There we go. If being a little after 7 o'clock, let's open the Kingson zoning board of appeals for Wednesday, November 5th, 2025. Can I get a second? >> Second. >> All in favor? >> I Your mics turn on.
>> All right, we have a couple more minutes so we can get to the first piece of the agenda, which is Oh, the small limit. Can't do that till after will be Kushman Farms.
All right. Minutes. We have a bunch. First set of minutes. 31925. Everyone go through them. >> Okay. I got a motion. >> I'll make a motion to approve the minutes from March 19th, 2025. We got a
second. All in favor? >> I next up on the minutes 4225 and I'll make a motion. know that I was there. >> Looking for the roll call.
I think this was a small uh meeting because I think I only see me talking the whole meeting and Bob. >> So, do we need to wait on this? >> Me and Mike, you only see me and Bob. It was a quick meeting. You guys were out of here at 7:20.
>> I think there was a third person, but >> you and Bob and uh >> I think there's only need two to approve minutes. >> Bob's not here. I don't see it on me on there either. I
don't remember which one this was. >> I remember it. He was the one who did the deck. He wanted the deck was on two corners of a street. >> Right. Right. Was this the last one we had with him? >> No. So I'm telling you I said to uh continue it.
Okay. So I wouldn't have gone forward without three people though. Marcia, were you here for this meeting? >> Uh which one are we on? >> We're on 4225. >> Yeah, there's no attendance on top. >> So
I reviewed them all. So, does that matter? Do you want me to vote on it? >> Well, you have to be there to vote on it. >> Again, >> why don't we table this for >> table it? >> Yeah. >> Lands for this one.
Uh Kevin, Marsha, you me >> make a motion. >> I'll make a motion to approve the minutes for 5725. >> Can I get a second? >> I'll second that. >> All in favor? >> I >> I make sure the names are there.
>> I was not here for that. for the 521. >> I wasn't I wasn't here for that one. >> You are >> because Kevin, you're there. You discussed the number of bedrooms. >> I was here. >> March was here. Someone want to make a motion? >> I move that we accept the
of the May 21st, 2025 zoning board. >> Second, >> can you make sure you have my mics on? >> Oh, stuck in there. >> I want to do it again,
>> please. I move that uh we accept the minutes of the zoning board of appeals me meeting on May 21, 2025. >> A second. >> Second. >> All in favor? Sorry. >> Are we on 618?
>> We are on 64. >> I can make a motion for uh to accept the minutes for June 4th, 2025. All in favor? >> I >> you there. >> Mhm. >> Okay. >> I wasn't there.
>> It was You must have been here. >> Now we're on 618. >> I thought 64. >> We just did it. >> Oh, >> 618 now. Oh, so you were here on 64, right, Kevin?
>> I wasn't. >> No, I wasn't here on 64, but >> it says I was here on 618. >> But 64 was the transfer station. >> Yes. >> And I didn't vote on that. >> I was here. It says 4 to one, but I
didn't vote. So there were five other >> right there. Was here >> was here. And Bob was here. >> Was Bob here? >> Yeah. >> And Lane was the descent the uh he
descented up. >> So we you're all set on this one then? >> Yes. When 618 >> Kevin was here for that one. >> Do we need to retake the vote on 64? >> You want to? >> Yeah. Because I didn't hear who who voted on it.
>> You made the motion. Yeah. So Kevin Doug, and you. >> Yep. Bob's here. >> Okay. All right. Just to clarify for the record. 618. >> Do you want to take a vote? >> You have to call for it.
>> Are you talking about 618 or the one before 618? >> I think sixth floor. We have the vote. The votes in. We only need two people to get minutes. >> Yeah. All right. I'll make a motion to approve the minutes for uh June 18th, 2025. >> I second. >> All in favor?
>> I I >> Thank you. >> Let's do a roll call. >> I remember that. was there was there >> I can make a motion to approve the minutes for August 6, 2025.
>> Make sure whoever was there. >> I'll second it. >> All in favor? Hi. >> Hi. >> I I don't think that was there. >> Marsha, >> I don't I I can't find it. What was talked about? >> She was there. >> 86. >> Here. >> 86. Let me see.
>> She was there. >> She was there. I'm just making sure she >> All right. I >> I very good. So, we only have one contentious one. That's April 2nd. Um April second watch the meeting and see
who's there. Wait for Bob to approve them. >> Okay, >> there's got to be three people on who the third person was. >> Dave, hello. Did you sneak in down there earlier? Say hello. All right, now it's after
710. Let's do Kushman Farms >> LLC. Lane, do you have that reading? >> Did we skip 705? Yeah, because it's a um it's asking for a um a minor
modification, a major modification. >> So, it's an impromptu part of the meeting. >> Okay. So, um you're going to Kushman Farms, >> correct? >> Okay. A public hearing will be held at town hall to hear the petition of Kush
Kushman Farms LLC, 33 Kushman Drive. um to request a comprehensive permit under Mass General Laws 40B. Um this has already been open. So, >> I'm just skimming through that.
>> Very good. Uh Doug is recusing himself and all right, let's take it away to where we at at this point. I know we had new plans last time. Um, just to be fair, we don't have a um a zoning enforcer currently
and we don't have a building inspector currently. We have part- timer. So, this is kind of for >> in general. >> Correct. So, this is a veryformational thing. >> Okay. >> Just to keep the ball rolling and get it on the record. >> Um, so I guess just be swift because I'm
sure there's going to be pieces that have changed on this. >> Okay. Thank you, Mr. Chair, members of the board. Um Megan Dutra, who is the engineer on the project, is going to be presenting um the engineering specs and the new plans tonight. Um just as a
matter of administration, can you remind me which members are sitting on this case? >> I think we everybody you see here except for Dave. Um so we have one, two, three. Bob would be four, but you're five. >> Okay. >> And then I guess Dave, could you do I
think you could technically do the moments because is now getting on it. >> I don't think that he was um appointed yet. I don't know the rule on that. >> I'll have to ask town council. >> I think he can only miss two meetings to do a Mullins,
>> right? But he he's new to the actual board. So, I'm curious if being new to the board to bring up the speed. >> Okay. I yeah >> I agree but I just don't in case we lose board members we're going to get down to certain number of board members and we might have a bigger problem on our
hands. >> Yeah I mean I >> for this >> all right well let's carry on either way. >> Okay I've never quite encountered that problem but yeah that's that's interesting. So, okay. So, um just a
little overview. We're working with the 12.7 acre parcel. The building area um as proposed is 1.14 acres. Uh proposing 144 units, 264 surface parking spaces.
Um the applicant met with the sewer commission two weeks ago. um who and the sewer commission indicated they would be sending an availability approval letter. We have not seen that yet, but I seem to
recall somebody mentioning that they received it and I'm not sure how that >> I can check. >> Okay. >> Okay, great. Um and uh the applicant also met with the water commission.
um they stated that they wanted to work with the applicant but they want a more detailed engineering uh plan. So our engineer is working on that. Okay. Uh also uh we received the traffic peer
review uh back from Gillan Associates uh and they concluded that the project had uh no significant impact on the safety or operations of the area roadways. So that was a positive
>> and that was for Gallian road. >> That was for traffic. >> Yes. >> Yep. And then is that taking in taking advantage of any future things that may be coming down the road on that on that property? >> I can't speak to that. I'm not sure. >> I'll ask Mr. Bren.
>> Okay. Okay. Um and I'll turn it over to >> What about fire? I got a letter from fire that wasn't too positive. >> Yes. So, um, Miss Ducher is going to address that because the plans, uh, I'm we're not sure which plans the fire department had reviewed.
>> They had the newest plans. >> They did have the newest plans. Okay. All right. We are definitely going to speak with them um to make sure. >> Yeah. Because they said they had problems with um >> the turnaround. >> They there's no ability to turn any of the trucks around and also access to the third floor with any of the ladder
trucks. It would not reach the ladder trucks would not reach the third floor because the backs were too small. So everything would have to be by ladder which they said would >> they'd make it happen but very very they don't know the outcome of what would come of it >> right the applicant will be addressing
that for sure. >> I just have a question when was the last time that you guys were before us? Do you remember >> Augustish? >> So >> that seems about right. >> Do we have the comprehensive traffic impact study? >> Yes.
>> It's in right just came. No, that's the peer review of our traffic study. >> Oh, >> that's their response to it. >> I don't think that it came through by my email either. >> I thought this was the traffic study.
>> No, that's our peer review. >> Yes, this is the cat in this traffic. >> All right, we'll resend I'm sure you guys can resend that. >> Maybe it's our traffic study. You mean? Yep. Got that. >> Because I know we're going to want to
look at trip counts. I'm sure he's already seen the trip count. >> Yeah. This is >> This is But I know we we would like to see them, too. I'm sure the public would like to see them also. So, that's the traffic study that you guys got, but we don't have
>> No, they sent that to our peer review and that's the review from peer review. >> Yeah. But we don't have that, >> right? I'm I'm asking to resend it. >> Yeah. Okay. I'm sorry to interrupt you. >> You didn't. I'm good.
>> I continue. Sorry. >> Okay. All right. >> While we're asking for things that we don't have, I couldn't find the storm water management report of October 2. >> I can reset that and make sure you have
all the documents. Well, it's going to change. If it's from October 2 of last year, it's going to be different. >> 2025. >> Oh, okay. >> I'm sorry. 2025. Um, and um I know it's referenced uh in
the PGB engineering review, but I've never seen the project eligibility letter dated December 19, 2022. I'm just wondering if the conditions have changed or I don't know three years
if it if it needs to be updated amended >> the conditions listed in the project eligibility letter. >> Yeah. >> Okay. That was originally submitted with the the 40B application. >> Okay. So we do have a Okay. It's buried some
>> Yeah. It's been a long ongoing process. >> Okay. It's probably >> as long as it was submitted along with Okay, thank you. >> Um, so Megan, do you want to go ahead with your presentation?
>> Uh, yep. Um, so as previously mentioned, this is kind of just anformational session to catch everyone up on where the project stands um with all the departments and the peer reviews. Uh so as mentioned we got um peer review back
from Pat Brennan recently um on that the there were a few adjustments he asked for for um drainage uh details and that sort of thing that need a few um updates. Uh but overall he
didn't um seem to find anything uh overly concerning. Uh mostly it's a discussion of waiverss and conditions of approval that he suggests for the project. Um I think one of the major things left
on it is um the sidewalk on Copper Beach Drive, the curbon of it, whether um we had originally proposed Cape Cod Burm and whether we should keep that or go with Brittle Cove curb that's um kind of standard otherwise. Uh the curb on
there currently is Cape Cod BB which is why we just matched it. Um but I think it's that would be up to the town what they'd prefer. And uh I think there was kind of a discussion whether uh the town would
prefer the sidewalk there at all. So um otherwise uh photometrics and late landscaping plans are done now. So would be submitted those with the um next set of revisions. Um
as mentioned, we got the traffic report back from Gileian Associates, uh the review of that rather. Um and there didn't really seem to be any big issues that just came in a day or two ago, so I haven't um had too much time to review
that. Um fire comments. Uh we're will be um discussing that with the fire department. They commented that they didn't have any access to the rear and um I guess we'll just investigate that with them because we do have the access
roads for them to get to the rear and they should be able to >> Well, the first building >> largely >> the first building doesn't have an access road behind it. Just shows forest. Uh there is one that goes about halfway. So they should be able to reach pretty
far. Um there's this one here. And so between here and there, they should be able to reach pretty far with the building. Um it seemed the one that they were concerned about was they said the innermost building, which I'm assuming is the um one further along, which the access road does go pretty far and it
does allow for a turnaround. Can do you have at the end did you do a um an report with the turnarounds for all the vehicles? I think >> uh >> Yep. Uh within the plan set we have all the um turnin radiuses with the fire truck. We are going to um double check
>> with cars in the parking spots. >> Sorry, repeat that. >> With cars in the parking spots. >> Yes. >> Okay. >> Yeah, it doesn't impact any of the um parking spots. Um we are going to double check with the fire department just to make sure the
specs we have for their um vehicles are correct. Um just to be sure. Um and otherwise we'll uh double check with them to make sure they know that we're proposing those access roads and if those are okay with them or if they want to see some other adjustment on
them. And maybe right now they just don't um see exactly what they want on them. Um for water um as Tanya indicated where uh in talks with the water department
they've indicated there is room to connect. Um we're just working on some more detailed plans for them to um show all the specs that they uh want to see for that. Uh sewer has indicated that
they also have um capacity. Uh we are kind of in discussions with them on kind of where they would like us to connect from. Um originally we were going to go on um Marian Drive. There was some talk
about possibly going east through MBTA. Um that was suggested by the uh sir department. Um so uh that will just be a matter of coordination with them and seeing what the um s department would prefer.
Uh we also had some comments from the planning board. Uh part of it was just checking again with um fire department to make sure everything seems okay. Um they did request that we make 15% of the spaces on site to be the full uh 10 by
20 in the planet rags which I think is something that we could certainly look at adjusting. Um and that way if there are any victim vehicles they have an option for parking. Um and the planning board also requested that we look at
um the amount of earth removal trips that would be required for the project and the period of time that those would be happening. So we'll um do some calculations and look into that. >> Where is Go ahead. Sorry. >> I'm thinking of open space in
congregation areas. Is that in the landscape plan? >> Uh the landscape plan will mostly the plantins around. We do have this area at the end um that we kind of have reserved for open space. We're doing um we're
going to develop something there or just leave it as you know woodland that people can go about. It's basically like trails. But uh normally we like to kind of get some input from the town and see if there's anything in particular you'd like to see. Um, obviously we have the amenities building up here, but there's
not a lot of green space otherwise out there except for maybe, you know, a few picnic tables or something. Uh, so we'd likely need to and something on this side or part um possibly something over here. >> Are you grading this site to flat
because I'm looking at your elevation table and it's all over the place. >> Yep. So the sites on grade it's generally at a um 2%. There is a lot of um up and down just because the site is so hilly.
>> Are you putting a retention wall in the middle there where there's that big square because it looks like it's a pretty good drop from going from >> U. Um, so right here we have a retaining wall that comes um along three sides of this and this side is just open to the
uh Thomas Street right away. >> This wall I believe ranges from 3 feet to maybe 10 ft. >> Yeah, 15 at one point. >> And then conservation, have they chimed in at all about is there anything in there?
Um the only thing that we're close to on conservation, we're outside of all of the buffers for the stream on this side. Um the only thing related to conservation we would have right now is there is a um FEMA A here in the middle
that we are uh working on a uh letter of map provision right now to try to have removed. Uh they have it modeled as a stream flowing uh basically an extension of Second Brook flowing down this way
through the school property or um through the property and then down the MBTA tracks um which as we've seen on site there's uh no stream in this area. There's certainly one on the north side of the site uh but that doesn't seem to
be what they were trying to reference. All right. Before we get to um Mr. Brennan, uh Lane, do you have anything to ask the there >> Kevin? >> Not at this time. >> Do you have anything in writing from the planning
department regarding the you mentioned the percentage of spaces they are requesting meet the current dimensional requirements and I think you mentioned one other thing, but I I I didn't get to jot that down. >> Did they provide anything?
>> Um, so most of our spaces are 9 by8. Um, as we're we were trying to make it more of a compact site since it was a 40B. Uh, the planet board regulations ask for parking spaces to be 10 ft by 20 ft. Um,
and so they asked that we up the spaces. um 15% of our spaces to be 10 by 208 ft instead of the 9 by8 ft. >> I I I know they asked for that. I just said did they put any of their request in writing?
>> We have an email from them. >> Oh, okay. With Could you provide that? Did you ask them how they felt about the waiver of uses that you might need? This is an
industrial commercial zoning district. Right. >> Right. >> And is it an overlay? Is there like a residential overlay like we have at the the old mall? So, >> uh, it's I don't believe it's a
residential overlay. I believe it's, um, was zoned as just commercial and industrial. >> Um, I don't think planning board commented on that. Um, maybe just because maybe they felt it was more of a zoning issue. Um,
>> yeah. Um just to follow up on that. Yeah. So with the 40B application process, the the point is is that you know these these residential areas because of the need of housing can go into areas that otherwise they wouldn't
be able to. >> Oh, again I'm just just curious to me it's kind of a I mean I think we'll get I don't need to get to that tonight. I don't think with you. um the the balance between uh
the desire to promote industrial and commercial development in the town. You know, that's something that the town talks a lot about. Most of our our our town is is tax base is relying
on residential development. So, it to me it's It's a it's a balancing between um what we lose and what we give up and it and what how it affects um the
adjoining residential community. I mean, I don't know if I'd rather have a residential development or an industrial development that close to where I live. So, it's I'm just curious about that. Also curious about the waiver of the uh
excavation bylaw. Have you talked to anybody about that? >> Um we have it listed on the um list of waiverss that we uh submitted with the
previous uh um submittal. Um so we haven't I mean I haven't discussed it. uh specifically. I guess it's just been on the list of waiverss. >> Is that something you would be able to
uh accommodate without a waiver? >> The the the room >> uh for this site, I don't believe that'd be possible for really any kind of development that you would try to put on
this site. The site is very hilly. um by which I mean it r it'll increase by about 30 feet in elevation over maybe 100 ft of um uh horizontal track. So it's I don't
think you could get away without um having to wave that. that would apply to any development, whether it be a residential, a commercial, or in an industrial development that >> I can't imagine anything that would be able to go here without having to wave
that. >> Okay. Thanks, >> Dave. Anything you have any questions you have with the engineer? >> All right. Very good. I'll get to the public after Mr. Brennan. Anything else before move on to peer
review? Just put it out there. >> No, sir. All right. Thank you. >> Thank you, >> Mr. Brennan. Actually, just move move at the speed you would like to. I know how these go. So, >> all right. Thank you, Mr. Chairman. Uh
Pat Brennan, PGB Engineering provided peer review on the project for the board. sent an initial letter back in May um that they changed the project as you know um some pretty substantial changes since then. So they submitted
revised plans. I reviewed those, submitted a letter October 22nd. Um it's it's fairly long, seven pages. I'm not going to go through the whole letter, but I'm just going to kind of hit on the highlight points that I think the board should probably think about and um probably discuss with the
applicant. Um the first one is um Megan just brought up. It's the proposed sidewalk along Copper Beach Road. Um they're proposing the sidewalk and they've asked for a waiver for Cape Cod Burm, but it's Cape Cod Burm right into the sidewalk. And
this has come up on past projects, you'll probably remember. Um so basically, there's really nothing um separating the sidewalk from the roadway. The Cape Cod Burm is only a 3-in rise in asphalt. So, it's it's not
a great safety um it's not very safe for pedestrians. So, I always suggest that you either have a 4ft grass strip between the Cape Cod BM and the sidewalk or you have a vertical curb. They don't have room for a 4ft grass strip within the rightway. So, my recommendation
would be to go with a vertical curb along that portion of the along Copper Beach Road. Um, and that's strictly for pedestrian safety. Um, so that's that's one of the things to discuss with the applicant. Um,
as uh Megan mentioned, there was a an email from the town planner on Monday and she did all of their they're requesting a waiver to go to 9 by8 spaces. The bylaws or your your your town standard is 10 by 20. Um the town
planner suggested maybe doing a partial waiver and getting a percentage of them and she just threw 15% out as they just mentioned. Um so again that's something to discuss with the with the applicant to see what would be a good balance of 10 by 20 and 9 by8.
Um the let's see what else. Um a question on the the the waiver for the um earth removal. Um there is a significant amount of earth work on this project. Um
the earth removal bylaw restricts it to a thousand cubic yards in a calendar year. Um that's not possible on this project. Their cut and fill analysis shows a net fill of 14,000 cubic yards. So they're hauling 14,000 cubic yards of
material into the site into into the site. >> Um By what roadway would that >> all of they in their uh plans it says all construction traffic is to go through Marian Drive.
>> I didn't through Marian Drive. >> From Marian Drive. Yes. >> From >> Yep. >> onto the site. >> Correct. Into the site from Marian Drive. Yeah. and and the plans. So, under when
the if and when the project's developed, Marian Drive is the main access point to the project. That's two-way traffic in and out. There is the um this the roadway that you see going up to Copper Beach Drive, that's one way out only. Um
and they do have um gated um gates proposed on each of those access drives that would be remote control for residents and emergency vehicles. Um and actually probably a good time to talk about the traffic review while I'm
speaking on that because that was the one question that Mr. Gillan had in his traffic report. He he he went through their their traffic um study and said that everything was done well. Um, in terms of the growth, they just did a a typical seven-year background growth.
So, I don't know. I don't know if >> there's no way that would work against us, especially for what's proposing a go across the street from it. >> Okay. So, so there may be so maybe they need to look at some, you know, some additional growth. Um, but
um the one the one question he had is a little more information on how those gates are going to work. um you know especially with emergency vehicles and probably delivery vehicles as well I would guess. Um so that other than that he was pretty
comfortable with the traffic analysis that they had done. Um but then getting back to mine um one of my other questions in my original um letter and Mr. Dan you just brought it up was the
uh retaining walls. Um, the zoning bylaw defines retaining walls as structures. So, I was questioning whether the retaining walls needed to meet the setbacks for buildings. Um, in their response, they they believed
that they don't need to. Um, but my recommendation in in the letter that I sent to you guys was to check with Well, I guess there's no building inspected to check with right now, but to well, I guess that that was my recommendation, but obviously I don't
know where that would go right now. Um, so that's that's another topic of discussion I think that the vote needs to have with the applicant. Um, >> I had some comments related to suggested conditions, particularly with test pits because some of their infiltration
systems that they show on the site um are in areas where they're going to be doing some cut. So, they haven't actually excavated down or haven't been able to excavate down to the bottom of where those um infiltration systems are going. They've said that they will do test pits
at each one of those. Um, obviously they can't do them until they start grading the site. So, um, I I put some language in there for for a condition if the B board were to approve it. >> I say how that would be counterintuitive though. That's literally >> Well, the test pits that they've they've
conducted on site show um pretty consistent material throughout the site. >> But like you said, they're going down 15 feet, but they need to go down 45, >> right? But there are places on site where they are down lower. >> So and they feel that they've done
enough. I just again we always want a test pit in the location of the >> Exactly. Because you don't know how water flowing. >> Correct. >> Look at Rocky Nook. >> Yeah. >> One place has alleged the next place is a swamp, >> right? Yep. So that's um that was one of
the comments. Um they did provide at least I had a copy of something from the sew department saying that there was available capacity and I think it was from last year actually. Um but again they they haven't provided anything about water availability.
Um and then there you know they have several uh waivers. I kind of listed them in my letter. Um I believe they need two other waivers that they didn't list. Uh one of them is from the table of uses to allow for the residential development in this zone as the
associate member mentioned and um the other one is just to allow for drain pipes less than 12 in diameter. They have several places where they have 8 in drain pipes um and less than 3 ft of cover. Um but you know I think I think the major
things are the um pretty much that the the curbing next to the sidewalk. um whether or not the retaining walls are structures because if they're structures, they got to do some redesign on the site or they have to get a waiver for the
setbacks to the retaining walls. Um and then >> yeah, I I didn't think of that. Are the are the are the walls right on the property lines? Is that why? >> Yeah, they're pretty close to them. I I believe they pulled them back to be 5 to 10 feet in most places off the property lines, but that still doesn't meet
setback requirements, >> right? the um they're also seeking waiverss for the width of the roadway. Um your the regulations call for a 30 foot wide interior driveway
um for two-way traffic and 24 foot wide aisles for two-way traffic. Um the driveway from Marian Drive until you get to the first parking spaces is 20t wide. Um once you get into where the parking spaces are, it does widen to 24 feet
wide. So that meet the 24 feet meets your regulation. The 20 ft um is narrower. So that doesn't your regulation also requires if you have two-way traffic exiting from um an area like this. You're supposed to have a a
raised island in the middle. Um so they're asking for a waiver from that as well because they only have a 20 foot wide driveway. Um, is what's the I'm trying to figure out the reason why they would cut that so small.
>> Um, I think it's just to because of the grading that's required because the wider you make it obviously the more grading you're going to need to do more filling and cutting. >> Yeah. I don't know why we do that especially since that's like their main in and out. Yep. >> For the amount of units that are coming in and out of there,
>> right? Anything else? >> Um, no. I mean, there's there's a lot in here. >> Um, >> but a lot of it's just kind of detail items that they can address pretty
easily on the plans. Um, I think these are the, you know, the high the items that the board and the applicant really need to discuss. Um, when I once I get the next set of plans, I'll kind of narrow that down and just basically give you a list of the items that I think
really need to be worked out between the board and the applicant. >> Very good. Um, Lane, any questions? >> No. >> Kevin, >> uh, no. >> Harsha. >> Um, well, not for you. Not I'm sorry. It
would be more for the more for the developer than I'm sorry, >> Dave. >> Thank you. >> Very good, >> Mr. Brennon. Thank you. Thank you. >> Um, anyone from the public want to say
anything is to be on the record. This is anformational. >> I'd like to put something on the record. Um, my name is Brit Oachinsky. I live at 15 Copper Beach Drive. Um, wrote a little thing up. I am here to express my
strong opposition to the proposed exit from the new apartment complex on Copper Beach Drive. Um, Copper Beach Drive is home to 20 families who chose the street for its quiet wooded charm, a peaceful, secluded neighborhood ideal for raising children and building community. For many of us, the location was deciding
was the deciding factor in choosing our home. You can renovate a house, but you cannot change the character of a neighborhood. Now, we are being told that our street will not only border two large apartment complexes, but will also serve as an exit point for potentially
hundreds of vehicles every day. This would fundamentally alter the nature of our neighborhood. It would disrupt the tranqu tranquility we cherish and pose serious safety concerns. Traffic exiting on the Copper Beach will funnel onto Kushman Drive, a very narrow, unlined
road, and worsen congestion near Kingston Elementary and Intermediate Schools. If this exit is being proposed to make the complex more appealing to renters, I must respectfully but firmly disagree. Our neighborhood will have sacrificed enough. We'll be losing the
promised sound buffer from the train tracks which was promised from the MBTA in the town as well as the wooded buffer from the highway and the transfer station is on that side. Uh we are losing the precious woodlands um home to countless species of wildlife that we
all see and enjoy every day. Some of our neighbors will be losing their privacy and natural beauty of their backyards which they have which they have enjoyed and been untouched for decades. These apartments and other developments like this have been met with strong opposition by the majority of Kingston residents. However, under the 40B
provisions, these projects are hard to stop. But this exit is not a requirement. It is a choice and is a choice that would cause great and irreversible harm to our neighborhood. There are countless large developments that have one way in, one way out. And I don't see why this should be any different. Um, this is not a major
inconvenience. It is a major disruption to the lives of the families who have called Copper Beach Drive their home for decades. >> And we ask that you take our concern seriously and preserve what's left to the integrity of our neighborhood. >> The train right here. >> That's it.
>> Thank you. >> Anyone else from the public? I'm just curious what that distance is. >> Hi, my name is Chance and I live in number one Copper Beach Drive. I realize nobody wants these things in their backyard and certainly we don't either.
But I've been in uh a resident of Copper Beach Drive since 1990 and when we moved in there was all woods back there. Since then, we've gotten the train and we bet a lot of promises about we'd have all kinds of uh buffer between us and the
train and that's turns out to be a false pro promise along with our street was going to be deadended only to be open to emergency vehicles. That turned out to be a false promise. But since then, we've had everything in our backyard. Not only the train, but we for years we
had the flicker from the uh windmill which since been taken down, but for years a lot of the people on our street had flicker in house. Uh just recently the police department granted us a nice shooting gallery in our backyard. Uh you know, I'd like to know what people are
going to do for us. You know, I think we got enough in our backyards. Uh if some, you know, somebody from Kico, somebody should meet with us and do something for us. We got everything in our backyard from guns going off to the train going through our backyard rumbling our
houses. Now we're going to have a a lowincome housing unit in our backyard. We got everything in our backyard. If somebody could work with us and maybe maybe like that road, we don't need that. Uh there's no reason why they
can't go out Marian drive and go come in that way. Uh you know, please do something for us, for the people on the street. you know, we have to put up with it. And I and I was here before the train was even thought of uh along with Doug and a few of my neighbors. Please work with us
if that's okay with you cuz we're not even mentioning this. Thank you. >> Yeah, I do have to bring that up to you guys. I don't know if you guys are aware. There there is a shooting range very close to you guys.
>> Oh, not you. I'm talking to the lawyer. I was actually just talking to this about Kevin that there's a shooting range that is very very very close to you guys and I don't know the law of how many feet it has to be away from a structure >> 500. >> So minimum
>> and I don't know where that line is technically considered. Is it the end of the Kingston town property? Does that start the 500 feet to where it would then be to the structure or would it be to the where cars would be? Um, it looks
like it's about the thickness of a train track um from you guys to where the the where the police fire off, which is right at the back side of the dump, which even on your own map is not very close. I just can't judge size on this. >> Do you have an address for this shooting
range? >> Uh, the transfer station. transfer a station >> the very back against the where the tea goes by. >> Okay. >> Is it an public or is it for the >> it's the police? >> Kingston police. >> Oh, so it's >> but I think they bring in other towns too.
>> So it's not open to the public but but it's the town's >> firing range, >> right? So I have a curiosity to that since I think firing wing you've been there before. You guys considered yourself connected piece of land.
>> Okay. I Yeah, we'll look into that for sure. Thank you. >> Um that would be a an issue. I just don't know what that distance is. Um anyone else from the town? I mean yes
the public sorry want to speak this is mine >> Paul Tannis 6appa beach I just want to touch upon the shooting range I think the police department put it there because of the 500 ft from our nearest residence which I believe was the back
of some houses on Copper Beach >> right I don't I can't tell by this >> I think the apartment buildings would fall within that 500 ft and the state law I believe is 500 ft It's like 500 ft from a residence and 125 from a highway, something like that.
The other thing I'd like to touch upon is the traffic study. I don't know how they can get an accurate traffic study doing it from August 6th to August 7th, 24-hour period, which is a Wednesday to Thursday with no school in, no Cape Cod
traffic, and no really any traffic in town. It seems to me that the traffic study should probably be done for a week or two weeks during the school year or somewhere around >> you need to look at it in general. And I think >> because I can't see how anyone can
factor in how a traffic study 24 hours can be accurate with no school or anything. I mean that it's impossible. It's totally impossible. So, and the other question I have is somebody can answer. Does anyone know the width of
the easement on Marian Drive to put the roads in there? >> I can't see it above. And you know, that's why I'm asking why the road isn't so so >> because I'm curious on what the width of the easement end is on Marian Drive coming into the complex and the width of
the easement for the single a uh exit on Copper Beach is because it appears to me that the the width of the exit on Copper Beach with a fire lane is sufficient enough for a two-way road to happen in the future.
I I mean I would like to see it like maybe a 12 foot width or something where the road can't be modified in the future to uh make it a two-way access which it appears to me with sidewalks going on Copper Beach
that that's a possibility in the future. And with the proposed transfer station going into the industrial park, it seems to me that we would encounter a lot of traffic because we all know electronic gates aren't
going to work. They're going to be left open. I mean, realistically, that's a that's a dream. I mean, you know, but uh so that's all I got to say. Thank you. >> Thank you. >> I know that I asked this before, but has anybody seen the traffic study? No,
that's when we requested to see it in person. Okay. So, we can count the traffic. >> It's like there's an MBTA right there. I mean, the traffic, >> right? There's MBTA. >> I don't see I don't know. >> Right. And plus, we didn't see we have to see what it looks like going on. >> And it was done in August.
>> Will this Wednesday to Thursday? >> Um the attorney, sorry, I have a question. will the uh yeah >> hold on >> not to go a little off subject from traffic which you will see the study
where where the Maran Drive access goes out that is going through a piece of property if I'm correct is the house going away and that's turning into open space what is going on there because you're you're taking a perfectly good
property that's to basically to zoning and cutting it in half. So, you're you're basically taking a you're making a property default. You can't keep the house there. >> Um Megan, would you mind putting up the
the site plan just so we're following? >> I don't know what that is. That's R40 or R20. The R20 at the smallest, but it looks like you're cutting it almost directly in half. So, are you putting that into your envelope?
>> So, right there you have the big driveway like you said come out goes right to that where that house is. Is that house going bye-bye? >> Which house the >> house would be staying? >> That one right there. Yep. So, I'd have to check uh
>> because that house would no longer meet zoning. >> I'll have to check on that. >> Turning it into a road. >> What about the one on the left? >> That one's still part of its own piece, I think. >> So, you're saying that the one this
Sorry. This one right here. >> Yeah. It looks like that's where you got the access, correct? >> So, you're concerned that it doesn't meet the dimensional requirements anymore. Is that what it is? >> Well, yeah, because I mean >> Well, it also has a road going through it,
>> so that would not meet the zoning. >> You basically taken you've taken a different piece of the of a pie and you turned it into useless land. >> So, there was a >> So, they didn't have to come in front of us to be reszoned.
It's an easement, not a >> Right. But the easement makes the other piece of property not correct. Am I correct? >> No, the doesn't take any property. It just allows us through that. So the use
seems like suddenly that road that piece of property suddenly doesn't meet setbacks and >> No, it does because >> right It's the same way on the >> Yeah, I know. But doesn't seem like it would doesn't seem to be correct. Something seems very wrong there.
>> Aren't we on You're looking on the >> I don't know if our bylaws >> capture that. >> Yeah, I just I'd have to look at the bylaws to see if an easement can go through a residential >> right here >> from industrial into residential. >> Yeah. >> I don't know. Can you
>> while you're up there, can you you can confirm that it was the traffic study was one day >> or two days? >> I can't confirm that. I don't have it with me. Okay. So, but we will >> and that was done. You guys
did that. And that was over the summer. >> Megan, do you know when that was done? >> Um, I'm looking up looking it up right now. Okay. Thank you. Right. >> It just seems like you you know that there's a school behind there. I mean, doing it in August
>> makes zero sense, >> I would say. >> So, that's going to be a big thing that I'm going to be asking about >> just to >> Yeah, I'll make a note of that, too. And it's also you have different train schedules. So you would probably need to
do weekend >> um >> weekday >> traffic on Marian Drive can be very backed up >> when the train comes in and out.
>> I don't know what this is all about. >> Very backed up. >> Yeah. and I haven't been there for a while, but I remember >> will the roadway through the development.
Is it your expectation that that will be uh taken over by the town, deed to the town, become the town's responsibility to maintain? Uh, you mean the t that the town would accept it as a public way? >> Yeah.
>> I don't think so. >> It's not. >> Yeah, it's just an access way. It's not >> No, I'm talking about the Okay.
>> Yeah, it goes right into parking up the >> It's part of It's not. >> Okay. So, how will who will maintain the >> Yeah. >> It's just like if you basically
>> same way. Okay. >> Do you have that date? Uh, it seems like it was done on Wednesday, August 6th from what I'm seeing in the report. >> One day, 24 hours.
>> Uh, yes, that seems like what it was. >> Seems severely inadequate, if not extremely cherrypicked. >> Yeah, I don't know if there's another word for severely. >> Um, might want to review that one a bit. I'll talk to the developer about that as
well. Yeah. >> Yeah. Yeah. >> And that was just Marian Drive. They must have done Kushman. They must have done >> every road around and did the lights up at Cancun. Must have done the other direction going through the school because those are all that's an oneway
exit. So those are all directions you'd have to have the counter on. Not just Marion Drive, but you say that's your only access, but then you're allowing an exit access. >> You'd have to do Kushman. You'd have to do Copper Beach. You'd have to do the main drag to the school.
>> I know it. I know it did. Did did well just based on the the uh peer reviewer u Mr. Gillan in his response that he provided this week. Um he was he did specifically
state that the developer couldn't have picked a better place to put the access point on Copper Beach because of the visibility. It was the best point. >> Well, that's only line of sight. >> That has that's only line of sight, >> right? That's line of sight. >> I mean, I'm not like we have to have
>> there's people that there's kids that bike to school. There's a lot of other factors around that area. I don't know what the name of the road is going into the school. >> What is that? >> Hilltop. >> Hilltop was not mentioned in this, >> I don't think. >> I would suggest your developer.
>> Yeah, a much better job. a new update, especially since that light right there, I bet you function as a D or an F. >> All roadtop. >> So, they did the >> Do you think it meets standards?
>> Could you do that? I think we're struggling to decide whether this is a an the adequacy of >> yeah picked >> um public sorry
>> hi Doug Dero 14 Kappa Beach Drive um yeah the traffic study traffic study was done on August 5th And one of the places was right in front of my house um 24 hours, which kind of a joke
because anybody that goes to work in the morning and has to go by Cancun knows they're going nowhere for a long long time and it's even on Saturdays. So for that report to say it's not going
to have any impact, I don't know where Mr. Gillian is coming from. Um, but back to the point of why Copper Beach Drive is closed is because a traffic study was done many years ago when the tea came uh going on 20 plus
years and they didn't want Copper Beach Drive open because of the amount of traffic back then and that was one school back then, an elementary school. Now we have two schools plus all the growth. Um the T specifically did not
want another access to the MBTA station except one access through Marian Drive and that's why they closed Copper Beach Drive. So I just wanted to remind everybody about that. I could go on and on but it's getting late. Thanks for listening.
>> Yep. Um back to the attorney. Sorry. Can you guys mold over the the ability of getting rid of that second access and turning it into emergency access only like making it a grass covered area just for access in reverse?
>> The access point to Copper Beach. Yeah. >> No, but we can >> we've done it where we've done it where the road going in is basically looks like all grass but it's >> that that >> Yeah, grass pave basically has it can hold
>> the biggest truckar. You you don't know that it's even there only they know. >> Um maybe making that a point where no one else could would use it ever other than apparatus and it just have to be maintained and basically that would dead
end your spot but emergency access can still use it. So it's still considered emergency access. Um anyone from the public >> but then you have how many parking spots are there? There are
>> at the current number, not with that 50. >> 264. >> I mean, then you have 200 cars coming in and out of one spot is the issue. >> That's that's their main opening. That's what they're that's what they're contending. They're probably going to say that only 15% would ever go down Co
Pepper Beach. >> Okay. >> Um, anyone from the public on Zoom? I guess you raise your hand or your name. >> I have >> Mr. Chair, do you hear me?
>> Yes, Mr. Bos. >> Hi. >> Yeah, thank you. Pine Boss, uh 93 Elm Street. Uh I have a number of questions that that probably could be answered if I knew where to get the plans. Do you have them available online that I
can access them or uh that includes the grading plans? You'd have to make a public record request and we probably have one in our office. They have one available. >> Yeah. I mean digitally, but would be fine. Is uh the engineer willing to
respond to an email? >> They would have to >> you'd have to still go through us. >> Public records request. >> So you'd have to do a public records request and then it'd have to go through us. You'd have to email us to then email them. >> Okay. So, um I understand uh that it's been reduced in size, but I did not hear
the number of units that are being planned. >> 144. >> Thank you. Um in terms of the grading, uh and excavation, uh the the earth removal, I can understand that there's hills and dales that need to be leveled, but I'm not
sure I understand why gravel and sand have to be removed. Is there a quantity? Uh, it was 14,000 cubic yards would have to be removed. It was our from our estimated >> Oh, brought in, excuse me. Brought in.
>> Brought in. >> Brought in. >> If when you do your records request, it has a elevation report. >> Excellent. Um, the the uh site is uh how many of those 144 units are low income?
It' be 20%. How many? That's the math. >> 20% is >> 20% is good. >> Yeah, 20% is good enough. >> And uh how about ADA? Um uh accessibility issues.
>> They'd have to comply but doesn't go away. Um uh so in terms of vehicles or how many units per how many vehicles per unit >> you must have that >> and what >> probably 1.2 or 1.6 or something like
that >> because it's not vehicles per unit it's spaces parking spaces per unit. Um, and I believe those are on the engineering plans, right Megan? The >> 1.83 >> for the onebedroom, twobedroom,
>> 1.83, but they might change it because planning asks you to change 15% to a bigger size. Right. >> So that might change to a lower number, >> right? But right now it's 1.83. >> Correct. >> With a 9 by 18 foot spot, which is like
a >> which is Yeah. Um, in terms of the community space, are you considering like um besides just uh wood woodwalking
uh uh community garden spacing and that kind of thing? >> That's something it is going to be approached at some point >> um through the chair. Yeah. Yes. Well, the green space issue that we discussed earlier. Um >> yeah, we discussed that. >> We did. We we touched on it,
>> right? >> Is there is that written down anywhere? >> No, they don't have they don't have a landscape plan fully done yet. >> But but there will be one coming before the site is approved. >> Yes, I think this is step 2, I guess you would say, out of they've changed the
plan so many times they've haven't I don't think they've gotten that far yet. >> No, no, I understand that. I'm just trying to catch up really because I feel a little behind. Um, as far as dedicated conservation and open space, I know that originally there was some access off of
Kushman Drive that is not happening now. Is that going to be like donated to the town or dedicated as open space? >> That's a question for them. >> Um, through the chair, we would again have to discuss that with when the
landscape plan is done as far as open space. Will you con will you include that in your planning, please? >> Consider it. >> I'm sure they consider it. >> We can consider it. Yes.
>> Thank you. Um, and in terms of the buildings, are they going to have basement or are they going to be on slab or what's the kind of construct? And and is it I think I heard three stories. >> Good. >> Megan, can you talk to construction?
Uh the buildings are four stories. There is no basement except for possibly a small mechanical room. I have to be in the basement um to facilitate uh water to get it up to all the stories. >> Thank you. And um the drainage areas are
they laid out on the plans that I will get after my PRR? >> Um I think there is, right? Yeah, there is. The drainages report is in there. Correct. And is it is any of that drainage near
the so-called contested FEMA area? >> Don't know. Our engineer doesn't think so. >> But it would be on the plan. >> Correct. >> And the FEMA is still on the plan
because it hasn't been resolved with FEMA yet. It should be on the plan. >> Okay. Um I think that's it for now. Thanks very much. >> Thank you. Anyone else on Zoom?
>> Very good. Anybody else before we conclude this for the tonight? >> No. >> Very good. We're going to need a continued date and we're going to need a waiver continuing probably a couple weeks past it too. >> Right. I talked to Gan about that. So,
we will get a waiver request um or a waiver to you. And as far as next date, >> not to kick the can far, but you're going to have problems come December and late Janu early January, excuse me. >> Problems?
>> Yeah, probably like the holidays, people not around, like people. >> How long do you need? And you're going to need a traffic study. >> Well, we can proceed with uh Megan, how far along are we on the landscape plans
and that we can focus on different portions going forward. >> Uh so the landscape plant and the photometrics are done now. Um so we have those. We were just waiting to give everything in one submitt. Um so it was all together.
>> Okay. So, next meeting we could discuss those issues since those are finished. And >> please include open space and where you're going to put all the snow. You can't put it in that big square in the middle.
>> I think that was discussed already. >> Yeah, the snow storage is >> Make sure you have it written out a plan >> unless you're going to be hauling it out of there because it's going to be part of your um whatchamacallit your um >> conditions. another condition but for
the homeowner associ storage is included currently on the layout plans. >> Not to go completely off topic on it. Can that area have salt at all? >> Uh there isn't restrictions for salt. Um
we do call in our report to use the minimum necessary. >> I just said no because you have sensitive areas in that in that zone. >> No no no sensitive. Okay. Just making sure because I know there's a wellhead not too far away.
>> Okay, very good. Uh date, what are you thinking? >> Uh so we could do a December meeting just to cover the phototric plan and the landscape plan. >> It's just going to be another talk about I don't think we're going to have a
zoning enforcer or zoning or whatever. That's fine. I'm just saying that's all you're going to get out of it. >> Okay. If if the board prefers, we can go to January. But >> want to try the second week of January? A second meeting of January. When is that? >> January. >> The 21st.
>> Nothing seem more plausible. >> The other one's what? January 7th. Am I right? >> Yep. >> Are you guys okay with that? >> Yes. >> Might get a lot more out of it. >> Okay.
>> The 21st. Yeah. So, are we able to >> not the seventh? >> Um, >> I don't care. I just know I don't know when vacation is. >> Are we able to request a more detailed traffic study from them?
Like >> I just I just asked them that we give a much better one. >> I'll talk with the applicant about it. >> Shouldn't be like during holiday break. you know, I just >> it should stay a couple of weeks, maybe
a week or at least. >> So, typically, I think I was just at another 40B in Dartmouth this week and the peer reviewer was saying that there's a typically it's a 48 hour. Um, >> is there a school train station near that one?
>> Uh, >> you have to understand like the train station. >> So, they have they have UMass Dartmouth right there. So, they were their traffic issues are a little bit different. Um, >> but >> I mean, it's up to you. You guys can use that report. We're just going to
>> it apart. >> Yep. I'll let the applicant know and and and see what he wants to do. So, >> because we'll put that >> Okay. So, just for clarity, are we talking about the 21st or the 7th? I was thinking the 21st just to get away from the holidays, but
>> 21st. Okay. >> I think is the smarter just for trying to keep a full board here. >> Okay. Thank you. >> So, is that what you want? 21st. >> Yep. >> Make a motion to continue this um
Kushman Farms to January 21st at 7 o'clock. >> I'll make that motion. >> Perfect. Can I second? >> Second. All in favor? I >> thank you. >> Thank you. >> Thank you. >> We did the minutes.
>> All right. We have one last thing. Uh impromptu for North Street. >> Step right up. Uh, your name and your >> My name is Kate Santa Maria. Um, and my husband's name is Henry Gavin.
>> Doug, you bring back on. Sorry. >> I'm sorry. >> Had to bring him on. >> Repeat it. >> Yes, please. >> Okay. My name is Kate Santa Maria and um my husband's name is Henry Gavin. We live at four North Street and um I have
a permit for a deck that I put on in 2019 and now I just want to put a roof on it. Um and Paul Armstrong told me that I needed an addendum um on the permit that I have right now. >> Now you do not you didn't send the
permit with us. So that might be one of the only issue I'm having to this. >> I have a permit. >> You have the permit? >> Yeah. >> All right. The only reason I say that is because you're asking for three things and only one of them's on the permit.
>> So I have a permit. >> Yeah. Can I have to see it? >> Oh, >> we we need a copies of it. So I know I know it's improv, too, but I'm just saying >> I'll put it out to you and the board. You have a deck and you want to enclose the deck, >> right? Exactly. And I have plans, but you should know.
>> Oh, that's Oh, this is the only thing with your permit. No, usually the permit has your conditions and everything to it. You even have the price. >> Yeah, you didn't have to send that. >> How much do we have on this? >> Oh, this is just everything you said.
>> Yeah, you're missing the original permit. >> The original permit. >> It just states what it says. Replace existing deck that is poor condition. and enlarge the front side deck. That's all. That's from 2019. So >> that's from the front.
>> Yeah, I guess that's too vague. >> Building. >> That's just the I guess that is I'm thinking you went through zoning, but you didn't probably have to because it was just replacing a deck, >> right? >> Um
yeah, you're changing it to living space. >> Come before this board years ago. >> Y >> about changing the deck. There was it was like a small deck like it was just a landing rail. >> So they would have had a special permit for it. Correct.
>> That that's what that is. >> No, you would had conditions who was there the vote um you're missing information. The only reason I'm I'm thinking you're missing information is a lot of the decks that we did or or people that would close it. We wouldn't allow heat because we
wouldn't want you to turn into living space. And if you turned into living space, you definitely would have to come in front of us for a special permit. >> Well, look, see, this permit was issued to 2019, >> right? >> And then this here, >> but it's just to replace an existing deck. It's not to unless you But he
expanded it. >> I did expand. >> So, it must have got a special permit. >> Yeah, >> I think it came before the board. >> So, did I think I was on >> You hired a company to do this, right? >> Yeah. >> Are are they not They could file the
She's >> they tried and then Paul told him that I just really needed and so I mean this been more like two months. >> Um here a couple of times but there's been no >> no meetings. Yeah. So he sent her here.
Go to the podium just so we can hear you. You're good. Um >> he sent her here because he wanted to have her ask us and we felt that this was a minor a minor >> Oh, I see. So we already >> modification
>> minor modification that we would allow her to basically >> to turn her deck into living space. >> Is there some is it because he just didn't know or is there some >> heision? He was just from what I I took
from him is he was he goes you have the deck and he goes it's up to the zoning board. Um they can decide whether this is >> you're not increasing the footprint >> at all. You're just enclosing it >> and adding heat >> or you're h you're adding heat.
>> Well, I'm you know I opening it up to the living space. Yes, there'll be heat in there. >> It will increase the square footage of your li your home. >> Correct. >> Um well, living space. >> Living space. >> Yeah. >> 20 three5
days a year. >> It's just not like a a summer. >> It's not a threeseason. >> Three season. >> No. Thank you. Four season. >> Okay. I, you know, with all due respect, I it's hard for me to find that it's a a
minor. >> Yeah, I agree with myself. >> When I looked at the price tag, I thought $65,000 for a roof. I was >> That's what I thought, too. >> Yeah. No, that wasn't my idea. I'm just trying to get >> I understand really. And I don't want to make your
>> I can pull the I'll pull the board. Um, but I think you're going to have to go through zoning and get a an actual special permit for it. That's my that's my feeling. I'll pull the board. >> So, and what's the process for that? >> So, the process you go down, you see Genie, she give you um well, actually, you go down the building department.
Sorry. You get a special permit request. You've done most of the work already or whoever your architect did at least 50% of the work. You'll have to have a plot plan. You'll have to show exactly where it is. Um, >> so who will sign off that she needs a
special permit? >> I know that's the big >> I heard there was going to be a part-time guy coming soon. >> There's no contract that has been signed. I don't know what the date is >> rumors about. >> I don't I don't have that information. >> So that then becomes the other problem that we have in time.
>> So for two months I've been trying to get >> Yeah, I get it. I get it. We get it. I know. Um, we just still can't make that a I I can't make I pull a board where you felt like I get too lane. Do you think that's a minority? >> I honestly I don't have an opinion
because I don't know what the special permit. >> She I don't think she had one. >> I think she just replaced a deck back in the day. >> I don't know where like I don't have any information on it. >> Well, I got to need information because I don't know if she has to go in front of us for a special permit or stay in a minor. We're going to need
>> what I'm saying is not minor. >> Okay, I got enough with four. Um, so you're going to have to go down the building part. We see Paula, at least get it going, at least put it in as a special permit. I don't know who will sign off on it. Maybe we get someone an interm or or maybe um
planning. >> Does Paul Armstrong? >> I think >> he's retired. >> I mean, you know, working. Oh, he is. >> Can we get >> Well, there's literally no >> planning.
>> Dad hasn't been set in stone yet. >> So, >> well, she can at least do the fill out the application and have it sitting as the next >> Right. Well, I I don't understand the problem. >> You're you're adding living space into a >> Okay. It's a living space. >> Yeah. if it was a deck or you were
asking for a like you're adding six feet of stairs down the deck or you're >> or you said like can I just put like a just a roof over and leave it screened maybe that be that would still be kind of iffy >> that would be that's probably what Paul was thinking it was more of a
threeseason but this is a full you're adding living space >> right >> you're adding a full area to live in so you're adding >> less than 200 square feet it's just >> trust me everybody in the nook would do it if that was okay it's Everyone is doing it. >> I know. But I mean, but they're going
through their minds doing it and >> and um I you know I find that kind of I'm not saying we'd be a problem. I'm just saying we have to do the proper channels and it's it looks like your person is doing the decent run of work. It's just we're going to have a time card issue because of we don't have a
>> and you may not even need I mean if it all complies with zoning and >> Well, it does. Oh, you're in the Oh, I'm sorry. >> It It does. It's too >> Yeah, >> you're non You already start You're already non-conforming. So, >> I I didn't realize that.
>> Yeah, you're already non-conforming. So, anything you chase that house, you have to come in front of us. >> I know. And I have I've done I've done the whole house over. So, >> yeah. Yeah. So, you'll have to do it. >> I I haven't I haven't bought a window or a door, anything. I mean, I have a contractor. We're just standing waiting
and for two months, I had to come down here. >> Right. So, you're going to have to go. you're gonna have to do the proper channel, go fill a special permit, and then we could have done that in the beginning. Um, >> well, I suggested that, but he said I wouldn't have a problem. >> Yeah. So, >> um, but you can fill out the special
permit request and get in line to get before us. >> Yeah. >> Right away. You don't need a a building >> inspector. You need a building inspector to sign off on it. Yeah. Someone to basically state what's going on there. >> Yeah. Yeah. >> Can't they just fill that out?
>> No, they get it wrong. >> On the bottom of the form >> for the in the building. >> It's like the page two. Page two of all of them when you get them in has Paul's signature on it or Dave's signature on it. >> Oh jeez. >> But that permit was a special permit. Right.
>> Right. You're But now you're changing your full change. So it's not it's not a minor modification. It's it's it's a major. You're adding it basically as living space. You're taking it the deck. which is just a deck into part of your home, >> right?
>> So, you're going to have to come in front of it >> in front of us, but I would go down just at least have it filled out, sitting ready to roll with Paula. >> And then even if we get a intern person to fill out some paperwork real quick, >> I don't. >> So, how long would this process take? I
mean I mean if I know you don't have the the staff, all right, but >> Right. If if not, you'd probably be a month and a half maybe if we have the staff. If we had the staff, >> if you don't I know. Well, you don't, right? So, so I don't have that. >> So, I don't want to keep on coming here
and, you know, >> you wouldn't have to. So, just >> and getting cancelled or whatever. >> Nope. Just go go go down and get down to the building inspector office and fill out the form and just be ready to roll when they when we get somebody. It might be a month. It might be three months. I don't know. We don't have a person.
>> Um, >> I don't have a time frame on >> Yeah. I need stink in spring. >> Yeah, you might be right. But like I said, if you have the paperwork sitting and we get somebody in or even if we got someone part-time and fills up the paperwork
>> and then I have to come to another >> you have to come for an actual meeting for you. >> Yeah. >> Which you've done before. So >> yeah, >> should be pretty easy. >> Okay. >> Just make sure you have a slight plan and everything correct, which it looked like you had. >> All right. >> It shows the setbacks. All right. >> Right. Exactly.
>> Okay. >> Thank you. Thank you. >> Tomorrow I can send you the the form that you'll need to fill out >> and um >> Oh, you have it. And >> I gave it to >> I didn't I didn't turn it around.
>> Oh, >> yeah. Yeah, you can have my my other copy of it. Everybody has a copy of the same permit from the front. That's it right there. >> Do you want this one here? >> Sure. I I just wanted to keep a copy. >> Sure. That's all I have. >> Yeah, that's the copy you gave us. I just didn't realize you didn't have a special permit. That's all I was looking for.
All right. Motion to adjurnn unless we have anything else. >> Motion to adjurnn. >> We got a second. >> Second. >> All in favor? All right.