##VIDEO ID:KPuDvxDQr0E## e e e e e e e e e e e e e e e e e e e e e since I pledge alance to the flag of the United States of America and to the Republic for which it stands one nation under God indivisible with liberty and justice for all good evening ladies and gentlemen pursuant to njsa 10 colon 4 the open public meetings act notice of this duly and regularly scheduled meeting of the Jackson Township Zoning Board of adjustment has been published and posted in all appropriate locations roll call please Mr Heyman here Dr hofstein here Mr Hudak Miss fares here miss Rosal Mr Martins here Mr Stafford Smith here miss Bradley here do we have any resolutions this evening we do have resolutions this evening we have two resolutions this evening first resolution [Music] 2024-25 Brewers Bridge Road Block 13301 Lot 19 um eligible to vote Mr Hudak Miss Bradley Dr Dr hoffstein Mr Heyman Miss Parnes Mr Safford Smith need a motion it's the resolution marking the last chance adjournment on Rosen Bloom okay thank you roll call Mr Heyman yes Dr hofstein yes Mr Hudak yes Miss bares yes Mr Stafford Smith yes Miss Bradley yes yes second resolution for consideration this evening resolution 202 24-55 the resolution granting preliminary and final site plan approval with use variance on property located at West Commodore Boulevard and leming road block 2508 Lots 6 and 7 eligible on this particular application moment Dr hoffstein chairwoman Bradley Mr Heyman Mr Hudak Miss Parnes and Mr Stafford Smith make a motion to approve have a motion second roll call please Mr Heyman I don't think I was here am I correct that meeting for West Commodore the only one I have not eligible is Mr Marton correct Ana truck parts you were here oh yes cor yes Dr offstein Mr Hudak Miss Parnes yes Mr Stafford Smith yes Miss Bradley yes that's all for the resolution concludes resolutions this evening Madam chair thank you uh no minutes this evening but I do have a voucher uh for tonight's meeting for the acting recording secretary uh in the amount of $175 I need a motion and a second to pay the voucher please motion second roll call please Mr Heyman yes Dr hsky Mr Hudak Miss Parnes yes M Ro I'm sorry she's absent Mr Martin yes Mr Stafford Smith yes Miss Bradley yes do we have any announcements this evening Mr Murphy uh we do have one announcement that will most likely be subject to the board's deliberation here application number one um Israel burn bound Muse variant 3490 block 14001 lot n that application has requested to be carried um it's previously been carried uh March 6th May 1st and August 7th um to tonight's meeting on August 7th uh they've requested to be carried to the January 15 2025 meeting I will note for the record Miss Jennings did have a conflict um in Woodbridge she did have three applications listed and did provide a copy of that to Dawn to show that she did have the conflict and would not be able to attend based upon her conflict uh in before the Woodbridge Board um however I do know that the board is particularly concerned about this application so I figured that there that the board may wish to have a discussion on this on the record prior to me car oh and the applicant has wave time any comments questions concerns yeah through the chair Mr Hudak brought up a very poignant set of circumstances last month or last meeting whereas when we were constantly rescheduling things we were also delaying other applications and there are things that happen I understand that but there becomes a point in time where it's a bit obsessive and there are other members of this attorney's firm that could have represented this so I think it may be appropriate to install some type of provision or notify that this is you know your this is your last chance just want to comment yes um I think that one thing that we may want to look at is um this application that we actually have on the next application for tonight was pulled from the agenda for the past year and a half two years so I think instead of I think maybe we should use a going forward if something is carried three times we should have them pull it rather than keep postponing it it should be like a standard that we have I I I don't think that this is you know case particular like we had in the last time with the Rosen Bloom one and we're having this one again I think that when this comes up that they keep postponing I think that it should be pull and then they'll have to Ren notice when they want to come back instead of constantly I'm not specific for this application or any other I think it should just be our general approach to this concept through the chair I I I think that this has been postponed almost a year now and the attorney with the applicant is very happy pushing it down three months at a time and I think we should concern ourselves with each application separately because sometimes there are good reasons why something can't be heard but this one seems to be to delay and delay and delay and we disturb is that the building or the structure is unsafe anybody who looks at it sees it's unsafe and we don't know if it's being used if it's being used by people I don't are these people waiting for a tragedy or not so I think we ought ought to put a limit on that she must show up for the next meeting and give her the same warning we gave the last person that went through this that uh they go back to beginning whatever that means in the meantime hopefully the uh our enforcement agency can make sure that it's not being used out of our hands but hopefully they can do something Mr Hudak I agree microphone I'm sorry I agree with Mr that we should make up a rule that's in effect for everyone and that we shouldn't be selective about it and this is the rule you get uh you get three chances and on the fourth swing you're out um I think that's I think that's more than fair and that should be across the board for all applications Madam chair um I have a question procedurally what was the nature of what went down on this um tonco developers application that it was it wasn't you know carried carried carried it was rather was it fully withdrawn or was it just We'll advise we'll let you know when we want to reschedule it was not to to the best of my recollection it was not withdrawn it was simply put on hold and which is true for uh and I don't and I apologize off the top of my head I don't recall the name of the application um uh however um there's another application that we have where we're currently also on hold and the rose and Bloom application is was not put on hold it was continuously carried no I mean now this resolution was um basically dismissed without prejudice whatever ter uh in the event that they do not appear for the next meeting it would be administratively withd withdrawn but not on hold correct correct so I mean I I think what Mr Heyman suggested is interesting but I'm just trying to understand like this was the applicant in the rockco Developers application the applicant requested that this be put on hold correct based upon certain issues and plans and these other applications they're not requesting that I guess I'm just trying to think through like how do you make a rule saying like you must request that this be put on hold I I I think that there's some legality uh to to the rule that's being suggested that is not being considered um I think that's more of an appropriate discussion for executive session which happens to be um upcoming shortly and and certainly there were some items which uh number one this was on that list um I think it's more an appropriate discussion for executive session rather than on the Das at the moment um because there are certain legalities that we want to make sure that we're taking into consideration here um but again uh you know there there there certainly things that can be done and as as I uh indicated on the record last time um you did have the option to to note this is the last chance adjournment uh with a with a warning to the applicant um we did provide that warning and memorialize the resolution uh you know and a similar outcome here would be appropriate if that were what the board determined um because I know that the board was upset about it being carried the last time that it was carried here we are again so I guess I still have questions I guess those questions will be answered I'll save the majority of my comments for executive session I just wanted to point out I I just think it's odd and this is no disrespect to Miss Jennings let me be clear I just think it's odd that it was not handled until not addressed until today if you had conflicts because you had three cases on the docket in Woodbridge I understand it happens that's okay M Madam chair that's not quite the representation uh that was when I was able to alert the board when I got final confirmation of everything but it was addressed prior okay um so I I don't want to make that representation sorry about that um that's that's okay that's okay all right so we'll save the rest um we'll keep that for executive session and then make some decisions on how to move forward yes correct I mean again you can make that motion uh similar motion that we made last time no I I don't believe I heard a motion discussion no just discussion we're having discussion I mean I'm not opposed at all to to the suggestion um I it again we end up in situations where it drags on and drags on and drags on in this case in particular it's troubling because again the structure although it's not as a zoning board we are not enforcement I'd like to make a comment on the record let's hold off on clarifying the structure as unsafe um until we hear from the applicant okay all righte right yes so I I wanted to respond also um well I I would just kindly uh or nicely dis agree with Mr Hof's comments about the structure being safe or unsafe I don't think that that is goes under our purview um the intent of this discussion really is a general practice uh of this board uh schedule for scheduling purposes to be able to have other applicants you know seen um at an earlier date and not constantly have you know rescheduling here I don't think that that even comes into consideration when we Del breath nor should it thank you Mr H just to clarify that we don't use it safe or unsafe structure was put up and built without asking for varies which it needs so either it is safe or it's not safe does not matter it's there and it shouldn't be right we know it's not permitted correct correct all right um so we need to swear on the professionals are we not doing anything with this application I thought we're going to continue the conversations in the executive or I not understanding okay uh that's fine we can we can delay a Del we can delay for now we'll we we would move on to application number two um while we wait and decide what we're going to do at number one reopen announcements at a later time okay um thought we did agree that at least one more time I I agree and then the executive session is when we'll discuss not this specific application but overall what's going to be our rules nothing to do with this specific appliation correct so if the board is is okay with that I'll at least announce that number one has been carried um till June June I wish uh January 15th I wish January 15 2025 meeting of the Jackson Township Zoning Board of adjustment no additional notice shall be required at this time the applicant has wave time uh again this will be listed for January 15 uh 2025 if the board determines to reopen this uh announcement uh at a later point in the meeting that then then we we can entertain that type of motion um but for now we'll carry it on the record I can swear in the professionals and then I know that uh Madam chair you had asked for executive session and I had wanted it as well um so we'll we'll go through that okay so so that will be the announce that's the Public Announcement as to number one for for now uh mam chair I will swear and the professionals if you would be so kind uh ladies and gentlemen would you raise your right hand do you solemnly swear or affirm that the testimony information questions or comments that you're about to present before the board will represent the truth the whole truth and nothing but the truth yes yes if you would each please state your name and your positions with board Evan Hill Board engineer Ernie Peters board planner Gina Tumalo assistant zoning officer thank you very much executive session Mr Murphy Madam chair if you would be so kind I'd like to articulate a resolution for exe to enter executive session based upon uh your direction I will need a member to vote uh to uh U make a motion to approve and adopt the resolution a second and roll call following those motions whereas the zoning of the township of Jackson is subject to certain requirements of the open public meetings Act njsa 10 colon 4 whereas the open public meetings Act njsa 10 4-12 provides that an executive session not open to the public may be held for certain specified purposes when authorized by resolution whereas it is necessary for the Zoning Board of the township of Jackson to discuss in a session not open to the public matters relating to the item or items authorized by njsa 10 4-12 B and this evening those matters being twofold first with the professionals uh items subject to a client uh to attorney client privilege which included matters as to decisions upon procedure before this board and secondly without the uh without the professionals matters related to personnel and board contracts now therefore be it resolved by the by the zoning Board of the township of Jackson to enter executive session for discussion of those outlined matters it is anticipated anticipated that the deliberations can conducted inclose session may be disclosed to the public upon determination that public interests will no longer be served by such confidentiality and as requested if there's a member who'd like to make the motion uh I would appreciate that second and we'll need a roll call Mr Heyman yes Dr hofstein yes Mr Hudak yes Miss bares Mr Martins yes Mr Stafford Smith yes Miss Bradley yeah Excuse me yes so the board's going to enter executive session now I'm not going to make any representations about the time frames considering there are certain items that we want to discuss related to uh procedure going forward um and then the uh board has also requested uh um time to discuss without the professionals um certain Personnel items so um we'll be back um while the professional MO back halfway through e e e e e e e e e e e e e e e e e e e e e e e e e e e e e e e e e e e e e e e e e e e e e e e e e e e e e e e e e e e e e e e e e e e e e e e e e e e e e e e e e e e e e e e e e e e e e e e e e e e e e e e e e e e e e e e e e e e e e e e e e e e e e e e e e e e e e e e back to order back to order sorry motion roll call please Mr Heyman yes Dr hofstein Mr Hudak Miss Barnes yes Mr Martins yes Mr Safford Smith yes Miss Bradley yes so first before we begin let me apologize for the length of that executive session I apologize to the public as well and uh we can go ahead and get moving application number two um where's my thank you Ronco uh developers Inc Varian 3416 block 2506 Lot 21 Paul can you use the microphone please thanks oh wait testing okay just for the purposes of the record I did want to indicate that the majority of the board members um myself included were not on the board um at the time that this application was heard back in October of 2022 uh with that being said each board member um including Miss Bradley who was the sole board member who was on the board at the time um has certified um and has uh watched the uh prior presentation uh and uh the commentary by the public um and everybody here has signed a certification to that fact so everybody here is eligible on this application I just wanted to get on the record okay well we were here I was just checking the date back in October of 2022 and the the real reason for the delay is that it was determined at that uh hearing that the uh septic system for the neighbors's property was on this property so it took us uh a long time to be able to get the proper uh approvals and permits and we move the old existing uh septic system so uh right now it's been removed it's the uh removal has been approved by Ocean County uh Health Department so now we're here today to to proceed with h with our application uh basically is a a bulk variance uh case there's two variances that we're we're requesting uh the the actual square footage of the lot is 19,500 because of the dedication of part of the pro property as a right away 2250 Square ft was was used for the dedication so the actual uh square footage of the lot is 17,250 where 20,000 square feet is required also the minimum lot depth is supposed to be 200 and we have 115 uh so with that we'll have our first witness Graham McFarland just for just gram before I swear in uh just for the purpose of record there was also a discussion as to merger um and I did have an opportunity to review a title uh search that was provided by uh the applicant here um quite frankly these partials never merged um and while they're uh to me it does not appear that they were um under common ownership would that be a fair representation Mr miral correct okay all right um so I don't an issue as to merger as was raised at the time of the last hearing by um by judge Hurley um and I think that the applicant can proceed at this time um without concern for the merger issue G sorry Grim do you Solly swear affirm that the uh testimony information questions or comments that you're about to present before the board will represent the truth the whole truth and nothing but the truth I do uh if you please state your name um provide your affiliation and your credentials sure it's Graham McFarland professional engineer professional planner uh previously qualified testified before this board many many times this board accept you've been in front of us many times than thank you um CS this application is a is a continuation of a prior hearing from uh 2022 just about just about two years ago and there are some some new faces but you've all read the read or or or listened to the to the transcripts but just to go through some of the uh facts of the application quickly again just to bring it back up to speed you can see that we have A1 up on the uh screen which is an aerial showing the subject location you can see the property outlined in the uh in in the green located on um indiero Road uh indiero road is off of uh off of West West commodor you can see the the property located on the east side of of indiero Road uh this this property is in the R20 Zone uh the the existing lot area is about 19,500 as Mr Mir Mirabelli stated this application also includes a a RightWay dedication along the front edge to bring the RightWay along the property in accordance with uh Municipal standards creating a 25 foot uh 25 foot RightWay halfwidth so the resulting lot area uh as as a result of this application is 17,250 square ft of course that's below the uh below the uh 20,000 square foot lot lot minimum uh this application would would apply for um or or would be qualified as a an isolated undersized lot uh have have to meet the uh the test and appr proofs of the of the down meire case I know that there has been uh Buy sell letters sent to to the uh adjoining neighboring properties and I know that there there hasn't been any response received from any of those right right Paul that's correct right so there's been no no offer to buy or purchase from any of the adjoining uh adjoining land owners at at at at this time uh the other application required for this or the I'm sorry the other variance required for this application is of lot lot depth the existing lot depth is 130 ft so that already does not conform to the uh requirement of 200 feet so that is an existing non-conformance under the current condition uh but again that is impacted by the uh by the RightWay dedication so the resulting lot depth would be 115 ft and that variant is is is the only other variants uh requested for this application Anthony if you could just go to um go to the architectural plans for me real quick I believe they're A3 and A4 uh that one is I think that's A4 which is the uh the elevations so that shows the uh the house to be constructed a two-story house colonial style architecture um again just showing a two-story house with his with a single car garage A3 is the floor plans for the house which shows the uh the first floor the second floor and the basement that are proposed uh the house has a living area of uh just a just a touch over 2,000 square feet four-bedroom house proposed with a uh with a basement and a and a onecar garage the footprint of the house is about 43 by 32 so by uh by today's standards I consider I would consider a modes size home uh certainly in character with the development pattern in the neighborhood and not not out of uh not out of context at all and that is um you know that's the other other prong of a Down meire case is if the proposed application meets the character of the neighborhood and doesn't cause any negative impact to the neighborhood and I believe that this application satisfies uh satisfies that criteria area as well Anthony just go to A5 for me please A5 is the variance plan that we have submitted in support of the application uh this is a plan that was revised November 12th of 2024 uh it it shows the um you can see the location of of what was the the the existing septic system that was the subject of a lot of the discussion initially was right in this area uh that septic system actually served the house next door on lot lot 20 uh my client did obtain a permit from the Ocean County Health Department to abandon that septic system that work has been completed so that se septic system no longer sits on on this property so that uh situation has has has been rectified uh again you can see on here the application is to construct one single family home with a uh with a driveway coming out to uh coming out out to indiero Road a new septic system would be constructed for the new house in accordance with Ocean County Health Department and uh statutory um statutory regulations uh for this application we are not currently proposing curban sidewalk to uh to be constructed Jackson ordinance is very clear that uh applicants have two choices they can build curban sidewalk or they can pay to The Pedestrian safety fund on a street such as this where uh it is a roro street in character uh I think there there's curb there's curb along a handful of uh of lots but but generally this um this this pattern the street does not have Curb or sidewalk along along the um along the existing homes um that are that are currently there um I know the board board members have have different opinions on whether curban sidewalk should be uh should be provided again ordinance very clearly requires either installation or payment to the to The Pedestrian safety fund so we're just going to defer to whatever the pleasure of the board is on on the curban sidewalk if the board would prefer to see it we'll be happy to put it in if the board does not think it uh makes sense to put it in we'll make the contribution to the uh to The Pedestrian safety fund going to the uh review letters from the two profession starting with Mr Peter's letter letter first dated November 26th he uh discusses the application he uh provides a table that outlines conformance to the bulk requirements that identifies the two variants that are requested for lot area and lot depth and of course we agree with his uh his findings there uh Mr Peters points out a uh comment about um about the Improvement of indiia Road along this street Frontage and references ordinance 244-1519 that particular ordinance section requires a pavement width of 24 ft the existing pavement width along the front of this property is about 22 A2 fet I've also taken a look at uh how this would conform to rsis requirements uh by RSI standard this particular Street would meet the definition of a Rural Street which is only required to have a 20ft cartway so the road as improved does meet rsis standards for for a uh for a development or a neighborhood of this of this character uh it does not meet the local ordinance standard of that semi-improved road uh which again is is requiring a 24t wide cartway uh I can certainly see Arguments for both sides of that whether uh the whether the board is Justified in asking for the applicant to improve this road to uh to 24 ft to comply with local ordinance but I can also see an argument that says well RSI is supposed to dictate uh the nature and type of improvements for any application involving a residential project so one can make an argument that well this road is wider than 20 feet and it meets the Rural Street classification so I think um frankly the Board needs to have some discussion on that particular topic and see where where we think the application uh application Falls in regards to that uh you know the road along the along the site Frontage uh Mr Peters just just make some other General comments about the project he just asked us to confirm the the driveway garage combination uh and you can see on this plan that we have a onecar garage proposed we have a driveway proposed that is 18 ft and 33 feet deep from the uh from the RightWay line so that driveway would provide for two off street parking space is the garage provides for one parking space so three parking spaces uh provided rsis tells us we have to provide two and a half parking spaces for a four-bedroom home so this that is compliant with rsi's uh requirements um I that summarizes my discussion of Mr Peter's report and uh Mr Hill had a report that was dated October of 2022 when we uh submitt these revised plans we did go through Mr Hill's letter and I tried to address those comments we did add some additional information that these plan some details we did it we had uh conducted the test pit to confirm the elevation of seasonal high water table uh the grading plan was adjusted to reflect that and uh we don't take any exception to any of Mr Hill's other comments so that summarizes my uh my direct testimony so I just want to clarify um Mr McFarland the only two variances you're actually seeking in relation to this application of the minimum lot area and the minimum lot depth is that correct correct thank you chair if I may drin Mr McAllen uh part of Mr Hill's report he uh requested that the proposed setic System since uh the lot is undiz have advanced treatment units get a comment on that correct I know that's been a that's been a standard of the board and I think we're going to have to abide by that recommendation okay so you will put an advance system yes thank Mr Mr hman so I just wanted to address the um the road widening um I did go out to the site to check it out um I went from West commodor and I turned on to the Block it's very very very narrow when you first pull in and then as you go down it widens so I believe that the it looks like it was recently done or very recently done um was nicely paved my question just was that the 24 feet this home is in the wider area from this block well uh what again what what's in place along this particular home is 22 1/2 ft and you're right the pavement width does vary a little bit throughout throughout its length um the question is uh you know is is one of Common Sense and one of complying with with with the laws that that we're Guided by um if if if you were to ask me uh what would the development standard be for this road if it was not that semi-improved standard the road would be a 15t half width but since we have that semi-improved uh ordinance in in in effect here that allows for residential homes on semi-improved roads the ordinance says you can have a road that's 24 feet and again RSI says this road falls into a classification of rollal Street which only requires 20 feet right so my question is this block has both it's wider and more narrow at some points during this block this particular home um do you know if that is the wider part of the block or the more narrow part of the block unfortunately I don't really know the answer to that question so I Mr hman I Think I Can Shed a little bit more insight into the into your question um there are portions of endiro road that are narrower than this Frontage and there are also portions that are slightly wider so they're kind of right in the middle now we're only talking about a foot and a half difference here and and be be aware between the 24t minimum width and the 222 right so it's a foot and a half difference um also just to understand if you were to ask the applicant to improve the road it's only along his Frontage it's not along the entire Road out to West Commodore right it's only along the frontage here so we we see we have seen the circumstance come up on semi-improved roads in Jackson there are quite a few of them and um you know from a safety perspective I'm not going to disagree with graham that it it meet it meets or exceeds the rsis requirements for the classification of the roadway so u i don't disagree with that statement at all um with respect to the uh Su um septic system the applicant had agreed back in October 22 to um ultimately design permit and install an alternative treatment unit system so that was agreed to previously um I'm assuming Graham just for clarification you abandon the septic system for lot 20 that was on this property I'm assuming they rebuilt a new septic system uh they're they're going to have to that that house is V I know that house is vacant right now and obviously they have to install a new septic system to accomodate that house so that'll be a condition for lot 20 as part of a CO correct but that has nothing to do with this application correct okay um also real quick for the board um you know the variance requests here are not associated with the size of the building or the location of the structure they're purely related to lot area and lot depth from a from a building perspective it's a two-story home with a building envelope of 43 by 30ish U which results in a building coverage of 78 7.8% which is below 30 required for this Zone and a maximum loot coverage of just under 14% where 70 is allowed for this zone so they're well within the two controls built into the ordinance to regulate building size which is loot coverage and maximum building coverage just ask one question on that so the 200 minimum requirement is that based on an R20 or R1 so lot you're you're asking about lot depth yeah that's based on the example that's based on the Zone requirement which is R20 which is R20 correct okay all right thank you just keep in mind um from a legal perspective this is an undersized law case um the applicant is required to comply with the doll Meer case um and part of that is sending Buy sell letters uh to adjacent properties to see if they can in fact make the lot uh acquire more land to make the lot bigger or sell their land they were to sell their land would be at uh the prices if the variances were granted on the property um as if these improvements were made um so it wouldn't be just for the um wooded lot um the question then turns to um the you know whether or not um you know these variances can be granted um according to you know weighing the the negatives for uh you know the the uh potential impacts to the Zone plan Zone ordinance all that stuff but again on an undersized loot case I caution the board um because you're essentially when it comes to undersiz Lots you could potentially rezone this property into something that becomes useless which um becomes inverse condemnation the two variances that are sought on this particular application are with regard to what currently exists with the lot right the lot area which the applicant can do nothing about um as well as the lot depth which the can do nothing about if there are no uh willing sellers or purchasers so um just keep that in mind on this particular type of case yes we we've done one one test pit uh yes the water the water table was uh the elevation 135 um it was about 5 ft or so below below grade plus or minus uh well we we had adjusted the basement floor elevation on on this plan originally we had the basement set a couple feet lower and we did go out and do this test pit and now we have the basement set at elevation 137 which is 2 ft above the seasonal high water so we did we did do a test pit and did take that into consideration uh we do have to do two additional test pits for the septic design when we get to that stage that's required by the by the septic code so they have to be done within the actual footprint of the disposal field okay uh rsis requirement is two two and a half parking spaces uh we're providing three correct chair speak water just to Mr Hill is there any concern regarding storm water runoff so uh Mr Hudak thank you for pointing that out because I have I have my note here to talk about the soil test pit as well I apologize um but yeah soil test pit was completed and I I agree with Graham's testimony based on the seasonal high water table they're providing a minimum separation distance of 2 feet to the bottom of the basement which is which is um recommended um with respect to the lot grading even though they've elevated the lot they are um they are U utilizing grass line swes um to convey water to pre-existing low spots where the water previously flowed um there is no um there there is no adverse impact to to the to the drainage patterns as a result of the proposed grading as far as the quantity of stormm water man mement they'll there'll be a slight increase uh if what what a slight increase but this project is not qualify as a major development therefore doesn't require storm water management practices just uh sorry to interrupt um the flow of the the the application here I just want to reflect for the record that at 9:01 p.m Miss Parnes had to uh leave the meeting uh due to um a familial commitment so she uh the record should reflect that Miss Parnes uh did did exit at 9:01 p.m. sorry about that Mr Hill if this road at some point in time were to be improved what width would Jackson make it 24 feet I'm asking with with regard to the need for curbs and sidewalks because I would hate to see you know some of the Lots do have Curbing and I don't want to see somebody do something twice understood and and that that would be the case so if if if you had asked this applicant to put Curbing and sidewalk in you the the reasonable the reasonable request there would be um install the sidewalk such such that you you conform to the semi-improved roadway standard of 24t which is only a foot and a half Beyond the Edge of pavement now again that's only within the frontage of this one lot right uh the risk you would run though is if the township if the township does in the future uh decide to improve the roadway the question is would it be designed as would the entire roadway be designed to meet the semi-improved roadway or they want to would they want to increase the standard with increase the width of it which would be I think in all cases or in either of those two cases would require right of way retaining obtaining right away from all the other properties and so on that would also include probably storing rainwork yeah I would agree with that um I'm not I'm not I don't know it all but I'm not aware of the township converting any semi-improved roadways into 30 foot wide cartway widths within the last since I've been here I'm just not aware if it may have happened I'm just not aware of it so I I think I think it's very unlikely that that that they would come in U again with respect to Curbing and sidewalk I'm going to defer to the board on that sidewalk does not currently exist on any of the Lots adjacent to it or nearby curbing is sporadic throughout throughout there curbing will curbing does serve a purpose right it's a barrier for vehicles um but it's also a barrier for storm water FL and that's always my concern when you start spot lotting curbing improvements because it could it could have an adverse impact on drainage that was the point of my question you start to blck things up it becomes problematic Mr mirell do you have architecturals on this that you intend to produce just just for dalm purposes I want to uh yes I did I did show them their exhibit A3 and A4 thank you okay maybey just pull them up real quick just to refresh I I I apologize we had put up the uh the floor plans and then there were some uh there was a set of of elevations as well thank you that's thank thank you in the earlier uh time uh the application was heard there was some question about the fences and I know the title was uh received by us are those fences cleared or just for the record so we have have that down so I mean the the question about the fence would be uh an issue for the applicant to address what I can tell you is that from a merger perspective um the title search indicates that these have always been two separate Lots um they are not no longer under common ownership I believe at one point in time there may have been an overlap in ownership but for whatever reason did not merge now that they're not under common uh ownership any longer it's really a nonissue because we can't now go back and merge the properties because they're not owned by the same persons right so from a merger perspective we can't undo what was never done does that make sense we can't do what was never done and you can't take away property rights right I mean property rights exist we can't now go back and think away and say you got mer yep they should have merged so now they're merged that's not how the doctrine merger Works they should have been merged at one point I believe um but at this particular moment it's really it's really irrelevant the doctrine merger in terms of what the case law indicates makes it very clear that you can't now now go back now that the properties are no longer under under common ownership and merge and merge them um so but the fence question is a good question and certainly one that the applicant can address Mr Peters on page one there's a couple of uh comments about what's on the site there was a shipping container that's on the site that's been removed there's a 6 foot high wood fence that's going to be removed by the applicant as well as the chain link fence that'll also be removed questions comments have any else to call I'm going to uh ask you if you'd like to make a closing statement at this time or if you want to wait until after public session I'll wait till after public session we're going to open this to the public at this time you can ask questions on any testimony that you've heard this evening you please please feel free to come forward at this time good evening can you hear me I do apologize I do have a hearing problem so I appreciate I will do I will Ann if you will please raise your right hand I'm going to swear you in do you solemnly swear or affirm that the testimony information questions or comments that you're about to presentable for the board will represent the truth the whole truth and nothing but the truth yes if you would please state your name spell your last name and provide your address Great I Am Elizabeth L Roa last name spelled l a capital r o Za and I reside with my family at 499 in dero Road thank you very much you're welcome which is for all of you that haven't I would like to thank the one zone board that did drive out thank you very much um it's appreciated our road is rural and listening to the comments going it goes wide it goes narrow it's something that we've all enjoyed the person that purchased this lot knew that it was a non-conforming lot when it was or should have known um it's not a single person it's contractor um his business um I am concerned there are laws and things that we should go by we all know that poor Jackson is being you know trees are going down and everything um I'd just like to address just a couple of things it because I missed it so there was a clear title correct or the done undone I I wasn't real sure about that so it looks like the title search reflected let mean let me pull it up here looks like the title search reflected that in 1973 um I'm sorry strike that 1974 um there may have been common ownership between uh the Hogans for both Lots um but for whatever reason these these Parcels never merged under the tax code of Jackson so it's three three lots I'm I'm I'm referring to Lots 20 and 21 which were an issue as far as I'm concerned okay well that's what was that issue at the last hearing yeah right right okay because there are three lots that was in the confusion the one that Ronco was purchased the house that had the septic on his and then the lot that is between um the house and myself um so that's where it all lies that's still a little unclear to me how can I how can I help you understand it okay how no how can I'm being sincere how can I help you understand it so what happens with the doctrine of merger it's it's a common law Doctrine meaning that it's something that you know exists um and it's probably existed since you know the the 74 probably England in the 1400s and okay uh but the problem here is that when something actually doesn't when when when the doctrine emerg is not applied to the property okay what happens is the parcels then get sold to other owners you can't now go back and undo those sales right so if the lots are no longer under common ownership they cannot you can't go back and merge them okay so we're mov does that make sense yep so we're moving forward correct okay the right of way can somebody explain exactly what the right of way because I am concerned with the the depth he's going for the variance of the depth it should be 200 and it's 115 is am I correct I I can so the right away is so if somebody I'm walking my dog and we have a lot of dog walkers um they have a right away to step on that property no the right when we talk about a right away we're referring to the roadway the roadway correct okay that I have a right as a walker to walk on that roadway so correct you would actually have more in this case because the RightWay is being expanded in or encroaching further into the property here so your let's say for instance your property line is 5 feet away from the edge of Pavement in this case because they're dedicating right away Along their Frontage they're dedicating a portion of their they're dedicating 15 ft of their front lawn area right for the purposes of any potential future roadway construction okay so the right of way is a public right of way so the public has the right to Traverse that right and right now he does not have enough footage including that right away he doesn't currently it's 130 foot lot so what they're doing is they're moving their front property line back further from the road to create that additional right away okay so that leads me to believe that you know he is still non-conforming with right away so I understand that um with the elevation um don't know if you had the privilege of going out when it had been raining um we have a terrible time with drainage there I don't know who we call constantly at the end I have a skating rink at the end of Induro and West fish I can't imagine putting another home um and elevating it and the water going into the roadway it just um I it's horrendous right now on this Rural Road um I'll speak for myself and I think my neighbors you can't put sidewalks you can't I know that's not a discussion here but I what I would like to see is is it for to maintain he's going for a hardship of variance the laws was set that you need this for a reason and to me it hasn't been proven that it's good enough to say yeah go ahead I I just with the drainage the the distance we have dog walkers we have kids now God bless them riding bicycles in the past yeah when we were here in 22 we had a death on the road with motorcycles um just horrific and I can't imagine this other lot just taking precedence you've got rules and regulations so coming from someone that's lived here and loves living here um I would ask you to all take that into consideration come visit our road it it is beautiful and we'd like to keep it D does that mean I'm done thank you thank you so much thank you for coming forward is there anyone else wishing to come forward at this time good evening sir if you would please raise your right hand do you somly swear or affirm that the testimony information questions or comments that you're about to present before the board be the truth the whole truth and nothing but the truth yes thank you very much if you would uh also please state your name spell your last name and provide your address my name is Glenn d d e Vu y s I live at 516 daral Road thank you okay now the reason why we're here is because enderal road is like a river all our basements get flooded and by building a house there the water has no place to go because you're taking up space where the water would be absor you know absorbed into the ground and the mortar building you can ask everybody on the street our basement's flood every time the water runs down the street like Betsy said it's like a river we have big water problems there now like she said when he bought the lot he knew the lot was UND the sized I'm a builder if I seen something is under the sized say no I'll buy a pass it I don't feel that a house should be put there of that size taking up that much space that close to the road his driveway is going to be directly across from my driveway and they're going to park on the street you can't can't park on the street in that because you can't get down that road I don't care to say oh we got two and a half spaces three spaces people buy more cars three cars where they going to put it on the front lawn they're going to park it in the street then I won't be able to get out of my driveway now I'm just saying that we should abide by the rules the rules is the rules that's that's all I have to say thank you thank you for coming forward sir anyone else wishing to come forward at this time sorry no problem sorry about that if if you would please raise your right hand thank you you Solly swear affirm that the testimony information questions or comments say you're about to present before the board present the truth the whole truth and nothing but the truth I do if you would please also state your name spell your last and provide your address Michael heren h e r n c h a k 520 d Road thank you sir yeah so the common denominator here with the rest of the people in the neighborhood it's undersized lot and possibly going to be the largest home on the street or damn near close to it there's no reason for that as far as the easement you're talking about how wide the road is gets narrow at the end of the street by West commodore if you were to take this this 15 ft right that's what we're talking about easement of 15 ft and you drew a straight line up that side of the road you'd wind up inside One-Stop garage that's on West commodor so there's no way that you'd ever be able to widen that road completely all the way up you'd have to take property from the other side and I believe you'd wind up in the other gentleman's house on the other side of one stop it's barely enough room for one car to come out to West cometer and the road comes out on an angle it's an engineering nightmare obviously the road was built early on in Jackson's life all these homes on this street have been built at different times different per time periods okay some of them are from the 50s some of them 70s 80s it's not a development okay it's a street um this gentleman bought this property unfortunately buyer beware why would would you invest all this money in this property all this time into this property full well knowing you can't build on it you're not by law you're not supposed to be building on this thing and it's like it doesn't even seem like it's close so you're building a four bath four bedroom how many how many bathrooms this place going to be two and a half bath with a basement then what happens when the people move in there they're going to go for permit to add a bathroom in the basement how big is the septic going to beig is it going to be big enough to handle this we already got drainage problems okay why even approve this house to be built with a basement why why does it need to have a basement put it on a slab instead okay there's another home on this street that house was built with a basement she's had water problems forever okay so this is a big issue there's laws there's there's there's planning for a reason when I built my garage I had to jump through hoops to build that garage to fall into parameters just the way it is some things some things cannot be forgiven and that's that's it that's the way it goes thank you excuse me thank you for coming Mr Hill are all the um homes surrounding that home all those lots coning um I would not know that you can ask you could if you want you can ask the applicants engineer on that I mean I have a picture of a tax map in front of me um but as part of the applicant's testimony I believe two years ago he had commented on that Mr McFarland yeah I think there there are um other lots that are UND sized in the area um certainly lot 20 next door is certainly Lot 19 is under sized um I think most of the Lots across the street are uh do meet the minimum lot size requirements but as as a gentleman um testified uh this is not a development this is a a road that was developed over time and a lot of individual houses constructed uh you know those houses May certainly have some some problems on on their individual Lots uh you know we don't know how those lots are graded and at what elevation those basements um you know May uh may may sit but this home will be constructed in accordance with uh with current current requirements and uh you know safeguards put in place so we don't have those problems on this on this particular lot I know this was touched upon earlier so forgive me I just want to go back we talked about the water testing I heard you indicate that you had to do two more you heard the concerns about the basement I know you also said that you changed the elevation of the basement was that because of the water concern yes yes it was we did raise the basement floor elevation from what we had on the original plan and again we do have to do two additional test pits as part of the septic system design I just wanted to ask technical question may for our lawyer um so I I I think the the public has mentioned a few times that they have they have oh okay hopefully that's better um that it's on the applicant to prove that there's a um a hurt that there there's somehow a hardship right um if that hardship existed when they bought it do we still consider that as a hardship and this is going to help the hardship no that's that's not an appropriate consideration and in fact what I'd like to do is I'm going to I'm going to put the language of the do Meer case on the record this should help you and in fact the not only does the court tell us what factors to consider it also tells us exactly what how we should be considering it okay so I'm going to read this directly from the case law this is from dalm versus Lacy Township 219 NJ super 130 uh 134 1987 the Appel division um wrote this opinion and what they said was the applicant should be one required to carry the burden of proof as in all other cases both positive and negative criteria two demonstrate that the efforts were made to bring the property into Conformity with the zoning ordinance by attempting to acquire adjacent property or by offering to sell the non-conforming property to adjacent owners those are the buy sell letters three submit detailed plans of the proposed house which describe its appearance and prove its compliance with building codes four attempt were applicable to demonstrate compliance with the use sidey and setback requirements and location of the house among other homes on small tracks with similar frontages five attempt to demonstrate that the proposed use does not violate any traditional zoning purposes such as light air and open space the case law continues the board should one evaluate the testimony to determine whether it should elicit additional information to supplement the record two make specific findings of fact based on the record to support its conclusions three consider whether in lie of denying an application it can be it it can approve it subject to reasonable conditions which would modify the proposal and obviate or minimize any negative impact and four remember to be conscien conscientious in its review of The Facts since outright denial May amount to confiscation thus requiring condemnation by the municipality so that those are the factors that the board outlines for the board to consider when discussing undersized law cases whether or not the the the non-conformities were there at the time of purchase is ultimately irrelevant the fact of the matter is is that there's a non-conforming lot in a residential Zone where there's a proposed residential use we talk about the rules and um and the entire purpose of the zoning board is for for residents um and other land use um professionals come uh and request a variance from those rules that's the entire purpose of this board so what they're doing is they're following the proper procedure in requesting that the board Grant a variance the fact of the matter is this is residential Zone a residential use is being proposed to complies with all setback requirements the only variances that are necessary on this lot in order to uh in order to to authorize the construction of the single family residence is related to the size of the lot which something the applicant has no control over and they filed the do Meer case to a t by sending by cell letters so I I don't know if that answers your question but I I I I hope it does yeah I I I think it does I think the key in public has mentioned was that the fact that it was a pre-existing condition and they bought it they should have known or known that you couldn't that is not a factor that we are following the rules and I it's not a it's not a factor and and I think it's not again I can only speculate as to what the Court's intent was um I know what the factors are but that the presumption that the person knew the Zone requirements when they purchased the lot and knew it was undersized that's all speculation there's no evidence to suggest that right and the law is not specific or say if it was a preexisting condition when they bought it the case doesn't even address it doesn't even add I just wanted to address other one other thing Mr Hill um I'm probably going to put you your name sir forgive me Mr heren mentioned about what if they were to build another bathroom how does that affect the septic system so bathrooms in the fir on the first floor and above do not factor into the size of a septic system it's purely based on the number of bedrooms for a home with no bathrooms in the basement once you once you put a b a bathroom in the basement you that requires the use of an ejector pump and not just a bathroom but let's say a kitchen or or any kind of Plumbing fixtures like that it requires an ejector pump uh the regulations require that if you utilize an ejector pump in a septic system design that the septic system has to be designed uh the the size of the septic system has to be larger to accommodate that so when they when they when they do their septic design it's going to be based on the number of bedrooms and whatever else the RS require based on what they want to build if it's built if a septic system is built purely for four bedrooms with no basement with no bathroom or Plumbing fixtures in the basement then they can't build them now if somebody does that's illegal right without without further improving upon the septic system so um you there are V there's there's laws and regulations in place that require that if if a if a bathroom is put in the basement the septic system has to be increased in size period And if it wasn't that's an Enforcement issue not a z that's an Enforcement issue yeah that's like that's no different than somebody not getting a permit to to run electric or finish their basement or someone that that's on the owner doing the work yes Mr that I know it was done in the uh in the last last few months I think they were think I I don't have it on the plan but I think it was done in um August or September that the house has to basement well there are other indicators not not just where the water physically is when when when we dig the test pit there are other indicators which is called called modeling which are indicators of where water has uh been in contact with the soil for long periods of time so that's all reviewed when we do the test pit that's all taken into consideration so it's not just where water is physically hit when you dig the test when you dig the test pit [Music] yes yes so uh in in in concept I agree that that just because you dig a hole and and you you identify water um that's not what we design off of when we're doing test pits we're not only looking for where the water level is currently but we're looking um we're looking at the soils the morphology of the soils to determine what what kind of Redux is going on what type of model of soils what you what you see you see discolorations you see changes in texture and so it's it's it's it can be very subtle but you can see it and those are indicators that the water table Rises throughout the year historically what the the seasonal high water table is just that we're actually entering the seasonal High Time of the Year in January January through April that's when the water levels tend to rise the most it's not to say water levels don't fluctuate also because of precipitation or lack of precipitation uh but the historical record is what we go by we don't go off of even though test pits were dug in let's say August that would have an impact on where the water was observed but that has no impact on the indicators that we see in the soil profile so I agree I agree with Graham's um testimony with respect to that with respect to store otor runoff uh a lot of this air a lot significant portion of this lot is is vegetate is vegetative U whether it's it's grass or whether it's field or phow or lawn of poor of fair to poor condition and then there's there's some vegetation more mature veget vegetation some trees or brushing trees they're not proposing to clearcut this entire lot they're they're proposing a relatively minor amount of tree clearing the rest of it they're converting from what I what I consider to be a fair to poor ground cover because it's not maintained to a better to a good ground cover and and in in doing so um in doing so there's there's there's a negligible amount if any of additional runoff just because they're altering the surface grades doesn't mean that they're creating additional runoff it just means they're altering the paths of that runoff but if you look at the pre-existing grades versus the proposed the proposed grades are still consistent with those of the current grades they're not altering the drainage patterns okay the lot grades towards the road currently and then it grades from it grades into Indira road down to West fish the only increase in the only increase in storm water runoff is due to the footprint of the structure and the asphalt pavement uh these are Sandy soils they're lomy Sands and Sands most of that most of that's going to infiltrate right back into the soils um again for single Lots these don't rise to the level of requiring storm waterer management measures we have in the past if if we've heard testimony from from Neighbors that there's a water that there's a that there have been surface water concerns experienced by them we have asked um applicants to install a dryw which will capture any of the roof runoff keep it on site in a in a storage structure and infiltrate it back into the soils so that is certainly an option therefore you're not you're not releasing any of the roof runoff into indir road and that's certainly an option situ it would it would not be a contributing factor to it no no we will yes yes Mr U Mr hell just one more question on the water and run um from your standpoint is it better or worse to put in curbing sidewalk for the rain purposes meaning if it's if there is an existing issue on the road will it make it better or worse if there is or is not so I'm looking at the grade elevation so curbing tends to concentrate flow right it hits an object it hits the curb and it flows in the in downgrade from there right in this case the road is crowned so some of the storm water actually flows into uh the we'll call the roads the edge of the road and continues flowing down in Deo road I don't think curbing here is going to going to accomplish much and I don't think it's going to be detrimental either it's just a matter of is it is it a necess is it necessary for for whatever reason is it necessary um I think curbing would have an impact in in um Let me let me stop there I don't think curbing would have an impact either way okay good that's fine thank you any other questions or comments are there any other members of the public wishing to come forward and speak at this time please come to the podium ma'am good evening Hi how are you if you would please raise your right hand sure do you solemnly swear affirm that the testimony information questions or comments you're about to present before the board will represent the truth the whole truth and nothing but the truth yes I do thank you very much if you would please state your name spell your last and provide your address Deborah Divas D Vu 516 in Dariel Road thank you okay my big concern is I've been living in Jackson for like 30 some years okay love the road love the rural area that's why I moved down here all right I was originally from North Jersey and more City kind of up there Jackson has been beautiful and I love it here um I don't understand like the rules and the regulations as far as undersized lot like all my neighbors even neighbors that live in our street that weren't affected by this construction all have water issues okay this past spring we had a very rainy season uh we had a problem with indera Road since day one since we moved down here the Township's aware of it we had called quite a few times they actually put drainages at the End by Betsy's house which has been sometimes it gets clogged it's been years over 30 some years okay it's been clogged there's ice issues the school buses swerve because of the water okay and the ice in the wintertime in the springtime nothing but mosquitoes larvae all right there is a drainage problem and since the building that's been going on with the ex Mitch Lee that's behind all those other side he's building okay where wono is building there has been more of a water problem so evidently the water situation I don't understand where you're coming from because you're supposed to be an expert on all list all right you don't live on the street okay you don't have to deal with what we have to deal with on a daily basis I almost fell and broke my neck on the ice in front of my driveway have to have people come and just chop the ice off there is a water problem people do have pumps in their basement and I'm on the opposite side of the street okay so we have an issue but not as bad as on I guess you're called it the east side of enderio road but my major thing is the water issue okay the undersiz lot is also an issue I don't understand why there's rules and regulations like you're trying to tell me or exping if there's a law there's a law there stop Street you can't stop you stop you don't stop you get a ticket all right why is it for certain people certain things certain times that some people are allowed to get away with things and but the people who are living on the street have to suffer if he was living on on our road like I I spoke to him person um if he was living on a road I wouldn't have a problem as far as him building a home but the water issue is like I said my biggest concern my mom almost fell my children almost fell the kids get on the school us the water is running from the top of West Commodore down like a river and like we tried to adjust it with the township and they did come out and they did put the drain in but sometimes it gets clogged and they don't come out like they're supposed to come out to clean that drain at the end of in Dairy own fish okay so there's always an ice issue when there's water and snow on there that's all I need to say about that I'm sorry I took up your time but this is a big concern for me for children people walking our street larvae mosquitoes and Ice issue and that's my big somebody's going to spin out and go into Betsy's driveway or hit somebody as we're walking our dogs on the on the road and I feel with the construction that all the trees and every day come down okay the trees and the and the grass and everything I did some research on oh yes it's supposed to absorb all the water right and take that so if you're going to keep building and taking trees down and building and building and building no matter where it is the is still is where's it going to go where's it going to go like I said our road is like we called it endario River andario because that's how bad it was in this past spr and it's get it's getting worse so I just feel if another house is being built on this road or very rural I think it's going to upset the water table I mean I'm not a professional but that's just my opinion as a resident okay thank you for coming forward is there anyone else in the public who like to come forward and comment at this time are you sure I know I'm just making giving her an opportunity um giving you'd have to come to the podium though ma'am okay all right yeah thank you um given that no one else is coming for from the public we're going to go ahead and close public session um before I ask for comment from the board or any additional questions and give Mr mirel an opportunity I would just like to address um Mr D Devo excuse me um who just came up as Mr Murphy explained this is the Zoning Board of adjustments so the town has established ordinances the St the town has established rules and regulations but a zoning board is just that you get to come before us and ask for a variance something different than what's established and the the applicant has to present their case what whatever that case may be right so I'll give you a very simple example not related to this if you lived on a corner lot and you wanted to put a fence you're considered to have two front yards you would have to come before the zoning board to get a variance for that right you would have to present your case what is your hardship your hardship is that you're on a corner lot they are presenting their hardship and although you may not agree with it that's the reason for the zoning board so even though there are rules and regulations there is a there is an an outlet a way for someone to come before the board and say this is the situation this is where we are and this is what we would like to do so that's why although it it may seem contradictory because they established rules in the process this is part of that process that you can come and present your case so I just wanted to be clear about that Mr Murphy not only that there's an entire body books and books and books and books filled with case law from men much smarter than myself men men women much smarter than myself uh appell judges Supreme Court judges in the state of New Jersey um that tell us and guide us on how to interpret these types of applications so again while there are laws there are also laws that tell us when we should be and should not be granting variances um and that's just the way it works very this application is is before you because of a hardship the the variances that we're seeking are all pre-existing conditions there's there's nothing that could be done to to change those conditions I believe we've satisfied all the conditions of the the dalm case uh and on that basis I would ask that you approve this application thank you sir board up to us for discussion questions comments Mr Hudak questions comments Dr hofstein I I think the case law in case I would just discussed uh sort of tells us what we have to do uh with deciding on on this case uh the applicant has uh eliminated some negative criteria from the parking spots to the storm water runoff to the contributing to the sidewalk fund um and so on uh the things that can't be changed are obviously the lot size and and the depth uh but it depends whether this that it depends whether by granting this there is substantial detriment to the public good and whether or not the it substantially impaires the intent and purpose of the own plan and the zoning ordinance and in my opinion it it meets the requirements to approve the application thank you Mr diman well I definitely um hear the concerns of the neighbors we appreciate you coming forward um like many have mentioned the issue of flooding in the area um I heard this from the last meeting and that's why I drove down there to see what the improvements were um I see that there definitely were some improvements you know like I said the road was recently done apparently the township did not choose to put in uh drainage but again the applicant has revised our plans to raise their basement because of the concern of the water um both of the professionals are testifying that it will not adversely affect any of the neighbors um or the flooding it that it will not make it worse the applicant agreed to put in a dry well to contain that extra water um I mean as much as it is a rural area I mean sort of flooding does go together I mean I hate to say it but those are part of the benefits of a rural area as far as the parking concerns on the on the road definitely you have a hard time someone tries driving down that road in the narrow part just going both directions is difficult if somebody Parks there's definitely a problem uh I think it would be wise to bring it up to the township and possibly have them put in no parking signs on the road um but again that's not our board that would be something that the Town Council would have to do thank you Mr Stafford Smith I am appreciative of the Neighbors coming in and voicing their concerns the flooding and the water drainage on the issue I have been down the road it is narrow it does tend to change and with I think the idea of putting curbs would be detrimental I think the applicant is addressed the issues of water has agreed to put in the collection on site so there's no water runoff to other properties I think it behooves the neighbors to become in touch with the township if the drainage problem is that profound it needs to be addressed I think the applicant is done what they've need to done and I also think case law does guide us as to where we need to be with this Mr Martins questions comments um yeah just some comments I think Mr hel actually took all the words out of MTH I agree 100% uh with what he said so what all I would add is no matter what comes out of this for the public to not be discourage it sounds like you have a flooding problem and the municipality should do something about that you coming here is great and and it adds a lot of value believe it or not please keep going and and try to get that flooding fixed um you know from what the testimony that's been given by our experts building this home here will not make it worse won't make it better sounds like but at least it won't make it worse with the dry well we're doing thank you just yeah just from a legal perspective again the downer case guides the board to um uh to address the negative uh impacts by imposing reasonable conditions the applicant agreeing to uh the dryw well and and things of that nature to address those concerns um certainly fits within the criteria of of the do Meer case again these are it's never easy to hear um about all the the flooding concerns and and the concerns of the neighbors because quite frankly um you know these are your neighbors um you know and so I I Echo the sentiments of the board I urge you to contact the township the municipality and tell them what's going on um because uh they're the only ones that can fix it this board doesn't have authority to do that um you know and again with respect to the zoning board the zoning board has to apply the law and the law is clear um if we were to deny these variances being that it's an R20 z um strike that it's a residential Zone I can't remember R20 right I just want to make sure uh it's the R20 Zone that's a residential Zone meaning that the is permitted are residential use if the if the if the town were to if the zoning board were to deny this particular application again that may very well condemn that property and by condemning that property that means the township has to purchase the property and that means that your taxes go up and things of that nature so there's always considerations um you know that that is not a guiding factor for the board but that's something the public should consider in in cases like this because it's one way or the other it's it's it's almost a double-edged sword um for the Neighbors um and and we're not insensitive to that but the law is clear um and and in my opinion that the the applicant has in fact satisfied the criteria required under the dalm case and I I I would um I would concur uh with the sentiments placed on the record by Mr May Bella um in in that regard and um again if the board is satisfied that the criteria has been satisfied the board must Grant the uh Grant the variances I'm not going to repeat what everyone else said but I do want to speak to the neighbors directly we are we do hear you we are listening you may not feel that way right now but we are listening we are neighbors to other residents of Jackson ourselves um but we're follow we have to follow the law as Mr Murphy stated um but we do hear you and we are listening but we want you to hear us right now multiple many of us up here have told you you have to continue if you have that much of a flooding issue you have to continue to go to the township and make this problem known to get something done but unfortunately the zoning board is not the board who can do anything about that all that being said um we've had discussion I'm sorry yes Mr H oh yeah they're not going to put in curbing they'll make Mr Mr McFarland would you confirm that you're not going to put in curbing but you'll make a contribution agreed beautiful that will be reflect the resolution of approval or denial that Mr Hill leave it as it is I started to say that but I'll let you put that on record okay given all the conversation yes please to square miles just to address the um widening of the road um we did hear from cons concerns from the neighbors that if they were to widen the road closer to West Com or further then it would end up in a shop which is like basically really narrow at that area so based on the testimon from the neighbors I would not suggest widening the road all right we've all heard the discussion um anyone want to make a motion just uh to clarify that motion to approval include the conditions as to the ATU for the septic system as well as the drywell system correct thank you I'm sorry in the contribution in lie of um contribution of The Pedestrian safety Fund in lie of construction of Curbing and sidewalk we have a motion in a second oh I'm sorry did someone want to say something I have Hudak on the motion and Dr hoffstein on the second can we have a motion to Second roll call please absolutely Mr Heyman yes Dr hofstein Mr Hudak Mr Martins yes Mr Stafford Smith yes Miss Bradley yes Mr May m it's been passed thank you wait motion to close everyone in favor and I know there's no one opposed