Good evening. Good evening everyone. We are on the record. Today is Monday, the 12th day of April, 2026. This is a regular meeting of the rent protection special investigation committee. We had a scheduled 5:00 p.m. start and the clock on my cell phone is showing 5:06
p.m. May we have a roll call for the commencement of this meeting? Zupa. Councilman Zupa >> present. >> Councilman Efos >> present. >> Councilwoman Little >> present. Councilman Gilmore is on the way. Councilwoman Singh >> present.
>> Councilman Griffin. >> Councilman Lavaro >> here. Okay. So, we have four council members in attendance. Yes, sir. Oh, I'm sorry. We have five council
members in attendance at 5:07 p.m. Can we kindly rise for a salute of the flag? Thank you very much. On behalf of the members of the rent protection special investigation committee in accordance with the New Jersey public laws of 1975
chapter 231 the open public meetings act also known as the sunshine law. Adequate notice of this meeting has been provided by posting on the bulletin board of the first floor of Jersey City of the city hall. In addition, at the time of its preparation, the notice of this meeting was similarly disseminated on Thursday,
April 9th, 2026 at 4:34 p.m. to the mayor, municipal council, business administrator, corporation council, and the local newspapers and posted on the city's website so I can certify as to our total compliance with the sunshine law.
At this time, I'll turn it over to Council Person Little. >> Right. Um, thank you so much for being here today. Um, I'm acting as chair for the moment. Um, our chair, Frank Gilmore, is Councilman Frank Gilmore is
on his way and, um, when he gets here, I will let him sit in the in the hot seat here. But um I want to thank Director Chyon Richardson and um the staff of the division of housing preser preservation for attending today and being willing to
answer our questions. Um I appreciate being able to have a a open and genuine dialogue with you. Um so just are those microphones you prefer to answer the questions sitting or you prefer to go up to the podium? It's up to you.
>> They they rather sit. So that's why I set up the mics for them. And if you wouldn't mind, council person Little, if they can identify themselves for the record. Uh, and you can start with >> Morning, Madam Chairwoman. My name is Jim Carroll. I'm the president of the
Jersey City Management Association. I'm here today. >> Yep. I'm okay. Good. Good evening, Council Person Little. I am Jim Carroll. I'm the president of the Jersey City Management Association and I'm here today representing my members Shyron
director Shyron Richardson uh director Eric Bowworth and uh and John Noel. >> Who is the third person? David John Noel. Good evening, council director Shro Richardson from the original house of
preservation. Yes, good evening. Michael Bucoski. I'm an attorney on behalf of the association as well as derivatively the unit members that you called to question today. I'm sorry. Would you just repeat your
your title again? You're attorney on which litigation? >> I am the attorney for the Jersey City Management Association. The individuals that you called to testify today are members of that association. So, I'm here on behalf of
the union and derivatively on behalf of those unit members. >> Understood. Thank you. Do we have any other introductions or or or the other folks here are not planning to testify or sorry my name is Janna Noel just in case
any questions need to be assisted with I am um the manager for the Office of Landlord Tener Relations. Thank you. >> Good evening. Good evening, council people and uh Council Commissioner Little. Uh my name is Eric Bullwith. I'm
the assistant director for Division of Housing Preservation. >> Okay. Thank you. Just wanted to get everyone everyone's names in the record. I appreciate that. Um so I guess with that being said, I think uh we will open it up to questions if that's all right.
Sure. Um not sure if we have uh structure of how we want to um ask questions or what our timeline is for this meeting today or time span of the meeting is today. But I have a number of questions if the
committee is okay with it that I would love to start asking. Um yeah, thank you uh director and others for being here today. uh appreciate your willingness to come share your perspective um and so that we can really get to the bottom of what's going on with the lack of
enforcement in in Jersey City particularly around rent control. Um so I I wanted to start to talk about uh the process in which uh rent control um is enforced or not enforced um and namely
around proactivity versus reactivity. So, how is chapter 260 being proactively uh enforced as opposed to just through tenant petitions only? And what kind of proactive enforcement work is the office performing beyond processing petitions?
Um, other than directing tenants to file petitions, what enforcement actions does the office of landlord tenant relations itself initiate under chapter 260? And if there's any breakdown that can be provided among cases that are office initiated versus cases that are tenant
initiated, that would be helpful. Any kind of data as to how many enforcement actions the office has initiated independently in the last 3 years, for instance, without a tenant petition. I know I have a few questions wrapped into that. So, I'm going to stop. >> Are you planning on because we were issued some questions. So, I'll be
looking at the questions that were already issued because if we're going in that order, I'm prepared to answer. please. >> Okay. Thank you. Okay. I want to first uh begin by addressing any proactive measures and actually before that um I would like to have it noted on the
record that um in these proceedings has already been seemingly predetermined that no enforcement has been taken place. Um, I find that a little bit and I spoke to Councilman Frank Gilmore a little bit uh uh unfair because it seems
like that position has already been made before even one question was asked to say that there's no enforcement. So I want to just uh before addressing proactive measures, I think it's really important for this body to understand how the office operates and the scope of
current enforcement that is taking place. The first thing I want to just uh put on the record is the role of the office of tenant landlord relations. Please understand that in the title we are the office of tenant landlord and not tenant tenant. And so we have to
have a fair uh we have to uh enforce this fairly for both tenants and landlords. Unfortunately we are not allowed to be biased. So the office of tenant landlord relations administers and enforces the rent control ordinance chapter 260 of the jersey city municipal
code and provides education information and referrals to city residents in connection with landlord tenant issues. The second thing which I think is very important to understand is that this enfor enforcement is done primarily through clerical enforcement and
registration oversight. The office's primary enforcement functions are administrative in nature, specifically receiving and reviewing landlord registration statements for all residents residential properties in Jersey City, not only those subject to
rent control under section 260-2. These registration statements are essential in determining the legal base rents for all rent control buildings and are critical in evaluating illegal rent increases and failure to maintain uh
petition services. These petitions ensure that the tenants are informed of the necessary details to verify whether their current rent or any proposed rent increase is indeed lawful. Additionally,
any landlord claiming exemption from 260 must provide supporting documentation to substantiate their claim. Finally, we have a complaintdriven enforcement approach. Similarly to how law enforcement relies upon reported
activity to initiate investigation, the office relies on landlord registration and tenant complaints as the foundation of its enforcement process. Again, the office does not presume that a landlord is acting in bad faith without
supporting evidence just as we would not be here had the council not first receive complaints. And I want to make it my final note and thank you for allowing me I've heard my name so much so thank you for giving me a little bit of time to speak back. Um,
I want to also as a point of reference, I believe that once we go through this tonight, you'll see that the office of landlord tenant as well as the division of housing preservation does not have an enforcement issue as much as it has an employment issue. When I first got to the office, there were at least seven
members of just the landlord tenant office alone. over the last three years for a substantial amount of time we were down to three employees to cover the over 70 I believe somebody said 70,000 uh uh buildings or tenants rather in the
city. So with that being said, I just want to make it clear that with a very short underpaid and overworked staff, I believe we have done a substantial job to doing the best we can with the resources that we have. To your question number one, how is chapter 6 260 being
enforced proactively rather than only through tenant petitions. The office proactively enforces 260 through receiving and reviewing landlord registrations, reviewing rent control exemption request, and notifying tenants
of their property rent control status. The second part of that question you asked me is what proactive enforcement work is the office performing beyond processing petitions? Publicly accessible rent control lists. This has
been the goal for the past three years and this is why enforcement efforts have been geared toward issuing summones to landlords who fail to file their registration. Our enforcement efforts have proven effective as we have substantially increased the number of
annual registrations on file where when I first took the office we were receiving approximately 900 annual landlord registration statements due to these summones that we've been issuing. We have now received in 2025 approximately 1,500 landlord
registrations from a rent control exemption standpoint. Want to put this out there. Beginning in 2023, we begin working with the office of construction code to receive all newly issued certificates of
occupancy. Once received, our office will contact contact the property owner to advise them of their registration requirement and to inform them that proof of compliance with the new construction exemption must be submitted
to our office immediately if they wish to claim this such exemption. We also advise them that they must provide a written statement to all prospective tenants advising them of the property's rent control status. More recently, and in response to the mayor's executive
order, the office has been mailing out notices to all of the tenants at at a property to notify them that the property is subject to rent control and to the provisions of the rent control ordinance. The notice also provides our office contact information should they
have any additional questions. And these are just a few of the things that we have tried to proactively do as well as the things we've already been doing. So uh you are saying now you have three employees in >> so yes ma'am I'm sorry I'm sorry I'm
>> please I am just curious to learn >> so we just hired a fourth employee but she's still in her probationary period but for the last almost two years we were down to three employees >> then the number of cases went up 900
to500 >> correct and that's with a low staff Why is that just cutest? >> Well, one of the reasons is because uh when I first got there because of the COVID pandemic, we were not allowed to issue some. And so, not long after my
beginning of my tenure, the mayor at the time gave us permission to start issuing some. So, once we started issuing no summones for failure to to register, that's when our numbers increased. So in 25 24 25 you had three employees
or nine employees. Why the >> 2025 ma'am? >> Yes. >> Yes. 2025 we were down to about three. We just got we just got the new one in the last >> when did you have nine employees? What year? >> No, I never had nine. I when when the when I first took the position the
previous director had about seven employees. >> Okay. When I came in, we lost one, two, three immediately when I first came in. So, we immediately were down to four because uh we had a part-time person who was a lawyer and she was issued she was helping to issue petitions, do
determinations. She left with the previous with the previous director and then somebody else who actually uh Miss Janna, she was promoted to become the manager of the office of landlord tenant. thereby the duties that she was doing she couldn't do them at the same capacity because now she'd become the
manager of the whole office and that and and so Janna's position I didn't get somebody else and then on top of that there was another employee who transferred to the office of JC and so she she transferred about two months after me getting there and again she was not replaced at that time.
>> Thank you. >> You're so welcome and again I apologize if I'm speaking too soon. I'm sorry. >> Oh you're perfect. Thank you. I I have a I have some more questions and and sure um I want to let other committee members speak as well, but just to to address um
what you said at the beginning. Um you know, I think from the first committee meeting that that we all had, uh I don't think any one of us insinuated in any way that there is no enforcement happening of rent control. Um that it's down to zero enforcement of rent control
or 260. But it is very clear from constituent concerns and resident concerns from across the city, whether it's at city council meetings or through other just our we get our phone calls uh that residents are experiencing a lack of enforcement whether it's of 260 or
218 or other uh codes in um in our city. And so these genuine concerns are motivating this committee's assignment here. Um and you know I appreciated the comment. I absolutely understand and the only reason I reference that is because I watched the first meeting and I
actually spoke to the dignified uh my my friend uh uh Councilman Frank Gilmore and I heard it on record to be said that I'm going to let the cat out the back that there was zero enforcement taking place and so based on that particular statement to say that there was zero enforcement taking place. I do understand and we're here to collaborate
because if things can be done better but to start from the standpoint that's saying that your office is not doing anything to me that puts us at a disadvantage when you're not coming to say what are you guys doing we're already accusing you that you're not doing anything. I think that's a totally different dialogue that we're trying to
have today. >> Yeah. Yeah. And what we're trying to have today is to get to the bottom of uh where the gaps in enforcement are. >> Absolutely. So, just to to build on a little bit of of what you're saying, um it just it sounds like the proactive approach is uh less about looking for
where maybe systemic violations are happening throughout the city. Uh trying to go to buildings that um fit certain kind of criteria for recurring cases or uh fit certain demographics within the city that there are recurring issues in.
um and more so sending out those kinds of notices to try and preempt issues. I'm I'm curious uh about how you feel like those notices are are being effective, whether you feel like they're being effective. Um are they being tracked, whether landlords are actually
getting those notices to tenants? Is there any way of following up to make sure that tenants are receiving these notices, that they're understanding them, uh that they are, you know, understood. I actually Janna I'm going to she asked me not to make her speak but since she sent out the notices I want to see if do you want to add
anything to that particular question. Yes ma'am. Yeah. >> Good evening council. Um so just to start I do think just from our numbers it's proven that our summones have been effective. Um, we issued over 913
summones within the past three years for landlords who have failed to comply. And the way that our office enforces the rent control ordinance really is geared towards whether the property is subject to rent control or not. And without that information and without registrations on
file, it's difficult to determine how we should be enforcing the rent control ordinance, sorry, per property. So we have taken as director Richardson said a more proactive approach in trying to identify these properties. Um and that's really where our enforcement efforts
have been geared. So we have seen an significant increase in the number of registrations that we have received on an annual basis like director Richardson said in the past six years we went from receiving 900 registrations to 1500 registrations. And so you can imagine if
we're track trying to track the rents that are in all those properties, if we were already understaffed at that time, we now are responsible for 900 more properties or or x at this point 600 more properties. So it's just a matter of not that we don't want to enforce
because we are right because the the primary work um flow of our office is the registrations. It tells us so much information, you know. So that's really where our efforts have been geared or getting those registrations into the office so we have contact information for landlords so if we do need to
mediate we can and pro getting the rents on file so that we could start identifying those illegal rent increases. >> I appreciate that. I have a lot of questions about the the registration list but I want to allow some other committee members to jump in here. >> Thank thank you director. Good evening.
Um, I wasn't at that first meeting. So, I want you to know that I'm going into this hearing uh open eyed and and willing to listen without any preconceived notions. I I do want to ask though, I had requested at a prior council meeting of the BA's office that you issue a report to this council. Uh,
and I was told you'd be issuing to this committee dealing directly with the port side violations and the status. Do do you have a report to provide today? So >> if the question is is there an update on the report? I do not have one. I'm happy to confer with the BA. Oh,
>> and just to be clear, my question is not the status of any litigation. >> Okay. Thank you. I actually um I want to see if I can find a date. Um, on February 4th, I actually send um uh sent this report to the council president and
from my understanding, she sent it to everybody else. Uh, in this report, it pretty much outlines and and so I can read I've given it to you, but I'll read it for you because this is not connected to the litigation. >> Uh, is that what you want? >> Possibly, but let me backtrack. So, what
what I do want to ask you is some basic foundational questions on on process. So, let's start there. >> Sure. Uh, and none of my qu I'm not none of my questions are meant to confuse you. So, if you don't understand, it means I asked it poorly. So, feel free to ask me to repeat it. Uh, what what is
the process for initiating a complaint that your your office would receive? You said you're you're mostly uh complaint based the way law enforcement is. So, take me through the process of a complaint being initiated with your office and go from there. >> So, we'll use this particular situation.
I believe this would be okay. Um so a resident prior to my tenure port side reached out uh possibly have reached out to the office and they uh can call and say I feel like this is the situation I'm in. I feel like my rent is illegal.
Um at that time um we would make sure we do our due diligence to make sure that that property is indeed subject to rent control. If it's not subject to rent control, then there's not much we can do beyond that in terms of dictating their rent. Once that is said, we uh suggest
that they issue file, I'm sorry, an illegal rent petition. What that does is that it gives us a process of getting discovery from both the tenant and the landlord. In that particular case, um the petition was issued, a determination was made in September, I believe it was
2022. Um after the determination is made whether it's for or against the tenant. So if it's for the tenant or against the landlord, both parties have 15 days to appeal that determination. Once that determination is appealed, it goes to the rent leveling board. At the time it
goes to the rent leveling board, it is no longer in our jurisdiction. Once the rent leveling board looks at the determination, they can either uh approve it, deny it or resend it. uh in this particular case the the rent leveling board they sided with the tenant whereas uh the first director
Dian Henden had sided with the landlord after that determination is made there's another 15-day appeal process that either party can have and as you guys know it goes into litigation um in that particular case by the time I had gotten here it the the tenants at that time had
already been 60 days at least past the appeal process the moment that I took the office. Immediately what began to happen is I begin to be get harassed. I have members of my church here today. We were threatened by the tendants that they were going to come pick at our
service uh in order to make me rescend the determination. At that time, we told them that they were more than welcome to come to church as long as they would not turn this into something outside of a worship experience. >> Right. I think we're getting getting outside of my question. >> No problem. This this is the report. So, I'm just starting
>> I'm just asking specifically about port side. My question was more basic than that. You get a complaint, there's an investigation done by your office, correct? >> And as and and so if they so the investigation is based upon the petition, right? So once the petition is made, so let's say in illegal rent
petition, we'll we'll go through the process of getting you have to go through the landlord registrations. You have to go and see you have to look at things like tenant turnover. You have to go to each month depending on the month that the person was in there. The CPI changes per month. Once all of that
information is compiled and you can make the determination whether or not the rent was illegal or it was legal to us, it's just a determination. Once we make the determination, if it's now between the landlord and tenant, they have if it's for they have 30 days to reconcile
that amongst themselves if they so choose >> before it goes to the rent leveling board. >> If they don't appeal now, if they don't appeal, it does not automatically go to the rent leveling board. It only goes to them in cases when it's appealed. What about violations alleged
uh at rent controlled properties? Does that go to your office? >> What are you talking What type of violations? Can you be more specific, please? >> Um an allegation. Let's use um there's so many. Let's use uh security at at a
at a rent control property with a certain number of units, right? >> Security that falls in, I believe, 254. That would be more of a co- compliance issue on security. >> Okay. So on that particular issue, unrelated to your office, right? >> Okay. What about um superintendent on site?
>> So superintendent on site uh that would fall under our office. And so what we do again is we use the landlord registration statement because within the landlord registration statement, they would have to show us that there's a superintendent, what unit they're in, what and their their contact information, all of that would be in the
landlord registration statement. If we find so if there's a complaint and we've had those complaints and we go back to the registration and on the registration there's not proof that there's a superintendent there we have issued summones to that property for not having a superintendent on it. >> Right. So that's when your investigation
would indicate that a summon should be corrected >> and that issue that summon is issued through the municipal prosecutor's office or through >> that that particular summon is issued through our office >> and who prosecutend >> sir >> that's prosecuted in the mun in municipal court. Correct. >> Correct. Correct.
>> By our municipal prosecutor's office, >> sir. >> Yes, sir. >> Okay. Uh, what followup does your office do to determine whether once a summon has been issued that the alleged violation is abated by the landlord
>> in terms of so once a summon is issued that becomes for us the jurisdiction of the municipal prosecutor's office. We've not been in contact with them in terms of following up to see what what happens after that. >> Okay. So, for example, there were uh we
heard the number was 913 summones issued in the last 3 years. Would you know how many of those resulted in in guilty verdicts or please? >> No, sir. Not at all. >> Would you know how many fines were collected by the city? >> No, sir. Not at all. Not without speaking to the prosecutor's office.
>> Okay. Uh when you Two more questions, I'm almost done. uh when your office issues the summons, the same way a police officer would be the key the the leading witness, someone from your office would be the witness that gets a subpoena to attend to court,
right? Or to >> if they ask to come in. Absolutely. >> Okay. >> As if they ask us to come in. Sometimes they'll just ask for a discovery to ask us what do we what do we use as a basis for the summons? They rarely ask us to actually testify in in a case like that. They could just look at the landlord
registration and sometimes that's enough discovery for them to say based on what we have that's we don't need you guys to testify. You've given us the paperwork. >> Have you ever asked the municipal prosecutor's office to issue a report of how many summones that you issued resulted in fines being collected by the
city? >> Oh sir. >> Of the 913 is a big number, right? It's it's a lot of work to be done. What I'm trying to find out, I think what this committee is trying to find out is what happens next. Do does anyone have an update of
how many cases actually were prosecuted successfully? Meaning that >> there was a violation found and sustained in court. >> I would believe in the same way that there are certain questions the municipal prosecutor can answer uh as it directs to me. I don't I'm not in a position to answer those questions on behalf of the municipal prosecutor.
We're more than willing to work with him if that becomes something that we're looking to do in the future. But then that is another added burden that you will be asking us to do when an office is already doing that. >> Okay. So, so staying within your wheelhouse then. Yes, sir. How many >> how many times have your employees
testified in municipal court in the last year? >> I wouldn't know that off the top of my head. Not and for landlord tenant. Please understand my office. So, you have an office, but we also deal with short-term rentals. We also deal with lead abatements. We also deal with lead
lead inspections. We also did with vacant properties. So landlord tenant is just one slither of what our office does. So as it relates to test testifying, I would top of my head think maybe 20 times we may have had somebody but none
of it to me was landlord tenant related. A lot of it could fall under short-term rentals, >> meaning violations issued to short-term rentals. Yes. >> When there were alleged illegal Airbnbs, for example. >> Absolutely. And anytime we we're asked to come, we're more than willing to come. Do you have a report on how many
of those summones issued to short-term rentals were resulted in in fines being issued to the to the defendant? >> No, not off the top of my head. And and because that was not the the uh the the reason for this meeting, if you just reach out to me, I can gladly get you
those numbers. >> Okay. >> Couple quick things just following up if I councilman Zupa. Um you mentioned that security was outside of the scope. security is in 218 article one um uniform security service does that mean
that that you feel like that >> 218 right >> so that is within the scope of >> no not me no we we our practice has been for the security that 218 that that's been the pro the prosecutor or the office of code compliance I'm sorry code compliance would handle that >> okay so your office is not doing any of
the enforcement work 218 >> and just for background before uh at one point code compliance and division of housing preservation used to be one office, but they split and once they split, then code compliance became its own entity and they took basically all the inspectors with them. >> Understood. And then on the on the note
about superintendent disclosure, on October 23rd, 2025, landlord at Portide Towers plead guilty in municipal court to 71 superintendent disclosure violations at $2,000 per summons. Um January 8th status
conference, assistant prosecutor Vishnu Kamarj uh represented to the court that the landlord was in compliance based on information received from the division division of housing preservation. Um and clarified that housing preservation had confirmed that the landlord had notified
the division of a superintendent. Um, but there seems to be a discrepancy between the state DCA requirements of uh someone being on site and the actual municipal chapter 260 requirements. So uh there the there is no superintendent
uh at foresight towers relevant to the code 260 requirements. So, I just would love to understand um why did those 260 obligations go uninforced as if the the separate state level DCA posting requirements uh were sufficient as opposed to that landlord meeting the
more specific disclosure requirements under chapter 260? Could you answer that question again? I've been instructed not to answer that question specifically to port side because they're in litigation. So can you make that more general please? >> Okay. More generally, um, is the office
distinguishing between the requirements of the municipal level 260, uh, the municipal level requirements under chapter code 260 for superintendent disclosure and the state
level DCA uh, maintenance service provider requirements. >> No, we're not. We we are enforcing chapter 260. We're not taking on the the requirements of the DCA. >> Okay. So, my question is, is there a distinction that your office is making between those two? >> Yes, we are. There's a there's two
separate distinct things. >> Okay. All right. I do have questions about that specific case, but I guess I have to hold on to those uh now. Um I would like to follow up um maybe outside of a public meeting. Is that possible?
Corporation council? >> Certainly. And there will be a resolution on this coming city council meeting for a closed session where we can discuss the litigation and it would be appropriate for director Richardson to attend that closed session as well. >> I appreciate that. >> Okay. >> Oh, go ahead. Um,
>> yeah. >> Um, so thank you, Mr. Chairman. Good afternoon. >> Um, I want to begin by thanking um begin my statements by thanking Director Richardson and his staff for appearing before this committee. Um, this
committee, just to state this on the record, was established by unanimous vote of this municipal council and was previously established by the previous municipal council. Um, and because of the, as uh, my colleagues have said, tenants across
Troy City have come to us with complaints about enforcement of our rent control ordinance as well as other vi potential violations. And so we basically have an obligation here to understand what is working and what isn't working. >> Absolutely. >> So I want to be clear about my approach
today. I'm not here to prejudge you. >> Thank you, sir. >> Um or your office. I'm here to get facts. Uh the committee's job is to understand how the system functions, where the gaps are, and what this council needs to do legislatively, budgetarily, or structurally to make sure the laws we have passed are
actually enforced. that tenants in this city have the right um not just on paper but our but they have the right to have see that enforced right our job is to find out what those rights mean in practice. So, I just want to follow up on what um Councilman Zupa asked um with
regard to the process >> and the process you undertake. Um did you after a court has judgment uh makes a judgment on a a tenant landlord complaint um is your office still involved with the activities post
judgment? >> It depends on what the judgment is. So if the judgment from the the higher court finds out that the landlord they uphold and say the the le the I'm sorry sir that the rents are illegal then we will uphold whatever their judgment is
their judgment supersedes ours and so we find out that they say that that these tenants are still paying high rents and that's their decision whether we agree with it or not we will uphold their decisions and so at that time we will be willing to issue summones to the land
the landlord in saying that you are still in violation of issuing these high rents. >> And do you have a sense of um how the number of judgments that are found where the the court has found the landlord in violation and then your followup and and
you mentioned 913 uh complaints, >> correct? >> Um in one year. So do you have a sense of how many of them have gone to court and ultimately are result are determinations been made and then how many you've followed up on. >> So I don't have the the totality of the
numbers that go to court. Um I do have some some cases that have come back to me where landlords and tenants have resolved their issues deter uh based that that have been based on our determination or they gone against it. uh we just we record record that because there have been times when a tenant has
filed a petition and then he's gone to the landlord and said well listen you know we we we went to court and we resolved it. So we'll take that court case come back and then while amend the determination to reflect whatever the superior court says because at that point whatever their determination it
supersedes ours but that's not that's you're looking at maybe 10 times in the last year we've had a case like that. So, so through this entire process from the time that the complaint is filed to its resolution and then the followup
after court violations or if it's found not guilty um does your office maintain a tracking system um for complaints so that you can be able to verify which complaints are remaining open or not?
>> No, once it leaves my office. No, sir. >> Do not maintain a tracking system. We we keep any determinations, anything that our office does, we keep a tracking system of what our office does. But if you're asking me once it leaves our office, do we follow it to track what happened? The answer to that is no. >> Do you have a system that's tracking
that? It's a digital electronic system of some sort. It's a um database, Excel spreadsheet. >> So everything that we do, we do have a database for everything that we do. We we track it in our drive. So we do have a database for the any determination that we make. >> A database, you sir.
>> Yes, sir. Okay. So, you could be able to tell us that that database would have records about how many are open and um how many complaints are still open >> in terms of petitions? >> Yes. >> Yeah. Okay. And you could tell us how on average how
long they've been open. >> Absolutely. That's one of the questions you guys have submitted to me. So, yes, we can we can let you know that as well. >> Okay. I'll defer to other council people and then have other questions, >> I guess. Um first thank you uh Director
Richardson for coming. Um this committee essentially have been tasked with trying to find how do we make good representation and city departments making sure individuals ader to city ordinance and
or laws. Um, so I guess the the biggest issue for me is trying to trying to have a system where there's multiple checks and balances. What I'm hearing, what I've been hearing, it's
almost like these departments are operating in their own little salow and it's essentially a disservice to everybody. Case in point, Councilman Gilmore's a bad landlord. He's been to
court 120 times for he have a rent control buildings and he's not following almost none of the rules. Right. >> I've heard about that landlord >> and he's following almost none of the rules. Right.
>> Um there has to be some form of system to say, "Hey, this is a habitual offender." We've had multiple citations come in about Councilman Gilmore. Um, so at some office there has to be some type
of alert mechanism hit. So that way residents and then also the council, we don't feel like we're powerless because for me, we're up here passing legislation to address issues as it
relates to landlords not doing what they're supposed to be doing. Um and that's why for me when I say there's no enforcement when I'm speaking enforcement I'm talking about um the issuing of the citations the following
up with the citation and then subsequently the consequence for said citations. Um, so I guess my question for you in your office in particular, um, when you issue when walk me through
the typical issuing of a violation for for something at my rent control establishment, a tenant calls and say, "Hey, director, >> this landlord is doing XYZ.
It's rent control. What do you do? >> I I in order to answer that question, I need to know what XYZ. Give me X Y. >> X X X can essentially be he's charging too much, >> right? Um he's supposed to have he's
supposed to have security at the door. Security is never there, >> right? Specifically as it relates to the things your office handles. >> Okay. So, um, again, and please keep in mind, so when we hear accusations,
please be mindful that we still have to do our due diligence to find it out. So, if a tenant says they're overcharging my rent, we have to have proof, not just accusation. And so, even with So, the situation with that, the same thing we would do is that we find out the the property subject to rent control because
we have to find that out as well. And if I could just take a small little rabbit trail, I'm not trying to avoid the question. There is we do create task force So, like if there's a habitual landlord that we find that we just keep getting complaints, complaints. I believe I don't know the the property
was on Bergen Avenue. I think it was 412 to 418. I could have the numbers wrong, but we got we kept getting complaints about a property. I called you about that because a task force. >> So, at that task force, you had my office, you had uh the fire department, you had gold compliance. We we we once
we find out a property is like that, we will go together to see what can be done at that particular property. We found out that it was not subject to rent control. And so while code compliance could do some things, our office was not able to issue any violations because it
was not subject to rent control because all the violations that we get ultimately it's not just about the summits. It's about how are we controlling the rent. And so when we get the landlord registration, all of that discovery, it lets us determine whether the landlord has the right to raise that
rent or not. It all goes back to rent control. So forget this. We we talked about the security. So let's move cuz the security is 218. Let me move this back. Can you hear me better? >> Yes. >> Okay. I'm sorry about that. So let's talk about the superintendent violation. So, if we find out that a landlord does
not have a superintendent uh on the premises, let's say for the year 2025, right? When we go back and now that land that tenant says they're raising my rent and guess what? We don't have a superintendent. If we find out that they don't have a superintendent, we can deny
the landlord the ability to raise that rent that year because that's part of the compliance piece. But in order to do that, we have to see did he do his due diligence. Now, right there in that instance, right? >> Absolutely. >> You you say that you have the
jurisdiction to deny him the rent increase, right? >> Correct. Well, not so when I say jurisdiction, let me just use my words clearly to issue a determination. All we're doing is issuing a determination. We're saying our office has determined that this rent is
illegal. So, it's a determination. So what if anything happens if your office in the rent control I mean in the rent leveling board deemed to be the inc deemed the increase not to be warranted and the landlord raise the rent anyway.
>> So that's where you have the situation where if that continues to happen then that becomes more so we can issue a violation to say listen the rent leveling board and we've done that before has determined that your this rent is illegal. You cannot you cannot increase their rent. we can turn around based on the rent leveling board's
determination because now it's we're we're complying to what the rent leveling board said and we can issue a violations or even a summon to say we have made the determination and we are remaking the determination and issuing a summon but once the summon is issued that's not there's not anything more our
office can do. So once once once we issue once we issue the citation or the violation um the landlord in essence can continue to overcharge tenants.
>> Absolutely. We we do our office does not have a mechanism to literally make him stop. We can make a determination to say that this is illegal and then you can go before the rent leveling board. But that's why, as you guys are suggesting, if there's a if there's a way to
collaborate with the prosecutor's office, because if the fines are So, if you have a $2,000 day fine and you're getting the max fine, then to me, that becomes a deterrent. But without that, you're absolutely right. All we can do is issue determinations. We can we do
not have the power to stop a landlord from increasing rent. We can just issue summones. We can issue violations. We can issue determinations, but our office does not have the power to legally make him stop. >> Okay. Um, few more questions, ladies.
Um, so as it relates to this landlord identity disclosure, >> yes, >> you have to disclose who's the super, where this individual is at. Um, but I believe there's two type of infractions. There's one for
essentially not having a superintendent and then there's one for not disclosing who said individual is. Correct. >> Yes, sir. >> Okay. So, as it relates and I I guess I don't want to keep beating a dead horse.
If it was 900, there has to be a a a way to track like because we can't just say we've issued 912 summuses, right? All right, fine. 912 is good. How many have been adjudicated?
How many guilty? How many plea bargains? Because that tells the picture of essentially one if as a municipal government as a whole if we're doing our job, right? It you can get you get pulled over and get 37 tickets and go to
court and get found guilty of one. Right. >> But, you know, we're hopping on the number of of 37. So, I guess at some point, um, we're going to have to tighten systems up. There has to be
again some check and balance, like you have to follow back up. And in essence, it makes offices one more efficient, right? Because for for your office to write a citation and for the citation to go to court and your office is pretty
much oblivious to what happened, right? next time a complaint come in from said establishment like you almost don't have no backgrounds because we don't know exactly what happened. Is that an accurate assessment? >> Well, I would say this and I'm on the record of saying it and I mentioned it
prior when when ordinance were added, my concern has always been as you're writing the ordinance, do you are you making sure that the staff is there to be able to do what you're saying? Because if you if if we're not staffed, if we have if I'm telling you, so right now we have four people and we're
already behind in certain things to tell us now to now add another system that the prosecutor's doing to go follow up to go follow up. We're going to keep getting behind if there's not a budget change that gives us the proper staff. We are more than willing. We want this
to work. As you can see my presence here, we want this to work for all the constituents. We're frustrated because what you guys don't hear are the constituents that we help. You don't hear the number of people that call us and re and and commend us for how much
service we give them cuz they don't come here and they don't complain before. But it's not that it's not happening. And so and so I can go on record uh I can say that there was a particular tenant who once we were able to finally get to her
petition. I was able to find that she was being overcharged $200 to $300 a month for 3 years. She thanked me. She appreciated me. But she did not have the time. And I'm not going to force people to call you to give me a pat on the back because I'm going to do my job whether
or not I'm getting recognized or criticized cuz to me it's about the job that's being done. But I'm telling you that there's a lot of constituents in this city that will also say they helped us tremendously. What I'm suggesting is that can we come up together with number
one some budget issues because if I'm if if at the end of the day I'm saying help me I'm grossly understaffed and the answer is no but still do this then you're putting us at a disadvantage and I'm also willing to to talk to the prosecutor's office to say listen what
are some systems that we can put in place that won't overburden us so that the council can say listen this is what they're doing this is what we can give you cuz I never want you guys to not have an answer because we're here to support you guys as well. >> Okay. Um, wait, let's go. Let's
>> I said two. >> You have two as they relate. Okay. And then we'll let uh Elena and Mom, >> thank you. Just some follows, director. Uh, other than having residents call you to uh give you the praise your office deserves,
>> sir. >> Uh, what mechanism do you have to follow up on violations being abated? So, we talked about the municipal prosecutor's office, right? That's that's on them and and I have a question about that in a second. But in terms of okay, we've issued a summon, but we want to make
sure this landlord's not still doing the same behavior. What what mechanism do you have to make sure that abatement uh that that issue has been abated or solved? >> So, when you're talking about illegal rents, if we're again, we're saying the same thing. There's not a mechanism to
follow them once they go to the court system. I'm open to find out again if there's if it's a possible mechanism that can happen without uh handicapping our staff even more. But right now once again once it leaves our office and it goes to the municipal prosecutor's
office, we have not to this day have any mechanisms to to track these summones once they go to the court. >> So the municipal prosecutor's job isn't uh to make sure the landlord changes its behavior. It's to it's to >> correct. >> Right. That would be your department.
>> Well, I mean, what do you mean to make >> So, for example, you issue a summon, municipal prosecutor prosecutes it. >> Correct. >> But in terms of the landlord failing to to continue whatever bad behavior was exhibited, that would fall on on on your division, your department. Correct.
>> Absolutely. And again, if you're talking about 70,000 tenants, are we going to now go chase down and find out what's going on with each tenant without them letting us know? Once we are told what's happening, we would absolutely issue more summones. But keep in mind, it's another summon which has not still made
the landlord change his behavior if all we keep doing is issuing summones and writing determinations. >> All right. And and chairman, Mr. Chairman, I believe the municipal prosecutor was noticed for this meeting today, too. >> No, not for not for today. their their meeting is separate, but I think in light of
>> Yeah, I was going to make a request. >> We're going to have to at some point we're going to have to bring all entities in in together. >> that my request to uh corporation council uh would be to ask the municipal prosecutor if there is a report of of
how many summones in a given year are heard or prosecuted by our municipal prosecutor's office, what percentage of those are dismissed? What number of those are submiss number of those are adjudicated one way or another? Uh and I think it's very important that we have
the municipal prosecutor and uh his the acting municipal prosecutor's staff here to ask a lot of the questions which I've asked Director Richardson who graciously gave me responses. But what we're hearing today is that from a prosecution standpoint, obviously that's not within
his his department's purview. >> Yes. Um Lena Thank you. Um I So I had a follow-up question and then I had some procedural questions. Um you mentioned that your office uh can make determinations,
right? And you can make a determination if the um you know if if the tenant is paying too much in rent because the landlord is charging too much in rent, etc. Um my understanding is that there's a certain mechanism for tenants to withhold rent. Um and it's it's very
specific. They have to open an account, place place the difference in escrow um or you know and and that process my understanding is that um they must receive a determination from your office and then the clock stop
starts and then after 30 days they can begin withholding excess rent. Um what recourse do tenants have if they never receive a response or a determination? But when it comes to them withholding their rent, we don't give them any type of legal advice such as that, right? That's not within our privy
to tell them to withhold their rent. Um, we've not heard anything in terms of they have to wait for a determination to withhold their rent. That's not something that I've heard before. Um, and so when it comes to legal advice, we're not here to give them that type of legal advice. We do offer them documentation of numbers that they can
call, but my office cannot give them legal advice. >> Oh, yeah. I I understand. And I'm not asking for you to provide legal advice, but if if they are seeking a determination and they believe that they um are paying too much in rent or that their landlord is in violation and what
you know and they would like to begin withholding their rent because they've done the research on how to legally withhold rent. Um you know they're not seeking legal advice from you, but they are seeking a determination from you one way or the other. Um, is there a timeline in
which you would give them a determination? Um, what what can they expect if they never hear anything? And do they have do they have any if if if they are waiting for a determination, you know, and and yeah, just get >> I understand the question. Um, so at
this point, I've never we've never been told that somebody needs a determination to withhold their rent. That that has not come across me personally. I'm not saying it hasn't been done, but since I've been there, I've never heard this is one of the first times me hearing that that is a a prerequisite to with
withholding your rent. Um, as you guys have asked, yes, we are grossly behind when it comes to the timeline when we want to issue determinations. There's several factors why that is. I told you in the beginning, we don't have any. We just got one hearing officer who was solely focused on issuing determinations
for failure to maintain service petitions, but she only works part-time. We just got her a year ago. So we we we need we would need at least two hearing officers. And if we had two hearing officers, my determination would be at least 30 days from the time they issued the petition to the time they get a
resolution. Right now, we are grossly behind. In 2024, our office got locked up for 6 months because we were given the task that we had to do and it stopped everything. So that put us behind. So right now, to be fair, we're telling people we always first come, first serve. Right now, unfortunately,
I'm saying a year because we cuz I'm doing some of the determinations myself, but my goal is to get those determinations out as quick as possible, but we don't have anybody who's just that's what they're doing. So, I'm trying to do what I can. Um, really, I'm
the only person right now issuing illegal rent determinations. >> You're so welcome. >> Um, sorry. Um I have some procedural questions as well. Um so the opening clause of a
chapter 260 um chapter or or section 2F1 reaches every qualifying landlord whether or not subject to the restrictions of rent increases. And so a landlord may assert an exception claim or rent control status
may be, you know, being litigated or or otherwise unclear. Um given that the the code um applies to every qualifying landlord whether or not subject to this restrictions of rent increases, how how
do you interpret that language in your office's day-to-day proceedings? I >> mean, in terms of landlord registrations, every every landlord has to file a landlord registration. That's not just for landlords that are exempt for rent control. When it comes to rent control, those we we literally enforce
uh properties that are rent control, but there are some things again the landlord registration. One to four properties uh which are definitely not subject to rent control, they still have to issue a registration and we receive and review those registrations and as of now we do that free of charge, which that's
something we're trying to change because that's a heavy load on somebody. We're not getting any revenue for that. >> Councilman, can I just piggyback on that? Is that landlord registration and rent registration? >> No, landlord registration. So >> do do you handle the registration >> part of the landlord registration? It's
within that >> the rent registration. >> Yes, sir. So when people file a landlord registration, the rent registration is a part of that. >> Okay. I apologize council. >> Oh no. Um that's fine. Um, it would also be helpful to understand
um your document retention policy for tenant submissions, including how case files are preserved and how a tenant or even this committee could request an inventory of materials currently held. >> Eric, you want to answer that the document registration retention?
>> Could you repeat the question? >> Yes. Um, it would be helpful to understand your document retention policy for tenant submissions, including how case files are preserved and how a tenant or this committee could request an inventory of materials currently held.
>> Okay. So, basically, we abide by the New Jersey state retention schedule. Uh, I believe I I'd have to go and check it again, but I think it a petition has three years of retention. Um we hold on
to longer than that uh because you know in a lot of cases uh even landlord applications are three years retention and you're talking about a capital improvement application that is good for the following 10 years after it's
approved. So if we destroy that I mean we'd have no record of it. So yeah when it comes to petitions we keep that on site for at least six right? Yes. six years. >> Yeah. >> Even though the the state retention
schedule says different. >> Um has your division ever um received a subpoena for records? And if it has um what sort of timeline would um
would it take to receive an index um and produce documents? So, from my understanding, we have not received a subpoena for records, but I will go on record to say that even with the new council people that are here, I think we've been very very um cooperative to the records that you guys have requested
from us, even without requiring an Oprah request because normally Oprah request is is determined, but because you guys are the new council and we've been working very hard with you. So, as you guys have seen, outside of just cases where we're overwhelmed, uh, and I even put out a memo uh to to you guys council
in terms of your aids, and one of the memos I put out was to please ask your aids if at times they could reach out to my assistant because, as you can see, I'm a oneman band, and I don't like getting behind. So, I asked them to reach out to Eric because Eric could catch stuff that I might miss. But just as of now, we have no problem giving you
any records that we actually have on file, but we have not been subpoenaed. Um following up on some of the earlier questions about um you know how how you handed off to the municipal prosecutor's office and then it you know the case is
sort of out of your hands and it's in the jurisdiction of the municipal prosecutor's office. Is there anything you see that this committee could assist with following up? >> Um so what I would say is that I don't know what they do. So, I have no I've
not had any bad experiences with municipal prosecutor's office. I know that they themselves are underst staffed. Um, what I would ask is that I see that you guys are really concerned about that. And about it two years ago, it was about two years ago, we actually have started to try to have monthly
meetings with the prosecutor's office. I will go back to that where I'll start out a monthly meeting so that way we can have dialogue without it having to always be on this level. and then I could give you a report and then in those dialogues once you talk to the prosecutor again I'll work with him on a
monthly basis and then come up with some type of report that alleviates some of the confusion or just the feeling that nothing is happening because they've been more than welcome anytime we've asked for them they work with us director um quick quick question um so
you spoke a little bit about um we issued the violations we can't essentially force them not to raise the rent. Um, but I want to ask um what if any power does your office have as it relates to
rent receiverhips? like um I know in a municipal code it speaks of rent receiverhips when individuals are essentially not following the rules and regulations where the uh the the city will come in
and we will essentially by default take take control of the finances of said establishment. Um because for me this is this is what really hurts me right when a when a when a when a in particular landlords right
because I know if someone get a ticket for doing something I know that that that person is going to receive a penalty. I know if someone's pulled over I can see them two months from now and they'll be like yeah coach who they gave
me a $500 fine or they suspended my life. like I know something happened. So I guess what I'm trying to figure out is like like what within your office what if any power we have to really hold these
people feet to the fire. >> So one of the things I will suggest and actually for the last 3 years with the previous council we had had dialogue about uh amending 260 because I think that there's too many loopholes in there. But uh one situation that rose up and I think you guys are aware well of
it where the the the office was able to get some more uh a result with some skin on it. Right. We put some teeth our teeth in it. Uh there was a property 336 uh North New York Avenue and they uh somebody had just bought the property
from my understanding and they had filed for a hardship because you have the right after I believe it's 10 months you can file for a hardship once you buy the property. >> Nine months. Yeah. >> Is it 9 months? nine months. >> And so what happened was we got a plethora of complaints of a few tenants that were that were complaining that
they were trying to push them out. At that time, we not only met with the tenants, we met with Jersey City together. And so when we met with the tenants, it was going before the rent leveling board. You have to understand based on the ordinance, the way the way it's written, when it comes to a hardship, all they have to prove basically is the numbers. They have to
show you that they are receiving a deficit. But in this particular case, because we had tenants who were complaining that they were harassing them and they were doing things to try to push them out, but it wasn't the harassment, it was the failure to maintain services because there was one tenant who had been without water for
several months. On the harassment side, we we really there was not much we could do in terms of issuing some for harassment. But when I told the tenant, I said, "Listen, here's what I need you to do. though we're behind on these failure to maintain tenant service petitions because we've met with you and
we see this as a collective. I'm going to do your petition myself. I'm going to put it at the front of the list and I'm going to make sure that it's seen before it goes before the rent leveling board. With that determination, the rent leveling board looked at the whole situation and they denied their
application for the hardship, which the tenants not only did they get a rebate because the failure to maintain services proved that they had no heat and no water for those several months. And so we issued a rebate for that, the landlord was not allowed to on top of that get a hardship determination in his
favor. So that's that's a special situation, but it goes to show that we exhaust all of our means that we can to try to come up with some recourse. >> So we have your your office have no power as it relates to um rent
receiverhip. >> No, we don't. No. >> Wow. Okay. Hold on. Let um let mom to go cuz she >> Pretty basic question. Thank you, Dr. Director Richard. >> I'll take it. I'll take it. >> We're coming out answering all the
questions. >> I'm just curious to learn with the mayor's executive order. You already have 900 to,500 cases, what is going to be your strategy to resolve as many cases as possible as
>> you might have 2500 soon. So, >> yes, ma'am. So, I'm glad you asked that. And though she asked me not to speak much, I have uh Janna is a star employee. Um as the manager of landlord tenant, she has come up with some amazing initiatives. And so I want her
to uh spell out to you some things that she had already started working on prior to the mayor's executive order. So Dr. Jon, would you please just repeat the question? I'm sorry about that. Now
going forward what would be your strategy to resolve these cases where we are not waiting for a year or three years because you might have a lot more cases now with the executive order. So just curious to learn the strategy going
forward. So I think that the only I can give a strategy based off of where we are now, right? The resources that are readily accessible now. Um to clarify the increase in cases that you're referring to, it's not illegal rent or failure to maintain service. It's
registrations. So we went from receiving approximately 900 to now 1,500. Now, what that does is it does create an influx in petitions because we now are looking at the registration statements and we're seeing that there's potential
illegal increases. So, as far as a strategy, it's only, you know, we can review the registrations, we can reach out proactively, address the cases as they come, you know, try and be forthcoming with the provisions of the ordinance and and what's within our
jurisdiction to address. But that's there there really is no, you know, overall strategy if we're not given the resources to address the influx of work that we've created for ourselves. >> What are the resources you need? >> I would definitely think additional
staff, but defer to director. >> I actually have a flowchart that I can show you guys and we've already determined what a full staff for us would look like. So once this is over, I can issue back and let you know how many staff members we would need in order to
be at least fully funded. So if you give me till tomorrow, I can show you what we have, what we lack, and the positions cuz there are several positions that in order to push this forward and to make it more effective. Again, I keep saying the same thing. We need staff. And the more initiative
you're adding and you're not adding staff, we're going to be right back here again. >> Yeah. I I think um because the this there's practical and then it's reality. Um so I mean I get it. You guys
need more staff. Um but the reality is we there no money in the budget for more staff. Um, so it's almost I'm I'm I'm basically asking if we're it we we we
and it's is a crazy request that we just have to be able to do do more with what we got because I'm I'm telling you now, you going to submit that list? Can >> I say this? Uh, Councilman, we have cross trainined everybody in our
staff because everybody we lost. So, vacant properties, we had to put Eric's had to stop what he's doing. He's working on that. We have inspectors. We have them working on stuff. Everybody on my staff is doing multiple jobs because they were not replaced. So it's just
very somebody has to say what we can't do because otherwise you're setting us up for failure if we're telling you this is what we need and you say we're not going to give it to you. You you can't okay you can't tell me we're not go you proven so I'll I'll send you the
flowchart show you what we have show what we're working with if you see the flowchart that we tell you with this and please keep in mind we generate revenue every job we has we generate revenue so we are a re revenue generating division so it's not really going to cost the
city because we generate revenue but if we say we can show you this is how much revenue this person can generate this is how much person this person can generate and you still say you still can have the person. At what point do we just say we're going to stop telling them to to create something out of thin air?
>> Oh, so you're just so I understand your your bottom line position is basically is the things that this council and this committee is requesting. I can't do it because I don't have capacity to do if
that is the answer. If I'm if if it's proven again I'm not making accusation. Everything I'm saying, I'm trying to lay out to you. And if I'm laying out to you and showing you that this is what we've done and we and and there's another initiative we added. There's a cclick
fix uh request that wasn't there before I got there where people can ask questions about rent control. That's something that wasn't added before. We're always looking to add more, but we want to be realistic because the pattern has been add more, take away staff. At some point, I don't I don't understand
why anybody reasonably would tell me give you more when I can show you I'm giving you as much as I can. And to me, we're giving more with less. >> Can I Oh, let uh Jake and then Rolando >> just curious to learn. Uh Dr. Director
Richard, why am I calling doctor? >> Don't take my time. >> In my eyes, you're a doctor. Uh, director Richardson, don't you think more penalty, more revenue? And >> uh, I want to say, do did you consider idea of uh, having interns in your
office? >> Yes, we have. We've actually reached out for interns. We absolutely have. So, we're not opposed to that as well. >> All right. So, 336 uh, New York A came up before the landlord's petition there was processed in four months. uh when we
see tenants petitions taking a year, sometimes absolutely years. Uh so I I think this is an example of tenants frustrations across Jersey City that they feel as you're saying, you're supposed to as an office treat tenants and landlords equally, but there is this clear power imbalance between tenants
and landlords and tenants are feeling incredibly frustrated across the city that their petitions are taking a longer time. The rebates to them are taking a longer time and and landlords are being delivered more timely services. is the experience of tenants across Jersey City. So, I wanted to get a sense uh
from your office of why this is the case that a tenant a landlord petition might be ready at a at a building with really egregious violations like 336 New York Avenue, but then you go to 35 Kensington, for example, a year and 7 months uh tenants were waiting to have
their petition uh filled. Well, again, as as I as I reiterate in 336, um there were several meetings with Jersey City together with the tenant as well. And and keep in mind, I did that determination. So, I had to anytime I have to put my hands in things that it's
taking me out of things. So, somebody's going lacking because I have to do somebody else's job. To me, again, when you go from having three hearing officers, three hearing officers, >> right, >> to to none, I don't have the answer for you. We moved that up because we it was
a e agregious they were on television. It was egregious what was going on there. It was >> that case we moved it up but if we move up everyone now you're back to the place where everybody's late. >> Okay. So I I think again this is a question of prioritiza.
Eric wants to answer. >> Thank you. Um so pursuant to the ordinance, the reason why uh that moves so quickly uh is because we actually had to wait the two months for all of uh the required documentation. That's what
usually holds up a landlord um hardship application or any any landlord application for increase of rent. Um once we have that per pursuant to the ordinance um because I'm the hearing officer I have two months to get in a
hearing officer's hearing with the tenants then after that draft uh within 5 days a recommendation to the board and then get it to the board within 60 days. That is not a requirement in anywhere
else in the ordinance especially like for petitions. But if you look at 260-10, you'll find that there. Um, now why that failed was because, yeah, there were open violations. There were so many issues with that property. you know, I
don't know if I can get into that on the record, but I mean, there were issues and and part of um qualifying for a rent increase uh 260-3G uh is that you have a full building inspection prior to the application and
that um that building is in substantial compliance and that building did not was not in substantial compliance. there was health, there was hazardous issues there and in that case my recommendation goes to the board to deny it and then the board makes their determination.
>> I appreciate that. >> Yeah, I'd like to also add something. Um, just for perspective as far as hardship applications, we received maybe five a how many have we received in the past year? Five in comparison to a 100 plus petitions, right? and and with the
um with the petition process, we're hearing from both the landlord and the tenant. So, the documents are completely different than the specific documents that are required with the hardship application. So, there's a there's a difference in the process there. It's not just a matter of addressing the
petition in the order that it's received, but it's about what we're actually reviewing to either approve the application andor find that a reimbursement is owed to the tenant. >> Okay. I appreciate that. And this is bringing to light that there is a required timeline for dealing with something like a hardship, but no
required timeline for dealing with petitions that come in from tenants. And I think that's a legislative issue that we should as a council address as soon as possible. Uh understanding staffing constraints at the office. But this is also raising questions for me about harassment in code 260. Um the
harassment clauses in code 260. So what steps does the office take to enforce harassment section? >> Have that written down. So if you look at code 267B uh it it it specifically deals with the fact that this is um under the jurisdiction of municipal prosecutor
because again so the discovery that's required is something that the prosecutor our stance has been that's been something that the prosecutor will handle versus us as it relates to harassment. The thing that we deal with more than anything will be failure to maintain services. Whereas where
somebody may deny a person heat as harassment, but because that's a service that's required, we can handle that under the failure to maintain service issue versus just a blanket harassment issue. >> Okay. So there is no coordination between the office of landlord tenant
and municipal prosecutor's office in dealing with the harassment. >> No. No. >> Okay. Um, so when 995 Summit Avenue reached out to the landlord tenant office about continuous harassment, retaliation by landlord and management, what were the actions of the the office in that case? >> We we reached out, we talked to the
tenant and this was last year. We have email documentation to say that we we suggested for their particular situation that they would do what we asked 336 New York Avenue to do, file a failure to maintain service petition. As of today, no petition was filed at all from 995.
>> No failure to maintain. fail to maintain. So, we have the email where we suggested it, but they never followed up and we reached out to him, I believe, more than one time. >> And did you advise to uh go through the municipal prosecutor uh to make sure that the harassment charges could be attended to?
>> I'm not sure we advised that. I'm not sure. We we primarily when we saw that we could do the failure to maintain service, that was our let us do that for you. >> Okay. >> They we've not received that. So, >> but yeah, they explicitly came to you with questions of harassment, concerns
of harassment and retaliation. And so, it's it's not the practice of the office to refer them to the rep. >> Yeah, I'm again that was over a year ago. I have to look at the email, but I'm sure that we always refer and we always give uh any documentation of any type of other help that we we believe that they could get.
>> Okay. I also want to go back to 260-9. you were uh suggesting I think that the the mechanism to remedy violations that the office has um is summon correct uh to you know to bringing appropriate legal charges um to summons and also in
260-9 under the uh purview of the office there's adjusting rentals and ordering rebates so I just want to get a sense of the practice of the office um it sounded before like you can issue citations you can issue summons but are those other practices of adjusting rentals and
ordering rebates also being carried out by the >> tenant. Okay, just earlier during some of the questions it sounded like the only thing that >> this within the determination. So please keep that in mind. So within the determination we'll determine that this is the rebate that is owed. So the
determination will have the numbers that we believe the land the tenant is owed in a situation where a tenant is owed >> and a determination only follows a summon and a citation or no? No determination. It depends on the situation. So if it's an illegal rent situation, there's no summons that would
be issued first. It would be the petition first. If the So the process is petition, determination, if appealed, rent leveling board. If appealed, it goes to the superior court. Once it goes above there and the determination is made, so let's say it stops at the rent leveling board and it's never appealed.
And then we find out that and we get word that they're still raising rents. we could then issue a summon to say now the rent levy board made this determination we stand with them and because you did not abide by them we're going to issue summones for this tenant and does the office have records of the
kind of rebates um and uh adjustments that have been made in the >> any determination those numbers are in the determination >> okay is there a record that the office keeps as to the history of the adjustments and >> no I mean the record itself is the determination so if you file something
and we we said that you But this is what you would this what the determination had at the what you're owed that's on record. So that is the record of saying we have this and we keep this in the file. Right. So if we were curious about the kind of total adjustments that have been made due to landlord tenant issues
in the last let's say 5 years. We would need to go through each single determination. There's no record that the office holds. Uh >> no. No. >> Okay. Um lastly I just want to address >> can I just ask a clarifying question to what you just said? Sorry. Um, so you're saying that the summons in and of itself
functions as the rebate? >> No. So again, uh, whether in the either in a legal rent petition or failures to maintain service petition within the determination, we will put the number that the tenant should what the what the
legal rent is. So at that point, we'll say this is what the legal our determination. Let's just say you're paying $2,000 a month. And after we do our due diligence, we find out that the landlord was uh did not do what they should have done and you should only be paying 1750 a month. That will be in the
determination. The final determination will be from the office. That our determination is that the tenant is for these x amount of years was overpaying. And now it's between the landlord and the tenant. They have I believe 30 days to rectify that between them two. But that but our determination is a legal
document that says the office sees that the tenant was overpaying. And I don't like continue to always say the tenant because there are times when the landlord is correct too. And so either way the determination has the numbers, it has details. It lets you know why we
came up with this determination to let you know what the number or the rebate should be. >> Oh. And then subsequently the tenant and the landlord have the ability to negotiate. Absolutely. >> But uh so you guys basically are saying the infraction in itself
>> it it spells out what that amount is. Now if you guys want to negotiate absolutely fine. >> Absolutely. And and we've had that happens quite a bit a lot of times. The tenant and the landlord will come to an agreement and they use the determination as a a to say listen we're going to do x
y and z. So that happens a lot that there are a lot of situations where they will come to an agreement amongst themselves before or after the determination. >> Thank you. Sorry I c I interrupted. >> That's fine. I just wanted to also ask about uh staffing since staffing seems
and employment seems to be the main issue in in the office around uh successful enforcement of the law um in an expedient manner and also this seems like the recurring theme throughout a lot of Jersey Cities departments. I I understand that you are not alone in
this. Um yeah, how do you direct staff in triaging the case load that you all have? What factors go into prioritizing some cases over others? What kind of staffing levels do you think you would need to deal with the current case load as well? Um, and also when we talk about
proactivity, do you feel like a proactive approach to systemic issues that we see throughout Jersey City's landlord tenant relations would be more efficient than reacting to individual tenant petitions one at a time? >> I mean, I believe again and I'm going to
I'm not going to move from that. Uh, as of right now, I can tell you I would probably need at least six staff members in order for us to run efficiently >> under housing and preservation or landlord tenant. So under landlord tenant at least four. So housing preservation I would to be honest but I
know you're not going to give it to me. So I would need about eight people altogether. Six. >> I listen I want to give Lammo tenant as many staff as we need to success. I want to understand the process of triaging with what we have now. >> Since we're here on the hot seat I would
say why not use this to staff an office that you're getting so many complaints from because we're getting them too. As I said before, we have crossstaffed trained everybody as much as we can without suffering. >> I guess I'm I'm understand I understand we want to we want to staff the office.
We want to staff all these offices under the current circumstances. What is the process of triaging the case load that we have? How do we prioritize the case load that is coming in right now? >> So to to be fair and remember we have to be fair. It's first come first serve. So there they are specific. So, like I'm
glad we brought back brought back up 336 because the caveat to that is that it was a hardship. The hardship because the hardship had a time limit on it. It gave us the ability to to circumvent that to go above the case. But normally, again, it's the first come first serve because
at at what point do you tell the last person that came in that they're not as important as the first person? So, we try to get this on a case-by case basis. As a matter of fact, even if you gave me the staff that I needed so that I could just not have to do everybody else's job plus mine, when I'm doing petitions by
myself, at one point I was able to crank out at least two a week. But now that I have a million other things that I'm trying to do, even this even this today, this preparation to come and make sure we give you proper answers. with all of this preparation for these last couple this day or so, it pulled me away from
doing tenant petitions because a tenant petition because it's so much to it, it's hard to do that and multitask. That's one of those things cuz it's a legal document and then lawyers are reading this. So, you have to really take the time to make sure you're doing it and being distracted. One mistake,
they're going to hold it against you. So, when I'm doing petitions, I have to be locked in my room. Do not disturb me. as long as I'm being disturbed, I have to start from scratch because you can imagine going through 30 pieces of documentation for one petition. If you get thrown off of that for a day or two,
you have to start from scratch. And so, because I don't have the staff to at least just free myself, if I was free enough, I could promise you that I could do at least two petitions a day. I mean, a week. I'm sorry. I'm not I am a doctor, but I'm not that good. I could do at least two petitions a week. But that's what continues to happen because
in the course of a day, we don't believe in letting a constituent leave out because we do walk-ins and we probably average about 20 walk-ins a day. And when the walk-in comes in, if a staff member is not able to facilitate them, I'll do it myself or the assistant director will cuz we're not going to
send somebody away without giving them assistance. Not every office does walk-ins. On top of the fact that everybody in the office is required to pick up the phone, sometimes even if it's not your particular case, you'll give as much information as you can and push them off to somebody else. So, we
do a large number of constituent just conversations on top of the petition, on top of the walk-ins. >> Understood. I guess this brings me back to just like thinking systematically about it all and what's the most efficient way to deal with >> Can you wrap up? Um, so
>> Okay. Yeah. Just just last thing I'll ask right now. a tenant reports that a landlord, for instance, is uh renovating multiple vacant units in a rent control building, raising those rents above legal limits, does the office of landlord tenant in this kind of hypothetical investigate that conduct uh
even if the reporting tenant does not occupy those specific units? I'm thinking how do we proactively address this so that we can most efficiently deal with the large case load that you have. Does that question make sense? >> It sort of does. But the one caveat you said, if if a tenant is not occupying
the unit, are you saying that you want them to be able to file a petition or make a complaint on behalf of a unit that they're not occupying? >> There there is a a large case load of work that each tenant has to deal with in their own lives, right? And so if there's a tenant in a building who wants to speak on behalf of their fellow
tenants, making sure that they're empowered to be able to do so and bring to you a petition that includes multiple units, multiple issues in a single building seems like a helpful way to the office to be able to It wouldn't because at the end of the day, we still have to get information and documentation from that tenant in the unit. Now, I
understand the situation if you have an elderly person and you're helping them, >> the petition has to become from the person occupying the unit. >> Okay? So, we could have a petition that just has a a you know, neighbor sign off on uh >> Well, I wouldn't even say sign off. I
would it it it would again if you're in a situation where a person physically for whatever reason is unable to do it but you can't do it on behalf of another tenant that tenant the person who occupies that unit cuz they're going to have to file a petition for themselves. >> Okay.
>> Okay. All right, Jake, in the interest of time, um, we'll move on. Let Rolando ask our questions. It's already um 6:30, so we want to be cognizant of of time, overtime, and all of that stuff.
>> Okay. Um, so I I just want to go back to something else that was said >> Oh, absolutely. >> Long time ago already at this point. Um, has to do with rent registrations. Yes. >> Okay. So, your office is responsible for rent registrations as part of the landlord registration. >> Absolutely. Yes, sir.
>> So, um can can you tell tell this committee um how many rents are registered currently today? >> How many rents? >> Yeah. How many landlord rent registrations do we currently have today?
>> So, as we said as of last So, if we stay on point because the the registration period ends at March 3rd as of last year. I don't know what the Do you know the Right. 1216. Thank you. That's why you're here. >> 1,268.
>> 12. Yeah. 1,216 is what we received thus far this year. >> This year alone. >> This year. >> So they they register annually. >> Annually. This is an annual registration. Yes, sir. >> Okay. >> That's that that's the mechanism that absolutely gives us the power to issue
summones. Correct. >> This is an annual registration. >> Right. So when when they don't register and somebody comes with a a complaint >> Yeah. Um are they is there a determination at that point that because you have not they have not
registered that it is then I mean how how what what determination do you make or do you give them an opportunity to cure their rent regist their >> so if so our practice has been so let's say you come in this year and you say um
my rent is illegal our practice in in in finalizing what the legal rent has been is we go back six years so we'll look at the rent regist registrations for the last 6 years and look at the increases every year. So let's say one let's say 2021 they increased by 4% but we go back
to that month and find out that the CPI was only 8%. That's going to be within our calc our final calculation. So every year for the last 6 years we will see did they did did they file registration for one and if they didn't that year when it's time for the increase they get
zero increase for any year they've not registered. So, it's we normally we practice going back a six-year process, which is actually in favor of the of the tenant. If the landlord if the landlord this year has not filed a registration, they've already lost the the ability to increase for this year. But to know what
the increase should be, we have to go back to the prior year, >> right? So, if they haven't registered their rents, they're in violation. >> They are in violation. >> And what's the penalty for a violation of that nature? >> Well, the initial violation is if they haven't is the summon. So if they've not
registered, the first violation once it comes on our radar is we issue them a summon for not registering. >> You issue a summon. There's no fine. There's no uh >> no remember the fine comes after the the summon is what triggers the fine. So there is no fine. The summon says
municipal prosecutor they've not registered this year. So there's no fine attached to that and to outside from our office. And then it's after the mun the municipal prosecutor has to take that person to court. >> Absolutely. >> For not registering their rent.
>> Yeah. Yeah. They get a summon to go to court for non-registration. >> And that's the that's the law. >> That's the law. Yes, sir. >> Okay. Um and and what what what are the rent registrations in previous years? Today we're at 1,268.
What were the rent registrations in previous years? Do you have those numbers? >> So I we started out with 900 and they've gone up incrementally each year. And like you said, last year we reached up to 1,500. We believe we're going to pass that because even though the registration cut off period is March 3rd
once we go through the registrations and we can go back to the rents that we've already had from the previous year, we can start issuing some assistance for anybody who's not registered this year. So we should at least get that 1,500 and hopefully more. Well, not hopefully. We want the landlord to do right.
>> And we have I I I I heard you site a number of 70,000 tenants. Well, I cite that because that's what was said at the council meeting and I believe it wasn't that >> 70% I'm sorry ter I said 70,000% >> 70% of the city that's a low number it's
way more than 70,000 70% of the city attendance I'm sorry >> 70 70% are in the city the city of almost 300 of 300,000,000 people yes sir and you have four people in the office of landlord tenant >> yeah and do you think that 1500 rent
registrations is um is is a good outcome for us >> at this point. Um from where we are, I think it's an amazing outcome with when you see that we've increased. We have been again I'm I'm mindful to let you
know what we're thinking, but we don't want to be held accountable to what we're wanting to do if we're not given the ability to do it. Um what Dr. J didn't tell you is that we have been talking about creating a system where we are forcing landlords to prove that
their rent their rent uh exempt status. Right? We're talking about that now. How can we put landlords in a situation where we almost put them in the category of being rent control until they prove that they are rent exempt? But when you talk about what it would take to even start to do that, I think it would be a
great initiative. We're in the process of trying to figure out how to do that. But again, I'm I'm very mindful because what I'm hearing from the council is that at the end of the day, we can't promise you staff. And so if you can't promise us staff, please don't ask us to promise you more when we doing more with
less. I think that's fair. >> So council uh what just a question following up on that >> please. So for the brand control penalty, do you do you increase the second penalty amount and third penalty?
>> Not for registrations? No, there's no there's no increase. Uh there's again there's no penalty. There's a summon. So there's no penalty connected to that as it relates to our office. We issue a summon and then from there the prosecutor determine what the penalty is. So I guess for legal from a
legislative perspective um can we do like motor vehicle do they give you a date to register to re-register and if you don't do it your kid could be in the hospital there's a fee associated with it there's no
process of going to court there's there's none of that >> if if I can interject one of the um ordinance resolutions that we actually had started working on was fees. So, we've just not been able to put that before you as of yet, but we've actually already started working on uh regist and
we talked we we actually Janna has uh done some research to sort of what NORC is doing because they do have late fees. So, that's one of the things that we want to introduce to you guys. Absolutely. >> So, we can do something we can do late fees. >> Yes. But you have to pass it. We're going to present it, but you have to pass it.
>> Well, we we we we going to do our job to make sure um some So, let's let Rolando um Yeah. finish up. >> Do you you collect those? The prosecutor is you issue a summon. The prosecutor prosecutes it. Um and then who collects the fine?
>> It goes to the city. It doesn't come to us. >> And your office is not responsible at all for for >> ensuring that they pay their fines. >> No, not at all, sir. >> Okay. So, so earlier you also said that um your office generates revenue. >> Yes. >> So, so what what is >> So, the saying you don't collect those
fines of any sort, >> right? What's the revenue that you're generating? >> Absolutely. Uh so go ahead, Dr. J. We talked about that. >> Sorry. So for registrations, right now it's $10 per unit for all properties that are five or more units. For vacancy
capital improvement applications, it's $125 per application. Um for capital improvements, how much is it for capital improvements? Each application process that we have, there's a different fee for it. Um, but like Director Richardson said, there is an ordinance, and I don't
know how much information I can provide about that that's pending in I compass that suggests an increase to some of these uh fees that we're imposing. Um, alone, our registration statements bring in over $500,000 a year. The last time
that those fees were amended were in 2012. So, we're looking to increase those fees to help supplement the costs of getting staff to come in to help facilitate um those registration statements. >> Okay. Now, now, director, when you say
Oh, so I get it. So in essence, your office I mean you're you're generating a revenue because one according to what the doctor is saying there's fees associated with applications and renewal but subsequently by default when you
issue an um when you issue citations and stuff money does come through the municipal government it just don't go directly to you guys office. Am I understanding that correctly? >> Yes. And just to add, um, if a landlord doesn't register by March 4th, they're
already not in compliance with the registration uh, requirement, right? Unfortunately, if we are looking to address all of the non-compliant landlords all at once, our database for issuing summones does not allow us to do that. We have to go in and each manually
enter each citation for each property. So, a way to hold landlords accountable for collecting illegal rents because the rent role is not on file with our office. We've proposed to impose delinquent uh registration fees as well
on so that we could supplement the uh the revenue needed. >> Say that again. I'm you lost. We're we imposed that we should be collecting delinquent registration fees because as of March 4th, the registration is late.
And so we should be able to impose a delinquent registration fee because the landlord didn't register within the time that they're supposed to. And so with the registration statement in um connection to what Councilman Lavaro said, the registration requires that a
rent role is attached. And this ordinance specifies that if a rent roll is not provided, then they're not entitled to the increase. And so a way to to hold landlords accountable would be to give them a delinquent registration fee until they come into
compliance with our office. So where we can't where we can't issue a summon because it's just not feasible to issue 800 summones at instantaneously, we will hold the landlord accountable to a certain extent at some point in time so long as we get that registration statement in the office.
>> So help me understand. Um you're saying that these these documents have to be in by March 4th, I think you said, right? Uh >> yeah, March March 30 is the deadline. So by as of March 4th they're delinquent.
And so uh just based on the number that uh Councilman uh Rolando asked. So we said we currently have 126 registrations which means that 284 are already delinquent based on the number we got last year
>> from last year. >> Right? So if we issue just $100 per unit, that's already 28 over $28,000 just because they're delinquent. That's just a light number. So that's already generating revenue if that was in place because as of now all of those
properties that are not in compliance we will be receiving fees from >> think part of the issue is that it's only $100 and nobody really cares. >> That's like that's light. We can go higher. That's just get some numbers. >> Okay. Now um director what position you
said that you need three you had three of them and you only got one. What position was that again? >> That's a hearing officer. That's somebody who's solely dedicated to do nothing but do determinations for petitions that come in. The failure to maintain service petitions as well as the illegal rent petitions. Right now,
we have a part-time person that's solely doing failure to maintain service petitions, but we have nobody who's doing illegal rent petitions and the person doing it is part-time, which means that we're only getting them two and a half days a week. So, >> so I mean, so
>> what's the state standard? Is that like can we operate in that type of a deficit? >> I'm not sure sir. Um we we have been but I'm not sure what the state stand. >> Yeah, I think Erica we could write that down. That's something I definitely >> salary director for part-time and
full-time hearing officer. I think the full-time hearing officer, if I'm not mistaken, I think it was roughly around $60 to $68,000 for a full-time hearing officer because the background that they had, we were looking for some type of legal background because that would help them in ter making the determinations.
>> So, I I have a question um with >> and just on record, you know, we >> Sorry, can I put this on record? You know, >> Yeah. Go ahead. And then we'll let Rolando finish. >> You know, we're hiring people at 40,000 to $41,000. >> Say that again. you know, we are hiring
new new hires um coming in at 40 to $41,000. So to me, that that salary alone is egregious. >> You're talking about part-time? >> No, that's a full time staff. >> Oh, you're saying that's what the individual you're hiring is coming in at >> at $40,000 a year.
>> Well, I mean, that's that's a whole another convers we we that's a whole another conversation right there. >> We don't touch salary question. Yes. Hey, uh Rolando, >> uh director, so I'll stay on the topic of uh staffing. >> Sure.
>> Um and so when did you come to this um uh recognize that you were understaffed? >> My first year. Cuz in the first year the staffing started >> What year was that? >> Uh 2023. >> 2023. >> 2023. So when I first came in, I was
already unstaffed because I was lo I lost three people before I even had my first day. >> Okay. Um, and so prior to this administration, >> Yes, sir. >> Did Did you submit a formal budget request for additional >> every year?
>> Okay. Can Can you share that? You put that in writing. >> Yes, sir. Yes, sir. I have it in writing. So, I can share that with all the council members. Absolutely. Okay. >> I I'd like to see those requests. >> Yes, sir. I I I would look >> Did those requests go to the administration to your director? >> They went to the director. We came they got approved at the at we came to the
budget hearings but at but there was no so we we had so a few things happened. Um remember I lost one 123 out the gate and then within a year somebody transferred and so they transferred to another department. It took me almost a
year to replace that person. Um and then when I finally got a couple staff members layoffs happened and go to go figure I lost the two people that I just got. So, and then we've we've added on staff, but we we told you when we were here before, we had other initiatives. So, when we had the lead inspection
initiative, we were able to add some staff, but we had a grant for that. So, the staff that we added was per grant. Now, we have the lead abatement. And so, we didn't add staff, we just changed positions, but we use grant money for that. But when it comes to every year
I've I've said that I need staffing, I have that and I'll send it to you. >> Okay. Appreciate that. Then um we we talked about tracking and databases and >> Yes, sir. >> things of that nature. Um you you make a determination, it goes to a summon, etc., etc. Court, but prior to going to
court, um after court, you don't really have anything or anything to do with that violation, but prior to that, you're um it's in your wheelhouse. >> Well, it's in my wheelhouse until it goes to the rent leveling board because if I make a determination and it's appealed, once it goes to the rent
leveling board, it's no longer in my wheelhouse. Okay. And then and then um when the determination is made and you're tracking this, right? So you have some system that's tracking it and you say um rent was registered as this and this is in violation of of your rent
because it's it's a in it violates the rent control laws for Jersey City, then you have it tracked somewhere that says that th those those rents were in violation, >> right? The determination itself is a tracking system because we keep copies of the determination. So if you ask me
if you came to me and we issued the determination, you can always come back to me and then I can look at what's going on since then. But again, that's that's that's only if it's not gone to the rent leveling board because at that point
it's whatever they decide it's their jurisdiction. They made the final decision and sometimes they can override my decision. They have that authority. So our tracking system is just we keep the record of the determinations. So the determinations I made, I can pull up the file and and I still have them have
records up there. >> So can you provide us a summary report of how many determinations where rent was deemed to be illegal um or improper or in violation of the law? Um and
on an annual basis since your time here, >> could you please repeat that again? I want to make sure I'm clear. How many >> like a report >> Okay. >> of your determinations. >> Okay. Okay. Uh where rent was determined >> illegal? >> Yes sir. Okay. >> And and if if you have that information
also the amount that was >> Absolutely. I that that would be with within the determination. Absolutely. >> Okay. >> Yes sir. >> Yeah. >> I just have a a question with regard to a specific situation. Um and it's no no hidden secret. Um, you know, this has
come to this council and the previous council because of the situation in the residents who brought it from Portide Towers. And so how many determinations Well, let me start this. The rent leveling board determined that they were in violation. Is that is that accurate? I just want to make sure my facts are
correct. >> Yes. The rent leveling board uh determined that they they deemed both properties to be subject to rent control. That was the rent leveling board determination >> and they were determined to be in violation of of that that determination.
>> No. So >> the rent leveling board determination. >> So what the determination was was that Dina made a determination that both properties were not subject to rent control. Once it went back to the rent
levy board on appeal, their determination was that they they believed that broke properties were subject to rent control. So that was their determination. >> Right. And then what's your role and your office's role after the rent leveling board determines that it's that
they're in violation of the >> Well, the role would be is if it's appealed, then it goes to superior court or federal court. So that would be the that would be the procedural role is that you would go to the next step >> the tenant what
>> the tenant and the landlord because one >> what's your role inside of that is my question >> after that determinate after the rent leveling board made its determination >> what's your office's role in >> in enforcing that determination of the rent leveling board
>> if it hasn't are you talking is it if it has been appealed or has not been appealed because if it's been appealed Regardless of whatever the situation, if you want to give me one situation and then the other, that's fine. Yes, sir. Okay. So, in the again in the case if it's appealed and it's in
litigation, it is beyond my jurisdiction. If the rent leveling board, so in a situation where they say, "Okay, this property is subject to rent control and it's not appealed." At that point forward, if they continue
to raise the rents, we have the ability to issue summmones per the rent leveling determination. So, it's not at that point, it's not per my determination. It's per the rent leveling board's determination, but we do have the power to now begin issuing summones to align with the rent leveling board.
>> Okay. So in in those cases, Yes sir. >> Um you issue summones when they are not when there's no appeal in that regard or or >> well we would so again so because as you
we've talked we don't track them but if you are that tenant and you reach out to us and say listen they raised my rent again we need we need discovery. So, what I would need is a copy of the lease that shows that they raised the rent because I just can't go by accusation and then I need proof of payment. So,
once >> you're talking about the original complaint. >> Yes, sir. >> So, it's determined that the rent leveling board determines that they're in violation. >> Correct. >> And then it's not going to appeals, it's not going to court. What's your um you say you issue what what's your role again?
>> The prest to to align with the rent leveling board. >> In alignment with the rent leveling board's decision. Correct. >> Okay. and and that summons um then what does that summon require of the the landlord? >> Well, the summons would say based upon
again we would need so we would need the only situation we've had is that we would still need discovery to say that okay they raised my rents. No, this has already been determined by the rent leveling board to be a violation. >> In the same situation, then we we've had a situation again without going I'm
watching what I can say where we've gone back because now we have to determine what are the legal based rents. So we would have to now is so if the the rent le says the rents are illegal then somebody has to determine what are the legal based rents. We we had a situation
where we went back six years to determine what the legal based rents are. Once we have that information, then we can issue a determination to say that this is what this tenant should be paying. And if you don't do that, summaries can be issued, but we still have to do the discovery because we got to figure out what is the legal rent to
determine what the the amount is. >> Yes, sir. >> Right. So, we'll take we'll go through that step. Then you determine what those rents are. You determine the six years, look back, all that stuff. And then you discover that there's x amount of dollars that is due back to the the
tenant, right? Uh, >> and you issued a determination. Is that what it's called? >> We issue a summon. >> A summon? >> Yes, sir. >> And um and you do you track those summones? >> No, sir. We do not. >> No, we do not track those. No, sir.
>> Okay. Um, so but but you have physical records of those summones? >> Yes, absolutely. >> Okay. Um, so I I'm going to ask and it's going to be ownorous and I know your office is t taxed and overworked. Um, >> I leave never. I'm quitting right now,
man. >> Go ahead. Go ahead. Actually, >> I'm going to ask for for some numbers. Let me just say for for 2025. >> Okay. >> How many of those summones um finally came to a conclusion
>> and and you issued that in alignment with the rent leveling board decision and after doing your due diligence to make the determination? I'd like to know how what those numbers are just for the year 2025. >> No problem. Sounds great. >> Okay. Yes. So, director, um, staying
along those lines, um, let's say the you guys made a determination, it was appealed, it went to the rent leveling board, the rent leveling board said, you know what, these dwellings are um, rent control. Correct. Subsequently,
the landlord, he's going to appeal. But regardless, and help me, correct me if I'm wrong, regardless of what the landlord is appealing, your office position is to uphold what the rent leveling board determine.
Correct? >> Well, so here's what I would say to that, right? We would uphold the rent leveling board's determination, but ultimately we we operate under the fact that it's been appealed and it's going to be the the superior court is in process of making a determination that's
going to be final, which also puts us in a situation that no matter what we do, we're going to be subject to Superior Court. And so we have to be mindful of the resources we give on something that can be overturned. And that's happened to us and we can't get those six months back that we put in effort that led to
nothing. So we do and and to me it's like any other situation. Uh we've had conversation to where and if I could just be very frank Frank right um in most situations when people regardless of what the infraction is
when the process has to go to litigation whether you agree that it has to go there or not you have to wait for a determination. It's not a situation where you you you're you're fighting for something. You're fighting at the court, but yet you're still telling this people do this, do this, do this, do this, do
this. We work as much as we can, but we also are mindful that since it's something has gone above the rent leveling board, it's out of our jurisdiction. In those situations, can we issue summones? We can issue summones, but understand also that it's still just a summon. So we are not
opposed to issuing some assistance, but the practice has been to follow protocol that once it goes above the rent leveling board because it's outside of our jurisdiction, we would normally not begin to get involved in something that's still in litigation. >> What if there are other violations that are not underation at the same property?
Could you then issue? >> Absolutely. Yeah. Because then that's not connected to that. Absolutely. >> Yes. And also in that when you're looking at the chapter, the violations speak to per unit per day.
>> Correct. >> Okay. Now, have your office ever embarked in that journey as it relates to violations? >> Well, from my understanding, that was amended under the last administration so that one violation carries that summons per per unit per if you issue it on January 1st and it's not rectified by
default. It automatically by default it it it it incurs that fine daily until it's abated so that we don't we no longer have to issue a summons each day in order to get the same result. >> Go ahead Jake Elena.
>> Um I I had a question circling back to different topics. So if your topic is Germaine then you can go first. >> Control building. >> Oh yeah. So is mine. So you go first and >> Okay. Appreciate it. Um, yeah. I wanted to know how many rent control buildings
exist in Jersey City, um, where official records are maintained. Okay. So, as of right now, approximately 1,400 is what we have, but we're still working on that list. >> 1,400? >> Yes. >> 1400 rent control buildings. And how
many units would that be? >> That that that could vary widely. So we would have to get that group cuz remember in >> more units than other >> one unit can have 300 properties. It only requires five or more. So that's a that could be a very wide list.
>> Right. So we have a a general sense of how many buildings but no sense of how many units? >> No, not at this time. >> Right. >> Not on top of AOD. >> Hold on. She >> um so we are um working on getting a publicly accessible list. the list that
we are um adding to we are including the block and lot as well as the unit information. So once we get through that list we will be able to tell you the total unit count. >> Now just speak to real quick how do units not all units that's five or more are subject to rent control. If you can
speak a little to how one dwelling becomes under rent control. Sure. So, just from how we're in practice right now, we have the way that we're compiling the list is we're taking all of the properties that are classified under 4C
on the tax plate, which is essentially apartment units. And so, what we're doing is we we use that as a basis plus our registration um inventory to determine exactly what properties would be subject to rent control. All five or more more unit properties are presumed to be subject to rent control unless
they have one of the exemptions. And so our office um is actively working towards identifying all of those properties that we either have an exemption on file for or we need to follow up with the property owner to get that exemption on file. Um and just from
how we've been doing that, we'll go on Tyler if there's contact information. We'll reach out to the landlord. will send an enforcement notice requesting that the landlord provide certain documents depending on the basis of exemption that they're claiming and we're issuing approval letters that detail the uh proofs that were reviewed
by our office to determine that the property was subject to rent control. So all of the properties that we have in our registry, we're looking at what the landlords indicated as being subject to rent control or not, um those are being added. So, it's just taking a bunch of different sources to to for one complete
list, but ultimately following up on those properties that they they've been operating as exempt and or we believe that they qualify for an exemption, we're we're actively trying to get those proofs of exemption on file. >> And all 1,400 units that are under rent
control is responsible for submitting rent um for rent registration every year. Whether the property is subject to rent control or not, it has to submit a registration every year as well as a rent roll that lists the tenants rents as well as the base monthly rents. >> And how many have we received today?
>> Um, from January 1st to March 3rd of this registration period. So far, we're at 1,200. Um, I've issued approximately 50 summones so far just this year for failure to register. We hope to get, you know, the the 15,600 that we should be
receiving registrations for, but that'll, you know, be additional. >> Now, as it hold on, Lane, as it relates to those violations that you've just issued, are any of those dwellings habitual offenders? If you know,
>> off the top of my head, I don't know. But I def I have an Excel sheet where I compare the ones I submitted I I I issued this year to previous years. So I probably could identify repeat offenders. >> Yes. If you can um give the give this
committee access to that um because that part of the um problem we're tasked with finding a solution with is seeing I mean it seems like oh the council against all landlords. No, we're against
bad landlords. >> Yeah. And just to provide some perspective with that, we when I'm issuing a summon, if we have contact information on file and we see that a landlord registers every year, we will call them. We'll send them an email. We
don't just result to issuing a summon. The summones are issued when we see those repeat offenders or we don't have registrations on file for several years. So, we are mindful when because the landlord's either going to be responsive or not. and we do have a lot of landlords that are responsive that we
could pick up the phone and get them to register. So, the summons is the last resort. >> All right. Thank Yeah, Elena. >> Thank you. Um my question is my understanding is is that a landlord is delinquent and and they are not um they are not complying with the registration.
They are not complying with the rent rules. Um they are not registered that they then are not allowed to increase rent until they are in compliance. So, it seems to me that telling a landlord they're not allowed to raise rent would, you know, would be perhaps a more
impactful um way of bringing them into compliance than than the summons. Um, is that something that you're that you've looked into? I think just um in response to the mayor's executive order, we definitely
feel more empowered to take a proactive approach. So, as we've been seeing these instances, we do send notices directly to the tenant telling them that the propertyy's subject to rent control. We provide the CPI increase so they're aware of the allowable increases. And we
also provide them with the 18 causes for eviction to ensure that they're not experiencing unlawful eviction practices. And as far as notifying the landlord, we basically tell them that you have to come into compliance. If you don't come into compliance, then we're going to notify your tenants that you
haven't complied. And you know, hopefully at that point, if there are landlords that are non-compliant, we can get them in a position where they're willing to comply. I also had a follow-up question. Um, Director Richardson, what you were saying earlier about
how if if the case is in litigation, then you know, you're just completely hands off after that point. My question is, does this not overly place the burden on the tenant? Because it would seem to me that if there has been no
injunction or no stay issued by a court, a higher court, even if it is being appealed, that it would seem that for the time being the rent leveling board's decision should stand. >> So, as I said before, I mean, we we have we have done that. We have issued again
summones. if it comes to our attention that but so once the rent leting board makes that determination there is no way around getting the information we need from the tenant there's no way around that they have to let us know and then they have to provide us the documentation so that we can make an
unbiased decision we have no problem doing that again and then there's are infractions that are not connected to that have no problem issuing services as well but there is no scenario where the tenant is not involved because we are relying solely on documentation that are given to us.
We just can't be proact. We have been very and I hope you can hear that we have been working to be as proactive as we can be but we always have to take the stance that we need the documentation and as John has just said we we are working on things where we have bad actors because we we agree council
Gilmore we are trying to go after bad actors but at the same time even while you're trying to go after bad actors you have to we have to do our due diligence to make sure that we are doing something fair we we're not the the office of right to tenate council I know that that was something that was supposed to be
done. We don't know why that hasn't been done, but it sounds like what you're asking is already an office that's just not in existence. We have it. We just don't have a director. But that would be more somebody who would be a tenant advocate. We're not a tenant advocate. We're landlord tenant. To me, that's what it sounds like.
>> That's not what I was asking. >> Okay. Well, then clarify, please. >> Sorry if I was unclear. Um Okay. Very clear. >> So, um after the rent leveling board issues a decision, right, and if the landlord does not like that decision, the landlord then appeals,
>> correct? >> You you said earlier that at that point your office is hands off during the during the length of the appeal. And it seems to me that all a landlord would do would need to do would be to tie this up in appeals indefinitely and the tenant
can still get no relief. So my question is if it's being appealed but there's been no injunction or no stay issued by a higher court then then why does the rent leveling board's decision not stand and and why can further summones not be issued?
>> I'm going to answer this question because it touches on active litigation. Ultimately what may be true from a policy perspective once something is in litigation is irrelevant and what matters most is what the judge says. Um,
I will share publicly what I have shared with the council this weekend, which is that since coming into my role, I have asked for updates from the litigators who have been litigating this case. They have reported to me under all of their ethical duties, including their duties
of cander as attorneys, that at the outset of litigation, there was a verbal instruction from a judge to not issue any unfair rent increase tickets. Now, my perspective coming into this role is that something that may or may not have
been said years ago is not a strong enough basis for me to advise the city, my client, how to act. So, I have directed the team that is litigating the case to seek from the judge a written order clarifying exactly what the city may or may not do because at the end of
the day, every party to the litigation deserves certainty about what is appropriate and not. But ultimately the answer to your question, Council Person Little, is once the matter is in litigation, it is entirely up to the judge. >> Thank you. Thank you for the clarification.
>> And and does, if I can follow up on that, does each individual case determine is determined by each individual judge's decision? Like could they have different decisions on how to treat that situation? Yes, federal judges can pretty much do
what they like. They can administer their cases how they see fit. Unless there is binding precedent that governs a particular situation, it is up to the discretion of a judge to decide what they think is is prudent. One judge could say that I think it is prudent
pending appeal for the status quo to be preserved. could certainly make policy arguments about whether or not that is fair, but that would absolutely be within the judge's right. Um, unless there is binding precedent, a different judge could uh come to a different conclusion.
So, Sarah, I just want to make sure I'm understanding this correctly once it's in the jurisdiction of the court. Basically, the work that we're doing to find out the terminations as it relates to the amounts and rents, none of that
matters because of the court's determination. >> It would not be in the city's interest to violate a directive from a judge that is presiding over one of their cases. >> Let let me ask another question with regard to this. How many of these cases
go to federal court? >> More than five. >> I I would have to check. So, I don't even want to give you a ballpark number, but that's the number that I could I could check. I'm not sure off the top of my head. >> And you have records of that if they've been go if they go to court.
Not the >> she's the law department. We're home. >> If there's a if a court case that's not involving us, it's between the tenant and the the landlord, you would keep that record. >> If a landlord is appealing a determination by the rent leveling
board, the rent leveling board would typically be a party in that suit, in which case we would absolutely be able to pull records of those litigations. And to be clear, what I'm referring to is litigations that are either in New Jersey Superior Court or in federal court. We're talking about something that is completely different from the
municipal court process. Okay. I I would love to have see those numbers because we're we're talking about this as though it's like every case is going to um New Jersey superior court or federal court and it's it's stying us and and tying our hands and handcuffing us. And you
know, I know we're only talking about it sounds like we're talking about one particular situation and I'm we're talking about kind of just the general like enforcement of rent control for residents throughout Jersey City, right? So, >> yeah, Jake.
>> Yeah, I just wanted to return to um the rent control buildings. Um, it seems as though I mean we have these cases where a historically rent controlled building is chopped up into LLC's where a building of maybe 30 units gets chopped
up into a group of many one to four unit uh quote unquote buildings that then get out from under rent control and that loophole is killing rent control stock throughout Jersey City. Um, and it seems like it would make your jobs a whole lot easier if we could cut that loophole and
have get to avoid the questions of determinations of rent control in these cases. I mean, could you speak to whether it would make your job easier if city council were able to cut that loophole and actually uh bring under
rent control any of these condos that are within historically rent control buildings that otherwise would qualify. I'm going let Eric, he's my LLC guy. Um, so I would love if you excluded or exempt uh condominium buildings from
rent control. Uh, that would make it easier for sure because you can start out as an LLC, a corporate entity, right? You can have five or more units in a building, start selling them off. You're increasing rents. You're
increasing rents. We're following up. We're writing determinations. We're answering petitions. Uh and then yeah, next year or that year you sell off a couple of units, now you're no longer under rent control. So now you're rent
control exempt. Um it is very um difficult to track. It's it's it's very difficult to um issue summones in that case um and enforce rent control. Uh if you could just give me that question one
more time. >> Yeah, I guess my question was the the opposite of including those kinds of properties in code 260 to make sure that let's say historically rent controlled building has five or more units um past
the 30-year window of being exempt. um classically rent control building. Those units get bought up by various LLC's to be under that five unit threshold and are now condos out from under the jurisdiction of 260. My question is,
wouldn't it make your jobs much easier in terms of enforcement if we were able to bring those units under 260 regardless of their status as condominiums? I would I would say no, but I'll I'll leave that to the manager of uh office of landlord tenant
relations to answer. Um I yeah, I think that would be I mean it's it's burdenous already um with the amount of properties that we have. You know, we're talking about 1,000 whatever, you know, properties and we're not talking about
units, you know, some units. Yeah. are occupying it. Um I maybe we can talk more offline about this. Uh but John, I mean if you have any perspective here, I'd be curious. >> Definitely does >> just it it definitely is difficult to track. Um I think it's a bigger issue,
right? because we have landlords, we have LLC's, and it's it's the same care of for the LLC's, and that's really what we're trying to avoid is the entity or the the individual owner of that LLC. So, yes, it's definitely difficult to track for us. I agree that just saying
that the property in its entirety is subject to rent control indefinitely. Um, but I don't know the laws around a property undergoing a condo conver conversion and then selling off the units individually and what that new owner might have in their relationship
with the tenant to get them out of that unit. You know, at that point I I think that's just additional conversation at that point because that tenant that was there that would have been protected because they were there when it was a five or more unit property subject to rent control once they leave. Is the
unit now subject to rent control or is it not? I think it's just additional conversation we'd have to get um you know advice from the law department on. >> Okay. >> And in the case of a condo conversion, we'll accept the application and forward it to the state. Um but also we will
send out notice uh for protected tenency. So those that disabled um uh or elderly uh we will review their cases to make sure that they they they keep their uh rent control uh unit. Um, but I
believe, and I'd have to check again, I think it's three years notice if you are a property owner that is going to convert your um rental property into uh condominium property. I I believe so.
>> Yeah. >> Any other chairman? >> Followup? >> Yep. Can I I I just have some information requests before this committee comes to a conclusion. So, um, at every step in this process in terms of where your your office is involved, whether it's, um, issuing, um, uh,
summones, um, or determinations, complaints coming in, I just want to see, uh, summary data over, uh, your your period, uh, from 2023 at every every step step of the way. Um, I'm going to have to rewatch kind of this.
This is being recorded, correct? >> Yes. Yes. Yes, I'm going to have to rewatch it to just understand where exactly the touch points were. But um uh from the time that the complaint comes in to the time in which you make a determin issue a determination summons and then ultimately referral to um
whether it be the rent leveling board if you have numbers about that referrals to the prosecutor's office, etc. Um if I can get data about that on an annual basis, um that'd be great. So, I have one request. If if it's possible for any
request you make, if you can send me an email of that because that way I can be very very strategic and specific. >> I can do that. >> Thank you, sir. >> And um Rolanda, if you can just uh put all put the whole committee >> Yeah, absolutely. >> In the email and as well as um
corporation council. >> Yeah. I I I just have one other question which is um we talked about it going to the prosecutor's office. it's kind of out of your hands. Um, in that regard, um, I just want to know what what sort of over your time and period, what sort
of interdep departmental kind of coordination have you had with the municipal prosecutor? Um, when when determinations been made that that require them to enforce the the law around that, um, what is the mechanism
and how is that referred to them? What's the communication around that with that office? So that particular we the communication we've had with the prosecutor's office has primarily been about short-term rentals. When it comes to this process, these are these are not conversations that the prosecutor I have had concerning this particular issue. Um
I'm open to talk to him to see about moving doing something moving forward. But most of my conversation with the prosecutor's office has been primarily focused around the issues of short-term rental properties. >> Around what? >> Short-term rental properties. So, so when you do the what's the the what's
the mechanism? What what's the form in which um a violation that ultimately has to be referred to the prosecutor's office? How how does it get over there? Is it just >> I issue a summon. So once the summon is issued, it it automatically goes to the prosecutor's office
>> and that's that's the extent of it. There's just like >> Yes, sir. >> Uh a carbon copy triplicate sent over there. >> Absolutely. >> Okay. >> Gotcha. And it's it's always been like that. >> It's always been like that. >> I mean, I just think I don't know, man.
It's just I just think it has to be and I don't know from what side or whatever. Just it just has to be more cohesion because if you guys don't operate in unison, you can't essentially effectively do your
job and subsequently the prosecutor office can't effectively do their job. Again, I you know, I want to say that uh there everybody's understaffed. At no point are we not willing to do what we can do, but I also until I talk to the
prosecutor to know what his burdens are. I'm I'm willing to have that conversation and then to come up with some what we don't want to do. And I want to say we want to be realistic and we want to be as collaborative as possible, but I can't make any determinations without first speaking to the prosecutor's office. You have my
commitment to do all that I can with what I c with what I have and if you want more give me more and we'll give you more. >> If I may make another question what in the past year I'm not talking about I'm glad to hear the expression
moving of uh collaboration and and interest in moving forward >> but we're also talking about past here right now right understand what's absolutely what's going on. So when you um has has anyone ever said to you from from administration, department
director, anyone uh said to you, you know what, this is really a problem? Like you really need to like go talk to the the prosecutor about this and see that uh we get something that he's aware of these uh these violations and we need to be able to enforce these. The only
thing I know in terms of that, I remember that there was a time where the prosecutor and myself were here and we spoke to the council and at that time he began to explain to them some of the things that were going on. But outside of that, there's been no directive, if you will, to talk to the prosecutor. Um,
again, that's that's been a personal decision that we made when we were able to make it. So, that comes personally from something that again, and I take in these things as well. So walking away from here today for me one of the things on my list is what can I do to help forward this by talking to the
prosecutor myself. So I'm very very you know intuitive to hear what you guys are saying and to find some realistic ways what can we do. So I will be reaching out to the prosecutor and also you know I think this committee is tasked with um making recommendations
and I know like that's going to be part of the recommendation we make to the administration. There's just I mean I I can't overemphasize. There just has to be cohesion amongst all of the departments whether you talking about
construction code compliance, quality of life, the prosecutor's office, um landlord, tenant, like this there just there has to be cohesion, man. And I'm of the opinion that being that you guys are all so
understaffed, that's even more of a reason to be collaborative, right? Because like like I don't like it just puts it puts everybody at a disadvantage if we're not using everything at our disposal. And
again, it's not a direct knock on you per se. It's a it's a knock on a system, the situation, right? And that's what has to be like we just have to find out how do we rectify that. >> What what I again reiterate is before we
move forward. That's why I want to talk to the prosecutor. But you guys have the power to do that cuz I really feel like he has whoever the prosecutor is, they should be able to let you know what what they're facing as well so that they can see what they're going through. And I think once that's done, we can come up with something more cohesive when we
know what everybody's short shortfalls are, what they can do better. I think the cohesiveness is to talk about what everybody's facing and how can we work together. But until that happens, I think we're going to keep coming here. But I want you to know again, council, that uh committee that we're and and I
can speak. I've not had any other department that we've tried to reach out to that's ever been adverse to it. So, from my experience, I think that you'd be surprised how frustrated the directors are because we want some help, too, and we're willing to help each other. So, I don't think that at any
point we're against you. We're not against the constituents. We're trying to figure out and that's why I came tonight because I'm I'm actually thankful for the invitation because I wanted to come and and the council people that I've already talked to, I want to say it's been very very pleasant. It's been it's been very very
pres uh pleasant. Um, I I did have a nickname for you, Councilman Jake, but I'm not gonna do that because I don't want I don't know if you would like it or not, and I don't want to get in trouble. >> You can say it on the record. That's okay. >> Well, I call you Coun I call you Councilman Kenny G. I call you Councilman Kenny G. I just >> believe me, I've gotten it before.
>> Okay. But I will say I am looking forward Council Mato. All of you guys, this was pleasant to me. Glad to just I do feel like we're looking to work together and and we want to we all are working for the constituents. That's how I see it. and whatever we can do to help
the constituents get the answers that they need because it hurts me when somebody calls my office and the propertyy's not subject to rent control. Yes, I'll give them the resources, but at the end of the day that some of these one to four units, you think the rent
control properties having problems, these non-rink control properties, the rents that they're paying for these wonder to four units with slum landlords and we can't do anything for them. That breaks my heart. So, I hate turning anybody away without doing whatever we can. And I know even at one point,
Councilman Joyce Wman, she had mentioned some things about the wonderful units because there's a large group of people in this city who the only answer we can give them is here's some paperwork, but it breaks my heart that we can't do a failure to maintain service for those guys. So, I'm all for just make but I
just want to make sure that we don't give empty promises. So, that's why I'm just and and I'm on the record, guys. I've come here several times to say, "Guys, I hear what you're trying to pass." But if we're not having conversation first, sometimes you're making decisions without talking to the
people to enforce them and then saying, "Why didn't you enforce them?" And we're saying, "Why didn't you ask us?" We want to work together. We want to I promise you, we are I'm I'm very happy to be here and we're happy to do whatever we can to make this work. I want you guys to have a great uh first term. I want I
want it to be something you look back and say we got some things done. We're here to work together. >> I have sorry I have one more question. >> Yeah, Rolando. >> Um I asked if there were any um uh well if uh if if you were given any
directives to >> Yes, sir. Yes sir. >> things. >> I'm going to do the inverse of that question. Was were there any quest any direct directives not to take action or not to don't go after that one too vigorously? Don't go after that one too aggressively.
>> So, I would say we we've actually the only directive we've gotten was to aggressively get some to come up with some legal based rents. That was a directive that we got from the administration to get this done. So, we've never that was the only thing we
got. And in that particular stance, it was actually almost going after the landlord. >> When was that given? >> That was given in 2024. And that's when we did that's when we locked up our office for six months to do the base to do the legal base rent unit for a particular property. And that directive
when I say directive it was very much understood that the administrator wanted to get that done and they even gave us extra bodies during those months to try to get that done. So that's the only directive I've ever gotten from the administration. >> Yes. I I mean I re I recall that. Um,
and I would just say what what came of all of that hard work um should be enforced. Um, so I guess, you know, we we essentially have our marsh orders as it relates to, you know, what we're
hearing. We're hearing about laps and systems. We're hearing about, you know, all of us needing to be on the same page to deliver a fair and justestable um, justifiable outcome. Um, so does anybody have any further questions, comments,
and call or concerns? >> Very brief. >> Very, I promise. >> No. G, I mean, >> um, just is is there a sense of, um, an estimated date of completion for the list of rent control buildings and shoot? Okay. >> It's two months.
>> Yes. >> No. Um, but as it relates to as it relates to the the um the number of units and the number of people who've registered thus
far, we can get that relatively quickly from your database. Correct. >> You're saying how many people submitted registrations for the 2020? It was you you spoke to the fact of issuing 50 some
citations. Um so with this committee want to look at um if you have a record of just the last three or four years of the violations and or the entities for said violations if we can um have access
to that. >> Yep. So long as there's no problem legally, I have that in >> I don't think legal have a she's shaking her head. No, she she don't have >> I have it in Excel sheet each year. So everything that was issued just in reference to 260 as well as 20A. I can
get that to you. 260-fa. >> Okay. Well, I do want to thank all of you ladies and gentlemen um for coming today. Hold on. Go get ahead. Director, >> this is my last comment. Um, if you were going to keep us here this long, I think as a council pres the president of this
committee, there should have been pizza for everybody. >> There's um, >> we have deficit director. Don't forget we have deficit. >> Okay, we have a deficit. >> No, there is food in the restaurant across the street. So, you're more than welcome
>> to go to the uh, restaurant. >> And don't forget that I gave you nickname, too. >> Okay. Appreciate. But in all seriousness, I do want to take this time to thank everyone ca who came out today. You know, the objective of this
committee is not to try to harm anyone. We're essentially trying to find reasonable solutions for real people to address the inequities we feel we have in this city. Um so with that being said, can I get a motion to close?
>> Motion. >> Wait, do we have our next date? I heard uh women Elena, >> the dates are already the dates are set. It's the >> two weeks. Every two weeks, is it? >> No, it's it's monthly, right? >> Yes, the dates are already set. They're
preset. >> Do we have our May date? >> So, we actually set this date. >> Oh, this date. Okay. So, why don't we >> the rest of the year? Because I think we was a little undetermined on what specific day that you guys were going to
Today's Monday, right? >> Yes. >> Monday the 13th. So, we'll go Monday. We'll go. This looks like What is this? The second Mon. This is the second Monday. Council's our first Monday, right? All right. So, we're every second Monday.
>> May 11th. Monday. May 11th. Is that >> Yeah, that would be May 11th. The next week, >> whenever it is. >> I got it. May 11th. Same bat time, same bat channel. Right. >> Yes. Now I'm showing my age >> and I just want to caution the committee
that we have to um have our we there's air marks in the ordinance as it relates to um us submitting something um perform recommendation. So if we going to um look to call in other entities, we
need to do that. iron that out. Um because we have to get everybody before us to get their sworn testimony or get their perspective of what's going on and then subsequently at some point we're going to have to I would imagine bringing all of them together. So we'll
figure out who we calling next and then subsequently we'll go on and then we'll have all of them together. Then we can generate um the next report. Um so that way we we're at least looking at trying to have some real progress. Chairman, do do we know who the next individual is
that you're going to bring? >> I think um is it the prosecutor's office? >> We're Yeah, I think so. >> Yes. May 11th. If we can um the prosecutor's office is I know they're busy. Is that enough time for them to
clear their schedule? Sack corporation council >> May 11th. >> I'm happy to pass along the request if you'd like them to appear on May 11th. >> Yes, please. >> I I suspect >> I'd like the former prosecutor to like the acting. >> So if you if you want the we're going to
have to subpoena the former prosecutor >> or just request him and then if he declines a request then >> we're subpoena. >> She was subpoena. >> Okay. >> For May 11th in the former municipal prosecutor or the current acting chief >> former chief prosecutor. >> We want the
>> I my understanding is that the current acting as well as some other municipal prosecutors have ideas on how to make the office better. Um, so would it be possible to invite them all or would that be too much of a >> No, I think we should invite them all. >> Invite them all. >> Current and former.
>> Yes. Just time. >> Okay. So, you would like invite all current municipal prosecutors and >> No, no, no, no, no, no. The chief prosecutor, the former and the current. Who's who's the temporarily placeholder
right now? >> Him and Juda. those two >> and corporation council. You you mentioned to me that there were others who had approached you with ideas of how to improve the municip
>> for the sake of trying to get to get answers. We we I mean they can come too. The most important thing is to get the ones that can give us the answers and then like director Richardson brought his support staff who have ideas the same. Yes.
>> Okay. So extend the invite to >> Yes. >> Okay. I will invite them both and invite them to extend the invitation to any other design who they think would be uh whose contributions would be productive. Um if you would like to subpoena someone
there is no guarantee of a date certain by which we will be able to serve them or follow the formalities that are necessary with the subpoena. So I will extend the informal invitation and apprise the council and we can take >> All right. So in light of all that, if we can send the request for him to come
tomorrow to May 11th, if he don't respond within 72 hours, then we'll issue a subpoena. >> It will take longer than that to prepare a subpoena. We'll have to have a meeting and talk. >> No, no. What I'm we can start the process. However, I mean, I don't know the legal parameters of how long, but at
least that at that point, he will have answered back or not answered back. >> I'm sorry. We should also include the um office of code enforcement uh director um both present and past I don't know if that's changed in over time but uh
>> office of code compliance director Joe Barrow >> I mean whoever is enforcing was it two chapter 218 >> gentlemen can we can we do this offline with the corporation council would that be possible >> I just want to get on the record that we're doing >> yeah yeah yeah we can I mean I'm happy to have a further discussion but I
actually have a neighborhood association meeting that I'm speaking at. >> Okay. >> We just needed to know who we're inviting so I can include them on the email then when they send out the notice. >> Yes. >> Do we have everything? Is everything good? >> So let's do that motion again. I'm going
to have ask for a motion at 7:41 p.m. to close. >> Second. >> Motion made by council person Efro, seconded by council person Lavaro. All council members present by acclamation please say I. I. We are out of here at
7:41 p.m. Thank you so much everyone. President, everyone watching at home. Remember, teamwork makes a dream work. Have a great night. Stay safe everyone.