##VIDEO ID:Z40w0PLtqoc## city of International Falls order it is 5:30 Monday November 18th if you can all join me in pledging allegiance to the flagge alce to the flag of the United States of America and to the Republic for which it stands one nation under God indivisible with liy and justice for all Lisa I loved that that is the loudest we've ever had the Pledge of Allegiance cuz usually these are Committee of the whole meetings that people come in like this and we don't do that so thank you um first item is the roll call please note all members of the council are present uh first item on the agenda would be to approve the agenda to the best of my knowledge we don't have any additions or deletions so the chair would entertain a motion to approve the agenda I'll make that motion we have a motion by councelor Holden do we have a second second second by councelor Wagner any discussion hearing none call the question I I I I and I'll vote Yes motion carries 5 Zer next we go to uh the approval of the minutes first one we have is a uh special Committee of the whole uh November 4th chair would entertain a motion to approve that I'll move we have a motion by councelor Kaylor second second by councelor Holden any any discussion hearing none call the question I I I I no vote Yes motion carries next we have a uh public hearing for the Fifth Avenue West uh meeting chair would entertain a motion to approve that move to approve we have a motion by councelor buler second we have a second by councelor Wagner any discussion hearing none call the question I I I I I'll vote Yes motion carries 5 Z go to our last uh regular city council meeting chair would entertain a motion to approve those I'll make that motion motion by councelor Holden do we have a second I'll second second by councelor buler discussion hearing none call the question I I I I I'll vote Yes motion carries 5 Z next we have the minutes from our committee of the whole meeting last Monday chair would entertain a motion to approve those so move we have a motion by councelor wigner second second by councelor Kaylor any discussion I would just like to note that a vast majority of you are here because of one of the items that we had on the committee of the whole meeting the reason that uh I had asked to have it on our regular city council is so that we could have discussion about it um I'm sure most of you guys are here about the the jail um or not I'm sorry not the jail the police station um we're going to be having discussion about that later we're going to be providing information to the community of where we've been how we've gotten to this point uh the council is not ready to move forward with any action and I'm not saying that because the room is filled I'm saying that because we've got do doing our due diligence to understand the project so when we get to that point on the agenda we'll talk it through please give us an opportunity to explain where we've been how we've got to this point and then after uh after that we will definitely take questions from the audience so we have a motion and a second uh call the question I I I I and I'll vote Yes motion carries 5- Z next we go to our special city council meeting of November 12th chair would entertain a motion to approve that I'll make that motion second we have a motion and a second motion by councelor Holden a second by councelor Wagner discussion hearing none call the question I I I I I'll vote Yes motion cares 5 Z next we go to our canvasing board meeting of November 14th chair would entertain a motion to approve that so I'll make that motion we have a motion from councelor Holden even though it was longer but still counts do we have a second second you totally got thrown out of that one w got a second by councelor Wagner I have another chance you you will all right so we have a motion and a second any discussion hearing none call the question I I I I and I'll vote Yes motion carries 5 Z next we go to the payments and claims we have uh City transfers going to the permanent Improvement fund of $66,667 66 that's coming evenly out of the 601 water and the 603 sewer in the amount of 33 ,3 $33.33 we have funds going to the cap reserve for Capital outlay the 403 fund coming from the 601 water in the amount of $ 4,693 and the 603 sewer Fund in the amount of $ 5,874 25 for a total transfers of $87,200 91 accounts payable International Falls claims of 55495 67 airport uh board claims of $517 89 and just a interesting uh situation of a donation that uh was received that had to go into a second account uh we have another International Falls Library board claims of 1,000 even and Airport major Capital claims of$ 366,924 even for a total accounts payable of $927,500 hi all hi all right and I'll vote Yes motion carries 5- Z next we go to audience is there anyone in the audience that has anything to bring forward that's not on the agenda hearing none thank you please 108 I actually did not here to talk about the police department um I have two two questions actually the first one is uh about the airport um and the money left over after the covid payments by my calculation after talking with Betty there's roughly 850 900 Grand sitting in the airport um operating expense fund is that accurate you would have t Betty or the airport Commission on that please thank you mayor the airport commission is going to better Define that however the airport commission just did tell us at their last meeting that 569 th000 of that will be used for their maintenance and operations for 2025 okay so to clarify further than that you would need to speak with the airport secretary um and Airport Manager Kyra and Thor okay and my other question is um can you I couldn't make it um you had that special council meeting I think on November 4th can you explain the Utility Fund that you're looking at a Utility Fund we're not looking into anything it was Utility Fund it would be better to have the city uh engineer here to to discuss that it is a fund that the city may be able to utilize to do work on our water treatment center um be behind that we don't have a Utility Fund as of the this moment correct well for clarification mayor thank you the Utility Fund report that was presented covers the water fund the sewer fund and the storm sewer fund and that report laid out what it would look like over the next 10 years for Capital understanding what the rate increases in rates would need to be to sustain the each of those funds okay because currently we we have sewer and water but this would be adding storm water into it and it would be a Utility Fund that would be financed to be able to do the work at the water treatment center and that money would come off the levy no no no no no so everything that we're currently paying which includes storm sewer maintenance would does not pres who does storm sewer maintenance now stor sewer maintenance is currently in the general fund 101 yeah and it should be its own separate fund as designed and not designed as described by the utility rate study that should be its independent own fund and we've never had a large um amount in that fund but now with the MSA and moving towards being regulated to um do some of those things ourselves versus having the state regulation is why we need to go to a storm sewer fund okay I got you okay to clarify that there is or is not right now the main question that brought there is not currently a storm sewer fund cool thank you any other any other audience question please mayor comments would you like reserved until discussion please please all right we will any other uh items that are not on the agenda all right we'll go down to the consent agenda these are uh 2025 license renewals we have the uh license renewals for curb appeal lawn care it's a snowall plow license Dairyland operations DBA Duncan and Baskin Robbins it's restaurant license Dollar Tree uh Stores um Dollar Tree 30 694 a light uh fireworks license DNS Pizza doing business as Domino's Pizza a restaurant license Kennedy's cab uh city cab and transport LLC a taxi license Lars Lumber and plowing a snow plow license Sarah Nevan a massage therapy uh massage individual license and Steve boam construction a snowpow license chair would entertain a motion to approve the consent agenda make that motion we have a motion by councelor Buller second second second by councelor Kaylor all right we have a motion and second call a question I I I I I'll vote Yes motion carries 5 Z I'll stay next we go to uh licenses that may include tobacco or liquor CP uh capl uh retail LLC doing business as Joe's quickmart uh it's a 32 off sale license cigarette license gasoline pump license and a restaurant license capl uh retail LLC doing business as Joe's quickmart a restaurant license fireworks license gasoline pump license restaurant license and a 3-2 offsale license Edwards oil uh Incorporated doing business as Little Brown Jug cigarette license offsale liquor license on on the Rocks LLC uh on sale liquor license a Sunday liquor license restaurant license jukebox license pool table license and an offsale liquor license uh Orton motor uh Incorporated doing business as Orton's International Falls senic a cigarette license gasoline pump license and 32 offsale license and Timber Pins bowling center an offsale LI or I'm sorry an on sale license restaurant license bowling alley license pool table license and Sunday liquor license chair would entertain a motion to approve those move we have a motion by councelor Buller do we have a second second got a second from counselor Holden motion and second any discussion hearing none call the question I I I I I'll vote Yes motion carries 5 Z thank you Walt next uh approve extending offer of employment for the part-time uh seasonal parks and Facilities assistant position the chair would entertain a motion to approve that hire for Miranda chal move to approve we have a motion by councelor Buller mayor if I me correct got the oh I'm on the back I'm sorry Evelyn Perkins I'm sorry Evelyn Perkins motion by councelor buler okay second second by councelor Wagner discussion hearing none call the question I I I I I'll vote Yes motion carries 5 Z yeah that was almost awkward I almost hired someone that wanted to resign yeah next we have a uh IGN know and accept a letter of resignation from emergency medical technician chair would entertain a motion to approve that so moveed we have a motion by councelor Wagner second second by councelor Holden discussion hearing none call a question I I I I'll vote Yes motion carries 5 Z next uh approve allow necessary expenses for up to six ambulance Personnel to attend the arrowhead EMS conference Expo in duth January 15th through the 19th this is a budgeted item chair would entertain a motion to approve that I'll make that motion we have a motion by councelor Holden do we have a second a second second by councelor buler discussion hearing none call a question I I I I I'll vote Yes motion carries 5 Z next we have uh Public Works committee recommendation to approve the purchase of a hydraulic snowblade Pusher with the funding from Street Capital outway chair would entertain a motion to approve that I make that motion we have a motion by councelor bowler second second by councelor Wagner discussion would we be receiving this this year already or is this one of those items that's going to be backed up for a year no it won't be backed up for a year we'll have to be using the the old one yet for a little bit but uh the reason didn't do a trade on it is because it's not tradeable I mean it's it's salvageable enough if somebody we're going to put it on Surplus equipment traed because it's basically pretty tight yeah okay get out of it that way but otherwise no I didn't sound like it'd be much more than we might have use a couple times this year should we get SN and we have up that we can hear back here okay otherwise it'll be here soon we yeah it's it's not one of those one year in advance things that it's manufactured and ready to go once you purchase it so it'll be fine okay perfect all right we have a motion and a second call the question I I I some vote Yes motion carries 5 Z next Committee of the whole recommendations so this is the followup of the present presentation that we received from um Krauss Anderson this last Monday I want to give everyone an update of how we got to where we're at because I think that over the course of time things have gotten uh kind of lost and we have all the documentation of this so if anybody wants to get more information we're more than willing to share it we're not hiding anything about this well we're at a point where we we have no trust in government and so we're trying to be as transparent as we POS possibly can on how we've gotten to this point on uh early 2022 myself the city administrator and councelor Krauss were invited to go and meet with the county about their new jail the the city had worked with uh with the county for many years on being part of the jail part of the law enforcement center and moving forward in that capacity we had a handful of meetings we had discussions and the question that we had was how much is the city going to get charged to move forward with the county at that time early 2022 they didn't know what the costs were going to be on the the jail the facility so we didn't have an answer for that on October 18th 2022 we had met with the with Kent corbetts which was the program manager for the the jail and the project that they were doing there they were asking the city to provide um upfront costs of 819,000 and uh 100 $89,100 for upfront to be part of the project with the with the um the jail above and beyond that there would be an additional 11% of soft costs that were unknown and there was going to be another 12% of remodel costs that were going to be unknown that was in October 20 2022 which we had already wrapped up our budget for the following year budgets are have to be into the state uh by I believe it's September is that correct we have to have our budgets into by September so there was no way that we could come up with uh 8 $819,000 that was being asked by the county to join in with their uh with their project that would have been the upfront cost that the city had to pay to be part of that project on December 30th 2022 we got an a letter from the county chair and they gave us until February 22nd 2023 to decide if we were willing to raise our uh rent rent from $775,000 a year with the county to $2,884 a year and to commit to a long-term uh contract with them so it was two years that we we knew that the price would have been 112,113 but they wanted us to go into a long-term contract without knowing what the the next potential 18 years were going to be we didn't have those numbers so at that point with those two conversations that we had the city reached out to bakus Community Center knowing that the Northland Counseling Center was going to be moving out of that building and had conversations about the timing being appropriate for us to move the the uh police station temporarily into bacus it was going to be $75,000 which is the same price that we used to pay the the county so the way way that the city council looked at it at that time is this is temporary we'll be able to look and negotiate with the county to be able to have conversations on what it looks like to go into the new jail we'll be able to have conversations to see what other op opportunities that we have to move the police station because I think everybody in this room has to agree that the the police station being in bacus was temporary I think all of us can agree to that whether they went to the went back to the county and we negotiate a deal with them or we move into a different facility I think we all agree that it doesn't make sense for the police station to be longterm in the bis Community Center so in June of 2023 we did move into the bakis community center over the course of uh the last year we did sell um the couta building to uh to couta the city owned it we sold it to them for a um at the time we were not looking at that building for uh the police station they had reached out they said they wanted to rebuild the building and make it into a facility that made sense for them and you know to get to move forward we did that we sold that building to uh cout tasa for a dollar as we started to move forward um they found that that was not going to work for them and they um found a different facility in fact they went to backas so um they reached out to us the and asked if that would be something we would be interested in again and we had the Assumption at that time that we would be able to trade that building again for a dollar that was the the belief of this city council and we did reach out and have that conversation they said no they had put money into the building they they wanted to have $20,000 I believe that was a number is that correct yep $20,000 and the city said no but to help move the facility we would do 5,000 before we did that we had the uh city building inspector along with councelor Holden and councelor Buller walked through the building to make sure that it would meet our needs and be able to be feasible moving forward we were told that there was going to be some problems with the building we knew that the roof was going to be in rough shape we knew that there was uh it was going to be in a residential area we we we had a lot of consideration that we've had conversations here back and forth uh between Committee of the holes our safety uh committee meeting and we decided you know what it would be worth the $5,000 to find out if this is going to be worth our while we at that point did our due diligence we reached out to Krauss Anderson to find out what the cost would be to get the building up and running and moving forward that's where we get to today with the facility conditions assessment you see BS many else I'm really sorry we that we're not taking public comment right now so and no we didn't because they re we ended up going with uh our City attorney or a city uh engineer worked that deal and it's a contract that we do not have to go out for bids for so we ended up having kuss Anderson went through and did a facilities assessment and it it came out that the facility is in poor condition which I think we all understand stood where we were a little bit overwhelmed with was the final dollar amount the final dollar amount came out to be $4.6 million to fix the building to make it into a police station I think all of us had sticker shock when we got that information on Monday moving forward from that the other thing is is a new police department if you were to build from scratch at the same size that what what we're looking at doing over there would be 35 million to 40 million if you were to build it from scratch so here we are trying to share the information with uh with the community on where we've been how we've gotten here and I want to um hand off a little bit to the city administrator to councelor Wagner and councelor Kaylor who have been working on this project to see if they have anything to add before we move forward I also want to reach out to our police chief to see if they have anything to move forward with no that that's about it in a nutshell uh you know what but any of this we've looked at none of it we've all agreed will ever increase the levy that is the goal that is the ultimate goal so if it if it can't be done unless you increase the levy we are not going to do it and that's what we've been working hard to try to try to do um to keep our Levy where it's at or lesser um I think we've done a good job of that so far so that's a big part of it and I just want to be clear on the one thing brought up the money they're asking for Capital cost wasn't for the a new space it was for the space that the law enforcement center the Sheriff's Office and police station were they didn't decide that they were going to not rehabit and go with a new office for the sheriff's department till later in I think 2023 so that wasn't towards a new um building and that all being said um we never said we weren't interested in working with the county but that goes both ways we haven't heard from when they decided that they were going to make their own uh office uh we haven't heard maybe some casual conversations nothing concrete so as part as our due diligence I would like our city administrator to reach out to the county as they're sing willing to see what we could work out possibly but we're not going to agree to a deal that isn't fair to the citizens of international balls and I've been hearing a lot about we thrown away taxpayer money we're not watching that well I'm not much of a numbers man he will be up here I understand here in a little bit but I I don't think you need to be much one for the last two years we've saved close to $70,000 by moving from the law enforcement center to Backus and they just raised a rent for the same area we weren't growing getting anything else and they raised our rent almost $42,000 a year and I worked in the building for 30 years it has plenty of work at needs on its own I'm not saying it can't be that and both buildings also are were built in about the same ER era they're about the same age so and otherwise you filled in everything I had to add City administrator I have nothing additional that covers all of it did good job Chief do you want to come up and and mention anything because I know that this has been all over the community and I'd love to have you speak on behalf of it yeah I mean just to start off I think you guys covered your your portion of it um my concern mainly is with the operations and functions of the police department and like we always say our our services to the citizens at the most fiscally responsible rate we can offer that so I'm not going to speak so much as to the building which I think you covered adequately but the fact that no matter where we are in the city our operational functions will remain the same um there's been there's been concern about that and I want to let everyone know that that is our primary concern as a police chief and deputy chief a lot of this stuff is above my head um and I do acquest to love your decision making and I've tried to help along the way with my recommendations for the different things um we said going into this that one of the things we have to watch is the praise and I've said that from the beginning um I said it with the move to backas I think it's important to be transparent with the citizens and which is why I attract all the cost to the moov to Backus um but somewhere along the way and I want to speak to this a bit the transparency didn't get there and I don't want to speak for all of you and I don't want to be disrespectful so I'll just say on my own behalf I'll take some of that responsibility that for some reason there's a disconnect between the Public's observation what we did and what we we did and I think at least as far as the police chief goes I need to be open to speaking with everyone as needed to try to explain what our goals were how we met those goals and why we did what we did as far as the police department um you did very good job just now but like you said we are having questions about why are you up there can you stay up there for good I think we may like you said one of the recommendations I made if you want to go to back is we can only do it on a short-term basis um nothing nothing wrong with bakus they've been gracious hosts it's not made for a police department I made that I I feel I made that clear when you asked me what my recommendations were for that um like I said I I I think one of the things I said this too about a year and a half ago that we as a city and I I mean no disrespect but we need to get better at conveying our message and what we're trying to accomplish to the citizens I I I think time and again there's there's been like I said a disconnect between what we want which I think our goals are fair and admirable to what they think they're getting from us and I'm going to be honest I think it's a good thing we have a full house here tonight to to talk about this and get this out because I've said this about a year and afo too discussing things and having discourse online never releas anything positive I think we all need to talk and come to an understanding and at the end of the day we do specifically police departments answer to the citizens and what their their desires and needs are so not so much about the building itself but just how we're operating as a police department how we can do better as far as conveying our messaging so I'm I'm eager to have that discussion if people aren't comfortable discussing that here and now I can do it anytime they want they can come up to Backus and talk to me about it anytime they want to um but I I would enjoy any kind of discourse in that regard Chief um you know I think that the city council is more than willing to accept the conversations about funding and what what that looks like and why we made the financial decisions of what we made uh could you just kind of discuss one of the concerns that that we're hearing is um the road the uh Second Avenue East and the the speeds that could come out of there with or the traffic that caused by that that's one of the things that we're hearing and then the other one being in a residential neighborhood could you just discuss how that works into the police department's model or how that may be a challenge and and again this is part of the messaging because I believe in I apologize for being not being well versed on zoning titles and um Betty can speak to that further about the actual zoning of that building it is zoned for a police department um to your question about the 22nd Street breakthrough um one of the first things we discussed in in considering that space was making the road a throughway to be able to ease on to 53 um in my view I I don't think that there's any change listen we're in a we're in a neighborhood now in bakus and we were at the LEC where we have to be cognizant of our speed at all times anyway um I I don't feel we've generated complaints in the Backus area or at the former LC residents in regards to how we respond to calls there are statutes governing how we respond to calls um and any Road in town if we're actively monitoring or patrolling we could be on Second Avenue East and have a have a police department in back us and get a call that requires us to go lights and sirens and and we may have to go at speeds that are safe to maintain but still speeds to get to that call um it's part of our discretionary Powers as police officers and also the training we receive you know so I appreciate the concern but it's a concern shared by all officers in our department as well for the safety of everyone in the city and and I guess my my my last question to you would be um kind of what the same question that I had when you wanted to go to to Backus how do how would it work if you're going to be on the third floor of Backus to receive a call are we and this is something that's happened Rel since Co we dispatch from our cars as a general rule so the likelihood of the officers being sitting at bis Andor a new facility where wherever that is and being dispatched from a building to a emergency what's the likelihood of that again it's a matter of of semantics when you're talking about well where's the police department in my opinion and again location in this day and age is not as relevant as it may have been years ago simply due to the fact that we are Mobile in all regards and to be fair you you can't very well predict where your next call is going to come and if our officer are in an office in bis and they get a call over to the South Falls area or vice versa it's going to be the same amount of time now to your point we do have a lot of officers now they're mainly proactively patrolling at all times and I think everyone in this room can attest the fact that our officers are out the car all the time um so I I don't think I think that concern it was L yeah it was brought to the Forefront with Co just because of our social distancing requirements but truthfully I think any area in the city that you put us in the radius of the city isn't big enough for it to make that much of a difference even if we're always stationary which we never are perfect anything to ask the chief all right thank you gentlemen Mitch did you have anything to add no I never expect you to have anything to add thank you all right so if nobody else has anything to to uh bring forward um as a general rule we usually allow 5 minutes but we have so many people here tonight um we'll go with five minutes for a little while in the event that we start to get every person in the room we might cut that back to three but um I would be more than willing to allow folks to come up and give your thoughts uh moving forward I'll need your name address and then you can make statements hello my name is Susan wga and did you say address also yes 107 Park Avenue in the falls and thank you Harley for your explanation regarding the whole issue and you're right I'm sure most of us are here for the whole Police Department issue um and thank you also chief kek for your input on this also um so someone handed out the December 30th County letter from Wade pav and then also the response from the city of International Falls and just looking at the two the letter from Wade pavic states in the first paragraph We agree a cost effective solution for our taxpayers is needed in the response from the city I have underlined in the first paragraph Please be aware this decision was not made lightly or without extensive deliberation we strongly believe offering our officers room to grow and build their identity in an accessible environment will ultimately better serve our community nothing about finances it's about building an identity which I don't understand that part and then also please note the decision to dissolve our lease was made based on a long-term plan to establish a shared space for fire ambulance and police department in the future and so far what I'm understanding is kutasa building is Police Department that's correct so we're not talking about this long-term goal with the ambulance and fire station this is just a police department correct so I'm all for law enforcement my dad was one of the original officers in the new law enforcement building I believe they should have the equipment needed to do their job and the support of the community The Joint law enforcement building was a center for the Departments the sheriffs and the police to collaborate and work together um I don't understand the desire to have separate identities or to duplicate bills by maintaining two different buildings and to no longer have the easy access to collaborate again since covid everything is pretty much um Tech anyway but um my questions I guess and again they probably were already addressed but what was the main reason to not be in the same facility as the sheriff's department and number two is this the most fiscally responsible route which you've stated also you guys are all shocked by the amount that you got for the numbers um and then also um again I brought up the long-term goals where we're just addressing the police department at $5 million That's not including the long-term goal of ambulance and fire department so we're looking at further expenses down the road for that potentially and personally I don't care what uniform I don't care about their identity if I'm in need of help I'm thankful we have law enforcement here to help us so that's ultimately not building an identity to better serve the community just they're here to serve the community and your job is to be responsible to the taxpayers and um also listen to us so thank you I appreciate that thank you anybody else Eric do you want to come up and bring your cka questions or Eric strand 1831 forth AV East uh thanks for thanks for the time um I've been to other meetings and um you know I've I've I've I've dwelt on the on the terminology but Synergy um you know non-disclosed plans those have been have been talked about tonight uh the residents that I did visit with and I really did um want to present that as each individual's cease and assist um so you know the county was is mandated to build that structure and and I thought I thought the county numbers were about 20 million and just from this report on Monday for just the the the um the police department um the county sure seems to be getting a lot of bank for their Buck for 20 million if that if that is in fact the number um but um but the the the letter that that um and Sue had mentioned as well but that letter talked about the future plans um and and and I I go back to the property um and I I certainly don't I mean I am not faulting the police department we walk a lot in the evenings wave to the guys I mean it it's it's wonderful and and I appreciate I appreciate all of them um but again this so the property so that property is landlocked 200 ft by 433 fet that's landlocked by who by ke it's it's it's it's Zone public so technically yes it is could be a police station but keto owns that land around it and with where everything has been at with the the um you know the stresses of talking of the the airport commission and and and all those things what's the likelihood that that the county is going to just the the county representation on K is just going to say sure we'll we'll give you that land so you're you're ready to seemingly before talking of tonight of of hopefully taking taking some extra time on this but to to to build and renovate this thing for 4.8 or whatever that number is and not even have that land around it to to know what the plans are so again to me it just seems like there's all these plans going on under the current that we're we have no we have no no idea of what really is the long-term plan and and in that letter that that's really about the first that it's that I've really seen it in print of of the the the long-term plans there so um but at the end of the day you folks are the fiduciary for us for the for the people that that elected um and um you know managing these taxpayer dollars is for our for our benefit um and not everybody can have Ivory Towers not everybody can work in Ivory Towers and um and I just think there's a new County there's there's a a new County governance new County Commissioners haven't heard much conversation about the uh about the new uh new representation at the county conversation with that so I'm I'm excited to hear what does come of that I'd be surprised if there isn't some some motion on that but um but I I do hope I do hope you take your time and again my focus is on that location and um and and modern policing well if the if that much less is required of of brick and mortar well 4.8 doesn't cut it for for modern policing so but um but again just uh uh just wanted to share that and and I'm I'm really I'm I'm really concerned about that that of the property because you can't put money into this one unless you have that in your back pocket um and I I don't know how you're going to get that deal done with K can can I ask because I one one quick question I don't believe it's been requested at all City presence uh a city recommendation or a city request for K has that been on K's board no but historically historically all of those those properties that have been over there when there is a a a potential buyer it has went so anyone that's been willing to buy it K has sold so I don't I don't think we've had one piece of that one piece in that area that has ever sold for more than a dollar and if we're talking about us having half the representation on that board I have to assume it would almost be a shoe in if the city wants to buy its own property that we could buy our own property for a dollar you can buy a common interest of half fair enough well Mike yeah we we've had conversation about you on that and it's it's not we've had it a few times so just haven't been on the agenda um but I I look to see things go good I did after I did just mention it to the director just to give a heads up that this was one of our ideas but no nothing official like that so they and I just wanted to ask you one question and uh because you had you had uh reached out and had conversations with the neighbors the the one thing about it is I understand the concern on Second Avenue East for the speed but for me I would love to have a police station in my backyard so I I'm just wondering if that if there's a concern in some capacity cuz we're not putting in the jail there but please I had I had one person okay and they would live very close to the corner of 19th Street in 2 Avenue East and and they Flatout said to me those stop signs are just suggestions and there is that is the the absolute worst obeyed semaphor in town I would I would I would I would say that most stop signs are just for suggestions from people yeah incl in front of my house and that's in front of school that is just a suggestion also thank you appreciate my thank you anybody else have anything to bring forward please Lois hello everyone um for the record my name is Lois lundine I live at 2222 3rd Avenue East I'm here as a citizen of International Falls not Bas um first of all Mike kic and Miss Mitch lard thank you for the service that you provide to our city nobody is disputing the quality of that service this is a financial issue that's of concern to the citizens of our community um there was something said earlier and I had had a conversation with someone earlier today that um it was explained to me that this renovation the funding from it will come from existing Police Department budget and there will not be additional Levy to the city residents that doesn't compute to me we're talking 4.6 to 5 million dollar I don't know how this isn't going to affect the citizens of the city so I think um for transparency sake it would be really good if that could be explained more completely when a plan is developed explain that to the city because people don't get it can I just interject that I am not going to agree to $4 million to upgrade none of so I I can just add add this piece as you know better than anyone else the city already has $75,000 that we used to pay the county that we currently pay back us correct so if we were to do debt service and we can get the debt service to be a 20-year Debt Service and it' be of $775,000 a year or $100,000 a year and I know that that's more but there's also additional funds that the city already has set outside for um for buildings for maintenance so there's there is funds that would not have to go on to the levy and those are all conversations that we have to figure out right I mean we're not no one here we all had sticker shock we did not expect we all I expected it to be around $2 million I don't know where everyone else was but I was thinking two um so just like the jail the the jail they thought it was going to be about half the price that it was they they had taken out a bond and then they had to go back and do it again the prices were higher than what they had expected this project that we're doing is higher than what we had expected so we know that we don't have the money to do that so please continue and I think it would be much more manageable if if the people of the community had a sense that you were seriously entertaining the idea of going back to the county and having good conversations with them I appreciate the the request for an invitation into the county to sit down at the table again and if your conversations that you had before didn't work maybe it needs to be reshaped maybe that committee needs to be reframed size it down have someone else help facilitate there are other tools and mechanisms that can help make those conversations more profitable and more successful more amicable if you will we we have all heard that they were difficult and they were challenging conversations for the city to have and for the county but both parties need come to the table with the intent of finding a solution they really do um we are not in a community where either the county or the city is overly wealthy we're not it's all coming from the same pool people are concerned genuinely concerned about the tax rates that are hitting them and whether or not they're going to be able to continue to live in this city because the taxes are getting so High um 24.7% of the people in International Falls are 65 years old or older the Social Security increase for 2025 is a mere 2.5% we're looking at substantial from school district which we voted in and from City and from County that's that's big when these people are looking at only 2.5% 15% of our population today lives in poverty and they're trying to figure out where it's going to come from too some of that 65 and older and the poverty May overlap it likely does but we need to take that all into consideration we cannot continue to spend money we don't have we can't and I do [Applause] think I do think we need to I didn't I was no I that's fine but we can't Harley we can't I understand that and where my concern is where I think that the city's council's concern is right now is if we let let's say that the number is a flat 100,000 Y and we pay a flat $100,000 to the county yep the the poorest people in coch Ching County live in International Falls we all can agree on that yep then the city of International Falls is paying the county which has a larger tax base and your residents are being charged to do to pay the county to offset the County taxes and when I say that it it sounds immediate mediately like I'm not playing the game but the long term is if we own the asset at the end we're not offsetting the the taxpayers we have we have something at the end of the day that's where I always get I always struggle and when we're talking about ambulance airport and and uh the law enforcement center those are the three things that we work with the county I would love to have a better relationship with the county and we have You' facilitated meetings at at bis for the city and county they were unfruitful for 2 years yep we've been trying to have those conversations and at this point all I want to do is make sure that the residents of International Falls are not paying a substantial amount of taxes that have to go to the county so that the county can alleviate their taxes we are unfairly taxed in International Falls because at the end of the day we are still residents of coching County yes and so that is that's what my concern is I can't speak for everyone on this Council but that's why we're making the decisions that we're trying to make is to make sure that we have assets at the end of this because after paying 20 years at $75,000 a year to the county we have nothing to show for it we have no building at the end but but but the county has its building and it has space that the city could rent from and you're looking at another building that's going to be built if we don't fill up the spaces that are in the county the city people who also play County tax are going to pay pay for those empty spaces until they are filled up so essentially those people could be filling they could be paying taxes on the kutasa building converted over to a police department and they could be paying for empty space at the county so they'd be paying twice so we need to take that into consideration too yep understand and these are all things that we've been having the conversations these have been in the conversations for the last two years and I appreciate councelor Kaylor uh requesting us to have additional conversations with uh with the county y there we're also going to be moving this project more likely than not from November into December into January and our new mayor Dill is going to be able to be part of those conversations as well that was the second part of my request was that anything is tabled or at at least very carefully managed until the new mayor is in place I firmly believe that he should be on those ground floor those entry level discussions um to be a part of that you have to go in as a team that group has to put its feet on the ground together set its objectives together and then move forward to the county um you can't very well expect a person to come in and and not have been a part of that foundational work so please please do consider that 100% good all right that's all that I had for today but thank you for hearing me um thank you for hearing the people out here they people have a voice and it's constructive we know that we have to be a part of the solution so I want to thank the people who are here today too because anybody can sit out there and complain on social media this is where it matters I appreciate that thank Youk Youk you I'm going to applaud you for that anybody else anybody else have anything to bring forward all right so our next oh please name is Tyler we I live at 121 Second Avenue East um I actually work in the jail so I'm actually kind of excited for the new jail so it's nice excellent but uh you were talking about being transparent you guys want to be more transparent and stuff um with the 1% sale tax that we've had that's supposed to be for roadways and stuff were you guys trying to use that to remodel for kry Park no can no but I will say this because this is where that that line gets a little bit wild right when we when we um put in the 1% sales tax we had to list every single Road and street that would be potential in that project that road going into that uh that area of carry Park is on that Pro is on that along with the sewer and the water and everything like that to redo the building you would have to redo all of that street and everything so that money could go towards the street improvements the the sewer the water all of that stuff so no but yes because that road would have to be redone so I just want to be very clear on that so if we do the carry Park project some of the 1% sales tax would be able to go into that only because that street has to be redone and the sewer has to be redone and it would be dedicated just for the street and the sewer okay um and then uh do you guys know approximately how much it costs for the the law enforcement or the police to move over to Backus like how much the remodel putting secure networks and stuff how much do that cost you guys know uh we have a very good uh fixed number on that I don't have it uh present but we 34,000 or something I I was just going to say we do have it on file because we just did from from the police station or chief no just say it so for the the move over is approximately $32,000 of that the non recover will cost me nothing we couldn't transfer to a new space was approximately $6,000 of that $6,000 approximately $4,000 is the glass we installed in the front entry which we can actually remove so the number of non-recoverable CL 2000 as far as the um the it and tax support we're a member of minut Minnesota it organization got that charge that thank you um and for anyone's concerns about law enforcement zipping down the roads and stuff I I can tell you from where I work and stuff law enforcement is mostly all about they're they're not sitting in usually one spot unless they're trying to watch traffic so I see that first hand um I deal with some of law enforcement especially when they come up to the jail and stuff um do you guys plan on having another meeting with the county at all about maybe renegotiating absolutely we just we just discussed that y okay oh that's all I had then thank you yeah anybody else have anything please Cheryl Christenson 646 Street So when you say that the levy will not be increased or you won't do this um if you take out a loan how long is the loan I mean you're looking at 20 years 30 years could be a 20 or 30y year long okay because every year this population decreases which means your tax base decreases so 15 years from now I mean how can you guarantee that that won't happen that 15 years from now it won't be well we don't have enough people here to make enough money to to to pay our loan actually our tax base has went up it has gone up yes okay we've lost people but the tax base has G Taxas has gone up because of the the businesses and stuff that have came into the community all right and um as far as the money you would it would cost the same amount as what or that you're pay you would pay to the county is that what you're saying or more than that to lease with the county to go back and be in the jail and have everybody Under One Roof so historically it was 75,000 that's what that's what we paid in the past we're currently paying 75,000 tobas um had we taken the the amount that uh that the county wanted us to have over the last two years it would have been what it would be so we still don't know and and that's one of the things how how would we as a city council make a decision to go into a a 18 or I'm sorry a 20-year lease with the county not knowing what the price was going to be right yeah I and so that's why we did what we did that's how we got to where we're at so now yes if we have a conversation with the county and it makes Financial sense um we would love to do that but right now I don't know what that their dollar would be okay be I mean because the the people in the city are concerned because they're hearing a lot of we want our own space we want our own identity we want versus you know if we're going to pay $5 million for a building that's A1 years that you can be or whatever leasing you know what I mean yeah instead of having your own and I understand at the end of the day then you own it but that's a hundred years of probably time you know what I mean yeah so and we have to we we have to do our due diligence too I mean again this was put on the agenda just so we could have this conversation so you know that's one of the things that we have to do and we're going to go back and have conversations and again I don't think this is going to be a quick immediate decision we do want to make sure that the police police department has somewhere to go that's the most important thing that we have here is to have the police department have somewhere to go that is not on the third floor back us that was the goal two years years ago that's the goal today so we were all told that was temporary I mean we're wondering why they can't stay there but you answered that question tonight so um okay all right was his answer good about the county not giving us a price because well yeah that's what it comes down to so us guys here we were never given a price or length of time well no yeah you can't agree to I don't you know I don't I raised five kids and I wrote checks out to keep my family going I would never write a check out if I didn't know what I was getting I agree I agree you can't say yeah we'll lock in for 20 years and then find out what the price is no one's going to do that so right so we're just saying that if the price is right then come on down Bob right okay all right appreciate it anybody else have anything to bring forward please Heather clemenson 5907 Town Road 238 I just wanted to say you know I really appreciate um the due diligence and really trying to weigh the options here and I want to bring some balance and just remind you know like I'm one of the 30s somethings in the audience but we 30s somethings are still rooting for invest in your future I have young kids I don't want to leave if we don't have things like the police department if we don't take care of our ambulance where are my kids going to go you know my kids might want to stay here and I want it to be an option that they stay here that's all I have thank you thank you all right anybody else going once going twice all right again I want to say thank you for all you guys coming this is not the end uh we are now at the point where we have a facility study now we can start doing the work to find out what makes the most sense councelor Kaylor would like to see us have a uh more negotiation with the county on on how that looks and if we can go into that facility I'm not opposed to that I don't think any of us are opposed to that but we want to make sure if that doesn't work out that we have somewhere that we can make that makes sense for our Police Department to go um I I truly appreciate all of the folks here I think this is the same amount of people when we as we had at bakus when we had the town hall on our Police Department which Chief kosic had had that conversation with everyone of why we were going to back us so I appreciate everyone coming out this is really as Lois said where where democracy hits the road so I appreciate you guys having come out and listening to how we came to this decision and again this isn't the end so um Betty could you tell us where we would go from here uh thank you mayor what we've done is reached out and asked our finance person um to work backwards from what we believed is you know the about the 100,000 80 to $100,000 of a Debt Service which we currently are using as rent and um some Capital funding to find out what that equates to and whatever that equates to we need to work backwards to see if this is even feasible that is our steps um you know we have the study we know what's there what can we do with money that will be available with what we can afford that is what you guys have been elected for by these folks that's what I'm hired to do is the fiscal responsibility of these funds um that is our next steps waiting to see that report from um George ersson on what the mount would be and then we would meet together and find out what we could do with um the report and what is workable and reach out to the county and reach out to the county to see if if there is still a space available um I don't believe there's space available in the in the new jail um because it wasn't going to be built in um that space but whether or not the the old LEC current LEC space is or is not available definitely reach out to them and find out what would be available absolutely Perfect all right any other business to come before the council hearing none we'll go to board's uh committees department heads City administrator on that I have nothing additional City attorney we have nothing additional tonight we're not even done guys good night got a go all right um uh apparently everyone's hungry all right uh any department heads have anything to bring forward all right hearing none we'll go uh the police monthly report is in your packet fire rescue and EMS report is also in your packet reports to the mayor council committees boards and commissions I just want to remind everybody about the Thanksgiving meal Don at the Elks on Thanksgiving Day 12 to 2 come on and it's all about getting together and visiting and having some connection with that's that you're looking for excellent I'd like to thank Rob Pastor for having Santa Claus up already um yeah uh anybody else have anything well today it came up earlier that we may be an ms4 uh from the Minnesota Pollution Control agent today I got the letter in the mail saying that we are going to be mandated to be a m uh MSA 4 and we'll have to have storm sewer Appropriations um after only six emails telling us that a letter was coming the letter came so uh that'll be in your packets next time I've handed that off to the city administrator put's the data on the letter or what's the date that we have to comply or uh we have six months or 60 days 60 days to reach out back to them and start having correspondence of when that will go into effect all right thanks um so we go to audiences anyone have anything from the audience that was not on the agenda hearing none will'll uh correspondence in your packet you have the International Falls Public Library meeting information of November 13th Arrowhead transit information of November 2024 uh city offices will be closed for Thanksgiving uh Thursday November 28th and Friday the 29th our next regular city council meeting will be in December December 2nd at 5:30 this meeting is adjourned recording stopped it works hope it works I'll try it