all right welcome this evening to um tonight's LPA meeting it is April 14th and we're starting a little bit late we wanted to give everybody an opportunity to um beat the traffic and arrive
nita you want to take a call please sherson here tony Hammond here jean here susella
here and Patrick will not be able to be here tonight all right thank you oh in chair Lori Lam okay all right um can we stand for the
pledge of allegiance nita will you start it for us pledge algiance to the flag of the United States of America and to the republic for which it stands one nation
under God indivisible with liberty and justice for all [Applause] okay first on next on the agenda is the planning director and village manager section we have election of the chair but generally but um I was going to
suggest that we forego that this evening because at the next council meeting they're going to be reappointing some of you hopefully and maybe appointing a new person to replace Deb Gillis so it might make more sense to wait until we have a full board and with the all the people if you guys are okay with that i think
it's reasonable concur and um I also under this section if it's okay if we could um talk about potentially moving the week of the meeting not necessarily the day of the meeting but moving it off the second week of the month to away from council meetings would be super
helpful for John and myself so um we couldn't do it the third because I have affordable housing committee on the third Monday but if we could do it on either the 1st or the fourth if that works for anybody else that would be great i'd rather he do the f beginning of the
month than the end of the month okay i don't how everybody else feels in May oh it's just going forward it would just be going forward just going forward when you said you mean first the fir the first week of the first Monday in of the month going forward
so does anybody have a preference over the first or the fourth i like the earlier one so the first Monday of every month going forward yeah especially come December good point tony is that fine with you as well
i'm looking that's fine i'm looking oh you're looking do you have a Do you have a standing meeting on the first Monday of every month i have a standing first Tuesday so first Monday at least this time will work
okay we can try it and then if it seems to not be working we can figure something out all right so let's go forward with that so we will move the LPA meetings to the first Monday of every month okay thank you and that being said um May might be too early now to get
stuff on the agenda so we might miss May and move to start that in June in June so that would be June 2nd mhm okay okay all right do we have any additions or um deletions to the agenda for tonight no
all right hearing none moving forward public comment section we have a couple of people in the audience is anybody here for public comment no i'll wait for I'll wait for tie no hearing none moving we're going to get done here quickly all right um with our consent
agenda we're looking to approve of the minutes from our June 10th 2024 meeting motion to accept is presented second okay so that was Cheryl first and Tony second
anita any um discussion no ready for a vote please okay cheryl yes tony yes jean yes Susan Rella yes and Lorie
Miland yes motion passes five to zero all right great thank you all right moving on to tab A um I just had a request um if we could move um the last two i guess
that's C and D first since the applicant is here for that one and Ty represents both clients so uh he doesn't have his applicant doesn't have to wait wait the you want to do C and D first
because they're here and A and B isn't here and Tai represents both people does that make sense does anybody have a objection to that i don't i I would note that in our agenda packet it didn't appear to be an applicant issue which was one of my questions as to whom asked
for this ordinance referendum but if it's a public comment then they'd like to speak to it i don't have any problem taking it out of order if that's the question that was a question yes okay thank you i I'll make it clear next okay so there was an application to and it wasn't just a It was not an
application it was requested by a developer and um council members that's what I thought i thought I heard council members mhm okay was it actually an wasn't directed at a council meeting no okay and so it was
informal discussion of council members correct was it an action of the council no okay all right jennifer you want to take it over sure start with C um so C and D um so normally when they're companion
articles we hear them together and discuss them together and then you would vote separately if you're okay with doing that we'll do that so C and D are companion articles um they both uh relate to the affordable of early early evacuation allocation pool uh this is
the 300 early evacuation allocations that we received by the state of Florida um we have 292 of those left and um one of the criteria um for those units is that they not be constructed in a V zone a velocity flood
zone so um we have um a developer who is interested in a project uh that is in a Vzone uh he would be creating about I think it's 50 units of affordable housing and um asked that we consider removing the that restriction that they
be constructed in a Vzone um I've had conversations with uh Sheila Denord who's our chief building official and certified flood plane manager and um due to the um nature of the construction of projects within flood zones now in state
of Florida she did not see an issue with removing them removing that restriction and allowing the construction they'd all have to be raised up and built and to a certain level um so there was no issue there um the only issue that I had
initially concern that I had was the cost of flood insurance um being borne by um affordable housing uh rent uh owners but these are rental only these can only be rental and that would be borne by the owner and his rents are
capped for affordable housing so he would bear the cost of that increase in flood insurance so giving all of that um I had no um reason to not recommend um the ordinance change um and so that's why we're here this evening um and I can
let Ty speak to the specifics of it since it's really his client that asked for it all right great ty you want to make presentation thank you again ty Harris with the law firm of Ty Harris PA Plantation Shores
Drive Taanir so the story starts back in 2018 in 2018 I was the new planning director i'd been on the job for a week and I get called into Seth's office and Seth says "Hey we're 6 months behind Marathon and putting together our our affordable housing ordinance to get
those 300 units from the governor." Um I said "Okay boss what do you want me to do?" He said "Well go copy the ordinance for Marathon and use that one." So we did um I think it was Craig Southern and myself we looked at the ordinance we we talked to uh George Garrett who was the
planning director at the time and we got a copy of the ordinance and then we talked to the state to make sure Barbara Pal was at the state at the time said are we okay copying their ordinance and the answer was yes so we basically cut and paste their ordinance so that we could in quote kind of catch up to where
Marathon was in review and that's how our um affordable housing for the 300 special allocation um ordinance came to be if you actually looked at our code and we' spent a little more time on it
you would you would realize that when we had our other affordable housing allocations there's absolutely zero prohibition against putting an affordable unit in a vzoned property it was something for Marathon um but we
didn't know enough to to know enough um that that was for Marathon and that that really wasn't an issue that we needed to address so we dutifully cut and paste the entire ordinance i think we got all the the spelling errors out of it but that's how
we got our ordinance and you know as we've started whittling down properties left to do significant affordable housing there aren't a lot of properties as we know that are left that are that are vacant or scarified and this property is um even though this is an
ordinance that will benefit anybody in the future um for sake of of reference this is the property just south of Fiser in uh that vacant lot uh just to the south so the the plan is a 42 unit brand new affordable housing project with a
majority of the units being s uh single bedroom so it's a much needed project it's in a it's in a great spot i mean not many places can say that they have uh oceanfront view and um it will meet all FEMA requirements for for flood in
fact I talked to um Emily Shimper at the county a couple months ago and and she told me that they were also relaxing some of their standards to make it easier um and and just deferring to the FEMA guidelines and the FEMA standards instead of trying to uh create their own
so that's kind of the backstory how we got here and um that's why we're making this request it it may benefit other properties but it will certainly it's really the last thing um to move this project forward the project has been in
two for two years it's been going through comment review plans are done it's in Jennifer's office and if we're able to successfully move this ordinance along then that project's going to actually get off the ground and be a new affordable project with 42 units which
is something I think we need thank you and I'm here to answer any questions ty where did you say the project is this is the lot just south of Fisher you've seen it the vacant lot lights okay okay yeah and it's not actually on open water
because there's a breakwater and there's a that channel that runs right there but um that's the spot i object to it on a number of reasons but the primary one is because it is Vzon and there's so many areas that are Vzon that absolutely should not have housing on i think it creates a problem
including the piece of property we're going to talk about second now that's all vzone down there problem I have is we just looked at everything during the Cherret with where the future flood zone maps are we're looking at 10 years out from where the lower pieces are going to already be flooding you whether you've
built up on stilt or not is not going to solve the problem of housing in there escaping there or whatever it is this nonsense about evacuation is exactly that because in Irma we already proved you can't evacuate the keys with what we have but I just think it's silly to put
any form of buildings in a Vzone and in 20 years somebody's going to come back and say "Well I lost my property due to a storm can you you need to help me pay for it as a community?" And I just I have a problem with creating a problem as we go forward it's
I just see it as a real problem i I don't see any point in building where I'm going to have a problem less the next hurricane that comes through here and having built worked with affordable housing for the last 25 years including chairing Middle Keys Land
Trust it's problematic to get insurance as it is it's problematic to have to keep a reserve to know you might have to rebuild i know how difficult it was for us at Marathon and keep anything else it's it's just asking for multiple
problems all the way across the board ty I had a question you said that um this really didn't make this was a something you cut and pasted from Marathon um in your history why is it that Al Marada's concern over Vzone properties is different than Marathons
well because as I said when we looked at our code after we came up for air we we realized that if you looked at our our other uh affordable housing sections of the code there were no pro prohibitions at all uh for vzones so we were we were
kind of mystified we we didn't understand all of Marathon's issues with Vzones but our comp plan had been approved and all of our land development regulants had been approved without that restriction in Marada and if we were doing it again we would have just not
put it in there um because it wasn't it wasn't in there and wasn't a requirement of the state for Marada not sure all the mechanisms that go on with with Marathon but it was something the state wanted from Marathon now when you say it's something the
state wanted from Marathon as opposed to wanted from Al Marada why the distinction because a visone I don't know that's that's why we were we just went right with it and then it was once we started delving into the code and and getting our feet under us a little bit more and spent more time in the
affordable housing section we realized that that that all the other units we had at the time they didn't have that restriction it was only the ones that we got in the early outs that that had that restriction because we did it that to ourselves after the debacle of the West Coast for
these last three years with the Ian Michael Flo whoever else went through there um and the problem that Lee County is having now or the Fort Myers area is having because they allowed some things to be built back where is FEMA on building a vis right now because there
was a lot of conversation about what FEMA was changing i know that Lee County was in danger of losing its FEMA application that's the last I read in the Herald and several other things about what was going on over there because they had not complied with the FEMA standards on the rebuild where are
we on FEMA with this it's a I I I don't want to lose my FEMA insurance because we let something happen the the issue with FEMA is as long as we're building to the the flood standards that FEMA has uh in place we're okay that it's just not a blanket requirement for Vzone it's
a it's a much more detailed analysis as far as um what FEMA is going to require and the person that uh has the most information on that obviously is is Sheila as the flood the certified flood plane manager and she's reviewed this change in the ordinance with Jennifer
and felt that it was appropriate and like I said the county is also following in this same same path they're removing this blanket prohibition if they have one on vzones and they're deferring to FEMA standards on and you know the last article you saw
was the discussion about their downstairs enclosures that you remember the they had to be down to 300 ft if you did anything with them and now they're saying okay that doesn't make a lot of sense let's go back to a more reasonable standard and and so that's gotten most of the press with the county and
that's what I know about the county so Ty with this particular parcel how much of the parcel is in the VE zone jennifer do you remember from the site plan i don't have the site plan in front of me i can Yeah I mean you know what the
address is there yeah I think it has a part well I kind of have the answer because I you know you don't want to ask a question I don't already know the answer to right Ty that's usually the best way the answer to that question is is it almost the entire part the whole
thing I'm supposed to be looking at it's Yeah it's 84899 overseas yeah so I guess my next question is to you is I was gonna say all of it should be there's like a little piece of the front that's not but yeah but it be that upper
left corner as it starts up the hill yeah but everything else is Yeah i know how much water came across there in the last three stories so So obviously this is going to be a multi-unit and and believe me I think we need multi-units i've been I've been um highly promoting um multiple unit workforce housing
projects in in our area i think that makes the most the most sense versus you know a duplex or a triplex you know sporadically um sprinkled throughout the um the the village but you're still going to need to have an elevator right so those
things are going to be located in the flood zone below flood basically or at at flood on ground level so those things are going to have to take into consideration and and insurance costs have we considered that expense because you can't really that's going to be a carrying cost that you're not really
going to be able to pass on to to the occupants yeah we we're aware of that yeah they can't pass that on it's a it's a it's a developer born cost that stays with the property owner can't be passed on because the whatever you're going to get
for rent is is capped you can't go beyond that so you can't pass that cost on so you're just not making as much money if you're in a in a Vzone if insurance takes you that way realizing vis don't have anything but the other issue with this which we'll
have to take up later today let me back up i sat on the original affordable housing committee we wrote the ordinance it wasn't supposed to ever be oceanfront that's why I'm a little startled by this it's somewhere along the lines apparently that disappeared out of there it was never supposed to have been waterfront on affordable housing just
because of the proximity to the water and the sheer cost but be that as it may um I almost think that's irrelevant Cheryl because if we have a developer who owns a parcel that's on the waterfront and that's what they they want to do that's their prerogative my problem is with the
Vzone right but that was the whole discussion when we had but even with the Vzone he has to build it above above way above flood i'm just and he is taking the risk and so I don't really see what the problem is is that if he's taking the risk and um and he's willing to do
so he's probably an anomaly he's probably the only one who's willing to take this risk i'm just looking i mean but there are other parcels that are partially in a ve zone with it's just just a a a nub right there's a whole slew of them in lower M right and maybe
there's just a nub of it but most of them are in an AE zone but then they still because it's in a a section of that parcel is in a V zone they're not able to to um use that section just think building in a V zone is a bad plan
well so this is an example and this is not a threat i'm just giving another example of what could be done so you could take the 12 hotel units at SD because this property is owned TC we could move those over and build a 12-unit hotel and it would still have an
occupation of people that would be evacuated in the same time frame that this group would have to evacuate so you know is that the highest and best is that the best use for Isa Marada a a small boutique hotel another one on the ocean or is it for you know affordable
housing in an area where we have a high demand and you know if you watched all of those presentations that we saw um from the the planning group how many was it 3,000 folks are are driving down a
day uh for for jobs and 49% of the jobs are are in um in the hotel and uh and entertainment industries and restaurant industries it's a choice you know you
either do a a small hotel or you or you do affordable housing and take your shot but um because that's what it's zoned for possible i can say just a couple words yep am I yes you just did the microphone
i'm sorry yes so so Michael Hulie is the the owner of the property and um I'm also res and he's he's a resident here as well while we're waiting let me ask a couple of questions um are we are we
using affordable housing and achievable housing in the same sentence now or are they separate and then um I'd like to know a little bit about what the construction of affordable housing in a V zone is going to look like okay so the
so for this these fall under that very specific group of the 300 from way back when Governor Scott did the early outs so it's it's designated affordable housing rental with on-site management so you know these are contemplated to be
multi-unit projects because of the of the requirement of of needing to have on-site management and this is in and they have to evacuate unless they're emergency personnel that that are working for fire or you know or for the
sheriff's department they have to evacuate when the tourists evacuate is this going to be mid mid-inccome low and low it's going to be whatever the cap is in Marauder right now we have all three
ty do you know if um you mentioned that this is applicable to those 300 units outside of those 300 units could you build affordables in a V zone yes that's that's what I'm saying is that this only applies to the early out allocations if there were any allocations left um the
other thing is that if we had a little more commercial development here we could use live local and then the question would be how do you use live local because we could use live local and not even be bothering with the with the early outs um our problem is after
Jennifer did the calculations for live local we don't have we actually don't have enough commercial industrial property in the village of Alam Marada to qualify for live local because we're less than 20% 16% we like Yeah we're
less than 15% but I think live local is like 20% so that's why we're still kind of working with the early out allocations m I'm gonna let Michael is the owner of the property hi everybody mike Hulie uh I have a
house down here 75810 Overseas Highway um I've owned a home in Marada for over 20 years my partner in this project is Al Fernandez he couldn't be here tonight he's up in Fort Lauderdale our our primary homes are in Broward County and
Al also has a place on Tollgate um right down there on lower Madakumbi as well and since we've had homes here for 20 years we really see the need that you guys have we have for affordable housing if I wasn't a resident of this community
I would have packed up my tent and ran away from Marada i have I started on this project when when he was the the director of planning and zoning i remember the very first week that you were on the job and met you and you were excited about I don't know how long you've been here yet Jennifer but uh so
I I I went through Ty Hank uh Dan Galizio Jennifer is you could just imagine and all I'm trying to do is develop a project of affordable housing that for the people that support our community here's a a very cute little
anecdotal story we love to walk and we walk up and down and and we have a firehouse down there on lower mat company and a firehouse right here do you know our our first responders don't live here they don't live here none of our first responders so forget about the people the waitresses and the bartenders
and all that those type of people but our first responders don't live here so we have a true need for affordable housing i've I've been to enough meetings down here that we talk a lot about affordable a lot of talk about affordable housing but here I am as a
developer willing to invest millions of dollars for one reason i want to figure out a way that our first responders can live in our community don't have to drive down here from homestead it's craziness that that we rely upon the people that that secure our safety in a
time of need like a hurricane they have to come from some area some other county to to get here so um we are we are homeowners we have lived here for a long time we understand the need it will be an unbelievable project my partner Al
Fernandez owns a company called Anf Construction and Development you guys should check that out he builds tens of thousands of apartments rental apartments over the tri county area we wouldn't be doing this unless we had a developer on our team it will be
unbelievable construction that will withstand the biggest storms that could throw our way it'll be a concrete block built 15 above 15 ft above for the for the flood purposes so we want to be great partner with the village uh we
think it's a a wonderful project and it's something that we truly need this affordable project so hopefully you guys will support us so we can get going on thank you so much for listening to me i applaud for not using the word those people i'm I'm sorry i applaud you for not using the term those people i I
don't I I can tell you speaking as somebody who's been dealing with affordable housing and creating it your mic's not I'm constantly hearing when somebody talks about well those people don't need homes what do you your pronouns are not your are not I don't know if I said that I apologize but
that's what I congratulate you referred to these people as homeowners oh absolutely responders human beings and frequently I hear the attitude of "Well those people don't need help." So thank you we have human beings here i I appreciate that and and and really what
my my first priority is what can we do for our first responders i mean the people that that that keep us all safe in this community uh how can we possibly uh get them to live in our community that would be our my my first priority yes sir well this may be a bit of a silly question but um you realize the
dilemma we have if this is a 300 early evacuation allocations we're talking about first responders we don't want them to be early evacuations so I'm just saying to live in our community excluded they're excluded so there there's an exemption for first responders they do not have to evacuate
right but but my my my point being is that just keeping our first responders here and that was a point I just wanted the record to show that that we recognize that these guys need to still be here yeah good thank you so much well and I know all
all of you had frustration over affordable housing and Michael said it we be talking about it we talked about it you know it looked like we almost had Woods Avenue done eight eight one-bedrooms um I talked to Habitat last week whether they would be interested in
coming back to the table with the village and they said no you know that that last little bit u kind of killed that one so that was the only other project I know other than whatever's going to happen up on um Plantation Key
with with the redevelopment of that hotel where they moved all the units down to Islander um and and I was expecting that would all be affordable but I I my understanding is that that's not going to be a one for one swap that that's going to be a different type of
project so I was assuming we'd have a significant uh you know single Yeah I thought we were going to have a lot of units and your statement of and not about this project and I understand that but that is why I think um a lot of
us um who consider these things get a bit well I'll just speak for myself I get a real suspect when I hear affordable housing not because I don't lot it as a goal but because I see it as a Trojan horse and so you you having just said that about that potential for
the creek side in which is what I'm assuming you're referring to it was told very definitively to this committee that it would be affordable housing and for that reason it did get a unanimous vote because they existed and were transferring it and it was going to be workforce so even then there were people
in the audience who talked about Trojan horses and that it would not absolutely would not happen if it was not 100% going to be affordable housing that leads me into more now a germaine question that I have based upon Cheryl's concern and I think Jennifer's concern
about the costs what worries me is you get into um and certainly the the the developers business acumen is far greater than mine and they certainly go into it with their eyes wide open and and but what worries me is when if in 5
to 10 years if insurance costs flood costs um citizens everything that we have seen happen over the past 2 years continues to happen at the same exponential rate this project doesn't pencil out and then are they going to be back asking to convert it to market housing
asking for subsidies because it would not if we continued to see the increase in costs in 5 to 10 years it would not pencil and and that is that is a legitimate and a fair question to ask because that is a that's always a
concern um you know the thing that we have in Alanada right now is we're still the fishbowl right we only have a certain number of units whether they're market rate whether they're transient whether they're deed restricted affordable or whether they're dorms we have a certain amount and they can't
come in they can't come out so you know if if the goal was to kind of sneak one by you've already got the zoning to put a hotel there and you and there's 12 units for sale right now that all all in a group you could move them over right
tomorrow we could you know move them over there um so I haven't heard anything other than this is going to be an affordable project and if you actually look at the site plan and the way it's set up I mean could you could you convert that the building into a
hotel i I suppose because it would be one bedroom one bath most of them and you can only have one ba full bathroom in a hotel unit that's what that's how you count a transient um but you've heard from the owner i mean if this be
an affordable project so and you know that that's in perpetuity to lots of people go on the record something in and that's why I wanted to say I it's not I I don't mean to to to link this to you or to this application but we're the only thing
before us is not to be honest with you is not your project we're looking at a a zoning change as to whether or not the 300 early outs can be built in a vzone that's the only thing that we have before us right now um appreciate everything else that's
been said today but that's that that's all we have the nice thing is that because it it does fall into the the 300 affordable early out program it it's pulling units out of that and so I'm I'm not sure how you would be able to
convert those over without some change in state statute that that gives me a little bit of comfort that it is what it is and it's going to stay what it says it's going to stay i mean like I said if they wanted to do a hotel there'd be a
lot of easier ways to do it this thing would already be under construction right now because we wouldn't be worrying about a Vzone um they could have started that project a long time ago as of right mhm well don't forget we got rap to consider and I twitch every time I say rap but I'm really against per don't forget all affordable in this
village is in perpetuity yes yes so I don't want to twist and say rap again but you didn't go to law school you're not going to appreciate the twitch you know when we talk about the the unicorn and we've all talked about the high construction cost and high land cost um Michael picked up the property in a
reasonable amount and because his partner is a developer construction owns a construction company we've kind of solved the the two barriers to being able to do an affordable housing project and actually make a little money doing it because you got the land right and you got a partner that can absorb those
costs as as a construction guy the only way it pencils Yeah well he you Well I don't know if you heard him he said the only way it pencled was because of those two things are there any deed restrictions that we could put on that that would lock it down for perpetuity it is in perpetuity
requires a period yes okay good i know habitat we have to do that i just want Yeah that's the requirement of the early out evacuations and one thing that and all early out evacuations have to be rentals right correct not one of the requirements yeah these these were very
specifically tailored targeted for your your workforce in the community and you know the frustration thing the frustrating part is we started this in 2018 we have 300 units and how many Jennifer do we have left 292 we're we're making
progress we've used eight so I mean this is a chance to take a a you know meaningful step and to and to say what we're going to say and do what we're going to we say we're going to do make a commitment to affordable housing and staff has approved this correct i mean the recommendation is approved our
recommendation is for approval of this yes yep and uh I'll leave this one other thing we're not asking for any government handouts this isn't a public private partnership this is a wholly private you know funded by by Michael and his partner Al there's no no ask to
the village for any of this so that's also a plus all right so I'm going to make a motion to um remove the restriction that we we have to vote on both of them separately and you have to do the um comp plan amendment first
right okay actually do D before C all right well they were put in the wrong order say pre see previous notes all right so I'm going to make a motion to um approve the amendment to the specific standards and requirements for
workforce affordable housing to remove the requirement uh that projects not be placed within a VE or within a coastal barrier resource system nick you might want to get specific like it says here
as as drafted it should be I'll second that okay any discussion nina will you call for a vote please do you second yes ma'am borant
yes james Ryan yes sh Comfort against my better judgment yes tony H yes cuz yes
motion passes 5 zero okay and then we will make a motion to amend policy 3.2 1.2 specific standards and requirements for workforce you just did that one sorry you just did that one so you're
doing C sorry i guess I need to move it up a little bit thank you that's what happens when I don't have paper okay here we go so I'll make a motion to amend section 30-476 building permit allocation
evaluation criteria and award the village code to remove the restriction that projects be not be placed in a VE zone or within the coastal barrier resource systems we'll second
any discussion see previous notes anita please call yes james Ry yes cheryl yes
tony Hammond yes and Susan Rford yes okay [Music] pass okay all right so now we'll go back to A and B i'm trying to get there i got to scroll
through like 800 pages here sorry that's all right so now we're back at the top yes now we're back at the top we're back at a Jennifer do you want to make your presentation um yeah do you have to read
the tiles for these no that's what I said i figured I think about that scroll in did you hear all the trees falling down no we don't because Oh Roger's going to read the tit for all these papers in here madam Chair I I'll just to read the items as a reminder the
comprehensive plan amendments must go first before the uh ordinance amending reszoning the property so this is an ordinance of Marada Village of Islands um considering the request of Tai Harris PA agent for Lebanon Family LLP to amend
the vill's future land use map from residential conservation RC to mixed use MU for the subject property at 76800 Overseas Highway located on lower Matakumbbe K with real estate number 00396950
0000200 as legally described herein providing for transmitt of this ordinance to the state department of commerce and providing for an effective date upon approval of this ordinance by the state department of commerce i will also now read the comprehensive plan or the um I apologize the ordinance
resoning um the property it is an ordinance of Isa Marada Village of Islands Florida considering the request of Ty Harris PA agent for Leeben family LLP to amend the official zoning map from native residential NR to neighborhood commercial NC for the
subject property at 76800 uh overseas highway located on Lower Madakumb Bay Ki with real estate number 00396950 00200 as legally legally described herein providing for transmitt of this ordinance to the state department of
commerce and providing for an effective date upon approval of this ordinance by the state department of commerce madame chair at this time I would also like to read a very quick quasi judicial statement regarding um item 7B um this is for the benefit of
the public and for for the board uh please go ahead please be advised that the following agenda item 7B is quasi judicial in nature if you wish to comment um on the item or uh please inform the village clerk by filling out the available signup form an opportunity
for persons to speak on each item will be made available after the applicant and staff have made their presentation on each item these proceedings will be handled in accordance with the village code requirements all testimony including public testimony and evidence will be under oath or affirmation additionally each person who gives
testimony may be subject to cross-examination if you do not wish to be either cross-examined or sworn your testimony will be given its due date weight the general public will not be permitted to cross-examine witnesses but the public may request that this board ask questions of staff or witnesses on
their behalf the full agenda packet of each item is hereby entered into the record along with the village code and the comprehensive plan any correspondence that was received by village staff is included in the pile part of the records persons representing organizations must present evidence of their authority to speak on behalf of
the organization all right all right thank you susan you have a question yeah I have a procedural question about quasi judicial because as as long as I've been attending andor sitting on this board we have not done an advisory committee as a quasi judicial since we are not the
decision-making body um has that changed under Florida law reszoning applications is quasi judicial but even in front of the LPA because correct even when I years ago made the point to the village that comp plans were legislative and not
quasi judicial the comp they they recognized that and and changed things I'm not suggesting it was because I made a stink about it but around that time other people were as well but they still didn't with respect to any advisory committee the requirements uh or the
sorry the prohibitions on expporte communications that apply to resonings go to from the council to any boards that represent the village okay fair enough thank you okay thank you um Okay so again these are companion items so if you're okay
we'll hear them or talk about them together yes so uh again we're here this evening for two ordinances both for the property at 76800 Overseas Highway um most of us know it as the tennis center or the tennis courts in lower Manakumbi
uh Ty Harris has submitted an application on behalf of the property owner L Leban Family LLP um to uh request the change from the future land use map as residential conservation to mixed use and from the zoning map amendment from native
residential to uh neighborhood commercial uh the applicant has submitted his needs analysis um in your packet and that explains his request and why he's doing so the subject property is currently um again native conserv
native con I'm sorry residential conservation future land use designation the property to the north is north south and west is designated conservation the properties to the east across overseas highway are designated mixed use and residential conservation the character
of the surrounding area is mixed use with residential uses and conservation uses the property is disturbed in the area that has been developed with the tennis center and the hammock surrounding disturbed and hammock surrounding disturbed area the applicant has submitted a vegetation survey and
habitat analysis on the undisturbed area that habitat analysis and survey is in your packet as well according to this survey the area is classified as high quality tropical hardwood hammock this property is not recognized as habitat to any federal state or federal state or
federal listed animal species a portion of the property is within the Florida forever boundary previously the village had expressed interest in including the entirety of the property on the Florida forever boundary list for acquisition and the property owner was not amendable to that idea pursuant to the village's
GIS data and records the parcel is identified as Hamick and Scarified the subject property currently has an existing native residential zoning district the property to the north and west are designated conservation the property to the south is designated native residential and the properties to
the east across overseas are designated towards commercial and native residential and again the character of the surrounding area is mixed use with residential uses and conservation uses i did an analysis um on both um items in your packet um and based on
that analysis I found that the um request does not uh meet the criteria of the uh either the comp plan amendment criteria or the zoning amendment criteria for and therefore I don't recommend that you approve this request
this evening um and I'm sure Tai has a lot to say about that i'm gonna get out of here this is my neighbor i'll see you thank you Jennifer great to see you hi guys thank you good evening Ty Harris again so much
like Sojurnn we have an interesting situation that's going to take a creative solution um as you all know the tennis center has been the tennis center before the village was the village and it was operating as a private club and
along its merry way um you know the village decided in its in its infinite wisdom to give it a residential zoning even though it was operating as a viable private tennis club which resulted in an RC and flume and an NR zoning the
problem there and I've never professed to be really good at math is that the property is 3.1 acres give or take a a little bit u the minimum size in that residential category is
four so right from the jump the village put them in a bad situation in fact uh under the Lucas standard uh it's a regulatory taking in my opinion now that's not the argument for tonight but
it's something to consider that right now there is no economic any economic viable use of the property zero you cannot walk in right now and reopen the tennis center because once it was closed for 360 days it lost its legal
non-conforming status and so the property needs to have a zoning that would allow the tennis center to come back um but also provide some alternatives that would um be
appropriate for lower Madakumbbe and I will be the first one to say when you take a look at everything on the list for neighborhood commercial most of those things are not appropriate for this property on lower Madakumbbe i think we can all agree we don't have to fight about that that this a gas station
in that location makes no sense um so Jennifer had asked me to provide uh a habitat and v surve survey which we did and it's not a requirement under the application but it was basically to ground truth what we we had looked at
the maps and understood that the only area that's appropriate for any use is the area that's already been developed that once you go beyond that you're in high quality hammock and you shouldn't be touching that and the first thing I will tell you is as a voluntary
condition of any type of change we would propose to put a a conservation easement over the entire area that's listed as hammock and it's delineated in that map so we already have a map we already know so you're what we're talking about is a
focus on the area that's already been built you know what do we do and um again these are the the uses that I think would be appropriate and that my client has agreed would be appropriate a tennis center surprise
surprise another you know private club um we believe the outdoor storage would be appropriate it's a passive use it's mailbox money um possibly affordable housing maybe not um that one's kind of
up for debate but after that on the list everything else that's on that list under neighborhood commercial probably not appropriate and it's it's things that we would agree to strike from the allowable uses and just focus on either passive use like storage or um or
another recreational type use like the the tennis club um but that's that's where we're at and I I believe that by offering the those whittling down that group down to those
two or three uses and also volunteering a conservation easement over the other part i believe we've satisfied and Jennifer can speak to this but I I in my opinion I think we've satisfied the comprehensive plan criteria that she's pointed out as the reason to recommend
denial and the zoning criteria uh that she's pointed out as a recommendation for denial um you know here's just you know not too hot off the pro but the uh the opinion that we all been waiting on from Shans and
this is not relying on Shans but if you if you look at the language in this um in this case you know they talk about um what your reasonable investment back expectations are what what what you should be allowed to do with the
property and they're citing cases that are cases I learned in law school pennsylvania Cole which is from 1922 and they're citing you know Lucas vers South Carolina Coastal Commission which was I think coming out right when I got out of law school and those are
those are United States Supreme Court cases you don't have to we don't have to look at at what happened with the Shance case to to get to an analysis of of what this thing looks like down the road if we don't give it a zoning that's appropriate because the the crux of the
argument is the village knew it was operating as a tennis center it was a commercial use of property they gave it a residential zoning that it could not possibly meet because it didn't actually have the acreage to meet it and just kind of hoped that as a legal non-conforming use that everything would
be fine and up until co it was fine and then it wasn't and now if I ask Jennifer Jennifer what could I do on that property today is there anything that I could do on that property today without a reasonzoning or a comprehensive plan amendment are you asking me that
question yes I am uh well you could acquire additional land but in the current configuration u it does not meet the density requirements to do anything right so there in lies the the the problem laid before this board and um and you all
have been very very good in the past with coming up with tailored solutions that make sense for certain properties I mean when we talked about sojurnn you remember the big list in in commercial fishing and the ultimate decision was look the value really isn't in the land
there's really no property left to put a building on so we don't need to worry about a restaurant or a bar or anything the real valuable the value there is in a docking facility that will accommodate commercial fishing boats that are already down there and that was the solution and everybody lived with it and
it was a a a very good solution to a problem so I'm asking for that same consideration here that we noodle what uses would be appropriate for this property and we we take away this potential issue of a regulatory taking
um if nothing happens i have a question yes um you said you were willing to put a conservation easement on the property absolutely okay that's start in the right direction um one of the things I would like to do Jennifer and John I need to know how to do this but what's
not in here have since I and I lived across the street from there and I played tennis there so I'm pretty familiar with the property but there's been a residence on that property for years that was used as employee housing whether the county recognizes it or not it's been there we need to be able to recognize that unit because whatever
happens there it would be nice to be able to keep what was an employee housing unit whatever that somebody decides to do down there that still solves one problem i' like that can go in a minute but that we need to start recognizing some of these units where people have lived for years um well
they're welcome to come in and do a dwelling unit determination to get it legally recognized well the I I'm ecstatic that you have chosen to go down the rec recreation and fitness section because I did come in during the chettes jennifer was kind
enough to walk me through what was there because I said "Can we keep that?" And apparently it's appropriate for fitness and recreation which comes up in here it's a club i know that there have been some there's been some private interest in maintaining it as a club but there's also been some other interest in creeping it for outdoor storage and I
there's also absolutely no public green space or any green space per se that we maintain as a community on lower mat um it would be an ideal location for somebody to take two tennis courts and make two pickle ball courts and keep a tennis court down there but it would
also be a great idea for this piece of property to have some storage space on it because it would be ideal and there may be more money in that but to take a section of that property and dedicate it in the whether you go conservation or not and dedicate that to green space for
the community there's no place in lower Madak to walk to you have to walk down the old road and when you get down there there's nothing really down there if you get to the north end east end whatever the hell in that is um it was suggested by one group of
people that they'd love to have a place to go that they could sit whether you had a shade structure whatever it is just a place to take your dogs let the kids ride to and if they could work that out to have somebody whether they put a tennis unit in whether they put a storage unit in or whether they put both
in that becomes a portion of a place that the people of Laura Madakumbi had a place to ride their bikes to and because it's on the old road they don't even have to hit the highway to get there so it it's ideal i think recreation fitness and storage is a minimal use i can tell
you traffic on that end of that island is a nightmare you don't want any more use in its head the traffic coming across the bridge and backing up there you don't need a lot of traffic going in there those two those two uses meet the traffic use and I I would vote to let those two
uses go to this piece of property and that's good usage of property it's also in a Vzone and it floods every time it rains good jimmy you live down there i do live down there i live right across the street from I know how much water
was out there all the time um so let me uh throw a little historical perspective into this um and this is purely a rumored story but those are the best when the Indian Key
massacre occurred Dr brian um daughter actually survived and she reports a story of of her dad going down the beach with her about a mile and then walking into
this oasis like area that actually had a freshwater the spring and when the massacre occurred Henry Prime's body portion of it was taken back to New York New Jersey wherever but also a portion of it was
buried in Laurakumbi i have been told that the area back on the back corner of the tennis courts was originally where that region was i don't know whether that's true or not but I also know that back in
that hammock there are three distinct at least three distinct sinkholes back in that area um when I was at University of Miami in the early 70s I was doing uh field study
on legus fasciatus which is the the tree snails we have 52 different varieties of tree snails here in South Florida um mainly now found in the Everglades and in North Kargo however there are some popping up in South Kargo there are
some also that have popped up apparently in Alamrada um and down in Lingman but supposedly the the species that's on lower Manacumbi have been deemed extinct and I
don't know if anybody has really done any in-depth research and all that's just backstory to me saying that hammock area certainly needs to be preserved and more study needs to be done other than a a a tree survey a
biological study for the case of this project that's a that's a significant hammock and it was if I remember correctly it was let me see pull this up real quick here um yeah it says according to survey or
the classified high quality tropical hardwood hammock the property is not recognized as habitat to any state or federal listed animal species i would question that but a portion of the property is within the Florida Forever boundary hugely important to me the the previous village has expressed interest
in including um the entirety of the property in the Florida forever boundary uh list and the property owner was not immunable to that idea pursuant to the village GS data the records and parcel defined as hammock and scarified so if
I'm understanding this they would be willing to do that with a hammock area at this point yeah it it's the way it was presented was you know we're interested in purchasing the property and I tell all my clients if you have any inclination of doing anything with
your property do not get on the Florida Forever list because they're not going to pay you anywhere near market rate i mean let's just step back to the Glenn property right 80 acres of property that
had been platted and the village paid 300,000 for it on 80 acres i mean that doesn't what's what's that going to look like for three acres i mean because that property has high quality hammock in
fact it has the best um that best 4 acres in the village of of high quality hammock with the title marshland that's a the the most valuable piece I would argue in the village is at the Glenn property um so people when they get those letters
about getting on Florida forever you just kind of shake your head because when you see a sale for 300,000 on 80 acres what's the point in engaging in conversation because that set the market for that you're not really going to going to make any money doing that or
get any of your money back from doing that so but at the same time we've got to kind of figure out a solution where the solution isn't the the state or the the village writing a check because they don't like what could possibly happen on
a piece of property i mean that's that's untenable going forward and this is the first stop along with staff to coming up with solutions that you know the the owner and the developer aren't going to get everything they want that's okay
we all can be prepared to be disappointed but at the same time they're entitled to a reasonable use of their property and so that's why this board's important is to start that conversation hopefully form that conversation so by the time it goes to
village council we've got a plan so the scarified part yes but the hammock part remains the I' I've already said our first thing would be after we get through the appeal period after second reading would to immediately put a
conservation easement on the portion identified as the hammock which is the why I went through the exercise and convince the trustee to let me hire a biologist to go put that together so we actually have where it needs to go and we're not just working off of the the
aerial maps and the maps that we have at the village we actually have a ground truth uh area that we can turn into a into a conservation ement so ty the guardianship is actually looking to sell the property is that correct yes yes okay so they're looking to see to to
obtain as much money from the parcel well yeah the trustee has an obligation to the trust and I this is not my area of law you know Susan's probably a little more up on this than I am but the obligation of the the trustee is to
maximize the assets for sale but you also have to take in account you know what's the flip side you go into litigation for two four years how much is that going to cost and at the end as we know in litigation there's no guarantee never know how it's going to
go so Jennifer we have we considered um the recreational zoning district zoning for that particular parcel because I read over it i mean a lot of these things would fit the criteria um a park a fitness or recreational facilities got
accessory uses or structures i mean we we could certainly consider that this was an application that came in by Mr harris so I mean we'd have to go back to his client and him and see if they would be willing to re redo their application for that purpose so my my
heartburn over that is that if if you know we're starting as the highest and best use being what it is now which is a private club there's only two zoning classifications that allow private clubs village center we're not in the village center or neighborhood commercial which
has a bunch of uses that don't fit which is why we just spent five minutes winnowing those down to what may or may not be appropriate um so you and you clearly stated that that the the club is now defunct right so it went out of business could they could they um after
this 360 days you mentioned could they reapply with a variance under No this is we've already Jennifer I went over that ground before I ever filed this application to see if we could just get back the the club you mentioned the owner was looking at you said there was three things I I remember tennis center
being one of them reopen right um but then you just said they're trying to sell it so I'm a little confused by that so so they would love to sell it you know with all the uses intact because that's going to generate the most money um you know in a sale but we're let
let's live in the world of reality right and that's why I mentioned I mentioned um what we did with the with the sojurnn property because in reality even though a bar and a restaurant were all allowed in commercial fishing we all knew when you looked at the map that there
wouldn't be any possible you there's no place to put a bar or a restaurant and that the real value was in a docking facility which this is the board that recommended that solution and they agreed with it so we're kind of in that same thing i think that I think it's a little
different here Ty well I mean how different the village the village knew that there was a a commercial use of the property and gave it a residential zone i don't think I don't think we're questioning that the property was originally zoned inaccurately right we don't think it was miszoneed well we
agree i don't know susan thinks it I think if it was acting as a tennis center I I could see that but it won't pet peeve of oh 20 years ago we made all sorts of mistakes and so we're going to go back to the county which is the exact reason why the village incorporated to get away from some of the county
recognizing legal non-conforming uses the question has now come up that because they did not operate and keep their doors open for a period of more than a year as a private club that's what's brought us here today right not a
reasonzoning not anything else because if that was the issue my answer which it very likely may still be is we're going through a comp plan process right now um we have been peacemealing comp plan issues for the last 20 years instead of
doing a comprehensive view as we should have been doing every seven years under state law so we're finally doing that and I'm real you know which puts my thumb on the no for not necessarily this application but almost you have to
really really convince me because I want a big picture strategic growth plan to be in place for the village so that we stop peacemail milling this now that said I appreciate the um um conservation um easement obviously
the restriction on the uses part of the frustration I think for this board is we show up and then all of a sudden and and this is not necessarily you but this is the last several years worth every time somebody shows up and staff has recommended denial all of a sudden or
they're getting some negative feedback all of a sudden all these concessions come out which staff hasn't had an opportunity to to look at what would their recommendation be with those in place we haven't had the ability to sit down with the documents and say after
review what would our decision be and instead we're asked to make an on the spot determination jennifer is put on the spot that has been a pattern in practice not just of tonight but going back for almost every applicant either before this board or before the village
that is starting to get negative feedback um and is a frustration because I think it leads to knee-jerk decisions so that's my soap box and I will now get off it i'll I'll I'll address that just in defense so one of the things is that you have to be very careful of contract
zoning and so so if Jennifer was to say well in her staff report if you did this and this no no that's not what I'm suggesting i'm suggesting the applicant can come and say listen I'm going to propose these as voluntary concessions
jennifer you didn't ask me for them nobody's asked me for them but what are your thoughts jennifer and I had already discussed the conservation easement which was part of the exercise of going through the the whole habitat veg study was to talk about only the you the part
of of the property that's already been developed whether it'd be appropriate to use it for something else and if that something else what what does that look like um on the the actual uses I didn't have an answer from the trustee until
today uh this afternoon on can I can I get up here and winnow down those uses to the things we're discussing now do I have permission to do that and I didn't have an answer to that because there are multiple recipients that there are three
children um that are going to be the beneficiaries of the trust so there's multiple discussions that have to happen for me to get up here and say without getting into trouble yeah um storage is okay and you know recreation's okay and
so is a private club and everybody can live with that because there's a there's a conversation that has to happen that doesn't involve me with other people before well you're also put on how like there would be how many affordable units would go on this because that was
affordable units were also on that list and that would be a lot of density on this property even on the scarified pardon me a lot of traffic too that's the problem I had with that well we've already kind of I thought moved away from the affordable um visa that was on your list for
voluntary concessions and we can't ask you for them we just went over that yeah yeah i think I think the the focus is on the storage recreational uses and a private club which were my three which were what I wanted which is where I was going to begin with those are that's not
what the motion just suggestion to take back what was told to me this afternoon here here's and here's what I would commit to you if somehow affordable came on the list and you voted on this
application based on my representations and then all of a sudden somebody says "Well Ty why did you take affordable off?" I I would voluntarily bring it back to LPA to have it revoted and take my punishment because I always try to
make sure that when I'm up here that I'm giving good information correct information and that the signals aren't crossed i never want to sit up here and tell you one thing and then find out oh well that's not I don't want to ever be accused of Trojan horsing let's just go that way that's all crocodile i live
here too i would be happier to see it stay under its current zoning and find an avenue for it to reopen as like like you mentioned the tennis center or something along those lines if that was the goal yeah see the problem is it can't stay under its existing
one of the first things you said was uh this is a special parcel that needs a special solution so I would I think there's the special solutions there i think what's in front of us it's I don't want to speak for them but for me it's it's it would be tough to it'd
be tough to go against staff's recommendation i understand so I just can I just clarify a couple things so you said that the three uses would be recreational facilities storage and then private membership club right so private
membership club in like a tennis center well no so our zoning defines I would argue defines that as like Marada Fishing Club as a private membership club which could lead to events and traffic and all kinds of things okay no
Ty let me speak ty let me speak let me speak right so we have recreational zoning that allows for recreation and fitness facilities which the tennis center would be a recreation and facil even though it's a private club it's a recreation and fitness facility which
would fall under that use category in my opinion do you not agree no I'm not saying that I don't agree um you know when I looked at it because it's a private club I looked at it from the sense of a private club and there's only two zoning classifications that allow
the private club but private recreation facility let's re let's rephrase that does the recreation private single family could be a private recreation facility honestly they need to figure out a way to if I can say this as a pastor I can anybody can think this but I'm thinking
okay when I hear a private club I'm thinking best over house in Texas and and and I think we're talking about recreational club and tennis etc pickle ball not the question is that if you're a recreational facility and and you have
a membership let's say more like Froggies work it out would would that still qualify maybe what we do is that's the recommendation so I don't have to come back here then I can go to my client if that's the
recommendation and amend the application without having to come back here you don't like my legal question would they have to come back to LPA if they amended the application to rec recreation i think that would be a brand new application death by a thousand cuts i have no problem proposing a
modification that we're discussing to go forward this which is what I was where I was i mean they can recommend the zoning change in this and you don't have to have a new application so recommend recreation fitness use as it currently stands in outdoor would just be the recommend
recreation zoning recreation zoning that's where the word is i'm working off this instead of neighborhood recreations but that doesn't allow storage but that doesn't allow outdoor storage i don't think it allows res outdoor storage single family residence
well now you're getting we're outside the categories yeah but that that unit was built in 1994 so was it built in 1994 with as a resident or as a Absolutely the I can tell you the tennis pro lived upstairs i'm not so let's ignore the residence for now because
they have not legally established that's what I'm saying about 1994 they would have to prove that there was a a unit there and it's not it's not really listed it's listed as a as a as a store do before we go any further down our rabbit hole do we have any public
comment ty you want to say anything i forgot no I mean I you know I'll zoom in yeah check zoo i just want to make sure we dot our eyes and cross our tees ju just to be clear
we are still in the applicant presentation but that's okay i'm good i'm sorry no I'm good with Susan's approach to it you can begin your presentation now this is Look I'm this is more collaborative than any other process that we have in the village where that's why I like LPA right
because we get to have these things is we get to noodle them and try to come up with a solution that makes everybody maybe not unhappy i think so but that's a good So so it still feels to me like you know the best approach is to take the category we have
now whittle that down to the two or three uses we're discussing so I don't have to go back and amend the application i think the application needs to be amended i'm sorry so but you want me to hear you but
if I'm in So I think we need a motion before we can have a But is Ty done with his presentation are you finished with your presentation i'm not done with my presentation only because there's one thing that I want to talk about so if I went to recreation then I lose storage and the thing that will actually pay the
bills is is storage and outdoor storage i mean that's mailbox money everybody loves mailbox money um and if there's a a a sweet solution here where there's two groups to get together and one wants to use a portion of the property for for
pickle ball and tennis but the money guy needs it needs to make money as storage and it can all work out i can't take storage off the table or we lose the money guy what do we is mix storage outdoor storage not in mixed use is that
where talking if we go with recreation so you're talking flum we're talking zoning zoning should be me back to where are we zoning it's not allowed in the recreational zoning but it is allowed in neighborhood commercial on properties that front on US1 but is recreation allowed in there too yes okay so that's
where we Well not recreation specifically it's either a gym or a private membership in recreational facilities but we can we can further narrow down the uses through a voluntary condition that we're talking
about recreational club as you know as in the section of the recreational portion we can we can narrow down club that's described herein yeah we can narrow down club it doesn't have to we don't want to have it where
it could be some other type of use if we turn it over to the community which eventually could happen and it could still be fine there the bottom line it could be recreation and a destination with they could put a cheeky there for a shade structure and a place a bicycle stand and whatever
they needed and on the other end of the property whoever wants to store whatever the story is my my understanding is that the the building itself is in really bad shape and probably needs to come down so you're probably if you're trying not to sink a ton of money into it but you
still want to you know have the courts is you're probably putting in a a cheeky hut for shade and um trying to avoid all of the things that come and the the million-doll cost for replacing the building because you're never going to get your money back out of that
so Todd do you need to um go back to the owners with with what we've talked about tonight or and and Jennifer would that be in what I'm what I'm getting ready to recommend is that we table this make a motion to table it
or do we can we move it forward i I can't I can't I do not have authority to take storage passive storage off the off the table because as I've tried to telegraph without saying it if there's if there's any ability to do both
projects the money is going to be the guy that's doing the storage who's going to make it happen and if you take storage off the list then he goes away and then we're probably not going anywhere
there's a certain sense of urgency for us to go forward a little bit on this because the owners of the property um you also have I know some of the family members and there's a sense of urgency
because the um one of the older members needs to be rid of this because she's moving into care okay so there's well the applicant was done on behalf of a guardian yeah so we the guardian has made it very clear that there's a bit of sense of urgency and if we could come up
with a solution this night today she would be greatly appreciative um I walked the property again last week and still have the bug bites on my leg
go with it but it's but the solution are there and just listening in the community I found these people that wanted to go down these two paths and they're not they're not incompatible uses they are perfectly good uses if we're talking about outdoor storage if
or put it you know but it can all be done and mixed and still not have a negative impact on the traffic which is my biggest concern because lower man is a nightmare with traffic and we don't need to dump anything else in there but somebody running in every once in a while to drop off whatever they're dropping in storage or somebody running
in to go play pickle ball or tennis or whatever it is that's not that kind of impact of traffic and it's what the community was used to prior to co so I don't see that as a bigger issue and I also see it as better use of the property versus sitting there waiting on
it to go do something else i think we've talked about the same things for the last 30 minutes and I think there's we're got enough people here with enough smarts to put this together to make a recommendation to a proposal that we could send to council and Tai can take to his clans to see if they can massage this thing we're all kind of talking
about the same things so what I'm hearing you say is is that this is this proposal as it stands does needs to be modified needs to be modified modified with the and Jimmy was trying to get there a minute ago i just think Yeah needs i think it's it's this property is
suited better for native residential or recreational that would be my those are my two zones that I think this property fits okay is that neighborhood commercial neighborhood commercial is a zoning and that that's what he's applying for okay i'm just making sure on behalf of an applicant so I don't
think that this property fits that description i think that that I I hate using this word i think that would be an up zone with the restrictions i don't want to do I I will not be making a motion with restrictions along those lines i would I don't have a problem with that at all that would not that's
not what I'm intending but I'm saying I agree with Jimmy that that is that is an ups what's in front of us is an application to go from native residential to neighborhood commercial is that the one we're doing first compan no you're doing the flum first flum
first okay so we have I I'm not sure maybe we're doing the flum first maybe it's residential to to mixed use mixed use okay some sort of residential to mixed use which really they're they're I don't want to say they're the same thing so future land use and then zoning but
they're companion yeah they're companion so and so I would say that no so whatever recreational went under but that's not what's in front of us and you can't I don't know if you could put a restriction to approve highway commercial with recreational they're two separate things so what's in front of us was is pretty clear and that's why we're
trying to take the the neighborhood commercial which would allow both storage and and a club and recreational uses and use that as the vessel to narrow this down to the appropriate uses i I know it's not a perfect solution but
there isn't a perfect solution if there was we wouldn't all be here convened on a Monday night and correct me if I'm wrong but any of those restrictions do they automatically lift in 30 years if not if the new property doesn't deed restrictions don't well so we wouldn't
do it as a deed restriction I do it in my least favorite thing in the world is the sub area policy that we have in our comprehensive plan um we would I guess have to create another one for this property which I'm not a huge fan of but seems that's the road you guys want to
go down so no some of you might want to go down but what I was going to say if that's the road you want to go down I would need more time to do that because I'm just getting hit with all of this tonight and I've not created that policy now yet and
I'm not ready to do that right now so we would need to t I appreciate the urgency on that part of the applicant but I'm not ready to rush through this we're going to recommend and they're going to take it to village council and everyone knows that listen I I respect this body
and I always feel better going with a recommendation of approval that's why I work hard i mean a lot of I I take I think the council listens to you all and I think that you've presented over the course of the last year or two some pretty thoughtful solutions to some
pretty sticky problems and they've gone with those for the most part at least the applications I've had experience with they've followed your recommendation so this is an important part of the process and if we need to continue it you know to the next meeting
to kind of work on a sub area policy I'll I'll do whatever you want because I really would prefer to for us to work it out here i I don't want to hash it out at council i'd rather have a solution here it's a much more collegial way of
of dealing with it and as fast as I know everybody wants to move along I'd rather have a vote of this board for approval than than not i think if the client wanted um Jennifer mentioned you know
that there's no recognized I guess single family residence there i think if you wanted to go along that route then you would try to keep this native residential if you wanted to proceed as it was as this tennis center it would be under the recreational um but I think
the what's in front of us is is not that right now correct me if I'm wrong we're on the flum first right mhm yes okay so that's the one that if we wanted to have recreation in there it would be neighborhood commercial no no okay which
one is it that falls under so both neighborhood commercial and recreation are in the mixeduse flum so if you're doing any of those two changes you would change the flum regardless okay so we change we change it to mixed use yes the zoning is either he's asked for
neighborhood commercial i suggested potentially recreation but again you guys are the voters we Jennifer what would you I guess you it wouldn't be smart for us to look at a mixed use approval and then not the neighborhood commercial
that would be well you could do any of the zoning districts within the mixed juice flum but I wouldn't want to change I wouldn't want to change the flum without recognizing that what zoning correct is that what you're asking me don't do one without the other I would I
would never ask you to do that because then it would be in conflict and it's a hotel surprise I think before we forget if we could just open up public comment and then close it we already did that okay perfect just
so if we were to if I were to propose a modified proposal I've got so many notes now i know um Cheryl are what are you i'm working off what you were started i'm happy to work
off of what I started okay you you go and you guys up no go ahead no go ahead Jimmy okay my motion would be to take staff's recommendation and and deny this application and for the first vote I would and I'm open to continue conversation in another
motion yet but I would second that now this is as to the comprehensive plan yes yes okay conversation like that okay so I'm happy to discuss it more but I just Well we have a motion on the floor so we
can we can open it for discussion before we're ready for vote does anyone have any comments cheryl does yeah I think that we're kicking a can down the road again when there's the solution is in front of us we've all said the same thing we think it needs to remain recreation and and potentially
storage which doesn't mean that those two things will be done and we've already had the discussion that we come up with mixed use in the flum but we have already done restrictions before when we did it down in lower map previously when we restricted what could be utilized where the working waterfront
is so I see no difference in this in keeping the uses similar to what's curly currently being utilized now do you mind if I comment on that yeah go ahead i would say that that was still within the requested zoning district you understand what I'm saying so if so we were we were
restricting within what the zoning that was being requested this we're talking about a completely new zoning that's why I asked we're talking about adding Yeah we're we're saying now we we're talking about this neighborhood commercial and recreational on that one we were just talking about I believe it was like a
maritime fishing fishing commercial fishing so we're not even in the same district right now zoning district but I would agree with you if they came forward with a recreational or recreation or native residential yeah I won't I won't do that because it takes storage out of it and
storage is what's going to pay for the tennis courts to be there unless I get a different direction but as of tonight I would not feel comfortable doing that but the only thing because we can't direct obviously what the applicant does the only
restrictions that he has other than what we read in our our basket was affordable housing private club recreation and storage and I'm not comfortable with those i'm not saying that I am adverse Cheryl to having a discussion subsequent
to the motion as to to provide some guidance as to what if it came in a different format or again to us would be approved or to provide the council some guidance as to what may have worked if something changes between now and the council um meeting with Mr harris and
his clients but right now I'm not comfortable with with the proposal because in part it's not doing what you're suggesting it does and we cannot force that on the applicant so here's here's I Jennifer had a good idea she's
like "Look why don't we defer let me get with her and work on we we I think we understand i don't think I'm gonna make Jim happy with whatever I do because storage is gonna have to be an an option to make any of this happen that's just
that's the the lay of the land so I'll work with Jennifer on a sub area policy that hopefully encapsulates at least three of you your your support um and bring it back so you're back to my my
suggestion that we table this yeah I I would I would like I said I I would rather lose our conservation ement right no well that's that's all I want to make sure of then they're not No no no sure i just think trying to hash it out right the second when everybody's trying to figure it all out and not everybody
understands i I enjoy making the sausage in front of everybody but sometimes you just get to a point where maybe we'll just take it and then you can check our homework and see if we got it halfway right at least three fists right but just as a point of order I we have a motion on the floor correct and do we
get a second correct it's We have a motion we did so someone either we either need to vote on it or it needs someone needs to withdraw jimmy do you want to withdraw i don't want to but if you I'll listen to you if four of you guys if all four of you guys want to withdraw I'll withdraw but I do not want
to withdraw no i'd like to keep it okay okay then I guess it's call for a vote nita let's let's read the let's read the motion one more time the motion is to uh deny the application as presented uh in
line with stat's recommendation i think that's pretty clear as to the comprehensive plan as to the comprehensive plan as plan okay which is the as presented correct there are no modifications right as presented so meaning that if we vote yes we're
denying it and then he Yes yes or is yes no yes this is a denial and if we deny it then he doesn't have an opportunity to come he you can either withdraw and then he can make a modification he can go to council with it denial right he can go to council with denial whereas otherwise
he makes if we all if we deny the motion if we deny Jimmy's motion then he have you can make your motion that he come back with it correct if we draw my second if his motion doesn't pass then I would vote to table it I still like you guys anyways
So now we have a we have a withdrawal of the second does anybody else feel inclined to um second Jimmy's motion what i thought Susan Susan Susan withdrew her second so now we are looking for a
second to Jimmy's motion so So should we not receive a second then the motion dies fails for lack of Yes okay it happens to the best of us i've got my motion
okay tony okay so Tony do you have a motion i I move that we postpone a decision on this until uh Mr harris has an opportunity to go back to his client and have conversation concerning uh the changes that we've
recommended we postpone to a date and time certain so we don't have to readvertise a date and time certain so we don't have to readvertise which will be June 2nd which we just made as our next meeting June 2nd okay so right it'll and it'll the motion
should include June 2nd at 5:30 in Founders Park Community Center is would there be the additional information at that time like sub area stuff that you Yeah we'll send that out like we normally do with your agenda packet but for so Mr harris doesn't have to repost and we don't have to readvertise we have
to include date time and place they think it's funny when I'm because half these sandwich boards by the way are 4 and 1/2 ft tall so I'm like carrying these things like this back up cuz I never get the small ones i always get stuck with the big ones all right let me just add one more
question i think everybody should be stuck with the big ones is Is there a way to do an LPA in May to move this along or do we need to to keep it at June 2nd would you have enough time to do that Ty would you have enough time to do the sub yes ma'am jennifer um I mean I can make
the time we'll make the I'll make the time it's It would technically be May 12th it'd be first week first week i think we're looking at first Monday it's just around the corner may be think May 5th may 5th code to May yeah i won't be
able to do it by May 5th and we have council on the 6th and the 8th so I'm going to say no i like the June date worked better for me the June date works better for you Ty okay june 2nd is that what still Oh I'm
not I'm not here June 2nd shoot sorry july i'm flying I'm flying back that day and I won't be here till late so we could do July if that Oh no i'm not here July either may
i'm not here July 7th either and I want to give a heads up i may I may have a conflict on June 2nd i don't know yet do you want to She's out anyway jennifer's out anyway can you do June 3rd can you Can you guys do a Tuesday
we can because we haven't advertised that meeting yet when was that Jennifer june 3rd a Tuesday can you do a Tuesday yeah we could do that i have Oh you have something well I have voices for Florida Keys every first Tuesday of every month but that starts at 4 um and we'll we'll
be done we'll I'll make it happen i'll I'll make it happen to be done by 5:30 i can do Tuesday because that way we can on June we can just move it to the third to the third okay sorry june 3rd june 3rd if that works does that refute you Ty i will yeah i
really appreciate everybody trying to keep it in June thanks are you good Ty as far as I know I am i'm still here and kicking so so June 3rd at 5:30 in Founders Park Community Center please add that to your motion all right Tony that is exactly my
motion and and that'll be a deferral of both 7 A and B and um I'll second that motion can we discuss can I ask you a question tony said whatever that was i second this motion we can discuss right um so at that time you're just hoping to
have a better idea of what No no no we're going to we're come with a fully formed until you guys tear it up sub area policy that encapsulates rec recreational passive you know club uses but also allows for
storage and those would be the only things that would be allowed and also the commitment to the conservation easement in writing and okay I just want to ask this I guess more procedural but you think that's best through the sub area policy not like deed restriction or
something susan makes a really good point you know you're always worried about deed restrictions falling off a property and you know if if you do it through the sub area policy it's not falling off the property understood so that's that's kind of the planners hate
it because we hate doing sub policies for one parcel but sometimes you're not really left with any option so you got to use the tools that you got in front of you and that would be the tool well complex uh parcels require uh creative solutions right yeah well that's why I like being with this board and why I
would rather keep working on it than you know going back going there with a halfbaked solution where I'm saying well I want this but LPA said this and it's just better if we kind of come up with something here it always is so they need to call we need to call
yeah yeah please call for a vote this is cheat table and Tony was the first yes and James the second yes ma'am tony Hammond yes james Fry yes
chill yes yes susan Raphael yes and Lorine yes motion passes 5 to zero thank you i really
appreciate it okay thank you yeah we have to do the counterpart too right oh yeah i move to table the zoning request um from tonight to June 3rd at 5:30 at Founders Park at Founders Park
Community any discussion anita please call or vote it's a second [Music] yes sh
yes tony Hman yes jeep Fry yes and Boring Lan yes thank you i appreciate it hey maybe the traffic's dissipated now that we've been in here long enough i got a quarter you
want to put some money on do we have any other items for discussion who's um my only question no Lord i just thought of this who's our may this could it could be a whole new LPA staggered terms so right now I can answer your question to
that is is that you and I um stay on and and Cheryl stays on and then the the um Susan and Tony and um Patrick Foley are um actually reapplying so they've actually all expressed interest
so but the council's going to make a decision on at their May meeting on their meeting six I think it is so we may have some new We're going to at least have one new member for sure guaranteed to have one new member but we we might end up with four new members
okay thank you all right nothing else meeting motion to adjourn second thank you everyone vote by leaving