I'm going to call to order the uh meeting for waiting personnel. Monday, August the 18th. It is 6:09 p.m. I apologize for the delay. Uh the meeting is being recorded by Zoom. Anyone intending to make an audio video recording of this meeting should notify the chair at this time. Uh items may be
taken out of order at the discretion of the chair. Um the I'd like to welcome Derek um our new board member. Thank goodness you're here. We now have three. Um and I hope my note didn't scare you.
But uh the u uh if you want to tell us a little about yourself, that would be great. Yeah. Um I've lived in Kingston for about four years now. I've been um on the finance committee for about three years. I'm just I'm on my second
term now. Um, so looking forward and the finance committee has no plans to this committee. So stepping up and putting more on my plate. Uh, living in the town with my husband, a dog, and one one
newborn and another one on the way. So, and I think we're neighbors, by the way. I live on Indian Conroy. Okay. Uh, we're about 70. Oh, you Yeah. Okay. Yep. Um, that's great. That's great. I did a full term
in a lot of fun. I'm not under. No, honestly, it's tough. Um, and I can totally relate. So, I applaud you for taking more effort to do this as well. This does not require that amount of time. Um but um we do take it very
seriously from the standpoint of what our charge is in terms of basically the um uh oversight and protection of the waging personnel people in the town that are not in the union. So um the uh you know with Tina's help and with the
administration's help positions get created positions get changed positions get um uh deleted um you know you know the financial condition of the town when we don't come at it from a financial condition um your insight will be very
helpful for that um the uh that's to me is great I'm glad we're a full board it's been a while very much. Yeah. You know, we only had we had one one incident where we disagreed and it ended up going to the board with
select because that's the the uh the nature of the police. Uh what I'm I'm digging here is um I don't know if you read or read about the charge what our charge is. So have you read that?
I've read that. I've read 66 that's from 1966. the original charge. Is it? Yeah. I was not alive. I was alive, but I didn't. I was busy. So, what I'd like to do at some point is make sure that you have
the this because this is the article from the March meeting and uh this is the the actual uh bylaws. But I'll grab it a copy of it before you do it soon. I I'm kind of like a stickler.
No, for for that because once you go beyond the charge, nothing as you know nothing counts if you go beyond your charge. So and and also uh please keep in mind that
we are an advisory board. So um anything we uh do is a recommendation for the select order or a recommendation the town meeting goes on it. [Music]
Um this is not the path and the stop of last resort. We're not the judgment body. We are an opinion and um you know basically however we do tend to flush out a lot of issues and problems so that
by the time we get to those boards um they don't have to deal with um I remember we had one joint meeting with the select board and uh I believe that one of the members gave us about 10 minutes and we took an hour and afterwards uh that member whose
name I sent that said, "I really do appreciate how much you guys should." So, yeah. Um, and again, we work very closely with the administration um
[Music] administrator. I'm not sure. No, thank you. [Music] Okay. because obviously the previous situation.
Yeah, I watched you select the words um for um this person. I'm actually from Texas, but I don't I don't I don't like talking
to Texas. So, where where can you? Um, so I went to high school right on the uh Delaware PA border in town called Penn Square. And then I lived in uh Philadelphia with
my husband here. So many people that you guys Well, I was 25 years old. Okay. Harrisburg. Well, thank you for that. Oh, I've got a cousin who lives in. Oh, really? What's the last name?
Uh, Bieber. I'm not kidding. The last name is Bieber. Okay. Don't know. No, that's I have to think. We call him Beaver. I'm like, wait, is that his first name? His first name is Stephen. Steven Bieber.
Steven Bieber. His wife's name is Joe and her mom's name is Bambi. It's a lot of lot of nature happening. And there we came back here
200. That's nice. Thank you for sharing. Appreciate that. No problem. So, next item. Welcome again. Next item is uh we should reorganize the board. Um meaning that we should uh either take nominations for a
chairman um for vice chairman and um the uh only for the simple reason that um you know just time meeting we have a new member so I believe this uh so I'll open that up to the floor any
um nominations or recommendations I submit myself as vice chair I second that nomination I I'll tell you why later. Oh Lord. No, I have absolutely no problem with that.
Okay. Um any issues? Yeah. Then I will uh make a motion that we um approve [Music] for. Thank you. My chair is uh 27.
Um and uh I submit uh Wait, can we have a second here? Oh, I second. I can make the second and then I I ask for
No, I mean I can make I move that Lorraine vice chair and I'll second that motion and then I'll ask any more discussion. Seeing none, I will ask for a vote there.
Yes. Yes. [Music] We need a chairman. I nominate Jim for the position. I second. Okay. Any discussion?
[Music] Thank you. I will accept this. I do apologize. Um you can be as low as you want. Still don't want it. But um seeing no discussion, I will ask for a vote there.
Yes. Uh Lorine. Yes. Thank you very much. So the board's been next time. You'll always be so No, I'm actually here at half hour really early and I'll have my computer and nothing. So I literally had the stuff on the grill. You called and I
went as I saw and Judy goes, my wife says, "Did you have a meeting?" I go, "Yeah, yeah." She goes, "It's not like you to forget, but I understand why forgot all that stuff." Just crazy. There's a lot of stuff. There's there
is, you know, things put to the side. Well, um I will then take the next item which is our update from Betty resources. So um it's been a while since the last
but um we are currently recruiting for a technology um [Music] also the same that piece of sugar.
Didn't seem like it was all that's okay. I can look it up. Okay. um for slowly but everything. So on the building commissioner um
refresh our memory to look at I know we we had 12 great person left back then we were getting well so we originally
had and enforcement enforcement officer and so then during that person's time here. uh the position of community relevance directors creating that person who did that
condition and that person resigned uh decided to go back to but change them to condition. Um so that is what we hire around the last
doesn't come. So um so that's and the idea obviously was without the lack of activity in the town um in terms of new building construction
and so forth see [Music] so building [Music] commission is basically the building piece of that we still have
wiring electrical problem that all the piece about the uh the development part is it's not together they all accept they all accept
is who oversee that administrator yes and that's what the plan is still going forward great thank you that makes sense for you to Yeah, and that's been part of the final. Yeah, that's part of that too. I just
wanted to uh write. So, basically the status quo is the same. All we're doing is replacing the position or replacing the person the person reestablished. Y that and that person the person would then move on.
So, we don't have it's a vacant. Yeah. Um so we have a silver weight and metrics uh that person um and so descriptions
um it's in the keeping in the dialogue sometimes you have um a shared one. There's certain counties counties I don't there's like um a
shared one but that person um so I put together um you That was something um question description which kind of um not 100% sure but
you know the site is kind of high it seems like compared to them. So maybe I'm not sure. [Music] Does it fall under the same idea? contiguous
town as vulnerable. Um, it wouldn't appear that way. Is there a is there a waiting seal or seal and wakes me person?
I don't know. I mean, there's certain positions and there's honestly certain things that I believe that, you know, quite frankly, the county ought to step up. Sure. And uh you know there's no reason for us I mean I run into this all the time. There's no reason for towns to
have their own well a million dollar pump from it gets used for three months a year when I think the county should have it. It should be loaned out to the towns or or charged out to the town. Uh otherwise it sits in the biggest crime lot because they sit behind the
the highway name should not be used. No exactly. So the you know and this is another type of a thing that once you have inspection scheduled which you don't have a lot of activity I would think that it would be a natural physic
kind of makes sense. You could get something [Music] that's why the light of that, you know, the veteran day where you can use a continuous veterans day
law. Um, can you do the same thing? No. No. But I'm just saying have we looked at that's all. Yeah, that's what I'm saying. It's not necessarily whether the county has one. I don't know that part of it yet. Um but
like I said, uh there are towns who are sharing them. There are towns that do share them out for us. Um so yeah at this point something unless you just
keep it status quo and maybe I don't position it doesn't have to we have to for it jobs we have so um
other on the website there are but frankly if we can get if we can share it within the municipality that would be great because I know it's an obnoxious line item within the finance community that we because we have to There's various elements out.
Okay. So, okay. So, so well the it's a possible we're being updated the activity will continue. Uh you're going to explore. Um do we have a a acting or no?
Okay. I didn't know. I I mean I just I just saw what I saw in the news. What's the departure today? Uh town meeting day. as of right now. Are they looking for a temporary concern? Okay. No, just asking just from the
standpoint because I'm I is this a public meeting? I'm sure the people um and I I'm not asking for anything private. I'm just Yeah. I mean everything outside as you get it you let us.
Yeah. Yeah. Um so uh you brought it up the list. Um uh is looking to partner with to share agent um
services that was talked about somebody I thought we hired we hired a no wants us to work with them it's not us wanting to work with okay because I was going to say what happened with that
yeah no we have phenomen um So we're in province where that may or may not be for personnel other than um if an assistant an assistant office is part of that package it's not
what we talked about before we have an admin we have an admin that in it really should not correct that action. But the the the admin vets agent in our
bylaw was there because the person who was doing it was not a vet and that person was working under a vet agent in a corresponding town at the town at the time and that's why those traditions were created.
Well the ad system should be I I can't argue with that. you know. Yeah. All I'm saying is it was put on our plate and it was put on our plate based on the fact that what we had to work at the time.
Yeah. Um just from the standpoint and now it's going to go the other way. Um so uh the boards that I understand are going to go into county
position. So if that passed then um for this year and so we have a job description that I've been graded because council um [Music]
treasurer tax collector and collector so treasure collector together right as as an appointed position and town clerk now And if they're voted on this the treasurer collector when is that
person when does that transition over to transition it will be right. So it'll be uh fiscal year 27th, right? Because we have because it is something I think is as we get closer to election,
right? Um that's when that surrender will officially be done as an elected position. right now person one person collector and electing.
So once the election happens once the beginning election we will get we will get more um we do more work to start their July function
[Music] Yeah, that's like be my head on [Music] that's already done. So that's development and the board select
considering changing July 26. [Music] Thanks for now that um town clerk is not now we have to create a position. No no position. So we have a child
restriction part of it was part of the parks that was just created. Yeah. You just doesn't move by right and so yes. So 1947 do so that position though has to be presented at spring town meeting
depending on the vote so that it so that all the backup for the bylaw is done right so the way I am seeing that fall do you want
yes we do okay so then we So July 27 when little town for that year but the JHQ the job description yeah the level it's going to live in all that's done
it's done till mean as part of the comp study it's done as far as the comp It was because we accepted study. Um so it'll live I think it's grade 15. So no 11 grade. So they'll live in grade
11. Um the uh but what I'm curious about is we don't have any other paperwork behind it from the standpoint of job restricting Q that we've seen. And all I'm trying to say is before we get to spring town meeting and this is a
warning for all the exposition, I want all the paperwork on time. How many days? It's like 180 days prior. You're supposed to have You don't understand. We get a lot of it at the last minute.
And a lot of it, you know, it's not anybody's fault. It's it's where it all happens. And um this uh perfect example is a director with the the DPW director. Okay. All of a sudden that was nothing but a vote at the end because we had a
vote on it and then it was voted down the town meeting but they wanted it in in the bylaw so that you got past the town meeting it could happen and um you know just to I guess JavaScript
right here is it just providing it I don't even know I've never seen it Right. Right. But if it if it's going to be considered to live in here, I think it needs to come before the board just like any other position
um once the town decides whether they want it or not. I think the DPW Yeah. And I and I do believe honestly I don't want to ever let that happen again. I would have hindsight being 2020 I would have waited. That's my opinion. I know I had I had asked.
Yeah. Now we we had the discussion, you know, multiple conversations and then it ended up in in the uh in the end we wouldn't uh vote for it because we weren't provided with proper
information. So I cannot be clear on the clerk part. I mean the clerk part of it. So okay so I'm getting the information will there be a possibility differently based on the recommendation
you guys you the administration you you may make that recommendation to us I'm I'm opening that up okay I'm not sitting here and saying it's got to be this yeah the don't forget the the the said it was 2017 yeah that was yeah that was my question
no I was more more no that we just did that was hired now more than two years ago but not 17 it's in the paper it's in the paper it'll be in it's more
than it's it's like co 2021 I mean I just remember it being it's been since 2020 2022 November 2022 is from well 26. Yes. So we implemented the change
this fiscal year the 25 was it 23 that it happened in 23 but it was we didn't implement the changes in the spring voted at the spring 23 because you got the No that's not true. No it's the opposite.
It's it was voted in no it was voted in spring of 22 and then we got it after it was flushed through the select board. So what I'm thinking is it relates 26 252 the republic work with them right and then um negotiating
final when November I'm looking at November 1, 2022 because that's when you receive select the study that part and so when I say it's rated that's the
job description of the J not is it isn't the or isn't the requirement outlined by statute though from the state so would it not necessarily change that It would be sketched or
there's also local requirements require um I'm sure the state doesn't have any providing pre [Music] super closer to women but
whatever is Um but just again you want to get this kind of manner the job description the JQ 11 is what you need but you have to look at it.
No, we're going to review it just to make sure. Okay. That our recommendation to the board after it's been approved approved. Yeah. That we because the J and the J and the and the U pump study
is years old. So the environment is chang. So all I'm saying is I'm trying to help you from the standpoint of giving the ability to reopen it again only from the standpoint of you know if they if it gets voted that it's going to be a quoted position.
You want the best candidate. Okay? You know so but I'm just saying that I don't want it to wait till the end. I don't want it to get close to deadline. If it's specialized in October, I want to see the paperwork no later I think than 30 days later with
all the finals so that we can compare it and then give it to the board and say here's our recommendation correct then we have to go in this right because they they have to they got to review the job descriptions anyway. So, uh, if it's a job description from
2022, it's it's can be and it can be. So they you know they do need to review that you need to review that and and if we're not making any changes it would be unless something
that should be happen but again those part as well and so hopefully coping the right thing. Anything. Okay. So, and then the thing that was
submitted for um a challenge an it um why do we need that? We have employees that are doing like two things that are not weed. They're not here. They're not here.
Somebody question. Um, sorry. I don't think No, I get it. But I mean, some of the stuff is I mean, I'll be honest with you, like we knew we knew we weren't going to replace the director
or whatever. It's like you'll be out of place, right? And um you get position go somewhere else. That's not the way it's typically or part of my job. So, so how many people do you think are going to be impacted by the change with
the IT? What do you mean? Not you said that they're they're changing their responsibilities. They have certain responsibility. So, how many people do they anticipate
getting? Oh, no. There'll be one position, right? There'll be one position just like just like any of the one position and you apply for it. Okay. I mean that person too. I don't know you
know um we have an idea where that's the case. U it's funny when I went through some um research see how you know a lot of people don't
have it at all right or they also downsize their IT and so um I've seen the numbers come back as much as 13,000 and as little as 600 but I
that I know again I'm like okay yeah that I just remember like when we had this and I'm not trying to break finance stuff here but when we had this discussion about the decision I go look at consult the whole idea is that he's going to save us money it was it's not
just I think that's the thing every company or town has to go through if you were trying you're trying to get the same services bodies or facilities or whatever to do it and so at some point you have to decide what are we doing
like I've seen and you know we have Yeah. Or why does there have to be such a pilot that that that we have to have somebody on site that the consultant can't be called that and I mean if it's an
emergency I would assume that the consultant has in your contract emergency so much if it's an emergency system. Yeah. Right. so much time, right? Other than that, why can't it wait till the consultant can get here?
[Music] I don't I [Music] certain computer um password stuff, but it's more of a um tech you're not necessarily direct
bubble, you know what I mean? basically onite tech support versus I mean I can tell you from my last on board experience at a company not having one side support was just [Music]
yeah but I'm with you on yeah I get it I can easily see both sides I can see both sides but but I can also see okay so they don't get the service you wait you get the service when the service is available
Okay. Otherwise, you're going to pay for it. Otherwise, you're going to create another petition. Um um you know, I can tell you my initial reaction without understanding the whole thing is, you know, dangerous. I don't I don't have
any idea that I'm looking there with support, but it's only because I'm coming from from a point of, you know, we're hitting a point here where we have had a lot of people in this town since I've been on this board. And um you know I just think it's fine that you know we
can say hey guys I get it. Great. Once we create these positions you're hired. Oh I wish that was true. The point the point is the point is that it's so much more difficult. We have to
ask harder questions when we're creating. Yeah. I think again I think that's all fair and I I understand two points of it. Um and they jump into a lot and whether it's weddings that have to
do with the res employees what have you lot and again our department head might not be doing well but There's still stuff going on, you know what I mean? And again, the legs, the changes
and things, the And it's a lot. It's a lot. And I I agreed. I'm not And again, so for my chair, when I think of my customers, what are the employees going to have, balancing it with, you know, budget, what would the residents
and all that other stuff, hey, at some point say what we service? Oh, no. I've been saying that for three years. I know. But that's and you know and and just so it's on the record I supported to you know increases in your position
for instance and and and stood up at town meeting and made sure that they because I do support you 100%. However, I also have seen these certain things. I don't like siphon petition especially in something that's required as a in the
town you know integral part if somebody use a password and I can see getting an outside person going to be very a situation you describe well and you're not wrong except I could
see it working that way if we knew that they were the person that was like you on this. You know what I mean? [Music] this way you've got the the systems for the trans well
that's a consultant that is an ultimate to me that's the ultimate body needs to be but that's and that's a contra yeah but I can see in situation unfortunately where someone is locked
out of their computer. It's a low it's a low priority issue with the consultant. However, you you think about, okay, what's the amount of time that that happens? You figure, okay, that probably happens to every employee at least once a year. All right, what are we looking at for their average salary? And then
you start kind of doing the math. All right, what is the productivity loss here? And I mean I'm a big my big thing is always like you know when you have a meeting you have to realize that that meeting is taking productivity where it might be going so what's the true cost of the meeting just and that's what I
that's kind of how I be with an IT outage. So to the extent that we need someone here I mean my preference would be to just hire an IT in-house IT again and just get rid of the consultant because literally that's
not saving us any money. That was our reason for a consultant and a stipen position versus an IT position. I mean I can tell you that too pulling my finance. That's true. Yeah.
We're getting like that that's not up there. But I understand again our recommendation was not to have consult. Okay. that is an administration trying so you know I don't want to get away
from that all I'm saying is that um the in the natural scheme of things whoever's responsible for consulting should be this person should be and I if you're telling me it's the town administrator then the town
administrator should come up with a plan that these duties are someone's duties that are already working in the town and and change the duties to offset the violence to rebalance the the priorities so that this one person who is that
expert and or expert enough that they know they can go to code yellow before they call the consult. I believe that is the teenage responsibility and that I I get that and I that has been worked on what happens
and then you know what I mean it's not like I'm gonna be the HR person and I'm going to work on you No, I I I do understand it, but I but I do think this is a management issue within
the town. I do not believe it is a creative position issue. Um and I think it's an allocation of resources issue and at some point in those allocation of resources, but you have to wait. You got to wait. Okay? Because there's only so
many that we can do. I think, you know, making it a priority when I'm not so sure it's a priority when it could be just Yeah. I think when you know when a company goes through you got to figure out how to save money
most companies do before anything and you know when that came up it was great we just won't replace it and then it was okay but again somebody was that the right
I don't think and you know oh no and by the way I'm not saying what I'm based the plan Mr. going outside consulting. Part of that firm could have been to deal with lowlevel issues in the town prior to going to the consultant as
a job responsibility and a balancing responsibility by the administration. That's how I do it. I think and in some cases we've said you know what that person's job changed and probably should pay him a little bit and
we've been receptive to that but but we're not even going there yet. we're going right to a site position or right to an outside position or right to creating another position. And what I'm saying is I'd rather see you go down the road of management in the administration first and then come to us and tell us
that this person's jobs change and they should be possible. So why would you look at that as a possibility? The numbers went numbers went respect when we looked at the job of
design and We never brought it to you all. So, okay. Sorry. Um so happens. But but in most cases as people are at at step fives in their position. Okay. Step five.
No. No. Step five in a grade that to get to the next grade in in in those types of of position. Five or six grade. I'm talking about points. I'm talking about I understand in essence to go to the
next pay scale. It's not that much for the job. No, no, it's not that much of a cost for that job. If it was if if the person, let's just say for sake, if the person's an admin and they're a grade four, all right, for them to get to grade five and
they're in the middle of grade four, that's not a big step. No, I'm not talking about the money. We weren't saying the money was there. What are you saying is not there great points. So the positions so it's not important. It's it doesn't bring it to another
grade. So So it really is something that could be managed and not paid for. Yeah. It's two different two completely different hats. I'm not I'm not trying to wear I'm not trying to wear the paper. I'm trying to wear that. I don't want a position. No,
no, no. I'm not talking about money when it comes to because you're righted by 10 points really $6,000, right? And in some cases, some cases
it's 2,000 and all the bad, right? And so when the reclassification piece started coming through it was that I talked about before reclassifications are a you have so much more work to do the level of the work right and so now
you have a position that begins you know 15 grades grade 10 and you add more grade 10 work your job isn't going to hell you got that doing a job or job at Right. And so that's the
piece of okay those additional things are missing. So you get back an IT manager. Sure. You're in danger of paying more but you're not going to have a consultant perhaps, right? Or do you come up with a second position? So that becomes added on to whoever is capable
of doing it as an official position to what they expect to do. No, I think we're both saying the same thing and and all I'm saying is that in my head the direct point would be to manage it first. If you can't manage it,
then turn around and by manage mean create a position but may possibly get reclassified or possibly up for discussion and current position. If that can't be done then um and I don't believe I've heard any discussion about
that except for right now mean to bring it there can't get there why we couldn't get there as administrator this mission to be created because the plot the caliber of the work has changed
because of these additional pieces it's not it's all the same level of knowing experience and responsibility all those other things it's just 25 things instead of what you know I mean even like when we talk about um treasure collector
stuff right collector are equal in what they're dealing with now you make it one position the quantity is skill services right and so that's why it's the same rate that but that's also why assistance were
created and additional adins were added for those office for the ability to track for the business right for the ability to that's why payroll that moved out for moves back and and you know what I'm saying in other words that's managing that's
changing the task for the amount of time or resource that you have and I believe this is in that same category and that same idea and all I'm saying is I want to see it all those positions be all those situations be toxic before we talk
about it at least that's my what the rest of the board looks too there but that's my and and having heard that this position for this classification part again but that you're looking at a
totally different question may the answer may All right. So, um Derek has a job. You're the person. So, for for Derek
Circle, he's going to be taking up the stuff for a certain time. Um trying to wrap my head around that. Um I mean I think it you have somebody in your additional
responsibilities on a regular basis then that should be considered in your I don't but well how do you how do you how do you strike a note uh to to say okay you get $9,000
a year in a stipen but you've only done it now right that's you That's something that's the management. So I think right so I think of the I think in the [Music]
I see studies as these are positions that based on the amount of work to not be added on to somebody else's job that
originally standalone it was That's not something. That's something here. That's a different but that's what this is. It's the regular little stuff and then the regular big stuff and they don't add
up. Listen, you know, they're hurting somebody by getting that, you know. Okay, Jack now. want to have her on income as a but she's only eligible for the statement.
So it just seems to me that I know I'm trying to think I'm trying to figure it through but it's just I think it's a complicated website. So there are here and boards a record not a record in
typical union there's union and part of that responsibility all that stuff okay but that's been baked into their true job okay admin also does the
thems [Music] based on all of those pieces, right? But now you take away a position and you say here's the pieces that you have to figure out how to deal with on a day basis. So
just shoot. No, I mean again I I you know when I when I put a food company like we got a position sometimes that doesn't go away. So when this guy always say you can get you can get away with you can do away with XYZ fulltime
position be ready for people that are speaking on those roles they want or expect more money. Sometimes what happens in the industry is you take away that person and we don't a position to say listen that person condition was
costing us $100,000 but we're going to give you a $7,000 bond and here's some additional things you're going to do that doesn't happen or didn't happen and sometimes doesn't happen in the real world either but those types of things that still those still need to be addressed and yet there are some things
that are still with um procurement, right? So, we had an ATA who also did. All right, we need to do whatever positions going away
position. Money's too tight. Don't do that. All right, fine. Add that to the TA. Right. And so, I think when you start being away positions, the service doesn't I think what I've done over the years that survey is containing that
fact that that budget source is no longer associated with the fund. I'm sorry that the work is not here anymore because there is work and people are taking it on typically as a mechanism to give that person more money
for a new job is you know admin and we're going to come up with how that looks but then they want to have a class because they can request a reflex which that happens. So let's say uh this
employee is doing stuff and then all of a sudden oh you're going to take a lot of that on a so they have the right to pass up so that they have so they always have that option
what I'm saying for those we certainly request have been have requested that we go through the usually what are we blah blah blah it doesn't it doesn't bring it up it's
quantity at the same level for I was expected to file now I'm expected to you know you know what I mean if that isn't necessarily there I'm yeah so just and so if someone were to
say, okay, they have their, for lack of a better term, day job, and then they come in and they start getting a stipen. So, their class for 35 hours on their day job and say and say the amount of work with the stipend is 6
hours. Are we then expecting them to be putting in 41 hours a week or so the stipen works, right? We do have employees that we have employees that I full employees that an executive secretary job is just job right it's like tied to anything right
and so we have made it clear to all of them union salaries wherever you are you are working 35 hours a week and whenever you get that other stuff you get other stuff and so you know if it's a matter of
sometimes you know I have a question okay so now I focus in addition to being the HR director, I want them to just like you said. So if someone at 10 o'clock after I just, you know, did an employee relations gab um someone
comes to me and done, okay, let me go downstairs and take care of that. My HR stuff still might so I'm going to be here. Right. Right. And so what we've said to the hourly employees are like 35 hours or
whatever department you're assigned to. You have the self thing you're doing on your own time sit at your desk but you're doing me on their own time. So it is a matter but that every day because almost everybody has more than
35 hours left to do whatever they have to be there. you're expected to do those. I go back to what are going to be doing a one and a half person job. But the and the issue I also had was that if this is
a person in the town that is currently working in town, they will go or they will take time away from their current position to go handle a test to go handle a computer and they have they have to because otherwise they have to because the
service will go away if they don't. But then they and then they have to then they have to do their regular work too. Well, the town closes, the office closes on a Friday. How's that person gonna do it? Okay. So, that's why that's another
reason why I wanted management and not this stipen. Yeah. Um I'd rather I would have rather you come and said we're looking to hire another administrative assistant and not tell me they were going to be it. Okay.
and and I would not get to you. It's already in the bylaw living there. Yeah. You know, so um but uh but no, I I I can see nothing but problems with if you took a a a person that let's just say
you took somebody out of office just right to elections. Okay. and we're we're running an election and they're busy as all get out and all of a sudden uh Joey over in the senior center can't get that. She's got to stop what she's doing. Okay, which
could be timesensitive from the standpoint of turning in ballots, turning in results to run over to the senior side. Okay? No, I don't want to see that. I don't agree with that. I think that's a management issue that can be handled with administration through the town administrator. That's just my
position, my opinion. Okay. And that's one of the problems I see with uh outside person, the time it takes the person to get here. And if and if it's a a $7,000 stipen or $6,000 stipen, equate that into what the how the priorities that person has. You know, I'm a
commission guy. I only I eat I eat what I kill. I do not if I don't sell, I don't eat. Okay? So, I have priorities. People are more important than I answer to. And there are people that I only see maybe once every two months. Okay. And if that person once every two months
calls me with something that requires me to go, I gotta wait. Okay. I'll try to like heck to get it done through email. I like heck to get it done on a phone call. I'm not going to give away the other more important stuff you go to do. It's the same thing and and the clerk
position exactly. And the same thing could be in planning. The same thing could happen in the same I could see the problem. person that I'm not saying that is so I think your point right so if it's
something from the tree we would have to be understanding purposely like I mean again you know with the type of positions don't necessarily come into the office right they don't they're expected to have their own setup right and so would it be a position where you
say yeah your IT help you got to be on call because if something happens in the middle of the day to that person I don't know but you know um no I hear what you're saying I I just think I personally think it's
instinctive um to that that thought process and I don't think that the uh balancing of duties on the admin the administration side it bothers me that that's been that's you We did this, you
tried this, we did this. And the reason the consultant is not working and penalties on the end of all of that stuff because they're having it's not a bunch
of stuff and not just in this area. There are other areas that don't exist anymore and work to stay there. But but and also is there others in the towns where It may make sense to get a
junior, you know, these these IT things necessarily that bad that we couldn't make a oneird like when we did with the administrator where where they they worked for the select board a piece of time, they worked for the administrator for a piece of time. So my thing is if
we're going to go down the route of you know I again if you're going to go down the route of one success and accomplish then it's going to end up being any more bring
I mean I know the bull chief's going to want more more staff and then if you're part of roll and go some because I think there was an open record like assistance here too if Yeah, he had they were redoing the system and it was a big amount of money on the
board when they were trying to update their Yeah, providing insurance support for public record. I guess I was there. Yeah, but and again so with with police they actually fired you positions
but I don't know exactly what what the chief is asking for related to the other system. I think that's more of a IT director or manager police all of that is priority.
Well, it's priority but it's also very right and so yeah I don't want to go into something that so the question is there are a couple starting positions they said has a fire
who does at sometimes police um that point about well we're going to be having individual departmental IT people who we have just one day a week just one because you're
you're double batting on the money and the sipons uh and they can walk away from their office go to the bike and say okay let me fix it he's not putting anything to the back he's not to the
back burner because that is his job so there's no penalty I mean I mean it's not an answer but it's just no I absolutely And again, I'm not good enough, but having
it I think over time as we develop the world because again facilities and so when it build up it eventually they became part for a long time it which I think is true. I think it's been a valid reason. It wasn't a person
thing. It wasn't like it wasn't any of that stuff. It was more of a you know, oh had that before. You know what I mean? Yeah. You know, like I said to somebody today like well before meeting, you know, for HR um
you know what I mean? stuff on there and have the keys to the bunch of command. Anyway, I say all that because great if there's a work there that we should bring back. Perfect. If there's IT work
and I need this department [Music] back, sure. I I think we believe in Well, I again Yeah, I don't want to beat the issue. I
I just feel that um I for one will be very u looking at this with a very dry eye as far as what I will look at. And the reason is you know with the development with
computers and the what's happening from the standpoint of the AI and so forth this should be getting easier and if it's not getting easier why and I'm not either all right but but the
idea of the reason I like a consultant is that leaves my end game where I want to do. What I don't like about the IT manager is that's a condition. We're going to get married. It's going to be they're going to be in
the it's it's a lot harder. I from a finance perspective, I can tell you that we are already over what we were spending on MIT in Europe. So consult using a consultant. So I mean even fully loaded
I'm thinking like fully loaded it might be it might be comparable but I can't so and it sounds like based upon the need for this position we are not their priority with the consulting company if if we're having if this is now a need so
I would prefer to have someone who knows our systems and knows our needs and dedicated Yeah, that we've been down that road. And the last model that you had that had
it did work did not only not work, it failed miserably. And um the last the last model we had with an IT manager was not a very good model. There was nothing but complaints, nothing but problems. I mean, you can talk to the
departments and I've talked to them. Okay. And I disagree. All right. I think that in this world when you are talking about, this will be the type of position that if you go out and try to hire, he's going to come back and say, "I need a level 10." Yeah.
Step 10, grade 11. I mean, grade 11, step 10. And to be honest with you, I'm very lucky if I can get anybody for that. And and the problem boils down to that that I think you're just going to chase your just what I saw. I saw this within the last
three years. Now the consultant cost and us not being a priority that's in the energy that the consultant cost. Okay, I I hear that. But what is our what is our excess levy capacity now? Two grand to pay,000. Yeah. So I, you know, I look at, okay,
are we really getting I think we're paying about 150 right now for the consultant. So I think, you know, are we really in a position right now where we're not in a position this was this was build to the finance committee. We're saving money. This is a smart financial move for the town and okay,
it's not a smart financial move for the town. So then that brings up the next question. Okay, is this a better move for the town from a performance standpoint? And you know, I can't speak to what it was like prior to that. I haven't spoken to the departments or
anything like that, but this to me is indicative of the fact that it was not good from the performance standpoint. We're going to have something. That's just that's just how I see it. And I I agree that could be just a and there could be you look up
consultants online. So go get another one. It's not that easy because the consultants the consultants build out their system. That's why people are stuck to the software that we're using. The systems we're using is really okay.
They are typical systems that are used in a lot of times. I guarantee there's customization that has gone very first of all the system doesn't let you do that much customization. Okay. And put modules on it too, right? it won't
allow them. Okay. So, I I I understand what you're saying and I see the point from the from the financial side of it, but I also see that I think there's another answer before that system is completely gone. And that other answer is if you are a small fish in a big
pond, don't become the big fish in the small pond. Go find another consultant to mean something. That's a management. And I I think that that is definitely an approach to take. But I'm just saying that the way that this was sold to finance was this is a money saver and we
are at a point now where that's when I was leaving and we I was there from some of that discussion and I agree with you 100%. Um and uh and my theory and I probably said it at the meeting is that no one no one gets out of debt that
doesn't work 30%. notebook. Whether you're a consultant or and and you can look at trash haulers that have been hired by municipalities when they had their own trash. You can look at sewer systems that are run by violia, okay, versus when they ran them
themselves. You can look at water systems. I mean, I deal with these guys and I see no one gets out of bed that does 30%. The key is can they brought the expenses enough so that they can make the the profit the the consultant
on the computer side is that as as systems are getting less complicated. I and I don't think you're I I don't I mean systems are not getting less complicated. I I mean I would argue anybody trying to figure out
AI at this point in time has no idea what they do. I don't even think Sam exactly exactly I mean the most recent the most recent roll out of chat GPT is telling people that well not that but it's telling it's
basically feeding mega megalomania grandiose so it's not but you got to be careful if you're dealing with consultants what are you loading into exactly but But I do think you know to
your point if it can be managed better one thing right one thing I don't want to lose my system because I don't want my next question what happens when [Music]
they leave and when they leave you're stuck that's the problem every company makes that same mistake with prop proprietary software all right So I I that's why again I think the more uh general it is the more uh uh not outside
the parameters but then if that means we don't offer a certain service then that needs to be decided but that's how that's where I think the problems are is it and and like I said I
I've watched the IT experiment before they change to the consultant this isn't the right one I agree be 100% as far as the price goes. What you're telling me based on what she was being paid in the bin benefits is not
because I knew she was making also profit. So um it's not an extra positive time. Now you're not getting service. That's a different discussion. So who takes care of that? The person who owns and that if that's the town administrator, the mask will make sure
that that's you know where where I sit. Um the uh I I appreciate what you're saying. I just think that looking at those numbers and going through that, I think there's some quality behind it that you might want to take a look at.
Yeah. And that's and I mean that's something that given my finger. I don't I don't think so. Well, it's not even I I would just advise because that's I tease the hole. It's a big hole. Yeah. Okay.
um you know, no and neither I'm not saying I'm a parent I don't but but you know um I just think that that and I'm done beating a dead horse but I think honestly I don't want to see a
petition stipen or otherwise I if all it's going to do is hide a problem right that person's going to leave you because of whatever without having some kind of change positive. Yeah.
Yes. Oh my god. success and it really does stop a lot of problems. I think that that's one of the flaws
because there is no succession planning. Yes. Yeah, that is a super management. Awesome job. But you know, sometimes you can't do secession planning because you have no respect. Yeah. Um that's it.
That's the HR. One one thing to add, um the state and municipal sealer program, provincial standards compliance. Okay. Um will allow contracting for our municipality. So interesting.
position. So if we can share because apparently it's an option for under 20,000 residents. So [Music] yeah, that's an awesome little piece because I
need to carry again. So it was a side. Yeah. Well, no. If if you have somebody [Music] contracting out to somebody, that's fine. But if you're sharing with sharing
benefits with two municipalities, then the compensation was paying. No, you would just get a charge and let them roll in. Yeah. You know, like with the way it worked with Plymouth is I think we paid them $5,000 to uh use
their leg what they paid their benefits they gave and all that stuff. Yeah. This this is I believe out of the these are state employees. So I somebody Yeah. Exactly. Exactly. So then then
it's Massachusetts probably. Gotcha. Thank you. This has been very interesting. I know. I'm serious. I'm serious. So, what was on the grill before you uh before you left with us, Dave? I said, "They're going to turn back into
now." I said, "My wife said I said I said uh it's out there. I got to go." And she goes, "How do I turn it off? It's off." So, it's right. No, I just that's silly.
We'll be fine. So, okay. Well, Tina, thank you. I appreciate it. All right. I uh I know sometimes I can be difficult on certain things, but I appreciate but one thing I always appreciate is the
conversation from your side because you do bring out points that and I hope I do the same. That's what I like. Um so this here is the Okay. So I'm going next item is review the draft of open personnel bylaw for
FY26 prepared by the executive secretary incorporating voting changes at an annual found meeting. So uh Jennifer emailed that to all of us. Um I didn't look at it. I had no changes. Uh did anybody else have any? No, everything was fine. Did you get a chance to look at
I did. There were a few things that I kind of noted in there. Um and I don't know if this is something that needs to get brought up elsewhere. Um, so for like FMLA leave, it's actually since I just looked into it, it's 1,250 hours as opposed to 1,200 hours. I don't
know if we have a different policy in your town. What you have to work is,250 a year. Yeah. What's on there? What's on here is 1,200 hours. Oh, so you're saying Okay. Okay.
Oh, yeah. Then I definitely take a look and say, you know, if you see three things. Yeah. So, that's a good thing. Just let us know. It's good that you picked it up. Yeah. There were a couple of other ones. Um, housekeeping. Yeah. It's really just like housekeeping things.
We do it all the time. So, it was like one thing about jury duty. Um I didn't know if we wanted to add something about the Massachusetts Domestic Violence Lead. Um that we I think that was passed in 2025. [Music] So
there's I don't I'm not saying that applicable there are certain laws that don't [Music] for example um the state has uh so
there are certain things but I want to say majority is right well um the there's a parental there's like an 8week parental leave policy in Mass. I don't know if that applies to municipality or not. Um and then there was
um oh the I wanted it says that it the grievance policy ends when you get to the board election. Can they still pursue grievances outside of that though? They can go to court. Well, that's the only Yeah, they can go
to court. But no once the select make it decision they stop. Yeah unions have um higher piece but okay yeah okay but yeah in wage of personnel at end yeah and then the other thing was um
exempt employees it says is not regulated by by the provisions of the fair labor standards act. So I work in regulatory compliance so this is my nitpicking here. Technically, they are registered. They are regulated by the Fair Liberus and Standards Act, but
they are exempt from but they're they're they're covered by it, but they are exempt from provisions based upon rules within the Fair Labor Savings Act. So, that needs to be ruled out the bylaw. Just clarification. Just to clarification. Yeah. In other
words, exactly the way Derek said it, we'll take it up by a later meeting that the the sentence regarding Fair Labor Standards Act in the bylaw needs to be looked at. And then we'll come we'll make that an agenda item and we'll come
back and um uh put some language to it so that we can take it to as a bylaw correction. [Music] Yeah. And that was all good pickups. Appreciate it. I'm glad you hear that. Seriously, you know, sometimes we pick them up and
sometimes we don't. But this is what we do all the time. It was just trying to make that a little No. And I I mean I work in regular work and buying store banks. So reading statutes all day long is kind of my fun like hobby.
Okay. And I made it. Who wants to come hang out with me? We'll get the federal register out. I want to regulatory. [Music] I love stuff.
All right. Um, not seeing anything as it relates to the past town meeting. I would ask for a motion for approval of the wage and personnel of for FY26 as path of town meeting. So,
yes. Any more discussion? Second. Good. Thank you. Uh, I'll ask you to vote, Derek. Yes. Lorraine. Yes. Jim, yes. Excellent. Yeah, I read that through things. I had a list of all the things we changed.
Perfect. Thank you very much. I'll send it to June. Yep. And then that's off your plate. And then, um, bylaw amendment request. I think that's I'd like to see that on every one of these agendas quite frankly. Yeah. So as as an agenda item
um discuss amendment request either receive the fall meeting or Yeah. Do we have any fall time? So the IT is for fall time. But then that's Yeah. I have Do you have email?
Uh or you discussed it? No, we've discussed it. We're not we're not we're not gonna vote on it. No, I would assume you still Well, yeah. I'd like to and and um the
I'd like to hear what the plan is from the standpoint, not necessarily the who, but the what from the standpoint and then what that what we're doing. I don't think I didn't think this was going to be a side meeting. I thought I
know you guys. So, that would have to be September. Yeah. November 18th. I'm sorry. I thought it was October. I actually thought I got moved to October. I'm just reading what's on top of the stop here. I thought it was October. Okay. October.
Yes. October 25. The the deadline that's currently July 2015. That was it. That was it. So, well, I never received any deal. So in the September 15th,
do you want um whoever wants to bring this forward is how I'm going to leave it because keep me on. Do we have a vote for the September? Not and I'll remember. Yeah, sure.
Do you want to speak or I mean I was talking to [Music] um Usually I see what you tell this and then he said this
watch the recording probably does. All right. So you've got 50 any um just email about [Music]
Yes, I'm sorry. What was that? I'm sorry. Uh there was an email that filed council said unless it's an emergency once they're supposed to email. Yeah,
I don't know. So I So yeah um I was on an email that went out to department heads. So it sounds like the questions that come up. Yeah. Well, normally we don't. I can't even think of the time we did. If we had
something that came up last minute, we would take it as a last minute. Yeah. Um and andor there have been times where we post postponed it. Um You wanted me to add
Yeah. Right. Monday and and the banking plan. All right. Um the uh minutes from April 7th and April 23rd. Um I would ask you to refuse since you're right here. Um Lorraine, have you looked at those?
I've read uh both sets of meetings for April 7 and April 23rd and I move to approve both sets of minutes both in session April 7 2025 and April 2025 as written.
I'll second it and I'll ask for the um Lorraine. Yes. Jim, yes. Thank you. So there's been you made notes about the agenda for September the 15th. Um, so I think that's unless there's
something else for the group that they want to put on the agenda for September 15. Now Lorine is going away, right? I don't think so. Unless it's something that's really planning on
anymore. I just want to know that I'll be out of touch for the couple weeks before. So anything I do is gonna um the 15 my husband is traveling so I will be
remote unless you want me to bring in a screening six and a half month. I would love it wants it. I love I really do strive to be very efficient
and needed. This is very very weed but typically we're not here. I'm not. We're not here at this hour. Okay. But we typically don't have long meetings that that sometimes there's a new issue, right?
All right. And but um but no, remote's fine. I'm I almost was about to just go finish and jump on the computer, but I didn't. I'm five minutes away, so I can't. You can't remote from from [Music]
No, I would have turned around and made you the temporary chair, but I could have been vice chair. Yeah, you have a vice chair. So, you could you could have held a meeting. But I don't know. Why? She was voted vice chair. No.
He reordered tonight. Yes. No. No. But the reorder tonight, right? Yeah. She was vice chair. She was my boy. It was a real reorg. There was a reorg that we did two years ago. You made
less. We made the rainbow. Okay. I'm not going to argue. Okay. That's fine. That's fine. That's fine. That's fine. I'm here. Yes. Right. Again, just so I know 9:15 is the meeting date. Are we changing?
I have no problem with the 9:15. I I don't anticipate a problem. You're going to be away. He's going to bring both. Oh, no. I mean, I'll be here, but I will have a kid like right here next to me. Husband is gone. So, that means you will
be better off at home. And we are doing Yes. The meeting will be 9:15 at 16. 9:15 and Jennifer really good at making sure you get copies. So
Okay. Yeah. I already Yeah. I got a lot of fun. So you're exactly I said more than what you said. Yeah. Okay. But that's fine. And then I
reached out for more because I was like this is meaty. This is this is more interesting than regulations for any other topics not reasonably anticipated. He says good night.
All right. Anything else? The good bit of the group as it relates to the agenda. Okay. Questions? No. Although, oh, the police department now does inspection of children's car seats. Oh, I think they do.
Make sure to make sure they're qualified. Yeah. So, for everybody watching at home, I'm feeling I know. I'm really excited about that. Fire department. I know the fire department. And I know and and sad because I had two brand new
car seats for grandchildren that we used once, but they sat up in the in a bag in the attic and they went past their date. I had to throw them out. Literally once. I bought them when they
came and I used them once and I I felt so bad because I wanted to give them to somebody. Yeah. And you I didn't you just so I completely transfer station. So what do I do with this? My disposable
and they're not cheap. No, they are not. Um All right. I will ask for a uh motion to return. and open the meeting at 7:47 p.m. I second. Okay, I'll take the move.
7:47 [Music] 7:42 I apologize. [Music] Second I will motion amended motion there. Oh yes.
Yes. I'm talking about parcels.