talk about. Are you getting any I pledge allegiance to the flag of the United States of America and to the republic for which it stands, one nation under God, indivisible, liberty and justice for All right, everybody. Welcome to the
April 20th Jackson Township Planning Board meeting. This meeting has been uh properly noticed in all the proper uh forums and locations pursuant to the O open public meetings act. Uh and I will leave it up to Madam Chair War.
>> Good evening. Roll call, please. Mr. Brezzy >> here. Mr. Marzo >> here. >> Mr. Heler. >> Mr. Parks >> here. >> Mr. Rogers >> here. >> Miss Santoro >> here. >> Mr. Tremor >> here. >> Mr. Weart.
>> Mr. Sullivan. >> Dr. Campbell >> here. Uh, a um motion for payment of voucher for the recording secretary for this meeting. Please. >> Moved. >> Second. >> Roll call. >> Mr. Brezie. >> Yes. >> Mr. Marzo.
>> Yes. >> Mr. Parks. >> Yes. >> Mr. Rogers. >> Yes. >> Miss Santoro. >> Yes. >> Mr. Tmer. >> Yes. >> Dr. Campbell. >> Yes. >> Oh, we have one resolution this evening. >> Yes. Resolution
2026-09 of the Planning Board of the Township of Jackson, County of Ocean, State of New Jersey, granting minor subdivision approval with required variances for single family dwelling use for Arya Yellen, also known as 789 Toms River
Road, block 180, I'm sorry, 18701, lot 40. All members are eligible to vote. >> Roll call, please. >> We need a first. We need a motion. Motion. >> Oh, motion. Sorry. >> Motion. >> Second. Need a second. >> Second.
>> Thank you, >> Mr. Brazzy. >> Yes. >> Mr. Marzo? >> Yes. >> Mr. Parks? >> Yes. >> Mr. Rogers? >> Yes. >> Miss Santoro? >> Yes. >> Mr. Tremer? >> Yes. >> Dr. Camp? >> Yes. >> We have a change to the agenda schedule.
Lock 5902, lot 53, Brookwood Enterprises LLC, will be carried from tonight uh to July 6th uh with waved time and no further notice.
Correct. >> Correct. >> That is correct. >> Good. All right. We We'll take a motion on that, please. >> Make a motion. >> Second, >> Mr. Brezie. >> Yes. >> Mr. Marzo. Yes, >> Mr. Parks. >> Yes,
>> Mr. Rogers. >> Yes, >> Miss Santoro. >> Yes, >> Mr. Tmer. >> Yes. >> And Dr. Ke. >> Yes. >> Uh, Mr. Peters. Any engineering we need to discuss? >> Uh, planning from you. Engineering, Mr. Cle.
>> Okay. And, uh, from our attorney? >> Not at this time. >> All right. Okay. We will then move to block 19703, lot 29.
Miss Jennings. >> Good evening. No, I don't think it's on. Oh, that one's working. Good evening. For the record, I'm Donna Jennings from the law firm of Wen Goldman and Spitzer. on behalf of the applicant. As the board is aware, the
applicant is seeking preliminary and final major site plan approval and related bulk variances and design waiverss to construct an approximately 31,43 square foot private high school on property located at 49 Grand Boulevard
and identified as block 19703, lot 29 on the township's tax map. The property consists of approximately 5.87 87 acres and is located in the RG2 regional growth zone where secondary schools are a permitted use. The applicant also
intends for the school's rabbi to reside in the existing dwelling on the property constitutes a permitted accessory use to a secondary school in the RG2 zone under ordinance section 244-90B2. The applicant is requesting two bulk
variances from ordinance section 244 attachment one and ordinance section 244-90E1B with respect to the maximum number of wall signs permitted where one is permitted and two are proposed and locating a secondary school on a local
road where same is prohibited. The applicant is also requesting one design waiver from ordinance section 244-196A with respect to the minimum number of loading spaces where one is required and none are proposed. In support of the application, the applicant will rely on
the testimony of the following witnesses. Ellie Halper, the applicant's engineer, sitting to my left, Shimone Greenbound, the applicant's architect, John Ray, the applicant's traffic engineer, and Christine Capone, the applicant's professional planner. For the record,
the applicants received the following review letters. Traffic safety unit review letter dated January 20th, 2026. The board engineer review letter dated March 11th, 2026. Fire prevention dated September 29th,
2025. Environmental commission, April 14th, 2026. And the board planner review letter dated April 6, 2026. With that, we'd like to have our first witness sworn. And we can begin. Please raise your right hand. Do you swear or affirm the tell the truth, the
whole truth, and nothing but the truth? >> I do. >> Please state your name and spell your last for the record. >> Eric Halpert. Her t licensed professional engineer and planner in the state of New Jersey. These plans were prepared under my supervision and I have appeared before this board >> a few times. >> A few times.
>> Multiple times. >> We accept your credentials. Thank you. >> Thank you. >> Thank you. And if you could, Mr. Halbird. Um, describe the existing site conditions and if you're going to rely on any exhibits, please identify them for the record. >> Anthony, can you please pull up the
exhibit titled 49 Grand Exhibit Set? >> Thank you. The a this um exhibit will be marked A1, please. The exhibit is an exhibit depicting an aerial of the property and the surrounding areas. The property is
located on Grand Boulevard on the southwesterly side of Grand of of Grand Boulevard. The shaded blue area is the property currently improved with a single family
dwelling and a driveway and a well. The applicant is proposing to keep the existing dwelling, modify the driveway slightly as will be discussed in the site plan and construct a school
and will be discussed in further detail. The property is located in the in the Pinelands and the property is a 5.87 acre property. There is water in front of the property that is available to the applicant and
the applicant does not have sewer available and the applicant is proposing to service the site with an on-site septic system. The property is located in the Peland in the RG2 zone where schools are
permitted. I will go through the operations of the school. The applicant is proposing to construct a school, a high school consisting of
120 students with 12 staff members, which includes teachers and administrative staff. The operations of the school will continue from Sunday through Friday. Typical arrival and departing times are
7:45 a.m. students arrive and the students depart two groups for different grades at 9:00 p.m. and 10 p.m. respectively except on Fridays when all students depart at 12:30 p.m.
The majority of the students will be transported by bus. Approximately 10% will be dropped off. Students will receive meals and there is a kitchen and the septic system has been
sized for students with food preparation. Additionally, the operations include a basketball court. The school year runs from September to July with a break in August. There additionally are
two week breaks throughout two two week breaks for religious holidays as well as approximately 8 to 10 other days that are off throughout the year. The applicant will be responsible for the maintenance of the parking area,
landscaping, the storm water system, lighting and utilities. The applicant will be providing um weekly trash hauling and approx that will be approximately uh two
times a week would suffice for the operations of the school. As mentioned previously, the existing residence will be used as a faculty residence associated accessory to the school.
>> And just um Mr. Dr. Halber, could you just confirm for the record that the students will not be allowed to drive to the site that those that don't take the bus are being dropped off by parents? >> The the students being dropped off are being dropped off by parents. The school is not allowing students to drive
themselves. Anthony, could you please um go to the supplemental set to the site plan? And can you zoom in? Can you zoom into this area? Uh you you could zoom out a little bit
more. Thank you. Uh, could you zoom out a little bit more? I'm sorry. The applicant Thank you. Thank you, Anthony. The applicant is proposing to construct a two-story school consisting of
a little bit over 31,000 square ft of gross floor area. The architect will go through the interior of the building. The applicant is proposing um in a revised submission with one two driveways for access to the
site. One driveway will serve as ingress and one drive will serve as as egress. The applicant is providing a loading area. The main entrance to the school is to the rear of the building. The busing will be
following will be circulating in a clockwise manner in order to be able to drop off the children directly to the school without crossing over any drive aisles. A one-way access drive is provided
to the east to the left of the page to the east and a one-way drive aisle is provided as well for exiting. This way there are no conflicts with any other cars. The applicant will provide a
parking calculation demonstrating that the required parking is 152 parking spaces. The applicant is proposing um 145 parking spaces with EVs credit um
greater than 152 parking spaces. The residence will driveway is being proposed to be modified where currently the residence is served by a circular
U-shaped driveway as as shown on this plan. The portion of the driveway that is on the easterly side of the of the residence will be closed and only one
access point will be usable for the residents with parking sufficient for the residents. The applicant is proposing a loading area for buses sufficient to accommodate four buses as per the ordinance for this
number of class of for this school size this number of class of these this number of classrooms. Operationally, it would be anticipated that the school would be using two buses for their student body. That currently
numbers 100. The the the um application is to provide for up to 120 students with the same number of classes and two buses should be sufficient. >> Sorry. Yeah, I'll go to that. There is a refuge location located to
the rear of the building. As mentioned previously, this will be serviced by a private hauler and there will be a location for recyclables and for solid waste. The applicant is providing a storm water
management. Could you move up in the zoom out a little bit more to capture the storm water basin at the top of the page? The applicant is is proposing storm water management facilities consisting both of surface basin and underground
basin. That's not shown on this sheet. I'll go through the grading and drainage sheet as well. Anthony, could you go back to please the exhibit set to the second page? The set. Thank Yes. The set and the
second second sheet. The previous sheets. The applicant is is proposing landscaping including a buffer area with screening. A large portion of the property is
currently wooded and a portion of the property as shown in gray is proposed with no improvements and the wooded area is going to remain. The portion of the property where the improvements are being proposed will be provided with
landscaping buffering and will be coordinated with the township forester. This application received a certificate of filing from the Pinelands Commission as required by ordinance in order to file the
application with the township and be deemed complete. This included uh an this included documentation that the on-site septic system is sufficient and to comply with
Pineland's management um requirements of maintaining two parts per million of the nitrate and the septic system is an amphidrome septic system
servicing the 120 students the 12 um staff members for the duration of the school year with the days off. There are no summer programs proposed. The certificate of filing did include
comments regarding storm water management which will be addressed as a condition of approval. Some of those comments have been partially addressed with the township submitt which was following the Pineland submitt and any inconsistencies
noted in the Pineland certificate of filing will need to be will be addressed as a condition of approval. The inconsistencies noted were regarding storm water management. Pineland's certificate of filing did not
indicate any wetlands or threaten an endangered species. And in the Pinelands certificate of filing process, the lack of any indication of any comments regarding wetlands or threatened endangered species is an indication is a
determination by the Pinelands that there is no wetlands or threatened endangered species affecting the property. The property is in the conservation overlay zone. There is a portion of the property that is within
the special 600 ft Toms River corridor and it is therefore within the um conservation zone on the Jackson Township zoning map. >> May I ask a question for sure >> about orders of operation?
I think this is the first time we have seen a school uh with a kitchen. Uh usually there has been um uh deliveries uh and not a a working kitchen. So uh
will you stipulate that this will not be used as a banquet hall or for rentals? >> Yes, the applicant would be willing to have that stipulated. >> Appreciate that. Thank you. Anthony, could you go to the um full set
that is called It's a full site plan set 49 grand plan set revised 081125 Five. Thank you. Could you go please to the
fourth sheet of the set? This is the grading drainage utility sheet. Could you zoom in a little bit slightly? This plan depicts the storm water management facilities as well as the on-site septic system,
the amphidrome septic system. This is the surface basin. There is as well a re a underground system. I'm sorry, Anthony, could you please uh zoom out a little bit more? I guess you could keep it full to the full sheet
would be would be just as easy. The applicant has submitted um for water for for tentative water approval to the Jackson MUA and received water approval to connect to the um public water system. The public sewer system that is
in front of the property does not have the capacity and the Jackson MUA did not provide an approval for a connection to the public source system and has provided an approval for and has provided an approval for uh
utilizing an on-site system. The applicant has received approval for the on-site sewage system from the Jackson MUA and from the Pineelands as part of the certificate of filing process and the last step the submission to the
board of health has been submitted and the applicant has not yet received the comments from the board of health. >> I think Mr. Brezie has a question. >> I have a question that sir. Um I understand they don't have flow. I know there a pump station right on a corner of Grand Roman.
have um I know all the lines right in front of you and say they don't have flow. My question is their future for our future whatever if the MUA comes up with flow and can let you hook up would you stipulate at that point you would hook up to them
>> the applicant would would stipulate that they would be willing to connect the applicant would desire to connect and an application had been made to connect. I I understand totally because they have a flow problem, but I know they're also working on that. When they're going to address it, I have no idea. >> There is no capacity. There are plans
for the future, >> right? I have one other question. Maybe it's just me. My plan of that picture shows one double driveway coming in and out. The picture you showed us earlier has the double >> correct. I'm Yes. So, to to clear up the
confusion, the the applicant made a supplemental submission. The original submission had one driveway and that is up on the screen now. The uh the supplemental submission provided for two driveways due to comments from both the
board planner and the um traffic safety and that is what go that is what the applicant is working with. >> Thank you. >> The supplemental submission. >> I'd like to go through some of the board. Anthony, could you please um just
keep up the supplemental set sheet that we were previously working with? Thank you. I'd like to go through some of the comments. the the app the um this is um the board planners letter dated April 6th.
The property is located within the conservation zone overlay. As mentioned previously, it is located within the conservation zone overlay. Um because a portion of the property is located within the Tom's River corridor,
the application has received the certificate of filing from the Pineelands Commission indicating that there are no wetlands on site. a portion of the there is a portion of the site which is located within the Tom's River
corridor. Anthony, could you go to the um 49 exhibit set you should have open? No, 40. The first set that you owe 49 exhibit set the last sheet.
This is an overlay of the Tom's River corridor. This is a special corridor established by the Pinelands Commission approximately 20 years ago. And a portion of our site does fall within the Tom's River corridor. and the Pineelands
Commission would have would be providing any comments regarding any activities and any clearing within that area which would not be allowed. >> Just for the record, was that identified as exhibit A3?
Do you know >> this will be identified as exhibit A3? >> The landscape exhibit was exhibit A2 and this will be exhibit A3. an overlay of the Tom's River corridor buffer. >> And could you just explain what the
yellow dotted lines are on the plan? >> The the yellow as as uh the legend indicates the yellow dotted line is the buffer, the 600 foot buffer, which is the largest buffer in the nation um um for a for an environmental feature. Um
and a portion of the property, the westerly portion of the property is within that and the pinelands um the the pinelands would not allow any clearing in that area. >> And then the uh large yellow is where
the actual wetlands are depicted on the plan. Correct. >> Correct. Yes, >> Madam Chair, can I ask one? >> Absolutely, Mr. >> Um the um or the um certificate of filing from the um pylons commission, did it call out um any inconsistencies
um um with the uh quarter buffer? The it it did not. The inconsistencies called out within the Peland certificate of filing were regarding stormwater management comments. >> And if there was an issue with your proposed development, um
>> they would call out >> much similarly to wetlands. Similar wetlands, they would call out >> similar to wetlands. Any Yes. similar to wetlands. >> Okay. Thank you. >> Thank you. regarding um comment uh number two in
the um site plan issues. Um are you able to go please Anthony? Um thank you. Um could you please go back to the supplemental set? Uh, could you zoom and zoom into this area? Uh, zoom out a little bit more.
The Thank you. 24446F7A requires a loading area separated from the main vehicular flow. Loading and unloading should provide pedestrian access directly to the school. The
applicant is proposing handicapped uh three spaces including two handicapped spaces on the other side of the loading. I do believe this would be consistent uh with the ordinance because the students do have direct access. This is
not the main vehicular traffic. However, the applicant could relocate though. I do believe that that that that would be consistent with the ordinance and that is why the plan is showing it that way. The applicant does have the ability to relocate those spaces
there. A environmental impact statement was submitted. There is a reference to a minor subdivision. The applicant is not intending to subdivide the property. This is one uh the the property will remain as one property 5.87 acre with
the school and the residence as a faculty residence all on one property. The architect will provide testimony regarding um the architect plan.
uh the planner will discuss the variance for the signs and our the traffic expert will go through the waiverss for traffic. I'll just point out the plans have been
revised to address certain comments of traffic safety and of the board uh of the previous letter provided by the board planner. Two comments. Access sufficient for a bus to enter
without conflicting with vehicular traffic as well as a separate egress access for the buses. Excuse me. You you previously testified that you were looking at clockwise. Um that's
counterclockwise. That's counterclockwise making a left and coming around the building. It's clockwise would be making a right. The >> so which way are the buses going? >> The circulation is following these arrows. >> Yeah. >> Where the bus drivers on the left is on
the outer part portion. The bus door is open and the students have direct access. >> So it's counterclockwise, not clockwise. >> It's clockwise. >> Okay. All right. I see. All right. Thank you. >> The circulation is happening is happening that
>> and this I was confused by the arrow on the right on the bottom. They're coming out. This is the buses go in, >> go along the loading area, students come out, and the buses continue. >> Yeah, Mr. Halpert, I I think the chairman was saying,
so you've arranged it so that the students will not have to cross the drive aisle. >> Correct. >> Students and the right hand side of the bus will be closest to the sidewalk and to the building. >> Yes, that's how it's been arranged.
Who goes to the right? The people just parking there or parents? Who? >> What? What? What? What section of the right? >> Well, you you have an arrow on the bottom. >> This is for the bus is exiting. >> Yeah, I see that on the bottom of the
plan. Right in front of those uh 10 parking spaces. >> There's That's it. That arrow. >> This area. This area. >> Who's using that? Who's going on that direction? The these are meant for these are meant for staff members to park >> just parking. And is that staff only
parking there? I'm just worried about parents. I'm I'm foreseeing parents coming in and making a right that they might want signage there that says staff parking only. >> Yeah. And that's not a problem. We would certainly do that because the intent is have all the children coming in through
the back entrance. That's the main entrance is in the rear. I'm not worried about the buses and where the students go because I know the students are on the buses and they're going to stay there. I'm worried about the parents coming in and making that right. So, I think you need signage there that says
staff only. >> The applicant will provide signage. >> Thank you. >> We do condition approval. >> I I think you might have the wrong exhibit up. >> Oh, that may be a problem. that I think there was originally it was two
driveways then you condense it to one. >> No, >> we we we originally submitted with um with uh one driveway. There was a comment from traffic safety regarding confl traffic safety and from um Ernie
and we and we um changed it to >> Okay. I just want to make sure. >> And and the the single driveway was changed for the house, >> correct? >> From a double driveway to a single driveway. >> It was a U driveway and now it's no longer a driveway, just one single
>> entrance. Egress. >> And I'll go through that to make sure it's clear. Anthony, could you Yeah. Could you um slide over so we could capture the tribal servicing the property? So this is uh
yeah could you yeah uh don't you don't have to zoom in the uh um driveway servicing the property would be ingress egress for the school those are these two this is ingress egress
for the residents for the faculty residents in the proposed conditions they would be on the far side away from the egress would be a single point of access for the faculty residents. There currently are two points of access and
there is a note to close up one of the points. >> I think if you look at the colored landscape exhibit A2, you can see it best on that picture. If we want to take a quick look at exhibit A2 also you call it faculty.
I thought you said just the rabbi was going to be living there. >> Correct. So, it's not going to be multiple faculty members. >> No, it's the rabbi and his family. >> The rabbi and the family. And you stipulate it's only the rabbi family. No, no other faculty members. >> Not in the house. But when we get to the
building, you'll notice in the second floor that there's two bedrooms and a bath, and that's for guest lecturers that come in from out of town. So, they have a place to stay uh when they're there at the school for a day or two. >> I'm looking at the residence right now. That's that that stipulation. That's for
the dean. >> Rabbi, >> the applicant will comply with um will work with the tree expert. The applicant will ensure to provide
houseside shields to prevent glare upon the adjacent properties. The applicant would be would um be willing to put the lighting in the within the parking lot on timers
to have the parking area to have the parking area lighting off at midnight >> and shielded. >> Shielded. Yes, shielded. And as mentioned, the applicant has received the approval for the proposed
on-site connection to public water and on-site sewer system from the Jackson MUA and as part of the certificate of filing from the Pinelands and has submitted um for the approval from the Ocean County
Board of Health. May I ask a question about the residents? Is it possible for the residents to be hooked up to the sewer system? >> The this is something unique to Jackson. Um the residence is currently hooked up
>> no >> to the system and that can remain. >> All right. That >> there would be no reason to remove that connection. >> Good. That I just want to make that clear. Thank you. I have one question on the loading facility that you're asking way before.
You're going to have significant deliveries uh especially if you have an in-house kitchen. How was the plan on uh bringing that in? >> The there's a there the applicant is is seeking the waiver because there is a significant there's a uh loading the the
bus loading area which is utilized in the morning and um in the late afternoon would be available for deliveries. Um and I do believe it is sufficient for any deliveries that would come. It's a it is a loading area that would be
available and I believe a waiver uh would be justified. The applicant would be willing to add a loading area as well if the board would not be uh does not deem fit to grant that waiver. But the intent over here is is there is a
loading area uh where the where the students are dropped off that's utilized twice a day and the rest of the day that is an open area that would be able to be utilized for any quick drop offs. >> So what you're proposing how deep is
that uh space between the buses and the front of the building >> at at its most >> Could you use the microphone please? I think we're not recording what you say. >> What's the depth of that area between the buses and the building
>> at its most n between the buses and the building? >> Yes. >> The the the walk area the >> Yeah. >> at its uh deepest it is 45 ft. >> So you're going to take all your equipment from that curb to the building through
45 ft. And what size door are they going to have to bring in the equipment? You already testified you're gonna have beds, gonna have desks, you're going to have cooking equipment. How does that get into the building?
>> The the intent of delivery is not for the de when the building is is being built and uh initially >> that's always going to be place. There's a life expectancy there. You always have a need right >> to replace and to bring. So I'm asking
how practical is that plan? >> I believe that the access in the re in the access in the rear has both the steer access and that actually has a ramp access also. Um 45 is only the farthest place. I I I there's it's uh I
believe that that is a good spot for loading and unloading. >> Okay. >> How do they get into the building? Are you going to have doors wide enough? Is doors wide enough that the for for >> and the architect probably could answer those specific questions a little bit
better because he knows where the doors are and how wide they are. >> Okay, I'll be interested in hearing it. >> Dr. Campbell, may I ask a question? >> Dr. Campbell. Okay, thank you. Um, I'm really concerned about those handicap spaces behind where the buses are. And
now if you're saying that there are there's going to be like loading and offloading um they have to be moved. That's just that's really um concerning to me. >> The applicant could have those spaces
moved. >> We could work with Mr. Peters and Mr. Cle to find a more suitable location. going through some of the board engineers comments. There was a comment regarding the parking calcation and that will be
submitted to demonstrate uh the parking uh requirement and what is provided the applicant um as as noted in the Pineeland certificate of filing. There are inconsistencies with certain storm water management um pieces of the
ordinance and the applicant will address those inconsistencies as part of a condition of approval. As discussed previously, the existing sanitary sewer system along within Grand Boulevard does not have the capacity for
the applicant to connect The applicant um will be prov will be um compliant with chapter 364 regarding import of fill and if the applicant does
need to import fill will need to apply for a permit um from the township. ship. The applicant will provide the requested lighting and landscaping details within the within the uh review
letter and we have our board our the applicants planner will provide justification for the variances. I do believe a loading zone can be waved and again there is sufficient room to
provide space for a loading zone if the board would not wish to grant that waiver. The applicant received comments from traffic safety uh regarding circulation and their submitted plans attempted to address and I believe
addressed those comments from traffic safety regarding conflicting circulation patterns between buses dropping off and cars parking as well as sufficient
movement for the bus to access. Other comments from the traffic safety regarding stop signs and signage. The applicant will be able to provide. That would conclude my direct testimony. All right. >> So, do we want to have the next witness
>> or do we want to have questions from the board? >> They want to have questions. >> Sorry, I do have questions. Thank you. >> Okay. >> Um, is this going to be a a boys school or a girl school? >> A boy school. >> It's a boy school. Okay. And then what are the grades of the students? >> This is a high school. 9 9 through 12.
>> 9 through 12. >> Okay. Thank you. Anyone else from the board? >> Thank you. >> Yes, sir. >> I don't I never forget you. I was waiting. >> Seems like >> the um no issue with the pilings
inconsistencies. Any approval the board may grant. You'd make sure you got your no no call up letter from the pylons. >> Correct. Yes. Um and it only comes from a comments from the um uh township engineer who I believe reviewed the application. You are showing curbs and
sidewalks across your entire frontage. Um how about extending that sidewalk all the way up to the um I believe it's a mikvah that the um board of adjustment approved. Uh regarding that which uh regarding that
there is sidewalk across the entire proposed across the entire frontage and there is existing sidewalk to Bowman. Um there is also sidewalk across the roadway with crosswalk. Operationally, the applicant, this is a
boy's high school, the applicant would actually prefer not to have access between the site and the mikvah. This is this is something actually that would not be desired by the applicant
um operationally. um that that doesn't speak to township needs, but the applicant is providing the sidewalk within the front of the property and would actually prefer not
to have sidewalk directly accessing. If anybody does want to access, there is connecting. There is a new crosswalk directly at the edge of the applicant property that would be able to access sidewalk across Grand Boulevard to get
to East Veterans. So, >> and then >> and then cross back >> and then cross over. >> The applicant would prefer not to have to provide the sidewalk. >> Yeah. The boys should not be wandering over to the mikvah basically. >> And and that was one of my comments. The
boys will be uh relegated to the property. They will not be >> they don't want them walking down the street and they certainly don't want them going to the mikvah >> and they will not be hitchhiking. >> No. Well, well, you could say no, but
I've driven on cross street so uh there will the boys will be relegated to the property. >> Correct. >> Thank you. >> May I ask another question? I'm sorry. Um where are they coming from? because I it says that there's no um walking um
permitted or I guess that you're not planning on having any pedestrian walkers. So, where are they coming from to to go to the school? Where are they being bus? >> They're being bus surrounding area within Jackson, within Manchester,
within Lakewoods. The school is providing busing to bus the students from their residences to the school. Mr. Cle, >> I apologize for my ignorance with mikvah, but um the high school boys,
they can't go or they >> believe it's a woman's mikvah. So, generally the men don't go to the mikvah. It's a very private uh facility, >> boy school, girls mikvah, >> right? >> Thank you. Um that's all for now, >> Mr. Peters.
>> Thank you, Madam Chair. Um to both Miss Jennings um and Mr. Halpert I have a number of comments which may be answered by other witnesses but they were discussed by Mr. Halpert. So I need to take this opportunity to see if he's
the guy or not. Um, on page five of our report under 3 A 1 C, we talk about the variance request that Miss Jennings discussed in her opening,
the school not being located on a principal minor arterial. Who's giving that testimony? So, John Ray will give the testimony with respect to the uh volume on the road and his opinion as to whether or not it really acts as a local road or more like an
arterial collector road. And then Christine Capone is our planner who will put on the planning testimony. >> Thank you. Page six, comment F. Um, respectfully, Miss Jennings, I heard you talk about it, but someone's going to
discuss the second floor residential use. >> Yeah. So the architect will talk about the second floor residential use and then Christine Kafone will provide the planning testimony and support. >> And for G on the same page, you had
indicated that the rabbi is going to live in the existing home under an accessory designation. Correct. >> Correct. So I guess my question is have we now tied
that house the existing home to the proposed school in perpetuity. >> Yeah. It's supposed to it's for the rabbi who is running the school. >> Okay. So 25 years from now, two generations from
now, someone wants to use that house, >> they have to be affiliated with the school under the accessory use section that I cited in the ordinance. >> Okay? >> Or they need to come back to a board or they need >> they have to lift the condition basically because that would I would presume it would be a condition of the board's approval that the house has to
be used in order to be maintained as an accessory structure or use. It has to be affiliated with the school. >> That is correct. Thank you. That was great testimony. Um, Mr. Halford, on page eight of our report
under 4A6, the statement of operations talked about a basketball court for outdoor recreation. >> Is that correct? >> Yes. Thank you for mentioning that. And the statement of operations does indicate a basketball court and that was
not and uh there is room approximately where I am showing over here a basketball court will be proposed in this area. This is away from the septic area away from the basin and this
is the location of the basketball court. >> So it'll be shown on subsequent >> it will be shown on subsequent Yes. >> Thank you. on page 10, comment number eight, um I don't recall if you indicated how many buses um we thought
were going to be utilized during the morning and evening hours or if that's testimony that you're going to give. >> Applicant believes uh two buses will be sufficient for the school use,
>> but we provided enough room for four. Thank you. On page 11 under landscaping, the first comment about buffering if you gave some testimony. I missed it and I apologize, but can you talk just a little about the need for buffering? Uh
the provision of buffering and compliance with that particular comment. The applicant is proposing a building that is uh approximately 31,000 square feet in gross floor area where a 25- ft
buffer is required um between the commercial use being proposed and residential use. Screening is required as part of the buffering requirement. Um, could you Anthony could you please uh bring up the
exhibit set again? The second sheet, the sheet before this one. The applicant is complying with that ordinance by ensuring improvements are located at least 25 ft away. And the applicant
is providing screening along the property with arborvide, a combination of uh v various um trees, arborvide and providing for some of the woods to remain. The screening will be provided
by the proposed arbor vite along the westerly portion of the property which is the area away from the improvements. The applicant will be leaving the gray area shown the wooded area. Um and the applicant believes that
that would be sufficient for the buffering. uh and the applicant would not seek to remove existing trees and provide our provide as screening. >> Thank you. And you'd also indicate in your direct testimony you would work with the certified the township
certified tree expert with regards to the landscape and tree safe plan. >> Yes. The last comment or question on also on page 11, comment number 30 from the township police
traffic safety unit. Um we were lucky enough to have comments from them in advance of the meeting. Could you just go through them and provide you're going to comply? You're going to meet with something that indicates you're going to comply with this January
20th, 2026 report that's in evidence. >> C. Certainly the uh traffic safety um division of traffic safety provided comments on the previously submitted plan. The plan that the board has been looking at were revised to address some
of those comments. Um so the traffic safety the previous um plan was one driveway slightly more narrow and therefore the traffic safety had comments regarding widening
and the applicant agrees to comply with that and has complied with that by providing a submitted a resubmitted plan with a wider driveway um as shown as shown um on the uh on the on the uh
being being projected right now. The traffic safety had another comment regarding conflicting circulation between buses and parking. The previous plan allowed for two-way traffic
along these aisles. Traffic safety was concerned and the applicant agrees to address those concerns and has addressed those concerns by submitting revised plans, changing the circulation pattern
in order to ensure no conflict between busing buses and uh vehicle traffic. The applicant there are other comments regarding stop signs. Do not enter sign.
The applicant agrees to provide the requested signage regarding accessible ramps to be labeled. The applicant agrees to do that. Regarding comment F, the applicant would
agree to prov make the um parking area, driveway area subject to the provisions of title 39. >> Thank you. That's all I have for Mr. Halbert. Madam Chair, >> thank you. Thank you. Anyone else from the board? Uh yes ma'am. Regarding your
your filing to the Pineel Commissions, it it was deemed inconsistent. Correct. >> Correct. >> And two of those issues were the storm water management report as you said and the septic problem. >> Correct. >> The inconsistencies were only regarding the storm water management. >> So there was no inconsistency regarding
the septic. >> Correct. >> Now where where I'm concerned is with the the septic system that's you're you're discussing. It's It's has to be a pretty large system to to service a high school. Correct.
>> Correct. Yes. >> Now, wouldn't that field be located right above where your proposed basketball court would go? Is that seems to be the only place for it to go at this point? >> The field um Anthony, could you could you pull up the um
plan set, please? The field is located over here and the basketball court would be located in this area. Yes, this area would be the basketball court. The basketball court is not uh is a
would be asphalt paved. Um there is no uh drainage beneath directly beneath the basketball court. The distances requirements between the surface basin and the septic system um are being maintained and the basketball court is
asphalt that would be paved. Now, doesn't that system have to be approved by the state? >> This system does not have does not require state approval. Um, systems that are above 2,000 gallon flow of 2,000 gallons per day do require approval from
the state. This is a high school. It's not a large not a very large school. The flow is under 2,000 gallons per day and the application requires approval from the Ocean County Board of Health. >> Okay. And as far as uh just to go back
to the Pel's commission or the Peland's letter when the environmental commission did review it, one of the items we had item number six, the septic was flagged as inconsistent. >> A a comment from the Pineelands or the Environmental Commission? >> Pineelands Commission.
I'm looking at the um incons I'm you're referring to the certificate of filing for this project. There is an inconsistency regarding septic. >> Correct. That's what we have. Number six. >> Number six. >> Number six says storm water management
pre-treatment. >> The pre-treatment of the septic system, right? >> No, that that's referring to a forbay required. >> That's referring to the storm water. It says uh number six says storm water management pre-treatment. What that's referring to is um this the comment has
been addressed at this point. What that comment is referring to when uh runoff from greater than one acre of impervious is being um infiltrated the requirements of the NJD uh rules for stormwater management
require a pre-treatment of forbay and that is what that inconsistency is referring to and the finance will have to approve the resubmitted plans but the plans shown have attempted um I do believe have addressed that inconsistency by providing a forbay for
the storm water management system. >> Okay. Thank you, >> Mr. Rogers. >> I have one small question. The resident at the uh dean's house, how will he travel to the school? I'll say a pathway
for him. Is there a an established pathway >> there? Uh there is no established pathway uh for the dean. He would he would be able to uh walk either down
here or directly across the um it is generally paid. This is this is driveway and this is driveway. So it's essentially connected >> on the same level >> at this point. The applicant would be able to provide
steps if desired, a specific pathway if the board would like. >> I I would just like to know, you know, make sure he wasn't driving the car around. >> I'm sorry. >> Maybe we'll stipulate stipulate a safe walkway. >> Yeah, >> we can we the applicant can provide a
walkway, a direct path. >> Thank you, Mr. Rogers. Anyone else? Don't go far. Thank you. Okay. At this time, I like to call up the architect.
>> Please raise your right hand or let's get your microphone on first. >> All right. Do you swear or affirm to tell the truth, the whole truth, nothing but the truth? >> I affirm. >> All right. Please state your name. Spell your last to the record. >> Shiman Greenbound. G R E N E B A M.
>> All right. And your qualifications? I believe that you testified in front of us before. >> Yes, I have testified in front of this board before multiple times. >> We just put your credentials on the record. So, we have it. >> Register architect from the state of New Jersey. >> And your license is valid today? >> Yes.
>> The board accept his qualifications? >> Of course. Thank you. And if you could, Mr. Greenbound, um just confirm that your office has prepared the uh floor plans and elevations that we're going to be discussing today. >> Yeah. Yes, we have. >> And if you're going to refer to any of your exhibits, can you just identify them for the record and I'll let you get
at it? >> I don't know the exhibit. 2026420 NJ015. >> Got it. Okay. Thank you. >> And that should be exhibit A4. >> So the um over here we're looking at a
sketchy rendering of a relatively classical design, transitional classical design. Um, one of the unique uh features of this building is because we're our main entrance is towards the interior of the lot, we felt that we
wanted to make sure that the street um the streetscape also benefited from the building. So, there's actually a unique building in which our front and rear of the building are both primary facads and they both um present essentially the
same. So, what you're looking at, this rendering is actually the rendering from the street facade, but it's it's a mirror image on the back on the on the back side of the building as well. Um, if we move to sheet number two, so we're
going to start from the basement. The basement, as mentioned before, there's a cooking kitchen. I know there was a question about how food was getting down there. If we look in the um top left of the of the image, we'll see that there's a freight lift that we built in that's
open on the on the grade level. So, uh we imagine most most food and most deliveries will come that way. Um going straight into the storage room. The kitchen is not fully flushed out because we didn't have a kitchen consultant yet.
But we we gave the um areas required for full co full full cooking kitchens and the requirements as per for Orthodox Jews um with separate um dairy and meat kitchens um which is you the words we
used over there since you mentioned you never had a kitchen before. The milig means that that's that's a dairy and the fleshic means it's a meat kitchen. Um, then we have the dining. >> Could you say that again, please? I was going to ask a question about that. So, if you could just tell me that again, please.
>> And maybe spell them because those are Yiddish words and I'm not sure everybody knows how to spell them or pronounce them. >> So, we have one kitchen over there that's uh m i l hi g, milk kitchen. That's the dairy kitchen. >> And then the kitchen to the south of that is the felacia kitchen. That's f L
E I S Hi G. That's the meat kitchen. We can't mix meat and milk products together. So, we keep our kitchens totally separate or as separate as we can. Um, this building act is actually built with with significant storage. Um,
something that we're very thankful that the dean has let us do because uh most of the most common complaint we get after we design buildings is that there's not enough storage. So, we have ample storage area within within the building. There's a coffee room down here at the great great um at the on the
ground floor. There's an admin office that we have in the basement. Um ample mechanical space. Um this binding room is to allow the the students to actually bind the books that are used upstairs. So little bit of vocational aspect over there. Not much, but a little bit of it.
Um, if if we move to the next sheet, >> excuse me. I noticed that downstairs there's a a ladies room that's for the staff. >> Yeah. So one of the things that we found with many of these buildings is that sometimes the school itself has its own
function such as on the high holidays or or there may just be the dean maybe or or one of the rabbis may be maybe may have had a child and is having a a a brisk in the school in the school itself which is primarily which is for the
students but then women would have to come as well. So we wanted to provide the the capability for the women of the staff to have a place to be if they had to come. >> But if a woman is on the staff and
>> no not not sorry wives spouses of staff >> right spouses of staff they they have an upstairs. >> Yeah. So the upstairs as a snam that we have which we'll get to is for praying. But if there was a meal or there was a
small party for the school itself or there was an assembly for the school that had some sort of food with it, we would want the um the women the the staff members spouses to be able to participate as well. You know, I don't
know if the dean wants me to get into this, but there was a a student from the school who just recently passed. And if they would probably make some memorial for that student, that would happen in the dining room, and the mother of that child would want to play, the mother and
siblings would need a place to be, and that's where it would happen. So, these functions do happen, you know, hopefully for more for happier reasons than that. >> And who who would be doing the cooking? So maybe that staff might be female.
>> That staff may be may be female, likely not. But again, the dean's wife is right here as well. >> All right. Thank you. >> So um so here we have the the base major. Um we have the secondary exit onto onto the staircase over there. And then we
have our main entrance. Um the the oats are the oats room over here that we're talking about. That's a library for you. >> Spell that as you're going through them. So that's the >> C A R. Um then we have the dean's office to the
south. Um we have we have four classrooms on this floor. Um no sorry three classrooms on the floor with the coat room and you know general bathroom and the staff the staff room that's what
we call the rebane room rebim. As we move up to the next to the next level, um here we have the the lady section that has a snash e r a s space n o s h i m. Um the fourth classroom as well as
these rooms that that say on them kaburu room c h a b u r ah. So those rooms are actually rooms for the students to to divide up and give small lectures to peers. So we would have like think of it like a conference room where we would
have five six students with one student you know giving his thoughts to them. Um so we have these rooms to be able to divide up um so that an entire class or two classes would be able to divide up into those groups and be able to have
that function as well. We also have an additional conference room up here for staff and there there's been talk about what this little area over here where we have a small kitchenet and two bedrooms. So sometimes there's a visiting lecturer
that may come um or on high holidays, you know, someone one of the staff members may be too far to walk or be there. So this we we have this accommodation for a guest lecturer or that that type of scenario. >> Excuse me. What's the length of time
anyone may stay there? >> I doubt it'll be longer than a day or two. >> So we could stipulate that it would be no more than 3 days. >> I think that's fair. >> Thank you. Um,
next sheet is uh the wide open roof that allows us for uh for HVAC and solar capable if if uh it's economical or or if it makes sense for the syn for the school at that time. Um the next sheet
is our general elevations. We're looking at um if we actually we're looking at relatively neutral tone zus with a stone base and a preformed um colonade and canopy for for the for
the front entrance. Um as you can see the front and rear of the building are mirror mirror images of each other. Um the sides of the building on the next image are are relatively simple affairs. Um, you know, here we have the arc
that's sticking out of the building with two windows. And then we have the other side where we have the classroom windows and then the staircase. So, we don't have we don't have windows there. >> That's uh that's about it.
>> Questions? Mr. Rogers? >> I have two questions for you. I noticed that the second floor has two stairways. Sure is a safety issue. First or second floor? >> Yeah, >> but there's no handicap access.
>> Could you handle that? >> Where? So, >> first floor to second floor. >> Well, we do have an elevator in the building. I apologize about that. Um, if we go to P 003, which is the third sheet in the set, we should be able to see it
on any sheet any of the floor plan. So, if we go back to page three, unfortunately, uh my team missed the opening of the elevator, but there's an elevator right there. >> So, we have an elevator within the building.
>> Okay, just let me check. Second question I have would be the uh food storage. You have substantial storage area. >> The microphone, please, Mr. Rogers. Just move it. It moves. you have a substantial food area and uh I noticed
that the discussion we had with the uh operator was that they were going to take uh no loading zone and take it 45 ft from the bus curb. That raises a question of food safety. You're exposing
the food deliveries to the elements. Uh that's of great concern to me. I'm sure it should be of great concern to everybody. So, I'd like to see a solution to the loading area,
food deliveries. >> So, um the lift approach is generally an accepted approach that that that >> Yeah. But how do you get to the lift? >> The lift is, if we look over here, we're on grade. >> You got to walk 45 feet from the curb.
>> On this side of the building, this is a lot closer. We're about a lot closer. Um I don't have the site plan food from the elements. >> I need both numbers. >> So I don't believe we're proposing a
covered loading dock and I don't think it's standard in the restaurant or food industry. >> Usually usually restaurants, grocery stores and the rest deliver to the dock and it's a you know uh it's not open to the elements. You're now taking food
deliveries, whatever it could be. Okay. Over an open area. Hey, >> I don't think it's any different than a Waw Wa. >> Oh, I think it is. I I don't believe the delivery amount is that they're time deliveries and they're
coming. We gave ample storage for a lot of dry good storage, but I'm saying you're talking about like fresh milk, fresh fresh fruits and fresh uh and and meats or stuff like that. It's really no different than when we do the warming the warm the warming deliveries. Same
same conversation. They come they come once they actually come less often. Um if it's raining outside or there's elements or something like that staff it's a time delivery and the staff would accept it. Um I I don't know that I share the concern. We
definitely could discuss it. I I believe it's a food safety issue depending on the the length of that delivery or concern I have >> 14.9. That's 14.9 ft.
>> That's not as significant in a snowstorm, rainstorm. That is uh a loading dock or a loading area that was closest to the uh lift
the uh I think much wiser. >> So you you want to cut you want to see a covered area there. >> Not necessarily. If you could get it up to the lift, a truck, the end of a truck up to the lift. Okay, I can live with that. But if you
don't, I want to cover >> my preference. >> Let Ellie answer that >> to um Anthony. Um, could you bring up the uh supplemental set to to um could you zoom into this area? Thank you. To clarify, um, Mr. Rogers,
are you looking to have the distance from here to here shortened to have this area cut in a way that an air the distance from the curb to here will be less? Is that is that what you're looking for?
>> I would need to see what you're talking about. I I would I I >> the applicant certainly would be able to create a cut over here in order to provide >> Yes, I believe I know >> closer access. I know he's able to do it, but I don't know what he's going to
do. So, if you can describe that in better detail, >> the applicant would be able to provide a wider radius and both um the >> how far from the lift. >> I believe 8 feet would be sufficient.
And we don't want to have it too We don't want to have a loading area too close either. We would do want to have some separation, but we could shorten it from 15t to 8t. If you can make it six feet where you're going to have a ramp, I could probably understand that. Okay.
But if it's going to be eight feet or more, you're looking at >> So you're looking for six feet. >> I think you could do I could live six feet between the end of the truck
and the door to the left. Now my next question is what is the size of the door to the left >> microphone? >> What is the width of the left doors? >> It's currently a double door. It's a 60 door in total. >> At least six foot.
>> Six feet, which is one of my concerns if we do a six feet is I need the door to swing open. It's a swinging door. So I need that door to be open and I need the pallet jack to be able to get around it. which if I only do a six foot curb is if I only do a six foot sidewalk that that maneuvering is going to be a lot more
difficult because the pallet is probably four feet or 42 inches. So, we'd need the operational capacity for the pallet jack to get around the door of the lift and be able to maneuver around whatever drop happened at that location.
Uh now if it's not food delivery okay how would the any equipment be received through that area same way >> so I doubt the equipment the equipment would likely not be going through the
kitchen um other than when there's startup >> okay so now I'm going to ask you >> so there is a ramp at the other there is the the ADA ramp and the elevator is right off that entrance those types of deliveries So when we talk about dry goods for the kitchen, paper towels,
plates, cups, all that's going out to the kitchen. So we're looking at paper for copers or desks that come off season. >> That's the those those things we would assume would go up the ramp um into the building, regular elevator. >> Okay.
And that would accommodate any furniture or uh >> Yeah. Okay. Uh just want to uh caution you on temperature control on your meats and things like that. That's supposed to go from truck to
refrigeration. >> We got to speak to operation. But >> made my point. >> And you would you would work with our engineer on that uh change? Yeah, Ellie would work with the engineer on the >> Thank you,
>> Rosie. No, >> I just thought to help Mr. Rogers down there. Um, would it be possible I guess the engineer have to answer this if they can cut into it and make it where a box truck can just back up to the lift? I mean, you got pavers and stuff that
probably sustain it. That would be that would be something that I believe I would have to leave to Ellie's rather than argue eight feet, six feet, four feet, >> right? I mean, that would be a conversation depending on how he could get the truck maneuverability. We need that truck to make a K turn back into
the site. That's already sight work. >> Will the applicant stipulate working with the engineer to get that done? >> Yes. >> Thank you. Could we go back through um a couple of the the rooms? Um I'm going to spell it. Uh
Bo B O C H U R I M Area. What is that? >> I apologize about that. That that's actually uh a space for the students themselves to have their own box of cereal to be able to get every single day when they want it. So we find we find that a lot of the students want
their own personal types of dry food or they have their favorite cereal, their favorite, you know, jar of pickles or whatever it is. So that that space is basically basically an essential food locker room for the for the boys. >> And then um the
3,686 ft beis >> that's that's the main study hall. That's the main study hall. >> Okay. And then on the second floor you have um women's areas.
>> Yes. So the the um that room that 1159 that that 1,159 foot room it says words as nashim that is a ladies prayer area um typically. So we're using that as it says also the word sh h i r which is
shear which is an a combined classroom. If they were to give if you know the dean was to give a lecture to two classes at once, they would they would he would do it there. At the same time, we're doubling it up that if there were times that women would come to pray at the school, they have the capability of
praying there. So, we need to provide facilities for the women there. We get away with um with the bathroom counts on the other floors because there's an argument that there aren't going to be women on that floor, but on this one, we can't say that if we're making a women's room. So, we need by by code we need to provide women's bathrooms as well.
>> And is that open to the um the ladies or is that just like spouses and and things? >> That's going to be spouses. that that's primarily going to be spouses or families of the of the um employees or I
assume if there's some sort of function happening for parents of the school um once in a while that that may also open to them. >> Okay. Thank you. How many of these bathrooms will have shower facilities?
>> We don't typically provide shower facilities in our um general high schools. >> Okay, thank you. Chairman, I have a question. Um what is the anticipated mechanical system for the building and will it include any equipment on the roof?
So we do currently have a 3- foot one parapit um with a higher area in in the center. The whatever equipment we have on the roof will be adequately screen screened. Um we try typically try to center it to the building so it's not visible from the street along with the 3D parapit. We assume it's going to be
RTUs um or something to that effect. >> And how will you access that equipment? So, we would have a roof hatch at the at the stair towers. Thank you. >> All right. Any other questions? No,
>> just one more. More. My apologies. >> Mr. Drummer, >> what um what was your plans for a fire protection system? Would it be a dry pipe? >> I don't see a reason for a dry pipe. I would imagine this would be a standard uh sprinkler system. I imagine the the
outdoor canopies may need some dry. It depends on on when when we're going through that in the actual construction documents. It may need a couple of dry heads, but um I believe we'll be within the limit that we'll get the coverage with a 5 foot flex. >> Okay. Thank you. >> And and of course that's an issue
because of a kitchen. So, you know, because now our situation a little different than we have had in the past. >> Yeah. Yeah. So, the the kitchen gets its own anel hood with its own with its own dry system. That that's typical in a kitchen where it has its own its own dry
system at the hood. >> And you're looking for that, Mr. Tremor. That was what you were looking for. >> Yeah. And I just want to make sure that if you do get the MUA hookup in the future, that that fire protection system will be tied in at at the same point. >> I didn't we have MUA for water? I believe we were already had MUA for
water. >> We have water. >> The water supply is coming from MUA already. >> Okay. Thank you. >> And just for the record, the the applicant is agreeing to comply with all the conditions set forth in the fire expert or the fire marshals letter. Correct. >> Correct. >> Correct.
>> Madam Chair, one quick question. I promise. >> Mr. Peters, >> sir, thank you for your testimony. the existing building. Are you familiar with whether or not there are proposals for any interior or exterior renovations to the existing home on the site? A
>> as I was informed by the dean and his wife, it's in pretty good condition and they plan on keeping it that way. >> Good question. Good question. Thank you. >> Thank you. >> Thank you. >> At this time, I'd like to call up our
traffic engineer, John Ray. Long time no see, stranger. >> Do you swear, affirm, to tell the truth, the whole truth, nothing but the truth. >> All right. Please state your name and spell your last on the record. >> Right. And I'm assuming the board >> accepts your credentials, which we
probably know by heart by now. >> Uh, check your microphone to see if it's on. It's It's a new system. >> Okay. Got it. >> Okay. Mr. Ray, could you just confirm that your office prepared a traffic study last revised August 12, 2025? >> Uh, we did. Yes.
>> And you had an opportunity to visit the site in the area around the site? >> We did. And does your report uh describe the existing conditions and existing track of traffic volumes as well as the impact this project would have on the area? >> Uh yes, we we did what I would consider to be a full traffic impact analysis for
the project. Uh consisting of peak hour traffic counts that were conducted at the signalized intersection at East Veterans Highway, Grand Boulevard, Butterfly Road. From those counts, we were able to get the traffic volumes passing the site frontage on Grand Boulevard and we basically had what we
needed in order to uh do the traffic study from there. We uh considered the statement of operations for the high school. It's going to be 120 students, the majority of which are going to be bust. Uh from talking to the applicant,
we got a basic percentage of maybe no more than 10% of the students will be dropped off by parents. That would be 12 students during drop off and pickup hours. Uh so the remaining 108 students given the capacity of a school bus of
about 45 students. We assume three buses would be necessary for the balance of the students. We'd have 10 to 12 staff. So those are basically the numbers that we used for traffic generation. We projected the traffic volumes 10 years out into the future in accordance
with Ocean County Planning Board protocol. We included background traffic growth from the NJ DO's uh background traffic growth rate data for the area and also several other projects in the immediate vicinity of the site that we were aware of. the mikvah at the corner
of uh East Veterans and Graham Boulevard and also the uh yeshiva on East Veterans Highway that I believe last time I checked was under construction. But we included traffic from both of those projects in addition to the NJ DO's growth rate in a projection of the
future 10-year horizon for traffic volumes. We did level of service capacity analyses for the site driveway which will operate at level of service A which is as good as it gets for the 10-year design year for both the morning and afternoon peak hours. The
intersection of East Veterans and Graham Boulevard Butterfly Road will operate at level of service B. It's a very good level of service for the design year for both the morning and afternoon peak hours. Uh the site plan we worked with Mr. Halpert's office to um address the
comments that Mr. Peters had and that the traffic safety department had and we felt that the best way to address those comments and I'm referring to the uh site plan. it's on the board was to bifurcate
the uh driveway and have an entrance over in this area opposite the Royal Grove driveway, a clockwise circulation, and an exit at the uh area I'm showing right here. uh that would uh basically solve the problem of buses encroaching
into the opposite lane of traffic, give them adequate turning radi to protect the uh the curbs and drop the students off and pick the students up on the correct side of the bus, the right side of the bus, as shown on Mr. Halpert's plan. So, I believe the changes that we
put into effect uh did address Mr. Peters and the traffic safety department's concerns. We have adequate parking based on the township's uh ordinance requirements if I'm not mistaken. Uh it's actually more parking than I think we're actually
going to need based on the staffing and the fact that we're going to be busing most of the students. Just something for future consideration for these applications if students are going to be bust. We may not need as much parking as the township ordinance requires, but we don't want to ask for a variance. So,
we're going to supply the parking. >> I think that about covers it. >> Okay. So, just a couple of things in um >> Oh, yeah. >> The planners review letter in particular, the applicant is seeking a variance from ordinance section 244-90E1B,
which states that primary and secondary schools and higher learning institutions shall only be located on a principal arterial, minor arterial, major collector, or minor collector roadway. whereas Grand Boulevard in the township's master plan has been labeled
a local road. Could you address that from a traffic uh safety issue? >> I I can and perhaps if Anthony could pull up the aerial photograph, which I think was the first exhibit, if that's not a problem. >> The one before that.
>> The one before that. Yeah, there you go. Grand Boulevard is actually it functions as a collector collector roadway because as you can see it connects Bowman Road with East Veterans Highway. It takes traffic from the Royal Grove subdivision, distributes that traffic to
the two higher order roadways and it also collects any traffic from the other land uses along Graham Boulevard and distributes that traffic to either East Veterans Highway or to Bowman Road. And the the classic uh example of a collective roadway is a roadway that collects traffic and distributes it
distributes that traffic to higher order roadways which is how Grand Boulevard functions. Just remembering the fact also that if I'm not mistaken the the classification and the master plan of a local road was from 2007 if I'm not mistaken. It was some time ago, 20 years
ago. And since then the Royal Grove subdivision has been built. And as I said, this roadway, Grand Boulevard, connects two other more major roads and it's a it functions as a classic collector. Thank you. There were also um some
additional design waiverss noted in Mr. um now my I'm forgetting your name. I'm looking right at you. >> Think of the bar and the sidewalk uh in seaside. >> Anyway, going to page nine. Um, we start
with a couple of design waiverss. If you had an opportunity to uh review that letter and those specific design waiverss. >> I did, but I'm going to have to go back to them. >> Page nine. >> Okay. >> If you go down towards the bottom, D1,
ordinance section 244-46F5. The circulation plan should indicate that no parking, standing or bus queuing will occur within the rightway during peak loading or unloading times and that unobstructed access or fire equipment, other emergency vehicles to school
buildings and/or on-site fire department connections will be provided. I I I think we meet that requirement. This is pretty much going back to the site plan, a standard layout for circulation for a school. It's actually I think we made some significant improvements to the
layout based on addressing Mr. Peters and the traffic safety comments and I think we we we meet those require requirements. >> Okay. The next one called out is ordinance section 244-197D2. Parking areas for 25 or more cars and access drives for all parking areas on
major or minor arterials shall provide curb return radi of not less than 15 ft for all right turn movements whereas less is provided. Um can you >> I can work with Mr. Halper to address that. >> Ellie, can we do the 15t? I'm pretty
sure we can. Right. That's not a major change. We will uh make that change. >> And also in that section, it refers to major and minor arterials and we're talking about a local road. >> Yeah, it it Graham Boulevard functions as a basically a classic collector road
under today's circumstances. It might not have back in 2007, but it does today. >> Okay. Then item D4, ordinance section 244197J2A2A. All entrance drives shall extend a minimum distance of 100 ft back from the
street right away or to a parking access aisle or major circulation drive whereas 60 ft is provided. >> Could you make justifications for that please? that that's a requirement that we very frequently have to ask for relief from because I believe it was
intended for high volume um driveways such as driveways to shopping centers, Jackson Commons, things of that nature, the shop right on, you know, County Line Road, things of that nature. It was meant that that it's a good ordinance for a high traffic generator, but for a
school that's going to have drop off and pickup in the morning and actually be in the evening, not even during the peak hour in the afternoon in this particular case, uh it really wouldn't apply to uh the volumes that are entering and exiting this particular site. And then
finally, per section 244197J2A2C, no parking stall shall utilize the required entrance and exit drives or major circulation drives as parking access aisles, whereas the parking access is the main circulation drive. Can you provide justification for that?
>> Same justification. It goes back to what would typically be required for a shopping center, a higher volume aisle where you wouldn't want cars backing up into a high volume circulation aisle in a shopping center or some higher traffic generator. Uh this is not the case. It's
going to be a a high school for 120 students, the majority of which are going to be bus. So we're not talking about the kinds of traffic volumes that would require that for safety. Could we uh could we require no parking on any of
the drive areas? >> We could strike them as fire lanes. Dr. Campbell, if you'd like. Yeah. No parking. Fire. Yeah, sure. >> Uh because, you know, those parents are likely to start piling up and, you know, I I just think it would be a
safety concern. So, no parking uh in any of the drive aisles. Make sure to stripe them and park >> mark them as fire lanes as well. >> Is it also possible if the applicant can petition the council to make the
frontage of the high school a no parking zone? >> Sure. Absolutely. We would agree to that. There's no reason for anybody to be parking out on Grand Boulevard. >> Be requesting no parking on the street. Uh, also at this time there is no um
lane marking or painting on Graham Boulevard. Will uh the is the applicant responsible for that or is that a responsibility of the township >> or the county >> or the county? >> Oh, it's a township road. >> It's a township road. It would be the township. When you say lane markings,
there is a if I'm not mistaken, is it a double yellow or that I mean there's there's a separating traffic flow >> and respectfully there's not >> maybe there could be and should be, you know, >> there's no the only markings on that
road are the crosswalk that goes across. That's it. Uh the only striping that would be appropriate in this case because it's one lane in each direction would be a if you didn't want it to be a passing zone to be a double yellow down the center line would be the only thing appropriate with brakes breaks in the
double yellow at the driveways. >> At the driveways. >> Yes. Exactly. >> And that's a township issue. >> Yes. So could we also request with the no parking zone you also request the linage uh added to the road?
>> Yes. Thank you. >> So, I was reviewing your traffic study and I just wanted to I know you've revised it. You've updated it in August of this year. What were your revisions specifically? >> The access revisions, >> just the access provisions. So, the last
time that you did a traffic study uh checking traffic was in June of 2022, >> correct? But remember again that we projected those traffic volumes 10 years in the future. So we really didn't look at 2022 traffic volumes. We looked at
2032 traffic volumes. So yes, >> but you're not looking at what's happening in the area. So the um on East Veterans Highway there is a and I apologize if I say this wrong is a temple yeshiva. There's a there's a big I think you thought it was under
construction but it's been completed. >> Did you take that into account? Yes, we absolutely did. We did the traffic study, my firm, for for the yeshiva, and we included those traffic volumes in the 10-year projection as well as the mikvah and on top of that the NJ dot's
background traffic growth. Yes, we did. >> Okay. And then um did you take into account the hours of the where that the temple may be like earlier the same time as the school getting out in the evening at the same time as the school? Yes, we
did because we've got a multitude of traffic counts along East Veterans Highway. And actually, we looked at a worst case scenario, one in which the dismissal hours for the high school would coincide with the peak hour on East Veterans Highway, which is like 5 to 6 when actually it's going to be
after that. And even though the temple may be somewhat more active in the later evening hours, it's not the the traffic discharge is not consistent with the peak commuter traffic flow on East Veterans Highway, which is essentially 5 to 6 p.m. So, we probably looked at a
worst We didn't probably We did look at a worst case scenario. >> And when was the last time that you went down Grand Boulevard? >> Couple of days ago. Did you notice that there were several new homes that were built and um I went there today and
there was a lot of traffic there and I almost got into an accident. Um people were parking on the side of the road there and I would also take issue with the fact that this is a local road. It's not a very long road. Um but it is a
local road in my opinion. I respectfully from a traffic engineer's point of view it collects traffic from Royal Grove from the other land uses and if you just look at it you got Bowman Road on one side East Veterans on the other there's only two places you can go
either Bowman Road or East Veterans and so that would fit the definition of a collector road. >> Uh does it fit the definition of a collector road with the township? What do they call it >> with from the IT the Institute of Transportation Engineers? Or even if you look at the RSIS, the residential site
improvement standards, that's what a collector road, that's the function of collector road. >> That's not I'm that's not my question. My question is not what it appears to be. And I agree with you. That's what it appears to be. What does what kind of road does the township call it?
>> The township road. >> The township calls it a local road. And let me let me back up for a second. From a traffic perspective, I don't know why that's in your audience. To me, having there's nothing
inconsistent with having a school on a local road. Nothing inconsistent. If you drive around the state, you drive around the country, schools belong in residential neighborhoods. There are multitude of schools in Jackson, throughout Ocean County, throughout the state of New Jersey that are on local
roads. they're in neighborhoods. So, there's nothing inconsistent with having an access to a local road, but I still think this functions as a collective. >> Yet, yet, uh, we would have to give a variance. >> Yes.
>> So, so there's there's a difference. The township is calling it one thing. You're calling it something else. Um, >> we need a variance. Yes. Or or or would you need to get the township to
declare that a connector row? >> No, we just need a variance from the township's ordinance. I think Miss Jennings would agree with that. We just need a variance because we feel there's justification for the variance. That's all. >> And I believe Miss Capone is going to be putting testimony on it to a C2 variance. Correct.
>> Correct. >> And be mindful that we're dealing with an inherently beneficial use. It it gives us pause. That's something we need to think about. >> You are an educator and I understand you know a lot about schools and traffic
flow and I I appreciate that experience. >> Thank you. Anyone else from the board have any questions for this gentleman? >> Don't go far, Mr. Ray. >> Mr. Clay, >> just just real quick. Um and um going back to the um the question about the
sidewalk from strictly traffic safety point of view and I know we have to keep the boys school away from the girls Nick Mick but but traffic safety would sidewalk be a good idea. >> It's very hard to argue against sidewalk Doug but in this particular case where
does the I mean are there any land uses at the corner like you know stores that the kids might want to walk to or something? It's kind of a rural area. I don't know where they'd want to walk to or what purpose there would be for getting them to the intersection. >> How about cur How about curbing?
>> Curbing. >> Curbing is a safety barrier. >> I I would defer that to the engineers, not the traffic engineers. I traffic engineers never viewed curbs as a safety. They they usually just define the edge of the pavement and are used
for drainage and to stop the edge of the pavement from eroding, but they're really cars can jump curbs. They're really not a safety issue. It's not a safety factor. >> Mr. Clay, thoughts? >> I'm just looking at curbs and sidewalks
on both sides of the streets going to Roman going to these veterans. And >> I mean, just because it's there doesn't mean they have to walk to the mikvah, you know? It's a it's a benefit to the township to have
sidewalks on both sides. >> I I understand and if I'm not mistaken and I I could be mistaken that if sidewalks aren't are a waiver or whatever you want to call it is requested, wouldn't the applicant have to pay into the township sidewalk fund? >> It's not a matter of money.
>> Yeah. Well, it wasn't a matter of money. It was a matter of safety. The point I was making is that there may be other areas of town where the funds could be used for more important places where sidewalk is needed. That's all >> thoughts. Anyone?
>> Thank you. >> Thank you. >> Okay. At this time, I'd like to call our planner up, Christine Capone. Mafone, always a pleasure. Please raise your right hand. Do you swear or affirm to tell the truth, hold the truth, nothing but the truth? >> All right. Please state your name and
spell your last of the record. >> Nazaro. >> Christine Nazaro. N A Z A R O Kafone C O F O N E. Business address is uh not 125 half mile road 52 Reckless Place,
Redbank, New Jersey 07701. I'm testifying this evening as a licensed professional planner. I've been testifying as such for about 30 years in the state of New Jersey. I have been qualified here in Jackson as well as hundreds of other planning and zoning boards throughout the state and my
licenses are current and valid. >> Welcome. Thank you. >> Thank you. >> The board accept your credentials. >> Yeah. So, um, Miss Capone, you've listened to the testimony of the other witnesses, and you've had an opportunity to review the application, the master plan, and the ordinance, as well as the
site and the area around the site. And from a planning perspective, you understand the variances that the applicant is seeking in the design waiverss. And if you could uh go through your analysis and based on your professional opinion, can you determine whether or not the applicant has satisfied the statutory criteria?
>> Yes. Um, I did all of those things. I visited the submit property. I reviewed all of our application submission documents and I re reviewed the board professional review of both your engineer and your planner. Um, this is a substantially conforming application. It's located in the township's RG2 zone
and which is specifically allows for schools. The only relief that we need with regard to the school is for us to be fronting um not on a primary arterial, minor arterial, major collector or minor collector, which is
what the ordinance requires. And I think Mr. Ray did an outstanding job of laying the foundation as to while we are seeking that relief, how Grand Boulevard actually functions is completely aligned with how Jackson considers those roads.
It picks up the traffic and it brings them to the other roads. And I think we had an aerial. I forget what it was marked up, but Mr. Ray had when we had A1 up and I think that's an exemplary job of you can see uh Bowman is to I
guess that would be the west of the subject property, right? And then you have the adjoining where we're almost entirely, you know, surrounded in adjacent to networks. So while it may not be defined as a collector, it certainly functions as that and the definition in the in the ordinance in
the master plan is a little stale. Statutoily we are required to examine our master plans in the state of New Jersey every 10 years and I don't think that that has been changed at least that characteristic has been changed and I think that certainly the character in
the area has changed um since that was denoted as a local road. So this is an inherently beneficial use. And while we do need some variance relief, the test that you hold this applicant to is not a standard that there be absolutely no
detriment. The standard is under the C2 statutory criteria, which is what this is. I don't believe we qualify under the C1 hardship. I believe we fall under the C2 statutory hardship. Is do we advance one or more purposes of the municipal land use law? And can the variance be
granted without substantial detriment to the public good on and the zone plan? So >> I'll wait. No audience comments at this time. Please. >> Thank you. So the positive criteria
takes us purpose of the municipal land use law and there are two of them that I believe are advanced and again statutoily we only have to advance one. Criteria A talks about promoting the general welfare. This is an inherently beneficial use and I think schools are unequivocally an inherently beneficial
use as they educate our community or the children in our community. Criteria G also talks about providing sufficient space in appropriate locations for a variety of uses. In this zone, you're allowed to have a lot coverage of 40% where we are only at 5.49%.
we are able to provide for the buses in the back of the property to be dropped off so that you don't really see them along the roadway frontage. And I think that that certainly is important and lends itself to the conclusion that there's sufficient space in this location for this use. As far as the
negative criteria, the impact on the public good and the impact on the zone plan, I see no substantial detriment. The applicant through its testimony tonight has been willing to accept a number of conditions including which no there would be no banquetss, no rentals,
um no rent, no renting out the space, no students driving to the facilities, no parking on the roadway frontage of Grand Boulevard. And all of these things in my opinion will assist the applicant in meeting its burden of proof with respect to the negative criteria. Oh, in
addition to allow not allowing um faculty visitors to stay more than three nights. So, in my opinion, all of those will have certainly an impact and eliminate any impact on the negative criteria as far as the public good or the zone plan that surrounds the subject
property. Um faculty though upon my review of the ordinance, faculty residences are specifically permitted to be utilized as an accessory to a school. So really the only relief the applicant is seeking is for that classification and I think you have substantial
uncontroverted testimony in the record from a traffic engineer and and myself as from the planning point of view as to how that will function. So I believe we meet our burden of proof with respect to the C2 criteria for the grant of that relief. We are also seeking a variance
for the signage. Um we're as our architect testified it's a mirror image to the front and the back in this zone. We are allowed to have wall signage on only one frontage. So because it's a mirror image building and you have the grand entrance on both the front and the
back. We had the name of the school. It's very understated. It's very subtle. It was on architecture. It was on one of the pictures before, but it's just the I guess you would say the Yiddish letters of the name of the school. They certainly don't take up a substantial percentage of the wall area. They're
very undersited. So I believe the board can also grant that signage variance as a C2 variance advancing criteria I which talks about promoting a desirable visual environment. Um as planners I like to think you know signs have multiple purposes. They're wayfinding but they're
also architectural and they break up the elevations of the building. It's not that I think this building needs that because I think it's a very attractive building, but it is not uncommon to have the name of a school on the building. And since the entrance to the school will essentially function in the back or
the rear where the buses are loading, I don't think it would be inappropriate to have additional signage there. >> So, they know where they're going. They know where they're going to school. The school name is on the front of the school. >> Why would they need to have it on the
back? They absolutely do, doctor, and they don't need to have it on the back. And that's what makes it a C2 variant. >> The other thing is we need some monument signing for address. We need a building address, some form of monument signing for the sake of the police and the fire
department. Correct. >> I would agree with you and we can work with your professionals to to locate that. And we are proposing signage along the Grand Boulevard frontage. It's just we were asking for the secondary signage. I believe it's a C2 variance. You're right. It's not necessary. Once
they've gotten there, they've arrived. So, it becomes more of an architectural component in the back. I happen to think, like I said, from a planning point of view, signage has most multiple functions. If you're in a commercial area, it would have advertising, wayfinding, and architectural components. Here, we're not really
advertising the school. It's a school, but certainly it has an architectural component. We have a grand entrance in both the front and the back. If the board is not persuaded, I don't think the applicant needs to have that sign. I think that they could do without it. To me, it's not an integral part of this application. If the board were not
inclined to grant the signage variance relief, I don't think that that it's an integral part. And I think that once people, it's not really providing any wayfinding signage. So, if the board is not persuaded that it has an architectural feature, I think that there really is no purpose for the sign in my opinion. >> Um,
>> comments on the board? getting back to your uh C2G. >> Hang hang on. >> It's not finished actually. Let's go through the design waivers still, >> right? >> All right. >> Yeah. Let Mskapone finish testimony and then we can circle back to questions >> and the design waivers essentially
relate and Mr. Ray went through them specifically, but they went essentially through the parking layout, right? And I think this is a student for we know our enrollment right now is about 100. Our maximum capacity is about 120. These students are not driving here. We have
only about a dozen staff members. So I think that the variances related to the parking are certainly justif or the waivers I should say. They're just waivers. The waiver is justifiable for the parking and the parking arrangements are justifiable based on the operational testimony that's been provided in in
conjunction with this application. And the test there is just the reasonable reasonleness to meet the intent of the ordinance. Are the waiverss reasonable in order to carry out the intent of the ordinance? And I think that if the board were to grant the ve the waiverss that we're requesting, the board could
certainly do so based on the testimony that was provided and the functionality of the of the plan. Um so that in my opinion concludes um my testimony which which substantiates the burden of proof
for the C2 variances related to the um the road and the signage as and that's the only relief that >> Miss Capone, I'm just a little confused. So, um, so Mr. Ray testified that the, uh, parking was going to be met, but now we have a waiver being presented that
were just, just if you can clarify, >> she's talking about the design waiverss on page 9 and 10 of Mr. Peter's review letter that dealt with the access drive aisles, >> right? For the layout, we absolutely do not need to see the parking. >> I just wanted to be clear as to parking.
>> They're more for the layout. If you go to Mr. Peters. Um it's the circulation plan and that no um 25 or more cars and access drives and all parking areas shall provide current return radi. Um all curb radi shall be labeled on the
plan. Entrance drives shall extend a minimum distance of 100 ft back. These are the waiverss that I'm talking about and Mr. Ray went through them all specifically, but the waivers really are relating more to the layout of that and those functions, not to the sheer number. We absolutely I we I think
exceed the number of parking spaces we need, but we do meet your ordinance requirement for parking. >> U Mr. Peters, any thought on those waivers >> as it relates to the design waivers for entrance setbacks and the parking locations, they were generally
um set up for larger parking areas. So while the number at which this threshold comes in is 25 or 50, it's generally utilized for large parking areas like a shop, right? >> Businesses,
>> correct? Um the other reconciliation of setting something back 50 or 100 feet is in a lot of areas our zoning for commercial areas doesn't allow for that. So if you have a commercial zone along County Line Road only goes back 400
feet, it makes it very difficult to take all of the traffic in 100 ft. Not impossible, just difficult. As it relates to this particular site, um putting in a 100 foot setback would require everyone to go to the back of
the property to start. We would have a difficult time parking vehicles in the front. So, as it relates to the traffic safety aspect and the testimony that was given, I don't take any exception to the design waiverss as described this evening.
>> Thank you. That's a help. Appreciate it. >> Um, >> Mr. Sullivan, >> yes. The C2G variance, you're asking for the width of the road there. Wouldn't you say that that is inherently
not conducive to this application that it's only 50 feet wide there? >> I would not agree with that. Our traffic engineer did a traffic impact study that was submitted that he concluded that there would be safe and efficient access um to the site. This is a zone that also
allows things such as house of worship and public buildings and governmental offices. So I think that I I would have to disagree with you respectfully there that that makes it inherently unsafe. Our engineer actually testified our site our traffic engineer actually testifi
testified the opposite of that that the site would function safely and efficiently um despite it being located on a local road. there any possibility of the applicant widening the road in front of their frontage? >> I think that that would be a question
that may be better directed to either the site civil engineer or the traffic engineer. >> I just had one question for you. You mentioned that you already had 100 students. Is are they coming from is this being a relocated school? Are
people how do you know that there are are 100? >> Yes, it's from an existing school that is moving here. >> And where is that existing school? >> I believe it's in Lakewood. >> Okay, thank you. >> My head is at a swivel trying to cover everybody. Let's get Mr. Peters again.
>> Um, Miss Capone, thank you for your testimony. Um the only issue I'm stuck on this evening has to do with um Graham Boulevard being a local road. Um you are
you are familiar that um the requirements for the location of schools for higher education only exists for the last two or three years. Correct.
>> I am aware. Yes. Um so as I look through the RG2 standards of 24490 in subsection E which is
the bulk standards and design criteria for primary and secondary schools, higher learning institutions and accessory uses there too including dormitories, student residences and faculty residences. Comment 1B says, "Primary and secondary
schools and higher learning institutions shall only be located on principal arterial, minor arterial, major collector, or minor collector roadways as indicated or defined within map CR4, or any updated version of the Jackson
Township master plan." So, well, I understand that Mr. Ray said it acts as a collector road. I'm not sure if that exceeds the
threshold. The town spent >> considerable time and effort to create this standard. Miss Jennings was part of the drafting of the ordinance and the utilization of the reference material for the previous
master plans mapping of higher order roads. I'm trying to understand how to reconcile that with the idea the town just did planning board just did a new master plan and didn't make any recommendations to offset this or to redefine it or to
say well yeah except maybe where it kind of functions like a collector road. So, I'm I'm having a difficult time reconciling that I have an ordinance that's two and a half years old, a master plan that's a year old,
and none of them have said we have a map that has standards here, red colors and yellow colors and orange colors, and they represent different level roadways. Um, but yet we're just we're going to suggest that
regardless of that, because it's an inherently beneficial use, we should do it because it acts or functions like a collector road with quite frankly minimal testimony. No disrespect to Mr. Ray. I respect his testimony, but
he gave his own definition. He didn't reference our master plan, our land use ordinance. Um, so I'm having a little bit more trouble reconciling the variance request just because the
land was available and it's an inherently beneficial use. I was wondering if you could >> Yeah, I can provide otherwise of that. >> I will I will do that, Mr. Peters because I think first of all in my experience as a planner I think it would
be unusual to see a master plan that made very specific recommendations like that. That's not really what the master plan would do would be to drill down to change the the designation of one specific road. Master plans are usually a little bit more global and visionary.
But reading from the same section of the ordinance that you read, section 24490, you read E1B. I'm going to go down and read E15, which reads, "A traffic circulation plan indicating circulation, access, parking,
and loading/unloading areas is required. Additionally, this circulation plan should indicate that no parking, standing or bus queuing will occur within the right ofway during peak loading or unloading times and that unobstructed access for fire equipment
and other emergency vehicles to school buildings and or on-site fire department connections will be provided. So, when I read that from a planning point of view, and I we are here for a variance, so we clearly violate that one section of the ordinance. But if you but if you go on
and you read right E5, that has to speak to the intent of what this municipality was trying to do when they were controlling traffic access. And I think that this application meets every single one of those items and concerns are addressed. There's absolutely no concern
resulting from the fact that this application fun uh fronts on a local road. We have proper access. We have more than enough parking. We have more than enough queuing. We testified that we think we'll be using two buses, but we have space to queue for four. So, we
have certainly we have accepted a condition that we would have no parking along the frontage of Grand Boulevard. So, I do think that while your ordinance has that requirement, we meet all of the concerns. And I think as a planner when we are testifying no matter what type of
variance it is what we have to reconcile is what the intent of the ordinance here is. And here the intent was to have safe and efficient circulation to the site and through the site. And I think that there's uncontroverted testimony in the
record based on Mr. Ray's testimony. His testimony was limited. It's a brief issue. Um and I I did review your master plan and your master plan classifies as a local road as local streets which provide direct access to abuing land uses and are primarily responsible for
residential areas to connect to the larger connector and arterial street networks. So that's what this local road does and I don't think having this proposed school at this location will have any offense to that local road. It also defines a minor collector as minor
collectors are similar to major collectors in their function but tend to have shorter lengths, lower driveway densities, lower speed limits, lower traffic volumes, lower number of travel lanes, and are spaced at smaller intervals. So, it's very difficult even though there are these definitions that
exist, it's very difficult to read that definition of minor collector or this school would be allowed and then divorce from that. that Grand Boulevard is not appropriate for this type of of use. It's the school functions from approximately 8 to 10 every day. So
there um we provided testimony that there will be no delotterious impact on the peak hour traffic. I don't want to regurgitate Mr. Ray's testimony because I think it was complete and accurate and certainly in my opinion to set up my testimony that there would be no substantial detriment because that again
is the test. I'm aware that this is, I believe, a 2023 variance, but that doesn't mean that just because an a variance is newer or an ordinance is newer that there can't be variance relief. The changes don't the standard doesn't change for an ordinance that was adopted recently. So, I I I reviewed all
these things. I reviewed the entirety of the RG2 zone and like I said, I was really persuaded by that one paragraph that I read into the record because I felt like those are the things that Jackson was trying to control and address as a matter of safety and impact
when you were locating schools. And I believe that the testimony that's provided and the site layout that's provided addresses all of those things with no substantial detriment or impact to the public good or the zone plan. And that is categorically the test that we are held to whether the ordinance was
adopted in 2023, 2013 or 2003. But we can look at things like that the master plan classification is stale um for the roadway. The board can certainly consider that that the the change circumstances are absolutely an appropriate term in planning and there
has been significant developments in this area since 2007 when that classification was put into place. So the board can certainly consider that and while the master plan did not go and address and make a recommendation on a a individual road level I think when the
board looks at the global intent of that zone it can be comfortable that there's no substantial detriment. >> You're welcome. >> Thank you. >> Um I would disagree with some parts of that. I think parentheses 5 um describes onsite
design standards and not sighting. And I think 1B speaks specifically to sighting. It's what classification the road frontage is. And in map CR4, there's actually I'm sorry, not in the
map CR4. In the written portion of the previous master plan, there were a list of roads that were permitted or that were categorized as primary principal arterials, minor arterials,
major collectors. So I perceive them as two different sets of guidelines. One is an on-site set of design standards and one was a sighting standard. So, um, I don't take any exception to the rest of Miscapone's
testimony. Um, I'm not yet convinced that there isn't a reason that the town either in 2010, 2023, or 2025
didn't better define where they think these new uses should be. >> But Mr. Mr. Peters, if I could just go back to five when you said that that's primarily for on-site. This the passage that I read from the ordinance, it talks specifically about standing or bus queuing which will occur within the
rightway during peak loading or unloading times and that unexpected access for fire equipment. That certainly would not be relating to on-site circulation, right? Nothing about activity occurring in the right of way would be directly correlated to on-site activity.
And I think uh strict reading of the ordinance would almost make this a prohibited use and it's not. It's permitted subject to the bulk standards. These are bulk standards. It's not a conditional use standard where you'd have to get a devariance from the zoning board because you didn't meet it. It's a
bulk standard which is a much lower standard. And so if you meet the criteria and demonstrate the positive negative criteria are met, you can get relief from this. This is not a complete prohibition. >> It's a C2 variant standard. Yeah, that's what I testified to.
>> Thank you. Thank you. Um, is that conclusion of your testimony? >> Yes, it is. >> I think it would behoove us to take a 10-minut break at this time if that would >> suit everyone. >> Thank you. >> 10 minutes, please. Thank you.
Have we finished with our testimony? >> Yes, that's the direct testimony. Thank you. >> All right. Uh we're going to open it up to the public for cross- examination at this point. So, anybody wants to come up and >> specific about cross >> I'll explain. Um so, we're going to open
up the cross- examination. Cross-examination means uh that you have the opportunity to um to ask the the applicants professionals regarding any questions regarding the testimony they provided. So, it's got to be specific,
cogent to the point uh regarding testimony that they put on the record. And any general comments we can leave until the end, which is the second part of this, there'll be another uh general public comment period where you can put your opinions and feelings and thoughts
on the record that's not specific as to as to actual questions. All right. Please raise your right hand. You swear and affirm the told the truth, the whole truth, nothing but the truth. >> I do. Please state name and spell your last for the record. >> Adam Heidy. H A I D I. I'm a resident of
70 Vina Court in Jackson. I am on the Environmental Commission, but I'm just speaking as a concerned resident tonight. Um all throughout the testimony, um it was mentioned that this property is within the overlay zone. Is that correct?
>> Is that correct, Miss Jennings? >> I'm not a witness. So, uh Ellie, do you want to come up? Yeah, if we want to bring the engineer up. Yeah, >> that is correct. >> Right. And are is are you familiar with uh ordinance 244-45
that's titled conservation overlay zone? >> I am. >> And what properties does the conservation overlay zone ordinance apply to? It's in section C. >> Properties within the conservation zone overlay.
>> Correct. And all properties that fall within the overlay, what are they supposed to provide per the ordinance? >> This application is um this property is >> just answer the question. I'm answering this application um property is within
the Pinelands and the property is required any application to the planning board is required to receive a certificate of filing um from the Pinelands prior to being deemed complete. Um the at the properties
located within the comprehensive Pinelands management area um are under the jurisdiction of only the Pinelands and um NJD does not have jurisdiction. The Pinelands um requires uh the
township boards to uh prior to deeming an application complete um have the applicant submit the plans and receive a certificate of filing. The certificate of filing would indicate um as to any
concerns that the Pinelands um has regarding the proposed site work. This application did um submit to the Pinelands the plans and did receive. >> Did you request an LOI from the Pineland which they are able to conduct?
>> I spoke. So I will answer that question to clarify the pinelands um mechanism for determining as to any presence, absence or location of any wetlands um is called a certificate of filing.
The certificate of filing is the process through which a determination as to the location if there are wetlands or the presence absence of wetlands um is determined. And so the deter the um
issuance of a certificate of filing where the inconsistencies indicated are regarding storm water management and there are no inconsistencies regarding any wetlands or threatened and endangered species.
The lack of any inconsistence regarding that is itself a determination within the certificate of filing as to the absence of such features. That would that would answer this uh that question.
So to follow up on your on your answer are do are you familiar with the process of how the Pineland conducts an LOI? You do know the applicant requests the LOI. Did you request an LOI from the Pinelands? I'm I'm very familiar and um the
>> or did you not request an LOI? Did you Yes or no? >> Hang on. Let let him let him speak. Let him speak. >> The process the pro just to clarify again and uh in anticipation of any more clarification that was needed because I do want to make sure that the answers
are clear. I did additionally um speak with Mr. Keith Carter uh this past week Thursday >> in regulatory. Right. in regulatory um and he is open to anybody from the environmental commission reaching out. But again, the process for a
determination regarding wetlands within the Pinelands area is through the mechanism called a certificate of filing and that the applicant did. >> It is just untrue what the applicant is saying. The applicant must Okay. >> Can't testify.
>> Understood. Okay. Is the is the the applicant familiar with article 7 in our own township code? Could you ex We have article six and article 7. The overlay falls within article six. What is article 7 titled?
>> Um I I would be willing to listen to your recitation. >> Well, article 6 is Jackson's Pineland's provisions. It's 24461 >> correct >> through 244107. And there's no language within the Pineland provisions of Jackson
Township's ordinances that conflict with article six. >> Yeah, but Adam, he is correct in the fact that the the LOI is a creature of statute from the D. The certificate of filing is a creature of statute with Pinelands. When it's a Pineland zone, the Pinelands retains jurisdiction over
it. Um, >> there's nothing within the CMP that prevents an applicant from complying with local code. So, I I get that, but but an LOI doesn't exist within the structure of Pinelands. You basically have to request a um >> you have to request the LOI. >> Well, it wouldn't be an LOI. It would be
a presence absence. >> No, it's an LOI application. I I have it. I can show it to you. I >> So, an LOI is a very specific thing for the D. It's a it's an actual statutory. So, so a presence absence request would would do the same thing, but it would just be on the Pinelands version. So, so
jurisdictionally it's >> not all LOIs are created equally. However, the Pelins is capable of issuing an LOI. >> I understand that. >> So, two things though, >> our ordinance explicitly asks for an LOI from the NJ D 244-5
specifically, excuse me, specifically states from the New Jersey D. Furthermore, >> to clarify to clarify, the ordinance to answer the ordinance specifically would like that determination take to take place. That
determination has taken place with the issuance of the certificate of filing and a lack of any indication of any environmentally sensitive features such as threatened and endangered species and wetlands. And this is further as per a
conversation with the reviewer on this plan and this engineer is familiar with other jobs but I specifically had a conversation with Mr. It isn't the overlay of matter. >> Hang on, guys. Hang on. >> I I have one thing to say. I understand
this and I agree with you that it's a matter of language and you have your wet lines by by the pilings. I understand that jurisdiction. I understand that totally >> to satisfy everybody. Would the applicant be willing to send a letter to D and let them or whatever you call it,
Bobby? >> It would be absence. >> Letter of presence of absence and send a D for their clarification also. The applicants certainly were willing to send a letter to the Pineelands. The DP doesn't have to the Pineelands to the D also. Uh the DP doesn't have jurisdiction. >> No, no, but let them come back and send a letter to you. They don't have
jurisdiction. >> The applicant is willing to send such letters. Yes. >> Thank you. >> As a condition of approval. >> Yes. Thank you very much. >> The conservation overlay zone is a mapbased trigger. Correct. >> Yes. And uh >> that would indicate full stop.
Whatever's within the map that ordinance would apply to. Correct. That is correct. >> Thank you. And are there is there any can you point to any language within either Pineland CMP or Jackson Townships Article 7 Pineland provisions
that points to a conflict between that overlay ordinance asking for an issued LOI and the Pineland's LOI? >> I'm not saying there's a conflict. I'm saying the applicant satisfies it with the issuance of the certificate of filing. That is the form of the LOI
>> verbatim. Is an NJD LOI the equivalent of a Pineland's LOI? Are those two? >> Well, it be a Pineland certificate of filing, but yeah, >> for clarification,
a certificate of filing is not an LOI. An applicant can put an X in the check mark that says we need an LOI, but a certificate of filing does their certificate of filing is inconsistent. How can their inconsistent how would
your inconsistency of filing equate to an LOI? >> That's a very that's a good question. >> The answer is >> there's no answer. If you could just Yeah, let the engineer >> That's a good question. The answer is
that the applicant did more than request an LOI. The applicant didn't simply uh uh the the equivalent an LOI is prior to any site improvements being proposed simply a request for a determination as to wetlands. The applicant did f did
more than that and it is subsumed within what the applicant did. The applicant pro provided site plans uh demonstrating the development and that would include any um wetlands which are within the property and the inconsistency is
regarding the storm water management not regarding any wetlands. >> So your lack of fulfilling 2445 excuse me. >> So would you would you justify your lack of fulfillment? >> Hang on hang on hang on. So applicant
has agreed to an absence presence letter um from both Pinelands and the D. So we're going to kind of tamper this down and and move on to another line of reasoning because they've already >> for the record the applicant is not compliant with 2445 for the record.
>> I I understand that's your opinion and it's the spirit and intent of it may or may not be. >> I also spoke with Keith Carter from the Pineel Commission this morning and you can open request it. >> I got it. I get it. >> Double down on what I'm saying. >> We got
>> 244 asks for an issued LOI from the NJD. >> We're going to say it's asking >> nowhere in the exception section >> and we're going to move on. Do you have another >> one last question? >> In the exception section of 2445, is there any language that alleviates you from fulfilling that LOI if within
the Pineman section? >> I don't believe so. Are you aware of any? >> There's not. There's no exception, which is >> I agree. >> Which is why you need an LOI. >> Um, last question. You're um justifying
the lack of NJD LOI as a result to jurisdiction of the Pinelands. >> I'm I'm not justifying the the processes to submit to the Pineelands. That's the process. >> The lack of LOI. It's saying the pinland
supersedes >> Adam. We're gonna we're gonna move on. >> Is the applicant is the applicant >> asked and answered. Jurisdiction >> is the applicant saying supersedes our ordinance >> because of the zone. The jurisdiction lies with the pine lines. They've agreed
to submit the letter of of absence or um presence, you know, to both jurisdictions to see what they say. So, at this point, we're just beating a dead horse. So, we're if you have another topic that you want to ask questions about, we can go on to that.
>> Does this board have the jurisdictional power to grant a variance on operating a school on a local road? >> I think that would be a question maybe for the planner. >> Okay. Good evening. Yes, in my opinion they
do. Clearly the board has taken jurisdiction of the application. The board professionals have reviewed it and based on my review of the structure of the ordinance. The requirements there are supplemental requirements for both schools and house of worship which clearly function um as a bulk variance
which is what we requested. you put the testimony on for the C2. It is my opinion that we certainly um can properly before be before the planning board as a specifically permitted use for an inherently beneficial use that needs only a bulk variance for the
frontage. >> Okay. Are you familiar when uh our master plan was updated? I believe you referenced a uh stale master plan. Uh stale >> I didn't reference a stale master plan. What I referenced was a stale classification of
>> could you define stale >> down back to 2007. So I believe that that was qualified as a local road in 2007 which is nearly 20 years or two decades ago and I also testified about change circumstances in the area since
it was designated. I didn't say that your master plan was stale. Your master plan is certainly within the statutory limits of 10 years. >> Could you define stale? I just did. >> Could you define stale? >> I think she just did it in a sentence. Asked and answered, Mr. Shay,
>> we're gonna say asked and answered. >> Understood. And when was Jackson's master plan last updated? >> Definitely within the past couple years. I want to say maybe 23. >> Was Jackson's master plan updated in 2025?
>> Again, I said maybe the past couple years or 25. >> No, I don't know. I'm asking. So definitely within the statutory time frame in in the late 20s, >> would that be stale given your definition? >> So again, I never said the master plan was stale. You >> No, no, I'm just I'm just asking. I'm not saying you said that. I'm asking
would the master plan be stale given your definition of stale? >> The master plan is within the statutory requirements for re-examination. >> Right. Okay. And then do you know which board was uh involved in the uh the production of that master plan? Well, since only the planning board has the power to adopt the master plan, the
zoning board does not. I'm going to say it was the planning board. >> Right. So, your testimony on uh why the local why the road isn't considered local uh would that be in direct contrast to how the board designed the plan?
>> It would not be in direct contrast. It's a variance. And I put in the statutory proofs for the grant of a variance for an inherently beneficial use which always presumptively satisfies the positive criteria. It is uncontroverted in New Jersey that schools are an inherently beneficial use. And we took
we at no point indicated that we didn't need a variance. We were here seeking the variance and we put the proofs on for the in my opinion very limited relief required in conjunction with this as of rate use before the planning board. Do planning board grants waiverss or do they grant variances?
>> They can grant both. >> At to what uh degree? >> I don't understand that. >> It's it's a legal test, Adam. So, each one has a different legal test. >> Understood. Okay. Thank you. >> Please raise your right hand. Do you swear or affirm to tell the truth, the
whole truth, nothing but the truth? >> Yes. >> All right. Please state your name and spell your last for the record. Ben Foster. B N Z I O N. >> If you could just talk. >> You have to get close. >> N Z I O N F O R S T E R. >> Just say that one more time for our board secretary.
>> B N Z I O N. Last name F O R S T E R. >> And your address? >> 10 Jefferson Court. >> All right. >> So last time I spoke was by my bar mitzv. I'm a little nervous. >> So So right now, uh there'll be a period where we can do general comment where you can tell us how you feel or your
thoughts. right now is cross-examination similar to what uh that man just did prior to you where it's direct cogent questions to whatever expert you're directing them at that they put the so engineering to the engineer planning to the planner traffic to the traffic
expert um so I'll let you go so I want to know I'm not sure who it's going to be directed to more about the operation first of all how many boys is going to how many high school kids is going to be at the school >> 120 >> at what age >> high 9th to
>> how well? >> 9th through 12th grade. >> 9 through 12th grade. >> Um, regards to Is there going to be any dormitories on site? >> No. >> Is there any nearby properties that the
owner from the school owns? >> No idea. >> So, this the house that's on the property now is being completely thrown down. No, it's going to be lived in the house by the rabbi. >> By the rabbi. >> That was a testimony.
>> And the the boys are not going to be there at any given time. Is that correct? >> I would ask that. >> So basically what I'm getting at is I want to know if there's ever going to be a time where uh usually for this age kids it's
you know a normal thing to have dormitories. >> So no dormator on site. Yeah. >> They're not going to site. So, how are they being busted? >> On a bus, >> right? Um, is the busing going to be praa busing or
public? >> Private. But I think Ellie, why don't you come up because now I'm been testifying, but this is all stuff that was went over at length, but we'll repeat it. Anthony, could you pull up um could you go to the second sheet of this set?
>> The the >> I think that's actually the townships. So, we might want to leave it here. Yeah. >> The um there's a loading area for busing. >> How many spots is there again? 25. You said uh parking spots.
>> Parking spots. There's a parking spot sufficient for 152 required spaces. >> Um on the off days, so there's plenty times where regular busing is not operating. How you plan on
having the kids bus to school? How are they getting there? I understand that the um applicant is busing the is busing the schools. I'm not sure what you mean by off date off if there's no school then they're not being busted because the school's closed. >> How about events?
Cuz as far as I saw on the planning on the plans there's going to be assh that means you're going to have events there which is going to have more people than the general operation. >> If there would be if there would be a lecture the the children would be there
the same way. They would be there via bus and if there would be any >> so adults would come in on a bus as well. >> No >> parents like >> if if if anybody else would come they would come by car >> that's on on the occasional lecture
that's given. Yes. >> Um how about outdoor where the where these boys going to congregate other than in the building? >> We there's an area over here where there's going to be a basketball court. That's a basketball court. That's
>> a basketball court in some yard area. >> Okay. Um, that's about it. Thank you. >> Seeing no one else come forward, I move to close the public crossexamination on this application and this application only. >> Second a motion.
I I now move to open the public comment portion for this application and this application only. Solen >> second demarzo. All in favor >> I >> now anyone can get up now. Uh share
thoughts. >> Yep. This is the general comment period. So we're going to li you to five minutes a piece. Um, and it's going to be anything, you know, your thoughts, your opinions as to the relevancy of this application. >> Good evening people. >> Please raise your right hand. Do you
swear and affirm to tell the truth, the whole truth, nothing but the truth? >> I affirm. >> Right. Please state your name and spell your last for the record. >> Sam Weintock. S Weintock. W I N S T O C K. >> And your address? >> 15 Grand Boulevard. >> Adjacent to the property. >> All right.
>> I'm a resident of Jackson. I would like to start first. I'm also a part of uh the community and I went through the yeshiva system and I have no issue with the yeshiva and we love yeshivas. Uh the only concern that I can say that we would have that this is a local area and
this is a local residential area which I haven't heard anybody to do any uh um search on how many kids there is in the area. Kids are crossing uh boys, teens all over the every single day at all times to go learn and pray and study
in the synagogue. This is a very residential local area which the street is approximately 25 to 30 ft of the road. A bus is around 40 to 45 ft. This is just on a safety concern. I think
this would uh concern any if everybody would live on the same area. This is nothing uh personal. This is just a safety concern as for hundreds of kids that live in the neighborhood which are crossing the the area daily and we don't
feel like this is a the right area for a yeshiva in this size with this capacity to be in a local street which and there's more than enough properties which are on a main artery that they can comply with and they shouldn't have to go for a variance like this and we hope
that you'll take in consideration of on behalf of a whole royal grove Um they all oppose this. There's over 160 residents living all at the close proximity on the Sabbath. We don't drive. Most of the kids don't have cars.
The yes is yeshiva which are the age of drivable. There's teen drivers with a bunch of kids. This is just a big safety concern and we just like to voice opinion. We hope you'll take this into consideration as a vote and uh to oppose that. Thank you.
>> Thank you. Good evening. >> Please raise your right hand. Do you swear and affirm to tell the truth, the whole truth, nothing but the truth? >> I solemnly swear I'll tell the truth. >> All right. Please state your name and spell your last for the record. >> Israel Freudenberger, which is Y I S R O
E L Freudenberger's F R E U D E N B R G E R. and I'm a resident of Grand Boulevard number 85. So, good evening. I'm not as articulate as the engineers and attorneys. I've
never done this before. And it's very sad that after moving to um Jackson, this is what we have to do. Let me just explain you. This is a quiet residential block with a couple families living
there with little kids. I've heard over here um arguments being made that it's this road, that road. I live there. So, please just listen to a resident. I live there. I'm telling you
this is dangerous. They say the boys don't come with cars. They do come with cars. Let me tell you, you could go to their yeshiva and look how many cars are there. And number two, number two, I just want to make it clear to everyone
over here. I personally offered them another lot, similar acorage on a on a commercial property where they could build this, however much school they want. I said, I'll change with you. You know, I'll make it work. And I'm coming here tonight and I'm
listening and I'm watching on the board is how how big the the the building will be where the traffic, you know, disabled bays. Why? How did we even get to this? Please just understand. I'm a father of
small of a wife of small small little kids running into the street. And I'm saying it now. You'll have 18year-old 19year-old kids there. the the way the way teenagers drive is not suitable for a small residential block. You know,
please please just take this into consideration. There's plenty places to build a school. I've offered a solution to so I'm not just uh opposing you know just where where this where this is is supposed to be you know whatever they
proposed is simply horrific and and and it's embarrassing that it got to this that I have to come up here and speak to a board and beg you know to leave a small road a small town road you know that's all I have to say and you tell
about traffic come they not there. Come in the morning at 9:00, you'll see on the corner of Royal Grove where the buses go in to pick up our kids. Have a look what's going on there. That's where these You're going to tell me they're only going to have two buses. Come on.
Come on. Let's call the bluff right now. >> Gentlemen, let me explain. We are recording. When you are clapping, we cannot be heard. We cannot hear. And we and you cannot be heard. So please,
it's not a popularity contest here. >> Correct. >> Thank you. Thank you, sir. >> Okay. Thank you very much for your time and have a good evening. >> See if I can handle the mic. >> All right. You can pull it forward to if you need be.
>> Right. We're on the taller side. >> You can pick it up. >> Pick it up. >> Yes. >> Please raise your right hand. Do you swear and affirm to tell the truth, the whole truth, nothing but the truth? >> Yes, I do. >> All right. Please state your name and spell your last of the record. >> Name is John Chapel. That's C H A P L.
Live on 871 Bowman Road. Jackson. >> I've a comment and a question. Common is as someone who lives on Bowman Road and sometimes finds myself on Grand Boulevard is very much neighborhood, right? There's a big development just to
the west of it there that we had on the screen a minute ago and this has a very much a uh a neighborhood feel. Kids playing in the street, very different from East Vets. So, I just wanted to make that statement. This is not really
I don't know the legality, but as someone who lives there, it doesn't feel like a connector. Is that the word you guys use? Connector. Very different from East Vets. People, children playing in the streets. Their behavior is the same
as if they lived in a small neighborhood. So, there's a risk there for pedestrians. No question about it. And as the traffic goes up, that risk is going to go up. And the second thing I wanted to just share is that it is by no means clear
where the responsibility of the zoning board ends and the planning board begins. There seems to be this porous overlap that makes it very difficult for those of us who are not lawyers to understand what's going on. So I just
want to say that not just for tonight but I've seen that here many times before. Thank you. >> Thank you. Yeah. So, just real quick. So, the the difference between the planning board and zoning board, um I'm sorry, I missed that. I was making notes. Um is that
when it's something the planning board is, it's a permitted use or a conditional use. Um that's expressly stipulated in the ordinance of the zone itself. If if it goes to the zoning board, it's one of six different variance types. uh the primary one being what's called the D1 use variance which
which it's not prohibited in the zone. So, uh, the zoning officer actually calls that out before it goes to anybody. Um, and then it gets fed through the system, um, until it reaches our engineer and then from our engineer, it goes to our board secretary or I'm sorry, it goes to our board secretary
first, then the board engineer, board engineer, uh, to the balance of the professionals. There there's a there's a um a flow through process that happens. Um, but when it's here, it's it's permitted pursuant to the ordinance. That ordinance is pursuant to the master
plan and the spirit intent of the legislators from the township. So it's um a distinct difference when it goes to the zoning board versus the planning board. Please raise your right hand. Do you swear and affirm, tell the truth, the whole truth, nothing but the truth? >> I do. >> All right. Please state your name and spell your last the record.
>> Holly Reynolds. R E Y N O L Ds. Uh three Mary Beth. >> All right. >> Um I had other statements to make but listening to about the local rosemary thing. I'm trying to understand why they would think that this isn't a local road, but doing my research, local roads
primary function is to direct people to the residential properties and often connects to a collector road, which in case this is what it is. And it was this planning board that on their master plan decided that this was a local road and
should remain as a local road. So, the fact that they want to come up with their own uh vision of what it they want it to be doesn't mean that it is that it isn't a local road. So, I see that the residents here don't want to get more
traffic and more of this type of situation because you're going to set precedents that if they can do it on this local road, then you can do it on any local road in this town. >> So, that is my first thing. The other thing which I wasn't going to go into is
that I've been hearing a lot with Adam about the whole thing with the LOI and the New Jersey Pineel Commission. I've worked in a state agency for over 20 years dealing with the D and stuff like that.
Just because the applicant's position that an LOI is not required due to pilance jurisdiction has not been substantiated with any citation to New Jersey D regulations or written determination from the D. New Jersey Pelands Commission does not
automatically displace New Jersey D freshwater wetlands jurisdictions. In many cases, both agencies have authority. Without an LOI or formal New Jersey DE determination, the board cannot legally de the application complete without violating its own
ordinance. Courts in New Jersey, including Peland's Preservation Alliance versus New New Jersey D, make clear that overlapping environmental agency regulatory schemes must both be satisfied unless there is a specific legal exemption.
There is no statutory or regulatory citation nor any New Jersey Determination demonstrating that the Freshwater Wetlands Protection Act does not apply here. Without that, the board cannot assume exemption and cannot ignore its own
ordinance requiring an LOI. So, it's not that pilots commission or D have the overall say. Municipal ordinances may impose additional or more stringent requirements so long as they are not preempted and are not inconsistent with state law or the pilot
CMP. The LOI would also show where there was testimony that there are no endangered uh or threatened species. Well, if you go on the New Jersey D portal on on the geo web or if you go even enter our own
master plan map, this is a rank three state and uh threatened endangered species. So, there are reasons why we have these ordinances to make sure that the environment is extra protected. Thank
you. >> Thank you. SEEING NO ONE ELSE COME FORWARD, I move to close the public portion of >> Oh, somebody else is coming forward. >> Hi, good evening. Shimmy Stra Shiman Stra is my legal name. Last name is S.
>> Hang on, hang on, hang on. Do you swear or affirm to tell the truth, the whole truth, nothing but the truth? >> Yes. >> All right. Please state your name and spell your last. >> Shiman Straer. Last name is spelled s t r a ss ss er. >> Lori, you good? Yeah. Um,
>> address. >> Address >> 79 Grand Boulevard. >> I myself, just like my neighbor, I live on the block. No professional, no public speaker, just concerned for the safety of my family. Four young children. And
my neighbors, we all have young children. They are all on the streets. They're playing. We came to this area to have to live more freely and give good quality of life to our kids. It's a local street, a local road, whatever it's called. And it feels that way. We
wanted to remain that way. Um I have nothing against the yeshivas. I myself went 133 yesa and we would love for them you know we'd love to oppose this and like my neighbor said we off somebody made an offer of
you know letting you know building the yeshiva somewhere else. This is all about safety and um you know there was about about a year ago this this resident right now
um there was a group of yeshiva boys that were there for the weekend and I had a little feel of that experience of that what that is even though it was during Sabbath where they don't drive cars but they were very very loud it did
not feel like the local road anymore and they were just Friday night making a lot of noise on the streets. Um it was just not pleasant. And that was just a group maybe of 10 15 u teenagers. Um I can't imagine what
that would look like with um over a hundred teenagers and I think somebody mentioned here something about hitchhiking. It's very very common for hitchhikers. Sure. You're familiar with cross street. Um couple of sheep is on that road and this hitchhiking uh all
the time. Um this would this small Grand Boulevard boulevard this local road would look something similar to Cross Street. Uh 100 teenagers in this area takes over the quality of life for my family, the
Grand Boulevard and the surrounding areas. Thank you Dan. Thank you. Raise your hand if anybody else is coming forward. How many more are coming forward? You're more than welcome. I just want to try to figure out. Okay.
Thank you. >> Two more. >> Do you swear? Affirm. Tell the truth the whole truth. Nothing but the truth. >> Yes. >> All right. Please state your name and spell your last of the record. >> Dave Schwarz. D A V Y. Last name is S C H. >> You just pull the microphone up closer
to you. Davy Schwarz. >> You can lift it up and pull it closer. Thank you. >> Should I spell my last name? S C H W A R TZ. >> All right. Your address? >> 57 Imperial Place in Jackson, New Jersey.
So, first of all, um I will say the same thing as my colleagues. It's for me very hard to come and speak over here regarding to a post to build a yeshiva next to me. I was myself in yeshiva. I believe in yeshivas. It's a very good thing, but it's not the place
to be. I live at the entrance of Royal Grove. My property is basically when I'm out of the property, I can see the entrance of Royal Grove coming in and out. I am very very concerned of having a
yeshiva there. I actually will say here publicly I do not believe that this is just a simple two buses coming in the morning and then two buses leaving in the evening. This is 120 teenage boys. We do know that in Lakewood in the last
year unfortunately I believe maybe five or six teenage boys died in accidents. And this is we believe that these teenage boys will come many of them with
their own cars come and go to and from the yeshiva and having teenage boys that just got a driver's license driving around Grand Boulevard coming out just across this the entrance from Royal Grove where all of our kids are still
walking going to the synagogue. But as it as it is, it is already very very dangerous with so many traffic, so many boys, so many people. Even if it's parents bringing their boys, bringing their kids back and forth and buses, this is a very very grave safety
concern. And this is I'm talking, I'm sure, for myself, my family, my neighbors. Not everybody could, you know, it's a it's a very hard time in the evening when we all have to put our kids to sleep to come here. But if that would be probably on a Sunday afternoon,
you would see probably here 120 or 150 people opposing this plan. Thank you so much. >> Thank you. >> Please raise your right hand. Do you swear or affirm the tell the truth, the whole truth, and nothing but the truth? >> Yes. >> All right. Please state your name and
spell out your last for the record. >> Aaron Auckman, G L U C M 66 Imperial Place, Jackson. >> I moved to uh Jackson in 2018. I came from Brooklyn, as a lot of us did, to
find a quiet place for our kids, have a backyard, you know, just be able to get out of the hustle and bustle. Um, my property comes out, my backyard is on Grand, which is literally where this school is going to be. Um, as a lot of
the my friends said, neighbors said, nobody's opposed to yeshiva in concept. We we all went to yeshiva. We're Jewish ourselves. We just don't think this is the right place for yeshiva to be. This is a, you know, local road. It's a quiet road. It's busy as is with people coming
in and out, little kids, and this is just not the right place for it. I think they would be better off in a commercial area somewhere where maybe it could come out to a highway, but definitely not a local road like this. That's why I oppose this and I hope that the board
will hear those concerns. I mean, as you can see, we're all having more or less the same type of concerns. So, you get the idea. Um, and I hope that you guys will uh take this uh to heart and hopefully make a determination. Thank you so much. >> Thank you.
>> Seeing no one else come forward, I move to close the public portion of the testimony on this application. Sullivan. >> Second. >> All in favor? >> I >> I >> I >> conclusion.
>> Sure. Thank you. Um, without belaboring a point, all the comments that I've heard really are treating this as if this was a prohibited use. And we know that if we were before the zoning board and we were present a school application, we would demonstrate that
the positive criteria was automatically satisfied under the price fee case as well as any bulk variances related to it. But in the township's opinion, this is a permitted use in the RG zone. This
is a mere bulk variance with a test which is much lower than a Dvariance. And I would say being that it's inherently beneficial use, it'd be very hard for the board to lawfully deny the application. What you also have to do is
you have to look at the ordinance and in the ordinance under the RG2 zone, there are a number of non-religious assembly uses that have no restriction on what road they could go on that would generate more traffic than this 120 unit
school, which majority of the students are going to come on a bus. There's going to be two, three buses max. 10% of the students would drive. So, you're talking 12 students and 12 staff. very low traffic generation compared to what could go there and be permitted on any
road in the township. So again, I would respectfully request that the applicant has satisfied the criteria necessary for the grant of the variance. They have agreed to a number of conditions that the board and your consultants have requested and I would ask respectfully
that the board would grant an approval. Thank you. >> Thank you. And just just if we just clarify the um there's two variances, correct? There's one for signage uh one for the arterial road and then two waivers
um one for loading zone and off streetet parking. Right? >> Not the parking itself. There were three design waivers referenced on page eight and nine of the Peters report. >> Right. Yeah. One for the the parking diameter. All right. Um so let me just
go over the legal standards with the board. Right. So um again there's two variances two waivers. So the board has to deliberate as to uh whether these legal tests have been met. Um the waiver standard is again for uh you can meet it
two different ways. Either undue hardship or impractability. Um the request has to be reasonable uh within light of it being made and also has to meet the intent of of the ordinance itself. All right. As to the C2 variances uh that are being
requested, uh the positive criteria which was testified to um sub has to substantially outweigh any detriments. Um as to the uh articular road variance uh they indicated that or miscapone
indicated that uh the testimony met A and G. A is guided development to promote public health, safety and morals. Uh G is to promote s uh to promote sufficient space in appropriate locations. Um, as to the second
variance, uh, which was as to the signage, she indicated that, uh, I believe it was criteria I that was met to create a desirable visual environment through creative development. Um, those are the legal standards. You guys heard
the testimony that you have to make a decision. >> Um, M. Demarzo and I spent uh, 18 months doing a master plan that was approved in
2025. We probably know every single road in Jackson and how it is classified. I read all the paperwork. I've retired, so I read all the paperwork. And I'm
looking at um Mr. raise the subject property is located on Grand Boulevard, a two-lane roadway. And I know that's a local road. I travel that road fairly frequently. I know it's not a highway. I know it's
not an arterial road. I know it's not a connector. It may look like a connector and smell like a connector, but it's not designated by the township as a connector. And there lies my problem. If the road is designated a local road
by the township, then the township would have to change that designation as far as I'm concerned before I could grant a waiver or a variance. And I and I would like Mr. Brezie to
who with whom I've worked on another master plan and plenty of other things over the years and he represents the township here. >> Now first first I'd like to address the sign variance when a professional gets up and says it's not really needed but
we'd like it. Uh I can give you my feelings on that right now on the road. And Miss Jennings, I'm well aware of your argument about schools on local roads. I think we discussed that for about 14 months. Um, and uh, we shown
for years we did that and I agree with that. But in recent years, we learned that don't work no more with the size of the town and the master plan left it a local road. I give all the respect in the world to Mr. Ray's testimony. I'm not arguing with him. I just think that
it's not right to grant that variance in my opinion. I'm only one person. Uh where this town is going and how congested is getting that we have to really watch the local roads we have. Um I really feel that it has to go to the
township council to do and uh I'm only one of them also. So I think that's what in my opinion what should happen. In all due respect, I know your argument and you're well at it. I respect you totally. Um, you beat me up enough years. Um, and uh, I understand the
argument that in the earlier years the home and school, the Rosen school all built in Brooklyn within local roads and that's come to a change in today's world. Jackson, thank you. >> Any other board members have a comment before we go for a vote?
>> Yes, I'd like to make a comment. Um, if it looks like a duck and it quacks like a duck, it's a duck. And that is a local road. It is not even striped. It is not wide enough in my opinion.
Uh, and if any relief were to be given, that would be h something that the council would have to do, not this planning board. We are not going to set the president of allowing schools on local designated roads, >> especially without widening.
>> Yes. >> All right. We'll look for a motion now, please. >> I'd like to make a motion to deny this application without prejudice uh given the fact that it is on a local roadway which is not prohibit uh is not
a pro uh prohibited use for this type of facility. And just just to be clear, so if we're denying it without prejudice, um is there a a condition involved in that?
>> Well, without prejudices, they can go to the council and request that the road uh be redesated. >> Okay. >> I think you should just do it with prejudice. We're just going to go to court. I don't not going to go to the council. >> That's fine. scare you.
>> Then I will uh change my uh motion. I move to deny this application with prejudice given that it is not the proper location for this facility. It skirts heavily the uh settlement with
the township and it is a local road whether you like it or not. I'll second that motion based on the local road issue and I feel there's been enough presence on that really um and the issue with the sign I think that would have to be go away just to be
clear right this this is a motion with prejudice >> to deny okay >> roll call Mr. Fres. >> I vote yes to deny the application.
>> Mr. Marza, >> yes. I vote yes to deny the application. Um there's no unique physical condition. Um the hardship is not caused by the shape, topography, or physical features of the property. The issue is a result
of the owner's desire to build a school on a local road, which is a self-created hardship. the variance. Any variance would fundamentally undermine the town's master plan and zoning ordinances changing the character of the
neighborhood. So, I vote to disapprove. >> Mr. Parks, >> I vote to deny. >> Mr. Rogers, >> I vote to deny. >> Miss Santoro, >> yes, I vote to deny. >> Mr. Tremer, >> yes, I vote to deny.
>> Mr. Sullivan. >> Yes. I vote to uh vote yes, which is to deny this application. >> Dr. Campbell. >> Yes. >> Thank you very much. >> Thank you. >> Yeah. >> I'd like to make a motion to close this
meeting. Sullivan. >> Second. Demarzo. >> All in favor? All right. >> Bye. Thank you. >> Yeah.