I'm making this announcement in compliance with the open public meeting act chapter 231 public law 1975 laws of the state of New Jersey. The planning board secretary has prepared a schedule of this meeting of the planning board of the burrow of Kennallorth for the year
2025 and has posted a true copy of this schedule on the bulletin board located at the front entrance of Burough Hall and has mailed true copies of this schedule to the local source in the Star Ledger and is maintaining a copy of this schedule in Burough Hall. Accordingly, the notice requirements of the open
public meetings act have been satisfied in regards to this meeting. Can we stand for the pledge of allegiance? I aliance to the flag of the United States of America and to the republic for which it stands. One nation under God, indivisible, with liberty and
justice for all. Roll call, please. Mr. Perno here. Uh, Mayor Carovich here. Councilman Scree. Councilman Scree. Mr. David here. Mr. Clemente here. Mr. Pentina here.
Mr. Mazio here. Mr. Mr. Dowy here, Mr. Kella here, Mr. Grimmaldi here, and Mr. Bissi here. Is there a motion to approve the May 15th minutes? And the motion made by Mr. Grimaldi, seconded by Mr. Clemente. All in favor?
Okay. Communications. Kathy. Yes. Chairman. Um, we received correspondence from Mr. Lawrence Kelly regarding prior approval for 251 Monroe Avenue. Okay. Um, I'm just going to interrupt
here. I'm going to turn this over to Mr. Rego on that. But I'm going to ask everyone to project. The people out there are telling us that they can't hear us. Some of the microphones aren't on and the air condition that you're so frigid out there is not working as well as it should be. So, Mr. Rigo,
this one. Oh, for Rego. Come on, Rego. Over here. No, it's okay. I can pro. Uh we we received a letter from Lawrence Calli here in June 2nd. It's basically with regard to a prior application resolution we did at
251 Monroe. We memorialized the resolution on June 8,23. There apparently is an issue with Amazon truck truck parking on site.
Is that what the apparently there's there's Amazon trailers on site and somebody I have here and someone said something to somebody about it and Cali wrote a letter saying that
um we covered this in our 2023 resolution and these Amazon trailers can stay where they are, do what they do. Um I took a look at the resolution that we did and there was
um the storage areas that we were focusing on then was for entity called DOA USA limited. However, this resol and I need to speak to someone about it maybe Kevin. There's
different areas of the site. It's a big site. They mention the southern portion for DOA. They mentioned northeast portion and I have to sort out where these trailers are and whether DOA should be there or whether the Amazon
trailers are okay there. And that that's the main um uh issue regarding Amazon trailer storage. Um Kevin, off the top of your head, do you know what area DOA is? I
know we approve I think it was the northeast northeast section. I'd be happy to look at that, Mr. Reagan. Okay. But I do wonder if we're putting the card before the courts in this matter.
The uh Mr. Callie uh wrote to us mentioning a complaint from the bureau. The complaint came from the construction officials. Okay. It has nothing to do with this board. My suggestion is that this board respond
and say you receive a complaint from the construction official. It is not the business of this board. We suggest you pursue with construction official and if at some point down the line this board is called upon to make an interpretation
or they wish to make an amendment to their site plan or they want to come back to us and say anything they want to say then perhaps at that time they can do that. But right now this is between them and the construction.
board judge. This board has nothing to do with with this particular issue at this particular moment. Thank you. Your call. Well, that's why when I saw this come across, I asked Kathy to send uh
correspondence to you and and Mr. Rego that before any letter goes out, I'd like to be a part of that because I did not want to take any kind of board action because I didn't think it was our position. I think it just should go right back to the the permit department
and zoning and let them take care of their business. Correct. Yeah. Okay. So, that's the way I'd like to handle it. And Mr. Rego. Got it. You can now send that letter over to them to state just that this is not our issue. You have to straighten it out with them.
Do they have this already? This was sent to the Bureau of Work. Does who have it? The construction board? Yes, they do. Okay. Sharon, I have a draft response. I'd be happy to share that with every
Okay. I would I would like that. Okay. Stating what you just said. Yeah. Exactly. Yeah. We We got to We have to keep our business our business. When we take the overflow, it becomes crazy. We have to
take care of what we do or it becomes your business, right? And we don't want it our business. We want to stay in our lane. Okay. Um, enough with that. Okay. Okay. Next, uh, correspondence. We received an email from Mr. Frank Neri
requesting the following applications be dismissed without prejudice. Application 24 010 720 Boulevard and 7:30 Jefferson Avenue. Okay, Kevin, I think you should take the helm here. Chairman, these two
properties were the subject of two separate applications to this board dating back to last perhaps November. They were deemed and completed at the end of December. Uh I had been in contact with the
applicant asking for updates. Uh as of a month ago, we had received none despite repeated requests. I suggested at that time that either submit what's required
or the board may take action to deem these applications um to deny them without prejudice because they're on the books. But it would be best if the applicant were to advises
the applicant advises that they no longer wish to pursue these applications. My understanding is that there were court actions concerning this. They are separate and beyond this board. So whatever they are will
continue or not as they desire. But we do not have these two applications on our books anymore. Okay. The board would be asked to uh pass two resol two resolutions denying the applications without prejudice so they can take further
action as they wish. Okay. So, what we would need to do as a board, we would have to have a motion to um dismiss this application on both of these applications uh without prejudice. Is that correct? Okay. Is there a
Does the board understand that? Yeah. It can be done through motion vote or you need a resolution? Both. Best to do a resolution because it was the subject of a tool application. I do this before. Do a motion vote. I get that. But then do we even need to
take a resolution? I'm sorry. A motion and a resolution would be in order. Sheriff, thank you. So, is there a motion to dismiss both of these applications without prejudice? Some moved by Mr. David, second by Mr.
Somebody out there, Clemente. Okay. And that's for application. We'll call it 2410 720 Boulevard. And all in favor or let's take a roll call. No. Roll call.
Um, Mr. Perno. Yes. Mayor Carlo. Yes. Mr. Reese? Yes. Mr. David? Yes. Mr. Clementi? Yes. Mr. Pantina? Yes. Mr. Mazio? Yes. Mr. Lawy? Yes. Mr. Kella? Yes. Mr. Grimaldi? Yes. And Mr. Plesi.
Is there a motion uh to dismiss without prejudice application 2409730 Jefferson Avenue? Moved by um Oh my god. Mr. Plesi, you need a name tag. And seconded by Mr. David. Roll call, please.
Mr. Perno, yes. Mayor Carlo, yes. Mr. Screece, yes. Mr. David, yes. Mr. Clementi, yes. Mr. Mr. Pantina, yes. Mr. Mazio, yes. Mr. Leowy, yes. Mr. Clea, yes. Mr. Grimmaldi, yes. And Mr. Plesi. Okay. So these resolutions will be
presented to us uh for our September meeting. Correct. Okay. All right. Next item. Is that all Kathy? The next is a presentation. Okay. Okay. Next we have a presentation. Uh it's our fourth round housing element
and fair share housing plan. Mr. Ma uh uh from Harbor Engineering. [Music] Thank you, Mr. Chairman. The director Michael Mstretta from Harvard Consultants licensed professional planner offices at
320 North Avenue East Cranford, New Jersey. I am here tonight as the Burough's affordable housing planner to present the fourth round affordable housing plan. I have a handout that I'd like to circulate. And the handout I'm
circulating is a summary of the same document that is currently posted on the bureau's website. The burrow the plan is the public is uh interested in reviewing the document. It's available to the public. Hard copies have been provided
to both the burough clerk and the burough planning board. So we have hard copies of the document in the building. We also have electronic copies on our website. So if anybody has any questions about what I'm presenting tonight or think about and have a question, it's
available to everybody to review. Um with your permission, I'd like to hand out one handout. Absolutely copy. So let's see how far goes. Yes, we have it. Nice. Thank you.
Thank you, Mayor. Rich's backyard. It's actually my not my backyard because you would have seen the pina colada. question Airbnb. I was okay. Okay, that's
trucks. Yeah, thank you. For the record, I've just handed out a PowerPoint that is just a summary of the plan. I'm just going to go over a rather long and complicated document. The PowerPoint is designed to summarize it as best I can and put it
into as simple terms as I can. Also, um you Thank you. First page is just our cover sheet. And then the second slide, I have the presentation broken down into four sections.
History of affordable housing, fourth round affordable housing obligation calculation, overview of prior round obligation, our and our proposed fourth round compliance. And then I'm available to answer any questions that anybody has.
Slide three is the history section. We broke the history section down to one slide. and a lot of information condensed on one one paper. As most people are aware, the mount one decision, the first mount roll decision
was passed in 1975. We just passed the 50 year mark. So it is 50 years in uh of court cases, legislation and so forth that is broken down behind that below.
1985, the New Jersey state legislature passed the Fair Housing Act, which created COA, the Council on Affordable Housing, which adopted a series of regulations and rounds. The prior round was 1987 to 1999. The third round was
1999 through June 30th, 2025, which is next Monday, concludes the third round. I'm here tonight to present the fourth round plan which starts next Tuesday, July 1st, 2025 and is a 10-year period. It extends
through June 30th, 2035. Each round is a 10-year period. However, if you look at the third round, you're wondering why is it greater than 10 years? Because the gap years are folded into the third round. That was the
period of time when the COA legislation was going back and forth with series of rules that were continuously amended and never passed through state legislature. So it created an expanded period of time
until the MO decision was issued in 2015 which created the gap year plus the third round. So you have a larger time period. I'm here tonight because on March 20th, 2024, Governor Murphy signed amendments to the Fair Housing Act,
which establish the rules for the Fort Brown, which quickly going to walk through in the next slides, which is fourth round affordable housing calculation. The report that again is available to the public and hard copies are on file
goes into great detail of how these numbers are derived and calculated. I'm not going to take up your time tonight and go through all of the variables and all of the nuances of the multipliers. So I just simplified it on this slide
just to give everybody a highle overview. Our fourth round we're first of all we are in housing region two to be very clear afford in the affordable housing world you're not working within the boundaries of a municipality or the
boundaries of a county you're working within the boundaries of a region we're in region two so we're in region together with Essex County Morris County and Warren County so when the numbers
are calculated and and they are assigned that's they're assigned throughout region 2. Our number for Burough County is then calculated as long along with every other municipality is calculated by
three multipliers, three variables and equalized non-residential valuation factor. What does that mean? In fact, essentially it means how much what's the value of your nonresidential properties in your burrow compared to the property
value of other housing regions, other municipalities in your region and how much have they increased over the years at the summit. It's more complicated than that, but that's essentially how you drive that
variable. The next variable is income capacity factor which measures the degree to which a municipality's median household income differs from the income floor of the lowest medium income housing in its
region. So essentially the wealth of our burough versus the wealth of the municipality that has the lowest level in our region not in our county but in our region. Number three is the land capacity factor. How much available land do we
have remaining in our bur which report goes into great detail to show you that and as everybody knows we're substantially built out municipality very little vacant developable land remaining. So
our number of acres in that variable is very low and it's again spelled out in detail in the report. Next slide. Average allocation factor. This just breaks down those numbers one step further. Housing region 2. The
perspective need as calculated by the Department of Community Affairs DCA is 20,56. That's the regional perspective need. That's how many affordable housing units
the department of the DCA has calculated using those multipliers I just went through that our housing region requires for the fourth round. Then it's divided down broken down by municipality based on those three variables. And we
conclude that the DCA has concluded that Kennaworth's fourth round present need is 35 and Kennorth's fourth round prospective need is 208. Present need is the rehabilitation of existing units
serving the low moderate households. Prospective need is generally known as new construction. Those are the new units that we are responsible for providing. We don't really need to provide 208 for a whole host of reasons. I'll hit
the highlights. One, we don't have any land or very, very, very little vacant land. So, we qualify for what's called a vacant land analysis. That lowers our number substantially. But if you don't have a lot of land, how
do you address your number? How do you put a plan together? You're required to come up with mechanisms as a municipality that recognizes you don't have a lot of vacant land yet you still have this constitutional obligation. So
what you do, we create what's required what's called overlay zones and we have three of those in our plan. I'm going to go through one at a time. The next slide is the timeline. uh 2005
Kennaworth housing development fair share plan timeline. This all as I said Governor Murphy signed amended fair housing act in March of 2024 which amen and then the DCA released their calculations those numbers I just
went through for our obligation for round. The DCA report had a calculation of 208 for Kennaworth for its prospective need and that was based on 4.65 acres of developable land. That's
one of the variables I just spoke of. The Burough Council then on January 15th, 2025 adopted a resolution committing to that number of that number of 208. So that then sent us to the
court to get a quarter of memorial lives which was adopted on March 27th, 2025. And then we started preparing this plan. We had a couple of Zoom meetings uh in April, April 16th and April 23rd where
we talked through the outline of this plan. And the plan was filed in advance of tonight. It was filed on June 13th, which is more than 10 days prior to tonight's meeting. The plan was also
filed with the office of planning advocacy at the state as required. A hard copy as well as a hard copy sent to the Union County Planning Board. Notices were circulated to the clerk's hall for joint municipalities and the plan has been posted on our
website. So, we also have it available for the public both our planning board and our clerk. So, we've covered all of our notice requirements, hard copy, electronic copy. Under this law, under this amended house fair housing act law,
every municipality in New Jersey is required to adopt their fourth round housing element fair share plan prior to June 30th of this year. Again, June 30th concludes the third round. It want the law requires new plans to be in place
prior to July 1st. So by adopting this plan tonight, the town will be in compliance with the new amended fair housing act. The next step after tonight is the council would have to endorse a resolution.
The council would adopt a resolution endorsing the planning board's resolution in support of this plan. Those two resolutions along with the hard copy of the plan are then submitted down to GC hard copy through a portal
and it will be evaluated over the summer months July and August. The next significant deadline is the last day of August. I just say September 1st. Any comments, critiques, challenges, edits, suggestions
by either pressure housing center, New Jersey builders association, any interested party, the court, special adjudicator, so on and so forth would respond with their comments to this report
by the end of August. There's a series of additional deadlines that extend out through June of 2026. I'm not going to go through all those. They're all very well detailed in the plan. I just want to assure the planning
board one thing. I know this feels like it's rushed and that we have to hurry up and get this plan tonight, but the plan itself is about 50 60page document. It's a very long document. Attached to that plan are a series of draft ordinances. I
have three of them with me tonight printed out. I'm not going to start pulling them out going through them. But if I can draw your attention to anything in this plan as I go through this, I just want to assure you the plan these ordinances are all in draft format.
All right. And this is where we're going to start our work over summer on editing, preparing, and finalizing these ordinances. We are required, every municipality is required under this new regul, new
law that we, every municipality have attaches a draft of their zoning ordinances to this document. Recognizing that this planning board hasn't had the opportunity to go through line by line of those ordinances, I just want to assure everybody they're draft council
is going to review, planning board's going to review them. There is a time frame that we're going to have to as a group go through those ordinances and adopt them officially through council and planning board. The final date of the adoption
is not until March. I think it's 15th of 2026, but there's a lot of work that has to be done. basically wait for the challenges or any comments by September 1st and then we start working on these ordinances and adopt them and file them
by March of 2026. Next slide is the overview of the prior round. One slide golf president round fair share obligations. Again, I've got the three rounds 1987 to 1999. Our obligation was set at 83
units. Our third round obligation 1999 and 2025. Our obligation is 271. Our fourth round need our perspective need which I've gone through tonight is 28. So the total is 562. The plan addresses
the fourth round 28. Fourth round compliance. How did we do this and what are the mechanisms? This is what everybody wants to talk about or think about. There's a map that's called summary of affordable housing plan. You'll see essentially three colors.
reports I should say on this map and those are the areas where we're either putting a development or an overlay and I'm going to go through one at a time. The first one is the red area which is the redevelopment plan that we have in
place for 25 North 26th Street. That's the red area that's highlighted on your on your plan and that's already located within a green area which is one of our three overlay areas. What's an overlay area? We're a vacant
town. We don't have any land. We have this very large housing obligation. We're required as a municipality to put zoning mechanisms mechanisms in place that would collect affordable housing units and credits as those properties
are developed into three areas. I will go through one at a time. First, we have what's called our RDP project, real estate development potential, which is the 25 North 26 Street redevelopment plan. This is a
project that was already gone through the redevelopment study phase, the redevelop redevelopment plan phase, both adopted by council and the site plan phase as part of our planning board resolution adopted April 14th, 2022.
That site plan as approved would would collect 25 affordable housing units towards our obligation. Next are the proposed forground unmet need mechanisms. These are the areas of
the town that are already developed. We recognize they're not vacant. And what we're saying as a municipality is as three three areas of the town are further redeveloped either through reszoning, redevelopment or use
variances or site plans in front of the planning board. Should the developer elect to submit a plan that includes housing, we would have a set aside to collect
those units as those properties are developed. I just want to underline one thing. I'm going to go through the three overlay areas. It is not mandatory. It's an overlay that sits on top of the underlying existing zoning. So any
property owner out there in any of these overlay areas I'm about to walk through is not obligated to only build housing moving forward. It's an option. It's an overlay that sits on top of the existing zoning. So that underlying existing
commercial industrial uses can continue uninterrupted and new applications can continue to come before the boards and be approved and redeveloped as currently zoned without the housing
if they choose. But this is an option. It's called an overlay. First one is North Michigan Avenue quarter overlay. The properties are highlighted in red on the slide. In the plan itself, it goes very great detail of the lot, block lot,
street addresses of the property. So, if you want a lot more detail, you can take a look at the maps, figures, tables in the plan itself. This one slide just covers this overlay area. The draft ordinance I spoke about that is attached to the appendix of the
plan calls for an overlay density of 20 residential units per acre should somebody want to choose to build multif family housing in this area. There's a 20% set aside and theoretically if every
single property were to be redeveloped with that density with that set aside we would collect 16 affordable housing. It's not required. It's an option. Second one is the market street overlay
zone. There's 17 properties in this in this overlay zone. Collectively it's 12.48 48 plus or minus acres all based on tax map and GIS data not individual surveys draft overlay
zone ordinance attached to your plan that calls for 18 units per acre of multifamily housing again as an overlay on top the existing zoning. Should that should every one of those properties be built out at that density with the 20%
set aside meaning that there's 100 acre units, 100 unit development. 80 of those units would be market rate. Developer can rent them out or sell them at any rate, any number he wants. 20% of those or 20 out of 100 would have to be
derestricted and set a spot set aside for low, moderate, very low affordable households. A lot of detail on the income levels, rent levels, all that is addressed within the plan itself. highly regulated, be restricted, has to be
affirmatively marketed. Can't just give to your friends or anything like that. Has to be marketed against anybody within the region. We would collect 45 portable units in that area. The third and final area is
the former national pool site overlay zone. Five collected properties totaling 4.33 acres with an overlay density of 15 units per acre. If the entire site would re be redeveloped with multifamily housing at
that density, the bur would collect a potential 13 affordable units. Finally, summary of plan. My last slide. Try and capture all of the numbers for you on one slide. Again,
our portra obligation is 208. How how does our plan intend us to adjust that number? We have one redevelopment plan from 25 to 26 street. We get 25 affordable housing units out of that inclusionary project and we get
six bonus credits. That's 25% of the 25. So, we pick up six additional bonus credits. Bonus credits are incentives provided by the state parking towns to use redevelopment of older sites to
create projects. So, not really building one for one. You guys are just our number. So, we pick up 31 total credits out of that one project. And like I said before, George Michigan Avenue overlay zone would produce 106. Market Street overlay
zone would cruise 45 and the former national pool oversight overlay zone would cruise 13. The maximum number of bonus credits that we can get throughout the entire fourth round is 52.
So again, we're not building 28 affordable housing units. 52 of those could be bonus credits. There's five pages on bonus credits outlining how you achieve those in a plan. It's well documented if you're interested. The use
of redevelopment is one of them. So after the six that we collect on the first project, we're available for 46 more. Now, if a project were to come in front of the burough council or your board or any other
area of the town not addressed in this plan and is approved for multifamily housing, the plan has the default mechanism that's called a mandatory set aside ordinance. So, if a project comes in that's approved by this board or a redevelopment project approved by
council that is outside of any area identified in this plan, the mandatory set aside ordinance automatically kicks in and we as a burrow would collect 20% of those units have to be affordable housing units destricted in that
development. I say to be determined because I don't know if we're going to get any more of those projects. We can get one, we can get two, we can get none. So I I don't have a fixed number that we would collect a mandatory set aside or that's a blanket ordinance
throughout the entire that's my presentation. I appreciate your time. Mr. Mr. If I may. Um when you talk I didn't see that. When you talk about um the other areas, is
there a uh amount of units that this um fair share housing plan would kick in? Is it six and above? Is it 10 and above? Or is it two, three, five or above? Five or above? Yes, sir. Okay. And in
uh you have to give me a minute. and in the overlay zones in those areas where uh maybe a developer comes in and let's say he's in the middle middle of Market
Street as long he designates that area industrial can still be on the left and the right and it can go up in that area. Yes, sir. Okay. Um, you could ask a question.
You want me to ask? You want me to ask? No. Okay. So, let me let me Does the board have any other questions? You want me to ask? Yes. 30% of our obligation have to be addressed by age restricted housing. 30%
of our numbers. They would have to follow that. Now, it used to be used to be 25%. That's one little carrot that they gave pounds in the fourth round. It was always 25% of your number. In the fourth round, they increased it to 30%.
Would that be 30% of the 20% that is to be that lower rate or at the market? Yes. It' be 30% of your total, you know, obligation. 30% of 208
30% of our total number can be addressed by the industry houses but 208 market rate 208 is the low income rate 208 is our fourth round
affordable housing obligation that means low very low moderate housing so quick math based upon what you handed the town would have to come up with 819 units to be able to come up with and 20%
that be 19. Uh, not necessarily. Number one, you immediately take the 208, you immediately subtract 25%. You can achieve 25% of your number through tot
that remain number and if you plan on going into a lot of detail on it the town could some of your obligation through group homes or uh those specialty housing in those cases
mechanisms where just say you had a group home, you had special needs unit come in and have four or five bedrooms, you get one credit per bedroom, not per unit.
So, but those are exceptions. Those are both are absolutely and if you're still looking at it from that point you're taking 25% off and you take 25% off the 800 C
then still looking upwards of 600 units that were supposed to be able to place in a town that has no property and one of their designated areas I believe should have a chance to correct that Mr.
remolding before we get to 12. This town is under no obligation to build 800 units of town, right? We're not, as I said, we're call we're not prop land municipality. We do not we
recognize that we don't have any state recognizes that we don't have vacant land. We're not a western western Jersey has acres and hundreds of acres of developable land for housing. So we fall
under a threshold of what's called vacant land. So they recognize that what happens your numbers broken down into two phases called RDP the real estate development potential that is a project that the
redevelopment plan on that's already been approved perfect example 256 street that falls into the category of based real estate development approved by planning board yeah
There's herbs, perman. [Music] All of our own fall into what's called undef. So, we put an overlay on top of the existing zones that we have already today.
those underlying property owners are not obligated to build housing. A burrow is not obligated to build housing. What it does is it provides an option that if you're in one of those three overlay areas
could develop housing after those ordinances are officially adopted come in. And where are those densities set by the state? They're set by my office through
conversations. We rated one cuz each of the sites several different and the one site that you have on this I believe about 20 years ago was designated for um senior houses. So if
that's already there on the book that would be one way it can get developed. That's correct. And I'll go further that as we work through and further add these draft ordinances, we want to put we've already put language in there that we don't want just should one of those
corridors and I'm only going to pick out the Michigan Avenue corridor just for starters, but you don't want should they all multif family or five in a row multif family. You don't want just multif family multif family multif family. So we require commercial,
retail, nonresidential on the first floor with apartments above it. So you don't apartment building, apartment building after one after another. We haven't gotten that far yet because we haven't officially adopted those businesses.
Understood. And Kevin, I understand. But we're getting presented with and I know he's explaining to us the exceptions and how you get from 208 to the 35 which is as he suggested the detail is in the
report that we haven't seen but based upon the 208 208 is in 20% of sorry 20% the 208 represent 208 is the 208 is our
number of of the low income. But the low income is a percentage of the total. Yes. Low as a as a as an affordable housing project is developed, it will be developed in many different ways. The most
usual way is either through a 100% affordable housing project where every unit in that development is below 100 plus. And they're very rare. They are rare or an inclusionary housing project where there's a set aside as we have
over on the redevelopment plan. That was a 15% set aside. We're increasing it to 20% set aside. Those are the two most common methods. A lot of towns use
group homes also for special needs housing. That's becoming essential demand for it. And there are additional bonus credits provided. So that's becoming more and more popular. There's groups that specialize in that type of housing. But those are those are the top
two 100% affordable and inclusionary. And then underneath that group homes and special needs housing. I will put those four in the top categories. But those numbers the 35 or 208 represent percentages of projects.
The 208 is not a percentage. 208 is our fourth round constitutional obligations through 2035 208 that's 208 that's our respective need that's our housing at that four I
start taking any percentages reduction yes that 208 is of as Kevin said low moderate or direct the numbers are I don't want to get too granular tonight but the everything I'm talking about these the numbers are really broken down
further into three subcategories. Yes, those three subcategories are moderate income, low income, and very low income. So, and then each one there's certain income thresholds or whether it's one family member all the way up to eight
family members as far as maximum income of that family in that particular unit for that particular subset of income category. Very low low get my point that they're percent as you said the 26 street has%
so that number would be a percentage of the overall the 208 or 35 depending under exceptions would actually end up getting a lot more units if they got felt obviously absolutely yes understood
Mr. Mr. I have a couple of questions with that going back and forth just starts to raise them all. So if you have 13 affordable units set aside on a particular property particularly national tour
did I understand correctly that um that is your 20% number and in that 20% number it is it could be affordable low income moderate income and very low
income within that 20% within the 13 variable So it could be that whole range. Is that correct? Yes sir. It's required. Those those are all state regulations. We have no saying those whatsoever. But it's all the it's
all under the uh hack regulations. Moderate low very low income of those 13 units. If I am a developer and I want to do something is the percentage negotiable? Can I come in and say, "Listen, I could
do this, but I I I can only do 12%." No. Well, it's I strike strike that once those ordinances are adopted by our council. That's it. That's it. Now, do they come in here and ask you for a variance, a waiver, or or
or go to the council and ask for a reduction? Uh, anything's possible. I don't see a justifiable reason because it's going to be on our books. saying that's how we're going to address it. So I would say the 20% is not going to move. What I do see
in some towns is a 20% increases. Okay. So So I would like to focus on um I guess it's called the pink area on 12th Street National Tool. If if I look at the entire map, um I don't have a real
problem with anything off let me choose my words wisely on the outskirts of town where the the 26th street and the market street in the industrial area that one national tool is 4.33 acres which
represents 15 units per acre. 60 plus units and that that's right dead center of town. Is there an adjustment that we could make to not have that particular
overlay zone there uh and have it in another location? I I would my my strong recommendation would be that the plan is adopted as it
is and then we have period of time over the summer. If you wanted to switch out an area, a needed area and then put a different area that would provide at least the same amount of
units should be developed. That would be an opportunity to do it then. is out by Route 22. I think I think I from what I just heard I think you're saying we need to it would be prudent to adopt
the plan as it sits so we could meet the criteria and at that point we have a couple of months I guess you said August 30th up to that point the major thresholds are September 1st last day of August September 1st for all the
comments to come back I would love to see what comments if any we get from that list of groups that I mentioned and at the same time we have these draft ordinances again not only draft but we have to make them official and that
would be an opportunity but I think it's saving money time and resources that we have like our report how did we do what's the comments we take those comments and then we also look we could all right let's remove this site add a
different site all at one time. Okay. Mr. Grimmaldi, you had something. I was just going to point uh the section that you pointed out again was the one that I believe this board approved as
senior housing about 20 25 years ago. Not this board, but the plan. Well, not the members of this board. Okay. So, we could look into that, but I I I think, you know, my my question was a valid question and the answer was spot
on. We could if we need to do something and we have to meet it. It's it's not him saying, "Hey, this is a great idea." This is what we're being told. And more or less, I again this plan is I want to encourage one more thing. I know we're under this
deadline, self deadline. These plans are not etched in stone and that's it. can't change for 10 years. These plans are are expected to be amended, changed, expanded, modified, if you will. Other properties
are better suited. You're allowed to amend your plan. The only thing I'll come back to and tell you is this is the threshold. All right? We have a better site that's more suited for age restricted housing in our town rather than this one. We can make an argument
to remove it, but we need to replace it, fold it back into the plane. Okay. Kevin, did you have something? I saw you shaking your head this way and then this way, and I didn't know if you were Simon says, do this.
Mr. Chairman, uh, Mr. M strata has done a wonderful job of summarizing a document that has to be adopted uh before the 30th of June which is next month. So therefore there's not a lot of options available to this board at this
moment other than to present a housing element to the state that's been endorsed by the burough council. However, as Mr. Mred has also pointed out there are a number of things that are in draft
that can be changed in the near future. I would point out this board is no doubt aware that this board has not been consulted about this plan uh since it was started by the council in December.
This plan was prepared without any input from this board. No doubt the board is aware that we've already approved one affordable housing unit on the boulevard in the Dunkin Donut side. No doubt this board is aware that over the last 10
years we have been trying and in our resolutions demanding the collection of affordable housing funds. And as we have learned over the last year or two, some of those were ignored, but we
nonetheless have over $80,000 in the bank thanks to the diligence of this board. And perhaps over the next few months, the burough council, who is in charge of this, and our mayor will see fit to let the planning board be
part of this planning of this document so that your voices can be heard and guide this as only you can because you're the experts in land use. You know this bur. You know the es and flows of applications.
Thank you, chair. You're welcome. Thank you for that. Mr. Mer questions of the 500 plus cumulative units from including the previous. Very good question. You're
each each round of affordable housing in New Jersey get two numbers. You get a present which is your rehab obligation. that rehab obligation goes to zero at the end of each round when you're assigned a new number. That's one. The
prospective feed, which is I I commonly refer to it as new construction, that's what everyone really paying attention to. That's 208. That's our 208 for this round. With your perspective numbers, perspective need
numbers. They do not zero out at the end of playing or end of a cycle running around cumulative. They just keep adding on top of each other. And 10 years from now, despite having no land, you're
going to get another number and that's going to just how No, it's okay. How firm is this deadline? Do we get an extension on this deadline? July. I mean, the council hasn't even seen this plan. We don't even have a
meeting till July. I mean, I don't know. The first time I'm seeing this is tonight, [Music] right? So, I mean, I don't see how it could even happen by July 1st. We don't even
have a meeting till July 3rd. I defer to I have to defer to our affordable housing attorney um on the deadlines because they all been doing part of this process. I don't see how it's possible.
I mean, I'm looking at this for the first time tonight. It's um June 24th. Our next meeting is July 3rd. July 2nd, sorry, July 2. What are the penalties?
I don't want to start speaking as an attorney. Um, one thing is you lose any immunity that you have the immunity protection out of compliance which is pretty significant. But I want to stop there and I'll defer to your four
attorneys that Mr. Galdi, you said that um Kathy or the uh clerk, they have copy of the full report. Yes. As do you. One was sent by Miss Machine
last week. Yes. Everybody Everybody did get this last week. Okay. Everybody got it. This is not We're for a better term choice of words, we're not blindsided here. We got this report. But we did get it Monday. Yeah, I think it was sent out on
the 13th. No, I'm sorry. This or the full 300 plus page full report. Okay. Mr. Mreda, as a courtesy to this board, send out his outline to us this afternoon so you would see what his presentation was.
I applaud him for his cooperation. Yeah. So, um, did does the governing body get this as well? You have to say that it has to go to the governing body. That's what I'm saying. We only have we have a meeting on July 2nd. That's up to Mr.
I'm sorry. It's nothing to do with this board. It's up to Mr. Serenian. It's his problem. It's a planning board document. This is the housing element of master. It's a planning board document that's approved by the planning board by resolution.
The law says then needs to be endorsed by council. Okay. And whether or not whether or not if the planning board approves the plan adopts the resolution and the
council doesn't adopt the endorsing resolution until July 1st or any date past June 30th. I'm not touching that question. That's a legal question and I don't want to I'm not sure of that answer.
Okay. Does everybody you guys understand us? Everybody understand what we're confronted with? Mayor Chris, mayor of the council, this is the first time you guys are understanding this existing. You had a vote for this by the end of the month.
Yeah, we don't have a meeting until the 2nd of July. That's our next meeting. Special meeting. So, why don't we just do our obligation, right? I think I think the planning board has to stand on its own feet and do what the
planning board does. If the packet is before us now and we saw this, which I read through, not all 361, but I did read through. Uh I I'm thinking that everyone else did the same. I can't
speak for the governing body. We can only speak for the planning board as we said that uh a million times. What's in front of us is the diligence that we have to perform um to meet a criteria. So, uh, I I think that's where we need
to stand. If the deadline is first before the council meeting, we can't control that. If they fe deem it fit to have a special or if they deem it fit that the attorney says no, we have that 7 days grace because the days fell
like this or there was technical issues, that can't be our problem. Did I miss something? Where where does it say that the council has to adopt the endorsing resolution by July 1st in the amended fair housing act?
Okay. So it's not on this time anymore goes back to last year's uh legislation March. Yeah. Which it seems very unreasonable if we have till the 30th to adopt what we need to adopt. that gives that
they don't they have to see that we've adopted before they can turn and basically have 24 hours to do it. Everybody's had these dates since March of 24. The fact that we are being presented
with this document on this date is not our choosing. It is someone else's choice. Our obligation is to adopt a housing element by June 30th if we wish to be in conformance with the state
legislation. If we choose otherwise, we can as a court. That's up to you. Yeah. I'm not suggesting any of that. I'm just saying that in most cases things tend to get done toward the end of timelines, not just in kennel roof
everywhere. And so the fact that the state would allow 24 hours to for the board assuming the board does it any board does it on the last day in June 30th and then the endorsing document has to be done the very next day is completely ridiculous but that's just a
commentary on our legislators. Can I hear from Councilman Greece? Um there was a court case basically invalidating for housing professionals. It may take it back.
I'm sorry. I I couldn't hear him. There's a recent case as best we can talk a little louder. I'm sorry. Yeah, we're having trouble. I think the mic don't work. I don't know if that one worked. Doesn't sound. So just there was there
was a recent case I believe this is what we're referring to about a year or two ago this that was circulated yet invalidating the directive the directive that boards were being municipalities were being held to
was not only did you have to adopt this housing plan before June 30th but municipalities also had to adopt the governing bodies had to fully adopt every ordinance and redevelopment study
and redevelopment plan that created a zoning mechanism for affordable housing and identified within the plan. So you added all your zoning the ordinances redevelopment studies redevelopment plans fully approved and attached as an
appendix to the plan that you have tonight. what this law said and everybody challenged that because there the amended fair housing act does not say that but then a directive came out afterwards that said you had to do that.
So there's a conflict in rules in the law and the directive in the law that went to court and they issued legis decision saying that that's not accurate. You only have municipalities only have to adopt the plan itself prior
to June 30th and then the deadlines that are in the embedded fair housing act that extend out to March of 2026 remain in place for adopting all the ordinances. Okay. for um question. If um up to the
builder, if they decide to do senior housing, you can't say, "Hey, well, if you're going to build, we want senior housing." We're allowed as a municipality, we have our obligations. We're allowed as a municipality to say, "This is where we want our age restricted housing, and this is where we
want our market rate housing." So, we we can differentiate. We can't use senior housing to all of our obligations. Not for all. Excuse me.
Okay. Um, anyone else? I'm sorry. 300 pages. I said our vote yes or no. Let's move on. Thank you, Mr. Lady. Mr. I I would agree. We're um as Kevin said,
this is not what we're doing, but we're we're in this position. I think we're charged with doing what we have to do, but per our conversation before this meeting started, um I think we're definitely going to need to have some
type of meeting so that we can discuss this before the September 1st obligation if we want to make any kind of recommendations. What? Wait a minute. What do you mean we need to have a meeting before when the I'm sorry, Mr. Mreda?
Mr. said that the next time that we have to we have the opportunity to get any recommendations, the mayor suggested something about uh North Michigan, which I think from our master planning, we already had
mentioned something of those areas, but if we want to make any of those comments, we have to get it probably to him well before September 1st so he can organize it and put it in before the September 1st deadline. If we don't have
a meeting before then, how are we going to do that? Mr. O'Brien, it may be best, chairman, to let the process run its course at the council level and let's hope and pray that they inform us of how the ordinances will be
drafted and hope and pray that they include us in that discussion. And then we have to wait for them. If we're included, wonderful. If we're not included, we have to wait for them to present them to us and at that point we
can have our say in what they are. So am I understanding correctly that this map that you drew we can make changes to this? Yes. By September 1st. I would after my opinion would to wait till after
September 1st so we don't spend any we just I would wait and see what type of response that we get so that if I do a report and I know it's going to be judged and critiqued by I'm making this up five groups could be one it could be
more I would like to see what those critiques are those comments are and then I'd also have more feedback from the planning board and then my recommendation which will be post September 1st after Labor Day reconvene with everybody's comments and amend it
one time. To summarize your you would say go through the process. Let's get this done. We we we meet the compliance and we understand where we're going from there and we still have enough of time to to reconvene. So you don't need a a meeting before September.
I do not need a meeting before September for this topic. Okay, I got a lot of hands. Mr. Pantina, it's all good. Mr. Pantina, I just want to say that I agree with the other members said and I think we
should, you know, vote on it. Um, but I have to ask you something because responsibility to the fair housing council and I come around say I'm just saying is that what do you
think over him but how accurate do you think that he would be if he I have to ask you to speak up. We can't hear you council. I I I would be I think it would be a lot. I think he would be yelling about loud.
Okay. So, so in my other I've heard this already and I've heard Mr. Serenity when you mention Mr. Serenity, he's the fair council for city of living also and he very adamant about June 30th about getting that that plan in whether it's
going to be adjusted or not about getting that that plan in. And I'm not saying that we have to do that. I'm just saying that knowing Mr. Rain who is that guy and getting those numbers in. And I believe
Mr. O'Brien said it sh is that um it's not necessarily about fines or penalties, but if you miss the June 30th deadline, the municipality becomes open to lawsuits. Right now,
you're kind of protected, right? You you lose your immunity, right? You're non-compliant town and you're open for whatever comes your way, right? That's just I just wanted to put that on the table. So, I got it.
Not as just make it available knowledge that Did you want to coail or were we all saying the same thing? I just want to ask you one thing. You said, you know, it may be looked at by one or five groups. In your mind, who are those people that are looking at? Number one, there's the
court. There's a judge assigned to the judge assigned to region, our region, and he's already reviewed our court. He's already issued a court order March 27, 2025. So we have the amended
fair housing act put in it abolished color removed color is gone council on the board of housing is gone it replaced co with what's called the program I did not make up these the program consists of seven retired
mural judges the only thing they do is mount moral for the last 50 years I'm not saying we're we are assigned to one of those seven retired Mount Laurel judges who this plan goes to on June 30th. That
Mount Laural judge is one. Number two, the Mount Royal judge assigned counter is assigned what's called a special adjudicator. Used to be called special master. Fourth round they changed it. They got a master. They include adjudicator. That person is a licensed
professional planner who does nothing but affordable housing in New Jersey. This report goes to that plan. So that's two. Number three is I'm not saying they will or they won't, but Share Housing
Center is one of the groups that has an opportunity. Their planners and their staff will review this plan most likely. Great. Number four, almost all the other municipalities, not cattle work, were challenged in
January on the numbers by the New Jersey builders association. That's four. Five, six, and above would be any interested party who has a property who wants to be part of the plan or
objects to the plan or hates the plan or critique. I don't know when. So those are five and it can be more. You're in a lot stronger position if the plan is adopted and we meet the deadline.
I would not at least my recommendation is to adopt the plan. See what transpires over July and August. Reconvene post Labor Day. get all the reports, critiques, comments,
criticisms, add the board's comments, council's comments, and put them all in the file. And then we sit down with the plan and figure out next steps. I can tell you that the next major step after that, if it's challenged is December 31st. If
there's a challenge, we have to the council's going to have to address that. So, we have 6 months, not 6 months, we have from September through December 31st. Okay. But when those come back, we shall have time to ask we or the governing
body whether they let us in or not. I have a question. Was anyone on the governing body these zones that you picked? Was this discussed with anyone on the governing body? Yes, there was there were two at least two Zoom meetings that I was on. Uh I
don't have a list of attendees with me, but who the governing I don't I mean I I on that chairman with all due respect that's not a board issue, right? I can give you
I can I can give you the group that were on that was on these meetings. The mayor is the mayor and she certainly is going to assert her authority, but this is not the spot for her. Okay. Um, if there's no more questions, um, as far as procedure is concerned,
because this is the first time I've had the pleasure of doing one of these, does this at all need to be open to the public? It does. Are you through, Mr. M? Okay. Um, would someone will be available for questions if there
are correct s? Yes. I make a motion to open the meeting to the public for comment on this matter. Okay. Motion made by Mr. David, second by Mr. uh who Clemente.
All in favor? I Okay. Is anyone from the public wishing to speak about this presentation and this uh fair share of presentation? No one. Seeing none, make a motion to close uh this matter to
the public. Yeah. Motion made by Mr. David, second by Mr. Grimmaldi. All in favor? Okay. All right. Uh, right now, uh, we heard everything. I It It sounded to me like most of us, uh, understood this and
we have to do our diligence. So, is there a motion to what is this? Approve the resolution or approve what are we approving here tonight? Adopt the resolution is prepared for the fourth round housing element. Okay. June 2025.
Exactly what he said. Made by Mr. Baldi, seconded by Mr. Pantina. Roll call, please. Um, Mr. Perno, yes. Mayor Carlo, Steve. Uh, Councilman Scarice,
we'll vote on you tonight. The resolution. The resolution. So, this resolution, just for an explanation, adopts the plan. Adopts the plan and then it goes to the governing body and then you do what it what you will. It adopts the housing
element as a document of the planning board. Um, college statement. Mr. David, yes. Mr. Clementi, yes. Mr. Pantina, yes. Mr. Mazio, yes. Mr. Mr. Kella,
yes. Mr. Grimmaldi, yes. And Mr. Pazy, yes. Okay. So, here we go. Your presentation was wonderful. My question was just trying to get more
than that. Mr. Mred has done an outstanding job under difficult situations and conditions and I think he is being employed. Yeah, very much so. Boy, could we have used a slideshow or something like that would have been so
much easier. This is Thank you very much. Thank you. Have a good night. Difficult job explaining where business is. Okay. Next. What are we up to? The application. New business. Is that right? Yeah. The front desk.
We're putting off to the application. Oh, we're not doing Durham. We're not doing Durham. Okay. So, um, that's the Durham resolution, isn't it? Yeah. Okay. So, um, Mr. David, earlier
we talked about the Durham resolution and we are not going to do that tonight. We're going to wait until the September meeting. Correct. It's all the way on the bottom. I missed it, too. Yeah. Yeah. Okay. So, in our workshop, we talked a little bit about this. So,
is there a motion to move the Durham resolution to the September meeting? Motion made by Mr. um Grimmaldi, seconded by Mr. Bley. All in favor? Okay, that's out of the way. New business, we have application 2408 front fencing
25 205 North 17th Street. Who's here for that? Kathy, we Okay. I'm sorry. We're always off the office. We don't plan anything progress in July. We have nothing except that resolution. So that resolution can hold until
September. Okay. Sir, why don't you identify yourself? Tell us who you are. Chairman, vice chairman board. Does he have to state his name? Yeah. Excuse me, sir. Wait. If I may. Yeah.
What you need to do is state your name and spell your last name for the record and then we can continue. Okay. The microphone doesn't work. So, yeah, you're going to have to project school. My name is
It is R O E R I G U E Z H A R R I S O N Harrison. Okay.
Sorry if Harrison. No Rodriguez. Is your first name Harrison? No. Okay. Okay. I'm sorry. Okay. Sure. Let me swear you in first. You could
raise your right hand. With regard to this application, do you swear the testimony you're about to give sh the truth? Thank you. And I'm assuming you're the applicant and you're the owner of the property. Yes. Okay. Christian.
Okay. You guys raise your right hand with regard to this and any other applications this evening. Be sure the testimony you're about to give. Show me the truth. I didn't do this. That's the second time you dropped your wallet.
I'm down. Thank God. You got your I'm sorry we keep interrupting you. Okay, you have the floor. Question. Yes, sir. [Music] Here.
These lights these lights go out. Yeah. [Music] Air condition so much better now. Yeah. Cool. Oh, it's okay. It's okay. Thank you. My name is Rodriguez Harrison. I stand
before you representing myself and my wife Rodriguez. We request a variance for a front yard fence or a home located at 205 North 17 Street. Thank you. Thanks. We are first time home owners who purchase our home in good faith. We
relied heavily on the builder's guidance and we discussed adding effects. When we reached out to builder, we were told it would be fine to add a front fence and no one was really aware of the ordinance prohibiting front yard fences or that a permit was needed. We were generally surprised to receive it was a violation.
We never had any intent to violate federal regulations. As new homeowners navigate complex systems, we acted in good faith with no balance. This fence is not just about aesthetics. My wife Miguel is a 100% permanently and fully disabled Air Force veteran of 17
years. She has served three overseas tours and returned from the beach with deep psychological wounds. She lives with PTSD and having vigilance and social environments. A physical barrier like offense, especially in the front yard where people can be able to pass frequently brings her peace and a sense
of security. It is a medical and emotional necessity, not just a preference to some groups that I may approach. Sure. for these copies. We can keep using
Quinton. Thank you. you see showing her showing her PTSD disability. Uh in addition, we have a letter from her therapist that was
talking about how this situation has been a hard stress from her home. Uh in addition, we have letter signed from our neighbor right next to us 2147 street uh in which there's
no issues with neighbors um and I believe uh the other page is a picture of the property I'm going to mark first letter A1 the
evidence the medical Thank you. No mark. No mark yet. A1. Um there's actually two letters. The neighboring fence support you can put in the file, but the law unless the neighbor is here, the law doesn't allow
us to consider this for or um letters of support or in opposition. or um uh things like that because they're not here to say yes or no or answer questions. But we can certainly keep the
letter, keep the picture marked at A2 and then A1 will be the uh the uh veterans affairs letter and letter from the counseling service. Okay. Okay,
Mr. Please send these electronically to any machine tomorrow. Thank you very much. So I mentioned medical necessity. Beyond that we live in close school
where traffic is fast and unpredictable for recycling days not account for our yard. There are straight caps. We see people living residents along without cleaning it up. The vessel has maintained cleanliness to privacy and security. Additionally, we understand the
legislative intent behind ordinance with beautifification likely to proliferation of unsightly chainling fences. We believe our well-maintained classic white fence actually enhances the neighborhood's appearance. Owning a home with white fence is a part of the
American dream. It represents care, stability, and pride worth property. Our fence is not an eyesore. It is almost by definition suitable the aesthetic ideals this morning was created to protect. We are willing to modify defense's placement as it is extended a bit too far for our liking and hope to help
satisfy the board's concerns. We are asking for a reasonable accommodation. The Fair Housing Act prohibits discrimination based on disability and encourages municipalities to provide necessary accommodations to allow individuals with disabilities use the enjoyment of their properties. In
this case, defense is an essential part of making a home safe and livable for me. We also know that in the previous case, application number 01-030 on December 20th, 2001, the board meant a similar front yard fence to a homeowner in town. That allegation
involved a negative fence that was found to enhance the neighborhood, particularly in comparison comparison to less attractive fencing. Like that advocate, we believe our fence has charm, fits the character of our street and presents no detriment to public good. We are willing as they were to adjust placement or highest need to
remain in alignment with the rural vision. We hope the board can weigh not only the technical aspects of this terrorist, but also the human ones. Our family did not accept the size of the law. We simply follow guidance and we complete. We are willing to adjust and we respectfully ask for the opportunity
to pertain especially important. Thank you for your time and consideration. Is that all the slides you have? Um slides I have unless I need to No, no, no. I I didn't know if that was you're done with that part of your presentation.
Yes. Any questions? Okay. Well, we see the fence, we see the house, and we know where you are. Okay. Okay. Does any board members have any questions? Question. Okay. Again, we have to speak up, guys.
Okay. Um I understand that are not allowed in the front yard. So in this case it would be the whole front of the house for the most part. Right. In this in this case it would be
the whole front of the house for the most part. Right. The area that's being fenced in. Yeah. Of the grass area. Yes. That's it. Mr. Grimmaldi. the way the fence is situated at the
moment. Am I your way? I didn't know that. I've seen through things. Um, the way the fence is situated today, it's I I would assume based upon the sketch and the pictures, it's on Township property.
Yeah. Right now, it's two stand. And when I went by the house, there's no fence at the bottom of the steps. Uh there's no fence protecting access to the front of the steps, correct?
No, there's the fence on the side. If someone walks up your driveway, they can walk unimpeded from the driveway to your front door unimpeded by the fence. Is it Vietnam. I'm sure the police and fires
will too, but right now it's not impeding anybody getting to your front. No, we know the closure. So, Mr. Mazio, did you buy contractor?
So, we sold to our builder. Um the builder currently was putting up 2011 right next to us and we said hey we're going to walk our fence at some point just security
right he told us it was your problem let him go and his team will take care of so when we let him know and his team took care of it guys from this one the most guidance I got was how much it was going to
And when the gentleman was doing it was two people, he told me that he was just going to set a little car little more in the tree so that I don't get into trouble. And I was just like, whatever that means. Cool. But um yeah, there was no permanent sign. There was no
Mr. Harrison. Who was the builder? When When you say your builder, did can we kill that light now? Are you done? Oh, yes. How do I look at blue? Very nice. Thank you. When you say the builder, did he build you that house as well?
You both. So, here's a gentleman who's a builder, has an LLC, and he didn't know enough to come up here to pull a permit. Okay. So, first let me start out, you know, I started out with that and I should have said, um, I appreciate and thank you for
coming up here tonight and your wife, thank you for her service and, uh, the disability I understand quite well and and we get that. The the problem here is is that you have a fence that need to
permit. There's proper setbacks that need to be taken and we need to look at that. Now, you also recited the American Disabilities Act, which also states, if you read further, that you need to comply with the rules and regulations of the burrow and the state and the town.
So, with that being said, we have to figure out how you as a resident of Kennallorth can be here comfortable and your wife can have a comfortable place to stay. Correct? Yes. And that's what's in front of the board tonight. So,
I need some help. You want me to ask master planning questions? Yes. Mr. Paris, did you also serve? No. Would it be your opinion [Music]
that this application would advance various purposes of municipal land use law such as accommodating residential uses, accommodating uh disabled populations, veteran populations
along those lines? would be your opinion as to whether or not this application has any impact upon your neighbors, you know, positive or negative. I feel like it doesn't. That's why we
have a nice letter which doesn't get us to just the fact that you know say hey what appears that wasn't
closer to today's letter and they said hey this this is not issue to you then appreciate you send your support if it is an issue then please listen Um they have any issues. Um our neighbors I believe is 207
wonderful people that didn't have any issues they closed the schools there she couldn't believe that we're going to do this in the first place. We got some great support from the neighborhood in terms of dealing with defense and it just feels like it
was something we never thought of. Of course, I think new home orders and did fence construction. So, I started reading all the ordinances and whatnot. Um, so it's just it's a tough place because if someone not let's say I didn't even know about
this still, but I talked to my builder and he gave me a team that said, "You want to do this? Great." They brought the permit. They brought the papers to you to say, "Hey, we can't proceed without doing XYZ." Then that but that didn't happen. So I'm doing it in
reverse order. The defense has been there for I think about 9 months now. uh haven't had any issues. We haven't had car is crashing because of no visibility. Um it's just it's been taken care of. It's so like right now it's
just working backwards because they have control over getting proper. So I feel like it doesn't affect our neighbors like I said and just feel. Do you see any detriment to the
neighbors or the neighborhood? I don't see any detriment. Do you see any advantages? Any advantages advantages for uh the neighborhood or for us? Both. Uh for us, I can say number one just when they just
messy windy days recycling where having the fence block people's cardboard is flying down from across the island has been nice. Uh when it comes down to um benefits for the community, I feel like increasing property values
um has a strong feel they're built to work off each other support. So that's why maintains that standard or enforce where we want to have visuals. We want something new fresh in
the system. So in an attempt to comprise the testimony not put any words in anybody's mouth any size. My understanding is what you're saying is that because of your
wife's service related disability that this fence according to her veterans administrative administration counselor is something that is medically necessary
in her opinion. is not just cancer reinforcing. She is diagnosed with pepper PTSD. She can't not stand social situations.
Restaurant knows it is sitting in a location. She can see the entire area of the restaurant. I start no idea how that license was. that I learned going with her how real is this and how it's a he's a constant
um buzz into prior just having events especially the school of people going by just kids and people just things are moving but it's just a sense of she come by what's going over here over here what she's doing come back it was just it
just she was never able to settle and living with her and with two days now and with her dog it keeps her focused something doesn't matter and not be distracted by
this. Should the board wish to treat this in a favorable fashion, uh would you be willing to submit proper application and if necessary adjust the fence so that it is the proper location? Yeah, definitely. Uh I we would
definitely want to do it as if we were doing this from scratch. We want to make sure everything is done correctly. We don't have problems. Have I said anything contrary to your intent? Have I said anything in terms of an
opinion other than putting facts on the table? Chairman. Well, thank you. Um, does anybody want to ask any questions or add to that? Yeah. Mr. Pantina first. A couple questions. I'm sorry.
Just speak up please don't um I also think what I'm sorry I have to ask this question but I have to ask this question. I asked a question about defense of the front court. Um most you said your wife um
um for quality of life purposes enjoys the security of the front yard being fenced off. Although I think Mr. Yes. Um
um I think a lot of people feel secure being um in the yard away from chaos outside. Um in which case attacking defense won't have a problem. Um does
she have does she have any solace there? I'm just asking the question. Not so precise. You're saying this in the yard is is permitted. Yes. The front yard where?
Yeah. The rear yard was was never a problem. Um the front yard is where we have that. First of all, we have better length and we have more space and
the backyard. It definitely gives her saw us there in the front yard. We have a porch. We have her chairs. She has her windows. During these service, she can sit down. She can do work. She can relax. She can see what's going on. And there's nothing just like
I I understand everything. I I really think um uh what you're proposing or what you're asking for um and right on the application not what you're asking for the personal
margin um we're asking could be verified um decided by the way that I'm just saying is that um and everything that Brian asked you was very good Um but the
one uh sh that I see here I'm just putting on the table is that um this request on personal hardship however uh and even though your neighbors are supportive of its awesome
um the potential of it is that it sets a precedent. So what about the other house that Mr. and told builder and other houses that I want a fence out front and it's got a I don't know justified reason
for it the board will be at that point in time to say for the applicant well we put one in I'm just saying and which then um may go
against the uh once future goals of of the master and another thing. So, I just wanted to put that out there. I mean, it's nothing against you or your family or someone's quality of life. It's just
that um tax understand that there has been president for veterans with disabilities in terms of them having state New Jersey despite local ordinances. um they work with the local
municipalities to make sure there is precedent for that. So I feel like you would be prepared to prepare this situation to say well how about the person next to you? Now the person next to you the person next to us did 17 years in the military doesn't have three
tours doesn't have 100% diagnosis disability. So to feel like that 30 to exception for those have exceptional people is not a heavy burden as there are few between um I understand where you're coming from. I feel like this is
a a doable um review because it's not become myself as a civilian. I am not going to be able to see this with people of my
circle amongst military members that I meet or scattered about the country then I can see exceptions and I appreciate your comment and I think because I possibly my question and your response to that is again more
information. Thank you. I I'm going to um pass I I'm very familiar with the street. Um just so if anyone on the board isn't this is a really busy street
when kids get out of school. Um it's parked up on both sides. I have many times parked on this street picking up my daughter um throughout the years. And there's no sidewalks on this street. So the kids do
run of course and people walk on the property as they have no other choice. They're not going to walk on the street and I just am thinking that could possibly create distress for this person
that lives there cuz I know how busy the street is at 2:45 to probably 3:15. Can you hear me? I can. Does everybody hear me? as everyone's saying. So, I just think maybe that's a
consideration that everyone should know. Um there's a lot of people people are parked on the street. They're walking on the properties to get in and out of the cars. Um people are loading their kids in obviously not on the street or the
traffic side of the street. So it could possibly cause I could see how that can cause distress to someone that it has is fearful of you know I don't know I don't know I don't want to say the wrong thing but
that has you know phobias about people and what's going on that side of the street and the sidewalk on the other side right I don't I don't believe people can walk in the street well I Don't walk on the street. That's
my point. They're working on a property, not Mr. O'Brien. Mr. Pentina's question speaks to precedence for the board's decision making process. Every application
stands or falls on the individual merits, individual specifics of each application. And each application has to meet the burden of proof individually. And just because a
property has a name, addition, fence, third floor does not mean that every other property is entitled to that unless they meet the burden approved and show you that there are specific
conditions and that specific property that would allow you to consider that. And that's your decision, no one else's. Okay. Um any any other part? So there's no parking. There's no parking on that side of the street. So
all the curves are yellow on that side. Yes. There's no park. That's been that way for years. No parking on the side. Can we Yes, sir. Respond to Oh, you could respond. Uh, so what you mentioned about the no
parking, there's no parking on the corners. So my neighbor's house 201 I think it's 203 that's also in yellow. Um, our block like the mayor mentioned uh from 2:45 on
very smart even though there's no parking. I used people pull up on pull on the property, wait for their kids, wait until like maybe like 20 minutes before my license card to us. No, just wait their house on then the kid comes in. There's a lot of a lot of it's just
it's kind of all the time. But you're you're right. It's not there's not supposed to be cars there to that capacity. And there was a time my neighbor was trying to leave her drive and she was boxed in by everybody who was put her kids and they were yelling at her when she was trying to leave. So
it's a very busy area during the school year which is excuse me I'm sorry Chris. Okay. What what I have to ask is everybody please just don't blurt out because then we can't hear it. We have this recorded.
If if you need to say something, let me address you so you could we could open you up. Okay. Chris, uh you mentioned you're you would be okay with relocating fence after the runway. Um based on the survey, it's 7 ft.
Yes. Survey. My first thought was really cool. So yes, whatever it takes to be in class actually. Thank you. What was that, Christian? 7 ft. 7 ft from the curb. Uh, no. From from the rideway to where
the edge of the fence is is 7 approximately 7 ft from the rideway like towards the municipal right now. Can you pull that up again? Yes, Mr. Ki. backyard is there's a sort of a chain
fence on the left side and um it's actually white in the back and on the right. So I decided to see that was
forget it. We going to you can pull that up for me. Okay. Let's just get that Um so you can see in the left side which is a chain fence which goes all the way back. Um the back of the property is
fenced as the right side. So it's kind of so it's just everything the back and the right side is the left side just Chris to your point is it this here piece would come back 7 ft. Yes. So these sections of fence are what? 5
ft 6 ft. Right. So that leaves you with a six that leaves you with a 6ft space in the front of that house at that section. Do you have another angle? Go. Yeah. Go to that one.
This is free. No. No. You got I thought you had another. So there's three panels here. So one panel is now six. Oh, you have the survey. So if you got Go ahead, tell me what's
left. Please tell us what's left from the front porch in that one space area. If they bring it back, if they bring the fence to the rightway, it will be 25 ft from the rideway to the front porch to the front porch.
doesn't look it doesn't mean that's why it's it's a different idea it's a deceptive angle but right now it's right now that they're at 30 goes 32 ft towards the okay is there any other questions so far
we can come back to it but what are they right on the rightway or does it still have to be a certain amount of other side of the right yeah Okay. So, okay. I'll answer the question. That's
all. Okay. Yes. Uh, Mr. Medical, Mr. I was going to I was going to get you. You um your last several questions were shut that
were hitting the point that I wanted to hit. I have to draft a resolution the aisle said and done and I want to make sure this was distinguished from anyone else who comes in and says I don't want people walking from my house. Okay. Your letter from or your wife's letter from
the VA talked about Yeah. to um totally and permanently disabled. Thank you. Do solely to your service connected disabilities. The letter from the vet from the vet center said that your
wife's experiencing significant psychological distress due to a front yard fence dispute with her local town. Can you link those up for me so I can cuz someone reading that can say, "Well, she has military issues. What's with the
feds?" And I get it, you know, and but I want I need to put a little bit more meat on this bone. Um, from your wife's military experience, if she's sitting in the front of the house, where does the stress and fear come in of the mailman
walking up the front front steps or I would say is more so the lack of control, right? So, it's when there's no fence, you just have wide openness. Okay. anyone and that was was she experienced in that
in the military is that why she I can't think specific she's been overseas she's been in combat overseas three times so I can't imagine what okay I don't know but it makes her feel she needs to know hyper vigil so she
needs to know what is happening around her brain so the fence helps her by pretty much funneling everything to one location. Like I mentioned, one of the restaurants was something she was always making sure
she sat where she was entrance. Could she could she come here if she had to or no? She couldn't find out because we have my mother. Okay, let's assume there was a babysitter. Would she be comfortable coming here and telling us what you're telling us? You think that she would? Um, but that's
one reason why they're from Mississippi. Okay, this is the level the next house is pro even more stressed. Um, it's not that the fence isn't needed just because of that letter. That letter is saying that everything the last 9 months just
the fact that she's someone in town decided to go about this was understand why people would feel they have to get in someone else's life and she's very unhappy as much of the personal life has to come up for this.
for the sake of having to improve. But but you can say she's definitely improved. She's she's better. Okay. I'm I think I'm going to step in. Uh we we we've got that the whole correlation. We understand what's going
on. We could come back to the board members after we open this up to the public. Does anyone have anything to say right now? I just have a quick question for Go ahead. ju just ask how and maybe it's just a typo your letter is referencing a
survey survey by now there there are two surveys um one of them uh I believe the original application and then there's a more revised one that shows the actual that's why there's a disc okay no
problem thank you um are you um Mr. Tarrison, pretty much done with your testimony for now. Okay. All right. What we're going to do is we're going to have to open this up to the public and then we could come back and and make some questions and
decisions. All right. Motion to open the hearing to the public. Motion made by Mr. David, second by Mayor Carlo. All in favor? I. Anyone from the public wishing to speak on this matter? Seeing none, make a motion to close the
hearing to the public. Closed by Mr. David, second by Mayor Carovich. All in favor? Okay, here's what's in front of us. We have a a builder that decided to tell this guy this gentleman, I'm sorry, tell this gentleman that it's okay to put a
fence wherever he wants. And we know that that builder knew better to do what he had to do. We also have letters here that's telling us that there's a necessity that his wife needs this and and all her service and her disabilities. But we also have
ordinances that we need to abide by. So what's in front of you is you have to make a decision. We have to make a decision whether we abide by the ordinance and or make some type of
sacrifice here. So I it's open for discussion. I can't make this decision. I have to hear from you folks. I guess a decision that we're up against and we had we had in the past um similar
applications whether it's fence where number of decks we know where it was the um uh I didn't know and I guess what we're being asked here is saying I didn't know but I asking us to take into
consideration the fact that there is a hardship um and basically that's that's, you know, is this hardship enough for us to to to bypass our, you know, our current importance. So, um,
I have a tough time voting against the, uh, some of them serve, but at the same time, I'm still I still have an issue with precedent. I understand the idea of president. Just what's going to prevent the next person from coming come
in here and say, "Oh, I didn't know I needed So, it's not an easy decision. Just this is our our session and we'll give you an opportunity. Okay. Um, anyone else? I just got So, you already have these
issues before you bought the house, right? So, you need to run school. I understand the need for just trying to figure this out myself. Okay. You said you had a dog also. Is that in the front yard also?
Okay. I grew up in an area where everybody had their fences right on the property of mine. When I was walking home from school, these big shepherds and stuff would always be scared walking home. And I know we have a lot of kids and I just I also do that for a living.
So I'm just a little nervous about kids walking by and my husband but thank you. Okay. Anyone else? Okay. So, there's two things. It's
either approve or deny or talk about the fence being on the uh property line or the rightway behind the rightway. Gentlemen, I can't do this myself. So, we have to have somebody speak up and tell me
that the fence obviously has to comply with um being right away. So, it should not be on our property. The problem here, mayor, is that it doesn't comply to the ordinance even if we put it back to the property line.
So, that's our that's the hard vote on, right? And that's that's the hard part because it's it's asking for forgiveness, which I don't believe Mr. Harrison knew what was going on, but I do believe that contractor knew exactly what he was
doing. Looking at it from the master plan standpoint, we've had this board has had discussions in reference to this subject for years. Um, I asked the one question in reference to
if the fence provided any type of inhibiting public to the access to the stairs, to the house, to the res. And the answer was that the fence, you could walk up the driveway, walk on the
sidewalk, walk right up the steps if not inhibiting the public of entering their personal space. I I think if there was an accommodation to be made, maybe we bring it back to the bottom of,
you know, some space in front of the bottom of the stairs that's gated in so that they contain themselves and and I might not be using the right words, but they would envelop their space
and have controlled access, which I'm assuming would meet the requirements of this disability, but that could be just in front of the staff. Let's say 5 ft in front of the porch so that they can walk down the
porch, walk onto it from driving by. It appears that you could walk from that front yard into the backyard without, you know, in the fence area, you can go into the backyard. I don't think there there's not a fence dividing the front.
just there's some more. Yeah. So they can be contained within their personal space and then we're not doctors. I'm trying to understand what this is. But if if that's somewhat of what it is that if it gets pulled
back 5 ft in front of the porch and it is contained in by a gate that is now enclosing her area. So it's giving her the sense of security. Yet it's not That's all the way all the way out. It
offers them a burden. It offers the defense to beat their particular hardship in this case because of this case and not having a fence all the way out to the property all the way out to the property. I got you. Anyone else?
Mr. Pantina again, Mr. O'Brien or Mr. Um I said my piece on on on my feelings about this and uh yeah and I agree with Mr. Mazio. It's a very hard decision.
So I asked this if the board considers moving back to back I don't know the option. Um your comment was uh comply
so it's it's mitigation type thing but um I um u I guess first time property owners could be on
they kind of work for however long forever. Yeah, forever. But uh since it is a personal partnership, can you put language in there or is it just out of control? Can you put language
decision that says that should the applicant I don't know next door or something like that. Um that has to come out because it's a personal hardship and not a property hardship. If you get out of
personal hardship, it goes with the property and it's there for the house. That's a good point. Just um I have been in we're all talking about grant front yard fence variance. It's just a question where um but I have been involved in some
medical situations with some boards where that kind of you know when the house when when it's no longer necessary for the reasons then it comes out. But if they sell it, the in this case, the fence would come out if they with the
move. Yeah. Um it's it's doable. I I mean, it's you know, I've seen it happen with converting garages to bedrooms because of a medical issue and when it's no longer needed, it's back to a garage. Uh and you have medical testimony that you
could support that discussion. That's why I wanted a little bit more flesh. Uh, it seems to me that there's clearly a medical problem disability here. And if the testimony is that a fence helps her,
that's that's I think that's more you agree with me and Kevin, that's certainly only a positive. That's something we definitely could do. But I'm going to throw one more one more thing into the mix. Um, we're here right now listening to really the hardship
side of this. As much as I don't like that fence where it is right now, and I'm going to be very clear, I don't like where it is because of our ordinance and it's there for a reason. But with this particular case, something needs to be
done. I also don't agree with having it five feet off the porch because I think that is going to be even more confining and that may create another whole issue even from a line of sight. It kind of looks like it's coraled now. It may be
more like a whatever that may be. I would propose going 10 ft off that front porch having that fence there. that would give your wife and your family more space. Um, and
she won't feel so confined in that space. It'll be set back. You won't see it from uh the the street as much. And and and that's the way I think I would like to see it. I think if you look at the picture, I
said 5 ft from the steps, you're saying 10 ft from the porch. We're actually saying same thing. And if you look at the picture, the natural construction of what he has right now, where the concrete ends after the stairs,
give him 5 ft in front of the staircase and he's got it. He has a bend in the fence right now. So take that piece of fence, run it south towards his right hand neighbor is having what we're told from different
directions. All right. Yes, Chris, just to clarify what everyone's saying, presently there's a 25 ft set back from the porch to the right, the stairs in this and the banding is about 10 ft. So,
you're doing from the porch, your steps and landing, which is a 10 ft from the porch. So, right here within the front yard within the front yard. So, I think that's so You're saying you're saying another 5 ft after that
you would have the fence 15 ft from the or you could go to the front yard set back at 25 I was saying from the end of the landing from the landing from the landing from what was that
so does that make sense to have a fence right next to no it's 5t in front of it. I thought that's what you were saying. Okay. So, maybe I'm not understanding. Thank you.
Okay. Okay. I say 10 ft. It would be my suggestion. 10 ft in front of the staircase. The land the landing there makes sense. It gives it a little bit more room. The landing right there.
Kevin question aesthetically. I mean engineering wise there's I don't really have comments. It's just whether it's 10 ft out or the 25 ft out from the right away. That's up probably makes
logistical sense. sense bring it to the front. But you don't think that looks good? That's what do you bring? So where it's right where it is right now aesthetically? That doesn't look good to me at all. No, it does not. Right. So I want to bring it back, but
at the same time, I don't want to make it like an incarceration cell. Right. So, what would be the appropriate amount of space that if if we're going to do something like this, let's let's do
something that works. Not something any other fence is allowed to go to the front yard set back if allowed. Right? So, should you decide this is allowed, you may want to say, okay, this should
meet what all the other fences do. just go to the library and say or the court may decide to bring it back. It's up to you. Mr. David, no comment. No, I mean I personally I think this case needs to be moved along. We have
another big case to hear and uh we're probably going to be here rather late as a result, but having heard all the different discussions around where it should be. In my mind, we should get some kind of survey as to what it would look like, but I mean more aesthetic where what it would look like 10 ft,
what it would look like from 5 ft, you know, the different possibilities. The fence is up. It's not coming down until this board votes or stays up until this board votes. So, I don't see an urgency to try and hash this out to satisfy everyone here tonight, this very moment. So, that's that's my Who's going to make
that draw? Who's going to make that? Who's going to make I I mean I think the board has got to make that decision. Mr. David, I you know what are we going to see? I think what we're trying to do is I I think Mr. Harrison is trying to be cooperative and saying I'll move it back. You tell me
where I can move it back that I could also get um what I need for my wife and to make him go back to the drawing board. Maybe we could do it now. Just Yeah. I'm just giving you my opinion. you asked for it and it's up to the board on one vote, but we can possibly get Christian to go out there and give
us two, you know, schematics of where how it might look. You know, I don't know if that's appropriate or not, but I just want to make the point that the board needs to move. Yeah. Try to move this along. Mr. Vermaldi, you're an architect. Give me some visual real quick. Would you like me to make Well, would you like to
I have one up here. So, so just I just drew a line of Would you like me to make a motion? Yeah. make the motion on the setback where you'd like it to go and I think we need to move this on and I show off
I I I I think I think yeah if you want to go all through that based upon I'd like to make a motion based upon the exhibit of I guess this is
that's the exist to come out moves. Yes, we're going to do that. Basically, as what we kind of discussed, I drew a straight line from where his existing fence is at the end of his landing after the stairs at the end of
his landing where it goes from south to north and ends at the corner of his driveway. Take that line back to the southern point of his property. Okay? which will give him an area of protective area in front of his house
which is approximately 10 ft from the porch right now. And I would make a motion to approve this with the language that was from the landing or from the deck from the porch. Bottom of the landing from the steps come down the bottom of the steps.
The landing of the landing fence is right now edge of land. Okay. Okay. and just extend that portion to the towards the school. And again, obviously with all the caveats, I'm going to want that because if the
board agrees on that and votes for it, I may want to attach it to the resolution. This is where it's 20 ft from the front yard. Yes, that's ft from the front yard. Okay. It's very simple. It's 20 ft from the front yard. 20 feet from the front yard. So, you
just made a motion that you would your a motion is that we will we will uh entertain 20 ft from the front yard setback with a condition stating that this is only for the purpose of while you own the house and it's
non-transferable to the next owner. The fence needs to come down and and uh adhere to all the presence codes. Okay. Yes. If we can do this with a medical situation, I've seen it done and nobody complains about it because it helps
everybody. You can. Yes. Unless I'm not understand here to there and then from here to there. Thank you. Could I Well, I think it's too strong. I think that's almost So, you were saying that line was drawn
in the front of the landing needs to move out towards the street. Let me I think that's Yeah, you you're doing that right across the landing where the where the So, you're doing it right here. But this is where the existing is now,
right? But there's a piece of fence right now cuz it comes this way that way. So just take it that way instead. This is where it is right now. Correct. It is right now. And then this is what you're proposing. That's the That's Are you sure?
Yeah. I'm saying this. I'm saying exactly. You're No, I I'm about to see something. He say he's saving 10 ft from the from the yard from the from the porch at the bottom of the steps.
Yes. We had a lot of grass out there. So like 34 just let me do this real quick. This is the front right where it is now. This is what Galdi is saying. This is very tight here. That's 10 ft.
Where were you saying point? Well, land is 25 right now. Well, go to the rightway. Just go to the rightway. Huh? Just go to the rightway. Go to the rightway. Go to the right because it's like being in here.
We don't have to vote on that. I can't make the motion. Anybody? Okay. Would you would you consider adjusting your motion to the right? Huh? I'd rather not. You'd rather not? Okay. Okay. There's a
motion on the floor and we have to hear that motion. Does the motion is to the bottom of the landing? Does anyone second that motion? Okay. Seeing none, that motion dies. That motion dies. Is there anyone want
to make another motion? I'd say motion 25 ft from the porch. 25 ft from the porch, which would be the right away from the property line. From the property line. 25 ft from the property line. The motion is 25 ft from the property line with the
condition that we stated forward that it carries only to this property this property owner and if it is sold, the fence comes down. Is there a second? Second by Mr. the policy. Okay. Roll
call, please. Mr. Personna. Yes. Mayor Carovich. Yes. Mr. Screeze. On motion. Yeah. Which is 25 ft. 25 ft. We pushed it back a little bit
from the right. Yes. Yes. For Mr. Screes. Mr. David. No. Mr. Clinty. No. Mr. Pantina. No. Mr. Mazio. Yes. Mr. Liddowi. Mr. Kella.
Yes. Mr. Grimmaldi. No. Only called nine. Nine members. That's all we can call. Nine. Nine regular members. I think seven. You went to 10. I went to 10. All right. Mr. Galdi doesn't count then. Okay. We have.
So what? I had four. Four. And then two people will fall. Five. Five. Yes. You have five yes. Five no. No, but yeah, only nine can vote. Somebody can't vote. I did. You altered. You got the out.
Take you out. Is alternate number one. Okay. Oh, sorry. So, you got 1 2 3 4 five yays, four nays. Is that right? Yep. Am I correct? Yeah. Okay. Okay.
Okay. Good luck, my friend. You know what to do. They'll set who's going to set something up for him or does he what does he do at this point? All the conclusion will be written up for our next meeting for the September
meeting and all the conditions will be laid out. One of us will make sure you get a copy of that. You have an opportunity to come back to us if you have any discussion of those conditions
to show up. Can we get a fiveinut recess? Yeah. Yeah. I got to hit the motion. You're welcome. Want to make a motion for a fiveminut recess? Yeah. We're done. Yeah, we're doing it. Um I make a motion for a 5m minute recess. Second recess.
All in favor? I 5 minutes in favor. I Okay. Um we have now application 24006 North Holding. Um Mr. out. We had a a quick conference. We're going to try to
hold this to an hour if we could. Um if we could move it along, I'd like to again thanks ago began this application presenting testimony. My client is not available but they are
here this evening. Uh we presented testimony for site engineers last meeting. variances. Some of those variances have changed. This is for use of the home. Um, and uh then what we're looking to do here as part of the project is
essentially clean site, add to one side of the building and additional paper. We'll have brief testimony explaining why these are paid for and and quick snapshot that we did.
state large factory and with that you have only a few large delivery and then factory work going on now warehouse distribution
tenants that are there's more brief but smaller UPS box we will outline what those various tenants do in the location and then And I am going to take a few minutes to just go through the changes that we made.
We've had since our last meeting here, several TRC's and really appreciate Kevin sitting down with us on several occasions and going through all of their giving us several memorandums and then
we address all of those. Uh, I do also want to start out by saying I found out today and I know brought up that there are fire violations and tele violations and the board was uh uh kind enough to send
those to me today. I'm going to have my clients just come up briefly. The plumber was there this evening called that isn't used. They're going to bring up vehicles clean up and fire violations if we work with the fire department to
address those. So, um, what I'd like to do is because I know that's concern, let me just have an come up with more address that issue that is Gentlemen, again, we don't have good
microphone tonight. You really got to project. Um, and this way we could hear you. I just about heard Mr. Hail, but I wasn't going to yell at him. Who uh who is speaking? Who will be speaking? I think both. We sworn to say,
why don't you first state each last name? My last name is Royer. Uh, first name. That's H L O N E. That's S S H S H L O N
E. The last name is U R E U E R. Okay. Is that how you say? Yeah. With regard to this, you want me to you want to affirm, not I swear, correct? That mean with regard to this application, do you affirm that
testimony you give shall be the truth? Yes. Okay. Why don't we do the name of Joel Title? J O E L. Last name Title. He at the top. E I T
E L B and one A U M. Okay. If you could raise your right hand. Same thing. Do you swear or affirm that the testimony you give your Okay. And are you both in tenants, owners, applicants? What's your affiliation?
I'm a partner property property manager. Okay. Okay. So, they're both affiliated with Got it. Okay. And uh again, we'll get to the specifics of the application and they were at several of the TRC meetings
that we had with the board professionals and got their feedback and let our engineer address that. also put together again operational testimony to have that sub there's two issue or two sets of issues if you su
with the working touch on those violations and privacy and just update on that so we have a second so we had an inspection I think two weeks ago we had daily inspection
and we had several issued the building we did some construction in the building out of nowhere. So the song is like for example Xerx work we had the line have a
lot of signal uh we had one of the blocks defined ports for the for the alarm report and the and the sprinkle reports um I provide them there was a to ask the second phone second that was
supposed to be closed. I provided already for the fire officials the all the reports the system I sent in the report system show it's normal um comply that the sex level is done
fix most of the stuff everything um is pretty much done we try to finish the x supplies um extension cord finishing up um just fine and stuff in
the shop. We're pretty much done. They asked for to organize this place was construction being brokers there and organized space making sure that there is enough miles according to
what it was asking for and pretty much all was done. and hopefully sometime next week hopefully inspection and we show that everything okay yeah certainly can
I have some questions I I just want to let the board know that the inspection was done on May 27 so it was not two weeks ago um you mentioned in your uh list of items that you uh said that you address there's a second floor closet
door that if you open it, it falls down to the uh on the second floor to the first floor. Um I'm not just concerned about the people there that are working there, but our firefighters and first responders if they have to come into the
building and also um question. Oh, I want to know if that's being addressed, what the status is of that. This wasn't on this. This is um this is violation number five on on the list,
right? The closet doors. It's being what is the status of that? It is. So keep in mind we We bought a property about 18 months ago. We bought it in
property with this technology. So in this case, the board members here, gentlemen, we really have to ask you to speak up. Okay. It's very hard. I spoke to my uh the fire chief at 3:50 p.m. today and I
he said that he's made several calls to you to set up an inspection and has not received a call back. I replied earlier text today. Maybe it was after them. I spoke to I spoke to him.
[Music] So let's let's cut to the chase. We have fire uh violations and we have health department violations. Should this board decide at the end of the night that we would approve, should we decide that we
would approve this application, it would be subject to a condition that all these violations will be met and satisfied to the building department and the uh health department and the fire code official.
You will not be able to get a certificate of occupancy. You will not be able to do anything unless this criteria is met prior to construction of anything. This has to be met first. There's no problem with that. And uh
please make sure that you have the appropriate people have your cell numbers and they can get in touch with I do know mayor there are several of you know as dated. So obviously some things we've done with no excuse for fire safety items not to
be addressed and no problem with again please make sure that appropriate fire and health department there's human beings in that building right now human beings in that building yes
um Mr. Maldi had a quick question. Do you mind, Stephen? Sure. Did they just testify that there was construction being done without permit? I don't I didn't I couldn't hear them. So, you have a better grab on. Is that what you're saying? Was there
construction being done without permits? You have permits? Okay. So, in other words, when the official came in, he noticed these other things going on, uh, these violations. Okay. I'm sorry. There was a complaint. There was a complaint.
Okay. So, if if we got this question these violations either. I don't know if you sent those. So, we got them. We just got them today. Okay. From Carmen, right? Today we got I'm having a hard time here.
We got the complaints from Carmen today. The violation list of all the violations today. I listen. Okay. I just would like to have the information and so they know what came in today. So let's stop. So I I think the the applicant has
stated that if this application was approved, he would abide by taking care of all the violations, fire and um health. However, the application shouldn't be the reason that you're doing it. It should just be done and it
should be done immediately because it's a a fire safety hazard and no water, no hot water, no flushing toilets, no lights, doors collapsing, whatever that is. It just needs to be Well, this is the report I have in front of me. So, all I'm saying is you have to meet the
criteria and then we can move forward. I would also invite mayor have fire officials or health departments don't hesitate to contact my office. I don't
[Music] Okay. Is everyone satisfied with what we just stated as far as that's concerned? All right. Good. Let's get on to the Let's get on to the case. So, I just wanted to touch on what we're over and I know is here and Mrs. for the
revisions that were made to the plans since we started since our first hearing and working with Kevin and Christian on that and Jim had put together a letter or series three different letters outlining revisions of plans. I thought
I think they they may have been submitted as submissions over time and I just want to touch on them and it reflects responses to their reports. So, and some of them are We'll get into the technical uh but
there's a May 20th letter and just said there was a detail on sheet five sheet three now showing the entire building that was done Christian requested southside didn't shine sign
two additional ballers and a right turn sign to discourage both right turns white trucks coming out as well as any trucks heading in. We had a site meeting and it's concerned. Yeah, we don't want the trucks coming down 12, but coming into our site,
whatever we can do to make it much more difficult for them when they're leaving, take a right out or coming down landscaping tables that have been added to the sheets. There's some additional landscaping that's proposed as part of
this Mr. last year. Uh turning radius for trucks was added to the plan. I think that was coming from both uh details pressed curve and uh pavement sections again focusing on that that
left turn. I mean that's the right turn in left turn out in the entrance area. Um the door exterior lot a has been detailed showing the deck ramp. Um wall
lights have changed to have a full cut off. It was concerned about the wall lights shining out. Uh additional arbor bindings were added along the south line of the property. um and two light pictures also to ensure there's uh no
lighting uh spill over and the uh just some other technical comments. That was the main 20 revision we have more KRC's and June 6th. Um it was again just more technical u existing
municipal signs on east side street were added. They're there, but we're here to be shown. Uh, request PSE G to shield pole lights. Um, we don't own those pole lines. PSG does, but we're making
request to shield those. uh the uh removal of additional areas that it's just again vetted and then tenant identification and existing plans um and uh comments on the loading bay and also
details that was part of it. Uh it was the location of the trash enclosure that's up in the corner of that parking lot and was also enclosed with the heaven and I believe it's a concrete wall.
So she can shield it even though adjacent to Camber Street to our residences beyond that we're discuss we want to add additional buffering and we have also no problem with
private caller having hours on garbage pick up and delivery. Um so that those were the changes that we made in the plan to address the comments from the board. U
is here uh but I thought I'd just touch on what those changes were. It was a collaborative effort and I think you might I don't know couple of board members I just think so between the and
this project of which TRC's we have. So next question I'm go ahead I didn't see you either Mr. for Christian. Um I was here to look at the first meeting first hearing on this and we were all in
agreement about the no right turn, no left turn in the driveway. We were trying to see that you responded to um so this question really toward Christian as can be comfortable with this or
whether you change it. So and I saw on Mr. online there were certain things that were provided um that didn't match. So sheet three which is supposed to be the proposed improvement sheet five
don't drive this report detail on five but it doesn't even say on sheet three that sheet five details so sheet three doesn't show the bers um doesn't show the signs um I don't know what else it doesn't show but I mean it's it's just not
consistent are you happy with that question from an enforcement you know, in terms of you showed exactly what we were asking for in terms of on sheet five on sheet five on sheet five and I would recommend that
the rest of the sheets beautify, right? So like like on sheet three, I mean the fact that you put in again the fact that you put in radius curve or what I call radius in the driveway in the right way and you got sidewalk
there. You got to have a handicap. Now on sheet five, you just said press her, but you got to have a handicap. You can't just have, you know, a few months ago. And also um and this is just my personal comment again for Christian
back on it. Do we do we want that no right turn sign in the rightway or we want to return the property right during several of our TRC meets you wanted we wanted the sign on so that the driver would see not to make
a right turn. Okay, just question. But there's also across the street an existing no right turn, but that's not on here, either. That's not That's not shown. That's not shown on three or five. So, you don't know. It's on one of them.
It's on a sheet. They all have to be reconciled. And that's our GB1, right? I saw that. Right. Right. So, but we we want a no right term sign on the property as well as right adjacent
already. Okay. And I think the burl is also into additional signage out. Uh I know frankly if I when I go down
there heading to this site it seems pretty much clear that tow trucks are allowed back looked at to try and discourage and uh Joel will touch on that they're also
instructing drivers to take back turn and also including least in their penance that that restriction [Music] as part of our TRC meetings. chair. Uh, one of the recommendations from all of
us was that should the board wish to consider this application that perhaps part of a resolution would be to communicate with burrow and council burough council and mayor uh to suggest
encourage additional no truck signage on uh 12 street and the road. That's a policy decision for the board. It's not a truck. No. No, it's not. No trucks allowed.
It's pretty clear. So another factor and I get this from me here but I I thought uh because some clients weren't here at the last meeting just talk about what the tenants uh at the location are hours of operation and
in expected truck uh activity on that site. So uh general is called upon you to just touch on that three tenants that are at the location. So speak out. So right now right now at
the property um the property is 92,000 ft on the ground floor. There is um 87,000 ft I would say the main building and the 5,000 ft like the side building like like an L shape
building is like an L shape. zone is like the size of a small 5,000 favorite buildings on the main building 87,000 ft building probably two two or three towns in there right now I myself I'm a I'm a
business owner of the business it's called home for you um what we do is um we import products from overseas and we sell them online every single day we get um we sell them on Walmart and Amazon Wayfair
like home depots etc. A lot of different channels online. Somebody goes online and order something electronically the order gets transmitted to our program our system and we load the product from our
warehouse directly to consumer. So we get that they picked up from UPS, FedEx, USPS, DHL from the main um all the main um carriers to pick up besides the pickups we get every single day.
We're not getting it right now, but this is this is eventually we start getting pick up. Um besides the pickup we get every day, we probably get one most likely most of the time containers, sometimes two containers per day. finish
come in, get dropped by the loading night takes about three to five, sometimes over a day or how long plus we could get one or two trucks. Usually it's one truck um will pick up four uh
delivery um 20 pallets, 10 pallets. So just for talking about my own business, the reason why we need so many DS um trying to add so many because all the carriers they all come to pick up between four and 5 days in this short
window because we try to if a customer or three for a we to customer the same day. So everybody comes in the same short period. So what we do is we you know put the the boxes in front of the
loading deck and when the show can offer per second you mentioned product just generally one type of product. So no, so we're talking in basically we selling out furniture. Um gentlemen, gentlemen, please let's talk about here.
So outdoor furniture, uh medical furniture like shower chairs, can bed rails. Uh we have a line of exercise products like gym equipment. It's making for consumer use. They have power
towers, dumbbells, not flammable. No, not flamable. So it's basically consumers consumer ros. We have two different categories we sell online but everything not nothing home for you. Home for you.
Yes. S H O N for you. I think it's logistics. Yeah. And then what are general hours of operation? So we um operate usually at
normal hours between 8:30 and 5:30. Um for a week Friday we do one or two workshop not usually. So how this could be one or two weeks like Friday
and you explain the number or you touched on soil and so for our company we can have like four four or five carriers major carriers open up every single day one or two containers drop off day sometime they rotate every new
one pick the old one and one trailer usually average day delivery and pick up. This is uh which is about our company. Then we have two more tenants right now building. One tenant is existing tenant we still named Nto
Logistics that we discovered today. Um they operate um three three of their own trucks two vans. There are um like public storage for customers in mainly in New York City. Um they logo also. Um, so they're
getting deliveries every day from the two trucks and they are doing outs. Then that client was there prior to you buying this? Yes. So prior to the property they were inherit
10 12 in. So right now there is like we the occupied probably I would say 40% of the property there is 20% of the property is moment logistics then there's also one small amount of small time
um he was also over there just again hours of operation it's a five week no weekend no And then there's Sky Mason again that was another company. So Sky is another company with just prior motor
properties. Uh we also have the whole operation from 9 to5 days a week all day to Friday. They have their own fleet of three vans and two pickup trucks. Um they do they go for the jobs. I believe they do masonary stuff kind of stuff. Um
so this property is correct there and then there is like right now a section of the property which is still okay. So that was uh again unfortunately Sam
and Joel weren't here but hearing so we thought we wanted to make sure they came and explained how operation and why the official bay doors which is the the main impetus of this application aside from digital
landscaping cleaning up the side of the building I think that was in the exhibit submitted with the facade I believe the corner has his request to say see what the sign they look like. I think it was south side
rendering the south side but they say um the you know when we bought the property the building like build probably some section 1920 something like this. So we start doing construction designers
walls there and we upgrade the building to clean up the code of the code up to date. Uh lighting of the building up um one of the reasons
we need not much traffic. We don't have square footage building. Um it's called in a practical manner to really divide into three or four sections. Everybody needs to get their two or three dedicated loading dots. And of course if
they're getting a data truck one or two ducks access to their operations, those trucks should stay outside on North. Prior I bought the property. Um my previous owner told me that um we only
had four drivers. They had times like the four guys that were occupying two containers wanted two trucks there. There was traffic like one or two trailers sitting outside waiting
to be able to with the new um tomato tree opening up. It's not going to be necessary anymore. It's only traders waiting outside. I believe this it's this like going back to your hours of operation. All three businesses right now are not
occupying the the building or not working on the weekends. Correct. Correct. And you you have future plans to grow your business. Is that going to be the motif for the future business? Correct. So, which could be like in the holiday season on Black Friday?
That's that's understandable, but we're looking at a Monday through Friday operation. Chris, did you have something? Yes. Just wanted to um confirm um right now there are like five spaces like five 10 spaces. So, two of them are occupied by Michael.
Yeah. And then the other ones are just like with the sky. at least like one term. If you do you said you do two I would probably occupy two of them and one of them is going to be a third level
third and you can expect that it's going to be probably the same nature of we have so we made we made the building not it's not not the manufacturing of anymore so very much so more for warehouse it's
warehouse distribution probably the nature commerce talk very slowly operation Mr. Chairman here um you might want to uh if you if you have
if we have enough right here with these two gentlemen we might want to hear Mr. Messati and then come back to this. It's starting to with you start encroaching with regard to to the to the uh southside elevations
that approximation or if the board proves it that's what it would look colors texture. Is it going to look like this when you fix it? Yeah. During one of our meetings, you
mentioned that voting zone has to be adjacent to where your proposal becomes. a little bit more detail how that voting uh doors. Yeah, we're out at the site. I think we're out there all of us
that that bind the whole board. It's just where the region sounds like a lower technically but sometimes there is this the best area to put down
usually a lower 4T truck should be able to come back in to get to the height of the building right usually 40 to 50 in If you post right next to it after this post, you have anything else for these gentlemen?
No. Anyone else right now? Mr. H. Yes. Mr. H. Yeah. Mr. Can you talk to Mr. Mr. O'Brien the last few admissions that were
requested identify Christian identified I summarized a few of my reporting I believe and we didn't want to serve the board everyone but a whole new submission so
we'll submit this as an exist exhibit kind of the applications. Jim, why don't you come on up? Do we have maybe the rendering? We can mark it today. A1 was the rendering. It should be marked.
Oh, wait a minute. No, we have A1. should be a and these three different chairman back June 17th
my plan report number two on page three item Romeo the very bottom I showed one two three four five items that had not been addressed as a result of our technical review committee
meetings that Mr. Quo and I suggested very interested in seeing perhaps Mr. H Mr. ambassador can show us that they're provided. There is a site plan here if anyone wants to see
it full size. Okay, we'll submit those and have you left. Can I can I just interject? I know I know we see about seven site plans out there I guess with the markings of what
we asked for but if I remember correctly I appreciate that they're there. I know we did not see them, but I know it went to you and you. Correct. Now, we're bringing them in because this letter um came in on June 11th. Plans
were just done last Friday. We didn't want to submit them because we bring them as an exhibit. We just had testimony indicating that it addresses Kevin. Okay. We have not seen. You have not seen either. Did you Chris?
I saw both today. I saw Okay. You saw it today. Okay. So, let me just touch on it. Is it 21? Yeah. Are you on page three here? Well, that is my plan to report the 17th. We're also referring to a letter
the 11th summarized technical review. Maybe either one. This is June 17th, April. The plans that were submitted in our package, right? May 19th,
those plans aren't even plans that you June 11, June 6th, which also weren't in the package. He put in the June whatever he said today, right? We pre-re the last one stated the 6th of June.
Right. The ones in the package unless I open them is referee is May 1925. You should have been provided 6th of June and then Mr. Minardi was now talking about provisions since then.
These are more technical in nature addressing specific. No, I get it. But I'm just saying the ones that I was referring to before were actually Sorry. No, I'm just saying I'm just I just want Mr. M, you're still under
oath from the March 13th meeting. I'm assuming all is well with you in terms of your licenses and all that. Yes. Yeah. Good. So, Mr. just touch on the license uh from the tune random that are raised by
you. Sure. Absolutely. Show a WT WP64 inbound to the property southbound 12. That is a size of truck. It's a big
Mr. Have you been able to do that? Yes. Excellent. Uh, number two, match building design driveway drawing on each sheet. Yes. Number three, apply outside shielding
for east lot over lining. Um he could not say that that we'll contact PSG who owns the lights about providing shielding provide average daily or weekly truck traffic. Okay. That that is the uh the orders
because I cannot you provided that testimony that was the testimony you just gave. Correct. So we've done that confirmed removal of any ancillary dumpster areas. Is there a note to that effect? Yes.
Okay. Very well. I take Mr. Master Nar's word that cleans up the open. Okay. We can move on from that's good for and certainly
we will worn out by those plans. Right. So, Mr. chairman. Um, again, I think the hard work professionals the hard work of your board professionals and the board's feedback
really addressed from that first hearing all the comments that the board had and comments that we raised together. I think we have a total of three on this project.
We I mean it must have made four revisions since the the year back in March. Um many revisions TRC's back and forth regarding I believe you iron out everything. Okay. So through the TRC's and the
reports that we're hearing now, you adhere to all of Mr. O'Brien and and Chris's uh needs is what you're saying. Yes, Chris. I'd like to make an amendment to one of my comments about the EV spaces. Um, according to state
state regulations, any new parking lot requires EV spaces and the I guess the parking I suppose on that lot C would be technically a parking parking lot that
would require a space for that. How many is that, Chris? One, two. It's not new park, is it? Is there parking there now? Is that the north park? We're not proposing
you proposing whatever. So I understand that Mr. Quato wants to amend his statements because this is something new that has come up with him. So I I initially requested three. I believe
it's only one. Okay. Unless Mr. H show that that was prior parking lot is now grass. Unless you can show historically was a part which means it's still
I I have to ask a question guys. Mr. Quaido asked for three EV spots right in originally. What he's saying is you don't need three, you only need one. So if three was requested, you'd have to reduce it by two. It's no big deal, right?
Yeah. I was just thinking that we didn't need any because the state rule says it doesn't do parking then require any space. But if you want a Well, I I don't want it. I just want to do what's right for me. I use gas. I I
you know lot C on the north side of the building appears to be new according to the site plan. We suspect that it's a historic parking lot because it's gravel. So Mr. Hail can show us historically it was
parking lot. We don't need air. But if it's a new parking lot, Mr. Quaido needs one evening. Simple, Mr. Hill. That's simple enough. Mr. to Grimmaldi. Just real quick to this piece that used to be the extension of the railroad right there. There were railroad tracks
alongside the building. So there could have been parking there previously. The railroad tracks came out. It was crowded. Okay, that's good. Somebody may have used it as parking, but it wasn't a legitimate parking area.
Right now you need one. You need one. How about that? Well, would you like to do that? Well, no. I'm just saying when Mr. Zeus lie, um, I did show it as parking when when this is going back 10 years
and, uh, I did show parking at that time and included in an analysis. do whatever you got to do. I think you should have I think you should move this along. Is that everything you have?
We have nothing certainly here. Excited to get this project. Chris, are you satisfied with everything? Thank you. And they said that they will comply with all the comments that both and uh letters.
Okay. Hey u Kevin sir, are you satisfied with everything that they have brought in front of us? Yes. Okay. So, they have complied and they're going to do whatever everything that um uh we talked about here tonight and in our previous uh meetings
plus whatever reasonable conditions the board wishes to impose in the resolution. What did we talk about as far as conditions are concerned? Cuz we didn't talk about anything here tonight except that EV spot. We talked about the violations being
Oh, the violations. Yes, we I thought we handled that, but go ahead. We talked about uh it's a board decision whether you want to include a request to the burrow about additional truck signage. Okay. and then the EV
or other discussion for where will be located. I'm going to do this after we talk to the mayor. When you pull in that lot of walls and you go all the way to the back
on that second corner is uh the two buildings kind of where that elbow is. It's going to be in that area with the masonry wall on the on the side that that face razor.
Okay. Um are you pretty much complete with your testimony Mr. Hill or I mean Mr. Mr. Mi or I'd just like to add that um someone mentioned that the the um the signage on
on Club Street was not on the plans but it's on the existing conditions on page three and five but two it is on the existing condition and I probably should put it on that sheet by Mr. Mr. Master is agreed as a resolution
condition and he will match all the plans so they all show everything working well. Okay. Okay. You gentlemen finished. Is there a motion to open this to the public? So moved. Moved by Mr. David, second by Mr.
Clemente. All in favor? Anyone from the public wishing to speak on this matter and this matter only? Seeing none, motion to close the public portion of the hearing. Closed by Mr. David, seconded by Mr. Mazio. All in favor? I. Okay, gentlemen, you have everything in
front of you. We have to um what we have is some conditions that we're going to ask Lou to um recite in that whatever that writing is over there. Yeah. And we'll Yes. Mr.
Speaker, I just want to ask you a couple of questions. Right now, the business is functioning as it is right now. Correct. whatever business they're running right now, they're running out of there. We don't have updated plans because they they were very proactive by uh reacting
to our professionals comments and updating their drawings, but we don't have them right now. They have outstanding violations with many departments in township. Yes. And I I understand when you inherit an old building
industry, I I understand you inherit nightmares at times. Um our officials are going to have to go in there. Maybe they can give them some other recommendations. My suggestion would be let them come back to the board with the final set of drawings that we all can
have. Get all the open violations cleaned up, have a understanding from all departments that everything has been satisfied and let us make our decision at the next meeting because it's not going to impact their business today because they're
functioning as they are today. And then we could get put a nice bow on it. We got a final set of drawings. We know that all the violations are cured and all our leaders of our departments have been satisfied.
And look, I'm glad they're here. I'm glad to say somebody moved into the c into the building and it's functioning the way they are. But I think for the board, I think we'd all feel better that everything's done, there's a bow on it,
and we most likely vote possibly. Okay. So I I could take that into consideration as your board chair and of course I don't make the final decisions, but you also have to look at a couple things. We have our two professionals who are satisfied with what Mr. Hail has
presented here tonight. We could prolong the inevitable if we want to. But don't forget before they do anything, they have to take care of their violations because even if we approve this tonight, our resolution doesn't come through
until September. So they have now until September to get it right or that resolution doesn't get passed. Am I correct, gentlemen? So this gives them almost a deadline to say, "Hey, wait a minute. Do we really want to move forward? We got to get this
right." And if they don't get it right, that resolution will get passed. If we put all the conditions, lay them out. I mean, we know everything that they're going to do. We hammered this out quite a bit. I'm exhausted. I mean, the only thing I would have said,
whether it's our professionals, somebody needs to make sure the property is cleaned up. As they've spoken about, the north side of this property has a number of 55 rusting 55gallon drums in that parking lot area. There's debris,
there's dead cars, there's multiple things. Mr. I think you make a good point. But then we will put that as part of this condition. But I I don't want to come back here and then rehear this whole application. If we're going to talk about that, we talk about it right now,
dump it into the condition side of this. And I'm sure if Mr. Hail will advise his clients, you want this thing done, this is what you need to do. Am I correct? Condition. I walk the site and get over all those things that have to be done. Can we add that in that all this debris
and drum and garbage? Yeah, sites got to be cleaned up. Mr. um over the board could certainly ask the zoning official and health department to go there as soon as possible and make sure that this property meets code.
Okay, Mr. and all the environmental what's in those drugs help environmental work. Um, I mean that should be for me said the health language. There's no Brian said health. I guess that would check that out too.
Yeah, I I think that comes under um I think that comes under um part of what they also inherited. So they inherited this, they have to do a cleanup whatever means and methods for the sake of safety, environmental protection. Uh all
of those conditions have to be met and have to be dealt with properly. Our uh sub code official needs to get out there, take a look at the property. You gentlemen are telling me here saying you want to get this application passed and you want to do the right thing for Kennallorth. Clean up the place, get it
done right, or the resolution is not going to go forward. And we'll put that and outline that. Kevin, are you satisfied with the plans coming to you and Chris for your final review? I I don't really think the board needs to see the plan again. Um, Mr. Grimmaldi,
but you you can, but what he's what I think you're talking about is coming back again to look at these when we have two professionals that could just run right through the items. Just suggest Okay. the June 6
version of the plan was sent out to somebody. I don't know who electronically. I don't know why they're not in your bins. That is a failure on the part of the burrow. Yeah. But anything that's sent to us perhaps if the board wants we can review it just
to verify that what is said is there. Yes. And if everything is fine, then they should be sent to the entire board so you can see it before the resolution. That's fine. We'll have it before the resolution. I'm sorry. Um, mayor is going to be on the north side
of the box. Mayor, we'll work with Okay. It could be anywhere. Okay, let's uh let's let's get a motion here. Is there a motion on the floor to approve this application with the
conditions set forth which he will recite? Mr. Gormali made the motion to approve this application with these conditions before we second the motion. You want to hear the conditions? I was going to say just make sure in those conditions that the building department
and all their members have gone through the building because there's construction going on and that's all signs off help and fire that they're satisfied by the time we get that resolution.
Okay. Okay. Okay. The res the conditions that I had from the March meeting are as follows. First of all, the overriding conditions are the reports that are uh and the conditions in those reports that Christian and and Kevin put together.
From our first meeting, I had the the trash dumpster area in the corner in Southside. Uh that's where the trash is going to go and there's supposed to be trash enclosure plans provided to us. They have been provided. Buffford. Okay. So, that's not a
condition any longer. That's part of the plan. Am I correct? Yes. And we've addressed that. We've addressed that. So that's not a condition. Colorized rendering on the south side of the building. I think we saw that last night. No leasing of parking spaces to third parties. We haven't discussed that. Well, addressed the large.
Okay. But I just want Okay. Uh directionals at the entrance. I know in your reports, guys, you had some more details like no right turn. Yes. Okay. That's landscaping. Again, this was before all
the modifications. We we'll provide landscaping plans. I heard testimony on that. They have. Okay. Question mark. Remove bar. Remove barbed wire. They agreed to that. Now, these were addressed on March 13th.
Okay. Uh the shields on the lights. Um they've addressed good light investigation. Signage plan. Is there a signage plan on the site? They've agreed to remove the unnecessary signs. Good. Consolidating mailboxes. No small.
We talked about that on the 13th. They got a big mailbox. It's there. They just don't use one. Okay. Why? I don't know. Tonight, uh fire and health violations uh has to
be taken care of prior to CO. Also that means zoning, fire, health, go through the building and make certain everything is tight tightened up. Uh site cleaned up. Encourage no truck signage um at the
mayor and council on was on 14th on 12 12th Street. Yep. No truck sign on 12th. Okay. Um south side of the building will look like the rendering that we saw.
It's going to colors make make it look like that. Uh, one ED spot on this property somewhere. And I think someone talked about matching plans. What was that? I think he might have said it, Steve. That was to have plans.
Actual plans. Actual plans. Check the planer report the 17th. It's the RC memo. You left 12 letters later. Okay. That's and then our normal conditions as far as pay taxes getting any other
approvals that they need. I don't know if there's any environmental. Was the EV part of a condition or part of the plan? Part of the condition, right? EV. Yeah, that's it. That's what I have. In regards to the sub code, I think you
stated uh we'll go through the inside of the building, but they should also go to the outside of the building because the 55gallon drums and stuff are on the exterior as I understood it. Yeah. So, specifically,
be a condition that the exterior and the interior should be reviewed by our subco. I agree. Can I ask a question, Mr. Can? Yeah. Um, when you write your resolutions, and I don't I I read them, but I don't this time. When you write your resolutions,
do you include a caveat in there that you know, uh, conditional, pond, other state? Uh, yeah. That's a normal thing. So, the the hazardous waste would be whatever they need from any other entity, they have to get and if it changes what we approve, they need to
come back. kept on. Uh let's not take this too far. We don't know if there's hazardous waste out there. The thing is we got to address what the violations are as one uh item. Violations have to be taken care of. And what the board is going to require and
you could put this part of the condition is that we want a letter from the uh sub code officials that all these violations have been taken care of prior to us going to resolution. as far as a condition to clean up the site. Clean up the site. What you find there that's
your responsibility to take care of in the proper manner and that's how we do this. How are we going to uh document the site being cleaned up? The letters. Yeah. The letters from the sub code officials. It's got to be cleaned up. It's got to be cleaned up. Also direct your professionals to go out
before the next meeting and resolution to give a report to the board on the conditions on the property. So what happens mayor? um if they meet the criteria that we talked about, which I think they will, and get these violations done, now they go to work and they're going to do their construction.
If their construction does not meet the conditions that we set forth, they don't get a seal. So, that's how that's that's the holding bolt, right? That's how we we hold back. But the building department has to exercise everything that we have here and and get it done
that way, right? Okay. The motion was made by Mr. Baldi, seconded by Mr. Mazio. Roll call, please. What is this? Roll call to approve with this with the conditions
plan and variances of which there were no new I believe. Okay. I think when you hold on, we were in the middle of a second for Mr. Rego. Will you get a report from our professionals prior to your final resolution?
Well, yeah, because they have to get the plans off to them and also that it's been clean. They'll have all the letters from the We should have that before before September. I mean, we've got to have it otherwise Wait a minute. Well, that's the thing. I don't want everything to be waiting till September
and then it puts these guys with no time to fix anything. So, wait a minute. the the the things that they have to abide by, they should do now is starting now because they are in violation of the ordinances, right? That's what they have to take care of.
Don't wait till the resolution to get out. Yeah. No, they got No. Is there any way to put some verbage? We did. It's got to be done prior to the resolution. We're killing them now. But if I do the resolution, it's going to be post post facto. I mean, and and let's say this,
they don't get it to us. that goes this October, then they're not going to see it. But guys, do do whatever. Just get it done. End of get together with the town with I'll be down that block next Friday.
I'll be there. Okay. Motion was made made by Mr. Vermaldi. Yes, sir. We're in the middle of a roll call vote. I know. We got to just question. Yes. Answer that concern. Our meeting in September. Anybody have a
date? C whatever that is. Your reports are due a week out. Their submissions are due two weeks out. So two weeks out. We'll be out at the site looking around. So everybody knows. Kath, you got a date? What's Tuesday?
September 23rd. September 23rd. Backed it up four weeks. We're talking Labor Day or so. If it's not done by then, we got problems. Get going right away. Roll call, please. And remember, Kathy, on the roll call
that this board has nine votes. Nine votes. We have an alternate one, Mr. Po. Alternate three, Mr. Paldi. And alternate four is Mr. Woodlaz. So, they vote in that order. Yes. Yes.
Mr. Perna. Yes. Mayor Carlo. Yes. Mr. Scarice. Yes. Mr. David. Yes. Mr. Clementi. Yes. Mr. Pantina. Yes. Mr. Matthew. Yes. And Mr. Leowi. Yes. And Mr. Kleta. Yes.
It's nine. Congratulations, guys. Appreciate you. Thanks. Anything for you, Mr. Hail? Okay. We're still in session, guys. Okay. Comments for the good of the
board. Anyone have comments for the good of the board? Gentlemen, we are still in session. I know you need to talk, but let's keep it down. We can't hear ourselves. Thank uh I make a motion to Oh, no. No, there were no comments for the good of the board. No comments. All right. Not nobody wants to tell us how good we
are. Go ahead. Make a motion to open the the meeting to the public. Made by Mr. David, seconded by Mr. Clemente. All in favor? I. Anyone from the public wishing to speak? Seeing none. Motion to close the public. Motion made by Mr. David, second by
Mayor Carloich. All in favor? I. Motion to adjourn. Ajourned by Mr. David. Second by Mayor Car. All in favor? I. Okay. I want to have um Thank you, gentlemen. Let's do a nice
job over there. Okay. Right. [Music] Heat.