The only one that's formally open is is the board of selectmen. Um all right. Uh announcements. So this meeting is being recorded by the local scene. Anyone intending to make an audio or video recording of this meeting should notify the chair. Oh, we need to do Yeah. Roll
call. Uh Eric here, Missy here, Pike here, Don. All right. And Kim will be here soon. Um so a few announcements. Uh this meeting is being recorded by the local scene. Anyone intending to make an audio or video recording of this meeting should
notify the chair at this time. Uh financial assistance applications are available on the town's website or by calling the selectman's office. For anyone interested, we keep bringing this up. For anyone interested in volunteering, there are several vacancies on various committees and boards. School committee and finance
committee are two big ones. Um, to see a complete list of the openings, please visit our web page at kingstonmma.gov. Also, check our website for any additional events or notices. So, the big appointment um is our joint meeting. It's not really a joint meeting at this
point, but um meeting with the Kingston School Committee and the finance committee. We're going to be going over um an initial budget expectation discussions. Uh we'll have a discussion regarding possible override um and the annual town meeting uh timeline. Um so,
as everybody knows, we're early in the process, but last year was tight. We were able to get our budgets done with about $3,000 remaining in the budget. Um so, we squeakaked through without needing an override last year. Um there's lots of uncertainties coming up
this year. Um depending on what happens, we could very easily need another override this this coming year. So that's something we're going to need to talk about. And if we do need an override this coming year, it might pass one year, but it's not going to pass multiple years in a row. So
we're going to have to look at a potential um strategy of putting in enough money that would last us a couple of years or more, which is what a lot of towns in this in the state have done. Lots of um municipalities have have tried to do overrides this past year and a lot failed. Some passed, but like
Ducksbury failed. Uh Norwell I think failed. Um there's quite a few. So and and to me Dubbury failing was was somewhat shocking. Um but anyways, uh we're really early on in in the budget process. We don't know. There's so many
things we don't know like with the schools. You guys don't know what the federal and state aid looks like for um uh for anything regional transportation, special ed. I mean, these things go up and down. It's kind of we're in flux. Um the town, you know, our revenues are
sort of up in the air depending on what happens, what doesn't happen. Um so, I'm going to hand this over to um Keith if you want to um Sure. You want to start us off? Sure. Is open tonight? I know the agenda doesn't say. Yeah. Not tonight because we have a lot
to do in a short period of time. Okay. I have to move. Thanks, Mr. Chair. Yep. Um and thanks everybody for coming tonight. Um so what we tried to do is put together a um
a five-year financial forecast based on a number of assumptions that I'll try to highlight real quick for everybody um as we work our way through. So, new growth, as I think everybody's aware, over the last couple years, has really slowed because of the water moratorium. We expect that to start to pick back up now
that the water moratorum has been lifted. Um, I I think everybody's heard of of some of the potential development that may be going on at Kingston Collection. Nothing's been nothing has been uh announced uh publicly, nor have they has
it has it been uh shared uh at least um on an official standpoint from the from the town. Uh but but we we when I say we town staff, the assessment department, the the finance department and I have made a number of assumptions based on
new growth um over the next five years. So, for example, fiscal 28 we're estimating new growth of about a million dollars. Um, some of that we expect to be through some uh some new residential development uh as well as uh some
additional commercial development up at the uh up at the mall. That new growth will stay at a million dollars for fiscal 29. Uh drops to 860,000 in in 2030, 500,000 in two uh 2031.
As we work our way, you know, out we're less sure, so we're less conser so we're more conservative, frankly. Um but we've taken taken into consideration some of the growth that we're aware of now. We're hopeful that there'll be some additional growth that comes forward. Uh
but right now based on what we know, we have um included that new growth. As far as state revenues go, state receipts go, we've estimated an increase on an annual basis of four and a half% based on past uh past revenues. So um
again, conservative estimate uh but but 4 and a.5% is above what we what we see across the board uh on an annual basis. Local receipts uh we're estimating at a 2.75% increase. the um the local
receipts. Uh also I think it's important to to let everybody know that it does not include any increases in any of the fees. Every um every couple of years or every year department heads look at the revenues receipts that are and fees that they charge for the different services
that their departments provide um to make sure that we are u competitive with with u communities in the area. Um, and if local fees can be adjusted, uh, we often do that as part of the budget process.
The the largest among the largest local fee revenues that are collected in Kingston, our ambulance fees and and Chief Douglas does a great job at working with uh, the the ambulance billing company to um, get a a good sense of where we should
be. And we are and I I and Mark can correct me if I'm wrong, but we are on the on the higher end of what we charge for for what communities charge for ambulance fees. Uh one of the things that Chief Douglas has mentioned is um the legislature in their infinite wisdom is starting to poke around a little bit
uh with uh the fe the charges for ambulance uh ambulance um trips and uh may want to try to regulate those uh and have fees uh charged across the state. uh at the same rates. We aren't sure
where that is at this point, but um but that's being discussed. Um smaller amounts transfers in and out of special revenue funds. Again, there's no there's not a lot of money that comes from those. There's there's not uh any increases proposed and they're frankly they're immaterial. As far as
expenditures go, what we what we uh are proposing through this spreadsheet we've provided is uh an increase of 2% for fiscal 27 and 28 for wages. Uh 3% for for fiscals 29, 30, and 31. Uh the town
um has six collective bucket agreements that that expire June 30 and 26. I believe the school has at least one that expires. Um, so those will have to be negotiated, but in this in this uh assumption, we're saying a 3% uh overall
uh wage adjustment. And then for operating expenses for the town, we're proposing overall uh a 1 and a half% for the 5 years. There are some um exceptions to that. retirement costs,
uh, health insurance costs, uh, in, uh, property liability costs, things of that nature are, um, are estimated at a higher rate than one and a half% again based on, um, past increases from year to year.
uh in talking to the school department, what they provided to us was a four a 2% increase for uh the local school department, a 4% increase for special ed, and vocational increase of 6%. So that's what we've done. That's what we've included in in this um forecast
for each of the five years. Um, so not to not to spoil the surprise, I guess, but I'll I'll start with um where everybody wants to end up just so people know what we're dealing with when we work our way through this presentation. So based on on the
assumptions that I've outlined, um there are some increases in in departmental budgets. One of the things that I had asked all the departments for was if you're if you see something um or if you're seeking something more than what's in the budget now, whether
it be additional staffing, additional programs, things of that nature, um please let me know. Tell me what, you know, what you expect for for costs associated with that and what fiscal years you're you're looking to bring those into the budget. um we've
incorporated those into uh this um forecast as well. Uh and and taking all of those things into consideration, uh in fiscal 27, if all of our assumptions were correct, all the revenues and appropriations came in
exactly where we thought we'd be, we would need a uh we would need a Proposition 2 and a half override of just under a million dollars. um that drops in fiscal 28 to to uh 209 I'm sorry 20 289 or 9 209 uh,000
and then for fiscals 30 30 31 and 30 30 sorry 29 30 and 31 um we are we are uh suggesting that there's going to be excess tax levy um that starts at
394,000 for fiscal 29 it will increase to 1.1 million in fiscal 31. So I think I know at the board of selectment level I'd like to think that they're they've been aware that we certainly expect fiscal 27 to be challenging for um you
know the the reasons we discussed earlier. Um you know the the the water moratorum was uh really challenging on on new growth. We saw very little new growth. Uh, you know, again, we were we're proposing a million dollars of new growth in fiscal 27. In fiscal 26, we
had new growth at 400,000. And I don't think and we usually conservative. Um, so when I say that, um, we think there'll be it'll be over a million dollars. Uh, we thought we were conservative with the 400,000 in fiscal 26. Um, I think 400,000 is going to be
we're not going to be much over 400,000 in fiscal 26. So, um, as as Eric mentioned, we started fiscal 26 when the budgets were approved of excess levy capacity of a mill, uh, I'm sorry, $1,775.
Um, so, uh, we we spent almost every penny we had. Um, fiscal 27 is going to be a challenge certainly. Um, and we're, you know, hopefully some of the assumptions we're making will come to reality and we'll be able to f we'll
be able to fine-tune these numbers as we work our way through the budgetary process. Uh for my, you know, my thought was trying to get together tonight as a group was to try to have everybody understand and hear one message, have all three
uh bodies that that have a play a live role in the budget process to be able to get together and have a conversation. And um I know this is a little bit of a sore subject, but I I I just I'd be I'd be remiss not to say it. is the I think
we if if there is going to be discussion about a an override what I what I think we learned as a board last year when we were possibly going to have an override was the earlier you can make that make people aware that's going to be out there the better off you are to educate
people. So having all of the different different departments submit a budget um as early as they can is going to be critical. I know it's challenging for the schools. I respect that. I'm not taking any anything away from that. Um, but if we if if if the FINCOM finalizes
a budget in April and they need an there's an override needed, I I I'd be concerned that they would be very successful and and so I'm just trying to be honest. There's I I I can put up on the screen if people would like me to. There's a budget bylaw uh that has a
timeline. Um it's it's something that was amended a couple of years ago to uh push the deadlines back from December into January and then um further back into the year as you work your way through the process. If the finance
committee, the board of selective and the school committee want to talk about modifying that budget timeline, you know that that that's a topic that that should be discussed. uh if nobody wants to modify the timeline respectfully the timeline should be met in my simple
simple mind. So I I just have a couple things to say on it and I'm going to say it. Wait, were you on speaker? I was. Um so I have a little bit bit of experience. So one of the things obviously I mean nobody knows more than
me the the challenge and you obviously you guys know the challenge you've had. I mean, getting these numbers from the state, you know, and and the state doesn't get their numbers on time. You know, the the governor's budget's supposed to be done. House one's supposed to be done. It's never done on time. So, it makes life difficult for
everybody. But, if it's possible for for you guys, I mean, we know um contracts, so we know where the whatever the percentage is on the contracts and assuming you're not, you know, laying anybody off, you might know about some retirements, that sort of thing. um and
then just come up with assumptions. So basically, you know, we're assuming, I'm making these numbers up, 65% um reimbursement on um uh special ed, 65% on regional transportation. And again, I'm making them up. I mean, you guys
have a better idea, but if even if we had like somewhat of a better idea of the number based on all of those assumptions, and I know some of the grants you you won't you won't know all of that either. Um but just as much information as possible with the
exclaimed um uh assumptions because one of the things I've heard I don't think from many of you guys here but is that if the numbers provided to the town early the town's going to hold you guys to it but you know we can't hold ourselves I mean our numbers were
changing pretty late in the season because things things happen and it's going to happen more with the schools than it does here in town hall I think so I think it would be fair to say if you could come up with your best estimate earlier on um with certain
assumptions on what the state aid is going to be and then when it's not we can adjust it and if other things change you know you have other kids um signing up for VOTE or or anything like that. Um I know a lot of the stuff changes later
on in the season. Um yeah go ahead Eric if I may. Um, I think one of our biggest challenges that the school department is going to face um, in this next year is the one-time funds, if you would. Um, the state aid that we received for the shelter funds is no longer for Kingston and for Silver
Lake, right? Um, it's around $800,000. Like, if we can estimate right now, we we're using END to um, complete our budget the last two years, right? we're looking at about a $5 million, you know, hole that we're
digging out of to start. So, just knowing that, um, and that's that's regionally, that's not just Kingston, and that's not just Silver Lake. But if we already know that, then I think in good faith, we can say I think we need to have the honest conversation
that in order to have a level service budget, we're going to be looking at Novaride this year. Otherwise, we're going to be looking at cuts and layoffs and things. And then even when you um speak about the contractual obligations, the two or the 3% or whatn not proposed, you know, I mean that that
very well could put us into another negative situation. So we're I think we can be honest that we're coming from a really difficult Yeah. position, but um I would be interested in making that amendment. I don't know if Keith was
asking that um it come from the school department or the board of segment or the finance committee to amend that bylaw, but it is something that it's um it's frustrating when we're saying we don't even have state numbers until January. We don't know END until February for the regional budget. We
don't know um circuit breaker until probably February or March to try to give honest numbers because they could change up until pretty much we're due for a town meeting warrant. So, so I think if you all Oh, go ahead.
On to that a little bit. Um, just to tail on to the last part, we don't even have our enrollment officially until October one, right? Um, but one thing I think it's important for everybody to note that the numbers provided um by Sarah for the forecast are not level service. All these numbers
involve cuts cumulatively. Okay. Starting with next year. Yeah. And so on and so forth. So, I think it's important. This is not a level service budget and we are also in contract negotiations this year with both teachers and support staff. Okay. Same with Silver Lake.
Mr. Chair, so you part if I could part of the and I appreciate that, right? So So part of the reason we wanted to have this get together and try to put together a financial forecast is is to as accur accurately as we could identify if there's a deficit there, what that deficit is. Mhm.
Um, so if you if if the school department knows that a 2% budget increase is not realistic or not um something that's reasonable and you're already starting to you you're starting
the year with a $5 million deficit. Respectfully, I think that's information should be in that forecast. So the um the these three boards can have conversations about what we're you know
how we deal with that. Um because as we sit here tonight, this this presentation is worthless because if if you're telling me I'm I'm $5 million off before I even flipped it to the next slide, why are we sitting here? Um, so it's um,
do we is that 5 million a solid number? Is that I don't believe that would include our for Kingston that wouldn't include um, Halifax and Plimpmpton and I believe that number that I just mentioned would include both of those towns as well, but for Kingston alone, I mean, we're looking at a loss of $800,000 in shelter
funds. Um, we're But were you guys able to um, uh, not lay it reduce some of the expenses that were associated I actually um not necessarily matter of fact I don't know how much you're aware
back in June we we had already approved the town meeting budget we had cut $460,000 most of which was absorbed through um retirements and then we had a special education um uh surplus slight surplus
like $100,000 that was able to prevent us from having to make cuts after the budget was already passed because the state opted did to take back $300,000 that they had already told us we were going to get and then they took back $100,000 that was these were supposed to be reimbursements. How do
you reimburse somebody for something that they've already spent then take it back and say that you're not getting it? So, as far as I'm concerned, we lost $400,000 that was promised to us for the district and whether or not those children were still enrolled through the end of the school year, I'm not certain of that. But um
right, we we lost we lost a lot of money just to start June. We thought we were possibly making cuts in the middle of the month and then it turned out we had nine retirements that we were able to um
make our budget work. So that that happened even after we passed the town budget. So I don't know. Um as far as the difference in amount, I would defer to Sarah who put the forecast together. Y about what that would look like.
Um I agree with the $800,000 for uh Kingston with the shel the lack of shelter funds. Last year Silverlake used $1.3 million of END in order to fully fund the budget. So I'm not sure where the rest of the
and in FY24 it was 1.2 million. So the 1.3 roughly 55% is Kingston. Do you allocated? Would that be 58%. Y 58. Yep. Okay. I'd like to make a general comment if I
could, Mr. Chair. Absolutely. I think it's important that we have some real numbers as early as possible. My fear, however, is that when we start throwing around numbers like a million
dollars, $5 million, okay, we have to try to balance the issue of getting towns people excited about something that may never happen. that we
need to somehow be realistic when we're coming up with numbers. At the same time, I agree with Keith 100%. I agree with our school committee members. We want to get real numbers sooner than later. But I don't
think that we should be making public statements where, you know, let's let's say if we start with this $5 million number, I know the police are looking for significant dollars this coming year. I I know that there'll be changes.
Okay. So, we could get to the point where we would be at a mill I'm going to take a number out there of $10 million. Do does anybody think that we're really going to go to the town of Kingston
looking for a $10 million override? I firmly believe that we'll go we'll very apt to have to go to the town for a 10 for a Proposition 2 and a half override. Okay. But I don't want to get everybody
excited at an unrealistic number. So that I I think we all need to do as much budget work as possible in a private mode where the the the school administration, the school um
principles, the the school um um committees come up with numbers that they say, "Okay, this is the best we can do, and this is what we're willing to go to the towns for Proposition 2 and a half override." I think that behooves us
all to try I I I I get nervous when we're doing tons of detail preliminary budget work in public that I just don't think that that works very well and it
gets people excited about oh my god we're going to have uh 50 teachers cut back when we probably all together realize that's not going to happen but we get the public excited about it. We we get to the point where we we as
school administrators as you know I've been involved heavily in town finances, school budgets for almost 12 years now and I I can tell you we can work together to get to realistic numbers where the school committee, the school
administration, the finance committee, the selectman, the town administration, we all have that kind a gut feel that understanding that yes, we're going to have to go for a two and a half override, but it's this order of
magnitude as opposed to this. Then we start getting the public excited, gets the public involved. And and I dare say in in coming up with those numbers, we all need to consider, you know, if we go
I think the schools can sell a $2 million override overnight. I don't think they can sell an $8 million override overnight. So I think it just behooves us all to try to bring some realism into the picture. And I came to
this meeting saying that I was going to be relatively quiet. Uh but I I just feel it's necessary that you know I want to support the schools. I want to support an override if that's what's absolutely needed. But I'm not going to
support the schools. I'm not going to support an override that's in danger of bankrupting the town. I'm not going to support budgets for the schools that will have my public safety departments making cutbacks. End of story. Thank you.
Eric, can I just respond to the um Mr. Pike, I wasn't trying to throw out a $5 million figure to um deceit anyone. You know, I certainly wasn't just throwing that out there, but I do think it's realistic that when we're looking at this budget process, which I am going to ask the SLE board to consider the warrant article to amend the timeline so
that it is practical to when the school gets realistic figures because otherwise, even if we look at our budget for the first time in December or January, we're not going to have realistic figures from the state to know what we're targeting, whether it's going to be a $2 million override or a half
million dollar override or anything. we're not going to have those accurate figures. So, I get that we're not trying to get anyone into an uproar, but realistically, when we first saw our first drafts of the budget in January last year, we were looking at massive cuts from both the regional budget as
well as the Kingston budget. And it was because through the one-time funds or the use of END that we were able to stabilize our budget. Unfortunately, that comes back and bites us in the butt the year later because those those revenue sources are not still there. So,
we get it. We're not trying to, I guess, um, get the public into an uproar, but I do agree with you that if it's a reasonable request for an override, we will probably have more, I don't want to say luck in passing it, but more success in passing it if the town's aware of
what we're asking for as opposed to waiting until March and saying, "Oh, by the way, we need an override." So, I agree with you. And I'd also say that one of the reasons that it's almost I don't want to say it's pointless for us to sit at the table is because we don't have the accurate figures at this point
and it it does get us into a you know this is what we're these are the conversations we're dealing with when we're in negotiations and we're you know trying to plan for next year is what what practically what are we actually looking at and and my whole point is trying to say that
I would hope that if the first pass of the budget from the school administration going to the school committee comes up at say a 20% increase. I would hope that there's work done upon that with the idea that we're not going to the town for an override at
the 20% level that we're going to get that to a point where pick a number maybe we'll go to the town for a 10% override increase but just trying to make the point that you know if we if we start off with a number that is no way
shape or form ever going to happen I think we make more problems for ourselves. And just a reminder, we always start off with a level service budget and then right, you know, so even even if we're seeing that, say it's 20% and I I hope to god it's not anywhere near that, but say
it's a high percentage, that's a level service budget. So everything after that conversation is talking about cuts and it's a matter of where they're coming from. And and I know this is very preliminary, but if it was a level service budget with a 20% increase, you would fight for that for the schools
at 20%. I I can't I can't say that I would. It's fine. So, I would hope to God it's not anywhere near that, but I just I'm trying to think practically, too. What would that mean in terms of cuts? Derek has his hands up, but but you were going to say something. Go ahead.
Yes. Um, I just wanted everybody to know that Superintendent Pru and I met last uh met in July to go over the budget timeline and we changed the budget timeline for this year because I knew that timeliness of the budget process was going to be crucial to everything
for all three towns. So, the budgets went out to the the budget entry documents went out to the principles in August and their budgets are due to me on October 1st. I I have been working with HR and getting the salary
projections in. So I will have uh superintendent Pru and I will have a preliminary budget in October that then we'll be able to look at and work with the administrative team on. However, you need to keep in mind that the the big
pieces of the budget, the special ed, the technology and curriculum, the meetings for that uh go to the joint school committee in November. And so my goal was to deliver a votable budget to the school committees in December.
Whereas in previous years, we brought a preliminary budget to the school committee and then spent three months working on the budget to get something for the towns. Excellent. I think that's a great step forward. Um Derek, you have your hands up. U go
ahead. Yeah. Yeah. Real quick question going back to the anticipated budget numbers that he provided and I apologize if I'm going out of turn, but I have a screening in um that I can get back to. Um the total solid Personnel services
total waste disposal from this year, next year, Sure. So the uh the information that we we've included in the solid waste budget is based on um the anticipation that there's a
development out there that's going to help us reduce our solid waste costs. And based on that reduction, we took those those reductions into consideration in the in the uh out years of the of the forecast. That's that's that's super help. I
looked at that and it was just a big I didn't want I wanted anomous So, thanks. Can I ask Yeah, Marcia, go ahead. I I've got a couple of general questions. Um, one is the um to follow
up on Carl's point about the override. I don't think it's just the amount. I think it's also why. I think the why part is probably the most important part of sort of selling anything. I mean, you
know, if you're a good salesman, you can sell ice to Eskimo. So, the why becomes huge in my judgment. And that goes back to my other question. I don't understand, and you don't have to explain it at this committee, uh, this
meeting, but I'm trying to understand why the loss of $800,000 in these shelter funds that the town received for fiscal year 26. And we're not going to get them for fiscal year 27. Is that
25? Oh, we got them 25 to 26. Okay. But so we got them we got 800,000 in two separate years or over two years. I'm trying to wrap my brain around. That was in fiscal 25, right? We actually received more than that, but
towards the FY25 budget was approximately 800,000. And do you know the amount towards the FY26? Zero. Zero. The students are gone. there the students the population is gone but we still do have some of the staffing that we
and so I understand and the taxpayers can understand is that you avoided having to seek an override attributable to the loss of that funding was kind of like a good news bad news situation
um because of these retirements and other savings that you were able to extract from the budget. Is that if if I'm not mistaken, we had a $110,000 surplus with our special
education out of district line item. Was it out of district? Um that that is budgeted. We budget for so many students and then they have until so vocational. We budgeted for and they have until April 1st, which is obviously after the town meeting warrant
is due to apply for those programs. Okay. So that was some of it. And then um the rest was absorbed through um retirement retirement. So you have right so ideally you hire at a lower step than what you're kind of starting out you're saying FY
26 seven seven I I hate the fiscal year but like nobody thinks like that but so we're starting out budgeting for FY27 bit really like with an $800,000
hole correct for Kingston for Kingston. I know I'm I'm directing my questions at you, not so much as the the lovely ladies. They actually serve on both, so they can Okay. I Yeah, we're we're both on. It just helps me understand to sort of
like to Carl's point, you know, selling it, whatever the number might be. I hope it's, you know, is, you know, I know there's some suggestion that we should go for a bigger number so we have a cushion. That's a different sales job than just focusing.
I don't know if I want to mix those messages this upcoming year uh for the but okay. Well, that really helps. Um and the only other question I have um I understand you're wanting to go on the special town meeting warrant for this
fall. Um, but will because to change the timeline. Do we need to or select board? Are you referring to the roof project? No, no. I'm asking to change the timeline. The budget timeline. The budgeting timeline. You would like
to push that out. Oh, I'm sorry. Okay. You wanted I thought you wanted to push the budgeting timeline out set forth in the town bylaws. I didn't hear you though. I would I would like to I would like to ask
Can you guys hear me? I can try to Oh, it looks like room 200 m. Well, it's what's funny is we can hear them, but they don't know we can hear them. So, they're gonna have conversation. Oh, good. Good.
Okay. Thanks, Liz. Okay. So Mr. Hickey when he had sent out the meeting in regards to this message or in regards to this meeting, he had sent out a message saying that we could always ask the border selectman to consider putting a warrant article on
the town meeting fall warrant um fall town meeting warrant to amend the bylaw. And if I'm not mistaken, so I've been on the committee now for almost nine years. Eric previously served on the Kingston School Committee and Silver Lake for 15 years. 16.
This this was sorry 16 years. This to all of us starting around 2021 2022 that that the town of Kingston had adopted a bylaw with the um budget timeline as it stands in the bylaws
today. But I've been making it clear in the last couple of school committees meetings that we've had um both in Kingston on Monday and Silver Lake this past Thursday. We're the only town in the district that we're a tri-town district that has a bylaw like this. So Halifax and Plimpmpton are not up
against these same budget timelines and we have one we have a shared administration. So, it's not really fair to ask our administration to work on two separate timelines and then the regional committee because that's also part of Halifax and King um Plimpmpton is not going to adhere to a timeline that only
Kingston is asking. So, so if if if for practical reasons to I don't want to say get the slight off our back, but to not continually be up against a timeline that's nonpractical to us, maybe that that needs to be the next practical step. I support a change in the bylaw
based upon just what I understand about how state the state aid I'm just using that as a big huge bucket of money that's typically late January right I mean it comes out so late it's and
your deadline is 115 and then there's a 215 deadline in the current bylaw but my my point is it and I do agree it should be extended. I think we have a little bit more runway with the Maytown meeting, but my only
concern is this. That was adopted at the special town meeting just two years ago, right? And Carl made a point before that the taxpayers maybe have a long memory and bringing stuff back. So again, that's
another sales job that we might want to consider, but I'm concerned that it may not save you for FY27 just in case it doesn't pass. Right. Understood. Understood. But thank you. You talking about the bylaw not passing. So the important thing to remember is if
they don't meet it, we're not having the police chief. Right. Unfortunately, we might have to disregard it again. But in order to respectful, nobody's been taken to jail yet. No. For violating the bylaw. We're moving forward. Yeah. And I was on the committee when
that bylaw went into place and I was against it, too. But Oh, how did you get in there? I'm sorry. I don't know. It was another day. I've been to every town meeting for the last several years. I have no idea how that slipped by. I'm sorry. I We could go down that rabbit hole, but it really is a rabbit hole. Not a clue.
Um, but you know what? I just want to give people one other big piece of information. So, so doing this and having these three committees meet is relatively new. What we used to do is we had a budget advisory committee and it was the chair of the Kingston school committee. I think it I think it was
chair of the finance committee, superintendent um uh someone from the board of selectment and they met and the town administrator and finance director and maybe the treasurer and you we would talk about overall goals and what where we thought the town was and okay are we
looking at a level service or level budget or what whatever. um you know and then we'd come up with this guideline everyone's going to hit 4%. Which and then those were the years that schools would hit 12 you know and then they're like well you didn't follow our guidance. I'm like we couldn't because
something happened. Special ed went up, regional transportation went down, whatever. Um so it's always been tough. So I think the way we're doing it now is good be especially this year because it's it's going to be so challenging. Um last year was challenging. This this
year could be worse. But there's other things cooking in the fire as well that that can change, you know, revenue and and um and whatnot. But we still have to it's almost like we're going to have to come up with with two versions of budgets. One that is whatever you you
all decide at, you know, a level budget, um whatever, but then also one that um you can use if an override fails. So, we're going to have to have two versions of those budgets. Um because our town
meeting is so um uh late in the year if we if we go to an override, then it has to go to the election. Um so, we're going to have to be ready for that and it's going to be a big sales job. I mean, I remember I mean, you were involved in this the last override, weren't you?
You were not. Okay. Um who the heck was it? Um yeah, and I I remember that was a huge effort. There were t-shirts. I think I still have our t-shirt, you know. Yes, for Kingston schools or whatnot. Um, we've had a few
overrides over the years. Um, some I I feel like the schools always passed. Public safety I think did as well, but like local government, we had one for 70 grand for the town hall and that one did not pass. Um, that was a year how much that override was in 2014.
I cannot remember,000 I think. I don't remember. No, I think it was 300. We talked about that before, but but but was that specific to schools or was there also police and fire on that school for our music? There was one year where we had the schools and police and fire and then the
town hall and we had them separated on the ballot. What's that? I think it was the previous one or at least the school's amount was and I've been around for 20 something years. Yeah. DLS has an override tracker that goes all the way back to the beginning of overrides in 1990 and you
can sort through by town by whether it passes. It's a it's an excellent spreadsheet of which I love. Yeah. And how much it was and for what what purpose tell you. It might not say something to track. Not not that I want to suggest anybody that had a failed override this year to try
again. But something that is interesting to track is like handover. They did not pass their override last year. They're doing such damage control this year. I mean they pretty much oblivated their school budget. So they did pass it second time around. Ducks, I believe they had a loss of 29 teachers. Yeah.
Um for FY25. So I don't know like what they might try for next year. Um but I know um I know we the Ducksberry one put in three different budgets. They did the level service, the prop, and then what would happen if we didn't, right? And I was going to say instead of
two, it would have to be three because we'd have to have the level service that I believe that that's the one that I'm saying. I hope that number isn't crazy. And then we'd have to have the realistic one that the town is asking about, right? And we'd have to have um the what if the override passes. And then Women Hansen also just had a
recently failed override for 1.7 million and their entire sports programs are about to be cut. So I think getting back to the to the special town meeting, the warrant when do we what what's the timeline on
So the the warrant closes the warrant closes next Wednesday. Yeah. And now if there was a need to reopen it, the board can certainly do that. Um, but right now the warrant closes Wednesday. So I guess if we're going to amend the bylaw, my question would be, what is a better timeline? So the timeline we had
before was never met. We could never get to it. It was way too early. Everybody said this doesn't work. We kept having trouble producing a I'm not saying everyone. I'm saying as a whole, we had trouble meeting the deadline. So, we pushed we changed the bylaw to push it forward and we moved town meeting forward and we
moved everything out of April into May. Um, but maybe that wasn't enough. So, it I don't know what the right you know I I would say let's ignore it for fall town meeting if the select board wants see what happens with this amended timeline that Sarah and Dr. P provided
and then see what happens next year um because you could always put it on a springtime meeting warrant right to amend for FY27. I agree that's the practical approach. Yep. One less article to read at town meeting. There you go. Okay.
All right. Uh Keith, anything else? And just to let everybody know, I think everybody does know, but Keith will be leaving us next week. Next Tuesday is the last day. You look super upset. No, no, no. Public comment. Sit down.
So, we appreciate No, they won't. We appreciate all the work you've done, Keith, working with the department heads on getting this put together. So, I thank you. Um, you know, we put a PowerPoint presentation together. I'm happy to get that to everybody. We've given you the forecast. Um I think
there's obviously some big big holes that in the forecast now that so I frankly don't know how much time we want to spend um you know going through information that is not as relevant as I'd hoped it would be. Um but just I
guess in general I think and I think me and Mr. like one of the board members mentioned there are some you know the the police department continues to try to get uh to a staffing level that is that needs a community of this size. Um,
and you'll see in in the documents that we gave you, if you had a chance to look at them, that there are some requests for uh additional officers and the supporting supporting um supplies, if that's the right term, that um that
these police officers would need. Um, so make you aware of that as well. Um, but I I just again I guess my last comment would be that I think it's important for all the for the three of you the three boards to understand what's happening and have that line of
communication be maybe a little bit better than it has been in the past about what the challenges are and and I think it's great that Sarah and and Jill have tried to come up with a an earlier timeline. And I think that will make a huge difference and very much appreciate that because it will make I think it
will help sell to to Marsha's point um people about why an override is needed and what what the benefit of that that's going to be. So with that I'll stop talking and um I'm happy to answer any questions and and uh
you know we can update this. This to me is a living document that we can update um whenever is needed and and these types of conversations I think will be great moving forward. All of these documents without public comment are going to be available on with with the supporting documentation
from the night meeting. Right. So if someone's asking for the documents, it's available. Well, so they are they are online now, but I'll get them online. Um, it may be is it may be it may be early next week because my left and right hand is on vacation and um I've been swinging
against the tide for a couple of weeks. So, um I apologize for that, but I I will get this information out there including the the PowerPoint presentation and and uh get it up on the on the website. We usually have a budget section. We'll start that early this year. We'll get it out there so people
can see what what's going on. And if again, I'm not trying to if it sounds like the school numbers could be updated to some degree based on the $800,000 deficit you talked about potentially uh because I I recognize
that was a onetime revenue that you just that the school department helped balance your budget last year and frankly that came down the road right um so to Carl's point I think it's going to be important for people to see what what the numbers are as accur
accurately as we possibly can be and right now they're frankly they're under estimated. So, but we can update that document as we get updated numbers. So, as the forecast changes, as we get more information, we can take down the old one and put up a new one and have an as of date so that
people can stay up to date with where we are. No question. As far as we know, no question. I also think as we go through the process, it'll it'll be important for the town's people to realize. I know that a couple of years ago um there was a lot of confusion surrounding money that had been returned to the town that
was not necessarily returned to the school department that was being used towards the school budget and our increases are based off not having that revenue source or including that revenue source. If we can just make sure that we're as apples to apples when we're comparing the numbers that um you know
our revenue sources that come in for the school what the revenue sources were where where they went or which part of the budget they're part of so that we can compare you know if we're looking at a 20% increase how much of that is our funds that went directly to the
town like to be able to pinpoint exactly where our revenue sources go and then our deficit well the funds I mean so and again I don't I'm not gonna try to get too too accounting like on you, but the funds, you know, the un any unexpended budget amount from all the town departments,
including the school department, closes into free cash. And we use free cash in Kingston um to a large degree to fund a lot of the capital things across town um including equipment like plowing the sidewalks at schools or across the town.
Sure. Um, and it was two or three years ago, and I recall, and I don't know specifically what the what the issue was, but I believe what we what the board of selectman agreed to do was use free cash as a onetime revenue to
help the school balance their budget. I'm not I don't I don't recall the specifics, but I I I think it's important, I guess, at least in my simple mind, it's it's we weren't using town money to balance the school budget. we were using that the school
the local school budget is a town department whose whose unexpended monies go into free cash and and that free cash as I mentioned can be used for a variety of sources. Um, but I
and it's easy to it's easy to second guess, man. It it's any any any accounting professor is going to tell you don't use a onetime revenue to balance a budget. And I know we've tried not to do that and I and again I'm not being critical of what the school department did. I get it. Right. Well, it happens every year because we
but at some point so I would think at some point just like this the this year potentially there's no more m there's no more silver bullet onetime revenue that I can pull from anymore. So um I think we've got to try to chew up that budget as best we can and and not
it's hard to use not use those onetime revenues to help get get things squared away because it doesn't impact things but sometimes come back to get you. I completely agree with you and one of the things I actually just asked Dr. clerifford the other night, this is our assistant um superintendent was about where we are at in terms of grants like
are we anticipating similar um revenues from grants this year because that also those are also considered one-time funds. Those are always used to balance our budget because that's just how this education department works. So c can I ask I know it's probably way too
early because I don't remember the timeline but what does silver lakes and D look like for next year? I mean, is it wiped out again? No, until February. Yeah. Okay. So, I want to preface my answer by saying that everything is give and take
in the business office and in order to push the budget up, something else has to be set aside so I can focus on the budget. So, um, and then I'm going to be losing my accountant for a long-term leave in a
in about a month. Yeah. So, but like I guess are the revenue still there? We are hoping to have E and D submitted before she goes out on leave. Okay. That's a very aggressive
uh wish on our part because we were submitting it in February. Right. Okay. Got it. Previously. Got it. Can I just go back to something? I think um Genie when you you and Carl were talking about the 20% this madeup number of 20%. I also want to make sure we're all talking about the same thing because
I think last year there there was definitely some confusion about that where that percentage increase number comes from. So when we're talking about percentage increase, are we talking about percentage increase on the budget? Are we talking about percentage increase on the taxpayer after the revenues come
in? So, I think it's really important that when we talk through the budget process that we're using the same terms and we're looking at it the same way or else we're we're really not looking at the same. We're not comparing apples to apples and that's not at all. So, that's my concern. That came that became clear to me last
year and I was like, okay, we're not looking at this the same way because we're not looking at the same thing. So, when we look at the budget, we're only looking at like how many people do we have, how much does that cost, what are the supplies, and the percent increase is 4%. Right. And then Keith and the town accountant
apply all finance director apply all of the the revenue sources and whatnot and then we figure out does that fit in under the levy limit. So when we're talking percent increase, we're talking about percent increase cost, not necessarily cost to taxes, right? So I think that was a that was a little
bit of a different way of looking at it. And I think I just want to make sure we are all on the same page that we look at it the same way so that we don't speak different languages. That makes sense. Does any of the board of selectmen have any questions?
No. No. Did you guys have anything else? Is Don still on? I guess. Yeah. Don, if you're on, if you have any questions, Nope. Just uh absorbing everything. Okay. My final comment would be I think
it's important to have these formal types of discussions, but I also think that there's times when informal discussions can help move the process along, can maybe answer a question. Maybe um somebody from the school
committee has a a general question that wants to ask, I don't know, chairman of the finance committee or somebody on a board of selectmen who might have a little bit of financial management experience. Um, I I know that there there were times when um I I would get a
call from the school administration and say, "Okay, Carl, I know we just sat through a meeting where you said that you'd like to see a three three and a half% bottom line increase. Now, what can the town really afford?" And you kind of have those informal discussions
and you know, you you get to a somewhat of an understanding. I know that when Charlie Celig used to run um Halifax and the Halifax financial people, there were a lot of those types of discussions that went on informally between the school
committees, the members of various organizations and and I think you can do a certain amount of this without being in any kind of um open meeting, violation law, etc. I I I just, you
know, would like to throw it out there a as a another resource to, you know, try to understand some numbers before people get overly excited about, you know, where we're headed. Thank you for offering your resources, Mr. Pike, because I'll take advantage of
that. I've had several of those conversations over the last several years. I think that that also helps me understand it from the finance perspective of where they're coming from, um, and also the board of selectments. So, I'm always open to having those conversations and I do think that they're very important, especially as we
get towards the selling piece of the budget um to make sure that we're all on the same page because as I've said in a million meetings, if we can't explain our budget, then we have no business asking for it. So, and it's just one member of the finance committee. I welcome those kinds of
informal. It just builds trust and confidence. It's like a it's a leap of faith for all of us trusting that the professionals that we hire are exercising their very best judgment. And
it's like somebody said to me, when you do a good job, nobody cares, but when you really screw up, everybody pays attention. And so I get how you feel like, oh my god, you know, I don't want
to screw this up. But I want to work in building relationships so that we can just know you're all doing your very best. And some days it just doesn't work out for you. Thank you. That would be great. Thank you. We will. Thanks.
All right. So Oh, go ahead. Mr. Chair, are you ready to take a motion for adjournment? Before we do that, um, he's ready. What is our next step? So, we really just have this one meeting. Should we be scheduling another meeting or is this really good news is it won't be on curriculum
night because they only do that once. So, I you know, I think um we need to get a better handle on some of the revenues um obviously on on your process as you guys are going through your budget process. Um so, I'm thinking we could probably
hold off for a couple of months. Well, the revenues I think are are are tougher because um you know, we just don't the town's the same way. We estimate our revenues and they may fluctuate more than the schools. I don't know that. But revenues are difficult. I'll agree 100%.
However, in fact, I'll I'll do it tomorrow this week. If we if we look at a number like the state aid to education from the say the governor's budget or maybe the next budget on to the final I
think you'll find that there's not significant differences yeartoyear yes you can have fairly significant differences but when you get the first couple of passes on the state budget from there until the end you know I I I
talked to Ducksbury the other day, Ducksberry tells their school people, hey, we need your estimates by such and such a date, and the school people are willing to say, hey, that's the number, and go with it. So, so I think sometimes I think we overreact to how much these
numbers really change. And I'll say the same thing for the town. Uh I I think that if you look at our major uh revenues like the uh state um state aid, look at the um ambulance fees and look
at the um excise taxes for your automobiles. There aren't we're talking for the town of Kingston, including education, we're talking approximately $60 million. Okay? get if I'm plus or minus 5% I'm only talking $3
million. We're not talking big dollars. Maybe that's too much from a a businessman who's used to working with budgets that if you're plus or minus 5% on a budget, you've done one hell of a good job. So I think just to maybe follow up, you know, if the school
department is going to get get some of their preliminary budgets from their principles and and schools earlier, I think the appropriation side is probably more important than the um than the revenue side really because um so the costs.
So you may you may start there, right? Jill, did you have something? So, just for clarification, because I this this comparison comes up quite often and comparing Silverlake Regional School District, which is a partially regionalized school district, not a fully regionalized school district, with the town of Dubberry that has a much
earlier town meeting, and their school committee is required to have a vote much earlier. They also have a population that leaves town early for vacation, which is why their budget is earlier. So if you go to all of the
other communities around the state of Massachusetts, the majority of these schools are not voting their budgets as early as Ducks. So again, I just want to point out that difference because I don't want to let the taxpayers think that somehow we're behind.
Good point. No, it's fair. Yep. Thank you. And also, Eric, I did ask um Dr. approved the other night. Um I thought it was really helpful last year in late January. We met kind of as a tri town but in a formal setting with all three school committees, finance committees and board selectman. I thought that that
was very um beneficial to kind of see the state of where everyone was at and um I've asked if we can maybe try to include that during this budget season so that we can all move on. All right. If there's nothing else, Carl, would you
like to make a motion? I move that the board of selectman meeting be adjourned at 25 minutes of seven. Second. All right. All those we'll do roll call. All those in favor? Eric. I. Tim. I. Missy I. I left. I'm sorry. I Oh, there he was.
Kyle Pike. I Oh, that's a little spooky. All right. Thank you everybody. Thank you so much for making time for this. It was super helpful. Thank you. Yeah. And thank you for all your hard work.