Okay, it's uh we'll open up the February 17th civil commissioners meeting. Ela, >> Bill Wati, Ryan. >> Um and we have um do you want to start it off or you want to join us at the
table? How do you want to somebody um Yeah. >> Yeah. Are they >> Hi. Uh, just checking. Uh, Pat Ley. >> Oh, yeah. Just I'm just here to watch.
>> Okay. For anything particular, I just want to make sure that we make we include you in you want to be included in something. >> No, no, just to get my bearings on your meetings. That's all. >> Okay. >> Thank you. >> You're welcome. >> Okay. So, first item is the sewer
extension project. There's actually a couple things that uh involved with this item is first is we can come back to this a little bit later is the uh contract proposal that we have from CDM which we've been talking about for months now and we have a final um
contract to discuss. But I think more importantly for this meeting is we have a letter from and a recommendation or a request from um Mark Casey who's here with a uh request to talk to us about uh
extending the sewer to a project in Ducks in the Marramar property. Um, as way of introduction, I can tell you as a former sewer commissioner many, many decades ago, this came up at one of our meetings, and I think Mark and I talked
about it back then. Um, and it was very much at the time something that we entertained as a commission, but it was back in the day when our capacity was quickly being used up for the first part of the project, and there really wasn't
capacity at the time. Things have changed. We have the upgrade. Everything's in place now and uh capacity should be adequate subject to some review which is the contract we just talked about. But uh I think I'll
just leave it there and let Mark talk about what the proposal >> join us on the table. >> And just identify yourself. I many of you probably know me from the Southshore Survey Consultants. for engineers and surveyors. Actually done a work a lot of work directly for the town
over the years. I'm currently representing the owners of Myiramar. Uh this is Ben Vera. Uh Ben's also representing the owners and what we'd like to do. I talked to Brian back in 2004. Um, Miramar had been running a deficit
of almost 300,000 a year and they asked if you could get some gourmet lots, but they didn't want to see any new houses any place where they were doing the retreat business. So, where we did perk test, there was nothing but terrible clay. So, I called Brian up and we
exploited the idea of somehow tying into the sewer system. Well, uh, the group that's purchased Myar, we're going to do single family homes, right? Uh we think for the environment and for us and for the town of Kingston, we think it would
be a nice fit. Uh we're looking for minimum of 375 uh bedrooms. Okay. If you wanted to mark us up for 400, we wouldn't argue with it, but 375 is the minimum number we
need. >> Okay. And so as far as we're concerned, uh we'll take care of the engineering to get down to the pump station by the uh highway overpass, right? And then what I
assume you're going to use camper McKe at that point. >> They would be reviewing anything. Exactly. >> Yeah. So to actually do the tie-in since they did the design, it would make sense for you to use them for that final portion of it and to bill us,
you know, whatever they're going to charge you. So really again, what it comes down to is we think this is a good fit for everybody involved and it comes down to uh give us a dollar figure, okay? and we'll say yes or no and give
you a significant portion of that uh amount of money up front. We don't expect you to lock in that capacity for this venture unless you've got some uh nonrefundable money in your pocket. >> Okay.
>> So, minimum 375, max 400. >> Yeah. >> Okay. Um how far is it from the pump station? just >> I'm going to say it's about and again I haven't measured it but uh I
looked at it in Google Earth I think it was about closest portion of our property uh to the pump station is about 2200 linear feet. >> Oh okay that's >> it's not >> it's not that big a deal. I'm just in my mind you know running around you know
thinking about the engineering aspect of it. I'm thinking a a low pressure uh you know pump to the pump station gravity >> collective system on your property >> low pressure pump to our our pump >> exactly which will >> come up come down either Fox Street or
Landing Road and and to this the pump station. So it would be basically your system. The only question one of the minor detail is Dave loss Dave lost our superintendent. >> Hi Dave. I think we might be for this. >> I know our our commission will look to
Dave to be integally related to this and who's going to be maintaining what and all that and make sure he's happy. So, we're happy. Um, and who maintenance I think off top of my head at least what's on the sewers on your
footprint is probably your responsibility. >> Absolutely. >> And the pump station whether that's something that we take over or not. I think that's a question for Dave. Do we want to do that? And there there's always a question of another town. Start thinking of, you know, right there somebody get, you know, easements and
access and all that stuff. That's a detail we can figure out later. But other than that, I don't see anything major >> that's going to, you know, bug dust detail that can bite us one way or the other either side of this equation. >> I would agree. D check and see if that
pump that's down there landing or have to be upgraded >> question. >> I know the infrastructure from there down would probably take care of it because it would be spread out a little bit more but that would need to be addressed as well. >> Yeah, I'm looking that up with CDM to see, you know, some of those coordinated
details. But I would imagine with a little bit of everything that's down there should be able to handle that. can get caught. >> Yeah, it's a it's in a good location, too. Access wise, it's not difficult.
It's a public way >> and and there's not there's what one property from the pump station, >> right? Yep. >> Yeah. So, it's not a major impact to uh residents of anybody down there. I I I I
support it from what you know >> access would be a little more difficult because of the wetlands. >> Well, there's wetlands either way. I mean, if you stay on the roadway, I don't think there's a problem. >> There's there's about back when they approached me in late 2003, early 2004, we I had my wetland
scientist go out and delineate the wetlands. And wetlands, you know, they retreat and approach just a little tiny bit. So, >> I think I think there's culverts of some sort down on on Park Street, though. way down. >> Way down. >> Yeah. >> Uh we've even looked at uh you know the
pregnant property. Uh is there is there a way and I don't have a definitive >> That's right. >> Uh if we could uh disturb less than 5,000 square feet of wetlands uh we could potentially even get an easement from Cretins. Uh you know we understand they would love to you know be the
beneficiaries of a little money for an easement. >> Oh yeah. And so >> that connection if >> people don't usually say that when you're offering the money it may or may not work. So we'll have the wetlands right >> yeah that's not our issue but I'm just >> it's about 33 acres with about 19 acres
above. Okay. So if we could do that we would do that and stay out of the street altogether. >> As far as the site itself every single house is going to have its own septic tank. You go you know obviously from the house to the septic tank. you go gravity to a sewer main. Sewer main will go to
an on-site uh you know pump and then depending if we're in the road or out of the road going to wind up at your pump station. >> Question I have on that is they'll have their own individual septic tanks. Will those be pumped or are they just going to be holding tanks to let the effluent go down
>> just just like any title five septic system? It's going to be each house is going to have its own 1500 gallons. >> Okay. All right. Uh, title five, uh, I was one of the first three licensed inspectors in the state. Title five, uh, want you to pump the
septic tank every three years. >> Right. Right. >> And ownership of these single family homes will be in condominium. Okay. So, you'll have a condo association. So legally when you're a that single family home whoever buys a particular home they
own and are responsible for the inside. Okay. A condominium association is responsible for everything from the roof to the septic tank to the you know paved ways that people drive on >> maintenance. Now I'm curious as to okay. So you're
going to every three years those are going to be puffed. So we're not actually going to get the solids. We're going to get the the overflow, the the water, so to speak. >> What? >> And then who gets who pumps it out? Private contractors. And they bring it to any place they want.
>> Yeah. >> To to dispose of it. >> Yep. Every every three years. And every septic tank >> is supposed to be pumped every three years. Some people make the mistake of doing it every year, which >> what happens is you need anorobic
colonies of bacteria to form in the septic tank that break down the solids. And when you pump out a septic tank, you basically wipe out the colony, >> right? Pump it dry. Literally, the rule of thumb is don't pump it dry. >> I'm going to make a suggestion. This is
not >> okay. >> This is not a title five system and the solids issue is really not an issue. >> It's sewage. >> Yeah. >> Um and having each septic system a septic tank as a solid helps us on the
on the end of keeping that pump that man clean keeping you know that all that stuff goes away and it's a it acts as a grease trap. But my thinking would be a thousand gallons is more than enough tank. I mean, from a cost point of view, it's a significant savings between 1,000
and 1,500. We're not talking title five at all. We're now into the whole waste water. >> You can modify that. >> I like your plan even better. >> Okay. So, we're talking 1,000. And I wouldn't even as long as we saw the details of the pump out, the homeowners association, the condo that we know it's
getting done so that this guy and his pred successors and all the other people aren't dealing with another nightmare later down the line. if they're acting like a oil water separator. I mean, a grease trap basically. Um, you know, whether they have disposals or not goes out the window because they're going to
get pumped every three years. And let let that be the maintenance of the homeowners association. It's if it's your problem, their problem, it isn't our problem, you know. >> So, we're just talking untreated waste water coming. You can save you can save a significant amount of money do a
thousand gallon tanks from 1500 from construction and and ground water they high as hell >> not so much up the hill maybe but down then you get down a lower spot you're going to be anchoring them all there's all kinds of problems so I mean just throwing that out I would start thinking no no
>> good idea the only thing I can envision is the new board of health agent Lauren who's a real sweetheart but she's going to go oh no touch says you've got to do a 1500 >> in ducksberry >> yeah Yeah, she I I know who she is very well. And this it's a simple question. This is not a title five issue. Board of
Health can do whatever they want. >> You and I agree on that. >> Board of Health can do what they want. So we we should have a discussion because it's our >> it's our problem with you, not the board of health. So it's just a discussion. I think we should have that >> level. Great idea. I'm a little
embarrassed I didn't think of it. >> So from a Kingston perspective, um it it sounds like we definitely have the capacity. Yes. >> Um and it we haven't crossed over to different towns yet. So that that's
something we're not we we'll have to all figure out. >> But is it safe to say we're all on board with this if we can make make it work to our satisfaction and the numbers work for you? >> Yeah. >> As a board. >> Yeah. And and >> absolutely. I mean this this I think
this is fantastic and it's it from an environmental point of view it's just another piece of the >> I go back to my history when I was director of water pollution we were pushing duck spray and they're still being pushed and unfortunately they have a huge problem I think with wastewater
dealing with waste water for the town but they put in basically they kicked the can down the road system from Hollis Cornet to Bay you know down Bay Road and put the supptic system in there so >> um It it did solve a little bit of a problem with raw sewage flowing down
like Rocky Nuke was at the time, but this at least takes that loop, you know, along Bay Farm on the town line. It takes that out of the equation. >> So, environmentally, it's great. All that kind of Yeah. So, >> and it helps us with we we have
expenses. We have debt and we need we have operating expenses that >> as far as >> up every every every minute >> of every day which >> they will share with us >> and as few as far as money goes I what we are more than willing to do is once we come up with a number we have an
agreement uh whatever that number is we're not going to obviously be tying in for a couple years but we'll pay a substantial deposit on the day of the execution knowing that you won't tie us in for two years which is totally fine and then we'll you know we'll pay the balance and when I say substantial I mean you know 70% because obviously we
know the money's helpful and it needs to come in. I think it's obvious an easier uh conversation with other towns folks. So it's like well >> we just brought millions of dollars into the conference that didn't come out of your pocketbook on taxes. >> That's a critical point. >> Yeah. So we're whatever whatever the number needs to be that's you know we come up with a whole number. Yes.
Whatever you need us to do as part of that we will do it. We can you know we can come up with an agreement we'll sign it. We'll wire the money. When you can burn the monies into the account you can sign it. So that won't be an issue. >> Okay. So that's you know we our our rules and regulations were just updated
last year. Our betterment um numbers are based on erus equivalent. Going back to title five like we always use the same. So you're using 375 or 400 pick your number. Um each threebedroom is one eru. So it's 40,000 per erus. That's the
that's our betterment rate that we've come up with. It's on the books now. So that's that will be where the number comes from. So $40,000 a bedroom >> per per Novides you have 125 bet erus by the 375. Right.
So I get my math right. >> Yeah. Yeah. I'm going to figure it. >> 40,000 buys you three bedrooms. >> Okay. And I need >> Okay. And I need 375 bedrooms. So I'm giving you 40,000 times 125 which is
already >> Yeah. It's four. is 400 bedrooms, 110 gallons per bedroom. So that's um divided by 330 which is our EIU. It's 133
EU times 40,000. >> Yeah. >> $5 million would be 125 time 40,000, >> right? >> Yes. For 125. >> Yeah. Because you're saying Yeah. So that would be the math we're using. >> Yeah. >> Okay. Sure. >> And what else? you you just said
>> I can well 53 >> whatever that number is would be the number and then we you know and then there's going to be design I mean I think this is not to bid against myself but uh I think for the town of Kingston it would be better for you if you gave us a lump sum that would be your worst
case scenario for cost for engineering etc you know with some meat added on to protect it and give us just a lump sum number because we don't need bullet point accounting. So, if you come back to us and say it's $6 million that we could tie in, then our answer is going to be yes. And we'll let's do $3 million
today and then $3 million before you tie us in. >> I'll take that in cash. >> Need a couple extra days. >> That's why we put this this proposal on. >> Got to get a bigger truck to bring it in. >> Yes. So, we'll go in.
>> No, it will be it'll be wired to your back. No problem. No, but I mean this is all part of our environmental package anyways. This takes care of that side of property we don't have any control over on that side of the bay. >> Yeah, >> I think it's wonderful that you guys are doing this proactive because it's great. I think I think the town of Duxberry is
going to be thrilled because I think their biggest fear about development of Airar was the impact on the bay because of the septic systems that are already there and the fact that you had a they had an expert in at their site for me in Microsoft a few months ago and they said, "Well, we don't understand how come this is happening. Kingston doesn't have a problem." Yes. They have a waste water treatment player.
>> We bet the bullet, you know, I say like this. This is the truth. Island Creek Oysters did not exist except for Kingston putting it treatment at Planet. >> If you look at the history, they couldn't open it up because the quality of the water was so bad because of Kingston and Plymouth to a certain extent.
>> And within a year, Island Creek became a viable thing. and so did five other >> right >> um shellfish you know um and then we had our own in Kingston you know they're four now five now right >> so I mean it all came from us putting the money into this town and doing that
>> expensive thing but it was best thing could happen in line and people forget that >> but this is this is good news >> anything yeah a couple things um and to Brian's point we have records from 1998
the chilled feal cauliflower counts out at some of the outfalls at 50,000 parts per million and they shut the beach down at 10 parts per million. So it tells you how nasty it used to be. So >> and there's coming from you know drains in Ducksbury as well as it wasn't just
>> Yeah. >> So things have gotten so much better out there and you know I know the state has been pushing especially on the Cape these nitrogen levels draw them down and whatnot. So Kingston's been very proactive. It's nice that there's an option or potentially an option for you
guys to dye in. Um, and we do welcome that I think as a board. So, um, my thoughts, a couple questions on it. As far as um, getting the the waste water from the property to us, would you anticipate it being a course main or
would you be looking at gravity? >> We would obviously make gravity work wherever we can. Okay. And then I believe, you know, if we're going to lighting everything. Uh, and we're going to have to pump it obviously to get to
your pump station. So, I just in my mind I'm thinking a low uh low pressure pump feed to your pump station. >> Okay. >> Yeah. I I looked at it more detail you myself and it's it's all gravity up on most of it's going to be gravity in this
the residential part to one pump station. >> Yeah. 4 inch pump station. 4 inch line. >> So it's all flat down there. I can't imagine there gravity from this pump station to our pump station. It's just a 4 inch. >> So it be a pressure me at >> Yeah. But like a 4 in low pressure low
pressure. Yeah. >> Yeah. There's there's there's no sense engineering wise and even you know talking about or thinking about a high pressure pump. It's totally a miss. >> You use a smaller pipe if you go to a high pressure line. Are you still that? You could use a smaller pipe, but I
don't think there's any advantage >> any cost savings on that end of it or >> it's the only the only with about if you're looking at 2200 ft. I had more in my mind 1,200 but that's it depends where you put this pump station. >> Yeah. >> But if it's if it's 2200 you got a
septic problem you know septic in the in the line itself >> and scouring self cleaning. >> Yeah. And all that kind of stuff. So just it's an engineering detail would be talking to CDM about my my my doing this for so many years would be a 2 in higher
pressure line or 3 in even with some kind of booster station maybe in the middle just to get it you know if you get to a high point I'm thinking right where Park Street is there you might be able to get the last 6 700 800 feet so it's gravity just so you don't have to I
I I've had this problem it depends of the 100 houses or so may not be a big as a deal but because the pump will be pumping enough times the cycling. So that's just again a detail maybe this the pump station is a little smaller so we don't have a lot of stuff sitting there and you know kind of thing.
>> So I would kind of equate to it maybe it's a different volume wise but if you look at say may have that only serves a small real small neighborhood. >> Exactly. >> Uh same with the Riverside Drive area. I think that only serves maybe 100 houses
or so. Boundary Street similar. >> And that run I think they all run 4 in discharge lines off of those. >> Yeah, that's typical. But it's again that septic they only have a short run to to the gravity point, right? >> Yeah. I think boundary goes a good stretch before it really feeds gravity.
But they have a short uh roofside drive is short. >> Yeah. Typically it's just, you know, it's up couple hundred feet to a manhole and it's gravity from there on. Those are just the kind of I know I've had situations where you get 12, 13, 14 feet. It sits there overnight, you know,
things and nobody starts doing anything. Sits there overnight, goes septic, and then you get into an odor problem and other issues that just you don't need to have. >> And it's almost like a when you can't make gravity work with a septic system, okay, and you got to do a
pump where you're going to set the floats. So with a low pressure pump, >> Exactly. you you know where are you going to set it? So how many times is it going to function a day? So so but that's you know we need to go higher. >> Yeah. >> Yeah.
>> We have plenty of time. The good news is I think we you know we'll as we're permitting this and designing it we'll be able to work in conjunction with you and we'll have you know like I said we're going to have a year and a half to two years. So plenty of time to make sure everything's just the way you want before we even start talking about disturbing any soils whatsoever. But um
you know I think for us knowing that it's it's possible is great because it allows us to go forward with our you know our plans based upon that. So >> do we want to take a vote to >> I would make I'll be happy to make a motion that we tenatively tenatively
agree to accept u the possibility of a Marrama project on the Ducks Kingston line coming to us. Um and that the uh betterment fees will be
based on the >> that the fees >> huh >> the fees >> the fees >> the fees >> the fees okay I'll correct myself the fees will be based on our rules and regulations and to be final negotiated in the next
few weeks say that >> yeah sure do you want to put anything about about um blocking out and saving this flow for at this particular event >> um >> in our negotiation. >> Yeah, I'll amend the motion to say that
based on our discussion, the sewer commission will block out the capacity being requested. Uh and that will become permanent upon such time as the
down payment that we agree on is received by the sewer commission. >> I'll second that. All in favor? >> I >> That way you've got >> Yeah. >> Committed out. You back out then we sell to somebody else. >> Somebody comes in tomorrow and wants a million gallons of flow.
>> You're blocked out. >> I'm trying to get my money in faster than them. >> We don't have anybody down the pipeline yet. Put, you know, get up in case. >> Yep. Without a doubt to that. >> Yeah. I think as soon as we can, you know, we we'd like to get to I know you guys would like to get the money. We'd love to give you the money as soon as
possible. Whenever you have a draft agreement for us to look at, um, we'll do that. And then, uh, and like I said, we'll let you guys dictate the terms as far as percentage of total number that you want the deposit. If we come back and it would it's going to help you if you get 65% versus 50%. Just fine. We're
going to send it either way. >> Do you do you want us to draft an agreement up or do you want to draft it? >> Why don't you draft it up? >> Okay. >> And then we'll have our legal >> Yeah. We're going to have to council look at the go. >> Yeah. But we'll get the ball rolling against us.
>> Yeah, it would be easier that way. >> Not a problem. We will get them started on tomorrow. >> Yeah, we'll get them started on tomorrow. >> And um >> so we owe you We're going to owe you um cost a complete package cost, including engineering. >> Yeah, give us the give us what you think is, you know.
>> Yeah, we'll go back, you know. Yeah, come up with what number you come up with and then we'll we'll figure out from uh we'll insert that into that and we'll insert in whatever percentage you want as the down payment and we'll we'll say down payment due upon execution of agreement and balance due before tie in uh you know before tie in occurs.
>> Very good. >> That's easy for us. >> Thank you so much. It was a pleasure. Really appreciate everybody. Good luck. >> Thank you so much. Pleasure meeting you. >> Thank you very much. >> I think I learned more today than I've learned in about 20 years. I don't know
if I wanted to learn it, but I learned to see it. >> Good to see you, Ela. Haven't seen you in a long time. >> I know. It's been a while. >> You know, I don't know why, but you know what I thought of? Is Bobby Campo still alive? No, he did. Really? >> Yeah. >> He was quite, >> wasn't he? >> I liked him.
>> Yeah. >> Yes. He'd stop by at all hours of the night, >> knocking on the door for Somerville. >> Yes, definitely. Thanks. Thanks. Okay. Um,
the reason I said fee >> to give us the flexibility of using the funds as we as um we need to because before the the money from the apartments
was defined as a betterment and that gave us some accounting >> plus because we look at each other >> engineering fees is going to be above and beyond the betterment fees. We would have that flexibility the engineers.
>> Yeah. And the um >> they have all their infrastructure. So it's not >> they do their engineering. I think just not to let them do the engineering of their sewer gravity sewers within the buildings. You know the septic tank thing and all that. We got part of our
agreement should be the on andm piece just making sure it's in place. Not that I want you to do it or anyone, right? But to make sure it's there and if they don't do it and they something happens, we're not a my problem. >> Yeah, it is a contract. Yeah, good point. >> But other the other side of that is um
is uh if they spend the money on the engineering and then have CDM review it. >> Yes. >> Okay. So, it's a much smaller number on our side. We're not worried about this going up by thousands because I to keep this as small as we can keep it, you know. >> Yeah. And this is actually a little separate, but I think that we we
probably want to have this structured as a separate item, but you know, actually maybe even better, we might have it's not even part of it. Might be just is a separate thing, not on this, >> right? >> For the project itself, we would it would be just running the line from the
pump station to the property. >> That could be all their engineering. >> Yeah. as well as our >> 75% number was a very that was offered. >> I agree with that.
>> So what what I like if they could do is a gravity system, but we'd have to you know as we move forward it'd be nice if there was a a gravity line that ran from their general area. I'm not sure if it
can happen or not, but that would always leave the opportunity if if Yeah, exactly. >> Exactly. >> If we don't have enough takers in Kingston and had to look elsewhere and
you you connect to that stretch of Ducks Ferry that follows the water, you know, it could be a benefit later on that they just tap into that. Well, >> you're spending the money to dig anyway. Could it be something that potentially have future
if they wanted to put in a couple of houses down there that they would at least have a chance to be able to hit that >> fein line that can do that. You can have a separate you can have the pressure tie-ins and that I thought about that too. You can look at it though. The low spot is right where
>> um Bay Road comes down and what's the Ling Road? Ling road where the where the the school is Lauren comes down and then then you got the right in front of Maramar where the pond is that's >> starts going uphill. So that that's very difficult to get
gravity from there >> from there to the River Street pump station. I I'm guessing right now but I would say the inlet pipe at the River Street pump station is probably 8 or 10 feet below ground. >> Yeah, maybe you could.
>> Oh yeah. So that last stretch could be pretty well. >> That's what I was saying. You go up to a point and then go grab it. That's I don't think you do the whole thing. >> Yeah. And possibly not, but you know. >> So we have one we have one pump station right in front of Ali's house gravity, you know, that kind of thing. >> Yeah. Do we want to one more thing? Do
we want to do we want to entertain a thought of all those systems are going to have to be pumped and dumped? Do we want do we want to look at and ask if they'll they'll contract with us to have them whatever pumping goes down there we take it to
our station to get rid of it. >> Well, a lot of people do dump in Kingston because our rates and the convenience of it all. Um but we but would we later on entertain them and
having them say okay to the homeowners and the condo association you can get whoever you want to pump it we would prefer or dump it at our station. >> Yeah and and and we can pick up a benefit of you know septage. We at this
point we don't have a shortage of requests to come dump but >> okay >> it'd be nice to throw it out there and say hey if you do come to our stage we'd accept the waste water from your septage tanks >> right right >> we're right here convenient to dump and
>> yeah because we could benefit from the other end of that as well >> if they're a customer like that see this is a little unique >> we don't have septic tanks on most any of our systems now that I which I find it strange that they need a septic tank just to tie into a
>> they don't that's why I brought this up is that that that was their recommendation. I think that's coming from the board of health. If I was to go back to this again >> the next iteration it would be you don't need them. >> Well, none of us none of us >> this was me probing where did this come from. >> Yeah. Yeah. Yeah.
>> Yeah. I was getting I couldn't make sense of why that was even occurring. >> All of our project it's all goes in one pipe, >> right? My my sense is if it's something duary, the duary answer is >> this is not your jurisdiction. You have nothing to do with it. Get out of the
freaking way. That's the answer. Now, that's the way I talk sometimes. Okay. But it's the truth. You know, there's no reason. This is this nothing to do with the board of health anymore. >> Yeah. They might be just thinking along Title five, but tying into a septic
system. I mean, into a >> town. They're no longer under type five. >> Not to not to disparrage anybody in Ducks because I like Ducks. They're a good place, >> but they don't have a sewer system. They don't think that way. >> Right. >> Yeah.
>> Okay. So, this is a this is a lit learning curve. >> Yeah. >> Inherently, it could be more of a problem than a benefit. >> It can be a big problem. >> If you got groundwater influencing a tank that has a drink in it, crack in it, right? That's true. >> So for me, I would come back and say both
of these guys say they we don't need it. Put, you know, of all make sure everything in the streets 8 in. Make sure the connections are four. Make sure you have them so that the hydraulic capacity is right and you get a maybe one or two holding tank. I don't know,
one or two pump stations even um that that work in a way that makes it you know we can augment them. So with this septic um septic going septic is the odor. It can be a real problem. >> Yeah, they actually did Plymouth too, right? Because it it's
pipe. >> Yeah, it eats away stuff. We have they had the wrong pipe. They had steel and they had concrete pipe. >> Belmont has the same issue. So they have pumping down in hole that gets pumped all the way to their >> treatment plant
>> and it's same thing. It's it's that off gas and the >> hydrogen sulfide and everything else >> just sits there. >> So then they have to throw the additives in there just to refresh it to get >> and then the additives screw up the treatment process because now you're
having this thing that's not supposed to be there that you have to now >> add much more oxygen, much more aeration to get it out of there. And so you're fighting yourself. So I just I know that's a big issue. >> Yeah. If I was a homeowner and I'm I'm paying a user fee because they're going to be paying for how much they use a
user fee and then all of a sudden every three years I got to have somebody pump the system. >> Yeah. >> Yeah. >> It's like that doesn't make any sense to me. >> Well, and that's that's one thing that we'll we'll put in the contract as far as the user. So, yeah, we can talk about it >> based on the water >> based on Dexterity's water bill. You
know, >> how how we going to build? We have the engine. >> I mean, >> yeah, >> this this I mean taking out a sept there this there's going to be 120 septic tanks. >> Take that. >> That's a half a million dollars easy
just to buy them. Haven't put them in the ground yet. >> Well, yeah. To to Bill's point, >> it's leakage. I mean, >> that's what I was saying. Yeah. A 1500 gallon tank. That's why what I was saying is you're into the groundwater table now. And when there's so much
clay, the whole thing is going to be in the groundwater table. So that you have to anchor them all. Now you start anchoring every single tank. You start getting into 10 or $15,000 for each tank. >> It's could it hurt the environment over time. >> Yeah. If you take the tank out of the
equation, then people don't have to think about whether they're going to get it pumped or not or forget about it for 15 years. They haven't pumped it >> and it's so exactly >> all these >> one less cost for the home. Then this is all >> and the builder. >> All right, good. >> Okay, that's all good news.
>> And it's it would be for title five estimate at 400 bedrooms would be 44,000 gallons per day for my plant. >> Yeah, we were looking at 42 the other number I think. Yeah. So 40 go the high number. >> Yeah, I'm just I'm just planning
everything even if the contract says up to 400 apartments um bedrooms or whatever. >> And it's only two people living in the house. That's not you're never going to see that. that flow >> 55 gallons a day.
>> Yeah, we'll have to consider side. So on the maintenance side, >> a lot on the maintenance side, you look at what we've run into at Riverside Drive. You look at what we've run into on Marian Drive. Um, you know, definitely maintenance, we should have something
kind of tied in there with the contract. If they did have the individual tanks, that would keep all the solids on their end, whether they're rags or or whatever. >> Uh if it is something they eliminate all their tanks and have just a pump
station, they could just be responsible for pumping their own pump station and just getting the liquid to us. And we can build into the pump station two things to pump into the homeowners association that they don't throw certain things they can't put in the
sewer, >> you know, and or andor in the pump station itself, they put in some grading protection system that they don't get rags in there so it doesn't if the stuff gets to our pump station, they're
they're paying for it. >> Then then we'll address that. >> That would make more sense. Let them say >> there's going to be somebody as many letters as you drop on door. >> You found that out. >> So that's what I'm saying. Put it in the homeowners agreement. I was do that. Y >> so everyone gets that little piece of
paper and then they can be one they can be the ones going back and enforcing that rule, not us. >> Yeah. >> And then we have something like a like a two a two apartment should be anyways a two compartment tank >> with a baff top and bottom. Yep. >> So grease and oils on one side, solids
on this side, and have some kind of a rack in between the two tanks. And then so none of them big gets through. And then >> they're responsible for that pump station either way. And they have to start. They're going to go back and say, "Hey, you know, it's a $15,000 pump, guys." >> Yeah. As long as we have some sort of
safeguards in place for us. Human nature is human nature. >> Right. Right. Okay. And so we would so um from CDM's perspective we they would review whatever plans they come up with and who does the construction from the
their property to our pump station. >> They would do it. >> They do. >> Oh >> construction I think they let them do the whole thing is CDM overseas. >> Okay. >> CDM oversee everything from their pump station to our pump station. Okay. >> Let them be they're responsible for their stuff. So, we're going to get give
or take $6 million for the for the use of them you for for them using a system. >> Not a million off because it's going to be ende. But yes, up on that haven't been
>> Yeah, moving like four million >> towards our our project because basically half the leeching field. >> Yeah. >> Is being covered in this one project. So, more or less. >> Yeah. uh future expansion, right? Which
if we have the the we have the area and the infrastructure and we can continue to expand and satisfy the needs of more and more parks in the town even, you know. >> Yeah. Take care of this thing as a separate issue, but we haven't talked about that too much yet. How that
>> Yeah. Do you want to get into that next? >> Um if it's okay. >> Sure. >> So, I think everyone finally I apologize. I don't know how this thing didn't get attached the right way, but everyone had a chance to look at the TDM thing. You got this? I hope >> I don't think I did.
>> Sorry. I sent that everybody. >> I got the I got the >> All right. Well, let me just >> You just >> Yeah, this Well, this is what we've been talking about along. There's nothing really changed other than this is now upgraded. >> Okay.
>> It back up. This is a this is a 30% engineering design proposal from CDM to uh to look at all that those plans that we've been I've been showing everybody in the figures in the background here. This has been upgraded.
So this is the this will include all the areas that were not done as a part of the original plan that has gone through MEPA has gone through all the pro uh environmental reviews 25 years ago and has been since updated in 201
18 19 through the uh >> whatever the management plan >> master plan that was done okay on nitrogen issues okay so this doesn't even deal with the nitrogen issues that we were recommended in that plan other than what we are doing is all consistent
with that plan. So, uh it also includes town and country. We have we have worked out a way to make the town of country $2 million estimate that was done several years ago is now closer to $150,000 for them to hook up
to a sewer. They'll be this main sewer that'll be in the ind in the it's independent. >> I think that's independent. The next road over which was beyond our sewer would now be a pump a pump be a gravity line back to the back of the property the back down the end of the street and
pump station up. So town of country can go right into a manhole at the bottom line and everything gets pumped up. So that force man that originally talking about going all the way out of town country up to route 53 and all the way down 53 to our first manhole goes away. >> Right. We're coming through the pack. So that's all done. And then all the rest
of these pink areas, the priority one is South Street going from the existing pump station on 106 at the Jones River, which was put there again for the reason of doing what we're doing now. It would come up around South Street up 106 to South Street around and connect back to
Elm Street back to the river. And there are four shallow wells that represent 50% of the Kingston water supply now which have not had have gone from zero nitrogen 25 years ago in them to now three to five parts per million. 10 is
the place where you have to start treating that water for public consumption at a cost of around 7 to10 million present day cost. So there's a real issue there with who's going to pay for this that I think the town has to look at. And then the other areas was we
added a study area which is Main Street based on other person's requests and up here at uh on Ocean Hill which was always on there but didn't have the kind of failure rates of at the time and we ran out of capacity. So the sewers going up Smith
Lane it does it's all up there for this reason >> but we it was not a priority >> 20 years ago. What was priority was what we did. >> So nothing here is new. Okay. >> Nothing at all is new except for town of country. I mean in terms of the old
plan. So um this now represents an estimate of $70,000. It represents a 30% design but most of that 770 half of it is survey detailed survey location of all the lots. You'll see in
the propo in the proposal they I asked them to go up and and I know Dave everybody's been looking at this. >> Yeah. >> How many in order for us to get a handle on what's the gross number of new connections and gross number of of uh capacity we've looked at this fairly and now
wants to talk to us a little bit. Um we looked at this and to make sure the capacity we just talked about having available is still there. >> Yeah. >> So we finished building out what we have. Add Town Country. Add this other thing. We still might have a little bit left over um but not a lot.
So, um, this comes out to be that 700 and 700 5,000. I'm sorry. 75,000. That's the number you have on your >> Yeah, I remember that it's like 704. So, yeah, >> 75. So
initially we think we thought that we had enough money available from uh the 1.9 million savings of the leeching field that we were able to attain. >> Yeah. >> And we still have some resident residue of that and that's a question for
discussion. But um what's critical about getting this going now is in order to get in line for the the state revolving fund priority list, we have to have enough information in this 30% design to
get on that priority list this August. So if we going forward with this, this going to start like a month and they will go zipping through the summer doing survey and doing the analysis that's in here for needs and all that laying out the the sewer the
force main and sewer gravity sewers are laid out already in here in terms of linear feet. We're talking about a lot of linear feet. So u you know doing a quick engine a 30% design engineering basis of how big should the pump stations be? we have enough all these kind of things and we may be able to add
in there some things that Dave comes up with as he's working through this but um again the priority is getting this on the SRF so we can start construction phase it any way we want to but have the SRF approval in the 2027
fiscal year. >> Okay. No, I'll bring I'll say back to you the funds from this the revenue from this can we pay for the 30% design >> I don't see >> and get and get it just like it's just
like that >> if we get this straightened out I don't see why we I mean >> that's why the phrase fees >> I don't see why not if you know having what we >> because they're going to be paying for the construction of the project they're paying paying for everything outside of
what they're giving us for the use of the plant. Correct. >> Yeah. >> They're paying for it all up front. It's not really going to be a betterment over a 20 year period, >> right? Like you just said, it's a fee. They're paying up front. That's it. >> We don't have to put it in the bank and
and draw. >> It's not paying debt. >> We're not paying debt. I just >> We're not paying debt as a result of that project. >> Right. The only question I'd have is using this money, the piece that we get
for offsetting our debt that we already know is in 27 28 29 >> that let's call it 75%. Uh we believe that's like $23 million. >> Well, if it's if it's a $6 million
project and it's 50% it would be at least it would be three million. >> Yeah. I'm telling you we went to full Yeah. Then then then then we take in 700,000 and that's that's that could go up with changes in order. So think about 8 800,000. So, I'm looking back at these
folks right here, >> right? And that would give us the money to supplement until some of these kick in cuz the what we want to do with the rest of the town may not happen um within the next year or
two because like you said we want it to be collaborative with conservation board of health the selectman everybody needs to be a collaborative effort to get it before the body being tile meeting But of that we can probably get town and
country then right >> because that's like >> but we we have to have me this is so >> this is 30% design. So when we get 30% design in July August you know just in the nick of time to get on the SRF list
we now have to go back and get another >> three 400,000 to finish the design. >> Okay. >> Okay. maybe 500,000 depends on what the details are. So there's another piece. >> So that would that would be to get us to
100%. >> We'll get to 90% drawings. So that money would have to come out of somewhere. Maybe that's maybe the money we have saved. >> Okay. >> Want to lose sight of the cash flow here,
>> right? that they they need >> they need to worry about. This is this gets us a big and we we also don't have we stop right there for a second. So that that would work, but we just got to have our eyes wide open that the cash flow issue is still right >> paramount, >> right?
>> And and I have a you know I I no matter what we have to do, we have to go to town meeting next spring. Not this spring, next spring. We got to have we have to have all this ready for town meeting next spring. And and the whole, you know, the importance of it, again, I've said it,
I'll say it again. I think the town is way over with the water supply issue. Um, this is not a shared one-third 2/3 anymore. This is more 5050 at the at the least in probably one third two/3s the other way. >> Yeah. >> Okay.
>> Those are real numbers. But again, it's amatized over time. It's not It's not going on the tax rate in one year. It's going to be amatized and we're going to have a betterment. It's not going to be 40. It's probably going to be 44. It's going to be 45. It's going to be something like, you know, because >> Yeah. Escalation. We're already 2%.
>> Escalation this year is already 2.5% in one month. Okay. Right. So, >> so let's so taking this into consideration the numbers you've given us and what we need to get to 90%. Let let's work on it. See where we end
up what what you which flows into your your next uh conversation on what we need for money. Yeah. >> So, what I'd like to do tonight is to make a motion to
>> for me representing the commission to go back to CDM and authorize this >> um proposal and I'll work on the details with this so that it's not we're not signing tonight. Okay. I recommend that we go forward with this phase of the design and engineering um so that we can
begin this work as soon as possible um utilizing existing revenue. >> Okay. >> Anticipating this money based on what we just talked about cash on hand
>> that allows us to go forward. Make sense? >> Yeah. That's for discussion. I just I'll make that motion. >> What do you think? Give me somebody I guess. >> I mean we want to move forward. We want we want to get the studies done recommendations on which one of the most pri what area is going to be the most
prioritized. I know cell street is is big because of the wells the wellhead and such and the other stuff can be phased phased in as we go along. >> Yeah we that's exactly right. We can phase them in but we got to get to 100% design. >> We know what the cost is and we can say we're going to this one off later. >> As long as we have enough money
somewhere along the lines to pay for it. >> Yeah. I mean, I'd rather pay to tell you the truth. But the debt's locked in and it's actually at a pretty decent rate. So sometimes you don't want to pay that money off if you don't if you don't have to. >> Well, that's it. If you pay it if you pay it off, it doesn't change anything.
>> No, >> because we tried that years ago and the SRF said, "No, no, >> it's not really beneficial to you." >> Brian's right. We need to go back with this >> based on one thing I didn't mention. I did talked about this with Dave a little bit. I mean
this the based on our existing betterments and the number of lots and hooking up based on this assessment that they did part of the proposal. This is about this capital cost for this whole phase is around $11
million. There's not a lot of big it's not a lot of complicated. There's three or four pump stations and on a gravity tour and um just >> we have to be out of here at 5:30. I'll have to check. >> Okay. >> So, the uh
but with the betterments we have now, we're still I think going to be in at least five to six million, probably closer to $10 million in ahead ahead on the on the fee on the money acred or we uh the betterment money we get is going
to be 10 million of that, 8 million of that, something like that is going to be going towards that that existing debt. The rest of this pays for the existing the debt that's going to be accured by this. Again, this is the our betterment numbers reflected phase two and other
work that was done to upgrade this part of the number and and I go back in this the betterment will probably go up by the time we get this in a year and a half and we start actually doing it. So, uh either way you look at it, we got to we got to we're going ahead of the curve
and if we're not ahead of the curve, we'll change it so we are ahead of the curve when we get to that point. So either way you look at it, we're going to be forward thinking and and and having revenue that not puts us in a doesn't keep us in a hole that we're all worried about. >> Okay. Um, how could I'll make a motion
to um allow you to to report back to CDM that uh we want to move forward with this um 30% design um
pending the pending um the acquisition of the funds. >> Yeah, >> I'll second that. >> Okay. >> All in favor? Hi. >> Hi. >> Real quickly, well, I will we'll wait to get this draft agreement. We'll make
that a separate totally separate >> agreed >> thing. Totally separate. Just part of this. Nothing to do with it. >> Right. >> Paid for us completely separately. >> Okay. >> Yeah. That way they won't have to worry about it. >> Right. >> That's in the other motion. We're all done. Okay. >> Okay. >> Great. That was a good day. >> So, in case we have to leave at 5:30,
why don't you go, Dave? Because I know you had >> It's going to be a quicky. just in case we have to go. >> Yeah, do that. Do your >> I'll pass out. So, >> this is something I emailed everyone today.
>> Yeah, I just saw it. >> Just read it at your own leisure, Brian. This is probably no news feed, but just something you can read on your own. Um, it has to do with what I really want to talk about, which is this.
And I can give you a copy. >> Energy. I love it. >> Yeah. >> And cost savings. >> Not trucking out sludge anymore. >> So, a little bit. >> Yeah. Just what I've been looking at and
Jeanie and myself have been looking at um is just our overall outlook where we've done our fiscal year 27 budget. Uh we've done a great job with everything
so far, but just looking forward this is kind of a 10,000 foot view. So, I just I'll kind of read through a few items, but I want to just kind of give this as an overview of what I see as some hurdles that we have ahead of us
and just how the department looks going forward and what maybe might be some suggestions and some plans on how to get where we needed to get to. Um, I figured just putting it down in writing would kind of help kind of put us all on the same page and get a discussion going.
Uh essentially since the plant reached 80% capacity which we required which was required um under our D permit we had to upgrade the size of the plant. So with the upgrade on the plant and the new
reaching fields to match the capacity of the upgraded plant and replace the 25y old legion fields. We've had many challenges during that time. the water moratorum stopped any additional new growth on the system and recently uh with the water moratorum
being lifted. We're starting to see some new customers tying into our system right now. It's been some onesies and twzies and uh what I just ties into um the discussion we just had about you know bringing mayor
Mara. So, I want to begin to recognize that uh addressing these financial challenges, it's been a group effort and I appreciate, you know, the group that we have, everyone working together, being on the same page. So, we're looking forward to running as
effectively as possible. We adjusted our rates last year. We increased our septage revenue and above and beyond that to cover our debt we used article money to to cover any
shortcomings. So going forward, we kind of anticipate the same through 2027 with our 20 26 rate structure that we've been using. The additional septage revenue and using article money and free cash will be able
to cover FY27. We need to look as a department on how we can cover the increasing operational costs at specifically in FY28 and beyond with the rising electricity charges and
contract services alone rising approximately $100,000 in FY26 and our debt shortfall. We're not going to be able to sustain the burn rate of running through article money going
forward. slow. Again, 10,000 foot view. Um, I wanted to at least point out some of the things I'm seeing and I feel like with everything else we've done, everything is on the table, but in the next 12
months, there's a few things I'd like to see accomplished. Uh and one's relating to the backend data, >> tracking information, um confirming all aspects of the department data and finances and be
trending towards a goal of onboarding new customers during that time to aid in the operating budget and our debt service. again tying into this Miramar project that'll help with the operational cost by have more users and
uh helping out with our Fed service. Um I also want to start looking at some alternative electric and sludge solutions. Um I was actually looking through one of the players in Greece. I'll try and keep
this as brief as possible, but there's a company I reached out to. I haven't heard back from them yet, but this is called Trashology. They're out of They're a Massachusetts based company out of conquered. They have portable ConX boxes that they use
to take trash and turn it into electricity. >> Do the same thing for sludge. So, it kind of got me on the framework of thinking about our sludge costs and our electric costs. So,
our electricity has gone up $50,000 this year. Uh, overall electric cost for FY27 is going to be about 400,000. Our lunch cost for 27 is going to be about 240,000. So, right there between
those items, you're looking at $640,000. >> And what's the total um operating budget without debt? a million one million two. >> Yeah. >> So 50% of it is electricity and sludge contract >> sludge. >> Yeah. >> I just wanted to put that into
perspective. >> So I started you know it's just one of those things 10,000 foot view. We can look at it a little deeper and some of our alternative options and that's where I came up with this mass study and I started looking at it. Some of it you
might not see a cost recovery for 20 years. So to me that's a little too far out to recover money. But just some data to start thinking about losses going forward 10,000 foot view. Um
we do as Jeannie and I have been going through a lot of things and Elaine as well um we've come up with a lot of finance questions. Um, and it's not in particular to any particular person or department, but
overall since the beginning of the time, there's been a lot of overhead, excuse me, a lot of change in each department. So, there's within the wastewater department, we've had a period, we had five different admins over a very short time, >> right?
>> The finance department has gone through some changes. The incessor department, the collector's department. So some of the data we're getting is based on someone who was here two or three people ago. So we keep spending quite a bit of our time
reviewing what we don't know is confirmed data or is it just best guess. Uh so going forward we want to get to the point that we can actually look at a number and say this is legit. We have
one piece of paper that says we might have a short ball of 120,000. The next piece of paper might say, you know, it's 350,000. So you might have a $200,000 swing on the same item. So it's hard to
forecast next year based on numbers that you don't know. You you're around the target, but you don't know. And we have to know our numbers. So, um, based on that, Jeie and I were talking about maybe committing a two, three,
four hour window one day a week and just shut the office, no interruptions that we can at least go parcel by parcel, make sure that each property has been accounted for, that they've been build,
that they weren't missed on an assessor sheet for a period of six or eight years. that the money collected went into the right account that it didn't go to the general fund as opposed to the wastewater account. So these are things we can do internally. Jeie has gone
through classes on the munis to find out on the back end how to deal with all this stuff. And I think between the two of us, we work well together in kind of encapsulating all the different avenues we're going to run down to to coordinate
this stuff. >> Uh some of our debt schedules we have we we've had questions about it. Genie went right to the DLS and actually got the physical debt schedule. So we're not relying on is this accurate? Is it not
accurate? It's DLS information. So we want to carry that through our customer base. Do we have all our accounts as far as users? How many we have? Is it accurate? We have different models and
some might be 25 or 15 numbers off from each other. We need a number that we can say this is the number. It's not. It might be this or it might be that. So this is how we want to carry it forward. instead of bouncing back and forth going down these rabbit holes. We'd like to
get that information. We need it for our department going. >> It makes sense because you the past year, year and a half, it's been trying to nail it, but everything else got in the way. There was the It's impossible
to do it with just the two of you or the the staff we currently have. It's impossible unless you literally you have to, like you said, close the door, commit to the hours, whatever that may be, to get to the other side of
this. And that's why that part-time person in the office is so critical as well because once this is is done, which is going to take a good amount of time, um it's maintaining it >> because there are no computer systems or
software for betterments or anything like that outside of um what's in Ununice. Yeah, this is something we can try to work on even through some of our existing uh software like GIS do some sort of overlay use something that we
have plus you know coming up with our own system that works u but that'll help us with total availability available capacity and even have a running chart that now that we know that number is available and accurate and we know that
sayar or another client comes on and they use X amount and that'll be subtracted from and we'll have a hopefully an accurate system that has availability for what's out at Milgate, what's out at South
Street, what's available then for Main Street or any other location town or country. Uh so with that being said, um some of the potential customers that I had listed on here, uh we discussed in the past down
the country, the South Street and Railgate area. Um, I wrote down new area potential, which turned out to I didn't want to put it on here without being discussed tonight, but Myramar,
um, Ocean Hill, 100 homes, the Main Street area, 95 to 100 homes. Um and if these are areas that we can't get something secured um relatively soon that we're looking at
the FY28 29 years then we almost have to look at other options whether it's >> uh Silver Lake tying in uh Dubberry that coastal route Maple Street might get
developed in the future around the fire station that area and some lambs over there. So we don't all also want to uh short change that all our stuff is
basically accounted for somewhere and we don't have enough to cover say a Maple Street development within the town itself. So this I think this plan going forward will have a a good picture you know of all our details within the department.
to Wayne's point. It's not going to happen overnight, but and there's a lot of uh lot of data to gather. >> Just interrupt for a second. There's one thing that's on here that I think fits into this is the uh >> the uh project that's up by the MBTA
station 40B project, which is 142 units, right? >> Oh, what? >> Kushman. >> Yeah. What is it? >> That's not on this list that he has right here. >> Correct. That's that's a more close likelihood of >> how many units.
>> Okay. >> 144 >> 1442 something like that. >> And just to reiterate, not reiterate, but that is now in here. A gravity sewer from um Marian Drive from that location now down to the pump station on Marian Drive
is part of this project we just approved. >> Okay. >> As another add-on to looking at that. >> Okay. And so, yeah, >> that that's that that's to get to your point, that's a sooner than later kind of money. >> Gotcha. It's either not going to happen
or soon as it's one or the other. >> I'm going to tear that road up again. >> And and to back out some while we're a little sidetracked on that point is at one point, >> there was a mathematical
uh equation that we started looking at. This was this was Elaine's heavy heavy lifting. Um somewhere in the 320 to 350,000 would would get us more squared away to break even point as far as debt and
operating expenses and stuff. So every time we can get closer to that target number, it's going to make carrying the weight around here that much easier. So this Mariramar is definitely a good jump
on on this potential customer list. >> That's right there is a bit sign. That's like a big chunk of it. >> Yeah. Somewhat, right? >> Yeah. >> 24,000 gallons per day is um how many
EUs? Let's see by 330 I use for Maramount. >> Yeah, >> that's 400 bedrooms, right? >> Yeah. 400 bedrooms >> equals 44,000 gallons per day
>> by title 5 divided by 330 $5.3 million. So times.75 is 300 $4 million right there which we're going to use $700,000. So we got $3 million. So there's 10 years of that 300,000 to stock rush.
>> Yeah. Three 300 >> not all at once. I mean >> 320 erus. >> I have 133 of that. Okay. >> Out of the uh yeah three. So that's a third a third of the way there.
>> Yeah. >> Um we also have one here. >> So like I said, everything's on the table. This is just a 10,000 foot discussion. If we're not getting these potential customers in the rate we're looking at,
um the longer it takes, the more we're going to be stabbed into our article. So, some potential options other than getting the new customers is potentially raising the leech and field rate to four quarters instead of two.
Um, and I'm just throwing ideas out. I don't want anyone to come with pitch just ideas for >> So, I discussed that our electric rates are going up in our contract services by
100,000. If we increase our user rates by 2% based on our consumption in FY25, that would only raise $32,891, which does not even keep up with our
electric and sludge increase of $100,000. So, we do have to start considering what our rates are on a yearly basis. And that's something we did discuss when we did our rate increases. Um,
if you were to combine the four quarters of the leeching field, clearly the 2% increase here, you call it a $200,000 increase on just in one year. Just this is all food for thought.
um which decreases our need of 360,000 shortfall to approximately 160,000 shortfall which by every time you increase your rates and decrease your shortfall it's less you're stabbing into
your article money and extend us out another year that we're a little safe while some of these projects take place. So I'm just again just throwing those things. >> Yeah. No, that's good. discussion. Then if we go to the Thank you. Yeah.
Some of the questions Jeanie and I have run into is uh are they missing betterments payment through history? Uh we started doing some research about a year ago, but then we got tied up with some other things that kind of fell off
fell off the plate. Uh some of our debt charts showing that our original debts dropping off in 2030, but some years show loan payments possibly in some of these. So these are things that genius
can look at and track down. Um basically are all people on the system paying and have they been build year by year? Are there any years that were not build? of have all payments been applied to the wastewater account or have any gone into
the general fund? Found one instance where some money went into the general fund, but it was discovered by Genie and it actually went back into our account. So, these are things that I don't want to say haven't happened prior, but we've
had a period that for five years or seven years, we had short-term admins that might not cost something. certainly could be. It may be zero, but there could be something there on its history. And that's why we've got to go
from day one and start looking at every every bit of this. Um, another question, and this is something I brought up to Brian the other day, is why is there a deficit in phase one and two of approximately
$70,000 a year? and Brian had his suspicions on why that happened, but I think, you know, we have to at least determine how accurate that is. Um, to me, phase one and phase two should have been paid for by all the users and
their betterments and then we had additional people come on since then, >> right? >> So, to me, there shouldn't be a shortfall of phase one or two. if it exists, we'll get to the bottom of it and find out where it is and how much it is. But, you know, there's 70,000 that
could be discovered. That's that's quite a help. Uh, and another question we ran into is why do we only have 50,000 in interest on a yearly basis? If the mall prepaid us 1.6 million, we have 900,000 in article
money. That's $2.5 million. at 4% should be closer to a h 100,000 in interest a year. So that doesn't even include any prepaid funds that were prepaid for feds. There's some people that prepaid. I have
some notes that say we have as many as 453 properties that have been paid off or prepaid. So they be well north of $2.5 million. We should be seeing somewhere in the range of 4% on >> where you keep coming up with a 4%
interest rate on money put aside. Is that a go for municipality? >> I don't know. >> It's usually put it's usually less than a percent if you put it into a standard checking savings. >> Is is that something we could do something about >> if they're only getting one or two%?
>> Yeah. I mean, even my bank office for a savings account 05% >> on a savings account. >> On a s just a basic savings. We've got 1.6 sitting in >> if you if you go into a money market account. Yes. You could probably get three two and a half to three. No,
>> dude. Well, to the point. Yeah. >> Uh two two three years ago, you could have easily gotten a a uh 10-year 10-year CD type of account at 4.8 because I had it myself. I have one >> now. They're down at like three and a
half% now. >> Oh, three and a half. >> But but back then that it's your point. We're going back in time. So >> yeah, >> the last couple of years seeing those kind of numbers to me it's just surprising. >> No, no one ever transferred the money into a higher yield there and for the
for the after four years ago it went up before that it was you were lucky to get any kind of percentage at all. >> Right. Right. >> So I'm just just curious but I understand what you're saying. >> Just more questions. >> Okay. Yep. Yep. >> And if if there is an option to do something,
>> let's see what we can do. If not if not give us 50,000 more a year that covers your >> I got >> electric work. >> Uh something safe. >> Um why is the MP MWPAT pool 11 CS0442
and 42A not getting the one-third tax levy applied? That was part of phase one and two. >> If it's the plan, Was it the plan? That's a I don't know. >> That's a very interesting point. If that
was part of the original pay, >> that's a good one. >> So that right there, 42 is uh oneird of that would be 54,000 a year and 42A would be 80,000 is
34 $135,000. again. No co uh >> that's phase one. >> It's phase one two. Yeah. The original plan.
>> Yes. Yeah. Okay. >> It's not the upgrade. >> Okay. >> Uh and those >> very very interesting. >> Those two loans expire in 2036 and 2037. >> Okay. There's phase one. phase two which took
it all the way down to um >> yeah to Kingsbury whatever that I call I call them phase two the town did not contribute towards that >> they didn't want >> they did not >> but that's probably that
>> that's probably those two right there >> the reasoning behind why they didn't >> it was just not going to happen >> so these are all things that kind of >> um stumbled into just more questions.
>> Uh yeah, we have some years that some of our on a sheet that our debt fluctuates from 1.862 to 2.022 depending on which sheet of paper we look a difference of $158,000
a year. So all these little pieces and parts we've got to get to the bottom to help us. move forward. Uh, I have in bold here, and this is more for me, but I just wanted it so I made sure I follow
up on it. And this might be Brian's uh wheelhouse. the uh final plan and the EIR covers the financing of the project. The original documentation
from when you know 1998 when the whole system was decided to be put together. There's a there's a section in there that I just found out is dedicated to financing the original >> Oh, really? >> phase two.
>> Oh, okay. Yeah. Oh, good. >> The draft EI the final facility plan. >> Yep. Um, so that's something maybe we can dig up and look through and try and pull apart and see how it matches up with what orig
>> Yeah, basically I just want to trust and verify all the information. So, um, with all that brainstorming that took place there, any, um, thoughts, suggestions, you know, I'd definitely like any additional input. Um, I just
want to make sure we get to a clear path that going forward, we we have our eyes on being more fiscally secure than we are at this point. And I just bullet pointed some of the different things that I brought up in that discussion
that phase one phase two um which I point out was not covered that uh 42 and 42A wasn't covered by the uh one/3 by the town. >> I'll confirm that that's what we considered phase two.
>> Okay. uh debt fluctuations on some of the spreadsheets as much as 159,000. We pinpoint that. Hopefully, it's closer to the lower number. Um interest potential
potential gain of potentially 50,000. >> I'm sorry, this you said potentially lower number. Which lower number are we talking about that fluctuations? So, um, the page prior I had a sheet that basically said just above the, uh, highlighted the old above the bold print
on the FF >> that some sheets show a difference of 159 from each other. >> And we're hoping it's 1.8 million, not 2.0. >> Correct. >> Okay, I got it. Not yet. >> Uh and then like I said, the potential
interest on our money that's sitting from the mall and various other areas uh additional billing out from the Legion field is a potential um increase rates just by 2%.
phase one and phase two debt shortfall. Um that's where the betterments don't exactly cover the debt on phase one and two by 63,760. So we kind of look into where is that
shortfall coming from. um the town contribution for the leeching field. That's something as spring town meeting shows up. I imagine we want to potentially put that out as you know one
of our requests. I imagine because we have to do that each year, right? That wasn't a recurring >> Right. Correct. >> Correct. Um so there's 137820 any revenue shortfalls that Jeie and I uh find through our research obviously
those are unknowns could be zero it could be something north of that uh new com customers or individuals or large projects that tie on obviously just that discussion tonight with myar could be a huge number for us and then following up
with uh different options for electrical or flood savings >> and I think this is an excellent >> we've got to hit all targets >> distillation of what you know what we need to you know it's it's I looked at as a maturation of what we've been going through for the last year and a half
getting and really >> you know everybody knows what they're talking about. >> Yeah, this is excellent. >> Yeah, good job. And you can see down the bottom the sludge approximately 250,000 per year and electrics 400,000 per year. Just so everyone has the same numbers that have
been bouncing around and our collective thoughts during time we've been fighting this battle. But any input any thoughts? You want to take it with you? Absorb some of it. And
>> I had a couple just quick. I think some of this we've talked a little bit but um first of all both of you working on this and having that dedicated some time I think very important and critical early on but I would recommend and we've we've
tried to do this with Erin Benoy and what she was doing with us she started to help I think Jean quite a bit getting into this and then we lost her services but maybe this new person we're going to hire could have become the person who you train you know, you've got I know
for myself I I don't like to give anything to somebody unless I can get understand understand it intimately and then say, "Okay, now I know where we're going. Now you can take it and then I can watch you over that." So I think that's kind of where we are where you know and get this new person in there with someone like Aaron who's already up the learning curve but you know someone
who can do that. The second part of that comment is I've said this before. I'm ticked off more than ever with not having an accountant that accounting system, an accountant working for us. That's not it. We should have someone working for us and take the money out of
that money we give to the town and take it back and hire somebody. And it might be an interim person, it might be a temporary person, it might be a full-time person because I think the water commission needs the same help. But and I made getting someone like a Ben Houston and Suzanne Susan and to
help again to go back to the history because you're going back to the beginning. There's nobody better to know the beginning than the people who are doing it and doing it right. So I just offer that as an idea because I think Susan was would be willing to do that. >> Just make your job a little easier. But I think where you're starting it from is
the right way to go. >> And that'll be good once you start digging into this depending on how far back um the questions that come up pull in the resources that you know may be willing to help to answer the questions.
>> I'd be I'd be surprised if the time that Susan was here any she's not perfect. Nobody's perfect. I mean the way it was being done she had the beginning and she set it up right. we were working very closely together. >> So I think it all started to happen with
new people coming in didn't have their job and we've had what six or seven eight people very quick and then we have Gene is all comes right in. Oh wait a minute. >> Yeah I agree. >> Yeah. So >> I agree. >> So when Suzanne had come in she answered
several questions like why was there only interest from these three years and and you know was able to go into detail as to what transpired and that history that >> and a good thing too is to to document the wise,
>> you know, >> right? >> So the next group who won't be us isn't going to be going through the same thing. >> Right. Right. We got to get to ground zero. >> So we got like a six or eight month period to kind of get into this and get someone helping us and reach out to
these other folks, you know, over the next couple months. I mean, I I think that would just make all of our jobs, particularly yours, you're going to be in the bun dust, but to get that >> and you won't be spinning your wheels all the time like what's what's right and what isn't >> very important. That's right. That's
>> so the time consuming is insane. >> I'd rather rip the band-aid off and start from ground zero. Know that everything going forward, we can trust the >> Yeah. And then it'll help track when you do getund and some odd people in >> you know it it's gonna it's going to
really really help them. Um, >> and to Brian's point about MLA about having that extra admin to help out, uh, I did have a healthy discussion, uh,
probably an hour and 45 minutes week or so ago with HR and we worked through some of our details that were outstanding. Um, we reviewed the job description for the extra operator and
>> the admin and clarified a few things. So now HR has to take that to the union and pass these two jobs through the union, make sure they don't have any issues with it before it can go the next step. So that was quite a bit of a hold up with
those two positions. Hopefully we'll start getting some movement. In the meantime, that's where I think Dean and I have to start digging into this ourselves because that could be another couple more see any movement um on staffing with the injured
individual. He is being re-evaluated first week of March. I worked with HR to look through the job description and see if we could bring him on back as light duty as he continues to recover.
So that ball is in the court of HR and the insurance company at this point and his medical care. So hopefully we'll get some news in another few weeks beginning of March that potentially we could get him back light duty.
U next week the uh Carl's going in for procedure. We'll be missing him for anywhere from three days to a week. Uh but that'll be short term and um he'll by the time he comes back
and gets gets on the mend Dave is going out for procedure himself in March. So the next couple months we'll have a couple more hiccups. Uh >> at least you're rotating. You're not overlapping. >> Still down some.
>> Yeah, exactly. consistently >> been several days or a week in >> and then update on the Riverside Drive. We continue to have problems over there. So today we actually pulled a basket on Friday and had a pump overload on
Saturday. >> Oh. >> When they were back on Saturday, that basket to catch all the rags was full within 12 hours. So, we decided either tomorrow or Thursday, we're going to go out there and start investigating manhole by
manhole, track this thing down. >> Can you identify what the material is? >> So, we just one of those flushable wipes. >> Okay. >> Not one, but many of them. Whether they're dude wipes or wipes or baby
wipes. >> The size of them children would be about this. The dude wipes should be about this big. >> Yeah. you know, >> trying to pull it apart. >> Yeah, I know. I know. I just >> I just know there and there.
>> Come on. You didn't rinse on it. >> I'll give you a bucket. >> Just leave them on my doorstep. >> Sorry. >> I don't know if I ever told you this. And I was director water pushing. I was getting involved with the NWA big time.
I had a tour of a major uh it was a 12t by 20 foot concrete culvert under the parking lot at Northeast University. >> Mhm. >> In Boston. And it was a trash rack they had to put
in to catch car parts >> that were coming in through manholes that were inside a warehouse that they were chopping up cars and getting rid of pieces. So like I'm there one day and this bumper comes down like a rusty bumper >> the trash wack and they had to put in
because they and they would go back they're doing exactly what you're doing but with carpots trying to go backwards to find out where they finally found the people. >> Oh wow. >> They were stripping cars and doing stuff with him in the main right in the middle of the floor. >> They want to go for a dumpster. >> Oh way up in Roxbury somewhere but you know the thing had gone down. I mean,
they're flowing. If you had it was like a river, you know, it's a giant cver. And I thought if I get to go, hey, this is pretty cool. >> Wow. >> Big steel beach. I mean, it wasn't rags. It was car. >> It's got to be a day guess on it
>> or an adult guess on because because it's just not a household. >> Well, in a day from a Friday to a Saturday. >> Yeah. Yeah. Then Carl's point was if that was someone just cleaning house once a week, it' be a problem once a week. Yeah.
>> And it's just seems to be contined up until that point. But still, if that volume is like that, it's something that's more just a regular house. Somebody's got something going on. >> Yep. >> All right. >> Okay.
>> Well, at least you isolated to that point. I mean, >> it's that neighborhood, but we got to narrow it down section by section. Now, >> anything else you'd like to share that's on the list of the agenda? >> In the public records request, uh, we
haven't heard anything further since >> Trisha reached out to Matt and that's been checking those meetings, but the the lawyer who put the address in hasn't responded that. >> Okay. Just want to make sure that
>> we're meeting any deadlines we need to. Yeah, I think that pretty much covers everything. We haven't moved through our betterment processes because we're waiting till the finance director to get all the budget year stuff squared away. Okay. >> I would have hoped that would have been
this week, but I don't know if that been completed yet, but it's it's on the forefront as one of our next steps. U we have a couple enthusias getting them set up and squared away sooner than later.
Okay. >> Hopefully within the next month. >> Policy question. Just thinking back to the first subject on the agenda on the meeting tonight is policy question on let's say they're going to pay us 75% of
this in cash for our use unrestricted use and their project goes up down the tubes doesn't happen. Uh we're not buying anything back. That's the first policy question I think we've established, right? The second one is how do they what right do they have to
dispose of that to someone? Do they can they sell them? And I don't think we are we we had this issue came up with the BFW I think somewhere. >> Okay. Yes. >> But buying back we didn't really get into the how the answer is. But I think this is one we might want to focus on
that uh because it might come up with uh Kushman Farms. >> Okay. for the same reason. If they, you know, they put that >> but if they prepay, we own the money, but you have a right to sell those at
fair market value only >> through the commission. >> Through the commission, but we never established that. Correct. >> Not. We have for vacant lots. >> Okay. >> But we have not for any property that has a building on it because at the time it the conversation
was if we Say there happens to be a club in town that has five EIUs that a residential home now. >> Um they sell us back that capacity. Right now the whole program was set up
because we didn't have enough capacity. Now if we buy it back we'd be losing money. >> Right. >> Yeah. >> I'm saying we don't pay buy it back but >> there has to be a from a fan point of view. They have bought this. They can't use it. We need the capacity that we've
given them. But to your point, we we should establish a policy and make sure in this agreement that that's something we put in there. So, I'm putting this I'm asking maybe this on the agenda for the next meeting. >> Okay. >> So, that we we make a formal determination at amend our rules and
regulations to reflect it so that any vacant lot that purchases I'm just thinking out loud. Yeah. any vacant lot that purchases a certain amount of capacity and pays for that capacity, whatever that whatever we agree to and that project does not go forward for
whatever reason, those betterment fees, those betterment erus, I should say, are are sellable through the commission at the fair market value of our betterments >> at the time >> and then we reuse them and then we when
they get we get paid, we pay them back. We don't lose any money going forward and we can sell it to somebody else. So each way we're going up in the >> right >> I liked his idea better though where he said we'll pay you 50% upfront whether we use it or not non-refundable and well he said so so if you say okay
give us 25% upfront non-refundable and you don't do the project we keep your money >> you know and then we still get all the back because we haven't sold them anymore. >> Oh I'm not sure. That's, you know, that was just the way to >> I know, but that's what I'm thinking. If he I if I was me, he said that, but he
owns it. So, he's he's using our our potential capacity we need in the future, >> but he doesn't really own it if he doesn't do the project. >> He does. They bought it. >> He's Well, he didn't buy anything yet. He just put a deposit down on something. >> Well, again, I'm thinking the agreement
is you bought it and you own it. So, yeah. >> Well, yeah, but I mean that that would be one one way. I know those people down there that, you know, like that have bought Infinities One, have five, you know, five units, but they only two they only use basically two of them, and they
can't sell them to anybody. Nobody wants them. Well, the same thing with the club that that club that was there and went to a single family home. Now, that that flow is locked up in that property. We we we should have bought it back at 3,500 bucks at the time when they wanted to sell it to us for that because it would have gone back into our flow and
then we could charge you know4. >> That's a little different though that they actually bought it, paid for it, do all that. That's a different thing, >> right? >> Because that was based on a on a policy and a documentation that you know I'm talking about this is like new stuff. I guess I'm not a big >> Yeah. Yeah. I I still need to address
some of the old stuff because we need that flow. >> You got you got that flow sitting there that we can't use and we can't See, he might here's here's here's the rub on that one. We actually have the we have the capacity. If they bought it, >> there's two parts of the equation. They
bought it, but they're not using it and there's no other way for them to do it. But our flow, it's that the plant that we're that's where the number is. So the flow, the ERU is separate really. Yeah. Always separate from the flow. >> So in a way that's a we get a cake and eat it too in this kind of those
situation. But when somebody I mean I'm just thinking a lot if it was me like the cop bunch that's a $4 million done. >> Well, we can put that put this particular contract on the agenda for the next meeting. Yeah. >> If we're if we want to use that as a
model going forward, >> we have to have a public hearing for our rules and regulations. >> So we can talk about this contract >> specifically >> at our next meeting >> because by then we'll have something. Yeah, >> they're putting something together for us.
>> Okay. >> No, I understand. But then again, like like now that that the club now it's it's a it's a single family, so it's only using 330 gallons a day, but there's still, you know, 1,200 gallons a day, you know, that we can't use, but we
can use it if we if we take it off the books and say that now this is what they're locked into and they're never going to be able to use it, but they've already paid for it. But we're going to take that percentage back and put it back on. >> Oh, we should probably come up with something come up with some If there's
someone who no other way they can go and they really can't do it, we're not going to pay them for it, >> but we'll I don't think we should pay anybody. We shouldn't be paying anybody anything, but we'll say we'll broker to go back to the point do us if you want to sell it to them.
>> And that's another whole attitude which they they wanted to do. They wanted to solve it. There was nothing mechanism set up. I think our rules and regulations for vacant lots say it comes it comes back to the commission and I I think that it says if we recoup the
funds by selling it to someone else that they get it. >> Yeah. So we may look at that. >> Yeah. We'll Yeah. But that's that'll be a public hearing. >> Yeah. >> But we can do them specifically at the >> It's only a trust program.
>> But we can make it a policy. One of the things we can do is make it a policy, not a reg. Okay, this is the way deep I always used to force D list. They they go to a regulation. No, no, no, no. You do a policy. You work out the bugs.
You make decisions based on meetings like this with a particular circumstance. So that when you actually put the rug together, you're not creating the problem that you're trying to avoid. Yeah. You know, so this is this is the kind of thing we can do here is make a here's a perfect example. probably use the same thing for the
other project and but come start thinking about what you just brought up because I think it is fair to be able to if somebody wants it but long as nothing's coming out of our account never never give anything back never. >> Yeah. But just we talk about but in
phase one where you know that you paid 13 $13,000 for your for you know and you want to sell that back to us and and so we can sell it to somebody else. trouble. Can we take it back for 13,000? Give them 13 and then sell it for 44.
>> That would that would be my idea. Yeah, >> that would be the greatest that would be the best way to do it. But we'll give you the fair market value which you paid for. >> We'll credit them 13 on the paper. We'll sell for 40 44. Here's your 13. Thank you very much. >> They'll be have that they paid that they
said used it for 25 out of 30 years. >> Bet this is a deal. Yeah. >> So, so that's all that's all good conversation. >> Yeah. It locks them into now that they can't they they can't put another another building on next to that their house. >> We're not a bank, >> you know. But yeah, I know some people
want to get rid of they want to get rid of something. >> Well, but you know, you pay 13, we'll give you 13, but we're going to give it because he's going to give us the 13. >> We're putting it back in the pool and the pool now is this. >> It's 24. So, I think, you know, nothing goes back
>> it to to your to the point you made a little bit ago about um looking into accounting for us and maybe the water department. Um I know I'm aware of an a consulting firm, an a municipal consulting firm. If I could have, you
know, your blessing to go and give them a call and see, you know, maybe what they could do with us. >> Do they work for DM for us and we can back them off as a subcontract? Yeah. Yeah. >> Well, I I Yeah. Anything that's to the point where Yeah. I think anything that could help these folks get something done. Is that what the idea is? Yeah.
>> Well, to help them, but maybe then once it we have it firm, they come in on a annual basis and and validate that. Yes. >> Yes. >> You know, that type just just another set of and it's municipal finance >> just to
>> because we're enterprise funds. We actually should have our own account. I >> I couldn't agree. I think >> and our own billing system for us and then you know when we're done with it then the town said this is what we got left over you guys you know this is what >> Jean and and Jean particularly came into this with Dave's you know good hiring
thank god but she's become the forensic accountant >> yes >> not that wasn't part of the job description >> exactly >> but you and it's not easy it's not easy it's like watching a it's one of these spy movie things on the you know who did who did it you know that you don't know.
>> Could we do we need to put in a motion to have you look into it for us or >> I I'd say it's no exploratory. So I'll bring it back to the next. >> Thank you. I'm involved with that. >> Sounds good to me. >> Okay. Anything else anybody want to talk
about? >> I'm just going to go to Is still here? >> Okay. I was going to see if he wanted have any questions. >> No. Okay. Um per se
I'll make a motion to journ. All in favor? >> I I thank you.