e e e e e e e e e e
e e hi everybody I just want to thank you all we're going to get started in a few minutes but if you could all just sign in if you haven't signed in and then we'll get started in just a couple minutes okay thank you yes Ma I'm re constru
so they can they can can go they go to BC [Music] so is I'm just is
like two minutes like Tak it in front of the coun e [Music] way I de [Music] okay can I ask everyone to take a seat
and we're going to get [Music] started there'll be time to chat later thank you everyone thank you so much for all coming to our uh building permit allocation system Community Workshop also known as bass so we will
uh talk a little bit about what that means and what the goal of tonight is in a minute um before we get there though I'd like to just do some introductions of the staff that are around the room that might be um helping tonight with tonight's uh uh Workshop uh for those of you who don't know me my name is
Jennifer dorrian I'm the planning director for the village of Isa marada um also in the room this evening is our village manager Rob Cole in the back um he's new to the Village so but he's doing an amazing job so welcome and thank you uh we have Daniel parabo who
is our senior environmental planner and Village biologist we have Robert Mather who is our review engineer we have reine uh Charles Bowser who is our principal planner and we have Anita mxo who is our Planning and Zoning technician so these
are our lovely planning staff members along with a couple others who weren't able to make it this evening who will be working the workshop with us this evening so we're going to get going we have a an agenda that was on the table uh up there for you to have a copy of but I just uh we're going to we just did
a welcome and introduction we're going to do a brief presentation some time for Q&A we'll do some Round Table discussions which we'll talk about in a little bit we'll have a short break uh we do have some food we'll put out for you guys in a little bit um and then we're going to do some report back to
the bigger group and some final Q&A and then we'll talk about next steps and where do we go from here and what all this means in the bigger picture of Isa marada so building permit allocation one thing I will ask is if you keep your questions till the Q&A that would be
super helpful um we did put in front of you a index card and a pen so that would be helpful for you to write down your questions so I'm not expecting you to remember everything um the building permit allocation system or Bass I'll probably call it bass throughout the presentation just because it's easier to remember um
this is division 30 of 30-4 d11 of the village code and what this basically is is how do we allocate building permits for residential and non-residential development this conversation tonight is mostly going to focus on residential
development uh the reason being is we have right now plenty of non-residential bass square footage we don't have and I'll get to that in a minute but we don't have any allocations for residential development other than
affordable housing at the moment so the conversation tonight is going to focus on residential development so the purpose and intent of the building perm allocation system and this is directly from the code is to facilitate implementation of the goals objectives and policies step forth in
the comprehensive plan to regulate the rate of growth in order to further DET deter deterioration of public facilities service levels environmental degradation and potential land use conflicts and encourage Redevelopment of residential and
non-residential development and to encourage affordable housing building permits in the village are allocated in accordance with the schedule that is outlined in the comprehensive plan and permits are allocated quarterly by The Village Council and perit are scored based on
14p point criteria that is also outlined in the code under that section division 30-41 of the code so the way it works is somebody applies for a building permit they go through the process of review through the building department and once
the permit is approved they then have to apply for a bass applic they have to put in a bass application and that goes to the planning department that gets scored the application gets scored and then ranked on a list you've probably heard talks about bass list which is available
on our website and you get ranked one through however many applications we have on the list and then as we have allocations we make recommendations to the council as to where those allocations should be given and so that's how allocations have been given
out in the past in the village so just some general background on how we got where we are today um in 1972 um the area of critical State oh that should say concern I apologize program was adopted by the state of
Florida um in 1979 the Florida legislature designated the Florida Keys as an area of critical State concern and in 1992 Monroe County adopted a rate of growth organ ordinance also called rogo and at that time is
Rado was part of Monroe County and then in 2002 after Island Mara Incorporated we adopted a b pass ordinance with an original number of 30 302 allocations to be given out and then in 2012 the Department of
Economic Opportunity which is now the Department of Commerce completed hurricane evacuation clearance time modeling and found that 10 years worth of building permits the Florida Keys would be add a 24-hour evacuation clearance So based on that the Deo determined that the remaining
allocations countywide would be 3550 and out of those Isam Mara received an additional 263 which brought Isam Mara's total to about 565 and then in 2017 The Village also entered into a what's called a 380
agreement with the Department of Environmental opport or to Department of Economic Opportunity Monroe County and the cities of Qs Leighton and marathon in which the village received an additional 10.25 allocations and what that was is that
the city of Key West wanted to build um some affordable housing outside of their jurisdictional boundaries and in order to do that they had to offer something up to the rest of Monroe County and the other cities and that was additional um
allocations and out of that marada received 10.25 allocations I know 0.25 sounds a little weird but um in some of those cities they utilize 0.25 allocation for points and different things so we don't do that
here Mara but that's um how that happened okay next slide so this uh reflects sort of our current Vass situation here in Island marada um currently we have three market rate allocations available those are three that are from the Key West uh 380
agreement we have 10 affordable allocations available and we have 300 early evacuation affordable allocations available those evacu early evacuation oford allocations were made uh available by the state with additional rate
restrictions and requirements for additional evacuation early evacuation times than the rest of the allocations so they have specific restrictions on them uh when somebody wants to apply for those and be used we have we received 300 we have not issued 300 yet at a pre
a meeting previous this year the Village Council reserved I believe it was 165 for village Village use um so we have 165 sitting in a bank for Village use um we have 23 administrative relief allocations and what those are is when
somebody has allocated a permit but then doesn't pick it up and pay for it after so many days that goes back into the pool of administrative relief and can be allocated for administrative relief in order to qualify for administrative relief you have to be on the B pass list
for four annual allocation Peri periods which roughly equates to 4 years uh you have to be on the list for roughly four years and then you can apply for administrative relief and the council May Grant you the permit they may offer to buy your property or there's a
catchall phrase that they may do something else but we have yet to figure out what that something else is so um that's we have 23 of those left and we have 54 permits in the queue are on the bass list
right now the Village Council has adopted a temporary moratorium on market rate bass applications that will expire in February of 2025 So currently no new bass applications can be submitted to the Village um until at the earliest
February of 2025 uh The Village Council has decided that you know we wanted to take a pause on accepting new applications so we could have these conversations so we could study where we're at and fig figure out the best course forward and
so they adopted this moratorium um it was originally to expire um this coming month and in August they did an extension for an additional six months so it will expire in February of 2025 they have a second reading on their
agenda for August 8th 2024 for a temporary moratorium on administrative relief applications that they've already voted a approved first reading on um that will be on for second reading next week for similarly same reasons to do a study on
the administrative relief applications to see what the best path forward is for those applications as well so we're looking to have these conversations we're having ongoing conversations about bass administrative relief affordable housing we've also
gone out to uh RFP for an update to our comprehensive plan in the village um we're bringing the proposals and a recommendation for a consultant to the Council next week as well and we're hoping to kick that project off in the next few weeks um and that will also
help this conversation move forward as well so we have a lot going on in the planning World in Isa marada and these moratoriums are certainly giving us some breathing room to help help that process so that's the the current bass situation here in is
Mara all right so in 2023 the Department of Commerce which again was the former L the Deo and the division of Emergency Management ran an updated hurricane evaluation model based on the 2020 census and other relevant data that they used you may have seen they did some
local meetings they had some surveys they did some stuff um mostly last summer um into last fall and then last winter I believe it was they submitted a uh final report uh of their findings and this clearance time summary
came out of that and this is what um I'm going to this column right here the second one I'm sorry the second one in that says Florida Keys including Key West mobile homes in Phase One this is the column
that has been officially adopted by the Florida legislature in the last legis legislative session um under this new evacuation model so this is the column that um everybody is sort of looking at
now um when they did the report all these other columns were potentially in play and each Community was asked like how do you want to see us look at these evacuation times and I believe it was pretty much unanimous across the county
that you know obviously we should include Key West they have to evacuate like the rest of us and you know we should includ Mo include mobile homes in Phase One evacuation so the state agreed and these are the evacuation times that we're looking at right here for the
updated modeling um I know that people who have seen this chart before uh look at this right here and get concerned um so just to update you on this a little bit this was an original number that came from I
don't know how many years ago when the state asked the county how many vacant Lots there were and there was something like almost 8,000 vacant Lots in the county we have since done um some analysis we have done our own analysis the county has done additional analysis
and that number has shrunk dramatically based on several factors which I'll go into in a minute so I would um think that this scenario five if if it were one unit for vacant lot this number is is highly exaggerated just to keep everybody in the loop on that so um so
moving forward um as I was just saying we recently undertook a v vacant parcel analysis um using the following criteria uh we looked at residential zoning districts um and that the parcel size must meet the minimum square foot for
residential lot size and that the parcel is vacant according to the Monroe County property air appraiser date as of 2020 um an initial review of that in Isa marada prod produced 212 parcels and then we did a secondary review and we
removed some of the anomalies such as if it were already on the bass list um and other certain anomalies and then that reduced that number to 178 so staff is continuing to look at this list and ways to reduce the number
of vacant parcel liability but for now uh 178 is roughly the number that we're using as vacant Parcels that are not currently on the bass list that potentially could uh need an Al or want an allocation I shouldn't say need want
an allocation all right so rogo B pass as you may remember in a previous Slide the morone county uses the phrase rate of growth ordinance we use bass so that's why it's rogo bass questions uh the entire conversation is
being led by Mono County they've been doing surveys you've probably seen some of those come through your email or your social media feeds uh they're also doing you know inperson Workshop like these and conversations uh at the board of county commissioner meetings um those are being
led by Kimberly Matthews and uh the planing Department over at M County in order to inform their conversation Isa marada has decided to do this to have local conversations to do our own local
surveys to get the feel for what we as a village would like to let the county know what we would be looking for if anything um you know sometimes our voice might get lost in a bigger County conversation so this is important for us to hear have
our voice heard um we already sent out one survey um middle of July um and was more of a demographic survey to get the feel for who's out there who's listening to our surveys and how they want the information received uh we're getting
ready to send a second survey out with some more in-depth conver uh questions on Thursday so look for that on the social media feeds and then this is our first um Workshop that you know is to give you sort of some basic information and to start the conversation and then
we're going to have a second one um I believe it's sometime in August to dial down on some of the information that we hear from this survey and from this meeting uh the board of County Commissioners will uh like to make a decision at their meeting in
December and we would like to provide in put uh to them at that meeting and so we would need to have a report to the Village Council for its October meeting in order to do that so this is sort of a quickened shortened timeline and that's why everything is like coming at you
super fast meetings surveys but we're trying to get all this information to the council so that they can make a a decision on how to proceed uh giving the county their the information that they need and just some of the questions to think about when you start talking in
your smaller groups and generally over the course of the next couple weeks the questions that we would like to look to answer is do we want more allocations yes or no if yes how many and what kind market rate affordable both so those are
just some of the general questions that we're we're going to be thinking about we want you to be thinking about um and that's sort of where we're at so next steps for tonight will be some general questions on the presentation or just feedback in general we're going to have
a breakout session I know some people don't like to speak in larger groups with a microphone it can be intimidating so that's why you're sitting at a small table um it just ask one person to be the recorder for the group there's a legal pad in front of you if someone could take notes for the group and then
we're going to report back later um you know it's it's an open flowing conversation we want everybody to have an opportunity to say what they feel or what they I don't want anybody to feel like they don't have an opportunity so you know if you're not feeling like you're hurt at your table
there's some empty seats feel free to get up and move around and choose a different table as well so um we're going to start with um can one of the staff grab the wiress mic so that we can uh see if you have a question about the presentation or in general comment and
you want to raise your hand we'll call on you I would just ask that you try to keep it to like 3 four or five minutes so that we let everybody have a a turn to speak yes when Daniel gets it working we're going to let Elina go first thank you Jennifer Alina Davis I
haven't heard anything discussed about our infrastructure you know when we talk about bass and more market rate allocations or affordables we need to carry the water we need to carry the sewer can the roads carry us are any of
those issues being outlined is there any concern about those issues absolutely yes those are being considered in the bigger picture and we'll probably be part of the conversation at the second Workshop this one I wanted to get more of like the
general what is bass conversation out there because there are people that come to all the council meetings and know what be passes and how are in the know but there are also people that don't um this meeting is being streamed live it's going to be recorded so there will be opportunity for people to understand
these questions questions so I wanted to see this meeting to focus on that um the survey that's coming out on Thursday will have some of those questions in there for people to express you know what are you most concerned about as far as infrastructure where do you think we need to focus our concerns on so look
for that in the survey and then the second Workshop we'll have much more in-depth conversations about that I'm van Caden head and I was here when the uh caring capacity study from Rog County was delivered uh years
ago and it was discovered at at that time that we had been overbuilt for a number of years and all these years later that that report was put up on the on the shelf and allowed to gather dust and uh to me it's it's almost to
the point of ridiculousness that we're still talking about getting thousands of new be passed permits for this County we are overbuilt we've been overbuilt our infrastructure can't handle what we have
now and uh it's my contention that we should not ask for any more permits either market rate or affordable because they've they've given us 300 uh affordable from the state and we don't have room for them we don't have a place
to put them and so uh what we're doing tonight is uh an exercise in futility in my opinion because we simply don't have the space we have too many people in too smallest space as it is and any building that takes place any construction should
be Redevelopment by our construction companies not new development because I don't want to see another hammock uh scarified to put up another house because we've had way too much of that and we have too little left of Isam marada as it is so so I would uh you
know I'm I'm the voice of uh no more progress we've had too much progress thanks to the TDC and our our property values have gone from in uh ADV valorum terms from 1.1 billion at incorporation to 6.5
billion now that's just obscene that's appalling that's that's unsustainable and and the people who live here especially the ones that that don't have homesteaded properties are paying the price so I say
uh slow this mustang down thank you very much thank you stay here because it's your question so of the properties that are available still how many of those are high quality hammocks and I'm assuming that the high
quality hammock couldn't be touched no matter what is that is that accurate um I'm not I'm not sure exactly how many are high quality hammock um there's a few on the bottom of the BS list that have hammock in general um but I don't
think it's a significant portion of the vacant lots that the 178 is yeah we're still dialing down the the environmental numbers on the 178 so I don't know that Daniel has that full number for you probably by the second Workshop we'll have some of those answers for you um
but you can probably answer the question about what can be touched and one can't be touched the regular rules of development apply and high quality hammock if it's a smaller lot it's not really economically developable so good thank you for this opportunity um
Tai Harris 110 Plantation Shores Drive so I think one of the fundamental questions that this group and the village have to answer is what's the strategy behind taking addition bass allocations if we know that we're
at capacity with our infrastructure is it to keep what we call the Event Horizon from happening meaning that we don't end up in a situation where we Face takings claims and we just slow play these out over 30 years or is is
the goal to actually have allocations that are really meant for development because it seems to me that if you parse these out very slow slowly you never actually hit the point where we we facing uh regulatory takings because
there's no more allocations so I think one of the fundamental questions is are we doing this so we can play the long game or we are we really talking about new development um that's just to me kind of the fundamental first question thank
you anyone else have any general questions comments can you explain to me the uh early outs and how is it enforced and is that counted in the hurricane evacuation or are we just pretending like all those
people are going to go out early I mean CU I don't think they're going to so yes so those are um required to leave 72 hours prior to so there's uh required to be an on-site property
manager and each of deed there's supposed to be a deed restriction in each one of the units or property that requires that they leave 72 hours prior and that they're one of these early out evacuation units I understand the concern that you know a lot of things
get put in deed restrictions that may or may not get En forced but once it's in a deed restriction if it's not getting done and we know about it we can then kick people out of their homes or tell the property owner you know you're not following the the requirements and
remove the the allocation or there's there's things that you can and can't do you know we haven't issued any of them yet we haven't done any of the deed restrictions we haven't put any of that language in I don't want to speak on behalf of legal because I'm not a lawyer but I'm sure there are things that we can and can do in that regard um what
was the other part of your question I'm sorry going that because these are the people that are putting up everybody else's shs and and so Ian after Hurricane is over I mean the hricane evacuation thing
we can't that right 1969 and is unbelievable the road put any cars on this road and these two cars well I think that I think that is part of the conversation I think if
you look back to the um this sheet as I said before you know the 24 hours was the maximum evacuation period but if you look at the the the chart here Baseline is 24 hours but there really is
no other than minimal allocation down here there really is no other uh 24 hour evacuation so the that's the question right do we want to ask the legislature to increase the evacuation times um how do we want to do
that that's one of the questions that we need to ask ourselves that's a matter of I don't disree yeah yeah no I agree and I think part of your question I remember now is what were those counted in the hurricane
modeling d uh Deo did consider those as part of the hurricane modeling but because they would be evacuating prior to the storm that's how they are not impacted anyone else have a general
question oh okay all right so we're g to uh move on to the next section which is the breakout session um if you're at a table with just two people that's fine if you want to stay there if you want to group up with some more people that's fine too um again if you could just have
one person be the recorder write down some thoughts some of the questions that we just talked about some thoughts generally about allocations hurricane evaluation any of the things that we talked about um staff's will'll be walking around if you have questions if you want some clarification on some
stuff um feel free to reach out ask we'll be happy to help with that so we're going to put some food out on the side table so as you're doing this if you want to get up and grab the sandwich and some fruit we'll be putting that stuff out for you too so um yeah we got to get the mic cuz we're streaming live
so we have one more question in the front here everybody knows there's a traffic problem everybody except the County Commission which has recently refused to accept the 2023
traffic recount um and have declined to update it this year and may not update it next year you don't need a traffic study you're you're used to the bumper the
bumper effects uh it affects everybody of all inclinations and all all Persuasions the reason that they and by the way for those you who don't know me I have all these documents and I I read them all a couple times and I'm an engineer
by training the three segments of the traffic count that was submitted and was not officially accepted rated the three Alam marada
segments as service Level D which by state law and regulation means no Reserve capacity if they had accepted it those regulations would have required that they stop issuing development
permits unless a developer could prove that they were going to do something to reduce the traffic impacts I'd like to know what they're smoking when they thought they could do that um but that's
why because it would have required him to face the reality that we in the upper kees suffer the most uh and um you should also know that the presentation that Kimberly Matthews is
doing which I have observed personally is to be the most charitable seriously misleading example she openly declares
that the threat of takings lawsuit losses will exceed a billion doar okay at the recent County Commission meeting when citizens raised this the County Attorney admitted that
that was a bogus figure that represents not the couple thousand remaining buildable Lots but all 8,000 plus of the platted lots that are on the on the record and that it was done to leverage the state into giving us more money to
to to buy sensitive lands and so forth and it should not be used in public presentations it scares the crap out of everybody who hears that she also said although there have only been five taking casing losses so far and she
stated that that those guys all got 200 million bucks and that justifies the billion dollar calculation well the fact is that's what they asked for that's not what they got they they got couch change compared to those original asks there's simply no
record uh of those taking cases for lots of legal reasons my lawyers if they have in the past will are updating the legal presentation that will site cases and so forth they said that's just not how land
use law Works um the dreaded uh uh Harris there's only been a couple of Harris losses not thousands um if if people bought property after critical concern was
declared there were public notice that we're not going to have enough permits for everybody and we're going to run out someday um so hardly inocent bystanders there are cases to be made for various considerations um um and we wouldn't
have when I was elected to the school board I was the official designate to the affordable housing Workforce housing task force um and there are a lot of things we could have done and didn't do
alas uh and still some of the stuff in play that's designated for affordable housing isn't really designated 100% mandatory affordable housing development interests always carve out a big chunk of Market rates to
justify subsidizing affordable stuff a little bit or entitling themselves to government grants uh and and so forth so there's a lot more to this the citizens interests are underserved and particularly for those of who've been here a long time like a lot of people in
this room you know how much of this crap is enough the Citizens need to be heard because the state has clearly Commerce has clearly riged on all of their legal past responsibilities um and they just they
don't want any part of of the liabilities and what they should do and what I'm suggesting officially in the legal correspondence that's that's being generated presently is that okay how about just funding a
couple of top-notch land use lawyers to help us defend against taking claims and then you won't have to spend hundreds of millions of dollars buying property send us some some kicking state lawyers
thank you oh apparently we have a rebuttal since I am the only land use attorney in the office and I am a kick-ass land use attorney I will tell you that the reason that you don't see that many cases because most of them settle before there's ever trial U
you're required in Florida to file a demand letter and at that point the municipality evaluates the claim and that typically leads in most cases to a settlement and that's why you don't see a lot of cases actually go to trial
where there's a a a reported case and typically those would be third DCA cases but the last one there was didn't turn out well for Monroe County that's the shans V Monroe County case and if you want to get a chill down your spine read
that opinion it's not good for local governments okay so we're going to break out now um again Ask one person to do some reporting just have a general conversation about um the topics that we've been discussing let's all try to keep it
friendly and have a nice time um we'll probably uh give you about a half an hour to have this conversation again we're going to put some food out so once that goes out feel free to get up and have some dinner
away you for e for got think of for for for one and
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suain okay we're got about one more minute and then we're going to report back so grab some food for your table take a bathroom break get up and stretch go visit your friends at the
next table any of those things that's [Music] years all right if I could get everybody back uh paying attention okay okay everyone so
hopefully hello get his attention so hopefully that was a productive conversation at everyone's table hopefully you learned a lot from each other and you had some great ideas um so what I'm going to ask now is that
one person from the table um just maybe give a couple brief sentences or thoughts from your table um about where you think that this conversation could go for the village we're going to collect the um notes uh from your table
so um don't get rid of them don't please don't take them home um that's very important data for us to review uh throughout this process so please um don't get rid of those um for the end of the night so uh we're going to start with this big group right here that I
think was like three tables combined um I don't know is it Mr Horton or Mr Harris or who's going to do the reporting oh oh we need the mic whenever someone has a minute I think Ty
thank you Jennifer um so our group believes that the village to take as many allocations as they as they can that doesn't mean that you need to use them but not having that flexibility 20 30 years down the road um
just limits your options we also believe that the folks that are on the bass list should be able to get a permit in a reasonable amount of time they paid their money they're in the system and they need to be taken care of we also
think that as part of this strategy that we need to go ahead and fix the trdr ordinance because we have allocations that are out there that are already counted in the traffic numbers that are not being able to be moved around and what we're seeing is uh a rapid increase
in the price of those building rights so if we ever do hit a takings lawsuit uh you're looking at the value of the property in the value of the building right which last summer was $200,000 and now was getting closer to
$500,000 so that just adds more injury and more misery to to the whole process we also discussed that a lot of the traffic issues that we see in is marada are really u a symptom of pass through traffic that's going to the large number
of vacation rentals in Marathon or going down to Key West so so not quite sure how we would address that but our table feels that most of those traffic issues are not generated by Alam Mara did I miss
anything okay that's us thank you thank you so then the table behind there who's your spokesperson did you pick one so we discussed the difference between
affordable and Workforce housing because really what is the difference the difference is Workforce housing a certain percentage of their income has to come from Monroe County so affordable housing they can live in Monroe County but they can work
anywhere they want correct or be retired correct okay so on affordables like wet net we're supposed to get as I understand because I had some friends that live by
in the woods Avenue project and so they're supposed to have some sort of review annual review to make sure that they still are affordable that are living there yes is there a system in place for that there
is now there uh we had a consultant That was supposed to be working on that and that was sort of falling through the cracks for while uh the planning department has taken on that role and um this summer has sent out letters to all those people and we're we've given them
a c I forget Donita did you know the date off the top of your head when they're due back so they're due back September 1st and we'll be checking those and then we'll be working with legal for all of those that have not responded okay um
some of us prefer no more allocations and some of us are of the do we kick the can down the road do we offer one market rate permit a year and does the state we talked about takings does
the state not have any liability as part of this takings claims because the state and it's a partnership between the state and the village so I would part of that liability not come from the state yeah I
don't believe that's been determined yet um at the next Workshop I'm going to hopefully have somebody from legal present to have some of those questions answered regarding uh those takings liabilities okay and then um as we talk about evacuation perhaps something that should
be considered and it probably should have been considered a while back that any new government or say a school building or the fire station that was built brand new should those not be cat five shelters so we can shelter in place you
know I mean we know that not everybody is going to get out of here let's just face it it's just the facts so those are the items that we T discussed thank
you um we'll we'll start we'll go up front here I don't know who from the front tables thanks um so we had a nice conversation um and thank you for the presentation um one of the first we we were thinking about this conversation in terms of how
to gain more participation in the process and one of the things can we be respectful of everybody please they were respectful of you excuse me in the back so so one of the things we were hoping for was um to to get more people
involved in this conversation is to have a an even simpler explanation of this topic and what bass is and um because I know that the people in this room live and breathe this stuff but I think a lot of people don't but it's absolutely important for for their own livelihood
so we're hoping for a like I don't I mean probably it's hard for you since you're an expert but an even like Anyway super simple um explanation of the of the subject um and then a really simple like graphic about the numbers that we
have how many permits how many um are we currently working on and and as you did you Pro you provided how many um what what are we dealing with how many lots are open so then then we got into um a good conversation about how to answer this question of what do we want and we
were saying how do you answer that question unless you are are unless unless we are all talking about the same consequences like and the impacts so um to get sort of a a universal answer
we were hoping to have information about um a realistic hurricane evacuation um the the consequences of buildout would be infrastructure and what that means um what would the Imp the environmental impact be um if we built everything out
what would the cost of a realistic cost of takings be um a conversation about property rights I think I think a lot of us I mean myself included don't don't really understand what that means and then also an analysis of what of of the
daily the traffic situation um so then um then with that information we could say well what do we want and what what we were thinking about at this table is can we ask you know the question was do you want affordable or
market and we said maybe there's something else we could ask for which is um uh what we're calling like Workforce Apartments so that we and I think Judy used the terms we increase density and height by changing code and I don't know
getting creative and having the village help support this so that all of a sudden we can um we can bring affordable living space to our community to support this amazing place did I miss anything so so I think that last point is can we
can we bring another option forward because what we're doing is asking a question with with terms that we've always been using but maybe as Judy really sort of suggested can we broaden can we can we make up a new a new category and and um maybe say we want
something else that we don't have currently which I think is pretty cool all right anything else I well the one thing is that we should let more of the public participate well we we are definitely letting I mean this would I mean that this is just Workshop one you
know give us a break here and in to that regard I'm open to suggestions on how to get additional people to [Music] participate it is it is on Zoom but it's difficult in a setting like this to have
zoom participation um when you have small group work it's very difficult to have zoom participation but it is be it is viewable by Zoom this evening it's oh I apologize it's streamed on the website YouTube and yes it is on YouTube Frank isn't
it an thank you okay thank you I apologize thank you one of thank you I was unaware of those technical difficulties go ahead okay so at our
table we got we got into a discussion about uh market rate and affordable and and uh doing um what could be called the the fair and the right thing for the people who are on the list they've been on the list for a long time they've been
trying to follow the rules and um that that segment of the allocations needs to be considered uh as a um more of a priority than somebody who wasn't on the list
even though that we've put a moratorium in place um they didn't the the the the other segment of the population didn't take the initiative to go ahead and try to do something uh we also got into discussion of how we ended up with so
many on the list and not enough but that's that's just the way it happened uh we also talked about uh that we we do it's it's kind of on your category of discussion uh we would like to see some
more affordable but to to restrict RCT it more to essential workers in some fashion because the 300 uh units out uh those those are it's not very easy for them to be the police and the fire
because we need them here later than the 300 out it will allow so uh there needs to be another group that can stay longer but it needs to be affordable and the definition for affordable on the stuff
that we have today isn't truly affordable to most of the working so we need to and the density idea is a way to do that as long as everybody understands that okay you have to compact things in order to make that happen um and we had
a discussion a short discussion also on property rights and that um there you know the if if you take the um what' you say7 or something like that and subtract what's on the list you come up with
around 120 that was already subtracted what was on the list oh okay arm mistake on that but either way um those people need to be qualified in some way they they they bought a piece
of land it depends on when they bought the piece of land and what they want to do but they did buy a piece of land and and either something has to be bought they need to be able to build that something needs to happen and that's the
difficult question just did I miss anything out of our group did I get it I just to answer that little piece of it um we in part of our analysis we are doing some uh beneficial use determinations on those lots you know because some of them do have
opportunities like some of are on tavano uh where you don't need to have a principal structure you can do a accessory structure a hanger on the airport some are owned by h Jo that have no build abil buildability um so there are some beneficial use determinations
being looked at at the moment so we are undertaking that so this this group didn't discuss it but I would I would also suggest that maybe something needs to be looked at is um in the appropriate places residential lots being able to do
um commercial activity of some sort um in appropriate places not in neighborhoods there are there are lots that's long us one and stuff that's a conversation for a different workshop I'll just shut up at that point
did you you you're good okay um and then I heard a question over here how many responses to the first survey we had 388 responses to the first survey so not not the best responses but it's better than
24 that are in the room tonight so no that's how many people responded to the survey we use Survey Monkey and they calculate all the people that respond some people were able to submit emails if they wanted future notifications I don't remember how many
actually submitted emails but the total number of responses was 388 surve yes yeah and and we had the first question I don't know if anybody took the survey but the first question was do you live in Island marad if you answered no you were kicked out so
[Laughter] so did you have another question or he he he denied he declined he uh was a table of one and didn't want to end all right so uh before I move on to next steps does
anybody want to add anything else that your group covered that you didn't feel get expressed or any additional questions or comments yes well yep after van
well Van's got the microphone so let van go yeah we and we do need the mic because it is being streamed so um at this table we decided that uh affordable housing was not $2500 a month which is
where uh the net the wet net is now and that was supposed to be affordable housing back in the days when they made the deal for the abandonment of Delon Avenue and I think uh one of the problems that we've had is with the
Habitat for Humanity which is insisted up to now on building three tws which you're talking about $2,500 a month that's not true well well well that's that's true in that's true in the wet
net but the the uh I understand that but but the the things that were built across from the OV are not one ons one ones are what is required for our Workforce and
affordable uh single and couples uh that work in the tourist industry and the bar industry and the hotels and whatnot um we're not uh uh turning loose uh from the village we had an
opportunity at at meeting before last to have 811s built by Habitat for Humanity they finally turned around and said we'll do this on gardinia and for some reason uh the the uh discussion got moved down the
road to a larger project in another place and this we could already have 811s under construction if we had just made a decisive move at that point and that's what I don't understand why we didn't do that I don't understand why we don't make uh it a priority that any
land that we give any public land we give to anyone especially Habitat for Humanity you know they should be trying to help us not to make money on a 32 which you know a lot of that I I realize
that not all of their projects are that some have been a mix you know of of other things but one ones are what we need that's what we should be looking for to to assist the Working Class People people of Isa marada you know you
can't have a bus boy or a waitress or someone who works in the the hotel and restaurant industry pay $2,500 a month it's just not feasible that's not affordable housing all right we well okay well I I
I think I've made that you know concession that they they're not all that but every time we give away public property for a affordable housing it should be for one ones to address our
problem not 32s to satisfy uh whatever Financial uh uh priority the Builder has here's the mic thank you van all right I think Carla and Don had something to add okay um I had a question but after
Van's comment I'm on the board of directors for Habitat for Humanity and so is Tony Hammond um the business model for habitat is to provide housing for families and that's why we build 3 twos
we as habitat in the Upper Keys have been allowed an acception by the international organization to do some rentals so that's why we do the rentals but the business model is to get that nurse and firefighter husband and their
two kids in a home that are going to live here work here raise their family and be part of the community it is a affordable a section of affordable that is needed in the community and then to your point as well
yes we do also need the workforce and that's where my question comes in you had made the comment Elizabeth from your table about um rentals and I thought the 300 that we got um from the state were um the early out
the 72-hour early out but didn't they have to be built in multiples and they have to be rentals they can't be homesteaded yeah they're they're rentals and they have to be in at least uh two or more so and then also have a property manager and make sure that they do the
early out and they monitor the income and everything else so I think we already have those allocations right the 300 what we were talking is is of enion a model where we about
height andity in the smalles it's something we don't do right now there's no okay so we have the 300 but you're talking about the way to build those 300 is to to compact them in okay that's what that was my question I just want an explanation for for that okay talking
about you the possibility of of having that Poss subsidized by our village you know to be is something we don't do now but it could but the rest of the world does you know they have depart okay Don so years we've talked
about this issue that van brought up um we've talked about uh building one ones we've talked about making it Workforce housing and not quote unquote affordable housing um for years I've talked to the Village hierarchy about uh uh forming
some type of private public partners ship which has failed to happen at this point and we continue to whack a mole and talk about what we need and what we want but we don't take that step forward to make that happen and that's something we need to do we need to take a look at
our permit fees we need to take a look at our impact fees we need to take a look at our sewer assessment fees when it comes to affordable housing units um and because the the cost of construction alone is is extremely difficult but you
when you spend six figures in order to get yourself through the system just to be able to get a building permit you start taking away the affordability of that affordable housing um unit and and that's exactly what it cost in order to
build a forel you you you are spending six figures with sewer assessment and permit fees and all of the other requirements and the duplicative duplicative requirements that are out there in order to get your way through the system so we need to think
uh we need to think really inside the box of how we're going to help these affordable housing units um that's that's one issue another issue we talk we talked about was our infrastructure um I could tell you that I personally had a meeting with the aqueduct and and
although our pipe is 50 years old and it certainly doesn't have the the materials and the protection uh that it that the new piping is going to have um we they have right now the ability as long as the pipe can hold up it's a 50-year old
pipe but as long as it can it can certainly handle a lot more flow and it can handle a lot more uh pressure so I don't think we have a problem with that um as far as our traffic that we all hate our traffic is not because of
alamana our traffic is because cities like Marathon have like 2,499 more transient uses than Isam has alamada did exactly like we're doing
tonight and we were very proud back in the day when when the chamber got together and the Realtors got together and the hotel years got together and the citizens of alamada came together and had meetings and came up with what our
number should be on our transient uses we thought way ahead of way in advance and we've never filled all of those transient licenses that we currently have um so we didn't hurt the hotel years and certainly the chamber was at
that point given the mandate to get more heads and beds in alamada and now we're complaining about the heads that we wanted to have back then so are we a victim of our own success well I think more than anything we're a victim that Marathon didn't think is far out of the
boxes we did and has allowed 2,499 more more transing uses to happen just south of us so on the Thursday and Friday and the Saturday and Sunday we're putting up with people driving through our town in order to get to Marathon and
even down to Key West so I think we need to start thinking about how we can take at least some of our internal traffic off of the highway and and and create some type of dependable and timely Inter
City Transport for the folks that live here and get used to that there's a lot of ways to do that but I think that's going to be helpful great thank you I think Deb has something Rob if you want to bring so I was going to comment on the
fact that a lot of 32s were built and habitats um program for families is perfect for 32s and some of the other stuff that was built was 32 was because the state and the federal
government gave subsidies and if you built two TW or two ones you got one figure and if you built three twos you got more to help you build it and here in the keys you look for all the money you can find it's it's what Don was
referring to it is very very difficult to build those affordable units and so you look for any of the money you can find and so you make three twos um the 32s can be turned into you know bedrooms they can share apartments and
and make it more of an apartment atmosphere and stuff in certain locations um but the the the the feds in the states aren't helping the fact that y 32s got built um it is it is known
that the smaller most people don't want to share Apartments these days and the old days we all lived with everybody it was one great big happy family you know there's houses that had 20 people in it in today's world many people want their
own space their own house their own car their own garage their own space on the road um and so it's that's that's where we stand so I just wanted to get out there the federals and the state government um give subsidies for 32s
that are much more money than it's almost double compared to the two twos or used to be at least thank you okay so uh just a couple housekeeping things before we go to next steps um again don't get rid of your notes we're going to collect those also
um on the note cards in front of you if you have additional ideas that weren't captured or you thought of something while people were talking and you want to fill those out um you can leave those on the table as well we'll collect those as well obviously the more information we have we better
um my um contact information is here I also in the back on the back table behind Anita put some business cards um feel free to take that um email me give me a call I'm happy to answer any questions um so uh back to next steps so
again as I mentioned earlier survey on Thursday August 1st the second survey will drop uh please look for that um sometime Thursday it might not be first thing in the morning cuz we're still flushing out all the questions but um
we'll drop definitely on Thursday um then we will uh let that run for two weeks we will then collect all that information we'll look at this information we'll synthesize what we have we will put together a second Workshop sometime in um I was just
looking at the calendar while people were talking it looks like it's probably going to be somewhere around the last week of August based on the budget cycle and uh the county election primary election that's happening um on the 20th um and when we can have this room
available to us so um look for that we'll start posting that as soon as we have a date set for that um and then um after that you know we're going to see if we need to have more workshops or if we have what we think we need and we'll make some updates to the council at
their meetings and hopefully bring a final report back to them in October um again we have a bunch of planning stuff happening in our department if you go to our planning department web page there's a project timeline uh Gant chart that shows all the ongoing projects and discussions and
their their timelines feel free to take a look at those if you have any questions or you want to be part of those discussions we're happy to have you please participate more participation the better the discussions are so thank you for attending tonight I hope it was beneficial I hope you enjoyed it and uh again if you have any
questions we're here so thank you [Music] you e for