Good evening, ladies and gentlemen. Welcome to our township meeting October 9th, 2025, 6 pm. Adequate noting uh notice of this meeting has been given in accordance with the open public meetings act pursuant to public laws 1975. Said notice was advertised in the Aspbury
Park Press in a beacon and was posted on the on the bulletin at the board showing the time and place of the meeting. I'm going to read a short statement as we conclude our flag salute. We pause for a moment in silence and reflection
to honor the life and legacy of Jerry J. Dasty, a respected attorney, public servant, and steadfast advocate for Ocean County. For decades, Jerry's leadership, integrity, and deep commitment to the communities he served set a standard of
professionalism and public dedication that touched every corner of this county. His work strengthened our municipalities, guided countless local officials, and left an enduring impact that will long be remembered. May we
take this moment to reflect on his service and the difference one person can make through a lifetime of commitment to others. We'll have the pledge of allegiance and have that moment of silence. I allegiance to the flag of the United
States of America and to the republic for which it stands. One nation under God, indivisible, with liberty and justice for all. Thank you everyone. Item number one, proposed ordinance for
rally gathering permits. Okay. Um I asked the chief to be present here as well. We have um and we found out via social media that um there will be an uh another no kings rally here on Saturday, October over October 18th. While I understand that uh people, you
know, have the right to demonstrate to protest to to gather. But what I'm asking for is a suggestion that we create an ordinance whereas these these individuals have to notify the town via an application process a certain number of weeks in advance. So, at least we
find, you know, know who the point of contact is, what they're anticipating to do, where they're going to be located, because we also had the evening of prayer in the park, which again, a resident just rented the park. We had no idea. We thought she was having like a whatever a normal party, and here it was a day of gathering. And it does put an
impact on the police department and public works to have to um gather men on overtime and without notice, we don't we sometimes can't do the scheduling. So, I'm not I'm not sitting here looking to um ban the idea. Uh put in like, you know, I would love to be able to say they have to post an insurance policy
because after the last No Kings rally, we had a tremendous amount of trash to clean up all over our property here, which shouldn't be something that happens. And then on top of it, it was about $6,000 in overtime that we spent. While I know that it's very limited as to what we can do based on the First Amendment speech and the
and the right to protest and gather, I just think there should be some type of application process so that we know who the point of contact is so we can make proper arrangements in advance. I did discuss this earlier in the week with Senator Connor. I'll let him have um a bite at the apple for a moment, but
certainly I value the input of our chief o and all the time. So, if you would, Senator. Well, obviously it involves a balancing of interests. And every time that you get involved with a regulation or government enforcement of what might be considered a constitutional right,
such as the first amendment, the courts will apply what they call a strict scrutiny evaluation of determine whether government action is um exceeds uh the rights of the the individual. Um and as such it has to be a compelling
government interest and it has to be narrowly tailored in order to meet that uh government interest. Essentially it's the the least restrictive means to achieve what that governmental interest is. I had an opportunity to look in part
with regard to a proposed ordinance that was in West Caldwell, which I think is under deliberation, but may uh still be held it for further review, that has some of the things that um have been mentioned by the administrator with
regard to protecting the municipality from essentially costs that might be incurred um or at least protecting um other individuals. um we would need a little more time to review that specific ordinance. It would
seem to me that uh the municipality uh might be able to consider um an application process for the use of its facilities. That is the municipal building, community hall, uh any of the
parks, uh playgrounds, um lake areas, anything that would be considered a municipal facility where the municipality would require that in advance a application is made for the use of that facility, a permit fee would
be uh required. So that uh and it would have to be the permit would have to be based on the reasonable cost associated with um processing that application. Um and to determine whether um there are adequate um
amenities that are available um in making sure that the litter is picked up uh making sure that the area is secure and so forth. when you begin to stray into what I would consider possibly troubled waters by attempting to
regulate would be those areas that not would not be considered municipal facilities. That would be sidewalks. Uh certain other open areas that um that I wouldn't consider necessarily um municipal
facilities. For instance, the last rally, which I believe took place, and I'm not fully cognizant of all the facts involved in it, was in the area, the parking area and sidewalks. Um, the courts will look at that differently,
um, and to the extent that, um, you really can't require a permit, you can't require insurance, you can't require the coverage of police protection or any of that. and um otherwise it would more than likely violate first amendment
rights. Um so we have to define the areas in which we want to look at you know requiring fees just as any organization now has to you that wants to use facilities as I'm understanding would have to go through that process to a you know to a certain degree. The
other reason that people that might gather on an ad hoc basis, it may even not be determined with any real um consideration of time. It might be something that sporadically has happened where people might gather for a
particular reason that something might have occurred within the last day or two that they want to gather or assemble for the purposes of expressing um their their voice. And there may not be any particular point person or organization involved. It's just a gathering of
people um spontaneously at a particular location or happen to stumble into a matter that they they take an interest. So there are a lot of operational issues involved but more importantly uh we have
to make sure that they'll meet the muster of the constitutional test that would be required of the municipality in affectuating such a a regulation. Thank you. Chief, do you have anything to add? I mean come on up here. I mean, you have to get
a permit to hold a garage sale at your house, but you don't have to get a permit for that. That's that's the stuff I don't get. Myself, Chief Christopher Kenny, Lacy Township Police. So, Mr. Connors, yeah, I would never go against, you know, your your your advice and you know that. Um, and completely agree with, you know, the
First Amendment and the right to assemble. Um, our our only concern is the the no kings protest that was coming up is they're very good. We have a we do have a point of contact. um that that works with us. The entire organization
is very very wellrun. They have uh you know they give us an att you know an estimated attendance and and you know where they're going to be what they're looking to do. Um so it's not just for the no kings it's always for the other ones that could potentially come. So what we're looking for is through
whether it's a permit or we can call it something else points of contact. So our our current one, I won't, you know, mention his name, but our current one, what if what if he falls ill or can't make it that day? Can we get the backup people? And and the reason for it, it's
not and I can I can say we didn't have any problems with the the attendees there. The counter ones were more more of an issue. Um, but that being said, we want people who who plan ahead. they called, you know, they they know when this is
going to be, so it wasn't just an organic, you know, hey, spur the moment there was an incident and something happened. They're planning this and we want it to be a good, you know, um, you know, environment, safe environment. You know, it's on a roadway out there and there's a lot of issues we have and
anytime we said, hey, they were encroaching too much, helped us out. Um, but the more information, the more we can work with them, the better off we are. And that's to protect them. So there's no um you know agitators that come in and pretend to be part of the group and
they can identify and help us like remove them from the area. But it it was it was a good event. Uh you know gets us nervous anytime because it's right there on the road and uh our whole idea behind it. It does cost us money but we also
absolutely we have a small department right and we have to plan ahead. So, anytime we can have that communication, those points of contact, uh the, you know, information about arrival times, who's going to be there, uh, anything such as where the bathroom is going to be, you
know, they they blocked off the intersection to our headquarters, which is fine, but then they encroach on the Waw Wa. It, you know, it all depends on the amount of, you know, people coming in that we can anticipate. not to prevent, it's just to so we know what's going on, how to plan, how many officers
to call in first, you name it. So that's that's my piece on that. Totally agree with the chief. I my just what Veronica said though, I have to be honest. We charge people for a permit to have a yard sale, but we are allowing gatherings of people out on a four-way
highway basically out there that we then have, you know, a lot of uh worries some things that could happen. So, we we should have definitely information, you know, well, we information is one thing, but
there again, let me give you, you know, hypothetical. First of all, you want to regulate the organic or organized individuals that you know can anticipate that they're going to have such a a rally or whatever you want to call it.
Um, and there there may be those that don't. Okay? And so we regulate the ones that want to comply um to the expense of those that don't. You know what I'm saying? So, you charge a fee, a permit fee, and you request all kinds of information for those that are
organized, but those that aren't would have the First Amendment right to park their tail ends across the street and demonstrate. One has a permit, one provided information, one didn't. and they both would be able to
do the same thing without any restriction as long as they're not blocking the sidewalks, as long as they're not affecting traffic or anything else. And so that becomes problematic in its administration. If there is a way to compose such a
thing, we will certainly try to find that because we understand that the police department has done a commendable job. Not only in trying to anticipate um issues that might cause public safety concerns, but by every account that I heard, the
last um event was peaceful, wellorganized, and people cooperated fully with with the police. And so that's a tribute to you, chief, and what you do as well. And I remember even the uh people that put that together sent a letter to the
town commending uh how the town handled it, our police department, and thanked us for letting them have it here and how trouble-free it was, I guess, is the best way to put it. So, and we had a point of contact with that one. And you guys may had spoken to them
in advance. This one that's been posted on social media. We have no point of contact. Yeah. Well, we should at least have a point of contact. And it was a local person the last time and again he was very open forthcoming for with us and it worked out well. So looking ahead we we we reached out to
the police department for a minute. So we do have a point of contact but didn't reach out to the township just we we reached out. Well, it's to obviously it's it's to the people's advantage as well because in this manner we can
assure them that they're going to be safe uh and that their needs are going to be taken care of so that they can have their voice expressed. Um but we just have to make sure that it's not restrictive um and then violates that first amendment.
Absolutely. Great. So we'll do some further research and we'll figure all this out. Great. Thank you, chief. Thank you. And thank you, Mr. Connors. Thank you, sir. Thank you. Item number two, code book chapter 288, smoking discussion.
Right. So, we had um there there's been a we have in the past um put up uh definitions related to where uh you can smoke on municipal facilities. The only thing we never included in that were parks and beaches because at the time the council that was here didn't want to
include parks and beaches. However, they did tell us to post the signs throughout the parks and beaches, which we have. So, now we have um some summones that were written and they're not enforceable because the parks and beaches aren't in the code book. So, while I need to update chapter 282 the code to to um
reflect uh some of the changes in our offices and of course to include the new community center that there's no smoking on that property. Here's the opportunity. Do we want to add our parks and beaches? And I know it comes down to an enforcement issue a lot of times. you know, you keep adding all of these codes in the code book, but where do you have
the people to enforce all of this? We're not going to have a cop walking around the park saying, "You're smoking. Here's a summon or whatever." You know, obviously, it's going to be on a complaint basis. So, I just here's the opportunity to now decide what you guys want to do and do we want to make it, you know, illegal to smoke in the parks and beaches and to enforce the signs
that we have up already. Well, I'll jump in. Um, I mean, all of us will get a bite at, like I said, at the apple, but I'll jump in. you know, our parks, the reason people move here, uh you'll hear a lot, um people in the audience, people up here are families with deep roots, uh is for the parks.
And a lot of those people that are going there are children. Uh so I would be for a ban on smoking in the parks and that would be um cigarettes. You know, hopefully nobody would smoke marijuana in front of a child. Well, that's what some of the things are starting to happen.
They can do well, you can smoke marijuana anywhere you can smoke a cigarette. Yes, that is what's happening now. And I don't know if the New Jersey Smokefree Act comes into play with this that it arbitrarily covers those municipally owned facilities, but I it's an opportunity. But again, wherever you
walk, you could smell it now. I mean, sometimes on Tuesday and court day, go in the elevator. Yeah. As people are coming in, smokefree signs years ago, I was putting them up with DPW at Gilly, but again, at the time, we nobody on the council wanted to add those properties
to the ordinance. and we put the signs up anyways. So, we have no enforcement right. And we have a few summones that were issued because some of our officers were under the assumption since the signs were up that it was legal to enforce it. My opinion is it should be um enforceable. I'm I'm against it. If I
get outvoted, so be it. But it's a public safety. It's a public health issue. Yeah. So, we need to, like I said, we need to change the ordinances to recognize some of the changes in our offices like community development office. I need to highlight that. And of course, since this ordinance was put into place, we bought the old Knights of Columbus building, which is the Charles
A. Smith Community Center. So, here's your opportunity to add your locations of parks and beaches. Let's go down. What's your pleasure, Deputy Mayor? Um, I I agree with you, mayor, that probably should be um banned in the parks, but I also understand the
enforcement is likely not going to be there. So, banan, but I don't see the enforcement happening on both parks and beaches. Are you in agreement with Stephen? I'm agree with Pet. Okay. I'm on board with Stephen uh with both of you too to be honest with you.
Thank you. Committee room committeeman Loray. I hate to do this cuz but I disagree. See that does happen. I agree in the fact that it is a public health safety thing.
But I think when it gets into your open parks and your beaches, a lot of times people, a lot of people do respect them. They see the signs. You're going to have those that don't, just like the ones that might use our elevators and stuff
like that. I see the rest restrictions in the buildings on the say the connecting sidewalk, stuff like that. But when you get into open spaces, they as Senator Connor said, you know, when you get into rights,
you know, we can't take all rights away from people. And the the Constitution of the United States has not quoted yet that people do not have the right to smoke. I don't smoke. I never been a smoker. But I do think those that want
to smoke should be able to do it in an open space. I may not like it. I may not want to smell it, but at the same token, I do not believe we can take all the rights away from people. I do believe in like the buildings around the buildings.
I mean, it's like most of your public buildings which have no smoking, they have designated smoking areas. And I I just I agree in the health aspect of it, but I I do believe that's government is
reaching a little too far when they start restricting people from smoking in open spaces around our children in the parks. We go with what the state health department says and the CDC. I'm going to say the same thing you just said. That's my opinion. I might get
outvoted. Very good. And you're not going to change it. All good. I don't know like like I said where this New Jersey Smokef Free Air Act comes into play like if it already like supersedes it all. I that's something for I guess our legal team to research.
Um we have three people on sitting up here that that believe we should possibly consider changing the ordinance. So I think it's something with it that obviously well we have to make a decision because we have this on here and we've been writing summones and now we we have to dispose of the
summones because it's not legal in accordance with the ordinance. So we're going to be challenged. While it's not leg, you know, you can't smoke here. So a summons written here would be fine, but go to Gilly Par. If you write the summons, it's not fine. Because at the time when we put this in place in 2018ish, everybody was like,
we'll just post the signs. And I remember that that the state was or was willing to come and post the signs, but it's not it's not legal, right? It serves no purpose to actually have the signs. And this would include electronic cigarettes, cannabis, and regular tobacco cigarettes and pipes as well and cigars.
And I do understand the sign issue cuz there's been other issues that's come up with that, too. I mean, it's even like no parking in front of the docks in certain areas of town because, you know, you might get towed away, but it's not an enforceable issue. Um,
I had a question earlier this year, you know, with bic with electric bikes and stuff like that. The the laws, the research and everything else getting into this, it opens up cans of worms a lot of times, even if something and it does put a little bit of a burden on especially the younger policemen that
don't know that where things are enforceable. If there's ordinances, I can understand that part. It makes it difficult. But a sign sometimes does serve as a good deterrent even if it's not enforcable. There's
nothing wrong with a sign as a deterrent. Doesn't mean it's enforcable, but it's a deterrent. And a lot of people, you got the people that will respect it and you got the ones that won't respect it, but it's just a deterrent.
Right. So, do we want to have Mr. Connor's research it against the smokefree air act and then come up with a draft ordinance for consideration. That would be great. Motion. Do we need a motion for that or is he just We should do a motion. I make a motion that we have Senator
Con. Do we have a second? Second. All in favor? I. You can vote no. You could you could reserve your vote. No. I well when there's an actual proposal that was my that was my question. I I
have no problem with us researching it. Yeah. But I don't know I think your your comments on the record are or such that you're not taken as a I'm going to vote for it. Gotcha. Very good. Item number three, best practices checklist.
Okay. Every year the township um is required to participate in the best practices checklist. Um it's completed by the CFO, the clerk, and the administrator of the township. Um and this year, as well as all the past years, um we scored well within the threshold, but we are required to present to the governing body. You all
received a copy of it. Anyone have any comments? No. Motion to accept. Yep. Motion to accept. Move. Second. All in favor? I Let me Okay. I have one add-on.
We do have a request um from a resident to store a modular home overnight. Um this home will be moved to um block 1854, lots 47 and 48. So that is um on the corner of Calvin Street and Gary Smith Way. Um they are looking to store
the home overnight. Uh it'll be delivered October 22nd and the home will be moved on October 23rd. They're looking to store it at the very end of Newark AB North just past um that little empty culde-sac past Heritage Village at Seabbze. Anybody see a problem with it?
No. I checked with um Casey Parker and he said that that would be an ideal location because it is a dead end street down there and it's close to the vicinity of it and with usually we allow them to store in Gilly Park, but it's quite the distance in the turnaround. This is more straightforward. If you go over there, you could see that the basement and the walls are already up
for for the foundation. We spoke with the proposed developer and it's a very, you know, he'll supply us with certificate of insurance just in case there's any vandalism or damage and he'll conone off the area. Um, we would um we'll we'll also make sure that we send out an email to Seabbze because they are very observant as to changes in
in around their area so that they're aware of what's going on. The police are also aware and they saw no issues with the due diligence has been done. Could I have a motion, please? I make a motion. Oh, I'm sorry. Did you Did you want to speak, Mr. Laur? No, I just wanted they they do know this that
with this they it's a one day thing. Yes. Yeah. Yes. And and the date is subject to change depending on delivery and weather and sometimes it does turn into a two-day thing, but it's usually a very short period of time. Very very short period of time.
I made I made a motion. Have a second. All in favor? I. That is all I have. Motion to adjurnn. Second. All in favor? I. Township of Lacy Township meeting October 9th, 2025. Adequate notice of this meeting has been given in
accordance with the open public meetings act pursu of public laws in 1975. Said notice was advertised in the Asbury Park Press and the Beacon and was posted on the bulletin board showing the time and place of the meeting. We had our salute in our moment of silence. We'll jump right into the township meeting.
Item number one, second reading of ordinance number 2025-016 providing for dredging and engineering services. Bond ordinance providing for dredging and engineering surveying services appropriating $615,110.
Therefore, in authorizing the issuance of $584,110 bonds and notes to finance a portion of the cost there thereof authorized in and by the township of Lacy in the county of Ocean State of New Jersey. This is second reading. Open the floor to public comment. Seeing none, motion to close the floor.
Move it. Second. All in favor? I. Motion on the ordinance. Move it. Second. Mrs. Juliano. Yes. Mr. Kennes. Yes. Mr. Laray. Yes. Mary Ker. Yes. Item number two, resolution 2025-277
awarding a contract for the Federal Emergency Management Agency Fire Management Assistance Grant Support Services. Resolution of the township of Lacy County of Ocean State of New Jersey awarding a contract with Whit O'Brien's LLC for FEMA fire management assistance grant support services. This company
will help us applying for reimbursement um everything related to the Jones fire and this cost is reimburseable. Move it. Second. Mrs. Juliana, yes. Mr. Lang, yes. Mr. Kenn, yes. Mayor Kerata, yes. Item number three, resolution 2025-278 authorizing the tax collector to cancel
taxes due due to a disabled veteran tax exemption. Resolution of the township of Lacy County of Ocean State of New Jersey authorizing the tax collector to cancel 2025 taxes due on a property granted the 100% disabled veteran exemption and refund the resulting credit balance. Move it.
Second. Mr. Kenn, yes. Mr. Yes. Juliano, yes. Mayor Cara, yes. Item number four, resolution 2025-279 authorizing the placement of a lean on block 1620 lot one. Resolution of the township Lacy County
of Ocean State of New Jersey accepting the certification of the director of public works concerning costs incurred in the removal of debris and the cleaning up of the property located at block 1620 lot one and authorizing the placement of a lean against said property for said costs. Move it. Second. Mrs. Juliano, yes. Mr. Penn, yes.
Mr. Lay, yes. Mayor Kerto, yes. Item number five, resolution 2025-280 authorizing the refund of deposit monies. Resolution of the township of Lacy County of Ocean State of New Jersey authorizing the refund of deposits held for the use of municipal facilities. Move it.
Move it. Second, Mr. Laay. Yes. Mr. Kenn, yes. Mrs. Juliana, yes. Mayor Kera, yes. Item number six, resolution 2025-281, authorizing the payment of township bills. Resolution of the township of Blazy County of Ocean State, New Jersey, authorizing the payment of township
bills. This is in the amount of $6,894,219.25. Second. Mrs. Juliano. Yes. Mr. Kennes. Yes. Mr. Laray. Yes. Mary. Yes. With noted abstension number 58.90. Item number seven, monthly reports.
Municipal clerk's office for the month of September collected receipts in the amount of 404,43043. For the month of September. uh the treasurer's report from public works. Um road opening permits in the amount of $2,910, recycling commodity in the
amount of $1,15, tire deposits in the amount of $210, and truck parking in the amount of $325. Community development for the month of September, collected receipts in the amount of $11,186. Motion to accept the reports is read. Move it.
Second. All in favor? I I number eight motiv motion to approve executive session meeting minutes from September 24th, 2025. Move it. All in favor? I I second it. I second.
Okay. Item number nine, motion to approve caucus meeting minutes from September 25th, 2025. Move it. Second. All in favor? I. It number 10, motion to approve township meeting minutes from September 25th, 2025. Move it. Second. All in favor?
I are different. Yeah, we have an executive session. All right, that's right. Item number 11, motion to approve exe. We already did that. No, it was two days we two days, right? Motion to approve executive session meeting minutes minister from September
25th, 2025. Move it. Second. All in favor? I. Then number 12. Motion to approve membership in the Fork River Volunteer Fire Company for Scott Murray Jr. Move it. Second. All in favor? I comments.
Excuse me, I have an add-on. Add on. Sorry. Add on. Resolution 2025-283 resolution of the township of Lacy County of Ocean State of New Jersey authorizing the execution of a memorandum of understanding with the state of New Jersey for dredging and material placement. This is directly related to the dredging that we are
doing the bond ordinance for at Bayside Beach. Move it. Second, Mrs. Juliana. Yes. Mr. Ray, yes. Mr. Kenn, yes. Mayor G. Yes. Thank you. Comments from the committee, Deputy Mayor Kennes. Thank you, Mayor. I would um I would
like to comment today by remembering one of Lacy's longtime residents, attorney Jerry Dasty, who passed away suddenly a few days ago. Jerry has been practicing law here since the 1970s and his firm is well known in town and Ocean County and continues to be a vital part of our economy. Jerry has been a good citizen
of Lacy, raised his family here and supported many of our local clubs and organizations. Those of us who knew him, including many outside of Lacy, will miss his knowledge, expertise, and sincere friendship. My deepest sympathy goes out to his wife, Liz, and their family.
Those are my comments. Thank you very much, Committeewoman Juliano. I'm just going to ditto what Mr. Kenneth said. Thank you. Thank you, Committee. Steve said it best. I mean, we we all,
you know, he was a friend, he's a colleague, and uh he's going to be he's going to be missed. Uh, the only other thing I did want to mention tonight, and this is an FYI, um, we know that there is a bond
referendum coming up in November. I'm only mentioning that the there isformational S uh, sessions being put on. I had the opportunity attending one a week ago.
Um, I thought things were uh poorly attended before, but this was even worse. Um, but to the public, because these issues are big issues, there's actually more signs up in town, whether it's for or against
this referendum, than there was people at this meeting. The reason I mention this is because I did go and no matter which way I'm leaning, there was a lot of information given, a lot of
uh details and and uh information on different aspects of this referendum. And I always say before you go to the booth and and pull that lever, you should listen and learn and get yourself educated so you make the best decision for yourself.
And there's more sessions being done because there's one thing and I you'll hear me say this all the time. I'm not a social media person. I deal on facts and I try to when I do hear something try to get the other side before I
before I even react on it. Too many people react on hearsay or halftruths or inaccurate uh information. I got a belief with social media that half of it's a correct
and half of that correct stuff is accurate. So basically 25% of what's on social media we can depend on. That's just my opinion. But with that said, I just wanted to mention these states just in case
anybody out of the 29,000 people in this town want to get themselves educated on some of the information. Whether you agree with it or not, there just was a lot of information put out. And why I'm mentioning this is because
there's been some questions asked of certain items and I was surprised even being in the know that I learned things that I didn't know.
But the next sessions are October 15th at the Fork River Elementary School at 7 PM, October 17th at the Seabbze uh Community Center
and October 30th at the Lacy. Come on, phone at the high school. at 7 o'clock. So, it's the 15th, the 17th, and the 30th.
You know, if you want to learn a little bit about it, whether you're pro or con for, like I say, there's nothing better than going to the polls and knowing what you're pulling the lever or pushing the button for instead of going in there and doing what
somebody else told you to do. an educated voter is the best voter for our community. Thank you. Thank you. Uh I too want to just take the opportunity um to reserve other comments other than to uh eulogize Mr.
Dasty. We always um you know really blessed to have Senator Connor here who's our attorney and also a former mayor. Uh so the municipal experience is deep. Um but as I understand it, Mr. Dasty was in many different uh
municipalities and uh as Mr. Kenneth said um who who knew him really well. Um you know he's he's imparted his wisdom and and and helped people in many many different municipalities. So he's going to be sorely missed. Um so my my
condolences go out to his family. Um and that's a it's a lot of knowledge that has has left us. So hopefully things are as good as can be expected over there. So with that, I will open the floor up
for public comment this evening. Yes, sir. Hi, Tony Rosolei. Um, you know, this question about smoking when they first when it first came out and people, you know, they they they had a law and said
you can't smoke in public. I was an HR guy and a company what the company did was thought about its employees and the way we adjusted things was like you said designated areas. Now we have employees
that work for us public works. Okay. Public area. All right. That we control schools, teachers, janitors, it's all public property. So when you talk about
banning smoking completely in public areas, you're not only affecting the public, you're affecting the people that work for us even in this building. We have employees that smoke in this
building. And if they do, no, we don't. Okay. Very fortunate. Okay. If we ever did hire someone, all right, that has a habit or develops a habit, do we have to make consideration for that employees
rights? We have designated areas in our public buildings based on that ordinance. There's a designated area in each one of the the properties that are listed in the ordinance. Okay, that was my question. We have designated area. Why can't we make
designated areas in the parks? Why can't we follow through with the same thing in the public areas and have a designated area? You're worried about enforcement. I understand that. But I also worry about public rights and what your rights are under the First
Amendment. But if a police officer comes and says there's a sign, you're not supposed to be smoking in this area. At least there's a form of enforcement. And if you don't go to the designated area now, he gets the
summits. Okay. But it's a way to deter, but it's also a way to provide. And it's just more exploratory information maybe has to come forward to be more specific. You have teachers. I
don't know if they smoke or not. Some may. Some of the janitors may. Some of again the public works guys. It's not unusual for a bluecollar guy to light up a cigarette, you know, and and if he has that habit and he has to walk off the
property, some of the property is pretty big. By the time he gets off, smokes and comes back, you're losing productivity, right? Correct. So you may want to think more into
not being so restrictive but also being restrictive where you can enforce and that's just like I said from when it first came in and with an HR from an HR point of view I don't want to lose the productivity I don't want to take away the rights but I don't want the exposure
either. Okay so something else to think about. Thank you. Thank you. Other comments this evening? Yes, ma'am. Miss Regina. [Music] [Music]
Is this close enough though? Regina Desa, Sunset Drive, Sunrise Beach. I was very shocked to hear about Jerry Dasty. I had some fun conversations with him over the years and he will definitely be missed. Um, I have questions and
comments. Um, the dredging airboat noise is absolutely incredible. And I called the Coast Guard and they told me there were no noise regulations for the bay. Is that true? None. It's a state of New Jersey project. They're exempt from being under a local
noise ordinance. Wow. Yes, it is very loud. They have been It sounds like it's in my backyard almost. Yeah. They have to work with the tide flow. So again, that's why you're hearing it pretty much 24/7 sometimes because they have to work with the tide flow to rebuild those dikes and dams that they're doing over at the for
they're really close to shore is what you're saying and that's why I'm hearing it so much. I just think it's the way it sounds off the water as you know. I I mean you know Mr. Lorraine lives in the vicinity of you too. He hears it from his house and they are trying to do a massive $9 million dredging project that affects
all of our channels in Lacy and this is some of the inconvenience. can't get any sleep because they're out there at the crack of dawn pretty much. Yeah, cuz they they're working with the tides and everything. So, it's explain the strange hours. I know. I know. Recently it's calmed
down a little bit cuz at first probably about a month ago I actually thought I'm going wow somebody's you know cuz you got your go fast boats. I'm like, "Wow, somebody's taking their boat to work every morning." Because that's just it was
like clockwork 5:00 in the morning and you I went down to the bottom and being a boater all my life, you know, I'm familiar with these noises and I'm like, "Wow." Cuz sometimes people do have the opportunity to take in their boats to work. And I was like, then I learned it's the airboats, but we don't have no control over that either.
All right. Well, as I mentioned at the last meeting, tax shock is here. This is the bill you don't want to forget to pay. You don't want interest in penalties on your largest quarterly tax payment ever.
Um, okay. I want to share a funny funny social media comment. Some lady wrote on social media and she wanted to know if the vote yes people signs would write her a guarantee that her taxes won't go up. I was hysterical.
Did you see that? Oh my god. I did not, but it's pretty funny. I think 28,000 people would want that guarantee. So, um, once again, my signs have been vandalized and stolen. All have been replaced and reported to the police. I hate to take them off the street to do
that, but it is private property as we discussed previously. Now, the most unlikely place for the signs to be stolen, I expected them to be trampled on near the high school, but two were stolen from the Seabbze entrance and exit area. not right onto
their property. I made sure I put it off their property, but I'm pretty sure everybody in that community is over 55, but they're messing with signs. So, um, Amy, we had a little discussion on email about code enforcement because
the paid for by proud residents investing in our future signs is not a proper disclaimer and that has been reported to the New Jersey Election Law Enforcement Commission. They've been notified of the mystery PAC political action committee. They will not come
from Trenton to remove them. And there is an ordinance in this town that prohibits illegal signs from popping up on every street corner like power washing and we buy homes and those kind of signs you see here and there. It's it's the same
exact thing. So, political action committees making formal signs at election time must properly identify themselves and register with NJ elect. Neither one of these groups are registered. Both have been reported, but like I said, no one's going to take down
the signs. And um I personally notify the um the parents for Lacy Schools how to do a proper disclaimer and register, but last time I checked, they still weren't registered. Um,
so yesterday and the day before these giant postcards are coming out, the reminder to vote for the referendum. I am amazed at the lack of information on this one as compared to the previous one which had pictures, way more
information. This one stuck a QR code on there. And we all know we had the QR code discussion about the survey for the um the rec center. There's people that are not going to use that QR code. And that's supposedly where the meeting dates are hidden in that QR code. I'm
just saying. And you know how much these things cost? And they're bigger than this one. These go for like 10 12 grand. So to send to spend that kind of money and not give out adequate information really boggles my mind. Did you mention it to them?
We will mention they don't call special meetings for me. Okay. Um, now the Rex sent a survey. Just How many did you get? 1860 something and counting. How many? 1860. Oh, that's good. Okay.
Something and counting. I was just hoping it wasn't like 20 or 30, you know, that kind of thing. You got a good amount. Okay. Thank you. Any other comments this evening? May I speak from my seat, please? I have a loud voice. What? I can't hear you.
Can't hear me. I'll talk. It's all kid. I'm only kidding. I I am requesting at least another handicap parking spot. I thought I left my house early enough, but I had to walk
quite a distance. So, I was late and I'm sorry I was late. But if you could have at least two more handicapped parking spots, we will definitely look into You mean here at this building? Okay, we'll look into it. That's That's an That's an easy fix, Pat. Easy fix.
on the side of the building. It's a shame, Pat. I can I Pat, don't worry. It's an easy fix. It's an easy fix. Not a problem. Thanks, Pat. Thank you. Thank you, Mr. Bender.
Barry Bender somewhere in Lacy Township. This is in regard to the first thing we talked about tonight. South Orange has an ordinance about uh when you have a a public demonstration. Um I'm just going to tell you about the
situation that happened there though because it can cause trouble. Um they had been meeting and I was there u on the corner I forget South Orange. I forget where it's in South Orange and uh a rally for Gaza.
And at this one that I was at, a guy pulled up in a jeep. I'll just say he had a mental problem. Let's just put it that way. Was smashing thing inside his jeep. They were flying out the window. He came out of the thing and was confronting people. Um and u the
woman sitting next to me, he got right in her face. She was the only black woman there. Got right in her face and myself and another gentleman stepped in and they took care of him. And the police, someone called the police, the police came and she mentioned uh my friend mentioned that she had videoed
the entire thing from him getting there and she gave the video uh to the police and said, you know, if you need to get in touch with me, please get in touch with me. Uh what happened 3 days later, she was issued a summon for holding a a
demonstration without a permit. Yeah, I I won't go any further than that. Uh, but it can get sticky. But again, if you want to look at one, South Orange has one. Um, I would hope that it would be used for the proper purposes as
opposed to the purposes that I feel it's being used for in South Orange. I'll leave it at that. Thank you very much. Thank you, Mr. B. Anyone else this evening? Yes, sir. Oh, you like it? Thank you.
I'm modeling it tonight. We can thank um Good evening, Lacy Citizens. Hold on. I think I'm going to have to move this up a little bit. You can move it closer to you on the side of it if you want. Just put it that way today when we
Yeah, then you can [Music] That's a little bit better. Okay. So, good evening um township committee members and Lacy citizens and people out in TV land. Um couple of different
things. First of all, I'd like to thank our school board president for our new logo and our t-shirts that we have now. um because she made a big deal that we used the logo to to do the candidates forum uh that we're having at the
library on October 22nd at 7 p.m. And she said we could not use the logo. This caused us to come up with our own logo and also we're using it now on our website and everything else. So, you know, thank you Miss Clauss. You inspired us to move onward and upward.
Okay. So, um, I just want you to know as far as the smoking ban goes that you're talking about, um, I've never smoked in my life, but I believe in individual freedoms over the collective. And I think that, uh, there's so much
restrictions going on in our country right now on so many rights and so many issues that, you know, and the outside you want to, you know, prevent people from smoking. I think that that's just I think it's crazy.
That's my personal opinion. And if people want to smoke marijuana or whatever, they I'm not, you know, I'm not in favor of marijuana. I mean, when I go down to the casinos in Atlantic City, I have to smell them smoking marijuana in the casinos. I don't appreciate it, but that's the law. It's
allowed here in New Jersey. And um so my feeling is people want to smoke. They know that they could possibly get, you know, in inma or cancer. That's the right. Um, is it the right of the kids that are in the park and the soccer moms and the people practicing?
The kids don't have Tony's talking about HR. That's people over 18. But it's outside, sir. I mean, I'm sorry. It's not like we're in a closed. Not surprisingly, you and I will disagree. So, well, we can disagree. I mean, I go down to the casinos and people smoke in the casinos. Children in there.
Well, there are children in there. Well, they're not on the casino floor. They are Sarah because people come there with their families but that's beyond the story. Okay. So um I want to discuss the referendum and the illogical thinking of those that are
supporting it. First of all, we have a lack of trust. If we have a government body that we don't trust, how could we ever believe anything that they tell us? And we have already had a bad history
with the solar panel fiasco. They overbonded because they trusted their architect who we have an architect who was involved with this. And the school district overbonded by $ 8.2 million that we are still paying the interest on
through 2029. I'm sorry. This school board has a bad history and you have to take all of this into account. The other thing is that there's no vendor cost estimates to back up any of these repairs. And this was a huge
criticism that they got after the last referendum because other school districts did do this. And we were lied to. We were told they couldn't do this. That's not true. Okay. So, um there's Why wouldn't you want to have the vendors cost estimates? It's too late
now. Obviously, you can't put a referendum out and then get cost estimates. I mean, it just you just can't do that. That should have been done beforehand. Again, there's the way that they are doing this. They're setting themselves up for possible
failure. Um, also the school district claims that all of their financial woes are tied to the state of New Jersey, but they want us to get in bed with the state of New Jersey for a 20-year bond
proposal that they say we may get 11 million from. And I there's no guarantees. And you know what? The state is the one that screwed Lacy Township out of millions of dollars in state aid over the last seven years.
So why would you want to go into bed with the state of New Jersey when they have hurt you? And we have a history of this. This is a fact. I'm sorry. The supporters of the referendum use that old tired saying, "It's all about the
kids." But this isn't about the kids. It's actually about everyone's wallets. And if it truly was about the kids, the state of affairs at the Lacy Township School District would not be as it is.
The truth hurts, but someone must say it. The paraphernalia that the school board has been putting out promoting the referendum is technically not allowed by state court rulings. Any information that the school board puts out has to be
totally contentneutral to state facts and not try to promote the video that they show using probably some of the worst pictures that they've ever collected for some of their repair problems. And then they forgot to
mention what the actual real cost will be to the taxpayers of Hold on a second for M. Just one second. I want to interrupt you. Last month you were up for 18 minutes. Two weeks ago, you were up for 14 minutes. I'm going to ask you to sit down and then you can come back up again. Okay.
After somebody else speaks, if somebody else wants to speak, we got to be fair about it. Okay. Is there anybody else out here that'd like to speak this evening? No. Okay. Including all the interest after payoff, the 20-year bond. The video also
fails to tell the taxpayers that if the referendum fails that they will be getting $111 tax reduction from their school taxes. The video and flyers are base biased which break the New Jersey content neutrality court ruling. It
seems our school board fragrantly just does things whether it's legal or not. In essence, the New Jersey court ruling establishments a government neutrality. I could go on about that here, but you're limiting my time, so I want to move on to the next thing. I also want to be clear with the public
of why we are in this predicament. The school board majority made a tactical decision years ago when they negotiated employment contracts that they knew they could not afford. They intentionally did this. They intentionally decided to let the buildings go into disrepair. Now all
of a sudden it's become a big crisis, a crisis they made. You also notice the lack of accountability on the part of the majority of the school board. It's always someone else's fault, but in reality it's their fault. They have failed the taxpayers of Lacy Township and now they want us to bail them out.
Please vote no. Yes, there are some valid repairs that need to be made, but not this way. Every single penny needs to be prudently spent and accounted for. And with these people in charge, we're not going to get that. They spent somewhere to the tune of $133,000 on
their first failed ballot referendum, and they're spending another 44,000 plus on this one. Funny how they have the money to do this but no money for busing. The township of Lacy citizens need to wake up already. Please, for the life of
me, use logic, not emotion, especially when dealing with fiscal matters. When emotion takes over, all logic goes out the door. And that's when some of the worst decisions are ever made. Now, the YMCA discussion, um, I found out that if
they were to come here under the deal that we're trying to work out, and this is the way it is with other towns, um, that if they don't make their budgetary requirements that it falls on the township to have to make up the difference for that, and the taxpayers would then get roped in with this. Um,
as I've stated publicly before, I don't really have an opinion whether it comes here or not, as long as it doesn't increase our expenses. And I warned the township committee when you did not go out and speak against the two 10% tax increases that if you had any plans for
things for the future, that the school was eating up all of the available tax dollars that you could possibly take. And nobody spoke up about it. So, you've kind of like made your bed and now you're going to have to lay in it as they say. A question I have
that's been online is about the pilot program housing projects that we have been that have been done here in Lacy Township. The cornerstone I was told approximately pays $90,000 a year with the new addition with nothing going to the schools. Whoopde-doo. So, if one and
a half children or three children that live in that big apartment complex go to our schools, that wouldn't even cover the cost of their education. But the sad part is none of that money goes to the schools. The property that this project is sitting on was owned by Lacy Township. So we gave them the property. They got a
sweetheart deal with these grants through the pilot program. The developer is getting extra funds from the state. And the taxpayers of Lacy are held holding the bag. Let me let me ask one thing of you, Rich. One thing I'm not done yet. Okay. Okay. One one thing. You can ask me if you want. No, I want I want to interject here.
Okay. Because this is a conversation. You've had dictation here for about 30 straight minutes in the last few meetings. Our our housing requirement comes from Trenton. I understand that is from Democrats. They don't like single family homes. They don't like our
planning or our zoning board. If you want more housing over there and everywhere in every town, vote Democrat. That's what they do. And I understand that. And if you had let me finish before you brought your comment, I bring that up in my comments. I understand the law. I just don't
understand the way that we are going about it. I don't understand why we're only allowing them to pay $90,000. I'd love to know what the actual assessment of that property is and why all of us are paying. That's not right. It's not fair. And we have now a huge tax. It isn't.
Yes. So, there is a new mechanism in the law related to pilot programs. So, they are taxed a little differently. So the land is actually normal taxation just like our land is here. So they will pay normal taxation and that portion that belongs to the school goes to the school
for the the land the land underneath the building. Then the pilot is only on the improvement value of those structures which is the bulk don't get me wrong. So the school is getting a small portion of of um taxes because of the land being taxed. So I don't you know I just want
the law has changed a little bit. Yes. Phase three is getting that right. But again, as I'm saying, it's you have to look at it. Everything with me is about dollars and cents. I'm a money person, okay? And I'm looking at the people that are living in our town
and people that are talking to me and they are talking to me in huge droves now, especially this latest tax bill. Nobody's happy about it. Has anybody come up to you and say, "I'm thrilled about the big tax increase that we just got?" No.
Nobody's ever come up to me and said they're thrilled about anything about any tax increase. Right. As a matter of fact, I think the last meeting I said I was disappointed, you know. Yeah. Well, yeah. No, nobody's going to Let me just um uh jump in on I mean from
I did it last meeting. I I've been complaining about our the the COA all our COA stuff for a long time. time I said it last meeting I said it's a um you know we're tell them what stands for Steve affordable housing the and so we're it's it's um you know forced on us by the
state we are just this I said it last meeting um we we negotiated down our next round of affordable housing units we got it down to almost zero and now we're being sued by the fair share
committee uh housing be for our for because they're saying we we're not calculating our number right and we owe them more west of the Parkway. Yes. So we we're well aware of the we're well aware of the tax impact on on the township. We're well aware of who's
responsible for paying um paying the um you know paying into the COA funds and where the money comes from. Um it's it's like I said, we're aware of it and we we do what we can um to to uh do what's best for Lacy Township. But why couldn't it be done under a different premise? I
mean, I understand you have to have the affordable housing, but I mean, if you're going to make a deal where you're giving the developer the land, right, okay, to use it as our land, the people of Lacy Townships. Um, so why couldn't they pay more in taxation?
Because all the entire um affordable housing uh rules are are all through they're all through the state. the the the financing comes from the state. What we're allowed to charge in taxes or pilot comes from the state. We have very little control over it.
But what about if you didn't use that program? I mean, you have to have affordable housing, right? You have to doesn't have to be under that particular program. It could be a developer come in to get the money in the states because there's a point system and an application process that they have to meet. So
they're not going to be able to go out to a regular market like a bank. Yeah. To get the money because again it's an affordable property. So nobody's going to take the risk on it. Whereas the state of New Jersey takes the risk on it because it probably make it good bond. Right. You know, so that's the
problem uh um with trying to do that. And we as a town can't afford to build these obligations because it right now we've addressed it. There are two separate things. It's like what's zoned in the future and what we have to do as to in terms of uh the fair share
telling us what we have to do and we've planned as best we can going forward um in terms of meeting our affordable obligations for the foresee foreseeable future. So what's interesting about this is that there seems to be no concern by the
state, okay, that if you're going to put these housing projects in about all the children that are going to be in there and who is going to pay to educate them. Now this is an area where I believe government bodies should be lobbying to say if you want us to do this and I
understand the premise of why they want that, but you know, you can't expect everyone to have to take on the burden. It just isn't right. And especially as taxes are going higher and higher, we need we as the township aren't expecting it. We have no choice. This is what we're
being how many you can make as age restricted senior only. We've met our maximum on making uh like 100 unit apartment complex. We're at our maximum with senior only um you know affordable
housing. And and the one thing I mean Steve's got even longer time on the planning board than I do and I got a lot of years. I mean between me and Steve and Tim we got a lot of time on these land use boards.
Everything you're bringing forward I think we all we're all in agreement with and I've I've I've said it right from the beginning. Sometimes the job up here is making the best out of a crappy situation. And that's about the easiest way you could put it because
as far as this committee, everybody is committed to trying to reduce the impact it has on this town. We fight it. Uh I know you uh you Regina, a few other people see a lot what's going on
in the state itself. that's even gets into the committee sometimes and thank God some of it don't come out of it because the idea is that there you you nailed it right on the head people at the state really don't care sometimes we we don't think they care about Lacy Township at all so even with these new
housing requirements that uh especially Steve and Veronica worked on very hard to get the numbers down through 2035 uh has been tremendous and everything was going good. And about a week before it was all said and done, we get sued,
right? Um the first uh phase of this, I guess the first 10 years, what was the number up around 1,200 somewhere around there? This town worked hard to get it down to uh 400 and some. So, the town's been
working hard with it. And I've said right from the get-go when I'm talking to people, we are getting it from both ends because this the school I look at number one, here's the state, they're cutting aid. And here's the state making us put in
high density dwellings, right? What comes with highdensity dwellings? Kids. Kids. So now you want us to have more kids and less money. Correct. So basically we have a state and we're all quite aware of it and this
is one area I would say everybody's got to agree with you that we're getting it from both sides because we fight we talk to them. The shame of it is we are the minority. I I do have a question though. Yeah, Veronica, you may know this or Steve may
know this. Is that number that you work on, is that based on the the number of people that you have living in your community or is it on the square mile of the community? It's based on the square footage and what they consider vacant land. So
again, we're arguing over um so that there's property across the street from the power plant for one of the examples, okay, that they feel should be part of our calculation to increase that number of housing. Well, that has been deemed by the state of New Jersey as
environmentally sensitive land, PA5. We went through that back when we were doing our town center, but yet this other side, whoever is doing the affordable housing, is insistent we put it in there. But the D says you can't build on it. It's outside the sewer service extension act. So you can't put sewers there. So what are you doing now?
They're arguing over tracks of land west of the parkway with us. There's no public water. There's no public sewer. And the piler is protected. Veronica and I went through it block by block to take out what they have. And the data that they're using, which is even more frustrating, is data from
2009 on vacant land. Well, so now you have to go through it and say Spark Car Wash, for example. Mhm. That's on the list. It's vacant land. Well, it's not vacant land. It's tedious and it's timeconuming. It's a waste of my time that they don't even give you accurate dat.
Yeah. And they put in the property between Home Depot conservation was advanced auto and Home Depot is is their conservation land or the tree land. They have that in there as being usable. So we had to take it all out. It's very frustrating. Yes, it is very frustrating. And we've had one party rule in Trenton
for a while. And there I'm I'm going to tell you that elections have consequences. I know, but you know what? If we really don't win at least two of the three bodies, we're not going anywhere. I mean, let's be honest. I mean, Senator Connors will tell you he
knows that the game. It's like if we don't at least have two, even if we were to get a new governor, which I believe we're going to, the fact of the matter, well, we are going to get a new governor. You know what I'm talking about. But, I mean, it's like the issue is, you know, he's going to be controlled by two bodies, legislative
bodies that are going to be pulling the strings. Unfortunately, not if they get a majority and that governor will whoever it is will appoint two people to the state supreme court and possibly overturn this coalition affordable housing if we got majority. So that could be something.
Yes, it could be. And by the way, I want to thank you for this. No problem. Really appreciate it for I'm glad you're happy. Thank you so much. You're welcome. I hope you got it used. It was very reasonable, Steve. I think it's an antique. No, it's not an antique at all.
Mr. Senza, I just happened to have these on my clipboard. Oh, it just happened. 2008. I I couldn't understand why the roof project at Lenoka was scrapped and then I remembered it was on this
referendum. The one that says in black and white here at no increase to you now costs us about a million a year. That's the no no increase. It's pathetic. Mr. Laorray, these are your souvenirs. Your name is on
reading material. All right. Any other comments this evening? Seeing none, motion to close the floor. I'll close. A second. Second. All in favor? I have a resolution. Thank you, Bob. Resolution 2025-282
resolution of the township of Lacy County of Ocean State of New Jersey authorizing the convening of an executive session in accordance with the open public meetings act to discuss matters of personnel and contractual matters. Move it. Second. Mr. Kennage. Yes. Mr. Le. Mr. La. Yes. Mayor. Yes. Motion to move it. All
favor. I. No further business.