##VIDEO ID:l4g-BY8aCbQ## e e e e e e e e e e e e e e e e Al to the of the United States of America and to the Republic for which it stands one nation under God indivisible with liberty and justice for all make a motion for hold down they took mine off com okay all right everybody Welcome to the Jackson Township planning board January 27th meeting this meeting is being conducted with the open public meetings act uh all the uh all the notices have been put in the appropriate fors and places therefore comply with the opma and I will put it off to the chairwoman all right good evening big crowd I love big crowds it means that that won't be too long a meeting all right let's have a roll call please Mr Bernstein here Mr marzo here Mr heler here Mr Riker here Mr Rogers here Mr Tremor here Miss Rose here Mr weard M Mr wall here Mr Sullivan here Dr Campbell here and uh I'll take a motion for payment of voucher for the recording secretary please uh let's do a roll call please Mr Bernstein yes Mr marzo yes Mr heler yes Mr rker yes Mr Rogers yes Mr treamer yes Mr wall yes Mr Sullivan yes Dr Campbell yes thank you um approval of the minutes for uh January 13th reorganization meeting please motion Bernstein second heler we need a roll call on that please Mr Bernstein yes Mr marzo yes Mr heler yes Mr rker yes Mr Rogers yes Mr tramer yes Mr wall yes Mr Sullivan yes and Dr Campbell yes uh we have four resolutions and um Miss Morrison if you'd uh read those for us please planning board resolution 2025-the AA Shore block 7309 lot 7 eligible to vote are Mr Maro Mr heler Mr rker Miss Rose Mr Sullivan and Dr Campbell we'll uh have a motion please motion heler second demarzo Mr marzo yes Mr heler yes Mr rker yes Miss Rose yes Mr Sullivan yes Dr Campbell yes resolution 202-02 resolution of the planning board of the township of Jackson County of ocean state of New Jersey confirming the election of officers appointment of professionals selection of personnel the appointment of the board's recording secretary and setting the 2025 meeting dates all regular members are eligible to vote take a motion please motion berste second dearo okay Mr Bernstein yes Mr marzel yes Mr heler yes Mr Riker yes Mr Rogers yes Mr treamer yes Mr wall yes Mr Sullivan yes and Dr Campbell yes resolution 2025-the planning board of the township of Jackson County of ocean state of New Jersey granting preliminary and final major subdivision and preliminary and final major site plan approval with bulk and planning variances and design waivers for four private religious schools for 349 Chandler Holdings LLC block 801 Lots 62 and 63 eligible to vote are Mr marzo Mr heler Mr trer Mr Sullivan and Dr Campbell motion please motion to approve demarzo second heler Mr marzel yes Mr Herer yes Mr treamer yes Mr Sullivan yes and Dr Camp yes and the last last one is resolution 20 25-4 resolution of the planning board of the township of Jackson County of ocean state of New Jersey granting preliminary and final major site plan approval with design waivers for the construction of two one-story multi-use buildings for contractors offices and warehouses for Jackson Land one Ventures LLC block 2101 Lots 31 32 and 33 eligible to vote are Mr heler Mr reker Mr tramer Miss Rose Mr weart Mr wall Mr Sullivan and Dr Campbell motion please motion heler second treamer Mr heler yes Mr rker yes Mr treamer yes Miss Rose yes Mr w art yes Mr wall yes Mr Sullivan yes and Dr Campbell yes we have H one agenda change block 4301 lot 20 MOA blumats carried from February 10th to March 24th with notice required we'll have a motion on that please motion we can do an all in favor on that one anyone opposed motion passes um the master plan um my Nemesis for the last year is uh postponed uh be we're awaiting the uh revised land use section due to the um States required affordable housing portion being re-examined so we've had to put that off and uh we are awaiting council's um changes so that we can continue to move forward on that another uh piece of uh board matter for discussion is some uh signage issues I'm sure all of you who live in town are constantly getting people bumping into you at the grocery store or calling or uh just saying to you what's being built on the corner of so and so and such and such and I know the uh Laura says that that their offices get constant phone calls what asking what's being built on this corner a number of other towns have instituted um signage that will last from um the clearing of the property through a CO and I've made some uh just take a look at these examples and I spoke to Mr paoro today you just pass this down if you just take a look so at this point we're going to request that in the master plan however in the meantime we can ask an applicant to provide this type of signage we'll give them an idea of the size they can put on it what they'd like to put on it as long as it has coming soon a color rendering what type of project it is homes Town Homes mixed residential Apartments warehouses office building restaurant retail store no advertising or phone number is required the project date of anticipated completion posted from property clearing until Co is issued and removed immediately after the project is complete I think that will make the residents of Jackson very happy so that they're not wandering and it will make the uh Town Hall people happy so they could also so if we include this in the master plan it may have to go to um Council for an ordinance it may not we have I was going to ask is this something that really needs a master plan or is this something we could pass a a a council we think we can do it from the planning board but I think Council should give us Counsel on that well so there's a number of ways you can do it I mean number one we can make it a condition of approval with you know if we recommend it to the applicant they agree to it as long as they comport with the with the sign ordinances that we currently have and Mr Bora um you know agrees to it um or alternatively the the township could make a sign ordinance and and take it from their so Dr Campbell could you send it over to the council president I shall thank you madam chair I'll bring it to her tomorrow night as a matter yes if I may in my experience uh having been in the trade as a developer I would also add mandatory block and lot number and also put the resolution number on there this way the public can look up that resolution number and find out exactly what is approved what isn't approved and also when it gets to the point the building permit number so that if there's a violation or something you know blowing across the road or G ay they have the proper means to speak with the Township in the proper format rather than waste Laura's time the business administrator who is not involved in construction you know all these places where these calls land inappropriately that's that's a very good idea very good idea so I'll redevelop this would would would we make a motion on just starting this process so that we're all in agreement and if you have any comments as you uh respond I'll make Mo a second I'll second it all right let's uh just go for um through the role and then if somebody has something to say at that time Mr Bernstein yes I support doing this as recommendation to an applicant and then Michelle if Dr Campbell if you could reach out to council president tomorrow by the meeting do that thank you thank you Mr marzo yes Mr heler I would also just like to add to Mr Bernstein if we're doing Council I know this is out of our purview but perhaps even the zoning board for any major subdivisions which the same questions because we get approached also what's that well oh that wasn't our board so may we do that as well okay yes thank you Mr rker yes Mr Rogers yes Mr trimmer yes Mr wall yes Mr Sullivan yes as a recommendation to council and also as uh my colleague um Mr Herer stated that if we could also include the Zoning Board in this Dr Campbell yes thank you everyone um now engineering and planning matters gentlemen anything on your mind thank you okay agenda schedules block like legal matters yes you do have some I I do have one um so the uh Mrs uh chairwoman uh wanted me to kind of give a breakdown as to the classes of members that we have on the board because we've had some shifting around so just kind of give a I'm not going to go into too much detail to save us some time but I'm just going to do a quick overview um starting verse order just to to kind of give everybody a a 40,000 foot perspective of everybody's roles and duties and responsibilities it's not a whole lot um first we have the class four members class four members are just a regular citizens that were appointed to the planning board um and they have kind of the broadest scope of of abilities to be able to to operate with on the board think I said on any subcommittees um the only the only true test that um uh that prevents them from doing something is really just it's called the pain conflict test um four different layers to to conflicts that um they have to abide by typically it's really not even a concern unless something critical comes up which we really haven't even come across yet um not not yet yeah second uh is the alternate members these alternate members we have two of them on the board um and they they have the same they the citizens appointed the board as alternate class fours um what happens in the event of one of the class fours being either ineligible or or abstains or um not being present uh the alternate would step in with all the same duties rights and and responsibilities of the class 4 be able to vote on the application they're also uh subject to the to the pain conflict test um then we have class three class three uh I believe is Mr Bur a he's just the township Council representative um he's subject to the pain uh conflict tests as well as any perceived conflicts that would come down from the council as well uh Class 2 member is uh is Mr wall same situation um he's a representative of the township uh he's just restricted to the to the pain conflict test as well as kind of a a rational Nexus test to anything within the Administration uh and then we have uh Mr rer yeah Mr uh well Mr rker is a class four but he's the environmental representative uh we have the class one uh which is uh Mr Ray and he is um the mayor's representative and he's simply subject to the same thing it's the pain conflict test uh and additionally it's the any it's a rational Nexus between any perceived conflicts that the mayor may have so that that's really the bottom line though all this it's not a whole l lot we don't really deal with a whole lot of nuances when the nuances come up we'll take care of it uh and inspect it at that point in time thank you also uh next meeting is not going to be a regular meeting there are no applicants I guess people just couldn't get their acts together for the first of the year so uh that doesn't mean it's a freebie sorry uh we will be having a workshop that night on uh Rupa religious land use law um I I guess you should be here uh professionals also sorry know freebie off night and I think that will be a wonderful opportunity because the these things are important that we understand them and uh Brett pder will will be here and he's excellent and he's not boring so I think you'll I think you'll enjoy it I've heard him speak before and he's very good so that will be happening next on the I guess this what's our next date the 7th yeah so that will be our next meeting same same time same place nothing Buffet will be served no Buffet will be served no sorry maybe I'll make dessert something okay Mr feffer you're on sorry we had business I did I did I did you voted on it beautiful project so far you like it yes we're looking for that weather we voted on ready take my agenda good to go good evening Adam fefer on behalf of the applicant uh the application this evening before you uh is seeking preliminary and final major site plan approval for construction of an approximately 65,000 foot Warehouse with uh an ancillary approximately 8,500 square foot of mezzanine office space uh the project obviously is is a is a nice rateable for the township um the property is on the corner of Patterson Road and West Commodore Boulevard um I do have this evening three uh Witnesses for you um our engineer planner um our traffic expert and our architect um I am going to start with my engineer just to tee up the application and give you Orient you to the site and then I'm going to uh switch over to traffic as uh Mr kennel has another meeting he has to get to um the application just a little more background is in the LM uh Zone it's uh permitted us as a commercial office light industrial Zone District uh we are seeking a warehouse use um we do have one small uh bulk variance that'll be for a minimum front yard setback um where uh 100t is required and we are proposing uh 94.3 n ft and it's actually only on a portion of the front yard and you'll we'll get to that it's a it's due to the size the um shape of the property uh at this time if I can call Mr pornoy I have him sworn in just Orient you to the site and then we'll call up Mr kennel yeah you think all right please raise your right hand do you swear or affirm to tell the truth the whole truth nothing but the truth I do all right please state your name and spell your last of the record Yosef poroi P RT noi right your credentials licensed professional engineer and professional planner in New Jersey my right in a good understanding I've been before this board um several times yeah and the board accepts a credential yes and you're acting as both planner and engineer yes I am thank you okay good evening um Mr feffer do we want to have the traffic yeah we're just going to have Mr pory just Orient the board to the application really quickly just a quick overview and then we'll have Mr kennel come up sure thank you okay so um as know the the the application is for Block 2603 Lot 27 it's approximately 4.34 Acres at the Northeast e corner of West commoner Boulevard which is County Route 526 that's along the south of property and Patterson Road um along the west side of the property which is a local Road the lot is currently vacant and wooded um it's in the LM commercial office like industrial Zone at the surrounding uses there's an industri use to North there's a fire Warehouse to the east uh vacant lot in the NC Zone um to the South and there is a to the West there's a um Warehouse that's currently under construction um that was previously approved um Patterson Road is a local Road um varying withd pavement there's no curb or sidewalk for the majority of that um West Comer Boulevard is a county road is a County Road um there are Road improvements are are being installed as part of the adjacent project which we'll discuss we'll discuss um we'll discuss in we'll discuss further in more detail can you bring up the proposed site plan um render the rendering there thank you um yeah could bring up this one for now there's one of focus on site plan plan this one does include adjacent warehouse but okay thank you so the applicant proposes to construct a warehouse with a footprint there was um there was as um this appears noted there with some discrepancies with some of the numbers between the the plans and architecture which will be coordinated the architect will testify as well our proposed footprint is 64,66 square foot Warehouse with it 8,250 foot mezzanine it's been designed to be divided into six separate units for six tenants um the I'll just go through the um just the circulation access and this where we could get the we could get the the um traffic engineer on and then I'll continue with the rest of the site plan details the there is a proposed there are two proposed driveways on the pass Road and one proposed driveway onto west commodor um the the site's been designed with the loading areas in the front of the site and there's a one-way Ingress driveway from West commodor I'm sorry from patteron road to allow trucks act access the front loading areas and there's a one-way egress onto Patterson on onto west Commodore Boulevard there's a separate two-way access onto patteron Boulevard for the passenger vehicles for the parking lot this way for to keep the car and truck circulation separate there's also a grass paaver um access drive around the building to allow emergency circulation around the building um I think at at that point we'll probably give over to the traffic engineer um so he can present his um his testimony um might help be helpful if we go back to the the previous Slide the previous slide let me just introduce this this is this exhibit is showing our proposed development along with the adjacent building that's under con construction the building is is for the most part up already as part of that application the developer there is constructing Road improvements along West Commodore Boulevard including a left turn lane a the Patterson um Road winding along the entire Frontage of this of the subject property and increase and increased um turn radi for allow trucks to make a right turn from West comor onto Patterson Road so the applicant over here has already provided RightWay dedications um in support of those improvements they work together with with their neighbor those RightWay dedications already been filed um and those I believe they're there they're starting construction on those improvements shortly thank you so we're just going to pause Mr portnoy's testimony now we'll call Mr kennel up have him sworn in so he can give the traffic testimony long time no see yes you swear affirm to tell truth hold truth nothing but the truth I do please state your name spell your last of the record sure Scott Kennel K NE L with MCD and Ray Associates located at 1431 Lakewood Road Manasquan the board accept the grals absolutely thank you for accommodating my schedule I appreciate it of course um so my office prepared a traffic report on this development the most recent um report issued was dated January 9 2025 and it's part of our existing inventory we conducted traffic counts on Wednesday December 13 2023 from 7: to 10: a.m. and 3:00 to 6:00 p.m. to be consistent with the peak hour traffic generation for this site it also captured the peak uh traffic from the schools that are located on Patterson road and doing our analysis um but we also we considered 7:30 to 8:30 a.m. peak hour traffic conditions and then in the PM was 4 to 5:00 p.m. and that and that that period basically is outside the school this Elms Elementary School that has dismissal at 320 so basically most of that school traffic is uh dismissed and not competing with the peak traffic from this site during the PM peak hour as far as traffic projections uh The Institute of Transportation Engineers trip generation manual was consulted and our report indicates that the site will generate approximately 44 trips during the morning peak hour and 46 trips during the afternoon peak hour based on existing roadway Network and existing traffic patterns traffic is distributed 50% east and west on West Commodore uh that's consistent with other studies we've done along this quarter to evaluate traffic conditions with the development we considered a design year of 2034 which is consistent with the Ocean County planning board protocol of a 10-year buildout and the um considered a growth rate of approximately 10% onto that in addition nine other developments in the area were considered in our traffic analysis so as a result basically the traffic volumes recorded in 2023 were expanded approximately 50% to accommodate all the other traffic that is been has been approved in the area and then we we sear charged of site traffic from this proposed Warehouse building onto the west commodor traffic volumes and we analyzed the intersection of Patterson Road and West Commodore with the improvements slated that are shown on the um exhibit and also as understand it is part of a warehouse development that was approved just north of this development the county is uh requiring them to provide a dedicated left turn lane westbound that'll predominantly serve the schools school buses that are going to the schools on Patterson road so there'll be opposing left turn Lanes on Patterson road when the full intersection improvements are done and that again as I understand is tied into the larger Warehouse development North of our project which was approximately 235,000 ft so when we take all that in consideration during the morning peak hour the intersection will operate a level service D or approximately 30 seconds delay per vehicle which is consistent in um with the Ocean County Planning Bo parameters and during the PM peak hour we we calculated a level service C or an average vehicle delay of 21 seconds um we also analyze the site Drive driveways the site driveways on Patterson road will operate in a level of service during the morning and afternoon peak hours and then looked at the uh West Commodore driveway and again the exhibit is incorrect where it's going to be an exit only I know it shows an arrow going into the loading area it's going to be an exit driveway and that's based on our conversations with Ocean County where we have a conditional approval and that's going to be kind of low traffic is really just going to serve trucks from that um portion of the site and that'll operate a level service B during the morning and afternoon peak hours that we analyzed excuse me Mr H sure uh the the uh exit onto Patterson that's only an entrance now there are two driveways on Patterson and the southerly driveway will Ingress only okay and then the Northerly driveway is be two-way entry and exit can I possibly be a no right turn because I was there today now granted that little stretch of road was closed but that's a very narrow road and and I am concerned that semis will be making a right turn there could be very unpleasant for the community that lives there yes we can do that and that was the same condition was imposed on the other development which sits on this property here that's going to be redeveloped right and and the other reason for that never mind the narrowness of Patterson Road but also the sight lines are limited at right toell Road where Patterson comes into it so exactly I noticed that today we have no problem making that a condition and that's a good suggestion thank you as far as the parking is concerned we're providing 78 spaces parking spaces there will be eight EV spaces and based on the state statute with the two for one credit that equals 86 parking spaces which is then consistent with the um Jackson parking ordinance so we're in compliance and as far as on-site circulation I was mentioned earlier we have a grass paaver emergency access so we can have full circulation around the building to accommodate emergency vehicles I know that's always a concern of the board so the site plan has been designed to accommodate that um so in conclusion this project would operate at good levels of service at the site driveways as well as the intersection of Patterson Road and West Commodore the parking satisfies the township ordinance and the site has been designed to provide positive on-site circulation that concludes my testimony thank you any questions from the board we want to make sure you get to your next meeting in time I have one question driveway that notes access I'm sorry I don't what was the question align them you don't the microphone sorry thank you we don't want the uh the two development Warehouse spaces have an aligned driveway on the North side yeah I mean I don't I don't see where that is an issue here because there there's not going to be any cross traffic between the two developments and also most of the traffic that's associated with the warehouse building west of Patterson Road will not interfere with our driveway because they're loaded located to the north so given the low volumes from the two types of uses and the fact that most of the traffic is oriented towards uh West Commodore and there's no cross traffic between the two develop I I don't see any negative um issues there with the the way the driveways are aligned any other questions Madam chair yes sir if the board's done we are just like to help Mr Shay make a record um I didn't take any exception to Mr kennel's testimony but Scott could you tell us um West Commodore is under the control of the county that's correct the intersections under the control of the county yes but Patterson's Township Road that's correct what what are the improvements proposed on Patterson road Patterson Road is the I look as a significant Improvement is the dedication that was provided by the applicant on this portion of the property so that we can provide a proper size curb return to accommodate the large wheel-based vehicles uh there's also a utility poll there that's also going to be relocated so basically um that's significant Improvement there and then as far as there be some widening and some improvements along our Frontage on Patterson road to be compatible with the project on the west side thank you I'll ask the applicants engineer as well but from a we're providing an additional 7et of widening along our Frontage P 17t from the center oh 17 ft okay yeah the total it appears from the plans at the proposed curb line is going to be 17 foot off the existing right of way center line which I think is in coordination with the project across the street I just think whether you or the applicants engineer gets it on the record so it can be part of the resolution because the township controls that road not the county so often you come in you say the County's in charge of stuff that's great in this particular instance the road widening requires pole relocation um we'll talk about sidewalk with the engineer not you um I appreciate the comments at the curb radi going into and out of the site are sufficient to handle both vehicles and tractor trailers you did indicate that the Northerly two-way access point is going to be no right out that that's correct as was geared towards uh no truck traffic making right so is that just going to be a sign or we going to put some curb up there there will be signage okay as it relates to the access I guess out of the site to West Commodore you indicated that the intersection improvements are coordinated both with this track the tra across the street and the track to the north correct correct my concern is what if any striping or improvements will occur along West Commodore to ensure that tractor trailers don't try to make a turn into the site there was there's some nice Centerline striping on that right and that's going to be done by signage and the county will required a proper signage do not enter signs and no left turn signs will that be done as part of this application yes okay so it's clear that in order to keep people from turning into the site with this application those County improvements will have to be done uh and lastly um we'll speak with the applicants engineer later is is there any reason that this site couldn't operate by flipping it and putting the loading in the loading areas in the back was just from a traffic engineering perspective that's that's a sight issue that's have to discuss with design nothing from your perspective that would stop this from turning it over that's all I have thank you you are a mind reader but I was waiting for the architect I'm a little shocked that the loading is in the front of the building two I saw it all right Mr kennel any any other questions for Mr kennel you can hustle off to buffaloes is there anybody sorry anybody from the public oh oh Public Public public no the public is not interested tonight ation to open up the microphone for public uh comment or for the traffic engineer only at this time second suiv all in favor I Mr Sullivan I move to close the public cross examination of this witness seeing that no one has appeared seeing no one has appeared second all in favor thank you thank you for accommodating thank you thank you hope you only have level a traffic on the way home be careful now return to our engineer planner and to address the rest of the or majority of the letters um I guess let me finish running through the site um this the site um testimony um I briefly discussed this the square the the the square FID of the building um A2 um the 64 620t footprint 8250 ft mezzanine um the the architect will provide a little more testimony regarding the the the floor plan um there will be of the of this building that will be 8,250 ft of office space primarily located in the mezzanine but there will be some split there will be some office on the ground floor which will testify the architect will will explain um and ju and just to clarify that office space will only be used ancillary to the warehouse correct correct meaning there will be no single renting of any office space to any other tenant correct this is for the access yes yes just wanted that clear that people shouldn't think that this is also a standalone office building it's only office for l to the warehouse each tenant the access to the office space is through the tenant space there no individual access to the to the mezanine space they have it's through the shared tenant through the tenant space um so um warehouses are permitted use in the zone which permits warehouse and storage of goods um wholesale distribu distribution distribu establishments offices um and combinations of two or more the permitted uses and one principal building and the the we will comply with the requirements for warehousing namely no goods are sold retail from the premises all items are stored within a completely enclosed building and the warehouse and no storage of hazardous chemicals um is proposed will be Pro prohibited um if we can go to the the other exhibit the closeup of the site plan was the next exhibit um yes thank you that's a generate there okay um so the building the the the building it's where a lot is a corner lot so we have two front yards on West commodor and on Patterson road our here's our front yard setback line and we conform with the front yard setback on West commodor the front yard setback on Patterson road um cut through the building there's a slight encroachment on that with um in the the parison road set back due to irreg to the irregular shaped lot there's a bend in the in parison road which which comes in right at that location we'll testify little more detail on the justifications for that um where 100 ft is it's 100 foot step foot front step back required and 94.3 n ft are proposed is a approximate 200 foot square feet encroachment in that setback um it's fully conforming with the rear and side yard setbacks building coverages and Heights um okay um we did as we discussed the road improvements we're proposing proposed curb to 17 ft from the center line on Patterson road um propos proposed Road winding and curbing um and as noted West K is being proposed as part as part of the Jason Project there is no sidewalk proposed as part of this at the applicant is not is asking for waiver for sidewalk um and would would need to make a contribution in lie of the sidewalk um the the application re received conditional approval from Ocean County planning board um and with no requirements for additional if this driveway was going to be egress only there were no additional improvements required by the plant by the county um besides for what was already being installed as part of the adjacent development regards to parking and loading um the ordinance requires one parking space per 1ou for, 1500 ft of warehouse and storage 200 square per two one space per 200 ft of office um with the clarified parking numbers for the 6 64,000 660 6 64,66 ft Warehouse we require 43 parking spaces for the 8,250 foot office is 41.25 parking spaces for a total of of 84.3 3 spaces we have eight EV spaces which adjust requirement of 70 76.3 77 spaces we are providing 78 spaces um 33 in the rear part parking lot um and 48 in the side parking lot um in regards to loading there was some questions regarding the loading that there are we have we are proposing a loading area in the front um which are 60 foot long um truck Lo truck loading spaces each end unit has two loading spaces and the center the the two end units each have two and the four Center ones each have one and have one loading space and each unit has a drivein ramp for smaller trucks box trucks to be a to to enter um to drive into the warehouse base Mr Port North this is a good time to discuss that yes so when this is this is County Line Road this is one of the most important roads in our Township it's a road well traveled and to put um uh tractor trailer in the front yard is uh unattractive at best now I'm looking at these plans and and from what I can see the reason you've done this is the shape of the property so if you made that end structure uh that end building 9,20 ft instead of um 177,000 ft you could just flip the whole thing and put your put your loading in the back just as if you look if you go back and look at the uh other Warehouse that's on the same Corner we required they put theirs in the back as well so when we start on this project we reviewed multiple different layouts um the the reason that is the with the shape of this lot with the two front yards with the odd shape along both frontages um there's putting a loading in the back does not provide the opportunity for trucks to be able to circulate and turn around the the property next door was able to accomplish that if we could we go over to that other exhibit again cating the this Warehouse is is a much larger it's a much larger site in order for your trucks to be able to turn around and exit they're providing this very this large truck turnaround area in order to on the on with the with the buil with um on our site the the site is pinched in the front it's a much narrower the site is much narrower in the front so sliding the building towards the front towards West Caro results in must narrow building and would not and there who cannot provide the turnaround area so would severely impact the the development by flipping it around we did we we understood that it would be a concern we looked at multiple options to try and see but there for this for the shape and for the shape of this property this layout was uh substantially more efficient Madam chair Mr rker okay regardless of the configuration of the site it is what it is the site was purchased you knew what it was from the day at purchase it's been a long-standing tradition here on West County Line Road we made significant efforts to change at least three buildings so that we wouldn't have to look at truck loading docks whatsoever at the front of the building this is exacerbated more intensely because because your building is on a curve uh I'm quite familiar with the building on the left because we designed that truck turnaround that was one of the conditions where we approved it and if I had to take out my color forms and my pencils and look at your project well the right hand Bay could be removed or altered and you could drive around that building completely right and I and I think that our board might even be conducive to entertaining a little bit more impervious space uh if you wanted to pave around that building uh and we might consider a design waiver for that but it is unrealistic to have a property in Jacks in in this decade where we're going to look at the front of a truck um there's not a burm big enough for you to do it it's an excellent project it's well situated but unfortunately uh it's inverted front to back so there are some opportunities here that we can make this work uh Madame chair suggested flipping the building left to right uh to accomplish that uh I'm suggesting maybe a quick look at maybe shortening one of those stalls to make them uh six equidistance stalls and possibly drive around the building because we haven't even touched on uh that that part of it but that would Aid in your circulation and give you much more beneficial use uh it would not hurt you whatsoever minus some square feet so uh that would be my suggestion towards solving the problem of looking yet loading docks because we just don't do it here um you know dock bumpers have never gotten any prettier in the the span of my career they're they're ugly and they're even ugly when the when the trucks are sitting there uh we went to some extent to have the trucks behind the building on the left uh that's how that application started out as well uh so you know that is my suggestion maybe take a five minute pause and uh see if we can come to some arrangement on this maybe we can hear from uh Mr Peters this before we make a little break well a couple of things first is it is a corner lot so there's three places that the loading zones can face they can face West Comer they can face Patterson or they can face a property line um I would note that in the LM Zone and we hadn't really gotten to this point yet that the location of the loading spaces in a required front yard area not the front yard setback but the front yard area which is from the building to the street requires a variance so if they put it facing west Commodore requires a variance it's noted in our report the applicant may take exception to the definitions and but to Mr Riker's point it's a design intent not to have them facing the street um um having them face Patterson might not be the worst might be less worse than having them face Commodore um but again too the other part would be simply to flip it and flipping it would require probably the loss of some building space or again if the board is feeling charitable we could say listen if you if you need to do something to take care of this what might be a variant or this design standard that quite frankly the board members and the residents of the town are looking to the board to uphold tell us what kind of relief you need to get back to the yield you were looking for because quite frankly I think if the yield was the same where the trucks go is probably irrelevant to the owner so um I would note that the design itself except for the loading docks facing the street appears to meet most of the design standards obviously Mr Port I had started his conversation about needing the 100 foot setback to get a couple hundred square feet on Patterson he doesn't have the setback it's 94 something where hundreds required if at the end of the day the Paramount thing on the board's list of wish list of things to approve this site plan is to get the loading dock and the tractor trailer parking away from West Commodore I think perhaps we could be amable to some other design waivers or variances Not to cause the yield to go down by 20 or 30% because of the odd shape of the other property lines parallel to the two Street frontages not just the sort of not trying to throw the baby out with the bath water there's something think the applicant's ready to present to us tonight with engineering and planning testimony to have these things face the front yard if the board feels strong that they don't belong in the front yard what what can we do to make this less onerous on the applicant in terms of yield on the property so I'm I'm not opposed to the comment that Mr reer made about maybe we need to take a few minutes and see if there's some middle ground that can be reached on this or in L of that we'll go through the entire report all the other things try to prioritize the things that are important to the board and go from there but I think this is probably the one that we've already heard from two board members on and as I've spoken I've seen a lot of heads nodding so any other comments from the board before we take a little break I haven't seen a prop a landscaping plan perhaps that could address it maybe hide some more the trees putting on the front the loading docks I look through all the papers I mean I see some trees that you plan on planting but I do not have any details of where you plan on putting them so per have some tall Evergreens there might do it on the front curbs anybody else have something to say before we yes Madam chair yes so I was looking at the statement of operations and it says that all of this is on spec so you don't have any defined tenants yet is there any way you could make one of those Bays or both two of those Bays smaller and at the same distance each one is 9 9,020 is for the the middle four why do we need why do you need such big warehouse space on either end considering this is on spec what kind of Titans are you looking for anyone else with a comment before we take a 10-minute recess Dr k Mr Tremor I'm sorry I'm sorry I'm going to agree with you guys because I've stated in the past I find it annoying that we have to shoehorn these huge buildings to and I understand every inch of property and warehouse is worth money but we're just jamming these massive buildings in you know there I I can't even get into the safety part of the way these buildings are constructed but we're putting people right parking right against these buildings and every inch is taken you know and we're we're not considering the way it looks the safety of people I mean you don't want to do sidewalks what if somebody gets dropped off in the street there's no sidewalk I I just think that there's too many corners being cut and you're jamming too much in but that's just my opinion Mr solivan um given the people before us have been before this board numerous times you are all aware that we are not in favor of loading docks in the front of buildings on major roadways in this Township and yet here we see an application with just that uh I think you need to go back and reconsider this uh you have five minutes to come up with something but I honestly I can't believe you came before us with this thinking that this was going to be an easy win because it's not thank you Mr Bernstein um so I've heard all of my colleagues before before me so I don't have much to add um but I know something that we've worked on even with our master plan subcommittee is making sure this the the Aesthetics of of our main throughways our County Roads is something that we're going to be pushing very strongly in our upcoming plan and um so I definitely concur that if we can move around I I think the board has also indicated I think the cheran indicated before should' be okay talking about some other possible waivers if if if the size of the building is important um but I think the Acoustics obviously um no waivers that that would um that would infringe on the safety and obviously the the the juring properties but I guess if we could look at making sure counting line stays the way we want it to look I think would be important to this board and to the residents of the Jackson so let's I think take a break and let them work on this anyone else before we take a break we'll take a 10-minute break I'll double I'll double somebody said five we'll we'll have a 10-minute break e e e e e e e e e e e e e e e e e e e e e so we've we've discussed it we've looked at at some comments we have some thoughts and how we can move um the the parking to the rear of the building we would ask I I know you started earlier by indicating that you have nothing on the agenda in two weeks I know everybody wants to hear the Rupa speech maybe we'll we'll delay that or shorten that a little bit if we can come back at that meeting um and we'll we obviously submit the revisions and we'll reach out to to to your professionals go through the entire project yes so that we can address any other concerns other concerns so that when you come back what we'll be looking is what what we need to do to help make this doable while keeping our Aesthetics yes in mind so so just I'm not sure if it's necessary to go through the variance standards because you may not be requesting that variance at so I yeah we can skip that yeah any redundancy I want to see you I I would ask Mr bite to clarify I think there was a Earnie had raised a concern regarding some square footage we can just clarify that it's a very simple clar I think I don't think that's going to change um and any other highlights Mr por thinks and just just so we're clear so the um so new plans are going to be presented sent to the experts yes for review and then we can okay just as long as uh everybody's on board they need a couple of days to review yes we know what it would be so you know it's a pressure but then you're not waiting a couple of months which is your alternative understood so um what we'll what we will do is we will have our wupa portion first okay I would assume it would take less than an hour given that this board may have questions yeah I I could talk to Mr pman and and figure out how long he anticipat it to take and then I can I can tell you Mr Feer that's fair thank you everyone feel about that any thoughts I think that's a viable solution good and Mr Feer don't bring us any more plans with parking in the we don't like that because I didn't do the other applications so I didn't hear the the lesson but yes I'm with you okay good um all right let's continue then uh for anything that would not change significantly Mr okay so Focus on those items um so let's go I guess utilities is something that would not change um we've gone I think we we've gone through the load we just fin discussed loading we which obviously it's the the layout's going to change with that we still have the same intent to have at least one loading at one Bay and drive and RAM per unit whichever in the updated configuration um utilities there's existing water main in West commodor it's being extended up to service um the adjacent Warehouse are connect we'll have a so we'll have a public War connection we already have uh JT mua statement of utility service um there is no existing there's no sewer service in the area so it would be serviced by a by a by on-site septic system um right now that's proposed to in this corner over here it's likely that will remain but that's subject to um change but either way there will be a septic system there's gas along Patterson Road so we'll have connection to that um and then the sub of course is subject to Ocean County Health Department approval um the drainage will be comply with New Jersey DP Stormare rules and Municipal ordinance um oh highlight because these areas are likely not going they there will be changes in the storm War design but they'll the most of storm war is in the setback area so expect to be somewhat modified but in our current design we have infiltration basins along the frontages um porest Pavement in the parking lot and there's also some some additional subsurface um for the the roof runoff we expect to be some similar in the new design just things moved around but we we expect to have this similar configuration probably in similar infiltrations along infiltration base along the property lines and some likely some more subsurface for the roof area um any storm any drainage will be PR priv privately owned and maintained um any onm manual and D notices will be filed on the property there's and the storm sewers are discharging to the existing County Inlet um in West commodor which is subject to County approval um I'll summarize the landscape lighting it's obviously will change with uh with with any um with any proposed layout but in a current design there were we had Foundation plantings along the building along along Patterson we had some planned things here I know there were some landscape comments from the board professionals um we'll take them into account um with anything and also pay attention to any screen screening and any revised submission um right right now there were some there were we did have some shrubs along the perimeter um some some some some trees in the island in the parking lot islands and we will with whatever we get in um take the feedback into account um we the trash will be taken by private huler right now we have a trash enclosure there but that's location is subject to change with the layout so we we'll discuss there was a waiver for that location but we'll see we'll we'll review that when we come back um the the HVAC equipment will be roof mounted and screened and the roof will be solar ready per New Jersey New Jersey code building will be sprinklered any signage is there signage has not been designed but any signage will comply with orance standards um and we intend to comply with um clear and Grading soil fill ordinances um we'll we'll we'll review that and and confirm that when we come back um and the applicant does um question for professionals applicant does would like to um have the right to place an office trailer on site during construction so iserve anything else more specific to the layout or variances and waivers we'll discuss when we come back because those details may change anything that needs to be discussed now I'd like to see rbi's plans so we know exactly kind of what we're talking you know talking about um but I think he's pretty much covered you know all all the outstanding items um was there any ex additional though you had indicated there was going to be a septic disposal field was there any um testing done yes there was there was soil testing when we did a stormw test we also did testing for the septic system so that was in the same geotechnical report that was submitted okay and the applicant had worked through all the technical revisions with the drainage previously he had submitted revised plans um so I have any reason to believe that he can make the drainage work you know with with this as well that's all thank um I just note that there was a comment in our report under Landscaping about the improvements along Patterson it appears that the grating for the detention Basin and the street trees are in the proposed right of way you're going to need to take note of that because this board can't approve improvements within the public right of way you don't control a land you need rights from the town so please just check where the right of way line is and make sure that your proposed grating and Landscaping isn't in the public right of way unless you have some sort of agreement with the town to do that that's all thank you thank you any other questions from this SP uh for this Chan I do Mr CH all right and the um the back of the building you have grass pavers yes you're going to be able to certify that they can hold up a 990,000 lb truck well provide we'll provide the certification I mean you're going to put a lot of compaction underne there which we we've in the past explain that you know these trucks can't turn on them you know and I mean it's nice that you gave 30 ft I appreciate that part but might want to consider espe as you redesign it to uh have something a little more solid underneath for uh fire access would the if I could just ask would would the board be inclined to increase the impervious uh coverage we're under right now we are at uh sorry slightly we're slightly under I'm not questioning I just put it out there just in no no so I understand my point is if we increase the impervious would' be able to would require additional storm water part of that the reasons use Gra pavers is is not just impervious but also requires more storware management that comes along with it I'm giving you a little help here so we'll we'll review that because our circulation pan will be changing depending on how we work our truck circulation I mean fire safety reasons it may be something to consider I don't know about that but can can you give us an option when you come back that's a better way to put it that way we can weigh you know if you need some tolerance or yeah yes we will look at it's in the right place it's doing the right things it's not that we're against what you're doing it's that we want to make it good for the entire town and athetics very important to us so it's not that we're discouraging we we will help and make as many um to work for you as we can uh in the in the Varan areas in order to get this project to do what we all want it to do understood and we appreciate it Miss Rose I have a couple more when you come back would you have any type of of elevations or renderings as to what the front of the building is going to look like you can if we could uh go to the last exhibit okay very good I I don't have that didn't have that thank you very much and I believe the applicant is going to have a architect to we do have the architect talk not now but at the next meeting yeah we can do the architect next have a couple what I'm what I'm pleased is that on the blank side of the wall which will now be the front of the building it has some architect details and ath yeah I wasn't finished think about building signage M you have some place to put in Mr T um the waste receptacle was going to go and that little grass kick out off the building all right um again my personal thing is sidewalks I don't know how anybody else feels about it but I think you can have people coming and going I look at Escape Routes again if anything has people have to get out of the building they can't get to their cars they need a place to go instead of the street something to consider um what's your total occupancy going to be on this building people wise right so it it's yeah we'll have that answer for you okay reason I'm saying that is because as I'm learning here with the board I'm trying to understand how we calculate flow with the occupancy and make I'm try just trying to make sure everything is on here so maybe if you can provide that you know when we come back you know how how you got that formula um what size septic system is going to go into do we have any idea the the square f up I don't have that number right because Ocean County doesn't dictate that it's based the the the septic septic calculations is based on the the the DP regulations ocean count is a review agency Andie an approval but that's why I'm asking about the flow and everything else because I'm I'm trying to learn here and I want to see what we have um the property behind it that's the steel manufacturer I believe yes is there any way that you could partner up with them I know we did it on County Line Road if you need access to turning the building around with your trucks coming in and out just suggestion you might want to consider because you said they're going to redevelop that one back there right I believe it's another property behind that that what um mentioned that's I think it's a next property pass this deal he's LM maybe you can partner up with them don't know whether it's feasible but something to consider thank you madam chair yes thank you um will you be providing a revised description of operations because I know it I think we're missing some like times of when you're going to be open and and those types of things so I know our uh our planning board engineer has asked for that we'll make sure to address anything that's uh that's missing thank you anyone else I think we've done good work yes and I appreciate your I appreciate your cooperation and I want to assure you that the board is here to assist and our professionals are here to answer your questions too if that would be of help to you please feel free I'm sure the gentleman would be delighted to hear from you so just to be clear so we'll carry the meeting then to the February 10 I think it 7th 10th 10th February 10th yes and uh you've already noticed correct I I don't think there's a notice issue but a as long as we have public here we should have uh open public open to the public now in case somebody wants to say anything but we should do it procedurally well o open it up for cross- examination open up for cross Examination for Mr poror I'll make a motion to open up public Examination for the planner and engineer Mr Port by the public second Trea all in favor I opposed none okay Mr Sullivan seeing no one come forward I move to close the public cross-examination of this witness second rker all in favor I procedurally done all right so we'll expect to see you um Mr uh um I I think you don't have to be here at 6:30 we'll we'll set a time I'll speak with Mr Shay meeting to get an idea but I appreciate that and uh we'll be here and um so just for the record so there'll be no additional notice and we'll agree toit time why don't we uh what does the board vote to carry let's vote to carry I make a motion to carry this application till the February 10th 2025 meeting second dearo all in favor I opposed none thank you very much gentlemen thank you thank you have a good evening no notice required just to with no noes required motion to close second all in favor I all right good work tonight was good work yeah