--------- Okay. So, I'd like to call the wage and personnel meeting for Monday, October 20th, 6 p.m. to order. Um, just a couple of announcements. This meeting is being recorded by Zoom. Anyone intending to make an audio video recording this meeting should notify the chair at this time. Items may be taken out of order at
the discretion of the chair. Uh Lorraine uh Bio is not in attendance this evening. Um it's Derek and myself. We do have a quorum. So we will um move forward. Um first item is uh Tina, human
resources director and Joyce the health agent to discuss the salary of the new public health nurse higher above step three of grade six at step seven 34.10 hourly rate. Um Tina I will let you make your opening. Sure. So, um, you know,
over the last two or three years, we've come to you a couple of times as we have filled this position. Again, this position, um, is a less than part-time position. Uh, it's not benefits eligible. When we did the compensation
study that took up to physical 24, this position um was put into a grade as opposed to just the hourly schedule. was put into the grade because it was expected that it would be brought up to a benefits eligible position. That hasn't happened. Um but as it stands
today, the position is still in a grade position. And so um we've come to you a few times over the years uh when we've set out to hire needing to hire above step three. Um uh and in this case, we're looking to hire at step seven. In the recent past,
we've come to you to hire at step 10. Um the uh Joyce will talk about the candidate uh keeping the name confidential and then um but in general just to recap uh compensation in general. So when we do a
compensation study um you know we put like positions in the same grade and the way that compensation is set is you take each of those positions compensation rate based on our um like
towns and then it gets um averaged in to make the 10 steps. So, it's not as if we're saying, you know, um we're not saying the the public health nurse is a grade six and that's the only position in that grade and this
is the salary range for that only that position. It's a accumulation of all the different positions that are in that grade. And that's perfectly valid to have a comp plan done that way. >> Sure. Um so we Joyce will talk about um the candidate and why
uh they are a um person that we want to hire at this higher than step three. Um, when I brought this up last meeting, there was questions about why the town isn't using the branch nurse um, instead of hiring our own and Joyce will talk about that as
>> the before we talk about the candidate um, I I want to talk a little bit because we have dealt with this a few times. >> Um, it's your time, our time, so forth. >> So, the question I have is what are we doing wrong that we have to keep coming back to this? I don't know if it's
necessarily that we're doing anything wrong. I think >> or is the market changed? >> So I I don't think people are leaving us necessarily to get money elsewhere. I think people are leaving us because the type of applicant that is taking this position is either,
you know, again, it's less than part-time. It's not benefits eligible. You know, you have a you have candidates that are either this is their second act after retirement. um or it's, you know, their personal life allows them to only have to work
this amount and then, you know, it's usually their personal life that dictates to say, you know what, um I can go back to full-time or I just want to be retired or, you know, I thought this type of gig is what I wanted, but I really miss patient contact. I think
it's any of those types of things. Your thoughts, Joyce? Well, as part of the grant, I I should let you know we have now been trying to hire two full-time nurses for over a year and um
we haven't found one yet. >> Okay. When you talk about the grant, yeah, >> are you talking about the the >> excellence grant that we the shared services that you guys are asking why I can't use that nurse? We don't >> the South Plymouth County Public Health
Excellence Collaborative Intermunication Public Health Excellence the Shared Surf Agreement that we signed in 2022. >> Yes. >> Okay. >> Couldn't get any more verbiage in there. >> Well, I have it all right here from the
Ducks Selectman minutes and I had questions about it. >> Yes. So, I want to read to you. So, we get handed something as numbers and so supplanting is what it's referred to. I am not allowed to supplant um any
staff person or budget item that I already have existing. I can't just use the grant and say, "Well, I'm not going to fill my nurse's position. I'll just use the grant." What I am allowed to do is if my nurse's position says that she will monitor Maven, which is required by
the state, and she's going to perform blood pressure clinics, then if I have a need for educational pieces or um a home visit that maybe isn't for whatever reason I
can't use mine, then I could use some of those aspects of that grant nurse to cover that. But as it stands, we can't find nurses. Um, part of this, unfortunately, is is the
salary range. Right now, I have people that are, you know, they'll come in, they'll talk to us, we tell them what the and it's posted. It's not like they don't know, but when I explain to them that this is the parameters that I'm allowed to operate in and this is what
it is, um, people just they're not interested. uh out of the two people I had two great candidates this time and the person that I chose um has wonderful experience. I don't want to say too much about their experience because it would
also I think um indicate where they work and it's okay you know local um but person has wonderful experience um a good history >> and the person is local and is really excited that this is a 15-hour a week
job because the other piece of nursing that this person does it works and so it wouldn't interfere with what I need because I said if this is priority like I told them it's going to be a flexible schedule went
through everything with both parties and the reason that I chose this person over the other person is the second person who was lovely and great qualities super experienced but they are also finishing up a master's degree in public health
nursing and I like I said to them I'm like that's wonderful and I'm happy for you but in 6 months this is not going to be the job for you because you are now >> above what this job requires and I can't
pay you that salary and so you would be better off. Um, and I actually pointed them to the grant because that would be a more appropriate because it's a full-time job and it would utilize her skill set and the pay is better. And so
that's, you know, this is the conundrum I'm in. No, I and and again I I'm not against >> Yeah. >> what we've talked about this before. I think Tina knows my position. I'm not against what we got to pay. Matter of fact, I have questions about >> what's on here.
>> Oh, >> that that I question >> I don't think the math's right. That start there. I don't think >> Oh, you mean the assessment? How the >> the amount that you're going to pay them did not How many hours do you You took
step six, which is like 70,000 and change. Step seven. How do How many hours a year do you divide that by? >> 1820. >> 35 time 52. >> Yeah. 1820. >> Okay. >> When I did that, it comes to um 38.97
based on the bylaw. So, so you're right and I misspoke. So, okay. So, we've talked before about >> Yeah. So well that's why before we get into the applicant I wanted the whole framework >> and actually this is a piece I have to also bring up for another reason but um
anyway so um when we did the compensation study >> right >> the dollar amounts were based on the surrounding towns giving us their comparables at 40 hours a week.
So our salaries for an salaried position, an exempt position, whether you're working 35 hours a week or 40 hours a week is you just get the salary. It's an annual salary. Right
now, KTU KTU the contracts there, they're all hourly positions. And now that everyone's on the same grade path, we have the 15 grades across the town to come up with the hourly rates for any of the positions that get paid hourly
because technically this RN is not salaried just given the nature of the hours, but also they're just they're not they're not working enough to become salaried. We take we take the annual salary and we divide it by the 2080
and then so if you look in the KTU column >> 40 40 times >> 20 >> 52 it's 21109. >> Uh it's always been for 28. >> Maybe I'm wrong. I did it today. So I was looking at it because I was trying to make the math work.
So >> 40 * 52 2080. I hear 21109. Oh. Um. Oh, I know how I did it. I took I took the I wasn't sure how you were doing it.
So I took the 70,932 step six step seven grade six >> and divided it by the 3410 and that meant that they would have to work 21109 hours. >> Gotcha. >> Um because I was trying to get to the math. >> Sure.
>> Okay. And the way when I did the math I came to 38.97 >> based on our typical 35 hours 800 and change. So I was trying to understand the discrepancy. >> So you raised a good point for another
topic that anyway. So, um, so when I when I have to figure out an hourly rate, >> y >> understanding that everything is really based off of a 40hour salaried week and in the KTEU contracts because there
are no salaried employees, all of their all of their grades are broken out into the 10 steps as hourly rates at a 40hour week. So if if my comparable if I were to be exempt
is $100,000, I don't know the math, but if it's $100,000, you divide that by 2080. >> That becomes my hourly rate, >> right? >> Okay. Now I'm in KTU. And in KTU, you could be working 35 hours a week or you could be working 40 hours a week. Labor
extended work 40. Um, clerical tends to work 35. There's a handful of clerical that work 40. So now you're supposed to take that hourly rate and if I'm a 35 hour employee, I multiply it by 35 hours a week and that's how I come up with how much I'm going to make the year.
>> Oh yeah, it wasn't always like that. It wasn't always like that. >> So in any event, so >> because I'm going to throw one more curve at >> that hourly schedule, which is one of the things I think we need to add for fiscal 27. Um, so when I have employees
or department heads that come to me to say, "Okay, this position isn't exempt. How much are they going to make?" I do the same thing, but I actually just go to the KTU contract because all the compensation is the same across the town, right? So I go to KTU contract and I said, "Oh, grade six, step seven, that
equals XYZ dollars an hour, which is based on 40 40 hours a week." This particular position won't work that, but that's what it's based off of. So we would just multiply it by however many hours they're scheduled to work. >> Okay. So given that fact that it's a
lower rate than you know my understanding was we took the 70,000 and change and divided it by 35. That's how I came to 38.97 an hour. Mhm. >> And then I looked up the And again,
before we get to the applicant, I just wanted to go through the systemic issue. Sure. >> Before we do the the direct issue. Yeah. >> Um >> the average pay for this position in this area is between 41 and $46 an hour.
>> Just the nurse. >> For just the public health nurse, >> right? >> Okay. So again, I'm not advocating we spend more we I'm just advocating is that the reason one of the reasons why we're not and if it isn't how can we address it?
So, one of the things Joyce and I talked about today, because I I gave her the little history lesson as well, is, you know, do we need to not have the public health nurse in a graded position anymore and have it go back to just being the hourly
schedule because we're not going to hire a benefits eligible regular regular nurse. So in that instance that would turn into similar to like um when the when the fire chief comes in to say
this is what called firefighters are getting or when wreck comes in and says this is what lifeguard's getting or whatever the case may be out in the real world or out in a comp. And so if we were to do that, again, it can't take effect until fiscal 27, but if we were to do that, um, then yeah, we could set
the rate at that $40 or $45, whatever it is, and it gets the increase, you know, as needed. Um, so would it make us more competitive? Probably. >> The point the point I'm trying to make is th this is a a fair amount of your
time, which is money. this is a fair amount of our time and this is probably the fourth time I've seen this in less than two years. >> So, let's try to solve the problem. Um, and that's why I looked at the grant or the collaborative agreement and it does
allow you to use a nurse from another town, >> right? >> Okay. But the question is, so then I looked around at the other town's looking >> everybody else. >> Okay. Plymouth has a full-time lease. Uh Plimpmpton uses the the agreement.
>> They don't even have it in their budget, >> but they use the this whatever this is. >> Carver uses the woman who is the representative for you for Southeastern Massachusetts. Alicia, what's her name? >> Oh, the nur Yeah.
>> Alicia Kaiser. >> They hire her outright. That's not through. It's not through the grant. So she work she's a an employee for the town of car. >> Yeah, she works for the town of >> the town of Weham has a full-time
sorry the town of Plymouth is who owns that grant now. So all of those employees are town of Plymouth employees. So when I'm not >> Alicia doesn't work for the town of Plymouth. She's like um she works for the grant. She somehow is >> she's a coordinator for all the towns in
the southeast region. That's one job. And then her other job is she's the public health nurse in carb. >> Right. >> Okay. >> So the question but but again and again I'm trying to systemic not individual. >> So would we be able to hold on to a nurse
if it was full-time if that nurse was here and in Duxberry. >> It's >> you're allowed to do it, >> right? No, I understand that. Here's the um >> would we be able to attract a full more a bigger audience with a full-time job
than a part-time job? I >> I honestly don't believe that to be the case because like I said, we've been trying to hire two full-time positions now for the grant at a very reasonable salary and we're getting nothing or
we're getting inappropriate or are not qualified candidates. Uh I believe they're at 85 now. >> And you're still not getting people >> $85. >> No,$85,000,000. And because this would be if we did this, it's 70,000. >> Yeah. Still not there.
>> Not. And the other thing is when you're sharing, it's been my experience with the grant. Um it can be challenging to have >> hard to work for two bosses. >> Yeah. And I'm trying to choose my words
carefully is to not um offend, but um yeah, it can be hard to work for two bosses and it could be hard to allocate, bless you, time equally. >> Y >> and so I run my department like a business.
It's a business. I have a pot of money and I need to make it work as best as I can with what I have. And I would rather have a 15-hour a week nurse that knows exactly what my expectation is that does
what this town needs in this town is that priority, not this town in another town or maybe this job. Like I I want it to be like and I is important. >> I totally respect that. But I also this
is also your time that we taken to do >> this is exhausting >> right and and so all I'm trying to do is say is just ask questions is there a better way you know we've had the same problem with the veterans agents we've had the same problem with building >> uh inspectors so you know
>> but there are mechanisms so I'm only asking have we explored it >> um or do we we just don't want to do it and um but but then that's still not going to solve our problem of turning people over every six months. And so,
>> and given that Ducks B, I believe, just did some cuts, I'm not certain they would be having a great pot of money to enter in with us. >> No, I I don't Nobody does. >> Yeah. >> Okay. So, but but
>> excuse me. The point is though that that if you're uh hiring somebody even at uh $60,000 and they're it's a 30hour week. Yeah. You get now that benefits ed eligible. That's a different but but it's also a shared expense.
>> You know, does that move up the number of candidates for us so we can eliminate this constant coming back problem? >> Yeah. Okay. >> We we do have we have had >> a nurse. Um we have one currently, but she's leaving and that's why and she's
agreed to stay on until we got somebody. She's retiring and she's been Yeah. Again, come back. Um, and she's wonderful and but she was the unicorn and that's that's my fear that we're just gonna
keep running into not good candidates. And when these two that I had came across the desk, I was like, I want to jump on this because if I don't, somebody else is going to >> understood. And again, I'm not I I'm not even talking about the candidates. I'm
>> trying to think about the bigger issue. So, I'm just asking questions. Is is there a way we can stop doing this is what it boils down to. Well, >> and what what do you recommend? >> And and I threw out ideas based on what little knowledge I have going to look. I
don't know what Derek has to say, >> but um yeah, curious. >> Go ahead. >> I am Yeah, I am curious. I know this position is we we were looking for an RN. Would is is that something that's required? Would we be comfortable with
like an an LPN instead? And I mean that might also change the salary expectations. Yeah, I think the problem I I personally wouldn't be I have reservations because with an LPN
they're they have some limitations as to what they they can do and so that also limits their previous experience. If they're not allowed to do X, Y, and Z, then they can get that experience. And it's not likely that
we'll find an LPN that has any public health experience. That's usually bachelor's level. Um, and so I I'm not a medical professional. I can't teach you public health nursing. So I need somebody that's already
skilled in that. And I think that that's that would be my only only area I could see that they could be problematic. >> Yeah. And I I I totally get that. I'm just curious. I mean, I reviewed the the description and I'm just
>> Believe me, I tried. I looked at it. I'm I'm looking for any any out to get, you know, to make this a viable position, >> right? Um and and you know I don't I don't know what the limits I I do know
that I you're right that LPN have those limits. I'm just curious you know where we would run into that. But I that but there is you know the public health aspect following up on issues and I would I I I'm just trying to think I you know
I'm just trying to do the same thing here trying to think of solutions if it if >> this isn't a reoccurring problem. >> No and I agree and I believe me I've contemplated the whole LPN thing. I think a lot of it comes down to um
training and education and and their ability to educate and um that's not usually part of an LPN curriculum. It's more hands-on basic patient care. Um some med distribution. Um I do know that
there's I like I said I'm not a medical professional. I do know there's some limitations with what they can do medically. Um, so that that would be, like I said, that's my only concern with lowering the education requirement,
>> but there's nothing legally that we have to worry about in terms of the state. >> Not that I'm aware of. And I did not I I should say this was >> it needs to be researched. >> Well, and this was already in place prior to me coming. And so my assumption is that when the nurses on my board put
it together, then I'm >> they did the work. >> Oh god. Yes. Um yes, if you've met my board, they are very diligent in educ. >> Um and when I first got here, they were again two nurses. One is a doctorate in nursing. So I'm pretty sure that they
looked into all avenues when they developed this job description. I mean, I think if like I said, I think if one of the concerns is the salary or the hourly rate not being competitive for nurses, you guys could look at for fiscal 27
taking it out and putting it back in the hourly schedule. >> Well, move it up a grade. >> Yeah. But even that, I mean, again, it was >> it's not like you What else are you going to compare it to in the town? >> No, but don't we have school nurses? Is that >> No problem.
>> Um the school nurses weren't part but none of none of school >> and they don't really do the same >> right >> thing that does. >> But what do you mean? What are we going to compare it to? Well, typically when you do the the when they did the study Yeah.
>> they looked at all the positions in the town and when they started doing the grades, it was, you know, based on responsibility, based on how many people they had, based and that's where they kind of fit into the grades. So the public health nurse though it's it's
really the square peg in a round hole trying to figure that one out because what else in the town that's a grade six would be similar to a a public health nurse. >> Well that's what I mean. It's in grade six now. Six on seven, right? Grade six. >> And so the other positions are um
outreach coordinator, >> uh public safety dispatcher, which I think is pretty comparable. Um program coordinator, which we really don't need to have anymore. Right. Right. Right. >> Um so I I think it's in the right grade. What I'm saying is
>> what's in grade seven? >> Well, that's just it. So seven is um detective control. Uh the librarians, wastewater and water treatment plant, assistant treasurer, uh a patrol officer,
there's no other librarian, but um >> I mean I think an argument could be made specialized education for grade seven is what's required for a public health nurse, >> right? >> I mean I could easily >> skills. I mean I I align them all with wastewater. You have biology, chemistry,
all of that. >> We're saying the same thing. So all I'm saying and I'm not saying that's what we're going to do. >> No, this would be for a discussion in 27 when we had the full board. Um but um >> my thing about it I my recommendation
would be because it is not a regular benefits eligible, >> right? I think that's why >> I think we're saying the same thing. >> Yeah, >> I agree. But I I but the argument I'm trying to make is that that the comparison for other positions in grade
six versus grade seven, I lean it more to grade seven than I do grade six. And the fact that we have to keep revisiting it every four to six months, tells me that that there's an issue that we should address. And um and and that's
why I'm asking those questions. So yeah, I'm I'm I'm you know uh I didn't know how you were doing the hourly, but when I didn't the math didn't work and um based on our previous discussions on certain positions, but now I understand it when you compare it to um the union
position. >> Yep. Um so I think what we ought to do is now let's move to the applicant. Okay. And and I Joyce again I hope you appreciate the fact that what I'm really trying to do
is eliminate nice to see you don't want to >> feelings are neutral you guys are lovely enjoyable people but yeah >> this is not fun for me believe me it's like a process like I spend a lot of time I have to read all of the I have to
go through everything time is money >> yeah and I mean I'm one person in a department >> right and Derek you get why I'm make asking these questions. I mean, you weren't here for any of the previous ones, but I just figured, you know, I appreciate you allowing me to
>> No. Yeah, we've had we've had two of these conversations about filling roles and I completely understand the desire to limit them in the future. So, >> and again, I you know, it's it's to me it's, you know, you either pay me now or pay me later. uh you know and I being
you know I came out of the finance committee I understand your position you know and I appreciate your input on it but on this one I'm just >> trying to eliminate this is a lot of work not not necessarily for you and I but for them to get get it here and uh
to redo the work constantly means something else isn't getting done >> right exactly and I I think that there's a reasonable discussion that can be had about whether or not we are in a position ition where we're making the the right financial decisions and you
know sometimes it is it is necessary to increase to increase salaries to attract the correct talent. >> Right. So um so we're going to move on to the applicant and if uh and then we'll just you know between us make a motion and go from there.
>> So how would you what would you like me to >> I I read I saw the resume. I saw your your uh the the listing on it. Um is there anything in there that that you want to add? Is there something we don't
know? Um you know that that was that was my question and I don't know Derek if you had any question. >> Sorry on mute here. Yeah, I guess my it looked like they had just, you know, grabbed uh or reached a new level of educational
attainment. So, I just wanted to make sure that they were that this is someone that we feel comfortable is is going to be here for a while. So, you know, please look into the future and predict that for me as well as the next lotto
numbers. Well, I'll have you know I did have a direct and frank conversation about that uh with both candidates and you know I was very honest. I'm like look I am looking for a long term. I understand that we can't you know things can happen. I understand that but I'm
looking for somebody that is looking to settle. this person um like you said lives locally and if if you you looked at their resume you can see that they've been where they're at for any very long time um throughout their career and they
are looking to do this because there's so much flexibility in that other position that they kind of pick their own time slots and so um they're excited about having a new sort of piece of nursing
outside of what they have been doing for a while. And so, um, again, live locally, have family. So, I she assured me that, um, this is a long-term plan for her. You She's, like I said, she's children, she's local, she
has, you know, ties to the community. So, >> she's still going to keep the other job. >> Yep. But she um has already let her bosses know that you know she was upfront with them about that she was looking and she was going to have a discussion with her boss that we you
know pre uh well I can't think of the word >> verbally offer >> yeah we issued her a verbal offer uh upon you know this department approving it and um so we you know I told her I said I'm really good about scheduling I
like to schedule a month out so that people can make it's because it's a part-time job. It's much easier to give somebody a schedule a month out saying, "Hey, this is when you need to be in the office. She can go and schedule her other things around that." And she
thought that was great. It gives her the opportunity to keep her feet in the place that she's currently at um while she does this as well. So, and it's also from kind of an odd little twist. She
also provides a wealth of um knowledge of community base because of who she works for and outreach. And so she also already has a lot of really good built-in resources that might pro prove quite useful not only for my department
but also you know with COA attendees and being able to help people get access to things they they might need access. She um I'm throw a hypothetical at it. >> Sure. >> We have another co. >> You have what?
>> Another co. >> Yeah. >> We need her. >> Yep. >> She coming. >> My guess is yes, she would. >> Okay. >> And we also, like I said, have two nurses on the board. Yep. and y
>> the previous um board member Janet Wade has stepped up and is acts as a medical consultant for free for our department. >> And so I believe with the three people that are involved boardwise to mentor
and guide this this nurse, I think we have a stellar team. >> Yep. You understand? I mean >> Oh, absolutely. I just figured >> nobody knows what's coming down. >> No. No. And honestly, I I >> God, please not that. >> No, I and I agree 100%. But I also um
you know, I'm comfortable and Derek, I don't know how you feel, but I'm comfortable with this person working under these arrangements. Okay. With >> I'm as well. >> Okay. Um I just wanted to hear that from you so we were both on the same page.
>> Okay. >> Great. Um, Derek, you got any more questions? >> Still waiting on those lotto numbers, but no. >> Yeah, me too. >> You know when they come in?
>> Um, and this person is um uh based on the conversations you've had is amendable to doing this based on this rate. >> Oh, she's Yes, >> she's in. Okay. Yes. >> All right, Derek. Um, you want to make a motion? Yeah, I move that the uh wage and
personnel board um recommend favorable action on the new public health nurse at grade six. >> Step seven, >> I'm sorry. Grade Sorry, step seven. Grade six. Step seven.
>> Grade six. Step seven. Okay. Um I'll second that. Uh and uh Derek >> uh yes. Jim. Yes. Okay. So, go go hire her. Let's get her on board. So, forth. But let's look at
these other questions I asked and and when we have a full board, I'd like to possibly bring you back. >> I will request >> and and ask some questions about some way systemically we can make it a little stronger. >> Okay. >> That's what I'm looking for.
>> Um and and I think you agree with me. >> Yeah. >> Okay. Um, you know, this is not the first time we've seen it. I'm not, uh, you know, uh, I realize how important it is and I'd like to just make sure that we have something,
>> but it's always a pleasure to see from all. >> All right. Thank you very much. >> Sorry. Thank you. Have a lovely evening. >> You too. >> See what else. >> You're trying to get Derek stuff.
>> Wait a minute. >> I'm looking. Well, I moved some stuff over, so I apologize. Okay, >> that's just what I wanted. Sorry, Derek. >> Yeah, sorry about that. >> Okay. Um the next item on the agenda uh is update from Tina.
>> Um so I had sent an email that the IT stipent position that uh Keith wanted to put through he's not putting through at all. So that won't be anywhere on any agenda or meeting. Um, and then we have
a youth librarian posting that's out and hiring and that's on the uh job site um the HR no on the Kingston um website we will um have so the admin board of selectman
HR IT uh assistant administrative assistant board of selectman HR IT which is uh was reclassified to a grade three for fiscal year 26. That person uh resigned. They left last week actually. Um and so we're working on that job
description, you know, just tweaking it because um some of the IT support things aren't necessarily happening. Um and that will get posted. There's been some concern about if we're going to be
able to hire someone um at that rate. um specifically if there's going to be push back on hiring above step three. So um or Swarkman's office and HR have been working to figure out how to approach
that. Um and currently to uh help us out in the interim, we have a clerical person in that clause personnel. um librarian I asked about or told about uh the building commissioner that you guys
reviewed um the board of selectman approved the appointment at the step three um but the candidate didn't want to move forward with that so we're back to the drawing board with that um I do have a question in general and it is
really in general so um the town has always done it because it's part of our bylaw in our union contracts, but now there's a law in place in Massachusetts about when we post jobs, we have to put the hiring range. And so in our case, it's
the 10 steps. The question I have is if we think that there's going to be more of a trend to not hire above step three, I should probably be putting that in the job descriptions or in the job postings. Um, so I just we don't have we can talk about it tonight. Obviously, there
doesn't have to be any like decision or anything further with that, but um some of the feedback I've gotten from candidates either from the building committee, building commissioner or um other postings quite honestly is, you know,
when I tell them it doesn't happen on the union side, but when I tell them um you know, if you above step three, we have to wage personnel, you know, they have said, well, if you're really going to pay this, you should put that in that. I'm like, well, we're not going to only pay that. you know, it depends on the candidate, yada yada. Um, but in
interest of the law that's coming through. I think it goes actually I think it went into effect last the world on the 20th, right? I think it goes in effect today that um I just want to make sure that I'm following that law so I could put the steps. I didn't have to do that, but I can put wording in. And we've done this
for some of the other like junior level positions where we've said you know it's you know $50,000 to $80,000 but it you know the expected hire will not be higher than XYZ. We tend to do that with um like the entry level librarians
um because then we are we know we can hire at a lower experience level for that and so we're not getting with someone with the 25 years of experience because we don't need that percent. So again, conversation or just something to think about. But as I'm posting the different jobs, I didn't do it with the
building commissioner repost. Um I'm not sure of what Sman's office wants me to put it through for the admin. >> Well, the one of the things that I think we all have to be realistic about is
that the further we get away from the compensation study, the further we're out of bounds from what the world is. Meaning >> what tell me >> meaning that what the average salaries are going up >> right >> since then and if we are locked in at
step three >> then the way I would look at it to have the discussion is someone show me some work that says here's where step three is for these positions and here's what the average pay is for these positions in this area.
>> Okay. It might be time to get a new study. It might be time to raise from three to five. But but that's and and honestly if you didn't have to visit the public health nurse four times if we give you the ability to do it. Um so that that's the reason why I'm
asking the questions. There's no set we're not going to hire above a step three. >> Okay. I mean I'm I'm speaking for myself. I'm going to let Derek speak for himself. But there's nothing that I I am not set on saying that. And I think
honestly in my uh votes in the past and I stand by every one of them where I've seen the fact that I believe it needs more, I've state the reasons why. If I believe it doesn't, I state my reasons why. Right.
>> Um the uh you know, I really try hard not to look at it from a financial standpoint because that's really not our purview. Um the the one thing that I haven't seen and and this is not a criticism, it's just an observation is I
really haven't seen a lot of reduction in some of the positions based on the that was one of the things we talked about during the compensation study was with the idea that we'd be able to reduce some positions by moving up some grade levels, putting people into other
positions. But the further we get away from that, the less likely that's going to happen because you're going to be under more constant pressure from what the average salary is in other towns. >> So help me remind me about the reduction. >> Well, we I remember when we did this
whole study and if you remember, we just got it left here >> and we had to deal with it. Um, and I remember asking Keith, uh, and and I remember him pausing for a moment, staring up, and saying to me, I think
there might be some reductions in positions. >> Um, the we've seen a couple. >> No, >> I'm not arguing that. Uh, and I'm not saying there should I don't know what the magic number is, >> okay? Um but the you know efficiencies
and and again as the town is under pressures and we and let's talk about it it's out there you know there has to be some discussion on how do we because 80% of the budget is the workforce >> how do we realign to meet expectations
and do we meet every one of them >> right >> I don't know that's not my in my world >> wrong you know we've had that discuss I'm sure you have. >> No, because it's >> so so but I'm not saying that's it's just part of the whole thought process. >> Uh but no, there's nothing in my world
that says I don't go above a step three, >> right? >> Okay. So, I'm the one that actually pushed you guys to step three. If you remember, >> to make you go to step three before you had to come with come to us less than step three, right? I was the one that fought for that
>> because I wanted to give you more tools to be able to hire out in the market. >> It may be a time to do that again. >> Sure. >> And and if we're going to, you know, not spend the $100,000 to do another compensation study, um it might be just as easy to tweak it.
>> Yeah. You know, >> but but show me it, >> right? >> Come come to to us and the selectman and say, "Here's where our step threes fall and this is what the jobs pay in this area." And it could be one of the reasons why we're struggling. We're proposing that we go to step four or we
go to step five. Um so that we have some flexibility and it and it shortens the amount of time it takes the applicant to say yes. >> Right. >> Okay. I'm I'm not against that. >> Right. And I mean, you know, I remember saying this because I've said it. I said it to anyone who I had to talk to about
the compensation studies. So, right. So, typically compensation studies, they're good for about three years, right? And then you either adjust for market, which we do on a cola basis, but then we have to figure out like did the market hold
the whole market change, which doesn't necessarily mean a whole new compensation study, right? It just means let's look at our comparable towns and see what we're at compared to them. Um, so it could be that's it's time to do that. Typically, you do that 3 to 5 years after a big compensation study. I
mean, I've come from employers where we've done it every year. Mhm. >> Um, we don't always make changes because you have to follow a trend and figure out if the trend is there or not. Um, but yeah, I do think that is something we should probably be doing. My concern, like I've done with any compensation
study, is if the data comes back to say, "Yeah, you're falling behind. We need to pay XYZ." And the town isn't willing to do that. Then we've set ourselves up to say, "Hey, current employees, you're not getting paid what you're supposed to and they're gonna >> No, but but I also think though that now you've set a a decision point on the
table and that is do we keep all the positions that we want because we have to provide these services or powers not us make the decision that we do away with this service so that we can and those might be the hard questions.
That's not that's not for this board." >> No. Okay. >> Okay. um our board is to bring it forward to say look we foresee a problem >> and here's what here's what the problem is here's a few proposed ideas what do you guys think and I think that's our
job so um so but going back to your initial question there is nothing in in in Derek can speak for himself but there's nothing in my world that says I won't hire above a step three okay if if that's been If you received it that way,
I apologize. >> I'm getting feedback from people >> and that is that is not what I'm doing. Okay. Um and again, I think if if someone honestly looked at my votes and looked at what I've done, um that that criticism wouldn't be there.
>> Yeah. I think people were surprised with the last one and the situation that happened with the vets agents, the one vets agent but happened twice. Um, so I think so when I have department heads or others come to me to say, are we going
to be able to get anyone that has any experience with any of these lower salaries? And I said, well, we have to see what we can get to begin with and see what needs to happen. >> But >> I have jobs I have jobs that are posted that I'm getting no one. I mean, even the healthy the the public health nurse,
I mean, we got some good candidates this time, but you guys know in the past we haven't, you know, um or even the numbers of it, right, to be able to be like, oh, we have at least two out of the 20, you know, we're not even getting two to look at. So, I just want to make sure that the town is being set up to
hire quality people. And I'm not saying every position needs some of the 10 plus years. Um, I just to have to keep, well, I shouldn't say to have to, if we're going to keep having to go back to certain positions because we either can't find the people at a dollar price or we're
getting people that are lower than what we actually need and they're not going to be successful in the position, then to your point about the the public health nurse, we're just going to keep doing this, >> right? And honestly, that's why I brought up the whole issue of systemic problems, not >> applicant problems, systemic problems.
Something's wrong. >> Okay? If you're coming to us four times in less than a year and a half to talk about the public health nurse, it's simple. Y >> Okay. And and what's wrong? We pay too little. >> What's the average? It's $4. It's $6 higher than what you guys are paying this person. You may you're getting
lucky. >> Sure. >> Okay. Um and where does $6 fall in the step grade? >> About nine. >> Okay. Well, that that that that then tells me the the systemic problem is
maybe it's in the wrong grade, >> right? >> Or not in grade at all as we talked about, but yeah. >> So, so that's the reason why I'm I'm I'm not really I'm not trying to throw a monkey wrench in it. I'm trying to come up with a I think we're getting to the outer limits of the quality of the
compensation study. That's my opinion. Okay. Based on all the the way things are coming. Okay. Yeah. >> Um and uh I think that needs to be tightened up. >> Um the you know, if you if you cast a
bigger net, you'll get more fish. That's the idea behind this. So if but but I need some data. >> That's what I'm basically saying. >> Get the data, please. >> Um Derek, um I'm off my soap box, so please give me a comment.
>> Uh I I mean I I definitely understand where Tina is coming from. I guess my only concern with with putting in language like that is, you know, I sorry, I'm thinking of like the unicorn candidate who we actually
end up paying, you know, step seven and then we open ourselves for a situation where that's that's public and someone goes, "Well, you said on your posting you didn't do this." and then you know so that's something I would like to have like town council or someone look at if
that is the route that we go but I also think it's probably something that the broader board should when all of us are there to >> to go further on. >> Yeah. And I guess I'm so to to to meet the law, you know, posting this the 10 steps is what we need to do. Like we
have we've been doing that. So check that box for >> what I'm getting as feedback is if you know you're only going to hire to a certain ballpark, that's what you should put in the posting because then applicants that
want more than that won't even apply, which just kind of saves everyone time. Um but I am fine with and I am I'm I am fine with this. I am fine with not putting you know for all positions you know expected hiring is going to be blah
blah blah. Like I said I think um there's certain positions where we don't have to pay for experience because they can grow in a job. Um and there's certain positions that we don't. Um and we need someone that can just hit the ground running. Um,
so I'm not saying should I be doing that or should I not be doing that. I just want to make sure that we're getting the applicants so we're not spinning our wheels with people are like step 10 is $100,000 and I have 40 years of experience. Why am I not being offered that? You know, um, that's it. That's
it. >> Okay. And again, Derek, you know, I stated my position in terms of I'm not it's a case by case basis with me. Um and and I would assume it's the same with you. >> Oh, absolutely. I think that based upon
the the quality of the candidate then and also I would say the need that we have for the candidate the need that we have for the role, >> right, >> would would heavily determine that, >> right? >> Um and I think honestly we ought to have this discussion as a full board. Um and
um you know I'm not saying next month but uh maybe the month after that if we could pull to some data together to look at it gives you time. >> Um it might be worth >> putting it on the agenda to have a discussion. Uh I'm not against it. I I I
I >> as I as I said I honestly feel the farther out we get from that compensation study the less effective it is. And um >> you know cola wise we've actually been trend we up until this year we were trending a little higher
>> than our our comparables um so you know for companies that don't apply colas they tend to fall behind. I think on the black and white, this is what it started as as FY24 and because
we did the colas, we're here and it should be looking really good compared to everyone else, we're probably okay, but we do need to still do the collection of that to make sure we >> and also the other side of it too is the benefit side. Yeah. you know, we've reduced benefits over the time we've
been in this compensation study and and it's the whole package that people look at. And so, so if all of a sudden we started the compensation package at 70% of medical and we're now down to 50% of medical, well, that 20% comes, I don't
care how good your cola is, >> okay? Um, and then whatever the market does to it. So, um, no, I I think this is >> compensation, right? We we we have to have this discussion and and I believe it's like I said our job to come before
the other boards with some questions, some ideas >> and you guys need to make some decisions. >> Just to be clear though, >> our ratio hasn't changed for our benefits. Our plan options went down and went. >> But at the end of the day, it's dollars. >> That's my point. You're right.
>> Dollars. Dollars are the problem. >> No, I agree. That's why, you know, I I don't want people to think we went from 70% to now. >> No, I I'm that's how I'm just using that as an example. Someone brought that up just the other day about,
you know, it's not really down the street, but the, you know, the town, it's a 8020, >> but maybe their plan is >> 80 of what? >> Well, right, isn't it? Right. Exactly. You know, I agree. So, so and when you
explain the salary how you did it, >> it I could see the apples compared to the apples instead of the apples to the oranges. So, I understand that. But um uh this it's not a simple >> no >> uh idea. I'm not saying that it is. And
and um so I hope I hope I made myself clear as far as what you know my position is. Um, and uh, I think it's important that, you know, we put this we talk about it on the agenda, but I'd like to see it come up as a future topic
within, say, the next couple of months. >> Um, not that I'm saying that we have something for town meeting, but it'd be great if we did. >> Yeah. Well, we're going into negotiations, too, so we might have to. >> That's exactly right. >> You know, um, and then the only other thing I have, and we talked about it,
you know, related to hourly um, hourly rates. So I would I would like um and we really just have to take it from KTU is um so we we talked about this before. So that schedule D says salaried positions
or salaried something, right? And we've talked about before because those positions in those 15 grades that are not salaried, the admin that we have to hunt for um >> salary schedule >> and isn't one, right? And so, you know, when I drill down to say, well, this is
the hourly rate of what that's going to be, you know, there's concern with that because if you're working 35 hour, like again, on paper it looks like, oh, I can make 80,000, but really you're only going to make 70 because you're not working 40 hours a week, right? Um, so I would
think that we would need to put in the bylaw. These are the salaried the salaried salaries for the exempt positions or exempt salaries, something like that. And then those same dollars, just like we have for KTU, are now divided out by 40 hours. And that's the
hourly rate with the wording of >> multiply it by your normal, you know, >> in in the event that these uh grades and steps are used to apply an hourly rate, the dollars used will be divided by 40 hours. >> Well, I think there needs to be a whole
schedule that has >> we can do it that way, >> you know, because and and for us, >> so we have to create a schedule. Yeah, I think for wage and personnel um you know I think maybe the first five there's a certain like the first few grades we don't even have positions in
them anyway. So I think we can just make it clearer to say these are the grades. This is the hourly rate. You know to figure out your sal your annual rate because it's not salary your annual rate. Take how many hours you're scheduled to work and multiply that this dollar amount.
>> It'd be a lot simpler with an hourly schedule, >> right? >> Yeah. A lot simpler. Okay. >> So are you thinking about keeping the salaried schedule for exempt employees? I think it needs to say exempt salary salary, >> right? >> And then a >> set of salary be exempt.
>> I would say exempt. Yeah. So >> exempt schedule or exempt >> I would say exempt annual salary. >> Exempt annual. >> And so just to show you guys and um I can show you later. >> Hold up the screen.
>> Holds it right up to the screen. Just right in. It's fine. >> So like this is how I figure out confirmation, right? So this is us. I shouldn't say us. This is wage and personnel, right? This is what KTU has in their contract. And these equal >> at the 40 hours a week. >> Yeah. So that's okay.
>> You got to throw it to Derek. You want me to? >> It's fine, Tina. It's fine. >> Did you mail it to me, too? >> Okay. >> This is why this is why this is my full compensation folder. And that's why I'm like, I can fold this so I don't see that here anymore.
>> Understood. All right. So, um, the creation of a schedule E. >> Oh, schedule E. Yes, >> that's what we're talking about. So, um, the future business. >> I can put that on our list. There you go. Right.
>> Yes. >> Where's my list? >> Okay, >> that it. >> That's it for my >> Thank you, Tina. Derek, any questions? >> Nope, nothing for me. Thank you. >> Um, one update though, uh, for me, I
don't know if this is now's the time to tell you guys, but, um, I'm expecting baby number two on November 14th. So, um, >> um, I will >> I I will um I will keep you apprised as
to uh I I don't I I imagine meeting attendance will continue to be virtual for me, but I'll let you guys know. But I just wanted to >> send that out. >> All right. Good. Congratulations. >> That's great. >> All right. Yeah, because the next meeting is November 17th.
>> Um, do we want to discuss the bylaw amendment requests? I'd rather do that in a full board. >> Just look at the list and see if there's anything I forgot. Just >> I did look at it. Yeah, I haven't had had the chance to look at that, but I do want to send you
what I have as well at some point. So, >> I'll try to get that to you next week. >> So, I am expecting um these will not likely not be funded for fiscal 27, but they need to be ready to
go. um assistant library director and assistant family account and then I will look at this further but um some
of the things I won't be able to get to. >> Now those last two do you want those to go on the list my list or >> Yeah. I mean, I, you know, I talked to the department heads and >> I'm not sure if they're going to try to put them into their budgets for fiscal
27, but, you know, they want to be ready for it to go if it can get funded, okay, >> any in any of the upcoming years. Um so yeah and just you know in general there are some departments that are looking to
add even um ATU positions. So again not that you guys are involved in that at all but you know it's th those level positions. We obviously don't vote uh police so which I'm not going to do for you guys either. Um unless they are like you get
we have wait a personnel has like the matrons and the >> Yeah. Right. Um but those are already existing. And then what else did I have? What else did I have? So I saw that you have the town clerk. >> So I'm pretty sure deleting the position
for the admin veterans is going to happen. Mhm. >> Um, and I have to check back on my emails because I reached out to labor uh right before I was out last week and um I think the vets agent is going to move to a contract. I think it should still
stay in uh as vets agent in the in wage and personnel. I think the contract will have a veteran director or something like that. um because it makes sense to like we talked about before makes sense that's probably more of a contract position than not and
>> especially under this new arrangement. >> Right. >> Right. >> Right. And I didn't write this down. >> Well, by keeping the veterans agent in the bylaw, by the way, I think we actually meet the mass requirement of having a veterans agent. >> Right. >> If we take it off the bylaw, yeah, >> I think we could run into some issues.
>> Well, I I don't know if we need the title of veterans agent if you have someone doing that job. I understand that, but safer better than not. I mean, if if there was ever an argument to keep a position, that's the one that I would make. >> Even when I spoke to Sarah about it, you
know, um I was like, you know, I think we should take I think you should keep the vets agent in the bylaw just in case. She was she was like, absolutely we should. >> Um >> and I think so just to in my head to meet the mass requirements. >> Yeah.
>> Yeah. Um, anything else on this? >> Uh, >> because I really would like to put it on. >> Yeah, absolutely. Yeah, because I >> next month's agenda, >> prepare to discuss because, um, whatever we have to do, we're going to have run out of time. >> Okay.
>> I know it's coming. >> Anything else, T? >> No. >> Okay. Well, you wanted me to keep that topic on every agenda, but you want >> Right. But I want to put it on as an action. I want to put it on the agenda to discuss uh >> discuss at the next meeting. Um if we
can have a full board. >> Well, I have discussed bylaw amendment requests. How would you >> keep it on there? >> Yeah, I was going to keep it on there forever. >> Yeah. Yeah. Keep Please keep it on there. But but I I guess what I'm saying to Derek and and if if Lorraine watches
this, be prepared. >> Be prepared to go over the list, right? >> So noted. >> I will do a new version of the list and change the date. >> Okay. Um did you have a chance, Derek, to look at the meeting minutes from
September 15th? >> Um I glanced at them. I did not have a chance to review them super thoroughly. We if you want to wait, we can. If not, I'm willing to approve. >> We can wait till the next meeting. I don't have a problem with that. >> All right, let's go ahead and wait then. Appreciate that.
>> My husband said they were dense. >> Waiting room Gail. >> Okay. >> Okay. Um >> Oh, like what is that? That's it's famous 339 numbers. It's you know
the usual. Um so Derek, the next meeting is on the calendar for the 17th is based on what you have coming up. Is there do we want to move it ahead? Do you want to move it back? >> Um if we move it ahead a week, that's I
should I'll be able to attend it. No problem. >> Okay. Um the if it's on the 17th, there's a high likelihood that uh the uh Eastston will will still be um hanging out in a hospital. So
>> that does make that slightly easier to although I'll actually be out of state then. So um but if we move it up a week, that's not a problem. >> But you wouldn't have a problem with the 10th. >> No, I would not have a problem with the 10th. >> Okay.
How about you? >> Well, here's the reason. >> Yeah, go ahead. You got Veterans Day is the next day. >> Yeah, right. >> Veterans Day the next day and um I may be off. >> Right. >> I'm not really sure given that I've had to take time off. So, but it doesn't matter if it's a night meeting, I guess.
>> You sure? I mean, we can do a We've got a little flexibility that week. >> Can we do the 12th? >> Derek, can you do the 12th? >> Yeah, I can do the 12th. That's Wednesday night. >> Okay. Yeah. Yeah, I can do that. You just have to see if we have a space.
>> Let me see if I can do the 12. >> Usually bad. >> Okay. Sorry. Sorry. >> Let me check. I just have to uh if it has to be the 10th, that's fine. I was planning on going away, but with everything happening, I'm like, I don't think I can. >> No, this the 12th would be bad. What
about the 13th? >> Well, that's the day before his baby's going to get born. >> Oh. I really know that because it's more sounds worth it. >> Uh well, you know what? Let's just keep the test. Completely fine. Completely fine. >> Are you sure? >> Yeah. >> All right. I mean, you know, I It's
totally up to you. All right. Uh Derek, right now we're going to have it on the 10th at this point. >> All right. Works for me. >> Okay. >> Would you want to do it >> the week before? >> You don't have a lot of time. We're already October the 20th now. Uh then
you got town meeting. >> All right. >> So, um I I I I'm not against it, but you know, it just moves it up quick.
>> All right. We'll just leave it at the 10. Ask Lorraine >> and then we'll go from there. >> All right. >> All right. Um, last is uh topics not reasonably anticipated to be discussed 48 hours in advance. I see we have someone that just
joined our meeting. I don't know if this is a good time to put that. If that person has any questions, Gail, um, you know, I'd certainly take that now. Want to speak to us about anything? No, I'm good. I just like to check in
every once in a while. Hi, Tina. >> Hi. >> Okay, no problem. I just wanted to make sure. All right. >> Thank you. >> Thank you. Um, anything else, Derek? For the good of the group. >> Nothing further from me, >> Tina?
>> You? >> No. >> Okay. Just want to make sure. Okay. All right, Derek, I'll take a motion to adjurnn. >> So moved. >> Okay, I'll second it. Uh Derek, >> yes. Uh
>> Jim, yes. Thank you everybody. Part: 2
board meeting public library board of trustees. It is 601. Um in attendance I'm just going to have us go around the room. I'm Emily Curtain, >> Jen Quackenbush, >> Matt Donahue, >> Lee Lewis, >> Donald Cologne, >> Parker, your recitus.
>> Thank you. Um a change in the agenda order. We have no minutes for approval tonight. Next month, we will approve last month's one minutes and this month's minutes before we move on and we're going to bump up a part of positions updates. And I'm going to give Director Cohen the floor.
>> Okay. Excellent. Um so yes, so as you know, we've um been going through some staff changes. So I just wanted to introduce our new teen and emerging technology um librarian, Parker Yarasitis. Um Parker comes to us from a couple of different libraries. um both
the Penrook Public Library and the Ducksberry Library. Um so very familiar with OLN practices and um you know is a recent graduate of um Simmons College and um University and um we are thrilled
to have him on staff. >> I'm excited to be here as well. Um so I've already begun to kind of get settled. Um, one of the big things I really want to get started on, um,
as soon as I can, right now, um, is planning outreach, um, so I can begin to form those like, um, connections with the teams. already. I have planned uh for November. Um a day where I'm going to go to the high school and meet them while they're all kind of like cycling
through their lunches, bring in a few things. Um like a little pamphlet just to let them know what we can do. Um some library card uh signups that they can bring in um and sign up for a library card with. Um,
I'm also beginning to work on just kind of managing the collection a little bit and shifting things around. Um, one of my big goals was to give the graphic novels and the manga more space than they currently have since it was very difficult to get anything on the shelf. Um, we actually just or Donald just
moved um a low shelf from over here in there. Um, and I'm hoping to ultimately switch where they are with the tween books. So kind of all the teen books are grouped in the same area. All the tween books are together. Um I've also begun to kind of work on the beginnings of
programming. Um that however um one of the things that I'm I'm putting in a pamphlet that I'm bringing to um school is just kind of brief survey of what teens want um programming wise, materials wise, and techwise. Um so I can get a little bit of feedback from
them. Um, I've also looked through a calendar of like what was wrong previously to try to compare um things that have been successful in the past um with my skill set skill set right now and what um in the future ultimately um I hope to be able to
provide for them. Um do you guys have any questions? >> My question was about if they had reached out the high school librarian and the middle school librarian because I know excited. Yeah, I've I've already met the high school librarian a couple times. She's the one who has been communicating with my outreach. She
actually came um this weekend briefly and we chatted and we I've had a bunch of discards to like give her um and she's been my primary contact. I have to double check with the middle school librarian since I reached out to her.
Haven't heard back and I figured okay give her >> It's her first year. So >> it's her first year. Yeah. Um, so I'm gonna try to touch base again this week and just make sure I didn't get buried under a pile of emails. >> Great. Thank you. >> Yeah. >> Any other questions?
>> We're happy to have you. >> Likewise. I'm excited to be here. >> You kind of like the manga that seems a little more tailored toward that interest. >> Yeah, definitely. I um my undergraduate degree was also in pretty much comics.
So I they have a special place in my heart as well and just I know how much teens really do enjoy the manga and graphic novels and they'll come checking out that giant stack. Um so I'm excited to get that um that
collection the the love it deserves. >> Is there any plan to like communicate that to students? >> Yeah, one of the things that I actually plan um is a graphic novel book club. Um because again I love talking about graphic novels and comics. Um, and
I want to give them the opportunity to talk about it, especially since it's still something that um, schools are kind of growing into um, >> villainizing >> as like another thing that you can talk about because um, you know, um, so
that's one way that I also want to like advertise that like yeah, this is a big focus. This is something that I know that I love and I know that you guys love. Um, so promoting it ultimately I hope also that the graphic novel book club I've
been beginning to try to start the seeds for a teen advisory board since I know we previously had one. Um, and again, I think that's a fantastic way not only to get teens involved with the library just but as a
community as a whole understanding that like they can have an impact on things around them. Um, so I'm hoping once kind of get the graphic novel book club off the ground, maybe be able to get some teens who are super like involved and
interested in that, um, beginning to pick titles and have like a little question bank prepared. um and give it more or not give it entirely but um work hand inand with them to
support their needs and interests if that isn't too long-winded better align kind of like what they >> Yeah, exactly. Yeah, that's something very important to me. I don't just want to be making assumptions.
>> Speaking as a working middle school librarian right now, I second that thumbs up 100%. I know for us manga and graphic novels are definitely our big draw. So I think having someone with their finger on the pulse of things running that here is really special. >> Thank you.
>> Yeah. >> Any other questions? >> Not seeing any. As I said, you're not obligated to stay and watch the inner workings. See you around. Take care. >> Welcome. >> Thank you.
>> It's just one fire to the next at work. I'll do just >> um the next part or the next item on the agenda is the director evaluation submission. As you know, we completed this a couple of months ago. Um but this is just a public reminder of how it
works. In the beginning of the process every year when we do the director evaluation, director cologne fills out a self-evaluation um we have access to that but then each of us are responsible for our own evaluation of director cologne. I compile all of our individual
evaluations and create a single document that is then presented um as the result of all of our work. Um I we are both going to sign that document today because a copy of it will go to the townhouse. All very efficient. Just
>> even with my glasses on. I'm just gonna >> now I must become the director of the library. >> Thank you very much. >> Even if we don't remember Donald review. >> All right. Tutor policy vote. So last
month we discussed the tutor policy and really we found that we were happy with it. We didn't have any corrections um or adjustments to what's printed here, but we do have to revisit our policies every so often just to make sure that they're up to date and effective. So given that
we didn't find anything and I'm assuming in the time between then and now there haven't been any um suggested edits or changes. Okay. So, not seeing any, I would take a motion to I think we just have to say that we reviewed it a review date of um
review and acceptance date of October 20th because the policy is going to continue as printed. >> I feel bold. I'll make the motion. >> All right. >> I move to accept the existing policy on tutors as written with no changes with a
review date of October 20th, 2025. I will be so second. >> Right. All in favor. >> Any opposed? Not hearing any. >> A shame because I would like to allow some light solicitation, but I guess
>> so. Then we have >> our policy on solicitations discussion. And this is a a wee bit more problematic than the tutor policy because Donalding >> that some of the language no longer works. Um so Donald, I don't know if you
want to introduce why we've decided to look at this next. So um so the reason why I brought it forward was um we've had inquiries from a couple of different um organizations
looking to um be able to um ask solicit for you know various things. Um one being for example we had a future Girl Scout group asked about being able to do a bake sale at the entrance of the library. Um and then we also had another
community organization um a town group that wanted to you know do um make requests like solicitations for um you know purchases of items and things like that as part of a fundraising that so looking at the policy then looking at
the policy referring to another policy which is the policy on posting and distribution of non- library materials there's conflict in the language in one policy it's like yes you can do this in another policy it says no, you can't post anything on our bulletin board
that's fundraising. Um so basically this will address the we're kind of looking at both policies at once um as far as um getting both cohesion um you know between the two. So whether or
not having a group come in and want to, you know, as I said, you know, Girl Scouts doing bake sale outside, but not necessarily having a flyer on our bulletin board, which is what the other policy would refer to. Um, so it's just trying to find cohesion between the two.
Um, also there's mentioned about um commercial activities for other organizations may take place within the meeting room only if they are consistent with the board's meeting room policy. Well, we no longer have a meeting room. It is now the teen room. So that would then >> 2019.
>> Yeah. And that would have to then default to being the Adam Center, which then that would default to the Adam Center building use policy, which I am pretty sure that this that sort of commercial activity would not be allowed based upon that policy. So this is going
to be a deeper dive um than the the tutoring one. Um so you know we presented these you know I will um you know have edits to and recommendations. Um obviously I'll take a deeper dive as to you know what the building use policy
at the for the atom center says and where we can kind of line these up and it can be further discussion and a vote at the next meeting. But um if not it can just be further discussion at the next meeting and carry over the vote to another meeting if there's more um you
know involved with it. So for me, I guess my question is what are commercial activities and fundraising activities? Like I guess I need examples of because I don't feel like we have many of those going on. >> Yeah. >> Currently as it and h nor have we
>> and honestly like the girl scout example doesn't in my mind doesn't register as a commercial >> right thing is it and that's not a rhetorical question. >> I think of it as a volunteer organization. So it's not I I just don't think >> rightification >> right
>> difference between a lack of a better word a corporation and like a nonprofit >> right >> like well that's the distinction in my brain is like I wouldn't consider that a commercial if it was a nonprofit. Uh Dan maybe you could fill us in on that.
>> Oh is it just returns? >> Yeah we have foundation members here. Oh >> I think it's book bag pickup. Um, so I don't know like we're trying to figure out like we we need different language commercial activities and fundraising activities. I don't think oral cure.
>> Yeah. >> Activity that is like is everything that has happened or been asked to happen in recent memory related to things like the Girl Scouts that are nonprofits or are there like businesses seeking to do some
kind of like I can't think of how but I think commercial I think business. I think like a pampered chef party in that >> correct correct and I think that might be something that needs to specifically be listed in there is um in regards to
you know nonprofit. So I wonder if before the next month's meeting we start looking at and I I won't say we I can look at them at the policy on solicitations that other libraries have and see what they're using for their language to identify the
groups >> because I think that's >> right >> possible >> if there's a good reason not to do that. I sort of wonder relatedly, and this could be me trying to scotch tape on a
hole in the side of the boat here, but looking specifically at the posting and distribution of non-l materials policy where the other things that you know are, and I quote, not to be considered for posting,
I would assume are not like hot button items. the same way this commercial and business advertising portion is. I wonder if it would come to that if we could create a separate little cutout like that part is discretionary and the rest of this whatever we decide that might be is still off limits if it came
to that it made more sense in my head. >> No, but >> no. So you're talking about the specificity of the >> you're saying for the for the posting and distribution to list what is permitted versus what is not
>> what is >> with discretion with the discretion of either the board or the director or some combination thereof. Yeah. But I think that would probably be dependent whatever that looked like on any changes we may or may not make to policy on
solicitations soon. >> Be worried about being accused of favoritism discretionary which >> still might be fine. >> Good good luck if we if everything is approved with like a valid reason. Good
luck trying to establish discrimination. I think that it would probably be best to keep it well defined and not have it discretionary. >> It wasn't the wording I was like, >> right? Well, like it would be, you know, like
even terminology of like with trustee approval, you know, that you know, >> yeah, >> it could open the door that if there's an organization that there is any type of bias that one way or the other or um
you know any type of um animosity what have you with okay, you let the you know such and such group meet once and but now you don't know who like who the president of that group is now, so you're not going to let do it. Whereas if it was just clearly defined, then that's the system and um
that would be it' give us better, you know, guidance. >> I mean, I I'll say the my favorite part of both of these policies is the specificity in the bulleted list >> because it doesn't leave a lot of room for interpretation or like oh no wiggle room where I think I can get in under this.
>> Yeah. I think we both need to like it is for this purpose. It is not for these. Yes. And if it if something were to emerge that doesn't fall in the yay or the nay, then it requires board connotation approval or something. Absolutely. >> But if we can be try to be as defined as
possible. So like if you're one of these things, it's a yes. If you're one of these, it's a no. >> And if you're some mysterious other thing, then we'll have to to look at it fresh. That's actually um looking at the first thing that like stuck out of my
brain was there's still a whole lot of politics that isn't candidate for ballot talking about like u you know stances on like guns, abortion, like controversial issues that you let someone in and then someone who's vehemently opposed on the other side comes and says, "Hey, what
are you doing with political organizing in the library?" >> What I wonder about that? >> I wonder if you could put candidate slashissue. I I >> make sure the language >> candidate issue or ballot I would maybe just candidate or issue because I think issue covers ballot measure. >> I'm not >> I think if we better define what it is
for also like it seems like that board is really for like community gathering events. So >> I I understand the sentiment. I'm worried we might lock ourselves into a very narrow window if we stop defining what can't go on and start defining defining
>> I need you both. Well, um, but then what's that gray area where it's neither disallowed nor mentioned? Like, is that allowed or no? And do we I think we we need to come to like a consensus, well, maybe not consensus,
but I guess somewhat general agreement that we are either going to exclude behaviors or we're only going to include. I almost wonder, do we even have the latitude legally, if we were hypothetically to do that kind of thing, would we even have the latitude to put
political issues as a prescribed thing on that list? It's one thing where it's out and out political activity like supporting or opposing a given candidate, supporting or opposing a ballot measure, that kind of thing. But if it's something more nebulous like a
group in support of this cause or a group that opposes that cause, if it's not tied to specific political activity, I'm not sure we would even necessarily have a legal leg to stand on if we were to procribe that kind of thing.
>> But I feel more comfortable with issue in the listed in the language in that regard. I mean, I don't think no one's ever, as far as I know, asked to post uh political in any way piece of material inside the library because I
think people understand that it's not the type of space for for that sort of thing. >> Um >> maybe I mean I just you know any hypothetical we can come up with could theoretically become true down the line. There's never any way to know. >> I think we're living in post law right
now. So >> So maybe not. I I mean maybe we leave it and just fingers crossed that no one comes to post about blood relationship. >> Issues don't cover us. >> The problem is >> even if they want to meet to have us
define issue to them. >> It's something materials and support or opposition to any specific religious conviction. Like it would seem like it would follow them that you also couldn't have materials with support or opposition of any specific >> political conviction. Like it feels like
the same idea. Otherwise, you know, you could theoretically like even on like an issue like abortion, you'd say, well, it's political, but it's also religious. It's, you know, like >> it feels like at that point you start splitting hairs. It almost seems like it's more in the spirit of this to say like it's not supposed to be about
partisan things. >> Just out of curiosity, what's on the board right now? >> Well, it's basically community events. Um, so the upcoming um bone marrow drive um
I think there's um as I'm not the one who puts the stuff on there um my mind is my head is going blank at this point >> and I know it changes my change. So any kind of community thing we've had you know the conservation department when they were um you know promoting some you
know um services and things like that they they had put up. So there's a lot of town information on there. There's also like community theater >> has put stuff up there. Um things pertaining to the school, any school events and stuff like that that has also gone up there.
>> Yeah, I think again it's just a language issue. >> Yeah, I just worry because I'm an anxious person by nature about us getting sued for something like that. too far like politics in general. Let's say it's
perfectly fine and legal and yet someone gets their be in a bonnet about it. You know, baseless lawsuits are still expensive. >> Absolutely. So are we in agreement then maybe if I look at some policy on solicitations
just of other libraries to see when >> and then maybe it will help us guide us to marry these two policies more clearly >> and then I suppose we have to factor in >> did a good job with when we did the Adam center usage too. It feels like that
overlaps here that there might be language from that one that we looked at. Was that this summer or last summer? >> Um to be able to be consistent with >> so that it all it all makes sense. >> So this doesn't happen. >> Well, well that's exactly it. There needs to be consistency in the policies
um because obviously we have two policies that are conflicting. >> Right. >> Right. It seems like the same type of organization that would be allowed to use the Adams Center, which I think we kind of designated, would be the same type that would be able to do something
here in the minimal space available. >> I wonder if it would be worth in the course of review specifically looking at other libraries that own more than one property or maybe have more than one facility in their like >> arsenal of buildings.
>> Yeah. I like that one. That's that's an AP US history. >> I was going to I would imagine that any efforts we take to ensure our policies and availability are consistent between buildings would be similar in nature to
whatever those libraries or library systems have done. >> I can look and see add it to my list. My my worry there though is that you know if we're looking at libraries in general they got a lot of libraries with a lot of ideas and people select the best ones and that's you know great thing about being a human like you don't need to
come up with original ideas you select the best ideas from what you but how many libraries actually have a comparable >> maybe two or three that you worry that like whatever language they have might not be as finely tuned as a general library language so I'm not
saying we don't do that but maybe we we put that under mic general library. >> I think also we'd have to take into consideration if it's a library that happens to have more than one building in its physical plant, it probably has the personnel to staff both buildings in
a way that we don't have here even though we have the two buildings. >> That's true. >> So, have someone staff? >> Yes. So, Nick is in the item center. Um, but it's not like it's not like he's there to have patrons come through. I mean they can make an appointment. He's
really there in the bus. >> Yes. >> Yes. >> Um All right. So then we can continue the discussion next month. We have some idea about language. >> Can I ask why? um because of the so from my
understanding is that because there had been a um court decision made about the use. It had to do with the deed. >> And so my understanding was was that when the library moved over here, the
town utilized the space for um you know renting it out for you know as a hall or what have you um sort of thing. Exactly. So, there were social events and things like that. And I don't I'm not exactly sure what spearheaded the um court
challenge, but evidently the way the deed is written is that the building is to be used for the benefit of the library. So with that said, the order said you could have town offices over there for I think it was up to two years
or something, but then they had to go and then basically it be used by the library and as a meeting space and what have you. add the layer of it being on the National Historic Register, you know, that brings up more challenges of, you
know, because the question because there are comments that I hear in the community about the lack of use of the space, but at the same time, if this was a heavily heavily used um building like the library open, you know, 51 hours a week, there isn't funding to maintain it
as is due to the fact of the historical restrictions. on it. Um, so when Nick has done the archives that basically was laying the foundation of showing the use of that collection and what was available to the
community so that when we reach the point that we can go to town meeting and say, "Hey, we need extra staffing so that we can offer more over there." Um because having an individual staffed in an off-site building um is both a safety
and security challenge. Um you know short of me going over there visiting or you know him you know checking in with me you know he could fallen down the set of stairs and I wouldn't know it. You know for example um so the community
members who do use the collection do make appointments with him. Um but like when recent times with staffing issues, he's pulled to come over here to cover the reference desk or cover circ. Um so there isn't a good way to um at this
point to have it fully open like regular library hours. We're working our way up to that. any other suggestions or um thing you'd like me to look into in terms of these two policies. >> Right.
>> Assuming it would be not realistic to have a policy where people could rent it if there is an additional cost from our end especially off hours. >> So that is in the building use policy.
So there there is in the building use policy about um the use of the space and the need for you know custodial staff and so forth which we basically no longer have. Um so that's one of the challenges. Um but it's about what the
quote unquote use of the space the event. So, for example, if somebody wanted if a somebody wanted to had a was a business owner and wanted to have a Christmas party over there, can't do it. It has to be something that is cultural, art, civically based, you know.
>> The Girl Scouts had a Christmas party there. >> Well, sort of. Yeah. Like the Girl Scouts actually have met there. They've done signups over there, you know, stuff like that. So because it is kind of a community kind of um you know activity
that's why it's more open. Um I you know recent more recent times have gotten many bridal shower requests um which we could you know really fun the library with the bridal showers just serious. >> But then you have to put on planner hat.
>> Yeah. >> I'll unlock the door but that's it. >> People order in large case. Yeah, >> like wedding size kids. >> Yeah. Um so it is something that you know that that we're working on and one of the things that is just an aside for that is that I have been working with HR
and um job descriptions and you know creating new positions and one of them is um to provide more services to the community is for a passport agent um with the idea being that they would be located over at the outing center so that there would at least be two staff
members um working over there. Um, >> do we have legal counsel or legal resources that we can ask these kinds of questions to? >> Um, I can ask the interim town administrator if we can talk to legal
counsel, but the board itself doesn't have. >> Um, >> but so there is like an indirect resource but not a direct. >> Correct. Correct. >> Our board member attorney retired. >> Yes, he did. He did. Yes. Okay. So then this will be we'll be
revisiting this next month obviously. >> Um the next item on the agenda are position updates which we did sum up with the introduction of Parker. >> That is correct. Um so this Wednesday our new library tech will beginning will
begin. Um her name is Grace. Um so she will be filling the 19hour week position that was vacant. Um and then as far as the head of youth services position, um it was posted. We have received some
applications. I did conduct um my the first interview today. Um but it is still a work in progress. >> Um the backroom storage project. >> Okay. Um so I mean
>> it is it is Well, it's not it's exactly Well, it's what it is is basically >> um I I met with the facilities um manager to discuss this to some degree. Um they have they were hoping to get
over here last week. Um unfortunately with the weather and um the volunteers that they were going to utilize um they are going to be cleaning out the back storage area of unused shelving and furniture that um we no longer need.
That will clean up the area. It's kind of you know doing spring cleaning back there. Um and it so it will take up quite a bit of um effort to do that. So they'll that will be when they do that it will set us up to be able to kind of
have um more of a staging kind of area so that we can then go through the rest of what's back there to you know kind of clean out um the I took a look into um the flooring
company that I had previously reached out to. I am you know hopeful that they will reach back to out to me. I had reached out to them back in April. Um I had been working with the building um inspector um on that project. However,
um he is no longer part of the town. So um he was kind of the liaison working with me. So I'm just trying to touch base with them on that. Um but I just mainly wanted to update about the cleaning aspect of it and the removal of the shelves. Um, some of them some of
the shelving in there was donations from a previous library that got a new building and gave us their leftovers um that were not utilized well. Um, but hopefully um this will be a step in the right direction.
>> Sounds it. And part of that is there going to be storage space like as well? >> There will be some storage. There will be some storage. Um it won't definitely obviously it won't be as much um you know because it is like your dining room table that if that dining room table is cleared it will get filled up.
>> Yeah. >> Um you know but you know we we just have to be more thoughtful about things and not necessarily things like things that might be like oh you know that may just need a little TLC so we'll just hold on to it just in case. It's like no it
needs to go. DC. >> Yeah. No, no, >> thank you very much. And then budget update. >> Okay. So, with the um well, it's
actually fiscal 27 budget update. So, um we have been notified by the um town accountant um about basically creating a presentation. As you know, I've been kind of working on it anyways. um but it
is more formal. There was a um a mention in the communication to department heads that previously there were some forms that had been used that did a narrative about the departments. So, normally in the past since I've been here, it's basically the software is similar to
kind of like an Excel spreadsheet like here's your current numbers, here's empty column, fill in what your new numbers are. Only if it's a major increase do you give detail. Well, now it's more than that. it is. Um, give that information. Give a narrative about
the library. List all of your employees. Give a brief description of what each of your employees does, what your goals are for the coming year, what your goals and successes were of your previous year, the previous fiscal year um and stuff
like that. So, it is it is a more developed um broader kind of activity. Is this um presentation then going to be given to Finn Kong and the board of selectmen? >> That is correct. The goal the goal is to
make >> um in the entirety from my understanding >> preferred. >> Yes. Um from my understanding that it is in the entirety. The whole idea is that um so first off the the request about the forms and things like that is
actually how the the bylaw is written. So I don't know if it's a practice that they just got away from and you know um now we're actually looking at that again. Um but the idea is to give um you know transparency and understanding of
each department's budgets especially those of us who are considered like the bigger budgets um you know because obviously an office that you know the townhouse is going to have a department head and an admin and then there are shared resources for general expenses. So they don't have what, you know, we
have, you know, we're paying the water bill, we're paying the sewer bill, we're, you know, doing, you know, um, materials purchasing and and stuff like that. So it is, you know, more giving more information, which I'm completely fine with. I and that's what I'm used to
in my previous directorship. That's what I did. I did a full on presentation. Um, >> I think it's great that they're having all of the members involved because I think relying on representatives and then the representatives bringing back the information to the larger board,
things get lost in translation and so this way everyone hears the same information. >> Absolutely. Absolutely. And this is similar to with last fiscal year when we you know had the the potential cut um and the the vote was taken and they kept
the cut but then I did create the graphs and everything and submitted it and then a revote was taken and then they restored the money. So it is about educating people you know about you know what our guidelines are and you know
with the MBLC the state and for certification >> because we're also the only department that has those sorts of guidel Absolutely. >> Adhering to >> absolutely >> bless goodness because I'm glad. >> Yeah. >> You know, you're telling I think for a
bigger audience. >> Yes, the show is bigger. >> Um and the Baker and Taylor update which I realize for people who aren't in the biz. >> Absolutely. I'm sorry to explain that. So, for those of you who are not in the
biz, um, Baker Taylor has been a a book vendor since the early 1800s. Um, as long as I've worked in libraries, they were the primary vendor for um, materials. What basically happens is various vendors go out to bid. So for
example, one year Baker Taylor might be in on have the lowest bid for adult hard covers and Ingram might have the, you know, lowest bid for children's soft cover books and what have you. And you just kind of work with, you know, with
that. Um, so they were recently an attempt was to recently um sell the company and that did not go through. So they announced that they would be closing um they would be ceasing. So it
is the company that we use for automatically yours titles which for the adult section which those are titles that you know the staff don't manually have to order all the bestseller authors because they're so proficient they you know we work off a list that any book by
Emily Curtain you know we automatically purchase that title. Um so that is the vendor that we use for that. We use them for the leasing um of bestsellers. Um we also use them for sustainable shelves which is when we discard materials and
we send them back we get a credit. Um so that is also um going to be affected. But the real one real big thing is that they are actually the company that um has the
software that we do utilize for the ARIS and financial reporting to the state. So um they you know the MBLC has been sending out emails about that. So obviously they're looking into other
ways to do state reporting next year but obviously this is so new that it's still you know too early to predict anything. Um it was recommended that um we go on to the um collect which is what it what it's called and download our data um
because we won't have access to it after you know January. Um, so that has already been done. Um, and it will be compiled into one singular um, kind of spreadsheet because when you download it, once it's downloaded and you reopen
it, it actually opens up to a an Excel sheet with it's just one single string of information. So the goal is to basically copy and paste all the um, consecutive fiscal years together. So then it becomes, you know, one
document. Um, but it will, you know, impact us that way. Um, >> I could probably help with that. I do like data processing as my job. So, >> okay. Awesome. Awesome. >> That processing. Um, so yeah, so this
is, you know, so this was very surprising. Um, so we are having now at this point all these random um kind of book dealers reaching out >> to get business. >> Yeah. Yeah. to get our business. There evidently Amazon has their own book.
>> Absolutely. So they they >> could access that right now. >> Nothing's functioning at this moment. >> Yeah. Yeah. Exactly. Um so yeah, so that's um kind of where we're at with that. But just know that next year with the ARIS it will be some other company
or you know, >> but everyone will be in the same boat since >> Oh, absolutely. Absolutely. Yeah. And I don't know if other states if they use a different product or whether they actually do the type of reporting that we do. So that's what probably what they'll do is they'll just look to see what others are doing.
>> Thank you for that. Um so now we're actually going into even more. >> All right. Um so from the director's report um as I mentioned I had you know interviews for the library tech position we have a new
person starting um attended meet members council meeting um when we talked about the new ILS system and the standardization of the network um we actually just had another um members
council meeting last Thursday in situ And um they did take a vote and we are moving to standardizing. And what um what that means is OLN historically has been a network that has
allowed libraries even though we're part of a network to have their own individuality. So, a library like us, everything we have checks out for two weeks
and you know there's no like one week for new books, one week for magazines, three weeks for whatever. And historically the challenge has been is that if a library from another if items from another library come to us
and they have different loan periods while in some networks they would default to the checkout library they don't they follow the home library. So, for example, if you were requesting six data processing books
from various libraries, you could end up getting five different due dates >> because it also takes into consideration whether or not so where you're checking it out on a Friday, but that particular library that owns it doesn't isn't open Friday, so then it goes to the Saturday
date and and you know, so there's all the quirkiness. So, I have always felt that that was not good customer service. So this will require all libraries to have a consistent um you know loan period for
the um for the general materials new items library things special kind of collections those will still remain separate. Um and so as I mentioned we are two weeks they did vote this that it
will be um three weeks and with two week um two renewals. There is some that the vote was taken um it was a slaughter of those who voted against it. Um but there are some
libraries that actually have to go to their boards to um get that type of approval. Um so there might be some challenges to this because it basically is network um policy versus obviously the the
authority of um you know any oversight pertaining to the library goes to those who are you know responsible for the library which would be the trustees. So something like changing due dates nearby libraries were adamant that they have to go to their board they can't just say yeah sure this sounds great. Um so there
may be a challenge but at this point it was voted um for three-week loan period. Obviously that will impact our circ stats um because it would then mean rather than an item going off for two weeks, it's now going up for three
weeks. So we will see a decline with that. That should only be impacting the first year of the of the um you know as we transition to that. This change is scheduled to occur when we get the new ILS system which will be sometime in
April. Um and part of that with the new new ILS is that they have recommended um that we start doing major reading of the collection because right now with our current system we can you know look up a book and see okay
it's been checked out 15 times. The last time it was used was in April. When we move to the new ILS, all that information will be gone. So all it will have is that this yellow pad of p we have a yellow pad of paper. We don't know how many times it's been written
on, how many times it paper was used in the are we just losing historical data or are we losing our ability to store that data? >> So like after we switch over to the new system, do we start building a new history? >> We build a new history. So the idea
being so for example so what we would want to look at is um normally with professional standards looking at materials um so I do the DVD so I can say you know the professional standard is if a DVD hasn't been checked out in a
year as a major film you just it's just got deleted. Um, >> is it do they allow for importing of data? Because I could I mean if I got like a records I could import that data. It's another thing I could do.
>> Um, this would be a network thing. So I don't um I don't know enough about that cloud of you know part of things to be able to answer that. Um I'm thinking probably not. Um,
>> I mean it's I also want to say it's like a database administrator kind of thing, but it's like do they have some kind of tool to allow for like uploading historical data >> and it would be like you give them a CSV and they can adjust it. >> So, and that that they either have or they don't. I don't think there's any gray area. Oh, they don't have that.
They have some other solution. It's probably either that or no. So, I don't know if you can ask about that. >> I I will or if you care about that historical data all that much because it seems like your primary caring about it. Well, that I mean that that would be the case, you know, we would want that kind
of data um you know, moving forward. We we would want so if there was a way to save it um you know and carry it over. So I don't know whether or not if it's just and that's one of the reasons so one of the reasons why we are you know moving um to the new ILS is due to the
fact that the current ILS is um you know antiquated and um there is no longer support and all that good stuff. So whether or not things are compatible like our online calendar with that other vendor they move they went to move it to
a new server and that was an antiquated system and it crashed and it went out of business. So I don't know if it is compatible to do that but I will definitely check. >> So if you can export our current data
and if they allow you to import data I will almost certainly be able to do regardless of what else it is. And I've I have actually done that before for sketchers. >> Okay. This is quite the meeting.
>> I know. This is great. People are offering new desserts. >> Lively discussions and everything. This is awesome. We need to bang on more table. >> I think we should have more screening that
my wife bring that. >> Yeah. I'm good to be on camera. Darn it. My wife So I attended a cyber security training webinar. Um this webinar will be shown to the staff at next week's um staff
meeting. We are having a staff meeting at um next Monday. So we are closing early in order for um to have this training. We are going to have um sensitivity training um as well as a regular general staff
meeting. We also will be have we have two new services that we're going to be providing. I actually signed the contracts today um that will be starting on November 1st and one of them is um called um
I just totally lost it. Um hive class. Um so the for hive class and play garden. So, Hive Class is a um collection of um tutorial videos for um
health and wellness and exercise. And the idea being that um these are done by coaches and professionals as well as the average person. Um this was the idea was that they this is something that somebody with the library card could
utilize in their own home. you know, perhaps doing these activities build up the confidence to then go to more structured, you know, settings to get more of a benefit health-wise. Um, it is something that can be shared with the Council on Aging Recreation. And another suggestion with them was that if we had
any homeless shelters in the area, um, that if they had a kind of like a um, institution card or regular library card with us that they can show these videos as activities. So they could actually use them as um you know kind of programming um
>> facility on Bishop's Highway. >> Yes. Yes. Yeah. Yeah. That was exactly it. Um and so you know so there's all sorts of sports and you know there's there's pickle ball and baseball and within each section it's like how do you dribble? How do you you know do a jump
shot or something like that. Um, I did I did I did yo I did look at the yoga one and just so you know that there is a corpse pose very entertained by that. Um, >> months for that. >> Yeah. So there, you know, so they're definitely, you know, and it was
affordable um for both of those. So it was 1,500 for both that and the play garden one. Um, so the play garden is um what they did was they partnered with a um a
what is it? A um basically a high-end preschool out of New York. And what it is is um preschool curriculum and support. Um so each day is different.
like today you could log in and today we're going to focus on the letter B and there would be video activities you could download worksheets um and and stuff like that. So there's a lot of educational support there that their mission was was that you know the
demand for use of their facilities to have for preschool is so high that they felt that you know there's a lot of people that unfortunately either cannot you know afford to send their children to preschool the waiting list to get into preschools and so forth. So they thought thought if there's a way that
they could you know reach a broader audience um you know in offering that educational support. There is another um aspect of it which we did not opt into um because it was more money but it would be to actually that um have live
teachers. So there would be for example there could be a story hour at 10:00 with Miss Jen and you would zoom in and Miss Jen would conduct a classroom you know as she normally would with the you know preschool the story time or
what have you. and then um you know on the camera the kids' names would be listed on there. So she would call on the children to have that interaction. Um so they felt that it was good um kind of support um you know to kind of get kids prepped to
having another adult you know um kind of ask questions and you know do the educational support and stuff. So we opted up not to do that yet um because as I mentioned it was more expensive. So, we're kind of going in on the, you know, the the regular tier. Um, but
there were songs and, you know, all sorts. It'll be great for homeschooling parents as well. Um, you know, and stuff like that. So, so they did a bundle deal. It was 1,500 for the two um services. Um, so there will be a demonstration of that of those at the
staff meeting as well. Um the I you know obviously book and treat is coming so there has been a lot of support um from different um avenues whether it be from family members to um
folks at the council on aging to the um board of health um you know we had various people help um decorate the houses that we're using for book and treat um which is this Friday evening Um but also the health agent was able to
get a donation of toothbrushes and floss and other miscellaneous items from CVS. Um so you know it kind of expanded on the you know partnership and um you know what we can do you know together. Um
I did reach out to LinkedIn Learning um for a potential purposes potential ser purchase of services. Um it is another kind of educational video um you know kind of database. Um it was formally it was rebranded as that but it formally
was linder.com. Um but the cost for that would be prohibitive for us to be able to utilize. Um let's see. I did submit a grant to the Kingston Cultural Council for adult
craft programming for the spring. Um there was um discussions with um Steve um the reference librarian about the space here in the adult area about um a possible
redesign. What that is um basically looking at is you know moving collections um looking at what we have as standalone collections and their usefulness and whether um we need to you know um continue with those collections
or um you know reallocate them to something else. Um as well as um an ask that I am going to give to the make to the foundation is for study pods. Um you know that has been one of the challenging things here is that you know
currently the only designated quiet study space is in the art gallery which is also the um tutoring space. So it's the art gallery, the tutoring tutoring space and quiet study. Um I call it the
multi-purpose hallway. um you know so by doing this um we would be able to like reuse existing space here um for that purpose I did visit the Plymouth Library because they do have an enclosed study
um pod so there's different styles so basically the three kind of versions are um kind of freestanding walls similar to the glass panels of the the courtyard. They actually look like that with metal framing and what have you. Um so those
are an option. The actual enclosed units and um the other ones were these um individual chairs or booths depending on how big you got that basically it was a seat with the table and the the sides
the back and the sides of those go up 59 inches. Um so that is the option that I want to present to them. Um because one um it is more affordable. It will be easier to maintain because obviously
with the glass panel idea for example even the enclosed capsule which has you know both sides are glass um we don't have a means to maintain maintain those. The cleaning service only cleans movable
glass. So they'll clean the glass door but not the two side windows. Um so I'm opting to you know ask the foundation for for those chairs um instead. Um you know so I'm just going tonight after this meeting there is a
foundation meeting. So I will be p pitching that idea um not making a formal ask but just seeing if they'd be entertaining to that. Um so there is the big kind of you know relooking at space and you know what we
actually need. Um so then looking at the monthly statistics um obviously um you know there was a decline from August into September which is a norm due to you know summer reading ending um and
so year to date we are down year to date um of 3% over where we you know last year's numbers um which obviously you know we have a reduction in programming um you know due to the vacancies
um you know in various positions and things. So um that would be also you know an indicator um of that the um the use of um the hoopla statistics. Um
so year to date we have um invested approximately just under $5,000 um for over 2,000 um circs of various formats. This data that's here will be provided to as part of my um
presentation to um FINCOM and board of selection so that they see what um the costs of digital content you know is and what it's actually costing us to um you know offer those services. >> Are there any questions?
might be nice to label some of these charts in this report. The uh I think it's a hoopla stats are uh looks like images and then not really labeled as that hoop.
But I'm off base here. Please let me know. >> No, you're not off the Christmas card list. >> I'm no longer getting a gift. >> You have to pay out of pocket for >> any other gentle criticism? Not seeing any. and I'll move on to the
um staff reports which were understandably light considering that we have transition happening in both children's and that next month we'll have at least um in tack >> yes >> um any questions about the reports that we did get
seeing any um foundation and friends update so I think the only update they're about to have their meeting for this month after we conclude for the foundation and I know that they are in the process of starting their elf kit um fundraiser that they do around the holidays. >> So, we'll have more information next
month basically. >> Yeah. From them on that because they'll have started I think sales open. So, they'll probably have some numbers for us. And they were featured in Kingston Living. I don't know if anyone got an opportunity to see that. But they're the library and the work of the foundation was featured in
um payment of bills. No bills for us. So, no bills. >> Not in paper. any old business. Just check double checking our next date to make sure everyone has
>> 17. Um, >> sure. >> Yep. I'm gonna be in Korea. I could zoom in. >> Except what time is it in Korea? They're like 18 hours ahead of us.
>> It's 13 or 14 depending. >> Okay. >> 13 like breakfast on >> it could be a valant effort to zoom in but it is an excused absence if you have cross.
>> So it is the 17th. Make sure that's not there. Any new business? Not seeing any. I take a motion to adjourn. I make a motion to adjourn at 7:05 p.m.
>> All in favor?