##VIDEO ID:AcJFdKBteB0## I'm making this announcement in compliance with the open public meeting the open public meeting act being chapter 231 Public Law 1975 laws of the state of New Jersey the planning board secretary has prepared a schedule of this meeting of the planning board of the burrow of Kenworth for the year 2024 and has posted a true copy of this schedule on the bulletin board located at the front entrance of B Hall and has mailed true copies of this schedule to the local source and the Star Ledger and is maintaining a copy of this schedule in burrow Hall accordingly the notice requirements of of the open public meeting act have been satisfied in regards to this meeting can we stand for the Pledge of Allegiance IED Al to the flag of the United States of America to the Republic for which stands one nation under God indivisible with li and justice for all roll call please mrno here Mr David here Mr here Mr pantina here here Mr scary here and Mr here okay pardon me is there a um motion for the October 10th meeting minutes motion B Mrs luga second by everybody on the right hand side of the room by Mr there all in favor okay uh any Communications Cappy none none Mr Rego you have something I have two two letters P my desk within the last few days um you may be a woring staff one December third was addressed to John Zimmerman he's a council president he received that yeah he did get it yeah copy to the plan board and cop all right just so the board's aware this letter was sent by an attorney uh Raymond L who's in's in Elizabeth he represents purchasers contract purchasers for property on 32 look Court from uh dun DN in the title Sten sorry okay the title search disclosed some weird language back from 1941 that um uh and I'm quoting no persons of any race other than the white race show use or occupy any building or any lot except that this Covenant shall not prevent occupancy by domestic Servants of A different race doled with an owner or tenant Wanda believes it's illegal I wholeheartedly Concur and um it was asked he asked that the uh Council take steps to get rid of that um it's not our job but there has to be a way to maybe talk to a title compy and on it but I believe that Laur I suggest you send it to to the JY and the council sorry was that on the property deed or something related to change the title there's a lot of older older properties in a lot of towns that have these kinds of strange religious race um and why did that go to the council president um I think I can only guess that the attorney sent it to the council president to bring it to the attention of the governing body that this is an issue and we want to resolve it okay it has nothing to do with that no no nothing to do that the second letter was sent to the planning board but I was CCD on it we do one at a time if they're different they're they're different simply Sameer and I have a comment on the first one okay sure there was a Supreme Court Court decision dating back to I believe the 1960s in conjunction with the Voting Rights Act 1964 that found that those covenants are unconstitutional unenforcable and have all gone away yeah so I don't think they written they may not have to do anything they don't have to do anything totally it's totally unfor correct um but if you want to look up that case or the Voting Rights Act of 1964 I mean whatever you want to do no we have no we have no issue with with that letter that's I think in the hands of the council okay the second letter advise them it's unin forcable it's unconstitutional nobody has to do anything I you tell yeah absolutely citation we will get yeah no it it's it's bogus anyway same attorney same uh this was addressed to the planning board I would C seed on it same property 32 L Court um he mentions the Restriction that I just set forth and then belond the attorney says will you please confirm that the structures erected on the above block and lock comply with and have improved in writing by a majority of the planning board may I hear from you I'm assuming this needs to go to to zoning officer Rec construction just to make sure our planner is uh falling out of his chair yeah was this goes to the zoning officer the zoning officer is going to say whether the use is permitted or not permitted yeah do you want this take them both cuz neither neither neither pertain to us those are St con any any other Communications those were great good I couldn't let them pass by all right the next item up is um the resolution Daniel Ricker application number 2 23-4 470 Boulevard um you have a resolution here for this yes okay I hopefully you hopefully you've seen it I did I signed it oh okay I'm just seeing if you're on top of your game of course I have this basically confirms our action last meeting and dismissing the application without prejudice and in the resolution I indicated that the planning Bo at such time as the matter is deemed complete by the appropriate B officials and um all fees are paid whatever and we are um we have the appropriate jurisdiction empowers to hear it we'll hear it but but until then we can't really do anything I I just wanted to make certain in writing that we're we're ready willing and able to hear it when it's ready and from what I understand it's not so um so this is the resolution if they want to reopen it at some point in time that's an easy thing to do yes Mr chair getting tired of myself talking um the application for development for funer home on the boulevard has been in the making for a while the applicant did not meet the bureau's stringent standards for completeness in which I don't know how many of you remember the bad old days but uh we used to get stuff that was just complet David know he think get stuff that was just completely unacceptable nobody knew anything so we instituted these guidelines and everybody has to meet them it's one size spits all occasionally Christian and I will take a little initiative and say well situation okay you don't need to do it depending upon the circumstances these folks were told over a year and a half to keep submitting the same thing after the same thing after the same thing and they didn't submit it all until September of this past of this year 2024 and when they did we said application's complete here's your hearing date and uh we started preparations to hear them at that point they decline the hearing date and sent us a letter saying uh our applicant no longer wishes to prosecute the application uh for economic re right and apparently there is lawsuit activity not to the board to the bar to the bar which thank God I know where I'll let them sort that part out makes no sense anyway because the planning board is responsible for applications for development right so they're suing the bur and they have people there who are handling it our bu attorney and their staff and they are getting information from Christian and I we providing everything that they need MH and the reason for this resolution close the circle is so that because they have withdrawn their application we would like it place on the record that this application has been closed without prejudice we have taken no action on this application they are free to resubmit it a future date if they so wish or not as they so wish if to a legal claim that's over here okay so that's the reason that's resolution is in front of you to close the C well I appreciate that thank you for the heads up I knew that there was a a suit against the borrow I didn't understand why uh I thought it would be against the planning board but you can't really do that either B's got more money than was so we haven't done anything we yeah I I don't I don't know where that's going but I also asked the question I'm sorry when was it filed lawsuit filed well had to be filed as soon as that was closed um yeah I I I all I know is that our burough attorney and the applicants attorney are in communication I haven't seen anything filed as yet I don't know if the if our attorney is gathering stuff in preparation for defense I'm not sure I were just talking about it a moment ago and we'll get more information we'll let you know what's going on well thank you for that update to bring you up to up to speed um I also asked a couple of questions I understand that when we um when we did um do our master plan and we voted on it uh and that we did not I got to choose my words W wisely we're on the record yes so I understand that they were able to submit an application because they went to Superior Court and they said that you can now be heard because maybe the master plan wasn't done properly at that particular time no the judges said go back to the planning board I mean basically I don't know what the reasons were well that was the reason the lawsuit fought the planning board's change of the zoning ordinance to eliminate a particular use from the boulevard based upon the board's anticipated um concern about traffic and intensity okay so the court said Court ruled you can't do that it was a superior court judgment Elizabeth mhm and that's where it stopped we didn't pursue it we didn't do anything burough accepted it and came back to the board and said you have to treat this application like you didn't change the master plan or the ordance exactly that's where I'm going with us so exactly so that applicant is under the old master plan of how it was now the new ordinance says that this is a restricted area for better terms right the do master plan which is not in effect for that particular aspect to this applicant to this yeah and this is where I'm going with this this applicant has now withdrawn his application once you withdraw the application it's not in play anymore does that mean this applicant can come here can that particular applic can come before us anytime they want to put that back in play or now that you withdrew your application we now start the new Master Plan ordinance they may reapply chairman because your vote this evening I look at Mr Rego I presume will be that you are closing the application without prejudice you make no judgment on it you're not approving it you're not denying it dis the fact you're dismissing it because the applicant withraw point then they have the legal authority to come back in the future unless there is a change in the ordinance or the Burrows part for a similar application for the same use at this particular location okay all right um anybody else I guess we're good on we got V vote on oh I'm sorry someone want to make a motion read you going to read you want he doesn't have to I just no this is just dismissal of application without prejudice a short and sweet basically says that they're pulling a plug on their application because of lack of financial ability to continue and we indicate that we're able to hear the application at such time as it's deemed complete by the appropriate burrow officials and um when it's deemed complete we're we'll have the jurisdiction and powers to hear the case until then we can't okay is there a motion motion oh let the record should that Mr clementy is here I'm sorry uh okay he came in late on the um on the he was here he walked a little bit oh okay I'm sorry Mr motion made by Mr KY who was here second by Mr maio roll call yes Mr David yes Mr yes mrina you Mr SC yes okay yes you heard that one yes okay sorry okay next one is our application 22-4 minus subdivision 320 North 21st Street hello 18 would you like that turned around no it's okay okay it's f it works this way so please Ed proceed would yeah he would I'm a little taller oh Jesus I can't wait to tell him that he's getting a report from us tonight Natasha W tala with ja on behalf of the applicant palow Builders um we are here for a minor subdivision uh to construct two single family residences this is a Varan free application the site is located in the Burrow's R5 Zone which permits single family residences um the site is currently improved with an existing twostory dwelling which will be demolished um as part of this project uh they're going to subdivide the property into two separate lots that are completely conforming 50 250 by 100 lots and they're going to construct two single family residents on each lot each residence will be two and a half stories and have one car garage there will be enough parking for three parking for three cars um two in the driveway and one in the garage uh the homes will be Earth Tone colors one will be white and another one mostly gray um we will comply with whatever the ordinance requires on how they look whether they need to be similar or such different we make sure we comply with the required ordinance um I want to go and address some of um the planning comments real quick to address some items uh on page two um the shade trees uh we have one of the questions is is the existing tree towards the south of the property remaining the answer will be yes we're going to keep um the big tree in the front and the one in the back uh we will be adding an extra shave tree um we will have our engineer Joe Bachi address that comment when he comes up and um I also want to address the HVAC question um so there is a five foot setback required um I know the architectural plans have it on the having it on the existing and neighbor side we will be moving them to the inner the new lot line in the middle to make cuz there's a bigger buffer and we'll make sure the HB fits within the 5T there we will comply with all the comments in both the harbor letter and the planning letter but that is all I have for my opening and if I don't have any questions I can call any questions no no questions I don't know how important it is but in my opinion it's kind of important on the um tax lot 20 Block 17 the street is listed as Ursula Court there's no Ursula Court okay we will we will make that change for our resolution it would be very difficult to get a pizza there so you're what you have stated that your client complies with everything from the planner and the engineer correct okay um your engineer is going to testify yes correct we have our engineer so um anybody have any questions right now you want to hold them or you want to okay okay okay like to call Joe B would you like the table turn well I can work with that you not as full you not as full Steve you're not I'm never that I oh yeah that sound that's supposed to be only when I eat broccoli Rob about an hour later life there huh you oh you know what um what put them over here now yeah I think you need to be over here sir so so the camera can see your over yeah in that corner no you know what's better why don't you no I'm only kidding go out the door you see this it's our last meeting of the year we got to have some fun you want the camera to see the plans yeah you guys hear and the public yeah [Music] when you're ready if you could raise your right hand there you go we we'll get you sworn in with regard to this application do you SAR the testimony you're about to give will be the truth yes sir and could you state your name and spell your last name for the record please Joseph B A CI Joseph you said yeah Joseph would would for me at least would you mind speaking up a little because I'm having a hard time hearing tonight oh we would need to swear in our professions um I'm looking at Kevin and Christian gentlemen with regard to this application do you swear that any testimony and comments you give sh me the truth that was our board planner and our board engineer um why you briefly qualify him as an engineer okay can you please provide your qualification sure uh I'm a graduate of rers University with the DS in civil engineering I'm licensed in in the state of New Jersey since 2017 license is in good standing um I haven't appeared before this board before but um many others throughout un me County mostly and throughout the state Westfield gotot planes um Etc well good Mr Bachi what you have up there now is what we have here there's no alteration to anything like that that's correct okay if there's anything new that we don't have let us know like Mark y okay thank you all right can you can please take us through the site plan and explain what the project about sure um it is pretty straightforward I think you stole my thunder a little bit your description was was basically spotted on um but I'll I'll go through the plan so start with sheet one of again you have these the plans that we um just that this where we are draw your attention to the zoning map here uh I will update the misspelling there sorry you didn't catch that one um but we're lot uh 20 of block 17 uh with Frontage on North 21st Street uh we're in the R5 Zone bordering on the r six Zone um but basically the site's just surrounded by single family residential dwellings um if you look at the key map we're pretty close to uh it's kind of between here and gping Hills closer to gping Hills I measured it's about 400 uh 500 ft which which is uh pretty nice if you want to sneak on the course there I'm going to go to the last sheet in our set this is our survey uh so these are the existing conditions as I mentioned we have Frontage on North First Street exting Lot 100 ft of frage there and a dep of 100t existing two frame Welling kind of on the the quadrant of the site um off of that with the wood deck with um like a block for out structure underneath it um the sight's a little it's not really what you see now with our building standard you actually the whole site slopes down towards the rear and actually from the street you have a couple steps down in the RightWay uh then you walk to the front door then you come back up so the house is almost level with the street typically it's raised a little bit that um a little diff difficult given the SP of the site it also has this parking area on the quadrant of the it's elevated you have a retaining B here enough room for a couple cars there but you're actually parking halfway in the right away uh so we we try to avoid that in our proposed condition um I think that it's pretty simple site it's it's a oversized lot with one dwelling on it and a pretty pretty decent slope going back to the rear um I'll move on to our I'll go to sheet two just touch on our subdivision it is very forward I metion have 100 ft of Frontage uh so 50t is required in this zone so we're simply cutting that lot in half with a straight lot line right down in the middle so both Lots will be 50 by envelope in here that fly in the center you'll see on the next sheet our buildings fit nicely um so both loots will conform their their appropriate sizes in term of area so now go to sheet three uh it is a little I mention the grading the site plane here gring plan is a little busy with all the proposed grading uh we are generally keeping the same drainage patter with all the water flowing towards the rear uh one of the comments from Harvest letter um we are we do have two dry Wells on each lot proposed so we're going to reduce the amount of storm water we're basically going to take the area of the house it's going to get piped to the dry well you know fill up the dryw get slowly metered out with the scour holes in the back Harbor pointed out a concern that we are making it a little bit steeper than that because you know we got you got to flatten it a bit for the houses uh there was some concern that the lot the storm water going off uh our initial thought is maybe a a Riverstone trench in the rear but something like that we're happy to work with you guys that's our initial thought but uh we'll work with you guys on on any other you know Alterna French train you me or yeah French you're looking at 10t drop 7 7 foot 7 foot uh from out of 25 ft that water going to roll right over that we'll come up with an alternative well I mean we got the letter a couple days ago happen really no I I think catch Bas for holding dry Wells for holding you might have to tear it put one at the top and then one at the bottom and hold a certain amount but that's Christian I'm going no I've done it for a few so I'm just no there's there's Alternatives but you realize that there's a lot of flooding on 20th Street during highight uh uh little a lot of storm in a little amount of time it floods a lot yeah so your time of concentration when you do your train Couts are going to represent when that water goes out it's going a lot again do 15 75 storm 25e storm is going to make a difference I think when you get the high stor yeah it's aivil heing nightm because you know slow that slow that water um yeah I mean obviously if we're approved the be that can I ask you a question the the existing elevations in the back on the left side of the house you have it goes down to 86 to 79 then on the right side 87 to 79 correct we looking all the way at the back right with the square boxes going backward yeah 79 right so what is the existing elevation I see a cross slope of 81 closer to the house am I correct or am I reading your plan wrong one closer to the yeah see right up at the top where your invert is you have 81 here and you have 80 to the left it's the light print exist 81 right here it's a little the house yeah so right on the house that's 81 we're 83 at the back of this house right and we're going to go to 86 6 so we are raising it up a little bit you're raising it yeah which does give a bigger velocity of water as Mr Dela said no agreed agreed I guess the counter to that is we right now there's no detention on site so while yeah the water's going to flow quicker in the back we're taking all of this all the the house roof area and it's being detained in the driveways so I think I think it's a tradeoff there but again we're happy to work out I I I see the concern that increased velocity but over the overall flow being reduced so my question come Mr chairman okay so my question is mired on to Harbor's report Mr Dela and Mr um with the fill going back there and yeah you do have the dry Wells going back there but the the proposed grading isn't really focused on getting all the water to the dry so to the left or south and north of each dry well you know the water is just getting to the re property line quicker so whatever you're going to do you're going to work out with Harbor and that's that's fine before you get resolution compliance my question is um let come up in other things that I looked at is that uh is each property owner I guess by deed I guess or by wording they're going to have to be responsible for the operations and maintenance of the system right dry well the scour a hole whatever you come up with M it'll have to be there their responsibility correct yeah uh I'm not sure it letter no that wasn't but I'm just adding on top of yeah you should put some type of um whatever dryw current drain French drain whatever in the back to catch the water before it goes up the property line somebody's going to have to maintain that scour hole because it's just going to fill up water and get trashed and whatever but yeah no I was bringing up Harper's letter cuz on some other projects they reviewed usually for like major developments required a maintenance manual right um well that's what I meant but still yeah okay to to Mr pantina point in Harvard's letter that they did ask would it be by deed or plat it would be it would be by deed it's a it's a minor subdivision so we would do it by deed if you guys would prefer By plot no no just that's okay I know you guys want to be accommodating but we're trying to figure out what you're thinking and and that's why we're asking the question is there any thought to um a retaining wall across you know the back of the property in order to um slow everything down I see you have a little bit of retaining wall on the left side just to uh compensate for the lot line but if you I think I mentioned teered the property uh to me it might be more marketable just having an area that you can land on coming outside of the um uh weather and by the way uh finish floor is 98 and then you're at 87 are these proposed walk out basements yes okay so then so even if oh yeah so then I so you you plan on walking out to whatever that grade is but even at that grade if you picked up a little bit and had a retaining oil you could slow a decent amount of it down and then tiar down to the lower Edge yeah yeah yeah um what happen to discuss with my client but um he's a Minal to yeah I mean I'm just if wondering if you had thought about it and that would be a way to deal with the velocity because it's obviously it seems like everybody's biggest concern right now that's that's 20th Street on the other side 23r 20th and back there's um dwellings back there as well I don't know that area I didn't have a chance to go look at this area with this application is the are the houses yards back to back to this or they go any other way uh we back up to their backyards you back up to their backyards okay we do have significant M on any decent El by any chance would you know what the elevation is on the property behind them will you be here and they're down here or will you be somewhat uh I mean 79 79 side yard here their yard look relatively flat I would imagine it continues to uh 21st 21st their yards I drove five and walk their yards or anything I assume they continue to slope down that direction uh visually their yards look relatively flat though uh but yeah we will be higher it's existing conditions we're higher so the existing crossload there is 76 now but you're going up to 79 so you're picking up another 3 ft what we 21st Street there on the other side of 21st Street the house suly higher there so you're going to have a water shed of water going down and going down again if you have I mean that's not their issue but I mean when it comes to rains and when it comes to heavy rains do you have a water flow that goes down those streets that at 20th Street you're waiting so what we are I think what we are saying that there's a water issue right now without increasing it so what do we do to to stop it as Mr maio said introduce a retaining wall another lateral something yeah we need a full storm Water Analysis the entire area uh the catch basins are not size uh for the houses that have been built I don't think our catch Basin have ever been sized since Dr disco well this is you I mean uh so our our problem is again it's not their problem their problem is their property and their Grant on their property our problem is is throughout town our catch Bas are not sized for the increased in per structure that has been built in town we don't have to catch Basin even you can clean them all day long it doesn't matter our that's okay thank you let me see what else I miss don't worry we'll catch iterate [Music] sorry I'm just trying to pull this up I think have there is just little little Hydraulic Engineering as far as the water coming off obviously you're catching all the water the roof is going down uh usually uh I think we tou them asked that we asked them to put dry Wells at the corners of the building usually kind of catch some of that hold some of that and then tear it down with with your slope you're probably going to have to go down tear it hold it tear it hold it maybe I don't know I mean you have to numbers it's doable it's just yeah and I agree with the board members comment but you know Tak all might give them a backyard more Mar um to reiterate uh we discussed the parking already but there are there's space in the driveways for two uh cars we have from this kind of look at the curve here where the green area is it's a little bit closer but still 20 ft there 20t wide so you b two cars there and one car in the garage so we meet ordinance in terms of parking uh put visual context on where we're thinking about the AC units uh I know the drawing's busy but you can see the dash line again the building envelope so 5 foot uh side yards required we actually have 10 on each lot so you have 20 foot here um so we have room with that exceeding side yard we'll still be within that envelope we could fit the AC units on either side here in the middle uh screen them but for them as needed any trade Yes actually yeah quick clarification I think the pl report South Side I think you referring to unless my is wrong but I think you refering to this tree for Street tree uh so that tree is staying and we would uh plant another one either in between the driveways or on this corner to be determined but have requiring two Street TRS there you guys brought up the landscape wall but I'll point it out here on the on the southern side again I think we just kind of talked about the graving um at length there but some landscape walls um on the southern side to accommodate that that great change of U make the site work to the neighbors and I'm just going to reiterate you have no problem working uh with Harbor um and addressing all their comments and complying with the comments from the both planning report and the harbor letter correct that's correct um I think I really I covered everything the next Sheet's just our construction details um pretty [Music] standard or obviously any other questions on just I'm just noticing a note here on the um back to the dry Wells um at the ridg line you're you're you're talking you know on the footprint of the house U with an arrow pointing to a rear drywell and a front drywell was that that's a previous version yes we were originally going to have dry wheels in the front uh didn't really didn't really work so yeah so we have we' got a couple little bit of clean up the street name remove that uh anything else Kevin has a question oh Kevin I'm sorry that's all right CH uh just to throw into the mix I have my Google Earth application open in front of me and one of the parts of that is an elevation land elevation number um and I rely on Christian to make sure I seen this prop but the back of the property 320 is shown at about 93 ft and this is not accurate but it's within within a number and it shows the back of the property to the rear the one with the built-in pool in 92 ft and there's an additional property up South to the rear which is shown at 93 ft above gra so that's what that says Chris you yeah not on my on my app don't know if that helps or not no it helps of course it does2 I know there was something in the ordinance about you know going uh when you're constructing new development and doing a basement that you do a u you to see what the water level the US yeah we'll check that we got to get the permeability to for the dry Wells so we'll we'll be doing uh test fits in the rear yard there checking that up yes sir yes so there's been a lot of discussion obviously about the properties behind and the slope down but I'm also wondering I'm not hearing too much talk about the properties on the side because you have I think two different elevations the house you standing in front of the house to the left is more probably level but then the house to the right is down a slope and so if the elevation is being changed like in the rear you know what happens what happens and South have you addressed that there's a wall [Music] here surve a little cleaner but we do have a wall here on the southide um the Maxum is 3 ft or so um I think it's the other theow on the right [Music] side go down oh yeah the can we just digress a second because I think we're having for conversations it's getting confusing right on the left side of your plan you have a retaining wle right and what Mr maio what Mr maio was saying if you put something to the rear of the house that will stop the Deluge of water going over to flatten it out flatten it out you could actually have a different type of grade you could load it with stone you could do it all kinds of things and fine itself but now to the right side of the house is what you're right side of the property which is this side here well Mr David is saying that there's a big drop off there too he knows the property better than all of us he's right there let me give me a second if you look if you look on one more the straight on 21st Street is probably even with the gutter line of the house behind it that's how much it drops down story behind it minutes I mean we drop off we have to concern ourselves with that but we also have to take a look at what's there now existing and what are you doing what do you what are you changing to make that worse or better right worse so there's an existing wall on on that property here um I'm not seeing honestly elevations on our plans um but our intent on this side is to tie into the existing uh phography over there I it looks like we Mr B you you didn't draw that plan no I drew it uh no I was to be a fa I'm saying no I I'm just I didn't do the survey we have separate survey elevation you know normally we get a couple of shots on either property to tie our uh Contour in I'm I'm sure they do have some shots in this area bottom line that's that's a retaining wall right and you're changing um you're your uh you're you're cutting the grade or or you raising the grade filling it yeah you're filling it you're filling it so the question is is anything that you're doing compromising that wall depending based on the way that it's currently um acting you know so what so if you're filling it will that wall be able to handle it because that's a lower we're assuming it's um that house is down lower is what you're saying significantly if you haven't been there I mean I grew up in that area definitely i w by all the time old jewelry used to own that house he built it and so anyway the driveway goes way down it's it's almost like on the corner of Oak and in the North 21st so structurally if you're filling this wall here you know driveway down to the front of this house okay so I yeah I you guys saying um we we could excuse me see if that that wall can handle mechanic getting more soil more fill once you fill it you want to kind of like try to match you want to try to match that grade or at least make sure the wall is strong enough to handle the fill push up against yeah so we can yeah we can confirm you know what the elevation change you know is there that ws up a retaining wall that wall to keep everything on that side I got to just asked the question I got to ask the question why why are we talking about this now and this wasn't seen before you got here when wasn't seen before we got you know why why wasn't this address I mean you have you have the you have the opportunity to draw that in there if we're talking about it now I feel like we're redoing your plan that's just an oversight on us on the gra on the back I think it's a pretty simple solution of putting a retainable oh it is yeah that's a simple solution but I don't need to waste your time you know was my time I choose to be here but my my point is is it just gets frustrating sometimes you know it's we we we see this minus subdivisions are usually very very simple and we should have been out of here 15 minutes ago and quite honestly you know when you see things like this we have to concern ourselves with the neighbors and the people around us and what the we we're never going to stop that war no matter if we level it up or whatever it's just going to come we get that but just it would be prudent that we just had some systems in place already before you got here and it just makes it a little bit easier understood I apologize yes sir I'm sorry possibility the chair may wish to consider um there need it appears that there needs to be some work done on this and maybe over the next month Mr quo Mr Bachi can get together present something to the board and come back in January rather than you guys and all very qualified people we engineer this that's I'm yeah and may maybe when you come back you can bring some I don't know what you would call them whether you call renderings or not a render surrendering or something that shows topography either side with with your fill your cut whatever and your walls you know on the third page here in your architect Wars it kind of shows like a the grading on the side but it doesn't really hit on how it's going to affect djon properties and that's what the focus this right that's the way to bring it to a head tonight and whatever you bring in guys come back I'm sorry go ahead detail yeah we sorry I'm not but a suggestion and maybe it's not possible but if we lowered the basement maybe the deeper basement now you're not changing the grade so much either have a walk basement as it is we'll talk about that in a minute Mr SC what what to to the point made earlier like we're designing their plans and we have to be careful you have to figure out what can be built there without affecting in a major way your surrounding neighbors you suggestion no just to note um it is our belief that the wall the retaining wall on the neighboring property is higher so the soil is not if nothing's going to like go over it or anything because it's already tall retaining wall um but we wouldn't mind putting another retain wall just for the to to for the I I don't know what word I'm trying to find see right we have to see that we we can't if if the board is going to have to superimpose that well I think this is it well then I think we should give an approval we're giving an approval on what's there right obviously and and you should show us you should prove it to us that this is what we're going to that's basically over yeah so it seems that we're all saying the same thing you haven't really demonstrated how this is going to be corrected except every time we ask a question I'm going to put up a wall I'm going to put up another drain I'm going to do this and now we're redesigning the we're redesigning the plan I think it would be uh again I'll use the word prudent that maybe uh your team gets together with the engineer and talks about what some of the measures um going forward today come back a plan and we'll be happy to uh look at this at at at the next hearing I just think there's too much going on go ahead Mr I'm sorry to interrupt when you're done sh I'm done the next hearing is January 9th and in order for the board to review any new plans they'd have to be in by December 26 um we are T I'm sorry go ahead you done so if the applicant can or cannot meet that they should advis us for the January or February is a better day so the other thing is is that um we're looking at one specific area right is there any weency that we could give in order to um make it work make it make it okay only nothing CH yes yes sir I I know I wouldn't say we're redesigned here I think the design especially with storm water the design we have we are producing the runoff we're meeting the standards you know there was a comment about increased speed a bit but we overall uh I know if you guys looked at the report two-year storm we reducing by something 95% you know but I think it was designed properly the storm water I I do hear your your concerns and we will address them um I just don't know if I characterize that as as needing a full read design um and I think the grading you know I think it works I do apologize we don't have the grades of the neighbor property there but I think you know us saying that we're going to add a retaining wall um I don't think it's a subst change personal So to that point we said a retaining wall but you don't think that's a good idea so our redesign has already been projected by you we we'll take into consideration all your comments tonight we will revise the plans and submit updated plans so that you guys can see the the retaining wall there um you will add a little bit of the grading from from the neighboring property can I just clarify if I may interrupt you just said you will show you a retaining wall there that was a suggestion by us yeah but if you go back to drawing board and said you don't need a retaining wall and you could tell us why you don't and you are going to do something else that's what we need to say we have a concern we'll we'll take all your concerns into consider consideration and we will we will provide a revised uh plan and explain what we have done or what doesn't work okay will you be conferring with Christian yes we will work with Christian sorry just Mr chairman so are we going to continue this or not just move forward we're going to continue it find a date next year January February let's move this along December 26 or late January For an upcoming year we can be ready for the January 9th meeting okay okay January the chair may wish to consider carrying this application to January 9th yeah and uh as your staff would me put a record I'm under the night in Philadelphia that day but I will have somebody here okay what date is that the 9th January 9th January guaranteed it's a Thursday so we we need a motion to carry the hearing to that before we go to the motion did you have something to say what date was that sorry January 9th January 9th 700 p.m. in this room no further notice that's required that's our reor date unless unless the CH if the plans change significantly I don't know if they're going to since we're not dealing with acres and acres of land if the plans change significantly you may want to you may have to know this but I doubt that's going to happen here Min stuff we didn't notice to begin with yeah well okay but I'm just saying if if we do something that we do that triggers a variance or anything which but we won't we won't re notice as long as the application stays in present shape for a minor subdivision qualif last so let let me bring something to your attention um January 9th is our reorg and we don't normally have hearings on the reor night um um we could have two meetings in January or carry it to February but uh so let let's let's do this this is a minor subdivision right um if I hate to say that too right if this thing comes back and it the things are corrected can we stay and we can hear it that's our choice yeah I'm not opposed to I'm just saying we don't we don't normally do it but it's fine is anybody is anyone oppos better than having a second meeting I'd rather just Flo through it that's yeah I was leav here but I'm trying to be accommodating what do you want to do do what Frank is say maybe you know next week have another meeting okay focused on this so what's the following Thursday 16th 16th just got to make sure we're all here you know are you I have to check my calendar but if I'm not Mr David or Mr maio can take the home yeah I mean I don't I'm not going to be away in January I don't think I'll be that we that's third Thursday damn it um you'll be here I'm you good it doesn't have to be a Thursday you know our normal schedule is a Thursday but if we're calling a special meeting we we can have on Tuesday Wednesday do we have to set this special schedule tonight you would sorry in order to maintain jurisdiction you've got to say tonight when it's continued to um and as long as you've got five members you've got a quorum so you can proceed okay and then you'll get additional members who aren't here this evening who may be Avail okay just let's take a look at this real quick so the night this Quorum the following Thursday we have people already who can't be here where am I going to be 16 yes for the 16th for me as long as we have five people are you good minimum You're Number Four I'm good on the 16th who else you're good that's three no we got five oh we got five you guys okay with that January 16th okay so they're coming in the 16th okay okay so you right yeah are you good cat for the 16 I'll have a patch but I'll be here keep it up you going get a patch on both Sid try sor will still get the plans by the 26th or second by Jan second is fine J we all know nothing happens another world second is fine okay electronic and paper to the Bur thank you and if you review everything that you got going on it would be the time to do it okay is there a motion to I'm sorry I if I interrupted did you guys want to say anything else no okay well I'll save all my clothing for for when we finish this perfect is there a motion to continue this hearing on the 16th motion B by uh Mr scary second Mr pantina roll call did we say 7 o' chairman yes we did but 7M 7 p.m. right um do you want to make it earlier I think that's reasonable okay because it's no Workshop or anything all right 7:00 is fine okay oh yes Mr Cerna yes Mr David yes Mr Clen Mr Pina yes Mr yes Mr yes and Mr Del yeah okay so Mr there is an adjacent property owner in the audience so just so it's clear that we're going to be postponing this meeting so okay yeah I guess that would be additional be any additional notice chair may wish to see if there's any say questions so can I just uh ask a question before everybody leaves uh because I know we just voted on that I don't know and and my colleagues here could uh tell me if I did something wrong just then even though we were carrying this to the 16th was I supposed to open this to the public tonight or because it's being carried yes I was supposed to open it to the public tonight um huh either okay either okay but we didn't reach that part of the application right yeah we we haven't seen the final plan okay so so like all the testimony hasn't been heard yet so let me say this for the people out there we normally open it to the public for their comments when we're inside the application but because we're carrying this I didn't do that um and we would just talk about hello chairman let correct that it's not comments it's questions on the testimony heard this evening okay that's what's open tonight that's what's open tonight of course we can do that for you if you like but if not that's fine okay we good well we want to make sure we're following protocol here okay I want you to understand back here January 16th 7:00 they're going to submit new plans to Burl Hall on January 2 if you'd like to see them call the building office on January 2 3D whatever your pleas is and ask to come in and see those plans okay okay okay all right um comments for the go to the board I'm sorry guys I'm done I just wanted to make sure I followed the right procedure okay thank you very much thank you time happy Holidays happy holidays thank you our best any comments for the go to the board thank you just like to wish everybody happy holidays Merry Christmas Happ New Year okay every same same to everyone happy holidays and um happy Christmas I'm sorry happy Christmas I don't think want to start okay um uh motion to open uh greig some mov moved okay anyone from the public wishing to speak seeing none CL Clos by Mr David second by Mr pantina all in favor motion to adj anyone may I answer your previous question yes sir so we just closed our session right no we still you still open jge yet okay the present need for affordable housing is 35 units that's Rehabilitation and the need over between 2025 and 2035 is 208 units okay no that's re I'm done thank you thank you now I'll motion to adj motion to adjourn made by Mr David second by Mr CL all in favor okay