##VIDEO ID:pFalgk-nOVY## e e e e e e e e e I pled aliance to the flag of the United States of America and to the Republic for which it stands one nation under God indivisible with liberty and justice for all all right all right here we go welcome to the Jackson Township planning board it is October 28 uh according to the open public meeting act this meeting has been publicly noticed in all the appropriate forums and methods uh deemed appropriate to conduct this meeting uh and we'll pass it off to our Madame chairwoman good evening everyone um we'll have the roll call please Mr brzy here Mr Bernstein Mr marzo here Mr heler here Mr rker here Miss Rose here Mr trammer Mr weart Mr wall Mr Sullivan here Dr Campbell here um I'll look for a motion for payment of the voucher for the recording secretary please so moved so move Sullivan second brei brei okay uh we'll take a motion for the approval of the minutes of the October 7th regular meeting please so moved Mr brzy yes Mr marzo yes Mr heler yes Mr rker yes Miss Rose yes Mr Sullivan yes Dr Campbell yes and we didn't do a roll call for the voucher payment okay Mr brzy yes Mr marzo yes Mr heler yes Mr rker yes Miss Rose yes Mr Sullivan yes and Dr Campbell uh gentleman any engineering or planning matters thank you um Mr Shay yes uh just to keep the uh everybody in the loop um a meeting was conducted on Friday October 25th between uh fire departments uh zoning engineering uh planning board uh we reviewed the process by which uh for jurisdictional purposes uh Fire reviews their plans looks at the utility plan looks at all different aspects of of uh what they need to approve along the path of not just at the board level but the subsequent approval process afterwards uh I believe it was a productive meeting um I believe that they may be utilizing a new software to uh time and date stamp the the uh the site plans that they are presented uh so it's a little bit little bit of a new process and it'll be um evolving uh as we're going because obviously it's new to everybody also they linked up with the MUA and the township engineer to discuss different aspects of um of of the approval process checklist process um and different aspects by which uh they take a look at um they take a look at what they have to do on their end uh so it's it was a productive meeting uh it's going to be an evolving continuing process uh it's really just to keep everybody updated and it will begin in the new calendar year 2025 this is just beginning this is a it's a preliminary meeting great thank you that's great and I know uh Mr Tremor I'm sorry he's not here but he was very interested in this whole process going forward so that's good um we have a number of resolutions Miss Morrison if you would read those please sure resolution number number 2024-25 resolution of the planning board of the township of Jackson County of ocean state of New Jersey granting preliminary and final major site plan approval with required variances and waver relief for a two-story house of worship with a full basement for 922 heisen LLC block 1204 lot 34 eligible to vote are Mr brei Mr heler Mr Sullivan and Dr Campbell can we get a motion I'll make a motion to approve second all in favor oh we still have to do yeah Mr Brey yes M uh Mr heler yes Mr Solomon yes Dr Campbell yes resolution number 202 4-34 resolution of the planning board of the township of Jackson County of ocean state of New Jersey granting minor subdivision approval with design waivers to adjust the location of existing lot lines for Yehuda alter block 14001 Lots 7 and 3210 eligible to vote are Mr marzo Mr heler Mr rker Miss Rose Mr Sullivan and Dr Campbell motion please motion second rker Mr marzo yes Mr heler yes Mr rker yes M Rose yes Mr Sullivan yes Dr Campbell yes resolution 20 24-35 resolution of the planning board of the township of Jackson County of ocean state of New Jersey granting preliminary and final major site plan approval and preliminary and final major subdivision approval with required variances and design waivers for a new house of worship with accessory Mikvah and two new vacant lots for call Hampshire Hills Inc block 5202 lot one eligible to vote are Mr Brey Mr marzo Mr heler Mr Sullivan and Dr Campbell motion please motion to approve second Mr marzo yes Mr heler yes Mr Sullivan yes and Dr Campbell yes Okay resolution number 20 24-36 resolution of the planning board of the township of Jackson County of ocean state of New Jersey granting preliminary and final major slight plan approval and minor subdivision approval with required variances for the construction of a house of worship for BM OJ Inc block 6401 Lots 21 and 22 eligible to vote are Mr marzo Mr heler Mr rker M Rose Mr Sullivan and Dr Campbell motion please motion to approve second Mr marzo yes Mr heler yes Mr Riker yes Miss Rose yes Mr Sullivan yes and Dr Campbell yes and the last one is resolution number 202 24-37 resolution of the planning board of the township of Jackson County of ocean state of New Jersey granting preliminary and final major site plan approval with required variances and design waivers for the conversion of a residential dwelling to a house of worship for kahila Brookwood 4 block 6002 lot two three and part of one eligible to vote are Mr marzo Mr heler Mr Sullivan and Dr Campbell motion please motion to approve second solivan Mr marzo yes Mr heler yes Mr Solomon yes Dr Campbell yes uh we have some changes to the agenda schedule um it's particularly important that the board pay attention to this uh and the first two are because of the schedule for the township uh reorganization meeting having changed January 6th 2025 reorganization meeting is cancelled we had put that on the agenda previously reorganization meeting is rescheduled for January 13 2025 block 13601 Lots 12 and 13 Bay madash Hope Chapel Inc is carried from tonight to November 18th 2024 with no further notice required block 23001 lot 14 shalva High School Phase 2 is carried from November 4th to December 16th 2024 with notice required block 6501 lot 4202 my address LLC is carried from December 16 2024 to January 13 2025 for scheduling purposes only we need to approve January 13th that one I'm sorry January 13th January 13th should we approve that that yes okay let's uh have a motion on that please I'll make a motion Sullivan second dearo all in favor I I opposed and we can just the others we can do as a group approve them as a group all right let's take a motion on approving those as a group the changes I make a motion Sullivan second demarzo all in favor I I any discussion all right that's approved okay um master plan of report please Mr Marza good evening the master plan subcommittee has received its first draft of the master plan the subcommittee has reviewed and commented on the first half of the master plan and is in the process of completing its full review of the master plan at this time we'll keep you updated thank you thank you this has been a nine months so far we would have thought this baby would have been delivered by now but all right before the normal agenda begins I want to provide the following information to planning board members and the public on October 15th I received the following message from Council president miss chairwoman Campbell as as council president I am formerly requesting that ordinance 33-24 which passed with a 50 vote at the 1011 2024 council meeting be placed on your October 28th agenda for planning board recommendation regarding its consistency with the master plan this is the usual procedure following the first reading of an ordinance related to land use it would seem out of the ordinary to delay this man matter so I kindly ask that this request be placed on your agenda 1028 2024 thank you for your attention to this should you have any further questions please feel free to reach out and I replied with the following the same the next day good day council president you sent me an email October 15th requesting the planning board Place ordinance 33-24 on the agenda for October 28th the planning board has a full schedule for that date and frankly a full addendum through the remainder of the Year additionally we are reaching the completion of a new master plan further encumbering our schedules the planning board volunteer members are dedicated to serving the Jackson Community and to cooperating with the township Council and mayor this application crossed jurisdictional boundaries between the zoning and planning boards on numerous occasions and received multiple approval from both boards the history of this project is extensive and complicated most of the present planning board were not members in 2021 they will need time to familiarize themselves with the history and factual circumstances of the project therefore the board will take advantage of the 35 days from October 15th allotted by Jackson statute 40 col 55d d26a to review all necessary documents mentations resolutions from the Planning and Zoning Board as well as Updates this board and Council agreed upon in 2019 for the master plan review of the 20 2009 master plan two weeks is simply not sufficient time to accomplish this important task before placing the a ordinance on the agenda within a few short months the master board will provide the community and the council with a new master plan a framework that will outline a vision and direction for the next decade with recommendations for the council relative to design of ordinances to support creative intelligent growth that's the end of the reply since the statute allows for 35-day review that will conveniently bring us to November 18th our second November meeting in the meantime at their 20 1020 meeting the council tabled ordinance 3324 since only three present planning board members members reviewed the original relevant project testimony and voted on the resolutions and the same three members were at the 2019 meeting when Mr Peters presented us with the master plan review in order for all members to prepare for the potential of placing the ordinance on our agenda dependent on Council actions tonight after the meeting Mr Shay will provide members with pertinent documents at the November 18th planning board meeting we will hear our planner Mr Peter's recommendations regarding the Township's ordinance's support of the 2009 master plan and the 2019 master plan review and from Mr Shay regarding our obligations then members will vote on the ordinance tonight there will be no testimony nor public comments heard with regard to ordinance 3324 we will continue with our agenda items and hear testimony questions comments on only those two agenda items if you're not interested in the regular meetings we would request that you quietly uh are welcome to leave at this time and we will return we will continue with our regular meeting all right we'll now go uh to Mr alfery good evening Madam chair members of the board salvator alfery clear giobi alfery and Jacobs on behalf of the applicant um we were here in May and initially presented testimony during the course of that testimony several issues were raised one was that Mr CLE sketched out a proposed parking lot we weren't proposing a formal parking lot um and um as a result of those comments a new plan was submitted to the board and um since that time your board professionals have issued new reports based upon the new plans we also submitted a new traffic report dated July 9th which was also incorporated into your professionals report I don't know if you want to hear from them first or we go right into it can um just very quickly Madam chair um Mr May 6 to compal reports applicants applicants team uh addressed the new professionals reports as they relate to the amended layout thank you and and then just one other preliminary comment also revealed at that may hearing was the fact that the applicant had performed some work within the building without permits and we were told clearly do not come back until you have the permits I have copies of the permits here from Electrical Plumbing mechanical and building which I'm going to submit so that the record's clear but he did obtain permit since the May hearing okay um we're going to start with our engineer he was sworn in and qualified at the last hearing all right you swear or affirm the tell the truth the whole truth nothing but the truth I do all right please state your name and spell your last of the record Yuda back BAC k licensed professional engineering good standing in the state of New Jersey all right the board accepts your credentials yes thank you thank you and we welcome back thank you we had submitted um five exhibits I believe u prior to the hearing six exhibits I'm sorry and Anthony if you could start with the existing condition exhibit which I think was marked A1 in the email that was sent is there any way we can rotate it or we can look at it like this too perfect thank you so on the left side that's our existing conditions and demo plan on the right is the Improvement plan um not to go I'll go over quick just what we're dealing with the address is 14 Stu and lane block 7309 lot 7 on site is one story approximately 2,000 foot building um it's a frame dwelling which is to be uh converted to an office there's an inground pool in the back which is proposed to be removed and the shed which is also proposed to be removed um just to get your bearings this is on the right side is Oak Drive on the bottom of the plan is stuan Lane towards the top right is north um the site contains about 20,000 Square ft north and west of the site are residential homes that would be the the opposing side of Oak Drive and the top of the plant over here are both residential homes to the South is an attorney's office and on the other side of stuen Lane is a strip mall we are located in the HC Zone where business offices are listed as a permitted principal use while single family residential homes are not a permitted use um we're seeking minor site plan approval to convert the residential dwelling to a small office no external improvements improvements to the actual building other than a proposed ADA Compliant handicap ramp and a trash enclosure are are proposed I can point that out the handicap ramp will be running from the the ADA compliance space along the side of the deck and then in front of that this little square is the trash enclosure um a parking lot is proposed along the Oak Drive uh along the Oak Drive Frontage on the western portion of the site Standalone parking lot since the basement will be storage only as we testified previously and are testifying again nine spaces are required using one EV credit 10 spaces are proposed which which include a van accessible Ada space and an EV make ready space there um Anthony can you pull up A4 please is just a picture of the stuan lane Frontage all the way on the bottom of the screen you can see there's a little um Landscaping wall a small portion of that wall actually encroaches with onto the right away we are going to remove that portion that is within the RightWay also proposed as a four foot concrete sidewalk and curbing along both the stuan and Oak Drive frontages um as was previously testified there are four bulk variances required all are existing conditions a maximum Corner allow of 45,000 squ ft is required whereas 20,000 is proposed um a minimum corner lot width of 200 ft is required 100 is proposed minimum corner lot Frontage 2 feet is required 100 is proposed and lastly a minimum front yard setback of 60 feet is required whereas 2191 ft is proposed again all of these variances are existing conditions um there are three design waivers which kind of are really one they all apply to the trash enclosure um firstly the trash enclosure in the front yard a trash and cl closure is not allowed to be in the front yard we are proposing it in the front yard because that is the the best location for it with regard to the building and regard to their trash pickup um secondly a trash enclosure opening in direct view of Oak Drive um there will be a gate for this trash enclosure so that when it is closed you cannot see the trash inside and lastly only two sides of the trash enclosure can be landscaped due to the handicap ramp behind it and then the front of it is the gates which can have um Landscaping in front of it there are no environmental concerns associated with this application and we will comply with any comments received from the local environmental commission um with regard to storm water Anthony can you pull up um A1 again again please thank you um the site is considered minor development with regard to storm water since there's less than a quarter acre increase of impervious surface and less than one acre of of disturbance which would mean that no storm water management measures are required nonetheless a storm system capable of storing and infiltrating the two and 10e storm events is proposed and that's delineated on this plan with this shaded in line on the corner bottom left corner of the parking lot um for utilities the existing site is serviced currently serviced with well water and a septic system both of which are to remain um for lighting the parking lot will be lit with one pole mounted light is shown over here um the light can be timed to go off if there are unanticipated offsite lighting impacts for the board engineers's recommendation the light has been placed on the west side of the parking lot and facing the building uh in order to avoid spillage to the neighboring properties for landscaping and and for landscaping there are we we're required a buffer along the south side and the west side there is an existing buffer along here there's a lot of trees and brush there um a little bit lighter but nonetheless there is some trees on on the west side we will uh coordinate with the board professionals to ensure compliance with the Landscaping requirements okay and um there are V report July 29th Owen little report July 22nd and the uh fire officials report you've had an opportunity to review all three of those yes and um if the board would have Grant this approval you would agree to me satisfy the comments and conditions as a as a condition of approval yes okay I and there was a colored rendering I think it was A3 Anthony could you just put up A3 I just since we submitted it we may as well see it that's not helpful that's grass there we go okay so um the color rendering A3 is just generally describe what it depicts the one on the right okay so you can see the building outlined in brown the solid brown color this I don't know what color it is orangish color is the deck this is an existing walkway this is the prop proposed handicap ramp leading to the parking lot again the proposed parking lot which is going to provide the nine spaces thank you that's all we have of the engine engineer Madam chair comments gentlemen I know the board has comments but be before uh I turn it over to you Mr re may I just say without belaboring the point we've had to to hear this twice there's no reason we should have had to hear this twice it should have been brought to us in this kind of condition the first time as you know we have a very full schedule and to have to have spent time twice on this project a small project for sure but it it takes time and uh it's been quite distressing on our part Mr rker front well not front bottom left corner of the screen it's over here pretty old a seage pit I believe the applicant will testify we have a statement of operations um and we do have to get Board of Health approval yes um SE well it says the office will have seven employees I only have nine paring places it's more than alcoh bottles trash and you as a professional office I know ex situation system and a swimming pool and one of the sources of my not FR frustration anger is this African has been using this property for about three years I was there twice Asm and there was a hell of a lot of children in that PO so I'm confused is it a house or is it an office because at my office we didn't have a swimming pool and we didn't have children so who's using it as a swimming pool when it's a residential structure and you're selling it to me as an office well it's if this is approved all all this app wor a box of how did we get so many children in the pool okay and then when the fire department went over there I got a call from mrman that the three gates are wide open you can walk right into the backyard and go drown yourself so I'm confused are we going to allow an illegal operation and reward an illegal operation with an approval or am I going to look at a house with a pool that has kids in and I and I'm glad got per but I am furious that this app didn't have where all to send out a labor for his meeting clean up place which shows me he not interested anything more than parade for him and heck with everybody else and I don't understand how those children in the backyard in a pool we were using it as an office so where did they come from so I'm going look at this real hard I'm not a Happy Camp you're telling system welcome to 1950 what is our going to do that to bring it up to one 24 standard decides send it to the health department no so the health department does regulate according to for a change for a change of use which is what we're here for we have to we have to apply to the healthcare Department Ocean County healthcare department they review it we have to get certification from them before before we can if it's in good condition we can get it it's a it's we're reducing the the did you look at that house I look at the house yes okay so the windows are foggy it's a dog house not main it's a house from it's not an office build trying to create an office building out of a house a that's a house that is a heal of a house that's in a residential neighborhood that you were trying to work into a commercial property so you're telling me into commer property it's going to be very nice I don't seem very nice I don't have R glasses so let's look at the the nuts in the PSE of this what are we going to do with the besides apply to the Board of Health the Board of Health is the one that regulates and ensures that we are in compliance with 79a which addresses all of your concerns of a seage bit so so there's two options after the inspection so if it's in if it's in a bad condition there's no personally no I have not inspected the system no other than straighten outre can the applicant you have to ask the applicant that can the applicant testify as to the maximum amount of people that will be in that house I know there's only there's eight or nine parking spots seven parking spots so what what what is the maximum amount of people that will be there utilizing the septic system so I can give testimony on that the the use of a of a septic system with regard to commercial use is way way lighter than a residential home always whether it's because of washing machines um um you know trash disposal it's way way way lighter which does make it easier for us to apply to the the health department who then looks it over and ensures that the use is less than the previous use at a minimum they also look it over to make sure that it's in function and condition they will a septic installer will have to go down there and review it and provide a report that says that it's inm compliance with the current standards and if not they'll have to bring it up to the current standards if it's not possible they'll have to replace it with an actual septic system not a seage pit as you know they can't do seage pits anymore and and to answer your question the um the statement of operation says the office has seven employees the employees alternate their time between the office and out of state they are all not in the office at the same time during the week but there are seven employees So in theory I guess it's possible that seven might be there at one time okay so there and we will um seven employees but uh will any customers be from what from what was testified last time rarely does anyone visit but um we could have the applicant come up and supplement that testimony um but back to the original Point um twofold I have a response number one is you're really supposed to look at the application before you I understand that there may things happening or have happened in the past that you're not happy with but you're here to look at the application whether it complies with the ordinances of the town so I just want to keep that in mind secondly It's Not Unusual to get the Outside Agency approvals after the board approves an application so the Board of Health and any other Outside Agency approvals we need to get would be the next step if the board were to Grant approval tonight so Madam chair yes sir I'd like to not the agree with the applicant but from my personal experience SE system with expansions and building and stuff I had to go through yes I had to get clearance from them and yes cost a lot of money to do what they wanted and increase um and it is an application process that is followed that you have to get it from the Board of Health and I understand this may or may not work I'm not going to say it is or is not and if it doesn't it can't be replaced the same way but that has to come from the Board of Health I definitely concur with that thank you may may I ask a question you did um comply with something we had requested you were going to leave the pool now you are removing the pool removing the pool yes when you remove a pool it is not an easy process how are how are you going to go about that what are you going to use as fill and how are you going to be assured that there won't be depression uh what kind of lot are you putting in there I I only know how to I don't even know how to vacuum a pool never mind answer that question but yeah hopefully the engineer done both both I both put in a pool which took tons of time and been in a house where a pool was removed and one of the problems that we had when the pole was removed is that there was compression and and a divot in our in our yard I understand and whether it's a pool or any other structure that has to be excavated and then filled I the only suggestion I can have is that we would have to work with whomever is inspecting at the town to make sure whatever's installed is compacted properly and can withstand the paving for the parking lot we we have ordinances on the type of fill that can be used it can't be just something from up the street so I hope you're going to uh make sure that's in the resolution appropriate fill you may sir thank you we met on May 6 and your guy wiggled a b and I would have thought that he got message we decided we were going to ENT have a and all that and trash try toell this office before appc Labor clean up place so you're going to get the bad neighbor if we're going to sit here and go through all this and you're going to tell us what you're going to do it's going to be a great building and then I go out there and just asash as on County well guess what got a problem I'm not worried about what I'm worried about is how do we get you from a r old home 1950 to an office you know we vial with this quite a bit and I'll go back to another project which was the the uh that dog in the house been sitting there weeds up to my Bel and never got any better this one is in worse shape windows are frosted drapes are up and down garbage around it but it's okay to go swimming and I don't understand why this afri believes is here this is the home that you're using without theer approval and the guy is not smart enough to stop using CL the so why do we need a de want an office build how do we make this office building an office build that we don't have to up the road whatever get a how do we go about this well the the deck um portion of it's for the handicap ramp correct yeah and then the doors are above grade so you need some sort of Landing the deck is pretty new I was out there also I I guess I just missed it today um it was it's pretty new it seems a shame to take it out I agree with you that removing the pool is absolutely necessary to make it look like a an office building act like an office building um the deck is towards the rear of the property it's not you don't see it from the street really you you see a landing I walk into your office building St I know I'm in an office building looking well we we have our architect here and he could perhaps come up when he testified months six months too late he been doing for months he obviously testimony well the I can't comment on the property maintenance because because they just can't get it right quote Bad Neighbor how do I know that this gentl is not a bad neighbor can't have somebody come by the weeds down break up the bottles he's got the track EV and all he cares about is six cars in going get work that's not a that's not a business own in my opinion I could be I could be bias in response to your second Point um the intention was to leave the structure so it looks like a house um even though it could function as an office that was the intention even though it's a commercial Zone it's near residences they he felt that that was a better design or view obviously you have a different opinion we did um on May 6 you definitely mentioned Property Maintenance that there's no doubt appearance so how about some assurance that that it will be CLE well let's hope for the best how how about some Assurance well the only assurance we could possibly give is a temporary CE that and would not get a permanent until certain standards are met beyond that sounds like a good idea would the applicant be open to before the CE to a site inspection I have to I have to look at the app part of the yes all right we can work out and you could designate whomever at the town as the part whether it's Doug or the construction off IAL right and we also the other alternative is um when you get back to that photograph is to is to improve the Landscaping up front so that it looks more presentable and I know that the engineer did say there were landscap com grown and you know very overgrown and there were landscape comments that we received that we would comply with as well beyond that um I understand your frustration and we play we play the cards we're dealt sometimes so we're trying to make what we think a commercial use in a commercial zone is the appropriate use it's just a function of getting it to the condition that you're comfortable with you know you're between a rock and a hard place there you've got commercial on some sides of the building and you have homes on the other side all the neighbors would like to think that you're going to be a good neighbor and and have a decent looking facility there and it right now it is not a decent looking facility it's just not and it's not right to come here and ask us to approve something that that we think is an eyesore it was it was an eyesore before it's been being used illegally and it continues to be an eyesore and it's also as Mr uh rker points out it's it's a danger with that pool so please make sure that pool is secured Gates should be closed if there's a pool there Gates should be closed it's just not right there's a neighborhood there with a ton of kids and uh you know you can't watch them all the time so please let's make sure that that property is secure thank you thank you any other questions on the board Miss de Marza can you point out where the trash enclosure is going to be please um we can we can point it out on this or Anthony if you want to pull pull up A1 it's a little clearer please can you see it on this Mark marked with the X you have a picture of the the the building I guess there was a picture of it when you were showing us the the wall can you just bring that up and show me where that would be a yes you can't see it from this picture Anthony scroll down let's see if there's another not this either this is pretty nice Landscaping oh okay so it's on this side it would be about right here well after we take take out this this uh fence it would be about there and what is it going to look like exactly it's not going to just have like the the garbage right there it's going to actually be a an enclosure okay yeah as per the ordinance okay thank you all right any other questions from the board have another uh yes another person that's going to have the joy of testifying yes this one will probably be less painful because it's traffic it's Scott Kennel and oh Mr Kenn that yes we and we have an architect I believe yes and we have an owner we and we have a planner and you're just full of people we have a lot of people all right do you swear or affirm to tell the truth the whole truth nothing but the truth yes I do all right Scott Kenn M and R Associates 1431 l Road man you sleep here right welcome hey Scott you've testified as a professional just a few times as a traffic expert in the past yes okay thank you um so I know and you did a report most recently in July of this year can you just summarize um what you did to produce report and what your conclusions were yes I mean the report is uh traffic statements where provided traffic projections where this type of use will generate approximately 5 Hour trips we also did traffic counts on Oak and Sten BL Oak Avenue Oak uh has traffic volumes in a range of 80 day 85 Vehicles two-way during the morning and afternoon hours generally speaking it's a low volume roadway for a commercial use uh parking lots been designed to accommodate I count 10 parking spaces and the driveway location will provide adequate sight lines so in my opinion the access can operate safely and efficiently um and again as I stated it's a low volume traic generator any questions from the board Mr Maro I'm sorry you said 10 parking spaces or is it seven there are seven employees are parkes okay thank you uh gentlemen thank you good to go thank you architect you want to come up we'll bring the owner up that'd be fine thank you good evening sir we're going to ask you to take a note thank you wait uh please raise your right hand do you swear or affirm to tell the truth the whole truth nothing but the truth right please state your name and spell your last of the record I check the microphone to see if it is it on Shaga Shore s c h o r r and Mr sure you testified at the last hearing um correct yes and you're the owner of the property yes so um I guess to address Mr Riker's comment head on the pool apparently had a lot of kids in it this summer where are these kids from I don't know if they had a lot of kids um my kids uh on a Sunday occasionally go swimming there and you obviously UND has the pool been closed now yes all right and the and is the gate going to be closed so that no one could sneak in and get into it yes it's typically closed yeah um you also heard comment obviously the pool will be removed as a condition of of approval yes you also understand that if the if the septic system if you will that's currently in existence if if for some reason that needs to be upgraded or removed and a new system installed you'd have to comply with whatever the Board of Health requires yes you also heard me say that there are seven employees but they're all not on site at the same time is that accurate that's typical on visitors do you get visitors no not many and you get deliveries normal ups type trucks track occasionally we get a effect okay um and then you heard the concerns and comments about property maintenance um I I don't you have a comment or response um we typically try to keep Property Maintenance that picture I think on that side of the building is good the other picture seemingly there was not much there so but you I heard there was trash and other things against the fence apparently we we we typically try to keep it clean yeah um and you you heard the comments about a good neighbor yes and you understand what that means yes um if if the board were to Grant this approval and condition it upon proper maintenance at the time of a CO and also um cleaning up or supplementing the Landscaping at the front of the building you would you would agree to cooperate yes he's all yours thank you from the board yes sir he's here because he wants to legitimize something that already goes on he wants to put an addition because he wants to do that he's got to take out the pool take out the shed build a parking lot do improvements what time frame to start this how long will it take to be finished what's the expectation for the board and the public this project will be undertaken and completed whatever it is the board well assuming you were given approval tonight and all the conditions are met Board of Health Etc by the end of the year how fast will you begin the the cleanup and construction that's required to meet the condition um I I think you said last time immediately after our our a period of uh approval and how long will it take you to finish the work I would have to consult with the contractor but we we would prepare that uh contract prior to the time to start so we would be hit the ground running and start right away so weather permitting could we stipulate that we'll commence the work within 60 days of the um resolution compliance is that something that everyone thinks is reasonable that sounds good I know um I will drive by I know Mr rker will be driving by so we'd expect to see something within 60 days we'd expect to see some uh activity sure Madam chair could we start with the pool yes get well um the the triggering date would be from the beginning of resolution compliance yeah so you'll agree that the first thing you'll undertake during construction is to fill that pool in obviously you have to meet all the ordinance standards for compaction Etc but you'll do that as the first event yes Madam chair yes as far as the removal of the pool they could pull a demo PR on that today there's no read for resolution compliance to get the map sign and everything along those lines which he'll need to do but there's no reason why he can't take pool out today or tomorrow okay immediately so yeah and and Mr CLE makes a good point we don't need resolution compliance to fill that pool in so he'll start that within 30 days okay we have 30 day agreement yeah because he has to I think he we don't know if he needs a building permit to do that we're have to figure out what I think I think there's bonding requirements correct 30 days to start construction or 30 days to apply for a permit [Music] ta off dep to watch your trash that's code enfor you have personal accountability you own the property you pay taxes who operate your problem nobody else not going to have had this ambig this project telling children wasn't last night and you came here we corrected you we warned you did it again I went there twice and I saw what was going on the front of that place should be as nice the backyard with wonderful red umbrellas sand and everything else you care more about doing what's good for you than being a good neighbor in a good neighborhood in a good town okay let's talk about how we're going to make 1950 home like office what are we going to it are original window up disc with all due respect Madam chairwoman had mentioned at the time about Landscaping I think if you can give me the other picture we' have we had Landscaping we have it and I think it's presentable um Talk structure structure is a home you would like toal office interest landscap interested what going bring structureal building piur Shad [Music] uput all over the place back would would the applicant be amendable to a monthly cleaning service third party landscape or somebody to clean up the premises as a as a commercial entity yeah that be fair but the the question by bi-weekly maybe something that affect yeah that's fine a few drive around build and people are coming here are building wonderful artive [Music] so I I guess the answer your question is that he's not proposing to put new windows or doors in he's willing to clean up the outside and put the Landscaping but it looks like a house but it's different iated come here raise your right hand so so the answer I think we got we got two issues going on one I believe the the trash the the Landscaping the applicant has agreed to that's not an isue care right so we can that that's stipulated that's a condition now all right second one would be I know I'm kind of jumping the gun here but we haven't got to the architecturals yet but is the applicant willing to to redo the architecturals so that it it it adequately represents a commercial building the the intent was to leave the exterior the way it is which is a house and next to a residential development um there was no intention to replace the windows reside it or any of that is there anything that the AR can do just freshen it up give it a fresher look I understand keeping it as a residential look I have no problem with that you're not trying to build a big Warehouse in the front of the other houses well I like to hear from the architect what you can do just fuse it up new doors maybe fix the windows or whatever they have to do as far as a septic system not being redone I think this is a good thing is getting change of use and it's going to have to be redone by the Board of Health so whatever is complied you're going to have to comply with I think the septic systems a done issue for me because it's going to have to come the compliance of the Board of Health I would like to hear from the architect what he can do to Spruce it up a little make it a little better I don't know exactly what's wrong with the house what they can do to fix it that's what I'm waiting to hear we U we could bring you architect up I'm not sure if he's prepared to answer that but we can see um I don't know if he's spoken to the owner about that issue at all because the intent was to leave it as it is other than the Landscaping you can talk to you're only here tonight yep I agree all right we'll we'll give it 10 minutes and uh have some conversations and uh come back 10 minute clock on us for that Anthony please thank you e e e e e e e e e e e e e e e e e e e e e swear the architect all right please raise your right hand do you swear or affirm to tell the truth the hold truth and nothing but the truth yes I do all right naali gut G I'm our licensed architect New Jersey multiple other states I'm principal of gut van LLC architectural firm in Lakewood these drawings if we need them we're prepared under my supervision and you're familiar with the property yes I am um so you've heard I I guess obviously the most important comment or question that we have is what can you suggest for the board to consider to spruce up the building not the we've already stipulated that Landscaping will be addressed to the satisfaction of the board professionals the building itself what can you offer right so I I would like to reiterate that um the game game plan was to keep this the the basic Aesthetics the way they were it happens to be a very Charming house in my opinion the Landscaping is also very Charming it's not typical just just grass that there's actually a lot of character to it um the issue is is maintenance does need maintenance and garbage which I I would think that once the pool is out I I I feel like the the garbage and the mess is coming from the Dual use using the pool as like side thing which right children Min correct my statement was of alol how we get min where the alcohol many airplane bottles all over the side of the property you have not that you're here beling us telling us that it's related to the pool don't okay just ttif that grand you're telling the I'm we have an problem here with I swear okay when he comes back the first question I'm going to ask him if be ready the p and I'm going to swear him in again to get that answer okay the use of the pool has nothing to do with the garbage the garbage has to do with maintaining the property which is nothing to do with architectural work okay nothing to do with architectural so let's go back to the structure and we'll have a conversation about the structure because we already done with the operations so so so let's talk structure what are we going to do with the structure what would you suggest the professional AR that has seen this structure what ideas would you come up with to beautify the structure to make it a little bit more pleasant other than the operation address that okay ju just to clarify I'm I'm not arguing I'm just suggesting that a lot of the okay this is a quasi judicial P it's fact it's black or white it's pregnant or not the gray area is just fooling around you're fooling around let's talk about the structure are we clear okay thank you so you were you you comment about that you felt that the structure was attractive and not inconsistent with the homes also there's a office building next door that's not the most modern or attractive building either correct corre so the question is there's obviously concerns about the the look of the structure what can we do to soften that okay so we we we had just had a discussion and uh the owner is open to repainting it cleaning up new ruo treatment neat and and cleaning up the Landscaping scheduled maintenance on the landscape you can make sure that the property does look neat and maintains the professional office look that it deserves while maintaining the residential Aesthetics that it has blending into the neighborhood so to summarize the as it relates solely to the structure um painting the building and new window treatments correct correct the doors and the windows are functional so they're functional it just needs to be cleaned up with new window treatment I have a question on what you're considering window treatment are all the glasses clear nice is old glass the windows are in fine shape they just the window shades are paper window shades so they would be upgraded to a nice shade a nice permanent type of shade and the outside you paint yes the Cent is open all the trim and stuff would be done right yes so again the style of the house is is it would look like the other houses in the neighborhood some of the old houses it will still maintain its residential look but it will NE neat and clean thank you right so so a neighborhood ski would look similar to the neighborhood scheme just like a new home or a cleaned up home a cleaned up home again it is in a residential area and it it it's not it's not it's not um necessary to to scream that I'm a beautify it in accordance with in my opinion it looks better in the lawyer's office next door the lawyer's office is is just cleaner I'm not recalling now what it is but okay you might take a look one of one of one of when I drive down [Music] Road consistent so when I l i see the denst office it looks like a dental office the word office you keep vacillating overs it's a resal home you are not using it as a resal home you been legally years but he hasn't said it's a residential home he's saying residential character because it's near the homes that's what they're trying to maintain so look that's what we're willing to offer we think think it's an improvement certainly over what's there um he's not going to rebuild the building I understands I we could keep going back if you want to spend the whole night doing that no we're we're prepared to finish Mr Mr rer Mr alery I think we've we've made the point we belabored it we beat it with a hammer and then and then beat it with an excavator uh on top of that um so if this is the offer being presented by the applicant this we're going to go round and round and round in circles again uh why doesn't the board make a decision as to whether or not this is acceptable so that we don't have another hour's worth of testimony then get back to the same place where we're at right now that would be my recommendation so the offer on the table is to have bi-weekly cleaning services they're going to beautify the building to be within the neighborhood scheme with new paint new window treatments and if the applicant would be willing to defog the windows uh you know so that the windows at least look uh look new you know window treatment something like that um that would be my recommendation is that the offer on the table from the applicant I don't do you know anything about I don't know anything about defogging Windows so again I have to defer I think it's a demineralizing process but I don't I don't know what kind of Windows you have so I'm just kind of putting out there old with broken seals okay it seems to me I think they're they're triple glazed and they're broken seals that's that's why you get that foggy window look there's there's a vapor between the panes it could be I just all we we could clean the windows to the extent I I I don't know how else to answer that Madam chair as far as far as the AR architecturals Go will we be getting new architectural drawings that show the new windows that show the painting typically a window treatment not something that's shown in architectural plans unless we're redoing the windows we're proposing the windows stay they just window treatment and any fogging that's present will be cleaned up I think you could provide um exterior pictures that would show that the property the the structure has been painted and the trim has been painted and cleaned up you could provide that yeah we could provide that Mr Peters what do you think Mr C what do you think um I'd still like to see what's proposed on the drawing so everybody knows what what we're going to get um I guess you could put a bond up for the improvements to the structure that only gets released once the board is satisfied with the way it looks without the issue is Main and would agree work when pull off I think what issue is operational issue and I would ask ask theard attorney out of bounds to ask for a bond for operational purposes you know for for two years so that if we do not see the Improvement and in a commitment that's in the resolution compliance that we have recourse I I I think we're we're kind of skirting what we're allowed to do here guys I think we we we we we have so legally you can request Prat share contributions um as to as to requesting a bond for estimates that we don't know I mean we can we can request that the applicant work with Mr CLE as to determine what evaluation of the bond would be and if they're willing to do it um that would be acceptable but I mean you need you need some kind of business proposals you need some something to verify what the bond that we're we're putting into effect would be and even then most performance bonds comes at the point of construction right which is which is two steps further than than we are yeah and the problem is Municipal land use law that you don't bond for on-site improvements it's only offsites um so I understand the suggestion but I don't know how we would even accomplish something like that and it's so subjective window so we go around and around and you say house I say home and the reality is I'm going to it out again Mr C mentioned Windows treatments are nice thank you but my comment the is your wi are Frost mad chair said miniz heard some words the probably fa but I'm not being p on glass or is anybody here we saying would you do the right thing and then this gentleman comes back and says well we'll we'll address the window apparently he's on a really short Lee about what he can and can't do due to the reluctance of the property so then that brings us into how do we get the property owner to do the right thing the right time mon pass and and we're we're sitting here aggravating one another um so I don't know how to get this property owner to do the right thing and quite honestly I'm not his property manager I don't want to be as property manager I don't want Jackson Township to be as property manager I don't think we should pay coded to go over there and and nudge him a little and it certainly doesn't belong in zoning it certainly doesn't belong in construction Department right and I've just responsibility okay so so you can't you can't legislate personal responsibility or accept permissible Ro and not and there's no all we're here to do is comply with the ordinance that's what we're trying to do the applicant be willing to stipulate to hiring some kind of a window restoring service to bring it I mean is that I don't know Mr reer would that would that it's a blank it's a blank check that he's not prepared to write I don't we don't know what that means does it mean we're have to rip out the entire structures of the building to put new windows in because somebody says and you repair it but there's a difference there's a difference between Aesthetics and function if the plumbing breaks should fix it if you don't like the window that doesn't mean I will build is minimum stand that's what the building code is it is the very least you can do to get by that is our my personal opinion he will do the very least to get by to try to secure and approval that is my statement on being own in2 will he Poss first of all we believe the building he believes and the architect believes the building as it is is fine you don't like it so it's a I don't like has to do I like or don't I'm looking at the performance of the building for the use of the building and for the F character what's going on telling me you want to put a commercial Enterprise of a res in a commercial Zone all right I I think we're we're belaboring the point guys we we're going in circles again which I didn't want to do um so would would the applicant be amendable to some kind of window treatment to make Mr rker happy again I window treatments we've agreed to but you're talking about window potentially replacing Windows I'm not talking about replacing Windows talking about a window restoration that doesn't Encompass the complete I don't know if you we we could we could look look more closely what the problem is what causing that frosting and if it's if it's a defa def a defect in the windows that could be replaced and if it's not if it's just cleaning up or it's too much humidity in the building and that could be addressed whatever it takes to get those windows to look right I don't and the applicant will be willing to stipulate to that yes okay that's that's fair enough all right we have any other any other topics that we got to have we just have to bring the planner up wait we have the planner correct yeah thank you there we go okay Off to the Races all right uh we do you swear or affirm to tell the truth to hold truth nothing but the truth all right please state your name and spell your last of the record sure Ian Borton president of professional Design Services Lakewood New Jersey licensed professional planner new state New Jersey and your your qualifications have been accepted many times as a planner here I assume uh welcome back it's a few times rumor has it rumor has it you here Ian we usually call planner up for D variance relief but tonight we we simply have C variance relief all all related to The Underside lot nature of this application can you just describe the variances and place the appropriate proofs on the record please yes good evening so the board has heard obviously testing over multiple evenings the property is an undersized lot in the highway commercial Zone it has it's under sized with lot area with 20,000 ft existing where 45,000 Square ft is required in the highway commercial Zone the lot Frontage and width or width and width and front are 100 ft each where 175 is required uh so that makes a lot under siiz in the highway commercial Zone it is an existing lot that that has existed for many years it is a self not not a self- creadit hardship so this is a classic example of a hardship or C1 variance where by virtue of exceptional shape of the property uh those variances are existing and I believe they're they are qualified as a C1 as an existing condition certainly not exacerbated or affected by the applicant's proposal I would also uh butress the record additionally with the fact that even though we're we do qualify for a C1 uh the C2 also uh does apply in this case as a benefits versus detriments because the property is being brought into conformance with the Zone plan and master plan by converting a residential use to a commercial use additionally the property is is uh as a Redevelopment of an existing home into the office even by adding those uh parking spaces has an impervious coverage of only 42% where 75% is permitted and the building coverage is only 11% where 35% is permitted so U even though the lot is undersized uh by its existing nature it's well within substantially within the maximum development uh capacity in the highway commercial Zone and lastly there is a minimum front setback uh variance to stuan which is 21.9 ft um as well as 29 ft to Oak Drive Which is less than the ordinance standard of 60 ft but again that is an existing condition and the uh the C1 variance criteria would apply and in my opinion is met in this case so we have Mr Mr any comments thank you that concludes our presentation Madam chair oh not my design I I think it's it's an appropriate design uh I would add on the septic I I ran through numbers while I was back there the the existing single family house at four bedrooms if it's four bedrooms will be 650 gallons per day at 2,000t office is 250 gallons per day so the septic flows are substantially reduced it does need an approval from the Board of Health I think there's a good chance the Board of Health will require a standard bed they will not allow the seage pit in my opinion but but simply that's an iate agency approval and I agree with the engineer's testimony in that case the applicant's fully aware that just just add some environmental spin to that as well while I here thank you any comments from the board questions or concerns how about a motion no no oh I'm very sorry I I will invite the public if anyone has any comments about this piece of property questions for the um experts first please any cross-examination questions see see second all in favor I now we'll open the board the forum for anyone who wishes to speak about any point to do with this uh application I do ma'am yes Public public we're still do public seeing no one come forward I move the uh close the public testimony second all in favor I could could I just do a quick summary sorry I know we took a lot more of the time than we expected so I just first of all I want to question or remind the board that we're here to review the application based upon the ordinances that the town has um I understand Mr rker is upset many of the other board members may be upset but we need to focus on the ordinance secondly we obviously have to go to the Board of Health as Mr bordon and our engineer indicated that septic system if you will has to comply with the regulations that's an outside agency that approval that the applicant will have to obtain we agreed to fill the pool in we we discussed that the applicant will apply for the pool demolition permit for lack of a better term within 60 days of tonight not the resolution but from tonight so because he has to line up a contractor get a proposal prepare the application apply for a permit also diligently pursue the closing of that pool once the permit's issued um we've agreed to work with the town on the cleanup of the property property as it relates to Landscaping obviously Property Maintenance um we're going to paint the building window treat new window treatments and the architect indicated they we would work on the solution to the defogging of the windows the bi-weekly cleaning we have no issues with as far as Property Maintenance is concerned otherwise I mean it's a permitted use in the zone the variances are are all preexisting and we really think that you've essentially cleaned up the property as to the best extent that you can um and we request that the board Grant the approval subject to those conditions or any other conditions obviously we agreed to address all the technical comments within the reports as well so there no open technical issues with your professionals thank you now we will request a motion I'd like to make a motion ma'am uh there's a lot to look at here and I think maybe I'm old school maybe too old school but I've been taught that you can't look at everything of what's existing you have to look at the application of what you're looking at the application use and going forward from that point I understand the owner may not have taken care of it and so forth um and should have may be better cared for for some reason or another that's not part of the next application the pool being filled in and being used as a rental or whatever in the past whatever it is doesn't make a difference because it's being being filled in the septic I think is a blessing that we changeing the use and it'll be looked at from the Board of Health which should probably require a new system and I think that's a plus to the whole neighborhood and the grounds around it as far as keeping the residential look I think that's a plus I don't think the other people want an office looking building there but if it could be neatened up like you submitted to doing I think that's a good thing it's it's it's a tough application to look at it applied with bi-weekly cleaning and so forth in the meantime but once again looking at it going forward not what has been for 40 years or whatever it's been but here's the application and going forward and if it's a code enforcement thing at that point it has to be code enforcement with all that said I make a motion to approve looking for a second I'll second that motion H we'll have a Voice vote Please Mr brzy yes Mr marzo yes as long as all the conditions are met yes I agree Mr heler yes Mr rker I will vote Yes with the understanding that this will follow through and make that commitment I will issue the warning don't shame on you you're the property owner it's in your total control okay Miss Rose reluctantly yes but I would like to see him follow through Mr Sullivan uh the fact is that we shouldn't have to have come back we shouldn't have to beg for someone to bring uh their property up to minimum standards the fact remains that we did the fact remains that we've had to spend 75 minutes excuse me more than that over 90 minutes on this application when it should have been a barly easy application if we had a Cooperative applicant instead we've had to bring this applicant into Conformity kicking and screaming with all that being said shame on you if you don't come through on what you promised I reluctantly vote Yes Dr cam yes thank you usually I say congratulations but I'm not in the mood I'm just not in the no congratulations for me tonight wasted we wasted two nights on this two nights on this should have been should have been a half an hour that's still being used moving right along to Jesus what we can and I was just about ready I was just about ready but he backed all I promise we'll be nicer me I said I promise we'll be nicer oh yes I will be nicer too I promise that uh good evening everybody my name is Joseph molini from Al serman of molini I represent 10 Forest till Avenue LLC um the uh this is an application site plan application for what is essentially a five unit each unit is 1,000 squ ft building on County Line Road at the intersection of forestal Avenue which is a dead end Street and County Line North County Line where it is four lanes um two in each Direction currently there is a uh we're also proposing in addition of the five units each 1,000 square fet there's 1,000 uh feet below each end unit for two 2,000 additional square feet that will be storage only that we will stipulate by way of a deed restriction so that it's not used otherwise um there are uh current there is currently a building that fronts on Forest Hill that is used by our client Jose Angeles for his painting business uh he proposes to put his office in one of the end units and on the other end there's going to be a small little Mexican restaurant and then the other three units will be in accordance with whatever he can rent it to uh as is allowed in the commercial Zone the highway commercial Zone there are a couple of variances uh they are all the result of uh all pre-existing based on the the the size and the configuration of the site so where 45,000 feet is required we have 42,0 444 where lot width of 200 is required we have 178.6 ft where lot Frontage is required of 200 ft we have 163.5 along Forest Hill and we lot Frontage there's actually a paper street that backs up to the very corner back right corner of the property and um technically you're supposed to have 200 feet Frontage on that street and we have 20 feet Frontage on a paper Street that'll probably never be built on the testimony we'll show that um we do have um parking for 40 spaces there was an additional variance noted in the review letters that we were only 10 ft from the adjacent residential Zone where 20 ft is required on Forest Hill we are actually going to move the parking area take away two spots um so that we are 20 ft and then we're going to put in two V EV spots which we get credit for those two additionals so we still have 40 spots technically uh but we're going to eliminate that variance that was either called out by Mr Peters or Mr CLE or both of them um so the testimony tonight will be by John beleta who is a professional engineer professional planner we have uh David Feldman Architect who did submit architecturals on a PDF but on Friday I asked him to put them in color so that's why we have something on a board here which we'll have him testify to as well and then we have Scott canel the traffic expert and my client is available for questions so with that I'd like to have Mr beleta Swan thank you all right please raise your right hand you swear or affirm to tell the truth the hold truth nothing but the truth yes sir I please state your name and spell your last of the record yes John beleta B L T Za Nelson Engineering asso assciates I'm a licensed engineer and a licensed professional planner in the state as well as a certified Municipal engineer all right and have do you accept his qualifications or would you like accepts the credentials yes thank you welcome thank you I've been here uh this my third time every decade or so first time 2002 then 2012 and now here again Mr bleta would you kindly describe the application to the board including the existing property what's the proposed development is the variances that are being requested and all the site improvements if I could ask Anthony is it can you put the uh site plan uh sheet number two the demolition plan up on the screen please uh that's the architectural the other one the there you go sheet number two is that there you that's it okay so sheet number two is a demolition plan and that's a picture of the existing property what is there on the property now uh let me quickly go through what Joe just recapped the existing property is located at the corner of Forest Hill Avenue and Forest Hill is a dead on street is it not oh it's not a de okay sorry my my fault go ahead I promise to be quiet that's okay Joe and uh North County Line Road North County LS road is divided highway two lanes cross to this South on our side of the road two lanes to the uh North it's 102t right of way I believe that uh Forest still Avenue is a 50t right of way uh the the property is known as block 83.0 2 lot one uh the total lot area is 42444 square ft 0.974 Acres the property is located in the HC Highway commercial Zone District District uh the lot is undersized for the zone and variance conditions exist for the lot itself uh there's four of them uh the first one is that the lot area is 42440 fet where 45,000 Square F feet is the minimum lot area required in the zone the lot width uh is 178.6 Ft where 200 ft is requ required uh the minimum required the lot Frontage along Forest Hill Avenue is 165.7 feet or 200 feet is a minimum Frontage required and the lot Frontage across Pine Crest Avenue is 20 feet Pine Crest Avenue is a unimproved uh Street which dead ends into the Southern Line lot of the property it's 40t right of way and the lot Frontage on Pine Crest Avenue on the property is 20 feet or 200 ft is required the lot Frontage by the way along North County Line Road is conforming at 2234 feet where 200 feet is minimum required I would note that the two adjacent Lots on either side of the subject property are both deficient with respect to Street Frontage and lot area uh towards the north block 83.0 uh 8301 lot 1.01 has a lot area of 0.86 acres in a street Frontage uh of approximately 64 feet on North County Line Road and block 8 3.02 lot 2.01 to the South has a lot air area of 0.74 acres and a street Frontage along Forest Hill Avenue of 160 ft once again we're 200 feet is the minimum required Frontage in the HC zone now getting to the existing I'll give you a quick overview of the existing development on the property uh the existing improvements include a one-story frame building as you can see uh with Landings steps brick PA sidewalk a PA pad PA parking area Timber curb planter site ID sign a wood sign a chainlink fence three trailers four sheds and various asphalt concrete and gravel areas part of the site to the West is wooded uh and there is a sight triangle easement on the property at the intersection of Forest Hill Avenue uh that's a standard I believe 30 by 100 Ocean County site triangle easement at the intersection and there is also a Ocean County Highway easement along majority of the frontage of the property that's approximately 23 and a half feet wide now there are also bulk variance conditions that exist for the current development on the property itself for the development on the property there are two of them the first is the front setback is 38.5 ft to Forest Hill Avenue where 60 feet is a minimum front setback required and the side setback to the lot to the South is exist at 19.1 feet or 25 ft is the minimum required both of these bulk Varian that are existing will be eliminated as a result of the project the Project's going to demolish the existing structures on the site correct all of the existing structures and thereby get rid of those variances which currently exist correct and then and and the new 5,000 foot building it's a 50 by 100 foot building uh will meet all of the uh bulk setbacks front side uh now moving on to sheet three please Anthony uh the next sheet which is the construction plan shows the geometric layout uh of the proposed improvements on the lot as I said the applicant seeking approval to construct a on story 5,000 SQ foot commercial building it's 5,000 square ft on the first floor uh it includes a 1,000 foot restaurant at the southernmost unit the there's five units they're 20 by 50 ft uh each 1,000 square ft the two end units north and south are proposed to also have a basement the three units in the center portion of the building or craw spacer slab onr and that basement will be utilized for storage is that correct yeah the applicant has just stipulated that the two basements will be used for storage and as indicated in my opening statement if required the the applicant consents to a deed restriction as to that he has okay go ah uh say that one more time Mr michelini say if if if the board required a deed restriction for the basement area to be utilized as storage we would consent to that I don't know that the board would require it but if there's any concerns about it being used for something else we would consent that it be used because it impacts parking really it'll run with the property so what's that it'll it'll run with the property so yeah right all right as to the basement only we would utilize it for storage the some Mechanicals but mainly the the applicant is willing to stipulate that the app will stipulate to that yeah okay and that being said in Mr uh peters's letter asked for a quick explanation about the parking requirements we had uh taking a look at the southernmost unit 1,000 square F feet the parking requirement is one space per 50 square fet therefore that one unit uh uses half of the spaces that you're looking at in the parking lot 20 spaces are required uh as a restaurant in that space and the other four units on the ground floor the most restrictive parking requirements for permitted uses in the zone is one per 200 square fet those other four units or the other 4,000 ft² in the building would make up the other 20 parking spaces in the parking lot that is how we designed the property uh as far as the additional spaces that are required I had originally used one space per 1500 square feet for storage in the basement thereby uh giving a a parking requirement on on the sheet one of my plan of 41 spaces Mr Peters pointed out that at 1 per 200 square feet for those basement units it would be a total parking requirement of 50 spaces once again where 40 spaces are required sorry are provided in your opinion though if we agree to use the storage the basement areas as storage would that be adequate for the 40 spaces that are proposed yes okay and um I noted in my opening that we're going to eliminate two spaces so as to make uh the parking area 20 ft from the adjacent parcel on Forest Hill instead of 10 ft and but in in its place require two EV spaces would you explain that sure thing so looking at this plan you're looking at 40 spaces on the ground and by the way two of the spaces are barrier free spaces near the center portion of the building one of them is Van accessible uh the tree expert in her letter brought up a point that the adjac property uh to the South is a residential use which I may add as a non-permitted uh use in the highway commercial Zone however to a residential use the parking setback required in the development standards is 20 feet the plan that you're looking at shows 10 feet so what the applicant is proposing to do is remove the two southernmost spaces for a total of 30 spaces on the ground and then add two Make Ready electric vehicle charging stations somewhere on in the parking lot which will give him a credit for an extra two spaces thereby bringing the total of the number of spaces provided to 40 and also of these spaces sir would be away from the building though two EV two EV parking spots that would be the furthest from the building they could be um that's what we'd want to see yeah yeah that's what you would like okay so furthest from the building would be directly uh I guess adjacent to Forest Hill Avenue correct and it would be the two southeastern parking spaces where the point there is shown now okay and then we'll have 20 ft also from the joining uh residential correct yes so by by removing the two physical spaces thereby we eliminate the variant that the tree expert pointed out uh because the uh parking setb back to a commercial use would only be 10 ft but this provides that 20 foot parking setback to the residential use if you would go on the rest of your testimony various design waivers as mentioned in the the engineer and planner's letters are also required be touching on some of them but let me get into the site improvements now once again still referring to plan sheet 3 the construction plan uh starting at the the two rights of way we have provided a 24 foot wide two-way Drive AIS for egress uh Ingress and egress from uh North County Line Road into the property and we're also providing a 24t wide two-way drive a for Ingress and egress from Forest Hill Avenue uh the there is also a 24t wide two-way drive a throughout the parking area in the site uh the parking area and the drive ISS are curved fully with uh concrete curb all around uh in addition there is a concrete apron at each of the concrete apron depress curb at each of the entrances from the public RightWay that go from the uh depress curb up to the property line approximately 9 ft at North County Line Road and 7 ft perhaps at Forest Hill Avenue from memory uh the right of ways we are proposing there's no curb there now the curb at County Line there is a curb on North County Line Road none on Forest Hill Avenue we are proposing to curb fully the right of way of both streets along the entire Frontage of the property with uh Ocean County Highway curb along North County Line Road and a municipal type curb along Forest Hill Avenue are you seeking a design waiver for uh sidewalks we are seeking a design waiver for uh sidewalks uh but we're providing the curb and there's no sidewalks in the area on Forest Hill or on County Line in the area correct yes that's correct uh in addition we have a 4T sidewalk around the entire building except along the front of the building it's a 7 and 1/2t wide sidewalk 8 ft from the building to the face of the curb uh we have uh a loading area uh which is adjacent to the North part of the property and it is uh in front of a 12 by 18 ft dumpster enclosure the loading area measures at its smallest Dimensions approximately 55 ft by long by 20 feet wide will that be adequate to allow a vehicle to get in there and unload um as necessary uh yes it will uh on if you will refer to uh Anthony please sheet 13 last sheet on this PDF it shows a turning movement that Ocean County planning board requested for the property and it shows an su3 single unit vehicle uh coming in and then egressing the the site uh in addition in answer to one of comments in Mr Peter's letter he asked about fire truck movement and garbage truck movement as I said there's a a free 24t wide uh Drive aisle through the property and into the property whereby a fire Tru can come in from either Street go through the drive AIS in the property and exit out the other Street and a garbage truck be it a if it is a front loader can drive straight in from North County Line Road straight in uh take the garbage uh do a k turn and come back out of property from either driveway and you have a o County planning board approval correct yes we did submit this plan to Ocean County planning board I have one question yes sir I understand the fire apparat the front is there anywhere to get it where it can get to the back of the building also if needed uh where the garbage disos of a garbage truck and fit in there can that be fixed where a garbage truck can get to at least a portion of the back of the building well a fire truck could pull up on the uh north side up to the dumpster enclosure and spray the building if he has height it's a one-story building he'd be able to spray down on the back of the building and then a fire truck could come to the southern aisle and go past the rear of the building and he could spray the building the back of the building from that location Mr rer you'd be a little more familiar with me if that works or not re want to put a littleony on the seems to want to operate restaurant and I think that will be an excellent idea put testimony on at rathers we wouldn't like people let's called fire one of the fire guys the review process you're going to see comments that they want access to all sides of the so to solve this they going to want to get truck behind the building it's not so much spray water it's to get a engine in there to pump it I don't know if you're going to be sprinkled or not that so what I would suggest it's possible we don't have enough show them the other sheet sheet sheet three please Anthony I would M Mr Mr rer I'm sorry that I I didn't mention this we had back and forth with Mr O'Brien and they issued they issued the uh fire they issued approval from uh purifier District number four on December 1st 2023 for the plan that's here that you're looking at he he did make some comments uh one was that's he wanted a KNX Spock installed on the emergency access he wanted identifying emblems for structure with truss construction and solar panels be placed on the building he wanted to propose fire lane signage around the ground markings that were placed on the map that you may be able to see in yellow and he wanted a bunch of fir Lane no parking signs which we have shown on the plan and he uh I showed him that there is a existing fire hydrant right here at the intersection of nor County Line Road but anyway I will take your comments too sir is just put aess curve wide so so it's for a truck if it's I'm if they need access they can drive small engine over that and that's really there a few things you know they want building it's on fire there's get that way out of the bag money you you'll see this in another I drive thank you Mr reer will uh the applicants amable to that yeah he will certainly do that and one of the engineers comments was to provide a aisle to drive into the Basin for maintenance so we'll do a depress curb okay we will the applicant testify because it's he's the owner um so if you would address yourself to the to the remaining uh site issues storm drainage Landscaping utilities there's water and sewer there currently right yes and if you could address the other issues lighting Etc so we talked about the sidewalks um there is a small 270 Square ft 27 8T outdoor seating area to the south of the building uh there's also um I'm sorry there's also design grades in the parking lot throughout the site approximately 1 to 5% uh and as I mentioned uh the Ocean County planning board has approved the plan as well as a local fire uh District Number Four and Anthony if you could please uh go to the next sheet sheet number four is the grading and utility plan now uh I'll talk about the storm drains first there's a storm drain system that we've designed it consists of inlets some uh some B type inlets and some a type inlets uh it has 12in plastic hdp pipe collects the water storm runoff from the main parking lot sends it North into an infiltration Basin through a flared in section where it infiltrates and then when it fills to a certain point goes through an outlet control control structure located on the south side of the Basin from there it flows into another 12 in uh hdp storm drain pipe into a b Inlet and then goes into 27s C 740 underground recharge Chambers where it percolates into the ground uh and also receives water from two inlets on the Southern Park area into that portion of the system uh We've designed the system as minor development uh the uh Outlet is after the infiltration for larger storms storms larger than I believe the 25-year storm uh 25e storm doesn't have any Outlet discharge for storms larger than either the 25 over the 100 uh there is an overflow Inlet a Inlet on uh Forest Hill Avenue there's also an emergency Spillway located at the top on the north side of the Basin which uh is for storms larger than the 100-year storm the 100-year storm will not overflow along the emergency Spillway and just strange system as I said was designed for minor development according to the standards of soil erosion control from the oceans County Soil Conservation District and they have approved as uh this this project that you're looking at we've received their approval uh however there was a uh comment in uh the engineer letter about the total limit of disturbance and I wanted to bring up that important point that this it's important to the applicant and my design process when I did this that we make sure to keep it as minor development which means as you sure I'm sure you all know less than one acre of total disturbance and less than one4 acre or 10,890 Square ft of added impervious uh motor vehicle uh or regulated impervious services so totaling right now we have approximately 4,149 Square ft of disturbance on the property plus approximately 3341 square feet of disturbance in the public right of ways uh for a total of 43,4 square ft that equals 0.998 Acres it's very close to an acre but I would wanted to make it clear that the applicant is going to stay underneath that acre because if we switch to major development on this project it would have to be totally redesigned and this type of development in all honesty probably would not fit on the property so we are going to be very cognizant of that fact by removing the two physical spaces that we talked about before that's going to give us actually a little bit less of disturbance and give us a little more cushion to the one acre of total disturbance which we're close on we're not very close on the quarter acre of added motor vehicle surfaces only about 0.15 Acres or 0.25 is allowed before triggering major development sir I hate to change subjects for a second we talked about a fire truck or fire apparatus getting to the rear of the property before we talked about the drainage plan there do we have a floating truck back there or can we get back there still that's so they get they get to ation yeah that makes sense to me yeah especially configuration we New York right not today okay but at least yeah at least they trying to get it somewhat back there and they can use their yeah listen the the bottom line is that based upon the new fire code what happens is that engineering standards as long as you're able to hit about 75% of the building and get you know 270 access around it you're you're good to go there's no requirement saying that we absolutely have to have 360 with that being said fire department likes it we like to see the fire department happy um you know and and we like you know to be able to sleep at night with the applicant knowing that if fire happens we did as much as humanly possible to prevent it um you know but this is reasonable you yeah the utility services are going to be taken from an existing War Main and an existing sewer M both of them are located on Forest Hill Avenue the uh uh Jackson Township mua has given us a water and sewer service ability letter subject to if this project is approved their final approval is going to need an application process but they have sent us a letter which I have and they say that water and sewer is available we sent them this plan along with a letter and that's the response that they provided back to us now that's the utilities and the drainage if we uh there's also some underground water service uh and like Electric telephone cable TV type service underground running towards the south of the Forest Hill Avenue driveway into the building in addition the restaurant southernmost 1,000 sqare foot unit we have provided a grease trap uh for that Sewer Lateral which will uh is located as close to the building as we possibly can get it such that it will trap grease in the sore trap and then will Connect into an existing clean it on the property and into the 8 inch PVC SD or 35 seain at approximately half a percent that exists in Forest Hill Avenue if we can move please to sheet number five is the Landscaping plan we uh our landscape architect designed a landscaping plan consist of various trees and shrubs there were certain comments on this plan uh by uh Mr Peters the planner and I believe the engineer as well as the expert on trees Sherry and they noted that each island needs a tree and applicant has agreed to put a tree in all the islands we neglected to do that on this plan there were some other uh comments about the Landscaping plan we will comply with those however one comment in the uh Tree Experts letter she requested to put some grass in the 278 square foot uh outdoor seating area on the Southeast corner of the building that one we're requesting not to do so maybe we'll put pavers there so the tables will uh sip better on a hardcap Surface at that location will that be enclosed at all any kind of like fencing around it or is it going to be open just open which would you prefer let's talk about the outdoor seating we're on outdoor seating and I was just thinking wow that'll be nice outdoor seating let's discuss the outdoor seating okay so it's uh the menu we don't have we don't have the luxury of having the fit up plan for the seating inside of the restaurant however as I said it is a rather High uh even with just per square foot seating has 20 spaces for the one uh unit uh the one restaurant unit to the South but uh if you would like to talk about outdoor seating that uh we were going to put some tables there it wasn't going to be very fancy I would have to admit at this point it's in the preliminary stages we're not even showing pinches or tables or anything there I think we we can have uh Mr Angelus testify about that along with the storage area for the restaurant so when he comes up why don't we have't address that that's fine that okay with you Mr Peters certainly okay all right sheet number six lighting plan please uh the lighting is accomplished by three wall packs three wall packs had a 10-ft mounting height along the east face of the building they RAB 50 watt LED wall packs at 10 foot mounting height as well as seven uh RAB brand 105 watt LED shoe box style downward facing pole lights mounted at 18 ft mounting Heights this will provide the following foot candle lighting levels in the pavement and pedestrian areas an average of 2.1 foot candles maximum of 9.9 foot candles a Max over Min ratio of 18.2 average over Min ratio of 3.8 in general we have just about provided the minimum as specified in the ordinance of 0.5 foot candles in The Pedestrian and pavement areas however there is a slight uh deviation from that at maybe 0 2 foot candles at one or two of the point on the grid uh that Mr Peters points out in his letter and applicant is requesting a waiver for that the uh our office usually designs pedestrian and pave uh pedestrian Park and area lighting at a half of a foot candle minimum which we think provides good nighttime uh pedestrian movement vehicular movement and also we try to eliminate hotspots by putting a number of uh pole mounted lights or around the site which will give some respect for dark sky compliance at night usually we use a 4,000k color uh Spectrum for those 5,000 is very bright and harsh best for security cameras 3,000k is softer more of like a soft white uh sorry a soft Browner colored light like in a residential setting we think 4,000 is good because it provides sort of a medium type of a light color spectrum you can see the wallmounted packs here uh the pole mounted packs to the left of them and the uh foundations that we have designed the foundations uh are up about out of the ground about 6 in and then the pole will be cut at 17 1/2 ft given an 18t mounting height to the bottom of the lens we've also degraded the lighting on all of the lights the wall packs and The Shoe Box lights uh shoe box lights to an 80% when we design this that means that in four or five years when there's dust and the lenses maybe get a little obscured what you're looking at here with these lighting levels in the point BYO grid as well as the isfo Contours shows what you're going to be getting after the building has been in operation for approximately five years uh finally I want to just briefly take into account some uh variances in design waivers uh as as a general uh discussion and then we'll be happy to go into any more specific ones but uh although the applicant did not meet all the bulk requirements many are due to the unique lot size and shape the applicant designed the proposed uh site Improvement so as to not create any crowding or any substantial detriment to the adjacent properties as you will recall he's moving the 10 foot setb from the adjacent lot to the South to 20 feet PA just stop you there real quick all of the bulk variances with the exception of the parking variant are pre-existing conditions that are essentially driven by the size and shape of the lot is that true yes okay so there's really nothing the applicant can do about them if they're going to develop this property at this location is that correct yes okay so does that qualify as a hardship for instance yes we mentioned the deficient lot size lot width and lot Frontage the location of the property on a County Road the location of the property on a corner lot two site triangle easements and a County Road easement existing on the property the lack of available area and Frontage on the adjacent lots and the required 20 foot set back to the residential use to the South which is a non-permitted print princial use in the highway commercial zone so all that's pre-existing correct uh everything pre-existing conditions and what about C2 do these variances also including the parking variants um do they uh meet the standards for C2 variants the variants are also Justified under a C2 variant analysis uh that is the benefits to be achieved by approving the site the plan and deviating from the zoning requirements outweighs any detriment to the Zone plan ordinance and public good and let me give you three quick reasons the existing building will be demolished and replaced with a new building thereby eliminating the two variances as related to the existing structure those are setback variances and once again the existing five foot uh 5,000 foot building which is much larger will comply with all bulk uh setback requirements even as Mr Peters stated in his letter that this small 20ft section of Pine Crest Avenue is considered a front yard uh and the building setback from this corner the closest corner of Pine Crest Avenue to the building is going to be a 772 foot front setback actually to the rear of the building where 60 feet is a minimum front set back required in the HC Zone the second reason being that the new building will be more ethically pleasing than the existing one and finally the proposed site plan uses the property in a more efficient manner uh than currently exists and does the uh plan provide adequate light air in open space and otherwise promote the purposes of zoning as set forth in the municipal land use law yes in my opinion as lense planner it does and finally uh design waivers requested there are various design waivers requested for the project as listed in Mr Peter's letter and uh the engineers letter and many of the waivers differ only slightly from the design standards in the ordinance for instance on curb Returns the minimum design standard in the ordinance is a radius of 5 feet many of some of the radiuses we have uh can you please refer back Anthony to sheet number three uh many of the curb returns are five feet uh but we're 5 ft is the minimum we do have some that are four and one that is three uh the two on the island to the South are five but I put some four Footers in there but these are very close to the actual uh standard in the uh ordinance however for this site as you all know well I'm sure although the Jackson Township has a a good ordinance and a thorough ordinance it's hard to find a one fits all and on this site in my opinion as a design engineer uh minor deviations uh we are requesting the applicants requesting uh design waivers 4 and also so the applicant has met a significant number of the ordinance design standards we met a very large number of those now in general the standard for design waivers show a hardship or practical difficulty and to demonstrate that the waiver request is reasonable uh and that follows the intent of the municipal ordinance the standard for relief from a design waiver per mlul section 40 col 55 d-5 1B is that the board yourselves May Grant a design waiver if quote the literal enforcement or one of more of the provisions of the ordinance is impracticable or will exact an undue hardship because of peculiar conditions pertaining to the land in question is it reasonable in this standard it's a reasonable departure from the criteria right and all the departures that are proposed are reasonable in your opinion correct yes we are not out of the ballpark on anything we're close to the standards or meeting uh many standards and the applicant other than the designed waivers and the variances that are set forth on the plan the applicant is willing to comply with the comments of Mr CLE and Mr Peters and uh I believe her name is Sharon correct except as you've testified to yes and theyve requested applicant will comply with many and many of the uh notes where Mr Peters uh and Mr C say or request applicant shall revise a plan or request a waiver the applicants is requesting those waivers just a couple more issues real quick um the uh the delivery trucks that will be coming to the site are box trucks correct yes box truck box trucks are uh FedEx size maybe a little bit larger UPS size uh usually a little smaller than the su3 vehicle that we've shown uh the Turning movement on sheet 13 that's a single unit that's a that's a large box truck and there's not going to be any outdoor storage correct correct okay and um and as indicated you will comply with the other comments that are set forth in the various review letters correct y yeah we comply with those and any other local outside Ang requirements and just quick recap Ocean County planning board approved the project August 2023 ocean Soil Conservation District approved at December 20th 23 Ocean County Health Department approved it uh November 20th 23 uh Jackson Fire District approv it December 1st 2023 Jackson Township mua water and sore service ability letter uh was granted on November 9th 2023 and I'll be happy to answer any questions from the board or Mr CLE or uh Mr Peters if I haven't on I'm sure I missed thank you Mr Mr Cay um Ju Just just a couple um yes sir the um uh you'll pay into the fund for the um absence of the sidewall pedestrian fund and um all signage will comply oh yes uh there are two signs shown their 30 foot setback the ordinance has setback uh size requirements according to how far they're set back they're both set back at 30 feet and the applicant is requesting a waiver since he's on two streets he's allowed two signs inter terally internally illuminated they'll comply with all the height and size requirements but he's requesting that uh he has both of the signs on North County linee Road instead of one sign on North County Line Road and one sign on Forest Hill Avenue just for better exposure on the County highy Route 526 but the area and the height will comply correct and um the applicants correct in that um he would allow be have two signs one on each one on each Frontage um and he's requesting that both the two signs more or less front on North North County Line which makes sense because I don't really think that um bars um Hills is really high traveled High traveled uh roadway um and the only other question and um Mr Peter's pointed out to me can you talk about the intersection offset between the Forest Hills uh driveway driveway and North County Line Road I think 100 ft's required by ordinance and I'm seeing maybe 25 30 yes uh now that uh is a section of the design standards whereby the nearest uh actually it it actually does I made a mistake uh asking for a waiver a design waiver for that specific uh uh separation distance from the center line of the street because that uh Mr Peters pointed out is uh a appes to a parking lot which has I believe 50 or more spaces 50 or more spaces in the lot nevertheless uh the nearest uh uh ordinance section 244 197 F2 a3b access drives talking about Forest Hill Avenue access Drive once again 24 foot wide two-way Drive aisle uh has shall not be located closer than 100 feet to the nearest RightWay line of an intersecting Street 100 ft and in our case this is 41 and a half fet uh so 100 feet is required for a larger uh parking area than ours 50 spaces or more uh and we are providing 41.5 uh8 sorry five feet once again I would point out the fact number one uh uh the applicant is requesting a design waiver or a maybe explanation to the concern that Mr Peters had with the design number one there's a 30 by 100 uh sight triangle easement at the intersection of Forest Hill Avenue North North County Line Road whereby if a car is sitting at the intersection looking to the north this larger triangle gives him adequate sight distance to the north uh to see approaching Vehicles speed limits 40 miles an hour uh the county uh also asked for a sight triangle that we would uh make an ashro sight triangle in this case uh which we did we provided one for the same type of a vehicle exiting at the North County Line Road uh egress providing them sufficient sight distance to the north up County Lane Road is Forest Hill a heavily traveled or a lightly traveled Road the best of knowledge I would say it's a major road through Jackson no no no not County Line talking about Forest H oh I'm sorry Forest Hill there's not a lot of traffic on Forest Hill Road the three times I was there does that address your concerns thank thank you thank you that that's all thank you question is there any reason you can't move that access point further away put it at the other end of the parking lot did that increase your yield in parking it is there any detriment to the plan by moving it further away to the other end yes we designed a uh throughput type of a aisle that lined up with the two uh streets so that it would provide a a better operational vehicular circulation flow through the site thank you any questions from the board Mr Herer yeah back to sheet 13 and we I know you did briefly touch upon trucks deliveries Etc so you're depicting here I'm seeing e can you point out the Ingress how you plan on entering maybe showing it on the map with your laser pointer pointing out pointing out deliveries how they going to ENT s deliveries Etc sure sheet 13 so Anthony can you bring up the last sheet [Music] 133 so in this case you'll see this is a preemptive kurn maneuver the uh box truck third which is considered an su3 uh as shown in this diagram would pull into the site heading south on North County Line Road come into the northern driveway pull into drive aisle partially back is truck up into the loading area load unload and then exit out of the same driveway to the South okay so you're saying 30 foot is going to be the maximum size that you're going to be expecting for this side yeah and I wouldn't even say that they're going to be that that large most of the time most of the time be smaller like a UPS truck or FedEx truck significantly shorter wheelbase and greater turn ingredients right because it is retail right they're going to have they're filling their stores up with some kind of trucks not only UPS what happens if a container comes with 40 um a 40 foot container truck like a like a semi I didn't do a terming template I could get a technician to show you something we don't I mean the thought was that it would we would not have semis on the site you know the idea is not to bring a semi on the site um so the applicant I think would stipulate to you know a smaller truck being utilized for deliveries that's not a problem for the applicant right right and blocking the cars in the parking lot as well oh yeah right and while we're on the loading maybe applicant is sliate to stipulate sorry to the outdoor seating if none of it should potentially flow over to the Loading area the restaurant is being right there correct so or is it on the other side the restaurant restaurant is to the sou oh okay next to the outdoor seat yeah we have the applicant has no problem stipulating that the delivery trucks will not be semis you know they will be smaller box type trucks that that we agree to miss deara did I see you interested in asking a question thank you um is this this is where the um the taco truck is right now yes that's where it is yes and so that won't obviously that won't be there anymore correct correct yeah you can't talk you'll have a chance not not yet soon yes we're almost there we're almost there I can and operationally how how often do you expect to have trucks come is that going to be a daily thing do we know well I'll defer that to the applicant one thing that the was asked in the engineer and planner letter were the frequency and type of removal for trash and recyclables that a private hauler once a week for recyclables and trash so probably generate that much as far as the deliveries go Jose can testify any other questions from the board gentlemen are okay all right thank you yes could it would it be possible to have um um trees in planters well what I would say is we're going to comply with the certified tree expert to everywhere accept that area and as to that area we would be willing to sit down with the certified tree expert and accommodate uh her concerns with regard to the rest of the site so if she wants additional planning in the rest of the site because this area is going to be free for tables fine with us so we can't right it's a yeah okay appreciate that thank you over by m they've gots bring and out honestly that stuff looks a lot better than a tree that's to get the off half a buildings whatever tree out in a concrete how far it get well so let's just go back to that for a sec so which which condition in the uh so it's her item number e she says revise the plan to provide plant materials within the open area at the southeast corner of the building to reduce unnecessary lawn and its maintenance okay so she wanted plants in there like shrubs or ground cover to replace what she thought was lawn it looks like all right so so so here's where we're at with this so This goes back to uh the conversation that we had a couple meetings ago against of requirements for his recommendations all right when it comes down to some of these Outside Agency uh approvals and and letters um so due to the fact there's no I don't believe that this is a statute or code or or ordinance that's required for you said it was e right all right so we can view this as a recommendation at that point if we view it as a recommendation and the board may want to take a vote on this but we view it as a recommendation the board has the ability of then um of then allowing a waiver to take place all right yeah so so the the um it's paragraph e of the Forester reports revised the plans to provide plant materials within the open area at the southeast corner of the building to reduce unnecessary lawn and its maintenance now there's no statute there's no code there's no ordinance there's nothing that's specified into this which without having conversation with the Forester leads me to believe this is just a recommendation it would be similar like the fire department making a recommendation that trees be planted along X Y and Z if it's not the fire code then it's kind of really a recommendation now the board has it's got a you know maybe this is a a good situ sitation that we have here to figure out you know what we want to do in this type of situation moving forward U but if the board views it as a recommendation because it's not fundamentally required by a code or statute or ordinance or or anything of that nature then I mean we have the ability of determining whether it's reasonable or not could we ask that the um applicant uh revisit the u tree expert and and explain a little better what what the use of that area is and then get an agreement from the tree expert that she what I think would be better so we don't have a problem we go to her and then she has a different idea and then maybe we have to come back here maybe we get the waiver with the stipulation that we're going to put in some potted plants to beautify the area I mean she doesn't want grass there anyway she wants plantings so we'll put in appropriate potted plants per season uh in that area so as to allow it to be a nice that's nice little outdoor seating area with PL sounds good to me yeah so we're willing to do that what does everyone else think so think or trees yeah yeah so so we would ask for the waiver and we'll stipulate that will uh we'll appropriately put in potted plants Andor flowers as the season May dictate you know to to complement the seaing area yeah thank you any other comments from the board at this time yes he is yeah all right so why don't we move on testimony thank you very much for your testimony um Mr architect want to come real quick and if Anthony could put up the architecturals and if Mr Feldman could be sworn yep all right please raise your right hand do you swear or affirm to tell the truth the whole truth nothing but the truth I do all right please state your name and spell your last of the record David Feldman f l d m principal architect of Feldman and Feldman Architects Wall Township New Jersey all right new credentials I've been a licensed architect since [Music] 1993 uh licensed in approximately 12 to 15 states up and down the East Coast uh I've appeared before this board in the past as well as uh many others throughout uh ocean and Mammoth County all right and the board accepts the credentials I'm sorry welcome thank you Miss Fel would you would you uh architecturally describe uh the building the proposed surfaces and if you want to you can also refer to your colored I know you did a colored rendering that we didn't get a chance to get in by way of a PDF but if you would take us through that okay so what we prepared was a um a shopping center consisting of five units uh the building footprint is uh 100x 50 uh each of the units is one is 5050 by 20 uh creating a th square foot unit um as previously stated the unit to the South um which the intention is to be utilized as a restaurant um the truck that's currently on site um is hoping to move into there um and we also and we provided that particular unit to have a basement um that unit in terms of the basement would be solely used for storage of supplies of um coolers as as previously uh talked about um and 1,000 square feet is not a very big store so if you take a th000 square feet especially for a restaurant you put a uh cooking facility in there you put some counter in there you put a couple tables in there it doesn't leave uh a heck of a lot of room for for storage of supplies and and food um freezers as well they would be in the basement that is correct and so by creating the basement it's actually going to reduce the amount of um trucks that would have to come as frequently um creating an a space where they could store uh whether it be refrigerated items or frozen items or or paper goods um will reduce the um the traffic with the uh the trucks coming onto the site the other unit to the north is also intended to have a basement as well um that unit uh the intention is that the applicant will occupy that unit um currently he occupies the business that is on that property now as a painting um facility and he can and he like to continue to utilize that and again um have some storage So when you say painting facility it's his office for his painting business correct yes that is cor he's not doing any painting there that is correct okay just want to clarify the other three units um um are designed to be a slab on grade and that would be a th square foot um unit um and I'm not sure if the applicant has somebody already um if not he will comply with the with the ordinance and the Zone um for whatever use that will go into that building excuse me may I ask is there will there be any flammables stored in that uh building no paint no we'll make a representation but I I'll Mr Angeles testify just wanted to make sure thank you okay it's currently an office if you've ever been in there it's welcome to go in uh a as for the architectural uh considerations regarding the uh your professionals reports um the drawings that I brought with me this evening addresses those um hence the drawings that are up on the screen do not so the building height um we already we indicated on the plan that's currently shown and the maximum height is going to be just under about 22 ft 23 ft in height which is well under what your ordinance allows um the rear elevation uh for some reason when we submitted those plans um we omitted the doors to the rear of the unit uh or units there's a walkway that goes around the entire uh structure so as previously testified when the loading takes place on the North End of the property uh they will be able to go down around the back of the building and load from the rear of the building as to not to disrupt anything going on in the front of the building so there will be five doors in the back there are correct there are as shown on the revised plan yes in addition to that there's a door at each of the ends the south end and the North End of the building which will allow access to the basements as well as access to those basements through the units themselves could you tell us what the architectural finishes will be uh yeah so what we're depicting on the uh the north side and the south side which would I'm sorry the uh the north and east side which would face um the two streets is there would be a brick veneer and a brick water table across the bottom of the building um and then a cedar impression uh shingle on top with a nice cornice detail uh on the on the top of the building in addition to that the new rendering that we submitted as well um indicates the wallpack lighting fixtures as part of the engineers report and there will also be some gooseneck lighting that will accent the the signage on the uh the buildings anything else uh the only other thing would be the signage on the buildings um is going to conform to your ordinance uh you're allowed um 15% of the uh building facade which equates to about 375 Square ft in total or 80 Square ft per unit which whichever is uh less the 375 divided by five gives you approximately 75 Square fet per unit um and we would to that as well and is this a significant aesthetic enhancement in your opinion over what is currently on the site oh it is thank you any questions any questions from the professionals Mr Peters this is the time um before we get off the architect's testimony I think we should probably discuss the outdoor seating um I have a responsibility to bring up issues to you folks you don't need to take my advice um that's the reason we have open public hearings um my main concern for the outdoor seating area is safety it's four feet from where cars are between the outdoor seating area and the curb is 4 foot a sidewalk that's it we should consider ballards in the locations where Vehicles might be able to cross the curb and the sidewalk and enter into that area um there should be consideration as to whether or not some sort of decorative fencing would delineate that area so people don't walk in and walk out um I don't know I guess I could ask is is it anticipated that this particular restaurant will have a liquor license no okay so if it had a liquor license outdoor seating that's a problem um I I would add the fact that I I was T I was listening earlier when you were talking about the plantings um we could design the Planters to go around the perimeter of the seating area and act almost as a ballister in itself to the uh to deter a car think that's a great idea um but I leave it to the board because they're not they're probably in width 18 inches or two feet so you're going to take some area away from this quite frankly small outdoor seating area but my responsibility to the board and the public is safety so if in the areas you think a car might be able to enter that area we put something up and at least we could say you know what we can't stop all the things in the world that bad that are bad from happening but at least we protected this particular area in a location where the vehicles might be able to just jump the curb and unfortunately hurt someone the applicant is willing to uh certainly have the architect sit down with Mr Peters and come up with a solution whether it's ballards or whether it's a combination of some kind of Ballard that's a planter you know I'm not sure exactly available and entrance to the uh outdoor seating would only take place from the interior of the restaurant that's another uh safety feature if they had to go inside to be to go outside inside I'm seeing everyone shake their head except for the architect to design the [Laughter] plans yeah I mean I'm well the reason I didn't shake my head I mean you know we're we're actually showing Windows facing on to Foster okay yes we could certainly make those doors um to go in in and out of the restaurant and maybe perhaps one of them would be a door but to make that the only way in and out of that outdoor seating area I think is a bad idea um you have people that might want to go back to their car to grab something um they don't want to go back through the restaurant you have an emergency perhaps inside the restaurant you don't want to force people to go back into the restaurant to get out and around so I think I think to make to stipulate that being the only means of getting onto that outdoor you know we're not talking 100 people we're talking maybe 10 people 12 people so if if you had a break in the um design around just up close to the building you could have some access egress and access from a break but but the portion that goes down and around close to the uh the parking would be parking area would be blocked agreed okay I I have one question sir I might be using the wrong language here um where are the areas that we're talking about putting planted in as a deterrent a car going through it's only two or three spaces could you put curb stops for the cars in those spots we could I think that would really be a real addition just three curb stops whatever the space is in front of it right so the applicant stipulates to ballards and curb stops yes and the last thing is I while Mr Felman started saying you know get 10 or 12 people perhaps out there I just remind the board that that's additional folk showing up in cars I don't want to necessarily say that they have to provide additional parking because it'll be very seasonal just remember that having more area it's a thousand square foot building half of it going to be a kitchen the other half the seating we're going to put another 50% of that outside so just remember that may also require additional parking at the end of my conversation with the board I think the outdoor seating is a great idea I just think we need to try to make it safe thank you thank you and and the applicant also stipulates to putting um one of those windows as a door just to go in it up yes sorry one more small thing about the outdoor seating are you planning I know Mr Peter said something about seasonal is it seasonal or are you doing this the whole year are you planning on I I'll let the applicant testify to that I I don't know what the intent is if not we're talking heat sources warming the exteria ETC we'll seasonal but he will testify to that thank you question can you just tell me where the where the signs are going to be on on which so so if you look above the doors and and where the three goose neck lights are above each of the doors that's where the signage would go for each store yes and that's for each each store will have their own but you wanted additional signage I think or no uh no each store will be allowed I think by your ordinance 75 square feet okay it was approximately testimony by the engineer that there would be two stanion signs on the site you know on either end okay and that too will comply to your ordinance okay thank you okay on up that gotta raise your right hand all right do you swear or affirm they tell the truth the whole truth nothing about the truth all right please stay your name and spell your last for the record my name is Jose Angeles j e uh a n g l s Mr Angeles uh currently you operate a uh you have a you own this site correct yes through an LSC and you operate your business on the site correct yes and what is it just describe what is your business your painting painter I'm a painter and that's just an office uh people come and you know uh semic contracts they can you know they have anything we discusses in there and we have a little display in there like go for tilling and little things like that what we do all right but there's no uh you don't store any materials at the I want storage materials now okay and on the new site uh the you plan to use the uh the end unit all the way to the right for your current painting business correct as an office yes and no storage of any flammable materials correct nope would be stored in the basement um basically it will be you know what we use on the office uh paper um you know miscellania we use on the office okay um and the other side where the restaurant is uh who who's going to run that restaurant my son my son runs the food truck right now so his dream is to have a restaurant so I'm helping to you know I plus he does an excellent job okay and the uh you've heard the testimony by the architect that the the area below would be storage and also for refrigeration Mechanicals those kinds of things is that correct yep that's what we're looking to do the freezer on the on the basement and you know storage or you know and you're stipulating that both these sides would be used both basement would be used for storage Andor some kind of Mechanicals if needed correct yes and nothing else nothing else okay and uh you've heard the testimony about the outoor seating U tell us about that you agree to ballards right like uh I'm agree to do for safety whatever we can do the concrete uh things with the called Bard right yep or I can do some kind of concrete on the center and dress it out with some flowers on the top so it's safe okay whatever the architect you know proposed to be safe okay and uh how many people do you anticipate I don't think we can feed more than two or three tables okay and that would be seasonal only correct yes yes okay um and uh any other comments or questions so you're not going to be operating the uh restaurant all year round it's just going to be no the rest we operate all year round except for the outside the outside yeah okay thank you what's on the menu huh what's on the menu whatever we have on the truck po little exas well if someone wants to sit out there and freeze in cold no one's stoping what's the name of the food truck well we close November when it gets cold we close the truck so they can come inside then right that's why we going to do the restaurant yes now need a take out and traffic is last Scott you want to come up thank you oh wait wait wait he's got a question for yes thank you it's a dream come through thank you so let me tell you something very briefly about Jose he came here at what age 19 and how much money did you have in your pocket when you came to America nothing nothing and what do you think of this place this is this is my country this is I'm here almost 38 years um became a US citizen 15 years ago um you know I'm so happy leing here thank you [Music] yeah canel one other one other one I would have been here for three of them but uh you again do you swear or affirm to tell the truth the whole truth and nothing but the truth yes I do all right Scott Kennel there you go Ken EO with McDon and Ray Associates okay Mr kennel could you summarize what you did uh with regard to this application and what your conclusions were yes uh we prepared a report dated July 18 2023 and it's basically a traffic statement which speaks to existing conditions in the area as well as traffic projections based on the intended use and we projected traffic um approximately 35 trips during the peak hour the PM peak hour I would say the most critical thing here is with this site today it has uncontrolled access so with this land use plan we're creating two defined controlled access points one on County Line Road and the other one on um the side street uh and then as far as the parking 40 parking spaces or 38 physical parking spaces in my opinion is going to be more than adequate when you consider the type of uses where we're going to have a variety of uses here which don't always have all coincidental Peaks so it's my opinion the fact fact that you're going to have an office in a one end a restaurant and some other retail uses that there's going to be kind of a shared parking that there'll be more than adequate parking based on the Dynamics that would exist and as was discussed uh the site's been designed to accommodate delivery vehicles that'll service the site as well as um emergency vehicles and refuge vehicles um and most important thing is we as we had Ocean County approval so the fact that they've reviewed and acknowledged the design proposed and approved that I think is uh you know critical element in the review of this matter as well um that's all I have to offer thank you thank you all right oh write the microphone okay no it's just the uh yep there's a de hang hang on so so this is just going to be for cross-examination questions of the experts that that presented so if you want to give a general statement about something or that that'll be the next part um but I'll swing you in so please raise your raise your hand uh do you swear or affirm to tell the truth the hold truth nothing but the truth of the record right please state your name and spell your last of the record L all right and your address 21 P okay is that better right now my only concern was the the sight line going down County Line when he went through the pictures of the Landscaping what's going right on County Line what what size plants or did I miss it I'm not sure Anthony can you please bring up sheet five so sheet five is a landscaping plan and shows the proposed plant you could see is that the shoulder that you're this is the shoulder here the proposed curb line right and this is the sight triangle easement uh so the uh requirement in a site triangle easement that no trees or shrubs 2 and A2 feet or or higher or lower than 10 feet be placed within the site triangle easement right and you could see that there's no shrubs or trees only lawn in that area so if you're stopped here at a car looking North no trees or shrubs are in what's that distance right there it's a 30 I think believe there's been some uh dedications to the county over here but it was designed what looks to me it's approximately a 30 by 100t sight triangle which is much larger by the way provides a bigger sight radius than an astro sight triangle which is smaller which is been shown to provide yeah CU it's 40 m hour right there that's my only concern yep it's 40 miles an hour and that's what our site triangle was designed for as well 40 mil an hour yeah right I'm just I'm just worried about the the Forest Avenue view you know what I mean that's the side street Forest Hill right yep that's where everybody from the neighborhood comes out and hangs all right that's all so M sir normally vehicle will stop right and his eyesight will be approximately 14.4 feet behind the extended uh curb line okay and he will be looking up at a line that's 10 times the speed limit approximately 400 feet that's what forms the angle and that gives him 2 and a half seconds of reaction time in order to stop or go uh according to ashto this site triangle provides more than that okay okay that was all cuz I I remember just seeing the bushes and the things I was like okay that was it man I just want to make sure I get hit you know two points first is I concur with everything that Mr bleta said second this is governed by the county Mr molini your client has to get an approval from the county before Mr CLE can sign off on the plans that include the existing site triangle eement correct so I just sir I just wanted you to know that we have the approval already two three professionals sitting here tonight have reviewed that site triangle to make sure that it's adequate so that as you pull up to the Stop Bar you can see sufficiently up the road right as a condition of the approval they still have to go back to the county who who maintains County Line Road and get their approval again of the same thing that already exists okay I could see great M but there's nothing there yeah and it's it's a stat requirement as well so so they have to provide that if they don't then it doesn't work okay yeah that's it seeing no one else come forward I move to close the public cross examination second I any comment at all particular anybody for General seeing no one come forward I move the close to General testimony on this application second all in favor I would you like to sum up I think we'll submit we've had enough I think I think we've all had enough we've missed at least half the Yankees game already ENT a motion or is there any second Mr brzy yes I think it was very well presented application very thorough and the cooperation was great and very clean application thank you I vote Yes Mr marzo yes I vote yes thank you Mr heler yes Mr rker Miss Rose yes thank you very much for your completeness Mr Sullivan yes and I'd like to congratulate the applicant and thank him for bringing such a wonderful proposal to this board Dr Kim yes and I'd like to know when you're going to start building [Laughter] good news because I have two very close watermalon friends who are up there all the time and they will be looking forward to sitting inside for a change tell your son we like guacamole yeah thank you very much and congratulations motion to close motion to close second all in favor