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Video-Count: 1
Video-1: youtube.com/watch?v=yAZVjtnS6ro

Part: 1

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Okay, we'll open up the uh April 14th sewer commissioners meeting. Elaine I >> Okay, and with us we have um Liz from legal legal counsel from Talaman Ame.

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Hi, nice to meet you. >> Nice to meet you. >> Uh, can you hear us? All right. >> I can. >> Okay. Um, so basically we're just here to review the contract we sent that you modified and you know just take it from

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there. >> Okay. >> Um, one of the key key things is um that this money be unrestricted for our for our use. And I don't know if if language

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needs to be in this contract to say that because the pending project, the proposed project is paying for the installation of all the infrastructure themselves. They're not going to incur any debt with us on a on a a regular basis. They're

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paying for it themselves. the um what we would get out of it would be the user fees and those just uh would flow into a regular account as they do today. So it's the fee up front that they're paying um

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to discharge to our sewer system that we're looking to be unrestricted since it's not paying for a betterment um put on by the town or anything like that. There'd be no lean on the property for any of that. Okay. So you so the money that's coming

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in, you just want to make sure that there's no restriction on how it is to be used. >> Correct. On our on our side that if we needed it wanted to use it for debt in a particular year or we were had a shortfall in our operating budget, we

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don't anticipate any of it, but we still want the flexibility to be able to utilize it um in a legal and appropriate way. Okay. I don't see any restrictions in here on that, but um do you know what

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account that would go into or do you have your own separate >> We have these fees enterprise account. >> Yeah. So, we'd have a an enterprise we have it would go into our enterprise account. >> Okay. >> Probably to a specific account line

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item, but um it would go to our enterprise fund. >> Okay. because we had in the past we had done a uh contract with another entity and the word betterment was used in the contract and because of that um it's been

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challenging to have that be unrestricted. So that's why we're looking to go into this one you know specifically with no restrictions. And do you know if there's any um restrictions on the way that the account

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was set up regarding how it can be used? >> No, that it should just be a we we can find out specifically from the accountant, but it would just be a a general enterprise fund account. I mean, >> well, the law that sets up the sewer

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commission, which I've looked at that pretty in depth. Um, sets our enterprise account and our our task as a sewer commission voted. >> Oh, is it on? >> Yeah, he's on. >> Okay. >> You're quieter than than she is.

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>> I'm louder than you. >> Oh, okay. >> Lean it into. >> All right. Sorry about that. So under the laws that establish the sewer and water commission actually the enterprise account that gives us the responsibility right whatever the right word is to utilize money that comes into our

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account as we see fit but we also are responsible for paying the debt as we go forward um that's incurred to us. So we from an accounting point of view, we're taking care of that. But what Elaine is saying is that we want to be able to in the short term particularly

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um be able to deal with some other financial obligations we might have. >> Okay. So if you're um comfortable with the way that the account is set up, then I'll just focus on um the language of this agreement and make sure there's nothing in here that would restrict it.

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>> Agreed. Yes, we'll take care of the the process on our end as long as the language is is clear. >> Okay. >> You want to deal with that allocated capacity? >> Yeah. The one thing that I want to be sure and it kind of goes to what we just

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talked about from a uh the allocated capacity that the way it's worded in the original agreement and one of the comments we we all made from our side is that the calculation that comes up with 44,000 gallons per

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day is not actually a flow. We're not giving them 44,000 gallons of capacity. That calculation is for the purposes of establishing a betterment within our rules and regulations the way we've done it for the last 25 years. And I want to

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be sure that the entity that enters this contract doesn't believe in any way, shape or form that they have 44,000 gallons of capacity and to to enter into our system. That's only a calculation to come up with a was used for the

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betterment the betterment numbers. Um but as Elaine just said, we this doesn't mean there's no betterment related to this project because it's outside the town of Kingston. >> So um that's why the money we want to get is unrestricted, but also want to be

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sure that this allocated capacity states and I wrote something down. I gave it I forgot to bring that actually. Um that's the one thing I didn't bring. So, what I want to make sure it's clear is that the flow that they're entitled to

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is actually the flow that they generate um naturally, I should say. Maybe that's the wrong word, but without any infiltration or inflow or other extraneous flow, it's whatever is expected to come from the number of

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homes and bedrooms that they're going to have in this facility, which they articulate in the beginning of this document. So to give you an example, 44,000 gallons is how we will gain that uh

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fee for the use of our system. But they're only going to see roughly half of that in normal when this whole thing is built out. They'll probably see something on the order of 22,000 24,000 gallons. That's all the flow that they're actually going to come into us. So, I don't want them to think that they

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have another 20,000 to build some other buildings around this site. Okay? Because that's not the intent or the meaning or any of this um document. I hope that's not too confusing.

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>> Okay. So, so the allotted number of gallons per day is based on the development that's being proposed and the actual usage um if it's less

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than that which it should be they can't um allocate to something else. This is the only thing allowed under the >> Yeah, they can't allocate what they don't use above whatever they do use. That's another way to look at it.

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>> So that that's correct. >> They're unused quantities can't be used for future development, >> right? >> Okay. >> Actually, I sent that to you in the email. I got five different documents here. The one I don't have is the right one.

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>> Okay. So, the one So, when I was reviewing this, the thing that I noticed um was that this was non transferable, >> right? >> Non-refundable. Um, I think the better way to do this or

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to structure this because that was one of the concerns that I had was that we said it wasn't transferable, but if they sell the development rights to somebody else for this exact project and they've already paid a non-refundable deposit,

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um, shouldn't they be allowed to transfer those rights through the sale? the rights for the proposed project, >> right? >> I I think that's the key, >> not to because it's a sizable sizable

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lot and there are other adjoining properties that would benefit if they had extra capacity that they would make some arrangement with this other entity. And that's what we want to avoid for this proposed project. This is the

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capacity they have. to your point, if they sell the the rights to another developer, it's still the parameters of this project. >> Okay. In light of that, I'd like to adjust the language here a little bit. >> Okay. >> To make sure that that's captured. I'd

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also like um if possible, maybe a more robust description of the project so that we can base this agreement on that specific project. >> Okay. Okay. I just found what I sent earlier to

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Elaine just as a edit. See if this helps. Um allocated capacity. I can send this to you also. Um >> okay, that'd be great. >> Actual flow will be determined by metering the flow as described elsewhere in this agreement. Allocated capacity relates only to the determination of

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access fees/betiments betterment calculation per the KSC rules and regulations. It does not relate to actual flow. Okay. >> And then any redistribution or of unused allocated capacity will be determined based on the KSC rules and regulations

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and are not unrestricted. >> Okay. >> So, it kind of there's a bunch of ways like to approach it, but I I'll send this to you as soon as we >> Okay, that all makes a lot more sense to me. Um, >> this one I have time to think about it.

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>> Yeah. And um one other thing was the um border selectment signing off on this because of the roads. Would it be more applicable to just state there that they have to get a approved road opening permit from uh the highway department?

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Because it's it's not clear why the the the entity responsible for the roads would be the highway superintendent, highway department. And if they're required to get the road opening permit like any other whether

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it's Eversource or anybody else, they'd be following the same process. And for that process, it's between the highway department and the entity opening up the roads. That's why I was just

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where the approval of the uh selectman would come in if it's related to roads. Um, let me think about that a little bit because >> okay, >> um, just because in looking at the statute and the authority of the commission, >> okay,

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>> it typically relates to work by the commission and the roadways. Um, and not >> agreed. I mean, we I'm not opposed to putting language in here saying that it would need to be, you know, the typical road opening permit or specifically what

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we're trying to get get at that they do. >> Yep. that. So, okay. >> Yeah, I'll think about whether or not we can just add language um requiring that separate approval or or if they should be a party and I'll >> make adjustments. >> Okay.

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>> And the other point to that to add to that is it's my understanding that the sewer commission was the selectman before uh the town agreed to create a sewer commission, an elected sewer commission by law. And therefore

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our responsibility to work with the highway department and in the street openings for our sewers came with came to us as a voting elected you know u body. So it just gets another entity out of the middle of this that that didn't

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need to be in it because that's already been you know given to us by law. >> No understood. Um I looked at the act that created the sewer commission and um the statute and there was just a gray

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area there regarding authority when the project's being undertaken by someone other than the commission. >> Okay, that makes sense. Um anything specific? Uh just go through this page by page. >> Yeah, you can just do that. I got I got

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my other things here, but yeah. Okay. So, just to because I know you responded to some of our our questions. So, on the first page, um I think we're good with giving you more specifics on what the housing project is. Um the next one is

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the definition for the capacity, which Brian will send along and um government approvals. You didn't there was no comment on that one. >> Gen a general thing. Title five is five, not V.

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>> That's me. >> No, it's everybody. >> Title five is five. Really? Not V. Okay. >> Not V. >> The number five. >> And I can say this with complete total honesty. I wrote it. I wrote title five. I was the director of water pollution. And this is a big problem for me. It's five, not V.

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>> Okay, that's good to know. Um, second page. Um, under 2.1. Oh, I said that's the capacity issue for payment obligations related to the buildout. Yes.

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Now, you made a comment on this, Liz. Um, under 2.1, won't they be responsible for payment obligations? >> Yes. >> Can you help me with that a little? Um

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because hold on >> because it says just for the general public says capacity shall vest in payment obligation shall acrew and I just said capacity shall um

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>> only as and when bedrooms are constructed and connected. So the way it was worded and I crossed out and payment obligations shall acrew because the way that it was worded was that pay payment obligations would only occur

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um when bedrooms are constructed but there's other payment obligations that occur before that takes place. >> Okay, that's good. Thank you. >> Yeah. Um >> that doesn't change the fact that they're providing us the 75%

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that that's this is after the 75% Right. >> Right. So, I deleted um because the it's just a matter of uh the way that it was worded. It said capacity shall vest and payment obligations shall acrew only as and when bedrooms are constructed. So,

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by removing and payment obligations shall acrew. It makes it clear that the payment obligations acrew earlier than that. >> That's perfect. >> Okay. Um the rest I guess we go to the

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next page. Um 2.8 what we could or cannot um consider waiverss. >> Yes. because the owner was saying that they're at their discretion and I'm not disagreeing with your language.

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I just want to confirm that's what Yeah. So, I deleted or written waiver by owner because it seemed like they wouldn't get waivers for these things. >> Okay. And then uh 2.9

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that's the the the general conversation on uh transfer of rights which we talked a bit about and you'll take another uh look at that. Uh let's see 3.2 I had a question. It says owner

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shall use commercially commercially reasonable efforts to obtain and maintain all government approval. And um I just was um unfamiliar with that phrase. So >> that's a standard legal phrase and so I

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put an explanation below that to give context. >> Yeah. >> Okay. So that's standard. Okay. Um the next one 3.8 8. It's um public way utility rights. In the middle it says to obtain public way utility rights in

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Dubberry and Kingston. And I question Dubberry, but I would agree with you that there could be something in Dubberry. So, there'd be no harm in leaving Dubberry. >> I think so. No. >> Okay.

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Um 3.91 let's see you uh limited which is good uh the the conversation about connections to Kingston. >> Yes. So I deleted without imposing

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operational maintenance or capacity obligations on owner. >> Yes. >> Yeah. We that was a car we all had the other day. >> That's good. >> Uh 5.2. Um I had put in based on cons consumption records of the town of Dubberry.

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Oh, I put based on town of Dubberry water consumption records. Um, now you put should this be based on owner's consumption records, >> right?

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>> They would they have town they have town water, right? >> They do. >> So, we we were just looking at they have town water and they'd be getting a water bill and that would be in line with how Kingston bills. >> Okay. This would be for for the user

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fees for the >> what what comes in what goes out. >> Okay. So the bill is based on Okay, that makes sense to me. >> Okay. >> And just so you're clear, we want we talked about having one meter

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that our superintendent, our people here that do the the work of this, there'd be one meter that would be we would we would be would be calibrated. We'd know how much water the entire We would have meters on every single house is my point. >> We So we have one meter. That's what

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goes in and they figure out who gets paid >> and our superintendent, our staff can direct derive the bills from that one meter. We send them one bill. Just as long as that's clear. We don't want to have 100 bills. >> Yeah. >> Okay.

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>> And if they don't pay their user fees, I don't know if it's implied, but we can put a lean on the property. because we don't know >> that was the statute I asked you about and so I added language here that any unpaid rates and charges

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um will be subject to a lean in accordance with chapter 83 section 16B which as long as the town has accepted the provisions related to putting leans on um properties in adjacent towns then that would be allowed >> and we have I checked with the town

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clerk that we've we adopted those >> Liz can we just go back real quick to 4.1 this just to tie back to our allocated capacity. So that we have the flow the words that were in here originally is the flow discharge shall not exceed the allocated capacity. I want to make sure that you're thinking

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about the allocated capacity is not 44,000. It's the number of actual flow. >> Okay. >> Yeah. Let me flag that for my own. It gets back to that somewhere around

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25,000ish is a maximum flow really >> that's that that's good. >> Okay. Um 5.54 um it says the section shall survive any amendment to the sewer rules and regulations and shall control in the

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event of a conflict. I just really I need just an explanation on that which you said it's fine. >> Yeah. >> And you made edits in the next section. >> So that should take care of that. >> Uh 7.7 that's all with the vesting. I

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think we've if if you need any more um input. >> Yeah. So I'll I'll add a comment to myself here too. And now that I have understanding of that um >> okay >> I can to tweak that appropriately.

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>> And 8.2 is you added the line in about the um insurance which is good. 9.1 the record retention additions and 11.1 with the governing law

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and then 11.2 the assignment again of capacity. So that'll all go in with the other thought process. >> Yeah. So I'll put here that they could assign um the rights in the development

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but not for different use. >> Okay. And that's >> that covers it. I >> think that's good. >> I think it's good. >> Do you have Liz's email that I can just send her this? Um, >> yes,

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>> I actually do. >> It's very easy to remember. >> It is. And I have it right. Okay, here we go. >> I want to put it on the so everybody in the world knows it. >> Yeah, let's not do that. >> I'll just send this to you right now.

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Um Dave, you have anything you want to add, subtract? >> Uh I think we've covered everything as far as um the quantities that's going to be covered by the meter. >> Yeah. >> U collecting the fees if there was any

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sort of issues coming down the road that we'll have that ability to put a lean on it. So I think that covers us. Um yeah, I think that covers everything. All the engineering is going to get approved by CDM prior,

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>> right? >> Um so I didn't know if there was anything connecting the um pending approval of our engineer based on all this agreement that it has to be

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engineer and approved by our CDM or We could put that in there and say it covered under se a separate >> just to cover us that you know if we see whatever they're proposing or planning that it doesn't agree with our engineers

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that it's going to overload our um pump station or subsequent ones that there might be some upgrades that need to take place because of it. Okay. >> That maybe there's a revisit of I don't know how we'd word that into this, but

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>> so under section 3.4, inspection and acceptance, um, we could put something at the end of that. It says, "Kingston shall have the right to inspect the work. No connection shall be activated until Kingston issues

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written acceptance." Do you want it to be before that though in the design? Let me just read through that on a shelf >> because we also have 3.1 for design review. So I would think it would go

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either in 3.1 or 3.4. >> Yeah. So I guess it is called out in 3.1 for Kingston's review and approval. Yeah, >> that's sufficient for >> I think so because that's not limiting us to just CDM. It would be you as well or the board. >> Okay.

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>> I think that's that's a good generalization that >> we all need to agree. >> Yes. >> Yeah. Okay. >> Brian, >> I'm sorry. I just said this. >> Okay. >> You have anything?

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>> No, I think I was set with the most of this. Um, and as as far as the metering process, how do we how would we go about we'd have to address that individually with say the owner provides us with their quarterly bills? >> Uh, 5.2. Let's see.

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Shall Kingston shall build the owner directly for all charges associated with the sewer service based on consumption records. So, we can get a copy. I would think we the process may be get a copy of Dubberry's bill, turn it around and

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send it to them with our calculations for sewer >> based on our sewer uh rules and regulations sewer rates. >> But it's just on one meter, >> right? >> Master meter. Yeah. >> Right. >> Um should we probably say master meter? >> Yeah.

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Make it clear. >> One master meter. >> Yeah. Certainly. You don't want to be going through a hundred different >> No. No. >> Right. >> And we cal we get that calibrated. >> Mhm. >> And then we talked about having our CDM is going to look at our meters for the

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sewage in inflow because it'll be dedicated to compare them. >> Yeah. >> Okay. Liz for 5.2 after it says based on consumption records. Can we add of one master meter

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or something to that effect for the for the development? >> Okay, thank you. >> We good? I sounds like we're good. >> Yeah, I think so. >> Thank you.

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>> I'll make those changes and send it back to you for review. >> Okay, sounds good. And I just sent you that uh language that I promised. >> Hopefully got to you. >> Let me check. >> Yes.

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>> Good. Thank you. Good job. >> Thanks. >> Thanks. >> You can enjoy the rest of the night now. >> You too. >> Yeah. Thanks a lot. >> Thank you. Okay. Bye. >> Okay. Five o'clock a joint meeting with the

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water commissioners. Basically, we're here to um talk about uh town allocated costs jointly. >> You want to? >> Yeah. Wherever you if you join us at the table. >> Yeah, you might as well. >> You want to move this way and they can

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have those two? Absolutely. >> There's three of them. So, >> I'll just if Brian slides over Yeah. Yeah. >> Brian, slide over one. We'll all do over one. You want to take down the end so all the water's on one end or that's

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fine. >> No, I think you're good for you. You want to call your meeting to order and then >> we we just had our meeting. joint.

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>> What do you think we need to do? >> We are calling the joint sewer water commission meeting to order here at 5:00. >> Sounds good. Okay. So basically um over the past year or so we've um

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we all being an enterprise fund each enterprise fund is um uses town services that the town bills us for. They're referred to as town allocated costs and we get build for services provided

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by accounting, the treasurer, the selectman's office, a variety of different departments that um do some work for each enterprise fund separately and jointly. So, we started

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to look at jointly looking at the allocated costs on what uh we're each paying for. And it appears that percentages

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for time spent by town employees, not enterprise fund employees, but town employees, um seem for at least wastewater could be a little bit excessive. Uh, for example,

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let's see. I just want to make sure I don't misquote something. For the accounting department, we're being assessed uh $21,938. Um Dave's favorite is IT. We're being

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charged $86,571 for its total budget uh which is says 20% of salary uh 3% of salary 20% of expenses. So when you take into consideration the water department and and wastewater,

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we're paying a substantial portion of uh the town budgets based on what we feel um uh may be estimates that are too high. I did I capture that correctly? Uh

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so if I can just add a few comments to that to kind of piggyback off Elaine's comments. uh as a department we obviously if we incur some expenses that uh we should be re reimbursing the town for we are all about taking care of our

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fair share. Um certainly this is relatively new to me. Uh this will be my third year in this role and uh prior to this year. Last year was really my first time to really see these things come

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across and specifically this year actually looking closer at them instead of passing the cost through and really digging into some of this stuff has kind of been an eye openener for me. So, um,

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if, like I say, if they're fair shares, let's let's contribute and do our fair share. But there are certainly some things I have questions on. And, you know, I went into the, um, actually Jeannie provided this information from

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DLS. It talks about the enterprise funds uh general law 44 53F and a half and it specifically talks about indirect costs. Uh in this discussion it talks about that

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each year these things should be discussed between the enterprise funds and the town and come up with what's reasonable agree on it well before budget time. And you know I don't think we've had an opportunity to do that

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especially this year. Um we were just given our town allocated cost maybe a week ago week and a half ago. So it says in the recommendations that the bureau recommends that every community with an enterprise fund establish a written internal policy

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regarding indirect cost allocations and should review this policy annually. The policy should be reasonable and calculated on a fair and consistent basis. Local financial officials should understand and agree on what indirect

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costs are. um what indirect costs are appropriated as part of the general fund operating budget and what percentage of these costs should be allocated to the enterprise fund. So again, being new at this, I'd love an explanation on what

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these costs are so we can after tonight get our thoughts together and see which direction we go to get some of our questions answered. So, in the package that I handed out to you, um, anyone else should have specifically

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for our department, one thing that really caught my eye was the category for information technology. So, in that in one of the boxes under it, it

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says 20% EXP. I imagine that's 20% expenses. um and 3% salary. So, we had asked the town accountant

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for a list of the budget for the IT department and some other departments. So, we weren't given all the information we requested, but if you look in that packet and specifically go to the IT budget,

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I'll let you get a hold of that one. >> 27. >> Yeah. So, it's information technology FY27 budget template up top >> and down below I've got some pencled in that that's my pencil work at the bottom. So, if we're following along

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with this and I look at the IT budget, something that really caught my eye was um internet service. So if you look at that, it's $50,000 for a townwide internet.

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So if you take $50,000 and we're paying 20% of that, that's $10,000. So we have two computers up at our office and town hall.

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comes out to $833 a month for >> is it 20% or 120th? >> So this is a thing if if you look at the town allocated cost sheet that was given to us by

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by the town accountant. Our over our overall IT budget is 85,000 have my glasses on. You see that number? 85571.

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>> 86571. >> Is that a six? >> Yeah, I think it's a six. >> 86571. >> When you try and print these on one piece of paper, writing gets awfully small. So, if you follow along with me on just

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the IT budget alone, and if you follow, and this is how I'll answer your question, if you follow each one of the line items, it's computer equipment repairs, security system repairs and maintenance, software license, computer system, munice lease, website expense,

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consultant services. If I take all those line items which is comes out to for FY26 was 430,000 356 and FY27 was 448,856

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out of those numbers. So if you go to let's just for easy math we'll go to FY27 $448,000 is the IT budget in town. And our department is covering that 86,000

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571 >> just waste water or both >> just wastewater >> and we will be >> and that's it >> the last >> caring about

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>> the last page in your packet It for you guys for it is that >> mine is >> is 89,771 >> the 20 cents. >> Yeah. >> Yep. >> Don't forget the 20 cents.

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>> 30 cents counts. >> 89771. >> See, it seems like uh the two >> uh bud turn your microphone on. >> Yeah. seems like the two uh enterprise

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funds are being assessed way over where the percentage should be given the amount of uh IT services we we are currently needing and you know we've asked it according to what Stacy said we've tried to get the

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this information uh prior from the town accountant and have been unsuccessful in getting any explanation that is understandable on how they come up with these costs. >> I think, you know, it's something that,

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you know, we need to look at as the two uh enterprise funds, but it's also something the town needs to look at is how they're allocating costs to the appropriate young departments. Not saying that the cost is wrong. I'm not saying that. But it shouldn't be uh

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assessed against the sewer or the water in in disproportionate percentages. >> Agreed 100%. >> So I I've been curious is what some of the other departments pay um for it and I reached out to the the police station

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and the police station has a substantial amount of computers and technology in their building. They pay $13,000 a year for it. >> Yeah, that's crazy. >> And and that's the funny part. like I'm you know water like us

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um all our IT equipment IT software is at the plant and that's 100% controlled paid for independent of these town allocated costs and we have two computers at town hall so >> we have three

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>> no we we have we have four computers and a laptop that I pay uh $89,000 a year for so and and I just find it kind of um interesting that I pay more the water department pays more for IT services

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than we do for liability, property and insurance, fleet insurance for all our assets. We pay $88,000 for insurance, but yet we pay 89771 for it. That that's just we have four computers and one laptop. All our skater

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stuff is independent, paid inhouse. Our copier is an independent contract outside of it. So I I don't understand how they come to this figure and we try and get a solid breakdown of what are we actually paying for and we can never get an answer. So >> you know I I'll agree that if the

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services that we use if it's is and it's and you see the other breakdowns if it's for munice if it's for whatever >> that's fine but I don't like you know Dave's saying for just for internet that's I mean >> so safe to assume that we probably won't

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get a satisfying answer for why the numbers that high. What's our what's our options here? Do we we need to I guess I don't want to answer that question myself here because because I might jump the gun what we could should >> if I can just continue just a little bit

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and then we could roll into that is >> you had asked about you know how do I come up with these numbers. I just took what might be 23 or so departments in town. >> Mhm. >> And not including the school department,

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I actually narrowed it down to 20 departments just for easy math. >> And on that IT sheet that you have there, my pencil work is basically taking each one of those line items and dividing by 20

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departments. Mhm. >> So for repairs, if I take the IT budget of 7500 for computer equipment repairs and maintenance. >> Yep. >> The original budget item they have is

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7500. I divide that by 20 departments. Our contribution should be 375. >> And I've done that for each line item. If I go down one by one, I feel that our contribution should be

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in the range of $22,000 as opposed to $89,000. Unless someone explains these numbers differently and opens my eyes to something I'm not seeing, I see a $67,000

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increase in what should be, I think, a reasonable ask. Mhm. >> So again, I, you know, to your point, where do we go from here? >> Um, I'm open to suggestions. I feel like

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we've asked for information in the past and haven't gotten the information we need. >> So perhaps um, you know, the next step is we reach out to Scott and say, "Look, this is this is where we're at at this point. uh we need to help both

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departments to figure out what are the numbers what are the calculations and it's all written out you know as far as the state's concerned for enterprise funds that this stuff should be forthcoming >> and we should have sunlight on it whatever it happens to be let's let's be

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fair and equitable >> joint jointly that's that's where we get the home that we need >> you know this is big number >> oh yeah >> you look back at 10 years go backwards It's a real big gun, >> right? And and I think going forward is what we're looking for. I don't know if we're looking for pounds of flesh from

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that gun on the bridge. >> And I will say some other items I've seen look fairly accurate. So there's some stuff that maybe I'm just not seeing things right, and that's fine, but you know, let's let's get to the end on this. And >> I'm looking to meet with the new town manager next week sometime as I'm off

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that whole week. I'd love to be able to go in there with a little more understanding because this is a lot right right off the top here. Um I don't know if if uh a summary of what you've done that could be put together

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just to be a little more digestible. >> So I can give you a quick explanation of the package and whatever is not explainable I can certainly run you down it. So um in your packet is the individual

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uh budgets for the IT department for FY26 and FY27. >> It also would have the assessors. >> Mhm. >> Let me see.

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>> Assessors the the accounting department >> the assessors department. the collector's department resources that's all >> treasurers department HR um IT and then we're waiting on our

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Maya numbers for insurance and liability. >> Okay, >> we have ones from 2024 I think it was but we don't have the most recent 25 26 27. I say you made some just some

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guesstimates as to what that would be. >> Yeah. In fact, in that packet, you'll see there should be a sheet from Maya. >> Yeah. >> Yep. >> And again, on the bottom of that sheet, so this this one was dated September

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7th, 2023. >> Mhm. Um Keith had reached out and it has water, sewer, school, town, and the total for our insurance including workman's comp. And

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then you got the total on the bottom. What I did with that too is I just extrapolated out a guess at this point. For 2025, I did an 8% increase. 2026 8% increase. 2027 8% increase.

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So, I've got a guesstimate of where we should be >> probably, >> but where that actually is. Hopefully, we'll get some information shortly on that. But I think reaching out to Keith may help >> get some of these Scott.

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>> Oh, sorry. >> So, Scott Freud, >> in terms of the town allocated costs, obviously it is a major red flag out there. Were there any other of the costs that you think were out of out of line?

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>> That was the biggest difference I saw. I mean, you look at you look at our the water department's breakdown, the allocated cost and everything ranges from 2% to 6%. And then you get to

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>> the information the it audits 20%. Now >> I see the we have the wastewater town allocated cost. Is there a water department one too? I want to see one that looks like this. Send that down. This >> Oh, if you look at the very last page,

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it should be on it. >> Yeah, I've got I've gotten these things all mixed up now. >> Yeah, >> it's highlighted. It's highlighted at the top of it, I think. Or >> the water department. This one. >> Yeah, that one. >> That one. >> Okay, that's the one. Okay. All right.

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Yeah, I highlighted that. >> Okay. All right. Yeah, just a little different format. >> Ours 26. >> That's those numbers from here. >> That's waste water or what?

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>> 513. >> This is waste water. >> 781. No, that's the >> that's the that's the wrong one. That was the first one that she did. >> This was the revised one that she wanted to sign for a total of 517 290. >> That's This is still wasteful. That's

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what the total share cost is. It's >> 517. >> So even even that one is slightly different. >> Chris has a more accurate one. This was sent out and then she sent a revised one. >> That was the first one that was sent out and then about an hour later she sent

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out a revised one. >> Yeah. >> Because she hadn't finalized um I think it was the insurance. >> Was it? >> Yeah, that would make sense. So going forward, um what if um

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>> Dave and Chris or Stacy and Jeie, whatever you think's you need to pull together to give, uh Bob some more >> detailed summary information >> for the meeting. And if you want anybody I know it's your separate meeting you

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touch base and then let us know the outcome because if these costs are reduced which >> there does look like there's some opportunities for a reduction for both both enterprise funds that increases the town's operating budget. >> Yeah. >> So that would

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>> right >> that's the offset for that >> say speaking as the devil's advocate or otherwise known as town council um where's this other money going to come from from their budget? They'd have to do some s some searching as well. >> Correct. >> Yeah. >> Correct. They might have to look at the, you know, IT budget at the whole and

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find out whether or not the IT budget is >> is where it should be or is it >> bloated >> accidentally inflated. >> Right. >> We won't call it bloated. We won't call it on purpose. It might be accidentally inflated. >> That you know they may be using the same

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>> process for years and >> it just flows. But now it's >> it's also important that we have the correct cost so that when we're looking at rates whether they're sewer rates or water rates that we we're using the most current data and so that we can

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formulate a rate that is correct with what's happening >> and and it it comes out too that in addition to each of our customers paying these town allocated costs, they're also paying for these costs through their real estate taxes, >> right? So they're getting charged

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through their real estate taxes for the operating budget and then water sewer customers are independently being charged for the same >> which is part of an enterprise fund. But that comparison is >> important as well. So >> minus. >> So just just adding up the the

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wastewater uh IT expense and the water department IT expense that's $176,342 just between the two enterprise accounts for it. in that total budget's like 4 >> 448 448. So we're paying almost half of it

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>> for five computers. >> Y >> yeah. >> And I just think there's that's just a major discrepancy that >> and and again the explanation is what we're looking for in the the calculations, the formulas, however they arrived at their numbers, we've been

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trying to get but haven't, like Bud said, haven't been successful. on his >> and and if you look at the way, you know, Chris, the information Chris got from the police department, the way they're doing it, you know, it might be better off for, you know, our two departments to look at doing it the same

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way. But that's something we need to talk to the town administrator about because this is going to change may change the whole way the financial climate is looked at from a townwide basis. >> Well, that's it. like Brian had

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mentioned early on, you know, maybe we outsource an accountant and >> have them look at our books and then maybe once a month say okay to to town account. >> Yeah. >> You know, just validate it. You can't take them out totally. But, >> you know, for maybe an hour's worth on

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the town side and we pay jointly >> or even outsourcing our IT work. I mean, do we have to be part of the town? I mean, this is something that we might want to be take on our own because this we can do it so much more efficiently than what this seems to be done be done. >> Exactly. So, I think this is this is a

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good uh >> good avenue to get us where we can hopefully be. >> So, what I'll do is um expect to maybe hear from Chris and you guys from whatever numbers you see out there and maybe come in and chat with you sometime later this week or early next week. Get

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>> a little lowown >> before I head in to chat with >> Do does one of you want to join me? uh what in a meeting we can kind of >> get this on both sides or >> what do you have a date already set? >> Not yet. So, >> okay. Let me let me know. >> Yeah, I'm open all next week. So, I just

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gave them >> Yeah. So, I'll find out and then let you know. Okay. >> So, so you then >> All right. Thanks. I'll make sure I'm in touch. So, just looking at this uh document that I have from what the police pay to MX Consultant for

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services, they pay uh $3250 each quarter. So, if you break down, we're paying this, they're paying 3,00 $3,250 for every three months of service. We're paying $22,442 every three months for service.

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>> Yeah. And if you look at the number of you know computers and uh support equipment that the police department needs compared to what sewer has or what the water department has you know they far

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exceed what uh our combined department >> so you know >> what we have in the sewer street plant we pay separately as you guys do. So we have a big number we're doing independently of this. Mhm. >> So it's it's not just 89,000. It's 89,000 for I I look at it our way. It's

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89,000 plus. >> Yeah. >> It's 89,000 plus what another 100,000, right? Something like that. >> Yeah. I just like to and I've asked in the past years just to get a breakdown of what that IT bill is. Break it down. You know, you go into a restaurant, you

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get an itemized bill. >> Let's get an itemized bill of what what what are we paying for? You know, is it for telephones? Is it for a server? Is it for munis? Is it whatever it's for? You know, but we can't get that. No, no one seems to be able to produce that to us.

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>> So, there is a to that point too, there is a software license listed here 73,000. There's also a separate MUNS lease. So we obviously use MUNS but outside of MUNS if this is something like uh you

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know the another department's licensing agreements we shouldn't be covering a portion of that. So certainly to Chris's point we need we need a breakdown >> but that's all we're ask for. Just a simple breakdown to itemize to see what what bring us to this total.

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>> Mhm. And if there's a formula that they're using out there to disperse these expenses across different departments, what's that formula? And I've asked in the past, I've never been able to get a response. It's so this how it's done. It's >> or at least an acknowledgement that there isn't a formula. They just kind of have been winging it and we need to

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>> let's come up with one. >> Yep. >> You know, is it a matter that you look at what your expenses are townwide and then with the shortfall get split between sewer and water? I don't know. >> Mhm. So >> on this point as well the uh the

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calculations I did with 120th 20 different departments I did not include the school department. So I don't know if in this cost are we covering the school department's IT budget. >> Mhm. So if the town's budget for it is

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448,000 and we're covering 176,000, the rest of the town is paying 272 272,000. So we're we're nearly half seems a little bit disproportioned. Agreed.

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>> I don't see I don't have any real concerns with a lot of the other things. They seem like they're in line. they're proportioned appropriately, but you know, the IT stands out, you know, for the services that we utilize. And I not to sound like a broken record, but as Brian said and Dave said,

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>> the majority of our computer and IT is our SCADA and that's an independent, separate contract, separate equipment. It doesn't have anything to do with those computers. It's there's too many layers of >> cyber security stuff that we need to maintain. And you know, to like like everybody

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else, I I'm looking for detail like the audit. We're paying 20% of the audit and that's 11,000. I think it's 800. Um what's the total bill? Just send us a copy of the audit bill

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and you know, are we 20% of the report? Just things like that. And it again sit down explanation, we can move forward. We we pay 12,200 for audit. >> What's your percent? >> Do you have a percent? >> Uh 20%.

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>> Okay. So, between the two of us, we're paying 40% of an audit. >> Mhm. >> For the whole town. >> For the whole town, >> apparently >> because I haven't seen >> on the surface. >> Let's get deep into it. Right. >> Okay. Sounds like we have a game plan.

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>> Yep. Yep. >> All right. And I whatever you need to do to get prepared for next week, whatever resources you need, you feel free. So we

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can we can reach out between each other and try and figure out >> what information we need to get. Um should we try and set up a meeting ahead of schedule with Scott at this point?

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>> I want to meet together first. Okay. >> And kind of get on the same page first year. So, I'm going to hold off on any meeting with him till later on in the week. I think next week. >> So, if you guys want to meet even earlier on Monday or Tuesday, I'm open to whatever your guys' schedule is. >> Probably Tuesday. Monday's the holiday.

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>> Oh, yeah. >> The holiday. Oh, yeah. >> Yeah. Monday's holiday in Massachusetts. >> Just be mindful with um timing for posting of meetings. >> So, we have time. >> Well, if if we're just meeting, we don't need to. That's why I wanted to keep board members. You mean just that it's

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>> if I'm in involved it's two separate committees. >> Yep. Yeah. So, it should be good. >> But >> should we make a motion that um I represent >> Yeah. I'll make a motion that Elaine as our chair be represent the sewer

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commission at this meeting with the town administrator. >> Second. All in favor? >> I just safe side. I'll make a motion to have Bob, the authorized representative for the water department, meet jointly

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with the sewer commission to review the allocated costs and any other associated financial u conditions that may arise as these discussions occur. Seconded and so voted for us, too. All

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right. Um, yeah. Uh, do we want to just do a little email chain and make an appointment for us next week? That might be the best use of our time. >> Okay. >> All righty. >> Is it who moves that? >> Make a motion to adjourn.

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>> Motion to get two seconds. >> I don't know. >> All in favor? >> I. Yes.