Welcome to the Kingston Board of Health meeting November 17th at We were supposed to start at 5:00. We now have a quorum at 503. We have George Collins here on behalf of a variance that's being presented to the
board today. And let's take him first so he can move on with his evening. >> Good evening. Uh, for the record, my name is George Collins from Collins Civil Engineering Group. I'm a registered professional engineer
representing Philip Dilio at 94 Elm Street for a uh septic upgrade. Uh, we are not uh upgrade meaning we're not increasing any design flow. It's an existing home. Um, and um would I be
able to share my share a plan? >> Oh, yep. I have them. George, >> have the plans. Do you want to share it so you can point something out to us, sir? >> Um, see here. I mean, uh, it's I guess it's not totally necessary, but um, let's see.
>> Is it going to let him >> or if you're okay with it, I can just explain it to you that I mean, yeah. >> Oh, there we go. We can >> Yeah. So, so basically, um, if you like, I can keep on moving forward. Um, so basically, uh, this property is located
on the east side of Elm Street. So, you got Elm Street here. You got the existing three-bedroom house here. And then something to be aware of is there is an offsite wetland right here. This is the this is the wetland line here. >> Um, okay. >> We had that delineated by a uh a wetland
scientist. >> Uh, this orange line is the 50-foot buffer zone to the wetland. And then this um purple line is the uh 100 foot buffer zone to the wetland. So um we
have uh everything is outside of conservation jurisdiction. Let's see here. Um and what I have proposed here th this these two red lines th that's a that's a that's two rows of straw water which we
use as a work limit to make sure that none of the soils or none of the work um will uh accidentally go into conservation jurisdiction. So um so basically what we did is we went out and we dug two holes and a test
pit here and a test pit here. Um and when we dug down we immediately hit groundwater just a couple feet below the ground surface. Um as a result of that we ended up collecting soil samples um for uh in lie of a percolation test. Um
you know typically we try to pour water and go through a conventional percolation test process but due to wetness uh we had to collect soil a soil sample. Uh so that is one of the uh variances that were before the board with um and then the other thing that
we're requesting is a water table separation reduction. The uh the code allow requires a 4 foot separation from the bottom of the septic system to the seasonal high groundwater and we're requesting a reduction from 4T to 3 ft.
What what it is is the plumbing comes out under the basement slab and we cannot change that. Um so in order to make this work by gravity we had to uh request the variance lowering the system by one foot. And then another thing to
be aware of is that we are not in a water protection, this is not a zone 2 water protection district. Sometimes if you're in a water protection district, um lowering the system by a foot, uh might be a little bit more of a concern because it's in a water protection
district, but this is not in a water protection district. Uh so again, we're requesting a um you know, we call them the local upgrade approval requests. Um and they're basically just kind of pre-stage variances through the state.
Um again for the use of a soil sample due to wet soil conditions and then a water table separation reduction from 4T to 3 feet which will allow us to um make the system work by gravity without putting in a $5,000 pump.
I'd be more than happy to answer any questions that the board agent or public may have at this time. I think it's um what you have here is preferable to a pump because uh electricity fails, gravity doesn't.
>> Yes. Yeah. Absolutely. >> Yeah. These people these people have been here for a really long time and I think they should fix this ethic a while ago, but they're uh they're not moving. They just they just knew it's something that they had to deal with. Is >> there a date restriction on this house?
>> No, not to my knowledge. um they're not looking to increase and I was I can tell you from having walked the um property it's an it's high up in the wetlands are very low down so it seems like it's water
running down their property which is why we're see why we they did the civ analysis instead of a percolation so and there is the slab it's an old house so the moving of the sewer that comes out of the house
would be a monumental task. It's on a slab >> that it goes under the basement of the house. >> Oh yeah, that's pretty. >> Yeah. >> This is This is basically this place >> basically a walk out basement. So there's really no foundation for us to
come out higher. Sometimes we'll manipulate the plumbing and come out at a higher elevation, but um we can't do that with this particular setup >> without putting pumps in. Yes. Without putting in a pump. >> Yeah. >> Yeah. I'm pretty familiar with the
pumps. >> One time. >> Um Okay. So, can I see the variance? Because I didn't see anything on the variance about the >> the civ analysis. >> Yeah. There's a de there's a D policy.
It's the variance number two uh allowing a percolation rate to be established by grain size distribution analysis which is basically uh soil sample or civ analysis let's see I think I can find that because all this variance is reading it
says nothing about >> George you on your what you sent us. >> Yeah. Yeah. If you look right here, >> is it under number one? Is that what you're saying, sir? The variance from section 310 CMR 15212
of the state sanitary code >> which requires that the minimum vertical separation from the soil. This I'm not seeing anything about on this variance about >> this the >> I mean this is it right here. This is it on the plan.
No, but it's not on the variance. >> And then I have the I have the I have the paper I have the variance letter in my hand >> that um I that we requested. >> I don't know if we can see this, but >> Okay, hold on. I just want to make sure
we're taking care of all at once. >> I've never seen anybody go through for a seven on the plan. >> Oh, okay. Okay. >> So, can we amend this to this? >> Do we do we need to? >> I don't I don't know, George. I'm not
sure. I've never seen anybody put through a variance for the civ analysis. They just usually noted on the plan, which I know you've already done. >> Um, >> yeah, >> that's something like I'm just not I've never seen one come through. We we'll more than happy to add it on.
>> Yeah. Yeah. I mean, and again, it's not, and just to be technically correct, it's not even a variance. It's what they call local upgrade approved, >> local upgrade, >> which which are basically kind of like pre-staged or pre-approved variances that the state set up that can just be
approved by the towns, >> right? And that but that usually is through me, not through you guys. I got no problem with the analysis. I was on site when I saw the conditions of the soil. Yeah, that's why it's not on the because it isn't really technically a variance. It's a local.
>> That's why I was just trying to make sure we're taking care of everything. One felt swoop. That's all. >> Yes. Yeah. >> Okay. Anybody have a motion? >> Okay. So, I do you have any other input on this? >> Then we Oh, okay. Okay.
>> Yeah. I I move to approve >> the variance as >> variance as presented in you know the the letter is the governing you know whatever. >> Okay. And I second that. Yes. Okay. >> And now your question. >> Okay. Yes. Yes. Yes. So do you have anything else to add on this?
>> No. I think >> your professional opinion here. >> No. I think this is the best solution for what this the the situation and the topography of the land is. >> Okay. Okay. All in favor? >> I >> I
>> thank you very much for your time and >> thank you for your time, sir. >> Pleasure to work with. She and I she and I worked in Milton together. So, >> you got a good one. And Lori, too. She's excellent. So, you have excellent staff there and they're great. >> We are very lucky.
>> Thanks. We'll send you the 20. >> Appreciate it. All right. Take care. You guys have a good night. God bless. >> Bye. >> Okay. Ladies first. >> Yes. Usually um so you guys know upgrades we don't usually bring to you
guys. I think he was just being extra. >> Okay. Yeah. Okay. >> He's very he's very by the book and diligent. So >> Okay. That's what we like. >> Yeah. Can't go wrong with that. >> Okay. We've passed around the bills. We could send those over to Dennis.
>> And one minute. I was late. Three minutes three. >> No, it's actually I got here go to that clock 501. >> Oh, >> I don't know. >> Um, >> if people would like to take a moment and review the meeting minutes from
October 20th as presented. >> You split your screen. >> I don't know how to do it on yours. I know how to do it on mine. Good. Go to view. Maybe go full screen. Where do I see that? >> No, it is on full screen. I don't know.
That's >> Can you move it? >> Does it really matter? >> Yeah, don't worry about it. >> It's not It's not recording it, so don't worry about >> Lori. I really appreciate you sending the minutes in the email because it makes it easy.
>> Oh, okay. Yeah. Thank you. You're also >> Yeah. Thank you. Make a motion to approve the minutes of October 20th as presented. Okay. Second. >> All in favor?
>> I >> I >> I >> Okay. Do we have anyone here from Suji's Kitchen? >> No. >> Okay. I say we move on to our health agent report then.
>> Um Okay. Uh so health agent report. Um we meaning Lori and I attended the MHA conference last week. Uh there was some actually some really helpful and valuable classes. Um we got to speak
with the tobacco control commission and you get some guidance on good good standard procedures. Um we will be continuing to use Bob Klette as our main agent for ensuring um people are
complying. um also attended um a fats, grease and oils um talk uh Plymouth instituted it and it's probably something that we need to
look at um to come up with D has guidance on it but we may want to investigate it further but that's after the new year project >> fats and oils in regards >> fat oils increases what's being released
into septic or sewer and it's mostly for commercial properties. Um but overall the conference was, you know, useful. We both and we went to different things for the most part so that um we're working on um helping Lori get some more
education in the different areas of what we do so that um hopefully if her the new position goes through she'll be that much closer to being ready to be fully utilized. Uh
the other discussion issues are permitted. So the high school, Silver Lake Regional Schools, both the middle school and high school predominantly occurs at the high school. The middle school could potentially have a booster club that did
something at the high school. Um, we have been I have been working with the principal as well as the head facilities director to come up with guidance and solutions around this because they have
a a booth at the um football stadium, but it doesn't have running water. And so there's some parameters that we need to um follow to make sure that the food's safe. So what we came up with is to do a
once a year permit much like we permit the kitchens in the schools and the culinary arts program that they will receive a permit that covers concessions for the year for the school for TTO
boosters uh the library club the automotive club whoever the students are that have these clubs or parent student groups >> school run school run. It's only for school groups um that they are covered
under this permit to sell preackaged um foods or commercially produced foods. So, they can go to Chick-fil-A and buy pre-done sandwiches or the local pizza shop or subs. That's okay. Um but we've
come up the principal and and myself, we've gone back and forth. We have guidance documents of wearing gloves and what you have to do and labeling food meaning times that you can only have it out for four hours. So, we really looked at ways to make this as easy as possible
um to facilitate them being able to sell food and do it safely. They they can't bring stuff in from home. They can't cook food on premises. So, I'm just looking for the board's permission to um you know, we've working on a template to
get a permit to the school that will cover that and they'll be um we had agreed that 50, but you know, I think given that we don't charge like we're charging oursel it it seems just permit and make sure that each
event anybody who's holding event needs to fill out some paperwork and just submit it to us, but no cost added. They just need to make us aware of the event. So, >> they need to make you aware every time they're running the concession stand for the football team.
>> No, it would be more like uh football will run concessions September 30th to November >> this group will be doing it sports. >> Yeah. And then like if you know the library club is holding a a b you know a
food sale at an event just who it is so we know what group is doing it and because they all have organizers and they're all going to have to fill out for the school. So it's a matter of them just emailing us. There's no >> it's just to track to keep track of
who's doing what. So that's the first one. >> The second one well do we want to act on that one first? >> I think we only have three people here. right now. >> Mhm. >> To make a motion to be for a um fee to be charged.
>> Not charged. >> Not charged. >> I don't think we need it. I don't think we need anybody else here for that. I think >> No. >> And we already don't do it for the rest of >> I don't think we need to do it. I like I prefer not to charge for my benign routine business. It's not
a >> Okay. Yeah. >> So, do we need to do anything or I just >> make a motion? We need to make a motion. >> I'll make a motion for the record. Okay. >> Make a motion for uh to approve the uh what it's not fee. It's a license.
>> The non the non feed permit for the school. >> Non feed permit for the schools >> for the concession stand. >> Concession stands and food related sales >> on at school events. I move the board adopt as policy the health agent's recommendation for
>> perfect nonact language you re >> okay all right second that >> all right >> all in favor >> I thank you >> nicely done >> okay so the next thing is >> can you go back to the fats oils and
grease things so is that something that that we don't typically do have grease wraps already >> no does require grease these straps to be installed in plumbing in commercial
>> situations. Many towns are I'm just telling you the way other towns are doing. I'm not saying that I want to do this. >> Just put that right out there. >> Making requiring commercial properties to upgrade to external grease pumps that generally sit
>> in outside of the facility um that hold the it's usually a 1500gallon tank. Um, and there's pumping requirements. There are like Plymouth does this. There are variances like there are some restaurants in Plymouth that literally
cannot do it because they don't have a space >> for a multitude of reasons. But so there are variances and there are apparatus that can be installed both passive and active. Um, grease straps that go in internally inside of the establishment.
Um, so it's just something I think that down the pike it's is not anything because we don't have that many facilities. It's not something we need to do immediately, but we should look at it and think about how we want to progress going forward. Um, and how we
work with pre-existing businesses to just make sure that the grease traps that they do have installed are adequate >> for what they're producing or not producing and that it's um ensuring that we are not clogging
>> sewers because generally it's sewer related, right? >> The sewer system um I can tell you in Milton that was a huge issue because they can track where the grease is coming from um and it really does wreck havoc. Right. So, like I said, it's not anything that needs to be done, but it
was it was good to go to the the the conference in in that that particular segment because I think it is something that as our sewer expands, we probably are going to need to look at and so it's easier to get in front of things as,
you know, the potential for development becomes more prevalent. We should have those things in place that as new things come up, this is what's required, not so much worrying about what's pre-existing. >> Yeah. >> But again, that's something for after the new year. I'd like to just get through permanent season
>> and maybe at that point also remind people with their septic systems what we don't put down. >> Right. Yeah. We've been actually Lori and I have been talking about um trying to do programming for that like to educate uh town residents about septic
and like what do you do what what are you looking at how does it work that kind of thing so people are like maybe a little more knowledgeable about how things work >> to Janet wait and do a healthy Kingston. >> Yeah. No that would be you know >> an easy peasy way to get them
>> get the message out. So, um, again, that's an after the new year thing. >> Yeah. >> We're trying to hold our head above. >> Our should be too bad because didn't we roll a lot of them so that they were staggered through the year?
>> Some, but this is the bulk of them. So, all installers, all food, the food establishment, tobacco, those are the biggest ones and they also the most complicated ones. >> Um, so just, you know, a lot of due diligence to make sure people have turned in their stuff. Speaking of
tobacco licenses. >> Yes. >> Do you have an update for us? >> Um, yes we do. Um, so we received word back from town council that the two outstanding fines for QuickMart, one
located at Summer Street, one located at the mall. Um, because both of those businesses are now closed. Excuse me, I have the hiccups. Are closed. um town council is saying we would not be able to go and collect on
those fines at this time, but the businesses are closed. So, >> um >> it's kind of an onset. >> Okay. Y >> and the last thing I have is I'm looking to come up with a
this is cookie selling season for troops, >> right? And so we permit for every everybody who does um even commercially produced foods. So like to give you an example, we have Simply Tasteful, >> Tastefully Simple.
>> Oh, Tastefully Simple, sorry. >> Um boxed product that nobody's making anything. Comes prepackaged. The lady takes it out and sells it. >> Okay. >> She pays for a permit. Um we have people that do salt and herbs. We have people that do commercially produced sauces,
oils, and vinegars. All of them are required to have a permit. >> Now, I I don't think it should be the same exact as that because we're talking about a troop of kids that are selling this. Um,
I am looking at putting together a yearly permit for troops >> that allow them to sell in the town of Kingston for whatever the duration of their cookie sales are. Um, to make it
simplified and easy and cost effective for the troops because the troops are paying for this. And my understanding is that out of a $7 box of cookies, the troops get $1. Girl Scouts of America take quite a bit of money off those. >> So, I would like for right now to get us
through the month of December, >> I would like to request that the board approve a $10 permit fee for the month of December to cover the Girl Scout troops to sell cookies in the town of
Kingston. And then I will look at because they're not going to sell them in January. And then I would look at >> why don't we make it a three month >> for $10 to cover the Girl Scouts. >> Okay, that's I could kill that pushbody else. >> Well, no, it goes it goes by true. Boy
Scouts, Girl Scouts. >> Yeah, I expanding the scouts. >> Yeah. >> Um because that will get us through our high of permitting. >> Yeah. >> And it will let them sell their little heart to their hearts content if they can come knock on my door.
that those 10 minutes bring me sad. But yeah, so let's that's fine. And then that gives me some time to put something together that seems >> I want to make it fair and equitable. Um >> but it is is that agreeable to
everybody? >> So are you talking about a $10 permit for the Girl Scouts? All of them? Not just each each little >> Well, that's by the group. This for December it would be whatever troop wants to sell in the town of Kingston. 10 bucks for December, January, February. >> Yeah.
>> Okay. >> I would like to see it become because >> the girls girl scouts of America, Boy Scouts of America, >> they have such a wide >> profit. >> Yeah. The kids the kids the troops aren't getting a lot of the money. They're not.
>> So, if we could blanket it to cover like maybe a $10 fee for all of Girl Scouts and a $10 fee for all of Boy Scout. >> Yeah, that's that's what I mean, right? you know, for each individual organization. >> I know that you have like um what do you
call it? Like um an area coalition that covers like I think >> um I've been talking to a troop leader who did the right thing and came in and was trying to do every like do the right thing, >> right? Um, and I know that there's a Plymouth like head group and
that they oversee like if they control Plymouth and Kingston, maybe somebody else. >> Well, even like the Ducksburg Girl Scouts will sell at Big Y or outside Target, you know what I mean? You'll get the, you know, so >> so maybe it's like each I can talk to
her about like each area coalition buys a fee for the year. That would be I would be really >> I just need something to get me through the next couple of weeks. >> So, let's get through the next three months, >> right? >> That >> the Girl Scout troops or Boy Scout
troops. Um, so should we say local clubs or local troops? >> What do you think? >> Local uh local youth organizations. >> Yes. Perfect. >> I knew you'd have some good words. >> Yeah. Local youth organizations. >> A $10 fee to cover the sale of goods.
Okay. per organization >> and it's got to be commercially produced goods. They can't beating things. Yeah, that's a whole another issue. So, I just want to be very clear on that. >> Commercialally produced. >> Okay. Beautiful. Thank you, >> Lori. Did you get all that? >> Is that a motion?
>> I don't know. I think Dennis, >> I uh move that uh we grant um what was the price of that? We grant a permit to cover >> We grant $10 permit to cover a period of three months to all youth organizations
selling commercially packaged and uh produced products. >> Great. >> Yeah. Second. >> All in favor? >> I >> I done. >> Thank you. All right. That's all we got.
>> Dennis, we have you on the agenda. >> Yeah. just uh with some of the craziness that has been coming out of the um uh CDC in Washington um over vaccine guidelines, I just would like to make a motion that this board will adopt a
policy to uh follow the guidelines of the Massachusetts Department of Republicans. >> I will second that. >> Don't look at me. I can't vote. >> So So if you're seeing that >> Wait, so do we need to do I mean We already do this. That's what we do.
>> Well, this kind of formalizes it a little bit to just kind of uh so somebody comes in with conflicting guidelines. No, the board's policy to follow. We're not going to say board's policy is to follow the ones that are crazy. The board's policy is to follow the state. >> He's saying he's saying that we want it
written down that we are following >> we're following Department of Public Health guidelines. We are not um >> going >> as lenient as the federal guidelines currently. >> Okay. I'm just wondering like isn't that
just sort of inferred that that's what we do as part of the passage of time public? >> Well, traditionally when things are a little less crazy than they are right now, >> uh the state defers uh primarily to what
comes out of Washington, there's very seldom is there an exception, >> right? Now, where there's a divergence between reality and fiction, u I kind of had to clarify the waters a little bit. >> Yeah, I think we just have two differing opinions. But I I should tell you that
if anybody comes in to ask us, meaning myself or Lori, about vaccines, our answer is we do have, you know, now they're over, but we have vaccine clinics, but you should be checking with your doctor, >> pediatric pediatric what they recommend
that we are not doctors. you're not nurses in that we cannot tell you right what you should and shouldn't get but that you know the stuff that's recommended by DPH is the vaccines that we are working with CVS or big Y to
provide >> so that's the guidance that we give everybody >> right >> so I just want to make sure that that's acceptable to everybody in the at the board >> no I I think that's absolutely appropriate because you always want to defer back to somebody's
>> I don't know their personal history. >> You don't know their personal history. You don't know >> you don't know a lot. Yeah. You know, you just have somebody coming in asking you the question. You say, >> you know, you really need to follow up with your own practitioner, >> right? I mean, that's outside our scope as members of the board of health is
that. But the right, you know, way to go is to have talk with your own physician. >> If they ask a specific question about do you like >> No. Well, I always say when you're in people say, "What do you re It's" I It's like, "I do not recommend anything to anybody.
>> That's a personal choice and it's a decision that you and your doctor need to make." >> Um, >> I as the health agent have no purview of what you do to your body. That's between you and your doctor and >> I don't make I'm not making recommend. I'm not a medical professional. It's not
my business to tell you what you should or shouldn't get. Whether I think it's right or wrong has nothing to do with my job. That is a personal decision. Period. I just I wouldn't feel comfortable giving anybody medical advice from a doctor.
>> And this is simply to clarify public policy. That's all. You know, it's whatever our personal opinions may be that those are personal opinions. >> Well, we are the we are a branch of the department of public health. So by that >> by that we are
>> right >> supposed to follow. We're the we're the community face of the department of public. >> Well, and just as we learned during co >> we can we are following mass DPH unless we want to escalate it above >> right
>> the criteria. >> That's right. We can go above and beyond but at this point in time we we are standing in line with the mass DPH I think is what Dennis is trying to >> Okay. >> Yeah. And I mean, I always say if you have questions about what you think, you
can certainly go on Mass DPH and they will they have a a plethora of information about >> Yeah, they have some good they have some good information. >> Yeah, >> I just think that's the most appropriate way to handle the general public. >> Sorry, I have to tell my 11-year-old to eat.
>> So, that's the motion I make for the record. Yeah, >> I will second it >> that we follow that we >> remain in line with massph >> and so would we publish this like
>> on the Oh, all right. Okay. Okay. >> And then it's available if anybody wants >> if anybody's wondering. Okay. Yeah. All right. That's reasonable. >> Yes. I >> Okay. >> There's going to be no other business in >> Hold on. Next regular meeting is
scheduled for December 1st, 2025. >> Any objections to that? >> Nope. >> Anything we want to talk about beyond what we have already discussed? Um, SUJ's Kitchen. >> Uh, I can just tell you it's a they were requested to be present at a hearing
today because they owe outstanding fines for reinspection. Um, there has been repeated violations. Um we are following protocol of inspection and >> um so at this point it's outstanding
fine. I can reapproach it. Uh I mean they were summoned, you know, we sent them a certified letter. They got it. We got their ticket back saying they got it. So they were aware of the hearing. Um permitting is coming up. Uh my
assumption is that no one gets the permit if they owe fees and fines. >> Yep. Mhm. Right. >> Just Okay. >> Right. So, do you know if the condition has been remediated? >> It's an ongoing issues. We This is
reinspection fee, which means we have inspected you. We told you what to fix. You have not fixed it. Still haven't fixed it. You get a $75 fine. So, this will just continue. So, um the inspector will go back. I believe she's going back this week. So, >> okay. So is there concern that the
public is at risk with this not being fixed? >> Um it is issues of non-compliance with requirements uh for managers on duty that are certified as well as improper or no hair
wear, improper shoes. There's a litany of issues. So they just keep being addressed and at this point um you know you I just clarified with you guys that my assumption is that no permits are given until things are rectified and
fines are paid. So um it's the end of the month. It's due January uh December 1st. Yes, Dennis. >> Yeah. One of the things that um we could consider doing make the decision tonight is in a situation like that where there
are violations uh found by health inspectors of a a restaurant or establishment. They may not be sufficient violations to close them down, but they are certainly sufficient
violations to post a notice at the entrance of the restaurant that the restaurant is currently in violation of you live there. >> Be advised that this establishment is in violation of the following code of board of health um requirements. I will look
into the next meeting to see because there's different ways you can do this. >> Okay. I mean because what's the point of having inspections public doesn't mean anything. You know >> it is it is a public record. >> This way the public would know.
>> Yeah. Just be advised eat at your own risk. You know whatever. >> Yeah. >> Uh I think that would be is if I were a restaurant owner and I knew I had a choice between paying this fine or posting that. >> It's not even just about paying the fine. How about do the right thing? >> Right. >> Well, these guys don't necessarily think
that way, but they're thinking bottom line and what it costs and the impact that potentially could have on my business. >> So, I will come up with some >> Yeah. >> possibilities. >> Some research. >> I will. Okay. >> Yes. >> Okay.
>> That would be great. >> Public shaming. >> Shaming. That's not what I was looking for. >> Yeah. Really? That's not really going to solve a problem. >> I make a motion there. There be no other business uh to conduct that we >> second. All in favor?
>> Thank you very much.