To the flag of the United States of America and to the republic for it stands one nation under God indivisible with liberty and justice for all. This meeting complies with the open public meetings act. Notice of this
meeting been published on the municipal bulletin board and the applicable newspapers. >> We are really getting it together. I want everyone to feel calm about that. >> Please >> here.
here. >> Here >> I believe we have four resolutions. Mr. Am I correct? >> You are correct. >> Right. All right. And I'm sorry there.
All right. Will this attached? Is that >> Oh, yeah. I do have I sorry I could pull them up on my phone, but they're not copies right here. >> Thank you very much. >> All right.
So, uh the first two um pertain to the uh Jackson crossing um number uh three and four. It says number two here, but I believe that's number three and four. >> Um, so we'll make that change. And the
first one is for the amended preliminary and final site plan approval. And I'm sure everyone recalls that we heard a uh significant amount of testimony about that. The conditions are contained in the resolution
and uh present at for that vote were Mr. Breie, Mr. Such, Mr. Mr. Martins and Miss Bradley. Um, if anyone has uh seen
the I'm sorry, >> I think you missed that meeting at the beginning of June. >> Yes. >> Yeah. If anyone if anyone has watched the meeting who was not present, they would be eligible to vote today. Is
there a motion? Motion to approve. >> Second roll call, please. >> Yes. >> Yes. >> Yes.
>> Yes. >> All right. For the memorializing resolution that passes, Yeah, >> correct. >> That's correct. And on the same application, this is the minor
subdivision approval. And that was also voted on by the same individuals, Mr. Pressie, who's obviously not here, Mr. Such, Mr. Heyman, Mr. Morton's, and Miss Bradley. Is there a motion? Motion to approve.
Second >> roll call, please. >> Yes. >> Yes. >> Yes. >> Yes. >> Okay. The next one, 2025-21
is granting amended preliminary and final manager subdivision for Swanborn. If you recall, they had approvals. They had had the uh issue where the D had determined there were additional wetlands and there were changes to the
site plan as a result of that. There were reduction in number of units and that for that we had uh Dr. Hoffstein, Mr. Hudach, um Mr. Heyman, Mr. Such, Miss Rosal, Miss Bradley, and Mr.
Martins that were present. Is there a motion to approve? A motion to approve. >> Second. >> Roll call, please. >> Yes. >> Yes. >> Yes.
>> Yes. >> And the final one for this evening is resolution 2025-22. This was approving the sign variance for the application was made by powerhouse signs for sketchers uh at the outlet. Um
and the conditions that were in the um professionals reports are included in the resolution on that date. It was moved by Dr. Hoffstein, seconded by Mr. Pressy in favor um Mr. Presley, Mr. Heyman, Mr. H Dr. Hoffstein, Mr. Razal, Mr. Martins, Mr.
Such and Miss Bradley. Is there a motion to approve? >> Motion to approve. Second. >> Roll call, please. >> Yes. >> Yes. >> Yes.
>> Yes. >> Okay. Thank you very much. >> All right. We also have some minutes for this evening. I'm going to do them individually because obviously we have different people who were here for the meetings. Uh the first one are minutes from the August 7th of 2024
meeting. Um so we're going to need a motion and a second. And those who are eligible are Mr. Hyman, Dr. Hoffstein, Miss Rosal, and myself. >> Motion to second. >> I'll second it.
>> Roll call, please. >> Sure. Mr. Heyman, Dr. Hine, Miss Rosal, and myself. Yes. >> Yes. >> Yes. Next up we have from January 8th of
2025. Those eligible are myself, Dr. Hoffstein, Mr. Heyman, Miss Rosal, Mr. Such, and Mr. Martins. >> Oh, I guess that's everybody, right? Okay. Sorry. >> Let's make a motion to approve.
>> Second. >> Roll call, please. >> Yes. >> Yes. >> Yes. >> Yes. >> Yes. >> And last but not least, we have minutes
from the July 16, 2025 meeting. Uh myself, Dr. Mr. Hoffstein, Mr. Heyman, Miss Rosal, and Mr. Martins. >> Motion to approve. >> Second. >> No, just Mr. Such.
>> Yes. >> Yes. Yes. With special thanks to Kathleen who was able to make sense out of what was said. >> Yes. >> Did you call Mr. Martin? >> Yes.
>> Thank you. Uh next up we have minutes. Now I have three vouchers. Uh we will four vouchers, excuse me. Handle them all at one time. I have one for tonight's meeting, 8625 for attending the meeting for Miss Tumulo. I also have
January 8th uh January 8th of 2025, January 15th of 2025, and then 87 of 2024 for doing the minutes. So, I need a motion and a second to approve all four of the vouchers. >> Motion to approve. >> Second.
>> Roll call, please. >> Yes. >> Yes. >> Yes. >> Yes. Do we have any announcements this evening, Mr. Supri? >> Um, yes. We have one um regarding number
three on the agenda. This is ursinova vlo. It's a used variant. Um it had been carried multiple times. Um it is to be carried to October 29th. Notice will be required and the plans are being revised.
>> Since there's no additional announcements, we need to swear in the professionals. >> Oh, and Gina, >> please raise your right hand. You swear the testimony. you will give before this board will be the truth and nothing but the truth. >> I do. >> I do.
>> And please state your name and position for the record. >> Mark Roire, board engineer. Ernie Peters, board planner. >> Excuse me. >> Okay. No executive session this evening. No executive session this evening. Do we have any matters for discussion?
>> Yes. I'd like to bring up uh the board membership. We are basically having problems uh having enough members particularly when we have a D variance. Uh tonight we are we remember short uh next week we have uh next meeting we
have two applications both have been carried numerous times because of lack of membership. So I first would hope that the council will complete the appointments and the other
thing is uh Mrs. Parnes has not been here for over five months and we know she had maternity leave. Hopefully she's well hopefully the baby is well. But I think she hasn't let us know whether she plans on continuing being a member of
the board and if she does uh please try to show up particularly next meeting when we absolutely need uh seven members here. So thank you. >> Thank you Dr. Hoffstein. Any additional matter discussion?
No, there will be an opportunity for public comment um on any matter appropriate for the board at the uh end of the meeting. This is just this particular section is just for discussion amongst the boards unless the chair elects to open it.
>> Um yeah, just one thing on that same topic. So our our new member um I was just a little confused. >> She's no longer going to be joining the board >> ever. >> Correct. >> Okay. Because I No, that's okay. There was an email sent out say you may not have seen >> Yeah, I s I saw it. I was just whether
Anyway, I got it. It's not just until September forever. >> No, she's not able to take her seat. Um and so, uh presumably the council will act to fill um both that vacancy and the alternate number one at the next council
meeting. >> Okay. Thank you. >> That is our hope. >> Okay. Thank you. No administrative approvals this evening. So, we're going to move on to application number one. Applicant is uh Chai Lifeline, New Jersey, Inc. Signs Variance 3535.
>> Good evening. Good evening, ladies and gentlemen. Michael Roberts from the Roberts Law Firm presenting Ian Bordon on behalf of this application. >> Thank you. Um my recollection is that uh Mr. Bordon had been sworn previously but uh Mr. Bordon, do you uh rather or
affirm that the testimony you'll give before this board will be the truth and nothing but the truth? >> I do. >> And uh I believe your credentials have already been accepted in this matter. >> Correct. >> Thank you. So uh let me quickly explain after our
last hearing we had received some directions and some guidance from the board and the professionals. So we revised the plans. We have the exhibit on the on the screen now where there's two two pages of plans that we submitted. Um first is the freestanding
sign. Uh just a brief recap of where we were. Please be reminded that the uh the site plan that was approved in 2005 has an approved free uh standing sign located in the front right corner of the property which is uh has 100 square feet
uh which is a variance was granted at that time. U height is 16 ft set back of 30 ft. We had proposed a sign in the center of the of the site with a zero setback. We have revised the plan as suggested at the board to move the sign
to the an island in the park the first island in the parking lot which has a setback of 50 feet. So it's it's actually set back uh almost 50% farther than the uh the ordinance requires. Uh because of that increased setback we we
we the sign that was proposed in the front had a proposed area of 247 square feet. We did downsize the sign. We are proposing 147 ft. So we are proposing [Music]
47 square ft more than what is currently permitted and uh more than the 75 ft that's permitted under the ordinance. Uh my opinion that's justified because of the increased front setback. There is a concern from my client that it is located nearly twice the setback. So the
increased area is appropriate in my opinion. Um, we uh clarified the sign. Uh, we the detail that's on the plan CL which is in the top right corner. The board members have Did my thing just stop working? Of
course it did. Um, perfect. Um, has the details of the areas of the sign. One of the things we did in the plan, there was some confusion created by my me and my office in part over we had Oh,
thank you Graham. That'll be a hit there. Thanks, Graham. He has batteries. I do not. Oh, now it's working. Of course it is. Um, where was I? So uh there was some
confusion created by us on on the we had requested variance for animated sign clarification was requested because the ordinance talks alternately about animated or changeable copy. We had uh I had testified at the last hearing that we were not seeking animated sign. We were seeking a changeable copy sign.
There were certain performance standards that were noted in the hearing. We also I also went back and and did a deeper dive into the ordinance and uh we are proposing I am sorry That is a spam call and I turned my
phone off. Um, so the the want to just put a couple facts on the record as it relates to the ordinance and to follow up on a discussion of last week. Uh, the message it is a changeable sign. We are not proposing an animated sign. The copy
will not be changed more than once per day. The message and graphic content must be related to the permitted use of the premises. We call this is a charitable administrative and family support center for pediatric cancer in particular. Um all of each message and
graphic will fit onto onto the single screen. No scrolling or incomplete message is permitted. The sign will not contain any animation or flashing scrolling moving lights. Those are performance standards in the ordinance. We we agree to comply with that. The
sign and and this sentence I'm going to read comes directly out of the ordinance and we agree to comply with it. and that is that the sign shall not shall not display an illuminative brightness of such intensity or brightness that it impairs the vision or endangers the safety and welfare of any pedestrian,
cyclist or person operating the motor vehicle. Uh of the 147 square ft we do have uh three components of that. The top is the name of the facility high lifeline which is 28 square ft. We do have the donor
panels. We had discussed at the last meeting relocating the donor panels to the building and I want to uh we would like to keep these seven donor panels on the freestanding sign. The reason for that will become a little bit more evident when I talk next about the wall
signage. But that portion of the sign is 56 square ft and then we have the changeable copy on the bottom which is the entire width of the sign which is 63 square ft with the performance criteria that I had noted uh before.
So, so what we are seeking is uh uh two variances for the freestanding sign. One, as I mentioned, a free the sign area of 147 square ft where 75 ft is maximum permitted and and second is the
changeable copy sign under 207A20. We're proposing changeable copy on the 63 square foot. Uh if we could go to exhibit the next page, please Anthony, we'll talk about the wall signage. The wall signage was brought up at the last hearing.
Um the facts were were brought to our attention that because this is a single tenant building. The uh the sign regulations limited to a single wall sign even though the
building is uh 20 34,000 ft. Uh recall that this site plan was approved in 2005 as a shopping center which had multiple tenants approximately 10 tenants. So the original approval had about had 10 wall signs plus or minus but being a single
tenant that is something that the ordinance says. So we have built built that into our submitt. This is the second page of our submitt. It's the rendering of the front of the building prepared by the architect Rise Architecture and uh I wanted to and the
notations on the plans and I want to testify as to uh some relief we're seeking for for the wall signage u um the permitted sign area under the ordinance is 15% of the wall area or 80
square feet whichever is smaller. That is very uh that is a an ordinance section that doesn't treat my my this project well because the total wall area in this project is over 8,000 square ft. So under the first part of that sentence
15% of the wall area will be 1,200 square ft but obviously we're limited to the 80 square ft as the second part of that sentence. So there's a tremendous delta between the 15% and the maximum size. my opinion the ordinance didn't consider a
single tenant of such a large building like this uh in u in the highway commercial zone we are proposing 300 square feet of sign area so we are proposing 3.7% where it it does permit 15% minus the 80 ft maximum
uh we are proposing three wall signs it was brought to our attention that the ordinance uh prohibits and that's under B7A it it permits one wall sign for each tenant and again we They have high lifeline will occupy the building themselves. So they are the only uh they're the owner but they're the only
tenant thereby. So we are proposing three wall signs. We have the uh you're looking at the kind of an angular front rendering you have their name at the center of the building over the main entrance. But then on on either end of the building basically on the end cap we
have a large donor sign. Um, it's their it's their corporate symbol and a donor sign and and we are proposing donor signs on the building and the sign because the the donor names on the building are the mega or large donors that donate large
portions of the building uh of the inside of the building. And then the uh the sign the freestanding sign is reserved for the smaller donors. U so it's very important to my client that they be permitted to display the donors. Donors are very
important to their charitable business. So it's very important that they're uh um they be permitted to have the donor signs on both the building, the two larger ones on the building as well as the seven smaller ones on the portion of the freestanding sign.
Uh lastly, there is a design waiver. Okay. Uh lastly, there is a single design waiver that we're requesting uh under uh B6D of the sign ordinance section 207. Any freestanding sign is limited to four colors and uh we just simply ask relief
from that. Again, we're not proposing an animated sign, but u four colors is limiting from a graphic perspective. So, we would just ask a waiver uh for that. It would be impractical to limit the colors to just four colors.
Uh all the all the signage including the wall signage will be internally illuminated and there is no changeable copy or animated sign uh proposed on the wall signage. They will be static illumin um internally illuminated
sign. >> Any questions for Mr. Bordon? >> Mr. Hello. >> Sorry. Uh on the freestanding sign in front uh is it going to be on the ground or raised? >> Thank you. Uh it's a great I should have
Yes, it is a free we had proposed a ground sign where it was on the ground but by if you don't mind Anthony go back to a on by moving it backwards we we raised the bottom of the sign to 5 1/2 ft above the the the ground. We maintained the maximum height of 16 ft.
So, we didn't make the sign itself any higher, but we raised the bottom of the sign up so you could see it over the cars. >> Doesn't the ordinance uh suggest that you put some kind of plantings around a ra sign? >> Yeah, we we'll propose we'll provide the
landscaping as required by the ordinance. >> And >> that's primarily for a ground sign, but but but we'll provide the landscaping. >> Okay. Thank you. Um the wall signs, how permanent are the
names on the building going? >> My understanding is they're permanent. Once they make that donation to donate that portion of the building, it's permanent. It's not changed. >> Well, because we see stadium rights change and hospital names change depending on who comes up with.
>> To my understanding, that's not it's not it's permanent. >> Well, if you do change a sign, can you come before the board and let us know and let the zoning board zoning officials now. >> That's fine. >> Okay. Thank you.
>> I'm sorry. >> I thought he was speaking. I'm sorry. Go ahead, >> Mr. >> Correct. >> Cheetah, I'm sorry. We're having trouble understanding if you could sit if the mic is maybe a maybe a tiny bit slower.
>> I I had the same question and I'm not request the size of >> it's no we are we're we're requesting two variances for the wall signs. One is the total sign area for the wall sign is 300
ft. That includes all three signs. So all three signs together will not exceed 300 square ft. So we will provide details of the lettering and and the size of the letters and whatnot within that 300 square ft as a condition of any
approval, but we're limited to that 300 square ft. So you I'm sorry. I just want to let you know you will have the opportunity to question the witnesses and to make a public comment, but I do ask that you not interrupt. So, Mr. Bordon, um, Anthony, excuse me,
can you bring up the rendering that shows the front of the building? Thank you. So, Mr. Bordon, the we're family and the symbol there, that's one of the wall signs, >> right? There's going to be three. Two are shown in this exhibit. You have the K lifeline in the center. You have one
on the right. There will be one on the left, which is not shown on this exhibit. At least it's in the far background. The total area of those three signs will not exceed 300 300 square ft. >> Now, this the one that's going to be on the far side >> will be very similar to this one, just a
donor name. >> It's going to be a different donor name, but and their symbol. >> Yes. >> But we don't know the exact dimensions. >> Well, I don't know the donor names yet. So, you're asking me an impossible question. >> No, no, no, no. I understand you don't know the names. I'm just trying to help clarify.
>> Um, so the one sign is going to say we're family in the emblem. >> Yes. It'll say right here it'll say the Bordon family donate the pool by Bordon family. >> Right. And then the other side you're going to have a similar one. Whatever that name that name is, correct? And then >> it'll have the recreationary by the
Bradley family. >> There you go. Sounds good. But we don't know the is can we give an estimated? Well, it's 300 square feet for the total. I don't know how to be more specific. >> No, no, it's not. No, no. I understand 300 a lot of different ways. >> Thank you.
>> Normally, so normally what what Miss Tumalo was saying is you would say to me where it says we're family and the emblem is going to be approximately I'm making up numbers now. 150 square feet. Then the other two signs would be 75 each. That's what we're looking for so it can be documented properly. I
understand what you we I think we all can agree. We understand in total it will be 300 but we need a breakdown. So if the one being shown the other one on the other side is going to be the same. If they're going to be 100 if they're going to be 125 each and then chai lifeline is only going to be 50 we need
some rough estimates and then it can be >> doced then I I would say that the high lifeline in the center would be 50 square feet >> and then would be 125 for each of the two donor signs. >> Okay. So that thank you for clarifying
that because that is something I was not understanding. Those top right and left hand symbols were family com that is considered a donor sign. >> Okay. >> It may say tumalo family. >> Gotcha. Okay. So that that clarifies a little bit more for me as well because I thought we were looking for something
else individually placed on the wall in addition to this. Thank you for clarifying that. No problem. >> Any additional questions, Mr. Bordon? >> Uh yeah, just to so I was I was going I was thinking the same thing that you were. So I thought on top of this you were going to have plaques with names of
the top seven donors. No, they're on the standing side. >> Right. So that is the don the plaque donor plaque is what you're showing. >> If this has this the the symbol for high lifeline then the name would be next. >> Right. And and and
um to be one of there's only two >> there's only two top donors, right? There's not top 10, top five. That's correct. There's only two and there's going to be one on each corner. >> That's correct. >> Got it. Okay. That that Yeah, I thought you were gonna have the top 10 on there.
No, no, the bottom 10, not the the corner or something. All right, got it. >> So then just to clarify, we're going to go that middle CHI lifeline is 50 and the two big larger donor size signs, excuse me. Yeah. 125. That's approximately what we're requesting. >> Yes. Yes. >> Okay.
>> Right. And then obviously for any condition resolution approval, >> right? And where will additional donor's names be uh placed? Will they be inside the building or or outside?
>> They're they're placed outside on the facade. >> I'm sorry. >> They're placed the raised lettering on the outside of the facade. >> Okay. >> I'm maybe I'm not understanding. I can't hear very well. Your question, Dr. Hobstein, you're not in the microphone.
It's >> working. I don't >> Okay, let's start again. Just uh where are the other names going to be placed? >> The other names. >> Yes, the additional donors. >> We have the two donors on the building
and then on the on the >> Okay. Okay. The first sign that we discussed. Okay. So, those will be seven different names or whatever it is plus the two buildings. Yes. Okay. Thank you. >> Okay. Any
other questions for Mr. Bordon? >> Mr. Roier. >> Uh, just to clarify, the the ordinance states when there's two sides to a sign, a digital sign. Uh, only you measure
only one side of the sign. So, I just want to confirm is is there is this digital sign double-sided? >> It's double-sided. >> Yeah. So, uh, in total it still would count as 147. >> Correct. >> Sorry, not the digital portion, but
>> correct. >> Yeah. And then can you just confirm that's the only digital sign proposed for the whole application? >> The changeable sign is the 63 foot portion of the freestanding sign. No other changeable copy sign is proposed.
No animated sign is proposed. >> Will there be any audio sounds associated with the sign? >> No. Okay, that's all I had. >> Thank you, Mr. Peters. >> Nothing, Madam Chair. >> Any additional questions for Mr. Bordon? Oh, Gina, Mr. Jumalo,
>> I just want to once again clarify the variances. So, Ian, if you if that child lifeline over the door sign is 50 square feet, then you really in reality only need a variance for two additional signs because we're breaking it down by individual signs, not your total square
footage. >> I if that's the way you want to phrase it. Yes. I I mean I guess that would be up to the preference of the board on how to receive that. >> I look at it as total signage area. The ordinance limits the total sign area because it's a single tenant to 80 square feet and we're proposing 300
>> and we're proposing three. >> Guess that would be up to how the board wants to receive that. But as long as it's specified in the resolution, Gene, how how we broke down that whether it be by total sign area or two additional wall signs at x amount of square feet because the wall signs are are still >> It's both.
>> It's both. He's asking for three signs where one's permitted. He's asking for 300 square feet where 80 square feet is permitted. All the other testimony about you could have 10. It doesn't matter. The application's for one tenant. He's entitled to one sign. He's asking for
three. He's entitled to 80 square feet. He's asking for 300. Those are the two variance reliefs as it relates to the wall sign. >> Thank you, Mr. Peters. So just to clarify for everybody so we're all on the same page as regarding the the freestanding sign um they are
requesting a variance for the sign area and for the changeable copy on the portion of the sign that's changeable copy I believe Mr. Bordon said 67 >> 63 >> 63 sorry and regarding the wall signs as Mr. Peter said they are requesting a variance for three signs where one is
permitted and they're requesting a variance for the square foot. 80 square feet is permitted and they're requesting 300 square feet. Is that clear? >> Yeah. Okay. >> And um if we go to a vote, I uh will go over the list of conditions I have to
make sure that we're catching them all. >> Thank you. Any additional questions, Mr. Bordon, before I open it to the public? Okay, I'm going to open this to public session. Anyone wishing to come forward at this time to discuss what's been testified to this evening, please do so.
>> There's there's a question there. There's a qu There could be questions for Mr. Bordon and then there's public comment. >> So, this is questions for what the testimony you just had for their professional. >> Thank you. I appreciate you guys. >> Excuse me one second. You're going to need to raise your right hand if it's warning.
>> Okay. So, hold one second. So my understanding is you're saying sir that you don't have questions. So just if you'll just >> I have concerns. I have questions. I could ask questions if you'd like me to ask questions. >> I >> I want to make sure I'm abiding by the rules properly. >> All right. You know what? So what we'll
do then if with the permission of the chair, we'll take this as uh both your public comment and your opportunity to question the witness. >> I appreciate that. >> All right. And now if you could raise your right hand, please. Uh, do you swear that the testimony you'll give before this board will be the truth and
nothing but the truth? >> Absolutely. >> And please could you give your name and address for the record? >> Sure. My name is Adam. I live in Jackson, New Jersey. >> Could uh could you speak into the microphone? >> My apologies, sir. My name is Adam Heidi and I live in Jackson, New Jersey.
Uh, so my question is, have any letters of intents been done on this property from the very beginning? Did we delineate any pineland uh wetlands buffer zones uh and furthermore
ensure that we didn't build on a conservation overlay? >> Yeah, sir. If I may, just to to make it clear, this is not the site plan application. The questions that you're asking sort of go to when. So, this building is approved. Their site plan is approved. This is now only their request
for variance about the signs. That's why you've been hearing so much talk about the signs tonight. >> Surely. Surely. Now, where you plan to put this sign is within that 4.8 or 4.3 acres, correct? It's within that property. >> Yes. >> Awesome. Now, within that property, did you
perform or submit any letters of intent? >> So, this let >> So, this application, Mr. Heidi, was approved back in 2005. So all that was um handled under that original application and that original resolution compliance. Okay. They're back here now,
believe it or not, 20 years later um to get a variance for the sign. >> Okay. So those are my questions. Uh would you like would you like my would you like my comments? I I I would prefer not to be interrupted. >> Certainly if you if you want to make comments. My concern is I I went on our
SDL portal and I'm not finding any any applications, inspections, letter of intents, environmental impact statements uh relative to that property, even though there's properties few blocks over uh that were mandated to submit those kind of things. That's my concern.
>> Yeah, I'm sorry. >> I'm not seeing any delineation of uh buffer zones. Um it's it's right next to a plot of conservation overlay that our town uh designated. So, I'm just concerned why we can't find any environmental impact statements, anything relative to the environment,
species inventories. >> So, you said I'm sorry. Sorry. And and I I I'm having a little bit of trouble hearing you, but so bear with me. So, you're saying that you made a request to examine the file from 2005, >> the entire property active currently.
Everything that's currently uh pertaining to 90 this property there there's nothing relative to the environment which they would have to formally submitted based on the square feet of the property storm water management our own local ordinance
over 20,000 ft square foot I'm not finding a single documentation relative to these forms that would have to be uh yeah >> submitted that's my concern >> I can't yeah let me just clarify for you uh so Currently, there's a site out
there called SDL, right, which has uh you put in an address and it gives you all the applications that supposedly ever been made. Supposedly, >> this property has how far back it goes to your point, 2005 or not. Uh maybe you might answer. And so what he's saying,
he he the council had informed him, hey, you can go there, check it out. It looks great. So he did that and he didn't find any >> within the 77 uploads within the 77 attachments that were uploaded to that property, not a single one was relative to the environment. Uh and based on our
local ordinance over 20,000 square footage, you would have to submit a letter of intent to delineate make sure it's not uh within the Pineland region, within a wetland region, a buffer zone. The square footage itself would require a storm water management report. That's
our own local ordinance and New Jersey law. So, uh, the information that is legally mandated is either not being executed or it's >> So, that's that's my concern. >> Yeah. Or it wasn't uploaded onto that
site. So, so yeah, go ahead, please. >> Hi, Adam. Thank you for coming and bringing that to our attention. That is something when it especially when it comes to um an application that's been before the board. We are behind in the times and not everything is scanned appropriately up on the website. So we apologize for that. If you notice the
bottom of our agenda and for every meeting agenda, we always say if you would like to take a formal look at any of our of our documentation, make an appointment with Dawn. We can bring you in for that. Is that something you've done thus far? You've sat down, you've looked through there only because it's since 2005. So >> Oh, absolutely. >> Yeah. Not everything has been uploaded.
I I submitted a note request for all of these environmental reports. Okay. So, we'll see you in one week or I guess six days, right? >> Okay. Not a problem. Yeah. Listen, again, again, I just want wanted to keep you a breast of that because I do work in the office every day. So, I know that um people do make appointments with Dawn constantly to come in and they look
through files and um some of them are rather large. So, instead of just making copies and sending them to people, as you know, you pay for each copy on an open request, we always ask people to come in. We'll give you sticky notes, you flag, whatever you want to make a copy of or you want us to scan and email you. we can go through it that way. So just just to be um
>> can can you guys confidently uh answer me that you've performed all these things? >> Yes, I'd be happy to. Yes, I did the site plan in 2005. I also did the site plan for Jackson Green Apartments behind the property. The properties were all part of the same tract at one time. >> Also, when's the last time you disturbed
land? >> Sir, you asked Mr. Bordon a question. Please let him answer. >> My apologies, sir. All of the checklist items were submitted to the planning board in 2005, including environmental impact statement, storm water management was addressed. Everything was addressed. There were no waiverss granted by the planning board. There were no variances
granted by the planning board. This site was a fully conforming project in the highway commercial zone. Every single report required by the ordinance was submitted and is part of the file. I'm sure it was all done in 2005. >> May I respond? May I ask you a question again, sir?
>> Of course. >> Awesome. Um you say 2005 was that the last time any of these impact statements have been done? >> Yes. >> Awesome. And then uh in 2005 was the acreage uh standin the same as now? >> Yes. >> No further land has been cleared or
disturbed? >> No. >> Okay. But you you do can you can confirm that no other impact statement has been executed since 20 years ago? >> Yes. >> Thank you. Does that see Oh my god. Awesome. Okay. Thank you very much. Thank you.
>> Thank you. >> Yeah. Let let me just say for anybody else who um because I went on that site as well. I thought it does need to be updated. >> It's a work in progress. >> It's a work in progress. It's a lot of data that needs to be uploaded. So, you know, for anybody who does look at it,
just because it's not there doesn't mean it doesn't exist. It's a work in progress as you said. So, >> yeah. Just another commentary. We currently are looking at third party scanning um companies to to do that work and get it up to date. >> Sir, you had the opportunity for public
comment. Why don't you make your request and we'll take things from there. >> Any additional questions or comments for Mr. Warden for the applicant? Anyone else in the public wishing to come forward regarding the testimony we've heard this evening regarding this
application? >> Seeing no one else come forward, I'm going to go ahead and close public session. Mr. Bordon, do you have any closing statement or are you good? >> Uh, no, I think we're fine. Thank you. >> I figured as much, but okay. Board, it's
up to us for discussion. >> All right. Just um to re review what I have currently as conditions for um the freestanding sign. It would be a changeable sign um not animated. Um it's
140 square feet including both sides of the freestanding sign. Um the address must be on the sign. Um it was agreed that it would be uh relocated and it would be raised. It will remain a total of 16 feet. It'll be raised 5.5 feet
with landscaping around it. There will be seven placards, donor placards on the freestanding sign. Um the sign will be dimmed at night but not turned off. That was the testimony on uh response to that question. Um it will be changed no
more than twice a day. H once. Okay. Things have gotten better since last time we were here. once a day. Um, and for the wall sign, um, it would be a total of a variance
needed because it's would be a total of 300 square feet of wall signage where 80 square feet is permitted. 300 square feet is for all three signs together will be 50 square feet for the owner. The high lifeline sign and 125 square
feet a piece for the two donor sides mounted on the wall of the building. Um and there would be another variance because that would be a total of three signs instead of one as permitted by the ordinance. >> I'm sorry.
>> Yes. And that signage includes the logo as well as the words. So that's 50 square feet for the High Lifeline, 125 square feet a piece for the two donor signs to include both words and logos. Um and there was a request for a design
waiver um to have be permitted on the changeable sign to have more than four colors. Okay, so those are are the conditions that I have. I don't know if there are additional conditions. Um, but I thought that might be helpful as we begin discussion.
>> Thank you, Mr. Bri. >> Comment, Dr. Austin. >> I think everything is included in what Mr. Briani stated and nobody else has any comments to make. I would make a motion to approve.
>> I second it. >> And I would just like to >> Oh, yeah. Sorry. Who Who was that the second? I >> J. just to go with the one. >> Okay. >> And I just want to say thank you. I think you addressed every single comment we had last time. We're very clear and
um I we appreciate that. Thank you. >> Be nice, Mr. Bordon. So, we have a motion in the second on the floor. Roll call, please. >> Mr. Heyman. >> Yes. >> Mr. Mr. Martins, >> Miss Rosal, >> yes.
>> Mr. Saj, >> yes. >> Dr. Hoffstein, >> yes. >> Miss Bradley, >> yes. >> Congratulations. >> Thank you so much. Appreciate it. [Music] We are now going to move on to applicant number two, Earl Investments LLC,
looking for a time extension for preliminary and final site plan 857-2 with minor subdivision and administrative approval. >> Sorry about that. Vincent Delicio of RC Shane Associates. I'm here on behalf of the applicant. Um
so we were before the board back in uh 2023 for the original site plan approved uh the property as a contracted warehouse with an office use. Uh there was an subsequent amendment to that uh which was granted in July of 2024. Uh it
was a a fairly dimminimous change. was just about the surface area of the office versus the uh warehouse use. Uh that approval expires in um July 17th of 2026. We're here asking for an extension of time uh to give us some time to go
about getting the outside agency approvals completed. Uh specifically, we're working on getting Pinelands. There's um they're working with us. We just haven't received it yet. Okay. So, is that the only um outside agency you're waiting approval on?
>> Yes. >> But just for the record, you say that everything's already been submitted. You're in the process of working with them. >> Yes, that's correct. >> Did they give you any estimate of when they're going to bring up your case? My experience with them
>> anyway, >> um >> just curious. They they did not I know we I believe we we had a hearing scheduled that got carried. Um I I know our engineer is in talks with them. It's >> seems like we're we're in good shape. I have no reason to believe that this is
going to drag on forever. It's my lands. >> It would be this year. >> Uh >> I I that would be a guess for me to say that. I'm not sure. >> Okay. Any additional questions, comments?
>> It would be one year extension. >> Were there any other extensions prior to this one? >> Um, I believe this is the first extension. The the current the approval uh that we got was in um July. It was July of 2024.
So that one expires in 2026. We're looking for the extension to 2027. >> So our our current our current one is still good until July of next year. We're, you know, just being proactive about this. >> I I I don't recall how many extensions
or what the time length is. I think Mr. Pet has had mentioned once before. Normally with um site plan approval, you get two years. You can ask for three one-year extensions under preliminary. Under final, I think it's the other way around, three years and two one-year
extensions. I could have it backwards, but in total, they're entitled to five years of protection. So, if they're entitled to two years because they got preliminary and final at the same time, they're entitled to three one-year extensions.
The applicant does have the burden to prove to the reasonable satisfaction of the board that they were barred either directly or indirectly from obtaining outside agency approvals and they need to prove to the board satisfaction that they deal they diligently pursued those
approvals. So while learned counsel is here um we don't have a witness to say what the status of the applications are other than they're pending. Um, so I don't doubt that the information that's been given to the board
is not correct. Um, and I think any of us who has served on a board understands that sometimes Pinelands or Caffer can take their sweet time that >> if the board is looking for more direct information than the applicant's
attorney can provide, you'd have to carry the application and get more information from the file or from the engineer. But on balance, they're entitled to a total of five years of protection from zone changes simply by showing us that they've applied for all the outside agency
approvals that are pending. If they simply sat on the application for four and a half years and then came back in and said, "We have a problem. It's going to take nine months." Well, that's we're going to have a hearing then. They're here quite frankly a year in advance of
when they need the application, the extension of the approval, asking for that now so that they don't have to do it next year. >> Okay. And and I assume you have a paper trail of all of this to
>> uh Yes. And and certainly um you know I I can represent all this to you. Uh if if you require us to bring the engineer in and have him present testimony, we're more than happy to do that. Um but >> yeah,
>> that's what I will do. >> We'd be happy to do that. Yes. >> Okay. Thank you, >> Mr. Rumar. Any comments? >> Only just to confirm. Uh I agree with the applicants attorney's uh dates that he's uh put on the record. They appear
to be accurate. Any comments, questions for the attorney? Okay. Mr. Peters, anything else? Um, I'm going to go ahead and open this
to public session. Anyone wishing to come forward at this time about the testimony you've heard this evening? >> Yeah, they haven't heard any testimony. >> Well, right. You're right. So, we're going to go ahead and close public session board. It's up to us.
They're asking for an extension because they're waiting for uh Highland approval. Their term will end in 2026. They're asking for an extension till July of 2027. >> I'm sorry. I I I just if you could just
make clear to me, I certainly understood that you're trying to be proactive, but your belief is that you will not have Pineland's approval by July 17th, 2026. >> Uh that uh that appears to be the case. Yes. I think they're just trying to be
proactive on this because I don't know. I I'm I'm sure you have too. I've I've been through some horror stories with Pinelands personally. I know certainly my office has. So really, I think this is just an effort to be proactive here. So we're not coming in at the 11th hour asking for this.
>> Well, I think particularly there's a new master plan coming out. I think he wants to cover himself on that too. Understandable. Uh but just just one thing you said you do have an extension till July 26. So the
master plan is going to come out before July 26th. So it's not for that re I think not for that reason why you're asking for an extension to 27th. >> If they make any changes to this property he wants to be grandfathered
in. So uh I don't blame him for for coming in. >> Okay. Yeah. I'm just Yeah. because I I do agree with you with Pinelands. Um it would be great if we had something from Peland saying, "Look, yeah, we're back. >> You're never going to get anything from Pine Land,
>> right? We're back." >> I I'll I'll speak not just for the applicant, but like the Lorax speaking for everybody, >> right? >> You're never going to get pilots to tell you when they're going to act for sure. >> Right. Okay. And just so the board's clear, >> the applicant can ask for the extensions
in advance. They can also ask for them proactively. They could come back here on day on year four, day 365 and say, "We'd like to ask for three one-year extensions because we've been working diligently to obtain these and we expect them in the next 30 days." So,
we need a 29-day extension after 5 years. They're entitled under the my reading of the land use law to do that as well. So, I don't want the board to get hung up on why are they asking for one or not two or why are they asking for it now. It's their choice to ask for
it. It's also their responsibility to give the board information to prove the requirements for the time extension, which I believe the applicant's attorney has done and has welcome to the board to get something in writing from the applicant's engineer indicating the
status of submissions of outside agency approvals. >> Mr. Roar. >> Yeah, excuse me. Just as part of the record, the applicant submitted a a January 2025 letter from the New Jersey Pinelands stating that there's there was
just concerns with the design of the stormwater management. So, it appears that there's there is still engineering u concerns that are being addressed. >> Thank you. >> We didn't have any public testimony, but if you'd like to come up and make comments, please feel free to do so at
this time. And sir, you were sworn previously. Um, so you remain under oath, but if you could state your name again for the record. >> Surely my name is Adam Heidi. I live in Jackson, New Jersey. Uh, in similar vein, I just I my concerns are that uh
especially if we're dealing with the potential Pineland zone. Uh, have have any inventories of the wildlife been done, the font, the flora? >> Can you are you can are you confident? I think it's uh unfortunate this evening that you're coming on these applications
that are on these very discreet issues because these things that you're talking about would have been done at the time of the original application >> and if they weren't done it would make all the progress unethical and in violation of the law. That's that's why I'm speaking. I'm not
I'm not I understand that that is your >> So my question is can you confirm that whatever you're building you guys have done a letter of intent you've inventoried the species on property >> I mean to my knowledge we've complied with whatever we had to comply with this
is back uh this is back in I gave you the date it's 2023 was the original resolution so certainly if you want to look at any of the documents ments from April 19th of 2023 was when the the whole original uh
application was was made and approved and everything would have been presented at that time. Since then, we've been working on compliance. >> Okay. And then and if you guys do get approved and you plan to disturb land, will you guys submit another ecological impact statement uh relative to the 700
days that have passed? >> Okay. So, this this is again this isn't a request. It's for a very specific thing. It's a request for an administrative approval to extend the approval time um while it's in Pinelands. So certainly as with the
prior one, you have every uh opportunity and right to look at the underlying application and Pinelands is also uh applications are also available through uh that place. >> Awesome. I'm just I'm just asking questions. >> Thank you.
Thank you. >> Anyone else from the public wish to come forward and make comment? Seeing no one else come forward, we're going to go ahead and close public session. Board, it's up to us. >> I'll second a motion. >> We have a motion in the second. >> It's a motion to approve.
>> Motion to approve. >> Let's with Dr. >> with a condition. >> We have a motion and a second. Yep. >> Roll call, please. >> Mr. Heyman. >> Yes. >> Mr. Martins. >> Yes. >> Miss Rosal. >> Yes. >> Mr. Sut. >> Yes. >> Dr. Hoffsy.
>> Yes. >> Miss. Bradley. >> Yes. >> Thank you. >> Thank you very much. >> Strangely. >> All right. We're going to go ahead and move on to um applicant number four. I believe it's Valerano Group LLC, Enzo's
Restaurant Preliminary and Final Site Plan 938 with use variances 3525. Mr. Alfiri, good evening, Madam Chair, members of board. Salvatore Alfi, Clearary G, Kobe Alfur, and Jacobs. On behalf of the applicant,
um we're here tonight for approval, both use variance and site plan approval for multiple uses on one lot. Um no, we have three witnesses to present. Mr.
McFarland is going to be our engineer and planner. Scott Kennel is our traffic expert. And then we have the applicant himself present. Um not in that order, but those are the three witnesses we're going to have. I'm just waiting for Grant to pass out the exhibit so we can have him sworn in.
[Music] >> Another microphone. Okay, Mr. McFarland, we're going to have you sworn in. >> Um, do you swear or affirm that the truth testimony you will give before this board will be the truth and nothing but the truth? >> I do.
>> And could you please state your name and credentials for the record? >> Uh, sure. Graham McFarland, professional engineer, professional planner, principal of professional design services. Uh, previously qualified and testified before this board a few times. >> We'd request that his qualifications be
accepted. Engineering and planning. Madam Chair, >> we do accept his credentials. >> Thank you. And Mr. McFarland, you and your office prepared the plan that was submitted in support of this application. >> Yes, we did. >> All right. Would you describe I guess orient the board as to where this property is located and we should
identify Did you pre-mark these exhibits? >> Yes, I did. >> Okay. >> Yeah. So, you can see that we have an aerial up on a screen which we identified as as exhibit number one. Again, that shows an aerial view of the subject property outlined in yellow. Uh the property has frontage on West
Commodore Boulevard. Uh at the front of the site is the existing Enzo's restaurant uh pizza and Italian restaurant that's been on a premises for uh for quite some time. Um in the back of the site there are uh two other
buildings. There's a uh a warehouse. There's a garage building on the uh bottom side of the property. And there is an exist what was a previously a house that we're asking to convert to uh part of the shed um the shed sales
business. Uh this map again it shows the uh it shows the total property uh which has a land area of about 8 I think it's about 8.4 acres. You can see that the property is encumbered by both freshwater wetlands and by category 1
riparian buffer. Uh this photo was taken only a couple months ago. So it does does pretty much show the current conditions of the site where you can see some of the activities that have been occurring on site. Uh again, you can see that the uh the restaurant is located up
at the front of the site near West Commodore with uh two driveways into the site. There is a drive aisle that leads back to the rear portion of the site. Comes comes right through here. You can see that's the existing uh I'm going to call it an existing garage. It actually
was approved by the zoning board in n in as far back as 1972 with the variance to act as a uh as a warehouse for tomato for tomato um storage and then it was also subsequently approved for some retail sales from that same building uh quite a
few years later but that hasn't occurred at that location for for quite some time. Uh you can you can see the existing the existing build uh you know formerly a house the existing building that we're seeking to convert to the
office for the uh shed. Uh you know we originally called it a shed but I think more properly we should call it you know shed and prefab building sales. Uh some of these units here for display are standard sheds 6x8 8x 10 x 12. Uh, but
there are also some larger prefab buildings. I mean, there there's one unit there, uh, for sale right now, which is a twocar garage with some extra living space in it. The thing is is probably, I don't know, close close to a thousand square feet, but they're all, uh, prefab buildings completed. That is
what the, you know, again, I'm going to stick to the shed/prefab building. uh they're they're finished units that would be uh you know sold from premises, delivered to a to a homeowner and then you know put on put on their property. Uh you can also see that there is some
uh parking that that is occurring on this bottom portion of the site. Uh and then there is a another component which is um some landscape business. There's some storage of some landscaping materials and supplies that's occurring in this portion of the site. There are a
couple of uh I think it's either two or three rolloff dumpsters where there are some materials again that have been obtained from the from the landscapers business that are stored in those containers and then then disposed of um periodically. And then in the back
portion of the site, you can certainly see on on this on this map, there is some uh landscape, you know, some nursery stock that is being stored in this portion of the site. So, it's important to point that out because when when uh we prepared this plan, it the
documents we submitted to the board were a little bit different than what I'm showing you here showing you here tonight. So, I wanted to go through that and just make clear that we are um asking for the approvals for everything that's occurring on the site as it is
today. Um Anthony, if you can go to the next >> Wait, before you move off that, can you just identify the different colored lines so the board understands what they represent? >> Sure. The yellow is the property boundary. Uh this arked teal line is the category category one riparian buffer.
So everything to the right of that is within the riparian buffer. Uh the dark blue line is the wetlands line that has been delineated. And then the the uh the other teal line that follows the
wetlands line uh would be the the buffer associated with the wetlands. So again there there are about 8.4 acres uh in this entire property and there are about four acres of the property which are not encumbered by the wetlands or by
the riparian buffalo. Anthony go to 82 or next exhibit form exhibit two please. Let's see. Yes. So, this this is just the uh again this is just a cover sheet showing the location of the property. Uh it does show the the zoning map in the uh in the
upper leftand corner which does show the property is in the uh is in the LC zone and the property is bounded by other commercially zoned properties and most importantly um the adjoining zones do not allow for residential development.
That's important because your ordinance specifically requires buffering for properties that that adjoin lands that are zoned for residential use. So this application by ordinance does not have any need for any specific buffering. Uh
go to the next exhibit please Anthony. This is uh exhibit three which is uh this is an updated variance plan for the application. As I spoke a few minutes ago there have been some uh some revisions to this plan from what was
originally submitted to the board. um just for clarification as to uh what has been going on at on at the site and what we're really asking for tonight. And really there are uh there are three there are three changes. When we
originally submitted the application, we were seeking the lease parking up here. Uh we are still asking for that area to be used as lease park and we identified that as a lease parking area number one. We've also identified a second lease parking area. So I've identified that as
least parking area number two that was not on the original plan that that we had submitted. Uh then there are two components associated with the landscape business. Again there's a small area here. I think it's about 5,000 square feet or so uh in which there are a
couple of rolloff containers and there there I think I think right now there's um three stock piles of sand stone and maybe some mulch in that in that area. They're not very big stock piles. They would be limited to 10 feet in accordance with or ordinance requirements, but you know, there is a
uh is a need or request to be able to store those materials on site as well. And then the landscape nursery stock is occurring in this back portion of the site. And again, when we prepared this plan originally a couple years ago, that was not occurring on the site. when uh
you know Sal and I met with our client last week, we went over all this stuff and decided it's better to to present present this to the board, be upfront with it, talk about it all and uh and see where see where we go. Uh so again the application itself is to
uh retain retain the restaurant building is to convert this existing you know I'm going to call it an existing garage right now to a to a warehouse building uh with as many as four tenants. So it would be a a small multi-tenant
warehouse building. I think it's um right about 3,000 or just under 3,000 square feet uh for that particular build. about 2600 square feet for that particular building. Uh the site by uh in in total by our analysis would
require 48 parking spaces for the restaurant, warehouse, uh sales office for the uh for for the shed business. Uh right now what we have proposed on the site is 44 parking spaces. I'm sorry. I
think I said what? Uh 50. Let me get the number right. I think I missed. We got uh 56 56 parking spaces are required for the application by uh by ordinance and we have 44 that are proposed right
now. The restaurant in and of itself is 2400 square feet. By ordinance requirements of one per 50 square feet, the restaurant would require 48 parking spaces. by by ordinance. Uh the current
restaurant has a uh has a peak um peak employee usage of about 12 employees on any any given time. The restaurant has we went over this the other day. How many seats? I didn't write that
down. I think the restaurant has uh and Pasquali is going to correct me if I'm wrong. I think the restaurant has around 40 seats in it. Um, which again would really create a demand of of around 12
parking spaces. Um, employees do park in a gravel parking area over here. That is uh that is very clear and managed managed by Mr. Fzerano. So there are six employee parking spaces here. So employees do park there and here and
then patrons and visitors use the rest of the parking spaces. and he's been operating this business for a long time which he's going to give some testimony and uh we believe that there's more than adequate parking proposed to service to service the uh the proposed project in
in total. We are also proposing to uh to move the refuge enclosure for the uh for the restaurant. Um right now it's up in a front here. Uh it's ahead of the building which is not in compliance with ordinance requirements. So, we are we
are proposing to move the dumpster and put a new CMU CMU enclosure. Uh, it is closer to the property line than permitted by ordinance, but I think it is sensible given all of the particulars in this application uh to move it back behind the building and at least get it out of the view from the uh from from
the public road. Uh we also have added to this plan a dumpster, one dumpster here that would service both the the uh the shed office use which would generate minim you know minimal minimal um solid waste and the warehouse. So, we do
propose one dumpster here that would service both of those uses uh in the in the back of the uh of the property. In addition to the uh to the use variance, which I'll I'll come back to later after we get some other testimony
from uh Mr. Kennel and Mr. Faerano, there are some bulk variances required for the uh for the application. I think I could go through those now and then we'll we'll come back to the to the planning testimony on the uh on the use variance. So I did um did go through Mr.
Peter's letter which was which was you know very very thorough and identified um and brought and brought questions you know the need for some bulk variances uh reviewed the plans again and I have determined that in my opinion there are
a total of seven bulk variances that are required or requested for the application. Uh some of them are existing conditions. Uh I I believe a couple of them were actually um were actually approved when this when the site plan for this was approved back in uh back in like 20067 when it was
originally approved. But just to run through those that are existing conditions. One is the uh the lot frontage on on West Fish Road. This lot actually goes all the way back to all the way back to West Fish Road way down here and has a 20 frontage of 25 ft
which is not in accordance with ordinance but that's an existing condition. uh parking setback from the rightway. Again, this parking lot has existed here for for 20 years uh in in in accordance with our prior approval. So, that's an existing condition. Uh
parking Ernie identified um parking from residential as 11 ft proposed and 20 ft required. Um I wasn't sure where that was uh where that was identified as we don't adjoin any residential zones. you know would do a joint or residential use
and uh but if only felt that variance was uh required we would just uh just ask for that and then parking from uh non-residential uh 9 ft proposed where 10 feet is required and I think that happens at uh I think that happens at this this corner
if I'm if I'm correct but again that's an existing condition that we're not we're not altering >> I'm sorry for I I see you're reading from Ernie's um report. Um, and I'm trying to follow. So, you know how he has numbers in front of it? Would you
mind just going on his Is that possible? I'm trying to figure out which one comment you're referring to on on his report. >> Yes. >> So, you're on page you're on page six. >> Uh, seven.
>> Page seven. Yeah. Page seven. Number six. >> I'll start on I'll start on the bottom of page six. Mr. Peter's point on item number two. >> Yep. >> West Fist Road 25T front footage. >> Yeah, I think >> talked about that one. >> Right. And I think you're up to >> item number three. >> Okay. >> Uh Miss Ernie pointed out the maximum
height of an accessory structure um about the existing single family dwelling. My opinion is that that single family dwelling to be converted to an office is not an accessory structure. It's certainly not accessory to the restaurant business. I think it would be a separate principal building. So I
don't believe the accessory structure height would apply to that particular building. Um again because that that shed use is not accessory to the restaurant use. So I do not believe that isn't defined as an accessory structure. Uh item number four uh parking area set
back from the rightway is 20 where 11 12 ft is existing. That would be the parking at the front of the site along West Commodore. Uh item number five parking area setback from a residential property. Uh Ernie pointed out lot 14.
Lot 14. Where the heck is lot 14? Lot 14 is uh and Ernie free to jump in if I'm not correct. >> Lot 14 is
>> lot 14 is the this one is what I'm picking up on a tax man. So, I'm not sure what if that lot 14 is the correct designation Ernie or if you picked up something something different.
>> Down here. >> Okay. But again, lot lot 14 um based on a tax map is showing weight. I think it's I think it's this lot. I can't read or that lot. >> Best I can tell. Right. But those lots to me are look
like they're they're way back here. This is uh this is lot 20 up here. And this is lot this is lot 19. So anyway, I had a little trouble following which lot was really being
questioned to be to be honest. Um but if Mr. Peters feels that variance is necessary. We're just going to ask for the relief because I don't think it's of any great significance. Uh item number six, minimum parking minimum parking area separate from a
residential park is 10 ft from adjacent lot 23. That's easier. Lot 23 is existing lot up here. So there is a parking area that is 9 ft or so from the property line. Again, that's an existing condition.
Uh item seven, number of parking spaces, which I spoke about. Item eight, ADA requirements. One accessible space is required. The restaurant does have one accessible space. Uh and then item nine, parking requirements for a warehouse. Um, our
plan does tabulate that for the warehouse, I believe that there are six parking spaces required, one per 1500 square feet, plus I allowed for one space per each per each business, which would be four. So, that gave 2 plus four a total of six. So, we came up with six
parking spaces for the uh for the warehouse. So, that's walking through those items uh 1 through nine that Mr. Peters had outlined in his in his report. Then in addition to uh the variant the bulk variances and I I would stipulate
that all of those bulk variances meet the criteria of either a C1 or a C2 where uh they all qualify either as hardship because their existing conditions that uh were constructed in accordance with a prior approval uh andor the benefits of granting them any of these any of those variances
outweighs any detriment as they're all you know to me they're very insignificant and dimminimous in nature. Uh then there are also a uh several design waiverss that are uh requested and again I comb through Mr. Mr. Peter's letter and went through our plans again
and I came up with uh just trying to um make it a kind of a little simpler. I I came up with seven design waiverss that are uh requested with the application. Uh one is that the ordinance requires paving of service roads, driveways and
storage areas. Uh and of course for this application we are not proposing to pave the uh service roads, driveways and storage areas. The existing paving ends right right about here. And then the back of the site right now there's some
compacted gravel that has been installed to allow for safe ingress and egress and use of the property that that has been um you know does get properly maintained by by the applicant and is kept in in good condition. Uh so we're asking for
that that waiver of not having to uh provide all of that that pavement. Uh next item is curbing curbing around islands and parking areas not proposed. Uh again your ordinance does require curbing around all of the parking area perimeters and islands. And there are
portions there there is some curbing up front but there are portions of the parking areas and portions of the these proposed parking areas where we are not proposing any any curbing uh based upon the um you know the operation of the
restaurant for many years uh works works suitably as it exists today and the low inensity use for the other new uses on site. We're asking for that waiver. uh ordinance limits the number of driveway um ingress egress points to not
more than one two-way access drives. Uh there are two proposed uh the driveways that exist on the site were constructed in accordance with the uh prior site plan approval. Uh they're also consistent with uh county uh county approval. We did submit this application
to OSHA County Planning Board and they did not have any comments. they actually approve the application um as as with the current condition. Uh next waiver would be sidewalk along the site funed. We are not proposing sidewalk here. Uh
of course we understand that that decision is really up to the board and if the sidewalk is not proposed the uh contribution would have to be made to the pedestrian safety fund in accordance with ordinance requirements. Uh next waiver would be for sight lighting. Of course your ordinance requires sight
lighting throughout all parking areas. We're uh not looking to propose uh the site lighting throughout this um throughout this property. There is adequate site lighting that serves restaurant use right now. There will be uh building mounted lights for
each of the uh each of the buildings to be converted to either office or warehouse use. We're not proposing any uh any additional lighting in the back of the property for the shed or for the warehouse use. We just don't think they're necessary for these uh for these two uses.
Uh item six, the six waiver would be um landscaping around the uh the refuge containers. Uh given the location of the refuge enclosures, um I don't think landscaping is of any real great benefit uh on this particular application. So
we're asking for the waiver from that. And the last one would be the u proximity of the refuge enclosure for the restaurant to the property line. We're proposing it 2 feet from the property line at this this corner here.
And again, that's moving it that's moving it out of the front yard back to an area behind a building which is going to be less visible from the street. So, I think that that benefits the application. Uh, but again, I think that that is a design waiver that is that is required.
Um, you want me to go through? >> Well, yeah, there there are two professional reports that were issued. Obviously the board engineer and planner and and not touching on the devarian relief just yet. Um are there any technical comments contained within these reports that you need to discuss
or or can you agree to comply with them? >> Yeah, just to Mr. Roi's um Mr. Roier's letter, he does he does point out um in his letter that he believes storm order management will be required for the application. Um unfortunately I think I have to agree with him as I reviewed
this a little bit a little bit closer. So um we will agree to provide stormwater management uh that would be required for the application um if it if it meets the criteria for major development which um I think it I think it's going to I think it's going to be close but I think it's going to so we
can uh hopefully just work out those details with with Mark as you know engineer to engineer uh matters. Uh as to Mr. Mr. Peter's letter. I did go through a lot of his points already. I'm sure he may have a couple of couple of questions and and I'm going to come back
for the uh for the detailed planning testimony after the other guys speak. >> Okay. And just another followup um as it relates to the wetlands. You um you said they've been delineated, but we do not have an LOI yet. Correct. >> Correct. We do not yet have an LOI. They were delineated by by Brian Dubo. Uh
we've surveyed them, field located, you know, field located them. So, uh, what's shown on the plan is accurate to what have Brian had delineated, but we do not yet have the LOI. >> And if the board were to grant this approval would be conditioned upon an OOI being granted consistent with the lines that you're proposing and then can you just summarize, you
mentioned Ocean County Planning Board approval. What other outside agency approvals other than obviously the D for the LOI that would be required? >> Uh, I think I think that would be it. Um, if I'm gonna if I'm going to have to introduce stormwater management, we'll have to go through Ocean County uh soil
conservation district and get their approval. Uh, but I think uh I think that would be it. >> Okay, that includes this portion of Mr. McFarland's testimony. Madam Chair, >> any questions? Mr. McFarland,
>> just talking to the microphone wherever you decide to start. basic question, how many different businesses are they going to be on on this slide? >> Well, I'll uh I'll I'll speak to it to the best of my knowledge and maybe Mr.
Ferrero will uh will correct me if I'm if I'm wrong, but we have the restaurant business at the front of the site. Uh and then Mr. Fouserano or the the the LLC is going to is going to own the property and is going to lease portions of the site to the other I'll just call
them all you know the other businesses. So we're going to have the shed business. We're going to have the warehouse business which will be set up for uh as many as four you know small um small tenants. And then we have the uh
the landscaping >> the landscaping business. >> And what about the parking? Well, the and and and the parking which is going to be owned by the the Falserado group, >> but it's still a separate business. It has nothing to do with the restaurant. >> I'm going to defer to my attorney.
>> That's probably correct. But he's going to come up so he can give you more detail on all the businesses. >> It'll be in the next witness, the applicant. >> So, just counting on my fingers, I think that was five. >> Five, >> right? So, there are there are >> five types of uses. There are definitely
different uses. There are definitely different uses proposed on the uh on the site. I mean, that's of course why one of the reasons why we're I mean, the main reason why we're here is because the outside storage is not permitted in the uh in the in the zone.
The ordinance doesn't limit the number of uses that that could occur or the number of principal structures. >> Okay. Okay. So, if you could just you mentioned a couple times um existing conditions. Can you clarify what does
that mean? Existing condition. Was that an existing condition from an approval from what does that mean? An existing condition. >> Yeah, I think you're asking for me when I when I spoke about the uh the variances that were identified, right? We I went through the seven variances
and I believe that four of them I classified as as an existing condition which were the you know the lot frontage of West Fish, the parking from rightaway, parking from residential, parking from non-residential. Those were all uh they're either conditions of the
property that the applicant cannot rectify or they are improvements that were constructed as part of the prior approval that was obtained. So, uh, ordinance has changed over time. Zoning of this property has changed over
time. Some of the development standards change over time. Uh, when this application was originally approved in 2005 or six, frankly, I'm not sure if all those items were identified as variances at that time or not. But Mr.
Peters did his review and said, "Well, now we're guided by our current ordinance and based on current ordinance, these items don't meet the current standards. So, let's just be safe and say we need relief. We may need relief for these items. I >> mean, if they're pre-existing, then you
wouldn't need that relief, right? >> You could call them pre-existing conditions, but >> if they were approved prior, then it would >> uh my testimony is that what show what exists on this site plan in terms of where the parking area is, the driveways, the building location, all
those things, they were approved as part of a prior approval that was granted actually by by the planning board. So all the that it's tremendous lot that you have there that was cleared out, >> right? >> All those trees and all that lot area
was all approved. >> Well, if you cleared prior, >> if you go back and look at I looked at some older aerials today, uh I went back to as far as like the mid 90s and as far as I could tell, the property has been pretty much in this condition since
since at least then maybe Mr. Ferano has a little more history. >> So Mr. Simon, I just I I want to interrupt because you're having a dialogue about information that's not in evidence. So, if there's an old planning board approval, I don't think it's been submitted to this board officially. It
hasn't been reviewed by Mr. Roier or myself. If there are old aerials, again, I don't I don't doubt that any of what Mr. McFarland says is true and accurate. It's just not part of the record for us to reconcile during
the review of the application or your deliberations. So if the applicant wishes to rely upon that information, at some point he's going to have to give it to you. And again, Mr. Alfieri offered Mr. McFarland up sort of at the beginning to introduce
the project. I'm not sure he's given his use variance testimony yet. So I I I just I want to make sure we have a lot of questions. Anyone who's visited the site says, "Well, this isn't something we often see." >> Correct. >> You know, did it grow up this way? Is it did it sort of get a little bigger, got
a little smaller, got a little different? Um I want to make sure that as we go through these things, if the applicant wants you to rely on them, we should get them submitted so that they can be reviewed. >> Thank you. >> Yeah. And we have no issue submitting any of the items that Mr. McFarland
referred to tonight that have not been submitted. The the prior approval was actually provided to us. Mr. Porro pulled it and the board secretary sent it to us and I don't know who else she sent it to, but we have it. And as far as the aerials, we have not submitted the historic aerials um at all since
they were just recently reviewed. >> Right. And just by way of just by way of background, um when we reviewed that information, what what we saw was that in 1972, there was a zoning board uh approval to
allow tomatoes to be stored in the in the warehouse building, the one that we're talking about converting to uh to a multi-tenant. Uh in 1988, then there was reference to an approval for retail sales from that same warehouse building. So tomatoes were allowed to be stored there in 1972. Then in 1988 there was an
approval to allow sale retail sales to occur. And then in uh 2002 there was a variance and a site plan approved frankly which which my off my office did million years ago. Uh anybody who's been around town for a long time as long as me would remember it was originally known as
>> Nobody. Nobody. >> Dr. Hoffstein. No >> Knockout Pizza. >> Yes. Knockout Pizza with the Knock It with the with the uh Knockout Pizza and the video rentals. So, that was approved in 2002. And then I'm gonna leave it
there. Mr. Fanrano maybe can give a little bit of history from uh from there and tell you how long he's been involved in owning the property and what what happened since then. But the Knockout Pizza was approved there. Under that application, the site improvements for the restaurant were conducted. the two driveways of parking spaces and all that
stuff that I had talked about and those what may or may not have been I'm not certain variances for those parking area setbacks and things that I that I spoke about. >> And what one thing we didn't identify is the freestanding sign. Can you just show the board where that exists?
>> Yeah, Anthony, you could just go to uh the last exhibit which is some uh some photographs >> before we move away from this recitation of the prior resolutions. Um They have not been provided to the board. So, Mr. Alier, if you're gonna
Yes. If you could provide the resolutions as well as the aerials. >> No problem. >> Thank you. >> And then um on this exhibit, this is exhibit four. We just um took some some photographs of the uh the current condition of the site just, you know, in case board members didn't get a chance
to go there or whatnot. But you can see the first photo is looking at the site from uh from West Commodore. uh just shows the restaurant building and and some of the parking that is uh that is in front of the in front of the premises there. The uh the second photograph uh
shows a driveway leading to the rear of the site. Um you know, again, all those those activities occur way back in site. They're uh you know, when you're when you're driving past in the car, you certainly can't uh can't see those activities at all. if you, you know, if you pull into the site, of course, you
have a a little visibility of what's going on back there, but but very very uh very very limited. Uh the next photo just shows a portion of the uh of the shed display. And I think this uh this building I think this this unit right here is actually that twocar garage that
also has, you know, like some other living living space in it. And unfortunately, I didn't go get to go inside it, but it looked awesome. Um, in the next photo, this is the existing warehouse building. Again, that was originally previously approved for tomato sales, which we're looking to
make some improvements to and turn it into a a little a little multi-tenant uh warehouse. Next photo just shows the condition of the uh main drive aisle and some of the parking that occurs on uh on either side. Uh photo six is uh at the rear of
the site. That's some of the activities being done by the uh by the landscaper. Uh and then and then photo seven shows those those couple of small stockpile areas that the landscaper has, you know, has used for some some material storage.
Um again, that's not something that we had on the original application, but when we went through the site again last week, um it's evident that that's been that has been occurring. It's a very small portion of the site, so we figured we will talk about it, ask for it, and see what the board has to say about
that. >> Excuse me, Mr. McFarland. I I think this is giving me an opportunity to go back. When we talked about the number of uses uh either proposed or existing, um there was some reference to parking. This school bus, RV, boat situation, is that
the parking that was being referred to? >> Yeah, those vehicles right now are some of the vehicles that are being parked on the site. uh our our application is asking for the those two areas to be used for the parking of uh of vehicles
that are uh you know operational and properly registered. Uh no junk vehicles, anything that's nonoperate, you know, not anything that's going to be nonoperational. So every vehicle would have to be operational and properly registered. out.
>> I went there today and there are some vehicles that look like are not running and so I it looks like a junkyard. >> I can't uh I cannot disagree with that assessment. I had the same concern, but we spoke about that and Mr. Ferano
understands that and our application is only going to be for vehicles that are properly registered and operational. >> If there's anything members if if Mr. McFarland in his explanation is going to start talking about uses. Maybe we
should get the information and go through it because otherwise each of these there's going to be a question that the board members want to ask. I can sense it. What do you have an approval for and what don't you have an approval for? The things you don't have an approval for. Does that proof require
something more? Because we just sort of stuck it out there. It sort of grew into that. So, I just if we're going to keep going down that way, let's get the information on the record and let's talk about the existing pizza place, the house that turned into an office, the warehouse, the outdoor storage of
material from the landscaper, the two parking areas, the how they're leased, who they're leased to, what the lease is, because those are specific things. We sort of keep going around talking about generalities of the
site and we keep getting to the same place. You all have a lot of questions and we're not focusing on >> Yeah. And we we would like Mr. Falserano to come up and give you a lot more detail. Um he's the operator so he has the hours of operation, number of
employees, etc. How everything works. We we Graham's intent was to give you an overall view of what we're seeking generally. We'll give you more detail next. >> So you want Mr. McFarland to give the use variance testimony >> after no after everything he we need the
foundation laid to support any testimony he gives >> why don't we so so if if I'm sorry m so we have we come to the end of this section of >> yes we have >> all right So then let's see if there
questions from the board professional. >> Any questions, Mr. McFarland, on what we've heard so far? >> I'm sorry. >> Okay. Just want to make sure >> questions. >> All right. >> Right. >> Mr. Roar, Mr. Peters, anything? >> Yes. Just a couple of engineering
questions. Uh, this survey appears to be recent and dated as of last year. Can you just confirm what's shown on the survey accurately represents what's out there today with the exception of what you've mentioned? >> Well, it represents what was on the site when we surveyed it. So, it's it's
accurate to that date. >> Okay. And uh can you just speak a little more on the buffer areas and what is or is not permitted? What is currently within those areas and what is or is not permitted? >> Right. Um well the the local ordinance
requires buffering based upon uh square footage of buildings that are that are proposed and it also requires buffering where commercial uses but very specifically in town but properties zoned for residential use. Uh all adjoining properties here are none of
them are zoned for residential use. Now there are some single family homes on those properties but they're not zoned for residential use. So by um by definition of of your ordinance there is no buffer that is specifically required
>> besides that buffer for residential um the buffers pertaining to the wetlands or riparian. I see there's some improvements that are noted to be removed. >> Yes. So it looks like um some of the uh parking area had uh you know evolved
into what is really wetlands buffer. So we would propose to uh restrict those activities from occurring in any wetland buffers. >> And is the nursery use permitted within the riparian? >> Uh my opinion is yes because there there
is no grading or land disturbance proposed with those activities. So I don't believe that uh would be uh considered a regular a regulated activity by the D. >> Okay. And an outside agency approval would be required with that. Correct. >> Correct. >> Okay. And then would you be would you
offer any kind of uh recommendation on how the buffer areas could be physically delineated in the field just to ensure that uses don't creep into there in the future? >> Uh yes, we could certainly put some sort of uh permanent markers uh along the
wetland buffer so that uh again the the activities uh respect those wetland buffers and do not encroach into those areas. Uh, that's all I have at this time. >> Mr. McFarland, I have a question. I'm a little confused. You just said that you don't feel Mr. Roire asked about the
nursery area in the buffer. You said you don't feel that it disturbs or anything, but there appears to be a dumpster. I know you said you that that's going to be moved. It looks like piping. >> Well, he uh Well, I think Mark asked me asked me two questions. Um one question
we were kind of talking about the wetland buffer and then the second part we were talking about the um the category one riparian buffer. So they are regulated by different sections in the uh in in the state code by by D. Uh the riparian buffer regulations
they really aim to limit clearing of vegetation. Their primary goal is is to protect vegetation. Uh my opinion, my understanding is that uh somebody storing some uh you know landscape nursery stock in an area that um has
previously been cleared and not does not require any um grading or any land clearing is not a regulated activity. So I I don't believe it is it would be restricted. >> So excuse me. Hold on. I'm sorry, sir. Please don't yell out. I understand you
have strong feelings on those issues. Please do not yell out. >> So, of course, our our, you know, the application presented here relies on that on that fact and representation. Uh, if that turned out to be incorrect for some reason or somebody had a different interpretation and it was not
permissible or needed a permit, then the applicant would be obligated to to obtain that permit. My opinion is it's not a regulated activity does not require a permit. But again, if that is uh if somebody has a different interpretation uh and a permit
was necessary, the applicant would have to obtain that permit for that activity. >> So based on what's in photo number six on the display, you're stating that the trailer and that material even because it's a riparian buffer is allowed to be stored there like that. I believe it is
because it does not does not or did not require removal of any vegetation. >> Mr. Roar, Mr. Peters, your thoughts. >> We would have to uh receive approval in writing then from the D as condition of approval. >> Thank you. Any
additional questions for Mr. McFarland? Being that there's no additional questions from the board and no additional comments from the professionals at this time, I'm going to go ahead and open this to the public regarding the testimony we've already heard this evening from Mr. McFarland. If you have any questions, please come forward.
>> Okay, this is a new application, so I'm going to swear to you again. Uh, do you swear the testimony or affirm that the testimony you'll give before this board is the truth or nothing but the truth? >> Absolutely. >> And could please state your name again for the record? >> Absolutely. My name is Adam. Let me first and foremost say I love your pizza and I'm not trying to stop uh your
development. Uh, but there are rules and regulations. >> Wait, wait, wait, wait, wait. Before you start, >> could you spell your last name? >> Uh, I said no, I can't. >> Why? >> I don't want to. I don't have to. I'm just a civilian. I already said it. It's
being streamed and if you'd like it, you can go back. >> How where do you live in relation to this? >> I'm not is I'm not being interviewed by you. I'm asking you I'm here. I'm here to ask you questions. I'm I'm here from the public. >> No, no, you're Isn't that correct? I'm here to ask questions. >> So, >> okay.
>> You don't have to give your address, but you do have to give your last name. Please spell your last. >> My name is Adam Heidi. H A I D as in David I. And and and by the way, was that the law I had to give my last name? Yes. For in this kind of setting, you do
you do not have to give your address. >> The law that I had to spell my last name for him. >> Yes. >> You have to give your last name. >> I just want to make sure my rights are ask you to spell your last name >> and you without giving your address. Do you live within 200 feet of this property? >> No, sir. >> Okay. Go ahead. I'm sorry. You could continue.
>> Absolutely. Yeah. Live close enough though. Within two miles. Um, so, uh, just irrespective of your opinion, I I understand that there's a lot of opinions going on. I just want the board to know and our uh town attorney and our engineers to know that there are environmental laws. This property is
within a buffer zone. It's on wetland. So irrespective of what they may feel they need to submit, they are being regulated by the Environmental Protection Agency. So please make sure that you guys follow up with respect to soil erosion, your flood plan, your
threatened and endangered species inventory checklist, >> the myrad of forms that are going to be >> one minute. >> Sure. >> U could you just give us your background, your qualifications? >> I don't think that's I'm a concern I'm a concerned civilian, sir. I don't think
>> testimony as an expert or giving testimony. >> I'm here as a civilian, sir. I think it's rather insulting that you're asking me my background. >> I would would would wish you would stop talking and let me complete what I'm saying. >> Sure. >> Okay. Okay. I just would like to know
what your qualifications are. Do you have an educational background for the environmental issues you're talking about or uh can you give expert witness or are you just a person who has a lot of knowledge and giving us knowledgeable
information which is your opinion? >> So my answer >> which of those two >> my answer to that is as a concerned civilian uh any civilian who would speak up doesn't need to state their background and if if something is relevant it's relevant. I am a biochemist. I study biology and
chemistry. I work as a professional molecular scientist for the last six to seven years uh in the research and development field. Uh however, again, irrelevant. I'm a concerned civilian who's speaking up about an issue. So again, I find it rather insulting that we would have to bring up my background
when I'm just stating my >> Please don't be insulted. The reason that question was asked, and we do this anytime someone comes up and starts to expose knowledge like you just did, your qu Give me a second, please. We let you speak. Give me a second. When the professional spoke, when the attorney
spoke, you questioned what they're saying. You are now presenting information. As a board of volunteers, we want to know what your expertise is and where you're getting your information from. I could come up and read anything. So, just understand, nobody's insulting you. Absolutely. We're trying to see where this knowledge
is coming from. >> Can I ask you a question? Would any would anything I asked change if I was a custodian and I didn't have a biology or chemistry background? Okay. Okay. up there. So there are two things in terms of first of all it's not a question for
the board. Uh Dr. Hoffian asked you because we do this is a board that frequently does hear expert testimony. So that's not an it's not an insult to ask if that's what you're providing. Obviously you've spoken a number of times tonight. It's about environmental issues. You've obviously done some
research. It was not an inappropriate question to ask you that. You are correct. as a civilian, as a concerned civilian, you have every right to make a comment and please feel free to make that comment now. >> Yeah. I I just one more thing I'd like
to add, if I may, please. Um >> why it's relevant is because we have to weigh your comments just like we weigh their comments and their comments. If you're an expert, we put a little more weight on it and I listen to it more carefully. If you're a resident, I
understand your concern, but when you say you have to do this and you have to do that, I don't know if you know or not, right? So, common sense, right? You would do it yourself. Common sense is you weigh the the weight of what you have to say based on your experience,
based on what you know. That's why we asked the question. It's not an insult. You would do exactly the same thing if you were interviewing somebody or if you were listening to somebody's testimony. Correct? All right. That's all I have to say. Thanks. >> Again, I'm just a concerned civilian. I
I I don't think my background matters. The law is the law. >> Got it. >> The law is the law. And I Please don't rush me. I'm not on a clock. >> I believe I said earlier, I understand what the developers are saying relative
to their opinion on what forms need to be submitted. If I recall, all he was confident that they need to submit was a letter of intent. That's all he stated. What I'm saying is due to the block and lot number and he clearly depicted where
the buffer region is, where the wetland region is, they are now subjected to a myrad of environmental protection agency laws. They have to submit a multitude of applications whether it's local
ordinance. It's a state agency. Soil erosion, flood plants, threatened and endangered species inventories, vegetation inventories. Please do the research if you don't
believe me. Okay. Do you actually do you have any questions for Reno? Okay. Thank you, sir. >> I I I just can't help it. So, it sounds like you didn't really hear the testimony, right? And what was said here? We are
>> We This is open to the public, right? For comment. >> Hold on. Yeah. Yeah. Yeah. So, I can respond. >> Okay. Yeah. Yeah. >> Okay. So, I'm going to respond. >> No, but you're you're Can I actually just take the mic for a second? You just said you I didn't give a testimony. I'm here addressing my concerns as a civilian. >> Okay. >> Let's not misconrue the purpose of why
I'm here. >> Yep. I spoke and gave my concern. >> Yes, understood. And so to ease your concern, um I think when we had the testimony, we talked about that they're going to get a letter, right, of
interpretation, they call it, from uh New Jersey DIP, right on the wetlands. We talked about all that. Um right. And so I think that should address your concern. I don't know if you heard them say that, >> but that should address your concern. concern. So I'm not sure why you're
raising that concern, but >> be that as it may. >> And to respond, >> yes, >> what what they are acknowledging is 17th of what they need to fulfill. >> Okay. I I'll >> when the applicant submits a second. Are you done? >> Yeah. >> And I'll respond to you. When the
applicant submits its applications to the D, the D will determine what it needs to review or not review to comply with the D regulations. And the board engineer also indicated that he wants an additional D letter relating to the riparian buffer. So that's another level
of D review. This board has no jurisdiction over the D. The state makes their own decisions. >> Thanks. And and I would like to Yes, you were correct. >> We have to do it. None. And we didn't say we would. So >> I you just failed to mention the things
that you need to do, but I that's the point. >> I don't think we did, but Okay. >> Okay. >> We'll move on. Thank you so much for coming forward. >> Anyone else wishing to come forward, please do so at this time. >> This is my first time. So,
>> and to make you uh even more at ease, please raise your right hand to whether the testimony you'll give before this board will be the truth and nothing but the truth. >> Yes. >> And please could you state your name and address for that? >> Sure. Absolutely. I'm Patty Matlock and I live at 251 West Commodore. I am
actually Enzo's neighbor. I've lived there for over 23 years. When I moved in, there was no pizza parlor. It was an empty um like old farm stand and a house. Okay. Now, I just also want to make it clear, this is nothing personal.
I don't know him. I don't have a relationship with him, good or bad. Like, honestly, it has nothing to do. I'm a true believer. I own over 11 acres right next to him. So, I believe that, you know, you buy property, you know, especially if it's commercial, you want to do something with it. You should be
able to make money and do what you have to do. But I live here and they don't live there and they get to go home every night. So, I just have a few concerns. I have no problem with the pizza parlor. I've been living next to the pizza parlor, knockout pizza, to all the other ones over the years. He's actually been
one of the better pizza parlor neighbors and owners. Um, but I do have a few concerns because my property is less than 50 feet away from that building. He wants to put warehouse, you know, rent out
warehouses. Also, I have wellwater and I love my fresh wellwater. And I'm a little concerned about the trucks and the school buses and all those things parking back there. How do I know that they're not leaking oil or, you know, like that's my water? Okay. So, those
are my few concerns with that. Plus, I also have a couple concerns. The noise. It's I mean, it's loud enough that it's a pizza parlor. I mean, some of the noise isn't his fault. You got the cars with the loud stereos. The delivery guy stereos bumping in my chest, you know,
when he's delivering sometimes. Um, the garbage truck bangs the garbage at 5:00 in the morning. Wakes me up. Uh there was dumb trucks and I don't even know what kind of vehicles trucks in the back banging at all hours of the night. Um so those are the things that are bothering
me. I don't really I mean the shed business I guess doesn't bother me either. But again those are trucks coming in and out. I live there. It's my house, my property that I pay a lot in taxes for and I don't feel safe with all those trucks and businesses and stuff
right on my pretty much close to my property line. less than 50 feet and you know what are the hours of operation? The other concern I have is who are you renting this warehouse to? There's four different people or four different businesses. That's four different businesses less than 20 feet from my
property. I don't know who these people are. I need privacy. I don't want people in my yard or you know just that close to my business. So I don't know. I'm just very uh concerned about all that. And then I'm also thinking, wow, all these years I've been putting up with all this noise
and and you know, trying to not complain about anything and all these, seven, eight businesses. I was like, can I do that on my 11 acres? You know what I'm saying? Like people get in trouble for cutting down a tree and putting on a shed and eight businesses. Are you kidding me? I'm a little shocked, honestly, because I
didn't know all that. I knew some of it, but again, I live here and so I those are my main concerns. My really the main concerns are the trucks. Who who's driving these trucks in and out all hours of the day and night? Do I have to listen to this all night long, every day
of the week? Um, and then I'm concerned about them renting the warehouse. I don't want strange people practically in my yard. So, um, the other thing I'd ask is if if if this gets approved, um, I would ask for an 8-oot privacy fence
from maybe where his pizza parlor ends in the back all the way down. So, at least I have some privacy and some protection from the noise. And the other concern I have is what type of businesses are going to be in this warehouse. I don't want to smell toxic chemicals. I'm a very clean and green person. I have a green business. I use
no chemicals in my yard. I do use no chemicals on my in my house, on my body. I'm not a freak, but you know, I like good wine and some good food, but in general, I put no chemicals. Um, so what who's renting this? Like, you know what I mean? Is it a mechanic? Is it going to be a painter? You know, all these like
sometimes I can smell the paint from down the road at the painting place. So, those are my concerns. And like I said, nothing personal. It's very uncomfortable for me to come here and have to say these things because you know again I have lived here 23 years before there was a pizza parlor. So um I
don't know. I mean I'm looking forward to hearing all those answers and what Yes. >> They're going to call Mr. Fano up so we'll be able to get some of the answers to your questions and you'll have the ability to question him as well once he's done with his testimony. But thank you so much for coming. >> Could I just ask because on the aerial we can't see the house. So where is you
know how to >> So I have an acre um right par almost parallel with the warehouse and his second parking lot now that he wants >> Well, he's going to point. So let's >> Oh, okay. >> I I Yeah, I just want to I think lot 20 is right here. Right.
>> Right here. Right. >> Right. >> So where >> do you know where your h where the house is located that you're Oh, cuz because you said the house was 50 feet from >> Okay. So, so your house is So, your
house is is it that house or that is that >> house? >> We agree. We just didn't We couldn't see the house. >> No. Again, I thought I heard you say I thought I heard you say that the house was 50 feet from the property line. We
weren't seeing the house. I just want to make sure we understand. Understood. We get it. >> Okay. >> Right. So from from your house to the property line, it's uh it's probably 200 feet. The property frontage here is 200
>> feet. Property frontage here is almost 300 ft. >> Get me involved. >> Your house is here. So you're just so we have perspective. The house is probably 200 feet or two to 300 from your property. >> Yeah. And then I also would like the the
the dumpsters. I really wish he'd move him somewhere else because we've had some problems with the dumpsters and then the garbage blows into my yard. Um he's, you know, been pretty good cleaning it up, but you know, people leave and throw their garbage out in front of my house and it's very annoying, but I mean that's not technically his fault that part of it
anyway. Um so I'm just concerned like I feel like, you know, my taxes I mean they're $12,000. Are you kidding me? And I I have to live next to an industrial park, you know? That's kind of how I feel. And I honestly I'm a little concerned about safety as well. So I
mean maybe >> Thank you. >> Mr. McFarland before they call um Mr. Ferano up, could you just clarify for us point out on the map? I know you mentioned that it wasn't zoned residential where this property is again. Can you please restate what it is
zoned and what her property is zone if you don't mind, Miss Mal? >> Sure. the uh the properties the properties to the uh west are zoned the same as a subject which is uh which is limited commercial. So there are some houses um in there but they are all
within the LC zone. The property to the uh to the east again which also does have you know house on it uh is actually in the ROS or recreation open space zone. again that that zone does not allow uh single family houses. So again
to a previous question we had talk about the need for buffers. Um your ordinance does not require buffers for properties that are not residentially zoned. I'm sorry, ma'am. >> Okay. So, when I moved in, it was uh
residential. It was R3, I think. Yeah. Minimum three acres to build or something like that. And then it was reszoned and I'm limited commercial, but obviously I'm still residential because I live there. And then next to me there's three other houses which I guess doesn't really pertain to them because
nobody else is within 200 feet but me because I got the letter anyway. Um so I get that it's limited commercial and I actually like that my property is limited commercial. I hope somebody offers me a lot of money and gets to do everything he wants to do on his property. It's only fair. Um but right
now I'm residential and I live there. So I you know I get that the limited commercial thing but again I bought it as you know I'm I'm a resident. So that's just one one question before you go. >> When you purchased the house, was it right over here?
>> Oh, there you are. Sorry. >> When you purchased the house, was it a residential? >> Yeah, it was R3, which is >> And then while you were living there, they changed the zone. >> Yes. >> At the last >> Yep. Several years back, they did the overlay and reszoning and all that, you know. And again, like I said, I don't
want to, you know, say the man can't make money and do what he wants to do. I just want to be protected from my concerns. So, >> Madam Chair, yes, >> I just remind the board as we keep going back and forth, we're not really in the site plan part of this yet, but as part of the use, while I don't disagree that
Mr. McFarland said that a buffer is not required, their uses aren't permitted. So at some point when we go through the impacts to adjacent properties, we can revisit this issue about whether or not the proposed use in its proposed location is an impact on the neighbors
and whether or not some form of screening or buffering would be um recommended by the board. The more we go into the details, the more we get away from dealing with the use and getting the use testimony from the applicant. And you know, I agree and I I appreciate you letting me say what I want to say
because I just wanted you guys to keep that in mind while you're listening to what he wants to do and how it will impact me. So that I'm glad I got to talk about it now, but I'm more than happy to sit down and listen. Thank you. >> Thank you. >> Just one question for Michelle Ferry. Do
you plan on sending this application to the Jackson Environmental Commission? Mr. McFarland, >> I assume they still exist. I >> I don't know. We don't know. >> We did submit it to the environmental commission. We're not we're not required to submit an impact statement. Impact
statement is required for for buildings of 20,000 square foot or more by we did submit it to the environmental commission when we made the application. >> Okay. >> And we did not get any comments back yet. They're having trouble responding to applications. >> And I assume you haven't heard back from them. >> No. >> Okay.
>> We did not. >> Right. This environmental this is the this is our Jackson environmental commission you're referring to. Yes. >> Oh, one one question that has related to this. Are we going to take five minutes at any time?
>> Okay. >> I didn't want any trouble speaking. >> Um before we move on to Mr. Ferand, don't do you mind if we take your 10-minut break? >> Thank you. I didn't know we'd be here this late.
I can order now before they close. >> Board cannot accept pizza. >> Understandable. It would be perceive perceived badly. I can get it for them and none for you guys. >> The guys should have stayed. They didn't know there was going to be pizza.
>> Don't worry, I'll be back. >> All right. >> They'll be back in a couple weeks. >> Okay. I heard. >> So, um, we're going to have you sworn in so you can introduce yourself. Do you swear or affirm that the testimony you will give before this board is the truth and nothing but the truth? >> Yes. >> And please state your name for the record.
>> Falzerano. >> And Mr. Ferano, what is your relationship to the property owner? >> I am the son and I am the general manager of the restaurant >> and it's owned by an LLC or an individual? >> An LLC, but my mother is the only
>> shareholder. Okay. And what is your relationship to the restaurant? >> Also owned by my mother. I'm the general manager. >> Okay. And how long has your family operated the restaurant? >> So, they've been there since 2006, but I was still running the other pizzeria on
the other side of town, and I came over in 2009 after my father passed away. >> Okay. So, your family's been running the restaurant since ' 06. >> Yes, sir. >> And it was operational. They bought the restaurant from someone else. >> They bought the restaurant from Gianna's Pizza, who I believe bought it from Knockout Pizza. So, I think it's only
three before us. And then in terms of the real estate, how long has your family owned the real estate? >> I got to go check the exact date >> approximately after after the restaurant. >> Yeah. Yeah. Well, we didn't buy we didn't own the property for the restaurant. We rented from Hilda Tarba who owned the property. We bought it
from her daughter after she passed and I believe it was the November before COVID broke out which was I don't know anybody remember what year that was. >> 2019. >> There you go. >> Okay. And then uh and looking at the aerial that's displayed on the screen,
which was marked as as exhibit one, the area that's cleared, meaning the area that's gray, which is either driveway or parking area, was that all there when you guys took over the restaurant? >> So from 2009 when I took over, we have
not cut down a single whole tree. Um, from what my neighbor told me, which I didn't even know, my father apparently cleared some stuff in the front lower left to have better visibility for the restaurant and I guess people entering and exiting. The tree line must have
been closer to the road and dangerous to exit the parking lot and also covering up the building. Um, from that point when I took over, we we haven't cut down a single full tree. We recently did a lot of trimming over what will be I guess we call it the garage or the
warehouse because stuff was overhanging and we were trying to see the current status of the roof and gutter system and everything but we cut down branches no full trees. >> So there was no clearing in the back during your involvement in this property. >> No none none from us. >> So um
I'm going to walk you through the various uses. Okay. Because the board needs to fully understand what you're proposing. So let's start at the restaurant. Um, what are your hours of operation? >> Uh, we're there by 10:00 in the morning. We open at 10:30. We close at 10:00. On
the weekends, Friday and Saturday, we close at 11:00. So, basically 11 to 11. >> And then during peak time, how many employees are on site for the restaurant? >> Friday or Saturday night? As many as 12 during the busy season. But
>> that's peak. >> That's peak. >> Okay. And then is does that include delivery drivers? >> That includes the delivery drivers. How many delivery drivers during peak hours? >> Uh, three. Four. Sometimes four on Friday. >> All right. And how do they Can you just explain a board how the delivery process
works? So, they would usually, unless there's something customer wise blocking them, would enter from the higher entrance and they park on the side of the building. Yes. They park on the side of the building towards the shed company. Yep.
Right there. And the the dumpster that's currently located on on the site um adequately handles the the garbage that you produce >> for the restaurant. Yes. >> Yeah. For the restaurant. And we're willing to work with the board and the neighbor to relocate it in a way that would minimize the impact on the
neighbor's property. >> Yes. We used to have it on the other side of the building again closer to the shed company. The garbage company actually moved it because when they would pick it up and dump it, they were in danger of hitting the overhead wires that come into the buildings in the property. Um, and I guess they caught
one once when I was not there, when my father was there, and they moved it to the other side. So, >> and then there's a small shed type structure behind the restaurant, correct? >> Yes. >> What is that used for? >> So, we just use it for dry storage. From my understanding, the original landlord
had her cousin living there. It's like a small one two two two room apartment with a bathroom and everything, but we use it for dry storage. >> Right. And and you're and if the board were to grant this approval, you would limit the use of that building for dry storage in ancillary to the restaurant.
>> Yes. Yes. >> Yeah. >> All right. Then let's move on to the um left side of the property where the sheds are stored. >> Um can you explain to the board how that shed business evolved on site? >> Okay. So, the owner of the shed company
is a friend of mine from high school and his wife's cousin. He's a Camden city police officer. It started with, "I heard you bought the property. Can I store some sheds here as I bring them down from Long Islander in from Pennsylvania before I get them to the houses?" All right. We're not supposed
to, but how many sheds you talking about? Little bit at a time, it got out of control. And as we got closer to this, it's just they're waiting for us now because they want to rent that whole tract of land and turn her old home, which is I guess upper left, um, into their showroom and
office, sales office. But again, nothing is built on property. They're brought in from Pennsylvania and or their other warehouse in New York, and they're brought here and either staged or displayed or just set up before they get to somebody's house. But nothing is built on site. And um so the house
itself would be converted to their sales office. >> Yeah, like a sales office and showroom. >> All right. And then the behind it would be the storage of these sheds. >> Yes, sir. >> Um do you know what hours of operation they work or will work if this were approved?
>> So from what they told me, it's as early as 8 in the morning that they're picking stuff up and moving out. And they're generally done by 7 8:00 when it gets dark because it's dark. I know on occasion they've had brought things in cuz things delayed them and they're dropping off stuff late at night. I've
asked them to try to restrict that as much as possible. I know that it disturbs the neighbors, but uh I guess you know when they're dropping things off and heading as far north as Long Island and as far south as Pennsylvania to drop and pick things up, they end up delayed and they're dropping stuff off late at night. But I have asked them to
to try to restrict that as much as possible because we have discussed it in the past. >> And um do you know how many employees work on site >> um for that use only? >> So I know he has as many as five or six
installers rotating through at any given time that are coming in and dropping off sheds and or bringing them to people's houses. In the sales office I think would be restricted to Anthony and his wife. So on-site regular two employees otherwise it's the people the installers picking up or dropping off. >> Yes.
>> Okay. Um and they can you describe do they see public regularly there or is it or is it online ordering? >> Right. Right now it's either online ordering or by appointment. I let them put some business cards out there and they'll call and and meet a customer out there just to open up some sheds or show
them or give them details on a specific shed model. Um, otherwise it's phone calls and online and then they'll just bring it from there. So, I'm assuming that they'll see more customers in person, but I can't imagine many seeing as how much is done online these days. Um, so few that I think four to six
spots that are is more than adequate. I mean, they're only seeing one at a time. If you have if you have one or two salespeople there at a time, how many customers can you really see? >> Then the the warehouse building, which is >> excuse me, just to check the trucks.
What size trucks will be coming in? >> What size trucks deliver or or or remove the trailers? Do you? >> So, they have um like I guess it would be the equivalent of a big flatbed tow truck that they might fit as many as three sheds on back to back depending on
the size of the sheds. Those trucks just come in, drop off, and leave. And then they have smaller ones that'll carry one shed at a time on the back that they come in and pick up and take out and install. Now, that the warehouse building that was the former tomato business, um
>> the building's in disrepair now, correct? >> Yes. It's basically a fourc car garage and one of the car door, one of the garage doors opens, the rest of them barely do. One of them doesn't close at all. So, it would require probably roof, gutters, some type of siding, and some interior cleanup before you could rent
it out. >> And that building, according to Mr. McFarland, 2600 square feet. So, what is So, it's relatively small. What is your vision as to type of tenant that would occup would rent the various bays? >> So, my hope would be to find one guy who wants the whole thing, whether it's a
landscaper, an electrician, and a plumber who wants to park his equipment and trucks there and pick them up before jobs and and leave. One guy, one tenant, no problem. As many as four potentially, you could divide. And the goal is just basically commercial storage. The plumber might rent a bay
and keep his equipment there because he doesn't have home usage or space for that. Come in in the morning with his truck, pick up what he needs for jobs, and go out to work, come back at night, unload his truck, and maybe pick up his regular residential vehicle and go home. Four times that, or one guy who does
something similar. >> And you would agree that if again, if this were approved and you were to lease that space that you would prohibit the storage of hazardous material? >> Absolutely. Would you also agree to prohibit mechanical work of any kind? >> I don't want any work done on the property. I mean definitely no
mechanical or I mean just something later on that I might have to worry about when I sell the property. >> So it's just pure storage. >> Yes. Commercial storage. >> Then let's move back to the parking that's on either side of that drive aisle proposed. What kind of vehicles? You heard Mr. McFarland agree to
stipulate that it would be registered operational vehicles only. So currently the lower space is regular motor vehicles, cars, and the young man owns a garage down the street where he repairs the vehicles. So when he has overspill
of parking or cars that he's waiting on parts for in order to keep things moving, he's rented this space to park his extra vehicles. Then he'll bring them over and work on them over there. Um on the other side, I have three tractor trailers that are currently in use with two different
tenants. And then there's one that's been parked there since the beginning of time. Hilda Tarbo had the truck there with this tenant before I was born probably. He just parks it there. It doesn't run. He hasn't like it's the
only It's still registered. It has a license plate on it. Whatever. He can move it like he starts it up. He has offered to move it to a different location if I want to move it somewhere else. But he no longer works as a trucker but wants his truck. I don't know. and he's rented it for before I
can remember. Before we were there, I mean, everybody remembers the truck being there when Hilda was there. Mark has been there longer than I've probably been alive. >> Now, then then Mr. McFarland identified that small area near the riparian buffer
area that has the landscape material. >> Yes. >> Um, can you describe that? Like how often did someone visit that site? What type of vehicles? What type of hours? So much like any landscaping business, he's in by 7:30, 8:00 and trying to get out
the jobs. And when it gets dark, he's done. So he comes in, he drops off his stuff, and he leaves. Um his main pickup trucks and trailers and stuff, he takes somewhere else. He's got another warehouse location that he parks at. He has a couple front end loaders that are parked there. Um and he has dropped off
as he needs some goods such as mulch or stone or sand. and he might not have all three at any given time. Just whatever he needs for jobs he's working on currently, he'll use those front end loaders to load his trucks or trailers. And then he goes and does his jobs at the end of the night. He will return, drop off the front end and loaders if he
needs to, if he's used them for the day. Otherwise, they've been there all day. And um and then you might get another truckload of mulch if he's doing a different job or you might get not get any for months. >> But there's no retail activity associated with that. >> No. As a matter of fact, even the trees that he is has planted in the nursery
area um are for his personal use. He had a an opportunity to buy these little trees and grow them and they're very expensive when they get bigger, but uses them a lot in his landscaping. He asked me and I said, "They're trees. I can't imagine they're bad for the land. They're just trees. Plant them."
>> So So the that last area to the back, the planting area, the stockpile area or whatever we called it earlier, is plantings associated with that landscaper. Yes. >> Okay. Now, couple other questions before we get into the timing of when these things
entered your property. >> That's a good stuff. >> Right. We'll get to that in a minute. Um the the twostory shed type building or garage building that Graham referred to associated with the the um shed business, that's not used by anyone on
>> No. And it should have been gone already, but apparently that guy and his wife separated and he didn't take the thing. So, cuz I asked Anthony about it. He said, "You should come look at this thing I have in the back." And we walked through it. It's very impressive, but it's not supposed to be there anymore, but the guy who ordered it didn't take it and now it's there.
>> And where do they currently conduct? Is there a sales trailer of some sort on site for them? >> So, he just brought in a trailer this summer because Christine was tired of doing paperwork at home. So, she's doing the paperwork there in the afternoons and waits for
customers to come and disappear. So, she's kind of started to see customers there, but still mostly by appointment. They call her, she'll come, she'll do some paperwork while she waits for them. She leaves when they're gone. >> Sometimes she has her daughters there. >> So, if this were approved and the house were converted to the office, that
trailer >> that trailer would be gone, >> right? Um All right. Let's talk about timing. So, you you you mentioned when you bought the property that the restaurant obvious was there, right? And there was um when did the shed business start? You said
what? I don't think you said that when Okay. So >> I would say approximately 2022 give or take. >> Okay. >> It was a year year or so after we bought the property. So you know he probably asked me about it the year before and
then when the spring came he started to bring a couple and you know couple became more. >> And you didn't come to the township in any way for approval of that use. Correct. Not initially. No. And then we figured out that that was not okay. >> Okay. Now, the warehouse building um
obviously was there since you've owned the the business. >> Yes. But always always empty. >> It was empty. So, no one's rented that while you owned it. >> Now, what about storage of the vehicles and the and the landscaper? When did that when did those two types of uses
begin? >> Either same thing around 22 23. >> Okay. So other than that truck that you said that's been there for years. >> So but she had other trucks that which I didn't know we weren't zoned for because Hilda had always had people parking trucks there of some variety or another.
Markx just never moves. But she had another guy that still comes in to eat now that he's retired who used to park a tanker back there. Um and we met him when we were first renting from Hilda and he used to park his truck back there. There was another guy who used to have a big flat bed for like uh towing
vehicles. He used to park back there. We used to see him for lunch. So I just assumed that she did and we did like it was oh already approved. I should have followed up but that's you know. >> And what about >> more more ignorance than than evil. >> And what about the landscaper?
>> When how long has he been there? >> Probably about two years now. So 2023 give or take. >> Okay. Now, um, in terms of architectural changes to the to any of the buildings, you mentioned the warehouse building, you were going to do some improvements,
>> but I don't think >> Well, just describe >> architecturally, no, more of a facelift. Everything needs to be repaired, but nothing is going to change the footprint of the building. >> Okay. What about the house itself? Any changes to the outside of the house?
>> The main bones? No. But if it becomes an office, I'm sure they have to do some type of handicap egress and they're going to have to widen the front door and or side door, whichever one they decide to use their main door to allow for handicap access and such. But I mean, you know, in order to run a business, you have to do those things. But I think the main footprint of the
building, the foundation should remain the same. >> And the the restaurant, no changes. >> None. No. >> Okay. And then one final question is you heard your neighbor come up and she mentioned that she would like to have a fence to try and keep people from entering properties or garbage spilling
over. Are you willing to to provide a fence? >> As I was saying to her, yeah, I mean, I think it's a reasonable request, you know, to to have those people right on the border of your property and not know who they are. You bought this house when it was all rural. She wants a privacy fence, something earthton tone, vinyl, 6
foot, whatever, 8 foot if they'll give the variance. But you know, six I know is standard. I know eight requires a variance and six doesn't. So you guys will figure it out when you let me know. >> Okay. I think hopefully that gives you a
better feel for the level of use and he's here now to answer questions. >> Mr. leaders. >> Since I'm the Since Mark and I are the higher guns and this gentleman's one of your neighbors, I'll go first. Is it
>> Mr. Fzerano? >> Four. >> I apologize. I'm Irish. >> That's okay. Don't worry about it. >> Fzerano. >> My name is Ernie Peters. I'm the board's planner. I'm going to ask some questions. Absolutely. >> Since you have the mic in your hand, I'm going to ask them of you, but >> most of them are going to be for S or for Graham anyway.
>> Okay. Um, I appreciate your testimony. You come coming to the board and explaining things that quite frankly we didn't understand. Um, so I'll try to do this in the order you you spoke to them about. The
um the building directly behind the pizza store is going to be used for restaurant use only. >> Yes. >> Um, any current or former use is going to be abandoned. And again, I I apologize. I have to ask it to you, but
I'm asking it to these guys and they're going to yes me to death, I think. >> And we and and the question I that he stipulated to would be used for storage of dry goods ancillary to the restaurant use only and any prior use would >> will be abandoned. >> Would be abandoned.
>> Thank you. Um I apologize, sir. When you were talking about the single family house, it's related to the shed business. Is that currently being used by the folks who do who have the shed business? >> I mean, they have a key so that they can
use the restroom and such. >> Okay? >> You know, they the boys will have their lunch in the kitchen area there, but these are just the guys who come in and load and get out. >> Here's I'm going to try to just speak frankly and and normally to you. When the town has a problem with the
property, if you're the owner, we have to come see you. >> Yeah. If you have tenants, you're the one that has to assist the town in making sure that they follow along. So, the town's going to come out and they're going to speak to you first and your tenant,
>> but you're the one here tonight. You didn't bring your tenants, right? >> So, we could swear them in and say, "I have a relationship with Mr. Vzerano, and this is what we're doing." So, the only person we can ask these questions of, unfortunately, we're not picking on you. We're just trying to get answers. >> So, there have been nights that the
manager has stayed there. Mhm. >> But I don't know if they intend to do that going forward. >> So I guess to Mr. Alfieri at some point you're going to have to tell us it it's not
a tiny house. The what's currently the use of the building or structure appears to be a single family house. It's being utilized in some respects. So, I'm assuming that >> he's going to come up with a plan of
what he wants to do with the house and we're going to have to represent that. And almost more importantly, if it's not going to be a single family house anymore, it's got to be part of the approvals that the board grants to you that says there's currently, I guess
you could go and turn it back into a single family house or utilize it as a single family house. But at some point in time, we need to be clear as to what you're asking this building to be utilized as. And if at the end you say well I want to use the the first floor as office space and the second floor as
bedrooms just say so I'm not sure we have an answer of what >> okay so I >> is the house going to stay as a house is the house going to turn into an office >> so it's only it's a single floor I myself had a similar question in mind because like I said the one manager has
stayed there from time to time when he has to drop stuff off super late. Um, but I would assume that the main living areas would become the showroom. I don't know what the intention is with the two bedrooms if he is going to make them office or if he intends to allow the guys to stay there. I guess I should get
clarification on that. And then um I mean the kitchen would probably stay the kitchen so that the staff can come in and grab a quick lunch or or leave or you know almost like a cafeteria type thing. Um break room. I mean, again, I have Mr. Alfier. >> I have not clarified, but that's how
they're using it. Now, we owe you a better answer to that question. >> Just a statement of operations that can be put in the file in case there's a resident concern. We can send the zoning officer, the code enforcement officer out, this is what you said you were going to do in 2025. It's good. It's not good.
>> Okay. Um, you talked about the the only thing out in the the area for the the storage of the outdoor sheds was the sheds. Um, I saw that they have an area out there with crushed stone. And I don't know if
that's used for folks to throw on a pickup truck when they go to install them. >> I guess to lay the foundation under the shed. >> So my my concern is, and again, not to you, to your professionals, that's the outdoor storage of materials. Okay. Okay. And it's not related to the landscaper. It's related to the outdoor
shed. So, we're going to want to know how big is the area, how much does it hold, how high is it going to be, the typical things. And I apologize, Mr. Ferano. I'm talking to you, but these are general things that we talk about when we have landscape contractors putting mulch and soil and wood chips
and stone and and pa blocks. We want to know how big, how high, how often. So, at some point, your professionals are going to tell the board what's going on in that area. >> Um, >> I was there and I didn't see that, but you did. Obviously,
>> right at the end, if you turn around before you get to the big tanker truck, >> turn around. It's right there. Um, the warehouse building currently, um, I guess some part of it being used by CNS Landscaping. I'm hoping that he takes
the whole thing and then she'll only have to worry about one tenant, >> right? >> But, you know, >> I'm not I didn't try to walk in the far side of it because there weren't any walls. So, I just um >> CNS landscaping is also the one same guy in the back. Only one landscaper,
>> right? Um again, as the as the owner or the landlord, do you know someone had I don't know if it was you or Mr. Alfieri, are there retail sales? Can I go to CNS,
walk in the building and say, "Hey, I want you to do landscaping at my house." Is that what goes on in that building? I don't know. That's the reason I'm asking. >> No, I think he has somebody there who does estimates and building. >> Okay. Again, the concern is there's a there's what amounts to a real estate
sign out front. And I can't tell if that real estate sign is so that the the people who are bringing materials to the site know where it is because there's very limited sight distance in front of your property or if it's so that Mrs. Smith wants to come in and get some shrubs installed or Mr. Jones wants to
get a pa patio built that they come and they go there to do it. And that's important to note to whether whether or not CNS landscaping has a retail component or if they're just there for their storage of >> just there for the storage. That that sign in the street has actually been
there since well I mean I'm sure he's changed it because they get beat up pretty quick. But >> from before he started storing things because he does my personal landscaping. So it's kind of like a hey we do this here. >> Okay. >> You know if you're happy with the way this grass is green then we can do it at your house. Um, I heard through your
testimony that in the warehouse building, there'll be no hazardous material storage. That was correct. >> Correct. >> Um, parking area two, which I guess is the one on the bottom of the sheet, the west side. >> Yes. >> You said that it's a mechanic's business. >> Yes. >> Um,
>> no work is to be done on the premises. >> Well, a couple of things. I was out there three weeks ago. I was out there today. Um, there are vehicles that are unregistered, that aren't drivable. Um, at some point in time, tell us what you're doing out there. If they're
unregistered, they're unlicensed, they're not drivable in Jackson Township, they may be called a junkyard. And I would strongly suggest that >> you speak to your speak to whoever that that's probably not a great idea.
>> Okay. Um, that raises any number of issues about you're storing motor vehicles. We don't know the condition of them. We don't know if they've been drained of fluids. People around there have wells, all sorts of nasty things that can lead us down a bad
path. So, at some point in time, you and your professionals need to tell us what's going on, how many are going to be there, how long they're going to be there. All the vehicles that are out there aren't from a mechanic shop. Okay? I don't know what they're there for, but
they're not there to be fixed. So, let's >> Well, he's the only one who drops him off. I mean, I don't know the condition of each vehicle that comes in. I >> I should, I suppose, but I I don't >> You're the only person that Jackson Township has to talk to, sir. So, again, I'm not I'm not picking a fight with you. At the end of the day, if you own
the property and you have some relationship with those folks and you don't want that stuff, get it out. >> Yeah. >> Um it it's going to negatively impact the the board looking at the entire application. If you say, "Well, I don't know what the guy's doing or I don't I can't control what he does." you're the
owner. Unfortunately, you're going to have to. And again, no disrespect. It's just that >> understand. >> Um, so with a mechanic, someone has to come back and tell us they're only going to be there for a period of time, 2 weeks, 30 days, waiting for a part. Um,
that they're they're not going to be leaking fluids into the stone area. Um, those sorts of things. storage area one on the opposite side which has the looks like tractor
trailers or school buses or whatever is over there. Is that one group of folks or is that >> So that's two guys, three trucks. >> Okay. So Mr. Alfier, I'm going to ask you to explain how lease area one
>> is supposed to be approved. Okay. It's a big area on Mr. McFarland's plan. And if he says there's two guys and three trucks. >> Well, currently I'm assuming there will be more trucks in the future. >> Well, my my concern is who you leasing it to, what are they going to put there? You can't just say, I want to put a
stone parking lot and people bring anything in. Word is going to ask you some serious questions about that. Who, what, where, when. Um, so you're going to have to have an idea if if it's whatever it is is fine, but we can't just leave a blank area out there for
anything to happen. That's sort of what got us in this spot. So again, just something to think about when you come back for the next meeting. Um, moving back to the landscape storage area in the back back right on the plan,
back left if you're looking from the street. Um, again, please get CNS to put together something that says how big the areas are, how much material is going to be in there, how high it's going to be. I think there's a height limitation. Mr. Mcfallen would know probably just as
well as myself or Mr. Roire. I don't know if it's 10, 12, 15 feet. You have to be in a sort of somewhat secure area like the concrete block that you have for the stone for the sheds, something like that back there. And again, just as a as a common sense,
the landscapers out there with the big sprinklers. I don't want the sprinklers out there if he decides to go and put salt or concrete block or something back there. Just it's a an environmentally sensitive area. He's got to create a storage space out there so we know
what's going on. Um, the last thing I I I guess a a question. Was there any thought given to the need for privacy fence? Privacy fencing security fencing for anything behind the
pizza shop. I see on Mr. McFarland's plan that there's supposed to be a six foot vinyl fence around the storage shed area. Almost messed that up really, really bad.
Um, was there any thought to having some sort of fence that stopped you from driving behind the pizza building into these areas that are being leased out to three or four different folks? Or is
there any need for providing some security fencing for the areas that get leased, the parking areas? Um, quite frankly, it looks fine now, but I'm I'm here to tell you that as this becomes more organized,
that's how things grow into other areas. Um, so I guess you don't have to answer the question, but I guess it's something maybe you want to take home with you tonight and say, you know what, does this work for me as the as the land owner, or is it something that we should think about so that each group is
responsible for staying in their play pen, so to speak? That's probably more the concern of the public and the board is you're going to do something. You're going to ask to be able to lease blocks of areas. Normally, we'd ask you, well, show us what the striping is. Show us
how many vehicles can be there. Show us how you're going to park them. In some instances, you might even put some security fencing around so that they don't go. >> Yeah. >> At some point in time, when business is good, it's kind of like the covered area in the back right. You know, someone decided to put up one of those
temporary shed air, temporary tent building covers to keep the stuff out of the wall, out of the rain. Well, quite frankly, I'm not sure that at some point in time someone's not got a gas tank back there, which is impermitted. Okay? You stood up and said, "I'm not going to
have hazardous materials on site." Guys can't be bringing temporary gas vehicles in and storing them on site. So, let's just ask your clients to be as honest with you as you can so you can be as straightforward with us so that we can, you know, give you the approval you
want to have. So, I think that's a the end of my conversation for now, Madam Chair. I apologize if I took any of the board members thunder. I was just sort of responding to test. I appreciate Mr. Ferano's testimony, his honesty, telling us what he's doing, where it is, and I
think that's a good start for us um if we move to another meeting. And I think um we'll submit a written statement of operations to summarize what we testified to plus what Mr. Peters questioned um and we'll put that so it's more orderly and understandable
along with the items we've agreed to pre provide previously which are the prior resolutions of approval the aerials and I think something else. Oh and that that A3 was something that Mr. McFarland referred to tonight, but was not previously submitted because it was
brought up to date just this week, I guess, or last week. So, we'll submit that as well. >> So, do you want to look at the date for them to return? >> I will open it to the public, but I just wanted to know if you want to date. >> If you're asking me, I do, but what I
really need is Gina, do you have a date? >> Hello. Gina, before you get >> October 29th, that third date, I know I can't make that date. >> Okay. I have a note from Dawn. If any applications are to be carried, please use September 3rd. Um, application
number three. And then anything after that, if that date doesn't work for you, Mr. Alfier, the next available is November 4th. >> September 3rd is the adventure crossing night, right? Yeah, but that only took a couple minutes.
>> So, what's the date after that one? Because that's that's that's that's a nightmare. >> Yes. Adventure Crossing is that day, by the way. >> Yeah. >> Uh the next available would be >> November 4th.
>> Let me just >> application this far. >> That's a Tuesday. So is it the fifth? >> November 5th. >> November 5th. Sorry, I was reading exhaust my work for work. Apologies. >> November 5th works for every our team and it gives us time to actually put
something together more orderly. >> So we after you open it to the public, we'd request that we announce the date and not have to renotice. >> Thank you. Um I'm gonna go ahead and open it to the public. >> Chair, I'm sorry. Before you open it
here, just a really quick question um to get out of the way to lay the foundation. So all these properties are like 10 acres. They're big properties, right? Um as yours was 10 acres. So when you said that, how many actual notifications was sent out because when
you followed the rules, was it 10? No, two or three because the properties are so big. >> He didn't do it. So but I did. So there were >> I have the list here. >> Okay. Oh,
>> it's on. Okay. Okay. >> There's about 25 or 30 >> Wow. >> different tax slots >> because it goes 200 f feet for the It's a really It goes past property extends further out past the map. >> So, there was a big amount of people
that were notified. We had one show up. Okay. >> A couple people on the East Fish Road side. >> Yeah. And the one Brian Flannry who you all know owns land nearby. He he was in favor. He had no issue. But he I see he shows up five times. So he must own five
different tax slots over there. >> Right. So it's sorry. Yeah. >> Okay. I got it. Thank you. Thank you very much. >> I have one. >> Mr. S. >> I just have one question playing a little foreshadowing here because this has come up in the past. I think it
would also be good for you guys to find out if any of these people who are going to be leasing the property have any plans on putting a 30 yard or any kind of open container because I've know we had in the past especially how sensitive this area is.
We've always questioned what's going to be stored in these dumpsters. Are they going to be in and out? So to find out if any of these businesses have any plans on putting any kind of open container garbage, >> we'll find out. >> Thank you. >> Okay, so we're going to go ahead. No,
>> I'm sorry. I thought it was Jean. I'm sorry. Yes, >> thank you. Um I just haven't heard any about the refrigeration right behind the restaurant being addressed. I'm just >> Oh, um >> just not I didn't notice any testimony
about it. just if it requires anything. Um, >> I don't know. Outside the restaurant before the small home that we use for dry storage, there's an exterior walk-in box for additional refrigeration. >> From a planning standpoint, I don't know if that needs to be addressed, if it
requires any kind of um variances or anything like that. definitely has some piping um laying on the ground which is not the code that that I did notice when I was
there. Um Mr. Peters did mention the rock that you use to maintain the lot. Um it looks like it's in an enclosed area. You know, it's got like these big uh concrete things there. So, if you can
obviously give some more testimony on that. In the back right, I noticed that there was a container there um from a company intelligent project. Um it's a full container. I'm not sure exactly what's in there. It's full and next to
it there's a truck with a smaller container on it from the same company that's parked there. So, I didn't hear anything about that if that's part of the landscaping company or if it's additional storage and you're having a storage, you know, container company based out of your property or what that
is exactly. Um, and then there's obviously a lot of other trucks and containers as well. We didn't hear any kind of information about the general containers scattered throughout the property. Uh I'm trying to think the just to clarify the landscaping company is based
out of the warehouse currently. There's some signage on there. Is that correct? >> Yes. Yeah, there's some signage in there. >> I thought you that you had said that it was v vacant saying prior to your >> So the first bay
has been semi- renovated. He's got the door that actually closes and we closed off a wall for him and his guy comes over there and gets the crew started in the morning and I think he does estimates out of there while the guys are going in and out. But I'm hoping he'll take the whole thing and renovate the whole thing and I'll only have one
tenant. So again, just to those points, um there are many different types of warehouse uses. If you're you mentioned, you know, possibly for a plumber, electrician, contractor warehouse, whether they will or will not store vehicles there, the
type of warehouse that will be makes a difference for the application. Um, as well as in general for the landscape company, if you plan on storing those front loaders there, what the uses for this property. Um,
as far as hazardous materials, I'm not sure if the jerry cans that are used for the landscaper fall into that category. Normally, landscapers do store that on their trucks. Not sure if that's, you know, >> dropped off or they store additionally
there. If you could just verify that. >> I guess if you rented the whole warehouse, you might have them in the garage over there. >> So, that may be storing hazardous materials on this property, which you said you wouldn't do. So we >> I hadn't considered that right. >> So we could just clarify that
information as well. Um and then lastly, as far as some kind of fire safety plan, meaning if you're going to, you know, if we could have delineated on the plan, exactly if there's any concerns, you did mention that the shed company has very large trucks that are get, you know,
going to be delivered. Is there a large enough area for them to properly turn around? Is it going to be done in a safe manner? if you could just get the sizing for those trucks. Uh, additionally, the town requires in general for installation of sheds a foundation. The
question is, are you having foundations being put in there that way that you can constantly rotate, you know, from the >> Well, that that area that you had mentioned with the stone, I think those are the stones they used to lay the foundation. >> I I did see when I was there, I saw that
there were some >> Yeah, he he had asked about it before. I'm sorry, I forgot his name. >> Yeah. So, there are some areas that do have built um foundations, not really foundations, just rock bed with wood around it. Um larger
structures in the town require actual footings when they're installed. So, I'm not sure what would be required from this board as you're storing them there temporarily. Would they require actual um concrete bases? and structures like
that. Thank you. >> Thank you. >> Yes, M. >> I know they they were didn't wave the lighting or something like that on the earlier um testimony. So, in the fall it gets dark at like 4 if there's no
lighting and there's activities till about 8. I I do propose to have some kind of lighting back there for those activities. So there there's currently to the front side of the warehouse
there's a light post there. There's electric going to it that is functional that we have off right now because the top of it doesn't function but it's been there since before we bought the property. So we're going to of course repair that and and that'll be some additional lighting for the front of the warehouse. And then we'd like to do some building mounted lights on both the
warehouse and the back of what would be the shed office for the remainder of the property. And then, you know, as to my neighbors concerns or whatever, I'm hoping that by 8 or 9:00 nobody's doing anything back there anyway. So towards the back end with the landscaper
shouldn't be necessary. But >> so that'll all be depicted when you come back, right, Mr.? >> Yes. >> Yes. Any additional questions or comments? Now, I'm going to go ahead and open it to the public. Please feel free to come
forward at this time. >> Yeah, Miss Mlag, you were sworn before, you're still under oath. >> Okay, great. Um, so you guys answered a lot of my questions and you have a lot of the same concerns I do, but after hearing everything, I'm still concerned, especially when you said tankers. I have
a problem with trucks and tankers and cars and and now you also brought up something which I didn't even think of is landscaping with chemicals and all that. You know, they use chemicals when they landscape people's yards and stuff like that. So, that's a concern again because I have well water. I mean, I
don't want any land to be polluted, but especially since I have well water. And then the lighting. Um I was thinking that earlier and I forgot to mention it like with all those buildings, you know, like they have to have some sort of light like she was saying. it gets dark at 4:00. That's
light that's going to light up my yard and be in my property. And the other thing, and I never complain about it, I'm technically not complaining about it now, but the pizza pod lights, like when I go in my kitchen or in my living room, when the leaves are gone, you know, because right now we're separated by
woods and there's leaves and that's actually nice because it blocks some of the light, it blocks some of the noise, people can't see me, okay? But once the leaves are gone, it's like it's like you're in my yard. You know what I mean? So, the light is always shining in my yard and in my windows and even people's
headlights are. And again, you know, that's but I'm concerned if the whole backyard's lit up with all these different businesses and tenants, that's going to affect my quality of life and privacy and all that other stuff. So, um other than that, you guys seem to have
everything else covered and a privacy fence. I would like an eight foot chain link fence um with slats in it or something so at least I, you know, I can be out my yard. 20 men or guys looking at me that are working back there. So that's not very comfortable. So I think
other than that, if I think of anything else, thanks for having me. >> Thank you, Mr. >> Oh, I was just going to ask Patty if if the proposed fence, if the applicant proposes to do the fence along the property line, would that alleviate some of those issues you just mentioned?
>> I think it would. I I mean it would definitely make me feel safer >> whether it be either vinyl or vinyl privacy solid fence or a chain link with it's solid in nature >> and then I'm not familiar with >> with the height of the proposed lights or anything like that but again maybe
you're just requesting some kind of shielding so it there's no light spillage into your yard >> but but so essentially just some kind of solid privacy fencing and shielding the lights is is the generalized request.
>> Okay. >> I mean, I guess so long as we can get adequate lighting, we could attempt to do it all from the warehouse side pointing in as opposed to the other side. >> Yeah, Graham will >> so long as we can get enough lighting for the the tenants, I think that's more than reasonable.
>> Graham will look at it and we'll we'll have a plan. >> Okay. Thank you guys. Thank you. Anyone else wishing to come forward? Please do so at this time. >> Seeing no one else come forward, we're going to go ahead and close public session. We've already agreed on a date
for you to come back, which is November the 5th. Um, >> and Mr. Alier, I assume you wave the statutory default. >> Yes. >> You need a letter or just on the record? >> Uh, having it on the record is fine. And that date of November 5th will not
require additional notice. Thank you. >> Thank you. >> Thanks everyone. Have a good night. >> Thank you. >> Motion to close >> to adjourn. >> Motion second.