That was it. >> Well, the worst part is when we put the salt in, too. And it was >> I thought 80 or 85. It was kind of like, >> oh boy. All right. >> You've been doing that, right? And but that that was the limit. And then >> what?
>> I know. I know. I know. I'm waiting. I'm waiting. I'm waiting. >> No. That's why it's a gamble. stuffy here. Rise for the pledge of allegiance to the flag of the United States of America to the republic for which it
stands. One nation under God, indivisible, with liberty and justice for all. This meeting complies with the open public meetings act. Notice of this meeting had been published on the municipal bulletin board and the applicable publications as required by
law. >> Roll call, please. >> Mr. Heyman, >> here. >> Mr. Martins, >> here. >> Miss Rosal, >> here. >> Mr. Tremor, >> here. >> Miss Cusano, >> here. >> Mr. Seleia, >> here. >> Dr. Hoffstein here. And Miss Bradley's absent.
>> We have one resolution. >> Yes, we have resolution 20264. This is regarding the Port Cone property. um they had already had uh the approval and they had come in um with an
additional and change of uh the plan and the resolution before you complies with all I'm sorry includes all conditions placed on the record. >> Make a motion to approve. >> Second. >> Roll call, please.
>> Mr. Heyman, >> yes. >> Mr. Martins, >> yes. >> Miss Rosal, >> yes. >> Mr. Tremor. >> Yes. >> Mr. Seleia. >> Yes. >> Dr. Hoffstein. >> Thank you. We have two vouchers. Um, one
is for minutes for 36 uh for $100 and another one for that's for 175 for the minutes of 246. >> Motion to approve those those vouchers. Second.
a motion to approve them. Okay. Do >> we have a second? >> Okay. Roll call, please. >> Mr. Heyman, >> yes. >> Mr. Martins, >> yes. >> Mr. Rosal, >> yes. >> Mr. Tremor, >> yes. >> Miss Cusano, >> yes. >> Mr. Seleia, >> yes. >> Dr. Huffstein,
>> yes. Are there any announcements? >> Uh, yes, there are. Um, on your agenda, number one, Stolman. They had requested that that be carried to the February 18th meeting. Uh there would be no additional notice. She uh the applicant
was trying to get some information on moving of the shed if you recall that one when it was first before us. And number four is um is also being moved. We received information today. They're submitting
some additional plans that will be moved to March 4th with no additional notice. Are there any uh that is for discussion? Okay. We were planning on uh part of the reorganization is to appoint a traffic
engineer, but the chairman chairwoman has all the information for us. So, I would move that we carry the this meeting until the March 4th session. >> You need a second. Did you you made that
as a motion? >> Yes, that'll be a motion. Second. >> I'll second that emotion. Yep. That motion. >> Roll call, please. >> Mr. Heyman, >> Mr. Martins, >> yes. >> Miss Rosal, >> yes. >> Mr. Tremor, >> yes. >> Miss Kisano,
>> yes. >> Mr. Selectia. >> Yes. >> Dr. Hoffsy. >> Yes. >> I will start. Uh we'll swear an hour of professionals. >> You swear or affirm that the testimony you will give to this board will be the truth and nothing but the truth? >> I do. >> I do.
>> Please state your name and position for the record. >> Mark Roire, board engineer. >> Ernie Peters, board planner. >> Gina Tumalo, acting zoning officer. >> Thank you. Um I'll calling the applications. The first
uh application is James H use our day avenue for an amended site plan. Body present for this application. >> Okay. Well, you know, in terms of that, um the acoustics in this room and even
with the new equipment, the uh the sound quality is not good and I can't speak for the board, but I can speak for myself often have trouble hearing. So, we would ask that you and all witnesses speak direct directly into the microphone. Thank you.
>> Yes, we did. Hello. Okay. Peter Lefredo on behalf of the applicant. Um, I know this matter came before the board. There was a little bit of a hearing. Uh,
I don't know if all of the board members are the same from then. probably not. Um, so I will go through a little >> If it was more than about a month ago, then no, it's not all the same. So >> well, it was definitely more than a month ago. >> So assume assume that you need to start from the beginning.
>> Yeah. So this particular property in question um in 1983 um had planning board approval for the construction of a warehouse office space parking. Um, with that, my client had a
plumbing business that he operates there. There's a showroom. Uh, in 2011, he received planning board approval for the construction of a material equipment pole barn storage building. Uh, there were some existing trailers on there which were permitted to be uh, continue
to utilize there. Uh we're coming now before the board because there is a portion of this property uh which you will see or have seen in any of the plans that have been submitted uh with regards to an area that is open. And
what he wants to do is allow that to be rented out to third party vendors. Um that's the simple part of the application. The more difficult part um in dealing with it for you is
that I do not have specifically uh to come before the board and say you know what we have this person who wants to rent it out. This is how they want to use it and this is the way it's going to be used specifically so that you have all of that right in hand right there
right now. What it is is that my client was approached by different things. So, I'm going to kind of give you an idea of what we're looking at and then go in things that what we're not looking to do and then work with you to try and fix this plan and allow this application to
be approved. So, one of the things or individuals that have contacted my client at one point in time was like a repo company. What they wanted to do was they wanted to repo vehicles and they wanted to put them into the area that we have and then they would be there for a short period of time and then the banks
would come or they would be removed from there but it was a repo company. We've had other excavators ask us if they can store their large equipment on the property. Um we've had landscapers who have approached us about putting their
trailers and things equipment again equipment there. Some companies want other companies are storing their equipment trailers storage bins and things of that nature. And we've had some neighboring companies that are around in that vicinity that
need parking and ask for parking in that area. Um, so that's where this has begun and that's where we're starting from. From there, I would say things we're not going to do. I
mentioned landscapers. We are not allowing mulch, grass, stone, or anything that's raw material from third party vendors to be stored on the property. That's not what we want. We want to keep the property maintained and
clean. So we we're staying away from any of that piping and all that that's loose from any other outside vendors. Those would have to be in storage facilities that they would leave there a trailer of some sort. Um what we are not dealing with excuse me. So you would have a a
landscape company but they can't do the outdoor storage that you >> right. They would be putting more of their trailers there. Maybe they maybe they can't take their their trailers that have their mowers in it and they want to bring it there and they're going to put something there like that or maybe they have other supplies that they want to put in there in a storage bin.
We are not allowing raw material to be onto the ground or anything like that being stored there. >> But you would allow raw material within trailers on the property. >> Uh there there's a possibility if there's something like that. I don't know unless there's a prohibition by this board and we would again follow
what the board does. We're not trying to do anything out in in regards to that. But if there was a way that they had some sort of raw material, if they have their piping, if they have their electrical supplies and all that, they're putting it in a bin. We're not going to stop that. I don't know that they really can store mulch or anything in a in a bin like that. But I'm not,
you know, it's not a field that I'm particularly in. Uh something would have to be brought to us and we'd have to deal with that. But again, if there's any prohibitions by this board, we're trying to work with you in that regard so that we all can have a situation that can be regulated by everybody. Uh we're
trying to make it as easy as possible in that regard. One, there will be no utilities brought to that area, so there's going to be no repair work, construction work outside, you know, somebody bringing their car there and doing repair work or anything like that. We're going to have no living
facilities. Just say somebody was going to put a they repo a mobile home or something like that and it's there. No living. You can't live there. We don't want anybody coming in there with a truck that's going to sleep there overnight. We don't want any of that. What we're really looking for is individuals that were coming to us that
were really asking to store vehicles, cars, if in a repo case, whatever they were going to repo uh and put in that place for a short period of time. Um no hazardous materials that we're dealing with. We're not we're not looking to store hazardous materials. Obviously, if
a landscaper there and leave is leaving a mower there, there's going to be some gas in in the particular thing, but it's not going to be a storage for any type of hazardous material. Those are the things we're not doing. Um, that brings us to where, as I said, that's the more
difficult spot because I can't tell you specifically, we have somebody who's giving us 10 trailers. Here's how we're going to lay them out. Here's where the positioning we're going to put them in. and go from there. But could we get that? Yes, we could. Could we have a repo person who's bringing their
vehicles there? Yes. Can I tell you how many? No. Can I tell you the neighbor next door how many cars he wants to park there right now? No. But we would we would make the plan and that what we're trying to do is facilitate that plan. We have taken the area and we've broken it up into half. So, it was one big gated
area. It's broken into two. Now, part of that was to keep some of that control, keep some consistency, and not have a hazard area where things are just being thrown in there. My client needs to maintain this. And if you've been to the site and you've seen his his facility,
I'm going to dub him as a clean freak. Um, because he's very meticulous in what he wants and trying to keep it clean and that's what he's trying to do. There was a discussion in the previous hearing here about there is a dumpster
on site. Um there was some discussion about that and I know that will come up later. Uh but in this particular area where we have the gated areas, my client is not going to put a dumpster in there. Uh there was some comment about thinking he was no. What he
basically will do is put some garbage cans in there that'll be attached to the fence so that when you're dealing with this, again, I'm thinking of workers who are coming there in the morning picking up their stuff. They stopped at McDonald's, Burger King, or wherever, got some of their breakfast. They might have some cups, paper that they want to throw away. We'll have some trash bins
in there to which he would then clean up for himself. In that regard, there are two entrances into the facility. One that's on the Edison portion of the road, and they can enter into that one. The other one is on Sterling where you would enter into the front. Those those
two separate entrances are there. Uh my client would be probably putting them some sort of combination lock depending on who's there so that the people can access it but so that it also can be locked. Um those are going to be things that we're going to deal with. I do have
witnesses here uh that will be talking more of the technical aspect of it uh and I will have them uh brought up uh to go through the technical things. But I will stop right here if there's questions that I can answer um on behalf
of my client. >> If you're storing uh cars or trailers, uh what kind of ground coverage will you have? concrete or or >> well right now that's a stone area. That's it. And that's that's all it's going to be.
>> The the area in question is stoned. >> How thick is is the stone? >> That I would leave for the more technical aspect. Um uh they will address the the depth and the the the stoning itself. But my client has put quite a bit of stone there. Well, I
think what we would be concerned about would be the any leakage from your containers, trailers, or whatever you have there. >> Understand? >> So, it would have to be something that uh would prevent any leakage into the ground. >> Okay.
>> Mr. Alfredo just because of and and you've sort of acknowledged the kind of the difficulty that you can identify what you're not going to do but having uh more difficulty or certainly being more open in terms of what you are doing. How are you what what what is the
approval that you are seeking from this board? >> The I I believe the actual issue is a use variance to allow us to um rent the area out to third party vendors. >> Okay. I mean, that's really what it comes down to because if it was for him, he would be able to use that various
facility on his own because it's his own. However, to use it for third party vendors to lease it out to do anything like that, we would need a use variance. >> And are you looking for any C variances in conjunction with that? >> Say that again. I'm sorry.
>> I'm sorry. Are you looking for any C variances in conjunction with use variance? >> Yes. to do with that. >> Yeah, if there's non-technical questions, I will certainly try to answer them. If they become technical, I will leave them for the planner and the
engineer that we have. Um, if that's okay. >> Um, oh, sorry. Okay. I do have a nontechnical question. Um and I think it goes along uh with what uh our lawyer
had mentioned. So I understand your predicament that you basically it's not leased yet, right? So how do you give us some usage um information? The fact too is even if you did you can then lease it, you know, a year, two years later
you lease it, then the usage of it in theory would change because you get someone new, right? I'm trying to follow you. >> Right. So when you So let's say you get the repo guy. >> Correct. >> How long is that lease? >> Again, we we don't have one, so I can't
tell you. But you're absolutely correct. In in one year, I could have a repo guy. The next year I he could be gone and out of the picture and all of a sudden somebody comes in and wants to rent out with a bigger machinery and equipment or trailers that they want to put in there, which would change that thing. And that's where
>> part of my >> understanding of of the issue or the concern is how do you deal with that? >> Yes. >> And that's what I'm trying to work with the board so that we have a generalized plan, right? Because I think the plan has to be more generalized because I don't have
>> specifically to say to you this is exactly what's going there. It's staying there and no and it's never going to change. >> Yeah. And and then so and and and so I as why I ask you that is and that's okay, right? because it would have changed anyway, right? What I am and you and you brought it up is what you're not
going to do. >> Correct? >> So, so my question to you is how do you enforce that? How do I know that 10 years from now what you told me today you're not going to do? All of a sudden you get a a great client, a great and and then you're going to start >> gonna have a resolution that's drafted
up and and within your resolution you can certainly have restrictions on what we cannot do and what we're telling you that we cannot do and that would be part of the resolution which would remain on file and obviously be there. So that's why I kind of laid out some of those things. We want to stay within the
confines of what the board has approved has approved maybe in the past and all for instance I think there was a discussion at the last hearing um about storage containers okay and then the question was oh well are you going to stack them well we have no plans on that if if within the jurisdiction it's
already been established that you can't stack them well we're not going to stack them >> yep >> if within your jurisdiction you said oh you can stack one but that's it then I would say at at worst case scenario that's what but we have no plans for that. >> Yep. >> So, we're trying to work with the board
and I understand a bit of the difficulty in that. I listened to the hearing that happened back in March of 2025. So, I I I'm cognizant of where that's a difficulty and that's why I brought it right up in the front. There's our issue, but these are the people who have
at least approached us. These are the things we're looking at and these are the we're trying to keep within the confines of those. raise the issue now of of what do you do on the ground surface? Again, that might be more technical things. >> Okay. Um yeah, let me just so so why I
bring so why I bring that up. You never know when it's too loud and not loud enough. Um so the the 100% where you're saying nope, just never going to happen. I this is not going to happen. You have that in writing so that we can add it to the resolution or are we supposed or are
you just taking notes right now? >> I'm just taking notes. >> How does that works? >> Yeah, that sort of Yeah, >> the good and bad. Well, >> I'm being really generous when I describe it that way. But right now, what we're doing or what I'm doing is
taking notes on all of these >> limitations that are being proposed as something the board may want to include as a condition. >> Yeah. >> If we get to that point. >> Okay. Right. Because you're kind of listing out a few. There's probably
more. Right. So, I don't know that what you just said was all inclusive. Give Give me just one second. I'm going to go there. Um, because those restrictions, will they be part of the lease? Whoever you listening to, hey, no sand, no this, no that, that will all be part of the
lease. >> My client will have to draft a lease that is going to do because it has to protect him. So, yes, we will have things of that nature in there as well. >> Okay. >> Yes. >> Okay. Because I understand about the resolution, but really if you put it on the lease, then that's a whole other story, right? Then we know that you're
going to, you know, obviously enforce it. >> Correct. And that's part of the issue of what we're doing because as we go through this application, you're going to say, "Well, how are you leasing this?" I don't know yet because I I may get a person and I may say, "I'm going to split the FAR section of the thing in half. You get that half. We're going to
have to designate it when he does his lease in am I envisioning it? I'm envisioning him have a little plan and say this is yours and you get that space and this is his and he gets that space and we're gonna have to deal with it in that. So our leases are going to have to be dealt with in that regard and they
will have to list things you cannot do as we would. >> Right. You'll have a section of things you cannot do. Correct. Gotcha. Okay. So my only point is it would I think would be helpful for all of us if you had that list in writing so that we can add it to the resolution and it's all inclusive.
Uh but that's just the thought. I don't know. >> Not to say that I have one, but again, as as it's developing, there will be a list, and that list may grow and grow as to what we don't want on the property and how we're going to do that. Um, but other than what I was initially throwing
out to you, and obviously during this discussion, there may be other things that we come up and say, okay, that's on the list. We're not going to do that. Uh, yes, we might do this. This is on the list. We might do that, but I I would say that's there because we want to work with you. That's the whole point. We're trying to work with the board and hope that the board will Mr.
Chairman, if I might, while I appreciate Mr. Lefredo being upfront about what they >> they want to do, they don't want to do. I'd like to remind the board that the proof is their responsibility, not the boards. Okay? I'm concern I don't want the board
members to start talking about conditions of approval when we haven't heard any testimony from a witness other than the applicant's attorney, which isn't in writing. So, I'm not sure if it's really evidence or not. He just said this. My client tells me I'm he's going to do, but we don't have it writing.
And yet, we want to talk about conditions of approval. Let's not prejudge the application. Let's hear the witnesses. Let's figure out what we have concerns over and let's bring them up after we've heard the testimony because yes, are there issues about what
these aren't going to be? Yes, we we we got off to a good start. Here's what they want to do. Here's what they don't want to do. That's good. That means that from the March 24 until today, they listen. They have an understanding. Will our board attorney say, "Hey, listen. When we're done with the applica
the hearing this evening or the the testimony this evening, maybe we take a break and get a draft from the applicant of what they're going to do and not do because all we have so far, respectfully, is the attorney's comments, which isn't testimony. You guys haven't seen it yet. So, I
think you need to see that before you make an informed decision on the application as it relates to enforcement. Let's get their proofs on the record for the use because at the end of the day, enforcement shouldn't be the town's problem. It should be the applicant's
problem. Are we going to go see the guy who's putting a landscape? Are we going to see the owner of this property? We're not here to make the applicant's job easier. We're here to make the zoning officer's job easier. put forth what we're going to do on the property.
So, I didn't mean to jump in and be sort of hard-nosed about it, but let's hear the testimony first before we start talking about the conditions of of they've done a good job in terms of since they were here last about what the board members at that point were
concerned about, but I'm not sure we ever got to the proofs that this is a use variance application. What they're proposing is not permitted. So, let's talk about all the things the board members have started to talk about. Stone parking area, motor vehicles on it, all that's do it after we hear testimony.
>> Thank you. >> I don't disagree. Um and and part of mine was during the discussion, meaning during this entire hearing. I'm not asking the board to come up and make decisions or or conditions on it, but I know that you may after you hear everything have conditions you want to
put on. So, I want to make it clear. I do agree 100%. Um, and what I have put on the record, I have no problem of at this point if the board wishes or I will do it. I can call Mr. uh Hughes up who kid is the owner of the property and he
can confirm what I've test what I've at least put out to the board of what we're willing to do, not willing to do. So, you can hear at least his testimony from that. I can then bring up all of the uh engineers and the planner and they can go through the technical reviews based on the letters that have come through.
And then from there, you may have other questions and other issues to concerns that we can all address. >> Well, Mr. Lefredo, you are the master of your own application, so you decide who we should hear from first. >> No, I agree with you that I am the master of that, but I was just trying to move it along. And I would have Mr.
Hughes come on up. Yes. >> Would you please raise for your right hand? Do you swear or affirm that the testimony you will give before this board will be the truth and nothing but the truth? And will you state your name for the record and in preferably into the microphone?
>> James W. Use. >> Thank you. Okay, Mr. Hughes, uh you you've heard my uh opening discussion with the board. So, first thing uh first, are you the owner of the property? >> Yes, I am. >> Okay. And what do you do on that particular property? >> I do plumbing.
>> Okay. And so, you have a showroom on there. Uh as well as uh some uh facilities to store your materials and all that. >> Yes. >> You have an area in the back to which you are looking to maybe rent out to third party vendors. Is that correct? >> That's correct. >> Okay. Some of the things that you've
heard me state uh in the original thing and I want you to confirm that that'd be true. Uh number one, you are not going to bring any utilities to that area uh where you're going to rent to third party individuals. Correct? >> Yes.
>> Okay. Uh you are not going to uh allow the storing of any hazardous waste or products in the general sense. But if somebody uh like a landscaper has a lawn mower that they're leaving there in their trailer, obviously there will be some gas in there. But you're you're
going to allow that. But you will not allow the storing of hazardous any waste or materials there. >> Yes. >> You will have no third party vendors utilizing any um raw materials that'll be left on the ground. That would include um wiring, plumbing, uh supplies
other than of course your own, but there's um no mulch, no grass, no stone where they're using this raw material that's just sitting on the ground. >> No. >> Okay. You're going to have no one there that any type of living situation where anybody can uh stay there overnight or
anything? >> No. >> And you wouldn't have any situations of people just sleeping there overnight? >> No, I don't. No intentions at all. Your your intent is really to allow people to store machinery, storage trailers,
vehicles in that area. >> Yes. >> Uh you currently have no particular lease in place with anyone uh at this time. >> No. >> But you have been approached by individuals in the repo uh business
excav is that true? >> Yes, I have. >> Excavators >> and uh people across the street from me. They own the uh the dumps, you know, they got garbage people and they have a lot of vehicles and they park them on the side of the road and they want to be able to park them in my parking lot
because, you know, people they're all parking the road and you can't get through them on the road. And when you're when you're going to deal with this situation where obviously you're going to start renting out and start renting out areas, um are you going to have a lease in place? >> Yes, I will.
>> Okay. And will within that lease uh is it your testimony that you will put in there things that they cannot do in that area? >> Yes, they can't do. >> Okay. And in these two areas that you have um there is right now uh they're
open, but you intend to have garbage cans put into there. Yes. >> Uh that would allow anybody to throw in small, you know, cups, papers, and things of that nature. >> That was my intention. >> Okay. All right. Uh, that is all that I have for him
right now. I don't know if the board has any questions. >> Is that microphone on? >> I think it is. >> Yeah, you just got to keep it. >> You just have to keep it really close to your mouth. I'm sorry. Okay. >> I don't know if you have any questions for him. Um, >> I I have a couple of questions. Who is
going to maintain the whole site? >> I will. >> So, you will keep an eye on all the people who >> Yes, I will. I'm there. I'm there every >> Okay. How how many businesses do you anticipate having?
>> You have two sections. Will it be two businesses? Will you have multiple businesses? >> I I don't know at this time. I I have a large piece of property there and I can section off. >> I think and he can can he can allow me to do that and he can confirm it or deny
it. in the sense that um we don't know right this minute if we get one person in the one section and says hey we want to take the entire section then he's going to rent it out to the one person. Um so in theory we can have two we could have four because someone might want
half and the other half. Outside of that it gets a little bit more cumbersome and that's why we're we're trying to keep it into an area where we can deal with it and manage it because he's got to manage that and take care of it. So I don't want to say to you, oh it's only going to be one over here and one over there
because there potentially could be four even six. You could probably break it up into thirds. >> So Mr. Lefredo like help us understand this whether it's one tenant or 16 tenants at some point in time who's responsible to make sure that they have
access parking areas safe routes into and out of the site. In other words, my concern and I I promise I'm not trying to beat your client up, but we have a site plan for a blank stone area that if we have once we get
past two people, that's more than one per entrance. Now all of a sudden, if there's a fire, how do I fight the fire? Because this guy's got a fenced in area and this gal's got a fenced in area. And so, >> no, no, no. I think I think you're you're you're you're jumping to one conclusion that we're not in. when they
come in, we're not fencing off the areas that they're in. The the there's there's two fenced areas right now and the one is wide open and the other one is open. One you enter in I believe it's Enston Avenue, the other one you enter in on
Sterling Avenue. So those would be the only two entrances and to the extent that my client would be putting in some sort of a lock and probably something that has a combination of sorts, those individuals would be able to access into that. We have again it's stone so it's
it's it's a little bit difficult. We certainly will and I'll let the engineers and the planner talk about that a little bit more about maintaining stuff because yes you are correct. We have to maintain an area for them to get in. We have to maintain an area for them to get out. Which means when we're
setting up these leases and where they're going, we have to designate that specifically and put them in a corner here and a corner over there so that there's an opening in and out. But understand now you've just you've asked this board to transfer the
responsibility for site plan for that area to your client to some degree. To some degree we're trying to put down a plan and we're going to try and work that plan out. But if I had something specific for you to say as I said if there's here he's here
the way we're putting the trailers in. I understand your point >> and I understand the highest and best use of the property. I'm not debating that. There's a concern you're here for a use variance application, but we're really not going to discuss the site plan because it's based upon the tenant you're going to get.
>> A part of that is correct. And that may be a discussion that this when the technical engineer and planner come up, that may be more of a discussion that they're going to have for that and to address that issue and to set up a plan that works. Well, I I think think we're we're we're getting ahead of ourselves.
I mean, you're you're taking possibility four or five businesses. Some of them will be on one of those two areas or there may be three or four on some of those areas. They won't even be separate from each other. They're going to coingle.
I mean, if you're going to have repos and you may have a tractor trailer mixed in with them. I mean, how how do we make a decision bas based on that? Um, >> I don't know if the board has to make a decision as to whether I have cars and
trailers in one one area as opposed to >> what I think is being raised as a plan that allows access in, out, and how you're going to uh put these spots. So, for instance, if there's an area I might, and there may be a discussion about that, hey, we're not going to have
any trailers in the back end and we're only going to have trailers in the front end and we're going to put them this way and here's how they're going to get in and here's how they're going to get out and that will be a plan that's that's set out for a site plan that you can work with, look at, and
enforce if need be. >> So, Mr. Sure. Uh ju just to clarify something here. I'm hearing from you a couple times what we're not going to do as Mr. Peters so eloquently said, what will you do? It sounds to me like all you're asking for is for vehicular
storage on this lot. Is that correct? >> Vehicles, you know, heavier equipment and storage facilities like a storage. >> So, it's motor vehicles >> and motor vehicles. Yeah. >> So, are we stipulating that it's specifically for that and nothing else? Because that's what it sounds like
you're telling me. Just instead of, you know, going through each and every last detail of what we're >> not going to do, it sounds like just ask what you want to do. >> But your storage containers, they're not motor vehicles. They're storage containers. >> So, and we did say that we we've always said that they're storage containers that that can be put there as well.
>> No, you're what you what I what I understand and to Mr. Peter's point earlier, I know that you'll be putting up other witnesses, but my understanding on what you've said thus far is that you're looking for an approval that would allow you to lease to a third party vendor for machinery
andor vehicles andor trailer service. >> Yes. >> Okay. So then to the other point is um the general application that we get here does have a site plan. As Mr. Peters was saying very clearly the board does want to see a clear plan to make sure that
it's safe that you know vehicles of larger size smaller that shouldn't be the rush hour game. You got to pull in and pull out and maneuver you know one way or the other to be able to get out. I understand that for your for the applicant they don't they want it to be safe and all but part of this
application should be a clear delineation of this area is for this this here is for that. We know that clearly, you know, emergency services can get in in case of an emergency. So I I think this in my opinion it sounds as of now very general. I think we need to
get a lot more specific um for the site plan >> and I would let that also come with our engineer planner. They have may more of the technical aspects and they may have more of an answer for that uh than I do personally. >> Okay. Let me ask you something. I'm sorry. Let me just ask you. Are you
asking for a bifocated application? Do you want a a use variant? Asking for a use variance today and then come back with a site plan. Is that what you're asking for? >> No, we didn't ask that. And I would let that be more for the uh the technical
aspects of the engineer and the planner of what they what they're planning >> because you are also asking for an amended site plan. >> Yes, there's an amended site plan as well. Yes. We just hear your professionals and I don't >> I will bring them on. That's why I said I I just wanted to know if anybody had a
question for my client that was not technical in nature. >> Not at this time though if we have some later hopefully Mr. Hughes would be willing to return. >> Understood. So then I would bring up um the two professionals. I'll have them both sworn in if if if and their
qualifications put on the record and then if acceptable have them both sworn in. >> Okay. >> Yeah. Uh could you please uh raise your right hand? Do you swear or affirm that the testimony you'll give this board will be
the truth and nothing but the truth? >> Yes, I do. >> And you and you, sir? >> Okay. >> Yes, I do. >> And just uh for for ease, if we could have one of the professionals put your
name and credentials on the record at a time. I believe you're going to testify first and how will I put my name and credentials on the record when I'm going to Okay. >> Could you speak into the mic microphone? >> Yes. Um my name is Barbara. I'll be presenting the planning testimony. Uh
but I was going to let the engineer introduce himself his qualifications and then when I come up to testify, I'll go through my qualifications. >> Thank you. >> Okay. >> Good evening. My name is Loita. I'm a professional uh engineer in the state of
New Jersey. >> 100% can't hear anything you're saying. >> My name is Lo De Almeida. I'm a professional engineer in the state of New Jersey. I've been a professional engineer since 2012. I have a bachelor's degree from NGIT
and I've been before several different boards. Uh, Wall Township, Manchester, Point Pleasant, uh, Bel Manisquan. Are there any other credentials you'd be interested in in hearing? >> Very. Do you accept these credentials?
>> Yeah, I do. Yes. >> Thank you. >> I'm going to turn it over to Lo so he can go through uh any of the technical engineering aspects of of this uh project as well as answer any of the technical questions. >> Thank you. I'll be using Mr. Roar's very
detailed technical review uh letter as a basis for my testimony. The property is located in the I industrial zone and is approximately 2.3 acres. It's bounded by Faraday Avenue to the east, Sterling A to the north, Edison Avenue to the west,
and a commercial property and vacant u some vacant wooded land to the south. With regards to bulk zoning criteria, the site is mostly compliant. Uh minimum lot size, lot frontage, lot width, lot depth, side, rear, and accessory yard
setbacks, building height, building coverage, and imper impervious coverage are all compliant. There is a dimminimous existing front yard setback of 98.7 feet where 100 ft is required. Proposed improvements include grading,
installing of a gravel parking surface, stormwater improvements, perimeter fencing, sight lighting, gate access along Sterling and Edison avenues, installation of parking additional parking spots, including an ADA
compliant parking spot. The intent is to grade two separate fenced gravel areas of approximately 16,700 square ft each leaves for the storage of vehicles, equipment, containers, and/or trailers.
No bulk materials, no stacked containers, no hazardous materials, and no subleasases. Prior to the submission of the application, the owner obtained a permit to clear the property. He also installed the gravel parking surface and the
fence. He was unaware that approvals uh to install the fence and gravel surface were required. These are the reasons for the noted discre discrepancies on Mr. Roier's uh letter as they relate to the survey information. It is understood that the board if the
board would were to uh decide favorably on this application that the owner will remediate the improvements uh to the satisfaction of the engineer in the board. The applicant agrees to obtain all required outside agency approvals.
No encroachments to adjacent properties are proposed. The applicant shall remove any improvements including fencing that may have been stalled offsite. The applicant will obtain a road opening permit for work along Edison avenues and
Sterling avenues where required. There are several design waiverss that we are requesting. Um the previous resolutions were were mentioned by my colleague. Um these are similar waiverss to that were granted with those applications. No concrete aprons are proposed along
either Sterling or Edison avenues since both streets um and the proposed parking areas are gravel and unpaved. We believe a concrete apron would be unnecessary on-site curbing applicant seek seeks a waiver for this. With regards to paving,
the gravel areas are for employees only and and the proposed lease storage areas are not open to the public. If a a design waiver is required, we will seek this, but we don't believe it is. Gra gravel areas shall be limited to the
interior fenced areas and driveway access. All other areas shall be grass or plantings. We've inspected the gravel parking area that has previously been been installed and we believe it to be acqu adequate.
Uh the applicant would uh conduct a proof roll if the board uh uh deemed it necessary uh for observation uh by the township engineer or or inspector. It is the responsibility of the applicant and owner to manage the
property and force the maintenance the site including proper access throughout the site. With regards to site parking, sufficient parking has been provided based upon the criteria. Improvements include a compliant ADA parking spot and
four additional spots. No EV parking spots are proposed with the application. A waiver is requested for this off-site curbing and sidewalk. None is proposed. A waiver is requested due to the unpaved condition of the
adjacent Sterling and Edison avenues. With regards to solid waste storage, my colleague here mentioned um containers within the site. There is an existing refuge container along Sterling Avenue. Um it's on the exterior side of the
proposed fence. Uh it's currently used for uh by the the employees of the plumbing um business. It would also be available for tenant usage. Proposed storm water management improvements include a smallcale bio retention basin and grading. The
engineer has provided several comments related to the preparation of the report. The applicant will revise the storm order report as required to the satisfaction of the engineer as a condition of approval. No street improvements are proposed as part of this application. The proposed
use will not result in heavy vehicular traffic in excess of what currently exists. The applicant anticipates sporadic or occasional uh access to the site by these tenants. Access to each lease space by the tenants will be via lock gate which was previously
mentioned. There is no loading or unloading permitted offsite which will reduce any negative impacts to surrounding traffic flows. Tenants shall maintain a clear drive aisle for the site for emergency personnel access at all times. This is noted on our site
plan by a hatched area. These requirements will be listed on a on signage and posted on the on each gate. Uh there's a detail of that of those those uh requirements and the sign on our site plan.
Mr. Roire's letter has several specific comments regarding various site plan drawings. I'll go through those now. Site plan footing details shall be amended to indicate 4500 PSI concrete. Site plan shall be amended to indicate
site triangle easements. Site plan shall be amended to indicate uh parking space dimensions and other dimensions necessary. Site plan shall be amended to indicate material and cross-section of the parking lot. Grading plan storm water shall be
directed towards the proposed rain garden plan uh shall be amended accordingly. Uh the plan and storm water report shall be amended to demonstrate separation from other uh other improvements. plan shall be amended to indicate rain
garden plantings lighting plan. The plan has been revised to include three light poles and a building mounted flood light. Um Mr. Roar's letter indicates uh the change of of of a type of flood light. However, to
meet the minimum lighting requirements, we had to uh include three pole mounted lights. Plan shall be amended to show fixture characteristics and a note and note the dust to dawn operation. Landscaping plan
shall be amended to indicate sight triangle easements and all obstructions to be removed. Plan shall be amended to indicate the rain garden, Sterling Avenue and Edison Avenue plantings and survey shall be updated accord accurately to show the
existing tree line. All tree removal shall be noted on the plan and comply with ordinance. Further, we take no exception to the remaining conditions of approval that uh are listed in section E of the letter. >> Ro comments.
So, uh, in my opinion, there are a lot of, uh, revisions still needed for the plan to really demonstrate how the site will operate. Um, and and based off of the numerous requested waivers, I I would say we
should discuss each one. I don't recommend that all the waivers be granted. And and for example, even the EV parking is not something this board could grant. That's a state requirement. Um, >> so as far as amend amended, go ahead.
>> Oh, if you don't mind, if if the board uh if if the EV parking is required, I'm sure the the applicant would uh comply with that requirement. >> Okay. Um, so if we could just go through each of the design waiverss you requested, we'll
I'd like to put a little dialogue on each one. Can you just go through and relist uh the design waivers, please? Yes. On-site curbing. So what is the reason for that request?
Um, we don't believe that the the the curb would be necessary within the the everything's um delineated by the the proposed fence. >> While the area may be delineated, how does the drainage work within the
fenced areas? the prop the the property is graded somewhat to the south um and it will be regraded to move all the storm water to the rain garden which runs along the entire southerntherly portion of the
proposed improvement. >> Um and what about vehicles that may leak on the the gravel areas? >> I think we'd have the same issue if it was paved. those oils or gas would still end up
in uh in some type of storm water retention uh structure. >> Well, if it's gravel, I would say it would likely just go into the ground where if it was impervious like pavement, you'd have a chance to collect it in a designated area like an oil
separator. Um, I think that would be a better design from an environmental standpoint to capture any any kind of environmental concern that could fall in that area. >> I understand. I I agree uh with that to to a certain extent. However, we're
trying to avoid adding a lot of imperous surface to the uh the area. Well, once the gravel is compacted and driven on, I would say it's basically considered impervious at that point. From a from an NJD storm water
perspective, it is considered impervious uh drivable surface. While it may but it still may let through some amount of water, it's in the D's eyes, it still is considered impervious.
But then wouldn't the these oils not leech into the ground? Then if we consider it impervious then it should be impervious and those those items would end up in the rain garden. >> I would say I uh leak leaking fluids
could still make it through portions of the gravel area. However, the DP still calls it regulated motor vehicle surface. So again, I would recommend at least if you're going to park contractor vehicles
or uh construction equipment, I would consider having the area properly either paved HMA or concrete would be my recommendation to properly capture any runoff and treat it.
So that was the first uh waiver request. if we want to keep moving >> aprons along the access drives. >> So, if you're pulling again, if you're pulling in large vehicles, it helps with safety pulling in and out.
So, the cars tires wouldn't spin on on rocks or kick up any rocks. I think the concrete apron would be appropriate. >> Understood. I I thought it would not be necessary given the gravel uh gravel driveway, gravel parking lot and gravel
stone um roadway. >> Okay. So, and previous approvals um from resolutions in 1983 and 2011 granted waiverss for all these items,
>> right? But this is now you're you're seeking a more intense use of the property. You're proposing to have vehicles come down these side streets. And uh one of the other recommendations was that the road were made more safe and improved to the
township standards. Can you describe the current condition of the gravel roadways, Sterling and Edison? >> That they're pretty poor. uh my my colleague um will speak about the
surrounding use and and those those businesses uh to a further extent. >> Okay. So you want to continue down on the requested waiverss. We'll just go through those offsite curbing and sidewalk.
>> So typically that that is an ordinance requirement. All frontages require curbon sidewalk or you would seek a waiver from constructing them if the board feels it's appropriate and make a payment in lie of curbon sidewalk. >> So that would be up to the board's discretion.
>> Understood. >> Are there any sidewalks or curb within this within the area of the project? >> No. >> Okay. So how would you like to handle that? Would you request payment in lie?
I would uh defer to uh the client if you don't mind. >> Okay. >> You can get back to us with that request. I >> think that that goes through all the all the waiverss. Okay. And just to touch on again the the
roadway itself, while it's not part of the property, it's directly adjacent to the property which you're you're proposing traffic to enter and exit your site. And it it would be uh in my opinion appropriate to
to improve the roadway to uh to the township code, township standards along the property frontage for Sterling and Edison. I would like to confer with my client to see if you'd be open to that. >> All right. And then from an engineering standpoint,
just I know you mentioned there's a you indicate a drive aisle to maintain clear access in the fenced in areas. I think that's a good idea. Um, you said it would really just be delineated or described on a sign. Is
there any way you would propose to delineate that just to make sure it's kept clear and safe? So, it's not the township's responsibility to make to come in and check that it's clear. Uh, any any markings that could be placed, pavement
or uh striping or something placed in the stone perhaps? >> I think we'd be open to that. uh we we would like the flexibility to be able to reconfigure the the the storage and the and the
parking as needed. So >> it's diff it's just difficult for the board to make a a decision and me as the board engineer to to be okay from a circulation standpoint and of course fire safety the fire department would
like to comment on that as well I'm sure. Um, have you reached out to the the fire official? >> No, we have we have not. >> However, we could perhaps stipulate a 20 foot drive aisle um one way or the other
from the entrance uh as needed. >> Okay. And then I would suggest um for the areas you would propose parking vehicles, some more dimensions shown on the plan. Um, and if it's 9 by8 for for passenger vehicles or larger spaces,
just so the board could see how many we're talking. Uh, do you have that number by any chance? How many passenger vehicles you could fit if you used both areas? >> I I don't have that on me. I could approximate that if uh I can go back to
the get back to you in the next after my colleague testifies perhaps. >> Okay, that's all I have at this time. I I with the uh sound here it was hard to hear some of the things that was said.
Um the water runoff. What did you propose and what did he did the applicant accept? Uh, I suggested an imperous surface such as HMA, hot mix asphalt pavement or
concrete that would allow any any fluids or drippings from the vehicles parked to not drain into the ground and then it be captured in some type of oil separator and um the applicant said he would review that
with the client. >> Okay. So that that's almost like curbing that separates uh all the uh the water and oil. >> It would be a barrier so none of those u >> fluids would go directly into the ground.
>> Um I think that that that that would be a good idea. Um, any place where there's gravel, I think the uh heavy equipment is just going going to rip it up and and move it away and you're going to run into a problem there. And the uh storage
containers, what is going to be stored in these containers? That I I don't know. I would defer to the to my client. Um >> I would defer defer to my client to answer that that uh question.
>> Okay. >> Also, uh do you do you anticipate truck traffic coming to the containers to load and unload and how many often would that occur?
>> I'd like to defer to my client to answer that question. Thanks. >> Thank you. Um the engineer recommends putting in an apron. I think that would make a lot of sense to me. Um if you request a waiver for sidewalking, I
mean, you know, if you' put the sidewalk in, then you would have that apron. Um, I do think that it makes sense, especially because you don't know what type of vehicles are going to be entering and exiting um, this area. And if you I mean, we haven't heard from you
um, definitively what type of impervious you will be putting down there, but if it's gravel, then it would definitely prevent some of that gravel from getting into the street. Uh the other point is the engineer said that it's required to
have an EV parking spot. Um I think that needs to be put onto the plan the location of it. Um the board generally or the fire official generally says has to be furthest away from the building as possible. So I think for many reasons we
need to see a better plan here so we can act upon it. Are the two streets Edison and Sterling, are they are they paved or are they gravel streets? I don't recall. >> Those streets are unpaved. >> I'm sorry.
>> Those streets are unpaved. >> Unpaved. >> There's no curb. There's no sidewalk. >> They're just dirt and and gravel. >> And Mr. Chairman, >> yes. >> Mr. Dalmita,
do you have an idea of how wide Sterling and Edison are currently. >> I I believe they're in the range of of 25 to to 30 feet. I think there's a comment in the engineers letter that uh
identifies that >> because Mr. Sheml's survey shows some areas where quite frankly it's not very wide. Um, and there is an ordinance requirement says if you're going to develop the property, you have to bring it up to some standard. So, if this were
a substandard rightway, we'd ask them for right ofway dedication. This particular instance, they're requesting waiverss of curb and sidewalk. However, that doesn't mean the town's not entitled to get the road widened or in lie of that some tradeoff. And in
this instance, There should probably be some testimony about what the intensity of the the increase in intensity of the roads are going to be and should they warrant some improvements in order to do so
because while it I don't think the board or the ordinance says that it's this applicant and this applicant only responsibility to bring this up to township code. There is a requirement that when you utilize your property to bring the roads up to a certain
standard. So respectfully, Mr. Hughes started in Faraday was the main drag, he did his job over there and put a side street in and at some point Edison probably got developed. Um, I don't know the history of how
Sterling came to be, but at this point in time, it would appear that for the users of the applicant's property, they'd probably come in Faraday, go down Sterling because that's where one of the entrances is to get to Edison. So our
question is is should Sterling at a minimum and perhaps Edison be brought up to some minimum standard so you can bring in the uses that they're proposing, heavy equipment, tractor trailers, storage units, those
sorts of things. Not saying they need to pave the road, but if it's if it's inconsistent because it just got built as it went along, like much of the industrial park did over the last 30 years, then perhaps there's a a conversation to be had, whether it's with this board or with the town
engineer to say, what minimum standard should Sterling be brought up to in order to utilize for the proposed purposes intended the rear section of the property? So that could possibly be the township has to do the improvement to the to the
road. >> Correct. >> They're not responsible as the applicant before us tonight, whether a use variance or a site plan to fix everything. >> Okay? If this site were vacant and they didn't have and and the road wasn't built and they wanted to utilize
Sterling as a road, then they'd have to bring it up to some standards and that's in the design standards for the town. Particular case, they are required to provide road widening if necessary. So certainly if Sterling Avenue isn't up to the minimum township
design standards for this type of road, we haven't heard any testimony regarding that. It shouldn't be the responsibility of the taxpayers of Jackson Township to make sure that this road gets maintained. They're going to increase the intensity of the use of the property. They should provide the access
to it. So I don't have the answers. I just have the questions. >> Right. And and I think I'm sorry. >> So it's just basically at the access points where their responsibility would be. >> Okay. So they they may have to put
concrete aprons down or whatever too. >> Well, and also on the frontage depending on the kind of use. I think this goes to the difficulty. There was some testimony from the engineer. They're not anticipating a higher intensity of use. But the problem is you don't really know
what use it is. So if you have I think the question had come if you have uh containers that are being you know filled if you've got you know somebody who's storing materials in a trailer depending on that you know these
different uses that have been discussed that could influence the intensity of the use. So, the board is is having to assume that of the uses you've anticipated that it's going to be the most intense of those uses.
So, in other words, we would we would basically have to know just about how how many trailers you or containers you'll have, what the sizes, whether they'll be opened or closed all around, and uh uh would they be in set
places and and etc. >> Mr. Chair, over here. So, the um my thought is about safety. If if the applicant's going to lease out the rear portion of the lot and there's then going to be businesses and employees
driving all the way down these roads, you want to make sure it's wide enough, it's stable, and it's a it's a public rightway. So, that was my thought. Oh, in in this case, if the if the township comes in or the town engineer
comes in, um he would have to approve some have some kind of plan uh to present to to let us know what's happening. >> Well, the township code specifies what is required, >> right? So, no, the I mean I I to Mr.
Peter's point, you know what the standards would have to be would be established, but also as he stated, it would not be up to the township to improve the road at this juncture if there's going to be an intensity of use to make sure that the access is
sufficient and safe. And that that is on the applicant that's proposing the in uh increased use Okay. Could we hear your next witness, please? If the board pleases, can I just have a
fivem minute break? >> Is that people wants a fivem minute break? Okay, sure. >> Thank you very much. Okay, we will have a fivem minute break. Um, yes, we have some input. I I uh had some conversation with Mr. Lefredo. I believe
he has a request to make of the board. Um what we did talk about we discussed about uh bifurcating this uh that would at least allow us to develop more a site plan for you to to actually vote upon. Uh but we would deal with everything
else um and go from there and come back on another day with an actual site plan set up. We will um and it will be discussed we will in in our plan we will limit the area to only three or no more
than three tenants. Um that way it'll help out in that regard. But that was my request and that was my discussion with Mr. Briani. >> That's that sounds good. That's what that's what I thought you would that's what I thought you were going to do when
when we first got started. um just think that that you're putting it on the board to make a lot of decisions that you should be you should be making. >> I would say you're a chess player because you were at least three moves ahead of me. >> Okay. Wow. >> So in the request for the bar
bifurcation what you're requesting I believe today is we'll take the uh some planning test that is simply the use variance and that use variance as I understand it because of a lack of specificity on the site plan side or what is anticipated is simply you are
asking the board to grant a used variance allowing for a section of the property to be used for rental to third parties. Correct. >> How do we know the intensity of that?
>> We we So there would be I mean and and I think it would be clear if the board were inclined to grant uh the use variance that there is no determination being made on intensity. There's no ability to use that pending uh specific
site plan. >> Correct. I I would >> because and the improvements there that are there currently were installed illegally. um and cannot that area cannot be used on that basis until approved by site plan. >> Yeah, that would be fine.
>> And if we're doing a use variance, it limited to three tenants. >> Yes. >> No. >> And I'm sorry we got we got to the swearing in, but we don't know who is sworn in. >> Yes. Uh good evening. My name is Barbara
Alen. My last name is E H Len. I'm a licensed professional planner in the state of New Jersey and an AICP. I have been uh accepted as a planner throughout the state of New Jersey uh including before Jackson before. >> Can you hold a mic? >> Yes. If you'd like to be accepted by
Jackson again, we need to be able to hear you. >> Okay. Should I start over? Uh so I am a licensed professional planner and AICP. I've been accepted throughout the state of New Jersey as a professional planner and currently serve as the board planner for the township of
Livingston and the Burrow of Freehold. Do we accept the credential? I accept you. Credentials are exceptions. >> Thank you. Uh if you'd like, give me a second. I would just like to hand out >> Sure. >> Yes. Uh so I'm handing out a packet of uh an aerial and several property
photos. Uh the aerial and was prepared by myself and the photos as well. I know the photos uh contain an older date, but I have uh visited the site since then, and the photos are still an accurate representation uh of the >> I'm sorry, is this uh exhibit was this
previously um >> No, it was not. >> Um actually, I would have liked you to have put it in previously. That's what I would have liked. Um so it would be I would I propose it as a packet um prepared by Beacon
Planning. The first photo uh the first page being an aerial and sub subsequent uh photos being property photos. >> Yeah. I if the board wants to to consider I don't want to limit your uh testimony specifically by through
bifurcation but just know for this board that you know we don't take exhibits on the fly. Normally the exhibits have to be submitted prior to the testimony so that they can be given um for the board to consider and we can put them up on
the uh screen and all those things. So >> I completely understand. Um so the application this evening is for uh the subject property at 280 Faraday Avenue. On the cover of the aerial, the property is outlined in yellow.
Uh the subject property is situated within the I industrial district which permits contractor office showroom garage warehouse shop uh light manufacturing medical and dental laboratory warehousing
wholesaling and distribution uh contractors or craftsman shop or equipment storage area. uh fabrication of products, um wholesale building materials supply yards, uh yards of contractors and the construction and
building trades. Um so industrial uses and what is noted about these uses is that outdoor storage is specifically permitted. So the the use variance part of this is actually the fact that it's not the
contractor using the outdoor storage or the owner of the property here. He is seeking to let third parties onto the site. So although this is a use variance, the use is anticipated within this zone and so are the other impacts
associated with it such as truck traffic, um equipment storage, material storage, things of that nature. So as I go through my testimony, I just wanted to outline that the the actual utilization
of the property is anticipated within this district. It is just who is using it that triggers the use variance. Um so the subject property is within the industrial area and is surrounded by
other uh commercial and industrial uses. Um across Sterling Avenue is wooded area, but followed by that is um what's described as a pavement maintenance. So like pavement sweeping, things of that nature. And then if you look to the uh
top left of the property, uh that's actually a waste hauling. Uh so while I was visiting the the property, there are actually multiple trucks coming down Sterling Avenue and using that road to access uh the other industrial uses. Um
the property is unique in the fact that it maintains three roadway frontages. uh Faraday, Sterling, and Edison. And this actually works to the advantage of the proposed use. Um, in this instance, uh,
visitors to the plumbing contractor, uh, access the site along Faraday Avenue, and those that are seeking, as we are seeking, for those storage areas in the back, will bypass that Faraday uh, entrance and go down along Sterling and
along Edison. So it effectively separates the traffic. Passenger vehicles will go onto the paved parking lot along the front of the building and will not have to intermingle with any storage of vehicles or any trucks going to the rear area. Um and nor will they
have to will any trucks have to go through the the Faraday uh parking lot for regular vehicles in order to access those storage areas. So in this instance, usually uh corner lots that
have three frontages, it's usually considered a pretty large impediment. Uh but in this instance, it actually works uh favorably towards this type of use because it allows separate entrances into different storage areas without one
having to cross into the other. Um before I go deeper into what would be my testimony for the use variance, I do like to go through the community's uh master plan and uh ordinances. I note that the 2009 MA land
use element of the Jackson master plan uh stated goals and objectives include to direct growth into areas suited for land development and away from areas appropriate for resource protection. So this area is specifically envisioned for this type of use. And not only that is
that it presents an opportunity to pull these types of landscaper trailers or things like that out of residential areas or out of uh you know people bringing equipment home because they
don't have a place to put it. or in the instance of the waist hauler um across the way, uh pedest uh regular vehicles being parked along roadways that need that width. And so it pulls a nuisance
off of the adjoining roadways and into a controlled area. um uh to provide economic development opportunities in areas that are well suited for Chester development that would increase the local employment opportunities and improve the ratable base of the township. Again, this
presents an opportunity not only to support this existing business that has half a property that is vacant, but it allows other businesses that need that space to have it possibly in close proximity to where their their
operations are. For example, the waist hauler if they need parking now those employees are getting the parking is getting pulled off the local the small I shouldn't say small but the road the the dirt roadways onto a site and so you're
supporting their operations and you're supporting the plumbers's uh site as well. So it can be a um a co- beneficiary um to provide for commercial development to serve both local and regional needs
commiserate with the demands of the market and based on both reliable and innovative market strategies. Again this is this is responding to demands that are in the community that is requesting space to put this type of equipment uh within the land use element. states
industrial development in the township is relatively low as well as the associated employment opportunities. Efforts are needed to establish a diversity of districts suitable for employment generating development and to promote the development of these districts to achieve a broader economic
base. Again, allowing the site to be used as a storage area for a third party. Um, it supports other businesses within the community and it expands the the utilization of this property. So, this property is envisioned for this
type of use, envisioned for storage. It's just envisioned for storage that's associated with the property owner and not a third party. Um, we can also look to the municipal land use law for special reasons. I would
appine G to provide sufficient space in appropriate locations for a variety of agricultural, residential, recreational, commercial, and industrial uses. So the the town the community has already determined that this is an industrial zone and that outdoor storage of
equipment, materials, vehicles is appropriate uh for this area. Um and so that is what is being proposed for this site and M to encourage coordination of the various public and private procedures and activities shaping land development with a view of lessening the
cost of such development into the more efficient use of land. So this property exists and is developed. However, the person, the plumber, the applicant doesn't need the full size of this property for their operations. They they have the place to put their
trucks. They have the place to store their equipment and materials, and they have their showroom. And so, it effectively leaves half a property in an industrial area vacant. And so, as it's available, it it it presents a unique
opportunity to bring it back into productivity. um and service the community as well as the um in a way that supports other businesses and pulls vehicles that we don't want stored on the road or stored in residential areas
um into a place that can accommodate them. When we look for use variance, uh it's the medi medici criteria. I'm sure that you've you're all very familiar, but in this instance, I would appine that the application um uh that the site is particularly
suitable for the proposed use. Um to reaffirm uh as I've testified uh that it is in an industrial district that anticipates outdoor storage of equipment and materials, uh the requested use variance is to permit outdoor storage uh
just not associated with the property owner at this time. Uh the property is in an area typified by truck traffic. Uh so any additional traffic that is generated by the storage is not actually um I know there were concerns that's an intensification of it
but it's actually a use that's anticipated. So any traffic that is generated by this is anticipated within this district. uh it would be no different than if um he was a more of a general contractor and he had a storage
of his equipment but his equipment needs to utilize the full site. Um so it's the same type of traffic it's just who is generating the traffic I should say. Um so the uh the site itself as I've stated
uh existing development is already skewed towards one side. So it's not as this although the applicant needs to remove buildings or remove anything this is just open space uh that can be utilized to support other businesses and
as I said as contains three frontages um all the different spaces can be accessed separately and so there'll be a maximum of three tenants and each one will have its own access into a storage area
with respect to substantial detriment. I do not see any um with respect to use. Uh I know that site plan will come separately as this as we've requested this be a bifocated application and the applicant would have to address uh the engineer and comments at that time. But
with respect to noise, traffic and trash, uh again these are all anticipated within this district. Uh this is not a an exacerbation or something above that uh which the Jo the zone was created to accommodate.
Concerns regarding storm order would also uh be addressed during site plan application. Um we must also address the Medici reconciliation uh which is the the the reasoning behind the omission.
Um, in this instance, the use was anticipated uh as uh if not even more as a more intense use such as a wholesale building material supply yard which would be able to include bulk storage of materials and
equipment such as building construction supplies and equipment, vehicles, supplies of heavy equipment, contractors, etc. is anticipated. It's just the ownership um or who is utilizing the site that wasn't anticipated.
Um with respect to the use, I note that the uh your planner had uh pointed out that the application is um that loading will be a question and whether loading is permitted in a front yard. >> I'm sorry. Could you >> I'm sorry. Uh your planning ad pointed
out loading within a front yard is not permitted. uh this would be I would um and I know it'll come to operations uh but at that time I do note that uh it has three frontages so loading would apply uh would occur in any front yard
as there isn't sufficient uh rear or sideyard area uh to accommodate a loading area and so in my opinion I believe the site is particularly suited for the proposed use um are there any questions that I
can Sir chair, >> thank you. Um, regarding the suitability, so I'm having a difficult time with that. Um, you mentioned a couple times that the applicant themselves would be able to use that full yard as they're proposing for other
tenants. So, while I partially agree with that, um the fact that you're requesting to have additional tenants brings additional strain to the surrounding roadways. Meaning, currently
the one technically the one uh original approval approval really is for the entrance to be on Faraday Avenue using the entire lot. So the egress and ingress is all from Faraday. Now you're
proposing and intensifying the usage on Edison and Sterling Avenue. So to me I'm seeing it as a intensified use particularly with the vehicular traffic on those two roads. So yes, technically
speaking, it was anticipated to have, let's say, x amount of traffic um coming and going from this property, but not through the side roads. >> Um can you clarify?
>> Sure. The >> No, I I understand. But you're you've stated that the access was always supposed to be through Faraday. >> Correct. >> Was there a particular I'm sorry. I looked at the prior resolution. I did
not see a stipulation. >> That's because the um the the main frontage needs to be on a improved road. >> Yes. >> The side roads are semi-improved
>> typically. Yes. A lot is typically required to have frontage along an approved roadway. And so, um, it it does it actually technically has frontage along three roadways. Um, I understand that, uh, Sterling and Edison are dirt
roadways, but they are still, I believe, municipal roadways, correct? >> Yes. >> Okay. So, they would be permitted to have access along those roadways. So there yes, but there's no specific um
access that was ever requested, you know, from those areas, meaning there was no driveways or entrances or exits to the property from those areas. The only >> the only place that was supposed to be accessed from was from on Faraday. Like
it was said, the rest of it wasn't permitted. It was done illegally. The lot was created. How >> I unfortunately I I don't understand because the the other roadways are public roadways.
>> Correct. But you do you have >> access to the property from those roadways? >> Yes. >> Was that approved? I don't understand why it wouldn't be. >> I'm not sure that those air those roadways necessarily existed at the time
of the approvals. >> I think the board members concern is that you had started out by saying that trucks are already using sterling. >> Yes. >> Which is a fair point, but you're and I'm not putting words in your mouth, but you're not in any way suggesting that
these roads are safe or compliant with any design standards. Just vehicles are using Sterling currently. Correct. >> They are using Sterling. Correct. And I believe though it is a municipal roadway, correct? >> Yes. My question to you then is are you aware
if this applicant has any approvals relating to what you refer to as the vacant portion of the site that would have or may have required him to do improvements to Sterling Avenue. So if he had an initial approval
and he intensified that by taking down the trees, putting the stone down, would he have a responsibility under the land use law to improve Sterling Avenue? I think you
well wouldn't the township having created those municipal roadways of anticip roads for people >> but those are municipal roads >> they're municipal rights of way when a developer comes in gets an approval on those roads they're developed to
township standards it's obvious that Sterling Avenue which doesn't appear to be the main access to any of the other from from your aerial doesn't appear to be the main access to any other property. >> I would disagree. It is the main access
uh or one of the access roads into the the waste hauling use >> and also extends up uh it appears maybe towards the sweepers. So it it would not be solely utilized by the applicant. As
I visited the site, there were multiple trucks coming up and down Sterling that were not associated with the applicant. >> So again, that's the reason the board was asking, are there any approvals associated with the development of the portion of the site that the applicant
wants to get a use variance for? >> I don't believe so. So, >> if I may, um, and right now we're and and I just want to make sure right now we're in in a posture where there's been a request for bifurcation for the use
variance only. And I'd like to have some focus on that because obviously it's up the board to grant or not grant the request for bifurcation. And the standard for that um as I think the board is aware is whether it's
appropriate to bifurcate because the question of the use itself can be considered fairly separate from the site plan or if they are so intertwined that they cannot be separated out. So if you
intend to proceed with the request for bifurcation, I think we need some some testimony or some argument on how the board can consider the use separately from the site plan issues because it it appears that the
questioning once again really focuses to a high degree on the site plan issues. I don't know if the board is going to be able to consider the use question separately from the site plan, but if that is
something that is being requested and then would I'd like to hear how the board could do that. I do know the site does existingly have site access off Sterling Avenue for the applicant's um outdoor storage
associated with his use. So there is established >> I'm sorry, could you speak into the mic again? >> Uh there is ex the applicant currently has access off of Sterling Avenue for the air storage area. Um, so there is existing access off that roadway, >> but that access would be closest to
Faraday Avenue. That access doesn't necessarily go all the way down to Edison, correct? >> Interior to the site, they would they do have access to the rear portion to that portion of the site. >> I'm sorry. Where do they have access to the rear portion of the site?
>> Uh, through the side. They do have a access along Sterling Avenue to their property, >> right? It's somewhere in between Faraday Avenue and Westinghouse Avenue. Correct. >> Yes.
>> So there there isn't an access between Westinghouse Avenue and Edison Avenue. Correct. >> Correct. >> Thank you. >> Well, it might be it kind of the there's like a little fence that goes off. My my
point is they don't have an approval for it. So you can't take credit for something that's not legal. It doesn't have an approval. So if they want to use that portion between Westinghouse and Edison, the town's entitled to ask them to improve it, you indicate the site's vacant. The
site's vacant because they took all the trees down and put stone down without an approval. So he could in theory subdivide the property, let someone else buy it, put up a principal use, and then put up all the parking they want. We're just turning this into a parking lot for
third party vendors. >> Okay. I think we need to sort of move this along. So I I the I >> I just request that the the matter be carried.
I think that's the easiest thing to do. >> I I think that it I think that Mr. Lefredo that that is a sensible request. I don't know given the nature of the questioning if it can be considered separately and and I think on the site plan issue clearly the board needs more
information. So um do you want it to be I don't know what the dates are that are available. First of all just on the record um we'll mark this document as uh A1 and um but
please going forward >> absolutely >> get those exhibits in earlier. Um do you have some idea how much time you uh need Mr. Alfredo >> I would ask for three three months. >> All right. Um I don't know Gina are you
able to give a date for 3 months hence don't know what the dates are >> okay so so all know the next time the applicant appears before the board they are coming just for the use variance >> I don't believe so I I I it appears to
me that instead of uh you know and and I'm sure that we'll hear from Mr. Lefredo between now and then, but I if if there's a desire to pursue the bifurcation, we'll hear that. If there's an intention to submit an additional
documents on the uh site plan, I'm sure we'll hear that as well. >> Things were heard from the the March earlier hearing. Things are being heard now. Um, I just need the time and I go through everything with the professionals and my client. Um, and then I would get back in touch with you.
>> Okay. I actually have two May dates. We have May 6th which we have one application on or >> right. >> Okay. What's the other date? >> Uh, we have May 20th which I I'm assuming nothing's on as I don't or
>> May 20th. >> May 20th. And I assume that you uh wave the statutory time requirements. >> I do wave off that timeline. >> All right. And and that's pretty far in advance, but uh we will not require
additional notice. >> No notice. >> But uh yes, so if you could get back to us in March on how you intend to proceed, that would be very helpful. I truly do thank the board and the engineers planners here uh for their
discussion at least and and entertaining us for this night. Thank you. >> Thank you. I know. Yes. Yes. Yes. I uh it wasn't given officially but
did we need a five minute break? >> Okay. We are back. No, that's yours. Okay. Are we uh ready to go? Okay, we are calling
next application 51 Progress Place LLC. >> Good evening, Mr. Chair, members of members of the board, Salvatore, Alfairi, Clearary, Gio Alfury, and Jacobs on behalf of the applicant. I we were this was initially presented, I believe, in December. Um the board
raised many questions. Uh s since that time we made a resubmission on January 23rd. Um to remind the board, this property currently has an approval um uh that it obtained in 2022 for the
storage of trucks, trailers, rolloff containers, shipping containers, construction equipment, back hose, excavators, skid steers, etc. Um, but we're here tonight to um seek approval for a mobile concrete batch plant. In
our resubmission that we made in January, we made we attempted to ra uh address many of the comments that the board raised at that last hearing. Um, Mr. Bordon, who's going to start our testimony, will describe those changes. Uh we still h we do have Scott Kennel,
our traffic expert, and we do have a representative or one of the owners of the proposed user, the the proposed tenant or owner of the of the batch plant if it's approved. So, we're going to ask that Mr. Mr. Bordon was sworn in and qualified in December.
I don't know what you want you want to do. >> I I think Mr. Bordon remains under oath and acknowledges as such. I believe I do. >> Thank you. Yeah, >> you you were going to say something. >> Yeah, just Mr. Just because you had gone
over what the existing approvals were from uh the 2022. Just looking at the statement of operations, I figured let's try and clear this up right now. There's a sentence in there that says the crush stone and sand required are approved
with 2022-41, including the truck use and storage. Certainly uh the truck use and storage of the trucks was approved in 2022. But are you trying to say that the sand and
uh stone were approved then? Because I did not see that in the 2022 approval. Uh my recollection is they were but uh that's that's my recollection that that that included in that approval was obviously not for a concrete batch plant but but
>> well it was an outdoor storage facility for vehicle and nonorganic material. >> Correct. And that would be the sand and stone basically landscape stone uh things like that. That's the non-organic. >> So sand and stone is in encompassed
within that idea of non-organic material. That's correct. >> It went along the premise of it being available for lease for contractors. >> Organic material being mulch. >> Non-organic material.
>> No. No. I I understand that. >> Yeah. Organic would be mulch. Yes. >> So, anything other than mulch you were saying is approved. >> I thought you said it was approved for non-organic. >> Correct. >> Yes, that's correct. >> Right. >> It's not approved for mulch.
>> Okay. And we're not proposing much. >> Okay. >> So, Mr. Bordon, um, >> pardon me. >> Just you all seem to >> be skipping just looking at resolution. Page 206 of the approving resolution.
Mr. Okonnell indicated there will be storage of sand and gravel, but no organic material such as mulch, top soil, or lumber may be stored at the site. Right. So, Mr. Bordon, I know you submitted certain exhibits in advance. Um, you did
provide uh extensive testimony at the last meeting, but let's focus on um first orient the board for those members who weren't here and they didn't see the exhibit, but then let's focus on the changes that were made, >> okay, >> since the last meeting. >> A brief orientation. The first there's
eight exhibits that I provided pre-marked A1 through A8. They're on the screen as well. A1 through A3 were presented at the December 17th meeting. A1 is an aerial of the site marked in yellow uh with these surrounding uses
shown or the buildings and and and zone. The property is located um on along Progress Place which is a small industrial road. It's in the LM zone. It's uh located on the west side of
Whitesville Road, which is on the right side of the exhibit A1, just north of 195, which is shown going left to right on the bottom. North being to the top of the page. Uh property is uh 4.9 acres.
Has significant areas of wetlands in the central and rear portion. Those wetlands were granted a LOI letter of interpretation by the D in 2023 as part of the original site plan. The surrounding properties are all zoned LM
light manufacturing uh the industrial zone and are primarily developed with warehousing AC across the street and to our west and to our east is the township park and ride facility.
There's no residential uses adjacent to the property nor within 200 feet and all the prop surrounding properties are zoned the same as the site which is the LM again. And then A2 is the variance plan that we presented at the
uh at the December 17th hearing. We had the approved plan on the left. The site uh has been approved as we had just discussed and has been constructed. And then on the right was for a comparison was what we were proposing
which was the mobile concrete batch plan in the center of the site. We have refined this with additional site plan details which will be a subsequent uh exhibit. Exhibit A3 is the uh is some details of the batch
plant uh specifications and and pictures of it and then we'll go into the uh to the new exhibits. Uh we'll start with uh some photographs of the site. Uh and these are provided because it was recom it was asked we were asked to do so by
the planners review dated January 30th. I think that was a very good suggestion. Uh so we provided those and we have three pictures which are A4, five and six. A4 is the uh is basically just an enlargement of the aerial. So here you
have progress place along the bottom. You see our driveway. You can see the fence that surrounds the property and the uh compacted gravel surface that forms the uh approved uh storage area. And then we have the next one, please, Anthony,
which is a view of from the street looking up the driveway. You can see the fence on across the driveway, the gate as well as the stormwater basin on the front right with some landscaping. And then the next one, please. Anthony A6.
And this is just a view from inside the fence looking across the uh the gravel. >> And and Mr. Bordon, those pictures accurately depict the current condition of the property. >> That's correct. And then we move into the work that we did subsequent to the December 17th
meeting, which is the uh plans that we submitted on January 23rd. If you go to A7, please Anthony. Uh we were asked and at the uh December 17th meeting, excuse me, to provide additional site plan details. Recall that exhibit A2 we
simply showed the batch plant. We didn't show any uh any other details. So we've we've tried to fill them out. And just to briefly uh describe, we also submitted a statement of operations dated to January 22nd as part of the uh
January 23rd submitt. I'm going to refer to that because the the statement um includes information that was testified to as far as the operation at the December 17th meeting. For example, uh there's anticipated to be four employees
at the site during normal hours of operation. Uh questions raised at the December 17th meeting is where will those employees park and what will they where will they be during the day? Uh so we have uh on the approved uh plan if you don't mind
Anthony you could enlarge this maybe get zoom in a little bit. Um the uh existing approved site had these parking spaces on the uh eastern part of the uh site facing progress
progresses here. This is the main access and then this parking spaces. So, the four employees would park in these existing parking spaces, and we've showed the location of a portable office trailer that will be used uh by the uh
on-site uh employees. We also discussed at the uh December hearing about the fact that there will be uh not more than five truck drivers that would arrive in their personal vehicles at the site and then drive. There will be a truck parked at the site
for each of them and they would use that truck during the day to deliver concrete to and from the site. And zoom in again, Anthony, just zoom in on this portion. And here here we have again existing spaces already approved and constructed of 14 car truck parking spaces. So
that's sufficient room for those of five employees to park their cars and then the five trucks will be staged. So um the five cars will stay during the day and the five trucks will then be used during operations uh for the uh the
day's work. >> No, I'm sorry, Mr. Warden. I had to add as a condition, I just want to make sure we're on the same page that there's going to be a maximum of five trucks parked on the site in a given time. Is that correct? >> Correct. That's correct. It was approved obviously for 14
uh but we're we're proposing five trucks. >> We want to proceed under the existing approval. That's >> I'm just I understand. >> So what what we did so again we what we showed is the um uh the office trailer obviously the batch plant we had shown
we showed the location of some storage for the sand and and materials. And then the next sheet, there was two sheets that we submitted on the 23rd 3rd of January. And the second sheet uh has information that was shown on the previous variance plan, but it adds it to the site plan, which is the turning
movements of the trucks to be able to come in, drive around the batch plan, and then exit the site. All exiting uh progress place as a deadend road. So all the Whitesville Road is to the top of this exhibit. Um, so all the trucks
would come in and go out to uh to Whitel. >> Mr. Bordon's going to reserve his variance testimony until after the other witnesses testify because he needs their foundational testimony. But, um, we're going to at least finish with the site
details and then he'll come back after that. Should I go over with these as site details? Marian report now. Yes. >> I'd like to address quickly again before the variance I'll return back for on the uh but I'll identify some of those now because
uh the planners review letter d January 30th offers some some insight into that that I want to go over. Plus it asks for testimony on some of these uh these items. Um the I'm just kind of working through the
skipping through the pages of the letter to to highlighted points that I made in the in the letter. On page four of the planners report, there's a citation of the ordinance noted of 210-83 talking about temporary structures uh stating that they can be erected for
a period of of not to exceed 180 days and asking for attention intentions with regard to the length of time the structures will be on site. These structures are intended to be permanent. I I suspect that we're conflating and I did the same thing. We're conflating
portability with permanency. In other words, both the office trailer and the concrete plant are uh are portable structures, but they will be placed on the site permanently. Uh the section 218-83 is actually the flood zone statute of
the town. Uh that section 83 states that a structure within a flood zone cannot be must cannot exist more than 180 days. So that that doesn't apply in this case. This this site is not within a flood plane. So I would state that that does
not apply. Uh moving on, there's other other provisions in the LM zone performance standards um that testimony is requested and those listed items 1 through 7. Um first is that the a loading or
unloading facilities are not allowed to be in the front yard. The front yard is 100 ft as measured from progress place again on the left of the map. Um we are not proposing any loading or run loading facilities as part of this uh facility.
Uh similarly on two no required off street uh uh oh actually number one says uh yeah we can't permit it other than a public street. We're not doing that of course. Uh second is the setback of 100 ft. We're not proposing any off streetet
loading area within 100 feet. Uh three is where we but a residential zone. Their standards apply with buffering. We are not within uh we are not adjacent to a residential zone as I testified on exhibit A1. Item four is that each use permitted
must be serviced by a public sewage disposal system. Um the we are proposing that the as stated in the statement of operations that the temporary or the the office trailer the office trailer will come with a portable
facility u and it's proposed to pump that out twice a week. We have discussed in the December 17th meeting whether possibility of doing a septic system. Uh we can certainly do a septic disposal system if the board is
strongly inclined in our opinion given the limited use of the site by only not more than four employees uh that pumping out the uh the the restroom uh tank uh tw twice per week would be more than satisfactory.
Uh item four or I'm sorry item five uh industrial activities or processes shall take place within a completely enclosed building. Uh incidental storage shall be shielded from any site or adjacent residential zone by fencing, landscaping
or appropriate measure. All of our industrial activity with the batch plant is shielded uh from the uh uh from the street uh by the the existing fencing that was evident in exhibits A6 and A7 or A5 and A6.
Um >> but there's not an enclosed building. >> Uh there is no enclosed building in this case. The the process of mixing the sand into the truck is done from a tank to a truck. So, >> which we'll get to with the operator.
>> Correct. The operator will testify to that. While not in an enclosed building, it's also not open to the air. I would I would argue. Um, item six talks about industrial parks. We are not an industrial park. As it states, it's not applicable.
Um, and number item seven is no use shall be conducted to discharge any treated or untreated industrial waste. Uh, there is no industrial waste uh generated by uh by this project. uh there is some variances or potential
uh variances identified on on page five. Uh and I'll return for the planning testimony, but just first to place them on the record. Uh there is a we are proposing a there's two principal uh structures on
the site that we're that we have. Both the batch plant and the trailer are principal uh structures. Both are required to have 100 foot front yard setback. The batch plant is more than 100 ft. It's 102 feet from progress. The
mobile office is 82 ft um proposed. So that is a uh a C variance. Uh attention is also made to the rear yard setback particularly since there's a section of the conservation overlay zone part of
the ordinance that requires setbacks to be measured from wetlands. Um in our case the wetlands is this line at the edge of this this hatching. That's the wet that's the approved wetlands line approved by D as part of the LOI in
2023 which is valid till 2028. And the the setback from that wetland point to that office building is 31 ft where the rear setback is is 51 ft. And I'll return for planning testimony on those two variances. The uh the setback rear
setback to the batch plant to the wetland is more than 50 feet. So um there were also questions raised about the uh building coverage and imperous coverage. Uh building coverage permitted to be 40%. The coverage of the batch
plant and mobile office trailer is less than 1%. Where 40% is permitted. The maximum impervious coverage is 75%. the site was approved and developed with this impervious coverage noted on the plan which exists is 24%.
Um and uh obviously and we're not proposing to change that with this with this amended approval. So it remains at 24%. And lastly, um, on page seven, there's item G&H, they're asking us to
address the impact of the application on a few items. One is the compatibility of the proposed use with the surrounding uses. Um, as I noted in that exhibit A1, Progress Place is an industrial. The entire all properties along the road on
both sides are zoned light manufacturing or light industrial. Um, in my opinion, it is compatible with the with the uh surrounding uses and the use being permitted is not vastly different than the uh use that's already approved for the site. Uh, mitigating factors for the
use variance. I believe that gets into the planning testimony that I'll provide later. Um, these standards I've never seen before. They're not they're not contained in any ordinance standard. Uh, they're I I don't know where they come from to be completely honest, but I'll
do my best to address those. Uh, the use will not injure or detract from the use of the neighboring property. Well, our our use has no impact on the on any neighboring property because our use is self-contained with the singular driveway to Progress Place. uh we don't
share any access. We don't we don't uh we don't either we we don't negatively impact uh any of the surrounding properties as far as uh their use uh character of the neighborhood. Again, it's an industrial uh neighborhood. The
street progress place uh the use of the property adjacent to the area is adequately safeguarded. Uh the existing approval has the fencing approved and as you saw from those exhibits A5 and A6, it's already
installed. Um property is suitable for the intended use. That really ties into the planning testimony again, but it is industrial use. The use will best serve the interest of the township. I believe that again will be the planning testimony as as we'll I'll
show that we are consistent with the intent purposes and goals of the master plan and the language use ordinance and meet the positive and negative criteria. Uh the use will not adversely affect public sewers uh and facilities such as water, sewer, piping and fire
protection. We there is no water and sewer present out in this area of of the town. No public water, sewer uh fire protection. We are required to get the approval from the fire uh bureau of fire prevention. So that would be a condition
of any approval granted to this board. The use will not vastly adversely affect advantage facilities the adjacent neighborhood. The drainage on this site is self-contained and the drainage facilities have been constructed per the uh per the um the 2023 approval. I think
this is a good chance to to bring up some that I I forgot in my site plan discussion. Uh one of the items that uh uh we we do need to add to the plan is that uh this site as an industrial facility to manufacture concrete has to
comply with the NJD stormwater general permit requirements. what what they called Egypties. Um, and the conditions of that general you have you you obtain a general permit from the state for any site that manufactures concrete so long as you meet a few
performance standards. And the two performance standards that apply to this site that we need to add are one is that the plant any industrial activity must be placed on an imperous surface. Currently, the site is a stone surface. We're proposing to remain. However, the
the batch plan itself being the proposed quote unquote industrial activity must be placed on a concrete or asphalt pad. So, we're going to place that on a concrete pad. And secondly, we need to provide a wash out facility for any trucks returning
uh from a project site that has leftover cement in their truck. a wash out facility is where they can dump that into a container, wash the truck. In other words, you're not just dumping that on the ground either at the project site or or at this site and the wash out
facilities away uh for that material to be captured and then that material is disposed of. The container is disposed of twice a week at a recycling facil a concrete recycling facility. Uh Jackson Township has a concrete approved
operational concrete recycling facility on the South Hill Chapel Road. So twice a week that it's basically a dumpster for for cement would be carried to the recycling facility and and disposed of and recycled.
Um I just want to while we're talking while I was mentioning drainage, I wanted to make sure the record reflected uh that. >> Yeah. Can I ask you I'm sorry just because what you're saying is very important to me and I didn't want to forget. Um so did you say the washing
out of the trucks? Yes. >> And so um you're going to take it to the special facility that Jackson already has. Right. >> Well the wash out plant it will be on the site will be part of the batch plant. >> The plant washing out the plant. >> The washing out the trucks.
>> Oh so it will So what's this where you're going twice a week to some place? Well, that's because it's the it's the it's the leftover materials from the trucks, right? You I >> Okay. >> It's just it's just the leftover
concrete from the uh from the uh from the from the trucks when they return back to the site. Truck comes to the site. >> Yep. >> And and they you fill it with cement and it goes to a job site, >> right? And that job site that job site ordered 10 yards of concrete. >> Yes.
>> And they they and the truck has 10 yards of concrete. >> Yes. >> And the the the contractor estimated wrong and they used nine yards. >> Okay. >> So now the truck is coming back to the plant with one yard of cement still in the truck. >> What do I do with it?
>> Right. It gets it gets it gets and I guess the operator will discuss about doing blocks but it has to get recycled and the wash out and has the truck has to be washed out before it can accept the next load to the next project. So the wash out facility is basically a
dumpster uh where uh that materials is poured into >> for material. So, and every every twice a week that is brought that >> the dumpster >> the dumpster is brought off site to the
recycling facility where it hardens and is recycled. >> Gotcha. Gotcha. So, it's the dumpster that goes twice a week that goes, >> not the truck itself. >> That's correct. That's correct. I got >> And the applicant will describe that process in more detail. and and quite
often when you're dealing with a large construction site, um there's a wash out facility on the site, >> you know, not not so much for a a house, you know, if I'm building a garage on my property and I need a foundation, I
wouldn't have a wash out, but larger if they're develing concrete to a larger facility, uh often they have their own wash out facilities on their sites as well. But it's it's a requirement of this Ngypties permit that we provide a wash out facility or a
means to uh recycle the returning unused concrete. >> And then Nypty's regulation is is enforced by the NJP. >> That's correct. >> So So can you spell that? >> Yes. It's NJ >> NJ
>> P DJ >> P >> P >> D >> D >> E >> S >> S >> S Okay. And to get nerdy about it, it's the New Jersey pollution discharge elimination system. >> Okay. And and it specifically goes into
concrete and cement and all that, right? >> It deals with many other things, but yes, as relates to issues, >> there's a list of industrial processes that each have their own criteria. >> Okay. And then my final question, so so that so you received some kind of letter or something. You just go in and look at
the criteria and make sure you apply like do you do you >> Yes. Yes. There's criteria that's on the uh the D's. >> Okay. Not necessarily you get a letter. You ask them, "Hey, I'm going to be doing this. Can you guys make sure?" >> Yes. It's actually an over-thec counter
permit. >> Okay. >> It's actually one you apply for online and get it over the counter >> and you have it already. >> Get it immediately. >> It's just not part of of what you show. >> And when you apply for that permit, you certify that you're going to do these things. >> Right. Right. Right. But you have that permit already. No, we would we would
obtain that as >> Oh, you need to apply for it. Okay. Thank you. >> Don't not going to get a permit for something that's not approved by this board yet. >> Yeah, I know. We go Yeah, we get back and forth with that. Yep. Okay. Thank you. >> And just just for the record, could you
discuss the height of the uh >> the processor? >> Yes. Oh, thank you, Dr. Hen. I actually skipped over that. The maximum uh we our opinion is that as I said that the both
the batch plan and the uh constru the portable office trailer are both principal buildings. The maximum permitted height of a principal building in the LM zone is 50 ft. Um and I believe the silo has a height of 35 ft
but it the maximum height is 50 feet and we will certainly comply with that. No variances requested for height. I just have one question statement. The mobile office building you said you need a variance uh >> rear setbacks.
>> What happens if you >> turn it? >> I thought the same thing when I when I read Mr. Peters's letter uh yesterday. So yeah, we could uh I I didn't do the math if it eliminates variances, but we we could turn the
trailer 90 degrees and uh >> minimize at least. Yeah, I I think I think he probably >> I think they I think in this case and this is really digging into the planning testimony, but this in my opinion is a C1 condition where the exceptional shape, you know, the the the depth is
dictated by the existing uh obviously the existing uh approved parking and but the the the lack of depth between the wetlands and the minimize you're minimizing it. We could definitely we can certainly minimize it.
I get my my other question. Um, you're only looking for one of these batch plants, mobile batch plants. We're not going to be adding more as the business grows. It's just the one, >> right? And there was an also a concern or question about will any other
businesses occur on site. This will be it. There won't be any other activity other than this >> single tenant use. >> I'm just wondering because Can't tell if there's more space that you know if you get to be a big business. >> It's a good question. Nope. Single batch
plant. That's all we're That's all we're part of the resolution. >> Yes, sir. >> Where you getting the water from? >> We're proposing a well on the site. >> Any idea where >> it would be? Right next to the batch plant.
>> All right. Um where are the trailers going that are bringing in the concrete? uh bringing in the raw materials. They would deliver it and leave the site. They would not be parked on the site. >> Where where do you put the uh raw concrete then? The powder. >> Well, the raw materials are back in this
this corner. >> You can't put concrete outside. >> No, no, we're not the raw material. >> Camera, if I might, Mr. Alfie, did you plan on bringing up the ultimate user to discuss? Yes. Okay. >> Thank you. I I think you said at one point that you
have two principal uses on the property. >> No structures. The structures if you consider the trailer for the office bathroom as a the principal structure that would be the second. The silo is the >> two principal structures one use.
And I mean I could also interpret that trailer as accessory to the main use which is the batch plan which is how I would do it. But >> I I I can't imagine why you wouldn't do that. >> I agree because that that that use is
not the principal use. The principal use is >> the batch plan of that is that is an accessory use. And if it's an accessory structure, it might even have a a lesser setback, but reorienting it is is the most practical
way of minimizing any impact. >> What is the buffer made of with that's separating the wetlands? >> Well, there's a fence and then what? >> Well, the the the fence is located at the wetland buffer line, >> right? What kind of >> the buffer itself is forested
>> and the wetlands are forested. >> So it's just a fence. So if let's say we have a spill and there's runoff, there's nothing to stop it. >> Well, all spillage would be would be maintained on the site because all the drainage. There's a storm water there's an existing storm water basin that
appeared in that one photograph that exhibit A6. I believe there's a storm water basin here that collects the initial runoff from the entire site. So it would it would stay on site. >> Yeah, I understand that. But let's say you roll over your loader right by the
edge of your um gravel and sand pile and the fluids come out. Is there anything to keep it from going into the wetlands? >> Yes, it would go into the site through into the drainage system on site. >> Everything's going to be pitched in like a bowl >> into the center of the site. Yes.
>> All right. >> That's the way it's currently constructed. >> All right. in the in the uh the front of it says uh car/14 truck parking spaces. You're still keeping that there. >> We don't need not that's just how it was
originally. >> That was that was what was proposed. >> We're not we have the five trucks. >> Five trucks, five cars. I'm just curious. It's because it's still there. >> Yeah, I understand. Well, >> it's just because it's that's the way it was approved, but we could change that to 10. >> Yeah, I would like that. >> Five and five. Mhm.
>> All right. Thanks. Other questions from the board? Yeah. Uh >> Mr. Bordon, can you just clarify the term mobile batch plant? Um the silo is not moving. Is that correct? >> Correct. It's it's mobile to the extent it's brought to the site as a package.
Once it's placed, it's not moved. >> Okay. And then the board had concerns about runoff previously and I feel they've been addressed with the uh clarification you gave about the D requirement for the paved area and the wash out. >> Thank you.
So the you mentioned before um the mobile office either you can have it pumped or septic I think would be appropriate being that it's a permanent structure um with workers that are there always I think it would be appropriate to put in a septic system.
>> Oh we'll be guided by your decisions fine. >> Thank you. Any comments? >> No comments yet. >> Okay. >> Uh, I just remembered one question. Sorry. >> We're going to open the the meeting. >> Yeah, just one question. Sorry. Sorry. I
I just remembered. Um, you mentioned that you did get a letter of interpretation from D. This was a few What was the date of that letter? >> 23. >> 23. >> 2023. Okay. Okay. >> Five years. >> Okay. And at that time, does it matter
what it was going to be used for? >> The LOI is for the property regardless of >> Right. It's the other one that we just spoke about. You gave me all the >> is related to the use. >> To the use. Okay. >> That's actually a permit. >> Right. Right. Right. Okay. >> Doesn't give you the right to do
anything. >> Right. >> It just tells you where the wet lanes are and what the buffer is. >> Understood. >> That's our job to stay away from them. >> Yep. Okay. Thank you. And this goes back to the EP if it's approved. >> No >> review. They don't further review that
>> just to get the NIPS permit, but LOI is locked in regard. We're not touching anything that's deviates from where the LOI lines are. >> Correct. >> Further questions? Open the meeting to the public. Anybody wishes who wishes to comment on the
application, please go forward. Seeing nobody come forward. Public session is closed. >> We're now going to call the operator up. Thanks, Ian. >> Use the mic. You're going to get sworn in.
>> Good afternoon. Good evening. >> Do you swear affirm that the testimony you'll give this board will be the truth and nothing but the truth? I swear I did. >> And could you please state your name loudly and clearly into the microphone? >> Joseph Gafolo. >> Thank you.
>> And Mr. Garafalo, how are you affiliated with the this application? >> I'm the owner of Richmond Readymix. >> Right. And you're either going to be a tenant andor the property owner at some point. >> Correct. >> So, and can you just tell the board a little bit about Richmond Readymix?
>> So, we're a concrete producer in uh New York, New Jersey. closer to you. >> I'm sorry. Right here. >> New York, New Jersey. Um, we've been in business for about 10 years now. We run a large operation out of uh Staten Island and Brooklyn also.
And we're now looking, we do a lot of work in Newark Airport. We do a lot of work with the Turnpike Authority and also the Garden State Parkway. So this would take a lot of truck traffic off the road for us, relieve some of the uh the tolls that we endor
right now and uh be beneficial to our company. Can you can you describe for well you heard the testimony about the number of trucks and the number of employees and the hours of operation that's all how you would live with those limitations. Correct. Abs. So I think the reason we want you up here is to
explain the process. What happens how when a truck how does material get to the site and then how did the trucks get to the site and what happens on site and where do they go from there? >> So the trucks come we have material delivered to the site on a daily basis. We get some sand delivered, stone
delivered and also powder delivered. >> And where is that stored? >> The powder is stored in the silos enclosed with affected with a dust collector. So when the powder trailers are blowing off, there's no dust going into the air, uh sand and stone are
delivered and dumped into the piles that are shown on the uh >> they're in bins. >> They're in bins, right? We create bin blocks and then store the material in those bin blocks and our loader loads them into the plant and the plant weighs up all the materials,
cement, sand, stone and then it is some water is added at the facility through the batch plant. It's weighed first or metered and then the truck is sent out and in transit to the job, the truck actually mixes the concrete >> and that measuring is computer
measuring. >> It's all computerized measuring. Yes. Everything is uh on loads. It's called a load cell and then scales it goes back to a scale in the office and every mix that is created has different weights and that computer ensures that their
weights are correct and then the truck goes out. >> The um what type of trucks. You said you have material delivered every day to the site. How what type of trucks make those deliveries? >> Uh the powder would come twice a day in
a trailer at different times. Probably one in the morning and one mid-after afternoon and dump trucks of uh uh sand and stone would come probably four to five times a day. And then how frequently do your five trucks come and
go from the site on a normal day? >> I would say uh each truck would probably do approximately three loads. >> All right. And then um the mixing or the the computerenerated mixing or it's not mixing. What do you call it when it's
going into the truck? >> Batching. >> Batching. Does it does that generate any noise? that system. >> It generates a noise, but not it's not as loud as any type of banging that you would hear regular cars and stuff driving by. It's not a, you know, offensive volume.
>> And then you heard comments and questions about spillage. Um, what what type of spillage, if any, occurs during the normal operation? Like, does any of the product fall out of the silo and onto the ground or is it is all contained somehow into >> It's all contained into the truck with a
dust collector. anything that's, you know, when it's loading into the truck, there's a tremendous dust collector that that's uh sucking all the dust as the truck is loading. >> Now, you heard Ian describe this wash out facility. Can you just elaborate on that process?
>> So, yeah, sometimes the trucks will come back if there is not a place on a job site to wash out, but 95% of the jobs that we do, there is a place to wash out. The trucks need to not necessarily wash out. We call it washing in. So,
they rinse their fins down and the blades because they'll only have water inside the truck at that time. Once the truck is empty, they'll clean the blades with water and come back to the facility. If there is any concrete left over, we have what they call uh blocks. They're uh 2x two by six feet. They're
forms. We make these blocks and make bins out of them. And we do sell them to contractors and other people. So, there is no waste. First of all, those sales it's not, you don't have a retail operation, right? People >> No, no, no, no, no, no, no, no. We take them out on our own
>> and get rid of them. There's no, it's not like people are going to pull up and ask for block. They come by the order and the we make the delivery of them if there are any. >> And then you heard Mr. Bordon talk about this dumpster that would go to a recycling facility. What what type of
material goes into that if you're using the excess concrete for blocks? What else would go into that? >> You still have resin on the blades inside the truck. So, what the guys will do at the end of the at the end of the day, not every load because once you have water in the truck, the water's good. It's not uh it doesn't go bad. So,
when we have uh at the end of the day, the resin from the blades after they rinse them down, they will dump into a uh it kind of looks like a uh construction container that you would see when you're doing like a demolition with a special lining inside so the
water doesn't seep out. And at the end of every other day, depending how busy we are, we would get rid of that probably every other day. It collects all the the the m concrete residue inside the truck into there and it it
all settles to the bottom. >> Uh I think that covers the operations Mr. Chair if you have questions >> to the chair. Okay. First of all, thank you very much for that clarity. It's very helpful for the board. We don't always get that kind
of clarity on such applications from the actual operation standpoint. So I appreciate that. You mentioned the that you're creating these blocks. Um, first of all, what's the process for how do you make them and where are you planning
on storing them? And is there any other trucks that are necessary or needed for that kind of operation? >> No. So the usually the block would would only be made with leftovers if there was an order for them. Otherwise the left like what they were describing it would
go into a container and then leave. But if we did make the block, they would be taken to our facility in Staten Island where we have a 5 acre site and they would be stored there. >> So they're not being made on site here. >> It could happen on the site. They use a
form and they're poured into a form. It's contained and then they're picked up and taken away. But that's only if we're going to make them if we have an order. >> Right. So I just want to clarify because if we're doing that then looks to me like there's another use on the
property. Um, and then the question is, you know, storage setbacks and the like how that would play out. So, >> I don't know if it's another use because it's it's it's the recycling of the main product, which is the concrete. So, it
may not be another use, but there is a location. >> Please testify to it. That's why I'm bringing it up. >> Where would that occur? Do you So, if there was no permitting of doing that, we would just dump the concrete out and take it to a local facility. But do you need like for example you see
where you see where the bins are? >> Yes. >> No, it doesn't take it's the block is 2 feet wide by two feet wide. It's 2 by two. It's the size of uh it's not even half the size of this table and the height is uh 2 ft high also. It's 2 by 2
by two. But that's not an important component of your >> No, it doesn't. If we we do it not to create waste. >> It's more for recycling purpos. >> It's more right to not to have stuff to go to recycle and be used and thrown in the garbage.
>> You know, >> thank you, Dr. Hoffstein. Uh just to piggy back off that, um S, the argument could be made that it would be a manufacturing. I understand the point you're making that it's it's to recycle the the material the the um byproduct if
you will of your uh primary product production but it there is an argument to be made there. So I just want that on the record. >> That's okay. But and and the truth is it's such a it's not important. It's not worth debating. If you don't want it, we won't do it. It's >> right. It is a minute point. But I did
want to just >> I agree. I understand. >> Just address that to the board. Um just to uh circle back on we had you had touched earlier in in your statement about the noise and how there it really isn't anything that um would be
considered um a nuisance or anything u >> offensive. Thank you. I could I couldn't remember the word used. I just want to again put on the record for the board that uh we do have noise ordinances on the books. um more specifically to reference 291-1.1
for construction and/or demolition work, which uh just states a slight differential of hours outside of the um statement of operation hours that you stated in the most recent January 22nd, 2026. You had put from 6 to 6. And I
just wanted to put on the record that uh this exact reference, this prohibit prohibition, excuse me, is regardless of the noise generated as set forth elsewhere in this chapter. And it does specify construction and and or demolition work. Again, an argument can
be made and it goes into specify that uh 8:00 p.m. to 7 a.m. is quiet hours Monday through Friday. Uh and on it's 8:00 p.m. to 8:00 a.m. on weekends and any federally recognized holiday. So, that is just something to keep in mind because his statement of operations does
kind of operate outside. I don't know. He he does um the applicant does state that is not going to be a fence of noise, but again, just want to put on the record. >> Thank you. >> And I'm not sure this is considered construction, Gina. So, um, but again, I
I guess the question is, can if if if the issue is starting at 6:00 a.m. or 7:00 a.m., is that >> So, we don't really start sending the concrete out until after 7 usually, but we open the gates up and we have preparation work to do before we just
start turning the plant on and going. So, you know, the workers got to come in, they get themselves settled, uh, they got to turn the plant on itself, you know, the power to the plant. We don't leave it on overnight and unguarded. So there's a couple of there's about 30 to 40 minutes of
preparation. So they would just be on site but not making noise at those times. And the last load, we don't want to be delivering concrete in the dark. So 3 4:00 is the last time the plant usually goes on unless something if we have like a situation where somebody ran
a little short. But majority of the time, >> you know, where they're union labor, so with after eight hours, it's time and a half. And >> pro union, right? >> Thank you for clarifying. And it it doesn't say that you can't operate those hours. Businesses are are open those
hours all throughout town. It just I wanted to just put it on the record so you as the applicant know and as well as the board knew that that those noises and it it I know I'm not going to bug you, S. goes into more definitions if we want to go there, but I just I'm very transparent and I like to clarify
>> and the board can't give relief to that anyway, right? We >> correct. >> We have to comply whether we like it or not. >> Right. It was more true of transparency so the applicant knew as well. >> Thank you. >> Um just if you could clarify the concrete trucks, do they have to pour within a certain amount of time and
therefore they're limited on how far they could service? >> Yeah. It's on. Yeah, it's on. A load of concrete is good for usually uh 90 minutes unless some chemicals added and then you usually get about 120 minutes
out of it. >> Okay. And that's why you chose this location. It's close to I 95 or >> Right. It's close to I95. It's close to 195. So, you know, you're very uh you're close to many a lot of the major
intersections. Okay. Thank you. the comment. >> Mr. Garafola, thank you for your testimony. I just trying to fill in some numerical blanks. Um, average concrete truck, how much concrete's in it? >> 10 yards. 11 10 or 11 yards depending on
the design of the truck. >> So, if you've got five trucks, three loads a day, that's around figured 150 yards a day. >> Yeah. Um, I guess I'm I'm trying to make sure that there's adequate room in circulation. And this may be more of a Mr. Bordon
comment about how much material gets brought in. So, if you build if you're creating 150 yards of concrete a day, how many yards of stone? How many yards of sand? How many yards of cement? How many? >> So, it's about 75 to 80 tons of sand and
sand and stone are probably the exact um amount of ingredients in the in the product. >> I guess to Mr. Alfier, at some point we're going to figure out where these are going to go. We're doing
>> I'm sorry. >> You where the product's going to be stored. >> Yes. Yeah, we know where they're going to be stored. >> Okay. >> In those bins. And that's why he said there will be several trips a day where they'll be receiving the product. The um the
>> the raw material. >> Raw materials. Yes. >> Um what's the fuel source for the batch plant? >> The fuel source is electric. >> Okay. Is it just regular whatever's out on >> Yeah, we checked it out. They you do
that. The power is out there. We might have to be a little bit increased to what is there now, but it's sufficient. It's sufficient to what we what we run off of. >> Okay. Um I guess this is more of a a neighborly comment. Um you understand that right
next door is a park and ride facility. >> Yes. Um, so while the number of trucks, the hours of trucks, the noise in the trucks, I don't know if that bothers anybody, dust is going to bother people. Um, can you
without making cast and stone promises? Can can you talk about dust control for this type of use? is I don't know maybe two people on the board have probably been to a batch plant. >> Okay.
>> So could right next door are Jackson Township residents who commute every day. You're going to be a new use next door. Give them some assurance that the the type of use you're proposing doesn't create this cloud of dust that's going to end up on people's cars next door.
So we all the products that go into the truck the sand the stone uh powder is kept stored and the airtight obviously cannot get wet. So if it was able to blow away that mean that our silo would be was not airtight. So we'd be getting
water inside we' have rocks inside. So we perform test every day. We clean the streets. One of the guys that works at the plant is just the design to hose and keep everything, you know, dust control down. The guys also wash their, you know, rinse down their truck to get any
dust off as they're leaving the plant. Tires are washed. >> I appreciate that. That's all, Mr. Chair. >> Yeah. Any other comments? Uh, >> yes. Um, so on the dust collector, right? Um, on
these pictures that we got, is there a picture of that dust collector on here or like how I'm just trying to imagine how big it is? And you don't have to. That's okay. I just know you had a lot of pictures and uh thought may thought
maybe the the actual dust collector might be on. >> Anthony, could you go to A3, please? >> Yeah, exactly. Yeah, I was I was looking here. Yeah, exactly. That one. Yeah. Is there a picture?
>> To me, that's a critical piece of you know. >> Absolutely. >> So, up there is the muffler. So, prevents the noise, >> but you can't I can't really It's on the other side. It's not really showing you. Oh, there. Right on there is a dust collector. And that is the muffler for
the dust collector that that that keeps it to a quiet. >> Okay. Okay. So that's okay. >> That's the muffler. And then if you go to the other picture and scroll up a little bit, >> right there's the blower motor. That whole thing is the blowing motor
>> that that that um sucks the dust from the load point area which is right here. >> Okay. It So let me ask you so it sucks it and then where does it go? the the all the collection from the >> cleaned up >> from the the cement dust goes back into
the silo and is reused. >> Oh, okay. >> Right. >> Save you money. >> Save me cleaning money from cleaning. >> Yeah. Um Okay. Thank you. That does lead me to my next question. So, this CM
what do you guys call it? >> Small. >> Smco 275. So, in your have you used this machine before in your other locations? >> Yes, I have one of them now. I actually have two of them right now. >> Okay. Have you had any problems with it? Especially leaking of the dust and all
like does it work good? Is this a good machine? >> It's that machine's over a million about a million and a half bucks. So, it better be good. Okay. >> But it's we built the Tyan Amazon facility in Staten Island with one of those machines. >> Okay.
And you haven't had any issues with the blowers and the sucking up the >> sucking up the cement, right? In your other locations. >> No, we don't have any. Thank God because we're under the same. We're actually under I think a highest higher
standards. We deal with a lot of um a lot more agencies in New York than New Jersey has. >> Yeah. Yeah. But but I would figure you probably have more residential stuff around you. card but yeah commercial zone similar to this. >> Yes. Okay. Yeah. I I just want to Yeah. your experience with with this machine
specifically. So you do have experience with it. Um so that gives a little credibility to everything that you're telling us. Um so I appreciate that. Okay. Hold on a second. Um oh just just so you understand there's there's a pinch valve. It's called a
pinch valve on the side of the plant. >> Yeah. that there's indicators for the bins. So, if it ever was going to overflow, that thing, the the pinch valve locks out the truck from pumping anything, so it could never come out of the top of the silo. >> Okay. Okay, fair enough. Um, and so my
other little concern, so it's mobile, right? >> Yes. >> Your other ones are also mobile. >> Yes. >> You've never had strong enough wind that would tip it over? >> No. That thing holds 80 tons of cemented cement powder inside alone. Okay. You
look at it, it's really tall and I know we get a lot of wind around here. Um, so but it's never tipped over. Nothing like that. >> I've never heard of any concrete plant tipping over. >> Okay. Well, yeah. I mean, you know, it's called low uh mobile, so you kind of
>> Yeah. No, I understand. >> Yep. Okay. Thank you for that as well. And I think I'm done. Thank you. >> Any other comments from the board? Do you have any other witness you'd like to present? >> Scott Kennel be brief because the
traffic is minimal and then Ian's going to come up and just wrap up the planning testimony. But Scott will promise we'll be no more than three minutes direct. >> Thank you. >> No pressure, Scott. >> Excellent. Just pointing out it's 10:17. >> Yes.
>> You swear affirm that the testimony you'll give before this board will be the truth and nothing but the truth. >> Yes, I do. >> And please state your name and credentials for the record. Yes, Scott Kennel keen nel with Mcdana and Ray Associates located at 1431 Lakewood Road
Manisquan. I'm a principal with Mcdana and Ray Associates with over 40 years of traffic and transportation planning experience having testified in over 2,000 site plan applications and been qualified by New Jersey Superior Court as a traffic expert. >> Okay, I accept your
>> Thank you, Scott. So you heard the operational testimony um and the concern would be what the traffic impact if any this would have on the local roads. >> Correct. And and we provided estimates in our report dated December 5, 2025 based on the statement of operations in
the prior testimony. We developed traffic projections during the morning and afternoon peak hours and basically projected traffic uh two-way traffic at 20 trips in the morning, 20 trips in the afternoon. Uh and those
generally occur when the employees are arriving at the site and when the employees are leaving the site the end of the day and that is well below the threshold that is typically uh considered of a 100 trips for studying an off-site location. and my our firm has been involved in another application
that was on progress place where intersects Cedar Swamp and and we came up with level service C at that location. The other thing I'll I'll uh speak to that was raised as a question at the last hearing was the site distance at progress and Cedar
Swamp based on the speed limit of Cedar Swamp Road. A site distance of 610 ft is required. The sight distance to the north is in excess of 800 ft as well as the site distance to the south is in excess of
800 ft. So the site distance at the intersection of Progress and Cedar Swamp uh meets and exceeds the recommended standards. Uh and again as far as on-site circulation, I've reviewed the plans
repaired by Ian and and agree with uh that the site has been designed to accommodate the large wheelbase vehicles that will be servicing the site. >> That's all we have of Mr. C. Mr. Chair. question.
>> So the is your testimony that the slow moving ve you know trucks that are going to be exiting the facility are not going to be affected or affecting the traffic on the road on Progress. >> Well again there's a lot of other heavy
vehicles that use Progress as part of the other industrial buildings. So again the type of tra uh traffic generated by this site is consistent with other users that are exist on progress and the fact that we have sight distance in ex well in excess of recommended standards will
accommodate those vehicles that have a lower acceleration than passenger vehicles >> and the fact that it's next door to the park and ride. How does that affect it's >> no impact from my perspective? Uh again, as far as the morning time period,
there's some overlap, but in the afternoon, most commuters leave after 6:00, and this operation, as indicated, will all likely be closed by 4:30, 5:00. >> Thank you. Besides, there are that many buses coming and going during the day.
Uh anyway, um >> yeah, and there's only essentially 15 trips during the course of the day. five truck trucks three times a day. So, and they're spread out. So, it's really minimal. >> When when I visited the site, directly across the street, there were maybe 15
to 20 cars parked in front of the building, which has enough parking in the back for people who use the building. Um, do you have any idea where that's coming from or is it just people who are using the >> But you want to use the front of the
building. It's more convenient than where the the parking spaces are. I I don't know. I'm not aware of uh what the cause of that situation is and why that occurs. >> I just thought it was maybe people who didn't want to pay pay for parking. >> Well, that may be too I don't if there's
a if there's a fee or a permit fee for to park in that lot. That may be the cost. >> There is for people out of Jackson. >> Okay. >> Other questions? Yes. >> The the 800 foot sight line. The 800 foot sight line that you have. Correct.
Yes. >> What does that equate back to for a speed of a car coming down Cedar Swamp? >> Oh, that's it's it's in excess of a 70 mph design speed. >> So, I know that people do travel more than 50 and the design speed or the 610
ft that I I presented was based on a design speed of 55 miles per hour. Further questions? Okay, >> one more time. We'll open this to the public. Anybody wishing to come forward to make any comments on previous
testimony, please come forward. Nobody come forward. Public session is closed. Mr. >> Thank you. Now, we're just going to recall Mr. Bordon to just tie the planning testimony to the operational
testimony. and he'll also be brief since it's now 10 20 something >> 23 who's counting. >> Mr. Bordon, you're still under oath and you're still a planner. >> Yes. >> Okay. Go ahead.
>> So, what we have is >> the microphone. Now it is >> the batch plan is the uh principal building which has a front setback of 102 ft a rear set back to wetlands greater than 50 ft. So no varianes are
required for the location of that. The office uh trailer is a accessory building which is not permitted in the front yard uh which is 100 ft. So we will turn that sideways and ensure that it's more than 100 ft from progress
place. The rear setback required for an accessory building is uh 50 feet. By turning it sideways, we save 20 feet of setback. So the rear setback will be approximately 33 ft. So, uh, I I would
testify that that would be a a C1 variance due to the exceptional shape and of the property being as I testified earlier that, uh, the the the pinch, thank you, between the wetlands and the progress placeaway
line. We certainly minimize that by turning the building and complying with the front setback is is, I think, more important. uh creating the variance at the rear of the of the trailer than than in the front. Uh as I earlier testified,
we do comply with the building coverage and impervious coverage requirements. Um there were previous set uh variances granted on the original approval for the parking setback from the rightway um as well as the property line 13 ft to
the rightway and 1.5 to the property line where 20 and 10 are respectively required. those were those are pre-existing approved variances that are constructed and are not being exacerbated by this project. So, and on the use uh we have the LM
zone which permits uh processing and assembly. Get into my notes here. Um uh in in my opinion the uh the use is uh is permitted under the uh the language in the ordinance. The zoning officer had
determined that the use was not the pre I guess Mr. Burough had decided that the use was not permitted. So although I do believe is permitted, I believe I testified at the December 17th meeting that will will put facts on the record to justify the uh the D1 variance as an
expansion of an existing non-conforming use under a D2 criteria. Uh because this uh this site had been granted a devariance for the uh parking previous parking use. Um and in my opinion it it
complies with the u purpose of zoning under A uh to encourage municipal action to guide the appropriate development of all lands under uh G to provide sufficient space and appropriate locations for a v variety of uses in accordance with the environmental
requirements. We do comply with all environmental requirements. The site is a light industrial zone. We are proposing a light industrial use. The Medici rules do not apply here. Instead, what we have is an uh we have to show particular suitability of this use to
this site. And uh in my opinion, clearly the fact that the site has already been approved and developed as a lead manufacturing uh use or was granted a variance in the light manufacturing zone. um it's particularly suitable
because obviously the alternative would be to find a site for this use that's not developed and and develop on an undeveloped piece of property and this is much preferred and particularly suitable uh for this particular use. So
I believe the uh we meet the depositive purposes of zoning and this proposed use does not substantially uh is not a substantial detriment to the public good nor the master plan zone plan and and ordinances
especially since the master plan encourages specifically encourages processing uses in the LM zone. >> That's all we have. >> Yeah. Any closing comments? >> Well, I don't know if um Ernie always likes to ask a planning question. I
don't know if he has any. Ernie? No. >> But if if there are none, I do have a a one minute closing statement. >> And I'm so sorry. That's a >> um yeah I don't know if this is a planning but so that permit the NPDES
>> Egypties >> yeah uh is that going to be a stipulation that you have to get that >> we have no choice we have to get it >> have to get it otherwise >> we will we will acknowledge >> we can't start >> we'll acknowledge in the uh resolution
that there was a representation made that that is a required permit that will be obtained >> as well as any other all outside agencies Okay. And then then I can't help myself. I'm an ex auditor. In the statement of operations, there's a little typo. I'll show you guys later if
you want to fix it or not. >> Okay. >> In one place we call it M MCBP. >> Okay. >> Which is the mobile concrete batch plant. And then right below it, we call it MCPB. >> That's my >> Yeah. So anyway,
>> sometimes I wonder if I'm dyslexic. >> We know. Uh what was for discussion? I I think one of the >> No, I just think I mean to compare this this use to what was previously approved with the outdoor storage of all those that all that material and equipment and
the traffic that we generated by that to this minimal use. We think it's a home run for the town to have this instead of the approved use. >> That's all. >> Thank you. And if I just may uh just so that we're all uh clear there's a
release they requested relief is for use variance for installation of a mobile batch plant and uh mobile office with restroom both to be permanent structures despite portability. The mobile batch point being the primary uh structure and
the mobile office with restroom is secondary. The um variances that were discussed were the uh rear uh also on the rear yard was 50 required, 30s proposed. Um the other
variance was eliminated by the reconfiguration uh reorientation of the office. Um, you've heard the testimony on the positive negative criteria and the conditions that were discussed that they will not be moved around on the site even though it's called mobile that it
will be a permanent structure. Maximum of five trucks to be parked on the site at any given time. Well, storage standards from the 2022 approvals will continue to be on the site. It will be the only business on the site and the only batch only will be only one
batch plan. hours of operation 6 to six restroom to be on a septic system. Um there will be a well on site next to the batch plant. There will be knockbox for emergency services. Um as uh
and approval from the Bureau of Fire Prevention will be required. Um, and as stated, there'll be an acknowledgement about need for outside approvals, including in Jifies, no maintenance of the trucks on site, no manufacturing of block on site, all industrial activity
to remain shielded from the street. >> Just to clarify, was that flipping the uh office building? I don't think it took away the setback. I think it just made it a little bit smaller. >> It took away the front yard setback and it made the rear yard set back. She did
from >> Thank you. Yes. >> That would that was eliminated. >> Thank you. >> You included septic in the >> Okay. Any >> further comments?
>> We'll have a motion. >> I would just say that originally when they came to us at the first meeting, I was pretty skeptical. After this meeting, I think we got a lot of clarity. Um, and I think it's a great application and enhancement and with all
the stipulations mentioned, um, I think that it's consistent with the master plan, the positive criteria. Um, I would make a motion to approve. >> I second that. >> Mr. Heyman, >> yes. >> Mr. Martins,
>> yes. >> Mr. Rosal, >> yes. >> Mr. Mr. Tremor, >> I'm voting yes, but I believe you're going to have a major problem with dust at certain times of the year, but that's on you. So, yes, >> Miss Cusano. >> Yes, >> Mr. Seleia.
>> Yeah, I have the same concerns that Mr. Tremor has. I I don't know if this is the best thing for the site, but um I'll vote yes, but I do have some concerns. >> Okay. Yes. Yes.
>> Are you a Yes. >> Yes. >> Sorry. And Dr. Hoffsy. >> Yes. >> Thank you. >> Thank you very much. >> Motion to close. >> Have a motion to adjourn. >> Yes. Motion. >> Second. >> All in favor?
You you get you get an honor.