Are we live? >> All right. It being a little after 700 p.m. on December 17th, 2025, let's open the Kingston Voting Board of Appeals. Can I get a second? >> Second. >> All in favor? >> I >> I >> I. Excellent.
Uh, first on the agenda for tonight is uh what address? Four North Street. Kevin, take it away. A public hearing will be held at Town Hall 26th Avenue Green Street, room 200 on Wednesday, December 17th, 2025 at
7:05 p.m. Applicant Henry Gavin Gavin and Kate Santa Marie for North Street map 39 lot 26 seeking a special permit to demolish existing
deck keep framing and convert into in addition to the home preexisting non-conforming dwelling proposed plans does not meet 4.2 2. A4
A and 10.4B.3.4 Compliance Kingston bylaws. >> Thank you. Can I get a second to open it? >> I second it. >> All in favor? >> I. >> All right. Whoever is going to speak, go to the podium. Make sure the little green light is on. It'll have a little
push button on the bottom. Um, and take it away. Make sure is a little green light there in front of you. >> Hit the push button. >> Is it green now? >> Yeah.
>> All right. Take it away. >> Oh, wait. >> Hold on. It's not It's not on. >> Oh, thank you. Um what I'm proposing to do is um enclose my deck, but in order to do that
um to a a four seasons room. In order to do that, I have to dismantle the deck that's there so I can put in more support underneath it. Um I'm in um 19 ft away from my um
neighbors, so the setback's okay. Um, I originally had put a deck there, but because uh my husband and I are getting older and um I've had to have knee surgery, we need a room to just kind of like a
living room. I don't have a living room. My first floor is all kitchen and then I have um a second and third floor. So, um we just need some place to kind of sit um in any times that we have any recovery.
Um presently, um I had an architect figure out, you know, the the system of the the room and um I have that paperwork
included. So, >> so this is a it's basically a threeseason room with heat. Still has the slider there. >> I believe you were planning on leaving the slider. Yes. >> Yeah, we are going to leave it because it's a French door. It's not really a
slider. It's a French door. So, um I want the the main part of the house closed off from it. >> Okay. So, it's more of a threeseason room than a >> Yeah. >> We thought you were blowing out the walls. >> No. make it blown up to be blown in at all. >> No,
>> they really just >> Hold on. If you Sorry, if you talk, you got to be on the mic. >> No, I I just had the house reshingled. The whole house reshingled. When I bought the house, it was in such disrepair. I've I've been living in Kingston for 20 years. And this is my second home. And um there it was leaking
everywhere. I've I've done the whole house over. So, I want to maintain the house. I just want an extra room. What? Um, the deck look like it's floating. Are you putting a foundation on there or any supports?
>> Yeah. If you want to Yeah. Yeah. If you want to stand next to you, just if you want to speak, you got to be in the mic so people on TV can hear you. >> Thank you so much for for hearing us tonight and taking your time. >> So, yeah, basically my name is Thomas Curry. I'm the I'll be the contractor of
the Mastercraft building. >> Thank you. Um, so you know, we're just she's just looking for someplace to age in place. You know, the problem is in any kind of recovery, anything that's happening, you know, they've got to fight through these stairs to get up to any kind of living space. And on the
first floor, all there is is a bathroom, a kitchen, and that's it. So, you know, I think in in light of that, she just wants the ability to be able to age in place. Um, it it will be closed off. There will be doors. It will not be
remain open. Uh we will be adding um footings per the architectural plans. >> So just footings. >> Yeah, there's already addition there's already existing um quite a few I think.
Uh I want to say there's already four there and we're going to go around the perimeter and add a bunch of support. There'll be nothing on top of it, just a a roof. It's a one one floor deal. So, >> well, I mean, I can ask the other board and your plans. The plans are good
plans, but you don't lay out where the kitchen or the where the bathroom is. You just add the addition on. I guess it's very basic. >> Yeah, we're not we're not changing anything outside of the um that threeseason room essentially.
>> What's this threeseason room? >> Um >> yeah, it's 13 by 13 roughly. >> 13 by 13. And we're also, if you look at, you know, that we're only kind of um outside of non-conforming on one side of the
property line. If you look at the setbacks and and we're not encroaching any more to that side that we're non-conforming, the only place we'd be uh adding would be in the front for a little roof to prevent some of the uh snow, etc.
What roof? What are you talking about? In the front. Oh, >> in the front of that little addition, there's a little uh hip hip roof to uh >> shed some of the rain >> where the stairs are. >> Shows a door. Oh, okay. It's a hip roof over that door. Just It's not 3D. Okay.
See it now. >> Windows, >> but those stairs. You don't have the stairs in the layout. The stairs go to the front of the house. All the way to the front. >> Yeah. the the the the stairs. Yeah, it's
just a set of stairs. Uh just a second point of egress out of that room. >> Yeah. I'm just still part of the permit >> cuz your non-conformity is not just your side set back, but it's also your front set. >> It's also the front >> in that front area though. I don't believe it comes any further than what
the existing house is. >> It doesn't. It doesn't. That's what I'm saying. It's part of this package. Correct. Um, how many bedrooms? >> Three. >> Is this screwing up any parking?
>> Yes, I have four. Four parking. >> I currently don't have much. Um Kevin. >> Okay. So, is the parking on the right side of the house? >> Uh if you're facing the house, the left >> where the additions go. >> Okay. And this addition is on the
>> left. >> On the left. Okay. >> Um and there's an existing deck right there. Same footprint. >> Yes, sir. >> Just is there a roof on that now or No. No. >> No. Okay.
Um, that's all I I know it's it's close to the street, isn't it? >> Um, what's close to the street? >> Uh, the the front of that house there >> distance wise,
>> uh, yeah, the dis where the house currently is, it's it would probably be considered closer to the street. >> 13 >> 142. And but you still have enough room for parking the cars there. >> The park the cars are they're not um
front of the house. They're on the side of the house. The side that's where I have all the area. So I don't really have a backyard because um half of it is it was it was there when I got there. >> Is just not to cut off Kevin. Is your
parking asphel or is it crushed stone? eggs. >> Did you do the calculations of this new >> of this new you might be hitting an impervious surface problem which would require variance
>> and >> the deck >> the deck is back. So, we need to know the square footage of your property lot with your building, with your deck, with your stairs, with your pavement. That can't go over I think it's 25%
>> of your total lots a lot. And your lot's tiny. >> Um, so that's a part of the math, >> okay, >> of it. If you if if you go over that, you will require variance, which is a different level. >> Um, but don't you have that on the plans there on the the original plans? You
don't we don't have your >> We don't have your >> It's not calculated out for you. >> Well, I don't have the pavement on anything. >> Like months ago. >> No, but it's not on your plot plan. >> Yeah. So the so the way it is I'm sorry
about that. Um so the the way her parking is, it's not uh perpendicular to the street. It's parallel to the street. >> Oh, parallel. Okay. >> So So it's not really um >> still got to know the math. >> Okay. All right. Um, only reason we have to know the math is because you can't, like I said, you can't go over 25%.
>> Over 25%. >> And right now having that, you basically the roof coverage, your 13 by13 plus your extra hip roof is creating impervious more impervious surface. And so if you're hitting that threshold, that's why if you had crushed
stone, I wouldn't even worry because I know you wouldn't make it. >> If you had shells, I wouldn't even worry. You're ain't going to make it. But having pavement is just more on purpose surface. And on top of that, because if you do over the 25, we got to know where your water is going. Okay. >> Um just because you're hitting that
threshold. >> Um you don't want to hit that threshold. >> No. >> Um >> but it's step back from the >> um >> it's it's just a math ratio. >> So So if So if the parking in front was
crush stone or shells, then it wouldn't be >> it would be pvious surface. >> Per surface and you wouldn't be worried about it. >> Nope. Even if you made it to that exact number of under 25%. So you wouldn't have to take let's say all the asphalt. You just have to hit
the magic number. >> Okay. >> But I built the pavers. You know it's asphalt and I have pavers then the deck. >> Well, he's saying he's talking about No, it has to do with the square footage
>> of of of the the overall. >> Right. Right. You could be close. You could be right on the line. I just I don't have that math. I don't have the math. >> I'm not gonna do the math to be honest. >> All right. So So So you can't exceed So 25% needs to be
uncovered or you can only cover 25. >> Only cover 25% of your total lot and you have a small lot. >> Okay. So we need to do the calculations on that. Get that figured out. And you guys are going to want >> So what you'd have to do is you'd have to put on a site plan your parking spot that is that that is paved
>> and either figure out we're going to shave it to this. We're going to take 5T off of this times whatever and make it shells or something else. And >> because you got to remember your walkways are impervious surface too. And we try to fudge those a little bit. But if you're having these huge walkways
everywhere, >> you could also try to get a var >> three pack. Yeah. And you need >> they said she said said she had four. >> So it just >> I know but she only lives through those shelves in the bedroom. >> And you only need three parking spaces. So you could turn one parking space into
crushed stone. >> If if she were to uh comply and say that she would remove the pavement and put shells, >> say some sign something saying she would do that as conting, you know, >> we can make it a condition >> a condition that we in order to move
this if that's the thing holding us up. You know what? Four of the spots. Three are only on one side where we're talking about where the pavement is. >> It it it's just the math ratio. I understand everything you're saying. >> But if we But if we sign something, >> 70 75% of your lot has to be
>> okay. >> Pervious surface. >> Would you sign something to Yeah. >> So she'd sign something in order to >> You can even draw in here and then say this math combined. You know what I mean? You don't have to do it right this second because you might have other things coming from other people. >> Okay. All right. Kevin, go ahead. Sorry
I cut you off. >> Uh, that was it. It's just that So, this addition going from by this front elevation here, the addition is going to the left side and your pockets right in the front. >> Correct. >> Okay. All right. >> Correct.
>> That That was my only question. >> You might have mentioned it. I It's You've referenced this it as a threeseason room. Does that mean it's not going to have any heat? >> It will have heat. It will have some
electric heat in there. Okay. It will be insulated. >> So, it it's really a a fully functioning addition to your >> It will it won't have cooling in there, but yes, it will essentially be >> essentially it just won't have AC.
>> Correct. >> Correct. >> Yeah. >> It will not be a bedroom. It we not looking to increase any bedrooms or anything. It's >> Oh, no. It's just I I I want cuz when you said threeseason, I got confused. I have a threeseason porch. It's really
cold out there right now. >> I don't have any other questions. >> Um >> are you asking are you trying to are you increasing the size of the the the deck? In other words, it looks like on your on your framing plan, it looks like you're adding to the size of it. I think she
said she was going to try and increase it to the side that she had uh the space potentially, but if that was going to be a condition to to stop it, well, we were willing to scale back to >> exactly the footprint if that's if that's >> So, how big is it now? My my my plot
plan, it's hard to read because it's cut. It's in two pieces. I >> um 10 by 11. >> So, it's 10 by 11 now. >> It's 11 by 12. >> It's 11 by 12 now. >> Yeah. 5,000. >> And you want to make it how big? >> 13. >> Um 13 by 13. >> 13 by 13.
>> So you're going you're increasing it on the side and you're increasing it towards the street. >> Yes. Uh yes. >> Yeah. Because there's just because we're moving the stairs up. >> Okay. So how far is it off the right hand uh the left hand side if you're looking at the
>> um it's 13. Is that what you said? >> I think it's 15 off the off your neighbor. Oh, I it's um >> it's 19 off my neighbor. >> Well, it's 31. I'm sorry. It's 31 for my
foundation and the the 12. >> Yeah. 19. >> Okay. >> Um I think that's it. I just I I mean it really comes down to your lot. Your lot size is 288 square feet. So, how big is, you know,
your footprint of your house, the deck, >> the driveway? >> Yeah. >> You know, >> see, that's all that >> this is a tiny lot. >> Yeah. Well, it's a tiny house, too. It's 400 square ft. >> Oh, I believe you. I believe you. >> on every floor. So, >> so it's 400 on the first floor now and then you're adding another 100.
>> Yeah. >> And whatever it is, 13 by I'm sorry, I forget what size it is. Um, >> we need some >> Yeah, >> we might be real close actually. >> Yeah, we, as I said, you know, we'd be
willing to we could get those calculations, but we'd be willing to sign something if we don't meet that. We'd be willing to >> Yeah. >> get rid of the pavement and put whatever's going to be an appropriate substrate for >> um >> and and what about that extra 100 square
feet? Is that essential to the project as well? Enlarging what you >> It was more just for the symmetry. I think it was I don't think it's that important, but it had to do with kind of the way everything laid out to make it more >> aesthetically aesthetically looked better.
>> Yeah. >> Okay. Thank you. >> It was a design call. It wasn't >> um So, the only few problems I have is your site plan a doesn't it's going to need your pavement on there. B, it doesn't have the front deck and stairs on it.
>> And C, it doesn't have the extension of the stairs off of your deck with the hip roof. You just put the hip roof, but you didn't include the stairs. Um, so all these things are actually attached to the building, so they count as part of the pot plan. >> Yep. >> Um, unless they're made out of stone,
um, then it's a different idea. Um, so the plot plan definitely has to be updated for those three things cuz it's not on the plan. Um, and then I understand that you figure
out the pavement. I I mean I can ask the board what they feel if we feel like conditioning, you know, fix the plot plan because we don't have to vote on it until it's you know, we can give them a we can give it to them with conditions and then we don't have to improve it
until everything's there. It can it's done but not done, >> right? >> Yeah. Um that's if you're feeling of going that way. I don't know what you're feeling. >> That makes sense to me. I have one other question though now. >> Go ahead. Are are there stairs to the
existing deck? >> There are. Okay. All right. And then it's just the hip roof. >> Oh, turn your mic on. You must have your mic off. >> And it's just the little hip roof part and that little looks like a little landing right under that hip roof.
>> You need a landing come out the door and then >> Right. But you had to move Did you have to move the stairs closer to the street? >> Yeah. Yeah, >> you did. But it doesn't I know it doesn't go in front of your your house. >> Right. Right.
>> So, as to Paul's point, I you know, I think that I'm inclined to approve it as long as the record is sort of cleaned up a little bit. >> Absolutely. We'd be willing to do whatever you would like. >> You meet that 25%
and it sounds like you're highly motivated to make that happen. So, >> yes, we are. Um, you want to make uh make motion to close it? >> I make a motion that we close the hearing. Um, >> I got a second.
>> Second. >> All in favor? >> I >> I >> I Any discussion? >> Um, the funny part is Kevin, you were here for this. Doug was too. Yeah. Yeah, they both were.
>> And Lane, I'm trying to remember it, but >> I thought that was the deck in the front that we >> Yeah, they they fixed the deck and the side deck. >> I think we did both. That's what that thing said. Both side like to Right. >> Um now we we're looking at No, we changed.
>> We just ask them to >> do we want to vote or just ask? >> Yeah. So, I was going to say, so we want to make a motion to approve >> to approve the special permit with the condition that the site map be corrected with um everything that's on the
building on the site map and impervious surface put onto the um the site map also and that calculations be tab uh tabled and put aside either on the big one or on a new one of these. Um,
probably who's who's your who's your engineer or site planner? Um, >> I believe it should say uh on there >> whoever whoever has a stamp. Just haven't put it on there with a stamp. Something that something quick. Um, >> okay. >> And it has to be on this and because
you're going to be held to the site plan and this plan. >> Okay. >> Um, that has it on there that they're willing to use their their professional engineering stamp on. Okay. Um, which should be a quick add-on in the in the builder's notes for them. Um, so you
need to show at least three parking spots and whatever that imperfect surface is. >> Okay. >> All right. If you put shelves next to it, if you put stones next to it, don't care. Doesn't have to I don't think it needs to be on there. Any other condition I'm missing? >> We don't care how many parking spaces
they have as long as they meet the impervious surface rail. >> Right. Okay. Well, you got to have a minimum of >> three, which they said, which they said they have four. >> If they have four, if they can keep four, hey, >> go for it. >> Um, was there any other condition? Site plan the previous service.
>> Oh, we did close, but I didn't see any I don't see anybody on there. >> Anybody got Maybe she does. >> I just Yeah, I don't see anybody up there or anything. So, um, like it's hard to ask the public.
Um >> but it's um yeah I mean the plan we just can't um tell how where the lot line is >> adjacent to this. So it's on the plan. >> That's my >> Yeah. And and and just to be quick uh
not to make it uh over crazy on the main floor where it has your addition can you just have them draw out quickly where the bathroom is in the kitchen. >> Just so we know that's not being turned into a bedroom. >> Yep. Absolutely. >> Such a weird. >> Yeah. It's on the far side of the house. It's on. >> Yeah. Yeah. Just a quick just a quick
draw. This is kitchen. The just kind of have them sketch existing where all the one thing. Normally we ask for every floor, but I don't think it really matters. >> Oh, it's not the >> So, who wants to make the motion? >> I'll try.
>> Okay. >> Um, I move that we approve. >> I make a motion. I make a motion that we approve the application for a special permit uh
for Henry Gavin and Kate Santa Maria located for North Street. >> Very good. to um demolish the existing deck. Um and to
convert the framing into an addition to the home, >> a four-season room, >> right? A home. A a fourseason room. uh on the condition that um the
applicant submit re resubmit a site map with all details of the site, you know, sideyard, front yard, etc. and um the existing condition the existing the proposed addition to the the existing
structure. Uh and include imperous service surface details and a new table depicting the uh >> impervious service >> the impervious surface the minimum
requirements of the zoning. You see those little sidebar? You're in I think you know what we're speaking of. Um on those conditions >> and you'll be held on those conditions. >> Yes, sir. >> And that they be made a part of your perm >> and we Right. Correct. >> Absolutely. >> So if they're not So basically we're
going to take a vote if the vote passes on that motion. You are then you don't have the permit yet. You have to go through appeals period and then we'll then get once we shield and hand it to me. will peruse it, make sure everything that we just
gave for conditions is in there and then I'll sign it or one of them will sign it. She'll take it down to the clerk. It'll be stamped. Actually, that's when the appeal period starts, right when it gets stamped by the clerk. >> Um, so, but once you give her everything she needs, we peruse it and it's all
there and you get the stamp. Only thing you can do is get a foundation permit because at your own peril during the um uh appeal period. >> Okay. All right. Um, so with that motion, uh, can I get a second? >> Second.
>> All in favor? >> I. >> Very good. >> Thank you so much. Thank you everyone here. >> Thank you, Tom. >> Anything else on the agenda? No. Just remember, we got those those minutes that are kind of floating around. I
don't think there's much to them. is great. >> All right. Anyone want to make a motion? >> I move that we adjourn. >> Can I get a second? >> Second. >> All in favor? >> I. >> Good night. Thank you.
>> Thank you.