going to call a meeting to order at 5:02 on the 15th. Okay. So, there was some bills to pass around. I hope everybody got to see them. If you didn't, here they are. Um, you
don't necessarily need to start them, but Okay. Yeah. Okay. So in review of the minutes or September the September 8th ones. Yes. At the 547 motion there seems to be redundancy of the tail end of that
sentence. It says in this meeting twice. Can we just delete the second in this meeting? Yeah. Okay. You are entitled to a mistake. you know, is so rare that I'm able to. I know.
I won't pick it up. Okay, ladies. Any other things on the minutes that you'd like to comment on to accept them? Second. Somebody's got motion. Are you going to make a motion to accept
a motion to accept the minutes as amended? Okay. That correction? Okay. Yep. For August 26th. From August 26th. August and September 8th. Both. August, right? I'm sorry. No, it's August 18th. August 18th. I'm sorry.
Okay. From August 18th and September 8th. Thank you. Okay. Hi. Okay. Thank you, Ken. Good evening. How are you? Good. Thanks for coming.
Yeah. Little paperwork confusion. Can you just you can join us? Sure. Absolutely. Yeah. Just a little paperwork. Okay. Uh so I'm Cameli. Um I do the 111 Wing Road. I am uh the manager of the Hilltop Pub in Kingston. Um we have a
private um private facility at the Social Club in in the center of town by the ball fields. We have for uh years had you know just regular facilities that every
other social club and facility has um uh around. Anyway, we received a violation earlier in this year um for some cleaning violations in our
kitchen and we were given a a form that said we had 90 days to correct the violation and less than 90 days after that violation,
we were visited again and we hadn't made the corrections and then we got a fine or we got fined $75 for not correcting them. And
it just seemed silly for me to get fined for something that we were given time to do and we weren't warned. If if the inspector, and I know she's not employee of the town, she's employed by the town, but she's not employed of the town. Um, if the inspector had said,
"I will be back at this time at this date to reinspect. Please have these things fixed." Absolutely would have been fixed. but she didn't. And so less than in less than the time that we were granted,
we were reinspected and binded. And I just don't think that's fair and I don't think the club owes the $75. Question. Go ahead. Has the violation been taken care of at this point? She has come back again and she gave us
a clean slate. The cor the violations were corrected. Heidi. So, I had a chance to research this, Ken. Um, I found the forms very confusing and I went over them with December could be some misunderstanding on the
forms. I do agree with Ken. When I looked at them, it looks like there was 90 days to correct it. Um, so I have to say I feel that the reinspection fee should not that the violation fee of 75
should not be charged to Hilltop. Um, and we have since with Joyce I talked to her about how to make it so that is very clear when reinspections will occur and how long people have to remedy things. Okay. stood.
It's almost like I will make a motion to um absolve the Hilltop Athletic Association from their unpaid reinspection fee. I'll second it. Any other discussion? All in favor?
I none. Thank you very much, Ken. Thank you for coming. All right. Thanks for hearing me. I appreciate your time. Okay, next up we've got a variance request. Yes.
Um I think this pointed out one of the an a way that we can do better by the town and Joyce is I'd love to know what Joyce has to say about how we've remedied this situation so that we don't have this happen to another group
or citizen within the town. I'm I'm fine with that. But just so you're aware, I took Ken because he was here physically present. Oh yeah. And I know we've got some other to go over. Okay. So my question is why don't we do the variance and then come back after we're done with these. Fair enough.
I like that idea. Bob Ego was up there on Zoom ready to present this variance request. I believe Bob, are you there? All right. There you go. Bob, are you gonna present this variance request to
the board tonight? Yes, I am. Yes, please. Okay, if you're on, buddy. Okay. Um, I I'll do it without sharing my screen unless we need to. Um, the the variance request, it's for an irrigation well at uh 227 Country Club Way, which
is an existing uh residential dwelling. Um due to the location of the septic system and uh topography on the site, the rear portion of the site where they where they could get 125 ft away from the um soil absorption system, excuse
me, that's on site is up a hill and and heavily wooded. So they would have to um cut down trees and change the grade to get a drill rig up there to actually install a well. Uh, so we're asking for a variance um from 125 feet down to 110
feet. And again, it's it's just for an irrigation well exclusively 100% irrigation. Well, we've granted these in the past irrigation really
short of ripping down trees. It just it like Bob said it's it's strictly for an irrigation well. It will be marked as an irrigation well. Pretty thorough. Yeah. Okay. That's top top repeat.
We make a motion to accept that is question number 26- 82. Um two does that say 20 227. to allow the well be constructed within
100 ft of the septic system for irrigation purposes only. I'm sorry. Was it 110? 110. I for irrigation purposes only. And it will be labeled as such. Correct. I'm sorry.
We have a we put in a bylaw about the non-potable non-potable water. They have to dispose. We've granted these before for residences. No, no. Just making sure remember when we went through the whole thing about making sure that people label their irrigation well.
So, especially our the people that may fill up their water bottles and such from it. Don't do it off of an irrigation only. Well, there's not going to be a facility like that at all, is there, Bob? This is going to be tied in directly to the
irrigation system. That's correct. Direct connection to irrigation. Yep. With no tied right in. Perfect. Thank you, sir. I'll second it. Thank you very much. I appreciate that. One second. Okay. All in favor? I
Okay, Bob. Thank you. Thank you. Thank you very much. The permit's all set. Your permit's all set. Thank you. Thanks. Thank you. Thanks for the quick response. Thank you. Yeah, no worries. Can I call
you guys send all that back to me? I get everything's done. Okay. So, it's my understanding that QuickM is not coming tonight. He's not here. Yep. That's what he said. Okay. And what about Suji's? That's off to the table. They paid the
fine. Okay. So, I would like to know how he would proceed with um the quick my violation. Well, the guy requested to come and speak to the board. He's not available tonight, which sounds like a pretty good reason, right? Well, we'll also be bringing it
forward for tobacco non-payment of tobacco fines so we can um extend this and put it all on in one night if we believe he said he has six more weeks of classes. So, I can certainly schedule it for after that.
Is this not on the night of the public hearing? I'm fine with Right. All right. So, we're looking at I'm supposed to have a couple of participants via Zoom on the on this next
link to Okay, maybe they'll show up in a short time. And of course, then we've got Fred Tarnberg Jr. from Country Club Way. Same old, same old. Yeah. Okay. He's in the pickup. Um I did he print out a copy of the correction order.
Fashure on a lot that he owns. He was sent a correction order requesting that he pick it up. He came into the office saying basically he's not going to pick it up and that he wanted a hearing. I said, "Okay." And that's why we're here. So, well,
there's a lot. There's nothing on the lot. He's the owner of the lot. I would like to know how you would like to proceed. Well, this is the hearing, right? Pretty clear to me. I mean,
I guess my question is what would you do you find him per day? What what is it that you want to happen with us? because obviously he's not here to say anything. What do I want to happen? I want him to
get rid of it. We all want him to clean up. What do you want to do? The ability to have remove it and then send him the bill. No, we do not have that. We don't private profit.
So what remedy what remedy do we have? We can find people. We can send them certifying letters. We can He was served in his by a constable because he refused to pick up a certified letter. So we sent the constable out.
So he was served at his last known address which is physically what is listed as his address. Um Listen, they're predicament. No. And I mean, I have neighbors complaining because they live next to
this property that has garbage on it, right? I mean, what would the fine be at this stage of the game? I I have no idea what you guys I could tell you what somebody should be buying.
So, that would be up to the board. Right. But as far as we know, he has said he's not going to remove it. He was in the office and said he is not going to pick it up and he doesn't think he should have to. It's not his trash. Um, so so he's claiming somebody just
arbitrarily came by, threw their couch on his land, and that's that apparently. Okay. He did not say that. He just said it's not his and he's not It's not his fall out of the sky. So, is this on the back side of the
You go to the road the road that's right in front of the um clubhouse, take a left, start to go around. You go through the first bunch of houses and then it's in that section where they there's a couple of um houses that are already built. Yeah. And then there's some more construction
after his lot is before it's between the first set of houses and the second set of homes. Okay. So this is in clear view side of the it's not on the back road where there's no development. So I have not walked on property. We the only reason we saw it is because
we were there um myself the building department um town administrator were there for a unrelated issue for the golf course and what were by the property the town administrator saw it and said you know
we need to take care of this and that is my purview. So that's why the correction auto was sent. What what would the poll like to do? Well, so the only option open to us is fine. Is that correct? Is that the only option?
Well, I have an idea. Yes. What if we gave him seven days to have the trash removed and the couch removed, right? And then levy a fine after that. So he's got a week. What about giving them a
week to take care of it and saying then you'll be fined either per day, per week that the trash remains? Does is that this was in June? This was in June, right? Yeah. So, what happens is the correction order
gets sent out by certified mail. I have to wait to do anything until I get that notice back saying that the person has been served in hand. And unfortunately, it takes a long time and it takes a while for us to get something either saying
that they picked it up or it gets returned to the to us to say um it wasn't picked up. Right. And then so at this point it's costing us money because we have Yes. Now I paid for $10 worth of certified meal. I've paid $50
$50 for a constable to serve the notice. That's going to cost you $50 to serve this. Of course, now you know I'm up to So then I would make a motion that uh the board of health at the this meeting
this evening has ordered that he has 10 days to comply with the order to remove the trash from his property at that address, whatever it may be.
and that if he fails to do so at the end of that time period, uh, we will levy a fine of $150 which will acrue weekly until such time as he produces proof that it's gone.
What do you think of that? I like it. Yeah, it alternative we have Carol's going to second it. So, all in favor? Hi. Hi. Hi. Okay. So, we'll put that behind us. Okay, Joyce. Yep.
See what happens with that. All right. Then, what else we got here? Is this the one that I started to scribble out? Number four. Dennis, how are you? I completely forgot about that. That's all right, Dennis. We're here. What's number four? I can't read it anymore.
Public services. Yeah, that's the one we're waiting for somebody. Am I correct? Yes. They said they would zoom in, but was there any other Did they have anything else to say? Blah blah. No defense. What's the story? What is it about, Joyce? Oh, just they refuse to they just
continually not send in their quarterly reports. So, this should be their fourth. It's their fourth offense. And when you guys did the trash haulers um regulations, my understanding is at this point it's a revocation of the permit to
operate from the town. So, I put them in. Yeah. At the end. How long has it been going on? Oh, like they're they're usually a repeat. So, this is them every year. Like after I send them the fine letter,
then they'll send me the report. But the stance, but this time according to the regulations, it says like you when will these reports get three of them? They're due one month after the quarter ends. They get 30 days to
so basically they'll be like April 30th. So the quarters end, you know, it's January, March, June. Oh, yeah. They're behind two quarters. Is that what you're telling me? No, they're up to date now. Never get now. They are up to date.
Oh, so after that they the violation note. So every month at the end of the quarter, each person that is a rubbish hauler is supposed per DP and our trash regulations is supposed to turn in
quarterly reports. We have to give them to Sean over in highway because they get a grant through DP. So we have to show that we're following the regulations. I know I'm on the recycling committee. Okay.
How about this? What about this? What if we authorize the I have a motion to authorize the health agent that uh to send a letter to this outfit that uh no further um
um lacking of filing of the reports on a timely in a timely manner will be tolerated and that um if they can't comply with that that the the health agent will be authorized to take um any extra action necessary.
that you want me to do because I want you regulations that I want you to if they don't if they don't comply with the regulations then I want you to send them a notice that you're going to suspend suspended you have the authorization to send them a notice
going to suspend it may make a suggestion yes but now they're current so I'm saying going forward may I make a suggestion my motion was going forward sure Dennis I would make a motion we got No, I would amend your motion. Amend your motion to
uh suspend their license to terminate their license and that the that termination is suspended barring any additional violations. The license is suspended as as per our regulation and but the board has granted
them the mercy of suspending the sus of suspending the suspension. They're still technically suspended. That suspension will be uh you follow what I'm saying kind of but I think it's okay. The
license has been terminated but the termination's been suspended that the uh they're now in compliance. If they fail to be in compliance again in a timely manner in a timely manner that's the suspension will go into effect immediately. No, they
wait for us to email them and they fine before they send it in. Oh, no. No. If they if they do that again, our our the motion made by the chair to suspend their to terminate their privilege to uh operate in the town will immediately be applied
and we don't have to talk about it be anymore because it's automatic. You the authority to do it. Yeah. It puts it puts on a hair trigger. Yeah. But hold on. Hang on because what you're saying time out for one second because we have a motion and and
we amendment to your motion amendment to the motion. So we need clarity on what the motion is. Okay. So go ahead ask a question. If I'm understanding it, you guys are making the motion to terminate the license. Okay. the the amendment is to terminate
the license and to suspend that termination um so long as they remain in um family compliance. There we've taken the action. We've terminated the license. That termination is suspended. It's like a suspended sentence. You don't get in trouble
again, it goes away. Get in trouble again, it goes to effect. So that means you need to have a time limit on it. How long do they need to be in compliance before the I gave that to you and the motion? the original motion. I gave that to you.
I'd say I'd say a minimum of a year. So they can have no further violations, meaning no more reports, no more needing to email them. Otherwise, it's an automatic loss of right to operate in the town. Correct.
By hitting this correctly. Yes. Yes. Okay. You guys have you got that? I think so. It's a little confusing. Um, okay. Okay. The the motion the the motion is
to terminate their uh license and that that termination is suspended providing they do not uh go out of compliance with regulations. So we acknowledge that
we have terminated their permit. Okay. That termination is suspended. Yeah. For one year, providing they do not violate our ordinance one more time. Okay.
Okay. I'll get that. Thank you. And that the health agent has the authority to implement any action there, too. That was part of the original motion. Yeah. Is that acceptable to you, Mr. Chair? It
is sir. Yes, that's fine. What do you think, Heidi? You think that? I can tell. I'm thinking that we have now served them. How many? This is their third, fourth, fifth, how many times? Four. Four times they have come in late at
their shop and been told, "Hey, you got to get it in on time." They know the rules. They have broken the rules. They are failing to show up for their hearing. I see no need to allow them to operate
in the town any further. They they have complete disregard for us. I have a question. So they have 30 days to pay that from the receipt of their or they have to just do the quarterly, right? They have
to send us the quarterly 30 days at the end of the quarter. They have 30 days if their date ends March 31st. They then have until April 30th to make sure that they send that report in. Right. So it's not like we're sitting around waiting till April 30th. We don't
necessarily send it right on April 30th, but we after that deadline, we'll send an email saying we have not received your quarterly report. Then we get them after the fact. And how many days from that 30-day?
It varies depending on how busy the department is, how quickly we get those emails. So the point is is we shouldn't have they've had 30 plus days to regulations comply. I get I just wanted but they have they have paid all their fines. That correct? No.
No, I thought they did. I thought they have paid all their fines. Fines. They have. Yeah, because there's a fine every time in quarterly after we have to email you. You get a fine. You guys did it. It was
in your regulations. April 15th, 2017. There must be money in trash. There is money in trash. Lots of it. It isn't. Well, we have a motion. We don't have a
second on that motion. So, but I think you were being heard, were you? No, nobody seconded it. I did not second. I don't know. I said I thought you was still um No, she's u put something a little more
drastic according to So if you look at number nine under the under our threshers regulation here and you've got first violation, second violation, third violation. Any subsequent violation shall be determined
by the board of health at at a show cause hearing at which time additional fines may be imposed or the license to operate may be suspended or revoked. Have we warned them at this point that that would that could happen?
We sent everybody the trash regulation. But yes. Okay. So if they have been warned that this privileges can get revoked, right? Here's my thing. How how concerned are they that they failed to
show up for a hearing? We've had communication with them. We sent them a Zoom link. And did you find them every day after the 30 days? No, we I believe we just sent them more than happy to start doing it.
Would be a good suggestion. $100 every day after. Whatever that says is what we we sent. I don't $800 my hand. Um Joe, what was that? She wants to know how much they the fines were. The last one I believe was 500.
The third would be 500. Excuse me. No. Okay. First is 100, second is 200, third is 500, and then after that filling out a hell. This is what they have to do when they're willing to get fine $500.
They're out of their minds. They can some of you find them every day after the 30 days. That is what we have in our regulation. Offensive. Any subsequent violation shall be
determined by the board of health. Okay. Show cause hearing at which time additional fines may be a vote. Yeah. or license to operate will be suspended over those.
So that gave you the authority to fine, right? But we've had this is the hearing so we wouldn't do it until after the hearing. Rosemary, what are your thoughts? Right. Yeah. So I think sort of the thing proposes like that one more
chance. I mean this this particular case is new to me. Um and um you know I just I just need to be sure and probably have sent them this communication that um that after this fourth violation they lose their life to operate. They lose
their business in the town, right? Which is pretty drastic step. However, if they've been warned about that and we know they understand that we do have that option. However, Dennis's motion that he made to revoke the license and suspend the re revocation
should really get their attention and then either if they don't do it, they're automatic. Yeah. So, it's just another month of them operating in town really, but it does give them that one more month. It's, you know, and I understand the first, you know, the and that the
language um is to let them know that this is basic this is this is not a negotiation. This is we have we have voted to revoke your license. The board has suspended that revocation um pending your compliance.
Failure to comply, the revocation goes immediately into effect. No, if no additional hearings necessary and really we have the end of uh September 30th is the end of a quarter. Mhm. So if they don't have it into us by
October 30th, they will not. Right. Is that acceptable to you? It's nicer than I want to be, Dennis. But I will second it.
So we're good. Yes. Okay. You got it, Lori? I think so. I'll have to relisten. All right. All in favor? I I Okay, moving on. Health agents report.
Joyce, um we have a clinic for us blue clinics tomorrow. We had a pretty good sign up for that. Um septic is pretty steady. Nothing
um monumental is steady but not crazy. And I just did another perk today. I have one more that later this week. So I think we're averaging, you know, one one or two um a week.
Some pick up in building, but not I wouldn't say it's huge, just steady. Um and no other real major issues. the housing issue that was on Main Street uh is
rectified to a position where we don't need to be involved in the housing side of things, but the um gentleman that owns a house uh who's a veteran is not doing well. So, we've been I've been following up with him to make sure he
has what he needs at this time. Um just a kind of unfortunate situation. There's not a lot of help. So, between Sarah and I, uh, that's the person we got the dumpster for. So, um, unfortunately, I'm not sure that
this will I don't know how much longer, um, it will be going on. Mhm. Okay. Questions? Okay. Discussions. Tobacco retail permit
limits limiting the number of tobacco licenses that we give out in the town. My understanding is you guys are capped at 18. Well, right now you're capped at
18, right? Um, and so if we were, and I'm asking because we have people that will call and ask, are there any licenses available? And do we does the health department, the board of
health feel that they want to keep it at 18 or are we looking to um, say somebody closes and that tobacco license becomes available? Are we putting that keeping that or are we diminishing the number of
um licenses that we have as stores become defunct or businesses become defunct? I like it the way it is. And like I say, if somebody either loses their license or sells their facility or sells their business and I'm going to buy it,
I'm going to want to know that I'll be able to have all the business that they were doing and not have Yeah. No, I'm not talking about that because we actually had that happen already. Um, and that was just a transfer that person got it. But I'm talking more business goes out
of business and there is no buyer. Similar situation. still the location had it before and if I were going to buy that location, revise that business, I would still want to be able to have you thinking it too that um have multiple violations.
Yeah. And that um more than I don't know that it will continue. What are you So what are you saying? You're saying possibly if an establishment shuts the doors, right, and there's no buyer. It's not
transfer the business teachers operation. Yeah. It's not it's not being sold as a entity that they had a business similar to what happened up at Anony's and then they came in and didn't had no interest in it. So they let it go.
It was just a topic of conversation at one of the grant meetings. So I'm bringing it forward to just put it out there that do is this thing we have no interest in. We leave it at 18 and call it a day. That's fine. and don't care or that's my thought.
Yeah. I I don't think we should increase the number of licenses. That's we don't want to promote uh additional but maybe maintain what we have now is inadequate to the town of Kingston and it's doesn't matter any more than that. Any other thoughts on that?
Sounds good. Now the current tobacco regulations we addressed what Joyce was asking us. No, it didn't. that you either want it or you don't. Okay? Like if the business went out and you didn't want to resell, you know, re
all that license that went out of business, we reduce it. If not, then it just goes up for grabs. And 18 doesn't seem hopefully at the same location. But yeah, that's not a lot. For a town of 15,000 people, you think
18 establishments that sell tobacco products is not a lot. I believe Plymouth has 28 or 30 and they are marketkedly larger in area and size. Do you know how many ducks have a
lot of that size? It's not lots of space though. Oh, I think I do. I think they've got plenty. I don't want No, I think we have too many. So then how we gonna pick who we're going to take it away from? I have a
question. When people close, that's the only way you'd be able to. Oh, yeah. If the establishment closes and if someone buys it, do they have to come here to apply for that permit?
Well, typically what what I'm referring to is if a business goes out of business, closes down, there is no buyer that nothing. Yeah. that that is separate from like Joe said um if you if I own a
store and I'm selling it to Dennis and he's buying the store under the impression that everything I have currently comes with the store I agree that's kind of not that's a transfer yeah that's not really the talking more about if a business
goes out of business do we want to keep that permit in play or do we want to lose it. I mean, it's not like it happens every day and go down to 17 minutes and then that would be down. Correct. Go ahead, Dennis.
Right. Yeah, we could we could set the permit limit at 10 and grandfather in all and grandfather in all the existing permits. In other words, allows them to continue. But if the business ceases operation,
the permit is not transferred. It just it just evaporates. Yeah. You know, so we're we're saying our policy is 10. We'll grandfather in anything in excess of that and if they go out of business, the license just goes away.
Like Jay said, doesn't happen that often anyway. Yeah. And then you get into to find going out of business. Yeah. I think we're going to get really Yeah. I think it just should go. It's not broke. They'll fix it.
Thank you. Closest and clos. Okay, moving on. What is this about the regulations? What about the regulations? Tobacco that um what's the question?
Oh, there was an issue. Well, let's fix it. Yeah, show me in my folder. 8,000 pieces right here. So C and D under violation highlighted it. Yeah, it's just one
page. Is it supposed to be two-sided? Is mine only one-sided? No, it was one side. I only highlighted the wording that is special. I don't know what. So if you look if you read these in the
case of three or more and then it says in the case of four violations. So it's a little more. It should just say three violation. Okay. Yeah. Okay. If that makes sense. Do you see how it's kind of unclear?
[Music] Oh, I see what you mean because the fourth one is Yeah. If you go three or four, right? More than three is four. So, yeah, we need to eliminate four. Yeah, I agree. And I think we need to add in the 36.
Oh, there it is. So instead of eliminating D, we would just eliminate the wording from C or in case and keep D more violations. Huh? Yeah. So on the C just take out right more violations
and keep the intact. You want to just do that or would you like a motion for that? I think we're going to take out four more notations. So it's the Heidi. I will make a motion to have the verbiage of or more
section S violations 1 C remove the verbiage or more violations. Anybody second that for me? I second. Okay. Any discussion?
All in favor? I Okay, Larry, you all set on that? Thank you. Yeah, that's more of a that's that's more of a error because it just it's a verbiage error, but it doesn't change it doesn't change the language out of the
regulation. Everybody's satisfied with one more. So, we we did you'll see in your packet this but you'll notice that I have to act
in red. There's comments from the I do that. Oh, okay. I'm going to pass it along. The town council um wrote a little thing that we can do
graduated find. So, just read the block. The red. Go ahead. Yeah, I don't have my glasses. Oh, I'm sorry. Go ahead. Do your best. I don't Okay. Okay. Okay. Larry. Okay.
Heidi's going to read it. That's okay. So, what they would like us to strike is D violations under section two. The violator shall receive. They would like to strike that and have violations. Oh,
I think that's probably easier. Um, no, because it doesn't tell me what they want to strike. Okay, sorry. That's okay. Um, violations of these regulations are punishable by a fine of $1,000 for each violation. Violations of these
regulations may also result in the revocation of any other permits, licenses, or permissions issued by the board. And they would also like to strike What are they saying?
Hold on. So, they want to strike everything we just said. The A, B, and C of the in the case of the first violation 1,00 B. In the case of the second violation, 2,000. I think it's the amount of money if you
read that. I've got a little comment note here from SNAPS fines are $1,000. You can graduate up to that amount but not exceed it. Okay. So I thought that question. Yeah, we talked about that. We weren't
sure. Okay. So it could be that's three and a thousand. I know it's ridiculous. That makes sense to me. So I could not find it find any authority for a greater fee schedule as with the tobacco control act fee scheme.
That's why I'm bringing it here because we get guidance from one place that says one thing and that's town council. Well, any intent is still the same. No, because that takes out
any teeth that takes that takes our big guns away, right? And if our tobacco violations are the same as the great ones that we have developed, I would like to leave them as is. I will I I'm sorry.
We follow the tobacco. We follow the tobacco any sense tobacco under the tobacco control commission where theratom is not it's not it's not under something. So I think that that's what he's saying is
that we because it's not part of tobacco control. That makes sense. We we can still find but we can't do it per day or per week. So there are other options. That makes sense.
I mean we can still have them. Doesn't sound like we have a choice there, Heidi. No, I don't like it though. Doesn't sound like we have much of a choice. So So to be clear though, what we're looking at is violation to the ADHD is completely out of choice.
And the substitution for that is what $1,000 fine. Okay. So violations is a thousand or Yes. And potential provocation of other permits. That's the big one. Yeah. That's that's one country has financial
heat that you're selling this stuff and you also have a tobacco license for example which is So is legal counsel saying that we can't we can't revoke your tobacco license? No, they're saying we can't exceed $1,000. So, we just need to change the amount.
So, we have we have we have auxiliary teeth in there. If you if you have a food service, if convenience store, you have a food service permit, you have a tobacco permit, you have an alcohol permit, you lose all, you know, the alcohol doesn't come to us, I don't think, does it?
No. The reason the reason I asked that question is I notice in other towns word in here they said um this does not include a tobacco device these days. No neither does this has nothing to do with it. We're just using that as an analogy of how we base
the fine before. That's all we're doing in addition. No. Okay. But the language says but the language would say that if somebody did violate they would be subjected not only to the fine but possible revocation of other licenses and our permits which we
had to them that's pretty town council comment on that I can go back and get clarification to say as long as we keep the fine the maximum fine under $1,000 we can
still include revocation and other permits and I will clarify that. Okay. But I felt like it was important to bring it back up because we're having a public hearing on it. Right. I need to get this straight. No. You will. Yeah. I think that that's I think that's
a good move because actually uh with if we did it if we maintain the potential to revoke other licenses issued by this board that has substantially more monetary value than the fine schedule we're talking about if you're talking about an
incentive to comply okay so on that happy note Joyce, you'll get the clarification. The other part of that, I'm going to email everyone. When I get that clarification, if everybody could respond as soon as
possible so we can get it typed up so we can send you the final draft because we have to put the notice in the paper this week in order to for next week's paper in order to meet the 14 days um that it needs to be posted.
Fair enough. When we reply to Joyce, please reply only to Joyce, not to the group of us. So we are not open meeting violation. No, no, no. Make sure you respond to Heidi as well. No, I don't want it repl
what we got to do before we discuss the food stuff. The inspection stuff. and I talked about Yes. Right. I did want to thank you and we clarity. Well, a couple of things
and tidy again. Sorry. No, no. So, we're going back to the hilltop discussion. Okay. Okay. So, when I looked at the violation because I went into the office and I asked Joyce to let me see it. She pulled it up for me very kindly.
Um, the way it reads is not super clear. And I agree, Joyce and I agreed on this. So, did you find a spot to Oh, I'm going to fix everybody's problems. So here's
no because the this was a little disingenuous because right here on the respect inspection report it actually says okay for a meeting nothing that's good you don't have to reiterate all that
no I do haveate all of it that's weird that's never happened no but it popped right up you paying attention here I have she had my full undivided attention thank you I want to be clear that it is on the on the sheet to what we are coming back. I
had I spoke with the inspector that one should have this is when he got the phone it's not the one follow I just saw the report and the followup date is how many days after this usually it's two weeks 14 days which is more than a core violation priority
foundation date be within 14 okay that's pretty clear so are we privy to what the what the violation was yes it's all public record okay and I brought all of them to the last year and a half, almost two years. I'm only concerned with this one.
Well, this does, guys, this does matter because it's repeat violations. You'll see they're in yellow. It's the same violations every time. And you have to understand that we try very hard to be as um
consistent, gentle as possible, meaning we don't go and get you the worst violation you can. We're hoping that you will correct it. So, I just want to see what the violation. Um, it's not cleaning.
It's nonfood contact surface clean. Like, so if you look here, see how it's dirty? See how it's dirty? Yep. So, does anybody in the room think Why does that have to be right at the moment? That daily
it should be. So you have the option during an inspection when we come in. You have the option to correct on site. Therefore it gets fixed right then and there. Correct. Um that is your choice. You do not have to do that. If you don't, you are given time.
So we myself and the inspector because I'm familiar with the food code pro as well. Wait a minute. Yeah. It's my restaurant. Here you come. Yep. You find this violation. Yep. Do you fill this form out right there in
my presence and give it to me? Yes. Do I sign for it? Yes. It's explained to me signatures. I'm just asking you a question. I know, Joe. But that's what I'm trying to tell you. It's not like people don't know what's going on. We have a conversation with you. We go over what
the violations are, what we found, what needs to be corrected. You have to sign for it. So then how could there be confusion as to how many days I have to do what I'm going to do in the underneath the violation it will say um so you have priority priority
foundation and co-op those three tiers have different requirements for how quickly you can victim so if we don't try and go with the most serious which is now how it will be done then we try to give most people the
benefit of the doubt because they if I if I have a restaurant, it's my business. I am going to clean. So, my equipment is clean because I'm serving food. So, their choice not to do that is their choice. But I'm letting you
know that there's nobody on the planet that thinks it should take 90 days, three months to clean up food spills in equipment that we are serving food out of. Yeah, you're right. So, that being said, going forward, I
have instructed number one, if I do the inspection of you go in, you find this violation, I'm the owner. I'm not there. Who are you giving it to? Whoever the person is charges and that's what's required by federal code is that
you are supposed to have a person in charge. Well, then that person will be turning it over to the owner. Let me finish. Who is supposed to be ser certified? So we can also get you for that which that is a consistent problem that they don't have somebody that
was that about from here on out we're going to be going with the maximum whatever what's that now because people are not fixing it I'm going to give you violations that indicate that it needs to be fixed immediately meaning you'll have 72 hours
if it's a priority you will have 10 days if it's a priority foundation is this in bold blueprint on this thing. So the problem is when Joyce and I were looking at it, if it's a core violation, it says on that form 90 days.
So what Joyce is saying instead of putting it as a core violation, she's going to do it as a priority violation if it so deems so that it has to be rectified in 10 days. Then why not just take the 90day thing right off? It's part of the date.
That's okay. the state decided to do is we are because of this um safe 2.0 thing that's coming down the pike. We're required to use a everybody wants they want us to use that um standardization. Yeah. So personally speaking I like the old pen and paper because it works great
and you can put 10 days to correct but that's not how we're doing it. So that's fine like I said. So you have to understand when we go in and we see things I can put contact non-cont. So if I want to be give you the benefit
of the doubt and because don't forget this is score related. So if I give you priority and priority foundation it means your scores lower. So if I give you a core it doesn't lower that score as much. So now based on what
is happening and people not following up and correcting things instead of it being on the more lenient side it will be to the letter of the law. It will be food contact service it will be 10 days and when you don't have it corrected it
will this is what's going to happen. We're not this is not meant to be punitive. You are talking about people's health and don't the the thing that always a private club is a little disingenuous because they hold events there which we're not talking but
wait a minute you guys had the hearing. That's right. We're done with that. That was what was said and that is a little disingenuous because public events people from the public come into that that facility. So this isn't just about a small group
of people that's eating there. So what do you want me to tell people when there's a EC coli outbreak or a Salmonella outbreak because they ate and they because something wasn't cleaned because then it becomes my problem. It looks bad for us because I didn't do
my job, right? There are a lot of um cool functions there as well. So to be clear, let's let's say it was one pounder that was soiled. This wasn't counted. in the counter. Things that hold food like warming
boxes, refrigerators where we store things. Okay. So, refrigerator is, you know, food waste on the bottom, right? Is it that same waste when you go back to look at it or is it a different um Well, we take pictures. So, sometimes
you can tell and sometimes you can't. But the fact that you consistently have issues in the same pieces of equipment that if it's crud and it's dried on, that's that's not like it just filled yesterday. It's not getting cleaned.
Who does these inspections? Myself or Kathy, who's the great inspector, who by the way I had as an inspector when I ran kitchens. She is thorough and she knows what she's doing and she's been in the business for a long time. Um, she does a good thorough
inspection and she's very fair. Who does the reinspection if there's been a violation? Either of us. Depends on, you know, staff and and what's going on in the office. I can't be both places at once. How many violations do have to occur
before they lose their license to operate? Well, I think that depends on what the violation is. If somebody is um you know not hanging the mop up, that's not that a core violation. It's that's a management thing. That's
teaching somebody how to do it the right way. It could be oversight. If somebody isn't sweeping under their stove adequately and their food debris, that's a problem, but it's considered a core violation. It's not considered something that is
maybe a health threat, right? But when you have things that are date marking, expired food, cleaning issues, where you store food, that is much more serious. Yeah. I mean, there there could be immediate health consequences,
right? But we try we try when we do inspections. Kathy as well, like I said, I have been on besides working with her prior to this, I've been on the receiving end of her inspections when I ran kitchens. Um
she much like me wants to educate people. We want to say well hey this is the right way to do things. You can buy you know we'll tell people yeah you can buy these disposable um labels. They rinse right off. They're really helpful. Um it's a circle. So if you have people
like not everybody has staff that um they could have some learning deficits. So having Monday, Tuesday, Wednesday, Thursday can be easier. um and then putting a date so that it makes it easier for people to do it. So we have solutions like that. We can provide um
posters for people to put up. So we're trying to educate. But when you have two years worth of the same violation, that's a problem. So we can't take the 90day thing off the floor which created this particular
confusion. We can't do it. Is there any other measures that we could put into place to alleviate that from ever happening again? Yes. The food code allows for any agent during an inspection to request or
insist that the inspection is that the violations are corrected faster than 90 days. So in addition to using priority and found priority foundations and priority corrections
versus core, we will be adding into the verbiage that all violations need to be corrected with and she will list out what has to or I will list out all food contact surfaces need to be cleaned with whatever they are. Yeah. Go ahead.
Something like your gaskets need to be replaced. I have no problem with 90 days because you can't always get the gaskets. Equipment repair, it's hot. Nobody's looking to um find somebody for fixing their equipment because they can't get a repairment in. But I'm
sorry, it's unreasonable to expect 90 days to clean up foods. Right. You still didn't answer my question. Is there anything else that can be done? You said we can put it in the notes. Put it in the notes. Yeah. At the end of the at the end of Put it in the notes. It says fine. Put it in the notes. an action
summary and that's that's probably a good way to put it a you know action summary what you got to do and when you got to get it done by and and do understand that we go over the report the person that is present that is the person in charge signs for
it they say they are acknowledging that they understand it that we've reviewed the report terrific okay so so are you saying instead of having that sentence is um a second visit is needed and giving a date instead of saying that.
No, it's still going to say that. Say that. Yeah, we just put more information at the bottom. Okay. Like when I do an inspection like I'll go um inspection completed, all required elements present, spoke kid, fluids, the whole nine yard. Or I'll say no
violations found. Uh the PIC was very knowledgeable. They need somebody does something good. I don't want to put it on the report because they are public record. Yes. Anything else? If there be no additional business, I make a motion to
next meeting. Sir, next meeting date and then we'll go back to Dennis. Public hearing public hearing. We usually have the meeting at 5 by
I guess we'll go back to our Monday first Monday in October. That's where the public hearing is. Yeah. At 5. No, but we're asking do you want us to do our meeting at 5 and then open it up public hearing at 5. Get clear on how we
were supposed to do it. Yes. Okay. Good. So, October one, six, six. Y it will be in the big for that meeting. Okay. All right.
Only because it's kind of hard for us to set us in here at 5. I thought over there reopen there. That way we don't have to believe
with me. local team reports in there to do our public hearing meeting. So, do you like We don't care. We'll do if you want your little I say we come in here at 5, right? 5:30. We just want to know what you want to do.
Put it all in one room. Put it all in one room because all one room. Yeah, we're doing that. Put all in one room. We open the meeting. We open the public hearing. Close the public hearing. recap with our board and
then close the meeting. That's the process of public hearing. Yes, that's exactly right. Okay. So, will that time we got that something had occurred that we weren't able to close out the public hearing and then I don't know reconvene. I just know that
well, for example, if if we let's say there's a huge crowd there, I doubt it, but let's say there's a huge crowd, you could always continue the public hearing. Oh, but once you close the public hearing, you cannot then reopen the public hearing without additional advertising because it's closed.
So, I'm just trying to understand we So, you want us to stop you guys are having your regular meeting at regular meeting at 5:00 open the public hearing at 5:30? Yes. Yes. You don't adjourn the legal meeting. You just go now. We're going into open the
public hearing portion of our meeting. Okay. All right. I know. I think what happened before was we closed our meeting and then we weren't able to reopen our meeting. It was a mess. Yeah. Okay. So, I just wanted to make sure we were clear on that. Okay. So, October 1st, everybody's on board. Yes.
Six. Okay. First Monday in October. Okay. First Monday. Tennis made a motion to adjourn. Second. All in favor?