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Test test test. States of America and to the republic for which it stands. One nation under God, indivisible, with liberty and justice for all. All right, everybody. Welcome to the

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June 15, 2026 Jackson Township Planning Board meeting. This meeting has been appropriately noticed in all the uh proper forums and places according to the Open Public Meetings Act. And I will leave it up to Madam Chairwoman. >> Good evening, everyone. Um we'll have a

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roll call, please. Mr. Brezie >> here. >> Mr. Marzo, >> Mr. Heler >> here, >> Mr. Parks >> here, >> Mr. Rogers >> here, >> Miss Santoro, >> Mr. Tremor, >> Mr. Weingart,

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>> Mr. Sullivan >> here, >> Dr. Campbell >> here. We'll have a um motion for payment of voucher for recording secretary for June the 15th. Please. >> So move. >> Second. Sullivan, >> have a roll call, please. >> Mr. Brezie, >> yes. >> Mr. Mr. Heler.

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>> Yes. >> Mr. Parks. >> Yes. >> Mr. Rogers. >> Yes. >> Mr. Sullivan. >> Yes. >> Dr. King. >> Yes. We'll have a um motion for approval of the minutes from June 1st. Please. >> So moved. Sullivan. >> Second.

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>> Mr. Brezie. >> Yes. >> Mr. Heler. >> Yes. >> Mr. Parks? >> Yes. >> Mr. Rogers? >> Yes. >> Mr. Sullivan? >> Yes. >> Dr. Camp? >> Yes. We have a change to the schedule. We're asked to carry block 5902, lot 53,

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Brookwood Enterprises, from July 6th to August 3rd with no further notice required. We'll have a vote on that. Please motion. >> Motion to move block 5902, lot 53, Brookwood Enterprises LLC from July 6th

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to August >> um 3rd. >> August 3rd. Sullivan. >> Second. >> Mr. Brezie. >> Yes. >> Mr. Heler. >> Yes. >> Mr. Parks. >> Yes. >> Mr. Rogers. >> Yes. >> Mr. Sullivan. >> Yes. >> Dr. Camp.

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>> Yes. Any engineering matters? >> Any planning matters? >> No. >> Thank you. Any legal matters? >> None at this time. >> Okay. All right. We'll move right ahead then, please. Mr. trial theory. >> Good evening, Madam Chair, members of

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the board. Salvator Alfury on behalf of the applicant. We're here tonight um the first matter on your agenda for ram development, a one-year extension of the uh statutory protection period. The approval was granted in May of 2024.

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which means the statutory protection period would would have expired in May of this year. The board has the power, I'm sure you're aware, to grant these extension requests retroactively. We're asking for a one-year, our first of potentially three one-year extensions.

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Uh the primary concern of cause of the delay was working through the Pinelands inconsistencies, which we've gotten through. In February of this year, we submitted to the Ocean County Planning Board, to the Jackson Planning Board of Resolution Compliance Plans, Ocean

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County Soil Conservation District, and the JTMUA. Uh we are now uh waiting for TWWA to be issued for the sewer. Um and then of course all the other outside agency approvals before we go back to Pinelands for a final approval. We have a me

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representative, the applicant here, and we have our engineer here. If the board members or anyone else has any poisons in more detail than what I just laid out, otherwise we'd request that the board grant the extension. >> Any questions from the board members?

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Gentlemen, >> not for me. >> All right, we'll accept a motion. >> I'd like to make a motion to give a one-year extension to block 22301 lots 3.01 017

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20 21 22 23 and 24 Ram Development LLC Sullivan >> second Heler >> and one before you vote one last thing I didn't state was the zoning has not changed for these lots so that's something that be important for you to consider

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>> great all right we'll take a roll call vote on that please Mr. Presi, >> I just want to say one thing first. Once again, this proves that no matter what we say on this board, it has to go to the outside agencies for compliance. And this just proves that the system works with all the outside agencies. I don't envy the applicant going through it, but

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I understand the headaches you have and you have to comply with the outside agencies. I vote yes. >> Mr. Heler, >> yes. >> Mr. Parks, >> yes. >> Mr. Rogers, >> yes. >> Mr. Sullivan, >> yes. >> Dr. Campbell, >> yes. And again, I I concur with Mr.

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Brezie. We say it all the time that this is the proof is in the pudding. These things have a process. We're not the We're the beginning of the train, not the end. >> Correct. >> Thank you. >> Thank you. >> Don't go far.

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>> Mr. Bordon, two meetings in a row. Thank you. >> Are we gonna have to put a cot in for you? You coming back? >> Well, lucky us because if you weren't here, we wouldn't have to be here and then we wouldn't have a job

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and our salaries would be reduced >> from zero to zero. Exactly. for Indian Town Gap. Hello again, madam chair, members of board salvatory on behalf of the applicant.

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Um we're here tonight for prelim preliminary and final major subdivision site plan approval. Um 118 single family homes, 12 affordables um and associated approve improvements

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in including a community center. We have uh reports from the board engineer and planner. We have a fire report January of this year. environmental June 5th, police June 10th. Uh we have a letter from the affordable housing planner for

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the township dated June 1st and then we received the LTE report um dated today's date that we have and we'll be prepared to address that as well. Uh we have multiple witnesses and we're going to start with Mr. Bordon if we may.

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Please raise your right hand. Do you swear or affirm the tell the truth, the whole truth, nothing but the truth? >> I do. >> Please state your name and spell your last for the record. >> Certainly. Ian Bourne, >> president of professional design services, Lakewood, New Jersey. >> Is the board accept his credentials? >> Yes, we do. Okay.

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>> Thank you so much. Good evening. >> And just for the record, what are your credentials? You don't have to put them on. Just what your discipline is. >> Professional planner, licensed in the state, graduate of Ruckers a generation ago. >> Testifying as a professional planner. >> Thank you. Okay. So Ian, um, and you

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also submitted exhibits in advance of the hearing tonight. I think you handed out a package to the board members as well. >> Okay. Would you please orient the board as to where this property is located? >> Yes. So on the screen and the first uh page of the exhibits I handed out is an

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aerial map of the site. This aerial map was flown as March of this year, March of 2026. You see uh on the map north is oriented to the right. The property is outlined in black line. The municipal boundary

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with Lakewood is the yellow line that runs north south on the right side of the map. Jackson on the left, Lakewood on the right of course, and then you have white road that cuts diagonally across the left side. Uh the property uh contains 44.3 acres, is located

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obviously in Jackson against the border of Tom of Lakewood. uh does does not have direct frontage on White Road, but it has actually has direct frontage along the southern uh portion of the property. And there's Belleview Avenue, partially improved

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rightway to our north side that that intersects with White Road. The property has been zoned industrial for more than 50 years and has been included in the 2025 master plan as an

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inclusionary affordable housing track. So there's an overlay zone which is uh the ordinance adopted by the uh township committee is entitled ah Roman numeral 4. Um but first uh just staying on the

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site. The site is forested. Uh it's it's uh so is not developed currently. This site is not located within Pinelands and uh there is no environmental constraints on this property. There's no wetlands, no wetland buffers, no flood

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hazard areas, no flood repairing buffers. In fact, there's none within easily a thousand ft of the site. Uh so there we have no environmental constraints. Obviously, that means that the site is not located in the conservation overlay zone given that the

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overlay zone follows a generic or a aerial mapped wetlands as the board is aware. Um so the so the zoning uh the AH4 zoning permits uh single family lots having a

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minimum area of 9,000 square ft. Those lots must have a uh 70 foot lot width 100t lot depth maximum building coverage on each lot of 35% and impervious coverage of 70%. Uh as Mr. Mr. Ferry noted we propose 188

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lots in accordance with that uh sorry 118 I'm sorry >> 118 don't >> scare me to death 118 >> some somebody can't type and I won't tell you who it is >> scared me >> I'm sorry

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>> I scare myself every day if you go she doesn't >> like so here A2 is the overall development plan in the project in the uh in the set of plans. Um

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it is sheet two of 32. And here we have the development. Here we have the 118 single family lots. We have two proposed access roads to White Road. We have Belleview Avenue as I mentioned earlier which partially improved. And then we have our 80 foot of frontage on the southern portion. Uh

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we have a second road connection. Um uh it's required to have uh kind of jumping ahead of myself a little bit, but it's required to have two road connections. U both by residential site improvement standards as the board I'm sure knows more than 24 homes has to

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have second means of at least emergency uh egress and and the ordinance basically mimics that language. So so those were our two opportunities to have access. We do have a Maplehurst Drive which is uh to the northern part of the

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site. We have our affordable housing and uh community center on on one lot associated parking and storm water and some recreational opportunities. To the east of that is Maplehurst Avenue which is improved partially improved into Lakewood. It's

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and uh we are proposing to improve it for the portion of our frontage with curbs and sidewalks. uh that potentially is a third means of access. But our means of access are to White Road both to the north and southern portions of our property. Uh going back to the

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ordinances, as I mentioned, all the lots we comply, all the single family lots comply with bulk zone requirements. No variances are requested. The streets that we're proposing in the project all comply with the residential site improvement standards having 30

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foot partways with curbs and sidewalks on both sides. All streets have a 50-foot rightaway with uh they will be public roads. Uh White Road will be improved as required by the Ocean County uh planning board as part of their master plan. Uh

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that will be an outside site agency that we have to finish as new. Um, now speaking to the site plan, that's the subdivision portion of the project or I'm not done with it, but just on a brief overview and then a quick additional description of the uh the site plan portion which is the

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affordable uh and the community center. The ordinance requires 10% affordable housing which is provided in a two-story multifamily building. All affordable units will comply with the New Jersey DCA U-Hack requirements both for bedroom

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mix income distribution and timing of completion. There are charts on the plans that contain the bedroom distribution and the uh timing uh required timing of them as related to the completion of the single family homes.

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Um the overall project provides 10% open space as required 4.4 4 acres with 40% of the open space, 1.7 acres being dedicated to active recreation. The active recreation is in the northern

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corner, northern portion of the site off of Belleview. There's a single lot here that has 1.7 acres that has uh recreation opportunities with some shown more can be done. We have a playground and there can be more. Uh but but the

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ordinance requires the area and we provide the area Um the community center is a requirement of the ordinance. Um the community center is required is is required to be a certain size based upon

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the number of proposed single family homes. In our case, it's required to be 6,000 square ft. U this is probably going to get more complicated than we prefer, but that's just the way the ordinance is written in my opinion a bit vaguely. the we we had

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proposed a two-story uh community center with a total of 6,000 square feet. Uh but uh the planner correctly pointed out one fact which is the community center is listed in the ordinance as an accessory use.

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Uh under the ordinance a accessory use is not permitted to have a height higher than 15 ft. um that doesn't make a whole lot of sense uh certainly to us, but the ordinance also describes separately in the bulk

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zone requirements the setbacks for accessory structures of being 10 ft which is a standard of most single family zones in Jackson. However, in the listing of the accessory setbacks, they particularly list sheds and garages.

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They do not list a community center. So, in my opinion, the ordinance is is uh that's where the vagueness comes in. In my opinion, I don't disagree with with your planner's interpretation, but it seems to me that the ordinance didn't intend them to be treated the

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same as a shed or a garage because they're not listed in the setbacks for sheds or garages. Having having said that, when we received the planning review letter approximately uh three weeks ago, u our objective here is

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to have a variance-free application. We always strive to do that in front of you. So uh we we were forced we frankly to revise the project and and as a result if you could zoom in please Anthony red on the uh site plan portion we uh basically had the architect take

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the twotory community center cut it in half horizontally and put them side by side. So now we have two one-story community centers each has a height complying with the ordinance. Uh they mean of the roof level is is not

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more than 15 ft. uh we provided in the exhibits and in the submittals and the exhibits architectural plans for both. So we have the two story which we understand would require a variance but uh but seems in

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our opinion to be the preferred preferred one but the one story we provide as a as a u uh conforming um height uh community center u

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I the as far as parking goes throughout the entire site um the parking for uh we have guest parking throughout the entire property. The ordinance requires u a certain percent I

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believe it was 27 spaces to be quote sprinkled throughout the development. That was another one of the comments in the pointers review in early three weeks ago or so that we adjusted in our plans that would be submitted to the board. We provided three locations where the guest parking is now provided scattered throughout the site. So we comply with

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that section of the ordinance. As far as the parking for the site plan uh portion, um we we have a total of 80 spaces between two parking areas. One for multif family affordable which is here twotory multif family and then the

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clubhouse. The u the affordable units that we propose uh including uh that includes the credits 72 physical spaces but eight EV uh credits. I should point that out. Um the affordable units actually require

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23 spaces. We have more than that obviously in front. This is al part of the same property so the parking can be shared. Um the here's where it gets also a bit uh with the community center bit off the rails because each of the one-story buildings

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has its own basement. And another quirk of this ordinance is that unfinished building area has to be considered part of the parking. Uh, honestly, that is not something that we picked up in the rush to have the architect slice our building and drop them side by side. So, as a result, the

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two-story option that that we originally submitted requires 61 spaces, but the uh the two side by side one-story buildings actually require 81 spaces because of the extra basement. So, um,

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as a as a result, we're short on parking. I think we maybe end up if we are if we stuck with the one-story uh option eliminate one of the basements to meet >> I was just going to suggest how about just eliminating a basement. >> Well, that's what that's where I was

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going. Yes. So, as far as the single family lots, I'm trying to encourage consideration of the twotory building. members. >> Nice try. >> U each of the I just to me it's just better plan less roof area plus but

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anyway um each of the single family lots has three driveway spaces uh which complies and a garage which complies with or rises for a five- bedroomedroom home. Any additional bedrooms obviously must comply with residential site improvement standards. Uh we had noted

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in the statement of operations that all single family lots will be derestricted to prohibit conversion of basement and garage areas to rental units. U to talk uh about general uh site uh design uh stuff.

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Uh the site will be serviced by public water and sewer. The project site is currently located in the central sewer service planning area. uh Joe way plan uh public sewer is available in Whitesville Road which is obviously uh west of the property.

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We have proposed pump station with a force man running down Whitesville Road to connect to that existing gravity sewer main. There is also existing 12 water main in Whitesville Road. We'll be extending the water to the site to provide the public

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water. the pump station. If you don't mind zooming back out, Anthony on this sheet, this sewer pump station is in the uh southeastern corner of the site. It would pump back up our roads and down white road towards the bottom

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of the exhibit A2 pump station is basically underground is completely underground. The only thing above ground is a fiberglass valve enclosure. There is an emergency generator that will be present at the property and that will have a critical gate muff critical grade muffler that we

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put on all pump stations. Um Grant will provide engineering testimony but just to uh again summarize the overall project. I'm sure this board has heard at nauseium about the new stormwater regulations there. We have 16 smallcale infiltration basins to to meet

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the various requirements of the new stormwater rules. uh each of those uh basins will be fenced with the with access uh drives. I had noted earlier that the streets are 50 foot and public but there will be obviously a homeowners association for

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this project. The township will be responsible to maintain the streets. However, the HOA is and this is listed in the uh statement of operations as well, but the HOA is responsible to maintain the stormwater management systems, the 16 SSIs and any other

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management systems we have. Uh the HOA will also be responsible to maintain the uh portable housing and community center uh site, the parking areas, sidewalks, all the recreation, landscaping,

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lighting, utilities, uh and um I should have said this earlier, but I it's all the residents on the project, whether single family or or um affordable, all will have equal access to the recreation areas. Also, uh the re

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refuge and recycling for each of the single family homes will be done with the same robo can system that I and every other homeowner in this town has with the private uh a private contractor. Recycling is picked up by the township

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but garbage by independent contractor. We we did add what I thought was an important twist in the statement, which is all of the residents for this project will be required. The homeowners association will select the vendor. I I just I think there's three now in town.

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You could pick maybe even four. I could just And I know for my neighbors, they all get picked up at different days. So rather than have scattered days of pickup five days a week, everybody has the same vendor, everybody has the same days of pickup

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and uh recycling will be the same day through Jackson Township. Uh we do require two design waiverss that were noted in the uh tree expert review both related to uh

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obviously landscaping and trees. Uh one is section both in the landscape section of the ordinance 244 193A 2A uh requires that planting shall be provided along major roads to provide a buffer from noise and lights. As I as I

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noted, this is we we have no frontage on a major road because the only frontage we have is is on the southern end. We'll be proposing an access drive. So, um we we simply have no frontage to provide displantes that are that are required. Uh so, it would be completely

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impractical and impossible for us to comply with that. And then uh secondly 193D3 uh very general broad statement that says where existing trees to be saved are insufficient developers shall plant

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supplemental shade trees uh such that each lot shall have shade trees and minimum six shade trees per acre of lot area. uh my history of this township that ordinance was really written based upon

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an acre lot that this town was obviously most of the town has been developed and I've done my company have done thousands of those homes uh but not for a 9,000t lot. Uh there's just no opportunities without

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um in my opinion. You need to create an adequate buffer around a home before you plant a significant size shade tree. And with 9,000 foot lots, there's just no opportunities to do that in my in my opinion. So we ask for a waiver of that.

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Again, it's just simply impractical to do that on a on a project that in this case an inclusionary development of 9,000 foot lots. I want to conclude with a brief discussion of the outside agency uh status the letters

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that we received. Uh we received uh reviews from I I just mentioned the two waiverss from the forester. Uh we'll address all of her other comments, but we do ask those two waivers. We have a letter dated January 13th of

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this year from the Jackson Fire Prevention Bureau where the plans were found to be acceptable. The question was asked if the aerial fire trucks can circulate all proposed roads. My opinion yes and John Ray can provide supporting testimony as well. As I

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noted, all of the proposed roads comply with residential site improvement standards with both cartonway width as well as the minimum horizontal radi. And presumptively when you do that all fire apparatus works. So um

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uh otherwise u the statement was also made in the letter that all the roads should be labeled as fire lines. I don't I don't believe that Mr. Roush was aware that the streets were public streets. If they were private streets, we could mark them that way and sign

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them that way, but they're public streets. So, um, don't believe we can do that, but I'll have that. >> We could request that through the township, however, that they be no parking on the streets. >> Uh, you can certainly do that. Yes, you can certainly do that. >> I'll mention that to Mr. President.

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>> I'm just when when you do a fire lane when when he That's a good point. But when he when when the fire prevention describes a a lane or a road or access, whatever you want to call it, as a fire lane, that includes signs on the sides of the road, which is kind of what

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you're talking about, which is fine. But then they also want the painting in the road that says fire lane. You can't do that on the public street. So, um, Jackson police issued a memo dated March 16th. Uh they asked if left turns are

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warranted on White Road. That will be left turn into the site. That will be determined by the Ocean County Planning Board. Will be guided by their decision on that. They also asked if the aerial fire trucks can circulate the site. And the same response is that all the roads comply with residential site improvement

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standards. And lastly, we have a review from the Jackson Environmental Commission on June 5. And there's three comments in there, and I'm going to go over each one of them individually. One was uh just simply a statement of deforestation uh questioning or really not a question

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but a statement that the site is being deforested and the answer is yes it is but that's consistent with the zoning. I mean this is a high density zone. Uh it has been for more than 50 years as an industrial zone. uh I didn't uh well I'll get into

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uh including some development of enjoying property and I'll get into that with the uh u with the next one but and further on the deforestation there's no environmentally regulated areas here so there's no outside agency permitting

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that that so we're we're simply complying with the master plan complying with the ordinance uh item two was the northern pine snake they noted They questioned if it was suitable habitat for northern pine snake. The environmental impact statement that I had submitted to this board and the

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environmental commission contains a comprehensive discussion of that and I'll repeat some of that here. Um the uh landscape project version 3.4 uh maps the site as a rank three state

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threatened habitat patch. That habitat patch is basically the site in a small surrounding area of 139 acres. The habitat patch is noted as a deciduous forest with a greater than 50% ground closure. Uh what that means I is

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simply that it's heavily forested with deciduous trees and the the amount of sunlight reaching the uh the forest floor is less than 50% of the area of the forest. And that is important uh because of the nature of hind snakes which I'll I'll discuss in a moment. uh

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the the mapping had one single occurrence in 2002. So uh 23 24 years ago. Uh from a permitting perspective and a regulatory perspectives, pine snakes are not regulated on this property. We're

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not in pine lines. Pine threat endangered species are only regulated where they're not regulated by township ordinance. They're only regulated through an outside state level permitting agency. And that can be either pinelands or uh if you're not in pine lands only

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if there's a D permit. In other words, if we had freshwater wetlands, the wetland areas would be regulated for pine cities. The upland areas would not be. Uh in our case, we have no wetland areas. We have no flood plane areas. So there is no regulatory

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uh restrictions on pine snakes. Having said that, it is important to understand that deciduous crown closure because pine snakes require open sandy habitat. uh for burrowing, for nesting. When when one looks at habitat, you're looking for critical habitat, and that is habitat

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where they nest or or hibernate. They do so underground in hibernacular uh or nesting burrows uh during the summer. And this site is simply not suitable for that being a deciduous forest with such a heavy crown. uh they

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they require open open sandy areas because they regulate their heat with sunlight uh direct sun and uh this site is just not suitable for for any of that with any measure of critical habitat. I think that's evidenced by the fact that that this uh mapping uh has a single

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occurrence more than 23 years ago. Uh in addition to the fact that this site is fully surrounded by development, we have existing homes along White Road. We have existing homes and other uh development in Lakewood. And then to the south of us in Jackson is the uh just

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off of our our figure and just just off my aerial is a what what's called the Whitesville Industrial Park. Uh that was a uh I think it was 39 lot 40 lot industrial subdivision. It was approved

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25 years ago and was partially developed. in fact that property was fully cleared. So we're we're fragmented by development on all all four sides. So I think that's also an important point. And then uh the third item in the environmental commission letter was they noted that the site is under lane by the

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Vincent Town and Piney Point minor aquifers. Well, every property is under lane by an aquifer. I believe they got that from my AIS, which is fine. Again, every site is under lane by an aquifer. uh what you look at as part of the environmental impact statement is is water use. In our case, we're using

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public water. So we have no impact on any aquifer underneath our site because we are recharging our runoff through our storm water system and we are not withdrawing any water for for consumption or our consumption our domestic supply water is coming from

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from Jackson MUA whose wells are in the Ronin aquifer which is a much deeper more confined aquifer not located near the subject property. So again, that was not a question per se. It was just a statement, but I just wanted to put on the record, and I will address those

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with them individually, but that will be what my response to them is. >> A couple follow-ups. Um, there's no site identification sign proposed. >> We did not propose one. No. >> Okay. And you did not comment in any way

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on both the board engineer and planners report. So to the extent there's planning issues um can you comment or can you stipulate that we can address the technical comments? >> Yeah, I I didn't have any issues and we'll stipulate. >> Okay, that's all we have.

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>> I have a question. >> Want to give the uh our professionals a chance first and then we'll get to board questions. >> Thank you, Madam Chair. Um the um water and sewer that's that's public that's ama. >> Yes. >> Okay. Because there was a note on the

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plan it was going to be an HOA. It was going to take the water and sewer. >> Uh not intentional. No. Okay. But it's public water and sewer will be owned and maintained by Jackson everywhere. >> Okay. Thank you. Um the um D permit you need for the sewer and I would assume

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the water too. Would that trigger um a pine stake? >> No. um the intersection of or the end of Maplehurst. What's proposed there? >> We're just improving our portion and and

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ending it. So, we'll I think the the portion beyond our site is improved to a narrower width than what we're proposing. So, they would just connect. >> Um I guess from Lakewood, what what's the road service on there? I'm just getting

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know um to could that road be, you know, if it was improved properly, it probably be a good third access. Yeah. Um but there's no plans to improve it. Any like guide rails or guard rails to stop people from continuing on Maplehurst to Lakeurst, I'm sorry, to Lakewood?

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>> Uh no. >> Um the um uh HOA is going to get all the the storm water basins. >> Correct. Right. Um will there will the HOA documents also include provisions for um restricting the homeowners from

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changing the grading on their properties if it involves if their property involves a BMP? >> I would say so. Yes. >> Could we stipulate to that? >> Yes. >> Um and the um the clubhouse building,

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could that potentially be a sales office in the beginning? Is there any plan for that? >> We have not discussed that. I don't know if it's permitted or not. I'd be guided by the zoning ordinance. I don't know if it's permitted or not.

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>> That's all for now. Thank you, >> Mr. Peters. >> Thank you, Madam Chair. Mr. Bordon, thanks for your testimony. You have a copy of our report June 9th of this year? >> Yes, I do.

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>> On page seven, um we list under subsection C the site plan requirements. Um would you indulge me or us and and just quickly because this is the first application I believe the municipality

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is hearing for the AH4 inclusionary zone. Um, and the zone itself, part of its legislative intent was to have certain site plan requirements. I was taking notes as you went through your testimony. I think you covered most

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of them, but could you take two minutes and just go through them as they, you know, under 24463.4H 1 through 9 so we just we have a record and people can keep keep track of it. Please, I >> I'd be happy to. >> Thank you. As Ernie said, I baked my

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responses in into this, but I think that's a very good point that he's raising, and I'm happy to do that. Uh the site plan requirements are listed on our our plan. In fact, are listed, that's what's listed here on the overall development plan. But uh to quickly review them, uh the first one, there's

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nine of them in total. The first one is the uh any development with 50 or more units has to have a minimum of two separate and approved fire app fire apparatus ingress egress road. This is the rest and this is why we have the two access roads to

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uh to white road. Item two does not apply because it says developments with 150 or more units shall provide three separate and that does not apply to us. Number three, no on street parking shall be permitted within 100 feet of any roadway intersection.

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And that was actually a I should have mentioned that that was actually a comment that was in the original planning letter that we addressed in our three submitt. So the the plans in front of the board has no parking signs for more than 100 ft of the access drives, both access drives extending from White

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Road. 10% of the total area open space. I had testified to that. 4.4 acres is provided. Uh temp 40% of that open space must be recreation. That's the 1.7 acres

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that I testified to on that that larger lot in the uh northeastern corner. Um, every project with 50 or more units shall provide a clubhouse or community center minimum of 3,000 square feet and

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the the size is based on the and actually uh so we provide that. The second item would the next item which is item number seven. Continuing on the theme of a community center requires that uh every additional

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25 units beyond 50 must provide an additional,000 square ft. And this is where the 6,000 required size of the community center came from. So, uh, we comply with that. We did the math and and thereby the 6,000 square feet. Item

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eight, uh, requires access, uh, to a amenities such as the community center and recreation for all residents. Note, I have testified that all uh residents, be it affordable housing residents or single family residents,

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have equal access to all open space and recreation areas and community center areas. And then u I did not talk about this and I should have. The last one is the phasing of the amenities. And there's charts on the on the maps that that

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contain this, but the um it gets a lot of numbers. Uh 20 uh there's a there's a much like the takedown schedule of affordable, there's a takedown schedule of of the clubhouse and the recreational amenities based upon the percentage

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complete of the project. Uh for example uh 25 uh when you complete 25% of all the single family homes were required to complete 50% of the total project recreation. Uh 50 units completed

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require 3,000 square ft of community center. 100% of the recreation and for 125 units completed requires 100% of the community center. Obviously in our case 100% is 118 not 188

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uh and uh that's so but the the charts list the compliance with each of those and we we comply with all >> Thank you, Madam Chair. I thought it was important both for the board and the public to understand that um they've indicated they have a conforming use. Um

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it's a new zone. It's the first time we're dealing with it. Um, from the testimony I've heard from Mr. Bordon so far, they were attempting to have a variance-free application. Um, we may have a conversation about the

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clubhouse and what the best product is and whether or not a variance is justified or not. But I I thought if we were keeping score, we have a permitted juice. They've went through the design standards that are

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specific to this new ordinance. And as of now, except I I believe for the clubhouse, they don't have any variances. So just want sort of get us to a point from a planning perspective of what we were dealing with from a land use law

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perspective. Mr. Bordon, just one other item on page bottom of page eight, um under A6, the retaining wall that looks to be out in a right of way. Could you just give us a a snapshot of how we're going to

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accomplish that or if there's property available or if there's easement? >> You can zoom in uh back to the top of the plane there, please. Anthony, >> this is the existing rightway of Belleview Avenue, which is actually uh

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beneficially larger than 50 feet right away. Uh that's what's currently on the tax records of the town. But the the change of the delta grade between our proposed road and the property to the north uh to the north is a bit steep. So we are proposing a retaining

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wall along the northern part of road B. This is road B that runs off of White Road. Um and Right. So, the height of that wall is >> I believe it's not more than >> I think it's 4 feet. >> Yeah, I tried to keep it at four feet. I

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didn't want to trust my memory or anything. >> I guess the concern is do you have rights? Looks like part of it goes on the property. Correct. >> We did clip the corner of the property. We will we will require an easement from that property to complete that. Yes. >> Okay. So if the board acts in the affirmative, it's a reasonable

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condition. >> Yes. >> The board's not suggesting that somehow the town has to get involved with you getting this easement. It's on the applicant to secure the easement to affectuate the design you have on the plans. >> That's correct. >> At this point, as it relates to Mr. Bordon's direct testimony, any

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additional comments or questions, but thank you for letting me go through that exercise. >> If we if we get rid of that second basement, then that should help the parking issue for sure. >> Absolutely. Yes. >> All right. And I one thing I I'm going

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to ask for Mr. Brezie. I think Mr. Breesi, maybe the township and the planning board could get together and discuss uh clubouses and maybe look at ordinances, an ordinance uh defining clubous giving a little more definition

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that would help planners in the future. I would think >> we'd always like clarity. Yes, we would appreciate that. >> We could be looking at that. Yes. And >> all right, now we'll go to questions from uh the board. And I know Mr. Brezrey has something. >> Just real real quick. It's the the homes

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uh don't have basements, correct? I think I've read that somewhere. >> The homes? >> Yeah, >> the homes have basements. >> Okay, then then I think you missed one of your deed restrictions because you had you said you had deed restrictions that the uh basement and garages cannot

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be used for dwellings or rentals. >> That's correct. There's also a deed restriction in that ordinance that they can't have outside steps to the basement. I believe >> question. >> Well,

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there's nothing in the ordinance about that. The my opinion that the d the destriction on the garages and basements is needed for parking, right? We're talking about parking, but having steps into a basement. There's

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>> Madam Chair. >> Yes, sir. >> If I might, >> because it's a new ordinance and I didn't have it committed to memory. I sort of read through. >> I think this came from the master plan. >> Yes. Chapter 24463.4

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is the AH4 affordable housing overlay zone. Subsection G um says under G1 says market rate units and affordable units shall be deed restricted to prohibit conversion of basement and garages into rentals.

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>> Okay. >> And that restricts the outside access. >> No, that's my question. >> No restriction. They still have to comply with the international fire code and whole nine yards. >> Understand? Of course.

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>> Has to be building code requirements of course. >> Yes. >> And and zone and zoning for setbacks. >> All right. >> Mr. Hower, >> I might have missed this, but what's the plan for mail? You having private post boxes per house or is there a mail drop

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somewhere in the development? >> Yeah, the gang mailbox is the thing. >> Great question. >> When somebody says it to you, it means they haven't thought of it. >> It's on my list, too, Mr. >> I had a long time ago. Whenever a politician says that's a great question, they don't know what the answer

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>> that that's that gang mailbox thing with the with the post office. And I it's a great question, but but I do know the answer to it. And that is we will have cluster mailboxes. >> A cluster meaning >> the gang mailboxes >> in sections like where the where the

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guest parking is for instance. >> That's correct. >> Anything else? Mr. Heler, Mr. Rogers >> just got qu two quick questions. >> Would you use the microphone, please? Thank you. >> For my own better understanding, I got

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two quick questions. Uh this uh how many residential units are in this plan? >> 118 homes. >> 118. Okay. >> Plus the affordable. >> Plus the affordable. Right. Okay. And this all resides in Jackson Township.

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There's no overlap into Lakewood. >> That's correct. >> I ask. >> We just happen to abut Lakewood. But >> I just wanted to make sure >> Mr. Parks. >> Yes. Um on the multif family uh block and on the clubhouse, where are you

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locating the mechanical equipment for heating and ventilating? >> Well, architect didn't tell me that. So, uh >> do we have the architect here tonight? >> I will say no. I will say it's either on the roof or if it's on the ground it will be screened with vegetative screening because I know the ordinance

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requires that any mechanicals on the ground must be vegetatively screened. >> Okay. >> So I would certainly commit to that. We again our intent is to comply with all the ordinances. >> Seems reasonable. Thank you. >> Anything Mr. Sullivan?

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>> Well we've covered the whole group then >> I think. Thank you. >> Thank you. >> Well no just >> real quick. Let me uh >> make sure we have all the >> Yeah. Um just real quick. So we there's no variances but there's four waiverss.

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Correct. >> Two. >> There's two. Um there's the the two from the landscaping. >> Correct. >> Right. And but then there's are there are two additionals or is just those two? >> Just those two. >> So those are the only two waiverss. >> Those are trees, right? Trees. >> Trees on White Road and six trees per

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acre on the lots. >> Right. And then the definition that we're basing the the community center off of is that of Moscowitz pursuant to the statement of operations, right? >> Yes. >> So the fourth edition Moscowitz. Gotcha. >> Yes. >> Yes.

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>> Yeah. We're going to comply with the parking by eliminating one of the basements of the onetory community centers. >> That parking worried me. I I was flying back from Chicago this afternoon and

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what was on my mind was parking. My husband said, "What are you looking like that for?" I said, "Cuz I'm thinking about parking." So, I'm happy to hear that we'll just eliminate that issue alto together. Great. >> Um, so I know it would require us to

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provide um uh provide relief to allow a two-story one building uh community center. Um as the planner for this project, does it make it more convenient for the

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residents for it to be a twotory one building or is this separated, sliced out, two separate buildings more convenient? >> I think it would be better from a land use and planning perspective to have a single roof. you have a single roof,

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less impervious, more lawn. Um um it just better fits the site to have this twostory building. I think convenience- wise to the residents, it's equally convenient uh to have a twotory versus two one

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stories. If anything, it's more convenient to be under one roof. >> And uh would your client and yourself want to request the variance for that? Uh yes, I think we would. Uh we had we we provide I didn't go through them, but

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if you look at your packet, we we submitted the architectural plans for both one stories and the and the two stories. So and and each have a rendering. Again, as I described, the the onetory version is just each story separated horizontally and placed side

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by side. Um, so >> and when I when I look looked at this, I envisioned maybe this is a good thing because it could separate the uses um and uh maybe make the one-story

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building have more child- friendly, more um senior friendly, uh more smaller rooms inside so that they could be rooms for game playing, rooms for small group meetings, So, I didn't think that was a bad thing.

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>> It has >> and it has some some um interest built into it too architecturally >> and and I agree with that as well. Yes. >> So, in your parking calculation using that you decided per probably to remove one

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basement to assist the parking level. If you went to the twostory option on the on the clubhouse, how would that affect that calc that that that uh that sort >> the the two parking the twotory building requires 84 spaces. Currently, we have 80.

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>> Okay. >> So, we could just add four more spaces. >> Okay. Right. Ju just to be clear, right? We go beyond a certain height. We're we're getting into a devariance here, guys. It changes jurisdiction of the board. Whole nine yards.

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>> Yeah. So, you know, >> if it ain't broke, don't fix it. >> We're talking about kind of apples and oranges at after a certain point. Um, so if the board takes a break during the

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pendency of tonight's hearing, maybe we could professionals could get together on the side, open up a set of plans, and see what might happen if we were to try to look at the two-story building. I'm not sure I have the answer right this second, but >> well, I think from a planning

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perspective, um, >> I at this point it would be so complex to have to restart that entire process all over again. I don't know that we get through it tonight. And and our goal would be to address what's obviously an

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issue maybe through the township working with the planning board >> ordinance. Well, one, you know, they made the concession to go to the two buildings only in one basement meeting all the parking. At that point, why would we want to look back and create a variance when you have a variance-free

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application? How often do we get a various free application here? And when we can do that, I think that's what we have to aim for >> and and I think the two buildings in my eyes might some people might like it instead of going upstairs and stuff like that. So, right next to each other, I

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think it works well. But I think the applicant moved along with what the engine with the planner found made the adjustments eliminated one basement meets all the criteria except so I mean why do we go back to creating a variance and maybe even creating a devariance we have to stop here and go to the plant

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zoning board my opinion is keep two buildings wasn't the intention flexibility >> having the two buildings wasn't that intended to be flexible was that your intention for that >> yes yes really to avoid the variance.

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That's that's the main reason. But it does provide some level of flexibility. There may be some benefits to doing that. >> The the reason in part and I have that I included I kept the twotory building as part of the file is because the ordinance seems to be unclear and that I

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I believe that that would be corrected in the future. Some have never and I don't know there's any path forward for this but I'm thinking more holistically than it seems a shame that we would have to come back to the board for a twotory if

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the ordinance is is revised to to say yeah we didn't mean that to be the higher restriction if there was some way that we could have that as an alternate that we wouldn't have to come back to the board to convert it if the ordinance was changed but I that that gets too complic >> and then and then it's a matter of which board

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>> because it becomes a variance then then it has to go to the zoning board. Well, in my opinion, if we did it like this and it changed from that, my true feeling is then you have to come back in front of the board. >> And I think it was a good idea that went a little >> I think that we've arrived at something without a variance. And I mean, this is

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fascinating. An application without a variance at the planning board. That's that's great. But no, I think if it's approved like that, we discuss it, you explain it well, Ernie Peters found the error where the height, you eliminated one base to meet the parking and you kept the variance for your application. I think that helps speak for the

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application. Thank you. >> I agree. >> Leave it alone. >> Let's keep it simple. I'm getting I made it too complicated. >> Madam Chair, >> Madam Chair, just don't >> Not the first time. >> The solar. Don't forget that's yours. >> Oh, solar. Yes. >> Solar ready. >> Solar ready. >> They'll be solar ready. >> Yes.

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>> Someday. One of those solar ready things is going to really be solar. >> That'll make me very happy. >> Anything else? Um, Mr. Bordon. Thank you. >> Thank you. We're going to now call Graham McFarland, our engineer. >> Is it possible that we could get some

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comments before take a break heard a little bit balance out a little bit? Is that a possible? >> We we have a process. We have a process and the process will go forward. We'll hear the testimony. We'll hear the public. >> Just just to be clear,

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>> process I I I understand. So let let me explain it to you. Right. So what happens is that the board is conducted based upon what's called Robert rules of conduct, right? First the applicant goes, then the professionals go, then there's

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cross-examination of the professionals, and then there's public comment. So you guys are going to have two bites at the apple, everybody in the room, right? First, you'll be able to cross-examine the applicant's experts, and secondly, there will be a public comment period like right after that where you guys can

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express your opinions and feelings and and concerns and everything like that. So, no, no, no, it most people, >> right? So, mo most people, >> right? So, that that's that's the process. That's what we do every meeting. That's what we're going to stick with.

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>> Yeah. >> Mr. when you >> Yep. Do you swear or confirm uh to tell the whole truth, nothing but the truth? >> I do. >> All right. Please state name and spell your last of the record. >> Uh sure. It's Graham McFarland, MAC F A R L A N E professional engineer,

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professional an planner, certified municipal engineer, just providing engineering testimony tonight. Previously qualified and testified before this board. >> And welcome back. We've seen you fairly often. >> Thank you. So Graham, from an engineering perspective, I'd like you to

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focus first on storm water management, how that's going to oped and operate. >> Yes, as Mr. Bordon touched on, uh the project complies with current storm water management regulations. The new rules require a series of smaller basins

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distributed throughout the parcel. This property actually h ends up having 16 smallcale infiltration basins scattered throughout the overall development. each one having a drainage area of no larger than 2.5 acres. Again, consistent with the current storm water management rules

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of New Jersey. Uh each of those SSIB, smallcale infiltration basins will have a separate water quality for bay uh before that water moves on for the infiltration into the main air main area of the of the basin. the uh the

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topography of this site is such that there is a high point about a third of about a third of the way back the site kind of splits. So so the front portion grades towards towards White Road the back portion grades towards this corner

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here that's a low spot of the of the property. Uh so there are several of those basin there. You know there's one here one up there. one down here that will direct runoff to White Road into a uh county system that will be designed by by Ocean County. Doesn't exist right

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now, but will be designed by Ocean County. And the back portion of the site directs storm water to this back corner uh through a spillway from a uh from the last basin in the in the chain of the entire system. Uh Mr. Bordon also touched on the utilities for the project

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indicating that the public water, public sewer and pump station will be dedicated to the JTMUA. So water and sewer provided by the by the JTMUA for for the project. And of course, the project being as a residential project, it is designed in full compliance with RSIS

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criteria, which dictates requirements for the road geometry, the cartway width, uh sidewalks, and all of the construction requirements for the improvements of the road, the curb, the sidewalks, and any other infrastructure. Uh street lighting is also provided in

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accordance with municipal requirements. Uh no waiverss re requested from any of those design elements. So again, the project is in full compliance with with ordinance requirements with RSIs and with the statutory storm water management requirements. We have

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received a uh review letter from Owen Little uh I believe June 10th of 2026 is the date of the letter. And just to uh to go through Mr. Please letter briefly. Of course, he describes the project uh indicates the zoning, confirms uh our

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our testimony that there's no variances required for the for the application, indicates uh a tabulation of the parking which indicates that the the uh project is in compliance with RSIS requirements for off-right parking for each of the uh

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each of the proposed uh proposed lots. uh indicates that the uh the grading for the for the property is generally acceptable in his opinion and meets RSI's requirements. Uh he does of course point out the the municipal requirement requirements for

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soil and fill importation. So the project would be required to obtain that permit through the uh through the township through governing body. Uh he indicates that the storm water design system is concept conceptually acceptable. He does have some technical

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comments which we would agree to comply with. We don't take exception to any of his comments. Uh one little quirk on this project is that due to the uh amount of earthwork that have required, we were not yet able to conduct um you

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know test pits or or investigations. Those will be conducted after the site has been uh has been partially cleared because there is a lot of earth work here and it's really not practical to try to get those results um you know 15 and 20 feet below the existing grade. So

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that would be coordinated uh as as one of the first items during uh during construction just to confirm that everything is accurate. Uh and of course we're required to also analyze the future rainfall amounts by current uh

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statutory requirements. Uh there was some discussion about Maplehorse Avenue that Mr. Bordon already had with Mr. Police. So I think that's been resolved. Then there are some some question or I'm sorry some technical comments on the final plat which would which we would agree to

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comply with. So again we don't take exception to any of the comments offered by Mr. >> One final followup. Um, Mr. Bordon offered testimony in support of the two design waiverss. From an engineering point of view, do you concur with his opinion and testimony?

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>> Yes, I do. That's all we have agent. >> Mr. Clay, are you satisfied with those responses? >> Um, yes. Um, just couple quick questions and maybe goes to Mr. Wright, but the improvements to White Road, what's what's the county requiring as well as

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the two intersections? I believe it's Cross Street and Whitesville. >> Well, the property doesn't have any frontage along White Road other than the uh the street intersection at the you know very bottom bottom of the plan. So, this applicant doesn't have any responsibility to uh to improve

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White Road along what let's call it the perceived frontage of the project. But again, it is not direct street frontage of this application. >> What's what's the county requiring? Uh, I don't know if we've gotten feedback from from the county yet, but the intersections would have to be designed in accordance with county

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requirements. >> And, um, lastly, um, the soils investigation or testing that we're going to put off to, I guess we get the property grade, what happens if that testing shows that the storm water design doesn't work,

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>> then it would have to be adjusted to come back to this board. Okay. Thank you. Anyone from the board? >> We're good. >> Good to go. >> Mr. Ray,

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>> please raise your right hand. And do you swear or affirm, tell the truth, the whole truth, nothing but the truth? >> I do. >> All right. Please stay your name and spell your last for the record. >> John Ray, rea um credentials as a traffic expert, please. >> Uh yes, licensed professional engineer with Mcdana and Ray Associates. Uh I've

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testified before this board on many, many occasions as a traffic engineer and a traffic expert. >> Welcome back. >> Thank you. And you prepared a report early in this process, correct? >> We did. Uh it's dated December 12th, 2025.

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>> Run through the what you did with that report and your conclusions, please. >> Uh we did what I believe is a full traffic impact study for the project. Traffic counts were conducted at three separate intersections. one being Whitesville Road at White Road here in

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Jackson, White Road and Belleview Avenue which is going to be one of the access points and White Road and Cross Street which is in Lakewood Township. Uh all of those intersections are under the jurisdiction of Ocean County. We pro we did traffic generation estimates for the

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single family homes and the affordables. Uh we did the traffic generation estimates for the single family homes based on the higher traffic generation numbers that we anticipate here in Jackson Township rather than using the Institute of Transportation Engineers

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data. We've done some research counts here in Jackson and the traffic counts are a little bit higher than what the IT would suggest. So, we used the higher traffic generation numbers to project the traffic from the single family homes. Uh, we projected traffic volumes

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out to a design year of 2035 in accordance with the Ocean County Planning Board protocol. We included four other projects that are approved and are either under construction or they've been approved along the Whitesville Road corridor. We included

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that traffic in projections of uh future traffic volume demand. And we also included the New Jersey Department of Transportation's background traffic growth rate data in order to project those 10-year forward traffic volumes.

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So we looked at the 2035 design year for the project and we looked at the access points to White Road. They will operate at level of service B as in boy, which is a good level of service. They will be unsalized access points. And as Mr.

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Bordon and Mr. McFarland indicated we will have to comply with Ocean County uh requirements with respect to the design of those intersections. I would anticipate they will require sight triangles and uh you know perhaps uh

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widening along White Road to provide bypass lanes or whatever the county may want it. The both those intersections will be under the county jurisdiction. The good news with respect the good news with respect to uh the off-site impact that this project will

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generate is that Ocean County has improvements programmed for both the White Road cross street intersection in Lakewood. There's going to be a five lane crosssection on Cross Street there and a new traffic signal. And they also have an improvement program for the

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intersection of White Road and Whitesville Road here in Jackson. That intersection is going to be signalized. It's going to be widened. It's going to have left turn lanes. And with the Ocean County improvements in place for the 2035 design year, both of those

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intersections will operate at acceptable levels of service. With those improvements in place, the Whitesville Road intersection will operate at level of service C during both the morning and afternoon peak hours with the Ocean County improvements in place. And the

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intersection of Cross Street and uh White Road will actually operate at level of service B uh because of the five lane crosssection that the county is programming for Cross Street. So, the good news is both of the off-site intersections through which all of our

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traffic has to go through both one of those two intersections, the county has those improvements programmed for those intersections and they'll operate at acceptable levels of service. With respect to the plan itself, as Mr. Bordon indicated, it has been designed

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to be in accordance with New Jersey residential site improvement standards. We have two points of access to the property. There's a potential for a third point of access through Maplehst Avenue at some point in the future, but the two points of access that we have do

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uh conform to the RSIS. The right of ways for the streets are 50 ft, which conforms to RSIs. I believe the cartway widths are 30 feet if I'm not mistaken. Somebody can correct me if I'm wrong. That also permits parking on street as per RSIS.

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Uh the parking for the affordables in the community center meets your requirements and um yeah, it's very unusual to come to the board and ask for a a variance-free application, but we have one. And we also in this particular case have both of the off-site

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intersections that are impacted programmed for improvements by Ocean County. And of course, when we finally get our county approval, we will have to pay a traffic impact fee to Ocean County. They use that money to put these improvements in place. And that about

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summarizes it. >> Mr. Ray, do you do you have any timeline information from the county when the cross street issues may be addressed? >> It's going to be a couple of years. So I I I can't give you Dr. Campbell. I can't

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give you I can't tell you 2029. >> It'll probably be before the Jets win the Super Bowl. >> Okay. But but it's I just to go back for a step it the county requires a 10-year projection of traffic volumes. The improvements will be in place for the

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design year that the county requires us to do the traffic study for. It's going to be a couple of years. It it's not going to be next year. >> I've sat at some of those signal those intersections. It almost took me a couple of years to get out of there. Well, the good news is the the the project is going to take some time to

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get all of our permits and to get built and uh you know perhaps by the time the project is fully built out, the improvements will be there, but it's going to be a couple of years. >> Anyone have any questions for Mr. Ray from this board? >> That was my question. >> That was your question, too.

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>> All right. Thank you. At this time, we're going to open the public for cross-examination questions. Anybody who wants to cross-examine the witnesses that just testified can come up and ask them any questions regarding the testimony they provided. >> Need a motion.

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>> Uh I motion to open the uh cross-examination of witnesses on this application. This application only. Sullivan. >> Second. >> All in favor? I >> passes. Now this is just for crossexamination.

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>> Anyone coming forward? >> All right. Raise your right hand. Do you swear, affirm, tell the truth, the whole truth, nothing but the truth? >> Yes, I do. >> All right. Please state your name, spell your last for the record because we have no idea who you are. >> Raymond Dreamer. T R M E R. A little closer, Mr. Tremor, please. Thank you.

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>> Raymond Treamer, TR RME R Jackson resident, also zoning board resident and fire commissioner, but I'm here as I'll put my fireman's hat on later, but I'm just here as a civilian with a couple questions. Um, we're going to start with the

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community center. You have two buildings, strictly community centers. Yes, >> that won't be changed because we know that's a potential nightmare. >> No, we we if we change it to something that's not permitted under your ordinance, we'd have to go to the zoning

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board for a use variant. So, it's going to be fully compliant with the uses that are allowed within a community center. >> Okay. So, there's no future plans to do anything at this point except strictly a community center. >> Correct. Okay. Um

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actually, I'm going to get to the uh HOA part. I'm a little confused. If it's an HOA, how is the town taking care of the streets? Isn't that the HOA's job? >> Doesn't have to be. No, it could be a public public streets. The HOA will

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handle the storm water management and the lot with the basin. I mean, with the community center and the parking. Well, the reason I'm saying that is because I think that's part of the confusion you have with the fire officials letter because fire department sees an HOA.

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It's a closed community and that's why there's no parking. >> So, I I mean, I figured I would bring that up just so >> Yeah, understood. But yeah, they're intended to be public streets and it's perfectly >> Let me give you an example. Oakley Hill off New Prospect has an HOA. All the

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streets are public streets. It's not a closed community. It's not a closed HOA. It's all public streets. >> I understand that, but I just wanted to be clear. Um, no plans to And I know you can't tell

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the future, but it's going to stay in HOA. It's not going to just go away as soon as all the houses are done. >> Yeah. The ordinance requires an HOA, so we would have to be compliant. >> Oh, I know that. But we know what happens to it. >> Yeah. We once it's turned over to an HOA, we then have no control over what

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happens. But we are designing it such that it has to be compliant. >> Exactly. That's why I'm saying in front of the board. >> Yeah. Understood. >> Um if there's no occupancy in the basement, why do you need outside stairs?

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I'm I'm a little confused by that because I've been doing single family developments in Jackson since the '9s and every one of our basements that we did have outside stairs. Milco doors with stairs. People want to access their basement for equipment for toys. I mean,

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this is not new. I I could I could walk you through Oralo, Whispering Hills, B Paramount Homes projects. Every single basement has a set of stairs in them. These are houses built in 1996 to 2014.

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Thousands of them. I don't I don't know why this is even a conversation >> because 80% of them in the world I come from don't have it. I'm just asking is that your preference, your style or >> I'm just telling you every pot plan we did have a built odor into the basement.

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>> Okay. So that's what you like to do. >> No, it's not me. It's my clients. >> Okay. Okay. >> I'm talking about my work experience. >> No, that was the answer I was looking for. It's your clients. That's great. >> Uh, what kind of windows are going to be in those basements? >> Escape windows or standard standard windows. >> All right.

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>> Whatever is building code. So, whatever the building department requires, we would have to do. >> Well, we're kind of creating a gray area. Now, >> what what >> if it's no occupancy, then it's just a standard. >> It doesn't say no occupancy. It says no rentals.

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So, you're going to have living space possibly in the basement. >> It depends on the homeowner, but potential. Yes. >> Okay. That's a little different. >> I have windows in my basement. My my basement is finished. I I don't know why that's

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>> How big are the windows? >> They're about uh 2 ft high, >> right? That's a standard window. It's not an escape window. >> Well, that's building code. The board has The board couldn't give us relief if we asked for it. that we have to comply.

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>> I'm not arguing about building code. I'm just just up a point. >> No, I'm just responding. I'm not arguing. >> Hey guys, one at a time. One at a time. >> I'm sorry. >> Yeah, >> but yeah, we we we can't rent out basement or the garages. That's what the deed restriction is for, >> right? I I get that. I'm just putting a

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little caveat on it. Um, is this an open community? It's open to anybody? >> Yes. >> Do we have any idea how that's going to be handled? Um, I don't think anyone is allowed to discriminate against a prospective

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buyer. So, if someone wants to buy, they buy. I mean, I don't know how else to to say that, but constitutionally, you can't prohibit people from buying. >> That is correct. Yes, I agree. >> We we agree too. Okay. Um,

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if you're going to have parking on the streets, are you going to put restrictions on the corners so the fire trucks can get in and out? >> That might be a state county thing. I don't know. I'm just asking you. >> But yes, we would have to make sure that

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there's adequate turning radi for any vehicles. So, yes. >> And we would work with Doug Cleer. >> You know, that's why I'm saying that. >> No, I agree. Uh let's see the snake study. The EIS said that it

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was dry sandy soil that was amendable to the snakes. Did we do a snake study or no study was performed just a habitat assessment in the EIS?

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>> Okay. So, is is not a state study required? >> No. As I said, they're not regulated >> by any ordinance or state regulation. >> Okay. Well, I was told differently, but I figured I'd ask that. Um,

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the six trees, why is that a problem if there's no I mean, I could see there being a problem if there was septic in the front. You have limited space without septics because you have sewer and main water. Should be no problem putting six trees. Couple in the backyard, couple in the front, couple on

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the side. >> We're talking from you're talking to somebody personally. When I came out of college, I worked as a township forester in Jackson in Tom's River. I was the forester in Jackson for a couple years in the 80s. I was the guy who was standing there saying, "Save trees right

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next to the houses." As I've gotten older and I've seen oak blight and other problems and windb blown, I changed my my way of thinking on that. And uh what you plant today as a sapling in 30 years is 50 60 feet tall, 12 in

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trunk. I don't want that within 20 ft of a house. Personally, it's going to fall in a house. And when you're dealing with 9,000 square foot lots, you're not going to there's not enough radius around, in my opinion, a radius enough around a house to create a safe

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space uh to uh prevent damage and risk of injury or public safety or damage to a house. >> I agree with you 100%. That's why you put Bradford pairs and stuff like that that only go 15 18 feet, you know. So I I don't see that that

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being >> could we could we um request a street tree? >> Well, street tree is but >> that's part of >> No, street tree is larger than an ornamental. You have you have street trees, you have ornamental trees. What Mr. Tremor is describing is more of an ornamental tree, >> right?

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>> Yeah. They grow. I'm thinking of shade for walking. for example, was was the most popular tree of the 80s and 90s and now they're >> light >> because they their limbs break under icing conditions. So they you know it's that's the problem with an ornamental

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tree is they tend to break under under ice storms and we've had a few of those lately. >> So you should still have certain amount of trees. You're taking tens of thousands of them down. I know that's what the people are screaming about. So we should

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put it back there. And if it's Bradford pears, red maples, and stuff like that, because I've done a lot with trees, too. And don't get me wrong, I just had a bunch of big oaks taken down that were diseased. So, I get that. But, >> you know, there's just certain things that shouldn't shouldn't be overlooked,

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and I think the trees are one of them. >> But, all right. Thank you. >> Thank you, Mr. Truma. >> Question, >> Mr. Brazzy. Now I I have one question s especially came

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up with discrimination so forth your applicant totally comply with uh hacker. >> We agreed we have no choice but to apply with you. >> You apply totally with uh hacker. >> Yes. >> Thank you. >> Up close to the microphone please. Thank you. >> Please raise your right hand. Do you swear affirm to tell the truth whole

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truth nothing but the truth? >> Yes I do. >> And please state your name and spell your last for the record. Araham Mandelbound M- DLB B- A M >> All right. And your address? >> 155 White Road, right opposite SSI 6 on the >> for today's presentation? >> Laura, you good?

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>> As far as the traffic studies, um at what I know they were submitted a while back, but when were they conducted? um simply because living there for 10 years during holidays when school's off the traffic is significantly lower than >> schools were open early December of

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2025. >> Okay. And all of those three schoolings were done. >> Believe me, we've been doing work in this area for a long long time. We are aware of the BMG schedules and everything that's going on in Lakewood and our traffic counters do not do traffic counts unless everything's open.

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>> No doubt. Again, I've seen tra I've seen traffic conducting, you know, things on over Passover when >> I understand, >> you know, very different than uh September time when when school's on. Um and also regarding the entrance and exit, both of them on White Road, are

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the improvements to White Road restricted strictly to the um intersections or are there general improvements that are recommended to the county for O for the whole the entirety of White Road? That's that's really up to the county,

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>> right? But yeah, >> understood. I mean, have there been precedents set in the past? Are there, you know, usually assumptions to go off of? >> You usually the county only requires frontage improvements typically. Uh this is a somewhat unusual case in that our

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two connections to White Road are we don't have a whole bunch of frontage on White Road. So, it's up to the county. >> Got it. But it's typically limited only to the intersection, not the entirety of the road. >> Typically. Yes. Thank you. >> Thank you, sir. >> Mr. Ray. >> Yes.

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>> Whatever the county wants to do, you're the applicant would have to comply with. Correct. >> We have yet. Yes, Mr. President. >> Thank you. >> Anyone else at this time? >> Hello. >> My name is Yitzker. >> Oh, hang on one sec. Do you swear or affirm that tell the truth, the whole

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truth, nothing about the truth? >> I do. >> All right. Please state your name and spell your last for the record. >> Herz. My last name is H E R TZ. >> And your address? >> 103 Belleview Avenue, which is if you could uh point out somebody.

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>> Nope. >> To the left right there. >> That's my house. Yep. So, first of all, I would like to invite all of you to a um see the block. So, so this is just cross-examination questions, this portion. So, if you have any

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cross-examination questions, now's the time. >> Sure. Okay. Mr. Ray, your report identifies the morning peak hours as 9 to 10:00 a.m. and the evening peak as 3 to 4 p.m. Did you collect turning movement counts during the 7 to 9:00

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a.m. and the 4 to 6 p.m. commuter period? >> Yes, but those were the peak hours. Does the peak hour you select coincide with the residents of those 130 homes when they will be leaving for work and returning home?

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>> Yeah, the assumption is a worst case scenario. One in which the traffic generation from the homes coincides with the peak hour on the street. So, it's a worst case scenario. >> Yes. >> You're assuming that it does coincides? >> Yes. >> Perfect. In preparing this study, did

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you determine the start and end times of the schools served by this corridor or the number of school buses using White Road in the morning? >> School buses and cars, everything that went through those intersections was counted. So, to the extent that schools

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were open, uh what hours they opened, what hours they dismissed students, we counted everything that went through those intersections, including school buses. So, did you take in, just to be clear, the start and end times of the schools? You just walk me through how you went to

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get that information. >> We we did the counts, if I'm not mistaken, from 7 to 10 in the morning and 3:00 to 6:00 in the afternoon. And from those counts, we determined when the peak hours occurred and we assumed that our traffic would coincide with the peak hours on the street.

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>> So, did you actually reach out to any schools to find I'm just giving you no school? You didn't reach out to any schools? >> No. Okay. Are you aware um can I ask you this question? Do you know if the schools run a staggered or if they all have the same

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exact opening time? >> I have no idea. >> You didn't you didn't figure that one out. >> Okay. This area has a high concentration of private and religious schools which generate more bus trips per student than public schools. Are you aware of that?

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>> Yeah. And they were counting. >> Did your counts or trip generation account for that elevated bus volume? >> Yes. >> Now, did you analyze how school buses stopping and turning on White Road interact with 130 households entering

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and exiting at your two new access points during those start and end times? >> Uh, the alignment of White Road is level and straight. The sight distance is good. And there are motor vehicle and traffic laws. When the school buses stop and they put the signs out and the lights are on, people know what they

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have to do. Yes. >> Do you know how many elementary schools there are in Lakewood? >> No. >> Do you have any idea? >> No. >> Do you know with 130 houses how many different schools that may represent? >> Well, it's 118 houses and 12 apartments,

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but no, the answer is no. So, how are you even be able to begin to determine a study of busing if you have no basis to understand how many buses will be coming in each school? Let me just finish my question. >> Each school >> Okay. Sorry.

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>> Yeah. Each school we don't we have boys and girls and even amongst boys there's no shared busing. So, if you have five schools on Oak Street, they're not even sharing one bus. There's five different buses. So we're talking about a lot of lot of lot of buses which you don't even

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have the numbers at all to have an estimate. What are you basing any idea on the bus study on? What's your where are your numbers? How many schools you don't know? How many buses? You don't know. So how did you even bring up something? >> What what's the question? I'm sorry.

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questions very clearly. It's quite obvious that this esteemed planning board is trying to make it very good for us and make sure that we that live there, our quality of life will not be impacted negatively. So they're ba

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they're relying on you to do a proper job to take in to do the due diligence so that all the people over here will not be negative impacted. So I'm just I'm just trying to understand how is it that you expect them to take you

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seriously when you don't even know how many schools, you don't know how many buses will be coming in there. They I don't think that they in good conscience could go ahead and do what you need them to do >> without that information. >> I could just do two quickly responses.

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Number one is we don't know who's going to live in these houses. So, they may all go to public school. Number two, even though we know the reality is not likely. Number two is this is a planning board application. >> I said good conscience by the way >> and that's why I said not likely. But the next thing is this is a planning

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board application. So the planning board cannot consider off-site traffic as part of their decision. The law is very clear that once a car gets on the road, it's not this applicant's responsibility to deal with the traffic. So that law is crystal clear and it's been around for

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decades. So um although we understand your point, that's not something that we're responsible for. >> I'm not I don't have any judgments against you. I guys think you guys are getting paid well and I I >> taking it personally. It didn't give me a legal answer. >> I'm just turning to them and I'm saying you guys are trying your hardest. I know.

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>> Just just to be clear that the applicants attorney is true. So what happened I I I don't know why the Supreme Court ruled this way a couple decades ago, but it's for whatever reason the zoning board is able to take into consideration off-site traffic for

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purposes of denials. The Supreme Court ruled that the planning board cannot. So the planning board all they can do is look at the ingress and egress of the site itself the safety and health and welfare of that and then the circulation pattern within within a plan right so

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they can't look at offsite traffic >> is it okay if I interject I'm not sure I'm just kind of I'm trying to understand what do you mean by off offsite >> so so what happens is that like they can't say you know a mile down the road this is happening uh this this much

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traffic happens you know, three traffic lights down. >> This be offsite. I don't think this is offsite. I'm talking about onsite, >> right? So, what you're talking about is circulation, right? I'm sorry. What you're talking about is I I guess from what you were going back and forth with

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busing that happens >> busing that's coming into this development, >> right? Right. Through and also outside. So what happens is that the the board can base a denial off of the ingress and egress in a site or the circulation contained within that. That's case law,

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right? So if we go beyond that scope, we run the risk of being overturned in superior court if it gets um appealed, right? So so that that's the balancing act that the board has to weigh. >> So I will appeal to you as you know you're not we're not the lawyers. you

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guys know a lot more than me. But firstly, I think that it's not considered offsite. That's just my understanding. But again, you just explained to me the top the idea right now. So, you may be right. I may be wrong. >> But I do believe that as part of it, you would do a study to see how much expected traffic is going to be coming

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in. >> So, so we're kind of getting more into like general comments than than cross-examination right now. So, we got to Okay. >> If you have any more questions for Mr. Ray, >> I appreciate it. Your acceptable findings at both

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off-site in intersections assume Ocean County builds new signals and widens Crawl Street to five lanes by 2035. Are those improvements funded and programmed or are they planned but unfunded yet? >> I don't know if they're funded. I know

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that they are programmed. And and again to take a step back, the Ocean County Planning Board requires us to look at a 10-year horizon when we do traffic studies. And I'm confident based on my experience that those improvements will be in place within that horizon.

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>> These homes will be occupied years before 2035. What level of service do those intersections operate at? >> Not required. I have no idea. >> Okay. Okay. You grew traffic by about 10% to 2035, roughly 1% a year. What NG

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NJ do DOT that's the the Department of Transportation source supports that for the Lakewood Jackson Carter. What is the source that supports that for the Lakewood Jackson corridor that that growth rate? >> It's the New Jersey Department of Transportation's published growth rate data for Ocean

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County. If you take issue with it, contact them. But that's what I use. That's what the Ocean County uh planning board requires me to use. >> Okay. Okay. And did you include the other pending subdivisions in Jackson and Lakewood, including ones on tonight's agenda? >> Yes.

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>> Okay. >> I mentioned that at the beginning of my testimony. >> One thing to confirm before you go. The report is signed by John H. Ray with Scott T. Kennel as senior associate and the HCS sheets list the analyst as STK

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Kennel. If Kennel is the one who testifies rather than Ry, just swap the name. Good luck tonight. >> I'm right. I'm okay. Thank you. >> I just read it off the phone. >> All right. Please raise your right hand. Do you swear, affirm, tell the truth, the whole truth, nothing but the truth? >> Yes.

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>> All right. Please state your name and spell your last for the record. >> Joshua Van, Vann, 169 South Oak Chapel Road. >> Okay. >> This is being recorded, so you need to get very close to the microphone. You can lift it up if you need to. if if you could say your info one more time for a board secretary.

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>> Joshua Van, 169 South Hope Chapel Road. >> Okay. Just some follow-up questions for Mr. Ray. Was your testimony relating to the traffic within the proposed development or only outside of it? >> Both. >> Both. Okay. So, how many buses are we expecting within the development on a

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daily basis? I have no idea, but the streets internal to the inner to the subdivision are designed in accordance with New Jersey residential site improvement standards and that is what the applicant is required to do. >> Okay. So, can you testify? >> School buses, fire trucks, whatever. >> How many school buses?

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>> I have no idea. >> So, can you confidently testify that we will provide an acceptable level of service and not back up onto White Road? >> Yes. >> Based on how many buses? based on the fact that our subdivision conforms to the RSIs, >> which is what the state requirements.

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>> Okay. So, you don't know how many buses will be entering the subdivision. >> You do not know. >> You do not know. But yet, you can testify. You can confidently testify. >> One at a time, guys. One at a time. >> Let me finish. The streets are designed to accommodate the buses. Whether there are two, three, four, five, or 10, the

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streets are designed to accommodate the buses. >> I'm not asking if you followed any particular design standard. What I'm asking, >> that's not my question. >> Okay. >> I am asking you, can you testify that based on your knowledge of the amount of

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buses going into this development, based on your knowledge of the schools, the populations that will be served, that we'll provide an acceptable level of service and not back up onto White Road? >> Absolutely. I testified at the beginning of my testimony that the two unsalized

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intersections with White Road will operate at level of service B as in boy. It's an excellent level of service. That includes school buses. Yes. >> How many buses will be entering this development? >> I have no idea how many exactly how many buses, but based on the traffic flow along White Road, you know, you live in

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the area. It's large lot single family. There's not a lot of traffic and it is a a connector between Cross Street and Whitesville Road. based on the traffic volumes on White Road, there's not going to be an issue. >> I'm not talking about the current traffic volumes. I'm talking about the proposed traffic volumes. And without

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knowing the amount of buses that will be serving the proposed development, how can you testify? >> And I'm and I'm talking about traffic volumes 10 years from now, which is what the county requires of. Yes. Not current traffic volumes, traffic volumes 10 years from now. With the growth rates,

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the other projects in the area, plus our traffic, it's all been factored in. But you don't know how many buses will be going into the development. >> You can ask me that question 10 more times and the answer is going to be the same. I don't know. >> Okay. So without knowing how many buses will be going into the development, you are somehow testifying that we will not

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back up onto White Road and we will provide an acceptable level of service. >> You may not back up onto White Road. I don't know about that. >> I have no further questions. >> Oh, it's a race. >> We have plenty of time. >> He beat you. Please raise your hand. You swear, affirm, to tell the truth, the whole truth, nothing but the truth. All

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right. >> Aaron Tishler. >> Please say your name and spell your last. >> Aaron Tishler. Tishler. T I S C H L E R. >> And your address? >> 202 White Road. >> So the, as you guys call it, the uh

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south entrance >> enter into the microphone, please. >> The south entrance to White Road. I guess it's the one closer to the bottom of the page. So you made it you guys said that you need two

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access points to the development >> correct >> I see one two three four that's going to be five access points >> because you have that's already an existing street where um I guess it's called Maplehurst

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>> that's already an existing street up to number two is already existing that's one access. Then you have then over go moving over to your right is another access and then moving over to the next one is another access and then

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you have another access out to cross street to from uh I guess Belleview. So can that access point be shut down? >> No. >> Why not? >> Because those other access points that you mentioned aren't there. They're not real. No,

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>> we don't we do not have access to cross street. >> You and we we need two points of access to White Road. >> But you need the RSIs, >> but you have access point to cross street and you do have access. >> Deian, can you help me? Do we have

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access to cross street? >> No, no, no, no. If can I borrow your uh >> Hang on one more time, guys. >> Right here. This is that's Maplehurst is is an access point. And then these this right here is already existing street, >> right? >> So you have an access point to your

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development. One, two, and then you have an access point out to >> No, we need I'm going to make it really easy. We need two two points of access to White Road. >> Why? >> We need two points of access to White Road. Because Because we have more than 25 homes.

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>> But why do you need to White Road? You need two access in the in >> because Maplehurst right now is a dead end. >> No, it's not. No, it's not. But it it's not approved. It's not improved. >> But in your plans, it's supposed to be approved, >> is it not?

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>> This is this this is the plan. It conforms with RSIs. You may be unhappy about the one southerntherly point of access, but it's required for the project and it's going to meet Ocean County requirements and we need it and it's going to get built.

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>> You have you have access. You're you're telling me this is not an access. This street right here is not an access. It technically is an access, but uh we can't we we we just had a long discussion about school buses where they you know you don't want school buses going down. >> You do want

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>> Yeah. >> I I think it's inappropriate to have side discussions here, don't you? Let's come to the microphone. If you have something to say, come to the microphone. Ask the question. >> Okay. >> Are we let ask the developer question?

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>> Sure. No, >> you may. I'm talking about a gentleman who's coming up on the side. >> He didn't testify yet. >> Oh, so um I think the the answer to your question is that um we have no objection

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to eliminating that southern access point. The issue is that um the road the maple whatever >> Maplehurst is narrow when it gets into Lakewood but if it can accommodate the traffic we have no issue.

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>> Yes, I agree. What we could do is connect to Maplehurst as we already are connect to White Road on the northern end. We could even add we have plenty rightway here. We even add a center island there which is another provision in races and then eliminate this access.

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>> No, no, no, no. We we want the two onto white. >> Okay. >> Yeah. We have we have fought for years especially in the master plan and with the uh affordable housing plans two good access roads in and out and safety reasons and so forth. Am I right

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Miss Campbell? >> Um just to follow >> Mr. Peters >> to follow up on Mr. Russy's comment about appropriateness. The ordinance standards requires for developments with 50 or more units shall provide a minimum of two separate and approved fire apparatus ingress and

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egress roads. So, so it's not just a 20 foot drive. It has to be something that the fire department's going to approve. And they're not. And am I ask is that is that not going to those streets are not capable of fire trucks

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going down? >> Am I allow you the question or >> No. >> Oh, sorry. >> Okay. Fire trucks cannot are firet trucks able not to go down? >> We don't know the answer other than the

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fire department um commented on the plan that we presented and we agre agreed to address their comments. So we believe those are the safest approaches. We haven't considered in any detail nor as a fire official that third access point that you're referring to.

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>> 23rd >> where those there's there's two roads that you that are already part of the existing road and then there's >> being Maple H. >> We we offer an alternative and clearly heard from the board that they want both access points to White Road. Okay.

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>> That's what I heard. Correct. >> Absolutely. And now you only have one year. And I heard that >> you are going to address either the board or >> Thank you. And you're welcome to come back. >> All right. Please raise your right hand.

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>> Do you swear or affirm the tell truth, the whole truth, and nothing but the truth? >> Yes. >> All right. Please state your name and spell your last record. >> Jhonatan Olstein. O L S T E I N 219 White Road. >> You may have to slow that one up for Laura. Just spell it out if you can. >> O L S T I N

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219 White Road. Um I just one question >> into the microphone. >> Just one question. Do you have the exact dates that the traffic studies were made on site? Thursday, December 4th, 2025.

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Uh that was the date at all three of the intersections and Schools were open, weather was not an issue. Um, I know you may find this hard to believe, but if there's any accidents

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in the area, any detours, anything that would affect the normal routine flow of peak hour traffic, our traffic counters are told, "Come back to the office and don't do the traffic counts." I >> understand. So, there's only one You only tested on site for one day,

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December 4th, 2025. Thank you. Please raise your right hand. Do you swear or affirm to tell the truth the whole truth and nothing but the truth? >> Yes. >> All right. Please state your name and spell your last in the record. >> S Tishart T E I C H E R. >> All right. And your address? >> 148 White Road, Jackson, New Jersey.

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on the exit on Bell. Um on the exit on Bell, did you say there was a 4 foot retaining wall? >> I'm just curious. >> Yes. >> And it's not going to block any line of sight. >> Nope.

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>> Oh, >> I'm back. >> Okay. >> You snuck up on me. Yeah. >> Um one more question. Mr. Are you aware that December 4th, 2025 was the Khaneka vacation, the Hanukkah vacation? Um that day that um I believe Jewish

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schools are mostly off then. >> I I I'm not aware of that and uh you would have to prove that to me. >> Sure. All right. Do you >> do you swear affirm tell the truth, the whole truth, nothing but the truth? >> Yes.

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>> All right. Please state your name and explain your last of the record. >> David Pollock. My last name is spelled P O L L A C K. >> Right. And your address? >> 208 White Road. >> Lori, you got that? Yeah. Okay. >> If I could just go back to the question

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about the ingress and eress onto White Road. is the only opposition because of the what would be required from the fire department. If the fire department would be okay with whatever they can come up with in order to allow the fire trucks

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to access it, would that be something that can be approved by the developer and would be able to be approved by the board? Meaning, if the fire department is okay with it, is there opposition from the board and is there opposition uh from the proposed developer? there's not opposition from the

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developer. We're guided by the decisions of the planning board and their professionals. >> We're looking for the best access for all points of this particular development. This would give uh

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residents good options for going up to the right, going up to the north, down to the south on a maiden road, on a county road. That's what we're looking for. This is a county road and it gives the best access

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to equidistant for the residents who live there to go up to the right, to go down to the left and it's the safest. And that's what we were looking for in the master plan and that's what this developer has given us. >> I understand. I think previously though it was stated that the issue was with

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the fire department access, not what's best for the residents. >> What >> the fire department cares about what's best for the residents? That's what they look at. >> But is that just in an approval? Is it a zoning question? Meaning as long as there are other roads that would be wide enough, is that something? >> So if you want to ask that to the

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applicant. Yeah. >> Ask that question. question. >> In the event that the the fire department would not have an issue with moving the access to a point where it would be acceptable to them, is there any opposition from the developer to move those entities?

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>> We've indicated that we would agree to that, but we defer to the board. It's not just the fire officials call. It's also the board doesn't just look at this in a vacuum. They look at the entire area to make a decision. They don't look just at this immediate neighborhood. So we would we're okay either way.

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>> Mr. Brezie may have >> I just want to throw my two cents in here. I said it earlier that for years and I give the master plan subcommittee looking at how we get two solid entrances into a a development with this many homes. That's accomplished here.

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But moreover, and I've seen in a few years on the boards, this is probably one of the best internal circulation plans I've seen in years to handle everything. or coming in off the main road like that. Either way, if there's an accident on one end, you can still get the other end. So, the whole concept

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of the roadways there and internally appear to be the best, safest solution in my opinion. >> Understood. Thank you for that. I just want to make sure that we're clear because I believe previously it was said by members on the board that the issue was with the fire department. Are we now saying that that's not the issue?

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>> It's always an issue. However, we our main working with the fire department. We're looking at a county road and we're looking at a local road. County roads are preferable to local roads for many reasons. They'll be improved by the

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county. They will be uh addressed with the uh processing during the winter, during storms by the county. And that's a concern for us so that we in Jackson do not take a great deal of traffic out

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on a local road, very narrow local road. I drove it. I drove the whole place more than once in the last two weeks. So I can tell you that this is the safest thing this and for the people on white

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because it gives two access and egress points giving the people who live there less traffic at one exit and entrance. If you if you would take away the second entrance and exit that would double the

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number of people going out one way. That that would not help you. That would hinder you. This divides the traffic and that benefits you. And that's our goal here. Our goal is to help the residents that are there now and the residents who

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will be there in the future. And the future is going to happen. The future is coming at us very quickly every day. And we're doing our best to make it the safest place for you to live and the people who are moving in to live.

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>> I appreciate that. And I'm sure Mr. they will remind me that this is supposed to be directed over here. But now that we did discuss that, I'm sure there'll be more comments about that access. So, I won't litigate that now. >> But I just want to just be clear. The the two entrances are from white are because the board wants it, not because

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the applicant wants it or not fire department, >> the fire department wants it. >> I believe we just said that even if the fire department would be okay with it. So, it's from the board. And even if the fire department >> just to answer, even if the fire department didn't want it, the issue is

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that Maplehurst Avenue is not sufficient. >> It is too narrow and too dangerous to make that main entrance. >> Like something else. >> So So we're we're kind of getting more into like deliberations at this point, guys. We're we're still in the cross-

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examination phase. Uh so if you have any more questions you can >> anyone with a with a cross-examination let's not muddy the water >> and Mr. Brezie has a comment >> and madam chair everything you said about the main county road and stuff and you have to understand and the applicant

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may not like it. The county requires so much out of the applicants to widen the intersections to in the county controls that and that's one of the best controls we have on a road like that. Uh we get to a local road you will not have that kind of uh deliberation to get those

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roads widened and everything set up like this. As I said this supplies a great internal circulation also. Thank you. >> Come forward. >> All right. Please raise your right hand. Do you swear or affirm that to tell the truth, the whole truth, and nothing but the truth? All right. Please state your name and spell your last for the record.

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>> Erlinger. Last name E. >> You're going to have to have to speak up. >> Erlanger. Erlinger. E R L A N G E R. Live on 16 Linda Drive. >> 16 Linda Drive. So you uh you testified in terms of the

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traffic patterns within the development that there's the traffic would be properly okay would be manageable across the development. I'm going to reiterate I just want to highlight some numbers. I want to make sure I understand it. Assuming this development is being mark

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marketed heavily to the Jewish community. Let's assume and let's assume that each family in average has about six kids. Let's assume that's about 720 kids, right? 120 homes, six kids. Let's say an average 720 kids. If if

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there could be they're sending their kids to the private schools in Lakewood, let's assume. And they could be sending it to any random school. There's obviously tens of schools in Lakewood. There is a possibility there could be a

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hundred possibly 200 school buses within the development at a given time frame. Right? We're talking about 7 to 9:00 a.m. How I'm just just walk me through how's it possible to have 200 buses or 100 buses which is not out of the norm.

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If you come to our neighborhood just a white road neighborhood there are plenty of buses just there um on any given day. How would a 100 buses be considered a proper traffic banner? >> So, I could answer that without because it's really a legal question more than a

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traffic question. The state law is that the internal roadways have to be designed under what's called the residential site improvement standards. We can't deviate from that and the board can't tell us to deviate from that. That's a state regulation. Did they contemplate the unusual nature of the

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Jackson Lakewood development track traffic patterns? Probably not. But the state law is these roads, internal roads are designed per the law. We can't we don't deviate from that. So they didn't take that into account, I'm sure. But it was a cookie cutter thing that they

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did for the entire state and we're complying with it. >> Got it. All right. Thank you. >> I got a I got a question. >> Anyone else coming forward? didn't >> please it would be good if you could line up or uh come closer so that we

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could move along. We have another whole section to get through. >> Sorry about that. >> Mr. didn't you testify that all the roads not as they meet 30 foot requirements? >> Yes. >> Yes. >> They're all at least 30 foot wide. Curve curve. >> Correct. >> Thank you.

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>> All right. Please raise your right hand. Do you swear or affirm the tell the truth, the whole truth, nothing but the truth? >> I do. >> All right. Please state your name and spell your last for the record. >> Aaron Kaplan. last name K A P L A M. >> All right. >> Just follow your address. >> What's that >> address? >> Uh 19 Galassi. That's uh the first

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culde-sac off of White. Just a followup question from the last person that was here. He made a calculation roughly about 100 buses within inside the development alone. And he was advised that it's not that the uh requirements are not that are based on

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the study at large and not individually kept. I just wanted to clarify. Does the planning board have a ability to take I'm sorry. Does the planning board have the ability to take into account the actual um what they would perceive to be different than what may go on throughout

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the rest of the township or the city. We mentioned that they have no say outside of the limit outside of the site, but within the site that the planning board have the ability to make to uh withhold them. No, that that I was the most recent question related in in the site.

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That's where the residential site improvements control the interior roadways. That's a state standard that we comply with >> and the planning board has no say at all over the state standard. Meaning if it's a state standard, they have to say this makes sense even if they know a basic.

419
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>> So ju just just to be clear. So what happens is that there's a hierarchy of rules. Um when you have an uh they call it NJAS right Jersey statute annotated um we the engineering has to like a

420
02:10:33.920 --> 02:10:50.320
local ordinance can't supersede that there it's like a pyramid a hierarchy of laws that's a state law um so you know all applications have to comport with RSIS it's not something that a local ordinance can can trump you >> no no I understand you can't trump to

421
02:10:50.320 --> 02:11:07.280
say that it would work I'm saying on the opposite end what planning board have a duty or at least at least a a authority to say well that doesn't make sense for us. >> No. So what what happens is that the the planning board their sole jurisdiction is to enforce terms of the ordinance.

422
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The ordinance along with the state regulations and municipal land use law. It kind of compounds. Um but the ordinance requires access points which is what everybody's discussing. Um that's where we're at. the the access points have to comp have to comport with

423
02:11:24.079 --> 02:11:40.800
RSIS because of the hierarchy of law. Um so that there's nothing that the board the board can't make up ordinance level scenarios on a fly without legislative jurisdiction. So like the council would

424
02:11:40.800 --> 02:11:58.000
have to ratify something via ordinance for the planning board to have jurisdiction to enforce it. >> I understand. But this is the what we're discussing here is based on statewide the requirements are statewide. Is there any deviation between one planning board to another or all?

425
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>> No. Every every planning board has to comport with that. >> So when a planning board reviews a plan, what are they taking into account? >> State law. >> State law alone, which is the same for everybody. So all planning boards are following the same state law. They're not taking into account at all the safety or the volume that we're going to

426
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expect from a local level. No, it it's >> talking about different things. >> We can't predict that. >> Yeah. >> The law was passed because the every town had different rules. Some wanted 30 feet, some wanted 20 feet wide. So the the state said, "We're going to have one uniform standard for every residential

427
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development in the state. Period." And that's what we all have to live with. They have to live with. We have to live with it. >> As just one last question, I wanted to know if it was taken. We discussed earlier about whether or not there would be actual occupancy within the basements and discussed that obviously there my

428
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understanding was there is a presumption of occupancy in the basement. It just wouldn't be rentals and I wanted to know what the understanding is of how many residents would be in each one of these homes. U if we're accounting that there will be further occupancy within the basement as well. The only standard that

429
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the board can consider is you have to have adequate parking for the number of bedrooms >> and how many bedrooms are allowed >> comply with that. We the the general >> said five. I think you said five >> said that we have three on-site parking

430
02:13:21.119 --> 02:13:38.320
spaces which would conform with five, but Ian Gordon did say that if we dev if we had more, we'd have to provide more on-site parking. But that's all that >> wouldn't that also affect the traffic study and wouldn't that affect the entire element if there were more people? >> We don't think so. No. Um again, just

431
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remember number one is the county has jurisdiction over this road, not the town. And uh we've designed it to comply with all of the laws. So that's all we can do. >> When you say but isn't there an estimate of how many people how many bedrooms?

432
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You mentioned five bedrooms per unit, but now you're saying there may be more bedrooms. And if there's more bedrooms, >> there may be less. >> I doubt that. But if there's going to be more than five bedrooms per unit, then that doesn't impact any of the studies. >> John, can you I I I can't. That's not a

433
02:14:11.280 --> 02:14:27.440
legal issue. So I have to defer traffic engine. >> I'm sorry. Give me that question. >> I just wanted to know if the >> there were more than five bedrooms, >> we'd have to supply more parking. And what would that also affect the traffic study? >> Not necessarily. The bedrooms would probably be for children that don't have

434
02:14:27.440 --> 02:14:42.400
aren't required. >> So why do I need more parking? If they're for children, they don't drive. >> Requirement that the state requires from us >> and it doesn't ask them. I I really don't know. It's a good question. >> That state law that we're talking about, they have the parking stand. >> The state has the state establishes the

435
02:14:42.400 --> 02:14:58.239
parking standards. It's a good question. We probably don't need it. So it seems that these the entire conversation we're having today is really whether or not this conforms with state, not whether or not it makes sense, not whether or not any of these things are physically going to happen. You're >> saying regulations don't make sense.

436
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>> Well, they they don't it's not a one-sizefits-all, obviously, right? Every area is different. So we're not here to discuss whether or not it makes sense at this local level. We're here to just confirm that it conforms with the state and in that regard it does. We are here to make sure that the plans as they've been designed from my

437
02:15:14.480 --> 02:15:30.239
perspective by Mr. Bordon and Mr. McFarland conform to the state regulations and the county regulations and they do. That's all I can do. Thank you. one uh was that uh one one last question I just wanted

438
02:15:30.239 --> 02:15:46.400
to know is the um it's been come up a couple times of how fascinating it is that this is a um an application with no I'm sorry what was the terminology used variance a variance free application and how fascinating it is and I wanted to know there's obviously a far more

439
02:15:46.400 --> 02:16:01.920
densely populated uh uh uh community than you have throughout and has there been any discussion as to how something like this could have been created within this one specific area not having any precedent for that and the fact that it

440
02:16:01.920 --> 02:16:19.280
happens to be a variant free application whereas otherwise it would have required a lot of variance was there any previous conversations that perhaps would have required public approval >> that's that's a conversation you want to have with the township council so this this is just the board enforcing an

441
02:16:19.280 --> 02:16:34.880
overlay zone which is what the ordinance is for right. So, so we don't, you know, don't get into the spirit and intent of the ordinance creation with the people that didn't create the ordinance, right? So, that's something that you want to talk to the council about.

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>> Okay. Thank you. >> Anyone else? >> Seeing no one come forward, I move to close the public cross-examination on this application. Sullivan >> second. Hela. >> All in favor? I

443
02:16:53.359 --> 02:17:12.319
>> explain the second. >> Okay. So, now we're going to open up to general comment. Uh, everybody's going to be restricted to four minutes. Uh, this is a time in which you can put your opinions and um comments on the record. Uh, this is not cross-examination. It's

444
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just regular comment period. >> And with that, I'd like to make a motion to open the public comment portion of this application. Sullivan. Second. >> All in favor? >> I. >> All right. Please feel free to come forward now and make your comments.

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>> All right. Please raise your right hand. Do you swear or affirm to tell the truth, the whole truth, nothing but the truth? >> Yes. >> All right. Please state your name. >> The microphone. Please >> just lift it up. You're tall. Thank you. >> Eli Newman. Nu man-n six Kevin Clark. Um, couple questions. Uh, number one is

446
02:17:50.399 --> 02:18:06.160
I stood up here three years ago and I stood up here three years ago in 2023 and um, I guess you can say fought against the very underhanded land swap that happened with this developer. um uh certain

447
02:18:06.160 --> 02:18:24.559
things that um we were told off the record that this was supposed to be a for school development because the developer received land on Leville Road that was opposed that were there was a a tract on Leville Road that was approved for schools that the

448
02:18:24.559 --> 02:18:40.479
township people who lived in that area did not want the township then land swap for this property under the uh like I said off the record assumption that and I'm an Orthodox Jew so I can state this you Jews want schools closer

449
02:18:40.479 --> 02:18:57.760
to you. Um and we turn around 3 years later obviously um there's no official notification that needs to go out for a master plan. Um it went from an industrial zoning. I've been living here for 12 years. It's been woods for probably 60. Um went from an industrial

450
02:18:57.760 --> 02:19:13.200
zone to a uh affordable housing overlay. We're not talking about 120 homes. Um, that's, you know, just number one to take into account with that very underhanded land swap, which I believe is still in Supreme Court. If I'm not mistaken, two of the lots last I had

451
02:19:13.200 --> 02:19:31.040
seen were still in dispute um that were not actually the property of the developer at the time. That would be number one. Number two is the um the very nice design of whether it's one or two um community centers. Um we all know

452
02:19:31.040 --> 02:19:46.319
what it's going to be used for. It's going to be used as a synagogue. Um tell me how 6,000 ft I believe it was 120 homes times somebody before mentioned the six kids per home, 720 people. How are we

453
02:19:46.319 --> 02:20:08.000
fitting? I'll go I'll go low. 500 um residents. How are they fitting into a 6,000 foot res um property? Um and um you know, we can talk money or not, but essentially the land swap, what happened was the township gave this

454
02:20:08.000 --> 02:20:23.040
developer, what is this, 30 plus acres, I believe it was, and he gave them about 20. You're talking about at my most conservative estimate um $150 million for this project. Um, you take 108 single family homes, those will be sold

455
02:20:23.040 --> 02:20:40.160
at a minimum of $1.2 million. Plus, you have the affordable housing, which somebody actually mentioned before. Is there some sort of a lottery for that? How does that go? Is that statemandated? Is that city mandated? Is that township mandated? Who's in charge of who's in charge of that lottery? >> State. >> State mandated. And nobody's in charge of it. I mean, it's state. There's no

456
02:20:40.160 --> 02:20:56.560
state. There's nobody there's nobody who's uh >> no local people are in charge of that. >> Understood. Well, I think there is a third party administrator that goes through the tax office. I forget exactly how >> they have to apply and qualify.

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>> Right. Last but not least, I uh I have a office building over in Lake and um actually hired Mr. Alfieri over here to try to attempt to help me. um it came to no fruition, but I I I'm seeing less um

458
02:21:11.439 --> 02:21:28.479
backlash here um for a proposed 120 development, 120 home development or whatever the numbers are on a completely forested property than I was given by again different township. Understood. I was attempting to put a single office in a commercial building in a commercial

459
02:21:28.479 --> 02:21:45.040
space. Um I still have not been able to. I've owned that property for almost four years now. And um that's just some food for thought. You know, we can have neighboring townships, neighboring properties. I can put an office in a commercial setting and you can have here

460
02:21:45.040 --> 02:22:02.560
120 homes in a forested space. >> Thank you. >> Thank you, sir. >> Madam Chair. >> Yes. >> I have a question for the applicant. I know there's been some testimony about the clubhouse and some insinuations and stuff. Would the applicant stipulate it will not be used for a house of worship?

461
02:22:02.560 --> 02:22:18.479
>> Yes, because >> I know it can't be, but would you stipulate to it too? Yes, >> just to clarify the records. >> Thank you. >> One one of the things I wanted to mention is there are things we can do, there are things we can consider and there are things we have not the ability

462
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to consider. I understand your concerns, but that is not something the board those things that you brought up are things the board cannot consider in its deliberations. They're your opinion. We respect them. We're happy to hear them, but we can't

463
02:22:34.640 --> 02:22:48.880
consider them. Please. >> All right. >> For comment, I got to swear. >> Yeah. Yeah. Yeah. >> Different comment. >> Okay. >> Do you swear affirm tell the whole truth, nothing but the truth? >> Yes. >> And just reaffirm your name and address.

464
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David Pollock 2 P L A CK 208 White Road. I would just like to get back to the safety issue that was discussed before. Um so my house is right outside of where that ingress and eress is going to be on White Road. Um

465
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it's public record and no secret that there was a tragic incident in our neighborhood a few years ago. Uh one of our community members lost her life on White Road uh because of the traffic that's there. Uh she was everybody in the community knew her. Um she was on

466
02:23:22.720 --> 02:23:39.520
White Road and a car came and hit her and she tragically passed away. Uh it's something that we carry with us. Um we've also had unfortunately many car accidents in the neighborhood because of White Road. Um I can tell you personally I slow down to pull into my driveway. I

467
02:23:39.520 --> 02:23:55.200
get beeps because I'm going too slow. Um the speed limit currently is about 40 to 45 miles an hour which is very high. Is that something that how would that be addressed? Is that something that uh >> this the county level? So so what happens is the county has a traffic

468
02:23:55.200 --> 02:24:11.920
department. If you want to address a speed limit on a county road, you they have public meetings just like we do. So you you would go to a county public meeting um and you would go up to the podium and address it. I mean you probably want to contact the department beforehand and just say, "Hey, listen. you know, this these are my concerns.

469
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Who do I speak to? There's probably a head of a department or something like that you can speak to. Um, and then they'll weigh their decision and just like any other board, you know, do it like that. >> Thank you. So, I would just want to further point out that on White Road, besides for this tragic incident that we

470
02:24:28.319 --> 02:24:43.040
happened, and my point of saying this is to say that it's a reality. It's not an exaggeration. Someone unfortunately lost their life. Uh there are many bus stops currently on White Road and because it's a very straight road from Cross Street all the way to Whitesville, people tend to speed on it. That's why there's

471
02:24:43.040 --> 02:24:58.080
constantly police officers parked right outside of my house across the street. I silently cheer whenever they uh catch people. Uh but there's no question that I'm sure there's a record of it about how many uh you know traffic tickets are given out because of the speed that we

472
02:24:58.080 --> 02:25:13.680
can see just how dangerous that road is because of how straight it is between cross and whites. The bus stops that are on the corner of Linda and White there's no um there's no crosswalk and there are plenty of people that need to cross

473
02:25:13.680 --> 02:25:28.960
White Road in order to get to the other side to be able to wait for their bus stop. There's no stop sign there. There's no crosswalk. And there are constantly children walking across the street. I have personally ran into the street to pull a child out of the middle

474
02:25:28.960 --> 02:25:44.399
because he thought that it was clear and he was crossing and there was a car coming. So, not only have we had incidents, but potential incidents unfortunately is something that is relatively common. So, the board was saying before that they're trying to

475
02:25:44.399 --> 02:26:00.319
work in our interests, which I appreciate to say that it's safer to have the two entrances and that might be better for the potential development that's going to be built, but for the current residents, there is no question, and I I understand that you've been there before, and I appreciate that, but we live there every single day, and I

476
02:26:00.319 --> 02:26:16.479
see what happens. And there's no sidewalk on that road. There's only on one side. and the amount of times that I have seen potential disasters happening. I've my heart has skipped beats multiple times because of that. And that's something that I just wanted to bring up

477
02:26:16.479 --> 02:26:32.640
as a real concern that the residents have that if there is going to be access onto White Road. I don't want to think about what can potentially happen only because I've seen it in the past and I hope that history doesn't repeat itself and hope that everybody will be safe. But I'm asking the board to take that

478
02:26:32.640 --> 02:26:48.960
into consideration to understand that there's a real concern from the residents about the safety of our community >> and we appreciate that and and of course we think about it but we also have to follow the laws and we're required to consider certain things and one of those

479
02:26:48.960 --> 02:27:05.520
things cannot be traffic. We can't. But you can and you should approach the county. We have no control. Jackson Township has no control over this particular road. This is a county

480
02:27:05.520 --> 02:27:22.800
road. So, I think you should get get a group, go to the county and express your concerns. It's important. >> I appreciate that. But I believe the board did say earlier that they did have control over where that access can be. So, if the access would not be there, then that is something that the board

481
02:27:22.800 --> 02:27:38.319
can control. It >> look at the plan. It is one of the best plans we're ever going to see. If you sat where we sit, I've lived in this town for 55 years.

482
02:27:38.319 --> 02:27:54.640
I've been on this board for 10. This is one of the best plans we will ever see because it fulfills all the needs of a properly constructed community. >> And I appreciate that. But I would also say from my vantage point, come to White

483
02:27:54.640 --> 02:28:09.280
Road and see the safety concerns that we have. >> I drove there several times. I drive there all the time. So I understand your your concern. I use White Road because I find it's much easier than using Cross

484
02:28:09.280 --> 02:28:25.359
Street. So I I I understand there's cops. >> I I'm cautious cautious. But and I see what's there. But that doesn't mean that I as a board member can take that into consideration when casting a vote

485
02:28:25.359 --> 02:28:47.920
because I need to vote based on the law and what the law requires me to to look at. >> That's not one of the things. >> Also, if you could consider the safety of the residents going into your vote. Thank you. >> Thank you. >> All right. Do you swear or affirm? Tell

486
02:28:47.920 --> 02:29:03.040
the truth, the whole truth, nothing but the truth. >> Yes. >> All right. And just reaffirm your name and address. >> Araham Mandelbound. M- an E- Lau 155 White Road. >> So, first just want to say thank you. This has been tremendously eye opening

487
02:29:03.040 --> 02:29:20.000
to how the machine that is government works. I appreciate that and the back and forth in the conversation. Um, with that said, I want to sound like a broken record and focus on the traffic. Oh, sorry. better. All right. White Road is simply not equipped to handle this kind of volume.

488
02:29:20.000 --> 02:29:34.399
I get it. It makes sense on paper. It looks really attractive on the screen. It's just simply the reality is like the previous uh speaker said, it's just not it's not able to sustain this level of traffic. The speed limit again is 40

489
02:29:34.399 --> 02:29:50.319
miles an hour. Rarely obeyed. Everyone in this room that lives there could could attest to that. There's constantly close calls. Um like the previous speaker said on fee in February 22, a really favorite person of our

490
02:29:50.319 --> 02:30:05.359
community was struck and killed on White Road because of the high speed and the no crosswalks on that side of this development. Um put 118 homes. Again, I'm one of those people that has children that have to cross White Road to get to their bus stop. So I

491
02:30:05.359 --> 02:30:22.160
understand my personal, you know, relationship to this need, but in reality, it's an impossible ask to allow me to to have me allow my children who are grade school age to cross a what is a highway during the day, especially in

492
02:30:22.160 --> 02:30:38.960
the morning rush and the afternoon rush after school. Uh the ask is straightforward. The developer, the representatives for the developer all agreed that there is access to Maplehurst and from Mapleh. I understand it looks amazing on paper. I'm not arguing that. But the reality is

493
02:30:38.960 --> 02:30:55.760
if it's possible to vacate the development to Maplehurst, which hits Cross, which is apparently going to be in 2035, capable of handling this type of traffic, um that would be tremendous. Again, we're

494
02:30:55.760 --> 02:31:12.240
we're obviously not a very aggressive group of people tonight here. we're looking to work with the developer um and not against and you know railroad any any plans that have have gone into it. Um so we appreciate the time, appreciate the consideration and again I

495
02:31:12.240 --> 02:31:29.040
I can't underscore enough how it I'm sure from your vantage point it does look fantastic and it's very easy to get an application very easy to appreciate a variancefree application but the reality is that it's not necessarily just about the people that are going to live there. There's plenty of people, myself

496
02:31:29.040 --> 02:31:47.840
included, who have called that area home for more than 10 years and appreciate the suburban area, suburban nature of it. >> Thank you, sir. >> All right. Please raise your right hand. Do you swear or affirm to tell the truth, the whole truth, but and nothing but the truth? >> Yes.

497
02:31:47.840 --> 02:32:04.800
>> Right. Please state your name and spell your last for the record. >> Joseph Cutler, 8 Kevin Court. >> Is the board >> the the secretary didn't get your name, sir? First, I'd like to go on the record >> if you could just one more time for the

498
02:32:04.800 --> 02:32:20.479
>> first I'd like to go on the record by saying that I pose a development in its current application. I think the site is too small and the density this will bring the neighborhood which has 70 homes over 150 acres to now put more

499
02:32:20.479 --> 02:32:35.280
homes than the entire neighborhood in 40 acres. it doesn't match the neighborhood and it will add a lot of density and it's not in character with the entire neighborhood. I would like to ask the board if they are able to consider those

500
02:32:35.280 --> 02:32:52.640
type of facts that even if the application looks good on paper, if it doesn't belong in the neighborhood, if it's dangerous and if the residents don't like it, is that a factor that the planning board is allowed to consider? So it

501
02:32:52.640 --> 02:33:09.920
the planning board has to act on what's presented to it. So so the plans that are sent in, the testimony that's provided, the expert testimony, operations, planning, engineering, traffic, everything like that. That's what the

502
02:33:09.920 --> 02:33:25.200
board has to weigh, right? So the the board when looking at it, there's different standards for different requests are being made. In this situation, there's no variances. There's uh two waivers. Uh the waivers have their own minimal legal test, but the

503
02:33:25.200 --> 02:33:41.920
board has to determine those. But that's at the planning board level. That's what's being presented. Um so that's what the board has to weigh. Um that's how the board preserves its integrity. It's how it stays out of litigation and doesn't get overturned. Um, so that's

504
02:33:41.920 --> 02:33:57.439
what the board has to do. >> Now, considering the impact this will have on the neighborhood for the next generation, the generation after that, wouldn't it be appropriate for the board to say, "Hey, it seems like the developer and the residents agree that

505
02:33:57.439 --> 02:34:13.040
if we remove the access point to White Road would make everyone happier, considering the long-term impact this will have on us. Wouldn't it be prudent for the board to table the application for the next hearing, allow us to discuss with the developer? I don't believe that that point was fully

506
02:34:13.040 --> 02:34:30.000
fleshed out. This will have an impact on us forever and to tell us that we can't wait one more meeting and have the chance to discuss this properly. I don't think that's fair and I would ask the board if they could consider that request. >> So, a couple of different things. The the board doesn't have the jurisdiction

507
02:34:30.000 --> 02:34:47.439
to table an application, right? So the applicant does, right? And there's something called the the automatic approval time frame that's involved. So unless a waiver is provided, what happens is that the board

508
02:34:47.439 --> 02:35:02.800
an application will be deemed technically complete and approved um if we go beyond that period of time. So the board jurisdictionally has time frames we have to abide by that's within the municipal land use law. So, so we

509
02:35:02.800 --> 02:35:19.200
have a very stringent period of time to take an action within unless that's waved and put off, right? So, by the applicant, right? So, it's not in our we can't just arbitrarily tell an applicant, hey, we don't like your

510
02:35:19.200 --> 02:35:35.280
application. We're going to punt you six months, right? We we there's very strict time frames written into statutory requirements that the board has to comport with once an application is deemed complete. So that's one issue that we constantly bump into. Um the

511
02:35:35.280 --> 02:35:51.120
other one is the fact that if it goes to court in a situation like that, it would be deemed approved, right? So we have it's kind of careful what you wish for type of situation. Um and it's deemed approved based upon what's presented at

512
02:35:51.120 --> 02:36:09.359
the time of of the application. So the board has the application. We have to weigh the expert testimony um that is provided at the time of the hearing based upon the legal tests that are required at the time that the decision has to be made and you know that's what

513
02:36:09.359 --> 02:36:25.760
deliberations are for. >> Understood. Considering that the applicant is asking for several design waivers, would that be something that would give the board the legal >> ability to say no just to those waivers? that would allow us to go to the next hearing which would then give us time to talk to the developer and see if we can

514
02:36:25.760 --> 02:36:41.760
come up to something that we >> not how it works. So the the legal tests have to be decided at the time of the decision in the application. So the legal tester I mean for a waiver it's that of reasonleness right so it's a very low standard um practility

515
02:36:41.760 --> 02:36:56.960
reasonleness I can kind of get into that but that's what the legal standard is so the board can't render a determination and then punt it they if you know if we're based upon the approval time frame pursuant to the municipal land use law

516
02:36:56.960 --> 02:37:13.359
that's clipping off today's the day of the hearing unless you know otherwise by the applicant and it's tonight. You know, >> by law, is the board allowed to say that we don't need and want that second access point away? And but I'm asking a

517
02:37:13.359 --> 02:37:27.200
different question. I wonder if the board has the legal authority. >> So So we're kind of we're we're getting into question and comment period and this is just general comment, but the the basic fundamentals of this is that the ordinance itself requires two access

518
02:37:27.200 --> 02:37:44.080
points. the access points as provided with the plan that was presented that the board has to determine whether or not it comports with the ordinance requirements and that that's their decision at the time of deliberation. Right. We can't do that preemptively.

519
02:37:44.080 --> 02:38:00.439
It's got to be at the time of deliberation. >> Right. >> Madam Chair, I have a question for Ernie Peters. >> Mr. Peters, this is under the new affordable housing ordinance. Is correct? HR4 I believe.

520
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>> So the high density the gentleman is referring to is by ordinance and and not trying to blame other people but it's part of the affordable housing act that we had to respond to from the state. Correct. >> The short answer to your question is yes. The long answer to your question is

521
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I don't know what the legislative intent that the master plan committee or the the folks who prepared the ordinance or the affordable housing planner who put the ordinance together were. But the short answer to your question was yes. >> Yes. It's part of the affordable housing now. That's where you get the density

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from. Thank you. >> Please raise your right hand. Do you swear affirm, tell the truth, the whole truth, nothing but the truth? >> I do. >> All right. And just reaffirm your name and address with the board secretary. T I S C H L E R 202 Y Road. So my house

523
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is right outside the uh southern um exit entrance way. So my house is the I guess you want to call it coming from Linda is the last house before all the houses get set back. What's going to happen? What at least I see is 40 miles an hour down

524
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the street. People are trying to go in and out of that thing, zipping in or or trying to cut across. Next thing I know, I'm going to have car in my front yard. My kids are playing in the front yard playing ball, enjoying the outdoors, and all I'm going to have a god forbid one

525
02:39:24.319 --> 02:39:40.240
of my kids are going to get hit by a car. Not in the street on my front yard. I mean, I would think you would take that into consideration, right? We like the outdoors. We like the trees. like the kids playing outside and playing sports, not playing video games, frying their brains. We want kids playing

526
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outside. Now, that's another fear with that access point that my kids is possibility that a car is going to try to zip in and zip out, skid out, run into my front yard. There is no little maybe 30 feet and then there's a street.

527
02:39:57.040 --> 02:40:15.280
I would ask the board to consider revising that whole entire if if you are going to go and go ahead with that um entrance and exit point maybe make it that you could only go in from one side out from the other side as in putting a

528
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>> some some sort of median in in between. I know. I don't know if that's a question and answer thing, but is that something that the board could >> the goal >> that would be the county rig? That's what we said before. >> Well, it's not it's not a county road. That's the you would give that's an access to their development that's in

529
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their development, >> but it's also the access from White Road. So, the county would be controlling that entire intersection. >> Correct. Mr. S. >> And and >> if we make You're saying make it a one-way street. Is that what you're not a one not a one-way street as in a some

530
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sort of uh middle of median. So basically you would only going in toward I guess you going going toward Lakewood you get into the development and then going away from Lakewood going down into Jackson's River Whitesill area >> you would make a another entry point.

531
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So, >> well, that would require one-way streets within this. >> It's not a one-way. It's it's a two-way, but just the access point is a oneway. >> That as in >> I don't know how you could do that, >> but the county would I understand what you're saying, but the county would

532
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control whether we could make an entrance one way or two ways. That's up to them, not us. So, if they feel that >> it's it's an it's an in and out. That means you would have it in and have an out of the same exact entrance. All you would do is be putting a median to slow the access out. >> Speaking of the boulevard, if that's I

533
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don't know if that's what you're saying. Just put >> almost like an on-ramp and an offramp, but like not not really. There's more of a turning on and turning. >> Right. So, couple things. First, um this is kind of cross-examination questions, >> right? So, I was asking is that something that the board >> Second Well, the board has no

534
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jurisdiction over that. >> Okay, that's >> right. So the county would so if you want to contact a county say that you know you would like this to be included or under consideration or whatever that would be the proper jurisdiction for that >> and and um would

535
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crosscontamination cross cross um examination also asking the board questions or that's >> pretty much Yeah. Yeah. But is is there a way um for Linda and all those streets to be is there a way to for the board to be able to um recommend that the

536
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>> board the board doesn't make recommendations to the county? >> Not to the county but to the Linda is not a county road >> but the the access point is so >> the whole road is not >> right. >> We're only here we're only here to

537
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discuss this application. We can't discuss the other streets. Got it. >> We can only discuss this application tonight. >> Thank you. >> All right. Please raise your right hand. You swear affirm to tell the truth, the whole truth, nothing but the truth. >> I do.

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>> All right. Please state your name and reaffirm for the board secretary. >> Uh Earl, last name E R L A N G E R. Uh 16 Linda Drive. I just want to go on record u that I oppose the plan as designed. Uh I moved

539
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to Jackson because we wanted the nature, we wanted the trees, we wanted the lot, we wanted the open air, we wanted the house per acre, not such a development. I grew up in New York. I lived in Lakewood. Had enough of the over development. So I definitely came here

540
02:43:31.359 --> 02:43:47.760
for that. Um, for the record, I actually also rent right now on White Road, 169 White Road, which actually backs um, right there, one of those homes of that I'm renting right now. Um, so I'm curious about the displacing the wildlife. That's something that I

541
02:43:47.760 --> 02:44:03.359
appreciate looking out the window and seeing deer and whatnot going on there. I don't I I understand it's not within your jurisdiction to review that, right? It's not something you're against. >> The board cannot deny an application on solely on environmental. >> Got it. Um, so that's a concern.

542
02:44:03.359 --> 02:44:18.399
Obviously, the traffic has been raised enough here that that's a huge concern uh in terms of a a throughway the whole White Road Linda as well. Um, and just the quality of life for uh the neighborhood will go down. Just the fact

543
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somebody mentioned earlier that our lots are zoned at I believe it's an acre. Most of the properties are an acre on our the Kensington Manor neighborhood. Uh, and this is, I think, a quarter of an acre or something like that. Um, which seems unfair. Seems like it doesn't match the rest of the neighborhood, but again, I understand

544
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it's >> affordable housing zone, right? >> No, I understand that. Yeah. >> Um, so that's it. Appreciate your time. Appreciate. >> Thank you. Thanks, guys. >> Right. Please raise your right hand. Do you swear? Affirm tell the truth, the whole truth, and nothing but the truth. >> Yes. >> All right. And reaffirm your name and

545
02:44:52.560 --> 02:45:08.960
address with our board secretary. >> Su Tisher. last name tee her 148 white road Jackson New Jersey I'm just wondering is it possible to make that a one-way entrance to only go in >> so

546
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first of all all done with cross-examining the board secondly um this is public comment period so if you have a public comment >> you recommend that >> my recommendation would be go to the county and talk to somebody at the county that's the proper jurisdiction

547
02:45:24.319 --> 02:45:39.439
for Even though this road is not owned by the county, >> the access point is control. >> Access point is owned by whoever is developing. >> No, the access points controlled by the county, >> but it but it's you're who's developing it.

548
02:45:39.439 --> 02:45:54.319
>> That doesn't matter. The county determines how cars should >> someone decide someone decided that it should be a two-way road. >> Someone who developed it. >> The c the county is the is the ultimate decider of how everything flows. If if

549
02:45:54.319 --> 02:46:08.399
you link up to a county road, that's why I'm telling you the proper place to do this is at the county. So, you want to contact the county division responsible for this, give them your name, contact information, all that and do it. This is

550
02:46:08.399 --> 02:46:24.319
the only avenue you have, right? Because the board has no control over that. >> So, what does the board have control? >> We have control over the ordinance, right? So, the the board implements the ordinance as written. That's the quasi judicial authority given to us by the

551
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state. That's what happens. >> Thank you. Anyone else coming forward? >> Seeing no one else come forward, I uh move to close the public um uh public testimony portion of this application. Sullivan

552
02:46:40.319 --> 02:46:57.120
>> second. >> All in favor? >> I. >> So, thank you all for your time. Uh very briefly, a variance, as we've heard many times, is a variance free application. The board has the legal authority to review an application based upon the

553
02:46:57.120 --> 02:47:13.680
township's ordinances that are in place today. We we can't question why an ordinance was created. That's not what the role of this board is. We comply with every provision of the ordinance except for the two waivers. We believe we presented adequate testimony to support those waivers. The county has

554
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exclusive jurisdiction of the roadway. We comply with the residential site improvement standards and we've already talked about the law of what the limitation what this board can consider for off-site traffic conditions. Uh we've agreed to address all the technical comments contained within the

555
02:47:29.040 --> 02:47:50.000
board professionals report professional reports and therefore request that the board approve the application with the stipulations we've made on the record. >> Mr. Mr. Peters. >> All right. So, just so the board is

556
02:47:50.000 --> 02:48:06.319
aware, um, this would be a vote for a variance-free application with two waivers. The waiver standard is out of reasonleness and practicability in light of the ordinance. Um I believe that they're only for landscaping

557
02:48:06.319 --> 02:48:22.479
um trees, landscaping, things of that nature that's contained in the forester report. Um and that is you know along with all the conditions that we imposed on the applicant tonight. Um and that would be what the board is voting on tonight.

558
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>> Any uh discussion from board members? >> I'll look for a uh motion, please. I'd like to make a motion. It's been a long night. I really appreciate the public speaking the way they did. I think it was respectful to the board, to the applicant, to our professionals, and everybody. I really thank the public for

559
02:48:41.520 --> 02:48:58.399
speaking like they did. This is one of those applications that we have an oath we take about following municipal annual law and the ordinances. And that's what we have to comply with. It stands out, and I know you're tired of hearing it, that there's no variances. We don't see that too often. You have two waiverss about trees.

560
02:48:58.399 --> 02:49:14.000
the internal circulation and I sat on this board many many years and so did Miss Campbell, Dr. Campbell, I have not seen an internal circulation this solid in a long time both for fire and everything else. Uh you start you're

561
02:49:14.000 --> 02:49:30.080
talking about changing or turning it down for RSIS standards. The problem with that we turn down an application for state guidelines or state rules. you might as well give the applicant everything they want plus more because

562
02:49:30.080 --> 02:49:46.319
they'll win it in court. So, we have to comply with the laws of the state and our ordinances. And this applicant, my opinion, has proved all that. I make a motion to approve. >> I'll um second that motion, Sullivan. And I'll also add that uh while I do

563
02:49:46.319 --> 02:50:00.640
sympathize with the neighbors, I want to thank them for coming up here and being very respectful and uh airing their their concerns in a proper way. Um, unfortunately under state law, we are not allowed to take into consideration

564
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the traffic issues facing White Road. I do uh think that if people want to see some changes made to White Road, they should go to the county and um request those changes be made. But with that, this is a conforming application. It is

565
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a very well put together application. The circulation pattern inside uh the development is, as Mr. Brezie said, probably one of the best we've seen in a very long time. Uh and with that, I second the motion to approve.

566
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>> Roll call, please. >> Mr. Brezie, >> as I stated, yes, >> Mr. Heler, >> yes. >> Mr. Parks, >> I vote yes. >> Mr. Rogers. >> I would also like to encourage the residents to go to the county >> and my vote is yes.

567
02:50:51.520 --> 02:51:07.359
>> Mr. Sullivan. >> Yes. >> Dr. Campbell. >> Yes. And I would encourage the people who spoke tonight to come here more often. You did say you learned a great deal and I think that's wonderful. But if you would come more often or at least

568
02:51:07.359 --> 02:51:23.760
zoom us, you would you would understand uh how we are restricted in certain ways. But we welcome you coming and we thank you for coming. Gentlemen, congratulations. Good night. Take a motion. >> I'd like to make a motion to close this

569
02:51:23.760 --> 02:51:33.560
meeting. Sullivan. >> Second. >> All in favor? I