e e e e e e e e e e
e e e we're going to call this meeting to order please stand for the Pledge of Allegiance I pledge allegiance to the flag of the United States of America and to the Republic for which it stands one nation
under God indivisible with liberty and justice for all uh this meeting complies with the open public meetings Act notice of this meeting has been published on the municipal bulletin board and in the appropriate
newspapers good evening everyone uh board members as you can see we have a new recording secretary Miss Kathleen bbsa I actually need a uh motion and a second to officially appoint her please motion second we have a motion in a second you can everybody can vote on
this Cathleen yes Mr Heyman yes Dr hofstein yes Mr Hudak yes M parns she's AB oh she's sorry Miss Rosal yes Mr Martins yes Mr such yes
Miss Brad yes welcome aboard and now to make it official can we have a roll call please Mr Hyman here Dr hin here Mr Hudak here Mr Rosal here Mr Martin present Mr such here miss BR
here miss CPR do we have any resolutions this evening we do not okay and do we have any minutes this evening I have not seen any yes okay uh do we have a voucher for this evening cathine okay I'll take
that thank you all right so we have a voucher for our recording secretary for this evening from the township of Jackson in the amount of $175 I need a motion in a second please so Mo second roll call
please Mr Heyman yes Dr hopin yes Mr Hudak yes Mr Rosal yes Mr Martins yes Mr such yes M bradle yes okay do we have any announcements this evening Miss cian
yes number three on the agenda jcpnl um which has been carried uh so we had testimony on February 19th um and it is now going to be carried to the May
7th meeting with no additional notice and we need to swear in our Professionals for this evening please raise your right hand do you swear that the uh testimony that you will give to this board this evening will be the truth and nothing but the
truth I do please say your name and position for the record Mark rire board engineer Ernie Peters Jackie Jordan Planning and Zoning okay do we no executive session this
evening any matters for discussion or administrative approvals none all right we're going to move forward to applicant number one A Partners LLC this is for preliminary and final site plan 918 with use variants
3497 Mr Pete yes um and just for the record Mr Martins has stepped off the day he's recused himself uh due to a conflict with this application so we will have uh six voters for this evening so Cathy Mr Martin won't be
voting and obviously she's not here am I I'm live I'm very good yes Madam chair board members board professionals and public good evening my name is Kenneth Pape I'm the attorney for your applicant this evening this is a continued hearing this he matter began before this board
in June of 2024 and where there was substantial testimony placed on the record it was continued to September where again the the full evening um was used for the presentation to the board and at the
September meeting as the evening got late there was an an agreement to allow I think the last half hour to the um public to come comment with the understanding that they could return all of the fact Witnesses had concluded
their testimony the architect and the traffic engineer and the design engineer had concluded their testimony there was a discussion amongst the board members and the public about the driveway system and there was a suggestion that came I believe first from the public and then
was um discussed by the board and that was to change the driveway system so that the truck movements would be on the opposite side of the site as far away from Lot 8 as possible in November we submitted a
revised circulation plan unfortunately for the board for the applicant and the public that plan was filed too late to be heard at the November meeting your Council directed that we could not proceed I think there was a similar late filing by Mr Paul rier and we were all
sent home with a new hearing G we this evening we intend to present that revised circulation plan and I'll call Mr en Tilly for approximately five minutes to just have him introduce that to the board it because it is a revision to the
circulation plan our traffic expert Mr John Ray will then take the stand and spend a few minutes just to confirm that the plan is remains adequate and safe for all of the anticipated on-site circulation movements those two fact Witnesses I participate can be presented
in about 10 minutes and then we do have our planner testimony um to present to the board two comments one I want to apologize to the board and to the public I've been doing this for just about 45 years I have never missed a hearing ever
until the meeting in January where I was not well and I apologize to you for not being there and for the inconvenience that it may have caused anyone there was nothing I could do about it the second is um if we have six members so Madam
chair I won't ask for a vote this evening I'm going to want to have a a board of seven but could we begin with an understanding of of the six members of the board that are present how many are qualified at this time there's always time to become
qualified but how many are qualified to vote on this application um beginning with the June June hearing all of them thank you what than everyone I thank you for taking that extra step to be be
qualified then with your permission Madam chair I'll call Michael and Tilly we'll introduce the exhibit that was filed in November which is a revision to the circulation um as that he described it to the board Mr relly would you raise your
right hand please do you swear that the testimony you'll give this board this evening will be the truth and nothing but the truth I do and could you please state your name and qualifications for the record Michael inly professional engineer and planner in state of New Jersey since
1990 a principal with Crest Engineering Associates and I'm sorry Mr but my understanding is that you provided testimony in this matter previously correct and the board has accepted your credentials thank you very much one of us needs to remind him that he's under oath
I'm gonna leave that to you Mr I remind you that you're under oath and I'll ask if you could identify the exhibit that you are presenting to the board by title and then tell us what that exhibit shows yes this is uh exhibit concept plan uh
contractors Yard East entrance and what it basically is is uh as Kenan mentioned we were asked to provide the entrance for the truck traffic as far east as we could um as as edited from the original
application the original application had this truck entrance on this side which is the west side so what we did was we took a look at the best way to lay this property out again with the parking and the best circulation and provide that driveway as
far east as we could and so what you see here is the uh Eastern driveway moved over and that's dedicated for the truck track traffic so the vehicles entering the site for exclusively for the contractor's yard would be going in and
out of that entrance there's a second entrance that we had left on the west side I mentioned and that is for the office traffic parking uh Ingress and egress out of that entrance uh you notice that it is open between the the
contractor's uh Drive aisle and then the uh remainder of the parking and that's just good design design uh good for fire good for circulation um so we left that the way it is other than that there's no changes to the plan the impervious areas are the
same the the developed area is the same the snowm management is exactly the same I thank you I have nothing further Mr until I wanted this plan to be presented to the board for your consideration we believe it's a good plan um we would look to the board as to
whether they find this this plan to be superior to the original submission which had all of the traffic coming in at the Eastern side of the property I'm sorry Mr P I just want to make sure it's clear for the record so is it the position of the applicant that you would
proceed with either the original uh access plan or with this revised access plan at the board's discretion Council yes um we do believe that the recommendation that came from the board and from the public was to modify the driveways was an excellent idea we and
and we're prepared to adopt it but I don't want to superimpose our conclusions on yours we're prepared to adopt it thank you you're welcome any questions for Mr antii oh I'm sorry Mark s Madam chair if I may just to clarify at this point this
is a conceptual layout and it hasn't been fully engineered in a formal site plan is that correct that's correct so it just so the board's aware if if uh the board looks favorably upon this layout a final site plan would then have to come back is that correct we agree
correct we have three applications pending before you are use variants are preliminary and final and um clearly this evening we're not going to ask you to vote but if you voted on use variance a preliminary and withheld final we would understand and the for the reasons that were just
explained and Mr anly if you can please confirm you stated the impervious coverage on this layout is uh very similar if not identical to the previous layout and therefore you is it accurate to say you would anticipate no uh major changes to the layout of the site
especially the storm water it would be accurate to say that yes okay thank you I do have Mr John Ray here just yes ma'am excuse me if is Mr anelli uh completed his
testimony he has then I believe that there is an objector present so I want to give the objector the opportunity to uh question Mr anly my name is Paul ruier I'm the uh homeowner
of this property right there Mr R thank you Mr R need you to speak sorry thank you so first of all Mr R just two things and and I know that you have participated first of all I'd like to swear you um oh sure did did you want to swear me in you said I do sure no
problem and do you swear that the any testimony you give to this board will be the truth and nothing but the truth yes everything I say will be the truth thank you and I also want to be clear at this time right now the only thing that you're here to do is to question Mr
antii on the testimony he just gave obviously you will have the opportunity to make full comments at a later stage in the proceeding yes I understand I appreciate your guidance now but uh to clarify what you just said he just
presented this uh this this drawing right here and I'm not allowed to ask questions on that drawing no what I saying is that you are allowed to ask Mr antii questions about what he presented and that is this this portion
of the proceedings so yes you can ask him questions my question to the board and I've been trying I've been here many times okay right now that's not a question to the board well my my question and I and I'll uh what was your first name
Sir Michael Michael my question and which I've asked is several times and I've never been able to get an answer is what kind of vehicles are going to be going in and out of that site other than the
office that testimony was placed on the record at the meeting in June by um ESI seino who is a representative of the company and the testimony was that they they engage in heavy construction and they anticipated that there would be um
tandem trucks and trucks like that going to the site for maintenance in the garage thank you Mr P okay now when uh we first had our first hearing and you uh we had huge excavator machines
and wheel Earth movers there um are those the kind of vehicles are going to be there the vehicles that Mr Rivier is describing were two vehicles that the owner placed at the driveway to prevent vandalism that had been and dumping that had been occurring
when the when those Vehicles were found to be objectionable he promptly removed them from the site those those Vehicles will not be driving in and out of the property okay so um I had to uh now the the the applicant
or whoever it was was operating a construction yard there uh I had to uh write a letter to the town and they they moved those they in they were in violation they were doing it illegally
yeah Mr Riv sorry Mr P said he's saying things that are not corre I'm sorry ma'am but she's saying things that are not correct okay but I just wanted to remind you that this is a time for you to make uh to ask questions so you will have the opportunity to make those
comments later on so if you have a question you want to ask okay so he's testimon to clarify what you just said I don't know who's speaking for who but to those those big excavation machines and
and wheel Earth movers they will they be a part of this operation or not I believe that currently the questions are to be to Mr iny and Mr antiy testimony was with regard to the design of two driveways I'm sorry I
didn't hear that so I'm sorry sir just because it's easier to hear me I think um I hope um Mr what Mr tape was saying is that right now the question is only to Mr antii who just testified about
this plan so I I I think that that the questions that you're asking have been answered by Mr Pee um but if you could right now limit your questions to do you have any questions for Mr antii the end the on
this plan that he just presented and his five minutes of testimony okay well let's talk about the uh statement of operations no no no right statement of operations takes this whole piece of property excuse me the only thing we're
discussing now is Mr inti's testimony this evening about the drawing on the board you will have an opportunity to ask questions later well you have to ask to you'll have an opportunity to ask questions of every witness as I believe you have had previously right now I
really haven't had opportunity to ask any questions believe me I've been shut down like you know really hard I'm sorry to hear that but I can tell you for tonight well we're going to do it exactly the the way you'll have the opportunity to question each witness
on that witness's testimony okay so Mr antilly testified and introduced this plan and whatever General thing do you have a a question about this plan okay Mike how wide is this road in front of the site no testimony this evening with regard to
the right of way width the testimony this evening by Mr anti is just on two internal driveways Mr Pap I appreciate the limitations and I am aware of the need to keep things tight however Mr in did present the plan I'm going to allow
Mr rier to ask a couple of questions regarding the plan the current edge of pavement is about 16 feet from the center line of the road all right so the total width of the road is about 32 ft approximately yes okay
were you aware that there's a uh a guard rail going along the whole width of that site on the uh opposite side of the on that road we we do have survey information
for all the facility on the roadway um and we'll be addressing all of that including the curbing the pavement the drainage the the guide rail uh when we make the full application to Ocean you kind of answer the question little roundabout but you you aware that there
is a guard rail on the opposite side of that site on the opposite the side of the road if if it's on our survey then we have we have information on it yes okay so that uh makes it so people cannot Veer off the road there's no Side
Road on that there's no side uh leeway on that side of the road on this side right here okay there's a guard rail all the way up all the way down so that uh
M Mr R I'm sorry what is your question oh was that you okay I'm sorry not a problem just saying what is your question the question is is he aware that there's a guard rail on the opposite side of that site and there's
no shoulder to that road he had testified that it's on the the guard rails on the survey then they are aware of it okay so you're aware of that and what is your uh uh in terms of of a of a
rig entering and exiting that site these rigs uh how long are these rigs testimony of Miss sevino is part of the record the testimony Miss Severino was placed at the outset of the meeting
in June and she stated that the vehicles that were anticipating to come to the site are dump trucks and there may be some smaller lightweight trucks that come to the site for maintenance that's the testimony of the vehicles that and and we stand by the testimony that's made part of the record so will that be
a stipulation in the in the application because my history and my experience that that they're already using uh they were already using the lot for these monster machines so thank you m Mr Rivier you have made that
point I know the board has heard it um if there are any conditions that are going to be put on it will be put on by the board should they uh approve the application and desire to put in the conditions I think you've made the point on that I'm going to ask you if you have one more question for Mr antilly because
the next witness I believe is going to be the traffic engineer so some of these opportunities will these topics can be covered then Mr sanelly these lines up up here that I'm pointing to what are they all right I'll do it
again those lines what are they what what are they they they're called contour lines they're Contour they're evidence of uh consistent elevation along the ground 100 101
102 now I don't see any Wetlands delineation uh out of how many acres is this property 29.9 Acres um this if I may that and how many acres are
wetlands there are 26.2 leaves us about 2.7 Acres of developable so there's two 2.7 2 and a half acres but we really don't know that until do we have a Wetlands delineation on this
property we do we uh have been to the state of New Jersey for for our Wetlands delineation uh and permits we did receive those permits um they have been actually filed as conservation easements to the wetlands and the wetlands buffers
okay well be careful what you say I mean what what date did you do that Mr R Mr R sorry you you honestly you're questioning Mr anti well beyond the subject of his testimony um as you're getting no I'm going to I'm going to
just finish what I'm going to say to make a clean record all right so can I ask no no no I'm still finishing what I'm going to say okay which is that he had testified this is the stage where you can ask him questions about his testimony you have asked him questions and he has answered them regarding
topics Beyond his testimony there will be other Witnesses provided to the extent that you asked about the wetlands delineation he answers that that had been obtained um and if there's additional questions or comments that you want to make regarding wetlands delineation which is beyond the scope of
what his testimony was you will have that opportunity okay can I ask what date they were obtained okay that will be your final question to Mr anelli okay what date did you get the wetlands delineation from New Jersey D on April
1st 2012 the conservation easements for the W lands and wetlands buffer were filed in the county thank you those have expired to they don't exist anymore so I just want to let everybody know that what he's saying is fictitious and I
have a letter from New Jersey okay and when it's time for you to put on your case as an objector you'll be able to provide that letter all right I I don't appreciate people trying to pull things on people and that's what's happening you're welcome Mr PE with
permission may we call Mr Ray yes thank you Mr Ray also testified and his credentials were placed on the record I think his credentials went
on yeah at the June 19th meeting so I'll remind him that he is under oath and ask that the board acknowledge that his credentials are part of the record Mr you're I remind do I get sworn in again or no uh Mr uh seconds Mr Pap and
I will remind you that you're under o remain under oath thank you Mr inly has introduced to the board and the public a revision to the on-site circulation and your qualifications as a traffic engineer I'm going to ask first were you
aware of these revisions and did your firm participate with Mr antilly in its design yes we were aware of the revisions and we did participate in the design they came about as a result of previous meetings and um we were asked to contact
the Ocean County engineering department to see if they were amenable to us modifying the plan to have two separate driveways one for car traffic one for truck traffic we went to the county and we received a affirmative response from the county and you part you personally
participated discussions with the county yes I did thank you and if you could comment on the revisions to the circulation revisions to these driveways as follows we anticipate that there'll be emergency vehicles trash removal Vehicles there'll
be dump trucks there'll be small trucks and there'll be the general public driving their cars and trucks on the site can you comfortably advise the board that this plan is as efficient and safe as the original plan that that was presented yes it is is uh as you can see
from looking at the plan to the rear of the site there is a very generous area of pavement that will provide for adequate uh room for even the larger vehicles that will enter the site to pull in turn around get back out to West
commodor Boulevard so and the the truck traffic and the passenger vehicle traffic has been separated to the extent possible with the use of the two driveway system so there should be very little if any interaction between trucks and passenger
vehicles Madam chair board members I have nothing further of Mr Ray I wanted that point to be clear to the board if the board chose this plan we're very comfortable that it will function safely and
adequately excuse me sir I'm sorry I we can hear you so if you could either take a private conversation outside or or keep your voice down and I have no further undirect any questions or
comments RAR yes one question um regarding the truck traffic U would you recommend a sign be placed on the Eastern entrance to direct all the truck traffic on that yes that would work that would be acceptable to the applicant yes
okay that's all I have thank you any questions for Mr R Dr talking about truck tra any other heavy equipment that will be coming to the
site uh based on the applicant testimony I think uh heavy there are going to be dump trucks some tandem trucks the rear of the site has been designed by Mr antii for I believe a WB 50 which is a 50ft wheelbase which is the maximum size
of a truck that is anticipated to use the site any other questions Mr Ray Mr Peters questions okay thank you now Mr P sorry I once again um and Mr rier you have an
opportunity now to ask questions questions of Mr Ray specifically on Mr Ray's testimony I also um Wanted if if is there anyone else here who would like to ask a member of the public who has questions for Mr Ray
Madam chair actually I I do I'm I'm just going to try to jump in here because just to speed things up and and just to get through a round about way your concern just so we can just you have a concern obviously with the Wetland
preserve all of this correct and as far as when the report was done whether it's still good or not asking you guys what is your response to what he's trying to get about in a roundabout way going from
A to B so we can just get to A to B Mr Ray can't speak to Wetlands and I can tell you that the team that did all of the D permits included Mr inly but not all the w and approvals all of the approvals were secured the approvals
have expired on their terms they were perfected by the filing of easements in a timely manner and what we've indicated to the board at the last hearing is that we will go back to the DP to the extent that any of the permits are deemed to be
expired we acknowledge that there's a condition of any approval that all approvals and permits from outside agencies be in place we accept that burden we believe that they are in place because they were perfected by recording the conservation easements and delivering them to the D but will go to
the DP directly and confirm that as part of our resolution compliance did that respond to the question 100% so now I'm asking you why does that not satisfy you they're talk let's take one issue yeah
let's take one issue at a time let's if Mr Riv you have any specific questions regarding Mr Ray's testimony Okay so I uh what do you can you read this letter from New Jersey D and that's not what we're discussing Mr Riv we are
discussing the traffic okay Engineers you're you're you're representing to the zoning board that somehow these letter uh these uh Wetlands lineations see here we're discussing traffic engineering
just Mr Ray yeah right right now Mr Ray is still here under both the question is I just want to in my own defense it's very ner you know it's very nerve-wracking coming up here so please give me some slack so anyway um Mr Ray
the how many trucks a day do are you saying that are going to go into that site uh the applicant provided that testimony at a previous meeting I don't recall exactly what the number was but it's not going to be a significant amount of traffic okay now uh uh I
recall you said one truck a day I I don't recall saying that you'd have to provide am I allowed to talk about that I mean he's a traffic engineer yeah I yes I I was uh did not stop you I will certainly do so if I think that you are
outside the scope so that's that's a fine question to ask he is the traffic engineer you can ask him that I believe that he answered yeah the applicant testified as to the number of trucks that would be entering leaving during a typical day or during the week but I don't believe I
provided that testimony if I did I relied on the applicant okay now uh who is the applicant I believe they're sitting in the audience the applicant has never testified here I'm sorry Mr he's saying the applicant there's the applicant has
never testified here but the applicant is is first of all the applicant is an LLC so that the applicant is a A Partners LLC and it also appears that a representative of the applicant did
testify at an earlier hearing okay who was the representative of the I don't recall names I open 250 jobs a year I don't recall I didn't recall your name until this evening okay okay my point is the applicant uh um AV LLC has never
been here okay so so right but remember Mr Mr Rivier remember that this is only right wait the second we're only tested having questions for Mr Ray okay all right now in terms of the turning radius
did you take that in consideration the fact with the there's only a 32t road with a guard rail on the other side yes okay and um would that some of these trucks have to go in the opposite lane
to make a a uh 45 degree turn uh I do not believe so no excuse me I do not believe so no but whatever revisions may be required by Ocean County would be made after the county gets a chance to review the application assuming we get a
chance to make an application to the county okay your report also said didn't talk about the V your report covered the the the office building quite well well they had covered it and it did not speak
to the type of vehicle at all about that are going to go into the industrial excavation yard it was the report covered a combination of passenger vehicles and trucks that would enter and leave the
facility during peak hours it was a combination of both yeah but you never listed the type of trucks okay Mr Mr R just in the dark of what's going in there well actually I I will say I have been listening to testim in this case
for a total of about 35 minutes and I have heard testimony about the kinds of vehicles coming in and out so I think that question has been how long they are yes the width what's the length of them I believe that Mr Ray testified as to
the length of the uh um space that had been provided just a few minutes ago Mr Ray thank you yes uh could you uh I didn't maybe I didn't hear it could you repeat how what's the longest truck that's going in there uh I I don't know the total length of the truck but Mr in
Tilly designed the site to accommodate what we call a WB 50 articulated vehicle which is a vehicle with a 50ft wheelbase now the total length of the truck would be longer than 50 ft that would be just a wheelbase so that's the that's the
designed vehicle what's the turning radius for a vehicle it's been laid at Mr until he has it on his plan you need to take a look at his plan the turning radius is laid out it's on the plan how many feet does it take to turn I'm not going to give you an exact number Mr antiy laid the turning radius templates
out on the plan you can see if you look at the exhibit there is some up in the upper leftand corner of the exhibit there are some curves that show the turning radius of the vehicle there's a I believe there is a um a computer program called autoturn
that's probably what Mr antilly used you plug in WB 50 and it does the work for you so that's what what he did do you know if they have those trucks that's what it's been designed for so that's the information that's been given to Mr yes or no do you know
for sure no it's not a yes or no answer I'm trying to answer your question if you want me to answer it I'll answer it if you don't well you're you're you're you're really I just these are very simple questions and I gave you a simple answer you're saying something about Auto turn I've never witnessed anything
going you're not an engineer aut well and I don't know if p or the applicants even have those trucks I'm sorry Mr Riv could you ask a question at this point of Mr R if you have another question about his testimony all
right now when we you did your report you it appeared that you were using the minimum use the property could could uh uh could for the minimum use for the property not
accurate excuse me me not accurate what what's not accurate my statement that I used them yes your statement okay so when you say one truck a day I didn't say one truck a day you you cannot put words in my mouth I testified that the
applicant or an a representative of the applicant testified as to the number of trucks and whatever information they provided to the board I utilized but I do not recall saying one truck a day okay so the app
has made a statement that they only going to be doing one truck a day and that's what you based your traffic report on I that that was that that was testimony that was not and also that was not Mr Ray's statement he did not say that he
based it on one truck a day he said that the applicant or representative of the applicant had testified as to the number of trucks okay I also read your report there's no service trucks there's no uh
parch delivery trucks in your report we focus on the peak hour traffic and we utilize The Institute of Transportation Engineers trip generation manual for the size of the office building and the maintenance building that data is accepted by the New Jersey Department of
Transportation the Ocean County engineering department it is our standard that we use to project traffic and that's what I did all right so you're you didn't calc calate uh for Parts Supply trucks that's
included that's included in the trip generation analysis I didn't see it well it's not specifically called out but I did if you read the report I clearly indicated that we used the latest edition of the it trip generation manual
which is mandated by the county by the do so that's that's our business that's our standard Mr R I'm going to ask if you could ask your final question of Mr Ray okay I also didn't see any mention of
the employees of the conru y they're included in the trip generation analysis I didn't see it okay thank you Mr Rivier I that you as I said you will have the opportunity to put on your own case uh at the
conclusion of the applicants all right and I appreciate your guidance if I may um in June asme seino testified she was identified as a member of the applicant company she indicated that her mother her father and her
brother and she were the members and that she was and had been for quite a while the comproller of the company that was her opening statements she indicated during her testimony that they anticipated two or three trucks and dump
trucks that could be coming to the site on a daily basis and that there were some smaller vehicles that may come or testimony then went on to say there is a large company yard where they keep their vehicles this is not where they'll be keeping their vehicles and she also
indicated that the workers do not come to the site but she did testify that the maintenance building would have three employees again with permission I'll move to Allison coffen our professional planner is that acceptable yes thank
you Mr Pap I assume that Miss uh Calvin was previously under oath I don't believe I was then could you please raise your hand and confirm uh and swear that the testimony you'll give this board will be the truth and nothing but the truth yes I do and could
you please take your name and put your credentials before the record Allison coffin which is c ffi n like the box I am a licensed professional planner in the state of New Jersey I'm also certified by the American Institute of certified planners had my license in
certification for a little over 20 years now in that time I've been accepted as a witness in more than 100 communities throughout the state I have appeared here um as recently as last year for Coastal Classics I'm employed by James W Higgins Associates we're out of Ocean
Township M coffin this board will accept your credentials thank you m coffen I'm going to ask if you could first identify your responsibilities this evening and second share with the board and the public how
you prepare for these hearings I'd ask you confirm that you've been here and witnessed all of the testimony that's been placed on the record and then if you would take us through the required proofs and share with us your conclusions and professional opinion in
a narrative and I'll try very hard not to interrupt okay so my responsibility tonight uh is to provide the legal proofs necessary for the board should you see fit to Grant approval to allow you to Grant approval for this application to prepare for tonight I visited the site I've reviewed the
application materials I met with the applicant and the other members of the team I have read your board's professional review letters and I have been present at all of the hearings to date I've also looked at the master plan and your development ordinance the property that we're
looking at tonight is 28.9 Acres it's a parcel that runs from West Commodore Boulevard to Route 195 the lot does currently or did previously contain a small dwelling at the West Commodore Boulevard front AG with the majority of the site being wooded and undeveloped
26.2 Acres of this 28.9 ACR site is in a conservation easement and the remaining 2.7 acres is where the proposed development is located this smaller area is the basis for all the calculations for coverages uh not the entire larger
parcel this site is located in an area of mix uses including the Jackson Premium Outlet mall to the West as well as other office retail industrial quasi public and residential uses the applicant is requesting the board's permission to develop this site along
West Commodore Boulevard Frontage with a 9,000 sqt twostory office building a 4,000 foot Maintenance building and a contractor's yard with limited Outdoor Equipment storage site improvements include parking Landscaping lighting
signage and storm water management the primary occupant of the site will be PM construction who will have their corporate headquarters on the second floor of the office building in association with the vehicle storage yard and maintenance building to the rear business conducted by this entity
includes site clearing excavations soil erosion measures concrete work asphalt milling and Paving utility installation and storm water installation and a principal from this business Miss Esme svino previously testified as to the operations of the business including the
types of vehicles to be present on site um number of office employees the number of maintenance employees the hours of operation uh that that Maintenance building to the rear is used for routine maintenance such as oil and filter changes and tire changes and all maintenance work is done inside that
structure and that the limited material storage to the rear in that contractor's yard is mostly leftovers from job sites including things such as pipes and water mains and hydrants and in the office building on the ground floor there are two other non-medical office attendants
that would occupy those spaces over the past uh hearings I have watched the engineer present the site plan and amend it in response to the board's questions and the neighbors concerns providing for a plan with a secondary driveway and reducing or eliminating some of the bulk
variances including uh previously appro proposed variants for parking setback moving the sign to a conforming setback reducing the sign area from 65 squet to 34 Square ft reducing the sign height from 10t to 8 ft uh removing a
previously proposed diesel fuel tank and now moving the truck driveway away from the residential neighbor I've heard testimony from the traffic expert who identified the truck traffic to the site as limited perhaps several truck movements over the course of the week and lastly I have heard the testimony and reviewed the plans that were
provided by the architect the lot is zoned HC Highway commercial permitted uses in this Zone include a variety of commercial and public uses but of particular interest to this CL case it includes business materials retail sales establishments
excluding however lumber yards or other similar uses commercial office commercial retail uses contractor's offices showrooms garages warehouses and shops provided however that all materials and Equipment are stored within a completely enclosed building
and combinations of two or more of those uses in one principal building so the proposed office use is permitted the contractor's facility is a permitted use uh Maintenance building is permitted as part of a contractor's use but since we have some outdoor storage associated
with that rear use of the site a use variance is required so the applicant is requesting D1 variance relief and we also have the presence of two principal uses u in two structures uh there is no bulk variance relief required for lot area width
Frontage depth setbacks height building coverage impervious coverage or parking setback the only only two bulk variances which the applicant is still requesting are limited to the signs the sign area permitted is 30 square fet and at 34 square feet we're slightly over and a
sign height of 6 feet is permitted we were originally at 10 feet the applicants reduced that to 8 feet so now as for the proofs that you need if you wish to Grant this variance it's my opinion that special reasons do exist for the granting of the requested
variances and the variances can be granted without detriment to the health safety and general welfare of the public special reasons for the granting of the use variants exist here in that this site is particularly suited to the proposed use this site is extremely
large relative to the requirements of the Zone having just under 29 Acres where the minimum lot size is 40,000 square ft even when we consider just the 2.7 acre area outside the conservation ement the usable area is nearly three
times the lot minimum required the significant size of this l lot indicates that the parcel can easily accommodate two principal structures the site is located on a county road with close proximity to a signalized intersection and the site is located in an area of mixed uses including the Jackson Premium
Outlets to the Southwest which is a significant commercial operation the Chamber of Commerce to the West residences along West commodor to the East and other nonresidential uses to the Northwest including the church a gas station a pharmaceutical company and other retail uses the proposed office
bill with the ancillary storage and maintenance yard is a good fit for this diverse area the site again is located in the HC commercial District which permits some of the permitted uses as well as uses which are similar to the non-permitted uses proposed The Zone
permits a contractor's office showroom garage or house and Shop the proposed maintenance garage is similar to the garage permitted as part of a contractor's business and the proposed limited outdoor storage of equipment is integral to the construction use and is similar to the permitted access use of
bulk storage which indicates that it is appropriately located in this zone so in summary large side size of this lot its proximity to intense commercial development its location on a county road with easy access to other County Roads and the interstate highway system
and its current zoning which permits much of the proposed activity combined to make this parcel ideally and uniquely suited to the proposed development and this advances the purpose of the new Municipal land use law by providing for an appropriate use in an appropriate location which is purpose G and
promoting the conservation of valuable natural resources through that conservation easement which is purpose J now as to the bulk variances the C variance relief it's my opinion that these are Justified the signage area is necessary to allow for the identification of multiple tenants in
the office building and the proposed sign height helps accommodate the necessary area and allows for that two- foot of clearance at the bottom for landscaping so that's where we get the extra 2 feet of height that's at the bottom uh there's no detriment in my opinion to the proposed variances the
proposed use is appropriate for the site and compatible with the surrounding area which has a diverse mix of uses the site can accommodate the use without any need for setback or coverage variances the site plan provides for ample parking and safe adequate circulation the proposed
Landscaping creates an aesthetically pleasing impact to the roadway helping to screen the storage area to the rear from public view particularly from the neighboring lot and the traffic impact would be consistent with other permitted uses uh the last test for a variance is
whether or not it would substantially impair the intended purpose of your master plan and development ordinance it's my opinion that it would not the nature of the use variant proposed is not really a huge deviation from your zoning which permits offices so the offices are permitted it permits
contractor's offices showrooms garages warehouses and shops the proposed storage yard and maintenance garage are within the spirit of the intent of this section except that the vehicles are not stored completely within an enclosed building um and we have a combination of
permitted uses provided that they are contained within a s single principal structure is another permitted use uh whereas this application includes two principal structures bulk storage is also permitted as an accessory use in this Zone the proposed storage yard
meets all applicable standards for bulk storage at subsection which reads that no bulk storage of materials or equipment shall be permitted in any required front yard area or within 100 feet of a public Street whichever is greater this complies no bulk storage of materials or
equipment shall be permitted between any side or rear lot line and the required CER rear yard setback or not in a CER rear yard all bulk storage areas shall be screened from public view by means of suitable fencing Andor Evergreen plantings as required by the municipal
agency um where the property is adjacent to a residential Zone the screening shall meet the requirements established in another section if we meet these requirements no fence used to screen a bulk storage area shall be close placed closer to any property line than the distance constituting the required front
side or rear yard setbacks uh we comply all Service Roads driveways and bulk storage areas shall be paved with pinous concrete or other surfacing materials and we comply and in no instances shall on-site bulk storage of material exceed a height of 10 ft will comply with that
and no heavy equipment shall be oper operated or parked closer to the front property line than the required front yard set PL plus 50 feet and this site complies with that so in so far as bulk storage is permitted as an accessory use the storage of the the pipes and the
hydrant would meet those standards there is no Zone in the township which would permit this development without identical relief for storage not contained within a building with two princi structures and the maintenance garage this specific
combination of uses as a multi-tenanted office building with an Associated contractor's corporate headquarters supported by an ancillary storage and maintenance yard is simply not anticipated in your ordinance the use proposed however is substantially similar in character and scale to the
other uses permitted in the zone indicating that the HC Highway commercial zone is an appropriate area to accommodate this office with ancillary storage and maintenance yard the site itself is unique in its size and location which makes it ideally suited to the combination of uses and
granting relief under these conditions would therefore not impair your larger Zone plan so for those reasons it's my opinion that the positive reasons exist for the granting of the requested variances they can be granted without detriment to the health safety and general welfare of the public and the
granting of the variances would result in an improvement of the site in a manner which is consistent with the intend and purpose of your master plan and development ordinance I think that Miss coffen statements were fairly complete I think the depth of her
Research into the ordinances is clear and I think the conclusions that she has drawn are based on the facts that she relied upon and I choose not to have any further questions of Miss coffen she is available to you at this time any questions for this witness yes
uh will there be any to materials or substances on the property we've agreed the the the only potential for that was if we had a fueling facility and we've agreed there isn't a fueling facility that we've removed it from the plan and the record
will reflect the type of materials that would be stored are typically pipe and some stone that type of material so the answer is no it's there there's nothing that's hazardous or toxic okay and in the maintenance shop what type of Maintenance will be done
um there was testimony by Miss srino again at the June meeting she said typically it's um the type of work would be changing of changing of oil changing of filters tire repair light bulb repair Light maintenance on the vehicles the
heavy duty of maintenance on the vehicles occurs at the construction sites there's actually people who go to the vehicles and do the work when they break down this is just for service so and any fluids that are removed from the
uh Vehicles will that be stored and uh gotten rid of the right way disposed of the right way right way is through through a licensed hauler yes thank you any other questions for Miss
coffin Mr RAR Mr Peters yes yes in fact they ensured that by making sure there were no bathrooms in the back building it's not going to ever stand on its own succession grow the um the what I can place on the
record is that we have from the very beginning begin stated that this would be an ancillary or support element of the applicant's business and the applicant representation is that the second floor of the building would be used for their business offices what we
can stipulate we can't guarantee that this company will last in perpetuity but we can stipulate that the second floor of this building shall be offices that are the same same tenant as the tenant in the um tenant in the 4,000
Maintenance building and that there would be no third-party tenants that there would always be that Nexus and if that Nexus was to be broken it would can only be broken by coming before this board and asking for a modification of relief Mr rire any questions
thas all right any other questions from the board Mr Rivier do you have any questions for the planner for Miss coffin do you have any questions okay when you did your study of the application and your name is
Allison or what what do I what's your last name you can call me Mrs coffin huh Mrs coffin Coffer coffin like the box that we all want to stay out of oh boy okay and if you could just remember remember to speak into the microphone please thank you now when you did your
study of the uh of the uh application did you view the aerial view of uh across the street yes um how many homes residential homes are right across the street none right
across the street from this development are you sure about that um I don't have an aerial in front of me and I did not do a count of them okay how many homes are to the to the to the south of it in the north of it I don't have account of that you don't know now
um so now how many homes are in the general vicinity I did not count them okay you did not count them all right what is The Zone across the way for this I do not recall I don't believe
that's on the plans that I have in front of me I didn't hear your answer her her answer is that she does not recall and it is not part of the plans in front of her well it it it's relevant because these people live right across
the street okay and that is your reason for asking it but your question was asked and answered as I said you'll be able to put your thoughts before the board when you put your case on conclusion of the applicant's case uh we
talked about toxic materials at the site now um did you take in consideration that all these homes that are in the adjoining the site are using wellwater there are no toxic materials at the site
there's no toxic materials at a excavation Repair Garage there might be small amounts of motor oil inside why do you say that why do you say that because they're doing maintenance and oil changes you are are you a mechanic i i how do you say that I don't understand
with my mouth it's your what Mr Rivier Mr Rivier the question was answered if you have a followup question could you help me yeah she answered that there would be could be small amounts of oil present
because there were being oil changes that was her and her testimony okay will they be steam cleaning the trucks there no okay is that in going to be stipulated I mean how do we know that
the minute they get approval they just don't go gung-ho and do anything they want that's an Enforcement issue sir that's not a part of that would not be part of the zoning board that would be an Enforcement issue okay in terms of the
noise have you considered the how with the deciples of a of a of a backup alarm of a major of a big dump truck it would not be different than the decb for a backup alarm on a dump truck for a
permitted contractor's yard you just said there would not be any noise I didn't hear what you said no that is not what she said she said she said that it would not be any louder than the backup alarms for vehicles in a permitted
contractor's yard okay and could it can that be heard by The Neighbors I think that the best way to handle sound generation is to indicate that neither this board nor the governing body has the power to Grant any relief
from the state standards for sound creation there are standards that have to be met the applicant must meet them if the applicant is not meeting them the any activity that's viol violative will be stopped that's the way the state law is written okay now the 6:00 a.m. to 6:
p.m. Construction yard uh when you take in consideration the 30 some OD home surrounding it do you think that might uh uh disturb the homes around them um it would not be any different than if it were a permitted contractor's
yard operating at the same time so it's not relative to the use variants requested and how would you would you uh if as a planner um would you consider this an industrial use no it's a it's a commercial
use then why all right all right so uh it's a you're saying you're classifying is as commercial use yes okay is it permitted in this highway commercial Zone most aspects of this use are
permitted yes what aspects are not permitted The Outdoor Store storage of materials okay there's uh a string of homes on the south of this that are very near it very near now on with the backup alarms you know and the duck the dump
trucks making noise and the the the hatches clanging um at 6:00 a.m. in the morning you don't you're saying that's not going to be a problem to those people what I'm saying is that is no different than the
permitted uses the permitted uses is Highway commercial yes right and uh not trucks and Industrial use permitted uses include contractors offices showrooms garages warehouses and
shops for for uh industrial type Vehicles it does not specify in the ordinance what type of vehicle okay so I live right here right there are you telling me I'm not going to uh be disturbed by 6:00 a 6 pm. uh
excavation construction yard and repair Mr rier I going to say you you've gone through this line of of questioning and I think that the answer from Miss coffin is clear that it's not a question she's
not answering you in terms of whether people will be disturbed but answering you repeatedly that you will not be that their disturbance would not be any greater than would be for uses that are permitted in the zone is that correct
correct all right let me look through my notes and then I'll wrap it up I just want to make thank you very much Mr R okay okay now there's three Office Buildings now four right four office sections there's one office building with four sections
there's one office building with one tenant upstairs and two tenants downstairs okay so there's three yes okay now if they rent one of their office to another Construction Company well can the
construction company start using that that uh excavation yard and repair shop the statements that I made on behalf of the applicant in response to Mr Peter's questioning was that we would agree that as a condition of approval
that the office on the second floor would always be the same owner or tenant that uses the building in the rear we indicate you can't guarantee in perpetuity that businesses won't change but we can guarantee that the two uses
would always be operated by a single entity okay so you're saying that uh there's hardly any toxic material in this uh excavation repair shop and that there's no chance that a toxic material can be accidentally leaked on the
property that is consistent with the prior Witnesses testimony but there is a chance right I mean if a truck has a problem with the fuel tank isn't there a chance that a lot of
toxic material can leak onto that property Mr Riv I I think that your point has been made okay all right CH not you can't say it's not going to happen but it could excuse me and I don't mean to sound a little abrupt here it could happen in your yard
with your oil they've stated on the record multiple times that there are no toxic materials outside you'll be doing oil changes and things inside so we have to take that into consideration as far as could something leak your car could leak oil
oh you just reminded me another question thank you Mr re this will be your last question of this witness now you stated that there was a 50 foot buffer between uh the the wetlands and the site plan no I did not oh what did you say that was
not my testimony I did not address that now the fact that we don't know where the delineations are does that have any impact on your on your report it does not have any impact on my
testimony so if you on the negative side there is no environmental impact study does that have any impact on your report this an environmental impact study it was provided to the board as part of the application
Mr R well wait a minute wait a minute he St making a mistat what day does that Empire impact study okay I'm sorry Mr R not here to question Mr P but I should be able to correct them when he makes statements and and you will have every opportunity
to put your own version of what you believe is relevant before the board okay then thank you Madam chair other than an opportunity to provide a detailed summary and a summation which I respectfully request
to hold until you have your seven member board the applicant is prepared to rest S one second okay all right excuse me Mr rier I I'm sorry
so thank you I'm just trying to get the truth out that's all I'm trying to do well first speak into the microphone I'll say I appreciate your uh patience and guidance and my only objective is to get the truth out okay well to that end that's the
question I have to ask ask you now so as I said you have the opportunity to put your case on when the applicant has rested and I'm going to give you an um two choices so Mr Pape has just rested
for the applicant he is going to come back at a later date when there's a full Board of seven people and give a summation so you have the option of either putting your case on now and we'll put some time aside for you to do that or
but it is in either it is one or the other oh I can't choose both no exactly or you can wait until obviously I I would prefer to wait because uh it's very important to hear my information prior to you the board
making its decision I would also encourage him to read Mr per uh Peter planning board report because that is basically sir yeah well I'm encourage you to read it we have yes yes okay all right I don't know if everybody has so
sir the the board will certainly take all information so just so we're clear because I want you to at the next ma time that this matter is heard some time will be set aside not an unlimited amount of time but time will be set
aside for you to present your uh case which be able to be any comments any documents any testimony that you want to provide will be done at that time okay now I just want to clarify next meeting well at the next meeting at this
which this matter is heard this matter yeah uh Mr Pape has rested his case yes he will be providing a summation at that time so he will speak again and then I will be able to uh present my objector
case at that time after him but Mr River's obor's case is to be concluded before we have any obligation to summary and summation that's correct so do you understand that Mr Rivier no I didn't understand it okay so what will happen when this matter is called again is
we'll begin with your case so when the matter is called it will be your objector case you will put whatever case you want to put on within a reasonable amount of time and then when you have rested Mr Pape will give his summary to
the board and then the board will will uh discuss the matter and vote in all likelihood we'll vote on that night okay do I have the option to be in the last person to make a presentation no you do not okay and after that you're going to have a public
hearing so after you put your case on and Mr Pape does it there is an opportunity for public comment yes okay so after he does after I do my case and he does his summation he open it up to
the public no no no no so we're going to open it up to the public now and after you do your case we'll open it up to the public then Mr Pape will have the opportunity to give his summary and then the board will act okay so if anything
he says is wrong in the summary there's no way to counter it that doesn't seem fair well I you have been here for I think it's now the fourth hearing and these hearings are all televised or recorded um so I'm showing my age
they're all available on YouTube okay um so you know my point if he says something that's incorrect and the public knows it's incorrect they should be able to be heard to to carry the truth the procedure that I just laid out
is the procedure that we're going to use but I have great confidence that you will be reviewing everything that's been said between now and when you present your case and any inaccuracies that you have heard to date
you will point out to the board at that time okay I don't want to go back and forth but I don't I can't anticipate what he's going to say so I can't rebut it so anyway that that doesn't make sense to me all right well thank you very much I choose to come back I'm not
going to do it now because I don't know who's voting and um um I'll choose to come back when when uh we we heard this I want to say though there is a problem the problem is my objetives are worn out
I had four five people and and you Mr R yeah I'm sorry I'm sorry sorry I'm going to we allowed you to speak and question the witnesses that the professionals excuse me who testified this evening I am once you're done going to open it to anyone else here in the public to make a
public comment they have that right as well okay I'm just saying that so many meetings Mr hak said you honestly Mr R that's something that happens frequently them out it it's it wears them out they stop coming yeah and that is a that is a frequent occurrence with uh with
applications unfortunately there's not a way to observe that okay well I've read someplace that's also a tactic all right so thank you very much thank you yes mrman uh is there a way that uh we can get some kind of
consensus from the board members about this application and possibly actually vote on it tonight or you're specifically want to wait for seven I just think that we've heard it many many times I think for the benefit of the um the board and the public it would be
beneficial to actually you know Mr hman in order to do that Mr Rivier would have to have this opportunity to put on his correct case correct uh Mr Pape is uh had I'm looking I'm Los my word I'm sorry forgive me Mr Pap already spoke with miss ciani being that we did not
have full Board of seven that we would hear the testimony being that they have come back several times and didn't want to uh inconvenience anyone any further that we would have the testimony tonight but that we would come back to vote that they would come back for the vote I hope that makes sense yeah I and
I understand as I understand it I think uh Mr rman did understand that he was making a suggest SL request but it is Mr Pap's right corre correct I was just asking if you would you know consider getting consensus and possibly actually having a vote but I guess that
understanding is that you don't want to if you're suggesting that there's the board goes through a straw poll prior to that that's there no no straw pole no straw PA I I was going to say if that's what you was I my thank
you my strong preference is that there's full Board of seven and um Mr River wants to have his his time if I could when we concluded at the September
meeting I as I identified that some of the witnesses testimony had concluded Mr rasi's and I asked if he had and he had been examined by the board and examined by the the public and by the board's professionals I asked if they could be
those Witnesses who qualified could be excused from the further hearing this evening as you open it to the public and Mr Rivier has examined all of our Witnesses if there's anyone else who wishes to examine our witnesses that they do so and then I am
going to ask Madam chair and counselor that those Witnesses who have so been examined and have and I rested that they are not required to be here during Mr River's presentation or my summation is that an acceptable procedure yes thank
you all that being said said I'm not going to open it to the public anyone wishing to come forward to make any comments about what you've heard this evening please do so at this time yes and this is on this application and also just to what Mr pit said please um as
you come forward if you have any questions for the professionals that testify tonight please let us know just sir if you could come to the microphone this morning please sir could you please raise right
your right hand hand do you swear that the uh comments you'll make to this board will be the truth and nothing about the truth yes I do and could you please state your name for the record George Lucas my address is 990 West Commodore Boulevard thank you Mr
Lucas okay um just a fast comment um I've lived in this town for 25 years I do live virtually right across from the proposed plan um this
will reduce the value of my house and I believe also my neighbor Don Kaiser who's next to me and also there was another house across 571 from me would be a NE the neighbor to this
proposed um project um that's pretty much what I have to say I mean I think this is a bad idea the traffic as you know I'm sure all of you travel on 571 to get up by the
outlets is terrible it backs up to my driveway in the morning there are dump trucks running every day on this road um I really don't think this project can
handle the way this road is is designed I'm wondering if there's any um proposals of Road Improvement here can I for a second I'm happy would forgive me
okay as far as Road improvements that would be handled by the county because that's a county road so unfortunately that's not something that we have any jurisdiction over that would be under the County's jurisdiction okay I was I mean I was just wondering you know I mean I'm just your average de blow so
believe it or not so are we residents of town just like you are I mean I used not that this matters but I used to work at engineering firms as a drafter so I can read these plans I know what exactly how it reads because I used to draw
them um I was a drafter for about 40 years so I can look at this plan and read it to the tap seeing them every day um I just don't like it that's just my opinion for whatever it's
worth um we have school buses traveling up and down this highway you name it it's on this road I don't see how these size trucks can drive across 571 onto traffic in and
out just because of the traffic flow and I do live within ice shot I can see this place I see it every day I look out at my house I see this property for the past 25 years I've been
living here so with this proposed project it's given me much more incentive now to move out um I like living here my kids went to school here all the schooling systems been
great but now I'm like totally turned off with this town it's a shame I don't like what's going on and I tell you what if this plan is
approved let me know as soon as possible so I can put up a first sale sign because my house will be the value is going down we just had a reval in town my house is valued now at 6 and a
quarter roughly chop that in a half right now I'm also licensed in real estate so I know real estate so that's pretty much a nutshell thank
you for your time thank you for coming forward sir yes can I can I just ask you something sir uh I'm just trying to understand your comments a little bit uh this property that we have here is a Highway commercial Zone it is in the
highway commercial zone is there something something that you would prefer better than this specific application meaning this is going to generate more foot traffic or car traffic because it is in the highway commercial zone so my my understanding
is you're not specifically against the actual use of this application you don't want to see any kind of commercial being built on this the issue that I'm trying to you know understand here I'd prefer it not to be built on at all no that I understand but every everybody owns a
property they have property I know that they have the right to build there so I know that you you you do own a property which was across the street from something which is Highway commercial so I don't you may not have known that when you actually bought it but it was zon
that way so it was anticipated that at some point someone was going to develop this property so well so understand your issue is your issue specific to this application or is it in general the fact that it will be developed is something that you despise
oh to answer your question I don't like what's proposed if that answers your question I don't like this plan put it this way I'm just trying to understand the reason it's because it's going to degrade the value of my property that's
the bottom line that's what I think it's going to do is any different than any other other commercial us I'd rather see if you're asking me this I'd rather see an office building that's it like Crossroads realy
is right down the road from me where I'm licensed I'd rather see a regular office building little strip mall whatever it is on two and a half acres that's not a lot of property I'm on an
acre so you're telling me this prop plan 22 acres is big enough for all of this I wonder about that two and a half acres is not a lot of property I've
surveyed I've been a I'm not licensed but I've done surveying work for 30 years I surveyed my own property I know a property uh surrounds and all two and a half acres is not a big piece of
property for this that's my this is to me it's a bad idea you want to know what I'd like to see there just like I said maybe a office building
whatever something that's not going to generate heavy truck traffic because let's face it you all know what the traffic flow is like on this rad it's terrible and it's only 30 foot
30 foot wide Road you got right now we have dump trucks sailing up and down in front of my house every day when I first moved in this town it wasn't too bad now the
traffic is probably triple the amount I see it every day I live here I live it I'm right across the road and for this woman to say there's no houses around I'm right across from it
so sir I don't I I totally understand your concern and I agree with you that it will cause um more vehicular traffic um just it is zoned for that meaning it's zoned for Highway commercial which will naturally generate more traffic uh
and if that's the concern then regardless of the actual use that will be developed there will be um more traffic so while I understand well I know that we know it's going to create more traffic correct but there's nothing that this board has um jurisdiction over
if it's zoned for this then this is what they're allowed to do right the only reason why they're here is specifically for the use of the outdoor storage so but that that that itself is not
changing the intensity of the property like their planner testified before they would be able to have those Vehicles if were stored inside um the contractors Weare us so it's just that the actual you're just saying that you don't like
the commercial use period which I totally understand so well that in the fact let's face it um it's not going to do anything to upgrade the value of my house unfortunately that's not something we could uh take consideration well I
know that but still that that mean that's my opinion okay thank you appreciate it thank you thank you for coming forward anyone else wishing to come forward at this time my name's can you hear me my name's Bonnie Rivier I live at 1009 West
Commodore right next door I'm sorry could you could you please raise your right hand oh sure yes do you swear that the comments you'll make to this board will be the truth and nothing but the truth yes and thank you and you had just stated your name um Bonnie say say it again Bon
riv9 West Commodore Boulevard right next door to the proposed um project um you know I'm not a real estate expert but I from what I understand that
this requires a a a d variant and when I looked that up it gave me like some you know things to think about it first of all um and I'm sorry I'm very nervous nervous things are just flying out of my head um that
it shouldn't have a negative impact on the public and it obviously does I mean there's no one that I've talked to and I've talked to several Neighbors in the area that think thinks that this is going to have a positive impact and the fact that there's a part of this project
that isn't complying with the the zoning that's already there is a problem and I don't understand why the to would want to permit something like that when you don't have
to you know no one wants it there's no benefit to anybody around that around there except for the applicants and it's not doing anybody any good there's no positives at all in my opinion and in most of the people
that I talk to and you know you're supposed to to you know be able to say that there's a positive and that there's no negative impact and to me there's you this project meets meets neither
one and to go along with what my neighbor just said um you know we consulted a real estate agent we had a professional come in and he he looked at um you know what we had the pro you know what the project was
proposed and he wrote a letter and he you know basically said the same thing it would neg negatively impact unfortunately like Mr Heyman pointed out though and I I apologize for interrupting you like Mr Heyman pointed out as the as a zoning board that is not something we can take into consideration
we have to follow a law the municipal land use law but you don't have to approve something that doesn't meet the variant I understand that but I'm just letting you know we cannot take into consideration uh the property value well you know it's you're it it
it's a downgrade in the neighborhood you know and it affects a lot of people and as he said before the traffic is bad I can't imagine and I was there one day when they were pulling out the the vehicles that were already there and the
the people that were pulling out had to one had to get out of the truck stop the traffic let the vehicle pull around he tied up the traffic even more and if you go if you go down that road in the morning between 7 and 9: that traffic is
backed up over all the way to um past my house to my neighbor's house so I don't know how you know it's going to work out it just seems like a very bad plan and I think if you don't have to approve it if there's something that is in the project
that allows you to not approve it that's what you should do that's my opinion thank you no because you just to correct well Mr Heyman has a question no I just wanted to say that you know you're making a comment that we shouldn't even
you know sort of consider um this application because it's not comp you know it's not compliant um or it's not conforming to the actual Zone This Is A Highway commercial Zone the neighboring property the objector uh and yourself
are your home is in the highway commercial Zone and you came before this board to get an approval to build a home in the highway commercial zone so the the same way that you had the right to come in front of this board to get an
approval to build your home you very well knew that the H that the property next door can be developed and even you know as a highway commercial development and they have the same right as you had to come before
this board and ask for a change of that use as well so while I understand your concern everybody has the right to come in front of this board and make those requests and we have to take those legal considerations um and determination to
every application and while I again I understand your concern but this is anybody that's here tonight um that has that lives in the vicinity understands that you live in the vicinity of a harbor commercial Zone which is
bordering residential so always nobody wants that commercial to be developed next to them but if it's zoned for that purpose I don't really the I have an office building right next to me on the other side and it's fine doesn't bother me you know cars go in and out it's it's
not a big problem it looks nice it's got great Landscaping it's a nice building you know there's a lot there's a difference between that and having Industrial Vehicles pulling in and out
of a property but Mr I I don't I that's that's the way I see it this is is difference is when when we built our house no I don't think any of the neighbors complained yeah but here's the difference ma'am and although we can trust me we're all residents of the town
here we understand what you're saying what we're trying to explain however is two things that's the whole purpose of a zoning board there it's zoned Highway commercial and you wanted to do something different than what was acceptable on the highway commercial hold on please you wanted to do
something different build a home in a highway commercial Zone you had the right of a as a taxpaying citizen of Jackson to come before this board present your case just like this applicant and make make your argument on why you should be allowed to uh build a
home there which you were it was okay you were granted the variant and you built your home they have the same right whether it's approved or not I'm just stating that they have the same right that's number one and number two like um Mr Heyman points it out we also have to
be you have to remember that's a nice office building on one side but it's a highway commercial Zone as Miss coffin so eloquently explained there are a variety of uses that could also be approved such as a Contractor's Warehouse where you'd have the exact
same thing the only thing they are here for other than the signage I don't I don't want to get this messed up so if I do please correct me the only reason they are here other than the signage is because there will be pipes and things like that and stone stored outside and
that is the only thing that is not permitted in this Zone in the highway commercial Zone they could have that office building they could have that inside building where they're going to do repairs so understand although I understand what you're saying that beautiful office building is not the
only thing allowed in a highway commercial Zone I understand that but but we didn't need a variant a a d variant to put you know to get our zoning approved you know this but it was still a CH you still a change it was still a change a change yes but it
wasn't a as big of a change and it was and and it actually if you look at it from um most people's perspective it was an improvement well and thank you ma'am and you know your points have been made just to make a comment Dr hold on one
second excuse me one second I'm sorry forgive me both Mr HUD Dr I have a question being that he is the objector and we've already established he will come put on his case at the next hearing is it appropriate for him to make a public comment I would think not no Mr
Rivier you have the opportunity to put on your case you've already identified yourself as a formal objector and have the opportunity to uh make your case through that that testimony well I've been an avid view YouTube VI uh viewer
and I know the objectors can also come back back on the uh uh public comment I've seen it happen well you want Mr Riv I let's keep can you are you able to make a short public comment I
ask that of you it will be and this goes along uh Mr hofstein and mosha um talking about Highway commercial okay this is not Highway commercial take away the uh the industrial use and maybe
we won't be here if it was an office building I'd be happy if it was a small mall or something like that go across the border and get a bagel I'd be happy the point
is you have to get a use variance of D because of the cons the industrial excavation it's not indre that is not true that is incorrect not true as it was stated many times on the record they would be able to have these trucks coming and going
on this property if it was used as a Contractor's Warehouse the only reason why they're here is for the outdoor storage otherwise they would not be here well I have to check into that but I want to tell you that they the office
they're at now is light industrial it's located in a light industrial area that's so I don't want to go back here in jackon and that's but the huge trucks is a is a is a major deal kill if if they want to come back with normal
Highway commercial you come back and put your case on at the next whenever the date is established for the next hearing okay thank you not nothing about even this I just want to thank M Mrs
Riani you're so cordial and you're so nice and um you're so patient and I really appreciate it such a change from what we used to so thank you w well thank you very much for making those comments
that have one comment Mrs wait hold on Dr hin is there anyone else from the public who wish to come forward and make any comments at this time seeing no one else come forward I'm going to close public session Dr hin yes
um Mr you uh hearded when uh you received your resolution to build your house which is resolution 2014- 28 that was a little over 10 years ago you did come before this board to
ask for a use variance which you received I remember quite well I was on the board then uh your son uh represented uh your application at that time but you did receive a use variants
and you requested that to be able to build your home uh with uh permission from Department of D and uh that that's why you were here but you did receive the D variance that I was just going to Sir Mr
R please I I was just going to say that you know you you came before this board uh 10 years ago you got your approval for your home and um what is Riviera advocacy Group LLC that seems to
be registered to your home address I'm a consultant and it's based in Monroe well if you go on to Google Maps and you put in your address it comes up that Riviera
advocacy group 11 L LC is your home and it refers to a law firm perhaps that's your son's I don't know no we don't operate any business out don't okay you'll have to talk to Google I'm trying to tell you it's the truth we don't
operate any business okay thank you yeah I don't know if it's okay if he uses the mailing address I have no clue but there's no legal no nothing and I I can assure you that okay thank thank you Mr
P future date is who have testified are Steve rasi the architect Michael and Tilly the engineer John Ray and Scott Kennel both as the Traffic Engineers Allison coffin who am I missing I'm not missing anybody
th all of those Witnesses have concluded their testimony we have rested examination of all the witnesses by the public and the board and the board's professionals has concluded been asked specifically may I come to the meeting the next meeting without those persons
um just so the record's clear yes that would be appropriate thank you then I look to you and to establish when we return okay so let's F out what that date is is anyone over in that section of the room able to give us what the next date
would be it's probably be May well no no no the next meeting with availability I'm thinking the second meeting in May potentially I'm sorry we carry jcpnl to May 7th Madam chair I'm out of the country
from the 13th to the 31st of May I guess we're looking in junee 4th June 4th then June 4th may I ask that the record reflect that it's carried without the requirement of re
notice or republication yes so this matter will be carried till June 4th there will be no additional notice um Mr River I'm looking specifically at you so on June 4th you would have the opportunity to present your case
understood okay thank you thank you all and good night see you in June thank you we are going to take a quick t 10 minute break we'll return at 5 after 9 know to go
e e e e e e e e e e
e e e e e e e e e e okay we're going to call this meeting
back to order the floor is yours good evening Madam chair members of the board Dante alfy on behalf of the applicant we are here with regards to 747 Toms River Road it's a ocated application we hear for the board's
approval with relation to the use variants if the board acts favorably tonight we will be back for the board for the site plan application um I do have one individual to provide testimony he's going to wear two hats tonight Mr Murphy um so without further Ado I'm
going to have him come up and be sworn in oh I'm sorry uh do you swear that the testim that you're going to give this board will be the truth and nothing but the truth I do and could you please take your name again for the record and put your credentials real on the record sure
ran Murphy Murphy 1856 route N9 in Tom River I'm a principal FW Associates licensed professional planner and engineer in state of New Jersey been before this board and roughly 100 other boards throughout the state this boardly accept your credentials Mr mury thank
you okay uh the application as indicated for 720 747 Toms of road it's consisting of 2.4 acres in the PV Zone um could you put up the aerial uh North is basically up on this app on this plan uh you'll notice the
site is almost entirely cleared uh this is a Google Earth aial shot of the property um and historically there was some storage out here my earliest memories there's been food trucks out here uh almost my entire
life um there's a houses to the west to the north and there's one to the east in this northeast corner um all these houses have access out to lakeer Road not to Toms River Road or
571 um you'll notice there's a substantial wooded area here uh this is a stream Corridor that runs through this area crosses under 571 and goes into the area to the South uh all this area is
basically preserved as 600 foot buffers off the uh off the section of THS river that runs uh east to west uh parallel to 571 in this area um the the stream is actually off the site off the this picture but um it's on the other side of
the road uh with the uh stream that runs through here there's a 240 foot buffer off of here we are in the Pinelands area um and that buffer basically consumes roughly 60% of the site uh unfortunately it cuts across the the bulk of the front
of the site so we only have the small area on that southwest corner uh for Access into the site uh even though you can see historically there's there's a trail that kind of loops around uh we we
leave legally can't improve that access that's on the east side of the property uh so we'd have to basically improve that west side and only have access off of there uh could you bring up the um the site plan please yeah it should should be in the
same file there we go perfect uh what we're proposing is a very modest 740t building uh it's going to have an office a garage for storage of material and uh and a bathroom um
that's basically located on that West Side uh as indicated the access would come off that southwest corner outside of the buffer uh I apologize I should have highlighted the buffer better uh it's hard to see on this plan but I'll follow it with my
my pen basically runs along this dash line so you can see it takes up a substantial amount of the property um in the rear rear area of the property we're going to have a storage yard um gravel
storage yard uh for uh for material um and I'll get into what that material is going to be uh the company is basically a dumpster supply company so the dumpsters will be provided in the in that rear area we have a substantially landscape um there should be another um
site plan this was the original plan um might be in a separate file from this no that's okay yeah go back to the other side plan um anyway so there's a stone area basically we're going to landscape
around that that yard uh that yard is going to be for the uh for the containers we have one uh offloading rolloff truck and uh 12 containers and one dump truck uh basically for removal
debris um nothing comes back to the yard with any material in it they only come back empty it's illegal for them to bring it back full of material um so basically the dumpsters go out to a site they stay out to the site and then when it's time when they're done using it they go out they pick up the dumpster
bring it to the uh uh Recycling yard or the uh County dump and dump it at that location and it comes back either either back here or to another site excuse me Mr Murphy I'm just sorry were you saying that this is not the correct site plan
yeah there there was another plan that was submitted um that this was the early Plan before we indicated where the yard location was but you should have a copy of the the plans set that you have the paper ones yeah that I believe they show
the yard up on the uh northeast corner of the parking lot yeah that's the only real difference between these two plans is that there's a stone yard in the uh northeast corner so the correct one is the one dated 5 2024 no it's uh 12
1924 yes yes thank you for the clarification revision dates on the top of the title block okay good yeah I just want to make sure that what the thewing is the correct s
thank you uh so we would fence and Landscape that stone yard uh the basically provide privacy and security for the yard um not that we're worried about someone stealing our our dumpsters but I think uh for safety sake that it's good to have the the fencing around it
as well um but the addition of the evergreen trees uh basically around it and again as Mr Alfieri indicated provided a we got a positive V tonight we would be back for a site plan that point we obviously we'd have a full landscape plan and a drainage plan uh
provided to the board um the hours of operation or daily from 7 to 4: uh currently there's one employee uh typically all work is done over the phone or Internet um as indicated we have one rolloff uh truck a dump truck and 12 containers uh sewer Waters by uh
septic and well um storm water will we will comply uh with regard to parking uh we're basically looking at this as an office use which would require one stall uh we're providing four at the location as one of them has to be handicapped um
and the signage will comply lighting will comply as well uh as well as trash with regard to the buffers uh to the there's buffers basically on the northeast and west side and along the frontage uh we will comply with those
buffers um the existing vegetation is going to remain as as what's out there currently which is the dark green that's on this plan uh but again we're going to supplement that around the the uh the uh gravel yard to
provide Evergreens um so that it it even more enhances the uh effect of uh hiding the uh the usage of of the site um access again is off that southwest corner uh the storage would only be the
containers um on by by the applicant um um and again we're only looking at a 720t building uh relatively minor in nature uh there's a couple of waivers uh obviously the only Outside Agency there are none it would only be you for this application when we come back for site
plan there'll be a number of outside agencies uh traffic report uh we would ask for a waiver uh because through the very dious uh nature of the application um current survey that the survey is from 2021 there's been no development
out on the site since then um pave storage area um I think I'd probably leave that for for the site plan um and the the other waiver is the access Drive uh there's a requirement for a 10-ft landscape strip um basically
on the sides of the property we wouldn't be able to provide that along right along this very uh Southwest portion only because we're literally right up against the buffer line uh for the conservation M so we don't have a choice
in in order to have access onto the site we'd have to impinge on that area um just for that section again this is a use variance uh to permit a contractor's office and Outdoor Storage in the PV Zone um we're looking at special reasons variance uh
under the PV Zone requirements uh the the permitted uses are a farm a single family home school and a church um the restrictions on this slot uh really don't lend themselves to those uses uh
since over 60% of the lot is consumed by the uh conservation buffer um and the limited access only out to uh route 571 uh there's not enough room for a church or a school for that matter um the
Farmland there's not enough area to really Farm because it's it's too small of an area um Singo family house as IND at the houses around us all go out to Lakehurst Road uh simply because it's a Less Traveled Road um and I think to try to build a house on this lot that's
sellable um on such a narrow Frontage and uh you know you're set back off the road but you really have no privacy either um and you would be coming out onto the uh 571 which obviously is a a relatively busy road um we're proposing
uh the proposed use provides an efficient use of the land uh 79% of the lot will remain open um the building coverage will only be 0.6% uh the perious coverage would be 12.5% again these are very nominal numbers for the size of the property uh
the scale of the of the building is is really dominous uh given the size of the building of only 700 Square fet uh when we look at the special variant special reasons variance we look at the Michi test um and Saddle Brook for support of adjustment judge Gilman noted there's
really three categories for special reasons one is an inherently beneficial use which we are not uh the other one is undo hardship uh would be uh entailed by trying to build what's permitted on the site uh our went through really the
challenges of trying to build what would be permitted on the site um and the last one is the site is particularly suited uh this site is is particularly suited uh the site's along a county road with easy access to the surrounding areaa which you want for commercial use uh
it's sufficient size for this particular type of use um because we don't need a very large area uh there are many commercial uh businesses along this Corridor uh you have a a um I always call it the minute man but basically a a
uh a convenience store up the road we have a metal shop we have a mechanic shop all along this Corridor um and obviously there's the souths side is basically blank um other than there's the school on the South Side as you go
further down the road um but the rest of it basically is all Conservation Area that that can't be built um and we have uh intermittent houses uh spread throughout this area as well um under the positive criteria we're looking at the the purpose of the ml well uh
providing adequate light air and open space as I indicated we're 79% uh open on the site uh to provide sufficient space and appropriate locations for commercial uses that this would defitely could you be a little less casual with your microphone I'm having trouble
hearing you sure I apologize um to promote a desirable visual environment again the dimin diminutive nature of the building uh isn't a a major impact on the property it's improving the property and also providing the additional
landscaping around the yard area so you wouldn't even see it um all the the the six foot fence all the all the uh containers are less than six feet high so you wouldn't even see the containers once they're in the yard um and obviously to encourage the efficient use
of the land which this does under the negative criteria the variants can be granted without sub substantial detriment to the public good um we look at really what the detriment would be and it's it's noise it's pollution um and traffic all these are dious uh you
know again we're looking at one employee truck coming in in and out delivering the the the trailers it's very low traffic uh usage uh for the site um as far as air pollution or or or the noise associated with the use again he's
comes in the morning pulls it out drops it off you have some that come back in the evening uh but it's not a daily thing where every container is coming back and forth some are out from or week some are out for a month they vary in time
um the site is designed to be uh efficient and obviously are well within the hours of of of typical normal usage uh it's my professional opinion that the benefits uh will outweigh any detriment associated with the application uh the variants will not substantially impair
the intent and purpose of the Zone plan uh the use is proposed to be low intensity in nature um both traffic and activity during the day hours uh the site is two 2.4 Acres where one acre is required so it's it's a large piece of property um but again well over half of
it is consumed by that that buffer um under the uh the project cons consistent with the master plan uh the exe executive summary dated 2009 of the master plan uh 3.0 uh as goals and objectives and I
quote the master plan contains the goals and objective statement the key goal is to work St towards a balanced Community while the housing stock is more balanced and meeting needs commercial and Industrial developments need to be expanded to meet the local demands also
under the goals and objectives statements uh Community Vision the community will uh with Industrial and Commercial development areas suited for diversity of Economic and employment opportunities under land use growth uh element uh to direct growth in areas
suited for Land Development to encourage the use of planning techniques that will that'll provide a desirable environment and to bring properties into to uh a rable tax base for the township which this will do as well um it's my
professional opinion that the project will not substantially impair the goals and objectives of the Zone plan or master plan uh but will in fact support those goals um I re I refed uh remon vernick's letter dated March 5th 2025 I agree with all the contents of the
letter um I believe I covered most of the comments also in in my testimony there was a couple comments that they asked that I put on the record record uh on page five item B5 uh the stoneyard would be adequate for the rolloff containers if we did uh
pavement they'd only get torn up by the containers and gouged uh so really the stone is kind of the best for that and it would only be for the yard um so that the rest of the the parking area would be paved uh it would only be basically where the rolloff containers would uh
would be dropped and stored uh page five item B6 uh no storage of material will be greater than 10 ft high as I indicated all the D dumpsters will actually be shorter than the than the 6ft fence that will surround it uh page5
item B7 equipment shall not be parked closer to the front property line than the front setback plus 50 feet so that comes to a total of 110 ft uh we comply with that the yard is actually 135 ft um off the
roadway uh page six item G uh they there was a question regarding that the center hallway was indicated as a waiting room it's not a waiting room it's just a center hallway to basically be an air braak uh Windbreak to go into the office in the bathroom um we don't have anyone
come to the site uh no CL clients come to the site it's it's purely phone and internet um usage um page six item J uh there's room for emergency vehicles that that pavement area that that's indica at is 42 by 80
uh which should be large enough for any vehicle to be able to move around in that area um page six item L uh buffers for lot five and 45 lot five is the lot that's to to our north um and lot 45 is the lot that's to
our East um both as I indicated we're going to have keep the buffers that are there we're going to enhance the buffers um around the what we're going to propose the develop and none of those houses are closer than 130 ft to the property line not not to
what we're building but actually to the property line so they're substantially uh set back from what we're proposing uh on the site uh I believe I covered that all the comments within uh Mr Peter's letter obviously if there's anything I missed
I'm sure Mr Peter will let me know that and um that's it any questions from Mr Murphy I have a couple sure um there going to be any maintenance on site no okay um
and the what are they hauling in these containers it's whatever they drop off at at the at the job sites so it might be construction debris um you know if you're if you're pulling up Roots they
they throw the roots in if if you're uh basically stripping sheetrock off an interior of the house and rebuilding it you use that um out on a construction site you know of a new house obviously usually have a dumpster things like that and and what are these um containers
going to be stored on on Stone on Stone yes is that is that the right way to do it with this stream that goes through this property well to Le down into so
the containers come back clean they're not allowed to bring anything back with material in it I understand that but they're filled with dust or asbest or or anything it rains these water runs out and it's
running on well anything with asbestos or anything like that has to be bagged um so it's it's not allowed to be just thrown into the dumpster um same you know so any any material like that has to be bagged and and contained um in
there so and the way the way it's Disturbed in your professional sure there is no risk of any contamination entering the ground from any of these containers I don't believe so only because but most with typically
it's construction material for the most part uh so there's usually not a lot of Hazards material other than the spus which has to be taken care of completely separately from this method because it has to be bag that supposed of properly
by liens and and lastly the um the lines with with the gation between you know this Corridor the stream Corridor sure um obviously you can't put in on no that so is there
going to be some type of marking that would prevent in the few years down the road from anybody uh putting containers or vehicles or anything sure I get what you're saying uh you know we we could do something where we basically put either like a PVC
Pole or something every 50 fet or something along along that so at least it's delineated so someone can't say I didn't know it was there um you know we've all seen things grow and and go in places they shouldn't be so yeah that's fine so you're confident that there
would be no leakage of anything bad going into the gra no because they're they're again they're coming back empty so so anything that that's really could be in there is you know maybe some dust material or something like that it's it's it's not going to be they they they
dump them completely so um when they come back and also that that's part of the purpose of the of that buffer to the stream is the buffer is meant to actually act as a filter to the stream okay thank sure any other
questions Mr Murphy um trying to understand the is this business currently operating yes okay uh how many containers do they use on a average basis monthly weekly they have
12 containers and the the duration varies some people need it for two days some people keep it for a month so it it it all varies um there's no set time on how some how long someone's going to rent it for okay I'm just trying to understand because you're asking you
know this is for 12 containers that means what happens when I mean hopefully business grows what's the plan then I mean you're coming out you you're GNA have one small office and you want to be able to put
you're saying 12 containers there get your capacity for more um yeah there happens for whatever reason you outgrow this and you move um what happens to this propt sure so so the there's room for 20 I
think about 22 containers depending on the size of the containers uh so there's room to grow uh it's it's a oneman show uh so right now anyway so um it's it's owner operated uh so it's it's it's not a large conglomerate that we're talking
about here um so it's uh he's just you know one man doing doing his his business so he's Manning the phone and driving the for the most part it's it's it's over you leave a message or you send the um internet and it's typically
cell phone it's not like he's sitting in an office what's the name of the business um that's a good question brother recy yeah brother recycling now is there going to be uh EV
parking no it's not no it's not required because it's under 25 stalls uh you mentioned a couple times the height of the dumpsters I know when I look at a construction site you see dumpster out there it looks pretty pretty tall
no yeah exactly yeah they're all under six foot the concrete ones and like lower but yeah yeah there there's some there's some that are roughly four four feet there's others they they would max out usually around five because you need to be able to put something into it so that
they don't not they're not going to make and no materials no nothing comes back to the C no it's illegal for them to do that Mr yeah I'm sorry Mr I you seem to be uh providing the testimony about
operations um what are the hours uh 7 to 4 daily Okay so so the last return would be at 4:00 correct and is is that uh seven days a week five days a week five days a week I'm sorry
five five Mr Martins yes um first I'd like to to get some clarification for this application so can I consider future use I think was a
similar question we know we have one employee now but you sell it the this certainly you the the request is for a variance from the board which would run with the land unless there were other
conditions put upon it okay so it runs with the land okay um so you can have growth or you sell it and now you have 20 20 people answering the phone there I'm I'm exaggerating but um potentially that could happen right because you have the space to be able to put 40
containers 50 no uh we have Spa we have space for about 25 containers total that's maximum and and we only have four parking stalls one of them is handicapped so okay there's only so if for any chance um future they
wanted to do more than 25 put more parking spaces they'd have to come here and get that approval they have to come here or find a different site at that point yeah okay all right thank you um one more question whe I can consider so you mentioned about um the benefit to
the public in increased uh property tax all all that kind can I consider that as as a benefit to to the public the fact that no that the the benefit I wasn't saying was a was taxes that that was one
of the purposes within um your your master plan that was within the element of the master plan okay um so the only thing that's going to sit there is the container itself right not not the truck that brought brought it in no how do I think
about that okay so so that that brings it in drops it off the truck leaves yeah B basically he's going back and forth picking up containers moving them bringing them where they need to be okay and then they come in empty so o leaking from the the trucks that's not a problem
back there the issue okay um me just okay um I think that's it thank you sure um the trucks that's picking up the dumpsters are they parked there
overnight or do they just pick up the D dumpster and then drop it off and then yeah B basically they they they get the the dumpster let's say starting off they get the dumpster from the yard they bring it to the job site drop it at the
job site however long it's going to be rented for whether it's a day a month uh then they come back they retrieve it they'll bring that then to the dump drop the the material that's in that then bring back the clean dumpster or a lot of times that dumpster winds up going
directly out to another site right so the truck that's hauling the dumpster does not belong the company I just want no no they and then they park there yeah the owner the owner is driving that truck okay and they park it at night there yes yeah in the parking lot not on
the stone gotcha yes could we have it stipulated in the resolu solution that the maximum number of dumpsters would be 25 and that they must be stored on the same type of stone
or whatever they're using uh if they if they increase the amount sure absolutely any other questions for Mr Murphy Mr Peters yes Mr Murphy doesn't want me to ask him
question so killed my microphone um thank you for your testimony um you've been past the site in the last few months yes um this site's located in the pin lands correct that is correct so an
application for development would need to be submitted to to Pine lands correct that's correct has one been submitted as it relates to the request for the use variants no okay explained to the board and
myself that whether or not Pinel lands has anything to do with the use of the property yes so they could if even if this board said yes you can do this use pin lands could say no they could sure
so the board understands that we're not the only approving Authority not just for the site plan which would be subsequent to this but for the use itself so can I interject probably like a d question but I'm sure some of you are thinking the
same thing then why wouldn't you have applied for that already it's I feel this is the bigger hurdle um so if if the board bigger than Pineland in it for this P portion of it think what he's trying to say nicely
without saying it us is why go through all that until you have this basic approval exactly so so my next comment or question would be will you come back to the assuming you're successful with the use variants will you be coming back
to the board for site plan before you get a response from Pinelands I cannot come back to the board until I get response from P so so provided I get I got the use variant I would have to go to piland's
get their approval of the of the site plan at least an inconsistent letter of in consistency uh before I could return to any other the other agencies you the county anybody so how many yours is
that yeah um right now uh I I'd say we're probably back to you in eight months months hopefully so faster than the County Road Department is what you're telling us yes yes at times so Mr Murphy the site
currently is cleared yes mostly paron mostly yes correct and some of it's grass some of it's Stone um and your testimony is that your client's going to put the dumpsters and
the vehicle that picks up the dumpsters in the area outside of the re re ired buffer yes and your suggestion as to how that buffer would be delineated because it's it's open it's clear and no disrespect to your client
or to the applicant's team but there's a vehicle that Picks Them Up out there right now and it's sitting in the middle of the buffer and there's a dumpster at the South End of the BM that's sitting in the middle of the buffer
so in the immortal words of Mr Hudak you're get going to need to prove to us that you're going to follow what you say you're going to do because quite frankly you came here tonight and said well there's Wetlands off site there's a buffer and we're not allowed to do anything in the buffer except you're already running the business in the
buffer correct fair enough yeah okay that's why I pointed out from the get-go that that road goes around the entire site right now and it has for years quite frankly my concern simply is is that this board has a responsibility to the rest of Jackson Township including
the zoning officer and the code enforcement officer to write a resolution that's easy to walk over to the person in the building and say you're on the wrong side of the line yep and there's nothing out there that stops them from doing it right now because the buffer is not delineated out in the
field to the best of my knowledge correct okay yeah so we would we would agree I mean we'll show it at site plan but we would agree basically every 50 feet we'll put a PBC poll along that line
that's a that's a great offer we may ask you to do something different like outside of the first 50 or 100 feet from the street to put a fence up something more permanent so that there's because all all we're doing is
setting ourselves up for an enforcement problem so unless you guys can convince us the board differently our recommendation is going to be there needs to be something more permanent along that that line lest a thousand
excuses come up as to why I got to stick one over on the other side and this board takes their responsibility seriously about creating something that can be followed out in the field by both the applicant and the municipal
officials and a split rail fence would suffice correct certainly could instead of just yes um we talked about buffers and while we're not doing site plan
um would you agree that at this point given the limited amount of information you've given us we can't make a determination as to whether or not the existing buffers for Lots I think it was five and 45 are sufficient or not correct it's going to be be something that we do at site
plan the applicant is not requesting nor is the board going to approve any relief from the buffer requirements this evening no you may have to come back and put up a 50ft perimeter buffer put up a BM put up a fence put up more trees whatever happens at site plan
you're not asking for relief from the buffer standards this evening no thank you as it relates to the containers themselves I apologize either to the applicant or to you guys if if I sound nitpicky but some of the board members
will remember these can the containers be stacked can they physically be stacked I'd have to ask the app okay would you agree to a condition that they cannot be stacked yes okay some board members may
remember we we heard an application someone was trying to turn shipping containers into livable spaces and they were on a site and then we went out to the job site all of us the week before before the meeting they had him stack three
High you didn't have to go on the site you see him almost from the street so I apologize sounds a little either nerdy or nitpicky we're not going to stack them we've all seen crazy things okay um you indicated you've used the phrase
a couple times that the dumpsters come back clean um and while I respect your engineering accur I have no idea what clean means um and I have a concern because when they're used for junk or for houses
it doesn't mean you can't get someone throws a thing at antifreeze someone throws a paint can in there so perhaps the other way you say they come back clean is whose standard of clean D Ocean County hazardous waste um
Jackson Township's ordinance I don't know what clean clean is but can we say that the in addition to clean that there will be no cleaning of the containers on this site that I I can say yes okay can I ask you a quick question about that very topic one of my
questions was going to be are they disinfect I'm piggy back thank you I was piggy back on Mr Hudak are they power washer they disinfected how are they cleaned I believe they're just dumped but I I'll clar I'll get clar clar clarity in a moment on that the reason
we unless all I think if we we said how many people have had a dumpster in front of their house yeah and so you know you put the drywall in there and then it rains and then you got to the thing's full of water so our concern is that if they're full of water in someone's driveway or at the transfer
station that's okay but you're going to put them on Stone which means when you put them on Stone whatever is in there goes right into the groundwater so I don't think that's an improper health or safety concern for the board to be considerate of sure um
I'm not sure if I heard you say this or not there will be no repairs of the dumpsters on site no maintenance of the trucks no maintenance of the truck yeah okay I'm not sure what would be repaired on the dumpster other than maybe a spring or something well no
unfortunately I know too much about dumpster so in order to maintain or fix a dumpster you need an arc welder M so I you need an arc welder you need to sit settling tanks settling tanks got to be stored somewhere so whether you or the applicant comes up and says what they're
going to do I think it's important to note what will or won't be done out there sure so I don't know if we have enough testimony with regards to what's going to be done with these containers on
site um Madam chair members of the board as it relates to the to Mr Murphy's testimony um the fact that there's a buffer is not this positive of well
what's left we can fit stuff on um it's in the PV Zone PV Zone has specific uses in it I think those uses need to be reconciled so whether we have direct testimony from Mr Murphy or the idea that they're going to before they come back for site plan get an approval from
Pine lands and if they don't get an approval from Pine lands they won't come back at all um but I think there has to be some recognition that the site is zoned Pinelands Village there are limited uses there are
low intensity uses um there are uses that quite frankly aren't practical anymore I think you can do resource extraction in the Pinelands Village Zone which may not be applicable to this but I think we need to sort of reconcile we said well there's a couple of single
family houses and there's a 50 mph County Road out front I'm not sure if we've reconciled the zone so to speak but for now I think I've offered enough comments from the board um when Mr Murphy returns over
here is there uh anyone from the public that would like to ask Mr Murphy a question right he'll be back in a second he seems confing someone he's coming back Mr Murphy there are some members of the public who would have questions for you but I don't know
if you wanted to supplement your testimony before that happens yeah I'll probably supplement it first so so the regarding the cleaning basically the way that as I thought that dumpsters are basically just dumped at the trash Recycling yard and broom swapped and
that that's the limit of cleaning um and as far as uh maintenance wise you know on the dumpsters his dumpsters are new he doesn't own any welding material he's not play on welding him if he has an issue he'll bring them to the shop and get them welded so how do we
Rec how do we reconcile the what Mr the point that Mr Hudak brought up or Mr Peters himself as well P freeze any type of a liquid any type of chemical is dumped in there how we I mean I understand what you're saying I get it
if we're dumping it's going to be dumped it's going to be swept but how is that making sure that something's not seeping through well it's it's a metal container so basically they they dump it out is everything possible going to be gone out of there I can't say that you know
obviously there may be some residue in a container when it's all done uh I think it's impossible to get completely clean in in that way uh it's not just not the nature of containers um in that way but we will not be cleaning them on site that's for
sure before we have the members of the public come up any other questions for Mr Murphy we're going to open this to the public anyone wishing to come forward please do so at this time you've been paying attention could you uh swear that the uh testimony you will
give to this board will be the truth and nothing but the truth yes and will you give your name and address for the record please Gilbert haris 782 Lakers Avenue thank you and I know you were here before so this portion is just to ask uh Mr Murphy any questions based on
his testimony there will be a period for General comment before we close tonight okay Mr Murphy yes sir the right hand side of that property is my property that light line that's drawn there is supposed to be an
easement see little light line dark light do you have a pointy thing that would be the line going here what is theas uh it's actually off to the right side um it's hard to see on this plan but it does show up on our survey it's
right in this area and it it goes down there's a an inlet uh in right right here yes the cor well that's that's what the buffer is measur measured off of that that stream Corridor that's on your
property yeah it's part of a stream Corridor yeah yes sir sir I'm sorry could you go back to the microphone yes why is your client dumping waste
along that line I don't know that my client is dumping waste along that Cent come by and take a look again I there may be waste there I don't know if it's him or people driving by that I don't know there was no waste here that whole line has a dirt Line St
this high right down that line and he also started putting containers along that line that you said we were going to be on the other side well that that's kind of Mr Peter's point is that we want to delineate and clean up the site so that
we know exactly where he's allowed to go cleaning up that site has nothing to do with my grandchildren my neighbor's new baby and whatnot with whatever has this waste that might come out of those containers and it's a residential area sure you
want to put a church up there put the church up there like to say you want to do a farm sir remember I said this is the time to ask Mr Murphy questions you'll be able to make your general comments in a bit Mr Murphy you should come and take a look at the
property I spent a lot of time a lot of money my wife and I improving that property come take a look at it that's like that's the question I have to ask you and we go from that
point on neigh thank you sir thank you sir the hours start at 6:00 in the morning not 7 the clinging is there from the containers thank you sir Mr uh who that um someone from the zoning department
can have you gone out and looked at this property can that can an inspection take place to see if this is actually true I think that'd be a good idea but just to that would there out of that inspection will there be some kind
of report that we get to see what findings you have I just want to make sure that I can review something that's what I yeah just want and if a report looks okay no official something yeah thanks and that report would obviously
be provided to the uh applicant as well excuse me I I I think you had a question could you raise your right hand pleas do you swear that the testimony you'll give this board it'll be the truth and nothing but the truth yes and please state your name and address
Thomas Maxfield 7 before Lakers sta um so just looking at the meeting minutes this is a application for a septic disposal field um will any septic be disposed on this lot like septic
waste yes there's a septic disposal field there would would be for the office use so just like flushing the toilets that's the only that's the only thing that would be going into that subject now you mentioned the having a
had capacity of about 22 uh units you said yes now if those units are stackable will that double the capacity or we've indicated we will not stack them okay that would be part in the resolution that's the resolution okay um
and I do live uh two houses down from this and I do see the waste that is there now and it has not gone away at all it is a continuing issue so I think some kind of inspection does need to be done I'm sorry I'm not sure if the rest of the board could hear that I couldn't
hear there is some kind of waste that is dumped at the lot now so some kind of inspection should be done on this yes and as you heard there were the board had already requested that zoning go out to make that inspection okay I think that's
it oh yeah we've had issues with dumping out on the site okay thank you thank you thank you is there anyone else wishing to come forward and ask questions of Mr Murphy seeing no one else oh wait oh there's a there's a baby coming up
to to switch do you swear that the testimony we give this boot board is the truth and nothing but the truth yes and please state your name and address it's Tony Maxfield 784 lak forab um we are new homeowners uh we just purchased 202 we
live on a beautiful two acre lot um it's just a house over 2500 square feet um we bought it because of the land uh and to build a family as you can see um I hate doing this and I hate
having my daughter out at 10 o'clock at night but it means a lot for me to be here and voed by opinion um I'm just concerned with the I'm sorry I just just I have to be consistent this is right now this exact second is just if you have questions for Mr Mur Fe you'll be able to come up yep I'm getting to it
okay so sorry it's okay I'm nervous and this is not my thing so put me back home with my chickens and my bread um I just have a question about the shipping containers you said as of right now there's no really cleaning process um for the materials that are going to be left over is there some sort of cleaning
process that you can um establish they basically when they like has it ever been looked into to do something like that no when they go when they go to the dump basically they they dump the material and it's and it's brush cleaned okay that's the extent of
of of the cleaning of the of the containers um and we're we've said on the record we're not going to hose them down or clean them at the site okay um because I think that wouldn't be a good idea okay and that's all I'm allowed to ask right nothing else right yes but
it's my anticipation is it won't be too far in the future okay thank you thank you anyone else wish should come forward and ask any questions Mr Murphy seeing no one else come forward I'm going to close the public session
for questions Mr alfir you have a closing statement or anything um we we rest um but I I'll just state that uh if we if the board does ACT favorably tonight with the application again as Mr Peters and Mr Murphy stated we do have to go to the piland commission get their
approval before we do come back again for site plan approval um there will be we did agree to sub ulations with regards to the site itself um which I think addresses some of the concerns raised by your professionals as well as the applicant or the uh The Neighbors in
the area we do request that you act favor with tonight thank you can yes so are the the containers ever cleaned do they clean it once a year once every three months like
I just so it gets dumped they're not gonna hose it on site so is it not clean until it deteriorates well B based what happens it comes up on an angle right and they usually shake it for lack of a better
word and the material comes out the dust comes out everything else and then it's it's just broom swept and that's it and there's no other way of cleaning I I don't know exactly if that can they be cleaned I mean at the facilities that they where where you dump they they
don't have spray down or anything like that I don't think we'd want to spray them down right no but I'm just asking CU I I don't know anything about these containers do your do they ever be clean in their in lifetime no okay no there a
short answer okay yeah thank you yeah can can I just feed off with some of that sure so I I think as we said here we we all had dumpsters in front of in front of our home before right um and even just seeing them
Drive even when they're empty they're leaking stuff right I mean somebody threw antifreeze in there A lot of times it's it's water more than anything else but you know when you say you dump everything doesn't come out we know especially liquid not saying it does it
I guess that's the normal procedure but it kind of just drives me crazy that there is no watering down at any point NOP okay cuz then you get the next round a little concerned we know it it drips we see it yeah when it goes through the
road um okay and then just one clarification so is there just one truck that moves them in and out or a bunch of trucks just one truck just one okay all right um that's it thank
you excuse me thank you any additional questions we're going to go ahead and go ahead and open this to the public if You' like to come forward and make any comments at this time it doesn't necessar they have to be questioning Mr Murphy you can make any comments you have sir I'm just going to ask you to
state your name again and remind you that you're still under oath yes Gilbert Harris okay I see no tax value in what they're trying to present in a residential area I just see destruction
because like you said those containers do leak they don't get everything out of them and they're they're not clean every year they're never clean and like he said you tilt it up you shake it and they don't usually
Shake all the stuff out of it and if it's sitting out there and it's raining it's going into the ground and people have well water around there like I got a pond in the back that the deer come and drink out of
and I don't mind them coming and drinking out of it but I don't want to kill them with something that comes out of those containers and we don't need I go I go to the Ocean County dumps to pick up MCH and you to see seagulls
and everything running around here we I don't know they might have more rats rodents than anything and I don't know what's going into those containers and never will know and I don't want that same thing around my property around my grandkids
and I know my neighbor definitely don't want him around his new baby and that that's all I have to say thank you sir anyone else wishing to come forward seeing no one else come forward we're going to go ahead and close public
session boed for a discussion Madam chair just couple sorry Mark if I can please have a couple follow-up questions y u Mr Murphy can you just please describe exactly how the dumpsters are picked up and rolled off at the site or here at the site uh
the maneuverability of the trucks and how they actually come off the trucks sure uh basically there's a tongue that comes down off the back of the truck it's it's made specifically for this uh basically they they hooked a truck hook the the dumpster and then basically pull it up onto the back of the truck and
then the truck goes back down level and off it goes now there's been a lot of comments and concern about leakage would the applicant be open to installing some type of impervious surface for the
dumpsters and certainly we could we're looking for use variant so that's a requirement of the board we'd have to certainly the thought would be to prevent any any type of polluted water from infiltrating in the ground could be contained and cleaned on site if there is any
spillage um that I believe that could address the board's concerns Mr RAR what would you recommend it could be a concrete pad with a a small barrier to uh capture and any runoff and then that runoff can be
cleaned up before leaving that area mam chair yes so I'm going to throw my expertise in here I have 30 years I'm a union carpenter I am a vice president of a commercial construction company so for
30 years I've been dealing with 30 yard containers and I've seen everything from Health Care Hospital waste to paint to anything that people could throw into these containers when they have the opportunity to
especially at hospitals and job sites people so I do uh appreciate Mr Harris's concerns and these guys concerns as far as what's actually in these containers I do understand how they're cleaned they're
brought they're tipped over when they're done they roll off they go um I don't see how a container of this size can be rolled off into rocks or stone without the stone just constantly being shifted and moved it's
not a a pliable surface you know what I'm saying I mean these are on those metal wheels so the second they come down every piece of liquid and everything that was just in that 30 yard dumpster is coming along with it and
it's going right into the dirt because the Stone's not going to hold it so in light of what our Engineers were saying maybe a catch Basin or something I mean there's a lot of concerns I'm hearing I'm hearing since
it sounds like even to what Mr Hudak was saying how nothing is ever going to be brought back to the yard yet it sounds and just going by what I'm hearing sounds like there's already stuff there that's been dumped whether it was done
previous but it's there sure so there there's just a lot of things up in the air it's also sounds like it's an exposed yard so who's to stop anyone from driving by I live over in cooksbridge I'm the president of the community over there I have more cars
and people come with their trash to dump it in our community because we have dumpsters and I'll go outside I'll go hey how you doing what unit are you and they're oh what and I go right move it along and they're there to dump we've
had issues of dumping on the property for sure so what's stopping every Tom Dick and Harry driving past this place and going 20 30 yard containers I'm going to dump my construction material in there and who knows what's in there paint so now when
their truck goes to pick this up and it's been sitting there with rain and everything washes out these poor people's yards and everything so that's why we're going to fence the yard in so no one can do that okay I just think
there needs to be a step forward to just protect the the land sure I mean we can certainly do if the board's if it's the board's pleasure we can do the recommendation of doing a concrete pad underneath that uh for the for the rolloffs and basically have a have a curb around that so it would
catch anything that and have the opportunity to clean it if there anything does leak out of it and that would be part of the resolution that no container would ever be parked or rolled off on gravel would
always be on impervious surface yes as you remember this is a bifurcated uh application but these issues that are being raised by the board and having to do with the possible leakage of material go to the use and uh whether the board would
consider that uh to meet the criteria so that's perfectly appropriate as a condition I do have some serious concerns about the existing conditions and I'm not prepared to vote on anything without an inspection and a
full report given to this board Mr this is a very sensitive area and it's part of the Pinelands and we have a lot of
insensitive areas there yes so my con I have a couple of concerns that was of my concerns given the information that's been put on the record and I understand Mr Murphy that The Dumping may not be understand we're not saying it's your client we're
stating there's some type of dumping there we need to get a handle on what's going on out there um things are already been done in the buffer yes I understand you need a variance to get it right but if you were aware of the buffer I'm a little concerned as to why it was being done at all just my um the other thing I'm and I'm thank
you for your expertise on these dumpsters because I have a lot of construction going on around me and I have like three or four four houses that have dumpsters and one sticks out in particular that and my husband is called the town because when they came to dump it just as you described it when they lifted it up all the stuff came flying
and it may have been water from rain I can't say it wasn't but my concern when he said that was what washed out with it I don't know I don't know what was in that dumpster I don't know where it was before so what rolled out with it was my question so I love Mr R's suggestion I
think that's a great idea and I think that this should get to the point that we vote and do approve it and I I say if that should definitely be a condition um I agree with Mr Hudak I think we really need to take the environment into con into consideration here I understand why
you didn't go to the Pine lands first um but without an inspection I too am not really prepared to vote on this to be honest with you I think I feel I I I need some more information as to what exactly is going on what needs to be done how do we say
yes you can do a and c and not know what's done already and that again you can all please feel free to feel differently this is just how I'm feeling Fury are uh in light of the comments of the board it would be
appropriate if you would age to an adjournment or not adjournment to to carry this matter for a Time sufficient to get there on one second oh I'm sorry for in a residential area he would at least clean up his sight before he came here
which shows that the person who is going to be there for many many years doesn't care about the neighborhood and second I just wonder how compatiable something like this is with the neighborhood itself and as of now I I can't see
voting to approve this and hopefully we get a better report when when they do come back Mr Al Fury um we have no objection to carrying the application okay so then we're going to carry it and given the time frames that we've been given um
that should certainly be sufficient time for a report on the conditions at the site um and I can't even remember remember what the June 4th okay so this this matter will be
carried till June 4th there'll be no additional notice so and I'm looking specifically at the members of the community that were here um at before that time it's expected that that report on the current site conditions will be
um done by the zoning department and provided to the board does June 4th work June 4th works okay thank you thank you so members of the public as Miss ciani just stated you you won't get any additional notes but we'll be rehearing not rehearing but we'll be
hearing additional testimony June 4th thank you thank you madam chair members of the board for your time tonight thank you motion to adjourn motion there you go I don't know if you could tell who