I'm making this announcement in compliance with the open public meeting act chapter 231 public law 1975 laws of the state of New Jersey. The planning board secretary has prepared a schedule of this meeting of the planning board of the burrow of Kennallorth for the year
2025 and has posted a true copy of this schedule on the bulletin board located at the front entrance of Burough Hall and has mailed true copies of this schedule to the local source in the Star Ledger and is maintaining a copy of this schedule in Burough Hall. Accordingly, the notice requirements of the Open
Public Meetings Act have been satisfied in regards to this meeting. Can we stand for the pledge of allegiance? I pledge allegiance to the flag of the United States of America and to the republic for which it stands. One nation under God, indivisible, with liberty and
justice for all. Roll call, please. Mr. Pero here. Uh, Mayor Carovich here. Councilman Scree. Councilman Scree. Mr. David here. Mr. Clemente here. Mr.
Pentina here. Mr. Mazio here. Mr. Leowi here. Mr. Carella here, Mr. Grimaldi here, and Mr. Feli here. Is there a motion to approve the May 15th minutes? And the motion made by Mr. Grimmaldi, seconded by Mr. Clemente. All in favor?
I Okay. Communications. Kathy. Yes. Chairman. Um, we received correspondence from Mr. Lawrence County regarding prior approval for 251 Monroe Avenue. Okay. Um, I'm just going to interrupt
here. I'm going to turn this over to Mr. Rego on that, but I'm going to ask everyone to project. The people out there are telling us that they can't hear us. Some of the microphones aren't on and the air condition that you're so frigid out there is not working as well as it should be. So, Mr. Rego,
this one. Oh, for Rego. Come on, Rego. Over here. No, it's okay. I can pro. Uh we we received a letter from Lawrence Calli in June 2nd. It's basically with regard to a prior application resolution
we did at 251 Monroe. We memorialized the resolution on June 8,23. There apparently is an issue with Amazon truck truck parking on site.
Is that what the apparently there's there's Amazon trailers on site and somebody my head here that someone said something to somebody about it and Cali wrote a letter saying that
um we covered this in our 2022 resolution and these Amazon trailers can stay where they are do what they do. Um I took a look at the resolution that we did and there was
um the storage areas that we were focusing on then was for entity called DOA USA limited. However, this resol and I need to speak to someone about it maybe Kevin. There's
different areas of the site. It's a big site. They mention the southern portion for DOA. They mentioned northeast portion and I have to sort out where these trailers are and whether DOA should be there or whether the Amazon
trailers are okay there. And that that's the main um uh issue regarding Amazon trailer storage. Um Kevin, off the top of your head, do you know what area DOA is? I
know we approve. I think it was the northeast northeast section. I'd be happy to look at that, Mr. Rea. Okay. But I do wonder if we're putting the card before the courts in this
matter. The uh Mr. Callie uh wrote to us mentioning a complaint from the bureau. The complaint came from the construction officials. Okay. It has nothing to do with this board. My
suggestion is that this board respond and say you receive the complaint from the construction official. It is not the business of this board. We suggest you pursue with the construction official and if at some point down the line, this
board is called upon to make an interpretation or they wish to make an amendment to their site plan or they want to come back to us and say anything they want to say. Then perhaps at that time they could do that. But right now this is between them
and the construction board judge. This board has nothing to do with this particular issue at this particular moment. Thank you. Your fault. Well, that's why when I saw this come across, I asked
Kathy to send uh correspondence to you and and Mr. go that before any letter goes out, I'd like to be a part of that because I did not want to take any kind of board action because I didn't think it was our position. I think it just
should go right back to the the permit department and zoning and let them take care of their business. Correct. Yeah. Okay. So, that's the way I'd like to handle it. And Mr. Ago, got it. You can now send that letter over to them to state just that this is not our issue.
You would have to straighten it out with us. Do do they have this already? This was sent to the bureau of account. Does who have it? The construction board. Yes, they do. Okay. Chairman, I have a direct response. I'd be happy to share that with you.
Okay. I would I would like that. Okay. Stating what you just said. Yeah. Exactly. Yeah. We we got to we have to keep our business our business. When we take the overflow, it becomes crazy. We have to take care of what we do or it
becomes your business, right? And we don't want it in our business. We want to stay in our lane. Okay. Um, enough with that. Okay. Next. Uh, correspondence. We received an email from Mr. Frank Neri requesting the
following applications be dismissed without prejudice. application 24010 720 Boulevard and 7:30 Jefferson Avenue. Okay, Kevin, I think you should take the helm here. Chairman, these two properties were the subject of two
separate applications to this board dating back to last perhaps November. They were deemed and complete at the end of December. Um, I had been in contact with the applicant asking for updates. Uh, as of
a month ago, we have received none despite repeated requests. I suggested at that time that either submit what's required or the board may take action to deem
these applications um to deny them without prejudice because they're on the books. But it would be best if the applicant were to advise us. The applicant has advised us that they no longer wish to pursue these
applications. My understanding is that there were court actions concerning this. They are separate and beyond this board. So whatever they are will continue or not as they desire. But we do not have these two applications on
our books anymore. The board would be asked to uh pass two resolution two resolutions denying the applications without prejudice so they can take further action as they wish. Okay. So, what we would need to do as a board, we would
have to have a motion to um dismiss this application on both of these applications uh without prejudice. Is that correct? Okay. Is there a does the board understand that? Yeah. It can be done through motion vote or you need a
resolution? Both. Best to do a resolution because it was the subject of a development application. I've always before do a motion vote. I get that. But then do we even need a motion without resolution? I'm sorry. A motion and a resolution would be in order. Sheriff, thank you.
So is there a motion to dismiss both of these applications without prejudice? Some move. Moved by Mr. David, second by Mr. Somebody out there. Clemente. Okay. And that's for application. We'll
call it 2410 720 Boulevard. And all in favor or let's take a roll call. No. Roll call. Um, Mr. Berno, yes. Mayor Carlo, yes. Mr. Spice, yes. Mr.
David, yes. Mr. Clementi, yes. Mr. Pantina, Mr. Mazio, yes. Mr. Leawy, yes. Mr. Kella, yes. Mr. Grimmaldi, yes. And Mr. Plesi. Is there a motion uh to dismiss without prejudice application 2409730
Jefferson Avenue? Moved by um Oh my god. Mr. Plesi, you need a name tag. And seconded by Mr. David. Roll call, please. Mr. Perno, yes. Mayor Carlo, yes. Mr. Scree, yes. Mr. David, yes. Mr.
Clementi, yes. Mr. Mr. Pantina, yes. Mr. Mazio, yes. Mr. Leowy, yes. Mr. Clea, yes. Mr. Grimaldi, yes. And Mr. Plesi. Okay. So these resolutions will be presented to us uh for our September meeting. Correct? Okay. All right. Next
item. Is that all Kathy? The next is a presentation. Okay. Okay. Next we have a presentation. Uh it's our fourth round housing element and fair share housing plan. Mr. Mreda uh uh from Harbor Engineering. [Music]
Thank you, Mr. Chairman. Director Michael Mista from Harvard Consultants licensed professional planner offices at 320 North Avenue Cranford, New Jersey. I am here tonight as the burrow's affordable housing planner to present
the fourth round affordable housing plan. I have a handout that I'd like to circulate. And the handout I'm circulating is a summary of the same document that is currently posted on the bureau's website. The burrow the plan is
the public is uh interested in reviewing the document. It's available to the public. Our copies have been provided to both the burough clerk and the burough planning board. So we have hard copies of the document in the building. We also
have electronic copies on our website. So if anybody has any questions about what I'm presenting tonight or think about have a question, it's available to everybody to review. Um with your permission, I'd like to hand out one
hand now. Absolutely copy. So far, yes, there may be a little bit. Yeah, it's actually my not my bedroom. You would have seen the pina colada.
I was okay. Your backyard. Okay, that's uh for the record, I just handed out a PowerPoint that is just a summary of the plan. I'm just going to go over it's a rather long and complicated document. The PowerPoint is designed to summarize
it as best I can and put it into as simple terms as I can. Also, um bless you. Thank you. Thank you. First page is just our cover sheet. And then the second slide, I have the presentation
broken down into four sections, history of affordable housing, fourth round affordable housing obligation calculation, overview of prior round obligation, our and our proposed fourth round compliance. And then I'm available to
answer any questions that anybody has. Slide three is the history section. We broke the history section down to one slide. A lot of information condensed on one one paper. As most people are aware, the Mount Laura one decision, the first
Moral decision was passed in 1975. We just passed the 50ear mark. So it is 50 years in uh of of court cases, legislation and so forth that is broken down behind that
below that 1985 the New Jersey state legislature passed the fair housing act which created COA the council on affordable housing which adopted a series of regulations and rounds. The
prior round was 1987 to 1999. The third round was 1999 through June 30th, 2025, which is next Monday, which concludes the third round. I'm here tonight to
present the fourth round plan, which starts next Tuesday, July 1st, 2025, and is a 10-year period. It extends through June 30th, 2035. Each round is a 10-year period. However, if you look at the third round, you're
wondering why is it greater than 10 years? Because the gap years are folded into the third round. That was the period of time when the COA legislation was going back and forth with series of rules that were continuously amended and
never passed through state legislature. So it created an expanded period of time until the MO decision was issued in 2015 which created the gap year plus the third round. So you have a larger time
period. I'm here tonight because on March 20th, 2024, Governor Murphy signed amendments to Fair Housing Act, which established the rules for the fourth round, which quickly going to walk through in the next slides, which is
fourth round affordable housing calculation. The report that again is available to the public and hard copies are on file goes into great detail how these numbers are derived and calculated. I'm not going to take up your time tonight and
go through all of the variables and all of the nuances of the multipliers. So I just simplified it on this slide just to give everybody a highle overview. Our fourth round where first of all we are in housing region two to be very
clear in the affordable housing world you're not working within the boundaries of a municipality or the boundaries of a county. We're working within the boundaries of a region. We're in region two. So we're in region together with
Essex County, Morris County, Union County, and Warren County. So when the numbers are calculated and and they are assigned that's they're assigned throughout region 2. Our number for
Burough County is then calculated along along with every other municipality is calculated by three multipliers, three variables and equalized non-residential valuation factor. What does that mean? In fact,
essentially it means how much or what's the value of your nonresidential properties in your burrow compared to the property value of other housing regions, other municipalities in your region and how much have they increased
over the years? That's a summit. It's more complicated than that, but that's essentially how you drive that variable. The next variable is income capacity factor which measures the degree to which a municipality's median household
income differs from the income floor of the lowest median income housing in its region. So essentially the wealth of our burough versus the wealth of the municipality that has the lowest level
in our region not in our county but in our region. Number three is the land capacity factor. How much available land do we have remaining in our borrow which report goes into great detail to show you that as everybody knows we're
substantially a built out municipality very little vacant developable land remaining. So our number of acres in that variable is very low and it's again spelled out in detail in the report.
Next slide. Average allocation factor. This breaks down those numbers one step further. Housing region 2. The prospective need as calculated by the Department of Community Affairs DCA
is 20,56. That's the regional perspective need. That's how many affordable housing units the department of the DCA has calculated using those multipliers I just went through that our housing region requires
for the fourth round. Then it's divided down broken down by municipality based on those three variables. And we conclude that the DCA has concluded that Kennaworth's fourth round present need is 35 and Kennorth's fourth round
prospective need is 208. Present need is the rehabilitation of existing units serving the low moderate households. Prospective need is generally known as new construction. Those are the new units that we are responsible for
providing. We don't really need to provide 208 for a whole host of reasons. I hit the highlights. One, we don't have any land or very, very, very little vacant land. So, we qualify for what's called a
vacant land analysis. That lowers our number substantially. But if you don't have a lot of land, how do you address your number? How do you put a plan together? You're required to come up with mechanisms as a municipality that recognizes you don't have a lot of
vacant land yet you still have this constitutional obligation. So what you do you create what's required what's called overlay zones and we have three of those in our plan. I'm going to go through one at a time.
The next slide is the timeline. Uh 2012 Kennaworth housing element fair share plan timeline. This all as I said Governor Murphy signed amended fair housing act in March of 2024
which then TCA released their calculations. Those numbers I just went through for our obligation for torch round. The DCA report had a calculation of 208 for Kennaworth for its prospective need and that was based on
4.65 acres of developable land. That's one of the variables I just spoke of. The Burough Council then on January 15th, 2025 adopted a resolution committing to that number of that number
of 208. So that then sent us to the court to get a order of memorial lives which was adopted on March 27th, 2025. And then we started preparing this plan. We had a couple of Zoom meetings uh in
April, April 16th and April 23rd where we talked through the outline of this plan and the plan was filed in advance of tonight. It was filed on June 13th, which is more than 10 days prior to
tonight's meeting. The plan was also filed with the office of planning advocacy at the state has required a hard copy as well as a hard copy sent to the Union County Planning Board. Notices were circulated to the current law for
joint municipalities and the plan has been posted on our website. So, we also have it available for the public both our planning board and our clerk. So, we've covered all of our notice requirements, hard copy, electronic copy. Under this law, under
this amended house fair housing act law, every municipality in New Jersey is required to adopt their fourth round housing element fair share plan prior to June 30th of this year. Again, June 30th concludes the third round. They want the
law requires new plans to be in place prior to July 1st. So by adopting this plan tonight, the town will be in compliance with the new amended fair housing act. The next step after tonight is council would have
to endorse a resolution. The council would adopt a resolution endorsing the planning board's resolution in support of this plan. Those two resolutions along with the hard copy of the plan are then
submitted down to CC hard copy through a portal and it will be evaluated over the summer months July and August. The next significant deadline is the last day of August. I just say September 1st. any
comments, critiques, challenges, edits, suggestions by either virtual housing center, New Jersey Builders Association, any interested party, the court, special adjudicator, so on and so forth would respond with their comments to this
report by the end of August. There's a series of additional deadlines that extend out through June of 2026. I'm not going to go through all those. They're all very well detailed in the
plan. I just want to assure the planning board one thing. I know this feels like it's rushed and that we have to hurry up and get this plan tonight, but the plan itself is about 50 60page document. It's a very long document. Attached to that
plan are a series of draft ordinances. I have three of them with me tonight printed out. I'm not going to start pulling them out going through them, but if I can draw your attention to anything in this plan as I go through this, I just want to assure you the plan these
ordinances are all in draft format. All right? And this is where we're going to start work over summer on editing, preparing, and finalizing these ordinances. We're required, every municipality
is required under this new regul new law that we every municipality have attaches a draft of their zoning ordinances to this document recognizing that this planning board hasn't had the opportunity to go through line by line of those ordinances. I just want to
assure everybody they're draft council is going to review them, planning board's going to review them. There is a time frame that we're going to have to as a group go through those ordinances and adopt them officially through council and planning board. The final
date of the adoption is not till March. I think it's 15th of 2026, but there's a lot of work that has to be done. basically wait for the challenges or any comments by September 1st and then we start working on these
ordinances and adopt them and file them by March of 2026. Next slide is the overview of the prior round. One slide present fire round fair share obligations. Again I've gone through the three rounds
1987 and 1999. Our obligation was set at 83 units. Our third round obligation 1999 and 2025. Our obligation is 271. Our fourth round need our perspective need which I've gone through tonight is
28. So the total is 562 plan addresses the fourth round 28. Fourth round compliance how did we do this and what are the mechanisms this is what everybody wants to talk about or
think about. There's a map that's called summary of affordable housing plan. You'll see essentially three colors, four colors I should say, on this map. And those are the areas where we're either putting a development or an overlay. And I'm going
to go through one at a time. The first one is the red area, which is the redevelopment plan that we have in place for 25 North 26 Street. That's the red area that's highlighted on your on your plan and that's already located within a
green area which is one of our three overlay areas. What's an overlay area? We're a vacant town. We don't have any land. We have this very large housing obligation. were required as a municipality to put zoning mechanisms
mechanisms into place that would collect affordable housing units and credits as those properties are developed into three areas. I will go through one at a time. First, we have what's called our RDP project,
real estate development potential, which is the 25 North 26 Street redevelopment plan. This is the project that has already gone through the redevelopment study phase, the redevelop redevelopment plan phase both adopted by council and
the site plan phase in front of our planning board resolution adopted April 14th, 2022. That site plan as approved would would collect 25 affordable housing units towards our obligation.
Next are the proposed foreground unmet need mechanisms. These are the areas of the town that are already developed. We recognize they're not vacant. And what we're saying at the municipality is as these three areas of the town are
further redeveloped either through reszoning, redevelopment or use variances or site plans in front of the planning board. Should the developer elect to submit a plan
that includes housing, we would have a set aside to collect those units as those properties are developed. I just want to underline one thing. I'm going to go through the three overlay areas. It is not mandatory.
It's an overlay that sits on top of the underlying existing zoning. So, any property owner out there in any of these overlay areas I'm about to walk through is not obligated to only build housing moving forward. It's an option. It's an
overlay that sits on top of the existing zoning. So that underlying existing commercial industrial uses can continue uninterrupted and new applications can continue to come before the boards and be approved and redeveloped
with as currently zoned without the housing if they choose. But this is an option. It's called overlay. First one is North Michigan Avenue quarter overlay. The properties are highlighted in red on
the slide. In the plan itself, it goes very great detail of the lot, block lot, street addresses of the property. So, if you want a lot more detail, you can take a look at the maps, figures, tables in the plan itself. This one slide just covers this overlay
area. The draft ordinance I spoke about that is attached to the appendix of the plan calls for an overlay density of 20 residential units per acre should somebody want to choose to build multif family housing in this area. There's a
20% set aside and theoretically if every single property were to be redeveloped with that density with that set aside we would collect 106 affordable housing. It's not required. It's an option.
Second one is the market street overlay zone. There's 17 properties in this in this overlay zone. Collectively it's 12.48 48 plus or minus acres all based on tax map and GIS data not individual surveys. There's a draft overlay
zone ordinance attached to your plan that calls for 18 units per acre of multifamily housing again as an overlay on top existing zoning. Should that should every one of those properties be built out at that density with the 20%
set aside meaning that there's acre units, 100 unit development. 80 of those units would be market rate developer can rent them out or sell them at any rate, any number he wants. 20% of those or 20
out of 100 would have to be restricted and set a spot set aside for low, moderate, very low affordable households. A lot of detail on the income levels, rent levels, all that is addressed within the plan itself. highly
regulated, be restricted, has to be affirmatively marketed. Can't just give to your friends or anything like that. Has to be marketed against anybody within the region. We would collect 45 portal units from
that to area. The third and final area is the former national pool site, Olay Zone. Five collected properties totaling 4.32 acres. with an overlay density of 15 units per acre.
If the entire site would re be redeveloped with multifamily housing at that density, the borrow would collect a potential 13 affordable units. Finally, summary of plan, my last slide,
try and capture all of the numbers for you on one slide. Again, our portrait obligation is 208. How how does our plan intend us to address that number? We have one redevelopment plan 25 26th Street. We
get 25 affordable housing units out of that inclusionary project and we get six bonus credits. That's 25% of the 25. So, we pick up six additional bonus credits. Bonus credits are incentives provided by
the state current towns to use redevelopment of older sites to create projects. So not really building one for one. We got to adjust our number. So we pick up 31 total credits out of that one
project. And like I said before, George Michigan overlay zone would produce 106. Market Street overlay zone would approve 45 and the former national pool oversight overlay zone will cruise 13.
The maximum number of bonus credits that we can get throughout the entire fourth round is 52. So again, we're not building 28f portable housing units. 52 of those could be bonus credits. There's five
pages on bonus credits outlining how to achieve those in the plan. It's well documented if you're interested. The use of redevelopment is one of them. So after the six that we collect on the first project were available for 46
more. Now, if a project were to come in in front of the burough council or your Ford or any other area of the town not addressed in this plan and is approved for multifamily housing, the plan has the default
mechanism that's called a mandatory set aside ordinance. So, if a project comes in that's approved by this board or a redevelopment project approved by council that is outside of any area identified in this plan, the mandatory
set aside ordinance automatically kicks in and we as a burl collect 20% of those units have to be affordable housing units being restricted in that development. I say to be determined because I don't know if we're going to
get any one of those projects. We can get one, we can get two, we can get none. So I I don't have a fixed number that we would collect under the mandatory set aside ordinance, but that's a blanket ordinance throughout the entire that's my presentation. I appreciate
your time. Mr. Ma, if I may. Um, when you talk I didn't see that. When you talk about um the other areas, is there a uh amount of units that this um
fair share housing plan would kick in? Is it six and above? Is it 10 and above? Or is it two, three, five or above? Five or above? Yes, sir. Okay. And in uh you have to give me a minute. and in
the overlay zones in those areas where uh maybe a developer comes in and let's say he's in the middle middle of Market Street as long he designates that area
industrial can still be on the left and the right and it can go up in that area. Yes, sir. [Music] Okay. Um, you could ask a question. You want me to ask? What do you want me
to ask? Okay. So, let me let me Does the board have any other questions? Can I have it? You want me to ask? Yes. 30% of our obligation to be addressed by age restricted housing. 30% of our number
they would have to now it used to be it used to be 25% that's one little carrot that they gave towns in the fourth round it was always 25% of your number in the fourth round they increased it to 30%.
Would that be 30% of the 20% that is to be that lower rate or yes it' be 30% of your total obligation 30% of 208
30% of our whole number can be addressed by the administr But 208 market 208 is the low income rate. 208 is our foreground affordable
housing obligation. That means low very low moderate housing. So quick math based upon what you handed us. The town would have to come up with 819 units to
be able to come up with the 20% 19. Uh not necessarily. Number one, you immediately take out the two away. You immediately subtract 25%. You can achieve
25% of your number through total credit. So you take 25% out of the 208 and out of that remaining number and I plan to go into a lot of detail on it you have to keep some of your obligation through
group homes or uh those specialty housing in those cases mechanisms where just say you had you had specialty unit come in and had four or five bedrooms
get one credit per bedroom, not per unit under those scenarios. So, but those are exceptions. Those are those are absolutely and if you're still looking at it from that point, you're taking 25% off and you take 25% off the
800. This past town of Canor is then still looking upwards of 600 units that were supposed to be able to place in a town that has property and one of their designated areas. I believe
I should have a chance to correct that if I may before we get too close. This town is under obligation to build 800 units. Right. As I said, we're first of all, we're not proper vacant land
municipality. We do not we recognize that we don't have any state recognizes that we don't have vacant land. We're not a western western Jersey
acres of developable land for housing. So we fall under the threshold of what's called vacant land. So they recognize that what happens rate your number is broken down into two phases called RDP
real estate development potential that is a project that the redevelopment plan that's already been approved perfect example 256 street that falls into the category of basis development approved
by planning board yeah There's permit for permit for fully engineered developer so that the RDP all of our own fall into what's called unmet which recognizes that we don't
have land that we should resone. So we put an overlay on top of the existing zones that we have already today. those underlying property owners are not obligated to build housing. Our
burrow is not obligated to build housing. What it does is it provides an option that if you're in one of those three overlay areas, we could develop housing. After those ordinances are full
officially adopted come in and where are those density set by the state? They're set by my office through conversations. That's correct.
Cuz each of the sites have different. Yes, that's done. And the one site that you have on this, I believe about 20 years ago was designated for um senior houses. So if that's already
there on the book, that would be one way it can get developed. That's correct. And I'll go further that as we work through and further ed these draft ordinances, we want to put we've already put language in there that we don't want just should one of those corridors and
I'm only going to pick out the Michigan Avenue quarter just for starters, but you don't want should multif family or five in a row multi family. You don't want just multif family multif family multif family. So we require commercial
retail nonresidential on the first floor with apartments above it. So you don't apartment building apartment building after one after another. We haven't gotten that far yet because we haven't officially adopted those rules.
Understood. And Kevin, I understand, but we're getting presented with and I know he's explaining to us the exceptions and how you get from 208 to the 35, which is as he suggested the details in the
report that we haven't seen, but based upon the 208, the 208 is the 20% of 20% 208 would represent 20 Two weight is the two weight is our
number of the low income. But the low income is a percentage of the total. Yes. Low as a as a as an affordable housing project is developed. It will be developed in many different ways. The
most usual way is either through a 100% affordable housing project where every unit in that development is a low or moderate plus and they're very rare. They are rare or an inclusionary housing
project where there's a set aside as we have over on the redevelopment plan. That was a 15% set aside. We're increasing it to 20% set aside. Those are the two most common methods. A lot of towns use
group homes also for special needs housing. That's becoming such demand for it. And there are additional bonus credits providers that's becoming more and more popular. There's groups that specialize in that type of housing. But those are like those are the top two
100% affordable and inclusionary and then underneath that group homes and special needs housing. And we'll put those four in the top categories, but those numbers, the 35 or 208 represent percentages of projects.
The 208 is not a percentage. 208 is our fourth round constitutional obligation through 2035. 208 that's 208. That's our perspective. That's our housing. At time four I start
taking any percentages like reduction. Yes. If that 208 is the as Kevin said low, moderate or correct if the numbers are I don't want to get too granular tonight but the everything I'm talking about these numbers are really broken
down further into three subcategories. Yes, those three subcategories are moderate income, low income, and very low income. So, and then each one there's certain income thresholds for whether it's one family member all the
way up to eight family members as far as the maximum income of that family in that particular unit for that particular subset of income category very low low percentage as you said the 26 has 60%
so that number would be a percentage the overall the 208 or 35 depending under exceptions would actually end up getting a lot more units if they got developed. Oh yes. Yes. Absolutely. Yes. Understood. Mr.
Mr. I have a couple of questions with that going back and forth just starts to raise them all. So if you have 13 affordable units set aside on a particular property particularly national tour
did I understand correctly that um that is your 20% number and in that 20% number it is it could be affordable low income moderate income and very low
income within that 20% within the 13 variable So it could be that whole range. Is that correct? Yes, sir. It's required. Those those are all state regulations. We have no saying those whatsoever. But it's all the it's all
under the UAC regulations. Moderate, low, very low income of those 13 units. If I am a developer and I want to do something, is the percentage negotiable? Can I come in and say, "Listen, I could
do this, but I I I can only do 12%." No. Well, it's I strike strike that once those ordinances are adopted by our council, that's it. That's it. Now, do they come in here and ask you for a variance, a
waiver, or or go to the council and ask for a reduction? Uh, anything's possible. I don't see a justifiable reason because it's going to be on our folks who say that's how we're going to address it. So I would say the 20% is not going to move, but I do see
in some towns is a 20% increases. Okay. So So I would like to focus on um I guess it's called the pink area on 12th Street National Tool. If if I look at the entire map, um I don't have a real
problem with anything off let me choose my words wisely on the outskirts of town where the the 26th street and the market street in the industrial area that one national tool is 4.33 acres which
represents 15 units per acre. 60 plus units and that that's right dead center of town. Is there an adjustment that we could make to not have that particular
overlay zone there uh and have it in another location? I I would my my strong recommendation would be that the plan is adopted as it
is and then we have period of time over the summer. If you wanted to put switch out an area, a needed area and then put a different area that would provide at least the same amount of
units should it be developed. That would be an opportunity to do it then. is out by Route 22. I think I think I from what I just heard I think you're saying we need to it would be
prudent to adopt the plan as it sits so we could meet the criteria and at that point we have a couple of months I guess you said August 30th up to that point the major thresholds are September 1st the last day of August September 1st for
all the comments to come back I would love to see what comments if any we get from that list of groups that I mentioned and at the same time we have these draft coordinates together only draft but we have to make them official
and that would be an opportunity I think it's saving money time and resources that we have like our report how did we do what's the comments we take those comments and then we also look we could all right let's remove this site add a
different site I was all at one time of death. Okay. Mr. Gormaldi, you had something. I was just going to point uh the section that you pointed out again was the one that I believe this board approved as senior housing about 20 25
years ago. Not this board, but the plan. Well, not the members of this board. Okay. So, we could look into that. But I I I think uh you know my my question was a valid question and the answer was spot on. We
could if we need to do something and we have to meet it. It's it's not him saying hey this is a great idea. This is what we're being told and more or less I again this plan is I want to interpret this one more thing. I know we're under this deadline self deadline. These plans
are not etched in stone and that's it. that can't change for 10 years. Mhm. These plans are are expected to be amended, changed, expanded, modified, if you will. Other properties are better suited. You're allowed to
amend your plan. The only thing I'll come back and tell you is this is the threshold. All right? We have a better site that's more suited for a restricted housing in our town rather than this one. We can make an argument to remove it, but we need to replace it, fold it
back into the plane. Okay. Kevin, did you have something? I saw you shaking your head this way and then this way, and I didn't know if you were Simon says, do this. Mr. Chairman, uh, Mr. Strata has done a wonderful job of summarizing
a document that has to be adopted uh before the 30th of June which is next month. So therefore there's not a lot of options available to this board at this moment other than to present a housing element to the state that's been
endorsed by the burough council. However, as Mr. Mr. Red has also pointed out there are a number of things that are in draft that can be changed in the near future.
I would point out this board is no doubt aware that this board has not been consulted about this plan uh since it was started by the council in December. This plan was prepared without any input
from this board. No doubt the board is aware that we've already approved one affordable housing unit on the boulevard at the Dunkin Donuts. No doubt this board is aware that over the last 10 years we have been trying
and in our resolutions demanding the collection of affordable housing funds. And as we have learned over the last year or two, some of those were ignored, but we nonetheless have over $80,000
in the bank thanks to the diligence of this board. And perhaps over the next few months, the burough council who is in charge of this and our mayor will see fit to let the planning board be part of this planning of this document so that
your voices can be heard and guide this as only you can because you're the experts in land use. You know this burrow. You know the es and flows of applications. Thank you chair. You're welcome. Thank
you for that. Mr. Mr. Question 531 plus cumulative units from including the previous Very good question. You're each each round of affordable by housing
get two numbers. You get a present which is your rehab obligation. that rehab obligation goes to zero at the end of each round when you're assigned a new number. That's one. The prospective fee, which is I I commonly refer to it as new
construction, that's what everyone really paying attention to. That's 208. That's our 208 for this round. With your perspective numbers, perspective need numbers. They do not zero out and begin
to keep playing for the end of a cycle running around cumulative. They just keep adding on top of each other and 10 years from now despite having no land you're going to get another number and that's going to just
how No, it's okay. How firm is this deadline? Can we get an extension on this deadline? July. I mean, the council hasn't even seen this plan. We don't even have a meeting until July. I mean, I don't know.
The first time I'm seeing this is tonight and hearing anything, right? So, I mean, I don't see how it could even happen by July 1st. We don't even have a meeting till July 3rd. I defer to I have to defer to our
federal housing attorney um on the deadlines because they all been doing part of this process. I don't see how it's possible. I mean, I'm looking at this for the first time tonight. It's um June 24th. Our next meeting is
July 3rd. July 2nd. Sorry. Just ask what are the penalties you don't get any time. I don't want to start speaking as an attorney. Um, one thing is you lose any
immunity that you have the immunity protection compliance which is pretty significant. But I want to stop there and I'll defer to your four attorneys on that subject. Mr. Grammaldi, you said that um
Kathy or the uh clerk, they have copy of the full report. Yes. As do you. One was sent by Miss Machine last week. Yes. Everybody Everybody did get this last week. Okay. Everybody got it. This is
not We're for a better term choice of words. We're not blindsided here. We got this report. But we did get it Monday. Yeah. I think it was sent out on the 13th. No, I'm sorry. This or the full 300 plus page full report. Okay. Mr.
Mreda, as a courtesy to this board, sent out his outline to us this afternoon so you would see what his presentation was. I applaud him for his cooperation. Yeah. So, um, did the does the governing
body get this as well? You have to say that it has to go to the governing body. That's what I'm saying. We only have we have a meeting until July 2nd. That's up to Mr. I'm sorry. It's nothing to do with this board. It's up to Mr. Serian. It's his problem. It's a planning board
document. This is the housing element of master. It's a planning board document that's approved by the planning board by resolution. The law says that needs to be endorsed
by by council. Okay. And whether or not whether or not if the planning board approves the plan adopts the resolution and the council doesn't adopt the endorsing resolution until
July 1st or any date past June 30th. I'm not touching that question. That's a legal question and I don't want to I'm not sure of that answer. Okay. Does everybody you guys understand us? Everybody understand what we're confronted with? Mayor Chris, mayor of
the council, this is the first time you guys are understanding this that this is existing. You had a vote for this by the end of the month. Yeah, we don't have a meeting until the 2nd of July. Our next meeting
should just do our obligation, right? I think I think the planning board has to stand on its own feet and do what the planning board does. If the packet is before us now and we saw this, which I read
through, not all 361, but I did read through. Uh I I'm thinking that everyone else did the same. I can't speak for the governing body. We can only speak for the planning board as we said that uh a
million times. What's in front of us is the diligence that we have to perform um to meet a criteria. So, uh, I I think that's where we need to stand. If the deadline is first before the council meeting, we
can't control that. If they fe deem it fit to have a special or if they deem it fit that the attorney says, "No, we have that 7 days grace because the days fell like this or there was technical issues, that can't be our problem." Did I miss where does it say that the
council has to adopt the endorsing resolution by July 1st in the amended fair housing act? Okay. So it's not on this timeline anymore goes back to last year's uh legislation March. Yeah. Which
it seems very unreasonable if we have till the 30th to adopt what we need to adopt. That gives them they don't they have to see that we've adopted before they can start and basically they have 24 hours to do
it. Everybody's had these dates since March of 24. The fact that we are being presented with this document on this date is not our choosing. It is someone else's choice. Our obligation is to adopt a
housing element by June 30th if we wish to be in conformance with the state legislation. If we choose otherwise, we can. Of course, that's up to you. Yeah. I mean, I'm not suggesting any of that. I'm just saying that in most cases, things tend
to get done toward the end of timelines, not just in count everywhere. And so the fact that the state would allow 24 hours to for the board assuming the board does it any board does it on the last day June 30th and then the endorsing document has to
be done the very next day is completely ridiculous but that's just a commentary on our legislators. Can I hear from councilman Greece? Um there was a court case invalidating for housing profession.
I'm sorry I I couldn't hear him. There's a recent case. Can you talk a little louder? I'm sorry. Yeah, we're having trouble. I think the mic don't work. I don't know if that one worked. Doesn't sound just there. There was a
recent case. I believe this is what you're referring to about a year or two ago. This that was circulated yet invalidating the directive. The directive that boards were being municipalities were being
held to was not only did you have to adopt this housing plan before June 30th, but municipalities also had to adopt the governing bodies had to fully adopt every ordinance and redevelopment
study and redevelopment plan that created a zoning mechanism for affordable housing and identified within the plan. So you added all your important zoning, the ordinances, redevelopment studies, redevelopment plans fully approved and attached as an
appendix to the plan that you have tonight. What this law said and everybody challenged that because there were the amended fair housing act does not say that. Then a directive came out afterwards that said you had to do that.
So there's a conflict in rules and the law involved the directive in the law that went to court and they issued a legis decision saying that that's not accurate. You only have municipalities only have to adopt it the plan itself
prior to June 30th and then the deadlines that are in the fair housing act that extend out to March 2026 remain in place for adopting all the ordinances and everything else. Okay.
question. If um something to the builder, they decide to do senior housing, you can't say, "Hey, well, if you're going to build, we want senior housing." We're allowed as a municipality, we have our obligations. We're allowed as a municipality to say, "This is where we want our age
restricted housing and this is where we want our market rate housing." So, we we can differentiate. We can't use senior housing to all of our obligations.
I'm 30% of that. Excuse me. Okay. Um, anyone else? Oh, sorry. 300 pages. Can I say our location? Yes or no? Let's move on.
Thank you, Mr. Lady. Mr. I I would agree. We're um as Kevin said, this is not overdoing, but we're we're in this position. I think we're charged with doing what we have to do. But for our conversation before this meeting
started, um I think we're definitely going to need to have some type of meeting so that we can discuss this before the September 1st obligation if we want to make any kind of recommendations. What? Wait a minute. What do you mean we need to have a
meeting before when the I'm sorry um Mr. Mr. Mr. administrator said that the next time that we have to we have the opportunity to get any recommendations the mayor I suggested something about uh
North Michigan which I think from our master planning we already had mentioned something of those areas but if we want to make any of those comments we have to get it probably to him well before September 1st so he can organize it and
put it in before the September 1st deadline if we have a meeting before then. How are we going to do that? Mr. O'Brien, it may be best, chairman, to let the process run its course at the
council level and let's hope and pray that they inform us of how the ordinances will be drafted and hope and pray that they include us in that discussion. And then we have to wait for them. If we're included, wonderful. If
we're not included, we have to wait for them to present them to us and at that point we can have our say in what they are. So am I understanding correctly that this map that you drew we can make
changes to this? Yes. By September 1st. I would my opinion would to wait till after September 1st so we don't spend any we just I would wait and see what type of response that we get so that if
I do a report and I know it's going to be judged and critiqued by I'm making this up five groups could be one it could be more I would like to see what those critiques are those comments are and then I'd also have more feedback from the planning board and then my
recommendation This will be post September 1st after Labor Day, reconvene with everybody's comments and amend it one time. To summarize, you you would say go through the process. Let's get
this done. We we we meet the compliance and we understand where we're going from there and we still have enough of time to to reconvene. So, you don't need a a meeting before September. I do not need a meeting before September for this topic. Okay, I got a lot of hands. Mr.
Pantina, good. Mr. Pantina, I just want to say that I agree with what other members said and I think we should, you know, vote on it. Um, but I have to ask you something because
responses are referring to the fair housing council and I say but I'm just saying is that what do you think over him but how active do you think that he would be if he
I have to ask you to speak up we can't hear council. I I I think it would be I think it would be a lot. I think he would be yelling about Okay. So, so in my other I've heard the spiel already and I've heard Mr. Sereni when he
mentioned Mr. Serenity he's the council for city living also and he very adamant about June 30th about getting that that plan in whether it's got to be adjusted or not about getting that plan in. And I'm not saying that we have to do that.
I'm just saying is that knowing Mr. Rain who is that guy um and getting those numbers in. And I believe uh Mr. require the Senate is that um it's not
necessarily about fines or penalties, but if you miss the June 30th deadline, the municipality becomes open to lawsuits. Right? Now, you're kind of protected, right? You you lose your immunity, right? You lose your
immunity, right? You're non-compliant town and you're open for whatever comes your way, right? That's just I just wanted to put that on the table. So I got it not as just make it available knowledge that did you want to coail or
were we all saying the same thing? I just want to ask you one thing. You said, you know, it may be looked at by one or five groups in your mind. Who are those people that are looking at this? Number one, there's the court. There's a judge assigned to
the judge assigned to region, our region, and he's already reviewed our court. He's already issued a court order March 27th, 2025. So we have the amended fair housing act put in it abolished
color removed color is gone council on afford of housing is gone it replaced co with what's called the program I did not make up these the program consists of seven retired
mal judges the only thing they do is mal for the last 50 years I'm not saying we're we are assigned to one of those seven retired Mount Royal judges who this plan goes to on June 30th. That
Mountal judge is one. Number two, the Mount Royal judge assigns work is assigned what's called a special adjudicator. Used to be called special master. Fourth round they changed it. They got a master. They include adjudicator. That person is a licensed
professional planner who does nothing but affordable housing in New Jersey. This report goes to that plan. That's two. Number three is I'm not saying they will or they won't, but Fairf Share Housing Center is one of the groups that
has an opportunity. Their planners and their staff will review this plan most likely. Great. Number four, almost all the other municipalities not Can award were challenged in January on
the numbers by the New Jersey Builders Association. That's four. Five, six, and above would be any interested party who has a property who wants to be part of this plan or objects to the plan or hates the plan or
critique I don't know the plan. So those are five and it can be more. You're in a lot stronger position if the plan is adopted and meet the deadline. I would not at least my recommendation is to
adopt the plan. See what transpires over July and August. Reconvene post Labor Day. Get all the reports, critiques, comments, criticisms. add the board's comments, council's
comments, and put them all on the file, and then we sit down with the plan and figure out next steps. I can tell you that the next major step after that, if it's challenged, is December 31st. If there's a challenge, we have to the council's going to have to address that.
So, we have 6 months, not 6 months, you have September through December 31st. Okay? But when those come back, we shall have time to answer we or the governing body whether they let us in or not. I have a question. Was anyone on the
governing body these films that you picked? Was this discussed with anyone on the governing body? Yes, there was there were two at least two Zoom meetings that I was on. Uh I don't have the list of attendees with me but the one governing
I don't I mean I on that chairman with all due respect that's not a board issue right I can give you all I can I can give you the proof that we're on that was on these meetings the mayor's the mayor and she
certainly is going to assert her authority but this is not the spot for her okay um if there's no more questions. Um, as far as procedure is concerned, because this is the first time I've had the pleasure of doing one
of these, does this at all need to be open to the public? It does. Are you through, Mr. M? Okay. Um, would someone will be available for questions if there are correct someone? Yes. I make a
motion to open the meeting to the public for comment on this matter. Okay. Motion made by Mr. David, second by Mr. Um, who Clemente? All in favor? I. Okay. Is anyone from
the public wishing to speak about this presentation and this uh fair share of presentation? No one. Seeing none, make a motion to close um this matter to the public. Yeah. Motion made by Mr. David,
second by Mr. Grimmaldi. All in favor? Okay. All right. Uh right now uh we heard everything. I it it sounded to me like most of us uh understood this and we have to do our diligence. So is there a motion to what is this? Approve the
resolution or approve what are we approving here tonight? The resolution is prepared for the fourth round housing element June 2025. Exactly what he said made by Mr. Baldi seconded by Mr.
Pantina. Roll call, please. Um, Mr. Perno, yes. Mayor Carlo, no. Uh, Councilman Scarice. So, we'll vote on it tonight. Resolution. The resolution. So, this resolution, just
for an explanation, adopts the plan. Adopts the plan and then it goes to the governing body and then you do what it what you will. Adopts the housing amendment as a document of the planning board. Um, public statement.
Mr. David, yes. Mr. Clementi, yes. Mr. Pantina, yes. Mr. Mazio, yes. Mr. Dowy, yes. Mr. Kella, yes. Mr. Grimaldi, yes. And Mr. McGlacy, yes. Okay.
So, here we go. Your presentation was wonderful. My question mark was actually Mr. M. Tread is an outstanding job under typical situations and conditions and I
think he is to be employed. Yeah, very much so. Boy, could we have used a slideshow or something like that would have been so much easier. This is Thank you very much. Thank you. Have a good night. Difficult job displaying where business
is. Okay. Next. What are we up to? The application. New business. Is that right? Yeah. The front desk. We're putting off to the application. Oh, we're not doing Dor. We're not doing Durham. Okay. So, um, that's the Durham
resolution, isn't it? Yeah. Okay. So, um, Mr. David, earlier we talked about the Durham resolution and we are not going to do that tonight. We're going to wait until the September meeting. Correct. It's all the way on the bottom.
I missed it, too. Yeah. Yeah. Okay. So, in our workshop, we talked a little bit about this. So, is there a motion to move the Durham resolution to the September meeting? Motion made by Mr. um Grimmaldi, seconded by Mr. Pley. All in favor?
Okay, that's out of the way. New business. We have application 2408 front fencing 25205 North 17th Street. Who's here for that? Kathy Wheel. Okay.
I'm sorry. We're always open. We don't plan anything progress in July. We have nothing except a resolution. So that resolution can hold until September. Okay. Sir, why don't you identify yourself? Tell us who you are.
Vice Chair, does he have to state his name? Excuse me, sir. Wait, if I may. Yeah. What you need to do is state your name and spell your last name for the record and then we can continue. Okay. The microphone doesn't work. So,
we're going to have Yeah, you're going to have to project. New school teacher. My name is Rodriguez. It is R O E R I G U E Z I
H A R R I S O S Harrison. Okay. Sorry. Harrison. No. Rodriguez. Is your first name Harrison? No.
Okay. Rodriguez Harrison. Thank you. Okay. I'm sorry. Okay. Sure. Let me swear you in first. You could raise your right hand. With regard to this application, do you swear the testimony you're about to give somebody the truth? Thank you. And I'm assuming
you're the applicant and you're the owner of the property. Yes. Okay. Okay. Christian. Okay. Guys, raise your right hand with regard to this and any other applications this evening. Do you remember the testimony you're about to
give? Show me the truth. I never do. You did this. That's the second time you dropped your wallet. Thank God you got your I'm sorry we keep interrupting you.
Okay. You have the floor. Question. Yes, sir. [Music] These lights these lights. Yeah. [Music] Wow, air condition so much better now.
Yeah, cool. Oh, it's okay. It's okay. Thank you, Kevin. Good evening everyone. My name is Clinton Rodriguez Harrison. I stand before you representing myself and my wife to request a variance for our front yard
fence of our home located at 205 North 17th Street. Picture of the home. Thank you. Thanks. We are first time home owners who purchased our home in good faith who relied heavily on the builder's guidance
and we discussed adding a fence. When we reached out to the builder, we were told it would be fine to add a front fence and no one was remain aware of ordinance prohibiting front yard fences or that a permit was needed. We were generally surprised to receive it was a violation. We never had any intent to violate
federal regulations. The new homeowners navigate complex systems reacted in good faith with no balance. This fence is not just about aesthetics. My wife Miguel is a 100% permanently and totally disabled Air Force veteran for 17 years. She has served three overseas
wars and return from each with deep psychological wounds. She lives with PTSD and having vigilance and social environments. Physical barrier like offense especially in her front yard when people pass frequently brings her peace and a sense of security. It is a medical and
emotional necessity not just a preference. have some pass. Sure. For these copies we keep, do you have enough, Quinton? Thank you. you see showing her
showing her understand PTSD disability. Uh in addition we have a letter from her therapist that was talking about how this situation has been a large
home. Uh in addition, we have a letter signed from neighbor directly next to us street uh in which there are there's no issues with neighbors with us. Um and I believe the other page is
a picture of the property. I'm going to mark first letter A1 the medical Thank you. I'll mark I'll mark 81. Um compares to the neighboring fence support you can
put in the file, but the law unless the neighbor is here, the law doesn't allow us to consider this for or um letters of support or in opposition. or um
uh things like that because they're not here to say yes or no or answer questions. But we can certainly keep the letter, keep the picture marked at A2 and then A1 will be the uh the uh veterans affairs letter and the letter
from the counseling service. Okay. A newborn. Okay. Mr. Please send these electronically to any machine tomorrow.
Beyond that, we've been working with schools where traffic is fast and unpredictable for recycling days. Not uncommon for grade. There are stray cats. We see people other residents along without picking it up. Defense office maintain privacy and security.
Additionally, we understand the legislative intent behind ordinance with beautififications likely to the best of proliferation of the laped or unlikely chain link fences. We believe our well-maintained classic white pitted fence actually enhances the neighborhood's appearance. Owning a home with white pated fence is a part of the
American dream. It represents care, stability, and pride of property. Our fence is not an eyesore. It is almost by definition a suitable the aesthetic ideals this morning was created to protect. We are willing to modify defense's placement as it is extended a bit too far for our liking and hope to
help satisfy the board's concerns. We are asking for a reasonable accommodation. The Fair Housing Act prohibits discrimination based on disability and encourages municipalities to provide necessary accommodations to allow individuals with disabilities use and enjoyment of their properties. In
this case, defense is an essential part of making our home safe and livable for. We also note that in the previous case, application number 01-030 from December 20th, 2001, the board granted a similar front yard fence variance for homeowner in town. That
application involved a decent look of the neighborhood, particularly in comparison to less attractive fencing. Like that advocate, we grieve our fence as charm is character of our street and presents no detriment to public good. We are willing as they were to adjust placement or height is needed
to remain in alignment with the rural vision. We hope the board can weigh not only the technical aspects of this but also the human ones. Our family did not attempt the size of the law. We simply follow guidance and perhaps we complete. We are willing to adjust and we
respectfully ask for the opportunity to retain events as important. Thank you for your time and consideration. Is that all the slides you have? Uh unless I need to No, no, no. I I didn't know if that was you're done with that
part of your presentation. Yes. Any questions? Okay. Well, we see the fence, we see the house, and we know where you're here. Okay. Okay. Does any board members have any questions? Have questions?
Okay. Again, we have to speak up, guys. Okay. Um, I understand that there's no front yard or just not allowed in the front yard.
So in this case it would be the whole front of the house for the most part. Right. In this in this case it would be the whole front of the house for the most part. Right. The area that's being tested in Yeah. of the grass area. Yes.
That's it. Mr. Gormaldi. the way the fence is situated at the moment. Am you way? I didn't know that. I've seen it. Okay. The way the fence is situated today is I I would assume based
upon the sketch in the picture, it's on Township property. Yeah. It's too far. And when I went by the house, there's no fence at the bottom of the steps. Uh there's no fence protecting
access to the front of the steps. Correct. No, the fence on the side. If someone walks up your driveway, they can walk unimpeded from the driveway to your front door unimpeded by the fence. Is it
That's not I'm sure the police and fires would look like too, but right now it's not impeding anybody getting to your front. No, we know the culture. Mr. Mazio, did you buy contractor? So
mortar, we talked to our builder um the builder currently who's putting up 2011 right next to us and we said hey we're going to walk our fence at some point just security
and he told us it was when we let him go and his team will take care of it. So when we were ready, we let him know and took care of it. Um, guys, for this one, the most guidance I got was how much it was going to be. And
when the gentleman was doing it, it was two people. He told me he was just going to send a little more little from the tree so that I don't get trouble. And I was just like, "Okay, whatever that means, cool." But um, yeah, there was no permanent sign. There was no whatever
they did, they didn't go to the proper Who's the builder, Mr. Harrison? Who is the builder? When When you say your builder, did can we kill that light now? Are you done? Oh, yes. How do I look in blue? Very nice. Thank you. When you say the
builder, did he build you that house as well? You don't propert. So, here's a gentleman who's a builder, has an LLC, and he didn't know enough to come up here to pull a permit. Okay. So, first, let me start out, you know, I started out with that and I should have
said, um, I appreciate and thank you for coming up here tonight and your wife. Thank you for her service and, uh, the disability I understand quite well and and we get that. The the problem here is
is that you have offense that need to permit. There's proper setbacks that need to be taken and we need to look at that. Now, you also recited the American Disabilities Act, which also states, if you read further, that you need to
comply with the rules and regulations of the burrow and the state and the town. So with that being said, we have to figure out how you as a resident of Kennallorth can be here comfortable and your wife can have a comfortable place to stay. Correct? Yes. And that's what's
in front of the board tonight. So I need some help. You want me to ask planning questions? Yes. Mr. Paris, did you also serve? No. Would it be your opinion
[Music] that this application could advance various purposes of municipal land use law such as accommodating residential uses, accommodating uh disabled populations,
veteran populations along those lines? would be your opinion as to whether or not this application has any impact upon your names, you know, positive or negative.
I feel like it doesn't. That's why we have different marketing letter which doesn't get us too appear closer to today's wrote the letter and I said hey this this is not an issue to
you then appreciate you send letter support if it is an issue then please listen um doesn't have any issues. Um my neighbors export 207 wonderful people that didn't have any
issues they closing there. She didn't believe that we're going through this in the first place. We got some great support from the neighborhood in terms of dealing with the fence and it just feels like it was something we never thought of. Of
course, new home orders and didn't think they were fences construction. So, I started reading all the ordinances and whatnot. So it's just it's a tough place because if someone not let's say I didn't even know about this still but I talked to my builder
they gave me a team that said you want to do this right they brought the permit they brought the papers to you to say hey we can't proceed without doing XYZ then that but that didn't happen so I'm doing it reverse where the defense has been there for you I think about 9
months now um We haven't had any issues. We haven't had cars crashing because of low visibility. Um it's just it's been taken care of. It's so like right now it's just I'm working backwards because they have control over getting this set up properly or something.
So I feel like it doesn't affect our neighbors like I said and just feel. Do you see any detriment to the neighbors or the neighborhood? I don't see any. Do you see any advantages?
Any advantages? Advantages for uh the neighborhood or for us? Both. Uh for us, I can say number one, just when they were just going messy, windy days that was recycling where the fence block people's cardboard is flying down from
across the island just uh when it comes down to um benefits for the community. I feel like increasing the property values um feel like that's a strong feel both way
off each other help that maintains thatification standard that was folks where we want to have visuals we want fresh system so in an attempt to surprise the
testimony and not put any words on anybody's mouth to any sides. My understanding is that you're saying is that because of your wife's service related disability that this fence
according to her veterans administrative administration counselor is something that is medically necessary and currently it's not just counselor She is diagnosed with pepper vigilance
PTSD. She can't not scan social situations. Restaurant knows it is sitting in a location where she can see the entire area of the restaurant and always dating her. I have no idea how that mindset was. that I learned going with her how
real is this and how it's a it's a constant um buzz into prior she was having events especially the school there people going by it's just kids and people just things are moving but it's just a sense of she come by what's going here
what she's doing come back it was just it just she was never able to settle and living with her and with two kids now and with her dog it keeps her focus on things that matter and not to be distracted about
this. Should the board wish to treat this in a favorable fashion, uh would you be willing to submit proper application and if necessary adjust the fence so that it is in the proper location? Yeah, definitely. Uh I we
would definitely want to do it as if we were doing this from scratch. We want to make sure everything correctly performs completely fine with it. Have I said anything contrary to your intent?
Have I said anything in terms of an opinion other than putting facts on the table, chairman? Well, thank you. Um, does anybody want to ask any questions or add to that? Yeah. Mr. Pantina first. A couple
questions. I'm sorry. Just speak up, please. Don't ask. I um I also think I'm sorry I have to ask this question, but this question I asked a question about the court. Um
most you said your wife um um for quality of life purposes enjoyed the security of the front yard being fenced off. Although I think Mr.
Yes, it's very good question. Um um I think a lot of people feel secure being um in the yard away from chaos outside. Um in which case attacking
defense won't have a problem. Um does she have does she have any solace there? I'm just asking the question. Not so precise. You're saying they saw us in the yard in the rear yard is permitted. Yes. In the front yard
where? Yeah. Um the rear yard was was never home. Um the front yard is where we have that. First of all, we have better length and we have just more space going
back and forth. Um, with the backyard, it definitely gives her exercise there. With the front yard, we have her porch, we have her chairs, she has her windsh, she can sit down, she can do work, she can relax, she can see what's going on,
and there's nothing that's just like I I understand everything. I I really um what you're proposing or what you're asking for. Um and it's right on the application not
for the personal margin um where it could be u verifier could be um decided by the way to do that but I'm just saying is that um and everything that Mr. Brian asked you was very good.
Um but the one uh sh that I see here I'm just putting on the table is that um this request on personal hardship however uh and even though your neighbors are supportive of it
um the potential of it is that it sets a precedent. So what about the other house that Mr. and told the other houses that I want a fence out front and it's got a I don't know justified reason for it the
word will be at that point in time to say for the applicant well we put one in sorry I'm just saying and which then um may go
against the uh one's future goals of of the master and another thing. So, I just wanted to put that out there. I mean, it's nothing against you or your family or yourself quality of life. It's just
that um tax understand that there hasn't been president for veterans with disabilities in terms of them having the state of New Jersey despite local ordinances. um they work with the local
municipalities to make sure there is precedent for that. So I feel like it would be unfair to compare this situation to say well how about the person next to you? How about the person next to you when the person next to us didn't serve 17 years in the military
doesn't have three tours doesn't have 100% diagnosis. So you feel like that for the board to bring exception for those have exceptional people is not a heavy burden as there are far between. Um I understand where you're coming from
but I feel like this is a doable um with you because it's not something myself. I am not going to be able to see this
with people of my sort amongst military members I meet or scattered about the country then I can see exceptions and I appreciate your comment and I think because I possibly my question
and your response to that is again more information I want to um I know I'm very familiar with street. Um just so if anyone on the board isn't, this is a really busy street when the
kids get out of school. Um it's parked up on both sides. I have many times parked on this street picking up my daughters and my children um throughout the years. And there's no sidewalks on
this street. So the kids do run of course and people walk on the property as they have no other choice but they're not going to walk the street and I just am thinking that could possibly create distress for this person
that was there cuz I know how busy the street is at 2:45 to probably 3:15. Can you hear me? I can. Does everybody hear me? everyone saying. So, I just think maybe that's a consideration that
everyone should know. Um that there's a lot of people people are parked on the street. They're walking on the properties to get in and out of the cars. Um people are loading their kids in obviously not on the street or
traffic side of the street. So it could possibly cause I could see how that can cause distress to someone that it has is fearful of you know I don't know I don't I don't want to say the wrong thing but that has
you know phobias about people and what's going on there's no that side of the street and there's a sidewalk on the other side so I don't I don't believe people going to walk in the street well they Don't walk on the street. That's my point. They're walking on the
property, not Mr. O'Brien. Mr. Pentina's question speaks to precedence for the board's decision making process. Every application
stands or falls on the individual merits, the individual specifics of each application. And each application has to meet the burden of proof individually. And just because a
property has a thing, addition, fence, third floor does not mean that every property is entitled to that unless they meet the burden approved and show you that they are specific conditions and
that specific property that would allow you to consider that. And that's your decision. No one else's. Okay. Um any any other park? So there's no parking. There's no parking on that side of the street. So all the curbs are yellow on
that side. Yes. No park. That's been that way for years. No parking on the side. Can we Yes, sir. Respond to Oh, you could respond. Uh so what you mentioned about the no parking there's no parking on the
corners. So my neighbor's house 2011 offic I think it's 203 that's also yellow off um block like the mayor mentioned uh from 2:45 on everyone's park even though
there's no park I see people pull up on pull up on the property wait for their kids wait until like maybe like 20 minutes car they deliver something to us just waiting their house was on then the kid comes know that there's a lot of repairs, a lot of money. It's just it's
kind of a pas that all the time, but you're you're right. It's not there's not supposed to be cars there to that capacity. There was kind of my neighbor was trying to leave her driveway and she was boxed in by everybody who was put and they're yelling at her when she was
trying to was trying to leave. So, it's a very busy area during the school year, which is 10 months out of here. Excuse me. I'm sorry, Chris. Okay. What what I have to ask is
everybody please just don't blurt out because then we can't hear it. We have this recorded if if you need to say something, let me address you so you could we could open you up. Okay. Chris, uh you mentioned you're you would be okay with relocating the fence front
yard out of the runway. Um that based on the survey, it's 7 ft. Would you be Yes. Now when we saw the survey first was really important. So yes, whatever it takes to be in place or
what was that Christian? 7 ft. 7 ft from the curb line. Uh no from from the rideway to where the edge of the fence is is 7 about approximately 7 ft from the rideway like towards the curb. So it's within the municipal right now. How
far? Can you pull that up again? Yes, Mr. Ki. Backyard is there's an engine fence on the left side and we have a um it's actually white fence in the back and on
the right side. So I decided to look really That was Yeah, forget it. We going to You can pull that up for me.
Let's just get that Um so you can see in the the left side there's a chain fence which goes all the way back. Um the back of the property is fenced as is the right side. So it's kind of so it's just everything the back
and the right side just Chris to your point is it this here piece would come back 7 ft. Yes. Yes. So these sections of fence are what? Five feet. Six feet. Right. So that leaves you with a six
that leaves you with a six foot space in the front of that house. If that section you have another angle, right? Oh, go. Yeah. Go to that one. This is pretty fence. No, no, you got I thought you had another.
So there's three panels up there. So one panel is now six. Oh, you have the survey. So if you got Go ahead. Tell me what's left. Please tell us what's left from the front porch in that one space area. If they bring it
back, if they bring the fence to the rightway, it will be 25 ft from the rideway to the front porch to the front porch. How could that be? It doesn't look like it does. I mean that's why it's it's a it's a different angle but right now
it's right now guys that 30 goes 32 ft towards the curve. Okay. Is there any other questions so far? We can come back to what are we on the rightway or does it still have to be a certain amount of
other side? Yeah the right way. Yeah. Okay. So, okay. I'll answer the question. That's all. Okay. Yes. Uh, Mr. Medical,
Mr. I was going to I was going you um your last several questions that again were hitting the point that I wanted to hit. I have to draft a resolution said I'm done and I want to make sure this was distinguished from anyone else who comes in and says I don't want people
walking from my house. Okay. Your letter from or your wife's letter from the VA talked about Yeah. to um totally and permanently disabled. Thank you. Doing due solely to your service connected disabilities.
The letter from the vet from the vet center said that your wife's experiencing significant psychological distress due to a front yard fence dispute with her local town in need.
Can you link those up for me so I can cuz someone reading I can say, "Well, she has military issues. What's with the feds?" And I get it, you know, and but I want I need to put a little bit more meat on this bone. Um, from your wife's
military experience, if she's sitting in the front of the house, where does the stress and fear come in of the mailman walking up the front front steps or I would say is more so the lack of
control, right? So, it's when there's no fence, you just have my openness. Okay. anyone and that was was she experienced in that in the military is that why she I can't take her specifics when she's been overseas she's been in combat overseas three times so I can only
imagine what I don't know but it makes her feel she needs to know is hyper hyper vigilance so she needs to know what is happening around her brain so the fence helps her by pretty much
funneling everything to location. Like I mentioned, one of the restaurants was something where she was always making sure she stop the entrance. Could she could she come here if she had to or no? She couldn't find out because we have a mother. Okay, let's assume
there was a babysitter. Would she be comfortable coming here and telling us what you're telling us? You think that she would? Um, but that's one reason why those out there from Mississippi. This is the level the level of how this process made her even more stressful. Um
it's not that the fence is needed just because of that letter. That letter is saying that everything the last 9 months just the fact that she's someone in the town decided to help out this fence was over why people would feel they have to get in someone else's life and she's
very unhappy and so much of her personal life has to come up for this. for the sake of having to have her improve. But but you can say she's definitely improved. She's she's better.
Okay. I'm think I'm going to step in. Uh we we we've got that the whole correlation. We understand what's going on. We could come back to the board members after we open this up to the public. Does anyone have anything to say right now? Question for Go ahead.
just asking and maybe it's just the title your letter is referencing a survey survey by there there are two surveys um one of them uh I believe the original application and then there's a more
revised one that shows the actual that's why there's a disc okay no problem thank you um are you um Mr. Tarrison, pretty much done with your testimony for now. Okay. All right. What we're going to do is
we're going to have to open this up to the public and then we could come back and and make some questions and decisions. All right. Motion to open the hearing to the public. Motion made by Mr. David, second by Mayor Carlo. All in favor? I. Anyone from the public wishing
to speak on this matter? Seeing none, make a motion to close the hearing to the public. Closed by Mr. David, second by Mayor Carloich. All in favor? I Okay, here's what's in front of us. We have a a builder that decided to
tell this guy this gentleman, I'm sorry, tell this gentleman that it's okay to put a fence wherever he wants. And we know that that builder knew better to do what he had to do. We also have letters here that's telling us that there's a necessity that his wife needs this and
and all her service and her disabilities. But we also have ordinances that we need to abide by. So what's in front of you is you have to make a decision. We have to make a decision whether we abide by the
ordinance and or make some type of sacrifice here. So I it's open for discussion. I can't make this decision. I have to hear from you folks. I guess a decision that we're up
against. We had we've had in the past um similar applications whether it was fence where cops where it was the um uh I didn't know and I guess what we're being asked here is saying I didn't know
but I asking us to take into consideration the fact that there is a hardship. Um and basically that's that's you know is this hardship enough for us to to to fly past our you know our current importance. So um
I have a tough time voting against u the uh someone who serve but at the same time I'm still I still have an issue with president. I understand the idea of president just what's going to prevent the next person
from coming come in here and say oh I didn't know I needed so it's not an easy decision just this is our our session and we'll give you an opportunity okay um anyone else I just got so you got these issues
before you bought the house right so you want a new school so I understand the need for I'm just trying to figure this Okay. And you said you had a dog also. Is that the front yard also? Okay. Cuz I grew up in an area where
everybody had their fences right on the property mine. When I was walking home from school, these big shepherds and stuff would always be scared walking home and I know we have a lot of kids and I just I also do that for a living. I have lost for that. So, uh I'm just a little nervous about
the kids walking by. to be very surprised. So I know but everybody says we're going to administer but thank you. Okay. Anyone else?
Okay. So there's two things. It's either approve or deny or talk about the fence being on the uh property line or the rightway behind the rightway.
Gentlemen, I can't do this myself. So, we have to have somebody speak up and tell me that the fence obviously has to comply with um being right before the right way. So, it should not be on our property. The problem here, mayor, is that it
doesn't comply to the ordinance even if we put it back to the property line. So that's our that's the hard vote on and that's that's the hard part because it's it's asking for forgiveness which I don't believe Mr. Harrison knew what was
going on but I do believe that contractor knew exactly what he was doing. Looking at it from the master plan standpoint we've had this board has had discussions in reference to this subject for years. Um,
I asked the one question in reference to if the fence provided any type of inhibiting public to the access to the stairs, to the house, to the res. And the answer was that the fence, you could
walk up the driveway, walk on the sidewalk, walk right up the steps if not inhibiting the public of entering their personal space. I I think if there was an accommodation to be made,
maybe we bring it back to the bottom of, you know, some space in front of the bottom of the stairs that's gated in so that they can contain themselves and and I'm might not be using the right words, but they would envelop their
space and have controlled access, which I'm assuming would meet the requirements of this disability, but that could be just in front of the
stair, let's say 5 ft front of the porch so that they walk down the porch, walk onto it from driving by. It appears that you could walk from that front yard into the backyard without, you know, in the
fence area, you go into the backyard. I don't think there there's not a fence dividing the front. Yeah. So they can be contained within their personal space and we're not doctors. I'm trying to understand
what this is. But if if that's somewhat of what it is that if it gets pulled back 5 ft from the porch and it is contained and by a gate that is now enclosing her area. So it's giving her
the sense of security yet it's not a fence all the way all the way out. It offers them a burden. It offers the fence to beat their particular hardship in this case because of this case and
not having a fence all the way out to the property all the way out to the property. I got you. Anyone else? Mr. Pantina again Mr. O'Brien or Mr. Um I said my piece on on
my feelings about this and uh and I agree with you. It's a very hard decision. So I asked this if the board considers moving fence back to
back I don't know and the option um your comment was comply so it's it's mitigation type thing but um I um
United States. I guess first time property owners would be hunt for however long forever. Yeah, hopefully forever. But uh since it is a person,
can you put language in there or is it just out of control? Can you put language decision that says that should the applicant So I move next door or something like that. Um that has to come out
personal hardship and not a property hardship. But if you give out a personal hardship it goes with the property and it's there for the house. That's a good point. Just um I have been in we're all talking about granting the barren front yard fence variance. It's
just a question of where um but I have been involved in some medical situations with some boards where that kind of you know when the house when when it's no longer necessary for the reasons then it comes out but if
they sell it the in this case the fence would come out if they move um it's it's doable I mean it's you know I've seen it happen with converting garages to bedrooms because of a medical issue and
when it's no longer needed, it's back to a garage. Uh, and would you agree about medical testimony that you could support that discussion? That's why I wanted a little bit more flesh. Uh, it seems to me that there's clearly a medical
problem disability here. And if the testimony is that a fence helps her, that's that's I think that's more Would you agree with me? And Kevin, that's certainly a positive. That's something we definitely could do. But I'm going to
throw one more one more thing into the mix. Um, we're here right now listening to really the hardship side of this. As much as I don't like that fence where it is right now, and I'm going to be very clear, I don't like where it is because
of our ordinance and it's there for a reason. But with this particular case, something needs to be done. I also don't agree with having it five feet off the porch because I think that is going to
be even more confining and that may create another whole issue even from a line of sight. It kind of looks like it's coraled now. It may be more like a whatever that may be. I would propose
going 10 ft off that front porch having that fence there. that would give your wife and your family more space. Um, and she won't feel so confined in that space. It'll be set back. You won't see it from uh the the street as much. And
and and that's the way I think I would like to see it. I think if you look at the picture, I said 5 ft from the steps, you're saying 10 ft from the porch. We're actually saying same thing. And if you look at the picture, the natural
construction of what he has right now where the concrete ends after the stairs, give him 5 ft in front of the staircase and he's got it. He has a bend in the fence right now. So take that piece of fence, run it south towards his
right hand neighbor. It's having what we're both saying from different directions. All right. Yes. Chris, just to clarify what everyone's saying, presently there's a 25 ft setback from the porch to the right, the
stairs in this and the banding is about 10 ft. So you're doing from the porch there your steps and landing which is a 10 ft from the porch. So right here within the front yard within the front yard.
So I think that's so if you're saying if you're saying another 5t after that you would have the fence 15 ft from the or you can go to the front yard set back at 25
you I was saying from the end of the landing from the landing from the landing from what was that so does that make sense to have a fence around it and No, it's 5T in front of it. I thought
that's what you were saying. Okay. So, maybe I'm not understanding. Thank you. Okay. Okay. I say 10 ft. It would be my suggestion. 10 ft in front of the
staircase. The landing there makes sense. It gives it a little bit more room. The landing right there. Kevin question aesthetically. I mean engineering wise there's I don't
really have problems. It's just whether it's 10 ft out or they're 25 ft out from the rightway. That's up to you. It probably makes logistical sense, common sense to bring it to the front, but you don't think that looks good. What do you
bring me? So, where it's right where it is right now. Aesthetically, that doesn't look good to me at all. No, it does not. Right. So, I want to bring it back, but at the same time, I don't want to make it like an incarceration cell.
Right. So, what would be the appropriate amount of space sad? If if we're going to do something like this, let's let's do something that works. Not something any other fence is allowed to go to the
front yard set back if allowed. Right? So, should you decide this is allowed, you may want to say, okay, that this should meet what all the other fences do. just go to the drug center or the board may decide to bring it back. It's
up to you. Mr. David, no comment. No, I mean I personally I think this case needs to be moved along. We have another big case to hear and uh we're probably going to be here rather late as a result. But having heard all the different discussions
around where it should be in my mind, we should get some kind of survey as to what it would look like. But I mean more aesthetic where what it would look like 10 ft, what it would look like from 5T, you know, the different possibilities. The fence is up. It's not coming down until this board votes or stays up until
this board votes. So I don't see an urgency to try and hash this out to satisfy everyone here tonight this very moment. So that's that's who's going to make that drawing. Who's going to make that who's going to make I I mean I think the board is got to make that decision. Mr. David, you
know what are we going to see? I think what we're trying to do is I I think Mr. Harrison is trying to be cooperative and saying I'll move it back. you tell me where I could move it back that I could also get um what I need for my wife and to make him go back to the drawing
board. Maybe we could do it now. Just Yeah, I'm just giving you my opinion. You asked for it and it's up to the board on one vote, but we can possibly get Christian to go out there and give us two, you know, schematics of where how it might look. You know, I don't know if that's appropriate or not, but I
just want to make the point that the board needs to Yeah. should try to move this along. Mr. Grimmaldi, you're an architect. Give me some visual real quick. Would you like me to make Well, would you like to make I have one up here. So, so just I just drew a line of work. Would you like me to make a motion?
Yeah, make the motion on the setback where you'd like it to go. And I think we need to move this on and show you. I I I I think I think yeah if you want to go all through that based upon I'd
like to make a motion based upon the exhibit of I guess this is the existence. Yes, we're going to do basically as what
we kind of discussed. I drew a straight line from where his existing fence is at the end of his landing after the stairs at the end of his landing where it goes from south to north and ends at the
corner of his driveway. Take that line back to the southern point of his property. Okay, which will give him an area of protective area in front of his house which is approximately 10 ft from the porch right now.
And I would make a motion to approve this with the language that was from the landing or from the path from the porch. Bottom of the landing from the steps come down the bottom of the steps the landing at the end of the landing
is right now edge of land. Okay. Okay. And just extend that portion to the towards the school. And again, obviously with all the caveats, I'm going to want that because if the board agrees on that and votes for it, I
may want to attach it to the resolution. This is where this is 20 ft from the front. Yes, that's ft from the front yard. Okay. It's very simple. It's 20 ft from the front yard. 20 ft from the front yard. So, you just made a motion that you would your a motion is that we
will we will uh entertain 20 ft from the front yard setback with a condition stating that this is only for the purpose of while you own the house and it's non-transferable to the next owner.
The fence needs to come down and and uh adhere to all the presence codes. Okay. Yes. If we can do this with a medical situation, I've seen it done and nobody complains about it because it helps everybody. You can Yes.
Unless I'm not understand here to there and then from here to there. Thank you. Could I? Well, I think it's too strong. I think that's the only So, you were saying that line was drawn in the front of the landing needs to
move out towards the street. Let me I think that's Yeah, you're doing that right across the landing where the where the So, you're doing it right there. But this is where the existing is now, right? But there's a piece of fence right now. Okay. Cuz it comes this way that way. So just take it
that way instead. This is where it is right now. Correct. It is right now. And now this is what you're proposing. That's the That's Are you sure? Yeah. I'm saying this. I'm saying that.
So you're No, I'd have to see something. He's saying 10 ft from the from the from the from the porch at the bottom of the steps. Yes. That's we have a lot of grass out there.
So on the front wall, just let me do this real quick. This is the front right where it is now. This is what Grimaldi is at the front yard. This is very tight here. That's 10 ft. Where were you saying what? Right. Go to the rightway. Just go to
the rightway. Just go to the rightway. Go to the rightway. Go to the rightway. It's like being in here. We don't have to vote on that. Somebody can make another motion. The front of the house. I can't make the motion. Anybody?
Would you would you consider adjusting your motion to the right? Huh? I'd rather not. You'd rather not? Okay. Okay. There's a motion on the floor and we have to hear that motion. Does the motion is to the bottom of the landing?
Does anyone second that motion? Okay, seeing none. That motion dies. That motion dies. Is there anyone want to make another motion? Motion 25 ft from the porch. 25 ft from the porch,
which would be the right away from property line. from the property line 25 ft from the property line. The motion is 25 ft from the property line with the condition that we stated forward that it carries only to this property this property owner and if it is sold the
fence comes down. Is there a second? Second by Mr. Plesi. Okay. Roll call, please. Mr. Perno, yes. Mayor Porovich. Yes. Mr. Scarice. on her motion.
Yeah, she's 25 ft. 25 ft. We pushed it back a little bit from the break. Yes. Yes. For Mr. Screes. Mr. David? No. Mr. Clinty? No. Mr. Pantina? No. Mr. Mazio? Yes. Mr.
Ley? No. Mr. Colo? Yes. Mr. Gamaldi? No. only called nine. Nine members that's all we can nine regular members I think seven you went to 10 went to 10. All
right. Mr. Demaldi doesn't count then. Okay. So what if I had four? Four and then two people will call. Five. Five yes. You have five yes. Five no. No. But yeah only nine can vote.
Somebody can't vote. You alter. You got to take out take you out. Alternative number one. Okay. Oh, sorry. So, you got 1 2 3 4 five yays, four nays. Is that right? Yep. Am I correct? Yeah.
Okay. Okay. Okay. Good luck, my friend. You know what to do. They'll set Who's going to set something up for him or does he What does he do at this point? called the current resolution. It will be written up for our next meeting for
the September meeting. All the conditions will be laid out. One of us will make sure you get a copy of that. You have an opportunity to come back to us. If you have any discussion of those additions
to show up, we get a 5minut recess. Yeah, I got to hit the motion. You're welcome. Uh, want to make a motion for a fiveminute recess? Yeah, we're done. Yeah, we're doing it. Um, I make a motion for a 5m minute recess.
All in favor? Five minutes in favor? I Okay. Um, we have now application 24006 North Holding. Um, Mr. Hal, we had a a quick conference. We're going to try to
hold this to an hour if we could. Um, if we could move it along well, I'd like to again thank several months ago began presenting testimony.
My clients are not available. They are here this evening. Uh we present our site engineers last meeting. None of those variances have changed. This is use and uh again what we're looking to do as
part of the project is essentially clean the site add to one side of the building and then additions. We'll have brief testimony explaining why these officials work and and
quick snapshot large factory and with that you have only a few large and then factory work going on now is warehouse distribution
that are there's more rein all of the UPS, Fox and we will outline what those various tenants do in the location and then I I am going to take a few minutes to go through the changes that we've had
since our last meeting here several TRC's and really appreciate Kevin sitting down with us on several occasions and all of their policy giving us several memorandums and then we
address all of those conditions. Uh I do also want to start out by saying I found out today and I know brought up that there are fire violations and public health violations and the board was uh
uh kind enough to send those to me today. I'm going to have my clients come up briefly. the plumber was there this evening called us that isn't used and they're going to bring up code
fire violations if you work with the fire department address those so what I'd like to do is because I know that's concern just to come up with address that issue that is
correct Okay, gentlemen. Again, we don't have good microphone tonight. You really got to project. Um, and this way we could hear you. I just about heard Mr. Hail, but I wasn't going to yell at him. Who uh who was speak who will be speaking? I think
Paul, wait a second. You can be sworn to say your name. Why don't you first if you could just state your name? Spell your last name. First name. My last name is Royer.
First name S H L O N E. Last S H L O N E. The last name is U R E U R. Okay. Sloan. Is that how you say with regard
to this you want me to you want to affirm not I swear correct me I don't with regard to this application do you affirm that testimony you give show me the truth yes okay why don't we do
I Joel Kyle J O E Last name Ty E I T E L the one A. Okay. If you could raise your right
hand, same thing. Do you swear or affirm that the testimony you give? Yeah. Okay. And are you both the tenants, owners, applicants? What's your affiliation? I'm the partner property property manager.
Okay. Okay. So, they're both affiliated with Got it. Okay. And uh again we'll get to the specifics of the application and they were at several of the TRC meetings that we had with the board professionals
and got the feedback and let our engineer address that also put together again operational testimony that there's two issues or two sets of issues if you first s
with the working touch on those violations. and privacy services update on that. So we have a study site. So we had an inspection two weeks ago. We had daily inspection and we had several
issues with the building. We did some construction of the building out of nowhere. So some issues like Xerx work. We had the pylon like have a lot of signal. Uh we had uh one of the
blocks defined as a demo. Um we had um extension ports and the request reports for the for the L report and the and the sprinkler reports. Um I
provide all the second floor that was closed. I provided already for the fire official the all the reports this system I sent in the report system show um you can comply that the second all is
done most stuff everything um it's pretty much done we try to finish the exit flies um remove extension cords we tried everything just fine and stuff in the shop. We're
pretty much done. They asked for organizers like aisles and we had workers there and organized space making sure that there is enough what it was asking for and pretty much
all was done. and hopefully sometime next week hopefully inspection and show that everything. Okay, yeah, certainly can. I have some questions. I just want to let the board
know that the inspection was done on May 27th, so it was not two weeks ago. um hidden in your uh list of items that you uh sit that you address. There's a second floor closet door that if you
open it, it falls down to the uh on the second floor to the first floor. Um I'm not just concerned about the people there that are working there, but our firefighters and first responders if they have to come into the building
and also um there question. Oh, I want to know if that's being addressed, what the status is of that. This wasn't on this. This is um this is violation number five on on the list. The closet door.
So, when is what is the status of that? It is not. So, so keep in mind we bought a property about 18 months ago. We bought in property through this tenant.
Can the board members here? Gentlemen, we really have to ask you to speak up. Okay. It's very hard. I spoke to my uh the fire chief at 3:50 p.m. today and and I he said that he's made several calls to you to set up an inspection and
has not received a call back. I replied to text me today. Maybe it was after I spoke to I spoke to him with four. So, let's let's cut to the chase. We have fire uh violations and we have
health department violations. Should this board decide at the end of the night that we would approve, should we decide that we would approve this application, it would be subject to a condition that all these violations will
be met and satisfied to the building department and the uh health department and the fire code official. You will not be able to get a certificate of occupancy. you will not be able to do anything unless this criteria is met prior to construction of
anything. This has to be met first. There's no problem with that. And uh please make sure that you have the appropriate people have cell numbers they can get in touch with. I do know there
are several as obviously some things we've done. There's no excuse for fire safety items not to be addressed and still no problem in addition. Again, please make sure that appropriate fire and health
department human beings in that building right now. There's human beings in that building. Yes. Um M Mr. Paldi had a quick question. Do you mind, Stephen? Sure. Did they just
testify that there was construction being done without permit? I don't I didn't I couldn't hear them. So, you have a better grab on. Is that what you're saying? Was there construction being done without permits? You have permits? Okay. So, in other
words, when the official came in, he noticed these other things going on, um these violations. Okay. I'm sorry. There was a complaint. There was a complaint. Okay. Okay. So if if we got this question
these violations either I don't know if you sent somebody we just got them today. Okay from Carmen today we got I'm having a hard time here. We got the complaints from Carmen today. The violation list of all the
violations today. Okay. I just would like to have the information and so they know what came in today. So stop. So I I think the the applicant has stated that if this application was
approved, he would abide by taking care of all the violations, fire and um health. However, the application shouldn't be the reason that you're doing it. It should just be done and it should be done immediately because it's
a a fire safety hazard and no water, no hot water, no flushing toilets, no lights, doors collapsing, whatever that is. It just needs to be Well, this is the report I have in front of me. So, all I'm saying is you have to meet the criteria and then we can move forward. I
would also invite mayor have fire officials or partners officials. Don't hesitate to contact my office. I have your number involved in making sure that Okay. Is everyone satisfied with what we
just stated as far as that's concerned? Yes. All right. Good. Let's get on to the Let's get on to the case. So, I just wanted to touch on what we're over and I know Mr. President was here and previously this morning. the revisions that were made to the plans since we
started since our first hearing and working with Kevin and Christian on that and Jim had put together a letter or series three different letters outlining revisions of plans but I think they they
may have been submitted as submissions over time and I just want to touch on them and it reflects responses to their reports so and some of them are we'll get into technical uh but there's a May 20th letter and just said there was a
detail on sheet five sheet three now showing the entire building that was done Christian requested southside sign two additional ballers and the no right turn sign to discourage both right
turns white trucks coming out as well as any trucks heading We had a sight meeting and it was concerned. You know, we don't want the trucks coming down 12 but coming into our site. Whatever we can do to make it much more
difficult for them when they're leaving to make a right out or coming down. Uh landscaping tables have been added to the sheets. There's some additional landscaping that's proposed part of this
Mr. Last year we did a requested addition street. Uh turning radius for trucks was added to the plan. I think that was coming from both uh details pressur and uh pavement
sections again focusing on that left turn. Obviously that's the right turn in left turn out and we enter zero. Um the door exterior block A has been detailed
showing the decks and the ramp. Um wall lights have been changed to have a full cut off. It was concerned about the wall lights shining out. Uh additional harbor bindings were added along the south line of the property. uh and two lighting
over pictures also to ensure there's uh no lighting uh spill over and the uh just some other technical comments. That was the May 20 revision that was after KRC's and June 6th. Um it
was again just more technical um existing municipal signs on east side of 12 street were added. They're there, but we're shown uh request PSE G to shield pole lights. Um we don't own those pole
lights. PS and G does, but request PS to shield those. uh the uh removal of additional areas that just again vetted and then tenant identification and existing plans uh and uh comments on the
loading bay and also details part of it. Uh it was the location of the trash enclosure that's up in the corner of that parking lot and it was also enclosed with the I believe it's a
concrete wall. Uh so she can shield it even though we're adjacent to street. There are residences beyond that. We want to add additional buffering. And we have also no problem with
private baller having reasonable powers on garbage pickup and delivery. Um so that those were the changes that we made to the plan to address the comments from the board. Um
Mr. Mart is here. Uh but I thought I'd just touch on what those changes were. It was a collaborative effort with and I think you might have I don't know couple of board members I think so between this
and in this project which TRC's we have so go ahead Nick I didn't see you either or Christian um I was here looking at the first page first hearing on this and we were all in agreement about the no right
turn, no left turn, and sort of the driveway. We're trying to see that you respond to um so this question is really toward Christian as whether he's comfortable with this or whether you
change it. So, and I throw this all on M there were certain things that were provided um that didn't match. So sheet three which is supposed to be the pros improvement sheet five
don't drive this more detail on five but it doesn't even say on sheet three that sheet five detail so sheet three doesn't show the balls um it doesn't show the signs um I don't know what else it doesn't show but I mean it's it's just not
consistent are you happy with that question from an enforcement I know in terms of he showed exactly what we were asking for in terms of on sheet five, right? And I would recommend
that the rest of the sheets beautify, right? So like like on sheet three, I mean the fact that you put in again the fact that you put in radius curve or what I call radius in the driveway in
the right way and you got sidewalk there. You got to have a hand check. Now on she just said you press her but you got to have a hand check for him. She can't just have you know he had broken a month ago. And also um and this is just
my personal comment again Christian act on it. Do we do we want that no right term sign in the rightway or do we want the property right during several of our PRC meets we wanted we wanted the sign on
so that the driver would see not to make a right turn just there's also across the street in existing no right turn that's not on here is that's not that's not shown that's not shown on three or five so you don't know I mean It's not
one of them. It's on a sheet. They all have to be reconciled. And that's our comments. Right. I saw that. So, but we we want a no rights turn sign on the property as well as
adjacent. Okay. And I think the burl is also into uh additional sign signage out on board. Uh I know frankly if I when I go down
there this site it seems pretty much clear that trucks are allowed backing steps to try and discourage and Joel will touch on that they're also instructing
drivers to compensate back turn and also including lease to their tenants that that restriction [Music] as part of our TRC meetings. chair. Uh, one of the recommendations from all of
us was that should the board wish to consider this application that perhaps part of a resolution would be to communicate with Burough and Council Burough Burough Council and mayor uh to suggest encourage additional no truck
signage on 12 Street and the Boulevard. That's a policy decision for the board to make sure it's not a truck. No, it's not a truck. No trucks allowed it is pretty clear.
So another factor and I get this from here but I I thought u clients who weren't here at the last meeting just talked again about what the tenants uh at the location are hours of operation
and inspect inspecting truck uh activity on that site. So uh I'm going to call upon you to just touch on that three tenants that are at the location.
So speak out. So right now right now at the property um the property is 92,000 ft on the ground floor. There is um 87,000 ft I should say the main building and the 5,000 ft like the side building
like like an L shape building is like an L shape. So it's like this side there's a small 5,000 square building on the main building 87,000 ft drive probably two two or three towns in
there right now I myself I'm a I'm a business owner we have a business it's called home for you um what we do is um we import products from overseas and we sell them online every single day we get um we sell them on Walmart and Amazon
Wayfair where like Home Depot etc. A lot of different channels online. Somebody goes online and order something electronically the order gets transmitted to our system and we can fill the products from our warehouse
directly to consumer. So we get that they pick up from UPS, FedEx, USPS, DHL from the main um all the main um carriers that pick up besides the pickups we get every single
day. We're not getting it right now, but this is this is eventually we start getting pick up. Um besides the pickup we get every day, we probably get one full like most of the time containers, sometimes two containers per day. containers come in, get dropped by the
loading night. Takes about three to five, sometimes 20 over a day, how long plus we could get one or two trucks. Usually it's one truck um will pick up four uh delivery um 20 pallets, 10
pallets. So just first talking about my own business. The reason why we need so many tax um trying to add that because all the carriers they all come to pick up between four and 5 days short window
because we try to if a customer order for a to customer the same day. So everybody comes in the same short period. So what we do is we going to put the the boxes in front of the loading deck and when the show
is off in 20 minutes um interesting per second you mention product just generally what type of product we're not talking so no so we're talking basically we sell out furniture um gentlemen please let's talk
so out furniture uh medical furniture like shower chairs, can bed rails. Uh we have a line of exercise products like gym equipment. It's meant making for consumer use. You buy power towers,
dumbbells, not flammable. No, not like so it's made consumer consumer goods. We have two different categories. We sell a lot but everything is consumer. Nothing nothing for this company. Home for you. Home for you. Yes. S H O N B model for
linear logistic letter for you I think it's an logistics and then what are general hours of operation? So we um operate usually at normal hours between 8:30 and 5:30. Um
for another week, Friday, we do one or two hours. Uh usually no. So how this could be one or two weeks like Friday and you explain the number of parts you
touched on. So I plan for our company we going to have like four four or five carriers major carriers pick up every single day one or two containers drop for a day they rotate they bring a new one pick up the old one and one trailer usually every day for delivery and pick
up. This is uh which is about our company. Then we have two more tenants right now building one tenant is existing tenant but we bought the property still there named mental logistics that we discovered today. Um they operate on two three of their own
trucks two vans. There are like public storage for customers in mainly in New York City. Um maybe some local also. Um, so they're getting deliveries every day
from the two trucks and they are doing them from their own trucks and then that client was there prior to you buying business. Yes. So priority they were I was 10 12 in. So
right now there is like we the occupied company say 40% of the property there is 20% of the property which is rental logistics then there's also one small kind of sports kind of energy um over
there just again hours of operation hours it defies no weekend no And then there's Sky Mason again that was another company. So Sky is another company who just prior motor
properties. Uh we also have the whole operation from 9 to5 days a week all the Friday. They have their own fleet of three vans and two pickup trucks. Um they do their jobs. I believe they do
masonary stuff kind of stuff. Um so this property is generally storage property and then there is like right now a section of the property which is still okay.
So that was uh again unfortunately Sam and Joel weren't here right here. So we thought we wanted to make sure they came and explained how was operation and why bay doors which is the the main impetus
of this application aside from digital landscaping cleaning up the side of the building. I think that was an exhibit submitted with the facade. actually the corner has it there's a request to say see what the sign look like south
rendering with the south side they say um the you know when we bought the property the building did like build probably some section 1920 something like this so we started doing construction inside the military walls
of we upgrade the building to basically clean up the code of the code up to date uh for lighting the building up. Um one of the reasons we need not as much traffic we don't
have footage of building um it's because matter the building divided into three or four sections everybody needs to get their two or three dedicated loading dots across it. If they're getting a container truck one or two
access to their operation, no trucks should stay outside on the north trees waiting to come in. Prior I bought the property, my previous owner told me that um you only had four guys try and they
had times like the four guys were occupied because they could take two containers or two trucks there. It was traffic like a 42 trailer sitting outside waiting and going back to back to the
property. I believe with the new um doors opening up it's not going to be necessary anymore outside I believe this it's not they don't like to have going back to your hours of operation all three businesses right now are not occupying the the
building or not working on the weekends. Correct. Correct. And you got you have future plans to grow your business. Is that going to be the motif for the future business? Correct. So which could be like the holiday season on Black Friday?
That's that's understandable, but we're looking at a Monday through Friday operation. Chris, did you have something? Yes. Just wanted to um confirm um right now there are like five spaces like five 10 spaces. So two of them are occupied by both my company.
Yeah. And then the other ones are add two probably two of them. One of them is going to be a third problem after you expect that. It's going to be
probably the same nature of we have. So we made we made the building not not the manufacturing of anymore. uh very much more for warehouse warehouse distribution probably the same commerce
talk very slow operation chairman here um you might want to uh if you if you have if we have enough right here with these
two gentlemen. We might want to hear Mr. Masterati and then come back to this. It's starting to You're starting to encroach with regard to to the to the uh southside elevations approximation or the word proves it.
That's what it will look like. Colors, texture, a hint. Is it going to look like this when you fix it? Yeah. During one of our meetings, you mentioned that building adjacent to
where you were supposed to be done. a little more into how that motivation the whole work. It's just where the What we were talking is some lower tech but some lower
um low pain this is the best area to put usually a lower back if you have 4T truck back in to get to the height of the building right usually 48 50 in is 24
If you post right next to it after this post, you have anything else for these gentlemen? No. Anyone else right now? Mr. H. Yes. Mr. H. Yeah. And Mr.
Can you talk to Mr. Mr. to uh the last few that were requested by Christian. Let me just briefly identify that
I summarized a few of my reported and we didn't want to the board everyone but a whole new submission. We'll also get this as an exhibit. Jim, why don't you come on up? Do we have maybe
A1 was the rendering? It should be marked A1. Oh, wait a minute. No, we had A1. It should be a and and these different chairman June
17th my plan report number two on page three item Rio the very bottom I showed one two three four five items
that have not been addressed as a result of our technical review committee meetings that Mr. Buo and I had suggested the board very interested in seeing perhaps Mr. H Mr. Mastery can
show us that they're provided. There is a site plan here if anyone wants to see it full size. Okay, we'll submit those, but have not even Can I can I just
interject? I know I know we see about seven site plans out there I guess with the markings of what we asked for but if I remember correctly I appreciate that they're there. I know we did not see them, but I know it went to you and you.
Correct. No, we're bringing that. This letter um came in on June 11th. Plans were just done last Friday. We didn't want to submit them because we bring them as an exhibit. Okay. We just had testimony indicating that it addresses
Kevin. Okay. We have not seen that. You have not seen either. Did you Chris? I saw both today. I saw Okay. You saw it today. Okay. Is it 2011? Yeah. Are you on page three here? Well, that is flight plan for the
17th. We're also referring to a letter the 11th summarized technical review committee. Either one. This is June 17th. the the plans that were submitted in our package right
those plans aren't even plans that you right June 11 June 6th which also were in the package including the June whatever he said today right we reviewed the last
Wednesday to the 6th of June right the in the package unless I open it is 3 is May 1925. You should have been provided 6 June and then Mr. Minardi was now talking about provisions since then
these are technical in nature. No, I get it. But I'm just saying the ones that I was referring to were actually Sorry. I'm sorry. I'm just I just want Mr. Master, you're still under oath from the
March 13th meeting. I'm assuming all is well with you in terms of your licenses and all. Yes. Good. So, Mr. uh from that are raised by you. Sure. Highlight quantity.
Absolutely. Show a WT WP 64 inbound to the property southbound 12. That is a size truck. It's a big Mr. Yes. Excellent. Uh, number two, match
building design driveway drawing on each sheet. Yes. Number three, provide outside shielding for east lot over lighting. Um, I'm going to go say that we'll contact PSG who owns the
lights about providing shielding provide average daily or weekly truck traffic. Okay. That that is up to the uh the owners because I cannot provided as that was the testimony that that was the
testimony you just gave. Correct. So we've done that confirm removal of any ancillary dumpster areas. Is there a note to that effect? Yes. Okay. Very well. I take Mr. Master's word that
cleans up the open. Okay. we can move on as test and certainly be sure we will be worn out by this plan. So Mr. chairman. Um, again, I think the
hard work professionals the hard work of your board professionals and the board feedback really addressed from that first hearing and all of the comments that concerns that the board had and comments that
I think we have to three on this project. We I mean it must have been four revisions since the year we back in March. Um many revisions TRC's back and forth. We've ironed out I believe we
hired out everything. Okay. So through the TRC's and the reports that we're hearing now, you adhere to all of Mr. O'Brien and and Chris's uh needs is what you're saying. Yes, Chris. I'd like to make an
amendment to one of my comments about the EV spacings. Um, according to state regulations, any new parking lot requires EV spaces and the I guess the parking that's proposed on that lot C
would be technically a parking parking lot that would require eight space for that. How many is that, Chris? One, two. It's not new, is it?
Is our parking there now? Is that parking lot? We're not proposing park. You're proposing little provide whatever is required in that area.
So I understand that Mr. Quato wants to amend his statements because this is something new that has come up with him. So I I initially requested three. Okay. Unless Mr. could show that that was prior parking lot
gravel. It's now a bit grass unless you can show historically was a parking lot which means it's still more I I have to ask a question guys. Mr. Pluto asked for three EV spots, right? In originally, what he's saying is you
don't need three, you only need one. So, if three was requested, you have to reduce it by two. It's no big deal, right? Yeah. I was just saying that we didn't need any because the state rule says there's no parking then require any
Well, I I don't want it. I just want to do what's right for me. I use gas. I I lot C on the north side of the building appears to be new according to the site plan. We suspected it's a historic parking lot includes its gravel. So Mr.
Hail can show us historically it was parking lot. We don't need you don't need air. But if it's a new parking lot, Mr. Quaido needs one evening. Simple, Mr. H. That's simple enough. Mr. Gormaldi just real quick to this piece that used to be the extension of the
railroad right there. There were railroad tracks alongside the building. So there could have been parking there previously. The railroad tracks came out. It was crowded. Okay. Somebody may have used it as parking, but it wasn't a legitimate
parking area. Right now you need one. Okay. You need one. How about that? Well, would you like to do that? Well, no, I'm just saying when Mr. Zeus lie, um, I did show it as parking when when this is going back 10 years
and I did show parking at that time and included it in an analysis. Mr. We'll work with you. I think you should I think you should move this along.
Is that everything you have? We we have nothing certainly here. Excited to get this project. Chris, are you satisfied with everything? And they said that they will comply with
all the comments in both and Okay. Hey U Kevin. Yes sir. Are you satisfied with everything that they have brought in front of us? Yes. Okay. So they have complied and they're going to do whatever everything that um uh we
talked about here tonight and in our previous uh meetings plus whatever reasonable conditions the board wishes to impose in the resolution. What did we talk about as far as conditions are concerned? Cuz we didn't talk about anything here tonight except
that EV spot. You talked about the violations being cured. Oh, the violations. Yes, we I thought we handled that, but go ahead. You talked about uh it's a board decision whether you want to include a request to the burl about additional truck signage as well. Okay.
And then the EV or other discussion for where will be located? I'd like to do this after we talk to the woman
when you pull in that lot of 12 and you go all the way to the back on that second corner is uh the two buildings kind of where that elbow is. It's going to be in that area wall on the on the
side that that face. Okay. Um, are you pretty much complete with your testimony, Mr. Hill? Or I mean, Mr. Mr. Motti, or I'd just like to add that, uh, someone mentioned that the
the um the signage on on on Club Street was not on plans, but it's on the existing conditions. I was on page three and five, but I was looking on two. I don't have determination.
Yeah. It is on the existing condition and I probably should put it on that sheet. Mr. Master has agreed as a resolution condition that he will match all the plans so they all show everything work.
Okay. Okay. You gentlemen finish. Is there a motion to open this to the public? So moved. Moved by Mr. David, second by Mr. Clemente. All in favor? I anyone from the public wishing to speak on this matter and this matter only. Seeing
none, motion to close the uh public portion of the year. Closed by Mr. David, seconded by Mr. Mazio. All in favor? I. Okay, gentlemen, you have everything in front of you. We have to uh what we have is some conditions that
we're going to ask Lou to uh recite in that whatever that writing is over there. Yeah. and we'll Yes, Mr. Crom, I'll try to be quick. I just want to ask a couple of questions. Right now, the the business is functioning as it is
right now. Correct. Whatever business they're running right now, they're running out of there. We don't have updated plan because they they were very proactive by uh reacting to our professionals comments and updating their drawings, but we don't have them
right now. They have outstanding violations with many departments in township. Yes. And I I understand when you inherit an open building in the industry, I I understand you inherit
nightmares at times. Um our officials are going to have to go in there. Maybe they can give them some other recommendations. My suggestion would be let them come back to the board with the final set of drawings that we all can have. Get all the open violations
cleaned up, have a understanding from all departments that everything has been satisfied and let us make our decision at the next meeting because it's not going to impact their business today because they're functioning as they are today. And then
we could get put a nice bow on it. We get a final set of drawings. We know that all the violations are cured and all our leaders of our departments have been satisfied. And look, I'm glad they're here. I'm glad that they somebody moved into the c
into the building and it's functioning the way they are. But I think for the board, I think we'd all feel better that everything's done, there's a bow on it, and we most likely vote. Okay. So I I
could take that into consideration as your board chair and of course I don't make the final decisions, but you also have to look at a couple things. We have our two professionals who are satisfied with what Mr. Hal has presented here tonight. We could prolong the inevitable
if we want to. But don't forget before they do anything, they have to take care of their violations because even if we approve this tonight, our resolution doesn't come through until September. So they have now until September to get it
right or that resolution doesn't get passed. Am I correct, gentlemen? So this gives them almost a deadline to say, "Hey, wait a minute. Do we really want to move forward? We got to get this right." And if they don't get it right,
that resolution will get passed. If we put all the conditions, lay them out. I mean, we know everything that they're going to do. We hammered this out quite a bit. I'm exhausted. And the only thing I would have said, whether it's our professionals, somebody
needs to make sure the property is cleaned up. As they've spoken about, the north side of this property has a number of 55 rusting 55gallon drums in that parking lot area. There's debris, there's dead cars, there's multiple
things. Mr. Baldi, I think you make a good point, but then we will put that as part of this condition. But I I don't want to come back here and then rehear this whole application. If we're going to talk about that, will we talk about it right now, dump it into the condition side of this? And I'm sure Mr. Hail will
advise his clients, you want this thing done, this is what you need to do. Am I correct? Condition. I walk the site and all those things that have to be done. Can we add that in that all this debris and drugs and Yeah. site's got to be
cleaned up. Mr. um overall questions. The board could certainly ask the zoning official, the health department to go there as soon as possible, make sure that this property meets code. Okay, Mr. and all the environ I don't know what's
in those drops though. I mean environmental work. Um I mean that should be for me said the health. Mr. O'Brien said health. I guess that would check that out too. Yeah, I I think that comes under um I think that comes under um part of what
they also inherited. So they inherited this, they have to do a cleanup, h whatever means and methods for the sake of safety, environmental protection, uh all of those conditions have to be met and have to be dealt with properly. Our uh sub code official needs to get out
there, take a look at the property. You gentlemen are telling me here saying you want to get this application passed and you want to do the right thing for Kennallorth. Clean up the place, get it done right, or the resolution is not going to go forward. And we'll put that and outline. Kevin, are you satisfied
with the plans coming to you and Chris for your final review? I I don't really think the board needs to see the plan again. Um, Mr. Grimmaldi for you. You can, but what he's what I think you're talking about is coming back again to look at these when we have
two professionals that could just run right through the items. Okay. Version of the plan was sent out to somebody. I don't know electronically. I don't know why they're not in your bins. That is a failure on the part of
the burrow. Yeah. But anything that's sent to us perhaps if the board wants we can review it just to verify that what has been said is there. Yes. And if everything is fine then they should be sent to the entire board so you can see
it before the resolution. That's fine. We'll have it before the resolution. I'm sorry. Um mayor be on the north side of the you know what mayor we'll work with. as to where it's dictated.
Okay. Okay. Let's uh let's let's get a motion here. Is there a motion on the floor to approve this application with the conditions set forth which he will recite? Mr. Gormvali made the motion to approve this application with these
conditions. Before we second the motion, you want to hear the conditions? I was going to say just make sure in those conditions that the building department and all their members have gone through the building because there's construction going on and that's all signs off
and fire that they're satisfied by the time we get that resolution. Okay. Okay. Okay. The res the conditions that I had from the March meeting are as follows. First of all, the overriding
conditions are the reports that are and the conditions in those reports that Christian and and Kevin put together from our first meeting. I have the the trash dumpster area in the corner southside. Uh that's where the trash is
going to go and there's supposed to be trash and closer plans provided to us. They have been provided to us. Buffered. Okay. So that's not a condition any longer. That's part of the plan. Am I correct? Yes. And we've addressed that. We've addressed that. So that's not a condition. Colorized rendering on the south side of the building. I think we
saw that tonight. No leasing of parking spaces to third parties. We haven't discussed that. You can address the March. Okay. But I just want Okay. Uh directionals at the entrance. I know in your reports guys you had some more
details like no right turn. Yes. Okay. That's landscaping. And again this was before all the modifications. We we'll provide landscaping plans. I heard testimony on that. They have. Okay. Question mark.
Remove bar. Remove barb wire. They agreed to that. These were addressed on March 13th. Okay. Uh the shields on the lights. Um they've addressed Good. Light investigation. Signage plan. Is there a
signage plan for the site? They've agreed to remove the unnecessary signage. Good. Consolidating mailboxes. No. Small. We talked about that on the 13th. They got a big mailbox. It's there. They just don't use it. Why? I don't know.
tonight. Uh the fire and health violations uh has to be taken care of prior to CO that means zoning fire health go through the building and make certain everything is tight tightened up. Uh site cleaned
up encourage no truck signage um at the mayor and council on uh was on 14th on 12 12th Street. Yep. No truck sign on 12. Okay. Um, south side of the building
will look like the rendering that we saw. It's going to colors make it look like that. Uh, one ED spot on this property somewhere. And I think someone talked about matching plans. What was that? I think who might have
said it, Steve? Yeah, that was to have plans that actual plans. Actual plans. We want to check the plan every quarter the 17th is the RC memo left. All that is later. Okay, that's and then our normal
conditions as far as pay taxes getting any other approvals that they need. I don't know if there's any environmental. Was the EV part of a condition or part of the plan? Part of the condition, right? EV. Yeah,
that's it. That's what I have. In regards to the sub code, I think you stated uh we'll go through the inside of the building, but they should also go to the outside of the building because the 55gallon drums and stuff are on the exterior as I understood it. Yeah. But
specifically, that should be a condition that the exterior and the interior should be reviewed by our subco. Yeah, I agree. Can I ask a question, Mr. in announce? Yeah. Um, when you write your resolutions, and I don't I I read
it, but I don't recall at this time. When you write your resolutions, did you include a caveat in there that you know, uh, conditional pond, other state? Uh, yeah. That's normal. So, the the hazardous waste would be like whatever
they need from any other entity, they have to get and if it changes what we approve, they need to come back. kept on. Let's not take this too far. We don't know if there's hazardous waste out there. The thing is we got to address what the violations are as one
uh item. Violations have to be taken care of. And what the board is going to require and you could put this part of the condition is that we want a letter from the uh sub code officials that all these violations have been taken care of prior to us going to resolution. as far
as a condition to clean up the site. Clean up the site. What you find there, that's your responsibility to take care of in the proper manner. And that's how we do this. How are we going to uh document the site being cleaned up? The letters. Yeah. The letters from the sub
officials. It's got to be cleaned up. It's got to be clean. Also direct your professionals to go out before the next meeting and resolution to give a report to the board on the conditions on the property. So, what happens, mayor, um, if they meet the criteria that we talked about, which I think they will, and get
these violations done, now they go to work and they're going to do their construction. If their construction does not meet the conditions that we set forth, they don't get a CF. So, that's how that's that's the holding bolt, right? That's how we we hold that. But
the building department has to exercise everything that we have here and and get it done that way. Right. Okay. The motion was made by Mr. Baldi. Seconded by Mr. Mazio. Roll call, please. What is this? Roll call
to approve with this with the conditions plan and the dimensional variances of which there were no. Okay. Yeah, I think would you hold on. We were in the middle of a second for Mr. Rego. Will you get a report from our
professionals prior to your final resolution? Well, yeah, because they have to get the plans off to them also that it's been clean. They'll have all the letters from the We should have that before before September. I mean, we've got to have it otherwise wait. Well,
that's the thing. I don't want everything to be waiting till September and then then put these guys with no time to fix anything. Yeah. So, so wait a minute. The the the things that they have to abide by. They should do now is starting now because they are in
violation of the ordinances, right? That's what they have to take care of. Don't wait till the resolution trying to get out. Yeah. No, they got No. Is there any way to put some verbage? We did. It's got to be done prior to the resolution. We're telling them now, but if I do the resolution,
it's going to be post postfacto. I mean, yeah. And and let's say this, they don't get it to us that goes to October. Then they're not going to see it. But guys, do do whatever. Just get it done. If we get together with the town with I'll be
down that block next Friday. I'll be there. Okay. Motion was made made by Mr. Valdi. Yes, sir. We're in the middle of a roll call. I know we got to just question. Yes. To answer that concern.
Our meeting in September. Anybody have a date, Cath? Whatever that is. Your reports are due a week out. Their submissions are due two weeks out. So, two weeks out. We'll be out of the site looking around. So, everybody knows.
Kathy, you got a date? What's happen? September 23rd. September 23rd. backed it up four weeks. We're talking Labor Day or so. Was not done by then. We got problems. Get going right away. Roll call, please. And remember, Kathy, on the roll call
that this board has nine votes. Nine votes. We have an alternate one, Mr. Klo. Alternate three, Mr. Baldi. And alternate four is Mr. Brooks. They vote in that order. Yes. Yes. Mr.
Perna. Yes. Mayor Carloic. Yes. Mr. Scarice, yes. Mr. David, yes. Mr. Clementi, yes. Mr. Pantina, yes. Mr. Mazio, yes. And Mr. Lowi, yes. And Mr. Kella, yes. It's nine.
Congratulations, guys. Thank you. Appreciate you. Thanks. Anything for you, Mr. Hail? Okay, we're still in session, guys. Okay. Comments for the good of the board. Anyone have comments for the good
of the board? Gentlemen, we are still in session. I know you need to talk, but let's keep it down. We can't hear ourselves. Thank you. And uh I make a motion to Oh, no. No, there were no comments for the good of the board. No comments. All right. Not nobody wants to tell us how good we are. Go ahead. Take
a motion to open a meeting to the public. Made by Mr. David, second by Mr. Clemente. All in favor? I. Anyone from the public wishing to speak? Seeing none, motion to close the public. Motion made by Mr. David, second by Mayor Carlo. All in favor? I. Motion to
adjourn. Ajourned by Mr. David. Second by Mayor Carovich. All in favor? I. Okay. I want to have this. Thank you, gentlemen. Let's do a nice
job over there. Okay. Yes. All right. [Music]