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six o'clock. >> Good evening everyone. Welcome to the 420 Jacksonville Beach City Council meeting. We are going to begin as we always do with our opening ceremonies. Invocation delivered by Mr. Wagner followed by a salute to the flag. Please

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rise. Father, we take this moment. Thank you. This meeting is called to order. Madam clerk, roll call. >> Council member Golding >> here. >> Council member Horn >> here. >> Council member Jansen >> here.

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>> Council member Sutton >> here. >> Council member Wagner >> here. >> Council member Wowers >> here. >> Mayor Hoffman >> here. Moving on to approval of of the agenda. >> I move we approve the agenda. >> Second. We have a motion and a second. Any discussion? All in favor signify by

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saying I. >> Any opposed? Motion carries. Council announcements. >> Miss Gold. >> Thank you, Mayor. Uh have a few announcements. First of all, I want to thank our communications department,

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which is Jacob and Jess, for the amazing Take Two Tuesday that they did last week about the sea turtles and uh the fact that sea turtle nesting season is starting May 1st. Um they did a great job of covering all the points that are

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so important and I will just repeat them for the sake of the audience that's watching the council meeting tonight. keep our beach clean, dark, and flat. That means pick up any trash. Don't leave anything behind. Um, turn your

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lights off if you have uh a property that's on the beach. Um, don't use your cell phone lights. Um, things like that. Keep keep the beach dark so that the turtles can find their way back to the

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ocean. Um, also flat. um knock down sand castles, fill in holes, that sort of thing >> until the kids are done building the sand castle before you knock. >> Right. Right. Right. At the end of the day, don't go around making kids cry.

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But um anyway, great job, Jacob and Jess. You you guys hit it out of the park and I thank you so much for that because um it was the information that needed to get out. And to to the mayor's point just real briefly because I'm sure the mayor is going to cover it a little

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more in depth, but we do have the sand castle contest this Saturday um at noon and then hopefully those sand castles will be taken down at the end of the contest. That's part of our beaching beaches um opening of the beaches weekend and we have the parade on Sunday

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at two. So we hope everybody will come out. Also want to um do a couple of other thanks. I want to thank animal control and our J Beach Police Department who have um been increasing their efforts to address the problems that we've had with owners having their

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dogs off leash on the beach. We've had several people come to us um about this issue. And um just want to remind everybody, your dogs are supposed to be on leash when they're on the beach, unless they're in the water, but if they're not in the water, they need to

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be on leash. it's for their safety and for everyone else's safety as well. And also want to thank public works because um we also had some people come to us a while back with some concerns about our walkovers, our new walkovers being

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slippery when sand gets on them. And so um I got an update from our public works director that we have a pilot program to test out slip resistant materials. And so hopefully, you know, I've seen it

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myself because when I run on the beach, I there's a there's some walkovers in my district that I use that are kind of steep and when they get sand on them, it's it is a little it's a little concerning that, you know, you could slip a little bit. So hopefully they'll be able to find something that will be a

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good solution and address that problem. >> Thank you, Miss Golding. Mr. Jansen. >> Yeah. So, just briefly, I want to welcome two new restaurants to our community. Um, you might have known that Panera left our community not too long ago and, uh, Bronx House Pizza has taken

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over that establishment. So, uh, welcome them to Jacksonville Beach and then Alder and Oak is taking over the old Jacko Island Brewing Company space. So, um, so welcome aboard these two, uh, restaurants and, uh, do your part as a

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patron and, uh, go visit them. Any other council announcements? Just to add on to Miss Golding, we actually have a couple more events associated with the opening of the beaches. I think there's a silent disco

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on the pier. Nobody's here who can confirm that for me, but on Friday. Um, and there's a fishing tournament as well. So, we're really trying to expand um that event out. And then we also have our farmers market that's out here at Seawwalk or at the Leam Plaza on

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Tuesday. and then the Penman Park on Saturday morning. So, we're going to have a really busy weekend. If you want something else to do, the Beaches Museum will be hosting the Fletcher All Class Block Party on Saturday night. And you do not have to have attended Fletcher,

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just want to support the museum, but you should have a high tolerance for Fletcher graduates because there will be a lot of us there. So, it's a really fun event, benefits the museum, and just goes um handinhand with the festivities of the weekend with the opening of the beaches. Okay, seeing no other council

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announcements, we'll move on to courtesy of the floor and we'll start with uh Sarah Verlander. If you want to come up, give us your name and address. You'll have two minutes to address the council. >> Thank you. Sarah Verlander, 1653 Marsh in Lit Court. And I'm here tonight

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because I'm a resident directly located behind the Discovery School. Um and it's directly adjacent to the southwest portion of this development. And we have three children living at home. So, I'm very sure a lot of you understand where I'm coming from. I want to be very clear. My family and I moved into our

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home with the understanding that the southwest portion of this neighboring property, which directly borders our home, was approved in 2018 as a passive retention or low impact area. That understanding mattered greatly because it directly influenced our investment, our expectations, and our trust in the

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city's planning process. We have now learned that the approved plans show a playground in that exact location. And this is extremely frustrating, deeply concerning, and what I would consider an abuse of power. A passive retention area and an active playground are not remotely the same thing. A playground

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brings constant activity, increased noise traffic lighting safety concerns, and a much greater intensity of use immediately next to a property line. Instead of a quieter buffer protecting residential homes, one of the most disruptive uses on the entire site

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is now being placed directly behind ours. This directly impacts our privacy, our peace, our ability to enjoy our home, and the future value of one of the largest investments our family has made. It also raises serious concerns about drainage, fencing, security, and the

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physical impact construction and long-term use may have on our property. What's most troubling is not just the change itself, but how it has happened. Construction's already underway. The planning commission has not reviewed these changes and residents were initially blocked from accessing the

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updated plans. If the original 2018 approval identified this area differently, then moving forward with a materially different use without proper public review is unacceptable. Homeowners should not have to discover major changes like this after

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construction has already started. As the property owner most directly affected, I'm asking the city to immediately require a full review of whether this revised plan is consistent with the original approval and whether these changes should have been brought back before the planning commission before

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any work began. We're not asking for special treatment. We're asking for accountability. We're asking for the same transparency and due process that every homeowner deserves when decisions this significant affect their property, their quality of life, and their

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financial future. Once this is built, the damage to our privacy, our enjoyment of our home, and our potentially property value simply cannot be undone. I respectfully ask the city not to allow this to move forward without property review. And if anyone would love to come

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and view the activity from my backyard, you're more than welcome to do so. Thank you so much for your time and consideration. Thank you, Miss Ferlander. Barbara Black, if you could just turn the mic on, just press the little red button there. There

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you go. I'm Barbara Black. I live at 1516 Marsh Inlet Court and I too am here to support my neighbors. I couldn't say it any better than what was just said. Um

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I guess I I'm an old girl and I've been around a while and I love the way democracy works when it works. Do your jobs, please. your elected people

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to let Discovery just do whatever the heck they want and flaunt what the commission has agreed to seems so terribly wrong. It affects us all on the street, not only our property values, but the

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traffic. Um, so I'm I'm begging you, please do your jobs. We should at least be able to meet with the planning people. That seems to have been stopped along the way. We just got plans today. We've been

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asking for plans. So, um, let's make democracy work here. Thank you. >> Thank you, Mrs. Black. Victoria Ye. Good evening, Victoria Ye, 1575 Marsh

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Inlet Court. Um, thank you for listening to me. I'm going to try and keep it short. I uh agree with everything that has already been said. I did want to at least give you a little story. Um, I'm next door to Sarah and there we have a

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big building behind me, so damage is done. no privacy. But as far as security and other concerns that we have brought up, there was an event that took place not too long ago at the Discovery School and one of the children there took a a

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piece of a concrete block and threw it into my property, hit the pool, went in the pool. I luckily wasn't in there in the pool at that time. None of my pets were in there, but any one of us could have been hurt. And we did report it to

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the school. They did punish the child, but there has been nothing that has happened since then to block another child from doing that. Let's face it, kids are kids. That's going to happen. I'm sure I did worse things as a kid, but um something needs to be done

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because there's no buffer there. Anybody can easily throw anything over into any one of our yards. That's it. >> Thank you. >> Thank you, Mrs. Ye. Cheryl Brasa. >> Hi, thanks for having me back. Cheryl

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Brussa, 538 10th Street North. Um, I just have a couple of stories as well. My first one is we put up signs so people could contact us so that we could get more of the commu community involved. And these signs were taken away within 15 minutes

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of the time we put them out. We thought, "How did that happen?" Well, we got some emails that explain how that happened. The chief of police provided these to us, and here's what happened. Officer Wallace and Officer Tater were handed pictures from the Discovery School of

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our signs. Officer Tater was told by Discovery School, I guess she works for them as the officer who hangs out or something. I don't know. But she called her code enforcement buddy Nikki. It says,

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"Nikki, we just got these." And listen to what she wrote. I received these pictures from the discovery school this morning. This is the neighbor that will be Donnie, I think, from that placed these put out. There is a history behind

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this so I have copied the city manager and the chief of police. Why is there a history about this? Why are they interpreting this differently? Why are they treating the discovery school differently? When I asked how to file a complaint, you know what they were told me? Go to the website and they'll be

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sent to that great complaint cloud in the sky never to be seen or heard from again because I haven't received any responses to my complaints that I filed months ago. And I've heard that some of you have sent them emails a couple of months ago that you've never responded to. But here at Discovery School, you

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say, "Top two to these city employees." They're like, "Yes, ma'am." And they're out there in 15 minutes ripping up our signs. We put another sign out in our yard right in front of our front door, not with any right away. Again, the code enforcement, they were running up and

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down the street looking for those. And when they saw ours in our yard, she went up into our yard and took it out. Who are they working for? Are they working for us and you? Are they working for Discovery? Because it looks like a lot

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like Discovery. She even said later in another email, "Call me on this because we need to chitchat about these people." That is called preferential treatment, is it not? Do I go up to a police officer and make a code enforcement? No. He'll tell me to contact code

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enforcement. We don't abide by preferential treatment. As Barbara said, in a democracy, we treat everybody the same. To give you another Oh dear. Okay. The problem here is they are not putting anything in front of the planning

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commission, the public board. Nothing rises to the level of having to put it in front of the public commission. According to the city attorney and the city manager, nothing rises to that level. So, they are doing whatever they want whenever they want. And you've got to stop that. You've got

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to make them refer this to the planning commission. This extra space that they wanted that has turned into an athletic field was approved yesterday. Yesterday. And we had no say. It wasn't referred to the planning commission. It's a totally

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different thing. is going to be a football field in our backyard. So, I know my time is out, but it's frustrating uh to that they get to do whatever they want to because they have some people inside the city. So, maybe

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we need to do a ethics investigation. >> Thank you. >> Thank you, Miss Brzusa. Heather Hedenorfer uh does not wish to speak but supports a planning commission uh review of the Discovery School. Susan

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Wolf also does not wish uh to speak and actually I'm sorry Miss Hudson. Do you want to wave your hand? Say hi. Thank you for being here. Susan Wolf, thank you for being here. Also does not wish to speak but supports having a planning commission review at Discovery School.

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Um, Daniel Negret, am I saying that? Did I get that close? Okay. Uh, also does not wish to speak, but supports a planning commission review of Discovery School. Thank you for being here. And then, uh, Donnie Brzuska does wish to speak. Come on up. You have

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three minutes. >> Good evening, Mayor U, council. Um, my name is Donnie Mis. 1511 Marshall Lake Court in August. My son was nearly hit by a car in front of Discovery School. There was no crossing guard. There was no teachers and no traffic control. Not much has changed

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since then. But that moment that forced us to look deeper, look more closely how this school is operating in a zone residential area. The Discovery School operates under conditional uses approved by the planning commission um which with specific conditions designated to

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protect surrounding homes and families. And importantly, the planning commission retained authority over any changes to that site or those conditions. And here we are today. Construction has already begun. Grading is underway. Dirt is moving. Over a quarter acre of

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wetlands is gone. Residents were blocked from reviewing plans under an unknown city policy after pushing back and notifying Councilman Wagner. We did receive access to the plans today. The plans that were approved yesterday on

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Sunday. Construction started weeks ago. The plans reviewed show clear deviations from the approved site plan. The west side is now an athletic field with a playground on the southwest side immediately adjacent to residential

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properties. That's not a minor deviation. That is a change in use, layout, and intensity. And under the city's own process, those changes require planning commission review. But instead, we've been told by the city manager, the city's not enforcing the key conditions.

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Crossing guards are a gray area and there's uncertainty of whether the conditions even still aren't effective. Residents don't don't see safety as a gray area. Mike, especially when children are involved.

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Residents follow the city's processes to bring this to the planning commission, and that request was denied by the city attorney. He said it's not appropriate even though it's spelled out in the city's own website to contact planning through the planning and development um

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department. So the question is simple and it still hasn't been answered. If there are changes to the planning commission's approved site plan, where are those plan changes supposed to be reviewed? Because right now construction is moving forward full stop. Conditions are not being enforced and the planning

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commission has not even reviewed any of this. Members of this council aren't even invol have been not even been made aware. Emails have not even been returned to members of this council requesting additional information. This isn't about stocking the school.

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This is more than about just routine school traffic. It's about whether res residents have access to the processes put in place to protect our homes, our families, and our way of life. We're asking for three things. Pause construction at Discovery

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School. implement a planning commission review immediately and enforce the conditions that were set in the site by the planning commission. If the plans match what was approved in 2018, then let the planning commission confirm that. If there's uncertainty about the conditions, then let the planning

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commission review that as well. Right now, those questions are not being reviewed in the public forum responsible for overseeing them and construction is moving forward anyways. that bypasses this council, that bypasses the planning commission, and that's bigger than

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school traffic. This is a matter of public trust. >> Thank you. >> Thank you, Mr. Brzusa. That is the last uh courtesy of the floor that is not attached to a specific item. So, we will start our consent

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agenda or with our consent agenda. >> I move to approve the consent agenda. Second. I'd like to I'd like to pull item B. >> Okay. >> For discussion, please. >> Okay. We have a motion and a second to approve the consent agenda. Uh except

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item B, which we will hear at the uh end of the regular agenda. Mr. Waters, are would you like to pull an item? >> No. I was just wondering are we're going to talk about this later. >> Item B. Yes. in tonight.

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>> Yes. >> Oh, okay. That's right. >> You're welcome. And uh all in favor of the consent agenda, less item B, signify by saying I. >> Any opposed? >> Consent agenda carries. Uh we will be

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postponing the wave maker presentation for a later date. I'm not going to tell you guys who it is. >> It's going to be a surprise for everyone, but it's going to be pretty great. And then moving on to city manager uh new business item A. Think

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Miss Gossit. Good evening, Mayor and Council. Ashley Gosset, CFO. Um this item before you tonight is the uh first amendment to the Central Square agreement. Um as you remember last year, council approved uh an agreement with Central Square to

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upgrade our uh existing enterprise resource planning system. Included in that upgrade is a payments module that will allow the city to accept credit cards for utility bill payments, building permits, business tax receipts, and other miscellaneous

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payments. Um and additionally, it will provide a consolidated payment processor that will give staff real time visibility into pending payments. That's something we don't currently have. Um this amendment also sets a service fee for debit and credit card payments at

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2.5% per transaction. Um it also sets some other uh in like ancillary fees and and it notes that all fees are negotiated with central square but administered by elevon. Um so attached to the agenda item is the application

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for service with elev gateway. Um, and also attached or should have been attached to the agenda is exhibit 10, which is at all of your um, places and will be added to the um, minutes by the clerk. It's essentially

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the same things that appear in the elevation. The amendment just references a um, exhibit 10, and I apologize for not attaching it earlier. Um, I'm happy to answer any questions that you might have. >> Thank you, Miss Gossip. Can I have a motion? I move to approve the first

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amendment to the agreement with Central Square Technologies LLC to set processing and service fees. >> Second. We have a motion and a second. Any discussion, Mr. Walkers? >> Thank you, Madame Mayor. Uh, good

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evening, Miss Cassid. Always nice to see you. I was just curious where it says paid by Jax here on this payment processing quote. Who is is that the city of Jacksonville Beach? >> That's us. >> I didn't know. Okay. It made me think of the city of Jacksonville for some reason. >> Yes, we had asked the vendor to call out

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which payments that the city's responsible for and which will be passed through onto the customer. So that was notated by them that we would be paying the chargeback fees and that the service fee of 2 and a half% would be passed along to the customer. >> Well, let me ask you this. In your

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judgment, do you think this is fair to the people of Jacksonville Beach? So, right now we have a service fee for anyone paying by credit card online and it's $4.95 per $500. Um, I do believe that 2 and a half% is reasonable given

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kind of the industry standards. Um, and what council had previously approved when we were working on a different implementation project was 2.75%. Um, so this is actually lower than that. >> All right. Thank you, >> Miss Golding.

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Thank you and thank you for answering all my questions that I sent you earlier, Ashley. So, I just had a follow-up question because I'm looking at exhibit 10. And so, in in my previous questions, I you know, there was some discussion in the memo about how the

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echek payment is the most popular payment, right? And 37% of our customers use it. And you had said that means 13,000 payments per month, which is a lot. And I see that our we're expecting

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the monthly card transaction to be 2,300 per month. Is that correct? Um, so when we put an estimate together for Elevon, we had to give them some sort of range of data, but our actual uh

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experience in calendar year 2025 is we had 32,000 people pay via credit card throughout the year. >> Throughout the year. Okay. >> Do we expect that to go up at all? I mean, or do you think the echek is still

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going to stay a popular method? Um, so that's kind of the the interesting question. Um, what this will offer us is at the counter credit card payments. And so for folks that come in doing um, utility connections paying a deposit, we

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do think we'll see a rise in usage for that circumstance. Um, but uh, I think in general because there's a service fee, we probably will see usage grow somewhat, but not too much. But I'm

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very curious um with this new um payment option available, how many people will make use of it in person. So um I'll let you know once we get it implemented. >> Okay. Thank you. >> I remember a time where we did not accept credit cards at all.

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>> Yes. >> And I joined this council in 2012. So that is really saying something. So um this is an an exciting step forward. Any other questions or comments from council? Madam clerk, roll call. >> Council member Golding, >> yes. >> Council member Horn, >> yes.

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>> Council member Jansen, >> yes. >> Council member Sutton, >> yes. >> Council member Wagner, >> yes. >> Council member Waters, >> yes. >> Mayor Hoffman, >> yes. Motion carries. Item two. >> I move we authorize the city manager to execute the payment gateway application

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with Eleanor. >> Second. We have a motion and a second. Any additional discussion? Madam clerk, roll call. >> Council member Horton, >> yes. >> Council member Jansen, >> yes. >> Council member Sutton, >> yes. >> Council member Wagner, >> yes. >> Council member Wowers,

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>> yes. >> Council member Balding, >> yes. >> Mayor Hoffman, >> yes. Motion carries. Moving on to resolutions. Resolution A. So this resolution um is intended to repeal the previous resolution that set the um service fee under our Tyler Munis

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implementation project and to set a new resolution that sets the methodology by which we would assess a credit or debit card fee. Um specifically this sets out that any fee must be approved by council. Uh, and the rate should only

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be that to recover the cost of accepting the credit or debit card. Um, and also the city will always provide an alternative nocost payment solution for customers. I'm happy to answer any questions you might have. >> Thank you. Can we have a motion on

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resolution A? I move I move we adopt resolution number 2210-2026 revising service fees for credit card charge card and debit card payments and providing for an effective date. >> Second. We have a motion and a second. Any discussion? Seeing none, madam for

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roll call. >> Council member Jansen, >> yes. >> Council member Sutton, >> yes. >> Council member Wagner, >> yes. >> Council member Wers, >> yes. >> Council member Golding, >> yes. >> Council member Horton, >> yes. >> Mayor Hawkman, >> yes. Motion carries. Thank you, Miss Gossip. Mr.

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>> Putin, move here to talk. That's okay. So, uh, just a little background. Back in, uh, April 2025, the council approved two programs, a hedging program along with a prepaid prepaid gas program. Um, the the hedging program was in existence until

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just this past May or sorry, um, March. So, we so that has ended. We never did exercise the prepaid program because market conditions changed very rapidly. We couldn't get the discount that we wanted. So I'm hearing we're asking to repeal that previous resolution and

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enter in a deal with Black Belt Energy for a minimum discount of 50 cents per MMBTU for a 30-year period. Um the deal reprices every 5 to 10 years. It's mandatory it reprices at the end of five. If we don't maintain a minimum discount of 20 cents per MMBTU, then we

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can get out of the deal. It doesn't cost us a dime. So, and we pass we pass this savings along to our natural gas customers that buy gas from us. That's the resolution. >> Thank you, Mr. Putnham. Can I have a motion? I move we adopt resolution number 2207-20226

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authorizing an addendum to the gas services agreement permitting Florida Gas utility to act on the city's behalf and entering into a prepaid natural gas transaction with black belt energy. >> Second. We have a motion and a second. Any questions or comments from council?

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Mr. Wowers. >> Thank you, Madam Mayor. U Mr. Leam, you did reference a prepaid program that we were were supportive of back in April of 25 and it was not exercised. It >> was not

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>> right. I was a little surprised to find that out recently. So, if this one is not exercised, can we please be let it be known? >> Absolutely. Yeah, we'd always come back and let you know. Um, it was it was very rapid. It was almost like a overnight pricing that changed that whole market.

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Generally, that never happens. This this deal is already locked in, so we're good to go on this deal. >> That's reassuring. Thank you, sir. >> Any other questions? Madam Clerk, roll call. >> Council member Sutton, >> yes. >> Council member Wagner,

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>> yes. >> Council member Wowers, >> yes. >> Council member Falding, >> yes. >> Council member Horn, >> yes. >> Council member Jansen, >> yes. >> Mayor Hawkman, >> yes. Motion carries. Next resolution, Mr. Putnham.

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Um we re we came back to you maybe um in December when we brought the Neptune Beach franchise agreement before you. Nothing has changed other than one thing and that's why we uh we decided to bring that back to you. Um we added some language on collaboration and

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cooperation in regards to the street lights that are selected for Neptune Beach. We didn't agree that we would always um you know go along with with their recommendation, but we did agree that we at least talk to you and if there's some big shift in cost away from the regular rate payers, we may have ask

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them to pay for that separately. But that's the only significant change in this and it really doesn't hold us to much other than you know cooperating with them on the selection of lighting. >> Thank you. Can I have a motion on resolution C? I move we adopt resolution number 2212-2026

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adopting the revised city of Meto Beach franchise agreement and authorizing the mayor and city manager to countersign the franchise agreement upon adoption. >> Second. >> We have a motion and a second. Any discussion? >> Seeing none. Madam clerk, roll call. >> Council member Wagner, >> yes.

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>> Council member Wings, >> yes. >> Council member Golding, >> yes. >> Council member Horn, >> yes. >> Council member Jansen, >> yes. >> Council member Sutton, >> yes. >> Mayor Hoffman, >> yes. This motion carries. Thank you, Mr. Putnham. Ordinance D.

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Miss Mobs. I'm sorry. Resolution D. Thank you, Mr. City Attorney. Uh, good evening, Taylor Mobs. You have before you a resolution for consideration for the pilot program for the boardwalk, uh, which the first

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reading of the ordinance on April 6 was passed. Uh, this is goes along with that ordinance. I did want to call out um two things that I did notice when I was going back over this uh before the meeting on page 105 of the resolution.

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We do reference food vendors. Um there was a typo in that it should specify that those are at this stage not inclusive of food trucks that came back from I believe the workshop that we just weren't quite ready to explore that. Um, when we state mobile food vendors, those

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are more carts and smaller things, sandwiches, hot dogs, ice cream, lemonades. Um, and again specifying no alcoholic beverages. Um, so we will not be just having random bars popping up on the boardwalk. And then on page three of five under section G, um, I believe we

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left a sentence in that it should have been taken out. The city attorney and I briefly discussed this um, I believe last week. It goes uh, over the insurance coverage. We will require insurance for the vendor, but we also noted that requiring that $2 million coverage was not feasible for a lot of the type of vendors we wanted to target.

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And we did some research and we found that there is small vendor insurance for these type of events. Um, so I would like to remove that sentence as long as city attorney concurs. And we do still require that they maintain insurance, but we do take out that $2 million coverage. Um, because again, that's just

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not realistic for what our goals are for the program. And I'm happy to answer any questions. If you'd like to, you can make the motion indicating those two changes, Dan, or we can just amend it once it's up, once the motion has been made.

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>> Either way, sufficient. So, whatever your pleasure is is fine. >> Okay. If you want to go ahead and just make the motion and get it on the floor, then we can do that. Um, >> I move we adopt resolution number 2215-2026. Wait, wrong one. >> Yeah, that's right. Establishing a

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boardwalk activation pilot program. Sorry. >> Second. >> We have a motion and a second. Mr. Wagner, >> thank you for the uh the changes and the additional information. Can you just for kind of educational purposes share roughly what the cost is for the small

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vendor insurance? >> Sure. So from my research and again which was yeah, you know I didn't call necessarily any of the providers but I did some research and it looks like it's anywhere from $45. I saw up to about $75 some offered monthly. The lowest rate I saw for monthly vendor insurance I

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believe was either $24.99 or $29.99. and that was for a small vendor to apply and have the minimum coverage required um good for 30 days. So there were several different options. Um but you know this we knew there had to be a different way because these type of things occur all

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over. Um and so it seems to be an affordable option to have small vendors >> and and I I'm sorry just one more followup. I apologize. Um and I know I think we talked about this. I just can't recall where we end up. Was there is there no way to for the city to have

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like an umbrella way to protect because some of these folks aren't going to make you know a couple hundred bucks? >> Sure. You know, it was and we did discuss that it kind of came up when we were kind of looking at this all kind of holistically trying to figure out what

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was going to work and what seemed to be the best option to protect the city and as well as the vendor was to go with the small vendor insurance. There were a couple of different options. Um but after we kind of went back and forth, this seemed to be the most practical option. Um if for some reason, you know,

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we get a month or two in if things pass and and we're hearing from vendors, hey, this isn't realistic, this isn't working, um these are things because we're in a pilot phase that we can go back and reassess and see if we can figure out another option. >> Okay, great. Thank you. We've got a couple um I'm sorry there's

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a couple lights on the board, but as I'm thinking about the two items on the agenda, I I have a speaker card from Mr. Stevens and um Gary Messer who just left. Um and it's attached to ordinance B, but I almost wonder if this might be a more appropriate place for you to

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speak. Bill, >> do you want to >> It's a little bit out of order. Um because we're almost we're kind of doing the meat and potatoes of of this program before we do the second reading of but I I think this is probably if I know you this is probably going to be

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>> I didn't really want to have all my time as far as the insurance thing goes when we did the art walk up here it was very expensive to do a blanket policy for one event but if you did it for an annual thing and you could throw in whatever else you wanted under the umbrella it was very inexpensive that way. So you

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you might talk to your vendors about doing an umbrella thing for the year, not an individual event thing. >> Good to know. If you can just give us your name and address and we'll >> My name is Bill Stevens. Live at 733 Second Avenue North and I own a business at J Beachside at 234 First Street

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North. And I have to apologize. I really don't know anything about this. I've been staying away from any city politics for some time and somebody mentioned this to me. And so here I am ignorant and coming up and raising a little bit of a stink. And I'm not going to really raise much of a stink, but I do want to point out a couple of things. I was in business on the ocean front when they

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originally redid the boardwalk and did this um design onto the boardwalk. Well, they showed up there after they started construction. Turns out the property owners own all the way to the end of the boardwalk in most of the sections of the boardwalk. And so they agreed to give an

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egress and part of it for them to be able to have police vehicles and rescue vehicles go up and down. And I'm sure that that property is still owned by those people. And I'm sure that for people to set up and sell us stuff on those places, you're going to have to get permission from property owners to

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do that, too. I I know if I own that property, I would certainly be suspect because you get permission for restaurants to go out so far. And and the rest of that is the egress part for the emergency vehicles. Uh um and I don't know what kind of procedure was

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used or you know I if I known you were going to be looking to do vendors on the ocean front I probably wouldn't do it now but if I was 20 years younger I'd probably go oh I want to do that and don't know if it was made as a public offering for people to bring proposals to it or really somebody just said hey I want to do this and here's what I'm

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willing to pay for it and I have no idea how much you're charging them and I don't know what's really involved. I've heard different things from a couple different people from it's just a special event maybe once a month thing or it's every week or I've heard seven days a week 365 days a year. So I don't

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know what's going on and I do care but by now it's kind of at the last minute but I think you need to step back and take a look at this stuff and look at some of the questions. Number one is would you can legally tell these people they can go out there and sell on that property to begin with? I think that's the first step you have

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to make. Okay. >> Thank you, Mr. Stevens. Um, I think that Gary, I've got your card here. It says you do not wish to speak. >> Okay. Come on up, Gary. You're going to have three minutes.

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>> So, we own Seashells and Coral and Surf and Skate Surf Shop on Jackson. >> Your name and address. >> What's that? >> Start with your name and address. for the record. >> 230 Boardwalk and 239 North First Street. >> Thank you.

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>> Beach, the big pink store and the big blue store on the boardwalk. Y'all know who we are. >> Anyway, we own out onto the bulkhead all the way to where the center block is. So, we can fence in all the way across the front of our property, which we probably will do if this is implemented.

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And that's going to leave just barely enough space for a cop car to crawl right across the front of our whole piece of property. Um, if there's people on the boardwalk and Rain storms come up in the summertime and wintertime and the lightning starts striking everywhere. Where do they run? They run into our two buildings because you can't run in the

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bathroom there. You can't run up and down the boardwalk. There's no place to go. So that just drives all of these people straight into our places and up under our eaves, which is not safe under our ease either. They think they stand out there and take these lightning strikes and we're telling them they can't do that. It's not a good idea, but

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they want to try and harbor underneath us. So, when we bring vending out there, what's going to anchor these vending? Is this going to be permanent structures on the boardwalk out front on y'all's side of the of the bulcat, not our side? Um, are cop cars or cops going to be able to

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move along the boardwalk. You can see where size more has their fence all the way out. We're allowed that same access. And, uh, we don't want vendors out front of our store whatsoever. when they have a uh a popup. I lose about $10,000 a day

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for popups. Uh we tolerate them. We know that's part of life. They're out on the lawn out there and it drops our sales tremendously just way it is. If it's a Sunday without a popup, we make a lot more money. If we start up and down the whole boardwalk for six blocks out in front of us, we're selling jewelry.

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We're selling drinks. We're selling t-shirts that say Jack Beach, Florida on them. We buy a half a million dollars worth, lots of them. We have all the sweatshirts and the and the I mean, people love our stores. They come to them all the time. They say it's their high point of their vacation is coming to Jeff Beach and going shopping with me

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and Beachside and all three of our locations. Um, it's going to make it very difficult for us. What's going to stop them from blowing into our windows when these big storms push up? These storms push up in like five or 10 minutes time and all of a sudden the winds just blowing stuff everywhere. Is

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this going to be an adult permanent structures on the boardwalk? Are you just going to put up pot tents up on the boardwalk with tables that can blow around and blow into people and blow into everybody? How are you? Right now, the cops have a hard time controlling boardwalk. They don't come up there until we call them. Like last year when

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the homeless guy stabbed the other homeless guy right in front of us right there. I've been cut and stabbed multiple times on multiple arms by homeless people coming into our stores and starting rockets and stabbing us with knives and stuff. uh we see this

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stuff go on. Uh it's not pretty, but the when we call the cops, the cops come, but the cops aren't up there all the time patrolling and watching this. And I understand it's hot. They're wearing the big heavy clothes and the bulletproof vest and stuff. They can't just be walking up in the heat or in the winter

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time when it's too cold. So, what are these? Are these just going to be sitting like they're out on the lawns where they anchor them down? There's no place to anchor that down out there. Is this safe? Is this a Is this just going to be a permanent everyday thing? >> Thank you, Mr. Messer.

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>> People aren't answering our questions. We haven't heard yet. >> We're about to I'm going to ask um >> we we try to talk to the mayor's office. We go up there and speak to them about issues that are happening up there with what's going on. >> The we never get an answer back. The

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mayor never calls us. She never comes to uh speak to us after we say we'd really like to speak to the mayor. >> I'm I'm sorry. Okay. I've not gotten any of those messages. >> I go to the office right up here and leave those messages. >> Mr. Messer, I'm going to go ahead and ask you to sit down. Your uh 3 minutes

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has expired and I'm going to ask Miss Mobs to come back up and address um a few of those specific concerns because there's clearly been some misinformation out there which we're used to. Um but I think if she can give a little bit of background in the Reader Digest version of what we can and can't do on the

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boardwalk right now and the fact that this just opens up options, it does not implement anything. So, if you could go ahead and spend some time on that. >> Yeah, happy to. Um, one of the big takeaways is where things are allowed. So, if somebody is trying to set up to

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sell lemonade and they're a solo vendor, they're not associated with a business, they don't have any business they're trying to, you know, work with. Um, the only place that they could even apply for to set up would be anything that is adjacent to public city- owned property.

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So, uh, in no situation would we, you know, the the CRA or the council or anyone the our friends over at parks that help us with the event side of things, uh, there would never be an approval where we're deciding a private vendor can go set up behind another

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private business that that won't happen under this. Uh, now that doesn't mean that a private business can't decide, hey, you know what, this is working out great. we would like to set up um an extension of our store or we would like to contract with our friends who sell a product that's different than what we

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carry and we would like to do this on a you know this weekend. Um if that's the case then that business or property owner has to apply on behalf of that applicant. Um and that's to again ensure that we're not allowing um private vendors to go and encroach on the

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businesses. So that we do not want that to happen. Um, it is not permanent. These are going to be reviewed as they come in. Um, I will be very blunt that every one of them will not get approved. Once the spaces that are publicly owned are taken up. If everybody is trying to

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go out there on the same Saturday and we've already reached the max, that's it. Those would not be approved. Uh, we will work closely with parks and recck. They obviously have it figured out on how to promote and host and manage these events. So, we'll work closely with them on the event committee and utilize that same committee to review all of these

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applications to ensure um we're not allowing something on a holiday weekend when we know that our police department is already busy. Um if there is another event already planned in Lakeland Plaza or Seawalk, we obviously would not want to overcrowd. Um and so we'll be mindful of that as well. And so once anything is approved, it does not mean that tomorrow

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vendors are going to start setting up all over the boardwalk. Um they will only be allowed from sun up to sun down. uh we're going to treat it just like we treat the hours of basically our parks where when it's over it's over. Um there will not be any extended special hours

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under this program and in the event application um everybody will have to submit the name, contact information of the person we can call directly on the day of to where they're not breaking down in a timely manner or we do have some crazy weather event come in and we need to reach out to someone. We will

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make sure in every application once it's approved we have that contact information. Um, and then anyone who is working that weekend, whether it be from our team, parks, police department, fire, they will all have information on who to reach out to if there's an issue.

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>> And can you touch briefly on the survey that's going to be happening? >> Yes. >> If if this item passes. >> Yes. So, if this passes, um, I worked with communications department and we will be issuing a survey, um, to residents and business owners asking of the approved uses what they would like

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to see the most. um to really at least from the city side be able to go out and target the events that the people are really wanting to see. The last thing we want to do is go through the work of getting a pilot program established and then we're not even providing a service that the community wants to see. So we will issue that survey to see what they

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would like to see out there of the approved uses um when they would be most likely to visit during the weekday on weekends what time and get that feedback and use that to guide our framework in the type of vendors that we would like to target. Thank you. Uh we'll go ahead and go to

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council questions and comments. Miss Golding, >> thank you. Um so I just I understand what Gary was saying about the competition and how it affects his business and um you know

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based on the comment that you just made about the survey and the feedback and everything. Personally, I and I think we discussed this when we in the meetings where we discussed this. I I'd really like for us to be focusing on the days

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like during the week when the area is not as active because that's the whole purpose of the activation. Right. Right. >> Um >> as opposed to weekends and and when f and of course you said we won't be doing this when festivals are going on. No.

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Um, but I did want to ask also, um, because the food truck pilot program just brought this to our attention and and then I've had, you know, I've talked to a business owner in the downtown area

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who said they didn't know anything about this. So, did we do any communication to out to the businesses in the central business district to let them know that this was going on at all? >> Yes. I did. >> Yeah. Okay. And I was going to say I

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know it came up probably at the last meeting we had that you host with all the downtown business community. Um and I mean and to be fair that's been a few months ago. So as far as recent in the last few weeks, no. Um that's on us. You know, we can take that and and reach back out. Uh but it has been

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communicated previously. >> That's good. I just, you know, it's it's our common theme. We've got to keep communicating and and when when I hear somebody say, "I didn't know about that." It's like, >> so, okay. Thank you,

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>> Mr. Wowers. >> Thank you, Mayor, and thank you, Councilwoman Golden, for your thoughtful comments because in my little walking up and down the boardwalk, some people seem to know, some people didn't, and that's fine. I I appreciate that we made the

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effort to try. But um you know I emailed you some questions and after some discussions I have a couple new ones so please forgive me. So uh first of all if a person wants to take advantage of this program I assume that they get their permit. How much does a permit cost?

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>> So at this time historically the way we've structured pilot programs like for outdoor dining um we are not charging permit fees when we have pilot programs until a program is established permanently. Um the only one right now that we have is outdoor dining, but we do not charge a fee for that right now.

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>> So it's free. >> That is the plan right now unless we're told otherwise. Yes. >> Okay. Now, who can take advantage of this program? Like if my neighbor wants to do it or whoever. >> Yeah. So if your neighbor was able to obtain the small vendor insurance and be able to prove that they have the

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insurance, uh they would reach out, apply, we would meet and make sure that whatever's on the application meets all the criteria. And then if the weekend or weekday or whenever it is that they're requesting is available, um, as long as they meet all the criteria, they would get approval and they would be able to move forward.

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>> Okay, great. Because, uh, and Councilman Wagner, what my understanding of the food truck program is, it will only be allowed once a quarter. Is that correct? Okay. Because this is another concern that I've been thinking about. Um, could a person, the way this is written,

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apply for a permit every day of the week? They could. It It wouldn't be approved. >> Okay. >> Um I mean, just realistically speaking, we're going to have days of the week that are going to fall on a holiday weekend. Fourth of July being example.

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Uh we're going to have pres-scheduled festivals that already are utilizing Wednesday, Thursday, Friday for setup with festival day, Saturday, and Sunday. So, they could apply, but if there are other things already scheduled, then they would not be approved. >> Okay. because yeah, I I do share the concerns of some folks that um you know,

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we're going to let these people set up a free shop on the boardwalk by the way of people who have been trying making a living that way for for a long long time. And then um going back to an issue that I noticed walking up and down the boardwalk and finally understanding

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where the private property line is in the public, will these people be allowed to put their whatever they are um tents or tables on private property without the owner's consent? >> No. >> Okay. Thank you, Miss Mobs.

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>> Yep. Of course, Mr. Wagner. So, um, you know, kind of interesting as I was, as we've been talking a lot about this, I've really kind of in my mind also been really thinking or probably more thinking about this as a, uh, via

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an organizer like at the 904 popups or an event like that where somebody steps forward and says, I'll do all the organizing and all of that. >> So, um, and I talked to a couple folks that I know that are interested going a similar type thing through this pilot. So my my question is is are we going to

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allow an or an organizer to come in and put together something across the boardwalk a through this and b if we are um h how could we evaluate that versus um a bunch of individuals coming up and

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doing it kind of independently? Um and and would if we do have both, would we assess those and look at those at that one year mark and kind of say like are there things we'd rather do more or less of or those kind of things?

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>> Yeah. So part one, yes, kind of a master event planner could absolutely apply and they could absolutely apply from the beach to the six north. However, they would have to have the permission of every single private property owner along that corridor to do anything outside of what is owned by the city. So, anything that's adjacent to any of

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the private properties, they would also have to have the private property owners on that application. Um, doesn't mean it won't happen. It very well could. They would just have to kind of go through some extra steps. Um, if even if someone wanted to apply to kind of take up all the space that's on city own property,

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they absolutely could do that. Um, I think we'll also be able to really determine once we have a program in place and we have approved uses when we put that information out to the public to kind of see what if these uses make the most sense and kind of what format's going to work for you and what's going to draw the user in. I think that'll

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also give the event committee a lot of um guidance on trying to decide what's going to work best. Um, and as far as if you know, we had three private vendors that had applied to be adjacent to Laam Plaza on a Friday afternoon in the summertime and they've applied on Monday

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of whatever week and then someone comes in and they apply on Thursday of that same week, but they want to take up all the spaces. At that point, it would be a first come, first- serve basis, kind of like we do our event permits already. um you know, we wouldn't necessarily boot out a private vendor

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for a larger uh program, if you will. Um unless, you know, we get feedback and and we do need to go a different direction, which again, at the one-year mark, I think we'll have a lot more data and a lot more kind of understanding of what's going to work and what's not going to work. Um and we may find that it does work to have a master kind of event promoter doing them. It it may

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not. Um >> can I is it all right to ask Paul? Um, have you guys thought through how we might make ourselves accessible to some of these event planners or some of these individuals maybe if this gets passed >> and before we start to implement it so that they might be able to kind of

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engage with this with city the city staff and future. >> Yeah, definitely. Um, I will say I will personally rely heavily on Allison down at parks and wreck. Uh, she is my go-to for all things events. She is wonderful at it and so she will be a big resource and I will work with her with her current contacts of folks who do produce

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successful events and we'll go from there. We'll share the information with them and see what kind of feedback we can get. >> Mr. Horn, >> couple quick questions. I guess one of the things that was not um addressed in some of the comments was that was brought up was the timing and as or

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andor frequency andor um uh you know obviously our you know when it's February and it's 40 degrees outside and it's nor eastern nobody's going to be out there but um right now today was a great day >> and it's nice all the way into October.

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So what are we looking at in regards to frequency, timing, things like that? >> So right now the way we've kind of got the application process worded is we would like the applicants to apply on a

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first come first- serve basis. You know what we don't want to see is like January one someone comes in and applies for every single Saturday from May to September. Um doesn't mean that it's going to remain that way. We requested and we would like to see per the application 30 days notice that someone

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like they can start applying 30 days in advance. Um and when we receive feedback from the community, we're very hopeful that we will receive a lot of success on this survey to see when the residents would like to see this popup activation and the frequency. And I think from then

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we will kind of use that to guide the framework because right now we're like okay is once a month appropriate? Um, that was what we had tossed around with the application process is maybe doing these once a month and I'll pick, you know, kind of allowing for one weekend or one week to be active. Is that realistic? Is it going to work?

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Um, we're not sure to be very honest. Um, if the residents and businesses are like, hey, we want to see something out there every weekend where we don't have a festival, that's something that we could look at. But right now, what we were anticipating was about once a month kind of picking a week and that being when we allow this to happen.

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>> Okay. Um, if if I'm trying to remember. I wrote quickly and then I missed the other part, but something about not approving somebody's permit, but what would your criteria be for that? >> If they don't have the appropriate insurance, if they are trying to set up on behind a private business, if

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someone's trying to set up behind four points, but they don't have four points on their application. Um, if they're trying to have a food truck or something that is going to have a grease trap or something that's going to require fire inspection. Um, those were things we did not want in this initial phase. Um,

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those are things that at a later date we would consider. If they obviously are trying to sell it at a bar or sell alcohol, those would not be approved. Um, and and really anything that deviates from what the approved uses are and the required insurance. Um, outside of that, if again, we just kind of go

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back to that first come, first serve with the events committee. >> Okay. And again, I'm trying to ask as many questions as I can for the >> um, you know, for the folks who have questions about the program. But it does seem like some of the things that we heard that some people don't have um all

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the information. Um again based on what you just said. So uh you said four points. So somebody says I want to be in front of four points but they don't have an agreement with four points and I'm specifically looking towards you know our other vendors. So if somebody is going to does not have an agreement with

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you is my understanding that they will not be able to come and be outside of your business. >> Correct. Um and I guess you know obviously good to know and because your statement was you don't want anything out on the boardwalk

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period. Um so obviously then nobody would not be able to come and make an agreement with you unless you has had met that agreement. >> Yeah. >> Um >> the one thing I guess I I'll mention one more thing to you and then I have something for David. Um you mentioned

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the survey. >> Um I thought I I I when we were talking about this in the briefings, I thought we had a little bit more um I don't maybe more information. I almost seems to me like we're carts before the horse here, like we're trying to pass

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the resolution before we sit and really talk to some of these businesses. Um so that that to me that just kind of popped into my head that way. Um, specifically to David, uh, your thoughts on the comments in regards to if a business does not want

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is where where does the border the we've talked about this in the past, but where does our property line end and the private property begin or vice versa? >> I mean, the most simple answer is based on what the property records say.

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There's there's mean high water lines uh o over time uh which set up some some of the oceanfront property but as as time went by property was platted was was sold conveyed with legal descriptions. So it

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would it would all be based on survey. You know we would rely on and a lot of the information is already available on the property appraisers website but you know the the deeds have legal descriptions. uh those could be surveyed out and that's the specific answer to your question is it it depends on what

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the legal descriptions say. >> Okay. >> I think Mr. City Manager would like to speak. >> Sorry. Good. >> Mr. Horn uh and for the rest of council the majority for the majority of the boardwalk in the area that we're talking about from beach to six north for most of it it's about the midpoint. There is

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a concrete ribbon curb that goes right down the middle of the boardwalk and that roughly demarcates the property line. Everything to the east is considered the city property and everything to the west that butts up against the commercial property is roughly theirs. There are a few

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instances where that property doesn't exist and it's all city but for the most part the majority of it is 50/50. >> And remembering is there enough room on that ribbon if Mr. mentioned he if he puts if somebody decides to put a fence up, is

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there still enough room for a emergency vehicle with what we know are like city lights and things that are out there on the boardwalk and other fixed structures? I think we had that conversation, but I want to I want to say it here public so it's on the record. >> Yes. >> Okay. >> Yes, there it is.

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>> Again, I I would not want to see a business owner um going out and kind of blocking off the boardwalk at the same time. I also don't want to see us, you know, I I think the idea of anybody coming out there four or five days a week is problematic at best.

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>> Um I think the idea of a very very small footprint if this were to go forward, a very very gentle toe in the water to move forward, I think would be a reasonable starting point as long as we're all on that same page and the business owners, you know, have some

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say. Thank you. I was about to say that, so thank you for saying it. Um, nobody has all of the information, so I appreciate you asking detailed questions, but there's a lot of subjectivity to this because we're kind of we have a concept. We want the

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boardwalk to be more active, a point of pride for our community, all of these things, but we don't know exactly what that looks like. And all this is really doing is just opening the door for us to have some options. And I think that it's going to be there's going to be some levers and some, you know, some things

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will work, some things won't. And um we'll know it when we see it. Um but this is going to just help open the door to start putting our toe in the water, so to speak. I think that's a good analogy. Um also to get the businesses, the local businesses to buy in, our local residents and the people that

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would um ideally benefit from this type of program. But I I do think it feels very nebulous right now and it's because it is and it's because we don't know what's going to work and what exactly that's going to look like. Um but I appreciate the effort that's been put into it and the good question so far.

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Miss Golding, >> thank you. I apologize for the revisit, but as comments are made, it brings up some things. And I just want to say that I concur with Mr. Horn. When I was reading this, I did it did feel like the cart before the horse as well for me

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too. But I also appreciate what the mayor's saying about okay, as long as we and I agree with Mr. Horn, it's a gentle opening of the door. I I just I can't support five days a week either, like

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what he said. Um, the other thing that I kind of brought up before but wanted to make sure I touched on I, you know, my biggest concern is our brickandmortar businesses because we know that they have way more expenses than these small

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vendors have, right? And so my concern is that we want to focus on things on the boardwalk that are not directly competing with our brickandmortar businesses because we we want to have that that diversity I think of things

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that for people to to enjoy, right? Um and keeping you be very very sensitive to our brick and mortar businesses. Um, and then that means our one-year followup or whenever we I guess it's one year we

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will do a follow-up on this >> as it's written now, but that doesn't mean that, you know, at month four or five, we couldn't decide, you know what, six months is appropriate and we need to come to a briefing at month six and just give an update. Um, we're very flexible on that. >> And I believe you said that at that time

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when we do the followup that we will reach out to the businesses. Yes, >> we will reach out to the residents because I think >> that's going to be it's going to be super important once we've had an opportunity to give it to give it some

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people have an opportunity to experience it and then >> make sure that we get that feedback. But I just want to make sure that that's that's very that's the plan. >> Yes. I think when we get to that one year mark or if it's deemed sooner than that um whenever that occurs, I think

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the most valuable asset's going to be having the business and resident feedback on what's going to work. You know, we can see something on paper and think it's going to work and we can be out there and think it's going to work. Um but we're not going to fully understand the pros and cons of it unless we have that feedback. So, we will reach out and start conducting um

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information gathering unlike this where we're doing a survey on the back end. Uh for the one-year mark, a survey will not be done on the back end. It will be done well in advance of that. >> Okay. Okay, thank you, Mr. Wagner. >> Forgive the revisit. Um, but with

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councelor Horn's comments, it did bring up there was a point that kind of came to mind that I don't think was made clear enough. So, and that is that the business owners, the brickandmortar owners actually have, if they choose to, exclusive rights to actually have

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something in front of their location. >> Yes. So, um, so any of those businesses could extend out into the boardwalk and they don't have to compete with anyone else because it's their property. So, they don't have to give anyone else permission. >> Y, >> so this, as we discussed, um, I believe

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last week in the council briefing around making some of the changes in the land development code around simplifying some of the outdoor products that are allowed out there. This would really kind of in full scale allow a business owner. Um, so the place I buy all my swim trunks,

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all my baggies is there. They could have a display um if they put >> As long as they got a permit. >> Yes. If they had the permit. >> Yes. >> And give themselves a competitive advantage to everybody else. So there there is a there is a way to look at this very positively or potentially

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positively for the business owners as well. >> Yeah, absolutely. >> Okay. I just want to make sure that because I don't think we I don't think we focused on that as much. We should >> I think that was a great point. Thank you, Mr. Wagner. Mr. Waters. >> Thank you, Mayor. And um let me just

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just crystallize my what's really on my heart. Um, like with the food truck program, I am very glad to see the guard rails on it of once a quarter. And I would like to to see this move forward, but I would

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like to see some kind of concrete number either one per week, one per month or something other than just hoping there will be a guard rail. If anyone else is in favor of that, please make your feelings known.

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Mr. Sutton. Um, so I generally agree with all my colleagues and I think that's the beauty of having a pilot program and that uh we can dissolve it or modify it um and if

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we decide that um to Councilman Wilders's point there, if we decide moving forward once it becomes something more than a pilot program that um those guard rails are no more than two days a week or whatever the case may be or in particular days and I think we can

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define it then and um you know decide what makes what makes the most sense. So um I appreciate the comments from the business owner certainly and I I would consider that to be uh paramount and you know our our consideration of you know

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making this more permanent down the road because we certainly don't want uh you guys to be negatively impacted. Thank you, Mr. Jansen. >> If there's um no other further uh questions, then I'll go ahead and move towards the motion. I do want to make

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one comment before I do that. Um to just to echo what uh council member um Sutton said that the fact that we have a pilot program is important and that does it does kind of put the guard rails in place in of itself. Um the fact that we have that and we can revisit it or

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address it anytime we need to and I've been through uh been to many cities throughout the the state of Florida that that have boardwalks that have brick and mortar and sidewalk vendors on them and they're very successful. So I know it it can happen. The question is how does it happen and how does it happen for our

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community? So, um that being said, I want to make a motion to approve the updates and modifications that uh Miss Mobs provided to us. Can you do it as an amendment? Can you move to amend

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>> to amend to amend the u the resolution as um Miss Mobs presented it >> with regards to food trucks and small vendor insurance? >> Yes. >> So this was the original I'm sorry

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>> I don't have >> we have a motion to amend. Do we have a second? I think we're going to do that if if it gets a second >> second. Okay, we have a motion to amend and a second. Miss Moss, will you clarify those amendment or that? >> Yes. Um the section regarding mobile

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food vending that is just um not inclusive of food trucks at this time. That is pop-up stands, things that are not going to require grease traps and fire um inspection. So again, sandwiches, ice creams, smallcale food vending. And then in the section, I believe it was page three, section G on

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insurance, we had um the next to last sentence references they're going to have to have a minimum of $2 million coverage. That is the coverage we require for our larger scale events, and that's just not realistic for a single vendor. So, we will require they have vendor insurance, but it will not be to that scale.

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>> Yes, those are bad. >> Mr. Jansen, your lights on. Did you? >> No. Okay. >> Okay. Okay. So, we have a motion to amend uh with regards to food trucks and the spawn vendor insurance. Are there any questions on the amendment? Um a vote yes is to accept those changes,

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which would be to not allow food trucks as part of this program and to um make the insurance requirements more reflective of the small vendors which we're seeking. Mr. board. >> Say the brick and mortar wants to extend

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out, do they have to have a separate insurance policy for being on the boardwalk? >> My excuse me, my understanding, and David, feel free to chime in, is because they're an existing brick and mortar, it would almost act more as an extension of their premise. Um, so no, they would not be bound to the same insurance

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requirements because they would just be extending their normal operations and their normal insurance coverage. Let me just add to that. They they should always check with their own insurance company, but my understanding would be if it's on their own property, they would be covered, >> but they should always >> verify that independently of their

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company. >> Okay, Madame Clerk, roll call on the amendment. >> Council member Waters, >> yes. >> Council member Golding, >> yes. >> Council member Horn, >> yes. >> Council member Jansen, >> yes. >> Council member Sutton, >> yes. >> Council member Wagner,

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>> yes. >> Mayor Hoffman, >> yes. Motion carries. Um, back to the original motion as amended. Any other discussion? Madame Clerk, roll call. >> Council member Golding, >> yes. >> Council member Horn, >> yes.

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>> Council member Jansen, >> yes. >> Council member Sutton, >> yes. >> Council member Wagner, >> yes. >> Council member Waters, >> yes. >> Mayor Hoffman, >> yes. Motion carries. U, thank you, Miss Miles, for getting us to this point. We

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look forward to uh hearing how it goes. All right, moving on to ordinances. We have the um first reading of the uh so-called food truck rally ordinance, and I will turn it over to our city attorney, Mr. Migot.

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>> Thank you, Mayor. Since our meeting two weeks ago, um some outreach was was made to to local businesses. Um and you all have been provided uh responses on that on those outreaches comments from local

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businesses both pro and con. Uh nothing else has has changed with this. I do want to note just to clarify that I believe we're having a briefing a week from tonight to talk about a similar issue but that is not part of this ordinance right now. That'll be a separate uh issue that has been

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discussed recently. So, just to clarify and avoid confusion, um I don't believe there hasn't been any other changes and I'd be happy to answer any questions or otherwise respond to anything. >> Thank you, Madam Clerk. Will you read the ordinance by title, please?

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An ordinance of the city of Jacksonville Beach, Florida, amending chapter 12, streets, food, and food products, by creating section 12-34, establishing a food truck rally pilot program in the central business

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district, providing for repeal of conflicting ordinances, separability, codification, and an effective date. >> Thank you, Madam Clerk. This ordinance is before the council for a public hearing and consideration on its first reading. I will now open the public

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hearing on ordinance number 2026-8234. We do not have any public comment cards on this item. Would anyone from the public wish to speak for or against this ordinance? Seeing none, the public hearing is closed. Can I have a motion? I move we

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approve ordinance number 2026-8234 on the first reading amending chapter 12 streets food and food products by creating sections section 12-34 establishing a food truck rally pilot program in the central business district

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and schedule a second reading for May 4th 2026 >> second we have a motion and a second council discussion Mr. Wowers. >> Thank you, Madame Mayor. I'm not sure if I should ask this question to our

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capable city attorney or our excellent city manager. I was just curious, when it comes to procedure, are we supposed to read emails into the record for people uh who have spoken on this matter? >> Um, I I'll address that. So

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you you're welcome to to do what you want as as your role as a city council member. Um legally when that becomes a factor more so is when we're when we have a quasi judicial item in front of us. This is not a quasi judicial item. Um in that case the emails would be

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considered uh exparte communication. Um so they are not to be uh relied upon as evidence uh if they don't bring public comment at the meeting. But that's not the situation here. So it it's it's your discretion uh how you want to raise that issue during your turn to speak on this

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matter. >> No, thank you David because yeah it's my understanding I get the board of adjustment meetings they are supposed to do that is am I correct in saying that variances and so forth >> those those are quasi judicial items. So

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um now emails I'm going off on a little bit of tangent but let me try to succinctly answer your question. um emails to a quasi judicial board should not be used in by that board for making their decision because the applicant does not have a chance to

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cross-examine or or otherwise refute that information. But again, that's not the case here. Um >> okay, >> the emails are provided to you, but they um for your information, but they're not evidence you can rely on in those sorts of matters for board of adjustment, planning commission, and you all when

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you do sit as a quasi judicial board. Again, one more time, this is not that type of matter. >> Okay. So, perhaps I was mistaken about that and we can revisit that on our own time regarding the board of adjustment. But I just would like to share with my

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colleagues. I think it would be helpful if some of the folks who we received emails from were aware that this is only once a quarter. I'm not sure that they really understand that. So, it's not this big giant that's going to be in,

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you know, taking their business every day or every week or anything. So, that's just a suggestion. Thank you. >> I can I think you probably saw the email that I originally sent to the downtown business owners and I tried very hard

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not to um put anything that was leading or trying to convince them one way or the other. and instead I just put the um I think I put the memo as well as a link to the information for both this and the boardwalk activation. So I tried very hard to stay um neutral and certainly um

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any questions uh that were directed to Mr. Wagner um he could give them those answers. Miss Golding. >> Um first of all I want to thank you mayor for sending that email to the businesses because um that's what we need to be doing. Yeah.

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Thank you so much for doing that. Um, I did I did want to mention that I I do have, you know, I have to say because of the history of the food truck concerns and the brickandmortar restaurants, the things that they said years ago when the

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food truck ordinance came up. uh the concerns that were raised about, you know, the things that they have to do, the hoops they have to jump through and and how they're they have concerns how this will impact their business. it it's

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it's something that was mentioned in the emails that were shared with you and I appreciate you sharing those with us and I definitely have to say that I have some hesitancy with moving forward with something like this because I I don't

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like the thought of um doing anything that could negatively impact our brickandmortar businesses and in particular um Mr. Dohy um he said he believes it's quite unfair to brick and

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mortar restaurants who are already having to deal with problems such as current downward economic trends, unfavorable news reports about the beaches, less late night food tra foot foot traffic, you know. So

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I'm I'm just I'm just saying that some of the things that were that were brought up are the concerns that we heard. several years ago and so I'm definitely I'm gonna I'm not sure that I can support this.

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>> Mr. Jansen. >> Yeah, I'm going to just echo what um what we said on the uh the boardwalk activation project. Uh we're kind of in the same boat here. It's a pilot program and kind of echo what Mr. Wer says. It's a quarterly thing, not a not every day

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of the week and every day of the year. So, um, once again, the guardrails are in place. We give it a shot and we see how it works or if it doesn't work. Um, and we have to be as a council a little bit exploratory when it comes to, you

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know, activating our downtown. Um, if you do nothing, you get nothing. So, let's let's put it to work and let's see if it works or if it doesn't work. And if it doesn't, we come back in front of the council and we and we reject it. >> Mr. Wagner.

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>> Yeah. just to kind of share the at least the complete picture of yeses and nos and one of the yeses I'm gonna say is in the room so I sure hope he said yes but uh so uh Duncan Tilka who is uh as you

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all know a family represents a family that has a lot of businesses here at the at the beach and very active um personally went out and talked to a bunch of different businesses and then he wrote us up a summary of that and sent it to us that we have that and I'm going to go through those and that's

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Bill Stevens at Beachside, Jamie Mullins at Best Western, uh Jason Reynolds, Bricks Ritz, and to a lesser extent the lemon bar. Not that it's not a fabulous little place, it's just not right here. Um Stephen Kel, uh the Tavern and the

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Wreck, uh Greg SG, is that I hope that's right. It's close. It's all right letters. Um Salt Life and the Surfer. Um, Robert Tilka, Mangoes, Lies, the entire oceanfront building, Hopter,

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uh, and the and the the vacant lot at there there in the, uh, central business district stated yes. Gary, I hope you said yes because Duncan said that he spoke to you and your sons uh, and that the skate and surf shop in the sea shell

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and coral shops was yes. and Curtis Loftess. >> Uh, did Duncan Ta talk to you about the food truck or your kids? >> So, yeah. And then, uh, Curtis Loftess, who

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is head of deck the chairs, was a yes and a yes. So, very excited about that. We received I received a phone call as a result of the mayor's uh outreach from uh a friend of many councils, Fernando Messa, who wanted to express his support

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for this and thought it was had some really great opportunities to at least try something new and different. And then from these pizza lunches and Rita's uh we had concerns raised. Um, so what we're going to do is in between

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now and uh if it approves tonight, then between now and the second reading, if it doesn't get approved tonight anyways, we'll still do this. Duncan has volunteered to reach out and have a discussion with these businesses so that they can understand it because to your point Sandy, we know so much more today

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than we knew four years ago. Was it four years ago when we orig >> 12 years ago? So 12 years ago when we originally when we originally passed this >> it was 2000. >> Yeah. And today we know a lot more about the impact of these type of things to

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the community and all of the research that's been done and studied shows that it activates the uh neighboring restaurants but and businesses at about 10 to 15% increased foot traffic. And so the fact that those businesses may or may not understand that with new data is

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an opportunity and Duncan has volunteered to go educate them on that doesn't mean they're going to change their point of view, but they'll at least get to hear from a business owner, not somebody that sits on the Dis and uh and get to hear an alternative point of view. So to your point, we'll continue to communicate and educate um

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the folks that have decided to weigh in. And if there's others, I'm sure you'd be willing to do that as well. Thank you, Mr. Wagner. I think um that leg work is really important and I I do the echoes of that original argument against food trucks uh certainly came

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through, but I do also feel just like with the boardwalk activations really limited. Um I honestly and maybe this they'll prove me wrong, I'd be shocked if this even happened four times a year. Um, so, you know, we'll see how it goes, but I do

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think that this is another kind of toe in the water of doing something creative in our downtown area that will increase some walkability and some interest um, downtown. So, I do um, support gently walking towards it. I will say um

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I had someone who did not wish for me to share their business name, but for both of these, the boardwalk activation as well as the food truck rally, trash is a huge concern. I think it's a concern we all share, but it's certainly something that our local business owners, if they have a parking lot, they're picking up

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trash after um special events all the time. Um, and so the people that are creating the trash, the mobile food vendors in this case, need to be very, very responsible and held accountable um, for picking up that trash. So, I think that's something that we um, can all agree is something we should keep an

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eye on. Any other questions or comments on this ordinance? Madam Clerk, roll call. >> Council member Horn, >> yes. >> Council member Jansen, >> yes. >> Council member Sutton, >> yes. >> Council member Wagner, >> yes. Council member Waters, >> yes.

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>> Council member Golding, >> no. >> Mayor Hoffman, >> yes. Motion carries. We will have the second reading on that one on May 4th. Um, ordinance B. This is our second hearing. I don't know if Do you have an update on this one?

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>> Uh, I do not. Just to answer any questions if there are any. >> Great. Madam clerk, will you read the ordinance by title, please? An ordinance of the city of Jacksonville Beach, Florida, holding ordinance number 4512,1946 and sections 7-1 and 7-2 of the city

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code of ordinances in obeyance in their entirety, authorizing the establishment of a pilot program to allow activation and events on the boardwalk from Beach Boulevard to 6th Avenue North. providing for duration and expiration, providing for severability, scrier's errors, and

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an effective date. >> Thank you, Madam Clerk. This ordinance is before the council for a public hearing and consideration on its second reading. I will now open the public hearing on ordinance number 2026-8233. Uh we did have uh the speaker cards from Mr. Messer and Mr. Stevens. um they've

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already spoken, but we do have the floor open if anyone would like to speak in favor of or against this ordinance. Okay, seeing none, public hearing is closed. May I have a motion? I move we adopt ordinance number 2026-8233

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on the second reading holding ordinance number 45121946 and sections 71 and 72 city code ordinance in obeyance in their entirety and authorizing the establish establishment of a pilot program to allow activation of events on the

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boardwalk from Beach Boulevard to 6th Avenue North. >> Second. We have a motion and a second. Any further discussion on this item, Miss Golding? >> Thank you, Mayor. Um, I just wanted to follow up because in the the last meeting I brought this up and um

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to ex to perhaps explain it. I don't know if I explained it very well then, but I, you know, for some reason I just have this concern about, you know, the obeyance of the entire distance from the county line up, you

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know, north, right? Um, and so I reached out to the city manager and uh asked him, you know, can you help me understand, you know, why are we comfortable with, you know, doing the obeyance for the entire distance instead

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of carving it out for 6th Avenue North to Beach Boulevard? And just for the sake of everyone else, Mr. City attorney, did I say city manager? Yeah, I'm sorry. I'm city attorney. Mr. Migot, sorry. Um,

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could you please just explain to everyone why the city feels comfortable with moving forward with the advance for the entire length of >> Sure, I'd be happy to. There's already several other

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regulations that would um affect the ability to to develop um you know zoning, environmental regulations, permitting requirements, those are still all fully in effect. Um so what what you were proposing um does have even more

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teeth, if you will. Uh but then you get to the confusion of uh you know splitting certain old ordinances into different parts. Well, this part's still in effect, but this part's not not still in effect. And it just complicates things. And the the reality of in in

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reality any attempt to construct or operate um as a result of those sections of the code being held in abance outside beach the six uh it wouldn't be permitted under the existing regulatory frameworks. I'm just trying to avoid

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confusion with a almost 0% chance of any negative implications, if you will. I I there's there's no chance in in reality of those developments coming forward only because we're

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obeying we're holding 71 72 in a bayance. So, uh, if we start, um, you know, putting off certain sections of ordinances and and then others, there's there's confusion. There could be, uh, unforeseen,

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you know, complications. And it's just a a cleaner path to keep things smooth and and for people 15 years from now, you know, to to be able to look back and and be able to figure out what was done if if any further action, assuming we don't take any action. Just a cleaner way to

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do it is my opinion. So I yeah I just I just wanted that assurance because I you know I could envision somebody say up in Northjack Beach in my district coming to the city and saying that they

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wanted to construct something in that in that area and now the with the surveillance or would they be able to do that or you know with the with operating a business and that and and you you know you've assured me that that would not be

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possible. ible and so I do appreciate that because I just want to make sure that we we do keep it confined to beach to 6th Avenue North. So, thank you for that explanation. >> Thank you. I'm sorry, Mr. Messer. The public hearing is closed on this item.

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Any other comments from council? Madame Clerk, roll call. >> Council member Jansen, >> yes. >> Council member Setman, >> yes. >> Council member Wagner, >> yes. Council member Waters, >> yes. >> Council member Golding, >> yes. >> Council member Horn, >> yes.

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>> Mayor Hoffman, >> yes. Motion carries. Our final ordinance. Mr. Fatitis, I'm so sorry. I was supposed to get back to your item at city manager new business. I apologize. You've had to sit here this and Mr. Hughes sorry.

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We're going to get through the hen one, I think, pretty quickly. I forgot to come up with some good puns. Anybody? Um, okay. We're on our second reading of ordinance um C and I don't think we need a staff update, but we will go ahead and have the ordinance read by title,

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please. An ordinance of the city of Jacksonville Beach, Florida, amending chapter 5, animals, article 4, hen regulation, section 5-83, permitted zoning locations to allow backyard hens to be kept at schools and

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nonprofit organizations within single and multif family residential zoning districts. Providing for legislative findings, repeal of conflicting ordinances severability scrier's errors, cotification, and an effective date.

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Thank you. This ordinance is before the council for a public hearing and consideration on its second reading. I will now open the public hearing on ordinance number 2026-8235. I do not have any speaker cards on this item. Would any member of the public like to speak? Come on up.

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All right. Just give us your name and address and you'll have three minutes to address the council on this ordinance. >> Yes, ma'am. Um, Dr. Brusa, Mark, Charlotte Court, 1511, Jacksonville Beach. Um, we can not even enforce

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enrollment caps on private schools in residential areas. We can't enforce conditions on these schools. We're going to let farm animals in a residential area. I just seems ridiculous to me. Um,

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and that the city would even entertain this. So that's all. Thank you. >> Thank you, Mr. Bruska. Any other members of the public wish to speak? Hearing is closed. May I have a motion? >> I move we adopt ordinance number 2026-8235

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on second reading amending chapter 5, animals of the city code of ordinances to allow backyard hens at public and private schools and residential zoning districts. >> Second. We have a motion and a second. Any discussion? Mr. Sutton.

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Thank you, mayor. Um, so the motion that Councilman Jansen just read um left off um nonprofit organizations. Is that intentional or not? I think I think Miss

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I think the city clerk included it in the ordinance, but it's not in the motion. And I didn't know I I I I was we didn't have minutes from the prior meeting tonight. So I couldn't recall if we struck that or not. I don't recall striking it, but

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>> we did not. >> That was just how it was entered by title on the agenda. So when Mr. Jansen reads the motion, it's how it is on written on the agenda. Um but it hasn't been removed from the ordinance.

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>> Yes, Mr. City Attorney. Let me just add and I'll just um echo what the city clerk just said that the the language in the ordinance does allow it on um at the nonprofits. So if if we put everything in titles, the titles would be hundreds

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of words. Uh so the titles are a fair summary um and and the what the the case law requires is just a fair succinct summary. So I think the title is sufficient. The language is in the ordinance so that would be included. >> That's fine. My concern was it was in

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the in there on our prior on the first reading and it's not in there to that. So that was the confusion. I didn't know if we had struck it. The way it read last time was at public and private schools and nonprofit organizations. So just I was just clarifying

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>> the city manager would like to speak. >> Yeah. Ju just to clarify for the council and anyone who may be watching at home, the way we have it worded within the ordinance is that it's nonprofits with community gardens. So, it's not every nonprofit within the city. You must have a community garden in order in order to

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participate. >> Um, and as I mentioned at the first reading, I continue um I continue to have concerns with this as it specifically as it relates to the private schools and with the um

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nonprofits that have community gardens. So, >> Mr. Horn Um the listing here is it says five feet is the setback. Is that the five is that the current setback in these areas? I didn't

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have a chance to look it up. It just popped in my head. So I wanted to ask. I believe that is correct. And for clarification purposes in regards to the issue that was brought up earlier, currently in those in areas

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that are zoned RS1, RS2, JRS1, which I think the majority of our schools are located in currently chicken coops are allowed with per correct. So they are currently allowed in these areas. So if anybody's neighbor wanted to have one, they could

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be right there. And obviously that there are and we still have our again saying this for the purposes of those who may not be here that we do have um rules in place in regards to if they become nuisance animals if there are

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problems etc etc etc. So um okay thank you. >> Thank you for those clarifications. Any other questions or comments? Madam clerk roll call. >> Council member Sutton. >> No. >> Council member Wagner. >> Yes. Council member Wowers, >> yes.

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>> Council member Balding, >> yes. >> Council member Horn, >> yes. >> Council member Jansen, >> yes. >> Mayor Hoffman, >> yes. Motion carries. Going back to the item that was pulled from the consent agenda that I forgot to do under city manager new business and I

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owe Jason a milkshake. Uh we will have an update on the agreement between the supervisor elections and city of Jacksonville Beach. >> Good evening, mayor and council. Jason Fatitis Parks and Recreation. Um, so this item we are asking council to approve an agreement with the Dubar

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County Supervisor of Elections to use the community center at South Beach Park as an early voting precinct. Um there was some discrepancy as the council member Golding pointed out to us

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this morning in the language referring to when the equipment could be received at the facility. We did confer with the supervisor of elections and corrected that and the city clerk has the corrected copy for signature if approved

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by council tonight. Thank you. Can I have a motion? >> I move we approve an agreement between the Duval County Supervisor of Elections and the City of Jacksonville Beach for the use of the community center in Exhibition Hall as an early voting site.

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>> Second. We have a motion and a second and I just want to give a little more background and thank you Mr. Fatitis for your work um with the supervisor of elections office on this possibility. Um, and it's driven mainly by the fact that the early voting site at the Neptune Beach Library is one of the

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busiest routinely um, in the county. And for those of us who are in Jackson Beach, we like to stay in our little circle here. So, uh, he and I talked about um, other options for uh, location and the community center um, really fit

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the bill of everything that they're required to provide. Um, so, uh, I know it's going to be a real convenience for our um South Jacksonville Beach and really anybody who's driving down South Beach Parkway, you know, to go to work or to come home. So, I think it'll be, um,

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hopefully something that drives even more um, early voting turnout. So, really appreciate the efforts there, Miss Golding. >> Thank you. And I just I do appreciate you guys um like humoring me on this, but I just wanted to make sure and I do appreciate you following up with the

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supervisor of elections, but I wanted to make sure that the change was made before we approved it. And so I do appreciate that. Thank you so much. And thank you for um working on giving us another option for early voting. I appreciate that.

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It's not any closer for me. I think it's probably I'm just as close to the Neptune Beach Library as I am to the community center, but um but I think it's a great idea. Thank you. >> Any other questions or comments? Madam Clerk, roll call. >> Council member Wagner,

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>> yes. >> Council member Wowers, >> yes. >> Council member Golding, >> yes. >> Council member Horn, >> yes. >> Council member Jansen, >> yes. >> Council member Sutton, >> yes. >> Mayor Hoffman, >> yes. Motion carries. Can I have a motion to adjurnn? >> I move to adjurnn. Second. All in favor

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signify by saying I. I.