All right, it is 5 o'clock. We'll call this committee of the whole meeting to order. If we could all rise for the pledge of allegiance. >> I pledge algiance to the flag of the United States of America and to the republic for it stands one nation
indivisible with all. >> Doing roll call. All voting members are present. Uh we will open up the floor for public comment tonight. And let me remind you of a couple of the rules. We have a threeminut time limit on public comment. Uh please keep it to city business and not personal or political attacks. Uh
council member Heman here will be the timekeeper and he'll hold up a one minute sign when there's one minute remaining. Anybody for public comment this evening? Hearing none, we will move on to business item E1, agenda request from Casey Tronson. >> Good evening. Um, attached for your
consideration is a request received to amend city code to permit and regulate the keeping of quail on residential properties. The applicant proposes establishing standards consistent with existing regulations for other small animals currently allowed within city limits. um to assist in your evaluation.
We've included chapter 87 of the city code outlining the current parameters and enforcement standards for comparable animals. Um there's also um a few comparable other cities who allow or with whether or not they allow quail. Um
it looks like of these cities listed, only one does not um allow quail and the rest do. um in these cities are East Bethl, East Bethl, Princeton, Cambridge, Ham Lake, and North Branch. Um and some
of them also, um just um refer to them as Fowl just in general. And so it's and St. Francis also, sorry. Um so if you have any additional questions, I know we have a resident
expert in our associate planner, Jared Hos. Um, and also the applicant is here to answer any of your questions as well. >> Sounds good. Thank you. Uh, so I guess I have a couple questions. Um, I did a little bit of research and found out that the the males uh, similar to
roosters are a little bit more noisy at times. Um, Jared, what would you what would you have to say about this? What do you think about impact? That's the only concern I have is neighbors. They're they do make more noise than the females, but they're much quieter than a chicken. And the females are quieter
than chickens as well. And I would compare their call to more like a song bird. Even if you heard them, you would probably think it was just a wild bird in a tree. You wouldn't think it was an unusual disturbance. >> Okay.
>> George, have you ever had any quill? >> No. My daughter my daughter raises them. She has like 12 of them up in Alaska. Um, they're pretty problem free. They I I don't have any problem with adding this to ordinance at all.
>> Nick, Erica, or Steve, anybody? >> I did this. I called a few people that I knew would be maybe have more information than I clearly do, and no, no one seemed to raise any issues. I was trying to think of why we would be concerned about it or
why Princeton said no, but no one knew of any issues. >> Okay, >> Steve. >> Well, it all goes back. I mean, we allowed chickens, then then there was geese, and then there was ducks and turkeys and racing pigeons and racing
pigeons aren't an issue, but um >> you know what's next? Pigs, horses, cows. I mean, >> we allow horses. It's I I mean we allow chickens. I mean Minneapolis allows chickens. I don't
know about you know coral or anything else. Uh you know people have rabbits, you know. I mean I think we have to kind of keep it to a smaller mammals personally. I mean I have no problem
with the coils but I like I just it's what's next then? What's next? Then what's next? You know, I definitely don't want somebody having a bunch of pigs or horses or cows in my neighborhood, you know. Um I I like I said, I have no problems with
the coil, but I just I think at some point we do have to limit to the size of this. >> Sure. at some point. >> Nick, >> does the applicant have a specific number or ratio being requested or was
it just card blanch permission? >> Can you come up to the microphone, please? Thank you for coming in. Just state your name and address for the record, please. And we have had some technical difficulties with our uh uh software here, so some of our stuff hasn't come
through quite right. Yeah, I submitted it um in my application. I said I know for racing pigeons our limit is 100. They're about like the size of a guinea pig. They basically make guinea pig sound. So I don't
>> Okay. >> I don't I don't think so. We didn't see that. >> Yeah, I did not see that number. All it says is change to the ordinance to allow or regulate keeping of quail on residential properties. >> Only her um Oh, sorry. Her uh agenda
request is in your packet. >> Right. Okay. >> Sure. Can you tell me um how how big of a city lot do you have? >> Okay. >> Okay. >> I think Personally, I think 50 is a lot
less than a quarter acre. >> That's typical what a city lot is. I think 50 is I mean, if you had a acre or a half acre, it might be a little different, but I think that that size is >> again they are smaller than racing
pigeons and we do allow racing pigeons like normal res. Is that an old ordinance that's just never been changed? I never even I haven't seen that one. >> Well, when racing pigeons came in, I thought we limited them to a smaller
amount. >> Yeah, 100 seems like >> a lot. >> Yes. >> I thought we did 15 or something. >> I thought we did like 25. I thought >> it was somewhere around that. I've not seen it in our >> I think it was like around >> it's on page seven of the packet. It
says our racing pigeon. Does it say a number? >> The maximum total amount of pigeon shall not exceed. >> Yep. So on page eight, item >> I >> What didn't that also stipulate in the
size of the acreage? >> Nope. >> I thought that was a stipulation on the acreage size. That was just like with the chickens. less than three acres was 10 chickens. >> It should be. I mean, I I could see
maybe my property was six acres holding holding a 100, but not an average residential, you know, lot. We we need to relook at that. >> It doesn't specify acreage. It says R1A zoning district. >> Correct.
>> I don't ever remember discussing anything about pigeons and quantities. So, I think it was >> Stephanie, how big is an R1 before me? So the R1A zoning district, it is only allowed in that district, which is generally our more rural residential lots, right? >> So it doesn't necessarily limit it to
lot size, but it is all of this dark blue area, >> and those are generally over an acre, I would say. >> Most of them, I would say there are some that don't fall on that acre, but I'd say like a lot are four acres or more. >> So that is kind of the limiting factor
there. I guess I didn't see that that quantity in our in our packet. So, I have a little bit of concern about that just based on what other cities are doing. Um, I think a a smarter approach on this might be to I don't know what we can do, but do like a conditional use type
permit so we can see if there's see say if she does something like that and then the neighbors have an issue with it then we're not set an ordinance forever. It's like a we can take it on an evaluation basis. Is that something that we could consider? >> Yep, you could always do that. It will just have to be added to our zoning
ordinance, I believe. Um I'm not I have to look what that looks like for conditional use because this is in our regular ordinance. Um so I just have to figure out where they how we need to set that up. You could also restrict it to zoning districts as well. Um, and you could do the number
allowed per district just like chickens like or or acreage as well, which is what I would recommend. >> Okay. >> I do agree that like it was is it North Branch and Cambridge set for like they they have the the acreage, right?
>> Whether it's this big to this big with a certain set of because 50 does seem like a lot. Um, I would probably be concerned if I was your neighbor. Um, but you're right. I don't know what they are. I just know that they're smaller birds. Um, is there a purpose to them other than you just love them?
>> Eggs. >> Okay. >> Okay. Um, and that's what I I figured, but I just didn't know. Um, because I know in some of these places they they um they don't let you do egg sales. So, I mean, we would want to know like if that's your intention, like it's a
little >> Yeah, that it does not allow for a commercial egg or operation in a residential district within our zoning. >> The same We also don't allow sales with chickens. >> Yeah, we allow chickens for
>> Yeah, I think that's up. >> I think it's 15. 10 to 15 somewhere in there. >> I feel like that's that's a lot of eggs for, you know what I mean? So, unreasonable. >> Well, 10 to 50. I'm kind of like, woo, 50 is a lot. But >> you know, one thing when you take Ham Lake,
Ham Lake isn't a traditional city like I Cambridge. Those are typically one acre lots. They're larger areas. They're they're more considered rural areas than even though they are technically a city,
they're they're larger lots. But if I look if you look at all the other restrictions you know they're stating three acres or less total of sixfold three acres more 12
uh north branch one to.99 acres is five. So I mean they are eliminating you know the coil requirements in those areas. I I do understand what you mean about the
the racing pigeons, but from people that I know, most people that have racing pigeons, they're housed. They're always in a pen locked up. They're not >> Yeah. In my um whatever I sent in, these guys are also supposed to be housed.
They are not to be >> Okay. Do you know can we get that sent to us? And I think that's maybe pertinent. Is there a lot more information in that? >> Okay. Well, yeah, I think we should probably look at that
>> quail information that you have for her application. >> Well, it was what she's requesting. >> It is what she submitted for zoning change originally is what she's referring to, not with this agenda request. And so, she didn't attach it to
this agenda request. That's what you submitted for zoning amendment, which is not what this is. It's an ordinance amendment, so it's different. But, um, yes, we can forward that on to you >> and then we can have maybe a discussion at the next city council meeting. We can all look at it and just have an
understanding because I don't think it'd be responsible for us. >> We can't we can't really take actions in a committee of a whole. >> We can get a consensus and bring it on to the next city uh council meeting. Um, that's that's one of the things with committee of the whole. It's we can't
take actions on it. >> I was just doing what I was told. >> Yeah, >> it is and it is confusing. I I I get it. It's totally the all the processes is is hard to understand, but uh we want to take care of our residents and their requests. Uh so I would propose that we
uh do we need to table this or what is the term? Just put it on the next city council agenda and and please send us that full information and all of us take our time to do a little research and decide if we want to how we want to package that. Also, I would recommend that we look at the rest of this ordinance if there's anything else while
we're in here um to look at if we want to change anything else. >> We can postpone it until the June 2nd city council meeting. At that time, we can have a draft written um and then it can go back to the following one if if you approve um so we can get it posted for the 10 days.
>> Okay. Does that sound good to everybody? >> All right. Sounds good. We will move on to item uh thank you for coming in. I appreciate it. If you have any questions, feel free to reach out to any of us. Uh we will move on to item E2, Evergreen apartment request. >> Uh good evening, mayor and council. So
Tabitha Johnson had made a request on behalf of Evergreen Apartments to um request to be able to park alongside city streets um one to two times per winter season. So at those times that they could do a full parking lot cleanout of the snow removal. Um, at the
last meeting it was discussed and it was requested that the public services director send out letters to everyone on Wendover Street and we did so and we had not heard from anyone. Um, >> I did get emails yesterday and today so I printed you all off a copy of it but
mostly their concern is uh safety for the kids uh parking in front of their mailboxes um not getting their street plowed as efficiently because there's uh vehicles on the streets. Um but yeah, I'll hand
these out. >> Sounds good. Thank you. >> Okay, >> sounds good. >> All right, we'll just pass those out and have a minute to look at those. And I did receive um I did receive one
uh concern about not having somewhere to park. say if if the evergreen people come and park and people need to plow out their own driveways, they don't have room anywhere to park their car to clear out their driveways. Uh that was the one concern I heard >> and Mayor Council Tabitha is here in the
audience as well if you have any further questions for her. >> Okay, sounds good. I'll just give you guys a minute to look these over Okay. All right. Uh, how would you guys like to do this as a group? Would you like to have the Evergreen come up first or the residents or what do you guys think?
>> Resident first. >> Residents first. >> Yeah. Because we know the position of Ever like we >> Sure. Okay. Can you come up to the microphone to state your name and address for record, please? Thank you. >> Thanks for coming in. >> Absolutely. >> So, Tabitha Johnson, Evergreen
Apartments um community leader. My original request actually didn't include um Wendover Street. My request was in hopes that we could and maybe I missed this at the previous meeting. Okay. Was to allow my residents to park maybe 24 hours on County Road 5. Now, I
acknowledge that no parking signs have come up and I've made it that I actually appreciate that just as much as everybody else from the cemetery to the to the um neighborhoods in the area too. That was never our intent. We don't allow the residents park there. We've never asked them to park there.
Everybody has an assigned parking space at my property. So, there's no reason they needed to be parked there in the first place. But just as the um um director or what I'm not entirely sure what his um position is, but just as he
was given an exception for funeral parking for parking to be allowed on County Road 5, my request would be similar so that we could safely remove the um snow from the parking lot um but
still give my residents a place to park where they used to have a place to in previous years and now we don't. So I would agree with everything all of the concerns about Wendover Street. It's a tiny street. It's a culde-sac. I couldn't agree more. It's not
>> to me it doesn't make sense to to have my residents parked there plus what's already happening in that neighborhood. It there's 25 50 75 cars at my property that would need a place to be potentially. They could be in the garage. They could be at work.
whatever there wouldn't be 75 vehicles on Wendover Street, nor would there on County Road 5. So my ask is actually to allow temporary parking for residents according to their schedule to get off of the lot in time to clear it for the few hours in the morning typically and
then for them to get home from work or school or whatever and get their vehicles off County Road 5 and back to where that they need to be. So that's my actual request. I wouldn't propose Windover Street myself. >> Sure. And so I'll give you a little clarification. We did ask that question
and in the last meeting and we have no jurisdictional control over county road 5 as a city. It's in the city limits but we cannot allow or disallow parking there. Um so we were we were told that the county would not allow parking >> for for this snow removal process. So we were trying to come up with a city
solution for you and okay >> this was the only option that wasn't on a snow emergency route that we could even potentially consider. Um and based on the feedback that I read I'm not in favor of it. Now, I don't know if if maybe we can try and persuade the county to allow it, like if I can call them and
say, "Hey, maybe you guys have a misunderstanding of this." Um, or maybe there's some sort of way to do that. I don't know. Have you talked to the county at all about >> No, I'm happy to. >> Okay. >> To help make the next step or whatever I need to attend. Yeah. >> Okay, that sounds good. Yeah, it's
there's a lot of disconnect because you think it's a road in our city and we're responsible for it, but we have no jurisdictional control and our hands are tied on pretty much everything on that road. So, Do you know if the um cemetery did that they went to the county and got that uh exception for funeral um
processions as well? >> Yeah, it was under the understanding that someone talked to them uh regarding that parking issue. >> Perfect. Then yeah, it sounds like >> there should be the same general process that they have. You you would make a request to have a conditional use permit or some sort of variance. Um which I personally think it makes sense. If I
had if I we had control of it, I think we would have just said, "Yeah, use that road for a day or whatever." Um but we don't. So >> yeah. Yeah. So just then on the record I myself would not >> Okay. Well, that makes it easy then. >> Okay. Well, thank you.
>> Sounds good. Thank you. Do you guys want to come up and say what you had to say anyways? I appreciate it. >> Sure. >> Just state your name and address for the record, please. Thank you for coming in. >> I'm Dana Fairbanks. I'm at 64. Sorry,
this is weird. Um, a lot of people couldn't come because of like work and all that. >> I know like the intersection there is tough for you guys. Like I've been in the neighborhood like 18. Even if you guys could do like you
can call the do like a 50 foot like from a street 50t and then you have the rest of the park like even if there's like a compromise. I mean I think the biggest is just we already have issues and we got two kids on there. I mean, five is crazy. We've been trying new street
lights, street signs, pumping, flashing, anything. You know, our kids are lucky because we get the bus because of the safety issues. But the apartment complex is just you guys are expanding and it's getting so either. It's like the first half of that
street is about 60% like driveways versus We already have our street and we had last year. >> Wow. Yeah. A few years ago that was a a mess.
>> It was a mess and we pulled together as a community. It's just right now everyone's so busy on the street and I I think the 50 ft or even something to say no parking but the whole blocking off I don't think And I know there's, you know, rumors that there's a lot of you guys like like
west of that parking lot. I get the expense, but I I don't know. I just growing over there and yeah, it's just we spend a lot on taxes, money. I mean, a lot of us pride in our lawns and a lot of people don't respect, you know, parking on our grass and our wear and
tear of our driveways and yeah, it's it's hard. You know, we're all But I get the solution. I think that would be best solution for you to go to them and be like, "Hey, you know, you guys do need it." And I get families can't always move their cars and live, so I get it.
>> Sure. >> I'm not here to bash, but I'm like I'm a problem solver. And I think start with the 50 ft. Maybe we can change it. And then but I don't think the whole five needs block off. I think it's just part of it. Just the to make sure the buses,
the kids are safe. So, I think that's just our whole issue. I mean, and eventually, I mean, it'd be nice to get something there. >> Sure. Sounds good. Thank you. And I will give you a little input. Uh the county and the city did collaborate on a project. So, we're putting in a center rescue
island for uh pedestrians, specifically kids. Uh we're also shortening the the length of that crosswalk. I don't remember if it's like 40 feet. Um but there's some geometric changes to make it safer for kids as well as drivers there. Uh, so that should be coming this summer when they repave that whole
section. Um, so I'm not sure if you guys are aware. Um, but they're repaving that whole section from uh the Highway 65 out uh eastbound. Uh, so that'll be this summer and that's a county project, but the city uh cost shared on the um improvements for safety for kids there.
So, Yep. >> Yep. Did you want to come up for public comment or you good? >> Um, they're going to go with the Okay. >> Yeah. >> Come on up and just say your name and
address for the record. Just repeat that a little bit, I suppose. >> My name is Dan. I live on 901 Windendover Street. We're right on the corner. Another issue I know we have is when the plow comes around the corner on our road, he leaves, you know, there's a, you know,
eight foot strip away from the curb that we lose in the winter because just the way he has to come around so wide and he's pushing all that snow off of ETH. So the the roads are already narrow there and to have people parked there, you know, on the corner and stuff, I mean, it would really narrow it down. I
don't think you could get a car through if two >> two were parked on each side. >> Agreed. I mean, if if you know, the solution is to park on aid. If we can get a, you know, that temporary use permit or whatever it's called for that, that I think that's the best solution. Um, the other thing was people with
kids, younger kids, bring their cars down to the end of the road in the winter and park there and wait for the bus in the warmth so their kids aren't standing out in the cold. We're lucky we live right on the corner so we just wait to, you know, see the bus coming down the road and then we send the kids out. So, you know, but not everyone has that option obviously. So,
>> Sure. >> And then I think the only other thing was Uh yeah, just I think that was it actually. And then the timeline thing, you know, like was it going to be morning or overnight, you know, what was, you know, the time going to be, you know, so we could, you know, I was thinking more during the day when people
are at work, so there's less cars, you know, if it did have to go over during the day when people are at work, there's less cars on the road. You know, there's less people that would have to move their cars on to Wendover, that sort of thing. So, >> sure. >> Other than that, I think if they're going to go county five, I think that's like you guys said, that's the best
option in my opinion. >> Agreed. All right. Well, great. Thank you for coming in and providing your input and hopefully the county can listen to this and maybe come up with a solution for you guys. If you have any questions when you go to do that process, yeah, come on up, sir. Just state your name and address for the record.
>> Thank you for coming in. Timings, 106 Street. Um, I'm just saying as someone that >> turns on the five every day, um, I'm willing to advocate for the apartment complex with the Tony. >> Okay.
>> With the county, um, you know, like my wife said, maybe a 50 foot buffer from the stop sign to the turn and then that's for them. But as someone that literally turns that way every single day, I'm willing to uh, you know, stand
up for that. I'm okay with that. So, >> to to help to help you guys out with your scenario. So, I'm if I need to be signing something or whatever, just let me know. >> Sounds good. Yeah. Um if you guys would uh I assume you'll want to get a hold of the county engineer and then um maybe
you guys could follow up with the county engineer too and say you know you live in that area and and you think it's a a fair compromise. Um that that might be helpful and then uh generally they present that to the county board and then they'll make a decision. Um so I don't know if how they generally do that process but I encourage you to reach out
to the county engineer. >> All right. Hey Stephanie, what's the ordinance on them using their additional lots that are being built on? >> Right now there's no parking allowed on
grass, but the ordinance I mean that's an MS4. You know, >> that's my concern. What is what is the MS4 going to say if we did allow this as a >> I think I mean it's up you guys are the ones who are in charge of our ordinance
and so um we could look at if there'd be any repercussions I could look further into that and see what >> I would I would like us to do as another option for them. Uh, I mean, I don't want to put on a due cost on them to have to build a parking lot for it for
shortterm couple times a year. If we can work around that, that's another option for them to do if the county does turn them down. >> I would just say it's opening the doors to allow a lot of businesses and properties to start doing this. And so just letting you know that would be my
>> I get that but this is also apartment complexes when this one was built was a little different than we are where our standards are now with them. Uh so it's kind of a catch 22 and I mean it's
there again we can go on to a special permit special variance need need they need to come in and at least see if they can or can't do it. I mean, I'm trying to trying to ease that in there. And I know that at some point they there was still
talk, I don't know if there is, about adding another building in there. And then maybe at that time they could do some provisional exterior, you know, black topping or, you know, impervious surface to that area to help at that point. For them to just do it now would
be extremely costly. >> Yep. I will have I will look into that and bring it with to >> I I say let's look into it. see what we can and can't do. I'm not throwing up the red flag and and telling MS4 to come here and let's talk about it. Let's
let's see what we can do ahead of time. >> I'll add it to the m the admin update. How does that sound? >> That helps you as well. Hopefully, >> if somebody could do it, Stephanie can. >> Well, I would hope that the county just
says, "Yeah, you guys can can use it and then we don't have to spend city time looking into it more yet." So, all right. Anything else from the board on that one? Sounds good. Well, hopefully the county allows something like that. I think it's a reasonable request. Uh, next we'll move on to the
discussion of the fee schedule. >> Mayor and Council, if I could, if we could bring up the building permit fee schedule and skip the special events at this time. >> Yep. >> Oh, is that what you just said? >> I guess I read your mind.
>> I figured they were here. Is that why you're Is that why you said it? >> Yes. I'm not able to stay for the whole meeting. That's why mine was ahead, but she wants to get going, so I understand. >> Yep. Sounds good. All right. Do we have any preliminary discussion or are we just going to jump right into it? How do you guys want to do it?
>> I um was just going to let them lead the charge. So, >> all right. Well, sounds good. Thank you guys for coming in. If you could just state your name and address for the record, please. And thanks again for being here. >> Carrie Leky, senior advisor um for Romanburg Consultants Government
Relations. Thank you very much for inviting us back. Um, and again, thank you staff for working with us. Um, in light and respect of time, um, I'll I don't need to go through and read everything verb verbatim. Fourth times the charm, as
they say. Um, I know this was first introduced um to the committee in November by staff and then we Andy and I were here uh in December and January. Uh the committee had some great questions, great feedback. We've taken each one of them and each time come back with more
information. Um again, just to reiterate, majority of the changes being proposed is formatting, organization, and language clarification. Um there are some uh fee changes being proposed. >> Can you hold on just one second, please? Yes. Hey, can you guys go in the
hallway, please? Yeah. Thank you. >> All right. Sorry. Go ahead. And I the two new documents before you tonight, excuse me, getting over a little cold, are page 49. It starts on page 49, which
is the summary that the committee asked for >> and that is 4, page 49 and 50. And it's colorcoded. There was a legend at the top. I hope you were able to follow that document a lot easier than um the actual
ordinance um change. And then also uh the committee requested that we do a fee permit comparison on decks and accessory structures. We have done that as well and that is 43 of your packet. >> And um again as you can see there are
some minor increases, there are some rather large decreases and there are some that are um flat or budget neutral. Uh again reiterating that um commercial plumbing uh that is unknown and there's no way to quantify that because of the
way that the state significantly um uh did that overhaul. Um our understanding though again just to um inform the committee if we didn't say it before that there was um a concerted effort by
plumbers, Department of Labor and Industry. So the trades were involved in in that process as well. So voices were um heard at the legislative level. >> Let me let me ask some Andy. Do you do >> state plan review? Are you certified to
do state plan review for the state? Yes, sir. >> So, in your communities that you are inspecting. So, let's say I'm doing a project and I have to do a plumbing plan review for one of your areas. Do I still need to submit that with the state or do I submit it with you? >> Thank you for the question. Uh, that
comes directly to us, our staff. We have a master plumber on staff that's delegated from the state in order to do that review. If by chance, uh, plumbers, contractors are not aware of that and they submit it to the state, the state bounces it right back to us. They have a
sheet of a list on the state's website as far as cities that have that delegation agreement and our cities are listed on that list. >> All right. That's just a that's just you know because like I'm doing one in Cottage Grove and for all you that you all just so you all understand the state
plan review for four toilets and a bar is it's almost $2,000 or out of my pocket to have the state plan review. So, like I said, some like I I said before when they were here, some of these things
it's understandable. I still do not like the language in here where it states valuation because I do not believe in valuation as a as a means of somebody finishing a basement.
I I don't like that word >> because I'll be honest with you. It's the same inspection if it's valuated at $200 for plumbing fixtures or if it's $20,000. It's the
same inspection. There is no difference. That's why I do not like the word evaluation. >> So, if I might provide clarification for that, the valuation base that you're referring to is commercial based. When we're talking about residential basement finishes, those are the set fees. >> Well, that right here it says
residential plumbing, residential mechanical depending on the valuation of the project. >> Would you refer to page? >> It's your f very first one of our summary must be page 42 or whatever it is. I don't know what page number it is. >> Summary reference document. >> Yes.
>> So, page 49. >> 40 whatever the first one comes up. Summary reference document. So subdivision 2 is specific to non residential and >> but sub subdivision three right in the green depending on valuation of the
project. >> Good catch. >> Thank you. >> Y go ahead. >> So thank you for that. But that does >> let me read that again. >> Depending on the scope of the project is maybe a better word to use because is
not dependent on the valuation. These are set fees for for basement. And what this is alluding to is the fact that the fees are reduced by 125. >> I I get that, but I just I I don't like the word valuation. >> I get I understand that and I appreciate that and that we should use a different
word there. Uh depending on the scope of the project, not the valuation of the project. Thank you for pointing that out. That word is not meant to be there. >> So scope would be like the number of fixtures, not the valuation of the toilet. necessarily what the scope means is what's all being done,
>> right? That's that's it's not not going by evaluation. My biggest thing, what brought this to my attention quite a few years ago was a gentleman bought a house and he was flipping it and his permit for finishing
the basement which was already finished but it was damaged rot dry rot and putting on a deck was $1,500. I don't want to ch I don't want to chain our people down to saying, "Hey, I'm not
gonna get this permit if it's going to cost me $1,500." That's ridiculous. >> That there was nothing changed structurally in there. >> And again, Andy, I brought this up to you before. I don't care if it's greened, cedar, composite,
aluminum railings. It's the same inspection. It all has to meet It all has to meet the same code, no matter what it is. So, you're going to penalize a person for using better products, which as soon as the county comes out
and does my tax evaluation, my taxes are going to go up because I use the better product. That's why I have been always dead set against this. If I if we want people to pull permits for doing these things, we have to make it reasonable enough for them to do it. Cuz I
guarantee you I can guarantee you you don't get 80% of furnaces and water heater change outs in this city because they're done on a Saturday or a Sunday and nobody knows about it. And if people are finishing their basement off, they get the materials, they bring it in
their basement, they put it in their basement, nobody knows it, you don't know that they're doing it, let's make it reasonable enough for them to want to get them. >> Thank you for that. And I believe we have. And just as a point of clarification, where this conversation started was the residential mechanical.
So now, if you're doing your basement finish and that it does not include the mechanical, then that P doesn't apply. If, however, you do are doing your mechanical, that's where that that's enveloped within that same within that safe. So that's where Carrie and I work really hard to make sure that if these
projects are applied for by the homework and they're doing the plumbing and the mechanical, that's a we're able to envelop that within the original. >> And to that end, Council Member Lind, um, in the situation that you brought up about the $1,500 between those two permits, that's one of the reasons why
we are recommending in the proposed fee schedule to have maximum fees. So that does not happen. Um along with um that uh you know clarification again on on scope not not value. >> I did have a question on page 43 and this is regarding the deck. So if you
look at the permit fee comparison which thank you guys for putting that together. I think that was really helpful to look at um and that was a great idea. I don't know if other cities have asked for that but that might be very helpful for you guys with other cities to Yeah, that's that's awesome. um because otherwise it's so hard to understand. But if you look at the
current fees um on those decks, is that current fee for composite, green tree, or cedar? >> Regardless at the very top in each of the measurements, it states regardless of material. >> Sure. But if if you look at the the current fee versus the proposed fee is
the current fee is that like the comparison is that set for composite green tree or cedar or is that average >> material has never ever ever been a part of our valuation process? Okay. and it never will be. And that's one of the reasons in the new propose uh why we
want to be more transparent on how that value is is come up per square foot, which that would be then starting on page 37, which is the new proposed ordinance. again in in an effort to be more transparent, we're I we identify
what and this has not changed from what we've been doing since well I since I joined Rum River in 2021 22 22 so for the last four years that amount has not changed >> and so decks are valued at $45 a square
foot period regardless of material >> deposit green tree or cedar because to your point or >> because to your point the amount of our involvement is the same >> but it used to be different it >> it did because that's what I already used with our firm >> not with your firm that was a city code >> I can't speak
>> because I remember the the treated was $30 a square foot and the PVC was 45 and we had lengthy discussions about that >> you did and that you were you were here Andy when I cuz I I because it was >> he went on a rant >> I was I was very upset because my
original permit before it was all said and done and I delayed this thing because of it was my My deck permit was almost $700 because I used composite and aluminum railings. But if I were to use green treated, it
was like $200. Then we finally came down to this. By the time it was said and done, my permit was 300 and some bucks, which I was satisfied with. It was that because I was using composite and aluminum railings
that my permit was just ridiculous. >> Understood. >> I don't I don't even pay that much for plumbing permits for crying out loud. And I'm talking about five, six, seven bathroom houses, even in Minneapolis. >> You base it you base it on that. It's
you base it per, you know, what what I was doing versus blah blah blah. They're not comparing to that. That's not even the same. >> Understood. >> So that that was your time because that I was livid with that. >> We had the discussion, but that was not part of our scenario.
>> Well, I just like I said, I just I don't like the words of valuation. I understand it when you're calculating per square foot. If you're going to use the same dollar amount, you know, like a 30 by32 deck, $467, that isn't that's a big deck. That's a
huge deck. And I don't think that's that's out of line, you know. I I really don't I personally, like I said last time, get rid of that word evaluation. I understand things do cost money, especially when gas prices
there. It cost me double what it cost to fill my van H tank now than it did a month ago. So what you're what you're saying here is that no matter what it is, it's going to be the $45 per square foot for the calculated valuation.
Correct. No matter what material, it's going to be the same valuation basis. >> That is correct. $45 per square foot. >> Okay. >> Yes. >> And is that is that typical industry standard? >> Yes, it we feel it is. and we network with other building officials, um,
permit technicians. Um, they're they meet on a regular basis, review this quite a bit together. in our data and research back in 2022 when we initiated this uh we spoke with local um contractors again other jurisdictions uh
within our areas and um we're a little I think we're a little bit lower than some and possibly higher than others but we're >> in short yes we do collaborate with other building officials we look back at past projects to look at what the fees were historically so we do use the last
couple of years worth data as reference to determine that price per square foot. >> Okay. So, if you're looking at the 30 by 32, how the heck did it how are we seeing such a huge decrease? What is the change there? >> That's the implementation of a max fee. >> Currently, if that individual were to
apply for a permit, the cost of that permit today in the city of Iani would be $1,1425. With our mo our new model, we are putting that maximum 675 which includes plan review because again keeping in
mind we want to cover what that minimum cost of service to provide that is required by uh by mandates by the state by by state law. >> Sure. And so, um, by implementing those maximum fees with decks, basement finishes, accessory, structures, those
ones where a lot of homeowners are pulling their own permits, doing their own work, it it helps offset that total cost of the job for residents. >> Okay. So, in that example, you could have a thousand foot by,000 foot square foot deck and the maximum fee would be 675. Okay. So, maybe that's a little bit
better clarification. And I think I mean laid out like this I I think it seems okay. Um I I do have a little distrust in general for the process, but I think it's uh I I appreciate that you guys laid this out this way. Um is there any
way I know these are two popular ones. If you guys are planning on implementing this in other cities, is there any way that we could get more items than just the deck and the detached garage for like a fee comparison if that's something that you're going to implement anyways in other cities? because right now the deck and the detached garage
stuff I think personally it looks fine to me. Um, but I worry about the other items and I know you have it laid out also in your summary reference document, but is that something you guys are planning on doing is maybe more in the future or in in currently in um as far
as additions, remodels, essentially you just replace the value dollar amount that's in the new proposed fee schedule because it's now identified in that and you're not going to see it's going to be very consistent in each of those
permits. it's going the same uh pattern will apply other than on those maximum fees but we're not proposing I I want to reiterate if you look at page um 33 in
your packet which is subdivision one the reason why we we discussed um in our last couple of meetings and why we chose decks and accessory structures is typically those buildings are not are rarely over a valuation of $50,000
and the only change excuse me over 20 even over 25,000 the only change in that we are proposing is in the first two rows on subdivision one mult the fe multiplier table no changes are being proposed in the in 251
okay all the way up to 1 million so we could but there you're not going to see a change like you would with the decks and accessory structures because that's those first two $1 to25,000. >> Okay, good explanation. Thank you. >> And I and I did kind of look at your
permit for finishing a basement off. I don't think that's unrealistic. And then you're adding on the mechanicals. U you know, electrical electrical is out of yours and mine and everybody else's hands. Uh so I personally I don't think I don't think this is bad. I think we I
think we can all, you know, we met in the middle in my opinion. Um, permits are are always something that irritate a lot of people. >> So, I had a question on page 50, subdivision 9. The first bullet point
says maximum fees set for basement finishes 500, accessory structures 850, deck 675 decrease for high valuation projects. So, is that just saying like higher valuation projects? before they were over that cap. So now they're just But what is the how is that change for
low valuation products projects? Is this a huge jump? >> My understanding if if it without looking and reviewing it's going as I was just stating it's going to be very similar to those desk accessory buildings. >> It's just going to be based on a different valuation per square foot
which is also identified now in that new fee schedule. Okay. So, it's only going to affect those projects between $1 and 25,000. So, if you have a basement and if you have a basement finish that is really really large, it hits that max fee. So, if you've got a large
footprint, maybe a Rambler, those are, you know, usually um larger footprints in the basement, um it will it will save that that you'll see that decrease in cost on those larger projects. >> Okay. And then, uh one other thing, it's about halfway down the page, reissuance.
reissuance and renewal of expired permits. I see that's a new fee. Why is there a fee for that? And how long is an expired like what is I guess what's the point of that? Do you guys get it out of your system at some point or >> Very good question. Thank you for asking
that. It's actually part of the Minnesota State Building Code requirements. So, it's part of the state law that permits expire after 180 days of no activity. Um and so this reissuance renewal of expired permit it is still part of the state law and we
were still that this is something that we were doing because we're able to do that. What we again in an effort to provide more transparency >> clarification. >> One of the issues is is in um under the state statute it gives those base parameters and so you can charge up to
the same amount that the building the initial building permit was for. Well, we had ran into a lot of situations where roofing, siding, they may have expired. We do send out reminders, especially now that we have the technology through baseline, our proprietary software. So, we try to stay
on top of those. Reminders are sent to the applicant stating, "Hey, hello, it's expiring. But even if they neglect to react on that, by having that um minimum amount of $50, if you have a $100, $125 roofing permit, you're not paying that
same amount again. We're able to work with those um applicants to say, "We just need to get out there, do a final inspection, let's close this out. It's $50." >> If I can give an example of that, like you say, Carrie, thank you for that. Baseline does send out an automatic reminder. So, as a resident, you get an email notification that your permit's
about to expire. And if you don't respond, the permit expires. Then, if you were to reapply for the permit under the current system, it would be a full priced fee. If, however, you missed the email, you forgot to re reply, you get a hold of us a week later, we can apply
this $50 fee instead of the full 125. That's where that savings comes in. So, it's not a new fee. It's basically like a new process that results in a lower fee. >> Okay. >> Does that help? >> Yeah, sounds good. Great explanation on that. Uh >> is it limited to one week or is one week just example? >> No, but that's our experience is
generally if it if somebody misses that email, they come back to us within a week or so. If they don't, they don't. And then therefore that permit does expire. And if a new contractor comes to apply for new work or something that's different, but it's not limited to a week. We need to have some discretion. If it's a week or two weeks or
something, that's generally where we would apply that. >> Well, like six months or something like that would be a new per. >> So, thank you for that. So if somebody comes back and they say, "I want to apply for a permit for work that was done six months ago." That that's that work is old per old old work. We won't
we would rather not issue a permit at all because that work has already been done. >> And I'll just, you know, to to dovtail off that quickly is our favorite saying is it depends. We need to look and evaluate every single case. I I wouldn't
want to put just a blanket no or yes on a week or six months. It really needs to be the entire situation needs to be considered um along with the type of project that it is. >> Sure. Technically, you could take and call them up and say, "Hey, I need you
to come out and inspect this." So, like you said, it's expires at 180 days unless it's ongoing, still going in inspection terms. >> That's correct. >> So, you could say, "Hey, I got this done. Can you come out and look at it?" It puts a burden on them, but that's
kind of another loophole you can get around. >> If I can detail on that, that's a great point is we do have notifications in our software that remind people that this permit is going to expire after a period of uh six months of inactivity. However, an extension request automatically resets that clock. So, it's basically
for whatever reason I got behind the eightball, material was backward, whatever it is, that resets the clock as well. And not too often do permits be extend beyond that. And also you got to realize a permit that is no longer active is that it's expired doesn't mean
it's passed. >> Thank you for that. Right. >> It does not mean it's passed. >> It's not successfully closed. >> It's not successfully until that permit is closed. It's not closed out. >> Right. And thank you for that. There are there's no cost for those extensions either. Those are just >> Okay.
>> Do we need to Can we still go a few more minutes or staff? I do have another council meeting if you don't mind. >> Yeah, I just had one one other question. >> I can I'll be able to stay >> the Okay. Well, the technology service charge uh do we want a motion to recess
or not? >> I think just finish this piece if possible. >> Okay. So, the technology service charge um what is that? Can you give a brief explanation? Didn't we do some of that here previously? And what is this new structure? >> Luke, where are you at?
>> From my page 50. From my understanding, that's a charge that doesn't pertain to us because we pay for baseline outright. >> Okay. So, we don't >> it is something we can consider and we were t going to talk about during our budget talks this year actually. >> Okay. And then uh also one more quick question
for me. The holding tank item towards the bottom of page 50. It says decrease for first year operating permit including included. What does that mean for the years after the first year? Does that does the price go up or I don't know the I don't understand that one exactly. Yeah. So on septic systems, there's two components. There's a holding or there's the septic tank and
then the drain field. If there's only a septic tank, that's called a holding tank and therefore an operating permit is is required for that. What we're able to do is incorporate the fees for the operating permit with the initial permit itself. So then subsequent years would be the regular fee for the operating permit.
>> Okay. >> In which we don't really need to worry too much about because >> we need to have that in in there just in case. >> Sounds good. because you do outside areas, counties, and blah blah blah. >> Any other questions from the the group otherwise we can come back to it after
as well. >> Thank you. >> Our request is that um please again hopefully fourth times a charm if you have any other questions after this evening. Otherwise, we're hoping that this does get forwarded to the city council again posting for the 10 days um statutory requirement um and have it go
before the city council for their consideration. And Annie or I Both of us can come back if you have more questions at that time. >> Sounds good. Do you guys have any more questions for them later if we come back to this or do we just want to so she knows if she has to stay or not or >> I don't have any other further questions. >> Nick George.
>> No. >> And one thing I would just like to say is I've received a lot of feedback of people now refusing to pull permits because they'd pull pulled a permit and Rum River has found something else that's out of compliance. Um so I I continue to hear that from people. Um, I don't know if there's anything we can do
because if someone pulls a permit, does the right thing and you come into their house and there was previous work that maybe wasn't permitted or wasn't done properly. I've heard that a few times and I don't know what we can do on that. I just something I wanted to bring up. Um, I I hope that you guys can kind of keep,
>> you know, I'm sorry. Let me double click on that. I need to know more because that's a serious statement and you're right in that that is not if we're out for a a window inspection has nothing to do with the deck railing like that. We do not operate that way in council. So if any statement like that comes up, I
take that very strongly. Yep. But I need to know more. >> Sounds good. I'll reach out to you then. >> Please, please do. >> Sounds good. I appreciate it. >> All right. Thank you. >> Thank you for coming in. >> Thank you very much. >> All right. >> Motion to recess. >> Second. >> Motion to recess by Peterson, second by Lundine. All in favor say I. I. Any
opposed? >> Motion carries 5-0. We are in going into recess and we'll pick up uh planning commission in one minute. So, so if they walk into a house and they walk by a water heater, but they're going to inspect the furnace and they look over, oh, that's not a code. They
go over and they inspect the water the furnace and then they leave. >> You're saying they're saying >> they have to fix it. >> Well, we need to know. >> Well, I'll tell you what. If they if they if if they came into my house and tried calling something else out other than what they're there for, I'll tell
them to get the hell out. If >> we could all rise for the pledge of allegiance, please. I >> pledge allegiance to the flag of the United States of America and to the republic for which it stands, one nation under God, indivisible, with liberty and
justice for all. Doing roll call. All voting members are present. Are there any agenda modifications this evening? This evening? >> No, not at this time. >> All right. I entertain a motion to adopt the agenda. >> Motion. >> Second. >> Motion by Peterson, second by Lundine.
All in favor say I. >> I. Any opposed? Motion carries 70. The agenda is approved. Next, we'll move on to the meeting minutes. Approving the minutes from April 21st, 2026 meeting of the planning commission. >> Motion to approve. >> Second. >> Second. Uh motion by Lundine, second by
Simon. All in favor say I. I. Any opposed? >> Motion carries 70. Uh first we will move on to public hearing uh G1. Request for the city of Iceni for a zoning text amendment to include all frain frainus. How do you say it? Is that right?
Frainus. Frainus uh species ash trees on the prohibited tree list. I don't think I've ever had to see that say that word before. >> Probably won't ever have to say hopefully not. >> All right, commissioners. So, staff is
requesting that we have a ashtree prohibition added to our zoning ordinance. The zoning ordinance currently does not prohibit the planting of ash trees due to emerald ashbor. Ash trees are no longer sustainable in ice
and they present a liability to property owners as well as the city. Staff is recommending that all trees of frainous genus be added to the prohibited list on the in article 15 of the zoning ordinance. >> Well, I think personally that'll clear
up a lot of issues with some of this. I don't see any reason why we shouldn't do it. So, >> no, I had I had seen that um they were already on what was it the do not recommend list or there was something
>> they were they're not on the allowed or permitted tree list. So they're not on that list, but we do want them to be on the prohibited list, which is a limited amount of trees similar to the asht tree with disease. >> So how does that impact our the study
that's going on right now to get rid of the emerald ash blower with that? >> We already wouldn't be allowing then, but it's more clear, I think, for residents to see that it's prohibited and gives us a further um leg to stand on if somebody tries to plant one in their yard. And so it doesn't do
anything to our current um that is for existing trees within our community. So not any new trees. >> Okay. Is so do people tend to plant a lot of ash trees? They like to plant them. >> No tree no tree service will sell you an asht tree.
>> Okay. So I guess >> is it it's kind of redundant, >> right? That's what I'm trying. >> If you don't put it on there and somebody plants it and then we just create a problem. If we prohibit it and then we don't have to deal with it. someone could have had an asht tree in their parents' backyard that they think
is beautiful, not know it's an asht tree and planted in, you know, a yard. And so there's a lot of different ways people get trees. And so just having it in our list really helps us just to make sure we're not getting them. >> So I guess my question is then we h we
already have them here, right? Like are are we going to make people remove all of their ash trees then if they have any? is that >> eventually they'll they'll all come down. Um the ones in the right of way we're requiring removal for I don't believe we have anything requiring
removal on private property, but eventually they'll become a hazard and homeowners are going to want to take them down. Yeah. >> Right. And that makes sense to me. But so what if what if a a tree just pops up all of a sudden because of a seed that
was transferred into somebody's yard? Um like so what are we looking at with that then? Is that something to where we're keeping an eye out for them just sprouting up? I guess >> wooded area where that's kind of thing
is going to happen then. No, we're not going to do any enforcement on that. This is be if it's in a modem maintained area where the only way for a new tree to grow would be for somebody to plant it. >> Okay. And then what is the what is the punishment then? Like if all of a sudden one does sprout up in someone's yard,
>> you have to take it out. >> Just take it out. That's it. >> Pretty much. >> Okay. All right. I'm I'm just trying to make sense of like if it's already something that we don't recommend to plant. People don't usually plant it. Um
>> it's just to make it more transparent. >> It just seems like more of more regulations that we're adding, but >> it's making more things more transparent. My question would be if it's on a prohibited list, does the city in the future have more authority over those
trees that are still in existence in in people's property? >> No, not becau because of the grandfather clause that doesn't automatically allow us just to do it. We'd have to come up with a new ordinance or a new >> okay >> um law that would allow the removal of
that to happen. And um that doesn't just give us the right to go and do that at this moment in time. >> So what if someone doesn't comply with the removal? >> They refuse. >> They're treated the same as any other zoning violation, right Stephanie?
>> Yes. As administrative permit, they'd have to go through the administrative process of code enforcement. And so we would apply the same rules um and steps that are required through state statute. So starting with a letter giving an
amount of time for them to remove the tree and then so forth um ending with a fine generally. >> Is there a fine schedule associated with that already or would it be some general fine? >> Yep. There's a general fine for administrative permit um violations.
>> Good questions. Anything else on this? >> Make a motion to approve. >> There's a motion on the floor to approve. >> My last followup question would just be there's a grandfather clause, but knowing which trees are pre-imposed, how is that clearly defined?
>> You repeat the question. >> Without like an effective date in the future, knowing which trees are pre and post X date, how would that be mediated? Like how would we determine if a tree was planted before or after the date?
>> Generally, if it's a tree that's reported to us, it's going to be right after it's planted. It's going to be somebody planting it in the right of way or next to a neighboring property that's going to report it, and that's where we're going to find it. We're going to be able to see evidence that this was a freshly planted tree.
>> There's a tree that's an inch in diameter versus one that's 12 in in diameter. I'd say that wasn't just planned today. >> It was a dry year. It >> was a dry year. Motion from Lond. Second by Heman. All in favor say I. I. >> Any opposed?
>> Motion carries 70. Great questions, guys. >> Did you formally open the public hearing? >> Oh. Oh, yeah. That's right. So, we'll open the public hearing if there's anybody here that like to speak on this. >> All right, we'll close the public hearing. >> Hopefully, they already planted it then. So there was a motion by Lundine and a
second by Heman. Again, all in favor say I. I. Any opposed? >> Motion carries 70. That passes. >> Uh next we'll move on to the request by the city of Iani for a zoning text and map amendment to repeal and remove the tier one zoning districts in accordance with Minnesota statute 462.357
subdivision 1. >> All right, commissioners. So the tier one zoning districts are the areas on this map with the aqua colored boundary. I tried to call them out with some yellow arrows, too. That's just four.
>> Yeah, four. I guess there's another one way up to the east that I didn't. >> Yeah, it goes on both sides of Highway 65. So Minnesota state law allows municipalities to extend zoning authority up to two miles beyond city
limits. That's what tier one zoning is. However, that authority is prohibited where county or townships have their own zoning regulations. So we can't have tier one over county zoning or over township zoning.
All applicable areas surrounding city of Isanti have zoning regulations from the county or town chips. So basically it serves no purpose. We have no legal ability to use it as proposing removing it from the ordinance
and the map. >> So I have a couple questions on this and I guess I don't understand why this is suddenly changing. Um, and also if you look at the actual layout, um, 68 of the counties in the state do their own zoning and all the rest of the townships
that aren't included in that that I could find all do their own zoning. So why is this even a state law in the first place if it's just superseded by county and township ordinance? >> I'm not sure why it's a state law, but um, we did have someone question our authority in a tier one zoning district.
And so when we brought this forward to our attorney, they recommended a removal. otherwise we could face other legal issues. Um and so it's stat under statutory changes this is what was amended. um potentially a lot of the
counties especially in greater Minnesota likely didn't have zoning in all of the res areas like especially in the egg areas but um I think as time has gone on and there's been more planning happening in these counties and growth like we've
seen here more zoning has popped up in greater areas in the county and so um that being said we don't have jurisdiction and so it's in our best interest as a city to just remove it from our zoning ordinance um to save us
from a legal issue in the future. >> I will tell you something. Three mayors ago, he used this as a >> I remember I remember >> he used this as a weapon and I at that time I thought that was stupid. >> It was. >> So I'm 100% let's remove tier one. If they want to get annexed into the city,
>> as long as they understand what they're getting annexed in for, that's their choice. I wouldn't force these these properties to get annexed. I don't believe in that word force. Never have, never will. But at this point, if they're tier one, the sooner we get rid of it, the better off it's going to be
for everybody. >> I agree 100% because right now, if anybody who has property on that tier one, they would have to go through the city of Iani for a permit if they want to do something. And it really made it hard, especially for my property. I
mean, I I had to go through the city and I didn't belong to the city and it really I thought it was the city overstepping its boundaries a lot, >> but it does bring in a lot of value because that property there on the on the southeast that was proposed for a
solar farm. We wouldn't have known about that otherwise and that's relevant to the city. You know, that's right on the bordering >> that we still would have known about that because it was part part of it was in the city limits actually. Okay. and and they have to notify us as a neighboring jurisdiction within so many
feet. And so we would have found out about that regardless. Okay. >> But it in in my experience actually for some instances like some of the properties to the souththeast of 65, it actually could we were likely allowing them to do more with their property and
so it was advantageous for them to have more um density in those areas for their commercial businesses. Um but it is confusing for people to have to go to both jurisdictions. >> Sure. >> I think >> one one person for example he is not in
the city of ice. His business his his we'll say his shop is out of the city limits. His house is out of the city limits but he was in tier one and he plowed a road through his field to get
to his house so he didn't have to drive out on the road. And I thought that was totally wrong. This was two or three people before Stephanie came involved and she flexed her muscles and it ticked him off immensely.
I don't see see why we should tell them that he can't put a road through his flipping field when it's not in the city of ice. >> That's why I'm a total advocate for removing tier one. >> How sure are we that this is the right
legal move? I know we've gotten advice from our attorney before that's been we've asked a few more questions and found a few more answers. How sure of this are are you Stephanie? >> I've read state statute myself as well. So I am very certain that we need to
remove this. That is how we were brought it up by some brought up brought up the issue by someone else and once reading it I was like oh no I didn't know this statute existed and then we brought it up to the attorney and um I think that is
>> yes do you know what year do you know what year that statute was passed? >> I have no idea. >> It's been part of this as long as I've been on part of the city. So, I make a motion to approve >> and um the city of Cambridge remove theirs if that helps at all two years ago. >> Yep.
>> So, does the county get notified when it's removed from ours so the county is well aware so that it's not going like a free man's zone where nobody thinks anybody's >> I will personally be notifying them. They just asked I did speak to Holly and Trina at the county about this before we moved anything forward just to see what
they were aware of also. Um and did let them know once we move forward I will let them know as soon as possible. Okay, sounds good. >> I think this is a huge win for individual property rights and I'll definitely second your motion. >> Uh, we have a public hearing public hearing. >> Is there any other discussion amongst
the board? Otherwise, I can open the public hearing. >> We'll open the public hearing if anybody wants to speak on this. Nobody here to speak. We'll close the public hearing. >> Motion still stands. >> I'll second. Motion by Lundine, second by Heman to uh approve of this uh
change. All in favor say I. >> I. >> Any opposed? Motion carries 70. Good discussion. Uh next we will move on to item G3. Consider approval of a conditional use permit for 687 East Dual Boulevard Northeast.
>> All right, commissioners. This is a conditional use permit for Pump Republic Gym to expand into sweet B. 687 school board already located in that building and been operating there for a while. They just be expanding into an additional seat.
The property is zoned I1 industrial which requires a CU for commercial recreation. This is an existing business as I said currently occupying at least two units in the same building. They'd be expanding into sweet B. The proposed use
is consistent with comprehensive plan and zoning ordinance and it's not expected to have an impact on neighboring properties requirements for C. It's consistent with comprehensive plan and zoning ordinance. It'll promote and enhance the general
welfare. Will not prevent the use or enjoyment of neighboring properties. It'll not impede nearby development. and there's adequate public service for to exist. >> Just open the public hearing.
>> Uh I will open the public hearing on this. If there's anybody that like would like to come speak on this hearing none, I will close the public hearing. I would just like to say a big thank you to Pump Republic. I know they've been growing and expanding and I was really excited when they moved from the smaller strip mall into this bigger
location. I'm all in favor of this expansion. I know it's very popular with our community. Um following their stuff on social media, there's a lot of positivity and a lot of um very happy people with that business. So, I I would like to see them expand. >> I make a motion to allow it.
>> I'll second motion by Lundine, second by was that Kudson or Peterson? Second by >> Second by Kudson. All in favor say I. I >> I any opposed? >> Motion carries 70. That passes. Thank you uh for coming in and thank you for expanding your business.
>> Appreciate it. >> All right. Any other business or discussion items amongst the board? >> Motion to adjurnn. >> Second. >> Motion from Peterson, second by Lundine to adjurnn. All in favor say I. >> I. Any opposed? Motion carries 70. We
are adjourned. >> Give me five minutes. I got to use. >> Congratulations. >> So, what legal concerns do you have? >> I don't I don't even care. I mean, any chance I can give property back to its rightful destination, which is a township or a county,
>> I'm on it. I've had people that are in that district that would ra >> I'd rather work with. >> Now you're gonna have one person that's mad and one person that's happy. >> Well, okay. I wanted >> I wanted to add on to my pull bar. City
won't allow pull structure, but yet I got six acres. Why couldn't I add on 20 ft to my pine? >> I agree. >> But what it was all about is they wanted to >> they wanted to control future growth because they know the city's Right. No,
I get it. I get it. >> But county ordinances are way way less stringent than the cities. But some people want to develop and have the ability to have more >> motion to exit recess and resume committed.
Motion to exit recess. Resume committee the whole >> motion recess. >> Motion from Peterson, second by Lundine. All in favor of coming out of recess say I. >> I. Any opposed? Motion carries 5-0. We are out of recess and we will continue discussion. Uh we will move up to item
E3 uh special events chapter 278 ordinance draft. >> Mayor and council, we had the special events um full chapter in the last committee of the whole meeting and I had brought up some points of it takes staff a lot of time. We don't charge a fee for this. It's a lot of additional hoops for
things that maybe should be just planned events given where their purpose is and you know like BMX and things like that. And so we had a discussion and before you I have the draft of a revised uh repeal and replace full for chapter 278. Uh in your memo I do have what the key
changes would be to this ordinance. So I'd like to read those. So if you have any questions please let me know. The city administrator would have the ability to approve special event permits that do not have alcohol, gambling, or significant road closures or traffic congestion. All family members and peaceful assembly and protests are
permitted without a special event permit. Events taking place in a city park, rental or park facility being used for its intended purpose are permitted without a special event. To follow up with that, this would be for when people uh reserve the amphitheater, they were also having to do a special event
permit. So, it just seemed like it was additional work. A security plan would be required when attendance is planned over a thousand people and alcohol is being served. Special event permits will not be required to have a mobile food unit on private property. So, this impacted um if we had graduation parties
who wanted to have one move, you know, taco truck. They had to fill out a special event permit. Um removal of the cleanup fee. What we're seeing is a lot of fees requesting to be waved and council's been waving them. So, why have it? uh a removal of the signed permit fee. We've included this in um so they
don't have to fill out an additional permit. Uh the if they wanted to have signs, they would be able to do so with this special event permit all in one. Removal of notification within 350 ft of the event. Again, we're seeing uh requests to have that waved and it is a
lot of work to do um for people planning an event that most the time takes place at a place where you would expect events like Bluebird Park. language and specifics when the city may participate in supporting certain events and then revised language when a permit may be
terminated if the city incurred costs if the applicant withdrew or canceled their event. So I did have a few questions on that. Um I know we have waved the removal of the cleanup fee and that's generally with um like repeated use people like
the BMX because we obviously have a relationship with them um and you know the rodeo because we have a relationship. Uh but I do worry that if we totally remove that out of there um we might be setting oursel up for issue. Could it be uh that we change that to
something like removal of cleanup fee for you know second time event or people that have had an How about this instead? How about if cleanup isn't completed, you will be fined and charged with the city. >> I think that that would be better
because I cannot think of in all the years, I cannot think of a $100 check that we cashed, okay, >> for that. So, >> I think that what should be a penalty penalty and cost of what public works. do have that now in the new section that's drafted that says, you know, like for example, if there was a big event
that they thought they were coming into town and public works was staging a bunch of work for them, maybe they requested use a fence, but then they backed out after they were given approval by council to do this huge event. We, it is written in there that we can invoice for those costs that we
expended because they canceled their event. So, I can have it something like that. >> Okay. And then Travis, as far as if we go for afterwards for a cleanup fee, would that be an administration type fee that you would have to enforce? >> No. >> So, how would we collect? >> We would have we would invoice them. We
I probably would include language that um they would not be if they did not pay that invoice that they would not be um given approval for a follow-up special event permit or >> any other special event permits. >> Okay. What did you what do you guys think about that? would >> I think it's a lot easier to people are
a lot more concerned about money that's already out of their pocket >> being cash versus it is to go after it post. >> And I've heard I've heard similar requests like this for the ICC the community center because some people don't feel they should have to put a
deposit down first or whatever. Um maybe that's a totally different situation than this. >> I think that is very different and we do cash those checks sometimes. We do use those. Um I would say It's not infrequent either. I mean, not all I wouldn't say regularly we have to
use that, but there are times that we do have to go in and clean up after. So, I would not recommend changing that policy. >> Okay, that sounds fair. Nick or George? Anybody? It would this be the section if let's say we were concerned about police
overtime that we could put that we could put a cap like if if we have more than $5,000 worth of police overtime then we will charge the event. >> So what I did because I know that there might be further discussions. I left this ordinance the way it is written as
as you read it, but I included a sentence in the purpose and intent on section one that states special events may further be defined and regulated in a special events policy approved by council. So if you want to do anything, which is what that language that says that we can participate in certain
events, that'll be a separate policy that we'll do by resolution. So if we're making changes, we could do it by resolution, not by changing the ordinance. >> Okay. >> Okay. >> That makes makes it clear. But one thing, Travis, let's say somebody held an event at Bluebird Park and they had alcohol. How
many officers would you have to have extra? >> That's a good question. So, I did reach out to several other jurisdictions on do they my question was, do you have a matrix that you utilize? And there isn't one because the answers I got is every event they have at every jurisdiction is
different. If you had the crafters that are having wine tasting is different than the bikers that are having a rally, right? So that's why there is no matrix and that's why I that recommendation for the security plan is to kind of see what
they have and evaluate it from there based on so the other jurisdictions look at the type of event the location of the event past history of those events and then leave it up to the police chief to decide what staffing is appropriate for those events based on all those factors. So the question that I'm looking at,
let's say you had to put two extra offers officers on on overtime. The event lasts from 6 until midnight. So say six hours. How much is that in overtime for two officers?
>> Well, depending on the year, right? Because we have to go off contract language per year. So we don't want to put that into any >> No, I know. I'm just looking at baseline. $86070 approximately. >> So that so that like you said
>> just in overtime. >> Yeah. >> So you you know like you you brought up the question of course >> that's just like you brought up the question 5,000 that's $800. So if you even say say it it doesn't exceed a th000. So if it went, you know,
seven hours, you know, I did, you know, what dollar amount we'd have to language he's got, but I think it's something that we keep in our head to think about. You know, >> I would recommend having that in a policy and not a dollar amount, have a zero dollar amount because again, every
situation's different. Um, I just don't want to be throwing staffing out at a X dollar amount, >> right? The reason I came up with 5,000, it's it's just just one reason is our average street dance is 5,000. So, we're using taxpayer money
mostly for these street dances. So, I was thinking, okay, it's an event that draws people within the city and they go with their families and have a good time. Well, so is an event. No matter what the event within the city, it's the same thing. So, I was using that number
as a baseline whether whether that's I know what I know what you're saying, but I was just referring to the fact is I don't disagree with that. I mean, when there's endure costs other than our rodeo jubilee days, you know, the car
shows, street dances, other than those events, somebody has another event and all of a sudden they're serving alcohol in there. Ain't no ain't nothing the city's collecting anything from at this point or the residents because it's somebody's special event that they're
putting on themselves. I don't I don't agree that we should I don't I don't disagree that we should be charging for our officers time because that is costing our taxpayers money, >> right? >> You know, we do have the street dances. That is something for our community. Rodeo is something for our community.
Rodeo jubilee days is something for our community. Those are hard things that I have a hard time saying no to, you know, you know, saying that we should be charging for that. But on the other hand, somebody puts on a special event for their own benefit
where they're just paying the city, you know, $200 or $250 or something to put on this event. We're not cing we're not getting our money back for our extra officers at that point. That's that's the only reason I bring that up. you know, private individuals events should
not be on the taxpayers's dollar. >> So, Josie, can I ask um in one of those things it says security plan required when attendance is over a thousand and alcohol iss thousands of people as long as alcohol is not served or can that be an andor?
>> No, that's just a there is some um emergency preparedness if you look in the >> That should be an or. >> I I just that's what I'm thinking. It should be >> and it doesn't matter whether alcohol is served or not. I kind of think there should be a security plan. >> Yep. Or instead of and
>> right. I don't know how we have it worded for cannabis parties, but they have such thing as cannabis parties. So I don't know that should >> and or intoxicating substance. >> If a thousand people are there, I think there should be. I don't I don't know what
>> security plan >> that that would the or is appropriate. And then would it be more appropriate to have intoxicating substance instead of just alcohol because now you can have >> cannabis in the realm we're in now that would be appropriate as well. >> Okay. >> Not seeing what
>> intoxicating substance instead of the word alcohol >> what the future has in store for us. Yeah. >> Okay. Good question. Uh and I did have the removal of the notification within 350 foot of feet of an event. Could we add if within a park? Because like you'd
said, if it's with a within a park, you expect if you live by a park, there's going to be events in that park. But if say my neighbor was going to have this huge party and it's not in a park and you aren't notified of it, I think that's a little bit maybe not appropriate. If that makes sense.
>> When it's downtown for the street dances. >> Well, I guess that's not within a park, is it? But that's a city event. >> Don't matter. Still, it's still >> have to do the SUP. Okay. Um, >> I guess I'm fine with these changes. It's going to make their lives easier.
>> I'm sorry to interrupt. We are posting on um our website special events that are being approved. So I don't >> but nobody's looking at that. Let's be real. Like people aren't going out to see, oh my neighbor, is my neighbor going to have a party this year? They're not people aren't going to look at the website for something like that.
>> But it was one of the points we had made. We were hoping to put those events on the website so people would have access to them. I think once word gets out, you know, people will start looking at it more. >> I don't know. >> I don't know. I guess as a >> wife tells me more about what's going on
in the city than I know and I'm on the council. I mean, she's look she's constantly looking at I don't go to the website. I mean, she's asked me, "Well, what's what's this?" Huh? I have no idea. >> I could just see a situation where somebody's like their neighbors having a big party and they pull a permit and
then the neighbors are upset because they weren't notified. So the rodeo request to wave theirs. They're not within a park, but like so certain. >> So maybe like commonly occurring events. >> I guess my I'm trying to remove language that is things that were requiring them
to maybe do but not do sometimes because we're allowing some to wave it. >> I understand. I just see that as being >> let's think of um events that have come through that we would want to have the notification.
>> So like the family event series that's in a park. Okay. We got street dance. We maybe someone's doing a um uh the biker rally through town. That one doesn't get notified of anyone because there's no specific place. Block parties aren't included because you don't have to have a special event
permit for that. um the farmers market, but we just allowed them to move and we didn't notify those people within 350 ft. So, is is it really realistic that we want to have that done?
>> Would you have any sort of um what's the word? Any sort of ability to decide on something like that? Like if there was some event >> we do already have Yeah, we do. We could because it does say in here that the city administrator or designate is is permitted to require additional
information or additional uh that's in here. Yeah. >> Okay. So, if you had an event that you had might have concerns about the neighbors being concerned, you could ask them to do this. >> Okay. >> I trust staff on this one. I think it anything we can do to make it easier for our residents to do business within the
city and throw events. Um this is making it a lot easier. >> We'll have less stuff come in front of us. Uh, I think it puts less obstacles in front of people doing events and staff's easy to work with on events. So, I think it'll go I think this will be easier for everybody.
>> It's a lot of work to notify >> the people and if you don't get the right address, it comes back to you. Then they never got notified anyways, you know, because mail takes a while to come back to you. Your events already over. We see that too, even with city events that we've done, >> right? Do you think you're losing any
potential value by getting advertising out of those mailers? Like will people that live by the parks that maybe wouldn't go to the event, but then they get the mailer and then they decide to go to the event. Is there you think there'd be any of that? >> It's possible that if they have a a 5K
run that's open to the public, it's possible. >> Okay. >> Any other questions or concerns? The thousand person threshold for security seems pretty high to me. >> That's just requiring a security plan, which we've never required in the past.
It's something that I wanted to include going forward, >> which means that that the applicant would then have to provide us with all the details on what are they providing for security, um their staffing numbers, their site location, if they're doing any fencing and crowd control stuff.
>> They Yeah. And they still do have to even under a thousand, they still have to do a public health plan, um a fire prevention, an emergency medical plan, parking plan, sa safety plan if there's pedestrian crossings. So, it's just some
a little in addition if there's over a thousand, but they still have to do a lot of others as listed there. >> And that would kind of just probably prelude to some of the discussions council's had in the past, you know, as far as what staffing we would require. I wouldn't know what staffing that would
require until I know what they're providing and what they're doing for their security plan. Right. So, it's to help that decision-m process as well. >> You think we need to clean up the language in that and say a thousand people at any given time, something like
that? Because there's some events that >> You're right. There's some events that even a car show that might only have 300 people >> at any given time. fine because all they got to do is write up what it is and once we look at it >> if if they say they only have 300 people
at a time well that's going to decipher on what their security protocols would be as well >> right additional we can ask for that information too if they're like well we only have 300 people but Travis reviews it and he's like you know I'm concerned I still want to see that safety plan we can still have that request >> how good are these applicants actually
forecasting the people expected versus actually showing up though >> well that's part of them event for their planning event. It's no different than any event that happens in town, they're planning for a certain amount of people. And just like you could have a thousand
people show up at the park when there's no event planned. I mean, so that happens as well, too. >> Two other things I want to bring up as part of this. Um, in doing my research, all cities charged a fee for this
permit. Uh, there were some cities that waved for nonprofits. Um, and I would say if I had to go on the average, it was the $50 fee just to cover for a minimal amount of staff time and processing. Do we want to consider having a fee or do we want to remain at
zero? That's tough because if you remain at zero, at least we're notified and there's no barrier for them to say, "Hey, we're just we don't want to pay the fee, so we're not going to tell the city." But at the same point, you don't want to go in the hole for >> But if they don't get a permit and they're in violation of this ordinance, we can shut their event down.
>> Sure. It's tough. >> I like the way it's wrote right now. Well, let's just leave it. >> What do you What's everybody else think? I mean, how much time are we? >> I have to think about that for a minute. Like, what are cities around us doing?
Is it 2550? I mean, do we charge to rent our pavilions or Yes. >> at Bluebird Park? Not if they're a resident. The amphitheater is, but not like the pavilion or the just the >> shelter thing. um >> like if someone's having a 5K run out
there and they didn't rent the amphitheater, you know, they go through there's a lot of back and forth for staff to get this information. And this is even less I mean in a way that we can do it without having to draft a memo and a resolution and get everything teed up for council because we can review it
just on the staff's end. But still there is a lot of back and forth with events and you're you have you know multiple staff people re reviewing it. So I just want to make sure that we still are all on the same page that we should not charge a fee.
>> I don't know about that. That's tough. >> I'm open to that only because then it it pays back a little bit of the time that's taken for that. And I think it too it just I don't know. It's just these are what we want to protect, right? like our shelters, our parks, our
streets. >> Well, they need a permit to rent the shelter. >> What's that? >> They would need a permit for the shelters. >> No, it's just a rental. There's no permit >> or I'm sorry, a fee for the shelter >> if they're a resident. There's no fee or a nonprofit.
>> But if they they could do a shelter and event for no cost >> if they're a resident. >> And if you're not a resident, it's $10. So there is some wear and tear on equipment. >> I could I could see us increasing that. We should increase that number certainly
because they're not paying city taxes. >> So that to me, we should increase that number to at least cover our cost minimum if we're going to do anything on it because if they're not residents, they're not paying taxes. So they shouldn't have access to that for that cheap like everybody else. >> Is it possible to get an idea of what
people around us are paying >> and our fees? I would love to look at that and then make a decision based on that. Didn't you say $50? >> I said that probably the the most common number was about $50. Yep. I don't didn't see any over about a hundred. Um
some are 25, but yeah, I can put that comparison together and include that. Uh that would need to be added to the fee schedule anyways. It wouldn't be part of this chapter. So, I'll still bring this chapter forward at the next or in the next couple council meetings. Um but then that would be a change to chapter
160 if we did. So, >> if you have a recurring event, that's just one time fee. Correct. So, if you're going to put in a thing and you're going to have a weekly market, >> just this example, it would just be the one time. It's not a weekly. >> Correct. It would be >> a onetime review fee.
>> One time. Yep. >> Listen, >> if your event had that I'm doing this car show on seven days throughout the summer, it's a onetime like $50 fee. >> Okay. Listen, we don't collect enough $50 fees to really make it different on staff time and let's just make it easier
for the events and and for the residents because a lot of them are local doing it. Um, and just keep it the way we have it right now. That's my opinion. I don't really care what other cities are doing around what other cities are doing around us. I want to do what we think is best for our citizens or our residents.
That's the way I look at it. >> Are you okay with increasing the fee for non-residents? >> That I am. >> Okay. I agree with that. >> If you're talking about for shelters or except for the >> I don't know about the >> blueber huh
>> nonprofits. >> Well, definitely not for nonprofits and and not for uh Blueberg Park because we need to rent that out as >> You mean the amphitheater? >> Yeah, the amphitheater. >> That's already there's already a charge associated with that. It's like 100
>> non-resident and resident for anybody. >> So, it's a flat rate no matter either or. >> Um, I will look at that. I think it's done by the hour. I think it's half day, full day, like 175 and more. >> I would like to keep that the same because we have a hard enough time
renting it out anyway. So, let's just keep, you know, let's not charge non-residents more because if we can find a non-resident wants to rent it out once a month and can fill some dates, that'd be great, >> right? Yeah. And I don't think we're talking about that specifically. We were just talking about a special event permit and a the shelter use specifically.
>> So staff can make a note and when we review the next time we have other fees going in with the fee schedule change because it wouldn't probably be cost effective to make that small change to do whole ordinance amendment. Um but we'll make note of it so when we have other changes coming forward we can bring that forward.
>> Yeah. It sounds like maybe consensus is to not charge especially event permit fee. >> Yes. But I will say I I still would like I'm I'm guessing you guys haven't planned any big birthday parties or gatherings. Um it's expensive to rent a pav to to have a pavilion that you can
get for free is like like that's insane. >> If I had to pay $25 or $50, I wouldn't blink an eye at it because I know what it would cost to go to somewhere private where I can't bring my own food, where I can't bring my own drinks. >> That fee is almost nothing.
>> But we already do charge. Not for residents >> even without not but they still have to notify you and let you >> well yes they yes they still do rent reserve it yes >> so they reserve it but there's no fee
>> man I thought I read somewhere there was a fee for those okay >> we can bring information at a future cow just so everyone's knowledgeable in all of it so we'll bring that forward >> and I will tell you that the the county parks um a while back they didn't charge and I'm pretty sure now they charge I
don't remember if it was $50 or $80 but we had had that discussion and we do the county parks do charge for pavilion usage for the same reasons >> wear and tear by having more events out of >> just offset the mostly to offset the staff time >> Lake George was charging 25 years ago to use a pavilion
>> Travis can I ask you when you drive around do you ever on weekends when they're probably mostly used do you see them being used much >> rarely >> I know >> but People do appreciate using them. I know there's people that have like a little graduation party and they use the
pavilion. It >> I see birthday parties all the time. >> Yeah, that's what they're Bluebird especially. >> Yeah, there's balloons. >> There's been conflicts with with too many people on one day before. I've had to deal with that. So, they're getting used. >> So, is there a reservation process? >> Yeah, definitely.
>> Well, we're going to look at it future later. >> And then there was one more thing that I would like to talk about during this section. So when we I revised the special event permit chapter, it brought to light some items in the mobile food
unit section of that chapter uh 245. So in your packet on page 23, I included um the red line changes. So, we're looking to make the change that mobile food units may operate on private property provided the owner property owner requires all responsible all appropriate
excuse me state licenses per the Minnesota Department of Health as applicable assumes responsibility and holds the insurance liability for their activities and conduct. So, this is again getting back to if there is a graduation party in someone's backyard and they want to have a taco truck, they don't have to get a special event permit
and we're allowing them to do so. Um the other change is we've gotten quite a few questions about novelty, what that means with the ice cream truck. So kind of the intent of council versus how the language came out. We thought it would be clarified to say ice cream mobile food units or mobile food
units of similar nature as approved by the city clerk are permitted to operate within the public rightway in residential districts. >> Okay. >> Um and then just cleaning up that language down below to be consistent with the new chapter of special events. So there's no
conflicting information between chapters. So if you're okay with that, at the council meeting that we bring forward the new chapter of special events, we will also bring forward a new chap a revised chapter um section for mobile food units. I did have a question
on the uh the top of that page 23 there item A where like the second sentence where it says mobile food mobile food units may be allowed in public rights away residential zoning districts or parking park zoning districts in conjunction with an approved special event permit. Do we have to have that
written anywhere? Uh does this does this new ordinance say that they cannot have the mobile food units in in the rightway or residential zoning districts or >> that language that is struck that a at the top that is stricken out that basically said you cannot have a tapo
truck for your grad party without a special event permit. So that's taking that language out. >> Yeah, I see that for the first sentence, but the second sentence I guess doesn't. >> It's all winding through. Mobile food units may be allowed in public rights of
ways. >> So, are we saying that if we strike this out, it's not allowed in a public right away? >> No, it is. Well, it's a zoning thing for like a taco truck can't just drive through the residential district. Is that what you
mean? You want them to be able to or not? >> No, I I guess I'm just thinking public right away like >> this is just in the residential neighborhoods. >> Okay. So, they can't park on the street outside a house and just have the whole neighborhood come eat their tacos,
>> but they can in non-residential areas. >> Yes. >> Okay. All right. That makes sense then. >> And I think that the intent of council when they kind of made those changes was to make sure that we didn't have kids going up to, you know, truck mobile food
trucks, you know, driving around and kids clean outside and kind of more of a hazard thing. >> Okay. So, >> the margarita truck. >> What page? >> Who owns that? >> What pages is the exact language on uh ice cream trucks? >> 23 >> 23
>> 23 E- 27 letter E. >> So, are we still requiring a background check on mobile food trucks? So if if there's a ice cream truck but it's not mobile,
let's just say it's parked at a vent, it would not be required to do a background check, but if it's going to be mobile and start going down the streets with their bells, then it needs a background check. Is is the language in there that actually says that or should it be in there? >> That was always intended.
>> Yeah, that was the intent. >> That's the intent. That's not the sections, but yes, we didn't change that. >> Okay. Good question. Any other questions or concerns? >> Looks good. >> All right. You guys have direction there? >> Yes. Thank you.
>> Yep. No problem. Uh next we will move on to the park advertising and sponsorship policy. I'll have a little discussion on this. Um so I started a committee uh for fundraising for the city parks. Uh we've met a few times. uh we have some pretty solid groundwork laid out and continue
to work on ideas and different rollout strategies. We've looked over the rough draft of the policy uh that and have a few recommendations. I asked them to also look it over more in depth now that we have that draft. We didn't have it until yesterday. Um so we talked about a few different changes
um to that policy and I'll go through that. So if you look at page 54 of your packet, uh there is a subsection there that says geographic business. Uh one thing that we have talked about is we've talked
about actually reaching out to larger more corporate type sponsors for this type of thing like say an example I don't know Fleet Farm which is not based in Iani. Um this right here it says city of Iani only. Um but I don't think we should limit ourselves on something like
this. if if say Fleet Farm wants to u buy a banner to put on the skatepark bowl to advertise or sponsor the skatepark bowl, I don't think that should just be based. Um so that was something that the committee uh seemed to think we should potentially change. I don't know how you guys feel about that.
>> And I I will say that this came from our existing sponsorship policy as well as illuminated ice and all that. So that's where this came from. >> Sure. And we don't necessarily follow that 100% to a tea the way it is now. Well, it does say that it it would be permitted if it was a city authorized
event sponsorship. So, I think then the city would have the discretion. >> Okay. So, >> to allow Fleet Farm or a business in Cambridge to promote on our because I know that that actually has come up on our skate park. I believe that if the city authorized it, it would be permitted. That's how I read that.
>> Okay. I guess I would rather not have that in there because I think it gives a false misser's representation that only city businesses can. >> Well, I will can I just add though that um >> and Stephanie maybe she wrote it so I won't speak on over her but I think that
maybe the intent of that and the original policy is so you don't have other entities not in Iani getting bumping them out. So it almost gives a preference to city of Iani businesses first. So could >> and then you allowing others.
>> Could we just put that first? Preference may be given to us, >> right? As a preference. I think I think we should have something in there. Okay. So then you know you didn't have like I mean I don't know I didn't know what it would be a great example but businesses from all over the place were like hey I'm going to buy every
sponsorship sign and then there's no sure >> none available for city businesses. >> So maybe just a preference too. >> Yeah. >> Okay. I think that would be okay wording. >> Um and then you go on to the next page page 55. It says message standards uh signs might identify the sponsor but shall not contain calls to action price
information indications of savings or qualitative descriptions. Now there was a little bit of discussion on this. What is necessarily a call to action is a QR code considered a call to action. Um and as far as our discussion amongst our group was if if a company wants to put their phone number on there or if they
want to you know have some sort of something that they request if they pay for the advertising or sponsorship space. I don't know that we should be telling them what they can or can't put on as far as that goes. Uh so that was a an item of discussion. Um we recommended
to strike that item. I don't know how you guys feel about that or if you've read >> I think call to action is more of a intent to call how would I say it? You know, let's let's have a let's have a rally against
this or that. I think to me that's the way I understand that a QR code, no phone number, no pricing, you don't want to put they don't want to put pricing on there because if they're stuck with it, >> you're stuck with it for that duration of that sign. So I I think that call to
action is more intented to call for protesting things or political rhetoric >> which is not covered. You can't do political. No, but I mean I think to me that's the way I understand that call to order. >> Okay. What Stephanie, what's your
interpretation of the calls to action in that section? >> Um I would have said the same thing and also just for political calls to action um or things of that nature also what prevents from people doing um protesting things etc. >> Okay. That is already covered in the
political section of this though too. >> It's a little more broader. >> Okay. To me, I don't think that's telling them that they can't advertise their business. I think that to me, call to action is requesting people to do certain things that you probably wouldn't do.
>> So, a QR code would not count as a call to action. >> I would say you could limit it specifically in here, like allowed for phone numbers or QR codes that lead you to a business website would be allowed. I think we would call it out.
>> Okay, that sounds Sounds good. I entertain a motion to recess. >> I already made one. >> What? Second there. Uh motion from Peterson, second from Zidon. All in favor say I. >> I. Any opposed? >> Motion carries 5-0. We go into recess
and we'll pick up council in 3 minutes. How are we doing? All right, it is 7 p.m. We'll call this city council meeting to order. If we could all rise for the pledge of >> allegiance. Algian to the flag of the United States of America and to the republic for which
it stands. One nation under God, indivisible, with liberty and justice for all. >> Doing roll call. All voting members are present. Uh we will open up the floor for public comment. And I'll just remind people a couple of the ground rules. Uh we have a threeminute limit on public
comment. And please keep it to official city business and not personal or political attacks. Council member Heman will be the timekeeper and he will have a one minute sign when you have one minute remaining. Uh if there's anybody for public comment this evening, you're welcome to come forward and just state your name and address for the record.
>> I think they're both on. >> This was taller. Okay. Uh my name is Matthew O'Keefe. I live at 27231 Beayshore Drive Northwest, Minnesota. I am coming here to ask some clarification from you, mayor. Uh earlier either it was either today or yesterday, you
commented replying to somebody else talking about something from your Luke Merrill for Ianti mayor page saying um that the reason people cannot afford food is quote because the government steals half our income to give to Somali's freeloaders wasteful
and then said imagine if we didn't pay 50% of our income to the taxes of one variety or another. We can't keep throwing away more taxpayer money at issues and expecting any different results. So my question for you is one, is this your official position as the
representative of Ianti? >> I could have my opinion just like everybody else. >> Yes, you can. But this is from your official mayor page. So is this your official position as the representative of Ianti? >> I already answered that question. Move on. >> No, you did not. Yes or no?
>> I think I'll I think we don't answer. You can. >> We don't have to answer what you you want to say. >> Okay. Well, then would you be willing to define wasteful >> It's pretty clear what I believe. >> No, it is not. It's rather vague. Please describe what you think is wasteful >> So, this is a time for public comment,
not for Q&A. >> Okay. Well, then I will just continue talking. So, additionally, the calls on the Somali community in particular to me appear to be incredibly racist and an attack at a very specific marginalized community that is being attacked from
all different angles of our government. This is an attack from a sitting city official at a marginalized community and he may argue that they engage in fraud, but that is the actions of a very small group of people within this community. If we judged him based on the actions of
small groups of individual people that his identity groups align with, we would be calling him and be way more afraid of him for so many more reasons. We would be calling him a terrorist or a shooter or a sexual harasser or any number of these things. But he is specifically
calling out this community. This is a sitting representative using his platform to spread racism and hate towards a group of people who are incredibly marginalized in our communities. Thank you for your time. >> Anybody else for public comment?
>> Come on up and just state your name and address for the record. Thank you for coming in, sir. >> My name is Walter Hansen and uh I live at 405 11th Avenue Northwest. Miss Annie, I want to know why I can't get any
satisfaction of a neighbor with a loud pickup every morning. I've talked to you, Luke, and I've talked to Steve about it and I can't get anybody to do anything.
And in October, I had a heart attack. Three weeks ago, I had a stint or had a defibrillator put in and I'm just trying to get some rest. And this vehicle goes by at 6:30 in the morning. Then he comes back, then he goes again
by seven, three times. And I don't understand why this is allowed. Then on top of it in around my neighborhood, we've got commercial vehicles,
tractor like tractor trailers, tractors parked in people's yards. When did that be allowed? And I understand because I talked to Jimmy Gordon that yes, vans and things like
that for utility was supposed to be what it was, but couldn't be. Now you got everything out of control. I mean, pretty soon be parking on the street with the tractor trailers. That's coming. Believe me, when I lived in
California, I seen it. and they had to do had to put it kibashes to it. So that's my two things I wanted to talk about. >> Okay. >> And I thank you for your time. >> Yes. Thank you for coming in and thank you. We've had the the conversation. Um
and I did forward it to uh police and I'm not sure if if they're on the lookout or how that works. Uh there is noise ordinance stuff. I don't know how all that works though. Chief Myers knows more about that information if if you care to add anything to that or not. No, there there's violations of noise
ordinance. I I can't get into it, but we do have some ICRs pulled up as far as the days the officers have sat out there in the mornings and at least the few times they have been there haven't had any. Doesn't mean it's not happening. It just the times they were there at that specific time they haven't. >> Okay,
>> we'll continue. >> Okay, sounds good. Thank you, Travis. Uh, is is there anything from city staff that they'd like to add to that as far as the the tractor trailer ordinance? I know we had talked about that with commercial trucks. Um, I believe they're supposed to have that you could have the commercial truck, but it have to be
parked on your driveway and it had to be a certain amount of feet off of the roadway. Um, and all of that. Maybe we could just talk about that later. >> Yeah, I'd have to pull up Mayor C. I'd have to pull out the ordinance. Um but there were significant changes uh made to the ordinance that permitted for the
parking of things that could have even been like a bus and a driveway. Now um the specifics of that I don't have off top of my head. However, it it it was considerably um restrictions lessened when modifications were made to that chapter.
>> Yep. And that was at the request of people who drove those vehicles every day for work and we're trying to be friendly. But we also I remember we spent a significant amount of time trying to make sure there were checks in place so that it wasn't an obstruction. I think we even talked about you have to have a certain length driveway or a certain size property to allow for this.
So, uh maybe we can just revisit that and if there's a specific address in mind, if you could send that to me or get a hold of me and we can look into that specific property for you if that sounds good. >> Okay. Okay.
>> Okay, sounds good. Uh, next, uh, public comment. Is there anybody else for public comment? Hearing none, uh, we will close the public comment and we will move on to adopting the of the agenda. >> Motion to adopt. >> Second. >> Motion by Heman, second by Lundine. All
in favor say I. I. Any opposed? Motion carries 5-0. Next, we have proclamations. Uh, so we have one proclamation here recognizing the graduated class of 2026. And I will read that off. Recognizing Iani graduates, class of 2026. Whereas this time of year is cause
for celebration asi students are presented as graduating seniors and paving the way toward improving the quality of life for young people with the graduating diplom graduation diploma. And whereas the class of 2026 makes our citizens proud of their commitment to responsible citizenship and supports opportunities for
graduating seniors in our community that include higher education, housing, employment, and recreational activities. And whereas the class of 2026 will be our future leaders, pioneers, creators, motivators, and role models. Now therefore, I Luke Merrill, mayor of the city of Iani, do hereby congratulate all
Iani graduates of the class of 2026 for their dedication, hard work, and commitment. So, congratulations to everybody in the community and I know we do have um the class of 2026 banners that we uh the graduation banners that we put up in the summer. So, if anybody's interested in that program um for next year, please uh reach out to
us. And then we also have a M MMBA pet supply drive check uh presentation. So, I'll read off some of the background on that. Uh, Roughstart Rescue is an animal rescue organization that is dedicated to saving at risk animals through a network of volunteers, fosters, and adopters in
East Central Minnesota, including Isani since 2010. As part of the 13th annual MMBA pet supply drive, donations were collected for Rough Start Rescue of Princeton. Donations came from customers rounding up at the registers or by dropping cash in a donation bucket. 100% of the donations received have been
forward to Roughstart Rescue. Uh we're grateful for all the folks that shop by San Liquor and their willingness to support organizations that work to strengthen our local community. On behalf of the customers of San Liquor, we'd like to present the check for $3,999.19
uh to Rough Start Rescue. If you'd want to come forward and we can present the check and take a photo, >> excited to be here. Glad you held up on the long This is Buddy's first city council meeting ever, so I think it's going
going well so far. Um, I wanted to just say a few words on behalf of everybody at Rough Start. Um, so I know that yes. Okay. Um, so any liquor has been a great been a great partner of ours for the last few years. Um, as well as you
know I county for a very long time now. Um, Azure who is our founder. Um, started the rescue in 2010 and since then we've rescued over 33,000 animals. Um, and a lot of the support um, you know, we're very proud to be so rural and to stay rural in our roots. Um, and
so a lot of what we do goes to support just the local communities around the area of Princeton and Iani County as well. Um, last year we were able to donate about 40,000 pounds of food to the local communities. Um, and that is, you know, food for dogs, cats, critters,
all of that sort of thing. So, um, very fortunate to be able to donate back into the communities that have given us so much. Um and every dollar raised really stays very local and we're very good at stretching those dollars as far as possible as many nonprofits know how to do. So um once again just so grateful
for the support year year after year and um so thankful to be a part of this community and you know just to have that support. So thank you. >> Thank you. We appreciate your service. >> All right. We will move on to approval of the city council meeting minutes from
May 5th, 2026. Are there any questions? Motion to approve. >> Why do you just second? >> Second. >> Motion by Lundine, second by Peterson. All in favor say I. >> I. Any opposed? >> Motion carries. 5-0. Next, we have the
announcements. The park and recck board meeting will be Tuesday, May 26, 2026 at 6 p.m. The economic development authority, Tuesday, June 2nd, 2026 at 6:30 p.m. Uh, city council meeting, Tuesday, June 2nd, 2026 at 7 p.m. And next, we will open it up for county
communications. I don't see anybody here from the county, but just a reminder to the county employees and uh elected officials, we have a time allotted for you during our announcements if you have any. Uh, next we'll move on to the council committee reports. Who wants to go first? Go ahead.
>> I'll go. Um, we had I I met BMX and I think the most important thing that I learned was we had put a few extra officer time. We had some overtime into that event and they said there was probably two dozen people that were spoken to that cross the barriers that
were placed on the other side and people continued to go around the barriers to cut through that and they were very thankful for it and I think it was a good decision on our part to allow that to happen and it was a very successful event and yeah there's some few other
things they'd like to talk about but I gonna let them finish their discussion before bringing it here to update all of us. >> I need someone to fill in for me on park and wreck at the next meeting. I'm going to be out of town. >> Pick me.
>> You're it. Thank you. >> And I'm going to try and make some of that meeting. I have a county park board meeting the same day and a little bit before, but I'd like to come there and I might speak about the the um sponsorship committee that I'm working on. So, I
hope to get there. Uh, maybe we'll pencil that into the agenda. Uh, if I can get there to have a little discussion so that the the park board kind of has an idea and maybe somebody there will want to get involved. >> Nick, did you have any? >> Yeah, community education advisory
council met. Um, they're they haven't settled their budget for next year. It has to go before the school board, but their rough estimate, they were trying to save some money anyway, expecting that their cost of operating would go up in 2027
or 28. It was 2027. They're expecting their operating expenses to go up. Uh, and they're also expecting a decrease in adult education revenue. Um, so they didn't want to give out numbers, but they're expecting it to go down and
they're planning accordingly. >> Okay. >> Well, I know part of that is because they have to put preschool teachers. >> Yeah. There's a unfunded mandate that requires that the preschool teachers maintain a higher level certification. So, their operating expenses, they're
expecting to go up like I think4 million dollars per year for all the prek stuff. I think 200,000. I can't remember. 100 to 200,000 as a preschool teacher. >> Yeah. >> Like this is pretty important to me. But yeah, I would love to be paid a living wage.
>> And there's also the um summer unemployment increase to the operating budget as well. >> That's an intense mandate >> or law. I think it's actually a law. It is now. >> Yeah. >> But I know that's that's hitting all
aspects of the the school budget wise. So that's been a heavy discussion item every year the last few years since that was implemented. You know hopefully maybe the state next year will consider funding part of that so the local doesn't have to suffer as much. The schools have some you know millions of dollars unfunded mandates with the free
school meals and the summer unemployment that they do have an effect. So anything else from that one or your other committees? >> Uh we meet tomorrow. >> Okay. Uh all right. So I did have um the county committee that that's a newly
started one. I went to the county uh committee of a whole meeting and they had the county flock camera discussion. Um so that is available that anybody want if anybody wants to hear more about that. Um I believe it was May 12th uh county committee of a whole meeting. There's a lot of information in that. Um
so you're welcome to go there and listen to that. Uh the most uh pressing thing for us or the most um interesting thing for us is you know last year we talked about how we had changed to Oracle for our records management software as a police department. Um they are actually
looking at another vendor and from the sounds of it sounds like they're it is approved now. Okay. So there they switched to another vendor. Um, it's under the same umbrella as the current company, but it's a different type of software. And correct me if I'm wrong here anywhere, Travis, but it's going to be better for the officers. And the
initial, I believe first five years of expenses is actually less than it was before countywide. So hopefully that trickles down to less for us. If >> I think like we have an expenditure will be a $6,000 expenditure and then instead of a 4% annual increase over what we
were paying, it goes to a 5%. So, >> okay. >> Comparatively to any other system, that would be hundreds of thousands of our burden. >> Sure. >> The economics are a no-brainer on it, too. >> Yep. And how that works is it's it's paid by officer. Correct me again if I'm
wrong. So, all the county, you have a total aggregate of all the officers, including, you know, Bram PD, police, everybody that uses it. And we pay per our percentage of officers. So, if we have 10 officers and the county has 100 total, we pay 10% of that through our budget. Um, and I believe they said I
don't remember if it was the first year. There's there's some years in there that were cheaper. Um, must have >> year one. >> Was it just year one? Okay. >> So, like year one was a cost savings and that was going to be the percentage that referencing. >> It sounds about right. Um, so that was something important for us. I know that was a little bit of a struggle last year
for our police department. So, I'm happy that hopefully this one is, you know, problem free transition, which I think should be because it's the same company. And I have meetings every day this week for the rest of my committee. So I will come back uh in two weeks with more committee reports.
Any other committee reports? All right. Hearing none, we will move on to business item K1, resolution uh to consider approval of special event permit for firefighters rodeo association annual rodeo 2026. Mr. Becker.
>> Good evening, mayor and council. The St. Firefighters Rodeo Association has submitted a special event application for their 50th annual rodeo. The event will take place July 9th to 12th of 2026 at the rodeo grounds. They're expecting
5,500 people per day to attend. They have included a parking impact plan. Um temporary signage, additional restrooms, security will be provided by best security, EMS services will be
provided by fire district and Hill. They are requesting that the following fees be waved. Clean up deposit fee of 100, temporary sign fee of 50, and proof of written notification to the property owners within 300 ft of the
event. Requesting baseball field lights to stay on Friday, Saturday night for security reasons. uh police uh has given approval for the following
conditions. They must be must be an emergency vehicle within 100 ft of all buildings with a minimum width of 20. Two parking spots will be available directly next to the west and east
entrances for police and EMS vehicles. Police department will respond to verify individual possessing firearms. All identification cards scanned and valid invalid IDs turned over
staff is requesting action on this item. >> So I did have one question. I see there's a something in here about notification. I just want a little clarification. Does public works put out the notifications or do they or are we not doing that this year? It was a little confusing in this packet.
We've never put it on. >> Okay. >> So, that that would be a fire department thing. It's it's in here. >> Notification. >> Uh public notice within 350 ft. >> They're asking that's what was it is standard in our special event permit application ordinance right now that all
events must do that. They're asking have that waved. So, they've never sent those out for their event. >> Okay. I still saw it's still in the packet what they would put out. So, that's why it was a little confusing. There's a fly or like a notification in there. >> We make them submit that with their application
>> even if they don't have to put it out. >> Well, yeah, they're requesting it to be waved. Okay. So, >> all right. No problem. Sounds good. >> As you can hear, the years that they've been putting on this rodeo, and I think we've always had a great working partnership with them. So, I'm making a
motion to approve with the removal of the waving of the fees for cleanup and the uh special permit signs as requested. >> There motion on the floor. Any other discussion or is there a second?
>> I'll second. >> Motion by Lundine, second by Heman. All in favor of approving say I. I. Any opposed? I motion carries 41. Uh I'm just opposed because I would like to have a little
more discussion at some point about um the police overtime. I know we've talked about it before. Um but maybe next year we can talk about it a little bit and just see if there's a a more um efficient relationship since the the city of Iani covers our 40% uh with the
fire district. But I know we talked about last year >> the discussion now >> if you want. Yeah. I mean, we we both were on the same page last year when we talked about it, >> right? >> Does anyone else change on that at all? >> Well, I would have a question for Travis
on this. >> So, the $9,000 in overtime we had last year. >> Is is that for the whole event? >> That's for Jubilee, city events, everything else that generically there it's about split. It's about $4,700 for the rodeo and
>> Okay. for this for the city events for the for the Saturday event, Sunday Saturday event, um the Friday day event and the Thursday evening event would be the other
remainder of the 43 or 42 something. >> Yeah, and that was my that's my only question. The rest of the event is great, I think. Um obviously it's a great thing for our community, but it's just a question that we've talked about. Georgia, do you have anything to add to that discussion or should we talk about it more at a later date or
>> I you know it was on the cow and I think we should unfortunately talk about this at a later date. Um I appreciate all the district does. Um and I wish the district would look at all the things we do for them too. You know, we do
fundraising for the district. Um, I I would like them to see I would like them to look at a budget they liked and not, you know, try to keep their budget in line because I feel that we have the townships. This is a great example, you
know, where we're paying police um security for the rodeo, but yet we pay 40% of the budget and then the townships pay the rest. So, I feel like we're subsidizing the township when we use city money. I know it's a different
thing. It's a I know it's a nonprofit and it's really hard to get information on that nonprofit. And I'd really like if somebody called me and we had a conversation about how the nonprofit works and how you distribute your money because I know that the district is not
the only place that the rodeo association gives donations to. Uh u just to have a better conversation. So, I think that I would feel comfortable in promoting 100%
city donation on future rodeos as far as security goes and other things that we do for for the district. um because we're only one vote on that budget and there was no reason we couldn't hold that budget steady last year and it kind
of I'm then I'm looking at ways to try to pressure the board to try to keep the budget more in line and be more open with it. So, I don't as a city official, I don't have any more authority than I
have here to pressure the district into being more transparent and conscious on their budget. That's >> that's all. >> One thing I do want to add, and I brought this up more than once, I the rodeo association donates a lot of
money back to the district. >> 64,000 last year. the you got to remember the fire department district and the rodeo association are two different entities. >> Second of all, the amount of money they
put in back into the fire district, you take that $64,000 and take 40% of that. How much of that is $4,700? It's a lot more than $4,700. So, it is offsetting our cost to our taxpayers. 100% more.
You've got to keep that in mind what that rodeo association does. They do not have to give 10 cents to the fire district. They don't have to do anything of that. So bear in mind the money they don't donate helps offset that security for that rodeo.
>> Absolutely. And there's no there's no discrediting that whatsoever. It's >> just like I said, you always you're always trying to drag that in when you're talking $4,700. They put a lot more back into that fire district. That saves us a lot more than 47 >> and the township gets the same benefit
but they don't pay in they don't provide the 60% >> you we stop with townships I don't disagree with that we are benefiting way more than those townships are >> that's fair too
>> by doing this we benefit way more from it than those townships do >> I don't disagree I don't think a lot of that fire district charging is fair because for every emergency run medical
run that they run in IC as a fire district cost a heck of a lot less than when they got to run a fire call all way out in the boonies. So I I've always agreed disagreed with that fact that what we pay I have never said once was
it fair but it's the fairest way of doing it at this time unless they were charging for those fire runs. So you got it right now we're talking about rodeo association >> not fire district. So do not keep those
two in in mind. >> Fair enough. Nick, did you have any discussion or Erica? >> No. >> Anything else to add? >> Nick. >> Well, everything Steve said the most part I agree with. Like I appreciate what the firefighters do, the the rodeo association and the fire district,
>> but this is just about trying to we are in this together, the city and these six townships to keep the fire district operating. So, whatever money is being contributed in or out, I'd like to see equity in that distribution of the cost
of putting it on and then then the proceeds going out, if that's more fair in how it's mapped out, I think that's appropriate. So, it's not to say that we don't want this the event to happen or don't want to support the firefighters. Just trying to make sure that our cost
that we share that cost with the township and not just bear it. I understand that there's a a perceived benefit of hosting it, but there's also people who are upset when it's in the city that it clogs up the traffic or that people have messes to deal with. So, there is a cost of having it here as
well. It's not all benefit, but >> but there's a lot of benefits. There's there's gas, there's restaurants, there's >> definitely Yep. >> There's so many benefits. The hotel I mean, we do reap all those benefits because it's not like they're going to Bradford to fill their tank. They're not there's nothing in Athens Township. I I
still feel like >> we benefit a lot. >> We do. >> 40% more than I don't know. >> And we do a lot to benefit the district by having Jubilee Days and the parade. And I mean, we have the leadup to the rodeo and it's been that way forever.
Um, which is good. It's it's a win-win all the way around. >> Yeah. just uh >> we're not trying to penalize the fire district or the firefighters or the road association. Just cost sharing that cost of the law enforcement with the other townships.
>> Exactly. >> Well, >> I just think we profit 40%. >> It's fair argument, too. >> At least >> that's going to happen either way. >> Not necessarily. They don't have the rodeo. They don't have the road association. They're not going to be donating money back to the fire district over.
>> Like I said, you need to stop with combining >> the rodeo association and the fire district. >> They are two different entities. They cannot control the fire district. They can donate money to it, but they do not
control the fire district. So, do not >> put those two together. >> I spoke of them as two different entities. I did not conflate them. I understand they are separate entities. Uh if we could sit there and have this argument all day long. I am not changing on my standpoint. >> That's fine. So motion carried 41. Uh is
everybody content with this? >> We want to do a cow discussion or so that way when this comes up in a year it's not just going to be motioned and seconded and then it never has actually >> sure. >> Do we want to work out the numbers and because I I don't I don't understand the
uh the lack of clarity and what work. When you when you when you say you want to share the cost of this rodeo associate this the what the police department's putting into it. I want you to go to the Chamber of Commerce and ask them for that same money back as well because you're doing the same thing.
You're he is splitting that cost what it costs for the for the Chamber of Commerce versus the rodeo association. That's about $4,500 a piece. So then you need to go to the Chamber of Commerce and ask them for that $4,500 as well. The Jubilee Days is from my
understanding is exclusively within the city. >> Jubilee Days would not exist if it wasn't for the rodeo. True. >> Jubilee Days was built off of that rodeo. You have lived here long enough to know that. I remember day one when it all started.
>> So then you need to go to rodeo. You need to go to Jubilee Days which the city has nothing to do with. That is a chamber of commerce function. Would you guys be okay with coming back someday and and telling us what the rodeo
association is all about and how it works? I I do know that it has to be at least 80 or 90% all firefighters that are on that association. If if I >> 100% >> it's 100% >> on the fire department.
>> Okay. Okay. >> Was the ROI association formed years ago as a nonprofit or as an organization to be able to control the pension or to raise money for the firefighters for a pension? Is was that the main intent of
it? >> Can we >> Can we Can we have this on a a future date or if you or if you have a bunch of questions, should we have them come up or what? >> Nope. I I just wanted to get them two things clarified. Would you guys would
be okay to come talk to us sometime? >> Thanks. >> So maybe in the next committee of a whole meeting have a little bit more discussion on this item. >> For now it passed um carried 41. I'm looking forward to the event and like I said it's a great event. I just wanted to have a little more discussion on that before we voted on it um because it
people are asking questions about it and I think it's important to be transparent. All right. So that is approved and we will move on to Railroad >> item K2 407 Railroad Avenue sanitary sewer service repair. Mr. Cook.
>> Thank you, Mr. Mayor, members of Council. So, this item um was a placeholder until about 12:30 when I finally got those final numbers from the contractor. Uh so we do have their actual unit prices that they, you know,
needed uh for the different tasks that we had to do to add the intersection reconstruction of Palamino and Railroad and then reconstructing that sewer service to that manhole and and changing that drop. We were missing a few pay items, so we had to get those. They got
them to me and they came out almost exactly what I brought to you guys last time as estimates. Um, right now the the cost for that sewer service that would go to the resident is $8,388.72 cents. We had told her it was going to
be about 8,500. Um, and then the cost for the city to do the intersection in that valley gutter is at $27,154.75. So, pretty much the numbers we had talked about, but I had to put that placeholder on here so we could at least know that we can keep that ball rolling
and let that resident know if we are moving forward, you know, what she would be committing to. Thank you for the update. Um, and I did briefly talk to her uh yesterday and she was okay with Jason's original estimate. So, the fact this came in underneath budget is is a great a great thing. Um,
so how does that work? Uh, does she need to sign a contract beforehand or does she just build afterwards or how does that process work on something like that, Jason? >> So, my understanding was the discussion was she'd be build and then if you know >> there was a problem with the payment that it would turn into an assessed
thing onto her her taxes, but um that piece I guess that's the only understanding I know. So, I don't know if there's any actual agreement that was going to have to get signed or not. >> Yeah, just kind of piggy backing off of what Jason said there. be treated just like any other sort of city related
thing like weed removal or similar to the tree removal that we just did where it'll be invoiced to the resident and then if it is not paid by October, we'll start the certification process for it to go to property taxes. >> Okay. Well, that sounds great. I think
it's a good solution to a a long 10-year problem with this property. So I'm happy that we can come up with the solution that makes total sense with the rest of our pavement management project and the fact that section needed repairs anyways is it was perfect way to kill two birds with one stone. >> So So just to wrap that up then because
I didn't have the numbers I couldn't make like the change order resolution for you guys to approve because I didn't have anything to put in there. So I'll probably be making that change order to adopt these new pay items uh to make part of our contract with our contractor for Railroad Avenue and just put that on
the next meeting. >> Okay. So, you don't need a motion at this point or do you want one still? >> No, I I mean I think that's enough direction because it'll basically just be a change order consent thing next meeting. >> Sounds good. >> So, she's aware of that that cost that she's going to occur. Yes. And she's
going to figure out how to finance it or whatever. Okay. >> Is anybody opposed to that up here? >> No, I'm not opposed to it whatsoever. I if if if it proceeds to get this project going sooner, I wouldn't be opposed to voting on it and allowing it to proceed. I
mean, Jason's always been pretty straightforward on that. >> I agree. Would a would a vote help to move it forward with based on the numbers that you just provided? >> Uh I mean, I don't know on the the technicality side, but I'll need to have a signed change order from the the contractor. >> Okay. So I mean whether
>> I mean at this point it would just if he gets a signed change order all that's doing is it's not putting this on another council meeting. It would just be a matter of him presenting that signed change order. We wouldn't have to vote on it a second time >> or >> well let's just take a motion on it and see he can see what he can do.
>> I make a motion to approve and proceed. >> Second >> motion by Lundine, second by Peterson. All in favor say I. >> Any opposed? >> Motion carries 5-0. Thank you Jason. I think she's going to be very thrilled and it's a great way to take care of that issue.
All right, we'll move on to item K4, resolution to consider approving. >> Uh, yeah. Item K3, resolution to consider awarding the quote for the South Passage Railroad crossing improvements. Good catch, Steve. >> All right. Thank you, Mr. Mayor, members of council. So, uh, we went out for
quotes to get that traffic control and street patching costs, uh, completed to deal with the railroad planking replacement that the railroads, you know, going to be doing. Uh, two updates. One, the railroad contacted us saying they want to do it the week of
June 1st. And so, our timing couldn't be better on we just got our quotes in. Um, we received three quotes. Uh the low quote was from Aztec uh in the amount of $25,441.36 uh which uh the original estimate that I
brought you guys before we chose to go out for quotes instead of going after using state aid funds was I'd estimated that it'd be 28,500 if we didn't use state aid funds. So it's 3,000 less than we were kind of hoping for. Uh so at
this point I'm recommending awarding to Aztec and they've already acknowledged that June 1, you know, week whatever from now is going to work for them to be able to get that traffic control going and and work with the railroad. So um it's I guess good timing to get this
thing approved and moving forward. >> I don't know if any of you guys drive over there, but I'm going to tell you right now that plank that they're referring to jumps six inches when a car goes over it. I mean, I literally stop if I'm going westbound, I stop and basically drive off the road because
that plank hops. >> Yep. >> It's bad. >> It's due. So, I'm happy we're hitting it and prepared. >> I make a motion to approve Aztec's quote and move forward. >> I'll second. >> Motion by Lundine, second by Heman. All
in favor say I. I. Any opposed? >> Motion carries 5-0. Next resolution to consider approving the addition of my p my pay and my time with Cassell. Mr. Soulberg. >> Good evening, Mayor and members of council. So, bringing this back before you, we had discussions about this
earlier in the year about adding these two different pieces to our current ERP software to better track our time and make some more efficiencies with our payroll process. So just bringing it back to you with those solidified numbers and then just letting you guys
kind of have discussions on whether you would like to see us move forward with this and then the proceeding budget amendment that would go with that. So if there's any questions, please let me know. >> Last time you had said you were looking into if there was anything that was missed. Was there anything missed in that? >> No, there's with our current software,
they were purchased by a different parent company a couple years ago. So depending which software you were coming from, there was another piece that was necessary. That's not the case with ours because ours is already integrated in a different way. So it was just a question with the webinar that came up that it was the first time I was hearing it, but
talked with our account manager and he said, "Nope, we're already good to go and we would just need these two pieces to be able to do the full pair." >> Our investment is $3,000, $2,800 or something. >> Yep. That's the setup fee and then an annual fee of $4,200.
I think it's going to be worth their time. I think it's going to take care of a lot of how do I say it's going to keep the employees more honest. If they don't clock in, they don't get paid. I mean, you know, in the case of
public works, you know, he's going to have to go in and adjust adjust it adjust it for him. But if that's the case, that person keeps doing that, sooner or later he's not going to get paid. I I payroll software. Payroll companies
aren't cheap no matter what you do. >> And I don't think this is that bad of investment. >> I'm okay with it. We're freeing up staff time. We're not hiring new staff. I'm good with it. >> Nick, Erica,
>> the cost to me seems high. I don't I don't understand how that all drives, but I had done payroll. It wasn't that count. I don't know. I I don't understand the cost of benefit. >> Okay, Erica, >> I think it takes a lot of time for you
guys to get all of your stuff jing every single week and every single pay period. Um, I did think it was a lot, but I also think there's a lot of hours dedicated to it and it it has to come out we I feel like we come out ahead. I I guess I
don't know what you get paid and I could probably find I don't know if I can find it or not, but I mean, if all of you guys are running around trying to get hours and papers and all that stuff and and if you could eliminate that, um, I would hope that you could get better at your jobs or have more time to do things
that we're asking you to do. >> Yeah. Yep. And I do think it'll free up staff time for our department heads along with the accounting department just to let us kind of get to more of those projects. It's also going to let us kind of track things a little closer and maybe get better notes kind of on
activities and stuff like that too versus now it's you're kind of at the mercy of what your employee remembers to do and what notes they kind of give you versus when it's on in one timekeeping software. they can add that note every day when they're clocking in and out of here's a task that we had to spend more
time on, here's a specific thing that they may work on. I know Josh has his guys kind of report back to him on some of that stuff, but just can be another kind of way that electronically it's stored that you can kind of go and look back in that history for things that may have caused overtime or may have taken
more time than would have originally been anticipated to. So, I think we'll see some other benefits, too, with just being able to more accurately know kind of where our time is being spent, too. >> Is that online training, is that open for all employees that are using it or just a finance director? Is that a per
per individual cost or is that total cost >> um for the setup fee? >> No, for the online training for my pay online workflow. >> Yep. So that will be specifically the finance staff and
likely the department heads will be a part of that online training with everything consolid does. They will also record that training so it'll be available for each of the departments and then I'll kind of leave it up to the department heads whether they want to just share that video or whether they think it'll be better to just work with their staff on getting them kind of up
to date with the functionality and all that. >> Okay. And then as far as the annual platform fees, is there anything in this contractually that locks in that price for a certain amount of time? I would hate to, you know, pay 28.50 this year for implementation. And if it's 4,200 in annual platform fee now, but what
happens if they increase the price to 8,000 or $10,000? I don't I would hope they wouldn't do that sort of thing, but is there any contractual language? >> There's no contractual language there. Cassell's been pretty steady in giving us pretty reasonable increases to that. So assuming it kind of follows the
pattern that we see with our other modules, I don't expect any significant increases. At the end of the day, Excel knows that they have a lot of competitors out there and so if they jack up prices, it's just something that potentially would make us look elsewhere. So they're they're very
conscientious of that. And this $4,200 a year fee is actually down from what I presented, I believe, back in December, too. So, they see the value in kind of getting us on boarded and wanting to keep us happy and moving forward as a client of theirs.
>> Okay. You said you'd see you see small increases. Um, would you say that matches inflation? Three to five% per year type of thing. Is that pretty typical? >> 100 bucks is kind of standard for that. So, I'd imagine like a $100 increase for each module in a year is probably likely
what we would see. It's kind of what we've seen in the past for those. Could we ask them to do like a three-year price lock? >> Yeah, I can definitely ask them to. >> I would be on board with you with that. I I kind of agree with that. I mean, if they're going to lock it in,
>> they'll make it up in three years. They'll they'll jack it to make that difference, but at least for three years, we're not going to get a price increase. Right. >> If if >> I will motion to accept this as long as they sign a three-year contract.
>> Okay. Yeah. So, I will reach out and make sure that that's something that they're able to do relating to those two modules. But, >> and do you have enough things for this person to I mean, you're talking 10 hours a week, >> every other week. >> Every >> with payroll processing every two weeks.
But, yeah, we definitely do. We have some things in the accounting and finance department that we would like to be able to get to either more timely or just other projects that have kind of sat for a while. So that'll free up some time either for Pam to be able to take on those projects or free up some time
for me to be able to get to some more of that stuff. >> With the timekeeping component, would that be mobile or would that be a place to work or how would that be done? >> It'll be uh they have a mobile app and they also have a web- based feature there. So can work either way. It can
either be on employees phones or can just be on a computer or desktop like at public works or at the liquor store. So, we'll kind of work through how we would like that to see and kind of what people are looking forward to. >> Does that mobile app have a location service? >> Yes.
>> Yes. Okay. >> Okay. There was a motion on the floor by Lundine. Is there a second? >> Second. >> Motion by Lundine, second by Peterson. All in favor say I. >> I. Any opposed? >> Motion carries 5-0. Thank you for your work on that one, Nick.
that passes uh contractual with a three-year hopeful uh contract on that. >> Okay, sounds good. And if they don't agree to that, you would come back to us. >> Yep. I'll come back to you guys and let you know if they have a planned increase
or anything for that for what 27 and 28 would be. >> Okay. Okay. Or or or even even if they were to say it's 4,200 this year and it's 4250 the next year. Even something that's holding them to a number.
>> Yeah. Come back with that number. I would like to >> Okay. >> make sure we can negotiate >> or in information like that. Uh item K5, uh banking services discussion and possible action. >> All right. Good evening, mayor and
members of council. So, just kind of a discussion point, our banking services are up June 30th of 2026. Uh, last year we went out, >> thanks for coming in, guys. >> Went out for RFPs and received a lot of
proposals from different banks for kind of what they had to offer. with our regular practice. We've extended those banking services for three years, but just with the circumstances, we just did a one-year approval to be able to let me kind of get a better understanding of what our banking services looked like
and what our other options were that were out there. So, Falcon already came back with a proposal to extend after June 30th of 2026. They increased their interest that they're going to pay across our accounts by 33%.
and then kept everything else kind of the same as far as like fees that we currently pay for banking services and all that kind of stayed steady. So the kind of discussion to have there is my recommendation is to extend our banking services an additional two years with
Falcon to kind of match up with that original RFP that we put out there. But also just bringing it up that we can go out there for additional proposals if you guys would like to see that. But I compared what we received
currently from Falcon versus what we saw last year and it's just the market hasn't changed very much and their current offer is just very competitive and I think that we really appreciate the relationship that we have with Falcon and they provide very good
service for us. So I just don't see a big benefit in switching or kind of going out there at this time. >> Sure. Yeah. Thank you for doing the work on that. And I know last year we talked about trying to maximize uh we have a substantial amount of money in the in the banks that we use and trying to leverage that to get a better rate um
for the city so that we have more interest income coming in which means less less tax burden. Uh we played a little hard ball and I think it it works out to our advantage in this case. Uh a.33% increase in one year. Would you say that's roughly around 30 roughly
around $30,000 extra interest income for one year? Yeah, it'll be right around $25,000 depending where we kind of keep that bank balance. >> Sure. So, that's that's a great thing that we were able to, you know, like I said, play a little hard ball and get get competitive numbers. Um, so I
appreciate the work on that. I I I haven't heard any complaints um from you guys about Falcons. So, I'm I'm good with what we have. >> I have a question. >> Yep. So, it's raced um the rates are based on prime
plus a third we're getting. >> No. >> Uh it's prime. >> I mean, as far as the rates we're getting, does it adjust with the prime rate, whatever that rate may be right now? >> Yes. So, I believe they use the effective federal fund rate >> correct
>> for that. And so they're going from they took off 63% prior to determine our interest rate. Going forward, they're only going to take off.3% of that. Okay. >> Across all of our accounts that we hold with them. So that's where that increase
in interest should come in each month, too. And then they set a floor there of 0.25%. Obviously with where interest rates are, we're not hitting that floor, but still just something nice to have. If we do have a scenario where interest rates drop quickly, we're still going to have some sort of interest bearing on
those accounts, too. >> What is the EFR right now? >> Uh, I believe it's like 3.66, I believe, when I was looking last week. So changes daily, but it generally fluctuates pretty smallly because it's going to
kind of follow the federal fund rates for that which don't necessarily have changes on a dayto-day >> and that that money is pretty much all liquid in this account. Correct. So we're getting a I mean 4% rate essentially in a totally liquid state is
pretty much unheard of. >> Yeah. And just kind of with how our cash flows work as a city, we have our big distributions a couple times a year. And other than that, we're kind of working off of that money that we receive from our tax settlements. So, we do have to keep a good amount of cash liquid when
we do have these big road projects and everything kind of going on. So, it is good that we're keeping that cash liquid, but we're also getting a pretty competitive rate on that money, too. >> George, sorry. Go ahead. Just to clarify, so what Luke said is if
we would have had this rate last week, we would have been real close to 4% on our money. >> We would have been at 3.3% because we would had that 3.66% minus.3. >> Okay.
>> Yep. >> Which are money markets that we hold with our investment accounts, which are also liquid funds. We have one that was at 3.25 25 last month and then we had another one that was around 3.5. So kind of falling right in between our other
money market options that are currently available to us too. >> Get that it's liquid, but it doesn't seem that great compared to CPI or inflation. But >> I wish we could find a better rate. I mean, you could we could go out for more
bids if you if you'd like to see if we do get a better rate anywhere, >> but I don't think that's going to change anything. I'd be okay with this, but I'd like to hold it to a year again if that's possible. >> Okay. >> Do you know of anything that is that much higher above those or are they all
in the I assume they're all in the same ballpark within the business of money? >> They're all pretty similar and probably roughly that 3.3 to that 3.6% because that's just kind of where they fall. They're all kind of looking at the same metrics at the end of the day,
>> right? And last year we talked about this and we wanted to stay where we were, but the Falcons rate was a little lower. So then we we went out for bids and try to make the process more competitive to hope that they would boost the rate for us. So we would be at least definitely not below anybody else and we keep the convenience of having
the same system that we have in place and we know it works and you know everything's kosher. But I don't I don't mind a one-year deal again. >> Yeah. >> I I personally rather go for the two years because we don't know what's going to happen in another year. It could turn totally the opposite and we could lose.
It could cost us. >> It all goes on market rate. So if the market rate goes down, they're not locked in anyways. >> I don't know. I think the longer we keep term terms with people longer terms, we actually have a better working
relationship with those companies. If you keep trying to kick it down the street every year every every year, sooner or later they're going to kick you down the street and say, "I'm done playing this game." And then you're forced you're forced hands and then it's going to cost us more money because we're going to have to do other changes. >> They're not going to do that. They're
not going to turn away our our investment in their bank. $10 million plus like they're >> you already talk you're already telling them that you're only going to give them another year. >> Well, just to reexamine in a year you see if the rates are still competitive. >> What happens if that rate changes and it
drops? >> Isn't that the banking industry changes so much lately? It's just, you know, >> it can go the opposite way that would hurt us more. And this could be a possible I tell you philosophy. If you can buy, if you know you're getting something at a good deal, you buy it
now. If it drops more, but what happens if it doubles? I still come out ahead. I'm comfortable at this position. I'd rather see it at that point. For example, airline tickets, flight to Alaska, 800. You go
online, you know it's going to be about 800 bucks roughly. All of a sudden, you see it online for tomorrow, it drops down to 5.40. That's a risk you're willing to take, but you're still saving your time between that 800 and that 640. That's just the
way I look at it. >> And just piggybacking off what Steve says, they do do a very good job with not having much for fees really at all associated with our accounts. And with what we saw in our RFP, not all of the banks apply that rate to our savings,
our checking, and our ICS account. So, we do have that advantage there where they're going to pay that same rate no matter where that we have to do to maximize that interest, too. >> Sounds good. Was there >> budget friendly too going two years? I guess
>> I think it shows like just a dedication and it is a building. I mean, they are a local bank and >> maybe you guys only went out to other local banks. I wasn't >> part of this. >> No, the the best ones were the local ones. >> Yeah. >> And we prefer local so it's in your
community so you can talk to them also. >> I I make a motion to sign it to your country contract. >> Motion on the floor. Is there a second? >> I can motion it. Yeah, I motion. >> Okay. Motion from Lundine, second from Zadan. All in favor of the two-year
contract say I. >> I. >> I. >> All opposed. >> I. >> Motion carries. 41. All right. Uh, next we have the consent agenda. Uh, is there anything that anybody would like to talk about in
there? I do have one item. >> L2. >> L2. Anybody else have anything else? All right, Nick, did you want to take L2 or do you want me to ask or >> if Mr. Cook could provide an update on it? It's just people are always asking
about the road projects and more details is better. >> Sure. >> Sure. Um, so this is actually kind of two separate items. Um, the first one is the change order three. We basically came across a few issues as we've kind
of done construction this spring. Um there are loop detectors on the signal at 65 and Heritage that just weren't acknowledged by the county or the state or myself uh during that change order that we put together at that kind of
last minute when we were awarding the the additional work last year. Um but when we switched from doing a milling overlay to fully ripping out the pavement, we took out the loop detectors with it. Uh so we had to get those put back. Um, also the uh Kexus Energy uh
requires that the three kind of additional infill lights that we want to do that weren't part of the roundabout lighting had to be done by them and paid through us to them to have our contract with the city uh for servicing those and
to pay for the electrical supply and whatnot. So those had to get removed from the contract. Um, and so that first change order there is is kind of just the the summary of those changes that had to happen to the contract uh to just get everything square to date. Um, I
guess that's that summary. I guess any questions on on that >> and that's and those changes those will be paid for through the LRIP or through the grant. >> Yep. Yeah, they're eligible items. Um, right now, uh, we're looking like we're trending under the total budget that we
had previously already approved. This is just making those pay items part of the contract, you know, that weren't existing pay items. And then I was just acknowledging the items that got removed from the contract. Um, right now we're actually working on the west leg of the intersection. Uh we're actually
evaluating if the sand is going to be an acceptable uh gradation underneath the the current reclaimed pavement that we just ground up here uh today. Uh and uh if that comes to be, we might be able to remove a another good chunk of cost of
having to remove it all and then put it back, which not only will save some money on the contract, but also save some time for how long this is going to be closed. Uh right now we're looking at, you know, a three and a half week kind of closure. And if that happens, we can hopefully get that down to three
only weeks, maybe even shy of that. So tomorrow we're going to find out the exact limits of what we're going to be able to avoid. But uh for for impacts and kind of an update on the construction project, uh things are going right on track and we're hoping to
to even shorten how long this closure is going for impacting residents and businesses. >> Sure. And that that uh change order number three does include uh additional pedestrian lighting on the south side of Heritage Boulevard between the stoplight and credit union drive.
>> So So the additional lighting, those two lights is going to just be through our lighting infill uh program. >> Okay. So that's not covered in the >> No. >> Okay. So, so the I guess for the council, um, so because that had to get pulled out,
we've reworked with Kexus because we had to work with them where the lights actually can go and what works with their lighting power supply and layout. And so it's been determined to go with two lights on the south side. So essentially the eastbound lane side um
to go in and that will just be managed actually through Josh and and our lighting infill program and that budget all covers it and it was on our lightning infill schedule anyway. So it more or less just works out as originally planned. It's just can't be
through our contract. >> Okay. It can't be even though it's on that same stretch of road, >> right? >> Okay. Is there a some sort of statute that says that or just the grant process or what's what's the >> So, because we have to pay Kexus to do Kexus work through our contract as the
city, it's not something we can sublet through our general contractor. And that's why we have to basically pull it out because to really to have it in the contract, we'd have to pay our contractor to pay them, but we need to have the contract with Kexus and they
wouldn't be a sub to our general contractor. >> Okay. Thank you for the elaboration on that. Uh, and then also I had a couple questions. Number one, uh, change order number one, engineering services for the Heritage Boulevard intersection improvement project. I cannot wrap my
head around what's going on there. So, it says that the city's paying for the 1/3 2/3 split, but this doesn't have is it just because it's connected to the roundabout project even though we don't have a 2/3 ones
split on this section of heritage that's being replaced because we don't have it's not like the roundabout where you have other legs necessarily. Okay. So, I guess I'm confused on the layout there >> and if you can explain more of that and how that affects our budget if that's covered by the the state funding or what
the heck's going on because it's really confusing. >> Sure. Sure. So, uh again, you know, we ran that change order last year kind of as quickly as we could so we could get as maximized LRIP funds as we could. >> Correct. >> Um in that change order is to replace
all the curb and all the walk that we're doing right now from the roundabout west. along with that we fully redid the pavement to the east. But but uh this section to the west um was going to be in the 2028 county project, but we're
we're able to pull that in and get that piece done with this project to get LRIP funds to cover it. And our benefit as the city on this piece is the cost sharing policy that the county has is that we would be paying for the sidewalk and half of the curb cost.
>> Ah, okay. >> And so the city managing to have all this curb and sidewalk replaced under this contract and not in the 2028 contract that isn't going to be covered by Elbert funds and whatnot, we're basically avoiding having to pay
approximately 70 to $100,000 in concrete work that would have been assigned to us in the 2028 project. But because we're getting it done, the 2028 project only has to go to the tracks instead of all the way to the roundabout. So the city's benefit is we didn't have to have take
on that cost share. And in this case, what the rest of all this language is basically saying is I mean I hope it's just understood if there's $500,000 worth of work, there's engineering services, survey services, staking services, all the things that go
with it. Um at the time we you know before we even started and we were thinking let's see how much we can get into the current agreed upon budget and we managed to get all the surveying too the design the change order through
state aid through mind and got it all approved and got it all through everything. Um but now we basically ran out of budget and we're only down to the last month and a half of of this
change order work. And so that added cost is now that we kind of have a defined amount of time that they are going to take to finish. And then we have our close out, you know, asbuilts we'll have to do and things. But the remaining cost that's estimated that is
all that we would need is is the 32,783. Um, which turns into only a 6 and a half% cost of a $500,000 change order. So, I guess I was pretty proud of my staff and everybody for managing to squeeze this as tight as we could. Um,
and then at that 2/3, one third, you know, that'd be like what a 10 or $11,000 cost to the city that could have been the $100,000 in 2028 plus the engineering services. So, you know, came
out really good in my opinion. Um but this is just to kind of square the the cost up, you know, to get through the rest of this project and get it done. Um county has already seen both this change order three and this engineering services approved that at their board
meeting this morning. Uh so they're taking that twothirds cost of this services anyway and they've already approved that. You know, I think we have a pretty low number to go with it to be honest. >> Okay. And is any of that 11,000 is that
covered by the grant or is that part of our local match that we expected to pay the 167,000 or whatever it was? >> So, so the LRIP only covers construction. That's all it ever has been. >> Okay. >> Um, so the engineering services would be local match. Um, it is state aid
eligible and so we could go look and see if we're going to be able to square up some of that. >> Okay. with our like final pay request because right now we've kind of asked for as much state aid funds as we're allowed until the project closed out. But um in general I think our total
expected budget is pretty much going to be including that number. Um certainly we're so much less than our budgeted amount of half a million back before we got all this funding, but I think we're still coming out pretty much on I I mean maybe I can
defer to Nick there, but >> Okay. And you said you can ask for the state aid uh to get to get the state aid frontloaded for that potentially because it is a state aid route. So that could be something that I would I would like to see that happen. >> Right. And that's where I was trying to reference that, you know, state aid can
allow up to 25% in these engineering services and we're only actually asking for 6 and a half%. >> Yep. >> Um and so it's going to come down to the how much has been requested and which route is which state aid funded thing and and we can we can see how much we
can still manage to get covered. But so far we've got almost everything covered and you know it'll be in that last pay request. We'll have to see how much we can try and squeeze in there. >> Okay. Sounds good. Any other questions or concerns on that item or any of the
other items in the consent agenda? >> Make a motion to approve consent agenda. >> Second. >> Motion by Lundine, second by Peterson. All in favor say I. I. >> Any opposed? >> Motion carries. 5-0. Any other communications or questions from staff or councel?
>> Motion to adjurnn. >> Second. >> Motion adjourned by Lundine. Second by Peterson. All in favor say I. >> I. >> Any opposed? Motion carries 5-0 and we will continue committee of a whole in want to say five minutes. >> Thank you for coming in, Walter.
I'll entertain a motion to come out of recess. >> Motion to come out of recess. Resume committee of the whole. >> Second. >> Motion by Peterson, second by Lendine to come out of recess and continue committee of the whole. All in favor say I. I. Any opposed? Motion carries 5-0. So we will continue with the E5 park advertising and sponsorship policy. Uh,
so we left it at um the message standards we were talking about. Um, so we're I think we just agreed that a QR code and a phone number is not considered part of that message standard to be not allowed. Is that kind of how we left that?
>> I mean, I have that written down as to be allowed. >> Okay, sounds good. And then I'll move on to um the uh the chart here. We're working still on the pricing and the sizing for that. Um, so we're gonna uh >> I just literally threw some
>> Right. Right. right. Yep. Yep. So I'll come back with more information for that. Um, we're still working on that and we're actually reaching out to some other cities that have done uh banner advertising like this. So we're trying to get uh the best possible plan right off the front so we don't have to change
it a bunch of times hopefully. Uh so I'll come back with that information. And then I have a job for all of you. Uh number seven, we have a few examples here of things where we could put signage or advertising. Like if a company wants to advertise in the softball fields, which you know, we have
the one field by uh the elementary school um or the archery range or the skate park or anything like that. Um they can kind of come up where we can talk about, you know, unique ideas. But I have a job for all of you and that is to try and think of other unique ways that we could uh incorporate advertising
that doesn't seem invasive. It's more of like a sponsorship thing. Like say if a a chiropractor wants to advertise on a slide or like you know anything like that where they could see a value or a chiropractor advertising that the skatepark is an even better example because you know they might have some
customers there type of thing and it kind of fits the theme. Um, so if you guys have any ideas, other ideas that I've come up with, um, like the basketball backboards, you know, if say if DW companies wants to sponsor a basketball court and they get their logo on the basketball hoops or just stuff
like that where it's not intrusive, but it's, you know, it's a good way to sort of bring some funds in for maintenance of the parks, which is kind of the whole goal of this um, committee is to bring in funds for maintenance and also to get people excited about new amenities coming to town. Um, and I've talked to
or worked with Aaron Zidon a lot on this as well as the rest of our our board. So, if you guys think of any unique ideas, please get back to me on that and uh we can kind of go through that as a as a committee. Um, and also I wanted to talk about and I don't know how you guys feel about
something like this, but some sort of flexible option. So, say if there's a business that has a specific idea, uh, like I already had a business reach out and say they want to advertise their business on like a a skate park um, amenity that says like their name of
their business and that's like a ridable feature. Um, that's something that like all businesses are might have a a different way. Um, so I'd like to have in here something about flexibility and like the um I guess the ability for businesses to come to us with ideas if
they have a specific way to get involved. I don't know how you guys feel about something like that like that. >> That's all great ideas. The only thing I don't I disagree with you get number eight, >> your memorial picnic table, memorial bench, and memorial tree. I don't think
you need to put a put a time limit on those. >> Sure. Yeah. Okay. >> I would I would look at, you know, what's the cost of a memorial picnic table? >> It's not it's not a time limit on them. It's just we're guaranteeing that we will maintain that bench for 10 years. >> Well, like the tree like the tree
though. I mean, >> the reason why we do that is because sometimes we've had to replace trees multiple times. And maybe Mr. Becker, so glad you stayed. You could >> that's fine. I understand that. But to me, when if if I wanted to get a
memorial bench for somebody, whatever that cost of that bench is, purchasing that bench and having it. So, you go up to metal coatings and they make a lot of these benches. They're making a lot of the uh bicycle racks, that kind of thing,
garbage cans. for them to build that bench and put what say my family name on it. I just don't, you know, that's meant to be there forever.
That's just the way I see it. I know we've had um park amenities donated in the past. Similarly, um maybe a small gazebo thing that has been a lot of work to maintain over
time. And so putting a cap on it like this is what we've this is what it it was already in our um ordinance. So you guys can change it to whatever you feel, but this is what um was already in our
current memorial ordinance. I'm just trying to condense them to one policy. >> So, it's more of a useful life type expectancy. And I think it's realistic to have that on there. >> I think so, too. Agree. >> Yeah. Because if you're you're not expecting to a a picnic bench to last 50 years, you know, and we have this
sometimes come up with the county parks, too, like, you know, you have to replace it now. Does the family want to donate to replace it? I think that's pretty well expected when you make a donation. I don't think it's unreasonable. Um, but I can bring it up in our group. Um, so all these things I guess we could we should probably put a term on most of
the items, you know. >> Do you put a guaranteed term? Do you put 10 years or until item is no longer safe or repable or >> I I think this way we're guaranteeing that we will make sure that if something
happens to it, we will maintain it for 10 years. >> Um, >> does that ever come back to bite us? That's that's a little bit of >> Yeah, because 10 years is like I'm thinking like bench in seven years if it looks pretty. >> I think before it used to be 20 years
ago that was a long time. >> Sounds like >> Yeah, just something like that. matter if someone like I because we've had issues when we talk about Legacy Park like some of those benches and chairs or picnic tables have been vandalized and if that was the case
10 years is a long time to fix a vandalized table or bench. >> Do we even have to have guarantee term? Is that what you're you did you want it on there longer? I mean, if you think about it, when you if you make a donation for something, do you necessarily expect that it's going to be
guaranteed to be there for a certain >> Yes. Some people bench. I expect it to be there for a long time. >> I'm spending $1,500 on a bench in honor of my grandma and somebody vandalizes it in six months. >> I'm going to be pretty upset that it wasn't replaced. >> So, I think you need to have some time
frame. >> Okay. >> 10's probably not unreasonable. I guess I can't disagree with that, but I mean I think another thing to look at for something is name on paper stones.
>> Sure. Okay. >> Like the like the Hollywood stars. >> Well, I'll tell you what. You go I think down state fairgrounds they have they have the stones or pavers with names on it. >> Yeah. >> Like this person contributed to this part >> all over the place down there. Another
thing I've seen is pickets on fences engraved like on maintenance-free fences. So like families names there's a park in Lichfield that's pretty amazing that they did just engrave. >> Yeah. But that's >> every kid had their their name because
their f they were so excited to go and play in that park because they would find their name on one of the pickets which I thought was cool. >> Can you present some photos of that to like park and wreck or council and >> Yeah, I'll send it to you. Thanks. Yeah, cuz I have >> Yeah, those that's good ideas.
>> Made yourself more work. >> Any any sort of ideas like that are are good. >> Yeah. Yeah. So, if anybody has more of that in the future, uh we're pretty flexible and I think it's I think it's going to come down to like how do people want to be involved and hopefully we can really hit the ground running with this.
Um so, if you go to page 56, item number 10, the first um thing on there, this is just something that we had a brief discussion on. Um, and I don't know how we are exactly going to handle it yet, but it's something for you guys to consider. Uh, it says the city of Icy will maintain advertising signage for a
period of up to one year. Um, provided the condition of the item remains consistent with city standards. Now, this kind of goes back to the same discussion as a memorial picnic. This is more so label or for like u we were thinking for like banners. Um, so that's something just to consider. I don't
know. I will let you know that just as you're doing this that sometimes banners are not more affordable than signs >> and signs sometimes last a lot longer. So then if you do signs >> cuz banners wear easier they you know
fray but signs can last longer and often times there like our signs that we put in that park for the project was not more than some of our banners that we we buy. So >> I wouldn't want >> Yeah, we'll price that out. >> I don't know if some banners would even last a year. So, if we're going to have to replace them,
>> I would I would >> That was my concern. >> Okay. And um we'll come back we'll come back with more information on that. We were just saying banners because that's kind of where we started with. We haven't really looked in the specifics yet or pricing. We're still a little
rough in this process. Um so, that was I think there it's a good start of a draft. And if anybody has any other ideas or things to add to this, um I don't know if anybody has any ideas now. The city make its own street signs.
>> No, we buy them from like EFA or MR sign or something like that. We get a price between the two and whoever's cheaper for that project. There's online companies that actually make street signs and you can have your name put on
the street sign and it's the same as the sign that the city buys because I bought my wife some for Christmas one year. >> Make them back in the day. >> You did? >> Okay, cool. Any other ideas based on this draft or
things that you guys saw that were concerning? >> My only concern is I don't want to turn our entire city into an advertising >> 100%. Yep. You got to be thoughtful with it. >> I don't know. You pushed me a little too far on the basketball hoop idea. I was like, whoa, that's just a lot. >> We got to pay for this stuff, though.
So, right now, I'll give you some background. The state, we don't have any way to maintain our parks other than taxpayer levy. And if we continue to add to our parks with the park reserve fund, we have forever we have to maintain that park. So, say if we have, you know, 12
parks and each one is valued at a million dollar. Well, that's $12 million and it's advertised over 20 years. you're having to come up with, you know, half a million dollars of maintenance or or money to replace those items and where does it come from? So, we have to figure out a way to, you know, kind of get the community invested and say if a
if a company wants to agree to, you know, repair replace the tar, the asphalt on a basketball hoop in exchange for something like that, that's something you can't overlook. You know, it's just you have to we have to be able to balance this because there's people in our community that cannot afford to
pay extra taxes for maintaining parks that they don't use. you know, like especially the elderly people or the people on lower income. We cannot continue to tax people to death where they can't afford to even live here for something they don't use. You know, it's just a that's kind of the thing. But we obviously we're working as a group to
think of like things that make sense. You know, Aeron's involved and we have the pickle ball people involved and we're we're looking at like, you know, sponsor pickle ball court. So, you'll have your logo on the pickle ball court door to go in. It's just and these are pretty common in other places, too. um the skatepark one, that one's pretty
common to see that type of advertising there. You know, we're flexible on all of it. So, I don't think it's necessarily going to be a free-for-all. And I don't think we're actually going to get total, you know, advertising everywhere. >> No, >> but if we do, that's a huge benefit to our community.
>> I would say that for grant purposes, you would not be allowed to have advertising everywhere in many cases for like the state and federal grant dollars. >> Sure. just because that's against like what they're trying to do. So >> that was my idea of when you brought up
the QR codes that we get a 50/50 split that someone went back in to maintain other parks >> where that stuff, you know, 50% goes towards that Yep. >> amenity because you I don't care. You're going to have to maintain that somehow
somewhere else even though that donation was made. And that was that was another discussion and we've this was that was something we talked about and now our attorney has said we cannot do that. >> According to state statute it's considered solicitation of funds for parks which we're not allowed to do.
>> So we're trying to figure out a way to do that whether it's through a nonprofit. There's there's certain cutouts and I'm I've been waiting to hear back from the attorney on that because that was that's a great way to get some to get some revenue coming in without advertising. So I'm really hoping we can figure out an avenue for that. Um, and I haven't heard back from
the attorney, but there's I feel like there's always a way, you know, and I asked another attorney and he just said, "Why don't you just levy for it?" Yeah, we could levy for it, but can our community afford to consider continue to pay, you know, a half a million dollars a year of depreciation and put that away
for parks. We have one of the biggest park systems in the state, you know, eight times the average acreage of a city of a city. And eventually, it's going to come time where we're going to have to replace or maintain all these items. And eventually you're going to have to you have to tax levy for it. So
there's got to be a creative way and that's you know we do that well up here this group get creative. So if anybody has creative ideas after you read the statute um maybe Stephanie or Josie could send out that statute and we could see if there's uh creative thinking
behind that that can make it happen. >> I appreciate your input on that. And you're right. It it's amazing how many people just say just love you for it because it's not their money. I mean, I like our approach where we we try to keep we try anyway, think outside the box, do what we can
>> um and put what's only necessary under the levy, but do we want to ask staff to do more research, maybe get more photos of some of these ideas that we're thinking? >> So, we're doing that as a group. >> So, our group, one of our goals this
this last meeting was to come up with examples. So, our our ultimate vision is to come up with a flyer or a promotional thing that we can go to business and say, "Hey, here's some ideas of what other communities are doing or what we want to see happen to get our our businesses involved with our parks to
maintain our parks." Um, so we're going to work on some graphics and all that will be presented to city council. Um, we really had to start with this this um draft policy first. Um, but we're working on that and hopefully by, you know, in a couple weeks we'll have more examples. You know,
>> sounds great. >> And I >> this policy will basically allow them and give them a framework to work under for us for us to be able to accept the funds. >> Correct. And then we we'd come before city council kind of like I'm doing right now and and we would just talk
about, you know, this is what we're doing and and just kind of get the city blessing on it in a sense and have it in our policy and then everybody comes makes donations to the city. Um it's direct to the city. That's but we have to have it in policy to do that. So, it's a lot of moving parts. Um, but I think it's good. And if you look at, you
know, George, you talked about what we're doing to get creative. If you look at us compared to other class 4 cities, we're 50% below the average taxes on other class 4 cities. And it's because of this. And we've seen, you know, a almost a 24% reduction in our tax rate in the last three years because we
continually try to do these things that have an impact on taxpayers and saving money. So, it's, you know, leave no rock unturned. The the community does the same thing every day in their houses and we we need to follow that. Okay. >> Any other input?
>> But we'll definitely keep that in mind on the not advertised pollution type things. >> Don't go insane. But I think that pickle ball is >> contagious and they're excited and I think you ride that wave right now. Same with the skate park. >> And same with the skate park. I agree.
Um >> I think we're gonna be really lucky to start this way. >> I agree. And that's that's kind of why this is like the time where we really kick it off and we have a two perfect avenues hopefully and potentially the grant comes through on that. That would be that would be big. And speaking of the grant, Stephanie, what was included
in that? Uh we had a couple questions amongst our group. So was 200,000 for pickle ball. >> Give me one second. >> Yep. >> Do you know when we find out about it? >> Midsummer. >> Until midsummer. July usually. Okay.
>> So, if anything were to happen with the grant, say if we were to awarded it, nothing would happen till next year, most likely. >> Yes. >> Just with timelines, unfortunately. >> But stage two of the skate park starts. >> Stage two is starting before stage one. Yes. >> Yes. Yep.
>> But when? >> Uh hopefully in the next few weeks. So, there was uh the bowl's being moved right now and he's got to refurbish it. Uh so he's actually the way he's phasing it right now is um we're leaving the existing skatepark as it is.
>> He's going to bring in the skatepark bowl. Obviously when he's bringing in the bowl, they can still use the existing skatepark. Um and then when once the bowl is in, he's going to start on the phase one aspect because then the kids can still skate on the bowl. There's still there's going to be something skatable there the entire time. So there'll be no actual
construction shutdowns for any So it won't interrupt anybody's summer essentially. It's okay. >> I believe it was 200,000 for pickle ball, 75,000 for skate park. Um, and then trails was
the total project cost was 380 360,922. Um the included in it was pickle ball plus the third phase of the skate park plus lights for the um ice skating rink and
then trail connections. So we have to basically connect all of the items we're required to by this grant to make it the ADA. So like our basketball court is there's a grassy area in between the sidewalk or the path and the court. So
it's connecting that together. It's connecting um the skate park also has the same thing like the path doesn't connect to the skate park pad. There's just a gap of grass which isn't ADA accessible. So it's connecting that on both ends I believe as well as the
pickle ball court. So extending the trail to the pickle ball court and then extending the trail to the new skating rink area. So those trail connections as well. And it includes all seating and picnic tables as well within this green application. >> That's what we added at the last minute
with the tables and stuff. Yeah, that was good. >> Okay. And then um I've had questions about uh like a lack of sidewalk connection there on uh I don't remember the name of that street. Basically from I think it's >> Sandy Parkway. >> Sandy Parkway. Yes. third over there and
I know it was in some of our preliminary ideas. Is that included in this grant? >> It is not included in this grant. >> Okay, that was the question we had. So, >> it was a pretty expensive the and I'm not sure what it was, but I know it was expensive. >> Okay. And we're required you said a
connection to the basketball court even though it's not in the grant. We're required to connect that. >> Anything in the park needs to have a connection. >> Okay. How about the amphitheater? I suppose that does >> that amphitheater already has it. >> Mhm. >> Okay. I suppose the back side would just be from like the road just a little path
up the grass. >> Yeah. What they would like for what? For >> for the path to the basketball court. >> Yep. So it's just connecting the basketball court to the path. Like the path goes like just meanders by it, but it can't connect to it. Like there's a grass area
>> shoot >> between it. >> That's a bummer. >> So yeah, it's just these small connections which we knew we would have had to do the last time as well. So I knew that was just going to be a requirement. So easy to add it in. Otherwise, if you don't add it in, they do it and they're not paying for half of it. So, >> does does that include any sort of
connection over to I know we'd potentially talked about like a a bridge over that little creek there to the Iani Arena? >> Um, it doesn't include that connection, but it does just include it to extend that path, which is the most expensive part to put it bring it through the trees. And we looked for um Mr. Mr.
Becker and I looked for the shortest area and he measured things for for the grant and made sure that it was the correct amount. >> Okay. And we are working on collecting donations for a lot of that stuff. And the the donations received go 100%
towards our local match from how I read the grant. Um so if we say if we get a $5,000 donation from CAP from the uh pickle ball association that can go towards our $180,000 mandatory match. So now the city only has to put in 175,000. So hopefully we can get some donations
to offset that local match so we don't take have to take a bunch of money from our park reserve fund. So we're leveraging basically we're getting a two for one. We're getting twice the value on a on a donation out of this grant if if we're receiving the grant. >> And um we did because of that works that
way. We did we do have some sand material that we were able to use in the grant too. So we were using our own material which counts that value towards the grant also. So >> Okay. Well, sounds good. Good job, guys. I'm I'm really hoping that that comes through. I feel like it's going to be a strong application. >> Um, so we've been talking about that a
lot as a group and uh >> I guess we'll see what happens >> and if we don't get it, we can always apply next year, >> right? >> Yep. And hopefully we can have a plan in place so you know, we have really good numbers next year, too. Any other recommendations on what I
should bring back to that group or if if anybody wants to get involved in that group, please feel free to let me know. or if any businesses want to uh advertise or or be involved with sponsoring a park. Um we're we're talking about doing naming rights on the skate bowl. Um stuff like that. I think
it's a cool opportunity to get an advertising for your business. You can also business expense it and uh then be involved in your your community. Anything else guys? Okay, we will move on to item E6, flock
camera discussion. So, >> question. >> Yeah. >> How much how much of staff do we need for what's left? >> I don't think I think Josh, you don't we shouldn't need you for this, Josh. If you want to go home.
>> All right. You too. Thank you. >> Ask him twice. >> Unless you have input on this one. >> I didn't lock camera city code discussion. And there's good stuff left over.
>> Yeah. >> Who? >> I don't know. I I think it'll be all right. I I don't know that this ought to be super lengthy. >> Okay. >> So, I requested discussion on this item because the county sheriff's office uh decided to implement flock cameras at at
eight major entrances into the county and I I don't feel that they were transparent in the process. So, I wanted to have an open forum discussion on these cameras. I invited the sheriff's department here tonight, but uh I guess they couldn't make it. Um so these are a tool that collect vehicle information as
a vehicle enters the county. They definitely have good law enforcement uses, but also have downsides, uh flaws, and significant concerns. Uh I wasn't sure how aware our council group was that these uh are even going into the the county uh for a minimum 60-day trial
period. uh most communities and law enforcement agencies off are offering a public forum opportunity before even implementing the trial period. Uh this didn't happen in any county. Um and like I said, I'm a little disappointed in that and I think our community deserves to know what's going on and have a chance to voice their concerns.
Um, and another issue that that arose with this and what actually got me a little bit um, digging into it was that there was a little bit of information going around from the sheriff's department that someone from the city council in Sani actually approved of this trial period of flot cameras. Um,
so I wanted to clarify that we had no idea that these were going up in the county. Um, there's been no communication with any of us. Um, and I reached out and they they had their response was that they thought we had a discussion about it in an open city meeting. We never have. um not in as long as we've been here. I know back
about would you say about eight years ago the license the LPR uh went on that that one squad car as a trial period. >> Uh it actually wasn't a trial period. It was a grant county I would say. Don't quote me on it. 2015 through maybe 202021.
Okay. Operated the license plate reader on one squad. >> So that was over 10 years ago that that grant went through and we we tried it or we had it on a vehicle >> 2015. >> And that wasn't Flock, correct? That was a different brand. >> It was a different different database and it was a mobile. >> Yep.
>> Same capturing similar data, license plate data. >> Sure. And we are no longer doing that. So, I'm just wanting to clear that up. If you look at the BCA website, it still has us listed because like you said, in 2015, there was a a grant opportunity where our police department uh used those. Um, we have not come back to ever
approve them again. Um, so I just wanted to clarify that. And tonight I want to openly discuss how we as a group feel about that technology. Um I'm very pro law enforcement, but these cameras are not secure and have had far too many issues to be trusted with our residents data in my opinion. Um but I wanted to
see what you guys thought if you wanted to have a discussion just to be open with the community. Um if we wanted to set a policy to implement them or not implement them or give, you know, Travis the ability to say, "Hey, this is what our city council wants or doesn't want." I know the the sales people are very very sales pitchy. Um, and I don't know
if if law enforcement wants any sort of direction on that or not. So, I just thought we'd have an open discussion amongst all of us. >> I don't even know what the hell they are, so I could care less. >> Okay. >> I don't break the law, so I don't need to worry about it. >> Fair enough. A few years ago, I did have
a conversation about basically the same method that is not so intrusive, and that is trying to get um residents who have key pieces of property like ent one way in and one way one way out of a road
to have one of their surveillance cameras pointing towards the road so that if there is a crime committed on that road that uh the police department would have u maybe access to some video. I'd like to see our city become more proactive instead of giving up their
rights to to flock right now until more information comes out and it gets tried. I mean, there's a lot of cities that are against it, a lot of counties that are against it and some are for it and it is a great tool. I've looked at I mean, it's a great tool for law enforcement,
but what are we as individuals giving up as far as our personal and and given rights to be able to have the government use these? And will they not abuse it in the future is my my only worry. In the
meantime, I'd like to see us find a different way to uh address this, address what Flock already can basically do, and that is monitor who's going through a community, but only on an if needed basis and not have that
information public, >> which I think we already do. If there's a if there's a crime in an area, do you guys generally look for for any sort of ring cameras or anything like that? Yeah, we do. But I think what George is talking about, there are communities that actually promote a program within
their community if like so we would have >> you can sign up that you have cameras at your address at such and such place and we can have a map of that and if we if they need that they can go ask George, do you have any video at 3:00 from yesterday from whatever. So there are
communities that actually promote, >> okay, >> that type of program. >> That's what I wanted to do or was leading into a few years ago when this subject came up because most of these surveillance systems you buy nowadays come with four, 6, 8, 10, 12 cameras.
And if we're promoting this, people might buy an extra two cameras and point them off to the street to give the police access if they ever need it, if there's a crime committed in in that area. and he reach out to the community asking for footage and he might be able
to identify a vehicle. >> Okay, that's an interesting idea. >> I I just installed 12 of them on my mom's house. So >> Oh my gosh. >> Like eight. >> Yeah. So if anything ever happens, and I know down on my street there was a a thing um like some intruder was going
through somebody's garage the other night and it was caught on somebody's camera. They posted that they posted that on Facebook and you know you couldn't really tell who it was but it's like now everybody's aware and I love that about this technology where we can help each other but it has to be a you have to be voluntarily involved with it.
You shouldn't be mandatorily involved with something like that. So >> right that's what I meant voluntary. Yeah, I think that's an interesting idea. >> Or even a police department reaching out to key residents, maybe have a already a template of a letter and sends it out to
key residents in areas that a camera would work great for what they need to do. >> So, is that something maybe we could get more information on or like I don't know, >> look and see what the other communities do? Yeah. Now, I don't want to get into
what's more intrusive or not intrusive, but that would be an actual video of somebody which you wouldn't get off flock. >> Sure. >> But that's owned by a private individual anyway. >> But anyway, there we can I can't recall which community, but there are
communities out there. We can look and see what they've done for their promotion of that. like they they they put out a promotion to say, "Hey, if you're interested in cooperating and you have cameras in your neighborhood and you want to let the police department know."
I don't know how they're doing that, but there are communities doing that. >> It's almost similar to like remember when there would be like safe houses for like kids. Like you would put up a thing in your window that said like this house is >> is it what? >> They had McGruff houses. >> Oh, that's what it was. Yeah. >> Yeah. Similar. So they there are
communities in Minnesota, local communities doing that. So we can look and see which ones are doing it, how they're how they're promoting it, what how they're tracking that type stuff. >> And obviously it would be totally voluntary based. Right. >> Right. >> Just a different approach because I think the most the issue with this is
the brand itself and there's been a lot of issues. We'll just say that. But if there is something that's maybe more communityfriendly, I mean I I I don't know how I feel about the whole surveillance thing in general, but it's an interesting thing to talk about idea, you know, concept. The only thing is is
like we can get that data from anywhere like Placer AI will give us oodles of information and none of you are even aware of it and none of you have okayed it and none of you >> exactly. So, I guess you're being monitored all
the time. And if you're telling me that a system that the sheriff is just trying >> is going to tell me like I guess I just look at like our our small community right now and there was a child that was abducted just to our neighborhood or not
our neighborhood but to our neighboring city. You know, like what if that had stopped some of the things that had happened to that child sooner than it did? >> Right there. There are drugs. I mean, we had like >> Or was that how that child was located?
>> Stop, Travis. >> That was actually u >> from flock or place ID. >> Ring cameras. >> Ring camera. So, >> the location. >> The location. >> The location. Okay. I mean, but we have had drugs in our community, too. I mean, we had that ginormous thing with the cartel. Correct.
>> Like, I don't I don't know what they're going to use it for. I don't know a lot about it. I know it's down in Georgia, and I read a little bit about it because you put it online. So, I did Google it and talk to many people about it. >> I I think a lot of people say, "I'm not doing anything wrong."
>> You know, you can take pictures of my car if you want. You can follow me. You can track my speed. You can do >> I'm not worried about it. What are they going to sell me? >> A 2014 Honda? I don't think so. Like that. >> What are you so worried about?
>> So, you want my personal opinion? >> I do. Yeah. >> Okay. Well, there's been uh there's been data issues. Um people can I I've literally watched a video on YouTube where someone hacked into their it's a cloud-based storage, so you can hack in, you can get the information fairly easily. Um this has been happening in Europe for a long time, and there is
actually people there that go around and just take them down. Um and there's there's data privacy issues as far as law enforcement. Now, I think our enforcement officers here are great, but where they use that to do things that they shouldn't be doing. Um there's issues. My biggest concern is liability
of harassment type issues. If if you if they can prove that an officer is harassing a certain individual, then it creates a potential for a lawsuit. Now, you can have that either way. Um, but there's a lot of information and that I specifically personally don't trust. Um,
and that's why we have this conversation and why every single person in this community should have the opportunity to talk about it, get their input heard, and that's that's the whole issue. Um, and that's why I just want to open it up so we can talk about this. Again, it's not necessarily, you know, should we do it or should we not do it? It's just to
have a discussion because the community wants a discussion on it. >> Were you invited to that meeting? >> Which meeting? >> I don't know. Someone responded and said you were invited to a meeting. >> So, I can clear that up. So, I'll just tell you, you guys want the backstory? I'll give it to you. So, I had found out
through another city council. Um they were talking about this flock camera in one of their public hearings cuz they had two public hearings in North Branch regarding flock where they let the people come in and talk before they decided on it. And in one of the public hearings uh law enforcement officer said that they were uh planning on collecting
data from Sani County soon because I county was implementing these and that was news to some people and I I heard about it. So, I reached out to the sheriff's department and asked um and he said yes, we are. And I asked if there was anything at public hearing and he
said there wasn't. Um and then he invited me to come see the system. I've actually seen the system and researched it myself. I've known about it for a couple years. The flock cameras have been everywhere and it's been kind of on my algorithm so I'm aware of how they work. I've seen how they function. Um so I did say I don't need to see them. Um I
would just appreciate if you guys would have some sort of public hearing. Um I talked to the county commissioners. They didn't know about it. Um, and then, uh, it was in a consent agenda item on their utility permits, which I don't feel was an appropriate place to put it. Um, and it was somehow missed. Uh, but then
they, uh, requested to have a committee of a whole meeting on this and where they actually talked about it and I came in and gave public input along with four other people and we had this type of open discussion. Uh, that was the March 12th meeting that I refer or May 12th meeting that I referenced earlier. Um, so that's just we need to continue to
have these open conversations, you know, no matter what happens. We that's that's the the message here. It's not necessarily, you know, flock cameras. I personally don't agree with them, but the message is transparency. And we see this in all sorts of forms of government where people just aren't transparent. And we need to continue to be
transparent. So people trust what we do and so they trust law enforcement. You don't want to push a divide in law enforcement because you're not being transparent. I think we do a good job here with that. you know, we promote our law enforcement and and try to be transparent with everything. That's why I want to get ahead of this and and just
talk about it so everybody knows that we did not approve these fog cameras. We had absolutely nothing to do with this as a city and that that whole rumor was was started by the sheriff's department and I I'm not going to go into that, but we don't we haven't had that discussion here, so I wanted to have it. Would you
agree with most of that, Travis? Yeah, as far as we have, there's been no flop camera discussions within the city uh city council or >> what >> Thank you. >> What kind of insuranceances could you give the public? Let's say that we were we had a flock system. What kind of
insuranceances could you give the public that one of your own officers couldn't abuse it to follow a girl he's interested in and and figure out her routine and >> well, they'd be fired. So when you start going on that path, we allow our
officers to carry guns to shoot people. >> Right. Right. >> So if we allow them to carry a gun to shoot people, >> we should be able >> then I don't know if how many more whatifs should we go. So if we're concerned about an officer, how dare we give them a gun that's capable of shooting somebody if we don't trust
them. You know what I mean? I mean, there's so many whatifs of responsibility and they carry a high level responsibility. And obviously there's officers that do things wrong, right? Right. And we address those in, you know, nationally, locally, or whatever you want to say. >> But the point of if you're, we have
officers out there right now driving cars with loaded guns in their car that have the authority to shoot people. So that's a very high threshold of responsibility and trust we have in them. So I don't know, you could go down
the whatifs of every whatif down the path, but we give them the ultimate responsibility to start with. >> I agree. I just until we know more about it and all the checks and balances between what information is giving out, how how police departments are
effectively using it, what controls are in place. I mean, I'm I until I do more research, I I'm not comfortable with it right now. I'd like to go a different direction, but that's the way I feel about it right now, too. I I I can see how and I I like you said, I have most
people have nothing to hide. They don't, you know, it's a good thing. Could it could it have improved the safety? Yeah, it could. But are there other options out there? We don't know. We don't know how the government will use it in the future once it gets all set up.
>> So, that's it. Those are all the things we have to look into. >> Um, >> yeah, I do really really why I ran for this position. I want us to be kinder, more respectful, less
fingerpointing to the people that don't agree with us. I mean, we just we have to stop angering people. I I know that you guys love this discussion piece of it, but holy moly, like there's just so many angry people about it and like and
we keep going to like that 1% or.1% of what could happen. And I agree it can happen and it does happen but that's not the majority. That's not >> Mhm. >> And I just >> we don't >> we actually we don't know if
>> Okay. We don't know that. But we do know that we're angering people by saying certain things and that flock that flock >> camera discussion went like way offkilter. Um and and other discussions recently have gone way offkilter because
I feel like it I don't know the discussion becoming so narrow and so like what Travis just said like >> like the majority these officers are all carrying guns. I mean I never even thought about like just the idea of like
this flock thing could be terrible but like we're they already have all the ammunition they need. They have all the ability and yet we place a lot of trust in them and and I do trust them. I don't I don't typically in my brain go right to what if they try to do this. I mean I
I put my trust in it. I put my trust in if they want to try the flock camera try it and then come to us. >> Not me. >> No, I know. I know. But and that's the thing like that's why we're having this discussion and that's what I'm saying like a lot of people do feel the same as
me. My algorithm points to something really different. My algorithm, not the same as you three, correct? >> But my algorithm sends me very different messages. >> It's because it's aimed at me. Your algorithm is sending you very different messages.
>> 100%. >> And that's why you have the discussion before you implement it, you know, and I I've >> they haven't implemented it. They're triing it. >> No, it's implemented. That's imple. So, as of as of last week, all of them were up and that was actually months before the flock was even supposed to put them up. So they came on their own will and
put them up ahead of time already. And that wasn't supposed to be that wasn't the agreement. So my problem is the transparency is an issue. You also can't trust a company that doesn't listen to the guidelines and the time frame that you gave them. >> I can appreciate >> different places and on those shared posts I had over 2,000 comments. I went
through and counted and there were less than 200 that were pro flock. Now obviously that's not 100% representation. And there's there's many it's not a you know a science research study but the fact that there's that many people in our community and other communities I'm sure that commented that
are against the flot cameras that's a 90 to10 ratio you saw there again that's not all telling but that that tells you that we need to have a discussion about it and I love this discussion this that's the whole point of government and I think as leaders we have to call out transparency anytime it's not transparent because it's so easy for the
government to push stuff through without people knowing And then after the fact, people are like, "What the heck happened?" So, I'll tell you guys right now that down at LMC, uh, I go down as a city rep. And there's been actual open mention about implementing a commuter tax on people outside of the Minneapolis
Metro 7 area. And they have actually had roadblocks with this because there's not an easy way to implement like toll stuff. Well, last year someone brought up flock cameras. So, flock cameras are all over the state. All it takes is one state policy for
them to get that information and say, "Hey, now everybody that drives past one of these flock cameras, we're going to charge you a dollar every time you drive past one." So, this is actually this can impact our our community and the state holds the reigns on this stuff, not us, you know? So, how are we going to say we implement this and now all of a sudden
our taxpayers get a monthly thing of $100 that they have to pay because they drive down to the metro? like this is actual this is actual policy that is being discussed at the state capital and it's just a concern because how far does this go you know next it could be during a co shutdown again you know if you
caught leaving the like this just these are examples you know and maybe it's not going to happen maybe it is but this is the the discussion that the community wants to have and I want to provide that and whether we talk about this all the time you know like I said I invited the sheriff's department here today and there was supposed to be someone here u
maybe we'll have to have this discussion again and get more information. Um, but I encourage people to watch that meeting. Um, there's people on both sides that are interested in hearing more. So, >> and I'm interested to hear more about the system. >> Sure. >> And about what it can do for us and what
it can't do for us, but I don't like talking about how awful it is or the wrong things that are going to happen because of it. But, but I I like to get data. I like to get information. >> Yep. Well, anything that interferes on individual rights, I have a hard time
with because I'm I'm just pro- individual rights. I mean, that's what our country was based on and that's what we need to protect, even if we have to do it on a local level. Um, so I don't even, you know, I I'm not 100% familiar with this system either, but I can see I
can see some cause for abuse in the future or what it could lead into. That's my main concern. Nick, did you have any >> because once you give them once you give the government an inch, they're they're not giving it back. I mean, that's >> I can appreciate that. Nick, did you
have any input on this? >> I can. >> Yeah. Um there's all the things that could happen which I have many concerns about what could happen but outside of that I think there's a principle of what's being talked about and I'm not a
constitutional law scholar but I think this for me crosses warrantless search and seizures this mass surveillance type stuff. I understand that the product can be used in an effective manner towards the ends of certain goals of law
enforcement, but even without that or even with that, I think you're giving something up when you have that. And I can't do anything about the NSA doing mass data surveillance, but at the city and at the county, we can have control over not paying for our own surveillance. Um, which could be used in
a good manner. It can also be used in a a bad manner. like if the state legislature passed something that if you have this system and you have to allow us access to it and even though they're not paying for it now all of a sudden the state has access to it first. So if
there is a another thing that happens where they want to do contact tracing they have the the means to more effectively do so. So I have I have concerns from a a principled standpoint even outside of the what could happen. And I think even if they operate as described and the company is
trustworthy, you're still it's still more or less search and seizure in my book. >> Steve, do you have any input on this conversation? Not particular. >> I think right now we've discussed it. At this point, we're done with it. >> Yep. >> Let's move forward. No,
>> it's fair. >> I mean, it's it's it we've already all voiced our opinions. >> You know, Erica is not against it. I don't I I I >> I just don't have an opinion yet. I I've only read about it for one week, >> but I understand I I get where she's at.
I get where you're all at. It's also could be something very safety conscious for a mad bomber that's coming through and they could catch it. I get it. But it's it's not something that I want to implicate to our people
because I'm going to say right now whatever I think there's probably 30 people that think opposite of that. So it's it's their decision. If they to me it should have been something that the the county people should have took a
vote on. Plain and simple. >> If they just said yes >> that >> if they said yes then that's what it is. It's just like presidents. You may not like the president that we have. All you can do is vote against that person,
but you still need to accept that they got elected because of the votes, >> right? >> And you have to respect that, right? >> 100%. >> And that's where I'm at with it. I I don't care about it because I I don't disagree with you that that all of a sudden I'm driving in Minneapolis and
all of a sudden I get a ding on my phone. Oh, you owe $14 because you drove down I35. Well, I don't think that's that that that is an intention that shouldn't be done, >> right? >> Plain and simple. >> My last comment would be that the people
I've talked to, this doesn't seem to be a political thing. There are the vast majority of people I've talked to in the real world have issues with it from both camps. >> That is very true. Bipartisan support. >> Even I would agree with that. Yes. See within my without my tin foil hat stuff
like just as far as what it is as described it is a over majority people having issue with it >> right so what I would >> a tin foil hat >> it's made out of real tin foil I mean aluminum foil it's the legit stuff so it actually works >> so I would I would propose I don't know
how you guys feel about this but I would like to have something in writing that we if we ever consider something like this it would have to come before the council >> like I don't know if you guys are By our own city policy, it would we can't enter into any contracts without council's
approval. So, >> but what about the trial period stuff too? Is it the same type of set of contract with it? Um, so yeah, I mean, right as we are, the city of Vani does not have any contract or pursuing any
contract. Uh, we don't even have access to the flock data, but I will tell every one of you that we will utilize flock data if it's given to us. If there's an abducted kid coming up 65, >> right? And they tell us that flock data says this. The dispatch gives it. The city of Iani will use flock data.
>> Right. >> Right. I mean, how do we not? Yep. >> Whether we agree with don't agree with it, >> but you'll come to us before we decide before anything like that is >> No, he'll save the child first and then >> Well, no, no, I'm saying with implementation, right? >> No, we're not. >> Yeah, I don't.
for us to actually, let's say we wanted to do what the county did, we would have to sign a contract with Flock um to have a trial and we can't engage in a contract like that without going through council anyway. Not to mention, I think I told you this already, Luke, and let's say you you put something in writing.
Well, in six months from now and there's a new majority council, they can put something else in writing. So, it's relevant. >> Yep. Um, so I I I I mean he can if you really think it's means something, but we're not going to go like anywhere down the flock camera system without any
council input. >> Okay. >> Other than like I said, utilizing data that we're getting from other flock users. >> I would still like to consider something. You're not going to be here forever. I think you're great. And I don't know in 11 months. >> Yeah. And do you don't have it down to the the day?
>> Well, it's not just that. It's also in the city code unless somebody was to change it >> and by by signing a letter today >> can get changed by a total different council. >> So as of right now I don't think we need anything in writing because everything has to come through council approval no
matter what. >> I thought it was just a discussion. >> Well yeah it is but I didn't know if we'd want to bring it forward ever or not. I don't know how you guys feel. >> I don't see any reason with a resolution if you want to present one next meeting or the meeting after of some sort. Nick, >> I mean, it's at least a speed bump that
someone had to go and change something and bring it before the people or have the discussion or sign something. So, it requires an action. >> Yeah. To undo it. >> If you look at the county process that was supposed to be transparent and clear with that, too. >> And it was so I want to make sure that we're all on the same page.
>> Elected authority to do contracts were >> so that he has more authority than than you do. >> Okay. Well, just something to consider. Uh we can have discussion again or not at some point. So maybe we'll come back, maybe we won't. I don't know.
>> I think we're good for another one. >> Okay, everybody good? Anything else to say? >> No. >> Thank you for the Thank you for the input, Erica, Steve, Nick, everybody. You know, we had the discussion. If anybody has questions, you're welcome to come to any of us. >> That was a good discussion. >> It was a great discussion.
Uh item number seven, city code discussion. >> That's me. >> Oh, okay. Go for it. >> Uh, so I guess I' I'd had questions for council and for city staff about certain things that are in code. Uh, since things switched to a complaint based system, there's still things that are on
there that are not enforced. I'm wondering if things go x amount of time without being enforced, if we want to reduce them or eliminate them. uh such as like things like trash cans in front of houses or uh I was going to do a a fence permit, but the stated uh distance
from the sidewalk that a fence is allowed if you go and you drive around, there's many fences that are within that amount. So, I know some people are grandfathered in, but trying to unify that stuff so that not just people are grandfathered in, but things are what the minimum is that they need to be. that would that would take a a very
large ordinance change to make those adoptions, especially just a blanket, which since our code is codified, is also very expensive um and would take a lot of time because we'd have to go through it individually. So, if it's zoning code regulations, we could go
through it. We have gone through it quite a few times in the last few years and made a lot of changes. Um a lot of the fence requirements specifically for sidewalks um distance are in related to um the vision triangle requirements that
we have for sight lines for driving and so that's why those have been implemented. Um but if you want >> setbacks come into play with that then. >> Yep. setbacks come into play because if the depending on what the fence opacity is um either it has to be so far away
from the corner um which is a safety requirement for driving. Um so there's a lot of a lot of different reasons why some of those have been in place. Um but definitely open to a discussion if you want to talk
about them and we can just because there's so many varying places that you've brought up. Um it would be difficult for us just to do it wouldn't be a simple change. It would be an overwork of our zoning. >> I said I I there's three of them that I know of and I just was wondering
but yeah I So you would just prefer me to email you or do you want to do that? >> Yeah, you can we can you can meet or email whatever you prefer. I think that'd be our best way to just talk about some of the reasons why some of them are implemented because some of them are just sometimes it's related to statute requirements or safety
requirements or other things. >> Another one would be like there's a requirement that you have two trees in your front yard. Builders build it like that but then the homeowner takes them out. Why? >> We actually just amended that um in the last two years so that actually not every yard requires two in the front
yard. Um it depends on the width of your lot road frontage. So we do have some now many that only require one tree in our front yard. We are required to replace trees in many reasons um for our um tree replacement plan because when
new developments are built um they're often tearing down or um obviously in some senses ruining a natural habitat for animals and other things of that nature. And so the replacement is an
environmental um thing that we do for our city to create a better place to live. Um so generally that tree replacement is included the front yard tree replacements is included in the larger development plan for the tree replacement that's required by
developers >> or by us for developers. >> So basically your question Nick is it seems like some areas have sort of different rules than others. Um and I think a lot of that like we see it in county roads versus city roads. There's different requirements for different
projects and like the sidewalks, they have to be within a certain everything. Every project has a little bit of variance. Every development has a little bit of variance. That's why when they come in, they they have all these variance type requests where it's like, well, we can't make this happen. Can we accept this? And I think as you have a
developing city, you're going to have different aspects of different areas of town that have just different flatout different requirements. Is that kind of the >> You're correct. We do most of our developments are created by um PUD which allows for more flexibility which um
sometimes gets um the negative sides of it. They think it's trying to keep people out but we really use it as a flexible tool to allow for more um options for homes like so specifically that one tree limit in that development
um would be allowed specifically in a newer development. But now we did change our entire ordinance to match that. So sometimes sometimes it makes way for an ordinance change when we do a PUD. Um but PUDs really do allow for more flexibility, but that is why you see
some setbacks in different zoning districts um for different things, but generally not fences unless they have been grandfathered in. Um but generally there's a reason why the setback has been changed and it's maybe because the rightway is different in that roadway
also. So sometimes if it's a county road for instance, the rightaway is a lot wider. Um if it's a narrow city street that's in an older part of town, the rightway that we own is much smaller. So it just really depends on what your lot is. >> And it's kind of like people like every
person has a little bit different traits and characteristics. Every little development is going to have different things, too. It would be nice if we could uniform it, like make it more uniform, but you can't go back and postate stuff to, you know, if this fence is already up, you can't, >> you know, take it down.
>> I the sighteline thing I hadn't considered before, but I guess I was thinking that at some point in time, the distance between sidewalks and fences, I I was just trying to figure out what the minimum is that's needed for like sidewalk replacement or repair. >> Okay? >> And if that's what was driving that
setback, then going towards the minimum that's actually needed. I will say the minimum requirement for that is actually set by plowing because we need enough room to plow um and maintain that snow storage when we do get a lot of snow especially since the city's the one maintaining the sidewalks and
>> and then when they plow the drive and they plow the sidewalk and they break the person's fence and they want the city to pay for fixing it. So now you make put a setback on it. >> But then like if all these fences aren't following a setback then why is it even there? Well, we are pretty strict about
our fences and where they go. We inspect all the fences and they have to get a permit every time. So, if we don't know about it, a fence that went in that was unpermitted, we'll eventually find out about it if it didn't meet the setback. Um, also it would be likely or could be
impeding upon u drainage and utility easement. Uh, storm water pipe because we've had fences impact storm water pipes which is a very expensive expense for a homeowner because they didn't get a permit and we didn't know that they were and they didn't realize they had a storm water pipe on their property line.
So, we do recommend fence permits most of all actually and it's not because we're just trying to regulate something. it actually protects you more in the long run. >> So, I have a question. Uh the sidewalks on Whiskey Road, there's a couple of them that are literally touching the
sidewalk and are those generally approved or what was that >> that was either grandfathered in or we don't have the rightway because that that road was so old. I that's where the sidewalk discussion actually lies within is that that rightway is not the same
>> width throughout that road. >> Okay. So we it really depends on where the rightway is on where the fence can go. >> And that one seems to have the most amount of variance. And I know that's kind of what I think brought it to your attention. It's like there's some that are 8t from the sidewalk and there's some that are 2 in from the sidewalk. So
it's just >> sometimes people choose to, you know, just have a smaller fence and yard too. Sure. >> I wouldn't have ever thought that, but I as a fence perimeter, some people just do want an area for their dogs and then they want an open area. So, >> okay.
>> You never know what the reasoning is. >> Is there any way that you know, have have you ever thought like, man, we should clean this up some way with the f with any of that stuff? Is there anything? >> Um, yes and no. It would it would be a big task. I don't think it's something
just our internal staff would be able to take on at this point. Like, we're just constantly doing daily work >> 100%. >> Which is really >> awesome, >> busy. So, that's great. So, I have we've talked about it a few times and I like
we just know that it's a huge undertaking for us to do a complete ordinance um revamp for the zoning ordinance. Anyway, um I know the city of Becker just did it. It's where I live and I think it cost them $75,000. So, also why I haven't asked.
>> Sure. >> Okay. But there's nothing like absolutely glaring that you're highly concerned about. I mean, we could talk about it anytime, >> especially since we're complaint based right now. And maybe that's some of the stuff that you're concerned about is that we're not we've been I mean, it's
been the wishes of the council for us not to have somebody going around looking for things and reporting them. And so since we're not doing that, unless we get a complaint, we're not reporting on things. So if the council's wishes change and they want us to start
enforcing things from our standpoint, we will do that. It's it's the really your will of how we enforce the code. >> Well, that's not changing for me. There's no way we're paying somebody to go tick off residence. >> So, >> but if it's a complaint, then we we follow through. That's
>> if it's if it's not bad enough that public works can't do what they need to do or that someone is unwilling to file a complaint over it, then I don't understand why it shouldn't be on the books. >> Um, often times they're in there because we've had issues in the past and it gives us a leg to stand on when the
extremes do happen, which obviously many of you have discussed that those are things you're worried about. So, we do live in the world of extremes in the zoning. >> It's going to cost more to remove them than it is worth leaving them in there. I think as far as like nuisance, you're
referring to like some of the nuisances that are probably on the books that we haven't even >> like trash cans in in front of someone's garage is out of state code. I see it over half the time. >> Just for example here, the first time we ever had to deal with in the nuisance code, which is foul smells. I don't remember how it's referred to that, but
right, you can't have something that's foul smelling. So since we've been doing it, I've never even had to even deal with that. >> How do you define that? Well, when your neighbor threw chicken carcasses in their backyard in a box since last winter, >> we actually had grounds to stand on to
go >> deal with it, right? But I would have never envisioned that would have been an issue. But if you you're the neighbor and if we say, well, we haven't used that nuisance ordinance for six years. We got rid of it. It's probably not a good answer either, >> right?
>> So, that was just one I could think of. It was like two weeks ago we dealt with it was chicken carcasses and it did smell and we've never dealt with that before. >> And it is some of the stuff is for the whatifs. You know, there's probably a hundred situations we never thought of
that we don't have anything in there for. Everything changes. The times change, people change. I mean, >> it's been better than it has been though. >> Yes. >> Yeah. The complaint based stuff. >> Yeah. >> Yeah. >> That was always my complaint. It was always should be a complaintbased.
>> I remember that time that was horrible. I remember I got a letter for somebody else's chickens in my backyard. It's like they're not even my chickens and I was threatened with a ticket. >> It was it was long better to change it to complaintbased than having >> right >> a cso officer walking around measuring your grass because he would only go to
where a certain person told him to go. >> I'm not I'm not trying to go away from complaint based. I'm just saying that >> I I just think it's worth more. it it's going to cost us way more to remove somebody's garbage can ordinance in front of their garage than it's worth just leaving it in there. If you're not
going to call and complain about it, who cares? I don't care. >> And I do think if you don't have any ordinance um like the man who came in tonight and said, you know, he was concerned about some of the things that were in our ordinance actually um that weren't enforced because we hadn't heard a complaint on. Mhm.
>> You'll have more of that happening because we won't have any way to get rid of those nuisance issues. So, >> I want to file a complaint against my neighbor. He's got more in his yard than Brook Pro Brook uh Brook Park Auto Salvage has got
>> and I got to look at it every time I drive by it. But we allowed them to do that. This guy did. >> Me? >> Yeah. You and Jimmy? >> No, that was a group vote. >> No, it wasn't. I denied it 100%. I argued that the whole time. >> Yeah, but it was a majority vote.
>> I don't care. I still don't think it's right because it decreases my value of my property when you have a junkyard next to you. And that was my argument. And I guarantee you there's more people that feel that way than you think. >> There probably is. Yeah. >> And when he next next thing is he was changing his oil out in the flipping
street and you can drive down the street, you can see the puddle. >> That's illegal. >> Yeah. Well, that's illegal, but you allowed it so nobody says anything. >> No, we don't allow that. Yeah, that's >> No, stop before you say this. When you allow them to have a junkyard, they are going to do that. And he drains his oil
in his flipping yard to keep the dust down because he's not parking on his asphalt. So, plain and simple, when you allow them to do that, you're going to allow that to happen until somebody files a complaint about it. If we did see oil in the street, all of our police
officers and um public works people are trained to report that. So, >> Travis, tell your officers to drive down and look at, you know, which house I'm referring to. Tell them to look out just west of it and you'll see it cuz that truck sat there for a week and I when
they finally moved it, it was about this big. >> You can file a complaint. It doesn't matter because we still allow him to have his backyard look like a junkyard >> and it's not going to change the fact that was the my biggest complaint by allowing people to park all these junk
vehicles, boats and trailers and everything in their yard. I don't to to be a foot off your driveway with your tires, no big deal. But when you're parking four cars off your driveway in your yard is decreasing the value of everybody's property.
>> That's against ordinance. Correct. That was ordinance a while ago. >> I think it's still against ordinance if you have starting to start. >> I think it did change. >> It did change. You allowed them to park on their grass. >> Yeah. Yeah. I guess we have to look at
the specifics, but file a complaint. >> But I'm just what I'm just saying is there's things in there that even though I could complain about aren't going to change anything. It's going to cost us more to change our codes than it is worth just leaving them in there.
>> I agree. I think it's better. It's like an insurance policy. You know, you don't ever know when you're going to need insurance. But if there's that rare circumstance where you need insurance or need something a foot to stand on, it's better to have it than not need it than need it and not have it. But I understand the intent.
>> That's anarchco tyranny. >> I I What' you say? >> Anarchco tyranny. I don't know what that word >> anarchy for some, tyranny for others, >> a two-tier justice system. >> I do not use those words a lot, >> but I understand the intent to try and
make it more simple and clean it up. And >> but if it's going to cost the city more money, that means this goes back in the tax. >> I'm not saying to expedite and like say nothing happens until it's done. I'm just saying like if we come across this stuff, can we look at trying to elimate the stuff that nobody enforces and there's no complaints off of? Like why h
I don't know like where when is the trash can thing going to come into play where it's a good thing we had the trash can ordinance on the books? >> Well, three mayors ago that that was a big thing. >> There's I've heard I've heard complaints about somebody that's had >> that has had that issue with their neighbor where they had like six garbage cans totally full of stuff in front of
their garage and the neighbors had to look at it. That has been a complaint. You probably know which one I'm talking about. Did they file a complaint though? >> Yeah, somebody filed a complaint and it was taken care of. >> Oh my gosh. I have my garbages in front of my garage. >> Oh my gosh. >> Because if it's around the corner, the
wind blows it over and that pisses me off way more and probably my neighbors. >> See, there's another mine in the garage. >> It doesn't mean that we can't change the ordinance. Amend it accordingly to be more reasonable because I am definitely for that. Um I don't think that we should have an ordinance that we're not
using. But also at the same time I just a a overhaul of the ordinance is very expensive. So just making you aware of that. >> And we've kind of tackled ordinance things here and there as they come up like oh this doesn't make sense. >> You still have another agenda item. >> We do.
>> Oh that was a final one. >> Oh thank goodness. Okay. >> Are you satisfied with motion to adjurnn? >> Second. >> Motion to adjourn from council member uh Peterson. Second from council member Zidan. All in favor say I. >> I. Any opposed? Motion carries 5-0.
Thank you everybody for the discussion.