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Video-1: youtube.com/watch?v=zfM-TYaLHBY

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Seeing that it's six o'clock, I will call the wage and personnel um committee to order. Uh Monday, July 20th. Um in attendance is our newest member, Paul Basler. Uh myself, Jim Su, our executive

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secretary, Jennifer. uh Tina, our director of human resources, and present is uh Melissa, who'll be before the board tonight, as well as our uh town administrator, Scott Lia. So, what we'll do is go right through the agenda. Um

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the meeting is being recorded by Zoom. Anyone intending to make an audio video recording of the meeting should notify the chair at this time. Items may be taken out of order at the discretion of the chair. Um, I think I'm going to stay with the agenda because we do have to reorganize the board and I'll do that at the end. This way you guys can get out

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of here as far as that goes. Um, so the first item on the uh agenda is appointment. Uh, make sure I say your last name. Rousel. >> Russell. >> Russell. Okay. Thank you. Melissa Russell, facilities assistant energy manager, Scotland BAC town administrator. And Carol McCoy is not

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here yet. >> I'll watch for her. >> Okay. We'll keep an eye for her. uh the finance director at time to discuss the stipen for the position of energy manager for FY2027. Okay. Um >> yeah, I'm just wondering if she's

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texting somebody. >> I just I just heard something go wrong. That's why I said >> All right. Well, it's real simple. Um when Carol joins, we'll be fine. So, um let's see. You have the floor. Um, we

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all have your emails um and uh request and um if you could give us a little history uh about the position and um the basic reasoning for the request. Um we're all ears.

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>> Um I took the position three years ago about just three years ago and I've been doing it obviously for that long period of time when I took it as it cames with it. the way it is and I didn't know what other people do in uh or getting infor

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um once I get to it I it comes with a lot of details and preparation and management and grant apply and and coordinating and meeting on site and I think I break it down in my request uh

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each um tax come with it And when I found out other people that what they making like uh $7.99 for this year uh the executive secretary and I ask um how come I'm making less

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than others and they say because they attend meeting which is I do also attend meeting so I request to get the same amount as everybody else. Uh also um I think it was approved and I in the fin $9,000 for the position uh

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but I'm asking just to be equally with other side in that they do similar job to what I do and I'm open to any question if you have >> well um

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which and let me give you my background a little it uh you know I did uh one term on the finance committee and one of the things that happened during our term uh was when there is Carol

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>> still the beach >> yeah the color looks great on you [laughter] >> um uh Melissa just went over the request what she's looking for and so forth um But the point I was trying to make was when Brad was a facilities manager, one

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of the things he did was he put a um grant together, a program for uh bulbs in the town. Paul will remember this >> and uh believe that it saved approximately $50,000

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that year in energy costs. And um I I was responsible in the finance committee for this budget. So coming for the next year, I knew what was going to happen. They were going to take 50 grand away because he saved it. And I said to him,

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I said, "Brad, listen." I said, "In my world, private industry, somebody does that for me, I write him a check because I appreciate the fact of what they did. Can't do that here." And I said, "But what we can do is figure out in your position what you have and what you need and then I'll fight for you with the

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committee to get you." And we did. Uh I said you'll lose a piece but you're not going to lose the whole thing if we So uh so I'm well aware of some of the things that happen. My my question is and Paul jump in any time um about can

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you give me some idea of hours as the energy manager in terms of week a year? >> Yeah it varies and they ask so like I put in when I I came every day like uh early in the morning I leave late. So

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like say uh 2 hours uh a day 3 hours but when the project start after hours I get phone calls I have to go to coronated I go to school like for instance the last year our project was in the school the elementary school so it was coronated

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was a little challenging because during the morning hours the school is open and we can't so it was after hours all the time so that's where you get I I can be reaching my phone now that I have a laptop I can email and reach and coordinate those hours as I go. So

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that's how the hours it goes. >> What was the project? >> Um installation. >> Ah okay. And >> there yeah we walk we have I have because the engineering and all of that. So we walk with them and see what's what it needs or hear them what they

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complain. So there is what gap in between the doors and stuff like that. So during the storm the the snow will be in the hallway and they say they shovel it and so we had uh the engineer there we walk we do the walk through and then we did weatherization and installation

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all around the buildings >> and uh it was forund something,000 last year. Yeah, the grant that was a grant that we had. Uh the right >> uh I prepare it and I have old colony

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helps to submit. I prepare I give them the report. I give them all all the details. They ask me I give them the detail. They submit the grant and then they we get approved and I have the letter but I thought you told me we're not going to talk about the grant. >> Well said the grant as it relates to the

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job, >> right? not the grant of self but the fact that you had to prepare all the information and getting >> and again I remember when I dealt with Brad with his issue it was the same >> so I understand you know I was just trying to verify what that was

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>> um >> I mean if you need anything like the letter the grant how you can email it to you and I have it but I didn't bring anything about the grant grant because I was told we're not going to talk about the grant >> that's fine that's fine um do do we have any idea yet in terms a savings as a

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result of >> Oh, we are in the million-dollar club, town of Kingston. The million-dollar club. >> What does that mean? >> So, we had project made through the years. Of course, uh I'm not going to take credit for through the years, but we can apply every year up to 100 or uh

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$125 uh,000 to do whatever energy efficiency that the town need. uh for instance the prior year or three years ago we did the charging station which is that's uh was a grant and then now we just manage it

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we don't do anything uh about like u repair or something we have a a charging point that they watch we have it in the cloud so like if you drive in by kinston and it will show up in your app and you charge it what I did I managed that we get the revenue they send it to I'll get

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the invoices or the revenue I submit and I process it and I put it in a treasure. I mean I'm not going to tell you that I don't get rich by that. It's not it's a level two charging station but we get revenue >> and then we process it as we go. I

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manage also if we can raise uh how much is charging per hour or something. So I just raise it three cents [laughter] a few uh months ago. So that's what I do and that's what that's the benefit for Kingston. It's not like I'm not going to

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tell you that we making million dollar from those charging station last year was talk about the upgrade them at the time didn't have the appetite to pay any penny from uh the money but when we had someone which is the vendor approach the

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prior town administrator and tell them there's no cost to the town and when I look into it they say no cost to the town unless there's change in infrastructure which is I know it's going to be changes especially in as a

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library because if it's level three is going to need more power and we have to upgrade it at the time don't have for that. >> Yeah. So >> they turn it down afterwards and I mean they have advertise for that that's what

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we can do in the future and I make it clear to them it was a selectment decision and they decide at this time they're not ready. >> Um what projects are we working on this year? Um I'm working on lighting and we haven't started. We just did the walk through uh at the library um to make it

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like this energy efficiency at the library. We did the library. I'm working and see if the grant will be eligible for windows at the fire station and the console and agent also um lighting.

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>> Okay. So uh library, fire station and lighting is on your plate this year. No library, the consolation, lighting, >> um the fire station is windows windows, right? >> The ceiling windows and the rebuilding.

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>> Okay. The rebuilding as well. >> Yes. >> Okay. >> But uh that's not promising. We just apply and see what's legible and then >> still but it but it goes to my point of work. >> Oh, >> this hasn't happened magic. >> Yeah. And I have the schedule for the

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work I did to the engineering and stuff like that and the timeline and stuff like that if you guys want a copy of that. >> I was just trying to get a feel for the >> and her her work doesn't end when the projects are over. She has a lot of time throughout the year and she has a report that is going to be submitted to the

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state which is >> a daunting project that I'm glad somebody else is here to do it. >> These must have been a long time. >> Mhm. I can remember when this first came to the town was a $5,000 site to you. Uh

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town planets home bought was the original person that had this and then they try to get passed down. I remember in time when they couldn't find anybody to do it. >> No. >> So they asked Melissa to do it. >> In my time working here, I used to give

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her the information, do some of the reports you talk about because we were in charge of all the gas and stuff like that and >> propane gas propane vehicle energy. Mhm. >> And uh I for one glad she does it because I don't know who else would do it.

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>> Talk to um any questions. >> Uh I I I don't know what the executive assistants job description looks like and what that >> it's not like my job descript but that's similar. I don't know what to compare myself to. So that's the only thing I

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can compare myself to but it's not >> it's similar. >> Right. So executive systems are for the boards, right? So Jennifer's one, you know, CPA has one. There's a handful of them that do what have you. >> Um, so minutes, agendas,

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you know, working on their own. Some of them have jobs here like Melissa does. So they have to do this work outside of that time. >> Um, >> I mean, >> they're they all have a different cadence. >> Yeah. you know, uh, finance committee

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from October even all the way October to to April is, >> you know, straight up. >> Um, Jennifer, we get we get very busy in the late spring. It's no, don't take that very busy too seriously. [laughter]

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>> I promise you this was a minute to this. >> Yeah. Uh but no, she gets very busy as we get to uh both spring town meeting and fall and um so there there's a lot I I see what's happening but I'm

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>> when I first saw the request I said well what does this have to do executive and that was the first thing that p but that's no no you don't have to defend anything I just wanted to hear >> uh what you're doing >> let me add something I work all year

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around not like executive and it's it get busier when the project is done. the phone call and the email and the coordinator. I get busier but I work all year around as Scott mentioned after that I have the report we're going to get email for the yearly report for the

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town which is the propane they have to reject all department head to give me like I don't know how much they use so I rely on the department head and I get the report for them and I submit that and then insurance uh our vehicles we buy new vehicles like I think last year

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or the prior year uh the fire department buy million dollars truck or something like that you was and this year highway department buy something. So those has to be all updated and to them to the state to see how you know our report for

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for the town of Afghanistan and this is all through the years if it's not project it will be report if it's not report will be grant if it's not this it's that. all year round. It's not like certain amount. >> I would also like to add and one of the

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reasons why Carol is here to talk a little bit more about how the money part of the grant works. Like I feel that this manager position is truly a manager position because the executive secretaries that she's comparing the salary to, they have chairs that are

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saying do this, I need this, whatever. this role runs it all like you know the finance not the finance the uh facilities director isn't telling her what to do it's the grant and those people or whatever that's you know they're working together collaboratively I don't know how the money part of it

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works Carol but and I didn't really talk about this with Scott but I see a higher amount than the executive assistants because there is a management level to it >> also the grant uh give us 10% uh of like we applied for the grant as I said last

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year was 186. So 10% of that goes back to administrative administrative cost which is a split between me and the old colony uh that they help. Yeah. So mine uh Carol she can speak on that they get

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transferred to the free cash because the town already pay me right. >> Yes. So I did and uh Karen can clarify that how it works but they give uh I sent her an email she told me how it's ended and they apply it to the precache.

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>> Uh someone taught me a long time ago when you want to know how the for running as the driver. >> So that's why I'm talking to you. Thank >> so uh I appreciate the the the insight. Um are there any are you active in any grants right now? >> Yeah. Well we just start the pro

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starting the season. Uh we just start I just meet with the engineer a couple times and we did the walk through. We went to all the buildings that I just mentioned and now I'm waiting on them. So they already Oh actually we also have the wire department. So they already

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submit to the eversource to see how much we can get incentive towards the which is other part of it. We apply for incentive they give us certain amount towards the you know the project. So I'm waiting on demo was just a couple weeks ago. So I'm waiting in the scope to tell

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me and how much we're going to get incentive and then we process it by October we have submit or something like that. So we're working on it. Yeah. As we speak. >> Can you do anything about our energy bills? [laughter] >> That's right. >> Um okay. No, that's that's fine. Carol,

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do you have anything you want to add? No, just that um you know, a portion of the stipen is reimbursed by the grant. You know, I think we got $3,500 uh this time around going right to the

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general fund. So, no other like the executive secretary positions don't have that opportunity to make money. >> Right. Right. Understood. Understood. Um the um Scott, anything you want to add?

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>> No, I like I said, I mean, it's the the benefit to the town is incredible when you look at um a the town at some point decided to become a green community and this is a requirement of that. But >> so the the money that the town gets

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back, we we wouldn't we wouldn't be eligible for it if we didn't have somebody doing the work that she's doing. Okay. And and just one last question. The million-dollar club, what is that? >> Does uh that we can like uh every year

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that uh the town apply for that money, how much money the child saved for the town through the years, not I'm not taking the credit because I start >> three years ago. So it was prior to me. So until they get to that club which is

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where the where they have done for the town that's how much amount they >> and then that allows you benefits to apply for different grants or bigger grants or more grants. >> No this just okay >> we are in that limit. Yeah.

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>> I was just curious if there's a benefit you know fiscally for the town. That's why I'm asking. No, we are in that limit. >> So over over the past 20 years or so, we've >> received a million dollars. >> Yeah. Yeah. Prior to me, like Yeah.

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>> I The question I have is Okay, I know what the stipen pay is now. What? I don't know what an executive secretary typing ball figure. >> It's 7,900. >> I I She gave you He gave her the the new >> new bylaws there.

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>> I read that wrong because I saw something. >> You pull up the bylaws there. >> Okay. >> All right. Um, so yeah, that's just that's me. Sorry. >> So, um, >> okay. >> The, uh, any other questions?

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>> Well, since Carol's the money maker. >> Carol on money counter. [laughter] What is a a $8,000 stipen on a million dollar budget project? Is that >> very little?

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>> Well, the return is huge. >> Yeah. 10% is 100 grand. >> Right. >> If 10% of the million dollars could be used for administration, that gives you that. >> No, I'm saying over the course of her time here, >> right? I understood >> with a little what we paid her, she's selling benefits to the town,

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>> right? No, I I don't have any issues. So, what I would propose, okay, is uh first of all, good job. >> Okay, you've done a great job >> answering my question. Um, I would propose a motion that we um move the

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facilities assistant um rather the energy manager siphon position to a new level of 7,999 per request and that it follows any increases that are going to be given to the same positions that are at that

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salary level. That's a motion. Now the question is do you want to accept? Do you want to >> No, I know it works. >> Okay. So tell me what you want to do. or change it. I don't care. >> I'll second the motion. >> Okay. >> So, >> but I I but I'd also want to make

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further conversations with the HR director about if a guy is thinking this should be more of a managerial maybe have that conversation offline. >> Well, I'm saying as the position is today, I think it's monetarily higher

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than what the executive systems are doing. >> Okay. you guys decide to pay that is >> Yeah. And and honestly, I you know, I don't have a be totally honest with you. After I did some research on it, she's a bargain.

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You're a bargain. Okay. Um glad to have you. Please stay. Please continue what you're doing. >> I love my job. >> Okay. So, I don't have a problem with that and we can have that conversation. Needs a little more dissection of the position. I need to see the position of

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the assistant facilities. I need to see the facilities. I need to see how these duties are broken out. >> If I was going to if I was going to make a case to support it. >> And so keep in mind anybody could have this position. She just happened to also be the assistant to the facilities.

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>> But but I think the fact is also that a lot of the position interacts with other department heads in the town. And um if make a case to me as a manager and that's all I'm saying. >> Well, I'm just saying it's a it's a manager. I'm not saying it's a

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department head. I'm saying I'm just saying if we're looking at all the stipens positions, >> this position, at least compared to the executive assistance, which is what she's what they're asking, >> I do feel is a higher level of

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responsibility and um they have to make the decisions, you know what I mean? They're not they're not pushing out what someone else is saying to do. >> I understand. So, all I'm saying is if we're looking at just straight vanilla siphons, then I would I would say it's

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probably worth more than the $799.99 for the top. >> I think I'll approve 9,000. >> And all I'm saying is is that the uh that is a different meeting. I want another case presented. Um, I think

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you've already gone through some of these questions, so you kind of know where I'm coming from and where Paul's coming from. Um, I not arguing it either way. Okay. Um, what I do is Paul, I would take the motion for what it is.

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And if you want to come back to us, okay, as a change in position, that's your right. >> Okay. >> Okay. >> Um, and, uh, I don't want to say formidable or not. I don't know. I want to see what the data is. So, um, so the

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motion the way that I suggested, you're seconding it. >> Second as I'll call the role. Paul >> I, >> Jim, I Okay, >> first official. >> I know. >> All right. Thank you. >> All right. Thank you very much. >> Thank you guys.

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>> Thank you. >> Okay. >> Thanks, Carol. Appreciate it. >> Good to see you. >> Go back to the beach. back to the beach lotion. >> All right. Uh, next, uh, Tina update. >> I really don't have too too much. Um, so

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we hired the booth librarian. They actually started today. Um, and what is this other thing? Oh, and the, uh, treasure collector um, appointment started July 1, so that's official now. Um, that's really it. >> Okay.

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Um any questions Paul? >> No. >> Okay. Um next up then is um the change to the position of local inspector. >> So according to the bylaws uh they are paid it's listed as hourly and they're

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paid by inspection. >> It's listed as hourly like 48 something an hour or something like that. And you know, over the last few years, kind of diving more into the building department, um I've learned that they're actually paid by inspection. Originally,

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I thought I thought they were being paid as contractors and then they're actually paid through payroll. And so, understanding that, I'm like, well, they're supposed to get an hourly rate of this $48 or whatever it is. >> 4222

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>> 42. And um but my understanding from the building department is they have quote unquote always been paid $50 an inspection which takes about an hour. It could take longer. It could could take shorter. So

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>> uh any book? >> No, it's just a it's a conversation. So >> uh once again because of my >> I know that they were paid 15 an hour and depending like she said inspection

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15 inspection >> I don't know how it was done prior if the bylaw states it's supposed to be 4222 >> per hour >> per hour >> right >> I'm not sure what the disconnect happened no >> I don't know how long inspector has been

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in the bylaw And then what translated that it doesn't follow that practice in the building department? >> I think wasn't it created for Paul Armstrong the local inspector position? >> No, he had that he had that other

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position that he does get hourly or did he's not here anymore but um it was something else. >> So what what are we proposing? >> I would just like to see the practice follow. I would like >> by follow the practice. >> Yes, I understand.

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>> Yeah. >> So, um, we would change it to, uh, >> $50 an inspection. >> $50 an inspection. Um, I wish Scott was here because I'd want to know, you know, how uh, Hey, sorry, Scott.

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>> Scott. >> Scott. >> No, no, sorry. I have one other question >> about the local inspector. The issue is that they're in the bylaw at 4222 an hour. They get paid by inspection. >> Yeah. >> At 50. >> So the question is,

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>> does it take her more than an hour to do an inspection? >> No. No. Probably. It depends on what it is. >> What type of inspection? >> It depends what it is. I mean, I can see them taking more than an hour for a certain inspectance. But the point is is that um the if they go in for uh if they

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get $50 for 15 minutes, they win. So be it. The I guess what I'm wor not worried about but concerned about is is it too open-ended from the standpoint of your budget >> to to leave it as per inspection. >> I don't know because it started before I

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got here. >> Right. No, no, before >> he was here when I personally want would like to see it changed. I don't think it I've never in any of my departments paid per inspection. >> Okay. >> So, it should be by hour. Um,

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>> and they should be hourly time. >> Should have. Yeah, these are your hours that you come in and you do your inspections and um, more often than not, they're, you know, whether it's going to be a three or four hour day or whatever it is, the part-time guys or um, but I I

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just think that's what makes more sense. I don't I don't like tying something to per inspection. Yeah, I and that's the reason I'm asking the question, but the I guess the point I would like to bring up is we're having a meeting about somebody who's not here, meaning the

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building department. In other words, my worthless story. You want to know how it's running? You ask the driver. So, I think what I'd like to do is move this to a later meeting and put it on the agenda that it comes as a request um for

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a bylaw change or keep the bylaw the way it is and then bring the people that are involved in it, you know, the stakeholders to the table and ask them, you know, what the right solution is. I'm not saying you're wrong and I'm not saying you're right. What I'm saying is I think we should postpone it for a

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future meeting until we get all the stakeholders here. >> That makes that makes sense. I tend to agree with you, but it then puts a reporting document, a reporting function on them. And what does that mean? >> Yeah. at that point. I mean, my thought

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isn't a full-time building commissioner in there who's overseeing this is department head like any other department head who has employees that answer to him. >> He's going to be respond and he has a budget that he has. >> He has a budget that he has to live in

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live with. Um I also, you know, currently they work with a um enterprise site budget that they pay us out of, which Carol and I have talked about that I also I would rather that money just goes right to the general fund and I don't really want to have an

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enterprise budget, which also would end up >> do they get do we get paid for each inspection? >> Do we do we get a building permit fee >> but not an inspection? >> Not an inspection. And maybe that's >> unless somebody was to fail an inspection and then there's a reinspection fee.

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>> Okay. The point I'm trying to make is that that if we're going to send somebody out and pay them per, that should be on the person who's doing the work pays for it, not us. >> Yeah. The way the building permit fee is structured is if it was, you know, just your general building permit fee, it's

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based upon a percentage of the >> cost of could be a >> $2,000 fee for for project right now. I understand that. >> So, and within that, your assumptions are that a building inspector is going

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to go out there at least three times. A wiring inspector is going to go out there at least three times. Plumbing inspector is going to go out there. >> And it's honestly, it goes to my point, which is then I'd like to see it hourly so that we can attribute the cost to the revenue. >> I couldn't agree more. >> Okay.

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>> And do we know how the hourly rate came about? Was that 4220? Just an odd number. >> Oh, how that hurt? I don't know. >> Oh, it's just received cost of living. >> Probably 35 and then they >> So, that is something we need to talk to

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about too is >> you know what's your real cost, >> right? >> Yeah. So, no, I just think we should postpone it >> and put it into either an August meeting or a September meeting. Um maybe we you know this is coming through HR as far so

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put a let's get a request together that we have a meeting about it and determine what the right amounts are and I'm going to leave it up to you guys to lead that >> we can do some analysis I have Jeff >> analysis get us some numbers >> a couple of times with that job feel

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we're in the ballpark >> yeah but I just think that's a >> you know because I think arbitarily doing it is just we just don't have all the facts. So, >> all right. So, we're going to postpone that. Okay. Take care of that one.

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>> Status of the Thank you. >> Yeah. >> Yeah. Sorry, bud. Thank you. >> Have a good night. >> You too. >> Uh status of the flag attendant position. >> Right. So, this was brought up um kind of connected to the local inspector when

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it was maybe there should maybe the local inspector per inspection concept might follow the same suit as the flag attendant per flag pole and um >> yeah cuz I said to maybe it should be

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changed to schedule C2 with the flag attendant for the location and then she said >> I don't think anyone's doing the right and so I >> How about you? Do you know of anyone who ever has >> Do we have flagend? >> Okay. Once again, >> please. >> You're looking at the old flag attendant

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for the town. >> Because I used to get a call from upstairs. We got to lower the flags. >> Okay. Well, I go to this flag pole. The flag pole at the library up at the cross from Cancun. >> See, >> it was always And then if I didn't do it, Paul. It was

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>> It was one of those tasks that it needs to be done. Did you get paid for what? >> Get $39 for Okay. >> So, so the real who had a bribe someone would take >> to do it, >> right? No, I agree. I agree.

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>> Right. And all I've ever been told about this was Priscilla as the admin used to do it. >> Yeah. >> I don't know if she got a she got paid. >> Nobody to my knowledge. Nobody ever got paid. >> It's been in there forever. >> Right. I mean, we could go back and

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check payroll records for no one has record of it >> because it was one of those things. >> No, I understand. >> I'm an ex-military guy. >> Well, you know, so my question is so do we need it? >> That's right. And so that and so even with the local >> which I think is what Tina was getting,

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>> right? Like that the local inspector conversation was kind of like I just want to make sure that matching practice to document. >> Yeah. And whether we're doing it right or not, I understand that whole thought process behind the local inspector part of it, but it's always concerning to me when it's like this is the practice that's happening and then we have

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nowhere to go back to to be like this is what we said, right? And so even like with Melissa and Scott when I was explaining the stipen for the um energy manager, even though the grant might pay us more, I'm like they you can only get

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paid what's in the bylaw. they might pay us more, but you get to only get paid in the foot and the bylaw. And so it was kind of that flavor of like I don't want well if there's no one doing the flag attending position, then why do we have it anymore, right? But the other pieces were more of like we just follow follow

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me correctly. Like I want to be able to go back to something. I want an auditor to say why does Paul get $250 every once in a while? Oh, because in the BW law it says this. You know what I mean? But you know, >> there was talk four or five years ago

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from three prior boards of we're going to go through all these jobs and see which ones are antiquated like defense per the flag. Uh we have a >> a bine something I think somehow >> animal inspector >> something but a lot of these are

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antiquated positions. As far as a flag inspector goes the flag in front of the police department I'm sure they would take charge. The fire department. Yeah. >> Facilities usually does this. >> So the parades will say, "Hey, we need all these flags." Either the highway department

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used to do it or facilities. Somebody already did. They're always done >> and they never asked for it done. >> No. >> Part of the duties. >> So, so the question would be, do we want to uh propose eliminating position of flag?

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>> That would be my thought, but you guys make the decision. >> And honestly, I don't have a problem with it. it would be something that we would prepare as far as our fall time meeting uh >> article. So, so if if I I personally

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think that some of these positions should be what I call reacquired. In other words, they should come per periodically before and and and stated why their purpose is needed and then if they're not, they should be eliminated.

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Now, based on the organization of the town, sometimes that becomes problematic when all of a sudden we need somebody and she can't hire him. So, we don't have the position. >> But in this case, I don't think we need a flag attendant based on what I'm hearing. And to be honest with you, um

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you know, I I would propose that we turn around and delete the position uh out of schedule C2 as it's listed as no longer needed. and schedule a schedule. >> Schedule A second.

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>> Okay. Uh then uh any more discussions? >> No, I appreciate that. So I'll call the role. Paul >> I. >> Jim I. So we will prepare um for language for the uh fall town meeting to

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eliminate the flag attendant position. I'm thinking that this position started when the town didn't have a full-time police department, didn't have a full-time fire. >> So, I need somebody to make sure that the flag is attended. >> Yep. Understood. All right. The next is

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deletion of the finance director town accountant position. So, help me out with that one because it's my contract. >> Contract. Yeah. >> Um, you don't foresee a problem that we described later, >> right? Right. [laughter] I don't think so. I mean, I think if Carol won the lottery and it was like,

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"See you, then we'd get another one and we put them on contract." >> Okay. >> Yeah. >> It's one of the positions that the legislation allows you to put on contract. So, >> yeah. Yeah. Yeah. Yeah. >> Paul, >> is it better to have them on contract? >> Personally, I think it is uh for the

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simple reason that um you're the position is extremely important. >> Okay. um you have uh things uh that move in the marketplace. Sometimes you want the right person in that job. Um a

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contract gives them the flexibility to do that if they have to. Um it's a little different than any other position in the town. um from the standpoint of well you know they're not going to have wage and personnel protection they're

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not going to have union protection they're not going to so you have to consider that as well but I think the upside of giving the town the ability to negotiate in a contract situation is better for that position versus being in

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a in a structured wage and where I see that as a problem typically is you know say that schedules out as a uh uh uh you know it's a grade 15 and uh the 10 steps take it to just for argument sake

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of 130,000 and the market's 150. >> Yeah. >> Um you what happens in that case and we've seen it over and over again in certain positions you just don't get a qualified person. >> So um you know it's it's it's and and

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the other side is true too. We've had the ability in the contracts to where certain types of positions we can be flexible with schedule with them by bringing them in under contract which we can't do >> in wager personnel and union if you if

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you're comparing it to other positions and you may have to do that to get the right person. So I've seen both sides of it. So, you know, I curious what you think.

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>> My concern on a contracted individual is at the end of that third con third, usually three years. >> They kind of got you cuz if they're doing a great job, they're going to say, "Okay, I want 15, 20, 25%."

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where it was a wage personnel. You know what that anticipated increase is going to be year after year. >> And I've also seen this town pay top dollar I don't want to say bang for a buck but weren't up to that status.

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>> Mhm. So just being a new member here I'm just going in my head also as somebody that was underweight person there was a sense of security there y >> right >> in 3 years as we know the board you can change [clears throat]

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uh they might not like you in that contract you know do we need to make a decision on this tonight >> what all we're deciding is we're not changing the contract that's in place all we're doing is eliminating the >> position position of finance director.

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So that right now going forward it would be a contract only position. If the town wanted to put a finance director back in the bylaw, we could do it at town meeting. >> I mean we could we could just put an asterct and say it's not under contract

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or something like that. And then that way because right now it's in by it's in the bylaw but it's an under contract position. So, you know, maybe it's one of the positions that could be >> and and this is the housekeeping part, >> right? >> Okay. So, that that's the reason why it's being brought up. Um, you know, the

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I do believe there are certain positions that are worth leaving in the bylaw because needs change, times change, and we have to fill it quickly and to wait for town meeting. That's a problem. However, this position I don't believe is one because

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I believe that we have someone under a contract. We could always get a temp a financial director as a temporary. We could hire that firm as a contract and bring them in. So, I mean there's there's ways around a problematic a problem that if the person just leaves

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you an alert >> still you still have town accountant in the schedule. No, but that position is another >> But there's no finance director is a new title, right? >> Well, it's finance director accountant, which was before it was uh before Carol

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was here last time. It was her predecessor. >> So, the point the point is is um it's just a matter of, you know, again, cleaning up the bylaw. Do we want to take it out? And I'm okay if we leave it

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alone. All right. I just I'm curious, you know, the thought process. My thought process is that I firmly believe there are certain positions in this town that should be contract >> because of the quality of person. The other nice thing about the contract is

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that if the person doesn't work out, they're gone. >> Whereas it's a little tougher on the waging personnel side unless it's a violation. Okay. A a major violation. Yes, there is some uh lack less security in the position

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and I can respect that, >> but I'm also for someone that's always taken his salary at risk, >> I've I've always been willing to accept that and I believe that when you get into that world of of pricing with those kind of positions that that risk comes

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with it. >> Okay. >> Okay. Um, so you know, I think there are certain things, certain positions that wage personnel does a very good job with the steps and the grades and so forth. And then I think there are some positions that are outside the realm of

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steps and grades based on the needs of the town, >> uh, police chief, fire chief, town administrator, the town accountant, the planner. Those are just the ones. tax collector, treasurer. Those are the ones

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I'm thinking of that are key positions that if I was the town administrator or the select board or you and I sitting here, I'd want flexibility and and I think that the contract because you can also change a job

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description in a contract. >> True. >> You can add duties, take duties away, you know, you can split the duties up amongst other contractual people. So there's there's flexibility for the town in it and and um and I'm you know I also

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think that from the standpoint of wage and personnel if we try to fit it into a structure two things happen we don't do I think justice for that position for the town to have flexibility number one and

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number two it puts more pressure on other positions that are near it in the wager personnel board and and meaning more pressure being that you know the finance director has to be here 65 hours a week well so shouldn't the police

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chief if he's in wage and personel so should I because he can wage and personnel maybe you know so whereas we can separate that one of the problems was >> when she was talking about executive secretary what's that got to do with

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your job >> was the first thing I said >> well I just didn't know compare apple to apple and and I so so but but in a contract situation um got nothing to do with your job. >> Okay. >> It's what what's it worth to the town?

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What's it worth paying for? So um I don't have a problem taking it out but I also have no problem leaving it in. >> It's just a matter of but but I that's the benefit I see. Uh on HR side, what do you see the benefit of contracts?

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Getting a better quality person. >> I was >> not quality. That's what >> No, no, no. Like even even the current situation where the employee is on a contract. I my concern as that was playing out was I'm like it's a wage and personnel

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position. And so I I totally understand why it should be on a contract. I agree it should be on a contract, but if it's in here, >> I feel like we're not following what we're saying, you know. Um, so like I

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said, you know, maybe the compromise is it stays in there and there's a caveat to it that says the option of being on a contract or something, you know. I mean, we have the health agent position in here and the health department or the board of health is really wholes,

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you know what I mean? So, >> I mean, I guess if that makes it easier to get the right person in there, it gives the town more flexibility. I could see that. >> Well, I I also think honestly um and it's not a question of I'm a big

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believer of um if we're going to send these people to a gunfight, let's not send them with a knife. >> Yeah. >> Okay. because they got to turn around and compete with all the other people that are out there that are hiring. So,

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you know, I believe that we should give them as much many tools as we can to get the job done. >> That makes sense. >> So, the um and I'm not saying wage and personnel the the bylaw is wrong, but I don't I agree with Tina. If we if we're using it as a a contract position, let's

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not be half pregnant. Let's take it out of let's take it out of wage and personnel and leave so that that it doesn't it doesn't come to west again unless it it needs to. >> Fair enough. So, um, you know, so from the standpoint of

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the deletion of the finance director, I would take the motion to delete the finance director from the, uh, bylaws. And that would be schedule what, Jennifer? >> Schedule A. >> Schedule A, >> uh, from the current bylaw position and prepare the documentation for fall time meeting.

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>> I'll make that recommendation. >> So moved. So I'll call the role. Paul, I >> JMI. Okay. I need some help on this one. Tina, the request from the recreation department regarding Is there a COA done yet?

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>> COA? >> Not COA. Cost of living adjustment. >> So that's it. >> We're done. >> Well, so this is the thing. So, you know, the recck department positions are during the summer. They've um they've

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applied the 1% cola because that's what the lieutenant got. The idea is if this is coming in the fall time, do we just want to make sure that it gets matchy matchy? [laughter] >> So there is a cola. >> There isn't a cola there. There's one

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group that received a cola, the lieutenants, because they closed their contract. This group got the 1% cola because it was allowed to do that because their positions aren't going to be here in the fall. So,

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>> what do you think? >> See, I read that differently that Sue wanted to keep the minimum wage for one group, >> the counselors. >> Right. Right. >> And then the other one was cool. >> But there's no cooler for the town yet. request in in the spring,

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>> right? We got that request a couple of months ago. But the point >> and then there was no cola. So there >> and so the the the fear I always I hate to do negative and then positive, but um I understand that the lieutenants got

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the 1%. Um, however, if we do this for recreation, then we should do it for all of Asian personnel in order to be fair based on our charge. And >> and then how do you answer the the union

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people where they haven't gotten their cola yet? >> And I understand lieutenants getting 1%. That's a that's a full-time job. >> Yeah. >> These are summer jobs. They're not people's line top line of income there. It's for

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usually kids. >> Mhm. >> For now, once again, I want to date myself, but back when I was a kid, and that was a long time ago, there used to be a little booth right in front of the gate that Greg was no big deal. And my buddy used to take used to pay a dollar

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a part. I think he was making 75 cents an hour, but he knew, okay, from June till August, that's what it was. Hey, I used to apply for those jobs down at the rebuild, >> right? >> Because we went to those programs. >> I I just because they're waging for I I

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don't know how we could do it, but >> I don't think that a part-time and maybe Sue can tell. Are these kids coming back year after year? Are we getting new kids? >> This year, I don't know how many she has in total, but this year I think I

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onboarded at least eight new people. So I mean >> remember she has that range for each position. She does except for the counselor is minimum wage and that's it. >> Well it's 1553 not the minimum wage. >> Fair. >> Okay.

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>> Supposed to be but I want to go back to my other question. Fairness. [clears throat] How do we do this for recreation and we don't do it the highway and we don't do it >> schedule the the >> we just do it the schedule C3 >> right that's what I say

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>> I don't think that's fair >> I can give you my opinion but it doesn't count >> well personnel people it hasn't been decided >> and until the negotiations are handled throughout the other unions

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>> so why is it being did I bring this because you sent out that >> note from Sue >> sent out about >> and and I understand your point that they're just some positions and they will be here but >> I'm also trying to figure out why that's

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our problem. It's the town didn't >> agreed which is >> so that that puts more pressure on Sue to come up with creative ways to hire her staff as a result of the town administration. I don't believe it's a

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question that we should handle. And my biggest point is I don't believe it's fair. Okay? I don't want to walk in the highway and say, you know, the kid counselor got 1% addition and you don't get nothing. >> So, um, yeah, I I personally think that

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and if she's paying a 1% because she's an enterprise, if I remember right. Right. >> That's between her and the administrator. >> Yeah. >> Got nothing to do with us. the administrator allowed it to happen. >> And again, I wish he was still here because I would say to him, "Listen, how

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do you do this without being paid?" >> If the wage if the bylaw sets with the wages, she can't pay anymore until the bylaw changed >> again without the police bylaw. >> It is called the wage and personnel

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bylaw. We uh well, we are the wage personnel. We are not the police in the town. >> The administrator is the police to enforce it. Administrator enforces and who brings this to the administrator's attention that needs to be

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>> right now. You if somebody wanted to sue the town and I know, but you're not paying what the bylaw says, >> but neither are the inspectors. >> Once again, >> it's it's the cleanup part. I kind of warned you about. >> But what we're doing is just keep

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>> putting it out there. Putting it down. >> Well, no. I I I'm not trying to just put it out there. I just don't think it's I don't think in fairness you can make a decision on one group and not counter all the other group. That goes against our charge. >> Okay. And that's the part that I have a

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problem with. So my my >> So maybe it doesn't. >> Well, my my answer is this is a previous request. Request denied, >> right? and a subject >> and and if for some reason the cola gets figured out before fall meeting then you

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re I don't think you should I think you should wait until it's determined if there's going to be a cold year 2027 then you would have given it to those positions >> right >> right but what I'm saying is I I have a

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request received from the recreation department to the board >> my request is denied >> well she asked Tina if she needed to resubmit it. Right. >> Right. >> And I said to Tina, "No, because I still have it." >> Right. But but I don't have a problem.

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So all all we can push it down the road, but I have no problem denying it today. >> You deny it today and in a month I come back here and say, "Oh, there's a cola. You can't apply it to this group." >> She could come back >> and she'd be past the deadline.

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And plus you you already have a request for the in middle town meeting that you couldn't act upon, right? >> Because the cola haven't been decided. So I would say it should just be postponed until there's a decision. If there's a decision made for fiscal year 27, no cola, right?

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>> Then you could I I don't have a problem. You don't have a problem. I don't have a problem either, but I did have a problem with the fairs and uh and uh Okay. So let's just >> Is that all right if you wait? I can postpone >> because right if Tina comes back and says

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>> next next meeting you come back and say you come back and say the goal is of this you know and they're retroactive back to July 1. I want to make sure that we follow what was done >> by the town administrators. So um yeah

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I'm okay with postponing it. Paul you're okay with >> I'm okay. Yes. >> Okay. All right. So we got to postpone that. All right. >> Table it. >> Yeah. Table it. table it until you have information >> more information about the cola timeline >> fiscal year 2000 >> step and change for the position of

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energy manager for 2020 so that we already took care of that okay um board reorganization I will now open up the board discussion nominations for chairman >> I nominate James soul as chairman of the wage >> chair chairman chair

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>> chair >> chair doing chair or chairman prefer chair Okay. Change our >> chairs. It's not a big deal. >> Okay. >> Coach, how about Paul? >> Oh my god.

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>> Okay. I I'll accept the the nomination and uh uh Paul call the role. Paul >> I >> Jim I Okay. So I now nominate Paul Basler for vice chair of the wage and personnel committee.

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>> Can I say no? Oh, no. >> I would be honored without that position. >> Okay. So, Paul accepts. So, I'll call the role. Paul Jim I. Okay. Congratulations, Paul. >> No, the point too is if I had to zoom

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in. >> Yeah. >> And you run. So, that's all. >> All right. >> The chairman doesn't have to. I'm not sure what the rules are anymore. >> Um, I don't think that could be here. I think >> that's what Lorraine told us, but that could have changed.

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>> Yeah, I think honestly with the new >> I think it was something to do with the open meeting law, >> right? And that's what I'm saying with the open meeting law and the ability to zoom um you know, you can turn around and um so we are obviously

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uh two members on the board. We are looking for a third. If anybody watches this appointed by the finance committee, >> so um >> 101 wants to apply. >> Uh there's some there's some minutes that you weren't here for,

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>> right? So how do we handle that? Because I wasn't here. Do I >> You skipped over mail. >> Oh, I'm sorry. Was there any mail? >> Oh, that's right. >> Briefly. >> Darn it. Tina sent something. Now we

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have to figure it out. >> No, you know. >> No, I know. I think No, I got it after the agenda. >> Right. We got it after the agenda. >> We can talk about it next time, too. >> Yeah. And that's honestly what I'd like to do with it if we could. >> Put it in the minutes that we received.

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>> Yeah. And is there any do you have any comment about it at all? >> All right. So, put it on the agenda for the next time. >> Okay. And did I get anything else? >> No, that's that was No, that was it for me. Okay. Yeah, that does make sense. >> Um, so on the minutes, um, the

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no matter what, we're going to have this problem. Okay, so the, um, I don't have any problem with the minutes at all. Okay, the way they're written, and I reviewed both of them. All right. Um, so, but we do need two votes in order to

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accept them. So I think >> based on your you just stated that you read both sets of minutes and you see no need to change what's written there. >> Mhm. >> I will take your word at it just to get through this set of minutes. So we need

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to get opposing and I will vote in favor of accepting of the minutes based on your expertise of what was happening at that meeting. >> Okay. Um I again I I don't I'd like to get it cleaned up just to have it cleaned up.

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So uh I'll accept Paul's motion. Now I'll call the role. Paul I Jim I. So the minutes have been accepted as written presented. Okay. Uh the next >> date and agenda is August the 17th. Uh

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Tina, do you have anything coming up? >> Please some but we'll see. Yeah. >> Um, August 17th, I think. Um, yeah. I mean, hopefully I'll have more information on where the union negotiations are. >> Yeah. >> Um,

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>> you think you will, but you can't say? >> I can't say. >> Okay. >> Yeah. >> I'm hoping, but I can't say. >> And right now, you're only looking just for just so I'm understanding. You just you ultimately care just what KTU does, not what the other contracts do.

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>> No. >> No. See, that's that was my issue with wage personnel when I first started. Waging personnel should be privy to all the all the contracts. >> They just do their own thing. >> Well, I just I know this when I when the

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contracts are settled, I like to have a copy of all so I can compare because I'll be honest as a as a member of the wage person. I remember as I was there was times when I thought that the wage personnel board wasn't really representative of regal personnel employees. And when we talked about Betty White, that was one of my concerns

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with Betty was Betty, you have no idea what the town's negotiating with KTU or the police and the fire. But you're telling wage and personal employees the best deal how you based on what? >> Yeah. For a lot of years the thing and wage and personnel got behind

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>> and as you all know I worked over long time >> I used to hear from the employees >> the highway superintendent before you Jerry George Before Jerry was Frank Chevrey. >> Yeah. >> Before Frank was Colorado.

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>> Oh, Car. All right. >> So, um, in the past we've the town has been the same with everybody and that's what we've gone with. Um, you know,

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the the thing about that that I understand and how I feel is personnel for the most part is a lot of our department heads and that's the bones in town. Okay. That the town basically this the bones that the town's built on these

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department heads. So you we always I've always felt that important to keep them. I've always felt that it's important to follow. Um, and I've always felt that that we'd be very fair. Um, I uh I would like to see eventually we hear about

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them all. [laughter] >> Okay. And I'd like to see what all of them are because the one thing that you have to remember about this schedule, it was made as a physical decision to do them all at the same time. >> Yes, it was.

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>> And and I didn't agree with that. Mhm. >> All the negotiations for the contracts were all going to be done at the same time. I did not agree with that. >> And so, yes, I want to see them all because you know what's you know I think

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>> that when we did them staggered, it depended on what was happening at that time with that group of people. And I think you have to take into account you have to take into account the job candidates. Maybe it's harder to get construction type people than when we were doing KTU and and versus police

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versus fire. So >> like negotiation. >> Yeah. >> And they've always all been on the same schedule. They must have been well before that. >> You just used to do it every one a year. >> One a year. >> Yeah. Used to be one a year.

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>> What did you say? One year. 2017 January probably 2013 >> is when they went on the same schedule. >> Oh well they were talking about going on and if and usually one of them is always a contract date on the contract one had a two year one had a three year and then

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they fall at different times. >> So so you know >> the one thing I will say is when we did them at different times okay it would time. >> This [laughter] is the first year in my tenure. No, no offense. It's not a hard

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It's not a shot, but but here we are. We made a decision to do them all at once and they're not on top. >> That is not the fault of the town. That's all I'm going to say about that. >> I'm not arguing. >> I will give you kudos for that because you are right. Ever since you have been here, the contracts have landed on time.

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>> Y I reach out I reach out to all the unions in October. >> Yeah. >> Before their June end date. >> Although I tell the story all the time. So, I started January 11th of 2017. I got on Tuesday was the board's board

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meeting. Wednesday, I walked in. Thursday, this is back when I was 27 hours a week. Thursday, every single one of the unions, Here you go. Here you go. [laughter] Here you go. >> I'm like, "Oh, hi. >> Nice to meet you." Right. You got to remember we didn't have a lot of

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>> interaction with HR before I know >> we had Bob Joy. That was >> only part time, >> right? H was more than me. >> He was no one before him, right? >> And that's apparently what a lot of >> Okay. So So we'll have um uh hopefully

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some update >> kind of update in August. >> In August. So but you're okay with the date. You're okay with the date. I'm okay with the date. >> And I put cola update on the agenda. You can, but I just put that on my normal update anyway. >> Okay. >> Maybe not put that on the

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>> Okay. No, I won't. >> All right. Anything else for the good of the group? >> I don't think so. >> I have nothing. >> I'm good. >> Okay, then I will. >> We're happy to have another Gordon. >> Yes. We're very happy. >> Please. Someone else belongs to

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>> Do you have any friends? >> No. >> I used to before I came on the board. Uh at 7:06 I will take a motion to end the wage and personnel meeting

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>> July 20th. Okay. Uh Paul I Jim I