Public Meetings Act. The notice of the time, date, and place of this regularly scheduled meeting of the Jersey City Historic Preservation Commission has been sent to the Bergen Record and Ellis Baselito on Wednesday, September 10th, 2025. The same notice has been sent to the
city clerk for posting on the bulletin board outside the city clerk's office in city hall and on the Jersey City website. And I have proof of this notice in evidence. If we can mark this as B1 B1 in evidence.
Okay, we will move on to a roll call attendance. Uh, Commissioner Gucciardo here. Commissioner Gunther here. Commissioner Blazak here. Commissioner Gordon present. Commissioner Kobach here.
Uh we have commissioners Sanamp, Sukong, uh Edgecomb, and vice chair Griuga all absent. And then chair Cronin present. Okay. Staff notes that there are six commissioners present this evening. Five affirmative votes are required for a
certificate of appropriateness. Next. Next up on the agenda is the approval of minutes from the August 18th, 2025 regular HPC meeting. Are there any questions or corre corrections to the minutes? Okay, since there are no corrections or
changes, staff recommends a motion to approve uh the minutes as submitted. Motion second. So, we have uh Commissioner Guchiardo, I'll abstain. I wasn't at the meeting.
Commissioner Gunther I. Commissioner Blazak I. Commissioner Gordon I. Commissioner Kobach I. And Chair Curtain. I'll abstain also. I was not at the meeting. So we have we have four in favor, no
against with two abstensions. Uh the motion passes. The for correspondence. Um, all copies of correspondents and all application materials are linked on the agenda through their application numbers. And for announcements, uh, staff has
three announcements at this time. Um, item 8A, under old business, the demolition review of 300 Central A B-25-0166 has carried at the request of the applicant to the October 20th, 2025
regular HPC meeting. Item 9A under new business um case H--25- Z0079 for 70 Fair View A has carried at the request of the applicant to the October 20th, 2025 regular HBC meeting. And last
but not least, um the item 11A under demolition review for 149 Montichello A uh B-25- 1109 has carried at the request of the applicant to the October 2025
October 20th, 2025 regular HPC meeting. And that is all of the announcements. Um Dan, if you would like to call the first case. Okay. Uh, hope none of those were for any of you guys because going to make that a bummer. Our first case is H-24-047
SX3 Architecture uh PLLC applicant on behalf of Von Cheney, owner 635 Jersey Avenue, apartment 2. Uh, this is in the Hamilton Park Historic District. They are going for a certificate of appropriateness for the interior renovation and construction, please.
Sorry, I had a ginger beforehand. and construction of a proposed construction of a proposed roof deck at an altered contributing Italian8 rowhouse built circa 1865 in the Hamilton Park Historic District.
Oh yeah, hold. We missed out on something. No, open public comment pertain to anything on the agenda. Yeah, I was just going to ask that. Looks like looks like it's missing from the agenda. Um after the July meeting, it was removed
at the request of our director. Oh, okay. My bad. So, what does that what does that mean? No public comment other than on the applications that are here tonight. Correct. Uh the only thing that's a requirement is public comment on the
applications that are on the agenda. can speak. So, does that mean the people in the audience will not get to speak unless they're speaking on the applications in front of us? H how about I make a motion to open public comment for second.
Okay. At the Yeah. Can you turn on your mic? Yeah. I think if the commission wants to do it, we should have. Yeah. And I I would recommend that the chair limit it to three minutes per person as prerogative. I also folks also for the future, I'd like to know
why that was um requested from the director and if and I'd like to hear the reason, but um I think we should add that on to our agendas again. Okay. Um unless there's a pertinent reason that we could talk about another time. Yeah, she meant she asked us to remove
it to be consistent with the other boards, but I can also ask her to come to the next meeting if you guys want to hear. If there's a pertinent reason, I'd love I'd love to hear it, but um Okay. So, we have a standing motion. Yeah. All in favor? I I
Okay, so we will open public We will open public comment. Um if there are any members of the uh public here that are wishing to speak in regards to applications not on tonight's agenda um please approach the public comment mic
and um as stated uh the chair has limited to the public comment to 3 minutes. Um our court reporter will swear you in and then the 3 minutes will start. I will time it and at one minute we will give you a warning that your time is nearing the end.
Okay. And when I swear you in, just state and spell your full name and provide your address also. Sure. Would you do you swear or affirm the testimony you're about to give in this proceeding will be the truth, the whole truth, and nothing but the truth? I do. Thank you. My name is Cynthia Scott. C Y N T H I A
Scott. S O TT. I live at 63 Sherman Place. Okay, your time starts now. Okay. Thank you. Um, thank you for hearing us tonight. Um, I I'm here before you tonight on behalf of the proposed Sherman Place Residential Historic District. I'm sorry. Are you speaking into the mic?
Oh, am I? You might just have to go a little closer. It's on. It's on. Okay. Um, I'm on I'm here on behalf of the proposed historic um district for the Sherman Place Residential Historic District, which was concluded in the the city's master plan. I'm from the Persian
Field Neighborhood Association and we've been working with the city for I would think about six years in in the going through the process of how to have this district created within the city. We also have raised funds on our own to have the survey done which was filed I
think in 2023 and we also um worked with the city to get funding for the um designation report which was filed I think in either December or January December 24 or January 25. I'm not sure of which exact date. Um the problem being that homes are going up for sale
in the area of the district, the proposed district, and and one was recently sold and now is being partially demolished. Um and it's of great concern to the people that have worked hard for many years to have this um done and work with the city on it to save the
architecture and the and the the history of our city. Um and and we're asking for a meeting. We don't um the public meetings have not been scheduled yet. We would like to leave here tonight knowing that at least the first meeting has been scheduled and that's what I'm here to ask you to do. Thank you.
Are there any members of other members of the public who would like to speak? I'm a little bit shorter. Um, not that short. Wait a minute. Sorry. Yeah, so good at these. Hold on.
Help was on the way. I guess I could hold it. Yes, sure. I could just hold it. I'm not going to speak that long. Let me ask you to raise your right hand, but do you swear or affirm the testimony you're about to give in this proceeding will be the truth, the whole truth, and nothing but truth? Yes, I do. Okay.
My name is Laura Ford. L A U R A. last name is F O R D. I live at 101 Sherman Place. I'm also uh in the Pingfield Neighborhood Association. Um as I'm sure
many of you know, um from 2016 on, we have been working with the city to have our area designated historic district. I believe that we're listed that way in the master plan. We've spent tens of thousands of dollars and gotten a lot of
community support over the past six years. Um, and just my understanding is that the only thing that's left is the scheduling of three uh community hearings which is out of our control. It's something that only the city can do. And yet there has been an extensive
delay and um it's a little bit beyond our understanding as to why there was such a long delay because in in the middle of that delay now we have a developer who is able to I think within about 6 weeks get a destruction permit
to destroy part of uh a house that is designated contributing house uh in order to build another house in the backyard. And so we we come to you in a feeling of desperation. We really would like to have these hearings scheduled and we need to have the protection. I
don't know if there is a way of having a moratorum on on any more of these uh demolition permits pending the hearings. If there is a way to do that, I would gratefully request that as well. But we really we really need to protect this neighborhood. It's it's there. Everybody
agrees that it should be historic and we need your help. Thank you. Can I ask you a question? Yes. How long have you been waiting for the hearing? Uh, at least nine months. We were told originally that it was going to be next last January or February is when they were going to be scheduled.
Okay. That's what I wanted to know. So, thank you. Thank you very much. Is anybody else speaking or should we? You're more than welcome to. I'll just say literally two words. You can take this if you want. Just know if I need to lower that or not. Do you swear or affirm the testimony you're
about to give in this proceeding will be the truth, the whole truth, and nothing but the truth? Yes. Anem uh P H I L I P P I A. Last name A T H A N A S I O U- V A R T S T R
V as in Victor. A A A R T S T R A. Literally, that's longer than what I'm going to say. No, I just want to also uh bring a voice of just the new families that are moving on to Sherman Place. I run a uh
community group for parents called Jay-Z Heights Parents in the Heights. And when the particular property that we're talking about came up on the market, there were a number of families excited and went to see the property and wanted to purchase it for their families. They wanted it to be their forever home and they didn't even have the opportunity to
go inside and view it because clearly now we know it was going to go to a developer from the get-go. Um I'm assuming but you know we can all kind of fill in the blanks there. Um you know I moved um on the block I think four years ago now. Um there's other folks here
that have moved there recently as well with young children and we just really see it as the place where we don't need to go out to the suburbs. we just need to go to Sherman place. Anytime anybody comes to my house, they're like, "Wow, this is such a beautiful block. I feel like I've been transported." And I moved
to the Heights from uh one of the first plant communities in the United States, Sunnyside Gardens in Queens, New York. If you guys are familiar, it's this beautiful um you know, like six blocks of uh historic houses that are facing
gardens. And the gardens are just as historic as their homes are. They're just as protected as their homes are. And what this developer is doing is demolishing this beautiful green space. Um, so I can't sleep at night. I have two young kids, three and a half and 10
months. They should be the ones that are keeping me at night. I should be planning my block party with my neighbors. Um, but instead I just passed this house and honestly, I grieve. We need to protect it. We also need to look at what the ordinance ordinances are in
place that are allowing things like demolishing part of a house for 3 ft of space to get back to an edu after you're already lengthening that. Like a fire truck is not going to be able to see where that fire is coming from. That lot is so deep. It's just irresponsible.
There's all these loopholes. You guys need to talk with zoning, talk with planning, and deal with that as well. Um it's just it's scary what they're able to do. And then my last anecdote is my for how quickly that that property was able to
get their um destruction um uh permit as Laura called it. My friend uh wanted to add an addition to her house so she could stay in the Heights um after she found out she's pregnant with a third. They needed to expand the home. It was year it's been years uh since they were
they they basically are not getting their permits granted. I don't know why. There's like runaround happening. She's moving to Asbury Park. I'm losing my best friend. So, I'm extra angry that a family wanted to stay in the Heights and they were not able to do so. Um, yet
this developer is able to get their way in 6 weeks. So, I'm also angry, but mainly thankful to you for listening. Thank you. You swear or affirm the testimony you're about to give in this proceeding will be the truth, the whole truth, and nothing but the truth.
Yes. Ivan Garcia. I V-n A R CIA. I also come as part of the Sherman Place community. Um, last week was a sad day. uh last Thursday where we found out that this developer is going to demolish uh
this house. And honestly, it's it's more than the house. It's we're we're really scared we're going to lose this community. Um you guys have heard of microclimates, I'm sure. A microclimate, a microclimate, right? So, a microclimate, what it is, it's a a sub region uh that has a different climate,
different weather pattern than the larger uh region that it's part of. And you really have to protect this the microclimate. The reason you want to protect it is if you destroy that microclimate, it actually doesn't only impact that uh region, impacts the region around it. So, Central Park
microclimate, uh it's a lot cooler in Central Park than the rest of the of the island. If you were to bulldoze Central Park, um Manhattan would actually get a lot hotter. And I'll use that analogy uh to just talk about what's going on here that I'm concerned about. I feel like
we're about to lose a microclimate. And not only are you going to hurt Sherman Place, you're also going to hurt the rest of the community. There's a give and take when it comes uh to this. Um Sherman Place has meant so much to me. Uh ever since a very young age before I even lived on Sherman Place, I would go
down Sherman Place and and look at all the trees, look at uh the architecture. Um I'm I'm really scared we're we're going to lose that. Um I'm asking you guys to please do everything you can to just get that one meeting on. That's all that's all we're asking for today. Let's get that meeting. Let's make sure that
we are able to hold on to this community. Either God agrees or disagrees with me, but um hopefully he agrees. Um and that's all I'm asking for. Thanks a lot, guys. Thank you. Any other members of the public?
Hello. Raise your right hand and be sworn. Do you swear or affirm the testimony you're about to give in this proceeding will be the truth, the whole truth and nothing but the truth? I do. Hello. Can you hear me? Yes. Well, nice meeting you. I'm Janette
Pilah. I'm uh I live on Sherman Place as well, 106. Uh so we're really old neighbors here. And as you can see, I arrived late because I'm coming from work. But just to uh testify how important this cause is for me. Um I
left at 4:30 um for other plans and uh really cut everything short to be here with you to tell you how uh significant this can uh be for our community, but also uh how big of a ripple effect this can have for Jersey City overall. Um the
uh first day event, well the first day uh appeal was really alarming to me at least. uh the fact that this is one step uh further from protecting uh any historical uh let's say heritage that we
can have here in Jersey City. I'm coming as I said already last Thursday from uh France where this is a no-brainer really and uh this is what people are coming uh to visit from all over the world. I was hoping that Jersey City would be the
same. And this is true actually for people who come and visit from New York City. They do talk about uh the Heights. They do talk about Sherman Place and some a few other streets. Uh as much just as much as they talk about uh downtown and uh by you know risking um
this uh Sherman Place development, I see how it can actually impact uh Jersey City overall. Um, so that's that's the only thing I wanted to say today. Thank you for listening. Thank you. Oh, you just leave. Yeah, you can just
leave the mic on. It's okay. Just don't want it to fall. Thank you. Thanks. Hi, and thank you. My name is Mary. Oh, your hand. Yes. Do you swear or affirm the testimony you're about to give in this proceeding will be the truth, the whole truth, and nothing but the truth?
Yes, I do. My name is Mary Kenones and I live at 105 Sherman Place. Tell your last name. Q UI N O N S. And I speak for everyone here on this side. All we need is our first meeting date scheduled so we can
move forward. Can we have that date tonight? Can we know of that date? Can we push it? I mean, I don't know. I don't know who's in charge. I don't Well, all questions are directed to the chair. When we're done with public comment, we'll go through all of the ones. Michael's been writing down notes.
Okay. And how long will that take? Like more or less. What's the turnaround date? We'll answer questions when we're done with public comment. Michael's writing all the question. No, it's okay. That's all I had to say. And thank you so much, guys, for listening to us. It's very alarming.
Anybody else? You can take it out of the holder if it's easier. I think it will be. Thank you. Do you swear or affirm the testimony you're about to give in this proceeding will be the truth, the whole truth and nothing but the truth? I do. Name and address.
Luke Yorker 106 Roman place also came running this way. Lac is the first name. Lo RCA is the last name. L O RCA for Carolina. Thank you. Sorry, I'm still catching my breath. I run with Janette to come here.
Uh I just wanted to emphasize with you guys and thank you for giving us the opportunity to give our part of the story that for all people in Sherman Place and for all people in the neighborhood including the dog walkers that come for literally all of Jes City Heights the preservation of Sherman Place as a historical place in the
Heights is a of crucial importance. I have many friends and we came from New York City living in New York City having moved recently to Jersey City. Many of our friends are moving into Jersey City into the Heights for those heavens that are like Sherman Place, Palisades and other places in the city.
Not getting this for those what slight accent. So I need to I've been told that before. You're not the only one. And you're right. They're moving into Jersey City. Yeah, I I'll go slower. Streets. Yeah, I I'll go slower. So we have a couple of streets in the neighborhood including Sherman Place, Palisades and a
few other places in the Heights which really are the places where people are considering as a move to go to Jersey City to relocate in Jersey City from other places not only around Jersey but also from Manhattan. that drives the both the in my mind the spirit of the
neighborhood as well as the spirit of the neighborhood as well as it drives in my mind a sense of community sense of community in the sense that if you think about if you were to walk in the heights for Halloween for instance you'll find Sherman place being one of the key spots
where everyone wants to go everyone knows what's happening there it's one of the best decorated streets in the neighborhood part of that is due to the actual landscaping the historical buildings and the houses that you have down there. It's also due to the fact that you have trees that you have everything that makes that street
unique. And this is really what I hope that you will consider preserving because if you if that's left open to developments and if the historic preservation doesn't go through in short order, there's a big risk for us as a neighborhood that that sense of community goes away. And that's something that's crucial not only for
us, for the neighborhood, but also for our children, for everyone that will grow and will get to benefit from what we are benefiting from right now. So I just hope that you will as a group consider that this is something that for the community, for the heights, for just as a whole, it will set a great example
and a great landmark for our future to basically let us protect that street and preserve it in the way it is right now. Thank you very much. Thank you. And sorry for speaking too fast. Anyone else? It like slides and I can Yeah, it's very
annoying. Doesn't fall. That's good. Looks like it will. I promise it won't. Are there any other members of the public who would like to address the commission? Okay. Okay. Seeing none, I'll make a motion to close public comment. Second. All in favor? I
I Okay. All right. Some of the questions that were asked. Oh um the first of all I sympathize with all of you. All of you are also looking at me knowing that we have been working on this together for this many years. I have been with you
every step of the process from beginning to I I had community meetings on this with you guys in 200 I'll say 19. Um they the consultant did prepare a
designation report for Sherman Place. Um, we had included, we were able to include it in the master plan as a recommended eligible historic district because of a draft of that report. We received another draft of that report
right before I went on maternity leave. And that is someone's timer. Your time's up. And that is why there's been a delay. I've been out on maternity leave the entire length of time that you guys have mentioned. I quite literally came back to work 5 days ago. Um, so the there has
been no the re me reason meetings have not been scheduled is I have not been here to schedule them. I have not been working. I've been taking care of my son. Um, but now I am back at work. So we are obviously looking to pick projects back up including this one. Um,
so we will I am going to work on scheduling beginning to schedule the community meetings. Um I will we per my discussions with my director previously on this. Um the typical way we go about this is we have a couple of community meetings and then it has to go to the
HPC for a hearing, the planning board for a hearing and then city council for two hearings because it's a first and second reading of an ordinance. Um, so we will begin to I'll I'll email the councilman, see if he and I can come up with a date to host a community meeting on this through the councilman's office. If per I'm sorry, Bridget,
that took 29 minutes into a meeting to get to. Um, and if the neighborhood association wants to host a meeting on this as well, I'm happy to coordinate with you guys to either come speak at one of your regularly scheduled meetings or if you want to host a specific meeting for this, we can work together
on that and get a second community meeting on the calendar. Okay. Um, I'm sure one of you has my email. If not, there might be a card over here. Yeah, great. If you guys want to send me an email, we can start working on that. Okay, I appreciate you guys all coming out to speak. We do agree that we do
want to designate this. We have put the zoning in place to designate it. We are going to work on it. I just have a I have a quick clarification just on the building that they were talking about being demolished. Um, is that do you know if it's a full demolition or a partial
one? It's the western. It was the western the rear western wall of the building. Okay. So, it's not So, we can't have the We can't have shouting from the public. Sorry. Please wait. Um Oh, that's all I wanted to clarify. If it was a full demolition, a partial
demolition and if it was a full demolition, would we be seeing that? But since it's not a full demolition, we we won't be, unfortunately. Correct. Okay. Did any of other commissioners um get hear any other questions that were asked
that we I did not address? Just a little more clarification on when a meeting because you said you're going to work on it and Maggie, I know you're busy and I know you're just back, but I think they specifically asked how soon. They wanted to come away with some
understanding of when it could start. So, I think that's critical given what's happened on that block. We would have been hearing that case had this historic district been in place and we we didn't. So it wasn't within our jurisdiction to hear. So
when is the next Persing Fields meeting? Okay. When is the one after the next one? Yes. This is like not able to Yeah. And she only one at a time. probably would be a better time. I'll I'll come to that meeting in
October. Just email me with details, please. And but we we can't take any more questions from public comments. So, we can we can do everything else over email. Please send me an email. I will happy to hop on the phone if that's easier than email. I think we had a couple of other
questions. One was about whether a demolition moratorum could be put in place pending the hearings. That is not a choice made by staff um or something that we can um that's a executive or
administrative decision that we cannot even I I I'm going to be honest with you the last time that happened that was a choice made by the mayor who was done through executive order and then that was overturned by the state courts and I believe that was citywide wasn't it? It was in fact citywide. Yeah.
Yeah. Uh guys, guys, you can't you let it let us uh do this. I you can't join in at this point. Sorry. So that yes, that is something that is that city planning staff cannot do on our own. Um to my knowledge, our director
cannot do that. That is something that in the past has been done by executive order from the mayor. Okay. And the other the other question I heard was can we can we so to that first? So if
the public or maybe the HPC would address the mayor on that purpose, does that mean in the past? To my knowledge, that is the only person who has been able to do something like that, but it was overturned by the courts. So I'm not sure of the status of being able to do that now.
Uh I I think we also heard a question about how did the developer in this instance get that partial demolition permit in in about six weeks which seems unusually rapid. I did not review that application. I
don't know timeline. I don't as we did not review it. It not in a historic district. It's not something that we can speak to the timeline of. I do know a lot of that was discussed at the or I assume it was discussed at the zoning board meeting. I'm not again it was not something that we reviewed
because it's not a historic district and I understand the pain point of that sentence. I do but I don't have I don't have an answer on timeline as to why things were and were not reviewed. I physically wasn't here and as someone who was involved in the
process, I will speak the zoning review application timeline and again I'm not a zoning review agent but is 10 days. Um it is not the 45 days that the HPC uh timeline review is. Um so when an
application is submitted, zoning review agents only have 10 days to review that application um and then ask for any changes. So, it is a different process than the HPC reviews. Understood. Um, is it possible for the HPC to render
a recommendation to the zoning board even if it wasn't required to come through our board and what I mean by that is I read the guidelines. Michael was nice enough to send them to me on what the zoning board was using. And
there were um there were remedies there. There was the possibility of using the Secretary of Interior guidelines. There were some things in there that talked about not changing the uh view from the street if I remember correctly. Um, and
even though we didn't get to hear that application because of it not being in a district, does the HPC have the ability to render recommendations to zoning on properties of significance in the in the city? Commissioner, I'll take that question.
Off the top of my head, I'm not quite sure, but I can certainly look into it and give you an opinion after. Um, that would be helpful because I think more of these cases are going to come up and if it had been a historic district, we I I'll venture a guess that we probably
wouldn't have approved that application given the demolition involved. So, um, I I would I as a commissioner would like to know whether we have that ability. I will take your question and get back to you. Thank you. Anyone else? Well, we closed public com
that's from you guys. I was saying I'm sorry. I was saying are there any other questions from the commissioners? All righty. Well, let's a motion to close public comment. Already closed. So, we can just move right back into applications.
And I'd just like I'd just like to add that I think you know I'm I'm hopeful that this can be done soon. when we did the Westber I was part of the West Bergen East Ligan Park designation which is I guess like 10 years ago now and it it is a multi-step process but it is it
is uh I think worthy and u as is as is this district so I'm hopeful that that can start and um we can protect the the neighborhood. Thank you all for coming. Have a good night. Thank you for your time. As I was saying,
um, should we move back into We're going to move back into regular schedule of business. Do I need to read it again or Yeah, if you could call it again just Sure. We're calling again uh for the second time. Uh, let's see. Ka case H-24-0407
SX3 Architecture PLLC. applicant on behalf of Von Cheney, owner of 635 Jersey Avenue, apartment 2 in the Hamilton Park Historic District. They're going for a certificate of appropriateness for the interior renovation and construction of a
proposed roof deck at an altered contributing Italian8 rowhouse built circa 1865 in the Hamilton Park Historic District. You guys here? You can come right up and to this. You go to the podium, not the
com public comment. Mike, whoever is testifying. Yeah. And if you'd raise your right hand to be sworn, do you swear or affirm the testimony you're about to give in this proceeding will be the truth, the whole truth, and nothing but the truth? I do.
And state your full name. My name is Sean Steinbugler. S E A N. Steinbugler. S T E I N B U G L E R. And Mr. Steinbergler, will you please provide the commission with the benefits
of your qualifications? I am the owner and architect at SX3 Architecture PLLC. I'm licensed in the state of North Carolina and New Jersey, and I have the business licenses and the PLLC license to practice architecture in the state of New Jersey.
Great. Uh staff recommends the chair accept Mr. Stein Bugler's qualifications as an expert in the field of architecture. Accepted. Feel free to begin your testimony. I don't know if you have any digital things that you want to project or anything. I have you guys all been had a chance to
review the set of drawings that were presented to the board. They are all uploaded on the data portal. Um, everybody can pull them up in front of them. If you'd like, I can also plug in and project them if you don't have a copy. I I have my laptop that I can use if you'd like me to. Yeah. Yeah, if you wouldn't mind. I
think it helps. Okay. Yeah, I say it's always helpful to have them up there because sometimes things load very slowly on these like right now. Yeah. Okay. Since everything's muted,
what kind of plug? Oh. plug over there. Yeah. Yeah. Plug in my laptop because I don't know exactly how long the battery life has got left on it. Um, in addition to that, uh, we had a
little bit of a lastm minute, uh, acceptance to this proposal, um, for for this testimony this week. And so, in in that vein, I do not have all of the material samples for you to review. I do, however, have paint samples for the
Stuckco finish that will be we would like to propose to use as the exterior finish of the bulkhead. Um the remaining samples would be just the TX uh trans or lineage bis biscane is the
decking material and everything else should be painted black. Um the EPDM on the roof should match the EPDM of the existing roof and all the adjacent roofs. So that shouldn't I would assume shouldn't be an issue.
Um, and the interior renovation is such that nothing will be noticeable from the exterior um, in any way, shape, or form. So that I don't see I don't personally foresee any issues with complying with the rest of the neighborhood on the interior. Uh the the exterior was
specifically um designed in such a way that it shall not be seen from the street in any way, shape, or form until you get to, I believe, the third floor of the buildings across the street. Once you're on the third floor and up, then you can
kind of see over the top of the cornis line and there's a chance that you'll be able to see the uh adjacent property. Let me I just want to project one thing for you instead of all of it.
All right, cool. Why did it just do that to me? Okay. Not sure why it's changing from being extending to duplicating again, but it's always the way, isn't it? That's why
this is the one that we just used. So, the document I'm pulling up right now is the set of drawings that was presented to that was submitted for approval. Um, and it will be hopefully much smaller than it is right there. Clearly
not. Okay. There we go. And yes, I know that my signature is on there. I got it. Um so as you can see from this this street section here uh we were very ad or very proactive on the location of the
bulkhead to make sure that there was no portion of it that was visible from either the stoop or any other portion of the buildings across the street. We wanted to make sure that everything was um was very conscious of the fact that
we wanted to preserve the the fabric and the nature of the buildings around us. Uh and even to the extent that it has been pushed back from the back wall so that it is limited in the amount of obstruction of from the backyard right away as well. Uh you will see the the b
the railing the for fall protection but that is intended to be very transparent. It's a metal railing as in as illustrated in this in this section here. It's just a metal railing with vertical ballastrades. Um,
that's probably easier to see now. Go up. It's the existing. Why did it go down pages there? There it is. You can see in the section here that is on your on the larger screen. It's just
vertical sections and uh horizontal top and bottom. Um the structure to hold it up is intended to be not even per or penetrate the roof. It is a series of structural structurally composite standoffs that actually uh sit on the
roof with minor adherence to it so that they don't slide off. and then not being penetrating the roof. So that if in the future this does need to be removed, it's not a lot of extra uh impedance on whatever future projects may occur.
Um all the lights have been considered and all of the lights are downcast not to pro project upwards and create um light. What's the word I'm looking for? Not not light up the whole area. It's not it's not making it so that there's
no beacon on that one property. It's intended to be downcast so that it's just for lighting of the space when people are occupying it in the evenings. Um there is intend it is intended that there will be vegetation on the roof, but the vegetation has we have noted that we're going to make sure that it's
low enough to not be visible from either public rightway, whether the front yard or the backyard. Um and we're in the the the function of this is because we wanted to have an outdoor space available for the upper tenant of this building. Currently, the
only outdoor space on this building is the backyard and the backyard has been deemed to be more private to the lower floor tenants and they didn't want to have to go through their that to get to the backyard. So instead of building a
balcony off the back which would impede the lower tenant or also disrupt the aesthetics of the rear facade, the decision was to go for more for the roof which keeping the envelope the same of the existing building.
Um, that's if I'm I don't know of any other things to describe this building other than we're trying to maintain every detail that we can of the surrounding neighborhood in the application of these new elements to the to the existing structure.
So, is there any view of this um over the rear facade from Sixth Street? From Sixth Street. If there is any view from Sixth Street, the the view is of just the railing at most. You can't I don't believe you can see the bulkhead at all from Sixth Street.
Okay. Um and actually I think it's on the map up here. Yeah. So from Sixth Street, this building here actually blocks your view of the whole building completely.
Um from 7th Street there is a large um rear fire stair that has been installed on that one portion. It's not shown up on this map because it wasn't drawn and I don't know know the dimensions. This this block plan was taken from the from
the New Jersey city or Jersey city state or block area plan um from the website and that's how I was able to get the locations of these properties. Uh there's a element that was not on that plan that is about right where the
cursor is. That is a large uh rear stairwell that has been that was installed that I believe impedes any view of this bulkhead from Seventh Street as well. Uh we do I do know that there was a a bulkhead roof deck right where this one is located and from there
obviously you can see it, but that was the only one that I remember being able to see. We happen to have a a mutual friend who lives at that location that we were able to go up there and see and take some photographs to make sure that what we were doing wasn't impeding the rest of the view.
All right. Can you um take us to the floor plan so we can see the size of the deck and what it occupies on the roof? Yep. Um, so this should be the floor plan exist existing above and proposed below.
There's an existing skylight that is being removed and there's an interior stairwell and that interior stairwell is just being extended one more floor to get to the top and that skylight is being removed and replaced with the bulkhead. So this is the the existing
above and the proposed below. And I think you mentioned before, but it looks like it's set back from the the actual rear facade and the power pit or if there is a power pit. So it's set back a few in the only parapets are longitudinal on the building separate the the fire
rating ones that separate the town the row houses. There's no parapet on the back side. There's only a parapet on the front side. Uh the the backside actually just goes down and that's where the gutter is for the rear drainage and it runs down the whole length of the building from there.
And how close is your the rear railing to the edge of the roof? The rear railing is as close as I'm allowed to get it for structure. It lines up directly on the wall below it. Um but that is because I wanted to have the uh secondary access to be through
the fire escape which is already there. I didn't want to have to have I didn't want to try to create a new structure back there to Oh, so there's a fire just so I understand right here. There's an existing fire escape. I see. And that that was the only existing
access to the roof for maintenance or anything like that. So, I wanted to utilize that. So, we didn't change anything on the rear fire escape at all other than maintenance. I wanted to keep that as as original as possible. if it is requested, we can make a little
landing right there and pull it pull that railing further in if that's something that you guys would would need. Um, but I was trying to keep it as as original as possible on the rear facade. I'm not sure I I I'm not sure I understand how the how your roof deck
and your roof railing relates to the fire escape on the back of the building. You say you wanted to keep it original. So, correct. Are you saying that's going to be a means of egress from the roof to the fire escape? That is the that is the alternate means of egress is to get down. If there's a
fire inside and you're on the roof, you are able to use the re rear access through the fire escape. I see. I didn't I didn't want somebody to be stuck on the roof and not be able to get down. Okay. Are those Do you have a photo of the
roof facade? Um, I do actually, I believe, have a photo of the roof facade. Let's just have to find it. Um, what is the Wi-Fi here? because these are all not on my on my local drive.
It's the public Wi-Fi. Yeah, it should just be public Wi-Fi. Yeah. And then you have to agree to some consent that I honestly can't tell you what's in there, but I'm pretty sure they're not going to steal your data. Okay. Public Wi-Fi. Continue.
Double check here. See if this open. It might just be faster. I will I have it on my phone. I can pull it up for you easier that way. And I if that's okay, I can somehow pass it around for you guys to look at. There should be some dongles there that connect to the HDMI cord and one of them
should connect to your phone. Okay, I will do that. Yeah, there's a USBC on there and the lighting, so should be fine. Um, in the meantime, I will pull up the photo so that it's not going through all of them for you.
[Music] There we So this so these that's the this is the front facade if you guys are unfamiliar. Um and when I the samples that I have for the stucco actually match the the lower level stucco of that building. So
that way when we do the prop proposal it should look as if it was from there there from the beginning. Um, that was the intention. This is rear, I believe. Still interior. Still interior staircase.
Clearly, I took a lot of photos during my survey. That is the rear. So, this is the rear facade of the building. Okay. Um, this is not a photo a photo. now instead of the video. So, this was a a
couple of years ago, but uh that that fire escape with the stairs going up on the right side is the one I'm referring to. So, there's a f there's the ladder, the ladder, and then I guess the only question is do you need do you need a landing even for eress or can the gate
do you want the gate right there? Yeah. on the other side of the ladder. Anyway, um the intention was that the lad the ladder at that or the gate at that point swings in so that the deck itself becomes the landing when you get to the top. Yeah. Um
I wasn't intending that you would want to go up as a means of of escape, right? Um so the as you're going in the the door is going to be open when you're trying to escape. Um I don't want to go out in case there didn't want it to swing out. Excuse me. out in case there was somebody standing on the ladder. You
don't want to get hit in the face. Yeah. My only question is with this um existing uh roof ladder, is there a clearance requirement from like a landing requirement on the roof surface for that before the deck can start?
Um I was and not that I'm aware of. No. Um that's a it I believe it's just one more step up is if it was just a normal staircase. Uh I can do my due diligence and double check but as far as I'm aware there is
no requirement for a setback. Um currently there's it it is going onto the de the roofing itself from that point. So there's no physical landing up there as per se. Um regarding coming out of the the lower floors, there's a
landing because you're coming out of a window and you need to be able to step onto something solid to be able to go down the staircase. But you have you already are on something solid at the upper floor. Right. Right. I I think my motivation was you may not be required to do it but visibility from
the rear is also important to us. Correct. Correct. Um so I would I would prefer to have the railing minimized from the back as well. Okay. Um but I I don't know that you have a requirement to do that but you seem to be willing to step it back a little bit. Yes. If you would like us to step it
back a little bit from the from there, I can the the design is open such that if necessary um we can step it back 2 feet or something like that. See what other commissioners think about that. The only the only part to that is that we would like to maintain the amount of square footage that we've been
utilizing. So we would want to move the opposite wall slightly forward closer to the to the front of the building to make sure that we're not losing square footage of the occupiable roof deck. Yeah, as long as it's still not in public view, I can imagine. Yeah. Yeah.
Just a thought. It is in the ordinance. It does need to be 10 ft back from the facade. That's in the ordinance on the rear fac. The rear facade. Oh, not the rear facade. The front facade. The front. The front facade. Correct. Got it. Sorry. He's good on the front facade. 10 ft. I was looking to minimize its view from the rear. You're good. If
it was workable in the design and not going to be, you know. Yeah. No, I and and I will Von Vaughn is right there. I'll confirm with him before I make any changes obviously but I in in my architectural opinion I think we can probably make it manageable to do so. Okay.
Is there any visibility of the AC condensing units from any public right of way? the AC condensing units. I do not believe so. They are unless unless you're up a couple floors, you aren't going to be able to see it because they are stepped back from the uh rear facade
such that the angle of the sight line is you're it's going to be obstructed by the cornice. And what was the railing material? Uh it's black anodized aluminum. Okay. Thank you.
And before I forget, As I went as I went through the the exercise of finding these for you guys, I figured I would pass them around so you guys can take a look at them. Um, for the larger pallets, it is the third row up from the bottom.
the the be the front facade has been maintained over the years and depending on what part you look at and what lighting you have the shades and tones adjust slightly. So So yeah, I guess is is this different? No, there they I'm these are options to
try to match the existing. Yes, these are the depending on what part you look at. If you're looking at the front stair versus the front wall versus underneath the front stair, there's different lights and different colors of of And this is for the stucco clotting of the bulkhead. Correct. Yeah. I wanted to match the
existing front facade. Okay. If you're asking what we think, uh I I would tell you the lighter the better. Okay. because it's not so much that important that it matched the front of the building, but that it disappears as
much as a structure on top of the building. Correct. I I agree 100%. So, uh that would be my input. So, we can we will in in same tone and hue I will just if we go with lighter a lighter shade then it would it might help with visibility. Correct. I 100% agree.
It also is environmentally better because you're going to reflect more light than absorbing light. So, Exactly. You don't have to heat it and cool it quite as much. Sure. Exactly. Any further questions? Does that conclude your testimony?
I am. Yes, I am concluded. As long as you guys have all the answers you need. Okay, we will move on to uh public comment. Um if there are any members of the public who would like to address the commission regarding this application, please approach the public comment mic. Staff sees no members of the public and
recommends a motion to open and close public comment. Make a motion to open and close public comment. Second. All in favor? I. Okay. And we'll move on to staff comments. Um, so this is a pretty straightforward roof deck application. Um, as
the architect mentioned, uh, it is not visible from the front facade. The roof uh, bulkhead is sloped um, which further reduces visibility from oblique angles. Um, and this is really pretty consistent with similar roof decks throughout the
historic districts, including um, uh, the ones in the adjacent properties seen on the site plan. Um, HBCU staff believes that the proposed work, including the roof deck, bulkhead, and interior renovation, will not have an adverse effect on the historic district
or the resource. Um, and in HPC staff's opinion, the project as proposed will not cause an adverse effect on the character and/or integrity of the historic resources or the Hamilton Park Historic District and recommends a motion to approve uh the certificate of appropriateness with the following
conditions. Um, so the conditions in the staff report are standard conditions. The one that I did grab while we were talking is the applicant shall work with HPC staff to move the roof deck uh footprint further from the rear facade. I don't know if we wanted to put a
specific distance. The the only thing I was going to say, do you I don't know if you were able to go on a site visit and see if you think we're going to see any of the railings just so they're pushed back to minimize visibility. So, I didn't see anywhere that you would
see it from um from Jersey A. Uh yeah, it's obviously would be over the the the rear facades from sixth or seventh. I don't believe that they'll be visible. Um but if we would like to move them in, one of the requests that I had made
while we were while I was reviewing the plans was moving it in a little bit. It was actually like on top of that rear facade. It's not a parapit, but end wall. uh and they moved it in a few inches to uh satisfy
myself. Um if you'd like to them to move it further, I I don't see an issue with that. Yeah. If it's not going to adversely affect where the bulkhead is coming through from downstairs, we're not looking to create any um you know uh burden for the applicant, but a couple
of feet at least, you know, to minimize its view from Yeah. And there was enough there's enough room in the front where they can go back and not hit that 10 foot um requirement. So I think it might be more pleasurable to be up there when with when you're not sitting at the roof's edge, you know. So uh
whatever distance you can bring it back would be appreciated. Yes. Yes, please. Yeah. Want to go to No. Um yes. So I can move it's moving the bulkhead itself is is challenging
because of its alignment to the staircase below. Moving the railing forward towards the front of the building I think is feasible. Um obviously I would still like to keep the access to that stair the staircase. Um is there any way that we could put
would you like some us to put vegetation of or of some sort along that back edge or you want to keep it as as original as possible? Yeah, I mean the rear roof lines are as important historically as the front in my opinion. So if you can
not affect it, that would be great. Move it forward. Understood. Yes. Okay. And if you have a if you have a dimension that's preferable, I I don't know how far it has to go back. That's, you know, in order to not be seen and where is it you're not seeing it from. Um I think you can work
that out with Michael. Okay. And I I would this is I just remembered the one on the corner of that block at the far end by Jersey A and Seventh Street is not historically preserved. It's not part of this rowhouse and it is three stories taller than everything else. So you're not
going to you're not going to really see a whole lot until you get just in one little alleyway. So yeah. No, I think it's for the benefit of the other other people enjoying their yards. I understand 100%. I just wanted to put that into the the understood. Sure. Okay. So again, uh, HBC staff's
recommendation is a motion to approve the certificate of appropriateness with the conditions in the staff report as well as those read to the record. I'll make a motion to approve with the conditions as read by staff. Second. I'll take a roll call. Uh, Commissioner
Gunther, I. Commissioner Blazak, I. Commissioner Gordon, I. Commissioner Gutiardo, I. Commissioner Kbach I. And Chair Cronin I. Congratulations. So we have six in favor, no against, no
abstensions. The certificate of appropriateness with conditions is approved. All righty. Moving right along to uh case H-24-0463. That is Stephen Joseph ESQ applicant on behalf of Risha Batra owner. Did I get
that right? All right. Good. uh 214th Street in the Haramus Cove Historic District. They are here tonight for a certificate of appropriateness for the proposed fourstory addition to an existing four-story building, a roof deck, interior renovations and front
facade restoration at an altered contributing Greek Revival Townhouse built circa 1855 in the his in the Haramus Cove Historic District. Good evening everyone. uh Michael Higgins actually this evening from Castano Quigley Chrammy on behalf of the
applicant. This is 2144th Street. It's uh in the Horses Cove Historic District. Uh it's a two and a half story building uh that the the applicant is proposing to do in addition to the rear of it. Uh some work to the front facade uh and and convert it into a three-story building.
Um that'll all be evident when we go through the plans in a little bit more detail. Uh the purpose of the application really is this is a home that needs a little bit of work and touching up. Uh it it you know it has a little bit of uh ongoing water damage
from from different issues and and and some gaps in the uh some gaps in the facade that allow sort of rodents to get in. So it's just the applicant trying to make a little bit more room for themselves and their growing family. Um,
so with that, we do have only one witness. It's uh Jeff Jordan, our architect. If we could have him sworn in. All righty. Do you swear or affirm the testimony you're about to give in this proceeding will be the truth, the whole truth, and nothing but the truth? I do. And your full name is spell?
Jeff. J E F Jordan. J O R D A N and staff notes that Mr. Jordan has previously been qualified in front of this board as an expert in the field of architecture. Thank you very much commissioners for your time here tonight. Uh just one
moment while I plug in and welcome back Maggie. Thank you. a lot of options over here. While while Jeff is connecting, could we clarify how tall this building is and how many uh Yeah, cuz I read what was in front of
me. I believe it's three stories with a basement. Correct. So, a basement is considered a story in Jersey City. It says fourtory building. Four stories. Okay. Three stories in a basement. Four stories. And zoning and the attorney said two and
a half stories are being added to it. So, I'm confused. I think the half story is if you like I can take you through it. I was about to say, let's let Jeff take us.
He's the one who has to stamp them, so we we'll trust him on the heightened stories here. Okay. We um Yeah. So, um thanks again for the time tonight. We've spent all close to a year working on this application um both with Maggie, then with Michael and with Dan.
Um so, we we've sort of worked with the entirety of HBC staff at this point. um council was very generous when he said the house is um you know has a few kind of a little bit wear and tear. This house is in terrible shape. This building I'm sure anyone who's been
downtown is familiar with this building. Um it's it's a it's an anomaly. Um in the neighborhood on the street and the interior is actually worse than the exterior if you can believe that. Um the floors are incredibly uneven. There's a lot it's been so badly altered through
the years that there's really very little left inside to its sort of structural detriment to at this point. So what's being proposed is um as council mentioned was uh an expansion of the existing house. It is quite small. It's about 2200 square feet I believe
currently. Um pretty and that's including the basement space which is like a 5 foot tall space. um expanding that essentially doubling that space if you count the basement um to make it more suitable for their family. They're a growing family. Um they also have
older relatives who spend a good amount of time with them and so trying to accommodate that growth. Um so the the project's located on Fourth Street between um was it Iranian Grove if I'm not mistaken? Yes. Um if you can see in
the block plan here, can you see my cursor? Yes. All right. So, here here's the subject property. As you can see in the block plan, it's actually quite a bit smaller than its neighbors in terms of its footprint. Um, what we're proposing is an expansion, a rear yard expansion to the existing structure.
Everything conforms and complies uh with the zoning. There's no um variances being sought here. Uh it's all as of right from a zoning perspective. Um at the site plan level, what we're proposing is um to the front of the building an addition of a landscaped
area um which you can see here which will be replacing uh more or less uh a full front yard of concrete in this place. So adding some vegetation and some permeability um rebuilding the existing front stoop um and then a a
facade restoration which I'll get to in a minute. Um, as we move to the back of the house, the back of the property, um, again, it's sort of an underwhelming yard in this instance, um, we're proposing new fencing around the perimeter, new plantings, um, and a new
yard space for for their their child, perhaps children and dog, um, and for them to enjoy. So, quickly take you through the plans. Um, the existing basement, as I mentioned, is about 5t tall. Um, hard to stand up in. We're proposing uh a slight
excavation of the existing basement with underpinning and then an expansion into the rear yard to make this useful space both as a gym um a sort of shop kind of you know work space um and then a family room. There's a halfb down on this level
um as well. One thing you will notice is as I take you through the plans, there is an elevator um being proposed with this project which goes up to the bulkhead. Um that is again for accessibility for family members who um are not able to use the stairs
uh at the ground floor or first floor level. Uh you can see here this is the existing kind of open living dining kitchen space. Uh we're essentially proposing an expansion of that. So the front of the house would remain living space and as you move to the back there
would be kitchen um dining space. We're also proposing a secondary rear entrance which would double as a sort of mudroom. They do have a kind of narrow alley type space walkway um on the uh what is that? That is the eastern side of their property. Um, so there would be a
secondary access at the back of the property and then you can see it opens out to the backyard with a small patio and then the yard space. There is a light well element here um adjacent to the patio which would be used to bring light and air down into the family room
in the basement. Uh at the second floor level, there are currently two bedrooms and a bathroom. Um, what's being proposed is a new primary suite with an on-suite bathroom and closets and then a nursery space and an office space with a full bathroom.
That's the second floor. And then it what is currently a half story now um with one room and one full bathroom. We're proposing expanding that out toward the back again is the third story um in this case from a above ground perspective. Um, and there would be
three additional bedrooms on that level and an additional two bathrooms. So, those are the plans. Um, oh, sorry, there's one more. There's a roof plan. Um, so the the stair does and the elevator do extend to the rooftop. Um,
we're proposing a roof deck in the back of the property. Um, neither the bulkhead nor the roof deck would be visible from the public way. Um, and I'll show you this will become more clear in this section of the elevations. So the um the existing front facade as I
mentioned is um has been very heavily altered through the years um was up until just a few weeks ago was uh vinyl sighted. That sighting has been removed. We did some um site exploratory work with staff to um identify any evidence
that remains uh as far as what may have been there previously. I'll take you through some of those photos here in a moment. Um, but you can see on the far right side there, that's the 38 photo which is showing the facade at that point had already been altered. Um, best we can tell with asphaltic shingles uh
to look like brick. Um, and then again it was even more heavily altered uh to what it was just a few weeks ago and now it is um covered in a weather barrier protective um membrane uh until construction can start. what we're
proposing um and this was sort of worked out with staff and trying to um use a combination of the photographic evidence and then the site evidence we uncovered following demolition um is a as true as possible reconstruction of what would have been there historically. Um, so the
facade, I'm going to actually pass around these materials. The what we're proposing for the front facade is a wood um siding material. Um, unusually I think um as as staff identified when we were on site, the
siding had actually been there's two layers of siding. One is a a lap siding. We thought that was the original siding. Then the closer we looked, I'm gonna Sorry, I'm gonna switch to the um photos from from the visit. The closer we looked, we actually realized there was a
underlying tongue and groove um sighting which was determined which likely we think would have been the actual finish and not a sheathing. And so um we took a closer look at that and you can kind of see it.
Bear with me. So actually in this image here you can see if you see my cursor this is the lap siding that was added. These boards were subsequently added to that for the the benefit of the vinyl siding. But below that there's a board here
which is a tongue and groove and best we could tell from site measurements is a 1x8 um uh woodside board. So, what we're proposing is going back with a 1x8 uh wood siding on the front. I
don't know where my drawing went. Um the windows would also be trimmed in wood. Uh replaced new wood windows, six over six divided lights. uh a new uh front door, wooden door with a transom above
it. And then rebuilding the surround um door hood, pilasters, cornice um as well. I'll take you through those details in a moment here, but that's the sort of broad idea. The samples I'm passing around are of the wood siding that's been painted the actual color
we're proposing. And then there's a sample board showing the different colors including the siding, the trim, the window and door, and then the u the metal railing that we're we would be replacing the front yard uh would be that dark color there. The red metal is
what we're proposing for the roof. Um that apparently was a a popular color back in that day. Um, and so that would be both the the primary roof of the house, which you're seeing here in the rendering, as well as the um the the sort of corn sub corners over the door
there. The little bit of roof that's left from that. A little bit, what was that? A little bit of roof that's left over that the rear facade. We transition transition to a more modern, more um open facade with larger windows. We have
a a small balcony um and an overhang over the uh sliding doors or French door sorry from the um the kitchen space on the sides. What we um are trying to do here is you can see in the image above that's the original sort of massing of the building um you know
simple gable structure. We're trying to retain that um on the front. Note that the there are buildings on either side. Um on the west side, the building's about a foot away. It's set back a little bit further than we are, but it
um it will obscure the majority of the addition on the the right side as you're facing the building or the east there. There's that three-foot alleyway or roughly 3-ft alleyway. Um but that building is actually closer to the street, so it's obscuring um the facade
or I'm sorry, the side of the building as well. So the size of the building here are much more um clearly represent than they I think will be in reality on site or the experience of them. So what we're trying to do is maintain at least the appearance of the massing of the original building on the front and then as we get to the line where that
building becomes new construction um we're transitioning to the fiber cement uh siding that I included. We have a line of trim delineating it and that's also where we positioned the bulkhead such that all that mass is back from the original um form of the building. You'll
note on the side that there were uh windows up in that half story. Originally they too have been altered through the years and so this is our best guess um as to the size and location of them. That will all be determined once we do further demolition um as as one of the conditions of the
approval. This is the east elevation. Um along the east side here, you can see the bulkhead sticking up. Uh at the back there, you can also see the door entering uh into the mudroom. Adjacent to the door, that carve out in the building is actually a
spot for the garbage and recycling to go out of the way. Tucked in uh in section here. This illustrates the view from across the street. your sort of standard um line of sight. As I noted before, there is an elevator going from
the basement to the roof. Um it was really important to the owners that um that access be provided on all all uh of the levels of the building there. And so we've worked really hard to minimize the structure of the bulkhead such that the elevator will fit in there and it will
still be um not visible from the street. And note, as I pointed out before, that bulkhead corresponds with the back of the existing building. Um, we did that so that we could um a sort of maintain that original shape or massing. Um, and if I go back to the plan really quick,
you'll see that the sort of portion of the rear walls have been retained. Uh, right, you can see here. Um, and so all the rooms kind of line up along the back of the existing building. Then we have the bulkhead. Then we have the new space or I'm sorry. Then we have the stair and elevator. Then we have the new
space. So in section now you can see it is three stories above grade plus that basement space, the stair cut through with the elevator, the bulkhead. Let's quickly take you through the details. So we did have the benefit of
um some pretty good site evidence. I can show you here in this image um following the removal of the vi vinyl. You can see here the profile and the paint ghost of the cornice there over the door and the molding that would have
been there. Right? So we were able to take actual measurements of that. Um, we also were able to determine that there was a paneling adjacent a trim panel adjacent to the pyaster there. Um, so all that's represented here with the door detailing
as I mentioned a new stoop that would be made out of blue stone uh and concrete with a new railing. showing here the new um metal fence in the front yard and then the new wood fencing that would go around the
backyard. Some details through the new cornice um through the door through the windows are sort of tradition or sort of typical I should say um historic details for a facade like this. Additionally, we have details for the
rear facade. Again, a more modern take. Um a little bit more minimal detailing. And that's with the fiber cement, different window profiles, less trim, and some additional details at the roof, showing the the railing for the roof deck, um, as well as skylights and some
of the bulkhead detailing. I believe that is everything. Um, and I will conclude my testimony. And if we could just mark those photos um as an exhibit, those would be A1, I think. Were they added to the portal?
Uh these were previously submitted, these these drawings, they were on the portal. Oh, not the drawings, the exploratory demo photos. Oh. Uh yes. Um I believe those were uploaded as well, but if if they were not, then we can uh let's just mark them to be safe.
Okay, we'll mark them as A1. Thank you. Um, so that does conclude our direct testimony. If there's questions for the architect, I'm sure he's happy to answer them. I I appreciate the efforts to reconstruct the original design using
the site evidence. Um, can any of the historic fabric be salvaged? We saw the photos that you found of the um tongue and groove um material. Is any of that salvageable? Unfortunately, not. I don't believe so.
So, we didn't go through and do an exhaustive inventory of it, but the areas where we were trying to take measurements, we noticed the wood had been pretty badly is already starting to decay, crumble. Um, I'm I would imagine that's sort of indicative of what we're
going to find elsewhere. So, we can see as part of the demolition process, if we're able to salvage any of those boards, I do if if we could, that'd be wonderful, right? Um, I'm just judging by the number of layers that we found on top of this building, they're probably pretty whole riddled at this point. Um,
and yeah, so we could see what they're what condition they're in and perhaps if not reused on the facade, there may be a way to reuse them in the house somewhere. Yeah, I think that would be excellent if there are any portions that survive through the years. Um, I we saw the the sighteline drawing of
the bulkhead and it looks like it's a pretty close call. It's just barely not visible. Can you just confirm whether the bulkhead will be visible at all? So based on our measurements, which I will admit are not perfect in terms of the heights of everything on that in
that section through the street, our understanding is that it will not be visible. Now, what we've done in the past in situations like this is we basically will put a story pole up at that point during construction and have staff come out and take a look and we all agree that it's okay or not. One thing we did try and do, you can see
here in the front facade study, is at the stair, we're trying to dip the bulkhead back down to kind of follow the profile of the stair. Obviously, we couldn't do that with the elevator because of the the shape of the elevator, but um we can see what that actually looks like as we are framed up to that point if that's helpful.
Yeah, I I think it would be helpful to confirm that it's not visible from directly in front of the property. Um and then my last uh question is um about what the um rail and fencing materials would be.
Yes. So the the rail in front would be steel. The the fencing would be as you go back that's treated wood um on the back of the facade or I'm sorry in the backyard. And then the
sorry there's one area where we have Yep. So up here, if you see again, as our effort to try and maintain some of that uh roof profile, we we dipped the the edge of the roof down to the ceiling
or or roof level below that third floor there. And we used the zone between what is a parapit over the new construction portion uh containing the roof deck um and transition to uh a vertical picket to match the front um guard or rail that
would likely be in a painted aluminum in that case. Um same color as the steel down below. That is really more of a that portion of the roof if I go back to the plan. Yeah, I need to is not meant for um use. that is where
the mechanical equipment is being concealed and so that's really more of a safety feature. Um the building code requires anything within 10 feet of the edge of the roof have some sort of guardrail and so we're we're providing that there. The portion that is in the back is the actual occupiable roof deck that's going to be enclosed with a
parapit. No um special guardrail there. And is any of that um metal railing just behind the uh peak of the roof going to be visible from Fourth Street? So, as I mentioned before um and you can
kind of see in the the either the existing facade or proposed front facade image, the building to the east is almost all the way up to the street. Um I think it'll be very hard to get a sight line even with that alley space to see any of that. on the west
side. I don't think you're going to see it at all because that building is so close. Um, we're doing it such that if it is visible, it'll at least reinforce that roof profile so that you see the original kind of peak. Um, but I I don't think it's going to really be visible.
Just to be clear, the railings that are on the roof um that you were just describing are set in from the sides 10 ft. No. So any uh mechanical equipment that's within 10t of an edge of a roof. Yeah.
Requires fall protection. And so since we have equipment up there that's within 10 feet, we're providing that fall protection. And so that's actually out at the edge. We actually we could pull them in a little bit um if beneficial. And I suppose that's something along with the bulkhead when we take a look up there and if there is any visibility if
that's preferred we can pull that in. We're not using all that space on that side. That's all for utility essentially. So we could bring those in if it's helpful. And is is there any way to move the utility in further uh from the edge of the roof?
So we have um we're pretty close to the 10 ft. We we're trying to maintain a full height door there so it's easy to access that equipment. Um, so depending on the I suppose the final equipment selection and the footprint, we might be able to move it in 10 feet and avoid that. Um, yeah, because
I personally feel a little bit uncomfortable having people doing work even if it's beyond the 10 ft without any sort of fall protection. Um, well, we have that throughout the city on all of the uh all of these rowhouse roofs. There's no fall protection whatsoever. So,
and fortunately, they're not operating under my license, so I don't have to worry about them. But in this case, I think um let's see where the equipment is. I think at a minimum, we probably could pull it in a little bit. Yeah. Uh which might help with that sight line because any efforts you've made to maintain the roof line, although it's not all the way down to where it
originally was, is kind of eliminated by those railings. Yeah. And that's why we tried to keep them open at least so that you know, you you still read that roof edge. But I understand. Yeah. Well, am I read excuse me, am I reading this wrong? on this roof plan. You have the proposed proposed guardrails and
they're they're clouded and it looks like they are set in this. You're right. You're right. I apologize. They are set in already. We've already done it. We we're ahead of you on this. That's why I asked a question to begin with. Yes, this has changed quite a few times actually. So, yes, that that was Thank you.
Yeah. Thank you, Commissioner Bozac. and and the railing on the on the extension that you're building that goes right out to the edge or is that a parapit? That's a parapit. So, it's just continuation of that wall. Okay. I have other questions, but you guys can
I said that you mentioned you said treated wood on the wood fence that is uh in the same plane as the building. Is that is that right? Yeah. I should clarify that fence would not be and actually in the rendering it shows treated that would be painted the same color as the house. Okay.
Yeah. The fencing going around the backyard would be treated wood. Yeah. Okay. I think it actually calls it out as painted on the And I'm curious along those same lines as how it was decided to go to a metal railing out in front because this
building is from 1855, a a woodframe building. How did did it get determined that you do metal railings on the stairs and metal out front? I think that was I apologize for not there's been a lot of changes along
the way and I can't remember at what point we we were going to actually try and preserve the existing stoop and then we realized the condition was in and the the um rise and run ratio of the stairs landing all that did not work very well as it was and it was determined that it would have been wood originally
that's what I was yeah um I believe staff gave us the option of since wood is not that practical in this application anymore or using a masonry um substitute. So, she's got something for you there.
Oh, yeah. She's pointing out the neighbor's fence. We we were asked to continue the fence because that's the paradigm on the street, less about the period of the building, but the stoop itself, as you would identify, would have been wood. Um but the venture the the the the fence would have
been most likely wood as well. So, and it is an 1855 structure. So, I think that needs revisiting. Um, you know, we just had, if you recall back to, um, eight and 8 Street, uh, someone did something in masonry that
should have been wood, and we've actually had them undoing the masonry and putting it back to wood, and we spent awful lot of time on that. Um, I'd be I it doesn't look right either in in your drawing. Yeah. The only thing I would say is that
on 8th Street that is a whole block of these types of buildings. I know. And this is more the out outlier on this block. There's not Are there any other frame buildings on this block? Maybe one. This block's been pretty heavily altered, especially this side of this block. Um
I think your tax, excuse me, your tax photo, I believe, shows a wood fence as well, if I'm not mistaken. So, I I could see I could see there being an argument for context. said, I think I'd probably want to agree and maybe want to uh look at it a little bit
more on the fencing though, but um I think there could be an argument for what they're doing now. We just probably want to see what the context is on the block. Yeah. I mean, I may be speaking out of my expertise here as the attorney, but
after speaking with my client briefly, I believe there were a number of metal fences along that block. It doesn't matter if there's metal fences along the block. I mean, I that's usually what a applicant would say is that, well, there are other metal fences on the block. We're looking at this property to try
and determine what's appropriate for this property. And it's also an 1855 house. That's that's a pretty old house. And being a woodframe house, not a brick house, there's most likely it would have been a wood fence.
Yes. So we can investigate that further. Um the well the character of that block was sort of the consideration I think at that time. I spoke with my client. They're completely fine with it either way. We we can either way. Oh, that's good to know. Yeah.
Okay. Okay. There would be a lot less expensive. Um that's the sort of thing we could work out with staff if that if that um satisfies the commission or however you want to handle but there as as you said
they're open to it. We're open to it. Yeah. I think originally we didn't have any fencing there. Um we were asked to add a fence there. So do that too. Jeeoff this reminds me of the project that you did on Cold Street. I think it is one I think 115.
Do you remember if that was And it's kind of similar where that's kind of an outlier and there's not a lot of frame buildings and and I'm just curious. Do you remember if you did a wood or a metal fencing and a metal fence there? Yeah, that was a wood frame balloon frame. Really cool. It's a little different cuz it had the G
has a garage entrance, right? Yeah. And it had the old storefront on the left side, garage on the right side. There's a very small amount, if I recall, of metal fencing on the storefront side. Yeah. Um the garage side obviously not. So I I mean you've gone through uh painstaking
details here on the facade and all you know and to just see that metal railing just make that it it's there's an opportunity there I think to complete that facade with some more detail on the fence and railing that would really pull it together. We're open to it.
Yeah. Um, Commissioner Gutiardo, would it be an improvement in your view if the railing were wood, but the fence remained consistent with the existing block paradigm? I have no issue with uh I don't think there needs to be consistency in
railings. I think you have to go with what's appropriate for the prop the particular property. If in my opinion, and I believe there'd probably be more evidence, these stairs, the railings on the stairs and the fence were most likely wood on this property. That would
be my guess. I agree. I think the landing, the stoop, all that would have been wood. Yeah. Yeah. Yeah, I think that's right. I think I think the concession was that a wood stoop and stairs present other issues nowadays. I think the idea is like a masonry stoop
would be acceptable in this case because of the larger block paradigm. But right, yeah, we're open either way. I I think the preference would be to maintain a stoop that is masonry just in terms of maintenance and upkeep and longevity. I think if anything, we could look at the the handrails, guardrails, uh fencing as
being the wood element if there's an interest in having wood in the project. Other thing is we've added vegetation. And it would be nice for the vegetation to live, right? So, I'm the wood fencing won't really help with that. We'll probably have to kind of pull the vegetation back a bit, right? So, it's
not all in shade, but we're open to the fencing. So, I agree with the comments about the wood stoop and the wood railings and potentially also the wood fencing. Um, I mean, we're I do appreciate sort of the modern interpretations of some of
the materiality at the facade and even the roof. I don't think this building would have had a metal roof, but um I agree at the eye level, at the streetscape level, it needs to be a little more traditional. We do see a metal roof though in the 38 photograph, right? Yeah, that was our
And that's what this is based off of. Yep. So, like a later alter later alteration. Yeah, there are I mean there's some there's buildings on Mercer Street. It It may have It may have had an originally metal roof. Could Yeah. don't I don't oppose the metal roof. I I do like some of the modern
materials because, you know, the original materials are mostly lost and so it's interesting to bring it back in sort of a more contemporary way but still look traditional. We did on the 115 coals use a metal roof
um as well, similar period, right? So, yeah. And the basement windows or ground, whatever we're calling that down there, those are I see they're just kind of two small windows and brick. Do you have is that the historic size of the opening
down there or have you been able to find any evidence of what the windows were historically like on that floor? So the uh you can see on the front there, they've covered them over on the exterior. on the interior. There is some um we we think we're able to identify
some um sense of what those openings are. Once we do full demolition, we should be able to actually establish the original opening. Um and the discussion was that all the window sizes will be updated once we've had the opportunity to go through and take detailed measurements from the inside. Um once
we've exposed everything, including the basement there. All right. Any further questions for the applicant? I think generally generally this is a great project and uh if it turns out as good as it did on Cole Street, I think
it'll be a great addition to the neighborhood. Okay. If that concludes your testimony, any other things you want to add? That does. And I would just add we've received uh the staff memo prepared by uh Michael and uh we're fine with all
those conditions included therein. Uh I guess just for the sake of the record, I do feel obligated to clarify that it is uh I believe a non-contributing uh home on this block um based on the um
on the GIS map. But uh besides that the we're we're in agreement with everything in the memorandum and the um the state report and the conditions. Uh I will note that is included in the state report not in the local designation. The local designation
doesn't uh distinguish between contributing and non-contributing. Um but not a problem. Um, if that concludes the testimony, uh, we will move on to public comment. If there are any members of the public wishing to
speak in regards to this application, please approach the public comment. Mike mic. Uh, staff sees no members of the public present and recommends a motion to open and close public comment. Motion to open and close public comment. Second. All in favor? I. Okay. Uh, we'll move into staff
comments. staff finds this to be mostly consistent with the historic design standards and secretary of the interior standards for historic preservation. Um so we have a full height rear edition as they stated they are maintaining those wing walls in the rear. Um and
maintaining those what walls wing and also maintaining the pitch of the existing roof as well as the peak. Um the rear edition will not be visible from directly across the street and we can confirm that. Um it will be
obliquely visible through the eastern side as the applicant stated. Um additionally they are maintaining a 38 foot rear yard setback which is more than what is required uh per the zoning. Um
so as such the proposed reition at the property appears to be consistent with the existing block paradigm and the development patterns of the area. Uh, additionally on the 1938 tax card photo, you can see that there have already been alterations to the building, the asphalt faux brick, as well as um replacement of
the um windows likely, as well as some of the front facade elements. Um, since the 1938 tax card photo, we've also seen a replacement of that asphalt siding to vinyl, uh, changes to the wind window fenestration, changes to the
front door, removal of the chimney, and pingging of the brick foundation. Um, one of the things I think that Dan and myself both worked on this application as well as as was stated Maggie, um, when Dan and I were speaking with the applicant, I think one of the
considerations in the 1938 tax card photo, you cannot see the stoop. Um, it's not really clear what's there. Our take on it was rather than conjecture, we would kind of be open to
masonry as well as uh, wood. Um, since we didn't have a definitive answer on what that stoop was, uh, when we did the exploratory demo, we didn't really gain any knowledge on what material that that would have been. Um but uh additionally
as we I just stated the applicant uh started exploratory demo on the front facade um on August 19th and uh myself as well as Dan Rearen met on site with the architect on August 21st, 2025 to review that work. Uh the proposed work
to the front facade restoration reflects the information obtained from the start of that investig investigatory demo. Um, however, we would have liked to have seen a little bit more removed off of the facade while we were there, but we didn't have a contractor present. Uh, so we were kind of pulling things off with
our hands. Wasn't the ideal situation. Um, so further investigatory demolition is needed for the front facade to confirm those details, confirm all of those uh items. Um, and that kind of leads me into some of the conditions on the staff report. We have a few unique
ones, so I'll read those into the record. Uh the applicant shall continue an investigatory exploratory demo of the front facade to the satisfaction of the HBO. All information obtained from the investigatory work shall be reflected on the construction documents prior to
their signature by the HBO. Additionally, throughout the course of construction, site and photographic evidence shall prevail over the approved drawings for the restoration of the front facade um of the existing historic building. The applicant shall revise the plans
prior to the submission of construction documents to include detailed measured photographs of the front facade. All shop drawings are to be approved by the HPO prior to purchase, manufacture, and/or installation of the wood, windows, cornice, and doors. The rest of
the ones on the staff report are all our standard conditions. And then the ones that I picked up tonight while the commission was talking. So the first we have the applicant shall work with HPC staff to retain any historic material and if possible reuse the material on
the facades. Then the applicant shall uh provide a story pole for HPC staff to confirm the height and visibility of the proposed bulkhead. Um the roof area nearer to the front facade um in front of the bulkhead shall
not be used for leisure purposes. Um and then last and not least, the applicant shall work with HBC staff to revise the front areaway fence and entranceway stoop uh to wood. Any further things that I left out or anything that we would like to add?
Right. clarify the stoop as well to wood. That was one of the things I was going to ask. Do you guys the whole stoop masonry base wood railing? You know, I I you know, what are we basing our decision on? You know, if it's subjective, then you know,
we I certainly understand that masonry is preferred over wood, but what is appropriate? If you're going to wood for the fence and the railing, what would be the material that would be appropriate for the stairs? So, could I guess it depends on what it looks like in terms
of does it make sense for masonry to be below below those wood railings. Uh, Jeff, is it possible to make it, you know, feel right with the face with the front of that building? That's a good question. Yeah, we'd have to look at it. you know, it's so I would
say it needs to you need to have some solutions proposed in order to make that decision. Maybe the wording isn't um a wood stoop. It's a study it as a masonry and a wood stoop and see what you know satisfactor to staff. So maybe the applicant shall work with
HBC staff uh to revise the front areaway fence and entranceway stoop to an appropriate historically appropriate material. I would say, you know, revise revise the material based on historic evidence too could be one.
Well, I I think we already there wasn't really any evidence. Maybe Yeah, maybe in in conjunction with staff with um an expressed preference for the use of wood materials whenever feasible
or like a paradigm within this historic district for buildings of this type, style, and age. Something to that effect. like there are other examples of this era of building in the neighborhood. Yeah. I don't think I don't think it should be up for grabs whether the
railings and the fence are wood or metal. I think it's pretty clear that wood would be the appropriate material here. We're trying to make an allowance given considerations of durability and maintenance, but I mean ultimately it
it's a wood stair. I mean that that's what it is. I think also though compatibility with the surrounding buildings which is something we consider and the ordinance says it can't just be on conjecture. So if you're saying it needs to be wood, I would recommend that you say explicitly why you're saying
wood over stone or anything else other than general pref preference for the building type and the era type because that to me sounds respectfully like conjecture. Yeah. Right. No, understood. Understood. This is uh you know many years of hearing cases like this seeing buildings
like this and and that's where I'm making the reference from. It's we've seen it many times the age of the building this being a frame building it would be very rare if it's originally constructed with a masonry stoop. Now it could have come in
during the period of significance certainly but we don't have a good photo of it in the tax photo. We don't seem to have uncovered any good evidence on site. So I think I I do think at least the stoop itself remains open to me.
Um but the railings should be wood at a minimum. Um I I can certainly live with that. Okay. Okay. So, the applicant shall work with HBC staff to revise the front areaway fence and entrance stoop railing to wood. And the applicant shall work
with HBC staff to review the stoop to ensure its historical appropriate appropriate. There you go. Thank you. It would have been helpful, I
suppose, to have had um photographs of comparable properties from the area so that we could see what is present in in other properties. I mean, that's often times what we see. Um you know, when we have to make a tough call like this, we
will rely on similar properties as precedent. We don't have any here. There you go. Okay. So again, if the HPC finds that this application is appropriate with the
conditions in the staff report and those read into the record, um then HPC staff recommends a motion a motion to approve the certificate of appropriateness with those conditions. Motion second. I'm sorry.
Stephen. Um, Commissioner Gunther. Hi. Commissioner Blazak, I. Commissioner Gordon, I. Commissioner Gutiardo, I. Commissioner Kbach, I. And Chair Cronin, I. Congratulations.
So, we have six in favor, no against, no abstensions. The motion, the certificate of appropriateness with conditions is approved. Thank you. Thank you. So, I'll need a break unless we're finishing up in the next few minutes.
We are we are going to finish up in the next few minutes. So, as far as tabled cases, uh I do not have any updates on either the uh tabled case in uh the applications. Um 172
Belmont I do not have an update on. 384 communi I also don't have an update on um we have no resolutions to review and approve and we do not need an executive session so all that is left this evening is adjournment uh does anybody want to make a motion motion
second okay the time is 8:21 all in favor I thank you all Right.