all right see that is now 6 pm uh on uh uh Wednesday today is the 23rd april 23rd um 6 p.m i'll call the police and personnel meeting to order um the Jennifer is probably going to
review the recording for the minutes okay she wasn't available this evening's here and I'm here um the uh couple of quick announcements the meeting is being recorded by Zoom meaning intending to make an audio video recording of this meeting to notify the chair at this time
not seeing one items may be taken out of order at the discretion of the chair um the wage and personnel board needs a third member to be appointed by the finance committee if anyone is interested in joining the board please contact the finance committee or the board selection office um that is kind
of important because we are a board of two members so um there are some things that we you know it would be nice to have a third member on our board um okay uh first meeting uh item of business we have an appointment tina
Betty the human resources manager and uh Polly help me with your last name nigueli niguel thank you i didn't want to destroy it uh director of elder services to discuss the salary of the new assistant director of elder affairs higher above step three of grade five
so um as I mentioned a couple of meetings excuse me we had um posted for the assistant director of other affairs um she um remind everybody so Holly actually convered in as the director she was the
assistant director of her um and hosted internally externally advertised we had about 27 applicants we interviewed um six and our
candidates um that we both agreed on uh you know just head and shoulders above the rest great experience great references really great disposition um she as I said is our candidate that we'd like we would like to bring her in as a
step four personnel above a step three hire board now um you know part of the justification for lying to Grand Island step four is her you know great experience being able to think about running um but also uh
given the time of year she will be staff until July of six so it'll be over a year until she can get another step so if she were to start before July 1 um her entrance
salary would be the fiscal 25 rate and then when July 1 hits if the 2% fellow is put through at town meeting um she still be at a step
forward provided it sucks um okay um Paul Holly do you want to add anything uh no so our candidate comes with a really strong background uh she's been at several COAs in the area um she she's
got all the qualifications that we're looking for she was um myself and Tina both agreed she was our number one pick overall um I'm confident that she'll accept uh the step four uh offer and I I'd hate to lose her uh I think she's a
really great fit she's going to fit in well with the rest of the staff um there's no additional training that she would have to go through to uh step right into that role seamlessly is there a reason why she wouldn't accept step three
um I think she just felt that her background was uh you know she was a little bit more qualified for a higher salary um she's got 16 years experience in councils on aging um and she brings
again a lot of training a lot of um uh knowledge a lot of inside uh you know lingo so to speak of senior centers and um the qualifications with the software programs that we use some of that stuff is you know that's additional training
that she doesn't have to undergo i don't have to put her through any kind of um any kind of training for the software that we use specific to the senior center she's already she's wellversed in all of that the amount that she was working for is
what why does she want to leave where she is uh I think she felt that there's just no room for growth um so this would be a promotion for her um she's been throughout the COAs that she's been at in the area she's served in several
different roles um and so she can sort of fill in which is also important with us because we're such a small department that if any one person is out it's important that the other person or the other staff can fill in for that person and so she does have experience in all
areas of the council on aging department um but this would be a promotion for her um is the outreach coordinator still vacant no that's been filled yeah uh program coordinator okay is program coordinator going to be
filled no so um when I became the assistant director the the programs coordinator and my role at the time which was a part-time media and marketing coordinator those that was a part-time and then the full-time position were combined to become that
assistant director so this is the role um that I left when I was promoted to director and this is the role that we're currently filling so it is heavy on the programs on the marketing the newsletter um the day-to-day operations of the senior center and the um overseeing all
of the the programming and events that's a lot of what this role does um the um do you have anything um sorry about that i was just finishing my my thought um I had one very simple single
question i looked at her uh resume and she has all the the programs involved she's involved with all the programs she's got Shine she's got um uh
van drivers uh social work knowledge you know show so So she's I agree with what I'm looking at on paper looks like a good person the only candidate the only question I have which is something very silly and it may have absolutely nothing
to do with that is one of the requirements is first aid and she's got a boatload of certifications in education but no first aid she has CPR which is maybe considered first aid but
there's more to first aid than CPR but we all want CPR to have used they find out uh so that was the only question uh everything else was was very good you know she she was an excellent candidate uh looking in the money and
looking at the money end um the it's going to drop actually if she stays at at uh step four um as I was looking at that grade five goes from 56.5 to 73.4
the assistant director budget currently has 67309 correct for the for fiscal 2026 is going to be 67,309 i'm looking at the uh cost for the new assistant director
including the cost of living is going to come to uh 62,97 so we're ear we're gathering money yes so it's not as if we're asking to push the person beyond what the person
been budgeted correct yeah yeah so it's it's a good thing to have that you've got a $4,400 reduction um and um the the cost of living poorly understood she's not going to get anything with this so
y So that those were those are my comments and questions the um uh the 67,000 in your budget yes the 26 yes okay um yeah know I read that i just
wanted to make sure no I wanted to make sure that it's actually in there if it isn't that means we have to change the region personnel article at town meeting no it's already been approved for 26 okay so it is in the budget okay
um I'll be honest with you Holly when I saw the resume I you weren't at our last meeting uh I'll address the elephant in the room which is um I have really had reservations about some of the positions we're bringing in
above a step three okay um some positions in my opinion are not they are middle management they are people in waiting that we're trying to train uh and I think our step one through three and the reason as a wage and personnel board that we raised it to step three
before it had to come to us was to give the town the ability to hire the reason I have a problem with it is the people that come in less than step three that we don't see we don't hear um to me it's not fair to bring someone in at step
four okay or step five or step six um when you know someone else is coming in between step one two and three in a in a similar position what that position is I don't know okay but I'm not addressing it from the standpoint of dollars i'm
addressing it from the standpoint of fairness so that's why when this position came up I said I do not believe this is a position that should be hired above a step three i believe this is a training position a person that comes in
with some experience does this person have a bachelor's degree i'm sorry what a bachelor yeah this person have a bachelor's degree i believe she does i didn't see it i didn't see it undergraduate yes
requirement in the job she had she has her undergraduate degree first sentence is bachelor's degree experience work experience is listed as down below as um uh didn't say substitution it
should for certain degrees a minimum of a bachelor's degree with a minimum of 3 to five years prior to work experience in a field of social service or any equivalent combination of education training and experience
uh which provides the required knowledge skills and abil So that's that's the caveat i understand that okay and I I did read that okay but I'm saying that the um the the first words in the first part of the sentences the word daffod
yes and I did not see them so uh then I had to look at the experience and I was impressed with the experience and to be totally honest with you based on on what I saw and what I felt that this position I thought would would be I thought she
was overqualified quite frankly um my opinion so um you know that's one of the reasons why I have a problem with the step forward okay is is quite frankly the fairness doctrine of the faculty you know we're
we're we spent a lot of money on this study we are um you guys understand what we're facing in terms of the town i'm not going to the dollars and cents uh but I but I am going to say that you know I have I have a problem with it um
the uh other than that I mean I you know somebody here and the net net problem is just followed um we had a meeting recently with the select the veterans agent and the
veterans agent came in at the same type of scenario okay um I was against it um and I ended up being the lone no vote a tie vote with us is a no vote okay
that's why I want a third member on this board right um the uh problem boiled down to that selectman didn't like it administration didn't like it so then we had to have a joint meeting with the selectman and I had to justify everything that why I voted the way I
did at the end of the day it got down to this she was a good candidate okay am I going to do what's I believe is right or what's right for the power mhm and I had to vote change my vote and
I voted state candidate for the town um but it was an adjustment as well slight yeah wasn't where I wanted to be slight it was still much higher than than I think that position is important but um based on the experience that that was a
candidate that had much less experience than this candidate that candidate had two years of experience in that position okay so um again I I don't believe every position that we have to hire has to be
above a step three and uh I believe there are positions in the town that are growth positions learning positions the fact that you had 26 or 27 applicants um you know again I understand that this person probably is the best person given
the experience and so forth but maybe a person that wasn't as experienced but has some potential might have been a better choice so um from the standpoint of the fairness from the standpoint of of uh you know using the wage and
personnel bylaw the way I believe it was intended to be so um that's my say that's my piece um again I'm going to sit here with the vote and go right for the town stand on
my my uh belief no stand on my beliefs or write for the town so um you know if someone you want anybody want to say anything to change my mind please feel free so I'm I'm assuming you're not
for it i didn't say that yet oh okay okay because because I I wanted to hear Paulie's side of it all right and I wanted to hear Tina's side of it um you know the um based on what I saw in the resume great candidate okay absolutely
great candidate i don't have a problem with all this and and I and I can look past the no doubt see I was I was looking at this again and if you look at she's going to be you for I saw that so the certifications be you
um I think it's it's a it's it's good enough for what is intended for this position to be I just want to just want to be cautious because companies can get in trouble very
few required which is why you said here everywhere but I've been like is no I don't have any problem with the equivalent there okay I'm bringing up the point that the first sentence that that's true I understand that okay but
the point is is that's the first yard stick and does all this experience offset that I would agree with you it does okay I don't have a problem with that um the uh but again not seeing the other applicants and talking to I mean
you know is there is coming down to a decision that sort of thing is down and uh you know I have to be honest with you when I I I really tried very hard not to force this out from the standpoint of
feel like you know I did not like I didn't like the first veterans agency from Carver okay now and then this one this one was the right thing to do for the veterans was to hire them i agree um don't know if this job in the senior
center falls into that same test in my head um I I don't know if we have to have someone with all that experience in the senior center um you know if you told me Holly was leaving shortly I'd say "Well that's going to change my
mind." But you're not going anywhere i'm not I'm not I'm not going anywhere and I think that that you know honestly from my perspective that's kind of what comes into play where I'm really stretched pretty thin at this point i'm doing the director job and the
assistant director job and I need someone there who is going to be the overseeing the dayto-day of the senior center you you you guys have been there when we're breaking down rooms we're changing from one activity to another we're producing newsletters we're just
chatting with seniors which is what you know what that that's our job that's what we're there for so I I need someone who can be hands-on and who can be in the thick of things and can speak the language and can navigate all of these things while I'm doing the other stuff
that is more office work right i've got the agent dementia friendly uh process coming up our triad committee is just getting revamped so there's so many uh payroll all of all of the administrative things that I feel very strongly that
this candidate is that person who can be my go-to person for all the things that the that people come to me for on a daily hourly basis um I honestly she just checks all the boxes she's got all the
experience um and I really think she's got the the demeanor and the um you know the personality that is truly what we need over there what quite honestly we've been lacking um and what the seniors deserve um and I know our new
veterans agent and I know exactly what you're talking about with her and I would say that this person is the equivalent of that and that that it's it's just a a really great fit with no additional training no she from day one she'll be ready to go well the um and
the the other advantage again that I see is the fact that this person also has shine certification which contagent does also so now Yeah again officers and with um everything that's going on from the
standpoint of what what we don't know is going on with social security charity and Medicare and Medicaid and so forth having uh more of those people as uh resources to the seniors I think is important i'm not Holly I am definitely
not arguing with you about the person um I'm really not even arguing with you about the the step four okay my issue boils down to that um I I'm extremely fair i try to be very fair through all
the processes and um you know I see that these some of these hirings that we're doing that are above a step three are um cause other problems not just in someone that's hired that's step one step two or step three and see that but also in um
reclasses in jobs so that affects what happens to us the board okay um it's not just a decision to say you know I want to deny her $3,000 i don't I can't I don't want to do but at the same time I I want to be able to say I'm being very
very fair so that that's the reason I'm standing on this um I'm not uh I think honestly that um the the right person at the Sunni center could
be better than quite frankly it could be you know it could go to the next level and if this person is that person to help you get it to the next level uh that you want then you know I don't have a problem with that okay um would this person ultimately you
think um if if if something happened could would this be the next director when Holly wins the lottery yeah when Holly wins the lottery lottery is this the next i'm just thinking about me winning
a Maui now um I I would say I listen I I don't have any plans of going anywhere so I don't I'm not thinking of my replacement but if I'm out of the office for an extended period of time I think she could easily uh fill in for me um
without any real uh interruptions and service how about uh talents well you don't know yet city better but possibly uh in speaking to their talents of uh outside the same in other words um you know I'm a
believer that you know I've hired a lot of people in my life in past jobs uh in past division and I didn't necessarily look for a position player I always looked for an athlete red arvback and the Celtics said the same thing okay he
always hired the athlete not a position player so is Is this person an athlete meaning could she take on in your opinion any other responsibilities not knowing what they are i have no idea what they are but does this person have that that kind of strike you as having
that ability yeah so u when Tina and I were talking to her during our interview she was telling us about a um like an expo that she was in the process of setting up coordinating she had coordinated 30 something vendors uh to come in for an expo healthfare
related senior service related so she's she's very hands-on she's in the thick of things she gets into the weeds and the minutia of the from start to finish of um setting them all up being hands-on for the event literally setting up
tables chairs banners making all of the uh promoting the event so I think for sure she understands um you know the the minor details of things and but the importance of of following through and making sure that information is shared
clearly to seniors does she see the big picture you think yeah she's the type person that can see the big picture oh absolutely yep and it's a passion you can tell you can just tell as soon as you start talking to her that it's a passion
that's that's hard to find yeah i think I think for all we get paid i mean this is our passion oh yeah my brand new uh wager personnel Canadian that now position i
do i I think I think what you say is you know she possess the candidates the skill set the the professionals and all of those different things that if there was something in another department that
starts fit into that sure you know um you know and I'm glad that's what I was hoping we would want to be she wants to be You want to be where you want to be because that's where you do your best job no I totally understand but I but I
I think also that um go back to what I said before about Okay if I'm going to make that decision I want a reason I made it i do have other and that's why I'm asking this question yeah so I have kind of like the
same questions that you asked only a little bit different was was one of the things that um things happen things happen beyond anybody's control and one of the questions was you can still can
she if God forbid she stands on a on a on a a wind stick and you get hit by a fro wins the lottery the situation do you think that her experience would get her through the
humps because there nobody ever knows everything but it does take a little while sometimes to to trick but her experiences are all just all over the place i mean she's monitored this and walked that pinned
down and that was okay the other uh question you've answered a question on you know if she could the other is a question about reclassification and you had mentioned something uh and Jim something about uh changing responsibilities are you considering
looking at her responsibilities as a reclass within the next year that you're aware of like asking a reclassification for her position no okay okay and the other one was uh communication skills i
wanted to talk a little bit about that uh because I don't have her here and I can't talk to her so I don't know how she's struggling so all I can do is rely on you when it comes to how dealing with seniors and I'm I'm a senior uh
and communicating with seniors is is extremely not difficult but special because it's different it's you're not communicating what they're talking you're communicating with somebody from an entirely different world you know but
so if you're comfortable that was my question are you comfortable and content and uh impressed with her communication skills yes 100% uh and again with her background in working with in COAs she's
not new to the the dynamics um of of talking to seniors and of um helping them navigate things um especially she's got an outreach background she's um she's dealt with the
triad program she's dealt with volunteers she's a volunteer coordinator uh the senior tax workoff program so she's certainly fluid in all of that and her communication skills are exactly what we're looking for at the Council on
Aging very calm very professional a great listener you know we've had telephone conversations that just turn into other things beyond you know work so it's certainly relatable um down to earth just really again I'm I'm I feel
like I'm just singing her praises but I do feel very strongly that it's here's here's a potential problem that I want you to see if you a get your head around and give me a solution sure she
comes in as a uh step five grade four step four grade four step four no no step five grade four step four grade five no i had grade five step four grade five step four
step five no right my pro my issue that I see and and uh Lorraine's question about the reclass is very poignant the um my understanding is that we are not going to hire a program
director that person is a step six right we are not going to hire a [Music] um she will be the outreach coordinator no we have an outreach we have also step six
okay grade six she is a grade five i know does the outreach coordinator answer to her no he answers to you the outreach coordinator yes yes okay um so they are equal in terms of the
organizational chart um equal but different uh just completely different roles within the organization within the department yeah uh they work collaboratively for sure but I wouldn't
say that one is over another uh it's my understanding this is the first time I've gone through the hiring process so it's my understanding that the outreach coordinator is a grade above the assistant director uh due to having the requirement of a masters
okay that's what I my understand but this person was an outreach coordinator in a past life correct yes okay um the I I guess I can't necessarily articulate what I think the problem's going to be but when I see those numbers
I sense a possible problem in the horizon and so if the person comes to you and says you know I I I believe I'm going to handle some of these things but this person is going to
answer to but I'm at a different level how are we handling that uh so I think that we've had you know uh it I guess that's something that I could talk to her about now uh and we we did in the interview explain the structure
of the department uh we went over that she's familiar with municipalities and the step and grade structure uh so I don't think that she's coming into this blindly not knowing you know what to expect in terms of year-to-year
uh salary increases um you know she can do her due diligence to see what other people in the department are making that's public record but I don't I don't see her questioning uh reporting hierarchy or um you know
finding that it's clear within the department who reports to whom and I I don't see with that not being in the department I would have assumed that both those people answered through assistant director who then answered
through the director uh program coordinator and outreach coordinator i would have thought both those people would have answered to the assistant director and then the assistant director answers to the director that would have been the hierarchy that not knowing it that would have been the hierarchy hence the reason
for my question where I see the problem and if you're telling me that the hierarchy in the department is so well defined that that problem doesn't exist or won't exist then I'm fine with it but I do you understand where I'm coming from is I I do yeah i mean I guess my
take on it is the department in my opinion is big enough you know pretty much all department you know
um I can understand not having positioning people to the assistant director i think in the past that position might have drivers that was before position
um so I mean that's kind of my size in my opinion it's not big enough so the program and the outreach both report to you correct right now there's no program I'm sorry there is
but the physician if it were occupied both the both the program outreach coordinators would report to me directly correct if the program's position they all and the program coordinator will be filled by the
assistant director so the program's position was eliminated it was still bylaw it's still in the bylaw okay and and honestly when I was here and Lorraine was too when the when quite
frankly you were appointed as and part of the agreement that we had with the previous director or my understanding not agreement understanding was that we were not going to fill the program coordinator's position because program coordinator would assume would be part of the assistant director's duties
correct and then he said why don't we get rid of it who was probably mean said once we get rid of the position we never get a five but now you have one as now you have a person who is hired as a five doing the job that says in our bylaw
that she's paid at a six and I see problems with that and all I'm trying to do is prevent the problem so uh that's the reason why I bring it up okay it is in the bylaw public knowledge you can look at it just like I can look
at okay you know why would that position be a six and it's half my job and I and I still got this other part of my job to do and I'm being paid as a five i don't want to reclaim and and that's the reason why
I'm saying what I'm saying it's it's not a Holly problem or a camping problem it's a bylaw problem but the bylaw problem could become a Holly problem and that's why I asked what would you do
i would talk to Tina i would too that's not I didn't write the bylaws so I think and so you know so we had an assistant director position well before anyone that was in this room in this room um
that was created for a certain reason and then leadership changed over there the lab position kind of went away programs person didn't do the other parts that the assistant director did and I mean it should change over there then they looked at it again um so yeah
I mean I I do believe that the assistant director has absorbed some of the program parts of the program coordinator I think um I think the director has agreed has taken on some of those pieces I think
even the going to be upgraded on the union side um transportation they they have certain parts of that as well um you know I mean ultimately if this if this board wants to get rid of that title I I just think
this hire I think this hire makes a very good case to get rid of yeah be totally honest to make her like okay um there's a conflict when you're dealing with an assistant director and the hierarchy normally
would not have an outreach coordinator on the same level as an assistant director and I have and and and that's why I was asking the question because I didn't understand the the organizational layout based on the
bylaw everything else I can understand in the bylaw because you know if if um the director is a 12 the assistants at 8 the outreach coordinators or or whether it's facilities the assistant facilities that they all follow a very numerical
correct logic this one doesn't in my head now if you're an assistant director in grade five and an outreach coordinator who has fewer responsibilities I don't know that i don't know that well I mean
so there might be more to do and assistant director was not even in the job no but anyway so you know so I think I should say that the responsibility as it affects
individuals on the outreach side might have been some of that different grades i don't know that that was in the study right right but but the assistant director was not in the study program coordinator was in
so wasn't the outreach coordinator right the um the outreach coordinator has an asterisk that says a parttime based on how work right is that it's full time it's always going to be well time right now it's
full time right now but that caveat's in there in case we could only became part time or you know well it originally started off that was my next question was this position so at one point the commission
was at that time um understood that the town and so um and that and so um the ones that became full women
racing personnel then you know it was the you know change of director and I don't I don't change director any department you need to think of what is what's the idea what do we need what's
my structure right no I understand but but I mean I'm I'm not looking for trouble but I can see a problem and I think it needs to be addressed the you know um we're a little too close to
town meeting to uh uh the other thing that can happen as well is um I could put a motion on the floor at town meeting asking to eliminate the position of program coordinator for CO okay and a town meeting vote they
could vote on i guess my thing is different incumbent to the assistant the assistant incumbent might have a concern whe you know something or no no no doubt no doubt but
but but um but I don't think but but I don't no I agree with you I'd rather wait but I don't think it's a problem we should ignore and I think no okay and I and I don't for one reason why make her job harder that's what I'm trying to understand why why make Paulie's job
harder by by a bylaw that I think is often that should be adjusted so that we can eliminate a problem now maybe the right thing is that the you know the assistant director is a grade eight i don't know okay that's that's up to her
but I don't want this to be a discussion point okay um I don't think I think it's an unnecessary discussion point it's you're just stepping on your own foot and and I think we can avoid it by getting rid of the problem um the uh
first step in the act if we could do that at the town meeting uh next week but but again I think we'd be better off waiting until quite frankly fall and and uh flesh it
out because the question is why do you want to get rid of it well because that position's been adjorded with the assistant director of the COA okay and you know so is the assistant director of the COA uh going to be compensated for for taking up No
because we they've adjusted their organizational chart and moved responsibilities so people are on their correct way because you really don't want to date the details time no no I understand because we don't have all the answers yet i understand i mean it's just poor
Holly but but I just I just and Holly I don't mean to put you through it i just I'm just telling you that that they're Yeah I understand i'm a firm believer that you know you throw a rock in the pond and the ripples go everywhere mhm and they
touch everything and and looking at this I can see a possible problem coming at some point in the people it's like two of them upside down right and and to be totally honest with you if if the if the
person was just hired as as a step three or lower this problem would even come right because we would never hear right became a problem would come like you said to a head probably soon as somebody
realizes wait a minute people know exactly what they're doing what they're going through in their head if they find out that well wait a minute wait a minute you know it makes no sense but um okay I'm I'm off my soap
and you did a fine I I there was several things I didn't I saw in this as I to summarize there are some things in the position I don't like um the uh you know I think the best thing is let's put a motion on the floor
uh to um uh hire a uh assistant director to the COA at a salary of step three grade five grade five step four oh you're going you're I'm reading exactly what it's grade five okay now
this is what the this is what the agenda say that's why I want to check this oh okay so I have to go to Tina's higher above step three higher above step three okay this is being hired at what
position here step four so uh again I'll rephrase the motion uh I'm looking for a motion to approve the hiring of the assistant uh director of the COA at um
step four grade five okay um and uh um for the candidate for um so that's that's my proposed motion okay in light of her experiences and and her her knowledge I so okay so I'll
second it all right all right any more discussion no s I don't have rain yes Jim yes okay Holly sorry thank you just doing your job patience and good luck
with your new job and folks yeah no again I I I'm really not trying to make this difficult but I understand i hope I made my point clear about you know the way I feel about it so you're here to make question ask questions that's what
that's what you're there for i appreciate it yeah we have no we don't have all the answers that we expect [Laughter] thank you thank you i'm gonna go buy my lottery ticket now if she dies i like the lottery
yeah I like that well congratulations and thank you and if you get the lottery tell I look forward to meeting the applicant absolutely thank you so much
appreciate it thank you thanks all right so uh discuss any issues related to annual town meeting if needed i had an issue okay why is the facilities taken out of the DPW direct position in the town view
who decided okay i'm going to tell you up front i'm voting against it because my vote I feel like my vote shouldn't it should be way too the DPW i do not recommend bringing it
forward okay so um and I'll make that known that uh because I feel that that change like that should not be done after vote so but is your vote of
[Music] having I guess I didn't see the vote of having I guess when you guys looked at the job description this has been great i wasn't I wasn't
understanding how we we squatted the director in the bylaw right to give the town the ability to stay within the parameters of the job description y and appoint a DPW director if necessary okay the job description
has been changed i my vote is now rescended i do not want to put a DPW director in the town okay so you're not necessarily not I'm not necessarily in favor I'm in I'm in favor of of the rules changing after the fact
okay and um I I sorry that you don't know the reason why i really was hoping to do that somebody better somebody's gonna ask it if I'll need it i guarantee that well we also asked for the committee to
talk to us which they did not we also asked the committee to provide us talk to you guys it's an in just that understanding process all right and the other thing we had asked for is they had asked for uh
is it February or March we asked them to have all their work done before we had it considered and we asked them for January and this is what we got the other day they had all it's right
yeah december right that it's changed and and that's wrong and that's wrong because we've approved a job description and now they're going to change it after the fact so that means it's null and vod and I agree with our motion in our vote that
qualifies as a request so you just got you know changing the content and job description answer um when you change the content for the job description after we approved it you classified it you ranked it you spent time doing this
and now they randomly and unilaterally decided to take a chunk of it out without even asking us why i mean that's our job description that we have to reply to you so they shouldn't have said to us why this is why we put this up and
this is why you know It's not about pride it's about the the routine it's about the you know the bio wall and the bump study and everything works so very hard uh and to turn around and say "Oh no we're going to take that out." And
that's done we'll go back to Yeah but they've changed the job description so no and I cannot that
then we're not I'm not supporting it on on the floor as a as a board because neither one of us want it so because of the change person by law changes
which chang I um I don't know the answer to that yet because I want to think it through um I'm inclined to change the bylaw on the floor um because I think that if this is
going to change after the fact that we voted then I think it needs to be right back for that piece of article whatever the number is um but we're part of the consent agenda so we will have to say
hold you know that already okay okay i watched I was to do that i I wasn't there so I didn't decide yeah sean and he named all the articles that require the consent agenda so um uh so if it's in the consent agenda I'm
going to hold the whole waging personnel on it not the other one right right no the the colon is fine but the change in bylaw that will be held and the reasoning will be that the DPW
directed position was changed after we voted on it and therefore and uh if someone wanted to make a friendly amendment to me that says we'll take the DPW director out of the bylaw I would I would be okay with that
there'll be no DPW directed vote at town position will not be a position that founded it right the only option say we want no because it's not the
it the the way you the way you guys were doing this was we were going to create a position so that the town can vote on now now what we're going to do is do the right thing which is create the position for the town and then vote on it the town needed right so I guess like like I
had said before that there are a number of positions to file i saw this as let's get that place in there i agree but but so so so let's get this position in there if the town later decides to do TPW agree so now so
the article that says do the bylaw changes part of those changes creation of position and then that article to take out that petition correct to remove that piece of is that your
family no no the the point being is is that if um it doesn't even amend if the um I would then have to put a motion on the floor that removes the DPW director from the bottom
and if the floor votes yes it's out it's out then there's no vote on a DPW director because there's no the position's been eliminated you're asking that you insert okay but but what you're saying is what you're
saying is is you're right Jim you can take the position out but they could still vote on the DPW director and then that would have to come back to us and we would have to approve it rate it and rate and we'd have to reclassify it because basically what we
approve before we changed it and Okay but that's what I mean so like you can do that i I'm not I'm not arguing that part that's all I'm getting at so the town says yeah and then okay so at least then
that job or classified you seen an organization for this new department i haven't seen organization any department i mean there there there there was at the last selecting meeting
our discussion and there was a chart put up that showed how the DPW directly was people were answering for Could you find it and send that to Jim and I please I did see it during this and because I'm a
big fan of or right but keep this in mind okay the it wasn't finalized it's not finalized no it wasn't finalized Then then at that point at that point at that no probably two three weeks ago
board of selectment and they were still going to meet with the DPW group right one more time and that's when the change came about for and was the board of select change don't know I just I just got it no it wasn't presented to to us I
just got that through the wind that the that well actually your email and I'm going well what do you know that I don't know you know why did you send the email I guess what I'm trying well you knew yeah but no idea why no
and so so basically what they what we have is we approved job description submitted it Then they changed it didn't talk to us i mean and this was after you voted on the
job description so and we [Music] [Music] graduating public works oh public works director so I think you Well again I just don't think it's right
to change that not not after a vote by us or or we should just be allowed to vote um I just don't want it to the way it's going to go at the president approves two zero n can't do it right not right
now yeah i don't disagree that job changing way change the position um it would but I don't I'm still think I mean when you're again we're dealing with a chunk of of
facilities and buildings and personnel that's a lot of responsibility so is something's going to shift because if you didn't need the facilities in the job description was there in the first place well and again I was I know I
thought it was wonder they took the form You know these facilities department street trees and hs are in the DPW because tradition only street trees and hawks facilities didn't appear
on the scene about 10 years ago so you can't say that it's been a tradition no that's what it means if I think of departments of public works I think of public works as the public
work because the public are coming into the building and if your building is not appropriately set up if it's not safe it's not comfortable then yes that's an impact on the public it's a it's
definitely but even something as strange as similar as what I want to understand is uh facility means staging to go up the side of the building to fix the meeting with that library and we have staging input
but I don't think anyway the point I'm trying to make is that the coordination Okay they need a backup they can't take the one from the transportation they can't take DPW they're going to go
maybe when when the budgets get a little tighter they won't tell you right now they won't get me off okay i I just know what's going to happen here so um in my experience and
and I've got three plus years of experience is calling on highway departments and DPWs facilities is part of DPW yes okay and if if the goal here is to get coordination amongst all the departments to touch dirt bricks wood
paint whatever pipes if we want coordination of all that put it all under it and do you want to have people joke to you whatever he wants yeah you can obviously tell him I'm not happy though okay and and neither is so the uh but
but I don't know if Pete has a whole lot to do with it yeah i mean obviously he was in that committee but I don't know I don't know where where the decisions happen um because it really does impact what we
did as a board and what our vote was so yeah it what is going in now is what they're presenting is not what we do absolutely possibility and and honestly you know one of the problems that I saw
with this position is kind of my my my good brain said don't go for this don't create this position if there is clear because commissioners not happy about it water commissioners not happy okay so
you're going to have angst and and that angst is going to bubble up somewhere i think I'll understand correctly still into the water [Music]
and again the our understanding of the position was those who would answer directly public so that's changed the position's changed again yeah I guess because it was presented that water and
sewer would fall under that department meaning that the water superintendent and the sewer superintendent would answer to the director of public works So I think it was more to your point it was more of okay maybe the
superwing did no no no other towns I did my homework okay the water department and the sewer department the big part of it is that one of the biggest problems that they have is I
contracted they cannot take the water people they can the sewer people cannot go okay but if if it's under a public works department and those people are employees under public works okay those
things can they be negotiated but to be honest with that it's the way it is everywhere never made a case for anything but but the point the point the point is though that quite frankly if
there are better things to negotiate I don't disagree okay if you're going to fight about whether the water guy can go blow snow he works for the department of public works that to me is just not a negotiation it's worked But the point I'm trying to make is that
that it would be smarter to look at a much bigger picture so um but the uh if if if the current strate uh is not director of public works
superintendent of water superintendent sewer answers to him that is not what I believe there okay if they have to go to the d their board of directors and their board members commissioners then go to no question as far as I'm concerned I
wouldn't do that i mean it was my understanding that water and sewer people would be dealing with rates and yes I apologize uh you know rates that kind of sense so doing they're
enterprise they're not dayto day should fall to the bill correct so if decides that Joe needs to to shovel snow here but Mary needs to plow it's still in the
same department still out of the same budget i don't know how they would have to really change a negotiation or or a contract because they're still operating heavy equipment and how descriptions to
them there so that was a question how specific are they when it comes to But we've seen things that you know they have to so Yeah but yeah but no no no i mean I just know we have physicians in water and waste water they don't do that
plowing is not and their job is but heavy equipment is Yeah but plowing is not heavy equ but the piece about plowing is you are on you have to be here overnight but if you uh Okay I see other argument
here but if you're operating heavy equipment in terms of the hours and I there's a couple of people right there's also some but the um keep in mind it's
not about plow and snow it's about coordinating you know water as a problem okay um and right now streets and parks was on project and water needed the Volvo payload
and streets and parks somebody has to make a decision which says this water leak is more important than the beach project you're doing with the Volvo get the Volvo over there right now that's not going to exist but that's the point
correct that's that's my illustration okay you know um you you know that that's what I want to to make sure um would you like to vote on this or not i don't think we need to i think honestly
Yeah the it's it's just a vague item on the agenda um the uh but I also in basically bringing it up because I think there might be a problem with it i'm debating whether or not to make a motion you
could you can make any motion you want um pilot to to director from the Ohio because I'm not entirely comfortable with the description of that with them and that's it's not what we
changed it and without changing I have nothing I the only caveat I would say is I would hold off because it's going to come out to town
let's find out what they what they say in other words why did you turn okay so because I don't stand there and how long I would do it right and that's sufficient to me yeah right and I I think but maybe if they changed it and there's a reason they changed it which I
can't battle okay if there's a reason why they changed it I'd like to do No that's the only reason why I'm saying I wouldn't vote again i I would vote against the motion because Okay i wouldn't I want to hear what they want what
it's kind of on the agenda discuss any items related to annual town meeting if needed i don't think you can I don't know i mean I'm a I'm a resident as a resident I can sit there and say I want the whole thing no on the floor i'm not
you know what I mean if we made a decision and we made a vote on it then then it's fine but I agree with him now i I understand what he's saying um and uh I have no problem standing on the floor i've done it
before as a member because I don't know that i'm really okay with that um so I'm glad that sentence in the agenda sorry to put you through that discuss any related annual town meeting
if needed so fun with that i was more of a if you guys took the vote to say you're going to take that off and it was no one this wasn't made public enough to the point where someone be here like let me answer that for you before you make this vote well don't forget the warrants yeah and
the warrant is closed can't change the warrant so we're going to ask you know do I know what that was your start off okay so don't again see if they have an
orange child because I would love to have seen there was one there was there was um Eric was summarizing the discussion of the DPW group okay and he had put up on the screen a chart it's in
YouTube the last selection it's towards the end like at about the hour mark but is it part of the materials those I didn't I haven't had time to look okay so I I can't honestly tell you that okay the the U and during
and during that meeting it was not brought up well change in the facility it could have been a suggest you know what I'm saying i'm not going to tell you it was final maybe it was surrounding yeah it was it was just a
discussion that he had and I remember seeing it because I had watched the meeting and that's you know and and I I probably watch most all right so um but uh Okay all right well um anything else
no okay uh there's nothing 48 hours in advance of the meeting uh I I would uh anything you Okay i appreciate you coming in tonight and I appreciate you hearing me on my so far um the uh now
seeing that it's 7:12 I'll ask for a motion to close the personel meeting for uh April 23rd i move to close the person 12 p.m on April 23rd i'll second
it i'll take the bill yes jim does all right