##VIDEO ID:4aucfCEHY7I## Sol okay everybody I think we're going to get started I'm not usual G this is a workshop um but I'd like to call our Workshop to order um I understand that the um o of office administered to our new members our new regular members and our may have David do here Margo Mor here Nicholas Andrews here Debbie Cole here Justin Henderson here Dean hadock here Matthew fer here thank you say we have a quum with that we I sort of hand it over to staff to us thank you hard as it go so I'll just yell into the microphone um well Welcome to our new members very excited to have you um I know we have talked about the Land Development code on multiple multiple occasions I staff really appreciates everyone's participation and all the workshops and discussions and Q&A that we've had we are in the 11th hour we are ready to wrap this thing up um so we didn't want to just throw it at you guys to vote on we wanted to make sure we had an opportunity to have a discussion and address any final concerns you have answer any questions you have address any issues that may still be out there um staff did have a uh workshop with Council back in November right back in November where we went over some last kind of those last hanging out their issues uh that table associated with that discussion is in your packet so it's the one that's kind of yellow and blue I think um so if yellow and green I apologize and I'm not the color so the documents in your packets prior to the El think everybody has this yeah we don't have hard copies of it you don't have hard copies of that iica yeah I just wanted to make sure it's in the it's on the agenda online that you said abolutely so before the LBC before you get to that 316 page document um you'll see a project timeline with all the workshops uh laid out for you um and then that that you guys are handing out and then the last thing is really more of a summary table that goes article by article and uh kimley horn is going to go into some detail on just really kind of the high level stuff and then touch on some details in each article of what the big topics and what the big um focus score updates were but um every section of this LDC has been touched in one way or another even if we move some things around change some language update dated a a date reference or a agency reference so um some of it didn't change but we touched at least one thing in every single article some things for example like the um flood Hazard ordinance that was recently updated so I I think we did make a lot of changes to that um but with that so I'm gonna I'm going to turn it over to kimley Horn who's going to just provide a summary and then we'll Dive Right into Q&A issues concerns uh that sort of thing so Workshop format we can kind of keep it a little bit more informal than we would for a regular hey how are yall I don't know if I need this don't need to yell okay Blair night and kimley Moren you all pretty much know me most most of you uh Mark Shelton here kimley horn as well um you get two things in front of you the big huge thick one is the Land Development code and then the other one is the comp plan I thought y'all would want a hard copy of that yeah you see any Ty please let me know there should be any but you never know lots lots of documents um so we're pretty happy to be here it's been a long long journey uh so just brief overview turn it is connect it is connected wa oh there we go get the right trajectory got just got to wiggle okay got it okay so uh just so you know this timeline we've kind of kept throughout the whole project um we are in the last stage as you can see the very end where we're basically LDC hearings and final copies um it's it's been a long journey like I said since 2022 I don't want to say that out loud but it I guess it it has these kinds of things take some time oh if you guys need me to I next please and this is kind of like the almost kind of Workshop ordinance timeline we we wanted to give you kind of a more detailed of like the actual hearings and if you can see we did the final adoption December for the comp plan and then we're here on the last vertical column for a workshop and then the 27th hopefully um we will have an action item for the the Land Development C so um we're pretty excited next slide so I I know and maybe if you press space one more time nope go back so this is the comp plan updates I just wanted to kind of show you these are the overall uh because we really haven't seen you since transmitt right um nothing changed much from transmitt so we really just um wanted to give you kind of a quick overview in case you because you've got your comp plan in front of you if you have any questions and then um here are the Land Development code updates so with the Land Development code like Heather said I mean I I don't know how many people look through this experts all of us we combed through every word to make sure it made sense make sure is this what the city Jacksonville Beach wants and so um that's why we didn't really give you a red line because it would been a mess to be honest uh so it it is a almost a rewrite in terms of of we have a whole new definition section in the beginning whereas that was article four before uh you have a whole new zoning map in GIS which we were really excited about doing and yall know the the joke about the crayon comp plan map so um I keep I have to keep telling that one uh we made sure all the statutory references were correct um any internal references within the document we made sure we corrected all those those and then we reorganized some of the Articles those would kind of the overview and then we have a definition section here we'll go we'll go through each section so article one we just kind of changed um that public facility standards are included in Rd zoning which is similar to a PUD zoning the article two interpretation of Land Development code we wanted to remove the board of adjustments and the actions uh because it didn't quite make sense to have them in the appeal process and then um rules of construction dates references all those we just reviewed nothing major in those three categories and then article four definitions so it was um so if you look it was article four now it's article three and I will say we waited till the last moment to do the definitions because every time we would look through it's like wait we don't have a definition for that so let's add it and so I think it may look like Overkill that we have this massive definition section uh but at least now if you're looking through this and you're saying well what does that mean you can refer to the definition and and these are best practices planning we kind of made sure we used a bunch of different municipalities in a way made sure it made sense for jab speech too well if I can add to that um part of our definition section again it was outdated some of our definitions didn't match what the statute said or Florida building code so that was one of the big things that kimley horn did was make sure that all of our definitions were consistent with the other documents that we that we use um yes thank you H good point and then um decision- making bodies administrative bodies uh we it was very specific when groups met in that article and so we really wanted to make sure we had bylaws uh so y'all can change the day you need the time if you need to um that's really the main uh change in that section that article and then I will say uh the development review procedures that one had some more changes it was um really we wanted to make sure that it was very clear the public notice process for applic ations because yes you have to follow State statutes which is the minimum a city can also have additional notice requirements and so we just wanted to make sure it was very clear that who does what and when uh because and I'll give you an example let's go to let's see sorry just want to make sure we're on the same page literally if you look at page 74 we added these really kind of user friendly tables to I know this is really dry stuff very dry um but that's where we live in the weeds but it makes it easier too for applicants Property Owners if they're saying okay well I want to do a rezoning on my property what's that process look like what are the Public Notices and and other things that we have to do to to get through this process so I think it makes it easier not just for for staff for but people using the code as well for their different types of requests exactly and then sometimes you'll say well why isn't there a sign or you know so then you can say like okay these are the applications that require a sign these are the applications that require notices things like that uh and then we uh one of the big things we did in this section is we beefed up the conditional use section uh I think we're pretty excited about that one um we added some pretty specific you know so if you look on page 80 you have these standards for a conditional use application but then if you go further on um on page 82 you have criteria for each type of conditional use which we wanted to make sure so some use have specific criteria they have to meet which we thought was really important because a hotel is not the same as a gas station right you're looking at different criteria um and then one of the other major changes on page 82 you'll see we added adus so this was one of the ones where if you already are in rm1 or rm2 so you can have multi family already by right we allowed you to do a conditional use for an an Adu but you have to meet all this extra criteria you have to prove you're meeting all of this and so that was one of the kind of major changes in this section I would say um that was new to Jack speech we know that people are doing them but let's let's make sure they meet the criteria right let's make sure they have a minimum lot size make sure that they have a single family dwelling on there we're preserving single family dwelling right um that was the purpose because in all of our workshops we heard we want to keep that character and this is one of the ways we're trying to keep that character that single family um and and there's a lot of criteria if you have questions about that criteria please please let us know or suggestions um we really vetted that a lot yeah but this whole kind of new section um under conditional use es where certain uses will have base conditions I hopefully this will help the Planning Commission um where you're you're not having to come up with those conditions there's a base list of conditions for certain conditional uses in here and then you would have at your discretion to still add some on should you feel they're necessary so it could be hours of operation or extra buffering or lighting control Ingress egress the things that we've kind of done in the past so um hopefully this makes it a little bit easier where like these things are a must and then we can add on to those if you feel that it's warranted yes so we felt like that was big big change um and the other stuff is just kind of clarification you want to go to the next thank you well can we back up real quick I I know that um it's Board of adjustment that does variances but I do want to touch on that since it's in this section we always had a lot of confusion from applicants with the standards applicable to variances because it was worded just very poorly so that was one of the things that we hopefully corrected to make it easier because it was like a the answer was like a negative answer it didn't make sense it was supposed to be yes but the way it was worded you wanted to say no so um I know that applies to the board of adjustment not this group but I did want to make sure to to point that out I I don't know what page that's on I apologize variances are on page 89 thank you hopefully this makes more sense for everybody uh the way that written now yep okay zoning districts lot of changes that was that was a long one a lot of back and forth um so some things we changed because building code and maybe Heather or Christian can talk about like the town H so we there's a couple things so we made the minimum lot sizes the setbacks really to try to meet what what the Varian was wereth you know I'm not so well yeah you sure um initially when we surveyed the property throughout the city it was pretty obvious that most zoning districts minimum lot sizes well exceeded the average lot sizes and a lot of even the majority of lot sizes so we've tried to bring the lot sizes down to more reasonably address the property that was pled in the 20s or 30s that makes up most of the city so it will hopefully mean most of those lots are no longer non-conforming and therefore won't have any reason to apply for a VAR u in addition to that when we produce those lot sizes we recognize that things like set back we need to change because got a very small lot probably a 30 foot rear setback doesn't always work so we've tried to find the middle ground for a lot of that and then um we did look at sort of the history of what Varian has been approved and why and how we can simplify that process um you know you want to be able put a pool their backyard we should make it terribly difficult 99% of the time the bo anyway and that's the whole lot coverage question that's in there so we've established a um 35% lot coverage which includes the house or whatever structure um and the driveway and then an additional 15% of theer is that we cover anything else so if you want to put a shed in you want to put aull back in something like that you've got that 50% to play with but what it does is it means that that is C at that 35% of the driveway and so you can't necessarily come in for a variance and say Hey I want to build a house at 50% of the lot because you don't qualify you're lot to the right side have the right space there's no reason for us to give you a VAR so that'll hopefully help control some of the scale issues that we've had while making it easier for existing homes to be able to you know put a in the backyard and renovate and things like that and although we're not there yet it's kind of connected we've also made it so that uh not conforming single family homes do not have to jump through all the coups to be able to like renovate or put on small additions so we taking single family and that's not all single family just Standalone single family homes so they to kind of help preserve that and not make them have to go through a to month variance process to address setbacks that were you know buil to the 50s so hopefully with all those things we've tried to bring the code more in alignment with what is here what people have done in the past been aov what was acceptable to counil way better explanation I have done yeah that was a big chunk of it um we uh updated the town home definition and also because of how floorida building code does it uh we wanted to make sure that's aligned also there was some concern about these rows of town homes and how um there's not a lot of different differentiation and so what we did is um we said that basically town homes are in four unit blocks now maximum instead of a six unit town home or an 8 unit town home where you get this huge linear flat front that was a major concern of a lot of people is we don't like these huge massive blocks well how do you address that they're allowed to do what they're allowed to do right so we said well let's just do four units um to help differentiate that also uh part of that we' taking the definition of a two pen dwelling duplex which is always something a little contentious um just by its nature but also because the building code doesn't recognize that as a type of structure we've moved that concept into a 2un town so the places where the density is allows a little bit more but not full town home you can do a two un town home whereas before we required at least three um and then we've changed the sizes of town homes and setbacks to make them basically big enough to have a two-car driveway in every lot and you know make them wider than 15 ft for theor ones so trying to address concerns that we've heard you know about the overbuilding of lots and things like that so yeah and we've removed that um uh attached a little Breezeway thing so if you're doing Town Homes the town homes but in the urban areas we've also what called an urban single family which is basically those row houses that were attached with the little breezeways although we've made the lots a little bit bigger we made setbacks a little bigger so they won't be cramed in quite as tight but that way if you just want to build a couple of single family homes that are small but they sense in ANB environment you can do that or you can do town but there's no freeze way to try and get around some of the code requirements okay so yeah just to be clear that that those can be marketed as single family single family as opposed to attached town hall and again if was something that doesn't need the building C definition of attached to single family and you know for the fire marshal that really was just creating problems wasn't solving them so getting rid of that little uh roof I think good plan yeah so essentially the same products can be developed just calling it something different and again aligns better with the Florida building Cod so it makes it easier for everybody so it's something to build they don't have to be attached with fre correct correct but also the the Lots lot requirements are little bit bigger so I mean I get it I live across from these things yeah and just to add on to the to the townhouse changes again four in a row instead of six in a row across the board throughout the whole city wider Lots um and one thing that came up in one of our workshops with council is that that thing that Flair mentioned with this wall of building um and so we put in there for tow houses if there's three or more I think is what we do three or more they have to be offset so you get one that's here three feet for the next one 3 feet up so that they're not just a wall but there's some architectural variation in the in the building Bas um so we've added that in there as well just to give some you know flexibility um with with the way that they look from the street and again widening the lot so you can get that two-car driveway two Garage in some cases if you go wider than the minimum but um I hopefully all of those changes fix a lot of problems that we've heard in all of these workshops even before we started this process um moving forward of course all the existing product that's out there now is grandfathered in it it will stay you know pretty much how it is um if there's anything else with the town houses that we we already talk about adus oh we removed the um the zero lot on single family right it was a a product that nobody was building Wasing and so didn't make sense to keep it in the code again you know we tried to look at what what's actually on the ground what are people building and I just wasn't one of those one of those things can you refresh my memory what's that so zero not one single family it only made sense if you could do several in a row and the whole idea and it's done like I've seen communities in South Florida Orlando where they do this in Mass scale where one side of the building can be on the property line and then the next house over has to be at least 15t away so you have people with no side yard on one side and a big side off yard on the other but what happens because of the building of fire codes is that side that's on the property line will have no windows it's just a really strange product that is used in some places the intent to like create a larger yard on one side is that kind of like the the concept of like a Charleston single house where youve got the like private yard in the house [Applause] yeah so that's what we kind of got sorry I'll use my microphone but just another you know thing too that I'm just kind of going off script here apologize um when we looked at each one of the zoning districts we went through use by use to make sure that do these make sense are these the uses that make sense here do we have to add something that is required by Florida statute so I don't know what you're on here but one of them it's like family um not family dayes what's the one there are certain things that statute requires us to allow we may have changed some of the language but all the uses you know essentially remain the same child V Serv um yeah basically it's broken into two categories one is a house that has five or less children so if you want to drop your kids off the an house you can do that anything bigger than that has to be regulated through the state so once it CR Prest the threshold then it goes into uh in certain zoning categories the conditional use and we put those conditions on there about minimum sizes and things like that stacking so the state has preempted us on little things but the bigger stuff we've made clearer and uh hopefully put some regulations in to make them more compatible we did add outdoor display of specific retail merchandise in commercial and Zoning districts as permitted use um we had get so this this came up with a few businesses around town that were putting things belong outside like bikes and outdoor furniture outside which the code doesn't allow so we had a few conversations with City Council on kind of what's a best practice that makes sense for the city and so what we kind of boiled it down to was to allow certain types of retail merchandise to be displayed outside during operating hours not to exceed a certain size so that way the bike shop can put their bikes outside and a store that sells you know teak outdoor furniture can put a small display area outside um it will require some more enforcement through code enforcement but you know they our code enforcement officers were made aware of some of these changes and and uh it's a start we may expand it we may contract it to see how well it works or doesn't work um which can can be said for a lot of sections of the code that we maybe review in about a year 18 months tweak stuff if we think it maybe was but we left out you know I think we put Plants outdoor furniture and bicycles bikes plants may find that you accidentally excluded something and go in and tweak that later but um that came from some discussions with Council from their discussions with some business owners we're looking for some help on the same line and I know it's we haven't gotten to this yet but in our sign uh this sign section of the Land Development code we have a lot of businesses want to put out little A-frame signs like Hey we're open Labor Day Sale what happened that wasn't allowed by the code it was only allowed in the central business district so we went back in and added that any commercial use in a commercial zoning District can have one little A-frame sign outside their front door you know within I think three feet of the front door not on public property because that really is a good way and there's been research that shows that is a good way to draw in business your signs out there you're open so you know little things like that that may not sound like a big thing might actually really end up helping some businesses that um you know need to let people know that they're open because you drive on Third Street the people going 40 50 miles an hour shouldn't be but they are and you know they might see stuff like that um so you know we heard the business Community say these things will help us so we put some of those things in there but the hope that that it will and I think it's a recognition that you know a lot of our commercial spaces are really more layout smaller better than having you know blinking open signs and you can have something more tasteful in your coffee shop you want to put a menu item out there so I think again addressing the need y as far as the uses go in the zoning districts they pretty much stayed consistent with what was in there now with some some tweaks like we've talked about um and some adjustments to make sure that again it was consistent with industry standards Florida building code um and um Florida statute yep okay um site development standards uh this was kind of a big one because it has the parking in there um so if we go [Music] to if you look um page 155 is kind of the new table for the parking requirements and we really based all those parking either on it or something that was more um appropriate CU there was a lot of kind of variances for parking and you know there was a lot of weird parking standards that didn't really make sense either and so so we wanted to make sure they were compatible with today's standards because and also Jack spee um we you know it was an old code that needed to be Rewritten lot of cases the parking standard was really um creating once again a need for variances because the lots are so small we have a lot of you know 1970 construction that you're not going to car building down it's still functional but we can't Mo a l the parking requirements but also recognizing that you know the city in general is trying toot a multimodal environment where people were encouraged to ride their bikes or take their golf cart or walk so um providing um some tweaks to the minimum parking and then um providing options for people to reduce that parking requirement by providing amenities for alternate Transportation so if you can put in two golf cart spaces in L of a full parking space then we give you credit for that that kind of thing if we have questions is it better to just interrupt or wait till the end either way if you got a question on that top um why did why is that based just succinctly why is that based off of square footage and not of capacity for which one uh for parking places for you know like restaurants and various things like that that's how we have it now it's pretty much an industry standard um for just kind of General commercial it's usually done by square footage other things might be done by number of seats like an auditorium or a church for example um some other things and I think we took it out but La was based on number of chairs for example so particularly for restaurants a lot of the state requirements for how you obtain your restaurant alcohol license is tied to a very similar structure so they count your grow square footage including the kitchen space they count you know your seats and that stuff so it's trying to keep it a little bit consistent with how other agencies are doing that as well yeah it's an interesting question because like strings for example clearly doesn't have enough parking places for the amount of people in in MA occupancy so just question on my side I'll continue contemplating no and it's good to look at cuz we also looked at it from the lens of Regulation and seats can be moved and taken out um and so then what do you do so at least then that like square footage it's easier for when they're looking at the application to say okay you've got 5,000 square ft this is how many parking spaces cuz I would say seats can maybe be fudged yeah that makes sense right um and then thank you for your question and then we have uh specific parking for the CBD which you already had that we just wanted to make it very clear and then also we did create one of the bigger things is we created a downtown in incentive zone parking exemption say that five times fast so basically we're saying in this area you don't have to provide parking unless you're a hotel right because we don't want to you know hotels need parking and um or residential or residential or existing Rd zoning districts because they probably already have a parking standard they are required to provide and then also if you look on page 160 is our reductions page the parking reductions page we really wanted to make sure that we're promoting multimodal here in Jack Beach and so um I really would love for yall to kind of look over those few pages um before we go to the hearing and just ask us questions we really think we kind of tweaked and made it make sense uh for Jack speech but if you have any comments or questions let us know uh this is totally new to this code I have a question about the exemption so there's no parking required are they required to have spaces for bike parking so yeah good question we didn't make bike parking required no but it wouldn't apply to all properties it would apply to those that have primary or secondary access on First Street because that's supposed to be a pedestrian Corridor so what our goal with that is to get rid of surface parking lots on First Street in that pedestrian focused area the C's put a lot of bike racks in that area yeah and there's plans to add more but there's so much construction going on right now that c we have flag certain areas for bike racks but when that property redevelops because right now there's no reason to put them there so there are more coming for sure um but putting in bike racks is a way to actually reduce some of the parking as well some of the businesses were required to have some sort of bik there really isn't enough no there I 100% agree there's not enough um that's why we're trying to encourage more bike parking not only that the city is installing but that the um private businesses will there are a couple products that haven't started that have substantial bike parking as well along that Corridor they just not undering yet so question yeah um and then since we're right there on phach 161 the payment in blue of off street parking gosh that was really convoluted for staff to really calculate and so we tried to make it as easy as POS possible um it it's really we didn't tweak it too much except for how it's calculated um so if you look at page 162 under two so the amount of spa amount per space to be paid in L shall be administratively reviewed and established on an annual basis so then you you basically take the current construction cost of a parking structure not a parking space parking structure and then the cost of annual maintenance by the number of off street parking spaces and then the total payment so we tried not to make it complex it's slightly complex it's a lot less complex than it used to be random question there Christian do are we like having somebody put a bid in every year as a city for what it cost to build a parking structure every year to keep that number updated right now no because it the the process is is really complicated right now it's based on property values in 2010 or 2011 and then you have to like increase 3% every year and every block is a different value they were basing it on property value not the cost to constructed parking space that is not going to change whether it's over here or over there it was tied to the land Val values which makes it very confusing and makes very expensive which is why almost nobody's used it we've had two properties take advantage of this in the time that it's been in in play uh because it's just too confusing and expensive so we're trying to make it less confusing less expensive so that it makes sense and and in the downtown is the only place where public parking do we want more businesses to use it if it makes sense for them to use it and and it it the whole reason it was created was to they got previous administrations got rid of the ability to request a variance from parking downtown so this was their answer to that but it didn't work so again I really expect that we're going to look at this in a year and maybe have to tweak it a little bit to see you know how can we make this work if we want businesses to use it we might find that they're not using it now anyway because we've decreased the parking requirement downtown we've added a parking exemption area for certain properties there's uh you can get Rel from parking if you do other types of parking F racks golf carts compact that sort of thing so there's now a lot of tools in the toolbox instead of one tool before it was just you provide the parking or you pay your way out of it now we have all these other ways to do it they can all be combined you know so maybe someone says well I need 20 parking spaces but I'm going to add a big bike rack and I'm going to do golf cart spaces so that gets me out of half but I still only want to provide let's say three I'll buy my way out of the rest so now there's there's more to kind of get to where I guess in a roundabout way my concern there is looking just kind of reading it the way it's wrote written the city's going to be budgeting every year to pay a contractor or somebody to provide a quot for that no oh to get that fig no we'll come up with a base number and adjust it annually we're not going to we're going to start with a base number just like they did back in 2010 so here's the base land value for these blocks which were all different um so there'll be a base number and then again it'll increase every year but it'll be one calculation not 30 blocks worth of calculations I was just worried about the current construction cost well part of that is tied to the fact that like when you're vieing um Fe calculations for the building code they have a standard that they use per square foot for residential and Commercial and that's the kind of information that they're collecting anyway so probably not a big ask to find that as well for service par because it's designed to be standardized across the state so it's fair just um one more question I think it's generally a good idea because I think businesses are in their self interest to get the amount of parking that they need for the business right so and that's going to BU it says current construction cost of a comparable parking structure what comparable parking structure because this is like per space right that you're trying to buy your so I'm not really following what comparable parking structure is so surface parking versus a garage the cost for construction of a garage parking space sign one garage c one space in garage parking yeah it would be Pro basically okay so if they wanted if they wanted to by the way out of two spaces it would be the cost to construct two spaces in a garage so and that's basically how we do it now but again on a block by block basis so yeah so those were kind of the big things about parking that we wanted to chat with y'all supplemental standards we cleaned up a lot of that um we also I what we did is removed specific conditions from some supplemental standards put them the conditional use right makes more sense right to have it all in one space um what else did we do clarified parking of they have any vehicle um the uh short-term uh vacation rental section we uh decrease the maximum occupancy and maybe Heather can speak to that because that was a big one sure um that we talked to council about yeah so we went in and updated the stvr section it is fairly new so we didn't want to make a whole lot of changes but right now the the ordinance and the process is a little cumbersome for everybody property owners and staff and um you know everyone in between so like lar mentioned decrease the ma Max maximum occupancy from 16 to 12 because that is something we still have control over um from the state that didn't preempt us on that TR they don't um and required all properties to register because right now it's only some property single family and townhouse basically so we're missing all of the apartments and condos and multif Family Properties um they just kind of like get a free pass so we didn't really think that that was equ if we're going to make people register let's make them all register so that was something Council supported um and then requiring them to essentially sign an affidavit they're going to do all these other things through the state and the county that they're required to do because there's been some confusion because if property says well I'm exempt from registering with Jack de because I'm a multif family property they kind of skip doing it with the county and the state but we we need them to do all with those things so we're probably make some more tweaks to that down the road I don't know if anything's going to come through um the state this year to try to give control back to the communities or take more away we don't know yet there have not been any bills filed yet um but there's always chatter about that kind of stuff so we don't know if any statutes coming down the pipe are going to impact us more but we thought if we can make some changes now maybe we can put us in a better position down the road so is there a penalty if they don't register um well see that's the hard part because we can't like padlock their door and tell them not to rent out their property um we could find them and that's another thing we're doing we haven't gotten to that section yet um right now we can take violators of the code to the special magistrate the magistrate can issue a fine some communities have the ability to do citations so I see your grass is overgrown this is your warning if I come back in seven days and still overgrown you're getting a $100 fine we don't do that now we've added in that section which is the enforcement proceedings and penalties very last article that we will have the abil the issue kind of on the spot citations for certain things after a certain amount of time where you basically get a ticket it's not a parking ticket it's a your grass is to T ticket so we we've added that ability in the code to do that and then assuming that that's good with everybody um we'll move forward with the process to do that so we haven't cled out how it's going to work yet we just put in the bu of it we'll have to develop Fe structure and types of things decide we take that for but there'll be tear of violations so if you're this tier it's automatic citation life safety stuff for example and I think that we could fairly put short-term vacation rentals in that life safety category because you have people staying in a property that hasn't been inspected by the fire marshall you hope it's safe but again it's a business being operated from a residential property and the fire marshal wants to look at every single one of them so that's kind of a tool that we have where if we get to that point in the process and we're like you don't register here's your warning and if you don't do it now we're going to issue a citation now there's fines involved that will accumulate outside of taking them to the special magistrate so right now there's very little unfortunately because the state has preempted Us in so many ways or shortterm rentals there's very little we can do but that is something that we can do so so to comment on that putting this in here is a good start but it can't be the end because um changing Land Development code is not going to solve the problem of people not following Land Development K right like there are multip examples violations right now and the reason they're violating is because there's no consequence to it right and and again it comes back to there's no consistency right now in our code with who has to register and if everybody has to register it's a Level Playing Field and we can say no you're not exempt owner occupied units I think that's fair to exempt them because they're living in the house they're running out maybe a room or two um I think that that's pretty standard across the board but yeah we need more ability to say you're not doing what you're supposed to to there's a consequence to that and we just don't have it now um because if we have a th000 properties that are stvs and 500 haven't registered we have one attorney and one code enforcement officer and one magistrate we'd have to hire a whole team of people to deal with that to go through that process and say you didn't register 250 a day if you don't there's just not the manpower to do it no city has the ability to really do that um with normal Staffing we'd have to have a whole team so we don't want to do that we want people to come into compliance and for the most part they are but there's always that confusion well what type of property am I do I need to register do I not so by making everybody do it Level Playing Field you know then we know who we can we can go after from that point on assuming the state doesn't pre us that could you remind me where the what section the shortterm vacation R um it's in supplemental standards page 184 um I our uh short-term vacation RS um owners um required to register like all of them from this moment forward once this is passed or do they grandfather them I can't remember that we have not read any grandfathering in if you have one you got to register this will probably take us a while to get caught up you have to reregister Year to your registration this time we're going to get you the next time we'll have to start with a new education campaign like hey our codes changed everybody's got to register now and we've got to give people time to we do have a lot of owners that don't live here so we're going have to give time to reach out to them have registering a short-term Ral is that a standard across like other cities and not everybody does it no saying I honestly wouldn't even know if I had a short teral that it even a even a thing would never cross my mind yeah well we um we have been using a platform that searches them out and then we send them letters to say hey we found you register with the city right they probably do a lot of them do but um we do get a lot of people come inlies so especially the bigger groups that have multiple properties they manage they actually are doing a really good job coming into compliance but some cities require it some cities don't at all because maybe they don't have that many or it's not a problem and we have maybe three problem properties out of a thousand um but it's it's more about getting that safety inspection from the fire marshal and knowing where they are are and if there's a problem we have someone we can contact that's where that responsible party requirement comes into play we have a contact that we can reach out to if there's a Code Enforcement complaint a police department noise complaint that sort of thing so that's kind of the push to make them register if Council decides they don't want to do it anymore this part of the code goes out the window but we can make them register right now the state allows us to do that and that's about it and do inspections suing the definition of shortterm vacational um It also says units renting 50% or less um so it seems like renting 50% or more of the property um but is there a time stipulation that we would want to say because short-term vacation rals somebody might decide to Airbnb for a month or two or three and then so there is yes that's a great question there is a a state definition that we that we're using now so there's two kind of two definitions that come into play there housing which is not permanent housing so that's what the short-term rentals fall under and then it's considered a short-term rental um if they rent more than they rent out more than three times a year for less than 30 days each so that's what qualifies it in the state's eyes as a short-term rental um we clarify that in the code yes it's in it's under definitions um under longer extended definition sanction oh okay yeah in the very beginning of the code so we we fixed match the and I'm looking in page 56 short-term vacation rental does not reference the state code um so we've broken it up a little bit because the 50% that's that owner occupied dwelling unit so I live in my home but I rent out a bedroom as a short-term rental if it's less than 50% of the actual building space not 50% of the time that's what exempts you the state um doesn't I hav reference the statute number but that's oh it's not necessary to reference the state because yeah it's just more consistent with this definition is now more consistent with the statute before we just had single family two family and townhouse we've added multif family in there and where okay and then so the short-term vacation rental definition at the state would apply to this definition even though made this more consistent yes perfect thank yeah and if we need to tweak that we'll double check it but there's there wasn't consistency before because again and that that leads to a lot of confusion so a lot of people go well I don't really know what my property is I'm going to do it well that's not what we want we want everyone to do it so we get that inspection done we can get that contact information it doesn't it's not a big Revenue driver for the city but if you add up a thousand they're just paying the local business tax of $80 a year I mean that adds up right um I think my concern and why I like this registration and opportunity to get more information about it is just frankly because it takes available housing off the market absolutely you know we've got to balance the the desires of the property there and people looking for housing yeah and it is it is unfortunate that what for whatever reason we didn't see it coming and I say that back up 15 years um if you had rules in place prior to 2011 you keep them we did not the city did not we didn't work here so not be for that but we're doing what we can do now and this is this is pretty much it and did you say the fine was 250 per day for so the magistrate can set fines we can't do that administratively but yes that's that's pretty standard $250 a day if you don't come into compliance but usually there's a period of time that you're allowed to bring your property into compliance U we just haven't taken any short-term rentals there it's we have to prove that they're renting and people get sneaky and they take their property off the platform and they put it back on when we're not looking I mean people really truly do that kind of stuff so it's very hard to prove um you have to be like again a dedicated staff just to do that yeah my I guess my my the reason I'm asking that is also just um because folks who don't live here may end up with many thousands of dollars and fines if they're not notified in a timely man not aware of the code change and I don't want them to suffer as much as I want available housing I also don't want property owners who are running them out to you agreed and again with the new code and when we get to the um citation section developing that program and adding that to it we're going to not just start finding people we're going to educate them first I mean that that's one of the main go goals of Code Enforcement is to educate people with what they can and can't do with their property so that they're not violating and the goal is always to get voluntary compliance not to punish them and find them and put leans on their property we don't want to do that we want them to come into compliance so um but again with short-term rentals the state has very very clearly said you cannot ban them unless you had rules in place before 2011 so we're kind of stuck with doing what we can um and hopefully this will help I don't know what it'll do for the housing staff honestly I mean well I think just having some FR and having some data I think is helpful and it'll help us get out threat of a citation it might hopefully bring more people into compliance and just out of curiosity because I know we've talked about before like the state mandated you know can't go against the state why can't we go against the state because we will get sued immediately areay for that CU I'm not do anybody pay for it yeah yeah I mean I mean honestly what at what point do you do cities stand up to the state and say enough's enough and we can't continue to develop the way we want to so we have to put our foot stop we are in the background that's lobbyists do that's what our council members are elected officials they go to Tallahassee every year and they Lobby for the things that we want to see whether we want them to do something or we don't want them to do something so the short-term rental Lobby unfortunately has been stronger than the municipal and County Lobby that says please let us do what we want to do in our communities and they said no you can't ban short-term rentals You Can't Ban food trucks you can't do this you can't do that I mean that it happens every session that's why we keep an eye on what's going on in t to figure out what are they going to tell us we can't do next um because it is a real threat you know and um I don't think that anybody in the city would want to go forward with just changing our rules against the state statute because it wouldn't end well so we're not going to do that good question again though I do think the data the data that you're going to collect through this initiative I think is going to be very valuable because today you can't even point to a number of like this many units are being used for that purpose and this a little closer to having some information It's tricky because again the the company that we've been using and paying to find these units it their information is only good as the information that the people owning and renting the units put out there so it might be a full house and they've called it an apartment so do we make them register or not what is it actually there a lot of manual work that goes into figuring out you know what it actually is what are they renting it for and then like you said someone might just go I'm going to rent my house out for PGA we that's it they do it once they get a letter from us going well I don't rent my house out so there's a lot of of complicated stuff that goes into short ter and registering them and managing that program so wish it was a little bit more clearcut it's not okay all right um and then sign standards hea already kind of alluded to it we allowed A-frame signs and then we also removed um non-conforming poll signs um we wanted to be a little bit more strict on those non-conforming poll signs yeah probably we changed any we we banned po signs a long time ago and there are Provisions in the code basically if they're nonconforming they can stay do minimum of Maintenance but some point they're supposed to come into compliance SS um unfortunately uh after 20 years that hasn't happened there's still a lot of them out there so we're putting in a sunset basically says you've got five years to figure out how to bring your sign compliance so it's a process we used in um the carlington zoning overlay when I was with Jacksonville for landscaping and fening and um it worked pretty well they did one extension out there but I think they had to much um are little um that was it and then for uh subdivision standards we just um changed some final plat language nothing major the public facility standards really just kind of cleaning that one up um development agreements we wanted to make sure it met Florida State statutes um there was um did I take out the site development standards um in landscape standards in article 7 guess I didn't put a bullet point for that but um I was trying to make this presentation sake it's a lot of dry boring stuff so um we did make I feel we made the landscape standards a little bit more clear on who needs to provide what in terms of commercial residential um and we also kind of um added salt tolerant and native trees so you can kind of understand what's salt tolerant uh we felt like that was very important here and then we also added a kind of a quick easy table for you to understand like if I'm on a residential lot what am I required to do um for landscaping the sign standard that's right there's a bunch of Divisions in there you have a page reference for them yep yep so go to 204 so if you're um you know you need a shade tree for every 3,000 sare ft and then if you look at page 200 that's the table where we said like these are shade trees these are high salt tolerant and these are native um so we thought that was helpful um because you know Oaks sometimes don't like to be super close to the ocean right and we had a lot of um you know developers and landscaper um Architects asking well what can I plant well now we have a list so hopefully that's going to be you know easier for folks to to digest and make those decisions on what they want to plant what's considered a shade tree that sort of thing yeah previously the reference doc anymore yeah lots of old references I don't I can't even find this one was uple I couldn't even find U okay yeah so uh non-conforming uh non conformities we uh increase the maintenance and repair limit from 15 to 35% of the assessed value um we did oh back to Christian's point we added flexibility for non-forming existing historic single families to remain in place so that kind of goes back to trying to preserve that character of these existing homes that have been here for 60 years 70 years and then the enforcement proceedings uh that's the last one that's where we added that we can do citations now and once we kind of get our feet under us we'll figure out the fee schedule and how that works but at least now we have a tool in the tool box for that um page references are valuable as you're doing through your okay good I'll tab those kind of special ones yeah I should have tabed live we're just right yeah even I'm not keeping up with her right now um we covered all the sections we want to make sure we get all your your questions answered and we realize you guys have not read all 316 Pages we wouldn't have expected you to because that's just ridiculous but David you read all the pages just just never even seen um but we really want to encourage you guys to meet with us over the next two weeks because when we come back to you on the 27th which by the way that meeting is at parks this room is not available they're upgrading all the a equipment so we want you guys to be prepared so please please please reach out to me or Christian or both and we'll take as much time with each one of you individually as you need to get any questions answered if you find typos I know they're going to be in there we've done the best we can all of us up here including people who aren't sitting here have HED through this document yeah um staff internally to my department is going through it now as well because the more eyes we can get on it the better we're going to miss stuff I mean it's a huge document probably wrong to begin with not yeah probably something that's a good point um but we really have have tried to listen to everything that everybody has provided in all of the opportunities and workshops and so forth yeah thank you I think that's a valid point I mean we tried to take all those workshops and take the concerns of the citizens and y'all and Council and really try to make the compl and the development code reflect make it make sense and there you know back to the short-term rental it's like cancel them get rid of them we can't do that so at least we came up with some kind of way to help a little bit Mar you had a question yeah I I just I understood that we probably need to meet oneon-one but I do have one um kind of question that's a little bit more Global than just specific please um it on page 13 there a definition of bedroom um and in 1 a it says for site the dwellings um it's a room that can be used for for sleeping that has a minimum of 70 ft of conditioned space so I don't I don't know what condition space is and condition is not um and maybe it's a term of art that everybody knows what mean well so that those are um a lot of our definitions are FL yes it is it's Florida building definition of what is considered a bedroom yeah so conditioned is is air conditioned space cool re but not air so not a garage not a shed not an unfinished space okay so so that that's just one like yeah and there are going to be a lot of new definitions in here that are Florida building code or statute that weren't in here before and that now that you know it's going to new to everybody okay um the the largic question though is um for siteb built dwellings you need to have 70 square ft and for manufactured homes you only need to have 50 square ft and so we put in the comp plan um that we want to look at housing affordability and different ways to get there including tiny homes and Bungalow courts and like all those things um by putting the minimum square footage of the the house itself which we also do like some communities are not doing that anymore or being more liberal about allowing for smaller homes we're doing accessory dwelling units yes we're doing that but that's pretty limited so we're kind of excluding and we're also not having the community conversation um in a way that I'm familiar with about what's going to work in Jack be so I I just that that's kind of the philosophical I appreciate that we I don't I don't see it in this because we doing so some of those definitions like that are our Florida building code for example we're we're going to go with that because we don't really have the ability to go outside of it um but we did decrease the minimum square footage in all of our residential zoning districts by at least 100 square feet each if not more so we did reduce the minimum size like so right now rs1 is600 square feet I think we took that down to, 1400 square and we can go even lower but we've we've kind of got push back yeah we we decreased it a little bit someone could still do a tiny home Village if they if we did it creatively there's ways to do it for example right okay but we've added studio for example as a product you know not not a Venter we've added the adus so we we've added some stuff I think that will help with that a little bit okay I I I guess what what I'm really kind of going for is the community conversation about what's going to work in Jack and I don't think we're really doing that and that's beyond the scope of what we're doing here probably yeah but it just a thought it sort of made me kind of realize I'm the comp plan and of course they're they're supposed to be visions and they're supposed to you know look way out and stuff but still how do you get there yeah um and the other thing is we're we're kind of not articulating um that we are allowing for smaller homes I don't know right are we telling the community we're consciously doing this because we're going in that direction I don't know I've made a note of this because um at the The Briefing right before this Council was talking about their next set of priorities moving forward we've got the Strategic plan almost all the projects in there have been done are really getting close to completion they're going to start over again and say all right we did this batch what are we going to be looking forward to the next four to five years and that might be one of the discussions that they want to have and I'm I'm going to bring it up to the city manager and and at least get it on everybody's radar for perhaps a council priority moving forward to to discuss that and discuss where you know what that looks like so I think that's a really good point um because again we all know what live local is but it might not happen in Jack beach ever because property values are so high um so we might have to look at other ways to encourage affordable housing beyond what we can do here beyond what the state has provided as as a tool um there's no reason why we can't come up with our own ways to encourage that incentivize that so you're right it isn't the full discussion that's been had on its own kind of you know to discuss that in in um in specifics but I think it's a good conversation that needs to be have so no I I and maybe just to add to that I think you're have a good point we tend to like get in the leads and we're not like hey what we're doing this for why are we doing this and there's so many things that we've changed that it's hard to kind of you know it's hard to I mean I think that's worth kind of saying that you know there's intention here yeah we're going refer to the comp plan you know made it way into the comp so baby steps I mean it's as you know I think you're the one that called the code elderly or Jerry a is like right on the mark it is I hope this is much better um I I hope that we provided a lot more tools for everybody to use Developers homeowners businesses you know that's the goal really is to provide not say this is what it is end the story but let's provide a bigger toolbox with more Tools in it and hopefully we've done that and again we're going to look at it more often than we've been doing in the last several decades and say what's working what's not what do we need to tweet so it's our code we can do that what's the revision period to say on this the what how often is it going to be looked at every year yearly for for us internally annually okay um it might not come before Planning Commission or Council unless you find the need to change to tweak something or if you guys or Council has brought something to our attention they want to discuss asking is there going to be a a specific Planning Commission meeting yearly yeah what what I would like to do is be able to provide everybody with kind of like a year-end you know Outlook like especially next year come this time next year you know our code's a year old what did we find that's working what maybe needs to be tweaked and and really report out to you guys and and vice versa you guys have your it's not codified in here no it's not that's more of a policy thing for our department yeah well it is actually in the very beginning it says it'll be reviewed I think at least every five years um I think it says at least every five years where we would look at it holistically but internally from a policy standpoint we'll be looking at it I think it's worth to consider a one Planning Commission meeting per year to do this yeah right any changes anything from the professional planners to the commission saying here's your not yeah that's that's on our agenda to provide that to you guys and to council as well you know here's here's what we've discovered with our new code and that's one of the things we're going to talk about the bylaw stage is how these guys are going to be structuring your time and things like that so that would be a good place to put that because there is a vague reference to having an organizational meeting once a year but it's not really defined so we've tried to put that in the bylaws so and we we'll bring those to you once we get through this stage they won't be officially adopted until after this is but we will probably in February start talking about that so um I like what you said Mar about expressing the intent in there I mean although it's a code having some kind of subjective intent behind what's in the code there I think makes a lot of sense you're referencing out to comp plan I like that a lot um the other thing just uh question on process here um so I have a handful of notes handful of things that I might recommend or think about uh that I want to share with youall does that end up in the code does it is it brought up for conversation did I miss the vote on that one it could no no that's why we wanted to do this workshop with you guys as opposed to just bringing it to you and be like vote because that's not very productive and we did that with Council we had kind of that last workshop with them so um as you get your list finalized like schedule a meeting with us and we'll go through it and if it's little stuff we might be able to just tweak it um if it's something larger then we'll kind of look at it examine that and then bring that to you as a potential change at the next meeting awesome and this is changeable over time so six weeks from now this is approved or 8 weeks from now this is approved and we're all moving forward this is mutable we can bring up changes to discuss go on Etc yep y that's the beauty about the Land Development code y code right you don't have to go to the state when you want to make changes if you want to make changes to the comp plan get it in the state we fully expect to have to do with Bill a year there's definely we anticipate con so just so we're 100% clear on this any we will I'm sure many members will come and discuss this with you over the next two weeks any recommended change has to happen through the Planning Commission on the 27th from us yes yes and so either it's something we discuss as a group and we make that change prior to taking it to Council in February or if it's we if we're not able to do it at that point in time we would kind of make it a u recommendation from the Planning Commission hey they've approved it but we want to add this or tweak this or what have you so there's different ways we can do it either way it's something that we're not going to change ahead of time going to council we'll make it as like a recommendation because they'll review that ordinance twice so we have time to make any last minute tweaks changes Corrections things like that than can I ask for maybe an Annoying Thing feel free to say no but I saw this in presentation going through and just to make sure everything is sort of clean there's um a couple of references in your summary that say this was changed and then there are some that say this was changed from this to this and it explains the Delta and for those of us who are going to be working our butts off to get through all 300 Pages before we have to um have a formal opinion on it is there is it possible does there already exist a document that explains the Delta so for example when you say something like um updated permitted and conditional uses in each zoning District it was this now it is this do we have something like that for reference or do I have to pull up the old one and find it and find the new one yeah I mean really because we're doing a a full replacement um the the redline version just doesn't exist because it's been done literally over the last two years incremental changes as we go through the process and all these workshops where we've got new information to change um we can because some of it's like we updated it to be consistent with building code or statute we're not going to tell you everything that we changeed because it might be hundreds of instances within the entire document where that's changed so that's why it's kind of a blanket statement um because it's just too much to kind of share that if that makes sense well right and that a wholesale update of certain things that's why I'm asking is you know a complete rewrite a lot of stuff can be lost in there sure yeah I definitely appreciate that or or put in there exactly right and um you know being a lethian you know sort of 300 Page document the average citizen are going to read I would say probably 10% of us maybe 20 nobody's reading it but literally Christian and I every day I we're every day and myself and and that's the thing there there are some tiny things in here that may lead to more administrative burden I honestly don't I couldn't even guess how many times it might come up maybe never but there's a little bit of officiation here in some places but then I'm also just putting myself in the shoes of the citizens of sure Jack sort of to what you you referen Maro and and just how do we make this parsimonious and easy to understand for them um because I don't want them coming look I I want them to have the full trust in the city that the changes made are um at the level of fidelity that I think a citizen would would want in a code change like this and making line itm Simple Red Line changes is like everybody can look at the Delta and see what that is I get that I don't I don't know what to there one of the good things about this we all do these massive book things all the time I do work all the time 20% or 80% of what we comes into effect So 20% is what we need what we work on most of the time of the whole Corpus probably less than that in my time so I I think this stuff will work out and I think we should look at whatever we want to talk about but I'm not going to get too wrapped around the axle uh trying to read every word in here because I know the sections that we live in right and that's why we want to those out and again we have been in this document for the last two years working out the nitty-gritty details because that's that's our job so that's what we're here to do is to work that out so you're you're right it is hard to describe every single change that we made because again some of them are wholesale some are the nitty-gritty details and that's what we really wanted to share with you guys and that's the little things we've talked to council about over the course of all these workshops those kind of bigger things that are going to be very impactful you know Asos to like well we you know we just made everything consistent with Statute in Florida building code that's pretty self-explanatory we don't want to burden you with all the little details with that kind of stuff it's the bigger stuff that we really want to focus on and and like Dave said what's going to be pertinent to this group it's going to be different for city council and different for board ofy gritty comes up we'll all be here we'll all be talking about it and it will be clear to everybody on that particular little video when we leave this is how we're looking at because I've just seen it done too many times with this group so but there there's something about the storytelling that they kind of as this goes to the public to kind of tell them the big picture like it wasn't it wasn't um immediately obvious to me that we were going in an affordable housing Direction so I I think maybe this this stepping back on the story um and I I you know I don't know how you get that that word out but you know updating because we had a lot of housekeeping to do and because it's an elderly document honestly the public will get that and not necessarily have a a question um but then we're also we're also implementing our comprehensive plan going in those directions so maybe there's just a way to kind of highlight it just in the press release yeah and and also we're implementing the Strategic plan what's that that's the purpose of the comp plan provide you a general direction that you're you're free to move in under State guidelines right right and this yeah this is implementing our comp and it's also implenting the council's Strategic plan as well and ATI just the linkage that do have a vision for for example I'll just use this one example one of the um Council priorities in the Strategic plan was to preserve single family neighborhoods and we have come up with every idea we possibly can to do that in a lot of different parts of the code so preserving historic single family allowing adus at single family and multif family where the density is not impacted um decreasing housing size uh minimal non-con so we've we've done got a lot of little things here and there and it some of that is in that one document that I said was blue and yellow but I think it's green and yellow uh for some of these things because we wanted to make sure that these priorities set forward by Council that ultimately originated from the community or addressed where we could address them here some aren't for this document or this stage but um we did what we could with the ones that we could so I think I understand what you're saying as far as making sure we tell the story to the community we yeah we said we do it we're doing it and we know she's going to be yelling at all of us tomorrow so um I'd like to make a suggestion that Dean in matter the closest we have to people that are the C just citizens of of Jack's Beach right we the rest of us sitting here for a bare minimum of a year looking at this stuff so there's a lot of stuff we kind of take for granted um on what you've got right here is it possible just to I'm sure we still have a copy of the old Land Development code you don't got one in my Den back at home yes we do it's still on uni code can we just annotate it with the section that it was in the openland development code for these things um yeah we could we didn't move too much around we did move something you just put an indication of the section that it was in and just print out a copy Land Development code you can see what the old Land Development code said for these things it' be helpful it'd be helpful to see the reference I think it would be useful for the average citiz again y this is this is great I don't want what I'm saying to minimize no I totally understand because it is hard to go back and forth we're doing the same thing because we're not looking at a Redline version either we're going well I know it says this and I've got this open and I have Unicode open on my computer right I mean that's the only way to do it because the red line is too much we took whole sections out the door this whole section moved over here so it's so mun code the nice way to mun code is what's adopted now so that we have what then then this is the the proposed new version that's not adopted um so it is hard to go back and forth because whole sections have changed numbers so we can do our best to try to provide that it might be a little messy but well we do our best if if it's not feasible to do that or you know a little bit unreasonable um or maybe not going to be useful then as part of the storytelling I do think it's worthwhile to explain to people that this is a rewrite and it's not it's not a line item change yeah that's super clear to people yeah and we have again if you look at that first attachment that's in your packets it out it lists all the workshops we have and that has been the message all along yeah that's been the message all along is community said they wanted this Council made the Strategic plan and we're now updating all of our stuff based on all of those workshops Community conversations that were had years ago with the council and the city manager and the community and business owners and literally Tak all the this information and try to boil it down into how do we make that implementable you know how do we put that in the code so people say they want this how do we put it in the code so that can that can happen so it's a hundred different issues and that that's the complication with waiting so long to do something like this to your code is that we were making up for it a lot of time where instead of keeping up with the times and changing the code as we went along we're now doing it all at once cool I mean that that's really which is scary I'm not going to lie keeps me up it yeah I want this to work I live here too I'm a resident just like you guys it's going to work I want this to work just as much as you guys and Council because it impacts me too um I really encourage you guys please meet with us if you have questions even if it's dumb questions typos that's what we're here for so you don't reach out to us you just call you out yes I'll not to use too much your time no totally fine again that's what we're here for we're anticipating meeting with everybody including Council so that's what we would prefer to happen instead of you guys come to the meeting with more questions and we can kind of knock that stuff out ahead of time any other things you guys have to kind of wrap this up yeah and is there a planning department report I assume not just our next meeting pleas come to the meeting on the 27th in advance let you know where it's going to be and what time we get kind of blindsided by the renovations going on here so have time to where's Park um South Beach park down there where the fire station and the park we we'll make sure you guys have the address we have in theground you want to have it in the play skate yeah we're having the pickle B Court you got 60-minute block exactly I think we're adjourned yes have two Dum questions for thank you