e e e e e e e e e e e e e e e e e e e e e e e e e we're going to call this meeting to order please stand for the Pledge of Allegiance I pledge allegiance to the flag of the United States of America and to the Republic for which it stands one nation under God indivisible with liberty and justice for all good evening ladies and gentlemen pursuing to njsa 10 4 the open public meetings act notice of this duly and regularly scheduled meeting of the Jackson Township zoning Board of adjustment has been published and posted in all appropriate locations okay can we have roll call please here Mr Stafford Smith here Mr book here Mr Hudak here miss Parnes here Mr Heyman here Dr hin here miss fr here M Bradley here I believe we have resolutions this evening Mr Murphy that's correct we have six resolutions this evening so if the board will just bear with me uh the first resolution this evening resolution number 20242 this is the resolution of the zoning board granting preliminary and final major site plan approval with use variants to construct a Mika and EMS building on property located at Grand Avenue and East Veterans Highway block 19703 Lots one and two eligible to vote are Mr Stafford Smith Mr Heyman Miss parz Miss FR and Miss Bradley move to approve second thank you roll call please Mr Stafford Smith yes Miss Parnes yes Mr Heyman yes Miss FR yes Miss Bradley yes second we have resolution 2024-25 this is the resolution of the zoning board granting preliminary and final minor subdivision approval with use variance on property located at 22 through 26 Toms River Road Block 17206 Lots 39 and 41 eligible to vote are Mr Hurley Mr Hudak Mr Stafford Smith Miss Parnes Miss frit and Miss Bradley second roll call please Mr Hurley yes Mr Stafford Smith yes Mr Hudak yes Miss Parnes yes Miss FR yes Miss Bradley yes resolution number 2024 d23 this is the resolution of the zoning board uh granting sign variance approval on property located at 515 Mammoth Road Block 3000 1.01 lot 3.01 eligible to vote are Mr Hurley Mr Stafford Smith Mr book Miss Parnes Mr Heyman Miss frit and Miss Bradley move to approve second roll call please Mr Hurley yes Mr Stafford Smith yes Mr B yes Miss pares yes Mr Heyman yes Miss frit yes Miss Bradley yes resolution number 2024-25 eligible to vote Mr Hurley Mr Stafford Smith Mr book Miss Parnes Mr Heyman Miss frit and Miss Bradley motion to approve second roll call please Mr Hurley yes Mr Stafford Smith yes Mr book yes Miss Parnes yes Mr Heyman yes Miss Rich yes Miss Bradley yes resolution 20 24-25 this is the resolution of the zoning board granting amended site plan approval to convert the use of a maintenance building to a recreation use on property located at Mammoth Road Block 30001 Lots 2 three and four eligible to vote uh are Mr Hurley Mr Stafford Smith Mr book Miss Parnes Mr Heyman Miss frit and Miss Bradley motion to approve second roll call please Mr Hurley yes Mr staffer Smith yes Mr book yes Miss Parnes yes Mr Heyman yes Miss frit yes Miss Bradley yes and finally we have resolution 2024-25 this is the resolution of the zoning board granting variance relief for an installed pool filter at 10 ft to the side property line where 20 ft is required and for the location of an existing 10x12 shed no closer than 8 ft to the rear inside property lines where 15 ft is required on property located at 20 Arrow arrows head Circle uh that is block 11803 lot five eligible to vote are Mr Hurley Mr Stafford Smith Mr book Miss Parnes Mr Hyman Miss frit and Miss Bradley motion to approve second roll call please Mr Hurley yes Mr Stafford Smith yes Mr books yes Miss Parnes Mr Hyman yes M frch yes Miss Bradley yes that concludes the resolutions for this evening okay I believe we also have minutes this evening uh Elizabeth February 21st and March the 20th second roll call please Mr Hurley yes Mr Stafford Smith yes Mr book yes Mr Hudak yes Miss Parnes Miss FR yes Miss Bradley yes I also have a voucher in front of me from the township of Jackson for the recoring secretary for the evening um for $175 I need a motion and a second to approve paying the bill please I'll make a motion to approve roll call please Mr Hurley yes Mr staffer Smith yes Mr book yes Mr Hudak yes Miss Parnes Miss FR yes Miss Bradley yes Mr Murphy do we have any announcements this evening okay so we'll start with application number one this evening which is uh James and Bridget Sarah and I apologize s sarino variance 3504 uh that application has been withdrawn uh and a resolution marking same withdrawn will be prepared um as to application number two 30 cville Road Carol neolo that's use variance 3470 that has been that is being carried to the August 21st 2024 meeting of the Jackson Township Zoning Board of adjustment there will be no additional notice uh so if you're here for that application uh please note that uh application number 230 cville Road uh Carol Carol noo use Varian 3470 is being carried to August 21st 2024 no additional notice the applicant has weave of time me the board will just bear with me for a moment thank you application number three Moshi and Lisa Weiss variance 3502 that application is being carried to the July 17th 2024 meeting of the Jackson Township Zoning Board of adjustment uh no further notice will be required the applicant has waved time um again if you're here for that application please take not July 17 2024 and then we have application number five uh which is James Hughes 280 Faraday Avenue amended site plan 261-1378 that application is being placed on hold um so when the revised plans are ready um they will Ren notice um so that application is sort of uh in limbo at the moment um um still pending uh but the plans are being revised once we have those revised plans that application will be Reen noticed um so that leaves only application number four uh GTB realy LLC cville Tavern which is amended site plan 23 A-1 uh on this evening's agenda so Mr Murphy we need to swear in the professionals gentlemen if you if you would please raise your right hands do you Solly swear affirm that testimony information questions or comments they are about to present before the board will represent the truth the whole truth and nothing but the truth yes yes if you would each please State your names and positions with the board Evan Hill Board engineer Ernie Peters board planner Jeffrey Pororo zoning officer thank you gentlemen EX any matters for discussion this evening Mr Murphy I have no matters for discussion Madam chair and no administrative approvals no administrative approvals Madam chair okay we are going to move forward to what is listed as application number four applicant is GTB reality LLC catville Tavern this is amended site plan 23 A-1 Block 11602 lot 28 excuse me good evening ladies and gentlemen my name is Thomas DS 101 North felta Street South Amber New Jersey on behalf of General's Tav on behalf of GTB realy which will be trading as General's Tavern eventually um this is an application by the applicant to basically he's in the process of renovating the cville in and has done a substantial amount of work with permits but we now come into the issue that we are um going to be Paving the parking lot we need to get the approvals before you and a number of number of of both variances uh I'm going to have testy will be Mr stepen pelli he's the he's the principal of GTB realy I will have uh Shri kada who is the engineer John ryer my traffic engineer and Gordon Gemma who's my planner who is probably stuck on Route n in traffic somewhere okay if I could just interrupt you forgive me for being rude and just ask you to hold the microphone up the Acoustics in here stink and yell if you have to we won't be offed that much better okay thank you okay so my first witness will be Mr pelli Mr Murphy if you can swear him in absolutely Mr DS I don't know if you'd like you you you're more than welcome to have a seat at the okay table sit as mayor witness okay it's much more comfortable I promise [Music] absolutely good evening sir if you would if you would please yep you're on you're not no you're not uh on the bottom be dead that you're good okay good evening Sur I'm not technical that's if you would please raise your right hand do you solemnly swear or affirm that the testimony information questions or comments that you're about to present before the board will represent the truth the whole truth and nothing but the truth yes um this is a fact when it's correct Mr DS yes sir yes sir if you would please state your name spell your last provide your uh address and your affiliation to this application your name Steve pelli spell your last name p and Peter i e l l o i Thomas you live I live at 107 Walkins roen Alp in New Jersey and are you the property owner or what is your position with GG GTB realy I'm the owner of the property and the legal license you're the you're the sole so sole member of the Corp of the of the llc's is that correct yes okay very good thank you so much he Mr pelli you purchased the cvill in is that correct yes I did and as a result of your purchasing it you uh when you when you bought it you indicated that it needed a substantial amount of repairs to to renovate the building which hasn't been renovated in probably close to 40 years is that correct correct extreme work okay and during the course of that it became to our attention that you need to get some uh come before the board to get some approvals for uh for for variances for some bulk variances and whatnot is that correct yes sir okay now uh what do you intend to how do you intend to use the C fill in for Family Restaurant and uh somewhat of a Tavern but mostly Family Restaurant we had other ones and uh so we're just going to repeat what we did before okay you were you Mr D I'm just going to remind you both if you would again I apologize the Acoustics in here you might as well just hold the microphone up to your mouth like this Mr because we can't hear you Mr Murphy I was a prosecutor in in cille and I couldn't hear the judge sitting with the where the secretary is but the people in the back could hear everything going on so exact I understand I can't hear my board members that sit over there sometimes so I get it all right so your family at one time own General Saloon in Albridge is that correct correct yes me and the family and can and can you tell uh me what how what you did with General Saloon in Oldbridge we bought it as the Raz Zone it was just a a bar with uh shot and a beer joint we converted it to a family restaurant for several holidays throughout the year and weekly menus that were cated to children and you know kids menus and family dinners on Wednesday nights or Friday nights and we had a a restaurant okay and you also you serve pizza is that correct yes and then you like burgers uh Burgers uh Pub grub is that correct correct okay uh and is that what you proposed to do at at the cville end correct yes so you're basically taking your your business plan from oldrid and moving it to Jackson uh pretty much yes okay now is there uh the various um things that you've that you've done to this property at this point is that correct um we got a permits to remove all the trees from the town they approved it we put money in escaro we have permit to surround the property with the fences which you did already to basically hide any noise or anything as we're working and doing what kind of fence is it sir uh it's a 6ot fence that the town said that we needed what what what is what is the fence constructed of wood okay it's a barrier fence okay and um you also int had had to redo the septic system on the property is that correct yes the Ocean County approved the system the commercial system and it's actually installed already okay and then um and now now after you've installed the septic system now now now you're looking to to do to uh basically upgrade the parking lot right yes anybody what do you intend to do there uh we got tentative approvement from Ocean County to uh uh sobody they they're aware of the parking spaces so we putting a storm water drain uh we submitted plans about four months ago and they came back to us and the storm water underground system had to be expanded like 5 or 10% we changed the plans around and submitted it to them and so we're waiting on them to come back and uh approved that to go ahead with the in ground storm water system that connects to Jackson Township storm water drains are along the main road okay now is there um you the property that is uh up West Veterans Highway adjacent to the uh to to the cville in you're you're the owner of those properties also is that correct yes uh I bought the two pro the ne houses next to it so we wouldn't uh have any uh problems to say or anybody saying the noise so I bought the adjacent properties and we're remodeling them as it is and and originally you were working off of the what you believe to be the 1975 approval that the prior owner received yes the John and Marilyn got approved pretty much for all this in 1975 but of course time goes on and we have to upgrade everything to code and they didn't have anything with lighting or Ada parking or anything so that's part of all the improvements that we're doing at this point okay and then when when the um the owners of the cville in they when when they own the place they also own the property that was across the street on West Veterans Highway is that correct yes and one of the resolutions or the plans that you saw from 1975 indicated that they had parking across the street correct and since then since that that time the county has widened West Veterans Road highway is that correct yes and so that's it's and you have you have did not purchase the property on the other side of the street no so you all your parking then is going to be going to be in the area of your uh of of your property that's uh adjacent to the cville in correct we're trying to up upgrade and come up the code on which they were approved in 1975 and is there um and you are doing renovations to the building itself is that correct correct and you're Mo modernizing all of that I guess we're waiting for everything the town has all our plans and engineering and Structural Engineering I guess we're going to take it apart and put it back together okay I have no other questions of uh Mr pelli at this time Mr book Mr just so I understand the geography a little bit better the the the lot across from you is vac that's the lot on the other side of West Veterans Highway did you say you own that too no I do not you do not own that do not own that anymore you never you never owned it never owned it no sir that was one time associated with the folks across West correct John and Maryland they own that property but I guess years ago they went for the variance to take down the trees like I did and put the park in there so I have all the plans were approved in 75 for that but I guess they never choose to do it because they owned the grocery Street and they just never did it so they sold it before I purchased that so if I understand your testimony then the parking now as you plan is all going to be contained within that particular lot no need to cross West Veterans Highway is going to be one in Lan into your lot off of our cille correct yes sir any other questions for this witness what was the name of the place in Oldbridge General salon thank you that's just for my own personal Mr Hurley just that purposes of record noticed in the application number of zoning 1996 by the please use your microphone sorry now it's well now it's on I'm sorry I had the wrong button again as usual there were there are two resolutions that I've seen one by the planning board one by the zoning board appears one in 1996 is that the latest uh board approval Mr Hurley to answer that question we didn't realize it was a 1996 appr approval until until your your your professional staff refed the application okay well my my question is basically this is an application some bulk variances and amended site plan correct yes sir okay who granted the site plan that would have been 1975 with the planning board I believe and my question is are are they rightfully here if this is an if this is an amended site plan and there are bulk variances required do we even have jurisdiction to do that I mean arguably yes because there's bulk variances required but the planning board can also Grant those same bulk variances it was my understanding from when from the Inception of this application because there were both boards had a some action over the years right we decided to keep it with the zoning board and and but do we have the legal authority to keep it I don't have I don't that's the question really I mean if there's an I just want to make sure that if in fact there's an appeal we got a problem here I want to get that straight for the record Madam chair um you may be a witness away or the applicant's attorney wants to weigh in or get a witness up here leave the properties in the NC Zone and bars restaurants taverns aren't permitted in the NC Zone so regardless of what it was in 96 or 75 in 2024 it appears it's a non-permitted use so unless someone shows us something different in 2024 it appears that it's a non-conforming use so whether it's a use variance or the expansion of a non-conforming use and I don't know if the applicants attorney or planner is ready to discuss that or not but the use would be allowed to continue would it not under the ml if it's a non-conform pre-existing non-conforming use the answer is yes but we're look is there an ex is there a proposed expansion to that use by way of this particular application I'm looking for a copy and I don't the problem is I don't I I I have not seen the 1996 resolution from the zoning board well if it is if it's expanding the used then then we're okay so long as a notti is Prov mrle I would I would submit that and I I know I know your expertise of being on the bench of middle sex for many years and I've been before you but uh the answer hope it was all good I'm sorry I hope it was all good oh it was it was it was it was uh sometimes adversarial and sometimes it it got the results but uh but by by and large sir uh it is an expansion of a previous previous non-conforming use so if so if we're looking at an expansion then we're okay before this zoning board the use is not is no longer permitted expansion of a non-conform use so would fall under the the D category in in in subsection 70 this board would have jurisdiction that's correct so I just want to make it clear that the application is not just for an amended site plan it's for an amended site plan and an expansion of a non-conforming use yes sir okay thank you for the chair for the chair uh couple questions well for this witness hours of operation what are the proposed hours of operation U Monday to Friday 11: in the morning Saturday from 11: to I Friday and Saturday 11: to 1 in the morning sorry Monday to Friday 11:00 a.m to when to uh midnight and Friday and Saturday 11 in the morning to 1 in the morning you're you're you're basically going to your hours if you you're going to conform to the or to the municipal ordinance for that that uh that handles liquor licens is that correct if you can I'm just going to opine for a moment on the prior issue so I'm looking at the resolutions here and it looks to me like the last resolution on this property was done in 1996 if I'm correct 199623 this was a resolution of the Zoning Board of adjustment Township of Jackson it's a zoning board resolution isn't it well whoever did this resolution noted that it was both zoning board and planning board so I couldn't Ernie I couldn't tell you what this is however I am going to assume you know I can I can only make an assum again there's references to both this was done by I could didn't tell you who but dassy Murphy and wellerson at the time um that references both the zoning board and the planning board um it appears to me that based upon the contents of the resolution that this is a zoning board resolution um and specifically something that you had pointed out to me was the fact that uh one of the first warehous Clauses states that this is a pre-existing non-conforming use which it is and therefore is uh obviously um Grant father then by the ml however um the last board to touch this particular application in in 1996 appears to me to be the zoning board uh and while the resolution itself doesn't particularly uh retain jurisdiction I would aine that based upon the fact that we were last ones to have have contact with it that we have jurisdiction's application and I further that's further supported by the fact that this is a pre-existing non-conforming use that would be my opinion on jurisdiction I think we have it sorry to throw you off your game but I wanted to get that on the record okay um what are what are the what are your anticipated number of employees per shift and how many shifts per day considering the the work ethic these days the the shifts could go as four hours to five hours to eight hours I mean the labor is probably the hardest part of the business usually five to six employ at a given time of uh the amount of customers are in sometimes it's a holiday weekend it's busier some days Mondays and Tuesdays it might be just a sports crowd you know so it's to give you an honest answer it's you know it's hard you know but from past experience in the other taverns I had some days you can't even keep up some days we'll stand there looking at each other but the average is five to six and our my my two kids usually work there on and off when we need help okay um do you do you rent any part of this building out for um for parties for weddings or is this solely a restaurant that's open it's a restaurant but the way the way John and Maryland had it set up they had a little outside area and so then depending on the holidays or somebody has a christening we can the way our plans are close the little outside Pavilion off for christening or kids birthday party or something like that yes that's what we've done in the past other places does the does the building close down does the restaurant close down as a result to the public no no it would be totally separate kitchen has uh different ways to get into that area and stuff like that okay accommodate for a small party outside or a holiday event we have holiday events so we do do different things Okay the reason I'm asking those types of question is because you're asking for a variance from the parking requirement you're asking because your site can't accommodate well because of the septic system the site can't accommodate the ordinance requirement for parking so a lot of cases we like we like to get a better understanding of how you are going to schedule and manage those types of events that occur simultaneous to the bar and pub and restaurant being open so um you're there's because you're the operator and the owner you will not allow people to park across the street because first of all it's not your property right but yeah uh you will self- police and make sure you schedule your events to make sure that there's adequate parking absolutely AB that's all I have for now any Mr Dr H chair um would this outdoor area be enclosed in a tent or or something like that um it need be out the outside area will have sizable umbrellas and a a garden with a a fire pit and a like a water feature most like a garden areas where they could serve food outside in outside existing Pavilion in other words hope for good weather if somebody has an outdoor yeah just to satisfy something I I looked up the the uh in was was was a building dating back to the 1700s as a stage coach stop correct and uh in 1982 became part of the national register of historic places um are you limited to what kind of changes you can make to the building one one of the reasons I bought the place is uh we searched and uh my attorney searched and John never paid the fees and never it never it just was was noted as one but it was never documented as one like the place next door to Delhi and stuff so we're not in uh the the guidelines of an historic place but we are keeping the inside box building the same just the outside and going back to like 1896 where have had the outside open walk around instead of the people standing outside by the road we opening get up like the general Saloon and Oldbridge to have the pillars and people can walk and uh open it up a little bit more just one more question uh like you change the name or would you keep it as a castle Tavern uh we're we changed the name already it's called it's going to be called General's Tavern disappointing I thought you would keep the name just jce is just an old time place in Jackson and everybody in this area knows about it there's going to be the main bar on the inside and there's going to be the outside little bar that'll have a couple garage doors but we're taking the old original bar and putting it over there with a lot of memorabilia even assigned from The Castle Tavern inside so you'll go back in history from when you go from one side to the other okay noted thank you thank you sir any addition Mr Peters thank you madam chair Mr P I want to talk a little bit about the outdoor area for no other reason to to understand what you're doing in almost most more importantly what you're not doing correct um you're serving liquor outside right correct so the area has to be enclosed in some form it will be fenced in yes it'll be fenced in yes um so there'll be a gate you'll have to enter the main uh entrance to the tavern to get there but I know through fire regulations we will have an emergency gate on the on the outside Pavilion okay at this point respectfully all we have is your engineers plan with a bunch of brick papers shown right is there a layout is there a maximum capacity a number of seats at some point in time standing room only you'd have cars parking anywhere so I'm trying to understand what the capacity of the outdoor seating area is as it relates to what the parking relief you're asking for is I believe it's going be approximately a third I'm sorry a third of the initial SE I'm trying to understand how many people how many patrons the initial area to to be outside I believe there's uh probably five tables of four outside and in an area in the bar area that's in the building there separate little bar will hold another seven to eight people so you talked about separate bar is there a bar outside of the building in the outdoor seating area or is it inside the building and it serves the outdoor seating area correct inside the building that serves the outside so it's like big the way I don't know if anybody here was there before it had a straight bar what the plans are it's going to be an angle bar now with the package goods and all the stuff that they had to go and then you walk through like a double d double door area and you'll have the old original bar from the place it's only going to be about a six foot or S foot bar there and that'll serve the outside Pavilion and in that area you'll only have like uh six chairs and a couple leaning areas to okay will there be um TVs speakers outside in the outdoor seating area I'm sure there'll be the low music uh speakers on the outside yes um been to a bar or two in my life believe it or not um I'm more concerned not what you want to do but what you're not going to do um so we're not going to have fight night out there at one o'clock in the morning with the speakers and the TVs blaring I hope to be on the way home at that time I'm just trying trying to get an understanding of what impacts an outdoor area can have to the surrounding area respectfully I don't this isn't about you it's about the use itself absolutely making sure that we talk about it and have an understanding regarding it that's all I have right now thank you madam chair any additional questions for this witness Mr Hurley just one uh is any live entertainment proposed um the last places I have we never really had bands we had like one two piece person inside by the bar on events B how about this place no full B at all no no no live entertainment we might have karaoke we might have a bingo KN as we did in the past on our slow nights on usually a Friday or a Saturday we'll have a one person DJ or single along a couple girls and but that's about at a full-fledged bands now and how late at night would that run uh we're usually done 123 thank you any additional questions for this witness Mr D would you like to call your next witness sure um I think he just came in uh can can we have uh Shri CA I'll butcher that name y thank you want toar him for his uh absolutely good evening thank you for raising your right hand do you Solly swear or affirm that the testimony information questions or comments that you're about to present before the board will represent the truth the whole truth and nothing but the truth I do if you would please state your name spell your last provide your affiliation and your credentials for the board's benefit my my name is Shri s h r i last name k o t d a w l a I'm a professional engineer in state of New Jersey since 1998 and I have a degree in civil engineering from Kansas Cate University in since 1994 this board accepts your credentials just please keep in mind to speak as loud as you can thank you okay thank you very much for allowing me to talk and you're providing engineering testimony correct yes correct thank you okay Shri you designed the plans for the expansion of of the cin is that correct yes I did and we uh just for a um point of housekeeping we do acknowledge receipt of Remington Barrack's letter uh review letter of uh April 24th uh 2024 and then the review letter of EDH engineering dated May 11 2024 thank you okay Shri Could you um could you describe uh what what what's been done on the premises so far since since you've been involved with the planning of this office has been involved since last eight month on the subject project where you can look at the exhibit here I'll just quickly explain we created L-shaped parking lot and our intent was to provide maximum number of parking spaces and that required us to ask seek some wavers and V variances because we were trying to achieve as many parking spaces we can achieve and the traffic engineer is our next professional he will talk more about why we need certain parking related variances but I can explain what we did here is by the law we required 48 parking spaces and we are providing 34 but the traffic engineer will provide the testimony about what's the use of the property and 34 parking spaces which are provided is adequate for that particular use which owner and traffic engineer will talk about it so so my office with the parking lot there's a the green area you see between L-shaped Wings is a septic system so technically we you can see that entire property has been utilized for a parking space and naturally the water goes in Northerly direction from West veteran highway so it's going towards the neighbors property so we try to go like reverse gravity and try to connect to the catch Basin which is on a Veterans Highway and County reviewed our first submission and they had multiple comments about because they were very cautious about not adding more water to their system and we were able to actually since our submission to transship we revised the stor water management system which meets the current rules and that system is about three times larger than what we submit to the board engineer so now we are expecting any day approval from the county because the county has a jurisdiction over the West Veterans Highway and we have provided two ADA Compliant parking spaces required by the law and two spaces has a EV charging facility kind of available for the patterns other than that Landscaping we try to squeeze in as many trees I can't but as we see the space um but we have filled up like the areas so it will give some kind of little screening where the headlights from the car will not like kind of reflect on the road you designed fencing on the area too is that correct yes and we will have a retaining wall to hold the parking lot like a smaller ring of the L shape about 3 to 4 ft High to hold the grades and take the water out to the best Veterans Highway and the and the and the fence is six is a six foot fence is that correct and it and it's uh and it and it doesn't permit any um any light to emanate off the property yes and I have reviewed the letters from toship professionals and we don't see any problem in achieving any of the concern and comments there yeah we will be able to achieve all the compliances based on the comments given by the township planner and the engineer except for the variances that we're looking for that cor have no other questions of the engineer at this time the chair thank you so I'm I'm referring to the May 11th 2024 report that our office issued U we noted that the property is located along two County Roads um you had indicate I'm sorry the owner had indicated that you had you have already made application to the County planning board yes okay and what's the status of their review what changes have you had to make to these plans for them if you could summarize that yes the concrete at the both entrances so we have the concrete Ence and the St water management system they wanted us to comply with the new rules right and we are complying with the new rules and so the system is about three times larger than what we submitted to the township right and we are we are at the last leg of review first we have the conditional approval from them okay for the project but conceptually they've signed on to the two entrances the the one way in and then the Dual move movement entrance on West vets yes okay U are they requiring any further any additional roadway improvements along the frontage we we are negotiating at the AIS they might want a paper so they were not sure so basically they are looking into it and we have told them if it's needed the applicant will do the paper are they asking you to extend the concrete curbing along the entire Frontage uh not the entire Frontage but we have a curving up to halfway right so so that was a part of it they are reviewing it if they ask us to do it we'll do it okay because historically this board is like so we have an ordinance in town right where uh developments require especially commercial developments require Curbing and sidewalk now we understand that this is within the jurisdiction for Ocean County but in that instance the board has historically and I I'm not speaking for the board here but historically the board has requested that the applicant be proactive and in in your discussions with the county that the town would really like to see Curbing and sidewalk here all right so whatever Curbing and sidewalk currently exists if it's dilapitated it should be repaired right and then any additional any anywhere where Curbing and sidewalk does not exist it would be installed so the the op the goal here would be for you guys to be proactive and indicate to the county that the township would really like Curbing and sidewalk along all Frontage and if the county says no Then the town would accept uh in lie of constructing it a payment to the uh pedestrian safety fund so that's that's the process here that we've typically pursued sir As I understood it the county re re redesigned that entire intersection about five or six years ago and as did all the whitening and and actually had did taking of the property uh long castv in on on West Veterans Highway a substantial amount of the property to to widen the roadway and they they install the Curbing and sidewalks there well in they installed limited Curbing and sidewalks and they put hand they put curb Cuts in there for for accessibility Cuts right ramps um the reason why they didn't and continue the curbing down to past the property Frontage was because it was wooded there was nothing there now you're proposing to put something there so the burden would be on the applicant to uh complete the the the improvements I mean you're talking about 80 90 feet of Curbing and some sidewalk it's along your Frontage so it's something that I would highly recommend you approach the county and ask them permission to do that um we will comply with the county C requires us to do that's not what I'm saying that's not that's that's not what I'm that's not what I'm saying I'm I'm suggesting you be proactive and tell the county the town would like to see this Curbing and sidewalk installed and if they say no then you do a contribution in lie of I understand okay thank you uh the existing guide rail along the road is that going to stay yes okay uh the parking lot uh the rear parking lot we'll call it the rear parking lot is surrounded by a um up anywhere from a 3 to four foot high off the ground retaining wall the existing six foot high board on board fence is located at grade are you relocating are you going to remove that existing six foot fence and put it on top of the retaining wall and we were planning where the retaining wall section is we will lift it the natural grd is we will keep it okay if you could just indicate that on the plans revise the plans accordingly because the concern is if you're going to be 3 to four foot off the ground now vehicles are vehicle headlights are 9et off the ground behind you know NT beyond the property so it' be nice to have a solid barrier there because there's not a lot of room for plant material to provide adequate screening that will that require another variance for between between the three foot three or 4 foot and no you can do six foot along side and rear property lines you can do six foot and you just can't do 6 foot forward of the principal dwell no but what I'm saying is if you're putting the you're stacking the fence on top of the 4ft retaining wheel it's a 10 foot now your grade is your grade is the top of the wall so it's six foot from grade different towns different rules uh we did have some comment we had some comments I probably the same comments that the county had on on the storm water management system it needs to be redesigned to to be consistent with the new wish or newer de reg and Township regulations um obviously any any approve if the application were to be approved the condition would be that they satisfy uh the comments and that the storm water management system be redesigned in accordance with the latest regulations uh you you submit a an updated plan to the uh to the board engineer to to show what what you're doing that you said submit it to the county yes we we sub the township question very good Mr Peters the cille road entrance is one way in only yes one way okay on the site plan sheet there's a Stop Bar and a stop sign shown there those are going to get removed yeah it's and then where the oneway entrance in off a cvill hits the first parking area we'll put some do not enter oneway do not enter signs yes okay that's all I have thank you any additional questions for this witness I don't know if the through the chair please uh the sign that you have on veterans yes uh what is the size uh will be lighted will have changeable type just describe the sign it's a ground mounted sign if there be a lighted sign 6 ft by yeah we provided a 16 ft Square ft area while 30 squ ft is allowed you would be able to add a detail to construction detail to the pl so you're not you're not seeking any design or V I'm sorry variance relief for the sign we have a setback variance typically I'm sorry the setback yes but you're not set for for the sign square footage no the square footage be a lower and it's going to be a backlit sign or like a spotlight mounted it's a back back uh no changeable copy or you're not proposing any change able copy like LEDs no no no it's not any additional questions for this witness Mr book entr typically cross uh I I think it's the traffic engineer will talk more about it but the the traffic engineer will know about more about the circulation but the access is available from both both both of the roads so don't yes okay yes first is on a at at the near the Caville road the main entrance currently uh so on gas yes that entrance made uh it's only available now for the ad a Ada parking spaces we have created a ramp they will be able to access through that road no no I don't think anyone else owner can talk about it which one will be the primary entrance to the building I don't want to Bel the point [Music] but the entrance on I'm looking for to see the process of this Elin people not there's no we don't own any parking on West veterans so that it's and and I understand that but what but there's a fire safety back for a fire safety issue you're going to have to have a second entrance you can't just have one entrance in it out I correct don't know bring okay thank you any other question questions of the engineer any other questions for this witness no further questions for this witness if you'd like to call the owner back up that's fine um John Ray please my traffic engineer did Mr did you want to have Mr Kelli wants to answer the entrance question thank you Mr book he's going to answer the question hi Mr Brook uh over the years everybody crossed the road they jump the guard rail at this time we configured the parking lot in the outside Pavilion once you park your car with the new sidewalks that everybody's questioning me to do either way they're going in and the people going to come along the sidewalk with a guard rail and they're going to walk only direction to the entrance the entrance there yes that's the only entrance into the main bar and but we're going to have landscaping and but there's no way to come into the bar unless do the parking anymore so along the road we'll have a guard rail and then we're going to have all trees like a wall along there so unless they going to dodge the guard rail in the traffic and jump through the trees it's not a even a question for anybody to come that way anymore so it is all the parking and the outside Pavilion and the entrances a lot of areas you could only go one way it's almost like because we have to put the railings up the Ada railings so it would be like a guard rail plus an ADA railing stainless railings coming up right in front of it so if somebody comes up with a wheelchair with a ramp you have to go there there's no way going across the road anymore thank Madam chair lady yes Mr well while he's here wa wait St on back just a quick question the resolution that was adopted by this board back in 906 1996 had restrictions on the operation the restrictions appli to the kitchen to be closed at 11:30 p.m. and the bar to be closed at midnight are you still willing to comply with that on certain nights and weekends on certain nights and weekends you'll comply or you will not comply I will comply I was hoping on Friday and Saturday we could have the the kitchen open until midnight about the bar of course the bar yes when when do you want to close the bar on Friday Saturday nights so you're not willing to comply with the prior resolution that was that was granted by this board it's not that I don't want to comply just know from future taverns that I have the ABC requires you to close gives you the opportunity to to make a call and hopefully the town goes where our call which we can open like other taverns that I had I had other other taverns that we were allowed to open to 3 : in the morning but that's not what I'm looking to have a party night I just hopefully it's a a a far Road from the shore that people want to stop in on the way home to get something to eat before they make it back to Jackson from the shore that's what the real hours of at a kitchen is but usually 11:30 it's last call in the kitchen and by 12:00 the place is closing from Monday to Thursday if I may I'd just like to clarify the language of the prior resolution um it does state that whereas the applicant is testified that the kitchen closes at 11:30 p.m. and that no food may be ordered beyond that hour and whereas the applicant further testified that the bar shall stop serving be beverages at the outside bar at 12 midnight correct so that that restriction in that prior resolution was limited to the outside bar is that something you'd be willing to yes abide by yes does that satisfy you Mr Hurley thank you thank you sir Mr Ray good evening excuse me good evening Mr Ray uh thank you for raising your right hand do you solemnly swear or affirm that the testimony information questions or comments that you're about to present before the board will represent the truth the whole truth and nothing but the truth I do if you would please state your name provide your affiliation and your credentials John Ray Rea a professional engineer with MCD and Ray Associates 14 1931 Lakewood Road manisan New Jersey appearing as a traffic engineer and a parking consultant for the applicant this evening Mr Mr Ray You' had you you've conducted a traffic study I'm just going to note on the record Mr Ray you've been here thousands of times we accept your credentials thank you thank you Mr R you've conducted a traffic a traffic study for the subject property yes we did could you describe the uh provide the results of your your your study to the to the board sure well we conducted peak hour traffic Accounts at the intersection of West Veterans Highway and cville road as the board knows they're both County Roads uh we projected traffic volumes for the uh restaurant based on the number of seats and I want to talk talk about that in a little bit of detail because it ties into the parking variants that we require it is my understanding and I don't know if the engineer testified to it or not I didn't hear him say it but there are 47 seats inside the uh the tavern and 24 seats outside so looking at a worst case scenario one in which all 71 seats would be occupied that's what I looked at in terms of doing an analysis of the of the parking but I want to talk about the traffic first we did a traffic study in accordance with the Ocean County Planning board's protocol of expanding traffic volumes out for 10 years and the findings were that the two site driveways would operate at level of service b or better during the 2034 design year of the peak hours the offsite signalized intersection at West veterans in cville will operate at level of service C for the Nob build condition for the design year of 2034 and level of service C for the build condition so that will be an acceptable situation with respect to the parking uh it is my understanding and perhaps Evan or Ernie can correct me I think the Township's requirement is one parking space for every 50 square ft of building area that's a pretty high standard and it's my understanding that that particular standard was something that was developed years ago U looking at the Stewarts and A&W rootbeer stands that had very small buildings but they brought the food out to you as you were sitting in your car and that's where I think that one per 50 squ ft standard came from I don't really think it's applicable in this case the 34 parking spaces that are being provided provide a ratio of almost one parking space for every two seats in the inside and outside of the bar and a typically used uh standard for for a facility like this would be one parking space for every three seats which would equate to somewhere around 22 seats being uh 22 parking spaces being required based on the number of seats the 34 spaces that are provided go well beyond that and like I said had almost provide a ratio of one parking space per two seats so I do believe the parking will be adequate based on the size of the facility the number of seats provided I do think the parking will be adequate um I have not been involved in the county application I did hear that uh you would like our engineer to go back to the county and request that sidewalk and curbing curbing be extended along the county roadway frontages and um I understand that and as Evan indicated if the county uh will not go along with that the applicant will have to make a payment to the townships I guess it's the sidewalk fund or I guess it's called The Pedestrian fund uh that basically summarizes it I Mr H um earlier testimony we heard that the um there would be about five employees there and um you seem to be concentrating on the number of patrons and you didn't touch on where the employees are going to park which if there's five employees there during a shift change there could be more cars in the parking lot so where are the employees going to go actually the standard that I referred to the one parking space for every three seats includes employees and patrons that's a generally used standard that includes both so I don't think there's any separate I felt comfortable Because the actual number number of parking spaces to seats was closer to 1 per two than the 1 per three that's typically utilized I'm very comfortable that the employee parking will not cause you know the parking lot to be insufficient for the number of patrons they expect if there were five employees and they still be 29 parking spaces for the balance of the uh the operation and based on the number of seats uh that would be able to support almost close to 90 seats and we have 74 so I do believe the parking will be adequate and there's really no place to park along either one of the county highways as as everybody knows in that area of town so the parking will have to be self-contained that was my next question where if there's overflow where is that it can't go on the county roads uh I I don't recall if parking restrictions are on those two roads but parking should not be permitted on either one of those two roadways in my opinion and if parking restrictions need to be placed on those roadways I believe the governing body can pass that ordinance that I'm sure the county wouldn't object to it so with all of your experience your feeling your expertise indicates that there is adequate paring for all of the patrons and all the employees on site correct yes thank yes not to belor this point but just to piggy back on Mr hudak's Question um you mentioned earlier to the owner I don't want to butcher your last name forgive me you mentioned earlier potentially Chris uh christing or a birthday party so let's just assume best case scenario for you as a businessman but worst case scenario for parking if you have a Christin or a birthday party and the bar still open because I believe that was testimony where are all these people going to park I I guess I'm I I'm just want to understand myself I I think I have to punt that back to Steve the operator because I'm you know I I I think there's an occupancy limit within the uh building itself too that would probably be a limiting factor but I haven't seen the architectural so I don't know what that is Mr towns do we have a occupancy limit for the building and downs excuse me sorry do we have an occupancy limit for the building Mr pelli testified he's got uh 20 20 seats in the outside area and 47 seats in the in the in the interior of the bar so that's that's where we got the seven that yeah I thought it was 24 if it's 20 numbers are even better 2 24 and and 47 that's 71 okay thank you Mr Hudak um maybe you guys should come up with a plan um in the event you have an event that requires perhaps Arrangements can be made offsite with valet parking bring cars over just a suggestion I think the applicant should take that under advisor yes thank you any other questions for this witness Mr Hurley Mr Ray if if I can I'm I'm having a little difficulty with the calculation your your opinion is that two spaces or one space per two seats is adequate oh yes absolutely and based on the calculations there are 71 seats right so that should amount to 36 parking spaces correct and we have 34 and if you recall my testimony Mr Hurley I said it's almost one parking space per two seats not exactly but almost what about the employees now it was testified to that there would be five to six employees and as I testified to before that parking ratio that one space for three seats the employees are included in that ratio that's a very commonly used ratio for restaurants places of assembly so my testimony is due to the fact that we have closer to a one parking space per two seat ratio then the one space per three uh seat ratio the parking will be more more than adequate and and the employees are included in those ratios on the ordinance provision you indicated that it was one space per 50 square feet does that include employees also I didn't read the entire ordinance so I wouldn't uh Venture an opinion on that but as I've indicated my understanding is that's an old standard that applied to the old Drive-In Stewarts root beer and A&W root beer stands of which there still may be some you know around central New Jersey I know we used to see them when we were kids but I think that's an old standard thank you so for the chair um the ordinance requirement of one space for 50 square foot is based on Gross floor area of a building and that would include any employees just as if it was medical office space it's one space for 200 square foot of gross and that has those employees built into it as well if this were one space per 50 square ft if we use that standard how many spaces would be required here I think it was 48 it was 48 48 and I I would uh I'm going to agree with Mr Ray with the in respect to or with respect to the fact that uses like this and other parts of New Jersey typically are in that one to one space for every three SE seat range that that is customary and that's what's the more modern ordinances tend to reflect that um I do agree that ours is outdated and probably hasn't been changed since the Stewart root Beer's days I would agree with that com my other concern is that based on the testimony of the operator here the owner he indicated that there would be people coming back and forth from the shore they would want to stop and have something to eat something that nature that makes it sound seasonal you have you ever done any any investigation analysis whether or whether or not more spaces are required in the summertime and less in the winter time has been testified to I I I think the uh the parking demand would be limited by the size of the facility and the number of seats whether it's seasonal or not uh it wouldn't I I assumed that both the indoor and outdoor seating would be used at the same time so that would refle the seasonal Factor if you will thank you any additional questions for this witness thank you thank you Mr R won Gemma will be uh my planner good evening Mr Gemma thank you for raising your right hand do you solemnly swear or affirm that the testimony information questions or comments say you're about to present before the board will represent the truth the whole truth and nothing but the truth I do and for the record Gordon Jama 68 senica Place Oceanport New Jersey Mr JMA you have also appeared here many many times so I believe that wouldn't be out of line to say that the board accepts your credentials thank you very much I appreciate that thank you Mr Gemma you have conducted a l use inventory on on on on the subject property is that correct correct and could you identify to to the uh to the board uh what your what Your findings are sure just to make it quick I had the opportunity to review the plans listen to the testimony and agree that this property is in the NC zone property did receive prior approvals in which case it was deemed to be a pre-existing non-conforming use which is the basis for the board's jurisdiction here in addition to the D2 variants for the um expansion of the non-conforming use the applicant is Seeking a number of C variances some of them are a virtue of pre-existing condition size of the lot width of the lot that's not being changed there's not property that they could buy to cure those things some are a function of the site plan the applicant is seeking those are new variances uh before I go to the issue of the variances just want to make a few comments about the zone as you can see page one of the plan showed the location of the subject property you can see it's in the NC Zone across the street from the PVC Zone pvc2 Zone and it's farther away couple Lots away from any residential zones and it's something you should take into account that in the NC Zone residential uses although they're of concern and they exist are not permitted uses they're conditionally permitted uses the condition is they would build prior to 2002 what does that tell you it tells you that in this Zone you're not trying to have more residential uses you trying to have more commercial uses and that goes to the heart of your master plan the master plan I know it's being revised rised hasn't been fully revised yet the master plan was done in 2009 there was an amendment in 2023 23 Amendment didn't change much dealt more with the uh you know land use plan and conservation elements but we basically the objectives and goals in your master plan basically say you're trying to put consistent uses in consistent zones and when you look at your goals and objectives you should look at is this consistent with what's around you and what the purpose of that zone is I really tells you what you're trying to do and in fact it even goes so far as to say that the objective number two it's an economic objective the economic objective number two in your master plan says that is to provide local and uh employment opportunities economic development in the appropriate zones so you're saying to the people who own properties in these zones you want to help encourage Economic Development why is that important because when we get to the standard for Relief that goes to the heart of doesn't advance of purpose of zoning so let's go to that D2 the purposes the standard for a D2 variance is different than a D1 variants the use exists so you're not trying to prove the validity and the purposes of Zoning for the use you're trying to focus on the expansion how does this expansion of the use the addition of a parking the addition of the outdoor seating Advance the purposes of zoning the parking is easy there's no parking there now there's parking across the street if testimony from others that it's safe safer to have parking on site than cross on W spectr Highway no kidding so I don't think there's any argument that providing parking on site even though it's not everything your Zone wants is safe adequate advances purposes of zoning as found in the ml providing upgraded drainage provided upgraded sewer all advanced purposes is found in the ml I don't think this boort has any questioned it advances the purpose of zoning your real question might be what is an out there seating how does that Advance a purpose of zoning and go to back to your master plan it said in the zone that encourages these uses in a Zone that's economics is important you trying to develop things that's a purpose of zoning that you're trying to move forward that's what your master plan talk about the second thing the second prong of the positive criteria particular suitability is it particularly suitable to expand this type of use here and the answer is yeah you have an existing uh restaurant on this site it's been here for a long period of time it didn't have zoning didn't have parking so is it particularly suited to put in parking year yet pretty much is particularly suited particularly when the applicant testified that the property across the street he doesn't own anymore where they used to park he didn't have the chance to buy it so here it's very particularly suited to put in parking to make it safe particularly when you add add that the parking you're putting in was more than ever existed has underlying drainage has ADA compliance never existed before there was a question how safe is it to get in there was a good question but the answer was we're trying to make it safer we're trying to actually enhance the safety of that second entrance into the building so is it particularly suited I think it is the real question you have is how do you mitigate the impacts upon the surrounding properties and there was questions about what you put it Fen up but that was a valid way to do it the other thing to keep in track the nearest residential use is law 27 it's adjacent but the house itself is actually to the north of the applicant's property where the improvements are where the um driveway is it's actually adjacent to the driveway to Lot 27 and the outside seating is the furthest away from La 27 on the Cy Corner near corner of uh castle cville and West vet Highway so in that instance by putting in the mitigating factors or putting in the um defense asking the good questions hours of operation at night and limiting it to that and the AL can agree to you've mitigated the adverse impact upon the the ajm property such that it's hard for me as a planner to say has any substantial detrimental impact finally the second prong of the negative criteria is the on the intent and purpose of the Zone plan and I think this is actually advancing the intent and purpose of the Zone plan because you said in 2009 and as exist exists today want to encourage economic development in these types of zones concerning the C2 variances the variances there's two buckets of variances what exists there's two types of variances variance relief for the C variances the undue hardship standard and the benefits versus the burm standards well for the bucket of variances with lot depth uh I think it's not make sure I get it right just for the record Al you should always get it right the variances uh are for minimum lot with Frontage and setback well they all exist and it's a function of size of the lot where the building is today relief is appropriate onto the C1 standard of Ono hardship you can't make a lot bigger you don't own the property on the road you don't have property next to you you can't move the the existing structure that's an Ono hardship so those are easy ones to fit tougher ones to fit are the C2 ones uh uh that's the additional parking uh those variances are that a function of the site plan and the real one is the adequacy of parking John was 100% correct the standard that you use for parking today is a standard that's somewhat obsolete under the current standard for parking uh it more than is adequate I think it meets the benefits of putting in the parking certainly all weigh any standards any any detriments the benefits of having the outdoor seating uh certainly help the applicant and that would only add six or seven parking spaces if you just took it all out that probably aren't going to be used so I I think that that really doesn't help anything that actually adversely impacts the applicant so in terms of those other variances that are needed by virt of the application the site plan itself I think under the C2 standard you can easily find that the benefits of the relief out way the burdens thank you Mr M Mr Gemma any questions by the board for Mr Gemma any questions for this witness Mr Harley Mr JMA for purposes of the applications um reasons for being here an expansion of a non-conforming use the not the the expansion here is because of the outside seating the expansion as as you know uh uh Mr Hurley the case law has held any expansion of the use even the parking lot itself may be deemed an expansion but here certainly the expansion of the outdoor seating certainly fits within criteria of an expansion of the underlying use you're providing as indicated by the applicant I think 21 additional seats you're providing places for uh food fluid and beverage it certainly meets within the four corners of an expansion but the expansion of the par parking is created because of the expansion of the outside seating without the outside seating would you need would there be an expansion well the expansion of the parking there is no parking there today that currently exists the argument could be made that you're putting in substantially more parking that existed that would allow the use itself to get more intense but in this case we're fortunate we also have the issue of intensification by having the parking people can park there and you also have the expansion itself of the use with more services of food and beverage outside as well as inside right the adjoining residents that you testified to there what zone is that in that is also in the NC Zone it's not in the R zone okay thank you thank you any additional questions for this witness Mr Hill Mr Peters questions comments thank you thank you I think you're a Traffic Engineers okay okay ladies and gentlemen that's the end of my presentation before I open it to the public would you like to make a closing statement yes I would this uh my client purchased uh Cas fill in which I think all of you realiz is was very rundown and uh and there's awful lot of uh Renovations that he's doing to to upgrade upgrade the site to make it more attractive excuse me are we going to open it to the public before yes I was just ask if you want to make a statement before we opened it to the public oh before E either way you want to do Mr ear you know lers always some up list but no Ser seriously he's put a awful lot of money into it uh at this point cutting down the trees uh doing the brand the brand most importantly the brand new septic system the old septic system on the on the site which was supposed to have been put in in 1975 was never put in and it was really a tree was growing over the SE sstn where the septic system was beh just behind the bar so that came out and then he put He put the entire septic system off way off the plan way off to the back of the plan where you can see on on the plan where it is uh uh I I believe that he's upgraded the the the property uh tremendously uh it's going to be it's going to be an asset uh to the to the to the to the township and I I think under all the circumstances we respectfully request that you that you grant the relief of requesting right we're going to open this to the public if anybody wishes to come forward and make any comments have any questions please do so not seeing anyone come forward we're going to close public session board it's up to us if anybody would like to make a motion for discussion for purpose of discussion I'll move that the application be approved okay we have a motion for uh and a second any discussion any comments Excuse me yes Mr I take no General Welfare keeping that spot up and especially improving safety um I've listen to all the testimony and obviously I had some concerns but I think they've been addressed appropriately um it's an an application for expansion of non-conforming use and I think the standards that have to be applied in that case and the analysis that we have to undertake is based on the general welfare I think the site is particularly suited for the use that's proposed here which includes the the outside seating and the additional parking as I indicated when Mr jemo was testifying I thought the the outside seating is what creates the the need for more parking spaces and therefore the the area for the parking space is limited it's limited because of the septic area that is required which restrains the property in a certain regard there's no question that um the improvements that are going being made at least in my opinion are going to be more aesthetically pleasing than they exist now and as a result of that I think that pre presents a benefit to the general welfare of the community in the area we haven't had any objections to the application from any adjoining neighbors things of that nature which I think is is is a key indication uh as I've indicated before the particular suitability aspect here is that the use is existing and if this application were to be denied that use would still continue in the condition that it that it is in now and approving this application improves that condition just for the board's benefit and and I I concur with everything that Mr Hurley just said I'm and I'm not you know imposing on your right to discuss the application um again Mr Hurley hit the nail on the head this is an expansion of a pre-existing non-conforming use which makes it a D2 variant okay uh the D2 variant is subject to the um holding of Burbridge versus m Hill Board of adjustment which is 117 NJ NJ 376 1990 as Mr early said there there needs to be a benefit to the general welfare um but that that benefit has to be more than just beautification of property and and if if the board were seeking my opinion I think I think the applicant here and as Mr Earle stated on the record has done a wonderful job of showing how this uh these proposed um the this proposed expansion is particularly suited to the specific location and that you know the the uh inclusion of an outdoor space uh along with additional parking um that that all goes a long way into into itself being a general welfare um so again I I I you know based upon uh what I've heard this evening I have heard um the criteria for the D2 variants um so if the board has any questions about that um I'd be happy to address them just one other one other comment reviewing the resolution that was adopted by the Zoning Board in 1996 on the last page number number six reads in our quote the application is a permitted use in the zone all I can all I can gather from that is what the board meant at that time that it was permitted as a non-conforming use and therefore uh we are here for an expansion of a non-conform use just to support the fact that's why the application is here yeah that that that resolution from 1996 is not my favorite resolution that I've ever read I'll tell you that right now uh in the you're right it says that and and again in the in the opening it says this is a pre-existing non-conforming use I think we can all agree and I think the board can certainly find here that this is a lawfully created pre preexisting non-conforming use which is the criteria required for a D2 variance okay so if we all make that particular finding um then which I think again based upon the record is appropriate uh certainly you can evaluate whether they've set forth the D2 uh variance criteria I put on the record um I would just like to um make the following comment as a longtime Jackson resident who's been to the cville um I have to say I think it's um I'd like to applaud you for putting parking on site because I've seen the as Mr book pointed out earlier the crossing and everything else and that to me is more of a dangerous situation um I agree with Mr Hurley and of course our Council you know the beautification although that's not a does it meet all the criteria you know doesn't satisfy the criteria I do think in this case it really does play out and it'll be a benefit to the town um so I am in favor of this application I think one other point that I think we should make there is a prior resolution restricting the hours of operation so we should either amend those hours in this in this resolution or ask the applicant to comply with those hours whatever the board decides so Mr DS do you mind okay Mr down uh the question to you is you heard me read the the resolution on the record the record limit uh the the prior resolution from 1996 limits the kitchen hours to um stopping orders stop taking orders at 11:30 p.m. is that something that that your client is amendable to well we can ask him but I I believe he did testify that he's going to close the kitchen at 11:30 and uh the last order at 11:30 and then the and then the last call at 12 during the week and then he wants to expand the last call so that the so that the bar closes at 1:00 the so let's let's let's take this peace meil because again the prior resolution did so the first question I asked was regarding the food the prior resolution had no specific findings as to the day of the week the time whatever the it said 11:30 p.m. was the time for the last order um so again if we want to amend that that would now would be the time but I think that was I to to the best of my recollection that's what was testified to earlier so I just want to get clarification for resolution purposes answer question thank you ification on a Friday and Saturday night like the kitchen to be open till 12:00 so the request here is so so there is a request to amend the prior resolution uh Monday through through Thursday uh I'm sorry strike that Sunday through Thursday correct the kitchen would close at 11:30 and then on uh Friday and Saturday nights the kitchen would uh the proposals that the kitchen would close at at 12:00 p.m. yes sir um I'm sorry 12 12:00 p.m. sorry man you got no business now uh 12: a.m. I apologize that's okay it's okay um the other thing uh that the resolution had indicated was that the outside bar would not serve beverages past uh 12:00 a.m is that something that you're still amendable to yes every day of the week every day yes okay so so the sole amendment being sought here is as to Friday and Saturday evening the the applicants requesting to amend the prior hours of oper to extend to 12 a.m. does that clarify it Jeff correct me if I'm wrong but I think it's two it's 2 am I think it's 2 am will you stipulate that you'll abide for the for the for the bar closing you'll stipulate that you'll abide by the last call 12:30 1:00 out fair so so last call at 12:30 we'll close at 1:00 you know sometimes people don't listen right can't fa you for that yeah I wouldn't make I wouldn't have a living if it weren't for that though would I I don't have the answer sometimes uh with the architect drawings that's just is a three it was an apartment two apartments up there but uh we're taking the first floor out and we're bringing it all the way up like moris Tavern so you come in a big old barn with all kind of features and all like a house inside a house so it'll be all tall instead of walking in your head hit in the ceiling no that's okay I I presume that the motion's amended to include those those unless Mr Hurley has wants to address that in another fashion you made the motion so that's fine okay yeah I just wanted to thank uh Mr Gemma as well for the articulate planning testimony some people here might know I sometimes have a challenge uh appreciating some plannner testimony and that was very articulate and and uh spoke to the points and made it very easy for us to uh appreciate this application Mr Hurley yes Mr Stafford Smith yes Mr book yes Mr Hudak yes Miss Parnes yes Miss FR yes Miss Bradley yes it has been granted thank you sir thank you motion to adjourn all in favor