##VIDEO ID:mp6z1Lqxc3E## e e e e e e e e e e e e e e e e e e e e e e e e e e e e e e e e e e e e e e e e e e e e e e e e e e e e e e e e e e e e e e e e e e e e e e e e e e e e e e e it being a little after 7 o'clock let's open the January 15 2025 zoning Kingston zoning board of appeals can I get a motion to open I make a motion open second I second it all in favor I very good first on the agenda do you have the reading for it I got it right here could here you have the public notice yeah this one the agenda uh is that the right way yeah that'll work yeah thank you go ahead take it a public hearing will be held at the Town Hall 26 of Green Street room 200 on Wednesday January 15 2025 at 7:10 p.m. applicant William Flor FL flammer 23 Smith Lane map 27 lot 48 seeks a variance per section 8.1.5 the zoning board of appeals did you say variance variance from the zoning board of appeals to construct an an adapted addition to the existing dwelling please note any handicap Rams installed are not subject to compliance with the local setback requirements by the language of mg L chapter 48 40a Section 3 can I get a motion to uh can I get a second second all in favor I I so one of you is GNA have to go to the mic over there or we can get you a mic bring a mic anyways um I didn't realize this was a variance [Music] that it's written as a variance so I guess I'll hold I'll pump the brakes a little bit here so we can hear we can hear some of it um make sure you have a mic when we talk um I know we have a new Building Commissioner and it was written up and I thought it was known as a as a special permit thought I read that somewhere too yeah if you look at if you look at Paul's written it says 23 Smith Lane addition special permit so it does say but we have the check up this problem is we have a checked off as a variance all right so we've hit a major hiccup um so the the one that's stamped yeah is the legal one okay right so we just so want to just change the reading no can't do that yeah um oh my crap let's let's hear it anyways yeah but he click yeah see that's the stample one yeah that's that's the correct one let's hear it anyways we might have to do continue dend to it or something yeah I don't know how we do it she Dave would you would have to re re or have Paul help you rewrite it so that figure out which one it is so a variance has a higher standard right a very higher standard the standard is you have to say I have a soil problem a topography problem or a shape problem you have to pick one of those three and say that's your reason that is your hardship for you doing what you're doing um that being the case special permit does not have that high bar standard it the standard is simply I have a non-conforming structure it was built as a non-conforming structure we're trying to add on to the non-conforming structure which was which my understanding right right but it was written wrong it was stamped the problem is not this one if this one said variance and that one said special permit the problem is that one has the the clerk stamp so that's the one that I I I was I wish it was a way that someone could say we just stamp it and call it a different day but I know legally it would be to my detriment so what do we need to do to fix it I think we hear it that way the public hears it whoever's on TV right now you tell us what's going on we send it back to him ASAP he then will have to deny this without prejudice because it's just written wrong so we just deny it without prejudice meaning it's backed out we just everybody just flush out and then it gets re that gets Rewritten that one gets Rewritten properly and we just try to get you on the next agenda ASAP if that's even needed because boy he seems to be covering all the basic if not installed subject to compliance ccil if that really needs to be done I can't call him though no no I mean building commission I I don't know if you would know the answer to that because this is not a um like a building thing just seems like a typle because this this one here seems to be the problem is this gets sent to the public and it's put in the paper yeah that's true and it has to sit different two weeks um actually I have it right here you can look at it I think he did yeah that's what he did but or someone did I don't want to I don't want to put it in the buy holds it up even longer right right um that's why I figured if we hear it can't we can't I don't know if we can condition it because it has to be re publicized to the public for at least two weeks in the correct order so Town open Town law says you have to post it right to the public for at least two weeks seen as it's intended to be seen and it was posted as a variance just so that I understand yes so one but a variance has a higher standard than much higher standard do we meet that standard I don't know you don't want to go down that path it's a path i' rather not go down have to the three prongs I gave you You' have to pick yourself one of those three three prongs and then prove it which you probably could I just it it's so much simpler to go the other direction um and if it takes a couple weeks it's worth it especially the way the weather is yeah you're not getting a foundation on the ground um ah this is a new one for me because I I wouldn't know if I could ask Town Council to say because he's not going to pick up um could be condition it with new paperwork but he's going to say no it's it's written incorrectly it needs to just get like I said deny without prejudice just keep put a clean slate reapply properly clean clean going forward a special use right in then yeah as a special permit but we can still hear your information that at least gets out forward that way when you come forward if anything any hiccup like the hiccups I kind of related earlier comes up they're not there it's flush so let's let you let you run it we already know we have a paperwork issue just a simple paperwork issue let's hear it and go from there so tell us what you want to do is your light on is a little green light on in front of you the green light's on yes so if everybody can hear me then that's great um so um speaking on behalf of Mr flber tonight um we are looking to do an addition onto the existing home uh to make the home primarily accessible um for David um William's son so David just recently has become a paraplegic right so Mobility is difficult um we are used to and accustomed to having a situation where we've got uh bedrooms upstairs and the main living area downstairs for which the main living area downstairs has been taken over um just in a space for sleeping Arrangements you know temporary bedroom if you will um as far as that's concerned so we're looking to do everything on this home to make make Dave independent um as far as the changing the entryways adding a lift into the home um making it so that we've all been on Smith Lane we all understand I think where it is if if we don't then it's a very busy road for which we've got a ramping system currently that goes directly almost into the road it does kind of overlap with a bit of the sidewalk there so especially as the inclement weather is coming on it's not a very safe situation nor is it a situation that we want to have you know Common Place place it's one of those things where as we were talking just um before the meeting that uh the parking spaces are all in the back of the home so it makes it a little inconvenient and um also in my mind anyways unsafe especially with the icy weather coming down so one of the first things is to change the entrance to the home um add a lift into the house so that um spaces are accessible and then we're changing multitude of things in the house um making room for gym equipment as Dave continues on his progression um having that gym equipment um downstairs and having a space for him to have mats and accessible things um as well as a TV space just for normal living we got four boys you know and that space has been taken over by bedrooms the dining room has been taken over by bedrooms so we're just adding on to that space um really simply the other things noted on there I don't even know if we need to speak of um I I don't really know this is my first go round so excuse me feel free to ask questions but we're changing the entrance to the bathroom ever so slightly and and making sure that the shower is accessible things of that nature um and in just increasing the the U mobility within the kitchen changing out certain things in there I don't even know if that's part of what the permitting process is or or whatnot but those are that's what we're doing I mean really it's to make it accessible and to make it user friendly part of that um as we started to touch upon the house um was a two family when it was purchased and um in order for the kidss and for use of the family took down the walls and it became used as you know that single family type living but we're looking to put back those walls since the kids are getting older and uh make it accessible for the tenant upstairs and put the stairway back in to make it accessible for the tenant upstairs is the is the uh second part of the two family is it in these drawings here somewhere say that again the two family part of it is it in these drawings here is it like a separate part of the house or is it the third floor second floor on you are my name is Sarah I'm Dave's Other Half I'm uh Bill's uh daughter-in-law I guess okay I didn't know if you were family or you were sure family design the plans okay so I get one bedroom on the first floor two two I see the other one all right they're back to back okay two bedrooms back to back and then the top one has and then two on the top yes just top right four so just make sure for betterment rules do you guys have it figured out that two are on here two on here three are on here one on here you can't have four on here and zero over here okay yeah because Theory I don't know if it's true you could sell that other bed if you're not using it but you have four bedrooms so you're going to have to finagle that number um for flow flow reasons say that again because it was two beds and two bedrooms right so was it two going to one B two going to the other bit all right just one because then you have the ability of one one more in each whatever where if you had three and one you know what I mean I'm not saying you want to build the house of the craziness but I'm just saying have the AR took a look at these drawings to A3 and A4 A4 says proposed first floor plan A3 says proposed first floor plan he should change that to second floor yeah I don't know so I guess the only thing I would I pull the board in general too with their questions is you have since we're going to have to redo this meeting anyways um four parking spots um yeah that could probably go on the uh yeah just put a on this front on the front page here I mean Landscaping plan you know you if the uh quiny landscaper you should have known the requirements for the city of Quin or the town of Kingston you know for space as such should be shown somewhere uh you know the architect or landscape architect should should know that and they should put that on all right they will I mean you can easily put it on the back um being that it's an 88 compliant house you're probably going to need a a one bigger one probably a van AIS one and then three but see that's what you're asking for so uh just make sure that that's put in the math right um because I know that's what 15t wide not n n and a half is a parking spot and I think it's 15 for for a van with with side opening and that will that one will have to be dedicated as a as a position where the other ones you can just put parking in general that'll have to have a dedicated position in there um then that that's that was I thinking it'd be helpful if in your deed it shows those betterment things and you just pop up a copy of it in there I yeah okay I'm just saying because I figured if you're going to be looking at your deed anyways it said it was a two family that it's on your registry of deeds deed not what was sold to you meaning like if someone Century 21 gave you a bunch of paperwork when you go into anything that has the you know the seal on it the seal stamp he just probably needs a copy of it put it in the file be on file the you would think so yeah right so your your betterment part would be yeah but that doesn't necessarily mean you're two family because someone who had a house probably prior to you might have tried to split it front to back and maybe you because you have two acres sitting in the back or an acre and a half in the back who knows why they did it but the point is we're covering our butt to make sure that it's correct it should be like I said it should be in your deed your simple paper but I don't recall it being in the deed like the deed doesn't it just so originally when the house is z you can look on vision and it will show you was is itated two family yeah as far as I mean like the town has it as a two family I know we paid two betters from but two betterments is not the same as a two family so two betterments just means you have two hups to sewer you could why would you have two a lot of people do it for different reasons to be honest I have a family member who has a little Shack in the back and he bought the second one just in case down the road he wanted to turn it into a have two use it you can use it but you have 2 point 2.5 acres so in theory you could say I'm using betterment one for the front of my house and better two could be in the future so why can't you say you're us to better one for the first floor and better two for the second well again we don't know if you have the proper permitting for a two family so a lot of people back in the day would just go H I need a I need some money for my house it's let's add a a bedroom in it and and start making it to family that doesn't make it illegal to family that just means that you decided to start selling a room on of your house well yeah I guess I'm confused I know the town that's fine we just proof it should be either in your DED meaning it's a two family or you can go to building department and say hey was I a two family prior to 1996 you know what I mean if you're prior to 1996 your grandfather in of the two family if it's not prior 1996 then whoever put in the two family just told you hey you got a five family here there's five bedrooms in here you can sell out the closet you can sell it here and whatever that's just because I say it doesn't mean it's true and like I said if it's in your deed awesome that's usually the easiest because you may have all your stuff there and it's quick and easy or you go to the building department and they might pull through it and go oh yeah this was a two family we've always had a two family and this is reasing my point is I'm just covering my butt so that by us giving it to you by accident your neighbor can then do it your neighbor to the right can then do it and then labor to down can do it why not if the house is big enough just shell off a wall add some more parking Z for it why couldn't they do it's not zone for it the street is no it's 3A District you're actually stricter rules than than the other ones yeah it's got one or two family zoning no 3A district is is a tighter District than than uh zoning one my point is if it if it's in in there it it is if it's not it's not okay I don't know again I I mean I we can't to be perfectly honest we're not supposed to dig and do research for you right right right we're just supposed to get whatever you feed us we try to say yes or no right um I'm just trying to give you the avenue to get it correct um cuz then if it's not and you go well what yes no it's supposed to be this way maybe you have to do a little bit of legal work and it's a quick cleanup but we should be able to find out tomorrow from the building Department yeah perfect call Paula in the morning I'm just trying to give you the Avenue yeah perfect sounds good I can't believe they have two and a half acres on Smith Lane I know well it's because the back there but wow um which you don't know if the person who had it before you was intending to use it as a retreat lot but then figured out that they couldn't be B it enough because I the ratio is what 1 to five or 1 to four because you have a huge piece of chunk of land in the back there right so I know do the town want to buy it careful don't get rid of land because they don't make any more of [Laughter] it um build a pickle ball court back yeah right I I don't know how wet I don't know how wet it is back there um so parking figure out why you have you know if you really do have two betterments which you say you are cuz you're paying which is quick and easy because it's you're going to have the the payments of it um you know ask if you are two family um if not figure out that out with Paul and figure that out where where to go from there um just sideline things it doesn't matter because of uh of whatchamacallit Ada and then I don't have really much left to say because it's pretty straightforward house uh Mr Miller just question I guess Building Commissioner too is like ada8 requirements for private homes is there any correlation between the two I know it's not a public building and if you make it ADA Compliant I mean I I I can't see why how it would interfere with a private home from the interior standpoint um I can't answer that question 100% honestly exterior wise uh if they're going to put in the handicap ramp or anything like that that is exemp from any kind of setbacks or anything like that but it has to be obviously built to code with the p you're right so I just I wouldn't think it would be but I just curious just a curious question doesn't apply to yeah I wouldn't think okay no that's all I have H that's it you know I'm an expert on yeah I had no that's said you know the driveway plan and and and the parking and you know look into it whether it is a true family or whatever sure and then just you know check into uh the paperwork yeah yeah dou I have nothing yeah like I said it's pretty straightforward you um little bit of you know paperwork you have to get done yeah um which should hopefully be fairly easy and there's no hiccups and then we're going to deny this without prejudice for the simple reason that the paperwork is wrong um that being said uh can we close the hearing oh wait hold on anyone on there is that person's hand out I don't think that's us oh okay I always forget about that so to whom do I submit paperwork moving from uh well when those three pieces come together do I so when so when you reapply so when you do yeah exactly so when you reapply again if you're already ahead of it and you have them in here you're already answering questions like Bing Bang Boom all right everything's here every other questions we answered so do we make same thing just with that new paperwor just make copies for everybody y just add it right in so it's like you're adding to yeah give it to her or give it to him and just cuz you're going to basically this is going to St this one's going to stay the same CET is going to stay the same the other one everything will stay the same we'll even I'll just make sure it doesn't say variants yes I'll ask the board um if we should uh we wave all your fees because obviously it seems like it's on our end of the world simple Miss where's the one I have this one yeah so this is the one that we're going to have to make sure this everything is in the right order so that's going to have to get mailed out again and we have to do the whole thing probably because of the wording yeah but she probably can get out the door with so again the paperwork that you that have to put in there that doesn't have to be in there tomorrow right just these two pieces basically what you have with this re refixed only has to be in there and get out the door ASAP okay um you can add the other paperwork as you get it before the meeting you can even bring it to the meeting and have it ready but it'll be another month before we get to meeting uh no if if it gets in there by tomorrow or the next day can do it for the 14 days right 14 days all you need is 14 days so that's all you would really need our next meeting is when the 12th no 25 first Wednesday of the month oh sorry 25 yeah all right yep I have it down yeah we have something scheduled for that and then then after that would be the 19th yeah so 25 we just try to get in there ASAP I'm going to miss that I just let you go hit hit FYI Lane should be in or you can always zoom in from Florida no wear my speed over you we don't have to see what you want yeah yeah you can call in you can zoom in for this one real quick yeah you can do a zoom or a call um that being said um move to close the hearing or continue no okay close you're right can I get a second second all in favor I can I get a motion to deny without prejudice because of a motion to deny the permit without prejudice through the word through the paper can I get a second second all in favor I I I so you guys have a little bit of homework all right um just because those those are the harder questions because those are just the harder questions sure well and then other than that it's paperwork and all those other little pieces are there just submit it to him or her and the questions that and just make sure that your architect or whoever your uh engineer just puts the park spots on there cuz that's what you're H to yeah that's it yeah we do it tomorrow a lot of it's just paperwork I'll be back on the 19th so I don't know if that affects anybody if nobody else everyone for The Bard can be there for the fifth I should be in the fifth we're just going to need to bring L Lan if we get if we get to the point seriously that you have a problem try to text me and try to give me the day before if you know it's going to be shot I will I will call in you don't have to zoom you can call I know I know thank you all right thank you all right thank you I like to see them get this taken care of yeah yeah I appreciate it thank you is that the house now with the aluminum ramp okay so yeah you guys did a great job with that porch yeah looks good uh minutes like dang minutes I'll beep tomorrow going by the on by the way the train station have my coffee about I should be there about uh 10 minutes of five thank you thank there we got a bunch here I can't remember that back that long ago oh 113 W Road where's that 77 what this fix that with typ bow yeah do we have extra copy of that you sure W I say we're long fine we can um I didn't get one all right no problem yours right yeah he need to look at it hold on is there is there another I'll give you mine as I go no I don't I have a two double set as long as you guys agree I don't need it you a double set I think I have a double set of stuff she has a extra set thanks I I I'm not ready got ITF your all right you found it I must have lame stuff all thanks sorry I asked than y double sided this building's no more 78 78 94 918 Okay order oh this indan Pond Country Club that was a j these are pretty defined motion to approve the 7724 minutes I second it all in favor I I need two more eyes we finish I'm still trying to figure out who was present at the meeting well that's what I'm looking at now I don't know who is here I question why Indian PR did not apply for the permit so I must have been there well I know I did cuz I was the one who denied it the uh make the motion to deny it yes I I approve that that you were there Bob Mullen makes a motion to close the hearing second by Mara I got two I saw my name in there I think everyone was there yeah I just think on the notes we should probably put down who was present you know yeah that one there there okay you were there for pre- all those yeah we were all there for this one that was the junkyard yeah I missed one but that was like the September I think yeah so going forward on the minutes let put on the the you know maybe maybe a either first line down to say uh you know members present okay members absent and then you should have the only thing I unless it was there the B 4 Z all right that was correct never mind station um and if if any of the building Commissioners are present uh please put them their name and their position there at the top too so if they're present that way because you say you say Jason Silva's name everywhere but if you were flying through it you wouldn't know who he was like I was here I think I spoke maybe you were quiet that night I'm still just trying to get a grasp of these new minutes to me we jumping from Smith Lane to whopping road to and I'm on the 7724 yeah once again like I said I never got uh an email with these usually I can decipher them from whopping road which is pillo yes so we went Smith land first PR P second and then we went to conclusion motion to continue okay I see my name there and then Maintenance building and parking issues that should have uh that should have a new name there yeah so in 717 when it says Maintenance building and parking issues you should you should do it like you did um the public hearing okay you know say public hearing for whatever the address is uh yeah maybe gave it a a a good a solid indent separating each one yeah and also mention that myself and Lane exited we had no part of kushman uh not kushman Indian Pond at all yeah yeah yeah you do have to add that so right after that started right there line directly after that um you'd have to be that Doug and Lane recuse themselves Y and if you really want to be proper if they left say they left the building or you could say they went to the public the public side 717 no so I have a motion to approve it and I have a a second and I already have two eyes um I can you say approve it with amendments approve with amendments yeah yeah that's fine approve with amendments so we got an I do I have a fourth ey I I I approve all right so we got four eyes so we got one down approve with amendments 87 strike on 87 right at the top it says age restricted residential development it's not age restricted it's not age restricted to build a residential development see that that first paragraph and then we'll add in Who present at the board and who's not present including if there's if uh Town Council or if there's um building inspector for is there a motion to approve 8724 uh I just want to make sure in my notes because once again it changes it's all about where say conditions fiz and conditions voting process and then we change over to what she needs to make the break and she wrot in the riverv viiew make core right that's what I want to make sure there's so that's where that's the going to be the new way going for we're going to put a solid break and and put in so you can see approved with amendments yes approve with amendments right motion to approve with amendments going to get a second second all in favor that 21 seems like a tough one all right so we need a person a name for the second participants at the top both who was there and who was not date seems good SE seems good fici Jour [Music] 705 and whopping is whopping WB a yes uh make a motion to approve minutes as amended second all in favor I I I9 oh so hold on to 94 oh is 94 the your new way of doing it so 918 so 94 is bypassed yeah it's not on the agenda Lane is a he under the have we ever gotten a myar from from them y we got that we did that same night we found out that kushman Farms has storage oh a remarkable night is remarkable night zoning board uh motion to approve the minutes for 918 24 can I get a second I second it all in favor with amendments yes Tom after yeah [Music] if I can just get the plans back so that they don't have to make another set yes I have a [Music] buch yeah they need to be one massive set can I [Music] just so the next Mee and I was going to make dinner for you guys so if you don't nobody has an allergy right or anything I won't be here so okay one less it's like put it in a that one in a temperware for later po new Jour second all in favor hi hi thank you