##VIDEO ID:I93GteG7ZFg## good evening everyone welcome to the Monday December 16th regular city council meeting our last meeting of the year and we have a 480 page packet to go with it please join us for an invitation and salute to the flag led by Mr let us pray good gracious heavenly father as I lift my brother and sister up in prayer tonight we're reminded that you ask very little of us you make very much of what you do like us Lord we just ask that we that you guide us and help us to to avoid underestimating those gifts that you give us Lord we ask that you give us strength and be faithful for the talents and treasures that you give us as well in this Christmas season we're reminded that unto us a king was born that King is Jesus Christ Our Lord and Savior and B in this name we pray amen amen to the flag of the United States of America the repu for stands one nation God indivisible with liy and justice for all meeting is called the order council member Golding here council member horn here council member Json here council member Sutton here council member Wagner here council member wers here mayor Hoffman here moving on to approval of minutes item a I I make a motion to approve the minutes for the regular city council meeting held on December 2nd 2024 second we have a motion on a second any discussion all in favor signify by saying iOS motion carries Item B move we approve the minutes from the city council briefing held on December 9th 2024 second we have a motion on a second any discussion this holding uh thank you on page two of three under the miscellaneous city managers items the third item says Mr stopus stated a briefing with Senator clay yo and state representative Ken Michael would be held on January 6th 2025 um I'd like to have the minutes corrected to reflect that the council also discussed agenda topics that would be discussed with the legislators in the January 6th meeting uh we have an amendment and a second any discussion we'll just do a Voice vote in on that one all in favor signify by saying I opposed okay back to the motion as amended any other discussion all in favor signified by saying I any opposed minutes have passed approval of the agenda I move we approve the agenda second we have a motion at second any discussion all in favor signify by saying I I any a post agenda is approved I'm going to go first on announcements today I'm going to take Chairman's privilege and uh in recognition of the fact that these jobs that we have up here as city council members are not our full-time jobs and that we have some lives and careers beyond that our own John Wagner was recognized by the University of North Florida and international Healthcare Symposium as the inaugural North Florida healthc care leader of the Year and that sounds like a huge for his his work not only in the healthcare industry but in the community that we see every day here so congratulations John and thank you for your service thank you Miss gold thank you mayor uh first of all I wanted to mention that the our Jack speech Police Department had the children's Christmas party this past Saturday and it was a wonderful party I don't I'm I didn't hear how many kids attended but I was only here for a short while and there were already 15 people who had been here I want to thank Sergeant Tater and her team and the whole Police Department who helped put that on as well as the CPA uh volunteers Mr and Mrs Claus um the kids had a great time I would have liked to have come to something like that when I was a kid games crafts hot cocoa and also want to recognize Rockaway who donated two gorgeous trees for the party and um uh it was very generous of them to do that I also want to thank our Police Department who is partnering with the San Pabo Elementary School in San Pablo Elementary PTA to uh collect donations to stuff stockings for local kids in need um our Police Department is amazing and then also want to let everybody know if you didn't know about it that we have the 50th citizens Police Academy that will be starting on January 9th and the last class will be April 3rd it meets Thursday nights from 6:30 to 9:30 if you haven't taken the citizens Police Academy I highly recommend it I think a lot of us a lot of us up here on the de have taken it but you get a behind the scenes um look into our police department and I promise you you will have your eyes opened about all the things that our police department does and what goes on goes on in our community um there's a deadline to submit an application and that's December 27th and you can go to our Facebook City's Facebook page or the police department's Facebook page and find a link to that also want to mention that our um representative Ken Michael is having a town hall on Saturday December 21st from 12: to 4: and this is going to be at her Jack Beach office which is just North of here at 421 3rd Street north um it'll be an opportunity to meet her and discuss any issues um or ideas that you may have in preparation for this upcoming legislative session and uh also on the fun side of things I want to mention that today is National chocolate covered anything day my kind of day and then this Wednesday is answer the telephone like Buddy the elf day does anybody know how Buddy the elf answers to the telephone please demonstrate Buddy the elf what your favorite color so anyway and then Friday is National ugly sweater day so anyway all kidding aside though I do want to acknowledge the holidays that are coming up um Hanukkah begins December 25th and goes through January 2nd Christmas of course is December 25th and Quanza starts December 26th and goes through January 1st so for all of our all of our neighbors who celebrate Hanukkah Christmas or Quanza I wish you a very happy Hanukkah Christmas or Quanza and happy New Year to everyone and um it's been a pleasure serving with all of you this year and I look forward to a great 2025 very thank you Miss Golding Mr Janson now on for the very boring stuff uh I'm just going to recap that we talked about at our Council briefing last Monday uh kind of bring everybody up the speed that the uh had our last quarter pension meeting of the Year and happy to announce that our pension has done the best that's ever done in the past 40 years number one and then number two we're doing better than 75% of all pensions in the United States so uh had ourselves on the back for an amazing uh pension board doing a great job for for employees and then secondly the lead priorities for my policy committee meeting is affordable housing and impact fees we don't have any impact fees in tax Beach so that's not going to be an issue for us and affordable housing we'll see how that pans out because it's going to be directly associated with the live local act and I expect that there's going to be some glitch bills coming down to pipe of reference to that so we'll see how that PS out as the year progresses thank you Mr Jansen Mr senon uh thank you and just to us repeat and second what councilwoman Golding said about the uh Christmas party and Santa visit it was uh certainly well attended and a load of kids were here and um if anybody would like to see a picture of uh Chief Smith inside that little gingerbread house I have one highest bitter wins um and uh just wanted to bring up one thing in this season of uh you know joyous occasion and celebration I wanted to kind of lift up The Windgate family um Owen and and West are great partners for um myself at at Florida blue and they're good partners for us here at the city of Jacksonville Beach and anytime you lose someone it's difficult but uh West lost his wife on the 11th uh way too young and um I know councilman Jansen and councilman Wagner and myself were childhood friends of both U West and Owen and Rhonda and U just to recognize uh Jenny winggate and ask that you keep The Windgate family and your thoughts and prayers especially at this this difficult time thank you Mr suon Mr ragner um so yeah thank you for mentioning that councelor Sutton and you know I I know our family's Hearts go out to them West and I played PK one and football together you know those type of relationships are hard so Ouray thoughts of prayers are with them as well changed topic a little bit so not only did was Saturday a beautiful day because of what the the Fire or the police department did with Santa here at City Hall but if you were experienced downtown at all on Saturday you would have been so proud of this place so we started our day at the museum with the the the Christmas Express I'm mil the wrong thing but I'm getting close uh there were kids there and games and all types of fun stuff leave that come over to City Hall see the Christmas events and then just the number of people that were out for deck for the deck the chairs was just literally amazing the restaurants look full everything just seemed to be just like people want it maybe one day a year but I think I think it's a good day for us to build on and really kind of keep in mind is we as we target familyfriendly environment this family friendly downtown that we want I mean we have some really good days and so we really have a lot of wonderful things to build on just wanted to share if you didn't get a chance to experience that it was it was Harding so thank you Mr Janson yeah I just uh Mr suon reminded me if you hadn't heard the news today there was a um there was another schooll shooting and so uh if you're inclined to pray please pray for those families in Madison Wisconsin where there were several victims in that that police shoot we are all across the board with our announcements today but since you brought up the beaches Museum I will say we had a record-breaking beaches North that's my day job I run the beaches Museum we had a record-breaking beaches North Pole Express huge success and then on Thursday we will have our last event of the year um our last event of the year which is Christmas at the cabin open to the public come on over first some festive cheer and then on the 26th to tag on to miss golding's announcement we are actually having our first ever manura lighting so we'll be working with um habad at the beaches uh to host that over there out in the um Park uh by the train uh any other announcements seeing then we'll move on to curtesy of the Florida visitors I do not have any speaker cards that are not attached to an agenda item anything else M for okay consent agenda I move to accept the consent agenda second we have a motion and a second all in favor I by say I I any oppos consent agenda carries okay moving on to city manager new business this is uh kind of a different one for us I think this is the first time I've been involved uh in a bid protest since I've been on Council which we all know is a long long time um but I'm going to turn it over to Mr stopulos to give us a background of this issue thank you mayor council um this item as the mayor indicated is with regards to a bid protest related to bid number 24251 which is for Dune walkovers our annual program to replace Dune walkovers here at the beach uh back on in November on November 15th the city received a bid protest from construct Co which was the second lowest bidder um it was within the time frames of our procurement policy for filing a protest with regards to the bid award the bid Ward uh process that we have or the bid protest process within our procurement policy is a two-step process and the first step is through the city manager's office um after evaluating the bid protest that was filed the bid protest was rejected by the city manager's office they did however file an appeal and did So within the time frames contained within our procurement policy as such the appeal is heard by the city council for a final determination on whether or not to uh to issue the bid protest or to deny the bid protest uh we do have representatives from all of our key departments here tonight that were involved in the Pro in the process we have Finance procurement Public Works and uh representatives for our consulting firm at for Waters here should have any questions for them during the appeal process with that being said I'm going to turn it over to the City attorney who will give you a little bit more specifics as to what your role is tonight in the decision making process thank you and the city manager all already covered the vast majority uh V majority of it but under our bid protest process at this stage once it's and also the action requested of the city uh that they did do that in the written appeal and then otherwise your purchasing policy does not give any more specifics uh it simply says the decision of the city council shall be final so you're going to hear whatever evidence you hear you can ask any questions of anyone that you need to but if you choose to approve the appeal uh essentially I think you're finding that you found an issue or a problem with the procurement process uh and if you choose to disapprove or deny the appeal uh the solicitation award the rec recommended award would be upheld we do have a subsequent agenda item to award this bid which will take shape based on how you handle this item uh and I will answer any legal questions anyone has thank you okay so um this again a little bit different than how we normally run our meetings at our agenda items um but at this point we'll have an opportunity for public comment I don't have any speaker cards on this issue but if anyone would like to um speak in favor of the appeal if you'd like to come up to the voting give us your name and address we'll have 3 minutes for you to address the council good evening and thank you for allowing us to be here my name is Joseph A Lane L A NE e I'm with the louns law firm in Orlando 215 northy old Drive Orlando 32801 and with me is Brandon Jose one of our Council and that's our presentation for personnel so I have a few minutes to talk so I'm going to talk and try to be as suent as I can I guess I got to say a little background hoping this will make better sense cuz I don't know what any anybody up here has by way of background in the subject matter of what we're talking about public procurement which is what you do here is largely based on Advertising what you want and then collecting normally hard bids meaning specific dollar bids sometimes proposals but tonight we have a hard bid but in between the two points the public procurement law is very clear that you as the owner public owner must be clear as to what you want and the requirements for the work and likewise the biders have to respond to what you want if that doesn't work we have a short view between the two we're here tonight in a word because we think when you look at these documents I'll go through them very quickly it's very clear the appearent load bidder did not comply with the information and requirements you wanted for this project so that's why we're here we our request is that our appeal be granted and constructo be awarded the project because they are the in fact the lowest responsive responsible bidder so to get there with our protest and I don't I don't know whether you all have that up there or not no yes oh you do okay thank you we say this in very blunt language the apparent low that you're intending to award to has not complied with your instructions has not complied with your instructions so under Florida law which is enforced all the time by the appellant courts you must reverse what has happened here because you're not getting what you proposed on or proposed for in particular the problem is that you requested the bidder have a General a blank for a general contractor's license number or right below it a an underground utility contractor's license general contractor's license or under that a line for a marine Contractor License the difference is basically this and that's an or and I I'll tell you why we think that the GC is an unlimited license the GC can perform underground work or he can subcontract it either way but that's other than another type of contractor which we don't go into because it's not relevant tonight everybody else is a division 2 contractor which means they're a specialty contractor and as a specialty contractor you can do the work within your specialty and you can subcontract work that is within your specialty because it is within your license Authority but if you're not um if you're not a division one you cannot just wholesale subcontract work now to continue on a second if you could just kind of wrap up really quick and we have the council have opportunities to ask you questions as well I just want to get get an opportunity to get everybody on the board that wants to speak okay I can't cut this but so short but I will do everything I can you will try I will try thank you your bid form which is in our package and you can look at it has a line I think it's on the top of the second page if I'm remembering right fill in your GC license or in the line below fill in your underground utility license you might say well why if you look at the bid spec the work involved here involves some underground circumstances where they cannot predict ahead of time what they will find and they say as much in the mid speec so you need somebody who can do the underground work or you need a general constractor who can do any work including subcontract to a underground contractor the problem here is that the party you're intending to give this award to wrote in to the top blank you didn't write a general contractor number in because he's not a general contractor and he didn't write any other numbers in he just wrote in a marine Contractor License and as we have said in our protest I won't spend the time to go back over it it's in the protest a marine contractor is a division 2 specialty contractor he can do what is within his authority in the statute which is not underground work he cannot subcontract Underground work so in essence the the apparent low bidder has not complied with your informational requirements are you a GC or an underground utility contractor I think we've got the Crux of your argument on that if you don't mind we'll go to see who else needs to speak and then give the council an opportunity to deliberate okay is there anyone else who would like to speak in favor of the bid protest is there anyone who would like to speak against the bid protest okay seeing no one no one else from in the public would like to speak on this issue can we get a motion please okay I'm going to make a motion to disapprove the appeal of the bid protest for bid number 24 25-01 for the construction of 20 Dune walkovers second we have a motion in a second Mr City attorney can you just please again for the council clarify again what a vote to disapprove means sure so there's now a motion on the table city council is welcome to discuss it ask any questions of of anyone but based on the motion on the table the if it if this motion is approved the bid protest would be denied and then you're likely uh Next Step would be on the next agenda item to award the bid to the original low bidder if you so desire motion to deny means to disapprove that's on the floor if this passes would um deny the bid protest thank you yes okay we have a motion and a second on uh the motion to disapprove the appeal is there any uh questions or comments from Council Mr Horn uh Mr Baron so is there underground are there underground utilities to be addressed here um and not that we're aware of uh the only underground I'm sorry can you just come to Podi Mr Lane if you want to just take your seat we'll call you if we have any questions for you I want to make sure everything is uh audible to anyone who may be listening as well as to the court reporter who is here in the room thank Dennis bar Public Works director uh to our knowledge there isn't any underground required uh the underground work that would be required would be to remove the existing structures uh pull them up from the sand and then dispose of them as part of Demolition and then ultimately to be able to drive the new piles that support the new overhead structures that go in above hand and that would be the only underground work that would be coordinated and we this is a continuation of the Dune walkovers that we just did how many did we do last year or the year we did 17 last year and that's it's the same project just a new set a different set set of 13 in 2025 and then the subsequent s in 2026 okay and to your understanding did any was there encountered any underground utilities during any of that work no sir um the City attorney does aside from the protest does the B bidder the current low bitter do they are do they have a license that would allow them to do this work are they aside from the complaint that they are not able to do the work which I'm not 100% sure according to our um Public Works director that they need to do underground utilities work is the current bter able to do this I know there was a question being a marine contractor versus a general contractor versus so in your in your packet um I just want to show what was written down exhibit F in the packet is the bid proposal form from um Marines I forget the the current low bidder C cnh yes uh and they list a marine specialty contractor and a contract number in the Florida administrative code which is uh rules set up by administrative agencies in the State of Florida based on statutory Authority from the legislature uh rule 61 g41 15.10 is a the rule for certified specialty contractors and under paragraph 1B there is a definition for what a marine specialty contractor is qualified to do and I'm I'm paraphrasing the gist of not the entire paragraph but it says a marine specialty contractor is qualified and certified by the board to perform any work involving the construction repair alteration extension and excavation for and it lists several uh items after there one of which is specifically listed as Doom crossovers so when I read that I see if someone who has a marine specialty contractor can do repair alteration construction regarding Doom cross over beyond that I don't have technical experience but that's what I read in the Florida mistri code and I hope that answered your question it does thank you Mr Jansen yeah so I did review those documents I did see where where in the code that it did line up with the Marine contractor um and I did get the answer about the underground utilities from our attorney earlier today question for you I don't know if it's for you or our city manager has um has the low B done work for us previously so from my understanding um that question was checked out and neither uh construct company the the appellant in this uh request nor uh cnh Marine neither one of them have done work for the city uh our third bidder which was the highest bidder in this instance was the one that constructed the the the 17 from last year okay thank you Mr wers yeah Mr Baron this is not quite on point but it's it's Weighing on my heart so I want to ask on the 12th Avenue South walk over that was constructed some time ago it's on my street and when it was built it was very nice and then in a short period of time underneath the stairs um it became filled with sand and then after a few more years the whole thing was filled with sand became unusable do we have any assurance that these new walkovers are going to last so the the newest walkovers including the ones you're talking about um are constructed at the new deck elevation of 17t um at 17t that is supposed to be 3T above the engineered height of the Dune now engineered height of the Dune is exactly what the renourishment project did they put it at uh 14 ft and walked away once they walk away the wind and the sand and everything that's blown in will change those Dunes to actually be what Dunes are so some will take over that new pipe that's why we build at 3ft deck elevation above the con above the engineered sign of the Dune once it does take over the walkover we don't go back in and clear the sand for the dun the dunes remain as to what the dunes are and then so ultimately the only constriction to that would be how high we ultimately raise we've we've stuck with 3 ft above the engineered height since we began the rebuilding process um which was started right as I came in 5 years ago if I can just ask one last followup the the walk over on 9th Avenue North has 2 by 12s along the bottom to prevent sand from piling in I looked at schematics as best as I can find them are these are these new ones going to have that feature um that's an indiv ual design question I don't have that I'd have to review the plans and then get back to you with an answer for that one thank you Miss Golding so Dennis can you tell me the contractor that did the um dun walkovers previously this past year did they have a general contractor's license or a specialty Marine licens do you know a marine specialty contractor licensed I I don't know that answer and I did not print their submitt so I don't have that data handy know do either of you have that by Chance the uh um I don't third one get you're saying you can go get it I can pull the bid response it take me a couple minutes I can go through that I I mean to me it if we awarded it to a marine specialty contractor previously I mean I think that would be good to know they had both they had a general and a utility come on up here this is uh Michael clink he's our consultant with four Waters who represented Us in this go ahead who you are Michael clink with four Waters engineering uh we help put the B documents together uh Greenway Bridge LLC had a general contractor and utility license that they listed for both but not but not a marine specialty contractor no okay that's Mr City attorney yeah I just wanted to clarify and remind Council that this bid protest is based on on this bid so while some of these questions are good for the big picture we should be focusing on on our decision on what was in this bid package Ag and whether or not you agree with with the merits of the argument brought by the bit protester thank you any other questions or comments from Council Mr Lane I'm going to give you an opportunity to provide some closing statements that I'm going to hold you to for three minutes please my closing statement is this I fear I'm not being heard we do not question whether a marine contractor can construct the overwalk at the carpentry job above the ground with some post in the ground we're not talking about that we're talking about the utilities and since you have the documents if you will please read your bits back you will find a good two pages or more where the city is disclaiming that the plans being provided accurately show all of the utility impacts that could occur on the project site which is why I suggest to you somebody wrote Into the bid document what is your general contractor's license or what is your underground utility license this was foreseen by somebody who wrote that document and wrote it for a good reason if there is a conflict if you need to De energize a line re-energize a line you the storm sewer impact you need to be licensed to do that and I fear you're not hearing what I'm saying I'm not talking about the crossover talking about the utility impact that your document go on and on being very careful excuse me to warn that we are not telling you where all the utility conflicts could be because we don't know so that is why the utility license is very important and also why the GC license is very important because the GC can subcontract any work to Downstream to a sub who's qualified to do the job so th this is a problem this is not as clean as you think it is sitting there saying well we've done it before and we didn't have any problems this job please read the bisp as we did and you'll see there is disclaimer of accuracy of the plans because they can't predict what will be under the soil simply stated you asked for two types of licenses and of those two you got zero you got a marine contractor licens and they can do certain things for sure and they can build the carpentry for the walk over and they can put the post the around for the walkover but they cannot do utility work nor can they subcontract utility work so I don't know how to say it any more than clearly than that there's a material nonconformance in this response and when there is a material non-conformance your duty as the seaw wall between the public its money and the work going on is to instead give the job to the lowest responsible responsive bidder or reject all bids and Reid it the case law is very clear you have one of those two choices a choice is not to say well we're going to pull the covers over our head and hope it is okay so that's what I have to say and I see I'm out of time thank you thank you Mr Lan any other questions or comments from councel Mr waren I'm sorry the portion that he just brought up do we have that option to reject all this if I may we always put in our in our procurement our solicitations our ation for bids that city council uh reserves the right to reject all bids uh Mr Flores did I state that correctly direct director Baron um these are when these I just asked that just as a point of procedure um so these were last replaced I want to say maybe 10 years ago prior to that or maybe the ones that we're replacing now is that correct I don't yet I don't know the exact dates on when they were constructed they were um constructed at a a height that allowed the Dune to take them over previously um and then like I said we've been making a recommendation and systematically replacing them across the board to get them all 49 replaced um while we're only talking about 20 right now 13 this year uh and seven next year it is 20 of our 49 that we have this is also the last 20 of our 49 so at the conclusion of this would have them all re reworked and and hopefully to a new height that won't be taken over at least the majority of them won't be taken over by the doom and has there been any contact any ground under underground utility interference or anything like that is anybody come across that that you're aware of um I mean we are aware that there are some uh InterContinental telephone cables that come on Shore uh we know where those are at we also know where our outfall structures are so the stormm water outfall structures that go from the end zones out to the beach themselves most of them are already denoted on the prints as to where uh they are we avoid construction on top of those obviously for maintenance purposes so uh We've engineered from the beginning to be away from those things that could be in the way thank you Mr ragner um just for my clarification if I recall reading correctly we only have there's a window of time available for construction of these to occur right it's outside of the our Turtle nesting season is that that that is correct um subsurface work has to be done during non- Turtle season non turtle season started November 1st it usually runs for approximately 6 months which puts us right near the end of May um to be able to for the June 1st start of turtle season again at that point in time they can continue subsurface work every day they have to meet with the Beach's Turtle Patrol to get their area cleared and everything they're going when they're going on and off the beach to make sure there's no impact to Turtles uh with the blessing they can continue to do subsurface work as long as the turtle Patrol clears and they have to clear every single day of every single workday so um this does shorten our construction time since we're already at the end of December um to to where this this could impact the the the feasibility of getting the construction completed within the time frame that was thank you for that the end there that's the point I was trying to understand is so if we were to to negate all of these and do the process over again we also probably before going the ability to accomplish much 2025 correct that is 100% correct if we if we reject all bids we would have to start the process over it's about four months by the time we get to an award again we would be right in the middle of turtle season and you wouldn't be able to do anything anyway so any subsequent rebid and read advertisement we would have to push to a 26/27 award or all 26 and then push for 2020 all all the 20 that are left to be done in 2026 at one time rather than splitting them like we did we split them like we did systematically uh to make this a little longer because of the delay of getting this on the field to be able to get this done so we could try to get two batches done one this year and one next year Golding uh Mr Baron I'm looking at uh exhibit G that's in our packet and it's uh section 010000 project requirements and this appears to be I guess is that part of the part of our requirements for the project so I I might have to defer to Mr flor's on this because a lot of our spec packets are regurgitated from uh previous Awards and previous done so I know there's a certain amount of that material that is standard put in every contract so I don't know if I want to speak to particular sections I don't know if you'd have a better knowledge of that or not as to what if there's any particular sections you're referring to or yeah so uh under one one description B work includes number seven the contractor is responsible for managing all utility coordination in including but not limited to the following ensuring that all utility coordination and activities are conducted in accordance with the requirements of the contract documents um and then in section c under public utility installations and structures there's reference to the contractor shall protect all public utility installations and structures from damage and um all public utilities damaged by the contractor shall be repaired by the contractor at his expense so most of that was all provided by forw Waters as part of our bid process um for that particular information um some of that's not exactly accurate because if they damage a telephone cable it's not going to be on them to repair it although it would be on them to pay the bill for whoever does do the repair um which would be the same thing in essence they would be covering the cost of those repairs so um Mr Lane's point about the fact that a specialty Marine contractor cannot contract out utility work is that is that true I can't I mean I got to go by what the City attorney read earlier when he talked about what work they specifically can and can't do by the legislature I don't have the technical knowledge on that question I didn't see that question addressed that specifically other than um the the contention that that is the case in the um big protest package well my concern is this that if this is if the things I just read are in the Pro in our project requirements and the um bidder is not able to subcontract out the work then we have a problem I would think so if I if I may interject from from a legal perspective I'm speaking legally um you just you just brought up a a very rational argument what I'm not sure is in the record that's for you all to determine if it's in the record me is we've had assertions of that but I don't know of anything in in the record any documents or other proof that that work cannot be subcontracted out by that type of specialty contractor is am I conveying that clearly Mr Lane do you have proof of that we can provide that approach podium if you turn to page three of our appeal we address this issue um under chapter 489 which which governs lure of contractors in the State of Florida they Define what a specialty contractor is and I'll just read that specialty contractor quote means the contractor whose sto of work and responsibility is limited to a particular phase of construction established in a category adopted by board Rule and whose scope is limited to a subset of the activities described in one of the paragraphs of this subsection in short it's a specialty license a general contractor license by contrast is unlimited to what work they may be able to do or subcontract whereas a specialty Contractor License is limited to the description that was read earlier by Mr M therefore a marine specialty contractor if a utility does come up or an issue does come up which is expressly required in the contract documents that Marine specialty contractor is actually not licensed to contract to do that work or to contract for that work which is illegal in the state of Florida the contract documents contemplate that these things may come up in paragraph 2 of form 010000 -2 of the bid document it says quote these data are not guaranteed as to their completeness or accuracy and it is the responsibility of the contractor to make his own investigation to inform himself fully of the character condition and extent of all in such installations and structures as may be encountered and as may affect the construction operations so our contention is simply what what if something happens what if there's a de activization that has to happen furthermore in paragraph 5 in the middle of the paragraph it actually says where public U I'll start from the beginning where public utility installations of structures owned or controlled by the city or other governmental body are encountered during the course of the work and are not indicated on the drawings or in the specifications and when in the opinion of the engineer removal relocation replacement or rebuilding is necessary to complete the work under this contract such work shall be accomplished by the utility having jurisdiction or such work may be ordered in writing by the engineer for the contractor to accomplish so if that happens on this job now the Marine specialty contractor who's been awarded the contract can't even do the work and if they do they violate Florida law that's the problem and I'll just restate this is our second ground in the appeal don't overlook our first ground which was that the lowest responsive the lowest bidder here was not responsive you have to fly by instruments you can't ask after the fact well are there Utilities in the ground it doesn't matter what matters is at the time the contractors bid on this job they reviewed the documents that were provided you may have deterred other contractors that were only Marine specialty contractor licensed because they saw two blanks general contractor and underground utility contractor they may not have bid on this job because they thought they couldn't that is the definition of deterring competition and that's against Florida common law that is one ground one specific ground that you must actually deny today for this you must grant our appeal for the second ground is that even if you could even if you had another blank for marine specialty Contractor License they couldn't even do the work and they can't subcontract for the work both are issues and our appeals should be granted for those reasons Mr Baron and followup to um one of the sections that he read it sounds like it it we have the option for the city to address the utility conflict is that correct so Florida law requires prior to any digging you have to notify 811 Sunshine which is the location of those utilities every contractor doesn't matter whether they're a marine contractor general contractor utility contractor is required to call 811 to have utilities located that doesn't require anybody anything special to do while coordination of that work that might need to be done might need to have that other license that that they're referring to we're not aware of anything where this is this project is going to get into any subsurface utilities uh Beaches Energy of course uh is in control of um the electric in our area which is a City utility um too is in charge of our gas which is also a branch of part of our City utility in the event of phone line or cable TV or something else was damaged it would be on that utility to do a repair um the plans clearly call for all storm water uh apperences to be out of the facility of our digging so we're we don't have the expectation that there is any utility coordination required for this project okay thank you Mr horn but based on that it's still says on the form that we talk specially about utilities if we were to reject all this and restart this process which I don't want to do because our citizens have waited long enough for these over passes to be build these walkovers would the next request for proposal being worded so so would it have these words attached to it all I can say is I would go back to our engineering firm and we would have a a meeting post this meeting to have that discussion and determine whether they feel it was improper or wrong or whether they want to change anything by all means we wouldn't ship the same information out again we would have some clearance made um a lot of this does defer liability away from the city because while we're funding this project we're not directly responsible and what it truly comes down to is the damager of that facility is responsible for the damages they do just like when any other contractor goes through a sewer line they're responsible for making that repair City utility but they're responsible for that because they broke it they cut it um so that would be a similar we would be looking for a similar response or some clarification language in there um the other thing was is I don't think we received any agenda asking any of this information where it may have been asked in the past me an up down vote Yes I guess my understanding uh Mr M the appeal process one way or the other The Next Step would be to approve the award did and my concern is I I just to me me personally is not very very clear currently I don't necessarily know if I feel comfortable um either direction um and go back to the drawing for May what our St but what would happen how procedurally does that occur so our bit protest policy is is vague on this so here's how I see the potential options to tonight um the bid protester is requesting that you grant their appeal and they're also asking you to award the project to them um here are just some of the options I want to say these are the only options and I'm gladly answer any questions are clarify it's this board's decision I make it's not my decision to make uh you can approve their bid protest and also on the next agenda item award the bid to them you could award excuse me approve the bid protest choose to reject all bids and re advertise you could deny their bid protest and on the next agenda item award the contract to the current low bidder or you could deny their protest and then on the next agenda item decide to reject all B and re advertise so I think all those options are on the table based on the the posture that we're in right now okay thank you Mr Wagner I'm sorry the I think my question may have been answered so thank you s any other questions did you Mr I did have a second part so it it sounds to me like the the risk of the concern physically occurring there instruction is somewhat manageable and may not be as may not be super high based on the what we're hearing folks share with us um but does that offset and I believe it's Mr Lane yes sir some of Mr Lane's assertions around um kind of some of the absoluteness that he was sharing around what would be illegal or illegal for us to approve and so the there's not much project risk it sounds like as well sh in my words but I just want to make sure that the risk of you sharing is I want to understand that and I think that so if I may respond I think if you disapprove or deny the appeal I think you are necessarily determining that the other bit the other bit is responsive and what's the other r responsive and responsible responsive and responsible that that that that it meets the requirements of the procurement uh solicitation invitation for B so I don't think if if if if you find that their arguments have Merit that their license the other entity's license is not sufficient then you probably should not disapprove or deny the bid but if if you determine it's it's not it's about legalities not convenience if you determine from everything you've heard that you don't see an issue in this instance that based on all the evidence before you that that it is respon the other bit is responsive and responsible that may be a reason to deny and I want to stop there because I I don't want to you construe that I'm recommending either path I was just going to some of the con contingencies or um possible permutations that could go on thank you thank you for that D Miss Golding Mr bar you said that if the contractor or if whoever is doing the work causes the damage they're responsible for the repair as long as they've done their due diligence to call 811 make sure it was located there there's other rules that are that go along with that um obviously it was mismarked or not marked ever that would change who would be the responsible party for the repair um obviously it's never marked um that would go on to whoever own the utility for not following the rules of 811 Sunshine Law to make sure that their utilities are located prior to excavation so that would shift that responsibility um for the 811 rule to the actual owner of the facility for not locating it if that makes sense okay thank you any other questions or comments from Council Mr Lan's associate what was your name Brandon Jose Jose thank you Mr Jose you you brought up some good points for me and I just wanted to Denis we sat down too quickly I just want to up and down for I can do this all night because there's two different conversations here and one is does does the selected uh contractor do we think they're going to be able to do the job even though it's not exactly what we asked for in the in the bid package but it's the bid package that's the problem and I want to know why we had two things that we asked for in the RFP that we have decided we don't really need because the money difference is not that great to me so what was the thought process if you even want to or can share that on why did we decide to compromise on those two things that when we put out the RFP we thought were important enough to be in there so officially once the bid specs come to us for review We review them in their entirety from the engineering firm and then we you know go ahead and and let Mr Flores know we're ready for advertisement um so the answer is to if it was in there not in there whether we thought it should remain or not remain of course wasn't apparent until the subsequent contestment of the bid um so I guess the answer as to why it was there I would have to defer back to Michael to come back up and see if he has any answers to um like I said this is the second or third set that we've done I think this is the third set we've well this will be the fourth set we've done but um this will be the third set that's under four Waters um four Waters uh prior to four Waters doing our Dune walkovers ATM construction was doing our Dune walkovers when they were our continuous contractor um since they no longer have a local office they are no longer doing that work however they are doing it for four Waters under the four Waters umbrella for them as a continuous Consulting contractor so it's the same stuff that we've been using over and over and over for every one of so I don't know Michael if you have any more to add based on that sure come on up so the the bid instructions state that um a a contractor's license is required for covering op operations of the project doesn't specifically say uh General Contractor License or utility license it does have that in the bid form which is the standard bid form um that the city uses so we thought it was acceptable that they put in a marine contractor's license because that's what it states in the bid instructions doesn't specifically say You must have a you general contractor's license or util any other questions from Council Mr City attorney I just wanted to remind you what the motion that's currently on the table because we've had a lot of discussion so the current motion is to disapprove the appeal of bid protest for bid 24251 for the construction of 20 Dune walkovers a yes vote on this motion when it's called would be in favor of disapproving the appeal so it's just normally a lot of our motions are affirmative in nature this one a yes vote would be to to deny because that's the motion currently on the table just wanted to clarify that so everyone remembers where we're at procedural thank you madam CL roll call council member Goldie no council member horn no council member Json yes council member suon no council member Wagner no council member Wilders no mayor Hoffman no motion fails so the council is free to right now we have a motion that has not been approved so I I would say that legally this item is still before you based on the most recent vote it probably would be prudent to uh make a motion to the suggested motion if that was the case is motion to approve the appeal of bid protest for bid 24251 for the construction of 202 work walkovers and and let me clarify if that's a motion that is made that's just that their their appeal you found it legally sufficient or had had Merit and then I I would recommend it's up to you to do whatever you want but the next agenda item immediately after this involves the actual Award of the bid where you can have further discussion what you want to do specifically but I think we need another motion uh based on your last vote is probably to approve the appeal of the bid protest but of course city council can do whatever you please thank you I make a motion to approve the bid appeal you want to read you want to read this actually so that you've got it on yeah I want to make a motion to approve the bid appeal a bid protest for bid number 24251 for the construction of 20 dun walkovers second we have a motion and a second Mr horn and again just making sure that that this does not reflexively commit us to accepting their bid not with the motion as currently round to any discuss any discussion on the current motion Mr robers uh councelor does this mean that subsequent to however this vote goes we can still make a motion to reject all bids that is something you could potentially do on the very next very next agenda item let make sure I have the right uh agenda Item B is for you know to award the bid or you could choose to to a certain company or you all could choose to re all bids if that's what we want to do so the that was a long way of saying yes any other questions or comments from Council Madam clerk rall council member horn yes council member jamson yes council member Sutton yes council member Wagner yes council member Wilders yes council member Golding yes mayor Hoffman yes motion carries the appeal of the bid protest is approved now Item B we have to decide what we want to do next can the recap of the options are to award it to the second bidder or to reject all bids if I may by your last action it sounds as if you did find that there was Merit to their argument that the other bid uh had some issues so yes I think you could choose to award the bid to I want make sure the right company named construction Cod you could choose to reject all bids you could have a discussion there might be other options on the table but all those are all those are possible right now we hear from the city manager or the Public Works director on their thoughts on advising the Council on how to proceed um I'm not sure exactly how I would suggest we proceed um I know it's not a lot of dollar difference between the first and second bidder approximately $60,000 um the only concern I have is is is because we've moved this from the last agenda and we're looking at this one if we choose not to award we will probably not go out to bid again until late summer to try to pull this together for an award in October for next construction cycle so we we would lose our fiscal year 2025 construction of the 13 they would be pushed to 2026 and then I would have to meet with Finance to determine at that point in time whether we're interested in doing them part of them in 26 and then part of them in 27 or now that All the Monies together in 26 whether we would just want to push out one packet to say award all 20 in 2026 um but knowing that uh the subsurface construction time frame um you know no matter what even everybody works together with the holidays uh to to get a a PO and a notice to proceed in front of either contractor at this point in time is probably going to be the end of this FIS the end of this calendar year before we can actually get that in front of them even if we are all here and can get it all done it's going to take a lot to get that moving to where we can give the go sign keep in mind either contractor has not ordered any materials they haven't ordered any Lumber they haven't begun any of the work they need to do to be able to begin construction so um the longer that process takes the more it cuts into the non- turtle season construction time frame um our contract is pretty specific on trying to do 13 in the first year and trying to do it during that six-month Turtle season non- Turtle season um it could be very impactful to Turtles as well as the the beach Patrol for having the sea turtle Patrol for having to clear a site if they continue on beyond that uh Turtle season restart so I I can say yes or no until we proceed ahead if you uh say award to the second bidder to construct obviously um you know we're going to work diligently to cut our Po and then get in front of them for a conversation because they might look at us and say look I can't I can't get materials until February we're not even going to be able to do this in February or March or April and I don't know what they're going to say until we can get in front of them to see what they have so um that would be the case with either it it's going to be the case either way unless we reject all bids no matter which one of the two that get it awarded yes ma'am Miss Golding so I'm looking at the um the sheet that has the three V the three vendors on it uh from the review I guess the the Public Works response summary um all three of these are considered responsive and responsible Fitters yes that review was done by four Waters and they concurred with our in house review that they were all in our opinion as responsible and responsive BS um of course the legality of whether that is true or not is is what the appellant has has made his case for uh his claim so that would simply that's that's what you just affirmed to so um that point this is on you to decide if they're responsive or responsible or whether you want to award to want or another or needed but based on the information provided it seems that any any of these three could if they were responsive and responsible could be awarded the bid provided they were the lowest bidder is that correct that would be correct okay all that happened outside of the contestment the contestment came after we made the decision to award uh primarily based because all of them were equal as far as responsible and responsive so then we deferred back to the lowest bidder which was um cnh Marine um like I said the contestment now changes that so now we're talking about construct as the number two bidder um technically either being primary um or to you know to be declared um you know to to declare all bids you know out and start over well given the fact that that all three of these were considered responsive and responsible and we meaning that we were prepared to move forward with any of these that were considered the lowest bidder it seems to me that the thing to do would be to move to construct Co um to award the bid to them because they're the next lowest responsible and responsive bidder I I would say that's a correct statement okay I'd be willing to make that motion but I'm willing to uh defer to any further discussion let me get the other two lights uh Mr Wagner so YK so U my initial question is going to be do we have opportunities in the way we structure if we were to rebid this structure the amount of work so we may be able to make some progress in 2025 versus 2026 in other words the bulk of the work today is in 2025 there's less less walkovers in 2026 if we were to rebid the process could we still like Target making some uh so so so the logistics for that would be I would work with Mr Flores and work with our contractor to put together the bid packet again to fix whatever deficiency we would declare we could put that back out on the street they advertise on Wednesday so if you know what this Wednesday is which is two days from now that's not going to happen because if Mr Flores doesn't have a few days to review it's not going to happen next Wednesday is going to be in the middle of Christmas the following Wednesday is going to be in the middle of the new year so in essence we would be pushing to the First full week in January to be able to begin it would have to be on the street a minimum of 30 days uh for the bid so that's going to run for the entire month of January into February at that point in time I would be putting it back on the council agenda which you guys would see in March so when you would be making that approval in March you would in essence be giving a contractor the month of March April and potentially May to complete all the work whatever we whatever we predisposed is the amount of work to do asked if there was a if if it was possible to shorten the amount of BR or walkovers that were being asked to be built and then that 3mon window accomplish on maybe um I don't know that we would want to do the work twice if that makes sense because we'd have to go back and rewrite this bid packet and either look at splitting them differently which they were split fairly specific for financial impact Reasons I'm not sure I'm not sure we would recommend somebody trying to do two or three this year and then hold the remainder till next year Under A hurried circumstance I think we would be better to do our due diligence rewrite the spec package and then reput it out properly one time talk short the spec package of that process it was just purely the number of crossover right but the minute we change that we have to go back and rewrite the entire specs because it's all written as doing 13 and 25 and 7 and 26 so from the very beginning all that information would have to be changed and we would have to pick a number whatever that would be say you do four this year and the remainder 16 next year all that would have to be Rewritten and then we could begin the process of advertisement so I think that calendar doesn't change yes we might be able to do it we might be able to get two or three done might be able to get five or six I you know I was amazed the contractor last year got all 17 done within the construction cycle they were up against the fence for the turtle not off the table it's not off the table but it probably won't be recommended by Public Works to proceed in that fashion we will probably just wait and do it in the fall are you finished yeah okay sorry I was debating whether I was okay that's what I was picking up on there Mr city manager thank you one of the things I wanted to point out to councel and I believe it was Mr Lane who brought it up was the fact that if there was confusion or a misinterpretation by people who viewed this bid they may not have bid on this project because of the language that they saw requiring the contractor's license for a secondary license for utilities um the fact that we sent it out to 19 vendors and only got three um you know raises a question of why we didn't get more uh clearly this would raise a question of if the licensing was a Prohibition on biders submitting on this uh project perhaps it may be best to have us regroup put together the appropriate contract documents specifically looking for the types of Licensing that we're looking for on this project and put it back out on the street with the hopes of a better response even if it means potentially doubling up the work for 2026 and having them knock out all 20 within one particular year except for the fact that we did have a bidder that met the requirements as we stated them that was his point point was that there might have been others who only had a a u Marine contractor's license that wouldn't have bid which that would really only have been an issue if we did aord it to cnh Marine if we had done that then yes everybody else out there who only has a marine contractor's license should rightfully be upset with us about that but if we are awarding it to someone who had everything that we asked for they were the ones who took the time to put in The Proposal Mr horn um C to address a couple of the things I was thinking it was just my concern we've already noted some deficiencies yes we have a responsible and responsive bit theoretically we have several um but responsive bids to a poorly worded RFP and that's my concern is awarding um this to anybody if if we don't know if we haven't we haven't told people what we want we don't based on the wording here I'm not 100% sure um I'm trying to trying to think of a way to phrase this um you know we can go out call 811 I'll got a weekend off I'll go out there you know check these spots if you want me to I'll take them a little notebook and write them down um you know we just need to make sure that the citizens are getting what because if we verify that there are zero underground utilities then we get different bids based on um the appropriately worded RFP um and the citizens get what they needed hopefully financially you know to their best interest just my thoughts Mr ston uh I agree with Mr horn I agree with Mr stopulos um this is on us and um the the ambiguity in this RFP uh is disappointing and I'm not comfortable moving forward um you know with Award of this to anybody so I I'd make a motion that we um reject all bids for RFP 2425 g01 second second we have a motion by Mr Su a second by everybody else that we reject all bids and rebid the project um Miss golden did you have a comment on that motion well I had a comment that I was going to make before the motion but this applies still um Mr Baron the contractor that did the Dune Walkers Dune walkovers in the previous year was this the same RFP that we issued for that project so um def deferring to four Waters in the in the rear who shook his head yes it's the it's the same um R it's the same bid that we sent forward so this is not an RFP but it is a bid packet that we put together um I just wanted to correct it because RFP is treated differently than a bid packet I'm sure Mr Flor is is freaking out over here CU we're using them interchangeably they are not the same um but anyway yes this was the same FID package that we had used last time and did we have any issues with the contractor and the the construction of the dun walkovers and any misunderstandings or or misinformation or anything like that based on the way that the B package was worded so I'm going to answer that with yes the reasoning is is because we had several change orders that were listed on the last one and a lot of that comes up as confusion um afterwards in in the aspects that we had awarded this and then all of a sudden they say wait a minute we don't see this is a number or that's a number or something's not included there was a question brought up on the last set that was done uh concerning hand rail placement we were in our bid packet I believe we stated that all elevated slopes uh were required to have handrails um so in our thought and and same thing with forw water's thought was anything that was a ramp would have handles and and be included as part of that the bidder came back to us saying that that wasn't really clear in the bid package after the fact so then they um put together a packet to say We believe We misquoted the project because we didn't assume all of these elevated ramps needed hand handrails and so when we reviewed our packet we said it was unclear there wasn't it wasn't anything definitive either direction so we agreed to their um to their change order for that project so was there confusion yes that's why we have this process that's why we do contingency as well onto our projects is to allow us that flexibility to figure it out um you know in the event we find something that was unexpected uh we find granite Boulders underneath all the sand that happens we can't guarantee we tell them they need to put in a post and it needs to be 8T deep when they get to 7 and 1/2 ft and it stops because it hits a boulder they have to come up with a plan to excavate that Boulder out of the way to be able to get that extra half a foot we can't just say nope we're sorry we're going to let you have that one at 7 and 1/2 we make them do the proper thing which is requirement says it has to be 8ot so there are things like that that went with it um there was some other clarifying stuff in the agenda but there was nothing that was beyond anything that was covered throughout a change order process and so those those clarifications were Incorporated in this bid packet that was sent out then yes okay so my feeling is this that again we had three responsive and responsible biders and um I don't believe that we have a need to delay moving forward with the walkover construction and awarding the bid to the second responsible and responsive bidder so I will not support rejecting all the bids thank you thank you Miss golden did you turn your light off did you have something sorry I would just uh for City 's benefit you retain the right to reject all bids but it can't be arbitrary so even though there's been adequate instruction I might recommend amending the motion along the lines of rejecting all bids because the specifications for the contract were inadequate or ambiguous or something along those lines it's it's up to you I just think that might be a better motion all right I'll I'll offer a amended motion that we reject all bids for bid number 2425 01 based on the um specifications yeah inadequate and inconsistent specifications second second we have a motion a second to amend the original motion is there any discussion on the amendment Madam clerk roll call this is just on the amendment of The Language not the original motion sorry go ahead council member Jansen yes council member Sutton yes council member Wagner yes council member wers yes council member Golding yes council member horn yes mayor Hoffman yes Amendment passes okay back to the original motion to reject all bids um based on the specifications I don't want to try to restate Mr Sutton's Amendment but you guys know what it was is there any other discussion on on um that original amendment I mean I'm sorry on the original motion as amended Madam for roll call council member Sutton yes council member Wagner yes council member wers yes council member Golding no council member horn yes council member Johnson yes mayor Hoffman no motion carries Mr Baron um a lot of people have put a lot of time and effort into this and there's a couple of companies that were expecting to have um some resolution to this today and I'm sorry that we don't have that um but this further highlights the challenges that we are having in our own um purchas purchasing policies and procedures that this Council has taken a particular interest in um remedying and I think that again this is going to be a a really time consuming um opportunity to do some of that so unfortunately we don't have our resolution today but we look look forward to the next bid package to come thank you Mr Baron thank you Mr Flores um Miss gossip for your work on this give everybody a minute out anybody on Council me us for break okay we're going to take a 5 minute break until uh 7:30 whatever five minutes from for for for for I around e and 7:30 let's take our seats and move on to meeting did you turn it up7 is that just a fake thermostat though it would not okay so moving on we have a number are you guys ready um moving on we are at the time of year where we do our board appoint your light St Mr we do our board appointments in an effort to try to keep the terms um consistent with the end of the year so we will take it one board at a time and see how it goes um we'll start with the board of adjustment it's laid out there as motions but of course they're just suggested motions if we have um something else we want to do there um Mr Mayor Pro would you like to make the first motion sure I move we approve the reappointment of Jennifer Williams to a new four-year regular member term on the board of adjustments boa expiring December 31st 2028 second we have a motion and a second any discussion on approving uh Miss Williams to her next for Mr wers yes I would like to say that I've attended many Board of adjustment meetings and um I believe it's 43628 where a V where they are Grant deciding whether to Grant variances and um the the code specifically states that in order to Grant a variance there must be something peculiar to the piece of land not caused by the person seeking the variance and I have seen a number of variances granted from as best as I could tell the hardship that they're that they're stating is caused by the uh scope of the development of the building they want to put on the property they just don't want to abide by the property lines as they should be they want to build out 5 ft from the sides and as close to the street in the alley as they can and I think we should the LDC should Implement our vision plan and so I hope we'll think closely about who we reappoint thank you thank you Mr wers any other comments Madame clerk roll call council member Wagner yes council member wers no council member Golding yes council member horn yes council member Johnson yes council member Sutton yes mayor Hoffman yes motion carries item two I move we approve the appointment of Matt Mets to fill the remainder of the unexpired regular member seat on the board of adjustments with a term exporation of December 31st 2025 second we have a motion in a second so this is not a new appointment or renewal this would just move um Mr Mets up into the regular member seat any uh questions comments concerns Madam CL call council member wers no council member Golding yes council member horn yes council member Johnson yes council member Sutton yes council member Wagner yes may H yes uh item three I move we approve the appointment of LA attorney Tierney to fill the remainder of the unexpired first alternate seat on the board of adjustments for the term expiration of December 31st 2025 second we have a motion and a second any discussion Madam clerk roll call council member Golding yes council member horn yes council member Janson yes council member Sutton yes council member Wagner yes council member wers no mayor Hoffman yes and the fourth item is to nominate a new member that would take the place of second alternate uh Miss golden you have your light on I'd like to nominate Douglas D can you make it in the form of a motion yes I nominate Douglas D I move that we sorry okay it's written out here as nominate so I move that we nominate Douglas D to the second alternate to fill the Remain the second alternate position to fill the remainder of the unexpired second alternate seat on the board of adjustment with a term expiration of December 31st 2025 do we have a second we have a motion on dougl Della and no second seea motion fails Mr suton I'd like to make a motion uh that we nominate Sydney talot uh to fill the second alternate seat on the board of adjustment um with a term expiration of December 31st 2025 second we have a motion and a second to uh put Miss Sydney Talcott on the board of adjustment Miss Golding um I just wanted to uh I mean we haven't had any discussion but um tonight but we previously had some discussion about dudl D and his his his uh appropriateness for the board of adjustment and Miss talot for the CRA um so my thinking was that that we would appoint Mr Dell and put Miss talot on the CRA so that's what I would like to support tonight that I completely agree wholeheartedly I thought Miss toot was very well suited for the CRA and um and Mr Dell correspondingly to the board of adjustments so I I agree with you and I the consensus that we had coming out of the um briefing where we went over this uh but there is a motion in a second on the table to put Miss Talcott on the board of adjustment which would take her off the list of eligibility for the CRA any other comments or questions Madam clerk roll call council member horn yes council member Johnson yes council member Sutton yes council member Wagner yes council member wers yes council member Golding no mayor Hoffman no Miss toot please do not take that as a comment on thought we had we had another spot for you um but thank you for your willingness to serve and we will be following up with you on information about the board of adjustment going forward okay moving on to to uh the Planning Commission uh item one would be the reappointment of Justin lurman can we have a motion please I move we approve the reappointment of Justin lman to a four-year regular member term on the Planning Commission PC expiring December 31st 2028 we have a motion do we have a second second is there any discussion Miss Golding um I would just say that um Mr lman has served the Planning Commission for several years now but um based on uh recent issues that have that have occurred um I would support not reappointing Mr lman to the Planning Commission and that is how I will be be voting tonight thank you any other comments M CL Pro call council member Janson yes council member Sutton yes council member Wagner no council member wers no council member Golding no council member horn no mayor Hoffman no Mr lman is not reappointed to the board um so now we will have the reappointment of Justin Henderson can I have a motion I move we approve the appointment of Justin Henderson to a four-year regular member term on the P the Planning Commission beginning January 1st 2025 and 25 and expiring December 31st 2028 second we have a motion and a second any discussion Madam for R call council member Sutton yes council member Wagner yes council member Wilders yes council member golden yes council member horn yes council member jamson yes mayor Hoffman yes thank you Mr Henderson for your service to the Planning Commission okay so we are now at reappointment of Debbie Cole as the first alternate but potentially she could be moved up to a regular seat since we have the vacancy created by Mr lurman I'm sorry mad you have your light on that was going to be my comment she's I would St would recommend to move her and see the first time I've ever been one step ahead of the clerk put it in the minutes I know I see it schol I just had to brag on myself for a minute jeez s Miss gold I move that we move um Debbie Cole to the to appoint her to a 4-year regular member term on the Planning Commission uh oh expiring December 3 31st 2028 second we have a motion on a second any discussion Madam clerk roll call council member Wagner yes council member wers yes council member Golding yes council member horn yes council member Johnson yes council member Sutton yes mayor Hoffman yes thank you Miss Cole for your service to the Planning Commission so now we have the first alternate and the second alternate position that are open um would anyone like oh miss golden you have a motion for the first alternate I move that we appoint Dean hadock to the first alternate position um for a 4-year term beginning January 1st 25 and expiring December 31st 2028 we have a motion in a second to appoint Dean hadock as the first alternate is there any discussion Madam cler roll call council member Wilders yes council member Golding yes council member horn yes council member Janson yes council member Sutton yes council member Wagner yes mayor Hoffman yes thank you Mr hadock we look forward to having you join the Planning Commission and now for the second alternate is folding I move that we appoint Matthew fer to the second alternate position to fill is that right would he fill the remainder of the unexpired okay unexpired second alternate seat on the Planning Commission with a term expiration of December 31st 2027 leave a motion do we have a second second we have a motion and a second for Matthew fer in the position of second alternate is there any discussion Madam cler protoc call council member Golding yes council member horn yes council member johnon yes council member Sutton yes council member Wagner yes council member wers yes mayor Hoffman yes thank you Mr fer for your willingness to serve and for becoming our second alternate now the fun one so we are going to work on the um membership of the CRA before we go to the chairmanship of the CRA so we'll start with that and I would like to add one caveat um I spoke with Mrs pavloski um a while ago when I realized uh that we were going to be losing our longtime member and chair from this committee and asked her to reup for another four years despite the fact that she had stated she did not want to or wasn't planning on serving another term um she has expressed that she's extremely flexible and wants to um participate in si as much or as little as this Council would like for her to so I don't if we decide to um she was also very complimentary of where the CRA is at this moment and the institutional knowledge that is now being carried uh in large part by the staff person that we've added to the CRA with Taylor mob so she feels very good about the place that the CRA is in and willing again to do as much or as little as we would like for her to do as a member of the C so we we have currently um one renewal to consider which is Francis and then two vacancies to fill and possibly three vacancies if we decide not to renew um francis's term uh so to start with her would somebody make a motion I'll make a motion that we approve the reappointment of Francis pavloski to a new four-year regular member term on the community redevelopment agency CRA expiring December 31st 2028 we have a motion is there a second to reappoint Francis I second the motion we have a motion and a second Mr Jansen my only concern is I brought it up at the briefing was the was Mrs P's attendance um missing as many meetings as she did and now um consideration of being a regular board member Still Still resonates With Me Miss Golding um I mentioned this in the briefing I do have significant concerns with Miss P's attendance in the past two years um you know I understand the concern with uh institutional knowledge but do appreciate the fact that she recognizes that there is institutional knowledge with the staff that we have so I do not support reappointing Miss polosi and would like to appoint someone new because I think it's valuable to get some new and fresh ideas um on the CRA I and again I did speak with her about the concern regarding attendance and she expressed that with some atttention had been kind of sitting out a little more to give the new Al the newly formed alternates an opportunity to participate a little bit further um she certainly doesn't want her 12 years of serving 10 years of serving on this board to be dis merged by something like attendance issues because that she has certainly been a very active member of this board but I would instead of um voting to remove her I would ask that we just withdraw the motion uh and just not take that up can we do that and just not revie her since her term is up would you mind doing that Mr Jansen run that by me one more time I would WR instead of voting to remove to not to remove her I would rather just not vote and then just let her term expire okay I withdraw the motion and we'll just let her term expire at December 31st 2028 second does that work for you to vote on her just be withdraw as long as we just need whoever seconded the original motion to Second the withdraw I second the withdraw thank you okay thank you for um being amable to that so now we will move on to uh reappointment of Mr Whittington through the chair um so not voting on that means she is not being re term is expired okay thank you thank you Miss golden I'd like to move that we move Mr Ron Whittington up from the first alternate position into the member position no he's not he's he's first alternate and can you add for for a fouryear regular member term on the CRA beginning January 1st 2025 expiring December 31st 2028 we have a motion in a bunch of seconds to move Mr Woodington from uh first alternate to regular member of the C Mr horn I do how many as Miss bossk's seat is uh expiring there and we have another one as well yes okay makeing sure another full SE I thought I just want thank you and okay sorry we have a motion a second Mr Wagner I apologize for the time to this question's off but I didn't know where to make it so um if somebody's already been appointed to a position can they be brought up for second position as well so let's say somebody got voted into an an alternate on Planning Commission and it turns out now that there's an extra spot on CRA we might might feel that be closer are they are we allowed to bring them up as both or not I know it's awkward I just there so in a general sense there's a dual office holding Prohibition in the Florida Statutes I don't know off the top of my head if it would apply to these two boards I highly suspect it would well no I I think the intention would be let so to further my example let's say one is a second alterate and one is a full member and there's an opportunity because we didn't know there' be a full member here I want to make sure I understand correct someone to be on both the Planning Commission no just leave V off not they would Ser I believe what you're asking I believe what you're asking is if this board has already made an appointment to a previous seat for for an individual to fill a seat and now that you see there's been a shift on this one the person might be better suited to serve on here could you appoint them to this and I think from a sequential perspective David maybe the question to you is do they need to revoke their previous action and remove them from the board they've already been appointed to first and then reconsider appointing them to a separate board seat on a separate board yes I would do it exactly as you just suggested Mr stop and then of course remember that if that does go through then you may have another open seat on plan in this case did we vote on okay uh let's go ahead and vote on um Mr Whittington and then we will come back to you John and see what you're going to do next Madam cler roll call council member Janson yes council member Sutton yes council member Wagner yes council member wers yes council member golden yes council member horn yes mayor Hoffman yes okay a lot of lights are on now I'm GNA um start with Mr suton i' like to make a motion that we appoint Kevin Meyers uh as a regular member of the community redevelopment agency I suppose that would be with a term expiring December 31st 2028 we have a motion to appoint Kevin Myers is there a second second the the expiration would be December 31st 2027 I think okay I'm stre with spreadsheets up here guys this is really situation I said taking a step of the first item okay so this would be a full membership uh in place of um item one Kevin Myers uh full membership on the C uh and we have a second yes second and Mr horn sorry that's my any other questions or comments Madam for a full call council member ston yes council member Wagner yes council member wers yes council member Golding no council member horn yes council member jansson yes mayor h yes okay next item so our regular seats are full now so we are moving on to First alternate no lights are on Miss Golding I move that we appoint um o wait a minute I lost my place the first one that we had discussed at our briefing was well Sydney tallot right right that was that was going to be my motion and I just realized uh nope can't do that well you can if we go back to we just have to be willing to go back to the board of adjustment and again that's why I wanted the City attorney to weigh in because I think before you can appoint to this board you would need to remove from the previous board appointment in does that is there any reason they not just in an abundance of caution I would recommend doing the rication motion first if that's if that's your if that's the pleasure of the board but that's just a recommendation you guys can do it in whatever order you see fit I think it's just cleaner to show that there's not Dual office holding if the revocation happens first and David one followup question uh believe that Miss talcott's previous appointment was unanimous does that mean that any of the council members can make the motion to resend the appointment I think it's a it it's it's a it should have it should have been unanimous because the mayor and I voted against it so does it have to does it have to be someone who voted in the affirmative who makes the motion to reive if it's a motion to reconsider I think it could also just a motion to revoke anyone can make I think that would be legally sufficient as well okay motion to revoke Sydney Hott from the newly appointed uh selection to the board of adjustments second second oh no um this is just what a way to end the year I'm glad you're still sitting there uh any discussion on revoking uh Miss T appointment to the board of adjustment Madam CL full call just a second and we will go back to the board of of adjustment at the end uh should this motion be carried uh council member Wagner yes council member wers yes council member golden yes council member horn yes council member Johnson yes council member Sutton yes mayor Hoffman yes now you're not on any board okay we're going back to First alternate of the community redevelopment agency Miss Golding Sydney talot to the first alternate position to fill the remainder of the unexpired first alternate term on the CRA beginning January 1st 2025 expiring date of December 31st 2027 second second this is the this is right about when we start to get a little Punchy um we have a motion to appoint tomcot to uh first alternate of the C hopefully you'll get it then you're on then you're on no boards um Madam roll call council member golden yes council member horn yes council member jansson yes council member Sutton yes council member Wagner yes council member wers yes mayor Hoffman yes motion carries congratulations M we landed the plane so far and now uh appointment for for the second alternate Miss Golding I move that we approve Mr Matthew Roberts for the second alternate to fill the remainder of the unexpired second alternate term on the CRA with the term expiring date of December 31st 2026 do we have a second seeing no second motion fails with anyone else Mr Json I make a uh nomination of Karen doy to fill the remainder of the unexpired second alterate term on the CRA with the term expiring date of December 31st 2026 we have a motion for Karen dhy as our second seeing none motion fails back to miss Golding I I just I wanted to make a comment please um because I I looked at the composition of the CRA and um because we currently have an attorney on the C and and Miss Megan Edwards um I I was not leaning towards appointing Kimberly Law because I would like to see some diversity on the CRA which is why I had uh moved to appoint Matthew Roberts um for the CRA so I just wanted I you know I feel like we need to look at the C board like we would look at a nonprofit board or an A a corporate board and make sure that we are getting some diversity and I would point out that right now we have a member who's an architect and construction project manager a lawyer oil refinery manager former um and downtown property owner a PR consultant and then Mr hadock I guess what whatever he oh wait no he's planning commission sorry oh I'm getting confused okay um who who have appointed now nobody knows so but I would like I would like to say that I'd like to see us get some diversity of background on the CRA which is again why I nominated Matthew Roberts Mr Jansen uh similarly to what M Golding said that's the reason why I nominated the Karen dter she's with uh Summers and doter Architectural firm she's got a background extensive background in architect and engineering so I thought that would be a nice asset to our CRA that was diverse and not like uh it' be a nice eclectic mix for us miss Golding yeah but we already have an architect on the CRA and so and looking at Mr Robert's background he owns a business in Jack Beach um and says he is familiar with residential sing single family home he's is a real developer and a real estate broker which I don't see that we have that um on ourc I would like to um instead of the going back and forth since neither of your nominees were able to get a second and considering the hour and then we still have a couple big issues in front of us um I would like that we proceed without appointing a second alternate and look at a date in January um and let's just really focus in on the list we have an incredible list of very qualified people for this board um but this is exactly why uh we have alternates so I don't think we should be scared of of having a vacancy so I'm going to move us on um from this topic as long as nobody's going to have too much heartburn on that okay now the uh chair and vice chair for the community redevelopment agency what I'm going to do is open up nominations um the way we do kind of with mayor Pro uh for the chair position first and then for the vice chair and we'll once we close the floor for nominations then we'll each go down the line and give our vote Mr horn you had your line on I'd like to nominate Gary payal for the position of chair Mr ragner no already nominated okay are there any other nominations for chair all right well we do not need to do a vote then because he is the only nominee congratulations Mr payow and for vice chair anyone like to nominate for vice chairman col I'd like to nominate dad Mosley to be Vice chair for the SI are there any other nominees for vice chair Mr Sutton uh Ron Wedington we have nominees of bad Mosley and Ron Wedington any others so when uh so we'll close the floor for nominations when uh the clerk call is your name just please state which uh person you would prefer for vice chair Madam clerk will call council member jansson wton council member Sutton wton council member Wagner wton council member wers wton council member Golding Mosley council member horn Mosley mayor Hoffman MOS Mr wington prevails as the vice chair and our board work today and for the year oh Mr City attorney two things really quick um I I would I would recommend even though we just did votes just because all your actions are through motion perhaps a motion it could be one motion to nominate Mr payal as chair and Mr lington as Vice chair I would recommend you do that so it's by motion and then we'll go back to the board of adjustment thank you sorry miss holding flight is on yeah I was just going to say we still need to go back to the he added that okay Mr Jansen if you'll make the motion for the chair and vice chair I make a motion that we nominate Gary pel as the chair for the Community Development agency go ahead and add the vice chair we'll just do it all together and then uh Ron wington is the vice chair for the Community Development agency we have a motion and a second am for a call council member suon yes council member Wagner yes council member wers yes council member Golding yes council member horn yes council member jansson yes mayor Hoffman yes back up to the very beginning Board of adjustment we now have a vacancy um can I have a motion to approve a member to fil head vacancy go ahead Miss so much okay I don't know what the dates are I got to go back but Alex ell is who I want to nominate but where are the dates is and this is this yeah which seat was it that we was it the second Al guess the second alternate was it the second alternate okay did you not want to go back to Douglas Down ooh yes I'm sorry I take that back um I would like to N I make a motion that we nominate Douglas Dell to fill the remainder of the unexpired second alternate seat on the board of adjustment with a term expiration at December 31st 2025 second second we have a motion a second any discussion Madam clerk roll call council member Wagner yes council member wers yes council member Golding yes council member horn yes council member Janson yes council member Stutton yes mayor Hoffman yes congratulations to all of you who made it through that to the council for their deliberations and their hard work at the interview and uh reviewing all of these uh candidates I feel really good about the state of our boards and I look forward to um seeing all of our new appointees get to work so now uh on to the meeting Let's see we are up to ordinance a I think am I right are we there okay this is going to probably be Miss Ireland so did anyone get board appointment bingo I didn't I didn't hear anyone yell bingo so I figured I'd ask um well first your holiday gift from the planning department is the 20 50 comprehensive plan double-sided we're saving trees you guys um this is the second reading of the ordinance as you will recall back in may we uh you voted to transmit the 2050 cop plan to the state for review uh we received no objections or issues from any of the reviewing agencies as you'll see in your memo we've got six technical assistance comments uh from the state plan reviewer and we met with them uh via Zoom uh staff and our consultant to go over their comments and work through what would be an acceptable answer to them so we got through that that they're happy with our response those have either been integrated into the comp plan where appropriate or um our response addressed in the memo so uh with an approval tonight this will uh approve our brand new comprehensive plan that uh we appreciate everyone participating in all the workshops and briefings and to get us where we are um I will note that there is the the version that you were given today is a little different than the one that was posted in the agenda packet for two things one the date on the front is December on this one and the only thing that's different there's no U content difference it's just the pictures and some of the formatting so uh Kim Ley horn went through and and found um at the beginning of all of our elements is is a photograph these are all now local instead of placeholders so just wanted to point that out and I'm here for any questions and our um representatives from kimy horn are here as well thank you Miss Ireland Madam CLK will you read the ordinance by title Please in ordinance of the city of Jackson Beach Florida transmitting proposed amendments to the 2030 comprehensive plan and also transmitting a new map series and data and Analysis to the state of Florida's various agencies for review and comment providing for adoption of set amendments and adopting a 2050 comprehensive plan with visions intents and strategies upon receipt of said comments and completion of the State review process providing directions to the Planning and Development Department providing for purpose and intent providing for conflict establishing severability and providing an effective date thank you madam clerk this ordinance for the amendment to the text of the 2030 Conference of plan is before the council for public hearing and adoption on its second reading under the laws of the State of Florida an ordinance which changes the text of any element of the city's 2030 comprehensive plan is a qu quasi legislative proceeding a quasi legislative proceeding means that governing body is acting in its rul making capacity it is the duty of the council to arrive at sound decisions regarding proposed changes to the text of the adopted 2030 comprehensive plan this includes receiving citizen input regarding any proposed text changes the application has been reviewed by staff and the Planning Commission for consistency with other portions of the comprehensive plan the council may hear from all interested parties in the legislative determination of an amendment to the text of the city's 2030 comprehensive plan the council's decision on a comprehensive plan Amendment applic is based on the criteria set forth in section 34-12 of the Land Development code each member of the council provided a copy of the criteria I now open the public hearing on ordinance number 2024-25 we already had our staff presentation there really isn't an applicant just it's just Heather okay um we do you want to Let's see we do not have any um speaker cards if anybody from the public wishes to speak you can p the podium now would the applicant like to respond to any of those comments no okay public hearing is closed before requesting motion on this ordinance beginning with myself each of the members is requested to indicate for the record of the names of persons and the substance of any expar Communications regarding this are you about to tell me I don't have to read this next Marte disclosures are not required for this item take it all back is there a motion with respect to this ordinance I move that we adopt ordinance number 2024 8214 on the second reading adopting the 2050 comprehensive plan for the city of Jacksonville Beach second before opening the floor for discussions or questions by the council please be reminded that our decision will be based on the criteria set forth in M development code staff reports the recommendation of Planning Commission and public input at all hearings Mr Jon I just want to extend my sincere appreciation to cly horn Mark you and your staff and plan an amazing job uh real thorough and make sure you touch all segments of society and check tville Beach uh I'm proud to see the work that you've done U moving forward and uh thank you any other comments Mana th council member wers yes council member Golding yes council member horn yes council member Johnson yes council member suton yes council member Wagner yes mayor Hoffman yes congratulations and thank you all for your hard work on this item next up Item B we're back up Miss Ireland thank you mayor um this is also a second reading of the ordinance to expand the sidewalk dining program to um keep it a pilot for another 5 years and then expand it to um 2 third fourth fifth and sixth Avenue North between 1 and Second Street I'm happy to entertain any questions thank you Miss Ireland Madam K will you read their ordinance by in ordinance of the city of Jacksonville Beach Florida amending chapter 28 streets sidewalks and other public places by amending section 28-12 expanding a sidewalk dining program in the downtown incentive Zone within the downtown Redevelopment District providing for repeal of conflicting ordinances severability codification and an effective date thank you this ordinance is for for the council for a public hearing and consideration on its second reading I will now open the public hearing on ordinance number 2024-25 we have one speaker card Mr Thad Mosley who I believe we heard from on the first reading of this room as well come on up to the podium state your name Mosley 3701 du all Drive um first reading my comment was quite brief thought about it a lot in conjunction with a lot of the other things yall are doing that we're doing here in Jacks Beach and it's really part of a holistic approach um frust reading good questions some good answers good questions um good presentation I tell them M thanks for what you all do this evening is proof that not easy um but speaking of a holistic approach things that fall out of that bag that are being worked on right now are sidewalk dining and hav been participating in the middle of this area for 30 years now 30 plus years um slow and gradual but I think this is good First Street was easiest looking at at the seaw walk you know lawn and everything the others were more challenging but cut and fit which I think Taylor touched on in some length and response to some questions make it fit make it better particularly with two or three new developments likely to be coming in on new property that can be designed to take advantage this so that's sidewalk dying the other one is Boardwalk activation and um that's going to take a lot of thought because it's U tickly and prickly um the last piece that fits in with this is the evental parking lot Renovations big time our parking lots are pretty ugly um the fact that we're adding parking spaces to various other initiatives and programs some Street ends and perhaps on the coral lot second and fourth and so forth gives us some flexibility to drop a space here drop a space there for the sidewalk dining and perhaps a few spaces when we redo some of these big parking lots we now have public works and parks and W guys who actually know how to landscape something that'll look decent next week uh which has not been the case historically I could show you pictures you would want to see of very expensive Landscaping it looks like poor stuff everything North a second looks awful um these things addressed sidewalk dining woodwalk activation Park Lot renovation um some years ago we had a really bad experience on Third Avenue North Street and we converted from parking to fully pedestrian and we had basically congregations of gangs drugs and guns Sergeant Shackleford serves some mighty fine time there in one case he actually picked somebody up and body slamed gun dropped out of his pocket and his buddy started shooting in the air ran all the way through the fully pedestrian and heavily seated pedestrian only access to the boardwalk and ran away and not another of 60 people who were present ever said who he was not like they didn't know so this combination the boardwalk and pedestrian and all that needs to be really carefully considered and Y all mentioned a couple of times getting with the chief he was around for this he knows so Consulting with him will be very important to make these different components put together in a way that's positive and expands Us North South expanding East West the trails you all are working on that this all fits together it's slow and tedious but thank you so much uh we've got to pull these pieces together to make Jack each what it can be thank you so much thank you Mr Bley uh anybody else like to participate in public comment Mr B yeah um I'm concerned with the can you just state your name and Casey Brun 804 13th Avenue North Jack Beach um these are all commercial uh considerations and not Community considerations um things that we're trying to deal with are uh bike trails uh crosswalks uh parking issues Public Safety and all these things are necessary because the amount of traffic we have coming into town and driving around town and uh it's it's difficult to get around I was on Atlantic Boulevard the other day 3:00 in the afternoon I had to do urns three times to make a turn because you couldn't make a turn where turns were and we're approaching that and everything that's on this agenda is going to add into it and when he mentions integrating we need to integrate not destroying ourselves in the course of doing what we're talking about doing because these things look good individually one at a time but I don't see um a viable and attractive commercial pedestrian environment to be what they have in Daytona or con Island New York I mean these are the examples that I saw in this program and I think that we need to uh reassess and um try to make things more Community oriented rather than more commercial oriented this uh uh sidewalk dining what is the community responded to about that you know you had the two-year program to check it out and it checks out because you know you walk down there it looks okay but what are the what do the residents really think about this we talk about getting communication with the residents we need better feedback before we proceed forward to see what we really want to do anyway thank you Mr Bond would anyone else like to speak on this item public he is closed and can we have a motion please I move we adopt ordinance number 2024 8218 on the second reading for sidewalk I second we have a motion and a second any discussion Miss Goldie I'd just like to um comment on Mr Bron's question about um the community and and what value the sidewalk dining may have on the community piece of it and my hope is that because this is focused on restaurants encouraging restaurants to come to our downtown area that that will be places that I will want go and that maybe you will want to go um you know instead of some of the other businesses that we have right now that neither of us want to go to so our hope is that that's what the sidewalk dining program will will help us do and and help to make it more of a place that our residents want to go not Coney Island correct not Coney Island I have never seen Coney Island used as an example of anything related to Jacksonville Beach are downtown I'm not debating you sorry I just wanted to state that uh Mr rers thank you for your thoughtful comments sir I I would just like to say while I'm supportive this initiative I hope we can do more to support I mean we're we're giving these business public parking spaces and that's fine but I'd like to see us take the same approach with some other small businesses in town that have been brought before special magistrates that are not being afforded similar privileges that's thank you any other comments I just want to say I think it was app propo that um Mr Wagner brought up the deck the chairs and kind of going from one event to the other I did the same thing from City Hall to Deck the chairs and over on the side with Waka and chal and Brewing it was laughter and families and great food and just a really what I would consider a vibrant walk down the street through Jacksonville Beach I think um this did not come out of a vacuum this came out of years of community visioning meetings and talking to our residents about what they wanted and one of the things that they wanted is a downtown that they want to go to and that they want to use and being open and utilizing the great environment that we have here uh through through outdoor dining and through good use of our public space was consistent a consistent theme across every single meeting that we had so I'm really glad that this has been a success so far and that we're taking steps this is not a a right this is something that we would will be working with the the business owners to um Implement where it makes sense um for our city in the direction of our downtown I appreciate um staff efforts on this as well and I think this is just one of the best things that we've done in a long time so I'm glad we're looking at uh furthering this program any other questions or comments Madam cler roll call council member Golding yes council member horn yes council member Johnson yes council member Sutton yes council member Wagner yes council member wers yes mayor Hoffman yes motion carries the last item of the entire year Miss I'm so hungry did anyone order pizza why would you say pizza right now I'm sorry okay so uh this last ordinance we're I'm calling it zoning in progress and um I work with the city attorney on this I'm going to explain a little bit what this is about uh but since you thank thank you very much for adopting our comprehensive plan this the statute uh States very clearly what the timeline for these things are it does not become effective for 46 days um we were hoping and our deadline to adopt it is beginning of January but since you guys don't have a meeting in the beginning of January we're bringing it to you a little bit earlier than the than the deadline Our Hope originally uh was that we would have the LDC ready to go at this point in time we're very very close um we're going to bring it to the Planning Commission in January and to Council in February uh but in the meantime there's that that little bit of a gap in time where we've got a new C plan that's adopted and the LDC that's almost ready for the draft uh to bring forward for consideration and hopefully adoption uh so on top of that we also staff would like some time to basically train ourselves refresh ourselves and the entire um staff of the planning department there's 12 of us and even if you're not in zoning all day every day the questions at the counter are often zoning related so we need time to train staff we need try time to uh make sure everyone is on the same page with the changes that have been proposed and hopefully we'll make it to the end of the adopted um lvc additionally we want to make sure that we train our board members with what the new code is going to say and not every change is going to be something that everyone needs to know but Planning Commission is going to need to know what they need to know Board of adjustment and and CRA as well will need to know some things so this ordinance essentially allows us to suspend processing of certain types of applications while we're in that little window of time that we have plans that are kind of in flux um and to allow us to do some training as well so our goal is to have it as short amount of time as we can allowing the way it's written essentially around a month to get staff and the boards trained and and up to speed on the new changes and obviously Christian and I anticipate a whole bunch of questions moving forward from everyone including each other um to remind ourselves what we what we did with the new Cod so I'm happy to entertain any questions you have on this I I know it's kind of a new thing we don't see very often thank you Miss Ireland Mr can we wait till we have the motion do you mind um not a clerk will you read the ordinance by title Please an ordinance of the city of Jacksonville Beach Florida pertaining to land use and Zoning in Jacksonville Beach enacting a temporary suspension of certain applications prohibiting the processing of certain comprehensive plant text and map amendments rezonings variances and special exceptions to allow City staff time to review study and prepare final amendments to the city of Jacksonville Beach Land Development code and allow city council time to adopt final amendments to the Land Development code providing for purpose and intent severability conflict scrier errors non- codification and an effective date this ordinance is before the council for a public hearing and consideration on its first reading I will now open the public hearing on is number 2024 d821 19 I do not have any speaker cards on this item would anyone from the audience like to speak in favor of or against this ordinance seeing none the public hearing is closed and can I have a motion I move we approve ordinance number 2024 8219 on the first reading for zoning in progress suspension of certain activities and schedule a second reading for January 21st 2025 second we have a motion and a second Mr thank you so just make sure that I so what we're going to do is suspend certain accepting certain types of requests from residents right correct so I'll give you an example let's say someone comes in and they want to uh request an increase in lot coverage for a pool deck which is like half the applications or more that we do should the code go through as written they're not going to need it so we don't want to take their money and and do all the work involved if they can just wait a little bit longer obviously we don't know exactly you know what the end results going to be we're hoping it's what we've discussed with everyone um in the end but some things won't be necessary so so the reason I I asked for clarification is the one thing I would I would ask for us from from City just because we have so many different people that interact with our our residents is could we we develop some some some talking points for folks to be able to use cuz some folks may you know they may be under personal pressure to get things built trying to get things built by certain times it may not well what we're doing seems from our seat on the bus seems very reasonable and appropriate um it may not may not sit perfectly well with everybody else so I just ask that we kind of go through the thoughts of a you know some good talking points for our staff and then see if Jacob can uh can maybe do something more detailed in our two for twoes days or some other Communications because I would hate for this to become a dissatisfier when really there's no intent for it to be sure no I absolutely understand and and um I'll ask the City attorney this question actually because you know the whole idea is to again all the things I said take a pause allow for training avoid people applying for things they maybe don't need but should we get an application in for something that maybe isn't going to be impacted let's say outdoor restaurant space maybe not impacted by the code changes that might be something that we can still proceed with so I'd have to we kind of have to wait and see what comes in before we make those decisions but so if I may I think in section three as it's currently worded and you know this is an so there'll be another reading in January um near near the end it says the city will not accept any new applications for any of the Land Development approvals as described here in so I think anything that this would apply to and I'm sorry this laid hour with my brain does do not have 100% efficiency right now sound like you said there were there there might be some sort of applications that would not be applic the new Land Development code would not be applicable uh this section three may be a way to process process those and I'd be happy between now and the second reading if we get any specific examples I'd be happy to work at them with you that would be great thank you Mr lers yes I would like to just understand so will this make it easier or harder to get a variance um this particular ordinance no it doesn't impact that but the code is being changed in s such a way that it might be easier um for some folks to get a variance but the end goal really is to not have to have so many variances I mean we are processing in excess of 200 a year that's not efficient at all um so a lot of the changes that we propose to the code will hopefully decrease the number of variances that we are seeing and also make it easier for homeowners in particular to make improvements to their property without that 6 to8 you know week delay in having to go before the board of adjustment so will it do away like with the 10 foot uh setback will do away with setbacks no no setbacks lot coverage all all the same regulations we have in place now remain in place in the in the new version of The Land Development code some might just be different thank you any other questions or comments Madam clerk roll call council member horn yes council member jansson yes council member Sutton yes council member Wagner yes council member wers yes council member Golding yes mayor Hoffman yes motion carries can I have a motion to adourn move to adourn Second give a motion to Second all in favor signify by saying I any oppos have a merry Christmas happy holidays we will see you in 2025 meeting ised good job