##VIDEO ID:k3B9IA5DN1g## e e e e e e e e e e e e I to flag United States amice all right everybody Welcome to the Jackson Township planning board November 4th meeting this meeting has been appropriately uh noticed in all the appropriate forums and Fashions and places according to the open public meetings act and I will pass it off to you madam chairman thank you um we'll have a roll call please Mr Bernstein Mr marzo Mr heler here Mr rker here Miss Rose Mr Tremor here Mr weart Mr wall here Mr Sullivan here Dr Campbell here thank you now we'll have a motion for payment of voucher for recording secretary please so move solivan second rker roll call please Mr brzy yes Mr heler yes Mr rker yes Mr sorry Mr Rose Mr Tremor yes Mr weart Mr wall Mr Sullivan yes Dr Campbell yes there's a um change in the agenda schedule block 2603 Lot 27 block 490 LLC is carried from tonight to January 13th for re for scheduling purposes only you need a um motion please motion to move the application Sullivan second hel roll call please Mr Brey yes Mr heler yes Mr rker yes M Rose yes Mr Tremor yes Mr Ward yes Mr wall Mr Sullivan yes Dr Ken yes um just a uh brief update on the master plan the committee met for four hours again yesterday and U did an edit of the second half um so we're well on schedule and I'm will be very happy for uh the community to see the work we've done for the last nine months on to uh engineering or planning matters gentlemen thank you um I don't believe there are any resolutions tonight any board matters for discussion none at this time all right then we'll move on to Applications good evening good evening chairman me chair Madam chair members of the board Dante alir on behalf of the applicant um we are here with regards to um MW nj113 LLC the property address is Toms River Road it's block 17101 Lots 9.07 and 9.09 we are here seeking the board's approval for a major subdivision creating six new residential lots and one open space lot um if the board remembers this this was a previously approved subdivision many many years ago um that was never perfected we are here seeking the board's approval tonight of a very similar um application I have two individuals who are going to provide testimony I have our engineer and our planner so well let's listen to uh our engineer and our planner first okay thank you thank you um thank you madam chair um do is correct in that um subdivision to establish uh six um uh Lots um and one open space lot of just under 60 um 61 Acres um one of the first questions I would have would be um who's going to own that open space lot um the project does need um a variety of um variants um relief uh with and Frontage um it's proposed to have all the setbacks meet the um uh requirements of the Zone um so we should have some testimony from the applicant regarding these um these variances um there's also um individual storm water management basins provided in all the Lots uh so the question comes up of who maintains those basins and what guarantees are going to be put in place to make sure those drainage facilities aren't altered by some future resident we should have some discussion regarding the um um improvements to gets Lane um and specifically the um I'll say the um interface between existing gets Lane um beyond the site and how the new gets Lane is going to tie in into that ex existing roadway um again a support of the variances um uh from testimony regarding the support of the variances that's all at this time thank you Mr peders thank you madam chair Mr C covered just about all of it project is in the fa6 forest Zone District um there are a number of variances that are required that will need some supporting testimony for the board to approve um and as there is reference to the previous approval we'd like to hear some specifics about gets Lane how much what how long what's going on how it impacts the adjacent Property Owners um we have a report dated October 15 2024 the applicants um professionals did reach out to us I had an opportunity to go over them so I suspect we'll get some affirmative testimony right away thank you very good Mr alair thank you so without further Ado I'll have our first individual come up and provide testimony son yes good ahead done Mr Po can you please state your name and spell your name for the record SAR in first please raise your right hand do you swear or affirm that tell the truth the whole truth nothing but the truth I do right please state your name and spell your last yoseph portnoi p r t noi licensed professional engineer in state of New Jersey uh um I I've have um appeared before this board in the past um on a couple occasions is your license current my license is current welcome thank you board accept financials we do Mr Poo you heard um some of the comments from the board professionals having a little trouble hearing you sorry um you heard some of the comments from the board professional before we delve into those could you please just introduce the application itself and describe one one second so are you be testifying as an engineer and a planner or just an engineer I have a separate planner to testify yeah okay okay so just an engineer then just an engineer just Eng okay good evening um do we have any of the exhibits that were shared um I believe there was a existing aerial exhibit thank you okay so this um exhibit shows the existing um lot as Noti as it's a block 17101 lots 9.07 and 9.09 lot 9.07 is approximately 56.57 Acres fronting on South Sun Tavern Road and 9.09 um that's um 60 the larger lot is 9.07 and 9.09 is approximately 11.15 Acres fronting on Toms River Road and the unimproved g goats Lane a marginally improved goats Lane approximately 67.7 Acres combined so the the lot vacant you know some wooded are some cleared areas there's a there was a significant amount of wetlands on it um and there's a jcpnl right away cutting through the southern part between running from South Su Tavern to J to um h River Road goats Lane um we mentioned is a marginally improved there's there's like a gravel drive there um driveway there it's providing access to some of these there are some Lots inside so there's a public RightWay that ends along the frontage of 9.09 and then there is a RightWay easement that continues farther into the site which overlaps part of this subject property see is a little finger um outline the red there of the property that's within the RightWay that RightWay easement but it encompasses some other area that provide access to some of those other um Lots um which provides access to Lots 10 through 14 um so this as not this is in the fa6 far Zone with it's in the pands area so the site received subdivision prior subdivision approval um just in my correction the subdivision was actually perfected the map was filed and then to create six single family lots on what is currently lot 9.09 at that time it was in the PV Zone um the lot 9.07 was remainder was in the fa3 zone at the time um now everything is in the fa6 zone um that that subdivision um did include variances for minimum lot depth of the corner lot of the subdivision at the corner of GS goats and tons River Road so the plat was filed but then in 200 in 2006 and the lots 9.01 and to through 9.06 were reconsolidated in 2020 to create the current lot 9.09 so this was subdivided was consol reconsolidated by by a previous owner so this is an application to sort of to re subdivide generally in um generally along the original subdivision but the Zone has changed to fa6 in the meantime so there have been some modifications to better conform with the with the current um the current zoning um are you able to pull up the subdivision aerial exhibit there was a subdivision areial like uh overlay of this okay this is that um if you're you're able to zoom in on the subdivision portion um at the t Road portion thank you so the the application is to subdivide this these two lots and to create six single family residential lots three fronting tons River Road um three fronting on goats lane and then the remainder lot um with the with remaining acreage um the Lots there's a mandatory in the fa6 zone is a Mander clustering requirement to create one acre lots um and then another five acres of conservation for each lot so these the proposed lots are range from 1.1.0 to 1. to 8 Acres um and they're and will'll be providing the rest um of the conservation area so there a minimum required know for the six developable acres there's a minimum requirement of 30 Acres of Conservation area which will be deed restricted um much of the remaining area was already in the conservation easement associate with the original approval um but we will and provide uh um know a know a a plan of the and and conservation easement associated with this for anything we for to meet any require all the requirements um as noted there are variances for minimum lot width and minimum Frontage um the original subdivision at the rigal at the time riginal subdivision this was in the PV Zone could you just show us with your pointer where the access is from the street going to the lotes just so everybody can see how yeah so we could pull up the site plan the the the Improvement plan um that will show in more detail um from the site plan set I believe it should be sheet um four yes thank you so there are three lots over here fronting on the Toms River Road um and the three lots fronting on the goats Lane um there are variances required for minimum lot width where 100 the original subdivision was based on the PV Zone which allowed 125t lot width um and the current fa6 Zone requires 150 ft so and and to S recreate that subdivision um would is um requires a a a variance for lot with and Frontage there was no Frontage requirement at the time of the original subdivision um there also as know there is a setback there is a lot dep variance for the corner lot which was a you know similar to what was on the original subdivision as well um note that is consistent the the lot width is consistent with with nearby single family H Lots within the fa6 zon there's a on the east side of T River Road um there's there's several um single family lots with 100 foot width um to the north along toxedo Court there's also a several there's a number of lots that with 125t width and Frontage um and when the planner will provide no testimony regarding the variance is required um the we will comply with as no will comply with the setback requirements will comply with the maximum clearing limit of 20,000 Square ft per developed line Lots per developed lot um the proposed improvements in Tom River include Tom River tons Road has already been um has curb installed I believe as part of the original subdivision or or some County improvements we are proposing sidewalk along times River Road Street trees um we're adjusting some the original when the original curb was put in there were depressed curbs put in for the driveways based on the original subdivision some of those are shifting a little bit um goats Lane is proposed to be improved as a it is a public RightWay it's been proposed to be improved as a public RightWay with a 25 24t wide pavement width which is consistent with with the original design um that was approved as part of the orig the original subdivision curving on both sides sidewalk along the north side um there was a comment that the the sidewalk ended at the last driveway but we will extend that to the end of to to the end of the public RightWay to along the lot lighting no Street lighting and Street trees um as not goats Lane does continue with that um right away easement to access additional Lots so the grading you know the pavement and Grading you know designed to tie into the existing grades there so it could continue to be utilized to access those lots um there are no improvements there there is a frontage along South Sun Tavern Road uh the remainder lot there are no improvements proposed along that Frontage um so the plans show no six single family houses they're called down the Plant five bedrooms approximate 1,800 foot Footprints um side with with the the driveways ACC Comon like the side lader garage um complying with the setback tax coverage requirements the Lots not knowing that the Lots will be sold know will be sold um know with it will be sold and the the homeowner the purchasers will Design their own houses and will need to submit plot plans to town for approval um there is no water sewer available so it's know to be be service by private well and septic we did provide a septic plant to confirm feasibility spacing to be able to fit septics um the drainage it was to um are able to go to the drain the grading um sheet I believe the the next sheet on the set thank you um each lot is is proposed to have an individual infiltration Basin this is necessary to comply with the the small scale green infrastructure requirements and the Pinelands requirements um nitrogen removal so there is an individual one uh an individual Basin on each lot um which will receive the runoff from the lawn area um each driveway is proposed to be porest pavement um and the those will be privately owned by each homeowner um there will be file maintenance uh maintenance plan for that but they will be privately owned there is no Home Owners Association um the there for the toms for goat's Lane is proposed to be treated right now there's existing the existing storm sewer on tons River Road the county storm sewer um discharges into a sort of subsurface Basin within goats Lane and there's an inlet at the the end of goats Lane where the runoff bubbles out so it's gets discharged from tons Road gets collected by storm sewer goes into perforate pipe along the length of goat's lane and then you know any anything overflow bubbles out of the inlet and will and continues into for the most part into the remainder of the site um goats land is proposed for the stor the rigal storm War management designed for goats Lane the rigal subdivision obviously not per the green infrastructure current rainfall requirements so that needed to be redesigned so it's proposed to construct um a porest pavement um um section of the roadway the roadway pest pavement to treat and um manage that runoff associated with the road um just some misell items from from the planner from from some review letters um the the regarding there a question regarding um grading will comply with the grading requirements is it is not expected to um no import is expected there may be if there there is if there is material there may be some um if there is material required to export we expect to comply with the 1,000 um cubic yard maximum for soil export based on the the the the current grer is a slight export um the planner review referenced the open space requirement of section 244 19 199 A1 um the or does not provide specific standards F6 Zone but we're noting that more than the 10% Open Spaces provided in the required Conservation Area the plannner review also reference recreational spa space requirements um B based on the ordinance section 2442 200a we're proposing six single family houses which results in 18 persons as defined by the Ordnance so the Ordnance requirements are you know for the most part larger scale talking about thousands a person so they're um believe it's beyond the the scale of this development so if a waiver is request is required we would be requesting that um we received a review from a Township Tree Specialist we'll review to address we will um we'll we'll work with we'll coordinate to address any comments here along with any know comments from the engineer the the township engineer the board engineer and [Music] planner um and also no regarding with Pinelands it the original project received a certificate of filing from the Pinelands we have met with the Pinelands about this project they've um they've confirmed they are they are considering the original approval in place they do not they're not going to be issuing a new certificate of filing um because they said this is substantially conforming with the original approval so they're relying on the original certificate filing for this application one of one of the questions the board uh professionals had was who will be retaining the open space slot who will be we're recording we're recording so have to speak into uh who will be um who will be retaining the open space lot the applicant would would be retaining the open space lot um um right now they're restrict there most of it's restricting use anyway there are some conservations Wetlands um you know wetlands and and and and buffers on that you know they but they for the most most part would be restricted either by existing know restrictions or by the any any additional proposed conservation easements as a result of this but would be intended to be owned by made made own owned by the applicant any questions from the board Mr rker okay Mr Port are you you go into these conversations that you've had with DP whatnot uh are they Quantified in writing anywhere yes it was submitted to the the the conversation with pilins we we've submitted to uh P so they're documented yes there's an email from pilins to address noting that they're relying on the original certificate f for for the record I'd appreciate if you know we say it's been documented in a letter with a date whatever because when we hear conversations I have lots of conversations but none of them are considered factless approv so just for clarity record I would appreciate that thank you okay I apologize um the documentation was submitted as part of the application because there's a requirement for certificate filing that was submitted okay thank you and and do you have the date of the original approval the original um subdivision approval yeah for the pins commission the pining approval believe I have a for apologize I thought I had that printed out but I did not see it let me see it might be referenced in the review letters because that was included in the correspondence submitted let me see if it's noted than the review letters Mr rker if I might our report indicates that the original certificate of filing was dated September 19 2000 so I believe that information was submitted as part of the application um I'm not testifying for the applicant it's just what I wrote in my report so I'm going to stand by it 24 years ago yes we we cannot require we we we asked the P lens no to we resubmit we can't force sent the issue of certificate filing we requested they said um they said they that we have the email that they submitted that they sent us in response to our request for it there was submitted to the um I agree Madam chair um that's one of the first things that I question about a certificate of filing because it can't be deemed complete without it um the appli did provide a um email from um between the applicant and the pylons um as Mr Peter has indicated it was originally had a certificate of filing in September of 2000 and we have a email from um the pons commission November 15 2023 that says basically we can use the old certificate of filing for this application that's all I wanted to know good that's good thank you because 24 years is a long time yeah it's a little unusual understood would they pretty backed up there so they're looking to avoid any work they can let's just put it this way I didn't have any gray hairs back then but but even with that certificate of filing that the piling commission said is okay to use now they're still going to have to go back to the pons and get a a no callup letter all right any other questions from the board at this time for this gentleman M any comments from our professionals at this time yeah um just just a couple the applicant is going to own the 61 acre um open space lot correct um and there's individual drainage basins provided on all the properties to be developed what kind of guarantee can we establish that when the um future homeowner comes in he doesn't like this hole in the ground he fills it he fills it in how do we make sure that that doesn't happen so I believe the current storm water rules require you know any green infrastructure to be deed restricted so we file a a deed restriction on those you no canile meets and Bounds no around that that proposed uh know Green infrastructure as required by so those restrictions could be put on a final plat where anybody who going to buyy this slot will know what they can and can't do correct right it'll run with the land yeah so it'll run with the land correct correct if there's ever modification to that that would need to be filed if they someone wants be title so if anybody title sir she'll be able to see it correct um and the only other comments relate to um get Lane where I think you had indicated that the sidewalk is going to be extended all the way to the um end of the property that's correct um and can we get some additional detail in of how that new gets Lane is going to blend into or Match Into the existing gets Lane I know it's a probably a dirt road but we have some more um details for that we provide more information on that yeah um you had indicated that um Tom Road has drainage in in place now and there's some type of recharge pipe in gets yes there there there's a county system in t River Road it comes to intersection of gets lane and then there's a recharge we we can forward the the county plans um that was the county didn't require any additional improvements on t Road they did ask to add more detail of their you know there some they share their plans with us to add to the to to our plans because a lot of it is paved over so it's not visible can can we get the um specifics of that existing system on the plans you telling me that now is the first time I've heard that there was anything in existing drainage and gets yeah there was a lot of it's been paved over if you look at the end the Terminus of get of the guess the end of the the RightWay there is an existing um catch base in there which was which is a overflow from it um it was the Ser when we did the survey a lot of things were not matching up the county now has now shared their plans with us so there is a no main line down tons River Road the manholes are all paved over so it's not visible um and then there is a believe a 24 30 inch recharge pipe the perforated pipe going down got got slain with that inlet at the end where which would overflow okay um just so if we can get that information put on the plan and also goes back to how is the new get Lan going to interface or connect to if there's a drainage system back there or whatever think they should be on the plans okay yes we will include more more information regarding that and the only other question relates to the surfacing of gets there's permeable pavement um proposed yes how does that Stack Up maintenance wise to your typical um 621 pavement section so it's becoming more common now with you know the now with the new with the green infrastructure rules where where're those are those are going in a lot more it's really the same maintenance maintenance no sweeping or the there's no special maintenance just has to be restricted it has cannot be you know paved over you know in the future sealed or some way um it could be salted you know as as a regular as as a regular pavement but they're no no I I'm not aware if the the town has other horse pavement right away or not there's the original subdivision plan had called for a Swale along G Lane um however that was designed based on the the earlier storm waterer rules um with the green infrastructure and with the current rainfall run runoff amounts again that was 20 years ago um the original design is not feasible um I would agree with the green infrastructure we're starting to see more and more of this perious pavement um and for a private site that's fine it's somebody's else's responsibility to maintain um this is going to be the town's responsibility to maintain and I'm just wondering um are these the town really equipped um to maintain it they have I'm sure they have street street sweepers um but would the um applicant be willing to extend the maintenance period once the road's built it's bonded once it's built they have to provide a maintenance Bond I think typically it's two years is the maintenance Bond five years thank you um if we could maybe extend if it is five extended maybe seven no objection thank that's all mam chair yes sir Mr Port no I you had indicated the maximum clearing for each lot is limited to 20,000 square feet is that something that's going to be put in Deeds for each of the individual Lots as part of the approval I can we we'll submit a um as part resolution should we approvable Grant they will submit a um no exibit showing the the clearing limit on each lot and that can be I'm not sure you answered my question respectfully I want to know if your attorney and our attorney is going to have something that says Lot 1 2 3 4 5 six each of them can only have a 20,000 foot limit of disturbance and it runs with the land yes I will work with Mr Shay's office to make sure we have that in place thank you from an engineering perspective there appear to be about a dozen variances for Dien relief um would it be possible to remove those variances by building fewer Lots it would be possible to remove those from no thank you I expect you guys are going to make a great argument as to why they're reasonable variances I just need to have that on record as it relates to the use of permeable pavement have you reviewed that either with the township engineer or the Public Works director for their input we have we have not reviewed we have not discussed it specifically we have submitted a plans we did not receive any specific feedback on on the use on that use I think it might be a reasonable condition as part of resolution of compliance to at least get some recognition by the township engineer Andor the Public Works director the ones who are going to have to be responsible for taking care of it forever and ever and understanding this is the beginning of green infrastructure I can tell you we as Mr C said we see on Plenty of private sites when the town has to take care of it we're not sure sitting here as a planning board if our public works department is ready to take care of it or more importantly reconcile its useful life for bonding purposes so whether it's you know the useful life of a street with very little vehicular traffic could be 20 25 30 years is poorest pavement going to last that long when you have to turn garbage trucks or or vehicles around at the end of it and at that point in time will Public Works be able to replace horest pavement with porous pavement or is someone just going to go and pave it over so I think at least just some if the applicant reaches out to the people who are responsible for it and provide a response I mean if the Public Works director stands on a soap box and says not a chance well we've got something but I don't disagree with Mr port's representation that it's part of green infrastructure structure and it is where we're heading I just respectfully the township engineer and the Public Works director don't come to our meetings are there specifications that you could provide on the uh lifetime of a surface like this there are specifications I I do not know the lifetime I would have to look into that I know now it has been recent years it's been more standardized the dot has specs on it um and they're used on projects so we'll we can Pro do research and provide useful if would be useful if you could provide those to our engineer and planner we will we will do that thank that's all I have Madam chair thank you anything from the board this gentlemen thank you okay thank you very much thank you um so our second individual to provide testimony would be our planner John teina all right how you doing I'm great how are you I haven't see you in a while yeah do you swear or affirm to tell the truth the whole truth nothing but the truth I do all right please state name and spell your last of the record he doesn't need the microphone you don't read T is Thomas a I'm a liced the state of New Jersey have been since 1992 when I completed my studies at Ruckers University uh for the last 32 years I've been a planner in private practice um representing mostly representing applicants before uh boards just like this uh I haven't been here in more than 20 years before your planning board I have been your zoning board several times in the last year and more than 175 boards overall oh we accept your credentials and welcome thank you so much um so I'm here you don't want to ask me anything right go ahead didn't think so um so I'm here to talk about the application planning standpoint Basics we are on the fa6 forest Zone um it is a cluster Zone buer ordinance so we have one acre lots uh minimum for our development lots and then we are required to have five acres of uh conservation land for each developed lot uh so we are able to provide that and we will be exceeding that to a certain extent um in terms of our bulk relief uh Mr Peters is correct that we uh we do require uh lot WID and lot Frontage variances which are kind of the same thing um on uh on several of our Lots along Toms r road as well as along gets Lane as indicated in his uh in his planning review um so uh you know we do need uh bulk variance relief here so in this instance I would I would argue that these are what are called C2 variances or the flexible C the planning variance uh where the benefits of granting that variance outweigh the det outweigh any possible detriments um in terms of uh the standard the board's standards are somewhat specific uh first and foremost that uh relates to a specific property uh within the township secondly um that we show how those benefits outweigh the detriments and that standard is is set forth in a case called Poland uh V sou planfield where you look at the overall benefits uh versus the overall detriment so it's not like just the individual benefit and detriment of the individual variances for lot width or a lot Frontage uh but you look at the overall positives and the overall negatives of the project and you balance them out um the second case to look at there is called uh coffin the planning board of Warren Township again this was the seminal case that talked about C1 and C2 variances um and really explain what the standard is there um so they're kind of the two um two cases that provide us the road mapap and Boards don't always like hearing me talk that I refer to legal cases but I only refer to them in the CA in the standpoint of they provide the road map that's been laid out by the by the prior boards and by the courts to say these are the things we'd like you to find in granting this relief so that's why um why we refer to that um and then fin uh not finally but additionally you'll need to show that we advance uh some purposes of zoning um and then finally as with all your variances as you know we need to satisfy the negative criteria do we have any substantial detriment to public good or to our neighbors in general and are we having a substantial impairment on your Zone plan your master plan so first and foremost um this does specifically relate to this uh 61 uh acre 61 plus acre 67 acre property excuse me uh on Toms River Road Block 17101 Lots 9007 and 909 and no other property um this relief solely relates to this property uh it doesn't power in precedent throughout the township it is only related to the specific uh conditions that will discuss uh that affect this property and surroundings um in terms of uh our um advancing our purposes of zoning uh I'd submit to you that there are three uh purpose e and I apologize I do read them uh purpose e to promote the establishment of appropriate population densities and concentrations that will contribute to the well-being of persons neighborhoods ands and Environ G for a variety of agricultural resal recre commercial open space uses both public and private according to their respective reement to meet all newey I'm going toti those um so specifically he relates to appropriate population densities really talk about One Acer rain1 and ACR will be restricted as open conservation within that area and it will be held so again we heard discuss terms terms ofici location we think that one acre L plus so we have more than 1255 wide but they're also deeper than the 250 so add land theer that development we've already testified that we will have the onsite individual stor management uh we will have requir 20,000 agree to place that as a restriction um is actually going above and beyond um but they're still going to have that restri additional benefit and um we are satisfying all the requisite environmental requirements uh foration and provar Li and Prov the individual onsite stor management which again is a a very detailed process is a again a burden on the homeowner that they're going to have to take on it is going to be restricted and likewise have management Lane and that's both from count standpoint preserve and from the town terms understand is different Public Work people Etc but it is the Mandate of the state how these things have to be hand um and again much like much like I'm sure in the 1980s and 1990s Public Works people didn't like having this is of impr theu EnV terms of the over benefits again L we're providing for in excess of 30 Acres of conservation we have 60 Acres overall and more than 30 Acres will be preserved as restri addal open and Beyond minim we believe in fashion using the two existing streets it's kind of more in keeping with what's going on within that area of Tom River Road we do have sixs excuse me immediately across the street from us road that are also 125 ft so again keeping with the cman decision one of the findings of the decision is R par is warranted when it preserves community and neighborhood character we have 125 F Lots across the street Road 12 on this side we already heard add add little less relevant I think the that are [Music] most so I think that overall the overall benefit of the open of the environmental prot and of the consistency with neighbor AC the street I think being AC the street like you neighborh I'm nobody to in terms of our negative criteria again I think we're having no detriment at all to our neighbors Etc our lot are certainly big enough providing for appropriate Environmental Management terms of storm water and those things we have all of our public improvements that are be curbs sidewalks lighting Etc um I could that given the area on to Road would almost be a little more appropriate if we weren soov um but again I think that set improved fut development Contin that curving liting let me let me interrupt for just a second um one of the issues that we're having is this is recorded and it is on zoom and if you don't use the microphone people at home cannot hear what you're saying we can hear you very well here but the microphones are tied into the system okay I'm sorry you kind of told me not to but I'm perfectly happy to use microphone it's just we want the people at home to be comfortable absolutely Miss c i that I have no objection using a microphone ever um I don't need to repeat myself though right no okay sorry just making sure no um and then I'm going to conclude just with our negative criteria in terms of our uh impact on our master plan and and our ordinance in terms of uh your master plan um a key goal is working towards a balanced Community I think that we're balancing all these goals um whether they are quality of life environmental constraints and providing opportunities for development and Redevelopment uh in terms of uh specific objectives uh one of them is we envision Jackson Township will continue to evolve in to a well- balanced Community we for Community provides a diversity of residential opportunities uh for all types of households and a community that protects and preserves its natural environment through proper regulation and stewardship so I think we have those two balances specifically being represented here and then finally to achieve a pattern of mix of land uses that achieves various Community planning objectives including provisions of quality neighborhoods protection of natural resources and the creation of desirable and livable community so again I think these are um criteria that we are objectives of remaster plan that we are specifically advancing and we are certainly in no way impairing them when you have development that is at the specified density providing for substantial open space preservation I think that is exactly what Jackson Township is looking for in terms of its um in terms of its development pattern um and again I think that having a a neighborhood on on one side of Toms River Road that is reflective of the neighborhood on the other side of Toms River Road is absolutely an appropriate neighborhood balance uh for the board to strike um we believe that uh again we we've stated all of our bulk requirements Etc will be will be complied with uh so we're going to have no impairment on your ordinance there uh and again we are specifically advancing the purpose of the fa6 zone to provide transitional development between protected Forest areas and regional growth so we're going to have development along Toms River Road and along guest Lane where we have development now and we're going to have preservation behind it as it transitions into the forest uh that exists um to that side of uh Tom River Road so for these purposes I believe the board has the ability to Grant um to Grant the relief that is requested um I have available for your questions I do want to answer um uh Mr Peter's question about that the number of lots Etc so um again we felt it was most appropriate to draw the Lots along the existing streets and have the least amount of impact on the area do I believe that there is a scenario where we could cut a street through the middle um and have a culdesac kind of beyond the end of our uh our established lot and have you know two additional Lots there instead of um the short lots that we have along time River Road yes I believe there is a street alternative that could have been that could have been drawn and could have been presented it would be much more disruptive to the neighborhood and it would provide for Less conservation land than what is proposed here so I think that this this represents a better planning alternative than that a potential development alternative now we didn't present it I I recognize that but um given the width even of our um what I'll call Our Kind of our short stem that continues out into the property it's more than 300 feet wide so um again we need 250 for the lot and 50 for the street so we would have been able to run a street up one side and kind of have lots um dropping off along the other side so again I think that um this represents a better and less intrusive and disruptive development alternative than a street alternative would uh and I think it's a better alternative for the township so again for those reasons I think you have the ability to make the requisite findings and I'm am available for your questions but I wanted to make sure that I addressed Mr Peters specific question that he did ask Mr Peters any questions comments for this gentleman that's true yeah all right Mr CLE anything from you any questions from this sport you know I I apologize but I do have uh several questions for the engineer again certainly thank you thank you I willon leave don't leave thank you Mr the public still gets to ask you questions I can't wait yes uh I don't recall hearing may maybe I just missed it uh about the um water and sewer situations there's City water no city sewer how are we so doing this I did I did we hear testimony about that yes a very brief I I'd like a little more in depth so there is no Public Water and Sewer available so it's proposed to service these with individual Wells and septic systems what type of septic systems more specific I think we'd like to hear um I know often in the pine lands sometimes you're required to have a advanced treatment it's it's a factor based on the what they call dilution model depends on on available the total area compared to the flows in this situation the pine LS um it won't is not requiring an advanced treatment they're they're okay with the standard septic system you have that in writing somewhere I do have cor I believe I have that corresponds if not we'll we'll Prov we we'll provide that to the board please please make sure to provide that thank you no I guess that was it it was the it was the scept uh so anything from this board and if not then we will go to the public anyone wishing to ask any questions of these two um experts you are more than welcome to come forward well you may come forward ma'am just just a second do we have a we have a little process here okay go ahead all right so so these questions is going to be cross- examination questions for the experts is you you specifically ask the engineer the planer any questions you want um but I have to swear yet so uh please raise your hand do you swear or affirm to tell the truth the whole truth and nothing but the truth I do all right and please state your name and spell your last of the record uh Donna Cal Kei D L and they live at 5:30 for get Lane all right about it now please make sure to use the microphone because we are recording really short and thank you roll it down it's at at your level and just get close so I I bought my property on gine in 1987 when I did that I had to Widing the road to 20 feet out of our own pocket we had to go in front of the Pinelands in front of this board as well none of you were probably here and we had to widen the road to 20 feet at our own cost to build our homes the there was two we bought 10 acres and divided it into two lots the township has never maintained the road to the WID that we had to make it even though we had to improve it right now the road has gotten narrower and narrower you could see that probably who's ever been there they did put the road is also a hill I don't know if anybody mentioned that the road does come downhill from 571 and it's been rarely maintained properly they did put that very small drainage at the end I think in front of house number five 505 when it rains when it snows when we have bad weather the water completely bypasses that very small drainage that they put in and it pulls at the end of the road pretty much in front of my driveway um we've been lucky not to have very bad weather but when it does get rainy and icy it's an ice skating rink down there um my mailbox has been hit by the garbage men the mailman the little buses that come down the road a number of times because as you get down to the end like I said it becomes an ice skate Rank and you can't even stop plus the road is in very bad condition it's has so many potholes um we call all the time to um Public Works to have it graded and maintained and they really honestly don't do a good job in 1987 we said we were on the books to have the road paved I don't know how long it takes to get a road paved but we've been waiting since 1987 ma'am did you say that you widened the road to 20 feet yes so when we we first bought our property they told us that we had to widen the road to 20 ft to the end of our property for emergency vehicles I believe this I believe this applicant is widening the road to 24 feet did I that's just until into the end to the end of right to and going to go back to the tiny little road that it is the day that I needed the township to come for my house fire the trucks couldn't make it to my property and my house burned to the ground because they never they never maintain the road to the 20 ft that they were supposed to so is it a is it a dirt road it is a dirt road um they've put some packing gravel over time they've done different things so what that make me I'm not familiar with the road itself so what but so okay so hang on hang on but just to answer your question what that may mean is that it's a it's a paper road and it is yeah right so what happens in a situation like that is that if it's never been um you know asphalted or paid it has but they've come from time to time they put millings down right or twice what I'm saying to you is that that that if if it hasn't been formally dedicated as an actual asphalted Road that's built to engineering Township standards and I don't believe that the township has the ability of going out and and maintain no it is it's written in if you bring it up the easement is maintained by the township so so this this is something you may want to reach out to the township Council Township engineer something like that and well my but my my point is when they come down now whatever this pavement is or whatever this new type of road that they're going to put in what happens when it now reverts back to dirt because you look at the road now the township did come and pave part of the road years ago because where where it went up to 571 the road would deteriorate and it would leave like a gully so the township did come in and pave part of get Lane at one point so what's going to happen is that they're going to have to build it to town standards right my point is what's happening where your pavement ends and the dirt road starts again how is that going to get the township at that point what's going to happen the township engineer is going to have to make an assessment that it doesn't create a safety hazard or anything like that to you know to the excess roadway after so so he he has to do an actual assessment that you know based upon um based upon his analysis it's not going to create detrimental situations down the road I don't quote me on the exact process of that I just know that they do that as part of their checklist process at the end because there's one two three four five more houses past where it's going right but this is this is kind of way beyond the scope lot traffic or I drove down there today it's it's a mess well it's it is what it is and what it is is a paper street it's not a paved road so you know we we can't make a silk purse out of a saer either no but the township has come in and done things that yes but but this applicant will have obligations to make certain that there's a smooth transition from from their portion of the road to your portion of the road beyond that you really need you and your neighbors might want to get get together and approach the township we've tried but sorry question are they bringing natural gas to the are you bringing natural gas and down would be natural gas down to to these road down gos Lane to fin services so that and and when do we know how all this is going to come together and how their pavement is going to meet what's there now how do we know that are there more meetings do we get more notifications M Madam chair I think I know I I can answer um that was one of the comments that I had a request from the applic to get some more detail of how this new roadway is going to blend into the existing dirt roadway and the applicant agreed that he would he would do that and I can make sure that you know it's properly engineered so we just follow up on that yes thank you madam let me say one thing um I may have been on this boort in 1987 uh and you're one of the many roads in this town and when people bought houses many years ago if you mentioned Paving in front of them they tar and feia they wanted their dirt road uh and get Lane is one of them it's not a paper Road it's a dirt road and they maintain it with their graders and and every so often put some stuff down and over the years they've been catching up but they've never caught up on all of them and we have a lot of roads like that in this town and I think slowly you're going to see them all disappearing but back in the day in the 80s and the early 90s if somebody bought a house on a dirt road they didn't G they got plased with dust every day nothing don't put black top on my road so we wanted it that now that's the opposite so yes but it's not it's not only your Ro there's a lot of roads in town that haven't been addressed they put their graders out there that's the best they can do and uh with this this is being improv to the road it's just more the water that comes correct well and it will be a beginning and it's a beginning that you maybe can work off of that you can use this as a an opportunity Unity to uh revisit that section of Road thank you thank you thank you anyone else like to come forward and ask any questions seeing no one else coming somebody's coming nice try though good evening how you doing all right my name is is oh sorry there you go do you swear or affirm the tell the truth the whole truth nothing but the truth I do all right please state your name and spell your last of the record Liz Turin t r r i n all right and address ma'am I'm sorry address please uh I I'm just about to say that I'm at 526 gets Lane which is right next to the proposed development so I'm the first house uh past the top of the map there right for the first property thank you so I have several questions um don't know how much time we have but I'll try to roll through these quickly um as far as um the drainage and runoff um I know we spoke about it um address your questions to the applicant please thank you sure so so the the the runoff and drainage um I'm sure you'll have more details I'm hoping and that we'll we'll see those um regarding what happens because as as the previous person said there's a uh very small you know uh drain drain area that goes into and who knows how old those pipes are and whether they're in good condition they could be filled with who knows Rock You Know dust dirt whatever so so that's one thing that I'm I'm curious about I'm going to run through the questions and then I'll sorry because I want to make sure I capture them all um I also would like to know about the pavement and what your plans are to adjoin the two roads because we're going to turn left out of our driveway into that road every day I have horse farm I have truck and trailer um it's hard to make that turn and if I have to hit a hard pavement Road as I'm coming up that's going to cause you know repeated damage to my truck number three the traffic patterns on that road we're on a blind kind of a blind curve and there's a downhill and we're going to have a see a lot more traffic during the development and afterwards when people move in and you know I don't know what your plans are in terms of the Landscaping up there um to make it very very visible or as visible as possible but why don't we let them answer one question at a time just so we can sorry that's three I I've got a few more and let one question at a time would make it no problem so the so we'll go back to the drainage so where how are you going to are you going to replace that or are you going to you know just use the retention basins or how are you going to address the drainage issue so um that small Inlet that you mentioned at the bottom that's what I I referred to earlier that my understanding if I I know what if I know what you're referring to that's sort of right in front of your house yeah pretty much so that was not actually intended to collect water that was intended to discharge water from from the Overflow okay so that was installed by the county um at sometime and it collects the water from tons River Road and there's a underground pipe perfor pipe within goats Lane to let the water infiltrate into the ground and the excess is actually coming out of that so that was not intended as much to collect as much to discharge yes underr do you know the state of the pipe under there probably not no we have not um but this this um this will probably be providing it'll be improving goat Lane with the new pavement and which all the new pavement will be managed which should be improving the runoff coming off goats Lane um it will not be changing what's coming from the county system that's not that existing County system under their jurisdiction um but it will be improving the runoff from the goats Lane um improving that um lab pavement and treat and managing all the runoff with that in addition to some of the tons of Road runoff that's that's entering into that I'm assuming you're also like right now we're in a dry spell but it's not always like that so as she spoke about we get a lot of runoff we get ice at the end of the road and times in front of our driveway too so I mean you know you'd need all the studies you need to do would take would have to take that into account um okay the traffic patterns um and the you know reducing the risk of accident do you have anything in your plans that so we'll work with the we'll work with the engineer the traffic P at the intersection of goats is that what you're refering to because of the two because you know it's hard to see going around you know especially if there's vegetation there it's hard to see around the turn it's also kind of a blind turn we often hear people screeching around the corner because they have to slow way down because people who don't drive in that area very often forget that there's a road there that they need to slow down for so you know that's a big concern to yeah understood so there is a the county requires a side triangle easement so that corner to to is an easement where it has to be kept clear from obstructions so no fences trees that could block that so that's a require of the county to destrict that corner to make sure there's no obstructions there right do you know what the dimensions are for the the county requires a 30 foot by 100 foot um no triangle somebody have an alarm going off Anybody Everybody check their phones please make sure they're silenced thank you and then um during development of course you'll have trucks going in and out out you know heavy equipment to you know build and the road and whatever um I'm sure you're going to take into account that that affects the track traffic patterns there too what's the means for us to egress if they're coming in and Paving the road or you know because that's our only means to get on on the road during constru alternative that there I understand there's no alternative this is your access to your road so during construct that um during construction the contractor will need to coordinate with the with the township engineering department and to make sure that they construct in a way that that know maintaining access to the residents um the landscape buffering so we're on the other side we're right there and I have a hor Farm on the other side of my driveway that's where one of our paddocks are um what do you have planned in terms of Landscaping on that side on that border along that Bo it's it's not being disturbed except right near the house the rest of the property is remaining the rear of all those yards so there's just where you see along that last house there's a along that house storware base and there's a septic in the back the remainder of the property is not being disturbed okay so you don't have any any particular bushes or trees planned for that so but you are going to clear that entire lot the front no we're not clearing the front because we're limited we have a limit of per the Ordnance we have a limited amount that we're allowed to serve to 20,000 Square ft per lot so that's really encompassing the development area so along the front so it's around the yeah the remainder the mirror of the lot will not be disturbed that's going to remain as is so there's no PL it's not clear cutting we're not clearing these entire Lots because we're restricted in those in that in that clearing area just two more things um in the microphone please ma'am oh sure so two more things so um the open space lot um so if you're going to be or your applicant is going to be the private holder of that lot what um are the restrictions restrictions on what they can do and there might be question for the planner uh about what they can do with that lot in the future that's great now if it's going to be open space but are there is that a permanent restriction so they they will need to be deed deed restrictions filed on a property to anything required by the the the pands and the township that's just to maybe I can cut straight to that question so what happens with the open space is that becomes actually like a Conservation Area it's within the chain of title it's deed restricted it's pretty much nobody can do anything with it forever and ever yeah forever and it runs with the land well forever and ever until someone comes before aboard and then it's restricted so we'll all know that it's restricted right okay so in other words if someone comes before you they they can't just sell it and then somebody comes in and shops everything down they can't do that what what is the difference between them holding it versus for example the state holding it or the township holding it or you know like what is the benefit to them I'm just curious one of the benefits is to the pilin the pil in development credits okay um and then finally um Wildlife impact so we have uh deer in the area turkey and so forth and they roam free they go through my property across the street and they kind of have a pattern and what's your intention in terms of restrictions on the lot in terms of fencing or you know I mean if you can get me a tur people know that that's you know part of the land they have turkeys in their yard and deer like we all we all do just like when I have one come and fight my car door yes like it's great for pre-existing residents but for people who move into these houses who have never lived in this area then it becomes you know complaints and okay I think that's all I have I'm I'm sure other people have other questions thank thank you thank youone else questions good evening sir good evening all right please raise your right hand do you swear or affirm that tell the truth the hold truth nothing about the truth I do all right please state your name and spell your last of the record Jonathan hamr h m r i c k all right and your address 515 get L on the corner property right across gotcha uh I have a couple of questions uh not as many I don't think um you were mentioning the cleared land you're restricted to how much land you can clear to develop this correct what about the land that was already cleared the land yeah like in um 2021 2022 you had it in one of your pictures there's a big yeah there's a clearing there that was prior to as I'm not familiar with what we started off with when know we we came onto their project here when our clear and then you're going to clear out the front ends to build the houses too so it's all going to be clear cut that's my concern no so just to maybe we can kind of go back to like the procedural part so what happens is that they're they're subdividing the land right now and I I believe that they're not taking anything down um they're going to be subdividing the property selling it to whoever the end user is that end user then has to make an application back before the board to determine what type of house they want in in that footprint um once that that enduser gets an approval they then have to go get a two-year long process through resolution compliance to to get a zoning permit and then only after the zoning permit did they get the right to to cut trees down within whatever footprint they got approval for so so it's I I understand that I'm just you know I'm not an environmental scientist I'm manager sometimes when I explain the process it it becomes easier um because my concerns were I was you know looking through the township maps just trying to figure out what's going on um I wasn't actually aware that we went to fa6 I was fa3 when we first bought the property fa6 is that more restrictive with the use so when you were talking about the the PV areas with the less than 125 foot Frontage that was less restrictive back then we've gotten more restrictive since then it's gotten restrictive more restrictive now with the that's why we need the conservation area to offset the development okay so does that that comparison across the street does that matter then if that was developed prior to this increased restriction that would be a question for the plan there it's a pre-existing condition it's basically um I'll let the planner answer no it matters in terms of the existing character so if their existing character is 125 ft across the street it is not a substantial detriment across the street there's 500t from me my from you I agree right so I'm also a part of that area agreed why do I matter less than other people you don't matter less you just matter differently that's all right okay so I'm just saying why aren't we adhering to what the the the the frontage requirements or the the width requirements are we we are we we believe this is a better planning alternative than building a new Street and having additional we already have a street disturbance we have a street that accesses all that property back there too well the testimony that was provided was an alternative um C plan would have included a new roadway and different development and we believe that what we're proposing tonight is a better um plan understand it's probably like the least best alternative too but we have a street that goes to that property it connects all the way back through there so why are we trying to Cluster six houses and apply for variances when four houses up there might do and then two houses in the back if that's really what you're going for again the testimony we provide is that this plan we believe is the best plan and then all of that property that you're talking about is apparently listed as a critical habitat emergent grassland forest and forested Wetland is there any plan for that the there wetlands and habitat area within that lot that whole area that you're proposing to build on is on this map marked as that which map are you referring to uh one of the these township maps I printed out when I was looking through it it's a conservation plan map so there are areas on the property which were were identified the the by pands for preservation is for for Habitat there are areas are wetlands and transition areas which are shown on the pl so those are all those will be restricted so no development is proposed in any of those areas that's the whole property that you're looking at that's my concern so I'm not sure what that map is um it's on the website um those are my concerns I've just you know from an environmental standpoint I feel like the land's already been clearcut and the back there and it just seems kind of convenient that we can go and clearcut the rest of it after so right now so so this may make it easier so so what happens is that there's there's something called Outside Agency approvals so one of them um well two of them D and then Pine lands so uh what you may be looking at is a pine lands conservation map um so whenever they have to cut anything down they have to get approval by Pine lands to make sure that what they're cutting into is not in that Conservation area so I wouldn't say like you know we're the ultimate Arbiter I would say that Pine lands kind of is the ultimate Arbiter of of where you can um cut into uh into into the tree areas how much buffer is required so they they are kind of like the ultimate Authority in determining um what these guys can and can't do so so what what you're looking at maybe a conservation um easement map um and and they would have already have had to either get approval from pin lands in order to bring an application like this or they're waiting on the approval from the pine lands the approval from 2000 the 24y old approval right so if is that the one that as part of that approval the original approval there were areas that were dedicated as um Wildlife as habitat preservation is not in its development it's the area deeper and farther to the um to the West there is an area that was identified by pands as as as um habitat and it's being preserved gotcha and and you guys under oath certify that you're comporting with all the conservation requirements that Pinelands are are requesting of you yes and as no will this will need to go back to Pinelands should it get approval by board after any plans are finalized for the township professionals we will then need to go back to the pilins and get a final sign off from them as well yeah we're we're not the last word on these things there are uh County agencies and state agencies that they will have to get approval for if we would approve a project like this that sounds like fun don't en I say I I don't envy them going back to the pands they're kind of tough to deal with but the gentlemen are right that if that was approved here tonight and they have to reapply to the pilins and if they get a letter of concern from the pons they'd have to come back in front of us yeah if the letter says no concern you're okay with it it's okay the final fact you get notated notified so what's going to happen is that the pine Lan basically comes back and says don't like this no go then they basically have to redo their entire application come back and and takeing yeah Reen notice the whole area and take and take into consideration whatever pin's concerns are okay so it's kind of a checks and balancing system at least when it comes down to the conservation areas I just want it to be done you know right no no that that's I'm just it's easier if I just explain this some sometimes yeah okay that's perfect thank you yeah thank you thank you anyone else come forward to ask questions all right please raise your right hand do you swear or affirm to tell the truth the whole truth nothing but the truth I do all right please state your name and spell your last of the record my name is George Lindy last name is l i n d I live at 526 gets Lane thank you U one of the questions I have is that retention pond in the far top left corner is that right next next to my driveway that is along the edge of the property that is the very very edge is a telephone pole right there correct have to look at the plans to to to because making the turn is already kind of tough making that turn with that retention P there might be worse is there a way it could be moved to the other side maybe we can take a look there is the the the retention p is entirely on within the property so it is not without within the the RightWay or any adjacent property it's with Hally within the property we can review if there's any way to shift that slightly um but um we need to take a take a look at that because there are spacing requirements between various no facilities but we can see if we as see as much as we can to see if we can ship that yeah because my worry is one the other worry is if that retention Pond overflows my driveway is flooded and I can't get out right so that is is that that we'll be reviewing with engineer all these are designed to to infiltrate and and or also designed we do modeling calculations show what happens where to overflow where where it go and to make sure that that's not going to cause an impact yeah and and just to keep maybe put your mind at ease a little bit this is rather deceptive because it's kind of a large plan yeah so that has to meet all the setback requirements and everything like that so it's not it's not in the roadway or anything like that there's still a setback requirement for that okay um but if the applicant's willing to work with you as a as a property owner that make me feel a little bit better because I worry about the flooding the map's a little is a little deceptive because it's it's a big map and it's hard to tell from here so yeah but that whole link right along that that's my driveway going into my house well and that may actually improve the water situation at that end because because it is based upon the new standards yeah well I'm we're worried about because right now there's a lot of woods that are still there what's left of woods and it's it's soaking up whatever water we can once those woods are gone and there's grass there how much is going to be you know retained by the I'm what I'm worried about let him answer that yeah as these are this stor design was designed per the current NDP standards which requires us to manage for what they call a 100-year storm which is a storm that has a what statistically one in 100 year one in 100% ch a 1% chance of occurring in any year and they're also basing that on their projected rainfall for the year 2100 where they're forecasting you know an increase of rainfall based on climate change so these are designed based on those much much larger rainfalls so that's what's contributed to the size of these basins they're not designed for now today's storms they're designed for the future predicted 100-year storm events that's yeah that's kind of I was worried about because Sandy was a bugger um the other thing you worry about we talked about the retention that the um the drainage along the road um is there any plans to to because it looks like it's going to literally stop at my driveway um is there anything to make sure that we we don't have problems getting on and off the our dirt road to that so that we discussed that previously then we we will make sure that know the're that interface between the proposed Drive proposed Road improved pave Road and existing driveways and and existing you know marginally approved Road improved Road will be coordinated with the township to make sure that everyone that that that is designed properly okay and these are two story houses that are yet to be developed it depends on the person buying the lot you said correct so there would be two stories there would be setback what 50 feet from the road they'll comply with with with all the setback requirements we're not asking any for any setback variances so the the footprint may change slightly but they'll still conform with with with the all setback requirements or they'll need to come back to the board for variants okay right yeah because my worry is it's the house looks like it's very close to the my driveway as well so I'll be driving down the driveway waking them up when my horses at 3 o'clock in the morning and they'll be really upset that I'm you know hearing horses wondering in a truck going down the road so is there scale be deceiving buff the sounds and stuff it it can be deceiving the scale because it is you know large area pulling up on the pl yeah i' I've walked that proper I'm there every day matter of fact I just blew all the leaves a few minutes ago um all right the questions you asked the question the question was answered okay I'd like to move on if anyone else has any questions unless you have any others sir um now the only other question I have is do we have any more time in the future to be able if we have additional questions to be able to ask them a after we're finished with the direct questions then we will have an open uh questions or comments okay that's not what I'm I meant I'm sorry right I think you meant after so what what you can do is if if you there's two things you can do right uh number one um you can reach out directly to the applicant to to you know open up a dialogue with them express your concerns sure afterwards because they still have to go through res resolution compliance and the whole nine yards right so um and Pine lands and there's a lot more to it this is kind of just the beginning phase of it right A lot of people think it's the Final Phase is actually the opening stages of it um alternatively uh if they're in the process of of um building the road you can coordinate with the township engineer to make sure that all your concerns are are being heard right so um so think of it kind of as as just opening a dialogue between the parties that are involved in this to make sure that that that all your concerns are being addressed okay yeah the reason why I'm asking is because we uh we were on vacation we came back and I had three days notice to find out about this I had no idea this was going to happen until till Saturday it's a 10-day notice standard so you probably got it in the mail and you got back from vacation yeah um but they've had much longer than 10 days so well the statutory requirements 10 10 days notice right um so um what what you can do is that these documents are also public documents as well so if you have any concerns six months from now you can either open request them or or contact the township and see where they're at within the process you know so so it it's not there's no um there's no secret to it it's just opening a dialogue between the parties that you need I was just afraid that this was like okay and and how do we get that information and where would I go yeah you just call up the Township Clerk um and and whatever questions you have you can ask her and she'll coordinate with you and and you can also look look at plans on the website they're there they're posted so you can look at them anytime okay great thank you all right thank you you got it anyone else like to ask any specific questions of these two gentlemen you got them I've got the one of the same questions excuse meent we have a process ex do you swear or affirm to tell the truth the whole truth nothing but the truth yes I do all right please state your name and spell your last of the record Robert for last name f o r l n Za and your address address 316 Toms River Road now my wife's and my and I uh my prop our property say is at the northeast corner of this plan we're currently look at looking at the square there they're showing just off of it now we're a little farther back and basically that it's called an infiltration Pond apparently I we're not even sure what that is first of all this seems very unorthodox to me this sort of a development we don't even I don't know if there's any other developments like this in Jackson I I don't know if you folks might know that the answer to that but there are quite a few sir there are with with the with the now now known as infiltration Bas ask questions of the engineer pleas now I was in the engineering field for a long time with Lance but I've been retired for 25 years I've never heard of an infiltration di facing now I've researched a little bit there's something there's there are some things involved with that correct some maintenance um apparently it's it's these are infiltration bases are due on due to the requirements of the uh Pinelands commission is that correct it's Township pin lands know NJ DP infiltration Bas as well okay I just I just I I don't I if it's going to happen it's fine but I just want to note that if we're going to have if this is going to be some sort of an eyesore looking or we have going to have some sort of overflow perhaps yes you know would would there ever be some sort of situation where we would have an overflow of these basins so basins against infiltration Basin these are designed to manage the flow for these various storm events two 10 100 Year storm events again we're predicting we're designed for these future storm events so these are you know most situations will'll have almost the as noted earlier this site is vacant it's mainly wooded and grass there very little runoff now so we have to design this to maintain those existing conditions and actually reduce it so there is very little runoff under standard condition from these fair enough so my question to you then are there any other developments with infiltration ponds between each individual acre lot in this Township do we have anything like this anybody know I I think I think we're kind of getting hang on calm down all right first off uh I'm the environmental chairman for the town it's just a simple question really is there one other development hear me out and be patient okay yes this is the upand cominging thing it's been going on for a while um off of Hope Chapel Road there's a few culd of sacks where each and every house has them between the houses these are uh from my understanding and my eyesight they're behind the houses they're they're depressed yeah they're usually Mr P three three four feet they're not really egregious okay in my opinion they're not egregious except when they're between houses uh they cause fencing problems but this is a standard that has been in place I've been sitting on this board I think five years okay um you're going to see uh pervious pavement it's being done in Mammoth County on major roads kosi Road for example by the Ruckers facility that whole thing is poorest pavment so these are all things that are now standards and to to Mr P's defense not to testify to him for him whatever they're going to do they have to take it one step less as far as the impact and they're there and to answer everyone else's question real quick you have a development lot in my opinion I'll call the 5 acre lot your anchor he's consolidating all his anchor lots and deed restricting them so nothing can happen to them and then it's governed by pands and yes with pands you have to ask permission if you like to use your own land I'm very they they are the toughest Authority in the state well this wouldn't happened 40 years ago but I I agree you could you could have made it a dirt track if you want to but today is today and piland is going to be control of that property yeah very good you know okay that's thank you and one more question please and now is this a question to the concerning the same engineer or to the engineer I'm sorry there will be an now I don't see it here all of a sudden now I've seen the plans in the last 24 years it have been done we had a cattle farm going in what was it two years ago we're going to have a cattle farm I don't know if you folks are aware that but that apparently what was that that that story is a whole story itself I guess but we saw the plans for it and never were approved the there's a 15 foot easan that runs to the southernly to the south of the Northerly line here it runs right by my property it's the first it would be lot it's referred as lot one on some uh plans like n like 901 I believe on others I just wonder if that that ean's still in there what the specific use of that easan is sure which so which property are you talking about I can see the far line the Northerly line extreme nor line go to the Northeast Northeast that northeast corner lot they call it lot one I believe or lot 901 I can point to it hundreds and was valid and this came to be so we lost about 100 feet 100t by 400 I think so I just wanted to know now if that easement is still existing is drainage there is a a survey there's a 20 foot wide drainage easement along that there's a 20 foot wide drainage easement there you go that's going to continue on I guess that's a county that's a count dedicated to the to it's existing easement we cannot remove it that that's that's going to remain yeah that's that's a title issue the board has no control over um so they that sir sir excuse me you have to speak into the microphone because it's being recorded and the public wants to hear okay so just that's a county easement it's been there it's been existing so I was just wondering where the fence was going to run there the property the property owners can run it to the to the line I guess yes I'm not sure you're aware of that it is a title I'll leave it at that okay thank you very much folks thank you I can answer better okay anyone else like to come forward to ask questions of this uh these gentlemen seeing no one come forward I move to close the public cross examination second all in favor I opposed all right now would anyone like to come forward and just make comments about this particular project anything that may not have been answered to your satisfaction seeing no one come forward I move to close the public comment portion of this application second all in favor I thank you our um professionals have any comments at this time any questions from the board at this time would you like to make a closing statement Mr alfair uh yes Madam chair uh so you you've heard the testimony from Mr pooi and U Mr tyina we would request that the board approve the application um as presented with the variants for Le as requested Mr Shay anything I just like to bring this up to the board so uh this is a simple subdivision uh six Lots uh the only variances are for lot width and lot Frontage these are uh considered C2 variances by both the board's appli by both the applicant board's professionals um the advances that they they have put on the record uh to advance is Preservation of the environment through deed restrictions open space through property conservation that's e and G of the the mlu uh statute pertaining to the same um they're looking to protect the neighborhood scheme based upon how they're constructing the development uh they've indicated that they have appropriate storm water management plans um as to the negative criteria they don't believe they have any and that they advaned the master plan through open space preservation and transitioning development so that is the legal test for the C2 that is what they've testified to I'll leave it up to the board to determine whether they've comported with it or not any comments from the board any motion I'd like to make a motion uh to approve this application with the greed uh um to uh stipulation along with the approval of the variance variances requested second motion we'll have a roll call vote Please Mr Brey yeah before I vote I want to just mention that our professionals their professionals all agree that the requirements of the C2 are met uh and we're at the final egg of this because they still got a deal with the pilins and with all the conditions upon them I vote Yes Mr heler yes Mr breker yes M Rose yes Mr Tremor yes Mr weart yes Mr wall yes Mr Sullivan yes Dr Campbell yes congratulations thank you thank you madam chair members of the board for the next um uh application we'll take a 10minute break please thank you e e e e e e e e e e e e e e e e e e e e e e e e e e I've asked Mr McFarland to have his staff check the calculations for impervious coverage for us um as Mr CLE indicated I think this is when you turn over to the the applicant the things that are important is that this is a warehousing facility that does not appear to have the ability to have large Vehicles circulate throughout it so I think testimony regarding the statement of operations um the hours of operation the types of tenants and the types of vehicles that are expected to um visit the site would be important for the board to hear given the size and layout of the application thank you now here we go M McFarland because we don't know who you are we've never seen you before you swear or affirm to tell the truth the whole truth nothing but the truth I do all right please state your name spell your last of the record sure it's Graham McFarland ma a f a r l n e professional engineer professional planner certified minus engineer previously qualified and testified before this board of you're going to be testifying as both a planner and engineer correct okay and the board accepts the credentials absolutely thank welcome thank you um yes the application tonight is uh is is pretty straightforward you can see we have put A1 up on the screen which is an aerial showing the subject property identified as block 21101 Lots uh 31 32 and 30 and33 highlighted in I guess that's an orange yellow yellow color uh the property has Frontage on Jackson Mills Road uh the intersection with County Line Road where that Jug Handle is you know what we used to call the old S curve s-curve back back in the day before they improved it uh would be just off the just off the page there the soccer complex is uh is just just across just across the street uh Anthony go to A2 please A2 is the uh the site plan that was submitted to the board in support of of the application uh this is the plan that was submitted uh just a couple weeks ago revised October 8th um we had added some additional parking spaces for building number two to comply with ordinance requirements when we when we made the initial submission we did not have final confirmation from the architect on a square footage of the space that was proposed we're able to get that uh get that clarified so the application is proposing a uh a total uh gross floor area of 28,650 square ft broken up between the uh between the two buildings we we have a total of 24435 warehouse and 4215 squ ft of office space when we put those numbers into the uh into the calculators and run through the math we get a requirement of 53 parking spaces uh required by ordinance and this plan has a total of 53 parking spaces proposed which does include a couple of EV spaces so we we got the bonus credit for the for the EB spaces but the plan does comply with the with the uh parking requirements you can see that access to the site is from one bifurcated uh driveway with direct access to uh to to Jackson Mills Road uh building number one is divided into five spaces building number two is divided into 10 10 and spaces relatively small spaces uh the site is not designed to accommodate tractor trailers uh we would not have any of any tenants that would have a need for tractor trailer deliveries um we would an anticipate you know box truck Tru uh small Panel trucks and things like that for these these type and size of size of of spaces uh the property has a uh A detention Basin in the front we do not have public server so we have a septic system also in in the front part of the uh of the property Jackson Mills Road will be improved to uh to 23 feet wide with curb in accordance with County requirements and that shows on the plan right now this this shaded area here is the widening of Jackson Mills Road with the taper back to meet the existing pavement on on both ends of the uh of the project trash enclosure refu enclosure in the back of the property so that's screened and far from uh Far From Any uh Far From Any Public public view uh there is public water available for the uh for the project so that will provide our domestic and fire service this application uh does not have any variances so it is fully compliant with ordinance requirements um we currently do not show sidewalk along Jackson Mills Road uh of course that would be up to up to the board how they how they feel about sidewalk or whether they want the uh the contribution to the to The Pedestrian safety fund we do have one design waiver requested for the uh for the application uh this property you can see the um the Bold lines are the uh are the Zone boundaries and you can see right here is a distinction between a residential Zone and open space Zone uh your ordinance does require buffering to this residential Zone uh based upon the size of the building the ordinance does require so would would require a 25 foot buffer we extend this line across ordinance would require a 25 foot buffer on this small piece of the property you can also see the required site triangle in accordance with Ocean County um planning board requirements there's a very small portion of the property right where I'm trying to point a Hold Steady that would technically be subject to the 25 foot buffer requirement however what we have proposed on this application is instead of 25 we're proposing that buffer to be 10 ft wide at the front of the property because it is such a such a small area um Anthony could you go to A5 for me real quick while we're we're talking about this this one item A5 should be the landscape plan uh and maybe zoom in down here from you a little bit so what we've done on with this application again you can see the intersection of the site triangle we're proposing a 10ft wide buffer here in front of the property we've also added an additional row of landscaping uh between the curb line and and the septic field you can also see that the building is going to be set back uh 93 ft from from the RightWay line where 60 ft is required by ordinance uh the parking is set back 50 ft from the RightWay line where 20 ft is is uh required by or and also this is a part of the uh part of the building this would be you know the front part of the building where there's no act no activity taking place in a front part of this building so in my opinion uh providing that 10- foot that 10-ft buffer uh along the front with the additional row of landscaping uh given that we have the the curb line for the parking and the building set so far back I I believe that that waiver is uh consistent with the intent of the ordinance and that the board could uh could Grant relief to to uh to that to that requirement uh going to the review letters from the professionals we have a letter from uh Mr CLE dated September 30th where he summarizes uh the project he uh identifies the the required and provided uh Zone requirements uh confirms our opinion that there are no vars required to plan is fully compliant with ordinance requirements uh he does have uh he he had question the the parking that was provided on the original plan but again we have since rectified that 53 required 53 proposed um I talked about a sidewalk along Jackson Mills Road the board's going to have to make a decision on that of course he comments on the uh the soil fill and removal ordinance that is in effect and then he does have uh some other technical comments that we would agree to comply with uh our sign does comply with ordinance requirements so we are not asking for any uh waiver or variance on the on the signage that is proposed then we have a letter from Mr Peters dated October 31st where he uh summarizes building one and building two and just confirms the footages uh required for each of those buildings think we've got that clarified now he also tabulates the Zone requirements and indicating that we comply with our requirements he just wants uh I guess a little more detail on the impervious cover calculation which we will provide uh as to hours of operation I think we would we would offer um seven to S to seven Monday to Saturday as the standard hours of operation unless there was any objection to uh to that for for some reason um Mr Peters of course discusses the parking and confirms 53 and 53 uh your ordinance does technically require uh loading spaces of 12T by 35 ft and and I guess just just to be safe we would request a design waiver from that particular requirement although this property is basically a series of of loading zones to service the um the multi-tenant multi-tenant building but technically I I would say we we might require a waiver uh Mr Peter also questions whether there is a need to provide buffering uh to the properties that are um to the left side and right side of the particular project as they are residential uses they but they are not residential zones they're within the highway commercial zone so your ordinance does not require any buffering along along the side property lines again it does require buffering at that front corner and technically does require buffering at the rear of the lot as a residential Zone does AD join a property behind U at its rear and we do have that buffer uh provided and then he does have some technical comments um Landscaping notes and whatnot that we would agree to comply with uh this plan was submitted to the Bureau of fire prevention and we did have an approval from them from uh February of last year uh again they're at their letter to say your application for the project has been approved by this office indicating compliance with any any comments or concern conc of the of the fire Bureau uh that is all I have for now but Anthony let's just go to A3 and A4 real quick and then I think I'll be done with my direct uh so a A3 is a is the floor plan for for one of the buildings and you can just see the the typical arrangement of the units with with uh the warehouse space office and a bathroom and and uh you know o overhead door and parking spaces uh for each for each unit and then Anthony A4 please and A4 is just a uh elevations of the of of the building showing um what's anticipated to be the architectural treatment for the building uh Building height is only 20 feet where 35 ft is required so well within uh the height requirements of of the Zone thank you what uh what size vehicles are you expecting well they're not going they're not going to be tractor trailers a site is not is not designed for that so they would mostly be box trucks um cargo vans small uh steak body trucks things like things like that that could that could be utilized and will be accommodated by this site yeah applic willing to stipulate to that correct yeah I have a question Mr brzy yeah I have a couple small you said you had public water there I'm sorry did you say you had public water there yes we do are you putting in a sprinkler system I believe uh sprinkers will be required by code for these buildings yes the other thing is you mentioned EV parking where do you have your EV uh Anthony if you can go to 82 right now we have the EV parking SP face is shown up here in the front thank you the only other question I have did you review the lighting plan yes I don't I don't have a uh an exhibit of the lighting plan but we did submit lighting plan with the application and we do have a uh series of pole mounted lights around the perimeter of the uh of the site and and some building mounted lights as well uh Mr Clay of course identifies uh the need or the recommendation for uh shielding to protect any uh spillage onto a joining properties will agree to comply with that comment Mr rker is there any proposed fencing between the housing on the left and the housing on the right agreed that they are in the same Zone uh but how do we protect those those houses we we do not have fencing proposed right now but I'm sure if the board would wanted to recommend fencing uh I could convince my client to install it so recommended understood anyone else up here I have a question we would uh six foot vinyl privacy fence sounds good thank you Mr Right uh Tremor each one of these each one of these units does it have a bathroom in the sink there is a bathroom and sync for each unit correct and do you know what size that septic field is uh what we have shown on this plan is uh oversized based upon our preliminary design uh we haven't applied to us count Health Department for that permit yet but there's there's plenty of runds planned for the disposal field does Ocean County Health Department actually have an engineer who checks the math uh they they have a staff that reviews the applications for the septic correct staff that reviews it but they don't have an engineer that checks the map don't I don't believe they have an engineer on air staff so we're going on the assumption that what you're doing is correct because our people are assuming that what you're doing is corre correct but this is equal to a 14b house and you're putting what looks to me like a ,000 foot Fielding it's been a big concern to me I've done my homework now and there's no engineer checking it when it goes here so I have grave concerns of what this board has been approving because it's not proper that's 14 toilets sinks and whatever it's going to be going into a field that's the same size as a five to six bedroom house okay I'd really like to see how we can get together and start checking this properly because it's not being done properly Mr Tremor so so here here's we're bumping into an issue here because I think and Mr CLE correct me if I'm wrong but I believe that they they calculate the size of the system based upon how many bedrooms or toilets or bathrooms and I think it's bedrooms correct um for residential development number of bedrooms for this it be square footage okay all right so so it's based upon the square footage of the building yes right um so so does that help you out because it's a different no because everybody's going with this whole flow thing and it's more than flow it's square footage and it's usage I I can I can run through it if you want me to uh want me to real quick for for units such as this for uh for commercial space um and off a a buildings like this have an office component and they have a Ware a warehouse component the office component .125 gallons per day per per square foot these offices are 4,000 square feet that's a very that's a very very low number the warehouse component is um 15 gallons per day per per employee for each uh for each of the warehouse spaces for a build for buildings of this size uh the flow is probably going to be a th000 gallons per day okay that's basically similar to a single family house so it's not the number of bathrooms that drives the size of the disposal field it's a type of use and the and the area you know the square foot devoted to that use and on buildings like this it's a much much lower demand than a single family house there's nobody doing laundry there's nobody you know running running dishwashers in here you don't have three four or five kids taking you know three showers a day when they're in High School playing sports and coming home and doing this and doing that and doing the other and and doing whatnot so so the flow generated by these buildings is much much much lower than the flow that's generated by single family houses and it's not the number of Plumbing fixtures uh that matters it's the it's the footage of the use and the type of use and this plan will comply fully with Ocean County Health Department and the new jerse New Jersey septic code 7 colon 9A and that's what it is obligated to do we we prepare the application and the design we submit it to oan County Health Department we've done thousands of them in my office over the years uh we fully understand the requirements and this plan will comply with those perance M yes Mr President and either lawyer correct me I'm way off on left field here uh no matter what we think and the formula you put forward the final decisions of the Department of Health and other agencies correct correct wrong there was no engineer checking it at Ocean County I have the floor please if you're are submitting them numbers falsely Whose license is at stake that'd be mine that's what I thought so unless you're really looking to lose your license you wouldn't be lying to them I'm not interested in that and they check these regularly correct then there's always the argument about commercial property and warehouses the amount of flow and there's nowhere that of there house everybody knows that everybody knows that we get into these back and forth where we don't have any saying it anyway and because we may not like the system because how they check it and they're going by the numbers and stuff the one held liable for this is you and your testimony that's you go to court you have the license you'd be the one the judge would be listening to not us I just think we should make that clear that that's the agency and that's what we have to live with and Mr Shay has made that evident on board many times now and Badge of this just in front of the public to make it sound like something that we can stop we can't I'm not looking to stop it it's worked and I understand the Department of Health has their people don't know their titles and check it they're going by your numbers and your license thank you thank you Mr TR so you're going by how many people per office what's the normal scale on that well again it's not it's not the how many people per office it's the area of the office and it's the area of the warehouse and for the warehouse space uh what the septic code tells you is you can design for the number of people that are going to be you know working in that warehouse space and for small spaces like this it's generally one person per space uh for small space like this is not you don't typically have you know six eight or 10 people that are working in in these spaces every day fulltime you may have one of these shops where you have two or three people working working in there but the other ones you're not going to have anybody who's in the shop all day long so the code does anticipate that it allows us to take that into consideration develop the design submit it to the health department and get the permit on the bare minimum standard I didn't say that bare minimum I'm meeting the on on meeting the requirements on meeting the statutory requirements right which is a bare minimum me meeting the statutory requirements you you like to phrase it a different way than I do no M Mr Bry made it clear that they don't care so gentlemen gentlemen this is unnecessary all right let's stick to the application let stick to the application application only I don't I don't need we don't care Mr let's just do the application Mr chair do your job all right all right all done all done all done all done so let me just preface it with this as much as we go over this all the time this aspect of land use is out of our control we have Mr Clee who does the calculations it's it's based upon statutory standards and actual specific types and formulations of calculations it's given to him it's given to him by another engineer Mr CLE verifies it that is the standard that standard is then verified Again by the county and the state so so as much as we would like to have a third party or or somebody with an additional certification sign off on that there there just isn't anything like that not at the board level the county level at the state level it's a little bit different so I I understand you you want to a heightened heightened sense of scrutiny Mr Tremor but it's it goes to practicality of there's there's nothing the board can do outside of Mr C's review of this thing that that we can we can Implement right so so that that's what that's why the county and the state has jurisdiction over these issues I don't I don't question Mr C I trust Mr CLE I know he knows his his business I know Mr McFarland knows his business too my problem is to be minimums right as a board we are allowed to ask for better y our job is to do better not the not the same old way we've always done it things are changing everything is there's a lot of difference now that we're building more the ground doesn't take more as a professional septic installer I did for five and a half years I understand the way it works unlike other people out there in the world so when I question it it's because I've dealt with Ocean County I've dealt with Engineers mistakes are made I've been to many jobs where it's not that old yeah we did it to bare minimum we did not expect this many people in the building so in my eyes it's my job to request and try and point out we can make it better that's what I'm trying to do that's my job understood and that's it I don't question Mr CLE I don't question his credentials I know who he is I know what he does he's very good at his job my job here as a volunteer who's here for free to raise questions maybe stir the pot a little bit and get him to get his people to do a little bit more and it's better for us it's better for the town that's it understood and I apologize if I offended you in any way it's not meant that way I have a question man Mr mcfallen didn't you say you exceed some of the uh numbers for the subject I said that what we have shown on a plan right now I'm sure that it's oversized thank you okay any other questions moving board moving on thank you what else we got we have our traffic another one we should just get caught again I don't think you've seen him before I think we need the credentials all right you swear or affirm to tell the truth the whole truth nothing but the truth yes I do Scott Kennel k n NE L with MCD and Ray Associates located at 1431 Lakewood Road do we accept his Cals welcome Mr kennel thank you uh my officer prepared a traffic study dated uh February 29 2024 and as part of that we conducted traffic counts on Jackson Mills Road at County Line Road in November on November 30th 2023 and consistent with the peak periods we did the traffic Counts from 7: to 10: a.m. and 3: to 6:00 p.m. basically the two-way traffic volumes along the site Frontage is is approximately 824 Vehicles two-way in the morning peak hour and 1,200 in the afternoon peak hour uh traffic projections were prepared based on the data published by The Institute of Transportation engineers and we projected approximately 35 peak hour trips based on the uh use and the size of the buildings the um then it was necessary to consider how traffic would be assigned to this property onto the area roadways and given the fact that 195 is just to the north of this property we considered 65% of the traffic would be oriented to and from the north and 35% to and from the south uh consistent with the Ocean County protocol we analy to have a design year of 2034 and we utilize the New Jersey Department transportation growth rates as well as considered sight specific traffic from three other uh recently approved Warehouse developments along County Line Road and in total those developments equal approximately 650,000 Square ft so that that site traffic was considered in our analysis and then we search charge the site traffic and analyze the site driveway and our report indicates that the morning peak hour the site driver operate a level service C or approximately 16 seconds of delay for vehicles exiting the site and a level service D or 26 seconds of delay uh per vehicle well within the exceptable ranges um that are um considered by Ocean County engineering department uh Graham spoke about the site layout that the site layout and there was even a turning template for a a a fire vehicle that they can navig navigate throughout the site and that the site can accommodate uh box trucks um and Panel trucks that would be servicing this site the site driveway uh has been designed at a location that we have in excess of 600 ft of sight distance in either direction where 500 ft is required So based on the design uh the available sight distance it is um my opinion that the site driveway can operate safely and efficiently uh that basically concludes my testimony any questions from the board from the sure I'll throw one out I'll okay Mr kennel do you believe the site is designed is the best it can be traffic to accommodate the design Vehicles planned for this site yes thank you Mr Peters thank you madam chair Mr kennel are you familiar with the Jackson Township Police Department memo dated February 27th of this year I am not if you could just address Traffic Safety comments quickly for the board so we have a record that we responded to their comments well as Mr McFarland testified the um along the S Frontage we're providing uh 23 ft from Center Line to provide an additional shoulder consistent with the county master plan uh one other comment he raises is regarding the uh driveway to the soccer fields we are offset but in the traffic industry it's considered a positive offset another words left southbound left turn Vehicles into the site will not be in conflict with left turning Vehicles turning left from heading Northbound so it's considered a positive offset um and I don't expect there be many cross trffic movements therefore it's not important or relative to have this aligned with that driveway so in my opinion based on the nature of the uh the proposed the use of the driveway for the soccer fields that this is an appropriate design thank you could you um just remind the board who has jurisdiction over the design standards and access Ocean County engineering department thank you that's all I have Madam chair anyone here would like to uh ask any questions of these two gentlemen seeing no members of the general public make a motion to close cross-examination of the professionals second that Sullivan all in favor I anyone who would like to make any general comments concerning this application seeing no one come forward I move the close the public uh portion of the application second frer any additional questions from this board any additional comments from the uh planning or engineering would you like to make a closing Mr alfery uh as as uh as both of my professionals stated this is a uh fully conforming lot we've requested a few waivers we request that the board Grant the approval preliminary and final site uh site plan major site plan um with those requested uh waivers and Mr Shay this is as clean as it gets guys so if you want to make a motion uh there's no variances uh believe just one waiver which is based on the reasonable um person standard and take it away i' like to make a motion I'll second solivan he's not finished oh sorry sorry go ahead yeah I like to make a motion as a person who don't care that's out of this board for over 40 years um according to the licenses that testified that they meet the requirements between the applicant professionals and our professionals between what our attorney said about it being comping and further testimony that they actually exceed the septic and that license is at stake and the other comments on a septic doesn't have their license to F I make a motion to approve I second the motion Sullivan we'll have a Mr Brey yes Mr Heller yes Mr Riker yes M Rose yes Mr chmer yes Mr weart yes Mr wall yes Mr Sullivan yes Dr Campell yes congratulations thank you madam chair members of the board we do appreciate your time tonight uh I make a motion to close the meeting Soloman second rker all in favor I anybody oppose