e e e e e e e e e e
e e e e e I pledge allegiance to the flag of the United States of America and to the Republic for which it stands one nation
under God indivisible with liberty and justice for all I was trying to let him get his breath all right everybody Welcome to the February 24th 2025 Jackson Township planning board meeting uh this meeting uh has been
appropriately noticed according to the open public meetings act and all the appropriate fors in places Madam chairman we'll have a roll call please Mr Bernstein here Mr marzo here Mr heler here Mr rer
here Mr Rogers here Mr treamer here Miss Rose here Mr weart here Mr wall here Mr Sullivan here Dr Campbell present thank you we'll have a um motion on payment
for voucher for the recording secretary please motion Bernstein second heler roll call please Mr B yes Mr marzo yes Mr heler yes Mr rker yes Mr Rogers yes Mr treamer yes Mr wal
yes Mr Sullivan yes Dr Campbell yes um we have two resolutions this evening yes resolution 2025-the granting preliminary and final minor
site plan approval with required variances for a house of worship Proposal with the development improvements for call benai Yakov blck 6801 lot 41 eligible to vote are Mr
Bernstein Mr marzo Mr heler Mr treer Miss Rose Mr weart Mr wall Mr Sullivan and Dr Campbell have a motion please motion Bernstein second
Sullivan Mr Bernstein yes Mr marzo yes Mr heler yes Mr treamer yes Miss Rose yes Mr weard yes Mr wall yes Mr Sullivan yes Dr
Campbell yes and resolution 2025-the ship of Jackson County of ocean state of New Jersey granting preliminary and final major site plan approval with required variances and design waivers for the construction of a retail
building for 10 Forest Hill Avenue LLC lock 832 lot one eligible to vote are Mr marzo Mr heler Mr reker Miss Rose Mr Sullivan and Dr Campbell motion please
motion Sullivan second de marzo Mr de marzo Mr heler yes Mr Riker yes Miss Rose yes Mr Sullivan yes and Dr Campbell
yes uh we do have a change to this schedule I know this will uh be distressing for you all but we have no uh applications for March 3rd and therefore we'll get a bit of a break and we will be cancelling that meeting we need need a motion in order to cancel
please I very happily make that motion Sol second tramer good good job Mr Trum and we'll take a roll call on that please Mr Bernstein yes Mr Moro yes Mr heler yes Mr rker yes Mr Rogers yes Mr
treamer yes Mr wall yes Mr Sullivan yes and Dr gam yes and we have some board matters for discussion first Mr rker okay folks uh as of February 28th I will be resigning the planning board as
I moving out of state uh this will be my last meeting and conclude my service to the planning board in the township of New Jersey I will hear this application thank you and we have a little presentation for you I thought was a
all of you as well I'd like to say that this board is well organized more so than any other board and I'll even say it's more organizing counil we all work together and I really do appreciate what's going on here and I
wish each and every one of you great success my colleagues over here um it's been a great experience I've known earning for years before this and been pleasure work with everybody and for secretary you don't realize what you
have until you don't have a secretary I don't have one on the environment a l there we go thank you about M chair just on behalf of Mayor Michael Rita and the administration want to wish Mr rker all the best and thank you very much for your service to the community it's greatly appreciated thank
you sir all right uh we are in the process of the a training video on storm water management um make sure that you've all logged in uh to our site and that you
watch the video within the next 30 days you have a night off so there's no excuse and uh you have to send an email then to our secretary and let her know that you have watched it it's really pretty good I I watched it today it was
about 40 minutes um and if you were not at the last meeting there is also a uh religious land use laws a tutorial on the website please take advantage of
that you we uh that's a requirement as well uh regarding the master plan a thorn in our side but it looks as if the um uh there has been progress on the
land use portion that has been required by the state and uh now we're awaiting some review uh of that documentation so that we can include that within the master plan
and hopefully that will happen soon Mr attorney right very soon okay we also uh have an ordinance review tonight and our attorney will lead us through that yes we do um we have two ordinances
uh but only one of them applies to us so uh after conferring with the town of attorney we decided that uh ordinance 0125 uh is not a development ordinance um it's it's an enforcement uh mechanism uh so to speak dealing with property maintenance so that doesn't fall under
our jurisdiction uh ordinance 0525 does um and I'll I'll leave that to the planner to put his testimony on the record Madam chair um 244 168 B defines
what um lookalike dwellings are in town it sets forth standards um it hasn't been reviewed in over 25 years and based upon comments of municipality and the department heads had received there was an update to that which is before you
this this evening to make the process of determining if something's look alike easier for both applicants and the municip IP ality that's the gist of it if you go into the existing ordinance it says a lot of the same
words it's a differentiation between how many things make you cross that line into non-compliance and I think this ordinance clarifies what the intent of the governing body is as it relates to one a single and two family dwellings
our office takes no exception to it is drafted and would recommend the board um to act affirmatively and recommend it back to the the governing body for second reading it Council level are there any questions from this board
yes so in looking at the original um ordinance there were four different um items one that's been removed now is the size type and location of windows and doors in the front
elevation um that are without substantial differentiation so what does what does that mean that seemed would it seem to me that we would want to keep that in there but I'm just curious as to why that was
removed o over the course of the last two or three decades when you look at some of the housing types that we had in in town we think about the good good oldfashioned Center Hall Colonial on one side you have one one size window on another side you used to have an old size window look in the brookwoods you
look at some of the larger houses on um one acre lots we have a lot of houses sort of Center Hall Colonial both sets of Windows are the same and so asking developers to and or residents to change that standard you end up with two sets of
Windows um I'm only tangentially involved in having reviewed it with some of the people who helped draft it but it was meant to make the process easier again across the counter between the people who revie View and approve it and the
people who submit it so while three of the four comments were put together into the two comment you see here and instead of one of the things causing that problem now they're asking for both of the things to cause that issue that's a determination that came
from staff it wasn't something from a Pon High where we said this this has to get done it was a Reconciliation of the things that the um both the building department the zoning department and code enforcement have to deal with and it's interesting because
although it's they who have to deal with it we have to vote on so it's well understand that 30 years ago it was in the the design section of the ordinance not unlike the ordinance we're not hearing tonight there was a place there
was a need to put it someplace this just as easily could have been in another section of the code not related to chapter 244 Land Development but it is and so from that perspective we're obligated to review it and make a recommendation so from that perspective both from a planning perspective and
from an administrative perspective it makes sense given the issues that the town and applicants were having getting this section of the code reconciled with their submissions does that does that
clarify for you Mr um a little anyone else I do have one more question I'm sorry sorry that's the difference between and I I looked this up and I just I'm not
getting it so just forgive me but substantial change in orientation versus substantial differentiation what is what's the difference in those two I'm not sure I could tell you because I don't process
the permits it's it's really coming from I gather Mr papo's office and don't feel bad I've called everybody uh the attorney I called I said what the heck is this let me let me lay the playing
field a little bit better so the sandbox that we have to work with here is a little weird right because um ordinarily something like this wouldn't ordinarily come before us because it's not exactly like ordinance specific right when it comes down
to certain aspects um this is more of like design criteria area right so the only reason why it's coming before us procedurally um is because for whatever reason the way it was designed back in I think the late 60s or early 70s is that
it was uh this type of of uh information was lumped into the L use section of the Jackson Municipal Code within and it's the same reason why the other one was actually sent to us um and then myself and the and the township attorney had to get together and say okay this doesn't make any sense because it's enforcement
related it's not development related so the only reason reason why it's in front of us to make everybody's lives a lot easier is is only because it's in the land use section um ordinarily it wouldn't have come in front of us because of what it's of the criteria
that is changing so Mr marzo I you and I when you first joined the board had a conversation about architectural design standards and well I don't want to sort of go down that rabbit hole this evening I'm happy to talk to you about it afterwards if we get out early the idea of was this meant to be fenestrations in
other words you should have brakes in the facade window so as you look at it either from the front or from the side it doesn't look cookie cutter those words aren't in Jackson Township's ordinance they're in fre Township's ordinance or someone else's ordinance so to the extent that perhaps either
through the master plan committee or a subsequent review we say Hey listen let let's put this in a different language that we understand I perceive this is more of a generational thing there's an issue with residents Andor builders getting this process reconciled at the
cter so unfortunately they couldn't just take it to the governing body have the governing body change it introducing a land use ordinance they had to come down to us we have to go back to them but I'd be more than happy to have a conversation with you about it quite frankly it's a little interesting but
not sure I'm not sure it's a land use issue yeah exactly and what's going to happen is that whenever anybody makes a change they're going to have to go for a zoning permit then go for a building permit anyway so as long as it compli with the international business code it's kind of we're never going to see this in front of the board because
whenever you go for building permits it's it's a different jurisdiction you know so it's kind of like they're they're asking us almost to weigh in on on international business code out of our lane issues and yeah exactly it's kind of out of our lane so to speak but it has to come in front of us because
this is is part of the L use section of the Jackson Cod so um it's kind of like a default thing you know as someone who sits on a federal um committee I I can tell you um IBC is
even out of the jurisdiction of federal committees and large departments so this is really beyond our purview this is more just a um a pass along basically a review pass along any anyone else comments we'll take a motion then one
way or the other please I make a motion to um to deem it consistent with the master plan to say that this is consistent with our master plan ordinance 5- 2025 a second
please second second Bernstein we'll have a roll call vote Please Mr Bernstein yes Mr marzo no Mr heler yes Mr rker no Mr Roger
yes Mr trer yes Mr wall pass Mr solivan yes Dr Campbell yes thank you all right I think we finished our
um business and we can move on to our application Madam chair the minutes from the last meeting oh I'm very sorry minute I knew I lost my list it's under here somewhere all right we'll we'll take a motion to accept the minutes
please motion de marzo second Sullivan uh can we do an all in favor yes all in favor I I okay I think I've got everything okay there we go now we can move on to the application
sorry to keep you waiting Mr alfair but had housekeeping good evening Madam chair members of the board no problem it was we're going to miss you Mr rker U salvator alfery clear Jobe alfery and Jacobs on behalf of the applicant
this is a um sh application for a conversion of a a a single family home into a house of worship uh we have received reports from from Doug dated February 20th Ernie febru February 18th
we have a police report January 25th um CME report from the LTE February 18th fire report as well fe uh December 9th we have three witnesses that we're going to be presenting tonight once you you your professionals um comment uh we
have our engineer we have an architect and then we have the traffic expert and there are members from the sh here in case the board members have questions of them thank you Mr albery gentlemen thank you madam chair um simply like the um
applicant has indicated it's conversion of an existing um dwelling to a uh to a house of worship um there is one existing condition variance but other than that it's it's pretty clean um my first report um indicated that architectural joins were not provided as
does my second report but um architectural joint have been submitted so we should have some testimony from the applicant regarding the um architectural features but as I indicated it's it's compliant except for an existing front yard with ordinance standards what Doug
said um my favorite kind of meeting we had a concern with regards to the slope of the driveway going up um there's some topography in the site just want to make sure that that's safe that congregants have a to the best extent practicable that we keep the slope as shallow as
possible for people driving in and driving out especially during bad weather other than that we have a report it's in evidence we'd ask the applicant to make um make some comments about it for resolution compliance thank you thank you thank you um we're going to request that Mr Halper be um
acknowledged yeah uh engineer and planner or just a engineer and planner Varian do you swear or firm to tell the truth the hold truth nothing but the truth I do all right please state and spell your last with the record Eric Halpert HPT licensed professional engineer and planner in the state of New
Jersey I've testified before this board before these plans were prepared by my office is regular yeah board accept the grals yes we're pleased to see you thank you thank you and Mr Halper before you begin with the technical testimony can
you first identify for the board um where this property is located and identify the exhibit that's on the screen please so we can have have that marked in front of the board is exhibit uh the entire set will Mark exhibit
A1 on the screen is an aerial view the site is located on the north side of heisen road near the intersection of Scotland Avenue and the site is um in the blue area over here there's a paper
Street hover Road um that is shown on the aerial there is no Street it's a paper streets and um this property is in the uh R1 Zone I believe it is and and the
houses of worship are conditional uses within the Zone correct houses of worship are permitted uses under the current ordinance permitted uses I'm sorry and um there are certain standards within the ordinance that the houses of worship need to meet and we've met those conditions we have met those conditions
and we'll discuss further go ahead and should I go through the um I have been in contact with the um applicant and I will go through the statement of operations first um the applicant is seeking to convert
um the single family home a two-story by level to a place of worship the um proposed Renovations will include both um a um area for um a a
main s uary there are accessory uses on the lower floor including U Mikvah and I will go through the um uses and the timing um Services begin uh during the
week approximately 7 a.m. and end 8:45 a.m. Services take place in the evening as well 8:00 p.m. and end approximately 9:30 p.m. Sundays the service times vary
slightly 7:45 a.m. and and 9:30 a.m. on Saturday on shabis services are longer and people are only walking the estimated there are approximately 60 member congregants 60
member families during the week approximately 30 congregants attend the services some walk approximately 15 congregants arrive by car there is additionally as mentioned um and shown on the architect plans um
mikf use in the lower floor and the architect will go through the um the floor plan there is um under 2,000 square ft of MC fuse with a shared room and three changing
rooms the you the times of uses um will be associated with the morning prayers for the men and women will use the Mikvah Friday nights when they're able to walk only those are the uses of the
Mikvah and refu there is refuse um there is a a refu enclosure shown on the plane and that will be provided by um private hauler and the um
um the um the recyclables will be um picked up by the township and the applicant is also proposing storm water management facilities that will be maintained by the applicant by the owner and it has public uh water and the there
is public water and sewer available on the street and the applicant is in receipt of um preliminary approval from the MUA for connection uh for the uh water and sewer thank you so can we now turn to the C can we ask questions about the
operations yes please as long as we're on that subject um are there any uh social rentals no going to take place it will all be used by the congregation correct all and and there is actually no social hall so okay that was one
question and um I was there Sunday it's going to be very nice it's a it's a great location um I was there Sunday and there was a great deal of on the street parking of course now because there is no or at least not much off street
parking uh could we agree that there will be no parking on the street we yeah we could we could petition the governing body to adopt an ordinance we have no control over that but if they're if they're inclined to do both both sides of the street I noticed there was a good deal of parking probably I think I might
have counted up upwards of 25 30 cars uh and and that's a you know highly traveled roads so it would be good if there were no parking on the street um if the board makes that a condition we'll write to the mayor and councel and request that that's a condition okay
thank you done anyone else have any questions about hours of operation yes so how many um on Friday nights do how many people do you expect to walk to the Mikvah because I went by there today and there's sidewalk on one side but
there's not on the other and it seems to be to be somewhat dangerous considering that it is a highly traveled road so could you how many not more than three people on a given Friday night three yeah because
there's only three changing rooms there are three changing rooms and it wouldn't even be anticipated to have two shifts um the purpose of this accessory Mikvah would be um only for only again only for Friday night when people don't have the
ability to go to the to a larger Facility by car and um it would not be anticipated to be served to to serve have you considered a a sidewalk I know I what worried me when I saw it was that
it is very steep as was mentioned and um I was concerned about Walkers particularly in bad weather I mean it it's dark dark dark Madam chair if I might I I apologize for interrupting but
if you visited the site and you can imagine with that steep slope we're going to ask them off the edge of pavement we're not going to let them put sidewalk right there we're going to make them put a four or six foot area before we put a 4ot flat area in front of the property at some point that becomes cost
prohibitive so let me offer you the Ernie peters's wacky idea of of February if for some reason the board's looking for a safe route to get off of heisen into the site as about if they bring sidewalk down along the
drive area in some format because I assume the drive up is going to require some retaining walls on either side and then some sort of crosswalk to the sidewalk across the street so it's almost as though you're creating a te intersection with the driveway and Heist
if you were a good oldfashioned housing developer building three houses over there you'd be put inside walk in on your side on the north side of the street that may be you're going to take down more trees it quite frankly is not a lot of trees it may be somewhat cost prohibitive in order to accomplish that
but perhaps if we figured out a way to make a crosswalk to the sidewalk on the south side of heis opposite where the whether it's the stairs into the building wherever it is find one spot and build some sidewalk out to the road put a crosswalk there so people can if
they need to walk on the south side of heis find a place with a crosswalk and safely cross onto the site similar to what they did at Grand Boulevard yes I mean it it ain't a great design folks but but it'll work there's there's a
practical part here of it's functional yeah safety is always our very first concern understood and when we bring the site plan up we are putting a sidewalk in so you should see that and then make your decision all right good thank you
can I add to that and if we go up and down that street if we see all the past developments and houses that have improvements I don't know maybe that's way it was years ago but this town always made curbs and sidewalks be put in no matter what for safety
reasons and I think it's very important because again I'll put my fire department hat on evacuation purposes now apparently they're not going to give us 270° around the building for fire department
access so you're going to have people standing in the parking lot where they're going to go we're we're not we're not there yet but we'll we'll get there I agree with you one of the things that has happened in this town over the decades I've lived here um the five of
them uh if you were building a a development or a community of five 10 15 homes and they did require we did require sidewalks but if there was one home or two homes they were individual
homes sidewalks were never required so that that makes it you know maybe we should be thinking about taking that those sidewalk funds money and putting in some sidewalks in some places that have developed one house two houses
three houses uh we have to think we have to think about that well it also helps the process move along because you know there's going to be a lot of improvements on that road I mean 25 years ago exactly like you said I had a house custom built and they waved the
curbs and the concrete apron which years later became a massive problem because now when the township wanted my children to walk cross grass now the Border vet had to come in and actually the day they came in the road was so tight two buses
hit mirrors going in there and the poor lady went we have to change this so it's always been in my head and that's safety you know anybody Walks Like Mr marzo said if you know they're going to cross the street that's a tough Street to
cross number one now number two let's say it's a little bit dark where they going to go somebody could fall get hurt so it's it's something that we really need to start changing the problem is that's more of the purview of the Town Council and the mayor than it it could also be us pushing the hands too so I mean we can request things we can't make
it mandatory but I'm tired of hearing that we need to start voicing more he we have to follow the law we we have to follow the law we can request things that's what I'm saying Joe but we can't but we can't mandate them
okay Mr reer I know we're not in traff traffic safety yet uh given the constraints on the site with the topography I would tend to agree with Ernie Peters but I will make a statement on Grand Boulevard
uh I asked for five foot sidewalks it was in the resolution and when I drive by there's three foot sidewalks yep so however that happened shame on that office um and the reason that I asked for that was because I
didn't want a pedestrian to get hit so what I'll ask for in this instance is if you would Mr uh would you petition the town at least put uh some kind of sign out
uh as a warning sign for pedestrians because the last thing that I would like to to to hear about in the news is that somebody who was wishing to attend Services got clipped by a car um the topography doesn't support it although I
would agree with Mr Tremor in any other case but uh if you would just petition a town uh I think you know even a a painted side uh painted crosswalk would help I know that you can't have a uh a
button to push you know given the situation on chabas I do respect that but some kind of visual warning to the motorist that you're approaching an area with high pedestrian traffic thank you I believe Grant Avenue has a flashing
light it does and I would ask that we make that conditional that they request the town put a flashing pedestrian cross this is a county road too it's it's not the town
oh that's right County Road sorry so so the they would so if the if the county decides to do improvements they would be on on the hook for their Prat share um but that's kind of an agreement that they have with the county when it's like Outside Agency approval yeah Dr C Dr
Campbell I just want to put out there that the County's been very receptive we recently had some other County Roads with signage um that we send a request we got a we got a response within two weeks the mayor got a response so I'm pretty confident we make a similar request here to address everyone's concerns there I think we'll get that
taken care of thank you yeah and and we will ask the as assuming it's approved as a condition approv we we'll petition the county and do whatever they allow us to do not the not the light the um signage and the signage yeah thank you thank you
sir all right so Mr Halper can you bring the site plan is the next sheet I assume well um Anthony could you bring up a 80 civil the Civil we we we could uh get into the site plan and clarify what is being proposed regarding sidewalk um and this still part of the
A1 exhibit this is the submitted s plan could you go to um sheet three and could use uh zoom in a little bit uh just to thank you down yeah good thank you um so just
to clarify from the re regarding the recent discussion the applicant there is existing sidewalk across the roadway and the applicant is proposing curb and sidewalk across the frontage the current s plan does not show um sidewalk at the
last uh 10 ft however that can be the reason for that is because there is very steep grade on the adjacent property it would require a some retaining wool but that can be modified and the side what could be extended across um the entire
Frontage so the applicant is able and is proposing curb and sidewalk um and regarding the um placement of a crosswalk I will wait for the traffic expert to provide testimony regarding
the optimum placement of uh of of a potential crosswalk should the county agree um but the applicant is definitely willing and is proposing curban sidewalk across the frontage and there is existing UMB side how wide is the
proposed sidewalk the proposed sidewalk is shown as four feet a typical four feet if the board would like something wider the applicant would be willing to do that as well and it is showing a connection to to the front of the
building from the Street sidewalk for Walkers and specifically in mind for walkers on on the shabus yeah and the slope is 70° right I'm sorry what's the slope the slope is 70° the the the property is steeply slop
yeah it's pretty significant significant slope but there is a this um the grading can be with raining walls and Grading it can be we can maintain 7% under you know one on one on
12 with Landing areas yes so so you are providing a sidewalk we are providing sidewalk yes there was a section toward the end of the property that the plan did not show sidewalk because of grading but the applicant is willing to revise the plans and provide sidewalk and I
will let please make that a condition I'm sorry make that we'll make that a condition of approval yes okay and um I will leave the crosswalk location for the traffic experts fine thank you okay so let's get into the site plan details
the site yes so regarding the site plan uh um it is showing a driveway located to the east of the building away from Scotland Drive the site has received County
approval and although there is a paper Street uh uh adjacent to the property I did have a conversation with the county today to confirm that their typical 30 by 100 site triangle would not interfere
they would be okay with the driveway in the location and will require an ashto site triangle and they have the county has no issue with the driveway in this location um the county has approved the plan they had some comments regarding
some extra widening that is not shown and the applicant will be widening the road um to uh will be widening the road per the county comments the site plan demonstrates 41 parking spaces there will also be EV spaces which are not
shown on the plan there will be two EV spaces there is a refu um enclosure shown on the plan ada8 parking spaces the building as we said is existing and the proposal is only for interior Renovations the only exterior
Renovations are to provide Ada ramp and um the applicant will comply with the comments from the reviewer regarding um GR in for the Ada ramp as mentioned earlier the um Anthony could you go to
the next page just uh so we see the grading um the property exhibits um steep topography the site is designed to um with walls with grading to provide
as best um a parking area a driveway access and a walk area that will still be um able to be utilized comfortably we do believe in the um there in addition to um the topography there also is a
somewhat high water table um that uh the applicant has to deal with so considering all of the topography issues and the um high water table um and there will be some modifications as per a comment um in the board Engineers
letter regarding a seasonal high water table at the subsurface infiltration Basin um the applicant um I do believe that this is a um acceptable design there is a one on8 slope at the
beginning of the driveway for approximately 50 ft beyond that the slope lessons and in the parking area in order to make sure the car is parked the doors don't go the doors don't stay open or don't
close on you don't close on the um on the uh users um the grading is like a typical um like a typical parking area and how would the drainage work now that we have that there the drainage consists
of a surface infiltration a subsurface infiltration with an outlet and it complies with the storm water regulations this is the area where there's a surface infiltration Basin this area is kept
open so applicants the the O the users could walk and this is a subsurface infiltration Basin there do need to be some minor modifications to the design per a comment and those can be um achieved the U parking lighting can you
describe that ask that lighting the could you go to um Anthony could you go uh another you want to go back to that and stay on you all right we could go to
um could you go another uh six or seven sheets one more okay the applicant is proposing a combination of pole mounted lighting and wall mounted lighting to comply with the ordinance and the applicant will be able
to comply with any comments from the um review letters and I'll go through the review letters as well may I make a a comment on the lighting please on the uh operations time period what time will
the lights go off the applicant would be willing to accept a recommendation from from the board I would think within a half an hour after the last service
ends at 10 o00 the lights could go yes the lights could go off at 10 o'clock 10 o' thank you and Ju Just for the uh for the neighborhood can you put the um Shades the shields yes yes cutof Shields can be
provided yes um a couple more points I don't know if we have to go through the reports line by line we'll get to that in a minute but a couple other questions one is the Landscaping you have a landscape plan can we show the board proposed go back
one I think it could you go Anthony you could go to the exhibit set to the um third sheet of the exhibit set perfect the applicant is pro is is proposing um Landscaping to comply with the ordinance there have been some comments received
from the uh Township Forester and I will work with SH with the township forest or with Sherry to provide U modifications to the to the Landscaping um but it is a robust
landscape and buffering plan and um any comments provided by the Forester are able to be complied with and I know that um I think Mr rker particularly in the past we're not proposing any identif side identification signage
correct we are not presently proposing any side identification you've made requests in the past to put something out front a little Monument we have no objection if that's something the board I I highly would make the recommendation that you do have some kind of signage for emergency purposes uh you know you
is street address would be sufficient street address that the applicant is willing to propose a monument sign with the monument signed with the street address in compliance with in compliance 2 uh yes is that I think it's in everybody's interest yes we agree we
discussed it we knew we we offered it rather than giving you a chance to ask for it so yeah know you just stealing all my thunder tonight um and then there another comment in one of the reports is these are multiple tax Lots so we would consolidate the Lots as condition of approval correct yes and then the only other thing we didn't talk about before
we get into the reports is the variance can you just describe for the board what the variance relief is and and justify uh why it should be granted as part of this application one second before we uh go on to that now that we're on signs um the board's been recently requesting that the applicants put coming soon sign
so people know what's going there um this work with the board on that okay it's a it's a we want a sign with with the with a color rendering so that people know what is being built being
recorded please be careful thank you and just to mention as well um we have received um a letter from the fire and um the applicant is able to comply with um the comments um the Fire
official is um approves in general of the site plan and there were comments regarding placement of hydrants and the applicant will be able to comply with that um the Fire official provided a review for um an initial submission that
the board is not looking at right now with a different um placement of the driveway however um I did sit with the Fire official with this current um submission um that is in front of the
board and he has no the there are some minor modifications as to placement of um hydrant and other um items but the Fire official will be able to approve the current submission as well um
there's also a police report dated January 28th which had some minor comments about the parking lot we're okay to address those yes you already indicated that the CME LTE letter of February 18th we would address correct
yes so fin we have um Ernie's report February 18th and and Doug's report February 20th I don't know you didn't talk about the variant we'll get there but since we're talking about reports are there any technical comments contained within these reports that you
need to comment then on or cannot comply with as a condition of approval we're able to comply specifically we will add um the sidewalk and we're able to comply with other comments all the comments in both reports all the com the traffic expert
will discuss certain waivers needed understood regarding traffic yeah and regarding um Landscaping the applicant is able to comply and will provide the required screening as per the ordinance and required Heights of the um
Landscaping all right so can you just now go into the variance testimony please um can you go back one page Anthony just uh could you zoom in just to the
building area uh the dimension may not be completely clear but on the S plane um there's a dimension to the front of the building thank you Anthony um to the right of way of
42.5 feet 42.50 feet the um ordinance requires a front setback of 60 feet and the applicant is seeking approval for this um s plan application with a front setback of 42.50 um feet the condition is an
existing condition and um I believe that this can be granted under a C1 hardship the structure it uh C1 is by reason of an extraordinary or exceptional situation
uniquely affecting a specific piece of property or the structures lawfully existing thereon this application involves a specific piece of property with a structure lawfully existing thereon and it is my opinion that this would be eligible for a C1
hardship without getting into the C2 hardships C2 uh variants I'm sorry regarding the negative criteria there will be no substantial detriment to the public good associated with this application the applicant is promote is proposing a permitted use and will
provide for significant improvements to the existing conditions of the site there is a substantial Landscaping package with buffers provided on both sites sides of the building and as a permitted use the proposal will
not impair the purpose and intent of the Zone plan and the zoning ordinance and is my opinion that the board would be justified in approving the variance and granting the variance relief and other than that existing condition variance
it's fully compliant with all other ordinance Provisions correct it is fully compliant there are comments and the applicant is able to comply with any comments and is not seeking variance relief from any other um uh sections of the
ordinance that's all we have of the engineer planner mam chair Mr Peters Mr CLE any concerns uh just two questions um will we need a municipal soil removal permit
no the building is existing and there is some cut some fill and we will not be exceeding 1,000 cubic yards um and we can add a note to the join indicating that I'm sorry we can add a note to the yes indicating that um
and the only other question um the intersection of heis and of the paper Street Handover um it looks like on um one of the plans sidewalk from I'll say it looks like the adjacent kisac development comes up to
where the easterly side of hover would be there's already curbing across the front um could the applicant Pro install curb sidewalk across the frontage of Hanover yes the applicant is willing to do that and we I think we need position
commission from the town probably too on that but sure we have no issue with it okay so just connect the sidewalk this property across okay just seems to make sense if that that sidewalk wraps all the way around that Jason culdesac just kind of makes sense that's all thank you thank you Mr Peters anything just about
the driveway the driveway slope is one on8 and um the reason why it's one on8 is because um we did have the um seasonal high water table and it is only for approximately 50 ft and I do believe
that that um is going to be safely uh maneuvered I think it's important to double check this before you go out in the field and try to build it because if it's 12 a half% for the first 50 feet and you put flat sidewalk
in in the driveway you're going to bottom Vehicles out that you'll vertical curve changing grade yes yes you have a changing grade of 12 a half% you're going to bottom Vehicles out there so while again it it may not be the most cost-effective design it needs to be a
safe design so perhaps your office of Mr C's office could review something where you try to get the slope down a little bit um I just have a concern people getting in and out of the site and then obviously during bad weather I could
work with Mr C's office thank you thank you any any questions from the board at this time yes Miss de Marza um if we could talk a little bit more about the variance so this was an existing is that it's just existing
existing but it was a single family home correct yes so now we're looking at putting in a um a house of worship where there's going to be a lot of people not just a single family
residence that is correct regarding the um Provisions uh Prov Ed to qualify for a C1 variance um it is what stated is um a lawfully existing structure so yes the
applicant is proposing a completely new use um the structure is lawfully existing on this specific piece of property um and therefore um I do believe that it would qualify for the C1 hardship and and we're not making exterior Renovations so it's still going
to look like a house out front and the activity is really behind it with other than people walking there all the activity the parking lot's behind the building so the front yard setback does not impacted in any way by that parking activity but it will look like a house
we're not touching the outside thank you and it's the same footprint same yeah everything's same just interior renovation and the footprint was a result of the slope of the property probably when I don't know when
it was built I don't know the only exterior Renovations are the added Ada ramp in the back and that is shown on the architect plan and that is in the back yes do you think the fir truck can get in that driveway to get around the back
I I the this I I we are showing the circulation plan and I did sit down with Mr Gman in my he we we sat down and he looked at the plan and he um is comfortable with the plan but he only looked at it one dimensionally he just
looked at what you're giving him the angle of the driveway this fire truck will do $10,000 worth of damage to the truck to get it in that lot we know this well he is aware of it has been
approved by the fire department not we don't have final sign off we don't have final sign off he is a wear of the property and of the slope of the property and I I did discuss the project with him prior to completing the plans and he is very aware of this
specific piece of property and you'll have to get the fire approval to complete resolution compliance 100% yes and we have no objection if you want when we submit this final plan to him to point out the slope out front so it's not just glossed over let him
specifically focus on that after we work with Doug on fine-tuning it right you have to realize something these firefighter ERS are very good people they're not engineers and they're inundated with a lot of
information so I am not sure if he especially realized the grade that you're looking at I mean they bought this fir TR this is the one that's 90,000 the first time they took this fire truck out they pulled into the
Burger King parking lot and did $10,000 worth of damage all right so can we have when we speak to Mr CLE about that can we have him look more carefully at that since he's the board engineer yeah I mean I think it needs to go back to a little bit and okay address
that thank you we'll move on thank we're going to call our architect and uh for for anyone wish waiting to speak what we'll do is listen to all the testimony first and then um residents can ask questions of those who
have testified so Anthony we're going to go to the architectural plan we're going to have to have you sworn in have your uh we'll have you sain have your mic right here stay right you can just stay right
there do you have your microphone do you swear or affirm to tell the truth the hold truth nothing but the truth and uh spell your name or say your name and spell your last name it's on the bottom c a t h e r i n e Flores is f l o
r s you have that L and miss you hey just State your credentials for the record credentials I am a licensed architect in the state of New Jersey for about 17 years I received
my formal education at NJIT I hold the Bachelor of architecture degree obviously and I have testified I was probably nine years ago I was here before all right do the board accept the credentials yes I'm welcome thank you sit down you don't look like you were
practicing N9 years ago um okay sit and relax so your office prepared the plan that we're going to discuss tonight correct okay can you just run through the board you heard us describe the front of the house are there any modifications to the exterior
of the front of the house or will it still look like the single family home that exists today correct it will still look like the single family home that is so can you run through the I guess we should just go to the the the floor plans if you want correct and I think should we starting the lower level than
Nika so let's just get Anthony on the right page and this is going to be A3 is your architectural set okay page four Anthony as mentioned previously there is a mikva on the lower level there's a separate men's and women's section you
just speak into the microphone sorry there's a separate men's and women's section the south side of the plan is the women's which we did mention earlier that there are three changing rooms obviously to be used by the women only on Friday evenings the northern side is the men's area and that actually doesn't
have separate changing rooms it's more of a locker room style for the men with separate showers and their separate Mikvah they have a separate entrance from the back and the women actually have two entrances but we'll primarily use the one on the front which is the southeast corner of the building
and then the next floor so the next sheet is the main floor of the building which is the main worship space is the next sheet back Anthony oh yeah he's ahead of us there there we go um as mentioned
it's just a two-story building existing structure the east side of the plan is the main sanctuary and as mentioned already the entrances are from the west side but primarily from the back these plans do show the um accessible ramp that will come
off of the back sidewalk and kind of wrap around the west side of the building in order to get to the main entrance uh for you of the building and then women do have their own entrance which is the southwest corner of the building um they do not need the ramp going there they have a simple stairway that goes to their section um that
obviously not used as often as the main sanctuary for the men but as mentioned previously there are no uh plans to ex expand the building at all this is existing footprint all the renovations are on the interior besides that
exterior ramp on the North side and then if you do want to go to the next shoot Anthony please this is the elevation so the top left corner is the street facing side it clearly still looks like a single family house that wa
didn't Anthony can you go back one more f f yeah the the other way please one more correct so these are all the existing um existing and proposed elevation that do show the ramp but it
still shows that it does look like a single family home and that's all we have of the architect Madam chair are there any questions yes Mr rker okay to touch on this subject
because it involves the structure itself uh is there any exterior lighting proposed on the structure currently no the only one that we would add would be at the main entry doors per code for egress you would want
the e exit entry doors to be illuminated in case of an emergency okay what what I would not like to see uh when I drive down some other streets in different uh municipalities is the ability to read a newspaper while I'm driving down the
road uh though I do I do feel sight lighting is very important I do feel security lighting is very important I don't feel that more foot candles than my fingers should be at wall packs on a building so uh you know if you're going
to State for the record that you'll have lighting above the doors I could appreciate that but uh I'd like to see a statement I turned on the record that there will not be any wall p on the building because your sight lighting is adequate enough to handle the the job
and we could do that Mr my only concern on that point and I agree I I don't want to be able to land a 747 on heisen road by the lights and that's a serious issue yeah just a respectful level of lighting however I'm
thinking about that driveway and people walking well that that could be handled with lands considerate consider landscape lighting on that driveway yeah that's decorative y decorative goes off at 10 o'cl but you
know we won't be able to land a plane on the street noted thank Madam chairman right so we agree over the door minimal lighting just for safety purposes and then on the driveway
landscape lighting timers that's fine you indicated there was um a separate entrance for the women so it's an existing door on um if you go can we go to I think it's two sheets
back uh no actually page five please so yeah there's actually two doors on the western side of the building so we are keeping the northern door as the main entrance into the sanctuary space space um well the foyer
into the sanctuary and then the southern door Southwest um would be into the women's section is is that the the front of heisen no so heisen is on the bottom of the sheet this is all facing the West so you you don't actually even see the entrance to the building from okay and
there's going to be adequate lighting there too correct correct so every exit and entrance door would have light o over it to make sure people can exit exit an entrance you know the building safely okay thank you welome anything else ladies and
gentlemen we want to call Mr oh thank you we want to call Mr Halper back up just to clarify the lighting so that there's no confusion on our part we're all clear you're good I because I I was a little confused so I want to make sure Ellie come on up
real quick writing down you heard the discussion about the building the wallpack building mounted signage can you just comment on other than over the doors is there any other Lighting on the building so just to clarify um the plan
the lighting plan does show no um wall packs on the front however in the rear in order to achieve um the proper Lighting in the parking lot which can be achieved either via pole mounted lighting which we have some or via some
wall um mounted lighting um we are showing wall mounted Lighting in the rear for the purpose Pur of the parking lot if we would remove that we would need to put a pole mounted light which would sort of serve the same purpose and I I believe that your intent is you
don't want glare on the street so we're not showing any wall-mounted lighting toward the street but I just want to make sure that we're not I I agree with you no exception to your initial testimony okay I agree with you thank
you and then we just have uh traffic here we go oh it's you again I I don't know we we you should just have a card you raised he's got a C in the back or do you swear from to tell the truth the hold truth nothing but the truth yes I do all right
Associates located at 1431 lakew Road man to have you back thank you um it's Scott your office prepared the report that I think was dated July 3rd originally and then updated February 13th 2025 is that correct correct and
really the only change was to address the modification of driveway location from the Western Port of the S the eastern part of the site but as part of our analysis traffic counts were conducted at Scotland and heon Road in
uh March of 2024 and we counted for the intersection 3 hours in the morning and 3 hours in the afternoon with the peak hour occurring from 8:45 to 9:45 a.m. with approximately 640 Vehicles processed
through the intersection and then the afternoon peak hour occurs from 445 to 545 p.m. with approximately 625 vehicles as indicated with the the peak hours and
the hours of operation generally the uh sh will be operating be outside the peak hours but we anal did our analysis as if they were coincidental or a worst case analysis and basically for the morning Services which are the more highly
attended um Services we consider that every single parking space is occupied during the morning peak hour so we considered it based on 41 Vehicles entering and exiting the site and the afternoon at a at a much lower
attendance but based on the existing traffic patterns and locations of neighborhoods we assume the traffic distribution be 50% east and west on he Road consistent with the Ocean County planning board protocol we consider a
2034 design year which resulted in increase in the traffic volumes by approximately 10% taking that into consideration then we analyze the site driveway the site driveway is projected to operate a level service B B is in boy which is
um much better than the um design level of C to D so the driveway exiting movements will be in the range of 14 seconds per vehicle which is well within exceptable range by the industry as well as Ocean County uh the site plan the site plan is
is cified we have relocated a driveway to the Eastern portion of the site so thereby we're providing approximately 200 ft of separation from Scotland uh and at that location we have an excess of 500 ft of sight distance
looking East and West U so in my opinion the sight driveway is located at optimal location and have more than adequate sight lines so that it can operate safely and efficiently uh and as that testified we have 41 parking spaces which exceeds
what's required by ordinance you you heard the discussion about and and county has jurisdiction over this road correct that's correct and or have you been involved in the county application at all I have not had specific discussion for the county on this one but as it relates to pedestrian activity
it be my recommendation the crosswalk be located on the Eastern side of Scotland intersection there is already a Ada ramp on the Southeast quadr great Anthony could you pull up the first exhibit we had the aerial maybe
that'll be easier to thank you Scott so I'm sorry continue please yes so look at this exhibit there's already a Ada ramp on this portion of the intersection we have sidewalk plan for the entire
Frontage my recommendation would be for the cross located closest to the intersection just for driver expectancy obviously that is still subject to Ocean County review and approval I was just about is that is that a do easement
there as well or do easement yeah no there there's no no oan County jurisdiction so it'll be subject to their review and approval yeah and that makes That Sidewalk extension that we've requested even more
important that's correct and we'll also discuss with the county Advance pedestrian warning signs as well great and that that's all we have of of Scott any questions from the board yes M Madam chair sorry sorry I'm
sorry Mr um we had previously there was a shol that was been approved on heis road did you take any of that into consideration in your traffic study well they're considered as part of the growth and they're also traffic I mean generally traffic generated by the
shs are from the local neighborhoods so they're already baked into the growth rate and are accounted for because they're on the roadways today so short answer is yes based by growth
and they're also part of the existing uh traffic and then you you also took into account the school that is is right in that area as well traffic counts are conducted while schools were in session corre okay thank
you any other questions Mr tra so just for clarification we have a paper Street it's a street that's approved but it doesn't exist correct as I understand it's a paper street that we
had agreed to provide sidewalk across So in theory wouldn't it be easier to make that roadway it'd be less of an angle be less dangerous easier access and then you come straight in it's safer for
everybody that's you have to discuss the side engine I have not looked at the grades and whether the grades would be more beneficial being on that uh Handover uh right away and again that's also something to be considered by mayor and councel because as I understand it's
not vacated you'd have to vacate that Pap Street in order to provide access across and typically with the vacation only half of the right away would go to the property the sub property correct I'm just looking at it saying
from a grading perspective that I prer that to the side engineer I have not probably grading and sidewalks would be a bigger Improvement wouldn't likely the the traffic walking come from the Scotland roads intersection more likely
than to a paper street that doesn't exist well I I guess that it's they look at it for traffic or look at it for walking yeah walking Scotland Road seems to be the area that maybe uh people are walking
from and to no without a doubt but again certain people on the board had that mindset my mindset is how am I going to get to this building what's the safest way for them to come in and out and traffic pulling out of a street is
better than a traffic pulling out of a driveway in my mind so that's why I know it's greater expense but I think it's something that should be considered yeah and just just so everybody's aware so the application process for uh vacation of a paper Road in Jackson it's an
independent application they have to submit it to the township uh it's got to go to for the council the uh Township engineer um and I believe other professionals have to do their own independent assessment of the situation they have to determine if it's in the best benefit uh of the township and then
it actually goes through the application process so it's a whole big and then they then they divide it up 50/50 they have to change the change title it's it's a whole big process no Absolut I agree I understand but I'd be remiss no I'm just saying just so everybody knows what that what that means Bobby would
the county also have any saying that since it's yeah no if it's if it's a paper Road no it depends on who's got the underlying title to it Mr did you have something you wanted to say no okay all
right at this time uh we'd like to open it to the public and when the public comes forward please simply address the three um gentle two gentlemen and one
lady who uh uh for the um people who gave testimony after that portion will close reopen for General comments so no General comments at this time just questions for the um experts so I'd like
to make a motion to open the public cross examination of the witnesses second rker all in favor I I I all right if anyone would like to come forward has
anything to ask that be different that's the second part second part on the second part not now yeah it General comments or yeah can be in the in the general yeah you talk about this
application yeah but if anybody wants to ask specific questions to The Experts Now's the Time good evening everyone all right please raise your right hand which you're doing do you swear or affirm to tell the truth the hold truth nothing but the truth I
certainly do all right and please state your name and spell your last of the record my name is Michelle warry I live at 751 heis Road I do not have a pointer but my house is on the corner of Matthews Lane and heisen Ro that's fine
yeah if somebody could expand that um map again by zeroing in uh to that area I appreciate that thank you I don't know where to begin I'll be honest so addressing questions to any
one of the three that you suggested is going to be difficult um I'm advocating for my neighbor which is to the right of me ma'am closer to that house excuse me ma'am yes Michelle this particular opportunity is to address the
specific there's so many to then perhaps you are better coming back in a brief period of time for General discussion well specifically I'd like to know how they're pulling out of this site that would be part of General discuss this
time this is only for addressing the three who who gave testimony architect who does she know that it's a private residence just like Lisa dearo the the next would you like to ask a question of the
architect then we can bring the architect up if you ask a question we'll figure out who best to answer it if you want to do it that I just don't know where to begin well you start at the beginning question there's so many questions to be asked pick the first question on your list that's fine just pick them off one at a time and we'll
we'll direct it at whatever expert we think is uh the one to answer it this is a residential area as you will know even though it's a county road so since it's a residential area and it's a home and it has already been used as a house of
worship up to the this point since it was vacated years ago how is this a conversion first of all um well I can answer that we're converting um what was a single family home into a Shool now with parking and
all onsite improvements which don't exist today so it's not any bigger than a 2500 foot house it's as big as that footprint we're not touching the exterior so there's no expansion of the building okay that's good to know um
with respect to the number of cars coming into this particular location once again it's located near other residences that people are supposed to be walking to this particular location um why are we providing parking
spaces if they're supposed to be walking there because they also can drive there the only time they actually walk is during the Sabbath where they can't drive but otherwise there's other times of the day as testified at the beginning where the some people will drive and some people which confuses me because
everything is within half half mile of that the neighborhood across it's a public Street and people are allowed to drive on the public Street and drive to a a house of worship they're the simple answer to that the simple answer just to so you don't get confused every use has
a certain amount of parking criteria that's attached a residential so I would say four parking spaces Max no it's it's but it's not anymore now it's a house of worship right so so that type of use has a specific amount of parking required of it which is it goes to the ordinance and
it goes to um the RSI factors and I mean that that's that's why there's parking there that's why parking is required it's pursuant to the ordinance so they're using an adjacent lot to add more um footprint to this particular um
ma'am there is no more footprint to the building the building is the same size it has always been but the whole footprint is being expanded by the parking no the the park involves two lots 22 and 23 it's not an expansion of footprint footprint deals with the
building use deals with the parking and there are two tax Lots presently that'll be merged into one I would also want to know how the fire folks are going to be um able to do what they need to do it doesn't sound like they will be based upon the size of
the truck and the angle that this whole entrance and exit situation is going to end up like well I think well the engineer testified to that previously that he did meet with a Fire official will require fire sign off and we did agree to work with the board engineer on
the just the slope of the driveway at the entrance to make sure it doesn't bottom out but there's not an issue of circulation Traffic Safety how do we address better Traffic Safety so I don't have to sit on my porch every single time there are folks walking in the dark
without being visible traffic s I'm not just safety in General on heis road well we talked about the crosswalk it's a County Road and um I lived on a County Road for over 30 we have to get County approval for
what we're proposing and the test in the law is simply that the driveway has to operate safely and efficiently which we testify to that it does and we're provide there's sidewalks on both sides so I'm I'm not sure no there are not sidewalks on both sides but all right obviously
you don't live there well right across there's not a sidewalk right across the street a short sidewalk there is and there's a sidewalk we're putting in on our property the full okay so that'll just get you on and off the property it won't get you you know to any of the homes um clearly nobody on the board
lives in that area um excuse me ma'aming light at Scotland so what are we planning on the flashing light at Scotland we're not isn't that a safety issue it's not it's up that's up to the county if the county wants it's their road so if they
want to install it they can all right um so there's only 41 spaces plus an ada8 uh accommodation spaces and EV spaces plus an uh an ambulance hotela
ambulance I'm sorry what I said there should be room for an ambulance as well no not that we're aware of the well there's an ambulance parking there now okay I don't know but the ordinance doesn't require ambulance parking okay so the site's going to have
walls around it I don't we have to get the engineer to answer that I can't I could only test I'm only thing I'm answering is things that we've said already if there's anything new um Ellie could you come up you're asking I guess about retaining walls I heard something about walls
okay um yes uh because of the Steep topography there are some retaining walls proposed um in order to um make the site more manageable and all of this sand and runoff is going to be kept on the property um what you're looking at
now is going to be replaced um with paved parking and um seated grass and there will not be any sand so can you at least the answer is will the all the runoff be managed on site the runoff will be managed on site because it hasn't been thus far so I'm just
saying um whole mounted and wall mounted parking lot lights on a timer that are going to go off at 10:00 p.m. after after the last service yes we agreed to that that
doesn't happen now there's no parking lot lights now but there are lights on the building all right well we're we only could tell you what we're going to do if this is approved we're going to immediately should improve the the the um over lighting of the area after 10 p.m. well the lights are going to go off
after 10 p.m. now okay well then I should expect that particular site should be quite dark after 10 p.m. um um what's the C1 hardship variant if you don't mind me asking that is referring to the um
current setback the existing structure is closer to the street than it should be okay and the applicant is not seeking to demolish the structure in order to um install the
improvements okay um the lighting concerns once again I heard somebody suggest decorative lighting I don't think I've ever seen decorative Lighting in any other structure similar to this in other places what they asked
for is that along the driveway they would they wanted some landscape lighting so if anyone walked up the driveway they could they would have landscape lighting in the ground like very low to the ground not poles or anything correct just a different way of saying landscape
lighting yeah and lastly I don't disagree with the idea of using a paper road so whatever might be needed to go through that process it might be a better idea um at this point I think that's all I have I will probably add some more during the general thank you very much
thank you anyone else like to come forward at this time to ask specific questions of the experts r yep R mm hang on one sec uh do you swear affirm tell the truth hold truth nothing but the truth yes all
right and state your name and spay your last of the record R AI Mahmud ASI M ah m o u d okay your address 486 Meadow Wood Road so that's actually right down the map on the right side
there um so first question I have would be and Mr Shay please I remember last time try not to silence me this time thank you I depends on what you're going to ask but we'll we'll give you a shot okay so right now what is the legal use
of the structure as it stands in this moment what is it excuse me at this time we are only asking questions of the three men two men and one lady who who were uh testifying okay that may be a
general question no this is a specific question because it was discussed if I can make your life easier M yes uh all right so the object of what we're doing here now before General comment is any testimony that the
professionals have made Miss Flores Mr Halpert and Mr kenel I wanted to call him Scott um you can ask them specifically I am not sure who to address directly it's okay we we'll work on that uh I'll give
you a little hint um the the ring leader of the crowd is the attorney who can guide us guide you you know it we'll give you ample time to to figure out who that question should be directed to okay okay uh so it's only for what has been
testified to when we close this portion after you're done and any other guests that may come before us then you have that opportunity to say that question that would be usually appropriate I feel like this question directly relates to what was discussed
earlier okay I could answer Mr if you can just touch on the use real quick it's a pretty straightfor the only legal use of the current structure is a single family house okay so so if it was used as a Sho which we all agree it was they never got approval for it that's why
we're here tonight okay but it's been used as a house of worship for years years okay and that takes me to my next question so has anyone here driven to this community or seen it including the
professionals here during actuals of operation during livelihood of the surrounding communities because we're all concerned for the safety of everyone going to congregate but no one's mentioned safety for anything else
around here the lights which whichever specialist this may be shine into my bathroom light and I'm the third house onto Meadowwood the third house into Meadowwood the lights are shining into my master bedroom so so let me help you
out here so um so what you may want to ask them is is there any way that the that they can construct the lighting not to go into your home so the current lighting situation that we just discussed we can't talk about current cuz it's all going away let's talk about what we're
proposing so excuse me if I'm a little confused because it's been functioning already as a house of worship which means a lot of it has been set up as a house of worship which has caused five accidents lights
into my bathroom and I get that you're putting it up here now to make it legal even though it's been functioning illegally for years creating lots of chaos but how are we going to fix the lighting situation because there's a lot
of lights shining into Meadowwood Road tul Timbers so just to answer the question the um applicant is proposing now improvements including lighting and what is existing is going to be removed and what you will see if this is
approved and once this is constructed we'll be um lighting that is per the ordinance with cut off Shields as mentioned earlier in order to specifically prevent GL into neighboring properties and certainly three properties is over so what you are looking at is not what is being proposed
what's being proposed is um new site improvements the footprint of the building is remaining the same but the site improvements are going to be changing okay thank you for that so again a little confusion here but because it's been functioning illegally
as a house of worship for or can I just object that every question shouldn't start with the same comment it's weting because no excuse me I'm talking because you one hang on hang on hang on hang on hang on hang on hang on so just to set
the playing field here what what you're talking about is enforcement right we have no capacity of enforcement here so what's been happening in the past is is not relevant to what's happening right now well I understand that but but you're going down the route of like code
enforcement building enforcement all that because it's very relevant torture for three years I understand that but what I'm saying saying to you is that the the appropriate person to talk about that with is the code enforcement officer is the building department the zoning officer we don't there's nothing
that we can do about that here so on the website it states that there's 41 parking spots you you have 88 parking spots or 60 no the site plane
demonstrates 41 parking spots okay so you have the capacity for 88 or 80s something individuals with 41 parking spaces thank you so right now it's
currently both sides parking corner to corner full lot daily use of approximately 60 to 70 cars so I'm just curious to understand the parking better here
so just to answer um the ordinance requires a certain amount I believe uh 16 um the parking calculation is on the front cover but the applicant is proposing 41 spaces and again the purpose of the application is to propose improvements to comply with the
ordinance um so you do not see what is taking place right now and the board chairwoman requested that we make a petition to Mayor and Council so that there's no parking on in the county No Parking On High which we've agreed to do it's up to the the governmental agencies
as far as street parking it's not our call so how are we going to go from the 60 to 70 cars on a daily basis to the 15 cars with the history of five accidents and so what what I say now is
because it's already been happening how are we going to do a 360 overnight well one of the things ma'am is once once the construction has taken place there will be already been Tak Place excuse me may I finish yes once the construction has
taken place the cars will be going to the back of the building they will not be hopefully if the mayor and Council agrees they will not be parking on the street which will make will make life much more pleasant for you that's the
goal we are trying we are trying to do our best to deal with the situation that is before us today at as far as this application is concerned that's all we do the setback is the setback that the
house has had that they have lived with with that when that house was built there's nothing we can do about that the house is there the house is there and it's been functioning as something that it shouldn't have been ma'am we cannot exuse deal that now you're asking now
you're saying that it needs to be you need to stop interrupting the chairwoman all right one of one of the guys all right so hang on hang on don't do that hang hang on EXC have excuse you out of here
that's the conversation do to everyone else right all done all done so let let me let me break this down to you real simple okay go for it let let me break this down real simple so what this board has a capacity of doing and only doing is dealing with the future potential
what the property could be based upon the application that's presented so what you're talking about and listen it's legitimate if you have if there's things going on there that violate building code and Zoning code and all that stuff that's fine but there's nothing that the board can do about that right now right
so that that's code enforcement that's zoning enforcement that's building when I understand right but I've been complaining about it for years I know that but this this board this board has nothing to do with that canish what what I'm trying to say to you is that that's
irrelevant here for plan hang moving hang on hang on hang on what I'm saying to you is that the the prior inconsistencies on the property regarding the use right is not relevant to the current application because we're
dealing with what the what the the what the property could be in the future right that's the only jurisdiction this board has is is to take what's being presented to it right is take what's being presented to it and weigh it and rule on it right so what I'm saying to you is that all these concerns that you
have and and listen they're probably legitimate right but you need to go to code enforcement you need to go to zoning and deal with it that way and and I and I have to shut that line of testimony down or else we're going to go down that for the next hour it's irrelevant to the to the current
testimony right now it's not relevant it is relevant if if it's if it's a zoning violation wish to know the existing problems if it's a zoning violation or code enforcement violation it's irrelevant to what is in front of us
right now one at a time yeah okay good go go ahead go ahead when here at the planning board we're planning to make it better in order to do that there are existing conditions that have already
caused you're looking at it the wrong way situations you're looking that that is not okay so so maybe you're getting confused with the term existing conditions existing conditions in a planning board contest only deals with the use in this case residential
dwelling going to a house of worship it's a permitted use to a permitted use right you can do that in planning right so is it being used as a rental because it is I I don't I have no idea what I'm saying to you that it's a rental you have to go to zoning or you have to go
to code enforcement we're not that testimony clearly I I got to I got to shut I'm shutting I'm that line of testimony down I'm shutting it down because it's irrelevant so please move on if you have if you have another question if you have another question
that is relevant to the testimony please ask the expert the question is is it being used as a rental right now because you said no and it is a rental what do you mean a rental property it's being a rent it's used as a rental it's being
rented out oh I I don't know if how that's you asked the question and he said okay then you have your answer he doesn't know so please move on to your next question then why would you say I never said rental no somebody said that it was not being used as a rental okay all done move on to your next question
please okay so the next question would be oh no the the question was will they rent out the the when this is built and occupied will they rent it out for events and the answer is no that was the question
I asked I asked would the would the building be used as a rental for social events I wrote that down will the building be used as a rental for social events the answer was no so my next question would be being that it's going
it's planning to be a house of worship um what are you going to do about the existing renter or renter's permit that's in place that that has nothing to do with the planning board so what happens is that whenever it can't be used as both
correct correct when if this is approved if this is approved and built then only the house of worship will operate at that property right so what H what happens that once this gets approved the use changes and then they can no longer use that use after the approval right
once it once the approval gets perfected right so on top of the fact I think there's Co requirements and the whole nine yards for having rentals so so if if you have a concern it's got to go to the zoning officer it's got to go to code enforcement you got to it's got to go that Avenue it's the only people that
can that can impact that Mr Shay I appreciate it and we had this talk last time when you silenced me before that I'm asking you to comply with the last time I talk to you particular to this property where I express my concern telling you the only people that have
any capacity to do what you're saying is limited that then you have to appeal their determination and take it the next step yeah right so so beyond that we're looking to convert let's move on to the next question let's move on to the next
question what other question do you have for for an expert what has the fire inspector or Department said about the parking across the street with the fire with the ambulance because the ambulance and all
the cars are currently parking at the hydrant so has that been inspected or evaluated there should be no parking at the fire hydrant we we if if if it's prohibited then they shouldn't be parking there but the Fire official
reviewed this plan that we're proposing um so and we've agreed to address his comments they're all on-site type comments about hydrants and things but the as far as street parking is concerned um I don't know if they review that when will the street parking signs
go up no parking on the street we have well we have to ask the mayor and councel for permission it's their it's there it's under their purview and that and maybe the county and then if they all say yes we we do it as part of our construction so when we spoke earlier
about heavy traffic and congestion has anyone considered the traffic coming out of met wood where it's a 25 hour uh 25 M hour speed limit and everyone that goes to congregate
many walking and driving fly through there including the applicant himself so there's a lot of pedestrian traffic and vehicle traffic intensely during school hours with my kids school buses going
and coming so what are we doing about Meadowwood and traffic and vehicle pedestrians because I didn't hear anything about that I I don't know Scott did you look at Meadowwood and um and it's really not relevant to a planning board application but if Scott has an
answer he'll answer it no we we cond Scot whatever tra Scot basically the same traffic we did not do specific intersection because that's not
a requirement as part of this I I feel like the county like the question was asked before if this traffic specialist has collaborated with the county uh traffic evaluators because
they've done traffic studies and the heisen coming down there is a slope and with the amount of traffic coming from both directions by the time I'm driving out of metalwood I'm half way into the street before I can see if there's
traffic coming and then of course we have kids and bicyclists and my my kids ride their bikes and scooters and the puppy and the dog like there's a community here that's not really factored in except for the safety of the
congregation right now so Scott can you comment I can state that again the county has done a thorough review most recently at their oober 2024 uh public Hearing in which they
provided us two pages of comments which will be addressed and really are specific to tyon Road and Scotland D I work with the county on a daily basis on applications throughout the ocean town so I'm very familiar with what they'll
consider and what should be U provided to them to evaluate this application so have you heard anything about the last traffic study that they did regarding Meadowwood Road I have not that was not part of a discussion again
it's not focus location site driveway that's thef Anis right but I'm just saying there was another recent survey last month because of the five accidents there so
collaboration with the county would be great because we had multiple accidents right and and we have to get County final County approval no matter what So eventually that collaboration will happen if that's what the county thinks is necessary to we have no control over how they review the application so if
they think it's relevant then they'll look at it if not not but again the test really is at a planning board meeting is our driveway only off-site traffic is not something that the applicant is required to deal with yes I'm I'm I'm really going to blow your mind right now
all right so don't jump over the counter and try to punch me so so how we got two things I right so it's kind of a loaded question the one you just asked first thing is the the county approval so what happens is that if they go and say Hey listen we want to do this and this is going to
impact traffic X Y and Z County does their own analysis if the county comes back and says okay you know it's going to it's going to do a b and c you have to do you know uh like o and and P right so the county will come back with conditions County will come back with requests of the applicant that they have
to comply with like full full stop if they don't comply with it they don't get the approval right um other thing that is also going to blow your mind right is that um for whatever reason I don't know why and one day it will get overturned
um but the Supreme Court has determined that the planning board uh at the planning board level the zoning board is a different story they have jurisdiction but the planning board doesn't have jurisdiction to take into consideration uh off Street traffic so basically what
happens is that under the law um the once traffic goes outside of the property it basically goes into a black hole right and the board can't take all of that good traffic you know expert opinion basically into consideration for
denial or approval outside of tangental right so um so there's that um so that's a second part of that so we we can take into consideration uh you know the the EB and flow of traffic onto the property the egress Ingress the you know uh
safety uh hazards stuff like that when it comes down to the circulation on the property and with the Ingress and egress but that's it once it goes off property it goes into a black hole um so that this is another way of answer answering you to kind of to show you the the
sandbox that we're playing in you know because we would love to be able to do that but we legally can't okay so can you help me understand better exactly how many parking spots are going to be there 41 41 and the the occupancy into
the structure the total occupancy the legal occupancy yes I don't know if we know that number she the architect could probably do a calculate you're talking about for what the so 16 + 41 +
2 is that what it is no okay so I'm trying to understand it here how how many parking spots oh parking spots or occupancy well the the parking is 41 you said but the total occupancy well that's a that's a building code
issue so whatever the occupancy it is it is yeah so so again I a kind of a multi-layered question too so what happens that under the fire code you have a certain occupancy limit right um and then based upon the statement of operations I think they they're under the whatever that limit is number one
but they have to comport with that limit and that limit also is has got to to be um rectified with the parking which they're beyond right so they've satisfied their parking requirements so um that's kind of the answer to that one I'm sorry just from layman terms in my
mind I'm just trying to get a number for the occupancy here but you're not able to give that to me right now because it's not relevant the the test is what does the ordinance require for parking and the ordinance requires far less than what we're providing we're far in excess
of what the ordinance requires so when we get to the occupancy is when the fire will do their inspection is that right so it's going to end but I mean we're talking that's like five steps away and that that's that's uh they have to go for the zoning permit they got to go for building permits and then all that stuff
happens to me it's kind of like a catch 22 I understand but all we all we have to do like so let me put it this way if the ordinance specified that you can only have X amount of people in this building they would have to comport with that that would be able to be weighed
into the determination that the board can make because it's it's part of the ordinance that we're dealing with that's not the case here the case here is that it's governed by the fire code which is like three steps Beyond where we're are where we are right now after so is it going at any point to come after we've
already approved the 41 parking spaces they have they have to get a certificate of occupancy from the town when all the work is done and that and all the subcode officials will have to review it before the co is issued so just so I understand
clearly we have to get approval for this planning for this what's happening tonight before it goes for inspection yeah so so just to keep it very simple right so it goes planning board um resolution compliance zoning permit
building permit Co um I mean sometimes TCO it's it's four or five layers deep all different people within the township so it's kind of multiple layers of redundancy yeah and we cannot exceed whatever the fire code maximum occupancy is this board has no ability to give us
relief from that that's a requirement we have to comply with okay so if we approve the 41 parking spaces and then the internal portion of the structure is exceeding much more than that we're
going to end up with a parking Hazard again no so so you're you're connecting two dots that that are irrelevant at this moment no like in general right that don't connect and and we can build this with only 16 parking spaces and not require a variance and meet the
ordinance we're providing 41 because we know we need more than 16 so so what we're providing what we need what you're connecting is is you're basically saying okay if if we give them more parking then they're going to have the ability to have more people inside of the home as a result of that there there there is
no that that's not how it works what happens is that when you go to the fire code there's there's a list of uses almost like a like you see a grid right there's a grid like actual in the international fire code book right that you can actually just go online and and go take a look at every use has a
specific number of people based upon certain criteria square footage everything like that like banquet holes it's same thing right so um cafeteria same thing so when you go to that that's what dictates how many people are allowed to be in the building right it's
it's not the amount of people it's not the amount of spaces that you grant them at the planning board it's it's based upon the international building coat I understand so help me understand again the setback because I know nobody wants
to tear down this structure but for me and my family it's not been fun so there's a big parking lot with uh chainsaws going at 10:30 p.m. to make
that parking lot pretty on a Sunday night so how how is this how is this going to work in the rest of the community's favor right now one of the things ma'am is it's going to get hopefully people off from
parking on the street because there will now be appropriate parking in the rear of the building so what about the front of the building that's been a flat toop right now no parking in the front it will be landscaped um there was a plan that
chose that so how is it going to move to the back of the building if there's so much more room in the front of the building I don't I'm not sure there's no a lot of room in the front of the building but there'll be no parking in there'll be no parking there so ma'am
can I help you a minute uh I'm a resident of Jackson As You Are 55 years they recently put a sh on wage Road about 150 ft from my house and I had many of the concerns that you have and I
found that the process eliminated all the concerns I had but I couldn't understand how the process worked at the time what you're going to see is this plan and this committee really does have
your best interest at heart what this GNA what they're going to do is they're going to remove all the activity from the front of that building take it to the back they're going to put in new lighting that's going to shut with shields that's going to focus the
lighting straight down for it does a shine across into my bathroom into your bathroom into hopefully not into the you know the driveway next door or the street in front I could only tell you
that every everything they're doing here is uh dictated by the laws and the ordinances that are on the books there is nothing here that the uh applicant is asking for other than one thing the
setback that front setback and that front setback is existing so he's not asking to reduce the front setback he's asking to use the existing set back because that's where the house
is and it's been years I would suggest that uh everything I've heard you say I've also but I could tell you I live 150 ft from M on all this road very
busy road I'm sure you know it and uh you don't know what's there honestly could tell you that and if you want to go down my road I'll give you my phone number I'll show you what I
live with and if that helps you I'd be more than happy to do so I would like to speak to you at the end of the meeting I'll be here thank you m chair that can't do that
okay I don't know if you caught my cross examination going back and forth with Mr alier maybe you stepped in late specifically I asked about the lighting I discussed it at the site level and then when Miss Forest came
forth I discussed it again with her and the wall packs Mr hurn came forward I do recognize exactly what you're saying I drive down whito Road out of this town and I am Blinded by the Light
you could read a newspaper on the sidewalk I asked this applicant to State for the record that there would be no wall packs they stated for the record that there be lighting over the
doors which my comrade here Mr marzo also did ask we entered that into the record that's permanent record Mr alfery accepted that as a condition uh should we Grant approval for it uh I see your point about the lights I
don't disagree with you whatsoever uh as far as the current ongoings I'm sure they're disturbing uh we all drove past I drove past uh I don't disagree with you that's not up to
us but you know we are trying to work within the limits of the law to remed the situation and the one thing that will happen happen that we'll give you some Grace here is I don't think anybody in this room is going to want to be in that building during
construction okay uh because they going to have to change it um and one of the things you're exactly right on uh and you're trying to connect the dots and I can tell you as a retired construction uh project manager and a guy that held three building inspector's
licenses unfortunately the way this code works it is a minimum standard and you'll hear me always say to different attorneys thank you very much for doing the the least you could do in this case they are doing exactly what they can do that being
said Expo the international construction code that we're under now the fire code and the occupancy load and then the fourth one is if you had a septic the septic load no matter what you do if you
had a master's degree you couldn't get these four things to align in you know we're trying to say that and it it unfortunately the legal part of it becomes as irrelevant but in Planning and
Zoning the building is driven by the parking and the parking drives the building you can have a you know a shopping center and you'll have lots of parking because that's a different filter when it comes down to a a house of
worship it's governed with another set of Phil filters so unfortunately uh it becomes very difficult to connect those four things I think the occupancy load in this building is uh this room was like 120 or 280 or something uh have we had more in
here yes because under the type of construction it's a concrete floor I can tell you the live load on the house that you live in and the house that is constructed there you're not going to have more than 200 lb per square foot so if you see a guy like me in the room with a bunch of other guys and we start
bouncing up and down we're going to be in the basement so that's also driving the amount of people that could be in that building so I just want to you know give you the sense of assurance we're not the enemy here we're stuck with these four different divisions of code that will never come
together because unfortunately it's the assembly men in Trenton that are pushing it with the lobbyists uh but I see your point on the Lights I've worked with this group here to get it on the record that
they're going to comply and if they don't comply then what you can do is you can pull the resolution should we approve it which states every last thing including our testimony line by line and say look this is what's agreed
to uh I made a comment about Grand Boulevard where we asked for and I did receive and it was noted in the resolution to get 5ft sidewalks there's 3ot put sidewalks out there I could bet I'm just as hot as you about that lighting situation as I end a
sidewalk I'll rest there but we do hear you yeah I'll take it one step forward so just to make everybody's life easier Eli can you work with her to make sure that you know where her home is in respect to the project and where the lighting is so that um that her her
concerns can be addressed regarding the lighning and her property do you guys can chat afterwards and and just you know yeah he responded Yes okay yeah just just meet up with him afterwards
and yeah anyone else have questions specific to the uh cross examination please seeing no one come forward I move to close the cross-examination portion
of the testimony second all in favor I now we will open the uh Podium to people who have general questions I move to open the public uh comment portion of this application
solivan second by reer all in favor I anyone wishing to speak on this application may come forward now good to see you again please raise your right hand do you swear or affirm to tell the truth the hold truth nothing but the truth yes sir all right please state your name spell
your last the microphone please Sir Eric Jones 722 heis Road uh the reason I want to speak to this application is because it's kind of laughable to me as it is to some other people I've been dealing with this place as Mr wal can to testify to that because
I've sent him many emails I've had soils out there from Ocean County I've had code enforcement out there I've had everybody and their mother out there because of this place okay now if you if you look at this place it's on a hill now when they came in you know why
there's the pitch on the driveway is because they came in on a Sunday with about 12 loads of AR blend and increased the height of the property which soils got on to because they took down the silt fence and every bit of that dirt comes down the road goes through my
driveway and I'm two t0 of a mile away and I got pictures since 2023 I've been dealing with this I just you know um like you were saying to her about uh dear this process will weed out all that
stuff okay but in the Pro in in the meanwhile we're dealing with this for so many years of things being done that people say they are going to be done well guess what they're already done okay they restructured the inside of the house I don't know how many loads of of uh they had so many concrete trucks
there coming in dozens of them I don't know what they were building I don't know if they're digging down to China I don't know but uh that and and making the parking lot go all the way around the building to this day we can only deal here I'll get it I'm just
letting you know because you're you're going to vote on something or or give approval to something that unforunately we can't take into consideration only consider testimonies sir oh well you said I could speak to this that you can't take what you're
doing now who's who's going to talk testimony sir what do you mean testimony not the history of what's been going on before we can't deal with what's been going on before we can only take in consideration that all this stuff has been done already by law we can't we can
only consider so the planning board you're telling me that the planning board I can put an addition on my house wait 3 years and then apply for a permit well that would be zoning that's zoning board but I'm just saying well you're planning so you're going to go all what what's the plan and you would go before
the zoning board and you would ask that permission okay and hopefully you were fined for those years that you were in not compliance somebody came out and fined you not about us but it's not we don't control that that's not us I'm sad to say but this this right now is do and
then ask for forgiveness that's what this application is cuz all this stuff is done sir everything is done we are here to protect the interests of the community going forward that's funny but meanwhile you
deal with the mess I I would just to everybody just call up the zoning officer call up code enforcement I I know you probably done it already but that's that's the only recourse I understand your frustration sir I don't blame you you do understand it because
this this should be denied because of what's already done we can't unfortun we can't do that if there if there is a compliant application we cannot deny what what defines compliant the ordinance the ordinances so so
everything everything prior no means nothing can't do it can't do it so like I said I could put I could put an addition on my house that's enforcement that's code enforcement this is going to be a it's a different it's I understand laws and stuff but this seems
like it's like whatever do what you want who cares Who's down the block the only reason I'm here is because I could care less what they do with the building it's equ it affected me it's two t of a mile away it's the equivalent of like going to a a fire department and complaining
about police officer issues that that's that's what I'm saying it's a different like you can't coming here and talking about violations of code enforcement and building and Zoning issues and stuff
like that is is we don't we can't put a safety vest on and then go write tickets at somebody's house because they're you know not that's not how this works we can all we can do is take a look at the application compare it against the ordinance and then we have to rectify
the two so uh anybody can go and violate everything in the town and still get approved that's what you're saying it's based upon the application that's before us you're saying it's you can violate zoning enforc code enforcement you can violate it's it's
just code enforcement and Z enforcement Mr alier you're you're blaming us though I'm not blaming you I'm just letting you know that I've been dealing with this and so of the other neighbors okay but understand we're here with our hands tied I drive them nuts with my stuff I'm like
you the best you can do is put it out there we empathize put I'm here right now correct but you got to give us a break though too because we do the best we can well everybody says that they're good neighbors well obviously they're not good neighbors I mean I've had some shitty
Neighbors in my day you and me both I'm from New York I could I could tell you horror stories but the bottom line is our hands are tied as much as we empathize with you I can say is Maybe video it and go to the proper channels
some of it's helped yes but other than that we work from this point to the Future that's to that point Mr Alfieri makes your your clients are aware that they have outstanding violations against
them they they know they're not compliant with the ordinance whether there's outstanding violations today I don't know the answer to that okay obtaining approval from this board to reconcile those outstanding violations would help move this process forward so
that you would be obligated to install these improvements to ameliorate the concerns we've heard about the SE correct correct and they they are anxious to get the work done so the moment they can get a building permit they're going to they're going to fix everything and build what we've
presented to you tonight thank you well see that's that's making some Headway there that's what I kind of expected you know I'm just saying just you know believe me we sympathize with you on this believe me we do sympathize with
you on this you say that but I don't think anybody really does it's just but we have to follow the law yeah I understand that but but by bringing the application as part of the process of rectifying the concerns I I mean it's it's a fair point but like he just did
he took violations in consideration of the application and spoke to him well we hope we moving forward we hope the people here are are listening to the concerns
yeah all I know is my rock driveway is now dirt from all the dirt from that place anyone else like to speak on this uh application please come forward hi hope Drew oh you have to be sworn raise your
right hand you swear affirm to tell the truth the hold truth nothing but the truth yes all right sorry I just ran from volum y please St state your name and spell your last of the record Iowa to Iowa I
wa okay so I was in the car listening and I was here listening so just quick question Morty this was an R1 right is was it a conforming prior to you changing the ordinances to permit a use at one point all right just because are the new
ordinances right just to be clear this is General comment you can't ask qu this this part of the process is about you telling everybody your opinions your concerns that's relevant to the application currently before the board
well I think it's relevant because like everyone was saying here it skipped the zoning board correct I'm saying came right to planning no that's not that's not how it works that's not how it works no so never went before zoning it's assigned to us from Mr papor Mr papor
decides whether it's a zoning issue or a planning issue and he assigns it because it was it it was conforming and it was a permitted use then it came straight to planning correct that's why he skipped it here yes now prior to the ordinances being changed an R1 Zone was a a
conditional use because the ordinances were now changed the R1 became a permitted use therefore all the illegal houses that have been being used illegally then appli to be used because you know they have to come before you now they're permitted uses and they skip
zoning that's why all these things that these people have been coming in front of you and telling you have been affecting their lives for years were never addressed neither neither the zoning board nor neither the zoning board nor
the planning board can enforce anything we are simply here to listen to this applicant and the application and the testimony and make decisions based on that not on the history no no I get that I just feel there was a confusion that's
why like why wasn't it zoning wasn't invol was never went before a zoning board yeah it it didn't need to be because it's a permitted use right so if it's permitted it comes before the planning board Sor if it's if it's non-permitted that goes before the zoning board okay so when will construction
start um we still have to we assuming it's approved we have to submit revised plans to the board to address all of the technical comments that were raised tonight and raised in the reports we still have to finalize our County approval
and then once that's done they can start so I it's impossible to say hopefully within a few months but in our world few months go by and a drop of a a blink of an eye and we lose a few months so all right so Mr wall hi you're in charge of
zoning you're in charge of code so will these issues no he's not he's not Mr wall not his the township administrator he's the business administrator he's the buso doesn't report to Mr in charge of zoning and right okay so how about the
administrative side of the town will this do I have to go in front of council to see if these issues will be addressed until construction is done the cars parking overflow and heisen the lights the ambulance parked in the front all day long I mean these are issues that people are coming before
you saying that they're living with every single day construction might not serve for a year so where do you go in the interim not us ma' I know but the ones but it has they they have nothing to do with it so so you got to you got to go to zoning you got to go to code
enforcement and you have to Lodge a complaint or or whatever you guys want to do right if it hasn't happened you you go and do it if if it has happened and they've already been issued violations you got to go to Municipal Court where where those violations get enforced and and you know be a fact
witness or or whatever you want to do but but that that happens totally outside there's nobody here that that is involved in in zoning violations or code enforcement viol or anything like that that's why I'm trying to keep who can WR that create laws that can protect the
people's quality life right that would be good councilman May rather Council if this perhaps touch on resolution compliance generally that may be I think relevant to perhaps the the question but I'd like to redirect this back to the chairwoman this meeting Dr Campbell if I
could just ask a question just to clarify is what M Drew is asking is if Council would be okay because I know it came up earlier about no parking on heis about doing that earlier is that the question that Mrs Drew was asking yeah what are you going to do from about everything you heard tonight Dr Campbell could I so they
don't have to come to council and repeat themselves if your question is can the council look into parking on the street prior to this then that has to go to the council it can't be done by usly noted
okay however there is now no parking available that that's a use issue and it has nothing to do with us now quality of life issues a quality of life I I commiserate thoroughly nothing to do
with our responsibilities at this time okay real quick you mentioned some about the oldridge sh you said it doesn't affect your life which one are you talking about the one that's still waiting for a site plan construction the one that's being used in a house that's not even no site plan
construction yet I think you it's uh New Prospect but this is also irrelevant to the application before us and they well he spoke I'm not to ask him what he said before there is no he said alridge Road didn't affect his life so I'm just asking one at a time guys one at a time one at a
time all right on road right I believe it's a sh it's a home that's a home it's a home was converted much like they received it s plan yeah right uh are using that as an example right what this
is going to be of use in other words simple use didn't you say it's not causing any harm or is that what you said have not seen any oh impct so the family had to sell their house behind because the lights were blaring into their home had nothing to do this is
irrelevant to the application before tell the truth though I mean what I said yeah they got approve for a site plan and still operating without the construction just like this is going to do so I mean there's then there needs to be an ordinance written you shouldn't be
allowed to continue to operate home without you have my email address you know how to find us we got to keep what I'm talking about right we got to keep it relevant to this application that's all we can take into consideration carot volleyball girls it was a pleasure have a good evening hope the car's not running is there anyone else who would
like to come forward to speak about this application please do so um Carlos Martin hang on one second all right do you swear or affirm do tell the truth the hold truth nothing but the truth yes all
right please state your name and spell your last of the record Carlos Martins 406 Cobain Jackson New Jersey okay uh my question was about the paper road I don't really understand that too well but so is that considered a qut a lot
right now corner lot and if it is is it because of the paper Road most likely yeah I'll I'll so that is one impact of you know it's not really a road it's just on paper it's on paper and you know why I'm asking because if it I thought houses of
worship had to be on the corner lot no no they don't be on the corner no not not when they're on a county roadway not not when on the county road yeah I think an R9 and R15 I think an R9 and R15 yeah it's it's a different it's a
different situation that I understand your question do you have another question no that that was it that was they both came together whether that count anyway thank you thank you sir for for your question was a good question do you swear or affirm to tell the whole truth nothing about the truth
I will try all right please state your name and spell your last of the record Jim Sakia s l ECC hiia uh my address is six harfield Drive um Dr Campbell I want to kind of focus in speaking with you so we can keep this
going quickly Mr reker I appreciate all the comments you made about the lighting can you tell me when this board has changed their philosophy to only going forward on projects when in the past on projects because you know I've
been here for over a year and a half now you have asked applicants that own the property currently to make changes to it as part of the approval process by this board and changes are being made with
this particular piece of property and we are approving those changes H how is that different so so if I can I know we're supposed to stick on this this but I can I so the application
for the um office building off a County Line Road I forget that street there um by where it was a it was a I believe a cleanliness issue correct you forced them to get that thing cleaned up but it
was being used as a building a an office building at the time and that was approved they were changing things in the structure so nothing no it's no different there's a different situation here so I I'll make it I'll make it
fairly simple for you right so um we were aware of violations on that one at that time we're not aware of any pending violations that are happening right now if if that makes any sense to you I know you guys visit properties I
don't know if you visited this property at night I pointed out that I was at that property yesterday and I drive by that property frequently and my qu my comment was I don't know if you've done it at night but as Mr reker says you can read a map you know with the little
streets as clear as de so all I would ask the applicant is to consider shutting off some of those lights that exist currently it would help everybody now that's all just as a nice P you know
here here we want to work with you guys we're going to shut some of these lights off because there are there's got to be five or six lights that's all I'd love to see somebody just ask I think you can ask them and I just did fine I hope they agree I see Mr
Al what I'm saying is that we cannot ask that well you have in the past that's right different situation different situation thank you I'll get an answer we'll get an answer for you before we leave anyone else like to come
forward good evening do you swear or affirm to tell the truth whole truth nothing but the truth all right please state your name and spell your last the record Stacy deio ma'am we can't hear you Stacy deio d m ggio I live on 6 Edinburgh Court I just want to thank you
for addressing some of the light issues it does greatly impact my life and also uh the parking on heisen road which does also affect everybody's life I've witnessed a lot of unsafe can can you speak into the I've
witnessed I'm not going to talk in the past but I want to just hang on you may want to Yes um I would like you to try to address some of these issues now if possible because it greatly affects everybody's life safety is my main concern at the moment um I have a new
driver in the house he comes up to the corner of Scotland in heison he's a new driver he's inexperienced you know what's going to happen I'm petrified um all the people speeding by it's it's a 45 mph road we know that nobody drives that speed limit on that
road um the people walking crossing the street it's it's an accident waiting to happen uh I don't want to witness it I've lived here 17 years I've been very happy here until the light pollution which will be addressed and the parking on heisen road I can't see I pay
$122,000 a year to live in that house I can't get out of my street I'm afraid I have to go all the way around uh I'm not lying please address some of these now before it gets into approval but I do want to know when this does get approved what is it going to do to my taxes what
is it going to do to the value of my house if you can have any insight to that ma'am we we all live here except for a few scattered people we do we live in this
town we deal with what you deal with we understand but we take a a promise to do things by the law I hope that the people sitting in this audience are listening
to you the people who can do something about it and are paying attention that that would be my hope that they are listening and that they will want to be good neighbors and in order to be good neighbors they will do the things to
help make your life better they neighbors life better it's important what things do to taxes and what things do to the value of your home I could tell you all kinds of things about that just as a resident
who's in well informed I don't believe it will harm the value of your home at all and I think that things as far as taxes are concerned are improving in this town yeah and just to be clear there's
actually a case law on point that says that you can't take into consideration the future impact on prices and and you can't take into consideration either revaluations or tax increases or decreases just so that everybody is clear on that one right well I thank you
thank you for addressing the lighting and the parking thank you sorry all right remember General comat this time okay um I'm I'm going to I'm going to swear you in again all
right okay R mm all right do do you swear affirm tell truth whole truth nothing but the truth okay um so thank you guys by the way for being patient and addressing me at
the end of the last session um so my question would be I heard you say there are current violations correct we don't know that someone anyone say how are we addressing the current violations in
place no the question was if there if there were current violations and the answer was to our knowledge there are no current violations so that takes me to the next part where um so construction is going to happen mainly internally
correct no well not outside besides the landscaping and the parking lot and the drainage and the lighting that'll all be new how about inside any inside there'll be renov interior renovation to do with inside okay but there will be interior
reservations they have to get building permits for that okay so are those okay to be addressed now or is it at another meeting yeah this is um so so um we're kind of getting beyond the scope of General now because we're going back to
questions um to the the architect and and stuff like that it's kind of thought I have and it's going to go back to and Safety Council but it's so General comments about like how you feel about the application your you voice your opinion about it um it's the the the
cross-examination part is over at this point so we we can't Circle back because it's part of the the Robert rules of it's a question I I I know that but General comments not about questions General comments about about your opinion I guess have we addressed
internal construction here so I can ask the next question so okay I'll I'll simplify that we don't we don't have anything to do with internal construction the building department does okay so we do discuss we have an
the architect gave testimony about what is happening in the interior of the building but we don't the building department takes care of that by code I guess I'm a little confused because all the construction was already
done internally we don't have anything to do with that ma'am we don't know that that took place whether it did or whether it didn't we do not know we are not privy to that information okay um okay so going back to
uh the proper channels so was this because I don't understand this part was this supposed to go in front of zoning and it didn't no no so was that a proper Channel Mr Pororo is the person who
decides where an application will go sometimes he'll say it goes to zoning sometimes he says it goes to planning that that's his uh Mr proro so he's the zoning officer he's the zoning officer so why would he skip zoning he doesn't
skip he assigns to one or the other he assign so think think about it in two buckets right so whenever you're looking at an the ordinance you have a list of permitted uses right so in the residential Zone you'll have 10 permitted uses if you're one of those 10 you come before the planning board right
if you're not on that list it's a non-permitted use or a prohibited use and then you go to the zoning board so think of it it's two different jurisdictions two different boards for two different reasons so so you don't don't think of it like you go to the planning board then you go to the zoning board it's you go to one or the other
and the zoning officers the is the individual that renders that determination so the zoning officer for this particular case deciphered where it this case would go based off of Bas the use yeah based off of what it was currently functioning in no no based
upon what they put in the application what they put in the okay so what they put in the application is to be a house of worship correct which is a permitted use in his own yeah proposed okay proposed right
now just give me a second yes everything we do in this town so if you want to put up a shed when you file a construction permit automatically you have to file a zoning permit everything in this town gets
reviewed by zoning whether you want to put an addition on whether you want to change a header over a window uh so that is another fail safe what it is you're double-checking and when they get to that point the first thing they're going to do if we should approve tonight is to
pull the uh the ordinance for resolution compliance and go down and make sure that all of the elements and all the tenants that were agreed to and discussed tonight are in there but yes Jeff Pororo the zoning officer he's the
captain of whether it goes to the left or to the right and the litmus test is does it fit and you may have heard me give the speech about a wedding you know first you have to have permission to get married and you set the date and where
and then you know we're Mom and Dad we get over to the planning end of of the project and we say okay you can't have 350 people you're going to have 41 parking spots because you have this many feet so that's kind of how it works it's
not the best metaphor but it's what I I got it I got it um so one last thing I know my time is up almost um I time so thank you I'm I'm almost there um as far
as a prior individual mentioned the parking and concerns and how it was addressed at Council already and we have complained or put in complaints to code and counil multiple times and Morty you
were there last time when cun directly stated to me that she will handle the safety concerns for heisen because you're on the council also you were there and she said she will personally handle it and in fact we've had three
accidents and many more we're conest we're going Way Beyond the scope of what we can do I understand I know that I know that but I got to shut you down and you said it's like a family your neighbors are supposed to be nice and polite Dr Camp if I could just respond
quickly to get Camp if I just respond so we're going one at a time coun if you choose to respond but I think we're getting into we're getting beyond the territory I just going to respond I will follow up with council president C on that later after the meeting and we'll be in touch okay and with the county
because they've been in direct contact as well correct thank you good evening since I have to swear in again my name is Michelle yes I am do you swear to tell the truth you swear or affirm to tell the truth to hold truth nothing but the truth why wouldn't I of
course why I don't know do you it's affirmative you have to I just got married 36 years ago so I'm getting married again tonight I has it been a happy marriage I I don't know I came home from New Hampshire to be here tonight I'm very happy for you unfortunately I wasn't there I'm sure
you were Mr and I know you're dead I've been around a long time all right let's get to my points for 10 minutes or however many minutes you allow me five um how can we share our concerns in writing after this
meeting to whomever your concern addresses so if you have that's not a real good answer there are many let me I can I so let me just keep it simple so if you have need to write stuff down if you have concerns if you have concerns regarding the application that you think
the applicant can address you can reach out directly to Mr alfery and say Hey listen I have X Y and Z concerns is there any way that you can help out all right that's what that's one way of doing it the other way is addressing it with code enforcement or the zoning
officer or anything like that but if if it has to do with this application and something that you think that they could do to address your concerns you can reach directly out to Mr alfery what can be done if things are not done in compliance in the future
code enforcement code enforcement well Jeff knows that I have his phone number so he's not going to like to hear this just saying how can I submit in opposition statement there there is no opposition
what do you mean I oppose all of this how do I sub that we we can't we can't give all right just full stop I can't give you legal advice number one okay so I try to help everybody out as much as I humanly can right I try to help to hire a lawyer Mr Shay I would go consult with
somebody I I can't give you legal advice well I try to help everybody out as much as I can just to to make sure your final decision be made on this board tonight tonight no no it's no no no so so the board after General is done when we sit
here and you we and you close the meeting you say or let me explain going to walk out of here feeling wonderful let me explain it to you okay so after General is done the only thing left to do is vote on the application the board will vote on the application because we have the time why the three police
officers are here no they're there's nobody here there's nobody here yeah they walked in and walked out what does that have to do such a concern you're talking about with everybody speaking oh my gosh do you want me to continue talking about what I want you to continue because you're an attorney are you kidding me our PL you
know what you're being rude I'm trying to help you you're being rude I'm trying to help you you're being rude do you have anything else you want to ask me do you have anything else you want to ask me okay so are the applicants present and do they live on Scotland and
orwood and you know that's the applicant we have many members of the congregation here so they have not come up to speak once they nor nor do they have to okay are plans available after the meeting the reports and the plans available plans are available on on the
website on the township website I did go to town hall and I spoke to the secretary or this young lady I picked up stuff um usually a month ago um is it the same as it's being present there might be newer ones too are always available yeah at the municipal Annex
for anyone who wants to view them right so so there's two there's two ways that you can look at everything number one I've gone to her office number one you everything's posted online so there's actually a subfolder on the planning board website with all the documents that the applicant relies upon during during the hearing right and and all the
expert reports and everything like that alternatively you have the right as as an interested party anybody does really that lives within the township to go and inspect the file with uh with the board secretary um and to verify that the documents are all there right so anybody
has the ability of doing that either before the before the application during the hearing or after so I hear that they're having both male showers and female showers in this structure there is there are two mikas in this
building one for females and one for males map number three please all right we're all right so just to reiterate just need to see map number three that they showed just to reiterate this is about General comment not cross
examination that's over with it the other if you want to make a general comment about map number three Anthony if you could if you could please pull it up I hear all the size out there I'm sorry but I've lived here for 31 years and I need to get this no that that's fine as long as a general com that's
that that's as good as we're going to get it was actually the one before but that's okay um that driveway where exactly is that driveway where it is now where it currently exists no it's not where it is now you're just making statements so no
I know where the driveway that they comeing in out that where they're coming in and out of now ma'am you you this is not about questions this is about comments you have opinions as well as I do because just had the ability of asking cross-examination questions we
gave you as much time as you needed or wanted and you sat back down we were very clear in the fact that it's separated into two different parts one cross examination one General that's the Robert Rules of Order process is based upon do you have
a general comment left how are they pulling in and out of there that's a question do you have an opinion about the application yeah it sucks okay great time's over you're done thank you thank you would anybody else like to come
forward and make a general comment seeing no one else come forward I move the close the public comment section of this application solivan all in favor I I Mr alfair would you like to uh
conclude yeah just very briefly um the use as we all know is a permitted use the house of worship and the Mikvah is a permitted accessory use under the ordinance the only variance being sought is the front yard setback which is an existing condition the board the uh
applicants planner placed the necessary proofs on the record in that number one it's an existing condition number two there's no exterior changes so it still looks like a house from the front um number three there's no activity out front so the front yard setback doesn't
impact in any way the public because everything happens behind the building uh We've agreed to address the board's comments the board professional comments we've agreed to deal with the Landscaping the lighting as indicated previously uh storm water management will be addressed we've agreed to the
crosswalk and the signage based upon the county we petitioned and if the governing body wants to stop parking on that street before we ask they certainly have the right to um so we've addressed all the comments we understand the Public's concerns and I sympathize with them but the issue is this application
if approved and when built is going to be far uh superior to the conditions now which we understand are not favorable to the neighborhood and this will be an improvement and we'd request that the board Grant the approvals with the agreements and stipulations that we placed on the
record all right ask anyone have any comments on the board I just had one question um Mr alfier you had mentioned that you were going to speak to your to the op I apologize they agreed going forward lights will be off by 10 p.m. as we agreed on the main application I'm
sorry I forgot to say that so yes that would be certainly something that will be implemented immediately right immediately yes immediately excellent 42 minutes you have 42 minutes I have a
question you going Jeff okay as much as I tried my hardest tonight to avoid giving the Good Neighbor speech you're going to get it now okay first thing you're going to do is you're going to get rid of the
ambulance second thing you're going to do is you're going to cut the lights and you're going to start getting into gear I'm watching a bunch of guys sit there and smirk okay this application should have been done in 45 minutes
because it's conforming it's conforming do you understand that guess what's not conforming your behavior your actions you want to fit into an neighborhood act like a
neighbor we all have differences but we all live together it's not a joke to sit up here and be tortured by what is become the reality around this application it's not
funny ask Mr alery about 10 stubin okay I ripped him a new one because the guy was doing three other things other than what he should have been doing including using his swimming pool at a commercial building which was a
residence is there any difference with what's going on here I don't think these people are wrong I've driven by it I think the least obligation that you can commit to tonight is behaving
you're not good neighbors but you can be Mr Tremor all right um when we read the fire department report it's only the first review you said that you talked to the
Fire official and you talked about grade and everything else correct uh this plan was uh resubmitted three or four weeks ago and to ensure that uh the Fire official who did not yet um submit a second review is okay with the plan I
sat with the Fire official with this plan did you not just only give the Fire official an 8 and 1 half by 14 piece of paper that was a to no a to scale um plan how's the scale one it's only 8 by 14 it's a regular a piece of
paper he can't approve anything without seeing the three-foot plans correct cor correct and this is conditioned on on that and he came to my office well what you don't know is I talked to the Fire official yes he had no pitch he had no scale the Fire official was in my was in
my office right you weren't done yet you just asked if he was okay to move the driveway to the other side yes correct so I find it offenses that's that's even here you're lying to the board I I'm I'm I'm I'm I'm sorry I'm I'm not clear the
Fire official was I sat with the Fire official to review the plane all you did was show them a piece of paper that had a drawing not a plan cuz you didn't have plans yet correct I so how are we even doing this
I sat with Mr grman with the plans with these 8 and 1 half by 14 is not a plan is it all right so just just to be clear Mr Tremor so so the applicant has agreed to agree to all the conditions that that the fire department will send in a
supplemental letter and does the applicant agree to provide fulls siiz plans from here on out to the Fire official and and send it to their office with time stamp and received why is it okay to BS the board here it's I don't think he's being BS
and I think he just he all right he's sugar coding the facts what if the fire official turns around and says this driveway doesn't work well then they don't they have to come back before the board I have every intention I but I want I want no but that that's part that's part of that's part of resolution
compliance so so if the Fire official comes back and says you have to do X Y and Z in in a supplemental letter that they have to get now right then and they don't agree to that and that changes something significantly they have to come back before us for full full on
everything again I understand all that yeah they understand all that I want them to all understand we're not what people perceive us as we are here for the people I feel very badly I try and do a
job every time I try and put it out there I have board members that give me a hard time you know and I don't know I'm just beyond frustration it's you show a piece of paper you can't even get a fire truck you have a a
parking lot with cars parked that will deny access to a building with ladders so it's only the first review there's going to be a big change here so I just want people understand what they see is may not what they get here well they're going to have
to comply yeah well I hope so because he needs to have another they they have to or else they don't get the CO or zoning permit you know I mean I I just I know it's not in our purview but I don't understand how they continue on when they've made changes and they haven't reach resubmitted fully approved plans
for everybody to review it's skirting the process we we made a subm the engineer made a full submission to the board Secretary of the new plans but um whether the engineer the Fire official received them or not I can't
comment but you you spoke to him so you know he only sh in his office a week ago there's no way he got them because they weren't done yet yes they were no no they I I wanted to make sure that the fire officials saw the Revol plans cuz I'm aware that once plans are resubmitted they don't always get
everywhere he sat in my office after the plans were I he sat in my office with the current plans I wanted to make sure that he saw the plans because I'm aware as as well as the landscape I wanted to make sure that he saw it so I I did I wanted to make sure I knew that he would
not necessarily receive resubmitted plans so what we looked at was resubmitted plans and either way the applicant is going to need to get an approval from the Fire official and I wanted to make sure I was I was comfortable that the Fire official is
going to approve the revised plan I I understand that but it's still skirting it a little bit I mean you like to see the full plan and absorb it find the little nuances sometimes you have to walk away then you come back and you see what you didn't
see at first and that's part of the process that that's failing us but that's again it's my personal issue I apologize if I offended anybody but I just I find it very frustrating being here there are
some days I don't want to be here because I feel like I'm not doing my job anyone else comments anything from our professionals thank you we'll accept a motion please let me just set the playing field real
quick so uh it's a permitted use it's almost totally conforming uh they're asking for one variance it's a hardship variance within the law that dictates what a hardship variance is this type of situation Falls squarely within a
significant body of that case law um that's it that's all they're asking we have the list of conditions that's on the record along with all the concessions that they're going to uh do with the neighbors to make sure everything complies and and they're good neighbors um that's on the record as well and also as a condition of approval
um and I'll leave it to you guys I'll look for a motion please i' like to make a motion to approve this application with the C1 variant for the 42.5 foot
setback and with all conditions that were put forward today because frankly as my colleague said these applicants whether intentionally or unintentionally have not been very good neighbors to the people around
them this application will bring this applicant into Conformity and should improve the lives of those that live around this application I sincerely hope that the
applicant will go forward and take responsibility for their actions in the past and improve their relationship with their neighbors and with that I motion to approve this
application look for a second based on all the testimony you heard tonight and echoing what Mr saloman said I will second that motion heler we'll have a roll call vote Please Mr Bernstein yes Mr
marzo yes Mr heler yes Mr rker with all the conditions stated and that the immediately cease and desist I'll vote Yes Mr Rogers yes Mr
trer no I think there's just too many exceptions that need to be fixed Mr wall Mr Sullivan yes Dr Campbell yes congratulations thank you thank you all take a motion to adjourn please
motion to adjourn second Sullivan all in favor all right see you uh not next not in two weeks in a month we'll need the break