##VIDEO ID:V17s8Aq9giU## e e e e e e e e e e e e e e e e e e all right we're going to go ahead and open the meeting of December 9th 2024 it's 7:00 we'll start with a roll call Dave gavan Tom buad Jonathan Barnett we're missing um Alexander and Bob tonight um but we have enough for quarum we have three members here and um we have a limited agenda um first on our agenda is a um 701 perfect site plan review 40 Evergreen Street group home so do we have someone that wants to speak to this or well not not are you homeowners yes okay anybody from this want to speak to this online and David David David you there yes hi this is David Solin I'm the vice president of real estate and facilities for Len okay you have our attention so I didn't know I was speaking I'm just getting filled in I'm relatively new at elwin so I was up there a few uh weeks ago or maybe about a month or two ago and from what I understood we were just pretty much everything was good to go they were just doing a final review of the parking um so I don't I don't know I'm not really sure what the delay is or what what the issue is so that's why I'm jumping on Contra contractor as well who's the contractor right up there to the right top right what's it is there a name for them will yeah Will can you hear us he's got to turn on his mic I'm sorry you asking me a question my apologies no I'm looking for the contractor to speak what's his name willan I think he has un yeah can you un can you unmute your um computer will hello you there now is W here we got you go ahead I'm sorry I might have missed something U just got in no if you're going to speak you go to the mic sorry it's okay um uh who was the first guy David from the real estate uh just said that he is new on the scene but he said you're here as well do you have anything to add to this discussion all right we'll go to why don't we go to Val Val why don't you explain some of the issues okay that the real estate guy didn't know what the uh David didn't know what the the delay was if you want to explain some of the issues that would be great yeah so we're talking about uh site plan review for 48 Evergreen Street here in Kingston map 35 Lots 21 and 22 the applicant is L1 adult behavioral service Health Services of New Bedford and um they are subject to site plan review uh and to the extent that we're looking at parking um do they have adequate um you know bulk and massing because it's it's an exempt use under chapter 48 state law but they're still subject to site plan review and um one of the things that's required is they come through the planning board for site plan review which looks at parking and we have a building that they're just renovating so we're not looking at massing no no but we are looking at parking and the site plan that we have is an existing conditions plan with some information that's been superimposed on the existing conditions plan for parking and what we don't have is uh a parking design that would meet the requirements of ADA so it's not an acceptable site plan and we've given this information to the applicant um almost a week ago so I'm surprised that the new that the new person hasn't had a chance to review my report um but we we have gone through this with a local representative of the of elwin and I don't think there's any misunderstanding from their perspective um that these issues exist one is that the property still owes taxes to the town and so we're not under our Reg general bylaws allowed to issue a permit to a property that has an outstanding tax balance so I've advised them of that um they don't own the property but they're a proposed tenant but we still can't issue a permit to the property with that issue um they've designed a septic system for the property but the Sewer Commission has determined that by law they have to tie into the sewer system and we've asked them to respond to that but we haven't got a response so we don't show any design on the plants to tie into the sewer system but we would have that be a condition um there's no information on water supply and we know that we have a water moratorium so I've advised the local representative that um we need to know whether the seven bedrooms that they're proposing would um be serviced adequately by flow and pressure in the existing service line that goes to the house but we don't know the answer to that and that would be uh if if any CH I met with the commissioner who said we were good to go with the exception of a site fan review so I'm a little bit taken back when that's why I'm asking the question when the issue of a water comes up because that wouldn't normally correct me if I'm wrong that normally wouldn't come up on the site plan review I would have assumed that would have been addressed or or asked already it has not been it has not been and so I'm just bringing it to your attention because in our town the site plan review process is the one that circulates that information to the Water Commission and the Sewer Commission for comment and so the the idea that you had a septic system shown on the plans will not be adequate for the Sewer Commission and you need to prove out the uh adequate flow and pressure for your water system regardless of the site plan review process okay I I understand again that's where my confusion was coming cuz when I was up there and I believe again I can get the person who I met with which IA who no longer works for the town of Kingston okay so I guess there you go so that's where the confusion is cuz he said we were all good to go he did not review it with the Water Commission or the Sewer Commission who have offered their comment in writing and we've shared that with you use attorney and all that stuff so that we can get this through the Finish Line because it's been months and months and months and I'm just trying to get it to to the finish line and it does seem like every time we go there's another thing and I understand he's no longer there so we'll start new we'll get information we'll document everything and we'll go forward all right so you seem a little chippy so I'm going to step in here sir I'm not chippy I'm I'm just I was trying to explain and if anything the the the the woman who was just talking to me was chippy and cutting me off which is why no she was answering your questions so it's my turn to speak so great you're definitely a little Chi um I want to say this first of all we don't even have to hear this tonight cuz there taxes owned on the property so we're doing this out of the goodness of our heart and so um keep that in mind we don't even have to open this up at all because of the taxes owed do you have any idea when the taxes will be paid so that was just brought to my attention today so I will certainly address it so that's I appreciate you you know speaking to me and I understand and again I'm just trying to get clarity because I'm coming in you know later so now you know I will give you my direct email address and we can correspond and I will quickly get you whatever answers you need and whatever we need to fulfill to get this project to the Finish Line all right so Val is going to explain to you again if you're the person to speak to about what you need for your site plan in your pocket we will not bring up the water or the sewer again you'll have to deal with those on your own okay um but we will bring up this parking issue and Val could you explain that one more time right so the parking plan that's shown does not meet ADA requirements it's a superimposed which can't be constructed is uh causing some flooding problems on the adjacent property to the east per photographs that have been shared with the Building Commissioner and we're also lacking any Landscaping on the plans which is required the number of parking spaces that are shown great and I I have one question um I know you had said you you had shared this with uh the the local person could you possibly email me these these findings and then this why I can relay it to my team and we can get you whatever answers or whatever revised plans we need to submit sure I've emailed it to Ellen I'm certainly happy to email it to you when I get your information okay that would be terrific so right now staff is recommending that we continue the site plan review until we have an engineered site plan that addresses the parking lot grading surface treatment and storm water and landscaping for the required screening I'm sorry cut it you are you recommending you continue or not continue I didn't hear that my continue we will continue I'm just okay um I'm sorry I didn't hear you I was asking I haven't said anything else um okay board members do we want hear from this is not a hearing so anything we anytime we offer up to the public or anybody else is is a gift so do we want to do that or we want to wait for the taxes to be paid well they're here it'd be nice to know now what some of the issues may be might help us I agree with you so all right is anybody that like to speak to this give us your name and address and then you can go ahead Chris verer my wife and I live Tammy we live at 52 Evergreen Street um we are the servient lot of the easement that goes to 48 Evergreen Street um we have some great concerns uh with this project uh with overburdening of the easement we did spend eight years in and out of Court over the use of this easement um for commercial purposes that was eventually shut down um from business was being performed out back there because of overburdening of the easement through the court system um but we have conver you know other concerns I we di brought a letter to submit to the planning board um I I'll read it to you um dear planning member board members our name is Chris tamy varaka we reside at 52 Evergreen Street in Kingston um we can limit some of that the proposal group home to the rear of our property at 40 Evergreen Street has brought to our attention and we have the following concerns and questions regarding the proposed plans our property is a servient lot to 48 Evergreen Street through an easement we own the property we pay taxes on that property it's our backyard where our children play um 50 Evergreen Street is a subservient lot to service 48 Evergreen Street to the rear of our house uh our first question is why isn't any not notification been made to any of the abutters for this project I mean it's a significant project that will take away from the safety of our driveway and our backyard along with the peaceful enjoyment of our property that we've invested a lot of money in other concerns we have EAS EAS M EAS easement maintenance during the winter months you know what do you do for snor removal we don't want salt we don't want dsid de icing agents used in our property we don't use it ourselves we're concerned about the runoff it's going to destroy vegetation you know the environmental impact that that's going to have is a great concern of ours you know our neighbors they have a a small stream that runs through their backyard that's kind of the low spot so any deicing agenc you use are going to impact that that eventually dumps into Blackwater swamp which is a very precious Wetland swamp area on the other side of the street so concerns about that 48 Evergreen Street is a retreat lot with no furniture on a public way which requires access over 52 and 50 Evergreen streets private back or whiffle ball or any of those games you know when that ball goes out and there's a traffic coming down we have great concerns safety for that you know like I said we spent eight years in and out of court over this easement and you know we don't want to get into that ball wax again because it just wasn't a nice event and we were happy with the outcome we've learn to live with the outcome as a single family home not as a as a business you know with commercial use we do understand that there is a need for home homes of this sort and housing in this town just don't feel it's the best location if we wanted to live on a corner lot we would have bought a corner lot we bought what we bought on the street but to have a main thorough Fair put in that's going to be utilized with multiple trips in and out or the potential for multiple trips is great concern to us you know we just hope that the planning board would take these thoughts and considerations in and also with the the proposers um of that you know the other questions we have is you know the number of residents is that will be in there you know how many residents will be in there at any given time it's proposed as a seven-bedroom home to come in to transport I mean just up the street there's a group home and we see the number of trips that happen there with emergency vehicles um in residents you know the solid waste disposal you know package deliveries fuel deliveries you know how's that all going to get in there you know Property Maintenance Building Maintenance all that it's all going to be the burden of us as the servy and our neighbors behind us is the subservient lot and it's just going to impact the peaceful enjoyment of our backyards that we're concerned about that's all that I have to say right now thank you uh the only question I'm going to answer on that right now is uh us um or the town um notifying the neighbors and place and if you pave that it's going to have to go into our Navy's yard it's on the bottom of a hill the I get run off from the public way that I have to mitigate and then added water hydraulic loading from that and then couple that with a smooth surface it's going to increase speeds you know and it's just it's it's going to get I don't want a tragedy to happen in my how many Lots does the the easement go over just yours it's it Travers is over 52 and 50 Evergreen streets property 52 and 50 yeah so it's an easement over two separate private properties okay thank you thank you sure hi my name is Craig bellore um I live at 54 Evergreen Street we are the direct AB butter to um the ement that goes past um Chris's lot all the way back to the proposed lot at 48 Evergreen Street and I wanted to Echo Chris's concerns especially from our standpoint of being the lower proos here that flooding ends up going into an area where I still have a 40ft pine stand and those trees roots are fairly shallow those trees stand next to my house they stand next to the barn that's a part of our property and in the packet that I've just given I've taken pictures of last April's rains when we had a ton of flooding back there that was brand new since the compacting had happened on that easement for the the um I'm trying to think of the word the the um redoing of the property basically when they did the redid the driveway the flooding got worse in the back we have a dog pen back there we weren't able to use because because it was under 2 to 3 Ines of water as conditions stand I'm even more concerned when we add a hardtop to that when we add um chemicals to deal with ice and snow what that's going to I do remember when we bought the property the the property that we live on about 20 years ago at this point there was a logging business that was run out of that back property that had to be shut down because it's zoned for residential area I'm not an expert on zoning so um I don't quite understand how we're even considering a business back there um concerned also about the amount of lighting that would end up having to be part of the property back there right now at night it's black it's it's dark back there it's peaceful it's an oasis um I echo my neighbor's concern about the traffic um I would add there's also um occasional confusion about deliveries where I end up having packages coming to my house with um between UPS post office has figured it out because they're local but UPS FedEx Etc will often deliver to my property by mistake and end up having to go elsewhere I'm concerned with the business having those deliveries that I'm going to end up with those things um Etc um and that is essentially the the basis of my concerns thank you very much for giving me the opportunity to Heir them Val could you explain their exemption from zoning yeah under chapter 40a there are certain uses that are exempt for the most part from zoning and this includes residential educational program for adults which is what this is It's a proposed use so it's exempt okay thank you and the contact or opportunity to talk that would be an appropriate venue if this is not it this is it this is it okay thank you very much thank you anybody else I just cou know as as Craig mentioned some of the concerns you know would there be signage that we place at the street to signify this this operation you know and if there signage is the requirements or limitations on where that sign would be how it would be placed you know because it would have to be placed either on my property or on the belmore's property so I think that's you know things that we like to be addressed you know you know what what type of mailbox is is it going to be a big cluster mailbox to accommodate residents would that be down at the at the house or would that be out at the street you know currently there's a a mailbox at the street so how would that work um one other you know question I have is is lighting you know I know most places that have Public Access have to have public lighting 24-hour public lighting common areas have to be lit driveways parking lots have to be lit would that mean that there' be driveway lights running down through my back back yard to illuminate their driveway for Access you know what kind of light pollution would that us understand why the number of parking spaces proposed are proposed so that would be helpful so that would be helpful real quick the part of the packet that I gave to you had pictures of the flooding in the back that was part that was submitted to the building office as well and we have not heard a reply just the building commission wrote a letter to us say again talk The Building Commissioner wrote a letter which the Owen has a copy of um talking about that that you've offered up that there might be a flooding problem okay thank you very much was that Paul's letter yes yeah I I would have read it into the record but he's he's a lefty and he prints and I I can write it you want me to read it into the sure please east corner and Beyond I see no information on the plan that addresses runoff or Landscaping requirements of zoning bylaw section 95j I have concerns as to the viability of several of the proposed parking spaces shown surface slope changes within several individual parking spaces show slope changes of well over 2 feet within the span of one space no grading details address this for design relevance if not for the jurisdictional compliance the mass aab regulations specify that parking lots and passenger loading zones maintain a maximum surface slope of 2% in all directions this General provision section of the zoning bylaw applies to all zoning districts bylaw section 95 M2 requires parking lots for six or more cars to be screened the plans do not show this and the requirements need to be addressed on the site plan thank you thank you Paul for right want to speak to this I think there's a lot of concerns are going on in this project so that have to be addressed it's kind of obvious it's uh pretty straightforward um homeowners concerns um lot going on here that we need to that needs to be addressed so um taxes all that gets reviewed gets done gets paid we kind of go through it and um and see the appropriate side plan and then we can talk further [Music] on so it looks like this project includes the uh upsizing the building right making it larger bring this taxes be paid um and I will check before we make another date to continue this too we can continue it can we continue this and we don't have to continue it it's not a public hearing we need the revised site plan and time to we usually do but what we can do is I'm I'm going to check with uh Town Council I don't think we need to hear from this again until taxes are paid I don't think we even had to hear anything tonight but we did and so uh David uh you have your uh March and orders and you people are involved as well do you want to speak to this I don't know I'd like just take a few minutes to address hi so this is d if I may just real quick um hang on somebody's speaking somebody's speaking hold on David can you go up to the please give us your name and address and go forward good evening um my name is Kimberly melow and I'm the regional director for elwin in Massachusetts um and I just I took a few notes I wasn't because this is not a hearing I really wasn't prepared to get up and give a whole Spiel but um I wanted to take the time to address a few of the concerns that you have that are legitimate you know trash removal snow removal all of that is all of that is legitimate um I can share with you that um in in the state of Massachusetts we have 10 group homes um we I have to say we do a vehicle that is that's parked there most of the time um there'll be two staff Vehicles so that's making it three there could be a third staff there depending on what's going on during the day um but typically there's not going to be any more than um two to four to five vehicles um our traffic I feel is minimal um deliveries are minimal like we do not have um much delivered to the house if I was trying to brainstorm like what we actually do have delivered to the house um we buy our groceries we're res we're we're residents we we're buying our groceries in the grocery store um we're going to Walmart to buy our stuff so nothing's really delivered um to the home um trash I mean we we hear what you're saying about your cons lighting lighting is your typical um one family home um you know you'll have we'll have front lights um we might have a side light and a back light but nothing that would be anything more than what um a typical one family home would have no signage uh we do not put signage out so you would not even no people won't even know that we're there um mailbox mailbox would be your typical mailbox any just your typical um size probably right next to one of yours that you have um snow removal um our typical practices is to hire someone to plow the driveway um and that typically includes some sanding but it's just for safety reasons um but if that's an issue we can certainly talk about that as well um but we will definitely have somebody come out and plow the driveway thank you yeah anything else I tried to get everything that you mentioned um but you know well we'll see where it goes after the taxes are paid and then we'll go forward yeah so we so we were not aware that the taxes had not been paid um that's a property owner's responsibility so we did actually reach out to him today um so we're just waiting for his response and he's he's been responsive with everything else so it could have just been a Mis mishap okay okay thank you yeah sure let's not keep this going it's not just limited to vehicle traffic but also foot traffic you know we like there a PO the top and it's just constant foot traffic up and down the street they loiter at the end of the driveway smoking cigarettes and that just not what we want to encourage our front yard else so that's just it's not just the vehic it's the foot traffic of the residents also y no okay thank you all thank you all right so next thing on our agenda is the Adu um bylaw update that would be Val yeah we're just glad to hear from the attorney general that they approved the Adu after um an extension that they took so this is the one that we passed at Town the one that town meeting passed last March was approved by the Attorney General so now it's in effect and then they took the extra time to write up all the things they'd like us to change at the springtime meeting to be consistent with the state law and so use the setbacks that we just adopted at Springtown meeting use the setbacks that we just adopted at Springtown meeting and also um take a look at uh any other U exemptions one of the things we want to make sure we include is that they're not short-term rentals and that's allowed to be regulated by the town so those are probably the two things that we're looking to change I'll read through it's a six page response from the a u attorney General's office but we want to keep it on the books for anything over 900 ft and any anything 900 ft smaller is now going to be exempt from local zon as of when on February 7th I believe okay and so we expect to see uh a lot of so anything over 900 ft we can we can put keep all our rules in place yeah okay and anything over 900 square F feet will require a special permit right and if they wanted to do a second Adu that requires a special special permit yep but is there any control on a second one or is it the same rules as the first one just one special permit today they sent out a notice that they have new regulations posted in draft form so I haven't had a chance to look um and they're going to have workshops next week for people to start seeing what the draft regulations are and those regulations are going to really specifically regulate these things at the state level so we're still wrapping our heads around what what this will look like um so I'm speaking in Broad terms because it's still very um in inlux it's the best way to describe it what do you mean by second okay well the state is is kind of um suggesting that there can be more than one yeah they are could be two ad on one there could be three four there could be five but they'd be subject to a special permit okay that's a state law yeah change them the state strikes once again so like right now some came in what bylaw would would they be following our ours ours that was adopted in March of last year yeah and then in couple weeks um we have to be um able to process people applying under the state exemption which is why we want to do the changes now so that we can have them in a written form by the time February 7th rolls around yeah people will probably wait anyway crazy battle they're going to they're going to wait if they have it's a really uh we have 22 forges moving ahead with our local bylaws so it depends okay well once again our state leadership has let us down we can't control what our town looks like we can't control um anything about it our Indus have always worked in case anybody that's listening in the public in Adu is very similar to what we used to call a in-law apartment and we have come up with these bylaws try to keep families together and the one thing that worked about this that never caused that kept it there from being problems was that they had to be owner occupied now our lovely state is saying it doesn't have to be own or occupied we no longer have a say in that and so once again we've been let down by our leadership and we've been let down by the state because these things are absurd this is an absurd bylaw that we're going to have to adopt and we're going to have to deal with so yeah we're better off having something on the books that gives us at least what we can think the state will allow as reasonable regulations than doing nothing yeah it's kind of like putting a big sign at the at the edge of the town when people drive into Kingston it says welcome all slum Lords because anybody can buy a property now and add all these adus and have all these rentals and we have no control of it yep so there you have it it's wrong it's very wrong but we our hands are sort of tied so there you have it thank you for the update though adjusted and when it got recodified so we'll do that we found that when that barber shop applied for a permit we found out that they according to the Way It Was Written they don't comply but we knew they do yeah so we just want to fix that so you can't just fix typos we have to actually like do have to go to town meeting and be voted or it's a clear enough uh change that it has to be voted it's not a it's not a scrier error okay so it wasn't part of the was okay I'm confused what so it was more than just transferring the information from one format to another because we completely reformatted the zoning bylaw the wording was moved and changed and put in a table and when that happened some of the uses should have been carried over weren't by mistake and it's not a it's not a simple typo it's more complicated than that so it needs to go through time it's allowing something that is not allowed which a scrier eror would never do so right a scrier eror would be like we used the word twwo for two we met to something like that yeah mhm yeah okay um and bring Road solar just uh very briefly wanted to say we did go out and do a full site walk over with the ringroad solar people um that's the solar array over the cranberry box on Friday and uh we came to some agreements on them adding more fencing to prevent people from getting too close to the wires that are there and also adding some um sleeving and things like that around the wires that should work and um we expect that we'd become see one of the things if you remember when they proposed this they said everything is 10 feet off the ground yeah and so it's Out Of Reach well come to find out the the post where it holds the wires is 10 ft and then it droops down in between like this and then you get to consider this could be somebody on a machine harvesting cranberries you got to consider that the water when they flood it could be up way up high all these things that that were not brought up and be because it was supposedly Out Of Reach turned out not to be so and um the voltage was much higher than anybody understood so the electrical inspector in plumon and the two electrical inspectors in Kingston Lenny Warner and Steve Ellis um were very uncomfortable and they would not sign off so all these things have come up and they found something in the electrical code that required protection and that resulted in some of the coverings on the Yas and the defensing got so they've been held up for a while they've got a lot of money invested there um so there you have it yeah if you know it wouldn't it's a real concern because you know we have somewhere in that thing where they talk about training for the people that are going to be OB was in bogs I mean people have us BS can change every year help because they're always looking for bodies to help I mean it's it is a concerning situation I don't like it but there we are thank you Val anything else no I I just noticed that uh the minutes are there but I just noticed there's a typo on the agenda that your next regularly scheduled meeting will be January 13th not January 6th and you have your your uh calendars we have the list yeah you the whole thing so do we want to address the minutes tonight or do we want to delay yeah we can we can address them I think everybody was here for that meeting yeah um yeah so what we have is the minutes of October 28th 2024 is that correct yes y I'll make a motion to to approve the minutes of October 28th 2024 as presented I'll second those okay it's been moving secondary to approve the minutes of October 28th 2024 all those in favor say I I I I it's 30 okay and next meeting will be January what 13th 13th so we're wishing everyone a happy holiday yes happy holidays to all to all a good night move to a journ yeah save the save your list yeah U Move yeah motion to adjourn uh second moving second to adjourn all those in favor say I I we are now adjourned thanks e e