can do, but then you have, you know, that some leaders that are going to grow, then they understand that they can be personally liable. So just making sure that everybody knows what their rights are making sure that training is happening. Communication yeah, because you know the employer has a responsibility to make sure that the workplace is harassment, free. And in order to do that reporting disclosure, has to happen. And that's what's important to have these streaks. Everybody knows and understands. All right. Thank you. Council vain. Thank you, MR. Chair and thank you for. The
presentation this evening. When we talk about this Helms case and going through your accounts about title 7 protects employees but not personal employees. Of elected officials. What the fines. Personal of an elected official personal staff. If that particular case. That's, you know, with for Kansas, that's their law. You know, so I'm not sure about Kansas. Kansas law state laws. However, you would look at Indiana state laws and Sable. You know what this Indiana State say about employees with who's considered employee and who's not considered an employee. And then make sure that those roles are defined in the employee handbook. But that that was the case that the state law that decided that. So it seems like in this
Holmes was. Suing for damages. And I have to assume she what's going on here. Because for damages she was suing under title 7. Okay. So it seems so. Does that case affects Indiana. It's it's case law that you can look at to say, ok, what questions that we have for Indiana that happened in Kansas. But what can we look at here in the state of Indiana? What are some things that we need to consider here? So I did. I intentionally didn't pull Indiana state law because that, you know, I didn't want to get too close you know, to what happened? You know, I didn't want you know, get into that. But I I chose the case law that looked at the different nuances of. Some of the things the hr will probably look at one year putting a policy because we
just don't take a policy and just create the policies, say, ok, here it is. We look at the policy look at different case laws that could impact what could happen in your place. And you start thinking strategically say, ok, maybe we should come up with a training program that talks about these different things. I didn't too deep into Kansas State law really understand the person I get I was a criticism. It's more just. I kind of feel like sometimes we're comparing apples and oranges where or a municipal. Local government and we're trying to craft what our city level policy will be on hr, at least. Try to beef about more than what it is now. Added additional protections. So I think that's kind of what I'm struggling with. Here is. You know, I kind of the same Vice PRESIDENT Where it seems like
that there's maybe no protections when obviously that that cannot be the case. Like practically speaking, that cannot be the case. But what are the protections that if we pass protections here? Is that contrary to what? Ruled I would think it would be. But I feel like we're you know, there's so many. So much is being said right now. It's hard to rationalize and come up with what a coherent hr policy could be. Adequately protects. City employee is I know trying to avoid particular cases here. At the end of the day, when everything goes up to the 25th floor and goes up to the mayor's office. And there's a track record. There were a car has made recommendations in the past. Somehow the news
media gets a hold of it. When council doesn't get a hold of that. And hr recommendations are not followed. And the past, I think that's where we're trying to rationalize and for go and our head. How do we create that independent? Accountability. That is void of the political. Process. And I don't even know if there's a question I'm just sitting here trying to rationalize all this and have it make sense in my brain. That we have to have protections for employees would have to have the independent accountability. Neither Jack here for a minute. And MAY I ask Council beeler to step forward again? Some simple questions not to ask for a legal opinion in a public forum. But just to see if the the question that's been raised is does this Helms
case apply in Indiana and the nuance of law is just a 10th circuit. We're in the 7th circuit so it doesn't automatically apply. But the question is, what is the 7th circuit holding on that issue? I for homes help our homes with Helms has the 10th Circuit. So its not applicable here, the 7th circuit, but the general principles us as you described a crack to As of today, we can't fly his startled reported so a report has to be made and there are time Frazier that it wasn't within which to them or civil liability. Let's start with criminal as a whole different ballgame. But yeah, there there. Report has to be made to initiate a complaint and so a liability. Is there a statute of limitations Indiana for claims? It's 2 years. Yes, from a currents or knowledge
of. From occurrence. The you know, and this is maybe a question posed to both of you. Bigger public employer. It is different. Obviously. And our employees not only have rights as a complainant, but also as an accused. You have enhanced rights as well because your employer's, a state actor. As a criminal defendant as Miranda rights. And I know just enough about employment law to get in trouble here. So correct me if I'm wrong, but does And accused person also have. Miranda like rights. When they're accused by the employer to the state action and you could fire discipline me. So that's a state action against me personally. And therefore, I have enhanced rights like Miranda, where I can question your evidence. I want representation. You can't force me on the spot to do
something. Does that come into play and our discussion tonight? It doesn't want careful because they're very different rights like the Miranda rights, the of the criminal side of things is because individuals liberty is at stake for to do jail time. Things like that. So they're different higher protections when individuals, liberty could be taken away from her them. On. But yes, I mean, there there is the interest in protecting, especially during the course of the investigation. All parties involved, of course, going to the game. What a complaints made. What we believing the complaint is that we asked them to make sure they feel safe for the environment was being investigated because the accused does have a right for a thorough investigation to
see what's happened here. That includes and really that what I would say impacts mostly it for practical assistance not necessarily a legal, a legal perspective. Is a lot of this is critical on witnesses who are in the workplace who see these things. If they think that these are going to taking drug out and they want to be the witnesses of all people should be in on this as well. So we have a really, really have an interest protecting them because that's how it's really our best evidence and how we can figure out what has occurred in the workplace. So that's where all is that gets into the yes, of course, has a right for us internally to figure out what's happened. We had to determine if a violation has occurred. Therefore, it is so light discipline appropriate. So that is the that will hire doctrine applied to a public employee. Yes. I mean, every play at the city is that will employ okay. Thank you. Thank
you. Cause a heart. You had your hand up. I didn't encounter vendors alluding to it at the end of his comment questions I to summarize it in other ways that. Others ask recommendations even printed recommendation that you mentioned. You have a larger handbook or recommendations guy that you can bring with them. That's okay. To direct us to look at situations where a charge making recommendations to leadership. Pollution is not taking those recommendations Ultimately the truth comes out that. There was wrongdoing to the individual. I guess that's the part that I still seeing that gap here is that in cases that we've had with that being the
specifics that were reported to the highest level and they were just disregarded. And that's the policy component that. We don't have answer for now. Are you all part the trainings anti? Ok? So then. Leader that we're talking about is also part of the trainings as well. Everybody is Anderson part of that race. I mean, you know, that. It's it's it's it's it's it's it's really it's. It's a tough situation to really try figure out. I don't know if you all can do something, but, you know, on behalf of in the sure that, you know, I can't really. Say, you know, I can't really look at the recommendations and say yea or nay just because, you know, you of our stance where we are. However. That that that's a great question that you all are asking. How do you go
about that? How do you you go about that? I was an hr director for local for local government at one point one of the things that we did for the elected officials that if the elected official was considered doing something wrong, then they can take it up to the ball and they can take up to the board. But you know, Washington Township is smaller. So it's not this many people that, you know, a person can take it up. Employee can take it up to the board. End to go over that person's head I wonder what can you all do you know, legally or, you know, you know because because you're asking a very great question. How do you go around that? And that's something that you'll probably have really think about. What can you do it's not something you can do internally
internally? Is this something legally to change how that works? Because the employee as an employee, you do have a responsibility to make sure that everyone that comes to work feel safe and they don't feel like they Alright risk for any kind of harm. And that's the responsibility for every employer and h r is the one that would lead that charged with the culture, building the culture and making sure it's not just compliance. But if that can't and I would have that the question back to what can you do legally? Because, you know, there's really nothing I And that's what makes it tough. You know? Yeah, and this is a continuing discussion We appreciate that. MISS Justin says offered to continue being engaged with us as we move
forward because as we it's obvious, these are some of these are unanswerable questions at this stage. So as we all learn more, hopefully we'll see. Get a little more guidance. Any final questions for justice that I see your hand up at one time Council. It. It's just it's thank you so much for your time. We appreciate it very much. Now we're going to turn to the public speaking part of tonight to take a few comments. If there are any. And we're going to have but there's a statement to be read. First. As we move to the public comment portion of the debate for it. There's no proposals. But for this presentations, we would like to remind council members and the public of the few ground rules order for everyone to have a fair chance to speak and be heard. It is important
that we each observe the following rules. First. Each speaker will be limited to 2 minutes. Second, it any public comments most reasonably relate to the agenda item under consideration. 3rd speakers who stray from the items under consideration or become unduly repetitious MAY be asked to move on to their next point. Include their comments finally attendees who cause disruptions that prevent the council from proceeding through today's agenda in a reasonably effective manner will be removed. Please remember that some types of threatening speech or Tyson to violence are not protected by the First Amendment at And we will deal with those issues they come But we do not think they will. Because Nielsen MR. Like make a motion to better rules this evening. I move
speakers time limit for comment for this meeting before minutes instead of 2 minutes. Any discussion? Hearing none. All those in favor of amending the rules of 4 minutes per speaker say Aye. I opposed. Hearing none. Uh, eh. 4 minutes with a timer. You use your. IPhone. What have you? And for speaker, please introduce yourself and provide zip code. Thank you, MR. CHAIRMAN Man's the clarifying question regarding this evening. Discussion this evening before becoming sure you all have this evening have discuss recommendations. Are those recommendations to go back to the administration for them to implement were would you the rules Committee writing ordinance to the
impasse for self? Called the explain the next steps after conclusion of tonight's meeting. Good evening. Members of the committee. My name is Morgan a former employee of the Hawks. That administration I come before you tonight to offer you a perspective from staff. I lead the office of Sustainability from MARCH 2021. To SEPTEMBER 2024. And managed to to 3 I regularly and in communication with multiple current staff members as well. I want to speak to you first Hansen that I want to speak to tonight because I've seen firsthand how firsthand how cheaply broken the culture inside dogs that administration stunts, real reform is desperately needed.
Not just an h r or how reports are handled across the entire work environment. Much as much of what's been reported in the news has focused on the past. On mayor set and former members of his leadership team. But I can tell you from experience. That the same culture that allowed that harassment and abuse to happen hasn't gone away just alive and well. And the city County building. When first stories came to light back in 2024, concerns about the lack of systems to protect current staff from happening Remind you, I left managed 3 people. The same leaders remain in place. Brush off those
concerns. When I pushed back on that, it can clear that their focus was not on control. It was on controlling the situation rather than fixing the This is why I'm concerned with many of these recommendations discuss tonight and I urge you to adamantly pursue and independent third-party selection. I know it's really complicated. Can be done even more. This conversation here this last conversation happening just really reinforce the right? Like so many of you have have danced around this that like hr doesn't actually protect the people. I reported my own instances of experience, inappropriate behavior to hr. This was before the speak. Fully system was in place because was leaving very pregnant at the time. I had
too much going even trying go through that route. Ones that have not reported. Hr eventually reached out to me and asked me to chair story. After car on the kind of just forgot about me. I reached back out. I followed asked for what, hey, what's happened over just getting around to it. And then nothing. I've heard. That's not a one-off and cents. And also want reiterate little bit of Missouri conditions from the National Womens Defense League because it really come ability behind these recommendations. The council should require that measures are put in place to make sure they're implemented. And 2 full to commit to a full transparency. You know, we've heard a lot about like, oh, we can't talk about this because we jeopardize the individual and then and then the minute that
word I can try say right now that's just. But yes, let's hero. There are ways to provide transparency to instill trust with the public. Finally, I don't want to add that more robust public engagement season on this effort. I'm really disappointed with the turnout tonight. And but I know it is really hard to gauge with members of the public, whether it be like these employees or others. I've done that job before, but it is your responsibility to make sure people are here to tell you how they feel. It is not their responsibility come another day to figure out when going down. But whatever, you know. People care about it. And I am very involved and I almost missed that this meeting was
happening. It was not publicized widely enough. I would urge you to reconsider how this public engagement going. And also not to rely on these working groups. The report outs from them, the survey, whatever it is because it's coming from. People that reports of major report to 25. I know you all know what that means. You're not getting transparent information, speak to the employees directly figure out make that happen because it's that they're not ok. I really appreciate all of this work. On this. Thank you, Morgan. Any additional? Members of the public wish to speak. All right, hearing none. Obviously, What I this is my opinion. That is I
foresee our future steps here. Weve that just a lot of information this evening. We have a lot we've compiled and studied ourselves. And I think we're going to have to distill all of this information and we find our recommendations keep publicizing them to get public engagement. As we've seen, there are very complicated legal issues involved and this. So we're going to be working with hr and legal department. On how to set things up. Also, a big 800 pound gorilla or the fiscal issues raised by all of this. Creating certain agencies are independent boards. There's a dollar figure assigned to that. Not that this is if we're going to find things with dollars. But that is a steward of taxpayer money. That is an issue that comes into the calculus. So in the
with regard to the increased publication, information will will will increase that. We, too, are personally. I am very surprised that the thin attendance this evening. I expected a full room and even put notice about having additional sheriff's this evening. Obviously, that was uncalled for. So we hope to increase exposure and get more input. And we do take input from anybody and everybody from every direction we will be talking to the working groups. We do. We'll be talking professional organizations like Sherman, the National Womens Defense League. Because we do not want to just were carried out illogical bubble within the enterprise. So that's kind of where we'll be going from here any further closing comments
by anybody in the U.S. Counselor. Thank you, MR. CHAIRMAN, just a quick question for are turning from the city in terms of the end of the year. Final report from the employee survey. Do you anticipate when that will be made available? What the council have access to that and I think really echoing the present or the speaker just share. That is important for us to hear from the employees. And I think that's the way that we could hear from the employees. Public You said end of the year. That's DECEMBER. 25th or require to the that by the end of the year, I can try to find more specificity, have not charge of the contract with rep. Tell us that I can
ask them. Any other comments. Hearing. None. We are