e e [Music] e e um The Time Is Now 6:47 the date is Wednesday March 12 2025 commissioner vendetti is absent um all other members are present
we'll take a roll call to open uh Buzz Hi Marilyn hi um dot Hi Megan hi Jims and I oh I'm sorry we're missing missing Brian so commission
Brian pay is missing as well uh please note that we're doing a hybrid meeting with inperson and virtual attendance if a meeting of the virtual public would like to make comments during the public hearing please use the raise a hand function on zoom and you will be assigned to speaking time if you're listening in Via telephone dialing press
start St 9 to raise your hand and press star six to unmute yourself this meeting is being recorded by the local scene and in record of this meeting will be posted on the local scene website as soon as they are able anyone intending to make a audio or video recording of this meeting
should notify the chair at this time seeing none we'll move forward we have an announcement Kingston's open space committee is still looking uh for a new member the committee assists conservation in overseeing the management and use
conservation properties to help all of us better access and utilize the resources in a positive way this is an opportunity for Resident to assist in implementing the town's open space plan help improve parking and trails and identify future conservation and passive
Recreation priorities in town among other benefits you may inquire by calling the conservation department at 7817 um sorry 781 5855 37 or bu emailing
Juliana J Dunham Kingston mass. um ma.com go that's jde n u m k i n GST o n m.gov signing documents with the agent Bree uh brief us on what needs to be
signed yeah we got bills from environmental Partners group for ms4 support BS and Thomas for construction oversight on samsons BG Headwaters restoration project WB Mason for office supplies and a mileage reimbursement for myself right here then we should jump
back jump right into here these came here yeah aggregated yep all set all right so um hearings whereas that 650 will move to hearings section A 10 Shore Drive notice of intent for the proposed construction
of two additions to a single family house with Coastal buffer zones I now reopen a hearing for the notice of intent for the proposed construction of additions to a single family house at 10 Shore Drive within the buffer zones to several Coastal resource
areas um agent you want to kick us off did anybody miss the first meeting on this or was everybody in attendance I was here I was here was here okay just making sure um so we've already gone through a lot of
this um I had some updates from recent information that was submitted um decking came out less than the 38 which wasn't really something that mattered like I said before it appeared perious
and they did confirm that spacing measures it slightly less and a quarter inch with crushed stone beneath um so they've redone the calculations to show the existing deck as perious um though it doesn't meet the commission standards that they require when they issue a
permit for something that's perious um they updated materials to include now two proposed drywalls um they are sied for the 10year storm and I believe they do not include the um runoff from the front of the house just from the peak
correct the ridg line back in the addition um no test pit data they did provide the nrcs soil profile characteristics and uh said that um so would be assessed before the project would start um there was a slight expansion in
the updated plan of mitigation plantings um to me it looked like probably 220 to 225 Square ft it still said 210 on the plan uh 210 is what was submitted before um but it had notably expanded I think to the northern property line uh with
the addition of a 2-in caliper native tree um and a as also a native tree to replace the one that was cut down uh without a permit conservation posts are now shown to protect the mitigation plantings uh we talked
about variances we did receive update um March 5th but I did uh let them know that two additional variance requests would be needed and I believe they have prepped provided that at this point sent that over to you
um after assessing the deck as the existing deck as perious the existing impervious coverage is 29% and they now propos an increase to 35% can I just uh just because this is the first time I'm seeing it just for my
clarification I believe in the original plans we weren't taking off any of the decking um but it looks on this one that you add taking off the decking is that correct so the original plan was to remove the decking for the construction
of the addition and then essentially build it back in kind in the same exact location minus the footprint of the decking um so that'll be proposed and noted on the plan as uh composite decking with the adequate 3/8 inch
minimum spacing and a crush Stone surface below basically just going in the same exact footprint around the addition so Matt just on that note that you were saying it sounds like now there's opportunity to actually check off the Box on that is is that's what I'm hearing yeah essentially it would
like currently it is pervious in the sense it does pass water through and the water likely infiltrates um having it be at 38 and documented in an order of conditions and a COC a plan of record would make it perious going
forward you would put a condition a special condition on the OC saying that the deck would stay in a 38 spacing condition in perpetuity That Couldn't then the next time somebody changed the you know the boards out it wouldn't be you know tight
but the numbers did it does it affect the numbers that you're talking right now or okay no um because basically the the first time we saw this it was pitched as an impervious deck being converted to a portion of it being
converted into impervious structure part in addition to the house and now what we're seeing is the deck and its current state is pervious and a portion of it would be converted to impervious structure
I'll just um finish running through what I have and then um he can give an update on sort of what they've done um so I talked already about the variance requests um that there's a slight uptick and square footage of
mitigation plantings addition of a second dryw uh connecting the existing downspouts on the rear of the house um the detail shows the coverage area recharged and again the dryway walls are rated to handle the 10-year storm um kwp
typically requires that storm water systems be designed to handle the 100-year storm but there's no requirement for storm water systems for single family house Lots this is just being offered as a mitigation feature so there's no requirement to have it but still it's it's um something the
commission could discuss um and I basically wrote that that the commission may have questions regarding the benefit of the dry Wells where so many storms now exceed that 10year threshold I'm not sure one way or the
other if it if it does or doesn't um I would say the project pretty clearly passes the standards of the wetlands protection act um it's kwp and the impervious surface calculations where it runs into issue and where I think the
commission needs to determine or decide if they have enough information to determine whether what you see is enough to mitigate a 6% rise in impervious surface
um up to 35% you know KW PR has that Max 15% but a lot of properties on the Nook are already well over 15% um but we've had other filings recently where they're able to stay you
know without adding impervia surface or offer mitigation that clearly outweighs um so I I don't know in this case whether it does or doesn't I think that's up for the commission to to determine um I sort of wrote that the plantings
and the drywalls may be enough I wrote May because again I'm not sure one way or the other but may be sufficient to mitigate the increase given that the current conditions are far from ideal from a runoff perspective um right now you have just a property where all the
runoff goes off the roof and the rest of the property and goes right out over the revetment wall and into the bay um so the commission could come to a determination through group discussion they could look for a second opinion they could ask for more information
um you know we discussed the updated proposal calling for the remaining portion being spaced out to 38 that would ensure that it continues to drain and you could make that a Perpetual special condition on any OC's issued which would continue on to the COC and
make sure it stays that way um already talked about the tree one last thing you know I mentioned before just the shellfish growing area down there um just pointing out for the record the project is landward of the resource area that would be called land
containing shellfish um that's defined in kpr and CMR um I don't know if the commission needs to have that on a plan or not um basically in this situation the bay is land containing shellfish um but
that's just sort of a clerical thing but ties into sort of everything I've been talking about about you know improving runoff conditions is definitely beneficial a lot of properties right now on the Nook are non-compliant pre-existing and are causing issues with
the bay so that that should definitely be an area of focus that's all I got I have a question sure there's a considerable amount of um stone walkway it looks like all stone
that goes to the front and then all the way back to the back as well um could some of that be replace that is that built so that it's permeable or not and if it's not could some of that be be replaced or
removed uh I would not consider it Chris Anderson with meral Engineers by the way for the record um I would consider it impervious area um you know stone pavers with mortar in between okay um so you know we we could potentially look at
that my train of thought was you know kind of ripping that out during construction is is causing more disturbance um than necessary uh you know we believe with the incorporation of uh the two dry Wells which now will
capture the runoff from the ridge line of the house to the back including the addition that's over 600 square ft um they will be capturing and infiltrating in the into the ground essentially they won't be directly discharging to the resource areas um you know currently I
think there's just a a drainage pipe daylighted from from the roof drain that goes right out into the Coastal Bank um so you know we're we're really trying to make um you know that our case that the
the benefits of you know reducing that Overland flow of of storm water down to the uh resource areas along with a nice planted native buffer zone right um you know just like see some a lot of this walkway is Superfluous now maybe it
could just be removed yeah that's move if I think if everybody is in agreement with that that's definitely something that we can discuss be done after construction yeah yeah and that's all existing correct that's all existing
I I was just making sure that it was all existing and yeah please as that question last that runs is this your mic on there is correct so it is a you know traveled access
path Buzz is your mic on no so repeat for the microphone so I I did ask that question last week and that path that you see running from the driveway and banging a left and going down the side of the house goes to a
door that enters into the house um so that is a used walkway you know it's it's there for a reason it's not just extra are you keeping that door as well as the new covered porch so you'll have two entries I believe so the
the side back door will stay corre um can I can I ask a question the um the square footage of this house is it just a the roof line is just a regular split correct right and and the the actual footprint of the house what are we
talking we're probably looking at about 32 feet wide by you know 28 feet deep at the deepest portion and looking to bump that out an additional you know 5et with the addition so plusus
450 ft on half yeah so so I calculated the you know the ridg line back plus the addition at 627 Square ft um so you're looking at you know 1100 ft total and what's the 2% increase on the on the um
impervious map 6% it was 6% what's the number do you have that 20 you mean the square footage yeah what's what's that 6% equal if if it the reason why I'm asking is if if they're catching 600 feet worth of runoff and putting it into
a you know just ground discharge the impervious is really about you know ground recharge right so it's about 260 square feet is that 6% increase so if if we're getting 600 ft of of ground discharge in return for 200 feet more
impervious it's feeling that that's that's something that breaks in that direction 262 yeah so that's Mr chair so that was going to be my point is that you know currently the water just sheets across the ground I I know we say that deck is perious but the ground underneath it is
not perious the water just runs across and goes into the B There is um Crush Stone underneath the deck now underneath I don't know how thick the crush stone is there could be a a hard layer under that from a practical standpoint when it's raining heavy the water is running across the yach and going all the back
right right so my argument would be that now we're retaining the water and with the size of two drywalls and we're allowing that water to leech into the soil rather than running off the bank I would consider that a net Improvement rather than even I know
we're increasing you know on paper you know impervious surface but I feel like we're you know it sounds like we're about a 2 to one two to one better so 600 to 300 call it so I I feel like it's a win I I I mean I I'll pay back
off that with with what I was saying earlier right I I get that you know at some point the ground's going to saturate and it's going to run across but I think that anytime that we can grab water in this area and put it down below surface even if it's just a 10-year capacity meaning
that we don't probably have too much more capacity than that we could get to you know for 100 years we're we're doing something better and you know when we when it comes down to these tyes of variances and especially in this neighborhood where there's a lot of impervious surface you know we got to
look at not perfect but we did something better and and and I think that that's uh I I think I'm in agreement with buzz when it comes down to that I had a question please question please I'm just curious why you made it 10
year so just with the limited yeah the limited room we kind of have in the back there I just I I did a couple different sizing methods just you know the cubic feet of storage in the drywall how much Stone I Put um you you know a lot of every every Town's different but a lot
of Standards you know for Street Drainage Systems pipes are sized for a 10-year design storm um you know that's basically saying a storm of that size only happens once every 10 years uh so in storm events larger all that's going
to happen and I I tend to think those numbers are actually conservative that you know our our storm water management software calculates um but essentially the the pipe will just backflow to an overflow down spout that has a little Stone Splash Pad there um and
essentially roof runoff is considered clean runoff um you know you don't get the the debris sediment that's in a typically in a roadway that we really don't want going to the resource areas um so that's kind of where I came up with that one from from that perspective
we've had a lot of discussion on that over the years here um there's lots of things that people spray up on their roof that shouldn't be put into a res are so let's just let's let's not go on that angle because then we have to argue about it but from from the from the
impervious and the runoff you know I think I think I think I see exactly where where you're at and I don't disagree with it so um more questions can you so assuming we were
going to move this m we have the Varan is all writing that we need and we can just say as requested yes um You' want to talk special conditions I know we talked some of these before uh we talked about conservation post and
perpetuity um detailing the allowance for maintenance of the mitigation area is always important um we had the thing about the herbicides yeah there was an additional this there was a proposal for additional stockpile
of silck on this project right uh yes yeah I fored just to put that as to be reviewed as part of the pre-work ESC check because a lot of times that shows up on the proposal and never happens um that's kind of hard for me to track sometimes um any dumpster that's used as
part of this project must be covered uh you have a lot of projects in this area that stay open a lot of things blow out and we don't want that happening in the bay um if there's any specifics anybody would like to talk about with that as far as how that could actually work uh that would be good no they they have you
can request a talk for the don't okay and then um what did I mention earlier the decking so the usual like you said the chemicals and fertilizers no um The Narrative does State no pesticides and herbicides within the 100 foot buffer
zone only organic fertilizers um I've noted that organic fertilizers can be just as damaging in close proximity to Coastal resource areas um but better better than the alternative anyways and then assuming
that we have again I'm just making some assumptions assuming that this moves forward and they come for their certificate of compliance what are we looking for for a grow period to make sure that these plants are going to
survive that's up to the commission um in some cases you know I think in typically enforcement situations there's several years of monitoring and Reporting um for mitigation I mean
I don't know I mean that like I said you want you want something in there that details how they can maintain it so they not it's not really a no touch area the way in some areas it is not going to have trees growing but as long as it grows
densely that should be fine I mean if you want to set something like you know you could do a continuing condition on a COC that says that you know we need to have a check on that after two or three years and that if the coverage doesn't approximate 75%
that they need to put in extra plantings or seed or something like that could do something like that so I'm still stuck on some of these numbers because to to go from 29 to 35 I I'm just when Matt mentions mitigation
I'm just wondering if there's anything else you would consider from the perspective of mitigation that we haven't discussed here I mean you you talked about the dry Wells leaving it at the 10 year end yeah so the the drywalls
are are capturing proposing to capture over half of the existing roof plus the addition right now we're capturing none of it so that's one uh the buffer zone plantings were offering uh area equal to the size of that addition um the
addition being in a previously Disturbed area which at first we were considering swap impervious for impervious um again I think that question is still in the air a little bit the decking has insufficient spacing some Crush tone below but you know during larger storm
events that water will make its way down um having inter for one one second just because we' talked about this a couple times and I'm not trying to sound against that as a concept but we've talked about in large storms that's going to break out that's going
to do that anyways when we're talking about 10year storms happening every 10 years that's not the case like that's I think pretty well documented at this point that we're getting the 10year storm pretty frequently um so I agree that getting stuff into the ground and I'm a big fan of mitigation plantings we
are seeing real improvements here um but in terms of the concept that you know as is right now with the perious deck that is going to blow out in bigger storms that's going to happen here after this is done absolutely um in assuming that
this mitigation area does completely grow in and stabilize and start doing what it's supposed to do and set Deep Roots stabilize the bank provide habitat filter out contaminants it's going to be a while so for a while you're you're absolutely going to continue to have
sort of the condition that you have now and the the one other item that we haven't actually discussed yet that I want to mention that came up uh from a good comment during in the previous hearing um so we have been Consulting with a design build firm uh relative to
the construction of the addition and uh you know we have decided that we will be moving forward if all approved with helical pile construction for the addition as well so that won't be you know a large excavation uh concrete being poured back there uh the deck the
new deck will be on helical piles um so so really to me you know the helical piles are say 9 in 12 in of diameter I was told by the design build company that they would likely only need four or six for the addition um so to me that kind of really minimizes impact and
there's probably less structural components that are going to be here after with the addition in the actual ground and for the current deck um so that's just okay something I had to ask no nope no worries all good how deep do those go H hang on on on that on the
comment about the foundation just because this came to us now and I didn't have time to look other um other um the the storm Flowage fence still Incorporated in this so I did different project it's not this project no no
we're elev we're elev okay we're elevated above all right all right all right all good I I did the same thing was wait a minute thought sorry can I what are the depth of the piles expected to be these you know I think
that's something that's determined when they're out there you know Drilling and it hits that certain torque number um I wouldn't what's it typ is it typically pretty you know I think for these situations if it's real sanding material it probably ends up pretty pretty deep
but I I wouldn't even know where to begin all right just and my only reason I bring that up is that we had there was another project that was going to be I believe just on normal piles and then when they went to build the project realized that there was ledge really close and they could no longer do that
so they needed to come back and try to get an amendment to use a different support type and um the amendment process is not great just thinking in advance I don't know if now is the basically now is the time
to discuss the potential for other options if that's not going to work or just to have other language in there or something just so that you don't have to come back for an amendment if the engineering once you're on site and assessing shows something different let me break that down so your concern is
that they won't be able to drive the P of sufficient depal and they'll have to switch to some type of pin Foundation such as a s tube on the ledge something yeah and then I have to try to determine if that's something I should be signing off on in the office or something that should be
going in front of the commission and whether they have to go do our usual obnoxious long process of amendment uh whereas right now just some difference in language or something a note on the plan or a a special condition or
something could get past any issue okay I'll try to weave that good luck additional comments public online I do not see
any make a motion to close the he second we have a motion to close uh in a second we'll take a rooll buzz Hi Marilyn hi dot Hi Megan hi Jim and I uh so that carries perhaps we have a motion and this is a notice of intent
correct correct so I might need some help with this motion so I'll accept friendly amendments so I'm going to make a motion to approve the project as designed on the revised plans with the approval of the variances
listed with the standard conditions with the additional conditions as read and with the understanding that the preference is for helical piles but if they do
encounter uh ledge or difficult conditions they can come back and with photographic evidence demonstrate to the agent that they can't use Halal plows and they can switch to 8 in s tubes on
top of allege with concrete friendly Amendment with approval from the agent I think I said that but yes okay second all right so we have a motion we have a second we'll take a roll Buzz Hi
Marlin hi dot Hi Megan hi Jim and I as passes thanks everyone thank you Lu very all right we'll move on to section B two brry Avenue it's a notice of
intent I reopen a hearing for a notice of intent tent propos proposing construction of additions to a single family house at two brry Avenue within the buffer zones to several Coastal resource areas and lands subject to Coastal storm Flowage does the agent
have any comments um let's have Nick give a little presentation while I grab my notes Mr L good evening Nicholas L from great Consul um hang on second can we turn him up please all right please how's that sounding
much better thank you awesome uh so yeah Nicholas L from gr Consulting here on behalf of ver McCarthy for two Ranch reab in Kingston uh would you like me to share my screen and put up the revise copy of the plan for you sure
please can everybody see that yeah you definitely need to zoom in oh absolutely absolutely okay so um when we came before you last we had two proposed additions before you uh one is an infill of an existing overhang in the rear and
then the other addition in the front um as an offset to the additions we have proposed to remove the walk brick walkway and a portion of the asphalt driveway to keep the impervious service coverage at the uh same value and we had also proposed
nine smart vents in the foundation of existing dwelling in an effort to um solidify the structure against storm Waters and the commission had asked us to add some mitigation plantings in addition to the smart vents so what
we've done here is we've added uh almost 350 square fet of mitigation plantings we have 21 um what are they Virginia roses I believe yep Virginia roses what is existing right along the top of the bank there we believe are Beach roses so
kind of a similar look so that it should blend in nicely uh but the Virginia roses are considered more native species so I went with those instead and it is labeled as a one to one mitigation it is actually a little bit more than a one toone mitigation um but uh we have 270
square feet I believe it is yes there it is that at the bottom 270 sare ft of um addition being put in there but again we are offsetting that by removing the walkway so this is really a free 345 ft of mitigation planting and would be
happy to answer any questions or comments that the commission has Matt do you have comments um medication area species appropriate no conservation posts shown so without conservation posts and detailed
conditions sorry on the mitigation area uh no conservation posts are shown so without conservation posts and the detailed special condition on how to maintain the area uh it's not really mitigation more of a landscape bed so I would recommend conservation posts to
line that area uh everything we got was updated as requested uh we did get the formal variance requests that's all set um request appears to meet the standards of
WPA and kwp except where the variance is requested uh buffer planting proposed as mitigation for the variance request appears sufficient provided that conservation posts are shown and um added as a special condition along with
the typical special condition about maintenance of that area allowable maintenance um I would recommend issuance of OC's with special conditions um same one about the dumpster any dumpster used as part of this project must be covered um the blurb about
outdoor chemicals and fertilizers and conservation posts okay we'll open up for discussion uh I'll start I I believe last time we discussed this I had asked about um infiltration through Dry Wells did you
did uh did you look at that with you Cent uh I believe the consensus was that the soil Rock are so variable that mitigation planting is were of the favorite method the conversation that we had last time uh Mr Ling was that I would like
you to look into it um so that so that we could say that we looked into what was proper for the site this was a the the time to fix it and this is uh this is subject to previous enforcement because there is problems with um with
runoff so is it your answer that you did not not look into it because you just decided to go with the mitigation U my notes reflected that your your commission's preference at the end of the conversation was for mitigation I do not have any notes reflecting request for us to look into a
drve okay my specific comments to you was to please look into it so we'll agree to disagree on that one Matt you get something yeah I think um I think I remember that as well but I think because this one was not increased
impervious surface then um the mitigation planting is probably sufficient what I and I did mention this to the homeowner on the site visit my recommendation would be to plant a tree in the front yard roughly in the place
of the large tree that was cut down a couple years ago um and preferably for the homeowner or anybody in the area a tree that would eventually get to some sort of decent size um really need something down there
that's going to absorb water and the idea NE isn't necessarily that during a larger storm a tree is going to immediately suck up tons of water but it will be constantly doing that therefore allowing more of it to get into the soil and stay rather than run
off on the surface so um again I don't know that that needs to be a special condition or anything but I would recommend planting a native tree in the front yard yard so that it can start to get started doing that task and the existing Foundation could you explain to
me what the existing Foundation is that you put in the v uh the existing Foundation is an older Foundation I believe it's cinder block and mortar if I recall correctly crawl space or or or basement there is a crawl space it's not a basement um how how
deep is the footing do you know uh I don't know it it's it's pretty filled in um with dirt and sand in the Celler so I'm there's maybe two and a half ft of free space above the dirt till you get to the uh top end of the foundation but
that again that varies it was kind of dark I I I'd have to pull for memory on that it looked pretty variable to me did you see the foundation or just the just looking looking through um and I believe it was all covered in plastic there was plastic on the ground
but it was kind of variable plus no I mean really so I was on the commission when you were having the water issue when did you end up with the water issue with the that was a previous owner they sold yeah and so that's resolved or still
open um so we got a I believe an email or a phone call from them saying that I think the highway department did something in the road like a little somebody did something in the area that was very minor and then they weren't
having the same flooding issue okay so I think they're I think anyways from memory that it is that they thought maybe that it hadn't actually been from the neighbor but was from the street all yeah I know I remember that discussion that there was missing some BM at the
road yeah so I think ultimately that was the just on on that discussion Buzz across the street directly across brry Avenue there's there's a new house or an expanded house that was a small little cape and it became something much bigger with slope driveway so there's a lot of
water pulling pouring off as runoff running down the driveway hitting it running AC cross and I think that that's probably where it was cuz if they fixed it with a little BM it's it it's pretty pretty pretty telling that the fix was for a reason right okay so these are new
owners not the people that were here last night correct and these are the owners she's up on the screen oh she's on the screen okay um so agreed we need Foundation I mean
uh conservation post 100% I like the fact that they're putting in you know plantings I agree with you I'd like to see a tree maybe can be over by that shed so it's not blocking the view from the house because obviously that's what they're paying
for uh and and um other than that it seems pretty straightforward to me I'd even put the tree in the front yard this plant I think is a little deceiving in the background detail there there is no tree where it's says 68.7 in the front yard
that that tree's gone the one where it says d d you saying FR so you saying Street side street that tree right that tree right there is gone both of those are gone that's a backyard that's a backyard I understand I'm just telling
you that's why I'm clarifying no I mean it's all there were um yeah I remember that there were cedar trees planted by the shed as part of the enforcement okay right well away from the trees that were cut down yeah so in that case then yeah I'd like to see a nice tree in the front yard and we should specify you know like
a 4in caliber you know something substantial okay um so I heard Buzz recommend a minimum 4 in tree um do Megan did you want to pursue the downspout question or not I I I'm
adamant about exploring that um this this area is problematic um we just went through something similar on on very similar area um and that's why I brought it up last time so um I feel very strongly about that but I'm just one
person so I no I I think it's important I do um more comments from the commission I agree I just think with the history of this site and the site next to it and the one we just had before this they're basically the
same the whole except that one was going up in the previous coverage and this one stayed the same by taking some impropriate surface away now from a practical standpoint not a strictly permitting and checking the Box's
standpoint removing you know a small area of driveway and a small brick walkway and replacing that with crushed stone or something else functionally if that area is pretty compacted is not going to get a ton of water into the ground
but they're not still not really from a permitting standpoint increasing impervia surface yeah so I agree but I think it goes back to the earlier comment about you know water running across the ground versus going into the
ground I don't think it makes any sense to do anything with that deck in the back but I think we make the argument that that new addition to the bottom right there probably should have its own drywall and just have them use the same GIS soil conditions and do a
10year you know storm calculation for that area and put a drywall pit in the front it's not going to hurt anything and then we at least said we can make the old College try to collect that water I agree but just for clarification are you calling the front the ocean side
or the street Side Edition should have a drywall okay thank you thank you steam colleague I Missy Buzz um all right all right so we have a couple of
comments um what's the best way to move forward with this uh I I think they need to go put a bunch of stuff on the plan and come back I agree so I'd like to give them clear Direction so maybe I can rattle all that off and then we can all agree on that direction um yeah let's let's just um
before I think that's a great idea okay before you do that let's let's just kind of talk through the um the drywall because there's a couple of different ways we could go we could request that they put something in the back we could respect uh request that they put something in the front we could request that they put something on both sides I
think it's it's whatever the commission wants I think anything is better than nothing so um I'm I'm open on this one I'm not I'm not pushing too hard I think that it it is a limited um change of the site um but at the same time I think
this work to be done here and I think that any work that's done is is going to be beneficial so yeah I think I think my argument for going for the street side is you're going to be digging in the ground to put that addition anyways so the ground's going to get torn up there back is PR limited work and there's not
a lot of room back there to do anything so that's kind of my rationale for just going for the street side you Matt do we have any pictures about the the ridge line I don't see anything on the plans I'm showing me and I I don't I don't recall I'm in the wrong folder hold on still in short drive
this yeah I can um yeah I can show you Nick can you stop sharing your screen I'll share mine sure can so this is the area of the street Side Edition so you can see the uh solar on
the front roof and is it is it right in that little opening before you moved it is that is that exactly where we're looking at the um the addition yeah it's going in that corner right there yeah yep yeah
so some of this area of oh they take they taken down that Gable end right okay okay um and then it's right next to another um down spot so realistically speaking I mean if if they're digging a hole there they should be able to pick
up that front cutter without too much work um and and I think that my request if we were going to put it on the front I think I'd like to see them try to pick up the adjacent gutter section to to to um to do as much as they could um that's not a that's not a big ask for digging
wise um other more conversation I think that sounds appropriate okay any any further comments on that buzz are you able to um continue my friend going to try all
right so my recommendation is to request that they revise the plan and it will include conservation posts every how many feet every 25 feet in that mitigation area yeah probably I mean typically I
think we do 50 feet but when it's a small curved area it's kind of hard to detail that without having I would say 25 ft on that one standard conservation post detail and that the street Side
Edition has incorporates a drywall it can uh take in as many down spouts as possible in that area and that to be designed using the gis soil conditions and sizing for a 10e
storm just like the last Apple pin and that we get a 4in caliber tree any particular species that we want Matthew native Native 4in Cala native tree planted somewhere in the street side
yard that is native include I mean there's got to be a little bit more Direction native to Southeastern Massachusetts that's my that's my stand ocean Savvy I mean that would be durable that would be smart we usually when we do a a tree as a special Condition it's
usually tree must remain in perpetuity so basically if you kill it you have to plant another one so it's to to your benefit to plant something that's Coastal tolerant and um if I forget if there was a wetland scientist on this um most of the ones we see here good with
that stuff or they can check with me on that all yeah let's just have can we ask native to Coastal area Southeastern Coastal area so that would be my instructions back to Brady
Consulting U to make those amendments and then come back at the next hearing all everybody in agreement sounds good okay all right Mr L do you have um any questions for us corn Stree in the front yard drywall
size for 10e storm con comp poost every 25 ft so I take it you're not asking us to swap the mitigation for a drywall you want the mitigation Point things and the drywall correct yep I think I've got it if I didn't miss anything there
okay um is there any uh anyone from the public that wants to be on this matter okay and so how much time do you need to get that in you need to have it in a week the next hear in absolutely okay so you're okay to go to the next
hearing yes okay what would that be complete 26th I'll make a motion to continue this matter to the 26th hearing second section SE uh d d what is it d d That's my
motion I have a motion do we have a second I did second it okay we have a second we'll take a a roll call Buzz hi marily hi uh dot Hi Megan hi Jim and I all right thank you Nick thank you good night night good
luck all right so was just a two corre uh yeah now we're back to so we will move back to action items excuse me I will now open a public meeting to discuss the request for
certificate of compliance R Mill Road Old Mill Road mat is that a tyo Spruce Street which which one how did that end I don't know so but just old it's just 18 Old Mill Road yeah
okay combining two requests together under se37 653 and SE 037 0772 the applicant has requested a continuance to April 9th that do you
have any uh any comments on this one no um I updated the commission before they filed the two requests and then realized that one of the properties was not in compliance with the original orders of conditions which were older and they were going to be looking at getting a
contractor and getting the work done so this has just been kind of kicked I would say if they don't have it on April 9th maybe we talk about just denying it and they can refile it but maybe give them one more shot okay right
so your recommendations given one the shop yeah all right um is there any uh comment from the public is there any comment from the commissions right perhaps do we have a motion to continue to April 9th I'll
make that motion all right um second we have a motion at second we'll take a roll call Buzz hi marily hi do hi second Jim and I we will continue to April 9th take one pass it down these were on
the one drive but they them anyways keep them for future reference if you want all right I will now open a public meeting to discuss the request for Amendment or deviation for 126 and 131 to 137 Ring Road submitted by beels
and Thomas on behalf of Ring World solar uh LLC file number se0 037 0889 and se0 37- 0890 does the uh agent have any
comments um people will have them give a little presentation on this and then I'll give you mine okay uh Mr Ren you hear on this one I am yes good evening you guys hear me we can do you have
comments oh hang on one sec I guess I can give you a quick summary on what we're proposing that's what you're looking for please sure um so this is for the solar the Dual use solar project on Ring Road uh we are
requesting to install uh some perimeter security fening approximately 27 700 linear feet of fence in Kingston this project is both and Clinton in Kingston um we're encroaching on the Wetland buffer I think the closest encroachment is approximately 2
ft from the edge of the Wetland um we're proposing a a wood post uh a style woven mesh fence with a 6in W light Gap um with Gates and strategic location to
allow access to the site um you the the installation method is pretty um non uh disturbance so we're they're driven to the ground there's no drilling required uh we don't expect any uh
ground disturbance vegetation disturbance uh in the installation um and I think we're looking for the the the commission to determine whether this change as we're proposing it is M enough to allow for administrative
approval or whether it's appropriate for an amendment re CL uh to to get this approved okay so Matt could you uh bring us up to speed it sounds like they're asking to put a lot of fence up around something that we looked at and reviewed
sure so this project was permitted I believe in 2019 or 2020 and then they came back for amendments uh because of an AB butter um agreement for uh screening plantings and
a little bit of fence and they did get that um I believe back in 2021 or 2022 and now the project is mostly built and they were not able to get um I
believe was it occupancy from the the two building departments for lack of a security fence um so from from a pering standpoint and I just shared our you know Amendment procedure
with everybody um you know we start like this we start with just a discussion at a public meeting without any notice to anybody or any any of that um the way Wetlands protection act Works my recommendation is always not to issue
minor modifications um you know really the wetlands protection act only has consideration for like typos and things like that under under that that type of thing but in this case what they're asking falls under an exemption of Wellness protection act that doesn't
exist for kpr so you do have the ability to decide that what they're proposing if you look at everything they've provided and decide that it's minor enough that you would rather deal with this through administrative review we can do that and just decide that it's a minor change and
that it's not affecting anything you know it is very close to the wetlands um I did have questions about the method of installation and what the types of PT were going to be used things like that um one of the things that
I had uh you know sent to see if they could come up with any information shortly before the meeting was whether you know the state had any guidance in the smart program on this cu you know if
it's if it's an agricultural operation if it's just you know something that's being done to maintain an agricultural operation then it's also exempt from kwp I think fencing in a solar project is not agricultural but I have not
scoured through the smart program regulations so if the smart program has something in there where they decided that perimeter fencing counts as agriculture when you have a dual use solar and cranberry installation then I
would suspect that that would exempt review under kwp as well and they'd be fine with going forward and just doing the project um I just don't have that information so he answered the question that I had just on how much was in Kingston Alone
um I said it was unclear what the shortest distance to Wetlands are it appeared to be quite close to zero he said it was about 2 feet um it seemed like all the posts were going to be PT with the gate posts being galvanized and I was looking for information on the
specification of the treatment of the PT because we have run through that before um you know kwp is a little bit wonky in how it deals with PT and we need to redo that when we revisit all the regulations but for now it's important just to make sure whatever the treatment is is the
least impactful to aquatic organisms and Wetland Health um you know if the installation method is just driving the posts that gets past one of my questions which is is there any vegetative disturbance required um you know if you're putting a post within 2 feet of a
wetland are you having to cut any of the Native vegetation in order to get there or trample it or that sort of thing I just had questions on that um so yeah kwp 5.19 land and Forestry and agriculture work performed for normal maintenance or Improvement of
land and agricultural use as defined herein or work performed under an approved Forest cutting plan on land and Forestry as defined herein shall be exempt from filing requirements provided that written notice has been given to the Kingston Conservation Commission prior to commencement of work um then it
specifies it must also conform to 310 CMR 10.04 and 10.53 and conform to the definitions in these regulations so that that really is my ultimate recommendation is that the applicant should look into the smart program regs
as mentioned above um you know or state that they already have checked and that there's nothing in there at that point when we have that information the commission should determine whether the changes are proposed the changes proposed are minor enough to allow that
minor modification approval by by admin or whether the changes are appropriate to hear as an amendment request in a future public hearing keeping in mind the standard that amendments must not be more detrimental to resource areas than the approved
plans all right Mr Ren I believe you you wanted to uh address something that Matt had had recited yeah just just addressing some of his questions in a little more detail so the posts are Curr proposed to be PT including the gate
post so so no galf Will Go On The Ground you I think we're we haven't procured any of the the materials yet so if there's something that um the committee the Conservation Commission can can suggest that you would want to see in terms of a a
specification on the treatment or or even lack thereof like we would be open to discussing that uh since we haven't procured that material yet um you we did do as much of a dive as we could into the smart program Matt I mean we uh we I
think we still need to do a little more investigation but the initial sort of highle review there doesn't appear to be a provision uh for the installation of a fence as part of the agriculture operations I think depending how you would interpret it I mean because it is
dual use there's potential there we just think we need to do a little deeper dive uh to make sure that there there isn't anything that we could interpret in that way um so just wanted to clarify a couple of those okay um I have some
questions so so looking at the layout of the fence there it looks like you are really really close to the Wetland Flags um I'd like to understand better um what we're looking at as far as uh
existing topography and and uh what's there is it just grassland is it is it actually being used as agriculture is it is it off off the road is it what's the reason that we have to be this far away from everything if uh essentially you
know we're talking cranberry B access roads and now solar installed above the box so that's I'd like some clarification on that so so the the location of the propos fence we consulted with the farmer who's going to be be farming the
bugs and his in order to sort of do that efficiently having a fence close to the bog or even in the Bog is Impractical for him to be able to get in there and and do the Harvest um and so this is the closest we can could get to the access
road and the bogs to still allow him to to harvest the bogs um so that that's sort of what's driving the the current location of the fence ideally we would be further away from the we we would be sort of right on the inside of that that
beige access road as shown on the plan um on the inside of that further away from the weapon um but that would be really impractical uh for farming operations does that answer your question um I think I think I think you
did as good as you can and I I think it's just going to be something that I I don't quite understand until I understand it so what re refresh my memory this is an elevated solar panel system correct yeah
it's it's the arrays are 10 ft above the the cranberry hgs to allow for farming activities underneath yeah and so what happened so they came to after you were done and they said now we want a fence
yeah okay so the project was fully permitted by both towns you know building electrical um as it was approved by the Conservation Commission the planning boards we constructed it based on those
approvals and they came back uh after the fact said no we need to see offense now who who who came back after the fact building dep the who building the building department from Kingston uh it was so there the
inspector from climon is also an alternate inspector in Kingston so he was heard of taking the lead on behalf of both house by understanding okay so what happens if we say no um I'm not
sure uh you know we're we're going to have to come up with an alternate an alternate solution no my question is is how is he the adjudicator of all things so well he's he's interpreting the the
National Electric codes right um and so we've got to get his sign off based on that interpretation what what EX ly did he say to you about the electrical code well the code has a sort of a vague
reference and forgive me I'm not the the contractor who built the project I'm representing the owner of the project um but he did say that there's a vague reference in the code about you know access to these projects by a qualified
persons you know we we presented an argument that we believe that it was inaccessible given sort of the the fencing that we do have installed the gates that are installed sort of in in in areas where there would be you potential access points um and that was
that was the rationale of the original design right that it is inaccessible um can I can I can I follow up on that I expect that your inverters and your your your switch gear and everything that
that's really line voltage um you know and dangerous would would ultimately be inside of some kind of fence structure I I vaguely remember this one but I mean it looks like at this point we're trying to
enclose uh a property saying that it's accessible to somehow to the public When anybody can walk inside a gate and it's just as AC accessible and and we I think that I know that I have some concerns from the from the wetman side about
putting press defense um of this you know quantity this close to where Where It ultimately would need to go to not be a hindrance to the farmer and certainly I'm not trying to go that route so from that perspective I mean can you confirm that
you do have your inverters you know in a in an area of site fencing or or whatever you guys had originally detailed because I'm sure that the designer built that in because that's that makes all the sense in the world but um I'd like to hear that from you
yeah so you can see on the plan here that the equipment pads um are fenced in okay you I think some of the exception that he took is that there there are conductors on the back sides of these
arrays and some collector you know conductors that are elevated 8 to 10 ft in the air uh they're not exposed conductors they're fully insulated conductors they're touched safe but he's looking at
those as exposed conductors even though some would have to be on a ladder essentially to to reach things no and this was the building inspector or the electrical inspector Electric electrical okay so I think before we consider any amendments or anything like that I think
you should encourage your contractor to reach out to the state and ask the state inspector for his interpretation in writing so that we can see that I agree 100% I I can tell you I deal with a lot of solar in my day job
and what I'm hearing here is is not at all what I see elsewhere so you know the smart thing does it change a little bit not if it's 8 feet off the ground at its lowest point um and you have everything in conductors that's you know listed with you know the proper UL ratings and
um you know and you know install per the applicable NEC code so from that perspective I I 100% agree that your your your proper path here is to to review what you have there and and confirm that this is in
fact a valid request from the inspector because um I have concerns here sounds like buzz does too yeah I want to hear it I want to hear from the state inspector not from absolutely and then what is the how is the current solar
panels fastened to the to the bog now are they just waited panels or are they post think a post driven post driven pil what what kind of material is the pile
GV steel say again gvan steel okay so I'm more inclined to say I would my personal opinion that if we already have galvanized P that I would rather see a g if we have to have a fence I would
rather see galvanized post rather than piles with pressure treated reaching into the soil I'll even go a little bit further I I'd rather deny it all togethere and tell them they can't do it let them use us as an excuse let them F just assuming for a minute that we get
to a point where we need to have the fense I would prefer to see galvanized post rather than pressure treatment what if we use just an untreated post well my concern would be the longevity of it not could use black
locust be expensive I I think we should table it I really think that I think that once the right person takes a look at this and sees that all your line voltage equipment is already uh inside a fenced
in security area that this is just something that will ultimately sus a cello go away yeah would you want to continue this to the 26 I you know listen I fully recognize there a lot of money involved here and you know you've
got a lot of money invested and you need to get this moving but uh I feel that we're they're putting us in the position of being the adjudicator of whether or not this thing can open and I
don't think that's our place now if they come back and say Here's the code and here's why and it's a signed letter from the state inspector then my opinion is that I'd be looking for galvanized post that's one man's opinion from that perspective I I would agree
with you that I wouldn't want to see treated that close right or or at least in that area um and I think that we would also want to talk about the things that we would normally talk about the height is six inches enough I don't know um what what kind of Passage do we need to and I think that that's a whole
different process that we would have to go down to so I think that's what we put on the fence there was a fence for privacy at some point and I think we said it had to be 6 in off the ground yeah yeah 6 in typical for wildlife
passage and that's what the WPA standard for being wave from WPA requires that it has to have that is that also for isn't there like some box turtle or something around here I mean that's kind of what they I mean I don't know if they're specifically doing that for box turtle they're thinking similar species and you
know aquatic turtles things like anything you know yeah all sorts of stuff can make it right under a 6 in fence ultimately I mean what's what's our what's our standard is it 30 is it 40 ft for fencing 30 ft for for
landscaping what's 30t is Landscaping so I I think landcap it's probably 30 ft because I believe in most cases fence to be considered Landscaping not structure M right if it was a big enough fence it may be considered a structure but I mean just a a standard fence I think counts
as landscape changes a lot in this area as far as the habitat and I also make the argument that we are the cons a commission and how many lineal feet of fence is this 2700 So 27 so a half a mile just just I believe an hour yeah so
there's more right on the other side of the property yeah so a half a mile of fence in our jurisdiction I would not consider conserving anything one me's opinion a lot of fence and a lot of f
you want to push this two weeks and give him time to check the state inspector Mr bro two weeks be sufficient I I I I we can try I I don't have to talk to the contct we can always we can always we're not going to be mad at you we can always extend it again let's
let's let's let's plan on that and we can let Matt know if we haven't been successful with the state inspector I think my I I have a sense that he's going to come back and agree with the local inspector but I again we need it in writing
I understood understood yeah yeah with the reference to the code that he's referencing with his name on the bottom with his signature okay and sorry you said if it the 30 ft is is the the the buffer for a
fence yeah Landscaping is a 30 foot uh no touch boundary from from the edge of the Wetland and I believe in most cases a fence is considered Landscaping okay 2700 ft changes a lot of things but he hasn't got 30 ft right no he hasn't
got any for me no it's CL I believe you said the closest is 2 feet so in a lot of cases because you know the way the bog is designed you have your bog roads that are separating bog from the natural Wetland so from a if you need to go closer than
30 ft we would need to understand from the farmer's perspective why that would be and then I I personally would take that into consideration yeah we wanted to have the farmer on tonight but he wasn't able to make it but I I understand I'm just
saying if that comes to pass we're going to need him to explain that to us okay from a permitting standpoint I don't know that you could get 30t because the cranberry bog itself counts as a wetland even though in this case it's a wetland that's directly impacted by the whole
thing's a pile solar operation all I'm trying to do is get resol yeah I'm not I'm not saying one way or the other it's just from a strictly uh clerical perspective I don't know that you can get to 30 ft but you certainly I would say putting PT yeah that close to my
point is we did elevated panels so that the crary B could remain if we put a fence in the middle of the cranberry Bo to stay 30 ft away from another line we've kind of defeated the purpose of the whole beginnings of the process right right just looking at go back to
my original point that I don't think you need a f find out we agree we agree with that completely we we'll we'll we'll escalate for the state and see what what they come back with great okay right um any
other comments all right Mr R do you have any other questions for us um not at this time appreciate your time thank you for coming thank you all right so we make a motion
to extend this to when March 26th section D again uh no section for Action items all right no section make a motion 26 second all right we have a motion and second uh okay take a roll call uh Buzz Hi Marilyn
hi excuse me Hi Megan hi jimy yes uh thank you we'll uh continue to the 26 okay thank you all okay Matt uh if I did this right we're on enforcement yeah um there's no there's
nothing scheduled under enforcement I didn't have anything on the agenda for enforcement um I did want a clarification from the commission and I don't think that this needs to be on the agenda to have a quick um you know just
let me say we talked at the last meeting about 44 rabbath Road and it was the second meeting where nobody had showed up I had an email from uh the homeowner that I didn't get while I was here so I didn't get it until the next morning um
you know explaining that there was a medical issue and couldn't be here tonight so you had planned on being here couldn't be here um and there's um you know an
ongoing Medical I don't want to give any details about any it's like medical stuff but at that meeting you had guided me to set a date I believe it was 30 days that if they didn't have that information to us within 30 days then we would issue an
enforcement order stating a date and have fines after that I did pass that information on but said that I planned on coming back to the commission to explain that there were mitigating factors there um and that that may not be possible so so what is your
recommendation for for a relief from that time frame uh just I guess a little more time I know that they did reach out to the um the the issue was needing the specs From the Block manufacturer they did reach out again to the block manufacturer so um everything should be
hopefully in process but um I would say maybe just allow me to check back with them and put this on an agenda for what is it now March I mean can we put this on an agenda for late April and see
what we have by then so we're going to give him basically a 30-day reprieve for now that's my recommendation based on what I know of of the situation so maybe I'll put it on the the second April agenda hang on let me just just to
if we if this isn't posted should we be making motions on it was my question yeah I mean I don't know that we need a motion I just I but I just don't want to get us we we gave him specific guidance you gave me guidance now my basically my ask is like let me not follow that
guidance no I understand but I want to just put on record that we're giving them a 30-day extension from that original ask how about we just take a straw poll and say that we're all comfortable with 30-day expension instead of taking an actual vote I think that's all that's required I don't think that it matters necessarily one more the
other in this particular situation or I wouldn't have brought it up I would have made sure we modified the agenda I could have modified the agenda for it but I didn't think it was necessary okay so however you want my straw says 30 days I'm fine with it my straw okay my straw says as
well my straw is good for it okay I'm fine with it everybody seems to be similar length straws right buz all right um the meeting minutes is no meeting minutes to approve Matt no I'm not doing minutes until I get assistance
okay well you know good luck with that uh updates uh is there an update on the 2025 eversource VMP update uh project yeah we get uh every year uh something in the mail but from ever Source detailing where in town they're going to
be uh managing vegetation on their rways uh we received that so if anybody wants that information whether it's a commissioner or member of the public we have it on file we have it digital they can reach out and ask for it um essentially it's them doing herbicide to
keep tree species down they treat some invasives but not all of them um and they do some mechanical everything's in there they do have the fiveyear vegetation management plan that can be sent to people as well if they want to see specifics okay thank you any questions
or comments to Matt on that um all right how's about an update on ongoing projects uh Blackwater the Samson's Headwaters restoration the inwater restoration work is is wrapped up um they're going to be pulling the
sediment barrier that's in the Stream by Friday because we need to get it out of there by the 15th uh based on the permit for migratory fish um the plan now we're going to assess the condition of where the pre-existing Trail was and come up
with a plan of attack for how much fill is needed or you know not fill but um hard pack um and get the trail situated that should be hopefully in April um and we're figuring out how to do the bridges
to replace where the water control structures were uh we may have a deal on some gangways retired from various Harbor Masters um that meet the very very basic minimum with requirements of
ADA but they won't completely pass Ada because of the hatching beneath them but we know with this project that's not going to be perfect we want it to be as good as we can get it um so that's good we've applied for a few grants lately we have um various things going on um we
did a site visit for uh Maple Street dam removal for that Grant we got for the feasibility study so that's in process too lots of good stuff going good job on on Maple Street that Foundry Pond
now is very low has has the dam been breached or opened or something no I mean they might have pulled Boards out years ago for all I know I don't know if there are there were like boards in the I don't know control structure or something um it hasn't changed much since I started here that I could see
but it it's the vegetation in it I think has grown a lot so it's there less be real fond Less open water and more um stream with Wetlands attached to it okay um but the I mean the the dam is in pretty poor condition but I I don't know that there was a an actual breach or
anything like that over the years okay all right sounds good uh anything else now that's all I got all right uh the next meeting will be held on March 26 2025 starting at 6:30 p.m. the time is now 8:10 p.m. do I hear a motion to
adjourn make that motion second and we have a motion in a second we'll roll call Buzz Hi Marilyn hi doc Hi Megan hi Jims and I thank you