Okay. The time being 6 pm on the 6th of October 2025. I call this meeting at the capital planning committee to order. Let's begin with a roll call vote. Keith Ember I >> Chris Brewman I. >> David Fuller I.
>> Okay. On to announcements. This meeting is being recorded. Anyone intending to make an audio or video recording of this meeting should notify the jar. If none, this committee still has a vacancy for a Kingston resident. If you or anyone else you know may be interested, please reach out to Kingston's finance committee. You can
reach them by email at binccomsonmma.gov. That's fom kingstonmma.gov. Anyone else have any announcements? All right, we'll move on to meeting
minutes for April 9th, 2025. >> Second. >> Okay. And we have we move those with um the ability to make edits after this meeting. Formatting came out a little wacky. So, all right.
>> Yes. Sure. >> Okay. All those in favor? Heath? I >> I >> Chris I. >> All right, we're good. It's done. >> Okay, we have an appointment with Street, Trees, and Parks to to present a
request to replace equipment. And with us, we have Kathleen Barrett, well, Sean Turner from the Street, Trees, and Parks Department, and Kathleen from finance. Um just a summary, we looked at replacing this vehicle um for the last
Springtown meeting. Um we had to hold off and um it's looking like maybe it's not going to last. So John, over to you. >> Yeah. So basically we just we tried for it in the spring and because of the
budgets and with everything going on we needed lifts as well and the vehicle lifts were a little bit more important because at the time you know we got to get the vehicles fixed. Keith had a discussion and asked to put this off until FY 27 and I was crossing
my fingers and hoping it would get us through the season, but with the amount of repairs and the estimates we have to repair it now. I just it's putting good money into bad for something that's going on 15 years old.
So, we just basically looking to replace the 14-y old machine that it works for four seasons. It sweeps in the spring, cuts and mows in the summer, and it also does all the sidewalks in town. >> Just to give everyone a little clarity,
the mowing is like the heavy field mowing. like strip, a bay farm, Kalista farm, that those kinds of >> Well, those we do in the fall for conservation, but in the spring I have to do the landfill cap >> and we have to mow the landfill cap to have it inspected by our engineers for
the EV. And if we do not mow it, they will not go up and do their thing for the EV. So, I have to mow the job for me. And then, you know, starting around May or June, once everything leaves out, we're cutting all, you know, 67 miles of
roadsides and cutting along sidewalks and developments. It's just this machine. It's just something that you just can't go out and do with a regular lawn mower or a pair of loppers. >> Is the mower head still in a state of failure? >> Yes, it is. >> Yep.
I've attached in here. I just I simply attached some picture of the the different attachments that it has just so everybody can see. So we have a new snowb blower. So all the attachments we have are compatible with a new
machine. So the snowb blower attachment still in good shape. The field mower is still in good shape and the broom is still in good shape. We have to replace the flail mower though. The problem with the oil mower is just driving down these roads for 14 years and the constant
bounce and just >> the boom ploom extendable arm that holds it. You can hit the side of the street. >> Yeah. Will extend out about 8 ft beyond the edge of the road to cut everything back. But that just it's taken a beating in the 14 days driving it down the road.
>> And you showed me when I went there to go look at it a bracket near the bend. >> Yes. >> Sort of supporting it. But yeah, I had a few pictures in there. So, the uh retention pins that hold different parts of the arm together are starting to fail. We had one fail already. And that
was about it was in there somewhere. That was about $1,400 just to replace one of them. And there's about 12 of them on the machine for the retention bins. >> So, if one's going to go all the rest are original. >> They're all original. Yes, they're all
14 years. Yep. Now, there's no substitute because the yellow sweeper you have is for the road, not the sidewalk. Most what that machine does, it's not like there's a second, there's not a second machine. Not like if you lose a six wheel dump truck, you've got several
others that you can use and it means the job done a little slower. >> With the amount of roads that are in town, a second machine would be ideal, but we don't have that. >> Yeah. >> So, we're relying on this one to cut the whole town. Also, in the winter time, this is the only machine that will fit down the sidewalks because it's so
narrow. So, without that, none of the sidewalks are going to get done. >> You do any of like the finish work sort of, that's the right term, in terms of snow removal and parking lots, getting into tight spaces. >> It can. It can like over at the senior center, we
>> were talking about some other equipment to do that too. >> We use it. Yeah. I mean eventually that maybe a skid steer or a smaller machine, but for right now that will get into tight spots in like handicap that the plows can't get into. So yeah, we do quite a bit. I mean, this
thing's always moving. Not so much in the winter if it doesn't snow, but in the spring or something, it's out every day. >> And one of the things I thought was interesting, you showed me the joystick replacement. So, the operator has a a
joystick to operate the equipment. And you said the original had failed. >> Mhm. >> They don't make the original anymore. So, you have to buy a new one, but it's compatible. >> But how much did it cost? >> It was about $5,000. >> So, is that the way a lot of the parts
going? >> Yes. >> Over time is you could find something, but you're going to pay, >> right? Yeah. That's like I I included in here. Our most recent one was a quote for Let me pull that up. So, the most recent quote was $17,000
the clutch pump. So, to do the clutch pump, they have to take it up to CM Wood. They actually have to split the machine in half >> to replace the clutch pump. >> Yeah. So, >> so it was $17,000 which >> our mechanic worked on the shop >> when he was working on he can't do the
other things that he was assigned to do. One of the things he was working on, he showed me, >> do you guys remember, >> but I guess you weren't here, but we were doing the uh replacing four trucks at a time. We sat in this room with Paul Basler and um the fire chief was on this
the he was attending remotely and we talked about purchasing these four trucks and what can we do to keep salt and snow corrosion from occurring underneath. He mentioned a pro a product that he was was it Woolwax? >> Wall wax which >> the mechanic has been applying to the trucks with using the new lift to get underneath. >> Yes, he does.
>> But he when I was there it was stopped, >> right? >> Because he's working on the machine. >> Yeah. >> And you told me $250 to $300 each way to tow the shop if we can't handle it in the house. >> Um >> Yeah, that's include anything else. The
diagnostics are 200 an hour, >> you said. >> Yep. And then labor materials are just added on top of that. >> Oh yeah. I mean it just alone just to fix that. So the part the collection assembly is $5,800 but the labor alone was was 10k just for
the labor. >> And that isn't that is not >> that problem. >> That is as of Yes, it is. That was as of September 10th they came in >> because when I was there the day before the first day of school in August >> you weren't able to get over and mow
that section of the KIS field. you guys do. You had told me we were 8 to 9,000 into this thing. Keith mentioned it to the selectman at one of their meetings. I think he estimated 10. So I don't know if it' gone up, >> but we had spent we had since July >> was like six weeks worth of work.
>> Like six weeks, it was like $10,000. So then we had that new issue and they came out and diagnosed it and it was now at $17,000 additional. So you'd be looking at, you know, almost $28,000 in repairs over the course of two and a half months
on a 14y old machine. And the life of these machines, if they're maintained properly, is anywhere from 12 to 15 years out of one of these machines. So >> we're 14. >> So Paul put it in to replace it when it would be 15.
>> Yes. you were looking at it as we were getting there and it didn't >> these repairs were going to start coming across. >> I actually had a feeling if we simply had the money we wouldn't have delayed. We would have placed it at the annual town meeting. I think we were reluctant to go along but I think we could see he was reluctant to pull it from the capital plan.
>> He was he was very reluctant when he called me. He said I hate uh ask you this. He said but with everything going on and other ass you know he says do you mind putting it off till FY27? And I went like this. I said I'll try. >> Yeah. to get the season through it. And
>> you know, thing that concerns me about winter is that you said any time of the year it's hard to find a rental available. And if you even do find it, I think you said how much per day? 700. >> Well, it's about $5,000 a month. >> A month. And then one of these machines >> and then it's um you can't guarantee
that the attachment you need is available. We go into winter if you can even find a machine. How can you predict when it's actually going to snow? They tell you it's going to snow and then the wind changes and it, you know, snow over the ocean instead of on the land or you're not going to get snow and you do and >> yeah, I'm thinking about money. I don't want to go rent a machine
>> for $5,000 a month. Hopes it's going to snow and then it doesn't. >> That's what some other town's going to do. They're going to say, "We better get ours for the the month of January or this week when we're expecting a blizzard." Then you call up and it's already gone in some other town. >> Right. Now, if for some odd reason this doesn't
go through or it doesn't pass a town meeting, we may have no choice. I may have to hope that they have one and we can rent one, but you got to rent it monthly. >> There's no other alternative to pushing a snowb blower down the >> not the sidewalks. You need a specialty machine
>> sit in and drive >> because these things are only uh it's about 50 inches wide this machine and most of our sidewalks are anywhere from 48 to 60 most. >> Yeah. Yeah, >> the ones we do. Anyways,
>> does anyone have any questions about the condition of the machine or its uses? >> Uh, yes. Just a question about um what would you say like monthly operating costs are? Ballpark >> operating costs?
Tell me on that one. That's >> No, that just yearly. It needs it needs oil changes, right? >> Yeah. Yeah. There's really not much else they do to it >> and just keeping up on the >> inhouse mechanic is the is the first line of defense for maintenance. >> Anytime he works on that, that means he
can't do an oil change on a police cruiser. He can't put a fire engine on the lift. He can't apply wool wax to the new trucks. >> Yeah. >> And if he can't do it, diagnostics comes down here, right, to look at it in shop. $200 an hour. >> $200. And then it gets towed to Wuburn
>> if it needs to go up there. If they can't fix it in our shop, >> but as far as like a monthly operating cost, it's >> probably not a lot. It's probably >> very minimal. >> It's probably since it's the maintenance that's nickel and dimming us. Yeah. >> Well, with this >> leaving us another machine when we're going to need it. >> This machine now, yes, the operating
costs have been a lot more a month >> keeping it up because it's an older machine. But a newer machine, >> it will be very, very minimal. Once a year, an oil change, hydraulic fluid, fluel filters. One thing if it's like seven and a half years old and you didn't join it.
>> Another thing to be considering doing that when you're at 14 years old and you're potentially past >> or it might be something seven or eight years old where you say, "Okay, put the clutch pump in even though it's 17,000 because you can still get another seven years out." >> Yeah. >> But this is just basically at the end
and I'm hoping to try to find and I talked to you about it is find money to get a trailer for it. >> Yeah. So we can start trailering this around which will add a lot more life to driving it down the road. >> All the sidewalks the plows can be done from this point. >> They can be
>> however you have to do brush cutting like >> parting way northbrook street. >> Yes. >> It's going slow. It's going on the side of the road. >> Well, that's the problem with these machines that they're a solid fixed um suspension.
So any little bump, any little part, anything, you feel it in that machine and it it rattles it. >> Yeah. So, >> but after 14 years of the road is what really that's what made the uh the wheel studs are starting to snap on it. >> I was hoping we could replace it at a time where we could get the trailer too
just to preserve it longer by trailering it rather than, you know, driving it across town. >> Well, I have ideas and I'll talk to Kathleen about with a trailer out of my operating budget. >> Okay. That's that's a minimal minimal cost compared to the cost of the machine. >> How much you think a trailer
>> anywhere from 10 to 11,000. >> Okay. That something >> proper trail would have to us around with the weight of it. >> But that that that would tower too if you get one of those down. >> Yep. >> And it would also, you know, say we get this new machine some warranty work. Now instead of paying them $300 to come pick
it up, we put it on the trailer and we bring it up there. >> We don't have any other trailer in town. >> No, we don't. The only other trailer we have, the sewer department has a trailer, but it's too narrow. The trackless will not with the dual tires on it. Will not fit on it. >> What do they do? Move their generation pumps.
>> No, they move they they have a small skid steer they use up there for unloading. Okay. >> But it's a very narrow skid steer. >> So, they bought that trailer specific. And I guess maybe not planning as much in the future of buying a wider trailer that everybody could use, they bought one just so those kids do. So the
problem is it's got with the fenders >> the trailer we would get an equipment trailer has no fenders on it. So it's just a straight deck trailer and it's about 84 in wide the trailer. >> Yeah. >> But to me that's something we can work on. That's
>> minimal compared to what we're talking about for the machine. But I would like to get one because it would it would save a machine. >> Yeah. Wear and tear. >> Wear and tear driving down the roads. Hey Chris, do you think your question about the cost is answered? Is there anything else that we can >> Yeah, I'm sorry. Answer that a little
bit better. Look into it. Maybe >> answered to my satisfaction. I was just trying to get a a feel for what the monthly rental cost looks like compared to financing the uh the cost of a new one. You know, just trying to put all those numbers together.
>> All right. >> Obviously, a new one's a lot cheaper than renting. Yeah. Yes, it is. >> All right. Couple due diligence questions >> that you can hopefully just whack away. >> Can I just say that if you if you have a town like a lot of the small towns around here don't really have a lot of
sidewalks, >> but they have field moment, >> right? >> So, wouldn't they just it makes sense for them once a year to just rent a machine for the month, get it all done. >> Yeah. But for us with all the sidewalks we have through the main areas of town
going up Elm Street and I don't know if you how many of the subdivisions you do and all that but >> again not not a ton of the subdivisions just the fact that one machine so say we start after a storm just the ones we do all up and down. So we do from Stop and
Shop all the way to the Plymouth line. Then we do Route 27 near the schools and then we do Hilltop in front of the elementary school. And then there's a few like we do a little bit of Holland's Lane. But that alone takes almost five
hours after a storm. Four or five hours to complete all those sidewalks. >> Yeah. >> Now if we start adding de developments and stuff again, >> it'll be a lot for one machine. I'm just trying to think about I don't know how you guarantee there's a machine available in winter and you start doing things like adding sidewalks to your
town. You start adding costs that you don't think about when you say wouldn't it be nice to have a sidewalk. Now if you need to clear the snow so kids can walk to school or somebody can walk to the store because they don't have a car and they you know bought a house on a sidewalk for a reason. >> Um it just complicates things. So
>> it does. Yeah. Plus with the with the brush m we try to cover almost every single road in town in the course of a year. So 69 miles of road is >> it's a lot it's a lot of roadway to cover.
>> Plus you have other stuff. >> So >> just confirm the following. So the new machine is same manufacturer as the old machine. >> Yes. >> And the old machine is an MT6. This is an MT7.
>> Yes. >> That is It's not a bigger machine. That's just the newest iteration. >> It's the machine. >> Yeah. Basically what it is. So every four or five years, they put a different motor in them. They put us So this one has a little bit different, but no
bigger same exact spit and image of the machine we have now. Okay. Just upgraded. In the quote, what we're actually purchasing is the core body motor where the guy sits. >> Mhm.
>> And the arm mo and mower. >> Yes. The bone. Yep. The arm. >> But we're not getting a brand new sweeper and all the other stuff. We're going to reuse our old. >> We're going to reuse our old because our snowb blower we actually had to replace three years ago >> because the other one was in such bad
shape. So, we already replaced that three years ago. >> How much those cost? Just just like a round number on any kind of attachment >> because that must have been on the something. >> It's good to know. I do have the information. I just got >> So, here's the bid. This is for the
state contract state list. So, a let's see a brand new snowblower is $19,275. >> Yeah. So we just put that on the equipment article for >> what's what's the arm? >> So the arm basically is
>> is that all one like arm and >> Yeah, it's everything for the cotton. So that was >> what's that? >> That was 40,495. But unfortunately right now to get this stuff there's tariffs on it. >> Okay. >> So we're paying 40% tariff on it. But
for the boom pale itself just that specialty mower it's 40. Now, when we were talking the the the the 12 points >> pins. Yep. >> Is that all on that arm?
>> Yes, it is. So, there's different pins. So, the cutting head pivots. >> So, you got So, these pins, >> you got you got the mower, you got the blades that attaches to this arm, and that arm attaches to >> to another section of arm because it comes out multiple sections.
>> And then that attaches to the machine. to the machine. So there's all there's all pins in those points which moves. >> They do have grease fittings. They do have zer. >> Even when this broke, the guy come in says, "Jesus, the thing's loaded with grease." >> Just from years of bouncing down the
road and constant mowing and wear and tear, the pins are starting to break. They're warm. They're getting So they just I'm just trying to break down the cost. Yeah. So >> yeah, I I said we were going to need documentation. >> So
So really So really the 172 the 172 for the main body. >> Yep. >> What we need to fix is costing >> is what your quote is. It's really the clutch.
Yeah, it's a clutch pump that runs everything off the front of the machine and the machine itself. >> And is there anything wrong with the motor or the rest of the body of the machine? >> The machine is two sections and it's held together with one pin and that thing is >> Oh, and that pin no good either. >> Well, the pin the pin in the middle when
they separated it. We're going to have to replace that, too. >> Is what's happening? >> What's the cost of that? >> Articulates. >> Yeah. Yeah. >> Constantly turning. So, it's getting the pin is getting like and the hole it goes through is getting like out. >> But I What? So that >> what I'm saying is the main cost to this
machine >> is where the guy rides the motor. >> That's the machine itself, >> right? Not the attachments cost, right? >> Yeah. >> But how is the body of the main machine? Because it's 172, >> right? >> 172. So
>> the body itself, because we we keep good care of most of our vehicles when we can. So, if you looked at it, the main body isn't bad, but the thing about the motor is the motor's getting tired. So, what you might run into is we could fix this thing and next thing you know, the
turbo goes in it. >> Okay. >> And the turbo's $12,000 or injectors start going in it and then we have to >> say you're just saying useful life's done anyway. >> Yeah. The the mechanic looks at it, his time is taken away from working on the
trucks. They call a guy down from Woolburn, $400 an hour. It gets towed up there and back for 500, 600 bucks, not including the time and labor at the shop. >> The time labor Yeah. and materials. >> Yeah. >> And then it comes back and then the next month, the next day.
>> But to answer Dave's question a little bit, you know, better is just saying that Yeah. I mean, they're saying about 15 years out of these machines, we we're getting a good we got the good life out of it. trade in 8K. >> Unfortunately, it was 30,
>> right? >> It was 30 until they found out about this repair. >> When they initially came down, when I wrote all this up, >> it was $30,000 trade in. No problem. >> Then when they came down and gave us this estimate of $17,000 repair.
>> And that trade in is is it is it with the aging arm attachment or is it that trade in just the body, motor, all that? Just the machine. >> Just the machine. >> Just the machine. None of the attachment. >> No, they don't they don't want the attachment for a tra.
>> Okay. Because that's they said what it would cost to fix the bent arm and to fix things isn't really feasible for them. Okay. So, the the main machine themselves, they'll probably take it, fix it up, put this clutch pump in, whatever they got to do, maybe refresh
the motor a little bit, then they can resell it. All right. >> Any reason not to trade it in and keep it? like for cannibalizing parts >> parts in that thing be reused if this thing maybe a couple of things. I mean I initially w last spring when I
thought we could hopefully get it last capital plant. I would have loved to have kept this machine for a second >> right >> and just use it in the brush cutting season because that's our busiest season. I could send one operator down this end of town. I could send an operator down the other and it would
take half the time to come to town. But now it's now I'm looking at it like even if we did keep it, I'm still going to have to come up with like $20,000 to fix that to use it even to make it a second machine.
>> Yeah. Can you repeat that, Chris? >> Pretty much just where the conversation went anyway, just talking about using it for cannibalizing parts or just as a backup. Would it be worth fixing it? I would love I would love to have a backup
or a second machine, but >> I think it's come to the I think it's come to the point now where it's >> with those snapping studs. So, he'd have to take it off take all the tires off. He'd have to replace he didn't like the idea of that thing being on the road. >> No, he basically
>> I thought it was the pin that concerned him the most. Maybe some of the other issues >> that happened was the tires when he came down that day and saw that the tires he said >> those dual tires that was snapped off fell off as you drive. >> When you say the $17,000 repair or
clutch the clutch >> you would have to also do the pin the tires and probably a handful of other things. >> What would we be into at that point? 40 grand. >> Yeah, >> maybe 30. >> Yeah, >> maybe 30. I'm not You know, Heath, I'm not sure. I didn't really look into everything. I
>> mean, for example, planning perspective, if we had the money in a future year, I'd rather buy one at year seven. That way, we always had one that was on the newer side, one that was on the older side, and you can use them both at the same time, but you'd use the newer one the most, and you keep the older one until it >> like if we put a plan together and say,
hey, in in 10 years or eight years, we put in for another one. >> Now, this one isn't gonna this one we may be getting wouldn't have the life on it of 14 years. Now you could start using one as a spare because I get what David's saying is it's you're not really
getting much back on the trade. >> No. >> And the $30,000 for a trade that would have been great but once this repair popped up they weren't going to give us 30,000 at $8,000. They're just scrapping it for parts. They're just using that
very well could be. Yeah. I don't Yeah. >> So we still at 235,000 or is that changing? >> No, we're at >> No, that's 235. two. Yeah. >> Okay. So, the art I just want to make sure for article and fun things we >> Yeah, that's what's on this thing. Uh other question. So, uh what
water tank with pump kit and spray bar, what does that get used for? Like, how does that >> That's used for the sweeping. >> That's part of the sweeping fun. >> The problem was is we never had that on there before. And when we go down the road and we're sweeping, >> you're just dry sweeping. >> We're dry sweeping. It makes a mess out of the machine sucking it in the intake.
Plus, residents don't like it. And I don't like doing that. I don't like going by somebody's house with their windows open and making a big dust cloud. >> Yeah. >> So, I figured for that minimal amount that water spray gets put on there >> and it keeps the dust down. It >> It helps the machine not take in so much
dust and dirt in the intake. Yeah. >> As well. So, and then the dual ties you have to have. So, in the winter time when you need to snowb blow, we use single tires. >> But when it comes to the weight of that sideon machine for stability and mowing the landfill cap, you have to put the dual tires on.
Yeah. >> So that's why the dual ties are in there. >> We want to get into money or is that out or her view of this committee? >> No, that's in our article right there. >> Beautiful. >> I have a question about the uh parts.
Let's say for sake of argument we, you know, could get two at the same time. Crazy scenario, I know. But beyond the uh the machine itself, what parts would we absolutely need to buy for a second one if we had the money
to buy two at the same time? >> Really? Probably only another boom, another sidearm mower. >> So, would we not have to buy uh the dual tires as well for if we had to? >> Well, you Yeah, you would. You're right. Yep, you would.
>> You would. The water sprayer. I wouldn't with one machine can can sweep. So I think the water spray and no you wouldn't need a second one of that. And then the snowblower we could get away with one unless all of a sudden the town says okay now you start to do developments. You're going to start to
do 15 more miles of sidewalk. >> Then it would require a second machine with a second snowblower. But right right now with the two machines it would basically be the flail arm and the dual tires. >> All right. And then pivoting from that in a more realistic scenario where we
buy a new one when this one's halfway through its lifespan. Uh what does the lifespan for the the other parts such as the snowblower the the boom arm and all that are those longer lifespan than the machine itself shorter comparable?
They're comparable with the machine. So the old snowb blower we had was so that was 14 but they carried it on from 2 years before. So the snowblow was about 15 to 16 years. Um this the street broom we use it, you know, we sweep in April was usually done
by May. So we use it a month. The broom would last, you know, there's really not much to the broom. Just putting new wafers on it, which is minimal. So that would last. Basically, the biggest expense was the flail cutter, the boom
flail. >> Yeah, that's not that's not going to make it. But to answer your question, if you got a second one, the boom flail probably last about the same as the machine. The sweeper, the snowblower will last a lot longer.
>> Great. Thanks. >> Yep. You're welcome. >> All right, let's talk about how we're paying for it. We're actually going to pay for it. >> Actually going to pay for it. >> But I have a bake sale. Have fun. >> I'm looking at this sheet.
>> $10,000 brownie. We're doing we're doing 70 7500 from closed articles >> then oh no more excuse me closed special articles but then from closed articles. So the veterans memorial there was an
extra 50k everything was done. >> Yeah they actually have 70,000 and we're just and they've agreed to turn back 50. >> So wait to hold on to 20. Yeah, for like maintenance and you know upkeep and stuff like that which which is you know
completely understandable. >> And then how about the 24K for the Ford 550? What was that for? >> That was the uh just the balance from when we uh did the purchase sometimes because it's an estimate, you know. >> Yeah. >> So you have the um
a contingency in the estimate because >> Yeah. Yeah. No, I got you. I got you. >> Yeah. I think it was like I think we they asked for like 180 in case there's always extra >> and then at a current operating we're going to take a 108 >> what that so
that is the um >> you know when we were um working on you know the EPW director proposal there was um additional salary put into the uh SDP budget to cover that expense. now that that hasn't, you know, hasn't been
resolved that those funds are still there. >> Okay. >> So, basically, I'm getting paid. >> No, no. I I >> Right. But what I'm saying is so with that, >> you have to repeat it tomorrow night for them. But I I've been around long enough that I >> So, that money's there. >> Yeah. Yeah. >> Gotcha.
>> With nothing being filled yet >> and then 44 out of snow and ice and we're just >> crossing our finger fingers and then going into debt if it's a really bad year. >> I mean, Yeah, 40. >> Okay.
>> But um yeah, because there was quite a a bit of um salt that was left over from last year, too. So, >> okay. The other shed's full right now, so we're hoping. >> Yeah. >> All right. So, that's how you prefer to do it. >> Yeah. I mean, this is, you know, we're
not using, you know, um, capital stabilization because at the time when this came up, we didn't have the first, um, payment for the meals tax, which goes into capital stabilization. So, we didn't use that as a funding and free cash isn't certified right now. So, and
it's kind of we're using what we have. So, we're not, you know, spending free cash like like the minute we get it. So, >> yeah. All right. and then other funding methods we if we didn't just spend what
we got. So if we financed it, right? >> We were looking at a fiveyear fiveyear at five and a quarter% let's say. >> So that's option number two. >> Yeah. Yeah.
>> And then option number three is to take it from what's the name of the fund? The Well, the town reserve or town >> the town reserve fund which we never touch. >> Yes. >> Well, there's only $35,000. >> No, no, no. >> Town reserve. I thought it was
>> Oh, stabilization. >> Yeah, the big guy >> because you know how they use the interchange stabilization and reserve >> our savings savings. >> Well, stabilization would have to be voted at town meeting and you have to vote it out. >> But that's usually like not for, you
know, capital like that. Hold on. >> We made a transfer in the year and I think it's probably the same article every year, but I don't think we did it on last year, 2021. The article transfer is a sum of money free cash. This was a 100,000 into the
stabilization fund. The stabilization fund is a town savings account is a mechanism for setting aside money that may be used for unforeseen needs or for capital projects. >> She doesn't she doesn't want to do that. >> Nobody wants to do it. >> But I'm just saying anyways. No, I mean there >> I'm I'm just there's
>> no restriction. >> I'm just >> it's better for our credit rating and for borrowing to have a to not take from stabilization. >> Okay, >> good point. Uh on the stabilization, do we know what's our rate of return? Any idea?
>> I mean, on average, you we're doing well because the rates are up, but we don't um you know, it's not in like a money market fun, not like an S&P, you know, it's just the >> Is it higher than 5.2? 25. >> Yeah. Okay. >> We're like in the high fours,
>> which is good >> considering used to be forever was like 1%. >> Got it. >> But the investment income is what we use for local receipts. So we, you know, >> my concern with leasing is that we're going to continue to transfer free cash
to capital stabilization because the meals tax doesn't cover all the leases that we have. We had this one. I don't know if this one will be the one that does it. We're basically 5050 items we're buying just with cash and payments we're making on items we've acquired in prior years. I don't like
shifting away stuff we can do right now because of commitments made in the years before. It's totally appropriate for a fire engine or emergency where we didn't foresee an ambulance need to be replaced or something. But um >> yeah. Okay. Um, only other thoughts I or
questions I had. So, we've done a good job of finding money. >> Yeah. >> Okay. We're still early in the year. Uh, police has already been to FinCom once, so the ways to find money are going to become harder and harder and harder.
>> Exactly. Um, so is there I guess still a little money out there that could be found so I'm not going to have a heart attack at the the end of the year or is this is really the found money for the year and we're going to be in trouble after this?
>> I don't think that we could rely on the operating budget for any other capital purchases. >> Good answer. I like that answer. >> That answers my question. Okay. So, we Yeah, we'll just have to do what we can do in the spring, which would This would have been on the spring one anyway. So,
it was on the last spring request. >> And you said, how long what's the delivery time on this? If you order it immediately following >> I've been talking to them. >> Four to six weeks. You >> not even not even >> if we get where the hell is it coming from with the terra?
Well, the the the boom flail and that it's coming from Canada manufacturer. So, >> and that's why I just I threw in the 2026 pricing because as of January 1st, the machine and everything else is going
up 10%. And by January, you don't know what the tariffs are going to be. They could go away. They could be 40. They could be 60. So, that's kind of why you were looking at 2000. anything after January 1st, >> you're looking at a minimum 248 for this machine.
>> One last one last question I forgot >> and this is just my ignorance on the on the topic. Um, so obviously we're we're purchasing the same vehicle because the attachments match >> yada yada yada. Is there a another
manufacturer or another vehic another manufacturer of this type of vehicle or or there is >> are they holding down the whole segment like Zamboni Zamboni does >> they're basically holding down about 80% of it there is another there is another machine or two out there but in doing my
research talking to town of Pembroke they tried another type of machine >> they didn't like them they got rid of them within two or three years and went back with the tracks >> okay >> it There be no savings by going to another machine even though we couldn't use the attachments or anything. >> No, because the problem with that is
you'd have to now start over >> with all the new attachments. >> Yeah. Yeah. >> So, you're going to have to buy the new machine. You're going to have to buy the snowblower. You're going to have to buy the field mower. You're going to have to buy the sweeper where this machine here we they've had one even before this. They had an MT4 or MT5.
So the town of Kingston's had trackless for whatever 30 close to 30 something years different. >> Gotcha. >> And I just thought at this point if we can there's absolutely nothing wrong with the machines. They run great. It's just this one's getting older. >> Yeah.
>> But I thought why start over with another adding another $70,000 in attachments when we already have some that are still usable and compatible with this machine. >> Yeah. It wasn't going to make up the difference. So yeah, I got Chris. You trying to say something?
>> No. >> Nothing. Nothing important. Just going to make a joke about Canada. >> We should leave it to them to make some removal machines. >> Oh, I was just going to say that if we wait long enough, maybe the tariffs won't be an issue because the border could move.
>> Yeah. Yeah. >> Yeah. >> Um, is this in stock? is going to get three or four weeks to leave this >> here or is it going to come from Canada? I think >> Oh, no. He he told me our sales rep. I talked to him again as of Friday. He
said, "If it all goes well at town meeting on the 28th, I call him on the 29th, say it's good to go. We'll have the machine within 10 to 14 days." >> Yeah. You're coming from Canada. >> Well, the not the machine itself. >> Machine's on the lock here. >> The machine's on the lot here. He's got about seven or eight of them. It's the
attachment. hits the boom flail. >> So he's hitting us with the tariff >> and the tires, >> but he's hitting us with the tariff because he's going to buy the replacement machine that he's going to hit the new with a tariff again with a double div and a tariff for them.
>> No, the tariff the tariff is just on is just on the tires and the boom flail, which is special. >> Yeah, there is no tariff as of right now. He told me on the machines >> there is none. It's and and then I said to him, why the boom flare? Why the
tires and not the water sprayer or not that he was telling me the other day there isn't one on the giant the big snowblower >> and they're all coming from >> just he goes I don't have an answer. He goes this is just what gets sentenced. You have a you have a factory that makes machine and specializes in that that's
in maybe the US or something and you have factory up in Ontario that maybe does the boom flail and the mower head and all that but that'll give you enough time to catch up on the brush cutting and the field mowing before >> I won't catch up but I can get some done
as far we have them you know fall early winter >> you know if we get this in the end of October I could possibly still cut for a month I won't catch up because as of right Now we're almost five weeks behind because that's how long that >> and if we order it and if we wait till
springtime meeting you'll probably get one as early if you're lucky July, right? >> Maybe June or July. So then it puts me another three months behind and then I can't I'd have to sub out mowing the landfill cap. I have we have to the landfill cap. >> Yeah. See >> and have it inspected. If we don't have
it inspected then we'd be fine by the >> You'd still have comparable products. Yeah. >> Right. >> Not even. And then I usually sweep April, May. So I'd fall behind on the speed as well. >> Yeah. >> And again, if I start subcontracting this all out, it's just another cost out of the
operating budget that we didn't figure out. >> Installing the machine outright, using it, we wouldn't make any more than a grand. >> I don't I don't think so. I mean, we've just had per recently we had what three dump trucks surplus and we auctioned
them off and we were getting six grand for one, 6,000 for another and we locked out and got 14 grand for one of them. >> But it I don't know, >> right? >> We could put it out in our government auction like we do and we could get 15 grand for it or we could put it out and
only get 1,500 for it and then if we only get 15, we're going to say, "Geez, I wish we put the tray in." So, I couldn't I couldn't answer that. >> Which one which ones are getting the highest money at the auction? Just out of curiosity. Is it the sterlings because there's no more parts? No. >> Or is it not the sterings because nobody
wants them for the parts? >> The F550s, the smaller dump trucks >> is what got the most money. >> The bigger dump trucks. No, because >> it's so hard to find parts for those old Stars. >> Yeah. >> So, I wasn't sure if people were buying them to get the parts.
>> They could be. That's probably why we're only getting five grand for a bigger dump truck. >> All right. Anybody have any more questions? >> All right. I'll make a motion then we can move this along. Move favorable action in the amount of $235,000
for the acquis acquisition of a replacement trackless machine with attachments for streets, trees, and parks department or the streets, trees, and parks. >> Second. I have a second. Okay. All those in favor?
>> Chris, I reluctantly I because we pass some bound money. >> Dave. >> All right. He's eye. Very good. I don't want to have to buy a second one either, but it almost seems like at some
point it could be heavy or make sense. >> Well, if we And again, if if you plan it, it's not going to be anytime soon. Not anytime soon. >> No, >> but if it's something you talk about in seven or eight years in the capital plan, possibly. >> That's why I said not anytime soon.
Yeah, >> wouldn't be anytime soon. >> But if the town keeps growing and we got more miles of road to cut and more sidewalks to do, >> we might have to. >> I don't think there's been any other any other articles with capital in them, so we can skip that. Um, you need to find
anything else with capital, right? Anything to slip through? Okay. All right. Future meetings, special town meeting, Tuesday, August 28th, 2025 at 7 p.m. Kingston Intermediate School. Be there. >> October. >> October. >> October. >> October. >> October. >> Okay.
>> Ah, >> still thinking about >> I started with I started with that off >> and then uh reverted. Yeah. Yeah. >> All right. Member comments, questions, or concerns? Negative. >> Negative. All right. Who's got a motion?
that we adjourn at 6:45. >> All right. So moved. >> All those in favor? Heath. I >> Chris I. >> I. >> Okay. We are journ. Thank you everybody.
Good night.