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we're going to call the meeting to order please stand for the Pledge of Allegiance I pledge allegiance to the flag of the United States of America and to the Republic for which it stands one nation under God indivisible with
liberty and justice for this meeting complies with the open public meetings act notice of this meeting has been published in the applicable newspapers and post of the municipal villon okay roll call please Elizabeth
Mr Bry here Mr Heyman here Dr hoffstein here Mr Hudak here miss Parnes here M Rosal here Mr Martins here Mr suches absent Miss Bradley
here okay do we have any resolutions this evening we do not okay I do believe we have a set of minutes though correct Elizabeth yes from Fran Della uh meeting February 5th 2025 I need a motion and second to approve the minutes
thank you thank you roll call please Mr Bry yes Mr Heyman yes Dr hofstein yes Miss Parnes yes Miss Rosal yes Mr Martin's votes no well he wasn't here so no Sor
um Mr Hudak yeah Miss Bradley yes thank you uh I do not have a voucher for this evening Elizabeth no and Miss cyprian we have announcement this evening um yes number three on the
agenda the love to how animal rescue howling Woods Farm application um which had been carried from the December 18th meeting is now being carried to April 2nd with no additional notice
okay and we need to swear in our professionals this evening raise hand you swear that the testimony you will present to this board will be whole Pro the truth yes please your name and position record R board engineer
Peters board planner Jeffrey papor zoning officer okay yes please resolution of the Jackson Zoning Board of adjustment to enter to Executive session is authorized by the open public meetings act for the discussion of uh
matter stumbling from litigation and falling within the attorney client privilege okay I need a motion to go into executive session please so move second we have a motion to Second roll call please Mr brussi yes Mr Hyman yes
Dr hoffstein yes Miss parz yes Miss Rosal yes Mr Martin this for everyone right Mr Martins Mr Hudak yes Miss Bradley yes Mr pulman yes yes
I'm sorry I'm not sure if everyone can hear Mr pman I'm very sorry but we're doing an executive session which is a private meeting in here just to talk about uh limited matters so we'll have to ask you to step out but hopefully we'll keep that as short as possible and
then have everyone R return to the room to step out yes you have to step out and then we'll come and get you once executive session is over I was looking at you guys instead of them because I know they're used to the Dr e e
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e e e e e to order I need a motion in a second to come out of executive session please motion second second all in favor but I
will you don't actually need that oh okay ex session is like a little subset so as soon as you dissolve that you're back at the regular gotcha okay uh do we have any matters for discussion this evening missani not that I'm aware all right and
no administrative approvals so we're going to move on to applicant number one Ben kurlin Frank applicate equities LLC here for a Time extension for preliminary and final major subdivision Mone hold on one second please he's going to bring your
microphone finally talking loud uh as as Madam chair stated we're here seeking the board's approval for a Time extension for a previous approval for a preliminary final major subdivision I have uh Mr Murphy here tonight to just describe um why we need
the extension the approval expired or well the the protection expired uh last year and we're seeking a two-year extension um I was we went through uh Morgan engineering's review letter and we realized that um the extension would
expire at the end of this June so um it would make more sense to have an extension to the following year and Mr Murphy will go into why that makes more sense us yes please raise your hand uh do you
swear that the testimony you will provide to this board with the truth and nothing but the truth I do abely please state your name and position for the sure uh Brian Murphy uh principal at FW Associates licensed engineering planner in state of New Jersey have been before this board number of other boards this
board accept your credentials Mr Murphy thank you very much uh the the application basically where we have all our approvals in place uh what the holdup is is the county is requiring improvements along our Frontage which that isn't an issue uh but then they require a 15 to1 paper on the adjacent
property running back from our property uh that property has never been any development on it so there's never any dedication to the county so their property line actually goes up right up to the edge of pavement of the County Road uh so we need a piece of their
property uh in order to do that paper uh We've contacted them we've gone back and forth with them numerous times and gotten no response um so we had to go through a condemnation process with the county uh the county requires us to do
certain procedures which we've now done um and now it's in the County's hands to basically go through their process of doing a condemnation just so we can do that uh D Cel uh taper or acceleration taper and that's basically the the hold
up again we're kind of at the timing of the County uh right now as far as uh we're at their Mercy Mr Roar any comments yes Mr Murphy if you could please confirm when do you anticipate or how long would do you think you need to
uh get everything finished up I I would hope that the the two-year extension at this point would would do it basically would be a year from this upcoming June I would hope I would think we'd be done by then okay and I did confirm the
resolution of approval date was accurate as the applicants engineer has stated so I I feel the uh the reasoning is appropriate for the extension thank you I question questions for Mr Murphy yes yes uh in your letter that we
received from you it said you were requesting a one-year extension and then it said at the bottom of your letter um that the maximum allowable is to June 15 2025 could you elaborate on that so the the approval is um good for two years
and then we are entitled B under the statute to three one-year extensions um when we submitted the letter we were unaware that the expiration would be this June and given that there's going this this area is going through a condemnation that's going to take some
time um we're not anticipating that they be completed by June and um quite frankly it wouldn't make sense for us to come back in in June just to ask for the same extension thank you sure any other questions Mr
Murphy Mr Peters you have any questions or comments Mr rire coded at all um I think the legal standing is that the applicant has to prove to the reasonable satisfaction of the board that they were barred directly or indirectly from
obtaining all necessary outside approvals I think they've done that now certainly you have discretion is so you want them to come back here two more times with the same explan I mean it's it's a density variance you know if the master plan changes or something like that but I don't think they're I think
they've given you the reasons to ask for the three-year extension I'm sorry I just wanted to clarify because I I I had not understood so you're asking for a the full three-year extension no we're only asking for two okay that that's what I wanted to clarify so you're looking for extension
and just for the board's aware under the statute it runs from the date of the approval which was June 15th it the two years ended um expired June 15 2024 the original application was for an extension to June for one year but that
would only be June 15 2025 so as I understand the request I'm asking for confirmation now it is for a two-year extension which would expire June 15 2026 correct correct any additional questions I'm going to open to the
public at this time seeing that there's no additional questions anyone wishing to come forward please do so seeing no one come forward I'm going to close public session board it's up to us to discussion or a possible motion I'd like to make a motion based
on their professionals and the testimony from alud professionals and they meet the criteria and their outside agencies was holding them up I make a motion to approve second we have a motion on a second roll call please Mr Bry
yes Mr Hyman yes Dr hoffstein yes Miss yes Miss Rosal yes Mr Hudak yes Miss Bradley yes Excuse me yes thank you very much your extensions been granted thank you have a good night we're going to move forward to
applicant number two jcpnl Boswell engineering Inc preliminary and final site plan Arians 3524 good evening my name is Benjamin nadell I'm a partner with the law firm of Saul euwing
appearing on behalf of the applicant Jersey Central Power and Light Company the application before you this evening is for preliminary and final major site plan approval and support of the New Jersey Clean Energy Corridor project more commonly referred to as the njc
project you're going to learn more about about this important utility upgrade project directly from jcpnl representatives in just a few minutes the overall njc project spans through several municipalities throughout ocean Mercer middlex and
Mammoth County Jackson Township is one of those municipalities and the project scope includes the installation of 44 new steel monopoles on concrete foundations along a nearly 4 and 3/4 mile stretch of the utilities existing rof White the utility has existing right
of-way easements that permit jcpnl to redesign rebuild or alter the infrastructure installed in the RightWay and you'll hear from our Witnesses this evening how the existing right of way is being utilized the right of way is not
being expanded there is no condemnation associated with this project in addition to the installation of these new utility structures the project also removes 57 wood pole structures and 24 lattice Towers from the existing
RightWay the corridor is located within seven zoning districts the NC neighborhood commercial Zone the R3 rural residential Zone the r Recreation and open space Zone the R1 single family
residential low density Zone the MF ah7 multifam affordable housing 7 Zone the R15 single family residential medium density Zone and the R20 single family residential medium density Z try try to say that three times in a
row since there are several different zoning districts involved some of the zones do not permit Public Utilities as of right and some of the zones permit Public Utilities as a conditional use in addition the height of the new structures which range from 132 ft to
197 ft exceed the height requirements for all of the zoning districts this requires a D6 variance for these reasons the the applicant is Seeking a D1 use variance D3 conditional use variance and D6 variance relief from the zoning board this evening along with its pre
preliminary and final major site plan approval in support of this application I'll first present the testimony of Larry HOSA first Energy's general manager of planning to explain the njc project scope and its purpose we'll then
call Greg Brown an engineer with Burns and McDonnell the Project's transmission line energy engineer Greg's going to discuss the design in detail surrounding the 44 new steel structures proposed by the application we'll then call Jeffrey
Morris civil engineer with Boswell engineering Jeff is the project site plan engineer to provide an overview of the site plans and to address the specific site plan comments set forth in the review letter we received from your professionals we're then going to call Amy Jones from Duo and Associates the
Project's environmental consultant to provide an overview of the environmental permitting for this project and our Final witness will be Christine Kone from kaone Consulting Group our professional planner to discuss the variant relief being sought by the application so with that unless there's
any questions for me I'll go ahead and call our first witness um it to some extent it's a question but it's also just wanting to uh make sure that the board is aware and the applicant is aware and we're all proceeding under the
same understanding regarding the variances being sought you obviously we had received your uh letter Mr Nadel regarding the uh issue that had been raised um by some of the board professionals suggesting that
there was a need uh for a D2 variance for a um expansion of a non-conforming use we've reviewed the letter and we've had the opportunity and want the board to be aware that that is not an issue issue there is agreement and we are
proceeding on the D variances that were noticed so in some of the zones as Mr Dell said this is not a permitted use that's going to be a D1 looking for the use variants and some these are you uh conditional uses and so those will be D3
there's a D6 for almost all um and so Mr Nel that I think is in accordance with our conversation and your conversation with board professionals but I wanted to make that part of the record is that correct that is correct um additionally in our conversation and I think you had
also had the opportunity not only to review Mr Peter's letter but to speak with the board professionals there's an issue regarding the bulk variances so there was a notice overall for any bulk variances but those variances have not been specified we had discussed and um
we expect that as we go through the requests for the variance of the description of the of um the uh polls or structures to be put up that those issues of any variances that are needed for setbacks
etc for each of those will be put it upon the record correct we're so the the question as to the specific bulk variances and U being able to identify those um so in our
letter we did um mention it was initially our position that the bulk variances since these uses are not permitted um would be subsumed in the use variances so I mean certainly for purposes of notice I agree that they're subsumed and they don't require
individualized notice um to that extent I would agree however I think that the case law is clear that when they're subsumed within their the fact of those bulk variances is still something that could be considered as part of the
criteria by the board so I the expectation is by that by the end of your presentation that this board will be aware of the uh height and exact location and Zone and any variation from
the requirement of that zone for each of these structures yes and so we are on the same page um and I I do want to add I think that conversation will involve some input from your professionals and as well as the board members as well but we will be ready to address those I just
want to make sure at the end of that the board knows where all of these things are and what they look like understood and I will I'll be the first to say that uh this is uh a very unique complex uh application um I can't recall in my career ever having an application that
includes seven different zoning districts um so we are here to to walk everyone through the application we have a great presentation for you um we've had uh several witnesses who have come from out of state for this presentation that is exciting we uh we're really
looking looking forward to uh to presenting this evening than you thank you just to clarify what you just said that that means at the end of the hearing we will know each specific Zone the seven zones what were you approving
separately yes okay yes well and if you don't then you'll have to take that uh lack of information into consideration but the expectation is that you will know um just just one question on that so so if of the seven if one is not
approved then you can't do any of it well and that's that's testimony that are questions that you can ask of uh the professionals okay because we said we're going to do one by one but if anyway it's not on all of nothing well no and I
want to be clear it's not that there will be separate votes on each one they will they will all be presented okay one vote correct okay got it thank you oh uh we'll go ahead and call our first witness Mr
HOSA we'll have Mr HOSA sworn in please uh do you swear that the testimony you provide will be the whole truth and nothing but the truth yes I do and will you state your name and your position for the record my name is Larry
HOSA l a r r e hosa's h o z empa I'm the general manager of plan planning for First Energy oh um I'll go ahead and qualify Mr HOSA um can you please give the board an overview of your educational
background in work history please yes uh many years ago I graduated with the Bachelor of Science degree in electrical engineering from the Pennsylvania State University after I graduated from the University I started working for what was then West pen Power Company in the distribution side of the
business um since that time I now have 38 years with the power industry the last 25 years have mostly been in transmission planning transmission operations and some other support roles um the first part of my career part of that was all in distribution side of the
business so I I've been doing transmission planning for 25 years as an engineer then as a supervisor then as a manager overseeing the work and I'm the general manager of the whole First Energy Planning Group we see all oversee all the analysis and planning for all
the network systems across the First Energy footprint from Toledo Ohio to the Jersey Shore spent a lot of time doing analysis on the New Jersey transmission system for Jersey Central Power and Light so I'm very familiar with the system out here and uh you've appeared before
planning and zoning boards in New Jersey yes I have I have testified before the New Jersey BPU and filed testimony with them I've also appeared before Jefferson Township the township of Rockaway the township of Oldbridge the burough of Allenhurst and the township of
Aberdine thank you Mr I certainly uh I believe that there's a lot of expertise there but I'd like for you to identify what kind of expert you're offering Mr Hosea as sure um so Mr Hosea
you are a licensed uh New Jersey engineer correct yes I am and your licenses are still current and active right yes uh my current license I just renewed last year in April it'll be it expires in in April 2026 right now and
in your uh position at First Energy um your expertise involves planning for in addition to New Jersey all of First Energy utility projects yes that is correct my group plans all the networked
transmission systems for First Energy and all of its subsidiaries so we plan everything from you know 765 or 7 765,000 volts 500,000 volts all the way down to the 23 KV or 23,000 volt system that if it's a networked facility my
team has responsibility for it I think it'll also help for me to add um Mr hosa's job is to tell us why we're here tonight um really we're not going to get into specific uh engineering details just yet but he's he's here to tell the story yeah thank you it wasn't it wasn't
clear thank you yep okay so U Larry can you please provide the board with a general overview of the New Jersey Clean Energy Corridor project in other in other words why is jcpnl here this evening yes uh this project does have a
history and actually goes back to 2018 when Governor Murphy signed an executive order directing the New Jersey Board of Public Utilities to lead a partnership with other state agencies to develop a Statewide clean energy plan in 2019 that
plan was complete the energy master plan was released and included the development of 7,500 megaw of offshore wind generation to be imported by 2035 in 2021 the New Jersey BPU
coordinated with pjm pjm is the regional transmission organization that oversees the operations of the transmission system in this part of the the country so they they joined with PGM to solicit project proposals to build the necessary transmission infrastructure it would
allow New Jersey to meet their energy goals of importing 7,500 megawatts of offshore wind building it's inclusively difficult here so as you start to read a little faster getting okay thank
you so a competitive a competitive window was opened in April 2021 for transmission developers to submit proposals to pjm and the New Jersey BPU for review in November 2022 after comprehensive analysis and evaluations
were completed the New Jersey BPU and PGM selected a solution from all the submitted proposals and PGM and the New Jersey BPU and what they did is they looked at not only the comprehensive proposals that were submitted but they also looked at the pieces and parts of each of those proposals so when they
when they put their final plan together they had pieces and parts of the proposals that they liked basically they created their own proposal to do this based on the pieces and parts that were submitted so jcpnl one of the proposers we rewarded several projects including
the projects that are before the board this evening to achieve that plan thank you and why are these improvements being made to the existing transmission line Corridor what what is the purpose or the reason for these new improvements one of the reasons that the
jcpnl projects were selected by the New Jersey BPU and pjm was the use of existing transmission line corridors by upgrading the transmission lines on the existing corridors new RightWay will not be required and the environmental impact
will be limited to to places where the transmission lines already exist in addition addition the improvements to the transmission infrastructure will not only facilitate the ability of offshore wind to be integrated into the transmission system but the upgraded transmission lines will also provide
increased capacity to the overall transmission Network in this area in other words the benefits of the upgraded transmission lines are not unidirectional power will flow along the transmission line in either direction depending on the system conditions at the
time thank you what type of benefits will be provided after these improvements are installed and more specifically the local benefits to Jackson Township so primarily the benefits to Jackson Township will be the rebuilt
transmission lines that serve a substation in this area called New Prospect Road substation that substation is a distribution substation that is connected directly to one of the 230 KV lines that will be rebuilt so that substation will year improved reliability because of the new
transmission infrastructure being built the other benefit to the Jackson Township will be indirect because the the the primary service to customers in Jackson Township comes off of the 34.5 KV Network system but that system is
tied directly to the 230 KB system which provides the energy to that lower voltage system so by improving the 230 KB transmission lines it will also provide an enhanced reliability to the 34 .5 KV system which does directly serve customers so indirectly from the
230 KV system as improvements will be seen by Jackson Township as well do you know the approximate number of customers uh served in Jackson Township yeah specifically from New Prospect Road substation there is 7,300
customers served from that substation of those 7,300 customers 5,400 of those customers are in Jackson Township so the population of Jackson Township is somewhere just north of 60,000 and I believe based on information that I've
received that that's expected to grow to about 70,000 in the next 5 years so that that growth will need additional energy as well so as we again as we improve the infrastructure on the 230 KV transmission Network that will provide benefit to that 34.5 KV system which
then will be needed to serve those additional customers as well overall I think in uh Jackson Township JCP now has 23,000 customers in Jackson Town that's meters we don't count individual persons I think you touched upon this in your
testimony um do do these improvements only serve Jackson Township residents or do these upgrades also provide service to Residents and businesses outside of Jackson Township these infrastructure improvements are on the transmission system so the transmission system is more or less like a limited access
Highway like an interstate highway or the Garden State Parkway so even though you don't have you know like a normal street you don't have exits or intersections you have on ramps and off ramps and you have the same thing on the transmission system and as an
interstate serves like I95 195 serves Jackson Township there's a number of interchanges in Jackson Township this is similar to the transmission system so th those interchanges provide benefit to Jackson Township but there's a number of other benefits that are provided Beyond
Jackson Township as well so this is very similar to an interstate those benefits will go beyond Jackson Township but it does provide benefit to Jackson Township also thank you that'll conclude our direct testimony for Mr Hosea any questions
M any questions for Mr Hosea Dr Austin you mentioned that uh the the uh improvements you're putting in will be good for 7,000 customers in Jackson approximately directly I said directly being served out of the New
Prospect Road substation in Jackson Township there's 5,000 5,400 customers in Jackson Township out of that substation that's the direct benefit okay and the rest of the town will still keep having the blackouts that we we continually
having well since the rest of the Town won't be included in that a lot of the lot like the most recent power outages that have been experienced by the customers in Jackson Township those aages most of those are occurred on the distribution circuits not the transmission
lines okay so you'll have nothing to do with the nuts and bolts part just just what's coming into the area right we we we will provide the adequate supply of power to the substations that serve those distribution circuits but what happens beyond that point I I can't say
thank you that chair I I have a question I know it's appropriate person to ask just of curiosity the Township's in the process of working on a new master plan I have no idea in the car you're speaking how much growth I agree with you with the
projection for 10 years and all that but that specific area have you been in touch with the people working on a master plan or theyve been in touch with you to determine if this fits in with that now with the new Master Plan coming up which has not been yet done I don't
have any knowledge of the master plan for the township yeah they're working on it now and I believe that they should be checking with the enemies involved for power and you should be checking with them because that should be a key element I don't know what lanes that would change or not you speak is specific Lane and there might be some
changes in the master plan and that in zoning and stuff so I thought you You' want to find out what that is oh uh I'm just going to step in um it it's an important point and um we do have a representative here this evening from jcpnl Mr Bryce who um works very closely
with the municipality um I think he would be the appropriate contct for that and I'm happy to speak with Mr Bryce later this evening about that if we need to have the Township's professionals get in touch with jcpnl thank you Mr HOSA is
from Ohio he doesn't know what we're talking about Miss poris I was just gonna say with um in line with what Dr hofstein was talking to Mr empa about um it's it all sounds great that you know these improvements
will support the growth of Jackson but the distribution issues are I guess not being addressed on this application here tonight um and those and those really do impact Jackson current current residents and also uh the you know the the the new
development but I think that might be outside the scope of this application is is what we're hearing yeah if I may the uh distribution issues are outside the scope I know it's very uh tempting when
you have people from JCP and El actually sitting here to bring all for the all residents including the board members to bring all concerns but this application um really is regarding transmission um but to that point if I may just ask a a
quick question and I got lost a little bit in the testimony but it seemed to me that at some point you were testifying about an indirect benefit to uh regarding enhanced uh reliability for
people beyond the 70 200 or 7500 served by New Prospect is that correct that is correct how so well because the the customers that are served in Jackson Township other than
those served from the New Prospect Road substation so those other customers are served off of the 34.5 KB Network system now that system is also a transmission system it is networked but then it has transformation that then goes down to the distribution level that those are
the distribution lines that run through neighborhoods and go to people's homes and businesses so the 230 KB transmission system provides the energy that then goes into that 34.5 KV Network system so by improving the 230 KV system
indirectly we're providing a better supply to the 34.5 KV system perhaps our Engineers will be able to uh drill down on your testimony in that regard I'm
sorry so I'm just trying to understand what the intention of the capacity upgrade really is you mentioned something about like mandates with the governor uh trying to satisfy certain requirements on a practical level what
exactly is the need and what are we going to accomplish okay I the primary driver for this project was to import offshore wind which is I think is dead which was
part yes we have a contract with the state of New Jersey to build this infrastructure so that as far as I'm concerned the contract is still valid until New Jersey but the intent is dead meaning offshore wind is dead it's not happening that's
my understanding yeah Mr hman I I think in terms of the scope I don't know what's uh intended to feed this project but I think um there were some projects that had been approved I don't know if if you're able
to uh identify what offshore wind project was anticipated to feed this project because that might help in that regard I to me the the wind you know Shore project doesn't really matter I'm just trying to understand
what the gain and benefit will be locally um if there's a need and what will be be accomplishing okay let me start again then okay the primary driver for what we were doing was to import offshore wind
so whatever happens with offshore wind that was the primary driver with what we did so we analy the transmission Network system to say how do we get 7,500 megawatts of offshore wind into the pjm transmission system in New Jersey that was the driver behind our
analysis but as we did that analysis and we identified this proposal which was to upgrade the infrastructure on these transmission corridors that we're talking about today we're upgrading the transmission lines in that Corridor again the primary driver was to bring in the offshore wind but as we're
upgrading that infrastructure it's the 20030 KV lines in that Corridor as well that will be improved they will be rebuilt so they'll be new they'll have higher capacity and as I stated earlier in my testimony that is not unidirectional that power will not flow only in One Direction that power will
flow where it's needed when it's needed depending on system conditions as load on the system changes as the generation dispatch on the system changes as different outages occur or switching occurs on the system those lines will provide the additional capacity to keep
the system reliable and resilient under numerous circumstances regardless of whether offshore wind happens or not so there's a will there be you're saying there will be additional capacity than what there is now there will be more capacity in those lines than what
there is Need for more capacity from a strict reliability perspective Ive there was not a driver to improve those lines using the nerk reliability criteria so we're we're increasing the capacity of those lines again primarily because of the offshore
wind but we do know that with the energy master plan there is a major initiative to get rid of you know fossil fuel Heating and to get rid of you know fossil fuel vehicles and so as that load continues to develop in New Jersey that demand will appear and so this gives us
an opportunity to get ahead of that demand before it appears on the system thank you Mr um I agree I agree with Mr Heyman I've read that the offshore wind projects the um the vendors or the
providers have pulled out and that's really not going to happen right now so it is a a great question of um do we really need this upgrade now uh that that's not going to come to fluid
and um my second question is um if there's going to be any downtime with you installing these new systems and bringing them uh online will that uh will there be planned outages or do you
have a way to continue the power coming through when you're making the cut over one thing I want to address is some of the developers have pulled out not all all of the developers have pulled out so there are still developers that
will utilize this infrastructure for offshore wind importing so think In Our Lifetime we know that're we know those two developers that are still in in the mix that that they still plan on building their offshore wind they will use this infrastructure we're
constructing so I will go back to my statement about this is a networked system so by nerk standards the transmission network has to be able to sustain the loss of any single transmission element and it has to be
transparent to the system in other words there's no loss of power other than people might be connected to the line that goes out and there's no change in dispatch or transfers on the system so the system always has to be able to sustain this the loss of a single transmission element transparent you
know a lot of times we get the question why are we upgrading the transmission system when it's so reliable because we have have to there's a high standard we have to meet when it comes to reliability So based on that we can take any single transmission element out and it's transparent to the system we can
take pieces of this transmission Corridor out rebuild it and it will not be noticed by the rest of the system so there would not be any outages at all um with your upgrade I can't say specifically there would not be there
may be circumstances where we have to cross another electric line of some sort that we may have to take that out of power for a short period of time that may cause interruptions to customers but in general no this will not cause outages to customers thank
you will this new system be able to get uh Source other sources of of uh Power aside from the wind uh turbines could could this be developed to bring in sources from other places is
uh not offshore yes that is a good question so the thing about transmission lines is they do not care where the energy comes from so if that energy is coming from a nuclear plant it will move it just as well as if it was coming from offshore wind so and
again these lines will carry power in either direction so if there's no offshore wind pushing power into the deeper parts of New Jersey there's still going to be loaded on the Jersey Shore that then that that energy will flow across these lines from inside you know
from the western part of New Jersey to the shore so the this line these lines we're going to rebuild will carry the power needed to serve the shore and and will this be constructed to do that right away or will it just be built and wait until you need it it will do it
immediately once they're placed in service they'll be there and they'll be used and useful Mr Bry yes I you said there may be some short or no time frame of intermissions or or power cut off can
you define that better are we talking hours a day or you have any idea how you can judge how much that time off would be that you'd have to cut it have to cross lines I I know it's not an exact but what what you're saying is a short time I can imagine a short time as an hour
somebody might imagine it as a day you might imagine it as two days I'm just trying to get some sort of time frame I I don't really know if I can answer that question because it would depend on the circumstances of where that Interruption is and what the cause of is so for example if we had to cross
a a distribution line that we had to take it out of service to do the work we would arrange it so that Interruption would be and let's call it short which would be several hours and so we we know we don't want to interrupt customers power we try not to do that and we do everything we can to minimize those
especially when we're doing construction work so to say it wouldn't happen I I can't say that but I will say we would do everything in our power to keep those aage is very short thank you may Mr Martin so I have a whole
bunch of questions I've been taking notes but uh let me just ask about this specific one so as a baau installation ba right you would expect a shortterm maybe a shortterm Interruption right an hour two hours 3 hours that's business
as usual right nothing bad happened no mistake nothing like that or are you saying that no business as usual there would be no interruption at all if there is a mistake a line Falls or something maybe that'll take an hour or two to get it back on wh which which situation are you are
you referring to well I I would say most likely both because if if there is a place where we have to take a line out of service as part of business as usual we would do that and that would be a two or three hour Interruption okay if something adverse happens then of course that's I don't know whole other thing
yeah that could be who knows okay I just wanted to make that clear um okay so I'm trying to get to the benefits to the Jackson residence right um and what I heard was I'm going to put the wind
power part aside for for a second right um you mentioned the substation will be more reliable because of this right so that's I can see that being a benefit right and more reliable meaning that we won't lose power because of the
substance is that is that correct that's correct right um anything that happens after that obviously can't do that but this will benefit the substation be more reliable and you said we have to do it so is it reliable right now
yes I guess what I'm trying to how do I quantify more reliable so if it's reliable right now do I need it to be more reliable you know you can't argue with more reliable that's a good thing but what does that really mean
well from from my position where I'm sitting at I know the age of the infrastructure that's out there today and so I know that if I go out there and I take those and I can't remember exactly what the age of it is I'd have to look it up I don't have that in my notes in front of me but those
facilities are aged right they're not brand new and I know if we do this project all those facilities will be brand new and just like a new car compared to a car that's you know 10 or 15 years old it's going to be more reliable just because it's newer just because it's newer okay so it's reliable
today because it's old it could be become unreliable in say a year well this will prevent that because now you know the reliability is going to last longer correct that's what we mean okay that's clear thank you very much um
so you mentioned the other Improvement is that these par lines I think the way you described it was it could go both ways right power comes in and out and it and I think you described that it doesn't even have to be from wind power it could come from anywhere right through these lines could be nuclear
whatever any other source so the lines there now doesn't allow for that you can't bring in wind power sounds like can you bring in other power the lines there today do have capacity to carry the power it's it's on
the system today right so again the driver for this was to bring in a total of 7,500 me gatts of offshore wind off wind so you have a you know a specific location that energy would be coming from and then going into the rest of the
transmission grid okay so so so the lines that are there now would not allow you to bring in Wind those with that wind power not at that volume not at not at that volume right not 7,500 megawatts correct so so it increases the volume
right okay um all right so the final question which I I think most of our residents would would would like to know is this going to help reduce my my energy bill is that a benefit that Jackson can Jackson residents could count on or it's
just what you said more reliability you know kind of things that you're not going to see really if I'm a resident I'm not going to see that but but it's there yeah um you know at the end of the day our residents what they see is one
it's going to be more reliable in the sense that my power is not going to go out well you can't guarantee that because that's after the substation I'll call it and I'm not and my bill I'm not going to see it on my bill either I think is that correct well I I don't
know the rate impact of what these upgrades are going to cost I I do know that these the cost for the offshore wind upgrades is going to be spread across all New Jersey rate payers not just jcpnl not just Jackson Township right I do not know what that rate
impact is I know the Board of Public Utilities did a rate impact study on all these upgrades including the offshore wind developers costs right so that information is available I don't know what that is um okay I so I I can't I can't tell you what the rate impact is
going to be on your bill right right I was actually hoping that it would go the other way where because we're you let's assume because we're using wind now cheaper my my bill could go down but I was open the other way um okay you
answered all my questions thank you the chair so um when I look at equipment and uh infrastructure you usually assign a u estimated life expectancy to that
equipment and the towers and the lines and everything that's there now um has that expected life expectance has it been reached yet are we living on borrowed time with the infrastructure
that's there now um and if we replace it as you're proposing what would the life expectancy be of this these new towers and these new lines that are going
in in my short response to that be yes they have exceeded their existence ing or ex life expectancy so they have basically surpassed what we would expect them to be but we maintain our facilities we don't just let them sit out there and age so we do maintain them
to make sure that they can last as long as we need them to but yes overall they are they have reached their their end of useful life now that doesn't mean they're they're going to be unreliable today or tomorrow but they they've kind of reached that point right so we we would have to do something in the very
near future to address that the lines that were going to the rebuilt infrastructure would have a life expectancy of about 60 years and how long have the ones uh that we have now how long have they been there somewhere in that
range so we're living on borrowed time is what you're saying yes and you're utilizing spit and bubble gum to hold it together no no no that is not what I'm saying we do we do very good job of maintaining our facilities we do regular
inspections of the and replace equipment that needs to be replaced so yes they they will continue to be as reliable as they are but again there's certain inherent parts of that those towers and the poles that are out there that you know we will have to go back and
basically rebuild what's there today very soon okay thank you comment it just sounds like like you're you I don't know if this is on that you're not upgrading the existing equipment that we have and and all the
problems that Jackson is having is just going to continue all you're doing is is building a new infrastructure that basically can't be used 100% uh to solve any of the problems we have now so it's like putting something there that's a
that's a white elephant unless you could come up with uses that that the township could use you said within within 5 years we'll have another 10,000 people how will that help them I mean where you where you're putting this in is not
where the new construction is so how do you resolve that it just sounds like like like this was initiated it was started and uh it's just something that just keeps moving ahead and and can't be stopped I mean what would why can't they
just stop it and put all the money being used and into improving what's needed in the town well I answer your first question first which is how do I resolve that these are beneficial to Jackson Township and I explained that earlier that you know by improving the 230 KV
transmission Network in this area it will improve the service to the underlying system as well which will will improve the reliability and provide the capacity for those 10,000 residents of Jackson Township when they come into this area so that's how I resolve that
in my mind to your second question I don't think I can answer that one Mr hman sorry so I just trying to understand being that there is you know in my mind uh no need for the um
capacity sh winds you know to be able to come here you're saying is that you're upgrading the infrastructure to be able to bring in the capacity of 7,500 megawatts does that mean is without the shorewind turbine
you'll be bringing that here regardless or just has the ability to have that capacity and nothing's really being transmitted and upgraded locally meaning obviously the infrastructure that you're going to put is new so I understand that you know
like sudak was saying it's maybe about 60 years old you'll have new power lines um my understanding is a new substation rebuilt does that mean that we're actually getting a higher capacity brought here
or is it having the ability in the future to be brought here well the the the capacity of the lines will be there once they're constructed so they will be utilized at whatever capacity is needed but then they will also have
additional capacity for the future so we're GNA have my understanding is without the shorewind we're GNA have the existing current capacity that's coming is going to stay the same just has the future ability to bring additional capacity it will have yeah it will have
the ability to bring in more power than what is being used today that's correct so it's not actually being upgraded other than it's new infrastructure well the capacity will be higher than what is there today eventually you're not saying that it will be now no the capacity will
be there what once the once this once the new infrastructure is in place the capacity will be on those lines we will not have to do anything additional right so what are we currently getting and what will we be getting once they're
installed higher capacity transmission lines higher capacity transmission lines than what are there today what is it now and what will it be yeah if I could I I guess the question is you got higher capacity how
much do we need now how much are we getting now what and that's not going to change in the next 5 years so therefore even though the capacity is there we're still not going to get any extra right only when we reach that level these 10,000 more residents right tomorrow you
install it today tomorrow we're going to get exactly the same amount of kilowatts or whatever correct even though the capacity is there we're not going to be using it for another 10 years right I think
that's giving it over going to sit there use it okay one thing I want to qualify here is you know we're not talking about a line that goes One Direction and serves load these are networked
transmission lines so there's an entire grid of 230 KV INF infastructure that connects multiple substations throughout this region so the capacity that's on this particular section is a number of 230 KV lines you know
that have you know hundreds of MVA of capacity on them so we are going to increase that ability and again because it's a network system it doesn't only just benefit Jackson Township but it also provides reliability and resiliency to the other 230 KV system that is
networked together so beyond that going all the way up toward the riton bay and down toward Oyster Creek you know there's a very vast 230 KV Network that these lines help support So to say does Jackson Township need you know x amount
of MVA on this particular transmission line it's hard to say because it's a network system and system conditions change as generation dispatch changes on the system and load patterns change on the system and lines go in and out of service for maintenance or due to
failures you know the flows on those lines change and to have that additional capacity to provide that reliability and resiliency to The Wider grid is a benefit to everybody not just Jackson Township if if if I may just one thing I
I I think I almost got it so one of the benefits is if we had two lines before and they were both you know at capacity uh one falls down you're going to lose power in this case if one falls down because the other one has increased
capacity you can the energy can go through the other line is that right well that is correct but that is that that's the system we have to maintain on the transmission level all the time understood understood but I I I think so we're getting 7,000
right now but through two lines now we're going to be able to do it one line if we have to because the capacity has increased on that one well I think that's the only yeah the driver of the driver of the 7,500 megawatts was the offshore wind that's how we that's what
was driving the the need to upgrade the facilities but the upgraded facilities again it's networked facilities that tie together multiple substations with these higher capacity lines so just to clarify you know for example uh locally if you have have you
know electrical lines in your house or you know in office building stuff like that right so the based off the size of the wire is what kind of capacity it could handle now you don't have to go to the maximum capacity so my understanding is you're trying to upgrade the capacity
meaning if I want to call it let's say the size of the wire so it can handle more going through it but that doesn't mean that I'm going to the max you're just submitting the same amount that we have currently on just thicker lines for
the future ability to handle more capacity is that correct yes that is correct but my job as a planner is looking at the transmission system in the future to make sure that the transmission system in the future is reliable as it is today
or more reliable so my job is to make sure that that reliability gets maintained or improved in the future so I often look at the future and say do I need this capacity this capacity a benefit and I'm telling you you all here tonight that yes this capacity is a
benefit not only to Jackson Township but to The Wider New New Jersey area around here I guess what's happening here is that we're all um smarting a little bit because of um we've all read the
articles about the offshore um wind generation for electricity is probably not going to happen at least not anytime soon and we all just saw in the newspaper that uh Governor Murphy
approved a 20% rate increase that's going to go into effect uh in June so everybody's feeling a little um you know hurt that you know we're paying a lot now and now we're going to get hit with another 20% do we really need this
upgrade that that seems to be the question of everybody here I I believe so do you have any comment on that or if I could just say I mean that's not my consideration at all I'm not taking my personal looking at the
ACT actual application I'm trying to understand what the benefit is in general so my understanding at this point is is that they're going to upgrade infrastructure for future ability to allow more capacity to come
to jaon and additionally it'll be new infrastructure which as a whole will be a benefit to the town it'll be more reliable now you know your concerns and you know with the increases and you know
all that kind of stuff while I I definitely get it and I we we share the same uh you know slap on the pocket but that's not the consideration that I'm taking in and my concern here um it's very much focused on the actual ual
benefit of the upgrading to the infrastructure uh Mr R comments questions yes Mr rempa are you aware if there's any areas surrounding this area that are in need of additional power yes I am and would they would they
be able to draw more power from these increased capacity lines that you're proposing yes they would okay and in layman's terms can you just talk about the physical improvements you're you're proposing it
would be a larger diameter wire is that correct uh we're going to bring up the design engineer next for for the for those types of questions okay that's all I would have at this time any additional question questions questions questions
only okay are there any questions only for this witness from the any members of the public if so please feel free to come forward this is not for comments this is specifically for questions about what's been testified to so far do you swear to tell the truth I Sor
this is not for you to testify it's only for you to ask questions during this time okay so don't need to be sworn because you're only going to be asking questions mrle what kind of radius are we talking that one of these substations covers just
address I'm sorry yes at Bannon 22 iorn Court what kind of radius are we talking that these substations cover how far would they reach out to I am not sure I understand the question when you say radius when the substation is put here instead of over here on this
side of town what kind of ability is this is this substation still going to cover me over on this end of town at or is this going to be more localized to one area of town well that that's really a distribution planning question and I
don't do the distribution planning so I'm not sure what their philosophy is and how they plan their distribution substations I asked that because I used to have a substation outside of my neighborhood and Mr Hof's neighborhood years ago and they took that substation away and I over by Johnson Park and I
don't know why but we are we've got like a concentrated 2,000 homes Sir Mr Ben now I actually do consider that that what you're doing is testifying so you offered to be sworn I'll swear you but I do also caution you that this is a time for questioning of the witness but since
you did make a statement that is a factual basis I will ask that uh you be swear sworn do you swear that the uh any factual testimony that you give to this board will be the truth and nothing about the truth I do thank
you and so and why I'm concerned about this is because you chose New Prospect on one side of town and I'm over here and maybe about 7 miles away I mean what kind of radius are we talking that does this is this going to cover all of Jackson 100 square miles the
substation the the application this evening is for um new steel structures we're the subject of the application is not a substation so if if you have a question for Mr josmo Rel reled to the improvements or his testimony tonight
we're happy to answer those but we're not here to testify as to um substations this evening it's outside the scope of the application okay thank you my name is George laalo address 13 Addison Road in
Hal we didn't dis um sorry question is um can you can you explain the the the new addition the new edition is the 500 kV line and my understanding I don't know if this is testimony but my
understanding was that that was the actual added capacity that we already have a two 130 kV line in place today that's the same capacity can you explain if the extra line that's being added the 530 kV
line is going to benefit or Which towns is that going to benefit and what is the purpose of that line the purpose of the 500 kV line was to bring the offshore wind from The larabe Collector station into the smithburg substation that was the
purpose of the 500 kV line but it's part of that infrastructure upgrade because of the other things that were going on with the offshore wind and that added injection the 230 KV lines in that Corridor had to be upgraded as well so the 230 KV lines are being
upgraded so the sub the larab substation is that is that a is that a planned new substation or existing substation larab the lar JCP now larby substation as it is an existing substation The
larby Collector station would be a new Station built by the offshore developer I see so then I know we one to death already but if we don't have the wind power we're
not really utilizing the fight well I guess the point is sir I'm sorry can I ask you to speak a little more loudly it's not you it's the you're going to install the you're still going to install the 530 kV line correct and that would be in place for potential future
capacity for townships like Jackson and Hal right now JCP now has a contract with pjm and the New Jersey buil Board of Public Utilities to build the infrastructure that is before the board tonight so we're adhering to the contract that we have with those two
entities so the 500 kV line is part of that contract and so as long as that contract is in is active we're going to build what we were asked to build and okay my last question then is so the 530 kV line because that sorry
would that be then more for a future potentially a future uh capacity increase or is it going to be utilized right from day one for Jackson and Hal 500 kV line is being constructed to
import the offshore wind from The larby Collector station so just to clarify so like he's saying the 500 kV line as of now is not going to be used unless the wind does get approved and actually
happens otherwise it's going to be there for future it's not even going to transmit anything until that happens is that correct 500 kV line is part of this project is being built to import the offshore wind from The larby Collector station to the smithburg
substation so if that doesn't happen then it will be sitting dormant I don't I don't know how to answer that question because right now we're like I said we have a contract with the New Jersey Board of Public Utilities and PGM to build this infrastructure so we're building what
they have asked us to build they've directed us to build this infrastructure that's what we're doing I'm just trying to understand the benefit currently um not you know necessarily based on you know this one said or you know
will it bring us now anything but it sounds like the answer is no I I can't speculate on what would happen if offshore wind does not go forward I really don't know what that would entail and what would change with this
project I that's a huge investment you know based off of it's just funny that you know they would do it and you know there's that possibility that nothing will come of it I'm sure it's millions and BR I know billions of the dollars invested um when
it may not come to fruition well I I can tell you as a transmission planner if there was infrastructure in place that I could use to make the system more reliable then I would certainly take advantage of it okay thank you just one more thing
but but right now your mission is to build what you contracted to build nothing more than that that is correct and then what you're contracted to build is something that uses wind power to provide electricity period that that's
that's the mission of of of why you hear in other words you always go back to wind power wind power wind power that's basically what you're building something to use wind power to create electricity
period the primary driver behind is project was to import offshore wind the other upgrades provide System benefit to Jackson Township and Beyond okay that's a question yes so have you guys upgraded in other counties
or is this the first one for the N Jersey CC project so I I can answer that question um so there are uh approximately 14 municipalities um that we will be seeking uh the same approval
that we're seeking this evening from this board and for this project so this is the first one this is the first public hearing yes okay thank you and that was um that was not a uh a planned event we have applications submitted we're um you know we have other hearings
scheduled later in February and March uh this just happened to be the first one that uh you guys had us so thank you can I on those other 14 are they all tied in with the same verbage about the wind supplying the
energy they're all part of the same project correct Mr H yes that's correct thank you okay if I could if I could sorry um aside from you making the application has this been installed in any other
place in New Jersey have you done this replacement anywhere else physically done it can I can I broaden the question is to have we upgraded infrastructure yes we have upgraded infrastructure all
across our system all across New Jersey yes wherever so so you so no matter why so if we get the wind power thing you've upgraded the reliability because you had to in other places right
um where you replaced one size line for a bigger size line you've done that already that is correct okay um can you can you mention what type of towns or anything like that and I'd be curious to what it looks like the the
new um infrastructure so we're we're going to get into that with our next witness we're we're going to show right so so so this upgrade and I guess I'm going to assume had nothing to do with wind power you just needed to upgrade right you've done that already it's it's
not a new project that you've never done before you've done that already in New Jersey so Mr HOSA does jcpnl routinely upgrade its infrastructure uh whether it's uh RightWay improvements structure improvements uh expanding substations
rebuilding substations are there other types of um improvements that have been done by the utility in New Jersey and some examples that you could provide yes we've done uh we we've done quite a few um we buil a new 230 KV transmission
line from the larby substation out the ocean view substation I think that was eight eight years ago yeah and that that's 230 right 23 you're proposing here is to go to 500 did I I don't know if I got lost in the numbers yeah I I don't think we've
done any 500 KB work in so there is nowhere in New Jersey a 500 line 500 KB line no we have them I just I don't think we've done any 500 KV work recently recently yeah um we did expand East Windsor substation not that long
ago but I that might have been 20 years now as you get old time kind of gets funny long time ago okay okay yeah that's what I was trying to get to and so the next question is going to be and wind power aside that upgrade to 500 was
why at that time it wasn't because of wind it was why why did you upgrade to 500 and not 230 not something else well at East wi are substation it's a major source from the 500 KV system into the 230 KV Network system so we needed that
additional capacity to support the 230 KB Network so that was why East Windsor substation was expanded right right okay yeah the reason I'm just trying to get away from the need for this without the wind power part um because I I do agree
that that that's very iffy and if I think about that I would say hold on a second we don't need to be the first first of all and we know there are things changing elections have consequences there are things changing why do it today and not wait a year or
two when we know more about the master plan when we know more about what's happening with the wind power and and all that other stuff that's that's the again I will go back to we have a contract with the New Jersey BPU and pjm
with Milestone dates in it that we have to meet obligations that we have to meet for the contract inert part of that is meeting the inservice date for these projects okay so and and that contract uh so you're obligated to do this right
so if we say no though and you can't do it then how does that hurt does that hurt you does the contract penalize you for that I'm sorry Mr W I don't think that that's really uh within the scope
of what it's here I mean certainly there is they're here for variances so therefore there's it's appropriate to ask about the need for the project and the benefit of it but you know I think that we need to to stay a little bit
more focused on uh that that part of it what is the need for the project um there's been testimony about while they're here that certainly something that the board can uh consider and what the what they're
here seeking is an approval as we're all aware sometimes people get approval and for one reason or another don't pursue it so that's something that also okay thank you exists so um will you be providing uh
expert uh scientific testimony about uh the emission of emfs uh from lines that are now doubled in capacity we we were not intending this evening uh of calling uh I I believe you called it
a specialist in the MF um we well don't you think that that would be a concern of uh doubling the emfs uh straight through Jackson for people that are living underneath these
um these lines wouldn't that be a concern um yeah so I'm I'm going to direct it to to Mr HOSA who has some some knowledge about the EMF for this
project I thought you were asking for a specialist of so thought I thought that you would provide testimony of Mr scientific testimony Mr HOSA can address that okay yeah so first energy does have information that's available on its
website publicly and it's actually this brochure right here and we can provide you a link to that that you can link directly to the PGM we or to the First Energy website certain the board can only consider information that is presented to it okay
so oh oh for for purposes of right now um we if any if any members of the public need direction to that brochure we have the link that we can share with them but um Mr HOSA just generally um
will the project create um any type of EMF in your opinion EMF health risk um for those who may live near the power lines due to um The increased capacity the studies that that I've read and also are referenced in this brochure
do not indicate that there's any adverse health effects from magnetic fields contrary to what I've read we're not getting an expert opinion we're just getting an opinion an opinion of somebody so why just continue with that that if we want one to come down
then they'll have to provide first do we have any additional um do we have any additional questions from Mr Hosea we have anything from our professional Mr Peters would you like to call your next witness thank you um so we'll go ahead
we'll uh call Greg Brown SW in thank you do you swear that the testimony you'll provide to this board is the truth and nothing about the truth and please state your name and position Brown thank you Mr Del did you want to
proceed with his qualifications uh yes Mr Brown uh can you please provide the board with an overview of your educational background and work history please yes I have a back bachor of science um in civil engineering through the Missouri University of Science and
Technology I've worked uh for over 11 years at Burns McDonald as a transmission line engineer been a professional engineer for seven years I've been a professional engineer in New Jersey since 2020 and I've been actively working on the larby smithburg corridor
project since June of 2023 and your current employer Burns McDonald who is an engineering consultant to jcpnl and your New Jersey license is still active and valid yes on through April
2026 um I'd like to submit Mr Brown as a uh New Jersey civil engineer accepts thank you this board accepts as credentials thank you thank you so um Mr Brown I know prior to tonight's hearing you had an opportunity
to review the application the local ordinance the property and the review letter prepared by the board's professionals yes that is correct and I also Dan you're the engineer who oversaw the design of the new steel monopole structures is that correct yes that is correct right um and of course uh you
had you or others under your direction have prepared exhibits uh that we'll be using uh this evening correct yes my team has created uh rendering and uh for exhibits tonight and the application before the board were based on the transmission line design which is
directly under my supervision um should we go ahead and have these two marked um as A1 and A2 all right so um I'm going to Mark A1 uh is our aerial
plan and A2 is our Mr Brown what's a good name for this one we'll call this uh Call It The smithburg larabe Collector station rendering yeah or photo simulation photo simulation that's a
good that's a good word thank you so Mr Brown referring to the exhibit uh which shows the entire right away can you please provide the board with an overview of the transmission line Corridor along with a brief overview of the existing infrastructure along the transmission
Corridor yes so looking at uh exhibit A1 um you can see the corridor follows the Northeast portion of Jackson Township um may be a little bit hard for you guys to see there's um yellow um
shows the existing easements that are in place now and the existing easements are 340 ft in width um up to Larsson Road um and then it is 260 ft in width um and just for a reference right here's uh
Interstate 195 so you can kind of get an idea of where it goes so Jack Township um so as I said a these this is an existing easement um the easements were acquired in the 1950s um and the existing infrastructure
consists of 81 total structures 24 lattice Towers 57 wood poles with guy wires uh these are going to be removed um to rebuild and upgrade within existing rideway to a double circuit 500 KV a double circuit 230 KV transmission
line on steel poles so we also have created um a photo simulation of the existing versus the proposed layout um which is A2 um so this
is a a good General layout of of what it would will look like um just kind of a majority of the time uh there are some some different so just uh with a grain of salt take that but um this is taken
um looking Southeast at Aldrich Road um so we'll start with the existing there are uh two sets of wood pole circuits so this farthest one this would be to the north um is existing 230 kV line on wood
poles um followed by the one next to it uh is an existing 115 on wood poles um that is currently not in service and then this lattice tower that you see are uh both sides this is a
230 kV line and this is a 230 kV line so that looking at the proposed configuration um again left to right is north kind of north to south um or east east to west if you're on
this side um so this would be the 230 KV circuit still on on the leftmost side the 500 KV would be in the middle um and then the 230 kV line um would be on this on the structure to the to the South or
to the right in this photo simulation um as you can see there are fewer structures being installed um they are they are taller than the existing structures due to them being double circuit structures and having to hold
the wires vertically instead of horizontally like the existing uh this simply means that the wires are stacked above each other uh which results in taller structures based on uh phaseo facee or wire to wire clearances um 38 ft is
required between conductors for the 500 KV on this project additionally there are certain shielding requirements uh based um on the potential for a lightning strike this is um required by the independent system operator of the
area which is pjm um and these shielding angles are set by them and so as a result of the angle needed um that requires an additional approximately 26 ft to the top of structure uh that's from the top of the structure to the to the first
conductor um also with these being 500 KV structures they require um additional clearance per the National Electric Safety Code and jcpnl standards U so that's ground clearance for 500 KV is 36 ft um and then we have to account for
wire sag which on these 500 KV wires can be pretty significantly um pretty significant as in 40 to 50 ft midspan um furthermore if there are obstacles or uneven terrain midspan uh this can drive up the structure Heights
to maintain that safe clearance so for all these reasons the new structures are designed to be taller than the existing um but there are less of them thank you Mr Brown um can you please explain especially for those of us who are not familiar with
transmission lines what are new 500 KV and 230 KV wires what exactly do these provide or do for the existing transmission infrastructure yeah so just as an example one Kil volt is 1,000 volts um and our standard voltage for an outlet
in the United States is 12 volts so a 500 kV line carries 500,000 volts which is over 4,000 times what an outlet can output so as um as stated previously it is beneficial to have this kind of capacity built into the
grid additionally these upgraded lines have the ability to transmit more power while utilizing the same RightWay easements and can you please explain the specific design for the new structures being proposed by the application um for
example what does each structure provide how do the improvements contribute to the overall system yes so 44 new polls in Jackson uh each structure provides the ability to hold up new wires and maintain National Electric Safety Code and state
regulations uh this will improve JCP Nail's infrastructure for the existing and future demands of this area while meeting necessary rating and capacity through the new conductor within existing rideway um and continue to maintain safe clearance and reliability to jcpnl
customers do you know when the existing structures were initially installed yes this varies uh starting 1955 to 1965 so 60 to 70 years old and again why are the structures being replaced
now reliability uh replacing aging infrastructure um as that was mentioned um as well as meeting new code requirements that have changed a lot over the past 60 to 70 years um and upgrades to to the 500 kilovolt line uh
replacing these aging structures helps with reliability and provides that necessary upgrade to a higher voltage capacity why are the new structures made of steel there's generally two common types of material used wood and steel um due
to the weight of the conductors and the clearance requirements for a 500 KV project uh wood is not a practical um option as the heights are it's not really um an option that can be considered along with the strength
requirements that are needed um the 500 KV circuit uses three wires per phase for a total of nine wires this results in a much heavier load on the structure Additionally the heights that we are using were able to span longer distances than the existing wood poles and reduce
the number of Steel structures uh tubular steel poles are also selected Ed um with construction considerations in mind um in the strength that provides for increased wire quantity and sizes um and increased
clearances thank you and what is a concrete foundation and why is it being used for the new structures concrete foundation is a drilled Pier that is slightly larger than the diameter of the steel pole itself it goes vertically into the ground to a depth required to support
the structure uh this depth and diameter account for the loading on the structure as well as the soil type that surrounds the structure and there are performance requirements that must be met such as how the much the foundation is allowed to rotate or deflect thank you and I know I had mentioned this briefly before
uh but can you please just confirm will all of the work occur within jcpnl existing transmission line RightWay yes that is correct no additional RightWay will be acquired okay thank you so that'll conclude our direct testimony for Mr Brown
any questions Mr Brown Mr I understand the design uh having one wire on top of each other you have numerous wires one on top of each other um can you explain the safety of that meaning if let's say your top wire goes and it'll drop down onto the next wire
I'm assuming causing more than one line to go bad how does that work meaning if one of them for whatever reason snaps or it's HIIT by lightning and actually you know and it goes right so then it'll instantly drop down and hit the next transmission wire if they
one top of the other I'm just trying to understand the design concept yeah so it's not a for sure thing that the wire would would fall and hit the the next wire down but if one wire was to snap that will that c
circuit will be cut off at from the at the subst not just the one that actually snap but it'll take it down the next one with it I'm assuming it'll short it because you're can to have two lines touching each
other if one if one wire goes down that circuit it will be out thank you yeah so uh yeah so one I'm looking at at these so one circuit um is one side of the the structures okay um
and so there's yeah three phases it's not they're not all independent yeah okay and as far as the uh steel being a conductor how does that work yeah the structures themselves are grounded um at
the base of the pole um and also there these conductors are held up um by insulators so that the electricity um cannot basically jump to the steel pole itself
and their the geometry of these structures is such a way to maintain maintain a safe distance to the steel itself um and allow even allow it's clearly safe to have a you know conductive uh you know steel pole there I mean I'm assuming that the old design
of having wooden um poles was probably for a safety purpose unless it's just you know 60 70 years ago that's what they had but I just you know to me the concept of a steel pole is a little bit uh scary because it's conductor yes but yeah they they are
they are safe and they are grounded okay thank you what what wind speed can can these polls uh withstand before toppling over I mean lately we've had from high winds that we
had the past few days to a couple of tornadoes that touch down in Jackson how how did I W withstand all of all of that yes so uh as I mentioned as these are designed for the new uh newer code
regulations um and one of those is an extreme wind case um which for our steel poles um with Just Wind not considering ice loading but just wind um is 102 miles per hour on the structure itself
which is a lot stronger than than a wood pole would be able to maintain um I don't know if this is a question for you but how long would it take for this project if it was approved to build and you said 44 new structures
but I have here 43 so is it 43 or 44 new structures it's 43 structures 44 poles one one structure is a two- pole structure and how long would that take to build or how long would that project
be like couple months couple years is your question how long is construction going to take okay um so our next witness is our site plan engineer and he's going to talk all about that okay but we we will answer that we will answer that question yes okay thank you
Mr Brown designed the uh the structures y any other questions Mr Brown Mr Marts yes um okay I can't really see that too well but anyway so let's start with help me
with what's there now so I have a picture here I think of what's there now there's the steel structure right you said is that is that live that's running those wires are live and they're running it's working the steel structure
that's there now yes the lattice Tower yeah yes that is is on the right of the existing yeah yep right that's the steel one okay so and how much is running through that both those are 230 KV circuits so so when you say both what do
you mean by yep there's there's one on the right side there's three you see three wires there on the right side the and then there's three on the left okay so all the wires in that one structure is 230 right there's two circuits on the
structure and they're both 230 circuits the wood ones at least on the picture that I have this this looks like um football you know there's two there there's one structure with two poles one structure with two poles what are those
doing today uh likewise the the one to the left here is a 230 KV circuit that is energized and the one in the middle here is the not in service line right now not
in Ser the one in the middle is the not in service okay um and the other one is 23 okay and then again what I'll see those three would be replaced with that one pole that I think is what you're
showing on the post they there's two post so there's there's one here that's um got a 230 KV and a 500 KV and then there's another one that has a 230 circuit okay so so
what you're replacing is just the wood ones that steel one that's running 230 today is that still going that's going to stay no that will also be removed all three go away be replaced by those okay so you're replacing three big structures that's a good thing right three big
structures uh with bigger but it's just one one or two right two um okay got that now you said you said um you do with the new
regulations you have to upgrade right I say the new code yes so with five there's not currently a 500 KV structure out there right now okay here's where I was going so if we didn't do the 500 you would not
need these new structures if we stayed at 230 you would not need the new structures because you need to meet new new code it new coding or because they're damaged or whatever you would not need to do this
correct oh we our prior witness Mr joso that he should be the witness to to answer that question so again M Mr Brown's job is he's told we need you to design these structures and him and his team they design the structures okay because he was saying how the new
structure you know because it's metal is better than the wood and all this stuff um but the only re and I I'll let someone else said but the only reason you need this new structure is because you have heavy W heavier wires now otherwise you
wouldn't need it I I'll let somebody else respond if that's but that's my question heavier wires and and clearances for the 500 KV right but the reason you need the extra clearance is because it's heavier right a sags
more I would think I don't that's okay bottom line is it's not because of new regulations it's not because of new coding it's not because they're damaged or they're Fallen apart it's because the wires you need to put on there are going
to be heavier so you can't use those structures that's my question yes or no only because I have to put it in the question but I'm pretty sure from the testimony that I heard that's the case yeah so as I mentioned these structures
that are existing are 60 to 70 years old um so they are as as we kind of talked about nearing the end of their life cycle um and we are cleaning up the area in the sense like you had mentioned yeah there are fewer structures so we're getting rid of of
81 U structures and replacing with 44 yeah that that that's that's a benefit I give you that yes I I agree um okay um um that's it thank you Mr Peters thank you madam
chair Mr Brown thank you for your testimony um Mr nadell as I get started he he Mr Brown appears to be a a technical witness so I'm going to ask him some technical questions if he's not the right guy please just let us know and I I will mention uh Mr Morris our
site plan engineer who's coming up next uh is ready to address almost all of the comments in your review letter okay but I'm I'm going to ask him some questions regardless and you feel free to cut me off let me do my job and you can course
um Mr Brown when when you design these monopoles many zoning board members are used to the phrase monopole being associated with cellular communication Towers which we understand this is not this is about electricity and the lights
coming on and off but my question is is without having access to the design standards that you've utilized to design these poles do you incorporate what is often referred to as a fall zone inciting the poles within the existing
easements yeah so the the structures themselves are um like I mentioned built to a higher standard um than the existing ones the fall zones themselves we will um discuss with uh
when Jeff Morris comes up okay thank you um again because this is a a fairly unique type of application um I had mentioned when I issued my report to the Mr nadell that sometimes I
put in catchall comments um because sometimes we simply don't know what to ask I don't know how many people here have had a jcpnl Lattis Tower removal project before in Jackson Township I suspect that number is zero so I apologize if I
ask questions that may not sound appropriate in your field um but what other outside agencies might this project have to apply for and receive I'll give you an example is
there a height restriction above which the FAA may say hey you know what on radio towers at a certain height above grade level or a certain height above mean SE level you have to have a flashing light on it so
Jackson Township's ordinance doesn't say what the design standards for new monopoles in 20125 for JCP and LR so I'm trying to get an understanding from you because board members don't know almost what questions to ask of you
because there isn't a set of design standards that are published for this type of work from a land use perspective I understand you're the technical expert this evening but are there are there other outside agencies from a structural perspective whether it's the height the
footing depth the footing design the pole design that you're aware of that the board should have on the record that you're going to comply with you said you're going to comply with nesc the National Electric Safety Code you made a a passing comment about um you're
going to comply with state regulations and nesc requirements is there anything else I almost want to be asking you what else should we be asking you about in terms of compliance with with applicable design standards for this particular
design yeah good question so First Energy policies um would be one of them as well and then regarding your your height restriction yes the FAA is in we do get them involved uh we do file these structures to get um to make sure that
we don't need to Mark or light these structures they generally um don't require or I should say they don't it's if it's 200 ft or below there's no rule sh in place but we do file with them um and then they let us know what steps we
need to take thank you I think that's a safeguard the board members in the public are looking for that is there another big brother agency that should be looking at this what is it are you either going to comply with the standard or go visit with them and get us a permit so that we can put it in our file
so at this point Madam chair I have no additional questions for Mr Brown as it relates to those Outside Agency approvals thank you thank you don't go ahead Mr Nell I just want to make sure because I I know you have additional
Witnesses but um in terms of my earlier expressed concern regarding the bulk variances um and specificity um I don't know if Mr Brown is the right person to be providing testimony about are these all are all
44 Paul's the same height you know what is that height so um I do think it would be helpful uh for when Mr Morris testifies he is the site plan engineer that information was on our site plans he will be covering um the individual
structures um that's really the uh the Crux of of the application and if you can't tell we got a lot of Engineers working on this project and it's important for us to have each uh you know responsible engineer testify as to their role in the overall project so um
but we're we're getting there any additional questions for Mr Brown um I I'm not sure if this is answered before but what is the lifespan of the new polls I know the old ones is about 6070 it's nearing to its end but
how about the new ones did I answer that I mean did I ask that right yes I think so yeah as Mr OA had said um about it's about 60 years um steel poles it does does range and it does depend on uh a
maintenance program that but jcpnl does have a really good one okay mrman so I just was wondering what's the lowest line height meaning to the first line what's that height and what is the clearance around it meaning I see that your existing ones and your
what you're showing on the future ones has clearance all around it um is there any kind of concern for trees falling on the lowest par line is that over the height of it is higher than all the existing trees that are around it and
looks like you have pretty decent clearance around it too yeah so so part of of jcpnl uh routine maintenance is identifying danger trees that have the possibility of falling onto the structures um as I
mentioned um for a 500 kV line 36 feet from uh is the minimum ground clearance you can have from the lowest wire um so as as you mentioned yeah we have 36 ft above ground and these are offset from the r edge of
rway and the 230 KV lines are higher than that the the ground minimum ground clearance for 230 kV line is 29 fet that's yeah the worst case at the like heaviest loaded um possibility of
the wire so majority of the time it is greater than that value okay now Mr Peter addressed the uh full clearance issue that I was going to bring up next um what is with the I think you said it was like a 120 or 150 uh ones that are not in service is the reason why they're
not in service and what was their purpose and are they being replaced putting back into service like what are they and what was if you give us some background Mr brownes have that information I can check wi see thank
you y I'm sorry Mr Bren um just to follow on Mr Hyman's question you had testified that um the had there had to be a 36t ground clearance from the lowest wire to the ground correct yes on the 500 KP correct where does that
standard come from that is a national electric Safety Code um plus a a buffer that is in Ed for um just various unknowns in construction so to Mr Peter's question earlier regarding
standards and and outside entities the I'm sorry what did you say the National Electric Safety Code so that provides the standards yes yes that is the basis for the clearance values that we follow and I think he mentioned that
okay thank you Mr RAR you have any questions for this witness yes Mr Brown if you could just confirm are you aware of the approximate diameter of these
wires yes so 1.33 in um for the um 230 KV um and that is the 230 KV um is not changing diameter um and the 500 k V is
actually a smaller diameter but there are three wires um instead of one the 230 KV has so what is that smaller diameter you said there's three wires but they're smaller so it's not 1.3 in what is what
is the dam that I don't have off the top of my head I'm we can provide that for you that's okay any other questions for Mr Brown you if there are any questions from the
public you can feel free to come forward now and ask your questions do you need my name again or spelling yes please it's George laalo it's spelled l a capital p a l l o the address is 13 Addison Road in
how um there with me a second um the the what is the existing what is the height of the existing lattice Towers sorry between Aldridge Road and
Lon Road do you know the average height of these existing Towers um in Jackson Township uh is I mean specifically between you I think you're D isn't your picture showing the towers between Aldridge and
lson what is the height of those lattice towers do you know I have the for the all of Jackson Township um which is a average approximately 132 feet okay
now the application specifies a range in height of the new uh monopoles the range is somewhere difference of 60 feet I believe why is there a range why can't you specify the
exact height of the new monopoles so um we we are going to discuss the height of of each poll on our site plan it is listed on the first page of our site plan okay on our cover sheet
okay can anything be done to camouflage the monopoles for example painting them a color that would blend in with the environment like black or green I'm not looking for like those fake tree looking poles that's I know those are so Towers but can you do anything like will the
toll will the towers be like a shiny steel or are they going to be painted no yeah jcpnl standard practice is to use the galvanized steel not will not be pain is there a reason you can't paint
them um Mr Brown th those types of uh discussions are with other uh First Energy Representatives so um I don't whiches will'll address that question um if you'd like um we can work
that into our testimony but M Mr Brown's not going to be the witness to to answer that question is the next speaker going to address that or is there somebody else I can contact um so there's there's two answers um we can address it later
or I can introduce you to the representative that's here tonight that can have that conversation with you okay couple more question questions um will jcpnl install a tall sturdy fence with a locking gate around the
base of each monopole to prevent children for example to prevent children from accessing or climbing the monopoles yeah there are no uh fences currently and there are none that are
proposed we we they're climbing would they do have uh ability but those climbing ladders do not start until 20 ft above ground to to prevent that okay I see so you can't really climb the pole
unless is the ladder locked or something so they can't pull it down or correct it's fixed in place okay you'll love this question will there be an increase in the buzzing sound with the addition of
the 500 KV transmission line and if so by how many decibles are we going to in other words is there going to be more noise pollution if I live um within 200 feet or 50 feet of these these new power
lines am I going to hear noise now from these lines like a buzzing noise which is typical of high voltage lines uh so there is noise that comes out of them the New Jersey does have a state limit uh which is 50 DBA at the
edge of the rideway under normal conditions um and so we are meeting those state requirements so my question really is I you know the power lines are on my property behind my house when you install when you do this upgrade and you and and when the 500 kV line is active
along with the exist the other 230 KV lines to two lines am I going to hear buzzing noise that I don't currently hear today are the same yeah like we are meeting State requirements um but I cannot speak to
whether you'll hear those or not from your property my last question has anybody done a study to look at the fact that with the 500 KV transmission line being added this is
can increase the risk of wildfires has anybody done a study to assess that this will not be an issue we are meeting um like like I said we are meeting NC um code requirements um so we're not changing the risk factor of
fire because you're adding a new 500 kV line so you are increasing the risk factor so just something to consider I guess thank you um Mr could you could you clarify or repeat I just
didn't get it what you said the state standard was for the noise was 50 DB from where to the edge of the rideway the edge of the right of way yep thank you we'd like to take a quick Break um so we
can be back at 10: uh I'm sorry no no we just oh yeah sorry as you can tell some of us have to use the bathroom um so we're going to take a quick break we'll be back at 10: traditionally we don't take testimony after 10:30 so we'll see how far we get with your next witness
okay thank you thank you e e e e e e e e e
e e e e e e e e e e
e e e e e order thank you Mr Nell M excuse me Mr Nel your next witness please yes uh so I had previously mentioned uh that Jeff Morris
uh our site plan engineer was going to be our next witness but um given the the late hour um we decided uh it would be a better use of time let's have our environmental consultant Amy Jones uh provide some environmental uh testimony
that's very important um we'll save Mr Morris uh for the next hearing is his testimony is uh more more detailed and more lengthy than Miss Jones so with that we'll have Miss Jones sworn in uh do you uh swear that the testimony
your will be the truth and nothing about the truth I do will youe your name and position uh I'm Amy Jones I'm project manager and Senior biologist with deoy and Associates and uh we are JCP and's environmental
consultant Miss Jones can you please provide the board with an overview of your educational background and work history sure um I graduated from Juni attic College uh with a bachelor in science I have continuing education courses from Rucker University Stockton
University and Shepard College um I have a professional Wetland scientist certification from the Society of wetland scientists I've been environmental consultant for about 23 years prior to that I was a biologist with the fish and wildlife service us
fish and wildlife Service uh I've testified in front of planning board and zoning boards as well as environmental commissions throughout the state so I would uh submit Miss Jones uh as
our environmental consultant yes this board accepts your credentials thank you thank Youk you and M Jones just to confirm uh you reviewed the application the site plans uh the submission materials and of course the review letters issued by the board's
professionals yes so I'd like to uh specifically reference section four uh which is the zoning subsection C conservation Zone overlay section of the Remington and Vernick review letter that's dated February
uh 10th um in this section there's uh several questions relating to environmental permitting um so I'm going to start with uh the first comment which says that all applications for major site plan or major subdivision shall be required to submit a valid njd letter of
interpretation Andor permit which identifies all freshwater wetlands and wetlands buffer transition areas on the property uh to be included in the application um can you please provide the board with an overview as to uh where the project stands with that
permitting sure uh Wetland limits were delineated uh along the entire project route in the field by Deo um and included in a freshwater Wetland General permit number 21 uh which is for above ground utility lines um New Jersey D
reviews and verifies accuracy of the Wetland limits and confirms those Wetland buffers and transition areas as part of the general permit application and approval uh so when you submit directly for a general permit a a letter of interpretation is not a separate
requirement thank you uh and moving a comment to um all Wetlands Wetlands buffers transition areas and riparian buffers must be properly identified and delineated on all submitted plans for major site plan or major subdivision approvals before the application uh can
be deemed complete um as indicated on the dgis Gob there appears to be Wetlands within the project boundaries um can you please provide the board uh with an update as to uh where the project stands with this permitting uh
yes the so the delineated Wetland limits that are shown on the site plans are consistent with the Wetland line um submitted to the D for review and approval as part of that freshwater Wetland General permit number 21 um for comment number three I'm going
to skip as it's indicated uh in the report that ites not apply to this application for comment number four um all required setback shall be taken from the wetlands limits pursuant to the letter of interpretation uh could you
please uh provide the board uh with an explanation as to that comment sure all all setbacks um or or Wetland buffers transition Ries as they call them are included also as part of the general permit 21 and considered and mapped
associated with all of the Wetland limits um due to mapped threaten endangered species along the project route we assumed all wetlands are classified as exceptional resource value and they are associated with the maximum 150 foot buffer which we implemented
along the entire project rout thank you so I'm going to switch gears now and move to uh section five of the review letter which is on page eight for the site plan comments um now I mentioned before that Mr Morris is is
going to address uh quite a number of these comments but there are comments in here that relate to the environmental uh that I would like us to go over the first one is comment C that the applicant should provide testimony regarding uh Outside Agency approvals
for this project um could you please walk the board through the various uh Outside Agency approvals uh with njde sure um as I said we have njd freshwater watland General permit number 21 for the above ground utility lines
that was submitted to the DP on July 15th 2024 and that is pending approval um also submitted to D is a flood Hazard individual permit and hardship exception application also submitted um in July
2024 and that has been approved um dated 11:12 2024 um in addition to DP we have Ocean County Soil Conservation District application uh submitted in September 2024 and that is also pending
approval thank you I'm going to move next to comment I uh which is asking about tree removal is there any tree removal uh associated with this project no no tree removal is required thank you
uh comment L uh States the mtoon river is a njd category 1 water and requires a repairing buffer uh the buffer should be shown on the plans um so yes um the North Branch of matito con river that traverses the
project route um does have a 300t C1 riparian Zone um and that has been considered and will be put on the site plans um prepared by Boswell um these limits are also shown on the D flood Hazard individual permit plans that have
been approved by the EP comment and as in Nancy there are delineated Wetlands areas within the project area the associated Wetland buffers shall be shown on the plans um yes so the 150 foot Wetland
buffers um were provided to um Boswell to be included on the site plans these buffers are also subject to D approval as part of that freshwater Wetland General permit number 21 um per comments we've received to date uh from njde P
that's that has all been determined to be acceptable for comment p d requires major developments which are defined as developments that disturb one or more acres of land or create one qu Acres of new impervious surface to comply with the storm water management rules the
proposed development appears to disturb more than one acre of land creates more than one qu Acres of impervious area therefore it's considered a major development and is required to comply with the storm water management rules can you please uh provide the board uh
with an explanation as to the Project's qualifications as a major development sure so the project is considered a linear development uh as defined in the storm water management rule um in those rules the following linear water runoff
quantity and storm water runoff qual quality requirements and that's at njac 7 colon 8- 5.4 and 5.5 um this States the construction of an above ground utility line provided that the existing
conditions are maintained to the maximum extent practicable um the project will result in no upgrade or it will result in upgrade to the existing utility line and there will be no change in use or in use or the overall conditions of the
overall utility quarter demonstration of the project compliance with the stormw management regulations is not applicable and this has been confirmed by D based on on the flood Hazard individual permit issuance the freshwater Wetland General
permit review to date and we received um engineer confirmation of that before our project submitt thank you um so I'm going to go back to uh comment D which states that the applicant should provide testimony regarding the need for an environmental
impact statement for the project um I do want to note uh for the board um that when jcpnl submitted its initial application U it looked at the checklist which provides that for applications evolving the construction of 20,000
square feet of new floor area or the creation of seven or more New Lots an environmental impact statement shall be provided um jcpnl stated in its submission that the within application did not meet the minimum floor area or the subdivision requirements and
therefore was seeking a waiver from the submission of an environmental impact statement um I do also note uh that Jackson's ordinance need not be prepared in order to evaluate adequately the environmental
impact of a particular project um so Miss Jones just uh in light of uh the ordinance and the checklist requirements uh just in your professional opinion um what are some of the reasons that would uh support an exemption from an
environmental impact statement for this project um so again uh you are correct uh it's our opinion that um the project overall the environmental impacts are minimized through the implementation of numerous best management practices um and these
include um the fact that there is no tree clearing um within the project quor um there will be utilization of matting um for Access and for work pads in all regulated Wetlands buffers and ripering zones uh there will be weekly
Environmental Compliance monitoring um any temporary impacts to um the corridor as a result of access or anything else um will there will be restoration of those areas back to pre-existing conditions um as needed per D and US
fish and wildlife service requirements there will be biological monitoring um during construction um and in addition to that the project will be required to comply with all D and Soil Conservation District
conditions thank you that'll conclude our Direct testim for Miss Jones I sorry um you you mentioned matting and I assume that that is to um uh you're going to have to get like cement trucks
back there to pour the footings for the poles and so forth and that is for them to drive on so as to minimize the damage correct yeah the mat the mats are placed at grade um and they're used for both access and to support you know the the
equipment and and that's also a requirement of the D permitting um that that matting be placed in regulated areas so it's in Wetlands um buffers and riparian zones okay thank you so just to follow up on this question for my own education so you mentioned earlier one
of the other witnesses that there has to be a monitoring and you know upkeep and maintenance do they use that matting for the same type of situations to have to go out check the structures I think as as needed um you know it's a case by
case determination yeah yeah just one question for my education also um and I think it's probably for us our environmental commission do they need to take a look at this and give us some opinion on that
or we can make that decision ourselves you can make that decision yourself on the waiver is that are you're asking about the waiver really who who really has the authority to the decision on the waiver is one to be made by this board okay made by this board um and I don't
know if if the board sees a need for our environmental commission person to take a look at it and agree or not yeah I'm going to defer to Mr Peters you have any questions or comments on that on the E waiver yes I never fool around with the
environmental commission no the um I'm not getting involved with that without sounding like I'm testifying for the applicant um what was read to the ordinance what was read to the record either by the witness or by mrani is they can ask for a waiver
they gave justification they basically said we've met all the big brother requirements Ocean County soils njd we've done all the things that normally when you would go go to the environmental commission they'd say well could you please show us these things
um to the extent that this board feels that the environmental commission um review this I I thought that was something that gets done normally with the site plan that gets submitted so I don't know what the
status of our environmental commission's review of this project is I just don't know it's not something I take care of as it relates to the waiver of the Eis um if there was a comment from the environmental commission says we want to see an e or if the they want the
applicant to at least appear at the meeting and explain what's going on the legal processes as I think Jean explained to us is that this board gets to decide if there's a wer the E so you
can say yes say no or ask the environmental commission for help those are the three options any additional questions I do have some comments questions Miss Jones thank you for your
testimony um and again um to Mr Nell Miss Jones is here as the technical witness as it relates to environmental if I get into the next Witnesses um neck of the woods please just let me know um
Miss Jones you indicated that a number of the permits had been issued are you aware if any of them have been submitted to the board and made part of the record yet I'm not aware uh I know the submissions I believe have been submitted I'm I'm honestly not sure if
we got the flood Hazard permit and I apologize you got to go first because it was 10 o'clock at night so I get to ask you it's I want to get the guy behind you because so my concern is if you have permits please submit them sure um so that we can review them or or you have
them it'd be nice if they were available before the next meeting so I don't have to ask the same questions to the site engineer but if you've got an Loi if you've got a an individual permit for flood Hazard if you have permitting for the the matting all those things to the best of my knowledge have not been
submitted yet yes so we can submit the flood Hazard individual permit um no have they been submitted to the board I I'm not sure I'm saying if they have not been and and I can you know ask um Boswell that I'm not sure if it was in the
package I believe only the applications were submitted with the initial application correct but I thought I heard M Jones say that some permits were issued in September or in 2024 and if they if they were issued I I don't believe they've been submitted yet but um we can certainly provide copies of
those okay um there's no sense in sort of cross-examining Miss Jones as the environmental consultant if the permits were submitted or prepared and submitted by your site civil and if the results of those still need to be added to your
site civil plans um we agree that that's where we're going and I get to ask these questions again of your site civil engineer then I have no additional comments or questions from Miss Jones this evening any additional questions for Miss
Jones okay Mr rire any questions comments from M Jones all right if there's any questions from the public now's your time if you you'd like to come forward okay so Mr perero new date another date and while he's looking at the date
I would just I don't know if this is appropriate or not so you can reprimand me if I'm wrong is it possible for the next hearing when you come back if that can be electronic so it be better to see it clearer uh yes do we bring that to the hearing on a thumb drive is that the best way to um provide it or do we email
it before the yes please try to make sure we get in how much a week sir week so the answer is a thumb a thumb drive yes okay so I'm looking at the same agendas
that I think most of us have in front of us and May sth may seem like a real far way in the distance but that's what I see is our next
available meeting date I'm sorry which date May 7th Madam chair I think it's important to know we're trying to do is to give them a block of time if the applicant wants to come and and sit it every meeting from now until
May and hope we get through applications I think it's fair to put on the record that we have large application scheduled once a month for the next three months we have Adventure Crossing um three and four that's coming back we have
Adventure Crossing one that we've not heard and we have swanborn which is 250 unit project that's also on the agenda with hearing dates all the way up through April correct so it's not we don't want to hear the application it's the idea that we're trying to give them
a larger block of time so we you know let's just start at two hours I don't think there's any agendas between now and them where they wouldn't be sitting here hoping they get on before 9 o' and so I don't have to say to you we only take testimony to a certain time so I agree with what Mr
Peter said to put on the record it's not that we don't want you back sooner it's with what we already have on the agenda it's just difficult to give you a block of time to get your testimony in understood um and I'll I'll certainly defer to the board um in the event those
applic a that are scheduled in you know March or April let's say they get carried or you don't move forward with them and your agenda clears up does it makes sense for us to at least carry our notice maybe to an earlier date just this is just an idea if if you disagree
I understand but this way if Adventure Crossing or another applicant gets carried for one reason or another you don't have an empty agenda we at least have our notice preserved and let's say it doesn't happen then we can always carry our notice again to the May 7th
hearing ing just an idea if it helps the Board I like that idea if we were to carry to the March 19th meeting uh there are two applications on um each has been asked
has asked to be carried for a number of reasons so March 19th and if if they don't get heard then we'll put it on the record that we go to a maybe the May meeting I think it works works for us
and that that let's let's do let's do March 19th and then we'll carry it to you know maybe April or May depending on what happens between then and now so I think that sounds like a good plan okay then so there would be car will carry the
notice till March 19th for now um but we understand that that may not occur and just uh so I jumped G I asked the public come
forward ask questions I want open it to comments at this point if anybody would like come forward to discuss what was discussed tonight I know you already asked some questions I don't know if you have any comments that you'd like to make so seeing none I was going to just I was just waiting I could see he was so
seeing no one come forward you will be able to come back next time but you will be able to come back next time um and questions and comments so seeing no one come forward at this point um I'm going to close public session so go ahead Mr I apologize um
before you carry the notice would it be possible for the to have uh discussion about the E waiver that we're seeking because our professionals need to know if um if what the results of that waiver will be especially now that we're coming back for a second hearing
okay comments thought I think I think you should get the environmental Committee involved Mr Hof you going to say something no I just going to say advis is really advisor
they the last few years they've been behind I hav never seen a report from them and then when I first came on the board we always had a report but the last 10 years or so never questions comments yeah and there's there's no
partic I don't think I've mastered this um there's no particular provision in the code um which provides for the and I'm looking at uh our code the Jackson code now um and the responsibilities of
the environmental commission I know that they have provided input upon request there is nothing in particular that would allow them uh to make a determination or recommendation regarding the Eis waiver itself so you
could certainly if that is something they're still doing and I I did hear that may not be the case um you ask them to weigh in but on the question of that would be on environmental issues generally and not
on the question of the Eis waiver specifically which is up to this board so what are our thoughts do we want to require an Eis do we want to require an Eis or do we want to allow them to have the wayer they're
requesting we should get a response from the environmental commission we could reach out to them and see what they have to say there's a lot of environmentally sensitive areas that this is going through a lot of wetlands I I think that they should
weigh in I don't disagree thoughts comments I think the environmental commission could weigh in at least to give us some guidance okay so Mr it appears that you will not have that
answer on the waiver tonight the board is going to ask the environmental Commission uh to provide that uh input on environmental factors here so I'm sorry I realized that makes it a little more difficult for you but there is no waiver being granted tonight it's not being
denied but the board is not ready to act on that request understood um is it the applicant's responsibility to get in touch with the environmental commission or is that something that's done internally I believe that could be done internally if it if it wasn't already part of the application we can reach I I
made a note and we can reach out thank you and we can get them a copy of our site plan package if if you need more copies all right if addition an additional copy or copies are needed um then um we'll coordinate with Mr papor
thank thank Youk you thank you so we will see you in March hopefully if not we will see you in May and uh did did we carry the notice on the record officially uh I believe we were carrying the notice till
March 19th with that just wanted to make sure we put it on the record I couldn't remember if we did okay that was what on the record but it's good to reiterate you had indicated some concern so thank you the notice is carried till March 19th thank you right
motion to adjourn motion all in favor I thank you thank you okay