I'd like to call the uh community redevelopment agency workshop meeting uh to order. This is Wednesday, April what is it? 16th, 2026, and it's uh 3 p.m. We've got a lengthy agenda this afternoon. So, I really want to get this
underway. Um but uh if uh the clerk would call the role, please. >> Gard Pat here. Ron Whittington, >> Megan Edwards >> here, >> Dad Mosley >> here, >> Kevin Meyers >> here,
>> Sydney Talcott >> here, >> Marcus Campy. >> Okay, thank you. Um, we have a quorum, so we'll uh continue. And the uh main item of our uh session this afternoon is really to discuss the first street uh
traffic uh study and report as well as um thoughts and conversations about First Street. Taylor, I'll u let you guide us a little bit because I know you've been heavily involved with analyzing and reviewing the report that had been presented to
staff. So, if you could give us a little bit of an overview of all of that. >> So, we can talk a little about um at least for my memo is a pretty lengthy memo. Mine aren't normally three two and a half pages long. But um what we really
found was there was a lot of fantastic data in this report. Each intersection had gosh over 80 pages in that PowerPoint we were given. So about 160 plus pages of information of data collection of video footage of what were
considered near misses. Um, I'll be very honest, those of us that had the privilege of seeing the video, it was a lot of Friday, Saturday evening, 910 p.m., you know, just kind of wandering about. Um
what was very interesting is, you know, we've kind of all been looking at this, myself included, um from a perspective of there's no delineation and it's confusing and it's chaotic and it's kind
of wonky. And when we got the numbers back, the first thing that really stood out the most um was there were no major safety issues. Um I think initially we
were trying to solve the problem of making First Street more safe and the first kind of like gut punch when we were looking at it, oh okay, so we're solving an imaginary problem uh because it is safe. uh the numbers prove it's safe and then the the first people that
we shared the data with was our police department um I actually had some help and we worked together with the consultants um that put together the data to give them our crash incident report and how many years back forgive me did we go in that traffic data with
the crashes we went back to 20 what was that 18 maybe >> I think so >> and there was like 10 if that 10 12 incidents but none of them had any major it was all very very minor incidents. Um, so that was a bit of a wakeup call
honestly. So we really started diving deeper into that and okay well we're still seeing a problem where we're having pedestrian activity and it's not necessarily where it's designed to to be. So we're like okay is that you know still a problem? And you know, we're
we're seeing a lot of drivers, pedestrians, cyclists, EVs, scooters, golf carts, they're all kind of mixing and mangling. Um, so my my wheels were already kind of spinning like, okay, how are we going to really look at this? So we had an internal meeting. It was
myself, uh, the director of planning, administration, our police department, parks and recreation. We all sat down and, you know, our police department said, "Listen, um, it's going to come as a shock, but it works. First Street does what it's supposed to do." Because
people don't necessarily know the traffic pattern. There isn't delineation like your traditional road where you've got asphalt, you've got a yellow or a white line, you've got a curb, you've got a big sidewalk. when people don't necessarily
have those designated lanes and designated spaces where they're supposed to be going and they can kind of I think a lot of people are guilty of it. You know, you get on Interstate 95 and you just kind of hit cruise and go and you don't really have to put a lot of thought into what you're doing because you know exactly what your street
markings are. You know where you're supposed to be. First Street does the opposite of that. It engages the driver and it forces people to kind of slow down and try to figure out where they're supposed to be. Is this road? is it sidewalk? Um, and it kind of creates a natural
interaction between the pedestrian and the motor vehicle user. Um, so this was all very eye opening um because this was an angle that we had never really thought of before and it really kind of
changed our perspective internally. Um, that all to say, just kind of for information purposes to kind of file in the back of your mind, uh, the TPO is still conducting a major bike pedestrian study. Gosh, I believe actually it's
from county line almost all the way up to the end of the beach communities, but it's all of First Street. um this small chunk of these six blocks obviously is not going to be a part of whatever that recommendation is going to be because it's probably doesn't need to be because this small six block section in downtown Jacksonville Beach isn't going to be
like you know further down in the southern part of um First Street. So we kind of started looking at you know okay is this is this standard is this something that other people do and it is it's actually done quite intentionally.
It actually came out of uh Germany, a traffic engineer who said when you basically said, you know, when you create roads for cars, you're telling the cars, this is your space. This is your domain. You do what you want. And when you want to have a walkable downtown, you don't need to create a
space that cars feel like they rule the area. Um, and so I'm happy to, if you guys want, it's up to you, answer questions related to the memo and then we can kind of jump into PowerPoint with like a short two, three minute video or we can dive into the PowerPoint and then
kind of ask questions and have a broader discussion then. Happy to >> I'm sorry. Let's just open it up for a minute and see if there are any questions, you know, based on the uh the comments that you've made so far. So, I'll open it up to the board. column for
any thoughts, considerations. Anybody not um go ahead. A couple of things um in the larger sense, not just specific to this study, but certainly including this study and
any um eventual work that is going to have to be done on First Street just because of the nature of the papers and everything else. Um, I think we really need to hang on to a holistic approach to First Street and the Seawwalk Pavilion area and also the first part of
the boardwalk because for different sorts of events and different kinds of situations, those could be operated as different segmented units together >> as opposed to considered separately for different things. Um, part of that is,
you know, something we touched on before, I think, in a joint city council workshop, which is there could well be reasons from time to time to make first street pedestrian only in certain events and certain times in certain cases. if
the guys behind you could figure out how to divert the traffic. Um, it also could make sense and I really don't have an opinion, but does one way work? I know our police department has had some thoughts on that. Or does one way work
for just a couple of blocks? I don't know. The other thing is the irregular openings that are being used for parking that shouldn't be. That's that's a problem. And obviously the dumpsters that are out there in the middle of the sidewalk encroaching on the street right
away on a regular basis from the hotel. There were three there were four out there the other day when I went by that that just ain't cute. I don't know if there's really a solution to that, but it's something that needs some thought from somebody because four in a row is
it's just wild. It was like >> Could it have been their pickup day by chance? >> It could have been. It could have been, but they were there when I went by. They were there when I went by. Two hours later, I wasn't hanging out 247. >> Fair. >> But, um, you know, they need to see what
they can do to minimize that. >> Sure. >> That one is tricky, the dumpsters, because, you know, when I leave my house on Wednesday morning, that's my trash pickup day. I put my trash out at >> 6:30 a.m. and when I get home at 5, I roll it back up, you know. So, if their trash is that day, it may be a few hour
period that their dumpsters are going to be out there. something we need to be mindful of. And if it's, you know, somebody has a dumpster out at 8 am on a Wednesday and then it's Thursday at noon and it's still sitting out there, then that's when we need to. >> And the other issue we're dealing with
is the um and I'm sure they were done by right, but the significant overhangs between Second and Third and Third Street and they're out well over the public rideway. I don't know if there's anything that could ever be done about them, but um on both sides of the street
there's structures out all the way curve elevated up so people can walk under them, but that really um affects what can eventually be done with First Street as far as integrating it when the time come. >> Overhangs off of buildings. >> Yeah.
>> I mean, yeah, at this point if it's constructed, it was permitted. So, >> like I said, it's probably permitted, but it really does restrict what you can do with that rideway because you can't use it for anything with pedestrians and sidewalk traffic. >> Um,
that really is pretty much my list. I'm still curious about the stretch of walkway that's on right behind the hook at South Beach all the way to First. I I really don't know how big that rightway is or it's pretty well shrubby and cracked up
and neglected, but that's a nice connector from the foot of beach all the way over that nice parking at the foot of first and with the restaurant there and everything else is something that probably needs a nudge. >> It's peripheral today. That's my list.
Thank you. >> I say this is very loud. >> You'll get used to it. >> It feels so loud. It is. >> I was going to say it feels very loud. Uh first I think it's good that we're have we actually have some data to support there's no current issues right that require any immediate remedial
immediate remedial efforts. Um, I would suspect, right, we'll get into the PowerPoint, but I suspect it doesn't take into account any of the improvements or anything that we're going to do to Leam Plaza or potentially, right, that would come out of the P3 project, right? Anything I would assume we may have to redo this
again depending on, right, what the P3 project looks like, does that require, where's the entrance going to be, is there going to be parking, right? So, I think this concern >> Yeah, I will say that one we won't have. I mean, yes, there hopefully ideally be a lot more you know people visiting.
However, it is written into that that you cannot have ingress or egress running first. >> There will not be additional ingress. >> Okay. So that's impossible for them to so that should remain the same. >> Okay, fair enough. Thank you. >> Yep. >> Yeah. Uh I just maybe somewhat similar
to uh Megan's note. Um, I I think that uh it sounds like the outcome of this study was that there are no serious problems um in terms of safety. Um, and
I I appreciated that you led with defining clarifying the ultimate problem that we're trying to solve. And it and I I know we'll we'll get into this with the report, but it sounds like um the the perceived chaos is in fact by
design. Yeah. And is intentional. Um, and so I think that if there are if if uh there are issues with aesthetics or um you know trash pickup times or what
have you, like that is a separate conversation to have. And so I think that just as we move forward with the presentation and subsequent discussion that we don't conflate uh the issues and that um you know if this ultimately if
if we engaged in this study to analyze safety um and the outcome is that we're all good. It is there are no safety concerns then yeah awesome. Um and then if you know there are specific um
traffic flow patterns that we're hearing from the community are problematic or if there are aesthetic concerns then let's have those conversations. But um I just my yeah >> I and and I think that's a really good
point and it's something that towards somewhere towards the end um of this memo you know it's it's one of the reasons I kind of added that additional paragraph you know that I do think there are two yes it's all first street I think there are two very distinct and
very separate I don't want to say issues because they're not necessarily issues but two very distinct uh things at hand so one of the number One things and and I would say the most important was is First Street even safe? Can people safely walk and cars safely drive and
bicycles safely bike? The study, the video footage and I think some of the best data we got from our police department was that yes, that is good to go. Two thumbs up. You are safe. Um I was also shocked. I think I literally
like mouth a gape in a meeting with the police department that Second Street is actually far worse than First Street. And I was like, I'm sorry, what? We just did a Hold on. Second Street and and that's where we have more accidents,
higher speed, and we've had a fatal accident in the last few years on Second Street, a couple of them. And you know, it was it's just so I'm I'm honestly kind of nerding out a little bit, but I'm thrilled we did this because it was so fascinating to truly learn that
perception is so much of what is going on with First Street. It's a perceived problem because, you know, again, like I said, I'm very guilty of it as well of thinking, okay, well, yeah, it doesn't make sense. It doesn't look like a traditional road, so it can't be safe. Um, and it's the exact opposite of that. And the kind of other side of that coin,
though, is aesthetics. Yes, they're still papavers. Yes, they're damaged. As we have all learned, when you get damaged papers and we replace them, they will never match ever again. And then 5, 10, 15 years into it, it kind of looks like a game of Tetris where you just
kind of got some random blocks stacked and they're all different colors and it's no one's no one's to necessarily blame or no one's at fault. I mean, we literally just cannot reproduce a 10-year aed red color paper with a brand new one. they're never going to look the
same. Um, so I think a separate conversation and something to start considering in the future is, you know, yes, how are we going to fix the capital improvement side of this and is there going to be something redone to aesthetically improve, but from a safety perspective, um, we're we're looking
pretty good on First Street. >> Just a couple quick thoughts. Um, you know, when I started looking at this, I started writing down the number of different items that have hit me over the last couple years that I've driven up and down First Street, but when I go back and I take a look at them again,
they tend to be more aesthetic issues. They're not specifically safety issues. And I think the report obviously confirms that that from a safety standpoint, First Street looks and works the way it was originally
designed. Question is, are we comfortable with that? Um, I've driven streets like that in Europe. And I'll tell you, it's very confusing and it's very disconcerting to be on a street where you don't know where a bicyclist
is going or a pedestrian is going and you're trying to get your vehicle from point A to point B. Um I don't know of any location within Florida that has a similar setup. >> Stay tuned. >> I'm sorry. >> I said stay tuned. You will.
>> Yeah. Well, it's just that, you know, so so the challenge of trying to educate people and help them understand how to how to use that is uh is a little bit challenging because we have such a large influx of tourists. If it's just the
residents, that's one thing and I could understand that we could probably educate them. But when it comes to the tourist side, whole different ball game. And they get very confused very quickly, >> especially when you're older like me. And you start to get on these streets and you don't have all the signs that
you need. >> Not just you, it's me, too. Sometimes I even catch myself kind of driving real slow when I'm going somewhere on first. >> Yeah. But I I I would hope that as we continue our conversations based on what was just mentioned that we really take a
look at if Second Street is an issue, potentially an issue, we need to really think about Second Street along with what we're talking about for First Street and how all of this functions. First Street's challenging because it's
it has hotels and retail and so forth all along that strip roughly from beach up to 6th Avenue North and they're going to need to be served. You know, people are going to have to get to their hotels. The um garbage is going to have
to continue to be picked up. Uber drop off and pickup has to be considered. Um and then emergency vehicles and things to that extent. it becomes a challenge on how you make all of that work. But I would hope with a lot of good
conversation here that we can come to, you know, a conclusion or a direction that we all think is the the right way to proceed. But that's kind of what I read out of the report and the uh information that you provided us. And >> you know, I've got a long list of
aesthetic issues >> which are all valid though. I do I want to make sure I am, you know, clear. I'm not trying to um minimize that. Yeah, the pavers are working as they're intended. It doesn't necessarily mean that they're the prettiest things in the world. I think two things can be true at once. They can be functioning exactly as
they were intended. we can be doing the best with what we've got, which is, you know, old papavers and older infrastructure. uh it can still be safe while also knowing that in the near future, the next fiscal year or two, we really are going to have to have some conversations um and and frankly be very
cautious about how we do those improvements because I think for a long time what has been the assumption uh kind of floating around was when we did get to the capital project of First Street and kind of taking the pavers out and redoing something. Um it's always kind of been like, oh, we'll just put
asphalt in. And we've learned now that probably isn't smart. actually not probably it's not wise given what we know from how first street is with accidents compared to second street that is your traditional straight thorough affair asphalt straight down the middle two lanes um that's not going to be at
least not staff's recommendation I think all these gentlemen behind me would also agree that that would not be the recommendation to completely just asphalt first street and stripe it um so we're going to have to get creative you know we know that pavers are challenging to maintain and they're a headache.
Asphalt's not going to be the answer. It's also not really aesthetically nice. It doesn't really define that you're in a beautiful vibrant downtown. Uh so we're going to have to figure out something in the middle. Maybe it is treated concrete. Maybe it's stained concrete. Maybe it's sections of
pavers. Um I know Trevor's still here. Yeah. Um when we had to do the pure parking lot, we did the banding instead of having decorative pavers. There were different concrete treatments that we were able to do to kind of delineate different. So, there are definitely ways to redo First Street aesthetically, but
still maintain the safety that we have right now with our lovely little chaotic street. >> So, um, and there was something else, Gary, forgive me, that you touched on, and it is slipping my mind that I Oh, education. That was education. You
mentioned education. That was one thing that came up in our internal meeting. something I've now started talking with the communications team about which um you know they've been doing phenomenal on their communications and putting information out. Uh and I think the timing has kind of worked in our favor.
We are getting ready at the let me see April 11th council briefing. Um I believe the clerk is bringing brand standards and signage. That's Molly is bringing those to city council. So, city the city is doing their big citywide
signage and council is discussing that in April at a briefing. >> I'm sorry. You said the April briefing. >> Yeah, April. Gosh. >> Sorry. >> I wanted I was wanted to make sure I was with you. >> Thank you. I'm like, yeah, Gary, April
11th. What are you talking about? Four days ago. Uh, no. I apologize. >> I did. >> May 11th. Sorry, guys. It's been a weird week. um uh they're going to be talking about the citywide signage. That's kind of why we put our wayfinding signage on
hold to make sure what we did was going to ultimately complement what the city's going to do citywide. And I kind of said, well, this is obviously probably a great time because, you know, obviously you want to designate, okay, hey, you're in downtown, but maybe when you are entering these streets that are intended
to be unique in design, you have larger vibrant signs that are going to catch your eye say, you know, you are entering a shared space. pedestrian, vehicle, bicycle, all share this roadway. You know, obviously, I'm sure someone can make that sound a lot better than I just did, but something to that effect where
we are putting up signage. Um, but again, not too much because another thing we learned from the data is when you put up too many signs, again, you're making the road seem car friendly, not just pedestrian friendly. So, when there aren't a ton of signs up, people really do tend to slow down like,
"Okay, where am I going?" Like, what? There's >> Yeah. and and I appreciate what you're saying and I think u the thing we really need to do is sit down and take a look at it because I can show you a lot of examples >> where we've got a two-hour parking sign here and then in the front it says 15
minute of parking >> and then you look at the pa pattern and the pa pattern this is not continuous across the street there it looks like it's a pedestrian crosswalk but it doesn't really continue across the street so we're sending kind of
you know, confusing messages to uh to pedestrians and and it's it is a matter of cleaning that kind of thing up. Um but >> it's not a simple answer. I I ultimately we need to do some things from an
aesthetic standpoint with um with First Street and then obviously take a look at Second Street and see what we can do to address the issues that really came up from a safety standpoint for for Second Street, at least from from my perspective. >> Yeah. Um, and you know, I'd love to sit
down with you because I've got a number of photographs and uh other things that I can show you that are examples of what I was just talking about. And you know, as you get into the design of the streets, when I did my um drive along
with the police, the one thing that became very apparent at uh 1:30 in the morning, 2:30 in the morning is that the numbers of people congregating in the middle of the street, blocking traffic,
and then you've got Uber drivers, lift drivers trying to get through that, which creates even more congestion and problems. question is, does it make sense to find a spot that becomes an Uber drop off lift spot that's kind of
outside the you know the the first street area that would help that potential congestion >> um along by some of the u the bars there were quite a number of long lines of people standing to try to get into the
bars and when they it starts to push others out into the street to wander through as we design or take a look at a new uh concept. Do we provide space there for gathering of people that are trying to get into
the bars, but make sure that we provided the pedestrian space that's necessary for those that are continue to walk on by. just things that I slowly started to pick up on. Um, and obviously are worthy
of I think some consideration as we we look at the overall design here. >> Yeah. >> Yeah. >> Any other comments from anybody with that? You know, you wanted to go through your presentation. >> Yeah, if that's all right with
everybody. It's very short. I promise I won't make everyone sit through 40 slides or something crazy. Um, all right. So as we started diving into this, we realized that this is not new. We're not reinventing the wheel. Uh this is very common and actually Mr. Chairman
said it best. It started uh in Europe and this became a very common practice um in Europe. So Hans Monderman, he created this concept of shared streets. I swear up and down I was not going to put
the name the casual name of this program into the PowerPoint. So, if anyone wants to know, you can Google it. Um, I'm kidding. They they call them naked streets because they're meant to have nothing on them. Um, so again, you know, you remove traffic lights, signage,
crosswalks, lane markings, and even curbs. Everything is flat. And it kind of creates this environment where pedestrians, people on bikes, people in cars, they have to honestly organically interact and learn to react to one another without the traditional
parameters placed on them. And then I just we put this quote in here that all those signs are saying to cars. This is your space and we have organized your behavior. So as long as you behave this way, nothing can happen to you. And that is the wrong story. All
right. Technical difficulties. Jody, can you hit Wait, there it went. Sorry. Okay. So, there is a concept and it's called a werf. Uh, I am probably pronouncing that very uh American. I'm sure there's a better way to pronounce
that word. Um, and I will play a short clip on this for you guys. What is a wound? Roughly translated, it means living yard. The concept originated in Delft in the Netherlands
in the 1960s in response to cars being made the focal point after an economic boom. These cars caused traffic jams, accidents, and made roads unlivable. The Wuer are security islands that are built for residents, not for passing traffic
going from point A to point B. On conventional streets, most of the space is dedicated to cars, meaning you need to watch your children constantly. But that's not the case in the Wuerfan. In the Wuerfan, you can once again chat with your neighbors, play ball, make
music, sit on a bench, sit in a circle with friends, draw with chalk, cycle, eat outside. Here, people are more important than cars. Cars must adapt to pedestrian speed. That's how the streets
are designed. In the wound, space is reappropriated in a natural way. Traffic is more people friendly and coexists with soft mobility. Streets become public spaces again. The nerve has become a part of the
Netherlands DNA. It's a fascinating subject which is worth exploring. That's why we've created a free online course on the topic. Enjoy. >> All right. So, I know the video was a little goofy, but
it was a very, for me anyway, it was just a very simple, straightforward way of, you know, this isn't a new thing. This is a concept that's been around since the 1960s. And like I said in the video, it kind of happened where there were this big boom in these economies. And they were realizing, wait, our quaint streets that we enjoyed having
pedestrians dining outside and pushing a stroller and riding a bike are now being overran by cars. So, this actually became a real concept. Um something that was also very very interesting on the left hand side is depict. So this is basically if you're
standing and surfer the bar is here ocean would be over here. There's the metropolitan. This is what it was intended to look like. Um a street that is drivable. And this actually blew my mind. If you'll look right,
sorry. Right there, it is intentionally a couple of crosswalk bars and then wide open. Um, I always just thought and assumed that we had replaced pavers over time and that's why we were missing crosswalks, but it was very intentional by design. Uh, on the right hand side is
the original design and the plans of First Street. Um, this is the pure parking lot right there. That is the pier that never did become green space. So, please disregard that green space. Um, but again, all these kind of zigzags
and mismatched were part of the original design intent. And the reason being is it was supposed to be a shared street. uh to reference talking about Second Street at some point uh needing to come into play. If you look at this plan, actually originally, you can see right
here in these crosswalk sections, Second Street actually does have some different uh treatments on those crosswalks. So, a great example is in Florida, Water Street in downtown Tampa uh adopted this principle. And when they designed, I did
a lot of research into cities in Florida. There were others, but Water Street, I feel like, is a great example. And as someone who's actually been there on a Thursday night when they were doing Taste of Water Street and got to actually witness it firsthand in person, um what the revamp of the street looked
like, you do have li there aren't curbs, everything's flat. The restaurants are spilling out into the street. Uh they temporarily close portions of the street for different events and then the next morning you're awake and there are cars driving up and down the street headed to work and different activities. Um, so
again, it's got very wide sidewalks, but the whole space is shared and when it needs to be, it can be a hub for pedestrian activity. Um, I'm not saying we need to become this place, but certain parts of New York City have taken roadways that
weren't really working and started to adopt this same shared streets concept where they're eliminating curbs, they're making narrower streets, they're coming out into the road more. This is an I actually had somebody that we work with that uh has seen this one
in Madison. But again, same thing. You can see even their pavers. Uh it kind of is a little bit mismatched. Doesn't really line up. It kind of leaves you wondering, you know, where's the sidewalk? Where's the road? Um it even still feels weird for me to point out that that's intentional, that it's
purposefully done that way. But when you really start reading about these, starts to make a lot of sense. Again, this is another one in Kirkland, Washington. I really like this image because it does actually kind of call out, you know, there's on street parking. Um, the surfaces are kind of
flat except for right there around those pa uh planters. You got the pavers and everything again can be very easily converted. If you are having a festival or some type of event where you need to close a block, um, it doesn't just look like you're closing a street and you're having a party in the middle of the street. It can look very much like
you're intending to have pedestrians activating the space. And again, uh I know this was not in the United States, but London is another good example. And so, like I said, promised I'd keep my PowerPoint short. I wouldn't talk too long about it. Um I
guess from my perspective, you know, the biggest takeaway again for me was um number one, I was very surprised. I think it took me several days to even just digest like how am I even going to approach this topic? Because in the five years that I've been here, I've had the
same viewpoint of first rate isn't working. It's confusing. It's dangerous. It's it's not doing what it should. And you know, for me, it was really kind of having to take a step back and shift the lens that I'm viewing First Street through. And instead of viewing it as an
actual problem, it's a perceived problem. And shifting from how do we resolve a problem to okay, there's not a problem there, how do we resolve the perception that there is a problem. And I think unfortunately for all of us, that's probably a more difficult issue to solve. I think it's a lot easier to
rip something out and pour something in place and move on. Um, trying to change perception and educate people on what a space is intended to be when it's not something that's standard to the area is going to be a challenge. Um, but it doesn't mean it can't be done. So, I'm happy to answer any questions anybody
has or open up for discussion. >> I'm sorry. It looked like the chief wanted to add a comment or two. So, would you mind a little bit of history. >> Okay. So,
there's a theory that says time is a flat circle. There's no nothing new that ever happens. It's just nothing new in human history. The same things just keep repeating themselves over and over and over again. If you stay around long
enough, you get to see it full circle. So when this was going in a little bit of history, the problem that they made this street was because the bicycles were up on the sidewalks a lot. They had curbs there, but the
bicycle riders were going to sidewalks a lot. So what they wanted was wide walkable space that could coexist with the bicycles because there just wasn't enough room to have separate lanes for each of them. So when they made this, it it was pretty different to us at the
time, but the reason was is to have the bike riders uh kind of blend in with the traffic and up on the sidewalks where underneath the the balconies and stuff like where a surfer the bar is. Um so that's the history behind it. Um you
know, from the roundabouts to the uh to First Street. I guess my question is and I always this. I always ask council, what problem are we trying to solve by by looking at this and redoing it? The
problem's not safety. Um, it never has been. When you look at the amount of bicycle versus vehicle crashes, it's almost zero. I mean, you look at anywhere else in the city, killing a couple people a year. Bicycles versus um
vehicles. So, you know, Mr. pay when you see that the bar lines are coming out there's no uh there's no real boundary. We knew that going into it or they did when they designed it. And the problem was that they want to get rid of the
curbs. They wanted wide walkable spaces and they wanted the bicycle riders to stop running people over on the sidewalks. Which brings us to another point. Everything we do in city government has a lot of unintended consequences. And this created a lot of problems with
volume of traffic and the the traffic circles and and first street a lot of confusion on mixing bikes and and so if it's changed another way there'll be another group of unintended consequences that we can't anticipate now and
there'll be a group 10 years from now or 15 years from now discussing let's switch it back. It's just like the the benches and the things we discussed, the permanent benches down on the boardwalk. It took us 10 years to get those out of there 20 years ago because the
complaints were homeless, kids, everybody hanging out on them and we couldn't make them move on. We we finally convinced the city take them all out and now we're talking about putting them in again. It's flat circle. It just keeps repeating itself. So, it's not a criticism of y'all or or council, but
there was a history behind this. I never really liked this to be honest with you. All these places they they're different than Jackson Beach because we're probably on Saturday pushing 5,000 cars
every two hours up and down First Street. You cannot compare First Street to some of these other streets, whether you compare them to coexisting with bicycles or basically any comparison because it's not the same. We're very
few cities in Wisconsin are pushing the amount of volume of cars that we push on Saturday and Sunday. So part of the issue too was if the old saying is if you uh build a road like a rifle barrel, everybody's going to drive like a
bullet. Well, that's what all this was trying to stop is the high speeds going up and down First Street like they were Second Street. That's why there were uh kind of turns and pavers and the road was narrow. When we first uh when we
first tried the street, we were worried that our police cars going to strike on cars because it was just so close together, but it was meant to do that because what it does was when somebody's driving, if it's wide open, they'll drive faster was the theory. If it's kind of closed in
narrow streets, you got a serpentine a little and there's there's people walking the streets and bicycles, people will slow down. So, you know, all this has a history and my fear is if we redo something on First
Street. Now, we still got Leam Plaza's going to be redone. We still got this the the park garage that might go in. We got a building up there two blocks uh north. Is that correct? that's going in. We might redo First Street. It might not
fit what's going in on all the other lots and then we're in the same position 10 years from now. We're going to be discussing we need the streets to match the buildings or the crowds coming down here. So, I hope that wasn't confusing. But what what's going to be is there's
going to be a group sitting here 10 years from now discussing the same thing. What kind of downtown do you want? That's what it's all comes down to. Do you want 5,000 cars an hour on First Street? Do you want bars where blinds go out into the street? Or do you
want family friendly? And I still cannot get one answer in 32 years from anybody what what they envision downtown to be. It's not about streets and pavers and and artwork. It's about the the philosophy of what you want down there
as elected officials. And I could ask the five of y'all. I can ask council. probably get 14 different answers. So that's not criticism. I mean, that's how dem democracy works. But problem is we're getting mixed messages. We want this to be familyfriendly, but
we want to turn the street back into something that pushes 10,000 cars per hour down it or or it doesn't match um what we're trying to do. Um, I would like to bring my grandchildren down here, too, and sit on
a picnic bench with shade on Saturday. I don't think that's ever going to change because there'll be homeless people sitting on the benches in the shade down there. Um, so when y'all decide what you want, we can give you an answer, but we can't have it all. We
can't have bars with lines and and and curbs and bicycles and millions of people come in this city and and please everybody. It's just impossible. And the more we try to keep building and the more we do projects, um it's going to get worse because we're just compounding
the problem. Do you have anything to add? I mean that's just my it's just my opinion and I hope >> history behind it. >> No, and I appreciate the comments. I mean I think I think from my perspective
it's it's a it is a challenging direction to move is you know first of all what is it that we want down downtown? How do we want that downtown to look and function? And from that we might be able to determine a little bit
more what how do we want the um traffic flows to be pedestrian vehicular and things to that extent because until we know what how we want the downtown to be because ultimately my objective has always been we need more foot traffic
downtown. If we don't have more foot traffic, we're never going to be able to support the businesses that are down down there. And and somehow we've got to get that foot traffic to happen. So again, it it you got to take a look at the
all of the aspects of the pedestrians, vehicular access and things and but not to look at it as just first street anymore, but look at it as the downtown district including the u the end zones and so forth, which I think are become
an important part of this along with how does that tie into what we're talking about doing on the boardwalk because all of these are interconnected. Ed and uh it it's going to take a little bit of effort and and
some creativity to come up with the right solution here. I know we're never going to be able to solve everybody's problems, but hopefully we can take it in a direction that's going to make it much more appealing to the residents of the of this community. And that's
ultimately the responsibility I think that we all have. It's got to be systematic. I agree with you 100% because First Street bleeds into south of Beach Boulevard. Parking issues come up. Um, and it and people
parking across A1A residences and then you got all the stuff that goes on downtown like takeovers and all the stuff we've been facing. >> The more public space we have, the more that those crowds will be able to take advantage of. So, we really have to
consider everything um at systematic approach and it comes back to what type of downtown Jacksonville Beach do you want? If you want like Neptune Beach, this street will probably work. If you want to get more people down here, which it seems to me if we're putting in
parking garage that we want more people down here or something, that we need to go to a more traditional roadway that separates these two. Um, but what we're asking for is a walkable roadway that's pretty and that's
decorative, that's wide for pedestrians, that um is safe. Well, I want all that stuff, too. If if we can't necessarily have it, and then we're going to piece it in with everything else that's not completed yet. I I'm just trying to make
make y'all aware of it so hopefully we avoid the mistakes that we made in the past. And I I would just add that, you know, we don't need to look at this as a as a negative. It we have a wonderful opportunity here to do something. And um it's just going to take all the brain
power in this room plus others. They're going to help us get to the right solution. But it's an opportunity and we ought to grab it and uh and really do something with it. And I apologize. I know there are some other board members that have some comments that
One thing that's sort of sideways but to the point somebody asked me bluntly why we have the uh events that happen here instantaneously with communication zap zap zap people piling in from everywhere which you guys can't you can be there
and you still can't stop it that's fact and why doesn't that happen in Neptune Atlant Beach Town Center and the only thing I could think of was that we have these huge open parking spaces and lots of access to the beach where
people can go up and down to the boardwalk where they run up and down which they have after certain events. So all this space and interconnectivity allows people to invade us like that in mass and that does not exist in the
other area. That's the only thing I can come up with off the top of my head. The second topic of the question is since we don't have an urgent safety problem, which is great, what are our next steps? What do we do next? What do we talk? >> What's up, Taylor? What's next?
>> No pressure, right? >> Well, before before we if I may, I you know, let us not >> look at that. I I want to get the rest of the comments first from from the board and then we can kind of jump into that topic because that is an important
item and I um but I'd like to give everybody here a chance to to comment beforehand. Did you have anything else that >> Okay. >> Okay. Megan,
>> I appreciate the background from the chief. I think that is very relevant and I believe everything just recycles itself. If we want to know what's going to happen, look backwards, right? I think that's generally how it goes. When we're looking at these studies and what we're going to do for First Street, we're talking about safety. Safety for
who, right? Who are we talking about? So, if we're saying, you know, the beach life, what's beach life? Walkability, right? Bikers, pedestrians. So this makes sense that this is heavily biker pedestrian forward, right? Um
I think to make a change, any sort of change right now when we're saying there's no imminent safety problem and we have some pending projects coming, why why ch why fix something that's not quite broken, right? We're saying
everybody's saying there's a problem, there's a problem, right? I I avoid first street because I don't know where I'm supposed to be. And that's what we're talking about here. The wounder, right, is I don't know where I'm supposed to be. No, none of the drivers are having to make that judgment call of
do I have the right away or do they? Like it's you you don't know like where are you? What's going on? And so you can just avoid it. Now, we've talked about closing it completely. I don't know if we want to do that and allow just only emergency vehicles. I don't know if we want to do that. is there maybe there's
something else where we say on the weekends we're closing the street right Saturday whatever that's what we're going to do or maybe during those times not available to drive through traffic or whatever the case may be but if the whole thing is who are we trying to make safe I think if we're doing a
traffic setting on first street versus on second street the we're looking at something a little bit different I think people want to walk around here our philosophy is walkability bikes we're talking about low speed vehicle full parking lot. Why would that philosophy be any different to what we want to
apply to our downtown? As I currently see it, I I don't think it makes sense to make any grandiose changes, right? Until we have a reason to do it, right? Safety makes sense, but not currently having that problem. So, I'd say kind of
leave it status quo in my opinion. Leave it status quo until we have a until we have more information or we have something that we actually need to fix. Just one thought, Taylor, that came to mind is that we have, I think, on our
CIP the potential of um doing something with Second Street that public works is going to do from Beach to um 6th Avenue North, I believe, was in or at least in their plans. I don't know if it's on the CIP right now, but >> that sounds right. off the top of my
head. I don't want to confirm or deny, but I'm happy to look at my desk and let you know. But I think that sounds correct. >> Yeah. But it's it's in their plan. So, you know, part of what as we start talking about all of this because I think the direction they were going is redoing things just like they're redoing
them down First Street. >> Yep. >> To do that on Second Street going north. >> Yep. But we may have to think about how we're really proceeding here and whether that is the right way to proceed because I think one of the big questions that needs to be answered up front and first
is is first street two ways one way or pedestrian only is second street one way two ways or pedestrian only um as well as some of the avenues at at the same time. We need to answer that. I I think
I don't know, you know, we may need some help from a consultant in reference to making that kind of a decision, but um I think for us that's an important question. I know I've gotten some comments that I've
heard from uh council that they do not want to see it become pedestrian only, that at least it's a uh at least one way in one direction. So, but I think we need to all examine the options and make sure that we're
we've got the right solution for what we need here. Um, with that, I I think dad's question is really the uh the focal point is, you know, how do we proceed from here? what
are the next steps that we take um to move this forward >> because it's going to be I can see it being a lengthy process and so forth but you know I I think we really need some improvements on First Street and again
I'm talking aesthetics not >> anything else but there needs to be some improvements on First Street um and the sooner we can move things along the better. Um, but we've got to do it in a logical order. >> So, any recommendations from your
standpoint as to what you think is is the right next steps and what you might need from us from council to try to um move the needle. >> Yes. So, you know, again, this I mean,
this has been like weeks of conversations with our police department, with parks and recck, public works, administration, planning. I mean, we if this is going to affect the department, we have sat down and talked about it, trying to kind of figure out what makes the most sense. And honestly,
I think Megan had a great point. And I think where um I don't want to speak for other members of staff, but I think they would all be comfortable with me saying we all kind of feel the same. uh we've learned there is not an imminent danger to safety. So the need to have some
immediate solution where we're down there, we're tearing out pavers, that that doesn't exist. And our recommendation would not be to proceed with anything from a capital project standpoint at this time because we do know we have a very very large project
um out for proposals right now. Uh and that project, you know, it it is on the definitive timeline. There is a bid opening date and it is coming and it's coming fast. It'll be here before we know it. Um we've got the potential for a low speed vehicle parking lot. You
know, there wasn't originally capital funding for FY26, but we're waiting on a cost estimate from the consultant because we do feel confident that that's going to be a relatively moderate cost to go ahead and bump that one up. Um that will be additional parking, but you know, for golf carts
and scooters and things like that. Um and then there is the private development world. Um you know we can't always necessarily speak to everything going on until developers are ready to share but that um things are definitely happening behind the scenes. Conversations are happening. People are
starting to kind of come online again. Um we have had very early conversations with um property owners of you know parcels that maybe have been sitting empty in a very popular spot for a long time. And uh I'm not saying they're
going to put shovels in the ground tomorrow, but for the first time in five years, I mean, we it's it's constant. I mean, the wheels are constantly turning. Um I think we would recommend nothing major at this time until we really see where a lot of these projects
are going to land, specifically our projects because those are the ones that we can control. Um and seeing how that kind of changes the roadmap. I think getting through some of the Laam Plaza improvements will also be a big one because the entire goal of why we're doing this portion of Laam is to increase the daytime traffic. You know,
I think when we were saying, you know, the goal was to increase, you know, pedestrian traffic. Um they I mean based on what we saw in the videos, the nighttime pedestrian traffic we have no issue with. We have plenty of those. There's ample evening and nighttime pedestrian traffic. It's the daytime
where we're lacking. Um, and so I think with a lot of our targeted investments and a lot of our projects where we are going to have retail spaces and targeting whether it's businesses, restaurant, whatever that may be that is going to continue to support Laam Plaza and increase the daytime traffic and we're
going to have this new space that maybe people feel safer coming to see. Um, we have a new restaurant set to open, what are we in April? Twoish months next door to Waka. They are going to be finally uh, fingers crossed opening up. And so I think trying to increase that daytime
traffic, which is only going to increase the pedestrian traffic, which we know the road is working right now for pedestrians. I don't know that there is an immediate um action item. I think with city council, you know, this actually I was really looking back my notes trying to go like, okay, what
spearhead like why did we start having this conversation? It actually stem from the urban trails. That's where it stemmed from because there is a portion of the trail that is supposed to run down First Street and we said, "Well, we can't really construct a trail because there's no room. The urban trail consultants had authored up some solutions." Trevor can probably speak to
this better than I can, but there was leaving it as asis, going to one way and going to no vehicles at all. Weren't those the trail things? And so when we looked at that, we're like, well, you know, that that's a policy change having to go to that level. So that's really
what started this was looking at if we're going to incorporate a trail, how does that play into First Street? And then, you know, council said, "Okay, well, we need to look at First Street. Do we need to change things? Is it working? Do we need to change direction? Do we need to?" And I think collectively right now, the recommendation would
probably be to lead alone like that. You know, I keep looking behind me, but obviously our police department are the experts on what really is going on down there. And Sergeant Cohill said a really interesting point in our meeting we had internally where um I don't want to
misquote you but something to the effect of 10 years ago if we would have asked you how you felt about First Street your answer would have been much different than it is today. I'm not I won't say everything but no that you know 10 years ago it would have been this is insane but now that we've seen over the years that wait this is slowing people down.
This is a safe space kind of leave it as is. focus on what's coming that's going to funnel people into First Street and then really at the same time try to keep planning go okay what is going to work if we are going to get to a point where we do have to replace papers that's
coming we're going to have to papavers don't last forever what materials are going to make sense if we don't want to do papavers we do not want it to be asphalt how can we pressure treat concrete to make it look different and have different colors I think that's going to be the direction the conversations need to start going
>> so the theory in and of itself with the festival street and everything else. Obviously, the the stats and the report kind of shows that that's working, right? And a lot of the things that I've listened to you guys talk about over the last couple years is aesthetics. And as
Taylor said, as things need to be replaced, and to me, that's when the aesthetics come in, choose something that fits along. You know, is it perfect? No. But it works for us. And as the chief said, the laws of
unintended consequences, things happen. Well, things happen when they change the street. But we've made the best out of it and we make it work for us. That combined space, the combined use of pedestrians being out there with traffic and the lack of signage, the lack of
lines that makes people concentrate on driving in that area, and it makes them slow down and sometimes avoid the area. And you know, and it it works for us. Might not be the best, but it works for
us and it works well for us. Knock on wood. You know, to say that there's no safety concerns for the police. We're always concerned. You know, we go to bed worrying and wake up worrying. But it's it's something
that statistically works for us. So, as you talk about it as a committee and as you're considering changes, things like that, I think staying with the theory that's there and the things that are working for us, crowds sometimes, and
it's different times of night, right? At 8:00 in the morning on Sunday, it's totally different street than it is at 11:00 on a Saturday night. Totally different street, totally different problems. But those problems work and mesh. sorry. They mesh and work the best
for us as it's designed right now. So, my recommendation would be to consider that as you're looking at changing the aesthetics of the area. Stick with that theory if you can. That makes sense. >> If I could, is there a consensus from
the department that you would say this would really help or this would be really bad if we change this? not proposing any changes, but is there anything that would help or or anything that you know would absolutely hurt? >> If we made any changes, right, we're I think we're suggesting maybe status quo
right now, not making any major changes, but if there were any changes going forward with P3 or anything else coming in, is there any changes that you would say that absolutely will not work for us or is there any improvements that you could see and say, you know, that could help us a little bit more? Um, that's
kind of a tough question as far as roadway design goes. Um, >> even just from being able to police what's going on down there on a Friday, >> that's that's a big topic and and thank you for adding that. We can do it. We can do anything anywhere. The road
design is not going to make us or break us. Okay. The thing with um with the with helping us do our jobs, if you I've always the the the view of the police department is do not make that pedestrian only. It'll be a disaster. If
you look at New Orleans and Bourbon Street, that's what it's going to look like because like Mr. Mosy said, the more open space you give them, the the more people are going to gather. Now, I would like to gather 10,000 law-abiding citizens down there and in free space.
It doesn't work like that. It's a numbers game. With every 10,000 people, there's a number out there are going to be criminals. So, when you put 30,000 people downtown or 20,000 for a festival or for the blues festival, a certain amount are going to be criminals. So,
the same goes at night. If you think there's a problem now with people gathering in spaces, close off First Street. It's just going to give that much more to do to to gather. So, the position of the police department, as far as I'm concerned, is no, we're against closing it. It's just going to
add more space for people to gather. And you have to take that in consideration. We can't attract and have the open beautiful public spaces plus the beach like we do, and not have problems. It's just it's going to happen. So once
again, if if we do something like that, sure. Five more officers, I'll take them and we'll we'll police the heck out of a another whole street >> that is now a public area people can gather. >> Um as as far as make or break, none of this
or or heard or make it a little more difficult. >> None of this none of this. >> It's almost as if the minimal traffic, the slow traffic helps. Well, it >> from a nobody's getting hit, right, from our study, right? From from what we know,
>> but all this it goes back to what problem are we trying to solve with making it a one-way street? >> You're going to add complications on people going the wrong way down one way streets. It's going to add to confusion. You think there's confusion now, put a couple streets downtown way.
>> I'm just predicting it, but um those are things we can predict. So, back Nothing's g like nothing's going to make us or break us or say we can't police down there. It comes down to what y'all want. And I
don't think personally as a taxpayer police chief that's going to help right now to do a bunch of construction out on First Street. >> I agree. >> I agree. >> You know, you look at Fourth of July, it works fine. >> If if you want to look what a closed street could look like, look at Neptune
Beach when they close the street. Right. I mean, now everybody's going down there and not here, which is fine. I'll let Chief Kee deal with that, but I'm not trying to be the good ideas and make it beautiful. I want to do that, too. But, but we got to
do it. We got to figure out what we want to do and what kind of downtown we want. And I still say that philosophically. Philosophically, we need to decide that be >> because if we want restaurants and walk, we're not going to get people visiting to walk around when there's nothing
down, >> right? >> Okay. If you look at the history of Jacksonville Beach, it's been about sun, fun, >> and alcohol. Or if you look back a hundred years, that's what all this was. >> There's never going to be a Louis Vuitton store in a corner of first and
first configuration have lost it. It's just not going to happen or a bunch of coffee shops or restaurants >> just because of basic real estate costs, >> right? >> You can't put a business out there. People are going to want to walk around. Until we change that philosophy, we can change all the streets we want, put all
the planters in, make everything as nice as we can. We're not it's not going it's going to be about sun, fun, and alcohol. So, it's just I've seen if you go to other cities, it's just different than Jacksonville Beach. If you come down
here on a Saturday afternoon or a Wednesday in summer, it's packed with people on the beach. There's a lot of people that come here and you volume brings problems along when you have volume of visitors. So, and if you close
down First Street, it has effects on Second Street. It's going to have an effect on that roundabout right there. If some first street's closed, everybody's got to cycle through there and the problems are going to radiate out from there. So once again, what problem are we trying to solve? Sorry, I keep repeating it, but
>> I know we're not sure that we have a problem right now, right? I mean, we're not sure, right? We're not sure that we do. So >> if there's a perception problem, people say it doesn't feel safe or dangerous or confusing. Okay, I accept
that, but the the stats don't show it. we can educate them and show them. But I I I'll go ahead and say I'm this far along in my career about all I think everybody wants to change it just for the sake of change. I mean, not
everybody. Um I'd love to beautify it. It needs work down there. But the change of roadway, another project on First Street, this community is getting more intolerant of these projects that last two, three years. And the cycle to complete them is so
long, by the time something's popular now, by the time we get in that fad's gone and we moved on to something else. So that's just what I hear from my from people that I interact with. Less projects, make it simple. Simple doesn't
mean easy. Simple just means a lack of complexity. And that's what we need in the city when we're having seven, eight million visitors visit our city every year. It's different. So, sorry to draw. >> No, that's that's very helpful. Very valuable. Thank you. >> I hope that helps.
>> It does. >> Anybody else have any other questions or comments? >> Go ahead, Sydney. Um yeah, just to add, I think I'm probably repeating a lot of what was just said, but um I think that whatever our um next steps are with
First Street outside of this safety conversation, if it's aesthetics, if it's um uh education, public perception, things like that, um I would just encourage us to look through it um through the lens of who our target users
are for each component. Are we um and I think Gary you mentioned this um is this residents who we're trying to target? Are these uh visitors? Is it both? I would suggest that probably each merits
a different solution and approach. Um so just something for us to keep in mind um as we move forward. >> Yeah. I mean, and I think that there's so much that I mean, again,
honestly, my brain is still kind of spinning. It's it we knew it was a big project. Um, and then I had to completely shift it. It's an even larger thing than I thought it was going to be. And it's a completely different project than I thought. My mind's kind of been, okay,
capital, capital, capital. It's going to take years. It's going to be millions of dollars. and then kind of going, "Okay, hold on. That's not the problem." And having to really completely change that mindset. Um, as far as next steps, sitting here in front of you right now, I would be doing everyone a disservice
to say that we haven't figured out and this is our next step because we're just not there. Um, I think we've got to continue to have conversations amongst just ourselves as staff and um, I've actually reached out
to colleagues in the redevelopment world that have similar downtowns that are very popular. Um, some that are right on the beach that have pedestrian traffic, that have foot traffic that, you know, one beauty of of being in redevelopment is this isn't the first time someone's
had this problem and it won't be the last. And there are other places that have dealt with this and they've done it well. And there's places that haven't done it so well, but they've learned and um they can offer some insight. Uh I learned about how I can find all kinds of crash data online. Didn't know I
could do that. I learned how to look up different databases and see like, wow, we do have a problem on this segment of Second Street. We don't have anything on First Street. Um, I think the best next step for us will be to really get back together internally and kind of draft a plan of, okay, how do we want to take
this back before CRA and council? I think the most appropriate way, and this is something I did talk about a little bit with the city manager, would be the next time we have a joint meeting, which should be late summer, early fall, pending on folks schedules, would be to really have this be one of the key
topics where by that point we've been able to kind of further our conversations and have a little bit more direction and not have it just be so open-ended. Um, because it is hard to leave a conversation open-ended. It drives me crazy. So I I know it doesn't feel great to leave a meeting with like well to be continued. Um but I think
that would be the next most appropriate time to talk about it with council would be in a joint setting because um I think this is a big shift in perspective. I do think at some point education is going to come into it because again I've been here five years. People that have been here twice and three times as long as
me, they didn't know that this street design was actually done this way on purpose. Um, so how can we expect visitors and residents to all know that if we don't even know that that's why it was done? So I think there are a lot of elements that are going to come into play. Um, you know, one thing
I will say is we went from um I don't remember the exact number actually text I believe they're still watching our communications department and our Facebook went from I I don't know the original number of views but just this year alone um since expanding and then really pushing out continuous
content up to 1.6 million views on our Facebook page. That's actually insane. We've had Instagram reels go viral that had over 700,000 views. And on Instagram, those are very hard numbers to follow. Um, and that was just from October to March, we've seen those kind of numbers. Um, so just from October to
March, we've already had 1.3 million. And last year, in a full 12-month cycle, we got 1.7. So, we're on track to continue reaching a massive audience. So, I know we can't educate everyone, but I think if we're going to also look at the education component, we have a
great tool in social media. We have a great way to make content that can be stagnant and you know paper flyers QR codes but we can also do video and we can walk portions of her street. We can explain that this is why it looks this way. This is the purpose you're in a shared space u with the city doing the
signage. We can look at you know maybe as you're entering near beach and entering near six north on first you have signs that are you are entering a shared space please be mindful you know just little things like that. Um I just don't know exactly what that's going to
end up looking like. >> I think the um conversation with um city council is going to be um probably a little eye opening. And the I think one of the things I would encourage you to
do is maybe have a similar session with council prior to any joint meeting because the one thing that I would like to see that comes out of a joint meeting is what are the policy changes that we need to make to accomplish this ultimately because there may be some
things you know and I'm just I'm not saying this as a direction I'm but as an example if you make first street pedestrian And you know, we're going to need we're going to need council approval on all of that. So, you know, is that a direction ultimately that we
want to go out of the joint session? Hopefully, we can come and identify no first street is going to be continue to be two-way. it will um continue to incorporate the uh design the shared
street concept designs um and that we will extend that over to Second Street and >> other things that and that will start to help us then move the project forward once we've got everybody on the same page with that.
>> It doesn't quite answer the chief's question about what do we want downtown? That's still the the ultimate question. And I, you know, somewhere along the line, hopefully we will get to that point. >> I was going to run you over the course, so I stopped saying it.
Just um I wanted to add though um on for y'all's benefit this this CR this current CRA board and this current council have done more for downtown in the short time y'all have been here on on the board and and Taylor and this group that's done more for downtown in
my opinion the last five years than really any other group has as far as progress and you begin to have these discussions um and you're looking for change and you're open to other ideas. You know, y'all have very difficult jobs so council because nobody's ever
happened. You know, whatever y'all do, it's a 5050 shot. Part of the thing I've been telling the people I talk to in the Citizens Police Academy and every resident I can is this uh we're yearning for nostalgia. You
know, y'all all have a very impossible job. And y'all's job is to basically make um downtown and this beach very um fiscally progressive. Uh bring a lot of businesses in, but no bad guys, no
criminals, but you want to bring a lot of people in. And you want to do it all for no money that it doesn't cost the taxpayers any money. And they want it done now instead of two years from now when the project's done. Well, I want that, too. But I think y'all hit it on the head that education as citizens as
far as history and also that what I hear is I wanted to be Jacksonville Beach. Well, it used to be small town Jacksonville Beach. Well, I people don't like to hear from me, but if there ever was a small town Jackson Beach, those
days have been over and gone a long time ago, and we will never go back. And to and to say we want a vibrant downtown if if citizen or taxpayer, but we don't want people to come in here. Doesn't work. You can't have both of them. So, I
think I tell everybody I can that small town days are over, folks. We are we are a medium-sized city with large city problems and a county of a million people and we are the playground for said county. And and we have to look at
it from that point of view. and all the wishing we could go back where I can make a left turn off Penman Road at brush hour days those days are gone. I don't want roundabouts off Penman Road, but I can't make a left-hand turn any time of the day on Penman Road. Might take my life into my hands. I don't want
this to be a six-way road, but small town days are over. And that goes for everything from the, you know, the height limit to the the road construction to everything. I I think we all kind of need to either us as citizens or taxpayers, we're going to
adapt or go the way of the dinosaur and still yearn for these old days. It's not going to go back. I think education on our part would really help the citizens realize that, you know, we're doing 10,000 cars a weekend or every two hours
down First Street. We have to do something. And I think that's where you start. Um we got to make it safe for everybody. And I I think a lot of people see First Street with two or three cars on it. They don't see it on a Saturday when it's packed. So y'all's job isn't possible. I think we if we educate the
citizens and I think it'll really help about what our challenges are and what we're trying to do and why. And any beach in Florida now is a target for crowds, crime, a lot of visitors. There was an article
a few years ago that we were the busiest um beach per capita in the country with 8 million visitors and 25,000 residents. I I'll share again I'll share the article with you. It was in the daily beach like five six years ago. The
busiest beach per capita in the country. Um and those stats play true if you look at it and we have to accept it because there's no way we're going to go turn back to where it's small towns. So, thank you for what y'all do. And like I said, y'all's job. I wouldn't want y'all's job, but y'all have done a lot
for this speech. I appreciate it. I appreciate y'all giving your time because you surely don't get any. Thank you or or for what y'all do. So, I appreciate it. >> Thank you for your input. It's very helpful. Taylor, maybe there's a part partial way
to attack this is, you know, maybe there's some shortterm things that we can do to improve things. And you were mentioning signage in particular and then there's the longer term things where we've got to
>> come to some conclusions with city council on certain items. Maybe there's a way that we can start to break that apart a little bit and and take two paths and and try to move some things forward because some of the things again
from my perspective there are aesthetic things and they can be taken care of very easily. Um you know pouring a little bit of concrete or doing something to just make things better. there the walkways are not um you know
an ADA problem and things to that extent and then yet we can continue down the road of a much broader >> vision of what first street needs to be and what second street and get everybody's input obviously council
included and and so forth and and get everybody's input and then see how we can move that needle forward and how quickly we can move it forward. Yeah. >> Yeah. I think a little bit it's going to kind of look like I'm a very visual
person, but I think it's almost going to look like a vent diagram. There's going to be a side that's short-term immediate small things that we can fix, we can do uh relatively, you know, not a big fiscal impact. Then there's going to be the larger long-term much broader
projects. But then I do think there's going to be overlap. There's going to be things that are going to kind of fall into both categories where, you know, We're going to educate people now, but we're going to have to do that for the long term because we are a beach community. We are a tourist destination. We have beautiful hotels on the beach.
We're going to have to continuously put information out. Um so I I think we need to by we you know staff consultants all of us kind of working on this need to really take some time to make you know figure speak kind of make that vin diagram of okay this is kind of
now this is later this is a little bit of everything and figure out what that path looks like >> yeah just real quick just to kind of round us out here um we don't have a safety issue I mean I I think by the
study I guess at least a traffic safety issue >> pretty safe. >> Yeah. So if we don't have that what I'm hearing is trying to wrap our head around it's like feel like we have like a beautifification andor marketing >> y
>> for lack of a better term a marketing issue. >> Yep. >> Right. I mean at least for the immediate. So like that's where my head's at on this so far is >> Yep. >> No major changes. I'm aligned. I really think we got to figure out how to make
it nostalgic with a consistent theme. So, the beautifification and, you know, safety of pedestrians, ADA, all that good stuff. >> Um, but then also, we got to market it >> appropriately to the community and let them know >> why we're doing what we're doing, right?
Yeah. And they don't know what they don't know. Yep. And so I think not to oversimplify, but that's kind of where I'm at on this one is >> agree. >> You know, beauty and consistent theme and marketing. >> So, >> I know I've been quiet, so I feel like
might as well say something. >> It's great. Good job. >> Any other comments, thoughts? Uh, Taylor, what what do you need from us at this point u to help you? Um, I mean truly
>> thousand more hours every week. >> I don't know. It's been busy. It's been a little crazy. Um, no, truly at this point, I mean, I usually do have an ask at the end of an item. And I think for once at this point I I really don't I mean the feedback you guys had is enough
for me to take this feedback go communicate that to our kind of internal team working on this and like I said kind of get the wheel spinning on okay let's get some um action items and and kind of throw in everything but the kitchen sink with the action items and then kind of have that list to go okay but really what's needed what's
realistic what makes sense and what's responsible. um you know, we hear these complaints and we hear these perceptions and and kind of trying to take all of these things and you know, back to the chief's point, you know, what are we trying to solve and trying to kind of keep those things in mind and talking
with the internal team and then create an action item list from there. Uh kind of come back to you guys, maybe fine-tune that action item list at our next workshop, maybe two workshops. Um it depends on how all these other
projects start falling into place. Um, but at a very future workshop the next, you know, one or two meetings, look at that action item list and then prepare for uh to get on a council briefing where then I can go and talk to the city at council in a briefing setting and kind of bring them up to speed on our findings, what we've discussed and then
instead of just kind of coming to them with, you know, sorry, I kind of just dumped a bunch of information on you guys and just kind of sat like, okay, let's talk. Um, doing it in a more refined version at a council briefing where, okay, we talked about this. We went over the information. We made kind of this list. We narrowed this list down
with the CRA. Here's kind of what we're looking at for the next, you know, six months all the way maybe out to 36 months. This is kind of what we see being an appropriate response to First Street. Um I I think that's what we're looking at. I will say this with
certainty. If any point of that direction changes or I realize that was a terrible idea, let me pivot. Um, you guys know I tend to email you frequently and I will absolutely keep everyone updated and let you know kind of where things are falling with all of this. >> Yeah, I think that would be helpful is
keep us updated and then as you need input from us, >> you know, please ask. I mean, we, you know, there's no reason that the this item can't be on the agenda. Yep. almost on a monthly basis and just make sure we're, you know, we're tracking things for a while and and uh maybe doing some
of the small items and changes and improvements um that, you know, everybody agrees to. Um I think that'd be real helpful. >> Yeah. >> Yeah. >> Any final thoughts from anybody? Um >> I have one. >> Yes, ma'am.
>> I have great news. I was actually texted by an audience member sitting back there. Uh the playground is opening Saturday. >> All right. >> Uh we are ahead of schedule. Everything is looking beautiful and uh the playground will be back open and ready
to go and functional and safe. Uh so we will work with communications. We will get messaging out on this ASAP. Um I will send an email to council that I'll also forward to you guys just because anytime I send council on I like to send the same out to the board. But we will be notifying everyone that we are officially on track to open up Saturday.
and that we're ahead of schedule. Everybody needs to know we're ahead of schedule. >> Okay. Thanks to Trevor and the team at heart. >> Yes. >> Yeah. Thank you both for your efforts on that because I know that that was kind of an unforeseen thing and uh you know we uh were able to get all of that done
under the warranty of the um original construction agreement and uh it really um I've watched it uh for a number of weeks and last thing I saw out there were all the bags of sand. that still need to be spread. But hopefully that'll
happen fairly quickly. But I at the same time I want to you know kudos to everybody to for the work that was done on the 900 day street project because what we ended
up getting as final information on that indicated that we had over $3 million in savings on that project. and um that wouldn't have happened without some real effort on everybody's part, particularly staff's part in getting that
accomplished. So, thank you all and public works. And I know we learned a lot of things from that project. And I think we're going to be implementing similar procedures as we move forward on other projects which hopefully will help
the city and the um way it bids projects and the way it reviews construction costs and things to that extent. Had some brief conversations with Dennis and I think he's taking a lot away from this specific project and how that might help
the city in the future. >> So again, thank you all. I greatly appreciate it. Anything else? Uh if not motion to adjourn. >> We have a motion. Is there a second? >> I'll second.
>> And we have a second. Meeting is ajourned.